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hey Runners only with dime Harley
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Runners only with dom Harvey and act
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party leader David Seymour g'day g'day
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mate how you going very well thank you
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very much for joining me on the podcast
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really appreciate it oh no great thanks
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and um the first thing we need to
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discuss and uh take off is um your
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relationship with running the podcast is
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called Runners only uh there is a
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running thread to it
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um do what is your relationship with
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running you like running you hate
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running you run it all I run every three
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years which party do you run for
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if we're talking about that um you know
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a lot of people my my late nanner in
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particular she was very secretive about
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who she voted for never shared it with
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anyone
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um I don't give a [ __ ] I've voted
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National my entire life um
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but I did vote for Eric last time around
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just because some people are improving I
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voted for Eric last time around just
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because I'm a national Wilson uh Judith
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Collins was the leader and nationalism
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disarray but I do have a lot of they
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just promoted her again Judith Collins
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yeah have they you have to vote for ACT
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again all right maybe maybe a lot can
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happen in a year so we we are recording
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this I'm not sure when this podcast is
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going to be released but we're recording
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it in mid-January the day after it was
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announced uh that Jacinda ardern
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resigned as prime minister what are your
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thoughts
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um look first of all I just wish you
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well
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um every time there's a high profile
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resignation there's all this rumor mill
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and you know I remember when John Key
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resigned some of the rumors were just so
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everyone was saying he was having a fear
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with Melissa Lee was it oh
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um wow that I hadn't heard that one yeah
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that's that's one of the better ones
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I've heard but um what did you heard or
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you don't want to go there possibly but
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the truth is
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um John loves life and he loves looking
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at numbers and he looked at his numbers
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and he realized he wasn't going to love
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life for much longer the way people were
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turning on them they didn't want to
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stick around for his own political
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funeral and being a Trader and a numbers
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man he got out before it got too hot in
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the kitchen and um I think something
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similar has happened here you look at
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what she can achieve outside politics
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versus what she can achieve inside
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politics well outside politics and as
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she said herself she she wants to see
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her daughter go to school on her first
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day and who could possibly hold that
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against it she wants to marry her
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partner good order on the other hand
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inside politics you know all the numbers
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are against her the approval rating the
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preferred prime minister the labor party
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polling the people saying the country's
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going the wrong direction the business
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confidence I mean you pick a number it's
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gone really bad recently
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um and even if she got a third term
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she'd probably be in a coalition with
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really difficult people not a single
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party government anymore and I can see
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her just saying why why I know there has
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to be a prime minister but why do I have
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to ruin my life so good honor and um you
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know obviously there's many things I
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disagree with just under a den that's
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why I lead a totally different political
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party but good honor for you know giving
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it a best having the best of intentions
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and um you know I hope that she she does
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well with her family and whatever and
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I'm sure she will have an interesting
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job next as well yeah no doubt and um
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probably earn a considerable amount more
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money I'd imagine in the private sector
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if that's what she chose to do yeah who
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knows the boards Happy Days yeah who
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knows what's your how would you describe
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your relay is there a relationship
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between you and her at all do you guys
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hate each other like if you if you if
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you hop into a left and she's there are
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you like sighing under your breath like
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oh God no no I've never felt that way
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I'm probably a bit unusual on the right
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that one is I've always thought she
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would do well
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um we were both unsuccessful candidates
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in the Auckland Central electorate in
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the 2011 election and so spending time
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with the other candidates backstage
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before the debates and stuff I mean some
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people are just dicks I'll give you
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example Winston uh yep he'd be one but
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but Colin he doesn't usually bother
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showing up for the debates but
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um Colin Craig I refuse to physically
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touch him I just knew he was a dick in
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the way that he's pursued that poor
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Express secretary through the courts
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year after year it turns out my Basic
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Instinct was was right that's right yeah
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Rachel McGregor yeah he took her to the
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cleanest she should get a honorary
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damehood or something for what she's
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gone through with that idiot but anyway
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um Jacinda on the other hand you know
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her her Charisma her warmth all of that
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stuff is real so I always thought she
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had an X Factor and a real talent and
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I've always personally liked her even as
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she's been putting in place policy is
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that I I believe will take years if not
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decades to fully reverse their impacts
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well do you think should say the same
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things about you or I reckon she hates
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you she may well do she may do I don't
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know
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um I think I think the difference is
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that she can sell and emote and and do
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things better than I ever will be able
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to on the on the marketing side my
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background is I'm an engineer I like
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putting together policy you know charter
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schools actually works uh canceled for
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ideological reasons assisted dying end
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of life choice you know that's that's a
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successful policy and so my criticism of
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her was always not not her intentions I
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mean who doesn't want to end child
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poverty and you know make New Zealand a
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kind a gentler place my criticisms of
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her always related to you know what
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she's saying she's doing is not going to
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work and often has the opposite effect I
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mean you know she banned exploring for
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natural gas but now people are using
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more coal because there's no gas I mean
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you know it's just and that's I I think
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that's the upside to everything well
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it's it's funny but somehow she got the
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intentions right and the results sort of
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totally wrong and and I think she
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probably does have some resentment that
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I've always criticized her and pointed
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that out yeah and um that sort of
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frustration on her part reached um fever
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pitch towards the end of the um
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political year last year 2022 when she
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was caught on Mike calling you what was
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it a smarmy prick is it arrogant
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arrogant yeah so that sort of went that
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sort of went viral and you sort of
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managed to turn lemons into lemonade and
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you had that had a transcript signed and
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it sold for a lot of money how much did
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it sell for on trade me like just over
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100 100 100
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that's crazy a guy who was um and it's
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the most the most amazing job he's
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actually an equine dentist uh from the
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West Coast
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um so if you need your horse's teeth
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looked into uh here's the guy and he's
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just had a big bill so he needs your
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business
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um and uh Julian Julian killer from uh
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from West Coast is a tremendous guy a
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great New Zealander who put up a hundred
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thousand dollars for the Prostate Cancer
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Foundation yeah yeah
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um something that I never I mean I saw
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that I saw that when it happened it was
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on the news that night it was everywhere
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and I thought it was kind of funny and
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the way you reacted to it it was I mean
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it was kind of funny but then I um
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something which I never really thought
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of and I read some comments online and I
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thought oh that's an interesting
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perspective had the shoe been on the
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other foot and you called her a like a
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smarmy [ __ ] or whatever an arrogant
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[ __ ] you'd be canceled oh
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can you imagine you would you wouldn't
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you wouldn't have me on on your show I
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wouldn't be here I've had a convicted
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murderer on the show I think you'd
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probably yeah maybe yeah okay yeah yeah
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but if that's your comparison I think
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you made that happen but you recognized
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that like I had the shooting on the
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other foot it's a real double standard
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isn't it
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um yeah I I think that there there are
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you know the world used to be a very
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uneven place I mean it's it's only 40
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years ago you know it's in my aunt's
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lifetime that that women couldn't have
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bank accounts and credit cards in New
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Zealand uh and there are still the
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enormous progress in remaining big
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differences and they work both ways I
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mean I think it's true that that female
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politicians tend to get more abuse and
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more violent abuse and more sexualized
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abuse I mean that's just from looking at
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some of the women we have a next caucus
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I'm pretty sure that's true
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um and yet at the same time I think
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sometimes men get get held to a higher
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standard I mean you look at the green
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co-leader Barbara Davidson going around
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talking about the the c word and saying
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that you know seas are powerful and
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she's reclaiming the word I mean how
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like I mean now that's mostly just weird
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but you know like somehow that's okay
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whereas I just I just get the feeling
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that
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um you know other people might get in
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Greater difficulty then again I did say
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the French love the [ __ ] and got away
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with it so oh yeah maybe maybe that's
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not a good example it's one of your
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viral moments I do want to get to that
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later
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um
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but I since since we've talked about
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your relationship with Jacinda before we
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move on um I'd like to talk about
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another couple of relationships so uh
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Willie Jackson he's a politician what
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did he call you he called you like a
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useless Mary or something I know and I
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just want to say I'm a very useful now
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right is that what is that what it was
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useless Mary yeah yeah so you um you are
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Maori you're that's right yeah yeah yeah
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very sad watching Seymour a man who
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claimed he was Maori you just don't know
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where he's coming from
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you know so so you know like how do you
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feel about that that's that's incredibly
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hurtful right racist uh well it is but
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again it sort of depends because I mean
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Willie mouths off in some way or another
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every day so you sort of don't take
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anything you take says that seriously
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yeah but is that kind of just saying oh
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that's Willie being Willy that's excuse
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me let's just say Willie's a bit of a
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willy right um look I think he's a he's
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a fascinating guy uh well yeah he's he's
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impossible not to like
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um and I remember shortly after he
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became a minister because here New
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Zealand have a sense of humor and sit
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here next to the most unlikely people
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sometimes
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um and he he'd been up uh in question
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time and there's the standard thing they
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ask you know does the minister stand by
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all their statements and of course you
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have to say yeah so of course I stand by
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all my States and then try and justify
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them and Willie just goes well yeah at
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the time
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I'm sorry I was sitting next to him on
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the plane and I said Willie you can't
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say that yeah
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dude you just meant so I mean and when
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when it came to um end of life choice
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because I you know I had to get every
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person to vote for it or enough people
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and one by one and we spent a lot of
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time meeting with Willie and talking
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about
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um you know what uh euthanasia meant in
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Tao Maori and
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um you know with a bit of help from an
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old Courier who remained nameless who
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we've basically sat on him and she she
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talked around I think but he did
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actually give a a really beautiful
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speech in Parliament about why he
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decided to vote for the bill and he has
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a way of simplifying things down or
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maybe you only get simple things in the
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first place but you know he has a way of
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communicating things simply that is is a
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talent and everyone has a talent of
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sorts but
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um so look that's that's Willy but I I
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think there's also a darker side to him
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in the sense that you know I think he
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genuinely believes that
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um if you don't believe the right thing
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then you're not a real Maori and and
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that is that is a really big problem
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because you know we had hundreds of
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years of of fighting for everyone to be
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equal and free and now we're putting up
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these walls again saying no no if you
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think this is the wrong type of person
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or whatever and and that that's not
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that's not what New Zealand's supposed
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to be about do you have an ability to
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just pick up a guitar and play it
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without doing any lessons or watching
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tutorials on YouTube mate I'm tone deaf
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I had lessons for years maybe he's on to
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something then yeah I know it could be
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obviously I'm disqualified yeah
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um okay one other person I want to
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discuss your relationship with before we
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move on to some other stuff Winston is
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that um is that a hate hate relationship
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or is it was it like on-screen banter he
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seems to you seem to have a neck of
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really getting under his skin yeah well
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I mean I remember when
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um you know I was first elected and it
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was the same time Chris Bishop was first
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elected and Bish seems to have the same
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effect and we both we both gave speeches
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because you get to give their first
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speech the maiden speech we both gave
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speeches saying look basically while New
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Zealand's got some problems we quite
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like the modern New Zealand um we think
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that New Zealand has turned out you know
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pretty good yes there's some things that
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have gone wrong and yes there were some
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things that were better in the old days
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but on balance that somewhat open and
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more tolerant a richer a more hopeful
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Society than it's been for a long time
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and people I know people say oh about
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somewhere but I mean honestly ask anyone
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who was actually around in 1980 what
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this country was like and what it's like
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today and which one would you want to
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live in it's an easy thing yeah for sure
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um and of course we were giving those
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speeches and and his whole belief is
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that actually it would be better to go
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back 50 years and I think to see you
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know young people getting elected to
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Parliament saying actually you know what
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you're you're the past now you've lost
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the battle
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um and we're moving on and and there's
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not really
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um you know your politics doesn't really
00:13:36
have anything to offer now because
00:13:38
people are happy with with the way
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things are generally that's called
00:13:41
progression isn't it yeah and I I think
00:13:43
that's really broken him uh because you
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know he wants to take us back to the
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good old days when it was great to be a
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white straight man in the rugby racing
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and beer in New Zealand's just his New
00:13:55
Zealand doesn't exist anymore well
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there's aspects of 1980 that were
00:13:58
probably better than than what they are
00:13:59
now but yeah for the most part probably
00:14:01
not right
00:14:02
I mean you know I remember 1980 I was
00:14:05
seven at the time and uh we didn't we
00:14:07
moved to a new subdivision we didn't
00:14:09
have like fences with our neighbors and
00:14:10
we'd go wandering around and Mum would
00:14:12
basically lock us outside and say go out
00:14:13
and play and we'd just play and then
00:14:14
she'd call out for us at dinner time so
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there's aspects of that are simple in
00:14:17
New Zealand which is quite a beautiful
00:14:18
thing but you can't have some of that
00:14:21
and
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yeah I mean I think you're talking about
00:14:24
a very specific thing well well no it's
00:14:27
really interesting because like
00:14:29
um you you know kids are objectively
00:14:32
safer like the chance of of something
00:14:35
really bad happening to a kid now like
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it's never been a safer time
00:14:39
um but people's perception is that it's
00:14:42
really dangerous and the funny thing is
00:14:45
because people are so scared for their
00:14:47
kids they protect them and they actually
00:14:49
are in Greater danger because they
00:14:50
haven't had Independence they haven't
00:14:52
had to build resilience so anyway that's
00:14:54
it I think that's a very interesting
00:14:55
example yeah but it's against the trade
00:14:58
yeah and that's probably a good point
00:14:59
now that I think back Riverdale Primary
00:15:02
School in Palmerston North like we're
00:15:03
like a jungle gym there and uh it was a
00:15:05
concrete pad underneath
00:15:07
um it's a head injury waiting to happen
00:15:09
doesn't it yeah I mean look you know
00:15:11
it's probably most kids were okay there
00:15:14
were a couple that weren't but we don't
00:15:15
talk about them okay so let's go all the
00:15:18
way back so um you're born in Palmerston
00:15:20
North um I'm from Palmer's North as well
00:15:22
I've heard you make a very charitable
00:15:24
joke
00:15:25
um that you were born and as soon as you
00:15:26
were able to walk you left town well it
00:15:29
means for it I was about a team I didn't
00:15:31
say they were connected but I was about
00:15:33
18 months so yeah so then where you
00:15:34
moved to Northland yeah yeah yeah and
00:15:36
that's where you were sort of born and
00:15:37
raised
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I was born in party but my um my dad's
00:15:42
family is from the manawatu and my mum's
00:15:44
family's from Northland okay so we sort
00:15:45
of bounced between the two so it's you
00:15:47
and um two brothers uh so Mark and
00:15:50
Zander Mark and Xander and um your mum
00:15:52
and dad were they to they remain
00:15:53
together that they break up
00:15:55
um well they well they were told they
00:15:58
they practiced till death do us part
00:16:00
um but unfortunately my mum passed away
00:16:02
15 years ago uh this year yeah so they
00:16:05
were still together then yeah certainly
00:16:07
together at that point yeah yeah
00:16:09
um yeah sorry to hear that
00:16:11
um yeah so you're um yeah so your
00:16:14
relationship with your dad I saw an
00:16:15
article online you took him to the dudes
00:16:16
concert a couple of years ago and you
00:16:18
you had a name for it you called it the
00:16:19
good son was that just a David Seymour
00:16:22
joke well I didn't realize I'd said that
00:16:24
publicly but yeah um what is the good
00:16:26
Sun project well now he'll oh shh now I
00:16:29
hope he doesn't hear this now he'll tell
00:16:30
you what I'm just doing them it's just
00:16:32
part of a project
00:16:33
um uh no I I tried to do uh you know do
00:16:37
it appropriate stuff and one thing we
00:16:39
have in common so he he was in a band
00:16:41
back in the day
00:16:42
um and um famous band or just like a oh
00:16:45
I think they won Battle of the band so
00:16:47
yeah what was the band called it was
00:16:49
called freeway and um various members
00:16:52
sort of you know joined and separated
00:16:55
and joined and eventually part of it
00:16:57
ended up being my six so so yeah so they
00:17:00
were you know sort of sort of a couple
00:17:02
of steps from it's sort of like being
00:17:04
you know Princess Beatrice or something
00:17:06
you're a few steps away but you know but
00:17:09
almost almost royalty yeah yeah and so
00:17:13
yeah it's good to see um I mean the
00:17:14
dudes was just absolutely stunning to
00:17:17
see
00:17:18
um so to finally understand why that
00:17:20
band was so brilliant but couldn't last
00:17:22
to see how good Peter erlich's vocals
00:17:25
were and how great
00:17:26
um Dave dobbyn was as a lead guitarist
00:17:28
but also watch that Dave wanted to be
00:17:30
the singer which of course eventually
00:17:32
became DD smash yeah and eventually got
00:17:34
to sing all his own songs
00:17:36
um but it's just a shame that it
00:17:38
couldn't hang together yeah
00:17:40
um yeah so so yeah that felt like a
00:17:43
political art it was a lovely answer and
00:17:44
a great chance to reminisce about my sex
00:17:46
and the dudes but it felt like a
00:17:47
distraction to the the good Sun project
00:17:50
well which I which I'm trying not to
00:17:52
publicize undermine
00:17:54
can I when I read that can I let you
00:17:57
know what I think it means I feel I feel
00:17:59
like you're so busy and maybe you
00:18:01
haven't spent as much time with your dad
00:18:02
as what you think you should and you
00:18:03
realize he's not getting any younger so
00:18:04
you need to make a conscious effort to
00:18:05
do some things but we're going to the
00:18:08
we're going to the
00:18:09
um uh hot rod and classic car uh day at
00:18:15
upper up at kumeu this weekend so there
00:18:17
you go it's another installment but Dad
00:18:19
it's not it's not part of a project I
00:18:20
really do want to do it but you're
00:18:22
trying to do like one one thing a month
00:18:24
is it once every quarter I know you're a
00:18:26
busy guy closer to quarter to be honest
00:18:28
but yeah it's pretty wild as usual and
00:18:30
how's um how's he been has he found
00:18:32
anyone another partner or anything
00:18:34
yeah he has
00:18:36
um but you know there's I try not to
00:18:38
bring my my family too much into I'm the
00:18:40
one that shows a public life rather than
00:18:42
them so yeah is that shutting this this
00:18:45
line of questioning down because I I you
00:18:47
know I mean yeah the stuff about you
00:18:50
want to talk about your mum or oh sure
00:18:52
okay so your mum uh Victoria
00:18:55
um incredible woman so she was one of
00:18:57
the last last last kids in the Western
00:18:59
World had Polio that's true yeah so what
00:19:02
does that mean exactly like what does
00:19:04
that look like well so
00:19:06
um you know one of the most
00:19:07
extraordinary things that's happened in
00:19:09
New Zealand history is when the sulk
00:19:11
vaccine arrived
00:19:13
um by airplane and people who knew the
00:19:16
horror of polio you know children with
00:19:19
wasted limbs getting put into iron lungs
00:19:21
and terrible terrible epidemic like like
00:19:24
nothing you know what we've seen with
00:19:26
covers is nothing compared to the the
00:19:28
horror of that and and people who had
00:19:30
experienced it that they were so
00:19:32
desperate for the vaccine they actually
00:19:34
went out on because there was not much
00:19:36
airport security then people actually
00:19:37
went out onto the runway to try and get
00:19:39
it to try and get it straight off the
00:19:40
plane when was this like 96 well this
00:19:42
was not this was 1956 right in September
00:19:45
of that year she was born in April of
00:19:47
that year and I I might I have this
00:19:49
entirely right but Pete what I've pieced
00:19:51
together is that she was supposed to get
00:19:53
the vaccine at six months
00:19:55
um but they didn't have it in dargaville
00:19:58
into copperu hospital where she was born
00:20:01
and so as a result she missed out on
00:20:04
getting the vaccine and so after that I
00:20:07
mean the Salk vaccine just wiped polio
00:20:09
out from New Zealand so she was one of
00:20:11
the last to get it and I made a few
00:20:14
things I mean it meant that you know she
00:20:15
was told that she wouldn't run
00:20:18
um that she wouldn't be on this podcast
00:20:21
um you know who couldn't walk that she
00:20:23
wouldn't have children she wouldn't
00:20:24
drive she wouldn't uh you know go to
00:20:26
university she wouldn't work because
00:20:28
you've got to remember the attitudes to
00:20:30
people with a disability was different
00:20:31
completely different you know like yeah
00:20:32
they sort of hidden from mainstream
00:20:34
Society yeah like like now if someone is
00:20:36
living with a disability you really try
00:20:38
and help if you can
00:20:40
um but then it was almost like you're
00:20:42
sort of because you're not able you're
00:20:44
letting the side down totally different
00:20:45
treatment
00:20:47
um
00:20:47
and so that's that's a really
00:20:50
um you know a good thing in a way that
00:20:51
it's changed but that's what you face
00:20:53
then so her story is incredible
00:20:55
determination and as it turned out I
00:20:57
mean she had kids we mentioned my
00:20:59
brothers are fine upstanding citizens
00:21:01
who said a politician but you know
00:21:04
um you can't have three perfect kids can
00:21:06
you no exactly so one one politician's
00:21:08
not a bad price to pay for two good kids
00:21:11
um and um she she um she you know became
00:21:15
northland's biggest drug dealer
00:21:17
um
00:21:18
she was the chief pharmacist at
00:21:20
Northland dhb I mean she was shifting 15
00:21:23
million bucks of product into Northland
00:21:25
every year would that make her the
00:21:26
biggest drug dealer I don't know I feel
00:21:28
like there's some big shipments coming
00:21:29
into caprianga yeah actually I mean by
00:21:32
that's in 2007.
00:21:35
and you'd know more about drugs than me
00:21:37
Don but but
00:21:39
um you know it was a brilliant scheme
00:21:41
she was doing it right under the
00:21:43
government's nose but getting them to
00:21:44
fund it but um no so she you know she
00:21:46
was one of a Vanguard of women who Who
00:21:49
Rose to the top of their professions how
00:21:50
did a woman to do that in their
00:21:52
Generation
00:21:53
Um she really defied the odds didn't she
00:21:54
so that's that's quite a formative story
00:21:57
because I think a lot of what comes down
00:21:59
to in politics there's there's people
00:22:01
that believe you can make a difference
00:22:03
in your own life and there's people that
00:22:04
will tell you oh it's you know because
00:22:06
of colonialism or it's because of this
00:22:08
or that or structural something that you
00:22:11
know you will never succeed or you need
00:22:12
to be treated differently to 60 or
00:22:14
whatever and I'm on the side that says
00:22:17
actually you know the the ability to
00:22:19
think and reason and make a difference
00:22:21
make tomorrow better than today I mean
00:22:23
that's that's what New Zealand's about
00:22:24
because the one thing I know about every
00:22:27
kiwi is that either you or your
00:22:29
ancestors at some point someone decided
00:22:31
to move way the [ __ ] out to the middle
00:22:32
of nowhere so it's the longest journey
00:22:35
on anyone's ever made
00:22:36
and unimaginably horrible as well yeah
00:22:39
for the Hope or promise of a better life
00:22:41
and we've all got it in common I mean
00:22:43
you know the early Polynesian Navigators
00:22:46
who were ancestors of Maori I mean that
00:22:48
was amazing
00:22:49
um yeah why did they leave Hawaii like
00:22:51
yeah so what better do you want well one
00:22:54
this place is amazing well Hawaii key
00:22:57
but I mean one theory is that um because
00:23:00
they didn't have um any kind of
00:23:02
telecommunications
00:23:04
um the ones that didn't come back they
00:23:06
assumed they'd gone to a better place
00:23:07
even if they all drowned so they just
00:23:09
kept going until someone got somewhere
00:23:11
yeah I don't know so so
00:23:13
um so so you mum we're growing up like
00:23:15
would you say you're more of a mummy's
00:23:16
boy or a daddy's boy or yeah a equal
00:23:19
relationship with both of them oh but to
00:23:21
be honest I'm a pretty
00:23:22
independent-minded sort of person yeah
00:23:24
are you where are you in the birth order
00:23:25
I'm a a pre there's a word for it
00:23:28
primogenitor
00:23:30
um the firstborn oh yeah yeah it's the
00:23:32
first okay so you're 39 yeah how old are
00:23:35
your brothers 37 and 35 35 34 well it
00:23:39
depends what time of year it is up but
00:23:40
yeah 37 and 34 at the moment yeah so you
00:23:42
so your mum mum she starts feeling
00:23:44
unwell
00:23:46
um she got a she took a pregnancy test
00:23:48
or something right when she started
00:23:49
feeling unwell even though she was oh
00:23:51
she doesn't know I didn't know that she
00:23:53
was um she was she was 50 so that's a
00:23:56
bit hopeful you know I I think this
00:23:58
seems back to her um like her drug
00:24:00
background so she she took a pregnancy
00:24:01
test and it gave her like a false
00:24:04
positive how do I know this and you
00:24:05
don't this is not what I have heard this
00:24:07
story I'm trying to work out where you
00:24:09
heard it but I think I read it somewhere
00:24:10
yeah I did a lot of research so you
00:24:12
suggested positive so she knew she
00:24:13
wasn't yeah no I think that story is
00:24:15
true because she knew there was some
00:24:17
other marker that it would um would
00:24:19
trigger
00:24:20
um so yeah there was some sort of
00:24:22
logically but not the way most people
00:24:24
would use pregnancy tests but
00:24:26
um in any event yeah she she had cancer
00:24:29
and it gradually spread and and then
00:24:32
ended up spreading much more rapidly
00:24:34
than anyone expected
00:24:36
um lifestyle related or just bad luck
00:24:38
bad genes oh
00:24:40
um look there's there's some speculation
00:24:43
that it was related to the fact that her
00:24:45
job as a as a pharmacist at Northern
00:24:47
hospital was actually preparing Cancer
00:24:51
drugs for or chemotherapy treatments
00:24:54
which which are radioactive
00:24:56
um so but look I that that's a theory
00:24:59
that some people have have shared I
00:25:01
don't want to blame anyone at the
00:25:02
Northland dhb for for that being the
00:25:05
case but that's that's the closest to a
00:25:07
theory other than just total Randomness
00:25:09
yeah so um so how are you at the time
00:25:11
you like 20 early 20s
00:25:13
so you you yeah so you just finished
00:25:15
your University degrees Yeah so I just
00:25:18
graduated uni I would have been 23 so
00:25:20
can you remember that moment where you
00:25:21
got the news I can actually because I
00:25:24
was um I had a mate who decided to go
00:25:26
and work down in Queenstown and it
00:25:29
hadn't really been all that was cracked
00:25:30
up to be so I flew down there and we
00:25:32
drove back up so I was actually on a
00:25:34
phone booth in hokitika uh just because
00:25:37
remember this was it's aging out yeah
00:25:39
2006 yeah well you could still you know
00:25:42
kids you could go to a tardis well you
00:25:45
actually you could go to a box look
00:25:47
forget it they were fine there were
00:25:50
phones that didn't move
00:25:51
a long time ago
00:25:53
uh so now I do remember that so you
00:25:56
expect so you find her from the yeah she
00:25:58
can't find you in a phone box so you
00:25:59
phone home why did you phone home just
00:26:01
for a chicken oh E.T
00:26:03
um
00:26:05
no idea
00:26:06
um yeah no not sure about the reason but
00:26:09
anyway that was the conversation
00:26:11
wow and was it terminal at that stage or
00:26:15
were they quite hopeful of like finding
00:26:17
a way out of it I mean well she seems
00:26:18
like a result she she fought polio and
00:26:20
she likes you to fight all the odds yeah
00:26:22
well as you say I mean she you know she
00:26:24
read her own
00:26:26
um she read her own test results because
00:26:29
she was heavily involved in oncology at
00:26:31
the hospital so she as she said she she
00:26:34
read her results and she knew it was a
00:26:36
death sentence
00:26:37
um
00:26:38
it's pretty bad it's pretty bad when you
00:26:41
go in and the oncologist's crying so
00:26:45
um yeah so no she was pretty uh
00:26:47
realistic about it so did you as I being
00:26:50
the oldest of the three boys did you
00:26:51
have to sort of um I don't know like put
00:26:54
on a like a brave face for you for your
00:26:56
brothers how old were they like like
00:26:57
well they would have been you know three
00:27:00
and two uh or three and five years
00:27:02
younger than me so I guess 18 17 and and
00:27:05
19 or 18 or 20.
00:27:08
um yeah look obviously you know one
00:27:11
thing about death and and funerals and
00:27:13
so on is that they they do actually
00:27:15
unite families
00:27:17
um even though it's probably not really
00:27:18
worth it but that's that's one minus
00:27:21
Silver Lining yeah depends who it is I
00:27:24
guess
00:27:24
so yeah so I read that you um so you'd
00:27:27
graduated and you were just about to go
00:27:29
to Canada to take up a job over there
00:27:30
yeah and um you were like oh do I go do
00:27:33
I not go and your mum was like go you
00:27:36
can't put your life on hold because of
00:27:37
me just make sure you [ __ ] come back
00:27:38
for my funeral
00:27:39
yeah yeah well of course the other thing
00:27:41
is with with terminal illnesses and I'll
00:27:44
get in trouble at the end of life choice
00:27:46
people for saying this but there is some
00:27:47
uncertainty about the prognosis and
00:27:49
until you get quite close it's hard to
00:27:51
really say so so yeah there was it was a
00:27:54
little bit of that going on for sure
00:27:55
yeah so you um
00:27:57
but so you have to go to Canada and then
00:28:00
um
00:28:01
I read her she declined really quickly
00:28:03
and then uh that's right like in a
00:28:05
matter of like weeks or something yeah
00:28:06
yeah no that's uh well months but yeah
00:28:09
right faster than expected
00:28:12
um so uh so it's a terrible thing right
00:28:14
it's very unfair
00:28:17
um but life's like that sometimes
00:28:19
yeah yeah I'm real sorry you had to go
00:28:21
through that it's a lot yeah me too
00:28:24
um
00:28:25
yeah
00:28:27
and
00:28:29
um
00:28:31
and I can't there's one more thing I
00:28:33
wanted to ask about with this sure
00:28:35
um so she did she um I read something
00:28:38
she recorded a DVD for each of you three
00:28:40
boys oh yeah yeah yeah
00:28:42
um which is it like it's like the phone
00:28:43
box that sort of Ages this conversation
00:28:47
um so she a DVD what's on the DVD like a
00:28:50
repair apparently it's a message to my
00:28:52
future partner so I've I've heard that
00:28:54
DVDs don't keep that well so I better
00:28:56
find someone relatively soon I think I
00:28:59
think that the DVDs came well but
00:29:01
finding a player will be the difficult
00:29:02
thing so uh so you're like just a part
00:29:06
that you're seeing or the person you're
00:29:07
going to marry oh I think it's got to be
00:29:08
a bit more serious right right so you're
00:29:11
not just whipping it out on the first
00:29:12
date no no no no no the whole thing can
00:29:14
be worn out but right
00:29:17
I've never watched it so so but you um I
00:29:21
have your brothers seen theirs I assume
00:29:24
so but yeah it's not it's not a
00:29:26
conversation you've had no I don't want
00:29:28
to I don't want to spoiler alert have
00:29:31
you not watched it because like it's too
00:29:33
hard to watch or uh
00:29:35
I mean I'm thinking I'm trying to put
00:29:37
myself I'm probably projecting here but
00:29:39
if it was me I'd want to watch it
00:29:41
straight away I think it was it was
00:29:44
designed for a specific purpose and I
00:29:46
think it would be wrong to not use it
00:29:49
for that purpose so your brothers
00:29:50
haven't told you what what their message
00:29:52
is well no because then I have a spoiler
00:29:54
right right yeah but it's obviously like
00:29:56
a personalized message where she
00:29:57
obviously
00:29:59
I don't know anything about it yeah see
00:30:01
that's the thing and if I find out
00:30:03
anything I ruin it so it's only only
00:30:05
used for the actual purpose right but
00:30:06
I'm imagining it's like an instruction
00:30:08
manual and it's all very personalized so
00:30:10
it's not it's not three copies of the
00:30:12
one you know the one DVD we don't know
00:30:15
that's the most that's the most yeah if
00:30:17
the DVD is not rooted we'll find out
00:30:21
that's the most um
00:30:22
oh that's the most beautiful thing and
00:30:24
so you you don't like at what stage did
00:30:27
she do this like how close well pretty
00:30:30
close
00:30:31
um so it would have been in her final
00:30:33
months yeah
00:30:35
I reckon you just get you can't watch it
00:30:36
because it's too hard
00:30:38
um maybe maybe it's too hard to watch
00:30:41
alone so you know
00:30:49
so she never got to see you as a
00:30:50
politician or well no and she she
00:30:53
thought I was wasting my time with
00:30:54
action she's probably she's probably
00:30:56
right at the time
00:30:57
you wanted me to be an engineer right
00:30:59
you know a good respectable scientific
00:31:01
based career
00:31:04
um and then in a way she's probably
00:31:05
right but um no she she I mean she
00:31:08
didn't think actor was rescueable who
00:31:11
was it Rodney hiking or no is it way way
00:31:13
well she yeah Rodney would have been the
00:31:15
leader when she died Rocking Around in
00:31:16
the Yellow Jacket yeah yeah so she I
00:31:19
don't think I think I think if she was
00:31:22
alive now she would be pleased that it's
00:31:25
I managed I've managed to resurrect it
00:31:27
beyond what seemed possible then but at
00:31:30
that time she was pretty dark on the
00:31:32
whole process it was fair to say
00:31:35
um what was her sort of um political
00:31:37
leanings
00:31:39
I think she'd be on the right
00:31:41
um
00:31:42
possibly an act voter
00:31:45
um I think her values aligned with act
00:31:47
whether she would have probably
00:31:49
indicates whether actor had reached its
00:31:52
full potential at that point
00:31:54
um I would say that
00:31:56
um you know now someone like her whose
00:31:59
fundamental story is about making a
00:32:01
difference despite the odds uh you know
00:32:04
not making excuses but taking initiative
00:32:06
I think I think she would be an ex voter
00:32:08
now I can understand you know and that
00:32:11
and that period She might not have been
00:32:13
because I have been 99 of the country
00:32:15
weren't yeah so and and before
00:32:19
um before she passed she she a sister
00:32:22
and another friend and uh she sort of
00:32:25
recruited them and basically said you
00:32:26
know make sure you you look after my
00:32:28
three boys even though you're all
00:32:30
essentially men at that point well yeah
00:32:32
well yes and no I mean you think about a
00:32:34
19 year old
00:32:36
um he still had a lot of growing up yeah
00:32:38
one point they're quite happy to send
00:32:40
them off to a fight in foreign countries
00:32:42
but now they require a bit more cotton
00:32:43
wool that is the state of 19 year old
00:32:48
um but so yeah that looks the elements
00:32:50
of Truth on that and and both um Nicola
00:32:52
and and Penny have who have been have
00:32:56
really uh followed that through so we're
00:32:57
really lucky to have them in our lives
00:32:59
all three of us so one of them says
00:33:00
sister who's the The Other Woman and the
00:33:02
other one's her best friend at High
00:33:03
School
00:33:04
man that's so nice and and uh but yeah
00:33:06
they've kept their promise with all
00:33:07
three of you guys uh yeah yeah I think
00:33:09
that's I think they have and that's
00:33:11
that's quite a sweet thing and it
00:33:12
certainly um you know a lot of people
00:33:14
really appreciated that um including
00:33:17
they they came and they told me later
00:33:20
they they came to the first um episode
00:33:23
of Dancing With the Stars they were in
00:33:25
the audience live and they said they
00:33:27
were they were they came because they
00:33:28
wanted to be there when they got voted
00:33:30
off
00:33:49
what does that relationship look like
00:33:51
they just they text once in a while and
00:33:53
just I mean I suppose you don't really
00:33:55
need them now but it's well they're good
00:33:57
I mean I'm very bad at cooking I mean my
00:34:00
my kpi for cooking is not killing anyone
00:34:03
and um so they they sometimes give me
00:34:06
food which is good
00:34:08
um and and and and have me over for
00:34:10
dinner which is really nice of them too
00:34:13
so I sometimes invite them over but they
00:34:15
always say oh no no just come to me I
00:34:17
said okay well it's fine possibly from
00:34:19
last time yeah so when um like Wendy
00:34:22
when do you miss your mum the most these
00:34:24
days is it things like um election night
00:34:26
and uh I I when the when the right to
00:34:29
die bill came through which was like
00:34:30
your sort of child is it is it occasions
00:34:34
like that what is that
00:34:35
um well it's a shame that that she
00:34:37
didn't get to see that um you know what
00:34:41
I was choosing to do that she didn't
00:34:43
support worked out better than she
00:34:44
thought so that's a real shame and some
00:34:46
of those events you know probably good
00:34:49
good examples
00:34:51
um but I I think it's more just that you
00:34:54
don't have someone to talk to and I
00:34:56
think everyone that loses someone thinks
00:34:58
this you know be nice to have a person
00:35:00
to talk to about whatever
00:35:03
um at different times and they're not
00:35:05
particularly you know special times
00:35:07
they're just any kinds of time that
00:35:09
things are happening you wish you could
00:35:10
talk to someone so or a particular
00:35:12
person yeah yeah oh thanks for being so
00:35:14
open about that well one thing um one
00:35:17
thing I overlooked um in your past life
00:35:19
you're a like a telephone counselor for
00:35:21
a kids line or youth line or something
00:35:22
yeah when was this like a university job
00:35:24
or no no no no so kids line was was an
00:35:28
amazing service that they started it
00:35:29
back in 88. and the concept was that
00:35:33
they would take callers
00:35:35
who were sort of 7 to 13.
00:35:39
um and then they would train up people
00:35:41
they call Buddies so technically not
00:35:43
counselors but buddies who were sixth
00:35:46
and seventh forms which translates to
00:35:48
year 12 or 13. so they'd take about 80
00:35:51
buddies out of high schools near by
00:35:55
and then they'd take us away on camps
00:35:59
and do training and you know words that
00:36:01
connect and how to ask open question
00:36:03
versus close questions and and basically
00:36:05
you'd go and do a shift for two hours
00:36:07
after school and there'd be maybe half a
00:36:10
dozen and you know half a dozen phones
00:36:12
and
00:36:13
um Hey Joe hey job or volunteer a
00:36:14
volunteer yeah and kids would kids would
00:36:16
ring up and say you know I'm being
00:36:18
bullied and you'd say okay well and then
00:36:20
you'd sort of have a strategy of letting
00:36:22
them talk about it and then suggesting
00:36:24
like who's your favorite what's your
00:36:26
favorite subject because their favorite
00:36:27
subject is usually your favorite teacher
00:36:29
who you're most likely to talk to and
00:36:31
try and get them to rehearse a
00:36:32
conversation and go through and you know
00:36:34
find support or you know rationalize
00:36:36
their problem or whatever so it was a
00:36:39
was a really neat thing because the
00:36:41
people that did it as volunteers were
00:36:43
fantastic and quite a few of them remain
00:36:46
really close friends I stormed one this
00:36:48
morning actually
00:36:50
um and um the other part of it was that
00:36:54
um it um gave a lot of skills and the
00:36:57
funny thing about up to you personally
00:36:59
yeah and the funny thing is
00:37:02
um politicians are known for talking
00:37:04
but if you actually think about the job
00:37:06
of being a representative so an Epsom I
00:37:09
represent about 70 000 people and
00:37:11
there's one of me so really you should
00:37:14
be doing 70 000 times more listening
00:37:16
than talking now obviously that's not
00:37:18
possible but um
00:37:20
you know the the
00:37:23
um you need what 20 years for every one
00:37:26
day of talking but putting that aside
00:37:28
you know about putting but putting that
00:37:30
aside how long have you been in politics
00:37:32
you would have yet to have your first
00:37:33
talking about I wouldn't be able to say
00:37:34
anything people would be like well we
00:37:36
keep telling them stuff but we have no
00:37:37
idea
00:37:40
yeah exactly yeah
00:37:43
um but um but in any case
00:37:46
um you you know we we um so those were
00:37:50
those were actually really useful skills
00:37:52
um so so it was a very cool charity and
00:37:54
you know the real tragedy of it when I
00:37:57
um when I did Dancing with the Stars I I
00:37:59
actually gave all the fees and money
00:38:01
raised by the ticks and all that that
00:38:03
gave all that to to kids line and then a
00:38:06
year later it wound up and part of the
00:38:09
problem and the funny thing is it's
00:38:10
probably never been needed more than now
00:38:12
yeah and and you know it goes back to
00:38:14
the thing we were saying a bit earlier
00:38:16
part of the reason was that under health
00:38:19
and safety rules they found it was
00:38:21
unfair to expose young people to other
00:38:24
young people's problems because they
00:38:25
might not be able to handle it and and
00:38:28
so that's that's part of the I mean
00:38:30
that's not there were various issues a
00:38:31
big issue was that a big issue was
00:38:33
texting so kids didn't want to talk on
00:38:35
the phone kind of screwed the whole
00:38:36
thing but but part of the issue was that
00:38:39
they couldn't actually get the the six
00:38:41
and seventh formers to to be the
00:38:42
councilors
00:38:44
um because they had a duty of care to
00:38:46
keep them safe so it's okay that kids
00:38:49
who are 10 are so screwed up they don't
00:38:51
know what to say or who to call or who
00:38:53
to talk to but
00:38:55
um our laws and our regulations are so
00:38:57
crazy now that that you couldn't it's
00:38:59
actually illegal for kids to help other
00:39:00
kids insane that is dumb how is it
00:39:03
different to um like the school system
00:39:05
we have a seventh former that gets
00:39:06
paired up with like a third form or
00:39:07
whatever you know some sort of school
00:39:08
buddy system well and in that instance
00:39:11
that I mean each yeah anyway yeah each
00:39:14
boss has got to make their own decision
00:39:16
in that case the principal would have to
00:39:17
decide if they were you know being a
00:39:19
good person conducting a business
00:39:20
undertaking but anyway
00:39:21
um so so you you did that do you feel
00:39:23
ironic now that you're in one of the one
00:39:25
of the one of the work environments
00:39:26
that's most right life with bullying
00:39:28
around
00:39:29
politics that's a nasty business eh it
00:39:33
doesn't it doesn't have to be yeah but
00:39:35
it just is yeah
00:39:37
I I don't really understand it
00:39:40
um I've had an odd introduction to
00:39:42
politics that I started off it was just
00:39:44
me for six years
00:39:45
so I got the opportunity to start a a
00:39:48
clean slate and when
00:39:51
um we got 10 MPS and a chief executive
00:39:54
of big bank said to me oh it's going to
00:39:56
be bloody difficult I said mate
00:39:57
tell me you wouldn't take the chance to
00:40:00
wipe a clean slate and start the culture
00:40:02
of your bank all over again and they
00:40:04
said actually yeah okay fair enough
00:40:06
that's a good point so we've done a
00:40:09
whole lot of stuff like for example
00:40:11
Parliament has a rabbit Warren and it
00:40:14
has all these offices and peers a big
00:40:17
office in a little office one MP one
00:40:18
staff member and that staff member has
00:40:21
to do everything for you but they don't
00:40:23
have the range of skills that you need
00:40:24
their social media Logistics
00:40:26
communication you know they don't have
00:40:28
all those skills
00:40:29
so as a result you've depended on this
00:40:32
one person you know it's scary and
00:40:33
unfamiliar environment and they take it
00:40:34
out on the one person and the rabbit
00:40:36
wire in their chamber of the Rabbit wine
00:40:39
um I said that's nuts so it has an open
00:40:41
plan
00:40:42
so you can't be bullying someone because
00:40:44
you'd be 20 people would see you doing
00:40:46
it
00:40:47
um now why every in the Parliamentary
00:40:50
service or the Parliamentary bureaucracy
00:40:51
are now trying to copy our model and
00:40:54
Shop it to our competitors because
00:40:56
that's just what bureaucrats do but
00:40:58
um you know these Innovations you can
00:41:00
make that that change that and then we
00:41:03
said well rather than one MP employing
00:41:05
one person we said well 10 MPS are going
00:41:07
to employ 20 people
00:41:09
um so that you've got five different
00:41:12
teams with different skills that you can
00:41:13
go to so you've got multiple
00:41:15
relationships so we've just done things
00:41:17
that you can innovate you can change
00:41:18
this right right yeah
00:41:20
um now let's talk about some of the
00:41:22
viral stuff uh first of all do you do
00:41:24
right you you you're or them in the ACT
00:41:27
account in your account is um full of
00:41:29
good you do good memes is that you or is
00:41:32
it a social media person and
00:41:34
um some of them are my ideas some of
00:41:36
them aren't but the way that it works is
00:41:39
that um we get uh you know a good group
00:41:43
of people we create a good environment
00:41:45
where good people want to work and then
00:41:46
we make them happy working there and
00:41:49
some of the best stuff just happened you
00:41:51
know like stuff just emerges out of
00:41:53
unexpected circumstances and so there's
00:41:56
no magic we don't pay a person with
00:41:58
amazing skills to specifically do that
00:42:01
um you know we don't sort of say these
00:42:02
are your kpis
00:42:04
um if you try and make it a good place
00:42:06
to be good people come people have good
00:42:08
ideas and then it just sort of happens
00:42:10
organically so and that's why I say I
00:42:12
you know you say it's a place of
00:42:13
terrible bullying it doesn't have to be
00:42:15
yeah no I I suppose I was meaning rather
00:42:17
than behind the scenes more politician
00:42:19
to politician I think Winston Peters
00:42:21
like he's um he's a he said some
00:42:23
terribly nasty things about you and
00:42:25
others over the years even right down to
00:42:27
like um one one that stands Springs to
00:42:30
mind is um you know him uh criticizing
00:42:33
Simon bridges in the way he said China
00:42:35
like uh which is basically a speech
00:42:37
impediment right yeah but then I just I
00:42:40
just look at the numbers and you know
00:42:42
there's there's no politician in New
00:42:43
Zealand that has a more negative image
00:42:46
and that the polling is you know I mean
00:42:49
should have hired those numbers I'd get
00:42:51
another job you mentioned the [ __ ] thing
00:42:53
before
00:42:54
um so this was um this was when John Key
00:42:57
was looking at changing the flag and the
00:42:59
call was that the the fern on there and
00:43:02
you can you remember what you said well
00:43:04
yeah because they I was an armor was
00:43:07
Anne Romaine a red peaker I mean we
00:43:09
should have had red Peak as our flag
00:43:11
it's much better I thought the kiwi with
00:43:13
the laser eyes well okay you're like yes
00:43:16
ideally that one but if we couldn't have
00:43:17
that one then it would have to be okay
00:43:20
um red Peak and um
00:43:22
you know but I also was doing the thing
00:43:25
which I think is a bit Neff but a lot of
00:43:27
politicians used to do it where they
00:43:28
have the silver Fern on their lapel so
00:43:31
then some Juno asked me well you know
00:43:34
you how can you support red Peak you
00:43:35
clearly like the silver Fern because
00:43:37
you're wearing one
00:43:38
and I said yeah well look the French
00:43:40
love the [ __ ] but yeah it doesn't mean
00:43:42
they've got a rooster on their flag but
00:43:44
you don't actually have to have every
00:43:47
National logo on your flag the French
00:43:50
for instance love the [ __ ]
00:43:52
um
00:43:56
all right let's just start that again
00:43:58
and
00:44:01
um and then I I'd actually I actually
00:44:03
had a series of them because I thought
00:44:04
this argument might happen I said look
00:44:06
you know the IR the British don't have a
00:44:08
English don't ever Rose the Irish don't
00:44:10
have a harp you know you don't actually
00:44:11
have to have every single logo on your
00:44:13
flag
00:44:14
um that's all I was trying to say but of
00:44:16
course come on you knew what you were
00:44:18
doing right that was intentional totally
00:44:21
innocent really totally understand it
00:44:23
didn't it wouldn't I wouldn't dare say
00:44:25
such a profane thing actually we'll do
00:44:27
half a dozen journalists waiting with
00:44:29
microphones I mean yeah the the
00:44:30
soundbite that was used in the media
00:44:31
which is like 10 seconds or whatever
00:44:33
um that doesn't paint the full picture
00:44:36
but on YouTube you can watch the whole
00:44:37
thing afterwards and you you do struggle
00:44:39
to compose yourself after that which
00:44:41
made me think
00:44:42
um okay benefit of the doubt it was
00:44:43
accidental but then too good to be true
00:44:47
yeah but I mean are you being completely
00:44:49
honest of course of a politician
00:44:52
but of course look it it happened right
00:44:55
so if it it must be possible and if it
00:45:00
did happen however unlikely it seems it
00:45:02
did happen so okay so there was another
00:45:05
one
00:45:05
um
00:45:06
you were interviewed one summer years
00:45:08
and years ago by a staff reporter and
00:45:11
she asked what you did over summer and
00:45:13
you said Netflix and chill
00:45:15
um knowing knowing full well that it was
00:45:17
a reference to Casual
00:45:21
sexual right what were we trolling
00:45:23
people well it was but she well she was
00:45:27
out it was pretty boring interview and
00:45:28
she was asking what are you you know
00:45:30
good old Joe Moyer she's a good Journal
00:45:33
actually but um she's boring the state
00:45:35
yeah yeah yeah so well in that interview
00:45:37
she was but um what do you do for your
00:45:40
summer and I'm like you know to be
00:45:42
honest everyone wants to know all these
00:45:44
questions about Paul what do you do if
00:45:45
you're somewhere I would say well I
00:45:46
don't know like you know if you go and
00:45:48
get a mechanic you just wanted to fix
00:45:49
their car you're not like oh do you like
00:45:50
Boogie boarding or something who cares
00:45:52
you know but if you're a politician you
00:45:53
have to tell it tell them that too and
00:45:55
lastly what's your summer must read must
00:45:58
listen or must watch
00:46:02
just say Netflix and chill
00:46:10
yeah because most people have no idea
00:46:14
um well I didn't realize she she was
00:46:17
recording it and she she put the audio
00:46:19
on um so um what can you say
00:46:25
um but you you know what you're doing
00:46:26
like if I reckon you know what you're
00:46:28
doing it's calculated yeah there's a
00:46:30
degree of calculation to it surely
00:46:33
um I think there's a there's a degree of
00:46:35
sometimes you just got to have a bit of
00:46:37
fun yeah is that what you what happened
00:46:39
with the my there's a Miley Cyrus thing
00:46:40
as well that you were asked in an
00:46:41
interview someone you really admire and
00:46:43
I suppose people were expecting you to
00:46:44
say I don't know like Obama or Churchill
00:46:47
or someone but you said Miley Cyrus and
00:46:49
then went into a like a big explanation
00:46:51
about the the what she's been through
00:46:54
and how she is as a performer and that
00:46:56
was trolling right well there's a few
00:46:58
I've done where the explanation was was
00:47:00
made out of song titles I don't know if
00:47:03
it was one of those but I did actually
00:47:04
walk into a Miley Cyrus party while I
00:47:07
was door knocking but what's a Miley
00:47:09
Cyrus party well I don't really know to
00:47:12
be honest but they were all dressed as
00:47:13
her
00:47:15
um what what what phrase what what phase
00:47:18
Miley were they dressed as
00:47:20
I was about 2015. not the wrecking ball
00:47:23
face right when she was naked I think
00:47:24
she wasn't to the wrecking no they
00:47:26
weren't naked well not much so
00:47:31
um here not not really sure to be honest
00:47:33
I think that Miley Cyrus uh is someone I
00:47:36
can admire because she's good at her job
00:47:39
I mean her job is to get out uh get
00:47:41
publicity and most importantly sell
00:47:43
records uh and she's smashed so many
00:47:47
um records or broken so many records at
00:47:49
selling records uh at such a young age I
00:47:53
think you've got to admire someone on
00:47:55
top of their game like that and then
00:47:57
there was um this may have been pre or
00:47:59
these things an awkward series of like
00:48:01
Facebook videos where
00:48:03
um you started each of them by saying hi
00:48:05
and someone turned that into a into a
00:48:07
montage
00:48:08
um because you're high was exactly the
00:48:11
same in all of them same infection same
00:48:14
delivery same no no no that was all that
00:48:16
was all and that this was we didn't know
00:48:19
what we were doing so what happened was
00:48:21
this has been I first started standing
00:48:23
it was all one video
00:48:24
and when I first started standing in
00:48:27
2014 well wait it was all one video I
00:48:29
wasn't like a oh yeah a montage but in
00:48:31
2017 election our campaign team took it
00:48:33
off off YouTube so it's hard to get a
00:48:35
copy now but
00:48:37
um oh I found a thing on YouTube
00:48:38
yesterday someone's turned it into like
00:48:40
a 12-minute montage oh wow so it's you
00:48:42
saying hi over and over again for 12
00:48:44
minutes yeah so what was the story
00:48:45
behind that
00:48:47
so I had a maximum Canada who was
00:48:49
running for the conservative party up
00:48:51
there and I saw head Mater
00:48:53
video of you know this is who I am and
00:48:56
what I do so I thought
00:48:58
I should make a video like that
00:49:00
so I got this guy who actually had
00:49:04
trained as part of a Soviet film unit
00:49:06
and someone else is a fairly well-known
00:49:09
comedian who may or may not have been
00:49:10
taking the fish out of me but between
00:49:12
them they they wanted me to do this hi
00:49:14
hi hi hi hi I'm David Seymour and if you
00:49:19
live in Epsom Mount Eden parnella
00:49:21
remuera I'd like to be your MP hi hi hi
00:49:25
hi hi
00:49:27
hi I'm David Seymour and if you live in
00:49:30
ipsum Mount Eden hannel or remuera I'd
00:49:34
like to be your MP so I think it's only
00:49:36
fair I should introduce myself anyway so
00:49:39
we we made this video and the the the
00:49:41
the the editing was just out there man
00:49:43
like it was like sort of Soviet
00:49:46
avant-garde type you know crazy like you
00:49:50
know communist art
00:49:51
um and then the comedians sort of take
00:49:53
on it was it was pretty amazing and the
00:49:56
thing got like 50 000 views um in fact I
00:50:00
thought the first thing I realized it
00:50:02
was going viral someone sent me a stick
00:50:05
saying
00:50:06
um it doesn't matter what we still love
00:50:09
you and support you
00:50:11
um
00:50:12
so what the [ __ ] have you been drinking
00:50:15
so anyway then I found out this thing
00:50:18
was going absolutely nuts and you know
00:50:21
50 000 views on YouTube in 2014 because
00:50:23
there's inflation is everywhere
00:50:25
including on the internet so those are
00:50:26
huge understood being in New Zealand uh
00:50:28
so it was pretty but it was actually a
00:50:30
fantastic thing because it wasn't
00:50:31
intended to be funny it just was
00:50:34
um and of course it got me huge exposure
00:50:37
because the the tweeting classes the you
00:50:40
know journalists and politics all saw
00:50:42
this and it was all hilarious the latest
00:50:44
act thing
00:50:45
um so they all came and spent time with
00:50:48
me campaigning in Epsom so it just it
00:50:51
couldn't have dreamed better but none of
00:50:53
it was intentional so you sort of from
00:50:55
the school that um like any publicity is
00:50:57
good publicity like it's better that
00:50:58
people are talking about you than not in
00:51:00
terms of these things of a few
00:51:01
politicians that have just proven that
00:51:03
yeah
00:51:04
um look I think I think the thing is
00:51:06
like remember I suppose what I mean is I
00:51:09
mean yeah like you can think of like
00:51:11
David Benson Pope back in the day
00:51:13
Pokemon tennis balls on people's mouths
00:51:15
something like this where people are
00:51:17
laughing at you rather than with you
00:51:18
yeah
00:51:19
um well
00:51:21
look the way I look at some of the best
00:51:23
advice I ever got was from a comms guy
00:51:25
in Canada when I worked up there and um
00:51:28
he said he said look you know because of
00:51:31
the internet you can't pretend anymore
00:51:33
because the information the cycle is so
00:51:37
short the information travels so fast
00:51:39
that
00:51:40
um you know you will be found out so
00:51:42
just be authentic I have a terrible
00:51:44
memory so I don't pretend to do anything
00:51:46
I don't tell any lies because I if you
00:51:48
tell lies you've got to remember what
00:51:49
you said
00:51:50
um so it is and the world's I think
00:51:53
everything's bloody hard and complicated
00:51:55
enough so I just come back to a few
00:51:57
basic principles that basically I'm here
00:52:00
to try and shift you know activity out
00:52:03
of the government column and into you
00:52:06
know business and Civil Society you know
00:52:09
families and clubs and Charities and
00:52:11
people trying to help each other
00:52:12
voluntarily that's good people in
00:52:14
business trying to make a product people
00:52:16
wanted a price they can afford that's
00:52:18
good government there's some stuff
00:52:20
government can do not as much as it's
00:52:22
trying right now it's a pretty simple
00:52:24
mission right yeah that way you don't
00:52:26
have to remember a lot and that suits me
00:52:29
um
00:52:30
that's probably a good time to move on
00:52:32
to Dancing with the Stars oh always a
00:52:34
good time do you um you regret that or
00:52:36
no no regrets is that another thing like
00:52:37
these viral clips that was good an
00:52:40
example of any publicity to a degree is
00:52:42
good publicity
00:52:43
I just say one thing that um that I
00:52:47
think is probably
00:52:49
um like if I could just tell you one
00:52:51
thing I've learned from nearly nine
00:52:53
years in Parliament that you wouldn't
00:52:55
have thought is that none of it is as
00:52:59
orchestrated or complicated or clever as
00:53:02
people think like people think they must
00:53:04
be amazing people like pulling the
00:53:06
strings and it's all part of some grand
00:53:08
plan and you get these people say oh you
00:53:10
know the world economic Forum like
00:53:12
controlling everybody I'm like look mate
00:53:14
I got good news and bad news the good
00:53:16
news is the government's not capable of
00:53:18
participating in a global conspiracy the
00:53:21
bad news is they're not very good at
00:53:22
health education or building roads
00:53:24
either
00:53:25
um so you know most of it is is just
00:53:29
people winging it and you go it's true
00:53:31
and and this is what life is like I mean
00:53:33
you know when you're a kid you think
00:53:34
your parents are amazing and then you
00:53:36
start to get a few doubts and then you
00:53:37
think at least your teachers know you're
00:53:38
talking about and if you've ever gone
00:53:40
back and met one of your teachers some
00:53:41
of them are very impressive but some of
00:53:42
them are like Jesus yeah you were in
00:53:45
charge of my learning for a whole year
00:53:46
it's amazing I got here
00:53:48
um and then you think oh well people
00:53:49
politicians in Parliament well they must
00:53:51
know what they're doing I mean look how
00:53:52
much they get paid and they're in charge
00:53:54
and they vote and they go on TV I mean
00:53:55
they must know what they're doing and
00:53:57
then you get there and you're like far
00:53:59
out I'm just glad we still have running
00:54:01
water
00:54:02
but then you think oh well the ministers
00:54:04
the most senior ones they must know but
00:54:07
no and then
00:54:09
um I used to think that the Prime
00:54:10
Minister but then Jacinda became the
00:54:11
Prime Minister I thought you just need
00:54:13
to be good at Instagram so you know and
00:54:16
this is and it's the same with the with
00:54:18
the media I mean you think oh these must
00:54:19
be really intelligent people committed
00:54:21
to the truth really great at processing
00:54:23
information and and actually most of
00:54:26
them are just kids that like to gossip
00:54:28
at high school and now they do it for
00:54:30
for a living
00:54:31
um so you know that's your reality
00:54:34
um
00:54:35
and um you know the reason I I give you
00:54:38
that Prelude I just I do actually it's
00:54:40
it's interesting that we put far too
00:54:43
much trust in governance we we think
00:54:44
that it's more clever than it could
00:54:46
possibly be and I understand why people
00:54:48
think that but you know if you've ever
00:54:50
had a doubt that your parents or your
00:54:51
teachers or anyone else knew everything
00:54:52
maybe apply that to politicians too
00:54:55
the second thing is actually answer your
00:54:57
question about Dancing with the Stars
00:54:59
well it was as simple as it was November
00:55:02
2018 I just become the lowest polling
00:55:06
act leader in history which is pretty
00:55:08
[ __ ] good effort like I mean you know
00:55:10
it was good at low polling at that point
00:55:12
is it devastating for you at that point
00:55:14
you're thinking [ __ ] I'm done with
00:55:16
politics yeah you say you're pretty rude
00:55:18
at whatever happens and then you just
00:55:20
think well okay so how often in your
00:55:23
life just for for most people
00:55:25
what are the chances that you'd actually
00:55:27
get invited to be in a live televised
00:55:31
dancing contest like that doesn't happen
00:55:34
most of the time in most people's lives
00:55:36
but it did happen to me so you'd have to
00:55:39
be hell of an arrogant to to turn that
00:55:42
down I thought it was a great it'd be
00:55:44
wildly exciting you knew you'd be
00:55:46
eliminated on the first round right but
00:55:48
right but as it turned out well yeah it
00:55:51
went through nine rounds but I feel I
00:55:53
feel like there was a like a vote for
00:55:55
the worst or vote for the entertainment
00:55:56
value sort of thing you must you must
00:55:58
know you weren't you weren't great I was
00:56:00
the worst dancer probably not just not
00:56:02
just in that season and not just in New
00:56:05
Zealand but probably if there was an
00:56:06
All-Star Dancing with the Stars yeah
00:56:08
like Global you know like I mean it's
00:56:11
been going since 1994. it's probably the
00:56:13
worst ever but
00:56:15
um you know nevertheless the other thing
00:56:18
I learned pretty quickly is that it
00:56:20
wasn't about dancing
00:56:23
um of course not you know because the
00:56:24
entertainment show because they say they
00:56:26
say uh you know it's a combination of uh
00:56:29
of your of your ticks and the judge's
00:56:31
scores but they never tell you quite how
00:56:33
they add them together and being a
00:56:35
electrical engineer I actually asked I
00:56:37
said so just get out of Interest I'd be
00:56:39
really Keen to see the the mathematical
00:56:41
formula yeah I feel like there's a lot
00:56:42
of producers discretion yeah they just
00:56:45
kept me on the shoulder and said you'll
00:56:46
be fine
00:56:48
I was like oh okay so um so then I
00:56:53
realized that really it was about the
00:56:55
numbers but it was about the ratings and
00:56:56
we we needed to make sure that we were
00:56:59
compelling enough for people to keep
00:57:00
watching and and people did keep
00:57:03
watching and people did keep texting in
00:57:04
for us and we did you know you can see
00:57:06
the amount of money we raised we've got
00:57:07
a lot of ticks
00:57:08
um but the reason for all that was
00:57:10
simply that
00:57:12
um you know we were taking on challenges
00:57:16
that everyone faced and and doing it
00:57:18
pretty well you I mean you
00:57:21
but I still learned to all my steps and
00:57:24
I actually did do all my steps right
00:57:25
they're just not really with the kind of
00:57:28
style just flow or rhythmia right yeah
00:57:30
but I did actually learn and do each
00:57:32
step
00:57:33
um and we got bagged a lot and we
00:57:36
basically said to people well actually
00:57:39
we're doing our best we've got a right
00:57:40
to be here what's your problem and I
00:57:42
think for people that are being born
00:57:44
begged a lot by like um everyone
00:57:46
reviewers social media the judges I mean
00:57:49
Steve bronius wrote about me every week
00:57:52
for about two months the Creature from
00:57:54
the actual Lagoon and he he was
00:57:57
campaigning to get me voted off the show
00:57:58
and once he realized he'd lost that one
00:58:00
he started campaigning for me to win to
00:58:03
destroy the show forever
00:58:11
I think that's a bit demeaning to be
00:58:13
honest
00:58:14
um so we faced all that but as we said
00:58:18
to people look
00:58:20
this is you know the people are being
00:58:22
bullied in a variety of contexts you
00:58:24
know their work and their and their
00:58:26
school what when their friendships a
00:58:28
relationship whatever no we said to all
00:58:31
these people
00:58:32
um actually you know what we get that
00:58:35
too and we just carry dust ourselves off
00:58:37
and carry on because everyone's got a
00:58:39
right to to be them and to do their best
00:58:41
and I think that's what it was really
00:58:43
about it was about character and
00:58:45
adversity so once we figured that out it
00:58:48
was actually quite good the dancing was
00:58:50
still hard but the rest of it was pretty
00:58:51
easy and I was just lucky I had an
00:58:53
amazing partner yeah yeah that's right
00:58:56
yeah I'm going to it
00:58:57
next month you're still in touch she
00:59:00
actually invited me to a wedding scene
00:59:01
she must have been like when the dancers
00:59:03
find out who they're paired with and you
00:59:05
do the first thing
00:59:07
she told me that yeah well it sort of
00:59:10
helped because it helped you get time
00:59:12
off work because her boss didn't think
00:59:13
she'd be gone well she's a teacher yeah
00:59:15
yeah yeah yeah yeah no no she um
00:59:18
apparently all the dancers were like
00:59:19
look I hope get that guy
00:59:21
but they get paid week by week so they
00:59:25
obviously want to be paired with a
00:59:26
dancer that's going to go unless they
00:59:28
got me then they just didn't care about
00:59:29
the pay anyway they wanted to get voted
00:59:30
off but no but as it turned out it
00:59:32
became a very uh powerful
00:59:35
um Alliance and she was the only person
00:59:37
I think I mean there's a lot of good pro
00:59:39
dancers there but she was the only one
00:59:42
with the strength and conviction to make
00:59:43
that work so it was lucky I we were both
00:59:46
Lucky on that sense and it worked out
00:59:48
really well was she frustrated with you
00:59:49
early on you've also got a real close
00:59:51
friendship now and it ended up pretty
00:59:52
well finishing fifth but early on yeah I
00:59:56
mean I'm guessing you wouldn't have been
00:59:57
as available as some of the other people
00:59:59
it's like my ex-wife JJ did it and
01:00:01
Mike's co-host um Clint Randall he he
01:00:03
did and they were they were dancing like
01:00:04
seven or eight hours a day yeah I mean
01:00:06
crazy time when I when I in in my season
01:00:10
um the the only only me Chris Harry
01:00:14
Chris Harris who's a legend really um
01:00:17
but Harry
01:00:18
um he actually had a job
01:00:21
um and and I obviously had a job
01:00:23
um but most people no disrespect to
01:00:25
radio hosts you know they they had you
01:00:29
know three hours on here and some prep
01:00:31
but they they wouldn't have maybe five
01:00:33
days a week but they weren't doing you
01:00:35
know a job that's often 24 7 and fitting
01:00:38
on their practice so so that's you know
01:00:39
okay there's a bit of a bit of a
01:00:41
stability
01:00:42
yeah but I mean you know but so so look
01:00:46
there was um it was it was well worth
01:00:48
doing in the end and the other thing it
01:00:51
did for me is it made me really positive
01:00:52
about New Zealand because
01:00:55
um you know people say This Tall Poppy
01:00:57
and I think there is a dark underbelly
01:00:59
to this country but we also showed that
01:01:01
if you just broke through the barrier if
01:01:04
you be yourself and back yourself then
01:01:06
actually people do want that and they
01:01:08
will back you and that was pretty cool
01:01:10
that it really changed my view of New
01:01:13
Zealand for the better yeah do you think
01:01:15
tall poppy is still a big issue here
01:01:16
totally yeah 100 it's it's the biggest
01:01:19
problem we Face terrible is it just is
01:01:22
it just a kiwi thing or an australasian
01:01:24
thing or is it a universal thing oh
01:01:25
Aussies are totally different you know I
01:01:27
mean the the Aussie I mean there's a lot
01:01:29
of things I dislike about them and
01:01:31
obviously and I just just before I say
01:01:33
this say look there's a wide there's
01:01:35
some complete [ __ ] kiwis and there's
01:01:36
some wonderful Aussies and vice versa
01:01:38
but if you just take the sort of average
01:01:40
stereotype there's there's some things
01:01:42
that to really dislike about the
01:01:45
Australian version of that I mean the
01:01:46
attitude to race for instance is just 20
01:01:49
years behind us at any given time
01:01:50
however there's also some wonderful
01:01:54
things about the Australians that are
01:01:56
positive they're competitive they they
01:01:58
believe and and that you can make a
01:01:59
difference in your own life
01:02:01
um and that's I think part of the reason
01:02:03
that they're dramatically wealthier
01:02:05
um there's other reasons too but but I
01:02:07
think that attitude does actually help
01:02:08
so and you see it when New Zealand just
01:02:11
try and do business over there you know
01:02:13
it's bloody difficult I mean Michael
01:02:14
Hill's done it good on him Legend most
01:02:17
people that have tried to succeed in
01:02:18
business in Australia have fired yeah
01:02:20
the warehouse failed quite drastically
01:02:21
yeah yeah yeah
01:02:24
um
01:02:25
they said the twerking thing who's on
01:02:27
dance with the stars who said he was
01:02:28
that Emilia's idea was that your idea
01:02:30
you twerked you wore like a fluoro
01:02:32
outfit and you twerked it got turned
01:02:33
into a gif I went viral it's probably on
01:02:36
YouTube now yeah um a memorable TV
01:02:38
moment well I think I think the show
01:02:40
tried to set us up that week
01:02:43
um because the song that we had uh was
01:02:46
actually
01:02:48
um you know I think it was pretty gross
01:02:49
Outlet outfits and the the Spandex and
01:02:53
all that and the song was I just want to
01:02:55
make you wet
01:02:57
um CNC music yeah they re they re-did it
01:03:00
as sweat but um Amelia was really pissed
01:03:04
off so we thought we're just going to go
01:03:05
hundies here she was pissed off why
01:03:07
because of the song Choices so it's not
01:03:09
well it's pretty I mean a lot of women
01:03:10
would be offended by by being major you
01:03:13
know publicly danced to that song
01:03:15
um and um
01:03:17
then um you know that was so that was a
01:03:20
that was a problem and our solution was
01:03:22
to go Handy's and overcome it and
01:03:24
there's also don't be susceptible to
01:03:26
flattery um because for the first and
01:03:28
last time of my life uh some of the
01:03:30
women on the show said you've got a
01:03:31
great butt never happened before since
01:03:34
was entirely designed to flare me into
01:03:36
doing it and
01:03:38
so that I took the bait and it was
01:03:41
probably the one time because remember I
01:03:42
had to I had to do enough to make it
01:03:46
um kind of appealing
01:03:49
um but but and keep us in the ratings
01:03:51
and keep us in the order in the show but
01:03:53
also not do so much that I've ruined my
01:03:55
chance having a future political career
01:03:58
the Member of Parliament for Epsom or is
01:04:01
it Miley Cyrus
01:04:02
[Music]
01:04:05
to confirm this is X leader David
01:04:08
Seymour last night Deep In His Latest
01:04:10
dancing with the star's routine one
01:04:13
heavy on twerking a racy dance move made
01:04:16
famous by singer Miley Cyrus the rules
01:04:19
of the competition say they give you an
01:04:21
outfit and a song and a and a style of
01:04:23
dance that off you go uh and I think we
01:04:26
did a pretty good job keeping it classy
01:04:27
under the circumstances well it's like
01:04:29
we were talking about before to a point
01:04:31
where no publicity is bad publicity
01:04:32
probably yeah did you a lot of good
01:04:34
really that was probably the one time
01:04:36
that maybe just went further than I
01:04:38
really needed to and
01:04:40
um you regret it uh yeah look I mean I
01:04:42
wouldn't say I regret it I'd say that's
01:04:44
a bit strong I'd say in a perfect world
01:04:46
would probably were to pull back from
01:04:48
that
01:04:49
um but you know we got it right most
01:04:50
weeks
01:04:51
um you know you get to get a few
01:04:53
mistakes on the big jobs so
01:04:55
um but yeah I mean they you know the TV
01:04:58
news would run that every time there was
01:05:00
a story about me for like for like two
01:05:02
years
01:05:04
um and it probably took a while to
01:05:05
overcome it um it was probably um yeah
01:05:08
funnily enough Rodney Hyde who was also
01:05:11
an act party leader didn't he drop his
01:05:12
dance palette yeah there was the clip
01:05:14
they used yeah the crystal yeah yeah yes
01:05:16
I I didn't do any lifts with Amelia and
01:05:18
I think she's probably appreciated that
01:05:20
yeah so were you guys um were you guys
01:05:22
seeing each other for a time or am I
01:05:23
making this up you weren't seeing each
01:05:24
other a lot a lot of people have rumored
01:05:26
that but right and you can understand
01:05:28
the holiday I thought you went to Fiji
01:05:29
or something afterwards uh well yeah we
01:05:31
we did go away but separate Bureau yeah
01:05:34
exactly and and people easily I think if
01:05:38
you haven't danced then people say but
01:05:42
actually it's just you have to be close
01:05:45
not just physically but emotionally
01:05:47
because it's it's you two against the
01:05:49
world
01:05:51
um so for like three months you sort of
01:05:53
fight the world together
01:05:55
um and most of the time the distance
01:05:57
between you is about 5 five millimeters
01:05:59
so you can understand if you've never
01:06:01
done it you'd be like oh wow but of
01:06:04
course um you know if you have danced
01:06:06
you know that it's just part of the game
01:06:08
if you're in a relationship you have to
01:06:09
have a very trusting partner wouldn't
01:06:10
you at home because it could be I mean
01:06:12
that that'd be hard like imagine you're
01:06:14
married and your your wife your
01:06:16
hypothetical wife's got a friend saying
01:06:17
oh God what about David and yeah it'd
01:06:20
have to be very very tough I think for
01:06:22
um your married couples yeah yeah
01:06:24
potentially I don't know
01:06:26
was there sexual chemistry with you guys
01:06:28
like early on and then that sort of
01:06:30
evaporates when you get to know each
01:06:32
other and
01:06:34
um like I said it's very intimate like
01:06:36
that yeah you make you meet someone in
01:06:38
your training and you're in each other's
01:06:39
faces no what's your reverse she'd been
01:06:42
doing her whole I mean she started that
01:06:43
I mean all those guys that are good like
01:06:45
Amelia and and the other thing I loved
01:06:48
about it was watching people like her
01:06:50
because they used to do dances for
01:06:51
display that were just the professionals
01:06:53
and when you watch how they dance like
01:06:55
it's it's amazing so so they learn a
01:06:58
routine so quickly as well oh yeah
01:07:00
because it's all just for them it's just
01:07:01
a bunch of modules that they've got down
01:07:03
here right so so they've all been doing
01:07:05
it since that's six so to them it's just
01:07:07
business as usual
01:07:08
um for me I was like wow
01:07:13
um but I I got used to that very quickly
01:07:15
so yeah it's just it it honestly is this
01:07:17
that the weirdness of dance yeah
01:07:20
um okay so you turned 40 this year yeah
01:07:22
well no I'm I refuse to acknowledge it
01:07:25
no I do middle of this year and you've
01:07:27
been um you've been the ACT leader for
01:07:29
five years now um how's the next 10
01:07:31
years no no no no longer than that so
01:07:33
I've since I was 31. also like nine
01:07:36
years yeah I didn't have nine years so
01:07:38
what are your what are your what are
01:07:40
your absolute goals in politics for like
01:07:42
what are your aspirations you want to be
01:07:43
ideally have a Winston situation and end
01:07:45
up like Deputy Prime Minister of the
01:07:47
selection what's
01:07:48
definitely not because
01:07:51
um you know the first thing you say is
01:07:52
what what position or what title do you
01:07:54
want I I'm not interested in a position
01:07:56
or title I mean anyone that thinks being
01:07:58
like a big wig in the government of New
01:08:00
Zealand is just delusional and I think
01:08:04
part of the reason I think that is you
01:08:05
know I lived in North America I lived in
01:08:07
Canada for five years there's like 60
01:08:09
States and provinces that are around the
01:08:12
same size sometimes much bigger than New
01:08:14
Zealand and they all have a government
01:08:16
and like if you meet someone and you're
01:08:18
like yeah I'm like from the government
01:08:19
of Colorado I'm really cool you just be
01:08:22
like you're a dick well you know New
01:08:24
Zealand I mean Colorado's got five
01:08:25
million people in New Zealand's Got five
01:08:26
million people you're still a [ __ ]
01:08:28
right so it's not about that
01:08:30
um but the doors that it could open
01:08:32
afterwards from holding one of those
01:08:34
High positions maybe but I just I mean I
01:08:37
don't know I haven't had a political
01:08:38
career and tried to find a job but
01:08:41
um oh yeah but
01:08:42
um you know I I guess
01:08:46
um you know if someone's hiring you for
01:08:49
your name or your title
01:08:50
what are you going to do the best advice
01:08:53
I'm I've talked to people about you know
01:08:55
what what if you do if you leave
01:08:56
politics because eventually I will I'm
01:08:57
not a lifer and I said look the best
01:08:59
advice I got from a chief executive a
01:09:01
big firm he said look you've got to make
01:09:03
sure you're in the scrum
01:09:05
uh you know actually doing some work
01:09:06
don't don't want some things you've got
01:09:07
a title on you I mean so I don't believe
01:09:09
in that I believe in being in the scrum
01:09:11
the second thing is so so that's not the
01:09:14
answer your question let me tell you
01:09:15
what is
01:09:17
um a couple of things I want one is I
01:09:20
want to turn act into a going concern
01:09:22
and by I mean
01:09:24
a party bigger than me that will Outlast
01:09:26
me so I can retire and go home cast my
01:09:29
vote and vote for a party that believes
01:09:32
in personal freedom uh that believes in
01:09:35
free markets and free Minds I'm a
01:09:37
capitalist but I'm also tolerant I'm not
01:09:39
interested in having the government you
01:09:41
know Chase around pregnant women trying
01:09:43
to stop them having abortions I'm not
01:09:45
interested in a government that tries to
01:09:47
regulate what you can say I'm not
01:09:49
interested in a government that tries to
01:09:51
impose one person's values on another
01:09:52
that's all crap in my mind but I'm also
01:09:55
not interested in a government tries to
01:09:56
regulate and take all your money because
01:09:58
I've seen how politicians use your money
01:10:00
and I think they should have a lot less
01:10:02
now you know it's very rare that there's
01:10:04
a party like that but I want to I want
01:10:06
to turn well act as that party and I
01:10:08
want to make it outlive me so I have
01:10:10
someone to vote for the rest of my life
01:10:11
so that's number one number two uh
01:10:15
before my own time comes and it will I
01:10:18
mean you know unless you're Saddam
01:10:20
Hussein well actually you can stick
01:10:22
again but yeah but yeah I mean your time
01:10:25
will come by your own choosing or look
01:10:28
you don't get to choosing politics right
01:10:30
you hope so and some people do but um
01:10:32
you just don't know what will happen
01:10:35
um so you know the other thing is I
01:10:38
there's a few policy things I think
01:10:40
education probably first and foremost I
01:10:42
don't think that we are transferring
01:10:45
enough Knowledge from one generation to
01:10:46
the next to maintain first world status
01:10:49
I mean kids coming out of school now and
01:10:52
this is you know measured objectively
01:10:54
know and can do far less in reading and
01:10:57
writing and maths and science than kids
01:11:00
coming out of school in the year 2000. I
01:11:02
mean how everything is we're used to
01:11:03
everything getting better and this is
01:11:04
really not good and I talk to people who
01:11:06
you know just had kids think about I'm
01:11:08
going to go to school because people
01:11:09
have got kids at school grandparents
01:11:11
basically anyone
01:11:13
is who's vaguely related to a kid at
01:11:16
school is really worried and so are a
01:11:17
lot of teachers so we've got to get our
01:11:20
respect back from the teaching
01:11:21
profession and I think with that game of
01:11:24
policy debate I mean basically
01:11:26
government needs to start saying these
01:11:29
are the non-negotiables that kids need
01:11:31
to achieve and then stop all the
01:11:33
bureaucracy and the middling and say
01:11:35
look we're actually going to have
01:11:36
respect for teachers and principals and
01:11:37
give them the flexibility to go and
01:11:39
achieve it that's in a nutshell what
01:11:41
needs to happen and and that's hard
01:11:43
because you're up against a big
01:11:44
bureaucracy who will try and outwit and
01:11:46
outsmart you but that's that's roughly
01:11:48
what we did with Charter Schools yeah
01:11:49
and I see more of that theme and I think
01:11:51
it's it's the most important thing we
01:11:53
can do for what 30 years time so New
01:11:56
Zealand in 2053
01:11:58
what's the thing this year that we'll
01:12:00
wish we did and that is make sure that
01:12:02
we have the most educated population
01:12:03
because then every other problem we face
01:12:05
and who knows what the problems will be
01:12:07
in 2053 people are well educated we can
01:12:09
deal with it so that's education form
01:12:11
that's a big thing I think also
01:12:14
um
01:12:14
I think we have to have a another mini
01:12:18
revolution around the way that we make
01:12:20
laws and regulate you know too many
01:12:22
people spend too much time waiting for
01:12:25
permission to be able to do stuff I met
01:12:28
a young person recently she's a dentist
01:12:32
she's starting her own Clinic she's
01:12:34
learning about business she's hiring
01:12:36
people she's working out you know who to
01:12:37
hire who to trust how it all works but
01:12:40
the problems that she's had even just
01:12:44
um getting permission to remove a
01:12:46
chimney from the you know because
01:12:48
because this brick chimney is like New
01:12:49
Zealand's history like if this goes we
01:12:52
won't know who we are anymore and it's
01:12:54
just [ __ ] right I mean it's just
01:12:56
it's unbelievable yeah um and it's like
01:12:58
when you go to Europe and you see
01:13:00
churches over there and you're like oh
01:13:01
the cathedral in Christchurch isn't even
01:13:03
that old I mean they must come down here
01:13:04
and think you preserve that [ __ ] like
01:13:06
really like I mean that's not even
01:13:09
lately you know but I mean you know it's
01:13:13
not just a historic places that's an
01:13:15
issue but
01:13:17
um it's people like you're trying to get
01:13:19
financial advice you know the poorest
01:13:20
people can't get financial advice
01:13:22
because to be a financial advisor you've
01:13:24
got to jump through so many Hoops so
01:13:25
what's worse poor people getting
01:13:27
occasionally dodgy Financial advice or
01:13:29
poor people having no rung on that
01:13:31
letter to a better financial future and
01:13:34
I'll give you examples of them in
01:13:35
building houses you know getting
01:13:37
Financial advice from running Schools
01:13:38
running into daycares I mean everyone is
01:13:41
tied up in rules and regulations and
01:13:43
it's not making us wealthier it's it's
01:13:45
keeping a lot of people in jobs
01:13:46
enforcing all this crap but it's holding
01:13:49
us back and I I so I'm quite Keen to to
01:13:53
do some some serious change right down
01:13:56
at the ground level of of of how
01:14:00
government makes rules and regulations
01:14:01
because right now every politician just
01:14:04
says when in doubt make a rule you're
01:14:05
off scot-free politicians need to be
01:14:07
held accountable for making bad rules
01:14:08
and that's that's another policy topic
01:14:10
we'll go further into but geez I just
01:14:12
looked at the clock we've been going for
01:14:13
an hour and a quarter I told your press
01:14:16
person that would be an hour are you
01:14:18
okay for time yeah yeah yeah no no it's
01:14:20
Friday afternoon
01:14:21
um and we can't lose another prime
01:14:23
minister this week so it's all good
01:14:26
um
01:14:27
all right what's your relationship like
01:14:28
with alcohol at the moment um there's
01:14:30
another clip that we've been a little
01:14:31
bit viral if you're on Election night
01:14:32
last time uh champagne on Election night
01:14:35
you um it was the biggest night ever for
01:14:37
it so you you did have calls to
01:14:39
celebrate but you seemed a little uh
01:14:40
Tipsy and slurry
01:14:41
um and it came out afterwards that you'd
01:14:43
been alcohol-free for a couple of years
01:14:44
or something and uh you had two
01:14:45
Champagnes and they went ahead I wanna
01:14:47
thank
01:14:48
the people of New Zealand around 200
01:14:53
000 new zealanders who have put their
01:14:56
trust and act and would like this
01:14:59
genuinely independent team of fabulous
01:15:02
act MPS to work for you
01:15:05
yeah I was a bit more than that um
01:15:07
no a couple of Magnums what happened was
01:15:11
um because I was thought about how we're
01:15:13
going to do this night we'll make an
01:15:14
entrance so I called a very good mate of
01:15:17
mine probably enough someone from kids
01:15:18
line he's got a boat and I run about and
01:15:21
I said what do you reckon is it possible
01:15:23
that we could actually drive to the HQ
01:15:27
Leo malloy's bar
01:15:28
um in your boat
01:15:30
and this is like two weeks out from
01:15:32
actually he's like don't worry about it
01:15:34
I'll make it happen see you there
01:15:36
um so it's good to have friends like
01:15:37
that and uh so he sorted it out I met
01:15:41
them there
01:15:42
and then a couple of other mates
01:15:46
um and then we started driving but
01:15:48
actually you've got to go around such a
01:15:50
long way to get to the viaduct or
01:15:53
whatever yeah and and flitch is a great
01:15:55
guy but you know a few years back he did
01:15:57
a Skipper's license and he's just anal
01:15:59
about this I was like no no five knots
01:16:01
over 200 meters
01:16:06
yeah and like people are calling they're
01:16:09
like oh TV's really like are you coming
01:16:11
I'm like yeah yeah meanwhile
01:16:15
Meanwhile my good mate Tom he's on the
01:16:18
he's on the back of the boat opening
01:16:20
another bottle of moon and I'm just like
01:16:22
oh [ __ ] so it took about 20 minutes we
01:16:25
absolutely saddled by the time he got
01:16:27
there so um so um in any case uh that
01:16:31
that but I'm not avoiding it your wider
01:16:34
question but basically
01:16:36
um there's something Muldoon said you'll
01:16:38
drink more and more
01:16:39
um when you get to this place and you
01:16:42
think about it um you go and have lunch
01:16:45
and you probably shouldn't have beer
01:16:46
everyone and then you know you get to
01:16:49
six o'clock and the bells ring and you
01:16:51
go out and there's some Lobby group or
01:16:53
something putting on a function and it's
01:16:55
an open bar and then the bells ring
01:16:58
again you've got to be back in your
01:16:59
office you're not allowed to leave till
01:17:00
10
01:17:02
um and you know you've got to fridge and
01:17:04
you think well what you have one more I
01:17:06
mean it's only Tuesday at 10 o'clock and
01:17:09
you've already had five or six beers
01:17:12
um and you you haven't had Friday or
01:17:14
Saturday so you can easily end up you
01:17:18
know having 40 or 50 drinks a week
01:17:20
without even thinking about it so I got
01:17:22
to that point and the biggest measure of
01:17:24
it was um at my Peak I was 86 kgs when I
01:17:28
quit drink dancing took off about seven
01:17:30
and then and then then I quit drinking I
01:17:32
got down to about 72 I think so I
01:17:36
calculated that my at my Peak my body
01:17:39
mass was actually 18 Heineken wow so
01:17:43
um you know I I and it was the best
01:17:46
thing I ever did it gave me enormous
01:17:48
energy lost huge amounts of weight saved
01:17:51
a huge amount of money because also not
01:17:53
it's not all free
01:17:55
um and just I suppose the extra hours
01:17:56
you have and you know the extra product
01:17:57
of hours absolutely you know you don't
01:17:59
spend much time actually doing the
01:18:00
drinking and then you wake up an hour
01:18:02
earlier feeling fresher so
01:18:03
um gives you back two hours a day on
01:18:05
average so so all of that was was just
01:18:07
fantastic
01:18:09
um but then
01:18:10
um you know I get a lot of abuse from my
01:18:13
staff people are worried about bullying
01:18:14
buying MPS I'm worried about bullying of
01:18:17
MPS by this stuff and they all started
01:18:19
saying I was a robot so
01:18:23
um oh really because you weren't
01:18:24
drinking well yeah yeah yeah and I just
01:18:26
thought well you know you make the
01:18:28
occasional exception so so now I maybe
01:18:31
drink once or maybe twice a week but
01:18:34
probably more ones right right because
01:18:35
you did an interview and you see you had
01:18:37
a like a rule a while ago that um you
01:18:39
only drank if it was a champagne
01:18:40
function which to me to me reading
01:18:41
between the lines I read is like being
01:18:43
polite so if there's trash champagne's
01:18:45
for a toaster yeah yeah yeah yeah so so
01:18:47
but if you've got this ability to
01:18:50
um regulate your drinking you're like
01:18:51
clearly you don't have a drinking
01:18:52
problem no you can stop no and I don't I
01:18:55
don't think I did I I think I I think I
01:18:57
had a lifestyle where that was sort of
01:19:00
normal almost
01:19:02
um but also it's a it's an interesting
01:19:05
question isn't it because I
01:19:07
I I was I was comfortably performing my
01:19:09
job but I wasn't reaching my potential
01:19:11
and so I quit on the 1st of January 2019
01:19:15
and you know by the end of the year
01:19:18
x-polling was polling for two or three
01:19:20
MPS for the first time in a decade and
01:19:23
then the following year in 2020 we got
01:19:25
the best result the party had ever had
01:19:27
so it's definitely performing better
01:19:29
then I mean I wasn't necessarily
01:19:30
performing badly before us when we
01:19:32
reelected and doing my job and showing
01:19:33
up and all that
01:19:34
um so yeah it's interesting question of
01:19:36
you know is it just affecting your
01:19:38
ability to do your job or affecting your
01:19:40
ability to reach your potential and but
01:19:43
then you know sub USA as a robot so now
01:19:46
I'm in a sort of slightly more a a
01:19:49
smoother equilibrium yeah it's strange
01:19:51
the the pressure to drink though it's
01:19:53
got to be the only drug in the world
01:19:54
like if I started wrapping up lines of
01:19:56
coke now I wouldn't be like why aren't
01:19:58
you having one come on have one have one
01:20:00
some people would
01:20:02
um you know well yeah although I gotta
01:20:05
say I I think it's interesting that the
01:20:07
drinking culture is just improved this
01:20:10
is another one of these things if you
01:20:12
look at the amount of bench drinking and
01:20:13
the amount of alcohol that people
01:20:15
consume in New Zealand it has been
01:20:16
falling off a cliff for 40 years even as
01:20:19
there's been more advertising even as
01:20:21
there's been more product Choice people
01:20:22
are getting more sophisticated and and
01:20:25
more thoughtful and and the and the
01:20:27
breweries and vinters or whatever having
01:20:29
to sell more interesting products
01:20:32
instead of just competing on price and
01:20:34
volume so it's a great example of how in
01:20:37
a free Society we get to a better place
01:20:40
than we're used to and all these idiots
01:20:42
you know alcohol healthwatch I mean
01:20:43
they're a bunch of Muppets
01:20:45
um they don't know anything you know but
01:20:47
but they're and you know Chloe
01:20:49
swarbrick's got this bill to ban alcohol
01:20:51
advertising but not from the America's
01:20:52
Cup because she's from Auckland Central
01:20:54
which is outrageous
01:20:56
um you know it's it's actually a really
01:20:58
good example of what happens in a free
01:20:59
society and when I first quit at the
01:21:01
start of 2019 I go up to people and you
01:21:04
know ask if I can have any non-alcoholic
01:21:06
beer and they looked at me like I'd just
01:21:09
gone up and said you know I'd like to
01:21:10
try and learn how to put my own dick in
01:21:12
my ear
01:21:13
um and you know I do that oh well well
01:21:16
um you know not on cold days anyway but
01:21:19
um
01:21:21
and uh but but but you know now
01:21:26
basically everywhere you go has a zero
01:21:29
alcohol selection yeah yeah and I was at
01:21:31
a supermarket the other day they've got
01:21:33
a whole aisle of um zero or a whole sort
01:21:36
of shelf of alcohol free um drinks so I
01:21:40
just looked the way the culture's
01:21:41
evolving is fantastic yeah and there's
01:21:43
zero beers they actually taste quite
01:21:45
good now they're really sort of like
01:21:47
perfected the the recipe oh yeah I mean
01:21:49
Heineken zero is very good
01:21:51
um some of the others are a bit syrupy
01:21:53
or a bit watery but yeah Heineken zero
01:21:55
is great and how's your how's your
01:21:57
mental health been over the years have
01:21:58
you been mostly good for you
01:22:01
um you know it's an interesting question
01:22:03
again because
01:22:06
I didn't really have a reference frame
01:22:07
and and some people will be able to
01:22:09
relate to this that they're in such an
01:22:11
unusual position
01:22:12
because like you know how how should you
01:22:14
feel being the you know first person to
01:22:17
enter Parliament by themselves in
01:22:20
several decades there's no template for
01:22:23
that
01:22:24
um so you know certainly there were some
01:22:27
really really tough times especially
01:22:30
after the 2017 election tough times in
01:22:32
terms of what like loneliness or
01:22:35
um well you know it's it's it's
01:22:37
difficult when you have a bad result
01:22:39
because you sort of lose every argument
01:22:41
because he would just say oh we're not
01:22:42
vote for you and the thing is they're
01:22:45
right
01:22:46
come back it's like a public record yeah
01:22:49
and you can't say oh I wasn't trying to
01:22:51
get votes to them what the [ __ ] were you
01:22:53
doing you know so
01:22:55
um so so
01:22:57
um yeah that that was a that was a
01:23:00
pretty morose sort of a time
01:23:03
um but I definitely think and in a way
01:23:06
it's connected to the quitting dream
01:23:07
because I mean one thing about it is you
01:23:09
know you um
01:23:12
algol produces enzymes I forget that
01:23:15
that also make you anxious us so you
01:23:17
wake up tired and anxious that's not
01:23:19
gonna help oh anxiety yeah it's a real
01:23:21
thing and you get less stuff done I
01:23:23
forget the chemicals but yeah this is
01:23:24
totally real and and you get less stuff
01:23:27
done so you're not achieving it don't
01:23:28
have much full momentum so that that's a
01:23:30
real problem too
01:23:32
um so so there's a there's a bunch of
01:23:33
issues there that you know alcohol and
01:23:36
mental health and I think so John
01:23:37
kerwin's really good on this uh
01:23:39
connecting those
01:23:41
um but I also think that you you know
01:23:43
ultimately uh while the uh real serious
01:23:47
mental health issues and people should
01:23:49
get help and and we need to do a lot
01:23:52
better at people getting help sometimes
01:23:55
you actually do just have to decide for
01:23:58
yourself that you're going to make a go
01:23:59
of it because one of the things that
01:24:02
I've seen you know being involved in
01:24:04
kids Zion or lifeline and around that
01:24:07
scene and and seen a few people involved
01:24:09
in it is that you know there's always a
01:24:12
danger that it starts to take on its own
01:24:14
momentum and that can be a real worry
01:24:17
because all of a sudden it sort of you
01:24:21
know mental health issues become a topic
01:24:24
in themselves yeah you need to get help
01:24:26
though a real problem but you also need
01:24:28
to know what you can control and how you
01:24:31
can move on that's just as empowering
01:24:32
yeah because you you've gotten a bit of
01:24:34
trouble a few years ago for
01:24:36
um basically saying what you said now
01:24:37
but less eloquently you said people that
01:24:40
are depressed need to harden up or
01:24:41
something no no something like that no I
01:24:44
didn't say that what was it exactly you
01:24:46
got in trouble for something there was a
01:24:47
bunch of kids that this was about seven
01:24:50
years ago there's a bunch of kids at Vic
01:24:51
Uni and they're I'm pretty sure they're
01:24:53
at a warehouse which is the most
01:24:55
exclusive Hall to be an advocate and um
01:25:00
they were going on about all their
01:25:02
problems and I've got to go to ex
01:25:04
lectures and study and sort of exams and
01:25:07
I've got to work on I've got depression
01:25:09
and anxiety
01:25:10
and I listened to the whole you know
01:25:14
every whinging grievance and I said well
01:25:17
maybe you need to harden up but they
01:25:18
interpreted it as as addressed at their
01:25:21
depression anxiety comment whereas it
01:25:24
was really targeted the fact that they
01:25:25
were just chronic Wingers about every
01:25:27
aspect of their life
01:25:29
um but of course that got Lost in
01:25:31
Translation yeah of course
01:25:32
um yeah it was a Sensei sensationalism
01:25:34
isn't it but you never you never said
01:25:36
when you were working for youth line you
01:25:37
never told anyone to harden up
01:25:40
um well no but I mean listen I I I agree
01:25:44
fully with what you're saying and I
01:25:45
think like nobody you need to look after
01:25:48
yourself nobody's coming for you and if
01:25:51
you have a true chemical imbalance in
01:25:52
your brain then it probably needs to be
01:25:54
rectified with medical intervention but
01:25:55
otherwise there's like a lot of things
01:25:57
you should try for yourself first try
01:25:59
having cold showers try a sting off the
01:26:00
alcohol try staying of social media yeah
01:26:02
and if if you still feel like crap after
01:26:04
doing all these little changes for your
01:26:07
own good 100 and look I mean one you
01:26:09
know the first thing anyone's going to
01:26:10
describe you as cognitive behavior
01:26:12
therapy which is about you know
01:26:14
challenging negative perceptions
01:26:16
challenging the idea that what's bad is
01:26:19
you know personal pervasive and
01:26:21
permanent and saying well actually is
01:26:23
that really true or is this you know a
01:26:25
one-off or something you could do
01:26:26
something about so you know you're on
01:26:29
Solid Ground there that actually I I
01:26:32
think we we need to acknowledge the
01:26:34
problem but also have a bit more you
01:26:37
know you can do something about this and
01:26:39
you do have choices and so on I know
01:26:41
some people are coming how dare you
01:26:42
Amara well actually no there's you know
01:26:45
you say there are people with genuishes
01:26:46
and you do need medical help but
01:26:48
um there's also a lot of scope for
01:26:50
making the most of making every post a
01:26:52
winner yeah absolutely
01:26:55
um
01:26:56
what are you most proud of do you think
01:26:57
it's the end of the end of life though
01:26:59
oh and career-wise I mean to realize
01:27:01
career-wise I am proud of the end of
01:27:02
life choice X
01:27:04
um but I'm much more proud of the X team
01:27:07
and uh the culture that's evolved there
01:27:10
I mean we've brought in nine people new
01:27:12
to politics and made some very high
01:27:14
performing MPS you know Brooke Van
01:27:15
velden being the the obvious standout
01:27:18
amongst those but
01:27:19
um you know also Karen and Nicole and
01:27:21
Mark and others too have done a really
01:27:23
good job so uh we put I'm I'm proud of
01:27:27
of having LED that team it could have
01:27:28
gone a number of ways but I think we
01:27:29
created a great culture
01:27:31
um the other thing that I'm probably
01:27:33
more proud of is is actually charter
01:27:35
schools you know we decided that the
01:27:38
most impoverished communities in New
01:27:39
Zealand should who are getting nowhere
01:27:41
in education should have the opportunity
01:27:44
to come up with their own ideas and run
01:27:46
their own schools their way so long as
01:27:48
they achieve those outcomes attendance
01:27:51
and achievement and they did
01:27:53
um and you know the biggest people out
01:27:55
there say with these poor Brown
01:27:57
communities why would you give them a
01:27:58
chance well actually the most important
01:28:01
thing we can do and um I'm in one of
01:28:04
them a girl and her name was literally
01:28:06
hope she came up to me at the Vanguard
01:28:08
military school and she said I never
01:28:10
knew I was smart until I came here
01:28:13
I thought this is extraordinary you know
01:28:16
because because kids basically assume
01:28:19
that what they're born into is normal
01:28:21
like Civil War and Mogadishu you know
01:28:23
living on the Upper East Side of New
01:28:25
York I mean they both think that their
01:28:26
life is normal
01:28:28
um and um
01:28:30
as a result you know if you give them a
01:28:34
bad environment they'll internalize it
01:28:35
yeah well we changed our environment she
01:28:37
internalized that she was actually smart
01:28:39
amazing and so we did that hundreds if
01:28:43
not thousands of times through charter
01:28:45
schools and unfortunately you know
01:28:47
Jacinda ardern who said she wanted to
01:28:49
put children at the center of everything
01:28:51
closed down 12 small experimental
01:28:54
schools in order to to do what to to
01:28:59
satisfy the demands of the teacher
01:29:01
unions who didn't want any competition
01:29:03
it's just it's totally outrageous but
01:29:05
I'm very proud of what we did there
01:29:07
because it's not over we have shown the
01:29:11
proof of concept and we will do that and
01:29:14
we will allow so many more kids to to
01:29:17
say again I never knew how smart till I
01:29:20
came here and actually reached their
01:29:21
potential oh that's good because it must
01:29:22
be the most frustrating things whatever
01:29:24
your political persuasion is having like
01:29:27
parties reverse what you've done that's
01:29:29
got to be the most eye-rolling annoying
01:29:32
irritating thing yeah yeah but that's
01:29:35
that's politics I mean look they won the
01:29:37
election that was their agenda um the
01:29:40
thing is I I don't think you can stop a
01:29:43
good idea in the long term and I predict
01:29:46
you know in my lifetime every school
01:29:48
will be a charter school in the sense
01:29:50
that it will be autonomous its principle
01:29:53
will have the power to lead their
01:29:55
teaching staff and do it their way they
01:29:58
will have to get certain outcomes in
01:29:59
return for taxpayer money people with
01:30:02
new ideas we've got to start new ones
01:30:03
ones that lose all their students will
01:30:05
lose all their funding and be taken over
01:30:06
and run better you know sooner or later
01:30:09
those ideas will come to pass because we
01:30:12
just can't afford to do what we're doing
01:30:13
yeah it's it's just it's just destroying
01:30:16
kids potential yeah well Einstein had a
01:30:19
quote the definition of Madness is doing
01:30:21
the same thing over and over and
01:30:22
expecting a different result so you need
01:30:23
to try something different Diane yeah he
01:30:25
was smart so yeah
01:30:26
um one thing I've learned from doing
01:30:27
this um this podcast a year now is that
01:30:30
um everyone's everyone's carrying around
01:30:32
their own load everyone's carrying
01:30:33
around like a bag of [ __ ] and it's just
01:30:34
how big the bag of [ __ ] is what what is
01:30:37
it for you regrets guilt shame what is
01:30:40
that what's what what's the what's the
01:30:42
what's the load that you're carrying
01:30:43
around
01:30:44
I hadn't really thought about that
01:30:47
um it's probably a lot of opponents but
01:30:51
um yeah maybe just in Life or work or
01:30:53
general
01:30:54
no I nothing to speak of
01:30:56
no I mean I'm sure that like you say
01:30:59
people could identify uh mistakes I've
01:31:02
made and so on but I mean maybe it's
01:31:04
just my personality that I don't see the
01:31:07
point I mean I'm interested in what I
01:31:09
can do what I can change what I can make
01:31:11
better
01:31:12
um and by definition you can't change
01:31:15
the past so I don't really well on that
01:31:18
a lot I I don't I don't see the point I
01:31:20
mean if there's the way I would frame it
01:31:23
and think of it slightly differently is
01:31:26
you know what have I been able to to
01:31:30
learn from the past uh well many things
01:31:34
um you know for example
01:31:36
um you know people treat you about as
01:31:38
well as you treat them
01:31:40
um and if you invest in being a good
01:31:43
person to others you'd be amazed at the
01:31:45
way they pay you back in unexpected ways
01:31:48
um so you know there's a lot to be said
01:31:50
about for that
01:31:52
um you know I think probably I've been
01:31:55
on a big Journey about
01:31:57
um
01:31:57
understanding you know that while you
01:32:01
may have interesting policy
01:32:03
prescriptions and act has always been a
01:32:04
policy heavy party in a democracy they
01:32:07
have to be chosen in a political
01:32:10
Marketplace and and that's always a real
01:32:12
risk is that people won't choose your
01:32:17
policies if you don't meet the market
01:32:18
and chunk them down in a way that is
01:32:22
deserving of people's attention sure and
01:32:24
that's why we didn't do very well for
01:32:26
the first three or four years because we
01:32:28
had the engineering department was going
01:32:30
gangbusters but the sales department
01:32:31
wasn't so good
01:32:33
um so you know those are things I've
01:32:35
learned and do better now but I don't
01:32:37
sort of walk around saying oh so
01:32:39
terrible you know you know it didn't
01:32:42
didn't put enough evidence to retail
01:32:43
politics for the next four years or so a
01:32:45
bag of [ __ ] I'm going around it's just
01:32:46
it's just a thing it's a thing that
01:32:49
happened and I you know we're better at
01:32:51
it now yeah you learn oh and that's
01:32:52
that's I think failures are something
01:32:54
that needs to be embraced I used to be
01:32:56
like just um petrified by failure I add
01:32:58
to the to the detriment of my own life
01:33:00
because wouldn't try things because I'd
01:33:01
fail but now I embrace it more because I
01:33:04
realize um yeah failures are good things
01:33:06
where you the most growth takes place
01:33:08
um well has there been like a rock
01:33:10
bottom in your life what would rock
01:33:11
bottom to I mean if you get to 39 40 and
01:33:14
you haven't experienced anything too bad
01:33:15
I think you're bloody lucky
01:33:17
[Music]
01:33:19
but it's how you think of it so yeah
01:33:21
you're more just a glass half full kind
01:33:23
of guy um well I mean I probably
01:33:25
mentioned civil in that 2017 election
01:33:27
was all right like so so getting down to
01:33:29
half a percent I mean only 13 000 people
01:33:32
Nationwide you know voted in fact when
01:33:34
that's everyone hates you pretty much
01:33:45
um so so that's that's pretty rubbish
01:33:48
um but
01:33:50
you know we reacted and fixed it and now
01:33:52
we're doing better
01:33:54
um and stuff like that will happen again
01:33:56
um but yeah I've just sort of scraped a
01:33:59
bit I mean I I stayed in my job in
01:34:01
Canada for for too long I had a great
01:34:03
first two years I stayed for a second
01:34:05
two years just out of inertia and
01:34:08
probably what's inertia uh just not
01:34:11
being movable comfort zone yep exactly
01:34:14
and probably a bit of misplaced loyalty
01:34:16
to my then employer
01:34:19
um so you know there's a a few things
01:34:22
like that but I mean now you know you
01:34:24
just gotta move the dial a bit and think
01:34:26
a bit more about number one
01:34:28
um if you don't like what you're doing
01:34:30
get out so just do something about it
01:34:32
yeah so you know again you could um you
01:34:36
could certainly could certainly say that
01:34:38
was a terrible too much it was time and
01:34:39
it wasn't fair and paid enough in a
01:34:42
horrible place and I you know didn't
01:34:43
feel I could move and I was a victim but
01:34:45
who needs all that yeah I think you can
01:34:48
choose a lot of people I think choose to
01:34:50
be a victim because um you know it's a I
01:34:52
suppose it's an easy dopamine getting
01:34:54
that sympathy from people or people
01:34:55
saying I'll poor you yeah um but why
01:34:57
would you go with that stuff so you
01:34:58
leave the egg pad you know give me some
01:34:59
of these say yeah
01:35:00
the boats on the beach what's the um
01:35:03
well I promise we'll wrap this up in a
01:35:05
second what's the what's the biggest
01:35:06
surprise people get when they meet you
01:35:08
like what do people say
01:35:10
well
01:35:12
um there's a there's a couple of things
01:35:14
and I just try to work out
01:35:16
um people say you're much shorter than I
01:35:18
thought is that so now this is good this
01:35:21
is good because you see their perception
01:35:24
of me if I've only seen me on TV or in
01:35:27
pictures
01:35:28
is that they think of me as a tall
01:35:29
person taller than I am in reality I
01:35:32
think the problem is if people say I'm
01:35:34
surprised you're so tall then in their
01:35:37
mind you're a short person so so so this
01:35:40
is this is good
01:35:42
um is it good to be a tall politician
01:35:44
does it matter statistically absolutely
01:35:46
I mean I don't think there's ever been a
01:35:48
US president like less than six foot
01:35:49
they're always tall right
01:35:51
um maybe if you go back to like FDR but
01:35:53
um There Was 80 years ago
01:35:55
um
01:35:56
they're all tall you know so
01:35:59
um Lincoln must have been really tall
01:36:01
with that top hat on well yeah and and
01:36:03
remember everyone else was short then so
01:36:05
he must have been a monster you know
01:36:07
Civil War is probably doing
01:36:09
reconnaissance by just standing there
01:36:12
um so so that helps the other people say
01:36:14
you're better looking in person which
01:36:17
I'm not sure what to make of it
01:36:19
but that seems like a backhanded by the
01:36:22
by the logic of the previous one
01:36:26
um what they're saying is that in my
01:36:28
mind in their mind I'm an ugly person so
01:36:31
right but but I better look again
01:36:34
uglier than I am in reality which is
01:36:36
pretty ugly so
01:36:37
um who knows but um those are two things
01:36:40
people say yeah that's interesting what
01:36:42
is your relationship status at the
01:36:43
moment is it something you talk about or
01:36:44
not really just
01:36:46
married to Parliament really yeah what's
01:36:48
the longest relationship you've had
01:36:50
two and a half years right right you've
01:36:52
been in love you must have said I love
01:36:54
you you've been in love before oh yeah
01:36:56
but I mean obviously it didn't work out
01:36:58
did it well I mean most relationships I
01:37:00
guess run their natural course don't
01:37:01
they for whatever reason yeah yeah I
01:37:04
think that's true I mean funnily enough
01:37:06
I um
01:37:07
one of the things I do as a local MP I
01:37:10
sign cards to people that are having a
01:37:13
golden or even diamond wedding
01:37:14
anniversary there's an astonishing a
01:37:16
number of people that have made it that
01:37:18
far like 50. uh diamonds 16. Golden's 55
01:37:22
and 60. yeah I mean is it going to be um
01:37:25
are you obviously eventually I guess
01:37:27
want to get married and potentially have
01:37:29
kids
01:37:32
has the bar for you been set
01:37:34
particularly High because you aspire to
01:37:35
have something like your parents had
01:37:36
which which presumably would have been
01:37:39
um you know till death do us part yeah
01:37:41
isn't that interesting hey like I I mean
01:37:43
it's not scientific but I noticed my
01:37:45
friends whose parents separated have
01:37:47
often actually been a lot better at
01:37:50
finding a partner and making their
01:37:52
relationships work is that right yeah
01:37:54
and that's that's just my anecdotal
01:37:56
evidence which may just be a fluke
01:38:01
um so who knows maybe maybe it's
01:38:03
actually harder if your parents had a
01:38:05
good relationship but
01:38:07
um yeah speculating there yeah or do you
01:38:09
just are you going to clone your way
01:38:11
through life you like being the the
01:38:12
single guy
01:38:13
George Clooney I think it's I think
01:38:16
being a single he was single to like 54
01:38:18
wasn't he and then he I think I think
01:38:19
being a single guy is probably better
01:38:21
when you're like George Clooney
01:38:24
um but I could be like you and um is it
01:38:26
Brad Pitt or um no DiCaprio yeah yeah
01:38:30
he's got that Sawtooth graph every time
01:38:32
they get to 25. yeah yeah yeah
01:38:35
um oh okay we'll wrap this up um but
01:38:38
running though like we we joked about
01:38:40
this in the start do you do you have a
01:38:41
relationship with running at all are you
01:38:42
a runner I used to love running
01:38:45
um and I used to love the cross country
01:38:47
uh at school everyone hated the school
01:38:50
crossover I love the cross country
01:38:51
because we're up in whangarei on the
01:38:53
outskirts of the town so we'd run
01:38:55
through the forest I got lost ones I
01:38:57
went to one of my old teachers funerals
01:38:59
and they'll talk someone was saying is
01:39:01
the among many other things he lost
01:39:03
David Seymour in the bush but he found
01:39:06
me too so
01:39:07
um
01:39:08
he it was uh I used to love that I I
01:39:11
don't really run now uh just because my
01:39:13
knees aren't that great and funnily
01:39:14
enough uh munted one of them and dancing
01:39:17
with the stars and I munted another one
01:39:19
hyper extended it in the um in the uh
01:39:23
basketball so I actually swim now so I
01:39:26
go to the New Market Olympic in the
01:39:27
morning
01:39:28
um do a few hundred meters there and I'm
01:39:31
I'm terrible at it but this is great and
01:39:33
and sometimes people say oh I could help
01:39:34
you with your Technique I say no no I'm
01:39:36
doing it for exercise you make me more
01:39:37
efficient I have to swim further to get
01:39:39
the same exercise
01:39:43
is that all you do you don't go to the
01:39:45
gym or anything because you look like
01:39:45
you're in you look like in pretty good
01:39:47
shape you just got a good diet and you
01:39:48
obviously don't drink too much yeah I um
01:39:51
when I was in sixth and seventh form I
01:39:54
was obsessively Jim bunny so I was go go
01:39:57
to the gym twice a day I was taking
01:39:58
creatine before anyone knew what it
01:40:00
would do
01:40:01
um and um I I got up I mean I I could
01:40:04
bench over 100 kgs
01:40:06
um even though I weighed under 70. so I
01:40:09
actually had a pretty good run
01:40:12
um you know back then I don't know if
01:40:15
I've got any muscle memory but that was
01:40:17
the the last time I didn't exercise
01:40:19
anyway aside from swimming all right and
01:40:22
um so it's a election year this year um
01:40:24
what do you think is going to happen
01:40:25
crystal ball gazing is um is uh
01:40:28
Christopher luxon and National going to
01:40:29
win now
01:40:30
I mean anything can happen on a
01:40:31
political year can't it but I can
01:40:33
guarantee you after the last couple of
01:40:36
years no one party will will win right
01:40:39
um so so no Christopher bucks
01:40:42
International will not alone uh win the
01:40:45
election no party will I think the the
01:40:47
odds on uh you know right now speaking
01:40:50
to you on what 20th of January
01:40:52
um actor National you know have a have a
01:40:54
clear lead in the polls and clear
01:40:56
momentum in the polls but politics just
01:40:58
changes so quickly so you have a new
01:41:00
labor leader we don't know how they'll
01:41:02
perform
01:41:03
um you know Chris himself is that okay
01:41:05
so far but it isn't really gone through
01:41:07
a campaign it's his first campaign so he
01:41:09
could do very well he could do not say
01:41:11
well he might just sort of oh about
01:41:13
where he is now don't really know
01:41:15
um and then
01:41:16
you've just got events I mean you've got
01:41:18
to remember you know this idiot Putin
01:41:21
could decide to use a nuclear weapon uh
01:41:24
and NATO could decide to go into Ukraine
01:41:26
you could have
01:41:28
um you know the city that she decided to
01:41:30
try and reunify by crossing the Formosa
01:41:34
straight and invading Taiwan I mean all
01:41:37
of that stuff could happen
01:41:39
um and then there's just questions
01:41:40
around you know around this economic
01:41:42
roller coaster so look at all these
01:41:44
people refixing their mortgages
01:41:46
I like to think that inflation will
01:41:48
disappear as fast as it came along and
01:41:50
there's some good reasons to think that
01:41:52
if you look at container shipping prices
01:41:53
gone through the floor maybe that's a
01:41:56
good thing China re-entering the world
01:41:58
economy I think will be ultimately
01:42:00
deflationary because they'll demand a
01:42:02
lot of stuff but they'll produce even
01:42:03
more and they'll also spend a lot and
01:42:06
stimulate the economy globally so you
01:42:09
know the economic conditions might
01:42:10
improve but I think they're probably
01:42:11
still be bad and then the question is
01:42:14
well who do labor pick as their leader
01:42:15
and I suspect that it'll be very
01:42:18
divisive and they'll get a union rep
01:42:20
forced on them by their crazy leadership
01:42:23
selection system and
01:42:26
um that added all together
01:42:28
it will all cancel out and will be about
01:42:31
where we are now with acts being about a
01:42:33
quarter maybe a third of a government
01:42:34
and uh and the Nets being the rest of it
01:42:37
and David Seymour potentially is um I
01:42:39
know it's not your motive or your
01:42:41
motivation but particularly prime
01:42:42
minister yeah I mean look we've said
01:42:44
we'll take the take the position if the
01:42:47
policies are right but you know smart
01:42:49
people when they go for a job they ask
01:42:51
well what will I be able to do in this
01:42:52
job you know that's that's the question
01:42:54
uh and if you know the job is basically
01:42:58
you get the title but but the National
01:43:00
Party won't agree to the kinds of
01:43:01
policies we think New Zealand needs why
01:43:04
become a salesperson for your opponents
01:43:06
so
01:43:07
um that all remains to be seen but what
01:43:10
I do know is if you like ax values it
01:43:12
should give us your party vote because
01:43:13
you know I know people try and over
01:43:15
complicate it but it really is as simple
01:43:17
as that if we if vote your values with
01:43:19
your party vote and vote for act and
01:43:20
then thanks for your support at the last
01:43:21
election well David Seymour thank you
01:43:24
very much for your time thoroughly
01:43:25
enjoyed it you're not so much of an
01:43:26
arrogant pricker after all are you oh
01:43:28
that's very kind of you to say it's been
01:43:30
a real pleasure chatting for you Don
01:43:31
good really appreciate your time and
01:43:33
best of luck for the rest of 2023 I hope
01:43:35
it's a massive year for you and app
01:43:37
[Music]
