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America's Cup Winner Dean Barker || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey

June 10, 2023 / 01:23:00

Video

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hey Runners only with dime Harley

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Runners only with dom Harvey and Dean

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Barker g'day mate hey Dom how are you

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I'm very well I I can't thank you enough

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for coming over I feel like you're one

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of these people most people in New

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Zealand are familiar with the name or

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the face maybe people see you out and

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about and they're like I know that face

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from somewhere because that's how long

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you've you've been around but I feel

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like no one knows a lot a lot about you

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you are by Design like a reasonably

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private guy so I was honored when you

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agreed to come on the podcast yeah no

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it's good nice to uh nice to be able to

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sit and have a chat with you yeah is

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that a fear thing to say though you're

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like you know quite a private guy

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um yeah we've uh we've always you know

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men and I've always been you know

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probably respected our privacy a lot you

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know um yeah obviously we're very

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fortunate we've had a lot of I guess

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public interest in different things that

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we've been doing you know with the

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sports and things over the years

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um

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you know and as you said I guess start

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to

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um you know maybe not be as active in

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the sporting front and things you know

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it's still been amazing the support that

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we've we've had you know over the years

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yeah yeah and

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um you're here this chat was organized

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by Bow cancer NZ which has become a

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charity that you've sort of become I

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don't know I suppose you've sort of

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attached your your face to it it's

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probably something you'd rather not but

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you know you end up in this position

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where you had bowel cancer so you're

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using your name uh and your reputation

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for for good which is fantastic yeah it

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was it was quite an interesting one

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um

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you know obviously I uh at the time when

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I sort of went through that all about

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cancer

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um diagnosis and treatment and things

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were up in the us at the time

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um you know we we very much kept it a

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very private thing you know it was only

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a lot of you know very close friends and

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family that sort of knew anything about

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it

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um

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it was a year ago really where I saw the

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promotion around the movie Buck campaign

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um with Jeannie Mae coffin sort of um

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fronting and really felt quite compelled

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to to try to to do a little bit in some

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way to help raise awareness around bowel

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cancer because it is a very curable

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disease if it's um early enough and uh

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and I think the

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the biggest motivation is you know like

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I was very very lucky because we had

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really good access to the medical

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profession up in in the US you know as a

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result of being involved with the

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America's Cup team

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um yeah so you were involved with um

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American magic at the time he was with

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American magic and so you know we've got

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really good access to uh to the

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different doctors and things and because

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we're able to get onto it early it gave

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me a much better chance to um you know

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to be able to

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uh deal with it fight it and um and

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hopefully you know go on and have a sort

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of a full full and long life but it's um

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you know unfortunately you know the Kiwi

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sort of attitude you know keeping male

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attitude of she'll be right mate

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um it isn't always uh isn't always the

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case you know and and I think um you

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know the one thing that I've learned

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over over at all and everything else has

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just been over you know been aware of

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your body listening to your body and if

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something's not right go and get cheap

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yeah have you been mostly good at that

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or do you think you've you know you're

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ashamed to say you're a little in a

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little bit [ __ ] with it I'm [ __ ] with it

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you know like I've always been that way

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you know you sort of um you know you

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just always think oh yeah for it healthy

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whatever it might be and that you'll be

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able to deal with it uh whatever it

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might be

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um in this particular case

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um you know it wasn't

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it wasn't something that um you know it

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was just going to come right you know I

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noticed a bit of blood in my stool which

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is you know obviously not one of those

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things that you're normally comfortable

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talking about but it's um

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uh and after you know it had been there

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for what three four weeks you know I

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finally actually did something about it

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three to four weeks okay so I was

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planning on um doing this podcast

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instead of chronological order going all

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the way back and then working our way so

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since since we're there already we may

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as well um stick with it yeah sorry

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sorry to sort of jump oh no no no no no

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no no no it's it's great and I think

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it's a really good message so it's

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probably good to get this done at the

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start before we get to the fun stuff of

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your life so um yes so you're training

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with America magic getting ready for the

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America's Cup campaign

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um and then you see you're not feeling

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unwell you've just got blood in your

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stool

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what was really stupid with the whole

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thing is I've probably had never felt

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fitter than I had at the time had been

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training you know really enjoying the

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training we'd been busy with the sailing

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we're in the process of moving from our

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summer training base which is a Newport

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Rhode Island and we would

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um so uh with Mandy and the kids we were

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relocating we were doing the drive down

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through the US to Pensacola and Florida

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uh redneck Riviera so that was um that

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was pretty because we had a four drive a

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four day drive down there but it was I

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sort of nice A little a few little

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things going on just um before we left

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Newport

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um still going on when we got to

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Pensacola you know still still there and

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it was like well

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I'll go and go and see the doctor and um

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and just you know try and figure out

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what was going on so it was um

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yeah again it was one of those things we

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just sort of thought no I'm fat healthy

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eating well sleeping well you know

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everything was kind of normal but um

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you're feeling fine feeling fine yeah

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there was no there was nothing else

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going on did you did you say anything to

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Mandy your wife like oh I've got some no

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no because it's a bit embarrassing you

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know like you sort of even even though

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it's sort of you know because you sort

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of think oh but you know you know that

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if you if you said to your wife oh this

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this blood in my in my shirt she's

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probably gonna make you go to the doctor

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immediately right she would have I'm

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sure yeah um but it's just one of those

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really you know it's hard to explain

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yeah it's sort of it's there it feels

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you know it's sort of not you know a

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great uh dinner table discussion

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um so um you know you um you just keep

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it to us yeah and you sort of go and I'm

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sure it'll sort itself out and um you

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know and so it didn't and then so I sort

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of started the process you can Google it

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on your phone or anything like you if

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you Google like your blood and stall on

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on your phone the results are never

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going to be good no and and I didn't um

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again probably because in a little bit

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of denial sort of thinking well it's

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probably just yeah it'll be nothing

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it'll go away and then we're back to

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normal but um

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you know the the where I became a Google

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doctor was sort of a little bit you know

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further down the track after

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you know I'd sort of been through the

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process of um seeing the gastronomical

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doctor the colonoscopy and everything

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after else after that

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this um there's parallels between um

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your story and Lance Armstrong the the

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cyclist like he yeah hopefully not quite

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too many parallels but yeah early on

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here so he um famously had artisticular

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cancer and if you read his book he talks

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about his like testicles like swelling

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to the size of grapefruits and he's just

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constantly used to being in pain from

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being on the saddle six to seven hours a

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day so just ignored it and kept on

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riding through

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um similarities there I wonder if it's

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like a high performance sort of thing

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where you guys are just used to

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um yeah

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for me again there was there was no

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negative sort of impacts of of you know

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what I was dealing with so it wasn't

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like um

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you know I felt unwell needed to go and

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get checked out or anything it was just

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purely like uh you know just almost like

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a

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um a side effects sort of thing it was a

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sort of in the background and uh

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but yeah just didn't didn't really think

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too much of it so so you get on the um

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the medical treadmill you're going to

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see a doctor you have that initial

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conversation

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um when when does it become apparent

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that things are bad

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um well the the high in some ways the

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frustrating thing was that you know the

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the doctors are incredibly upbeat the

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whole way through and I know you'll be

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fine this is just um you know so the

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gastronomical doctor said it's probably

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uh probably just hemorrhoids um and you

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yeah you go away so you're thinking oh

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great you know but he go out of

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precaution will get you in for a

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colonoscopy and that was going to be

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three months down the track

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um so you know clearly there was no

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urgency on his side and

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um

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uh so then I went back and saw the

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Doctor Who was sort of aligned with the

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American magic team he said no it's not

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not okay we want we want to push us

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through so with his contacts you know I

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was in getting a colonoscopy the

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following week

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and um so you're in the uh

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um what does what does that involve by

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the way so the the colonoscopy it's sort

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of you know like everyone thinks of it

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and probably in the worst worst way you

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know basically they're putting a tube

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you know uh up through into your colon

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just to sort of like look at the colon

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lining and you know around the bow just

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to see

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uh well typically you know if they they

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see the the form the start of um

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potential sort of tumors whatever they

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call them polyps yeah

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um and during the colonoscopy normally

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they would um they'd remove those while

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they're while they're there you know so

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it's very

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um you basically uh have a laxative for

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a day or so before the

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um the process just to clean you out

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yeah clear you out and then you

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basically

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um you know they put you under for

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probably 45 minutes maybe an hour you

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know like tops um and you're sort of

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done and dusted and and so you know you

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wake up in the recovery room and

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the um you know the the doctor will

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normally you know

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just tell you then and there what you

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know what the state of play was and and

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so um yeah so when I got my one um

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yeah you know sort of the going into it

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the guy said I know you'll be fine you

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know nothing to worry about I wake up

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and he said oh look unfortunately we

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found a tumor

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um he sort of like talks about where it

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is in the colon and and you know shows

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you a few little of the images that they

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they take when they uh they're doing it

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so you know that was kind of a quite a

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big shock but yeah what's that moment

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like the room starts spinning what were

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you well you're still sedated a bit you

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know so you're probably drowsing you're

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not thinking that clearly but where it

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really I think became quite emotional or

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where it really sort of um it's sunk in

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was

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um

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the doctor then said look I think it'd

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be really good because you know normally

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if you've got bowel cancer if it's going

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to move to other parts of the body it's

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normally the liver and lungs you know

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that's with um bowel cancer and

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so they they wanted to do a CT scan

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which um so they put a contrast in

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um and then they they basically just

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check your organs just to see whether

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there's any other areas in your and

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you're sitting there thinking wow you

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know so I've got a tumor

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um more than likely it is a uh it is a

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you know a cancerous tumor and uh and

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then straight away it's like yeah where

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else in the body is it um or you know

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has it has it actually uh moved anywhere

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else and so the relief of wind I got the

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call from the uh the doctor saying look

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you know the CT scans have been uh been

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checked and looks like you know all your

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organs are clear so you know that was

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like a huge a huge relief huge relief

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you know still you know obviously got

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this tumor but it's um but at least it

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hasn't sort of it's been ring fenced

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yeah yeah and so that was kind of a

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the first time you know you really you

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know did feel quite emotional about it

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and

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um so what sort of period of time is

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this happening over so you get told you

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got tumors it's probably cancerous we've

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got to check these other organs within a

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week okay all in a week you know being

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told by the gastronomical doctor that um

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that it was probably just hemorrhoids so

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you know like you've gone from there to

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there so now now they're sitting there

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with this chamber um

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I think it was about a week later again

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the the doctor was just phenomenal and

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so he found this um surgeon up in uh

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Birmingham Alabama which is probably not

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a place too many people have been to but

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um so we're up there for Thanksgiving

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weekend

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um so my daughter who was boarding uh up

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in Massachusetts had a school there she

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was down for the Thanksgiving break so

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you know we break the news to them that

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we're going on a family holiday to

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Birmingham Alabama

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um

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you know at that stage we we just didn't

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we didn't have it in us to really tell

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the kids that are you know that that I

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had a cancer so you you and Mandy made

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the decision to keep it from them yeah

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we said that I was having a um having a

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like a small surgery right but just

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because you know the problem is you know

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everyone thinks of cancer as a you know

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it's a death sentence and it and it

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doesn't need to be you know like um

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obviously there's some some worse than

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others in that respect but um but you

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know fortunately with bowel cancer it is

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it is curable if it's if it's dealt with

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early enough so we needed more

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information before we you know really

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wanted to to go you know into the detail

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with them

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um so we went up there uh you're

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basically in hospital for four days

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while they you know they remove the um

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the chuma and you know let the colon

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repair enough and then now we're back

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down to Pensacola

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um

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so the surgeon was great you know he he

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basically did it with like robotic

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robotic surgery which is

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um you know allows even faster sort of

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repair time

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um and uh and so yeah we

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um so after the operation he basically

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said look we're going to uh sort of

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taken the tumor out all went really well

00:13:04

we've taken 24 lymph nodes around the

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site just to see whether there's any

00:13:10

um anything there just more out of

00:13:12

precaution than anything but yeah

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you won't you won't need anything

00:13:16

further until you sort of thing else is

00:13:18

God you know we've sort of done the hard

00:13:20

work now and you know get through the

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recovery and be be fine but

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unfortunately you the weight for

00:13:27

um the biopsy on the lymph nodes was

00:13:29

about a week so you know you're just

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sitting there just hanging in limbo

00:13:32

hanging yeah and it was really that was

00:13:35

quite tough and um what were you doing

00:13:37

that were you were you distant recovery

00:13:39

you know like you're still because you

00:13:41

know it's quite you know it's quite a

00:13:42

decent sort of surgery you know they you

00:13:44

know you're not really that mobile for a

00:13:46

few days

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um yeah you're slowly building back up

00:13:49

next and doing a bit of walking and

00:13:51

things but

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um so yeah we're out walking the dog and

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uh Mandy and I and then um you'll get

00:13:57

the phone call just say look uh

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unfortunately you know the six of the

00:14:00

lymph nodes have um got uh cancer uh

00:14:04

signs of cancer and so you're going to

00:14:06

need to

00:14:07

uh most likely to go and do do the chemo

00:14:09

so you know now you're in yeah you're

00:14:11

going to see the oncologist and um sort

00:14:14

of all of that that kind of thing from

00:14:16

there and so

00:14:17

you know Thanksgiving is end of November

00:14:21

um there was an opportunity to try and

00:14:22

start the chemo by sort of mid to late

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December

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um

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and with the uh with the the type of

00:14:29

chemo that I had they in the U.S

00:14:32

particularly they were really Keen to do

00:14:34

um to do via report so they they put

00:14:37

like a um like a little tap yeah so it

00:14:40

sort of just sits below the skin so they

00:14:41

they put it in there it's sort of like a

00:14:43

rubber membrane where they just sort of

00:14:45

then I um like an IV into into that

00:14:49

membrane and tape it in place and so

00:14:51

with the

00:14:52

I had um had to go and it was like 12

00:14:55

rounds of chemo

00:14:57

um every two weeks so you got going on a

00:14:59

Monday and you'd go in the infusion

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suite and they'd um

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uh you you sit there for like six or

00:15:06

seven hours just you know they put in

00:15:08

you know steroids and anti-nausea meds

00:15:10

and things and then they'd start the

00:15:11

chemo and then they'd give you a pump

00:15:14

which is like a man bag you'd take with

00:15:15

you and you'd have that with you for two

00:15:17

days and there was just like a slow

00:15:19

release of chemo

00:15:21

go back and on the Wednesday they'd take

00:15:22

it out then you had 10 days to sort of

00:15:24

um recover before the next um you know

00:15:27

the next round and

00:15:29

yeah so that was uh yeah how did you

00:15:31

find the chemo experience I've had

00:15:33

um uh die Henwood on the podcast who's

00:15:35

um yeah you know he's got stage four

00:15:37

cancer at the moment and he talked about

00:15:39

um just how misleading the perception

00:15:41

with chemo can be because people see

00:15:42

movies and they see someone that's bald

00:15:45

and throwing up and he said the reality

00:15:47

fan was quite different like uh he was

00:15:49

doing seven days in some other shows

00:15:50

like that with um a chemo bag hanging

00:15:52

off them how was your experience

00:15:54

um it was an interesting one it's I

00:15:56

found it very sort of a cumulative

00:15:58

effect

00:16:00

um the first one or two were um

00:16:03

were remarkably sort of uh okay

00:16:06

um

00:16:08

you know the I think every chemo every

00:16:11

treatment you know is is different the

00:16:12

cocktail and things and so you know some

00:16:15

people you know like fly through it

00:16:16

other people definitely uh battle and

00:16:19

um my experience with it was um

00:16:22

you know it was a challenge mentally I

00:16:24

think mentally more than anything it was

00:16:25

it was very challenging because you just

00:16:27

constantly feeling

00:16:29

um you know feeling shut you know you

00:16:32

the chemo would sort of kick in

00:16:34

um by you know so the the pump would be

00:16:37

out by the Wednesday normally the

00:16:38

Wednesday Thursday would just you know

00:16:40

the worst days and

00:16:43

um I was trying to carry on with the uh

00:16:45

the training with the team so uh go and

00:16:47

do the sailing and things I'd sort of

00:16:49

there was always that goal to be back

00:16:50

sailing with them by the Saturday or the

00:16:51

Sunday

00:16:52

um and to to have that sort of

00:16:55

I guess so motivation was really good

00:16:57

because it sort of a took your focus off

00:16:59

you know what was going on you know

00:17:01

because it'd be very easy just to sit

00:17:02

there feeling sorry for yourself I think

00:17:04

definitely been able to get out there

00:17:06

and sort of uh really sort of just keep

00:17:08

pushing on with different things was a

00:17:10

was a really

00:17:11

um motivating thing really motivating

00:17:13

yeah because you know you're there

00:17:15

you're doing the chemo you know you know

00:17:18

you're doing it to try and kill anything

00:17:20

that's left in your body so to be able

00:17:21

to fight it and actually be motivated to

00:17:23

to do that as opposed to sort of sitting

00:17:25

there thinking about dying it's like you

00:17:27

know it's quite a different

00:17:30

um Prospect because you know you've

00:17:31

really got you know chemo in different

00:17:33

ways it might be they're just purely to

00:17:35

extend someone's life or or might you

00:17:38

know case and you know everyone else

00:17:39

that in that same position where they've

00:17:41

got the ability to sort of keep fighting

00:17:43

at the end you know you're um you're

00:17:45

probably going with quite a different

00:17:47

attitude to it were there moments where

00:17:49

you were thinking that this is it this

00:17:51

is a matter of life and death

00:17:54

um not really because you know like I

00:17:56

think

00:17:57

because the doctors have been very

00:17:59

upbeat about it all and had been you

00:18:01

know

00:18:02

you know very clear that it was uh this

00:18:06

was a

00:18:07

um

00:18:08

you know preventative more than anything

00:18:10

you know the the main cancer had been

00:18:13

removed with the tumor yes it was in the

00:18:15

lymph the chemo should be able to kill

00:18:19

anything that was was left in the body

00:18:21

and and so you

00:18:23

I think the attitude for me was much

00:18:25

more of look you know you've got the

00:18:26

opportunity to fight it enough you know

00:18:28

while you've got that chance you you

00:18:29

really want to and yeah

00:18:31

but yeah God it changes your uh your

00:18:34

perspective very very quickly on on life

00:18:36

because you know

00:18:37

before then you sort of think your you

00:18:38

know you're bulletproof and you know

00:18:41

um you're fat healthy you know like you

00:18:43

touched on before the Google Doctor type

00:18:45

thing you um and you start looking at

00:18:49

um who's likely to get bowel cancer it's

00:18:51

you know it's normally elderly

00:18:53

overweight

00:18:55

um smoking drinking you know like all

00:18:57

the boxes that you just don't take

00:19:00

um

00:19:00

and so then you you start questioning

00:19:03

why you know why

00:19:04

why me you know why what have what have

00:19:07

you done wrong in in life to to sort of

00:19:10

to have that you know um

00:19:13

and I really think a big part of it you

00:19:14

know it's the only thing I can think of

00:19:16

is it can only be stress you know like

00:19:18

there's just

00:19:19

it

00:19:20

you just can't you know you can't

00:19:22

rationalize it with any other thing you

00:19:24

know so that was kind of where I got to

00:19:26

my head yeah

00:19:28

um she's with lots of Tears over that

00:19:30

time

00:19:35

you're real private so you may not even

00:19:37

want to go there but I'm like I'm I'm

00:19:39

just imagining

00:19:41

myself if I was in your shoes and like

00:19:43

going home from the doctor and you know

00:19:44

telling my partner the bad news like I

00:19:46

just crumble like a like a [ __ ] mess

00:19:49

yeah

00:19:51

um there's death there was definitely

00:19:52

times you know where it was very

00:19:54

emotional

00:19:55

um

00:19:56

I think you know one one of the worst

00:19:59

was or probably the type that was almost

00:20:01

the relief was when I got the result of

00:20:03

that first CT scan um because

00:20:06

you're just dealing with all of this

00:20:08

information and not really sure

00:20:11

um

00:20:12

where it probably was going to uh going

00:20:15

to end up so that was probably the first

00:20:18

time

00:20:19

um certainly well it was quite emotional

00:20:22

finding out that you know you would that

00:20:24

you hadn't sort of finished the journey

00:20:25

again I was going to have to go through

00:20:26

the chemo so that was another time

00:20:29

the the last time I went back in uh to

00:20:33

get the the pump removed after I

00:20:36

finished the six months of chemo that

00:20:38

was

00:20:39

you know that was you get to ring ring

00:20:41

this Bell

00:20:42

um in in the infusion you know suite and

00:20:45

you know like I don't know it's just it

00:20:48

was

00:20:49

just sort of like you know thank God

00:20:51

that's over you know like it was just

00:20:52

one of those things where

00:20:55

you know you do it you you want to fight

00:20:57

it you know but we're it's wearing you

00:20:59

down and just in the end you know like

00:21:00

to to get through it it's just you know

00:21:02

it was a huge um yeah it was a huge

00:21:04

relief so you know but it's just there's

00:21:06

different you know it's just different

00:21:07

times where you you do feel quite

00:21:08

emotionally uh drained you know with it

00:21:10

all yeah thanks for sharing that really

00:21:12

appreciate it was was Mandy Furious when

00:21:15

when when she realized you'd had blood

00:21:17

in your store for all this time and you

00:21:18

hadn't told it

00:21:19

was she mad well I hadn't you know

00:21:22

because I was still probably almost a

00:21:23

little bit ashamed or embarrassed you

00:21:24

know not for whatever reason I

00:21:26

um I hadn't even told her when I'd been

00:21:29

to the gastronomical doctor you know to

00:21:30

go and see see him originally and and

00:21:33

then you know because he he wasn't

00:21:34

concerned I hadn't actually said

00:21:36

anything and it wasn't until the the

00:21:37

doctor said look I'm going to push the

00:21:40

um the colonoscopy boards

00:21:43

um she was she was just flying back up

00:21:45

to um Newport because we were had to

00:21:48

relocate all our furniture and stuff out

00:21:50

of our house and um so she was actually

00:21:53

back up there so she wasn't even around

00:21:55

when um

00:21:57

uh when I did the colonoscopy and so

00:22:00

coming out of there you know it was a

00:22:02

huge I guess shock and it'll be a

00:22:04

reality check for for both of us so um

00:22:08

yeah but yeah she was she wasn't happy

00:22:10

because I've told her too much about her

00:22:12

but it was um I feel it was just what

00:22:14

what you that's it this is what I expect

00:22:16

Dean but like all I know about you is

00:22:18

what we see on TV on usually in boat

00:22:20

races and you seem like a just a like a

00:22:22

strong stoic guy and to hear that you're

00:22:24

like that at home as well

00:22:26

um I feel like it's gonna but you're

00:22:27

still young and there's still so much

00:22:29

Life to Live do you feel like it's gonna

00:22:30

Gonna Change you as a person moving

00:22:32

forward like you will be more open and

00:22:33

more vulnerable and

00:22:35

um yeah I think uh well there's a number

00:22:38

of things that you know that have

00:22:39

changed probably you know like you

00:22:41

definitely have a very difficult

00:22:42

different outlook on life you you know

00:22:45

that you need you know you you want to

00:22:47

enjoy life while you can you know

00:22:48

because you just don't know what's

00:22:49

around the corner and I think it's

00:22:50

probably that's been probably the

00:22:52

biggest uh reality check is that you

00:22:55

know we've got um we've got four kids

00:22:57

you know and they're all different

00:22:58

stages of you know what they're doing

00:22:59

and you want to be around for them and

00:23:02

um

00:23:03

yeah there's just so many different

00:23:04

things where it just sort of makes you

00:23:06

take a step back and you know make makes

00:23:09

you probably rethink

00:23:11

um you know life in general and it's you

00:23:13

know I know it's yeah it all sounds a

00:23:16

bit silly but at the same time you know

00:23:18

because you you get a bit of a

00:23:20

a wake-up call

00:23:22

um you definitely start approaching

00:23:24

things very differently on what you do

00:23:25

every day

00:23:27

yeah yeah I can I can imagine so um so

00:23:30

you're sitting here now it's um

00:23:32

belkinson New Zealand month June 2023

00:23:35

how are you feeling now you're all clear

00:23:36

physically you're 100

00:23:39

yeah well I have um

00:23:41

I've got a I have a six monthly checkup

00:23:44

so with a surgeon

00:23:46

um so I go and see him you know after uh

00:23:49

so end of 21 I had to get a like it was

00:23:53

a

00:23:55

um hit a small chamber on my lung which

00:23:57

had to get removed and that was you know

00:23:59

fortunately you know not that was it was

00:24:01

a good thing but fortunately it was the

00:24:02

same cancer as from the bowel so that it

00:24:04

had actually

00:24:06

had moved around the body so even though

00:24:08

the chemo had probably tried to to get

00:24:11

it it hadn't so but

00:24:14

um but you know in terms of the scans

00:24:15

and things every you know since they've

00:24:17

all been clear

00:24:19

um you know my my scans you know I do

00:24:21

them yearly so yearly colonoscopy yearly

00:24:23

CT

00:24:25

um they typically full Joe around sort

00:24:27

of September October around that time of

00:24:29

year so it's always quite a

00:24:31

a teen's time because you just even

00:24:33

though you feel good and you feel like

00:24:35

you're doing everything as you should

00:24:36

you never really know but

00:24:39

the good thing is early diagnosis you

00:24:42

know still gives you another you know

00:24:43

another opportunity to fight it but

00:24:46

but yeah I feel I feel really um really

00:24:48

good uh

00:24:51

you probably don't train quite as hard

00:24:53

as I used to but um and and that's

00:24:56

probably more just not being involved in

00:24:58

the the teams in the same time racing

00:25:00

yeah yeah you know which was would you

00:25:02

know just really drove that discipline

00:25:04

so having a motivation like can move

00:25:07

your butt month is um is actually quite

00:25:08

a good thing you know just to you know

00:25:10

encourage us you know uh encourages me

00:25:13

to sort of um get more active again

00:25:15

because it is easy to sort of to not

00:25:18

um so yeah

00:25:20

um well this is probably like a good a

00:25:22

good time to you know compartmentalize

00:25:24

this and move on to some other stuff but

00:25:25

yeah what's the key messaging I know um

00:25:27

there's some shocking stats like three

00:25:29

people die every day in New Zealand from

00:25:30

bowel cancer

00:25:31

um but what do we need to be looking out

00:25:33

for for early detection well you know

00:25:35

this the the main symptoms you know I

00:25:37

think um you know change in bowel habits

00:25:39

is a you know is quite a big one you

00:25:40

know obviously blood in the stool

00:25:42

they'll have it sometimes like frequency

00:25:44

or yeah yeah like um you know like if

00:25:46

you if you really notice a big change

00:25:48

and you know just I guess what you know

00:25:50

your normal sort of um bowel habits you

00:25:52

know like it's just you know it's

00:25:54

normally it's just again it's just your

00:25:55

body trying to tell you something and um

00:25:58

you know my experience was obviously the

00:26:00

blood

00:26:01

um and so

00:26:02

um you know you you hear people that

00:26:05

ignore it like like I did um and you

00:26:07

know obviously that's not a not a great

00:26:09

thing so again you know it's the you

00:26:11

know making sure that if if you if you

00:26:14

do have you know that sort of thing

00:26:15

going on then you you do go and get it

00:26:17

checked out um yeah there's there's

00:26:20

other symptoms you know where

00:26:22

um you know discomfort in the abdomen

00:26:24

you know there's just other other areas

00:26:26

and things but

00:26:29

I think that that's that's probably the

00:26:31

key message of anything is like if you

00:26:33

if you don't feel

00:26:35

right for whatever reason then you know

00:26:36

and if it's persisting you know you

00:26:38

definitely want to go and get checked

00:26:39

because it

00:26:40

yeah the body is you know it's probably

00:26:42

your uh your best um

00:26:44

you know best gauge of uh what's going

00:26:46

on oh 100 and well thanks for being so

00:26:48

open and honest about that stuff like

00:26:49

you yeah I mean there's a there's a

00:26:52

Cheesy saying that people say that if it

00:26:53

helps one person then it's been

00:26:55

worthwhile but I think what you were

00:26:56

doing by being involved with this

00:26:58

campaign especially knowing how private

00:26:59

you are

00:27:01

um I think it could save a lot of lives

00:27:04

um well you know the motivation was as

00:27:06

you say you know like to to try and you

00:27:08

know like

00:27:09

um help raise awareness around Bell

00:27:11

cancer because it's

00:27:13

you know again I I you know the the one

00:27:15

thing for me which was really you know

00:27:17

it's probably the key message that I got

00:27:18

out of it is as Bell cancer is curable

00:27:21

um it is treatable if you get onto it

00:27:23

early and

00:27:25

um so you know like

00:27:28

it's not a it's not you know there's no

00:27:30

no none of these diseases are a pleasant

00:27:33

bowel cancer certainly not a sexy

00:27:35

Disease by any means um you know and but

00:27:39

um yeah it's like not being afraid to

00:27:42

sort of put your hand up and ask for

00:27:44

help because it's um you know I think

00:27:45

being able to talk to your partner or

00:27:47

whatever like you know it wasn't

00:27:48

something that I I did a good job of but

00:27:50

I think just to be able to I guess

00:27:52

yeah

00:27:53

talk about it and um and then you know

00:27:55

hopefully that leads to a good outcome

00:27:57

yeah 100 well I'm glad you're I'm glad

00:27:59

you're okay now yeah nothing it's really

00:28:01

cool

00:28:02

um you're the same age as me you 1050

00:28:05

recently right yeah yeah yeah yeah so I

00:28:08

was thinking about you over over the

00:28:09

weekend so um your dad is Ray Barker who

00:28:12

started like Barker's men's clothing

00:28:13

when I'm trying to remember when that

00:28:16

came about was it during your teenage

00:28:17

years when does barcus begin

00:28:20

um so uh dad started barkers uh back in

00:28:23

1972. oh [ __ ] yeah so like the year

00:28:26

before you were born yeah yeah yeah so

00:28:28

um so

00:28:30

um he'd always had a

00:28:32

um

00:28:33

you know like a real sort of

00:28:35

I don't know focus on on men's fashion

00:28:37

even back in those days and you know

00:28:39

they they had a you know fantastic sort

00:28:41

of um

00:28:43

you know introduction he and another guy

00:28:46

Jeff parsonsson you know they sort of

00:28:47

teamed up in the early days and they uh

00:28:49

basically built it up from nothing I

00:28:51

think it started off as Raymond's uh or

00:28:53

collars and cuffs and Raymond's

00:28:55

um

00:28:56

and then yeah then became barkers male

00:28:59

Boutique and then

00:29:00

and then but came back as so it's um

00:29:05

yeah it was quite it was really

00:29:07

interesting you know just to see it all

00:29:09

grow and you know uh

00:29:11

over the years you know like I never

00:29:13

really had a strong

00:29:15

um affiliation with with fashion it

00:29:16

wasn't really a a big big sort of focus

00:29:20

you know like I was obviously really you

00:29:23

know really proud of what he uh what he

00:29:24

did with it all but you know I probably

00:29:27

didn't have that same sort of uh DNA you

00:29:29

know like in terms of uh really

00:29:30

following the fashion brand and um

00:29:33

but yeah it's sort of grow and grow and

00:29:35

you know I think when it was probably in

00:29:38

my my opinion it's absolute sort of best

00:29:40

was you know like back in the days where

00:29:41

you know every uni student was wearing a

00:29:43

pair of darkest trackies oh I was going

00:29:45

to bring that up so this is when again

00:29:46

we're the same age so when you were

00:29:48

maybe 16 17 18 19 I I was going to ask

00:29:51

if this was like a regional thing

00:29:52

because I was in Palmerston North you

00:29:53

know Messi university everybody was

00:29:56

wearing like gray back as track pants

00:29:59

they were like the must-have must-have

00:30:01

item in every person's wardrobe oh yeah

00:30:03

they're awesome you know like

00:30:04

um you know completely impractical these

00:30:06

days but uh you know like um but yeah

00:30:09

you know my wardrobe I had the short

00:30:11

version of it you just you know it was

00:30:14

that was great but um

00:30:17

um yeah but it was one of those things

00:30:19

where it just it was at one point in

00:30:21

time it was just such a uh yeah a trendy

00:30:23

thing you know to for all all the

00:30:25

students around New Zealand so no it was

00:30:27

really cool oh they were amazing so

00:30:28

where did the sailing start sailing

00:30:30

seems like the most impractical sport to

00:30:32

do like it's not running you put shoes

00:30:34

on you're out the door

00:30:36

um soccer Cricket rugby you go to

00:30:38

practice at school yachting seems like a

00:30:40

lot of admin is it a yachting family

00:30:42

my dad did a little bit of sailing when

00:30:44

he was young he was sort of more Cricket

00:30:45

rugby

00:30:47

um at school and through the clubs and

00:30:49

things and he did a little bit of

00:30:51

sailing

00:30:52

um but it certainly wasn't his main main

00:30:54

sport

00:30:55

when I was 10 you know uh was really

00:30:58

given the choice you know parents wanted

00:31:00

me to do something so it was either

00:31:01

Sunday school or uh or or something like

00:31:04

church so yeah so it was um so it was

00:31:06

best to uh go go down to the local Yacht

00:31:08

Club

00:31:10

so yeah we went down there and you know

00:31:12

like he at first I didn't really love it

00:31:15

um

00:31:15

but you know very quickly it sort of

00:31:18

said to grow and what do you mean you

00:31:20

didn't love it I had a couple of bad

00:31:22

experiences you know you sort of because

00:31:23

it's very it's a weird sensation when

00:31:26

you first get into it um you feel like

00:31:29

incredibly isolated you're in a little

00:31:31

boat on your own yeah obviously there's

00:31:34

other there's other boats around and you

00:31:35

know support you know coach boats and

00:31:37

things but but you're um yeah you're

00:31:39

sort of out there and

00:31:41

you know it's quite a it's quite a weird

00:31:43

sensation you know that you're sort of

00:31:44

responsible for this little boat and

00:31:46

trying to figure out what the hell's

00:31:47

going on with the wind and you know

00:31:48

getting wet in the head with a boom and

00:31:50

you know it's just um

00:31:52

um and for some people just you know

00:31:54

like a natural fear of feral water like

00:31:56

some people just don't feel comfortable

00:31:58

being away from the shore or you know

00:32:00

being in deep water and so uh yeah

00:32:04

um but I had a couple of bad experiences

00:32:05

it's got stuck you know I got stuck in

00:32:06

the middle of a late poo Pocky at one

00:32:07

stage you know where it was just

00:32:09

couldn't couldn't turn the boat around

00:32:10

and get back to Shore and start

00:32:12

panicking now what could go wrong there

00:32:14

but it's um

00:32:16

uh but yeah over time you know and just

00:32:20

sort of a little bit of um perseverance

00:32:21

and things you know just sort of got a

00:32:24

um

00:32:24

got the confidence back and really just

00:32:27

sort of um built from there on and

00:32:28

started off just sort of been you know

00:32:30

fun going hanging out down at Murray's

00:32:32

Bay with uh with all of the you know the

00:32:34

other kids and things build out these

00:32:36

friendships

00:32:37

um you know once you've sort of mastered

00:32:39

all this sort of the the learn to sell

00:32:41

type

00:32:42

training then you you were able to go

00:32:44

and start doing a bit of racing and even

00:32:47

though you know to begin with it wasn't

00:32:49

sort of incredibly successful it was

00:32:51

still great to participate and be part

00:32:53

of it and um yeah sort of quickly grown

00:32:55

to something that I was getting more and

00:32:56

more passionate about so not not much

00:32:59

natural Talent just a lot of hard work

00:33:00

it was yeah I'd say a lot of hard work

00:33:02

yeah it was um and I was quite Young

00:33:07

versus the generation of the kids that I

00:33:09

came through with

00:33:11

um so I was sort of always on the the

00:33:12

younger end of it so always you know for

00:33:16

a long time just sort of always trying

00:33:18

to catch up to the the level of these um

00:33:20

the kids who are sort of probably one

00:33:22

two three years older than I was and uh

00:33:25

but I think in the end that was a huge

00:33:27

benefit because you were sort of always

00:33:29

trying to put yourself against these

00:33:31

kids so you know that I you know when

00:33:33

you're sort of going particularly

00:33:34

through that sort of 12 to 16 17 years

00:33:37

of age sort of um period two or three

00:33:40

years of uh of age is a huge amount of

00:33:42

maturity and and so

00:33:45

um it was it was great to be able to

00:33:47

you know sort of always be challenged to

00:33:49

to be at the same level as as these

00:33:51

other competitors that I've signed in

00:33:52

against and you know they end up being

00:33:54

great friends but also you know really

00:33:56

strong competitors and so you know as a

00:33:59

club Murray's based Sailing Club was it

00:34:01

was incredibly strong and

00:34:03

uh it was generation after generation of

00:34:05

really good Sailors that sort of came

00:34:07

through you know the you know Ray Davies

00:34:09

was sort of uh there was a year year

00:34:11

ahead of me another guy Hamish pepper

00:34:13

there's another guy Jeff senior you know

00:34:15

either being part of Team New Zealand or

00:34:18

you know heavily involved in other

00:34:19

sailing

00:34:21

um around the place and you know we were

00:34:23

very fortunate to have you know guys

00:34:24

like Russell uh coats come and do some

00:34:26

coaching at the club and you know a lot

00:34:28

of other

00:34:29

really strong

00:34:30

um

00:34:31

people as well so you know we were

00:34:33

immersed with you know like when you

00:34:34

look back now with you know some

00:34:35

fantastic Talent there but also you know

00:34:38

some very strong uh coaching support

00:34:40

yeah so when when did you first meet

00:34:41

Russell coats because he he sort of

00:34:44

shoulder tapped you and and got you into

00:34:45

Team New Zealand when you're in the

00:34:46

early 20s right yeah but did he first

00:34:49

see you as like a teen or

00:34:51

um yeah so oh and the young you know so

00:34:54

young guys probably when I was 12 13 he

00:34:55

was he came to Murray's Bay a couple of

00:34:57

times coaching right so could he see

00:34:58

something in you then or no no were you

00:35:00

just like another probably just another

00:35:01

kid but but it was what was interesting

00:35:03

though so Dad um so through barkers they

00:35:06

they sponsored Russell and his 84 um

00:35:08

Olympic campaign when he when he won his

00:35:10

gold medal in in LA and he came around

00:35:14

after he got back you know he had the

00:35:16

middle you know came around home and it

00:35:17

was it was pretty cool you know and you

00:35:19

sort of

00:35:20

um

00:35:21

yeah he was sort of like an idol at that

00:35:23

stage he was young and you know

00:35:24

obviously incredibly motivated and

00:35:26

obviously very talented

00:35:28

um

00:35:29

yeah and so then you know he was doing

00:35:31

some coaching at um down at Murray's Bay

00:35:33

from time to time and

00:35:35

uh yeah I still remember you know he was

00:35:38

just like just you know forcing us out

00:35:40

there in strong wins and you know

00:35:41

everything else and everyone out looking

00:35:43

around going geez you sure about this

00:35:45

but you know you could just sort of see

00:35:46

just that that attitude towards it was

00:35:48

really uh probably

00:35:50

you know just that focus on being you

00:35:52

know being successful yeah so so how did

00:35:54

that go about that he got you into when

00:35:56

did when did you first like join Team

00:35:57

New Zealand so myself and Hamish pepper

00:36:01

so we were both you know competing

00:36:02

against each other and lasers and things

00:36:03

so in 90

00:36:05

3 we both got asked to join and do a bit

00:36:08

of uh sailing with the team uh here in

00:36:12

New Zealand so they had two boats so

00:36:13

they were basically they were

00:36:16

you know with Peter Blake I'd form this

00:36:19

new uh outfit

00:36:21

um Team New Zealand so I was sort of it

00:36:23

morphed on from the 92 campaign

00:36:26

um

00:36:26

and

00:36:28

yeah so we did some sailing uh really

00:36:32

enjoyed you know all the racing and

00:36:33

things we're doing on the boats

00:36:35

um got asked to go and sail on the B

00:36:37

boat and be involved um in San Diego but

00:36:40

I was at that stage I was still uh you

00:36:43

know content with sticking with my own

00:36:45

sailing you know doing the different

00:36:47

Olympics sort of type boats and things

00:36:49

and uh yes I didn't end up going going

00:36:53

to San Diego but you know it was

00:36:55

obviously fantastic to see you know Team

00:36:57

New Zealand go up there and

00:36:58

and be successful win the win the cup

00:37:00

for the first time bring it back to New

00:37:02

Zealand and then um

00:37:04

got involved with the team again in 96

00:37:07

yeah when they uh when they came back

00:37:11

um

00:37:12

yeah so it's a 96 and then um

00:37:16

so 96 was that here in New Zealand yeah

00:37:19

so the so when I got involved yeah in 96

00:37:21

was it was leading up to the 2000

00:37:23

campaign so yeah so the team was sort of

00:37:26

Base was base back here sort of slowly

00:37:28

ramp the operation back up and then you

00:37:31

know I think by 96 97 I think you know

00:37:34

the team was fully operational uh back

00:37:36

here in New Zealand so so that's is that

00:37:39

the time where uh um Russell cut some

00:37:41

bread Butterworth they uh they left New

00:37:43

Zealand went to a lingy yeah so that was

00:37:46

so that was after the 2000 right okay so

00:37:49

immediately after the cup you know

00:37:51

um yeah well well you know we're all

00:37:54

probably still partying that they

00:37:56

obviously at that stage had you know had

00:37:57

formed an alliance with

00:37:59

um

00:38:00

Ernesto uh better rally who you know

00:38:02

he's obviously synonymous with with the

00:38:04

cut through alangi and

00:38:06

you know through this

00:38:08

um you know obviously winning the cup in

00:38:10

2003 defending it in 07 and then um yeah

00:38:13

now now they're back in the cup again

00:38:16

what 20 years on that was um there was a

00:38:20

disgraceful time I what are your

00:38:22

Recollections of that time obviously it

00:38:24

was good for you because it meant you

00:38:25

got bumped up to be Captain but as a

00:38:27

friend of like Russell Coates and I'm

00:38:29

guessing bread butter with they um you

00:38:31

look back now on the way they were they

00:38:33

were treated it was absolutely

00:38:35

disgraceful right I was yeah no it was

00:38:37

um yeah I think the hard thing was is

00:38:41

that you know I think when Team New

00:38:43

Zealand finished the the Cup in 2000 it

00:38:45

was like a you know it was very hard to

00:38:48

see how another team was ever going to

00:38:50

be able to to topple the the group that

00:38:53

was assembled there was so much

00:38:54

experience there was so much skill

00:38:58

um you know it

00:38:59

and you know personally for me it was

00:39:02

like you know hard to imagine how anyone

00:39:04

would ever want to leave

00:39:07

and so when it all started you know to

00:39:09

unravel and all these billionaires

00:39:10

suddenly got them you know they're all

00:39:12

down here they watched the cup they're

00:39:13

on their super yachts and probably all

00:39:15

thought well this is you know something

00:39:16

we should get into this yes this is

00:39:18

probably you know it's pretty cheap and

00:39:20

easy so let's uh let's yeah let's get

00:39:22

amongst it so how much do we have to pay

00:39:23

them on it's nothing yeah exactly and so

00:39:25

you know you know we obviously was

00:39:27

formed there was one World there was um

00:39:31

it's like three or four you know they

00:39:33

sort of billionaire back teams and um

00:39:36

Oracle it was when they they came in

00:39:38

with Larry Ellison

00:39:40

um

00:39:41

and yeah so the quickest way for them to

00:39:43

get up to speed was to to basically buy

00:39:45

the talent and the experience and um

00:39:47

which is I guess normal in any other

00:39:48

sport in the world it's just you know

00:39:50

for sailing and for America's Cup and I

00:39:52

guess passionate kiwis it was hard to

00:39:54

probably rationalize so

00:39:56

um

00:39:57

yeah personally I was really

00:39:59

disappointed just to see the the team

00:40:01

fall apart yes it was a great

00:40:03

opportunity and you know we you know

00:40:05

just sat there thinking well you know

00:40:06

this is going to be um it's going to be

00:40:08

a big job but you know it was incredibly

00:40:10

exciting but you know we were a young

00:40:12

and very inexperienced group that was

00:40:14

left behind you know trying to basically

00:40:16

rebuild carry on so that I guess you

00:40:19

know what the the team had achieved over

00:40:20

the past sort of um five or so years it

00:40:23

was uh yeah it was

00:40:25

it's quite daunting

00:40:26

um so so at the time when you're in Team

00:40:29

New Zealand are you sort of thinking as

00:40:31

well those bastards leaving for them the

00:40:33

big money I couldn't understand you know

00:40:35

look because I was young and just you

00:40:37

know probably didn't really see you know

00:40:39

the bigger picture you know at the time

00:40:40

I was you know I was obviously really

00:40:42

disappointed because it you know working

00:40:44

alongside Russell and Brad that was that

00:40:46

was a fantastic experience all the other

00:40:48

guys that that were in that sort of

00:40:50

group you know that um that bought all

00:40:52

of this you know amazing sort of uh

00:40:54

a pool of talent you know together it

00:40:56

was it was really like it was such an

00:40:58

incredible experience and so to see it

00:41:00

dismantle and and you know disperse to

00:41:03

all these different teams it was it was

00:41:05

really hard to kind of rationalize but

00:41:07

you know coming back to what you said

00:41:08

earlier no it was disgraceful you know

00:41:09

the way they were treated you know they

00:41:12

maybe they didn't you know probably

00:41:14

leave on the best of terms you know and

00:41:17

the way it was done but you know in the

00:41:18

end it's sort of everyone does what they

00:41:21

need to do right and it's um you've got

00:41:22

to look after your family and look after

00:41:23

yourself yeah and so you know it's it's

00:41:26

easy to see it all now and you know I

00:41:28

think it's it's obviously fantastic that

00:41:30

Russell was you know recognized for you

00:41:33

know the service that he did provide you

00:41:34

know to New Zealand when you know by

00:41:36

bringing the cup back and everything

00:41:37

else yeah the time softens a lot of

00:41:39

opinions doesn't it um but to think that

00:41:41

this was like pre-social media as well

00:41:43

but I I just remember the weight of the

00:41:45

backlash at the time it was well you

00:41:47

know

00:41:48

um

00:41:59

um so so then you become you become

00:42:01

captain

00:42:03

so how do you so you're like just late

00:42:05

20s at the time yeah so and so 2000 uh I

00:42:10

was 27

00:42:12

um going on 27 and yeah so the next

00:42:15

couple is 30 you know when um

00:42:17

and no three so that was where we lost

00:42:21

to a lingi 5-0 is um

00:42:24

you're just going back so we're talking

00:42:25

about Russell coats and Brad Butterworth

00:42:27

it feels like

00:42:28

um then with the boats the way they were

00:42:30

maybe it was more about the Sailor than

00:42:32

the boat would they be I don't know

00:42:33

anything about yachting but would that

00:42:34

be a fair thing to say whereas now it

00:42:36

feels like if you've got the fastest

00:42:37

boat you're probably gonna win I

00:42:40

yeah there's no question that they

00:42:41

they're a very strong team yeah we we

00:42:43

raced against

00:42:44

um uh Russell and Brad and Ernesto you

00:42:47

know two or three times on the match

00:42:49

racing circuit leading into uh the

00:42:52

Auckland uh defense in 2003 and you know

00:42:55

I think until they're again as we you

00:42:57

know we beat them and you know it was we

00:42:59

definitely felt like we're on a on a you

00:43:01

know pretty um pretty good sort of uh

00:43:04

position relative to them in terms of

00:43:05

the sailing yeah the America's Cup is a

00:43:07

is a a typical I think almost Bar None

00:43:11

has always ended up being won by the

00:43:12

fastest boat

00:43:14

um

00:43:14

yeah while the boats were very close in

00:43:17

performance you know they they did still

00:43:19

have a small speed Advantage um in 2007

00:43:23

2003 you know they they definitely had a

00:43:26

better boat you know they were faster

00:43:28

they had sort of uh stumbled onto some

00:43:32

you know like a bit of a design

00:43:35

um gain with the whole design which you

00:43:38

know we were still very much in the uh

00:43:39

the same family of boats that that had

00:43:42

one in 92 95 and you know and 2000

00:43:45

whereas 2003 they'd sort of taken quite

00:43:48

a different approach and actually found

00:43:50

a a design which you know gave them you

00:43:53

know a pretty um pretty decent Advantage

00:43:55

across you know a lot of the conditions

00:43:57

how do you handle that so you're you're

00:43:59

30 years old

00:44:01

um you're the captain of Team New

00:44:02

Zealand you got the weight of weight and

00:44:04

expectation of the country on your

00:44:05

shoulder you're taking on these two guys

00:44:07

who've been basically painted as as say

00:44:10

I have villains or enemies and you lose

00:44:13

5-0 like how like how do you get through

00:44:16

that oh it's devastating yeah like it

00:44:18

was you know you

00:44:19

as you say you know you've got the

00:44:20

weight of the nation you know you don't

00:44:22

feel it at the time because you know

00:44:23

you're just going out there doing your

00:44:25

what you think is the best possible job

00:44:27

you can you know and you're a team of

00:44:29

over 100 people you know so there's

00:44:30

everyone's sort of contributing in

00:44:32

different ways

00:44:33

yeah the thing which was was difficult

00:44:35

was that the boat sort of you know

00:44:37

falling apart around us you know during

00:44:38

the series you know broken mass and the

00:44:40

first race when the you know filled up

00:44:42

with water and you know it's just like

00:44:44

a whole lot of things which just weren't

00:44:46

yeah just weren't good enough but at the

00:44:48

same time you know we didn't we didn't

00:44:50

probably sail at our base you know we

00:44:52

there was one race we should have won

00:44:53

which we didn't you know there was just

00:44:54

there was just a whole lot of things

00:44:56

that sort of um yeah that happened and

00:44:59

it was just

00:45:00

if you're going to lose you want to lose

00:45:02

you know I guess in a dignified way you

00:45:05

don't want to you want like a close race

00:45:06

sort of thing yeah and um you know to to

00:45:09

lose like we did it just wasn't a fair

00:45:11

reflection of I guess the quality of the

00:45:14

people within the team now

00:45:17

unfortunately in the America's Cup only

00:45:19

one team has ever perceived as being

00:45:21

good and the rest are sure you know

00:45:23

because they don't win but the reality

00:45:25

is some teams you know like

00:45:27

Kenny it should be really good teams but

00:45:29

just just don't quite get it right you

00:45:31

know there might be one or two

00:45:32

ingredients that just don't sort of um

00:45:34

play through and and so

00:45:36

you know are you a failure well no you

00:45:39

know there's a lot of good that comes

00:45:40

out of some of these campaigns but only

00:45:42

one team can get it right you look at

00:45:44

Formula One or some of these other you

00:45:46

know things where

00:45:47

you know Mercedes for dominant for

00:45:49

however many years and now you know Red

00:45:51

Bull and no one can touch them and

00:45:52

that's just purely because they've just

00:45:54

done a few things better than others you

00:45:55

know it's not like the teams are

00:45:56

suddenly yeah you know no good it's just

00:45:59

that one team's just sort of managed to

00:46:00

to focus their energies in the right

00:46:02

area yeah I mean I'm sure you can look

00:46:04

back now as a as a 50 year old man that

00:46:06

has survived [ __ ] cancer and take

00:46:08

this for what it is which is just like a

00:46:10

you know like a blip in the rear view

00:46:12

mirror but at the time it must have been

00:46:13

all concerning like how like how do you

00:46:15

get how do you get through that like

00:46:16

yeah where does that sort of resilience

00:46:18

come from to get through something as

00:46:19

disappointing as that

00:46:21

um

00:46:22

it was hard like I think the one thing

00:46:24

that you never prepare yourself for is

00:46:26

the um the

00:46:28

the focus and attention and how brutal

00:46:31

um

00:46:32

I guess a lot of the

00:46:34

the backlash the media the public

00:46:36

opinion

00:46:37

um on what you do is you know and

00:46:40

because

00:46:41

um yeah you don't go out of your way

00:46:42

sort of to you know to I guess drag

00:46:46

everyone down the hole with it but it

00:46:48

yeah you end up

00:46:50

I think in a position where

00:46:52

you try not to to listen to all the

00:46:54

negativity but you know everyone's got

00:46:56

an opinion and and Team New Zealand is

00:46:58

always

00:46:59

being you know the only way it's been

00:47:01

able to survive is through Government

00:47:02

funding you know in some aspect and

00:47:06

with that comes the I guess that that

00:47:08

feeling of public ownership you know the

00:47:10

New Zealand you know

00:47:11

um feel like so even even though I

00:47:14

wasn't just a handout it was still I

00:47:16

guess perceived as a handout and it's um

00:47:19

yo that's what it's supposed to take

00:47:20

taxpayers uh feel like they uh have a

00:47:24

sense of ownership in a way I guess yeah

00:47:25

yeah and they want accountability which

00:47:27

is absolutely fair enough you know like

00:47:29

it's um any any sporting team that

00:47:31

doesn't succeed you know you you do need

00:47:33

to have accountability to understand how

00:47:35

you can do things better and so

00:47:38

um but from a personal point of view

00:47:40

like the the

00:47:42

um I suppose the focus the media

00:47:44

attention the negativity and things

00:47:46

around it all you know should it really

00:47:48

does make you question why why the hell

00:47:50

do you you die

00:47:51

um because you know the motivation was

00:47:53

always very

00:47:55

strong you know trying to to win the cup

00:47:57

for you know for New Zealand and to

00:47:59

bring the America's Cup back to New

00:48:00

Zealand you know once once it left but

00:48:03

um you would you would have wanted it

00:48:04

more than anybody oh I was just you know

00:48:06

like yeah

00:48:08

San Francisco will be the biggest you

00:48:09

know that'll be the hardest thing to

00:48:11

ever digest you know like how that kind

00:48:13

of went San Francisco is that um 2013

00:48:15

yeah okay yeah and you know like that

00:48:17

will be you know the one thing that I'll

00:48:19

you know I'll look back on and with

00:48:22

regret that you know the whole way

00:48:23

through you know but the rest of my life

00:48:25

you know it's just because we were so

00:48:27

close and you literally could touch you

00:48:28

know you could touch them and it didn't

00:48:30

end up um Falling Away we did and again

00:48:32

that team was phenomenal but you know we

00:48:35

just ultimately you know they uh they

00:48:37

ended up with a better boat okay well

00:48:39

let's go straight there it's the 2013

00:48:41

this is 10 years ago now and I can still

00:48:43

10 years on I can still say you know you

00:48:47

you almost like once when you sort of

00:48:49

like bring it up you sort of bristle a

00:48:51

little bit so this was um yeah San

00:48:53

Francisco you guys against Oracle and

00:48:56

one of the the biggest comebacks in

00:48:58

sporting history so Team New Zealand was

00:49:00

up

00:49:01

what was the score we're eight uh eight

00:49:04

one up eight one and you needed to you

00:49:06

needed one more race to win yeah but

00:49:08

then what did they do they brought in

00:49:09

some parts from overseas or they bought

00:49:11

in souvenirsley no no so you know people

00:49:15

people sort of um

00:49:17

you know it sounds like a bit of a

00:49:19

cop-out but so when when we started

00:49:21

started the uh the Regatta they they

00:49:24

were still at sixes and seven so being

00:49:26

pulled up for uh for cheating they'd um

00:49:28

they'd been tampering with you know

00:49:30

their smaller boats had been through

00:49:32

some like a court court sort of one I

00:49:34

caught an arbitration hearing which um

00:49:36

you know found them at fault you know

00:49:38

they got penalized couple of their

00:49:39

Sailors couldn't be on the boat you know

00:49:40

so they they were really in a bit of

00:49:43

disarray so we're tuned up in San Fran

00:49:45

yeah we've gone through the Louis

00:49:47

Vuitton series and and the and we're you

00:49:49

know we're basically uh just getting

00:49:51

better and better at sailing our boat so

00:49:52

we're selling that at a really high

00:49:53

level

00:49:55

um they were they were still really

00:49:57

struggling to get their thing around the

00:49:58

course they weren't foil jiving and

00:50:01

falling the boat consistently on the

00:50:03

downwind you know they were um

00:50:05

struggling to get that sort of

00:50:06

consistency that we we you know were um

00:50:09

you know at a much higher level so when

00:50:12

we started the cup you know we were you

00:50:14

know we're a lot faster than them on the

00:50:15

up ones you know we'd typically we'd

00:50:17

sort of gain

00:50:18

45 seconds every upwind and and you know

00:50:21

downwind you know we'd normally be a bit

00:50:23

stronger there as well

00:50:25

the Regatta was a really really long

00:50:26

series and

00:50:28

um you know by the time

00:50:31

um

00:50:32

yeah by the time we sort of got all the

00:50:33

way through there was weather delays

00:50:35

There Was You Know days off

00:50:38

um other bits and pieces you know the

00:50:40

races got called off because we went

00:50:42

above the wind limit we had one race

00:50:44

that you know we were had a massive lead

00:50:46

in the um and we ran out of the time

00:50:49

limit

00:50:50

um it was just like went on and on and

00:50:53

on I think you know the racing probably

00:50:54

was the better part of three weeks you

00:50:56

know by the time we

00:50:57

from the start to the end

00:50:59

um

00:51:00

so every every day they they were going

00:51:03

out there and they were just slowly

00:51:05

getting better and better and better and

00:51:06

you know the the deficit that they were

00:51:09

suffering on the up ones that we they

00:51:10

were definitely whittling away at that

00:51:11

so we were still ticking away with race

00:51:13

ones you know they'd get the old one

00:51:15

here and there but then it was like um

00:51:17

you know it was becoming apparent that

00:51:19

you know we needed to get you know get

00:51:20

it finished because they were

00:51:22

you know they were getting you know

00:51:23

really really you know difficult to

00:51:25

actually hold off or beat and

00:51:27

so you know by the end

00:51:30

um

00:51:31

yeah they they turned the 45 second

00:51:33

deficit into a probably a 45 second

00:51:35

Advantage where they were able to get

00:51:37

their boat falling on the upwinds which

00:51:38

you know our systems were limited we

00:51:40

couldn't we couldn't manage stable

00:51:42

flight

00:51:43

um on the Uplands and and that was just

00:51:45

the game changer you know because by the

00:51:47

end we're both very similar on the down

00:51:49

ones you know the the last two races you

00:51:51

know we were um we we LED them around

00:51:53

the the bottom and normally if you had

00:51:55

that Advantage it would be race over but

00:51:58

they were just you know literally sell

00:51:59

straight past us on the other ones so it

00:52:02

was incredibly um frustrating but you

00:52:04

know the the the worst one was you know

00:52:07

when we were leading in the the race

00:52:09

that um that the we ran out of time

00:52:14

um I think we're leading by over a

00:52:15

kilometer on that race but it you know

00:52:17

it was just like

00:52:19

just all the bad luck in the world oh it

00:52:21

was just like you know I think we're

00:52:23

like two minutes from the Finish Line

00:52:24

you know it was just so you know you

00:52:26

could

00:52:27

you know

00:52:30

where's where's the break you know and

00:52:31

it just um

00:52:33

yeah and so just was just one of those

00:52:35

things where just keep going and going

00:52:37

and going and it was just yeah so eight

00:52:39

one and then just just day by day that

00:52:41

they're just talking up the wins

00:52:45

the sort of that mechanical issue on one

00:52:48

of the One races where you know we went

00:52:49

into the tech when we're leading and you

00:52:51

know nearly capsized you know obviously

00:52:53

saving that you know saved a huge amount

00:52:55

of um

00:52:56

issue with damage and things but but you

00:52:59

know we won that race we would it would

00:53:01

have won as well you know and it's

00:53:02

always easier after the fact you know

00:53:04

the would have been cut off and

00:53:05

everything else but

00:53:07

yeah it'll always be really hard to kind

00:53:09

of sit there and look at that one and

00:53:11

say that was uh

00:53:13

yeah yeah do you think do you think

00:53:14

you're over it now or not I I don't I

00:53:16

don't feel like you are but I can't put

00:53:17

words in your mouth but I've had Shane

00:53:18

Cameron on the podcast and he told me

00:53:20

the um that devastating loss here to

00:53:23

David tour he reckons it took him like

00:53:24

seven years to get over it seven years

00:53:25

before you know he'd get through a day

00:53:28

and not think about it

00:53:30

it's interesting like I

00:53:33

I definitely don't think about it every

00:53:34

day but um but I do I do still reflect

00:53:38

on just that thing because you know on

00:53:40

one hand

00:53:41

um

00:53:43

you look at again you look at all the

00:53:45

Fantastic things that the team had done

00:53:47

over the thing where the first team to

00:53:49

you know look at the the rule a bit

00:53:51

differently and figure out that they get

00:53:53

these boats foiling and you know you

00:53:54

look at where

00:53:55

where we are today every every boat yeah

00:53:58

around the world now seems to want to go

00:53:59

foiling in the America's Cup where it is

00:54:01

and

00:54:03

um

00:54:03

you know it changed the course of of

00:54:05

sailing it was sort of pioneering a

00:54:07

different different sort of pathway and

00:54:11

yeah there are a lot of things we could

00:54:12

have done better you know we could have

00:54:14

done you know 100 different things

00:54:16

better but it's

00:54:17

you know you just sort of just

00:54:19

scratching the surface the whole time

00:54:21

and it felt like we were

00:54:22

far enough it hit all the way through

00:54:24

the the process that would you know be

00:54:25

able to sort of maintain that but

00:54:27

you know they they did an amazing job of

00:54:30

actually sort of um you know catching

00:54:32

back up and and you know giving

00:54:34

themselves the opportunity to actually

00:54:35

uh

00:54:37

um you know overtake and and they and

00:54:39

they did it you know only by the you

00:54:41

know the very Barista margins but and is

00:54:44

that when we um as new zealanders got to

00:54:46

meet Jimmy spell he was the captain of

00:54:47

the other boat right yeah so that was

00:54:49

that started this sort of um media I

00:54:51

suppose rivalry between you two yeah

00:54:53

also looking to be number one

00:54:55

you know um so Jim and I we raced

00:54:58

against each other a lot over the years

00:54:59

uh on the match racing circuit so he was

00:55:02

the skipper of um or the Helmsman of

00:55:05

uh Luna Rossa we raced them in the final

00:55:07

of the Louis Vuitton Cup in Valencia in

00:55:09

2007 so we beat them

00:55:12

and we better we beat them 5-0 in there

00:55:15

to to race against the lingi for the the

00:55:17

cup so that was sort of the first time

00:55:19

we'd sort of rate you know that I'd you

00:55:21

know it was really Head to Head you know

00:55:22

in sort of a decent event with Jimmy and

00:55:25

then obviously he was the uh the skipper

00:55:28

of Oracle when uh San Francisco and then

00:55:32

you know again for Oracle and Bermuda

00:55:34

and the following one but

00:55:36

yeah we certainly didn't um didn't hang

00:55:39

out or anything

00:55:40

is he the right guy though we're

00:55:43

actually great great mates yeah so it's

00:55:45

quite a small community isn't it the

00:55:47

Sailing Community yeah on the big scheme

00:55:48

of things it is

00:55:50

um

00:55:51

the Oracle Team New Zealand days you

00:55:53

know there was definitely a lot of um a

00:55:55

lot of hate you know you know it was

00:55:57

definitely very very competitive

00:55:58

um

00:55:59

but um but you know you do learn over

00:56:02

time that you know you are

00:56:04

you know your Fierce competitors on the

00:56:06

water but you know you do need to be

00:56:08

able to

00:56:09

compartmentalize or yeah exactly you

00:56:11

know there's

00:56:12

sort of a bit bigger than just you know

00:56:14

just the the sports field so

00:56:17

um

00:56:18

and you know I think

00:56:20

always have healthy respect for for each

00:56:22

other but it's just um

00:56:24

yeah there was you know he got you on

00:56:27

that occasion well actually not not yeah

00:56:29

he didn't get you on that occasion you

00:56:31

were just one man on the on the [ __ ] oh

00:56:32

yeah but you know like yeah I suppose

00:56:34

you wear the weight of the world on your

00:56:35

shoulders as the captain but yeah I mean

00:56:38

it's a far bigger picture than that

00:56:40

isn't it yeah but how is it how was your

00:56:42

mental health through that time like I I

00:56:44

I just can't imagine how difficult it is

00:56:45

to you know to get through something

00:56:47

like that did you have like a was there

00:56:49

like a team sports psychologist or

00:56:51

anything like that it was um you know

00:56:53

you obviously work together as a squad

00:56:55

as a team yeah you're sort of you talk

00:56:57

through you know where where things are

00:56:58

at you know like

00:57:00

um everyone deals with things in

00:57:02

different ways you know I don't think

00:57:03

two two people can be this you know are

00:57:05

either going to deal with things to say

00:57:07

um

00:57:09

again you know the what while you're in

00:57:11

the in the process or going through the

00:57:13

the races you don't

00:57:15

um

00:57:16

you don't really sense it it's only sort

00:57:19

of when it's it's all said and done that

00:57:21

you

00:57:22

you know you really I guess feel that

00:57:25

sort of the hurt of um you know the

00:57:28

the disappointment you know the emotion

00:57:31

that goes with it because you literally

00:57:33

put everything into into it and for me

00:57:35

that was really the one where it hurt

00:57:37

the most because you you literally have

00:57:39

put everything you have into into their

00:57:42

campaign over many years and

00:57:45

and then one day it's just you know it's

00:57:46

suddenly there's no more races and it

00:57:48

and it's over and you'd

00:57:50

yeah you're packing up and you're going

00:57:52

home and it's

00:57:53

it's bloody hard because you've you

00:57:56

don't ever for one minute think about

00:57:58

what's going to happen tomorrow you know

00:58:00

you're always thinking about

00:58:01

you know the Regatta and and

00:58:04

going out there to win races and and

00:58:06

ultimately won the cup

00:58:08

so when it when it finishes and you

00:58:11

haven't got what you're looking for or

00:58:13

you the result that you expect to to get

00:58:15

it just it's just this massive black

00:58:17

hole you know where you just sort of

00:58:19

thing

00:58:19

what next and so uh yeah so to to deal

00:58:23

with that was um and that that for sure

00:58:25

has been the hardest one ever to to kind

00:58:28

of to deal with you know just because

00:58:30

we'd been so close we we felt like we'd

00:58:33

had the opportunity to to win that one

00:58:36

um I was one hand on the trophy as

00:58:38

people were saying yeah and so so to to

00:58:41

not

00:58:42

um was just like yeah incredibly um

00:58:45

incredibly hard to

00:58:47

to deal with and was the uh was was

00:58:50

there like a Fallout or a personality

00:58:52

clash with you and Grand Dalton at that

00:58:54

time or was that just like a media sort

00:58:55

of no you know we'd been fine all the

00:58:58

way through it um obviously you know

00:59:00

probably where

00:59:03

where

00:59:04

um escalator was when you know the

00:59:06

you know obviously the media sort of um

00:59:09

started climbing on board sort of you

00:59:11

know picking apart all the different

00:59:12

decisions and things that have been made

00:59:14

during that um that process and you know

00:59:16

obviously that created a bit of um a bit

00:59:18

of friction yeah

00:59:20

um

00:59:21

yeah oh man you've been through the ring

00:59:23

array like it's it's not a career for

00:59:25

the faint

00:59:27

should I you know it would have been a

00:59:30

lot nicer to be sitting here you know

00:59:31

talking about you know how I won that

00:59:33

one and then I won that one and yeah

00:59:35

yeah but when you look back now like and

00:59:37

you reflect on your career so far

00:59:40

um it's not done yet are you happy with

00:59:42

it

00:59:44

um there's not a thing that I would

00:59:45

change yeah obviously other than if you

00:59:47

could the results but um but but you

00:59:50

know I've been very very fortunate to

00:59:52

work with some amazing people and you

00:59:54

know being part of some really special

00:59:55

teams and

00:59:57

you work with so many talented

00:59:59

individuals you know like in design sure

01:00:02

team you know uh trainers you know all

01:00:05

these different people that

01:00:07

um open your eyes to different ways of

01:00:09

doing things and how to be a better

01:00:11

person and just I've always been

01:00:13

fascinated with the um the engineering

01:00:15

and design and the technology of um of

01:00:18

what we do and

01:00:20

yeah I think

01:00:22

if it was just going out and doing the

01:00:24

same thing over and over and over you'd

01:00:26

very quickly become bored but because

01:00:28

you're always learning you know every

01:00:30

single day you'd wake up you'd be

01:00:31

thinking you know

01:00:32

what are we going to learn today is it

01:00:34

is the boat going to be faster is there

01:00:36

some you know better way of doing

01:00:37

something are we going to learn you know

01:00:39

a different technique of how to race the

01:00:41

boat better or what you're always

01:00:42

challenging yourself to be be better and

01:00:45

and I think that was probably one of the

01:00:48

the best um the best things about it

01:00:50

like to to go to work and know that

01:00:53

you're you're probably going to come

01:00:55

home slightly better off than you will

01:00:57

when you when you arrived it's it was

01:00:59

pretty cool yeah so they're um they're

01:01:02

two very very different but two very big

01:01:05

events in your life so there's the um

01:01:07

like the bowel cancer diagnosis and the

01:01:09

2013 America's Cup and that whole

01:01:11

campaign and then the ultimate

01:01:13

disappointment at the end how like how

01:01:14

do those two

01:01:16

um compare in terms of like big things

01:01:18

on the scheme of life is is there any

01:01:20

sort of

01:01:22

um

01:01:24

I don't know if ever really thought

01:01:26

about it like that it's um they're too

01:01:29

suppose one one big difference is like

01:01:31

yeah they are both both big things one's

01:01:34

a matter of life and death the other

01:01:35

one's not it's just sport but one of one

01:01:37

you can do in in private with just your

01:01:39

family the other one you've got the you

01:01:41

know four million people with an opinion

01:01:43

even though they don't injection about

01:01:45

it

01:01:46

I think that the biggest difference I'm

01:01:47

just thinking you know thinking about is

01:01:48

sitting here now but probably the

01:01:51

biggest one for me was that you know one

01:01:52

is as you say it's a personal

01:01:55

um you know it's it's sort of you

01:01:58

against you know

01:01:59

something you can't even see or touch

01:02:01

you know you're just dealing with

01:02:03

something that has happened to your your

01:02:05

body and you can't really um

01:02:07

maybe you can't rationalize it or figure

01:02:09

out why but it's there and you've got to

01:02:11

deal with it you know the other is

01:02:13

something that you've you've planned for

01:02:14

and you've known and you've got your

01:02:17

sort of your timeline and everything

01:02:18

else and so you

01:02:20

you you've forgot the the benefit of

01:02:23

time to sort of make a make a plan and

01:02:25

and

01:02:26

um

01:02:27

figure out how you're going to sort of

01:02:29

put all the pieces together working with

01:02:30

a group of people so your one's a very

01:02:32

personal thing one's a yeah a much

01:02:35

bigger

01:02:36

bigger thing where you're sort of

01:02:37

operating on on a different kind of

01:02:38

scale I suppose but um what's harder

01:02:42

well yeah without doubt it's uh you know

01:02:46

the personal you know battle with um

01:02:47

with your health because you know it's

01:02:49

the one thing that

01:02:51

um you know you you know that you have

01:02:53

to win it's uh you know it's not not one

01:02:56

that you can

01:02:57

sort of accept the other the other

01:02:59

alternative yeah oh thanks for that

01:03:01

explanation yeah sorry for putting you

01:03:03

on the spot

01:03:05

no it's quite an interesting way to look

01:03:07

it up well I mean you've just been

01:03:09

through like that 2013 America's Cup

01:03:10

campaign

01:03:12

um

01:03:13

you know you it's it's a team sport but

01:03:15

it's um you've been through something

01:03:16

that no one else will ever ever get to

01:03:18

go through and I just can't imagine what

01:03:20

it's like going through that and the

01:03:21

fact that you didn't made it through the

01:03:23

other end and you're a stronger person

01:03:24

for it you know it speaks loads about

01:03:26

your character I think yeah it's yeah

01:03:29

it's always it's just

01:03:31

it's amazing how you can keep

01:03:33

challenging yourself in different ways

01:03:34

and you know and hopefully you you're

01:03:36

better when you come out the other end

01:03:37

of it but it's yeah there's definitely

01:03:39

you know you you

01:03:41

've

01:03:42

um you definitely feel scars in

01:03:44

different ways you know whether it's

01:03:45

emotional or possible so

01:03:48

yeah where does that where does that

01:03:50

sort of um resilience and Inner Strength

01:03:52

come from is it something that you've

01:03:53

had to think about or it's just um just

01:03:55

in you and you're just a tough [ __ ]

01:03:59

um I wouldn't categorize myself as that

01:04:00

I just I think it's um you you know you

01:04:04

probably develop thick skin over time

01:04:06

because you know you

01:04:08

certainly with uh been involved in a uh

01:04:11

The Team New Zealand campaigns

01:04:13

where you are very much in the public

01:04:15

eye a lot of the time it's um and and

01:04:18

that support is you know is fantastic

01:04:19

you know when it's there but obviously

01:04:21

the aftermath when it's not it hasn't

01:04:23

gone well you know you you do have to be

01:04:25

um

01:04:26

recovery resilient you know because it's

01:04:28

just you know you you do get yeah you

01:04:31

just get beaten down and down and down

01:04:33

and it is really really tough you know

01:04:35

because a lot of it's very personal and

01:04:38

um you know some of it's very uneducated

01:04:40

but it's an opinion that people have oh

01:04:43

most of it is uneducated when the

01:04:46

America's Cup's on like suddenly

01:04:47

everyone's using yachting terminology

01:04:49

that we've heard on the TV but we know

01:04:51

nothing about what's going on yeah but

01:04:54

but again you know when when there's

01:04:55

been public money involved you know and

01:04:57

that feels like it's sort of that sense

01:04:59

of you know accountability and people

01:05:00

you know they do care which is which is

01:05:02

great you know and I think New Zealand

01:05:04

you know whether it's the All Blacks or

01:05:06

the the cricket team or the netballers

01:05:08

or you know whatever it might be at the

01:05:10

time the Olympics you know everyone's

01:05:11

got an opinion you know and it New

01:05:13

Zealand

01:05:14

you know I've been fortunate to travel a

01:05:16

lot to go to you know to you know lots

01:05:19

of different places with the sailing and

01:05:20

and it's been great opportunity but

01:05:22

people can't often understand how New

01:05:26

Zealand can be so focused on on you know

01:05:29

on Sports and sports teams yeah yeah

01:05:31

yeah you know it's it is quite quite

01:05:33

remarkable but

01:05:34

yeah it is cool to see at the same time

01:05:37

you know that um the way that the

01:05:39

country does embrace and get them behind

01:05:40

you know the different different things

01:05:42

that are on you know at any particular

01:05:44

time yeah actually we haven't even

01:05:46

mentioned you going to the Olympics so

01:05:47

you went to the 2004 Olympics in Athens

01:05:50

um

01:05:50

who was uh Sarah Alma she won a gold the

01:05:53

Evis Wendell's twins I think Ben Phillie

01:05:56

did okay what are your memories of the

01:05:58

Olympics was it a fun time it was a good

01:06:00

experience yeah it was good like I

01:06:02

tried to qualify in 96 and you know got

01:06:04

really close you know

01:06:06

um and it was something that I really

01:06:08

wanted to go and participate in and so

01:06:10

after the 2003 cup I jumped back in the

01:06:15

fin uh had six months to basically

01:06:17

prepare for the games and it was just

01:06:19

you know sort of thinking well

01:06:21

you know if I can be involved in the

01:06:23

America's Cup you know surely I can do

01:06:24

the Olympics and

01:06:25

you know it was a bit of a it was a

01:06:27

mistake because I just hadn't had enough

01:06:29

time you know that most most people were

01:06:30

in the sailing and probably most other

01:06:32

sports you know they've dedicated the

01:06:34

past four or six or eight years whatever

01:06:36

two you know the ultimate goal and

01:06:39

um yeah I just didn't didn't have enough

01:06:41

time I had some good results leading up

01:06:42

to it got to the games and just wasn't

01:06:44

just wasn't good enough you know to

01:06:47

um to be able to get you know to a

01:06:49

middle position but yeah I think you

01:06:50

finished um like 12th or something but

01:06:52

but yeah that aside was that a fun

01:06:54

experience going to the Olympic Games I

01:06:56

mean you know it's yeah it's one of the

01:06:58

it's an experience where you need I

01:07:00

really think you'd benefit by going

01:07:02

going twice you know where you you

01:07:04

understand the process you you learn the

01:07:07

the lessons you know you sort of see

01:07:09

what's going on because it is it is

01:07:10

quite a a daunting thing you know you

01:07:12

get there and you know the security and

01:07:14

the athletes and

01:07:15

you know the the team Village and all

01:07:18

all of those things you look at it you

01:07:19

just go wow you know this this is pretty

01:07:22

Implement amazing you know and um

01:07:25

yeah it's um

01:07:27

but you know that was when they the um

01:07:30

Hamish and Bevin oh the toiathlon one

01:07:33

and two yeah that was remarkable going

01:07:36

along and watching that you know seeing

01:07:37

those guys doing yeah it just yeah good

01:07:40

oh it was just it was just so cool you

01:07:42

know like um you know to see New Zealand

01:07:44

doing so well on the world stage you

01:07:46

know it's um you know we punched so far

01:07:49

above our way you know internationally

01:07:51

it's uh it's amazing and yeah you look

01:07:54

at the the two um two girls is Amy and

01:07:57

Lisa you know this in the uh remarkable

01:08:00

you know like you know it's just how can

01:08:02

two people you know dominate a you know

01:08:05

a world you know the World sport you

01:08:07

know yeah you must be a case of them

01:08:09

sort of like pushing each other or

01:08:10

keeping each other honest yeah which is

01:08:12

which is you know again as it seems like

01:08:14

a very New Zealand thing and um

01:08:17

how have um people in the public been to

01:08:19

you over the years has it only ever been

01:08:21

nice has there ever been anyone that's

01:08:23

that's come up you know during good

01:08:24

times or bad times and you know being

01:08:27

inappropriate

01:08:29

um again everyone everyone's got an

01:08:31

opinion and you know like when you jump

01:08:32

in the taxi and uh and yeah they start

01:08:35

telling you about foiling tax and how

01:08:36

you could do this that this better and

01:08:38

everything else it's kind of it's pretty

01:08:40

hard case but um no I have to say

01:08:44

um you know all in all like the the

01:08:47

support that I've had through my career

01:08:48

you know particularly when I've been you

01:08:50

know sailing as part of Team New Zealand

01:08:52

or whatever it's just been it's been

01:08:53

phenomenal when they even you know like

01:08:55

when we're here with American Media you

01:08:57

know just

01:08:58

um I think the New Zealand Public in

01:09:01

relation to America's Cup probably are

01:09:02

more accepting now that that you know

01:09:05

only a certain number of people can work

01:09:06

for for Team New Zealand and then kiwis

01:09:09

go and work for other other teams

01:09:10

because you know they're perceived as

01:09:13

um been able to bring you know a lot of

01:09:15

a lot of you know probably good uh

01:09:18

attributes to what their you know the

01:09:19

other teams are doing and so

01:09:21

but yeah it's the support that I've

01:09:23

always felt has been you know been

01:09:25

pretty pretty special you know you

01:09:27

definitely treasure a lot of the uh a

01:09:29

lot of that and

01:09:31

um

01:09:31

and you do realize that you know when

01:09:33

things don't go well that you do need to

01:09:34

be you know be prepared to you know I

01:09:36

guess be able to stand there and and uh

01:09:39

you know talk about you know

01:09:41

the reasons why yeah yeah I I've had um

01:09:44

seriously Bloomfield sitting in that

01:09:46

chair and he said someone came up to him

01:09:47

once and said I I hope you have a bad

01:09:49

day and that's the worst he got

01:09:51

um it is nice to know that um even when

01:09:54

things are things are tough and people

01:09:55

feel like they've got a right to say

01:09:56

something that they they just don't they

01:09:58

save that stuff for the internet

01:10:01

and there was another I guess it's been

01:10:03

a lesson you know avoid the internet

01:10:04

because that is you know like some of

01:10:06

the forums and things that exist you

01:10:07

know again they'd make you want to give

01:10:10

up you know before you even start you

01:10:12

know because they again the keyboard

01:10:14

Warriors you know they've got plenty to

01:10:15

say and uh yeah without any any sort of

01:10:19

basis to to sort of um you know be able

01:10:22

to to say you know Laurel what they do

01:10:23

say so yeah

01:10:25

um

01:10:26

but yeah when you when you reflect on

01:10:28

your your career so far mostly happy

01:10:30

with it it's been a lot of highlights

01:10:32

yeah there's a lot of yeah a lot of

01:10:35

things which I've you know really you

01:10:36

know feel very fortunate to have had the

01:10:38

opportunity to do

01:10:39

um

01:10:40

now again you know if if you're you know

01:10:43

reflecting on it San Francisco

01:10:44

definitely it was one that got away you

01:10:46

know Valencia we we had a probably as

01:10:49

good a shot as we could have you know

01:10:51

but I think in the end of long you were

01:10:52

just again still still too strong

01:10:55

um

01:10:56

but yeah I've you know I've been just so

01:10:59

so lucky to work with you know some

01:11:00

great teams and to be to be you know a

01:11:02

part of that so you know I really have

01:11:05

enjoyed everything that I've done there

01:11:07

um

01:11:08

but you know you definitely reach a

01:11:09

point you know for me it was

01:11:11

you know at 46 you know finding out

01:11:13

about the

01:11:14

uh the bowel cancer and that really

01:11:17

probably

01:11:19

I guess rang you know it rang home at

01:11:21

that point but things were um

01:11:24

you know I needed to probably just take

01:11:25

a step back and and reevaluate you know

01:11:27

where I was and what I was doing because

01:11:30

again the body's telling you something

01:11:33

um it doesn't happen you know just

01:11:35

because it wants to but it's probably

01:11:37

something going on that you need to

01:11:38

probably address and how's the second

01:11:40

half of your life gonna look um you your

01:11:42

kids are pretty much almost off your

01:11:44

hands now right how uh

01:11:45

so we've got four kids

01:11:48

um eldest one's just turned 18.

01:11:51

um they're got a 15 14 12 so a few more

01:11:55

years people you're at the age now where

01:11:57

you and you and Mandy can go out for

01:11:58

dinner and someone's going to look after

01:11:59

someone

01:12:00

yeah no it's good we're sort of

01:12:02

definitely you know you you do feel like

01:12:04

you sort of get a bit of a bit of time

01:12:06

back but and saying that you know the

01:12:08

kids are just so active with with school

01:12:11

Sport and Club Sport and everything else

01:12:14

and it is actually really nice to see

01:12:16

them going out and doing things for

01:12:18

themselves you know like they we've

01:12:20

never pushed them into doing anything

01:12:22

that they don't want to do themselves

01:12:24

but it is nice to see uh see them really

01:12:27

active and I think the best part about

01:12:30

it is that they're it's keeping them off

01:12:31

their devices and and everything else

01:12:33

because it is very different now to now

01:12:36

we used to go out there and climb trees

01:12:37

and you know like ride bikes around the

01:12:39

neighborhood and you know now it's like

01:12:41

yeah oh there's so much that you can do

01:12:43

on your devices yeah it's a completely

01:12:45

different game now isn't it so how long

01:12:48

have you been

01:12:49

20 years yeah we got married and you're

01:12:52

just about yeah we got married in 2004.

01:12:54

congratulations yeah so it's uh yeah I

01:12:58

don't know how Mandy's put up me for

01:12:59

that long

01:13:00

yeah how did you guys make so Mandy was

01:13:04

um

01:13:05

she's she she's been out of the public

01:13:06

eye for such a long time now I feel like

01:13:09

this is by Design but

01:13:11

um yeah there was a time so she was

01:13:13

seeing Mark Alice for a number of years

01:13:14

in their varsity days and they were like

01:13:15

the couple of New Zealand like the

01:13:17

sporting couple you had an all black and

01:13:19

a you know black Stacks hockey player

01:13:22

um then then yeah how did you guys make

01:13:24

how did that come about oh I was a blind

01:13:25

date after uh it was after 2000 I went

01:13:28

over to Sydney and and uh

01:13:32

uh and watch watch to play what you know

01:13:34

we don't watch the New Zealand hockey

01:13:36

hockey team play their was their playoff

01:13:40

match to get into the gold and silver

01:13:43

um

01:13:43

yeah right against Argentina and you

01:13:46

know it obviously didn't work out the

01:13:48

way they wanted but

01:13:50

um

01:13:51

I was aware of it you know of her then

01:13:53

you know nothing really

01:13:55

um but you know later in the year we

01:13:57

sort of um you know a mutual friend sort

01:13:58

of set us up on a blind date and when we

01:14:00

went out I was um yeah Restless history

01:14:02

but it's

01:14:04

it was um yeah it was pretty

01:14:07

yeah it's been great like you know we've

01:14:09

had some fantastic times together you

01:14:11

know we've been um

01:14:13

I think having that sort of same more

01:14:15

sharing you know passion for sport and

01:14:17

and sort of been involved in teams and

01:14:19

everything else I think that's been been

01:14:21

great and

01:14:23

yeah obviously we have a very

01:14:24

competitive uh relationship at times

01:14:27

like what about anything tennis or you

01:14:31

know like yes

01:14:32

um or you know golf I've probably got

01:14:35

the better of her on that one but it's

01:14:36

um but no no we've done things like

01:14:37

board games though no no no no no no no

01:14:39

no no but no it's been it's been

01:14:42

fantastic and she's you know she's been

01:14:43

a huge you know support you know

01:14:46

um you know when things haven't been

01:14:47

great you know um

01:14:49

but never more so than you know

01:14:51

obviously going through the health the

01:14:52

health issues yeah like um you know

01:14:54

having that support I think you know

01:14:55

there's no way I would have got through

01:14:56

what I'd been through without you know

01:14:58

having her there to to help through with

01:15:00

that it's um

01:15:01

you know because it is very very taxing

01:15:03

you know you sort of think you're

01:15:04

dealing with it okay but

01:15:06

you definitely have some some down time

01:15:08

or down days as well yeah without a

01:15:11

doubt

01:15:11

um and I suppose with her background in

01:15:13

high performance sport herself she can

01:15:15

offer some

01:15:16

sort of perspective on things like when

01:15:18

things like I suppose in 2013 San

01:15:20

Francisco when when things don't go well

01:15:22

or is it just a case of just her her

01:15:24

being there as your support person oh

01:15:25

both you know yeah yeah she she

01:15:28

obviously you know has has experienced

01:15:30

highs and lows with um with what she's

01:15:31

done with the hockey and and other

01:15:33

things as well and you know she um

01:15:37

you know she's she had a really tough um

01:15:39

experience when new and she was young

01:15:41

her elder sister um

01:15:43

you know died of a brain tumor you know

01:15:45

you know at a very young age you know

01:15:47

early 20s and and so

01:15:49

you know she's she's experienced some

01:15:51

pretty tough personal losses as well

01:15:54

um

01:15:55

and so um

01:15:57

yeah it just helps to bring a balance

01:15:59

because you know it is easy to sit there

01:16:01

sort of feeling you know a little bit

01:16:02

down and maybe a bit sorry for yourself

01:16:04

and you know just that sort of gentle

01:16:06

reminder that

01:16:07

you know there's there's a there's other

01:16:09

things going on out there as well and so

01:16:11

you know it is good to have that sort of

01:16:13

grounding yeah

01:16:14

so uh yeah so when's when do you know

01:16:17

when your wedding date is when's the

01:16:18

20th anniversary it's February yeah oh

01:16:21

next year next year will be 20 years

01:16:23

right oh that's that's a milestone to be

01:16:25

proud of I got married in 2004 as well

01:16:27

but I'm no longer with my wife so

01:16:29

congratulations

01:16:31

oh thank you you know it's uh yeah it's

01:16:35

oh yeah yeah obviously very lucky you

01:16:36

know we sort of had a you know a great

01:16:38

relationship but it's um you know and

01:16:39

she's obviously never one sort of

01:16:41

question you know traveling to Nevada

01:16:43

carry on doing what we've been doing

01:16:45

um with all the different sailing and

01:16:47

teams and what have you but

01:16:49

but you know she's obviously been a huge

01:16:51

part of you know keeping the kids sorted

01:16:54

organized and grounded and things you

01:16:56

know because you know I've often had to

01:16:58

travel when things managed to be there

01:16:59

for all the bursts which was probably an

01:17:01

achievement but um I wouldn't be worth

01:17:04

living if you didn't yeah I don't know

01:17:06

you didn't hear about that that's for

01:17:07

sure yeah what's that like I've never

01:17:09

been able to have my own own kids so

01:17:10

I've never experienced that but it's um

01:17:12

yeah it's an emotional experience just a

01:17:15

an exciting experience

01:17:18

um the the first one I think is was

01:17:21

definitely was definitely probably the

01:17:23

most interesting because you know you're

01:17:26

in there you've had the baby well I

01:17:29

haven't Mandy has um and take a movement

01:17:31

then a few hours later you know you're

01:17:33

basically walking out the front door of

01:17:34

the hospital with the capsule going you

01:17:37

know where's the instruction manual you

01:17:38

know like it's uh it's definitely

01:17:40

and then by the time number four rolls

01:17:42

around you know you sort of basically

01:17:44

you throw them the caption off you go

01:17:45

you know it's like um you know very

01:17:47

different sort of uh

01:17:49

the way you look at it the first one you

01:17:51

know I think for everyone it's always

01:17:52

you know they're wrapped in Cotton wall

01:17:53

and you know they're but you very

01:17:55

quickly realize how kind of uh robust

01:17:58

they are and you know like that and the

01:18:01

unique thing is how different they they

01:18:03

all are like just same parents but

01:18:06

different you know completely different

01:18:07

outcomes so yeah yeah yeah it's I've Got

01:18:11

Friends that say exactly the same thing

01:18:12

like they said the first kid that you

01:18:14

know race to a e in the middle of the

01:18:15

night with even a little cough and by

01:18:17

the time of kid number three they could

01:18:18

be like coughing in bed at night and

01:18:19

they're just like oh it'll be fine worry

01:18:21

about it in the morning oh how good how

01:18:23

good

01:18:24

um anyway thanks so much for coming over

01:18:26

today no no come at all I really really

01:18:29

appreciate it I feel like you're one of

01:18:30

these these people as I said at the

01:18:31

beginning everyone knows but um yeah by

01:18:33

Design like no one knows a lot about

01:18:35

Dean Barker because um you've just

01:18:37

you're just one of these new zealanders

01:18:39

almost like an old school New Zealander

01:18:40

where you've just like put your head

01:18:41

down McDonald's and got through with

01:18:44

things so I appreciate you coming today

01:18:46

and being so open about everything yeah

01:18:48

you do much running now are you mate

01:18:50

I've got osteoarthritis in the middle of

01:18:52

my knee so the last year has been a test

01:18:54

of patience trying to get back into it

01:18:56

um but yeah I got out for 10K this

01:18:57

morning a bit slower now but I think I

01:19:00

see you at the start line of one of the

01:19:01

Auckland marathons I used to I used to

01:19:03

love right running was yeah was my

01:19:05

release and I used to just love being

01:19:07

you know because it was so transportable

01:19:09

every time you went to a Regatta or

01:19:11

anything you know it was just so nice to

01:19:12

go out for a runs to clear the heater

01:19:14

yeah and things and then you know just

01:19:16

you know like as I got a little bit

01:19:18

older just really struggle with calf

01:19:20

injuries you know just really struggled

01:19:22

to get on top of it and just you know

01:19:24

be be running and

01:19:26

yeah just have an issue and just you

01:19:27

know then say I haven't got the biggest

01:19:29

carve so it probably doesn't help but um

01:19:31

but

01:19:32

yeah I used to love it but so yeah my my

01:19:34

Fitness training sort of cardios have

01:19:36

ended up being more on the on the

01:19:38

stationary bike you know Peloton and

01:19:39

that sort of thing yeah it's um oh aging

01:19:42

mate it's it's uh it's a terrible thing

01:19:44

yeah yeah yeah

01:19:46

um so what did you do a full Marathon

01:19:48

just a couple of halves I did two or

01:19:51

three halves here yeah um how'd you get

01:19:54

on you go right you're quite you're

01:19:55

quite a big donor you're taller than

01:19:56

what I imagined I think yeah I think the

01:19:58

best time of it was a 132 oh [ __ ] but

01:20:01

yeah I was okay I don't know what's your

01:20:04

what's your sort of oh let's not get

01:20:06

into comparing time so it doesn't matter

01:20:08

it's a very personal thing right I I got

01:20:11

down to like um I I did a one hour 23

01:20:14

half marathon which is good it took me

01:20:16

years I I had a goal of breaking three

01:20:18

hours in the marathon which is like four

01:20:20

four minutes 16k pace and I ended up

01:20:22

doing that one and done but the work

01:20:24

required to get me to that pace I

01:20:27

thought after doing it

01:20:29

yeah could I do it again could I go back

01:20:31

could I even go faster than two hours 57

01:20:33

which is what I did and the answer I

01:20:35

came up with was probably maybe I could

01:20:37

get down to 255 or two but whatever but

01:20:39

the amount of extra work required it

01:20:42

just wouldn't be worth the extra

01:20:43

satisfaction it would bring me yeah no

01:20:46

it's a you know running such a mental

01:20:48

thing isn't it because you know you it's

01:20:50

so easy I remember the first half I did

01:20:51

you know when you you line up and

01:20:53

everyone just bolts and and you sort of

01:20:56

you get you get caught up with your

01:20:57

adrenaline and everything else you know

01:20:58

you sort of almost forget about

01:20:59

everything you know about pacing and

01:21:01

things and yeah five or 10K in and

01:21:04

you're going oh my God you know like

01:21:05

it's uh

01:21:06

yeah so the second time around it was

01:21:08

actually you know much it was much

01:21:10

easier you just sort of you know you

01:21:11

have that discipline as you say you know

01:21:13

you look at your

01:21:14

their timing and your pace and

01:21:15

everything but because at the start line

01:21:17

of a half marathon or a marathon

01:21:19

everyone's feeling good you know you've

01:21:20

done the training you've tapered off

01:21:23

um you're feeling energized by being

01:21:25

around the crowd but that's the hard

01:21:26

thing going slow than what you feel like

01:21:28

you should in those opening case yeah

01:21:30

yeah no it is you know because I

01:21:33

um we had uh working with us at Team New

01:21:35

Zealand uh John Ackland who obviously oh

01:21:38

yeah yeah Legend is being so involved in

01:21:40

high performance you know Sport and

01:21:42

running and things and you know I

01:21:44

remember him saying you know like when I

01:21:45

went to do the first one and said you

01:21:47

know basically you've got to think of it

01:21:49

that 16k is probably where you want to

01:21:51

feel like you've exerted half your

01:21:52

energy you know and it's like yeah it

01:21:55

does it does sort of you know like the

01:21:56

first time around it does definitely

01:21:57

feel like that you know you you sort of

01:21:59

get there and you think oh it's only

01:22:00

five to go but it's they are it's it's a

01:22:03

tough 5K yeah never done them full um

01:22:06

you know it was one thing I was would

01:22:08

have liked to have done but

01:22:09

still could still could I just got to

01:22:11

transport the damn carves out but yeah

01:22:13

yeah mate you've um you've been through

01:22:16

so much if you uh anything you want to

01:22:18

put your mind to I reckon you could do

01:22:20

seriously like you've been through a lot

01:22:23

yeah no I do I do definitely miss the

01:22:26

running I'd like to I'd like to get back

01:22:27

into it but I just got out here try and

01:22:29

sort that part yeah

01:22:31

hey we're Dean Barker you're a great New

01:22:33

Zealander thank you so much for being uh

01:22:35

so open with your um your professional

01:22:37

and personal stories today really

01:22:38

appreciate it

01:22:40

best of luck for whatever the future

01:22:42

brings yeah you too

01:22:44

[Music]

01:22:58

thank you

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