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hey Runners only with dime Harley
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Runners only with dom Harvey and Dean
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Barker g'day mate hey Dom how are you
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I'm very well I I can't thank you enough
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for coming over I feel like you're one
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of these people most people in New
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Zealand are familiar with the name or
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the face maybe people see you out and
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about and they're like I know that face
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from somewhere because that's how long
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you've you've been around but I feel
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like no one knows a lot a lot about you
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you are by Design like a reasonably
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private guy so I was honored when you
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agreed to come on the podcast yeah no
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it's good nice to uh nice to be able to
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sit and have a chat with you yeah is
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that a fear thing to say though you're
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like you know quite a private guy
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um yeah we've uh we've always you know
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men and I've always been you know
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probably respected our privacy a lot you
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know um yeah obviously we're very
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fortunate we've had a lot of I guess
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public interest in different things that
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we've been doing you know with the
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sports and things over the years
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um
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you know and as you said I guess start
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to
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um you know maybe not be as active in
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the sporting front and things you know
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it's still been amazing the support that
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we've we've had you know over the years
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yeah yeah and
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um you're here this chat was organized
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by Bow cancer NZ which has become a
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charity that you've sort of become I
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don't know I suppose you've sort of
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attached your your face to it it's
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probably something you'd rather not but
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you know you end up in this position
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where you had bowel cancer so you're
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using your name uh and your reputation
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for for good which is fantastic yeah it
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was it was quite an interesting one
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um
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you know obviously I uh at the time when
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I sort of went through that all about
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cancer
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um diagnosis and treatment and things
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were up in the us at the time
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um you know we we very much kept it a
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very private thing you know it was only
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a lot of you know very close friends and
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family that sort of knew anything about
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it
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um
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it was a year ago really where I saw the
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promotion around the movie Buck campaign
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um with Jeannie Mae coffin sort of um
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fronting and really felt quite compelled
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to to try to to do a little bit in some
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way to help raise awareness around bowel
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cancer because it is a very curable
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disease if it's um early enough and uh
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and I think the
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the biggest motivation is you know like
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I was very very lucky because we had
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really good access to the medical
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profession up in in the US you know as a
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result of being involved with the
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America's Cup team
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um yeah so you were involved with um
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American magic at the time he was with
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American magic and so you know we've got
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really good access to uh to the
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different doctors and things and because
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we're able to get onto it early it gave
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me a much better chance to um you know
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to be able to
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uh deal with it fight it and um and
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hopefully you know go on and have a sort
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of a full full and long life but it's um
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you know unfortunately you know the Kiwi
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sort of attitude you know keeping male
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attitude of she'll be right mate
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um it isn't always uh isn't always the
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case you know and and I think um you
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know the one thing that I've learned
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over over at all and everything else has
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just been over you know been aware of
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your body listening to your body and if
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something's not right go and get cheap
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yeah have you been mostly good at that
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or do you think you've you know you're
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ashamed to say you're a little in a
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little bit [ __ ] with it I'm [ __ ] with it
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you know like I've always been that way
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you know you sort of um you know you
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just always think oh yeah for it healthy
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whatever it might be and that you'll be
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able to deal with it uh whatever it
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might be
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um in this particular case
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um you know it wasn't
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it wasn't something that um you know it
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was just going to come right you know I
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noticed a bit of blood in my stool which
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is you know obviously not one of those
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things that you're normally comfortable
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talking about but it's um
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uh and after you know it had been there
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for what three four weeks you know I
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finally actually did something about it
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three to four weeks okay so I was
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planning on um doing this podcast
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instead of chronological order going all
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the way back and then working our way so
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since since we're there already we may
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as well um stick with it yeah sorry
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sorry to sort of jump oh no no no no no
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no no no it's it's great and I think
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it's a really good message so it's
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probably good to get this done at the
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start before we get to the fun stuff of
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your life so um yes so you're training
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with America magic getting ready for the
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America's Cup campaign
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um and then you see you're not feeling
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unwell you've just got blood in your
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stool
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what was really stupid with the whole
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thing is I've probably had never felt
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fitter than I had at the time had been
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training you know really enjoying the
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training we'd been busy with the sailing
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we're in the process of moving from our
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summer training base which is a Newport
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Rhode Island and we would
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um so uh with Mandy and the kids we were
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relocating we were doing the drive down
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through the US to Pensacola and Florida
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uh redneck Riviera so that was um that
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was pretty because we had a four drive a
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four day drive down there but it was I
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sort of nice A little a few little
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things going on just um before we left
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Newport
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um still going on when we got to
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Pensacola you know still still there and
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it was like well
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I'll go and go and see the doctor and um
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and just you know try and figure out
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what was going on so it was um
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yeah again it was one of those things we
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just sort of thought no I'm fat healthy
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eating well sleeping well you know
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everything was kind of normal but um
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you're feeling fine feeling fine yeah
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there was no there was nothing else
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going on did you did you say anything to
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Mandy your wife like oh I've got some no
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no because it's a bit embarrassing you
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know like you sort of even even though
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it's sort of you know because you sort
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of think oh but you know you know that
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if you if you said to your wife oh this
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this blood in my in my shirt she's
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probably gonna make you go to the doctor
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immediately right she would have I'm
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sure yeah um but it's just one of those
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really you know it's hard to explain
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yeah it's sort of it's there it feels
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you know it's sort of not you know a
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great uh dinner table discussion
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um so um you know you um you just keep
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it to us yeah and you sort of go and I'm
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sure it'll sort itself out and um you
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know and so it didn't and then so I sort
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of started the process you can Google it
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on your phone or anything like you if
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you Google like your blood and stall on
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on your phone the results are never
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going to be good no and and I didn't um
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again probably because in a little bit
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of denial sort of thinking well it's
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probably just yeah it'll be nothing
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it'll go away and then we're back to
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normal but um
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you know the the where I became a Google
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doctor was sort of a little bit you know
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further down the track after
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you know I'd sort of been through the
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process of um seeing the gastronomical
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doctor the colonoscopy and everything
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after else after that
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this um there's parallels between um
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your story and Lance Armstrong the the
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cyclist like he yeah hopefully not quite
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too many parallels but yeah early on
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here so he um famously had artisticular
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cancer and if you read his book he talks
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about his like testicles like swelling
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to the size of grapefruits and he's just
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constantly used to being in pain from
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being on the saddle six to seven hours a
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day so just ignored it and kept on
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riding through
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um similarities there I wonder if it's
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like a high performance sort of thing
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where you guys are just used to
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um yeah
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for me again there was there was no
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negative sort of impacts of of you know
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what I was dealing with so it wasn't
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like um
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you know I felt unwell needed to go and
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get checked out or anything it was just
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purely like uh you know just almost like
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a
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um a side effects sort of thing it was a
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sort of in the background and uh
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but yeah just didn't didn't really think
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too much of it so so you get on the um
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the medical treadmill you're going to
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see a doctor you have that initial
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conversation
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um when when does it become apparent
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that things are bad
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um well the the high in some ways the
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frustrating thing was that you know the
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the doctors are incredibly upbeat the
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whole way through and I know you'll be
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fine this is just um you know so the
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gastronomical doctor said it's probably
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uh probably just hemorrhoids um and you
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yeah you go away so you're thinking oh
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great you know but he go out of
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precaution will get you in for a
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colonoscopy and that was going to be
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three months down the track
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um so you know clearly there was no
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urgency on his side and
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um
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uh so then I went back and saw the
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Doctor Who was sort of aligned with the
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American magic team he said no it's not
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not okay we want we want to push us
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through so with his contacts you know I
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was in getting a colonoscopy the
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following week
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and um so you're in the uh
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um what does what does that involve by
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the way so the the colonoscopy it's sort
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of you know like everyone thinks of it
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and probably in the worst worst way you
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know basically they're putting a tube
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you know uh up through into your colon
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just to sort of like look at the colon
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lining and you know around the bow just
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to see
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uh well typically you know if they they
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see the the form the start of um
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potential sort of tumors whatever they
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call them polyps yeah
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um and during the colonoscopy normally
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they would um they'd remove those while
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they're while they're there you know so
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it's very
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um you basically uh have a laxative for
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a day or so before the
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um the process just to clean you out
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yeah clear you out and then you
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basically
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um you know they put you under for
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probably 45 minutes maybe an hour you
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know like tops um and you're sort of
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done and dusted and and so you know you
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wake up in the recovery room and
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the um you know the the doctor will
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normally you know
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just tell you then and there what you
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know what the state of play was and and
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so um yeah so when I got my one um
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yeah you know sort of the going into it
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the guy said I know you'll be fine you
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know nothing to worry about I wake up
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and he said oh look unfortunately we
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found a tumor
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um he sort of like talks about where it
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is in the colon and and you know shows
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you a few little of the images that they
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they take when they uh they're doing it
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so you know that was kind of a quite a
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big shock but yeah what's that moment
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like the room starts spinning what were
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you well you're still sedated a bit you
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know so you're probably drowsing you're
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not thinking that clearly but where it
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really I think became quite emotional or
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where it really sort of um it's sunk in
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was
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um
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the doctor then said look I think it'd
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be really good because you know normally
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if you've got bowel cancer if it's going
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to move to other parts of the body it's
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normally the liver and lungs you know
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that's with um bowel cancer and
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so they they wanted to do a CT scan
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which um so they put a contrast in
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um and then they they basically just
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check your organs just to see whether
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there's any other areas in your and
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you're sitting there thinking wow you
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know so I've got a tumor
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um more than likely it is a uh it is a
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you know a cancerous tumor and uh and
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then straight away it's like yeah where
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else in the body is it um or you know
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has it has it actually uh moved anywhere
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else and so the relief of wind I got the
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call from the uh the doctor saying look
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you know the CT scans have been uh been
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checked and looks like you know all your
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organs are clear so you know that was
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like a huge a huge relief huge relief
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you know still you know obviously got
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this tumor but it's um but at least it
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hasn't sort of it's been ring fenced
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yeah yeah and so that was kind of a
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the first time you know you really you
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know did feel quite emotional about it
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and
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um so what sort of period of time is
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this happening over so you get told you
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got tumors it's probably cancerous we've
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got to check these other organs within a
00:11:07
week okay all in a week you know being
00:11:10
told by the gastronomical doctor that um
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that it was probably just hemorrhoids so
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you know like you've gone from there to
00:11:16
there so now now they're sitting there
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with this chamber um
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I think it was about a week later again
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the the doctor was just phenomenal and
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so he found this um surgeon up in uh
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Birmingham Alabama which is probably not
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a place too many people have been to but
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um so we're up there for Thanksgiving
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weekend
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um so my daughter who was boarding uh up
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in Massachusetts had a school there she
00:11:42
was down for the Thanksgiving break so
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you know we break the news to them that
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we're going on a family holiday to
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Birmingham Alabama
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um
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you know at that stage we we just didn't
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we didn't have it in us to really tell
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the kids that are you know that that I
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had a cancer so you you and Mandy made
00:12:01
the decision to keep it from them yeah
00:12:02
we said that I was having a um having a
00:12:05
like a small surgery right but just
00:12:07
because you know the problem is you know
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everyone thinks of cancer as a you know
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it's a death sentence and it and it
00:12:13
doesn't need to be you know like um
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obviously there's some some worse than
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others in that respect but um but you
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know fortunately with bowel cancer it is
00:12:21
it is curable if it's if it's dealt with
00:12:23
early enough so we needed more
00:12:24
information before we you know really
00:12:26
wanted to to go you know into the detail
00:12:28
with them
00:12:29
um so we went up there uh you're
00:12:32
basically in hospital for four days
00:12:33
while they you know they remove the um
00:12:36
the chuma and you know let the colon
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repair enough and then now we're back
00:12:40
down to Pensacola
00:12:41
um
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so the surgeon was great you know he he
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basically did it with like robotic
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robotic surgery which is
00:12:49
um you know allows even faster sort of
00:12:52
repair time
00:12:53
um and uh and so yeah we
00:12:57
um so after the operation he basically
00:13:00
said look we're going to uh sort of
00:13:02
taken the tumor out all went really well
00:13:04
we've taken 24 lymph nodes around the
00:13:07
site just to see whether there's any
00:13:10
um anything there just more out of
00:13:12
precaution than anything but yeah
00:13:14
you won't you won't need anything
00:13:16
further until you sort of thing else is
00:13:18
God you know we've sort of done the hard
00:13:20
work now and you know get through the
00:13:22
recovery and be be fine but
00:13:24
unfortunately you the weight for
00:13:27
um the biopsy on the lymph nodes was
00:13:29
about a week so you know you're just
00:13:30
sitting there just hanging in limbo
00:13:32
hanging yeah and it was really that was
00:13:35
quite tough and um what were you doing
00:13:37
that were you were you distant recovery
00:13:39
you know like you're still because you
00:13:41
know it's quite you know it's quite a
00:13:42
decent sort of surgery you know they you
00:13:44
know you're not really that mobile for a
00:13:46
few days
00:13:48
um yeah you're slowly building back up
00:13:49
next and doing a bit of walking and
00:13:51
things but
00:13:53
um so yeah we're out walking the dog and
00:13:55
uh Mandy and I and then um you'll get
00:13:57
the phone call just say look uh
00:13:58
unfortunately you know the six of the
00:14:00
lymph nodes have um got uh cancer uh
00:14:04
signs of cancer and so you're going to
00:14:06
need to
00:14:07
uh most likely to go and do do the chemo
00:14:09
so you know now you're in yeah you're
00:14:11
going to see the oncologist and um sort
00:14:14
of all of that that kind of thing from
00:14:16
there and so
00:14:17
you know Thanksgiving is end of November
00:14:21
um there was an opportunity to try and
00:14:22
start the chemo by sort of mid to late
00:14:25
December
00:14:26
um
00:14:27
and with the uh with the the type of
00:14:29
chemo that I had they in the U.S
00:14:32
particularly they were really Keen to do
00:14:34
um to do via report so they they put
00:14:37
like a um like a little tap yeah so it
00:14:40
sort of just sits below the skin so they
00:14:41
they put it in there it's sort of like a
00:14:43
rubber membrane where they just sort of
00:14:45
then I um like an IV into into that
00:14:49
membrane and tape it in place and so
00:14:51
with the
00:14:52
I had um had to go and it was like 12
00:14:55
rounds of chemo
00:14:57
um every two weeks so you got going on a
00:14:59
Monday and you'd go in the infusion
00:15:00
suite and they'd um
00:15:04
uh you you sit there for like six or
00:15:06
seven hours just you know they put in
00:15:08
you know steroids and anti-nausea meds
00:15:10
and things and then they'd start the
00:15:11
chemo and then they'd give you a pump
00:15:14
which is like a man bag you'd take with
00:15:15
you and you'd have that with you for two
00:15:17
days and there was just like a slow
00:15:19
release of chemo
00:15:21
go back and on the Wednesday they'd take
00:15:22
it out then you had 10 days to sort of
00:15:24
um recover before the next um you know
00:15:27
the next round and
00:15:29
yeah so that was uh yeah how did you
00:15:31
find the chemo experience I've had
00:15:33
um uh die Henwood on the podcast who's
00:15:35
um yeah you know he's got stage four
00:15:37
cancer at the moment and he talked about
00:15:39
um just how misleading the perception
00:15:41
with chemo can be because people see
00:15:42
movies and they see someone that's bald
00:15:45
and throwing up and he said the reality
00:15:47
fan was quite different like uh he was
00:15:49
doing seven days in some other shows
00:15:50
like that with um a chemo bag hanging
00:15:52
off them how was your experience
00:15:54
um it was an interesting one it's I
00:15:56
found it very sort of a cumulative
00:15:58
effect
00:16:00
um the first one or two were um
00:16:03
were remarkably sort of uh okay
00:16:06
um
00:16:08
you know the I think every chemo every
00:16:11
treatment you know is is different the
00:16:12
cocktail and things and so you know some
00:16:15
people you know like fly through it
00:16:16
other people definitely uh battle and
00:16:19
um my experience with it was um
00:16:22
you know it was a challenge mentally I
00:16:24
think mentally more than anything it was
00:16:25
it was very challenging because you just
00:16:27
constantly feeling
00:16:29
um you know feeling shut you know you
00:16:32
the chemo would sort of kick in
00:16:34
um by you know so the the pump would be
00:16:37
out by the Wednesday normally the
00:16:38
Wednesday Thursday would just you know
00:16:40
the worst days and
00:16:43
um I was trying to carry on with the uh
00:16:45
the training with the team so uh go and
00:16:47
do the sailing and things I'd sort of
00:16:49
there was always that goal to be back
00:16:50
sailing with them by the Saturday or the
00:16:51
Sunday
00:16:52
um and to to have that sort of
00:16:55
I guess so motivation was really good
00:16:57
because it sort of a took your focus off
00:16:59
you know what was going on you know
00:17:01
because it'd be very easy just to sit
00:17:02
there feeling sorry for yourself I think
00:17:04
definitely been able to get out there
00:17:06
and sort of uh really sort of just keep
00:17:08
pushing on with different things was a
00:17:10
was a really
00:17:11
um motivating thing really motivating
00:17:13
yeah because you know you're there
00:17:15
you're doing the chemo you know you know
00:17:18
you're doing it to try and kill anything
00:17:20
that's left in your body so to be able
00:17:21
to fight it and actually be motivated to
00:17:23
to do that as opposed to sort of sitting
00:17:25
there thinking about dying it's like you
00:17:27
know it's quite a different
00:17:30
um Prospect because you know you've
00:17:31
really got you know chemo in different
00:17:33
ways it might be they're just purely to
00:17:35
extend someone's life or or might you
00:17:38
know case and you know everyone else
00:17:39
that in that same position where they've
00:17:41
got the ability to sort of keep fighting
00:17:43
at the end you know you're um you're
00:17:45
probably going with quite a different
00:17:47
attitude to it were there moments where
00:17:49
you were thinking that this is it this
00:17:51
is a matter of life and death
00:17:54
um not really because you know like I
00:17:56
think
00:17:57
because the doctors have been very
00:17:59
upbeat about it all and had been you
00:18:01
know
00:18:02
you know very clear that it was uh this
00:18:06
was a
00:18:07
um
00:18:08
you know preventative more than anything
00:18:10
you know the the main cancer had been
00:18:13
removed with the tumor yes it was in the
00:18:15
lymph the chemo should be able to kill
00:18:19
anything that was was left in the body
00:18:21
and and so you
00:18:23
I think the attitude for me was much
00:18:25
more of look you know you've got the
00:18:26
opportunity to fight it enough you know
00:18:28
while you've got that chance you you
00:18:29
really want to and yeah
00:18:31
but yeah God it changes your uh your
00:18:34
perspective very very quickly on on life
00:18:36
because you know
00:18:37
before then you sort of think your you
00:18:38
know you're bulletproof and you know
00:18:41
um you're fat healthy you know like you
00:18:43
touched on before the Google Doctor type
00:18:45
thing you um and you start looking at
00:18:49
um who's likely to get bowel cancer it's
00:18:51
you know it's normally elderly
00:18:53
overweight
00:18:55
um smoking drinking you know like all
00:18:57
the boxes that you just don't take
00:19:00
um
00:19:00
and so then you you start questioning
00:19:03
why you know why
00:19:04
why me you know why what have what have
00:19:07
you done wrong in in life to to sort of
00:19:10
to have that you know um
00:19:13
and I really think a big part of it you
00:19:14
know it's the only thing I can think of
00:19:16
is it can only be stress you know like
00:19:18
there's just
00:19:19
it
00:19:20
you just can't you know you can't
00:19:22
rationalize it with any other thing you
00:19:24
know so that was kind of where I got to
00:19:26
my head yeah
00:19:28
um she's with lots of Tears over that
00:19:30
time
00:19:35
you're real private so you may not even
00:19:37
want to go there but I'm like I'm I'm
00:19:39
just imagining
00:19:41
myself if I was in your shoes and like
00:19:43
going home from the doctor and you know
00:19:44
telling my partner the bad news like I
00:19:46
just crumble like a like a [ __ ] mess
00:19:49
yeah
00:19:51
um there's death there was definitely
00:19:52
times you know where it was very
00:19:54
emotional
00:19:55
um
00:19:56
I think you know one one of the worst
00:19:59
was or probably the type that was almost
00:20:01
the relief was when I got the result of
00:20:03
that first CT scan um because
00:20:06
you're just dealing with all of this
00:20:08
information and not really sure
00:20:11
um
00:20:12
where it probably was going to uh going
00:20:15
to end up so that was probably the first
00:20:18
time
00:20:19
um certainly well it was quite emotional
00:20:22
finding out that you know you would that
00:20:24
you hadn't sort of finished the journey
00:20:25
again I was going to have to go through
00:20:26
the chemo so that was another time
00:20:29
the the last time I went back in uh to
00:20:33
get the the pump removed after I
00:20:36
finished the six months of chemo that
00:20:38
was
00:20:39
you know that was you get to ring ring
00:20:41
this Bell
00:20:42
um in in the infusion you know suite and
00:20:45
you know like I don't know it's just it
00:20:48
was
00:20:49
just sort of like you know thank God
00:20:51
that's over you know like it was just
00:20:52
one of those things where
00:20:55
you know you do it you you want to fight
00:20:57
it you know but we're it's wearing you
00:20:59
down and just in the end you know like
00:21:00
to to get through it it's just you know
00:21:02
it was a huge um yeah it was a huge
00:21:04
relief so you know but it's just there's
00:21:06
different you know it's just different
00:21:07
times where you you do feel quite
00:21:08
emotionally uh drained you know with it
00:21:10
all yeah thanks for sharing that really
00:21:12
appreciate it was was Mandy Furious when
00:21:15
when when she realized you'd had blood
00:21:17
in your store for all this time and you
00:21:18
hadn't told it
00:21:19
was she mad well I hadn't you know
00:21:22
because I was still probably almost a
00:21:23
little bit ashamed or embarrassed you
00:21:24
know not for whatever reason I
00:21:26
um I hadn't even told her when I'd been
00:21:29
to the gastronomical doctor you know to
00:21:30
go and see see him originally and and
00:21:33
then you know because he he wasn't
00:21:34
concerned I hadn't actually said
00:21:36
anything and it wasn't until the the
00:21:37
doctor said look I'm going to push the
00:21:40
um the colonoscopy boards
00:21:43
um she was she was just flying back up
00:21:45
to um Newport because we were had to
00:21:48
relocate all our furniture and stuff out
00:21:50
of our house and um so she was actually
00:21:53
back up there so she wasn't even around
00:21:55
when um
00:21:57
uh when I did the colonoscopy and so
00:22:00
coming out of there you know it was a
00:22:02
huge I guess shock and it'll be a
00:22:04
reality check for for both of us so um
00:22:08
yeah but yeah she was she wasn't happy
00:22:10
because I've told her too much about her
00:22:12
but it was um I feel it was just what
00:22:14
what you that's it this is what I expect
00:22:16
Dean but like all I know about you is
00:22:18
what we see on TV on usually in boat
00:22:20
races and you seem like a just a like a
00:22:22
strong stoic guy and to hear that you're
00:22:24
like that at home as well
00:22:26
um I feel like it's gonna but you're
00:22:27
still young and there's still so much
00:22:29
Life to Live do you feel like it's gonna
00:22:30
Gonna Change you as a person moving
00:22:32
forward like you will be more open and
00:22:33
more vulnerable and
00:22:35
um yeah I think uh well there's a number
00:22:38
of things that you know that have
00:22:39
changed probably you know like you
00:22:41
definitely have a very difficult
00:22:42
different outlook on life you you know
00:22:45
that you need you know you you want to
00:22:47
enjoy life while you can you know
00:22:48
because you just don't know what's
00:22:49
around the corner and I think it's
00:22:50
probably that's been probably the
00:22:52
biggest uh reality check is that you
00:22:55
know we've got um we've got four kids
00:22:57
you know and they're all different
00:22:58
stages of you know what they're doing
00:22:59
and you want to be around for them and
00:23:02
um
00:23:03
yeah there's just so many different
00:23:04
things where it just sort of makes you
00:23:06
take a step back and you know make makes
00:23:09
you probably rethink
00:23:11
um you know life in general and it's you
00:23:13
know I know it's yeah it all sounds a
00:23:16
bit silly but at the same time you know
00:23:18
because you you get a bit of a
00:23:20
a wake-up call
00:23:22
um you definitely start approaching
00:23:24
things very differently on what you do
00:23:25
every day
00:23:27
yeah yeah I can I can imagine so um so
00:23:30
you're sitting here now it's um
00:23:32
belkinson New Zealand month June 2023
00:23:35
how are you feeling now you're all clear
00:23:36
physically you're 100
00:23:39
yeah well I have um
00:23:41
I've got a I have a six monthly checkup
00:23:44
so with a surgeon
00:23:46
um so I go and see him you know after uh
00:23:49
so end of 21 I had to get a like it was
00:23:53
a
00:23:55
um hit a small chamber on my lung which
00:23:57
had to get removed and that was you know
00:23:59
fortunately you know not that was it was
00:24:01
a good thing but fortunately it was the
00:24:02
same cancer as from the bowel so that it
00:24:04
had actually
00:24:06
had moved around the body so even though
00:24:08
the chemo had probably tried to to get
00:24:11
it it hadn't so but
00:24:14
um but you know in terms of the scans
00:24:15
and things every you know since they've
00:24:17
all been clear
00:24:19
um you know my my scans you know I do
00:24:21
them yearly so yearly colonoscopy yearly
00:24:23
CT
00:24:25
um they typically full Joe around sort
00:24:27
of September October around that time of
00:24:29
year so it's always quite a
00:24:31
a teen's time because you just even
00:24:33
though you feel good and you feel like
00:24:35
you're doing everything as you should
00:24:36
you never really know but
00:24:39
the good thing is early diagnosis you
00:24:42
know still gives you another you know
00:24:43
another opportunity to fight it but
00:24:46
but yeah I feel I feel really um really
00:24:48
good uh
00:24:51
you probably don't train quite as hard
00:24:53
as I used to but um and and that's
00:24:56
probably more just not being involved in
00:24:58
the the teams in the same time racing
00:25:00
yeah yeah you know which was would you
00:25:02
know just really drove that discipline
00:25:04
so having a motivation like can move
00:25:07
your butt month is um is actually quite
00:25:08
a good thing you know just to you know
00:25:10
encourage us you know uh encourages me
00:25:13
to sort of um get more active again
00:25:15
because it is easy to sort of to not
00:25:18
um so yeah
00:25:20
um well this is probably like a good a
00:25:22
good time to you know compartmentalize
00:25:24
this and move on to some other stuff but
00:25:25
yeah what's the key messaging I know um
00:25:27
there's some shocking stats like three
00:25:29
people die every day in New Zealand from
00:25:30
bowel cancer
00:25:31
um but what do we need to be looking out
00:25:33
for for early detection well you know
00:25:35
this the the main symptoms you know I
00:25:37
think um you know change in bowel habits
00:25:39
is a you know is quite a big one you
00:25:40
know obviously blood in the stool
00:25:42
they'll have it sometimes like frequency
00:25:44
or yeah yeah like um you know like if
00:25:46
you if you really notice a big change
00:25:48
and you know just I guess what you know
00:25:50
your normal sort of um bowel habits you
00:25:52
know like it's just you know it's
00:25:54
normally it's just again it's just your
00:25:55
body trying to tell you something and um
00:25:58
you know my experience was obviously the
00:26:00
blood
00:26:01
um and so
00:26:02
um you know you you hear people that
00:26:05
ignore it like like I did um and you
00:26:07
know obviously that's not a not a great
00:26:09
thing so again you know it's the you
00:26:11
know making sure that if if you if you
00:26:14
do have you know that sort of thing
00:26:15
going on then you you do go and get it
00:26:17
checked out um yeah there's there's
00:26:20
other symptoms you know where
00:26:22
um you know discomfort in the abdomen
00:26:24
you know there's just other other areas
00:26:26
and things but
00:26:29
I think that that's that's probably the
00:26:31
key message of anything is like if you
00:26:33
if you don't feel
00:26:35
right for whatever reason then you know
00:26:36
and if it's persisting you know you
00:26:38
definitely want to go and get checked
00:26:39
because it
00:26:40
yeah the body is you know it's probably
00:26:42
your uh your best um
00:26:44
you know best gauge of uh what's going
00:26:46
on oh 100 and well thanks for being so
00:26:48
open and honest about that stuff like
00:26:49
you yeah I mean there's a there's a
00:26:52
Cheesy saying that people say that if it
00:26:53
helps one person then it's been
00:26:55
worthwhile but I think what you were
00:26:56
doing by being involved with this
00:26:58
campaign especially knowing how private
00:26:59
you are
00:27:01
um I think it could save a lot of lives
00:27:04
um well you know the motivation was as
00:27:06
you say you know like to to try and you
00:27:08
know like
00:27:09
um help raise awareness around Bell
00:27:11
cancer because it's
00:27:13
you know again I I you know the the one
00:27:15
thing for me which was really you know
00:27:17
it's probably the key message that I got
00:27:18
out of it is as Bell cancer is curable
00:27:21
um it is treatable if you get onto it
00:27:23
early and
00:27:25
um so you know like
00:27:28
it's not a it's not you know there's no
00:27:30
no none of these diseases are a pleasant
00:27:33
bowel cancer certainly not a sexy
00:27:35
Disease by any means um you know and but
00:27:39
um yeah it's like not being afraid to
00:27:42
sort of put your hand up and ask for
00:27:44
help because it's um you know I think
00:27:45
being able to talk to your partner or
00:27:47
whatever like you know it wasn't
00:27:48
something that I I did a good job of but
00:27:50
I think just to be able to I guess
00:27:52
yeah
00:27:53
talk about it and um and then you know
00:27:55
hopefully that leads to a good outcome
00:27:57
yeah 100 well I'm glad you're I'm glad
00:27:59
you're okay now yeah nothing it's really
00:28:01
cool
00:28:02
um you're the same age as me you 1050
00:28:05
recently right yeah yeah yeah yeah so I
00:28:08
was thinking about you over over the
00:28:09
weekend so um your dad is Ray Barker who
00:28:12
started like Barker's men's clothing
00:28:13
when I'm trying to remember when that
00:28:16
came about was it during your teenage
00:28:17
years when does barcus begin
00:28:20
um so uh dad started barkers uh back in
00:28:23
1972. oh [ __ ] yeah so like the year
00:28:26
before you were born yeah yeah yeah so
00:28:28
um so
00:28:30
um he'd always had a
00:28:32
um
00:28:33
you know like a real sort of
00:28:35
I don't know focus on on men's fashion
00:28:37
even back in those days and you know
00:28:39
they they had a you know fantastic sort
00:28:41
of um
00:28:43
you know introduction he and another guy
00:28:46
Jeff parsonsson you know they sort of
00:28:47
teamed up in the early days and they uh
00:28:49
basically built it up from nothing I
00:28:51
think it started off as Raymond's uh or
00:28:53
collars and cuffs and Raymond's
00:28:55
um
00:28:56
and then yeah then became barkers male
00:28:59
Boutique and then
00:29:00
and then but came back as so it's um
00:29:05
yeah it was quite it was really
00:29:07
interesting you know just to see it all
00:29:09
grow and you know uh
00:29:11
over the years you know like I never
00:29:13
really had a strong
00:29:15
um affiliation with with fashion it
00:29:16
wasn't really a a big big sort of focus
00:29:20
you know like I was obviously really you
00:29:23
know really proud of what he uh what he
00:29:24
did with it all but you know I probably
00:29:27
didn't have that same sort of uh DNA you
00:29:29
know like in terms of uh really
00:29:30
following the fashion brand and um
00:29:33
but yeah it's sort of grow and grow and
00:29:35
you know I think when it was probably in
00:29:38
my my opinion it's absolute sort of best
00:29:40
was you know like back in the days where
00:29:41
you know every uni student was wearing a
00:29:43
pair of darkest trackies oh I was going
00:29:45
to bring that up so this is when again
00:29:46
we're the same age so when you were
00:29:48
maybe 16 17 18 19 I I was going to ask
00:29:51
if this was like a regional thing
00:29:52
because I was in Palmerston North you
00:29:53
know Messi university everybody was
00:29:56
wearing like gray back as track pants
00:29:59
they were like the must-have must-have
00:30:01
item in every person's wardrobe oh yeah
00:30:03
they're awesome you know like
00:30:04
um you know completely impractical these
00:30:06
days but uh you know like um but yeah
00:30:09
you know my wardrobe I had the short
00:30:11
version of it you just you know it was
00:30:14
that was great but um
00:30:17
um yeah but it was one of those things
00:30:19
where it just it was at one point in
00:30:21
time it was just such a uh yeah a trendy
00:30:23
thing you know to for all all the
00:30:25
students around New Zealand so no it was
00:30:27
really cool oh they were amazing so
00:30:28
where did the sailing start sailing
00:30:30
seems like the most impractical sport to
00:30:32
do like it's not running you put shoes
00:30:34
on you're out the door
00:30:36
um soccer Cricket rugby you go to
00:30:38
practice at school yachting seems like a
00:30:40
lot of admin is it a yachting family
00:30:42
my dad did a little bit of sailing when
00:30:44
he was young he was sort of more Cricket
00:30:45
rugby
00:30:47
um at school and through the clubs and
00:30:49
things and he did a little bit of
00:30:51
sailing
00:30:52
um but it certainly wasn't his main main
00:30:54
sport
00:30:55
when I was 10 you know uh was really
00:30:58
given the choice you know parents wanted
00:31:00
me to do something so it was either
00:31:01
Sunday school or uh or or something like
00:31:04
church so yeah so it was um so it was
00:31:06
best to uh go go down to the local Yacht
00:31:08
Club
00:31:10
so yeah we went down there and you know
00:31:12
like he at first I didn't really love it
00:31:15
um
00:31:15
but you know very quickly it sort of
00:31:18
said to grow and what do you mean you
00:31:20
didn't love it I had a couple of bad
00:31:22
experiences you know you sort of because
00:31:23
it's very it's a weird sensation when
00:31:26
you first get into it um you feel like
00:31:29
incredibly isolated you're in a little
00:31:31
boat on your own yeah obviously there's
00:31:34
other there's other boats around and you
00:31:35
know support you know coach boats and
00:31:37
things but but you're um yeah you're
00:31:39
sort of out there and
00:31:41
you know it's quite a it's quite a weird
00:31:43
sensation you know that you're sort of
00:31:44
responsible for this little boat and
00:31:46
trying to figure out what the hell's
00:31:47
going on with the wind and you know
00:31:48
getting wet in the head with a boom and
00:31:50
you know it's just um
00:31:52
um and for some people just you know
00:31:54
like a natural fear of feral water like
00:31:56
some people just don't feel comfortable
00:31:58
being away from the shore or you know
00:32:00
being in deep water and so uh yeah
00:32:04
um but I had a couple of bad experiences
00:32:05
it's got stuck you know I got stuck in
00:32:06
the middle of a late poo Pocky at one
00:32:07
stage you know where it was just
00:32:09
couldn't couldn't turn the boat around
00:32:10
and get back to Shore and start
00:32:12
panicking now what could go wrong there
00:32:14
but it's um
00:32:16
uh but yeah over time you know and just
00:32:20
sort of a little bit of um perseverance
00:32:21
and things you know just sort of got a
00:32:24
um
00:32:24
got the confidence back and really just
00:32:27
sort of um built from there on and
00:32:28
started off just sort of been you know
00:32:30
fun going hanging out down at Murray's
00:32:32
Bay with uh with all of the you know the
00:32:34
other kids and things build out these
00:32:36
friendships
00:32:37
um you know once you've sort of mastered
00:32:39
all this sort of the the learn to sell
00:32:41
type
00:32:42
training then you you were able to go
00:32:44
and start doing a bit of racing and even
00:32:47
though you know to begin with it wasn't
00:32:49
sort of incredibly successful it was
00:32:51
still great to participate and be part
00:32:53
of it and um yeah sort of quickly grown
00:32:55
to something that I was getting more and
00:32:56
more passionate about so not not much
00:32:59
natural Talent just a lot of hard work
00:33:00
it was yeah I'd say a lot of hard work
00:33:02
yeah it was um and I was quite Young
00:33:07
versus the generation of the kids that I
00:33:09
came through with
00:33:11
um so I was sort of always on the the
00:33:12
younger end of it so always you know for
00:33:16
a long time just sort of always trying
00:33:18
to catch up to the the level of these um
00:33:20
the kids who are sort of probably one
00:33:22
two three years older than I was and uh
00:33:25
but I think in the end that was a huge
00:33:27
benefit because you were sort of always
00:33:29
trying to put yourself against these
00:33:31
kids so you know that I you know when
00:33:33
you're sort of going particularly
00:33:34
through that sort of 12 to 16 17 years
00:33:37
of age sort of um period two or three
00:33:40
years of uh of age is a huge amount of
00:33:42
maturity and and so
00:33:45
um it was it was great to be able to
00:33:47
you know sort of always be challenged to
00:33:49
to be at the same level as as these
00:33:51
other competitors that I've signed in
00:33:52
against and you know they end up being
00:33:54
great friends but also you know really
00:33:56
strong competitors and so you know as a
00:33:59
club Murray's based Sailing Club was it
00:34:01
was incredibly strong and
00:34:03
uh it was generation after generation of
00:34:05
really good Sailors that sort of came
00:34:07
through you know the you know Ray Davies
00:34:09
was sort of uh there was a year year
00:34:11
ahead of me another guy Hamish pepper
00:34:13
there's another guy Jeff senior you know
00:34:15
either being part of Team New Zealand or
00:34:18
you know heavily involved in other
00:34:19
sailing
00:34:21
um around the place and you know we were
00:34:23
very fortunate to have you know guys
00:34:24
like Russell uh coats come and do some
00:34:26
coaching at the club and you know a lot
00:34:28
of other
00:34:29
really strong
00:34:30
um
00:34:31
people as well so you know we were
00:34:33
immersed with you know like when you
00:34:34
look back now with you know some
00:34:35
fantastic Talent there but also you know
00:34:38
some very strong uh coaching support
00:34:40
yeah so when when did you first meet
00:34:41
Russell coats because he he sort of
00:34:44
shoulder tapped you and and got you into
00:34:45
Team New Zealand when you're in the
00:34:46
early 20s right yeah but did he first
00:34:49
see you as like a teen or
00:34:51
um yeah so oh and the young you know so
00:34:54
young guys probably when I was 12 13 he
00:34:55
was he came to Murray's Bay a couple of
00:34:57
times coaching right so could he see
00:34:58
something in you then or no no were you
00:35:00
just like another probably just another
00:35:01
kid but but it was what was interesting
00:35:03
though so Dad um so through barkers they
00:35:06
they sponsored Russell and his 84 um
00:35:08
Olympic campaign when he when he won his
00:35:10
gold medal in in LA and he came around
00:35:14
after he got back you know he had the
00:35:16
middle you know came around home and it
00:35:17
was it was pretty cool you know and you
00:35:19
sort of
00:35:20
um
00:35:21
yeah he was sort of like an idol at that
00:35:23
stage he was young and you know
00:35:24
obviously incredibly motivated and
00:35:26
obviously very talented
00:35:28
um
00:35:29
yeah and so then you know he was doing
00:35:31
some coaching at um down at Murray's Bay
00:35:33
from time to time and
00:35:35
uh yeah I still remember you know he was
00:35:38
just like just you know forcing us out
00:35:40
there in strong wins and you know
00:35:41
everything else and everyone out looking
00:35:43
around going geez you sure about this
00:35:45
but you know you could just sort of see
00:35:46
just that that attitude towards it was
00:35:48
really uh probably
00:35:50
you know just that focus on being you
00:35:52
know being successful yeah so so how did
00:35:54
that go about that he got you into when
00:35:56
did when did you first like join Team
00:35:57
New Zealand so myself and Hamish pepper
00:36:01
so we were both you know competing
00:36:02
against each other and lasers and things
00:36:03
so in 90
00:36:05
3 we both got asked to join and do a bit
00:36:08
of uh sailing with the team uh here in
00:36:12
New Zealand so they had two boats so
00:36:13
they were basically they were
00:36:16
you know with Peter Blake I'd form this
00:36:19
new uh outfit
00:36:21
um Team New Zealand so I was sort of it
00:36:23
morphed on from the 92 campaign
00:36:26
um
00:36:26
and
00:36:28
yeah so we did some sailing uh really
00:36:32
enjoyed you know all the racing and
00:36:33
things we're doing on the boats
00:36:35
um got asked to go and sail on the B
00:36:37
boat and be involved um in San Diego but
00:36:40
I was at that stage I was still uh you
00:36:43
know content with sticking with my own
00:36:45
sailing you know doing the different
00:36:47
Olympics sort of type boats and things
00:36:49
and uh yes I didn't end up going going
00:36:53
to San Diego but you know it was
00:36:55
obviously fantastic to see you know Team
00:36:57
New Zealand go up there and
00:36:58
and be successful win the win the cup
00:37:00
for the first time bring it back to New
00:37:02
Zealand and then um
00:37:04
got involved with the team again in 96
00:37:07
yeah when they uh when they came back
00:37:11
um
00:37:12
yeah so it's a 96 and then um
00:37:16
so 96 was that here in New Zealand yeah
00:37:19
so the so when I got involved yeah in 96
00:37:21
was it was leading up to the 2000
00:37:23
campaign so yeah so the team was sort of
00:37:26
Base was base back here sort of slowly
00:37:28
ramp the operation back up and then you
00:37:31
know I think by 96 97 I think you know
00:37:34
the team was fully operational uh back
00:37:36
here in New Zealand so so that's is that
00:37:39
the time where uh um Russell cut some
00:37:41
bread Butterworth they uh they left New
00:37:43
Zealand went to a lingy yeah so that was
00:37:46
so that was after the 2000 right okay so
00:37:49
immediately after the cup you know
00:37:51
um yeah well well you know we're all
00:37:54
probably still partying that they
00:37:56
obviously at that stage had you know had
00:37:57
formed an alliance with
00:37:59
um
00:38:00
Ernesto uh better rally who you know
00:38:02
he's obviously synonymous with with the
00:38:04
cut through alangi and
00:38:06
you know through this
00:38:08
um you know obviously winning the cup in
00:38:10
2003 defending it in 07 and then um yeah
00:38:13
now now they're back in the cup again
00:38:16
what 20 years on that was um there was a
00:38:20
disgraceful time I what are your
00:38:22
Recollections of that time obviously it
00:38:24
was good for you because it meant you
00:38:25
got bumped up to be Captain but as a
00:38:27
friend of like Russell Coates and I'm
00:38:29
guessing bread butter with they um you
00:38:31
look back now on the way they were they
00:38:33
were treated it was absolutely
00:38:35
disgraceful right I was yeah no it was
00:38:37
um yeah I think the hard thing was is
00:38:41
that you know I think when Team New
00:38:43
Zealand finished the the Cup in 2000 it
00:38:45
was like a you know it was very hard to
00:38:48
see how another team was ever going to
00:38:50
be able to to topple the the group that
00:38:53
was assembled there was so much
00:38:54
experience there was so much skill
00:38:58
um you know it
00:38:59
and you know personally for me it was
00:39:02
like you know hard to imagine how anyone
00:39:04
would ever want to leave
00:39:07
and so when it all started you know to
00:39:09
unravel and all these billionaires
00:39:10
suddenly got them you know they're all
00:39:12
down here they watched the cup they're
00:39:13
on their super yachts and probably all
00:39:15
thought well this is you know something
00:39:16
we should get into this yes this is
00:39:18
probably you know it's pretty cheap and
00:39:20
easy so let's uh let's yeah let's get
00:39:22
amongst it so how much do we have to pay
00:39:23
them on it's nothing yeah exactly and so
00:39:25
you know you know we obviously was
00:39:27
formed there was one World there was um
00:39:31
it's like three or four you know they
00:39:33
sort of billionaire back teams and um
00:39:36
Oracle it was when they they came in
00:39:38
with Larry Ellison
00:39:40
um
00:39:41
and yeah so the quickest way for them to
00:39:43
get up to speed was to to basically buy
00:39:45
the talent and the experience and um
00:39:47
which is I guess normal in any other
00:39:48
sport in the world it's just you know
00:39:50
for sailing and for America's Cup and I
00:39:52
guess passionate kiwis it was hard to
00:39:54
probably rationalize so
00:39:56
um
00:39:57
yeah personally I was really
00:39:59
disappointed just to see the the team
00:40:01
fall apart yes it was a great
00:40:03
opportunity and you know we you know
00:40:05
just sat there thinking well you know
00:40:06
this is going to be um it's going to be
00:40:08
a big job but you know it was incredibly
00:40:10
exciting but you know we were a young
00:40:12
and very inexperienced group that was
00:40:14
left behind you know trying to basically
00:40:16
rebuild carry on so that I guess you
00:40:19
know what the the team had achieved over
00:40:20
the past sort of um five or so years it
00:40:23
was uh yeah it was
00:40:25
it's quite daunting
00:40:26
um so so at the time when you're in Team
00:40:29
New Zealand are you sort of thinking as
00:40:31
well those bastards leaving for them the
00:40:33
big money I couldn't understand you know
00:40:35
look because I was young and just you
00:40:37
know probably didn't really see you know
00:40:39
the bigger picture you know at the time
00:40:40
I was you know I was obviously really
00:40:42
disappointed because it you know working
00:40:44
alongside Russell and Brad that was that
00:40:46
was a fantastic experience all the other
00:40:48
guys that that were in that sort of
00:40:50
group you know that um that bought all
00:40:52
of this you know amazing sort of uh
00:40:54
a pool of talent you know together it
00:40:56
was it was really like it was such an
00:40:58
incredible experience and so to see it
00:41:00
dismantle and and you know disperse to
00:41:03
all these different teams it was it was
00:41:05
really hard to kind of rationalize but
00:41:07
you know coming back to what you said
00:41:08
earlier no it was disgraceful you know
00:41:09
the way they were treated you know they
00:41:12
maybe they didn't you know probably
00:41:14
leave on the best of terms you know and
00:41:17
the way it was done but you know in the
00:41:18
end it's sort of everyone does what they
00:41:21
need to do right and it's um you've got
00:41:22
to look after your family and look after
00:41:23
yourself yeah and so you know it's it's
00:41:26
easy to see it all now and you know I
00:41:28
think it's it's obviously fantastic that
00:41:30
Russell was you know recognized for you
00:41:33
know the service that he did provide you
00:41:34
know to New Zealand when you know by
00:41:36
bringing the cup back and everything
00:41:37
else yeah the time softens a lot of
00:41:39
opinions doesn't it um but to think that
00:41:41
this was like pre-social media as well
00:41:43
but I I just remember the weight of the
00:41:45
backlash at the time it was well you
00:41:47
know
00:41:48
um
00:41:59
um so so then you become you become
00:42:01
captain
00:42:03
so how do you so you're like just late
00:42:05
20s at the time yeah so and so 2000 uh I
00:42:10
was 27
00:42:12
um going on 27 and yeah so the next
00:42:15
couple is 30 you know when um
00:42:17
and no three so that was where we lost
00:42:21
to a lingi 5-0 is um
00:42:24
you're just going back so we're talking
00:42:25
about Russell coats and Brad Butterworth
00:42:27
it feels like
00:42:28
um then with the boats the way they were
00:42:30
maybe it was more about the Sailor than
00:42:32
the boat would they be I don't know
00:42:33
anything about yachting but would that
00:42:34
be a fair thing to say whereas now it
00:42:36
feels like if you've got the fastest
00:42:37
boat you're probably gonna win I
00:42:40
yeah there's no question that they
00:42:41
they're a very strong team yeah we we
00:42:43
raced against
00:42:44
um uh Russell and Brad and Ernesto you
00:42:47
know two or three times on the match
00:42:49
racing circuit leading into uh the
00:42:52
Auckland uh defense in 2003 and you know
00:42:55
I think until they're again as we you
00:42:57
know we beat them and you know it was we
00:42:59
definitely felt like we're on a on a you
00:43:01
know pretty um pretty good sort of uh
00:43:04
position relative to them in terms of
00:43:05
the sailing yeah the America's Cup is a
00:43:07
is a a typical I think almost Bar None
00:43:11
has always ended up being won by the
00:43:12
fastest boat
00:43:14
um
00:43:14
yeah while the boats were very close in
00:43:17
performance you know they they did still
00:43:19
have a small speed Advantage um in 2007
00:43:23
2003 you know they they definitely had a
00:43:26
better boat you know they were faster
00:43:28
they had sort of uh stumbled onto some
00:43:32
you know like a bit of a design
00:43:35
um gain with the whole design which you
00:43:38
know we were still very much in the uh
00:43:39
the same family of boats that that had
00:43:42
one in 92 95 and you know and 2000
00:43:45
whereas 2003 they'd sort of taken quite
00:43:48
a different approach and actually found
00:43:50
a a design which you know gave them you
00:43:53
know a pretty um pretty decent Advantage
00:43:55
across you know a lot of the conditions
00:43:57
how do you handle that so you're you're
00:43:59
30 years old
00:44:01
um you're the captain of Team New
00:44:02
Zealand you got the weight of weight and
00:44:04
expectation of the country on your
00:44:05
shoulder you're taking on these two guys
00:44:07
who've been basically painted as as say
00:44:10
I have villains or enemies and you lose
00:44:13
5-0 like how like how do you get through
00:44:16
that oh it's devastating yeah like it
00:44:18
was you know you
00:44:19
as you say you know you've got the
00:44:20
weight of the nation you know you don't
00:44:22
feel it at the time because you know
00:44:23
you're just going out there doing your
00:44:25
what you think is the best possible job
00:44:27
you can you know and you're a team of
00:44:29
over 100 people you know so there's
00:44:30
everyone's sort of contributing in
00:44:32
different ways
00:44:33
yeah the thing which was was difficult
00:44:35
was that the boat sort of you know
00:44:37
falling apart around us you know during
00:44:38
the series you know broken mass and the
00:44:40
first race when the you know filled up
00:44:42
with water and you know it's just like
00:44:44
a whole lot of things which just weren't
00:44:46
yeah just weren't good enough but at the
00:44:48
same time you know we didn't we didn't
00:44:50
probably sail at our base you know we
00:44:52
there was one race we should have won
00:44:53
which we didn't you know there was just
00:44:54
there was just a whole lot of things
00:44:56
that sort of um yeah that happened and
00:44:59
it was just
00:45:00
if you're going to lose you want to lose
00:45:02
you know I guess in a dignified way you
00:45:05
don't want to you want like a close race
00:45:06
sort of thing yeah and um you know to to
00:45:09
lose like we did it just wasn't a fair
00:45:11
reflection of I guess the quality of the
00:45:14
people within the team now
00:45:17
unfortunately in the America's Cup only
00:45:19
one team has ever perceived as being
00:45:21
good and the rest are sure you know
00:45:23
because they don't win but the reality
00:45:25
is some teams you know like
00:45:27
Kenny it should be really good teams but
00:45:29
just just don't quite get it right you
00:45:31
know there might be one or two
00:45:32
ingredients that just don't sort of um
00:45:34
play through and and so
00:45:36
you know are you a failure well no you
00:45:39
know there's a lot of good that comes
00:45:40
out of some of these campaigns but only
00:45:42
one team can get it right you look at
00:45:44
Formula One or some of these other you
00:45:46
know things where
00:45:47
you know Mercedes for dominant for
00:45:49
however many years and now you know Red
00:45:51
Bull and no one can touch them and
00:45:52
that's just purely because they've just
00:45:54
done a few things better than others you
00:45:55
know it's not like the teams are
00:45:56
suddenly yeah you know no good it's just
00:45:59
that one team's just sort of managed to
00:46:00
to focus their energies in the right
00:46:02
area yeah I mean I'm sure you can look
00:46:04
back now as a as a 50 year old man that
00:46:06
has survived [ __ ] cancer and take
00:46:08
this for what it is which is just like a
00:46:10
you know like a blip in the rear view
00:46:12
mirror but at the time it must have been
00:46:13
all concerning like how like how do you
00:46:15
get how do you get through that like
00:46:16
yeah where does that sort of resilience
00:46:18
come from to get through something as
00:46:19
disappointing as that
00:46:21
um
00:46:22
it was hard like I think the one thing
00:46:24
that you never prepare yourself for is
00:46:26
the um the
00:46:28
the focus and attention and how brutal
00:46:31
um
00:46:32
I guess a lot of the
00:46:34
the backlash the media the public
00:46:36
opinion
00:46:37
um on what you do is you know and
00:46:40
because
00:46:41
um yeah you don't go out of your way
00:46:42
sort of to you know to I guess drag
00:46:46
everyone down the hole with it but it
00:46:48
yeah you end up
00:46:50
I think in a position where
00:46:52
you try not to to listen to all the
00:46:54
negativity but you know everyone's got
00:46:56
an opinion and and Team New Zealand is
00:46:58
always
00:46:59
being you know the only way it's been
00:47:01
able to survive is through Government
00:47:02
funding you know in some aspect and
00:47:06
with that comes the I guess that that
00:47:08
feeling of public ownership you know the
00:47:10
New Zealand you know
00:47:11
um feel like so even even though I
00:47:14
wasn't just a handout it was still I
00:47:16
guess perceived as a handout and it's um
00:47:19
yo that's what it's supposed to take
00:47:20
taxpayers uh feel like they uh have a
00:47:24
sense of ownership in a way I guess yeah
00:47:25
yeah and they want accountability which
00:47:27
is absolutely fair enough you know like
00:47:29
it's um any any sporting team that
00:47:31
doesn't succeed you know you you do need
00:47:33
to have accountability to understand how
00:47:35
you can do things better and so
00:47:38
um but from a personal point of view
00:47:40
like the the
00:47:42
um I suppose the focus the media
00:47:44
attention the negativity and things
00:47:46
around it all you know should it really
00:47:48
does make you question why why the hell
00:47:50
do you you die
00:47:51
um because you know the motivation was
00:47:53
always very
00:47:55
strong you know trying to to win the cup
00:47:57
for you know for New Zealand and to
00:47:59
bring the America's Cup back to New
00:48:00
Zealand you know once once it left but
00:48:03
um you would you would have wanted it
00:48:04
more than anybody oh I was just you know
00:48:06
like yeah
00:48:08
San Francisco will be the biggest you
00:48:09
know that'll be the hardest thing to
00:48:11
ever digest you know like how that kind
00:48:13
of went San Francisco is that um 2013
00:48:15
yeah okay yeah and you know like that
00:48:17
will be you know the one thing that I'll
00:48:19
you know I'll look back on and with
00:48:22
regret that you know the whole way
00:48:23
through you know but the rest of my life
00:48:25
you know it's just because we were so
00:48:27
close and you literally could touch you
00:48:28
know you could touch them and it didn't
00:48:30
end up um Falling Away we did and again
00:48:32
that team was phenomenal but you know we
00:48:35
just ultimately you know they uh they
00:48:37
ended up with a better boat okay well
00:48:39
let's go straight there it's the 2013
00:48:41
this is 10 years ago now and I can still
00:48:43
10 years on I can still say you know you
00:48:47
you almost like once when you sort of
00:48:49
like bring it up you sort of bristle a
00:48:51
little bit so this was um yeah San
00:48:53
Francisco you guys against Oracle and
00:48:56
one of the the biggest comebacks in
00:48:58
sporting history so Team New Zealand was
00:49:00
up
00:49:01
what was the score we're eight uh eight
00:49:04
one up eight one and you needed to you
00:49:06
needed one more race to win yeah but
00:49:08
then what did they do they brought in
00:49:09
some parts from overseas or they bought
00:49:11
in souvenirsley no no so you know people
00:49:15
people sort of um
00:49:17
you know it sounds like a bit of a
00:49:19
cop-out but so when when we started
00:49:21
started the uh the Regatta they they
00:49:24
were still at sixes and seven so being
00:49:26
pulled up for uh for cheating they'd um
00:49:28
they'd been tampering with you know
00:49:30
their smaller boats had been through
00:49:32
some like a court court sort of one I
00:49:34
caught an arbitration hearing which um
00:49:36
you know found them at fault you know
00:49:38
they got penalized couple of their
00:49:39
Sailors couldn't be on the boat you know
00:49:40
so they they were really in a bit of
00:49:43
disarray so we're tuned up in San Fran
00:49:45
yeah we've gone through the Louis
00:49:47
Vuitton series and and the and we're you
00:49:49
know we're basically uh just getting
00:49:51
better and better at sailing our boat so
00:49:52
we're selling that at a really high
00:49:53
level
00:49:55
um they were they were still really
00:49:57
struggling to get their thing around the
00:49:58
course they weren't foil jiving and
00:50:01
falling the boat consistently on the
00:50:03
downwind you know they were um
00:50:05
struggling to get that sort of
00:50:06
consistency that we we you know were um
00:50:09
you know at a much higher level so when
00:50:12
we started the cup you know we were you
00:50:14
know we're a lot faster than them on the
00:50:15
up ones you know we'd typically we'd
00:50:17
sort of gain
00:50:18
45 seconds every upwind and and you know
00:50:21
downwind you know we'd normally be a bit
00:50:23
stronger there as well
00:50:25
the Regatta was a really really long
00:50:26
series and
00:50:28
um you know by the time
00:50:31
um
00:50:32
yeah by the time we sort of got all the
00:50:33
way through there was weather delays
00:50:35
There Was You Know days off
00:50:38
um other bits and pieces you know the
00:50:40
races got called off because we went
00:50:42
above the wind limit we had one race
00:50:44
that you know we were had a massive lead
00:50:46
in the um and we ran out of the time
00:50:49
limit
00:50:50
um it was just like went on and on and
00:50:53
on I think you know the racing probably
00:50:54
was the better part of three weeks you
00:50:56
know by the time we
00:50:57
from the start to the end
00:50:59
um
00:51:00
so every every day they they were going
00:51:03
out there and they were just slowly
00:51:05
getting better and better and better and
00:51:06
you know the the deficit that they were
00:51:09
suffering on the up ones that we they
00:51:10
were definitely whittling away at that
00:51:11
so we were still ticking away with race
00:51:13
ones you know they'd get the old one
00:51:15
here and there but then it was like um
00:51:17
you know it was becoming apparent that
00:51:19
you know we needed to get you know get
00:51:20
it finished because they were
00:51:22
you know they were getting you know
00:51:23
really really you know difficult to
00:51:25
actually hold off or beat and
00:51:27
so you know by the end
00:51:30
um
00:51:31
yeah they they turned the 45 second
00:51:33
deficit into a probably a 45 second
00:51:35
Advantage where they were able to get
00:51:37
their boat falling on the upwinds which
00:51:38
you know our systems were limited we
00:51:40
couldn't we couldn't manage stable
00:51:42
flight
00:51:43
um on the Uplands and and that was just
00:51:45
the game changer you know because by the
00:51:47
end we're both very similar on the down
00:51:49
ones you know the the last two races you
00:51:51
know we were um we we LED them around
00:51:53
the the bottom and normally if you had
00:51:55
that Advantage it would be race over but
00:51:58
they were just you know literally sell
00:51:59
straight past us on the other ones so it
00:52:02
was incredibly um frustrating but you
00:52:04
know the the the worst one was you know
00:52:07
when we were leading in the the race
00:52:09
that um that the we ran out of time
00:52:14
um I think we're leading by over a
00:52:15
kilometer on that race but it you know
00:52:17
it was just like
00:52:19
just all the bad luck in the world oh it
00:52:21
was just like you know I think we're
00:52:23
like two minutes from the Finish Line
00:52:24
you know it was just so you know you
00:52:26
could
00:52:27
you know
00:52:30
where's where's the break you know and
00:52:31
it just um
00:52:33
yeah and so just was just one of those
00:52:35
things where just keep going and going
00:52:37
and going and it was just yeah so eight
00:52:39
one and then just just day by day that
00:52:41
they're just talking up the wins
00:52:45
the sort of that mechanical issue on one
00:52:48
of the One races where you know we went
00:52:49
into the tech when we're leading and you
00:52:51
know nearly capsized you know obviously
00:52:53
saving that you know saved a huge amount
00:52:55
of um
00:52:56
issue with damage and things but but you
00:52:59
know we won that race we would it would
00:53:01
have won as well you know and it's
00:53:02
always easier after the fact you know
00:53:04
the would have been cut off and
00:53:05
everything else but
00:53:07
yeah it'll always be really hard to kind
00:53:09
of sit there and look at that one and
00:53:11
say that was uh
00:53:13
yeah yeah do you think do you think
00:53:14
you're over it now or not I I don't I
00:53:16
don't feel like you are but I can't put
00:53:17
words in your mouth but I've had Shane
00:53:18
Cameron on the podcast and he told me
00:53:20
the um that devastating loss here to
00:53:23
David tour he reckons it took him like
00:53:24
seven years to get over it seven years
00:53:25
before you know he'd get through a day
00:53:28
and not think about it
00:53:30
it's interesting like I
00:53:33
I definitely don't think about it every
00:53:34
day but um but I do I do still reflect
00:53:38
on just that thing because you know on
00:53:40
one hand
00:53:41
um
00:53:43
you look at again you look at all the
00:53:45
Fantastic things that the team had done
00:53:47
over the thing where the first team to
00:53:49
you know look at the the rule a bit
00:53:51
differently and figure out that they get
00:53:53
these boats foiling and you know you
00:53:54
look at where
00:53:55
where we are today every every boat yeah
00:53:58
around the world now seems to want to go
00:53:59
foiling in the America's Cup where it is
00:54:01
and
00:54:03
um
00:54:03
you know it changed the course of of
00:54:05
sailing it was sort of pioneering a
00:54:07
different different sort of pathway and
00:54:11
yeah there are a lot of things we could
00:54:12
have done better you know we could have
00:54:14
done you know 100 different things
00:54:16
better but it's
00:54:17
you know you just sort of just
00:54:19
scratching the surface the whole time
00:54:21
and it felt like we were
00:54:22
far enough it hit all the way through
00:54:24
the the process that would you know be
00:54:25
able to sort of maintain that but
00:54:27
you know they they did an amazing job of
00:54:30
actually sort of um you know catching
00:54:32
back up and and you know giving
00:54:34
themselves the opportunity to actually
00:54:35
uh
00:54:37
um you know overtake and and they and
00:54:39
they did it you know only by the you
00:54:41
know the very Barista margins but and is
00:54:44
that when we um as new zealanders got to
00:54:46
meet Jimmy spell he was the captain of
00:54:47
the other boat right yeah so that was
00:54:49
that started this sort of um media I
00:54:51
suppose rivalry between you two yeah
00:54:53
also looking to be number one
00:54:55
you know um so Jim and I we raced
00:54:58
against each other a lot over the years
00:54:59
uh on the match racing circuit so he was
00:55:02
the skipper of um or the Helmsman of
00:55:05
uh Luna Rossa we raced them in the final
00:55:07
of the Louis Vuitton Cup in Valencia in
00:55:09
2007 so we beat them
00:55:12
and we better we beat them 5-0 in there
00:55:15
to to race against the lingi for the the
00:55:17
cup so that was sort of the first time
00:55:19
we'd sort of rate you know that I'd you
00:55:21
know it was really Head to Head you know
00:55:22
in sort of a decent event with Jimmy and
00:55:25
then obviously he was the uh the skipper
00:55:28
of Oracle when uh San Francisco and then
00:55:32
you know again for Oracle and Bermuda
00:55:34
and the following one but
00:55:36
yeah we certainly didn't um didn't hang
00:55:39
out or anything
00:55:40
is he the right guy though we're
00:55:43
actually great great mates yeah so it's
00:55:45
quite a small community isn't it the
00:55:47
Sailing Community yeah on the big scheme
00:55:48
of things it is
00:55:50
um
00:55:51
the Oracle Team New Zealand days you
00:55:53
know there was definitely a lot of um a
00:55:55
lot of hate you know you know it was
00:55:57
definitely very very competitive
00:55:58
um
00:55:59
but um but you know you do learn over
00:56:02
time that you know you are
00:56:04
you know your Fierce competitors on the
00:56:06
water but you know you do need to be
00:56:08
able to
00:56:09
compartmentalize or yeah exactly you
00:56:11
know there's
00:56:12
sort of a bit bigger than just you know
00:56:14
just the the sports field so
00:56:17
um
00:56:18
and you know I think
00:56:20
always have healthy respect for for each
00:56:22
other but it's just um
00:56:24
yeah there was you know he got you on
00:56:27
that occasion well actually not not yeah
00:56:29
he didn't get you on that occasion you
00:56:31
were just one man on the on the [ __ ] oh
00:56:32
yeah but you know like yeah I suppose
00:56:34
you wear the weight of the world on your
00:56:35
shoulders as the captain but yeah I mean
00:56:38
it's a far bigger picture than that
00:56:40
isn't it yeah but how is it how was your
00:56:42
mental health through that time like I I
00:56:44
I just can't imagine how difficult it is
00:56:45
to you know to get through something
00:56:47
like that did you have like a was there
00:56:49
like a team sports psychologist or
00:56:51
anything like that it was um you know
00:56:53
you obviously work together as a squad
00:56:55
as a team yeah you're sort of you talk
00:56:57
through you know where where things are
00:56:58
at you know like
00:57:00
um everyone deals with things in
00:57:02
different ways you know I don't think
00:57:03
two two people can be this you know are
00:57:05
either going to deal with things to say
00:57:07
um
00:57:09
again you know the what while you're in
00:57:11
the in the process or going through the
00:57:13
the races you don't
00:57:15
um
00:57:16
you don't really sense it it's only sort
00:57:19
of when it's it's all said and done that
00:57:21
you
00:57:22
you know you really I guess feel that
00:57:25
sort of the hurt of um you know the
00:57:28
the disappointment you know the emotion
00:57:31
that goes with it because you literally
00:57:33
put everything into into it and for me
00:57:35
that was really the one where it hurt
00:57:37
the most because you you literally have
00:57:39
put everything you have into into their
00:57:42
campaign over many years and
00:57:45
and then one day it's just you know it's
00:57:46
suddenly there's no more races and it
00:57:48
and it's over and you'd
00:57:50
yeah you're packing up and you're going
00:57:52
home and it's
00:57:53
it's bloody hard because you've you
00:57:56
don't ever for one minute think about
00:57:58
what's going to happen tomorrow you know
00:58:00
you're always thinking about
00:58:01
you know the Regatta and and
00:58:04
going out there to win races and and
00:58:06
ultimately won the cup
00:58:08
so when it when it finishes and you
00:58:11
haven't got what you're looking for or
00:58:13
you the result that you expect to to get
00:58:15
it just it's just this massive black
00:58:17
hole you know where you just sort of
00:58:19
thing
00:58:19
what next and so uh yeah so to to deal
00:58:23
with that was um and that that for sure
00:58:25
has been the hardest one ever to to kind
00:58:28
of to deal with you know just because
00:58:30
we'd been so close we we felt like we'd
00:58:33
had the opportunity to to win that one
00:58:36
um I was one hand on the trophy as
00:58:38
people were saying yeah and so so to to
00:58:41
not
00:58:42
um was just like yeah incredibly um
00:58:45
incredibly hard to
00:58:47
to deal with and was the uh was was
00:58:50
there like a Fallout or a personality
00:58:52
clash with you and Grand Dalton at that
00:58:54
time or was that just like a media sort
00:58:55
of no you know we'd been fine all the
00:58:58
way through it um obviously you know
00:59:00
probably where
00:59:03
where
00:59:04
um escalator was when you know the
00:59:06
you know obviously the media sort of um
00:59:09
started climbing on board sort of you
00:59:11
know picking apart all the different
00:59:12
decisions and things that have been made
00:59:14
during that um that process and you know
00:59:16
obviously that created a bit of um a bit
00:59:18
of friction yeah
00:59:20
um
00:59:21
yeah oh man you've been through the ring
00:59:23
array like it's it's not a career for
00:59:25
the faint
00:59:27
should I you know it would have been a
00:59:30
lot nicer to be sitting here you know
00:59:31
talking about you know how I won that
00:59:33
one and then I won that one and yeah
00:59:35
yeah but when you look back now like and
00:59:37
you reflect on your career so far
00:59:40
um it's not done yet are you happy with
00:59:42
it
00:59:44
um there's not a thing that I would
00:59:45
change yeah obviously other than if you
00:59:47
could the results but um but but you
00:59:50
know I've been very very fortunate to
00:59:52
work with some amazing people and you
00:59:54
know being part of some really special
00:59:55
teams and
00:59:57
you work with so many talented
00:59:59
individuals you know like in design sure
01:00:02
team you know uh trainers you know all
01:00:05
these different people that
01:00:07
um open your eyes to different ways of
01:00:09
doing things and how to be a better
01:00:11
person and just I've always been
01:00:13
fascinated with the um the engineering
01:00:15
and design and the technology of um of
01:00:18
what we do and
01:00:20
yeah I think
01:00:22
if it was just going out and doing the
01:00:24
same thing over and over and over you'd
01:00:26
very quickly become bored but because
01:00:28
you're always learning you know every
01:00:30
single day you'd wake up you'd be
01:00:31
thinking you know
01:00:32
what are we going to learn today is it
01:00:34
is the boat going to be faster is there
01:00:36
some you know better way of doing
01:00:37
something are we going to learn you know
01:00:39
a different technique of how to race the
01:00:41
boat better or what you're always
01:00:42
challenging yourself to be be better and
01:00:45
and I think that was probably one of the
01:00:48
the best um the best things about it
01:00:50
like to to go to work and know that
01:00:53
you're you're probably going to come
01:00:55
home slightly better off than you will
01:00:57
when you when you arrived it's it was
01:00:59
pretty cool yeah so they're um they're
01:01:02
two very very different but two very big
01:01:05
events in your life so there's the um
01:01:07
like the bowel cancer diagnosis and the
01:01:09
2013 America's Cup and that whole
01:01:11
campaign and then the ultimate
01:01:13
disappointment at the end how like how
01:01:14
do those two
01:01:16
um compare in terms of like big things
01:01:18
on the scheme of life is is there any
01:01:20
sort of
01:01:22
um
01:01:24
I don't know if ever really thought
01:01:26
about it like that it's um they're too
01:01:29
suppose one one big difference is like
01:01:31
yeah they are both both big things one's
01:01:34
a matter of life and death the other
01:01:35
one's not it's just sport but one of one
01:01:37
you can do in in private with just your
01:01:39
family the other one you've got the you
01:01:41
know four million people with an opinion
01:01:43
even though they don't injection about
01:01:45
it
01:01:46
I think that the biggest difference I'm
01:01:47
just thinking you know thinking about is
01:01:48
sitting here now but probably the
01:01:51
biggest one for me was that you know one
01:01:52
is as you say it's a personal
01:01:55
um you know it's it's sort of you
01:01:58
against you know
01:01:59
something you can't even see or touch
01:02:01
you know you're just dealing with
01:02:03
something that has happened to your your
01:02:05
body and you can't really um
01:02:07
maybe you can't rationalize it or figure
01:02:09
out why but it's there and you've got to
01:02:11
deal with it you know the other is
01:02:13
something that you've you've planned for
01:02:14
and you've known and you've got your
01:02:17
sort of your timeline and everything
01:02:18
else and so you
01:02:20
you you've forgot the the benefit of
01:02:23
time to sort of make a make a plan and
01:02:25
and
01:02:26
um
01:02:27
figure out how you're going to sort of
01:02:29
put all the pieces together working with
01:02:30
a group of people so your one's a very
01:02:32
personal thing one's a yeah a much
01:02:35
bigger
01:02:36
bigger thing where you're sort of
01:02:37
operating on on a different kind of
01:02:38
scale I suppose but um what's harder
01:02:42
well yeah without doubt it's uh you know
01:02:46
the personal you know battle with um
01:02:47
with your health because you know it's
01:02:49
the one thing that
01:02:51
um you know you you know that you have
01:02:53
to win it's uh you know it's not not one
01:02:56
that you can
01:02:57
sort of accept the other the other
01:02:59
alternative yeah oh thanks for that
01:03:01
explanation yeah sorry for putting you
01:03:03
on the spot
01:03:05
no it's quite an interesting way to look
01:03:07
it up well I mean you've just been
01:03:09
through like that 2013 America's Cup
01:03:10
campaign
01:03:12
um
01:03:13
you know you it's it's a team sport but
01:03:15
it's um you've been through something
01:03:16
that no one else will ever ever get to
01:03:18
go through and I just can't imagine what
01:03:20
it's like going through that and the
01:03:21
fact that you didn't made it through the
01:03:23
other end and you're a stronger person
01:03:24
for it you know it speaks loads about
01:03:26
your character I think yeah it's yeah
01:03:29
it's always it's just
01:03:31
it's amazing how you can keep
01:03:33
challenging yourself in different ways
01:03:34
and you know and hopefully you you're
01:03:36
better when you come out the other end
01:03:37
of it but it's yeah there's definitely
01:03:39
you know you you
01:03:41
've
01:03:42
um you definitely feel scars in
01:03:44
different ways you know whether it's
01:03:45
emotional or possible so
01:03:48
yeah where does that where does that
01:03:50
sort of um resilience and Inner Strength
01:03:52
come from is it something that you've
01:03:53
had to think about or it's just um just
01:03:55
in you and you're just a tough [ __ ]
01:03:59
um I wouldn't categorize myself as that
01:04:00
I just I think it's um you you know you
01:04:04
probably develop thick skin over time
01:04:06
because you know you
01:04:08
certainly with uh been involved in a uh
01:04:11
The Team New Zealand campaigns
01:04:13
where you are very much in the public
01:04:15
eye a lot of the time it's um and and
01:04:18
that support is you know is fantastic
01:04:19
you know when it's there but obviously
01:04:21
the aftermath when it's not it hasn't
01:04:23
gone well you know you you do have to be
01:04:25
um
01:04:26
recovery resilient you know because it's
01:04:28
just you know you you do get yeah you
01:04:31
just get beaten down and down and down
01:04:33
and it is really really tough you know
01:04:35
because a lot of it's very personal and
01:04:38
um you know some of it's very uneducated
01:04:40
but it's an opinion that people have oh
01:04:43
most of it is uneducated when the
01:04:46
America's Cup's on like suddenly
01:04:47
everyone's using yachting terminology
01:04:49
that we've heard on the TV but we know
01:04:51
nothing about what's going on yeah but
01:04:54
but again you know when when there's
01:04:55
been public money involved you know and
01:04:57
that feels like it's sort of that sense
01:04:59
of you know accountability and people
01:05:00
you know they do care which is which is
01:05:02
great you know and I think New Zealand
01:05:04
you know whether it's the All Blacks or
01:05:06
the the cricket team or the netballers
01:05:08
or you know whatever it might be at the
01:05:10
time the Olympics you know everyone's
01:05:11
got an opinion you know and it New
01:05:13
Zealand
01:05:14
you know I've been fortunate to travel a
01:05:16
lot to go to you know to you know lots
01:05:19
of different places with the sailing and
01:05:20
and it's been great opportunity but
01:05:22
people can't often understand how New
01:05:26
Zealand can be so focused on on you know
01:05:29
on Sports and sports teams yeah yeah
01:05:31
yeah you know it's it is quite quite
01:05:33
remarkable but
01:05:34
yeah it is cool to see at the same time
01:05:37
you know that um the way that the
01:05:39
country does embrace and get them behind
01:05:40
you know the different different things
01:05:42
that are on you know at any particular
01:05:44
time yeah actually we haven't even
01:05:46
mentioned you going to the Olympics so
01:05:47
you went to the 2004 Olympics in Athens
01:05:50
um
01:05:50
who was uh Sarah Alma she won a gold the
01:05:53
Evis Wendell's twins I think Ben Phillie
01:05:56
did okay what are your memories of the
01:05:58
Olympics was it a fun time it was a good
01:06:00
experience yeah it was good like I
01:06:02
tried to qualify in 96 and you know got
01:06:04
really close you know
01:06:06
um and it was something that I really
01:06:08
wanted to go and participate in and so
01:06:10
after the 2003 cup I jumped back in the
01:06:15
fin uh had six months to basically
01:06:17
prepare for the games and it was just
01:06:19
you know sort of thinking well
01:06:21
you know if I can be involved in the
01:06:23
America's Cup you know surely I can do
01:06:24
the Olympics and
01:06:25
you know it was a bit of a it was a
01:06:27
mistake because I just hadn't had enough
01:06:29
time you know that most most people were
01:06:30
in the sailing and probably most other
01:06:32
sports you know they've dedicated the
01:06:34
past four or six or eight years whatever
01:06:36
two you know the ultimate goal and
01:06:39
um yeah I just didn't didn't have enough
01:06:41
time I had some good results leading up
01:06:42
to it got to the games and just wasn't
01:06:44
just wasn't good enough you know to
01:06:47
um to be able to get you know to a
01:06:49
middle position but yeah I think you
01:06:50
finished um like 12th or something but
01:06:52
but yeah that aside was that a fun
01:06:54
experience going to the Olympic Games I
01:06:56
mean you know it's yeah it's one of the
01:06:58
it's an experience where you need I
01:07:00
really think you'd benefit by going
01:07:02
going twice you know where you you
01:07:04
understand the process you you learn the
01:07:07
the lessons you know you sort of see
01:07:09
what's going on because it is it is
01:07:10
quite a a daunting thing you know you
01:07:12
get there and you know the security and
01:07:14
the athletes and
01:07:15
you know the the team Village and all
01:07:18
all of those things you look at it you
01:07:19
just go wow you know this this is pretty
01:07:22
Implement amazing you know and um
01:07:25
yeah it's um
01:07:27
but you know that was when they the um
01:07:30
Hamish and Bevin oh the toiathlon one
01:07:33
and two yeah that was remarkable going
01:07:36
along and watching that you know seeing
01:07:37
those guys doing yeah it just yeah good
01:07:40
oh it was just it was just so cool you
01:07:42
know like um you know to see New Zealand
01:07:44
doing so well on the world stage you
01:07:46
know it's um you know we punched so far
01:07:49
above our way you know internationally
01:07:51
it's uh it's amazing and yeah you look
01:07:54
at the the two um two girls is Amy and
01:07:57
Lisa you know this in the uh remarkable
01:08:00
you know like you know it's just how can
01:08:02
two people you know dominate a you know
01:08:05
a world you know the World sport you
01:08:07
know yeah you must be a case of them
01:08:09
sort of like pushing each other or
01:08:10
keeping each other honest yeah which is
01:08:12
which is you know again as it seems like
01:08:14
a very New Zealand thing and um
01:08:17
how have um people in the public been to
01:08:19
you over the years has it only ever been
01:08:21
nice has there ever been anyone that's
01:08:23
that's come up you know during good
01:08:24
times or bad times and you know being
01:08:27
inappropriate
01:08:29
um again everyone everyone's got an
01:08:31
opinion and you know like when you jump
01:08:32
in the taxi and uh and yeah they start
01:08:35
telling you about foiling tax and how
01:08:36
you could do this that this better and
01:08:38
everything else it's kind of it's pretty
01:08:40
hard case but um no I have to say
01:08:44
um you know all in all like the the
01:08:47
support that I've had through my career
01:08:48
you know particularly when I've been you
01:08:50
know sailing as part of Team New Zealand
01:08:52
or whatever it's just been it's been
01:08:53
phenomenal when they even you know like
01:08:55
when we're here with American Media you
01:08:57
know just
01:08:58
um I think the New Zealand Public in
01:09:01
relation to America's Cup probably are
01:09:02
more accepting now that that you know
01:09:05
only a certain number of people can work
01:09:06
for for Team New Zealand and then kiwis
01:09:09
go and work for other other teams
01:09:10
because you know they're perceived as
01:09:13
um been able to bring you know a lot of
01:09:15
a lot of you know probably good uh
01:09:18
attributes to what their you know the
01:09:19
other teams are doing and so
01:09:21
but yeah it's the support that I've
01:09:23
always felt has been you know been
01:09:25
pretty pretty special you know you
01:09:27
definitely treasure a lot of the uh a
01:09:29
lot of that and
01:09:31
um
01:09:31
and you do realize that you know when
01:09:33
things don't go well that you do need to
01:09:34
be you know be prepared to you know I
01:09:36
guess be able to stand there and and uh
01:09:39
you know talk about you know
01:09:41
the reasons why yeah yeah I I've had um
01:09:44
seriously Bloomfield sitting in that
01:09:46
chair and he said someone came up to him
01:09:47
once and said I I hope you have a bad
01:09:49
day and that's the worst he got
01:09:51
um it is nice to know that um even when
01:09:54
things are things are tough and people
01:09:55
feel like they've got a right to say
01:09:56
something that they they just don't they
01:09:58
save that stuff for the internet
01:10:01
and there was another I guess it's been
01:10:03
a lesson you know avoid the internet
01:10:04
because that is you know like some of
01:10:06
the forums and things that exist you
01:10:07
know again they'd make you want to give
01:10:10
up you know before you even start you
01:10:12
know because they again the keyboard
01:10:14
Warriors you know they've got plenty to
01:10:15
say and uh yeah without any any sort of
01:10:19
basis to to sort of um you know be able
01:10:22
to to say you know Laurel what they do
01:10:23
say so yeah
01:10:25
um
01:10:26
but yeah when you when you reflect on
01:10:28
your your career so far mostly happy
01:10:30
with it it's been a lot of highlights
01:10:32
yeah there's a lot of yeah a lot of
01:10:35
things which I've you know really you
01:10:36
know feel very fortunate to have had the
01:10:38
opportunity to do
01:10:39
um
01:10:40
now again you know if if you're you know
01:10:43
reflecting on it San Francisco
01:10:44
definitely it was one that got away you
01:10:46
know Valencia we we had a probably as
01:10:49
good a shot as we could have you know
01:10:51
but I think in the end of long you were
01:10:52
just again still still too strong
01:10:55
um
01:10:56
but yeah I've you know I've been just so
01:10:59
so lucky to work with you know some
01:11:00
great teams and to be to be you know a
01:11:02
part of that so you know I really have
01:11:05
enjoyed everything that I've done there
01:11:07
um
01:11:08
but you know you definitely reach a
01:11:09
point you know for me it was
01:11:11
you know at 46 you know finding out
01:11:13
about the
01:11:14
uh the bowel cancer and that really
01:11:17
probably
01:11:19
I guess rang you know it rang home at
01:11:21
that point but things were um
01:11:24
you know I needed to probably just take
01:11:25
a step back and and reevaluate you know
01:11:27
where I was and what I was doing because
01:11:30
again the body's telling you something
01:11:33
um it doesn't happen you know just
01:11:35
because it wants to but it's probably
01:11:37
something going on that you need to
01:11:38
probably address and how's the second
01:11:40
half of your life gonna look um you your
01:11:42
kids are pretty much almost off your
01:11:44
hands now right how uh
01:11:45
so we've got four kids
01:11:48
um eldest one's just turned 18.
01:11:51
um they're got a 15 14 12 so a few more
01:11:55
years people you're at the age now where
01:11:57
you and you and Mandy can go out for
01:11:58
dinner and someone's going to look after
01:11:59
someone
01:12:00
yeah no it's good we're sort of
01:12:02
definitely you know you you do feel like
01:12:04
you sort of get a bit of a bit of time
01:12:06
back but and saying that you know the
01:12:08
kids are just so active with with school
01:12:11
Sport and Club Sport and everything else
01:12:14
and it is actually really nice to see
01:12:16
them going out and doing things for
01:12:18
themselves you know like they we've
01:12:20
never pushed them into doing anything
01:12:22
that they don't want to do themselves
01:12:24
but it is nice to see uh see them really
01:12:27
active and I think the best part about
01:12:30
it is that they're it's keeping them off
01:12:31
their devices and and everything else
01:12:33
because it is very different now to now
01:12:36
we used to go out there and climb trees
01:12:37
and you know like ride bikes around the
01:12:39
neighborhood and you know now it's like
01:12:41
yeah oh there's so much that you can do
01:12:43
on your devices yeah it's a completely
01:12:45
different game now isn't it so how long
01:12:48
have you been
01:12:49
20 years yeah we got married and you're
01:12:52
just about yeah we got married in 2004.
01:12:54
congratulations yeah so it's uh yeah I
01:12:58
don't know how Mandy's put up me for
01:12:59
that long
01:13:00
yeah how did you guys make so Mandy was
01:13:04
um
01:13:05
she's she she's been out of the public
01:13:06
eye for such a long time now I feel like
01:13:09
this is by Design but
01:13:11
um yeah there was a time so she was
01:13:13
seeing Mark Alice for a number of years
01:13:14
in their varsity days and they were like
01:13:15
the couple of New Zealand like the
01:13:17
sporting couple you had an all black and
01:13:19
a you know black Stacks hockey player
01:13:22
um then then yeah how did you guys make
01:13:24
how did that come about oh I was a blind
01:13:25
date after uh it was after 2000 I went
01:13:28
over to Sydney and and uh
01:13:32
uh and watch watch to play what you know
01:13:34
we don't watch the New Zealand hockey
01:13:36
hockey team play their was their playoff
01:13:40
match to get into the gold and silver
01:13:43
um
01:13:43
yeah right against Argentina and you
01:13:46
know it obviously didn't work out the
01:13:48
way they wanted but
01:13:50
um
01:13:51
I was aware of it you know of her then
01:13:53
you know nothing really
01:13:55
um but you know later in the year we
01:13:57
sort of um you know a mutual friend sort
01:13:58
of set us up on a blind date and when we
01:14:00
went out I was um yeah Restless history
01:14:02
but it's
01:14:04
it was um yeah it was pretty
01:14:07
yeah it's been great like you know we've
01:14:09
had some fantastic times together you
01:14:11
know we've been um
01:14:13
I think having that sort of same more
01:14:15
sharing you know passion for sport and
01:14:17
and sort of been involved in teams and
01:14:19
everything else I think that's been been
01:14:21
great and
01:14:23
yeah obviously we have a very
01:14:24
competitive uh relationship at times
01:14:27
like what about anything tennis or you
01:14:31
know like yes
01:14:32
um or you know golf I've probably got
01:14:35
the better of her on that one but it's
01:14:36
um but no no we've done things like
01:14:37
board games though no no no no no no no
01:14:39
no no but no it's been it's been
01:14:42
fantastic and she's you know she's been
01:14:43
a huge you know support you know
01:14:46
um you know when things haven't been
01:14:47
great you know um
01:14:49
but never more so than you know
01:14:51
obviously going through the health the
01:14:52
health issues yeah like um you know
01:14:54
having that support I think you know
01:14:55
there's no way I would have got through
01:14:56
what I'd been through without you know
01:14:58
having her there to to help through with
01:15:00
that it's um
01:15:01
you know because it is very very taxing
01:15:03
you know you sort of think you're
01:15:04
dealing with it okay but
01:15:06
you definitely have some some down time
01:15:08
or down days as well yeah without a
01:15:11
doubt
01:15:11
um and I suppose with her background in
01:15:13
high performance sport herself she can
01:15:15
offer some
01:15:16
sort of perspective on things like when
01:15:18
things like I suppose in 2013 San
01:15:20
Francisco when when things don't go well
01:15:22
or is it just a case of just her her
01:15:24
being there as your support person oh
01:15:25
both you know yeah yeah she she
01:15:28
obviously you know has has experienced
01:15:30
highs and lows with um with what she's
01:15:31
done with the hockey and and other
01:15:33
things as well and you know she um
01:15:37
you know she's she had a really tough um
01:15:39
experience when new and she was young
01:15:41
her elder sister um
01:15:43
you know died of a brain tumor you know
01:15:45
you know at a very young age you know
01:15:47
early 20s and and so
01:15:49
you know she's she's experienced some
01:15:51
pretty tough personal losses as well
01:15:54
um
01:15:55
and so um
01:15:57
yeah it just helps to bring a balance
01:15:59
because you know it is easy to sit there
01:16:01
sort of feeling you know a little bit
01:16:02
down and maybe a bit sorry for yourself
01:16:04
and you know just that sort of gentle
01:16:06
reminder that
01:16:07
you know there's there's a there's other
01:16:09
things going on out there as well and so
01:16:11
you know it is good to have that sort of
01:16:13
grounding yeah
01:16:14
so uh yeah so when's when do you know
01:16:17
when your wedding date is when's the
01:16:18
20th anniversary it's February yeah oh
01:16:21
next year next year will be 20 years
01:16:23
right oh that's that's a milestone to be
01:16:25
proud of I got married in 2004 as well
01:16:27
but I'm no longer with my wife so
01:16:29
congratulations
01:16:31
oh thank you you know it's uh yeah it's
01:16:35
oh yeah yeah obviously very lucky you
01:16:36
know we sort of had a you know a great
01:16:38
relationship but it's um you know and
01:16:39
she's obviously never one sort of
01:16:41
question you know traveling to Nevada
01:16:43
carry on doing what we've been doing
01:16:45
um with all the different sailing and
01:16:47
teams and what have you but
01:16:49
but you know she's obviously been a huge
01:16:51
part of you know keeping the kids sorted
01:16:54
organized and grounded and things you
01:16:56
know because you know I've often had to
01:16:58
travel when things managed to be there
01:16:59
for all the bursts which was probably an
01:17:01
achievement but um I wouldn't be worth
01:17:04
living if you didn't yeah I don't know
01:17:06
you didn't hear about that that's for
01:17:07
sure yeah what's that like I've never
01:17:09
been able to have my own own kids so
01:17:10
I've never experienced that but it's um
01:17:12
yeah it's an emotional experience just a
01:17:15
an exciting experience
01:17:18
um the the first one I think is was
01:17:21
definitely was definitely probably the
01:17:23
most interesting because you know you're
01:17:26
in there you've had the baby well I
01:17:29
haven't Mandy has um and take a movement
01:17:31
then a few hours later you know you're
01:17:33
basically walking out the front door of
01:17:34
the hospital with the capsule going you
01:17:37
know where's the instruction manual you
01:17:38
know like it's uh it's definitely
01:17:40
and then by the time number four rolls
01:17:42
around you know you sort of basically
01:17:44
you throw them the caption off you go
01:17:45
you know it's like um you know very
01:17:47
different sort of uh
01:17:49
the way you look at it the first one you
01:17:51
know I think for everyone it's always
01:17:52
you know they're wrapped in Cotton wall
01:17:53
and you know they're but you very
01:17:55
quickly realize how kind of uh robust
01:17:58
they are and you know like that and the
01:18:01
unique thing is how different they they
01:18:03
all are like just same parents but
01:18:06
different you know completely different
01:18:07
outcomes so yeah yeah yeah it's I've Got
01:18:11
Friends that say exactly the same thing
01:18:12
like they said the first kid that you
01:18:14
know race to a e in the middle of the
01:18:15
night with even a little cough and by
01:18:17
the time of kid number three they could
01:18:18
be like coughing in bed at night and
01:18:19
they're just like oh it'll be fine worry
01:18:21
about it in the morning oh how good how
01:18:23
good
01:18:24
um anyway thanks so much for coming over
01:18:26
today no no come at all I really really
01:18:29
appreciate it I feel like you're one of
01:18:30
these these people as I said at the
01:18:31
beginning everyone knows but um yeah by
01:18:33
Design like no one knows a lot about
01:18:35
Dean Barker because um you've just
01:18:37
you're just one of these new zealanders
01:18:39
almost like an old school New Zealander
01:18:40
where you've just like put your head
01:18:41
down McDonald's and got through with
01:18:44
things so I appreciate you coming today
01:18:46
and being so open about everything yeah
01:18:48
you do much running now are you mate
01:18:50
I've got osteoarthritis in the middle of
01:18:52
my knee so the last year has been a test
01:18:54
of patience trying to get back into it
01:18:56
um but yeah I got out for 10K this
01:18:57
morning a bit slower now but I think I
01:19:00
see you at the start line of one of the
01:19:01
Auckland marathons I used to I used to
01:19:03
love right running was yeah was my
01:19:05
release and I used to just love being
01:19:07
you know because it was so transportable
01:19:09
every time you went to a Regatta or
01:19:11
anything you know it was just so nice to
01:19:12
go out for a runs to clear the heater
01:19:14
yeah and things and then you know just
01:19:16
you know like as I got a little bit
01:19:18
older just really struggle with calf
01:19:20
injuries you know just really struggled
01:19:22
to get on top of it and just you know
01:19:24
be be running and
01:19:26
yeah just have an issue and just you
01:19:27
know then say I haven't got the biggest
01:19:29
carve so it probably doesn't help but um
01:19:31
but
01:19:32
yeah I used to love it but so yeah my my
01:19:34
Fitness training sort of cardios have
01:19:36
ended up being more on the on the
01:19:38
stationary bike you know Peloton and
01:19:39
that sort of thing yeah it's um oh aging
01:19:42
mate it's it's uh it's a terrible thing
01:19:44
yeah yeah yeah
01:19:46
um so what did you do a full Marathon
01:19:48
just a couple of halves I did two or
01:19:51
three halves here yeah um how'd you get
01:19:54
on you go right you're quite you're
01:19:55
quite a big donor you're taller than
01:19:56
what I imagined I think yeah I think the
01:19:58
best time of it was a 132 oh [ __ ] but
01:20:01
yeah I was okay I don't know what's your
01:20:04
what's your sort of oh let's not get
01:20:06
into comparing time so it doesn't matter
01:20:08
it's a very personal thing right I I got
01:20:11
down to like um I I did a one hour 23
01:20:14
half marathon which is good it took me
01:20:16
years I I had a goal of breaking three
01:20:18
hours in the marathon which is like four
01:20:20
four minutes 16k pace and I ended up
01:20:22
doing that one and done but the work
01:20:24
required to get me to that pace I
01:20:27
thought after doing it
01:20:29
yeah could I do it again could I go back
01:20:31
could I even go faster than two hours 57
01:20:33
which is what I did and the answer I
01:20:35
came up with was probably maybe I could
01:20:37
get down to 255 or two but whatever but
01:20:39
the amount of extra work required it
01:20:42
just wouldn't be worth the extra
01:20:43
satisfaction it would bring me yeah no
01:20:46
it's a you know running such a mental
01:20:48
thing isn't it because you know you it's
01:20:50
so easy I remember the first half I did
01:20:51
you know when you you line up and
01:20:53
everyone just bolts and and you sort of
01:20:56
you get you get caught up with your
01:20:57
adrenaline and everything else you know
01:20:58
you sort of almost forget about
01:20:59
everything you know about pacing and
01:21:01
things and yeah five or 10K in and
01:21:04
you're going oh my God you know like
01:21:05
it's uh
01:21:06
yeah so the second time around it was
01:21:08
actually you know much it was much
01:21:10
easier you just sort of you know you
01:21:11
have that discipline as you say you know
01:21:13
you look at your
01:21:14
their timing and your pace and
01:21:15
everything but because at the start line
01:21:17
of a half marathon or a marathon
01:21:19
everyone's feeling good you know you've
01:21:20
done the training you've tapered off
01:21:23
um you're feeling energized by being
01:21:25
around the crowd but that's the hard
01:21:26
thing going slow than what you feel like
01:21:28
you should in those opening case yeah
01:21:30
yeah no it is you know because I
01:21:33
um we had uh working with us at Team New
01:21:35
Zealand uh John Ackland who obviously oh
01:21:38
yeah yeah Legend is being so involved in
01:21:40
high performance you know Sport and
01:21:42
running and things and you know I
01:21:44
remember him saying you know like when I
01:21:45
went to do the first one and said you
01:21:47
know basically you've got to think of it
01:21:49
that 16k is probably where you want to
01:21:51
feel like you've exerted half your
01:21:52
energy you know and it's like yeah it
01:21:55
does it does sort of you know like the
01:21:56
first time around it does definitely
01:21:57
feel like that you know you you sort of
01:21:59
get there and you think oh it's only
01:22:00
five to go but it's they are it's it's a
01:22:03
tough 5K yeah never done them full um
01:22:06
you know it was one thing I was would
01:22:08
have liked to have done but
01:22:09
still could still could I just got to
01:22:11
transport the damn carves out but yeah
01:22:13
yeah mate you've um you've been through
01:22:16
so much if you uh anything you want to
01:22:18
put your mind to I reckon you could do
01:22:20
seriously like you've been through a lot
01:22:23
yeah no I do I do definitely miss the
01:22:26
running I'd like to I'd like to get back
01:22:27
into it but I just got out here try and
01:22:29
sort that part yeah
01:22:31
hey we're Dean Barker you're a great New
01:22:33
Zealander thank you so much for being uh
01:22:35
so open with your um your professional
01:22:37
and personal stories today really
01:22:38
appreciate it
01:22:40
best of luck for whatever the future
01:22:42
brings yeah you too
01:22:44
[Music]
01:22:58
thank you
