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Tiffany Dufu on Achieving More by Doing Less

March 17, 2017 / 17:24

This episode features Tiffany Dufu discussing women's leadership, personal expectations, and the challenges of balancing work and family life. She shares her experiences with home control disease and the pressure of being a perfect mother.

Dufu recounts a specific incident involving her daughter missing a birthday party due to a lack of communication. This event highlights the ongoing struggle many women face in managing personal and professional responsibilities.

She emphasizes the importance of diversity in leadership roles and how women often feel overwhelmed by their responsibilities at home. Dufu reflects on her journey of learning to drop unrealistic expectations and the fear of asking for help.

Throughout the episode, she shares practical lessons learned from her experiences, including the need to prioritize and delegate tasks. Dufu's story aims to inspire other women to embrace imperfection and seek support in their lives.

The episode concludes with Dufu's hope for future generations of women to aspire to leadership roles without the burden of perfectionism.

TL;DR

Tiffany Dufu discusses balancing motherhood and leadership, sharing her journey of dropping unrealistic expectations and asking for help.

Episode

17:24
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a couple of months ago I got a call from
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my daughter school she's in the second
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grade it was about 3pm and she was
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crying uncontrollably at the end of the
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school day all of her friends had left
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for a birthday party that she knew
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nothing about now she was invited to the
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party it's just that it wasn't on my
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calendar it wasn't on my husband's
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calendar and so she didn't know about it
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and suffice it to say she was devastated
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Sam's story right well here's the thing
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this exact scenario had happened on more
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than one occasion and it gets worse I
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can anticipate that this exact scenario
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was going to happen there's something
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that I could do in order to prevent it
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from happening but on more than one
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occasion I haven't I have intentionally
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dropped the ball now before you start
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throwing tomatoes at me because I must
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be a very evil person or at least a very
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bad mom I would love to take you back in
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time to tell you how we got to this
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moment my name is Tiffany doufu my
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life's work is advancing women and girls
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that's pretty much why I'm on the planet
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so my life is very simple I know what's
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on my tombstone and I'm just kind of
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project managing my life backwards that
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is how I find meaning right that's the
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story that I choose to tell and for most
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of this journey I've been very focused
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on this one problem around women's
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advancement which has to do with women's
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leadership this is a study by McKinsey
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and Lehman basically you won't be
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surprised to know that even though women
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are half the population and half of
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entry-level employees by the time you
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get to the c-suite were at about
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nineteen percent and this is true for
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pretty much every sector of our society
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we're hovering about eighteen or
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nineteen percent these numbers haven't
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really changed for the past 20 years and
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I've been trying to figure out what are
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we going to do about this now for most
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of my career I've been focused on Kauai
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did solutions to the women's leadership
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problem things like equal pay for equal
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work affordable childcare right flexible
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workplace practices public policy
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corporate practices cultures where women
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can really bring their full selves to
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the table and the reason why i feel that
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women's leadership is really important
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is because Taniya doesn't matter so much
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what you care the most about it could be
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the environment it could be the health
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care it could be education at the end of
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the day there are people sitting around
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tables that look just like this and nice
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sometimes they're marable sometimes
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there would but they're usually in big
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plush leather chairs and these people at
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the highest levels of leadership or
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making decisions that impact every
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single one of us for most of our time in
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this country that we have a few notable
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exceptions that we love to celebrate
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this group of people sitting around
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these table are largely men they're
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largely white they're largely straight
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and able-bodied and wealthy and make no
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mistake I have a lot of friends who are
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white and male and able-bodied and
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straight and wealthy there's nothing
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wrong with that group of people it's
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just that we've got enough research now
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that shows that a diverse group of
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people coming together to solve a
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problem leads to a more innovative
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outcome so I figure that one of the
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things that we can do to solve some of
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our most complex problems is to bring a
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more diverse group of people around
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these tables I think that that would do
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the world a very a very very good thing
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the challenge is that although we don't
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have that many people of color women of
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different disabilities people from the
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LGBT community sitting around these
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tables I found that these collective
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solutions especially about four or five
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years ago started to in some ways be
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insufficient in order for us to solve
00:04:08
this problem and it happened basically
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because I got very overwhelmed trying to
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manage the number of requests that i was
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getting four coffees and lunches and
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meetings and many of you might be at a
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place in your leadership where you're
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constantly getting pinged and constantly
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getting these kinds of requests and i
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decided that i would start saying yes to
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every single
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of them now I do not advise this it's
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just that my life's work is advancing
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women and girls and so I felt the need
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to sit down and have a conversation with
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every woman that reached out to me and
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one of the things that I observed in
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these conversations is that while I was
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very focused on helping women to aspire
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to more ambition to be a CEO to be a
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senator to be a business mobile most of
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the conversation was around very
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personal things very personal aspects of
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their lives and I found over and over
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again this very direct correlation
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between a woman's ambition her desire to
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be at the highest levels of leadership
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and the amount of work or responsibility
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she felt in her personal life usually on
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the home front and one of the questions
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that I often got in relationship to this
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was to me a very personal question it
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had nothing to do with all of the big
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public policies or corporate practices
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that I was preaching about which was
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Tiffany I just want to know how are you
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managing all of these things how are you
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managing being a wife and being a mother
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and running an organization and doing
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things like writing books and I began to
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tell my personal story and in doing so I
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had to share what I felt at that time
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was my dirty feminist secret which was
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that for most of my career even though
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publicly I was the staunch advocate for
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women and leadership that I felt an
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enormous amount of pressure at home this
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is a Time magazine report and you should
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go back and look at it because one of
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the things that blew me away was this
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idea that eighty percent of young women
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millennial women felt that it was
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important to be the perfect mom the
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perfect mom so not only did I have all
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these responsibilities at home I felt
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this pressure to execute them flawlessly
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and even though I was always talking
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about how women's roles in the public
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sphere needed to be disrupted I was
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essentially on Stepford wife auto pilot
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at home and I didn't want anyone to know
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this now this auto pilot was particular
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really driven by this phenomenon that I
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talk about in the book called HPD this
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is called home control disease it's
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basically when you feel that everything
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in your home should be done a particular
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way which is basically your way and I
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know no one in this room has ever had a
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case of hcd I had a very very very bad
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case and it manifested in all kinds of
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small little things that had amounted to
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something big so for example I loved
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fresh food I love to cook and I was
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almost every day so let's say on Monday
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I made meatloaf and on Tuesday I made
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fajitas and on Wednesday I made fried
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chicken on Thursday when my husband was
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at home by himself because I was off to
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some work meeting I would expect him to
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eat the meatloaf first because I had all
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of these running expiration dates in my
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head for all of the leftovers that were
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in the fridge and I would come home and
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he'd eat in the fried chicken I would
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open the fridge and I would be like why
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didn't you eat the fried chicken why
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didn't you eat the meatloaf and he would
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say well baby I really like your fried
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chicken and I was like so you don't like
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my meal oh and he would know not to say
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anything else now this seems very small
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and insignificant the difference between
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meatloaf and fried chicken but
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manifested in all these other kinds of
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ways for example I used to feel that it
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was important that all of the hangers in
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the closet face the same direction and I
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would go back through when I was fix
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them we have an amen here we're in
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church now this is great ok i also used
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to feel that it was very important to
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take all of the mail from the mailbox
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and deal with it on the same day to like
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get rid of all the junk mail and opened
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the envelopes because otherwise it was
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pilot but i would just mean more work
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for me i also felt that it was really
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important that all of the towels in the
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linen closet be folded a certain way and
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i would actually be really annoyed when
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people wouldn't fold them correctly and
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i would go back and fix it one of the
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things that was really important to me
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was that whenever someone sent you a
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birthday party invitation that you
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responded right away because if you
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didn't that person would think that you
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were very rude and you might even miss
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the party now I want to be clear that
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for all of my obsession in hindsight
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about what
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needed to happen at home I thought of
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myself as a very modern woman very
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ambitious woman my husband and I were in
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this very modern couplehood even though
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if you had done an analysis of our
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household division of labor in 1997
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we've been married for 20 years it was
00:09:09
the same as a couple in 1950 and we
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never really questioned this now I was
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able to maintain pretty much
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flawlessness at home and at work for
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many many years and thought I was so big
00:09:22
and bad and in control until this one
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life changing event which was that we
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had a child and if there are any parents
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in the room you can already predict that
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basically my perfection at home and at
00:09:33
work spiral downhill rather rapidly and
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so I had to figure out how I was going
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to drop some balls and I want to be
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really transparent with you I didn't
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intentionally decide to drop balls in
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the very beginning I basically just got
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so overwhelmed and stressed that i
00:09:51
started dropping them and what I
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discovered was that the world didn't
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fall apart like no one came to read me
00:09:57
my Miranda rights because I didn't pay
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the parking ticket and no one ever
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called me to say I'm going to be your
00:10:02
friend anymore because you missed the
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birthday party there are three things
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very quickly that I want to share with
00:10:07
you that I had to learn to drop in this
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journey the first ball that I had to
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learn the drop was unrealistic
00:10:13
expectation about who I was supposed to
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be because what I realized is that I
00:10:18
spent a lot of time trying to fulfill
00:10:20
different roles my first role was
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daughter maybe yours was daughter or son
00:10:25
I became a friend I was a sister I was a
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student a worker eventually I became a
00:10:31
wife and a mother and by default I put
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like many women do and quite frankly
00:10:36
many men do the word good in front of
00:10:38
all of my role so it wasn't sufficient
00:10:41
to be a daughter I have to be a good
00:10:43
daughter wasn't sufficient to be a
00:10:45
student I need to be a good student and
00:10:47
a good worker and a good friend and a
00:10:49
good wife and a good mother and it turns
00:10:51
out that for all of those roles that we
00:10:53
play there's actually a job description
00:10:56
no one ever told us what the job
00:10:58
description was but I promise you
00:10:59
there's a job description for each one
00:11:02
of those roles for example in order be a
00:11:03
good sister and I'm the old
00:11:04
24 girl you have to respond to your
00:11:07
sisters text messages within two minutes
00:11:08
otherwise they'll think that you don't
00:11:10
love them right in order to be a good
00:11:11
mom you have to be there when your child
00:11:13
takes their first step right in order
00:11:16
for you to be a good husband you have to
00:11:19
aspire to be a breadwinner at all caught
00:11:21
even the cost of spending time with your
00:11:24
family even the cost of supporting the
00:11:26
women in your lives and so what I had to
00:11:28
do was move from being obsessed with
00:11:31
performance of these roles to figuring
00:11:33
out what really mattered most to me
00:11:35
where did I find meaning and how was I
00:11:38
going to use that to shape my story the
00:11:41
second ball that I had to learn to drop
00:11:43
was this ball about what I was supposed
00:11:45
to do a few years ago I did a workshop
00:11:48
with a group of women there were about
00:11:50
70 in the room and it was supposed to be
00:11:52
this time management workshop and I
00:11:54
asked all of them to write down
00:11:56
everything you expected to complete in
00:11:57
an ideal day and I mean every single
00:11:59
little things start with you get up you
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go to the gym maybe you lie in bed for
00:12:03
20 minutes thinking about how you're
00:12:05
supposed to go to the gym right you get
00:12:07
up you get dressed you have a commute
00:12:08
you prepare for meetings every single
00:12:10
little thing until you can't think of
00:12:12
anything else and I asked them to write
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down next to every single one of those
00:12:16
things how long you felt it would take
00:12:19
to complete each and every one of those
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items and then I ask them some the total
00:12:24
at the bottom well you won't be
00:12:27
surprised to know that not one person in
00:12:31
the room had a list that amounted to
00:12:33
less than the 24 hours that any of us
00:12:36
have in a day and only half the women in
00:12:38
the room had put sleep on their list and
00:12:40
I had in that moment what I call a
00:12:42
Tiffany's epiphany basically I thought
00:12:46
well it's no wonder that so many of us
00:12:48
are walking around with such feelings of
00:12:50
inadequacy when our expectation about
00:12:53
what we're supposed to do even in one
00:12:55
given day is woefully woefully
00:12:58
unrealistic is actually humanly
00:13:00
impossible to complete what most of us
00:13:02
think we're supposed to be doing in an
00:13:03
ideal day given the 24 hours that we all
00:13:06
have and so I have to figure out what is
00:13:08
my highest and best use instead of
00:13:11
managing my life on default and just
00:13:13
doing all of the things and creating a
00:13:15
bunch of to-do list what is my highest
00:13:17
and best views
00:13:18
in achieving one of the things that
00:13:20
matters most to me the third law that I
00:13:23
had to drop was the most ironic ball for
00:13:26
someone whose life's work is supporting
00:13:29
and helping other people which is that I
00:13:31
had to get over this fear of asking for
00:13:34
help okay and it was really really bad
00:13:38
for me folks I I would say that I was
00:13:42
more afraid of asking for help than I
00:13:45
was of actually dropping balls and one
00:13:48
of the people that I learned in my drop
00:13:50
the ball journey to engage and to get
00:13:52
help from was my husband in fact one of
00:13:55
the things that i delegated with joy to
00:13:58
him was the management of our kids
00:14:00
social calendar you know it's a role
00:14:02
that often times in relationships
00:14:04
defaults to the woman but it turns out
00:14:07
that the person who is the social
00:14:08
butterfly in the relationship is the
00:14:10
person who has often best equipped to
00:14:13
manage the children's social calendar so
00:14:16
here's the thing though even though I've
00:14:18
been through this drop the ball journey
00:14:20
and its really really rewarding for me
00:14:24
one of the things that I've learned is
00:14:27
that the world haven't quite evolved for
00:14:31
women who have dropped the ball or
00:14:32
reeling families who have for example no
00:14:37
one ever sends a child's birthday party
00:14:40
invitation to their dad sometimes I
00:14:44
commit this tiny act of defiance when I
00:14:47
get it in my inbox and I send it back to
00:14:49
the person and I say thank you so much
00:14:52
for inviting a clue or Kofi to the party
00:14:55
their father manages their social
00:14:57
calendar can you please send him the end
00:15:00
I give his email address but sometimes
00:15:03
with the onslaught of everything that's
00:15:05
coming at me my email box the meetings
00:15:08
rushing from here to there I start
00:15:11
relentlessly asking myself might drop
00:15:13
the ball question is responding to this
00:15:15
birthday party invitation my highest and
00:15:18
best use in raising conscious global
00:15:21
citizens and the answer is no and so I
00:15:24
move on to the next thing and that's how
00:15:28
we ended up with this situation in which
00:15:31
my daughter
00:15:32
the birthday party this is a kuwa she
00:15:37
just turned eight on Saturday so she had
00:15:41
her own birthday party on Saturday she
00:15:43
loves doughnuts with pink frosting and
00:15:46
sprinkles and a couple of months ago on
00:15:49
the day that she missed someone else's
00:15:50
birthday party even though I had no outs
00:15:53
of guilt I soaked a lot of empathy for
00:15:56
her because she was heartbroken on that
00:15:57
day and so I brought her a doughnut and
00:16:00
I read her her favorite story every time
00:16:04
I share this I usually have people in
00:16:06
the audience or that come up to me
00:16:08
afterward and they say Tiffany I get it
00:16:10
but I just couldn't do it I just
00:16:13
couldn't do it especially when you
00:16:15
showed that picture of a coup and she
00:16:16
was really really cute and she had her
00:16:18
doughnut and I want every single one of
00:16:20
you in this room to know that I
00:16:22
completely understand and I was there
00:16:26
it's just that in the seven years since
00:16:29
I've dropped the ball I've been able to
00:16:32
run a national women's leadership
00:16:34
organization I've raised millions of
00:16:37
dollars for women's and girls causes
00:16:40
I've even written a book called drop the
00:16:43
ball that I hope will reach a lot of
00:16:46
women and to help them with their
00:16:47
journeys and if if anything that I've
00:16:53
done in the past seven years helps to
00:16:56
create a world in which my little akula
00:16:58
can grow up to aspire to be anything
00:17:01
that she wants to be I just feel like
00:17:04
it's worth it I feel like it's worth it
00:17:07
for her to miss one or two birthday
00:17:10
parties and that's what I want to share
00:17:12
with you today so thank you so much
00:17:15
[Music]
00:17:18
you

Badges

This episode stands out for the following:

  • 70
    Most inspiring
  • 70
    Best performance
  • 60
    Most emotional
  • 60
    Most satisfying

Episode Highlights

  • Tiffany's Journey of Leadership
    Tiffany shares her experiences balancing personal and professional life while advocating for women's leadership.
    “My life's work is advancing women and girls.”
    @ 01m 21s
    March 17, 2017
  • The Pressure of Perfection
    Tiffany discusses the unrealistic expectations placed on women to be perfect in every role.
    “Eighty percent of young women felt it was important to be the perfect mom.”
    @ 06m 12s
    March 17, 2017
  • Dropping the Ball
    Tiffany reflects on the lessons learned from dropping the ball in her life and career.
    “I had to get over this fear of asking for help.”
    @ 13m 34s
    March 17, 2017

Episode Quotes

  • The world didn’t fall apart when I started dropping balls.
    Tiffany Dufu on Achieving More by Doing Less
  • I had to learn to drop unrealistic expectations about who I was supposed to be.
    Tiffany Dufu on Achieving More by Doing Less
  • I just feel like it's worth it.
    Tiffany Dufu on Achieving More by Doing Less

Key Moments

  • Devastating Birthday Party00:20
  • Home Control Disease06:45
  • Tiffany's Epiphany12:42
  • Empathy for Daughters15:56
  • A Mother's Guilt15:56

Words per Minute Over Time

Vibes Breakdown

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Debora Spar on Women's (Impossible) Quest for Perfection
January 13, 2014
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17:28
Debora Spar on Women's (Impossible) Quest for Perfection
Why Women Still Can’t “Have It All” — The Data on Work, Family, and Housework
October 13, 2025
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17:47
Why Women Still Can’t “Have It All” — The Data on Work, Family, and Housework
New Work and Family Choices for Men and Women
October 31, 2013
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24:03
New Work and Family Choices for Men and Women
Chanda Kochhar: Wharton india Economic Forum
April 27, 2009
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15:09
Chanda Kochhar: Wharton india Economic Forum
The Business Case for Diverse Leadership
March 26, 2014
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19:24
The Business Case for Diverse Leadership
Women & Work: Does Diversity Training Work? | Katy Milkman – Ripple Effect Podcast
March 07, 2023
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34:54
Women & Work: Does Diversity Training Work? | Katy Milkman – Ripple Effect Podcast
Senator Claire McCaskill on Embracing Ambition
October 20, 2015
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22:14
Senator Claire McCaskill on Embracing Ambition
Creating More Gender Equity in the Workplace with Wharton Prof. Maurice Schweitzer — Ripple Effect
March 12, 2024
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18:43
Creating More Gender Equity in the Workplace with Wharton Prof. Maurice Schweitzer — Ripple Effect
Why Supporting Employees Holistically Boosts Productivity
May 27, 2025
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15:41
Why Supporting Employees Holistically Boosts Productivity