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Max Key - The politics of growing up || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey

February 19, 202301:41:51

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hey Runners only with dime Harley

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Runners only with dom Harvey and Max Key

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g'day mate how's it going going great by

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the way um thank you very much um you're

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dressed almost as the same colors as my

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neon sign yeah thank you I got the memo

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on that one so I appreciate it how are

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you how are you today I'm good very good

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yeah yep working hard cool uh how old

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are you now what are you 27 27. yeah

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because I was thinking about you how old

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were you when you when your dad became

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prime minister when we first saw you on

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stage with you know the the big wide

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eyes in front of the cameras for the

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first time looking really startled how

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old were you then

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um I was year nine so I think I was 14

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30 or 14. right do you have much memory

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of that what do you what do you remember

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about that first of all what do you

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remember about the like the lead up

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before that so you know your dad's

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successful in business you find out he's

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running for prime minister what does

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that mean to you as a 12 13 year old

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um I just say anything I kind of

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when you're 12 you don't really

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understand the gravity of anything and

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you know he'd always talked about being

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prime minister and it was always

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something he'd like really wanted to do

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and ever since I can remember so we

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moved back to New Zealand when I was

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year three and he became the um National

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Party oh he became a member of the

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national party then for helensville

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so pretty much since I can remember he

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was always in Parliament so

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for me I guess I just grew up with it so

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it didn't feel that weird or that big

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and yeah suppose what I mean is like you

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can't sort of understand what it means

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exactly like oh I had no chance to be

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prime minister no and it was it

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literally wasn't until I have a very

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clear memory of I was like 20 I think

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and we went it was my final trip that I

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did with Dad as prime minister and we

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went to um China on an official trip and

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I'd gone there like four or five times

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before and it was the first time we were

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sitting in the Great Hall of the people

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I'm pretty sure with the Chinese Prime

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Minister

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and I remember sitting there and you

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know we're with some like very

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established people in the Chinese

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government and you know all of Dad's

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team it was the first time I sat there

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and I was like wow I've literally been

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learning about this guy in economics at

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Uni and

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I was sitting there going like it was

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the first time ever I was like whoa like

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because you know when you're 12 to 20

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you just grow up with it you know it all

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felt in a weird way quite normal like I

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guess when we got rid of the security

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um you know that felt weird for me well

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that's right because you had cops living

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on a camper van on your driveway yeah

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for 24 7 for like 10 years of my life so

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for me when they left it was weird

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because for me like I grew up with

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always I think for my parents and my

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sister they're a bit older so I think

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all of that felt quite weird to them

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whereas for me I just got so accustomed

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to it like none of it felt weird it just

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kind of felt like that that was just how

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it always was amazing what's it you look

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back now and what sort of like awesome

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perks were there like did you like did

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you meet the queen I've saw some photos

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of you with the All Blacks and things

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like that yeah I mean the really cool

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things like uh during the World Cup

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Final in 2011 we got to go to the

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changing room like after they won and

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that was epic you know it was like a 15

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year old that was like the coolest thing

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ever I suppose you could just say to

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your dad like oh I want to meet that you

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know someone's in town say I don't know

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Ash is in town you say Dad can we meet

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our show and you can probably make it

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happen you probably could I mean I just

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I feel like none of us either like

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abused the privilege right like you know

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they're always stories going around that

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people would be like oh Max Key said do

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you know who I am but I just never did

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that like I I feel like my whole family

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felt quite not embarrassed by it but

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almost anything that could have been a

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perk we tried to like statically I

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suppose you have to don't you because

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yeah well they're just focusing is

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almost abusing the power in a way sort

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of yeah and I just think that there'd be

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things that like I would find really

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embarrassing like say he picked me up

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from school and you know the police

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would be outside and pull up right up

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front and I'd be like oh God whereas

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some people go oh you're so lucky you

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get this whereas in my head at the time

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I didn't see a lot of the perks as perks

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and to me of course not yeah like you

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just want to be normal I guess and fit

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in I guess yeah and I think the hard

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thing was everyone would see stuff like

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the World Cup or when we met the queen

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but to me I only got to see my dad every

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three weeks and you know he constantly

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got beat up in the media and at the end

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of the day like people might disagree

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with what he did in his policies and you

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know it's politics you know you're going

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to have polarizing you know opinions on

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you oh of course yeah but for me like

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it's hard seeing when people feel like

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that and so I would have traded any of

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the perks to not have to go through all

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that stuff yeah man there's there's so

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much of that that I want to get into

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um especially the fake news stuff

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involving you like people's New Mexico

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do you know who I am I want to get into

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all of that but first of all I want to

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go I want to go I want to go right back

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so we were you born in New Zealand or

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the UK no I was born in Singapore

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Singapore really random yeah is that

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where your dad was working at the time

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yep he'd been there for like eight

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months and then I got born and then we

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were there for

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probably a year and a little bit right

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and then we moved to London and I was

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there for five years and then we came

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back to Sydney for a year and then to

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New Zealand

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so I mean you don't know you don't know

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any anything different so I don't know

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this is probably a dumb question that

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you can't even answer but what was it

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like being like brought up in like a

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rich family no no not rich rich I think

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when your dad became prime minister who

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the paper city was worth like 50 million

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and so Elon Musk wouldn't even bend over

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to pick that up that's right but it's a

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it's a lot of money yeah like like good

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upbringing nice upbringing well when did

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you realize you were from a like a

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wealthy family

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I know this Probably sounds really bad

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but not until I was probably like 20. oh

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okay dad you know both were raised in

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state homes and they had really tough

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upbringings and so I obviously lived in

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a nice house and went on nice holidays

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but mum and dad never like handed me

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cash like you know I worked at

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McDonald's for four years like when Dad

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was prime minister you know I was always

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hustling to like try and make my own

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money and I think I was very much like

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wanting to do my own thing in the world

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and you know Mum and Dad yeah they

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always looked after me and provided me

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and gave me a good education and you

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know I'm not going to sit here and act

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like I was anyway struggling you know

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and that's since the word but mum and

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dad weren't the kinds of parents where

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they just flicked us cash and if I went

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oh Mom I want a PS5 that you know I

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never had a good to wait till Christmas

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even then you know like they just

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weren't the kinds of parents that just

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handed us everything and I'm really at

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the time you know it because I did go to

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you know like kings in a nice school and

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there were lots of kids that got treated

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like that

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oh gotcha okay that makes sense so

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because I was thinking from from my

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perspective so I was um I was um growing

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up in Palmer's North in the 80s and it's

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like I'd go to a friend's place and I'd

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look I could tell the friend was richer

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than me because they had like appliances

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that I didn't have like a VHS or a

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microwave or whatever or nicer after

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school snacks yeah but do you ever do

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that you went to your friend's place and

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you're like oh they don't have as nice a

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fridge as us but see now but see the

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thing you got to remember is

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that whole period where you're like

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cognitive enough to notice that Dad was

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prime minister and sir he didn't even

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have a car and we did nothing flashy

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because his whole tenure as prime

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minister there was this whole criticism

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that he was really rich and he didn't

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understand other people so during that

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period they never spent money like we

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never did anything lavish you know

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obviously the house was really nice but

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they bought that in 2004 yeah I remember

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your dad like before he became prime

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minister

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um saying he was donating all his prime

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ministerial sellers yeah it's do you

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feel like the tides changing because I

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know exactly what you're saying and it

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was like um I feel like there's two two

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camps of people there's a smaller Camp

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of people that are like [ __ ] this guy's

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done well for himself he'll be a good

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prime minister yeah then there's a whole

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lot of other people like oh God he's

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done well for himself [ __ ] him yeah I

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feel like it's swinging a bit though

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don't you more towards the positivity

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side of things than the tall poppy or

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not so much I mean I think tool poppy

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syndrome in New Zealand is really bad

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um and it's a shame I do think at the

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moment with how the economy is going I

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think this people that are starting to

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sit there and go

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you know we navigated the global

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recession last time and came out you

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know we're probably one of the strongest

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countries you know in the world

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economically after that

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so I think there are people now that are

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starting to be grateful

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um I just think there's a lot of

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politicians that go in that you know

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they've never actually worked

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and I just don't think they actually

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understand like how the economy works or

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you know I'm obviously young so you know

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I'm not sitting here saying I know you

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know everything myself but

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I just think yeah a lot of politicians I

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think a lot of them aren't actually

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they're for the right reasons and a lot

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of them are just career politicians yeah

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you know I think that's where I really

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respected dad was you know he went and

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did it and he walked the talk and you

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know you talked to him he's a genius

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with markets and he understands all that

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stuff and you know I think he was the

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best person for the job at that time so

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I think there are people now that start

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you know they're starting to realize

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that and

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you know as I said politics is so

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polarizing you know say you had a

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million dollars and you put it into

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curing cancer there's going to be

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someone whose mum died of you know some

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other disease or had a brain tumor and

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then they're going to go well why aren't

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you funding that or you know everything

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you do it's it's yourself up

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discretionary of course yeah well it's

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not Zero Sum like if you do one thing to

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help one person it's at the cost of yeah

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the opportunity cost of not helping

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someone else and so you know if you

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raise tax you piss business owners often

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you anger some people and but you help

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you know so you constantly it's I think

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it's a one industry where it's very very

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difficult to make people like you oh

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impossible even look at the situation

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now with um Jacinda ardern like she went

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from being the most loved and respected

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prime minister and now now that things

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are getting a little bit tight for

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people and mortgage rates are going up

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and the cost of living crisis

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um you know the the um the Halo is

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getting a little bit tarnished like

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everyone turns on you eventually in

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politics don't they well I think and

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that's why I think Dad timed leaving at

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a really good time you know he left when

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he was super popular and I think as you

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said

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you know that tide is Shifting where

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people really respect him I think they

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realized he wasn't in it for the ego and

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he wasn't there just to be loved forever

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and he didn't overstep his kind of Mark

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I think

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to me he's always said to me like a good

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Trader knows you know when to hit the

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bid and at the same time to me that's

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always just resonated like there's

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always a right time to make the decision

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you've got to move fast and you've got

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to do what you think's right yeah and

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for him I think he felt like he had got

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us through the recession and you know

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that was what he was really interested

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in and yeah everyone talked about it

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being a rock star economy here in New

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York yeah it was the phrase that was

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used yeah so um yeah

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I I loved your dad as prime minister

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from a uh the perspective of a

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commercial radio broadcaster like he'd

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come in for a chat he'd be up for

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anything and that was something that he

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did get quite a bit of you know

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criticism for I guess in his time like

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people would call him a goofball or

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whatever yeah did you did you ever like

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tell your dad off like oh all the time

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yeah

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but like all the time and that's what

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I'm meaning like imagine you're 15 and

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like Dad's doing all and everyone's like

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oh you must have thought it was so cool

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I was sitting like this is so

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embarrassing like you know I'm just

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trying to fit in at high school and I

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had dad doing like

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I don't know

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the Christmas thing with you guys oh

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yeah that was a shocking it's like a

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Christmas song I mean um there was one

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thing which I I was a little bit unfair

00:11:04

uh the like the ponytail thing yeah

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um yeah they've had a little mean Spirit

00:11:09

anyway but if like I said the flip side

00:11:12

of that

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um what was what was he like with you I

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I'm guessing like you said lost your dad

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for like a a really crucial and

00:11:18

important decade of your life yeah well

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I mean I'm sure he would have been there

00:11:22

as much as what he could but yeah I

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think that's where I have like

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conflicting views on it you know there

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was a phase a few years ago where

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I don't know if resentment's the right

00:11:33

word but you know I did feel kind of

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angry at him because you know my sister

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moved away and you know it was just me

00:11:38

because while he was prime minister or

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yeah yeah you know and so for me it was

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like I did find it really hard and I

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think what I found really tough was it

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was I found it hard talking about my

00:11:48

mental health because you know it's like

00:11:49

first question on here you're saying oh

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what's it like being a rich kid and what

00:11:52

was it like this and that's the scrutiny

00:11:54

I'm constantly under so then when I sit

00:11:55

there and go oh I had a tough upbringing

00:11:57

our culture's so like oh but you lived

00:11:59

in a big house and you got toys but to

00:12:03

me it's like

00:12:04

that doesn't make you happier if

00:12:05

anything I think finding happiness is

00:12:07

harder because you have a lot of the

00:12:09

things that most people spend their life

00:12:10

just trying to achieve but when you've

00:12:12

got that all you actually have to find

00:12:13

purpose and but it's hard to sit there

00:12:15

and complain about that because people

00:12:16

go why I'm sleeping in my car and you're

00:12:18

like well you're true yeah

00:12:20

so it's I found it really complicated to

00:12:24

ever talk about it because say I sit

00:12:26

there and go I had a hard upbringing

00:12:27

because I I think I did have a hard

00:12:29

upbringing not in a I feel sorry for

00:12:31

myself but it was a very complicated

00:12:33

upbringing I mean everything I did was

00:12:35

in the media I was constantly

00:12:36

scrutinized by people

00:12:38

you know if I put everyone was trying to

00:12:40

see my downfall and I was a young kid

00:12:42

young boy and I made mistakes and

00:12:43

everything I did got massively publicly

00:12:46

kind of oh and a magnified in a big way

00:12:49

and um I mean the only argument I think

00:12:51

that people could put up as well if you

00:12:53

don't like it don't put yourself out

00:12:54

there but it's like here you are you're

00:12:55

a teenage boy you've got an Instagram

00:12:57

account big [ __ ] deal so does

00:12:59

everyone else the same age and that was

00:13:00

kind of because everyone turned and said

00:13:02

well you elicit the attention but

00:13:04

actually what happened was they were

00:13:05

writing all that stuff before I even had

00:13:07

an Instagram or before I did anything

00:13:09

and I got to a point where it was all

00:13:12

happening anyway so I got to a point

00:13:14

going I didn't choose this like I'm just

00:13:16

in this so then I was like why may as

00:13:18

well just do what I want to do and I got

00:13:20

to a point where it was not like

00:13:22

rebellious but I was kind of like [ __ ]

00:13:23

you I'll do what I want like and so I

00:13:25

just started doing everything I enjoyed

00:13:27

and then you know I was like I want to

00:13:28

be a DJ so I went and you know did that

00:13:30

and everyone sat there and went you're

00:13:32

eliciting the attention but

00:13:34

it was kind of one of those things where

00:13:36

it was happening anyway so I got to the

00:13:38

point where I was like you kind of

00:13:39

damned if you do damned if you did yeah

00:13:40

so I was like why don't I use it to my

00:13:42

advantage yeah sure you know and so

00:13:45

I don't know

00:13:46

I really want to get into this because

00:13:48

it's it's like it is really unfair and

00:13:50

I've got firm opinions about that like

00:13:52

um I think politicians get get it they

00:13:55

um it's a brutal business brutal um like

00:13:57

Helen Clark before your dad like there

00:14:00

was constant speculation about her and

00:14:02

her husband and about him being a beard

00:14:03

and being a fake relationship or

00:14:05

whatever

00:14:06

um when when your dad left there was

00:14:08

there was some rumors rumors going about

00:14:10

him having an affair with one of his

00:14:12

politicians and your mum basically said

00:14:14

the job on me now I think it's even

00:14:16

worse for Clark gave it it's like oh

00:14:18

yeah there's the thing about the nanny

00:14:20

and people were on WhatsApp to me saying

00:14:21

it's true here's a picture of her and

00:14:23

I'm like yeah as much as we're all like

00:14:25

this to be true because it's so

00:14:26

salacious it's probably not and then the

00:14:29

home detention thing it's just oh yeah

00:14:30

that's Relentless but I think um I I do

00:14:32

think that's unfair because they're just

00:14:34

public servants but when it when it

00:14:36

starts impacting the kids as well I

00:14:37

think that's a Next Level sort of

00:14:39

situation yeah what was interesting

00:14:40

about kind of Dad's time as prime

00:14:43

minister was we were the first

00:14:45

family almost in the world where social

00:14:49

media was a thing so social media came

00:14:51

in when I was

00:14:53

year 13 so 2012.

00:14:56

and that was kind of dad gotten in 2010.

00:14:59

oh no sorry 2008.

00:15:01

and so we were kind of that first

00:15:03

generation where there was a prime

00:15:05

minister with kids my age

00:15:07

where social media existed because with

00:15:09

Helen Clark you know social media and

00:15:11

exertion of kids the last New Zealand

00:15:14

family that had kids was Jenny Shipley

00:15:15

right yeah and that was way before

00:15:17

Myspace in bibo yeah way before then so

00:15:20

so yeah the only International

00:15:22

comparison I can think of off the top of

00:15:23

my head is probably like Obama that was

00:15:25

literally the only at the time like in

00:15:27

kind of the western society that was the

00:15:30

only family with a kid because think

00:15:32

about most people like Joe Biden

00:15:33

obviously

00:15:36

yes all of them

00:15:43

I think that yeah so it was quite an

00:15:46

unusual thing where because

00:15:48

say with Obama there's way way way way

00:15:50

more risk for his family you know

00:15:52

there's a genuine risk that someone

00:15:54

comes and tries to assassinate them so

00:15:56

his kids were way under lock

00:15:58

whereas dad was kind of like I don't

00:16:00

want to rob you of your childhood but at

00:16:02

the same time

00:16:03

I know how much pressure you're under

00:16:05

and I was just really like I'm doing

00:16:07

this and it just got to a point where

00:16:09

they were like okay well do it then and

00:16:11

it almost created this Beast that

00:16:13

I hadn't I at the time I never knew it

00:16:15

was gonna become what it became

00:16:18

you know I kind of just wanted an

00:16:20

Instagram and then all of a sudden there

00:16:21

were articles and

00:16:23

but the other thing you do becomes a

00:16:24

news story by the way depressing for

00:16:26

those journalists imagine doing three

00:16:27

years of Journalism school to then just

00:16:29

update Max Keys feed and write a story

00:16:32

about it there was some funny fact

00:16:34

though when Dad was

00:16:36

um I think it was in 2017 it was the

00:16:39

year after Dad sat down that was

00:16:41

probably where my like profile was the

00:16:42

highest

00:16:43

and there were more articles on me than

00:16:45

the labor housing policy there was like

00:16:48

135 articles on me and there was like

00:16:51

95 on labors like housing

00:16:54

and when you sit there and think like I

00:16:57

was like a first year uni student oh no

00:16:58

I was like a third year uni student and

00:17:00

there was just nonsense and I don't know

00:17:02

it's just crazy like the clickbait yeah

00:17:04

like what people so yeah so it helped

00:17:07

how I I mean I follow you on social

00:17:10

media now and you you seem to have a

00:17:11

fantastic relationship with your parents

00:17:12

yeah um you play golf with your dad a

00:17:14

lot you're out for dinner with your

00:17:15

parents a lot you even do some business

00:17:17

stuff with your dad

00:17:19

um how how I mean I'm sure he would have

00:17:22

always been as prison as what he could

00:17:23

have been over those years but what did

00:17:25

that look like

00:17:26

like you see him once a week phone call

00:17:28

every couple of weeks text every day

00:17:30

jimin now or then when he was prime

00:17:31

minister oh but he he'd usually be home

00:17:34

on like a Sunday

00:17:36

and it was usually like he'd get home at

00:17:38

like five or six

00:17:40

and then he'd be gone kind of in the

00:17:41

morning so I'd probably see him like

00:17:43

maybe once twice a week oh no once every

00:17:45

week or two

00:17:46

for some weeks so he wouldn't be home

00:17:48

but where he was really good was he he

00:17:50

would do things where

00:17:51

you know he might literally catch a

00:17:54

flight home at 9 00 PM just to like say

00:17:57

good night stay the night and you're

00:17:58

leaving it for him

00:18:00

so when I was younger I was really like

00:18:02

oh you're never here but now that I'm

00:18:04

older I'm like holy [ __ ] like

00:18:06

you know he really made the effort to

00:18:07

try

00:18:09

but again when you're young you don't

00:18:11

it's really hard to have perspective on

00:18:13

things when you're when you're young I

00:18:15

think I'm especially like going through

00:18:16

puberty in your teenage years it's like

00:18:17

the whole world revolves around around

00:18:18

you yeah so if your dad's not there he's

00:18:20

spending too much time on his work and

00:18:22

if your prime minister rightfully show

00:18:23

you so you probably should you take it

00:18:25

personally yeah well I there was always

00:18:26

the joke that he cared about as

00:18:28

Blackberry more than likes Town

00:18:31

yeah they always had two on them it was

00:18:34

like a little burner phone thing yeah so

00:18:36

did they um if they have any hard and

00:18:38

fast rules like never you know you can

00:18:40

do you can do whatever you want but like

00:18:42

never never be seen doing drugs or never

00:18:44

do this or

00:18:45

or is it just like they just trusted you

00:18:47

to have the common sense to conduct

00:18:49

yourself in a

00:18:50

um I feel like I'm quite

00:18:53

morally sound myself like I don't need

00:18:55

my parents like I barely drink now like

00:18:58

I didn't drink from January till

00:19:00

September this year

00:19:02

I think I did once for my My Best

00:19:04

Friend's Wedding

00:19:06

um yeah that's a journey we've got to

00:19:07

get into soon the Jiu Jitsu Journey yeah

00:19:09

and I don't know I

00:19:11

like when I was at high school I was

00:19:13

very into my sport I was trying to be

00:19:14

like a pro baseball player

00:19:16

um

00:19:17

and I was I was since I was born in

00:19:19

Singapore and London I started school

00:19:22

like a year early I started at four

00:19:23

whereas here you start at five right so

00:19:25

I was really young for my year like I

00:19:27

finished school when I was 16.

00:19:29

but I did school but I was just like I

00:19:32

was late May and I was young so I was

00:19:34

almost like two years young so I think

00:19:36

like when I was at school you know a lot

00:19:38

of the kids were like 18 and getting

00:19:40

into drinking and girls and I like

00:19:42

barely had my driver's license like and

00:19:45

I was just really focused on my Sport

00:19:46

and so

00:19:47

that kind of stuff

00:19:49

I didn't have that many arguments for my

00:19:51

parents about because it just wasn't I

00:19:52

wasn't that into it and then I suppose

00:19:54

if you're a parent you're right you

00:19:55

raise your kid right and then just hope

00:19:56

they're going to make the right

00:19:57

decisions yeah and I guess I don't know

00:19:59

it just

00:20:01

obviously I got I went through a phase

00:20:02

maybe when I was like 19 to 22 where I

00:20:06

was like drinking and partying and but

00:20:08

it it's kind of funny like I have this

00:20:10

really bad reputation of being this like

00:20:12

DJ party boy but I mean she's like not

00:20:15

loose at all like all my friends think

00:20:17

I'm a massive [ __ ] like I never really

00:20:19

drink that often like I'm just not not

00:20:22

into drugs like it's just not I'm

00:20:24

actually not like that I'm actually a

00:20:25

bit of a nerd and it's funny because

00:20:28

everyone that meets me like I'll meet

00:20:29

girls and I'll have to meet the

00:20:30

appearance and I'll be like oh you

00:20:32

you're still a party boy and I've heard

00:20:34

about you and it's really funny because

00:20:36

I'm just not like that yeah but I think

00:20:38

I just went through that phase on social

00:20:40

media where I was like I'm gonna show

00:20:41

all the fun bits and everyone everyone

00:20:44

does that shot of people's it's their

00:20:46

top five percent of people's lives yeah

00:20:48

but I think people just wanted to create

00:20:50

this image of my head that made them

00:20:52

feel better about themselves because I

00:20:54

mean even when I was a DJ I was working

00:20:55

at Jardin which is like a you know the

00:20:57

top brokering share brokering company

00:20:59

and you know what did you study at Uni I

00:21:02

did Finance international business and

00:21:04

property yeah yeah you can do both those

00:21:07

things hey you can't be the party boy in

00:21:08

the no and so like take it seriously as

00:21:10

a nine to five well I was working like

00:21:12

seven till eight right like every day

00:21:14

like crazy hours you know and then I'd

00:21:16

DJ like on Saturday night so I'd do a

00:21:18

tour or

00:21:18

and so that was the thing was like you

00:21:20

know I topped classes at Uni like I

00:21:22

studied really hard like tried to be

00:21:24

straight A

00:21:25

but I just never to me when you're 21

00:21:28

I'm like who cares about that so I never

00:21:30

posted about that you know and there'd

00:21:32

always be comments like oh go get a job

00:21:34

or like go get a degree and I'd be

00:21:36

sitting there like I've got two and you

00:21:38

know I've got a job you know I'm working

00:21:39

probably harder than you you know but I

00:21:41

never I just got so you never clapped

00:21:43

back no I just got so numb to it that

00:21:45

was the one thing growing up with it I'm

00:21:46

so like someone could walk in here and

00:21:49

be like you're a loser you're this and

00:21:51

it just doesn't phase me like it's

00:21:53

terrible to get to that point yeah like

00:21:56

you one thing your dad was um very good

00:21:58

at as prime minister was um the

00:21:59

self-deprecating thing yeah and it's I

00:22:02

feel like a lot of new zealanders um oh

00:22:04

maybe I'm just projecting here for

00:22:05

myself but um either then radio because

00:22:08

you feel like well someone's gonna have

00:22:09

a jab at me so I might as well go going

00:22:11

first yeah yeah is that the same for you

00:22:13

it still [ __ ] hurts though that stuff

00:22:17

I mean I think there's exceptions to the

00:22:19

rule so

00:22:21

if a good friend of mine and someone

00:22:22

that I respect calls me out and goes

00:22:24

you're being an [ __ ] or you're

00:22:26

actually like crossing a line 100 or

00:22:29

listen yeah but there's some random

00:22:30

troll on the herald calls me a loser

00:22:32

like cool you know like that that stuff

00:22:37

does not have a single drop of impact on

00:22:40

me oh that's good that's a good place to

00:22:41

be because yeah

00:22:43

um so yeah I I suppose I got like a

00:22:46

little bit of radio Fame like in my it

00:22:47

probably didn't start to my 30s I have a

00:22:49

funny story about that oh really so I

00:22:51

came in for because remember every year

00:22:53

dad would do Christmas yeah and become a

00:22:55

Christmas gifts bottle of wine yeah if I

00:22:57

remember I met

00:22:59

um JJ Mike and Domin you guys signed

00:23:01

this like little poster thing but did we

00:23:03

yeah and I literally used to have it

00:23:05

like on my walls

00:23:06

so [ __ ] and I thought it was the

00:23:09

coolest thing ever

00:23:11

yeah but um where I was going with that

00:23:14

it's like um so I became self-exposed I

00:23:16

guess to that sort of social media

00:23:18

trolling or whatever when I was a grown

00:23:19

ass man and here you are your late teens

00:23:21

dealing with it that's [ __ ] difficult

00:23:24

yeah I feel like you know when you're

00:23:25

older you're probably more emotionally

00:23:27

emotionally well equipped to deal with

00:23:29

it than being a young kid just

00:23:30

navigating your way through [ __ ]

00:23:31

puberty and yeah going from being a boy

00:23:34

to a man

00:23:35

and that's where I think what I was

00:23:37

touching on earlier where I say like I

00:23:39

feel like my upbringing was complicated

00:23:41

like it's not I'm not sitting here

00:23:43

saying it was harder than anyone else's

00:23:44

I just think it was really different I

00:23:46

mean there's not many people that go

00:23:47

through it

00:23:48

I couldn't talk to anyone and be like oh

00:23:50

how do I deal with getting abused by 50

00:23:53

year old men on Facebook right you know

00:23:56

like everywhere I went people would like

00:23:59

scream stuff at me and it was so

00:24:00

polarizing I'd have you know people that

00:24:02

were like massive fans and would pay to

00:24:04

come to my shows and pay to do meet and

00:24:06

greets and people that would try to kill

00:24:08

me if they you know it was like you know

00:24:10

I'd be getting like literal death

00:24:11

threats regularly and like so it was

00:24:13

just it was unbelievable with um the

00:24:15

death threats it's like um what do you

00:24:17

do with that you just hand it to the

00:24:18

cops in the camper van in your driveway

00:24:20

and um or do you just sort of laugh it

00:24:22

off or

00:24:23

um I mean most of them are probably

00:24:24

looneys but it's not something that you

00:24:26

know you can't [ __ ] make jokes like

00:24:27

that well that is a joke they track all

00:24:29

that right like if someone threatened

00:24:33

anyone in our family

00:24:35

it would get sorted very very quickly

00:24:37

they do take that stuff yeah seriously

00:24:40

and that you know now there's laws in

00:24:42

place that you can go to prison you know

00:24:44

for that so they would pretty quickly

00:24:46

part of me like work out

00:24:48

who set up where it's coming from and

00:24:50

you know as you said sometimes it would

00:24:52

just be a drunk kid that said it you

00:24:55

know and that very quickly apologize and

00:24:57

kind of take it down but then yeah there

00:24:59

were some people where it wasn't a joke

00:25:01

um and obviously that got

00:25:03

dealt with in different ways but yeah I

00:25:05

mean every every threat would get

00:25:07

assessed like differently but

00:25:10

um

00:25:10

yes I don't know I guess still back to a

00:25:13

question like on dealing with it I think

00:25:15

it was weird I

00:25:17

I didn't real I've kind of gone on like

00:25:19

a mental health journey in the last like

00:25:21

few years which

00:25:22

I didn't realize how messed up it all

00:25:24

made me like

00:25:26

oh man it's a lot to unpack it was it's

00:25:28

crazy like I was always like a very

00:25:30

happy chill kid like you know if you met

00:25:33

me when I was 18 and I was getting

00:25:35

abused all the time online and that was

00:25:37

when I had like heaps of hate and

00:25:38

because now I feel like I don't get as

00:25:41

much hate you know I'm kind of running a

00:25:42

business I'm building people houses and

00:25:44

I feel like I'm trying to do good things

00:25:46

now so I'm getting like less abused

00:25:49

constantly whereas back then when I was

00:25:50

like a bit of a dropkick DJ like you

00:25:53

could see why everyone thought I was at

00:25:54

all like and I like that no no no

00:25:56

actually

00:25:57

you can't you can't think someone's a

00:26:00

tall just because they're wearing a

00:26:01

bandana and no shirt yeah but I can see

00:26:03

like but I've got a post here so this

00:26:05

was um this was made on um your 26th

00:26:07

birthday how old are you now 27.

00:26:10

I realized for the last few years of my

00:26:11

life I'd portrayed this party boy

00:26:13

dropkick version of myself that was

00:26:14

actually not an accurate representation

00:26:16

of the person I really am I hated the

00:26:17

way I presented myself and learned the

00:26:19

lessons and negative effects social

00:26:20

media can play blah blah blah blah

00:26:22

um

00:26:23

I mean is that being a bit hard on

00:26:25

yourself I feel like you were just like

00:26:27

just growing up being normal I mean you

00:26:29

know you had it you you you still have a

00:26:32

good rig you had a good rig you had some

00:26:33

photos with your top off

00:26:35

most I think um like normal teenage boys

00:26:39

that have that are just like developing

00:26:41

that body in a workout they want to show

00:26:43

it off I think that post is quite

00:26:45

complicated so I took

00:26:48

about 18 months off social media like I

00:26:51

just didn't didn't post and I feel like

00:26:54

I kind of sat there and I'm denied

00:26:56

whether I'd ever get back by the way

00:26:58

what was the Catalyst for taking that

00:26:59

break was there like a was there a rock

00:27:01

bottom or something or I life I'm being

00:27:02

honest I had quite a big mental

00:27:04

breakdown and that's what I was trying

00:27:06

to say before is I didn't realize the

00:27:07

toll it had on me because

00:27:10

as we were saying at the start of the

00:27:11

podcast I would sit there and go oh like

00:27:13

I've got rich parents and I went to a

00:27:15

private school and

00:27:16

I I shouldn't feel sad like I you know

00:27:20

so much to be grateful for it yeah and

00:27:22

I'd be like

00:27:24

I guess I was I was quite self-aware so

00:27:26

I'd sit there and go well

00:27:28

why would I feel like this when you know

00:27:31

I did like community service at school

00:27:33

like there was a big thing at Kings you

00:27:35

know and I saw people like kind of

00:27:36

living on the other side I guess I don't

00:27:39

know how to say that better but

00:27:40

and I was very aware I was like [ __ ]

00:27:42

that you know how I can't moan about

00:27:45

anything I'm going through so I I just

00:27:47

got to a point where I

00:27:49

my way of dealing with it because it was

00:27:51

so overwhelming was I would just ignore

00:27:54

it

00:27:55

and I got literally so good that I

00:27:58

didn't care and I like literally didn't

00:28:00

care just numbed out to it so numb but I

00:28:03

was numb with all my emotions I when I

00:28:05

was dating girls like

00:28:07

you know I'd struggled to feel love like

00:28:09

I wouldn't accept love from people

00:28:11

I was nice I'm not saying I was like an

00:28:13

[ __ ] to everyone but I just had no

00:28:14

emotion like I could break up with

00:28:16

someone I'd be ah whatever

00:28:18

and I'd want to feel hurt and then I'd

00:28:19

go but then I'd go through these

00:28:20

extremes I'd feel really upset for a

00:28:22

little bit but I just had this like

00:28:24

crazy way of just switching it off

00:28:26

and it was it was bizarre and I didn't

00:28:28

really notice until I got older that it

00:28:31

was kind of a problem anyway I went

00:28:33

traveling

00:28:34

it was really weird it was I'd always

00:28:36

been so go go so I got diagnosed with

00:28:39

ADD a couple years ago and OCD which I

00:28:41

never knew I had did you how did they

00:28:43

don't know I'm pretty sure I've got that

00:28:45

as well yeah I mean are you on like

00:28:47

wrestling or Concerta or no I take stuff

00:28:50

for my OCD right right

00:28:52

um like an SSRI

00:28:54

but um

00:28:55

yeah like I because I've always been

00:28:57

super hypo and they've worked out with

00:28:59

add that it's not like a disorder

00:29:01

anymore it's more like a brain type so

00:29:04

people that are just very high energy

00:29:05

and always go go go go that's kind of

00:29:07

it's more like a spectrum as opposed to

00:29:09

like you have a condition because you

00:29:11

can't like fix it you know it's just you

00:29:13

know if you're someone that's super high

00:29:14

energy maybe you are on that Spectrum

00:29:16

but obviously it is a spectrum so

00:29:18

there's people where it affects them so

00:29:21

much that they can't concentrate or so I

00:29:23

don't have it to like extreme levels or

00:29:25

anything like that but anyway one thing

00:29:27

I didn't understand was I've always kept

00:29:29

myself so busy like literally the day I

00:29:32

finished uni I went from my exam to

00:29:34

full-time work and when I was at Uni I

00:29:36

was working while at Uni and I like if

00:29:39

you were like oh come over and let's sit

00:29:41

on the couch

00:29:42

and just sit here I would like have a

00:29:44

mental breakdown I hate that I have to

00:29:46

be like like an active relaxer oh like

00:29:49

but to like an unhealthy extreme right

00:29:52

right you know like this morning got up

00:29:53

went to the gym at seven like had

00:29:56

meetings eight till ten then went to

00:29:57

Physio then came here like I'll be busy

00:30:00

till the moment I go to sleep and I just

00:30:03

have to be like that I just crammed so

00:30:05

much stuff in 24 7 I'm always like

00:30:07

and so

00:30:09

I my way of dealing with everything was

00:30:12

I was so busy that I just ignored it and

00:30:14

so what happened was I went on this OE

00:30:16

you know my whole life my parents been

00:30:18

like you have to achieve you have to do

00:30:19

this like you have to study you have to

00:30:22

get your grades you have to make money

00:30:23

like they were so strict on me and like

00:30:24

because they wanted me to do well but

00:30:26

they pushed me and then I went from that

00:30:28

you know working like Investment Banking

00:30:30

crazy hours so much pressure

00:30:33

you know and then all the pressure of

00:30:34

growing up with Dad like the social

00:30:36

media and then I'm sitting on the beach

00:30:38

in the Bahamas literally on my own in

00:30:41

the middle of nowhere with no service

00:30:44

no one knows me like just literally

00:30:47

nothing and my parents being like Oh

00:30:49

yeah have fun

00:30:50

and I remember I was sitting on a speech

00:30:51

I just started crying

00:30:53

and I was like this is the weirdest

00:30:54

thing ever and as I'm in the most

00:30:56

beautiful place I've ever been in my

00:30:57

life and I'm miserable

00:30:59

and I called my mum and I was like I let

00:31:01

you think I'm depressed I was like I

00:31:03

don't know what it is but it was it was

00:31:05

so confusing for me because I always

00:31:06

thought depression was like

00:31:08

you sat in your bed and it was dark and

00:31:11

you couldn't get out and you wanted to

00:31:12

kill yourself and that was my idea of

00:31:14

depression but I wasn't feeling like

00:31:16

that like I still want to do lots I

00:31:18

still

00:31:19

but I just wasn't happy either it was

00:31:21

nothing was bringing you the joy that it

00:31:22

should have no I just felt numb about

00:31:23

everything like I wasn't like unhappy or

00:31:26

miserable but I wasn't happy either

00:31:29

and I think what I've now learned since

00:31:31

I go into counseling and stuff like that

00:31:33

is that

00:31:34

um like with that kind of brain any big

00:31:37

change or being too

00:31:40

not doing anything for too long can

00:31:43

really unsettle you and so I had my

00:31:45

whole life I just been like you know I

00:31:46

was always that kid that played like

00:31:48

three Sports and went to school and had

00:31:49

friends and did this and then just so go

00:31:52

go like I'd have a friend round and I'd

00:31:53

leave and I'd be like oh it's called

00:31:55

another friend let's go normal you know

00:31:57

like always wanted to like do stuff and

00:31:59

so you know then I was like I want to go

00:32:02

travel by myself and

00:32:04

I don't know it was just weird into

00:32:06

I really remember I sat on that beach I

00:32:09

had my phone and I was I need to do

00:32:11

something about this because I was like

00:32:12

this isn't like good so I called my

00:32:15

parents had like a big chat and you know

00:32:17

they were kind of like oh maybe you

00:32:18

should come home and I was like nah I

00:32:19

think I think I want to like ride this

00:32:21

out I just started writing this thing on

00:32:23

my notes and it was literally like

00:32:26

I'd never kind of worked out what I

00:32:28

wanted because my whole life I'd been in

00:32:29

the spotlight and doing all these

00:32:31

different things and

00:32:33

I think I sat there and I realized I was

00:32:35

only doing Investment Banking because

00:32:36

Dad did it and he told me about it and

00:32:39

it was cool and he'd been successful and

00:32:41

like I was good at that stuff like I'm

00:32:42

good with numbers and you know I handle

00:32:44

pressure really well

00:32:45

and I kind of went into it though

00:32:47

because

00:32:49

like he did it in a way I wasn't like

00:32:51

literally like I want to do it because

00:32:52

Dad did it but you know it was just

00:32:53

something I'd always been like I'm going

00:32:54

to be especially for it's quite common

00:32:56

for people to follow on their parents

00:32:57

footsteps yeah but I just found like I

00:32:59

was in there and everyone's like oh your

00:33:00

dad was the best Trader and he was this

00:33:02

and

00:33:02

you know so

00:33:04

then you know I was like oh what does

00:33:06

everyone else think it's kind of cool

00:33:07

and I was always really into music you

00:33:09

know

00:33:10

DJing was popular and I was like oh

00:33:11

let's try this you know I kind of felt

00:33:14

like I was doing I had no identity

00:33:16

because I was always John Key's son and

00:33:19

I was like on this massive quest to try

00:33:20

to be Max kid sorry about that 25

00:33:23

minutes of this podcast has been asking

00:33:25

questions about your old man I'm sorry

00:33:26

yeah no that's all good but that that

00:33:28

was what I found so tough and that's why

00:33:31

I loved the DJing was because For the

00:33:33

First Time I became Max Key

00:33:35

and everyone thought I was so into the

00:33:37

publicity and this and that but it's

00:33:39

actually not the psychology of why I

00:33:41

loved it to me it was like

00:33:43

I was me I wasn't oh this is John

00:33:45

Keystone it wasn't like oh

00:33:48

you know I finally had like I was my own

00:33:50

name and I had my own thing and people

00:33:52

knew me for that and I looked good um

00:33:54

the the original stuff you did I looked

00:33:57

that up on Spotify yesterday you were

00:33:58

most successful songs got over a million

00:34:00

lessons yeah now what no mean feat yeah

00:34:03

so I mean that was the thing like it all

00:34:05

like did all good you know I didn't you

00:34:07

know a few of those kind of got to like

00:34:09

number one on Spotify for a little bit

00:34:11

and

00:34:12

you know I'm not sitting here saying I'm

00:34:14

like Calvin Harris

00:34:16

yeah but I mean no no no

00:34:19

yeah like I always put 100 into

00:34:21

everything I do so I like I felt like

00:34:23

the quality you know of everything I did

00:34:25

was was solid but I think yeah when I

00:34:27

was like sitting in the Bahamas I

00:34:29

started basically trying to work out I

00:34:31

just wrote this list and I was literally

00:34:32

like why do eyes Max he actually want

00:34:35

out of life like what do I want to

00:34:37

achieve and what are some things that I

00:34:39

want to do and what makes me happy and

00:34:42

it was so weird and then from that

00:34:44

moment I was like I need to get off

00:34:46

social media because I need to stop

00:34:48

showing other people what I think they

00:34:49

want to see

00:34:51

and I was just I'm just gonna get off I

00:34:53

just got to a point I don't care if you

00:34:54

like myself I don't care if you think

00:34:56

I'm having fun because I'm gonna go have

00:34:57

fun

00:34:58

and I was like I don't care and that's

00:35:00

why I stopped vlogging and doing all

00:35:01

this stuff because I was like all the

00:35:03

fun I was having I was never filming and

00:35:05

all the stuff I was filming I was

00:35:06

forcing and it wasn't actually the stuff

00:35:08

that was really fun and people would go

00:35:09

wow that was amazing and I was like no

00:35:11

the actual amazing thing was when I met

00:35:13

this person or I did this or if I didn't

00:35:15

film it because I was having so much fun

00:35:16

I'd do it and so I just got to a point

00:35:19

where I was like

00:35:21

I think with the OC I get so obsessed

00:35:23

with things so I just became obsessed

00:35:24

with like wanting to be better I think

00:35:26

that's an 80d thing as well like hyper

00:35:27

fixating are you so hyper fixated yeah

00:35:29

and so I created this rule for myself

00:35:32

where I was like every time I was going

00:35:33

to use social media I read a book like

00:35:36

an ebook and ended up reading like 53

00:35:38

books while I was traveling wow and then

00:35:40

I got like obsessed with reading and

00:35:41

seen I'd read every night and that's

00:35:43

like the worst OE ever I know parents

00:35:46

are probably like oh no Max is probably

00:35:47

out doing coke tonight no he's in his

00:35:49

hostel on his Kindle no so I I mean

00:35:52

don't get me wrong I still like win out

00:35:53

and like I still had heaps of fun while

00:35:55

I was traveling but

00:35:56

say like I was on a train and I would

00:35:59

normally just sit there scrolling

00:36:00

Instagram for two hours I just like read

00:36:01

oh the zombie scroll yeah it's a that's

00:36:03

a trap isn't it well I just realized how

00:36:05

much time I was wasting and like you

00:36:07

know I'm not sitting here saying I was

00:36:08

reading like

00:36:10

five hours a day and completely light

00:36:12

but it was just like when I'd be sitting

00:36:14

at an airport or on a plane or you know

00:36:17

I'd do a Kentucky and it'd be a seven

00:36:18

hour bus ride I might read for an hour

00:36:19

and I couldn't believe how much stuff I

00:36:22

you know and so then it just created

00:36:25

this thing where I was like I just

00:36:27

became obsessed with like learning about

00:36:28

myself and so I started I always tried

00:36:30

breaking down to three different types

00:36:32

I'd always read like a psychology book

00:36:34

to try like

00:36:36

yeah and then I'd always read like a

00:36:39

business book on like a mentor I liked

00:36:41

so like maybe Elon musk's book or like

00:36:43

Phil Knight's book or and then I always

00:36:46

yeah such a good book and then my final

00:36:49

thing would always be just something I

00:36:50

enjoyed

00:36:51

just so it would be something more like

00:36:53

fun to break it up because some of the

00:36:54

psychology books can get a bit it

00:36:56

doesn't sound like fun no no but to me I

00:37:00

just got so like fixated on spending all

00:37:02

my time learning and just growing and

00:37:05

trying to be bitter yeah when there's a

00:37:07

great book called um you've probably

00:37:08

even read this one or read bits about

00:37:09

Atomic habits and it talks about like

00:37:11

whether you do like little good things

00:37:13

or little bad things that's going to

00:37:14

take you take your other on an upward

00:37:16

trajectory or a downward trajectory well

00:37:17

that's what I was meaning about like say

00:37:19

with the reading it might only be 10 15

00:37:20

minutes a day but yeah you know I was

00:37:22

traveling for 18 months and I had no job

00:37:24

so I had you know an hour two hours a

00:37:27

day where I wasn't doing much

00:37:29

you know and so that's where I started

00:37:30

doing all this and that's why I read so

00:37:33

much it wasn't actually like I was doing

00:37:35

anything freakish or weird I just was

00:37:37

using my time kind of wisely yeah and

00:37:40

when did um

00:37:42

you see you so you're on the beach in

00:37:43

the Bahamas you call your parents you

00:37:45

say I'm this this [ __ ] sucks if you

00:37:47

can't be happy swimming with the pigs

00:37:49

um so when like so I'm guessing that was

00:37:52

sort of like rock bottom or that was the

00:37:54

moment of realization where you thought

00:37:55

I got to do something about this

00:37:57

um so like when did you start therapy

00:37:58

and when did that how did that Journey

00:38:00

look look like for you

00:38:01

um so I only that only happened like

00:38:04

when you were back in NZ yeah so I was

00:38:06

only three months into my OE when the

00:38:09

Bahamas thing happened I was maybe only

00:38:10

like two and a half right but it all

00:38:12

kind of makes sense in hindsight because

00:38:14

that was exactly enough time where I had

00:38:16

kind of Switched Off I wasn't stressed

00:38:19

I wasn't busy you're forced to slow down

00:38:22

I was forced to slow down actually late

00:38:24

it was and that's kind of like it was

00:38:26

almost like this big water balloon and

00:38:27

then just went boom whereas my whole

00:38:29

life as I said like I was so busy that I

00:38:32

could just

00:38:33

you know it's like imagine if you kind

00:38:36

of had a breakup and everyone's like oh

00:38:38

just go be busy it's kind of like that

00:38:40

like I just distracted myself my whole

00:38:42

life but that's the thing with emotion

00:38:44

is that it has to come out in some way

00:38:47

you know you can't just no one because I

00:38:50

was like I'm so amazing with stress

00:38:52

because I would never get stressed and

00:38:54

if I got stressed I'd be really calm but

00:38:56

then I found out I was stressed 24 7 so

00:38:58

when I was stressed it wasn't doing

00:38:59

anything to me because I was already

00:39:01

you're always on the hyper alert yeah

00:39:03

yeah and there's I think it's

00:39:06

interesting because people sit there and

00:39:07

go oh that means you're pulling your

00:39:08

hair out every two seconds and it's not

00:39:10

like that it's just I was always busy

00:39:11

you know like but then adrenaline State

00:39:14

it's not it's not a good state to be in

00:39:15

no it's not a duration no it's terrible

00:39:17

for you and so

00:39:20

um yeah so I guess I came home and

00:39:25

I'd always known there was something a

00:39:27

little bit weird with me like if you ask

00:39:28

anyone that knows me

00:39:30

like if you ask anyone that actually

00:39:32

knows you not claim they do how would

00:39:34

you describe Mexico I guarantee that all

00:39:36

say intense that's kind of like what

00:39:39

most people like oh he's intense like

00:39:42

in a good or a bad way you know that

00:39:44

that's just how like I'm just full-on

00:39:45

like I talk heaps I'm always like

00:39:48

thinking of stuff like and so I always

00:39:51

knew there was something like a bit

00:39:52

weird not with the weird's the wrong

00:39:54

word there was always something I always

00:39:56

felt a little bit different but not

00:39:57

different in a way where because I have

00:39:59

really good social skills like I

00:40:01

wouldn't be scared in front of girls and

00:40:02

you know I wasn't like again my

00:40:05

definition of all these things because I

00:40:06

was sort of OCD was you said to be

00:40:08

really tidy but that's not what OCD I

00:40:11

have no yeah how does OCD look like for

00:40:14

you I have quite bad interests of

00:40:16

thought OCD and I think so I'm a chronic

00:40:18

overthinker right so it's really good in

00:40:20

aspects of my life you know that's why

00:40:22

I'm always in really good shape and I

00:40:24

feel like I run my business well and

00:40:26

I've had success like studying or

00:40:27

because I'm always thinking so much and

00:40:29

overthinking what could go wrong

00:40:31

that it makes me fixate on that stuff

00:40:34

but then

00:40:35

say when I have a girlfriend or I have

00:40:37

good things in my life I overthink all

00:40:39

the bad things that could happen and I

00:40:41

almost like self-destruct

00:40:43

and that's kind of the negative side of

00:40:44

it and that's when I got older I

00:40:46

realized whereas when you're younger

00:40:48

like well I just played sport I went to

00:40:50

school like

00:40:51

maybe I'd fixate on having a bad game or

00:40:53

you know like yeah whereas when you get

00:40:55

older you start actually realizing like

00:40:57

I became like a massive hypochondriac

00:40:59

like I'd get a heart palpitation and be

00:41:02

like Oh am I having a heart attack and

00:41:03

I'd like Google

00:41:05

symptoms of that or was that like an

00:41:07

anxiety attack

00:41:08

no I just feel anything in my body like

00:41:10

I get like a little pain in my head for

00:41:12

two seconds and I'd be like

00:41:14

like it I feel like stupid saying this

00:41:16

but I got to a point I'd be like I've

00:41:18

got like a like a brain tumor and I

00:41:21

would freak out or you get like gurgling

00:41:23

symptoms

00:41:25

you know and then I'd be like maybe I

00:41:28

should talk to my doctor but with OCD

00:41:29

you just Loop yeah you know and I'd sit

00:41:31

there and be like oh like what if the

00:41:34

doctor doesn't pick up on it and that's

00:41:35

the problem with OCD is there's no

00:41:37

answer

00:41:38

you just can keep asking the same

00:41:40

question over and over and over and so I

00:41:42

did all this my whole life like I always

00:41:44

ask for reassurance I'd always be

00:41:46

so like as a kid I was all and to bring

00:41:49

that to your question I've always been

00:41:50

anti-smoking like I've never smoked a

00:41:52

cigarette in my life never will

00:41:54

and as a kid would walk past someone

00:41:56

that would smoke I'd go like Mom Dad why

00:41:59

is that guy smoking they'll be like

00:42:00

because he's addicted I'd be like but

00:42:01

why is he addicted

00:42:03

and then I'll be like oh because he

00:42:04

wants to be and I'd be like well why it

00:42:06

kills you and I'd and so then I'd sort

00:42:08

that out and then we'd go 100 meters

00:42:10

we'll walk past another smoker be like

00:42:11

Mom Dad why is it and we told you

00:42:14

there was heaps of stuff like that as a

00:42:17

kid where

00:42:18

they didn't understand that that was

00:42:19

like OCD and I did I ever said how old

00:42:22

were you at the time because I feel like

00:42:23

it's common for kids to ask a million

00:42:25

questions of their parents and so that

00:42:26

was the thing so it was when I was young

00:42:28

but

00:42:29

I would ask like everywhere I go like

00:42:31

Jiu Jitsu School everyone's like he

00:42:34

asked way too many questions because I

00:42:35

just get so fixated on

00:42:38

like I have to learn but I do like weird

00:42:40

things to like say we're in like the

00:42:41

helicopter once and dad was talking to

00:42:44

like another guy because he's doing his

00:42:45

PPL and they were talking about the

00:42:47

engines Private Pilot

00:42:49

and they were talking about like the

00:42:51

engineering of you know the motor and I

00:42:54

sat there and had no value to add to the

00:42:56

conversation I felt like an idiot and I

00:42:57

literally went home and for like five

00:42:59

hours just studied like helicopter

00:43:01

engineering just in case you know like

00:43:04

so as a kid like my parents are like oh

00:43:07

he's just inquisitive and he just asked

00:43:09

a lot and so no one really

00:43:10

oh so you just never sort of grew out of

00:43:12

it like toddlers do eventually but no

00:43:15

one knew no one thought because it

00:43:17

wasn't like a problem you know as I said

00:43:18

it's a spectrum so I wasn't like

00:43:20

uncapable of folks saying I wasn't like

00:43:23

I was just intense and everyone just

00:43:25

thought I was full-on but then my dad's

00:43:26

really intense so yeah everyone's always

00:43:28

just like his dad and so it wasn't until

00:43:31

I got older and I started understanding

00:43:32

more that there were so many things I

00:43:34

was doing that were like OCD which I

00:43:36

just had no idea about

00:43:38

and

00:43:40

um

00:43:41

I think oh actually sorry there's one

00:43:43

thing that happened while I was

00:43:44

traveling so I caught the Bubonic plague

00:43:46

when I was in Bosnia

00:43:48

oh my God what year were you traveling

00:43:50

at 1885 I know so I was the first I

00:43:52

think I was the first person in New

00:43:53

Zealand since 1905 to get it

00:43:57

yeah it's called Yesenia it's like

00:44:00

Yesenia in Terror or something it seems

00:44:03

like the worst thing for a hypochondriac

00:44:04

to catch well that that's what caused

00:44:06

the hypochondria so and that's what so

00:44:09

apparently when you have like something

00:44:10

like lurking or that's like dormant if

00:44:13

you have like a really triggering event

00:44:15

that can

00:44:17

like offset or that can create the

00:44:19

problem so I was never as OCD as I like

00:44:22

am now and I was never a hypochondria I

00:44:24

was a little bit but never to any

00:44:27

extreme but I caught that and like

00:44:30

I wouldn't say I nearly died but I lost

00:44:31

like 15 20 kilos I was you know fainting

00:44:35

like it was all like truly literally

00:44:37

horrific but I couldn't eat food for

00:44:38

like nothing there no vaccine no nothing

00:44:41

they can no only like a couple hundred

00:44:43

people a year catcher it's really rare

00:44:45

and like so that was the problem I was

00:44:48

going to I ended up in hospital like

00:44:49

seven times I was traveling and every

00:44:51

time I'd go there'd be a list of like

00:44:53

200 things you could have and be like

00:44:56

number 200 because no one catches it and

00:44:58

so they were always like oh you're

00:45:00

dehydrated or you're this or you're

00:45:01

there and so no one could like fix me

00:45:03

and so that's what caused the

00:45:04

hypochondria because I was so nervous

00:45:07

because you know you can tell on your

00:45:09

body when something's going wrong and

00:45:11

you know it's got like a decently High

00:45:12

death rate and I was like a really

00:45:14

really fit 24 year old and caught it and

00:45:16

it absolutely hit me for six so if you

00:45:18

were 70 or 80 in court you can see how

00:45:20

it just destroyed you like for 18 months

00:45:23

my gut was just ruined like couldn't eat

00:45:26

I was throwing stuff up like almost got

00:45:28

IBS like

00:45:29

I was constantly getting like

00:45:31

gastroscopy he's like how is this even

00:45:33

still a thing like they they came up

00:45:35

with a vaccine for covert in a couple of

00:45:37

years yeah well it's basically it's not

00:45:39

the exact same as to be on a plague

00:45:41

where you get bitten by like a mosquito

00:45:43

but

00:45:44

if you drink contaminated water that has

00:45:46

I think copper in it right and then I

00:45:48

ate pork that had eaten or drank the

00:45:51

water

00:45:52

and so there's like two weird it's

00:45:54

either contaminated water or really bad

00:45:56

yeah Peg like pork that's eaten it it

00:45:59

was in like we're in Sarajevo and kind

00:46:01

of like a stay-over thing with like a

00:46:03

we're like a local family's house and

00:46:04

you know so I'd say it's probably from

00:46:07

something like that but I mean you take

00:46:09

that risk when you travel you know it's

00:46:11

um

00:46:12

but I think that's what yeah really

00:46:14

unsettled me was I didn't know what was

00:46:15

going wrong and I was going to all these

00:46:17

Specialists and they kept telling me was

00:46:18

something wrong with you but I'm sitting

00:46:20

there like there's definitely something

00:46:22

wrong I literally felt like I was dying

00:46:23

like especially if you're if you're if

00:46:24

you're in as in tune with your own body

00:46:26

as what you were you know then I knew

00:46:28

something really bad and I'm calling my

00:46:29

parents I'm like we'll go to the doctor

00:46:30

I go to the doctor and they'd be like

00:46:31

there's nothing wrong with you drink

00:46:32

some water

00:46:33

and so then I finally got to the point

00:46:35

where because I was having all these

00:46:36

arguments with my parents they were like

00:46:37

we'll come home and get everything

00:46:39

tested so I literally did every test

00:46:41

Under the Sun and then that's when they

00:46:43

discovered that like holy like you've

00:46:45

had this thing called Yesenia and even

00:46:47

my doctor like had to Google it because

00:46:48

apparently it's the first thing you

00:46:49

learn on day one of like medical school

00:46:51

they're like you're never gonna need

00:46:52

this they start at number 200 and

00:46:54

working yeah and so yeah and but it was

00:46:58

one of those things where once you've

00:47:00

got it they can't do anything you just

00:47:01

have to kind of go through it and so

00:47:04

the remnants of it all was I became a

00:47:06

hypochondriac because I sat there and

00:47:08

went oh like what if I died and so I

00:47:10

started getting like started freaking

00:47:11

out about death and

00:47:13

you know my health and I just kind of

00:47:15

became is that those fears of death with

00:47:18

this thing were they rational or is that

00:47:19

irrational well it's probably the OCD

00:47:21

you know it's probably just the

00:47:22

uncertainty of it all yeah and it made

00:47:24

me realize just how fragile everything

00:47:25

is and

00:47:27

you know because I think in New Zealand

00:47:28

we do live quite sheltered lives you

00:47:30

know you don't sit there and

00:47:32

um you know you don't really think about

00:47:34

the [ __ ] plague no you don't yeah no

00:47:37

no so but I um I um I went to see a

00:47:42

therapist um for a while I'm not on

00:47:43

therapy at the moment but it was one of

00:47:45

the hardest things I've ever done but

00:47:46

one of the best things as well and while

00:47:47

I was there I was like why the [ __ ] did

00:47:49

I take so long to embark on this tuning

00:47:51

because one of the it's like a personal

00:47:53

trainer for your [ __ ] head well

00:47:54

that's the thing like this this

00:47:56

therapist said to me one day when you're

00:47:57

when you're having like a ridiculous or

00:47:59

irrational thoughts or you're in a

00:48:00

critical your inner voice is going crazy

00:48:02

and you realize you're doing it pull

00:48:04

yourself up and just ask yourself is

00:48:06

this helping yeah it never is but were

00:48:09

you able to do that or no so that that's

00:48:11

the whole kind of like therapy process

00:48:13

was

00:48:14

now I get to a point where I go is this

00:48:17

fact or opinion

00:48:18

if it's a opinion I just ignore it

00:48:21

and so just with your own thoughts on

00:48:23

the things that you yeah so I'm sitting

00:48:25

there and I'm going am I because it

00:48:27

started with hypochondria but then it

00:48:29

would you know it evolved into like

00:48:30

heaps of different like anything with

00:48:32

uncertainty I'd start

00:48:33

yeah because nothing but what you

00:48:35

realize is nothing in life's uncertain

00:48:36

that I could be like see you next week

00:48:38

but you might get hit by a bus or I

00:48:40

might fall off a cliff or you know the

00:48:42

world might explode who doesn't you know

00:48:44

it might be 99 certain but there's

00:48:46

nothing that's actually certain whereas

00:48:48

with OCD you try get certainty about

00:48:51

everything

00:48:52

and so you don't realize how many things

00:48:54

in life are actually uncertain and so I

00:48:58

think you just start to fix it like

00:48:59

everyone fixates on different things so

00:49:01

you know some people might be light

00:49:02

switches and they go oh if I don't turn

00:49:05

that off the house is going to blow up

00:49:06

and then I might kill my kid or you know

00:49:08

they you just start having all these

00:49:09

crazy thoughts yeah and it seems um like

00:49:12

crystal clear in your mind that that is

00:49:14

going to be the outcome well it's a

00:49:15

rationalize it is because it's

00:49:16

triggering your like amygdala which is

00:49:18

your like fight or flight and so in time

00:49:21

you learn

00:49:23

you know and obviously I have different

00:49:25

I go through different patches you know

00:49:26

if I'm really stressed or something's

00:49:28

really bothering me I find it harder to

00:49:30

manage but you know for quite a while a

00:49:33

couple years now I've been pretty in

00:49:34

tune with it all yeah so that's good and

00:49:36

you're in a good place now what's your

00:49:37

like in a voice and a Critic like now

00:49:39

pretty good yeah I mean I'm so I'm I'm

00:49:42

really tough on myself like I have

00:49:43

really high expectations of myself and

00:49:46

you know I kind of I am a bit of a

00:49:48

perfectionist I think

00:49:51

um so I struggle to do things in halves

00:49:53

you know I'm either really really

00:49:55

focused on something or I'm not is it a

00:49:57

bit that's not a bad thing is that a bad

00:49:59

thing well this is what is it just

00:50:01

annoying I I it's I had Lisa Carrington

00:50:03

sitting in the same chair last week New

00:50:05

Zealand's greatest ever Olympian and she

00:50:07

she was the same sort of thing whatever

00:50:08

whatever she does she wants to do well

00:50:10

like uh you know there's the kayaking

00:50:12

obviously um but even if she's like like

00:50:14

cooking a pizza for her and her husband

00:50:16

at home like she wants to be make it

00:50:18

really [ __ ] good well that what what

00:50:20

my like counselor said was that

00:50:22

almost every highly successful business

00:50:25

or Sportsman will have some form of

00:50:27

thing

00:50:28

you know because to be that good at

00:50:31

something you have to be obsessed but I

00:50:33

feel like it's probably healthy or good

00:50:34

to have some things that you just [ __ ]

00:50:35

at and you're happy to be shitty well

00:50:37

that's why I started Jujitsu yeah but

00:50:40

then you got obsess with it yeah yeah

00:50:42

okay all right well let's get into that

00:50:44

now so you so you it's the most Joe

00:50:47

Rogan thing ever so you you Rogan goes

00:50:49

on and on about you Johnson this podcast

00:50:51

froths about it so you was this a New

00:50:53

Year's resolution or kind of I

00:50:57

I was dating a girl last year and we

00:50:58

broke up and over summer I was like kind

00:51:00

of up north my parents and

00:51:02

just kind of cruising really and I was

00:51:05

listening to quite a few of his podcasts

00:51:06

and

00:51:07

it wasn't necessarily that he was just

00:51:09

going about Jiu Jitsu and was like you

00:51:11

should do it because to be blunt we need

00:51:12

to talk about it I actually used to skip

00:51:14

those votes because I just didn't

00:51:17

like I'm just not and like I was never

00:51:20

that kid that wrestled with his mates

00:51:21

growing up and like I'm not a

00:51:23

confrontational dude and it's not stuff

00:51:25

that I actually

00:51:27

it's not really something I'm That Into

00:51:28

You know my dad was never like that with

00:51:30

me I never had Brothers like I just kind

00:51:33

of don't I always loved like Ball Sports

00:51:34

and that kind of thing

00:51:36

but anyway so what actually got me

00:51:38

hooked on it was

00:51:40

have you heard of Jocko willink no you

00:51:43

should listen to him he's like awesome

00:51:44

so he's a Navy SEAL and he does like

00:51:46

these really cool motivational talks and

00:51:48

he's been on Joe Rogan a lot that

00:51:49

they're really good friends and he's a

00:51:50

black belt in Jiu Jitsu he was talking

00:51:52

about goal sitting and so he talks about

00:51:55

say that I come to you or I set myself a

00:51:57

goal and I go I want to do 50 pull-ups

00:51:59

by the end of the year

00:52:00

and say that I get to like 46 by the end

00:52:04

of the year and that I get to the point

00:52:06

where to do those final four I'd have to

00:52:09

lose 10 kilos stop training and stop

00:52:12

working because I have to do all this

00:52:14

other stuff just to achieve this like

00:52:16

tiny incremental goal

00:52:18

he's kind of saying that as much as you

00:52:20

want to always set out to achieve what

00:52:23

you want to do there's also a point

00:52:25

where is that tiny gain that you're

00:52:27

getting worth abandoning everything else

00:52:29

in your life and so he talks about you

00:52:32

constantly need to revise your goals

00:52:34

but you need to be

00:52:36

at least you know in your head thinking

00:52:39

you know could stay with you with your

00:52:40

Marathon running you could easily be

00:52:42

like I got to 30k and it was tough so oh

00:52:45

that's close enough you know like he's

00:52:47

not saying like do that but it was say

00:52:49

that if you wanted to be half an hour

00:52:52

quicker in your Marathon you had to stop

00:52:53

podcasting stop your job have no friends

00:52:56

and never eat anything nice yeah it's

00:52:58

opportunity cost or lost isn't it yeah

00:53:00

so it it's just weighing it up it's not

00:53:03

necessarily saying quit all your goals

00:53:04

before you achieve stuff because

00:53:05

obviously you still need to achieve but

00:53:07

is that worth it and so and that's kind

00:53:11

of like part of what I thought with

00:53:12

social media like is this adding but

00:53:15

anyway so what Joe then replied to that

00:53:18

is he goes that's really true and he's

00:53:19

like the best way to constantly be

00:53:21

growing and developing your brain

00:53:23

because it's kind of like a muscle is to

00:53:25

constantly be really crap at something

00:53:27

because that feeling of being terrible

00:53:31

it forces you to evolve and that that's

00:53:35

what got me into it I was like and

00:53:38

that's what he was saying is amazing

00:53:39

with Jiu Jitsu was he's like I've been

00:53:40

doing it for like 20 years or how long

00:53:42

he's been doing it I'm a black belt but

00:53:44

every day I learned something new and

00:53:46

every day I feel vulnerable and every

00:53:47

day there's someone choking me out and

00:53:49

making me feel uncomfortable and that's

00:53:51

kind of what got me hooked was it was

00:53:53

like

00:53:54

what I hate is I feel like I get so

00:53:56

obsessed with things that I like suck

00:53:58

the life out of them and then I feel

00:54:01

like I've like cracked it yeah like with

00:54:03

baseball I got to a point where I was in

00:54:04

the New Zealand team I was training

00:54:06

really hard I wanted to go to America

00:54:07

but like I was never going to be the

00:54:09

next Derek Judah but I had already done

00:54:12

pretty well like in New Zealand or you

00:54:14

know I'd get into golf and I'd got to

00:54:16

scratch and you know I could it's not

00:54:18

going to be tiger or yeah Ryan Fox no

00:54:21

that's the thing and like I was playing

00:54:22

with like guys like Ryan you know I was

00:54:24

in that Circle and but I wasn't quite

00:54:26

there and so I kind of did that with

00:54:28

everything in life where I was like I'm

00:54:30

what's the like saying where you like a

00:54:32

master at everything but a a jack of all

00:54:34

trades master of none master of none

00:54:36

yeah I was kind of like that like I was

00:54:37

kind of like all around pretty good at a

00:54:39

lot of things but I wasn't like epic or

00:54:42

anything

00:54:42

and I think it was because I would get

00:54:44

to that point where it was like I either

00:54:46

had to say with golf I got to a point

00:54:48

where I had to stop business and work if

00:54:50

I wanted to compete with those guys that

00:54:52

did it full time so then I get to a

00:54:53

point where I'm like ah something would

00:54:55

switch my brain I go I'm not really that

00:54:57

into that now so I still play every now

00:54:59

and then I can still do well but I lose

00:55:01

that like

00:55:02

that intense passion just to be like

00:55:05

insanely good at it which is what will

00:55:07

motivate me and so do you think if you

00:55:10

if you found something that you enjoyed

00:55:11

and you stuck with it and you kept at it

00:55:14

um you'd eventually like break through

00:55:15

and get to that next level well that's

00:55:16

where I'm with my business right

00:55:18

yeah

00:55:19

and so that's like why I love it so much

00:55:23

um and to me it's something like I see

00:55:24

myself doing a long time yeah yeah

00:55:28

um I want to get to the business but

00:55:29

first year first of all the Jiu Jitsu

00:55:31

thing so you start in like January this

00:55:32

year about February February yeah and um

00:55:35

and then then before long you're going

00:55:37

like twice a day yeah so I started geez

00:55:41

you're all you are all or nothing yes so

00:55:43

yeah my parents always make like a joke

00:55:45

like I got back into swimming I used to

00:55:48

swim quite a lot and I um

00:55:50

I kind of started going like twice a

00:55:52

week and then I started going like six

00:55:54

times a week but Dad was literally like

00:55:56

a head a bit with mum how long it would

00:55:58

take before like because I was like I'm

00:56:00

gonna go to the Masters games and like

00:56:01

then covert Heaven signed it up stopping

00:56:03

that but is it an addictive personality

00:56:06

so I'm really weird like I am super

00:56:09

addictive but then like

00:56:11

you know I'd never drank like yeah yeah

00:56:13

good addictions yeah well good and bad

00:56:16

like I think when you're too I get so

00:56:19

focused that sometimes I don't have fun

00:56:21

at things like say with golf I got to a

00:56:24

point where you know I could like break

00:56:26

power or you know play really well but

00:56:28

I'd be like kicking myself that I shot

00:56:30

one over whereas five years earlier if I

00:56:32

played with Dad socially and I shot 90

00:56:34

yeah I'd have the best day ever yeah you

00:56:37

know so now I'm trying to learn how to

00:56:38

like like I go out with my friends on

00:56:40

Fridays now and I play and I don't care

00:56:42

what I shoot and I'm not trying to be

00:56:45

yeah just try literally have fun with it

00:56:48

and so that's been something I really

00:56:50

struggle with but like you're aware it's

00:56:53

an issue and you're working on it but

00:56:55

see with the Jujitsu I started I was

00:56:57

going probably two three I think when

00:57:00

you start they like recommend that you

00:57:02

start like twice a week for a couple

00:57:03

weeks because you use all these muscles

00:57:05

like you don't even know existed so what

00:57:07

what is it like like wrestling on a map

00:57:08

is it kind of resting on a map how would

00:57:10

you say for someone that's listening to

00:57:12

this that's got no idea what Jiu Jitsu

00:57:14

is is there a way you could sum it up in

00:57:16

a sentence or two it's like a

00:57:17

ground-based grappling system

00:57:20

um so in in competition you start on

00:57:23

your feet so it's kind of like a

00:57:25

combination of Judo takedowns with like

00:57:27

wrestling sort of it is light wrestling

00:57:29

but there's submissions so you know

00:57:31

you're like I'm buying people need locks

00:57:33

choking people

00:57:36

um

00:57:36

but it's what's awesome about it is it's

00:57:39

designed so that I could be way smaller

00:57:41

than you but I use your body weight

00:57:42

against you

00:57:44

so it's actually

00:57:46

entirely practical you know every night

00:57:48

I roll with guys that you know maybe 30

00:57:50

kilos heavier than me and I can have a

00:57:52

like good spa with them and

00:57:53

you know it's like one of very very few

00:57:55

Combat Sports where I can go full to

00:57:57

every night whereas with like boxing

00:58:00

like you can't get punched in the face

00:58:01

yeah the bigger means always going to

00:58:03

win yeah and like you can't get smacked

00:58:05

in the head every night you know you'd

00:58:06

end up branded yeah whereas like with

00:58:08

this sport you can go because you tap so

00:58:11

anytime obviously like injuries happen

00:58:13

and mistakes happen but you can train

00:58:15

really really hard every night which

00:58:17

that's what I think is really cool about

00:58:18

it and I think

00:58:20

what's also awesome is you're fighting a

00:58:22

real person every night whereas you know

00:58:25

with like karate or some of these other

00:58:26

things

00:58:27

a lot of it's more learning like the

00:58:29

technique behind it but

00:58:31

I'm not taking anything away from those

00:58:33

forces no no you've just found your

00:58:34

thing yeah I just think for me it's like

00:58:37

there's a lot of genuine self-defense

00:58:40

principles you learn and I think a lot

00:58:43

of fights especially in New Zealand end

00:58:44

up on the ground you know and if someone

00:58:46

was to take me to the ground two years

00:58:48

ago I'd have no idea and that happened

00:58:50

to me in Croatia I got jumped by kind of

00:58:52

like four or five guys I've got the

00:58:54

labor supporters but yeah I just got

00:58:57

like the ship bid now to me and did you

00:58:59

actually yeah well like like when they

00:59:01

they stole your money shoes what they

00:59:02

they tried to yeah right

00:59:04

um and that was another thing that kind

00:59:06

of triggered my anxiety a completely

00:59:07

random thing they they weren't new

00:59:09

zealanders or anything though no idea

00:59:11

who I was and

00:59:13

um you hear about that stuff happening

00:59:14

overseas it's like we're talking before

00:59:15

you I mean you have to take when you

00:59:17

travel yesterday calculated risks well

00:59:19

that's the thing where you ate the pork

00:59:20

yeah yeah yeah I mean if if you sat

00:59:23

there and when I'm never going to try

00:59:24

anything or do anything different

00:59:26

because I don't want you know the risk

00:59:28

it's not a life nah and that's the thing

00:59:30

like I think the funnest things in life

00:59:32

are where

00:59:33

you know there is a bit of danger or not

00:59:35

danger but you know like you have to

00:59:36

like try new things and that's the whole

00:59:38

in my eyes that's why you travel I want

00:59:39

a new experiences and

00:59:42

um so is the Jujitsu going to be after

00:59:44

having this conversation with you it's I

00:59:46

can see the way you light up when you

00:59:48

talk about Jiu Jitsu but with everything

00:59:50

else that's been set up part of me is

00:59:51

worried you're going to get to a year

00:59:52

and like just go oh that's this I'm

00:59:55

never going to be the best in the world

00:59:56

and I'm done

00:59:58

well I feel like you've found your piece

01:00:00

with it where you can just keep where to

01:00:01

be part of your life forever or well

01:00:03

that's where I feel I mean like I went

01:00:05

to World Champs I didn't win

01:00:07

I mean it was that was tough because I

01:00:09

have only been doing a short amount of

01:00:11

time and the guy lost who was like five

01:00:13

years yeah to make to go to the world

01:00:14

Champs after doing it seven eight months

01:00:16

whatever it was yeah it sounds

01:00:17

remarkable no I was pretty stoked and I

01:00:19

did another tournament in Texas that I

01:00:20

came second at and that was like almost

01:00:22

as big as the worlds and

01:00:24

um yeah so like I I feel like I've

01:00:26

progressed like really fast for I mean

01:00:29

it's such a humbling sport like I get

01:00:31

the crap in out of me every night by

01:00:33

everyone you know and

01:00:35

the moment you feel like you're getting

01:00:37

a tiny bit better you just get smoked

01:00:38

again

01:00:40

um but to me I love the mental side of

01:00:42

it I know it sounds like really corny

01:00:44

but I don't know like

01:00:46

it's bizarre say you have some

01:00:50

120 kilo

01:00:52

just monster on top of you most nights

01:00:55

most nights yeah like choking the [ __ ]

01:00:57

out of you you learned how to like last

01:00:59

night I was like in this triangle which

01:01:01

is where people wrap their legs around

01:01:03

your neck and they like squeeze it down

01:01:04

it's awful like all the blood goes to

01:01:07

your head and you think you're gonna die

01:01:08

like but you learn to just sit there and

01:01:12

breathe and I sat there and because come

01:01:15

up with it what sit there pause and come

01:01:17

up with the strategy of how to get out

01:01:18

of it yeah because it's it's literally

01:01:20

like chess and that is why I love it so

01:01:22

much so say I go to fake like a sweep on

01:01:26

you where I'm like oh I'm gonna scissor

01:01:27

sweep you left I might set that up so

01:01:29

then you put all your weight on your

01:01:30

right leg and then I go do something

01:01:33

completely different and I baited you

01:01:35

into defending that so I attack you with

01:01:37

something different it's kind of like

01:01:38

that like I might make you look left so

01:01:40

I go right it's literally like a step in

01:01:42

rugby but with Jiu Jitsu there might be

01:01:44

eight attacks and so the black belts

01:01:46

might be faking like seven things

01:01:48

whereas I might only know three and

01:01:49

that's why the higher belts smoke

01:01:51

yourself so what color ability unit I'm

01:01:53

still white but I'm pretty close to my

01:01:54

blue right which takes normally about

01:01:56

two three years it says white the first

01:01:57

one yeah oh so you're in like a white

01:01:59

belt division at the world champs yeah

01:02:01

okay but

01:02:03

that's where like

01:02:05

it's interesting it works because you

01:02:06

get guys that like the guy I lost who

01:02:08

got promoted to Blue on the podium

01:02:11

so you know he's like a blue belt that

01:02:12

you know he'd been a white belt for five

01:02:14

years whereas you can be a purple belt

01:02:16

you nearly be black after five years

01:02:18

right so so there's there's no way of

01:02:20

accelerating the process you just you

01:02:21

have to do your time on each color it's

01:02:23

time yeah [ __ ] that must drive you crazy

01:02:25

the white and blue is skill but it

01:02:29

usually takes about two three years but

01:02:31

since I was training so much hopefully

01:02:33

do it in about a year yeah but yeah it's

01:02:35

the same when I get to Blue it's two and

01:02:36

a half years like you have to it's like

01:02:38

a you just have to be patient yeah are

01:02:40

you not very good at being patient

01:02:41

terrible yeah I'm the same yeah like how

01:02:44

much you like they're still tomorrow

01:02:45

they're still right now

01:02:47

um but that that's why I think I love it

01:02:49

so much as I

01:02:50

you know it's like what I was saying how

01:02:52

you learn how to breathe like

01:02:54

in a weird way you sit there and say

01:02:56

something really stressful happens at

01:02:57

work or like with someone you're dating

01:02:59

or

01:03:00

I don't know what it is it's just

01:03:02

subconsciously you sit there and go well

01:03:03

this isn't as bad as getting choked by

01:03:06

but you know like like with that dude's

01:03:09

thighs around my neck yeah so it's like

01:03:11

it's so weird you just go oh like

01:03:15

and like say like last night I remember

01:03:16

like when that guy was doing that it was

01:03:18

awful lot and I was so close to tapping

01:03:20

and I went because it's like this weird

01:03:22

thing where say if I'm squeezing your

01:03:23

neck to actually choke you generally

01:03:26

well not in every position but some you

01:03:28

really have to like

01:03:29

you know really Flex for like a little

01:03:31

bit or put heaps of pressure on so let's

01:03:34

say anything if you try to help me for

01:03:35

10 seconds there's a point where like

01:03:37

your forearms are going to give way so

01:03:39

it's like this game where like lots of

01:03:41

guys you fight will be expressionless so

01:03:43

you might be like a second away from

01:03:45

tapping them but you go oh it's not

01:03:47

working like I'm not in deep enough or I

01:03:48

don't know the grip right so you'll let

01:03:50

it go

01:03:51

but you might have been like a second

01:03:52

away from then tapping and so

01:03:55

that's like the kind of art of it is

01:03:58

you know

01:03:59

when you're having a poker face that's a

01:04:01

full poke face yeah and so the really

01:04:03

good guys you roll with you won't know

01:04:04

you're hurting them yeah because they'll

01:04:06

just be like and yeah different sport

01:04:07

but um at the time we're recording this

01:04:09

uh Israel out of Sanya lost his fight a

01:04:11

couple of days ago and just before that

01:04:12

was called off he was just getting

01:04:13

smacked in the face repeatedly bang bang

01:04:16

bang and he even I don't know maybe he

01:04:18

was on a different planet but he was

01:04:20

showing no no emotion yeah no emotion

01:04:22

and all not even flinching no well he I

01:04:25

saw something where he hurt the nerve I

01:04:28

think in his knee oh is that so on the

01:04:29

kick right if you re-watch it because we

01:04:31

when when he did the kick we're all like

01:04:32

oh that didn't I thought he'd broken his

01:04:34

leg

01:04:35

but

01:04:36

like imagine how much that would have

01:04:38

hurt

01:04:39

like just imagine that like yeah I don't

01:04:42

care how much adrenaline like he would

01:04:43

have been in a world of pain like that

01:04:45

was half the reason I think he got

01:04:47

Corner because I he was saying he

01:04:48

couldn't pivot and you know if you like

01:04:50

did all the yeah you'd be stuck but

01:04:53

that's the point is if he sits there and

01:04:54

goes oh my knees really sore then the

01:04:56

guy's just gonna murder him yeah punish

01:04:57

that knee Target that knee repeatedly

01:04:59

yeah and so that's kind of like the art

01:05:01

of it is you know showing no no emotion

01:05:04

and so you kind of learn say like I

01:05:08

guess where I'm going with this is when

01:05:09

I was in that position you know that if

01:05:11

you can survive

01:05:13

however long that may be you just don't

01:05:15

give up you know that they'll eventually

01:05:17

give up because

01:05:19

there's only so long you like imagine if

01:05:21

I said squeeze your bicep as hard as you

01:05:22

can there's a point where you're going

01:05:24

to stop because it just hurts and you're

01:05:26

gonna go oh what's not working

01:05:27

and so that's what I love about it is it

01:05:30

teaches me that patience and you sit

01:05:32

there and that camp I did was the most

01:05:34

awful thing I've ever done in my life

01:05:35

Mike

01:05:37

by a mile like and what was that how

01:05:39

long was the camp it was five four and a

01:05:41

half months right and I was training 10

01:05:44

to 12 three oh six till nine every night

01:05:48

oh my God every day that's your life

01:05:51

revolving around this literally well

01:05:53

because the property Market was a bit

01:05:54

dead and we were kind of in that

01:05:56

transition where I was moving mtk into

01:05:58

Stonewood key

01:06:00

um and so it was quite a quiet like

01:06:02

period for me I was still busy but you

01:06:04

know I but that was the thing I was

01:06:06

working like six or ten one till five

01:06:08

and then I was training six storms I had

01:06:10

no life I was actually training sleeping

01:06:13

eating working that's all I did like no

01:06:15

drinking no partying no friends like did

01:06:17

you enjoy it though or did you hate

01:06:19

every minute of it I loved it did you

01:06:21

like kind of sick way yeah it was weird

01:06:23

it was awful but it was awesome and

01:06:26

it would

01:06:27

I I had this weird thing when I was kid

01:06:29

I always wanted to be like a fighter jet

01:06:31

pilot or in the SAS but I'm like

01:06:33

ruthlessly colorblind and so couldn't

01:06:35

really probably still could have done

01:06:37

the SAS but I guess

01:06:38

I don't know I'd

01:06:40

it's something I regret not trying to do

01:06:44

um but I think because

01:06:46

we met a lot of the guys like through

01:06:48

dad and

01:06:50

I don't know I I didn't get talked out

01:06:52

of it but they were kind of like it's

01:06:53

brutal you know like yeah yeah you're

01:06:57

talking about like William I didn't meet

01:06:59

her but um yeah I mean the training is

01:07:01

next I'm guessing essays is similar to

01:07:03

Navy Seals on what are some docos about

01:07:05

that I think it's worse almost yeah

01:07:06

really because it's like the most

01:07:08

respected yeah [ __ ] that why would you

01:07:10

want that well and I think that was the

01:07:11

thing whereas I sat there and went like

01:07:12

oh it looks awesome and all that but

01:07:14

there's a side of it you know like

01:07:16

psychology yeah yeah and like it really

01:07:19

affects me I have you know crazy amounts

01:07:22

of respect for those guys and what you

01:07:23

know they do for the country and just

01:07:25

what they put themselves through and I

01:07:26

think when you're again young you don't

01:07:28

realize that you know it's impossible to

01:07:30

have well it's really hard to have a

01:07:31

family and the psychological effects and

01:07:34

so I didn't really think about that

01:07:35

whereas I guess

01:07:37

I got to be exposed to a bit of that so

01:07:39

it made me realize maybe it's not

01:07:41

as cool as the good bit seems yeah I'd

01:07:45

always had this weird thing where I like

01:07:46

really the idea of like doing the Navy

01:07:48

SEAL camp or something like really

01:07:50

intense like that kind of really excited

01:07:52

me I don't know why and so

01:07:56

when I kind of got because I I was doing

01:07:59

like pretty well at Jiu Jitsu like at

01:08:01

the start like I'm quite athletic so I

01:08:02

was like quite coordinated so I was

01:08:04

picking it up quite quick and

01:08:05

I kind of said since I'm like oh I'm

01:08:07

kind of keen to compete and he's like oh

01:08:09

yeah well I was gonna like invite you to

01:08:10

Worlds with us this year because I think

01:08:12

you could do really well but you got to

01:08:14

commit to this camp and it's going to be

01:08:15

the most awful thing you're doing

01:08:17

so I was kind of like yeah bring it on

01:08:18

like you know as I said I was never like

01:08:21

a wrestler or a fighter or

01:08:23

and so there's like just some weird

01:08:26

thing in my brain that would be kind of

01:08:27

cool to become like a bit of a ninja and

01:08:29

you know be a bit tougher and know how

01:08:31

to defend myself and just

01:08:33

I just wanted to go through something

01:08:34

really hard I don't know why I just

01:08:37

build more resilience yeah and so it was

01:08:40

awful like I broke my finger the first

01:08:43

week I think I broke I broke my rib like

01:08:45

two months in I caught covert a month

01:08:47

and

01:08:49

um

01:08:50

like I got tennis elbow my right arm

01:08:53

and then on top of all that you're just

01:08:55

getting the absolute because I was crap

01:08:57

then like you know and I feel I'm still

01:08:59

very bad now but yeah you're never going

01:09:02

to be worse than what you are on that

01:09:03

very first yeah and I was terrible I had

01:09:05

no idea what I was doing like absolutely

01:09:07

no idea I was still learning all the

01:09:08

basics like now now I'm at the point

01:09:10

where I'm close to my blue belt and I

01:09:12

have like I kind of know a little bit

01:09:15

about everything but nothing at the same

01:09:17

time like I I could show you all the

01:09:19

kind of moves I'd do them badly but I

01:09:21

understand it all and then from now it's

01:09:23

all like how many hours everything

01:09:24

you've done now like a few hundred oh

01:09:26

yeah I did 170 classes right which were

01:09:29

two hours so right so it's 340 there and

01:09:33

then I was I went to America for six

01:09:34

weeks and I was like living at a um at a

01:09:37

school over there I was training late

01:09:38

the whole day yeah wow um and then you

01:09:40

know there's all the gym work on top of

01:09:42

all that I saw Jimmy three times a week

01:09:43

and you know his side

01:09:46

yeah anyway so the training was

01:09:50

like just brutal like absolutely brutal

01:09:53

and

01:09:54

you know there were days I I'd be in the

01:09:56

car crying and like I couldn't feel my

01:09:58

arm and like my robe was in the cat were

01:10:00

you driving yourself like going home I'd

01:10:02

be like crawling into beard like I call

01:10:05

my Dad or Mom be like Oh I'm in so much

01:10:07

pain they're like well you're a [ __ ]

01:10:09

idiot why are you doing this you know

01:10:10

like they had no sympathy for me that's

01:10:12

amazing so I couldn't tell you the last

01:10:13

time I cried from um physical pain like

01:10:15

emotional emotional pain or even like

01:10:17

happy tears I'll cry but really you were

01:10:20

just like that broken I like mentally

01:10:22

and physically because I'm not a crier

01:10:23

like yeah it was just I mean I cry like

01:10:26

at funerals and yeah of course you know

01:10:28

but I'm not

01:10:30

like as I said I'm pretty in tune with

01:10:32

high emotion oh I'm pretty good at like

01:10:33

numbing it out but man like you do 10

01:10:36

rounds of six minutes after two hours of

01:10:38

training and a gym workout and Technical

01:10:40

Training in the morning and it's not

01:10:43

like when you're bad at golf and you

01:10:44

miss a putt and you feel like an idiot

01:10:46

you're getting choked and there's some

01:10:48

guy trying to break your arm and you

01:10:49

have a broken rib and then you just suck

01:10:53

well you give me a three pack any day

01:10:55

yeah and then you yeah take a four pack

01:10:57

and then you stand up and you've got

01:10:59

skin saving like you crap like you need

01:11:01

to work harder you're this or that and

01:11:03

you're just like

01:11:04

because they're just trying to break you

01:11:05

because it's all developing that like

01:11:06

mental touch

01:11:08

and there were some days where you know

01:11:10

you'd just be in the car and everything

01:11:12

hurt and it's 10 p.m and it was Winter

01:11:14

and you're just like why am I doing this

01:11:16

like literally why like

01:11:19

and I just got what kept you at it then

01:11:22

I don't know that sounds awful yeah well

01:11:24

like since they kind of like got us in

01:11:26

front of the whole school and he's like

01:11:28

I give him three weeks before he quit

01:11:29

and I like you're not allowed to talk

01:11:31

like it's very oh yeah yeah master and

01:11:34

Apprentice yeah very and I was like I'll

01:11:36

die before I quit in front of the holes

01:11:38

did they have like a bell like the Navy

01:11:39

cell Navy no no it's not it's not that

01:11:42

bad but because not that many people do

01:11:43

the games right but it's very like the

01:11:46

whole school knows you're doing the comp

01:11:47

and you know it's very like the comp

01:11:50

squad's like because my Sensei you know

01:11:52

I was like one six-time Oceania champ

01:11:54

and he's very respected you know he's a

01:11:56

fifth degree black belt do you think um

01:11:58

just going back to him saying in front

01:11:59

of the class that he gives you three

01:12:01

weeks or whatever do you think um you've

01:12:03

obviously you've estimate more time with

01:12:04

him now you've got more of a

01:12:05

relationship as part of that psychology

01:12:07

like you'll take you differently to

01:12:09

different yeah oh nobody say that to

01:12:11

anyone he's very like tough love yeah

01:12:14

and so in a weird way when he

01:12:19

like sure loves you he's meaner to you

01:12:22

so he I would say I get picked on more

01:12:25

at training and he's harder on me than

01:12:27

he is on other people

01:12:29

like he has high expectations of me

01:12:32

whereas there's other people that he's

01:12:33

way nicer to but he probably got you

01:12:35

yeah

01:12:37

in a weird way like my dad was like that

01:12:39

like he was really tough on me like our

01:12:41

relationship's got him better but he was

01:12:42

really like that when I was younger

01:12:44

and so

01:12:46

what was your dad like with your sister

01:12:49

it was a lot easier on here very

01:12:51

different relationship yeah I think

01:12:53

that's that's like that with a lot of

01:12:54

dads either they treat their sons

01:12:55

differently to daughters yeah very like

01:12:57

me

01:12:58

me and my sister are like bipolar

01:12:59

opposites like she's like blonde hair

01:13:01

blue-eyed Arty like loves Europe and big

01:13:05

cities and hates the warm I'm like super

01:13:09

sporty like just completely it's amazing

01:13:12

it's like but I think you find that with

01:13:14

any sort of like sibling base it's like

01:13:16

I can't believe we're [ __ ] related we

01:13:17

are so so different yeah but we are life

01:13:20

so yeah because you know how you see

01:13:21

some people like they all three of them

01:13:23

look the same they look exactly like

01:13:25

half of the parents yeah yeah oh that's

01:13:27

so sweet I like we couldn't be more

01:13:30

dissimilar because you're 27 she's older

01:13:32

than you yeah she's nearly 30. 30.

01:13:34

what's what's your relationship like you

01:13:36

see much of each other or you just have

01:13:37

like a family group chat that you

01:13:39

message on you've got a family you're

01:13:41

quite close or not particularly we go

01:13:42

through phases like growing up I don't

01:13:44

think we were but I think we were so

01:13:46

dissimilar that like with nothing in

01:13:48

common like literally nothing whereas

01:13:50

now

01:13:51

you know she'll talk to me about

01:13:53

Jiu-Jitsu and you know she'll

01:13:55

be interested in my business and I'll

01:13:57

talk about you know the stuff she's into

01:13:59

what happens when you're out I'll tell

01:14:01

you yeah yeah my age Gap becomes less

01:14:02

and less yeah and I think

01:14:04

you know we can both talk about like

01:14:06

failed relationships and you know

01:14:08

there's more

01:14:10

there's more in common because we've got

01:14:11

life in common you know like we can talk

01:14:13

about travel and things we saw and

01:14:15

whereas when you're a kid it's like

01:14:17

come play basketball with me and she's

01:14:19

like you know the girl stuff yeah yeah

01:14:21

and so it should be like come draw and

01:14:23

be like no like I bought it yeah so we

01:14:26

and we were so different that there was

01:14:28

just nothing we could see I'd like I

01:14:29

loved maths and Eco and she loved art

01:14:32

and painting and yeah so I think as a

01:14:36

kid like we were so different whereas

01:14:38

now yeah like there's so much more that

01:14:40

we but she lives in London so I mean

01:14:42

with the time zone like but we have a

01:14:44

really cool relationship like

01:14:46

you know I might only touch base once a

01:14:49

month or every couple months but you

01:14:50

know in a proper way like you know we'll

01:14:52

be in the family chat and kind of Bounce

01:14:54

stuff but it feels the same with mine I

01:14:56

got a sister that lives like three K's

01:14:57

away on point Chev and I can go for a

01:14:59

month without seeing it yeah but you

01:15:01

know that the love is there

01:15:02

um this might be a weird question this

01:15:04

might be me sort of projecting or

01:15:06

imagining myself in your shoes was there

01:15:09

a time there like when when your dad was

01:15:11

prime minister and you were getting all

01:15:12

this hate that you were resentful that

01:15:14

she was out of the country and you were

01:15:15

here taking the brunt of it no no I was

01:15:18

kind of like did it was it then

01:15:20

intentional move on her part by the way

01:15:21

like was she like I don't I want to

01:15:23

bounce

01:15:24

she managed to do like there were some

01:15:27

bits and pieces where media would like

01:15:28

should do some raunchy art or whatever

01:15:30

in Paris you know the paper would pick

01:15:32

that up but generally she was sort of

01:15:33

out of it hey yeah I think yeah I don't

01:15:35

think she wanted to be involved yeah

01:15:37

to be honest I was were you jealous of

01:15:39

that at all like there must be times

01:15:41

where you're like man why didn't I

01:15:43

no because I kind of felt like I was

01:15:47

I almost felt like like

01:15:50

in a weird way I kind of liked when I

01:15:52

copped the heat because I was like oh

01:15:53

this dad's not getting it or like at

01:15:55

least I felt like I was helping them out

01:15:57

it's so unhealthy though yeah such

01:16:00

another healthy way to think that's

01:16:01

terrible yeah like I don't know I kind

01:16:03

of I mean it's good and it's nice that

01:16:06

you're protective and stuff but yeah

01:16:07

like I'm super protective of her yeah

01:16:09

but I mean it's hard because she's an

01:16:11

older sister she moved away when I was

01:16:13

15. you know so

01:16:15

I'm not like a protective older brother

01:16:18

kind of yeah so I should look after

01:16:20

herself yeah but like I would never let

01:16:22

people like speak all of her or you know

01:16:24

anything like I'm really protective of

01:16:26

my family and so that was kind of the

01:16:27

thing like a bit of me was like well I'm

01:16:29

copping the Heap anyway so at least if

01:16:30

I'm getting it like my mom's not and you

01:16:33

know I was kind of like I am like super

01:16:35

protective over them so yeah so you've

01:16:37

developed a real thick skin how's your

01:16:39

mum is she okay she's really good yeah

01:16:40

yeah no she's awesome

01:16:42

she she seems quite like quite private

01:16:44

like you never hear much about it no she

01:16:46

she hates all that stuff yeah yeah so

01:16:49

um which is cool I think Dad and I are

01:16:51

kind of more like show ponies

01:16:55

um cheers we're gonna have to wrap this

01:16:56

up shortly but we haven't even talked

01:16:57

about your business yet so you're a

01:16:58

property developer now yeah so it's

01:17:00

what's it called Stone Stonewood key

01:17:02

Stonewood key what does that mean

01:17:04

um so I had a business called mtk

01:17:05

capital

01:17:08

yeah and so that was kind of just a

01:17:10

family business

01:17:12

well not it was designed to be you know

01:17:14

it was just dad and I and you know I was

01:17:16

kind of running it all and dad was

01:17:18

putting some like seed capital on

01:17:20

and originally when we started it was

01:17:22

like we had no staff no publicity no

01:17:24

website we were just kind of like oh

01:17:26

who's empty you know no one knew who we

01:17:28

were like the media had no idea

01:17:30

and then we got to a point where I

01:17:32

wanted to like scale things up not

01:17:34

out of the media sense but

01:17:37

just wanted to do more stuff

01:17:39

and so

01:17:40

kind of like a few stories during covert

01:17:43

and a few chats and we ended up long

01:17:45

story short was I thought part of me

01:17:48

it'd be a good idea if we got him with a

01:17:50

group homebuilder and I was like yeah we

01:17:52

might lose a bit of margin but I'm a

01:17:54

one-man band like in the company and you

01:17:57

know we can get them to project managing

01:17:58

over to see everything so that led to

01:18:00

discussions with the ciao brothers

01:18:01

because Dad knew them through business

01:18:03

and through politics and

01:18:05

you know so they own Stonewood homes

01:18:07

which they bought out of receivership a

01:18:09

couple years ago the chill brothers were

01:18:11

they the um the strip club guys yeah

01:18:13

right right yeah and so I'm well aware

01:18:15

of their previous work yeah yeah and so

01:18:19

we

01:18:21

um

01:18:23

yeah so originally what happened was we

01:18:25

were like oh that's still development

01:18:26

together and see how it goes and then it

01:18:28

was like oh here's another site let's do

01:18:30

this once you're there and so that

01:18:31

happened we ended up buying like quite a

01:18:32

few sites together and then we're all

01:18:34

kind of sitting around and we went what

01:18:35

if we like got other people's money and

01:18:37

raise money like to do this and so then

01:18:39

we sat there and went well they have

01:18:41

this really good product with Stonewood

01:18:42

and I know what I'm doing with

01:18:43

development and dad and I have this

01:18:45

really good brand and they don't have

01:18:47

the greatest personal brand but

01:18:48

stonewood's a really great brand yeah

01:18:50

why don't they have a person with a good

01:18:51

a good personal brand is it from the

01:18:53

earth from the being the underworld

01:18:54

strip club sort of yeah and I've seen

01:18:56

people like in New Zealand can be a bit

01:18:59

not like racist but I think they go ah

01:19:01

they're Chinese they're probably the

01:19:02

mafia and Triads or yeah you know like

01:19:04

these dodgy strip club guy but they're

01:19:06

actually not they're actually just

01:19:07

really hard-working grassroot

01:19:09

businessmen and that's why I partner

01:19:10

with them you know I wouldn't put my

01:19:12

name on something I didn't you know I

01:19:14

have massive respect for them and you

01:19:16

know they they brought their family out

01:19:17

of massive poverty and you cannot fault

01:19:20

their work ethic like those guys like I

01:19:22

thought I was a hard worker they'd make

01:19:23

me look like an amateur

01:19:25

and so

01:19:28

um yeah so we ended up kind of starting

01:19:30

the brand and so then what happened was

01:19:32

I started

01:19:33

kind of posting my developments and

01:19:35

because I wanted people to know that

01:19:37

you know because it was I got to this

01:19:39

point where I'd like be going out people

01:19:40

like oh do you have a job yet I'd be

01:19:42

like

01:19:42

let you build like 30 homes you know

01:19:45

like I didn't care about that so much

01:19:46

but I was like if I'm gonna start

01:19:47

raising money from the public and that's

01:19:49

kind of to like full circle back to that

01:19:51

post you said

01:19:52

that I talked about at the start with

01:19:55

your reintegration to social media we

01:19:56

said I regret some of the things I did

01:19:58

on social media yeah and that's why I

01:20:00

posted that it was more so me being like

01:20:03

you may or may not have thought whatever

01:20:05

you want to think about me when I was

01:20:06

younger but here's a Line in the Sand

01:20:07

and I was younger I did some things and

01:20:10

yeah I can get into like what you said

01:20:12

all over under that stuff but I didn't

01:20:13

really feel the need to do that I feel

01:20:14

like most people can work that out and

01:20:16

so then it was kind of like that's the

01:20:18

Line in the Sand I'm new me now and

01:20:20

that's why my social media is way more

01:20:22

corporate you know I don't post flashy

01:20:24

things like I don't know although there

01:20:25

was a happy birthday Carousel to your

01:20:27

mum the other day and there was a photo

01:20:29

there and I thought he'd definitely put

01:20:30

that there because his rig looks good

01:20:31

it's you and your mum and dad and you

01:20:34

got you got the ABS out that was that

01:20:36

makes us thirst trapping part of it

01:20:38

though is that it's actually my mum just

01:20:40

hates like photos yeah yeah so I

01:20:42

actually don't have that that many

01:20:44

photos of her well I've got them but

01:20:45

there's a lot where she's like I don't

01:20:46

want you to post that whereas I

01:20:48

literally posted that one earlier sir

01:20:49

yeah I kind of knew I could get away no

01:20:51

that's cool but yeah I mean what I say

01:20:53

it's like no one's business I think the

01:20:54

only thing the only thing that you did

01:20:56

wrong and this is something that was out

01:20:57

of your control completely is you know

01:20:59

growing up in the public eye yeah as a

01:21:01

consequence of your Dad's job which is

01:21:03

um incredibly unfair yeah

01:21:05

um but the business is going good

01:21:06

obviously it's been good the last few

01:21:08

years but now we're at the part of the

01:21:09

like property cycle it's like you would

01:21:11

have you'll know this more than me but

01:21:12

it's like very very predictable the

01:21:14

property cycle so there's a period that

01:21:16

where anyone can make money and they

01:21:18

were at the time now where like people

01:21:19

sort of get exposed

01:21:21

yeah I mean it's like the old saying you

01:21:22

never know who's swimming naked till the

01:21:23

tide goes out I've never heard that but

01:21:26

that's a good one yeah

01:21:28

um

01:21:29

it's weird I mean it depends who you are

01:21:31

I think it's easy to make money in a

01:21:33

down Market than it is in an upmarket

01:21:35

because in an upmarket like it and this

01:21:38

is what really annoys me is for the last

01:21:39

few years everyone's like almost been so

01:21:41

easy to make money but every site I

01:21:43

bought for the last like three years and

01:21:45

I think we bought 20.

01:21:47

every single one I walked out and I was

01:21:50

like oh you paid more than what you

01:21:51

wanted paid way too so you're talking

01:21:53

about buying like a a site that's got

01:21:54

like a small house on and you bulldozed

01:21:56

the house and put like a few yeah they

01:21:58

might build eight or ten or three or

01:22:00

right but every single one night like

01:22:02

every single house I bought I was like

01:22:04

oh God like you feel like you got [ __ ]

01:22:07

over on the sale price I was like why

01:22:08

did I pay that much I would go and be

01:22:10

like pay 1.3 and I'd pay one four

01:22:11

because

01:22:12

you know like you'd buy something for

01:22:15

3.2 and then you'd be like oh God like

01:22:17

every single one and then yeah we're

01:22:19

making like pretty good money the last

01:22:21

few years and everyone was like oh that

01:22:22

must have been so easy but man materials

01:22:25

were going nuts it was covered like I

01:22:27

thought you were overpaying for

01:22:28

everything like and everyone goes oh

01:22:30

it's real easy to see the down Market

01:22:31

coming for the last two years I've been

01:22:33

like tracking it being like I'm not sure

01:22:35

when

01:22:36

and Dad kind of made me

01:22:38

I won't give away all the Trade Secrets

01:22:40

but Dad made me sit there and go I want

01:22:43

you to analyze every down Market that's

01:22:45

ever happened in New Zealand because

01:22:46

he's like there's a trend he's like

01:22:48

you've got to find it so I literally

01:22:49

went through all the data of like

01:22:52

property things property crashes and I

01:22:55

found one

01:22:56

thing that was consistent in every

01:22:58

single one and I pretty much put it in

01:23:01

and I just tracked this one stat and the

01:23:04

moment it hit like a figure I was like

01:23:06

this is when it's going to turn and it

01:23:08

hit last November and from that day I

01:23:10

didn't buy anything I sold everything

01:23:12

like everything that was done I sold

01:23:14

anything that I had was doing pre-sales

01:23:16

on I sold so we got out of everything

01:23:19

pretty much at the top of the market and

01:23:21

then from that day it's only trended

01:23:22

down

01:23:23

but it's it's complicated because at the

01:23:25

same time I have 13 employees you know

01:23:29

building 186 homes I have contractors so

01:23:32

I've still done stuff since then because

01:23:34

you have to turn it over yeah but

01:23:38

it's been different to the last few

01:23:40

years where when you were making money

01:23:42

now we're just doing stuff just to

01:23:44

survive for the next few years and then

01:23:46

pick it back up yeah is this you for the

01:23:49

foreseeable future this is another Max

01:23:50

Key phase

01:23:52

bloody swimming and the softball and the

01:23:56

difference with all those things I think

01:23:57

why I got eventually

01:24:00

unmotivated with those things was I

01:24:02

didn't see the long-term goal with it

01:24:04

same with baseball instead of reach your

01:24:05

Peak you mainly yeah well I'm not gonna

01:24:07

be a pro baseball I don't even want to

01:24:08

be well I did when I was like young

01:24:10

but I was like it's actually a really

01:24:12

tough lifestyle like professional sports

01:24:13

ruthless

01:24:14

like I have so much respect for guys

01:24:16

actually do it it's tough I mean there's

01:24:17

always someone younger better you know

01:24:19

if you go through a slump you might get

01:24:21

[ __ ] that's a hell of a game I mean at

01:24:23

the time of recording this just

01:24:24

yesterday Martin guptill who's been a

01:24:25

black cat for the last 10 years he's

01:24:27

been axed for the summer series oh sure

01:24:29

yeah yeah it's brutal and yeah you have

01:24:31

the coach on TV talking about why he's

01:24:33

replaced you with someone younger yeah

01:24:34

and that's brutal and so

01:24:37

I think with all those things I've just

01:24:38

got to motivated with the sport because

01:24:40

you know maybe I hit my like

01:24:42

physical potential or as I said there

01:24:45

was only so much I could train or you

01:24:47

know for all those things whereas with

01:24:48

this it's a bit different because

01:24:51

I want to be on property for the next 40

01:24:53

years I'm not saying I'm going to build

01:24:55

three bedroom townhouses for the next 40

01:24:57

years you know maybe I'll get into

01:24:58

commercial property or maybe I'll do big

01:25:01

Lan subdivisions I have no idea what two

01:25:05

years ago I was doing Villa Renovations

01:25:06

and I was like I'd never build a new

01:25:08

build and now I'm doing 186 you know so

01:25:10

I I think it will keep Reinventing

01:25:13

itself but I love the industry and you

01:25:16

know I'm loving my company and

01:25:18

yeah definitely it's definitely

01:25:19

something I'll be in for a very long

01:25:22

time but how that looks in 10 years God

01:25:24

I have no idea

01:25:25

who yeah who knows who knows who knows

01:25:28

do you think the property prices will

01:25:30

keep sort of doubling for the next 10

01:25:31

years so if you're looking uh like past

01:25:34

history like the last 40 years or

01:25:35

whatever they tend to sort of double in

01:25:37

price more or less every 10 years yeah I

01:25:39

think they I feel like we can flip over

01:25:41

one more time maybe two more times but

01:25:42

then what do you think

01:25:44

so I think that's an interesting

01:25:46

question that's kind of like the money

01:25:47

question so for it to double every 10

01:25:49

years it's roughly like eight percent

01:25:51

yeah

01:25:52

so if you think about it every year by

01:25:56

that metric you're getting like eight

01:25:57

percent rise in price

01:25:59

so in say the last two years you've seen

01:26:01

30 or 50 or you know different areas of

01:26:05

you know had different different prices

01:26:07

but

01:26:08

my prediction on it you know and this is

01:26:10

just my opinion

01:26:12

I see in the next couple years I don't

01:26:15

necessarily see this big crash

01:26:16

everyone's talking about but prices

01:26:17

might not move for two years which with

01:26:20

interest rates and inflation you are

01:26:22

your real value is going down

01:26:23

technically like in a real money sense

01:26:25

you're losing money but in terms of

01:26:28

actual house price I don't see you own a

01:26:30

1.7 million dollar house it's going to

01:26:32

be worth 1.2 because this is a big thing

01:26:36

obviously that's ignoring that you can't

01:26:40

pay your interest and you get like

01:26:41

mortgages selled and you have to sell

01:26:43

because you have no money that because

01:26:45

at that point at the Mark the moment the

01:26:47

Market's a liquid so yeah there will be

01:26:49

people that will crater their house

01:26:51

prices but that's not because the market

01:26:53

stuff that's because personal

01:26:54

circumstance yeah my view on it is if

01:26:57

you said to me right now say like this

01:26:59

apartment building room right now if you

01:27:01

said how much would it cost you to

01:27:02

rebuild this

01:27:04

well there's no way I could rebuild this

01:27:05

right now for what the guy built it for

01:27:07

so why would he sell it any lower than

01:27:10

the replacement value because from a

01:27:13

building perspective you can't replace

01:27:14

it and so there's a point where okay

01:27:17

prices might not go up and they should

01:27:18

go down but what will happen eventually

01:27:21

is people will go well I don't want to

01:27:23

buy this because I don't want to build a

01:27:24

new house because it's going to cost me

01:27:26

like so much just too much and so what

01:27:29

happens yeah and so then the suppliers

01:27:31

like myself we stopped building for a

01:27:33

bit but then all that means is there's

01:27:35

no Supply but there's the demand will

01:27:37

keep going so then that brings prices

01:27:38

back up so I just don't see how I don't

01:27:41

see how prices could ever go down the

01:27:43

only way I see prices actually ever

01:27:44

moving is if material prices go down but

01:27:47

they're only ever going to keep going up

01:27:48

there's no way that Timber halves in the

01:27:50

next five years no and of course even

01:27:52

with yeah just in inflation inflation

01:27:55

yeah it will just keep going and so in

01:27:58

my view all that will happen is Supply

01:28:00

will fluctuate depending on the demand

01:28:03

and at the moment you got this message

01:28:05

this equilibrium where the vendor's

01:28:07

expectation you know are completely

01:28:08

different to what they'll probably

01:28:09

actually sell it for and that's why

01:28:11

nothing's moving but eventually then

01:28:13

what happens is you know you've seen

01:28:14

William Scorpio from 800 to 500 homes

01:28:16

you know we're reducing how many we're

01:28:18

doing everyone's no one's going to be

01:28:21

going oh let's buy 50 sites right now so

01:28:23

Supply in 18 months will massively

01:28:25

reduce and then what will happen is say

01:28:27

that the market starts picking up

01:28:28

interest rates have kind of at least

01:28:30

somewhat

01:28:31

got more stable well from there it's

01:28:34

like

01:28:36

you know at that point

01:28:38

the market will you know demand slowly

01:28:40

starts creeping up and then if there's

01:28:41

no Supply that brings price back up and

01:28:44

that's what I see happening I just think

01:28:45

for the next couple years it might just

01:28:47

be a bit more quiet yeah absolutely and

01:28:49

um your price is going up now no one

01:28:51

actually loses or makes money until you

01:28:52

sell do you well that was my point is if

01:28:54

you get like a hospital pass and you

01:28:56

have to sell like say you get divorced

01:28:57

and yeah lose your job lose your job or

01:29:00

you can't you know you over leverage

01:29:02

yourself that's the whole swimming naked

01:29:03

thing and so that's where at the moment

01:29:06

you're seeing these people they got

01:29:07

caught short you know say they're boring

01:29:09

well think about you had a million

01:29:11

dollar mortgage at say two percent and

01:29:13

you're you know that might have cost you

01:29:14

20 grand a year

01:29:15

well if you have a household income of a

01:29:17

hundred you know it's pretty easy well

01:29:19

that Mortgage in six months might be 80

01:29:21

grand a year yeah yeah those people go

01:29:24

effects day yeah well how are they going

01:29:25

to pay that and so then what happens is

01:29:27

they go I have to sell and this is the

01:29:29

thing with property and this is what I

01:29:31

always get into arguments with people

01:29:32

about they always go is my house going

01:29:34

to be worthless I don't think the value

01:29:36

of your house ever changes in my eyes

01:29:38

what I think changes is all that matters

01:29:41

at the end of this what will someone pay

01:29:42

for it on the day and the Market's never

01:29:44

wrong if you listed this house or this

01:29:46

apartment right now today whatever

01:29:47

someone pays for it that's the market

01:29:49

because on that day that's what people

01:29:51

are actually willing to pay for it and

01:29:53

so in my eyes oh you sound like a real

01:29:55

estate agent that's so annoying well

01:29:56

that's what the market tells us it's

01:29:57

worth yeah but it's true though like you

01:29:59

can do all these spreadsheet exercise I

01:30:01

mean I think it's worth 1.4 but at the

01:30:03

end of the day it's what will people on

01:30:04

the day pay for it and so right now

01:30:07

you've got so much Supply on the market

01:30:09

there's hundreds of homes everywhere and

01:30:11

there's not that many buyers so they

01:30:13

have ample choice

01:30:14

so if like if I had a hundred iPhones

01:30:17

and I came to you and I went

01:30:18

I'll sell you this phone for a hundred

01:30:21

bucks and I've got a hundred of them

01:30:22

well you're going to be in a rush to buy

01:30:24

it no whereas if I go I'll give it to

01:30:26

you for 80 bucks you might go oh think

01:30:28

about it that seems kind of good whereas

01:30:30

if I come to you and I go this is the

01:30:31

last iphone in the country it's worth

01:30:33

100 bucks but I have 50 people outside

01:30:36

right now waiting to buy it and if you

01:30:38

don't buy I'll sell it's one of them 110

01:30:40

well you'll you'll buy it yeah for sure

01:30:42

and that's literally what's happened in

01:30:44

the property market last year there was

01:30:45

no Supply you know I listed the house in

01:30:47

Mount Albert there were three homes in

01:30:48

Mount Albert for sale at the time there

01:30:50

were hundreds and hundreds of buyers you

01:30:52

had low interest rates cheap money

01:30:53

everyone wanting to buy like a tangible

01:30:55

asset prices went through the roof and

01:30:58

now you just have crazy amounts of

01:31:00

Supply because everyone's going holy

01:31:01

[ __ ] I can't afford my mortgage I want

01:31:03

to get out and so they're trying to sell

01:31:06

and then now supply has gone through the

01:31:07

roof and then buyers sit there and go

01:31:09

well

01:31:09

I don't need to buy something that's

01:31:11

well priced I just I'll you know I'll

01:31:14

get a deal

01:31:15

and then eventually what happens is the

01:31:16

people start bleeding and they go holy

01:31:18

[ __ ] I can't afford my mortgage

01:31:20

maybe I just have to get out and then

01:31:22

the banks call and go well you ask 800

01:31:24

Grand so if you sell it for 801 you're

01:31:28

you're taking that and that's the whole

01:31:30

thing where that's we real estate agents

01:31:32

get annoying but it's true it's that's

01:31:33

the market yeah and if you went right

01:31:35

now I have to sell this apartment

01:31:36

tomorrow

01:31:38

well at that point the price is probably

01:31:40

much much it's like you own a car

01:31:42

yeah it becomes like a fire sale

01:31:44

situation doesn't it well it's all well

01:31:45

and good that it might be worth 100

01:31:46

Grand but that doesn't mean someone's

01:31:47

going to pay that yeah you know and then

01:31:49

if it's like it's it's all about

01:31:51

liquidity if you need that money soon

01:31:53

well you have to get someone to hit the

01:31:55

bit and to do that you have to lower

01:31:57

your price and so that's why I think

01:31:59

it's complicated I don't think house

01:32:00

prices decrease I just think the real

01:32:02

value of what people are willing to pay

01:32:04

decreases yeah but Adventures I said

01:32:06

then Supply will stop and then it flips

01:32:08

and then it goes back up I can tell

01:32:10

you're passionate about it yeah you're

01:32:12

into it hey yeah you love it yeah um

01:32:14

we're gonna oh I haven't even asked you

01:32:16

what's your relationship like with

01:32:17

running are you do you run at all has

01:32:20

running ever been part of your life I'm

01:32:21

a terrible Runner if I'm being honest

01:32:22

you've never done it for Fitness you

01:32:24

don't enjoy it I get really like I don't

01:32:27

know what it is I know whether it's like

01:32:28

you're really tight shins when I run and

01:32:30

so I've just you know how some people

01:32:33

like I'm sure like you like glide on

01:32:35

their feet and it looks all Majestic I

01:32:37

am like I'm like heavy ass like it's

01:32:41

just not something I'm I don't I was

01:32:43

always a good swimmer but yeah running's

01:32:45

never been

01:32:46

like I like sprinting and explosive

01:32:48

stuff but the shorter the better well

01:32:50

I'd always I'd always go through this

01:32:52

phases around but I'm gonna be a runner

01:32:53

like I'm gonna get into it and man my

01:32:55

like I just would get this pain in my

01:32:57

shins

01:32:58

I don't know what I

01:33:00

I think I have I would sing say just run

01:33:02

through it he would and I I did that

01:33:05

I couldn't like walk so I don't know I

01:33:09

think

01:33:09

I think I have something where my knees

01:33:12

hyperextend backwards or something and

01:33:14

that does something to like

01:33:15

my ankle and then that cause I don't

01:33:18

know what it but I think I could

01:33:19

probably get shoes that

01:33:21

because I had a friend that had

01:33:22

something similar and he got some like

01:33:23

implant in a shoe and it like fully

01:33:25

fixed it right well I'm glad I left the

01:33:27

ranch head to the end it was a bit of a

01:33:29

dead end not a lot there and um our last

01:33:31

one has um how's your your

01:33:33

um love life are you in a good place at

01:33:35

the moment are you seeing anyone nah

01:33:37

very single yeah yeah and happy to be

01:33:39

single

01:33:39

yeah I mean do you thought you'd find it

01:33:41

hard to meet genuine people or is that

01:33:43

something that plays on the back of your

01:33:44

mind I used to sort them out fairly

01:33:45

quickly yeah I I used to find that I

01:33:47

think now I roll in circles where like

01:33:49

you know I meet the right people and you

01:33:52

know I'm not actually too worried about

01:33:54

that

01:33:55

um

01:33:55

have you got like um because you seem

01:33:58

like a bit of a goal set on a planner

01:33:59

like if you've got a figure in the back

01:34:00

of your mind like you by the time you're

01:34:02

30 you want to be with

01:34:03

because your parents are quite Young

01:34:04

when they got together yeah they met

01:34:06

when they were 15 and 17. right well

01:34:08

yeah that's a great relationship too

01:34:10

like yeah a lot a lot of people that

01:34:11

meet that young they just end up growing

01:34:13

apart well that that's what I think my

01:34:15

sister and I find hard was we always had

01:34:17

this preconceived idea that you know you

01:34:19

need to be with someone for 20 years and

01:34:21

50 years and you find the one well

01:34:24

ideally that I think that's what

01:34:25

everyone sort of wants don't they yeah

01:34:27

so I mean I don't know I

01:34:30

half of me loves being single and half

01:34:32

of me kind of because you're a party boy

01:34:35

yeah I love that you're that party boy

01:34:37

all up in there yeah I part of it's like

01:34:40

I don't really have time like I found

01:34:41

I've been dating some people this year

01:34:42

and

01:34:43

like I probably

01:34:45

you know I wasn't giving them enough

01:34:47

time and you know my mind would be on

01:34:49

business and you know the Jujitsu or

01:34:52

I feel like when I was younger I really

01:34:54

tried to make relationships work

01:34:56

I would like I've always felt like it's

01:34:58

the one area of my life I haven't

01:35:00

succeeded you know like I've always done

01:35:02

my own business I've always done my

01:35:03

academically in sport but I've had

01:35:06

shocking relationships yeah well I feel

01:35:08

like everything and everyone sort of

01:35:10

comes into your into your life at the

01:35:11

right time for the right reason yeah so

01:35:13

maybe you'll meet a person when you

01:35:14

least expected who's just equally as

01:35:16

driven that also doesn't have that much

01:35:18

time for a partner yeah well that's

01:35:20

where it's been hard as I've dated

01:35:21

people that are very goal driven and

01:35:24

similar and

01:35:25

you know sometimes that clashes and then

01:35:27

I've dated people that are really chill

01:35:30

and the complete opposite of me and then

01:35:32

you know that kind of I don't know like

01:35:35

yeah it's weird but I'm not when I was

01:35:38

younger I used to hate being single

01:35:39

whereas now

01:35:41

like I don't even go out or I'm not on

01:35:43

dating apps or anything

01:35:45

but I'm kind of just like loving my life

01:35:47

yeah did you find that was that a

01:35:49

blessing or a curse to go on like dating

01:35:51

apps well half the time people would

01:35:52

just think I was like a fake product oh

01:35:54

okay yeah but I mean like I had success

01:35:57

on the like like I guess having the

01:35:59

public profile helps but yeah there must

01:36:01

have been a time they were your DMs were

01:36:02

crazy yeah

01:36:05

but now like I just don't really elicit

01:36:08

that kind of attention from people now

01:36:10

so

01:36:11

I don't really notice it and I feel like

01:36:13

social media has changed a lot I don't

01:36:14

know about your engagement but mine's

01:36:15

like gone down a lot and oh on Instagram

01:36:17

yeah definitely yeah I've been sitting

01:36:19

on the same same number for maybe six

01:36:21

months yeah no um I think like two three

01:36:23

years I've kind of been

01:36:25

you know and even like I find like my

01:36:27

engagement on like people don't reply to

01:36:28

as much stuff or I just think the

01:36:30

algorithms change yeah sure

01:36:32

um

01:36:33

but yes I think I don't know I'm just at

01:36:36

a point now where I'm really like I do

01:36:37

what I want and if someone wants to fit

01:36:39

into there that's cool like but it's not

01:36:41

you're not tight with what I post I

01:36:43

don't sit there and go oh like I wonder

01:36:45

if a chick thinks this is cool like I'm

01:36:48

like I'm interested in this yeah follow

01:36:50

me like I'm gonna post it I believe that

01:36:53

about you and I believe you're at a

01:36:55

point now in your life where you

01:36:55

genuinely don't don't care too much

01:36:57

about what other people think no um

01:36:59

because yeah I mean that tall poppy

01:37:01

thing we talked before I feel like with

01:37:03

you you're in a loser situation like you

01:37:04

set up your own business and people that

01:37:06

hate you're going to be like oh yeah

01:37:07

well you're easy to do that when you

01:37:09

yeah and then if the business fails

01:37:11

everyone's like oh he'll be fine he's

01:37:13

got his dad yeah you know so it's like

01:37:15

you're damned if you do damned if you

01:37:16

don't well that's why you you're

01:37:18

genuinely not bothered by that now oh

01:37:20

not that stuff I mean if I failed a

01:37:22

business I'd be more gutted that my

01:37:23

business failed than that son you know

01:37:26

like the embarrassment Factor yeah I

01:37:27

don't care about that and what we got it

01:37:28

I probably lost money at that point yeah

01:37:30

you know

01:37:31

but now I just think you got to do

01:37:34

whatever you want in life you know like

01:37:37

I know some guy wants to sit at home and

01:37:39

mock what I do or I'm living my life and

01:37:41

he's watching mine so

01:37:43

I'd rather to me failure is not

01:37:45

something I would like care about

01:37:47

I think I think failure is something

01:37:49

that um I think the whole world would be

01:37:52

a better place if people were less

01:37:53

afraid of it and more into embracing it

01:37:55

I'm sorry you learned the most yeah I'm

01:37:57

so grateful for all my biggest failures

01:37:58

yeah I know that's like super cliche but

01:38:01

I mean like driving to that Jiu Jitsu

01:38:03

room for the very first time like you

01:38:05

you knew you were you were heading

01:38:07

towards a fail I felt like such an idiot

01:38:08

yeah and I was sitting there I'd never

01:38:10

watched Jiu Jitsu like it's not a great

01:38:11

spectator sport because you know it's

01:38:13

very technical and if you don't like I

01:38:15

love it now but it's still not great

01:38:17

like if you ask my parents oh watch

01:38:19

they'll be like no idea just rolling

01:38:22

around with this blue bathroom

01:38:26

there's a saying I really like I saw

01:38:28

this on Instagram it's called the 1840

01:38:30

60 Rule and it's 18. everyone worries

01:38:32

about what everyone else thinks about

01:38:33

them at 40 people stop worrying about

01:38:36

what people think about them and just do

01:38:38

what they want then at 60 you realize no

01:38:40

one was thinking about you at all your

01:38:41

room was just busy thinking about what

01:38:43

everyone else was thinking about them

01:38:44

well that's actually what I realized I

01:38:46

think when I was traveling was

01:38:48

I got to this point where the first like

01:38:50

month I was like to all my friends at

01:38:52

every download oh my God I'm here oh my

01:38:54

God like and I was like chatting my

01:38:56

parents and like because it was so

01:38:57

exciting and then it got to a point

01:38:59

where like my parents stopped replying

01:39:00

to me you know like they might reply

01:39:01

like a day later or like kind of ignore

01:39:03

what I'd said yeah and I kind of got to

01:39:06

this point I was sitting I was like

01:39:07

holy [ __ ] like my own parents don't

01:39:10

really that bored of your travels yeah

01:39:12

and I'm like so why would some guy I've

01:39:14

never met him possibly give a [ __ ] and

01:39:16

that's literally what got me to the

01:39:18

point I was like why like I'm like why

01:39:20

do I care about social media

01:39:22

because back then I was just doing it

01:39:23

not for like attention but it was kind

01:39:25

of just for validation whereas now with

01:39:27

social media like people go oh he's back

01:39:29

on it blah blah blah blah but it like

01:39:31

directly impacts my sales you know if I

01:39:34

can get brand exposure now I make money

01:39:36

my business does a bit of like there is

01:39:38

like a a very direct link and my whole

01:39:42

plan all along was always to build a

01:39:44

brand and build like a profile and then

01:39:46

I had options

01:39:47

you know for the rest of my life I can

01:39:49

do exactly what I've done now and Dad

01:39:51

actually it was really funny because I'm

01:39:53

running kind of social media and sales

01:39:55

and marketing for our company obviously

01:39:57

still involved and all the other stuff

01:39:58

but that's kind of where I that's the

01:40:00

team I look after and Dad she sat me

01:40:02

down the other day because he always

01:40:03

used to have got me for social media

01:40:05

like he'd always be like why are you

01:40:06

doing this you're so obsessed with this

01:40:07

or

01:40:08

but I was again obsessed with like the

01:40:10

analytics of it or not they're like oh

01:40:12

my God I got a light to me a like was

01:40:14

business and yeah and he was like isn't

01:40:17

this funny he's like I used to give you

01:40:18

so much [ __ ] about this it makes you so

01:40:20

mad at you and he's like now you're like

01:40:22

such a wizard like you just understand

01:40:23

it all like you kind of know how to get

01:40:26

people hyped and yeah he was probably

01:40:28

mad at you though like a particular

01:40:30

parent sort of thing because he knew

01:40:31

about the negative consequences yeah

01:40:32

totally and he was he didn't see the

01:40:34

value in it whereas now I always sat

01:40:36

there and went this is going to be the

01:40:37

tool we use but even in saying that I

01:40:39

feel like social media is dying you know

01:40:41

I feel like stuff like this is like

01:40:42

blowing up you know like podcasts and

01:40:45

yeah that long form conversation yeah

01:40:47

and by the way thanks for coming on

01:40:48

today because I've um I I have have you

01:40:51

have you been on a podcast before is

01:40:53

this your first one

01:40:54

I don't think so I did

01:40:56

I remember I did a thing with Aziz Aziz

01:40:59

on like mental health right and that was

01:41:02

like quite a long I've done like

01:41:04

interviews I guess yeah

01:41:06

um like I did one with Samantha Hayes

01:41:09

which was quite like a long form

01:41:10

conversation you know it was like an

01:41:12

hour or so but no I've never I don't

01:41:13

think I've ever done like a podcast

01:41:14

podcast yeah well I appreciate you being

01:41:16

here today I appreciate you being so

01:41:18

open and I can honestly say hand on

01:41:20

heart like all the times I've met you

01:41:21

over the years from the age of what 14

01:41:23

13 yeah to now like you've never been um

01:41:26

anything but you know kind and nice and

01:41:28

just a good person so thank you for that

01:41:30

yeah cheers it was cool I appreciate it

01:41:32

thanks Max Key

01:41:33

[Music]

01:41:49

thank you

In this episode of "Runners Only," Dom Harvey and Max Key dive into the intriguing life of Max, son of former New Zealand Prime Minister John Key. With a blend of humor and candidness, Max reflects on his unique upbringing, sharing stories of growing up in the public eye, the perks and pressures of having a famous father, and the challenges of navigating teenage life under constant scrutiny. From his early memories of political events to the surreal experiences of meeting world leaders and sports icons, Max provides an honest look at the complexities of his childhood.

As the conversation unfolds, Max opens up about the emotional toll of public life, discussing his struggles with mental health and the impact of social media on his identity. He candidly shares his journey of self-discovery, including a pivotal moment in the Bahamas that led him to reevaluate his life choices and take a break from social media. The episode also touches on his newfound passion for Jiu-Jitsu, illustrating how it has become a source of personal growth and resilience.

Listeners will find themselves captivated by Max's reflections on family dynamics, the pressures of expectations, and the importance of finding one's own path. With a mix of humor, vulnerability, and insight, this episode is a compelling exploration of identity, privilege, and the quest for authenticity in a world that often demands conformity.

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Episode Highlights

Growing Up in Politics
Max Key shares his experience growing up with a father in politics, revealing how normal it felt to him.
“I just grew up with it, so it didn’t feel that weird.”
@ 01m 16s
February 19, 2023
The Complexity of Happiness
Max discusses the challenges of finding happiness despite having a privileged upbringing.
“Finding happiness is harder because you have a lot of the things that most people spend their life just trying to achieve.”
@ 12m 12s
February 19, 2023
The Burden of Fame
Navigating the pressures of being in the spotlight and the impact on mental health.
“I couldn’t talk to anyone and be like oh how do I deal with getting abused by 50 year old men on Facebook?”
@ 23m 47s
February 19, 2023
A Moment of Clarity
Sitting alone on a beach, he confronts his feelings of numbness and confusion.
“I just started crying and I was like this is the weirdest thing ever.”
@ 30m 53s
February 19, 2023
Social Media Detox
Max discusses his decision to step back from social media to focus on genuine happiness.
“I just got to a point where I was like...”
@ 34m 51s
February 19, 2023
The Bubonic Plague Experience
Max reveals a shocking health scare while traveling, leading to a deeper understanding of his health.
“I caught the Bubonic plague when I was in Bosnia.”
@ 43m 46s
February 19, 2023
Finding Balance in Competition
Struggling with perfectionism, the speaker learns to enjoy activities without the pressure of being the best.
“I'm trying to learn how to have fun with it.”
@ 56m 45s
February 19, 2023
The Art of Jiu Jitsu
Jiu Jitsu teaches you to breathe and strategize under pressure, making it a mental game.
“It's literally like chess.”
@ 01h 01m 22s
February 19, 2023
Sibling Dynamics
Despite their differences, the bond between siblings grows stronger over time.
“We couldn’t be more dissimilar, but the love is there.”
@ 01h 15m 02s
February 19, 2023
Navigating Market Challenges
The speaker reflects on the difficulties of buying properties in a fluctuating market.
“Every single house I bought, I was like, oh God, like you feel like you got [ __ ] over.”
@ 01h 22m 04s
February 19, 2023
Understanding Property Value
The speaker shares insights on how market conditions affect perceived property value.
“I don’t think the value of your house ever changes.”
@ 01h 29m 36s
February 19, 2023
Embracing Failure
Failure is something the world would be better off embracing rather than fearing.
“I think the whole world would be a better place if people were less afraid of it”
@ 01h 37m 52s
February 19, 2023

Episode Quotes

Key Moments

Happiness Challenges12:12
Social Media Pressure20:40
Identity Quest33:16
Health Scare43:46
Future Aspirations1:24:51
Value Insights1:29:36
Life Lessons1:37:58
Aging Perspective1:38:36

Words per Minute Over Time

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