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[Music]
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Dame Susan devvo hello hello Don how are
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you good I finally got you persistence
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pays off yeah you started to become a
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pain in the ass so I thought I'm going
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to get this over and done with oh was it
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really like that pretty much so Dame
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Susan devoy um for anyone that doesn't
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doesn't
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know just a weapon of the squash world
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that was how you initially um got a name
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for yourself one all the world open open
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titles between 1985 and 1992 won the
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British Open eight times uh in 1992 the
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year you retired and shocked the world
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with that announcement you were the
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Australian Open Champion the British
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champion French Hong Kong Irish New
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Zealand Scottish Swedish and World
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squash Champion it's a remarkable career
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it must feel like a lifetime ago for you
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it does it's not not incredibly relevant
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anymore um I suppose when I have
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opportunities to talk about
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myself um I'm reminded of you know what
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a great sporting career I had but it's
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not exactly um I I suppose the scary
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thing is it does seem like yesterday and
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yet it's you
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know I mean 40 years this month since I
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won my first British Open I mean that
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just seems like
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yesterday yeah and um I've done so much
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research over the past week and
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anticipation of this and there's so many
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cards here with so many I didn't
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cancel I would have got you eventually
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um but there's so many so many chapters
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and um yeah twists and turns to the Dame
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Susan story um first one I I suppose
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this is kind of like a trivia bit of
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trivia like you're from a family of
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seven you were the youngest and six
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older brothers uh then you had four Sons
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yourself so you've just been surrounded
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by this male energy now now you're in
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your 60s and you're empty NRA is this
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the first time in your life you've had
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like a clean toilet
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floor um yeah pretty pretty much
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actually um be careful what you wish for
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sometimes um kids are like boomerangs
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though they keep coming back from time
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to time and uh you know Co meant that we
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had a few come back and stay longer than
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expected you know Flats leases get
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expired and they turn up or or you've
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been away and they come home and they've
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turned up without even telling you so um
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but you know I don't see our children
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living here long term in New Zealand so
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that's pretty sad I think you know our
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third son's in London our youngest is
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leaving next week to play go and play
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cricket uh our eldest is getting married
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to a girl from from Boston so I imagine
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that's probably where they'll end up and
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then I think our Second Son Alex's I I'm
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not entirely sure that they're
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all overly enamored with living in New
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Zealand at the moment so um yeah I'd
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probably give my right arm to have that
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chaos back in our house yeah would you
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yeah yeah pretty much cuz they've grown
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up a bit they know how to pick their own
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undies up and wash the tow if they have
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to they can even cook and clean and do
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whatever the great thing about men is
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they take longer than women but they do
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eventually grow up we get there we get
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there in the end in our own time yeah
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you must be immensely proud of them you
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know all well adjusted young men doing
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their doing their thing finding their
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path in the world yeah yeah I think
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that's probably the greatest achievement
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in my life or I should say our lives
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because they've got a great dad and
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that's made a huge difference but yeah
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um I mean it's a lifelong contract being
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a parent isn't it and uh yeah they've uh
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they're great mates together and they're
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good friends to us and um yeah I mean
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the only problem is with BLS or boys I
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should say is
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that you know they're not great
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communicators they just ring up for
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General chitchat you know they more if I
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not want something um they M can on golf
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so their dad gets to share that passion
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with them and you know they bought me a
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I've just recently turned 60 and I got a
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set of golf clubs for my birthday one of
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my friends suggested a piece of jewelry
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and they laughed so now I've got a set
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of golf clubs that have never been used
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um but yeah I'm I'm really proud of them
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I mean good men is what you're supposed
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to
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the Legacy you're supposed to leave so
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yeah what's your relationship like with
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them now you got a family like family
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WhatsApp group or and we've got one with
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mom in it and one with Mom one
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without like the whole family and then
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one with Dad oh that's mean yeah well
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there they talk about different things
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with your with your husband John or well
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they organized golfing weekends away and
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sort of stuff like that and you know
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they still play cousins yeld squash or
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they do quiz kns and things and I think
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I think there was some you know if
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there's any an inappropriate joke or
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humor shared and I've sort of you know
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promptly told them that what's
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inappropriate or not and it's generally
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John not them that I have to worry about
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so I probably got cut for valid reasons
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are you okay with that or does that hurt
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a bit no it's fine yeah it's fine I mean
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boys don't have much chitchat anyway so
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you know
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it's yeah hey so you've got a new book
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out called um Dame Susie D my story uh
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which you you wrote yourself yeah how
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many how many words 70,000 90,000 what
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was the contractual agreement uh the
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contract agreement was 70,000 and then
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it went to the lawyers and it came back
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and was only 60 so I had to sort of they
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cut out 10,000 sh no not quite not quite
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it felt like that to me you know when
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you get to the end you think God I've
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finally done this and then it goes away
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and comes and a bits redacted said you
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can't say that or you shouldn't say that
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or take that out uh I was a bit gutted
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so then I had to sort of Cobble together
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another couple of chapters or extend
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some so um yeah but you know it's like
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most things I do do in my life I you
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know go like a um bull in a china shop
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at the beginning and full of you know
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and then well you've written some books
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it's hard at the end isn't it you sort
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of run out of content
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or it becomes a bit of it was a bit like
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Groundhog Day it's hard to write about
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yourself you know it's like to be um you
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know it's hard
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to you know write about I mean it's easy
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to write about the bad things about
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yourself I find it very hard to write
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about you know sort of telling the world
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how marvelous you are you are you know
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so yeah but but an achievement you know
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from someone like me who can't sit still
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for more than a couple of seconds that
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discipline of actually getting it down
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on paper and and and as I said it is
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aptly called my story because uh I
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imagine that in some of those instances
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even my own family may disagree with a
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version of events but um I've got that
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line up my sleeve to say well it's my
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story not write your own book then yeah
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I I um one of my books is called um
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childhood of an idiot and it was just
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story about like growing up in you Le
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and palmist north in the the 1980s and I
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said to my siblings and my parents I
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said if if you don't like it you write
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your own [ __ ] book this is mine this
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is my version of events well I think
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there will be some instances there where
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people will have a different I mean I
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John's the only one that's sort of read
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it and he was oh I don't know that
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happened or you know he made a few
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changes said I did that no you didn't I
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did that and so he changed and said John
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and I it's like I'm not compromising
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because it's you know makes you feel
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better um but yeah it was like or I'd
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ask him if he remembers that happening
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he jogged my memory a bit but um yeah uh
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there's a little probably poetic license
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in there I mean it's all true but it may
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your truth yeah exactly my truth and
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where did the where did the name Dame
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susd come from well the Publishers came
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up with that actually it was nothing to
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do with me no one calls me that no one
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calls me Dame anything actually um but I
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think that
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um who's the really cool comedian uh
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uh that was on the F on Celebrity
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Treasure Island that I got kicked off on
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the first show oh the very tall nice
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looking blonde guy Guy Williams Oh Guy
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Williams no no not Guy Williams that's
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he's he's not that guy I don't know I
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don't know could you you must we'll get
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to twit later but you must have tuned up
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and thought who are these people yeah
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yeah yeah know I did um but he was so so
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nice and I hadn't realized that before
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I'd got there cuz I'd been kept aside
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for a while that he'd nicknamed me Dame
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Susie D and it sort of stuck and then my
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my son got onto my Instagram page which
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is you know I'm not a social media
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whatever and he changed it uh to Dame
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suie D without me even sort of knowing
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and so that's sort of just stuck really
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it's cool I like it do you like it um
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no got to call it something
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iose I feel like you were just like un
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my story is like my story that's pretty
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you know well so I suppose they had some
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sort of I mean I I would figure that 90%
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of the people that read it hopefully of
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the hundred that do
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um won't have watched celebrity Treasure
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Island so they won't understand that
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either well that's just just by um I
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suppose age and by circumstance here
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there'll be a lot of people that read it
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that didn't watch Treasure Island a lot
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of people that don't even um remember
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your squash career from the 1980s but I
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think it's really cool and the very
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small part of the book is kind of about
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the squash and it's about kind of what's
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happened since which I think is really
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cool because um this is your second book
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your first book called um out on top was
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released in 1993
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and that book ends with um this is not
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the final chapter in the Susan Devo
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story so back then 31 years ago so you
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you were you were a kid you were 30 um
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what did you think the future held what
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were your goals what were your dreams
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raise relations commissioner no that's
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the interesting thing because I think I
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quote that in my book too that well not
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so much about the next chapter but
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there's something relevant there about
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the public trust I would never have
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envisaged the way my life would have
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planned out didn't know how my life was
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going to plan pan out but
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um yeah I have been the mother of
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reinvention
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um and I would never have really even
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anticipated how interesting and
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varied it has been hopefully it still
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will continue for another few years but
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yeah I think that was a a good lead into
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the next story so you had no goals or
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aspirations you just going to sort of
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wait to see what doors opened for you
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rather than push Doors Down well I mean
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John and I were both very keen on having
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a large family we actually even talked
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about having six children that's before
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I had four sons of course um and yeah I
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I I think Sports people have a
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different uh life experience than others
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because you've achieved so much before
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you're the age of 30 or whenever you
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choose to retire you know so for me it
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was a sense of relief finally retiring
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because that's all I'd done or all I
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thought I'd done for my entire life you
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know so I'd spent nearly to me 30 years
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of being this young kid who was
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absolutely desperate to be the best best
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squash player in the world then the
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pressures of the time that I was there
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you know had a enormous impact on me
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more than people will probably
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understand and so I was just ready to do
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I I just wanted to be normal I didn't
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know what normal was but I wanted to
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have a family and I wanted to be a
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stay-at-home mom and I mean I knew that
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things would Adventure right I was
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already heavily involved with the how
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big trust and stuff but um yeah I wasn't
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uh I wasn't sure how it would all pan
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out it's funny cuz even if you're a like
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a a a super goal planner like a a 5year
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10 year goal planning person that
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there's no way back then that you could
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have said one day I'm going to be on a
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reality show like reality TV just wasn't
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a thing you know there's um just
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unexpected things that come your way and
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um yeah I think that's part of the like
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excitement of life really yeah I think
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that's where I've been luckiest you know
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one you know I can spend a few weeks
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think thinking I'm washed up and
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irrelevant and then just out out of
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nowhere an opportunity um presents
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itself and I haven't had to go looking
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for too many and if I do have to look
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for something there's always plenty to
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do you know there's always something a
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project to get involved in somewhere I
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mean it's lovely oh lovely it's cool at
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the moment at John I both in the stage
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of Our Lives that we can pick and choose
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what we want to do and um you know
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whether it's be here or travel or live
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our lives VI curiously through our
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children and or whatever I mean the next
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step for me is I'm just desperate to be
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a grandmother no one else is getting
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reading the room on that matter but um
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and it better be a granddaughter or I'll
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be sending it back oh I'd say odds are
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very where does the where does the male
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Gene come from in the devoy where where
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is that it's it's bonkas really isn't it
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I know I know your parents like
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literally kept hammering basically until
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they got a daughter right and you were
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number seven well no I don't think they
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cared really about that I mean I as I
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said in the book my mother was relieved
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she didn't have 14 children they were
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Catholics and you know women in those
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days never had much control over their
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own bodies unfortunately and um my
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mother was you know relieved that she
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didn't have 17 children that wasn't the
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desperation for a daughter um and my
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brothers all went on to have daughters
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first and I got stuck with the boys
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so okay so let's um talk about your
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squash and focus on that for a bit um so
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you you're from a like a squash playing
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family like your parents played squash
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so from a young age you're at the Squash
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Courts um just while your parents were
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drinking and socializing just whacking a
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ball around and I saw parallels with
00:13:34
that and my I'm from a tennis family so
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we spent weekends at the tennis club um
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your mom and dad would be drinking
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upstairs I'd be done whacking balls
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against a wall but if I compared myself
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to you I should be like Roger feder
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right now but I was terrible were you
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naturally good like you naturally showed
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some promise or no um I think I was a
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natural hitter of the ball I don't think
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I've never been probably no one would
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describe me as being the most flamboyant
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or talented squash player in the world
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but
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um yeah I just loved it you know there's
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a part of me that says or thinks that
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perhaps if my parents had put a tennis
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racket or a golf club my personality
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would have made me determined to be good
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at those too you know that's it's
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perhaps a little regret you know um why
00:14:19
why would that be a regret the money the
00:14:22
Mone I wouldn't be sitting here talking
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to you if I was a golfer or a tennis
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player would I Christ and I wouldn't be
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writing a bloody book about my life is
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you know Reinventing myself would I I'd
00:14:33
be um I'd be living on my super yacht in
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the Mediterranean right because squash
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is like a is a a minority sport compared
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to say tenis and golf okay yeah very
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minority you know I mean it's not like
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um I I'm not complaining but it's not
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like you know um I made enough to retire
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on or whatever but um yeah it just be
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interesting you know I'm a I'm a goodand
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eye I mean I see them my sons you know
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they're all good hand eye golfers
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cricketers whatever ever so I think oh
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you know with the determination I had in
00:15:02
the 10,000 hours or 100,000 hours that I
00:15:05
put in you know it would been
00:15:06
interesting to see if I had would have
00:15:08
been good at something else yeah yeah
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are you quite well versed on that um
00:15:12
that 10,000 the from Malcolm Gladwell
00:15:14
yeah so you would have you you probably
00:15:16
would have clocked up your 10,000 hours
00:15:17
just hitting a ball maybe on a lot of it
00:15:19
on your own while your parents were did
00:15:20
that when I was 13 yeah I'd already done
00:15:22
my 10,000 hours so by the time you
00:15:24
started playing against other other
00:15:25
people in competition and stuff you were
00:15:26
pretty good yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean I
00:15:29
was always well above my age group and
00:15:32
competitions when I was young and um you
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know I was so exposed to it as a
00:15:36
youngster with my brothers playing that
00:15:38
I went around and played lots and lots
00:15:39
and lots of tournaments so um yeah I
00:15:41
mean I I I I believe that you need to
00:15:43
put in those hours to be proficient at
00:15:45
something there's just a whole lot more
00:15:46
other things that make you a champion
00:15:49
yeah and and when did you when did you
00:15:50
decide to um like turn professional or
00:15:53
what was the what was the process with
00:15:54
that cuz I'm just thinking um you know
00:15:57
this was New Zealand in the ' 80s this
00:15:59
is like pre-
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internet you know it's just like a
00:16:02
completely different time like where did
00:16:03
where did that
00:16:05
um I don't know like you where where did
00:16:07
that even come from that that that
00:16:09
desire or that thinking that this is a
00:16:11
potential path for you well I think back
00:16:13
in the 80s and '90s or yeah um or even
00:16:17
the 70s I suppose uh squash was a boom
00:16:19
sport you know it was a new sport in
00:16:21
relatively new in New Zealand and it was
00:16:23
you know we
00:16:24
had um international players on the
00:16:27
circuit and the best players in the
00:16:29
world were aside from the pakistanis and
00:16:31
the men were you know Australians and so
00:16:35
my role models lived across the ditch
00:16:37
you know it's it's all very different
00:16:39
now um I had a trip when I was sort of
00:16:42
15 to Australia um you know so there was
00:16:47
and when I was 17 I went to the world
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Champs in Canada so it was like
00:16:51
um yeah I mean I can do this the funny
00:16:54
thing about squash it's always been
00:16:55
professional it's never been well when I
00:16:57
say when I started playing it was
00:16:58
professional the amateur era was very
00:17:00
small and it became professional very um
00:17:03
so you know there wasn't that sort
00:17:05
of decision for other sports have to
00:17:07
turn amateur professional whatever
00:17:09
professional is just a word doesn't mean
00:17:10
you make [ __ ] loads of money but what
00:17:12
why didn't your no why didn't your
00:17:14
parents trying to talk you out of it
00:17:15
though like Susan you're being
00:17:16
ridiculous go to university go to polch
00:17:19
get a job you know what I mean it just
00:17:21
seems it seems like a crazy crazy dream
00:17:24
well I look at it now and think I was 17
00:17:27
not quite 18 when I went to the UK when
00:17:29
I flew from ockland to
00:17:32
heo to have a crack on the circuit you
00:17:34
know and I think I look at my own
00:17:36
children and think imagine if they' come
00:17:38
and said that to us we would have you
00:17:40
know sat them down and and when I left
00:17:42
school in the middle of the S form what
00:17:45
it was I didn't tell my parents I left
00:17:47
school I was too scared to and uh didn't
00:17:50
yeah what you mean you just like checked
00:17:51
out of school without I did I just left
00:17:53
one day in the middle of the year I was
00:17:55
taught by nuns and one of them said to
00:17:56
me would you rather be at school or play
00:17:58
play squash and I thought what a stupid
00:17:59
question so I went home my parents
00:18:01
worked fulltime so every morning I'd get
00:18:03
dressed in my school uniform I'd
00:18:04
actually hide under the house until
00:18:05
they'd gone to work and then finally
00:18:07
after two or three weeks I plucked up
00:18:08
courage and told them and I said that at
00:18:10
the end of the year I wanted to go to
00:18:11
Europe
00:18:13
and my both my parents said well that's
00:18:16
okay but you need to find yourself a job
00:18:18
and find your way to do it and I was
00:18:21
like okay then I can do that I think I
00:18:24
look back now and think I think my
00:18:26
parents after seven children my my
00:18:28
parents were bitterly disappointed I
00:18:30
wasn't going to University but I think
00:18:32
they thought I would go have a crack at
00:18:34
this it wouldn't work out and I'd come
00:18:36
back with my toil between my legs and
00:18:38
you know we'd start again was sort of
00:18:40
you know I had University entrance they
00:18:42
called in those days and I wasn't you
00:18:44
know I wasn't thick or anything um and I
00:18:46
think they thought oh let her go and get
00:18:48
out out of system and she'll come back
00:18:50
and that'll be it but um yeah so um I do
00:18:54
look back and think of my parents but my
00:18:56
mother was formidable you know she was
00:18:57
like I think she wanted me to be more a
00:19:00
world champion more than I did what what
00:19:03
are you what I'm just trying to think so
00:19:05
I've got one of my one of my best mates
00:19:06
has um his daughter recently moved to
00:19:08
the UK and I think um she's 21 22 and um
00:19:12
her her mom went over with her to help
00:19:14
her get established with a flat and
00:19:15
stuff and they're like we don't not sure
00:19:17
how she's going to cope it's the other
00:19:18
side of the world but it's like this
00:19:19
FaceTime now like it's very very yeah
00:19:22
back when you went there was um snail
00:19:24
mail really wasn't there and very very
00:19:27
expensive you know phone calls probably
00:19:28
10 bucks a minute like you to to be from
00:19:30
New Zealand to London you may as well be
00:19:32
on the [ __ ] Moon yeah those funny
00:19:34
little eogs you know those onepage
00:19:36
things that you'd stick together and
00:19:37
send it off and the News would be two
00:19:38
weeks old by the time you got a letter
00:19:40
none of my brothers were very good at
00:19:41
writing and neither were my parents
00:19:43
actually or you'd have to book in a
00:19:45
reverse charge phone call you know and
00:19:48
sometimes they'd even say no
00:19:50
because can't afford it no or if you you
00:19:54
had to book an a call if you wanted to
00:19:56
speak to your parents or someone on
00:19:57
Christmas day you know
00:19:59
um so it was incredibly incredibly
00:20:01
different um than it is I think there's
00:20:04
some bonuses to that in some ways too
00:20:06
though but um yeah I mean it's sort
00:20:10
of I'm I've I've always been incredibly
00:20:13
resilient and I probably didn't
00:20:15
appreciate it at the time but now I
00:20:16
realize at my age doing what I did which
00:20:18
was living couch surfing from tournament
00:20:21
to tournament and bludging beds and
00:20:24
begging people to hit with me and um so
00:20:27
yeah I mean it's just uh
00:20:29
that's the way it happened what did it
00:20:31
take to be so
00:20:33
good there's a word you use in this um
00:20:35
this book you um describe your training
00:20:37
as
00:20:38
maniacal yeah that's probably it that's
00:20:41
probably it yeah I mean the thing about
00:20:43
being so good is I loved training as
00:20:45
much as I loved competing you know um I
00:20:49
look at the generation of my sons they
00:20:52
love competing not all of them love
00:20:55
training you know like as I did but I I
00:20:58
got as much pleasure out of the training
00:21:00
as I did um the competing so you know it
00:21:03
was never enough for me and in those
00:21:05
days we had no it was no rhyme nor
00:21:07
reason to what we did there was no
00:21:08
Sports Science there was
00:21:10
no um you know I mean in these days you
00:21:14
could write a program for a squash
00:21:16
player and cover every every sort of
00:21:18
skill and attribute that you need
00:21:20
physically technically and whatever in
00:21:22
those days it was sort of like a bit hit
00:21:23
and miss and whatever and we didn't have
00:21:25
the testing and all those sorts things
00:21:27
so I rather than think I done enough I
00:21:29
wasn't sure I'd just do some more and
00:21:31
probably I overtrained in many regards
00:21:34
um but I needed that for my own
00:21:36
confidence because for me every time I
00:21:37
stepped on that Court um I knew
00:21:39
technically that I was okay but
00:21:41
physically because it's so demanding I
00:21:43
needed to know that um I you know I'd
00:21:47
taken there was no stone unturned and
00:21:49
that's why I knew that I wouldn't I
00:21:52
barring illness or injury I was going to
00:21:54
win were you that that motivated to work
00:21:57
so hard because you loved when or just
00:21:59
cuz you hated losing was it a fear of
00:22:00
losing oh I had a terrible fear of
00:22:02
losing that I probably didn't openly
00:22:04
admit all that um easily you hardly had
00:22:06
to no and I and that just became worse
00:22:09
over time the more I won the more I was
00:22:12
scared of losing and it wasn't um you
00:22:15
know I mean i' as I said in the book I'd
00:22:16
be a sports psychologist nightmare you
00:22:19
know um not that we had those in those
00:22:21
days either um in fact we used to laugh
00:22:23
and we said if you have to go to one of
00:22:24
those then you really you really are
00:22:26
nuts you know um but yeah I um I
00:22:30
just I just never thought I was fit
00:22:32
enough or strong enough or you know well
00:22:34
no I did but I thought I could always do
00:22:36
more I was always looking there's no
00:22:38
such thing as a perfect performance but
00:22:39
I always knew that there's when I
00:22:41
finished winning I'd come off and I
00:22:43
wouldn't say that was amazing or I
00:22:44
played really well I'd say oh god I've
00:22:45
got to work on that or I've got to do
00:22:47
this and I've got to do that and so yeah
00:22:49
it was just sort of this in the end it
00:22:51
became like a treadmill really and
00:22:53
that's basically the reason I retired I
00:22:55
mean I was only 28 when I actually
00:22:56
retired so I look back now and think
00:22:58
[ __ ] that was a bad move yeah is that
00:23:01
quite young to retire as a squash player
00:23:02
yeah yeah yeah there people um I mean
00:23:05
Joel King still playing now she's 35 and
00:23:08
uh yeah but I I just couldn't do anymore
00:23:11
I just didn't have the uh cut yeah yeah
00:23:14
me must be other things to life I
00:23:16
thought and I like I can't imagine the
00:23:18
um like the pressure to perform there
00:23:20
was there was a there was a clip on the
00:23:21
news a couple of weeks ago Tiger Woods
00:23:23
making his return to golf and um it was
00:23:25
a news story because he shanked a shot
00:23:27
so you had a bad shot and I I suppose
00:23:30
the um the only sort of closest thing we
00:23:33
could come to a direct comparison to you
00:23:34
right now is probably Lisa Carrington
00:23:35
going to the Olympics this year and um
00:23:37
not winning a gold medal like that would
00:23:39
be bigger news than who winning a gold
00:23:41
medal and um that's a that's a massive
00:23:43
amount of preure to carry on your
00:23:45
shoulders well I think that's exactly
00:23:47
what happens is when you're at the top
00:23:49
for such a long time people expect you
00:23:51
to stay there and then um as fickle as
00:23:55
people are they I suppose it's only news
00:23:58
of something happens you know if
00:24:00
disaster struck but I also think this
00:24:02
flip side of that as you
00:24:04
become in hindsight now I look back and
00:24:06
say you become sort of preoccupied and
00:24:08
obsessed with that because you
00:24:11
know let's hope that Lisa Carrington
00:24:14
doesn't make up at the Olympics I you
00:24:16
know she's probably one of our greatest
00:24:18
sports person um and I think um if she
00:24:23
did it would be news for a day but if
00:24:25
it's her she probably thinks it's news
00:24:26
for a year you know she I don't know how
00:24:29
she deals with it but that's what I
00:24:30
would be thinking I my buildup to the
00:24:32
British or the worlds would be oh geez
00:24:33
what if I lose what if I lose you know
00:24:36
that was my it became and that's no way
00:24:38
to play sport yeah I've had um yeah Dame
00:24:42
Lisa on you're actually my second Dame
00:24:43
on the podcast I've had Dame Lisa on and
00:24:45
uh yeah she she has like a strict um no
00:24:48
social media no internet role um when
00:24:50
she's in in um like training camps for
00:24:53
the Olympics cuz she said she just
00:24:54
doesn't need the added pressure about
00:24:56
you know will Lisa WI six gold medal
00:24:59
sort of thing um but I think that's the
00:25:01
benefit of in my era we didn't have the
00:25:02
social media but we still had the
00:25:04
pressure from you know the media or
00:25:06
whatever but it's something that is
00:25:08
self- professing you know it's you know
00:25:10
it's when I was climing the British Open
00:25:12
I the whole New Zealand weren't thinking
00:25:14
about Susan Devo playing in the British
00:25:16
Open but Susan Devo thought the whole of
00:25:18
New Zealand were thinking about her
00:25:20
playing in the British Open but um yeah
00:25:22
I mean I I Dame Lisa and I probably had
00:25:26
different completely different
00:25:27
personalities but you know the one thing
00:25:29
that I read about her that resonated was
00:25:31
that um you know she's never missed a
00:25:34
training session and that's why she's so
00:25:36
good yeah yeah yeah do you can you see
00:25:39
sort of parallels between you and her
00:25:41
well in a training sense you know I mean
00:25:43
I don't know who well enough to know the
00:25:44
other parallels apart from We're bloody
00:25:46
great Achievers um but yeah so I think
00:25:50
that that's you know and for me my
00:25:52
sporting career nothing ever nothing
00:25:54
ever took place over training you know
00:25:57
yeah yes speaking of that what um what
00:25:59
are some of the notable sacrifices you
00:26:01
had to make to achieve your goals is
00:26:03
there anything that that stands out well
00:26:05
I think you just have a different life
00:26:07
you know you don't um you don't party
00:26:11
you know you don't stay up late you
00:26:13
don't miss a day's trading you don't go
00:26:16
away on holidays you know those are the
00:26:19
sort of things you don't go sightseeing
00:26:20
you know it's just one tournament from
00:26:22
another you don't I never saw those as
00:26:24
sacrifices and I still don't actually I
00:26:26
think it's um you know amazing
00:26:29
I won't say the word privilege but um an
00:26:31
opportunity which you probably don't
00:26:32
appreciate till you've hung up your
00:26:34
record but yeah no um yeah you just
00:26:37
sacrifice a a normal life I suppose you
00:26:40
you know it's very regimented and you
00:26:42
know very structured and um but that's
00:26:45
what it takes I suppose well you just
00:26:47
going back so um we talked about Lisa
00:26:50
Carrington before and her switching her
00:26:51
phone off during the you know and it was
00:26:53
a different time for you in terms of the
00:26:54
media but I I read or heard somewhere
00:26:56
that you you you just stopped reading
00:26:58
reading anything or having anything to
00:26:59
the media after the age of like 23 what
00:27:01
was that what was the catalyst is there
00:27:03
a bad story or yeah know I had a run in
00:27:05
with the British press I can't even
00:27:06
remember what it's about but they wrote
00:27:08
something that was entirely you know
00:27:11
um uh entirely untrue I well it was and
00:27:15
I thought at my young age of I think it
00:27:17
was 21 or 22 or something that I could
00:27:19
you know take on the British tblo the
00:27:21
fourth estate and you know and it went
00:27:23
horribly wrong wasn't even that major
00:27:25
you know probably fourth page of the
00:27:27
Daily Mail something um but I decided
00:27:30
from then on that I couldn't change what
00:27:32
they were going to write or say and that
00:27:34
it affected me so badly that I was never
00:27:37
going to be so I've never read anything
00:27:39
good bad or different before since or
00:27:41
after and it's exactly the same with
00:27:43
social media and you know I um I did
00:27:47
that during when I was the race
00:27:49
relations commissioner I've done that
00:27:50
through C celebrity Treasure Island I
00:27:52
don't uh it's not that I don't go on
00:27:54
social media but I don't read anything
00:27:56
that's to do with me why would you why
00:27:58
would you put yourself through that may
00:28:00
may miss mean you miss out some nice
00:28:01
stuff too but um you know the people
00:28:04
that mean the most to me will tell me
00:28:05
the nice stuff I don't need randoms but
00:28:07
um yeah so it's uh you know it's been a
00:28:10
really something that's helped me cope
00:28:12
with you know any criticism or yeah
00:28:16
there there is that saying that everyone
00:28:17
knows that you should you know just
00:28:18
control the controllables but it's um it
00:28:20
still takes a lot of strength not to
00:28:22
Google yourself especially if you're you
00:28:24
know some celebrity Treasure Island I
00:28:26
mean that's kind of a fun flippant thing
00:28:27
but like the Rel race relations job and
00:28:29
we'll get to that later um it'd be hard
00:28:32
it'd be hard not to see what's being
00:28:34
said about you yeah but if you don't do
00:28:36
it it becomes a discipline you know and
00:28:38
then you don't have to I mean why would
00:28:41
you beat yourself up and go to bed
00:28:43
because ab and C said that you're this
00:28:47
this and this cuz human nature is that
00:28:50
you only look at the negatives don't you
00:28:52
you don't go to bed and say oh God AB
00:28:55
andc you're marvelous you go bed and
00:28:57
said d and F said you're a prick you
00:29:00
know and that's um and I can't change
00:29:02
what they're going to say about me and I
00:29:04
can't you know and and the thing is was
00:29:06
it may sound like you're just you know
00:29:09
your dad's um medical event happened
00:29:11
within the space of 24 hours how like
00:29:13
what are your Recollections of that you
00:29:15
know I'm going to go back and I'm going
00:29:16
to prove everyone wrong I'm still a
00:29:19
champ and I'm going to go back and I'm
00:29:21
going to win the worlds and the British
00:29:22
Open again and and then I caught up with
00:29:26
I started training with a guy called
00:29:27
Vince pal who came out to New Zealand he
00:29:29
was a former paratrooper who trained at
00:29:31
my club in Marlo where I was based in
00:29:34
the UK and he came out to New Zealand by
00:29:36
chance and he was one of the very first
00:29:39
personal trainers at Le Mills with the
00:29:40
one-on-one training that had sort of
00:29:42
started up and um I used to do the Wiz
00:29:45
with Vince sessions at the Oasis Club in
00:29:47
Marlo and that's well that's what they
00:29:49
were like and um he didn't know anything
00:29:51
about squash and so we trained together
00:29:54
and um yeah and I say in the book that
00:29:57
he introduced me to rest and you know it
00:30:00
wasn't more as better it was more
00:30:02
quality and um and that was the most
00:30:07
specific I've ever been in any years
00:30:09
that I've trained and so um and it it
00:30:11
sort of brought some Joy back into doing
00:30:13
it and I and so the 92 was the best year
00:30:15
I I ever had and that wouldn't have
00:30:17
happened if I hadn't had the worst year
00:30:19
in ' 91 yeah yeah you're back to that 91
00:30:21
thing so you didn't win the British Open
00:30:23
and this was a massive surprise to
00:30:24
everyone um and in the book you talk
00:30:27
about the shame and andar Bassment and
00:30:28
your support crew knew to stay clear of
00:30:31
you for a few days what yeah what were
00:30:33
you like after after not playing to your
00:30:35
potential oh I'm you a nightmare to be
00:30:37
around yeah I'm S I only lost twice in
00:30:39
major events I lost in the British Open
00:30:41
in 91 and I lost in the worlds in ' 87
00:30:43
and both time I'm not pleasant to be
00:30:45
around not something I'm entirely proud
00:30:47
of now like sulky or moody or irritable
00:30:50
or what would be the worst well you know
00:30:52
you could look at me the wrong way and
00:30:54
I'd snap yeah best to be just left alone
00:30:57
John just used to of and go somewhere
00:30:58
and play golf with his mates um yeah I I
00:31:02
yeah I suppose it's just pathetic really
00:31:04
when I think about it now but um yeah I
00:31:07
just
00:31:08
um the the the reason I used to get so
00:31:11
upset was I mean in ' 87 I lost the
00:31:14
worlds and I didn't at the time because
00:31:15
I'm whil to say I don't like losing I'm
00:31:18
good sport I could attribute to that to
00:31:21
walking the length of New Zealand
00:31:22
because I didn't have all of my first
00:31:24
twitch muscles were gone but in 91 it's
00:31:29
like I did all that preparation i' done
00:31:31
all the things I've done before I didn't
00:31:34
lose in the final I lost in the quarter
00:31:35
FAL you know so it was just a double
00:31:37
whammy for me but um yeah I mean it's
00:31:41
just in hindsight now I look back and I
00:31:43
cringe to think what I was like I mean I
00:31:45
wasn't rude and abusive that's why
00:31:46
people just used to stare clear because
00:31:48
I just needed to sulk for a few days
00:31:50
then I'd come right but that's just that
00:31:52
champion you know there's a line in the
00:31:54
book 30 years on I'm mortified to look
00:31:56
back and realize my obsession with
00:31:57
winning but I've been um I apologize to
00:32:00
frequent podcasters because I've been
00:32:01
going on a bit about this recently but
00:32:03
I've been reading a book by a guy called
00:32:05
Tim Grover who was like the physical
00:32:07
trainer of um some of the greatest NBA
00:32:09
players ever like Kobe Bryant and
00:32:11
Michael Jordan and they all had the same
00:32:13
sort of thing as you like they were just
00:32:15
like had a one track mind just that
00:32:17
single Focus about training harder than
00:32:19
anyone else like Kobe Bryant would do
00:32:21
three training sessions a day like it'd
00:32:22
get up earlier than anyone else um it's
00:32:25
the same sort of thing so yeah I mean it
00:32:28
served you well you can't be too
00:32:29
embarrassed about that right oh no no no
00:32:31
it's no of course but you know I um yeah
00:32:34
it is the reason I was so good I'm you
00:32:37
know I'm unashamedly proud of the fact
00:32:40
that I was like that but I'm just yeah
00:32:42
it's I don't know it's just a weird
00:32:45
um but it's intrinsic in you you're born
00:32:49
like that you can't teach anyone that
00:32:52
you know you can't it's just who you are
00:32:54
and that's what Champions are about you
00:32:56
know it's like um
00:32:58
and I see that come to the for and other
00:33:00
things that I do and it's like um you
00:33:04
know even on Celebrity Treasure Island I
00:33:06
was you know the thing about getting old
00:33:08
that I hate is I think I'm not going to
00:33:09
be good at anything anymore when I said
00:33:12
I want to be a world champion I just not
00:33:13
going to even be proficient I can't do a
00:33:16
box jump anymore you know I can't run
00:33:18
under 5Ks anymore I can't do this
00:33:21
anymore I keep trying and trying and
00:33:22
trying to do it and I'm not just I'm not
00:33:25
aging gracefully I'm you know becoming a
00:33:27
grumpy old bag but that you know and and
00:33:30
the other reason I didn't really go into
00:33:31
coaching or training is cuz I know I'd
00:33:33
be too hard on
00:33:35
people no seriously in the world's soft
00:33:37
a now you can't you know you got to ask
00:33:41
people how they feel and you know you
00:33:44
it's it's a different time now way um I
00:33:46
I had a guy on the podcast last week who
00:33:48
um did he's currently the assistant
00:33:50
coach of the Crusaders and he spent a
00:33:52
bit of time playing sevens under Gordon
00:33:54
titens and it's like a different
00:33:55
coaching style to what is sort of accept
00:33:58
now like um by today's standards you
00:34:00
might call Gordon titens a bully for the
00:34:02
way he trained people but it's just he
00:34:03
wanted the best people in those
00:34:06
positions and the fittest people in
00:34:07
those positions yeah hey one thing you
00:34:09
mentioned um you touched upon before is
00:34:11
the walking the length of the country so
00:34:12
this was um and this this is a whole lot
00:34:16
of crazy so this is in 1988 so you walk
00:34:19
the length of the country to raise money
00:34:20
for um muscular distopy so you were 24
00:34:23
years old at the time this was the
00:34:25
middle of your middle of your career now
00:34:28
nowadays you'd never get this over the
00:34:29
line right like coaches trainers um high
00:34:32
performance sport or whatever can you
00:34:34
imagine Lisa Carrington taking you know
00:34:36
half a year off to like what yeah how
00:34:38
what what was the story with that how
00:34:40
did you get that over the line was it
00:34:41
just your decision and no one else had a
00:34:43
say in it well no one else had a say
00:34:44
really in anything I did because I
00:34:46
wasn't paid by anyone to do anything so
00:34:47
I didn't have any obligations to anyone
00:34:49
like sport New Zealand or all that sort
00:34:50
of thing it was just myself and I think
00:34:53
you know as I said I'd been on the
00:34:54
circuit since I was 17 so that's seven
00:34:57
years and
00:34:59
um uh there were sort of a whole lot of
00:35:02
things that sort of combined to me the
00:35:04
the Catalyst was really a lot of people
00:35:06
at the club where I was based in the UK
00:35:07
were part of Ian botham's walk so I saw
00:35:10
what they were doing and I didn't know
00:35:11
Ian Botham but you know pretty amazing
00:35:14
thing to do and then I got connected
00:35:16
with the MD Association
00:35:18
through Susie simok who was involved in
00:35:20
squash
00:35:22
and I think it was perfect for me
00:35:25
personally very selfishly actually the
00:35:28
decision was to do something completely
00:35:30
different completely out of the box you
00:35:32
know that
00:35:33
was um because by the time I was about
00:35:37
24 I was starting to talk about when am
00:35:40
I going to retire you know how long have
00:35:42
I got you know that sort of thing um
00:35:45
which is a bit odd but um because I'd
00:35:48
done everything yeah you know what I
00:35:50
mean it's not
00:35:51
like you know I didn't want to win 16
00:35:54
British opens I didn't want to I'd
00:35:55
already run one four and
00:35:58
uh worlds it wasn't like I had a goal of
00:36:00
how many I wanted to win um and so it
00:36:03
was doing something completely different
00:36:06
and I think the thing is that I felt
00:36:08
like not entirely true but really since
00:36:11
the time I was about 12 years of age
00:36:12
I've done nothing
00:36:14
else and it was just um and it was it
00:36:17
was you know defined a lot of the future
00:36:20
of my life really and it was it was
00:36:23
wildly successful like how much money
00:36:24
was raised for muscular half ra half a
00:36:26
million dollars which is huge there's no
00:36:28
fpos machines it was checks and 20 C
00:36:30
coins and dollar notes and all collected
00:36:33
in buckets or fundraisers from different
00:36:35
organizations and it was yeah it was a
00:36:37
formidable thing to do actually I um
00:36:40
can't imagine doing now there's a bit
00:36:41
more too much traffic on the
00:36:43
road well you think now like um it's so
00:36:46
much easier to you know fund raise now
00:36:49
with you know sites like give a little
00:36:50
bit to get half a million for anything
00:36:52
now and half a million back then could
00:36:54
probably buy you 10 houses in Oakland
00:36:56
you know so substantial amount of money
00:36:58
so what were the what were the days like
00:37:00
how much like how many how many KS were
00:37:03
you walking per day well
00:37:06
um we we averaged between 30 and 50 you
00:37:10
know our our biggest day was 70 K
00:37:12
walking up to the cape um the first week
00:37:16
was the hardest but then after that we
00:37:19
just became seasoned and when I say we
00:37:21
cuz our Beast Man guy c spider walk the
00:37:24
entire way with me um but yeah it was
00:37:28
just
00:37:29
um and and we did every single step you
00:37:32
know we'd start at 5:30 in the morning
00:37:34
and sometimes we'd arrive at the
00:37:35
destination and we think God you know
00:37:37
perhaps we could just drive on an extra
00:37:39
few Cas no one's going to notice but
00:37:40
every single day without fail there was
00:37:42
always someone there to start walking
00:37:44
with us and um yeah I mean we walked on
00:37:47
the main road you know I don't I mean
00:37:49
you probably wouldn't be allowed to do
00:37:50
that these days you know it was the end
00:37:52
of the school tomb we had Bunch loads of
00:37:54
school kids we had randoms wandering all
00:37:56
over the road I mean you wouldn't be
00:37:58
able to do it for a whole lot of health
00:37:59
and safety and all sorts of reasons but
00:38:01
um yeah and we'd get into the local Town
00:38:03
we'd stop at the pub at the end of the
00:38:05
day then we'd have a function to go to
00:38:08
the school might have raised money or
00:38:09
the rotary club or I don't know it was
00:38:12
um it was pretty phenomenal experience
00:38:14
and half a million dollars that we'd sit
00:38:16
and count at night you know was just
00:38:19
just it was a inspired when you think
00:38:21
about it and and I think what makes it
00:38:23
even more like another layer of
00:38:25
impressiveness is um yeah you were like
00:38:28
the the top squash player in the world
00:38:30
at the time were you were you like
00:38:32
having an hour training every now and
00:38:34
then at squash courts or was it a
00:38:35
complete time off squ complete time off
00:38:37
that seems Madness in hindsight doesn't
00:38:39
it yeah yeah well it does cuz it was
00:38:40
right before um you know the season and
00:38:43
squash jary starts in January and we
00:38:45
finished on the first week of
00:38:47
December um so yeah I was a bit
00:38:49
undercooked when I went back in terms of
00:38:52
I mean you can never lose your um your
00:38:54
Technique but as I said at the speed and
00:38:57
i' lost a lot of muscle strength and
00:38:58
stuff like that but um you know could
00:39:00
walk forever could have walked around
00:39:01
the world I just couldn't run very fast
00:39:04
um but I knew that when I took that on
00:39:06
and I C certainly at the time didn't use
00:39:07
that as any excuse
00:39:10
um and yeah I'm I'm I'm never regretted
00:39:14
doing that to this day I actually
00:39:16
contemplated doing it again sort of 25
00:39:20
years later contemplated it never got
00:39:22
round to actually doing it well why
00:39:23
don't you you could though well I
00:39:25
couldn't now I told you I can't even run
00:39:26
under I'm going to do this the rot
00:39:29
Marathon I'm 60 and it's the 60th
00:39:31
marathon and I went tried to run 12ks
00:39:33
the other day I I read this in your book
00:39:35
so you've done the rotor and Marathon
00:39:36
twice um yeah you're like 10 years older
00:39:38
than me but I'm from like a rugby and
00:39:39
Tennis family so I remember very well
00:39:41
like the Fletch Marathon growing up at
00:39:42
the rot and Marathon now it's a a big
00:39:44
big deal you both your marathons have
00:39:46
been sub four like it's um you're no
00:39:48
slouch no but that was um I I did my
00:39:51
last one when I was 40 and I'm now 60
00:39:54
right so I've only
00:39:56
just yeah with six weeks to go it's not
00:40:00
the same if you walk it you have to have
00:40:02
to walk and I'd have to walk I'd have to
00:40:04
run walk run walk run walk run walk and
00:40:06
isn't that ridiculous a 60-year-old
00:40:08
woman who run walks the marathon should
00:40:11
be proud of that I'm like oh how
00:40:13
embarrassing I couldn't even run the
00:40:14
whole way but I'll probably still do it
00:40:17
you're so old school it's my mom's 71
00:40:19
and we're going to Paris next week to do
00:40:21
the marathon and Mom's um mom's
00:40:24
uh mom's just um frustrated about
00:40:27
getting older and slower um so she's
00:40:30
she's like she's like when when there
00:40:32
comes a time that I can't do it under 5
00:40:33
hours I'm not doing it anymore and I'm
00:40:35
like [ __ ] you're a 71y old woman he
00:40:37
still doing it like be proud of that
00:40:38
it's is she going to do the marathon
00:40:40
under 5 hours that's phenomenal yeah
00:40:42
it's incredible right that is yeah my
00:40:45
son's running the London in a few weeks
00:40:47
time not my son that's Runner another
00:40:49
son so um yeah I mean it's just uh
00:40:53
perhaps I'll ask Julian to run the
00:40:54
marathon with me and oh had go right
00:40:56
Julian by the way he's he could run
00:40:58
twice he could probably run run it twice
00:41:00
in the distance I took to do one yeah
00:41:02
yeah Julian um Susan's Son by the way he
00:41:05
was like a sub four minute mile Runner
00:41:08
which is just incredible yeah yeah John
00:41:10
Walker one of your um peers I guess um
00:41:13
yeah that was his sort a big thing he
00:41:14
was the first man in the world to break
00:41:16
100 sub 400 miles and anyone that does
00:41:18
it now it's still like a remarkable Club
00:41:20
to be in yeah I don't think people
00:41:22
appreciate how good that is and I you
00:41:24
know I'm not even sure if he does but
00:41:26
you know his got has been able to run to
00:41:28
be able to run a sub for in at Mar for
00:41:30
the last 10 years I think nichas has
00:41:33
done 20 years in a row um and fewer
00:41:36
people have run under sub for Miles than
00:41:38
Klein Mount Everest yeah it's a crazy
00:41:40
Club to be I know I know yeah hey so
00:41:43
let's move on to the nigh Hood so may
00:41:45
1998 um you get a letter you what's the
00:41:48
process with with getting a nigh Hood so
00:41:50
a letter arrives in the Post Yeah you
00:41:53
sort of get like a party invitation slip
00:41:55
thing with a you know from government
00:41:57
house and it says your nomination for a
00:42:01
royal honor has been accepted um and do
00:42:05
you wish to accept and then there's like
00:42:07
an RSVP slip that says yes or no so make
00:42:11
sure you took the right box some people
00:42:13
do say no they don't want one so yeah
00:42:15
I'd come home from the hospital I'd had
00:42:17
just had my our fourth son um my
00:42:19
mother-in-law was staying I remember
00:42:20
walking in she said to me I'll never
00:42:22
mind Susan you're still young enough to
00:42:24
try again as if there was some great
00:42:25
failure in having four boys
00:42:27
and then John little while later said
00:42:30
you might want to check the mail that's
00:42:31
when we did have snail mail and I went
00:42:33
through and I saw that and I thought
00:42:35
he'd opened it of course but um I
00:42:37
thought wowma was completely unexpected
00:42:39
completely out of the blue you know and
00:42:43
um yeah I was yeah I mean you know I've
00:42:47
set myself lots of goals in my life but
00:42:50
it's never been one of those you know I
00:42:52
want to be a world champion and by the
00:42:54
way i' i' like to be a sir or Dame or
00:42:56
whatever you call it you know um so yeah
00:42:58
it was
00:43:00
um you know one of those things you feel
00:43:02
a
00:43:03
little I mean I've always you know a lot
00:43:05
of people make comments about Awards why
00:43:07
should you get an award for being good
00:43:09
at sport or if you've been a politician
00:43:11
or whatever um and I I don't know who
00:43:14
nominated me but I I'd like to think
00:43:16
that the person that did that wasn't
00:43:17
didn't do it all those years after I'd
00:43:19
retired wasn't was part of the other
00:43:22
stuff that I did in my life oh yeah the
00:43:23
squash thing was just a thread I mean it
00:43:25
was the Walk of yeah the walk that ra
00:43:27
half a million we about and a bunch of
00:43:28
other stuff yeah and I think that that
00:43:30
was yeah and my mom was still alive then
00:43:32
so for her that was you know the icing
00:43:35
on the cake for her she was chuffed what
00:43:37
does that mean exactly how does your
00:43:39
life change when you become it doesn't
00:43:40
change at all really no you more respect
00:43:43
from people or no no no in fact I think
00:43:47
there was when I it was 98 or something
00:43:50
I don't know uh I remember our youngest
00:43:52
was only a little fellow um I don't
00:43:54
think people called me Dame Susan and
00:43:57
until 20 years later you know it was
00:44:00
like it
00:44:01
never and now people say what do we call
00:44:04
you and I say well call me what you like
00:44:05
I don't care but if you're in a room
00:44:07
with a group of people and there's a sir
00:44:08
there they automatically call the the
00:44:10
gentleman sir it's not like that I'm
00:44:12
don't think they go up to them and ask
00:44:13
them what they'd like to be called so it
00:44:15
is sort of the seems like the lower rank
00:44:18
you know John doesn't have a title
00:44:21
um our friends used to call him lady
00:44:23
John but he didn't necessarily see the
00:44:25
funny side of that you know
00:44:28
um go yeah how's how's he been like it
00:44:30
seems like you've got a incredible
00:44:31
relationship you two but uh um it kind
00:44:34
of been easy at times like living in
00:44:35
your Shadow it's a very big Shadow you
00:44:37
cast yeah but he's never been like that
00:44:40
you know he's not that sort of person he
00:44:42
doesn't have an ego so he's
00:44:45
not
00:44:46
uh yeah he's never been like that he's
00:44:49
not a big not a big personality person
00:44:51
so he's um but he certainly ruls the
00:44:55
roast I mean he wears the pants and the
00:44:56
f family don't worry about that um I
00:44:59
find that hard to believe no it's true
00:45:01
don't worry he is the boss come hell
00:45:03
high water I can promise you um he's
00:45:06
just very quiet about it whereas I'm the
00:45:07
loud and rockus one but um yeah look I
00:45:10
met John when I was 18 at the New
00:45:11
Zealand Champs in
00:45:13
Timaru
00:45:15
uh so 40 something years later you know
00:45:18
we're still trucking along um yeah we're
00:45:21
just we're just we're opposites and I
00:45:24
think we're probably finally quite
00:45:28
challenging now with retirement is
00:45:31
to I mean I'm never home you know I've
00:45:34
been up here looking after my brother
00:45:35
who's at a bilateral knee replacement
00:45:37
and my sister-in-law who fell down and
00:45:38
broke at both her ankles so I'm able to
00:45:41
come and be the nurse carer for and help
00:45:42
them out because life's been pretty
00:45:44
terrible for them uh I have a little
00:45:46
project down that's written about the
00:45:48
book and Club case I go off to
00:45:49
Wellington I can't sit still stay in one
00:45:51
place for very long um he retired on the
00:45:54
8th of January this year and then
00:45:56
started working on the 14th only 3 days
00:45:58
a week so we're in that transition phase
00:46:00
of Our Lives where we both love certain
00:46:04
things together and we have our own
00:46:06
interests I think we probably need to
00:46:08
find something else that we're you know
00:46:11
like to do together um and it's it's a
00:46:15
tough tough stage in your life are we're
00:46:17
grateful that we can do it one we don't
00:46:20
know how long we're going to live for
00:46:21
two we don't know if we're going to have
00:46:23
you know we're going to use up all our
00:46:24
money in that time John's a great
00:46:26
believer and spending our children's
00:46:28
inheritance they've had their lot you
00:46:29
know we've helped them along the way I'm
00:46:31
sort of like what if something happens
00:46:32
and can't we help them out a little bit
00:46:34
more or you know so um yeah we're at a
00:46:39
really different stage of Our Lives yeah
00:46:42
financially you you okay I know there
00:46:44
wasn't a great deal of money in squash
00:46:45
like it was a th bucks here thousand
00:46:47
bucks there um but the the race relation
00:46:50
sh and we'll get we'll get to that did
00:46:52
that pay all right yeah that pay all
00:46:53
right I mean I did very well financially
00:46:55
as a squash player I was a big fishing a
00:46:57
small pond here so whilst the prize
00:46:59
money wasn't huge um I had some very
00:47:02
very very good endorsements and John was
00:47:04
my manager and he stitched up some very
00:47:06
very good deals so whilst I might have
00:47:08
had huge retainers he made it on a big
00:47:10
bonus if I won and because I also got it
00:47:13
winning we did okay and we were you know
00:47:15
we squirreled it away for a rainy day
00:47:17
and made sure that we were okay and
00:47:20
John's had you know work bloody hard so
00:47:22
yeah yeah we're fine but um it's not
00:47:24
like you're living in a a um a Caravan
00:47:27
and panga no pepakura pepakura yeah
00:47:30
don't forget to bring that up that's a
00:47:32
reference to something the book yeah cuz
00:47:33
I mean there has been some bad Lu along
00:47:35
the way like um yeah this came up there
00:47:36
was some you got screwed over by a
00:47:38
business partner basically um and then
00:47:41
you made some quote to the some
00:47:43
journalists like after you you had to
00:47:45
sell your house and move to a rental and
00:47:46
you said it's not like we're living in a
00:47:48
camping ground and I said it's not like
00:47:50
we're living in a caravan you know CU I
00:47:53
think they wanted to suggest that we
00:47:55
couldn't put food in our tables right I
00:47:57
don't know how it came out but the the
00:47:59
headline ended up Dame Susan quipped
00:48:01
lightly or something that don't worry
00:48:03
we're not living in a Mot in a caravan
00:48:05
in the papara motor Camp it was like God
00:48:08
blind me every second person wrote to me
00:48:11
or complained or whatever the May got on
00:48:13
the bandwagon and got on the paper and
00:48:16
so I wrote a letter to the edit I've
00:48:17
never done one since and whatever and
00:48:19
just said you know I apologize for you
00:48:22
know whatever and can we get on our
00:48:24
lives can we get on with our lives you
00:48:26
know
00:48:27
um but yeah I think that was by the way
00:48:30
your apology was quite psychas yeah yeah
00:48:33
yeah yeah well not one of them said we
00:48:34
sorry for the situation you found
00:48:35
yourself in I don't think that John
00:48:37
particularly likes that part of the book
00:48:39
um who who wants to have you know your
00:48:41
dark
00:48:42
times I know he doesn't like it at all
00:48:45
um but I as I said to him it's my story
00:48:47
and its context you know um and and
00:48:50
that's life life is life is not a
00:48:52
greatest hits album for anyone is it no
00:48:54
well I think it's the story of the
00:48:56
recovery that remarkable not what
00:48:57
actually happened it's like that just
00:48:59
goes as Testament to him and myself how
00:49:02
we had to knuckle down and um you know
00:49:06
rebuild ourselves again and that's
00:49:09
that's more of an achievement than had
00:49:11
life just carried on you know like that
00:49:14
and it may have taken a different path
00:49:15
you know I wouldn't have had to go to
00:49:17
work or I wouldn't and I wouldn't have
00:49:18
had the opportunities and um yeah and
00:49:22
the relation race relations commissioner
00:49:24
did pay well it's a you know it's a not
00:49:26
quite a public servant it's a state
00:49:28
servants role
00:49:29
but most senior public servants are paid
00:49:32
very well yeah but I certainly um you
00:49:34
know worked hard while whilst I was in
00:49:36
there and um you know some of it could
00:49:39
be be described as blood money but
00:49:42
should we get wait to that in a second
00:49:43
but first of all I just want to like
00:49:44
just park on the the the nigh Hood stuff
00:49:46
for a little bit um because there were
00:49:48
some um cool perks that came along with
00:49:50
that this might be a good opportunity to
00:49:52
drop a couple of names so you got to go
00:49:53
to a dinner with um President Bill
00:49:55
Clinton um you met him you had like a
00:49:58
meet and gret yeah I think that's my
00:50:01
story of the most famous person I've met
00:50:03
I was going to say that but I've
00:50:03
actually met Prince Dy and Prince
00:50:05
Charles and the queen but um the
00:50:06
funniest story was I went to this dinner
00:50:09
and again John wasn't invited you know
00:50:11
funny wasn't it but saved on the
00:50:13
babysitting and I went along and saved
00:50:15
on the babysitting yeah and it was you
00:50:17
were you were sitting next to um a
00:50:20
couple of sewers S I was with Sita Blake
00:50:22
and Lady Blake there you go s Hillary
00:50:25
and Lady Hillary so they got their
00:50:27
Partners yeah that seems that seems
00:50:28
unreal I said next Chelsea Clinton and
00:50:31
um anyway I just was a bit Star Struck
00:50:33
really um and the President Bill Clinton
00:50:37
was like sitting five or so meters away
00:50:39
and I I saw that people were just being
00:50:42
introduced to him and shaking his hand
00:50:44
and I thought I'm going to see if I can
00:50:46
and I had um been to edman Hillary's
00:50:49
80th birthday not long before that and
00:50:51
sat with the American ambassador his
00:50:52
name was yosiah Beaman so I went up to
00:50:55
him and said look um if the opportunity
00:50:57
presents your could you please introduce
00:50:59
me to the president and he came along
00:51:00
later and took me over and I stood up
00:51:03
and I was you know I mean there's
00:51:04
something charismatic about that guy
00:51:06
despite all the stories about him and uh
00:51:09
he introduced me by saying Mr President
00:51:11
this is deam soono she is she is and I
00:51:15
thought God what's he gonna say and he
00:51:17
said she's New Zealand's most prolific
00:51:19
Olympic gold medalist I thought oh God
00:51:20
he's completely forgotten and then I
00:51:23
thought what am I going to say I mean
00:51:24
the president probably doesn't even know
00:51:26
what squash is
00:51:27
and he said oh really how many medals
00:51:29
have you won and I said 10 and then
00:51:32
realized the absolute absurdity of that
00:51:35
and he looked at me very sort of you
00:51:37
know Riley and said well you must be the
00:51:39
world's most prolific I was so
00:51:41
embarrassed by that stage I'd crawl back
00:51:43
on my hands and knees and this is Prem
00:51:45
Michael Phelps so yeah you would no no
00:51:48
one no woman would have won 10 gold
00:51:51
medals and the you know and I certainly
00:51:52
didn't look like a diver or a swimmer or
00:51:54
something like that did I so um but I
00:51:57
always always love that and I always
00:51:59
think you know I was s sitting in that
00:52:01
room with all those people thinking God
00:52:03
who would have thought as a young girl
00:52:05
growing up in Roa Vegas that I'd be
00:52:07
sitting here one on a Sunday night with
00:52:10
400 of the world's top leaders and
00:52:13
people you know that was sort of amazing
00:52:16
really it's funny I I I think we all
00:52:18
have that at some point
00:52:20
where just inside you still feel like
00:52:23
that um
00:52:24
8-year-old that 8-year-old from wherever
00:52:26
you are for me it's from paliston North
00:52:28
for you it's from you know Roo hey it's
00:52:30
funny you just don't feel like you
00:52:31
belong in these environments necessarily
00:52:33
um what were you you were sort of
00:52:35
friends with sured right you were yeah
00:52:38
yeah yeah yeah well I would got a lot to
00:52:39
do with them really I mean you know you
00:52:41
went to and got invited to his 80th
00:52:43
birthday um you went to lots of events
00:52:46
and functions where you were sort of on
00:52:47
the A-list then you know and he was
00:52:50
often there but yeah I think he's
00:52:52
probably my most favorite New Zealander
00:52:56
and and uh I also tell that funny story
00:52:59
that you know I used to get asked to
00:53:01
donate things for auction uh
00:53:03
for fundraising things and you know no
00:53:06
rackets no balls no frilly neets left
00:53:07
and whatever and then someone came up
00:53:09
with this idea why didn't you just get a
00:53:10
$5 note and sign it and then get sir Ed
00:53:14
toci sign it and Sir edman lived down
00:53:16
the road for me when we lived in Oakland
00:53:18
and I remember taking the boys there one
00:53:20
day and um I went and got them signed
00:53:23
and I told the boys to stay in the car
00:53:25
at all cost chop their legs off they
00:53:27
were only pretty young anyway when SED
00:53:30
walked me up the driveway the boys were
00:53:31
in the car and he said why don't you
00:53:33
bring them in and I jez okay anyway we
00:53:37
went in and they were very well behaved
00:53:38
I mean they were young honestly and then
00:53:40
we were leaving and I said now boys what
00:53:41
do you say you know you teach children
00:53:43
say thank you very much for having me
00:53:44
and they said that and then my eldest
00:53:47
said God you must be really rich for an
00:53:48
old fell and he was like why is that he
00:53:51
says cuz you got your face on all the $5
00:53:53
notes and then my second son piped up
00:53:55
and said yeah cuz I was tell telling
00:53:56
them who we were going to visit and what
00:53:58
he' done and my second son ped up and
00:53:59
said yeah my mom said you're really
00:54:01
famous cuz you've climbed Mount
00:54:02
Eden so um I just say out of the mouths
00:54:05
of babes yeah oh that's a great story
00:54:07
I'm sure he would have appreciated it
00:54:09
right did he laugh yeah yeah yeah yeah
00:54:11
he a he was a a very
00:54:13
um amazing man actually amazing man I I
00:54:17
just remember his um this is sort of pre
00:54:20
cell phones um just when there was the
00:54:22
um white pages and the Yellow Pages his
00:54:25
his name was always listed on the phone
00:54:26
book so anyone could call him we'd have
00:54:29
him on the radio from time to time cuz
00:54:30
his number was just available it was
00:54:32
yeah and he was the most famous New
00:54:34
Zealand or imaginable at that time you
00:54:36
couldn't imagine if there was White
00:54:37
Pages now say I don't know Richie mcco
00:54:40
having his well I think he's probably
00:54:41
still the most famous New Zealand really
00:54:43
you know if you think about it who would
00:54:45
who would people in the world know most
00:54:47
and well perhaps they wouldn't now I
00:54:49
don't know might be uh what about
00:54:51
Mandela you got to meet Nelson Mandela
00:54:53
yeah but only briefly only briefly can't
00:54:56
actually I mean I did meet him but I
00:54:58
can't actually recall no story
00:55:00
conversation no no no stories no more
00:55:02
stories about famous people it's all
00:55:03
about me now I know Prince your time's
00:55:06
nearly up your time's nearly up is it
00:55:07
how long you giving me yeah how how long
00:55:09
we got yeah well you said an hour and
00:55:11
we're an hour at 101 geez you're full of
00:55:14
[ __ ] you get me in here on the
00:55:15
pretense and you say it's only an hour
00:55:17
and I'll be lucky to get out of here by
00:55:18
2:00 there's um well this I can be part
00:55:20
two because I hear you're going to do
00:55:22
two two podcasts aren't you soon two per
00:55:25
week yeah yeah yeah like could be famous
00:55:27
one day normal the next we we as soon as
00:55:30
you've had enough you can you can say
00:55:31
enough but there's just there's so many
00:55:32
thre I'm only joking I'll give you a
00:55:34
okay I've just got another appointment
00:55:36
at 3:00 CU I'm in big demand 2 o' I mean
00:55:38
sorry okay um okay so Prince Charles um
00:55:41
you met him him he wasn't the king then
00:55:43
he was the prince but he made a rude
00:55:45
joke um well probably be construed as
00:55:48
rude these days but at the time it was
00:55:50
funny um oh it is it is funny yeah yeah
00:55:52
yeah so um I got invited when Jim Balo
00:55:56
was prime minister to a sort of like a
00:55:59
barbecue type thing on a one night on um
00:56:02
at Premier house the one that's falling
00:56:04
down around our ear apparently and I
00:56:07
remember
00:56:08
that I think Max C was playing the piano
00:56:11
and Dame malvin ofer not that anybody
00:56:13
out there will know who these people are
00:56:15
now um and Prince Charles arrived and I
00:56:17
had just retired and Jim Bal introduced
00:56:20
John and I and was something along the
00:56:23
lines
00:56:25
of
00:56:26
Susan have always retired to start a
00:56:28
family and Prince Charles said something
00:56:30
along the lines well I hope you're
00:56:31
having a lot of fun
00:56:33
practicing he was actually a very very
00:56:35
very nice man and at the end of the
00:56:37
evening it was just like a group of
00:56:38
people sitting around a campfire even
00:56:41
though it was a grand piano singing
00:56:43
along and yeah at the moment at the time
00:56:48
where these um encounters are happening
00:56:49
do they seem like a big deal or do they
00:56:51
just seem like like a massive sort of
00:56:52
thing when you look back now and go holy
00:56:54
[ __ ] this was my life this happened
00:56:56
happened to me yeah you know I think
00:56:58
they are um I mean they are a big deal
00:57:01
at the time of course they are and you
00:57:03
know the funny thing is you look back at
00:57:04
them and you think I remember meeting
00:57:05
Bill Clinton I meeting Prince Charles I
00:57:08
remember meeting but none of them
00:57:09
remember meeting you of course so that
00:57:11
puts you right back and thing I think
00:57:13
the funniest story and it's not in the
00:57:14
book is that John relayed the other day
00:57:16
was I couldn't go to we were invited to
00:57:18
a garden party at um government house in
00:57:21
Oakland and I was a away competing John
00:57:23
was here but he went along and he said
00:57:25
you know the Queen's walking past him
00:57:28
you know coming towards him and he's
00:57:29
like oh yes I'm going to shake your head
00:57:31
and then said when she got really near
00:57:32
he just F shed himself I don't want to
00:57:34
I'm too scared to shake her hand I'm too
00:57:36
scared to shake please don't shake my
00:57:37
hand he said I was just she's just a
00:57:39
person but I was completely overall you
00:57:41
know he said who would have ever thought
00:57:43
I'd be inches away from the queen and he
00:57:45
said thank God she just went past me and
00:57:47
I thought well yeah so there he's got a
00:57:50
well you know thrill out of meeting some
00:57:52
of these people and um yeah it's just
00:57:56
it's just funny well lucky things that
00:57:58
you have happen in your life that change
00:58:00
you and yeah what about what about Lady
00:58:02
D what was was that with Prince Charles
00:58:04
no yeah that was at a function in
00:58:07
Cardiff in Cardiff Castle or I think it
00:58:10
was Castle called
00:58:14
um and at at a function and um I just
00:58:18
shook hands she had that polite smile
00:58:19
and we did our little curtsies we didn't
00:58:21
have any conversations we didn't have
00:58:22
any conversations with either of them
00:58:24
actually um but the terrible thing about
00:58:25
that is is that it
00:58:28
was my former coach that took the photos
00:58:31
of Lady Dy in the gym that would came
00:58:34
the SC with the cameras in the ceiling
00:58:36
yeah right so I
00:58:39
felt pretty stink you
00:58:42
know that made me sort of yeah oh wow
00:58:47
that's right I forgot all about that go
00:58:49
she had a rough run of it didn't she
00:58:50
yeah I didn't write about that in the
00:58:51
book The book's about me not about that
00:58:53
but I mean that was yeah but um yeah it
00:58:56
was
00:58:57
um yeah that was a very interesting time
00:59:00
actually yeah so um onto the race
00:59:04
relations commissioner job which was um
00:59:06
your job from 2013 to 2018 first of all
00:59:09
like what what is that role I I honestly
00:59:11
um until you got that role i' I'd never
00:59:14
heard about that role before didn't even
00:59:15
know it existed well that's a good thing
00:59:16
isn't it at least I rais the profile
00:59:18
yeah yeah 100% I think you know to just
00:59:21
to sum it up um the commission the Human
00:59:24
Rights Commission exists in
00:59:26
um most countries have a National
00:59:29
Institution of Human Rights you know
00:59:31
it's to make sure that people's you know
00:59:34
who human rights are upheld I mean we
00:59:36
just take them for granted here in New
00:59:37
Zealand we think that we've got a
00:59:38
fantastic human rights record and
00:59:40
whatever um but in essence Commissioners
00:59:43
whether you're the disability
00:59:44
commissioner or you know the indigenous
00:59:46
commissioner or the race relations
00:59:47
commissioner you basically your job is
00:59:49
to hold the government to account you
00:59:51
know we report we're part of the um you
00:59:55
know we report to the United Nations in
00:59:58
Geneva or New York on you know gender
01:00:00
equality and all those things and that's
01:00:02
what the commissioner does is to hold
01:00:04
the government to account you have a
01:00:07
five-year reporting process on how
01:00:09
you're going as a country and whatever
01:00:11
and um you know and I think for New
01:00:13
Zealand people don't necessarily
01:00:16
understand that role um as as you don't
01:00:19
yeah um and uh and so therefore it's
01:00:23
it's not as people see that I am the
01:00:25
judge juror and adjudicator of whether
01:00:28
someone is racist or not or when someone
01:00:30
has a brain fade and makes a comment
01:00:32
that people think that that's what the
01:00:33
Commissioners role is to come out and
01:00:35
say you know I mean our job is to you
01:00:38
know uphold people's rights stick up for
01:00:40
them you know call out racism or
01:00:44
discrimination or whatever like that and
01:00:46
um yeah I mean I I
01:00:49
think yeah I think things could be
01:00:52
better and I think things are better now
01:00:55
in the Human Rights Commission and
01:00:58
internally and but you know we don't
01:01:00
even have a commissioner at the moment
01:01:01
since Ming left Ming Fon they haven't
01:01:03
replaced that role so I think there's
01:01:04
going to be some changes with this new
01:01:06
government as to whether how that
01:01:07
organization still exists yeah it must
01:01:09
have been a curious time in your life so
01:01:11
you were sort of shoulder tapped really
01:01:13
by Judith Collins to apply for the job
01:01:15
um and then you then you so you go
01:01:17
through the whole employment process you
01:01:18
get the job and then there's like
01:01:19
immediate backlash um to the point where
01:01:22
you you turn up to your house after the
01:01:24
announcement has been made and um
01:01:25
there's there's a flock of journalists
01:01:27
there so you have to hide in the boot of
01:01:28
a mate's car yeah I mean it was is that
01:01:30
the first first and only time you've
01:01:32
been in the boot of someone's car and
01:01:33
I'm claustrophobic so I nearly [ __ ]
01:01:35
myself um but yeah I I just I was
01:01:38
complet I mean I wasn't so naive that I
01:01:40
thought everyone thought it was going to
01:01:41
be a unly wonderful appointment but I
01:01:43
didn't think that I would be get so much
01:01:46
criticism and was that because I was you
01:01:49
know a Pia white woman or was it because
01:01:52
I was a woman or was it because you
01:01:54
know do you think maybe people thought
01:01:56
it was a token job because it's just
01:01:58
like a you're the sports person like a
01:02:00
high-profile Sports person I think the
01:02:01
fact that I was a sports person meant
01:02:03
that I was the most unqualified job for
01:02:05
the RO they hadn't realized that i' done
01:02:06
a whole lot of other things since I'd
01:02:07
retired that made me perhaps not the
01:02:11
best qualified but suitably qualified or
01:02:13
youd think they'd at least give me a
01:02:15
chance before I cocked it up they had to
01:02:16
go at me so yeah that seems only fear
01:02:18
yeah yeah but I also think you know it's
01:02:20
uh was an interesting time that I got a
01:02:22
lot of Cen but again there was that um
01:02:25
that Mech ISM you know where I just
01:02:26
blocked it all out most of it and um and
01:02:30
I thought you know once I finally did
01:02:32
get started that know nothing could be
01:02:35
I'd be well prepared for anything that
01:02:36
was you know coming my way but it was it
01:02:39
was pretty tired at times it became
01:02:41
quite but you know I'm I'm sort of most
01:02:43
proud of myself that at least I stuck up
01:02:45
and did my job I was
01:02:46
never you know never afraid to confront
01:02:49
issues or people or whatever you know I
01:02:52
mean I some other funny stories that I I
01:02:55
told was you know I'd be sitting there
01:02:56
about to talk about something on the TV
01:02:59
whether it's about refugees or something
01:03:00
like that and people like the prime
01:03:03
ministers of the time I was there John
01:03:05
Key and Jinder would be sitting there
01:03:06
like John was saying oh what are you g
01:03:07
to talk about today Susan and I'd say
01:03:09
well it depends what you say John you
01:03:11
know it's like yeah you know um so and
01:03:15
you know I I respect the politicians
01:03:17
that knew that you were calling them out
01:03:20
because that was your job to do you know
01:03:22
and um rather than you know and Judith
01:03:25
was same she said you could do what you
01:03:26
like Susan because the role is
01:03:27
independent but you know I operate on no
01:03:30
surprises if you're going to criticize
01:03:32
something then at least give me the
01:03:33
grace to tell me first so that's how
01:03:35
good politics should work yeah what what
01:03:37
and the hindsight on and reflection what
01:03:39
are the highs and lows of that role oh
01:03:41
just the people I met and just you know
01:03:42
I'm just phenomenal really I mean I
01:03:44
really um I mean I I did love working in
01:03:48
the refugee sector you know I mean
01:03:50
there's always highs and lows of
01:03:52
everything the sad and negative side of
01:03:55
that thing but there's also enormous
01:03:56
amount of positivity and meeting those
01:03:58
people that have just survived something
01:04:00
that we wouldn't even comprehend or
01:04:01
understand and what great new zealanders
01:04:03
they make where you you know the average
01:04:05
kiwi looks at thinking they're just
01:04:07
taking something away from them um uh
01:04:11
yeah being involved in complete
01:04:14
understanding of the whole ethnic
01:04:15
composition of our country is pretty
01:04:17
amazing you know it's like um you know
01:04:22
understanding you know what being super
01:04:24
diverse really means and what the issues
01:04:26
are suring that I mean it's we are a
01:04:29
really we are indeed a multicultural
01:04:31
country on a bicultural
01:04:34
foundations but it's the biculturalism
01:04:37
that we're stuck on we haven't sorted
01:04:38
that out you know we haven't
01:04:40
acknowledged um well not we there is
01:04:43
still a lot of opposition to the you
01:04:45
know most of the complaints and things I
01:04:47
got to me personally or even to the
01:04:48
commission were anti- Mari and
01:04:50
anti-treaty which means we haven't grown
01:04:52
up very much as a country we should be
01:04:53
proud of our treaty you know look at
01:04:55
what's happening in Australia you know
01:04:57
we should be really proud of how far
01:04:59
we've come when we were a young country
01:05:01
we could be so much better than we are
01:05:02
now yeah um but I could have written a
01:05:05
whole book about that you know I just
01:05:07
didn't have I could have written 17
01:05:09
million words on My Views and but my
01:05:11
views aren't always right they're just
01:05:12
My Views now it must have been um eye
01:05:15
opening like you must have learned a lot
01:05:16
there must been a lot of stuff that
01:05:17
surprised you in that time yeah yeah
01:05:19
there was actually um it wasn't so much
01:05:23
um not all of it surprised me as I said
01:05:26
there were some positives and some
01:05:27
negatives and uh you know I think
01:05:30
everyone that's had that role has gone
01:05:31
and at a certain time and there's been
01:05:33
some you know major issues to contend
01:05:36
with um you know when I at the time that
01:05:38
I was there there was a lot of
01:05:40
anti-immigration anti-asian you know all
01:05:42
of that stuff so um but yeah and every I
01:05:46
think every commissioner had the time
01:05:47
has said we're out of Crossroads and
01:05:50
with this current government and the way
01:05:51
we're going we're certainly at a
01:05:53
Crossroads aren't we I mean it's like
01:05:55
holy hell um I wouldn't want to be um I
01:05:59
wouldn't want to be the commissioner now
01:06:01
and I think the other thing too was the
01:06:03
Christ Massacre even though it finished
01:06:05
then that was sort of really
01:06:07
um you know that came home to roast
01:06:10
roast for me because I had done a lot of
01:06:12
work with the Muslim Community
01:06:13
particularly the women and their I don't
01:06:17
know their request for some help and
01:06:18
whatever is were just completely ignored
01:06:21
by our government departments and that
01:06:22
sort
01:06:23
of um and I'm not saying that that would
01:06:26
have changed what happened there and
01:06:28
everything but um they were generally
01:06:30
concerned about threats to them but
01:06:32
whereas our government department is
01:06:33
only concerned about the threats that
01:06:36
perhaps Isis or other terrorist groups
01:06:38
had so yeah looking under the wrong rock
01:06:40
all the time I think I don't know um how
01:06:44
how much if any at all you want to dwell
01:06:46
on um any of the like personal negatives
01:06:48
of that time but you sort of touch upon
01:06:49
some of these in the book like um you
01:06:51
the threats of being kneecapped yeah and
01:06:54
the dog sh incident yeah well I wrote I
01:06:57
wrote a little bit more in depth about
01:06:58
that in the book and then it went to the
01:06:59
lawyers and because you can't um I mean
01:07:02
it's true but couldn't name the
01:07:05
organization or this and I'm like God
01:07:09
why but anyway I didn't um yeah I mean I
01:07:12
got a death threat I got threat to be
01:07:16
kneecapped I got physically assaulted
01:07:18
one day up the mount not not brutally um
01:07:21
what do you what do you mean physically
01:07:22
assaulted like um like actually like
01:07:24
like going up the mount with John one
01:07:26
day you know MOA is the place of our
01:07:29
happy place and I was going up and I we
01:07:30
were walking down and a guy was running
01:07:32
up so was obviously quite fit and he
01:07:35
just sort of pushed me to the side and
01:07:36
called me a brown loving nword loving
01:07:40
you know and I got hell of a frud I was
01:07:42
just so shocked and he continued on
01:07:44
running and John and I just walked down
01:07:46
in complete silence as if you know and
01:07:48
we got to the bottom and John said
01:07:49
because he always says calls me sweee
01:07:51
you know doesn't M Mar anything uh he
01:07:54
said oh sweetie um
01:07:55
that's my favorite thing to do I said
01:07:57
John do you just comprehend what
01:07:59
happened I said if that was me if
01:08:01
someone had abused you like that I would
01:08:03
have run and chase them even if I was
01:08:05
slow and old like you are and punch
01:08:07
their bloody lights out at the top and
01:08:09
he said oh yeah I just couldn't believe
01:08:10
that happened I've just put it to one
01:08:12
side you know and i' came home and there
01:08:14
would be a box of dogs doing wrapped up
01:08:17
you know and Christmas wrapping outside
01:08:18
of my house or Hobson's pledges bloody
01:08:21
pamphlets posted all over our door and
01:08:24
was quite confronting book on
01:08:26
Christianity sent to the squash my local
01:08:29
squash Club you know please give to
01:08:30
Susan devoy I mean it was just um very
01:08:34
kind of pity but also very personal as
01:08:36
well yeah or you'd be walking the
01:08:38
supermarket and someone would sort of
01:08:40
come up to you you know an older
01:08:41
gentleman or something and sort of poke
01:08:43
you in the chest with their you know
01:08:45
young lady you know you've got it all
01:08:47
wrong and and you know it was just why
01:08:51
were people so threatened you know like
01:08:54
um I I found it yeah um it's really
01:08:59
confrontational yeah it is it is but I
01:09:01
think that's part of living in a small
01:09:03
country like New Zealand everyone's sort
01:09:06
of you see people don't you in the
01:09:09
supermarket or walking down the street
01:09:10
or whatever that that are that are
01:09:12
public profiles or may have a job or
01:09:14
have views that you don't agree with and
01:09:16
then suddenly new zealanders see them in
01:09:17
real life or whatever or they want to
01:09:19
make their views really strongly felt
01:09:21
they feel like they can go to and do
01:09:23
something to you um yeah but it wasn't
01:09:26
so much scary it was just a bit freaky I
01:09:29
thought how was your mental health in
01:09:31
that during that time I know you're a
01:09:32
very very tough cookie and you're a
01:09:34
resilient person but you are still at
01:09:35
the end of the day just a human being um
01:09:38
yeah were you okay during during this
01:09:40
period um that would I'm just thinking
01:09:41
I'm probably projecting here that would
01:09:43
wear me down yeah no I coped at the time
01:09:45
it wasn't until I left and there were a
01:09:47
whole lot of internal wranglings within
01:09:48
the commission
01:09:49
that again I couldn't talk about it
01:09:52
great length but um oh yeah so it was a
01:09:54
5-year term in in the end you were sort
01:09:56
of um there was like a review and you
01:09:58
were sort of like booted out is that how
01:10:00
it was essentially no I don't think I
01:10:02
wasn't necessarily booted out by the
01:10:03
result of the review I sort of fell on
01:10:05
my sword and by Falling on My Sword what
01:10:07
they say about you you like was it
01:10:08
you're a bully or you're no I wasn't a
01:10:10
bully I was I wasn't the bully I was the
01:10:12
disruptor right I was calling out the
01:10:15
bullies um but you know the lesson
01:10:18
around that is it comes at Great
01:10:20
personal cost to be a whistleblower and
01:10:22
if anyone out there's considering doing
01:10:24
it I'd be free very very very careful
01:10:26
yeah one of the things I would say that
01:10:28
some of these reviews and inquiries and
01:10:30
whatever they they're they're supposed
01:10:33
to be to expose the villains and the
01:10:35
peace but sometimes they're actually
01:10:37
there to to to cover them up and it
01:10:39
wasn't until I finished I suppose with
01:10:41
all of that that happened that I
01:10:42
realized that I was burnt out and uh
01:10:46
yeah I mean I just basically I started
01:10:51
developing anxiety having panic attacks
01:10:55
you know like something that was
01:10:56
completely foreign to me and it took so
01:10:59
how old were you like mid-50s yeah yeah
01:11:01
yeah 55 I think 55 yeah and because I'd
01:11:04
never experienced anything like that I
01:11:06
just didn't quite know what was and John
01:11:08
was living in Melbourne he was working
01:11:09
for the company that he was running in
01:11:11
New Zealand had asked him to go to
01:11:12
Australia and I just felt quite alone
01:11:14
really and isolated and it wasn't until
01:11:16
a friend sort of identified or said to
01:11:18
me you're not right I don't know what
01:11:20
not right meant just not yourself though
01:11:23
yeah yeah this is not normal and and you
01:11:25
know I was sitting at
01:11:27
home drinking a bottle of wine every
01:11:29
night thinking that you know that would
01:11:31
take the edge off and I'd feel normal in
01:11:32
the morning and you know as I said used
01:11:34
to love running around Mo or up you know
01:11:36
whatever and I thought none of this
01:11:38
gives me any Joy anymore I thought and
01:11:40
so yeah I went and um uh got some help
01:11:43
and obviously I had
01:11:45
been you know I was depressed and it was
01:11:48
more the anxiety and everything that was
01:11:50
worried me and um I tried some
01:11:52
medication and that made it worse and
01:11:54
then it was wasn't too I took some
01:11:56
counseling really and you know I'm one
01:11:58
of those stoic I'm a bit like these BLS
01:11:59
really I don't need any help in that
01:12:01
regard but well it's a generational
01:12:02
thing isn't it where you know it's B
01:12:05
like going seeing a sports scientist
01:12:07
sports psychologist you know I I was
01:12:08
sort of 20 years before that thought
01:12:10
they were odd and I thought um this is
01:12:13
okay A bit of exercise stop drinking
01:12:15
every night you'll be right you know
01:12:17
come on sold your socks up yeah yeah um
01:12:21
but I suppose it was the counseling that
01:12:22
unraveled everything and saw where that
01:12:25
it was just you know it was just
01:12:27
episodic events had built up that had
01:12:30
happened internally and externally
01:12:32
during my time there that I hadn't you
01:12:35
know I hadn't had any supervision I
01:12:37
hadn't addressed the things at the time
01:12:39
and yeah it just sort of came to a
01:12:41
Melting Pot and John was living in
01:12:43
Melbourne so he didn't really understand
01:12:45
he had a bit of pressure in his job not
01:12:46
like mine but we would but get together
01:12:49
and we'd think oh we won't talk about
01:12:50
any of that cuz we've only got this
01:12:51
short period of time together let's try
01:12:53
and you know have do on the fun stuff
01:12:56
yeah but he's also we're also different
01:12:57
personalities you know he has if
01:12:59
something happens in his life that's not
01:13:01
necess that's negative or whatever he's
01:13:03
got this amazing ability to think well
01:13:04
that happened it's done you know whereas
01:13:07
I'm the stew get even want
01:13:11
Justice gonna get even you know gon to
01:13:13
get back at that person Jesus they if
01:13:15
they piss me off and sha at last man
01:13:17
they're going to pay for it you know
01:13:18
that sort of thing and it's just the
01:13:21
different whereas you know sometimes you
01:13:23
got to look in the back in the past to
01:13:25
see the future but so yeah and I and I
01:13:27
mean he's just the incredible Optimist
01:13:29
drives me bloody nuts imagine waking up
01:13:30
with someone every morning that's
01:13:32
grateful for everything it's very
01:13:34
draining yeah I think you need him are
01:13:37
you are you quite good at letting your
01:13:38
walls down with him and being being open
01:13:40
with him as he oh geez the poor guys are
01:13:41
battering
01:13:44
around well they thanks so much for
01:13:46
sharing this stuff it's um like it's I I
01:13:48
think it's really um empowering and um
01:13:51
yeah a couple of other people have had
01:13:52
on the podcast Adam perori do you
01:13:54
remember wet keeper and John Hart the um
01:13:57
former all black coach and they both
01:13:59
talked about um your sort of midlife
01:14:01
depression that they suffered John Hart
01:14:02
circumstantial after he lost the 99
01:14:05
World Cup and came back and there was a
01:14:07
toet of abuse and people spat on him at
01:14:09
a horse race me Adam peror just from a
01:14:11
relationship break up but um it's you
01:14:14
sort of think of depression and mental
01:14:16
health issues to be largely like a I
01:14:18
don't know like a teenage or something
01:14:20
that happens in your 20s but it can
01:14:21
happen later in life and it's it's
01:14:22
alarming and scary when it does happen
01:14:24
yeah app well I think it's just um it
01:14:27
can be episodic or it can be you know
01:14:29
circumstantial can be chemical it can be
01:14:32
you know I mean I'm not an expert on any
01:14:33
of that um it's it's a bit like I talk
01:14:37
in the book about menopause you know no
01:14:38
one wants to talk about that sort of
01:14:40
stuff either but um if I wish I wish now
01:14:44
that I that we can always feel brave
01:14:46
enough to seek help and try and find out
01:14:49
what's causing these things so that we
01:14:50
can get better quickly I think back now
01:14:53
and think God I didn't have to go
01:14:54
through that
01:14:56
you don't get a medal at the end for
01:14:57
saying oh God she stuck it out for so
01:14:58
long until she get she got some help or
01:15:00
vice you know whatever um and um it's
01:15:05
not brave talking about it's just I mean
01:15:08
you know if you were interviewing John
01:15:10
and I he'd say nothing about nothing
01:15:11
it'd be like getting blood out of a
01:15:12
stone and your interview would have
01:15:13
taken 10 minutes you'll have to shut me
01:15:15
up after two hours because I'll just go
01:15:16
on and on and on and on and on because I
01:15:19
like to wear my heart on my sleeve it's
01:15:20
just me yeah yeah are you quite good at
01:15:23
um showing vulnerability like it's um
01:15:25
sort of a kind of a buzzword now and
01:15:26
everyone is starting to realize that
01:15:28
vulnerability is um like a almost like a
01:15:30
superpower rather than a weakness but I
01:15:32
don't think it's uh I don't describe it
01:15:35
like that um I I just think
01:15:37
it's I think it's it's just a new
01:15:40
personality lots of people find it easy
01:15:41
to talk about normal [ __ ] you know
01:15:43
whereas a lot of people I mean John's
01:15:45
very guarded he's very personal and
01:15:47
private and you know I had to
01:15:48
acknowledge that in the book that you
01:15:50
know um I mean it does come out looking
01:15:53
like Prince Charming but you know the
01:15:55
whole business thing was hard for him
01:15:57
and then I thought but that's just life
01:15:59
but we deal with things differently you
01:16:01
know some people are very private and
01:16:02
personal and um you know like to don't
01:16:06
like to share things whereas I overshare
01:16:09
so that's not necessarily always a good
01:16:11
thing either yeah do do you cry much you
01:16:14
much of a
01:16:18
crier well I don't not going to walk out
01:16:20
of here and burst into tears um yeah I
01:16:23
cry in movies and funerals and but I
01:16:26
don't just sit there and bl yeah yeah sh
01:16:29
you're a tough cookie aren't you do you
01:16:30
think part of this is just being being
01:16:31
surrounded by so much male
01:16:33
energy um I think I'm my mother's
01:16:36
daughter you strong and tough and you
01:16:39
know whatever oh your mom yeah sh we
01:16:41
haven't even got to your got to your mom
01:16:43
yet I was going to um talk about
01:16:46
celebrity treasure Islander but then
01:16:47
there's some bits and pieces and your
01:16:48
mom fits under that category like
01:16:49
there's one story in particular like you
01:16:51
her being in hospital when you were 12
01:16:52
and you taking a box of beers her which
01:16:55
she stashed under the hospital bed it's
01:16:57
amazing well I laughed about that cuz as
01:16:58
I said I'm looking after my helping look
01:17:00
after my brother and his um wife whove
01:17:03
had a unfortunate series of events and
01:17:06
we were talking about that the other day
01:17:07
cuz they've got the hospital beds set up
01:17:09
in their Lounge you know delivered by
01:17:11
ACC and all that stuff and I looked
01:17:13
under the bed and I said oh that's where
01:17:14
the creat a bear that M you know I mean
01:17:16
she just Rings me at home on the phone
01:17:18
hello oh Susan can you get the crate of
01:17:20
DB put it on the rally 20 get one of
01:17:23
those bungee tubes tied up and off I
01:17:25
went up the um you know up the track
01:17:28
through down D Street up to the private
01:17:30
hospital and you know they had those oh
01:17:32
so so it wasn't even a box of beers it
01:17:34
was like a a crate of Jack the mus
01:17:35
bottles crate of big bottles
01:17:38
yeah um is so you so this was like 50
01:17:41
years ago almost so you were 12 12 years
01:17:43
old it's funny cuz yeah uh I'm I'm like
01:17:46
10 years younger than you but yeah mom
01:17:47
used to send me to the the dairy to buy
01:17:49
a pack of smokes for her and it's a
01:17:50
different time imagine walking into the
01:17:52
hospital now 12-year-old girl with a I
01:17:54
know I know and it's like um you know it
01:17:57
was I mean that's the funny story that
01:17:59
the first time I took John home to meet
01:18:01
my parents we lived in a state house and
01:18:03
P cant and Ro and my parents were heavy
01:18:05
smokers and he walked in there and it
01:18:07
was like 11:00 in the morning I just
01:18:08
picked him up from the airport and he
01:18:10
walked in he said we could see with this
01:18:12
Haze of smoke and you know my parents
01:18:14
got up the their daughter's you know
01:18:16
first real boyfriend and sit down son
01:18:19
would you like a beer and he thought oh
01:18:20
God these these big DB quart bottles on
01:18:23
the thing at 11:00 in the morning you
01:18:24
thought might be rude not to but yeah
01:18:26
that's sort of like um yeah they were
01:18:29
they were hard doers not here for a long
01:18:31
time but here for a good time all right
01:18:34
let's talk about celebrity Treasure
01:18:35
Island for a bit so first of all why you
01:18:37
get asked to go on it why did why did
01:18:38
you say yes you got nothing to prove to
01:18:40
anyone was it just an are you at that
01:18:42
stage of life where you're like oh this
01:18:44
is a new opportunity and may as well
01:18:46
give it a go I sort of immediately
01:18:48
thought no when I was asked when Chris
01:18:50
Hayden rang me and you know that one of
01:18:52
those examples of something completely
01:18:54
out of the blue and then I went home and
01:18:55
I talked about it to John and
01:18:57
whatever and our son Elder son and his
01:19:01
partner were living with us at the time
01:19:03
and she was like oh yeah yeah yeah yeah
01:19:04
you could do that you know whatever and
01:19:06
they must have watched a few shows and
01:19:07
thought whatever and
01:19:10
um I sort of thought if I they sort of
01:19:13
convinced me to say yes but I also
01:19:15
thought if I say no I'm never going to
01:19:16
be asked again you know it's like
01:19:19
um and the funny thing was they I think
01:19:23
the producers thought that I'd never go
01:19:24
go on something like that because I
01:19:26
don't know what the perception of who I
01:19:27
am or what I might be like is um and
01:19:30
then I
01:19:32
thought ah yeah I'm only going to be
01:19:34
there for a few days surely I can do
01:19:35
that you know tough it out for a couple
01:19:38
of days I didn't imagine that I'd be on
01:19:39
there too long so yeah I
01:19:41
um reluctantly agreed to do it so who
01:19:45
who was on who were some of the stars on
01:19:46
your series and who won that series uh
01:19:48
it all sort of blows into one there's so
01:19:50
many people on these shows does that
01:19:51
Jesse chuk won it oh yeah um and iner
01:19:55
the Winger he was he was uh oh that was
01:19:56
that was a tragedy about it yeah cuz
01:19:59
iner died before those show
01:20:01
started Mike King Mike King's
01:20:04
Daughter um oh that's right you told M
01:20:07
what did you you told Mike King to shut
01:20:08
the [ __ ] up well not quite like that not
01:20:11
quite like that um no I didn't but you
01:20:13
know Mike came out he was he was being
01:20:15
very obnoxious on that I we were texting
01:20:17
backwards and forwards after that and he
01:20:18
said I I just can't I I realized I can't
01:20:20
go on shows like this anymore cuz it
01:20:21
brings out the ego in me and it brings
01:20:23
back a person that I'm not anymore and I
01:20:25
don't want to be anymore so I think he
01:20:27
sort of had regs have you had him on the
01:20:28
show about that yeah yeah oh no I think
01:20:30
I had him on the the podcast pre right
01:20:33
celebrity Treasure Island but um I like
01:20:35
Mike and I like the work he does yeah
01:20:37
yeah yeah well this government is
01:20:38
certainly supporting M and the work he
01:20:40
does yeah I just found it a bit odd that
01:20:42
someone who's
01:20:45
um someone who's Works in that whole era
01:20:48
of mental health had a bit of a go at
01:20:50
everyone yeah you know yeah I think it
01:20:52
had quite an impact on people right I
01:20:54
think think it really did you know and
01:20:56
I'm not sure he he understands no I
01:20:59
think yeah yeah the way he sort of
01:21:00
described it to me is like ah you know I
01:21:02
think he just has this ego or performer
01:21:04
that comes out of him and yeah so he
01:21:06
just can't put himself I sorry for Alex
01:21:07
you know his daughter in there because
01:21:09
you know I
01:21:10
mean yeah anyway it it was what it it is
01:21:13
what it is and um it was what it was but
01:21:16
um but you enjoyed the experience mostly
01:21:18
and hindsight um yeah yeah hindsight
01:21:22
hindsight would be well I went and did
01:21:24
it again so so what hindsight is a great
01:21:26
thing yeah I think I
01:21:28
um I hated it for the first week I just
01:21:31
was desperate to go home you know if I
01:21:35
wasn't the captain someone would sent me
01:21:36
off and then no one would send me off
01:21:37
because I wasn't even much of a threat
01:21:39
you know um but yeah yeah I think in
01:21:42
hindsight I it it's it's a as Alvis Leti
01:21:44
said it's a silly silly silly silly show
01:21:47
and that's the only way you can take it
01:21:49
some people took it far too seriously
01:21:51
and you know and look you throw people
01:21:54
together who are hungry and tired and
01:21:57
you know you're bound to have some
01:21:59
meltdowns aren't you and some
01:22:00
personality clashes that's just happens
01:22:02
a normal life and that certainly
01:22:03
happened on there but um yeah there were
01:22:06
some unlikely friendships that I formed
01:22:08
you know and I loved Bri the presenter
01:22:12
Bri Thomas yeah she's a great human She
01:22:14
Wonderful she is she is amazing and
01:22:16
we've stayed in touch I loved cam mens
01:22:18
all the young you know and people that I
01:22:20
would never Lance sarley you know I'd
01:22:23
never met met up or had contact or
01:22:27
formed connections with people like that
01:22:28
and so you know for one month of my life
01:22:31
I felt that I was quite
01:22:33
young yeah there was some amazing
01:22:35
highlights um or maybe low lights I
01:22:37
don't know there was the I remember that
01:22:39
very clearly the T from episode where
01:22:40
you sort of plunk yourself down in the
01:22:41
sand it was almost like a total of 10
01:22:43
from in away um was that just like pure
01:22:46
raar what was that it was it was raining
01:22:48
right was terrible we'd been up all
01:22:50
night and it actually was quite scary I
01:22:52
mean as you say I'm pretty tough but I
01:22:54
really thought that you know a beam was
01:22:55
going to fall off our Hut and it
01:22:58
was you know it was sort of storm
01:23:01
weather I mean like cyclone and I got
01:23:04
everyone up and I knew that there was a
01:23:05
little place up there I'd seen it on my
01:23:07
travels that we we all bunked down there
01:23:08
and then we got told off to go back and
01:23:10
then in the middle of that with rough
01:23:12
Seas knowing how petrified I'm in the
01:23:14
water they make us do a bloody swimming
01:23:15
challenge I mean these producers I've
01:23:19
just started watching Married at First
01:23:20
Sight I have to oh it's addictive isn't
01:23:22
it my God I never watched but I've been
01:23:24
helping you know at night we sit down
01:23:26
and watch this rubbish and it is and
01:23:28
it's like you can just see having been
01:23:30
on a reality television show what the
01:23:32
producers make people do they push it
01:23:34
they push the buttons that's a formula
01:23:36
you've got to be I mean it's all
01:23:38
dictated to by the story producers you
01:23:40
know and whatever and they um luckily I
01:23:43
like the story producers on Celebrity
01:23:44
treasure on they were really good um in
01:23:46
fact probably wasn't for them I might
01:23:48
have just spack the dummy and
01:23:50
volunteered or walked off seemed Mike
01:23:52
could walk off and everyone else could
01:23:54
um but yeah it is um you just got to be
01:23:57
aware of that you know not to be so
01:23:59
naive that that's but again I didn't
01:24:01
watch it I never watched a single show
01:24:03
of it so I don't know what I come like I
01:24:05
W down the next day people say but it
01:24:07
doesn't it doesn't even matter anyway
01:24:08
it's um for people that watch it it's
01:24:09
big news online for a couple of days and
01:24:11
then people move on and forget about it
01:24:13
but the the but the Tantrum thing where
01:24:14
you plunk yourself down in the sand um
01:24:17
yeah at the time I I suppose it's like
01:24:20
all encompassing it feels like this
01:24:21
things your entire life you know you
01:24:23
it's your whole sort of bubble I guess
01:24:25
yeah I mean I think at that stage I was
01:24:27
just exhausted I actually couldn't
01:24:28
believe that they just left us there
01:24:30
that nobody had come down to check that
01:24:32
we were okay I mean we would might even
01:24:35
go to the so far to say as we were quite
01:24:37
scared you know and I was like oh well
01:24:39
you're just a bit of the talent you know
01:24:42
off you go we're the important people
01:24:43
here um but that you know I knew we were
01:24:46
going I think it was the thing that
01:24:47
going in the water cuz I hate water it's
01:24:49
like yeah you had a near near drining
01:24:51
incident as young and I just have never
01:24:53
yeah and know it's just not my thing and
01:24:55
I thought God um anything else well
01:24:59
nearly virtually not no not anything
01:25:01
else but a lot of other things I could
01:25:02
cope with but that was just you know but
01:25:04
um yeah and and the other thing is you
01:25:07
forget you're on TV don't you you're
01:25:08
just living in the moment and it's pissy
01:25:10
off so yeah and there were some amazing
01:25:13
um Dame Susan devoy quotes and I I I
01:25:15
think this is some of the things you
01:25:17
said it's just like language that you
01:25:19
don't expect from a Dame whatever that
01:25:20
means um like um what was there oh you
01:25:24
you were talking about a pum and you
01:25:25
said um Jim's got a big veg yeah yeah
01:25:28
well again I didn't forgot that would go
01:25:31
on television but this is the real Susan
01:25:34
Dey we're seeing this is no not really
01:25:36
no not really um you're not embarrassed
01:25:39
by that well on National Television yeah
01:25:42
someone told me I said that that's the
01:25:43
sort of thing that Susan would say after
01:25:45
she had a few wines but the problem is
01:25:47
over there there weren't a few wines so
01:25:48
that's what came all piss holes in the
01:25:49
snow and all that sort of thing but um
01:25:52
yeah and I nearly blew a Fufu valve yeah
01:25:54
I think that's what I think people
01:25:56
thought that was quite outrageous but
01:25:58
generally that's probably pretty much me
01:26:01
actually yeah I think it's good on you
01:26:03
for you know agreeing to do it because
01:26:06
it's you know it's very easy as you get
01:26:07
I think as you get older like I'm I'm 10
01:26:09
years younger than you but you can
01:26:11
either say what the [ __ ] and say yes to
01:26:13
things or just be closed off and you you
01:26:16
know you can get more fearful as you get
01:26:17
older um I I think I can be both on any
01:26:20
given day it depends you how I feel when
01:26:22
I you're not that old watch till you get
01:26:23
to my age then you really know about it
01:26:26
do you feel old I do I do feel I don't
01:26:30
yeah know I do feel old because as I
01:26:31
said I can't do a lot of things
01:26:34
um yeah yeah well when I say do I feel
01:26:37
60 no do I behave like I'm 60 no uh but
01:26:41
am I 60
01:26:42
years you know and it's like um so do
01:26:45
you think it's how other people treat
01:26:46
you or just is it something internally
01:26:48
it's just something internally I know I
01:26:50
I never thought that I'd be that
01:26:51
pathetic about an age you know it's like
01:26:53
um and it's all recent so I'm coming to
01:26:55
terms with it I'm sure in a month or two
01:26:57
when I'm 60 and a half I'll have got
01:26:59
over that and I'll be you know down the
01:27:02
other side and then I feel very selfish
01:27:04
because people say to me you're lucky
01:27:05
you got that phone and then I am
01:27:07
reminded actually that not everyone gets
01:27:09
the privilege of living and or and in
01:27:11
good health yeah that's true aging is
01:27:13
better than the alternative exactly and
01:27:15
in good health and still with lots of
01:27:17
opportunities and things like that so I
01:27:19
you know have to tell myself that um and
01:27:22
a little reminder to be grateful yeah I
01:27:25
I think you're doing great and you could
01:27:26
still run another rotor room Marathon if
01:27:28
that's what you wanted to do I believe
01:27:29
in you yeah well I might might run jog
01:27:31
run jog are you running it um oh no
01:27:33
you'll be in Paris of course no I'm
01:27:34
doing Paris and then youve got this one
01:27:36
called the root B classic which is a
01:27:37
trail run I've never done Road run but
01:27:39
it's I feel like it's one of those
01:27:40
iconic New Zealand runs that I do need
01:27:42
to do at some point so the root bur is
01:27:44
57k no no it's like 32ks but it's quite
01:27:48
Steep and I did the last year it's
01:27:49
gorgeous bloody good um okay some bits
01:27:52
and pieces then you can be dismissed um
01:27:56
there's there's a story that I've heard
01:27:57
I don't know if this um is something
01:27:59
that you've mentioned at some public
01:28:01
speaking engagements but a couple of
01:28:02
people um asked me to ask you about the
01:28:05
uh Rose bow trophy story
01:28:09
H you've been reading my old book
01:28:11
haven't you you're just lying about the
01:28:13
other people asking each other move on
01:28:15
move on you can tell that one yourself
01:28:17
move on move
01:28:19
on Corum here move on okay okay what is
01:28:22
the roseall trophy by the way what what
01:28:23
one do you win that in oh I can't
01:28:25
remember no to long story short I won a
01:28:29
I think I won the South Australian Open
01:28:31
and I won a the the trophy is a Rose
01:28:34
Bowl it's not the Rose Bowl trophy the
01:28:36
trophy is in the shape of a Rose Bowl
01:28:38
you know so it's a bowl on a stand and I
01:28:41
was billeted in the following week in
01:28:42
the Australian Open this is just to go
01:28:45
show how unglamorous being a
01:28:47
professional squash player was in my day
01:28:49
so I was bued with a sort of a oh I
01:28:53
don't know um how would you describe
01:28:55
them a ramshackle family that lived in
01:28:58
the [ __ ] wops he was so delighted to have
01:29:00
a world champion come and stay at their
01:29:02
house that they gave the parents gave up
01:29:04
their bed for me and they slept on the
01:29:08
lounge floor while I could have their
01:29:09
bed the only problem was they had an
01:29:11
outside toilet and nature called in the
01:29:14
middle of the night and I was too
01:29:15
embarrassed to go out to the outside
01:29:18
toilet and crawl over the people parents
01:29:21
in the land awkward so I did try opening
01:29:23
the windows but they had those mosquito
01:29:26
Nets to attach the wall so I relieved
01:29:29
myself in my Rose Bowl
01:29:31
trophy and then the next day covered it
01:29:34
with a towel and disposed of thing and
01:29:37
someone I told that story and someone
01:29:38
said well that's the last time I ever
01:29:42
drun it's it's a great story it's just
01:29:45
so refreshing and I think the thing I
01:29:47
like about this the most do do you know
01:29:48
ASA Scott at all ASA Scott she's from
01:29:50
toonga she's a really big star she's in
01:29:52
a Bravo show called low deck oh of
01:29:55
course I do yes but she's she's got
01:29:58
stories like that that she tells and
01:29:59
I've had her on the podcast and I said
01:30:01
no one in the world would know about
01:30:02
these humiliating stories but apart from
01:30:04
the fact that you've chosen to share
01:30:05
them this is exactly the same with you
01:30:07
with this story it's like no one needed
01:30:09
to know about this and it's so
01:30:11
refreshing and awesome that you I mean
01:30:13
it's very natural when you go you got to
01:30:15
go seem like the obvious thing to do
01:30:17
doing on the
01:30:18
floor or holding on forever and then the
01:30:21
next morning let you smuggle it out or
01:30:24
just put my towel over it and pretend it
01:30:25
was my toilet bag and put under my arm
01:30:28
and it's so good thank you very much for
01:30:31
sharing um oh so there's the Devo squash
01:30:35
and fitness center how as someone that's
01:30:37
never going to have a building named
01:30:38
after them how does it feel when you
01:30:40
when you drive past when you walk into
01:30:41
that
01:30:42
building um does it feel special or
01:30:44
significant it would have done the first
01:30:46
few times I'd imagine but does it yeah I
01:30:48
think when at first open and I was there
01:30:50
all the time you know we lived around
01:30:51
the corner and our boys were playing and
01:30:53
it was sort of like our second home or
01:30:54
their second home anyway um then we've
01:30:57
moved to the mounts I don't get there as
01:30:58
often and I'm not as involved in the
01:31:00
club as I used to but certainly yeah I
01:31:02
mean
01:31:03
it's you sort of take it for granted
01:31:05
really a little bit and then you walk in
01:31:06
there and you realize [ __ ] that
01:31:07
building's got my name on it and um yeah
01:31:10
what a it's the best scor club in New
01:31:12
Zealand and what a legacy really and I
01:31:13
was involved in the um you know one of
01:31:16
the main Main Stays of the project group
01:31:19
that built it and raised the money for
01:31:21
it and did whatever and and it's where
01:31:24
squash is going in the future so it's
01:31:26
pretty cool and you know for me um I
01:31:30
didn't touch on it much in the book but
01:31:31
squash has made the Olympics now so and
01:31:33
I'm on the world squash board so that
01:31:34
means our Sports been catapulted to a
01:31:37
whole different Stratosphere and that's
01:31:38
when you talk about opportunities that
01:31:40
just come out of the blue I didn't think
01:31:42
that was going to happen and so now I've
01:31:44
going to get my teeth into making sure
01:31:45
that we um you know that we you got to
01:31:49
be three cycles of Olympics before you
01:31:51
become a full Olympic sport in Los
01:31:53
Angeles 28 is our first thing and you
01:31:56
know what Joelle might still be playing
01:31:59
I see she had an she's had an article in
01:32:01
her magazine saying she might still be
01:32:02
playing but she'll be 39 or 40 oh she'll
01:32:05
be hanging on right if you're if you're
01:32:06
in yeah but Paul Cole will still be
01:32:08
playing you know if he doesn't get
01:32:09
injured or something happens to him um
01:32:11
he's got to stop doing those silly
01:32:12
Superman Dives no he's got to keep doing
01:32:14
those silly Superman Dives because
01:32:15
that's what's going to make our sport
01:32:17
look amazing and you know he
01:32:19
is he is just the most amazing athlete
01:32:24
in terms of probably one of the fittest
01:32:26
athletes in the world and just a super
01:32:28
super super amazing guy from Greymouth
01:32:30
New Zealand who's you know
01:32:33
become has been a world a British Open
01:32:36
Champion got to number one in the world
01:32:37
and just keeps fighting and in an era
01:32:40
where squash is probably the strongest
01:32:41
it's ever ever ever been so you know if
01:32:44
I can be part of that Journey um that's
01:32:47
something um you know pretty fantastic
01:32:50
when Bill Clinton finds out it's an
01:32:51
Olympic sport he's going to be like that
01:32:53
lady lied to me me well Bill will
01:32:55
probably ring me for tickets he'll
01:32:57
probably say you knows yeah yeah I think
01:32:59
the thing with the bll story that I
01:33:00
forgot to say which was the key part was
01:33:02
that um when he looked at me and you
01:33:03
know I realized I'd made a blue I
01:33:06
thought well he's told a couple of great
01:33:07
big pork his life hasn't got away with
01:33:10
it isn't it yeah that's true um and Kane
01:33:12
Williamson there's a story about Kane
01:33:14
Williamson in your book which is amazing
01:33:16
one of the one of the greatest New
01:33:17
Zealand cricketers ever well funny
01:33:20
enough our boys went to toong and boys
01:33:21
college and um Peter Berling was the
01:33:24
sports Captain one year Kane Williamson
01:33:27
was the sports Captain the next year
01:33:31
and and Sam Kane had a year playing for
01:33:34
the first 15 and Kane came and babysit
01:33:37
when I was working at sportb plenty and
01:33:39
I was I sent the two oldest cuz I
01:33:41
thought you know 15y old boy's going to
01:33:42
might struggle with four kids and he
01:33:44
came and looked after the two youngest
01:33:45
you know and of course they thought it
01:33:46
was Heaven because he was a good rugby
01:33:48
player as well Kane so he could he would
01:33:50
spend hours out them with booting a ball
01:33:53
and you know bowling and batting one day
01:33:55
he wanted me to he asked if he could
01:33:57
take them to the beach and I thought not
01:33:58
so sure about that that might be a
01:34:00
recipe for disaster but yeah um yeah no
01:34:04
it's uh yeah those are just you know
01:34:07
sort
01:34:08
of Great Men aren't they you know Kane
01:34:12
and and Peter Burling and all of those
01:34:14
guys just amazing uh yeah amazing men
01:34:17
and amazing Sports people do can you
01:34:20
remember what you paid Kane was it a
01:34:21
volunteer job or like 10 bucks an hour
01:34:23
him I would have paid him I mean I mean
01:34:26
I mean he doesn't need it now he's not
01:34:27
going to no his mom his mom worked at
01:34:30
the school I think she might still work
01:34:31
at the school at toer boys actually and
01:34:33
and his dad is his passion you know a
01:34:35
passionate Cricket who's you know
01:34:37
coached some of our boys and done
01:34:38
whatever but you know it just goes to
01:34:40
show you know they're just people and
01:34:43
they're just Champion people as well as
01:34:44
being Champion Sports people and I think
01:34:46
in the end of the day that's what you're
01:34:47
going to be remembered for isn't it yeah
01:34:49
you know I don't think you'll be I mean
01:34:51
that's what I would like to think that
01:34:53
I'm remembered as being a good person
01:34:54
not just a great squash player not that
01:34:57
everyone would think I'm a good person
01:34:58
but you know those that matter would I
01:35:00
don't know I you're very
01:35:01
self-deprecating but I think everyone
01:35:02
knows you're a good person you've been
01:35:03
very alteristic like you've done um you
01:35:05
touch touch upon this probably not in as
01:35:07
much detail as what you should in your
01:35:09
new book um but there's been a lot of
01:35:11
time that you've given over the years to
01:35:13
a lot of different organizations I think
01:35:15
that's something that you know if I was
01:35:17
to have one regret or I'm only I don't
01:35:19
have many but uh I have you know I don't
01:35:22
you can't write about that you can't say
01:35:23
well I'm a legion and I've done this
01:35:24
this and this and this and this but I
01:35:26
have given up a lot of time and I wish
01:35:28
now and I some people have said to me
01:35:31
it's not too late but it probably is I
01:35:33
wish I'd set up my own Foundation you
01:35:35
know that I'd done my own thing that I
01:35:38
could have some control about I've done
01:35:39
a lot for others and and then stepped
01:35:42
aside which I think is a strength you
01:35:44
sometimes to know when you've it's as
01:35:46
much a strength to know when to get off
01:35:47
things as to stay on but um yeah I've
01:35:50
been toying with the idea of setting up
01:35:51
a foundation for young squash players
01:35:54
um not for young squash players but to
01:35:56
get young people involved in squash that
01:35:58
perhaps you know not necessarily can
01:35:59
afford the sport or you know get to it
01:36:02
and whatever so Never Say Never I
01:36:04
suppose and and finally are are you
01:36:07
proud of yourself yeah yeah yeah yeah I
01:36:12
am I'm proud that I finally made it to
01:36:14
Dom's broadcast I Think Jesus I got it
01:36:18
done I don't have to be hassled anymore
01:36:20
um oh I know you're only sort of
01:36:23
partially joking but I feel like there
01:36:25
might be a little bit of Truth in there
01:36:27
there is um yeah no I amum of course I'm
01:36:30
proud of myself why wouldn't you be I
01:36:31
haven't I've done more good things than
01:36:33
bad things I haven't been perfect um but
01:36:36
I love I love the imperfect things about
01:36:38
me too actually and um yeah but as I say
01:36:42
I just hope my boys are proud of me they
01:36:43
may not be at the moment but they will
01:36:45
eventually yeah I hope they don't love
01:36:47
why do you think they wouldn't be proud
01:36:48
of you now well I think there I mean I'm
01:36:50
not um you know it's just cuz you're M
01:36:52
and you're embarrassed yeah yeah okay
01:36:54
yeah oh and also we we don't agree on
01:36:57
everything you know it's and that's
01:36:59
healthy um but yeah yeah and it's hard
01:37:03
to please all of the people all the time
01:37:04
but yeah I think they'd be proud of both
01:37:06
their parents you know and and what
01:37:09
we've done and the great relationships
01:37:10
we have is really cool but um you know
01:37:13
they've got to pave their own way in the
01:37:14
world now and as my husband keeps
01:37:16
reminding
01:37:17
me well Dam Susan deoy it's um it's been
01:37:21
an incredible life um first first 30
01:37:24
years I feel like that's the you the
01:37:25
growing up years and the Squash years um
01:37:27
the second 30 years there's been so much
01:37:29
that's happened in there lots of
01:37:30
surprising twists and tunes and um all
01:37:33
going well in terms of longevity and
01:37:34
stuff hopefully this is just the
01:37:36
beginning of the you know the the the
01:37:38
third the third part of your life well
01:37:40
you and I'll be sitting here as you keep
01:37:42
reminding me that you're 10 years
01:37:43
younger than me you keep reminding me
01:37:44
that repeatedly during this segment I
01:37:47
have many times I many years many times
01:37:50
we'll be sitting here I'll be 90 and
01:37:51
you'll be 80 we'll be like Warren
01:37:53
Buffett Charlie manga you know from the
01:37:54
book heway ual Jal meeting apparently
01:37:57
we'll be sitting here saying and you'll
01:37:58
be saying oh I could bet I can still run
01:38:01
around Victoria Park faster than you can
01:38:03
season oh no it's it wasn't I would love
01:38:06
to be able to do that it's it's it's not
01:38:08
a flex or a brag I mean we're both old
01:38:10
as [ __ ] but um I I find aging like quite
01:38:12
exciting in a way like there's I can
01:38:14
still do the things that I want to do
01:38:16
and I say you're looking very good nick
01:38:19
for a 50-year-old and obviously the
01:38:21
running is part of that isn't it yeah as
01:38:23
to you as to you you look fit and
01:38:25
healthy and vibrant yeah yeah yeah well
01:38:28
thank you Dom I'm going to really it's
01:38:29
made my
01:38:31
day well thank you very much thanks so
01:38:33
much for for your time sorry that I
01:38:35
underestimated the time it was going to
01:38:37
take um but you knew that all along
01:38:39
didn't you you're such a f once you get
01:38:41
people in here you got them stuck yeah
01:38:43
well you're such a fascinating person
01:38:44
like there's so much to your story and
01:38:46
there's so much wi wisdom that you can
01:38:47
impart on others it's been an honor to
01:38:50
sit down with you and get to pick your
01:38:51
brains for a little bit same all right
01:38:53
cheers she enjoyed it she said same
01:38:56
let's
01:38:57
[Music]
01:39:12
go
