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I'm Adam Grant I'm here with Ariana
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Huffington author of the number one New
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York Times bestselling book Thrive
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Ariana welcome thank you Adam great to
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be with you talk to me about how you
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came to this idea you've obviously been
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running the Huffington Post for quite a
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while what what made you think about
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redefining success well it was actually
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a rude awakening a personal wakeup call
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S years ago when I collapsed from
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exhaustion burnout sleep deprivation and
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broke my cheekbone on the way down got
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four stitches on my right eye and it
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started me on this journey of asking
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myself the big questions that we stop
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asking ourselves when we leave College
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like what is a good life what is
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success and I realized especially when I
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looked around at um colleagues and
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friends and the World At Large that we
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had Shrunk the definition of success
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down to two metrics money and power and
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that we left out what I now call the
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third metric which includes our
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well-being our wisdom our capacity to
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wander and bring joy into our lives and
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our capacity to give and without these
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four pillars life is really reduced to
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our to-do list and we continue to
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neglect uh our own self and our own
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health and well-being how is writing the
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book and thinking more about well-being
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wisdom Wonder giving affected your own
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life you know it's
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been it's been really an Incredible Gift
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because I feel that you know how they
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say you teach what you need to
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learn I feel that because I've kind of
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delved into these ideas into the science
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behind the importance of sleep and
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slowing down and uh how these things are
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connected with our creativity and
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productivity because I've delved into
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all the
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details I have kind of begun to
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incorporate them in my life much more
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than I would have done otherwise and as
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I'm on book two and I keep speaking
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about them I feel that I'm also
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reminding myself every day so I I'm very
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blessed
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that that this book which I was not
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intending to write you know Adam you and
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I share a fabulous literary agent
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Richard Pine and I had told Richard that
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I will never write another book this is
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my 14th book it's the surprise baby I
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never thought I was going to have but it
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has been very different and it has been
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very strengthening of my own commitment
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to live my life differently what are the
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biggest changes that you've made to your
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daily habits and practices so
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um the biggest first change that I made
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was sleep
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and at the end of each section of the
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book I have three little baby steps that
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I recommend and they mirror very much
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the baby steps that I took the first one
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was I began taking getting 30 minutes
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more sleep a night than I was getting
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before until gradually I got from four
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to 5 hours which is what I was getting
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before I collapsed to 7 to8 hours which
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is what I'm getting now and the result
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has been transformational and all the
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science now um demonstrates
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unequivocally that uh when we actually
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get enough sleep everything is better um
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our health is better our um mental
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capacity and Clarity are better um our
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joy and at life and our ability to live
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life without reacting at every bad thing
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that happens and in everybody's life
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there are things that happen every day
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that we wish had not happened so how we
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react to them very much determines the
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quality of our life and then I introd I
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mean I I used to meditate on and off H
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ever since I was 13 years old but I
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actually introduced a daily practice
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which started by being five minutes and
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is now at least half an hour H but I got
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to half an hour again gradually by by
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experiencing the rewards of those 5
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minutes
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and in the book I've included you know
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meditation steps that people can take as
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well as believe it or not apps that they
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can use to help them get
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started and then some form of movement
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and yoga exercise even when I'm
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traveling you know in my hotel room just
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10 minutes the importance of that the
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importance of not getting stuck
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especially those of us who have jobs
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that you could spend your whole life
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doing from your desk
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and um
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then
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giving in small daily ways has been
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really important leaving aside you know
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what we give to charity or volunteering
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time
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just one of the first steps I recommend
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and I practice myself is to make
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personal connections with people that
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otherwise we might take for granted you
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know the checkout clerk the barista in
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the coffee shop the cleaning crew and
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the difference it makes when we actually
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connect with people on an individual
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level and how present it makes us be so
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these are obviously individual changes
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but you've also been rethinking a little
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bit of how you run the Huffington Post
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in light of this perspective I know
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you've you've introduced two nap pods
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are there other changes that you've been
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especially passionate about yes we we
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introduced to nap rooms meditation
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classes yoga classes breathing classes
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healthy free snacks but one of the
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recent changes we made that has been
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very significant has been making it
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clear that no employee is expected to be
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on work email after hours so that when
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they are off they're off I mean we're at
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24/7 media operations so they're always
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people on but not the same people and
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people just tell us every day what a
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difference it's made how they can really
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undistracted be with themselves their
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families their loved ones and and return
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to work recharged because you know we
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don't pay people for their stamina we
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pay them for their judgment and
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increasingly H for their ideas their
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creativity this is what's the lightning
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in the
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bottle you so you mentioned judgment
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which is a big part of your pillar of
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wisdom what are some of the steps that
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you're recommending to become wiser
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so first of all starting with the the
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the recognition that we all have wisdom
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in us that is not something that we have
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to get from books or cram into us it's
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already there H every
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religion and every philosopher you know
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talks about that in different language
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you know it's basically the kingdom of
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God is within um Archimedes said give me
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a place to stand and I can move the
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world so when we tap into that Center of
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wisdom strength
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peace that's where our capacity for wise
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decisions H for tapping into our
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intuition comes from and it's like a
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muscle the more we visit that part of
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ourselves the more we exercise that
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muscle and the more likely we are to be
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able to tap into it again and again with
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ease that's one of the one of the things
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I enjoyed most in reading the book was
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uh your personal narrative as really I
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guess on a journey to try to figure out
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how you can take these ideas seriously
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and Implement them and I know that your
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family played a very big role in that um
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what what effect did your mother have on
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your thinking about Thrive well my
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mother had the biggest impact because
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she naturally lived a third metric life
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she naturally sort of thrived um long
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before I had incorporate these ideas in
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my life and she constantly would tell my
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sister Agapi and me don't miss the
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moment and
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she she was very clear that that's how
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you really were Fully Alive and that's
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why she uphor
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multitasking long before modern science
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has confirmed that multitasking does not
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really exist it's really task switching
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and it's the most stressful thing we can
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can do and uh she also she would have
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loved you Adam because she was a natural
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giver and um I remember once when a lady
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admired a little necklace she was
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wearing and my mother said here take it
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and the lady surprised said what can I
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give you in return and my mother said
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it's not a trade darling it's an
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offering and uh she
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also could not have an impersonal
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relationship with anyone
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um she really connected with people and
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um if the FedEx man would come to
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deliver a Puget my mother would say oh
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come sit down I just baked something and
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so she lived in that sense of of being
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fully connected with people in a deeper
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way than than we are which most of the
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time is pretty shallow and
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often our connection to human beings
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takes second place to our connection to
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our smartphone
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and this is something that you've not
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just been hearing is influential on the
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family side but also professionally CEOs
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are are making Lifestyle Changes what
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are some of the biggest surprises that
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you've come across well yes 2013 was an
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amazing year because we had CEOs one
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after another coming out not as being
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gay but as being
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meditators Ray Dalo the SE of
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Bridgewater Mark Ben of the CEO of
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Salesforce Mark bertolini the CEO of
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Etna etc etc so
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suddenly um what was regarded as kind of
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new AG flaky Californian has gone
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mainstream and people see the
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value of um quiet time reflection
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connecting with ourselves the value that
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they derive when it comes to their
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professional success and their
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accomplishments so these things are not
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separate we used to think that there was
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a tradeoff that you had to
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sacrifice um your professional success
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in order to achieve inner peace and now
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we see no not at all and the science is
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so conclusive I mean I love this time
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we're living in because it's the first
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time that modern science has so
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validated ancient wisdom in every
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respect including giving you know modern
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science has really validated everything
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that um philosophers and spiritual
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teachers have said about how H giving is
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a shortcut to happiness well now we have
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the data to prove
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it that raises a question that that I
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wondered about when I read the book
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which is we have these money and power
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metrics which are the old way of
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thinking about success you bring in
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well-being wisdom wonder and giving
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where does accomplishment fit as just an
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intrinsic sense of progress or
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achievement in in your view of of
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success well I think actually that the
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first two
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metrics when defined in a in a profound
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way are about accomplishment
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and um it can be accomplishment that
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also brings a lot of money in or
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influence or it can be accomplishment
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that gives a lot of inner
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satisfaction um so this the book is not
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against money and
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influence and whatever power really
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means in the modern world um it's
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against shrinking
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ourselves to defining our lives and our
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purpose
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in terms of these two metrics it's a
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question of what is in the foreground
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and what is in the background of our
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lives and often when people step off a
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career
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ladder because they were going to burn
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out or they had already burnt out they
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don't give up
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accomplishment um I I I quote actually a
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w on graduate
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who burnt out after she had her first B
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baby on her corporate job and left but
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went on to found a kindergarten co-found
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a synagogue H create a mom site so in
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the same way if you go to
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etsy.com there are a lot of people
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who've taken what they love their crafts
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their hobbies and turn them into a
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living so we need to sort of think
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accomplishment in a in a wider sense
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than just beginning our career here and
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climbing up the ladder until until we
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get to the corner office or SVP position
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or whatever it is that we determine is
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the
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ultimate well one note to close on I
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think at the very top of that ladder one
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of my favorite parts of the book was
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when you talk about eulogies and what's
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not in them and lighten us um yes
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because I I write a lot about death in
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the book not in a morbid way but because
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it's hard to really
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um prioritize
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what um you spend time on and what your
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life is about if you forget that we die
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and I quote The Onion headline that
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death rate Hold Steady at
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100% so um I write how um I I was at a
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friend's Memorial and listening to the
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eulogy while writing the book it dawn on
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me that our eulogist have really nothing
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to do with our LinkedIn
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profiles and that uh in
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fact our eulogies are about all the
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other things you never hear in a eulogy
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you know George was amazing he increased
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market share by oneir or he made SVP at
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35 it's all about how how we made people
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feel um small kindnesses lifelong
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passions what made us laugh it's all the
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things that when we get really really
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busy with our
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goals and we squeeze out of life you
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know what they call the exhaustion
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funnel when little by little all the
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things that nurture us that feed our
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soul are
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eliminated because we are so driven to
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achieve whatever that goal is and of
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course as soon as we reach
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it it will not be significant until we
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reach the next goal and so it becomes
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this endless postponement of being fully
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present and fully
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Alive thank you thank you so much
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[Music]
