00:00:00
My friends are some of the most amazing
00:00:01
people. And
00:00:06
one of your best mates, Michael Break,
00:00:07
he's he's a gold medalist as part of
00:00:09
that rowing eight, which he just missed
00:00:11
out on. How's watching those Olympics?
00:00:13
Oh, [ __ ] It was It was crazy, man.
00:00:15
Watching them do that was like that's my
00:00:19
dream. There was this jealousy, there
00:00:21
was this envy, but then almost a huge
00:00:24
amount of pride because I [ __ ] I'd
00:00:26
gone there with those guys. Like, I just
00:00:27
couldn't figure it out. And I think
00:00:29
that's just accepting that it's just
00:00:31
it's all good because there was a sport
00:00:33
right around the corner. You've chos
00:00:35
chosen an even more brutal path. You're
00:00:37
your role in team New Zealand. You're a
00:00:38
cycl holding that big mullet like a
00:00:41
magnum with the America's Cup insignia
00:00:43
on it and with my mate and I was just
00:00:45
like chuffed ass took a knee and and had
00:00:47
a big swig. Like it was Yeah, it was a
00:00:50
real special moment. We had a team sort
00:00:52
of debrief and I essentially just said
00:00:54
to them, I was like, "Hey, look, like I
00:00:56
know I'm a lot. I know I'm this
00:00:58
personality that's, you know,
00:01:00
overbearing at times or whatever, but as
00:01:02
soon as I turned up, they not only
00:01:04
accepted me, but celebrated me as a
00:01:06
person and it fixed me.
00:01:09
Yeah. I just Yeah.
00:01:19
Ken Webster, welcome to my podcast. Good
00:01:21
day. Good to be here, man. How are you?
00:01:23
You nervous or you I'm definitely
00:01:25
nervous. Yeah, it's one of those things
00:01:26
uh like you look forward to it and then
00:01:28
all of a sudden you're in here and it's
00:01:29
um I don't know like Yeah, definitely
00:01:31
nervous but good. Really excited though
00:01:33
and first podcast experience. Yeah.
00:01:36
Yeah. I mean I'm an avid listener of
00:01:38
like heaps podcast but yeah first time
00:01:39
actually going on one so yeah pretty
00:01:41
excited. Well it's it's great. This is
00:01:42
going to be a lot of fun. Um there
00:01:45
wasn't a huge amount of information uh
00:01:48
about you online but I managed to um the
00:01:50
crowdsource extract from my mates. Yeah.
00:01:53
Yeah. Yeah. And your friends were really
00:01:55
good. Michael Bre in particular, rowing
00:01:57
gold medalist. Durg Allen, your team New
00:02:00
Zealand teammate as well as coast to
00:02:02
coast legend. And um Blair Chuke, is he
00:02:05
like one of your bosses at team? I guess
00:02:07
you could call him that. He was sort of
00:02:08
in charge of our um cycle group sailing
00:02:11
team. You're sort of the one of the
00:02:12
managers um taking care of that. So I
00:02:15
guess so. Yeah. More of the boys. One of
00:02:17
the boys though, really? Yeah. Yeah. So
00:02:20
quick backstory. um a rower for 14
00:02:23
years, 10 10 of those representing New
00:02:24
Zealand. Um you started at Westlake Boys
00:02:27
High School. Um and during your school
00:02:29
years, you won three golds, five
00:02:30
silvers, and three bronze medals at
00:02:33
North Island Secondary School regatas.
00:02:35
Uh junior world rowing champion, under
00:02:37
23 world rowing champion, and trialist
00:02:40
for the Rio and Tokyo Olympics. Yes.
00:02:43
Yep, that's the one. And then retired in
00:02:45
June 20 2022. Y and trial for team New
00:02:48
Zealand December of that year. Yes.
00:02:50
Yeah, that's that's pretty much the the
00:02:52
cliff notes of it. Yeah. Yeah. And now
00:02:54
it sounds exhausting when you read it
00:02:56
out like that, right? Yeah. Long time.
00:02:58
Yeah. Yeah. Long time. It was I don't
00:03:00
know one of the most rewarding journeys
00:03:02
I've I can can't really compare it to
00:03:03
anything else, but I loved it. Like hard
00:03:06
times all through it, but yeah, it was
00:03:08
incredible really. But yet so much um
00:03:11
adversity in there as well. Like um I
00:03:13
suppose the key line in that in those
00:03:14
footnights were Rio and Tokyo Olympic
00:03:16
trialist. So you never made it to the
00:03:18
Olympic Games? No. No. That was always
00:03:20
the dream. Um it wasn't always a dream
00:03:22
since I was a kid, but it was definitely
00:03:24
a dream that I had once I was capable
00:03:27
enough to be for it to be realistic. So
00:03:29
when I made the sort of um the the under
00:03:31
23 team and um 2015, I was like, "Oh, I
00:03:35
can probably get close to being a part
00:03:36
of this this Rio team here." Um, but
00:03:39
yeah, it just eluded me both times. And
00:03:40
I guess that's sort of the the failures
00:03:44
in that was what really u I don't know
00:03:48
it it shows it showed in what I was able
00:03:50
to do later on and it really built a lot
00:03:52
of character for me cuz I didn't get
00:03:54
what I wanted if you know what I mean.
00:03:55
Like I think a lot of athletes when they
00:03:57
go out there and they work hard, some of
00:03:58
them they achieve their goals and some
00:04:00
of them don't. Most of them don't. Um,
00:04:02
and I think it's the lessons that you
00:04:04
learn out of that stuff that I really
00:04:06
really loved. Yeah. in hindsight during
00:04:08
it was pretty [ __ ]
00:04:11
There is there there's there's um so
00:04:13
much um to unpack with that so much
00:04:15
adversity that you've been through and
00:04:17
that's why um uh yeah when Bella an old
00:04:21
school friend of yours pitched you as a
00:04:22
guest I thought oh yeah it's it's
00:04:24
perfect cuz um yeah cuz life's a rocky
00:04:26
road. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. And
00:04:28
now um you've you've chos chosen an even
00:04:31
more brutal path. You're your role in
00:04:33
team New Zealand. You're a cycllor.
00:04:34
Yeah. Um, now I read a quote about this
00:04:37
online. Um, being a cycler is
00:04:40
outrageously physically demanding. The
00:04:42
role of cycller is one of the hardest
00:04:44
positions in any sport. Only the fittest
00:04:46
athletes on the planet need apply. Yeah,
00:04:49
that's quite a nice way to put it. It is
00:04:51
[ __ ] hard. Like it's it's it's one of
00:04:54
those sports that it's hard to really
00:04:56
prep or train well for because the role
00:04:59
on the boat is such a a secondary role.
00:05:02
Like obviously you got Pete, Nate, Blair
00:05:04
and Andy who are really taking control
00:05:06
of the boat and they just decide all the
00:05:08
decisions. They are really on top of
00:05:09
everything and we just sort of have to
00:05:11
manage the demands that they put on the
00:05:13
boat and so you know warm up is minimal.
00:05:16
Um predictability in every race is
00:05:17
minimal. So you kind of just have to
00:05:19
prepare for this huge big range of
00:05:20
outcomes. Some races you might you might
00:05:22
go out there and be prepared to go
00:05:24
completely maximal when it's like a 50%
00:05:26
effort or 60% effort. But other days
00:05:28
you'll go out there and you'll have no
00:05:29
warm-up and you'll just be straight into
00:05:31
100% like full FTP like max for 25 30
00:05:35
minutes and it's and you know you have
00:05:37
to sort of learn as an athlete how to
00:05:39
prepare for that and I think that's why
00:05:40
a lot of athletes from like they went
00:05:44
into team New Zealand are sort of more
00:05:45
accomplished and older athletes who've
00:05:47
already done their sport because they
00:05:50
need they need people who are like
00:05:53
who've been through a bit of [ __ ] and
00:05:55
are able to take a bit of a hit um and
00:05:57
are resilient enough to handle it. The
00:05:58
younger athletes sometimes don't have
00:06:00
the same level of grit that the older
00:06:01
ones do. I mean, yeah. So, that's sort
00:06:03
of my my perception of it. Anyway,
00:06:06
Doo Allen, who's um well well used to
00:06:09
being in pain and agony, like you said,
00:06:10
he's a coast to coast legend. Um yeah,
00:06:13
he uses the word suffering a lot. Yeah,
00:06:15
he does. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Shout
00:06:17
out D. Um my boy. Um yeah. No, he he
00:06:20
knows how to suffer. That guy is
00:06:22
probably one of he's incredible on that
00:06:24
boat. He's got such a such a good
00:06:26
combination of uh he's an incredible
00:06:28
longd distance athlete and a sort of 20
00:06:30
minute 30 minute FTP athlete and he's
00:06:32
incredible with those repeatable
00:06:34
thousand watt sprints. Um he hasn't got
00:06:36
quite got the maximal stuff that so like
00:06:38
some of the other big guys like me and
00:06:40
Marius or Louis Crosby could do but he
00:06:42
could repeat repeat repeat some
00:06:44
incredibly hard efforts and he was one
00:06:45
of the best on the boat. Yeah. So and it
00:06:48
is an awesome guy. Like that's just the
00:06:50
other thing. Well, it's um it's mutual
00:06:52
that is. So, um he he sent me a
00:06:55
threeminute voice note all all about
00:06:57
you. I should actually share it. I don't
00:06:58
know if it's private or not, but chuck
00:07:00
it out there, folks. Um uh yeah, he said
00:07:04
a couple of really nice things about
00:07:05
you. One quote was um that you're the
00:07:07
most loyal, thoughtful friend I've ever
00:07:09
had. His words. That's nice. Um, and he
00:07:12
said during um the the America's Cup
00:07:14
campaign, uh, he was dealing with some
00:07:16
personal stuff that that I won't get
00:07:18
into, but he said he sort of was keeping
00:07:20
his private stuff private and just
00:07:21
focusing on the job and you were um the
00:07:24
one that picked up on it. Yeah.
00:07:25
Something wasn't 100%. Yeah. There was
00:07:27
one day in the gym where we were on the
00:07:28
W bikes and it was just an afternoon
00:07:30
session hour spin something you know
00:07:32
just chill like sort of um zone 2 stuff
00:07:34
in the afternoon and um I saw he doesn't
00:07:37
usually get flustered and like frazzled
00:07:39
and he's really quite composed guy but I
00:07:41
saw and he got off the bike and I was
00:07:43
like what are you doing getting off the
00:07:44
bike? He doesn't usually do that like
00:07:45
he's like I'll finish my session I'll
00:07:47
die before I finish my session you know.
00:07:49
Um and he was out there in the in the um
00:07:52
in the forcourt and he was just like
00:07:54
have pacing and frustrated on the phone.
00:07:56
I was like, "Fuck, there's something up
00:07:57
here." And um I just sort of just had a
00:07:59
yarn to him. And I don't know, I just
00:08:02
Yeah, it's just being there for your
00:08:03
mates, I guess. I I guess I'm perceptive
00:08:05
and I could pick up on it, but yeah. I
00:08:06
mean, what else was I going to do? Not
00:08:08
say anything, you know? I just had to be
00:08:10
there for him. There's no other option.
00:08:12
Well, good on you. Well, it mean a lot
00:08:13
to him. He really appreciated it. Yeah.
00:08:15
Yeah. Well, yeah, I appreciate his
00:08:16
friendship. Like, [ __ ] he's I just And
00:08:19
especially I'd say that that's universal
00:08:21
for all the guys in the team. Like it
00:08:23
just the group that I managed to be a
00:08:25
part of was it was incredible. Like
00:08:27
every single person had such an
00:08:29
interesting personality and skill set
00:08:31
and and approach to training and life
00:08:33
and we all came from such different
00:08:34
angles of life and it was just and and
00:08:37
not even just athletes, everyone else in
00:08:38
the team. I just I just I loved every
00:08:40
like I'd say that the outcome of the of
00:08:42
the race, the last race like in rowing,
00:08:45
the outcome of the last race is
00:08:46
generally the most exciting part because
00:08:48
you have all this hard hard training and
00:08:49
you're really in the in the dumps and
00:08:50
you're really working hard. you're
00:08:51
tired. It was the same with team New
00:08:54
Zealand, but the enjoyment of that final
00:08:56
outcome was spread over the two years I
00:08:58
was in the team. Like I I just since the
00:09:00
day I turned up, I was like, I'm [ __ ]
00:09:02
all in here. And I just loved it.
00:09:05
Absolutely loved it. Yeah. Your your
00:09:08
friend um Michael Bre, who's a rowing
00:09:11
gold medalist, um he said he said,
00:09:14
"Yeah, you you loved um being in the
00:09:15
environment as soon as you were in
00:09:16
there." Not just the training, but even
00:09:18
doing [ __ ] jobs. described it when you
00:09:21
were just like driving around picking up
00:09:23
bits of sailing equipment or whatever.
00:09:25
You were just like fizzing about being
00:09:27
in that environment. Yeah. So it was
00:09:28
like our job as a cycles was obviously
00:09:31
to do our training and get on the bike
00:09:33
and perform. But we had the two years of
00:09:36
the whole campaign. So we had to also
00:09:39
contribute in other ways. And the way
00:09:40
that we did that was becoming
00:09:41
essentially like apprentices in the
00:09:43
shed. So like it just sweeping floors,
00:09:45
vacuuming, cleaning up after people,
00:09:47
tidying area. We had our shore manager
00:09:50
Shawn Reagan who's like the one of the
00:09:51
coolest men I've ever met. Um and he was
00:09:54
sort of our go-to guy boss on the floor
00:09:57
and um I was probably in Oakuckland uh
00:10:00
and didn't me and Louis Crosby were
00:10:02
probably the most in Oakuckland and I I
00:10:04
sort of decided that and I knew the
00:10:05
roads quite well cuz I grew up here. So
00:10:07
I was I was the guy that was in the in
00:10:09
the utes doing the courier jobs every
00:10:11
day. So, I'd get out and do a run over
00:10:13
to the Northshore before lunch and the
00:10:14
run our south before um after lunch. And
00:10:16
that was picking up all the custom
00:10:18
equipment that we needed for the boat to
00:10:20
to obviously get it working cuz you
00:10:21
couldn't trust the career services cuz
00:10:22
at first took too long and they might
00:10:24
lose it. So, and all these parts are so
00:10:26
incredibly intricate and special that
00:10:28
they need to be delivered with
00:10:29
certainty. So, I was the guy that we
00:10:30
that would just go pick it all up and
00:10:32
deliver it. Yeah, lots of fun and cool
00:10:34
to see like the suppliers and all the
00:10:37
different intricacies of of of the of
00:10:39
the the supply chain operation as well.
00:10:41
But yeah, it was it was cool to sort of
00:10:44
see that side of the of the team. But
00:10:46
from what I can gather, this is just
00:10:47
your your personality type. You're just
00:10:49
relentlessly positive and able to find
00:10:51
the silver lining. And yeah, I don't I
00:10:56
think I learned that honestly as a kid.
00:10:58
I wasn't particularly like that. I I
00:11:00
might have been. I can't remember to be
00:11:02
honest. Um yeah. Yeah. Okay. What what
00:11:05
else have we got? We we've got some low
00:11:06
hanging fruit before we drill down into
00:11:08
the rowing. Um so Doo Allen said you're
00:11:11
the the king of impersonations. Um he
00:11:13
said you ask him to do someone, he can
00:11:15
do it. Um and he gave me a few names. Um
00:11:18
uh President Trump. Donald Trump. We
00:11:22
freaking love that guy. Donald Trump. I
00:11:25
don't know. It's hard to get on a roll,
00:11:27
especially in front of cameras. But
00:11:29
yeah, it's it's one of those things I
00:11:30
just sort of bring out in the group. It
00:11:32
just sort of I think it's a morale
00:11:33
thing. I enjoy doing it. When I was
00:11:36
young, I sort of started doing
00:11:37
impersonations to sort of make the
00:11:38
family happy. Like there's a bit of
00:11:40
like, you know, there's a bit of stress
00:11:41
and a bit of, you know, anxiety in
00:11:43
families always as you're growing up.
00:11:44
And I was sort of the court jester, the
00:11:46
youngest of four kids, and I just sort
00:11:48
of ran along the back making jokes and
00:11:49
being silly. And that was my sort of
00:11:52
outlet to feel validated and feel loved.
00:11:55
I guess when I made a joke and everyone
00:11:56
laughed, I felt good about myself. So, I
00:11:58
just kept doing that as I got older and
00:12:00
older and I've just love doing
00:12:02
impressions and taking the piss. So,
00:12:03
that's kind of that's kind of where it
00:12:05
came from. Okay. Um, Matthew McConn. Oh,
00:12:08
Matthew McConn. Like doing that one. Oh,
00:12:11
I haven't You caught me off guard there.
00:12:13
D even said this. He said you might
00:12:15
throw him a name and he might have to go
00:12:16
to the bathroom for five minutes to
00:12:18
listen because I usually have to think
00:12:19
about it before I'm getting into it.
00:12:21
Okay. What about um uh Peter Berling?
00:12:24
Oh, Pete. Yeah. Good Pete. Yeah. Uh good
00:12:27
day guys. Yeah. Uh coffee. Yeah.
00:12:30
Cuz on the I just we're out for dinner
00:12:32
one evening um just casually in
00:12:34
Barcelona and he he was we was having a
00:12:37
conversation and Pete was just like yeah
00:12:39
copy copy. Yeah. Like out of the boat.
00:12:42
And I as a new athlete into a sailing
00:12:44
sort of team I was like why would you
00:12:46
say copy in a that is such a crazy thing
00:12:48
to say in like a in a colloquial chill
00:12:50
social setting. And and it's just become
00:12:52
a part of my whole vernacular now. So
00:12:54
when we were on the boat actually we had
00:12:56
um our comms was only linked up between
00:12:58
the cycles and the sailors couldn't
00:13:00
actually hear us. Um that was only
00:13:02
towards the very end of the campaign and
00:13:04
um we would just when obviously when it
00:13:07
was a more relaxed time we were just
00:13:08
sort of chilled sailing around or
00:13:10
sitting on the water. Um the boys would
00:13:13
talk and we just kind of lowkey just
00:13:15
sort of like take the piss in the
00:13:16
background just to keep the morale high
00:13:18
in the cycles like me and Simon
00:13:19
Vanvelovven especially. Yeah. He's Oh,
00:13:23
yeah. Sure. There's It's a star stud
00:13:26
cyclist. So, Simon, who's um like an
00:13:28
Olympic um track cyclist. Um there's
00:13:31
yourself with your rowing pedigree,
00:13:33
Hamish Bond. Yeah, Bondi. Um who's the
00:13:35
SAS guy? There's Maris Vanderpole. One
00:13:37
of the most impressive dudes you've ever
00:13:39
seen. He's like built like a brick [ __ ]
00:13:41
house. Like he's just like shoulders out
00:13:42
here and one of the nicest guys ever.
00:13:44
And yeah, you'll never see him sitting
00:13:46
down, but he'll always be kneeling. If
00:13:48
we ever need to do anything, he's
00:13:49
kneeling. He's ready. He's poised and
00:13:50
he's off. He's ready to go. Why? I think
00:13:52
it's I think it's an army thing, but he
00:13:54
cuz he was in the SAS, you know. I don't
00:13:56
know what it is, but he he's always
00:13:57
whenever we're having a team chat or
00:13:59
sitting. He's just like kneeling. He's
00:14:00
like ready, right? Like Gogggins like
00:14:02
sitting is too comfortable. I mean, it's
00:14:04
not too far from really like cuz this
00:14:05
SAS stuff they talk about their packs
00:14:07
that they'd have and the sort of
00:14:08
training they do and that sort of
00:14:10
selection week. Sounds grueling, man.
00:14:12
I've talked to Marius a bit about it and
00:14:14
[ __ ] it was it's crazy the [ __ ] they do.
00:14:17
Yeah. It's like almost like tempting for
00:14:19
somebody like an athlete to want to try
00:14:21
and do to see if they're capable, but
00:14:23
also the most terrifying thing ever. So,
00:14:25
I don't know. Yeah. I suppose it goes
00:14:27
back to that suffering word as well,
00:14:28
doesn't it? Yeah. Um, yeah. What else
00:14:30
have we got? Um, oh, while working for
00:14:33
team New Zealand, is it you started
00:14:34
doing med school, but you dropped out
00:14:35
and switched to law? No, no, no. So, I
00:14:37
wanted to be I wanted to do meds since I
00:14:39
was a young kid. I actually had a elbow
00:14:41
reconstruction when I was 5 years old.
00:14:43
Right. So, I had like I've got a big
00:14:44
scar in here and I had to I went into
00:14:47
surgery um and it and it came out and my
00:14:50
elbow was at like a completely wrong
00:14:51
angle. So, they had to rebre my arm like
00:14:53
over 6 months. So, this is my actually
00:14:55
my dominant arm in rowing too which is
00:14:57
quite funny. It still works pretty good.
00:14:58
Um so I wanted to be a surgeon ever
00:15:01
since I was young. Um and then when I
00:15:02
got to high school I was like [ __ ]
00:15:04
that's way too hard. So especially with
00:15:06
sport I was like ah no buck that. And
00:15:08
sport was going well. So I then my old
00:15:10
man's a lawyer and I was like I quite
00:15:12
like English and chatting and like you
00:15:14
know I understand people relatively
00:15:15
well. So I started law at uni in 2014.
00:15:18
Yeah. Finished it. Yeah. You finished it
00:15:21
dur while working for team New Zealand
00:15:23
getting ready for the America's Cup.
00:15:24
Yeah. Yeah. So my first six months with
00:15:26
the team. I sort of negotiated with the
00:15:28
boss um Shu to um to take the first
00:15:31
semester. I only had I had three days a
00:15:33
week at work and two days a week at uni.
00:15:35
and I'd still train full-time, but I
00:15:37
wouldn't be in the shed for those two
00:15:39
days a week. So, I'd sort of train in
00:15:41
the morning and then head up to AUT um
00:15:43
to do my to do my uh my last four papers
00:15:47
and then yeah, got that finished um just
00:15:49
before we went to Barcelona the first
00:15:51
year, 2023. Awesome. Yeah. And you Yeah.
00:15:54
You never really had a chance to do
00:15:55
anything other than law, right? So, you
00:15:57
you're a fourth generation. Yeah. Fourth
00:15:59
generational Simon will love that. Yeah.
00:16:01
Fourth generational lawyer. Yeah. So my
00:16:02
dad um grandad and great granddad. Yeah.
00:16:05
Yeah. Yeah. I didn't really know that
00:16:06
until I don't know like a couple years
00:16:08
ago and dad was like no it's there's
00:16:09
there's there's four generations of that
00:16:11
now. There's a there's a firm in town
00:16:12
called Webs and Malcolm Kilpatrick and
00:16:14
that was my my grandfather's firm and my
00:16:17
dad wasn't even allowed to to work
00:16:19
there. Yeah. So yeah. Are you going to
00:16:21
use the law degree like what happens
00:16:23
now? Blair Chuke um I spoke he's in LA
00:16:26
for the sale GP at the moment. He gave
00:16:28
me a call last night and we were talking
00:16:29
about you. He was explaining how how it
00:16:31
works and he said it's tough for the
00:16:32
Cyclones because it's almost like um you
00:16:34
contract employees. Yeah. So, uh
00:16:37
America's Cup was last year and then
00:16:39
you're not needed for another couple of
00:16:40
years. So, you got like two years. It's
00:16:42
so uncertain like because they don't
00:16:44
know what the class rules are going to
00:16:45
be. They don't know what the boat's
00:16:46
going to be and therefore they don't
00:16:48
know what the requirements on the team's
00:16:50
going to be and and what personnel
00:16:51
they'll need. So, essentially my job is
00:16:53
is non-existent until they decide so
00:16:56
many more decisions further up the line.
00:16:58
And I'm I'm totally understood that from
00:17:00
day one. Um, so what do you do? You have
00:17:02
to put your life on limbo for a Well, I
00:17:04
I mean some people can see it like that,
00:17:06
but I sort of see it like I can sort of
00:17:08
I've got an opportunity now to sort of
00:17:10
get my career and my long-term plans
00:17:14
going. Like I finished my law degree in
00:17:15
2023 and I graduated then I was like
00:17:18
cool, relaxed with the team, enjoyed
00:17:19
myself and starting this year I got
00:17:22
after the team finished um up last year
00:17:24
I started my professional legal studies
00:17:26
the start of this year. So, it's an
00:17:27
18week course to get admitted to the
00:17:29
bar. So, I'm going to go go to the high
00:17:30
court, put the wig on, put the cape on
00:17:32
with my old man, and and um and go
00:17:34
practice law before I And also the thing
00:17:38
is there's no guarantees on the team
00:17:39
again. It's all so up in the air. So,
00:17:43
you just sort of like continue your life
00:17:45
and go hard and keep training and try to
00:17:47
keep fit and do the best you can and
00:17:49
then make sure you're in a good position
00:17:50
when the opportunity comes around again
00:17:52
if it does. Yeah, it's again, it's the
00:17:55
glass half full thing. It's such a good
00:17:56
way of looking at it, but it's um yeah,
00:17:59
like the uncertainty would drive most
00:18:00
people [ __ ] crazy. The fact that you
00:18:02
can't you're it seems like you're an all
00:18:04
gas, no brakes kind of guy, but you
00:18:05
can't you got one foot in this, you
00:18:07
know, office career and another foot
00:18:09
still in the in the water. Yeah,
00:18:11
definitely. It's um I I just see it as
00:18:14
like if you prepare yourself well enough
00:18:16
as a young person then and I don't
00:18:19
really have other anyone other than my
00:18:20
family to sort of help me for this
00:18:21
because I sort of found myself in my
00:18:23
late 20s going, "Oh, [ __ ] I've done
00:18:25
that. I've doing my law degree and I'm
00:18:27
really nearly finished it. I may as well
00:18:29
keep doing it. And then I've got this
00:18:31
potential of like, do I want to go be a
00:18:33
lawyer? Do you want to do business? Do I
00:18:35
want to do be an athlete? Work with team
00:18:36
New Zealand. I was like, [ __ ] there's
00:18:37
so many choices. And and I think if you
00:18:40
work really hard when you're young, even
00:18:41
if you can't really see the outcome of
00:18:43
it or or the potential outcomes, if it
00:18:46
feels like kind of the right thing to do
00:18:47
and it doesn't feel like contrary to
00:18:48
your conscience or whatever, then it's
00:18:50
just go for it. Yeah. Yeah. And it's
00:18:53
working. Yeah. [ __ ] Seems like it
00:18:55
you've creamed a lot in. How How old are
00:18:57
you? 20. I'm 30 now. [ __ ] At the 30,
00:18:59
you know. Calm down, grandad. Start of
00:19:01
the year. Some grays coming in like a
00:19:03
bit of the beard, you know. Um, yeah.
00:19:06
Couple couple more bits of low hanging
00:19:07
fruit. Um, so you're a collector of
00:19:09
cars. You've got a yellow Lamborghini.
00:19:11
There it is. I've tried to keep that one
00:19:14
on. Yeah. Yeah. What are you doing with
00:19:16
a yellow Lamborghini? I mean, when you
00:19:18
say it like that, it sounds bad, but um
00:19:20
I I Okay, we're going to go for it. Um,
00:19:24
so I found myself in a position where I
00:19:27
could invest in something and I didn't
00:19:29
want to over capitalize and buy another
00:19:30
house. I have already own a house which
00:19:32
is incredibly lucky. Grew up very like
00:19:34
it's it's a lovely thing to have as a
00:19:36
young person and I know it's not easy
00:19:38
for everyone to do and I found myself in
00:19:39
a very like um, you know, fortuitous
00:19:41
position and I was like [ __ ] I'm going
00:19:43
to see if I can you know capitalize on
00:19:45
this and build a bit more wealth. And my
00:19:47
I've grown up with cars. Like the cars
00:19:50
has been like probably the one main
00:19:51
pillar in my family. Like my old man's a
00:19:53
collector. He did, you know, race he's
00:19:55
he's a race car driver. He did rally
00:19:57
rally driving. He did the target rally.
00:19:58
He's done track track driving. He's had
00:20:01
epic cars around the house since I was a
00:20:03
young boy. Um so I know that and I've
00:20:07
got a lot of good friends that are the
00:20:08
same. Um one particular good friend
00:20:10
James who lives down in Patitonga. So
00:20:12
just down in the he owns a macadamia
00:20:14
orchard which is one of the coolest
00:20:15
things ever. Um, and he sort of we sort
00:20:18
of yanned about it and thought, let's
00:20:20
let's try and see if we can build a bit
00:20:21
of I don't know, build a bit of wealth,
00:20:23
if that's what you're going to call it.
00:20:25
Um, and invest in something really cool
00:20:27
that I can actually look at it and look
00:20:28
at in the garage and like go for drives
00:20:30
in and be proud of and learn learn about
00:20:33
bits of myself that I probably wasn't
00:20:34
that comfortable with. Like owning a car
00:20:36
like that is [ __ ] it's intense, man.
00:20:38
What What do you mean learning bits
00:20:40
about yourself? Oh, like you drive down
00:20:41
the road in that car and people assume
00:20:42
you're a [ __ ] cuz it's a yellow
00:20:44
Lamborghini.
00:20:45
and it makes a shitload of noise like
00:20:48
and and if you drive it anything other
00:20:49
than like an Anna, it's just popping and
00:20:51
banging and like so you have to be you
00:20:54
have to be okay with who you are as a
00:20:56
person and and also just like know that
00:20:59
what I what I did to get there and own
00:21:01
that thing is it was done on my back and
00:21:03
from a lot of people helping me and I
00:21:05
and I will never take that for granted
00:21:06
and something that I'm incredibly
00:21:08
grateful for. If I wanted to buy a car
00:21:09
that was purely for my own interest, it
00:21:11
wouldn't have been a yellow Lambo, trust
00:21:12
me. But owning one's pretty sick and
00:21:16
like you're trying that shoe on for a
00:21:17
little bit. It's kind of fun, especially
00:21:18
at my age. Yeah. But you you you're such
00:21:21
a big guy and you love big dogs as well.
00:21:22
You love Leon bers, which is one of the
00:21:24
biggest dog breeds in the world. Yeah.
00:21:26
I'm just I I without seeing it, I'm just
00:21:29
imagining you like a a 2 m tall dude and
00:21:31
a gigantic dog in the passenger seat.
00:21:33
Yeah. It's a crazy crazy image. Yeah.
00:21:35
Know, it's a crazy image. It's uh I I
00:21:37
tend to I ask my friends, I don't tend
00:21:39
to do things by halves. If I'm going to
00:21:40
do it, let's [ __ ] do it, you know?
00:21:42
and and um yeah, from from what I know
00:21:44
from um being mates with Blair Chuke for
00:21:46
a while, it's like um team New Zealand's
00:21:48
like a it's a very lowkey sort of team
00:21:50
like they're really big on like the you
00:21:52
know the staying grounded and sort of
00:21:54
like a no [ __ ] policy sort of thing.
00:21:56
You're not pulling up to the base in the
00:21:57
yellow. Okay, there's I did do that once
00:21:59
or twice and I learned my lesson very
00:22:02
quickly. I did it once but I was talking
00:22:04
I I took I didn't bring it into work the
00:22:06
first first day. I took it and parked in
00:22:08
the parking building and I told some of
00:22:10
it some of the boys about it and they
00:22:11
said I'll bring it in and let us see it
00:22:13
and I bought it in and that was fine and
00:22:15
then a couple like maybe a week later I
00:22:17
bought it in and I parked it outside the
00:22:20
front of the gym and [ __ ] I got accosted
00:22:22
in the group chat in the in the team
00:22:24
chat. I just got laid into. And for fair
00:22:26
enough, man. Like I I I totally
00:22:29
understand the the team culture and I
00:22:30
don't want to I never want to be
00:22:32
contrary to that. Like the the way the
00:22:35
team operates and the and the and the
00:22:37
and the values that they have, I think
00:22:38
are incredibly special. And for for some
00:22:41
dick young [ __ ] young guy to come in
00:22:43
and think he could do it, you know,
00:22:44
starts earning a bit of money and thinks
00:22:45
he can just bring his his dumb car into
00:22:47
work, like that's I I completely
00:22:50
understand that. and I just reigned it
00:22:51
in so quick and I'm like, "No, not
00:22:53
happening again." Um, but it was kind of
00:22:56
funny in hindsight. And also like what
00:22:58
what you were saying before like you see
00:23:00
the the car and you immediately
00:23:03
um
00:23:05
picture the person that's in it or or
00:23:07
create an image. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which
00:23:09
is not necessarily not necessarily true.
00:23:11
No, I mean there are people who own
00:23:13
there's every kind of person owns every
00:23:15
kind of car, you know, and cars have
00:23:17
this really like, you know, pigeon hole
00:23:19
idea and I get it like that's common.
00:23:21
You see go down Pon Road, you see some
00:23:23
some green Lambo hooning around and yes,
00:23:25
you you think he's he's a [ __ ] But it's
00:23:27
um I think that's also just our own
00:23:29
stereotypes that we get caught up in and
00:23:31
like I like to prove everyone wrong one
00:23:33
person at a time. pull over to the gas
00:23:35
station, fill up the car, have a really
00:23:37
nice conversation with someone who's
00:23:38
interested in it or just I don't know or
00:23:41
just taking my friends for like a lot of
00:23:42
my good friends have driven it and I've
00:23:44
really tried to share it around and I've
00:23:45
driven it heaps and I don't know it's
00:23:47
just taught me a lot about myself and
00:23:49
people probably think oh you're [ __ ]
00:23:50
whatever but like you know I you can
00:23:52
think what you like. I've really enjoyed
00:23:53
it and I've learned a shitload about my
00:23:55
own personality and my own like like
00:23:58
insecurities from from even having it.
00:24:00
Yeah. What are your insecurities? Oh far
00:24:03
out. What's the list? Um,
00:24:07
ah, man, I was huge people pleaser for
00:24:09
the longest time. Just I I had so much
00:24:12
of my own selfworth, but caught up in
00:24:15
what other people thought of me. And I
00:24:16
that really worked in a team environment
00:24:19
cuz I really loved committing all myself
00:24:21
to the team, but sometimes I would go I
00:24:23
would sort of empty my own tank before I
00:24:24
was actually capable of um, you know,
00:24:27
performing. So, it was kind of
00:24:28
unhelpful. Body image stuff, huge. I was
00:24:31
a massive kid growing up. I was like
00:24:33
probably a head and a half tall in every
00:24:35
kid and twice the weight of every kid
00:24:36
growing up, especially up until like
00:24:38
high school. So, exclusion, bullying,
00:24:42
like I got like heaps of stories of when
00:24:44
I was young just like completely being
00:24:46
excluded from every single friend group
00:24:48
and just being incredibly upset the
00:24:51
whole of primary school because of it.
00:24:52
And I had some really really really
00:24:55
great um teachers. One one teacher in
00:24:58
particular in year three. Um I was just
00:25:01
beating kids up left front and center.
00:25:02
Like they would have a go at me or they
00:25:05
would exclude me and I'd just run at
00:25:08
them cuz I was like as like an
00:25:10
8-year-old I was probably like 70 kilos
00:25:12
or something. Like I was massive and
00:25:15
quite chubby and you know funny looking
00:25:16
dude. And I'd just run at them and if I
00:25:18
could catch them I just grab them and
00:25:19
throw them. And it was like completely
00:25:22
unhelpful like especially for trying to
00:25:24
teach me some good social skills. And um
00:25:27
there was this teacher Mrs. Low who um
00:25:30
she she essentially pulled me aside and
00:25:33
taught me at an incredibly early age
00:25:35
that that that's not how we do things
00:25:38
and we need to control that um that
00:25:42
emotion or that frustration, that anger
00:25:44
and not do it. So, what I'd essentially
00:25:46
have this book um and it was like a
00:25:49
jurised book and I'd get gold stars
00:25:51
every time I wouldn't beat the kid up
00:25:52
for the week.
00:25:54
It sounds ridiculous, but I was I was
00:25:56
such an upset kid, man. I was and I'd
00:25:58
always get like I'd always get in huge
00:26:01
amounts of trouble with all the staff at
00:26:03
the school because these kids would just
00:26:04
run to the to the to the teachers and
00:26:06
say, "Oh, Cam hit me." And it was just
00:26:07
like, "Well, of course I did." And I hit
00:26:09
them pretty hard. Um,
00:26:12
and but we were were you were you a
00:26:13
bully or was it like a self-defense? No,
00:26:15
it was I just felt No, it was it was I
00:26:18
was trying to to include myself in the
00:26:20
in the in the group and trying to join
00:26:21
the games on the on the playground. Like
00:26:23
I remember going up to a playground at
00:26:25
at one point and going um and one of the
00:26:28
kids saying, "Oh, anyone whose name
00:26:29
starts with with the letter C can't play
00:26:31
with us." And I know I'm bringing up
00:26:32
[ __ ] from a childhood, but this is stuff
00:26:33
I've had to figure out, you know. Oh,
00:26:35
and that stuff that stuff scars stick
00:26:37
with you. And unless you go back and
00:26:39
figure it out, it just keeps [ __ ]
00:26:40
with you until you get older. And it
00:26:41
like it comes out in weird ways. So like
00:26:43
I was the only kid who had the letter
00:26:45
name starting with C. And I was like, it
00:26:47
was a a pointed thing at me. So you're
00:26:49
not included. And I've always like that
00:26:51
exclusion that I felt as a kid was so
00:26:53
like it just it sort of haunted me and
00:26:56
it sort of made me that's why I love
00:26:57
being a part of teams because the teams
00:26:59
is means inclusion and inclusion means I
00:27:01
feel safe and good about myself. So
00:27:04
yeah, that was um yeah, and it was the
00:27:07
the the I guess the violence or the the
00:27:09
the physical nature of what I was like
00:27:11
as a kid was always as a result of just
00:27:12
me just getting to the end of my tether.
00:27:14
Like people just put a poke poke poke
00:27:16
poke poke poke and I just blow up, you
00:27:18
know. Yeah. Well, thanks for sharing
00:27:22
that. I mean, you you've definitely done
00:27:23
a lot of work actually. Um, Doo Doo uh
00:27:28
um he he he said there's 150 people in
00:27:30
team New Zealand and you had say that
00:27:32
across the board you'd probably be
00:27:33
widely regarded as uh the most popular.
00:27:36
[ __ ] Okay. Yeah, that's a nice thing
00:27:38
for him to say. I asked Blair. Blair
00:27:40
said you'd be number two behind behind
00:27:42
him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's
00:27:44
a huge thing to say though, eh? Oh, I
00:27:46
mean I just love the people. That's the
00:27:48
thing. I I love every single like every
00:27:52
interaction I have like going into the
00:27:53
shed in the morning after training and
00:27:55
having breakfast was like a highlight.
00:27:56
I'd just go around the around the
00:27:58
different trades. We had the the rig
00:27:59
bait taking care of all the the mast and
00:28:01
the and the rig and and then we had the
00:28:03
boat builders then we had the the
00:28:05
composite guys and then you know the
00:28:06
engineers and I just really thrived off
00:28:09
that amount of energy cuz there's so
00:28:10
many people and if you have good
00:28:12
interactions at the very start of your
00:28:14
day then far out like it starts off so
00:28:16
well. Yeah. and it just boosts your
00:28:19
whole day.
00:28:22
Let's go back and talk about some of the
00:28:24
rowing stuff. So um at the front of the
00:28:25
podcast I mentioned some of the
00:28:27
achievements um at a young age. So you
00:28:29
so you were sort of naturally good.
00:28:31
Yeah, I was I was quite a big guy as as
00:28:33
a start of third form or year n I was
00:28:35
like 96 kilos and like 6'1 6'2 and yeah
00:28:40
I was I wasn't much smaller than this to
00:28:41
be honest. Um and my brother um he was a
00:28:45
he's a rower at Westlake as well and he
00:28:47
he was he was you know Marty Cup
00:28:49
participant. He raced in the Marty Cup
00:28:51
and um and I sort of always saw that as
00:28:53
like a quite an awesome thing and he as
00:28:56
ever since I was young he was always
00:28:57
like Cam you're big you should row or
00:28:58
you're going to row. I didn't have a
00:29:00
choice. Um I was just doing what I was
00:29:02
told really. Um and a lot of my family
00:29:04
friends um you know my brother and his
00:29:07
one of his good friends Chris Cole he
00:29:09
was a rower at the same time at Westlake
00:29:10
and that whole family the Cole family
00:29:12
and my family were you know quite good
00:29:14
family friends and um and it was just
00:29:16
like a it was a train that I was just on
00:29:18
you know I didn't I didn't choose it. It
00:29:19
was just something that was happening
00:29:20
and um yeah I ended up actually being
00:29:23
quite good at it. Not it wasn't a
00:29:25
natural thing. I had a lot of there was
00:29:28
a shitload of things I had to like
00:29:31
confront before I actually got quite
00:29:33
good. I was naturally a pretty lazy kid,
00:29:35
just, you know, big, strong, never had
00:29:37
to try that hard at anything like
00:29:38
physically because it just came to me
00:29:40
naturally um in terms of the the
00:29:43
strength and effort side. But then when
00:29:45
work ethic came into it, I was just
00:29:47
horrendous. Like I was like, I don't
00:29:48
want to try hard. I'm a big big [ __ ]
00:29:50
you know? So I just um it was literally
00:29:53
like chipping away like I sort of carve
00:29:56
the the work ethic out of stone, you
00:29:58
know? It was like from from my first
00:30:00
year it was like extra sessions like on
00:30:03
the URG a lot um to try and sort of get
00:30:07
used to what it felt like working hard
00:30:09
and then also starting to enjoy that
00:30:11
feeling and then get comfortable in that
00:30:12
feeling. I mean you must know it with
00:30:13
your running like you get to a point
00:30:15
where you're no longer pushing [ __ ]
00:30:18
uphill when you're actually sort of in
00:30:19
this nice um zone where you can just
00:30:21
maintain the pace and it took ages to
00:30:25
get there cuz I just was just lazy. But
00:30:28
this is your teenage years though,
00:30:29
right? When you're still at school.
00:30:30
Yeah. Yeah. Everyone's a little lazy at
00:30:32
that point. Yeah. But it it carried I
00:30:33
carried on. It was a theme that carried
00:30:35
on well into my sort of in terms of the
00:30:38
rowing sense. The work ethic and rowing
00:30:40
was was something that they that coaches
00:30:41
were consistently um needing for me to
00:30:44
work on until I was about I really com I
00:30:47
really sort of put it nail in the coffin
00:30:50
around 2014 2015 when I started at the
00:30:54
regional performance center here in
00:30:55
Oakland with some of the coaches there.
00:30:56
It was it was crazy hard program and you
00:30:59
just and all of a sudden you just like
00:31:01
came over the hump and you could
00:31:02
actually do all the training and you had
00:31:04
a good work ethic and I sort of made it
00:31:05
one of my strengths at that point cuz
00:31:07
I'd just done it for so long and it was
00:31:08
just fighting that fight for so long and
00:31:10
I was so angry about it when people said
00:31:12
oh Cam's being a [ __ ] I was like [ __ ]
00:31:14
So I I hated hated feeling that like
00:31:16
accusation of being a [ __ ] so I just
00:31:18
fought against it the whole time and
00:31:20
just worked my ass off. So it was fuel
00:31:22
worked as fuel. Yeah. Yeah. And once you
00:31:24
get on the path of that, like proving
00:31:26
someone wrong, it's kind of infectious,
00:31:28
man. Like you're just like, "Look at
00:31:29
that result. Yeah, [ __ ] you. Look at
00:31:31
that result." You know, you keep proving
00:31:32
them wrong and it's Yeah. It's really
00:31:34
good. Yeah. So, you retired from rowing
00:31:36
three years ago. Um, and then there was,
00:31:38
from what I can gather, there was like a
00:31:39
gap of maybe five or six months before
00:31:41
team New Zealand came along. Yeah. Um,
00:31:43
what would you be doing now if you quit
00:31:45
row? What did you see yourself doing
00:31:46
when you retired from R? Um well
00:31:48
actually funny you say that but just
00:31:49
because I I talked to Joe Sullivan who
00:31:53
was a cycllor and a grinder um on the
00:31:55
2021 and 2017 campaign on the on team
00:31:58
New Zealand and a rowing legend um first
00:32:01
of all I watched him when I was in the
00:32:03
junior world champs I watched them win
00:32:04
gold of the Olympics one of the most
00:32:06
impressive races ever you know about
00:32:07
that one like Joe Sullivan and Nathan
00:32:10
Nathan I've had Joe on the podcast
00:32:12
honestly like [ __ ] it's such a cool race
00:32:14
to watch um but yeah so he'd been in
00:32:17
touch with me uh during the 2021 camp or
00:32:20
before the 2021 campaign just sort of
00:32:22
canvasing to see if I'd be interested in
00:32:24
joining the team. So, and when I was
00:32:27
finishing up with a rowing, I I can't
00:32:31
remember exactly the timeline, but there
00:32:32
was an email that was sent out not long
00:32:35
after I retired, like a month or two
00:32:36
maybe um from Kim um Kim Simpingham,
00:32:40
who's the the SNC at um at team New
00:32:43
Zealand, and he was sort of putting a
00:32:46
call out to all the people that sort of
00:32:49
from the different sports and NSOs that
00:32:53
they thought might be good for the role
00:32:55
and it was there was a five or six group
00:32:57
of us from rowing and then I don't know
00:32:59
whoever else from other sports so I kind
00:33:01
of knew that there was something there
00:33:04
and I knew that I needed to get on to it
00:33:06
but I also had my degree to finish and I
00:33:07
was sort of like I was just and just
00:33:09
enjoying my time so I' I'd have days in
00:33:11
I'd have three half the week in in
00:33:13
Cambridge then half the week in Oakland
00:33:15
sort of yeah it was it was a good time
00:33:17
but it was a bit um yeah all over the
00:33:19
place really yeah why why the decision
00:33:22
to retire from rowing you put you put a
00:33:24
massive post up on Instagram which is um
00:33:26
it's it's really nice but it talks about
00:33:27
all your achievements um and doesn't
00:33:30
sort of highlight the the the
00:33:31
disappointments but yeah was it like a
00:33:33
bittersweet time? Yeah. Um well the
00:33:36
whole the whole period I guess from you
00:33:39
could say the period from 2018 onwards
00:33:41
was quite bittersweet with some nice
00:33:43
with some really lovely moments like I
00:33:44
did a pretty solid rowing career. I'd
00:33:46
had junior world championship gold and I
00:33:49
got th fourth the next year in the same
00:33:51
boat class and I'd been in the RPC
00:33:53
system and I was sort of gradually doing
00:33:54
this but times were getting better and I
00:33:56
was like this is mean I'm really
00:33:57
enjoying this. Got silver at under 23s
00:34:00
2015 then gold under 23s in 2016. I was
00:34:02
like we are on here like I'm doing well
00:34:04
at this. Um then made this New Zealand
00:34:08
summer squad team for 2017. And so it
00:34:10
was like this really steady steady build
00:34:11
and I was you know improving really
00:34:13
well. And then in 2018 the men's eight
00:34:16
uh that I was a part of uh got last at
00:34:18
the World Champs and that was like my I
00:34:20
was in my best physical condition I'd
00:34:22
ever been in. Strongest, fittest,
00:34:23
leanest, you know, everything was
00:34:25
covered and then I got dropped from the
00:34:27
team after that. And that decision, you
00:34:30
know, I been personally I've come to
00:34:32
terms with it but I think it was
00:34:34
marginal but you know what are you going
00:34:35
to do? Someone else makes a decision. um
00:34:38
and essentially got dropped from the
00:34:40
team and had to figure out um how to get
00:34:43
my way back. Essentially, there's no
00:34:44
option of not of quitting cuz was anyone
00:34:46
else dropped? Yeah. Yeah, there was like
00:34:48
a group of four of us from the team. Um
00:34:51
and yes, I kept I think I can't remember
00:34:54
exactly. I think it was four of us that
00:34:55
got dropped and we had to sort of
00:34:57
operate out of the the the regional
00:34:58
center down in Wetto and um and it was a
00:35:02
blow because I was like [ __ ] I'm in my
00:35:05
best condition and we did perform poorly
00:35:07
but I mean I and that was our
00:35:10
responsibility but it was a shared
00:35:11
responsibility amongst everybody and
00:35:13
they brought in a whole lot of younger
00:35:14
athletes that some of them you know have
00:35:16
had since gone very quickly into after
00:35:18
they joined the program and and there
00:35:21
was guys like me and some others that
00:35:23
really gritted it out and stayed and and
00:35:25
trained in outside of the building and
00:35:27
outside of the high performance program
00:35:28
down in Cambridge to really get our way
00:35:31
back in. And I sort of see that as sort
00:35:33
of my sort of one of the adversity arcs
00:35:36
that I sort of had to go through to
00:35:38
really learn who I am as a person. Like
00:35:42
being excluded from the team sort of
00:35:44
really brought back to that [ __ ] when I
00:35:45
was younger. I was like, man, I no one
00:35:47
values me anymore. Not not getting paid
00:35:49
to do what I need to do here. um
00:35:51
struggling financially and mentally and
00:35:54
and all of your selfworth is really
00:35:55
focused on how you row a boat and that's
00:35:58
kind of how it needs to be because
00:36:00
rowing is your livelihood and you want
00:36:02
to be really good at it. But yeah, um
00:36:05
from that point onwards, I I sort of
00:36:07
just trained like doggedly hard. Like
00:36:10
that first admittedly that first summer
00:36:12
that I was back um out of the team was a
00:36:15
little bit like finding my feet again
00:36:17
and then all those guys sort of left and
00:36:19
I was sort of training on my own through
00:36:20
the winter because I didn't make the the
00:36:22
trial team for the for the next stage.
00:36:25
So I had the whole winter essentially
00:36:26
just on my own and I was and some of the
00:36:29
younger athletes as well and I was just
00:36:30
on the URG and I was like okay I need to
00:36:31
get back to my peak fitness and I just
00:36:34
dug my toes in man. I was like I'm going
00:36:36
to do it and managed to get down within
00:36:39
half a second of my best ever 2K URG
00:36:41
time which was like really this was best
00:36:43
by miles not by miles but best by a long
00:36:45
way in the team and um by the end of
00:36:48
2019 I made it back into the New Zealand
00:36:51
summer squad for the Tokyo selection
00:36:54
squad. um which was incredible moment
00:36:56
for me because I was like I did it on my
00:36:59
own back and with a lot of help from
00:37:01
incredible people in the in the regional
00:37:03
system but I managed to do it without
00:37:05
the help of them and I had this such
00:37:06
pride in what I'd done um and then
00:37:10
obviously not getting selected for the
00:37:11
and then co came through co was just
00:37:14
like that massive I mean people Oh yeah
00:37:16
the Olympics the Tokyo Olympics were
00:37:17
delayed a year so yeah so so you were um
00:37:20
trying to make the um the rowing aid
00:37:22
squad for the the Tokyo Olympics
00:37:24
Um, how how close were you? Yeah, I was
00:37:27
like I was the first reserve. I was like
00:37:28
that was the essentially there's four
00:37:30
guys on each side in the eight and I was
00:37:32
the first bowider out of the boat and it
00:37:34
was like quite it was quite tight
00:37:36
between us. So it was like I need to and
00:37:38
I felt like I was on a roll and I was
00:37:40
rowing the boat quite well and I was
00:37:41
really aware of what I was doing. I was
00:37:42
on top of my [ __ ] and and I was ready to
00:37:45
keep pushing like in the national champs
00:37:47
me and Michael break my very good
00:37:48
friends um we had a really good race and
00:37:50
we I think we got third in the men's
00:37:52
premier pair at nationals. So it's top
00:37:54
six um where I was in the country at
00:37:56
that point. So, and but even then at
00:37:59
that point I still didn't feel like I
00:38:00
was good. Like I still had this, you
00:38:03
know, thing thing this this perception
00:38:04
and this identity that I was just this
00:38:06
big guy, cumbersome, hard to row with,
00:38:08
big but couldn't put on the water, you
00:38:10
know. Um,
00:38:12
was it just a story you were telling
00:38:14
yourself based on fact? I think there
00:38:17
was definitely a fact to it. There was a
00:38:19
huge bit missing that I didn't really of
00:38:21
of my rowing stroke. That's getting to
00:38:23
quite the nitty-gritty of the rowing
00:38:24
details, but essentially what it was
00:38:26
that there was some key parts of my
00:38:28
stroke that I never really learned
00:38:29
properly as a kid and I had to then
00:38:32
after the Tokyo campaign was uh was
00:38:35
obviously co came through, we tried to
00:38:37
figure out how to make that work. Didn't
00:38:39
make the Tokyo team, which is a huge
00:38:40
blow, but also I understood like I was
00:38:42
like, "Yeah, I'm just not good enough."
00:38:44
And I wasn't I'm not the guy that they
00:38:45
need for the team. Um, and I had to
00:38:48
relearn essentially relearn how to row
00:38:50
after that because I knew that there was
00:38:52
some a really important part of my
00:38:54
stroke that that that was missing. So I
00:38:57
had to essentially like tear all the old
00:38:59
bark off the tree bit by bit. And there
00:39:01
was some coaches down in Cambridge that
00:39:03
really helped me do that and really
00:39:05
patient with me cuz I wasn't
00:39:06
particularly um I wasn't particularly
00:39:09
positive. I was positive but it was hard
00:39:12
process and I got upset a lot because I
00:39:15
knew that I needed to do it and it
00:39:16
wasn't happening in the time frame I
00:39:17
needed it to. So I had to relearn my
00:39:19
stroke bit by bit and I guess the reason
00:39:22
that I ended up retiring because um I
00:39:25
actually got asked to leave.
00:39:28
Funny thing I was saying I was just so I
00:39:30
was so stubborn and I was just I was
00:39:33
continuing cuz I knew I could do it. I
00:39:35
could rebuild my stroke and I could get
00:39:36
there. I knew I could, but it was just
00:39:38
taking [ __ ] ages and it just and I
00:39:41
was just fighting because I mean like
00:39:42
you think about like with your running,
00:39:43
you've got a a certain technique that
00:39:45
you naturally do and then you've got the
00:39:47
ideal and you sort of like like you're
00:39:51
never the ideal because you're always
00:39:52
got some, you know, some things with
00:39:54
your biomechanics or whatever that don't
00:39:55
work with the ideal technique. And I was
00:39:58
constantly getting into hard situations
00:40:00
and it would just trip over back into my
00:40:02
habits because there was there was like
00:40:04
10 years of competitive rowing in this
00:40:07
one type of the way of doing it. And um
00:40:10
yeah, I um I just never quite like I
00:40:14
summited that mountain. I guess makes
00:40:16
perfect sense. Yeah. Like to use the
00:40:18
running analogy like if um when I'm
00:40:20
feeling fresh like my my arms will be
00:40:21
swinging down by my side, my shoulders
00:40:23
will be back. Um, as soon as you get in
00:40:25
in pain or discomfort, you I'm hunched
00:40:27
over. My arms are up high, clinched
00:40:30
fists. Exactly. And it's it's not
00:40:32
helpful sometimes, but it's just what
00:40:34
the the neuromuscular pathways. I went
00:40:36
right down the rabbit hole, man. Went to
00:40:38
do like some sort of neuromuscular like
00:40:39
Pilates and I was figuring out with some
00:40:41
I was crazy. You're you're a determined
00:40:43
[ __ ] aren't you? Yeah. If I don't
00:40:44
stubborn. Yes. Yeah. Stubborn, I guess.
00:40:47
Yeah. Yeah. I'm not I'm a reasonable
00:40:48
dude though, but stubborn. Yeah. Um
00:40:51
Yeah. your friend Michael Break, he said
00:40:53
um this is a quote, "Cam is a hammer.
00:40:55
Power is his thing. Finesse not so
00:40:57
much." Yeah. I think that's talking
00:40:59
about your rowing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,
00:41:00
that's It still hurts to hear that. I'll
00:41:04
be honest. I tried to do the finesse
00:41:06
thing, but I just I just I I just
00:41:08
couldn't figure it out. And I think
00:41:10
that's just um accepting that just it's
00:41:13
all good because there was a sport right
00:41:15
around the corner that rewarded every
00:41:18
bit of my my my strength. Yeah.
00:41:28
that that path of trying to figure it
00:41:30
out was so helpful for me cuz like man
00:41:32
what I learned about myself and and
00:41:34
everything in the process was
00:41:35
ridiculous. Like I was constantly
00:41:37
confronted with my inadequacies every
00:41:39
day. I'd wake up in the morning go a
00:41:41
[ __ ] how am I going to do this? My first
00:41:43
summer squad year I'd see the program
00:41:44
and I'd go, "Holy shit." Turn up to
00:41:47
training completely bugged. like you'd
00:41:50
turn up to training bugget and you'd
00:41:51
have like a 30k row to do and weights in
00:41:53
the afternoon and it I just didn't know
00:41:56
how I was going to do it and that was it
00:41:58
was like that for years and especially
00:42:00
towards the end it was more a mental
00:42:02
struggle at the end because I knew I had
00:42:03
to like go out in the water and and see
00:42:06
if I could actually rebuild my stroke
00:42:09
still and see if I could do it. And I
00:42:10
and I knew I was failing. That's the
00:42:12
thing. I knew I wasn't doing well at it
00:42:14
because I'd get halfway through a
00:42:15
session, I'd just fall right out the
00:42:16
back and I'd go, "I just" It was It was
00:42:19
ever present to me and I was never blind
00:42:21
to it. So, yeah, it's freaking
00:42:24
heartbreaking. Yeah, it is. It was. But
00:42:26
I don't know like
00:42:28
Yeah. No, it is. It's heartbreaking.
00:42:32
Like, you want something so bad. You're
00:42:34
doing everything that's asked of you.
00:42:35
Like, you're ticking all the boxes and
00:42:37
it's just not How How do they tell you
00:42:39
that you've you've missed out on the
00:42:40
Olympics? Oh yes. Is that a delicate
00:42:43
conversation or is it fairly I think the
00:42:45
communication has never been wrong New
00:42:48
Zealand's strength. I guess it's getting
00:42:50
better from what I've heard. Um but um I
00:42:54
guess it was um yeah it was always hard
00:42:57
but you knew I knew every time like it
00:43:00
was it was riding cuz we'd do seat
00:43:01
racing. We'd go out there and do a
00:43:04
week's worth of racing 1500 m maximum
00:43:07
effort. would do six at least six of
00:43:09
them a day, sometimes eight or nine and
00:43:11
that's 15 5 minute maximum efforts and
00:43:14
that's over that you do that for 5 days
00:43:16
in a row and then do a 2k race at the
00:43:18
end of that. So that's like that's the
00:43:20
sort of [ __ ] you do at rowing to get to
00:43:22
figure out if you got on the team and
00:43:23
you sort of knew the pecking order after
00:43:25
a after a week like that and so the
00:43:28
decision was never really a surprise.
00:43:31
Yeah. So I mean it's
00:43:34
Yeah. So, it's based it's based just on
00:43:37
um performance because I I think you'd
00:43:39
be a good guy to have around our team
00:43:40
environment from from what I can gather
00:43:42
from what I learned about you. So, you
00:43:44
think, well, he's not necessarily the
00:43:47
best rower, but he's, you know, great
00:43:48
for team morale and great for
00:43:50
positivity. I think that's what I and
00:43:52
the other thing is is that I was still
00:43:54
within the top top 10 best rowers in the
00:43:58
country at that point and this was one
00:44:00
of the strongest areas of rowing ever in
00:44:02
New Zealand. So like for me to say I
00:44:03
wasn't a good rower is actually just my
00:44:05
perception of it. The reality of the
00:44:07
situation I was actually very very good
00:44:08
at it which has taken a long time for me
00:44:10
to actually feel okay saying and feeling
00:44:12
okay to to to own that cuz I was good
00:44:15
but I just wasn't as good as my best
00:44:17
friends which were Olympic gold
00:44:19
medalists you know. Yeah. How does that
00:44:24
feel? So yeah so one of your best mates
00:44:25
Michael Break he's he's a gold medalist
00:44:27
as part of that rowing eight which you
00:44:29
just missed out on. M
00:44:32
how how's watching those Olympics? Oh
00:44:33
[ __ ] it was it was crazy, man. It was
00:44:36
cuz it was at the cloud. All the racing
00:44:38
was was was broadcast at the cloud and
00:44:40
rowing had this like pretty big sort of
00:44:42
pop-up thing at the cloud. And there was
00:44:45
the big philanthropic donor, this guy
00:44:47
Sean Kan, who's a a really cool
00:44:50
eccentric American guy who um was
00:44:52
funding a lot of the AIDS programs at
00:44:54
that point, the women's and men's AIDS
00:44:55
program. I I became friendly with him
00:44:57
and I was there standing at the top of
00:45:00
this um like sort of the the seats
00:45:03
watching the eight and I was actually at
00:45:06
Sean Kirk himself. So just want to say
00:45:08
that like the guys in that eight are
00:45:10
some of my best friends like Tom
00:45:11
Macintosh, Shawn Kirk and Michael Break
00:45:14
like Tom Murray like it's it's like Matt
00:45:16
McDonald like those guys are some of
00:45:18
like the most incredible people I know
00:45:20
like they're just Yeah.
00:45:24
Oh, here we go. My my friends are some
00:45:26
of the most amazing people and
00:45:32
that's that's Yeah, it's pretty cool.
00:45:37
Yeah. So So yeah. Yeah, but it must must
00:45:40
be mixed emotions like
00:45:42
that's that's why I'm sort of getting
00:45:43
there. like we're sitting up in that in
00:45:45
the top of that um those sort of grand
00:45:47
stands like watching the race and I just
00:45:49
like see them start and I knew though I
00:45:51
knew the boat felt really good cuz I
00:45:52
raced and trained in that boat quite a
00:45:54
bit and I just I fell off before the
00:45:58
trial and then post trial I'd never I
00:46:00
didn't owe the boat but you I sort of
00:46:01
felt what they were trying to do in
00:46:02
terms of rhythm and technique cuz in
00:46:04
rowing there's sort of this like all
00:46:06
there's eight people and you have to get
00:46:07
them on one particular way of doing it
00:46:09
and you have to first of all you got to
00:46:11
get buy in of all the people wanting to
00:46:13
do it a certain way and believing that's
00:46:14
the right way to do it. That's the
00:46:16
hardest way to the hardest thing to do.
00:46:17
Cool thing is they had Hamish Bond like
00:46:19
one of the best rowers ever in the
00:46:21
world. Savage legend. Um people say
00:46:25
don't make your heroes. I'm really
00:46:26
really glad I've gotten to know him.
00:46:28
Just as I want to say that he's an
00:46:29
incredible guy and an awesome person to
00:46:31
learn from. Um and to be a pair with him
00:46:34
at Team New Zealand was so amazing. Um
00:46:36
he's also like the most random dude
00:46:38
ever, but he's great. Um um he he he
00:46:42
deserves all the success he gets in
00:46:43
life. He had to share a boat with Eric
00:46:45
Murray for like 10 years. I know. I
00:46:47
know. Um but yeah, I was up there
00:46:49
watching this this men's eight race and
00:46:50
you see them come out the start and
00:46:52
they've just got this this huge rhythm.
00:46:54
You can see when you've watching for a
00:46:56
long time, you can see the a boat that's
00:46:58
really being bold and like really giving
00:47:00
it a a lot of pressure, a lot of
00:47:03
intensity, but then letting the boat run
00:47:04
a shitload. And those guys essentially
00:47:07
perfected that. And they called it um I
00:47:09
think they called it the the the is it
00:47:11
the BD
00:47:13
essentially was a big dick rhythm. They
00:47:15
just wanted to lay it out there. I know.
00:47:17
Um
00:47:19
I know. And but that that that's what it
00:47:21
was. And you could see them rowing like
00:47:22
that. And they came through the they
00:47:24
came out the start and they were like
00:47:25
level pegging with everybody. And that's
00:47:27
like oh okay. Usually the men's like New
00:47:29
Zealand men's like haven't been
00:47:30
particularly good at that um in the past
00:47:33
and then they got through the thousand
00:47:34
meters and this is sort of like crunch
00:47:37
time at a rowing race and this is where
00:47:39
you can sort of see who's got who's
00:47:40
who's really got the the race by the by
00:47:43
the scruff and they about I think it was
00:47:45
like 1100 or 1250 m gone they just did
00:47:48
this big move and they just took like a
00:47:50
seat or two and that's essentially like
00:47:53
you know like 2 meters two or three oh
00:47:55
two or three meters And I was just
00:47:58
sitting in the in this grand stands. I
00:47:59
was like, "Fuck, these guys are going to
00:48:01
win." Like they're just going to win. I
00:48:03
was sitting there with Sean who was, you
00:48:04
know, like funding the program. We were
00:48:06
just sitting there like, "Oh my god."
00:48:07
And everyone in the crowd is just like
00:48:08
absolutely just electric. Like we're
00:48:11
sitting there watching. Like the last
00:48:12
time New Zealand men's 8 won gold was in
00:48:14
1972, like 50 years earlier. Like and
00:48:17
and they won in convincing fashion. They
00:48:19
were out in front the whole time.
00:48:20
Whereas this race was some a bit more of
00:48:22
a nailbiter. And Germany had been this
00:48:24
like dominant force forever. like every
00:48:26
single world champs, they were the they
00:48:28
were the gold standard and our boys just
00:48:30
went out there and just laid it out and
00:48:32
it was it was incredible to watch. And
00:48:35
then you come through the last sort of
00:48:36
300 m and everyone's just in tears and
00:48:38
everyone's just going, "I cannot believe
00:48:40
this is happening." And then you come so
00:48:42
250 m to go, I see there's a close-up
00:48:45
shot of Hamish and he's just like starts
00:48:47
yelling and he's just swinging on it and
00:48:50
he's right down the back of the boat.
00:48:51
everyone in front of him can hear him
00:48:52
and they just take off again and then by
00:48:55
that point they've got enough margin and
00:48:56
they just come through the line about I
00:48:58
don't know a third of a boat length
00:49:00
ahead and like watching them do that was
00:49:03
like that's my dream that was my dream
00:49:08
and I want and so there was like this it
00:49:10
was this jealousy there was this you
00:49:12
know this this like this envy but then
00:49:14
almost this huge amount of pride because
00:49:16
I've [ __ ] I've gone there with those
00:49:18
guys like I was a part of that program
00:49:20
for five years before that in the elite
00:49:23
program really like you know I know
00:49:25
these guys as good as anyone else would
00:49:28
and they're such that and and to see
00:49:30
them do that was just it just gave me so
00:49:33
much satisfaction but then also I was
00:49:34
just like [ __ ] damn it
00:49:38
I didn't get to do it so so you leave
00:49:40
the cloud you hop back in your car no we
00:49:42
got hammered that man we got hacked yeah
00:49:45
yeah yeah there was champagne bottles
00:49:46
flowing around and we just um yeah we
00:49:49
But yeah, it was a it was a big
00:49:51
celebration that night. I I think that's
00:49:54
um that's a really good um explanation.
00:49:57
It's a a crazy position to be in cuz
00:49:59
obviously you're happy for them because
00:50:01
they're your mates and you want them to
00:50:02
succeed, but um yeah, I can't imagine
00:50:04
the severity of the FOMO. Huge.
00:50:08
Absolutely huge. And um I don't know.
00:50:12
But then I I realized real early on when
00:50:15
I was younger that you get so much more
00:50:18
benefit and and personal like positivity
00:50:21
that comes out of celebrating other
00:50:23
people's success than being envious of
00:50:25
them. Envy is like a cancer, man. It
00:50:28
just like it only it only ruins your own
00:50:30
experience because you just get you just
00:50:32
like you just you're all jealous and
00:50:34
it's just so yuck. Yeah. And I I
00:50:37
realized I think there's one moment in
00:50:39
under 23s where one of the other girls
00:50:42
I'd done really well or I think they had
00:50:43
raced before us or something. I can't
00:50:45
remember. And I had a choice and I
00:50:48
thought to myself, I'm either going to
00:50:49
congratulate them and be really happy
00:50:50
for them or I'm not cuz I hadn't really
00:50:52
I was figuring [ __ ] out at this point.
00:50:54
And I went up to her, gave her a massive
00:50:56
hug. I was like, that was such an
00:50:56
awesome performance. You guys did so
00:50:58
great. And I just had this flood of of
00:51:01
of this like this like euphoric flood of
00:51:03
emotions. I was like, I'm never being
00:51:05
envious ever again cuz it's going to
00:51:06
kill me if I do. I'd never really done
00:51:09
it in the past, but it just reinforced
00:51:11
to me that that was the like 100% the
00:51:13
right way to do it. Yeah. Yeah. And also
00:51:17
like as humans, we're born with like an
00:51:19
endless supply of compliments. E so just
00:51:21
like hand hand them out. Like it cost
00:51:24
like if you're scrolling on Instagram
00:51:25
and someone's done something something
00:51:27
good like write a comment. It takes
00:51:29
nothing. And I think there's not enough
00:51:31
um
00:51:33
credit where it's due I think is not
00:51:35
really given enough out and especially
00:51:37
New Zealand like you know like what
00:51:39
you've done with your podcast like you
00:51:40
what you've done with your career
00:51:41
incredible you've been a synonymous name
00:51:43
through radio and I have done this and
00:51:45
you've just excelled and it's like for
00:51:47
pe for people to actually comment and
00:51:49
say that I think is not common enough
00:51:52
and I love doing it. when someone's done
00:51:54
something really well, I'm like, "Hell
00:51:55
yeah." Like, "Good on you, bro. That is
00:51:57
so sick." Like, Michael the other day,
00:51:59
he called me up, Michael Bre called me
00:52:00
up and he's got this new job down in
00:52:02
Tonga. He's doing his um civil
00:52:03
engineering and he's working in this
00:52:04
sort of property development and that's
00:52:05
what he's wanted to do for ages. And I
00:52:07
was just like, "Yes, bro." He was
00:52:09
battling a bit for a while after rowing
00:52:11
and sort of figuring his stuff out. And,
00:52:13
you know, I could hear in his voice that
00:52:14
he was like really on his like path he
00:52:16
could start chewing away at. And and I
00:52:18
to see him do that, I'm just like I just
00:52:20
love it. Yeah. Yeah, you're such a
00:52:22
positive guy. That's interesting. Um,
00:52:24
just picking up on something you said
00:52:25
there about Michael battling after
00:52:27
rowing. So,
00:52:29
his his his um, you know, his career
00:52:31
ended with a cherry on top, right?
00:52:33
Olympic gold medal. Amazing. Job done.
00:52:35
Um, you you get asked to leave. That was
00:52:38
a fun conversation, man. Oh, it was, was
00:52:40
it? Yeah. Yeah. It was actually It was
00:52:42
actually quite nice. I had a really
00:52:43
really nice row in the morning in the
00:52:44
single. It was a really lovely morning.
00:52:46
Foggy, a little bit cold, like real flat
00:52:49
water. Beautiful. Had a really nice row.
00:52:51
Got into the thing. I was said, "Gary,
00:52:52
my coach was like, "Hey, can I come have
00:52:53
a chat with you?" I was like, "Oh,
00:52:55
you're good." I thought it was just a
00:52:56
debrief, whatever. And he was like,
00:52:57
"Cam, we're going to suggest you don't
00:52:59
we don't um you don't try for the next
00:53:01
World Champs." And I was like,
00:53:05
"H" and honestly, my first emotion was
00:53:09
sadness. My next emotion, very, very
00:53:12
quickly after was relief. I was [ __ ]
00:53:16
I was so tired mentally, emotionally,
00:53:20
physically, everything. I was done, but
00:53:23
I knew I could do it. So, I didn't want
00:53:25
to give up on it. But I knew Yeah. So,
00:53:28
it was like that stubbornness definitely
00:53:29
read its head at that moment. Yeah. And
00:53:31
they must have known you were never
00:53:33
going to make that call. Yeah, I think
00:53:34
so.
00:53:36
Cuz I'd never made it in the past. [ __ ]
00:53:38
That's a tough conversation though,
00:53:39
isn't it? Yeah. I think me and Gary
00:53:41
really hugged it out and we had a good
00:53:42
chat about it. So, I mean, ended ended
00:53:43
up I knew that it was you sort of feel
00:53:46
this stuff happening. If you're
00:53:47
completely blind to the reality of the
00:53:50
world, you might not see it. The writing
00:53:52
was on the wall. The writing was on the
00:53:54
wall, man. Like I was Yeah. Still,
00:53:56
that's rough. Who Who do you Who do you
00:53:58
call after that? Is that your parents or
00:54:00
sibling? Yeah, I guess. Yeah. I sort of
00:54:01
came out to Oakuckland and I just sort
00:54:03
of I don't know what I called I think I
00:54:06
called my dad. Yeah, just the family.
00:54:09
just being around the family and just
00:54:10
parking off an inland back on the shore
00:54:11
and just, you know, getting the people
00:54:13
around, I think, was really was really
00:54:15
important. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz it's a big
00:54:17
big it's a big part of your life, like a
00:54:18
massive chapter that um has basically
00:54:21
been shut for you.
00:54:23
Glad about it, to be honest. No, no, but
00:54:26
back to like your your good mate
00:54:27
Michael. So, it's like he finished with
00:54:28
a gold medal and then it's like then he
00:54:31
he's got that awkward thing where, you
00:54:32
know, you're leaving this chapter of
00:54:34
your life and you're discovering what's
00:54:35
next. But, you know, at least he got to
00:54:36
sort of end on his own terms. Yeah.
00:54:38
Yeah, I guess. So, how was how was your
00:54:40
like mental health over that time? Oh,
00:54:42
pretty [ __ ] Eh, yeah. Yeah, there's a
00:54:44
lot of um I just lost all my confidence
00:54:47
like you sort of you've met me now. Like
00:54:49
I'm pretty outgoing, pretty bubbly and
00:54:50
I've always been like that, but I guess
00:54:52
my my own internal sense of confidence
00:54:54
was really compromised. Um from at least
00:54:57
that 2018 point onwards, I was really
00:54:59
sort of my selfworth was completely tied
00:55:03
up in how I rode a boat. And it wasn't
00:55:06
about who I was as a person, what I was
00:55:08
learning in the process, what athlete,
00:55:10
what type of athlete I was. I was also
00:55:12
trying really hard to be good at all
00:55:13
that other stuff. So that maybe that was
00:55:15
influencing my selection decisions.
00:55:18
And also I had a really positive
00:55:20
reaction to every single like supportive
00:55:22
sort of morale element I was adding to a
00:55:24
team environment. So I was like, "Hell
00:55:26
yeah, let's do it." It was natural to
00:55:27
me, too.
00:55:29
But I was incredibly mentally drained.
00:55:32
Yeah. And just confidence was low. Um,
00:55:36
yeah, it was it was pretty Yeah, it was
00:55:38
pretty it was pretty sad. I mean, like
00:55:41
just for context, I wasn't in any kind
00:55:44
of really compromising mental position,
00:55:46
but I felt [ __ ] about who I was, you
00:55:48
know, and, you know, I wasn't in poverty
00:55:50
and I wasn't in all these horrible, you
00:55:52
know, circumstances that so many other
00:55:54
people are in. But subjectively, I felt
00:55:56
[ __ ] about my circumstance. I was still
00:55:57
very lucky, feel very privileged in so
00:55:59
many aspects of my life, but so many
00:56:02
those main parts were were really hard.
00:56:05
Yeah. I Yeah. I just can't begin to
00:56:06
imagine how lost you would have felt.
00:56:07
And also just wondering what life's I
00:56:10
mean it's worth pointing out at this
00:56:11
time. So you were sort of in your
00:56:12
Cambridge based and you're in that whole
00:56:14
sort of high performance bubble like uh
00:56:17
you're in lockdown with Michael Michael
00:56:19
and Olivia Podmore. Yes. Yeah. The late
00:56:21
cyclist and um yeah hanging out with
00:56:23
Eric Murray like Yeah. You introduced
00:56:26
Liv to Eric and they became like best
00:56:28
mates. Yeah. Yeah. So I was um so Liv
00:56:31
was living with with Mike and Andy at
00:56:34
that point over in other side of
00:56:35
Cambridge and we did co together.
00:56:38
So I got to know live quite well during
00:56:39
that and um yeah just tragedy on that
00:56:42
front firstly. Um yeah for sure it's
00:56:46
just shocked everybody you know. Um, she
00:56:48
was definitely sad and you could tell. I
00:56:50
had a conversation with her at the
00:56:52
Veladrome one day where she had, you
00:56:54
know, had some sadness with Mike and
00:56:56
her, you know, current partner at the
00:56:58
time. And it was she was just in this
00:56:59
hysterical state of of um, I don't know,
00:57:02
indecision and stress. And I just I
00:57:05
didn't know what to say to her. I was
00:57:07
like, I like I mean, you just got to put
00:57:09
out an olive branch. If you feel like
00:57:11
you want to say sorry about something,
00:57:12
you just got to put out an olive branch.
00:57:14
And that was sort of one of the last
00:57:15
proper chats I had with her. And um
00:57:18
yeah, just the the effect that that has
00:57:20
had on the environment I think is um is
00:57:24
huge. And I think
00:57:27
I think there's still some lessons that
00:57:29
um that sort of the
00:57:32
higherups could learn from that and
00:57:34
maybe it hasn't shocked the system
00:57:36
enough of what it should have. Um not
00:57:39
that it was it should never have
00:57:40
happened in the first place and but I
00:57:44
mean yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's just a it's
00:57:46
a [ __ ] horrible thing. Yeah. Yeah.
00:57:48
Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah. Um
00:57:49
yeah, Joseph Sullivan, I had him on the
00:57:51
podcast a couple of years ago and yeah,
00:57:52
he he he talked about the callousness of
00:57:55
the way he was dumped. Oh yeah. And then
00:57:57
he felt lost for a while and then he
00:57:58
sort of um you found the New Zealand
00:58:00
fire service which I guess for you as
00:58:02
team New Zealand. But um yeah. How did
00:58:05
you find um like the duty of care from
00:58:07
you know rowing New Zealand or high
00:58:09
performance New Zealand? I think okay.
00:58:10
Yeah. I mean rowing New Zealand does
00:58:12
their best with what they've got
00:58:14
essentially. I mean, I've I've there's a
00:58:17
there's a group of um athletes that
00:58:19
joined uh um it's called the athletes
00:58:22
cooperative. Essentially, it's a it's a
00:58:24
union, trade union that was set up to to
00:58:26
challenge the working conditions of of
00:58:28
of athletes in the high performance
00:58:30
system. And the there was a group of
00:58:32
cyclists and rowers that were sort of
00:58:34
aligning with um the guys from um
00:58:37
athletes federation. So they ran the the
00:58:40
um the union that was set up to make
00:58:43
rugby a professional sport back in the
00:58:45
2000s. So like guys like Rob Nickel and
00:58:48
Roger Mortimer and and and they and they
00:58:51
were real really pivotal in sort of
00:58:53
highlighting highlighting to us the
00:58:55
environment that we're in and the fact
00:58:57
that it is not okay. the way that the
00:59:00
way that things are done in that
00:59:02
environment needs to change and the only
00:59:04
way it's going to change is if we take
00:59:05
some action and we um and we really grab
00:59:09
the bull by the horns and we have done
00:59:11
that and it's a long process and there's
00:59:12
some really incredible people working
00:59:13
incredibly hard um to uh to try to
00:59:17
change things and you know you just get
00:59:20
met with this big no hand when you when
00:59:22
you go to high performance sport and you
00:59:24
get and it's just it's just sad really
00:59:26
because
00:59:29
I'm careful what I say here, but like
00:59:32
like cuz I got so much benefit from
00:59:34
being in that system. So, it's kind of
00:59:35
it's it's I've got to tread a knife edge
00:59:37
here because I got so much benefit, you
00:59:40
know, sports, psych, physio, you know,
00:59:43
supplements, like throw the, you know,
00:59:45
all these things handed to us as young
00:59:48
athletes, which was incredible. And the
00:59:49
services that we got were incredible.
00:59:51
But as time goes on, you realize that it
00:59:54
is a bit of exploitation and the the
00:59:57
system does need to change. And the only
00:59:59
way that happens is if you stand up and
01:00:01
you and you take responsibility and you
01:00:03
try and level the the power dynamic.
01:00:05
It's a it's a it's a paternal power
01:00:07
dynamic and it's things are determined
01:00:08
by a high performance sport. And then it
01:00:10
flows down to every NSO and the athletes
01:00:12
and you're kind of you're stuck within
01:00:14
this concrete box of opportunity and and
01:00:17
without any kind of taking
01:00:18
responsibility that the athletes can do
01:00:20
that you're just stuck there. So that's
01:00:22
essentially what we're trying to do. I
01:00:24
think that's really well articulated.
01:00:26
Makes makes perfect sense. Thought about
01:00:28
it a lot. I've had a lot of angry
01:00:30
discussions with people who who like why
01:00:32
are you doing that? I'm like I just get
01:00:34
my eyes go wide like this. I'm like you
01:00:35
don't know what it's like. Yeah. Know
01:00:38
what you're saying makes perfect sense.
01:00:39
So it's like if you're if you're on if
01:00:41
you're in good, you're very well looked
01:00:43
after, but as soon as as soon as you're
01:00:44
out, you're out in the cold. Yeah. Well,
01:00:46
if you're like on the fringe cuz I was a
01:00:47
fringe athlete like I was I was that one
01:00:49
who was kind of on the edge of the
01:00:50
decisions of of the selections and
01:00:52
there's so many people like me, you
01:00:55
know, there's and probably majority of
01:00:56
the people like there's only so many
01:00:57
Hish and Erics and you know and Twigs
01:01:00
and and EverWendells and Robells and
01:01:02
men's eights. there's a limited number
01:01:03
of people and there's so many people on
01:01:05
the other side of that and even like
01:01:06
someone like Joe who was on the top side
01:01:08
of that and then got you know thrown
01:01:10
out. So yeah, it's um it's a pretty
01:01:13
brutal environment but I mean again I
01:01:16
learned so much about myself and what I
01:01:18
can do better and how I can be good. So
01:01:20
yeah, that's a hindsight thing though,
01:01:22
isn't it? That's a hindsight thing. In
01:01:23
the moment I did know what was going on.
01:01:25
I thought I knew to myself in the last
01:01:27
especially only in the last couple years
01:01:28
really. I was like, "This is [ __ ]
01:01:31
hard." And I know it's hard, but I know
01:01:34
I'm getting a lot of benefit out of
01:01:36
this, so I'm just going to keep going.
01:01:38
So, when when you when anyone young or
01:01:40
you know, someone's asked me about what
01:01:42
they should do with their sport, I go,
01:01:44
"Well, I can't really give you advice. I
01:01:46
can tell you what my experience was." I
01:01:48
didn't really want to do it for the last
01:01:50
couple years. So, what I said to them
01:01:51
was like, "Do it until you don't want to
01:01:53
do it anymore and then give it a year
01:01:56
because things can change. You know,
01:01:59
every athlete who's had gotten a gold
01:02:00
medal or succeeded has had a huge up and
01:02:03
downs. They've gone and done really well
01:02:05
and then they've had this period of
01:02:06
adversity, then they bounce back up
01:02:07
again. So, you kind of have to ride
01:02:10
those difficulties out in order to see
01:02:12
the potential that comes out of it.
01:02:14
Yeah.
01:02:17
How did you come ride again after that?
01:02:18
I joined Team New Zealand, man. Like a
01:02:21
[ __ ] life raft, man. From one boat to
01:02:23
another. Honestly, it saved me. No.
01:02:25
Yeah. Was it like an immediate jump from
01:02:27
um you know from from rowing to yaching
01:02:30
or was like six months. There was about
01:02:33
6 months between Yes. What did that six
01:02:34
months look like? I was up here two days
01:02:36
a week from from Cambridge. Um and I was
01:02:39
studying staying at home with mom and
01:02:40
dad. So you're keeping active. Yeah.
01:02:42
Yeah. Yeah. So I was I was and I was
01:02:44
also training a little bit. Like I was I
01:02:46
was actually just doing what I wanted to
01:02:48
do training wise. So, I was going to the
01:02:49
gym at uni and I was cuz you get to an
01:02:51
end of a really like content heavy law
01:02:53
day of at uni and you just like want to
01:02:56
smack your head against the wall because
01:02:57
you got so much of this git in your head
01:02:59
and you're like I just want to go just
01:03:02
blow out some endorphins. So, I I just
01:03:05
go to the gym and just be a brute um for
01:03:07
for an hour or so. But then I sort of
01:03:09
got was more in touch with Kim um SNC
01:03:13
and at Team New Zealand and I was like,
01:03:14
"Okay, I need to start really getting
01:03:16
stuck in here." And I got uh one of my
01:03:18
old flat mates who was down in
01:03:20
Cambridge. He was a sports physiologist
01:03:22
for the New Zealand men's track cycling
01:03:25
team for the team pursuit. Um, so he was
01:03:28
incredible and he wrote me a program and
01:03:30
I did I followed his program to a tea
01:03:32
for like I don't know three months I
01:03:35
think three three or four months and I
01:03:38
turned up to the trial on pretty good
01:03:40
physical condition and yeah there was
01:03:43
the four tests that we had to do for the
01:03:45
team and managed to come out on the top
01:03:47
I don't know I think it was top five or
01:03:48
something um at least within the top
01:03:51
nine cuz that's who got into the team. I
01:03:54
don't really know where I sat but um
01:03:56
yeah managed to to make the team and
01:03:58
then you know from the start middle of
01:04:00
December I sort of was on the team New
01:04:02
Zealand path straight back into it. Um
01:04:05
yeah Blair Blair Chuke told me a story
01:04:07
about um the the te that I might have
01:04:10
the timeline wrong. Maybe you can fill
01:04:11
in some of the blanks here. Um but he
01:04:13
said he said you just had your head
01:04:14
down. You didn't really speak. Didn't
01:04:15
really say much to to anyone. Just sort
01:04:18
of kept to yourself. And then um after
01:04:19
one of the testing you let out a massive
01:04:21
like [ __ ] yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:04:23
Yeah. Yeah. It's a bit of my I mean
01:04:24
people that know me would know that
01:04:26
that's not uncommon for me to do when
01:04:27
I'm stoked with what I've done on a
01:04:29
test. I I don't hold back and but you
01:04:31
you were like completely like quiet and
01:04:33
just on your own because before a test
01:04:35
you just kind of like I was in a new
01:04:36
environment and I was like okay I need
01:04:38
to just you know feel it out and sort of
01:04:40
be a bit quiet and yeah. Hey boys, how
01:04:42
you doing? Good. Good. Um it was the
01:04:44
20-minute test that we did actually.
01:04:45
Funny story, that 20-minute test, I was
01:04:46
like, I was I was on some good numbers
01:04:49
and I felt good and through the halfway
01:04:51
and then I had obviously have your watch
01:04:52
on that has all of your training data
01:04:54
and your heart rate data on it and I
01:04:56
was, you know, cruising through halfway
01:04:57
and I was, you know, feeling good and I
01:04:58
was like, how am I actually on here?
01:04:59
Like this, you know, when you're on in a
01:05:01
race like you must feel it in some of
01:05:03
your running when you're like get
01:05:04
through the halfway like 10k, 11k mark
01:05:05
and you're like, I'm feeling pretty good
01:05:07
here. We can go for a nudge. Like when
01:05:08
you broke the 3h hour, you must have
01:05:09
been like I might be on here. Yeah.
01:05:11
Yeah. Completely. And you and you're
01:05:12
like I'm and you get this sort of like
01:05:14
this really good rush of endorphins.
01:05:15
You're like, "Shit, I'm going to do it."
01:05:17
Um and the last sort of
01:05:20
the last 5 minutes um I was I felt
01:05:24
really on and then I saw my watch cuz
01:05:26
connected to my phone on Bluetooth. So,
01:05:28
I saw like a message from Hamish Bond
01:05:30
come up and I was just like it was just
01:05:33
so serendipitous in these moments cuz I
01:05:35
was just like an idol that I've had
01:05:37
forever in my rowing is now like
01:05:39
becoming one of my potentially one of my
01:05:41
teammates with this team New Zealand
01:05:43
environment. He's just messaged me to
01:05:44
say some things and like I'm just in
01:05:46
this environment and I'm performing to
01:05:47
my best capability right now and I was
01:05:50
just like, "Holy [ __ ] this is so sick."
01:05:52
And I just buried myself. managed to do
01:05:55
a personal best on the 20-minute um FTP
01:05:58
test. Um and then when it was first, I
01:06:00
was like, "Fuck yeah." Just like smacked
01:06:02
the bike. Hell yeah. Like I think that
01:06:04
kind of Yeah. illustrated what I was
01:06:06
like from from then on to the boys.
01:06:08
Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's awesome. Came a
01:06:11
bit of a theme, I guess. Let's um Yeah.
01:06:12
The team New Zealand stuff. First of
01:06:13
all, um Grant Dalton is he's scary.
01:06:16
Yeah, he's definitely scary. Have you
01:06:18
What interactions have you had with him?
01:06:19
I've had some funny interactions with
01:06:21
Dalt. So, yeah. You know, he's a he's a
01:06:23
gruff dude, but man, he gives a [ __ ]
01:06:26
You can tell like he he's the beating
01:06:28
heart of Team New Zealand. Has been for
01:06:30
decades. I think of him as like the
01:06:31
spearhead arrow. Like you've got this
01:06:33
you've got this massive people behind,
01:06:35
but you have to have that pointy person
01:06:37
at the front that's going to just direct
01:06:38
the team. And he does that, man. He is
01:06:40
incredible at it. Like he was he is the
01:06:42
biggest advocate for the team that
01:06:44
you've ever seen. Like he's just
01:06:46
anything that anything the team just
01:06:48
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Let's make it
01:06:50
happen. He doesn't give a [ __ ] what
01:06:51
other people think of him and I just
01:06:53
love that. Yeah. And he's done all the
01:06:55
hustling for so many campaigns as well.
01:06:57
Yeah. It's incredible to watch really.
01:06:59
Do you do a grant impression? No, I
01:07:01
don't. I don't dare do adults
01:07:02
impressions.
01:07:04
No.
01:07:06
Oh, he hasn't got Yeah. Never really
01:07:08
quite slipped into that one. Yeah. Um
01:07:12
Oh, yeah. America's Cup reflection. So
01:07:14
So you're in you're in Barcelona for
01:07:16
months, which looked amazing. What
01:07:18
happens after that final race? Did you
01:07:21
get Louis Vuitton back? No. Nothing,
01:07:22
mate. Yeah, didn't get anything. No. Did
01:07:24
you go to any parties with like George
01:07:26
Clooney or anything? No. No. That's all
01:07:28
that's all um Shuki and um Pistol. They
01:07:30
they go to the Omega parties with the
01:07:32
boys. Um copy copy copy copy.
01:07:35
[Laughter]
01:07:37
You kid.
01:07:40
He's the best. Um no. Um yeah, we just
01:07:43
had a we just celebrated, man. It was
01:07:46
just a It was just an unadulterated
01:07:48
piss up and you just went out and just
01:07:51
and just celebrated. We had a a team
01:07:53
function the the the the day afterwards
01:07:56
as well and that was and that was real
01:07:57
special because you just got to the dust
01:07:59
was settling too. We were all quite hung
01:08:00
over but the day like the actual race
01:08:03
was was pretty it was pretty incredible.
01:08:06
[Music]
01:08:07
Yeah. I saw an Instagram post um from
01:08:09
you. So this is um 6 months after
01:08:10
joining team New Zealand. Um, not going
01:08:13
to lie, it's been a long time since I've
01:08:15
felt genuinely excited about what's
01:08:16
going on in life. Yeah. And to say I've
01:08:18
been excited lately is is an
01:08:20
understatement. So grateful to be part
01:08:21
of this team and for the opportunities I
01:08:23
have. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Straight away
01:08:27
you found you it's like you were kicked
01:08:29
out of this um this tribe for lack of a
01:08:32
better ter. And then straight away like
01:08:33
you you fell into another one. Yeah.
01:08:35
Then like I would say this to everyone.
01:08:38
We had a um we had a team sort of
01:08:40
debrief with just the sailing team um
01:08:44
a couple days after the race the cup
01:08:46
finished and we all sort of said a
01:08:48
couple words and I essentially just said
01:08:49
to them I was like hey look like I know
01:08:52
I'm a lot. I know I'm this personality
01:08:54
that's, you know, overbearing at times
01:08:56
or whatever, but the way I felt about
01:08:58
the team is that they, as soon as I
01:09:01
turned up, they not only accepted me,
01:09:02
but celebrated me as a person and it
01:09:06
fixed me.
01:09:08
Yeah. I just Yeah.
01:09:12
Oh, bro, that's awesome. Yes.
01:09:15
It's like a life raft, man. I've told
01:09:17
everyone this, too. This is not uncommon
01:09:19
knowledge. Like,
01:09:21
those people are incredible.
01:09:24
And they just they they show sorry
01:09:28
they show appreciation in such an
01:09:30
interesting way like people talk about
01:09:32
like there's when you say they who do
01:09:34
you mean just the team in general and
01:09:35
sort of the closest sailing team and
01:09:36
just the like the sort of culture within
01:09:38
the team is very much it's show
01:09:41
appreciation and and uh and support with
01:09:44
your actions and not with your words and
01:09:47
for me that was the opposite of how I
01:09:49
ran my life. I was always very
01:09:50
supportive, you know, um, vocally
01:09:54
and um, and I sort of struggled a little
01:09:57
bit sometimes when push came to shove to
01:09:59
like really support people, you know,
01:10:00
and it was a bit of a, you know,
01:10:02
shortcoming of mine. I was like and when
01:10:04
I joined the team, I felt no expectation
01:10:06
to say the to say the thing to support
01:10:08
the person in the in the words way and
01:10:10
give them a hand your shoulder and be
01:10:11
like, I'm there for you. You know, it's
01:10:13
like but but I just noticed everywhere
01:10:16
they would everyone would do this stuff
01:10:17
for each other. It was the actions that
01:10:19
were done dayto day that you know that I
01:10:21
saw anyway from my perspective that
01:10:23
people like people just devoted
01:10:25
themselves to the to the better of the
01:10:26
team and it was just it was inspiring to
01:10:29
to to be a part of. M it's so cool to
01:10:32
hear that because um yeah it feels like
01:10:35
you guys the Cyclones are like workh
01:10:36
horses you know you just head down just
01:10:41
grind grinding away yeah know we are
01:10:44
it's but I mean we love it man like we
01:10:48
get on the what bike and you know just
01:10:50
work you know just get stuck in get
01:10:52
sweaty get tired like I definitely got I
01:10:55
was definitely pretty knackered by the
01:10:57
end of the campaign just because I'd
01:10:58
been you know training like that for a
01:11:01
long time and and I was just I was
01:11:03
pretty over I get into some of those
01:11:05
harder sessions like you know 20 times 1
01:11:07
minute on 1 minute off at some like you
01:11:09
know 600 550 600 watts on the W bike and
01:11:14
god it's confronting especially at like
01:11:16
7:00 in the morning you just wake up and
01:11:19
you get there you're like you know and
01:11:20
I' I'd commute most of the times from
01:11:22
Green Height into town um on my on my
01:11:25
bike so I'd cycle into work and then we
01:11:27
get on the bike and and
01:11:29
[ __ ] and I just at times I just go [ __ ]
01:11:32
man I'm buggered and I'm just I just
01:11:35
don't want to be doing this. Me
01:11:37
meanwhile Blair and Pete what are they
01:11:38
doing? They're playing touch rugby park.
01:11:41
They do play like there is a sort of
01:11:43
team touch on Thursday mornings which we
01:11:45
never got to be a part of but like those
01:11:47
guys are relentless man like the amount
01:11:49
of meetings the amount of like data the
01:11:51
amount of analysis that goes on in that
01:11:53
place and it's directly like from
01:11:55
sailors to designers they have so many
01:11:58
meetings that constantly outline what
01:12:00
was done what was the changes what did
01:12:02
we feel what can we do better next time
01:12:04
and like that's just my perception of
01:12:05
what happened I've never really been a
01:12:06
part of the meetings but it's just the
01:12:09
amount of development that's constantly
01:12:10
happening and the like the hunger to
01:12:12
make it better and better and better
01:12:13
constantly. Like the boat was being
01:12:15
developed right up to the very end like
01:12:17
some sales, some changes, some tweaks,
01:12:19
you know, there's never any complacency,
01:12:21
which is really like to say I learned
01:12:24
like what excellence looks like um and
01:12:27
in a life situation was an
01:12:28
understatement. I saw it every day. I
01:12:30
had a really confronting conversation
01:12:31
with someone once over in Barcelona
01:12:34
cuz we were building this weird like it
01:12:36
it was like a a spray booth extraction
01:12:39
air extraction booth and it was
01:12:41
essentially for like the spraying parts
01:12:44
or like um grinding some carbon stuff
01:12:46
and we had to build this like carbon
01:12:47
system this plywood box essentially and
01:12:50
we were making it look all nice and it
01:12:52
was getting covered in bog and like
01:12:54
getting painted and really like finished
01:12:56
really nicely and I sort of made an
01:12:58
off-hand comment and sort of
01:12:59
Oh, like do we need to do this? Like
01:13:01
does it need to be this nice? And this
01:13:03
dude who's a notorious um James Graham
01:13:06
who's notorious for being like just like
01:13:10
says exactly what he thinks. He said,
01:13:12
"That's exactly why you'll never get
01:13:13
it." And I was like, "Fuck."
01:13:16
I was like, "Holy shit." And I was like
01:13:18
I it put me on my ass, man. I was like,
01:13:20
"Okay." I just I just pulled my head in
01:13:22
that day. I was like I was really
01:13:24
introspective. I was like, "Whoa, what
01:13:25
was that about?" And then I over the
01:13:27
next couple days I sort of realized I
01:13:29
was like that's what excellence looks
01:13:30
like. It's doing the thing to that
01:13:33
standard even when it doesn't seem
01:13:34
necessary because when you do the little
01:13:36
jobs like that really well it just it
01:13:39
actually the rest of it just takes care
01:13:40
of itself. You don't even have to think
01:13:42
about doing anything with the big jobs
01:13:44
with excellence because it's already
01:13:45
happening at the small detail level.
01:13:48
Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Not not cutting
01:13:50
corners at any step of the way. Yeah.
01:13:51
and seeing it in practice cuz I think
01:13:54
it's hard to like justify it in your own
01:13:56
life until you've seen the evidence of
01:13:57
it. Yeah. Did um I I had uh Dr. Nick
01:14:02
Nick Gill on the podcast, All Black's
01:14:04
Strength and Conditioning Coach. He he I
01:14:06
think he told me or maybe I'm getting
01:14:07
him confused with another podcast guest
01:14:08
that um Richie was asked to Yeah. be a
01:14:11
Cyclaw. Yeah, I think he tried for it. I
01:14:13
don't know the details of it, but yeah,
01:14:14
I think he did it. Did the trial. Well,
01:14:16
that's a sort of caliber of person I'm
01:14:17
looking at. Yeah, there's some pretty
01:14:18
incredible dudes that tried for it.
01:14:19
Yeah. Well, it's good that he good that
01:14:21
he gave you a go. Yeah, good that they
01:14:23
gave you a shot. Oh, we'll give this low
01:14:25
performer a shot. Hey, why not? Um,
01:14:28
something you picked up on something I
01:14:30
picked up on before. So, you said uh
01:14:32
often you're cycling to work from Green
01:14:34
Height, which is how 20ks. 27ks. 27ks.
01:14:37
Why would you cycle 27ks to work when
01:14:40
when you know you're going to get on a
01:14:41
bike as soon as you get to work? Uh,
01:14:42
well, it's it just suited the program
01:14:44
sometimes. Like sometimes we would have
01:14:45
a gym session in the morning and we'd
01:14:48
have a big cycle in the afternoons and
01:14:50
it made sense for me to ride my bike to
01:14:52
work, do the gym session and then carry
01:14:54
and then ride my bike back home again
01:14:55
and do my big session in the afternoon.
01:14:57
So we'd do I'd ride my bikes and you'd
01:14:59
sort of leave your bike I wouldn't do it
01:15:00
every day. It it was sort of on and off
01:15:02
some days. I'd ride my motorbike to work
01:15:04
some days and I'd ride my bike to work
01:15:05
other days. And um yeah, it just worked
01:15:07
with the program because sometimes I
01:15:09
could leave my bike at work and or it
01:15:13
just fit in well with with what we were
01:15:15
doing. And it was kind of nice to save
01:15:17
money on gas and like, you know, get to
01:15:19
know the Oakland Western cycle way a bit
01:15:21
better. You those Lamborghinis Thursday.
01:15:23
I know. You know, I didn't have it at
01:15:24
that point. I didn't have it at that
01:15:26
point. Um Yes. So in the leadup to say
01:15:29
the America's Cup, what like what does
01:15:31
an average day or average week look like
01:15:32
for Yeah. over in Barcelona or here? No.
01:15:35
maybe here before you go. Yeah. Yeah.
01:15:36
So, I guess we would do
01:15:40
Can't remember exactly the program. Um,
01:15:42
but mainly it was either like an
01:15:45
interval session in the morning. So,
01:15:46
maybe like a minute on minute off
01:15:48
session or like a threshold session or
01:15:51
an FTP session or like a power session
01:15:54
depending on what we needed to do. Some
01:15:56
sprints maybe. Um, and that was sort of
01:15:58
usually around an hour and a half to two
01:15:59
hours. Um, and then we'd sort of get
01:16:03
into some we'd get there some chefs at
01:16:05
the base. Um, Harry Linsky and Mattie
01:16:06
Po, legendary chefs. Never had a bad
01:16:09
meal in that building ever. And it was
01:16:11
consistently amazing. Um, and we'd have
01:16:15
breakfast in the shed uh in the kitchen
01:16:16
and then very quickly get onto the onto
01:16:19
the floor and, you know, either it was I
01:16:21
needed to go see Sha and and figure out
01:16:24
what drives needed to be done, get in
01:16:26
the ute, off I go. Um or we would be on
01:16:29
the floor doing some logistics and
01:16:31
sorting out some moving some things
01:16:33
around so that the shed we could operate
01:16:35
how we needed to. Maybe the the AC40s
01:16:37
which was a smaller boat needed to be
01:16:38
worked on or needed to be moved or some
01:16:40
containers were coming in or there's so
01:16:42
much happening in that in that uh in
01:16:44
that shed that it requires um a lot of
01:16:46
manpower. So we were on that either that
01:16:49
or I was on the road.
01:16:51
And before these before these hard
01:16:53
sessions, um like are you nervous
01:16:57
knowing how much pain you're going to
01:16:58
be? Oh yeah, but you're just used to it
01:16:59
at that point, you know, with with
01:17:01
rowing especially like it's you learn
01:17:03
and everyone in the building, all the
01:17:05
boys sort of knew like how to handle
01:17:08
hard sessions and you just did it
01:17:09
because you'd done it for so many years.
01:17:11
Yeah. Yeah. In the afternoon. So then
01:17:13
we'd come back and finish all of our
01:17:15
sort of jobs and then afternoon we'd
01:17:16
either have a gym session or a long
01:17:18
ride. Yeah. It sort of alternated
01:17:20
between that. Usually it was around
01:17:23
I want to say like sort of 16 to 20
01:17:26
hours a week training. Yeah. With
01:17:28
sometimes in our big weeks we'd have
01:17:31
like I remember one of our massive weeks
01:17:32
in Oakuckland here. We'd have we I had
01:17:36
three near probably yeah 310k
01:17:40
rides a week. So that was like four to
01:17:42
five hours on the road. Um
01:17:47
and what sort of pace like
01:17:49
an hour. Yeah. I mean, speed's often not
01:17:52
helpful helpful for that because, you
01:17:53
know, you're going up hills. It was at
01:17:56
our sort of L2 zone. So, zone 2
01:17:58
training, everyone's getting quite
01:17:59
familiar with zone 2 cuz running's just
01:18:01
blowing up everywhere. So, yeah, that
01:18:03
was our zone 2 stuff. But it often, you
01:18:04
know, we'd ride through, you know, deep
01:18:07
west Oakland, go the white tax, go down
01:18:09
to Phar, come back out, go to Murai, go
01:18:11
back out, go through the Wakadis, and
01:18:13
then go home to Greenhigh. That was my
01:18:15
standard um big ride home. Yeah. From
01:18:18
town here. What about the money? Was the
01:18:20
money good? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Compared
01:18:23
to what I was on. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so
01:18:25
rowing Yeah. High performance sport New
01:18:27
Zealand. Yeah. What do you get? Is it
01:18:28
like a set fee if you're in the squad or
01:18:30
Yeah. I was on like It changed a lot,
01:18:32
but essentially it was around like 35
01:18:34
grand a year. Yeah. Yeah. Even at the
01:18:36
top level e like the the D leisas of the
01:18:38
world. Like I don't think she gets too
01:18:40
much. They're having to hustle to get
01:18:41
extra on top of the I think it's the 65
01:18:44
or 70 they get for for the the the
01:18:46
excellence grant now. And I think that's
01:18:49
a piss take. Well, the the sacrifices
01:18:51
you make over so many years. Yeah. Well,
01:18:53
I mean life on hold really. Yeah. I mean
01:18:55
it's you know I've heard Eric talk about
01:18:56
sacrifices before and he's got a good
01:18:58
take in it. I think Eric Murray by the
01:19:00
point. Um it's opportunity cost and it's
01:19:03
a and it's a choice and it's something
01:19:04
that you want to do. So but you also I
01:19:07
think should get rewarded for your
01:19:10
efforts. And I think that, you know,
01:19:13
getting
01:19:15
Yeah. Yeah. It's It's not It's
01:19:17
definitely not enough for for someone
01:19:18
like Lisa Carrington, who's one of the
01:19:20
most incredible athletes the world's
01:19:21
ever seen. To be on that sort of money
01:19:23
is And it's not all about the money.
01:19:24
It's definitely not It shouldn't be
01:19:25
about the money, but to support someone
01:19:28
with only that much is not it's not
01:19:29
good.
01:19:31
Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I agree. Um, so
01:19:34
yes, so the the money is better in team
01:19:36
New Zealand, but then as we were talking
01:19:37
about before, the flip side of that is
01:19:38
it's um like shorter term contracts.
01:19:41
Yeah, honestly the contract with with
01:19:44
team New Zealand felt way more secure
01:19:45
than anything I'd have with rowing cuz
01:19:47
rowing was assessed essentially on the
01:19:48
six monthly basis cuz you'd have your
01:19:50
after the world champs and you'd be
01:19:52
selected for the world champs 6 months
01:19:53
later. Then you after that you'd have
01:19:55
the next year. So it was always six
01:19:57
monthly. Whereas this I had two years I
01:19:59
got contract until the end of the cup
01:20:00
2024. I was like, "Shit, [ __ ] let's
01:20:02
go." I was I felt like I could relax for
01:20:05
the first time. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know
01:20:08
anything about sailing now or No, not
01:20:09
need to. Well, a little bit enough to be
01:20:12
able to hoist the hoist the sales of the
01:20:14
boat. Well, to be fair, there's a lot of
01:20:15
sailing in my family. Like my the sort
01:20:17
of wider wider family. There's some
01:20:19
world match racing champions and um and
01:20:22
my old man has idolized the team
01:20:24
forever. Like I wore his his red socks
01:20:27
that he bought in 2000. I wore them on
01:20:29
the boat when we won last year. So like
01:20:32
he has been and my brother he's an he's
01:20:33
an incredible sailor and he loves it you
01:20:36
know he he's out on this on a a Kurs 40
01:20:38
yacht that my another really good friend
01:20:40
owns and he he's just that's that sport
01:20:43
for him has brought him back to life. he
01:20:45
sort of had a bit of, you know, mental
01:20:46
low and he's really felt like his his
01:20:48
his role on that boat has really helped
01:20:50
him too. And um to be able to share a
01:20:52
bit of my experience, you know, albeit
01:20:55
like what he would probably want to do.
01:20:57
And I can understand he might be a bit
01:20:59
like jealous or whatever the hell that
01:21:01
emotion is, but I I love that I've been
01:21:03
able to include my family who are such a
01:21:07
sailing nuts um in that. Yeah. Yeah. Can
01:21:11
you believe that you're an America's Cup
01:21:12
winner? No. Yeah. Uh yep. Yeah, I held
01:21:15
it above my head. Oh, it's incredible,
01:21:17
man. Like, it's I I I get in my groove
01:21:19
down in Cambridge now and I sort of
01:21:21
relax and I and I sort of forget cuz I
01:21:23
get a bit in my own head and I need to
01:21:25
be better. I need to be better and then
01:21:26
I sort of zoom out a bit and I go, "Oh
01:21:28
shit." Like, we actually done really,
01:21:30
really well here. Yeah, that's cool,
01:21:32
man. And I look back at the footage and
01:21:34
I look back on what we, you know, the
01:21:35
day, you know, the the actual after the
01:21:38
race and Yeah, man. like holding that
01:21:41
big mullet like a magnum with the
01:21:43
America's Cup insignia on it and with my
01:21:45
mate Louie and and Nate and I was just
01:21:47
like chuffed ass took a knee and and had
01:21:50
a big swig like it was yeah it was a
01:21:52
real special moment well the guy he was
01:21:55
already on the knee yeah Marius is
01:21:58
already ready to go um what's next are
01:22:00
you are you hoping to be around for the
01:22:02
next campaign I'd love to man any uh
01:22:04
like I I'm have every intention of of of
01:22:08
putting of putting every every foot
01:22:10
forward that I can to be a part of the
01:22:11
team again. But I I haven't there hasn't
01:22:14
been much chat or any sort of, you know,
01:22:16
about what's going to happen or how it's
01:22:18
going to happen. So, I'm just expressing
01:22:20
my interest and, you know, keeping in
01:22:22
contact with the boys and and staff and
01:22:24
and management and going, "Hey, I I
01:22:26
really loved my experience and would
01:22:27
love to do it again if you have me." So,
01:22:29
that's essentially where I'm at, but I'm
01:22:31
not I'm not putting my life on pause up
01:22:33
here and sort of waiting. I'm getting
01:22:35
stuck in. We're back in Cambridge
01:22:37
getting our head to the ground. Let's
01:22:38
make it happen and then if it needs to
01:22:40
happen, I'll figure out how to come back
01:22:41
up here again. Yeah, that's awesome.
01:22:43
Yeah. What What about SGP? Do they have
01:22:46
Cyclones? No. So CGP is quite different.
01:22:48
They run a different kind of boat. So
01:22:50
their boat's a catamaran that has um
01:22:52
pedestal grinders. So they have arm
01:22:54
grinders on their on their Yeah. Yeah.
01:22:56
Um
01:22:58
what about other sports? So say say
01:23:00
you're lucky enough to do another um
01:23:02
America's Cup campaign, you'll be like
01:23:04
early 30s after that. Yeah. Yeah. What
01:23:06
else do you want to do? You want to try
01:23:07
endurance? Like Iron Man or something?
01:23:09
Yeah. I think like I funny like 105 kilo
01:23:12
guy loves running. Like I love running.
01:23:14
It's I'm [ __ ] at it. Like I'm really bad
01:23:16
at it, but I think it's one of the most
01:23:17
accessible sports and it's so good for
01:23:20
you. But I mean Iron Man maybe probably
01:23:23
just marathons really. I I I wouldn't
01:23:25
know at this point. It's a big call to
01:23:27
say I'd do a marathon, but um I might be
01:23:30
able to get to a spot where I could do
01:23:31
that. Yeah. I don't know. I guess we'll
01:23:33
have to see what my um see what my
01:23:35
intuition says I should do, you know.
01:23:37
Yeah, you I mean obviously you've got
01:23:39
this incredible like work ethic and and
01:23:42
this engine that allows you to do really
01:23:44
tough things. So like whatever you want
01:23:46
to do, I reckon you could probably do
01:23:48
quite successfully. Yeah. Well Well,
01:23:49
thank you for that. Yeah, I've probably
01:23:51
maybe Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. I mean,
01:23:53
unless I'm limited with my sort of
01:23:56
physical, you know, what I'm bound with
01:23:58
physically, like I'm a big guy. I'm like
01:24:00
6'4 105 kilos. So, like running is not
01:24:03
the most efficient thing I can do. Um,
01:24:06
yeah. For me, honestly, what I want to
01:24:08
do is ride my motorbike more and drive
01:24:10
cars more. That's really what I love
01:24:11
doing. Yeah. Oh, and one of your friend
01:24:15
Oh, Google. Google. Um, it wanted me to
01:24:18
want to ask about your your love life.
01:24:20
He every everyone's everyone's like
01:24:22
rooting for you to find the one. Yeah.
01:24:25
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, we'll
01:24:27
see what happens. Like, it's still it's
01:24:29
still we're still on the path. So, is
01:24:31
your Bumble profile picture of the
01:24:32
yellow Lamborghini? No. It's funny
01:24:35
because that car has not featured
01:24:37
anywhere. The only people that know
01:24:39
about it are like my close friends and
01:24:41
now it's on the podcast.
01:24:44
So, I may as well start posting about
01:24:45
it.
01:24:47
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Um, and Michael, your
01:24:49
friend, he said you love the dog breed
01:24:52
Leonber, which um we talked about
01:24:54
briefly earlier. One of the biggest dog
01:24:56
breeds in the world. They must weigh
01:24:58
like 50 or 60 k. 70. Seven. Yeah. So Gus
01:25:00
is I've had two of them. Um yeah,
01:25:02
Lincoln was the last one. Lincoln was
01:25:03
the last one. Yeah. So he was he was um
01:25:05
he was a lovely lovely dog and um yeah,
01:25:08
he passed he passed away in front of me
01:25:09
which is kind of sad. Like he he came in
01:25:11
from a just just one night. I let him in
01:25:14
and he was at the front door just lying
01:25:16
down in his usual spot and all of a
01:25:18
sudden he let out this big yelp and I
01:25:19
was like, "Oh, what's happened here?"
01:25:21
And I was like, "What are you doing,
01:25:22
man?" And I just looked over and he was
01:25:23
just like lifeless and I could only see
01:25:25
his head. And I went over and looked at
01:25:26
him. I was like, "He's just pissed all
01:25:28
over the floor." And he was just like
01:25:30
just still. I was like, "Ooh, okay." So
01:25:34
yeah, he just he was just dead. Yeah, it
01:25:36
was pretty bad. Oh, that's so traumatic.
01:25:39
It was a shitty day. How how old? He was
01:25:41
four. Did they have quite a short
01:25:43
lifespan? 10 years is sort of the
01:25:45
expected, but what was it? No idea. I
01:25:48
expected it was some kind of like heart
01:25:50
issue maybe. I don't know. It's hard.
01:25:52
You have to do a biopsy. Whether it was
01:25:54
an autopsy on them and that's just I
01:25:56
felt like at that point it was not
01:25:57
necessary. you know, he was gone and I
01:25:59
just, you know, could celebrate him in
01:26:01
that way. Yeah.
01:26:03
Going back to my friends. So, we got on
01:26:05
the phone, all of our friends came over
01:26:07
at midnight on like a Wednesday and I
01:26:10
was just parked up in my lounge and
01:26:12
everyone was there and I was just like,
01:26:14
"This is incredible." I had didn't have
01:26:16
to like they were just there straight
01:26:18
away. It's it's it's crazy to have a
01:26:21
group of mates like that.
01:26:24
Yeah. your your circle of friends I find
01:26:26
especially as you get older it's um it's
01:26:28
a reflection of what you've put out on
01:26:29
the road I reckon yeah maybe um that's
01:26:32
devastating though like um yeah my
01:26:34
little dog's can't is he around there um
01:26:38
yeah I he's like 11 or 12 now when I
01:26:41
first got him
01:26:43
um the first thing I did like within the
01:26:45
first couple of days I googled like how
01:26:46
long does
01:26:49
it's so morbid straight away like within
01:26:51
a couple of days I was like [ __ ] I'm
01:26:53
going to be broken
01:26:55
It's bad. Like it's just and you didn't
01:26:57
really It's hard to process it straight
01:26:59
away. So like Yeah. And then you know a
01:27:02
couple was six or eight months later or
01:27:03
a year later I can't remember how long
01:27:05
it was got an email from a breeder who I
01:27:08
know really well down in Cambridge and
01:27:09
she lovely couple down there and I I
01:27:12
often go see them and take Gus back and
01:27:14
you we hang out. Um she was like, "Oh,
01:27:17
we've had a litter that's come available
01:27:18
because two of our dogs just had a quick
01:27:20
route in the paddock." Um,
01:27:24
and uh, it wasn't even a planned one. It
01:27:26
was like completely unplanned. What? The
01:27:27
root and the paddic. Yeah. No, just them
01:27:30
having the litter. It was just it was
01:27:31
just an accident really.
01:27:34
And I Yeah, I got one of those ones. And
01:27:36
Gus, he's uh he's been with me for, you
01:27:38
know, mom and dad love him. They look
01:27:40
after him while I was up I was with them
01:27:42
at at home um and Green Height and, you
01:27:45
know, they've just fallen in love with
01:27:46
him. He's just such a cool dog. He's
01:27:48
huge. Like he'd be sitting right here
01:27:49
like he's like the head's like this big
01:27:51
and Yeah. Why did you Yeah. Why did you
01:27:55
get the same breed again? Because I
01:27:56
don't know if I'd want to get a Sydney
01:27:57
Silky again cuz I think it would just
01:27:59
remind me too much of a Kanye. I just
01:28:01
love the their um temperament and their
01:28:05
like the way that they roll. I guess the
01:28:07
attitude. They've got a very like
01:28:10
they're in it and they're hanging out
01:28:11
and they're excited and then they're
01:28:13
tired and they go sit down. And I'm like
01:28:15
I've had enough here. I'm going to go
01:28:16
sit down. And they're a little bit
01:28:17
indignant. a little bit stubborn, heaps
01:28:19
of energy, and then like a big dog, man.
01:28:21
I [ __ ] I love I remember when I was
01:28:23
young, I saw and hung out with a new
01:28:25
found one, and it was this big black
01:28:28
slobbery fluffy thing, and I was like,
01:28:30
"Come here."
01:28:32
When I was like 8 years old, and I ran
01:28:34
up to it, I was like, "Come here." And I
01:28:36
just I just couldn't get enough of it.
01:28:37
And when I got older, I was like, "Oh,
01:28:39
I'd like one that doesn't drool."
01:28:41
Because the Newfoundlands and the St.
01:28:43
Bernards are the two other giant breeds
01:28:44
and they drool. So the Leon bers have a
01:28:48
lot of tight a tighter jaw so with their
01:28:51
sort of you know they're the skin around
01:28:52
the jaw and um yeah and and and I just
01:28:55
thought bug it let's do it. It is the
01:28:58
dog version of you. Yeah I guess so.
01:28:59
Yeah. Well that's what Michael break
01:29:01
your friend said. He said it's
01:29:04
the Leon B is a big goofy dog much like
01:29:07
you for a big goofy cam. Yeah. Yeah. I
01:29:09
love him. It's he's he's um he's brings
01:29:12
so much positive energy into him into my
01:29:14
life. Yeah. He's great. That's cool. Um,
01:29:16
just got some general questions to
01:29:18
finish up with. How's this been for you
01:29:19
today? Is it is it good reflecting on
01:29:21
the the journey of your life so far?
01:29:23
I've I've felt like I've wanted to talk
01:29:25
about it for a while. I've felt I've
01:29:27
wanted to sort of cuz I feel like it's
01:29:29
quite a unique journey. Like on
01:29:31
reflection, I've gone [ __ ] there's been
01:29:32
some interesting like ups and downs and
01:29:34
and difficulties and and I've had to
01:29:36
fight through a lot of my own [ __ ] to
01:29:39
get to where I am. And I think that's
01:29:40
relatable to a lot of people, especially
01:29:42
not succeeding or not feeling like you
01:29:44
succeed. Um, and
01:29:47
yeah, I think that's like and I've been,
01:29:49
you know, as soon as I talked to Beller
01:29:50
about, you know, coming in here, I was
01:29:52
like, "Yeah, this feels really right."
01:29:54
And, you know, to do it with you is
01:29:55
awesome because, you know, growing up
01:29:57
with radio and and you being such a
01:29:58
synonymous personality with with with
01:30:01
broadcasting, it's like, oh man, it's
01:30:03
it's a it's a bit of a privilege really.
01:30:04
I feel really lucky to do it. Well, I
01:30:06
feel I feel lucky that you're here,
01:30:07
Steve. Um, and I I I love it. Like yeah,
01:30:11
any any story where there's um like a
01:30:13
good dose of adversity, I think it's
01:30:15
good. I think there's a lot of lessons
01:30:16
that everyone can get from it. Yeah, for
01:30:18
sure. Um what are your best and worst
01:30:20
habits? Oh, best habits is supporting
01:30:23
others. Um worst habits is not doing
01:30:26
[ __ ] that I should right in the moment.
01:30:28
Getting better at it. Getting better.
01:30:29
It's not easy, but I'd rather sit down
01:30:32
and just chill out, man. I think
01:30:34
procrastination is a thing for a lot of
01:30:36
people.
01:30:37
It's you may as well figure it out cuz
01:30:38
it's pretty hard. Like it's the effects
01:30:41
of it are pretty bad if you don't sort
01:30:42
it out. So you may as well just get on
01:30:44
top of it. And when you do it actually
01:30:47
Yeah. Oh, it does. Yeah. It's so
01:30:49
satisfying. Um Yeah. The the more you
01:30:52
don't want to do something, the better
01:30:53
it feels once you've got it done. Yeah.
01:30:55
And the better the outcome is in your
01:30:56
life when you've done it. Yeah. What
01:30:58
What are you most afraid of?
01:31:04
Being abandoned, I guess.
01:31:06
Yeah. Yeah. Like some pretty hard like
01:31:11
Yeah. Especially like from a kid like
01:31:13
that whole exclusion thing and past
01:31:15
relationships. It's like when you think
01:31:17
something's going to be the thing you
01:31:18
have forever then and it's gone. You're
01:31:20
like ah whoa. That was a big blow. And
01:31:24
you have to figure yourself out from
01:31:25
there. Um what am I most scared of?
01:31:29
Abandoned. Like how do you how do you
01:31:30
mean? Did it feel like um with Rome New
01:31:32
Zealand like you were sort of abandoned?
01:31:34
No, I I don't know. Like
01:31:39
I don't know actually. No, it's a good
01:31:40
question.
01:31:42
It's funny though like talking about
01:31:43
that school stuff though that that stuff
01:31:45
like bullying at a primary school age.
01:31:47
It sticks with you. It happens to
01:31:49
everybody. It creates a a story or a
01:31:51
narrative in the person's mind that
01:31:53
often sticks with them for life and it's
01:31:54
hard to unpick. Oh yeah. You've got to
01:31:56
go down the rabbit hole, man. Like I had
01:31:58
an incredibly good sport psych that was
01:32:00
from High Performance Sport, another
01:32:02
amazing service that was really like
01:32:05
kindly given to us. um Jason Yul Proctor
01:32:07
and he I worked with him for I don't
01:32:10
know like six years I think from my
01:32:13
under 23s and me and him just we just
01:32:17
got stuck in man and just like started
01:32:19
with this young staff started with the
01:32:21
youth you know and then we just picked
01:32:23
away at it and I was there fortnightly
01:32:27
for six years well you know on and off
01:32:29
like this I'd say probably on average
01:32:31
once a month I'd see him and I managed
01:32:34
to like go and really get into the
01:32:36
nitty-gritty of it all. And um it was
01:32:38
pretty confronting cuz I was a pretty
01:32:40
fiery dude in boats at times. Like I'd
01:32:42
just lash out and get shitty and um and
01:32:45
it just was completely unhelpful. So me
01:32:48
and him started with that and then we
01:32:50
went down sort of the further like
01:32:52
mindfulness, meditation, watching your
01:32:54
thoughts, seeing them come by, realizing
01:32:56
that it's just a thought. It just
01:32:58
happens and just let it go and then you
01:32:59
make your decision on how you act
01:33:00
afterwards. I guess that's been sort of
01:33:02
fundamentally how I've tried to run it
01:33:04
since then. Reactivity is just such a
01:33:07
it's something that you can so easily is
01:33:10
not the word, but it's a very the first
01:33:13
the first step of of figuring your [ __ ]
01:33:15
out. That's a really good one. Watch
01:33:16
your thoughts. See what they do. Act
01:33:18
later. Even if it's a second later, or
01:33:21
even if you've just seen the anger come
01:33:23
across. If someone said something to you
01:33:24
and you go, "Oh, I didn't like that."
01:33:26
And don't immediately go.
01:33:29
You sit there. That hurt.
01:33:31
Okay, now I'll say something or listen
01:33:34
to it, have another conversation, say
01:33:36
something tomorrow. And then if you if
01:33:37
you really get really good at it, you
01:33:38
don't even have to say anything to the
01:33:40
person, you figure it out, and you carry
01:33:41
on. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's like you were
01:33:43
talking about before with the Tim New
01:33:45
Zealand example with the guy detailing
01:33:46
the boat. Yeah. And uh he said you'll
01:33:49
never get it. Um Yeah. Like immediately
01:33:53
um with any sort of confrontation, the
01:33:55
the natural reaction is to fire back.
01:33:57
Yeah. Um but it's hardly ever the right
01:34:00
reaction. Yeah. Cuz usually it's a
01:34:02
misunderstanding or some other thing.
01:34:04
Yeah. It's like angry emails. Write it,
01:34:07
leave it in the drafts, you'll look back
01:34:08
the next day and you'll be like what the
01:34:10
[ __ ] was I think? Exactly. Exactly. It's
01:34:12
ridiculous. I think that's where a lot
01:34:14
of people get stuck is like there's so
01:34:16
much reactivity in the world and it's
01:34:17
like just chill out, man. And also like
01:34:20
how big of an issue is it really? M go
01:34:22
go go go go for a run, go to the gym,
01:34:23
get that energy out of your system and
01:34:25
then make a decision cuz it's just
01:34:26
you're just too pent up about all the
01:34:27
[ __ ] Yeah. Most things you think
01:34:30
isn't even going to matter and yeah, you
01:34:32
can Yeah. Apply it anyway you want. 5
01:34:34
minutes, 5 hours, 5 days, 5 weeks, 5
01:34:36
months. And the answer is generally [ __ ]
01:34:38
no. No. Exactly. Um you've been you've
01:34:41
been really good um with the u the
01:34:43
vulnerability side of things today, like
01:34:44
expressing some emotion and also um just
01:34:47
talking through some um some really
01:34:49
crunchy stuff. Has that come as a result
01:34:50
from the therapy, you think? Uh, yeah.
01:34:52
I've never had a negative experience of
01:34:54
being vulnerable. Yeah. Ever in my life.
01:34:56
And I don't know why that is. I think
01:34:58
I'm pretty lucky maybe in that sense.
01:35:00
I've always I think I find safety in
01:35:02
friendships by being vulnerable. And
01:35:04
that the closer I am to somebody, the
01:35:05
the more safe I feel. So vulnerability
01:35:08
is really my way of feeling safe in
01:35:10
friendships. So that's been my first
01:35:12
port of call and getting more trust and
01:35:15
and you know and and that kind of thing
01:35:17
with with people. Yeah. As I said, just
01:35:20
makes me feel really safe and like and I
01:35:22
can I can rely on it, you know. Yeah. Um
01:35:25
yeah, your friend Michael Bre said that
01:35:27
in um the message he sent me. He said,
01:35:29
"Sometimes you guys can talk on the
01:35:30
phone for hours at a time." Yeah. Well,
01:35:31
we went to Pawanoi when I what was it
01:35:34
like last wait? Oh, it was we had a
01:35:37
weekend in Panoi and we didn't even
01:35:39
watch any TV. We didn't do anything. We
01:35:40
just sat around and yanned about
01:35:43
everything and anything just because me
01:35:45
and him are quite like we like to break
01:35:47
down all of the things that we're
01:35:48
thinking and really like get to the
01:35:49
bottom of it and you know and and it's
01:35:53
it's lovely. It's it's awesome. That's
01:35:55
so powerful. Yeah. Yeah. Especially for
01:35:57
guys to do it. Like there's all this
01:35:59
perception that guys like um
01:36:02
vulnerabilities weakness bro I'm just
01:36:04
like shut up like you know you know what
01:36:07
is weakness trying to be a tough guy
01:36:09
like you're bottling it up. Yeah. Like
01:36:11
and then you lash out at people like
01:36:12
what that's weakness man like there's
01:36:14
proper strength in letting yourself
01:36:16
letting yourself be better to someone
01:36:18
else you know like wear your heart on
01:36:20
your sleeve man. I love that. Yeah. Um
01:36:25
regrets.
01:36:27
Um, I don't think I have any really. I
01:36:31
not waiting for a red Lamborghini.
01:36:33
Red on would be cool. There's a nice red
01:36:36
Diablo down in Cambridge I've seen a
01:36:38
couple times. Nice car. No, no, no, no
01:36:40
regrets. Not even like, you know,
01:36:42
exiting the rowing program sooner. No,
01:36:45
because I think with every positive or
01:36:47
negative that comes in life, there is
01:36:49
it's there's a flip side to that coin.
01:36:50
Like with every negative, there is the
01:36:52
there's the corresponding positive. So,
01:36:55
you just got to look hard enough and
01:36:56
you'll find it. Whether it's something
01:36:58
you can't really see. Like for me, I
01:37:00
like like I had to trust that the work I
01:37:03
was putting in and rowing for those so
01:37:05
many years that had no real results. I
01:37:07
had to trust that that was something
01:37:08
that was worth doing. And I had no idea
01:37:11
where it was going to go. I just knew it
01:37:12
was the right thing to do. And then when
01:37:14
team New Zealand came around, it was
01:37:15
like I was just walking on air. I was
01:37:16
like, "This is going amazingly." And
01:37:19
that's where the reward comes. So
01:37:20
sometimes like you work hard for
01:37:22
something and you don't really know why.
01:37:23
Maybe you're in a job you don't enjoy.
01:37:25
Maybe it's like you're getting bullied
01:37:26
by your boss or you're having some hard
01:37:28
things at one job and you you grit
01:37:29
through it because yeah, let's get get
01:37:31
stuck in and figure it out. And then
01:37:33
it's like the next job comes along and
01:37:35
all of those things that you learned
01:37:36
from that last job then become a
01:37:38
strength in the next job and that's why
01:37:39
they love you so much. That's why they
01:37:40
appreciate you and that's why you're
01:37:41
getting paid more. And it's like all
01:37:43
that stuff happens all the time. Just
01:37:45
trust the process and keep working hard.
01:37:49
Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A
01:37:51
lot of the time when I'm doing things, I
01:37:52
tell myself, um, I don't know where this
01:37:54
is leading, but it's got to be leading
01:37:56
somewhere. And if it feels right in in
01:37:57
your like if it feels intrinsically
01:38:00
right and like your your sort of your
01:38:02
soul or whatever that is is aligned with
01:38:03
it, then just just go for it. Like I had
01:38:06
a moment when I was training for Team
01:38:08
New Zealand like before the trial and I
01:38:10
was still in Cambridge and I was doing
01:38:11
my big rides every day or every other
01:38:13
day or whatever. Um, and I I was getting
01:38:16
to the end of like a sort of 80k ride
01:38:18
and I had heaps of time the rest of the
01:38:19
day and I was like, "No, I'm going to
01:38:21
push this out to 100 and just like go an
01:38:23
extra 20k and I just did another loop
01:38:24
somewhere." And I just had this rush of
01:38:27
like, "Fuck, you're on the right track
01:38:28
here. Just keep going." And it was I
01:38:30
think there's so many moments like that
01:38:32
that people ignore. Um, and just tuning
01:38:34
into your own intuition is something
01:38:35
that's like incredible. And once you
01:38:37
start doing it, it's like there's this
01:38:39
gut feel voice that just speaks so
01:38:41
loudly. Yeah.
01:38:44
What are three words that um family,
01:38:46
friends, teammates would use to describe
01:38:48
you? Hell yeah, brother.
01:38:51
Um,
01:38:55
hell yeah, brother. What's that? Did you
01:38:57
come on for that? I don't know. I guess.
01:38:59
No, no, I No, that was just first three
01:39:01
words that came to mind for me. But that
01:39:03
would have been so much cooler in a
01:39:04
Matthew McConnA voice, by the way. Hell
01:39:05
yeah, brother. Um, all right. All right.
01:39:07
All right. All right. All right. All
01:39:09
right. There it is.
01:39:11
All right. Um,
01:39:14
no. I think I hard to know what other
01:39:17
people's perceptions are, but you know,
01:39:19
positivity, uh, enthusiasm, and support,
01:39:22
I guess, is how I'd sort of like to be
01:39:25
seen, maybe. Yeah,
01:39:28
I like that. I think that's fairly
01:39:30
accurate from the research I did. Are
01:39:32
you proud of yourself? [ __ ] yeah. Yeah,
01:39:34
man. I listened to one of the old
01:39:36
podcast with Michaela Blide, um,
01:39:37
Michael's wife now, and she said it took
01:39:41
her a while to sort of get to a point
01:39:42
where she could be happy being proud of
01:39:43
herself. Um, and I feel the same looking
01:39:47
back on your performances and and your
01:39:49
the way you've done things and and what
01:39:51
you've learned out of it. And I think,
01:39:54
yeah, I've come to a point where I can
01:39:55
be proud and not arrogantly proud, just
01:39:57
like just straight up proud. Just like,
01:39:59
yep, I'm really happy with what I've
01:40:00
done. Yeah. So, but you've done a lot of
01:40:02
work. Yeah. But you've done a lot of
01:40:04
work and you've you've you've been
01:40:05
through a lot.
01:40:07
Were you were you proud of yourself when
01:40:08
you were rowing or because of the
01:40:10
results you could never fully be proud
01:40:12
of yourself? I think I came in and out
01:40:13
of it because the results were so uh you
01:40:17
know left and right or up and down. So
01:40:19
like I think in my early under 23 years
01:40:22
I was really proud of myself and like
01:40:24
our our performance in 2016 was
01:40:26
incredible um at the world champs there
01:40:29
and um but yeah through that sort of
01:40:33
five or six year period only towards the
01:40:35
end was I proud I was like I was proud
01:40:37
of how hard it was and how I'd managed
01:40:40
to to conduct myself during it. I never
01:40:43
ever got shitty about how how badly I
01:40:45
was doing. I never let it made it anyone
01:40:47
else's problem. I just got stuck in and
01:40:49
tried to figure it out. And I think
01:40:51
that's what I'm most proud of about that
01:40:52
journey. He's like, I never made it. I
01:40:54
never got shitty about it. And I I I
01:40:57
don't know why I could have, but Yeah.
01:41:01
Yeah.
01:41:03
Yeah. Is it your DNA? Are your siblings
01:41:04
like this as well? Are your parents like
01:41:06
this? Um or My dad's definitely like
01:41:08
this. Um I'm not sure if it's shared
01:41:10
throughout the family. Yeah. Um yeah, I
01:41:14
don't know. No. Well, this has been
01:41:16
really enjoyable today. if we could
01:41:18
bottle up what you've got and um it was
01:41:20
recorded so that's a good start
01:41:21
spreading around like yeah I think
01:41:22
there's like a lot of good lessons and
01:41:24
learnings in here. Yeah. Yeah.
01:41:26
Appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. You're a good
01:41:27
dude. Yeah. Thanks Dom. You are too man.
01:41:29
I thoroughly enjoyed this. Yeah. It's
01:41:31
been really really enjoyable and um I
01:41:32
hope to see you in the next America's
01:41:34
Cup or if not um whatever you do next.
01:41:36
I'm sure you're going to do as good as
01:41:38
what you possibly can. Yeah, we'll see
01:41:39
man. Could be business, could be
01:41:41
whatever. I don't know. We'll see. It'll
01:41:43
be fun. Cam Webster, thanks so much.
01:41:45
Thank you, Dom. Cheers.
