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[Music]
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Kiwis love a
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thirst. Like Finn, we're making
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[Music]
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[Applause]
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[Music]
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waves. Generate switch online
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[Music]
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today. Jason Ryan, welcome to my
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podcast. Thanks, Dom. Great to be here.
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Great, mate. Great to have you here.
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We're recording this um on a Sunday
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morning.
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um in January. So you're in Oakuckland
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for the Sale GP and Luke Combmes. Yeah.
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Yeah, it's been a and and the All Black
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camp coming up at the end of the week.
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So I've just uh been privileged enough
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to spend two days with the the team, the
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Sale GP. Got to know um Pete and Blair
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really well. They're good mates and um
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yeah, they're pretty inspiring what they
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what they do. So it's been great to get
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right alongside their team, fully
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embraced in it. Seems like there's um
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like a bromance going on with um the
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three of you. Yeah, we get they they
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caught up with you at the end of year
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tour last year and now you're out on the
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boat with them. Yeah. And invited them
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into the sheds. We brought them in and
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got them a few tickets after the
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America's Cup and they were right on
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then and um was a bit of downtime for
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them. So it was nice that they could
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come in and spend some time with us even
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though it was pretty short with the team
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but then afterwards as well and Scott
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Dixon came in as well. It was quite a
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cool time after that England test. Yeah,
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it was really good. Do you get anything
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from these people in terms of like
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picking their brains about you high
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performance sport or are there any
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parallels between you know yaching and
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rugby? Yeah, there well obviously the
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sports are a lot different but I think
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that's when you learn the most around
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the their different ways of planning and
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how they adjust under pressure. So
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that's what I that was the main thing
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that I wanted to get out of them was
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listening to their communication, the
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messages that come through their
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headpieces and the decisions they got to
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make, but how quickly they got to make
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them. And like Sale GP is I've spent I
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spent some time with them a few years
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ago when the America's Cup was here, but
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it's just a totally different concept.
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You know, all these boats are all
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exactly the same and they don't even get
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to service them really and then they put
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on the water and then it's go race them.
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So you got the technology side of
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America's Cup whereas this is like
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sailors really going toe to toe. So um
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yeah they're they're really good. They
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complement each other really well.
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They've been massively successful New
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Zealanders, you know, like right from a
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young age group. They've won everything
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and um they continue to do so. So um it
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was really good. Enjoyed it a lot. I I
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don't know what you could get from Pete
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Burling. Like it's hard to imagine a
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more laid-back character than him. Like
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he's just he's just never never rattled.
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Hey, what's interesting? I remember um
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in when we came into team New Zealand
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and Grant Dalton um did a bit of a preo,
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it was myself and Razer went with them
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and um they said, "Oh, these two boys
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are pretty much the Mccor and Carter of
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the sailing world and you can see which
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personality is which. It's pretty clear,
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you know. Um Pete's really thorough,
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diligent, accurate when it's tight and
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makes the decisions on the field, you
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know, and um Blair's got a lot of
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information that he's given him and
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talking about the strategy side of it.
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So they both compliment each other, so
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they're good. So who is Jace Ryan? Yeah.
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Well, it's a great question. Um if you
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can't answer that, nobody can.
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Oh well I um yeah look I got a bit of a
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different story I guess to a lot of
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other coaches effect if effectively like
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I I was brought up in a um in a strong
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family I got a um sister just one sister
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my mother and father were um as dad's
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builder he was exuilder now he's retired
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um and mom is she used to work in a
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chemist years ago so um it was a a
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pretty strong typical Kiwi family really
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and um we came up and we did a lot of
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camping together when we were younger
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and um I used to do a little bit of work
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for dad. Um I think it was only one
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day. I walked home from work once but uh
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that was another story for another day.
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But um it was probably best that we
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didn't work together.
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But I um look, I I I'm just a young
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young Kiwi lad that's came came up from
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really humble beginnings and um made the
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most of an opportunity that I was given
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through a coaching pathway, a qualified
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butcher, did my apprentichip um for a
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few years in the butcher shop and then
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um worked for a mining and drilling
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company where we sold mining and
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drilling gear um through to the west
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coast and around New Zealand and then
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slowly started getting into some footy
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Um, yeah, things sort of took off.
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Really took a big risk and here we are.
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Yeah. So, did that answer your question?
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Some coffees now. Okay. Thank you. Oh,
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JJ's just coming now. Um, I'm curious
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about you and your old man. Whatever.
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So, your playing history 180 games for
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the Senam Club. Yep. Which is like
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family club. Your dad played for it,
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your son plays for it now. Yeah, it
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does. uh six games for Buller in 1999,
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14 for the West Coast from 2000 to 2003.
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Um and then into coaching, Black Ferns,
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NZ under 20s, Canterbury, Crusaders, and
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All Blacks. Yeah. With what you know now
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about, you know, coaching at the highest
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level imaginable, when you look back on
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your playing career, do you think like
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you could have done more or you could
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have been better? You know what I mean?
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Um possibly if I had have known a little
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bit more around what professionalism is.
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um you know like it was a typical club
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scene back those days you know where it
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was
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um couple of training days a week and
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then game few beers few more beers few
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more beers but um obviously that's not
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how you can sort of operate in the
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professional environment but I learned a
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lot I got a lot of people um in the club
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that are you know good good mates that I
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stay in touch with and I try to go back
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there whenever I can always watch my son
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when I'm at home I don't always go to
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the rugby club, but um I try to when I
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can cuz it keeps you keeps you level,
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you know. Um everyone's got an opinion
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in there.
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I don't mind sharing it. Yeah. Yeah. But
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it's um yeah, it's I guess the coaching
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side of it when I got into that in the
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amateur level, that's that's got some
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stuff that I've carried with me right
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through to now. So you're the All Blacks
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um scrum coach. What does that mean
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exactly? Forwards coach. Forwards coach.
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Yep. So, I do scrum, line out, attack,
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and D. Um, and I do so all the one-on-
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ones with the fords, Ford pack. U Razer
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does a little bit of work with the loose
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forwards now as well. And then, yeah,
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it's all about preparing those guys um
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up every week to to succeed. What makes
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a great
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scrum? eight guys all doing the same
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thing and um having a lot of timing
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together and cohesion as a unit with
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a pretty uh competitive mindset to go
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forward really.
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So on average like training for the All
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Blacks like what does that look like for
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you?
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A training day? Yeah. Um depends on on
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what stage of the week it is. Um like
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the you know beginning of the week we're
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just trying to get into any new
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information that we need for the
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players end of the week we sort of step
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back the
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coaches hand it over to the boys the end
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of the week so I've got anywhere between
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30 to 40 minutes over two blocks over
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the beginning of the week and then it
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dials right back to you know 10 12
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minute blocks really but you got your
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constant coaching
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um in the in the room if it's the lads
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coming in going through reviews and all
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that. It's not it's more than on the
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grass. I spend more time with the boys
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off the grass talking to them and green
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tea in the old room if they need to have
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a chat about some stuff and all that
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sort of thing. So is that like your your
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sort of your crew, your posy? So you're
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mainly just hanging out with the
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forwards? Yeah. Like a little gang. The
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low the low numbers pretty much. Yeah.
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Yeah. What? The the low numbers that are
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worn on IQ's. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no,
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they got plenty of IQ. Don't worry about
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that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's the
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biggest misconception about forwards?
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Um, it depends who you talk to really.
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Like, um, you know, I think the stats
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are pretty clear that you need, you
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know, we know that our role is to give
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the the backs some quality ball so they
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can score tries and and play some good
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rugby, but um, you know, we got some
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good men in the All Blacks.
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Yeah. So um 2022 that's when um you got
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the call up for the all black job from
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um Ian Foster Fuzzy who was coach at the
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time. You remember that? Yeah, I was
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away in Fiji. Were you on the radar?
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Like did you did you have an inkling
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that you were, you know, going to get
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shoulder tabbed or anything? Um no, not
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really. I um I was away coaching Fiji
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and I just finished super
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rugby and yeah basically was just going
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around the a few of the villages in Fiji
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which was awesome. Um spending some time
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with those guys and
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um couple of messages pinged and then
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yeah there's a bit of a phone call and I
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didn't really know what was going on. So
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I need to a little bit of homework
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myself around what the situation was and
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that sort of thing. So, um, what do you
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mean? I'll just find out what what was
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happening, you know, like are you
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offering me a job or and I needed to I
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needed the first person that I called
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was Razer.
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Um, first person rung him before my
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wife, before my family, anyone. I said,
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"Mate, I just want to let you know
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there's something going on here." Why
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was that important to you?
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because I care about him and he's given
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me some big opportunities, you know, he
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gave me an opportunity, the first coach
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together, you know, in representative
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level, we went to Brazil together um
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pretty much volunteering to go and help
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out those guys. I I had a long
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relationship with him that I valued and
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it was, you know, it was
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obviously it was a there was a
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professional component and the personal
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one and the personal one's very
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important to me. And you you ended up
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taking the job. So clearly you had um
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Razer's blessing. Yeah. Yeah. Was he
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supportive, encouraging? Was he Yeah. I
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I chose and I've said this many time I
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was given an opportunity by the All
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Blacks, take the personalities out of
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it. I was given an opportunity to coach
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the All Blacks and that's what I chose
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to coach the All Blacks.
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Um, yeah, that that must have been
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surreal. Like, were you were you you
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obviously expecting this at some point
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in your career, but maybe not in 2022?
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Oh, I don't think you can ever expect
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that you'll coach the All Blacks. It's
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too, you know, it's more than just a
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rugby team. It's a special environment
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to be a part of, and only a select few
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get to represent their country. So I I
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didn't have didn't expect that it could
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be me um or should be me or hope um yeah
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dream definitely it was something that I
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targeted Dom. It was something that I
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you know always wanted to be was coach
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the All Blacks and um you know to be
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given that opportunity was it was pretty
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amazing you know but I quickly learned
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that you can't be a fan of the All
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Blacks when you're coaching them. you
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got to be going after the boys every
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week and you know she's pretty full
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throttle you know it's um she's in an
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environment where things just move so
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quick so I couldn't be sitting around
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getting selfies and wanting flag signed
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how can you how can you not like are you
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familiar with the term imposter syndrome
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um explain it to me a little bit it's
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kind of like um where you're in an
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environment you're like oh my god like
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I'm going to be caught out like I'm I'm
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out of my depth here I'm out of my
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league you know even though you deserve
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to be in that environment obviously, but
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I I'm just wondering like how Yeah. How
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was it for you being in that environment
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with someone like say Sam Sam Whitlock
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who suddenly you're coaching and he's
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been in that team longer than what
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you've been coaching just about? Yeah.
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Look, it was um look, I I coach um I
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wear my heart on my sleeve. I'm honest.
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Um I can be pretty direct when I need to
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be, but I care. And I I knew that um
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there was some things that needed to be
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sorted in there and I didn't have a lot
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of time for conversations around what do
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you think. I just said here's here's
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what I've seen. Here's how I believe we
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can be better as a group and whether or
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not you've played one test or 140. I'll
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treat you all the same. And that was,
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you know, we had a couple of convos. I
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needed I I mean I already coached Sam,
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but I needed to I needed to get to know
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Sammy Kane and Brady Retellic and Dane
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Coohl's and all those you know great All
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Blacks that they are. So it was
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important for me to to get alongside
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them really quick and say look I'm going
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to you're going to have to trust me here
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but this is where I believe we need to
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make the shifts and really really
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quickly because effectively I had I mean
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you talk about asked me before how long
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do you get on the grass? Well, I had one
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training session, then we went to South
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Africa. But what that taught me is I
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went I went straight back to my days of
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coaching the West Coast where you didn't
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have time to plan and you might have had
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um a short session planned effectively,
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but six dairy farmers couldn't make the
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training cuz they're still milk and
00:13:16
cows. So, you had to adjust your
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session. So, you know, cutting my teeth
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at those levels really helped me in that
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moment. And it still does.
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So, um, so you call Razer, then you call
00:13:30
your wife, how Kath. Yeah. Who you've
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been with, by the way, your 24th wedding
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anniversary is coming up, eh? 25th.
00:13:36
25th. Yeah. 25th. Yeah. We'll get into
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the, um, dynamics of that relationship
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later on because um, as as someone
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that's um, had a failed marriage, like I
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I know you don't get to 25 years
00:13:46
without, you know, some good
00:13:47
communication and some, you know, good
00:13:48
stuff going on. Yeah. So, we'll get into
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that. But you call her, what's she like?
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Is she emotional about it? Um she was
00:13:55
there was a big pause and there was a
00:13:56
lot of pride and um it was do you know
00:14:00
what it was it was it was actually
00:14:03
awkward when I first started to you know
00:14:06
ring um my wife and next person that
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rang was dad um and the kids and all
00:14:11
that sort of thing but because I wasn't
00:14:12
be able to able to share it because I
00:14:14
wasn't with them I was in Fiji and then
00:14:17
I was coming to Oakuckland so I had to
00:14:19
cut ties with Fiji who were outstanding
00:14:22
um Vern C who was coaching at the time
00:14:24
was was very very good to me and um
00:14:27
something I'll never forget and a little
00:14:28
bit of advice and stuff that he gave me
00:14:30
and heading into the job but I didn't
00:14:32
actually get that chance to
00:14:34
go let's celebrate so I came back on the
00:14:37
Sunday my son was playing in the club
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final for Sydnham they won it um we went
00:14:42
into the rugby club and um it was the
00:14:45
first time they'd won it in a long time
00:14:47
and I was just really mindful of the
00:14:48
club captain even though there was a
00:14:50
little bit of media around and I just
00:14:52
got the all black job. It was all about
00:14:54
the club winning a final. It wasn't
00:14:56
about about me effectively. Um but he,
00:15:00
you know, there was something mentioned
00:15:01
across the microphone and a few bits and
00:15:02
pieces and it probably wasn't
00:15:05
until after the rugby championship I
00:15:07
actually got the family together and um
00:15:09
we had a bit of a celebration around
00:15:11
home and it was nice to see
00:15:14
um how proud they were, you know, like
00:15:16
um and and and things just happen so
00:15:19
fast in the All Blacks. And probably the
00:15:22
proudest I' I've seen dad was when he
00:15:24
went to South Africa this year. It was
00:15:26
special. Yeah. Was it? Yeah. Yeah, it
00:15:30
was unbelievable. I we we we're
00:15:33
constantly on the go with the All
00:15:34
Blacks, you know. I think it was 140 odd
00:15:36
nights. We're away home from home last
00:15:38
year, all the back end. And I'm not
00:15:39
complaining by that, by the way. But you
00:15:42
don't get sometimes that time to just
00:15:44
breathe and relax. And when I saw him
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and raise his dad, they went together
00:15:49
actually to South Africa. That's
00:15:51
awesome. And it was pretty special. And
00:15:53
it's like he rang me up actually. He
00:15:55
says, "Oh, I I'm think I'm going to go
00:15:57
to South Africa with Morris Robertson."
00:15:59
And I went, "Mate, you struggle to get a
00:16:02
car park in
00:16:03
town to catch up for a
00:16:06
coffee." I'm like, "How's this going to
00:16:09
work?" "No, no, we'll be right. We'll be
00:16:11
right." I said, "Mate, you're flying."
00:16:13
Okay, so it's all good. But um but yeah,
00:16:17
they uh and it was an experience for
00:16:18
them both too, you know, like um they
00:16:21
thought they'd actually flown the whole
00:16:23
way at night time cuz they didn't
00:16:25
realize, you know, those buttons in the
00:16:27
that the windows go dark. They had it on
00:16:29
dark the whole time. They had it on dark
00:16:32
the whole time. We get there, Ray and I,
00:16:35
and we're having a having a cough,
00:16:36
having a you know, catch up with them
00:16:38
and they're both buggered. You know,
00:16:39
it's a long way for them. You know, it's
00:16:40
something I was always mindful of. Well,
00:16:42
you got to make sure you're traveling
00:16:44
good and um but yeah, to see um to see
00:16:48
dad when we were walking on the bus at
00:16:50
Ellis Park was unbelievable. It was it
00:16:53
meant a lot to both of us. It was it was
00:16:55
a special moment. Well, just cuz you
00:16:56
could see he was like bursting in
00:16:58
bursting with pride. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:00
Yeah. And he's and just being in South
00:17:02
Africa, as I said before, he's he's a
00:17:04
builder from Christ Church that had his
00:17:06
own business and it's probably something
00:17:08
he never thought he'd be either.
00:17:10
Um, and I, you know, I I said before,
00:17:13
Dom, like as a coach, you can't be a fan
00:17:14
of the All Blacks, but you know, your as
00:17:16
your father, he he can definitely be a
00:17:18
fan of He is he's he's right on there.
00:17:21
You know, after tests, he's wanting to
00:17:22
get photos with the boys and he's right
00:17:25
amongst it. But that's cool. It's all
00:17:27
part of that's um that's such a cool
00:17:29
story about him and him and Raz's dad
00:17:31
traveling together. That is uh that's
00:17:33
the that's the cutest thing ever. Oh,
00:17:35
yeah. It's adorable. Do they know each
00:17:36
other? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they they
00:17:38
used to obviously sit at all the games
00:17:39
and go to Captain's Run during
00:17:41
Canterbury and the Crusaders and just
00:17:44
slowly got each other to know each
00:17:46
other. But um yeah, for them to to come
00:17:49
over to South Africa and see them both
00:17:50
there was was pretty awesome, you know,
00:17:53
although we couldn't get a couple of
00:17:54
wins for them that just seeing them and
00:17:56
how much they loved it was yeah was so
00:17:58
cool. Yeah. I I believe your dad was um
00:18:01
quite instrumental early on in you know
00:18:03
convincing you to quit your day job and
00:18:05
go and go and you know balls deep with
00:18:06
the coaching thing. Is that right?
00:18:08
What's the story that where was that?
00:18:09
Yeah. So I I guess when I was when I was
00:18:12
working um with you know doing a bit of
00:18:15
mining
00:18:17
um myself and another guy Mark Goldie
00:18:20
who we worked together for a long long
00:18:22
time where we um you know we we did a
00:18:25
lot of work
00:18:25
together for a number of years really.
00:18:28
It would have been probably 10. I'm not
00:18:29
actually sure. But we went through a lot
00:18:31
with Pike River Explosion. We were
00:18:33
selling gear to them and all that sort
00:18:34
of thing. There was there was a little
00:18:36
bit of stuff happening. But we we got
00:18:37
after it in those mining days and we had
00:18:39
a lot of fun. But I I was doing a lot of
00:18:42
work for um volunteer work for clubs
00:18:46
going around coaching at night and did a
00:18:49
little bit with uh work with the Black
00:18:51
Ferns. did a little bit of work with the
00:18:52
under 20s and just when I could getting
00:18:55
time off work and you know I get to a
00:18:58
training sometimes and take the shirt
00:18:59
off
00:19:01
and shirt and tie off from the sales job
00:19:03
and then chuck on a tracksuit and run
00:19:06
the session get in the car and go what
00:19:07
what actually happened there don't even
00:19:09
know I didn't even really have time to
00:19:10
plan for it but got on with it and then
00:19:13
um got sort of a few more opportunities
00:19:16
and and then I did the scrum um for
00:19:19
Razer for Canterbury
00:19:21
and was doing oh it was like 8 hours a
00:19:25
week was in the contract but it was
00:19:27
probably 15 20 so it was like wow I was
00:19:30
really on the edge and wanting more time
00:19:32
off work and and then he got the head
00:19:34
coach role for Canterbury and um he said
00:19:37
mate I want you to be my forwards coach
00:19:39
and I was like wow how
00:19:41
good but he said mate it's it's only a
00:19:44
fourmonth contract are are you going to
00:19:45
be able to do it and I said well I'm
00:19:46
going to have to get time off work and
00:19:49
um So I asked for leave without pay for
00:19:53
four months and the boss said he said
00:19:55
mate I'm sorry I just can't do it. We
00:19:58
can't do that. And I said look I
00:20:00
understand it's all good. So, so then I
00:20:02
had to make a big decision, you know, a
00:20:04
massive decision. And, um, I had a good
00:20:07
job, um, company, vehicle, and phone and
00:20:10
everything I needed and was, you know,
00:20:12
we're chipping away quite nicely as a
00:20:14
family. And, um, I sat down with dad and
00:20:17
I said, you know, what are you going to
00:20:20
I said, "This is my situation. You know,
00:20:21
what am I going to do?" He said, "Mate,
00:20:22
you got to back yourself. Make the
00:20:24
call." Didn't even hesitate. He said,
00:20:27
"If it doesn't work out, you'll get
00:20:28
something else. You're still young
00:20:29
enough. go after it or someone else will
00:20:31
get it. So I did and resigned and um
00:20:34
from my job and had for a four-month
00:20:37
contract had so had no work and after
00:20:39
that and um Keith was unreal you know we
00:20:42
were we just bought our second house
00:20:44
really and um it was it was a tough time
00:20:46
for us um and I know it's tough time for
00:20:49
a lot of families but we we went through
00:20:51
the ringer you know and I was like man
00:20:52
I've been so selfish here I've just
00:20:54
chosen you I've put myself first before
00:20:56
my family had all these stuff going
00:20:58
through my head and like have I done the
00:21:01
right thing I done the right thing. I've
00:21:02
only got now I've only got two weeks
00:21:04
left. The contract's up and just slowly
00:21:07
started getting in a little bit of work
00:21:09
um through New Zealand Rugby through a
00:21:10
little bit of resource coaching just
00:21:12
helping out there and a little bit
00:21:14
through my club ended up doing the RDO's
00:21:17
job. So got a little bit of work there
00:21:19
and then one thing sort of filtered
00:21:22
along and had enough to get by
00:21:26
but she wasn't nice during the time. It
00:21:28
was actually really tough. It was awful.
00:21:30
Really super stressful. Yeah, it was
00:21:32
stressful. It was um just not knowing
00:21:34
what we could do and if we could go
00:21:36
away. And at one stage, you know, we
00:21:38
went away with a holiday
00:21:40
um with the kids and um a payment hadn't
00:21:43
come through and I had to ask a mate if
00:21:44
he could I said, "Mate, we're out for
00:21:47
dinner. My card's just gone. I haven't
00:21:49
my pay hasn't come through and it was
00:21:52
awful."
00:21:53
And um it was just a a really [ __ ] time
00:21:56
to be honest. And I I look back at that
00:21:59
and and still think at the moment, man.
00:22:01
But the kids, they never missed out. We
00:22:03
we just got it done. And and and you
00:22:05
know, he was he was only too happy to do
00:22:08
that. Um good mate, Chopper, and um and
00:22:12
and he said, "Mate, you back yourself
00:22:14
and I love you for it. It's going to
00:22:16
work itself out, you know." So had a few
00:22:18
people around that that were giving me
00:22:20
confidence. And then we did the New
00:22:22
Zealand under 20 job um with Ray and he
00:22:25
was um applying at the same time for the
00:22:27
Crusaders head coach job, you know, and
00:22:30
when we were over there, he had done his
00:22:31
interview online and and then we went
00:22:34
out for a coffee and he said, "Mate, I
00:22:36
just set the call, got the job." And I
00:22:37
said, "Oh, mate, awesome. Just so proud
00:22:39
of you. You know, well done. You really
00:22:41
deserve it." And um again, it was his
00:22:44
moment, so it wasn't up for me to go,
00:22:47
you know, what's next for me. There was
00:22:48
no way. I just stood away from that. And
00:22:51
it was probably about 3 days after the
00:22:52
tournament, he said, "Look, I'm I'm
00:22:54
going to um with my coaching team, I'm
00:22:57
I'm going to this is who I want for my
00:22:58
back's coach and bits and pieces and my
00:23:00
manager, I'm pretty sorted." He said,
00:23:01
"But for the forwards coach, I'm going
00:23:03
to take it to the market cuz I want to
00:23:05
get the best person. Um but I want you
00:23:07
to apply, mate." And I said, "Yep, cool.
00:23:09
Got it." And it was probably the best
00:23:11
thing that could have happened to me was
00:23:13
actually applying for it. not just
00:23:15
getting it cuz I was with him, you know,
00:23:17
it actually made me think a little bit
00:23:19
more about myself. How am I going to
00:23:21
present to the board and and you know,
00:23:23
Angus Gardner, who's the rugby manager
00:23:25
down there, how was I going to package
00:23:26
something up and present something? So,
00:23:28
they thought I'd be good enough. So, and
00:23:31
got the job. Um, and that was another
00:23:34
part of the the story of me, I guess,
00:23:37
with the coaching side of it. That's a
00:23:39
hell of a story. So, how old when when
00:23:41
the um when you had that short-term
00:23:43
contract and you went in boots and all?
00:23:46
Um how old were the kids?
00:23:48
I'm terrible with years and age. Um
00:23:50
still at primary school, right? Okay.
00:23:52
Yeah. Y yeah. No, it was um she was a
00:23:56
she was a tough one. Yeah. Were you were
00:23:59
you under pressure from Kath or was she
00:24:01
No. No. No. No. She's unbelievable.
00:24:03
She's champion, you know, like she's out
00:24:06
of every, you know, I don't like
00:24:09
to single out players or, you know,
00:24:12
coaches or people in your life, but I I
00:24:15
I can single out Kath. She's been
00:24:17
unreal, mate. She's been amazing and
00:24:21
special.
00:24:23
And she she she's seen me at my best and
00:24:26
she's seen me at my worst. And
00:24:29
um she's the one that can give the old
00:24:32
shoulder tap and go, "Listen here,
00:24:33
champ. You could be getting a bit ahead
00:24:35
of yourself here." Like, is that right?
00:24:38
Under under what circumstances does she
00:24:40
uh Oh, there's been a few. You know,
00:24:42
there's there there's been a few. And um
00:24:45
yeah, she's experienced the highs and
00:24:47
lows of test rugby know what they are.
00:24:49
You know, going to a World Cup final and
00:24:51
then losing one. And she's seen she's
00:24:54
seen it all. and um she's she's always
00:24:58
just been really supportive and um it
00:25:00
means the world to me. I wouldn't be
00:25:02
able to do it without her. I wouldn't
00:25:03
there's no way I would. And we're lucky
00:25:05
now our kids are at a good age where she
00:25:08
can come away and all the kids can come,
00:25:10
you know, they're doing their own thing.
00:25:11
Ollie's 22 and uh 21 and Ollie's uh No,
00:25:15
he is 22. God, I got that wrong. And uh
00:25:19
Emma's 19, you know, so um
00:25:22
so they can they've got to experience it
00:25:24
a little bit as well. So yeah, you you
00:25:26
seem to have a good relationship with
00:25:27
them. Um I follow you on social media
00:25:29
and um actually to be fair, there's not
00:25:31
a lot of information about um Jace Ryan
00:25:34
online. Like is this your first podcast?
00:25:39
Um it must be cuz I can't remember any
00:25:42
others. Yeah, I couldn't find anything
00:25:43
online online you've done. There's a
00:25:44
couple. I did an all blacks one. I did
00:25:46
an all blacks one. Um yeah, I did an all
00:25:48
blacks one when I first got the job.
00:25:50
This is my first um Well, this looks
00:25:53
quite professional what you got set up
00:25:54
here, Dom. I'm actually quite proud of
00:25:55
you. Don't let it Oh, thanks very much.
00:25:57
Point of difference. Yeah. I just DM'd
00:26:00
you and you you got back to me straight
00:26:01
away saying, "Oh, yeah. Let's let's do
00:26:02
something in the new year." Which, um I
00:26:04
was I was surprised. Pleasantly
00:26:06
surprised. Yeah. Well, look, I followed
00:26:07
a little bit of your story behind the
00:26:09
scenes, too. Just bits and pieces. And
00:26:11
um I think it's great what you're doing.
00:26:12
So, I've had a lot of requests,
00:26:16
but it's like the question I asked you
00:26:18
when you when you came in was when I
00:26:20
said, you know, what's your point of
00:26:21
difference on your podcast? Well, and
00:26:23
you said around you've talked to, you
00:26:25
know, a few people about some different
00:26:27
stuff in a range. So, that was enough
00:26:30
for me. And I think you can just do a
00:26:32
couple. I don't think you need to be
00:26:33
like the podcast guide for not for me,
00:26:36
you know what I mean? No, I I won't go
00:26:38
on another one this year probably or but
00:26:40
there just you pick a couple of things
00:26:41
and it worked out well. Well, I
00:26:43
appreciate the opportunity. Yeah, you
00:26:44
asked me what the point of difference
00:26:46
was and I I Yeah, I don't know. I didn't
00:26:48
really have a really good answer, but I
00:26:49
think having not thought about it
00:26:51
before, the point of difference is
00:26:52
probably I try and cover um like the
00:26:55
crunchy stuff of someone's life. Like
00:26:56
life's not all greatest hits, is it? No,
00:26:58
it's not. You know, um so you try and
00:27:00
cover the good and the bad because
00:27:01
everyone's got everyone's got some bad
00:27:02
[ __ ] going on. Yeah. Um, and it's just a
00:27:05
a fact of life and it makes everyone
00:27:06
that's listening feel more normal about
00:27:08
it, I think. So, yeah. So, you get the
00:27:10
job in 2022. Oh, you hit um Dan Carter
00:27:13
up for advice as well. Yeah, DC is a
00:27:16
good good mate. Is he? Through the
00:27:18
crusade. Were you coaching when he was a
00:27:19
crusader or did he retired by then? No,
00:27:21
not at all. We just How are you, mate?
00:27:22
We got to know each other um just
00:27:24
through Christ Church, I guess. And um
00:27:26
he's someone that I got so much respect
00:27:29
for. we we can we can have a
00:27:31
professional conversation and a personal
00:27:33
one and you know we can have a lot of
00:27:35
fun and he can square me up when when
00:27:37
need be. But you know I've I've shared
00:27:40
some um some goals and bits and pieces
00:27:43
that I've got through my coaching career
00:27:45
with um a couple of people. He's one of
00:27:48
them of where I want to be. And he he's
00:27:51
challenged me and said I'm not sure
00:27:53
that's going to be good enough. And you
00:27:55
know you're just at the start line and
00:27:57
have you thought about this? It's not
00:27:58
just
00:27:59
about, you know, winning trophies. It's
00:28:02
actually about being the best you can be
00:28:05
and and in in your position and be world
00:28:07
leading at it. So, I value catching up
00:28:10
with Desi when I can. And um he gives me
00:28:13
good balance and you know, he's busy and
00:28:15
he's raising his own little family now
00:28:17
at the moment. So, his sort of roles
00:28:19
changed with what he's doing and he's
00:28:21
transitioned out of playing. But, uh,
00:28:24
the one of the many things I love about
00:28:26
him is he's just he's always been who he
00:28:29
is, you know. He's Dan Carter and he's
00:28:31
he's really well balanced. He's a you
00:28:33
know, he's from a good country town.
00:28:34
He's got a good family and um he's
00:28:37
performed at the highest level ever. So,
00:28:40
I value that. You got to have people
00:28:41
like that that you can tap into, you
00:28:43
know. Yeah. And what about um Mccau? Cuz
00:28:46
I saw on your Instagram you he's like a
00:28:47
golf buddy of yours. Yeah, we started.
00:28:49
Oh well, I haven't got many golf buddies
00:28:51
cuz tell you what, my timing is
00:28:53
horrendous at times. But um does he go
00:28:55
right? Please tell me he's [ __ ] at golf.
00:28:57
No, no, Rick goes good. Does he? Yeah,
00:28:59
he goes good. Yeah. No, he's he's good.
00:29:00
We just played in the Odmata Classic
00:29:03
actually um which was quite cool. We got
00:29:06
a place down there and um No, just sort
00:29:08
of got to know Richie um probably more
00:29:11
so when being in the All Blacks. So um
00:29:14
and he's been good too. I've had some
00:29:16
good coffees with him. And you got to
00:29:18
have those people away that you can just
00:29:19
sort of bounce a couple of
00:29:22
ideas with and they might either
00:29:25
challenge you on it or they might um
00:29:28
give you confirmation that actually no
00:29:30
that that's really good. You're going
00:29:31
well there. So um and they got a massive
00:29:34
legacy with the All Blacks. So it's
00:29:35
important you talk to those guys. I I
00:29:37
believe Yeah. Yeah, Sean Fitzpatrick
00:29:39
will be another one and JK. I enjoy
00:29:41
connecting with them and both different
00:29:43
and just offer different perspectives on
00:29:45
things. So, it's cool.
00:29:48
Well, they are some big names. Yeah.
00:29:50
Yeah. Like iconic All Blacks, four of
00:29:52
them. Yeah. Yeah, they are. And they,
00:29:55
you know, they're a massive part of what
00:29:57
the legacy of the All Blacks is. And
00:30:00
um you know, the All Blacks is more than
00:30:01
just a rugby team. And those guys have
00:30:03
made that what it is. So, so when you
00:30:06
first get that job in 2022 and you
00:30:08
joined the All Black Squad, like are you
00:30:09
um are you [ __ ] bricks in that first
00:30:11
week? Do you know what I was Are you
00:30:13
nervous or I I wasn't I wasn't at all. I
00:30:16
was
00:30:17
like cuz I knew what I needed to do. So,
00:30:20
it wasn't like I was going in there
00:30:22
trying to make [ __ ] up. I was I actually
00:30:24
had a real clear plan of what it was and
00:30:26
a couple of key areas and probably more
00:30:29
so just given the boys a bit of
00:30:31
confidence because you know they'd just
00:30:33
been beaten by Ireland in a series at
00:30:35
home. It wasn't like you were going in
00:30:37
there and there was lots of high fives
00:30:38
going on so just being really upfront
00:30:41
and honest with them and
00:30:44
um getting on with it really.
00:30:47
And then uh so 2023 rolls around so this
00:30:50
is your first full year in the in the
00:30:51
all black environment. That's the the
00:30:53
World Cup year.
00:30:54
Um yeah, how was how was that for you?
00:30:58
Cuz that I don't know exactly when it
00:31:00
was during the year, but that's when
00:31:01
there was this like public sort of um
00:31:03
push for Razer to become things got real
00:31:06
messy for a while there. E so Ian Foster
00:31:08
was the coach and there was this sort of
00:31:10
public push for Razer to become the
00:31:12
coach. And what was it like being in the
00:31:14
environment when you're mates with Razer
00:31:17
and you're working with Fozy and this
00:31:19
whole thing's going on? Yeah. Oh, look
00:31:21
that that was that had sort of passed by
00:31:23
really. That was that was the end of the
00:31:25
year before. Okay. Um the World Cup year
00:31:27
was clean when you were at but that was
00:31:29
a little bit messy at times. But like I
00:31:31
said before, you've always got to have
00:31:32
those two different types of
00:31:34
conversations, the professional one and
00:31:36
the personal one. So we're pretty good
00:31:38
at that. And the the World Cup. Yeah.
00:31:40
What's it like? Um so what happened you
00:31:43
you got to the finals and you got beaten
00:31:44
in the final, right? Yep. Yeah. What's
00:31:47
that like?
00:31:49
That's a
00:31:50
real clear question.
00:31:53
Holy heck. What's that like? Um, [ __ ]
00:31:56
Yeah. Awful. But if but if you if you if
00:32:00
you lose in the final and you can look
00:32:01
yourself in the mirror and you know
00:32:02
you've done everything and you played a
00:32:03
good game and you know can you be sort
00:32:06
of at peace with it or never really? Oh,
00:32:09
it's it's similar. There's still there's
00:32:12
still that burnt memory there and it
00:32:15
should be you know like you know the the
00:32:17
expectation is the All Blacks should win
00:32:20
every test and you know reality is
00:32:21
that's not going to happen but it's how
00:32:23
we respond to those but honestly thought
00:32:25
we were in a great spot um as a whole
00:32:28
management group, coaching group and
00:32:30
playing group to win that game and right
00:32:33
up until even probably the last minute I
00:32:35
still thought we were going to win it. I
00:32:36
really did. So, I think the boys um gave
00:32:40
it all gave it their all and you're
00:32:42
always going to get a few calls and bits
00:32:43
and pieces that go against you. That's
00:32:45
footy and um but yeah, no, it was pretty
00:32:49
it was pretty awful in the sheds, you
00:32:51
know, like seeing guys pull the jersey
00:32:53
off for the last time that have given so
00:32:55
much. That
00:32:56
was that's a memory that will stick to
00:32:59
me with me for a long time, you know.
00:33:01
Who was that who was finishing at the
00:33:03
end of 23? Well, there was a few. It was
00:33:05
um um Dane Coohl's um Sammy
00:33:09
Whitlock you know that was Brody
00:33:12
Retellic that was in my my area the
00:33:14
forwards so that you sort of you stay a
00:33:17
little bit more closer to them in a way
00:33:19
you know Aaron Smith been given great
00:33:21
service and so it was yeah it was tough
00:33:24
you know it was awful seeing them you
00:33:27
know know that the that's the last time
00:33:29
they'll wear the jersey and the it's
00:33:31
been a big part of their life and
00:33:32
they're known as great Kiwis you M so it
00:33:35
was it was pretty rough but you know
00:33:38
we we had a good couple of days together
00:33:41
and 660 came in to the hotel and played
00:33:44
a few tunes and we're just sort of
00:33:46
sitting around and chilling. It was also
00:33:49
a a coaching group and you know some of
00:33:50
the coaches in the management group sort
00:33:52
of didn't know where they were at. So it
00:33:53
was a it was a bit of a rough time but
00:33:56
um it's professionalism isn't it? It's
00:34:00
um you can't sugarcoat everything and
00:34:02
everything's just got to get on with it,
00:34:04
you know, like decisions were made and
00:34:06
you just got to move forward.
00:34:09
And it's sport, isn't it? It is sport.
00:34:11
You can't you can't always win. Um you
00:34:13
can't even though there is an
00:34:15
expectation that the All Blacks always
00:34:16
must win. Yeah. Yeah, there is. It's a
00:34:19
lot of pressure. Yeah, it it is. You
00:34:21
know, it's sometimes like we either lose
00:34:24
or don't win good enough,
00:34:27
right? you know it's um but you know
00:34:30
when when people have and we're a small
00:34:32
country when they haven't got an opinion
00:34:34
that that will be the worry you know
00:34:36
it's like oh we don't actually care that
00:34:38
that's so but yeah it's keeps you keeps
00:34:42
you driven that's for sure so you your
00:34:44
role as um forwards coach after a game
00:34:47
like um yeah losing a world cup final uh
00:34:50
what does your role become do you become
00:34:51
sort of like a counselor or you know to
00:34:53
the the players are you consoling them
00:34:55
like What's your sort of role at that
00:34:58
point? Yeah, good, great question. I
00:35:01
I whether we win or lose, I'll go and
00:35:04
sit alongside the boys. You might just
00:35:06
pick a few that might be feeling a bit
00:35:07
and just sit in the shed and just
00:35:10
um or you know, make sure that they're
00:35:13
still proud of their performance and who
00:35:15
they are. And some of them just don't
00:35:18
need any opinion. Whereas, oh, we you
00:35:20
might go up and go, oh, what if we had
00:35:22
have done that, we would have it's too
00:35:25
late now. hypotheticals. Hypothetical,
00:35:28
it's no good. So, just get alongside
00:35:30
them and and just sit beside them and
00:35:32
and and just see what happens or a combo
00:35:34
or and and give them a little bit of
00:35:36
confidence if you need to. But, you
00:35:37
know, they go they build their week and
00:35:40
they put everything into winning a test
00:35:44
match over 80 minutes. It's built up
00:35:47
over eight days basically from when you
00:35:50
know you start building your other week.
00:35:51
So there's a lot goes into it and that
00:35:53
that moment in the shed whether or not
00:35:55
you win or lose is actually a really
00:35:57
special time because it's just us.
00:35:59
There's no media in there. There's no um
00:36:03
sponsors or anything. you know, they'll
00:36:05
come in and but it's just there's that
00:36:07
one moment where it's just the team and
00:36:09
call it the all black circle and it's a
00:36:11
good chance just to say a couple of
00:36:12
things and we might go around the around
00:36:15
the room and and mention a couple of
00:36:16
things and we always look forward to
00:36:20
um what's ahead you know I remember Bod
00:36:24
said you know after one of the test
00:36:25
matches um I think it was the second
00:36:27
test after England actually and in Eden
00:36:30
Park he said that this is a special
00:36:33
circle that we should never take for
00:36:34
granted. So, and that was like, oh, that
00:36:36
was that was cool to hear cuz it is. And
00:36:38
he's, you know, he's he's a great leader
00:36:40
and a great man and All Black's been a
00:36:43
big part of his life, too, you know,
00:36:45
and hearing things like that is just
00:36:48
little
00:36:49
reminders. How good.
00:36:52
Yeah. You seem to um Yeah, you you have
00:36:55
a lot of gratit lot of awareness about
00:36:58
um the privilege. Yeah. Yeah. That's
00:37:00
something I get from your Instagram.
00:37:01
Like there's a lot of posts where you
00:37:02
you acknowledge just um how lucky you
00:37:04
are to be in this position and yeah it
00:37:06
is a privilege and and um you know
00:37:08
there's a lot of pressure with that as
00:37:10
well but you know pressure is a
00:37:11
privilege as well and pressure just
00:37:13
means someone's relying on you doesn't
00:37:15
it that's the way I look at it but you
00:37:17
got to you know you got to be pretty
00:37:20
level with the All Blacks um I believe
00:37:22
and keep it pretty centered
00:37:26
um and bring the fans with you and the
00:37:29
people and through the good times and
00:37:31
and the tough times.
00:37:33
And yeah, it's it's a it's a job that
00:37:36
I'll never
00:37:38
um take for granted or never not prepare
00:37:40
for. It's a job that I love and it's a
00:37:44
job that takes a lot out of out of you
00:37:46
as well. And you know, talk about the
00:37:47
World Cup before there Dom like I
00:37:49
couldn't have given much more if if
00:37:51
anything, you know, physically, mentally
00:37:53
and it took me a long time to come
00:37:57
probably back to zero and restart. Like
00:38:00
I remember Christmas that year. It was
00:38:01
just I probably might as well not have
00:38:03
even been at the dinner.
00:38:06
Wow. Yeah. It was awful really. And and
00:38:07
and and it was, you know, a bit of a
00:38:09
reset. And
00:38:11
um yeah, you
00:38:14
just Yeah. But but look, no one's died,
00:38:18
have they? You know, it is sport like
00:38:20
you said before. You know, you can get
00:38:22
on. There's people in worse situations,
00:38:24
but you know, when you when you build up
00:38:27
for a pinnacle event, it's a little bit
00:38:28
different because you got the best of
00:38:30
the best at their best in the
00:38:32
tournament.
00:38:33
Yeah, that's why I asked that question
00:38:35
before like what's it like when when you
00:38:36
lose the World Cup final because it's
00:38:38
the tournament was good, right? Like you
00:38:39
had that game against Ireland where
00:38:41
everyone was calling that like the final
00:38:43
even though it was the semi-final or
00:38:44
quarterfinal. Quarter. Yeah. So, it was
00:38:46
a hell of a game. So when you do
00:38:48
everything right and then you just trip
00:38:49
up at the last hurdle, I wonder if you
00:38:51
can sort of be more at peace with the
00:38:52
result. Suppose that's what I was
00:38:54
getting at. Yeah. Oh, on that. Um, so
00:38:57
was it the final where Sam got red cut?
00:39:00
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Talk us through
00:39:04
that. What's that like? Like you that's
00:39:06
it was heartbreaking. Well, that your
00:39:07
first person you get round is Sam. Mhm.
00:39:10
You know, like and then I
00:39:12
Yeah. I I got so I've said this many
00:39:15
times. I have so much respect for Sam
00:39:17
Kane. I always have right from when he,
00:39:19
you know, played super rugby and
00:39:22
um broke his neck playing a test match
00:39:25
and he's um you got to know his mom and
00:39:28
dad really well and you know he he was
00:39:30
feeling it after that game and I can't I
00:39:33
I cannot imagine what he was going
00:39:34
through. Yeah, he was and and but he but
00:39:36
he's such a he's just such a good man.
00:39:39
He's got a great family behind him. He's
00:39:41
got a good group of mates so he'll get
00:39:43
through it you know and he did and came
00:39:46
back last year and you know people
00:39:48
probably thought he wasn't going to be
00:39:49
picked or get a crack and he effectively
00:39:52
became the inform seven. We couldn't not
00:39:54
pick him and but his value he added off
00:39:56
the field and the leadership and you
00:39:58
know it really helped the leadership
00:39:59
group and that sort of thing was was
00:40:02
really important and um it says a lot
00:40:04
about his character. You know you had
00:40:06
that bit of resilience in your life. You
00:40:08
know, it's not always roses and
00:40:10
everything's going good. As you said,
00:40:12
you know, what was the name you called
00:40:13
the record uh of life just before? Oh,
00:40:16
the greatest hits. The greatest hits.
00:40:18
It's not the greatest hits. There's a
00:40:19
couple of Every great story has some
00:40:21
adversity. A couple of bad songs in
00:40:22
there, too, along the way, isn't there?
00:40:24
A couple of beats, but you get through
00:40:25
it. Yeah. But what can what can you say
00:40:28
to him at that point to make it to make
00:40:29
anything better? I love you.
00:40:33
Yeah, it's powerful. M yeah I often do
00:40:37
it. Yeah. With the boys.
00:40:41
When you when you were playing rugby for
00:40:42
Buller in West Coast like 25 years ago,
00:40:44
like no one would have said the L word,
00:40:46
right? No.
00:40:49
Maybe loser.
00:40:52
Yeah. No, but no, no one uh Yeah. No one
00:40:54
no coaches telling their players they
00:40:56
love them. No. Um I I heard um Yeah, I
00:40:59
think it was Ian Foster. I think I heard
00:41:01
him say that about Mark Deier. There was
00:41:02
like an incident where he got stood down
00:41:04
for a game and in the the press
00:41:05
conference he said something like oh you
00:41:07
we love Mark but blah blah blah and that
00:41:09
was what stood out to me. It was like um
00:41:12
I don't know just that sort of openness
00:41:13
or vulnerability with um the All Blacks
00:41:15
now. Yeah, there is. And it's it's a
00:41:17
different these these young men have
00:41:20
come through a distant different system
00:41:23
of um the outside world, social media,
00:41:27
how they were how they were taught at
00:41:29
school. It's it's a different group of
00:41:32
people coming through, you know, the
00:41:33
phones and the the popups and the alerts
00:41:36
and the Snapchat, the Instagram, the
00:41:38
Facebook. So, everything's everything's
00:41:41
changed compared to what it was a few
00:41:44
years ago, like probably even 10 years
00:41:46
ago. So, so how you coach them and how
00:41:49
you get to understand them that that's
00:41:51
actually a part of their makeup and how
00:41:53
you do reviews and previews. It's almost
00:41:56
like a little short sharp Instagram
00:41:57
reel. Just bang bang bang. Let's get
00:41:59
some punchy moments here that can that
00:42:03
they can relate to cuz they've been you
00:42:05
know it's not all powerpoints and words
00:42:07
is it? You switch off a bit.
00:42:10
Yeah. What what do you do you say
00:42:12
anything to them about social media
00:42:14
and you reading the comments or anything
00:42:17
like that or is it just up to the
00:42:18
individual? Well, there's there's
00:42:20
there's conversations go on with you
00:42:22
know through the the wider management
00:42:24
group. We look after, you know, we look
00:42:26
after the boys and make sure they do,
00:42:27
you know, like they have a plan around
00:42:30
it. You know, the the professional sport
00:42:34
environment is is different to like a
00:42:36
dayto-day at work. You know, if you have
00:42:38
a bad day at work on a Monday, the the
00:42:40
boss might give you a bit of a a rack up
00:42:43
and a good chat to whereas if you have a
00:42:45
bad day at work at the All Blacks, the
00:42:47
whole country gives you a rack up. But
00:42:50
but but that's that's what we're in. I'm
00:42:51
not saying that that's, you know, wrong.
00:42:55
It's that's where we live. You know,
00:42:58
it's everyone's got an opinion and
00:43:00
people, you know, often I feel it. They
00:43:03
they look at you differently after a win
00:43:04
and loss when you're walking down the
00:43:05
street. Maybe that's me,
00:43:09
but it's true. Yeah. Um, yeah, it's an
00:43:12
interesting time in the way because like
00:43:13
15 years ago, I suppose um the the
00:43:15
trolls um were just maybe like the
00:43:17
sports journalists from the Herald or
00:43:19
from stuff, but now it's like everyone's
00:43:21
a potential troll. It's it's uh it's a
00:43:24
lot it's a lot to cope with as a a young
00:43:26
player, I guess. Yeah, it is. And and
00:43:28
and it's a lot to cope for as coach,
00:43:30
too. you know, we've got families and
00:43:32
you get the odd spray that you
00:43:34
might I'm I can let it go, you know,
00:43:38
like it is, but it's a bit of a nick in
00:43:40
the family more than anything. And when
00:43:41
that starts affecting them and you know,
00:43:44
the daughter, you know, M's, oh, did you
00:43:47
read that, Dad? That that upset me. It's
00:43:49
like, well, okay, let's have a chat
00:43:51
about that. Um, I'm okay, but are you?
00:43:55
No, I'm not.
00:43:57
Okay. Oh, she's she's heard it.
00:43:59
something she's read about. Yeah, you
00:44:01
just hear bits and pieces, but right,
00:44:03
we're we're pretty open plan in our
00:44:04
family. Like, wow, we're really open
00:44:06
plan actually. There's a lot of combos
00:44:08
happen. Really? What do you mean open
00:44:09
plan? Well, we just um we talk about
00:44:13
everything.
00:44:15
Like everything. You seem to have a
00:44:16
really good relationship with your kids.
00:44:18
Yeah, I do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I do. Yep.
00:44:21
And they're both different. Um
00:44:24
um you know, my son Ollie, he's I'm so
00:44:27
proud of what he's doing at the moment.
00:44:28
he's he's going to be a qualified
00:44:29
builder next month and and same with
00:44:31
them. She's done a couple of years in
00:44:33
retail now and she's she's working and
00:44:36
finding her way and just they're just
00:44:37
trying to work life out as you do and
00:44:40
and you know sometimes you just got to
00:44:42
take a breather once they finish school
00:44:43
and go well you don't have to do this
00:44:45
this this and this just just go and
00:44:47
enjoy it and you'll work it out. Yeah.
00:44:51
Yeah. on your Instagram. Um yeah, you've
00:44:53
been on a summer holiday and you've been
00:44:54
out on the boat with them wakeboarding
00:44:55
and stuff and um I think that says a lot
00:44:57
that they're at that age in life where
00:44:59
they can decide to spend holidays with
00:45:01
their parents or not and they're
00:45:02
choosing to spend it with you. So I
00:45:04
think that's um it's humbling. Yeah,
00:45:06
they come and go. Like sometimes four
00:45:08
nights is a bit much for them or for you
00:45:11
guys? Oh, probably for them. But no,
00:45:14
they they've got a good group of mates.
00:45:15
They've all got awesome friends and they
00:45:17
all come around and bring them with them
00:45:18
and um you know it's it's a big part of
00:45:21
it. Their friends have helped shape them
00:45:23
who they are. So you got to bring them
00:45:25
along for the ride. Eh oh that's cool.
00:45:26
I'm keen to get more into that. There's
00:45:28
just a couple more rugby questions and
00:45:29
then we'll finish off that chapter and
00:45:31
then get into the get into the family
00:45:32
stuff if that's okay with you. Yeah, no
00:45:34
worries. Yeah. So the the 2024 season,
00:45:36
so um Razer comes in and it's like the
00:45:39
whole the whole dream team together. How
00:45:41
was how was 2023 different to 2024?
00:45:44
Um well look there was a lot of change I
00:45:47
guess of of how the um the show was
00:45:49
going to roll but there was a lot of
00:45:52
stuff that was important around legacy
00:45:54
that still needed to be there. So
00:45:56
getting the balance right and
00:45:58
understanding different personalities
00:45:59
again and working with different people
00:46:01
and the boys them getting to know
00:46:04
different people in the management group
00:46:06
and all that sort of took a bit of time
00:46:07
but I think we transitioned through that
00:46:09
and you know we we give last year you
00:46:12
know a pass mark I think we played some
00:46:14
big test we played all the biggest ones
00:46:15
you could play so it was good for us I
00:46:18
reckon that's the way I look at it was
00:46:19
unreal and we played all the top four
00:46:21
nations and you know two tests away in
00:46:23
South Africa well you ain't getting
00:46:24
better than that. So, it was good for us
00:46:27
and we'll see the rewards of it. I'm
00:46:29
sure we all will be better of it as a
00:46:30
group. So, it was just a matter of
00:46:32
transitioning into understanding the the
00:46:35
different dynamics really of how
00:46:36
everything works. And you yourself and
00:46:38
Razer, you've um you know, you know each
00:46:40
other's um styles uh intimately. You've
00:46:43
worked together for years. It's been
00:46:44
very very successful. Um what was it
00:46:47
like for you seeing him in that
00:46:48
environment with so much more pressure
00:46:50
on him? because I feel like um Crusaders
00:46:52
normally won but when when they lost it
00:46:54
was like the rest of the country was
00:46:55
kind of happy about it. Suddenly you're
00:46:57
in a situation where I don't know your
00:47:00
losses are magnified. Yeah, they are
00:47:02
magnified. Not a lot changes. I'm really
00:47:04
clear on my role as an assistant coach
00:47:06
and you know I got to be eyes and ears
00:47:09
for the for the boss no matter who that
00:47:11
is. You know, you got to look after them
00:47:13
and number one make sure I'm owning my
00:47:15
own area of the fords but number two
00:47:18
just just keeping an eye of things
00:47:20
around the peripheral that they might
00:47:22
miss and just mention a couple of
00:47:24
things. You know, it's a big beast the
00:47:25
All Blacks and you know he'll be better
00:47:27
for the job um this year. We all will be
00:47:30
um as a group the whole the whole team
00:47:33
players management everyone um we'll be
00:47:36
better for it but you know probably just
00:47:39
feeling out the you know the the
00:47:41
different media expectations
00:47:44
you know super rugby you might have you
00:47:46
know your your one reporter with a
00:47:48
notebook
00:47:49
um all black training you got 30
00:47:52
cameras. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's different.
00:47:55
I watched um everything I could online
00:47:57
um about you on YouTube and uh there was
00:47:59
a couple of press conferences there.
00:48:00
You're searching me hard.
00:48:02
E Well, good homework, Jay. I figure if
00:48:05
someone's going to going to um you know,
00:48:07
give me some of their valuable time um
00:48:09
the least I can do is make sure I'm
00:48:10
thoroughly researched for it. Yeah. But
00:48:12
the some of these press conferences I
00:48:14
saw where there's like maybe 20 or 30
00:48:15
microphones there, like the first um
00:48:18
couple of All Black press conferences,
00:48:19
like were you nervous? Is that
00:48:20
intimidating? you scared you're going to
00:48:22
say the wrong thing or No, I'm pretty
00:48:25
clear on who I am as a person, you know.
00:48:27
I
00:48:29
I'm not trying to really be anyone else.
00:48:31
So, I was just did it the same way I did
00:48:33
my first coaching session. I was just
00:48:34
pretty honest and tried not to over
00:48:37
complicate it, you know. It was yeah it
00:48:39
was there was a decent media scrum there
00:48:42
and a spread and it was a you know an
00:48:45
interesting time that was going on in
00:48:47
the background but um I just had to deal
00:48:49
with what was in front of me then and
00:48:53
you know pretty proud that we we made
00:48:55
some shifts in that area just to do that
00:48:57
you know but um yeah it's all it's all
00:49:00
part of it. Okay. Who are the best
00:49:02
players you've coached? Oh,
00:49:05
there can be more than one and it can be
00:49:07
for different reasons.
00:49:10
Oh. Oh, that's a tough one. That's
00:49:13
that's a tough one to identify cuz
00:49:16
they're all different, you know, like I
00:49:18
they've all they've all taught me
00:49:20
something. Every player you coach um I
00:49:23
learn from.
00:49:26
Um there's
00:49:28
probably yeah I I can't answer the best
00:49:31
player I've coached but there's been
00:49:33
some some players that have given me
00:49:36
some
00:49:37
direction in my coaching that have
00:49:39
helped me and one would be Sam Whitlock
00:49:42
when we were coaching super rugby uh I
00:49:44
think it was 2018 2019 I'm pretty sure
00:49:46
he'd be happy for me to share this but
00:49:49
he said to me we were playing the warars
00:49:51
and he said one morning should we catch
00:49:52
up for a coffee I was like oh yeah sweet
00:49:54
where are we going to do
00:49:56
And he he just he uh he basically just
00:49:58
squared me up and and just said a couple
00:50:02
of things to me that I just needed to
00:50:04
probably reset myself of how I was and
00:50:07
my my uh body language and how I was
00:50:10
coaching and just a little bit of that
00:50:12
off-field balance between, you know,
00:50:14
player and coaches and and where
00:50:17
you can't cross the line, you know,
00:50:20
being out late or whatever that was.
00:50:21
just it was just a I probably muddled
00:50:23
that what he what he said but he he just
00:50:25
he just made me think about so he didn't
00:50:28
say you should or you need he said he
00:50:31
said it'd be good if you could just
00:50:33
consider a couple of things here that
00:50:35
could make you better because if you
00:50:37
want to go to where you want to go you
00:50:39
probably just need to make a couple
00:50:40
adjustments and it was good feedback um
00:50:45
tech technically technically and a
00:50:46
little bit of just a little bit of
00:50:47
personal stuff that he he just really um
00:50:50
and I thanked for it so many times. He
00:50:52
he
00:50:54
it it helped me. It was definitely It
00:50:56
definitely came at a very good time. Um
00:50:59
you can't be a lad and I probably was a
00:51:02
little bit um in the younger days but
00:51:05
you know I was I was going to ask you
00:51:07
about that. How do you because obviously
00:51:09
you want to be friendly with the players
00:51:11
but I suppose you can't be their friend.
00:51:12
Okay. Personal and professional, you
00:51:15
know, like um I was privileged enough to
00:51:18
attend Ethan the Groot's wedding, you
00:51:20
know, went went down to his wedding. It
00:51:21
was pretty cool. Um really enjoyed it
00:51:24
and we've had some good professional
00:51:26
conversations and really direct. I mean,
00:51:29
I get to be a part of decisions for
00:51:33
um their career, you know, yes or no
00:51:36
with contracting with all the players
00:51:38
and that that's a privileged position as
00:51:40
well. And it's also even more so where
00:51:43
you got to be honest and that's working
00:51:44
with the boss and making sure Ray and I
00:51:47
are aligned in those decisions and all
00:51:48
that sort of thing. So you got to know
00:51:51
and they got to know that when it's
00:51:54
professional time as opposed to putting
00:51:56
the hand on the shoulder and making sure
00:51:58
you care for them. That's what I'll
00:51:59
always do. You know, boys often come in
00:52:02
for a green tea in my room now and again
00:52:04
they'll they'll know the the jug's
00:52:06
always on. Marty and him and I had a
00:52:08
good catch up in South Africa and just
00:52:12
not talking footy just you know come and
00:52:14
have a good chat about things and I've
00:52:16
been really privileged that some of the
00:52:18
boys have shared some really good stuff
00:52:19
with me and I feel really privileged
00:52:21
that they have and and be open to do
00:52:24
that but they know it won't go any
00:52:26
further you know so and that's a big
00:52:28
part of them being successful on a
00:52:30
Saturday is making sure that they feel
00:52:33
valued share big stuff with you as an as
00:52:36
and yeah, maybe stuff that's going on at
00:52:38
home or just personal stuff. Yeah,
00:52:40
potentially. And you know, we just got
00:52:41
to make sure there's a good support
00:52:42
around them. You know, it's a long time
00:52:44
away. And
00:52:46
how how do they how can they have the
00:52:48
confidence that you're not going to go
00:52:49
and you know, pass that information on
00:52:51
to the boss razor? Oh, I think it's just
00:52:53
trust, you know, like it's
00:52:56
Yeah, I'm sure that all the coaches have
00:52:59
different conversations with players in
00:53:02
a in a personal level and, you know, we
00:53:04
if there's something that probably needs
00:53:06
to be addressed that they might need
00:53:07
some more support in that area, we got
00:53:08
to make sure we do it. And where does um
00:53:11
where does your communication style like
00:53:13
come from? Is it just something you've
00:53:14
worked on over the years? Yeah, probably
00:53:17
just um I don't know. I think I think
00:53:20
dad is pretty upfront with how he, you
00:53:23
know, communicates with people and he's
00:53:25
pretty honest and
00:53:28
um he's humble and I've I've seen him as
00:53:32
as I've grown up working with people and
00:53:35
his manner and that sort of things is
00:53:37
probably big part I'd say as well
00:53:40
as sales jobs. When I was doing a sales
00:53:43
job, you got to read cues, you know,
00:53:45
like you go and introduce yourself to
00:53:47
someone for the first time and you just
00:53:49
have a good yarn and soon as you walk
00:53:51
out, you know that card's gone straight
00:53:52
in the bin.
00:53:54
I'm not buying anything out of you.
00:53:56
Yeah. But um you must have to have a lot
00:53:58
of a lot of tough conversations. And you
00:53:59
and I before the podcast, we were
00:54:01
talking about um Ivan Clearary's book
00:54:03
which we both um listened to over
00:54:05
summer. There was a quote that I got
00:54:07
from there that I loved. It was like um
00:54:09
I think Ivan got it from Wayne Bennett
00:54:10
or Craig Bellamy, but the saying was um
00:54:13
tough conversations don't have to be
00:54:14
tough conversations. No, which I really
00:54:16
loved. But um yeah, like how do you tell
00:54:18
someone that you know they're not making
00:54:20
the All Blacks? Yeah. Well, look, the
00:54:22
the big conversations that comes from
00:54:25
the head coach if they're not making the
00:54:27
All Blacks and then I will have to, you
00:54:30
know, back that up if it's in my area
00:54:31
and have a conversations. always try and
00:54:33
do it face to face as opposed to phone
00:54:36
call. You know, give them a moment, you
00:54:40
know, like if effectively every Monday
00:54:42
is a job interview. Mhm. You know, we
00:54:45
got 36 players, 23 can play on the
00:54:48
field, you know, so they just want to
00:54:51
know, am I in the test team for this
00:54:52
week? And the All Blacks isn't a
00:54:54
development team. We're expected to win.
00:54:56
And we got to pick what we believe is
00:54:58
the best team every single week.
00:55:01
And whether or not that's the balance of
00:55:02
youth or experienced, well, it's that's
00:55:06
the decision we need to make for the
00:55:08
week. But that's how you know they feel.
00:55:10
But we they still got opportunities to
00:55:11
train well. But you just got to be
00:55:13
honest with them. You know, you you
00:55:15
can't muddle your words. You just have
00:55:18
to be honest. And sometimes players, you
00:55:22
might say, "You're not getting a game
00:55:23
this week. It's through nothing you've
00:55:24
done. We're just giving someone else an
00:55:26
opportunity to have a crack for this
00:55:28
test match. We believe that's the best.
00:55:30
Yeah, but what have I Yeah, but but what
00:55:32
do I need to do? You're doing everything
00:55:34
right. Yeah, but why aren't I
00:55:36
playing? Cuz we're just giving someone
00:55:38
else an opportunity. So, it's nothing
00:55:40
I've done.
00:55:42
No. Okay. Thanks for being honest. Do
00:55:45
you do you um do you just speak from the
00:55:47
heart or do you sort of like, you know,
00:55:49
like think out what you're going to say
00:55:50
in your head before you deliver this
00:55:52
news? Oh, I think you I'm big on just
00:55:55
being authentic and not having you took
00:55:59
off all this list. I got to go this,
00:56:00
this, this, and this. The reality is if
00:56:03
you tell someone not they're not in the
00:56:05
squad for that week, it might be just
00:56:08
let's catch up in the middle of the week
00:56:09
and we'll go through it cuz all they
00:56:11
hear is why and then you might say why,
00:56:13
but they don't really hear it. You know,
00:56:15
it's like when someone delivers you a
00:56:16
bit of [ __ ] news, it's like you're not
00:56:19
really hearing the reasoning. So, you
00:56:21
need a bit of time to process it. So,
00:56:25
sometimes you got to do that. Does it
00:56:27
get easier the more you do it? No, I
00:56:29
don't think so. Not when you care about
00:56:31
the lads so much. You know, it doesn't,
00:56:34
you know, you don't you don't I don't
00:56:35
think you'll ever get any ease or joy
00:56:37
out of telling someone they're not
00:56:39
wanted effectively for that that game or
00:56:42
whatever that is. I won't.
00:56:46
2025, how's the year looking? Yeah, we
00:56:49
look forward to it. Like, this is a real
00:56:51
downtime now for for us. You know, you
00:56:54
got to make the most of your sort of
00:56:56
December, January, a little bit of Feb
00:56:58
before Super starts. But we're getting
00:57:01
together in the next couple days. The
00:57:02
boys are all coming in full squad, full
00:57:04
management team and just a bit of a
00:57:06
reconnect before they head off to their
00:57:07
super rugby clubs and um we we'll
00:57:11
outline a couple of expectations for
00:57:12
them that we want to see in key areas
00:57:15
and what that is during super and
00:57:18
reiterate, you know, all blacks 24/7 and
00:57:21
and just touch on a few things there.
00:57:23
But most of them probably haven't even
00:57:25
seen a game of rugby since November, you
00:57:26
know, and good on them because it's
00:57:28
their summer, too. But Oh, yeah. All All
00:57:30
Blacks 24/7. What do you what does that
00:57:32
mean? Well, just be, you know, realize
00:57:35
that you're once you're all blacks,
00:57:36
you're you're all black and and your
00:57:39
expectations of how you are and how you
00:57:42
act and your behaviors have to be dialed
00:57:44
in.
00:57:47
It's a lot of pressure now. I like you
00:57:50
just can't get away with anything
00:57:51
anymore. No, you can't. No, you can't.
00:57:54
And it's just the way the world is. It's
00:57:56
a it's an
00:57:57
interesting way it all works now, isn't
00:58:00
it? phones and it's just constant
00:58:03
and you sort of even when you text
00:58:05
someone if they haven't sort of text
00:58:07
back within a few seconds like mate why
00:58:09
don't you get back to me isn't it it's
00:58:12
like it's a bit like that just tell me
00:58:13
now so but you got to you got to you got
00:58:16
to be sharp um
00:58:18
um and I I got to be at the
00:58:21
best the best I can be to coach this
00:58:24
team so I've done a lot of work on
00:58:26
myself in the last we while stop
00:58:28
drinking and Yeah. Yeah. I stopped
00:58:30
drinking coming up a year. Wife and I
00:58:33
had both done it actually. We just had a
00:58:34
bit of a reset. It's been really nice
00:58:37
just to keep fresh and Yeah. put
00:58:39
yourself in a good position. Yeah. Was
00:58:41
it was there a reason for that or you
00:58:43
just decided you um I
00:58:47
probably probably just needed to be at
00:58:49
my best and I I don't believe it was
00:58:52
helping me really. Um be at my best. So
00:58:57
yeah,
00:58:59
how have you found it at the social
00:59:01
events? Like you went to the Luke
00:59:02
Combmes concert at Eden Park the other
00:59:03
night. Yeah. Is it um I don't know. Is
00:59:06
it Is it Is it boring or is it a bit
00:59:07
different without a you know a tray of
00:59:09
four beers? No. Well, you get four
00:59:12
zeros. Yeah, true. The zeros are
00:59:15
actually pretty good these days. They
00:59:16
are. Yeah. Look, it's um Oh, look, I got
00:59:19
You're not going to be that guy that you
00:59:21
say, "Well, I'm not drinking now." Well,
00:59:23
you shouldn't be. That's It was my
00:59:24
decision. and Keith and I chipped away
00:59:27
at a few things together and it's been
00:59:28
awesome. Really, it's been good. You
00:59:30
probably don't get invited to as many
00:59:32
things as used to, but it's um I think
00:59:36
it's kept me sharp, you know. I think
00:59:38
it's kept me sharp. I want to do
00:59:39
everything I can to be in the best shape
00:59:41
mentally and physically um you know to
00:59:45
to do the best I can for the All Blacks.
00:59:47
And probably it was just a habit really
00:59:49
and it was like h actually might just
00:59:51
have a we breather on this. So it's been
00:59:54
good. Well, you you do seem to have like
00:59:56
a real um growth mindset from what I can
00:59:58
see on Instagram. Like um you love your
01:00:00
type two fun. You know that you know
01:00:02
about type one fun, type two fun. No,
01:00:04
tell me. It was a theory I was
01:00:05
introduced to by another guest on the
01:00:07
podcast. Type one fun is um yeah, maybe
01:00:09
going out having a few beers or
01:00:11
whatever, you know? So, it's like cheap
01:00:12
dopamine. Type two fun is like mountain
01:00:14
biking, going for a run up a mountain,
01:00:16
you know, your um wake boarding on the
01:00:18
boat, that sort of stuff, like physical
01:00:19
activity. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You seem
01:00:22
right into that. Yeah. No, it is good.
01:00:23
You got to have that balance, don't you?
01:00:25
I I I love the water. I love the water.
01:00:28
Um, as I said before, just got a bit of
01:00:31
a plan with Nick Gil around doing T and
01:00:34
myself and Ty Ellison, one of the other
01:00:35
coaches. We're going to do the Cross
01:00:37
Church half marathon, which would be
01:00:38
cool. So, not trying to do it on any
01:00:41
under under any time. Just get out there
01:00:44
and do a bit of running. And it's been
01:00:46
good. Yeah. This morning before doing
01:00:47
this podcast, you went out for a 7k run.
01:00:49
Yeah. Yeah. Chipped away down the
01:00:51
waterfront. How good's Oakland? What a
01:00:52
good idea. It's um the running thing.
01:00:54
It's so good. E like I I find Yeah,
01:00:56
there's the obvious physical benefits,
01:00:58
but just for the mental health aspect as
01:00:59
well. E so good for clearing the head.
01:01:01
Yeah, it does clear the head. I think
01:01:03
exercise does generally, doesn't it?
01:01:05
Movement's key, you know, like when
01:01:09
we're in campaign, there's a lot of
01:01:11
moving parts and it's like adrenaline,
01:01:13
you know. It's takes a while to actually
01:01:15
transition back into your own house when
01:01:17
you've been away because you've had so
01:01:18
much movement. Yeah. So Kath um yeah
01:01:22
let's talk about her. So coming up to 25
01:01:24
years married congratulations. That's
01:01:26
awesome. When what how did you guys
01:01:28
meet? What's the story there? We met um
01:01:30
through families really. I used to work
01:01:33
as a um wash up boy in her uncle's
01:01:37
butcher shop for the butchers
01:01:39
apprentichip. So yeah. And then I
01:01:41
actually did the bar at her
01:01:42
21st.
01:01:44
Yeah. And uh yeah, we got to know each
01:01:47
other from that
01:01:48
night. Was it some love at first sight?
01:01:51
Of course it was. Of course it was.
01:01:55
I saw some early photos of you guys on
01:01:57
Instagram and um you had a good head of
01:01:59
hair. I did. I had a full lid. It was
01:02:01
actually amazing. It was unbelievable.
01:02:04
Yeah. What happened there?
01:02:06
[Laughter]
01:02:08
Oh, I don't know. Too much wakeboarding
01:02:10
just flew off. But no, no, she's gone
01:02:11
now. No, I was I was actually um I was
01:02:14
actually um Yeah, I was pretty proud of
01:02:17
her here, dude. M was was right on.
01:02:19
Yeah. So, yeah. So, you you and Keith,
01:02:22
was there like is there a cute love
01:02:23
story or um we just got to know each
01:02:26
other. She was interested in rugby and
01:02:28
you know, yeah, we you know, we had a
01:02:31
few few bumps along the way as anyone
01:02:33
does and sorted a few things out and you
01:02:36
know, like any relationship, you got to
01:02:37
work at it and it takes two people to do
01:02:39
it. So, yeah, we're coming up um 25
01:02:42
years, so it'll be cool. I'm going to
01:02:44
take it out of the New Zealand Golf
01:02:45
Open. [ __ ] Does she want to go to the
01:02:47
new? She should be
01:02:50
pumped. Joking or not? Um, oh, you want
01:02:54
the bumps along the way? What do you
01:02:55
mean? Just like standard relationship.
01:02:57
Yeah. Oh, you're just trying to work
01:02:58
things out, aren't you? You know, and
01:03:00
then you have kids and that's a
01:03:02
different dynamic. And
01:03:04
um, yeah, things things are hard. Things
01:03:06
things there's always going to be hard
01:03:08
patches, eh? Well, you don't you know,
01:03:10
when you when you have kids, you don't
01:03:12
they don't really come with a manual.
01:03:14
It's, you know, you can do as much prep
01:03:16
and antiatal classes as if you as you
01:03:20
want before to prepare prepare, don't
01:03:23
you? But 3:00 in the morning, you ain't
01:03:25
turned to page 22 or some book. Give you
01:03:27
the tip. Yeah.
01:03:30
Yeah. There's a a quote I read um
01:03:32
online. Uh Kath, this is from you. Kath
01:03:35
has been just awesome. She has seen it
01:03:37
all. She has challenged it all. And
01:03:39
she's been at the table with me since we
01:03:40
rolled the dice. That's it's a lovely
01:03:43
sentence. Yeah. Yeah, she has too. Yeah.
01:03:45
And she's still there, you know, she's
01:03:47
good. She's um Yeah, she's champion.
01:03:50
She's got a good but nice big warm heart
01:03:52
and um been so instrumental in bringing
01:03:56
our kids up to the, you know, great
01:03:58
people they are adults now. And yeah,
01:04:02
she she must be proud of, you know, how
01:04:04
well you're doing with the coaching.
01:04:06
Yeah, she is. You know, she is she's
01:04:08
she's really well balanced and
01:04:10
um she's probably got the patience out
01:04:12
of the two of us.
01:04:15
So, it's um Yeah, it's a good it's good
01:04:18
balance. Yeah. I was I was going to ask
01:04:20
you what would she say if she was
01:04:22
sitting here? What would she say like
01:04:23
your worst habits are? Impatience.
01:04:25
Yeah. Um yeah, be definitely probably
01:04:28
patience. Listening could be in there.
01:04:32
Well, I can hear her, but can you out of
01:04:35
that ear? Can you hear? Yeah. You know,
01:04:37
listening um Yeah. No, no, she's um
01:04:41
Yeah, she's champion lover. Have you got
01:04:43
quite a good communication style at
01:04:44
home? Yeah, we have. Yeah, we're good.
01:04:46
We got good family WhatsApp.
01:04:49
It's
01:04:50
um um at times R18, at times care.
01:04:56
The kids are at such a great age, you
01:04:58
know, 22 and 19. Oh, it's Yeah. The old
01:05:03
um Do you watch Yellowstone? Yeah. Yeah.
01:05:05
Sometimes Sometimes the dinner table's
01:05:07
not quite like that, but it's um there's
01:05:10
a few combos. Everyone finishes eating
01:05:11
every time. That's good. But we have a
01:05:14
lot of fun as a family, you know. Yeah.
01:05:15
How often do you get together as a
01:05:16
family now? The four of you? Not Not as
01:05:18
much as we'd like to, but um the kids
01:05:20
are still at home. Um milking it.
01:05:24
Definitely.
01:05:26
Why would you leave? Yeah. Yeah. Why
01:05:27
would you leave? Do you charge them
01:05:28
bored? Um they No. No. There you go. I
01:05:34
know. But they've got a they've we've
01:05:35
got a rule that um their savings account
01:05:38
needs to have certain targets. for each
01:05:40
year. Um, which they do and they're
01:05:43
really good. Oh, that's good. Because
01:05:45
otherwise it's no point, you know,
01:05:47
otherwise it is a bit of a soft
01:05:49
approach. So, as long as they're saving
01:05:51
their money and and and getting up and
01:05:54
doing their jobs and consistent in that,
01:05:56
well, we got no problem with that. So,
01:05:59
it's a duty as a parent, you know. Yeah.
01:06:01
Yeah. Also, it must with you being away
01:06:03
uh so often, it must be nice for Kath to
01:06:05
have them around the house. Yeah, it is.
01:06:07
Yeah. Yeah. Dead right. It is. Yeah. And
01:06:11
um you know she can come overseas when
01:06:13
she needs to and it's pretty cool. Her
01:06:15
and M came over to Japan this year which
01:06:17
was good. And Keith was going to come on
01:06:19
further but didn't cuz Ollie broke his
01:06:21
ankle playing footy so he had to have
01:06:23
surgery. So she shot home but she'll
01:06:24
come around this year to a few games.
01:06:26
And it's always good having them there.
01:06:28
Yeah cuz All Blacks we're never really
01:06:30
at home. as weird as it sounds when we
01:06:32
haven't actually got a home. Whether or
01:06:34
not we're in Oakland or Wellington or
01:06:36
Deneden, we we haven't sort of got a
01:06:39
home base where we call home as such.
01:06:44
When you look at, you know, England,
01:06:45
Ireland,
01:06:47
Wales, well, they've got one home
01:06:49
ground. That's the one they play at is
01:06:51
their national stadium. So it's a little
01:06:54
bit like we're having meetings in
01:06:56
airports and cuz we're we're moving
01:06:59
somewhere every every Sunday we're
01:07:01
moving to another place. Yeah. I see. So
01:07:03
it's so it's different. So you you're at
01:07:05
the Hyatt or the Crown Pra Plaza or
01:07:08
wherever it happens to be. Wherever it
01:07:09
happens to be. We're not in the same
01:07:11
spot. Yeah. Yeah. So it's different. And
01:07:13
and Keith's how's she cope with that
01:07:16
adjustment with you being like absent so
01:07:18
often now? H not too bad. She probably
01:07:20
likes it.
01:07:22
Well, it's actually a good it's actually
01:07:23
a good it's a good balance I think we've
01:07:25
got when we're not always together and
01:07:28
not always apart. It's it's quite good.
01:07:30
She's away at the moment at one of her
01:07:31
mates 50th in Ken. So, she's been away
01:07:34
for a few days so reconnecting with
01:07:36
them. But no, no, she's she's strong.
01:07:41
Are you are you good at being um you
01:07:44
open and vulnerable with her? You know,
01:07:45
having Yeah. So, there's something on
01:07:47
your mind. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. the Ivan
01:07:49
Clearary book we're talking about like
01:07:50
he talked about his mental health in
01:07:51
there which is um sort of seems to flare
01:07:54
up for Ivan when it's you largely um you
01:07:56
know performance based so when the
01:07:58
team's performing badly like his mental
01:08:00
health slips um but he talked about you
01:08:02
know being able to like openly cry and
01:08:04
weep in front of his wife which I
01:08:05
thought was a brave thing to share in
01:08:06
the book. Yeah. Yeah. No, he's um I
01:08:08
really enjoyed it. You know I think we
01:08:10
all have our moments like that and you
01:08:12
know you if if that's how you're feeling
01:08:15
at that time well that's that's fine.
01:08:17
And it's better than keeping it in,
01:08:18
isn't it? And and talking and and
01:08:20
sharing stuff. I think one of the
01:08:22
greatest one of the one of the
01:08:24
highlights for me last year was Anton
01:08:27
Leonard Brown's little podcast he did
01:08:30
and he spoke about a bit of stuff and I
01:08:32
remember going I love Albby. is a good
01:08:34
man, you know, and we professional
01:08:37
personal is probably at its best between
01:08:40
him and I. We we get on good, but we,
01:08:42
you know, we still talk about the game
01:08:44
obviously as we have to, but I thought
01:08:45
it was so special when he talked about
01:08:47
himself. And I remember we were in Japan
01:08:49
and I went up to I said, "Mate, I'm so
01:08:50
proud of you, mate. That that is
01:08:52
strong." And I'd actually just done Ivan
01:08:55
Clearary's um podcast. I just finished
01:08:57
it and it was like, "Wow, good on you,
01:08:58
mate. Awesome." I missed that one with
01:09:00
me. What was that? It was really good.
01:09:02
He did a um podcast. I think it was with
01:09:06
um Oh, I got to think off my top of my
01:09:08
head. Maybe James Marshall. No. Water.
01:09:10
No. No.
01:09:11
No. Um.
01:09:17
No. It's gone. I'll have to look it up.
01:09:18
It's gone out of my head. But did he did
01:09:20
you discuss his mental health? Yeah, he
01:09:21
was good. Yeah. No, it was a good one.
01:09:23
Yeah. Just there. He goes through the
01:09:25
highs and lows and bits and pieces he
01:09:26
just shared. It was It was good. Really
01:09:29
good. Yeah. Yeah, cuz everyone goes
01:09:31
through that stuff, but a lot of people
01:09:32
find it difficult to, I suppose,
01:09:34
communicate it or verbalize it or share
01:09:36
that stuff. Yeah. How's how's your
01:09:37
mental health been over the years? Yeah,
01:09:39
it's had its moments. I think when um
01:09:41
when I was coaching Fiji, I got CO
01:09:45
really bad in France and that really
01:09:47
knock knocked me around. I went to
01:09:49
hospital. Yeah. Myself and Richie Gray,
01:09:51
we were coaching the Fiji team in the
01:09:53
Autumn Nations Cup and yeah, I was in a
01:09:55
real bad way. Yeah, I was I was no good.
01:09:58
took me a long time to to come out of
01:10:00
that and you know I was by myself for a
01:10:03
long time effectively you know just
01:10:04
under two
01:10:05
months and that was awful that that was
01:10:08
a real tough time real tough um and I
01:10:11
had Kerry Evans helped me out with a bit
01:10:13
of stuff with that just getting on the
01:10:15
beaten track and I thought it was all
01:10:17
all over really was just about ready to
01:10:19
come over Oh you thought you might die
01:10:22
yeah know I was in hospital way I was in
01:10:24
hospital hard yeah we got we got taken
01:10:27
to hospital Yeah. Yep. It was the Delta
01:10:29
variant when it just came about.
01:10:32
Unreal. So, um, Dr. Kerry Evans, what
01:10:35
sort of what sort of advice or tips can
01:10:37
he give you? Yeah. Well, he's a
01:10:39
psychiatrist, so um he obviously knows
01:10:41
the brain pretty good, doesn't he? And
01:10:44
he's with us now. So, um yeah, he's um
01:10:47
he's gave me a couple of couple of weeks
01:10:49
to work on. Just acknowledged what I
01:10:51
needed to focus on to get things right
01:10:53
and just chipped away in them. Yeah.
01:10:55
Have you found um quitting alcohol has
01:10:58
had an impact on your mental health at
01:10:59
all? Everyone talks about how much how
01:11:01
much better you sleep when you stop
01:11:02
drinking. Oh yeah. Your sleep's better.
01:11:04
Yeah. Yeah. Look, I wasn't a massive
01:11:06
drinker. Probably a few years ago, you
01:11:08
know, if there's a curfew at 3:00 a.m.
01:11:10
My alarm was going for
01:11:13
2:59. But um yeah, you definitely feel
01:11:17
sharper in the mornings. That's good. I
01:11:18
haven't missed it at all. That's the
01:11:21
weird thing. Yeah. But I'm not
01:11:24
like straight away saying to people,
01:11:26
well, you've got to do this and got to
01:11:28
do that and you shouldn't be doing it.
01:11:29
No, no, they'll make their decision, so
01:11:31
it doesn't worry me. I feel like there's
01:11:32
never been a better better time for
01:11:34
that. Like 25 years ago when you were
01:11:35
playing for Buller in West Coast,
01:11:36
there's probably court sessions and
01:11:38
there's probably like a certain amount
01:11:39
of peer pressure to drink. I feel like
01:11:41
that doesn't exist anymore. E like if if
01:11:42
someone says they're not drinking, no
01:11:44
one's going to call them a [ __ ] or
01:11:46
anything.
01:11:47
It's respect them. It's made a shift. M
01:11:50
I think it has made a shift and like%
01:11:53
Yeah, we we um we had a night at the um
01:11:56
the Guinness factory in Dublin and the
01:11:59
Guinness Zero is one of their fastest
01:12:01
growing drinks in the world over there
01:12:03
at the moment and it's you wouldn't know
01:12:05
the difference. The zero alcohol's come
01:12:08
a long way and
01:12:11
whatever. What would a 20-year-old Jace
01:12:13
Ryan make of this guy? I don't know. The
01:12:16
Guinness factory and having a zero. I
01:12:18
know. Guinness zero. I know. Well, I
01:12:21
don't know. I think he'd be proud, I
01:12:24
think, wouldn't he? I'd hope so. Yeah.
01:12:25
You want to keep changing and keep
01:12:26
evolving. You got to keep evolving.
01:12:28
Yeah. And we're not getting any younger.
01:12:29
So, yeah. How old are you now? I am 49,
01:12:33
50 this year. Yeah. Your body's your
01:12:36
biggest asset. That's what we talk to
01:12:38
the boys about. Their body is their
01:12:40
business account. Effectively, it's
01:12:43
their body is their business. And the
01:12:45
more they treat their business with
01:12:47
respect through owning their body and
01:12:49
their recovery and their is a big part
01:12:52
of it. Oh well, you would have found
01:12:53
this from your your co journey, but
01:12:55
there's there's there's a quote I really
01:12:56
like. It's like a a man who is healthy
01:12:58
can have unlimited wishes. A man who is
01:13:00
unhealthy only has one wish. That's to
01:13:02
get [ __ ] better again. Yeah, totally
01:13:05
right. Um, do you have regrets? What are
01:13:08
your regrets?
01:13:09
[Music]
01:13:11
Um,
01:13:15
regrets? None that I can think of. Not
01:13:18
giving up that mining job. No, that
01:13:20
wasn't a regret. No, it wasn't a regret.
01:13:23
I think
01:13:25
um No, I haven't heard of that. Uh,
01:13:28
regret. What do I regret?
01:13:32
The fact that you have to think so hard.
01:13:33
I think that's a good thing. Yeah. Yeah.
01:13:35
Nothing significant. Nothing that stands
01:13:37
out. No, nothing significant. And I
01:13:38
don't think that I
01:13:41
What about adversity? Biggest adversity
01:13:42
you've gone through. No one gets to our
01:13:44
stage of life like 50 without going
01:13:46
through, you know, some sort of hurdles
01:13:48
or obstacles. What would it be for you?
01:13:49
What's the biggest one? Oh, probably
01:13:51
that when when I had to make that
01:13:53
decision, you know, that was that was a
01:13:54
pretty big old strain. Big strain. Yeah.
01:13:58
At a time of life where, you know, your
01:14:00
family trying to get going. Yeah. You
01:14:02
know, it's like I just chucked this all
01:14:04
in reverse, but it's worked itself out,
01:14:07
you know. So,
01:14:10
um, yeah.
01:14:12
What about goals or aspirations for the
01:14:14
future?
01:14:16
I just want to be the best I can, um,
01:14:18
the best version of myself and be, um,
01:14:22
you know, care about people and my
01:14:24
players that I'm working with. There's
01:14:27
nothing better than seeing a player come
01:14:29
in and then get to a certain level and
01:14:32
just keep going and know that you've
01:14:34
just had a little part in in that to
01:14:38
play, you know, like and then and then
01:14:40
they say, "Thanks for that. I really
01:14:41
appreciated that." That's the moment
01:14:43
that's bigger than any trophies for me.
01:14:45
Just seeing them grow and get better at
01:14:48
their at their craft, whether or not
01:14:50
that's on the field or off the field,
01:14:51
you know.
01:14:53
Yeah, that's cool. Actually, this is
01:14:55
something you've said a few times on
01:14:56
this podcast just about wanting to be
01:14:58
Yeah. a little bit better every day.
01:15:00
Yeah. Um when when when did you start
01:15:02
thinking that way? Is that like a
01:15:04
midlife thing or is that is that just
01:15:06
always been I think the environment of
01:15:08
professional coaching um helps that
01:15:12
because you have to be you know like
01:15:16
um it's interesting like team New
01:15:20
Zealand they they said they put more
01:15:21
time into
01:15:23
themselves than their opposition and I
01:15:25
was like wow that's really good more
01:15:27
time sometime you know you got to put a
01:15:29
lot into yourself don't you of who you
01:15:32
are and and the other people will
01:15:34
actually get the benefits of it anyway.
01:15:36
Yeah. Yeah. Do you do you feel like as a
01:15:38
person you've changed a lot since um
01:15:40
since you got the all black job in 2022
01:15:42
in terms of I suppose if you're in that
01:15:44
environment and you're around these um
01:15:46
you know extreme high performers like
01:15:48
naturally you want to you you want to do
01:15:50
better yourself. Yeah. I don't think
01:15:52
I've changed
01:15:54
um anything I I do in my who I'm talking
01:15:59
to. If it's family or friends or that
01:16:01
sort of thing. I still connect with
01:16:03
people I love and who I need to. But
01:16:05
I've probably had to change a few of my
01:16:07
habits of what I, you know, cuz where I
01:16:10
want to get to and experience the World
01:16:11
Cup and that's the ultimate when you're
01:16:16
a professional coach. That's the
01:16:17
ultimate is to win a world championship,
01:16:20
isn't it? Yeah. So, I've experienced
01:16:22
that and um I want more of that. So, you
01:16:25
got to make sure you're doing some work
01:16:27
on yourself to make yourself better.
01:16:30
Are you where you want to be? Um, no,
01:16:33
not yet. No, I don't think I'm satisfied
01:16:35
with where I want want to get to. And I
01:16:37
know that that I've got more to give, a
01:16:39
lot more to give. You know, like
01:16:41
there's the the beauty of coaching, I
01:16:43
guess, is if you stay fit and healthy,
01:16:45
you can do it for quite some time. You
01:16:47
I'd love to coach All Blacks for as as
01:16:48
long as I can. Not forever because
01:16:52
there'll be someone else better. I've
01:16:53
got no doubt about that. But while I'm
01:16:55
here, I got to make sure that I'm the
01:16:56
best. And it's justified in putting that
01:17:00
work into myself to make sure that
01:17:01
that's happening is important. Um, but
01:17:04
never satisfied. I don't think champions
01:17:06
are ever satisfied. And you got to keep
01:17:09
staying ahead and
01:17:11
um not looking behind you. I guess you
01:17:14
look behind you, you only get a sore
01:17:15
neck, don't you? Yeah, that's true.
01:17:18
Haven't really got one. But anyway,
01:17:19
that's true. Um, oh, one final one to
01:17:23
finish with. So, I had um Doo Allen on
01:17:25
the podcast, famous coaster to coaster,
01:17:27
part of team New Zealand. Um he's done
01:17:30
some adventure races with Richie Mccor,
01:17:33
and he said um in one of the advent
01:17:35
overnight adventure races they did um
01:17:37
they were playing games to keep
01:17:39
themselves motivated and keep themselves
01:17:40
awake and one game that Richie came up
01:17:42
with was um everyone in the team had to
01:17:45
come up with three words that they'd
01:17:46
like you people to say at their funeral.
01:17:48
And um Dooall was saying one of Richie's
01:17:51
words was integrity. And Doo was
01:17:52
thinking to himself, that's funny.
01:17:53
That's exactly the word I would have
01:17:54
used for him. What about you? Three
01:17:57
words um that you'd like people to say
01:17:59
at your funeral or three words if the if
01:18:01
the All Black Forwards were in here now
01:18:02
that you'd like them to sort of say
01:18:04
about you.
01:18:08
Um cared, honest, loyal.
01:18:13
Yeah, they're great words.
01:18:17
You reckon you're there?
01:18:20
I'm still working on it definitely. You
01:18:23
know,
01:18:24
I'm know who I am. I'm not trying to be
01:18:27
anyone else, but I know that I care
01:18:29
about the players and I care about who I
01:18:31
work with and I'm honest. Um, and that's
01:18:34
a big part of it, you know, and, you
01:18:36
know, you got to be prepared as well.
01:18:38
You got to have all your preparation
01:18:40
done and all that sort of thing, but I
01:18:42
think that's that's the three key ones
01:18:44
for me. I love it. And are you proud of
01:18:46
yourself? Yeah, I am. Yeah. Yeah, I am.
01:18:49
Good question, Tom. I like that. I am
01:18:51
proud. Yep.
01:18:54
It's a funny because I ask that to a lot
01:18:55
of my guests and it's um like being a a
01:18:58
Kiwi male, especially of a certain age
01:18:59
like ours. A lot of people squirm at at
01:19:02
answering it. It seems I don't know like
01:19:04
boastful or it seems like we should we
01:19:07
should not allow ourselves to be proud
01:19:09
of ourselves. But I think it's um it's a
01:19:10
great position to be in. It is. And
01:19:12
another thing I'm I'm a similar age to
01:19:13
you. It's it's quite exciting still, you
01:19:16
know, being 50 and realize that you can
01:19:18
still get better and you can still do
01:19:20
things differently. When I was 20, I
01:19:21
would have thought at the age of 50
01:19:23
that's it. No more learning, no more
01:19:25
growth. Like it's done, but you get here
01:19:27
and it's um it's invigorating. E it's
01:19:30
exciting. It is. We had um just going
01:19:33
back to the Irish story. We had Joseph
01:19:35
Parker in and he came to our club rooms
01:19:37
and he sat sat by be behind me on the
01:19:39
bus and he was talking to Tomy Ellison.
01:19:42
He was talking about his training regime
01:19:44
now and where he's at and his nutrition
01:19:46
and all that. And he said to him, "I
01:19:48
feel brand new." And that really hit me.
01:19:51
I was like,
01:19:52
"Wow, I reckon I feel brand new, too."
01:19:56
Powerful, eh? So powerful. I feel brand
01:19:58
new.
01:20:01
Well, you seem you seem like you're in a
01:20:02
great space. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you got
01:20:05
me at a good time because it's January.
01:20:07
Just fresh off the lake. Yeah, fresh off
01:20:09
the lake, you know, like, but you know,
01:20:11
I you got to you got to be, you know,
01:20:14
like that all the time effectively, you
01:20:16
know, but when you're high performance
01:20:17
and you're going after wins and
01:20:20
Yeah. Well, this has been fun. Yeah,
01:20:22
I've enjoyed it. I appreciate you asking
01:20:24
me. I really do. Yeah. Well, thank you
01:20:26
so much for agreeing to come on and I'm
01:20:27
really looking forward to see what the
01:20:28
future brings for you, Jason Ryan.
01:20:30
Thanks, Tom. Appreciate it.
