00:00:00
okay Runners only with dime Harley
00:00:02
Runners only with dom Harvey and Sir
00:00:05
Ashley Bloomfield g'day
00:00:08
oh I mean it's fabulous to have you here
00:00:11
how does it sit with you being called
00:00:13
Sarah oh yeah well people
00:00:16
mostly come up to me and say well do we
00:00:18
call you sir Ashley or is it Dr Ashley
00:00:19
or is it Professor I just call me Ashley
00:00:21
you know so this is New Zealand um
00:00:24
occasionally the titles get you gets
00:00:25
used but uh for the most part uh sort of
00:00:28
I Can Go the whole you know days without
00:00:30
even remembering that it's a thing yet
00:00:31
right well we've got to get to that
00:00:33
Knighthood there's so much um ground to
00:00:36
cover with you first of all the podcast
00:00:37
is called Runners only with dom Harvey I
00:00:40
know you have a relationship with
00:00:41
running you you still run you preferred
00:00:43
sort of form of exercise these days as
00:00:45
mountain biking I believe well I enjoy
00:00:47
time on the mountain bike of course
00:00:48
about six months ago as happens every
00:00:50
now and then there are two sorts of
00:00:51
bikers those who have fallen off their
00:00:53
bike and those who are going to fall off
00:00:54
their bike six months ago I was in the
00:00:56
first group and I break my thumb coming
00:00:58
off the bike so uh it's it's mostly
00:01:01
gentle biking now and it's actually
00:01:02
given me a bit of an opportunity to get
00:01:04
back into a bit of running nothing too
00:01:06
serious yet but trying to rebuild the
00:01:07
fitness because you have um as far as I
00:01:10
am aware you've done the Rotorua
00:01:12
Marathon twice I've done it three times
00:01:14
three times yep and uh yeah so I've done
00:01:17
a marathon three times in my life and
00:01:19
all times it was uh it was twice with
00:01:21
mates and the first and the third time
00:01:23
the second time I went down there to try
00:01:25
and um do the best time I could and
00:01:26
managed to smash out three hours so
00:01:28
that's there was the Pinnacle of my
00:01:30
running career and it's been downhill
00:01:31
since three hours and three hours in you
00:01:34
know kind of zero was just right really
00:01:36
yeah
00:01:37
no desire to go back and try for a sub
00:01:41
three like sub three is like the Mount
00:01:43
Everest for an everyday Runner well I
00:01:44
was in uh I was in you know
00:01:47
you know I'm a little bit older right
00:01:50
now so yeah running is a great thing and
00:01:52
you know the thing I love about running
00:01:54
is it doesn't matter where you are and I
00:01:55
don't go anywhere without my running
00:01:57
shoes because you can just you've got a
00:01:59
set of running shoes you can exercise
00:02:00
and it's such an efficient form of
00:02:02
keeping fit and keeping the old
00:02:03
cardiovascular health there so you know
00:02:06
it's one of the things I really love
00:02:07
about as well as the endorphins of
00:02:08
course yeah I I agree I still can't
00:02:11
believe that um like three hours is a
00:02:13
legit time like regardless of what age
00:02:16
you are that's going to get you know be
00:02:17
a Boston qualifier time I can't believe
00:02:19
you didn't want to go back and go for a
00:02:20
time that they had a two in front of it
00:02:22
oh also three hours in Rotorua rotor is
00:02:24
a notoriously it's a pretty hilly course
00:02:26
yeah it's a sub three on a flat anywhere
00:02:28
yeah well for me uh it was sort of like
00:02:30
uh I felt like I'd reached the Pinnacle
00:02:33
and then uh it could have all been down
00:02:35
but I'll take the win okay so
00:02:38
um we are recording this and
00:02:40
um late March 2023 and uh I was thinking
00:02:43
about it on my run this morning it was
00:02:45
exactly three years ago that um
00:02:48
things were turning to [ __ ] quite
00:02:50
frankly and uh I suppose this is when
00:02:52
you became like well known in New
00:02:53
Zealand what was I said what are we now
00:02:55
22nd of March 22nd of March yes right
00:02:58
this this week period you know we're
00:03:00
right we're sort of right near the end
00:03:02
of it but
00:03:03
like if we go back to last week the
00:03:06
Border shut on the food if it was this
00:03:08
time three years ago the Border shut to
00:03:10
everybody except kiwis citizens and and
00:03:13
permanent residents returning on the
00:03:15
Thursday
00:03:16
the pm at the time Jacinda radin made
00:03:19
that announcement to the Nation about
00:03:21
the alert level framework and you know
00:03:22
it was a big it was in a big address to
00:03:24
the nation
00:03:25
and said we're going to be an alert
00:03:27
level two for a couple of weeks well
00:03:28
Sunday everything changed because we
00:03:30
could see actually two weeks was was too
00:03:32
long and Monday the announcement was
00:03:34
okay people we're in alert level 3 and
00:03:36
Wednesday which is basically today but
00:03:38
that you know as we talk we go into a
00:03:42
full lockdown uh so and here's the point
00:03:45
things were turning to custard overseas
00:03:47
and we had an opportunity if we acted
00:03:49
quickly to avoid the same here and by
00:03:51
goodness um not everything went right
00:03:54
over the next two or three years but
00:03:55
there was one decision that was really
00:03:57
well timed yeah yeah that must have been
00:04:00
um I mean it was a surreal term for
00:04:02
everyone but I'm thinking you know for
00:04:03
me it meant going to the supermarket and
00:04:06
seeing people panic buying you know
00:04:07
toilet paper and canned food but for you
00:04:10
I guess it was um you know just a
00:04:13
whirlwind of a time for a completely
00:04:14
different reason you must have been like
00:04:16
like 80 nowadays 20 hour days what well
00:04:18
a pretty long day so I think the the key
00:04:20
thing was
00:04:22
um
00:04:22
for me it and as you've alluded to what
00:04:25
what transpired to be the key role that
00:04:27
I played was was the the community of
00:04:30
public communication alongside either
00:04:31
the prime minister or a minister and I
00:04:34
had to just Focus my my uh my work and
00:04:38
my life on that so I handed over quite a
00:04:40
few of my responsibilities to other
00:04:41
colleagues at a chief executive role of
00:04:44
the Ministry of Health I handed but you
00:04:46
know that side of it over to someone
00:04:47
because that Focus that was required the
00:04:50
mental and physical effort that was
00:04:52
required to prepare for and kind of see
00:04:55
through those daily stand-ups and then
00:04:58
you know it was a bit of recovery period
00:04:59
afterwards that was really the big focus
00:05:01
and of course when we started them back
00:05:04
at the end of January we had no idea
00:05:05
that they were going to become such an
00:05:07
important part of of their communication
00:05:10
with the public and of sort of rallying
00:05:12
people I use this definition of
00:05:14
leadership as being a collective call to
00:05:16
action and it was you know that the
00:05:19
daily stand-ups were how people kept in
00:05:22
touch with what we needed to do
00:05:23
collectively to to
00:05:26
yeah and there was I think 307 of them
00:05:29
that you did at the end those stand-ups
00:05:30
those 1pm briefings
00:05:32
um we're gonna get there's so much
00:05:33
ground cover and we will get to that
00:05:36
um but first of all director general of
00:05:38
Health like what does that mean because
00:05:39
in my entire life I think you're
00:05:41
probably the only director general of
00:05:43
Health that I could name well that's
00:05:45
right uh it's not usually a role that
00:05:47
anyone knows that it's there let alone
00:05:49
who's in the role is that how it should
00:05:51
be well if you have a dream Runners
00:05:53
director General that's right yeah I'd
00:05:55
obviously didn't ring the fine print on
00:05:56
my contractor but you know this is the
00:05:59
thing I mean all government departments
00:06:01
Ministries whether it's education Social
00:06:03
Development uh you know primary
00:06:06
Industries they've all got a chief
00:06:07
executive in some of those roles uh have
00:06:10
got quite sort of old-fashioned
00:06:13
anachronistic titles director general of
00:06:15
Health you've got the Comptroller of
00:06:17
Customs uh you know there's the the
00:06:20
commissioner of of ird so there are
00:06:24
specific titles for a number of these
00:06:25
roles but you're also the chief
00:06:27
executive of that organization and I
00:06:29
guess the the role of director general
00:06:31
of health is there are two parts to it
00:06:33
one is you and your organization are the
00:06:36
principal advisors the government around
00:06:38
Health policy and health matters but
00:06:40
also the role sort of leads the health
00:06:42
system and given us is a pretty complex
00:06:45
system
00:06:47
um that's it's a big role even in
00:06:49
peacetime it's a huge and complex role
00:06:51
it's not very often you open the
00:06:53
newspaper pandemic or no pandemic and
00:06:56
you don't find health either on the
00:06:58
front page or fairly close to it okay so
00:07:00
the director of general of health is
00:07:02
always a busy job it's it's always a
00:07:04
huge job really yeah um so let's go
00:07:06
right back to the beginning so you were
00:07:07
born in Napier in the late 1960s school
00:07:10
teacher mum military Dad yeah so
00:07:13
military dad part-time he was my my
00:07:15
mother was a primary school teacher and
00:07:17
my dad who was from a farm in southern
00:07:19
Hawke's Bay Hong konga
00:07:21
um you know real rural upbringing there
00:07:23
and Danny Boyce high he was a mechanic
00:07:25
he got a mechanic apprenticeship uh but
00:07:28
like a lot from his generation you know
00:07:30
never never had tertiary education but
00:07:32
clearly was was smart and had ambition
00:07:35
and um and that kind of his career
00:07:39
actually progressed when he finished he
00:07:41
was the chief executive of Mitsubishi
00:07:42
Motors New Zealand that's right it was a
00:07:44
man from the shop floor right right to
00:07:46
that role yeah yeah yeah so what was his
00:07:48
role in the military well he was uh he
00:07:51
did his compulsory military training and
00:07:53
didn't enjoy it very much but but also
00:07:56
uh saw the potential of being in the
00:07:59
territorials and he joined he was in an
00:08:01
infantry and he rose through the ranks
00:08:03
and became a lieutenant colonel he was
00:08:04
commander of one of New Zealand's
00:08:05
infantry battalions before he finished
00:08:08
up in the late 70s and you know little
00:08:11
known fact I actually followed him this
00:08:12
one steps and I've done my officer
00:08:14
training in the late 80s and wasn't
00:08:16
commissioned into the medical Corps I
00:08:18
was commissioned as an infantry officer
00:08:19
and I did that for a number of years
00:08:21
um actually based here at the Battalion
00:08:23
in Auckland and uh you know again all
00:08:26
these life experiences shape who you are
00:08:28
and and so when you put in these kind of
00:08:30
really s challenging crisis type
00:08:33
situations
00:08:34
to be honest some of the training and
00:08:37
experience end the degree to which I was
00:08:39
pushed during officer training you know
00:08:42
was actually incredibly helpful do you
00:08:44
feel like you got both um your parents
00:08:46
traits like um I suppose the nurturing
00:08:48
side from your mum being a school
00:08:50
teacher and you know they I suppose the
00:08:52
strict business side from your dad being
00:08:54
you know a military man
00:08:56
yeah well uh
00:08:58
say I did and you know both my parents
00:09:00
are dead now my mum passed in 2008 and
00:09:03
Dad about five years ago and 20 uh
00:09:05
started 2018 and
00:09:08
I feel you know I think about them every
00:09:10
day I feel them every day and it's funny
00:09:13
because I'm close to my brother and
00:09:14
sister and we see them in each other and
00:09:17
often joke about it but you're right and
00:09:19
my mother being a primary school teacher
00:09:20
you know we kind of
00:09:22
got a little that that Head Start in
00:09:24
life because she was interested in
00:09:26
teaching us to read and and so on and of
00:09:28
course she was very interested in us
00:09:30
doing as well as possible through our
00:09:32
education and without being pushy
00:09:35
because neither of them were pushy but
00:09:37
they were just really supportive and
00:09:39
gave us every opportunity yeah so your
00:09:41
dad wasn't strict I'd imagine he was but
00:09:45
um
00:09:45
but if anything uh more that
00:09:49
like many of his generation he didn't
00:09:52
know how to show affection and the
00:09:55
wonderful thing I saw was when he had
00:09:57
grandchildren he and often this happens
00:10:00
especially men of that generation that
00:10:02
was when he he learned to show physical
00:10:05
affection and emotional you know respond
00:10:07
emotionally not just to his
00:10:09
grandchildren but to his children as
00:10:11
well and so you know our relationship
00:10:13
with him once we had our own children
00:10:15
was quite different and it was a lovely
00:10:17
thing actually and I'm so pleased he got
00:10:19
you know that that was something that he
00:10:21
was able to enjoy in his life yeah yeah
00:10:23
that's so funny that I think it's a
00:10:25
product of the generation like I'm um
00:10:27
I'm just a few years behind you but I
00:10:28
was you know like
00:10:30
um my uncles they they if you were
00:10:32
naughty they could spank you but you're
00:10:34
like yeah anyone was up for a spanking
00:10:36
and I never said my uncle John who was a
00:10:37
Dairy Farmer never saw him cry once now
00:10:39
you'll see me to 21st or 50th whatever
00:10:41
the function is and he'll be born yeah
00:10:44
my father was the same you know and
00:10:46
again I think it was a lovely thing that
00:10:48
these men of that generation who didn't
00:10:50
necessarily experience it when they were
00:10:52
children you know their physical and
00:10:53
emotional
00:10:54
interaction and affection with their
00:10:56
parents that they were able to to you
00:10:58
know to experience that in their later
00:11:00
life yeah yeah I finally let some walls
00:11:02
down and show a bit of vulnerability so
00:11:04
you grew up in tawa yeah tawa was where
00:11:06
we shift I was six years old we shifted
00:11:08
to Tower big move South and to be honest
00:11:11
my father applied for a job in
00:11:13
Wellington he was quite happy as service
00:11:14
manager of what was called Townsend
00:11:16
Motors in Napier but it was my mother
00:11:18
that prompted him and one of the reasons
00:11:20
why she went to cheated her teacher
00:11:21
training in Wellington and just loved
00:11:23
the place and she just wanted to go back
00:11:25
so she got him to apply for a job down
00:11:27
there and uh and we'd made you know we
00:11:29
loaded the car up put the cat in the in
00:11:31
the cage and then uh off we we totaled
00:11:33
down on the Hillman Superman's to Tower
00:11:35
where I you know did my my growing up
00:11:37
and it seems like you were you're a good
00:11:39
kid um first 15 head pre-feet in the
00:11:42
School production for Oklahoma
00:11:44
um were you like a like a like a nerdy
00:11:47
kid a goody two shoes like you're people
00:11:50
from your school year that didn't like
00:11:52
you what's like what's the worst thing
00:11:53
they could say about at you
00:11:55
she
00:12:02
make no mistake I wasn't a goody two
00:12:04
shoots you know I mean I got into
00:12:05
trouble including his head prefect ideas
00:12:07
say but uh do you like what
00:12:09
I just you know a little bit of um you
00:12:12
know misbehavior in the chemistry lab
00:12:14
with the water bottles uh which uh the
00:12:16
teacher didn't take too kind to read a
00:12:18
few other things okay but the point here
00:12:19
is you know and you've described some
00:12:21
things I just loved and this is one of
00:12:23
the sacrifices my parents did make we
00:12:25
lived in tawa Tower College was a good
00:12:26
college but they sent us to Scots my
00:12:29
brother and myself um yeah big Trek
00:12:31
across town train and bus and I mean
00:12:33
that was an experience in itself uh
00:12:35
every day but when it came to secondary
00:12:38
schooling we had they had intended us to
00:12:40
come back to Tower but we just had
00:12:41
sealed into Scots and the opportunities
00:12:43
there were were manifold
00:12:45
um you know we had uh that the sporting
00:12:48
and the cultural things I was in the
00:12:50
pipe band I was in the choirs and the
00:12:51
school productions I played the flute I
00:12:53
you know put me put to a school band uh
00:12:55
you know rock band with some mates I
00:12:57
loved sport and of course you could do
00:12:59
athletics and you could do swimming and
00:13:01
rugby and I was useless at cricket bat
00:13:03
where he had a bit of a social team so I
00:13:06
just think the opportunity I was a jack
00:13:07
of all trades and so I think you know
00:13:10
school years and I've got a I'm still
00:13:12
really close to a number of guys from my
00:13:13
from my school year we get together
00:13:15
quite often and um just a you know
00:13:18
really I have great memories of that
00:13:20
time yeah it seems like you were um like
00:13:23
just a phenomenal kid I went to
00:13:25
um Palmerston North boys high school and
00:13:27
uh the the guys in the first 15 were
00:13:29
like very very good rugby players but
00:13:31
very few of them were really intelligent
00:13:32
so there was like um those sort of jocks
00:13:34
and then there was the intelligent
00:13:36
people that were nerds but it feels like
00:13:37
you had the theater aspect going on the
00:13:39
sport aspect the intelligence well uh
00:13:42
you know I guess I was uh blessed I was
00:13:44
I was you know reasonably smart but also
00:13:47
again and I put a lot of a lot of the
00:13:49
credit to my mother and she created
00:13:51
opportunities you know I can remember
00:13:53
for years as a kid tricking along to
00:13:56
piano lessons and thinking why am I
00:13:57
doing this and oh my goodness and then
00:14:00
guitar lessons and then she really loved
00:14:01
the flute so she asked me to take up
00:14:04
Luna flute but I tell you what uh you
00:14:06
know a few years down the track I just
00:14:08
was so grateful that she made me do that
00:14:09
and I was always interested in sport and
00:14:12
you know what it's like as a kid in
00:14:13
those days I mean tawa we ruled the
00:14:15
streets we we were out the whole you
00:14:16
know after school you were out on the
00:14:18
streets on your bike you would build
00:14:19
trolleys and you'd race them up and down
00:14:21
the street um you know but here raising
00:14:23
I have to say at times but you we had
00:14:26
the bush over the road so we were always
00:14:27
outside as well so you know we were fit
00:14:30
and and uh and then you know you could
00:14:32
you have an expression of that by
00:14:33
through playing your rugby or your
00:14:35
Cricket or or running or whatever it
00:14:37
might be yeah and um you you wanted to
00:14:40
be a pilot I believe until you're about
00:14:44
that stayed with me right through
00:14:45
probably till I was about 14 and then a
00:14:48
visit to the hospital one day on a sort
00:14:50
of a you know an open sort of thing and
00:14:52
um
00:14:53
maybe maybe medicine's the thing and and
00:14:57
then that really shaped my last few
00:14:58
years at school because you had to do
00:15:00
all three Sciences so that was good I
00:15:02
still managed to keep up um some other
00:15:05
things I did I did Rush in through as
00:15:06
Scots was one of the few schools in the
00:15:08
country at that time that taught Russian
00:15:10
so I did Russian a bit of French and so
00:15:12
on but you know really started to hit
00:15:14
the focus on the sciences and then uh
00:15:17
managed to get just enough marks to
00:15:18
scrape into Medical School and came up
00:15:20
here to Auckland yeah so why medicine
00:15:22
was there a moment what was it an
00:15:24
episode of Jordan Street
00:15:29
it was just you know being in the
00:15:31
hospital and talking to people and
00:15:32
seeing and then you know I was
00:15:35
um I'd been brought up in the church so
00:15:37
that was quite a big shaper of my values
00:15:39
and you know the the thing about
00:15:41
um just you know kindness and looking
00:15:44
after other people and and caring for
00:15:46
others I guess was a was a sort of a
00:15:48
value base that I had and so it fitted
00:15:50
well with a with um with the opportunity
00:15:52
to do medicine
00:15:54
what's your religion well uh now I say
00:15:58
people say oh so you've got a faith I've
00:16:00
got a faith but not a traditional one
00:16:02
now but you know I'm a very eclectic Max
00:16:03
I was brought up in the Baptist Church
00:16:05
and tawa had an incredibly strong
00:16:07
Baptist Church uh and very musical uh so
00:16:10
a lot of the music I I experienced was
00:16:12
through the church it was a fantastic
00:16:14
opportunity I went so uh Baptist start
00:16:17
bringing me to a presbyterian School uh
00:16:19
my wife's now a lay chaplain and and
00:16:22
very active in our local Anglican Church
00:16:24
one of the kids is christened as an
00:16:27
Anglican two are Presbyterians and so on
00:16:29
so an Eclectic mix what I would say is
00:16:32
um in terms of you know my life those
00:16:36
Christian values are the things that
00:16:38
have really kind of shaped who I am and
00:16:40
I talk now you know when I do my
00:16:42
leadership talk I talk about values and
00:16:44
the one that's top of the list is
00:16:45
kindness and if you look at all the
00:16:48
world's major religions kindness is an
00:16:51
absolute fundamental principle it's
00:16:53
about doing things for other people
00:16:54
without expecting reciprocity and it's
00:16:57
kind of what distinguishes us as humans
00:16:59
actually from other species that we do
00:17:02
that you know it's funny you should say
00:17:03
that I I had um Adam parory sitting in
00:17:05
this chair last week on the podcast and
00:17:07
at the end of the chat I said to my
00:17:08
you're you're really kind and uh he had
00:17:11
like a nervous laugh and then we got
00:17:13
talking about the word kind and it's
00:17:14
like in my 20s I I would have like sort
00:17:17
of thought of anyone calling me kind but
00:17:18
now it's like I'll take it as the
00:17:20
highest compliment oh absolutely I think
00:17:21
you're doing well if yeah I agree I I
00:17:23
you know I make it really kind of sad
00:17:25
people like I'm a fully paid up member
00:17:26
of the kindness club actually uh and you
00:17:30
know and uh there's just such good
00:17:32
evidence actually really good evidence
00:17:34
about the importance of kindness and
00:17:36
also for your own well-being acts of
00:17:39
kindness to other people incredibly
00:17:41
supportive of your own mental and and
00:17:43
physical and emotional well-being yeah
00:17:45
so um so how brutal is medicine School
00:17:50
you see you qualify and then um don't
00:17:53
half the people get like kicked out
00:17:54
after the first year well it's something
00:17:56
a lot harder now than it was I would say
00:17:58
you know my mates who I went through
00:18:00
medical school and I often say to each
00:18:02
other I would never have gotten now it's
00:18:04
that that first year there's a huge
00:18:07
number of kids who are Keen to get into
00:18:08
medicine and both otago and Auckland
00:18:10
they do that first year Health Sciences
00:18:12
but the you know only a small proportion
00:18:15
of them really get in and so then those
00:18:18
others go on to do other other degrees
00:18:20
immediately do other health professional
00:18:21
degrees which is fantastic
00:18:24
once you're in though it's uh it's a
00:18:27
very high retention rate yep it's pretty
00:18:29
it's pretty tough it's hard work I mean
00:18:31
I've got our two oldest kids have just
00:18:33
studied engineering and I tell you what
00:18:36
that's four really busy really hard
00:18:39
years it's it's not an easy degree and I
00:18:41
know because I've got a niece and a
00:18:42
nephew who've done or are doing law as
00:18:45
well it's hard work that first year law
00:18:47
here in Auckland a lot of kids do the
00:18:49
first year but not not not a huge
00:18:52
proportion and get through into the
00:18:53
second so it's it's a thing with a lot
00:18:55
of those professional degrees and
00:18:57
medicines no different yeah so so you do
00:18:59
meet us and then um
00:19:01
you at what point do you decide to go
00:19:02
into public health because surely no
00:19:04
one's studying medicine for seven or
00:19:05
eight years to go you know what I'm
00:19:06
going to be a public servant yeah well
00:19:08
that's right I can remember telling my
00:19:10
parents so they're going what what you
00:19:13
kind of study what but you know what
00:19:15
about being a surgeon or something uh
00:19:17
yeah I just mid 90s and a critical thing
00:19:20
was a good mate of mine for medical
00:19:21
school had
00:19:23
because I took a year off in the middle
00:19:24
so I ended up in in the year behind
00:19:27
which was great for finding a wife
00:19:28
because my wife was in that year and we
00:19:30
we got together and got married in our
00:19:31
final year so that was a lovely thing
00:19:34
but this mate of mine was a year ahead
00:19:36
and he he said I I'm on the Public
00:19:38
Health Training scheme I think you'd
00:19:40
enjoy this so I had a bit of a look at
00:19:41
it and thought Oh yeah I'll do this I
00:19:44
loved my clinical medicine I really
00:19:45
actually enjoyed being in the hospital I
00:19:47
did a bit of general practice but I
00:19:49
decided Public Health was a thing and
00:19:51
you know the rest was history well
00:19:53
actually I did most of my Public Health
00:19:56
Training here in Auckland and then
00:19:57
towards the end of it I I said to my
00:20:00
wife
00:20:00
um I'd just like to get some experience
00:20:03
in the policy setting so let's go to
00:20:05
Wellington for six months
00:20:07
to round out my training so we went down
00:20:09
for six months and we're still there 25
00:20:11
years later you know I just loved that
00:20:14
it was the Nexus between public health
00:20:16
and public policy and I just found the
00:20:18
environment stimulating and invigorating
00:20:20
and as my wife says to me I could never
00:20:22
work it's everything's too gray you know
00:20:25
because medicines are very sort of black
00:20:26
and white here are the here's the here
00:20:28
are the symptoms here's the diagnosis
00:20:30
we'll do some tests bumper next next
00:20:32
please but public policy and public
00:20:35
health it's a long-term game yeah you've
00:20:37
got to be tenacious and it's also it's
00:20:40
about the art of the possible so anyway
00:20:42
I just love the Wellington environment
00:20:44
and and state and I suppose you got the
00:20:46
chance to have a lot of people rather
00:20:48
than just like individuals that's
00:20:50
exactly it it's I thought that and so an
00:20:52
example and uh not so much now but in
00:20:55
early in my career in the in the
00:20:57
naughties I was heavily involved in
00:20:58
Tobacco Control and I can remember as 20
00:21:01
years ago that the legislation to create
00:21:02
smoke-free workplaces was passed and at
00:21:05
the time there wasn't even 50 percent
00:21:07
report for that within three months it's
00:21:10
even 70 of even smokers supported it
00:21:12
because we suddenly I mean can you
00:21:14
remember the days of going out
00:21:25
they can go days without even seeing a
00:21:28
smoker you know this is a thing now in
00:21:31
New Zealand uh it's different in Europe
00:21:32
having just been in Geneva last month
00:21:34
you walk down the street still yes no
00:21:36
smoking inside workplaces but you can
00:21:38
you just walk through this cloud of
00:21:40
smoke as you walk down the street it's
00:21:41
quite unpleasant well even yeah even
00:21:43
like if you're flying some plans around
00:21:44
in new on the New Zealand flight there's
00:21:46
still plans that have the old um
00:21:48
ashtrays that's crazy did someone Smoke
00:21:51
On A Plane yeah and so you know now here
00:21:53
we are
00:21:54
I was working on it you know we had
00:21:56
really high rates of smoking by our year
00:21:58
10 students four formers and we do a
00:22:00
survey every year now
00:22:03
95 to you know over 95 percent of them
00:22:06
of all ethnicities boys and girls have
00:22:08
never even touched a cigarette whereas
00:22:11
back in around 2000 it was sort of 60 of
00:22:15
them had at least tried it and you know
00:22:16
for Maori girls it was really high so
00:22:18
huge change huge benefits for Public
00:22:21
Health big intergenerational benefits
00:22:24
and then of course there are new risks
00:22:27
that come along vaping potentially oh
00:22:28
you love vaping though don't you know
00:22:30
you're mad about the Vape you love a
00:22:32
watermelon Vape
00:22:34
I don't need to be mad about it you sit
00:22:37
there we're at low Med over the weekend
00:22:39
and you know I thought oh this place is
00:22:41
you know I thought there's got to be big
00:22:43
clouds of marijuana smoke hovering over
00:22:45
and was it was Vape you know it was Vape
00:22:47
clouds so when you see someone in
00:22:48
traffic vaping in their car it's the
00:22:50
most obnoxious thing you see these big
00:22:52
clouds of uh Vapors seeping out the
00:22:54
window yeah it's a bit of a bit of a
00:22:56
sidebar here but um what are your
00:22:59
thoughts on alcohol do you feel like
00:23:00
alcohol is hitting the same way as
00:23:01
tobacco in terms of you know the
00:23:03
awareness about it and do you think like
00:23:05
20 years from now or 50 years from now
00:23:07
or whatever the time frame is we'll look
00:23:08
back and go can you believe that you
00:23:10
know alcohol was encouraged to drink for
00:23:12
the antioxidants and for the health
00:23:14
benefits so
00:23:16
you know a few things I have been
00:23:18
involved quite a lot in alcohol policy
00:23:19
both in New Zealand and internationally
00:23:22
uh over the years there are there are a
00:23:24
couple of key differences first of all
00:23:26
alcohol is much more widely used you
00:23:28
know here in New Zealand 80 over 80
00:23:30
percent of people would have a drunk of
00:23:31
alcohol at least once a month so it's a
00:23:34
much more widely used product yes it's a
00:23:37
drug and actually it's it's a quite
00:23:38
harmful drug it's carcinogenic it harms
00:23:42
the fetus so you know improved for
00:23:43
pregnant women there's really good
00:23:45
evidence for these things there's no
00:23:46
dispute but it is much more widely used
00:23:48
and here is the thing it can be consumed
00:23:50
in in the right in small quantities
00:23:53
safely
00:23:55
whereas that's not the same for debate
00:23:56
yeah yeah tobacco is harmful at any
00:23:58
level so those are a couple of key
00:24:00
references so saying there is a huge
00:24:04
burden of Public Health
00:24:07
um
00:24:08
or you know there's a huge Public Health
00:24:10
burden family and uh violence a whole uh
00:24:13
crime a whole lot of things that are
00:24:15
associated with alcohol there's a very
00:24:17
strong association between alcohol and
00:24:19
suicide especially in young people and
00:24:22
these are issues we need to
00:24:25
absolutely look at much harder than we
00:24:28
are and you know I think the media is
00:24:30
actually being pretty good at
00:24:32
highlighting these issues and you've got
00:24:33
uh you know guy on aspener who's who's
00:24:36
just published a book talking about his
00:24:38
experience uh and and a number of other
00:24:41
prominent people I think we will see
00:24:43
policy change here because there is no
00:24:45
doubt there is a burden of harm for
00:24:48
alcohol from alcohol in New Zealand even
00:24:51
though it's it contributes of course
00:24:52
really positively to our economy in many
00:24:54
ways and there are there are some sort
00:24:57
of social benefits as well yeah I had
00:24:59
guy on on the podcast a couple of weeks
00:25:01
ago talking about his book the drinking
00:25:03
game and yeah since then I've been um
00:25:04
just watching I love my Pinot noirs I've
00:25:07
just been watching my intake and being
00:25:09
more mindful about how much I drink look
00:25:11
it's really important you know we often
00:25:13
talk about youth drinking as a problem
00:25:15
actually it's it's often more people
00:25:17
outrageous middle-aged people who coming
00:25:19
home and opening a bottle of wine and
00:25:22
consuming it either themselves or with a
00:25:24
partner is not an uncommon thing and
00:25:26
that is actually quite heavy drinking
00:25:28
and when you're of that age when you
00:25:30
went to University maybe it was
00:25:32
different from Med students I don't know
00:25:33
because you're wiser but you were of
00:25:35
that age when you went to University
00:25:36
where it was a badge of honor if someone
00:25:37
said Bloomfield he can hold his purse oh
00:25:40
totally yeah and there was no difference
00:25:42
oh really you know of course in those
00:25:44
days beer came and caught bottles and by
00:25:46
the crate and uh and you know I
00:25:50
certainly had my my share of experience
00:25:51
here at University
00:25:53
um but it's interesting to see I I don't
00:25:55
see quite so much of that um you know
00:25:58
with with kids who are in there now mid
00:26:00
you know not late teens to mid-20s it's
00:26:02
not quite so much that um
00:26:08
they're a little bit more like aware or
00:26:11
wiser they sort of managed to drink more
00:26:13
like the Europeans do and don't
00:26:15
necessarily get you know just drink to
00:26:16
get intoxicated every time yeah yeah
00:26:18
there's still there's still far too much
00:26:19
of it and of course it goes then to
00:26:21
available
00:26:24
in the links with Sport and sponsorship
00:26:26
we have to address all these things
00:26:27
these were issues with tobacco so on
00:26:30
alcohol I think we could do better and
00:26:32
we would benefit from doing better on
00:26:33
that yeah nice okay so um let's go back
00:26:37
to med school so that this is where you
00:26:38
met your wife Libby I did yeah can you
00:26:40
remember remember that moment who who
00:26:42
laid eyes on who first well is this
00:26:44
early on or through anything with um we
00:26:47
we actually both remember seeing each
00:26:51
other because I was a year ahead and
00:26:52
when you start medical school back in
00:26:54
those days there was a thing called
00:26:56
Fresh's camp and all the medical
00:26:57
students would come together there's
00:26:58
only 100 in each class it was a pretty
00:26:59
small you know quite a close group and
00:27:02
the Frisch's Camp was run by the
00:27:03
students from the year above and I was
00:27:05
involved in running it and I can still
00:27:06
remember seeing her arrive at Frisch's
00:27:08
camp with a friend of hers but
00:27:11
um you know obviously you're ahead we
00:27:13
took a year off in the middle we didn't
00:27:15
actually start going out to about
00:27:16
halfway through our fifth year at med
00:27:18
school and we were married a year later
00:27:20
um you know I could we can still both
00:27:22
Remember The Time Of course when it
00:27:24
happened and we knew and that was that
00:27:26
and you know we're 32 years down the
00:27:28
track and amazing still enjoying each
00:27:30
other's company so it was like a slow
00:27:31
burn like a friendship for a while well
00:27:33
we knew of each other more yeah yeah and
00:27:35
actually interestingly it was her
00:27:37
brother that kind of I got to know and
00:27:40
he he did the matchmaking uh interest
00:27:42
you know sort of so it was outside of
00:27:44
Medical School uh he was quite Keen for
00:27:46
us to get together and he's still a a
00:27:48
great friend and um you know we we were
00:27:51
very close as a family here was it
00:27:54
fairly Mutual was his were you Keener
00:27:55
than her initially and you had to win
00:27:57
her over or vice versa or that was the
00:28:00
thing it was kind of a you know it was
00:28:02
mutual and uh well it's nice so the
00:28:04
moment arrived and suddenly that was it
00:28:05
we knew and you know you know I can
00:28:08
safely say within two months it was she
00:28:10
was she it was it was my wife that
00:28:12
raised getting married first yeah is
00:28:14
that right within two months and it was
00:28:16
more the question was so when are we
00:28:18
going to get married that was that it
00:28:20
wasn't a you know or shall we get
00:28:21
married to you like when you know you
00:28:23
know when you know you know um and after
00:28:25
that point the Press she was pressuring
00:28:26
you to propose like no no we just
00:28:28
planned it all out because the fifth
00:28:30
year of medical school is the big one
00:28:31
and you have exams at the end of the
00:28:33
year that are substantial and we did a
00:28:35
lot of study she's a she's really smart
00:28:38
but she's an A plus student I am not an
00:28:40
A plus student so I did have the benefit
00:28:42
of her um her diligence uh did sort of
00:28:45
rush off on me and I got my best marks
00:28:47
ever at Medical School in that year but
00:28:49
we just we decided as soon as the exams
00:28:51
are finished we're going to get engaged
00:28:52
that that day and so we we got engaged
00:28:55
that same day I did the traditional
00:28:56
thing and went and kind of semi asked
00:28:59
her father for permission uh and he was
00:29:01
he appearance so I think we're we're
00:29:03
sort of you know uh well they were they
00:29:05
were delighted I think uh and uh you
00:29:08
know they're great as I said earlier on
00:29:09
my parents have passed now so it's
00:29:11
lovely to have her parents that that in
00:29:13
a sense my kind of um uh now my my
00:29:16
parents and we're we're all very close
00:29:18
it's just a lovely thing here yeah yeah
00:29:19
well I've I've just turned 15 both my
00:29:22
parents are still alive but obviously
00:29:23
they're getting older I think um yeah in
00:29:25
anything after the age of 50 if your
00:29:27
parents are still around you're doing
00:29:28
you're doing pretty lucky aren't you
00:29:30
um can you remember the proposal was it
00:29:31
a romantic proposal or yeah well of
00:29:33
course this wasn't a surprise you know I
00:29:36
didn't see people
00:29:38
yeah we've gone and chosen the ring and
00:29:40
we we yeah we did we went down to the
00:29:42
Waterfront there on Tamaki Drive Mission
00:29:44
Bay and just
00:29:45
you know formally I proposed to hear and
00:29:48
it was just lovely and uh yeah it's it's
00:29:51
a special thing really
00:29:53
um and
00:29:54
uh yeah it's nice to still be kicking
00:29:56
around together oh absolutely
00:29:59
is there anything any sort of secret or
00:30:01
anything that you've you know your whole
00:30:03
you think is the the key or the
00:30:05
Cornerstone or the the pillars to your
00:30:07
successful marriage uh yeah well it's a
00:30:10
bit like leadership that that the
00:30:12
hardest domain of leadership is leading
00:30:14
self and so the the the the best way to
00:30:17
have good relationships with other
00:30:18
people including with your you know your
00:30:20
lifelong partner is the is to understand
00:30:23
yourself really well and be on that that
00:30:26
journey of maturity and growth and yeah
00:30:28
and uh but fundamentally it's also about
00:30:31
communication you know you've got to
00:30:32
keep communicating about what what what
00:30:34
what's going well and what's not going
00:30:36
so well and just it's the same with
00:30:39
anything yeah it's and a lot of hard
00:30:41
work I mean that's the other thing is
00:30:42
you've got to put effort in you've got
00:30:44
to put work in to relationship we do it
00:30:47
we do it all the time but of course the
00:30:49
person you kind of spinning your your
00:30:51
life with you've got to keep putting the
00:30:53
work in yeah I suppose that's the hard
00:30:55
thing about it especially like um during
00:30:57
the last three years for you like if
00:30:58
you're busy at work all day and you're
00:31:00
doing these one o'clock briefings and
00:31:01
you come home the probably the last
00:31:03
thing you want to do is have a
00:31:04
conversation or talk about mundane but
00:31:07
very important you know home stuff well
00:31:09
well that's the challenge and you know
00:31:10
Libya was fantastic she kept our home
00:31:13
covered free in both the literally and
00:31:15
the metaphorical sense so when I came
00:31:17
home I wasn't a debrief on Covert she
00:31:18
wasn't asking me well you know what's
00:31:20
the latest she would she would watch the
00:31:22
world with everybody else but um uh the
00:31:28
the thing was
00:31:29
um I did try and I've always tried to
00:31:31
come home because you know I've been in
00:31:32
senior roles for quite a while and so
00:31:34
you've got to come home and it's you
00:31:36
can't come home and just just crash on
00:31:38
the sofa and say all right grab me a
00:31:40
beer I'm just done you've got to come
00:31:42
home and have energy for your whanau
00:31:44
you've got to be your best self
00:31:46
um and there's no you know you're in the
00:31:48
wrong job if you're coming home and just
00:31:49
feeling complete it that doesn't mean
00:31:52
you don't come home and you're not tired
00:31:53
but the thing was and you've alluded to
00:31:55
this was my headspace so you know a
00:31:57
classic conversation would be you know
00:31:59
it'll be good you know would say all
00:32:00
right there's a couple things I need to
00:32:02
talk about with you you know just
00:32:03
general stuff and I'd say I've just I've
00:32:06
just got a head full of stuff at the
00:32:07
moment I've got this I'm just working
00:32:09
through
00:32:10
um and she would say quite rightly when
00:32:12
can we talk about it and I would say I
00:32:14
can't even think about when you know
00:32:16
wind might be a good time yeah speak to
00:32:18
my PA get an appointment but the thing
00:32:21
was when I did finish and you know when
00:32:22
I sort of hung up my boots as it were at
00:32:24
the end of July last year and suddenly
00:32:27
got my brain back and it made me realize
00:32:29
I was carrying the co the analogy I used
00:32:33
I was carrying the covered thousand
00:32:35
piece jigsaw puzzle in my head the whole
00:32:37
time and it was a jigsaw puzzle where I
00:32:39
didn't have the benefit of the picture
00:32:40
on the box to start with and every bit
00:32:43
of information that came along I had to
00:32:44
work out where does this go what's the
00:32:46
picture and that had taken my entire
00:32:48
virtually my entire brain capacity for
00:32:51
two or three years so when I you know
00:32:52
left when I walked out of the building
00:32:54
suddenly when she said when Libby said
00:32:57
uh or can we talk about a couple things
00:32:59
yeah yeah let's do it right now you know
00:33:01
and you know what a relief for her yeah
00:33:04
she'd been so patient so yeah at six
00:33:07
months six months they're kind of just
00:33:09
doing it yeah
00:33:11
a big to-do list tell you what actually
00:33:14
it was the long list of things
00:33:16
you could enjoy doing them together
00:33:18
without the pressure of you know
00:33:19
thinking oh gosh I've got a I've got
00:33:21
Mike asking at five to seven tomorrow
00:33:22
morning better start you know you know
00:33:24
mentally preparing for that yeah is that
00:33:26
a stressful thing like if you were
00:33:29
actually we can play fast forward and
00:33:30
we'll get into the into the pandemic
00:33:31
stuff because I'm mindful of your time
00:33:33
here
00:33:33
um
00:33:35
but I've been thinking about you and
00:33:36
what you do a lot because it's
00:33:39
and in terms of those one o'clock
00:33:40
briefings
00:33:41
for the journalists that are in the room
00:33:43
it's like a win for them if they can
00:33:45
catch you with your pants down or if
00:33:47
they can catch you off guard and I think
00:33:48
one thing you were very good at is um
00:33:50
you know just just being honest and
00:33:52
being knowledgeable saying when you knew
00:33:53
something and saying when you didn't
00:33:54
know something but if you say you don't
00:33:56
know something too many times that's
00:33:58
when they go this guy's a goon we've got
00:34:00
to get him out of here so you're in a
00:34:02
room of people that are basically trying
00:34:04
to it's like you're betting in cricket
00:34:06
and each of them is a bowler that's
00:34:07
trying to bowl you out that is that is
00:34:10
stressful it is stressful and I'm glad
00:34:13
you used the cricketing analogy Cricket
00:34:14
got me into trouble at one point because
00:34:16
I went to a black cats game when I
00:34:17
wasn't supposed to if I haven't been
00:34:19
invited but but the cricket analogy is a
00:34:22
good one you know because the first six
00:34:24
weeks or so of the pandemic when when
00:34:26
this was all going off were the most
00:34:27
stressful because there was so much
00:34:29
uncertainty you didn't know where it was
00:34:31
going and I was literally waking up at
00:34:33
three in the morning on the dot in a
00:34:35
cold sweat I'd be you know dreaming
00:34:37
covert it was just occupying my sleeping
00:34:40
and waking time and oh I'm going to get
00:34:43
this wrong uh it's it's all going to go
00:34:45
badly I'll get thrown under the bus you
00:34:47
know I wasn't so worried about myself I
00:34:48
was worried about making the wrong calls
00:34:51
giving the wrong advice
00:34:52
but then one morning I don't know what
00:34:54
it was I just got up and I thought hey
00:34:57
it's okay you've trained you've got um
00:35:00
you've got great people around you all
00:35:02
you can do and I've been starting to do
00:35:04
that um the stand-ups by this point yeah
00:35:07
and I've had some really helpful
00:35:08
feedback from my team when you know I'd
00:35:10
started the stand-ups had started become
00:35:12
a bit of a thing and this was before the
00:35:13
lockdown and you know it was who was the
00:35:15
stop the Bloomfield guy and people were
00:35:17
watching and and there was something
00:35:19
funny that someone had put on social
00:35:20
media after the stand up that day and I
00:35:22
got back to the ministry and my team
00:35:24
were all there huddled around the
00:35:25
computer twittering away and they said
00:35:26
come and have a look at this what was it
00:35:28
so this is pretty this is preet a lot
00:35:30
yeah so because if this doesn't spread
00:35:32
your legs no no this was just generally
00:35:34
you know the kind of it was when I was
00:35:36
you know because it would become a daily
00:35:37
thing and there was big decisions maybe
00:35:39
it was one I'd done with the PM or with
00:35:41
the minister but they they showed me
00:35:44
this and I can't remember what it was
00:35:45
but one of them turned to me and said we
00:35:47
don't get it we just see you out there
00:35:49
being yourself every day and I said tell
00:35:51
me if that changes because that was all
00:35:53
I could do was be myself and I got up
00:35:55
more and more and I think just just play
00:35:57
a straight bet that's all you can do so
00:36:00
you never know whether it's a googly
00:36:02
coming down or a bouncer but you know
00:36:04
you've just got to play a straight bet
00:36:05
and for my part I had the advantage of
00:36:08
not being a politician and you've made
00:36:10
this point you can say actually it's
00:36:13
okay to say and people don't expect you
00:36:14
to have all the answers so it's okay to
00:36:16
say we don't know that at the moment or
00:36:19
I don't have that information with me
00:36:21
but we will get it to you it's you know
00:36:23
straight after this yeah but if you say
00:36:24
pull out that card too many times that's
00:36:25
when people are going to be like this
00:36:26
guy we need someone else in there
00:36:27
someone that does so this was the point
00:36:29
is that because we were in that
00:36:30
situation where nobody knew I think
00:36:32
people okay you know the Public's
00:36:33
actually pretty Discerning if you say if
00:36:36
you're the Minister of Finance to say
00:36:37
you don't know the latest um inflation
00:36:39
rate well there you've got a problem
00:36:41
but if it's clearly emergent information
00:36:43
and this is the point I mean I I did
00:36:46
make sure I was incredibly well briefed
00:36:48
including on the detail and so one of
00:36:51
the things that gave me confidence to
00:36:53
hold that kind of overall narrative was
00:36:55
knowing that if I got asked a question
00:36:57
it was well What proportion of Pacific
00:36:59
have now been vaccinated or you know
00:37:02
what was the what was the ethnic
00:37:03
breakdown of the cases this week that I
00:37:07
would be able to pull that information
00:37:09
up and then that helps give people
00:37:11
confidence actually this person they may
00:37:14
not have all the answers that's okay but
00:37:16
they've got a lot of answers they've got
00:37:17
a lot of answers they know what they're
00:37:18
doing and so you're trying to build
00:37:20
trust and confidence it was the key
00:37:22
currency and in terms of building Trust
00:37:24
of course and this is again the
00:37:25
advantage I had over politicians there's
00:37:28
no mileage in a politician saying we've
00:37:30
changed our mind you know where it's
00:37:32
like I had to do that a number of times
00:37:33
think about the evidence around masks it
00:37:36
was a year in before wha changed their
00:37:38
advice and of course you get roasted the
00:37:40
media go well how come you've been
00:37:42
saying for the last year masks actually
00:37:44
the evidence has changed that was our
00:37:46
previous View now this is the advice and
00:37:49
again people are pretty Discerning and
00:37:51
of course the biggest one to do is when
00:37:52
things don't go right and you stand up
00:37:55
there and put your hand up and say we
00:37:57
could or should have done better
00:37:58
here's what we're going to do about it
00:38:00
and when we were sort of having a chat
00:38:02
beforehand you know I talk about the
00:38:04
media's favorite F-bomb failure you look
00:38:08
at their headlines they've got a
00:38:09
favorite c-bomb as well crisis
00:38:11
so everything that doesn't go perfectly
00:38:13
is a failure they overuse the word but I
00:38:16
did I did start to respond to them by
00:38:18
saying it's not a failure if things
00:38:20
don't go right it's a failure if we
00:38:22
don't review and learn and improve and
00:38:27
you know in that sort of situation where
00:38:28
you don't know what's going to happen
00:38:29
the last thing is you need is for your
00:38:31
people to stop
00:38:32
pushing the pushing the boundaries yeah
00:38:35
and because of the fear of failure so it
00:38:37
was really important that when things
00:38:39
didn't go right I fronted up
00:38:40
never through any one of my people under
00:38:42
the bus but said no I'm responsible this
00:38:45
is what we're doing about it because the
00:38:47
the last thing you needed was for them
00:38:48
to stop taking risks as it were because
00:38:50
because we had to make decisions so
00:38:52
quickly yeah now what was the cricket
00:38:55
thing you were talking about before you
00:38:56
said you're going to travel for Ghana oh
00:38:57
well I got an invitation from New
00:38:59
Zealand Cricket very kind to them to go
00:39:01
and watch the the black caps versus
00:39:03
Australia it was one of the 2020 games
00:39:05
actually the black caps had a great win
00:39:07
over Australia at the stadium
00:39:10
um and uh he had a lovely invitation
00:39:12
afterwards down to the dressing room and
00:39:14
uh great chat with Kane Williamson what
00:39:16
a fantastic guy oh and that whole team I
00:39:19
mean the culture you could just feel it
00:39:20
in the in the room got some photos you'd
00:39:22
be mad not to accept the invite well he
00:39:24
get he he got me he gave me one of his
00:39:26
jerseys that you know with signatures on
00:39:28
it but here's the thing as a public
00:39:30
servant uh you decl you get given a lot
00:39:32
of things and we got a lot through you
00:39:34
know I got boxes of wine would arrive
00:39:36
through the painting and big you know
00:39:38
trays of muffins and all sorts of things
00:39:40
and you declare it and most of it I'd
00:39:42
give away to the staff and the odd thing
00:39:43
when I left I was able to take with me
00:39:45
but the point was I was not supposed to
00:39:48
have accepted the the hospitality who
00:39:51
who snatched yeah well well partly it
00:39:53
was because at that time they they were
00:39:56
planning for a tour overseas and the
00:39:58
vaccine was just become becoming
00:40:00
available and there was a suggestion
00:40:02
that my invitation to the match was
00:40:04
helping uh bump them up yeah right which
00:40:08
wasn't the case but you know it's all
00:40:10
about perception and it's really
00:40:12
important that as a public servant you
00:40:14
just seen as being you know Integrity is
00:40:16
so important in terms of public trust
00:40:17
yeah you're you're I mean you're an
00:40:19
incredibly intelligent guy were you mad
00:40:20
at yourself after that because you
00:40:21
thought [ __ ] I should have seen this
00:40:23
potential loophole well uh yeah and you
00:40:26
know but then you look at the photo
00:40:27
viewing Kane and you're like well that's
00:40:28
still pretty well I mean interesting the
00:40:30
public response was very much on the
00:40:32
side look if he wants to go to a bloody
00:40:33
crooked game he should be able to go to
00:40:34
a quick game
00:40:36
um but you know it is an important thing
00:40:38
and you know
00:40:40
I guess you know I kicked myself a bit
00:40:42
because I'm incredibly meticulous about
00:40:43
that because because is it chief
00:40:45
executive you declare even the
00:40:47
invitations you get that you don't take
00:40:48
up it's all out it's all public your
00:40:51
salary every expense
00:40:53
is is public information and that's all
00:40:56
about transparency and about maintaining
00:40:58
the Integrity of the public service so
00:41:00
anyway I did my Penance uh made a big
00:41:03
donation to um uh might have been
00:41:05
Wellington City Mission to you know to
00:41:07
that would have been the price of the
00:41:09
tickets and uh these things uh you know
00:41:12
move through pretty quickly you still
00:41:14
got the memories of the game as well
00:41:15
that's right so so during this whole um
00:41:17
the one o'clock briefing thing like what
00:41:19
an average day for you look like you
00:41:21
mentioned before that you'd wake up in a
00:41:22
in a wake up at 3am in the morning and
00:41:24
start thinking it through was there just
00:41:26
a lot of reading involved what did a day
00:41:28
look like so 3am you wake up well that
00:41:31
was the early days I did seal into a
00:41:33
slightly better pattern but you say they
00:41:35
were they were two sorts of days it was
00:41:37
the day when I was once a week I'd do
00:41:39
the morning media round we shared that
00:41:40
you know the Prime Minister uh Chris
00:41:43
Hipkins I do one day Grant Robertson
00:41:45
Friday was his day in the morning media
00:41:48
around
00:41:48
um you know it was probably seven or
00:41:50
eight bang bang bang starting with Mike
00:41:52
hosking at five to seven you've got to
00:41:53
be awake for that
00:41:55
um you know our radio NZ it'd be um a
00:41:59
couple of TV things that YouTube two or
00:42:01
three other
00:42:03
radio stations that wanted to have a
00:42:05
chat in maybe maybe a couple of papers
00:42:07
so you know we'd do an hour and a half
00:42:08
just banging through those now those
00:42:10
mornings I'd be awake at three and be
00:42:12
it'll be start to just preparing in your
00:42:14
mind and and focusing and kind of
00:42:16
thinking okay have I got this like when
00:42:19
you're doing um uh ZB with Mike Hoskin
00:42:22
you're not given a
00:42:23
you know like a like a gauge in advance
00:42:25
about what he's going to ask well that's
00:42:27
where you've got you know if say you
00:42:29
know of course some people recognize
00:42:30
this I was not a one-man band Fantastic
00:42:33
Team behind me and my the media guys uh
00:42:36
well I call them guys you know men and
00:42:38
women were just fantastic they'd been at
00:42:40
work at six going through all of what
00:42:41
was coming through and the stories what
00:42:43
Mike was talking about that morning you
00:42:46
know what everyone was covering so then
00:42:48
we'd sit down before the first one and
00:42:50
we'd do 10 minutes that brief me and say
00:42:51
here are the issues by the way this came
00:42:53
up overnight or have you seen the story
00:42:55
from the UK X so so I'd be briefed ahead
00:42:58
of those but yeah other you know part of
00:43:00
it's also and you know Mike was great
00:43:03
because I sort of talk about you know
00:43:05
people oh how do you put up with it but
00:43:06
you know I'd bring it you'd call in and
00:43:08
of course it was a pre-record
00:43:10
um about 10 minutes before and he'd say
00:43:12
g'day mate how's it going okay let's get
00:43:13
into this and we'd do our thing and he'd
00:43:15
do a shock joke kind of questions and
00:43:17
I'd you know play him a straight bet and
00:43:19
then at the end it'd say thanks mate
00:43:20
good as ever and off we go now the last
00:43:23
of you he some people a lot of people
00:43:26
have hear this because he's very popular
00:43:28
I mean he's huge and he's very very good
00:43:30
at his job and he said to me so actually
00:43:33
we've had you know a few interactions so
00:43:35
how would you rate these discussions out
00:43:37
of 10 what would you give them I said
00:43:38
I'm and I'd say I'd give them a seven to
00:43:40
eight you're trying to do your job as
00:43:42
well as you can and I'm trying to do
00:43:43
mine and I turned it back to him I said
00:43:45
what about you and he said oh well I
00:43:48
don't rate your performance very highly
00:43:49
no surprise I didn't lose any sleep over
00:43:52
there he said there's one thing I will
00:43:54
say as you always turned up and you know
00:43:56
that's the thing isn't it sometimes I
00:43:58
knew you know I was going to get asked
00:44:00
when are you going to resign because
00:44:01
something had not gone right or and I'd
00:44:03
get a roasting or you you know you
00:44:05
expect that that here's the thing I was
00:44:07
turned up and I never I don't think I
00:44:10
ever turned any interviews down though
00:44:11
sometimes it might have just not you
00:44:13
know might have been a timing Clash
00:44:14
because part of my responsibility was to
00:44:16
just be available yeah the stand up on a
00:44:19
typical stand-up day 10 o'clock in the
00:44:21
morning almost to I could sit my watch
00:44:23
bite my cortisol levels to start to go
00:44:25
up classic response you know
00:44:28
um no appetite but sweaty heart rate
00:44:30
goes up just starting to mentally
00:44:32
prepare for keep repair I do two hours
00:44:34
prep with my team going through all the
00:44:36
data going through what you know lines
00:44:39
we'd be working with the prime
00:44:40
minister's office and then I'd race down
00:44:42
the road I'm a pretty fast Walker raced
00:44:45
down the road to the PM's office we'd
00:44:47
spend an hour going through what we're
00:44:49
going to say finalizing it all making
00:44:51
sure we had the latest data getting
00:44:54
really clear about our messages and then
00:44:56
down and I talk about you know we go
00:44:58
down on the lift together to the ground
00:45:00
for the Beehive and walk into the
00:45:01
theater and it felt like walking into
00:45:03
the Coliseum you know not the Coliseum
00:45:06
now as a tourist attraction
00:45:07
was like a couple of thousand years yeah
00:45:10
yeah and and the intensity of it because
00:45:13
as you say you've got all those
00:45:15
reporters there and they won't get you
00:45:16
out you know they want to get you out
00:45:17
and personal protective equipment PPI
00:45:20
you know PPE was the classic one so Dr
00:45:24
Bloomfield are you saying that every
00:45:25
health professional in the country's got
00:45:26
the PPE they need well that's what we're
00:45:28
that's what we're absolutely aiming to
00:45:30
do well I've got a text here from
00:45:31
Maureen a nurse and Kai tire and she has
00:45:34
she they want these masks in it okay you
00:45:36
give us the information and we'll follow
00:45:38
that up so you know the big thing is and
00:45:41
this is the thing that people remember
00:45:43
because they get I had such lovely
00:45:45
letters and emails and people could
00:45:47
still come up to me every day on the
00:45:49
street the thing people remember about
00:45:51
the stand-ups it's the old leadership
00:45:53
adage people don't remember what you
00:45:55
said or did they remember how you made
00:45:57
them feel yeah 100 and the most
00:45:59
important thing that I did and of course
00:46:00
the Prime Minister was doing it was
00:46:02
being calm
00:46:03
to and it just gave people a sense of
00:46:05
assurance we've got this so whatever was
00:46:08
being thrown at me my job was to and
00:46:11
it's about that's you know leading self
00:46:14
you know don't let the I couldn't let
00:46:16
the media give any sense that they got
00:46:18
under my skin yeah I had some you never
00:46:20
rolled your arms three times you know
00:46:22
actually take every question for what it
00:46:25
is and people say to me how did you put
00:46:28
up with the
00:46:30
same question over and over and I would
00:46:32
say it's fine there was a gift because
00:46:35
that meant I could give the same answer
00:46:36
and reinforce my message you know so I
00:46:39
just treated that as a as a gift and uh
00:46:42
and you know and I said and by the way I
00:46:44
knew that I didn't need to get annoyed
00:46:45
because the rest of New Zealand was
00:46:46
doing it on my behalf you know yeah oh
00:46:48
100 starting at the TV yeah so um yeah
00:46:51
so what was it like um behind that first
00:46:53
of all like pre-pandemic what was your
00:46:55
relationship like as the Director
00:46:56
general of Health with the the Prime
00:46:57
Minister did you had anything to do with
00:46:59
her you saw her occasionally yeah I had
00:47:01
a little bit to do with her because of
00:47:04
three things that had already happened
00:47:06
while I was DG quite big things um well
00:47:10
the measles outbreak in Auckland but
00:47:11
first of all the first time I met her
00:47:13
was after the terrorist attack on the
00:47:15
mosques in Christchurch and I still
00:47:17
remember that vividly and because that
00:47:19
weekend we we had happened on the Friday
00:47:21
again because we're meeting at night
00:47:23
over the weekend we met as a group
00:47:26
because because the health response was
00:47:27
part of it you know that all the injured
00:47:29
people were in Christchurch Hospital uh
00:47:32
and uh so I you know I was involved in
00:47:35
all those briefings we met four or five
00:47:37
times on the Saturday and Sunday so
00:47:38
that's when I first got to know her and
00:47:40
other ministers then we had the measles
00:47:43
outbreak and you know that was a big
00:47:44
lesson for us because we were too slow
00:47:47
out of the blocks I commissioned a
00:47:49
review we took the findings really
00:47:51
seriously and actually in the end I got
00:47:54
quite involved in that including
00:47:55
fronting some of the media there and
00:47:57
then and and then later in the air you
00:47:59
know to cap it all off and December we
00:48:01
had forkari white Island another
00:48:03
disaster of course that required a
00:48:06
really significant Health System
00:48:07
response as well so you know we were off
00:48:10
the back of all those three things so I
00:48:12
did know here and I guess we had a bit
00:48:13
of a relationship there and um and a
00:48:16
degree of trust already yeah because
00:48:18
from from like my perspective in New
00:48:20
Zealand perspective all we saw was you
00:48:21
guys like washing your hands walking in
00:48:23
and up to the um up to the lecterns
00:48:26
um so what did does she call you Dr
00:48:28
Bloomfield or Ashley you call her
00:48:30
Jacinda or prime minister that's quite
00:48:32
funny because when I talked to groups of
00:48:34
kids sometimes um they'd say oh it's
00:48:37
just Cindy or BFF
00:48:38
you know because there was the
00:48:40
impression that they only saw you know
00:48:42
it was always the two of us like a unit
00:48:44
and and I know there were some kids that
00:48:46
thought we were married you know it's
00:48:48
it's quite funny isn't it uh no I look
00:48:50
her number in my phone it's changed now
00:48:53
about her number in my phone said pm and
00:48:57
even when she'd call me in the evening
00:48:58
I'd I'd never called her Jacinda the the
00:49:01
first time I did that was after she
00:49:03
stood down a few weeks ago and I texted
00:49:05
her and said for the first time you know
00:49:08
hi Jacinda and just sent her a message
00:49:10
just to of support just to see how she
00:49:13
was and she responded that actually oh
00:49:16
dear sir Ashley I've been wanting to say
00:49:18
that
00:49:19
um she would call me Ashley when it was
00:49:23
just the two of us but in front of
00:49:24
others you know in front of ministers
00:49:26
and so on she it would be to General so
00:49:28
she called you Ashley I suppose if she
00:49:30
if if she wanted you to call her Jacinda
00:49:32
she could say please call me Jacinda
00:49:34
yeah that's that that's something I bet
00:49:37
she didn't yeah and I wouldn't have and
00:49:39
you know this is the thing is you you
00:49:40
she's the Prime Minister it's the office
00:49:42
that you're you're sort of respecting
00:49:44
and acknowledging and so on so um yeah
00:49:47
sort of tell a little bit of an anecdote
00:49:49
about Winston Peters because he was in
00:49:50
the government of course when um when
00:49:53
the pandemic started uh for those first
00:49:55
couple of years and I I knew how he was
00:49:57
feeling about me and my advice because
00:49:59
if he was happy he would call me Ashley
00:50:01
so Ashley tell me this if he wasn't it
00:50:03
would be so Dr Bloomfield it was a it
00:50:07
was a really clear signal anyway helpful
00:50:09
that's funny
00:50:11
um
00:50:12
um no name is necessary but in terms of
00:50:14
the um the Press gallery or the
00:50:16
journalist did you come to greet anyone
00:50:17
in particular you see some of it no I
00:50:19
didn't No I um look you know again
00:50:23
the the they their job is to hold people
00:50:27
to account and if if new zealands are a
00:50:31
well-functioning democracy and it is it
00:50:33
needs a number of ingredients but one of
00:50:35
them is a is a good strong independent
00:50:38
media and they're doing their job well
00:50:40
if they're holding the public service
00:50:42
and the government to account I mean
00:50:43
it's not all their role but it's not bad
00:50:44
apart
00:50:46
um and on a couple of occasions
00:50:47
especially when they were coming under
00:50:48
Fire you know there were some some of
00:50:51
the journalists that people sort of took
00:50:53
a dislike to because they were tough
00:50:54
tovaro Brian's Andover and Jessica just
00:50:57
over then Jessica the question I
00:50:59
sometimes get when I'm doing my speaks
00:51:01
speeches is how do you decide between
00:51:03
who goes between time and Jessica but
00:51:05
you know um they were doing their job
00:51:08
and I can tell you this especially in
00:51:11
those that first year after we'd done a
00:51:13
stand-up when we're in a lockdown and I
00:51:15
was walking out
00:51:16
most days one or other in journalists as
00:51:19
I was walking out would say thanks to
00:51:20
your team for their hard work you know
00:51:23
so they're playing their role I got
00:51:25
invited to the Press Gallery parties and
00:51:27
you know that's a nice opportunity just
00:51:29
to connect and I you know I've done a
00:51:31
few interviews recently I just did a
00:51:33
little bit of media around the whole
00:51:34
political neutrality thing
00:51:36
I I I just I don't have any residual
00:51:39
issues I think we we've got some really
00:51:41
good journalists in New Zealand it's a
00:51:43
tough environment yeah my goodness me uh
00:51:46
being in the media but uh they if the if
00:51:49
the response in New Zealand overall was
00:51:51
a really good one the media played an
00:51:53
important role there because of the them
00:51:55
fulfilling role of keeping and holding
00:51:57
us to account yeah although if we want
00:51:59
to go back to the qriket analogy there
00:52:00
were a lot of wides being bold like uh
00:52:03
asking you questions about drinking
00:52:04
bleach or
00:52:06
um there's a question about um a
00:52:08
hospital visitor having sex with a
00:52:10
covert positive patient yeah yeah there
00:52:13
are a few things
00:52:15
that you know might create a good front
00:52:17
page or a good line for a subby but um
00:52:20
yeah you know you just gotta again keep
00:52:22
playing the straight band of course if
00:52:23
it's a white you just um don't swing yes
00:52:27
um there's an article I read in the
00:52:28
guardian
00:52:30
um or I've got a passage of it here uh
00:52:32
Dune has occasionally referenced
00:52:33
Bloomfield poking fun at her as she
00:52:35
tackled her own epidemiological learning
00:52:38
curve and said I'll keep the details of
00:52:40
a sporadic I'll keep the details of his
00:52:43
sporadic mockery of me to myself yeah
00:52:45
anything that Springs to mind it sounds
00:52:48
like you're taking the piss out of prime
00:52:49
minister
00:52:50
um well
00:52:52
um yeah that doesn't sound quite so good
00:52:53
does it happen well look I will say this
00:52:56
is uh
00:52:58
just Senator James got a fantastic sense
00:53:00
of humor and actually of course he
00:53:02
didn't see it up there when it from me
00:53:04
either but I use a lot of humor in my in
00:53:06
my day with my team it's
00:53:08
um it's one of my uh my wife speaking to
00:53:11
character strength she's done it on our
00:53:13
family it's one of my character
00:53:14
strengths but of course when you're
00:53:16
fronting a pandemic you don't do that
00:53:18
but yes we would have quite a bit of
00:53:20
banter and one of the things that I
00:53:21
would one of the things the Prime
00:53:23
Minister has referred to and I think in
00:53:25
whatever interviews was at one point um
00:53:27
we had a couple of it was when there was
00:53:29
just a few cases there was and there
00:53:32
were two people and mastered and we were
00:53:33
trying to track down and um we're trying
00:53:36
to find out some information and the
00:53:38
Prime Minister was asking question after
00:53:40
question in the end I said well prime
00:53:42
minister would you like us to give you
00:53:43
your cell phone numbers and she said yes
00:53:45
before she and then she sort of says
00:53:47
before I realized he was pulling my leg
00:53:49
you know yeah but uh so yeah we did have
00:53:52
I would say that was part of just you
00:53:54
know of course humor is a way you deal
00:53:56
with the pressure and the stress but um
00:53:58
it it didn't help us I guess just
00:54:00
develop a sort of relationship of trust
00:54:03
we needed you know she needed to know
00:54:05
that when we were doing the the
00:54:06
stand-ups that I was going to be
00:54:08
reliable and and uh if she threw things
00:54:11
to me I was going to be able to pick
00:54:13
them up and and vice versa it was a
00:54:14
political issue that I was being asked
00:54:16
about she would step in there so I guess
00:54:18
you know often the way we connect with
00:54:19
people even if it is a a work
00:54:22
relationship and a purely sort of uh
00:54:24
formal relationship is through you know
00:54:26
kind of knowing each other about his
00:54:29
people and and I guess on that human
00:54:31
level we certainly enjoyed a little bit
00:54:32
of banter yeah yeah and you you guys are
00:54:34
catching up um privately yeah we're
00:54:36
going to have a cup of tea at some point
00:54:38
just uh you know um the the Prime
00:54:41
Minister finishes up uh well sorry
00:54:42
Jacinda radoon finishes in Parliament in
00:54:44
a couple weeks time that's it
00:54:46
um and so you know we we uh just thought
00:54:48
now we're both out the other side we
00:54:50
have cup of tea and I'm interested if
00:54:52
you know just to kind of see how she is
00:54:54
really yeah she's got you know Nevis
00:54:56
starting school fairly soon I know she
00:54:59
she and she's talked about that she's so
00:55:01
looking forward to just been how to
00:55:02
spend more time with Neve be there for
00:55:04
her when she starts school and of course
00:55:06
I'm sure spend much more time with Clark
00:55:07
as well yeah he'll appreciate that I
00:55:09
mean um yeah it's a crazy thing that
00:55:12
you've both been through that links you
00:55:14
both together for life like I've had um
00:55:15
uh Jimmy nisham on an early episode of
00:55:18
my podcast and he talked about his
00:55:19
relationship with Martin guptill into
00:55:21
some Innings they've been through
00:55:22
together that just links them to to for
00:55:24
life in a bond that no one else can
00:55:26
imagine and it's the same for you and
00:55:27
Jacinda are doing did you copy any other
00:55:29
I I feel like as far as um leaders go
00:55:32
like she copped it pretty bad and in
00:55:34
terms of like partners of leaders I feel
00:55:36
like Clark's had it worse than almost
00:55:37
anyone in memorable history you know
00:55:39
there's just been so many absurd rumors
00:55:41
what about you how did you fear did you
00:55:44
have you copped any sort of yeah I
00:55:45
copped a bit uh and you know I was aware
00:55:48
of it but I I
00:55:50
I never felt unsafe
00:55:53
I got advice around my security and if
00:55:55
and there are some there are some people
00:55:57
out there and you think of some of the
00:55:59
things that were being said around the
00:56:00
protests in Parliament about hanging
00:56:02
people and I was on that list about
00:56:05
bottle doing you know bodily harm and
00:56:07
and so on to people but let's make let's
00:56:10
put this on the table and I've I've
00:56:11
talked about it public before it is
00:56:13
extremely gendered and it is is deeply
00:56:17
misogynistic so you know if you're a
00:56:19
female you know so not just um just
00:56:22
under a dune but people like Susie Wiles
00:56:24
and others who are commentating was
00:56:26
objected to just this absolutely and
00:56:29
there's no other word for it vile and
00:56:31
very very you know deeply unpleasant
00:56:34
kind of abuse and the and and there's no
00:56:37
doubt in my mind that because the prime
00:56:38
minister at the time was female that
00:56:41
made it you know just layered the
00:56:43
unpleasantness on and you know including
00:56:48
including when she was out and about
00:56:50
with with you know Neve with her people
00:56:52
just shouting actually disgusting stuff
00:56:55
at it and
00:56:56
um
00:56:57
it's not okay it's just not okay I was
00:57:01
never subjected to any of that and I
00:57:03
know that a big reason for that even
00:57:05
though I was you know clear I wasn't the
00:57:06
Prime Minister but I was the architect
00:57:09
of a lot of the advice around things
00:57:10
that upset people like mandates and um
00:57:14
and so on and the vaccination program uh
00:57:17
that you know I never was subjected to
00:57:19
that sort of vitriol which she
00:57:21
unfortunately was yeah have you had
00:57:24
anything in public I you sort of people
00:57:26
have had on the show on the podcast that
00:57:27
are polarizing um they generally say any
00:57:30
mean stuff about them is online and
00:57:32
face-to-face it's nothing but positivity
00:57:35
absolutely my experience yeah you know
00:57:37
this is interesting because I'm sure
00:57:39
there are some of those people see me
00:57:41
and they either don't have the courage
00:57:43
or you know you know I'm thankful they
00:57:45
don't come and say anything every day
00:57:47
literally every day people come up to me
00:57:49
from all walks of life I've had many
00:57:52
many thousands and only one only one of
00:57:55
them has said something kind of well I
00:57:56
hope you have a horrible day
00:57:57
[Laughter]
00:58:01
you know if that's the worst of it but
00:58:04
literally I still get people hangover
00:58:06
set something last night we were saying
00:58:08
I was saying earlier you know at the
00:58:09
University here launch of these this
00:58:11
wonderful Coupe Scholars that the 18
00:58:14
amazing young people for the year and
00:58:15
the parents of one of them came up to me
00:58:17
oh you know we're just huge fans of what
00:58:20
you and your team did and you know the
00:58:23
fellowship my hand and the woman said
00:58:25
can I just give you a hug which I was
00:58:27
really happy about because I I you know
00:58:28
I love connecting like that and that's
00:58:31
just a lovely thing and it was the
00:58:32
letters and the cards and the messages
00:58:34
that I got every day usually to me and
00:58:38
my team that just kept us going you know
00:58:41
classic one this envelope arrived it
00:58:44
said on the front Dr Bloomfield
00:58:45
Wellington I think that was the address
00:58:48
found its way to me 92 year old woman
00:58:51
from invercargill said in that beautiful
00:58:53
you know how old people write slightly
00:58:55
spider inviting yeah beautiful card I've
00:58:58
never never sent a card or anything like
00:59:00
this before but I just have to thank you
00:59:02
and your team for looking after us I
00:59:04
know I'm alive today because of what you
00:59:06
did for us and you know that's gold and
00:59:08
I could every every week I'd have an
00:59:10
online
00:59:10
um kind of all staff and especially when
00:59:13
people couldn't come into the office and
00:59:14
I'd just be able to read through some of
00:59:16
these things and that just kept people
00:59:18
going give you the motivation yeah yeah
00:59:21
um there was um probably the biggest
00:59:23
viral moment I think through that whole
00:59:24
period is when you were doing a stand-up
00:59:25
with um Chris Atkins as a minister of
00:59:27
Health not prime minister
00:59:28
um and he he had a slip of the tongue
00:59:30
and he said spread your legs
00:59:33
um and what he was meaning to say
00:59:34
stretchy legs correct right and then um
00:59:37
you can be seen smirking and then um
00:59:39
like you raise your eyebrows to someone
00:59:42
in the wings who what was happening
00:59:44
there behind the scenes someone's
00:59:46
laughing and well they make eye contact
00:59:48
with you I wasn't doing it at anybody I
00:59:50
I was just standing here thinking you
00:59:53
know instead of I couldn't help myself
00:59:55
this little smile I thought did he
00:59:57
really say that and then I could see I
00:59:59
think he can he kept his composure
01:00:02
I just did this to the library so he
01:00:04
hassles me about it says I'd be a
01:00:06
useless poke apart I can't keep a poker
01:00:09
face well what was happening was the
01:00:11
reporters who all had masks on it was at
01:00:13
that time they all had tears running
01:00:15
down their faces they were laughing so
01:00:17
hard and of course no one else could see
01:00:19
this and then at the end when we
01:00:21
finished the room just absolutely
01:00:22
erupted
01:00:24
um so you know uh it was it was quite a
01:00:26
moment I just had to sort of try and get
01:00:28
through the rest of it without kind of
01:00:30
cracking up I just couldn't do that but
01:00:32
anyway
01:00:33
um I sent uh now prime minister Chris
01:00:35
Hopkins changed his number to PM in my
01:00:37
right I sent him a text when when he got
01:00:39
got the role and he said a nice one he
01:00:42
he sent me a lovely text
01:00:44
um uh uh at the end of the year last
01:00:46
year and and when I got my New Year's
01:00:48
honor but I said oh well done you know
01:00:50
and great stuff and he and he sent this
01:00:52
text back saying yep um uh thanks very
01:00:55
much it was your eyebrows that got me
01:00:57
here so I said well they're available
01:00:59
anytime if you need them oh it was a
01:01:01
great moment
01:01:02
um another moment which I don't know if
01:01:04
you remember doing this because I'm sure
01:01:05
you do a lot of media and stuff but
01:01:06
there's um a segment done by um the
01:01:09
stuff website called Kia kids news oh
01:01:11
yes and um there was a thing I watched
01:01:14
yesterday some kid asking you about
01:01:15
farts and whether you can catch covert
01:01:17
through farts how do you how do you
01:01:19
answer something like that oh well it's
01:01:21
not right I mean those are the sort of
01:01:24
things I love doing and I should say
01:01:25
yeah
01:01:26
um I got a lot of big envelopes of
01:01:28
letters from classes of kids you know
01:01:30
their teachers would set them an
01:01:31
assignment through 2021 to write a
01:01:32
letter to Dr Bloomfield and got some
01:01:35
amazing there's a school and they have
01:01:36
plenty to send me they had been tasked
01:01:38
with inviting me to this school and
01:01:41
giving the reason why I should come so
01:01:42
it was kind of dear Dr Bloomfield if you
01:01:45
come to our school we can play bullrush
01:01:47
on the backfield and you know did look
01:01:49
to Bloomfield if you come I will buy you
01:01:50
a cup of coffee from the Celtics not
01:01:53
from the BP because their coffee's
01:01:54
rubbish so and then occasionally I'll do
01:01:58
zooms just with with classrooms of kids
01:01:59
and it would be just gorgeous so you
01:02:01
just got to take these questions as they
01:02:03
come you know kids are great aren't they
01:02:04
yeah oh they're fantastic it's a great
01:02:06
thing but I guess yeah I could say I'd
01:02:08
been used to having curveball questions
01:02:09
surround at me in the media stand-ups
01:02:11
not necessarily about farts but there
01:02:13
were some pretty unusual ones oh there
01:02:14
were like the drinking bleach one that I
01:02:16
mentioned before and questions about 5G
01:02:18
and that relation yeah
01:02:20
um you were you were very good at
01:02:21
batting them off though I think yeah I
01:02:22
think it's very successful
01:02:24
um again another thing that you went
01:02:26
viral for was um doing like a drum and
01:02:28
bass video that was for rhythm and Vines
01:02:31
um like let's make summer summer
01:02:32
Unstoppable I wanted to ask what is an
01:02:34
Unstoppable summer look like for you oh
01:02:37
well lots of reading lots of family time
01:02:40
lots of family time and you know we
01:02:42
we've had we had a lovely summer this
01:02:44
time we've got a little place down at
01:02:45
Nelson Lakes where we go down to and um
01:02:47
head that for a wee while and so it's
01:02:49
just time in the sun actually just
01:02:51
sitting on the beach with friends out on
01:02:53
the boat doing a bit of stuff nothing
01:02:55
flash
01:02:56
um getting out into the hills for some
01:02:58
for some walks and of course some biking
01:03:00
but you know we're just so lucky in this
01:03:03
country we've got so many lovely places
01:03:05
you can go to and beautiful beaches so
01:03:08
sun is is what it's all about really and
01:03:11
but I I really like it down at the lake
01:03:13
I love swimming in the fresh water it's
01:03:14
cold up there up at 600 meters above sea
01:03:17
level but that's great for the
01:03:18
endorphins though isn't it it's great
01:03:19
for the endorphins so you know we
01:03:22
um
01:03:23
and here's the thing you know we had a
01:03:25
couple of pretty amazing Summers here in
01:03:27
New Zealand in the middle of a pandemic
01:03:29
that no one else could enjoy you ask any
01:03:32
other no other country in the world was
01:03:33
doing these big events yeah crowd with
01:03:36
with hot crowds concerts and so on so we
01:03:39
had a lot more freedom through covert
01:03:42
even with even though we had the
01:03:43
lockdown periods and of course Auckland
01:03:45
had that really long lockdown in 2021 I
01:03:47
still usually apologize when I'm talking
01:03:49
to crowds up here but we had nowhere
01:03:52
near the the length or extent of
01:03:54
lockdowns that most other countries had
01:03:56
and they had the double whammy of
01:03:58
actually having their Health Systems
01:03:59
kind of over and and large numbers of
01:04:02
death so we enjoyed some good Summers
01:04:04
here of course what we've seen from this
01:04:06
last summer is Summer's going to be
01:04:08
different in the future and it may well
01:04:10
be for the north of the North Island
01:04:12
it's less of a summer and more of a wet
01:04:14
season
01:04:15
um and we're going to have to be really
01:04:18
thinking hard about how we how we're
01:04:20
ready for that and prepared for that
01:04:21
yeah
01:04:22
um there's a couple of other things I
01:04:24
wanted to ask you so um the Knighthood
01:04:26
thing becoming a sir yeah when do you
01:04:28
first hear about that and what's your
01:04:29
first reaction well uh I got this you
01:04:33
know it's not like the old days
01:04:33
apparently where a horse would ride up
01:04:35
to you somewhere and you know someone
01:04:37
would hand you this parchment yeah an
01:04:40
email arrived out of the blue from the
01:04:41
Department of prime minister and cabinet
01:04:42
and I opened it and I read it I thought
01:04:44
well what's this about you know I I had
01:04:47
to call my wife and I said let me come
01:04:48
have a look at this
01:04:50
just can you read this what's it saying
01:04:52
you know I really was quite taken aback
01:04:54
and uh we were sort of quite shocked and
01:04:58
of course
01:04:59
you do get a heads up and you're the
01:05:02
first heads up is to ask you if you uh
01:05:05
if this is offered or you know is
01:05:07
conferred on you would you accept it and
01:05:09
which I think is a reasonable question
01:05:10
to ask well we had quite a chat about it
01:05:12
and talked about it and I decided yes I
01:05:15
would
01:05:16
and again uh it's not not so much about
01:05:19
me but actually it is it's a lovely
01:05:22
public recognition and
01:05:25
um it's uh it's a wonderful honor really
01:05:27
uh and for me it's also it shows the
01:05:30
degree which that the whole effort was
01:05:34
appreciated yeah the effort of the
01:05:36
public service I was the face of and the
01:05:38
most visible kind of person and that
01:05:40
effort
01:05:41
because of my role but you know new
01:05:43
zealanders saw what the public service
01:05:46
does for them day in day out to look
01:05:48
after them and to try and make their you
01:05:49
know improved lives for new zealanders
01:05:51
all new zealanders and um so that was
01:05:54
sort of a part of my rationale at least
01:05:55
for being for have been replying saying
01:05:58
yes I will
01:05:59
accepted and then you know kind of
01:06:01
lovely then just before Christmas to get
01:06:03
a letter from from the governor general
01:06:05
who I know from we've known each other
01:06:07
because she she some of her work has
01:06:09
been in public health over the years and
01:06:11
she put a nice little handwritten note
01:06:13
at the bottom so yeah so your parents
01:06:16
passed before director general of Health
01:06:18
before coronavirus before the the
01:06:21
Knighthood what would they make of all
01:06:23
of us uh I think that'd be immensely
01:06:25
proud and um and as I said
01:06:28
I think about them every day and I and I
01:06:31
sort of feel them with me because
01:06:32
they're they're the most important
01:06:35
kind of influence on your life they've
01:06:37
shaped me who I am I'm lucky I've got
01:06:39
I'm close to my brother and sister
01:06:40
who've been so supportive and and and so
01:06:43
lovely and and my wife's family as well
01:06:45
and so yep my parents can't come to the
01:06:47
investiture which is in late may but my
01:06:49
wife's parents are coming down as my
01:06:50
kind of surrogate parents and I have
01:06:52
Libby and they're one of our children
01:06:54
who isn't overseas and um and my brother
01:06:57
and sister and partner so what does it
01:07:00
make living now did she become a lady or
01:07:01
a dog no she can but she decided pretty
01:07:03
quickly there is still this very
01:07:04
anachronistic opportunity to use the
01:07:06
courtesy title of ladies so she would be
01:07:08
lady Bloomberg she decided very quickly
01:07:10
that wasn't going to be her uh and you
01:07:13
know I know it sounds very Bridgeton
01:07:14
doesn't it it does sound original and
01:07:16
you know I don't I haven't even used I
01:07:18
haven't used this year anything yet you
01:07:20
know it's not something you're quite
01:07:22
different to the main Bunch around yeah
01:07:24
who now goes by the Facebook name sir
01:07:26
Peter Leach yeah Yeah well yeah it might
01:07:28
come along I don't know I don't own it
01:07:29
own it
01:07:30
um geez I've taken up so much of your
01:07:32
time have you got a little bit longer
01:07:33
one thing I do like to ask all my guests
01:07:35
about some mental health questions yeah
01:07:37
all right I'll just just take one
01:07:39
because they've got to get off and I've
01:07:40
got a coffee appointment yeah look at
01:07:43
it or take one okay
01:07:45
um
01:07:46
okay oh
01:07:49
um maybe I'll just make a comment about
01:07:51
resilience okay yes please yeah I was
01:07:53
gonna ask if you have a resilience plan
01:07:55
yeah I don't have a formal plan but I
01:07:57
had a huge lesson for me during covert
01:07:59
was for the first time in my life and in
01:08:01
my career which had had some pretty high
01:08:03
pressure moments I've had really good
01:08:04
physical mental well-being but I did
01:08:06
reach them I reached the point where I
01:08:08
needed to take some days off I was
01:08:11
um and and the real um insight for me
01:08:14
around resilience was
01:08:15
that I know resilient people and my
01:08:18
goodness they've got enormous capacity
01:08:20
to to do stuff but they don't just keep
01:08:23
going they don't burn out they know
01:08:25
their boundaries their physical and
01:08:27
mental emotional boundaries and they
01:08:29
take active steps to stay within them
01:08:31
yeah and so they are very in tune with
01:08:34
what their body's telling them and so
01:08:36
that's the key to results resilience is
01:08:38
listening to your body being active and
01:08:40
about being physically fit looking after
01:08:42
your mental well-being whether it's
01:08:44
through you know meditation mindfulness
01:08:46
or whatever it is making sure you've got
01:08:47
time to do the things you enjoy doing
01:08:49
spending time with people who you who
01:08:52
you connect with and who are the ones
01:08:53
that you know your foot whether it's
01:08:55
your whanau or your close friends that
01:08:56
you know just nurture your soul and and
01:08:59
that's that's the fundamental thing
01:09:00
about resilience it's not about keeping
01:09:02
going regardless yeah I I feel like
01:09:05
everyone needs to come up with their own
01:09:06
resilience plan because what may work
01:09:07
for you won't necessarily but are there
01:09:10
any absolute must-haves for you every
01:09:11
day like are you a cold shower guy
01:09:14
of a three-part resilience strategy it's
01:09:17
it's opening the curtain and checking
01:09:19
the sun's come up and if the sun's come
01:09:21
up the world hasn't ended overnight and
01:09:23
it's gonna be a good day coffee is a
01:09:25
good thing in coffee drinkers now there
01:09:27
but also for me it was especially on
01:09:29
those tough days when I'd get up in the
01:09:31
morning and think I'm not sure I can do
01:09:32
this you know
01:09:33
yeah
01:09:34
um I've my Tank's empty you know
01:09:36
was just getting into work and starting
01:09:38
to interact with people and and the
01:09:41
energy and the commitment and the
01:09:44
goodness that you get from that and then
01:09:46
you know I always say you're in the
01:09:47
right job if you've got more energy at
01:09:49
the end of the day than when you started
01:09:50
with it
01:09:51
and so that that for me was the thing
01:09:54
was just spending time with people with
01:09:55
great people yeah and were you good at
01:09:57
recognizing that yourself or does it
01:09:59
take Libby or someone close in your team
01:10:00
to go Ashley well
01:10:02
you're not where you should be I I I
01:10:04
learned I I guess and I guess I've
01:10:07
learned over the year years to kind of
01:10:09
recognize what my body's
01:10:10
yeah yeah all right hey thank you so
01:10:12
much for coming over today really
01:10:14
appreciate everything you've done for
01:10:15
the country I appreciate you being on
01:10:16
the podcast and um all the best for the
01:10:19
future whatever that may bring sir
01:10:20
Ashley Bloomfield thanks very much it's
01:10:23
been a pleasure
01:10:25
[Music]
01:10:39
thank you
