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hello and welcome to Runners only with
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dom Harvey on this episode Joseph
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Sullivan yeah I thought I was good at
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talking about it but looking back I
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probably wasn't and I probably shut down
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like I remember my parents would call
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and be like hey you don't know my aasm
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old and you're just kind of fling it off
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but I think the older I've got and The
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more I've kind of learned from where I
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was I'm a lot better at talking about
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things and especially with this job in
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the fire service
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some of the [ __ ] we see now is pretty
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um hard to deal with
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you know being able to open up and talk
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to people
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yeah it's hugely important Joseph
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Sullivan truly is a great New Zealander
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he's a hero but I feel like he's kind of
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one of those under the radar Heroes
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where the name might ring a bell but you
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can't quite recall where you know it
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from and that is just the way this
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unassuming firefighter and father from
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Bayer plenty likes it Joseph won a
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Olympic gold medal in 2012 for rowing he
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retired prematurely in 2014 after being
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screwed over by running New Zealand
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something which broke him and took him a
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while to recover from we get into them
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the podcast since then he's found a new
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purpose in the New Zealand fire service
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he got married he's had two kids and he
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managed to train as a grinder for Team
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New Zealand and won the America's Cup
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twice it was such an honor to sit down
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with Joseph at the coward owl fire
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station to cover all aspects of his
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remarkable life so far the very high
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highs and the very deep lows I hope you
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guys love this conversation with Joseph
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Sullivan
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hey hey this is Runners only with damn
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Hobby
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steady anyway you coming just wanna
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connect for everyone who loves running
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this is Runners only let's get it
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started this is Runners only with yeah
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I'm Harvey fast paced slow and steady
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anyway you coming just wanna connect for
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everyone who loves running hey Runners
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only with dom Harvey
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Runners only with dom Harvey and Joseph
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Sullivan g'day mate how you doing doing
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very well thank you so we are we're in
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one of the offices at the cowardell fire
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station yep yep that's the one and this
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is work this is home yeah a different
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kind of situation being able to do a
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podcast at work but it's it's cool yeah
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now your boss warned me on the way in
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that if there's a call out or some sort
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of like siren or emergency that um we're
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gonna have to pause this actually the
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toes will go down and I'll just shoot
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off and jump in the track and we'll be
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gone but what is the what's the
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likelihood of that can you go for weeks
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without a call out or is it not yeah we
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can yeah literally we can go weeks or a
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month without a call out but then some
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days we have three or four and and a set
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we could have up to ten so yeah it's a
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varying kind of situation depending on
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weather and conditions and and what
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people are doing out in the public it's
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quite a humbling job isn't it it's a
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very rewarding job but I'm I'm guessing
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here no one gives a flying [ __ ] about
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about what you did 10 years ago what you
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did two years ago you know all these
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incredible achievements you have you're
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just one of the team here yeah just
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follow the boys
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um which is cool is probably what I
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prefer it's
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kind of humbling being around these kind
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of guys everyone's been in different
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situations and and had some hard times
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in their lives and some good times in
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their life so but yeah it's just a good
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bunch of of people uh working hard for
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the same goal of kind of particularly in
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the community the best we can yeah it's
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awesome that's um part of the reason I
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wanted to get you on the podcast I feel
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like you don't necessarily get the the
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Rick the name recognition or the
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recognition that you deserve like I had
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a phone call from a friend on the drive
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here and I said she said where are you
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after I said I'm going to carve it out
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to um record a podcast with Joseph
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Sullivan and she said oh the name rings
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a bell and I'm like this guy want a gold
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medal in 2012 one of the most incredible
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sporting moments ever he's won two
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America's Cup but it's just yeah it
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feels like it's one of those things like
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if you if you if you're around long
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enough and you win enough gold medals
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people remember you like the Valerie
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Adams yeah Lisa Carrington's Eric Murray
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whatever but you win one gold medal and
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then I suppose it's like a like a flash
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for a couple of months and then uh you
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sort of disappear into Oblivion a little
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bit is that a fair thing to say yeah
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yeah it kind of depends
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I guess that the London Olympics Olympic
00:04:16
with so many of us there
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same time which kind of I'm minimizing
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it minimizes the effect of what you've
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done but at the same time
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it's not anything I've ever chased being
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famous or being recognized or anything
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like that I almost recommend well I
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almost enjoy the fact that people don't
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know who I am when I walk down the
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street I have a bit more privacy and
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um can kind of just enjoy what I've
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achieved and yeah get on with life yeah
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so you want a gold medal in um 2012 at
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the the London Games and that was with
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um Nathan Cohen yep yeah so what was the
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sport what was the other uh the men's
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double skills in rowing it was it was um
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called the sporting moment of the decade
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because like you guys weren't sort of
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even in the middle hunt I watched on
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YouTube just the other day I forgot how
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good this was like you guys were so far
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behind in the last 500 meters you just
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smoked everybody was that sort of a
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strategy of you guys we always have come
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from behind Duo it's it's never been a
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strategy to be there far behind
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um it's never ideal but I guess for us
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we we can't do it any other way we
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Nathan's really strong throughout the
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middle of the race and I'm seem to be
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strong at the start of the Finish
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and we kind of blend our kind of
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strengths into one and I think in the
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races like that we have been known for
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our Sprints at the finish so everyone
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kind of knew we were capable of that and
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I think they were doing their best to
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create that buffer between them and us
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coming into their last 500 so yeah they
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were doing their best to get as far away
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from us as possible and we're doing our
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best just to hold on giving ourselves
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the opportunity to to Sprint right at
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the end and yeah it was a weird race
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because we were working our asses off
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the whole time Nathan was telling me
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we're right up in the in the mix of it
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and we weren't oh he's quite good at
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painting a good picture to keep me
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motivated is this during the race yeah I
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can't see anything so I'm I'm literally
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at the back of the boat looking
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backwards so I can't see anyone
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um Nathan gets to to have a look around
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and make all the calls and and kind of
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um deal with the positions and stuff
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like that and yeah so he's looking
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around knowing that we're behind and
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telling me positive things to keep me
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really motivated and we're into it and
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yeah we kind of get into that last 500
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and that's kind of where we both just
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dig in and get it give it everything we
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can and I remember going into the last
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kind of 200 meters
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thinking holy [ __ ] we're we're in the
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mix and I was thinking holy holy crap
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we're going to get a bronze medal how
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cool was this and of course the line and
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I was pretty stoked I was like holy [ __ ]
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we're just gonna bronze medal and then
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it wasn't until we looked up at the big
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screen and like holy [ __ ] we've actually
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we actually won so that did Nathan know
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straight he must have known all along
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that you want a gold uh I think so
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continue right because he could see what
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was kind of happening but are you guys
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both so fact to speak at that point so
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pretty much in their last 500 like
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Visions are disappearing and kind of
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you're just not aware of what's around
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you and you're so focused on just trying
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to get their boat across the line I
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didn't really uh take him they would
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actually passed anyone you you look
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completely spent you look happy as well
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did you think that you were like a third
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maybe yeah so I was pretty stoked with
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third I mean you can actually see the
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moment onto like on the on the video
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when we look up at the screen we look
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left and then we're like holy [ __ ] we've
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just won how good oh my god look I've
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got goosebumps with you retelling that
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story you can't have been surprised that
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because you guys won the world Champs in
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2010
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um the wheelchairs in 2011. so you must
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have been going in as the team to be
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like if you looked at our history we're
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with the team debate but our lead them
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to the Olympics was pretty terrible we
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had a really bad run
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um in the World Cups uh the two previous
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World Cups before going to the Olympics
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I think we got maybe second to last and
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the first one cup and then how fat how
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far before the Olympics are we talking
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like a couple of months or something six
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weeks okay oh okay yeah
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um what was happening when you just saw
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four more I think we'd gone through such
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a massive training block back in New
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Zealand and we knew we'd put ourselves
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in the hole and we would we were
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prepared for it we thought we were
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mentally
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um
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and we were just doing everything we
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could to get ourselves in a good
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position
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we did a summer winter series here in
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New Zealand before we left and the
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selectors took us aside and absolutely
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just ripped us to Pieces saying we're
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we're not where we should be we're crap
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we shouldn't have been going like what
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are we doing and for some reason
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although we were we were just knackered
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from training and then
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you think you're mentally prepared but
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then someone in that position to come
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and say that to us just before we go
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overseas for our biggest event
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um really put a spinner in the works
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mentally for us and we were kind of I
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don't I don't know if we panic but we
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started trying to figure out like what
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was going wrong and we started looking
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in all the wrong places and we started
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changing our settings and we swapped
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seats in the boat for a little bit and
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like we just did stupid [ __ ] that we
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should have never done and we should
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have just relied on what we'd already
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been doing and training and just
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remembered we're all doing it for the
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right reason yeah yeah we kind of threw
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all that stuff at ourselves and it kind
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of just
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um blow us out a bit mentally and then
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we were almost fighting each other not
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like physically fighting or mentally
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fighting or abusive but now we were both
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trying to work so hard that we'd stop
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gelling as a team and instead of sort of
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blaming each other almost for yeah but
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you're almost blaming each other without
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saying it which is worse it's getting
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more internal and it just comes from a
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place of frustration though right yeah
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pure frustration and it didn't even need
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to happen though that was the thing like
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it was purely from someone commenting
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um when we're at our lowest like
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physically just because we've been
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training so hard to throw that at us and
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then all of a sudden we start thinking
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about stuff that it's not even an issue
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and it took us so long
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um just to get back on form and realize
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nothing was actually wrong and we we had
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all the potential we needed to to do
00:10:12
what we had to this was like 10 11 years
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ago that this happened it feels like
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it'd be unacceptable now in the
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environment we're living in and the
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awareness that we've got about mental
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health and high performance sport yeah
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[ __ ] you guys must have been you look
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back now and you're pissed off with it
00:10:25
does it make you angry um
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I don't know it's one of those things it
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kind of
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although it should at the time and it
00:10:32
was really frustrating and all that kind
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of stuff was happening
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the result we got once we started
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figuring out just going back to basics
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was so much more impressive and it kind
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of just got us fired up again
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um like with all that [ __ ] going wrong
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and
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um
00:10:50
us not really gelling together things
00:10:52
were going really bad we were training
00:10:54
in Belgium and it rained for like six
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probably six weeks straight we'd be
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biking to training in the rain rowing in
00:11:00
the rain coming back in the rain and it
00:11:02
was just depressing and
00:11:05
um things our coach was saying to us
00:11:07
weren't helping either like we were
00:11:09
almost getting really pissed off with
00:11:11
each other each other for things that
00:11:13
didn't exist and one day me and Nathan
00:11:16
training solidly and living in the same
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room and biking to training together for
00:11:21
a solid week and we didn't actually talk
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to each other once like we were we were
00:11:25
there bad at that point like we didn't
00:11:28
hate each other we were just frustrated
00:11:29
and we didn't know what to do but we
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were there with each other for 24 hours
00:11:33
a day the year must have been so thick
00:11:35
though yeah it was I had it like how do
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you not end up coming to blows and
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having a punch up in that sort of
00:11:40
environment I don't know oh is this
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still like a deep-seated love there
00:11:42
between you you think I heard of his
00:11:44
love but it was more I guess there's
00:11:46
more respect like we both knew the goal
00:11:48
we wanted and we both knew we were
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working as hard as we possibly could to
00:11:52
achieve that goal and like as frustrated
00:11:55
as you can get at each other you both
00:11:57
know you're in it for the same thing so
00:11:58
their respect and and all that was still
00:12:01
there and it wasn't until one day we
00:12:03
kind of just came to our heads and it
00:12:05
wasn't even
00:12:06
angry it was just like frustration and
00:12:09
we decided what the hell are we doing
00:12:11
we're just going to go back to basics
00:12:13
and sort it out and then we had another
00:12:15
chat we're like we knew we need to get
00:12:16
out of here so
00:12:18
um me Nathan rented a car we were going
00:12:20
to take a weekend off we've been
00:12:22
training for so long and we thought
00:12:24
skirt we'll we'll go find some sun so we
00:12:26
thought we would drive from Belgium into
00:12:28
into France
00:12:30
um we'd stop at a hotel my geography is
00:12:32
terrible how far uh Belgium to France is
00:12:35
like an hour or two okay I might walk
00:12:37
into Hamilton yeah welcome to Hamilton
00:12:39
but we hadn't really planned it out too
00:12:42
well we rented this car on the Friday we
00:12:43
drove into France we thought we were
00:12:45
going to stop halfway in a place called
00:12:46
Dijon and have a nap and we'll carry on
00:12:50
to our destination the next day and we
00:12:51
we got to Dijon at like I think 11 30 at
00:12:55
night tried to get a hotel and it was
00:12:57
the first day of summer holidays in
00:12:59
Europe and there was not one hotel or
00:13:02
anything available
00:13:04
so we're like screw it so we both took
00:13:07
turns at driving and the other sleeping
00:13:09
and we we literally drove
00:13:12
I think we drove 1200 miles or 1200 K's
00:13:15
we drove from one side of France to the
00:13:18
other and we ended up in Marseille at
00:13:21
like 5 30 in the morning and this is
00:13:24
before your cell phone had like Google
00:13:25
and and all that like that's it
00:13:28
I don't even know like we must have gone
00:13:30
to a bad part of Marseille because it
00:13:32
just wasn't that pretty and we just
00:13:34
looked up places that were really good
00:13:35
and Marseille was one of those places
00:13:37
that I was like oh it's amazing there so
00:13:39
we tune up a bus saying we like this
00:13:40
it's a bit crap so we find the local
00:13:43
McDonald's get our computers out again
00:13:45
and we were like
00:13:46
Google best beaches near Marseille and
00:13:48
we found this tiny little Beachside town
00:13:51
and we drove for another hour and a half
00:13:53
turned up in this town got a hotel
00:13:55
and it was just sunny and it was just
00:13:58
such a good
00:14:00
um mental relief for the both of us
00:14:01
we're away from our coach we're away
00:14:03
from everyone else in the training group
00:14:06
um I'm guessing in that lengthy car ride
00:14:08
like the silence was broken you would
00:14:09
have been chatting with each other but I
00:14:10
suppose bonded by your Disobedience we
00:14:14
were kind of chatting but also like we
00:14:16
got so tired that we had Dev teams we
00:14:19
had to have tons of driving so yeah one
00:14:20
was leaving love is driving so kind of
00:14:23
got to Marseille to this town and the
00:14:25
little Seaside town I kind of remember
00:14:27
the name of it but it was amazing and we
00:14:29
went down to the beach we had our bikes
00:14:31
with us so we had our bikes and a little
00:14:33
tiny little car driving across France
00:14:35
and uh we just went for a bike ride we
00:14:37
found this little
00:14:39
um
00:14:39
little yacht and went for a sale and
00:14:42
went for a swim and just the mental
00:14:44
break from being outside of a training
00:14:46
group that was so stressed and focused
00:14:48
on the Olympics it was literally
00:14:50
everything we needed we had a really
00:14:52
good break had a really good sweet sleep
00:14:54
had some real good food and then the
00:14:56
next day we took our bikes into the
00:14:58
mountains and did a bit of a bike ride
00:14:59
around there had turns driving to the
00:15:01
top of the hill while the other
00:15:02
descended and
00:15:04
oh yeah it was it was incredible and
00:15:07
then yeah if you if one of you asked off
00:15:09
or something but you would have been
00:15:11
sent home it was great yeah we were very
00:15:14
cautious we we knew breaks on all the
00:15:16
way down we knew what was on the line uh
00:15:18
we definitely weren't doing our normal
00:15:19
descents but I think it was just the
00:15:21
fact we were away from everything and we
00:15:23
were just two guys just having a good
00:15:26
road trip just a reset yeah just two
00:15:28
mates it was back to normal it was
00:15:30
really cool and we chatted about
00:15:32
everything and nothing and yeah we had a
00:15:34
few weird situations like we get to one
00:15:36
town and we needed to refuel and no
00:15:39
credit cards were accepted so we had to
00:15:40
figure out how to do stuff like that but
00:15:43
it just kind of added to the trip and it
00:15:44
was it was just good fun and we
00:15:47
literally turned up late that night we
00:15:49
had to drive all the way back
00:15:51
um
00:15:53
and no one could get a hold of us
00:15:55
because we're in a different different
00:15:57
country so uh roaming wasn't working and
00:15:59
I remember our coach having to go at us
00:16:01
for being away and like how could we not
00:16:04
let him know and we're like we're
00:16:05
growing adults like we know what we're
00:16:07
doing we're just having a good break and
00:16:09
we needed it I think before we left we
00:16:11
told everyone we were going to Bruges
00:16:12
which was like an hour away from where
00:16:14
we were staying we actually drove to the
00:16:16
south of France but like we even asked
00:16:19
where we went we're like oh we went to
00:16:20
the south of France yeah we were yeah we
00:16:23
were telling the complete truth and
00:16:25
absolutely no one believed us it was it
00:16:27
was so funny
00:16:29
yeah you needed like Instagram so you
00:16:31
could chicken yeah but literally after
00:16:33
that one weekend
00:16:35
we were on fire again like we we went
00:16:37
into the training pieces the next day
00:16:39
and no one could touch us we were we
00:16:41
were back and it was such a good feeling
00:16:43
to just be on form again and and it was
00:16:47
something as simple as having a break
00:16:49
like when you're mentally down and
00:16:51
you're mentally drained and everything's
00:16:53
just crushing you
00:16:55
not physically but just mentally in your
00:16:57
head having a break and switching off
00:17:00
from there and just resetting was the
00:17:02
best thing that had ever happened to us
00:17:03
and I think if we had not done that trip
00:17:06
there was no way we would have won yeah
00:17:09
isn't that funny hey because I you know
00:17:10
there's the years and years and hours
00:17:12
and hours of training that go into it
00:17:13
which obviously helped you win but at
00:17:15
the end of the day just a simple
00:17:16
unorthodox team building exercise
00:17:18
essentially literally which no one would
00:17:21
ever have approved no not at all no no
00:17:23
like if we really talk to anyone about
00:17:25
that or ask management to let us do that
00:17:27
they would have laughed in our faces and
00:17:29
told us we were crazy but
00:17:31
yeah sometimes just doing something like
00:17:34
just hanging out as mate was the most
00:17:36
important thing for us and it's it's
00:17:39
kind of scary to think how many teams or
00:17:42
how many
00:17:43
Crews have have been in that situation
00:17:46
and not come out of it the right way or
00:17:49
something as simple as just having a
00:17:51
break but somewhere in New Zealand
00:17:53
there's one of those selectors that put
00:17:54
a rocket up you guys and said you were
00:17:56
underperforming and what the [ __ ]
00:17:58
going on yeah that is probably now
00:18:00
sitting back going yeah I gave them a
00:18:01
rocket and uh that definitely helped
00:18:04
yeah yeah did it I don't think so I
00:18:07
think it was way worse than
00:18:09
it was worse than anything just throw
00:18:11
you through you both off your game in a
00:18:12
way not only through us through our
00:18:14
coach and
00:18:15
it was funny because we'd even talked
00:18:17
about
00:18:18
what where we were trying to aim for and
00:18:20
what we were trying to do we were trying
00:18:22
to be as tired and as [ __ ] as we could
00:18:24
before we got on the plane to go to
00:18:26
Europe and that's what we were doing and
00:18:28
then we were in that position and the
00:18:30
day before we left for Europe someone
00:18:32
comes and tells you you're crap and it
00:18:34
just starts making your mind Boggle it's
00:18:37
insane but yeah I guess depending on
00:18:41
what's uh which perspective you look at
00:18:43
it yeah they probably like the selector
00:18:45
probably thought that's what we needed
00:18:47
and that's what they gave us but you're
00:18:49
welcome little did they know we almost
00:18:50
self-destructed but
00:18:52
um I think it was purely the fact that
00:18:55
we managed to
00:18:56
like after all that frustration just
00:18:59
talk it out as as teammates and and get
00:19:01
it sorted and yeah we're lucky we did
00:19:04
and what's your what's your relationship
00:19:06
like now like how often do you guys see
00:19:07
each other you go through something
00:19:08
incredible like that it links you for
00:19:11
life yeah I guess we had probably a
00:19:13
little bit of a break from each other
00:19:14
after the Olympics we'd spend more time
00:19:17
with each other than we had our own
00:19:18
partners and families and things like
00:19:20
that so yeah it probably was a good year
00:19:23
and now we're yeah we're good mates
00:19:25
we're about to do
00:19:26
um the five passes bike challenge in
00:19:29
November
00:19:30
um down in the south island and yeah
00:19:32
every time I get down to Christchurch we
00:19:33
catch up or if he's up here we catch up
00:19:36
and yeah I guess we'll always have that
00:19:37
Bond of the [ __ ] that we went through to
00:19:40
to get to our dreams so yeah and just
00:19:42
this um sporting moment together that
00:19:44
just links you for life and it's
00:19:45
something I suppose as you get older you
00:19:47
look back and it gets even more and more
00:19:48
special in a lot of ways yeah that one
00:19:50
is like for me that's probably the best
00:19:52
award you can get because it's voted by
00:19:54
the public and and there's something of
00:19:57
a sporting moment of the decade yeah it
00:20:00
was
00:20:01
I remember getting told by lots of
00:20:03
people that they were watching our race
00:20:05
and they thought we were going to lose
00:20:06
so they change the channel and then they
00:20:08
looked at the news the next day and we
00:20:09
won so there to re-watch him but I guess
00:20:12
as as kiwis we don't like watching a
00:20:14
kiwi team get their ass kicked
00:20:16
unless you're a Warriors fan in which
00:20:19
case you've grown an immunity yeah but
00:20:21
it was it was one of those cool races I
00:20:24
guess rowings not really a like a sport
00:20:27
where you watch someone get their ass
00:20:29
kicked and then Sprint for a finish it's
00:20:30
not normally like that if you're getting
00:20:32
your ass handed to you you normally
00:20:34
finish that way too so it was it was
00:20:37
very cool to be able to do that so you
00:20:38
won an Olympic um gold medal what's it
00:20:40
like after that is it is it a massive
00:20:43
celebration or are you are you just too
00:20:44
[ __ ]
00:20:46
um the night we won we literally
00:20:49
finished the race and normally when you
00:20:51
finish a race you go do a big warm down
00:20:52
period and and get your legs moving
00:20:54
again but you
00:20:56
you cross the line you go to the podium
00:20:58
you do
00:21:00
media chats you go on the podium middle
00:21:02
you go to a press conference and then I
00:21:05
think we went back to like a um
00:21:09
a cafe bar near the lake and we did
00:21:12
another six hours of Media Chat oh
00:21:15
actually yeah I was probably one of them
00:21:17
I apologize that's so good but we were
00:21:20
we were absolutely stuffed and our legs
00:21:23
had legs had cramped up and we were just
00:21:25
seized
00:21:27
um and we'd had like I think we had like
00:21:29
two beers and after training for so like
00:21:33
training so hard for so long yeah and
00:21:35
not getting on the bus or anything like
00:21:37
that two beers went straight to the head
00:21:38
and we just like if I was like do you
00:21:42
want to go out tonight we're like no we
00:21:43
just want to go back to the hotel and do
00:21:45
nothing just exhausted we're exhausted
00:21:47
and then I suppose you have to get up
00:21:48
the next morning for to do seven sharp
00:21:51
or yeah
00:21:53
4 30 start to to be live on television
00:21:57
for six o'clock news yeah um which was
00:22:00
cool because it was our kind of
00:22:01
opportunity to thank everyone
00:22:03
um they had played a part in in our
00:22:05
achievement and
00:22:07
like you kind of see an achievement and
00:22:09
you think those guys have worked really
00:22:10
hard but there's physios there's
00:22:12
strength and conditioning training is
00:22:14
there's there's office staff that help a
00:22:17
lot and then there's your families and
00:22:18
people in your communities that got you
00:22:20
into the sport so to be able to thank
00:22:22
them
00:22:23
live on television I'm pretty sure most
00:22:26
of them are still pissed
00:22:28
it was just a cool opportunity and
00:22:31
something I'll always be grateful for
00:22:33
too yeah how long you how long are you
00:22:35
riding a high for like how long are you
00:22:36
carrying the middle around for how long
00:22:38
is it until um until the yeah the fuss
00:22:41
around it dies down
00:22:43
um is it a few months it's a good couple
00:22:45
of months yeah like School visits and
00:22:47
whatnot yeah School visits and you come
00:22:49
back to New Zealand and people kind of
00:22:50
recognize you they would have never seen
00:22:52
you before and probably luckily for me
00:22:54
people think I'm a lot bigger than I am
00:22:56
yeah so you are quite short for the
00:22:58
sport aren't you I'm literally I was at
00:23:01
the London Olympics I was the shortest
00:23:02
and lightest heavyweight thrower in the
00:23:04
world
00:23:05
so people could have had this
00:23:07
expectation that I'm some different
00:23:09
person and then they see me and they're
00:23:10
like oh you're just just a normal guy
00:23:13
right yeah the hype was pretty cool
00:23:15
um the parties in London were incredible
00:23:18
definitely had the day after we had a
00:23:20
night of rest
00:23:22
um like are we talking in the Olympic
00:23:24
Village or in London City yeah so in
00:23:26
London there's no real party in the
00:23:28
village till the Olympic Games have
00:23:30
finished and right we kind of get out of
00:23:32
there straight away and head back to New
00:23:33
Zealand but sponsors like Omega and Red
00:23:35
Bull and all that put on these big extra
00:23:37
extravagant parties
00:23:39
um although across New Zealand all
00:23:41
across London and Soho and things like
00:23:43
that so yeah we got to get out and enjoy
00:23:46
that and then you come back from those
00:23:47
big parties and the the food Court's
00:23:49
still open and
00:23:57
it was probably the best time of my life
00:24:00
at that at that point and it was just so
00:24:02
much fun being able to be a part of it
00:24:04
and I was pretty lucky being my first
00:24:06
Olympics um and having that experience
00:24:09
from Nathan it kind of said to me before
00:24:10
we even got to the Olympics don't get
00:24:12
caught up in all the hype like we're
00:24:14
here to do my job because he was there
00:24:16
in 2008 and he rode with Rob woodell so
00:24:19
yeah yeah so he was a more experienced
00:24:21
one yeah definitely more experience and
00:24:22
had kind of gone through it and dealt
00:24:24
with not succeeding which would have
00:24:26
been pretty rough but yeah what do you
00:24:29
what he said to me made a lot of sense
00:24:30
you're not there as a tourist you're
00:24:31
there to complete your job
00:24:34
um and your goals and and then after
00:24:36
that you can enjoy yourself yeah we
00:24:38
definitely did that yeah that's the
00:24:39
thing I suppose that's tough because
00:24:40
there's a lot of people who um probably
00:24:42
like scrape in with selection and
00:24:44
they're lucky to be there and then that
00:24:46
if they make a fine of it would be
00:24:47
incredible but they're not expected to
00:24:49
finish anywhere near near the top but
00:24:51
you guys because of your success in the
00:24:53
world Champs in 2010 and 2011 I suppose
00:24:55
there was like real heat on you
00:24:58
and because we hadn't succeeded in the
00:25:00
World Cups leading end the media took
00:25:02
all the pressure off us because they
00:25:03
thought we were just blown out so there
00:25:05
was almost a blessing in disguise for us
00:25:07
like we were kind of overlooked which
00:25:09
was perfect because it took all that
00:25:10
pressure off and all we had to do was go
00:25:12
and do what we wanted to and there was
00:25:14
to win anyway so that was really nice
00:25:17
and we didn't have to do all the media
00:25:18
interviews before and have that
00:25:20
expectation so
00:25:21
yeah we were as bad as the situation was
00:25:24
leading into it it was almost a blessing
00:25:26
for us as well so that was kind of cool
00:25:29
but you can definitely see how people
00:25:31
get caught up and making sure they're at
00:25:33
the opening and going to all these
00:25:35
different
00:25:36
um events around the Olympics before
00:25:38
their race and just losing focus on what
00:25:40
they're actually there for yeah and
00:25:42
that's that's always sad to see and and
00:25:44
how long um do you carry the middle
00:25:46
around for because I suppose that's one
00:25:48
of those things for a while people ask
00:25:49
where the middle is or they want to see
00:25:50
it or they want to touch it or they want
00:25:52
to put it between their teeth yeah my my
00:25:54
middle definitely took an ass kicking um
00:25:56
it was in my pocket most of the time and
00:25:58
especially at the Olympics like if you
00:26:00
ever needed a ticket to get into things
00:26:01
or get through security you just pull
00:26:03
out the middle and they let you straight
00:26:05
through which was really cool so I got
00:26:06
to see people like Usain Bolt race and
00:26:08
oh [ __ ] and and things like that when I
00:26:10
was not completely hungover but
00:26:13
yeah I think coming back to New Zealand
00:26:15
I didn't really lose too much sight of
00:26:18
it and then for a good solid two years
00:26:21
because people always asked where it was
00:26:23
it said in the glove box in my car so it
00:26:26
was always kind of there yeah I can't
00:26:28
even got stolen but
00:26:30
I don't know why it was always just in
00:26:33
the god box and um so what happened then
00:26:36
between like 2012 and 2016 like I I
00:26:39
suppose what I'm asking is like why why
00:26:40
did you and Nathan come and not become
00:26:42
like Bond and Murray or another you know
00:26:45
any other like um iconic Olympian that
00:26:47
backs it up two or three times yeah I
00:26:50
think after London we kind of both
00:26:52
talked about Nathan City wanted to have
00:26:54
a break from rowing and was going to
00:26:55
have that and then I talked to the
00:26:57
management and they kind of told me I
00:26:58
could have four months off before I
00:27:00
needed to be back in the team
00:27:02
um so we were both kind of doing our own
00:27:04
thing for that little bit of time and
00:27:06
being under all that stress from rowing
00:27:08
together for so long we were kind of not
00:27:10
we weren't the best of mates but we had
00:27:12
their mutual respect um but he went off
00:27:15
and did his thing and I kind of uh went
00:27:18
off to enjoy having a break and my hey
00:27:21
asked me if I wanted to do the coast to
00:27:22
coast and I thought that was pretty cool
00:27:24
so I was training for that and then a
00:27:26
month into my break
00:27:27
my coach came back and said I need to be
00:27:30
training again because everyone's going
00:27:31
really fast and I was like
00:27:33
I don't really care one month into the
00:27:35
four month break yeah one month into my
00:27:37
four month break I got told I need to be
00:27:38
back training because everyone's going
00:27:39
really quick and I'm like well that's
00:27:41
really nice but it's four years till the
00:27:44
next Olympics like we don't need to be
00:27:45
on for me yet yeah you got to peek at
00:27:47
the right time just give me a give me a
00:27:49
bit of time and he kind of just started
00:27:51
putting the pressure on me to start
00:27:52
training again
00:27:53
and reluctantly I think after like six
00:27:55
weeks off I started turning up at
00:27:58
training again and that was just
00:28:00
demoralizing I just didn't want to be
00:28:01
there I wasn't enjoying it because I
00:28:04
didn't come back when he told me to
00:28:07
I wasn't getting put in the crew boats
00:28:09
and I was getting checked in the single
00:28:10
which I didn't enjoy at the time and
00:28:13
I just really hated training for the
00:28:15
whole summer my coach became a selector
00:28:18
and
00:28:19
uh
00:28:20
it all kind of started going downhill
00:28:22
from there he was telling me we needed
00:28:24
to do all this stuff and I was like okay
00:28:26
sweet so I was achieving everything he
00:28:28
wanted me to achieve and I just wasn't
00:28:30
doing it with the same Vigor that he
00:28:32
wanted
00:28:33
and then all of a sudden
00:28:35
um
00:28:36
it came to trials I was pretty Keen to
00:28:38
be in the quad because the double wasn't
00:28:40
really happening and he literally just
00:28:42
wouldn't put me in the crew boats for
00:28:43
training and then came to trials and my
00:28:46
trials just went to [ __ ] pretty sure
00:28:47
they were just trying to get rid of me
00:28:49
at that point I'd said something to our
00:28:52
coach during the season that all the
00:28:54
guys
00:28:55
um were feeding to me because they
00:28:57
thought I'd have some rapport with him
00:28:59
so everyone was kind of feeding me what
00:29:01
they didn't like and I was talking to
00:29:03
him thinking we had a rapport and we
00:29:05
could chat about things like that I
00:29:06
think you were Bros because you've been
00:29:07
doing this amazing thing yeah and then
00:29:09
all of a sudden it was like it was it
00:29:11
just went cold I was getting shot as the
00:29:13
messenger and yeah he just went dark on
00:29:15
me and I just was pushed out of the team
00:29:18
pretty much so you were sort of
00:29:19
unceremoniously dumped really yeah
00:29:21
pretty much so the next trial we went
00:29:24
through the seat racing I was getting
00:29:26
put in the boat that was going the
00:29:27
slower stage time
00:29:29
and they were using that as a factor to
00:29:31
tell me that I wasn't going well and and
00:29:33
it was weird because I would literally
00:29:36
do a race and I'm like they're going to
00:29:37
put me in this boat next and that would
00:29:38
happen and it was it was weird seeing my
00:29:41
own demise are you saying and
00:29:43
recognizing this from the benefit of
00:29:45
like a lot of hindsight or could you
00:29:46
sort of see it happening at the time
00:29:47
slow mo I could see it happening as it
00:29:50
was happening and and it was really
00:29:52
demoralizing
00:29:53
um and then
00:29:54
come to the naming of the team and I
00:29:56
didn't get named and then I get named as
00:29:58
a reserve I kind of sucked it up and I
00:30:00
was like right we've still got three
00:30:01
years till the next Olympics like I can
00:30:03
come back from this I've been tested
00:30:05
before
00:30:07
um just go with it so I I went and did
00:30:10
the single as the reserve for the team
00:30:12
and then they tell me I wasn't expected
00:30:14
to achieve anything like they know I'm
00:30:16
just the reserve for this thing and then
00:30:18
I get made to race as the single and
00:30:21
then they used those results against me
00:30:22
the next year saying that I went
00:30:24
crapping the single and I didn't deserve
00:30:26
this and I didn't deserve that and I'm
00:30:27
like I just spent the last four five
00:30:30
years trying to perfect my technique in
00:30:32
a double like I wasn't a single scholar
00:30:34
anymore yeah from that it was another
00:30:37
crappy year of training and summer and
00:30:39
then came to the selection again and
00:30:41
they named me as a reserve and I was
00:30:42
like now I'm out yeah so you you so you
00:30:45
left on I guess on your own terms on the
00:30:47
way but you were sort of like pushed in
00:30:49
a way it was yeah it was a pushed pushed
00:30:51
Retreat I guess you must have felt just
00:30:55
such a sense of betrayal I was
00:30:57
disillusioned I didn't know what to do I
00:30:58
was completely lost
00:31:01
yeah it was probably the hardest thing
00:31:02
I've ever had to do yeah how was your
00:31:04
how was your mental health through that
00:31:05
it was
00:31:07
terrible yeah really yeah I was
00:31:09
I remember finishing and I just because
00:31:12
I'd thrown all my eggs into one basket
00:31:13
like getting to the Olympics was
00:31:15
everything that I'd focused on
00:31:17
I kind of went to University but it
00:31:19
wasn't for me and I
00:31:21
was like screwed I'm just gonna put
00:31:22
everything into rowing and give this
00:31:24
middle and see what happens from there
00:31:26
yeah when you say University wasn't for
00:31:28
you it was just like the studying aspect
00:31:29
of it yeah like I did a I did a full
00:31:32
semester at University and I just didn't
00:31:34
enjoy it I didn't see myself yeah being
00:31:37
an academic or anything like that I'm
00:31:39
more of a Hands-On yeah and you
00:31:41
absolutely yeah and the funny thing is
00:31:44
that some I I think you should be proud
00:31:45
of proud of that fact because there's a
00:31:47
lot of people that'd be like no I've
00:31:48
signed up to this thing I'm going to see
00:31:49
it through but if you know in your heart
00:31:51
of heart that something's not right I
00:31:53
think there's a lot of power in
00:31:54
accepting that and acknowledging it and
00:31:55
then just um yeah pulling the pin early
00:31:58
yeah definitely yeah so so your mental
00:32:00
health like um
00:32:03
because you simply like a super
00:32:05
motivated guy like a guy that's always
00:32:06
going to find a purpose to get up in the
00:32:07
morning and and get training or whatever
00:32:09
but was there a period there where like
00:32:12
you just lost that interest completely
00:32:14
were you married at the time were you a
00:32:16
single man or as a single man in a
00:32:18
pretty complicated relationship at the
00:32:20
time um
00:32:21
yeah I kind of finished and
00:32:24
there were days where I just wouldn't
00:32:25
get up till 11 or 12 and I was just
00:32:28
sitting on the couch and
00:32:30
I'd have this big plan the night before
00:32:32
of what I was going to do and what I was
00:32:34
going to achieve for the day and then
00:32:35
I'd come to that day and wouldn't get
00:32:37
anything done I just avoided everything
00:32:38
it was like
00:32:41
um I was just procrastinating life
00:32:43
really I was just kind of
00:32:45
living day by day but not achieving
00:32:47
anything
00:32:49
I was going to events and parties and
00:32:52
random things that people would ask me
00:32:54
to go to because when you're training
00:32:55
for rowing literally everything gets put
00:32:57
on the yeah on the sideline and you
00:32:59
don't get to go to weddings or
00:33:01
um like I haven't missed my grandparents
00:33:03
funerals because I was at New Zealand
00:33:06
trials or I was overseas and things like
00:33:08
that so anything that anyone asked me to
00:33:10
I went to it but
00:33:11
my day-to-day life I was like kind of
00:33:13
moping around for how long and how do
00:33:16
you how did you pull yourself out of
00:33:17
that I don't know by the way thanks for
00:33:19
sharing this and admitting it I think
00:33:20
it's really it's really cool because I
00:33:21
feel like it's a yeah there's a lot of
00:33:23
people that have um like mental health
00:33:25
issues and it's like a it's a chemical
00:33:27
imbalance in their brain but then
00:33:29
there's people that go through major
00:33:30
life upheavals and one thing I've
00:33:32
learned in this podcast this year is
00:33:34
absolutely everyone is carrying around a
00:33:36
bag of [ __ ] to some degree exactly it's
00:33:39
just hit the size of the bag yeah it's
00:33:42
true like I don't know one person that
00:33:44
hasn't a [ __ ] time in their life and
00:33:46
it's it's not so much
00:33:49
like how should it was or what made it
00:33:52
happen it's just kind of how you get
00:33:53
through it and sometimes you can't see
00:33:56
the exit or you can't see how you're
00:33:57
going to get through it but you do
00:33:59
though it's like um there's a there's a
00:34:01
running saying especially for the longer
00:34:02
distances you just put one foot in front
00:34:04
of the other yeah it's a good metaphor
00:34:05
for life as well and uh sort of these
00:34:07
are saying this too shall pass and
00:34:09
everything does but yeah so yeah how
00:34:11
long did it last for you it's completely
00:34:12
like it um for me it kind of went for
00:34:16
probably nearly two months like I was I
00:34:19
was existing as a human and people on
00:34:21
the outside probably didn't see it as
00:34:22
much as people really close to me
00:34:26
um because he did you have quite a mask
00:34:28
are you quite good at just um the older
00:34:30
the old yeah I'm all good yeah pretty
00:34:32
much yeah I think it's just the New
00:34:33
Zealand way like everyone asks you'd be
00:34:35
like oh you know I'm just just trying to
00:34:38
reassess what I'm gonna do and you kind
00:34:40
of can talk your way out of it but you
00:34:41
do you come up with like a like a like
00:34:43
just a one sentence sort of explanation
00:34:45
don't you yeah and it was funny like I
00:34:47
remember being on the couch
00:34:50
um watching the America's Cup that was
00:34:52
happening over in San Fran and thinking
00:34:54
how cool was this and it was motivating
00:34:56
me to get up in the morning and we were
00:34:58
winning by eight eight now and then
00:35:00
awesome yeah that's the one with um Dean
00:35:02
Barker and Oracle Oracle was the best
00:35:04
comeback of yeah yeah so that didn't
00:35:06
help to depression either like I was
00:35:09
getting up and every morning and
00:35:10
watching Team New Zealand get their ass
00:35:11
handed to them that's right that was the
00:35:13
start of the Rivalry with Jimmy Smith
00:35:15
all they had to do was win One race and
00:35:17
I just remember watching that thinking
00:35:18
what the hell this is [ __ ] up but
00:35:22
um yeah I kind of got through that and I
00:35:25
suppose those mornings you're thinking
00:35:27
well at least I'm not Dean Barker right
00:35:28
now yeah poor day yeah it was a funny
00:35:31
thing watching the America's Cup from
00:35:32
the outside and what you think about it
00:35:34
and what you feel about it when you're
00:35:36
watching it as a supporter and then
00:35:38
being in the team later on is a
00:35:40
completely different thing but yeah we
00:35:42
will we will get to that should I sorry
00:35:43
so we'll carry on we've been speaking
00:35:45
for like 40 40 minutes already but it's
00:35:47
such a massive life you've had and it's
00:35:49
I think it's it's really really good
00:35:51
um to hear that you have this massive
00:35:52
massive high and this massive dip and
00:35:53
then uh more massive highs again in the
00:35:56
future I think it's encouraging for a
00:35:57
lot of people yeah it sends a message of
00:35:59
hope so through that time like did you
00:36:02
did you get any professional help did
00:36:03
you get any counseling you're trying any
00:36:04
drugs or anything no not recreational
00:36:07
I I didn't get into any drugs or like
00:36:11
support drugs
00:36:13
or
00:36:14
killer pills but I was still seeing the
00:36:17
psychologists that we had from rowing
00:36:19
and I remember like I was seeing him
00:36:21
during my year when everything was
00:36:23
turning to [ __ ]
00:36:25
and I remember even saying to him like
00:36:27
as it was happening like this is going
00:36:28
to happen you watch it like I can see
00:36:30
this is coming and he's like no you're
00:36:33
just thinking negatively and then I went
00:36:35
and talked to him after I got dropped
00:36:36
and he's like no you were you were right
00:36:38
you saw it coming and it's just that's
00:36:41
just [ __ ] up but
00:36:43
um he was really helpful and we talked
00:36:45
through a few things and he was kind of
00:36:47
trying to get me motivated about what I
00:36:49
could do next or was there another sport
00:36:51
that I thought about doing because you
00:36:53
were still young right yeah 20s and your
00:36:55
20s 27 I think when it all turned to
00:36:58
[ __ ] yeah I felt like I had so much more
00:37:00
to give but I didn't really know where
00:37:03
to to put their energy or that time into
00:37:05
and I was kind of just floating around
00:37:07
and I was seeing the psychologist and I
00:37:09
was getting the help I needed and was
00:37:11
trying to stay positive but I just
00:37:12
couldn't see like the out and I was
00:37:14
having big weekends on the bus with
00:37:16
friends and I was kind of enjoying that
00:37:18
side of life but still was just lost and
00:37:20
not following a direction and it wasn't
00:37:23
actually until we kind of did this event
00:37:26
with the halberg's disability and sports
00:37:29
Foundation
00:37:30
and we did this trip racing
00:37:33
um
00:37:33
some Australians around New Zealand
00:37:35
doing different tasks like rowing and
00:37:37
cycling and running and things like that
00:37:39
the team that was actually supporting us
00:37:41
was the green watch fire crew from
00:37:44
Hamilton
00:37:45
and they were driving us around in the
00:37:47
the Vans while we did these events and
00:37:49
like it was all good and went back to my
00:37:51
normal life of just being in despair for
00:37:53
a bit and then one day they they gave me
00:37:56
a call and was like are we pretty Keen
00:37:58
to meet up for a coffee and I met up
00:38:00
with two of the guys from this crew and
00:38:02
they said we think you should join the
00:38:04
Fire Service
00:38:07
never even thought about the fire
00:38:09
service probably since I was a
00:38:11
five-year-old kid like I remember going
00:38:13
to the fire station when I was a kid how
00:38:14
amazing was that you get to go on the
00:38:16
track and try on the gear and it was
00:38:18
really cool it was a disappointment when
00:38:19
we realized most patients don't actually
00:38:20
have a pole yeah exactly
00:38:23
um and then they never thought about
00:38:24
being a farmer never again and then
00:38:26
these two guys literally said we think
00:38:28
you'd be good for the fire service if
00:38:29
you thought about trying so I would have
00:38:32
did a ride along with them in Hamilton
00:38:33
and and just kind of found a sense of
00:38:37
purpose and I really enjoyed kind of the
00:38:40
camaraderie and what was happening in
00:38:42
that kind of group and there was an
00:38:43
intake coming up so I applied and went
00:38:46
through all the testing and did all the
00:38:48
cognitive and the physical testing and
00:38:50
oh you'd fly through that wouldn't you
00:38:51
well I
00:38:52
[Laughter]
00:38:54
think
00:38:56
I got the interview phase and I had my
00:39:00
first formal interview and I never like
00:39:02
I'd been a sports person my whole life
00:39:03
I'd never had to sit down with someone
00:39:05
in power plead my case why I thought I
00:39:08
was going to be a good firefighter and
00:39:09
that kind of stuff and I remember
00:39:11
getting asked these questions and
00:39:13
they're like have you ever had to deal
00:39:14
with this and that and I I explained
00:39:17
what I dealt with and I remember
00:39:19
dropping a few if bombs got out of the
00:39:21
interview and and the guy that I talked
00:39:23
to he rang me up and was like how was
00:39:25
your interview and I think I think it
00:39:27
went good and he rang up the guy who
00:39:28
interviewed me and he's like he dropped
00:39:30
a lot but
00:39:42
yeah he ranged me back and he's like oh
00:39:44
it's it's no looking good you you maybe
00:39:47
you've sworn a bit too much and I was
00:39:48
like ah [ __ ] so
00:39:51
I remember they kind of told us we'd
00:39:53
hear about if we got in or not in the
00:39:56
next 10 days and I waited those 10 days
00:39:58
and got no phone calls so I literally
00:40:00
planned a weekend with the boys and wife
00:40:02
and Freddie Angus sorry and was hitting
00:40:04
on the person
00:40:06
um that was maybe 15 days after the
00:40:09
interview
00:40:10
and I was like oh surely I haven't made
00:40:12
it they were to let me know by now and I
00:40:14
was heading to Freddie anger and got the
00:40:15
phone call to tell me I was in and they
00:40:18
kind of just gave me a a revive to my
00:40:21
life and like a purpose or Direction all
00:40:23
of a sudden I I knew what I was about to
00:40:25
do yeah and where I was going to head so
00:40:28
yeah it was something I look forward to
00:40:30
a reason to get out of bed in the
00:40:31
morning is that sort of what you mean
00:40:32
yeah yeah definitely and yeah it was
00:40:34
just having purpose and I think when
00:40:36
you're in in the phase of depression
00:40:39
just finding that that thing that makes
00:40:43
you get up or makes you move or makes
00:40:45
you get outside of the house or out of
00:40:47
your comfort zone is really important I
00:40:49
know it's literally the hardest thing in
00:40:51
the world to find but just like you said
00:40:54
with the running it's just putting one
00:40:56
foot in front of the other again keep
00:40:58
moving forward just to keep keep moving
00:41:00
and keep getting some traction you're
00:41:02
funny anyway aren't you because I've um
00:41:04
heard interviews with you before and you
00:41:06
talk about your introduction to rowing
00:41:07
and it was like the head boy at the
00:41:08
school grabbed him was like oh come come
00:41:10
with me you're right it seems like it's
00:41:11
the same with the fire service someone's
00:41:13
like oh yeah you should apply for this
00:41:14
uh literally everything in my life has
00:41:16
been like that I got told to start
00:41:18
running oh yeah
00:41:20
and then finish rowing in the fire
00:41:22
service guys tell me to do that sounds
00:41:25
all good like because I'm ready to go
00:41:27
because your part of me thinks that's
00:41:28
probably like a dangerous way to get out
00:41:30
of like a depressive slump like just
00:41:31
wait for something you know you should
00:41:34
be proactive and look for something and
00:41:35
yeah but um I suppose everything happens
00:41:37
for a reason at the right time yeah you
00:41:40
you said you're in a complicated
00:41:41
relationship at the time but did you
00:41:42
have um were you quite good at like
00:41:44
talking with your friends or family or
00:41:45
anything or on you sort of keep things
00:41:47
to yourself yeah yeah I thought I was
00:41:49
good
00:41:51
it was good looking back I probably
00:41:51
wasn't and I probably shut down like I
00:41:53
remember my parents would call and be
00:41:55
like hey you don't know
00:41:56
and you're just kind of fling it off but
00:41:59
I think the older I've got and The more
00:42:01
I've kind of learned from where I was
00:42:02
I'm a lot better at talking about things
00:42:05
and especially with this job in the fire
00:42:07
service
00:42:08
some of the [ __ ] we see now is pretty
00:42:12
um hard to deal with
00:42:14
you know being able to open up and talk
00:42:15
to people
00:42:16
yeah it's hugely important all right
00:42:19
well you've come a long way you should
00:42:20
be proud you should be proud of the work
00:42:21
you've done yeah cheers it's a lot to go
00:42:25
through it's a lot to go through do you
00:42:27
think um
00:42:28
you're a dad now right you got twins
00:42:31
yeah
00:42:32
people are thinking they turn snare too
00:42:34
just very close together yeah I'm
00:42:36
familiar and Izzy yeah two little girls
00:42:38
again do you think like that's even like
00:42:40
peeled off another couple of layers of
00:42:42
um Joseph Sullivan in terms of the you
00:42:45
know I suppose vulnerability or openness
00:42:47
yeah like people always say once you
00:42:49
have kids it changes everything and I
00:42:51
can't
00:42:52
like yeah you're definitely definitely
00:42:55
changes everything like your whole
00:42:56
perspective or life becomes about them
00:42:59
really and what what you do to help them
00:43:02
achieve is probably the greatest thing
00:43:04
but not everyone has that opportunity or
00:43:07
even wants an opportunities to I
00:43:10
completely respect people that don't
00:43:12
want to do it but if parents that are
00:43:14
doing their best to provide for the kids
00:43:16
is really important yeah what was that
00:43:19
sound you don't need to go anywhere not
00:43:20
an alarm it's just a phone call it it
00:43:22
goes through the station yeah
00:43:24
um yeah I don't know if you want to
00:43:27
um talk about this or not but
00:43:29
um like you were tearing up just a
00:43:30
second ago at the point where you're
00:43:31
talking about some of the things you say
00:43:32
you guys are heroes are you you're sort
00:43:35
of rolling your eyes at that you know
00:43:37
like the what what I think the New
00:43:39
Zealand fire service do is far more
00:43:45
what are you guys doing comparison to
00:43:47
someone winning a gold medal from rowing
00:43:49
I think as as the gold medal pales in
00:43:52
comparison you guys do a remarkable job
00:43:54
yeah I mean I don't know if you want to
00:43:55
wait that's not the are you talking
00:43:56
about car accidents or it's
00:44:06
I could hear for you you're going
00:44:07
through the motions um
00:44:09
you're doing what you need to to make
00:44:11
the best outcome possible but it's kind
00:44:14
of afterwards like
00:44:15
I remember when I joined the fire
00:44:17
service
00:44:18
um we didn't really go to Medicals or
00:44:20
things like that but after a year we had
00:44:24
a memorandum of understanding that
00:44:26
we would go to purple calls assisting
00:44:30
um
00:44:30
uh St John's and ambulance and yeah just
00:44:35
anything medical so purple calls which
00:44:37
has got a career store suicides or
00:44:39
or things like that
00:44:46
um yeah I mean I don't know how you um
00:44:49
how you how you process that or deal
00:44:51
with that like is there a good like
00:44:52
counseling team or support here
00:44:55
what do you talk about it with each
00:44:57
other or yeah yeah definitely talk about
00:44:59
it with the boys and kind of
00:45:02
uh you almost have some black humor
00:45:03
about it
00:45:07
it's definitely a coping me because um
00:45:09
like if someone turned up and heard what
00:45:11
we said about situations we went to
00:45:13
you'd think we're all insane but I think
00:45:16
if you don't do that and you don't
00:45:18
distance yourself from the [ __ ] you've
00:45:20
just seen it would crush you and even
00:45:24
now
00:45:25
like I don't think about it much but
00:45:28
like if you do
00:45:30
look back and the list just grows some
00:45:32
[ __ ] that you've seen it's pretty hard
00:45:35
at compounding yeah I normally you find
00:45:37
myself like I'm normally pretty good at
00:45:40
like I'm good at talking about it and
00:45:42
I'm good at kind of seeing it as a of
00:45:45
what it was but sometimes it does just
00:45:47
overwhelm a unit can catch you off guard
00:45:50
yeah I mean thank you for what you what
00:45:52
you do for the country you're in your
00:45:53
mates here I mean I I had a mate of mine
00:45:55
that um
00:45:57
um took his own life a few years ago by
00:45:59
by standing in front of a train and it's
00:46:00
like you know you think of obviously
00:46:03
like it's horrible for us for his
00:46:05
immediate circle like his family and his
00:46:06
friends and whatever and it's horrible
00:46:08
for the train driver who I I don't know
00:46:10
what they see from the cockpit or the
00:46:12
engine or whatever it's called but then
00:46:14
someone's like scraping up you know
00:46:16
pushing it down yeah
00:46:19
yeah I think
00:46:21
suicide is and mentally draining it is
00:46:25
for that person and it seems like the
00:46:26
best escape
00:46:28
I think if they could understand the
00:46:30
impact and it's so hard to see because
00:46:32
you're so blinded by the [ __ ] it's it's
00:46:35
you think I think you're doing everyone
00:46:37
a favor I think you're helping everyone
00:46:39
by disappearing but you're not you're
00:46:41
you're making it so much harder when you
00:46:44
get one around you yeah it's really it's
00:46:46
It's upsetting and it's sad to think
00:46:49
that people think that's the best option
00:46:51
for them and it's definitely not like
00:46:52
I'd way rather someone call me after two
00:46:55
in the morning and just
00:46:57
lit whatever they've got out like that
00:46:59
should moans me as much as you want yeah
00:47:01
I I agree I agree you know I read
00:47:04
somewhere from some Professor there um
00:47:07
when when someone takes their own life
00:47:10
um the the their pain doesn't go away it
00:47:12
just gets transferred to all the people
00:47:13
close to them and I quite like that I
00:47:15
think there's some truth in that 100
00:47:18
all right pretty deep but oh no I wish
00:47:21
there was something that people could
00:47:23
understand before they get to that point
00:47:24
yeah
00:47:25
it's and it's horrible to think that
00:47:28
someone's in that darker spot that that
00:47:30
seems like the best option it's such a
00:47:32
permanent solution to such a what what
00:47:34
is and the big scheme of your life a
00:47:36
temporary problem
00:47:40
can't imagine how many people have
00:47:42
actually been in that situation
00:47:44
like you think it's an uncommon thing
00:47:47
but it's so common there's
00:47:49
I would say what probably three out of
00:47:51
four or three out of five people have
00:47:54
thought about it or contemplated it and
00:47:56
just no one talks about it it's such a
00:47:58
taboo thing but it's so important to
00:48:01
talk to your mates and talk to your
00:48:02
friends or talk to complete stranger
00:48:04
like absolutely yeah
00:48:07
it is a kiwi male thing out like we're
00:48:09
really good at having those superficial
00:48:10
conversations but it's um it's hard to
00:48:12
go a bit deeper but it's it's a it's a
00:48:13
really good and really important thing
00:48:15
to do
00:48:16
um you may not want to answer this but
00:48:18
was when you went through the dark days
00:48:19
after the um rowing career came to a
00:48:22
screeching halt did you ever feel have
00:48:24
days where you felt suicidal or
00:48:27
um I was pretty lucky like I
00:48:30
as as dark as it was I was never like my
00:48:34
I knew my life was worth something and I
00:48:36
I was never in there like I got dark but
00:48:39
I never got to that point where I
00:48:41
thought
00:48:42
this is this is the way
00:48:44
um I always kind of knew
00:48:47
I was gonna come out of it I just didn't
00:48:48
know how it will win yeah or what to do
00:48:51
about it but yeah I think
00:48:53
um
00:48:54
growing up as a kid I got teased a lot
00:48:56
at school and I kind of learned to deal
00:48:58
with that kind of situation a bit better
00:48:59
did you want me to what you teased about
00:49:02
um the big ears
00:49:05
being short yes no it's all part of it
00:49:08
like I I was really like into my sport
00:49:11
as a kid and I was really
00:49:13
um active but I went to a primary school
00:49:16
where every kid was kind of
00:49:19
um from a family that was quite well off
00:49:21
and my family was wasn't there well off
00:49:23
and we were kind of just battling
00:49:25
through life
00:49:26
um and it's nothing to be ashamed of I
00:49:29
I kind of looked back at him was like
00:49:32
why the hell would
00:49:33
would people be like that but kids are
00:49:35
just me oh they are like yeah
00:49:39
primary school but yeah
00:49:41
unintentionally mean but I think
00:49:43
[ __ ] but no empathy no empathy evil
00:49:46
yeah you see like little toddlers even
00:49:48
younger though they're so selfish like
00:49:50
sharing doesn't come naturally no it's
00:49:52
if there's something you learn but
00:49:53
definitely going through primary school
00:49:55
and getting teased and you look back and
00:49:57
think man that kid was an [ __ ] but
00:49:59
they didn't know any better life yeah
00:50:00
we're all kids it was just what happened
00:50:03
everyone just wants to be part of that
00:50:04
group and if someone's teasing a kid
00:50:06
then you just jump on the horny it's
00:50:08
that Pac mentality yeah you just join in
00:50:09
so yeah I kind of went through that and
00:50:12
I think because I reacted badly when I
00:50:15
was getting tears that I've lashed out
00:50:17
and fought back and I was very quick to
00:50:20
lose my temper
00:50:21
I just became a Target and it kind of
00:50:24
just
00:50:26
carried on from there but I think had I
00:50:28
not gone through all that [ __ ] and like
00:50:30
I was the youngest of four siblings and
00:50:32
I think my older brother teasing me and
00:50:35
he may have had some issues from my
00:50:36
sisters and I was kind of the Patrick
00:50:38
was down yeah I was the punch you back
00:50:40
at the end of the line so when it got to
00:50:42
school and someone teased me I lashed
00:50:44
out real quick and
00:50:45
I think as [ __ ] as it was as a kid it
00:50:48
taught me so much more resilience as I
00:50:50
got older I think it made me stubborn
00:50:52
and it made me more driven for sport as
00:50:55
I got older so
00:50:57
yeah even in my darkest days after
00:51:00
getting dropped from growing eye suicide
00:51:02
was still never an option for me oh
00:51:04
that's so lucky and sometimes that
00:51:05
probably tools that maybe helped you
00:51:07
yeah definitely I've got some friends on
00:51:09
Facebook now that aren't they'll comment
00:51:10
on posts or whatever and I'll be like
00:51:11
you [ __ ] you look you made my
00:51:14
fourth form year how like you were a
00:51:16
major [ __ ] to me yeah it sticks with
00:51:18
you right it definitely sucks with you
00:51:20
but I think it's it's
00:51:22
it's how you can use that
00:51:25
to benefit yourself as well so I
00:51:28
remember it being the shittest time of
00:51:30
my life when I was a kid but then as I
00:51:32
got older I used it to drive me
00:51:35
um when I was doing sport I used it to
00:51:37
to prove people wrong I hated being told
00:51:40
I couldn't do something and my coach I
00:51:44
coach it my coach at high school knew
00:51:46
that like he would literally come down
00:51:48
when I was putting my boat on the water
00:51:50
and he was like look
00:51:51
everyone's a lot better than you you're
00:51:53
probably gonna get your ass kicked just
00:51:54
do your best and see what happens
00:51:56
like [ __ ] you
00:51:59
good and smash the rice and went up my
00:52:02
mile and then he'd come back and he'd
00:52:03
just be smiling at me and I thought then
00:52:05
you had to push your buttons listen you
00:52:07
had to manipulate it like right yeah he
00:52:09
knew what would piss me off and you know
00:52:12
just prove him wrongly yeah it was kind
00:52:14
of funny looking back like I didn't
00:52:16
really know he was doing it at the time
00:52:18
but now that I know you can see it you
00:52:20
can see what he was doing and I'm like
00:52:22
they're easy to do to people which is
00:52:24
scary yeah so easy to manipulate people
00:52:28
um to get what you need yes yeah
00:52:31
manipulation is a good word they
00:52:32
probably call it psychologists
00:52:34
wow I guess if it's a positive thing
00:52:37
it's psychology if it's a negative thing
00:52:39
it's manipulation yeah it's hard though
00:52:41
because it's like years later you know
00:52:43
when just before you went to London for
00:52:44
the 2012 Olympics where you won that
00:52:46
gold and uh the selector said you're
00:52:48
performing [ __ ] maybe that's what they
00:52:49
were trying maybe that's the level of
00:52:50
manipulation you'd hope so otherwise
00:52:52
they'd just be absolutely yeah bullies
00:52:54
yeah
00:52:55
um man we've been talking for 59 minutes
00:52:57
and we haven't even got to uh one let
00:53:00
alone two of your America's Cup ones so
00:53:02
so how'd that happen you mentioned
00:53:03
before that like the rowing and like the
00:53:06
fire service
00:53:07
um that sort of just came into your life
00:53:09
at the right time yeah so when I was in
00:53:11
those kind of dark days
00:53:14
um after rowing it kind of finished
00:53:17
um a guy called David slofield who was
00:53:18
part of the high performance sport New
00:53:20
Zealand
00:53:21
um kind of team
00:53:22
he was doing a study on Olympians and
00:53:26
medalists and was trying to figure out
00:53:27
like is there an X Factor as to what
00:53:31
makes us who we are and what drives us
00:53:33
to achieve and win medals and things
00:53:35
like that and
00:53:36
we just had a probably a good yarn for a
00:53:39
good six hours about everything that had
00:53:42
led into
00:53:43
to what got me to the Olympics and and
00:53:46
how we won and things like that and
00:53:48
he was also working with Team New
00:53:50
Zealand at the time for the San Fran
00:53:53
campaign and I remember for this before
00:53:55
or after but he literally just said to
00:53:57
me you'd be a really good for Team New
00:53:59
Zealand have you ever thought about that
00:54:02
why did he think you'd be a good fit for
00:54:04
Team New Zealand because you were in a
00:54:05
like a like a two-person team yeah um so
00:54:07
you go for a two-person team to a very
00:54:09
very big team I think it was just
00:54:12
just the structure the mental side of it
00:54:14
like just play
00:54:16
I'm not 100 of what he saw but I'm glad
00:54:19
he did and maybe it was just your
00:54:21
ability to like just do what you're told
00:54:23
and you know they say they say do this
00:54:26
amount of work and you just you just do
00:54:27
it like a Workhorse yeah I potentially I
00:54:30
definitely didn't always do a lot of
00:54:32
stuff
00:54:33
we always try to push the boundaries and
00:54:35
figure out different ways to do things
00:54:37
but I think that might have been part of
00:54:39
it too because I I know that the team
00:54:41
mentality and Team new zealanders
00:54:43
liver status quo it's always trying to
00:54:45
find a new Option or a thing that's
00:54:47
going to make it better or faster or
00:54:49
easier or or anything like that but yeah
00:54:52
have this big chance for David and then
00:54:55
um
00:54:55
he kind of said I'd be a good fit for
00:54:57
the team and had I ever thought about it
00:54:59
and I was like yeah but then nothing
00:55:01
really happened for probably two years
00:55:03
and I got into the fire service and went
00:55:05
down that path and moved up to walking
00:55:07
because that was the only place to get a
00:55:08
job in the fire service at the time and
00:55:11
literally I was on my way to work one
00:55:13
morning and David rang and was like Team
00:55:15
New Zealander looking for some people
00:55:17
um I put your name down so expect a call
00:55:19
and
00:55:20
next day I got a call from Glenn Ashby
00:55:23
and that was kind of it he asked me if I
00:55:26
wanted to come down and have a look at
00:55:27
the team and and give it a go so I went
00:55:30
down and started doing some gym sessions
00:55:31
and we were at that stage
00:55:34
um Team New Zealand had pretty much
00:55:35
Fallen apart after San Francisco and
00:55:39
it was pretty much a core a bunch of
00:55:41
guys and girls left that were kind of
00:55:43
trying to build the team back up from
00:55:45
nothing a borrowed test boat off the
00:55:47
Italians that weren't going to compete
00:55:50
that year or that campaign and we were
00:55:52
putting that together at the time and
00:55:54
yeah I was just literally I was going
00:55:56
and doing my full-time job as a fireman
00:55:58
and then on my days off I was going down
00:55:59
to Team New Zealand and
00:56:01
and training with them and helping out
00:56:03
wherever I could and we did that for a
00:56:05
year before I actually got a contract
00:56:08
to join the team and that's when we put
00:56:10
the Kettering together and
00:56:12
yeah it was on that whole path and yeah
00:56:14
I was pretty lucky to be a part of it
00:56:16
kind of when they came up with the idea
00:56:19
of cycling and I was involved then
00:56:22
um so I started doing a lot of the
00:56:24
testing for that and kind of going down
00:56:26
that path and we had to keep it a
00:56:27
massive secret for as long as possible
00:56:29
oh yeah so so your role and Tim yourself
00:56:32
is a grinder and that's traditionally
00:56:33
done by um handmade Yeah you sort of
00:56:36
reinvented the wheel in a way and yeah
00:56:38
so I'm not very good at explaining I
00:56:40
skipped past things very quickly but
00:56:41
yeah I got hired as a well not hard but
00:56:44
I got bought into the team to be a hand
00:56:46
grinder and and doing that and then all
00:56:49
of a sudden like I was pretty fit from
00:56:51
rowing and in my past we did a lot of
00:56:54
cross training as a cyclists so I was a
00:56:57
good person to be testing out the
00:56:58
situation in terms of transferable
00:57:01
skills what is it just a good aerobic
00:57:03
engine or what yeah yeah pretty much
00:57:05
rowing makes you I don't know if you can
00:57:08
get much fitter than being a roller like
00:57:09
it it's not only your legs but your back
00:57:12
and your like it literally hurts every
00:57:14
part of your body
00:57:16
um
00:57:17
and you get like I did it for 14 years
00:57:20
nearly so my Base fitness was pretty
00:57:23
incredible back then
00:57:25
um it's a lot harder now that I'm
00:57:26
getting older but when I was nice and
00:57:28
young
00:57:29
um yeah I could kind of do whatever I
00:57:31
was doing and do it for a long time if I
00:57:33
needed to yeah so doing a lot of the
00:57:36
testing for the cycling was it was hard
00:57:38
work and it was done in a little
00:57:39
container
00:57:42
to keep it secret and yeah it was what
00:57:45
what do you mean a little container well
00:57:46
like uh sorry a um like a shipping
00:57:49
container really was it actually yeah so
00:57:51
we had this test bike and a shipping
00:57:53
container that run a few um hydraulic
00:57:55
pumps and yeah we were testing how it
00:57:58
would work and if it would work
00:58:00
and it definitely doesn't work like you
00:58:02
think normally when you're on a bike
00:58:04
you're moving forward so there's inertia
00:58:06
but when you're on a and a bike moving a
00:58:10
hydraulic pump the the top and the
00:58:11
bottom of the pedal stroker did so it
00:58:14
was adapting to that and learning no
00:58:16
idea no idea what you're talking about
00:58:18
to get past that yeah I assumed and I'm
00:58:22
guessing a lot of people listening to
00:58:23
this what a shame that you were like in
00:58:25
um like the Millennium high performance
00:58:26
Sports Institute or somewhere like
00:58:29
really state-of-the-art no uh so in yeah
00:58:32
when Tim New Zealand lost himself around
00:58:34
they kind of lost the base down a
00:58:36
winning quarter and we just moved into a
00:58:38
tent in container world so yeah we had
00:58:41
these big tents that they set up on top
00:58:43
of containers and then everything else
00:58:45
was in containers so yeah when it rained
00:58:48
like the the base pretty much got
00:58:50
flooded and there was water under the
00:58:52
boats like water and the sheds and
00:58:54
things like that so it was a very
00:58:57
Agricultural and yeah people look at
00:59:00
Team New Zealand and think there's a
00:59:01
huge budget and lots of money in
00:59:04
um definitely wasn't the case it was
00:59:06
definitely a lot of bunch of just just a
00:59:08
whole bunch of kiwis and quite a few
00:59:10
Italians at the time
00:59:11
um
00:59:12
just working with the best at best they
00:59:15
could with the tools they had and we
00:59:17
were pretty limited to everything we had
00:59:20
a pretty low budget leading into Bermuda
00:59:22
and yeah everything was done on a
00:59:24
shoestring and I think as kiwis when
00:59:26
we're pushed back into that corner we do
00:59:28
pretty well yeah that old um as they say
00:59:31
number eight wire mentality yeah
00:59:32
reminder Remind Me and Everyone Else
00:59:34
what happened in Bermuda so you won was
00:59:36
it close was that against Jimmy spittle
00:59:37
uh so we had to go through the Louis
00:59:39
Vuitton Cup first see if the race
00:59:42
with TB Artemis French
00:59:46
yeah we have to go through all those
00:59:47
different races just for the opportunity
00:59:49
so you win the Louis Vuitton cup and
00:59:51
then you get the opportunity to race for
00:59:53
the America's Cup which was Oracle and
00:59:55
Jimmy right yeah I I do remember them
00:59:57
pause you there I've known on Bluetooth
01:00:00
for quite a while and um and we were
01:00:01
texting each other when he was over
01:00:02
there and I was like if you win one of
01:00:03
those um Louboutin bags can you like
01:00:06
bring it home for me yeah and then you
01:00:07
guys won and you're on stage and you
01:00:09
just got a Louis Vuitton bag that you
01:00:10
want and you walked through them to the
01:00:12
[ __ ] crowd
01:00:15
this must have been Furious I definitely
01:00:16
didn't throw mine
01:00:18
you're gonna remember when we're over in
01:00:20
Bermuda the crowd that's in front of us
01:00:23
is actually our own team
01:00:25
like all our own partners and right so
01:00:28
you think it's a big random crowd but
01:00:30
it's our own families and things like
01:00:32
that so people are just throwing it to
01:00:34
their wives and partners and things like
01:00:35
that but then all the bags got taken and
01:00:37
it actually spread throughout the team
01:00:39
so the sailing team didn't actually get
01:00:40
the bags in the end okay because I'm
01:00:42
guessing so how many people are on the
01:00:43
boat so I think it was
01:00:47
how big is the entire Team New Zealand
01:00:52
uh tweeting something oh [ __ ] yeah so I
01:00:54
think that's another thing people don't
01:00:56
see is like people see the sailing team
01:00:58
when we're racing and that's kind of it
01:01:00
that there's boat Builders designers
01:01:03
this shocker there's
01:01:06
uh the office there's lawyers there's
01:01:07
everything and it's just this massive
01:01:10
working machine with everyone on the
01:01:13
same kind of page fighting for the same
01:01:15
goal
01:01:16
um to achieve winning the America's Cup
01:01:18
so yeah what a thing to be involved with
01:01:20
yeah and what's it's what's better with
01:01:22
you like being um the you know the
01:01:24
poster boy and a two-person team winning
01:01:26
a gold medal or just being like a
01:01:28
essentially a face in the crowd on the
01:01:30
boat I mean I mean when you think of
01:01:32
Team New Zealand it's like yeah I
01:01:34
suppose you think of like you know Blair
01:01:36
and Pete or whatever yeah most most new
01:01:38
zealanders can probably name them I
01:01:39
guess maybe maybe one or two others I
01:01:41
don't know
01:01:43
all you workers then we're all in the
01:01:45
background but I I enjoy that side of it
01:01:48
yeah I enjoyed just being part of a team
01:01:50
and it's it's something to be part of a
01:01:52
crew as small or as large as it is
01:01:55
working for that same achievement and I
01:01:57
think that's probably what I enjoy like
01:02:00
I kind of do it throughout my whole life
01:02:02
whether it be rowing the fire service or
01:02:04
Team New Zealand like yeah we're in a
01:02:07
fight like we're we're a crew of the
01:02:09
fire service we turned up to an incident
01:02:11
and we're doing the best we can to
01:02:13
achieve the best outcome possible and
01:02:15
yeah it kind of transferred it first
01:02:17
through everything I do in life I feel
01:02:19
like you need that in life in your life
01:02:21
we probably all do but you in particular
01:02:23
you need something that you know I feel
01:02:25
like you thrive on that yeah I think I
01:02:27
just like having a purpose yeah when I'm
01:02:29
training I I'm never good at doing it
01:02:31
just on my own like I have to have a
01:02:33
reason why I'm doing it yeah or a
01:02:35
purpose or almost someone that if I
01:02:38
don't do it I'm leading someone down
01:02:40
and I think now for me at the moment
01:02:42
it's like I kind of use my family as
01:02:45
much as I say that I don't put pressure
01:02:46
on me I put the pressure on myself like
01:02:48
I want to achieve so I can support them
01:02:51
and help them and give them a good life
01:02:53
so do you mean like from a financial
01:02:55
perspective or life experience really
01:02:58
right
01:02:59
so they
01:03:01
um and just be someone your daughters
01:03:02
can be proud of yeah my name is
01:03:04
driving factor for me enjoy having it
01:03:06
and I'd like to have more but
01:03:09
I joined the fire service if I was
01:03:11
striving to be really rich like I just I
01:03:14
find things that I enjoy and I find
01:03:16
purpose in and that's what I get the
01:03:18
most out of but definitely for my family
01:03:21
I I just want them to be proud of me but
01:03:23
I also want to give them opportunities
01:03:26
um to enjoy life and and try different
01:03:28
things and hopefully travel a bit more
01:03:30
too yeah yeah I think yeah that money is
01:03:33
a funny thing over because it's like
01:03:34
obviously you you know you you need it
01:03:36
to a certain degree to be happy to be
01:03:38
happy but then when you've got enough
01:03:39
it's like you know it's it's a point of
01:03:41
diminishing returns isn't it yeah it
01:03:43
doesn't even mean a rich person that
01:03:45
thinks they have enough money like now
01:03:47
so you get to avoid that everyone just
01:03:48
wants more but yeah I think it's it's
01:03:51
funny that sweet spot we can provide for
01:03:54
your family comfortably but also have
01:03:57
good life experiences and enjoy what
01:03:59
you're doing yeah absolutely that's far
01:04:01
more important I'd like to have enough
01:04:02
money that I don't have to go to work
01:04:03
all the time but you've got um yeah a
01:04:06
hell of a commute so you live in
01:04:08
Tauranga at the moment Tauranga and you
01:04:10
live in are you working which um it's
01:04:13
where we're sitting here in one of the
01:04:14
offices at the fire service which it's
01:04:16
this um it's like a Timber Mill town but
01:04:18
it's a sleepy little town
01:04:20
um it's like a one-hour commute maybe
01:04:21
100ks yeah it's just over an hour yeah
01:04:23
100K each way do you I was thinking
01:04:26
about this just just before like you
01:04:27
know we um touch upon some fairly
01:04:30
emotional stuff before
01:04:31
um is it part of the reason you enjoy
01:04:34
being in a like a sleepier sort of fire
01:04:37
station uh a police action or no I'd
01:04:41
prefer to be at a busy station like yeah
01:04:43
would you I I enjoy going to calls and I
01:04:45
enjoy the challenges that they provide
01:04:47
like each call is always different and
01:04:50
um as hard as they can be it's
01:04:53
it's kind of you feel a sense of purpose
01:04:55
being at it and you're hopefully doing a
01:04:58
better job or giving
01:04:59
the outcome a better option
01:05:02
by being there and being part of it or
01:05:04
helping stop it I guess so for me
01:05:08
sitting at a classic quiet station it's
01:05:11
not really something I enjoy I kind of
01:05:13
you're bored get lost and bored yeah
01:05:15
yeah and find myself becoming lazy but
01:05:19
um yes it's a means to an end I'm
01:05:21
looking forward to trying to get into
01:05:22
Tauranga and bring it again in the
01:05:24
community a bit more yeah it's funny how
01:05:26
like you mentioned before like about um
01:05:28
the goal is to get positive outcomes
01:05:29
what you're doing here is you know it's
01:05:33
so much more important than winning like
01:05:35
a a boat racing trophy or a medal you
01:05:38
know what I mean yeah like the stakes
01:05:39
are so you know there's there's so many
01:05:42
more of you around the country and um
01:05:44
everyone in the fire service is under
01:05:46
the radar but the the job is so [ __ ]
01:05:48
important yeah it's it's crazy to think
01:05:52
that if we were there like what would
01:05:54
happen to a lot of people yeah it's
01:05:57
it's yeah it's an honor to be able to be
01:06:00
part of it and I think firefighters and
01:06:03
anyone that's in that kind of support
01:06:05
role by police or ambulance get
01:06:07
overlooked for what they actually do for
01:06:10
people and it's probably not till
01:06:12
someone's in that situation where you
01:06:13
desperately need us that you actually
01:06:15
appreciate what we do but
01:06:18
yeah I know for a lot of people yeah
01:06:20
it's just being able to help your
01:06:22
community and help people around you not
01:06:24
only if it does it for the money in this
01:06:26
job because if you were joining the fire
01:06:28
service to be rich you yeah yeah yeah
01:06:31
yeah yeah it sense of purpose I guess
01:06:34
yeah so um there's probably a lot of
01:06:37
people listening to this I feel like a
01:06:38
lot of people have gone through some
01:06:39
sort of weird [ __ ] like change over the
01:06:41
last couple of years with the pandemic
01:06:42
and whatnot and there's a lot of people
01:06:43
that are probably like thinking ah I'm
01:06:46
doing this job do I really enjoy it is
01:06:48
this what I'm gonna do for the best rest
01:06:50
of my life that are thinking about like
01:06:51
a career transition and not necessarily
01:06:53
the fire service but just from one job
01:06:55
to something else and it seems like a
01:06:57
terrifying Prospect I think for a lot of
01:06:58
a lot of people what would your advice
01:07:00
be to those people
01:07:01
I'm terrible at that as well because I
01:07:04
wouldn't even know where to start when
01:07:05
it comes to trading a job but I think if
01:07:08
you don't find purpose in what you're
01:07:10
doing you probably do need to start
01:07:11
looking for something else
01:07:14
um as hard as it may be probably trying
01:07:16
to secure that job before you leave it
01:07:18
when you're ready
01:07:21
yeah that's some good advice I don't
01:07:24
know I
01:07:25
I can really
01:07:26
brought back to people I think as hard
01:07:28
as it was being locked down I think
01:07:30
people realized how much nicer it was to
01:07:33
be home with their family and how
01:07:34
important it was to spend time with them
01:07:37
and I think that's what businesses are
01:07:39
struggling with now is people going back
01:07:41
to work and they're realizing I actually
01:07:43
really enjoyed being with my family like
01:07:45
why am I doing this to myself like
01:07:47
everyone goes to work to to make more
01:07:49
money to provide better for their family
01:07:51
but people forget that their family just
01:07:54
wants them around they'd rather you be
01:07:56
there than be at work for 100 hours a
01:07:58
week so it's finding their work-life
01:08:00
balance is really difficult and I think
01:08:02
everyone's having to adjust to it but
01:08:04
whether it be businesses and or
01:08:06
employees
01:08:07
yeah I think it was a bit of a reset for
01:08:09
people I had a chance to reassess your
01:08:10
priorities and also now everyone knows
01:08:13
that you can actually work from home
01:08:15
yeah effectively yeah for a lot of jobs
01:08:21
um yeah not so much for this job but
01:08:22
yeah
01:08:24
um definitely for a lot of a lot of jobs
01:08:26
working at home and being able to pick
01:08:28
up your own kids from school is is
01:08:30
really important yeah hugely so hugely
01:08:33
so so how old are your kids now uh three
01:08:35
and one and a half oh [ __ ] so they they
01:08:37
know nothing about you you're just
01:08:40
you're just wow all alone for a treat
01:08:43
they have no clue which is like quite
01:08:45
fun like my daughters they wouldn't even
01:08:47
know what an Olympic gold medal is no
01:08:48
like my daughter pulls it out and
01:08:50
smashes it against the window yeah
01:08:53
my my wife put all my medals in a vase
01:08:56
one day and I was like what are you
01:08:58
thinking like my oldest when she was
01:09:00
about one and a half pulled them out
01:09:01
just started smashing them against the
01:09:03
bars and shattered the bars and I was
01:09:05
like
01:09:06
it wasn't always going to happen but
01:09:07
yeah to her they just play things and
01:09:10
they're like tokens I guess some toys
01:09:12
but yeah hopefully one day they kind of
01:09:15
can be proud of me for what I've done
01:09:17
well I think I think they definitely
01:09:19
will be but I think um their their
01:09:21
proudness of what you've done on the
01:09:23
water is going to be eclipsed by you
01:09:25
know just how proud they are of the job
01:09:26
you've done as their father
01:09:28
yes that's the most important thing to
01:09:30
me oh 100 of us yeah I can tell you're
01:09:33
super proud of them and now but you know
01:09:34
you know I've followed each other on
01:09:36
Instagram for a while and I see you
01:09:37
playing on the trampoline with them and
01:09:38
stuff seems like you're doing the dad
01:09:39
thing pretty well yeah
01:09:41
yeah we enjoy that the most um something
01:09:43
cool about when you get home and they're
01:09:45
just excited to see you and all of a
01:09:47
sudden they're very excited because they
01:09:49
know that you'll jump on the tram with
01:09:50
them or you'll take them biking or the
01:09:52
massive list of things that they want to
01:09:54
do with you even when you do you know or
01:09:57
just finish the mess of training they
01:09:58
don't see all that kind of hurt but yeah
01:10:01
it's just sucking enough and doing it I
01:10:03
really enjoy it yeah that's a fun it's
01:10:06
got to be the that's going to be the
01:10:07
weirdest sort of
01:10:08
juxtaposition I guess like having like a
01:10:11
like a hard day and a hard day at work
01:10:13
for you is a [ __ ] hard day and then
01:10:14
going home to just that like
01:10:16
unconditional love and um
01:10:21
yeah yeah they don't give a [ __ ] what
01:10:24
I've done at work
01:10:26
we're gonna go play on the trip now so
01:10:29
yeah thank you I suppose it stops you
01:10:31
from like my I mean the stuff never goes
01:10:34
away but I suppose it forces you to push
01:10:35
shut down and just be present to me in
01:10:38
the moment I think it just helps you
01:10:39
appreciate what you've got in as as
01:10:42
should as a day at work or whatever can
01:10:45
be taking life back to a simple form of
01:10:47
just enjoying being around each other
01:10:50
and who you're with whether it be
01:10:51
friends family or or kids or anything
01:10:53
like that just appreciate the time you
01:10:56
have with each other yes yeah just going
01:10:58
out with your mates and having a social
01:10:59
drink sometimes can can be such
01:11:03
um a therapeutic thing
01:11:05
for a lot of people yeah human
01:11:08
connections yeah
01:11:11
isolate yourself and I think it's the
01:11:14
scary thing with social media as we see
01:11:16
like all these things happening and we
01:11:18
can sit on the couch and kind of feel
01:11:20
like we're part of it but being out
01:11:22
there and actually doing it is probably
01:11:23
the most important thing yeah that's so
01:11:26
true because you have that I don't know
01:11:28
I do anyway sometimes on social media
01:11:30
you have that fomo the fear of missing
01:11:31
out and it's like what you're doing by
01:11:34
being in that moment is that you're
01:11:35
skipping over your actual life and
01:11:37
you're missing out on that particular
01:11:38
moment yeah exactly yeah so how did you
01:11:41
and your wife
01:11:42
was she the complicated one from before
01:11:45
yeah no she was definitely she was the
01:11:47
first one so she was a she's a yachting
01:11:49
groupie
01:11:53
um
01:11:54
I met my wife I actually met on Tinder
01:11:57
I'd just come out of a tough
01:11:59
relationship and was just kind of having
01:12:01
fun with life again
01:12:04
um and met Jordan and
01:12:06
she was pretty I guess naive to
01:12:09
everything that had happened she'd never
01:12:11
followed sport like I picked her up for
01:12:14
a date and took her out for a date and
01:12:16
with your gold medal
01:12:18
I just want a car at the time and she
01:12:20
didn't she didn't even look at the side
01:12:22
of it she was just like I had your name
01:12:23
yeah and she's like oh it's just a
01:12:25
worker
01:12:27
um so it took her out on the stage we
01:12:28
had this big chat and I never mentioned
01:12:30
anything about the Olympics or sport or
01:12:32
anything like that and we just had a
01:12:33
really good connection and it wasn't
01:12:36
until like the third date and she
01:12:38
actually looked at the side of the card
01:12:39
and she's like if you if you want a gold
01:12:41
medal or something I was like yeah I
01:12:44
kind of do a sport for a living she was
01:12:46
like ah I thought you just did it for
01:12:49
fun or something so
01:12:52
what do you think I actually do for a
01:12:54
job and she's like I don't actually know
01:12:57
she must have Googled she must have she
01:13:00
had no clue and I think that's what I
01:13:02
appreciated about it more like yeah yeah
01:13:04
I think
01:13:05
after I want to go middle
01:13:07
it was funny like you meet people and
01:13:09
they kind of don't give you the time of
01:13:10
the day and then they go talk to someone
01:13:12
else and then someone else tells them
01:13:13
what you've just done and all of a
01:13:15
sudden they come back and try to talk to
01:13:16
you again and get it real in-depth and I
01:13:19
just don't have time for those people
01:13:20
like oh that's a tear that's terrible
01:13:22
it's so strange people do it so often
01:13:26
they'll completely ignore you and then
01:13:28
they realize that you've done something
01:13:29
important and then they're like oh like
01:13:31
they want something out of you yeah it's
01:13:33
strange but it's so weird I've got to
01:13:36
make that used to playing the All Blacks
01:13:37
and you know you'd get people like that
01:13:38
but you'd also get like drunk people
01:13:40
that come up and be like I I don't even
01:13:43
know who you are yeah you think you're
01:13:46
hot [ __ ] and it's like get the [ __ ] out
01:13:48
I always like that the funniest like
01:13:50
yeah they have no idea what you've done
01:13:52
but someone's told them you've done
01:13:53
something and they kind of try to dress
01:13:55
you down and bring you down to do a
01:13:56
little bit like it's such a New Zealand
01:13:59
mentality yeah yeah [ __ ] you for
01:14:01
achieving something yeah yeah help me
01:14:03
how to be a piece of [ __ ] like me
01:14:06
oh I love that I love that it's good fun
01:14:09
though that's cool so how long you guys
01:14:10
been together now just
01:14:11
over here it's nearly eight years now
01:14:12
and is she because you have to take time
01:14:15
unpaid leave from the fire service to do
01:14:17
the um America's Cup stuff does that end
01:14:19
up being like a pay increase or a pay
01:14:21
decrease to go to the stable salary of
01:14:23
the fire service yeah so the first time
01:14:26
I think I joined Tim New Zealand it was
01:14:27
a pay decrease
01:14:28
I'm more on the fire service but that
01:14:31
just showed the funds at the time the
01:14:33
funds at the time is as tough as it was
01:14:37
in New Zealand then no one was really
01:14:39
getting paid more I think that was the
01:14:41
best part as everyone was there for the
01:14:42
right reasons no one was there for the
01:14:43
money everyone was there to to bring the
01:14:45
cup back to New Zealand again and that
01:14:47
was it was a cool mentality to be part
01:14:50
of
01:14:51
um but yeah going back to the fire
01:14:52
service it was nice and then the next
01:14:55
time I got into New Zealand there was a
01:14:57
bit better
01:14:58
uh we got paid properly this time and
01:15:01
yeah they come back to the fire service
01:15:03
was a bit more difficult
01:15:05
yeah that's all part of it and I think
01:15:08
just having that experience the second
01:15:09
time with Team New Zealand was really
01:15:11
good as well yeah that was cool so the
01:15:12
first one it was in Bermuda the second
01:15:14
one was um the one that happened
01:15:15
um oh wait sort of when the rest of the
01:15:17
rest of the world was still locked down
01:15:19
really wasn't it yeah massive sporting
01:15:20
event was happening New Zealand was in
01:15:22
lockdown we were
01:15:23
like I remember the day what was it it
01:15:26
was our Physio and it was kind of in
01:15:28
charge of our medical side of Team New
01:15:30
Zealand as well and he's like boy is
01:15:32
this this pandemic is real like it's
01:15:34
happening
01:15:35
people are going to die you know we need
01:15:37
to start getting a bit more onto it and
01:15:39
we were like yeah it's just something
01:15:41
something different like it's all going
01:15:44
to pass by and then the next day he's
01:15:46
like yeah we're packing up like we're
01:15:48
going into lockdown like grab the
01:15:50
Grinders now take them home
01:15:52
um we don't know how long we're gonna be
01:15:54
in lockdown and I was like this is just
01:15:56
strange and like it was one of those
01:15:58
weird like it almost felt like an
01:16:00
Armageddon moment you know no one really
01:16:02
knew what it means no one like you
01:16:04
remember saying oh this is just going to
01:16:05
be for a couple days and then we'll be
01:16:06
out but yeah and then five weeks went
01:16:09
past and it was it was abnormal like my
01:16:12
wife was still working from home she was
01:16:14
still having to work full time so all of
01:16:16
a sudden we had our oldest daughter
01:16:18
um Amelia and I became the full-time
01:16:20
carer and I'd been working for Team New
01:16:22
Zealand and we're working like seven
01:16:23
days a week and then all of a sudden I
01:16:24
was at home and I was put in front of
01:16:27
this one-year-old and like you're a
01:16:29
child and I'm like [ __ ] I had to
01:16:32
readjust it and learn how to be a parent
01:16:34
and it was it was hard for like the
01:16:37
first week and I remember my wife just
01:16:38
glaring at me and giving me the evils
01:16:41
and I wasn't doing it how she did it we
01:16:43
had argument after argument and I was
01:16:45
like just let me do my thing and it was
01:16:48
it was a weird kind of concept to to
01:16:51
like I was a parent when I was a father
01:16:53
but I hadn't really been doing any
01:16:55
day-to-day yeah parenting it seems like
01:16:57
you and your wife needed to go on a road
01:16:58
trip overnight to south of France or
01:17:00
somewhere I definitely after that week
01:17:03
we definitely
01:17:05
um things came good and we kind of
01:17:07
readjusted and hey it was a hard time
01:17:10
like if I'd have just been thrown into
01:17:11
absolute turmoil and like it was you
01:17:15
know how could you not be stressed and
01:17:16
and get into each other but after that
01:17:19
week life just became really simple and
01:17:22
it became really easy and I was like out
01:17:25
like I get out really early do all my
01:17:27
training that I had to do and then I
01:17:28
just spend the day with my daughter be
01:17:30
outside digging holes or on the grass
01:17:33
crawling around or like balancing on the
01:17:35
retaining wall which my wife also didn't
01:17:37
like
01:17:38
my one-year-old learning to walk on on
01:17:42
the retaining wall but I was just
01:17:44
impressed by her balance and she loved
01:17:46
it so all right kids kids are so bouncy
01:17:49
as well oh yeah I I just couldn't never
01:17:52
get over how quickly they learned and
01:17:54
like they don't even know what danger is
01:17:55
so yeah for her she just thought it was
01:17:58
fun and I was getting enjoyment out of
01:18:00
it and yeah
01:18:01
I know it was a horrible experience for
01:18:03
a lot of people but yeah a lot of cool
01:18:05
experiences to take from there if you
01:18:07
can find them I I I I'll be interested
01:18:09
to see stats like down the down the
01:18:10
track somewhere about you know how many
01:18:12
like relationship breakups there were or
01:18:14
divorces or whatever because I think a
01:18:15
lot of people who probably had a
01:18:17
relationship with their partner where
01:18:18
they're like ships in the night or yeah
01:18:19
you know you just have like a brief
01:18:21
conversation about the kids after a work
01:18:22
day or whatever suddenly we're in the
01:18:24
house together for weeks [ __ ] we we've
01:18:27
grown so far apart I never realized that
01:18:29
yeah
01:18:30
yeah the strangest thing to look back
01:18:31
and see what
01:18:32
shift it made yeah in countries and
01:18:35
people like at that point in time yeah
01:18:37
some for the good and some for the
01:18:39
Badland
01:18:40
so what's next for you is there another
01:18:41
America's Cup campaign on you or I feel
01:18:44
like you're going to need some um yeah
01:18:46
some sort of sporting thing to focus on
01:18:47
I don't know it's got a lot of a lot of
01:18:49
very good years left in here did you
01:18:51
ever do that Coast to Coast with my hate
01:18:52
Drysdale yeah
01:18:54
um it was a bad Coast to Coast looking
01:18:57
at it like
01:18:59
um I did the coast to coast but I was
01:19:01
still a full-time rowing training and
01:19:02
went into it really naive about how hard
01:19:04
it was going to be and I remember lining
01:19:06
up on the west coast and everyone just
01:19:09
sprinting off the beach for for the
01:19:12
bikes and I was like why the hell is
01:19:13
everyone sprinting like why would you do
01:19:15
this this is a long way to go
01:19:17
and then once I got to the bike and saw
01:19:18
the lead group had disappeared and I was
01:19:20
with this bunch of old people that were
01:19:21
just doing it to achieve it and I was
01:19:23
like that's why you sprint I was in this
01:19:26
slow group and just trying to like rally
01:19:29
them up to move forward and yeah because
01:19:31
because the Peloton thing in cycling or
01:19:33
like riding in a bunch uh it makes it
01:19:36
like a lot easier doesn't it like 20 or
01:19:37
30 percent it makes it so much easier
01:19:39
and if you can Sprint off the beach and
01:19:41
be with that fast group right off the
01:19:42
bat then you're literally an hour or two
01:19:44
Faster by the time you get to the run
01:19:47
and then it all kind of compounds
01:19:50
um if you leave it so yeah I went into
01:19:52
it really slow and I'll take my time and
01:19:54
I'll achieve and yeah
01:19:57
why the hell did I do that I could go so
01:19:59
much faster but yeah don't worry mate
01:20:01
we'll make up time on the on the kayaks
01:20:03
yeah actually because Mahi ran off and
01:20:05
he got on the front group and I managed
01:20:07
to catch him on the run and I just had
01:20:10
destroyed myself trying to catch him and
01:20:12
then all of a sudden coming down the
01:20:13
hill he just ran past me again and I
01:20:15
just had to watch him go
01:20:23
as much as I hated it at the time I also
01:20:27
loved it like it was such a weird thing
01:20:29
to look back at I remember being on the
01:20:31
bike coming into Christchurch
01:20:33
and I was so tired and so just ruined
01:20:36
like I'd hit a traffic light
01:20:38
and I must have just missed like the
01:20:41
point where they had all the lights
01:20:43
corded off and they were letting the
01:20:44
Cycles through oh God I came into
01:20:47
Christchurch and I hate every red light
01:20:48
and I remember just abusing the lights
01:20:50
like I'd I'd have to stop and I'd just
01:20:53
be yelling at it and people with the
01:20:55
cars around me must have just thought I
01:20:56
was absolutely crazy but I was just so
01:20:59
delusional and I just needed to finish
01:21:01
that damn rest it was just funny but man
01:21:04
it was such a cool achievement to finish
01:21:06
yeah it's an epic event oh yeah so yeah
01:21:09
sorry I was getting excited and another
01:21:11
America's Cup in you mate yeah
01:21:13
um trading at the moment I'm trying to
01:21:16
to be the best I can come the trial
01:21:19
um coming up so yeah I
01:21:22
we're going back to the bikes again so
01:21:25
we've gone from having really strong
01:21:27
legs to really strong upper body for the
01:21:29
last cup to having to readjust my body
01:21:31
again and get my leg strength back up so
01:21:34
just kind of going through the motions
01:21:36
at the moment and trying to put myself
01:21:38
in the best position I can be for the
01:21:40
trial and hopefully make it
01:21:43
um but yeah we'll see what happens I'd
01:21:45
love to be part of the team again I just
01:21:47
I love being in the atmosphere of giving
01:21:49
everything I can to
01:21:51
to power that boat and be on the team
01:21:55
and and achieving hopefully if we can
01:21:57
win it in Barcelona we can uh be in a
01:22:00
better position to bring it back to New
01:22:02
Zealand again so yeah yeah I'd love to
01:22:04
be a part of it but we'll just see what
01:22:05
happens that'll be awesome and what else
01:22:07
in the future more kids more kids
01:22:09
planned or no no more kids have already
01:22:11
been to the doctor oh have you had my uh
01:22:14
my nuts tampered with but
01:22:17
yeah I'm just enjoying being a father as
01:22:20
well so yeah whatever kind of happens
01:22:22
I'll I'll readjust to what's happening
01:22:25
and go forward I've kind of I've never
01:22:28
had a really solid plan in my life so
01:22:30
yeah everything seemed to work out okay
01:22:32
it has no just by sort of following your
01:22:34
yeah I don't know just following
01:22:36
following what feels right at any given
01:22:37
moment I guess yeah I think
01:22:40
at some points people get so focused on
01:22:42
achieving one thing that they've they
01:22:44
miss opportunities coming around them so
01:22:48
um yeah I kind of just take
01:22:50
opportunities when they come and try not
01:22:52
to say no to too many things and see
01:22:54
where it leads I've been pretty lucky
01:22:56
fed my UPS and my downs but yeah more
01:22:59
ups and downs I'm pretty grateful for
01:23:01
what I've been able to achieve and and
01:23:03
the opportunities I've been given so oh
01:23:06
you should be you should be and I think
01:23:08
that's probably a good place to end it
01:23:09
yeah for sure yeah amazing Joseph
01:23:11
Sullivan uh one gold medal two America's
01:23:15
cups so far two beautiful kids and an
01:23:18
amazing career with the fire service and
01:23:20
you're just kidding howdy now 35. you're
01:23:23
just getting [ __ ] started hopefully
01:23:25
not even midlife yet not even half time
01:23:27
on the clock
01:23:29
a few more things I'd
01:23:31
achieved but
01:23:32
yeah amazing oh whatever it is I look
01:23:35
forward to following you thanks for
01:23:36
being so generous with your um time and
01:23:37
your stories today mate appreciate it
01:23:40
cheers likewise
01:23:43
that was the incredible Joseph Sullivan
01:23:45
what a guy hey if you haven't done so
01:23:47
already wherever you get your podcast
01:23:48
from most likely Spotify or apple why
01:23:50
don't you check us a five-star rating or
01:23:52
um if the platform allows it write a
01:23:54
review as well I read all of them and I
01:23:56
appreciate all of them so much and uh
01:23:58
someone was explaining to me how it um
01:24:00
impacts the algorithms so the more
01:24:02
ratings we get and the more reviews we
01:24:04
get the better the podcast goes also you
01:24:07
can get a hold of me by email
01:24:09
domharveynz gmail.com or on Instagram
01:24:11
domharvey NZ I always welcome your
01:24:14
feedback and also your guest suggestions
01:24:17
there's some amazing people out there
01:24:18
doing some incredible stuff but unless
01:24:20
you guys bring them to my attention
01:24:22
um I can't get them on the podcast all
01:24:24
right once again thanks very much really
01:24:26
really genuinely appreciate having you
01:24:28
guys here and hope to see you next week
01:24:30
on Runners only with dom Harvey
