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[Music]
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[Music]
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Gretchen thank you so much for speaking
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with knowledge and warten today I'm so
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happy to be here as part of the
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happiness project that led to your book
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of the same name you spent 12 months
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exploring your own happiness
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what made you decide to embark on that
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Adventure well it was this very
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inconspicuous moment of my life I was
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stuck on a city bus in the pouring rain
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and I didn't have anything to distract
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myself with and I looked out the window
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and
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thought what do I want from Life anyway
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I thought I want to be happy but I
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realized I didn't spend any time
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thinking about whether I was happy or
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how I could be happier and in a Flash I
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thought I should have a Happiness
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Project and I saw I was going to have
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rules and charts and lists I went out to
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the library the next day and got this
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huge Stu a book about happiness and
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started researching I wanted to find out
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what are the things that everybody said
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you should do to be happier and if I
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tried them could I actually make myself
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happier and that's how I got the idea to
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do the Happiness Project how did you
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deal with skepticism about the project
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from others um from your husband to
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people at cocktail parties well it's
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funny I got a lot of push back um some
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people argue Ed that I was so ordinary
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and boring that no one would be
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interested in what I had to say other
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people argued that I was so
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idiosyncratic that no one would ever be
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able to identify with me um some people
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denied that happiness exists at all um
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my husband was you know was bracing
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himself for what he could tell was going
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to be this giant uh allc consuming
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project he's sort of a martyr to
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happiness I would say um but it was
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actually very helpful because whenever
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people would argue against me it really
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helped me clarify
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what I thought why did I think it was
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important to work on happiness or why
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did I think that happiness even existed
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or why did I think that what I
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experienced in trying to be happier
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would be helpful to anyone else why did
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I think that that anyone else would be
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interested in the kind of things that I
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undertook for my own happiness project
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so it was actually very helpful although
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I did often respond with a lot of
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belligerence um to hear this to get that
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opposition and you were pretty happy to
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start with um was it worthwhile to make
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yourself even happier yeah you know and
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I think that that is one of the reasons
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that a lot of people identify with me
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because most people say that they're
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pretty happy or very happy all around
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the world most people say that and I was
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pretty happy when I started I was struck
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by how possible it was even for someone
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who was pretty happy to make myself
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happier by just doing very ordinary
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manageable simple things that didn't
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take a lot of time energy or money um
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there was really a lot of loow hanging
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fruit things that once I thought about
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it I I could do pretty easily that added
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a lot to my happiness um just things
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like starting a children's literature
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reading group or going to bed on time um
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very small things ended up having a very
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powerful effect your sister actually
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teased you that you approaching the
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question of happiness in such a dogged
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systematic way what was your approach so
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what I did is I divided the elements of
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happiness that I felt like I needed to
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work on for my happiness project into
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into 12 into 11 categories and um
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and these 11 elements things like
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friendship marriage
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Parenthood uh
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Leisure um H spirituality and then and
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gave and did each it spent a month
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focusing on each oneth so I started in
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January went to December and each month
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I would uh turn my attention to this new
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element and I always had you know three
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four five very concrete resolutions that
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I was going to follow that I thought
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would help me achieve more happiness in
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that element so for example I started
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with energy cuz I thought well if I have
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more energy everything else will be
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easier and so for energy I focused on
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things like sleeping getting exercise
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getting rid of clutter because it turns
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out that clutter and nagging tasks
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really drain your energy um and then
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each month I would add a new set of
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resolutions so by the end of the year I
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was following all the resolutions all
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the time and it was great it really did
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add a lot to my happiness but it was
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surprisingly difficult to break it down
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into those elements it was it's a very
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productive thing to to try to do because
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happiness can seem all tangled together
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it's very abstract everything's
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interlocked with everything else and by
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teasing it apart like that I think it
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really clarified my thinking in March
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you looked at um aiming higher in your
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work you reported that happy people work
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more hours each week and they work more
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in their free time too I think that may
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seem like a paradox to some uh how can
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that be well I think one of the reasons
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people are happy is if they like their
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work and so if you like your work you're
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more inclined to work on it um and I
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always think that a great sign of a
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person who's happy at work is Talking
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Shop and people who love their work love
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to talk shop and and a lot of times
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people think that that's a negative that
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oh you should you know you shouldn't be
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talking shop all the time but the desire
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to talk Shop shows that you're really
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you're really very satisfied and you're
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really still engaged and even in your
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free time you want to talk about it and
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that's one of the things when I switched
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from law to writing when I was in law I
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never wanted to talk shop and now I'm in
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writing I want to talk shop all the time
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it's my favorite subject to talk about
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writing or anything related to writing
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or publishing or books um and so I think
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have people bring that enthusiasm with
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them and also you know when we're
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unhappy it's very easy to become
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self-focused you're thinking you become
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isolated and defensive and you're
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preoccupied with your own problems
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because you're unhappy and when you're
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happy you can turn outward you have a
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more more emotional wherewithal to think
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about other things so I think happy
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people naturally find it easier to focus
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on things outside themselves like work
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or like helping other people happy
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people are also more altruistic they
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volunteer more time and give away more
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money and part of that is because they
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feel like they have the Reserves so that
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they can afford to turn outward and to
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think about other people and other
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people's problems so tell us a little
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bit about how you made those resolutions
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and and how you um went through the
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process of of sticking to them or even
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seeing if they validating them I guess
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and finding out are were those the right
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resolutions to make well um to to do my
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resolutions I was very inspired by
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Benjamin Franklin who was one of the
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patron saints of a Happiness Project
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because he was you know this
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extraordinarily productive genius um and
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he had this this chart that he did with
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these 13 virtues that he wanted to
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cultivate and they're very Founding
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Father kind of Virtues like Temperance
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and frugality and um and so he would
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write it down and every day he would
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check off whether he had observed that
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virtue or not so I thought that seemed
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like a good a good system I wanted some
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way to hold myself accountable and also
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to keep myself reminding myself of what
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my resolutions were so I have a a
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resolutions chart and I write down all
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my resolutions and every day at night I
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check off whether or not I observe that
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resolution and then sometimes there's
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not an occasion for a resolution to be
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kept so then I just leave it blank like
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no gossip maybe I didn't have an
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occasion of Gossip so it wasn't that I
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gossiped or didn't gossip I just well
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you know spent the day alone or whatever
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um and and so and this is a very I found
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this was a really helpful system first
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of all because it held myself
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accountable and I could see whether I
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was making progress and if I was
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consistently not making progress then I
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would know it wasn't working it also
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kept them uppermost in my mind because
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sometimes with a resolution and I'm sure
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we've all experienced this you make a
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New Year's resolution or whatever and
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then you just sort of forget about it
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you know and every once in a while
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you're like oh yeah I was going to try
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to go to that yoga class but you forget
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so this kept them very awake awake in my
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mind and also it it it helped me reward
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myself because I think part of when you
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do something right you want to feel like
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you're giving yourself a gold star and
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I'm a total junkie for gold stars and so
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feeling like oh I am really making
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progress I really am holding myself
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accountable and I'm making that kind of
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I'm having that that making that kind of
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forward progress is very uh reinforcing
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and so those are really helpful things
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about the resolution
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chards in your next book happier at home
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you look at how to make a home a happier
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place what made you embark on this
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particular Happiness Project well again
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like with all my books there's sort of
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this crazy moment of epiphany when a
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lightning bolt comes out of the out of
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the sky and hits me on the head and this
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I mean I can say this for all of my
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books um it's happened and this time I
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was standing in my own kitchen unloading
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the dishwasher and my husband was in the
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Next Room with watching golf on
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television and my daughters were in
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there playing
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restaurant and I was hit by a wave of
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homesickness this intense wave of
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homesickness like I felt the way I did
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when I went away to summer camp for the
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first time which was such a puzzling
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feeling because why was I feeling
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homesick if I was just standing in the
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middle of my own kitchen and I realized
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it was almost as if I had flashed
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forward 30 years and from the future was
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looking back
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with yearning at what I have right now
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right here and that got me to focus for
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the first time on home because with the
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Happiness Project I'd been doing all
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this research and writing and I just you
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know divided my happiness into these
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elements but somehow I had never focused
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on this idea of home and the minute I I
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focused on it because of this feeling of
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homesickness I became overwhelmed with
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with thinking well this is really the
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foundations for me and I think for so
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many
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people so many of the essential elements
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of Happiness come together in home and I
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and I really wanted to go deeper into
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this area and understand it better like
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what is what is wrapped up in our idea
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of home and because people you could be
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single you could be married you could be
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young you could be old you can be in so
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many different life circumstances but
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this is something that is practically
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Universal is this idea of home and how
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could you how could you be happier at
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home um because there's this I'm a big
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Lor angles Wilder fan I love children
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literature and this is this wonderful
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line in one of the books where Carrie
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there Carrie is doesn't want to go home
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because she's in trouble and Laura's in
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trouble and the writer observes there is
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no happiness anywhere for someone who
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dreads to go home and I thought well how
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can I make my home as happy as it can be
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and and so it was just this delightful
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process of thinking how can I make my
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experience of Home
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happier you know that there are many
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happiness paradoxes one for example is
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accomplish more by working less or being
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very accessible sometimes makes it
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harder to connect with people can you
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talk a little bit about how you you came
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to one or two of these um
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paradoxes you know I love aphorisms um
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I'm I love like the great essays of the
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past where everybody could say something
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very concisely so I'm always and and and
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paradox paradox is particularly I think
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really the the unpredictability of them
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helps people think and and and makes
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them more fun to to puzzle through and
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one of my favorite ones and this is
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something that I can get away with
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because I'm not a scientist a scientist
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could never use this Paradox is um
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happiness doesn't always make you feel
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happy and of course the scientists
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couldn't say that because how could
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happiness not make you feel happy how
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can subjective well-being that make you
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feel subjectively well-being um but but
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for someone like me I can say that
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because I think we've all had the
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experience where we do something that we
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know makes us happy but at the same time
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doesn't make us happy for instance I am
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a person who is very afraid to drive I
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grew up driving CU I grew up in Kansas
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City Missouri and I've driven many times
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in my life um but now I live in New York
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City and I could basically quit
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driving
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and for many years I basically didn't
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drive and it eventually started to weigh
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on my mind and I started feeling like
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I'm really becoming very afraid to drive
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I'm not driving and it's making me feel
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bad and feel constrained and so I took
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driving lessons to make myself feel more
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confident and now I drive once a week
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and I do not like driving I don't look
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forward to it I'm fine once I'm driving
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but I really do not look forward to it
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so in a way driving doesn't make me
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happy but on the other hand driving does
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make me happy and so that makes me think
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about when we're talking about sort of
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feeling happiness or not you identify
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three happiness leeches uh tell tell us
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about those yes well the three happiness
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leeches are the
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grouches The Slackers and the
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jerks so the Grouch are the people that
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are persistently negative that always
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see the dark side uh that that um are
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pessimistic um and I think that's the
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most common kind of Happiness leech then
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there are the Slackers The Slackers are
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the people that just don't pull their
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weight and they make people unhappy
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because people feel like it's not fair
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or you know they can't get their own
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work done because somebody else is
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saying can you give me a hand can I have
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just a minute can you answer just one
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more question and those are the stalkers
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the worst the grouches are more common
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but I think more destructive happiness
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is the jerk and the jerk is the PE those
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are the people who are undermining who
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take credit for other people's work who
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are backstabbing who are cruel who um
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gossip in an unkind way who um tease in
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a mean way um and these are the people
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that really spread intense unhappiness
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um and so uh it's kind of helpful to to
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to have these categories in mind because
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you can say well someone when I'm around
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somebody I seem to feel unhappy
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sometimes you don't even really
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understand why and when you say to
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yourself okay Grouch slacker or jerk
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then kind of clarifies the
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situation um how how would you recommend
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that others start their own happiness
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projects there's no wrong way to do a
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Happiness Project I think the the thing
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to do if people want to start their own
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Happiness Project is to pick a few
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things but they need to be concrete and
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manageable and by concrete um something
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that you can actually measure and that
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you know whether you've done it or not
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so sometimes people will will make a
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resolution like I want to get more fun
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out of life
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or I want to have more quality time with
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my
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family well I want to be more optimistic
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I mean those are very abstract it's hard
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to know how if you're getting more fun
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out of life it's hard to know if you're
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having more quality time with your
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family like what does that mean dayto
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day how do you measure it so think to
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yourself like what would it mean if I
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got more fun out of life if I got more
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fun out of life I would go to the park
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once a week with my dog and throw a
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frisbee or I would sign up for a
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painting class or I would read for fun
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for an hour every day after work you
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know think what would give you more fun
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out of life and then actually in a in a
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measurable way that you can see on your
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schedule and check off a box whether you
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did it or not same thing with quality
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time with your family one thing we just
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started doing in our family which is so
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fun is we have game time which is every
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Saturday afternoon we play games for an
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hour and drink cocoa and you know it's a
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very simple thing my seven-year-old is
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the complete enforcer and marches around
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the house until we all have game time um
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but it's but it's really nice and it's
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like I know that I'm going to have an
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hour sitting and playing a board game
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with my family and for me that's a
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that's a kind of quality time so when
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it's very measurable like that it's
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easier to stick to it um I especially
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think it's helpful to start with your
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body because that may sound very basic
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but so many people are chronically sleep
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deprived and so many people just don't
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get any exercise and when you don't get
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any exercise you don't get enough sleep
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it's hard to just have the energy to get
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through life it's you feel irritable you
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feel exhausted it's you feel indecisive
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you get sick more easily so if you're
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thinking like where should I start I
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don't know where to start going to sleep
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on time and getting a 15 or 20 minute
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walk in at least even if you can't do
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anything more is a great place to start
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and from Beyond that whatever it is you
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want to work on in your life make it
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concrete and manageable that's wonderful
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advice thanks so much Gretchen thank
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you
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[Music]
