00:00:00
hey Runners only with dime Harley
00:00:03
Runners only with dom Harvey and
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Campbell Johnston g'day mate how are you
00:00:07
good thanks Tom yourself yeah very well
00:00:09
thank you so much for coming over for an
00:00:10
episode thank you for the invitation
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it's been great first of all first of
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all former front rower what the hell do
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you know about running you run these
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days you do look like a runner these
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days but you didn't back in the day no
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yeah I've lost a lot of weight
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um I guess I just went back to my normal
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size
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um as my mother says she um now thinks
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she's got her son back now I've lost all
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my weight because yeah I was always
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never a huge man when I was growing up
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or when I was um starting off with rugby
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but um to play the position and playing
00:00:41
the sport you've got to put some size on
00:00:43
so that was what I had to do yeah
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because you were a prop yes correct so
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you're playing weight was playing weight
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was between 110 to 113 kilos shame what
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are you now who's sitting in front of me
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86 kilos you like the same as me
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it's like a completely different person
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yeah um there's there's been a lot
00:01:03
that's been happening um for you since
00:01:05
uh January 30th this year when you did
00:01:07
that um seven sharp interview with um
00:01:09
Hillary had you had you heard the phrase
00:01:12
glow up before then
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[Laughter]
00:01:15
um
00:01:17
I'm guessing you're not huge on Tech
00:01:19
talk no I'm not on Tick Tock yet but uh
00:01:22
yeah no I hadn't heard the phrase there
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um yeah you know the interview yeah the
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interview is really good and
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um yeah I'm full confidence to uh
00:01:33
Hillary Barry she just made it so easy
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like she's just a this ultimate
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professional and she just made it very
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relaxed and very comfortable and and and
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and and just wonderful for me to be able
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to do that with her yeah oh man I'm so
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excited to get into get into that by the
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way for anyone that um isn't sure the
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phrase glow up it's basically um when
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you get better looking with age
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um
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well you don't look like a front rower
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anymore I suppose that's what people
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mean all right now um how close are you
00:02:00
with Kieran Reed one of the greatest all
00:02:02
black captains of all time uh you've
00:02:04
recently
00:02:05
it depends on what you're going to read
00:02:07
out um but they might change my opinion
00:02:10
I I sent uh Karen read a message
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yesterday asking uh saying I was
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catching up with you and asking if he
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had any Goss
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um he refers to you as CJ yeah yeah is
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that was that what your name was within
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the team circles okay
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awesome to have CJ come on yeah we
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crossed over for a couple of years I
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will ask Corey Flynn who knows him a bit
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bit better who might have a few Yarns
00:02:30
well of course that Corey Flynn he was
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in all black the same time as you played
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about I think 17 tests over a number of
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years yeah so Corey and I were
00:02:37
we played a lot of rugby together both
00:02:39
when we were um eighth grade stuff and
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then in the Crusaders and uh and then
00:02:43
Canterbury and and um and um and a
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couple of uh rep teams as well the
00:02:49
Juniors and things like that so yeah
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does it does it make you um yeah your
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palms getting sweaty yeah
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I wasn't too consuming Karen Riggs I
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knew Karen nicest guy yeah nice guy but
00:03:01
when you mentioned Corey's name then I
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was I was like oh hang on a minute all
00:03:05
things changed
00:03:07
Dom's ambushed me
00:03:10
um so uh Kieran Reid went on to say uh
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to be honest
00:03:13
CJ is probably the last person you'd
00:03:15
think that would be gay he enjoyed the
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drinking putting on social events with a
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few other boys his flight with Scott
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Hamilton was where all the parties were
00:03:24
at knowing now it must have been bloody
00:03:26
hard for him but to me at the time he
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was just a great teammate who seemed to
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enjoy the Boost more than others
00:03:32
now I was I was thinking I was I was
00:03:35
thinking about that
00:03:36
um earlier this morning before you came
00:03:38
in and I didn't have you had therapy
00:03:40
over the years at all
00:03:42
I've done a bit of therapies and when
00:03:44
you've done a bit of therapy you tend to
00:03:45
well at least I do I tend to think how
00:03:48
would a therapist frame this so maybe
00:03:50
this is just completely overthinking it
00:03:52
but there's two ways uh two ways that I
00:03:54
looked at it maybe you were drinking a
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lot at the time because you were masking
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or maybe like you were you were just
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doing what you could to be the
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definition of what you thought like a
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big manly man was like like being a
00:04:07
front rower being a successful rugby
00:04:08
player drinking a lot of piss yeah I
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mean it people have asked that and and
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brought that up before but to be honest
00:04:18
I was playing and the time was coming
00:04:20
through there was this transition from
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where it was amateur to professional and
00:04:24
amateur and and at the time and and then
00:04:27
the new professionals still involved a
00:04:29
lot of partying and a lot of good times
00:04:31
and the drinking was well not actually
00:04:35
to mask anything but it was just because
00:04:39
we were having fun like it was a part of
00:04:41
the the so-called culture which as the
00:04:45
years went on it slowly you know it's
00:04:47
toned down to more professional sport
00:04:50
but um yeah it was more so because of
00:04:52
the fun aspect and then really any any
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masking I mean
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if yeah masking in drunk maybe I would
00:05:01
have just spilled something out or
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yelled something out or just yeah so I
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don't think it was masking yeah yeah or
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fun sorry that just means
00:05:08
psychoanalyzing without any formal
00:05:10
qualifications at all loves a good time
00:05:13
yeah
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um Rito went on to say um they sent a
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follow-up text this morning saying sorry
00:05:17
mate sorry mate got nothing out of
00:05:19
flinny he said he said they weren't fit
00:05:22
for broadcast have a good chat well
00:05:24
without
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do you want to Spill the tea on that one
00:05:28
can you think of any story that wouldn't
00:05:30
be fit for broadcast uh no no everything
00:05:33
was pretty pretty tame I think I just
00:05:36
enjoyed a nice pint at the pub and uh
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after a game and um and then yeah and
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everyone went home and that end no
00:05:45
further questions okay
00:05:47
um now I I need to I need to warn you
00:05:49
like I may ask some dumb questions and
00:05:51
if or when I do please know that I'm not
00:05:53
trying to be a dumbass I'm just curious
00:05:55
okay yeah um okay so so Monday the 30th
00:05:58
of January this year uh seven sharp
00:06:00
interview with Hillary Barry
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um Talk us through the process leading
00:06:05
up to that like when who did you speak
00:06:07
to when did you decide to do it with
00:06:09
seven sharp what was that process
00:06:12
um so so a bit of a backstory is that
00:06:16
there's always media that was always
00:06:18
asking and going to Joe Malcolm and and
00:06:21
they always knew Christian Joe Malcolm
00:06:24
was the media liaison obviously for the
00:06:26
All Blacks and at the time when I was in
00:06:28
Canterbury and Crusaders she was media
00:06:30
liaison there so she's been a massive
00:06:32
help and a big support and um and they
00:06:35
always would come and ask and say you
00:06:36
know we know it we know this Campbell
00:06:39
was a gay all black can we publish it
00:06:41
and then it was always shut down because
00:06:44
for me it wasn't it wasn't I didn't feel
00:06:47
right in myself or you know securing
00:06:49
myself to do that I wasn't happy with
00:06:51
myself so for me it was um it wasn't the
00:06:54
right time and then last year
00:06:56
we I spoke with Rob nickel from The
00:06:58
Players Association and we had a
00:07:00
discussion around this whole
00:07:02
idea and how much it could really help
00:07:05
people out there and and and people
00:07:07
struggling with this and and I
00:07:10
honest and and naively just thought well
00:07:13
I don't think it can I'm pretty happy
00:07:15
where my life is and and that and I am
00:07:18
comfortable but I don't think I can
00:07:19
really help it's you know it's just a
00:07:21
little little on me I'm
00:07:22
don't really have no you are a little
00:07:24
now yeah exactly you don't really have
00:07:26
much to offer and then
00:07:29
we talked more about it and it did
00:07:31
become apparent that there is you know
00:07:33
it could actually help and then so Rob
00:07:35
and I
00:07:37
structured a little way that we thought
00:07:39
would be best which was just visiting
00:07:41
the Super Rugby teams and and and
00:07:43
telling a story and and and and and that
00:07:46
was it and then if the media caught on
00:07:49
to it then you know that would be good
00:07:51
if they didn't we just keep trucking
00:07:53
along but then we thought we'd better
00:07:55
bring in Joe Malcolm just to get a
00:07:57
professional bit of advice on the media
00:07:59
aspect and Joe basically said you know
00:08:03
we're a little crazy doing it that way
00:08:06
and it's not really the best way and and
00:08:09
short words she just said you guys are
00:08:11
just so stupid and um and then she said
00:08:14
look you want to we want to actually
00:08:16
just front the media and kinda
00:08:19
pay them back the respect that they
00:08:22
showed me and and um and Joe by not
00:08:26
outing me at the time oh but come on
00:08:29
like like adding someone when they're
00:08:30
not ready it's like it's a it's a
00:08:32
[ __ ] sin it's a terrible it is it is
00:08:34
but someone could have done it yeah and
00:08:37
so the respect there was she said we
00:08:39
just make a public story
00:08:42
um we contact Hillary ask if she's
00:08:44
interested and we do it that way and
00:08:46
that that way they all can have it and
00:08:48
they can do what they they like with it
00:08:50
and so that was the the plan so we uh
00:08:54
Joe contacted Hillary Hillary was jumped
00:08:57
on it and um the rest is the what you
00:09:01
saw so when how long it was a
00:09:03
pre-recorded interview so um how long
00:09:05
before the 30th of January was it
00:09:06
recorded So we recorded on the Monday
00:09:09
morning the 30th of January that night
00:09:12
all right so you didn't have like weeks
00:09:13
to a certain no to tune over okay
00:09:16
straight away and there was a couple of
00:09:19
thoughts behind that one was I think uh
00:09:23
Hillary and that didn't want it leaking
00:09:25
um we had to keep it you know very
00:09:28
secret from a lot of avenues and it was
00:09:31
just going to be coming straight away
00:09:32
bang bang so it sounds like it was like
00:09:34
the worst kept secret you said some
00:09:36
media had been sort of handling the NZ
00:09:37
are you for years yeah so you
00:09:39
it's a strange thing is that because uh
00:09:42
like um I used to work with a guy called
00:09:43
Mike Peru who uh we worked together and
00:09:44
did a brick show for years and years and
00:09:46
years and he like he he came out on the
00:09:49
year one day
00:09:50
um
00:09:51
but he I mean he wasn't really in the
00:09:52
closet before that anyway and the
00:09:54
respect that his family knew his friends
00:09:56
knew all his workmates knew but he just
00:09:58
had that final step to like I suppose be
00:10:01
honest with his radio audience sounds
00:10:02
like it was sort of the same with you
00:10:03
yeah exactly I mean for me it was like
00:10:05
the final step just to have closure you
00:10:07
know you no longer have that
00:10:09
Cloud hanging over your head even though
00:10:12
your family your friends your teammates
00:10:13
everyone knows and there's all old news
00:10:15
but just uh you know laid a rest of that
00:10:18
final piece and it and it does give you
00:10:21
yourself peace you feel lighter yeah you
00:10:24
do you know you have final closure on
00:10:26
the matter and and the other thing it
00:10:28
was you know we can possibly help people
00:10:31
and even when we did we talked and even
00:10:33
if it was just helping one person you
00:10:35
know then it's it's been rewarding and
00:10:37
but the real sense of it it's actually
00:10:39
helped a lot of people by all the
00:10:41
messages and and and uh and that that
00:10:43
I've received from people who you know
00:10:46
who've left the game of rugby or left a
00:10:49
sport because they didn't feel included
00:10:51
or they didn't feel that they were a
00:10:53
part of it because they struggled with
00:10:54
their sexuality
00:10:56
um now they're actually looking thinking
00:10:58
to come back into that support into that
00:11:00
sport either as a a fan or a spectator
00:11:04
but or you know getting back involved in
00:11:06
actually playing that sport which is
00:11:08
really cool and it's something really
00:11:10
rewarding for um everyone you know if
00:11:12
people are considering to come back into
00:11:14
sport 100 so
00:11:17
so The Story Goes to here you're sitting
00:11:19
at home watching it with your partner uh
00:11:21
who else you have like a room full of
00:11:23
people or no just the two of you no so
00:11:25
we um how are you feeling you're
00:11:26
[ __ ] yourself
00:11:28
um no no no I wasn't I wasn't really I
00:11:31
was I mean because Hillary just made it
00:11:32
so easy like that was the beauty of it
00:11:35
yeah but that's one thing you do the
00:11:36
interview with Hillary but then it's
00:11:37
like okay it's time for it to go to
00:11:38
where and now everyone's gonna see it
00:11:41
yeah yeah no um so we were just in in
00:11:44
the hotel room in Christchurch we
00:11:46
watched the interview and yeah it was
00:11:50
like okay I sort of probably head under
00:11:52
the bed while the interview went and
00:11:54
then uh yeah and then um then we went
00:11:57
out and had a couple of drinks with um a
00:11:59
few friends
00:12:00
um that we'd organized and that and um
00:12:02
yeah that was it really and yeah then
00:12:05
then what your phone's blowing up
00:12:07
um yeah like like what yeah I mean yeah
00:12:10
like what happened that evening
00:12:12
obviously you felt different yourself
00:12:14
like it's a massive sort of weight off
00:12:15
your shoulders
00:12:17
um but what was like the external
00:12:18
reaction like
00:12:19
um the external reaction was was
00:12:20
incredible like the the
00:12:22
um it spread around the world like
00:12:24
wildfire like the phone was just um you
00:12:27
know pinging
00:12:28
all day all night just keep non-stop of
00:12:31
people you know once you know when
00:12:34
Europe woke up and was seeing the story
00:12:36
because like I'm the guardian I'm
00:12:38
thinking yeah because the um all the
00:12:39
media Outlets this Ram what they're like
00:12:41
BBC CNN I mean and for me like I
00:12:44
honestly I didn't really think it would
00:12:47
spread that far I was probably again
00:12:49
naive I thought maybe would we'd hit the
00:12:52
New Zealand Public in a mass and then
00:12:55
maybe on a greater International sense
00:12:57
we might hit the Australian rugby public
00:12:59
I thought that may have you know that
00:13:01
would have been about it but it wasn't
00:13:03
and um and funny enough Rob and Joe they
00:13:07
both knew it was going to go Wildfire
00:13:10
but they didn't tell me that and they
00:13:12
just uh just told me that yeah when I
00:13:14
said oh we might just do New Zealand and
00:13:16
they're like yeah yeah you might no such
00:13:18
thing anymore right yeah yeah they're
00:13:21
like this kid has no idea Campbell
00:13:24
hasn't heard of the internet and well
00:13:26
and the other thing is because I'm I've
00:13:27
always been naturally quite
00:13:29
and reserved person that they probably
00:13:33
knew if they told me that it was going
00:13:35
to go like that that I I'd probably run
00:13:38
for the hills and hide again yeah do you
00:13:40
think um
00:13:41
I mean obviously it's been like a
00:13:43
positive reaction and there's been so
00:13:44
much love and so much support and and
00:13:46
all of that but if they said to you it's
00:13:48
going to be massive it's everyone around
00:13:50
the world's going to know about it and
00:13:51
people are going to reach out from you
00:13:52
that you don't know from a bar or so do
00:13:54
you think you would have maybe not done
00:13:55
it
00:13:56
um no I I joke about that but um I I
00:13:58
still would have um because I was you
00:14:01
know I'd made made my mind up um we had
00:14:04
talked I talked with my partner and
00:14:06
everything and we we were very happy to
00:14:08
do it and um I had the strong belief and
00:14:10
I said to Joe and Rob you know we we
00:14:13
don't want to just open the door and
00:14:15
then walk away and we want to open the
00:14:18
door and stand by it and and that's how
00:14:20
we're going to get real traction to help
00:14:21
people by standing by there and and and
00:14:24
and supporting people as they as as they
00:14:27
need or just yeah getting out there and
00:14:30
did you did you hear from any old
00:14:31
teammates yeah yeah I hear from a lot of
00:14:34
them I mean they all do they know yeah a
00:14:36
lot of them knew so they're all just and
00:14:38
the more the things I heard from them
00:14:40
was message of support and just comments
00:14:43
and you know like they they know how
00:14:45
private I am and things like that and
00:14:47
they just would say like you know well
00:14:49
done it's a really good move you've done
00:14:51
well and um yeah considering how private
00:14:54
you are and yeah so that was that was
00:14:56
nice yeah yeah why why are you so
00:14:59
private is it just how you've been do
00:15:01
you think of changes you got older and
00:15:02
more comfortable in your own skin no I
00:15:05
think I still still am pretty reserved
00:15:08
and pretty private um
00:15:10
um I guess yeah I guess I just grew up
00:15:13
in the you know strange danger situation
00:15:16
Paris has brought me out well to be a
00:15:18
stranger don't you keep away from people
00:15:20
um yeah and I've always been very
00:15:22
reserved and very quiet
00:15:24
um but I think yeah once I get talking
00:15:27
and that I open up a bit more yeah I
00:15:30
know well I've given that you're I'm a
00:15:32
private guy I do appreciate you coming
00:15:33
on the podcast today no no that's quite
00:15:35
all right it's good it's awesome and did
00:15:37
um yeah I know I appreciate it because
00:15:39
like as you said like from doing the TV
00:15:40
thing and from doing things like this oh
00:15:42
by the way I promise that I I said to
00:15:44
myself this morning I said oh maybe a
00:15:46
third maximum will be about the
00:15:47
sexuality because you're so much more
00:15:49
than just that but it's real fascinating
00:15:50
stuff yeah that's all right you just ask
00:15:52
what you like okay good and again if
00:15:54
it's a dumb question tell me it's a dumb
00:15:56
question and we'll move on
00:15:57
um did any other um All Blacks past or
00:15:59
present reach out to tell you that
00:16:01
they're gay or by
00:16:03
um no no no
00:16:05
um because you went to an old boy Square
00:16:07
you went to Linda's Linden College yeah
00:16:09
and so what years were you there was it
00:16:11
in the 90s yeah so I was there
00:16:14
um it must have been 93 to 97 right yeah
00:16:18
exciting to I went to um Palmer's North
00:16:20
boys high uh in the very late 80s and
00:16:24
um I look back now and the homophobia
00:16:27
was rough like every day every day
00:16:29
someone would use the f word or the H
00:16:31
word yeah and I'm sure I look back now
00:16:33
and I'm sure I did it as well because
00:16:35
everyone did it it was just the go-to so
00:16:36
when I was at school there was say a
00:16:38
thousand boys there so
00:16:39
on a conservative side there'd be 50 gay
00:16:42
boys or you know maybe more likely 100
00:16:44
or 150 but not one person would ever
00:16:47
identify as being gay because it was
00:16:49
just like the homophobia was just that
00:16:51
Rife it would be oh yeah it'd be the
00:16:53
worst did you know then like at high
00:16:55
school age or yeah still yeah no no no I
00:16:57
I did I I reckon it was around about
00:17:00
when I was maybe 15. yeah you know like
00:17:04
um
00:17:04
yeah the example that sort of Springs me
00:17:06
here is I I remember friends and that
00:17:08
you know talking about how pretty or how
00:17:11
gorgeous these girls are and and and and
00:17:14
that and then in my head I'll be like
00:17:16
are they but I don't find that you know
00:17:20
yeah Pamela Anderson no no no I don't
00:17:22
see it it's not nice here
00:17:25
who was it for you because my co-host
00:17:28
that I mentioned before Mike pero
00:17:29
Instagram was like a David Hasselhoff
00:17:31
Baywatch thing he was like it was the
00:17:33
dudes in Baywatch that he was like oh
00:17:35
okay something's going on here is there
00:17:38
any like celebrities for you
00:17:41
[Laughter]
00:17:43
Baywatch is probably quite a um
00:17:47
you put it like
00:17:48
one
00:17:49
uh for a gay or Heathrow person to watch
00:17:53
it was quite yeah it's just a very
00:17:54
sexual show yeah anyone knows yeah yeah
00:17:57
exactly yeah I could watch it and take
00:17:59
from what you'd like so so you're um
00:18:01
your
00:18:02
um
00:18:03
who did you come out to first I was at
00:18:05
your parents yeah I gave it to my of
00:18:10
maybe when I was 22 23 around that age I
00:18:14
can't quite remember is that quite old I
00:18:17
feel like it's quite old by maybe
00:18:18
today's oh yeah
00:18:20
oh for today's standards has probably
00:18:22
was quite normal for back then was that
00:18:24
hard plucking up the courage to do that
00:18:27
um well I kind of made a
00:18:29
track in my mind uh decision in my mind
00:18:32
and I had two options I thought was
00:18:36
because I love rugby it was either a one
00:18:40
I stopped playing rugby or two I come
00:18:43
out because I had all this anxiety
00:18:44
anxiety building up and and then I
00:18:47
looked at it and was like well
00:18:49
number ones are gonna going to happen
00:18:51
because I love rugby too much so I'm not
00:18:53
going to stop playing rugby so I guess
00:18:54
I'm just going to have to tell someone
00:18:55
and so that was my thought process and
00:18:58
why I went and I just sat down at dinner
00:19:01
one night and told mum and dad and um it
00:19:04
was
00:19:05
um yeah it was quite I guess surreal
00:19:08
really it was almost like nothing had
00:19:10
happened and like just underwhelming for
00:19:12
you I'm guessing it took a lot of
00:19:13
courage to get to that moment yeah yeah
00:19:15
you were building it up in your mind to
00:19:16
be amazed yes you do you do you just
00:19:17
build up all this stuff which isn't
00:19:19
isn't really real it's this all in your
00:19:22
head and when you know when it comes to
00:19:24
the real stuff you know it's it's just a
00:19:27
bit of a bit of a bit of a letdown and
00:19:30
the best and the best way best way I was
00:19:33
like I just told them we run out of milk
00:19:35
and and go get some and then and I think
00:19:37
mothers always know and Mum was like oh
00:19:40
yeah okay
00:19:41
kind of new and I was like no you didn't
00:19:43
and your dad was he kind of the same oh
00:19:46
yeah yeah it did nothing nothing favors
00:19:48
faces him I'm very lucky that my parents
00:19:49
are very laid back and very very
00:19:52
grounded people and you know they just
00:19:55
carry on yeah oh that's so cool because
00:19:58
I have got some friends that um when
00:20:00
they tell their parents uh especially
00:20:02
one friend of mine that's quite
00:20:03
religious like his parents initial
00:20:04
reaction was like shock and horror and
00:20:06
they wanted to get the Bible to pray for
00:20:08
their son um but they thought out in
00:20:10
time yeah it often it just takes there's
00:20:13
an initial shock period and it takes
00:20:14
time yeah I think I think everyone doing
00:20:16
I think you've got to you know you've
00:20:17
you know when you do something like that
00:20:19
or you go for it I mean you've got to
00:20:21
also be prepared that you've got to give
00:20:23
time to for people to process the the
00:20:26
information you've given them I mean
00:20:27
some people proceeds quickly some people
00:20:30
process slowly and um and I think if
00:20:33
you're if you're aware and you give
00:20:36
people the the time and the space then
00:20:38
you know most people come to The Logical
00:20:40
conclusion
00:20:42
so you may want to tell me to piss off
00:20:45
for this one um your your early sexual
00:20:47
encounters guys or girls
00:20:49
uh
00:20:51
uh girls early
00:20:54
earlier or just like trying to sort of
00:20:55
convince yourself or trying to override
00:20:57
the oh I I guess just just
00:20:59
um just Towing the line really yeah you
00:21:01
know just trying to conform to that
00:21:03
Ideal World yeah yeah
00:21:08
that's a that's a that's a crazy thought
00:21:10
there I know it's a crazy thought
00:21:13
because it's like that that's the norm
00:21:15
so even though you you know in your in
00:21:17
your DNA it's not what you're into but
00:21:19
yeah you want to force yourself to be
00:21:21
into it yeah it's it's an interesting
00:21:23
one and I guess that's it's all apart
00:21:26
of experimenting and finding out and I
00:21:30
guess it's a part of also
00:21:32
um just clarifying and reassuring in
00:21:34
your mind that that it's it's it is what
00:21:38
it is what it is and it's and it's
00:21:39
definitely not that that you like and
00:21:41
it's the other space that you like I
00:21:44
mean yeah I think I think everyone
00:21:46
probably goes through that thought
00:21:48
process and and that that
00:21:50
um exploring you know on on numerous
00:21:53
occasions when they're going through it
00:21:55
yeah and um who did you have to look I'm
00:21:58
get I'm guessing like one of the the
00:22:00
only person I can think of that you'd
00:22:01
have to look up to like um like a hard
00:22:03
man in sport that was gay was Ian
00:22:05
Roberts you know the manly Sea Eagles
00:22:07
league player from the 90s yeah yeah I
00:22:10
mean was there anyone else anyone else
00:22:12
that you could identify with that was
00:22:13
like like gay and successful in a like a
00:22:16
contact sport yeah no no there was
00:22:19
anyone else I remember Gareth Thomas
00:22:22
came out there oh the worst guy rugby
00:22:25
guy but I can't remember when he came
00:22:27
out I can't remember the exact dates on
00:22:29
that but yeah Ian Roberts was it was a
00:22:31
big one
00:22:32
um yeah because he was a he was a he was
00:22:34
hard man no one he was uncompromising
00:22:36
yeah he was a badass yeah yeah
00:22:40
um so your your partner you've been with
00:22:42
for like a year and a half he's um
00:22:43
sitting in the other room just just
00:22:44
watching this
00:22:45
um how did you guys meet
00:22:48
um oh we met
00:22:49
a few years a few years ago
00:22:53
um at a bar in um in Cambridge
00:22:57
um and then we've been sort of friends
00:23:00
ever since
00:23:02
um and we've both lived overseas and um
00:23:05
you know we've lived overseas separately
00:23:07
in separate lives and and then and then
00:23:09
um both have come back and yeah that's
00:23:12
been history now both come back and sort
00:23:15
of picked things up really yeah it's
00:23:18
fantastic was was he part of the cat
00:23:19
like the obviously you discussed him you
00:23:21
know doing the seven sharp thing and
00:23:23
yeah yeah no no yeah he was a big
00:23:25
supportive yeah and and we talked about
00:23:28
that and talked about how we'd pursue it
00:23:30
and and um yeah and obviously that was a
00:23:32
part that we'd try and you know keep
00:23:35
private and and because you've got to
00:23:37
have some things private in this world
00:23:38
and that so yeah so but he's been really
00:23:40
supportive and um couldn't ask couldn't
00:23:42
ask you know anything more from from
00:23:44
someone yeah did you ever dabble in the
00:23:46
apps you ever go on Grindr or anything
00:23:48
like that I I think every
00:23:52
is
00:23:54
just one of these things
00:23:55
um yeah it's a it's an interesting app
00:23:58
did you ever like a type you know you
00:24:01
can they have like a list a selection
00:24:03
and you can take your type there's like
00:24:05
um beer twink discreet leather rugged
00:24:09
pause what's a pause do you know what a
00:24:10
pause is
00:24:13
but did you ever type
00:24:16
um I don't know
00:24:18
um I never I don't think you well
00:24:20
probably when I dabbled in was a few
00:24:22
years ago and I don't know if you could
00:24:24
I didn't have that yeah well maybe you
00:24:27
had to pay for that yeah maybe I'm on
00:24:30
premium yeah
00:24:31
all right well I have a very specific I
00:24:34
I've um I I I I think I'm 100
00:24:37
heterosexual but that was until
00:24:39
um uh winter of 2004 when um Dan Carter
00:24:42
did the jockey campaign
00:24:44
then I had some questions about my own
00:24:46
sexuality
00:24:48
um funny story about grinder is that um
00:24:51
I played for um in France I played for
00:24:54
uh Brits Barrett's Olympic the the bio
00:24:57
the the team in the top 14 and um two
00:25:01
years ago I think it's two years ago
00:25:03
they got a new um a New Jersey and short
00:25:06
sponsor and it's grinder so it's grinder
00:25:09
on their shorts and grinder on their
00:25:11
Jersey and
00:25:15
um and I got these um and I got Texas
00:25:18
from my friends that I played with and
00:25:20
veritz and the Remy mates like saying
00:25:22
what have you done
00:25:24
this was like a couple of years ago like
00:25:26
antiquesing like man you you'd have
00:25:29
loved to be there now you would have got
00:25:30
a free script and all this
00:25:32
premium subscription yes so um yeah uh
00:25:37
it's quite yeah it was quite funny see
00:25:39
that especially it's plastered on the
00:25:41
back of their shorts grinder oh how good
00:25:43
yo that's better than more FM on the on
00:25:45
the Crusaders shorts isn't it
00:25:48
um let's let's talk about your rugby
00:25:50
career so we were you like naturally
00:25:52
good or did you just work really hard
00:25:56
um I think it was probably it's probably
00:25:58
a combination of both but more so
00:26:00
probably more hard work really I mean
00:26:03
because I wasn't a big guy so I had to
00:26:06
um you know work hard to be big
00:26:09
um I wasn't wasn't the most skilled
00:26:11
person on the field so I kind of had to
00:26:14
find a position that that at the time
00:26:16
wasn't as
00:26:18
skill based as in
00:26:20
um
00:26:21
um you know with hand-eye coordination
00:26:23
but was more technical based and I found
00:26:27
I was able to um pick up technique and
00:26:29
and learn technical based things a lot
00:26:32
easier and and be able to strengthen my
00:26:35
game through scrummaging and things like
00:26:37
that that's that's interesting so are
00:26:39
you sort of saying you just had this um
00:26:41
like red hot burning desire to be a
00:26:42
really good rugby player and you ideally
00:26:45
you would have been like a I don't know
00:26:47
like a number 10 or something but you
00:26:49
didn't have the skill so you just made
00:26:50
yourself big so you could get in the
00:26:51
team somehow
00:26:54
basically I just had this um desire and
00:26:58
um people knew that like coaches knew
00:27:01
that all I wanted to do and and was play
00:27:03
the game my parents knew and like for
00:27:05
example my dad would um if I didn't get
00:27:08
a when I was younger if I if our games
00:27:11
were called off because of the rain or
00:27:13
something like that I was just you know
00:27:15
the worst kid to have in the house like
00:27:18
it's just denied me I'd hate to be
00:27:20
around me and so my dad would um he was
00:27:23
obviously frustrated and angry and was
00:27:24
like I've got to get this kid out of the
00:27:26
house and he would ring around friends
00:27:28
and other grades higher and say oh he
00:27:32
gone so-and-so do you need a player do
00:27:35
you need an extra one oh yeah you know
00:27:37
we could yep okay I'll bring him down
00:27:39
straight away and then he games on the
00:27:41
weekend when
00:27:44
they were not lucky
00:27:45
in um with the uh with the the um the
00:27:50
changing of position he's played number
00:27:52
eight and then first the thing coach at
00:27:55
linderson Grant Gilbert
00:27:57
and a polite way said that you know
00:27:58
you're not going to be tall enough and
00:28:00
you're probably not going to be big
00:28:01
enough to play number eight but and he
00:28:03
said and you you need a little bit of
00:28:05
work on your skills but basically if I
00:28:08
wasn't skillful enough to play number
00:28:09
eight he said um how about you try the
00:28:12
front row and uh he said that would be
00:28:14
probably something you'd enjoy and
00:28:16
handed me a a magazine that had done a
00:28:19
feature article on the prop Jason
00:28:21
Leonard who was a English prop and um he
00:28:25
was highly highly regarded as one of you
00:28:28
know one of the best props in the
00:28:29
business at the time and he had a big
00:28:32
article and and all these hints and
00:28:34
techniques and all that and so I read
00:28:36
that kind of back said yeah okay I'm
00:28:37
gonna do that and then just pursued it
00:28:40
that is amazing it's an it's an unsexy
00:28:43
position isn't it you do all you do all
00:28:46
the work and get zero Glory
00:28:48
it is it's a horrible horrible job being
00:28:52
a prop that's an amazing God you and me
00:28:54
are our chartered paths were very
00:28:56
different um uh I am I was made to play
00:29:00
like um Barefoot rugby when I was a kid
00:29:02
by my parents and I would just like we
00:29:05
were a religious family
00:29:06
um and I would like pray to Jesus on
00:29:08
Sunday morning that that they would they
00:29:11
can't we'd listen to the cancellations
00:29:12
on the radio and I'd pray that it'd be
00:29:13
canceled so I could stay at home in
00:29:14
front of a guest eater and watch what
00:29:16
now
00:29:21
you know I just I I hated it I had
00:29:23
Pockets with shorts on mum the coach got
00:29:25
mum to sew them up because I was so cold
00:29:27
I'd have my hands on my pockets you and
00:29:29
me very very different upbringings okay
00:29:32
so so we was at Hawke's Bay Hawke's Bay
00:29:34
you grew up
00:29:35
waipukurau out in the country
00:29:38
um once did so it was about half an hour
00:29:40
out of waipuk right did you know did you
00:29:42
know Israel dag and um
00:29:45
um is that Guilford I think he was from
00:29:46
that area as well yeah about the same
00:29:48
age as you no no they're a little bit
00:29:49
older but I I did know Israel a little
00:29:53
bit because he went to the same school
00:29:55
again to Linda's fun the same so we sort
00:29:57
of
00:29:58
um I he was well I was well out of
00:30:01
school by then but we sort of crossed
00:30:03
paths on the few things in there and uh
00:30:04
yeah so um and Zach
00:30:07
um I he was coming into the um Crusaders
00:30:10
in Canterbury as a time I was just sort
00:30:12
of leaving so I said okay now I'm
00:30:15
through Hawke's Bay connections or
00:30:16
anything no no so so when did you start
00:30:18
like realizing you were really good and
00:30:20
the prop thing was going to work for you
00:30:23
um yeah that's a good question I'm not
00:30:25
too sure it's probably
00:30:29
um it was probably like when I displayed
00:30:32
the first of Dean and at school and then
00:30:36
made a few teams
00:30:37
and um yeah I was making rip teams as a
00:30:41
prop
00:30:42
um so yeah I sort of realizing ah yeah
00:30:45
okay so this is this is working out
00:30:48
um
00:30:49
but yeah yes that would have been you
00:30:51
know maybe at school and that that I
00:30:52
sort of thought this was going to
00:30:55
work out but but you know to be honest
00:30:57
like even if I didn't make teams I still
00:30:59
would have kept pursuing it because I
00:31:02
just had this I guess you call it a
00:31:04
pig-headed attitude that um I'm gonna
00:31:07
make this work no matter what yeah
00:31:09
that's amazing so
00:31:12
um I guess you love rugby that much even
00:31:15
if you couldn't make it to the
00:31:16
professional level you would have kept
00:31:17
playing it but what would you been do
00:31:19
what would you have been doing what was
00:31:20
Plan B
00:31:22
um
00:31:23
and so I didn't make rugby well I went
00:31:25
down I studied at Lincoln University
00:31:28
um and I did a b com and valuation and
00:31:30
Property Management you are way too
00:31:33
smart to be a problem
00:31:34
all parts of snow
00:31:37
yeah oh yeah you've got to defend your
00:31:40
type yeah yeah
00:31:42
um and then so I suppose I would be
00:31:44
pursuing would have pursued that a lot
00:31:46
more and um if not that then maybe
00:31:50
um uh sit on a previous podcast and
00:31:53
maybe I'd be working on some fishing
00:31:55
charters doing some fishing charters
00:31:57
taking people deep sea fishing sounds
00:31:58
like a pretty good job that doesn't
00:32:00
sound like a bad job isn't that what Cal
00:32:01
heyman's doing could be yeah he's doing
00:32:04
something like that
00:32:05
um all right so so you when did you so
00:32:07
um you're in the Crusaders first was
00:32:09
that the first what was the case
00:32:11
yeah so that was there oh so that was
00:32:14
when you were still studying at Lincoln
00:32:15
uh yeah I was coming to the end of my uh
00:32:18
my degree it was around I was 21 so I
00:32:21
was just finishing up maybe graduating
00:32:23
yeah maybe maybe half a year or
00:32:25
something to fix up yeah so what year
00:32:27
was what year was that that you first
00:32:28
made Canterbury uh 21 or 22 around there
00:32:32
uh no no 2001 and 2002 so okay so who
00:32:36
who was the coach and who are you
00:32:38
playing was it Robbie Dean's no
00:32:40
um so the first coach of Canterbury was
00:32:47
was I think it was Aussie McLean
00:32:50
and I think in mallard
00:32:53
and then also I think Rob Penny I can't
00:32:57
remember it was a combination of those
00:32:59
three it was definitely Rob penny for
00:33:01
the remainder of my time with Canterbury
00:33:03
and then with the Crusaders was
00:33:07
um Robbie Dean's
00:33:08
and um and that you was I think it was
00:33:12
Don Hayes right and then Don Hayes
00:33:16
moved on and then Vern Cotter came in
00:33:20
and was there for the three or four
00:33:22
years and then I think Mark Hammett was
00:33:25
my last year and Robbie Deans was the
00:33:27
constant
00:33:28
yeah how was that how influential was he
00:33:30
on your career he was awesome like
00:33:32
Robbie's a
00:33:34
awesome coach he has he had an amazing
00:33:36
ability of bringing a team together like
00:33:38
creating a culture theming of a team and
00:33:41
just getting everyone on the same page
00:33:43
and everyone working towards the same
00:33:45
goal
00:33:46
um so yeah no he's he was yeah he was
00:33:49
incredible why why um what happened with
00:33:51
him in Australia why why did he suck so
00:33:54
much over there was that intentional in
00:33:56
his part do you think maybe maybe it was
00:33:58
a teacher
00:33:59
yeah he's just a loyal guy
00:34:02
um no I I don't I don't know and all I
00:34:07
can
00:34:07
look at is that it
00:34:10
was a combination because if you always
00:34:11
look at the Australian super teams their
00:34:14
super teams actually do quite well and
00:34:16
they've got really good players but for
00:34:18
some reason when you put them all
00:34:20
together in the Australian team they
00:34:22
they just don't it doesn't seem like
00:34:25
they gel together very well not as
00:34:27
cohesive yeah which is it's kind of
00:34:29
bizarre I
00:34:30
don't know yeah
00:34:33
yeah tough tough tough time for Robbie
00:34:35
and a tough gig to do but you know oh
00:34:38
and I remember at the time it was um the
00:34:40
media made it out to be this like a huge
00:34:42
Grudge Match like um Ted versus Robbie
00:34:44
didn't they it was like one coach
00:34:46
against the other yeah which must have
00:34:47
been incredibly stressful for both of
00:34:49
them oh exactly I mean his you know
00:34:51
Robbie pursuing a
00:34:58
afternoon it wasn't given the
00:35:01
opportunity with the All Blacks so we
00:35:03
took another International job you know
00:35:04
which is you know everyone in their in
00:35:07
their own Fields always want to pursue
00:35:09
higher honors and pursue you know more
00:35:11
challenges
00:35:12
um so yeah you just have to let people
00:35:15
do that it's like players when they go
00:35:16
overseas they more or less want to go
00:35:19
because they um you know need a new
00:35:21
challenge neither your refreshing start
00:35:23
or you know or they want one to um you
00:35:26
know just test test the waters in
00:35:29
another competition so did you play did
00:35:32
you play with Scott razor Robertson was
00:35:34
it did your careers overlap or was he
00:35:35
before yeah
00:35:36
left and out in my in his last year or
00:35:41
two years and then and when I was
00:35:43
starting yeah right how was he what was
00:35:46
he like because you see him now as a
00:35:47
coach and that I know the break dancing
00:35:49
thing he keeps to a minimum now and I
00:35:51
really hope he doesn't lose that when he
00:35:53
you know it's the the all black coach
00:35:55
because I think it's I think it's
00:35:56
wonderful and beautiful I know there's
00:35:57
some old purists that you'll hear on
00:35:59
TalkBack that you know say that he's not
00:36:01
fit to be a coach for that reason which
00:36:02
is just dumb yeah so I can't imagine how
00:36:05
much fun he was as a player yeah no he
00:36:07
was a great guy like he's all that
00:36:08
energy that you see with him um with his
00:36:12
team and that you know as a player you
00:36:14
could probably times that by 20 when he
00:36:17
was a player he'd just so much energy
00:36:18
and so much you know life about him and
00:36:21
just so positive
00:36:23
um it's just yeah it's just incredible
00:36:25
and I I think it's a great opportunity
00:36:27
and it's a great way that maybe New
00:36:31
Zealand Rugby and rugby public we can we
00:36:34
can you know maybe put some life into
00:36:37
the press press conferences after the
00:36:39
games unique character isn't it and um
00:36:42
and the other thing is like I'm I'm
00:36:43
actually really happy for Scott and um
00:36:45
because the other thing is is how hard
00:36:48
he has worked to get where he has like I
00:36:51
don't think many people know like he
00:36:52
would he would be he coached some of the
00:36:55
Rugby Club in um Christchurch for many
00:36:58
years and he just learned his at the
00:37:00
trade of coaching and turned up and
00:37:02
helped schools and he and he um helped
00:37:05
the Canterbury team with tackling and
00:37:07
that all in positions that you know
00:37:09
weren't paid he was just giving up his
00:37:11
time to just just perfect his skill and
00:37:13
his ability and to pursue a you know a
00:37:16
dream that he wanted was to you know be
00:37:18
a professional coach and to be coaching
00:37:20
the Crusaders and and where he is now so
00:37:23
you know it's it's it's just awesome to
00:37:26
see his
00:37:27
dream and goals through hard work he's
00:37:29
achieved it do you have any um old
00:37:32
memories about him that you're able to
00:37:33
share is there anything that Springs to
00:37:35
mind no no you're closing ranks I reckon
00:37:38
you've got something you're just not
00:37:40
sharing it no I don't have anything
00:37:43
you've always got to be careful when you
00:37:45
share things because others have
00:37:46
information oh yeah yeah yeah yeah it's
00:37:49
an exchange
00:37:51
okay so you so you're um then separate
00:37:54
you're in Canterbury and then the super
00:37:55
broke how many Super Rugby titles did
00:37:57
you win uh three right yeah incredible
00:38:01
hmm yeah what's that like winning your
00:38:04
first Super Rugby title yeah it's pretty
00:38:05
good it's pretty cool like um yeah it's
00:38:10
it's an awesome feeling
00:38:12
um yeah especially because you're you
00:38:13
know you're doing something that all
00:38:14
your teammates and you have all brought
00:38:16
into you've all bought into the same
00:38:18
idea you know we've all been on the same
00:38:20
path the same you know the same road
00:38:22
you've gone through all the strain same
00:38:23
struggles you know the pre-season the
00:38:26
you know the uh the trainings you know
00:38:29
everything you've experienced highs and
00:38:31
lows and then you finally come out on
00:38:32
top so um yeah it's really awesome yeah
00:38:36
because your your career has overlapped
00:38:38
with some of the best New Zealand Rugby
00:38:40
players that we've we've ever seen you
00:38:42
played with Dan and Richie as well yeah
00:38:43
yeah no I was very lucky to um play with
00:38:46
so many good players and so many
00:38:48
skillful players and that's it's funny
00:38:49
because you play with good players and
00:38:52
they you know they make you look good
00:38:55
yeah so so you that must have been early
00:38:57
in Rich's career or sort of in the
00:38:59
middle of his career he's in the same
00:39:00
like Richie he was
00:39:02
you know around the same age so it was
00:39:04
um yeah around the same age we played
00:39:06
age grade together as well under 19s and
00:39:09
Colts and he's in under 21s as well so
00:39:12
um yeah all in the same same age group
00:39:14
I'm not even going to ask you if you've
00:39:15
got any Richie stories because
00:39:17
I I think I saw this and maybe this was
00:39:20
in his movie Chasing great or maybe it
00:39:22
was in the Dan Carter movie but Dan was
00:39:25
then said somewhere on the record that
00:39:26
the only conversations he ever had with
00:39:28
Richie when they were in the All Blacks
00:39:30
together were rugby related he was like
00:39:33
that hyper fixated on his job as Captain
00:39:35
and the job in hand was that your
00:39:38
experience with Richie I yeah no he was
00:39:40
um yeah he's super focused and and you
00:39:42
know and and such a role model such a
00:39:46
leader that um you can only but you only
00:39:49
you only can be in inspired and
00:39:51
motivated by him
00:39:53
um yeah so yeah he's a really amazing
00:39:56
guy
00:39:57
yeah incredible one of the best right
00:39:59
yeah and in terms of like how I'm
00:40:00
staying fit after Korea like you and him
00:40:03
are probably two of the fittest right in
00:40:05
terms of like like trimming down and uh
00:40:07
looking like Shadows of your former self
00:40:10
um yeah no I I I'd say he'd be a lot
00:40:12
fitter than me he's out doing adventure
00:40:14
running and racing and all that um you
00:40:16
know I don't I don't tend to get out and
00:40:18
do that too much what do you do these
00:40:20
days what are you doing to keep in shape
00:40:21
looks like you hit the gym a little bit
00:40:22
I do yeah a little bit of gym
00:40:25
um yeah that's that's that's really
00:40:27
about it and then um just don't eat so
00:40:30
much
00:40:32
to be a problem you have to eat a lot of
00:40:34
food yeah yeah
00:40:36
um well especially for me it was an
00:40:37
incredible amount of food like I used to
00:40:40
have to sit in the
00:40:41
um an alarm at midnight and have a and
00:40:44
drink a protein shake in the you know in
00:40:46
the middle of the night just to try and
00:40:48
keep the weight we're in like on on game
00:40:49
week or just all every day
00:40:51
like
00:40:53
actually yeah I didn't I didn't go out
00:40:57
to the kitchen and use the blender and
00:40:59
blend it up and wake up the whole house
00:41:00
oh you had it made and sitting next to
00:41:03
the bed or yeah you still take protein
00:41:05
now uh yeah a little bit just after
00:41:07
German there but uh not too much I've
00:41:09
sort of drifted away from eating so much
00:41:12
it's uh yeah it's been quite relaxing
00:41:14
not even to uh
00:41:16
shove food into your mouth every two
00:41:18
hours oh I bet I'm not sure what you
00:41:20
take now but Radix nutrition do some of
00:41:23
the best proteins on the on the market
00:41:24
and I highly swear by the banana and the
00:41:27
coconut flavor in particular I'll tell
00:41:28
you what we'll get you some thank you
00:41:30
thank you they sponsored the podcast so
00:41:32
yeah so what does an average day look
00:41:34
like when you're when you're a prop in
00:41:35
terms of diet so protein shake at
00:41:37
midnight well
00:41:39
we probably started
00:41:41
yeah the breakfast I used to start with
00:41:44
um oatmeal porridge
00:41:46
and two boiled eggs
00:41:49
and a protein shake and then go after
00:41:52
training then at training we've got
00:41:54
snacks throughout the day throughout the
00:41:57
training morning so you've got you
00:41:58
probably have another protein shake in
00:42:01
there as well plus plus
00:42:03
um some tuna and crackers I think is
00:42:05
always there and then
00:42:09
um
00:42:10
via lunch
00:42:13
um there'll be chicken or some sort of
00:42:15
protein made to end with some carbs and
00:42:18
then there'd probably be another Shake
00:42:19
just to add another level to it and then
00:42:23
um
00:42:24
another
00:42:26
snack in the afternoon
00:42:28
and then dinner
00:42:31
God I'm exhausted I feel sick just
00:42:34
hearing another snack before bed and be
00:42:37
in bed and then wake up and have a
00:42:39
protein shake oh my God that's awful so
00:42:42
so who are you flirting with at the time
00:42:44
uh Karen Reid mentioned you were
00:42:45
fighting with Scott
00:42:46
um Scott Hamilton yeah so that would
00:42:48
have been
00:42:51
2002 it was Scott Hamilton and um big uh
00:42:55
Kevin O'Neill Kevin O'Neill was a
00:42:57
crusader lock and and all black
00:43:00
um yeah we used the NutriBullet must
00:43:02
have been getting a workout in that
00:43:04
plant
00:43:05
yeah yeah it was amazing okay and then
00:43:09
um so
00:43:10
um how many did we decide three three
00:43:12
Super Rugby titles which is phenomenal
00:43:14
and then um the all black career all
00:43:16
black number 1056 yeah and again as I
00:43:20
said before when I went to boys High um
00:43:22
about a thousand boys there
00:43:24
apparently zero boys were gay at that
00:43:27
time so the All Blacks as well you'd
00:43:28
have to assume out of you know your the
00:43:31
first to come out openly as gay at
00:43:33
number 1056 but there must have been
00:43:34
many many more before then but for
00:43:37
whatever reason well yeah but the time
00:43:39
wasn't right statistics are an
00:43:40
interesting thing but you know you can't
00:43:43
hang your hat on them I mean yeah it
00:43:45
could have been a you know you could I
00:43:46
could it might not have been one you
00:43:49
know they might not they might not keep
00:43:51
tomorrow not continued playing the sport
00:43:53
or something like that yeah that's true
00:43:54
you know reality
00:43:57
um yeah it could be only one but um
00:43:59
as you said statistically speaking not
00:44:02
true it might be me yeah and so um do
00:44:06
you remember that moment like we are you
00:44:07
in the all black frame like hey do you
00:44:10
feel like you're a you're a shot when
00:44:12
this election's announced how does that
00:44:13
happen what's that moment must be a
00:44:14
bloody special moment yeah yeah it was
00:44:16
so it was in Napier and we just um done
00:44:19
the all black trial you know I think it
00:44:21
was the possible exist the probables
00:44:22
that's right back in the day yeah so
00:44:25
that was back in 2005
00:44:28
and we'd done the trial match I remember
00:44:30
coming off the the game thinking oh yeah
00:44:32
no I ran around had a I thought I'd had
00:44:35
a pretty good game and um who were you
00:44:39
marking who was your opposite
00:44:41
I was like giving me a lovely maybe no I
00:44:44
would keep no I think Kevin no Kevin was
00:44:46
in my in my team he was the hooker for
00:44:48
the team and I was rooming with Kevin
00:44:50
actually
00:44:52
yeah and yeah I've roomed with them that
00:44:54
um that whole week I think and then I
00:44:58
think
00:44:59
so it might have been Carl Hof came on
00:45:01
and said I can't remember who was
00:45:03
and it's all quite a blur but um the um
00:45:07
the naming was um after after the game
00:45:10
all the players are in the from both
00:45:12
teams are in a room and the
00:45:15
um they name the team the all black
00:45:18
Squad to the players oh immediately
00:45:21
afterwards yeah it was like three out of
00:45:23
two hours like you had something to eat
00:45:25
and you went back to hotels or all the
00:45:27
air and they were all gathered and then
00:45:28
they just named the team it must be
00:45:29
around about I don't know 11 and a half
00:45:31
past 11 at night and they said look this
00:45:34
is you know this Squad and these are the
00:45:36
people who are going to Auckland for the
00:45:38
to prepare the rest you will be going to
00:45:41
your your home destinations it's like an
00:45:44
episode of X Factor isn't it yeah yeah
00:45:45
it is and um and you know we're not
00:45:49
publicly announcing it until tomorrow so
00:45:51
don't say the media or anyone but you
00:45:53
can tell your loved ones and that so
00:45:54
yeah that was how that happened was that
00:45:57
sort of pre-social must have been
00:45:58
pre-social media I feel like they
00:45:59
wouldn't have that sort of level of
00:46:00
trust now no no way yeah there's no one
00:46:02
you know no one's Snapchatting at all
00:46:05
posting it on Instagram well so okay so
00:46:08
you find out there must be an exciting
00:46:09
moment and then
00:46:11
um what happened who do you tell who are
00:46:12
your loved ones that you tell well
00:46:14
because it was a Napier
00:46:16
um obviously my parents were because I
00:46:18
came from that my parents are there so I
00:46:19
I went and um went around to mum and
00:46:22
Dad's and and I and I told told them and
00:46:25
again it was just um it was almost like
00:46:28
I told them we'd uh run out of milk it
00:46:31
was just I just underwhelming again oh
00:46:33
my God what gets those people excited
00:46:37
uh yeah it was yeah mum was probably
00:46:40
more happier than dead and dead mum gave
00:46:43
me a you know a hug and and Dad
00:46:45
um famously he
00:46:47
um carried on talking about
00:46:50
um that I remember the topic because he
00:46:52
carried on talking about the the reason
00:46:53
why the Ducks aren't breeding down by
00:46:55
the by the ponds is because all these
00:46:58
people keep feeding them bread and and
00:47:00
Mum was like oh you know your son just
00:47:03
your son's just made you all blend it
00:47:04
was like yes yes
00:47:06
it's amazing as you did it is he a
00:47:10
farmer yeah okay it sounds like a farmer
00:47:12
it's hard to get them I'm impressed
00:47:13
about anything oh yeah I know he wasn't
00:47:15
he was impressed right and then but
00:47:18
actually when I talk about this to them
00:47:20
they they they they they claim that that
00:47:23
wasn't how it happened like no we heard
00:47:25
you we you know it was not like that we
00:47:28
were excited I was like oh yeah yeah
00:47:29
just like how I told you I was gay no we
00:47:33
were like that how many um you're you're
00:47:36
one of how many kids I've got two older
00:47:38
brothers and uh ones right and yet have
00:47:41
you seen your parents get like emotional
00:47:42
about in it like when your sister got
00:47:45
married I'm assuming she's got married
00:47:46
does your dad cry or does he have you
00:47:49
ever seen him show emotion
00:47:52
um but I think guys like like all I'm
00:47:53
basing this on is my uncle John who's a
00:47:55
Dairy Farmer like he was very very stoic
00:47:57
like the hardest man you could ever meet
00:47:59
but as he got older he got soft around
00:48:01
the edges and shows a bit of
00:48:02
vulnerability now oh yeah no no he's old
00:48:05
he's he's definitely shows a bit of
00:48:07
emotion now but when was the last time
00:48:08
he told you he loves you as an emotional
00:48:11
guy like that oh yeah
00:48:13
yeah but that even that um I mean
00:48:16
because we're a family we didn't really
00:48:17
say that and we always knew you know it
00:48:20
was always unspoken it was unspoken you
00:48:22
didn't have to but then and then um but
00:48:24
I think yeah mum always wanted us to say
00:48:27
it and then um one day I think
00:48:29
dad said it and then I said it back and
00:48:32
then I was like oh finally and I said
00:48:33
well Dad said
00:48:35
he said it first yeah maybe
00:48:40
is
00:48:47
[Laughter]
00:49:04
actions speak louder than words as they
00:49:06
say okay so so you make the All Blacks
00:49:09
um is your first test against uh Fiji or
00:49:11
the Lions yeah I've got a question to
00:49:13
ask you so you can't you you didn't
00:49:15
start you came on yes late in the game
00:49:17
how many minutes did you play
00:49:19
I think it came on for about
00:49:21
30 minutes okay all right okay so you
00:49:24
played almost half the game the All
00:49:26
Blacks won that game 91-0 how did you
00:49:28
manage to not score a try well I think
00:49:31
this comes back in the position I was
00:49:32
playing in a prop and uh the Greek some
00:49:34
of them and Kevin me allow me they
00:49:36
scored in that game yeah yeah yeah they
00:49:38
yeah they were gifted those tries
00:49:41
I think they helped set them up yeah so
00:49:44
what's um what's that like your first
00:49:46
all black game um
00:49:47
is your stomach churning are you like
00:49:50
yeah no it's um all I can sum it up is
00:49:53
this with what you know just pure
00:49:55
excitement for me it was just pure
00:49:56
excitement just you know here here was
00:49:58
the um the the um the black Jersey that
00:50:02
I'd um being wanting and striving for
00:50:05
for so long was just in my hands finally
00:50:07
in my hands you know and and as this
00:50:10
absolute excitement what's what's that
00:50:12
ritual you get the Jersey is it the day
00:50:15
before the morning of no I this one was
00:50:18
it was um hanging up in your locker as
00:50:21
you come in to the um stadium so when
00:50:24
you come into the stadium you see your
00:50:25
locker your um your number where you sit
00:50:28
and it's it's there yeah
00:50:31
and when you when you're not starting do
00:50:33
you do you get to go out and you get to
00:50:35
go and Sing the anthem you don't do the
00:50:36
Haka though
00:50:42
and put your tracksuit back on and sit
00:50:44
down are you and hindsight are you happy
00:50:46
with your hacker performance
00:50:48
um room for improvement yeah there's
00:50:50
always room through but it's got to be
00:50:52
the scariest thing like Rugby's rugby is
00:50:55
what you do and it's an instinct thing
00:50:56
right and you you've earned that spot
00:50:58
and you've earned the Jersey but then
00:51:00
you have to learn the Haka and I'm
00:51:01
guessing that doesn't necessarily come
00:51:03
naturally yeah well it's
00:51:07
knows the Haka and I did know
00:51:11
committee but for for the life of me and
00:51:15
why it had to be when I made the All
00:51:17
Blacks they decided to bring in the new
00:51:18
hacker and they had to learn a whole new
00:51:20
one so and I'm you know dancing in
00:51:24
coordination is not my best thing any
00:51:26
you know any given moment and so I had
00:51:29
my head right okay I've got comedy down
00:51:31
so we should be able to get through this
00:51:34
and next minute they go oh we're gonna
00:51:35
you learn a new one the cup of the name
00:51:39
of it is but we're going to do the new
00:51:41
Haka and we're all going to learn it and
00:51:42
I was just like oh no another thing to
00:51:46
learn any dance moves how am I gonna
00:51:48
learn this I'm watching it yeah they
00:51:50
hide you in the back somewhere yeah they
00:51:52
did you know we had these um Haka um
00:51:56
Haka trainings in there in the evenings
00:51:58
and that and then you know the not so
00:52:01
good kids had to stay behind and do
00:52:03
extras and then the not so goods from
00:52:05
that group had to do extras and then
00:52:07
size yeah I was running into the
00:52:09
midnight still learning
00:52:11
where is your roommate can you remember
00:52:12
who your roommate was for that Festival
00:52:14
that game
00:52:15
um yeah it was um Anton Oliver all right
00:52:18
right yeah well what and what are your
00:52:21
Recollections and memories from that
00:52:22
first sort of all black camper and that
00:52:24
first game
00:52:26
um
00:52:26
just yeah I was just excitement I mean
00:52:29
um it was just one of the most you know
00:52:32
intense intense trainings this is how
00:52:34
how intense training was like it would
00:52:37
go for like 40 minutes just so sharp
00:52:40
fast bang boom done on the bus you know
00:52:44
and just the the pressure not the
00:52:47
pressure but just the desire by everyone
00:52:49
to actually fine-tune their skills and
00:52:51
their ability so so they don't let the
00:52:54
team down or don't let your teammates
00:52:55
down yeah yeah it's just it's pretty
00:52:58
special yeah that's amazing who was
00:52:59
coach at the time was that Wayne Smith
00:53:01
no no uh Wayne Smith was here uh it was
00:53:04
um Graeme Henry and Wayne Smith Graham
00:53:06
Henry Steve Hansen right wow wow oh yeah
00:53:09
three of the goats yeah yeah
00:53:11
unbelievable and so it's okay so so back
00:53:15
then to do um do they know about your
00:53:17
sexuality do all the players know is it
00:53:19
like the an elephant in the room like
00:53:21
Looking Back Now is an elf in the room
00:53:22
sort of thing or does everyone know and
00:53:23
it's just unspoken yeah a few people
00:53:25
knew
00:53:26
um not probably not everyone yeah you
00:53:28
just confide in some people yeah just
00:53:30
confined some people and then people
00:53:31
just
00:53:32
keep private and then and to be honest
00:53:34
like that that environment just so
00:53:37
focused on the upcoming game and that
00:53:41
there's there's no time to think about
00:53:44
anything else it's just full-on rugby
00:53:48
which is awesome you know but um yeah
00:53:50
but there's just absolutely no time to
00:53:52
to dwell or you know you worry about
00:53:55
that yeah come on good for you yeah
00:53:57
learn the [ __ ] hacker yeah
00:54:01
Bingo don't even worry about that yeah
00:54:03
um you can so okay so you can find in
00:54:06
some people and they're fine with it
00:54:07
does
00:54:09
does does that not give you like the
00:54:11
comfort and security to think okay if I
00:54:13
if I come out now publicly it'll you
00:54:15
know everyone's going to be okay with it
00:54:17
no
00:54:18
um no not not for me because I was still
00:54:27
at the time
00:54:28
um and I still was uneasy about it you
00:54:32
know in my own self like I still wasn't
00:54:34
100
00:54:35
you know happy with me as that person so
00:54:40
to come out publicly would have been a
00:54:42
massive step that I probably wouldn't
00:54:46
have been able to do at the time did it
00:54:49
um take its toll on your mental health
00:54:50
over the years like hang on to the
00:54:52
secret or not really I touched upon
00:54:55
therapy before and you said you've never
00:54:56
done any therapy yeah no I don't think
00:54:59
it it did I I I kind of turned it into
00:55:03
more of a driving force
00:55:05
and the way that um if I had a bad game
00:55:09
I'd blame it on my gay side or it's
00:55:13
because I was gay I'd blame it that and
00:55:15
that would you know motivate me to train
00:55:17
harder so in a real strange sense it
00:55:19
became like a driving force behind me to
00:55:23
to um to achieve what I what I what I
00:55:26
wanted but as you all know that's that's
00:55:29
unhealthy yeah it's really unhealthy and
00:55:31
it's never going to end well you know
00:55:33
yeah it's like like running away from it
00:55:35
in a way yeah yeah so um so there's that
00:55:37
and that that would be why I decided to
00:55:42
um you know come out to a few people so
00:55:43
I could get that off and and clear that
00:55:45
up and move forward with it which is um
00:55:49
has been better yeah awesome because
00:55:51
there's a lot better ways to motivate
00:55:54
yourself
00:55:56
whatever works
00:55:58
no I know you're a self-loading not the
00:56:02
best way isn't it Richie didn't get to
00:56:03
140 I test myself loathing
00:56:06
um oh yes I think you have two other
00:56:07
tests against um the the British um uh
00:56:10
Alliance um so I'm Beijing in your and
00:56:13
you're all black career three games yeah
00:56:15
yeah what are you what are your
00:56:16
collections of those games
00:56:17
um the British and Iris Lions was
00:56:19
incredible like just the whole um
00:56:20
campaign was amazing
00:56:23
um is that when um Johnny Wilkinson was
00:56:25
in the tech what could someone's on the
00:56:26
table was like the best best player in
00:56:27
the world at the time yeah
00:56:31
and and it was the it was
00:56:34
it was I guess the litmus test for the
00:56:36
um New Zealand for hosting the World Cup
00:56:39
was to be able to see if we could handle
00:56:41
the infrastructures and systems and our
00:56:44
our stadiums could handle you know the
00:56:46
British and Irish lines would then that
00:56:48
you know help us to host the World Cup
00:56:51
yeah so it was it was it was really
00:56:53
really awesome like and the people that
00:56:55
came out from you know the United
00:56:57
Kingdom was incredible and then just
00:57:00
being able to test yourself in that um
00:57:02
in that field
00:57:04
um against you know the best of the
00:57:07
United Kingdom and and Ireland you know
00:57:09
as
00:57:10
um was um pretty special yeah absolutely
00:57:13
and the three jerseys um did you you
00:57:15
swap them or you still have them now
00:57:17
what have you done I still have them
00:57:19
yeah um they're at home um my parents
00:57:21
have them so um yeah yeah I didn't
00:57:24
framed framed on a wall or in a box
00:57:27
somewhere or
00:57:30
framed and it sits in the wardrobe what
00:57:33
do you mean in the wardrobes and the
00:57:35
closet
00:57:37
yeah it's not allowed to come out it'll
00:57:40
come out when it's gone already yeah is
00:57:42
taking his time
00:57:44
don't rush these things yeah yeah
00:57:49
um yeah and that's and the um the other
00:57:51
jerseys are in the um and a I think
00:57:54
they're on a chest I think yeah amazing
00:57:56
they mean something to you or yeah yeah
00:57:58
yeah
00:58:06
yeah
00:58:06
it's always nice to have a look and see
00:58:09
them and what do you think when you look
00:58:10
at them just like is it like a like a
00:58:12
[ __ ] here moment or a holy [ __ ] these
00:58:15
are mine yeah yeah it's just
00:58:18
you just sort of think about the time
00:58:20
and and how good it was and and um yeah
00:58:24
and how awesome you know the All Blacks
00:58:27
are in New Zealand Rugby and things like
00:58:29
that and yeah it's a pretty like I think
00:58:31
you were pretty fortunate pretty pretty
00:58:33
cool country it's really cool to hear
00:58:35
that they mean that much to you even
00:58:37
after all these years yeah
00:58:39
um so I suppose there's two ways of
00:58:40
looking at it you could you could think
00:58:42
I'm I'm bloody lucky because I had this
00:58:43
opportunity and I've got three all black
00:58:46
test jerseys or you could think I'm
00:58:48
unlucky because I've only got three all
00:58:50
black test users is there part of you
00:58:52
that thinks like that
00:58:54
um oh yeah they always will be alive
00:58:57
yeah yeah there's always that
00:58:59
um rig you know I just regret that you
00:59:02
that I didn't reset my goals that I
00:59:04
didn't um you know
00:59:06
um reset my goals to go to to stay and
00:59:09
and and and be a be a be a great all
00:59:11
black and and not just be happy to have
00:59:14
made it
00:59:15
um you know because I fell into that
00:59:16
trap of of you know probably complacency
00:59:19
I'd made the team and then I was like oh
00:59:22
team yep made it done cool good job
00:59:25
Daddy yeah yeah you went to sleep and
00:59:27
then you know next thing kids having a
00:59:29
conversation to you telling you that uh
00:59:31
you're not coming back next week wow
00:59:34
what did you play a bad game or no so it
00:59:37
was the end of the uh the lion series
00:59:39
and um they um have a meeting with in
00:59:43
had a meeting with me saying you know
00:59:45
these are the things we want you to go
00:59:47
away and work on we're building for a
00:59:50
World Cup and you know we want to
00:59:52
probably have a look at a few other
00:59:53
players but we need you to work on these
00:59:55
things I want you to go back to your
00:59:57
provincial Union and work on those and
00:59:59
we'll address it in the future yeah
01:00:02
right and you you went away and you you
01:00:04
didn't address the things or oh no yeah
01:00:06
you go away and try and address them
01:00:07
yeah and then um you know
01:00:09
um but here yeah and then it comes down
01:00:13
to the selector's choice and and that so
01:00:16
you do everything that's in your power
01:00:17
and but it's yeah um yes I heard um I
01:00:20
think it was an interview with um
01:00:22
um Beaver Stephen Donald
01:00:24
um and he talked about because you
01:00:25
mentioned the great all black thing and
01:00:26
he said oh when you become an all black
01:00:27
they they start drumming into you that
01:00:29
you you should strive to be a great all
01:00:31
black and he said the first time here
01:00:33
that he's looking around the room and he
01:00:34
sees Dan Carter and he sees Aaron cruden
01:00:36
and whoever else he goes well I'm [ __ ]
01:00:38
I'm never going to be a great all black
01:00:40
yeah that's a great all there yeah yeah
01:00:43
yeah yeah we have a lot to thank 100 we
01:00:47
do
01:00:48
um and so what's Graham Henry like is he
01:00:51
intimidating to be around it like when
01:00:52
he walks into the room do you find
01:00:54
yourself um you feel like a school boy
01:00:56
at school that's setting up for the
01:00:57
school principal or is he quite friendly
01:00:59
and um
01:01:00
he's very friendly very approachable and
01:01:03
um yeah
01:01:04
yeah
01:01:05
He commands respect when he comes into a
01:01:07
room and um and everyone you know
01:01:09
listens and and does what he what he
01:01:12
tells you but um he's a he's a great guy
01:01:14
yeah who would be you you have like a
01:01:17
best coach or a favorite coach through
01:01:18
your career who's been the most
01:01:20
influential
01:01:21
um
01:01:24
Robbie
01:01:31
Rob Kinney
01:01:33
um in Canterbury he was he was very um
01:01:35
influential in my career as as well
01:01:37
because he was also he was a forged
01:01:39
coach as well so he um yeah he helped me
01:01:42
a lot with just um General awareness
01:01:45
around the field and things like that so
01:01:48
um yeah I I actually think every every
01:01:51
coach I've I've had has had their own
01:01:55
um
01:01:57
um own bit of influence influence in in
01:02:01
my in my career and the way I played um
01:02:04
and because I think I was very fortunate
01:02:06
to have some you know countless amazing
01:02:09
coaches and and um they've all you know
01:02:13
influenced influenced the way I've
01:02:15
played and certain aspects um
01:02:18
um
01:02:18
um really well with me and and I've been
01:02:21
um you know lucky enough to be able to
01:02:24
to get that knowledge and being
01:02:27
fortunate enough to be able to absorb
01:02:29
that knowledge and take it on board yeah
01:02:31
and one thing people give you give you
01:02:34
the knowledge and that is the other
01:02:35
thing is to accept and take it on board
01:02:37
isn't it yeah I mean it's incredible
01:02:38
that like yeah you think the coaches
01:02:40
you've had and the players that you've
01:02:41
been surrounded by like some of the best
01:02:43
that the world has ever seen in the
01:02:45
sport yeah it's incredible yeah and
01:02:48
lucky and um outside of rugby like how
01:02:51
does the house the second half of your
01:02:52
life looking for you do you want to you
01:02:53
have to get married at some point
01:02:57
see how things go I guess
01:02:59
um you know see how things track along
01:03:03
um but yeah outside at the moment things
01:03:05
are going pretty well you know um lost
01:03:08
pretty good when
01:03:11
um what about a family at some point
01:03:12
obviously that comes with like you know
01:03:14
a set of hurdles and things yeah I
01:03:20
I've parked that much and um yeah not
01:03:23
too sure about that one never really
01:03:24
thought about that I mean um yeah I yeah
01:03:27
I've had fertility struggles so I can't
01:03:28
have kids of my own so yeah I always
01:03:30
sort of imagined that I'd have my own
01:03:33
family and then you know when it doesn't
01:03:34
happen you have to sort of reframe the
01:03:35
second part of your life but I suppose
01:03:37
um being a gay male maybe like you've
01:03:39
never even sort of like thought about
01:03:40
kids you just assumed it wouldn't be
01:03:42
part of the plan
01:03:43
um
01:03:48
out of my life I did assume that it
01:03:50
wouldn't be a part of the plan but
01:03:52
obviously you know the way the world is
01:03:55
now and there's so many different
01:03:57
Avenues you can explore with um you know
01:03:59
having kids whether it be adopting kids
01:04:02
or or so what you know I think there's
01:04:04
so many more um ways it can be possible
01:04:07
so yeah 100 and if anyone's listening to
01:04:10
this that's um like you know young or
01:04:13
youngish or actually actually even old
01:04:15
and sort of grappling with their
01:04:16
sexuality like they they know they're
01:04:18
gay and that they haven't told anyone
01:04:20
and they're not sure like how to go
01:04:21
about it like what would your message be
01:04:24
um my my message would be just pretty
01:04:27
much like it's um there's no there's no
01:04:29
rules or there's no law about coming out
01:04:32
like you don't have to if you don't if
01:04:35
you don't feel it's right then you don't
01:04:36
have to do it but if you feel like you
01:04:39
you need to do it because you're you're
01:04:41
under anxiety or stress
01:04:43
um then then then look around and and
01:04:46
find you know someone that you think is
01:04:48
safe or someone you can confide in and
01:04:51
even if it's just telling that that one
01:04:53
person that one person might be enough
01:04:55
for you and if that's all you tell and
01:04:57
and for the rest of your life then
01:04:58
that's fine that's your decision but if
01:05:00
you want to pursue and tell more people
01:05:02
then um yeah Do It um and always make
01:05:06
sure it's on your terms and and and and
01:05:09
your best interest not on what other
01:05:12
people want or if other people are
01:05:13
pushing you yeah yeah has everything
01:05:15
been done on your tips yeah yeah yeah in
01:05:18
in hindsight like things have played out
01:05:20
pretty good would you have done anything
01:05:21
different if you could rewind the clock
01:05:24
um no no I don't know I don't I don't
01:05:27
think so
01:05:28
it's all just yes
01:05:30
you know it kind of is what it is and
01:05:33
it's all been taken with such um
01:05:36
um so that's
01:05:37
such love and respect and and and and
01:05:40
support has just been phenomenal so um
01:05:43
yeah I don't think I don't think we
01:05:45
could have even painted you know
01:05:48
described a scenario or mapped it out
01:05:51
like this so it's it's been really um
01:05:53
humbling yeah has there been any sort of
01:05:56
negativity or anything
01:05:58
um not that I can recall I mean there's
01:06:00
always there's always some need of it
01:06:02
but you'd have to be you'd have to be a
01:06:04
special sort of person though wouldn't
01:06:05
you yeah but you know and
01:06:18
yeah people have the
01:06:19
and it comes down to timing as well like
01:06:22
yeah process things and
01:06:24
and that so oh are you just sorry just
01:06:27
like yeah just an afterthought so yeah
01:06:29
what we what were your thoughts or what
01:06:31
was going through your mind a couple of
01:06:32
years ago when the um Israel for loud
01:06:33
stuff was going on
01:06:36
yeah I can't really remember that with
01:06:39
that what was going on because I was in
01:06:42
um I was in Europe so it didn't really I
01:06:44
remember a friend text me something
01:06:45
about it but um yeah it's I suppose if
01:06:48
you missed the whole news cycle here
01:06:50
yeah yeah so but you know that's
01:06:53
um yeah it's people's
01:06:56
uh it's people's opinions and that which
01:06:58
were you know we kind of always going to
01:07:01
have so that's just what it what is yeah
01:07:05
kind of I like it you're kind you're so
01:07:07
cruisy about these things eh like
01:07:09
there's there's a lot of a lot of other
01:07:10
people myself included they'd be more
01:07:12
outraged on your behalf like for anyone
01:07:14
that's got like a negative reaction to
01:07:16
it because it's like why do you [ __ ]
01:07:17
care
01:07:18
yeah but you know you
01:07:21
can focus on that one person we can
01:07:23
focus on the 100 or 200 other great
01:07:26
messages and support and stories that
01:07:28
people tell you I mean for me it's it's
01:07:30
so much easier to go through a hundred
01:07:34
great messages and reply to 100 messages
01:07:36
data from about support then sit down
01:07:39
and reply to one about there's been
01:07:41
negative so I don't even it doesn't even
01:07:43
cross my mind even look at that yeah but
01:07:45
it's as no human nature that it's the
01:07:47
negative one that jumps out from the
01:07:48
page
01:07:50
um I sort of find that along with
01:07:51
comments on my Instagram feed it's like
01:07:53
nice message nice message nice pictures
01:07:54
mean message and it's like what and then
01:07:57
suddenly I'm stalking their profile and
01:08:00
yeah well yeah I
01:08:02
for me no
01:08:04
no I mean and I I'm a little bit wide
01:08:06
the other way I see like a negative
01:08:08
messages like well we really are trying
01:08:10
we really are reaching people like if
01:08:13
they've taken their time and it's
01:08:15
something they're not interested in and
01:08:16
they've taken the time to put a post up
01:08:18
then we've really made it we've really
01:08:21
made it this is good yeah just keep
01:08:24
going and were there any um out of the
01:08:27
thousands of messages of love and
01:08:29
support that you got after doing the
01:08:30
seven sharp thing with it like any
01:08:31
messages that like stand out in a sort
01:08:33
of like imprinted in your in your mind
01:08:35
that they had that sort of impact on you
01:08:37
um yeah there were a few and and the
01:08:39
main
01:08:40
um underlining tone of those messages
01:08:42
were people that um had stopped playing
01:08:46
a sport that they loved and and and and
01:08:48
were really passionate about for the
01:08:51
reasons that they didn't feel safe they
01:08:52
didn't feel accepted in that Sport and
01:08:55
and their message their their you know
01:08:57
story was that now after my coming out
01:09:02
and my story it's given them you know um
01:09:05
a little bit of Faith back into Sport
01:09:08
and they're actually going to look at
01:09:10
maybe watching it and becoming a fan
01:09:12
again of that sport or even
01:09:14
participating again and that's really
01:09:16
cool to see that people actually now
01:09:18
thinking oh okay you know I left a sport
01:09:20
that I loved and enjoyed so much because
01:09:23
of my sexuality but now I think I can go
01:09:26
back to it and and and and really start
01:09:28
enjoying it again and that's something
01:09:30
pretty cool oh it's powerful stuff do
01:09:32
you hope we get to the point in your
01:09:33
lifetime where people don't even have to
01:09:36
come out
01:09:37
um yeah yeah
01:09:46
University yesterday
01:09:49
um in their Sociology class I think
01:09:52
and we coined the the the fact about
01:09:56
normalizing it and we looked at you know
01:09:57
for an example how back in the 30s or 40
01:10:01
years ago you know you saw
01:10:04
um you know the the wife or the woman in
01:10:06
the kitchen doing most of the cooking
01:10:08
yeah and now you see men and the kids
01:10:11
and everyone cooking and it's because of
01:10:13
you know we've seen the steady
01:10:14
normalization of that like guys are in
01:10:17
the kitchen cooking so we'll see that
01:10:18
happen with the sexuality as well I
01:10:20
believe you'll see just just the
01:10:22
normalization as people that are you
01:10:24
know growing up even when they go
01:10:26
through schools now they're seeing more
01:10:28
of it and more of it so it's coming very
01:10:30
normal so yeah yeah as doing this
01:10:32
interview in late January opened a new
01:10:34
chapter of um of sort of life for you
01:10:36
like you mentioned doing a speech in
01:10:37
Christchurch she said I've seen you on
01:10:38
social media you know rubbing shoulders
01:10:40
with Ruby Tui she's wonderful she's an
01:10:43
awesome awesome human being did you know
01:10:45
it before this um
01:10:48
yeah
01:10:51
yeah
01:10:52
just and so much so much life and she's
01:10:55
got such a great smile she lights up a
01:10:57
whole room she's just incredible
01:11:00
um but yeah and I were doing a little
01:11:01
bit of work around that sort of stuff
01:11:03
and just helping out and getting out
01:11:05
there and um and and sort of just um
01:11:09
sort of continuing the vibe of just
01:11:11
awareness and openness and a caring vibe
01:11:14
that you know and Sport you know he can
01:11:17
still have that combat that that that
01:11:18
competitive that um their die-hard
01:11:21
attitude on the field but you know off
01:11:23
the field you you can be um you can be
01:11:27
vulnerable you can be open and and if
01:11:29
you're aware to what your teammates are
01:11:31
going through you know it would actually
01:11:33
make you stronger on the field yeah
01:11:35
well I reckon let's play a good way to
01:11:37
finish
01:11:37
I love it awesome Campbell Johnston CJ
01:11:40
thank you so much for coming over today
01:11:42
man it's really nice to finally meet you
01:11:44
and sit down with you and thanks for
01:11:45
being so open with your stories yeah
01:11:46
that's all right so we're good thank you
01:11:48
thank you very much for having me it's
01:11:49
awesome I really appreciate it man
01:11:50
changing lives
01:11:57
I hope your dad's happy I hope the Ducks
01:11:59
are leading the bread anymore yeah
01:12:03
awesome thank you
01:12:06
[Music]
01:12:14
thank you
01:12:16
[Music]