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g'day thank you very much for joining me
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for this week's episode of Runners only
00:00:03
with dom Harvey coming up Nikki k for me
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it was like I was hovering over my own
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body going this isn't like this is not
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[ __ ] happening and this is not me and
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this is not
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you know then I was incredibly upset and
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so I rang Paula and um she said we'll
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have to get the PM by himself because
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it'll knock him over a bit so we'll
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we'll get him when he's out of some of
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the stuff anyway he rang a bit earlier
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and I said look I offered my resignation
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um from cabinet and he just said you're
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not [ __ ] going anywhere Nikki K is
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best known as being the former deputy
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leader of the national party but she is
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so much more than that she's done the
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coast to coast multi-sport event a few
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times and was even an age group running
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champ in her teens that came after her
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marijuana phase we'll get into that
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she's many more things as well she's a
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cancer survivor this was a shock
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diagnosis that she got when she was a
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cabinet minister in John Key's
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government and yeah she was a politician
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and you know what they say once a
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politician always a politician so I need
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to warn you she does her very best to
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avoid saying too much but I did give it
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a red hot crack actually you know what
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that's probably a little unfair um she
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was quite guarded about a lot of stuff
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especially stuff that involved other
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people but when it came to the really
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important stuff like the cancer mental
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well-being and therapy she could not
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have been more open than what she was
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and I really thank her for that I really
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enjoyed my afternoon with Nikki K and I
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hope you guys do as well all right let's
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get into it
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[Music]
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fast-paced slow and steady anyway you
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coming up just wanna connect for
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everyone who loves running this is
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fast paced slow and steady anyway you
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coming just wanna connect for everyone
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who loves running hey Runners only with
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dime Harley
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Runners only with gum Harvey and Nikki K
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hello welcome to my podcast Lounge
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so how are you Nikki Kay I'm good I'm
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really good actually yeah it's been I
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mean it's been
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um a sort of set of people uh sort of
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ripped up the former life like he
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couldn't really
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do more than kind of resign your job
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sold my house bought some land on the
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barrier
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and then sort of basically changed
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everything up so that can so there's
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sort of been uncertainty and there's
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been some tough times but overall I'm
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very very relaxed and very good yeah you
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look really good like I I just greeted
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you outside before and you're looking
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casual you got last time I saw you I
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guess it was um probably on TV and the
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most stressed out time of your career
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you know the final seven weeks is Deputy
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leader of national and you look like a
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completely different person now yeah it
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was it was yeah I mean it was obviously
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a pretty difficult time
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um and it's so much stress so physically
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now you know you just everything from
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exercise to nutrition yeah just just
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relaxed well that's really good I'm I'm
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really really happy for you there's
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there's um so much for us to talk about
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yes uh first of all the podcast is
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called Runners only and um you I mean
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you've done a lot over the years you've
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done multi-sport events you've done
00:03:14
Coast to Coast have you done an Iron Man
00:03:16
no no I've done um lazy yeah no I'm
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bloody lazy I'd love to I'd love to but
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I can't I think I swim like I don't know
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a bang leg like I
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don't think I'm a very good swimmer and
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also
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I thought oh yeah maybe one day I could
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do the kind of Iron Man then I realized
00:03:37
like that's like full-on you have to
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actually qualify for some of these right
00:03:41
yeah it's so hot apparently it would be
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amazing the way it's like the Holy Grail
00:03:44
yeah yeah yeah I mean I think
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right um but the experience of going
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places so my mate and I
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um well she reckons she's into that us
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but we're on a waiting list for the
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Antarctica
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um Mark I wouldn't love to do that but
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it's real it's bloody expensive yeah do
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you go to Chile you go down on a boat I
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think from Chile but I was actually just
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looking at my emails because it said
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that we were like well waitlisted or
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whatever for I think next year but um I
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think it's really hard to get into but
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that whole thing about
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um
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doing more experiences when I'm doing
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events and so I kind of think that's
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kind of probably how I plot although I
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am today I
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um put an entry in for a ballot for a
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Mountain Run Spot for the coast to coast
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so oh cool yeah awesome that's um yeah
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goats past that's an incredible well
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it's not really a runner that it's like
00:04:44
a screen scrambling over rocks and going
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through Rivers more of a climb swim
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depending on the
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um on the conditions I think I was just
00:04:53
trying to think how many times I've done
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it I've done the Run
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because four times but again it's so
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beautiful the thing about the coast to
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coast is you meet a lot of people who
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have kind of been through a lot like I
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remember I was
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um
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running at the bottom of goats passed
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across the boulders through the river
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and I saw this glint in the distance and
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Australian very sorry for myself you
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know you feel the pain you feel burned
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and I saw this guy and I got closer to
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him and he had one leg
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and so he was going up go past with a
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metal like a metal stump so yeah right
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he didn't make it I think that year but
00:05:38
other years I think he has made it but
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it just sort of unreal it's that kind of
00:05:42
race where you meet incredible
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yeah it gives you some perspective it
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does yeah it does and like I meet people
00:05:49
like
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we were like oh sort of you know I had
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no idea about this but um you were no
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slouch like when you were at school you
00:05:56
were like the uh the Auckland or the New
00:05:57
Zealand 3000 meter champ
00:06:00
what's the time can you remember your
00:06:01
time what about like 10 minutes
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uh pass right how do you not remember
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that that's a that's a hell of an
00:06:09
achievement I think I actually came
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second but the other person was
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disqualified drugs I don't know but and
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then I bumped it bumped up right right
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so not that that's a defense for not
00:06:20
remembering my time yeah
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um but yeah I mean I you know I wasn't
00:06:25
um I was pretty naughty at school and
00:06:26
then basically I don't believe that no I
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was actually you were here prefect at
00:06:31
one of you but I was I was naughty like
00:06:33
when I was 13 or 14 and actually I went
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to my principal and said I'm Gonna Leave
00:06:37
because I'm kind of over this or
00:06:39
whatever and she said I believe in you
00:06:41
and that's when I actually sort of
00:06:42
started running
00:06:43
and and that gave me quite a lot of
00:06:46
confidence right yeah it was sort of
00:06:48
running what running gave me a level of
00:06:51
confidence in life that I hadn't had
00:06:52
before well how well what's um Nikki
00:06:54
Kane already like were you were you were
00:06:56
you betting younger kids with a beard
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lick no
00:06:58
topical no I didn't I think um when they
00:07:03
asked they went through all MPS and
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asked them you know
00:07:07
smoke dope
00:07:09
yeah and then they're like what age and
00:07:12
I said
00:07:13
um 14 and if the headline was minister
00:07:17
of I think was minister or associate
00:07:18
minister of Education smoke marijuana or
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14. he says like I mean yeah I was I was
00:07:24
yeah I was naughty right that was I mean
00:07:27
but everyone's have experiments don't
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they I mean it's probably quite young to
00:07:30
be smoking a week yeah yeah I don't know
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I feel like it wouldn't even be a big
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deal now like a big deal obviously when
00:07:35
you went into Parliament but less of a
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big deal now I don't know I don't know
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but I mean I was just I think I was just
00:07:42
a bit angry with the world really why
00:07:45
um my parents flew up when I was quite
00:07:47
young okay and um but how young uh seven
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right
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um and at that age do you have if it
00:07:55
happens when you're older it means more
00:07:57
or is it like it's quite exciting a
00:07:59
novelty thing at seven like you get two
00:08:00
houses two bedrooms I think everybody's
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different it was pretty tough
00:08:06
um and so I didn't see that much of my
00:08:09
dad for quite a long time
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um and
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um yeah I mean it's sort of I I remember
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it being pretty tough
00:08:17
um there's a lot of a lot of things that
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went on and so I think in my sort of
00:08:22
teenage years I had grown up pretty
00:08:25
quickly that's hard to look at it and I
00:08:26
just felt
00:08:28
no one really understands me which is a
00:08:31
what a lot I mean I think a lot of
00:08:32
people go through I've got I've got
00:08:33
nieces and nephews
00:08:35
um and I was saying look I think the
00:08:38
biggest thing in life that I've learned
00:08:40
is
00:08:41
that being able to cope with change so
00:08:44
it's not always going to go your way
00:08:47
um but how can you deal with uncertainty
00:08:50
and be able to kind of often there are
00:08:53
sort of transitions in life and deal
00:08:54
with deal with that change yeah yeah so
00:08:57
I mean sort of a bit of a Cheesy way to
00:08:59
look at it but I'm grateful for a lot of
00:09:01
the things that occurred because I think
00:09:03
you kind of
00:09:04
you you often if you've been through any
00:09:08
pain you have more compassion um yeah
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and it probably gives you some
00:09:13
resilience as well I guess to her yeah
00:09:15
yeah to a degree totally
00:09:17
why did you not see Dad for a while were
00:09:19
things just super strained with him and
00:09:20
your mum or is it like a taking side
00:09:22
sort of thing or um well then you've
00:09:25
only spoken a couple of times
00:09:28
since I was seven oh [ __ ] is that right
00:09:31
yeah how many how many kids do they have
00:09:32
together
00:09:35
sad isn't it yeah
00:09:40
yeah that's what it is yeah you can say
00:09:41
it don't roll your eyes
00:09:43
yeah I mean Jazz has been married um
00:09:48
several times and I have a lot of half
00:09:49
siblings
00:09:51
um for Brother full sister and so yeah
00:09:53
it means I mean there's a whole lot of
00:09:55
other richness of
00:09:57
of relationships that have happened as a
00:10:00
result of that for instance
00:10:02
um at the moment I've got called Emmy
00:10:05
who are my um little half sisters and
00:10:08
then I've got
00:10:09
um Kate as well and Jamie and Rebecca
00:10:14
and Simon Australia so you know it's
00:10:16
it's it's yeah you get a whole lot of
00:10:18
other richness that comes from it and
00:10:20
you're good with the old man now I
00:10:22
haven't seen that much of him over the
00:10:23
years but I'm I've got also I was sort
00:10:27
of brought up more by my stepfather
00:10:28
through my um mum's been with since I
00:10:31
was 10. and and he's been pretty
00:10:34
incredible in terms of my life so you
00:10:37
know it's a typical mix family there's
00:10:40
complexity around all that stuff but I
00:10:43
certainly think
00:10:44
it helped when I was in Parliament
00:10:47
because I think I
00:10:49
could see a lot of different family
00:10:51
situations and and when you've got that
00:10:53
larger extended group usually you've
00:10:56
been through something along that yeah
00:10:58
and then my stepbrother
00:11:02
um oh he's incarcerated in the states or
00:11:05
something yeah yeah that's right right
00:11:06
so that's that's been um that's been
00:11:08
pretty challenging but again it's it's
00:11:10
been remarkable because when you're in
00:11:12
the public eye I think a lot of people
00:11:15
are interested and they come talk to you
00:11:17
about that stuff and it's amazing what
00:11:18
they share as well about their family
00:11:23
um and I think my experiences
00:11:25
All Families have some stuff going on oh
00:11:28
100 yeah 100 and that sort of um
00:11:31
vulnerability I guess is key and when
00:11:33
people know this about you and they know
00:11:34
you're not perfect they feel like they
00:11:36
can yeah share some of their intimate
00:11:37
stuff with you so so what happened with
00:11:39
your your step right hey he got in
00:11:41
trouble in the states and then he
00:11:42
stabbed someone in jail no it's all sort
00:11:45
of
00:11:46
um reluctant to go too much into it it's
00:11:48
still cool stuff happening but they
00:11:51
don't they don't [ __ ] around with their
00:11:52
sentencing over there though do they
00:11:53
yeah but um
00:11:55
yeah it's a very difficult situation
00:11:57
yeah it's always um if something really
00:12:01
tough occurs as well
00:12:03
the the scale of impact
00:12:05
so obviously you've got a person who
00:12:07
died their family you've got my mum and
00:12:12
Neil you just it's just such a ripple
00:12:14
effect of people that are impacted and
00:12:17
so and that sort of all occurred within
00:12:22
the same sort of year that I was
00:12:24
diagnosed
00:12:25
um so yeah with breast cancer yeah I do
00:12:28
say
00:12:30
my mom is
00:12:32
kind of been incredible because
00:12:35
I look at the things that she's sort of
00:12:37
dealt with in life and I think
00:12:39
um
00:12:40
and and often these things do happen in
00:12:42
short order don't they they sort of
00:12:44
yeah they say like bad things happen in
00:12:46
three or whatever yeah when it rains it
00:12:48
pours yeah of course but I feel again
00:12:50
you just got to be able to accept that
00:12:52
as my grandmother say to me everything
00:12:55
passes yeah it's a good one there's two
00:12:57
Shall Pass yeah never and never never
00:12:59
stays raining forever yeah
00:13:08
yeah she had been through oh she had
00:13:12
seen my grandfather pass away her son
00:13:14
had died she'd been through a lot and
00:13:16
she she sort of was pretty amazing in
00:13:19
the latter years of her life she lived
00:13:20
in 96 to just keep stressing
00:13:24
um that everything
00:13:25
does pass
00:13:27
sure the older Generations it reminds me
00:13:29
of my grandparents like they they just
00:13:31
they seem more resilient hey we're tough
00:13:33
than what we are I don't know I don't
00:13:34
know what that is so maybe it's going
00:13:36
through Wars or depressions or things
00:13:38
like that or I don't know they just
00:13:40
mental illness just wasn't sort of a
00:13:41
thing or wasn't allowed to be a thing I
00:13:43
think there are different pressures for
00:13:45
a lot of people now and that obviously
00:13:48
everything online the amount of
00:13:51
um information coming at people and if
00:13:54
you're in a slightly negative headspace
00:13:56
and then you choose to read a whole lot
00:13:58
of negative things that can be pretty
00:14:01
overwhelming yeah
00:14:02
um I remember asking sir Peter glockman
00:14:04
actually Chief science advisor when I
00:14:06
was briefly minister of Education what
00:14:08
did he think
00:14:10
was the trend given that we'd seen this
00:14:12
sort of increasing mental health and he
00:14:14
said
00:14:15
likely the online environment so I think
00:14:17
that that is that is challenging and I
00:14:20
do think um I mean while obviously
00:14:22
grandmother went through
00:14:24
um a Great Depression one time she said
00:14:26
to me actually she said Nikki it's
00:14:29
wonderful you have lots of choices but I
00:14:32
actually think that's what makes it also
00:14:33
harder for you right you've got lots of
00:14:35
choices
00:14:36
it was quite an interesting thing to say
00:14:38
in one level she would have loved to
00:14:40
have had the choices that I I'd had but
00:14:42
at another level
00:14:44
she understood the complexity kind of
00:14:47
almost life was more complex now yeah
00:14:49
I'd agree with that I never really
00:14:50
thought of it that way I completely my
00:14:51
mum's family that she's one of like 14
00:14:53
kids from Levin and they they or her and
00:14:56
all their siblings pretty much married
00:14:58
someone else from Levin from the same
00:15:00
church group yeah now it's like the you
00:15:02
know the world's like a global Community
00:15:03
isn't it there's so many options and
00:15:05
choices okay so so your parents broke up
00:15:07
you have a rebellious face you get your
00:15:09
rebellious phase out of the way really
00:15:10
though then you find running you come
00:15:12
good then you study in otago did you
00:15:14
have another rebellious face in otago
00:15:17
um burning sofas smoking more weed
00:15:19
typical and I actually I did weird with
00:15:23
like 14 and then I never
00:15:26
did oh come on
00:15:28
come on yes no I swear I I was very
00:15:31
um I had seen the sex boyfriend and I
00:15:34
was like younger had gone pretty yeah
00:15:39
it was not good for him
00:15:40
um and so I have never been on drugs
00:15:42
since right um and so basically but I
00:15:44
was in otago all the party stuff yep
00:15:48
um I was actually I was at a university
00:15:50
hostel we had a and a pretty incredible
00:15:52
time and a good group of friends then
00:15:54
went uh up to Wellington to finish
00:15:57
um I was gonna finish the law and
00:15:59
genetics degree and got offered a
00:16:00
full-time job for Bill English so how
00:16:03
old were you then like early 20s yeah
00:16:04
what was he there was it when he was the
00:16:06
leader it was when he was a leader and
00:16:08
we went to the selection result
00:16:11
um who won was that Helen uh
00:16:13
yeah it was like we went to like 22
00:16:14
percent
00:16:15
okay 20 in the polls but um I worked
00:16:18
with him uh and then my ex-boyfriend and
00:16:21
I we wanted to go over to London wanted
00:16:24
to do the OE and so I finished the
00:16:27
genetics degree but didn't finish the
00:16:28
law degree at that point hit it over
00:16:30
worked in the public service over there
00:16:32
and different contract roles and then
00:16:34
also Halifax Bank of Scotland
00:16:37
um traveled
00:16:39
next minute
00:16:41
27 in a pub with a mate not doing
00:16:45
cocaine not doing anything you and John
00:16:47
Key must be the only kiwis that went to
00:16:48
London
00:16:51
that's good taking back a pint
00:16:55
um and one of my mates said to me
00:16:58
you know this is ridiculous all you have
00:17:00
to talk about is policy New Zealand
00:17:01
politics like why we were just a nerd
00:17:04
like a massive political news yeah
00:17:06
really why because you did what did you
00:17:08
do you did like a science science degree
00:17:10
science degree in genetics yeah and I
00:17:13
was doing a law degree and did you have
00:17:16
political like aspirations then or not
00:17:18
that you sort of I think when
00:17:26
I'd give it a crack a question in my
00:17:28
mind was
00:17:29
I kind of imagined I did in my 40s like
00:17:32
about now
00:17:34
um but one of my mates turned to me and
00:17:36
said why wouldn't you go back and stand
00:17:38
now I mean I was 27 I was getting more
00:17:40
than like I was earning phenomenal money
00:17:43
in ITC asset management consulting
00:17:46
um and I had to really ask myself the
00:17:49
answer to that and I really the only
00:17:51
answer that I could come up with would
00:17:53
be fair
00:17:54
it was difficult because I left my
00:17:56
ex-boyfriend I got on a plane came back
00:17:59
here
00:18:00
it's like
00:18:01
December
00:18:03
um before
00:18:04
um 2000 2008 election and I asked to see
00:18:08
Murray McCully on one side of the road
00:18:10
Bill English on the other side and I
00:18:12
said look because they knew it you know
00:18:14
I'd been a staffer and I'd been away
00:18:15
over overseas for a period of time I
00:18:17
said look if you don't think I'm up to
00:18:19
being a member of parliament look I'll
00:18:21
get back on the plane and you know go
00:18:22
back both of them said we think you
00:18:24
should give it a crack it's going to be
00:18:26
really tough because you've
00:18:28
not being back you are so young you have
00:18:34
not been around on the electorate um in
00:18:36
terms of Auckland Central
00:18:38
and yeah and then I sort of bit Jackie
00:18:41
Blue and others also you went uh you
00:18:43
didn't slide in on the list no no no I
00:18:46
had to fight um oh [ __ ] so basically
00:18:52
membership then it wouldn't have gone to
00:18:54
it would have gone to the board and I
00:18:55
would never have made it so I walked the
00:18:57
streets to up the membership to get a
00:19:00
contested selection and yeah I think I I
00:19:02
mean it was a pretty big night but won
00:19:04
the selection and then knocked on ten
00:19:07
thousand doors to win yeah yeah I read
00:19:10
that online how do you know it was ten
00:19:12
thousand that's just good it's got to be
00:19:14
again no no no I I mean I was I was
00:19:17
counting right
00:19:18
um I was and I was we were mapping up
00:19:21
the streets and everything like we were
00:19:22
pretty um disciplined about it yeah very
00:19:25
very much
00:19:26
um very disciplined I mean you know it
00:19:28
was it so it was an estimate but it's
00:19:32
more likely to have been 11 000 if that
00:19:34
makes sense because we were mapping
00:19:35
everything out
00:19:37
um does it does that help I guess it
00:19:39
does say like if someone meets you
00:19:40
absolutely in New Zealand I mean that
00:19:43
the the difference in a marginal seat if
00:19:46
you meet because if you're knocking on
00:19:48
ten thousand dollars you're not gonna
00:19:49
meet ten thousand people the reality is
00:19:50
probably one and every three will be
00:19:52
home right but if you meet I'm gonna it
00:19:56
comes down to a thousand votes if you've
00:19:59
made a couple of hundred extra people
00:20:00
and they've got three friends like it's
00:20:03
it absolutely makes a difference yeah
00:20:06
except from where I'm sitting now over
00:20:07
the road at Victoria Park there's a
00:20:09
whole lot of um like signs for people
00:20:11
that want to be the mayor of Auckland
00:20:12
yeah and I I don't know they they all
00:20:15
look nice in the photos but if you meet
00:20:16
one of them and they seem like a like a
00:20:18
good a good person you'd probably vote I
00:20:20
guess regardless of policy necessarily I
00:20:22
think well I think um
00:20:24
when you're an unknown and certainly
00:20:27
that can make a difference in terms of
00:20:30
particularly if people want change and
00:20:31
it was kind of a change election yeah
00:20:32
but also I mean when was that was that
00:20:34
after uh Helen Clark had three terms
00:20:36
that was in 2008 so yeah because I came
00:20:40
in in 99 right did you see some um
00:20:43
interesting sites with the door knocking
00:20:45
Journey yeah
00:20:48
yeah you get the dressing gowns I mean I
00:20:50
didn't get anyone naked in there oh is
00:20:51
that right 11
00:20:53
000 people not in that election I've had
00:21:00
interesting experiences but but the
00:21:03
thing about it is I consider as well
00:21:05
that was a massive training exercise
00:21:07
because
00:21:08
with people who want to stand and my
00:21:10
main message to them is I don't think it
00:21:12
matters what what Walk of Life you come
00:21:15
from right people say to me oh should I
00:21:17
do this degree should I do that I'm like
00:21:19
look in our cabinets
00:21:22
um and when one of keys cabinets he had
00:21:24
solo mum woodwork teacher I was
00:21:26
considered a career politician 50
00:21:28
million investment banker but the best
00:21:30
cabinets in my view have people from
00:21:33
lots of different walks of life but the
00:21:35
key thing in my view the people that
00:21:37
kind of rise to that cabinet level
00:21:40
they have a strong sense of who they are
00:21:43
and what they want to deliver and some
00:21:45
people get that really young and what I
00:21:47
do believe that my door knocking if I
00:21:50
didn't know what my position was on
00:21:52
abortion or drag reform or other health
00:21:55
and education I certainly over those
00:21:58
months
00:21:59
had to work it out bloody quickly yeah
00:22:01
it's pretty good I didn't think of it
00:22:02
like that it was probably a good
00:22:03
training exercise thinking on the spot
00:22:04
well but also people give you their view
00:22:07
if you're a good politician people give
00:22:09
you their views and I say to people I
00:22:12
would say to people you know what what
00:22:14
do you mean can you elaborate on that
00:22:15
what do you mean if you're a good
00:22:16
politician people well if you're a good
00:22:17
politician you listen to people right
00:22:19
and you're a magpie because the best
00:22:22
ideas for public policy they don't come
00:22:25
from people sitting in the Beehive they
00:22:28
come from the piss on the doorstep that
00:22:30
says hey look I am a an es specialist
00:22:34
and I happen to think that cochlear
00:22:36
airplane I mean it's just an example
00:22:37
Cochlear implants need to be better
00:22:40
funded or you know that's where the best
00:22:43
ideas come from it comes from from
00:22:46
people who are working in particular
00:22:47
sectors
00:22:49
yeah you get the feeling
00:22:51
um I don't know from someone that's
00:22:52
never been in Parliament but just
00:22:54
follows it not closely I guess it just
00:22:55
doesn't seem like there's a lot of
00:22:56
sociopaths or narcissists in there that
00:22:59
wouldn't necessarily be good at
00:23:00
listening yeah yeah I think
00:23:02
I do have faith a bit in the system
00:23:05
though that those people get shown up
00:23:08
right right
00:23:10
um in part like I often tell the taxi
00:23:12
driver test often I've gotten a taxi and
00:23:15
people said to me oh can I just tell you
00:23:17
about the CMP that I just dropped off or
00:23:19
whatever then you you realize they're
00:23:21
probably saying the same thing about you
00:23:24
yeah so it is like there's just small
00:23:28
Degrees of Separation so generally I
00:23:31
think people get found out in a small
00:23:32
country but I I do think there's a need
00:23:35
to ensure that we continue to do more to
00:23:38
more and more to encourage people from
00:23:40
different walks of life to stand and the
00:23:42
Nets have had issues with diversity and
00:23:44
you know it's been pretty widely
00:23:45
canvassed but I think it's not just
00:23:48
about diversity it's it's different
00:23:50
walks of life that's have annoyed me a
00:23:52
little bit on on your behalf actually
00:23:53
this was towards the end of your time in
00:23:55
politics so there was um Simon Bridges
00:23:57
and Paula Bennett leader and Deputy
00:23:58
leader both both Maori they didn't do
00:24:00
well so they were replaced and it was um
00:24:04
you were asked about Maori and you said
00:24:06
Paul Goldsmith Somali which was just
00:24:08
like a slip of the tongue or an accident
00:24:09
would it faux power whatever you want to
00:24:11
call it yeah but she actually get reamed
00:24:13
for that stuff don't you yeah it was an
00:24:15
interesting time I mean again I've been
00:24:17
really careful about what I've said
00:24:19
publicly because I haven't felt it's
00:24:21
ever
00:24:22
useful to
00:24:25
um it would be I'd feel good for about
00:24:26
24 hours but it's selfish
00:24:30
if I ever kind of went into that detail
00:24:33
but yeah that's a podcast no one no one
00:24:36
listens
00:24:37
the media cam blows stuff up
00:24:41
but my experience still of the public is
00:24:44
they're pretty fair and I've actually
00:24:46
had a really good experience so that was
00:24:50
um you know I was obviously advised by
00:24:52
someone in hindsight where I sh
00:24:55
there's there's more to that but but
00:24:57
whatever but but in hindsight we had
00:25:00
issues with diversity media we're going
00:25:02
to highlight that and it just so
00:25:04
happened I gave them a moment to do that
00:25:06
but the broader issue was actually in my
00:25:09
view the Nets have to do do better in
00:25:11
terms of breaking down barriers for
00:25:13
selection and Crystal flux has actually
00:25:14
said that recently
00:25:16
um so you kind of have to sometimes
00:25:18
you've also got to take one for the team
00:25:19
and there's various moments in politics
00:25:22
where I have done that and um no one
00:25:26
ever really knows what goes on behind
00:25:27
the scenes you just gotta suck it up in
00:25:29
a number of times as well you've gotta
00:25:31
if you're in the leadership position
00:25:32
you've got to own it like a lot of
00:25:35
people run and ultimately I got that
00:25:38
wrong just gotta you gotta kind of own
00:25:40
it um kind of must be it must be a rough
00:25:43
couple of days though
00:25:54
yes that was like um like anxiety
00:25:57
attacks
00:25:58
he's used those
00:26:00
yeah
00:26:01
were you aware of it at the time the
00:26:03
extent of it or did he manage to sort of
00:26:05
have a pretty good mask on yeah I mean I
00:26:07
think it's just um and I think you know
00:26:10
obviously spoken publicly about it uh
00:26:14
was made aware
00:26:16
um effectively when he was resigning I
00:26:18
mean I knew it was under stress but I
00:26:20
don't know the extent yeah yeah but also
00:26:23
because it was such an unusual time we
00:26:25
were both on the road
00:26:27
um so we didn't actually see each other
00:26:29
that much because it was so close to an
00:26:31
election
00:26:32
um what I would say is I think
00:26:35
um
00:26:36
you know there's been a range of reviews
00:26:37
around the Parliamentary Precinct but
00:26:39
that need to
00:26:41
um ensure that there's just a better
00:26:43
environment in there I you know I think
00:26:46
you can work long hours but I should say
00:26:49
to people for 12 years I was working 100
00:26:51
hour weeks we really so what an average
00:26:54
day look like so this is this in the
00:26:56
early years when you're a backbencher or
00:26:57
is this when you're in a cabinet pretty
00:26:58
much right through because it's an
00:27:00
imaginal set I mean my inbox the nature
00:27:02
of all consensual as well it was it it
00:27:04
was pretty
00:27:05
um just Relentless there was always
00:27:08
people in Central City and then you've
00:27:10
got Waikiki barrier the Western Bays
00:27:13
um and then obviously as a cabinet
00:27:15
minister and then you know moving
00:27:17
through the ranks and I was always
00:27:19
focused on policy so it was an absolute
00:27:23
privilege but it was pretty full-on I
00:27:26
mean bowing out has been it's sort of
00:27:29
like a completely different life because
00:27:32
initially I was like oh hang on I should
00:27:34
be dealing with
00:27:36
stuff yeah yeah some sort of steady
00:27:40
stream of people always wanting
00:27:42
information and or you do something
00:27:44
so so what how did how did a 100 hour
00:27:47
week look like like run us through like
00:27:49
a like a day in the life
00:27:51
sevenish respond to emails I mean I
00:27:55
might get a walk-in if it was caucus
00:27:57
you'd be there for procedures which is
00:28:00
like the pre-prep prior to kind of
00:28:03
questions
00:28:04
um then we will go through like a
00:28:06
question
00:28:07
um session we bid for a question if you
00:28:10
had a question you'll be preparing that
00:28:11
until the questions were lodged if you
00:28:13
didn't you might have various meetings
00:28:15
with stakeholders
00:28:17
um you'd have question time at like uh
00:28:20
two o'clock but you'd be prepping if
00:28:22
you're in opposition um or as a minister
00:28:24
it's obviously very different if you're
00:28:26
a minister you've got meetings all day
00:28:27
with officials
00:28:29
um you would be maybe then at a function
00:28:32
or you would be talking to various
00:28:35
stakeholders that wanted to Lobby you on
00:28:36
a particular issue then you'd be doing
00:28:38
policy work often in the background
00:28:41
either in opposition or as a minister I
00:28:44
mean there'll be times when I wouldn't
00:28:45
have left the Beehive until yeah
00:28:47
midnight really yeah absolutely because
00:28:49
because the amount of paper work so like
00:28:52
when I was a minister of Education the
00:28:56
kid have an inbox of papers to be
00:28:58
reading policy papers cabinet papers oh
00:29:01
my God why would anyone want to do it
00:29:03
well because it is incredibly rewarding
00:29:07
yeah last year I think I was walking
00:29:09
along the street and this guy's like
00:29:11
Nikki I was associate minister of
00:29:13
immigration for a period And I had
00:29:15
helped let him come into New Zealand and
00:29:18
so you know he was pretty emotional you
00:29:21
get to change the trajectory of a
00:29:24
person's life or you get to I mean like
00:29:26
I I bought I bought an um connecting all
00:29:29
schools to old fast broadband and also
00:29:32
like um did a lot in school
00:29:33
infrastructure you know you'll change a
00:29:35
community with some of the things that
00:29:37
you do so it can be
00:29:40
a lot of Highs but then there's also
00:29:43
lows because there were a number of
00:29:45
situations where you couldn't like I
00:29:47
couldn't help people the answers no yeah
00:29:49
yeah and so for their life they
00:29:52
may have a pretty negative view of you
00:29:53
but yeah so it can be a lot of highs and
00:29:56
lows basically when you entered as a
00:29:58
fresh face 27 year old I'm guessing you
00:30:00
had aspirations to be pm yeah I feel
00:30:03
like most people that get into politics
00:30:05
probably in spite of that and then I
00:30:06
think it was actually a strong key who
00:30:08
said most people do I don't think I ever
00:30:11
I thought I wanted to be top five
00:30:14
um in part like I managed I I imagine
00:30:17
being minister of Social Development or
00:30:19
minister of Education in part like my
00:30:21
step rather have been challenging and I
00:30:23
just wanted to
00:30:25
um I was very focused on social good and
00:30:27
social policy but yeah I did I didn't
00:30:30
think it was impossible people but more
00:30:33
I sort of focused on that top five and I
00:30:36
certainly wasn't I wasn't going in there
00:30:38
to be a backbencher like
00:30:40
um I was you know wanting to
00:30:43
be able to make the greatest amount of
00:30:44
change that I could yeah in your early
00:30:46
years some people called you high
00:30:47
maintenance or obsessive yeah
00:30:50
just driven well on the high maintenance
00:30:54
thing I would say I have I don't think
00:30:57
I've missed a woman in politics at
00:30:59
senior levels who hasn't been called
00:31:01
high maintenance right and I do think
00:31:03
that's sexist some of it is misogynism
00:31:07
um but there are times absolutely I've
00:31:10
been high maintenance and that's in part
00:31:13
like I do get and you always sort of
00:31:15
learn in life what your weaknesses are
00:31:17
can also be a strength so it's like my
00:31:20
superpower
00:31:21
can be when I get focused on something
00:31:25
deliver it
00:31:27
and um and inevitably that can mean
00:31:31
that's particularly frustrating for some
00:31:34
people so look I'm not perfect I
00:31:36
certainly think I I don't reckon I
00:31:38
manage stress that well at times like I
00:31:40
so I definitely think I've got better
00:31:43
the last couple of years or
00:31:46
um even while you were still a
00:31:47
politician well I was still a politician
00:31:49
yeah yeah I think you know when and yang
00:31:51
I didn't have the experience of managing
00:31:54
large organizations I became
00:31:58
very young in cabinet as well and so I
00:32:01
certainly think I got better
00:32:03
but this still is a lot of misogynism so
00:32:06
you know I don't as I say I often joke
00:32:09
about it with um with senior women in
00:32:11
business Etc we're you know the most
00:32:14
sort of classic way to shut
00:32:16
a powerful woman down is to say the
00:32:18
astrophy a ball breaker
00:32:22
basically yeah that's true that's a
00:32:24
cop-out isn't it yeah yeah oh that's
00:32:26
interesting and it is I mean look the
00:32:28
naturopathics and this is where
00:32:30
one of the good things about it is yeah
00:32:33
it's a goldfish bowl and it needs to be
00:32:36
that way and that means that your
00:32:39
strengths and your weaknesses are blown
00:32:41
up and Amplified and
00:32:43
um focused obsessive whatever yeah
00:32:46
sometimes that can be but the advantage
00:32:48
of that I think probably post is you've
00:32:51
kind of been through the SAS of um kind
00:32:55
of personal
00:32:56
Limbs and and if you can learn from that
00:33:01
um and certainly that you know no one
00:33:02
gives you an extra interview well the
00:33:04
media give you an excellent interview
00:33:05
but no one sits down like other jobs and
00:33:08
gives you a decent exit interview and
00:33:10
I've had to do that myself with friends
00:33:11
and other people who've been in there
00:33:13
and I've said be brutal with me what was
00:33:15
good what was bad I'm really proud I've
00:33:17
kind of done that process
00:33:18
so that you can kind of learn the next
00:33:21
phase and and your experience was was
00:33:23
there like a bullying culture there at
00:33:25
all or is it just one of those I mean
00:33:27
the Debbie Francis review as an
00:33:29
independent review that has come out in
00:33:31
the last few years and I do think I do
00:33:34
think
00:33:35
I mean it highlights a range of bad
00:33:37
behaviors and I think
00:33:40
it's got to change when whenever you get
00:33:43
large amounts of power as you do
00:33:45
obviously in the House of
00:33:46
Representatives and you get egos
00:33:51
um and you get competition right it's a
00:33:54
dangerous combination and power can do
00:33:56
some crazy stuff to some people I asked
00:33:59
one of my classmates from school I said
00:34:00
you and I got really up myself for parts
00:34:02
of it and she said she recognized
00:34:05
where he's pretty grounded for most of
00:34:07
it but you know it might have been one
00:34:08
or two in part because I was always door
00:34:11
knocking so in a marginal seat probably
00:34:14
kept more in check but maybe others will
00:34:17
have a different view yeah I certainly
00:34:19
think
00:34:20
um we want to make sure though that we
00:34:22
have people from different walks of life
00:34:24
yeah because I think
00:34:26
some of also that life experience so and
00:34:29
then there was the um uh 2011 election
00:34:32
where you went head-to-head with uh
00:34:34
Jacinda ardoon and you you've been here
00:34:35
about like 700 votes or something yeah
00:34:37
yeah do you do you look at her career
00:34:39
and think [ __ ] that's uh that that
00:34:41
should have been me or that could have
00:34:43
been me no I don't know I actually um
00:34:46
there's obviously parallels between
00:34:48
us I mean we we sort of fought each
00:34:50
other a couple of times
00:34:52
um and the
00:34:55
thing is in part because we're you know
00:34:59
um young and female yeah age all that
00:35:01
stuff I mean I genuinely while I might
00:35:04
not agree with the policy recipes of
00:35:06
flavor I think she won a phenomenal
00:35:10
result she's
00:35:12
um on the world stage done incredibly
00:35:15
well and yeah I kind of wish you well
00:35:17
it's sort of a bit of the running
00:35:19
analogy I sort of run my own race and
00:35:21
try in life and actually I've read all
00:35:24
the every possible self-help bookkeeping
00:35:26
but possibly reads how much Bruno Brown
00:35:29
have you got in your library
00:35:31
oh God but I do think I'm pretty good at
00:35:35
yeah acknowledging where someone's done
00:35:39
well and they've you know they've run
00:35:40
their race well comparison's the theft
00:35:42
of Joy I like that saying I think that's
00:35:44
very true you just can't who who are you
00:35:46
still are you are you friends with him
00:35:48
like how does how does it work and like
00:35:51
are you are you sworn enemies with
00:35:53
anyone from other parties or is it
00:35:57
right
00:35:58
never tribal in the sense of well that's
00:36:01
maybe a new school mentality eh yeah
00:36:12
um was politics I've been involved in
00:36:13
the National Party since I was like a
00:36:15
young Nash which was like
00:36:18
um 19.
00:36:20
um so half my life and so in order for
00:36:23
me to be confident
00:36:25
what kind of you work out what you knew
00:36:27
well what your identity is I needed to
00:36:30
just cut a bit and I think that's really
00:36:33
healthy
00:36:34
um yeah after that long being involved
00:36:37
um it must have felt like a weird
00:36:38
breakup in a way in a sense
00:36:40
I was probably on the Spectrum in terms
00:36:43
of I just got involved so young
00:36:46
so
00:36:48
um
00:36:49
I needed to really disconnect and
00:36:53
actually for
00:36:55
because I'm younger bowinger as well the
00:36:57
chances of having you know focus on
00:37:00
education technology and other crack at
00:37:02
another
00:37:03
another life another career yeah
00:37:06
yeah the the cancer diagnosis in 20 did
00:37:09
they give you some sort of um like
00:37:10
perspective like [ __ ] what am I doing
00:37:12
with my life absolutely yeah look I've
00:37:14
been really public about the fact my
00:37:15
health is not perfect it's still still
00:37:18
now perfect yeah but I was really so I
00:37:20
don't I never talk about kind of the
00:37:22
detail but it would it's never been
00:37:24
perfect even from 2016 so
00:37:28
so let's go back there so September
00:37:30
2016. do you think some of it was
00:37:33
brought on by I mean there's no way of
00:37:34
knowing I guess but in your heart do you
00:37:36
think some of us brought on by doing 100
00:37:37
hour weeks
00:37:39
streets
00:37:43
they can work out they can diagnose and
00:37:46
do a biopsy and work out what they think
00:37:47
is the best combination to treat you but
00:37:50
they often don't know what the hell
00:37:52
because it was a streus was it yeah you
00:37:56
know but I do think ah if I was gonna
00:37:59
have a guess but who knows um it was
00:38:03
more likely to do with that combination
00:38:06
of stress and
00:38:08
um but who knows I mean it wouldn't be
00:38:10
yeah it wouldn't have been helpful to
00:38:12
have that amount of stress
00:38:13
um and we know the connection between
00:38:15
streus and stuff now so so did you know
00:38:18
something did you feel unwell or were
00:38:20
you good at did you do regular
00:38:21
self-examinations basically
00:38:25
really a miracle that I found I I just
00:38:27
never have checked myself ever you go
00:38:30
for a yearly mammogram
00:38:32
right so mammograms
00:38:35
um I was too young
00:38:37
so I randomly I just sort of I had felt
00:38:41
feeling a bit unwell but I sort of went
00:38:44
like that like almost kind of just like
00:38:46
moved the bar or whatever and went what
00:38:49
the hell is that like what sort of size
00:38:51
are we talking just like
00:38:52
it right you know it's weird
00:38:59
terrible sense in my
00:39:02
um
00:39:03
I said I remember crying and then the
00:39:06
next morning I rang my uncle who's it um
00:39:09
who was like um
00:39:11
GP and I see it oh Thunder lump and he
00:39:15
said you need to get into a GP today and
00:39:19
I went into the GP and she said
00:39:22
oh look and you just you need the tone
00:39:26
of your voice she was like you if you
00:39:28
cried when you found it you must have
00:39:30
like no one deep down I think it
00:39:34
is
00:39:35
or anything about breast cancer really
00:39:37
and then she said look is actually
00:39:40
several lumps but then
00:39:43
she said we need to get an ultrasound
00:39:46
and at that point I was thinking oh [ __ ]
00:39:48
this isn't very good but they rang I
00:39:51
can't remember they rang a provider this
00:39:53
is on a Saturday
00:39:55
and they said oh you're pretty young too
00:39:57
you know you you're too young we'll wait
00:40:00
till sort of early next week it's funny
00:40:01
how they do that right then also I had a
00:40:04
big paper cabinet like a big civil
00:40:06
defense emergency paper so I was like oh
00:40:08
I'll just come back on the Tuesday and
00:40:11
get the stuff looked at
00:40:13
how can you focus on doing it I know
00:40:15
look it was did you look back now and go
00:40:17
what an earlier crazy time it was
00:40:19
actually a yeah it was quite a very
00:40:21
important civil defense paper and but
00:40:23
was that and was that a like a nice
00:40:25
distraction maybe a song to focus your
00:40:27
mind it was kind of like I was I I
00:40:31
needed I I felt I needed to be there but
00:40:33
probably it would have been a day and
00:40:34
it's right and cut so anyway
00:40:36
but I was not in a good head space and I
00:40:39
did what I need to do I came back and um
00:40:42
I rang John's Deputy Chief of Staff wore
00:40:46
over and I said to her hey look just to
00:40:48
let you know I'm just having some tests
00:40:49
probably be nothing you know
00:40:52
but then
00:40:53
um I took the ultrasound and
00:40:57
they sent me into another room
00:40:59
and suddenly they were doing more stuff
00:41:03
and um
00:41:05
they just took a biopsy
00:41:07
and then basically
00:41:10
I
00:41:12
went to see uh
00:41:14
breast person and yeah that's you've got
00:41:18
breast cancer and that's where I try to
00:41:19
resign
00:41:21
um so how do they how do they tell you
00:41:22
that like to give a support person in
00:41:24
the room with you yeah
00:41:28
at that time when when you get when you
00:41:31
hear that news do you um do you break
00:41:33
down and cry then or are you just numb
00:41:34
or sort of like for me it was like I was
00:41:37
hovering over my own body going this
00:41:39
isn't this isn't [ __ ] happening like
00:41:41
this is not [ __ ] happening and this
00:41:43
is not me and this is not
00:41:45
you know and then uh so sort of but then
00:41:49
I was
00:41:50
um incredibly upset and so I tried to I
00:41:54
rang Paula and um she said we'll have to
00:41:57
get the PM by himself because it'll
00:41:59
knock him over a bit so we'll we'll get
00:42:02
him when he's out of some of the stuff
00:42:04
anyway you rang a bit earlier and I said
00:42:06
look I offered my resignation
00:42:09
um from cabinet we have my resignation
00:42:11
from cabinet and he just said you're not
00:42:14
[ __ ] going anywhere oh that's that
00:42:16
must have made you feel so good why did
00:42:18
you want to resign did you just think I
00:42:19
need to focus on
00:42:20
that sort of thing to do right because
00:42:21
you didn't know how long it would take
00:42:23
or well I just couldn't imagine how
00:42:25
because I didn't I just couldn't imagine
00:42:28
that he would end up he took the
00:42:30
portfolios but kept me as a minister and
00:42:32
I just you just think it's the right
00:42:34
thing to do people need running the
00:42:35
country it's such an important job but I
00:42:39
I think it it people don't realize now
00:42:42
that sort of seemed more common practice
00:42:44
but at the time I think he was yeah it
00:42:47
was really it was sort of groundbreaking
00:42:49
at the time do you think
00:42:51
um but obviously that practices I think
00:42:55
continued with other ministers now but
00:42:58
yeah I mean it's sort of it's like my
00:43:00
world just kind of broke smashed and
00:43:03
that certainly in terms of and as I say
00:43:06
because the health hasn't been perfect I
00:43:08
haven't gone to that but
00:43:10
it has been the most horrific thing in
00:43:13
my life but it has been
00:43:15
the most beautiful how's it the most
00:43:18
beautiful well because I'm closer to a
00:43:20
range of people that I wouldn't have
00:43:22
been close to because basically what
00:43:24
happens when you get I think
00:43:26
life-threatening
00:43:28
illnesses often but I think you might
00:43:30
die the word cancer right but they well
00:43:34
they tell you that they love you and
00:43:36
they um and you often feel I've talked
00:43:38
about this with a lot of women have been
00:43:40
been diagnosed with people who've had
00:43:41
cancer or have cancer
00:43:44
you know why does it take the sort of
00:43:46
worst period to feel the most love and
00:43:51
my stepfather actually a bit of a
00:43:53
medical event lately and we're in a more
00:43:55
in Auckland hospital again I was sort of
00:43:58
sitting there watching and you see is
00:44:01
that you see so much trauma and then you
00:44:03
also see incredible love like it's it's
00:44:06
so crazy that that's what takes in life
00:44:08
sometimes
00:44:09
yeah that's cool I suppose it's like a
00:44:11
almost a eulogy in a way but you get to
00:44:13
you get to experience it and you make it
00:44:16
through the other end yeah um so what's
00:44:18
um so so what happens so you get
00:44:19
diagnosed and you get told you got
00:44:21
cancer then what's the what's the
00:44:23
treatment like
00:44:24
um
00:44:27
including
00:44:30
oh that's um yeah the same thing
00:44:32
Angelina Jolie had yeah
00:44:34
I didn't have the bracket um the what
00:44:36
the breaker mutation which is a mutation
00:44:38
but I had yeah both off which is that is
00:44:41
that a big call or not not at all um
00:44:44
there's the right thing to do yeah but
00:44:46
in terms of
00:44:47
a variety of reasons I was in surgery
00:44:50
for a long time that coming out coming
00:44:52
out of that like it's quite physically
00:44:54
and emotionally
00:44:56
yeah it's I remember feeling like I had
00:44:59
been I woke up in the recovery room and
00:45:02
I felt like I had been run over
00:45:05
like that's how tired like if if you've
00:45:08
had major surgery
00:45:10
well from from like how do you mean I've
00:45:12
like coming out from from the drugs or
00:45:14
just from the the surgical
00:45:17
yeah just this feeling when your body
00:45:20
when you go through such physical trauma
00:45:23
like that that your body is just
00:45:25
completely spent
00:45:27
yeah there's no I can't imagine I hope I
00:45:29
never feel
00:45:31
that way but I've never felt like my
00:45:34
body was such a weight
00:45:36
but also just before you kind of go in
00:45:39
thinking like am I gonna wake up like
00:45:42
that's the did you really think that
00:45:45
well
00:45:47
even though that may have been
00:45:48
irrational I still went through that
00:45:50
process and I think there's a lot of
00:45:52
people
00:45:53
it's pretty natural thing like if you're
00:45:56
going under for any major to kind of
00:45:59
just go
00:46:01
Um you're only you're only younger you
00:46:03
think that's I mean if it's your 90 year
00:46:04
old Granddad maybe but you were in your
00:46:07
30s
00:46:13
also my spin a bit more
00:46:15
intense
00:46:16
[Music]
00:46:17
and so I feel very I choose to be very
00:46:20
grateful other sometimes people can get
00:46:23
pretty
00:46:24
angry which is Perfectly Natural for
00:46:27
periods like why me why did this have to
00:46:29
happen and
00:46:31
yeah I kind of more think well why not
00:46:35
me
00:46:36
so it's sort of I don't know it's it's
00:46:39
but and then you know I guess that thing
00:46:40
about resilience like there's the
00:46:42
reality is I it's the wrong thing to say
00:46:45
that sometimes I think I I do feel a bit
00:46:47
Bulletproof
00:46:49
but when you go through a lot of trauma
00:46:52
like that there is an amount for which
00:46:55
every day is a good day if you can
00:46:57
remember yeah yeah those
00:47:02
um
00:47:03
yeah I had a um I had a Timber a number
00:47:07
of years ago what wasn't a cancerous one
00:47:08
just in my um abdomen area and it left
00:47:10
me with um uh fertility issues uh unable
00:47:14
to have kids and me and judge had years
00:47:15
and years of of IVF and I suppose
00:47:17
there's like a like a sense of grieving
00:47:19
or a sense of loss with that did you did
00:47:21
you feel that when you lost your breasts
00:47:24
um
00:47:25
yeah yeah I mean I um
00:47:30
yeah it
00:47:32
I assume well
00:47:36
um
00:47:37
I also had my ovaries out
00:47:39
um so
00:47:40
um
00:47:42
I said well there's a lot of
00:47:44
sort of feelings right up with all of
00:47:46
that yeah was it was that a
00:47:47
precautionary thing or uh
00:47:50
uh again like you don't want to get
00:47:52
there yeah go it won't go into all that
00:47:55
but but basically
00:47:57
there was
00:47:59
a lot of aspects to the Lost are you are
00:48:02
you at peace with it now I don't think
00:48:03
I'm quite at peace with it still yeah I
00:48:06
don't think I've properly processed it
00:48:07
at the time and now I'm I'm slightly
00:48:10
older than you so I'm 49 and I don't
00:48:12
know and you you're probably the same in
00:48:13
some respects like you just see the
00:48:15
second half of your life playing out a
00:48:16
certain way well for me it was kids and
00:48:19
maybe eventually grandkids and then you
00:48:21
sort of have to reframe your whole your
00:48:23
whole life and how it's going to look
00:48:24
for that second chapter yeah and I think
00:48:27
I always wondered whether I would end up
00:48:30
having children in the sense of because
00:48:33
I wanted to save the world I know so it
00:48:35
sounds so kind of imagine how would I be
00:48:38
a good mum like trying to but then when
00:48:40
when stuff is sort of
00:48:43
taken away from you
00:48:45
it's
00:48:46
um a different
00:48:48
uh yeah I mean I of course
00:48:51
this is sadness
00:48:53
um that I think is Pretty Natural but
00:48:56
I don't know I am
00:49:00
I'm choosing to be grateful to be alive
00:49:02
at this point and I just I just don't
00:49:06
think anyone gets off scot-free like I
00:49:08
think oh 100 I just I haven't
00:49:16
I've seen so many things
00:49:19
be able to
00:49:20
experiences and
00:49:23
um I did my dream my dream job
00:49:26
[Music]
00:49:28
um so yeah and so I just I kind of feel
00:49:31
everyone's got some
00:49:34
strange the likes I've got um you know
00:49:36
numerous friends that are like choose to
00:49:38
be childless and that's fine but it's
00:49:40
it's when that decision's taken away
00:49:41
from you that's when it's it's a little
00:49:43
bit a little bit weird but I don't know
00:49:45
there's still a lot to be happy but I go
00:49:47
around here last week doing a podcast
00:49:48
and she hit um a two-year-old for days
00:49:51
afterwards so you know it was just like
00:49:53
the smear Max on my TV my decorative jar
00:49:56
of him and names the Eminem's all over
00:49:58
the floors some some chocolate from his
00:50:00
muesli bar the smeared on my sofa and I
00:50:02
thought it's not bad being childless
00:50:04
[Laughter]
00:50:05
no I mean again it's um yeah I can hear
00:50:10
my grandmother in my ear but um you
00:50:12
can't you kind of make the best of
00:50:15
yeah be grateful for what you've got and
00:50:17
I mean I I do think as well I mean
00:50:19
because I my stepfather really he
00:50:21
brought me up that there's
00:50:24
lots of other opportunities to bring up
00:50:27
children yeah like like nieces and
00:50:29
nephews or like a big buddy sort of
00:50:31
program what do you mean I mean you
00:50:33
could be a step parent okay gotcha yeah
00:50:35
yeah
00:50:36
um yeah are you seeing anyone
00:50:40
you don't go there
00:50:49
no one permanent
00:50:51
um okay oh yeah no that's all right
00:50:53
Michelle all right where did you make
00:50:55
bumble Tinder
00:51:01
well there's so so many more questions
00:51:03
though you're giving me the note for the
00:51:04
question saying
00:51:05
um oh that's good so there's nothing too
00:51:07
serious but you're mostly happy
00:51:10
yeah thing um it's been you know the
00:51:14
change the life change
00:51:16
as I ripped up all of the former life
00:51:19
like
00:51:21
saw my house
00:51:23
job it's been disruptive and I feel as I
00:51:28
say that you know the house is not
00:51:29
perfect that's always in the mix but I
00:51:32
feel happier than in a long time and I
00:51:35
think and much more relaxed
00:51:38
I think I still worry I mean I
00:51:41
and maybe it's a former job I'll never
00:51:43
stop worrying about the community and
00:51:45
like I I just think that's like
00:51:48
ingrained in me and so still just trying
00:51:51
to make sure where I can like obviously
00:51:53
on the 80 Ventures board I can kind of
00:51:56
give back because I love that so I'm
00:51:59
just before I was like I just need a
00:52:02
break and I need to be out and now I'm
00:52:05
more sort of the way I look at it
00:52:07
reintegrating back into the community
00:52:09
yeah so yeah but certainly I mean I
00:52:12
think um I think as well I
00:52:16
weird thing to say but
00:52:18
I think the nature of the former job I
00:52:21
feel acutely when people are in pain and
00:52:23
I think there's a lot of people in pain
00:52:25
at the moment whether it's like yeah
00:52:26
there are health issues or
00:52:29
or pay the bills and so
00:52:31
that this is sort of part of me that
00:52:33
just sort of bubbles away which is Oh no
00:52:36
you're not in Parliament and you've got
00:52:38
a different life but then how do you let
00:52:40
it go yeah yeah but yeah how do you you
00:52:43
have to let that go that contribution
00:52:45
but how do you still about how's your
00:52:48
mental health been the um it seems like
00:52:49
the cancer thing really took its toll on
00:52:52
you but it most mostly been mostly been
00:52:54
good over the years yeah yeah pretty
00:52:56
good actually I I think um again I would
00:52:59
say my exercise has been a big
00:53:03
Factor yeah if I ever sort of feel a bit
00:53:07
down or I am
00:53:09
not thinking clearly it's incredible the
00:53:12
difference for me if I go for a run or I
00:53:14
go for a walk um I remember one of my
00:53:16
ex-boyfriends once said to me um
00:53:18
he said you're grumpy go out go for a
00:53:21
run yeah it's so trans it's kind of
00:53:24
weird that it's only like it feels like
00:53:25
it's been just maybe the last 10 years
00:53:26
that we've started seeing a link between
00:53:29
um you know mental health and exercise
00:53:30
everyone's always known about the
00:53:32
physical benefits I mean I'm such a
00:53:34
health
00:53:42
ier Helen all connected with the gut all
00:53:45
connected with your hormone cycles and
00:53:48
just sort of production of Serotonin and
00:53:51
oxytocin again it's it's sort of like
00:53:53
people have known it for a long time but
00:53:55
now all of the
00:53:57
links and Science and much more yeah so
00:54:01
after after recovering from um the
00:54:03
cancer you you went back to work and you
00:54:05
were at work like a few years after that
00:54:06
three years two years three years
00:54:09
I'm back in January of 2017. right
00:54:13
um so yeah like it's another three and a
00:54:15
half years yeah
00:54:16
so three and a half years yeah yeah was
00:54:19
your hat still and I mean I I guess it
00:54:21
was like you ended up being Deputy
00:54:22
[ __ ] leader was your heart still in
00:54:24
it and you still yeah I mean I was
00:54:26
[Music]
00:54:27
my heart was still in it and that you
00:54:29
know became minister of Education which
00:54:31
was a dream and it was pretty incredible
00:54:34
even though it was only for a short
00:54:35
period of time you know got some a few
00:54:38
major decisions through around like
00:54:39
digital fluency in schools and
00:54:42
decile system and stuff but I certainly
00:54:45
think moving
00:54:47
through particularly as well with um
00:54:51
leadership stuff and again I'd be pretty
00:54:53
careful what I say publicly about that
00:54:55
stuff because I don't want to
00:54:56
open Old Wounds
00:54:59
um but but I think it sounds like it's
00:55:02
on the tip of your tongue like the stuff
00:55:03
that you want to say I love the
00:55:05
self-editing though I think the thing is
00:55:08
that I didn't think that I would be
00:55:12
and politics for long we didn't see a
00:55:15
chance that Simon was going to win but
00:55:17
yeah I certainly in the nature of health
00:55:21
and everything I was there to kind of
00:55:23
help
00:55:23
for a period back yeah yeah it was um a
00:55:27
good time not a long time yeah
00:55:29
yeah and and you need and I
00:55:38
and I um or you know without where I was
00:55:41
needed or
00:55:42
um or if your heart isn't it whatever in
00:55:45
pull me out the back and say get out
00:55:48
um and the nature of the sacrifices and
00:55:51
the job you have to have people who are
00:55:55
100 in it because at the end of your
00:55:57
email as someone as I say who's life
00:56:00
will either be fundamentally changed or
00:56:02
not yeah if you if your heart's not 100
00:56:05
yet well I think um New Zealand
00:56:08
Parliament was probably lucky to have
00:56:09
you
00:56:10
for as long as um as long as what we did
00:56:12
seems like you're not for the right
00:56:13
reasons not the not the baubles well I I
00:56:18
mean I I think a lot of people in there
00:56:20
are yeah but as I say some powders
00:56:24
corrupt yeah and I think that whole
00:56:26
issue of the environment how they can
00:56:28
change it to make it kind of a better
00:56:30
environment because well there's a thing
00:56:32
I worry about the latest stuff that's
00:56:34
kind of played out on both sides of the
00:56:36
house is that I hope it doesn't
00:56:38
discourage people from going in there
00:56:41
and oh yeah so you're talking about the
00:56:43
um there's the the guy from labor that's
00:56:46
um accused the entire party of bullying
00:56:48
him and also the the the Tauranga guy
00:56:50
yeah uh who who was involved in a
00:56:54
bullying incident when he was 16. yeah
00:56:56
what are you what are your thoughts on
00:56:57
that it seems about rough hey like it's
00:56:59
almost like saying if you [ __ ] up as a
00:57:00
kid you may as well not try and do
00:57:02
anything with your life I mean there's a
00:57:04
QC review so yeah
00:57:06
it is
00:57:07
um but I think the big the bigger thing
00:57:09
is you imagine there might be a couple
00:57:12
of thousand people in New Zealand and
00:57:14
their heart of hearts might have thought
00:57:15
what one day they could be a member of
00:57:17
parliament when stuff like that occurs
00:57:19
what I worry about is a group of people
00:57:22
that just go nowhere in hell
00:57:25
they might be in the community they
00:57:27
might be in business but they're just
00:57:29
like oh
00:57:30
just it just we we need we're a small
00:57:33
country
00:57:34
yeah and I and I say to people look
00:57:37
and they worry about their worry about
00:57:39
media they worry about a whole lot of
00:57:40
things
00:57:41
95 of the job
00:57:43
is either constituency work or policy
00:57:47
work
00:57:48
doing good stuff there's a five percent
00:57:51
that is the public eye and yeah
00:57:54
seems like Obama went about it the right
00:57:56
way remember he put that big book out
00:57:57
and in the book he talked about smoking
00:57:59
smoking weed doing cocaine
00:58:03
I think that that is certainly something
00:58:05
I've said to I've said to people who
00:58:08
have um come and said ah can I really
00:58:10
stand this is what I've done or whatever
00:58:11
and I've just said
00:58:12
get it all out there people there are
00:58:16
lots of people who have done some quite
00:58:19
incredible stuff or you know naughty
00:58:21
stuff or whatever but that you can never
00:58:24
lie you can never ever not tell the
00:58:27
truth and you you know ideally you just
00:58:30
front footer
00:58:32
um
00:58:33
Sam
00:58:35
I think oh yeah the the totaling
00:58:36
gameplay there was a thing that he did
00:58:38
in the Tauranga paper where they said
00:58:40
what's your biggest mistake in life or
00:58:41
biggest regret and he uh he had some
00:58:43
answer like not coming back to New
00:58:45
Zealand sooner in hindsight it was
00:58:47
probably there was probably the
00:58:48
opportunity
00:58:49
I
00:58:54
feel like I'm interviewing
00:58:56
[Laughter]
00:59:01
well I've actually got a mate that um
00:59:03
he's doing very well in business and he
00:59:05
wants to get into politics one day and
00:59:06
I'm like [ __ ] no mate I've been to strip
00:59:08
clubs with you I've seen the things
00:59:10
you've done on a night out
00:59:12
yeah yeah that's true so for you what's
00:59:14
the next um 10 years of your life
00:59:16
looking like
00:59:16
[Music]
00:59:21
um
00:59:21
land there and I'm putting a couple of
00:59:23
pots on the land um yeah I read about
00:59:25
this in women's weekly so how often do
00:59:28
you get there it's a bit of a mission
00:59:29
like big Theory rights I'm working
00:59:32
between New Zealand and the states like
00:59:33
doing some education technology projects
00:59:36
um I've got a Visa for there and yeah I
00:59:38
haven't had heaps of time on Ireland I
00:59:41
also don't have anything on the land
00:59:43
except for a shed so I have been sort of
00:59:46
going over you know staying at different
00:59:48
people's places Etc but I hope yeah I
00:59:51
hope that I spend a large chunk of the
00:59:53
Year there but again I've kind of been
00:59:55
working that out because I've you know
00:59:57
got some projects that are in Auckland
00:59:58
projects that are in the United States
01:00:01
but in my ideal World I'd be spending a
01:00:03
chunk of time there I would why is that
01:00:06
why is it a special place for you
01:00:08
what's the significance
01:00:12
but I'm a little bit spiritual but I
01:00:14
used to every um summer in packaging
01:00:17
every money growing up mum we used to go
01:00:20
camping at Fletcher's Bay at the top of
01:00:23
the coromandel peninsula and I don't
01:00:24
know the barriers always reminded me of
01:00:26
that
01:00:28
um I love the community like I love the
01:00:30
people because I have represented the
01:00:31
area and I know a lot of the people it's
01:00:34
it yeah it's just very quiet like I do
01:00:37
my best thinking when it's quiet and
01:00:39
then I love
01:00:40
running and walking and swimming on the
01:00:44
trails and things I love fishing yeah
01:00:45
yeah I just sort of love the outdoors
01:00:47
yeah
01:00:48
did you do a reality show there when
01:00:50
you're like 17. yeah it does what was
01:00:51
that it's online somewhere right it's on
01:00:53
New Zealand on screen Fish Out of Water
01:00:54
what was that I read about it but I've
01:00:56
never seen it well so
01:01:06
the first reality I think it's the first
01:01:07
reality TV
01:01:09
series I want to say in New Zealand like
01:01:12
um but
01:01:14
I
01:01:15
my parents didn't end up going to the
01:01:17
briefing and I thought I was going on
01:01:19
kind of a head prefix camp
01:01:23
and they thought they were putting the
01:01:27
private school bring a hairdryer kind of
01:01:30
person or whatever all right and they
01:01:31
didn't realize that I'd had a bit of a
01:01:33
experience outdoors and fishing Etc so
01:01:36
it was sort of it
01:01:38
for food and then they took they took us
01:01:40
oh so were you going to be like the were
01:01:41
you supposed to be like the blonde City
01:01:43
princess uh the Kardashian yeah yeah all
01:01:45
right
01:01:47
no so that that didn't occur but it was
01:01:50
quite tough for some of the people
01:01:51
because obviously they filmed us and
01:01:54
then they took a cut like they basically
01:01:57
sort of played out was New Zealand
01:01:59
teenagers don't have the skills to adapt
01:02:01
and survive in a modern environment that
01:02:03
we've got but
01:02:04
it sort of tuned to chaos because
01:02:06
there's a lot of conflict and all that
01:02:08
stuff
01:02:09
what they want isn't it is it worth
01:02:11
watching when was the last time you
01:02:13
watched it uh I was pretty happy not to
01:02:16
see it
01:02:17
in fact I said to one of one of my
01:02:19
political mates I'm gobsmacked this has
01:02:22
never found the light of day and then it
01:02:23
did like a few years and I'm sure he had
01:02:26
something to do with it but yeah if
01:02:27
anyone wants to see it so it's called
01:02:28
Fish Out of Water and it's on is it on
01:02:30
NZ on screen or is it on YouTube
01:02:33
probably
01:02:37
yeah but
01:02:46
like because even after three or four
01:02:49
days the mental deterioration that
01:02:52
occurs of people when they don't have
01:02:54
food like I just said no concept how
01:02:57
quickly people deteriorate and then how
01:03:00
people cope with stress so it's just you
01:03:03
know there was one guy he he pretty much
01:03:05
I don't think he would have lasted like
01:03:07
that many more days
01:03:09
um another guy got pretty aggressive and
01:03:12
so I don't you know Lord of the Flies
01:03:15
inside a book about how just and there
01:03:18
have been other times in my career and
01:03:19
stuff where I've gone
01:03:21
oh yeah people are operating differently
01:03:23
when stress occurs yeah oh absolutely it
01:03:25
brings out I mean it brings out either
01:03:27
the best or worse in people doesn't it
01:03:29
yeah yeah okay so well I suppose we
01:03:31
should wrap this up but um just before
01:03:32
we part any any books that you recommend
01:03:34
like what books for you have been any
01:03:36
standouts that have been particularly
01:03:37
helpful in helping you get through your
01:03:39
journey and your struggles
01:03:42
um I think
01:03:43
I think we should pronounced this name
01:03:45
right
01:03:49
guy it's a it's a book that's focused on
01:03:53
they look at Super generians
01:03:55
um in Japan like I like a lot of stuff
01:03:57
that's sort of come out of Japan I I
01:03:59
like Malcolm Gladwell yeah yeah I like
01:04:03
reading Adam Grant you know he's a
01:04:06
normal he's an organizational
01:04:09
um psychologist right I find I I just
01:04:12
like the stuff that he writes
01:04:13
what else I read in a fair amount of
01:04:16
biographies I still do read the
01:04:18
political the political stuff
01:04:20
um but I also I mean I'm a geek in terms
01:04:23
of Education policy so Andre is like
01:04:25
that if you ever
01:04:27
you're working on different levels
01:04:30
if you're interested because I think
01:04:32
education is so important in the future
01:04:35
of the world because when you plan an
01:04:37
education system you're having to think
01:04:40
far into the future and what does it
01:04:41
look like again I know it's sort of
01:04:44
geeking out but I I like thinking a lot
01:04:47
about the world and then I read trashy
01:04:49
novels do you I like your I'd like um
01:04:52
Jody protocol you know I like her books
01:04:54
you know oh yeah you've seen them I
01:04:56
think my mum reads them yeah
01:04:57
[Laughter]
01:04:58
is it like a slight sort of slap oh no
01:05:02
absolutely not no it's one of those
01:05:04
things like Chiclet is that what they
01:05:06
call it
01:05:07
um probably yeah that's probably what
01:05:09
they call
01:05:10
well I'm out of jug before about you
01:05:12
reading brene brown but I'm guessing you
01:05:13
probably you may not even have any idea
01:05:14
who she is I do know oh you do yeah I
01:05:17
feel like that's a maybe two basic [ __ ]
01:05:19
for you um
01:05:21
no
01:05:23
I do watch online
01:05:26
um fair amount of stuff like she's done
01:05:28
some amazing TED Talks actually
01:05:31
um I um as I say Adam Grant's kind of a
01:05:34
little bit more the organizational
01:05:36
um psychologist
01:05:37
um what's another book that I got at the
01:05:39
moment Atomic habits oh yeah that's a
01:05:41
great book yeah fantastic ones jumping
01:05:44
through there at the moment but I do
01:05:46
like I
01:05:47
anything that surrounds psychology would
01:05:50
you do some papers well you've done
01:05:51
enough study for a lifetime
01:05:53
I think I've done enough study for my
01:05:55
lifetime I mean I'm sort of I'm really
01:05:56
enjoying some of the education projects
01:05:58
that I'm involved in at the moment I
01:06:00
would where I
01:06:02
we're at a virtual reality augmented
01:06:04
reality area
01:06:05
um so I'm I'm doing a little bit with an
01:06:07
American company at the moment but
01:06:09
um also
01:06:10
fascinated by Neuroscience and the
01:06:13
conversion with new technologies so if I
01:06:16
did do any papers it would probably be
01:06:18
in the Neuroscience yeah God you and
01:06:20
your friend with benefits must have some
01:06:21
riveting conversations
01:06:25
more chats about neuroscience and you
01:06:29
mentioned the psychology thing did you
01:06:30
ever engage with a therapist or anything
01:06:32
when you when you're going through some
01:06:34
of your [ __ ] you've been to any therapy
01:06:35
or I have yeah how did you find that how
01:06:38
like how many times did you go sort of
01:06:40
um
01:06:42
um a lot
01:06:43
um yeah you found it good
01:06:48
kind of spiritual right
01:06:52
both
01:06:53
um really good life changing actually
01:06:57
um did you did you because of who you
01:06:59
are did you find it hard to open up and
01:07:01
actually like you'd trust issues or
01:07:03
Olympus right okay
01:07:06
overseas yeah online
01:07:10
right online okay
01:07:13
safe space
01:07:14
I mean it's terrible because there's the
01:07:17
confidentiality thing but of course you
01:07:19
could trust that but but it's a mental
01:07:20
thing in your own for a variety of
01:07:23
reasons this person was recommended to
01:07:24
me but um
01:07:27
I I often say to my mates like
01:07:30
I think this capacity to do personal
01:07:33
work
01:07:35
and however you choose to do that like
01:07:38
obviously professionals have a range of
01:07:40
skills sometimes people have like a
01:07:43
incredible friends who are able to teach
01:07:48
skills of kind of working stuff through
01:07:49
but I for me it's worked and it's been
01:07:53
life-changing but just so I found when I
01:07:56
went it just gave you a different way of
01:07:57
like looking at things or different way
01:07:59
of framing things
01:08:00
I think
01:08:02
um
01:08:02
the mirror thing which is what's that
01:08:06
sometimes they are just reflecting back
01:08:08
to you what you've said
01:08:11
and drawing a few connections because
01:08:15
you might have been thinking it but I
01:08:16
mean you suddenly see that loud and
01:08:17
you're like oh yeah it probably makes
01:08:19
sense but also this particular person
01:08:22
I've seen he's got amazing memories
01:08:24
she's like I think you might have seen
01:08:27
that
01:08:28
oh [ __ ]
01:08:30
yeah no I I actually I think I mean I
01:08:33
think it's if you if you can do some
01:08:36
personal work it's good oh 100 I yeah I
01:08:39
I agree my biggest regret's probably not
01:08:42
doing it sooner I just had this huge
01:08:44
fear of going I know and it's irrational
01:08:46
really yeah it's it's yeah it's really
01:08:47
good it's like a personal trainer for
01:08:48
your mind but yeah that's right you get
01:08:50
to talk about yourself
01:08:51
probably get quite a lot of stigma
01:08:54
um but I feel like they would be
01:08:56
especially in in politics like you
01:08:57
should have to be stoic don't you you
01:08:59
have to
01:09:00
um I I canceled it hopefully times are
01:09:02
changing and that that actually
01:09:06
you're right in that we spend a lot of
01:09:09
time thinking about physical health
01:09:11
but
01:09:13
you're kind of mental health your
01:09:15
relationships
01:09:17
and how you how you hold yourself
01:09:20
sometimes when things go pear-shaped
01:09:23
um
01:09:24
boundaries
01:09:26
you know if you're not if you're not
01:09:27
looking after yourself but you're
01:09:28
looking after everybody else 100
01:09:31
everybody else and you're like after
01:09:32
Southfield That's not healthy it's not a
01:09:34
how do you how do you mean in what
01:09:36
respect like saying no to things or just
01:09:38
splitting yourself too thin or
01:09:40
[Music]
01:09:46
yeah
01:09:47
if you give getting burnt out from like
01:09:49
helping everybody else but again it had
01:09:52
never occurred to me that could be the
01:09:55
case I thought that's life of public
01:09:57
service if I think of the marathon
01:10:00
analogy I would never
01:10:03
think it was an intelligent thing to do
01:10:05
to not feed myself
01:10:08
through a run yeah yeah actually I spend
01:10:10
a lifetime thing about the nutrition and
01:10:12
the water that's required to make a
01:10:14
marathon work
01:10:15
so why the hell wouldn't you do that for
01:10:17
your mind that seems so obvious too
01:10:19
doesn't it yeah but do you think um you
01:10:21
needed the the health skier to come to
01:10:23
that realization
01:10:25
um I reckon probably the way that I am
01:10:30
wired I would have got there eventually
01:10:32
but it certainly happened earlier
01:10:34
accelerated the process yeah sure for
01:10:37
grief and oh and loss and a whole lot of
01:10:40
other things but yeah I I I I sort of I
01:10:42
wish there wasn't such stigma around
01:10:44
that stuff as you say it's like it's um
01:10:48
healthy healthy mind
01:10:50
I'm a massive advocate for it because I
01:10:53
I had a friend who um actually reminded
01:10:56
me a lot of myself and you know he's a
01:10:58
happy guy and he wore a very very good
01:11:00
mask he was he was bipolar but no one
01:11:01
apart from his family knew and yeah um I
01:11:03
worked with him for a number of years
01:11:04
and he didn't want anyone at work to
01:11:07
know because he didn't want it to affect
01:11:08
his workload or chances or whatever and
01:11:11
he he ended up taking his own life and
01:11:13
it occurred to me it was easier for him
01:11:16
to take his own life than it was to
01:11:17
speak to people about it and work
01:11:19
through it it's terrible and that made
01:11:21
me realize [ __ ] you know I'd like to
01:11:23
think I'd never make a decision like
01:11:24
that but it's like I never thought this
01:11:26
guy would do it either yeah so you've
01:11:29
got to prioritize that yeah
01:11:31
so
01:11:32
um what's next for you in the running I
01:11:34
can't with geez we've been chatting for
01:11:35
so long that's been wonderful Nikki K
01:11:37
but was it on podcast or off podcast
01:11:38
that you were telling me about
01:11:39
Antarctica were we recording then uh I'm
01:11:43
not sure but um so well so my mate has
01:11:46
she said I'm we're on a waiting list
01:11:48
again like I I want the experience races
01:11:51
so um I've kind of also gotten my mind
01:11:54
sampling in Africa through a safari or
01:11:56
the 18 that they it was like almost
01:11:59
Ultra marathons oh the comrades
01:12:02
I can't run that far like I I think 40 I
01:12:04
think I think she can well yeah I think
01:12:07
I think I am actually probably best at
01:12:09
like a half marathon but
01:12:12
a full marathon it's kind of where I
01:12:15
want to be yeah when you get to 42k it's
01:12:17
like that's that was the that was longer
01:12:20
than the right amount I always hit the
01:12:22
wall yeah 30k like and think why the
01:12:25
hell did I do this I just always go
01:12:26
through the same process the um the
01:12:28
comrades run in South Africa
01:12:30
um I think it's in Cape Town is there
01:12:32
it's like 90 K's yeah 90 case and uh
01:12:35
they have like a cut off time I think
01:12:36
it's 12 hours and then the race director
01:12:38
at 12 hours stands with us back to the
01:12:41
finish line and fires his gun and if
01:12:44
you're not finished in the cutoff time
01:12:45
you you know so there's people like five
01:12:48
meters 10 meters 15 meters away from the
01:12:50
Finish Line crying we see and
01:12:56
they waited for her to come over the
01:12:59
finish line so it just depends are you
01:13:01
over there with um catwalk yeah yeah
01:13:03
right right yeah yeah they do great work
01:13:06
yeah
01:13:06
yeah I um highly recommend those those
01:13:08
big um Mass participation events yeah
01:13:11
yeah like I've done all six of the world
01:13:13
Majors so there's um Boston New York
01:13:15
Chicago Tokyo Berlin and London and
01:13:18
they're all just Epic
01:13:22
oh that
01:13:24
Tokyo is probably my favorite because I
01:13:25
broke three hours that's the only time
01:13:26
I've done that New York's a really
01:13:28
special eh and I think getting to
01:13:30
Central Park and thinking you're
01:13:30
finished and then like oh [ __ ] no it was
01:13:32
a long way to go yeah Boston's amazing
01:13:34
as well because it's like it's steeped
01:13:36
in so much history
01:13:37
good luck with whatever's next thank you
01:13:40
yeah yeah on a scale of one to ten how
01:13:43
happy are you right now how happy are
01:13:45
you today
01:13:46
seven seven and a half good how about
01:13:49
how about maybe a seven yeah seven I'm
01:13:52
pretty good
01:13:53
I'm pretty good I'm trying to like
01:13:55
hustle this podcast and and make it a
01:13:58
you know make it a career there's a lot
01:14:00
of fear around that at the moment and an
01:14:02
uncertainty but I need to remind myself
01:14:03
to like to be patient and be in the
01:14:05
moment and enjoy the process and not get
01:14:07
ahead of myself but it's hard yeah
01:14:10
um you gotta hustle and let me know when
01:14:12
your podcast is finished
01:14:16
yeah where do your cats live are they in
01:14:18
the city or are they on there they've
01:14:20
been staying in this in the city yeah at
01:14:22
the moment they're um yeah they've been
01:14:24
staying in Auckland but yeah I yeah I'm
01:14:27
trying to work out how the logistics
01:14:28
work into how I mean I think they'll
01:14:30
come on the plane with me oh do you take
01:14:32
the plane over do you because the ferry
01:14:34
cheers they can you can get like
01:14:38
um fears for under a hundred dollars to
01:14:40
go each way but like if you're if I'm
01:14:43
going over for a month or something then
01:14:45
it makes sense to take the cats with me
01:14:47
but we'll see as an X MP does barrier
01:14:51
not give you flight privileges for life
01:14:54
just like there's no purpose just like
01:14:56
that people think XMP I mean it wasn't
01:15:00
it a thing back in the day it was back
01:15:01
in the day yeah
01:15:03
yeah that's good well you seem like
01:15:05
you're in a really good place and um I
01:15:07
can't thank you enough for being so
01:15:08
generous with your time today thank you
01:15:09
for having me yeah and thanks for um
01:15:11
yeah everything you did unselfishly I
01:15:13
think largely for the country I don't
01:15:15
know why anyone would want to do it but
01:15:16
you did thank you thank you
01:15:21
thank you very much for making it all
01:15:23
the way through hope you enjoyed that
01:15:24
again some housekeeping admin I say what
01:15:27
do you call that housekeeping I don't
01:15:28
know I don't know if it's housekeeping I
01:15:30
don't know if it's admin but uh it feels
01:15:31
like the right thing to say at the end
01:15:33
if you could do a couple of little
01:15:34
favors wherever you get your podcast
01:15:36
from most likely apple or Spotify can
01:15:39
you rate the show and if the platform
01:15:41
that you listen to podcast on allows uh
01:15:43
maybe take a minute to write a review
01:15:45
I'm not sure exactly what that stuff
01:15:46
does but I've heard other people on
01:15:48
other podcasts ask for it so it must do
01:15:51
something I'm still learning I've got no
01:15:53
idea what I'm doing I get feedback quite
01:15:55
a bit about the sound quality and stuff
01:15:56
and I'm doing my best I'm um I'm
01:15:59
learning a lot but I am making this up
01:16:01
as I go along and I appreciate you guys
01:16:03
so much for being along for the journey
01:16:05
all right thanks very much and I do hope
01:16:07
to see you next week on Runners only
01:16:09
with dom Harvey
