00:00:06
giving me lamby welcome to my podcast
00:00:08
thanks for having me Dom opportun thank
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you for the opportunity thank you for
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making some time on Friday are you
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kidding me no thank you so much um I'm I
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bumped into you at a clothing store
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called as you were and I was like um it
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was probably quite rude to me the first
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thing I said was hey come on my podcast
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and then we swapped numbers and um yeah
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I I'm I'm humbled that you're here thank
00:00:29
you I mean I suppose that's how the best
00:00:31
moments happen when just off the cuff
00:00:33
and uh and this is where we we end up so
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thanks for having me D yeah I know I I I
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appreciate it um I um I I founded around
00:00:42
different people have had on the podcast
00:00:43
that are former teammates of yours and
00:00:44
people that know you to try and get some
00:00:47
um you know dirt or some Icebreaker
00:00:49
stories every single person uh to the
00:00:52
last man had nothing but nice words to
00:00:54
say about you um like this is from Zack
00:00:56
Guilford yes who you played with for a
00:00:58
short time yes uh K is the nicest guy in
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the world I aspire to be a kind soul
00:01:03
like him not an egotistical bone in his
00:01:05
body literally the nicest guy I've ever
00:01:07
played with no real Yar sorry just a top
00:01:09
man oh and everyone says the same thing
00:01:12
about you I um I spend a bit of money um
00:01:15
just making sure everyone was prepared
00:01:17
for the call coming from you Dom so um
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oh no it's a man what it's uh I feel
00:01:23
really proud being able to hear that
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from my um my peers my mates so that's a
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cool that's cool how how how do you you
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um balance being um just a super nice
00:01:32
guy without being taken advantage of um
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I get ask that often you know I was
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talking to someone the other day we were
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doing like a discovery piece just
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there's uh some work we were doing uh
00:01:43
just about to go on LinkedIn and they uh
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were asking about this is you as a
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person and what do you see as like a a
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fault or um see something that people
00:01:54
wouldn't like about you and I think
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that's it is like people think it I'm
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too nice um but I always think to myself
00:02:00
Dom that's that's my choice it's my
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choice to be that way and I think if you
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ever if you ever saw me play a sport um
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it's just as easy as crossing the line
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that's how that's how it is you know um
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yeah so I think people people in their
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minds think uh probably too nice but
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that's a choice I choose to I choose to
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think that way and uh treat people that
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way um but you know it's it's just like
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anything in life when you cross the line
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you cross the line oh yeah cuz you you
00:02:30
were a bad man on the field like you
00:02:32
were a yeah like you hurt
00:02:35
people you were you were intimidating
00:02:38
you are a you are you a ferocious
00:02:40
monster on the field I like that you
00:02:43
said that though cuz you know when most
00:02:44
people see me on the road they're like
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geez you're smaller than what that you
00:02:47
look like on TV I'm like damn it no but
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I I just wonder if it's um if it's had
00:02:53
when you so like do you are are you here
00:02:55
today because you want to be here or you
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find it hard to say no to things because
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you are such a nice guy
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uh I'm all about opportunities in life
00:03:02
and um this was a cool opportunity D
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like I've uh been lucky enough to watch
00:03:06
a few of your podcasts and they of that
00:03:08
quality and um yeah so I think being
00:03:10
here today is a privilege and um and I
00:03:13
was I was working in town today as well
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so just all worked out worked out good
00:03:17
okay um so you're um you're a Catholic
00:03:19
he happy in your entire life um so I was
00:03:22
um sort of Born and Raised I'm Catholic
00:03:24
as well but I'm I'm not sort of
00:03:25
practicing anymore but do you like do
00:03:27
you get a confession um you got fishing
00:03:30
and stuff I'm a i a Catholic and um
00:03:32
sometimes the the look I get from um our
00:03:35
church members um are like are you do
00:03:37
you just come for the special dates for
00:03:39
Christmas for
00:03:41
Easter um I had this I had a really cool
00:03:43
experience months uh one of the first
00:03:46
time I went to Rome and playing um uh in
00:03:49
Italy for the first time our first test
00:03:51
match there and um on the way home from
00:03:54
uh team dinner popped into one of the
00:03:56
churches there and um really cool
00:03:58
experience you know um
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I think when you're growing up it's one
00:04:02
of those things that you can you never
00:04:04
have it as a things you can take off but
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actually um being a Christian and a
00:04:09
Catholic it's pretty cool and so popping
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in there um went in and uh they had
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confession on so you know I popped
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through and um I suppose you don't talk
00:04:19
about everything you talk about in
00:04:20
confession but I did say that I was um
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gut that I couldn't be a church more and
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one of the things that the uh the father
00:04:27
said to me is you know it's in here it's
00:04:30
your relationship that you have with God
00:04:32
so sort of opened up my eyes a little
00:04:34
bit we can't always can't always be a
00:04:36
church but it's with that heart and um
00:04:39
where your mind is being grateful and
00:04:41
that is really important to me and how I
00:04:43
have that relationship as well it's such
00:04:45
a cool story and was there were you
00:04:47
there were some teammates was there like
00:04:49
a cluster of um All Blacks at the time
00:04:51
that were Church goinging oh there was
00:04:53
me that um stopped through and um I
00:04:55
think Jerry stopped in for a little bit
00:04:56
as well Jerry Collins the late Jerry
00:04:58
Collins rest in peace yes so um I think
00:05:01
on all the teams I've played in that
00:05:03
that's it's probably been a thread
00:05:04
that's been there the whole time even
00:05:06
when I first started playing so Michael
00:05:07
Jones was a big part of uh my career uh
00:05:10
especially the start and iron Clark so
00:05:13
had some really good guidance from the
00:05:15
beginning and they were just guys that
00:05:16
are you know just I think it's really
00:05:19
important as we go through our careers
00:05:21
you just being happy staying with who
00:05:24
you are be true to who you are right yes
00:05:27
so when what sort of things do you what
00:05:29
do you have to confess is it like losing
00:05:32
your temper
00:05:33
or what what is it I like I just can't
00:05:36
imagine you having much to say in that
00:05:38
Booth uh d by no way am I perfect and uh
00:05:41
like every like every person every
00:05:44
Christian we uh we have our faults so um
00:05:47
yeah that's that's me just um trying to
00:05:50
make good with who I am and um yeah just
00:05:53
always on the always trying to look to
00:05:55
be better um but there are days that you
00:05:58
know it doesn't look like that you know
00:05:59
You Know M yeah yeah well how can how
00:06:02
can I or anyone that's watching or
00:06:04
listening to this be more like Kevin
00:06:07
Mamu I just it's a good question I
00:06:10
actually think just um be happy with who
00:06:12
you are you know um I always think of we
00:06:16
always thought about this as an all
00:06:17
black which is um it used to be a time
00:06:20
when we played um for the or blacks and
00:06:21
it
00:06:23
was it was a burden uh that pressure
00:06:26
never winning a World Cup in such a long
00:06:28
time and then having the opportunity to
00:06:31
sit down look at some things and um have
00:06:33
a chat about this is a privileged
00:06:35
position we we're getting a chance to
00:06:37
represent our country our family our
00:06:39
friends um and not many people get to do
00:06:42
this so I think just looking at from
00:06:45
that lens this is it's a cool
00:06:47
opportunity we get we get the choice we
00:06:49
we get to make a choice on how we get to
00:06:51
see things and um that's probably who I
00:06:54
think people can look to it's your
00:06:56
choice you get to choose who you are and
00:06:58
if you're happy with who you are be that
00:07:00
person
00:07:02
um as a rugby player as an a former old
00:07:04
black you get criticism you know um but
00:07:08
how you take that you know so it's
00:07:09
always that lens I I think I have a lens
00:07:11
on life people think it's probably a bit
00:07:13
too positive but that's my choice that's
00:07:15
where I choose to live got got no time
00:07:17
to live in the got no time to live in
00:07:19
the past or things that are holding me
00:07:22
down no I love that so much and it's
00:07:24
like it's it's working for you and it's
00:07:26
working for everyone around you as I
00:07:27
said no one's no one has a bad word to
00:07:29
say about
00:07:30
I you know you're doing something right
00:07:31
if the only criticism people can come up
00:07:33
with is that you're too nice or you're
00:07:34
too positive right that's a really good
00:07:37
thing thank you thank you yeah so um so
00:07:39
your your last game was um the Rugby
00:07:42
World Cup Final in 2015 um same time as
00:07:45
Richie mcco played this last game as
00:07:46
well actually a bunch of guys played the
00:07:47
last game so um what does life look like
00:07:49
now how's how has life looked since then
00:07:53
um life's been good it's been
00:07:54
challenging as well I always say um
00:07:58
especially if you've been doing
00:07:59
something like people talk about talk
00:08:01
about it as um when rugby players finish
00:08:04
life's quite hard cuz you're trying to
00:08:05
find your way but I probably challenge
00:08:07
him and say it's hard for anyone that's
00:08:09
done something and put a lot of time and
00:08:10
energy into something for a long time so
00:08:13
the challenges I think it's it's
00:08:16
definitely that Discovery piece what do
00:08:18
you look like away from your sport or
00:08:21
from rugby and that's probably what I've
00:08:24
been working on that's what life looks
00:08:25
like for me probably the first part of
00:08:27
it was discovering who I am
00:08:30
where do I how do I fit back into Family
00:08:31
Life how do I fit back into Community
00:08:33
cuz that changes you know you've been a
00:08:35
part of a team for such a long time and
00:08:38
the guys that you've played alongside
00:08:39
that's who you see daily and that
00:08:42
changed um even little things like the
00:08:45
things we take for granted how you how
00:08:48
you take a take a plate back when you
00:08:49
when you live in hotels a lot just put
00:08:52
them at the door you know so you know
00:08:54
you can't do that at home walking away
00:08:56
from the walking away from the D table
00:08:58
living your plate there often got a
00:09:00
thrown at the back of my
00:09:01
head so I think it's these little
00:09:03
Discovery Pieces Just understanding what
00:09:05
that looks like and so for me been in
00:09:07
the fitness industry for the last 10
00:09:09
years um and when we talk talk about
00:09:12
where I've come from in sport it's you
00:09:15
discover that it's about when youve
00:09:17
doing something that you that's got
00:09:18
purpose that you always do it better so
00:09:21
that working in that industry has giv me
00:09:23
the chance giving my wife the chance to
00:09:25
be able to um add value to our community
00:09:29
keeping people
00:09:30
moving um building Community because
00:09:34
that's that's meant a whole lot to us so
00:09:36
it's been the fitness industry uh it's
00:09:38
been working in my brother's uh security
00:09:41
company as well and watching um his
00:09:44
success for being a part being a part of
00:09:47
um helping build that as
00:09:49
well and uh as of late you know as of
00:09:52
March this year um an owner an insurance
00:09:55
broker so protect for life is what I'm
00:09:57
doing it's still aligned with all the
00:09:59
work that I do which is around people
00:10:01
looking after them giving them peace of
00:10:03
mind um so I'm really privileged to be
00:10:06
working around around and alongside some
00:10:08
great people and I'm just I'm still on
00:10:11
that curve just constantly trying to
00:10:13
trying to be better have bad days but
00:10:15
hey get a chance to get up the next day
00:10:17
and and go back at it again yeah what
00:10:19
does a bad day look like for you well a
00:10:21
bad day might look like
00:10:23
um when you're when you're day are
00:10:26
preparing for fight for life and you
00:10:28
fight found that find out that you got a
00:10:30
high condition um and that changes
00:10:32
everything it just it changes one of the
00:10:35
things that former covers being able to
00:10:36
exercise yeah and when you can't do that
00:10:39
to the capacity that you enjoy doing
00:10:41
that and you have to look at things a
00:10:43
little bit differently um it starts with
00:10:47
a bad day and then you realize that
00:10:49
actually I'm still here I found this out
00:10:52
early and uh I've got the opportunity to
00:10:55
do something about it well that's the
00:10:56
that's the other side of it that's
00:10:57
looking through the right lens I
00:11:00
yeah so are you on um medication for the
00:11:02
heart or do you have to just watch what
00:11:04
you eat or you can't exercise too hard
00:11:05
or what does it mean um it means yeah
00:11:08
I'm on medication yeah um better
00:11:10
blockers and um and blood thinners you
00:11:13
know so you know obviously they sort of
00:11:16
change the the chemicals in your body so
00:11:19
every time I I look at myself I'm like
00:11:21
man that's not where I want to
00:11:23
be um I don't know I think you're
00:11:25
looking great and there always you
00:11:27
always harder on yourself right yeah
00:11:29
yeah but um yeah just trying to adjust
00:11:31
to that I don't really want to be on
00:11:33
medication for the rest of my life I
00:11:35
want to be able to hopefully look after
00:11:36
my diet my exercise that I can go and
00:11:39
live long lives like um and enjoy that
00:11:42
with alongside My Wife and Kids yeah so
00:11:45
how many fights did you I didn't know
00:11:46
anything about the heart thing but um I
00:11:48
did a lot of reading and researching for
00:11:49
this um did you get to fight at all you
00:11:51
were fighting wangy copu are you talking
00:11:53
about fight on the ring yeah oh know
00:11:56
we'll get to the fights on the field you
00:11:59
on the receiving end of most of them did
00:12:01
did you end up getting in a fight in the
00:12:02
ring No I um because of the medication
00:12:05
I'm on like blood thinness you can't you
00:12:07
can't play any context for is because
00:12:10
cuz obviously you know the D too
00:12:11
dangerous too dangerous so it's a lot of
00:12:14
work that goes into that d i was uh
00:12:17
spent a long time preparing for that cuz
00:12:18
I wanted to do it well and I had a great
00:12:20
coach Monty beam um and he's a
00:12:23
Taskmaster he put He put you put you to
00:12:25
your work but um I think I remember
00:12:28
doing around 90 rounds in the last in
00:12:30
the last week preparing for it and I was
00:12:33
every time I was driving from and and to
00:12:36
training I was just like what the hell
00:12:38
why the hell am I doing this I thought
00:12:39
rugby was hard doing a sport like boxing
00:12:42
with just you um man that's a real test
00:12:46
so I have a lot of respect for those
00:12:47
people yeah so I see you didn't make it
00:12:49
into the ring make it into the ring no
00:12:51
cuz you were you were talking about um
00:12:53
giving it a real red hot crack for a
00:12:55
while maybe fighting Paul gallon the
00:12:57
Australian guy and yeah I don't know
00:12:58
what El I was thinking I was
00:13:01
probably um but you know when we talk
00:13:04
about what do people's mindsets look
00:13:06
like I'm probably one of those people
00:13:08
that uh if I got something to work
00:13:09
towards then I'm going to um put all my
00:13:11
time and energy into that so I was
00:13:14
definitely committed to that yeah you
00:13:16
were hey um okay let's go way back um so
00:13:19
you you're um s but you're born in tooda
00:13:23
um so your grandparents move over and
00:13:24
they settle and JZ they must have been
00:13:26
the when did they move there they must
00:13:27
have been the only s there
00:13:29
in the 50s as well in the 50s so like
00:13:32
you know there was these beautiful big
00:13:34
cities ockland and Christ Church and
00:13:36
Wellington but they um settled and took
00:13:38
it all all places did they have like a
00:13:39
job there in the mill or yeah and that's
00:13:42
I think that was primary reason so my
00:13:44
grandfather worked there um and yes we
00:13:47
were one of the first Polynesians uh in
00:13:49
took all so you know we come from a an
00:13:52
awesome Legacy of um of grandparents
00:13:55
that built um communities down there and
00:13:58
so yep Grandad worked at the m so to my
00:14:02
uncles so to my dad um so you know when
00:14:05
I think about some of those things that
00:14:06
you you learn as you grow up all those
00:14:08
environments you're in Just Around good
00:14:11
hardworking people work hard for their
00:14:13
families want to do the same thing too
00:14:15
and did you growing I don't know if
00:14:16
you're the same age maybe you're a
00:14:18
little bit older but did you know um
00:14:20
Richard kahoy or quaade Cooper or the
00:14:22
edes boys I'll shamely say I'm a little
00:14:26
bit older than those guys I do know I
00:14:28
did know them in um
00:14:29
in toor but uh yeah I was I was a little
00:14:32
bit older so um I always say that toor
00:14:36
is the biggest town in the world because
00:14:38
everyone knows someone there someone
00:14:39
stayed there or there's you know when
00:14:42
you look at the amount of athletes that
00:14:43
are come out or sorry Talent that's come
00:14:45
out of that place has been pretty
00:14:46
special yeah and um what was your
00:14:48
upbringing like was it was it like a
00:14:50
strict Samoan upbringing or um good
00:14:53
question actually you know my dad um is
00:14:56
is from sore so probably a little bit
00:14:58
more traditional
00:14:59
um and my mom was born in New Zealand so
00:15:04
um we just had we had the best of both
00:15:06
worlds and so who was the disciplinarian
00:15:08
and who was the who was the the one that
00:15:10
you went to for cattles I'd like to
00:15:13
actually I actually think my mom was the
00:15:15
disciplinary you know it was Dad just
00:15:17
take took a look you know most people
00:15:20
know know what your Dads look like when
00:15:22
you when you stepped the line and then
00:15:24
um but it was Mom that was having to do
00:15:25
the disciplinary cuz Dad was always he
00:15:28
was he was always to work for us so but
00:15:31
good upbringing I think it's one of the
00:15:33
center pieces one of these pieces that
00:15:34
uh really helped me and my life help my
00:15:38
siblings as well just uh just having
00:15:40
great parents you know we've had that
00:15:42
we' had good relationships all through
00:15:44
our life with them as well and
00:15:46
unfortunately we're missing our mom uh
00:15:48
we we lost her around this time last
00:15:50
year yeah July last year yeah and so
00:15:54
life's been really different without her
00:15:56
cuz she was the matriarch of our family
00:15:58
she's the she was the glue so um we
00:16:02
spent a lot of time actually with our
00:16:03
Dad we're out on the golf course
00:16:04
yesterday for his birthday how's he now
00:16:07
he's 74 is he still working he he just
00:16:09
finished like so just before we lost mom
00:16:12
um he was made redundant and I could
00:16:14
never see my dad redundant as well
00:16:16
because he was one of those guys up at
00:16:18
4:30 off to work you know just routine
00:16:22
that routine of his life but now that
00:16:24
he's finished him he's
00:16:26
um when I talked to him I said to him
00:16:28
dad remember but that was you he goes
00:16:30
yeah I can't I don't know why I did it
00:16:31
for so long you know so because I heard
00:16:34
a podcast you did um I was listening to
00:16:37
this the other day and uh was your dad
00:16:39
he must have been like 7071 at the time
00:16:41
and he was still working and um he said
00:16:43
to you like as a a a a pride sort of
00:16:46
thing like son I'm I'm still paying the
00:16:47
tax man I'm still paying the tax man
00:16:49
like a badge of honor that's it and real
00:16:52
pride in the fact he was working oh and
00:16:54
I love that about them those are these
00:16:56
are some of the these are some of the
00:17:00
it's a thought process but also the
00:17:01
mindset that um hopefully we can we as
00:17:04
his children his grandchildren will take
00:17:06
into their lives as well is that um
00:17:09
being proud about what you do and what
00:17:11
you achieve um yeah I hope hope we all
00:17:14
have that same mindset as him as well
00:17:16
yeah and and your mom she was um like a
00:17:18
loved and respected kindy teacher yes
00:17:20
she was an early Child Care Center yeah
00:17:22
from when we were young as well and part
00:17:24
of our um part of our our golf day
00:17:28
yesterday is you know we we eventually
00:17:30
want to make this golf day into
00:17:32
something that we can do some
00:17:33
fundraising for Early Child Care Centers
00:17:35
cuz um you know one of our family
00:17:39
businesses is is we're still in that as
00:17:42
well we our family do Early Child Care
00:17:44
Center
00:17:45
but one of the most beautiful things I'd
00:17:48
seen D in my time was actually um when
00:17:50
our mom passed I had so many people come
00:17:52
up to me look a lot of people come up to
00:17:55
us and say I know Luke your older
00:17:57
brother or I know Kev but it was the
00:17:59
amount of people that I would meet and
00:18:01
say your mom taught me and these are
00:18:03
adults and she teaches my kids as well
00:18:06
so she's left left behind a a huge
00:18:10
Legacy and as a yeah as a as her son and
00:18:14
and as as a as
00:18:17
a person that she's left behind we're
00:18:19
trying to live that trying to carry on
00:18:20
that Legacy for her yeah what was um was
00:18:24
it
00:18:25
diabetes um mom had a few complications
00:18:28
actually and I think um diabetes might
00:18:31
may have been one of it
00:18:33
so yeah it's quite hard adjusting uh
00:18:37
when you know you're just so used to
00:18:39
having that love and support around you
00:18:41
and just I always say she was one of
00:18:44
those people that never she's never
00:18:46
judging people you could go to her with
00:18:48
any problem and just someone that
00:18:51
listened and
00:18:53
never was listening to answer your
00:18:55
question just listening so she was
00:18:57
amazing and my
00:18:59
life yeah must heaps oh I can tell yeah
00:19:03
yeah I saw a post you put on um um
00:19:06
Instagram um with a photo of your mom it
00:19:08
must have been maybe on the one year
00:19:09
anniversary and you used um the line of
00:19:11
The Edge heing song that I wish that
00:19:13
heaven had visiting our yes yeah yeah I
00:19:16
mate I'm so sorry for your loss I can't
00:19:17
imagine the the hole that left yeah
00:19:19
thank you D yeah um yeah no I really
00:19:23
appreciate it yeah how's your dead is he
00:19:26
right I think he's doing as well as can
00:19:28
be you know he um that's his best that
00:19:30
was his best friend and uh I still
00:19:34
remember him saying to me these are the
00:19:36
now that I'm finished work now that I'm
00:19:37
retired these are the days I was
00:19:38
supposed to be spending with your mom so
00:19:41
I think what you know what that installs
00:19:43
into US is that making the most of every
00:19:45
day you know we're not promised here
00:19:48
so why wait why wait until you retired
00:19:52
to have these good days just try and
00:19:54
have more of them more days that you can
00:19:56
remember good days I love that ke that's
00:19:58
such a attitude can you remember can you
00:20:00
remember your last conversation with her
00:20:02
or were you were you there when she
00:20:04
passed I was the funny story um actually
00:20:08
is that she first uh went into hospital
00:20:10
she had a fall um at at dayare at at the
00:20:15
at the center and um she had to go into
00:20:18
uh middlemore and this was the time of
00:20:20
the lockdown so OK was lock down you
00:20:24
couldn't move around um but I managed to
00:20:27
get into the hospital
00:20:31
yeah did did you say do you know do you
00:20:33
put the old black head on did you say do
00:20:35
you know who I am I'm not want to Splash
00:20:38
my name out but that was the that was
00:20:40
going to be the only time that I was
00:20:41
going to use it to get in to see Mom so
00:20:44
um and it worked and uh when I
00:20:47
eventually found out what are you doing
00:20:48
here I eventually got kicked out but um
00:20:51
I managed to be in there um and be there
00:20:54
for
00:20:55
mom on behalf of our family and um
00:20:59
yeah and so yeah that that was hard and
00:21:02
but but having those conversations you
00:21:04
know these conversations you have with
00:21:06
your parents when it's just you and Mom
00:21:08
or Dad um there probably things that you
00:21:10
don't need to share but everyone knows
00:21:12
that you have those conversations that
00:21:14
just they will stay for you stay with
00:21:16
you for life and um those are yeah those
00:21:19
are some special moments
00:21:21
yeah it's been like um just a year and a
00:21:24
bit now how long was it before you could
00:21:26
talk about it without getting emotional
00:21:28
oh I can still feel myself golfing at
00:21:30
the
00:21:31
moment
00:21:33
um yeah I think that's that says a lot
00:21:35
about um yeah like showing emotion about
00:21:38
that I think it says a lot about the
00:21:40
relationship you had and just you know
00:21:41
how much you miss her and how much she
00:21:42
means to you I think that's it's it's a
00:21:44
cool thing right yes most definitely and
00:21:48
I've especially for our kids and all our
00:21:51
and all our
00:21:52
grandchildren um because we lost our
00:21:55
grandparents early yeah we lost them
00:21:57
actually I lost my my grandparents like
00:21:59
in their 60s and when I was young you
00:22:01
know you used to think that was old yeah
00:22:04
right yeah yeah and as you get old you
00:22:06
go
00:22:07
man we' missed out on a lot so yeah I
00:22:11
think yeah it's it's always it always um
00:22:14
I can still feel my heart cracking a
00:22:16
little bit when we talk about it but um
00:22:19
I know there there are many other people
00:22:20
that have that have been through the
00:22:22
same thing as well yeah yeah well thanks
00:22:24
for sharing that um while while we're on
00:22:27
your mom um I I read in an interview
00:22:29
somewhere she she described you as a
00:22:30
little boy as being
00:22:32
mischievous were you and it's hard to
00:22:36
like it's it's hard to imagine anything
00:22:38
about Kevin Mami being mischievous what
00:22:40
did she
00:22:42
mean we we we were you like were you a
00:22:45
naughty kid or was it just like standard
00:22:47
standard little boy stuff well
00:22:49
definitions of naughty right
00:22:52
so yeah so I always think you know if
00:22:54
we're playing Cricket in the backyard
00:22:56
hit the tennis ball and it's in the
00:22:57
gutter we we would be the on to climb
00:22:59
the roof you know go up the side of the
00:23:01
go up the side fence onto the roof
00:23:04
jumping off the side of the house you
00:23:05
know those sort of things smashing
00:23:07
windows then trying to go to sleep early
00:23:09
before Dad finished work so he want to
00:23:11
get in
00:23:12
trouble or did you used to get the wait
00:23:14
until your father gets home oh bro I
00:23:17
used to get that too and then by the
00:23:19
time Dad get home from work I'd
00:23:21
forgotten what I wasn't even in trouble
00:23:23
for I used to hate that you know and it
00:23:25
was always the same too was always me
00:23:27
and my brother you know cuz we were so
00:23:29
always outside broke a lot of things at
00:23:32
home you
00:23:33
[Laughter]
00:23:35
know M like I can see parallels like me
00:23:37
and my little brother and we' we'd play
00:23:39
sport and it always end up in fights and
00:23:41
something about um like the glass
00:23:44
windows in the 70s and ' 80s it was
00:23:46
really thin they were really you had a
00:23:48
tennis ball against a window and it
00:23:49
would break and you know you still
00:23:52
remember it was always slow motion you
00:23:53
just see it going towards the window
00:23:55
you're like no no no and then you just
00:23:58
stores on you dad's going to be home in
00:24:00
2 hours time oh my goodness so um yeah I
00:24:05
suppose she was right you were well I
00:24:06
mean sneaking into middlemore to see her
00:24:08
that was mischievous that was one I had
00:24:10
to do I had to do that I had to that's
00:24:13
one of those moments where you're just
00:24:14
like family I'm going to do this I don't
00:24:16
like doing I don't
00:24:18
like yeah yeah we made it we made it
00:24:20
happen so um oh that's cool I bet you
00:24:22
don't regret that at all that's really
00:24:24
cool yeah so yes yes so you you were
00:24:27
there when she passed and and then she
00:24:29
passed we were all there we were all in
00:24:32
uh we were lucky enough to have family
00:24:34
in oh that's nice so um yeah she she
00:24:37
came home for the last couple of days
00:24:40
and uh yeah just uh I don't know she she
00:24:44
wasn't she wasn't uh awake but um there
00:24:47
was just as she walked in the door uh
00:24:51
she opened her eyes and was happy to be
00:24:53
home that's where she wanted to be in
00:24:55
her own house so so she had all her
00:24:57
family all our family and friends around
00:25:00
had us all around so it's probably
00:25:03
special moment for us yeah oh that's
00:25:05
cool so you guys moved from um too to
00:25:08
Oakland how old were you then um I think
00:25:11
I was uh 14 right what was that like
00:25:14
it's a big adjustment hey I didn't want
00:25:16
to move to be honest you know cuz that's
00:25:18
where all my friends were we were
00:25:20
comfortable um but I always think you
00:25:22
know Forward Thinking parents we have
00:25:24
you know Polynesian as well and they
00:25:27
were asking us they they set us down and
00:25:29
said no what do you think about moving
00:25:31
to Oakland and we were just thinking
00:25:33
about friends and and things that were
00:25:36
comfortable they were thinking about our
00:25:37
future so um yeah as as as tough as it
00:25:41
was moving early we quickly found
00:25:46
friends found like this yeah this was
00:25:49
home for us as well yeah and were you
00:25:51
were you playing were you good at rugby
00:25:53
then yeah I played a little bit of rugby
00:25:55
when I I was yeah I was I did a bit of
00:25:57
representing for wakat and um South
00:26:00
wakat when I was growing up so it was
00:26:03
always I was always I always had this
00:26:05
aspiration to to want to play for the O
00:26:08
Dom I know a lot of people talk about
00:26:11
wanting to do that um but I'm one of the
00:26:14
I'm one of the real lucky blessed people
00:26:16
that have been able to follow it
00:26:18
through well not just follow it through
00:26:20
you were greedy you you have you hogged
00:26:22
that Jersey for a long
00:26:24
time and absolute privilege you know I
00:26:28
wanted to make sure I could do that well
00:26:29
so and you did so why um so so after
00:26:32
school you were um you got an
00:26:34
apprenticeship as a sign writer y so
00:26:36
were you you weren like straight out of
00:26:38
school into into like professional rugby
00:26:40
or a super team or I remember actually
00:26:43
when I finished school cuz I I played I
00:26:44
was a loose forward I was a number seven
00:26:46
I was an open side flanker um growing up
00:26:48
and as I was getting I missed out a
00:26:51
couple year in my last year um on a
00:26:55
couple of teams and they just said
00:26:57
you're not going to make it any fur
00:26:58
further in this position and maybe I
00:27:01
heard this wrong I did go to one trial I
00:27:03
thought in my head that he said you won
00:27:05
make it any further you won't make it
00:27:07
any further he probably said you won't
00:27:09
make it any further as a number seven
00:27:11
but I took of it the other way you're
00:27:13
not going to make it any further so you
00:27:16
know when we talk about drivers that's
00:27:17
probably one of them that was one of the
00:27:18
drivers that
00:27:20
actually well I'm going to show you
00:27:21
something different of fuel to motivate
00:27:23
you oh big time yeah yeah yeah and then
00:27:25
so then and and then you made it into
00:27:27
the Chiefs that was your first yeah your
00:27:29
first super team no I played two years
00:27:30
at the blues actually right and it was
00:27:32
my third year but um I think I was just
00:27:35
I was just being dragged Along on on my
00:27:37
teammates coils you know I was happy to
00:27:39
be there cuz I was playing alongside
00:27:42
some of the guys I'd watched from high
00:27:43
school so when you're in that
00:27:45
environment and when you seeing these
00:27:48
guys that you've looked up to um you're
00:27:50
in awe quite a bit it's quite easy to
00:27:52
like who who drop some of these names oh
00:27:54
like Ronnie Clark was still playing we
00:27:57
had I was playing along Craig D just
00:27:59
imagine having him as your prop
00:28:02
when so the Leo laf uh Charles rman so
00:28:08
they were man I feel bad cuz I know I'm
00:28:10
leaving some out but um Craig gness
00:28:13
there was Junior T there were guys that
00:28:15
actually they were part of this Blues
00:28:18
era where they were Unstoppable and now
00:28:21
that I was playing alongside them um
00:28:23
yeah I unashamedly say that um I was
00:28:26
turning up to training like
00:28:28
I can't believe this you know oh feeling
00:28:30
like an imposter imposter yeah yeah big
00:28:34
time wow that's so cool okay okay we're
00:28:36
on the rugby stuff so let's talk about
00:28:37
that so first of all like what is a what
00:28:39
is the job of a
00:28:45
hooker thank you can you do that
00:28:48
question again oh yeah what what is the
00:28:51
role of a hooker it's a good question
00:28:54
there's core rules every every hooker
00:28:56
should know how to throw the ball in
00:28:59
for the line out yeah it's a big
00:29:02
responsibility it is a big
00:29:03
responsibility um no we had a hook hook
00:29:06
a ball in a scrum so I know how to
00:29:08
scrummage as well but then there's all
00:29:10
these other parts to which is uh that's
00:29:12
just part of being a rugby player run
00:29:14
tackle
00:29:16
pass get over the ball contest the ball
00:29:19
um it's really it's really quite simple
00:29:22
but actually hard to execute so I can
00:29:25
tell you for sure that I was one of
00:29:27
those guys that um really struggled in
00:29:29
here with throwing the ball in I knew
00:29:33
skill skill-wise I could throw the ball
00:29:35
but there were moments in games actually
00:29:37
they really tested um I'd say this and
00:29:40
this you know so every time I see
00:29:44
hookers that that have probably had two
00:29:46
or three bad throws in a row I
00:29:48
understand what they're going through I
00:29:50
know what they're thinking about I've
00:29:52
been to the dairy and had uh my Dairy
00:29:55
owner say to me K you just have to throw
00:29:57
the ball in
00:29:59
and I'm saying yeah I just want to get
00:30:00
some
00:30:03
Muk but D it's a it's the it's it's a
00:30:06
little things like that that people
00:30:07
don't really think about a player would
00:30:09
carry that on their shoulder you'd carry
00:30:11
that on your shoulder just it's a little
00:30:14
chirp but it's still on your shoulder
00:30:16
when you're when you're going about your
00:30:17
job you just have to throw the ball in
00:30:18
straight you got one you know it's a
00:30:20
throwaway line doesn't mean you anything
00:30:22
to anyone but um just imagine if it's
00:30:25
two people and then three people will
00:30:27
said that we've seen something in the
00:30:28
paper then it just looks a little bit
00:30:29
bigger on your shoulder so it's just uh
00:30:32
I have a lot of time and empathy for
00:30:35
guys that are throwing the ball on cuz
00:30:37
it's often their fault isn't
00:30:39
it but on on on reflection I don't know
00:30:42
if I'll get much of an answer out of you
00:30:43
for this one because you you know you
00:30:44
are just so modest but um modesty aside
00:30:47
like on on reflection what was it that
00:30:49
made you so good for so
00:30:53
long um so like like a combination of
00:30:56
natural talent and hard work
00:30:59
or what was it cuz you were you were
00:31:02
there how many 133 tests 132 132 test
00:31:07
yeah it's crazy you're there for like 12
00:31:09
years 13
00:31:10
years um it's question four Rugby World
00:31:12
Cup campaigns you you didn't win the
00:31:14
first two but you did win the second to
00:31:16
like it's a a crazy long career I think
00:31:19
there's a there's a there's a couple of
00:31:21
things to that maybe if I just look from
00:31:23
outside from where what what I was lucky
00:31:25
enough to do my my support
00:31:28
the people that were around me family
00:31:30
especially my family um that was just
00:31:34
like this the whole time so whatever I
00:31:36
was going through in rugby um
00:31:40
they no judgment come home had a bad
00:31:43
game it's all good better next week so
00:31:46
that's that's a that's a strong piece of
00:31:48
who I am so I understand that that's
00:31:50
that support piece was really big but
00:31:52
want to maybe for me I think where it
00:31:55
really changed for me is I always talk
00:31:58
to our young people about purpose so
00:32:00
when I went down to play for the
00:32:02
Chiefs um I was in the middle of
00:32:05
building a house so unfinished I had a
00:32:07
house that was unfinished and our my
00:32:10
wife was carrying our son Samuel so and
00:32:14
you know as I'm out mowing the lawn she
00:32:16
comes to me with the phone and it's
00:32:17
coach and I'm expecting him to say get
00:32:19
ready for preseason uh but he tells me I
00:32:22
haven't uh I'm not being selected this
00:32:24
year these are the things you need to
00:32:25
work on and uh my heart drops because I
00:32:28
know I haven't got a job anymore and
00:32:30
I've got all these things that I need
00:32:32
to I've got my family I need to look
00:32:34
look after I got a house that's
00:32:37
unfinished
00:32:38
um so when the opportunity for the
00:32:41
Chiefs comes within the
00:32:43
day um I woke my butt off I realized
00:32:46
that I've just been cruising
00:32:48
here and by the end of the year I become
00:32:50
an or they just put a lot of hard work
00:32:53
and dedication to it
00:32:55
so when I get a chance to reflect back
00:32:58
and look what what was the difference
00:32:59
here what was I was on the verge of
00:33:01
losing everything I wasn't going to be
00:33:03
able to do my job as a dad as and as a
00:33:07
husband
00:33:08
so purpose comes down to purpose what's
00:33:12
your purpose what's your drive family
00:33:13
for me the other part to it as well D I
00:33:16
think is
00:33:18
uh people talk about it it's hard
00:33:21
getting there but it's hard to stay in
00:33:23
there but my time as an all black we
00:33:26
always talked about what Legacy you
00:33:28
going to leave
00:33:29
behind what do you what what do you want
00:33:32
them talking about this team that's here
00:33:34
today uh I think that's that's what
00:33:37
drives you to be better want to be
00:33:39
Pioneers want to be able to do things
00:33:40
haven't been done
00:33:42
before we hadn't won a World Cup in
00:33:45
about 20 odd years and no team had gone
00:33:48
back back to back before we did so
00:33:51
wanting to be Pioneers I think something
00:33:53
that really drove me to am I doing the
00:33:56
right thing every day am I at the right
00:33:58
level does that display the um the
00:34:01
values of someone that or a team that
00:34:03
want to to do that so purpose and what
00:34:07
is what what are you going to leave
00:34:08
behind what's your legacy yeah God M
00:34:11
have got goosebumps oh good there
00:34:14
there's some good takeaways on that one
00:34:16
yeah so um yes so your your debut you to
00:34:19
yeah from the Chiefs so your debut was
00:34:20
November 23rd
00:34:22
2002 um were you sort of expecting to be
00:34:26
named like you had a really good super
00:34:28
season and you like your name was being
00:34:30
thrown around or was it a surprise how
00:34:31
did you find
00:34:33
out this is sh my age a little bit D cuz
00:34:36
you know we had just finished winning um
00:34:37
the NPC with Oakland yeah and we're in W
00:34:40
hickey uh celebrating with all our
00:34:42
families uh but I I heard my name over
00:34:45
transistor
00:34:47
radio I know what that is May a lot of
00:34:49
people listening to this or watching
00:34:50
this maybe under the age of 30 that we
00:34:52
have no
00:34:53
idea oh that's cool this is pre
00:34:56
smartphones this is pre yeah
00:34:58
it was like an actual transistor yeah it
00:35:01
was and so quite a special moment uh
00:35:04
actually and I didn't I didn't think I'd
00:35:06
hear my name like I I'd had a good um
00:35:09
super season um and also NPC
00:35:12
but but I missed out you know I'd had to
00:35:15
go down to the Chiefs to play so I
00:35:16
didn't actually in my in my mind think
00:35:19
that I would be an all black by the end
00:35:21
of the
00:35:22
year cool story about that though um D's
00:35:26
um you know when you talk about when
00:35:29
you're lucky enough to play in some of
00:35:30
these teams you're catching catching the
00:35:33
end of some awesome eras and then you're
00:35:36
just seeing the the beginnings of some
00:35:38
some awesome careers I was you know I
00:35:42
was on J J lomu's last um toz and O
00:35:47
Christian Cullen as
00:35:49
well and when I think about these
00:35:51
players you might not know that some of
00:35:53
our our viewers might not know them but
00:35:55
if if you're from our era and if they
00:35:58
had YouTube back now man if they had
00:36:01
access to what we've seen you'd
00:36:04
understand you'd understand the
00:36:07
magnitude of of that yeah oh everyone
00:36:10
everyone knows about those guys oh my
00:36:12
God that's amazing so um yeah yeah and
00:36:15
and Richie only made the team like a
00:36:17
year before you so he was he was a young
00:36:19
fellow as well yeah wow join so
00:36:23
um how intimidating was that what what
00:36:25
were you like I'd imagine that a young k
00:36:27
me would be quite a shy shy guy did you
00:36:30
speak to anybody like what was your
00:36:32
first couple of weeks in all black camp
00:36:33
like oh actually it was pretty good good
00:36:35
actually I had a you know had some good
00:36:37
mates on that I had um Bradley M uh
00:36:40
first tour as well and uh even Daniel
00:36:42
bra was over there with me as well so we
00:36:45
had an awesome team uh just good bunch
00:36:49
of guys over there really enjoyed
00:36:53
the having them with you cuz it's quite
00:36:55
a new space to be a part of um but no I
00:36:59
I really enjoyed it I was like a kid in
00:37:01
a candy store M you know if you've
00:37:03
you've seen an all black um where they
00:37:06
Kut You
00:37:07
Out imagine that for you especially your
00:37:09
first one holy heck you stand like it's
00:37:12
all free what is this who was you yeah
00:37:15
who was that John Mitchell the coach was
00:37:17
John Mitchell right so heans yeah yeah
00:37:20
and um good coaches like people always
00:37:21
ask me who's who's the best coach you
00:37:23
had I I it's hard to say because there's
00:37:27
so many
00:37:28
they're all good you just take these
00:37:29
bits and pieces you take out of everyone
00:37:31
yeah I was thinking about that the other
00:37:32
day because I've got um I've got Cali
00:37:34
coming over next week for a podcast and
00:37:36
um Legend and I I I was thinking about
00:37:39
you you being here today and Kelly
00:37:41
coming in next week and it's like um
00:37:43
John Mitchell is obviously a special
00:37:44
coach to you because he selected you and
00:37:47
you became an all black under him um he
00:37:49
was the guy that was the coach that sort
00:37:50
of ended K's International career so his
00:37:53
relationship with is you're probably
00:37:54
quite different and I suppose that's
00:37:56
just the path of a coach isn't
00:37:58
you're going to you're going to make
00:37:59
make dreams for people but you're going
00:38:00
to you know break some people's hearts
00:38:02
oh you know I've had those tough
00:38:04
conversations with coaches as well every
00:38:06
player wants to be the person that's out
00:38:08
there from the beginning of the game as
00:38:10
a hooker you want to be the one that
00:38:11
runs out of the number two um but as I
00:38:14
was through my career we're
00:38:16
transitioning through a 15-man game into
00:38:18
a 22 23 Man game where the bench
00:38:21
actually they weren't just on they
00:38:23
weren't there just to be on the bench if
00:38:25
someone couldn't finish a game they
00:38:27
actually part of the part of the game
00:38:29
plan how do you finish a game well how
00:38:30
do you bring on this energy that you
00:38:33
know um is part of winning game so I've
00:38:37
had those conversations asking coaches
00:38:39
what can I do to be the starter out
00:38:40
there and them coming back to me with
00:38:43
what you can do Off the Bench that's
00:38:45
what our team needs it just goes in one
00:38:47
a and straight out the other cuz no no
00:38:50
no that's not what I'm that's not what I
00:38:51
here wrong answer wrong who was that was
00:38:53
that uh Steve Hansen or was that was
00:38:56
that Steve it was Steve so yeah sorry
00:38:58
Steve wrong
00:39:00
answer but but those are the
00:39:02
conversations and you know there's
00:39:05
obviously lessons that that you go
00:39:06
through in your career that you go oh
00:39:09
okay I understand um yeah I've had a
00:39:11
couple of those games where
00:39:13
actually firstly man if you're sitting
00:39:16
on the bench with the or who gets to do
00:39:19
that secondly you got an opportunity to
00:39:21
do something so when you get on there
00:39:23
you better be ready so actually just
00:39:26
looking you know we're talking about
00:39:27
earlier when you've got a bit of lens on
00:39:29
things well I've still got a chance to
00:39:31
contribute uh to the team and it's still
00:39:34
at a meaningful time back into the game
00:39:36
as where games are won and man what a
00:39:40
privilege it is to be an O not everyone
00:39:42
gets to do that
00:39:43
right most of us oh most of not everyone
00:39:46
most of us don't yeah oh did you did you
00:39:49
not like um yeah did it sort of like
00:39:52
hurt your pride or something when you an
00:39:53
impact player cuz you just wanted to do
00:39:55
the whole 80 minutes oh yeah well just
00:39:57
you know when you've been a a starter
00:39:59
for a long time um does it feel like a
00:40:02
downgrade or something well it did back
00:40:04
then yeah you just usually the best
00:40:07
people start right and so before it was
00:40:11
a 23 a 22 23 Man game it sort of it was
00:40:16
wasn't really about playing to what your
00:40:18
strength size as a team it was just
00:40:19
usually the the best 15
00:40:22
start
00:40:24
yeah so um yes you as I mentioned before
00:40:27
you're involved in four World Cups so
00:40:30
2003 2007 both losses and then 2011 2015
00:40:34
both wins so you you got the bad ones
00:40:38
out of the way um
00:40:40
2007 is a particularly memorable one
00:40:43
mainly for that photo of um Ted Graham
00:40:45
Henry and Richie and Richie's um
00:40:48
everyone thought he was crying but I
00:40:49
think he was just wiping sweat off his
00:40:51
brow or something but you know the the
00:40:53
photo captured that moment what was um
00:40:55
what was that like that day that
00:40:58
moment where where you know you kicked
00:41:00
out of the um kicked out of the Rugby
00:41:02
World Cup is it still quite Vivid to
00:41:06
you probably so cuz it's probably our
00:41:08
early it was our earliest exit out of
00:41:09
the World Cup as
00:41:11
well I'd say every World Cup that all
00:41:13
black team goes to uh you're probably
00:41:15
ped to be the favorites or close to that
00:41:19
so what comes with that is a lot of
00:41:21
expectation and then thinking back to
00:41:23
that moment we were out of the World Cup
00:41:26
and the the team's you got to go home
00:41:27
the next day if you if you're out of the
00:41:29
World Cup next day you're on the next
00:41:31
plane out uh face the music face the
00:41:35
music so um oh we put a lot of work in
00:41:39
done things really different you know um
00:41:43
we we took the beginning of the Super
00:41:45
Rugby off to recondition to condition
00:41:48
ourselves but we were missing probably
00:41:50
one of the main ingredients which is
00:41:51
play
00:41:52
rugby so we were these good athletes
00:41:55
better athletes than what we'd ever been
00:41:56
but
00:41:58
good R good rugby players play rug rugby
00:42:00
week in week out you understand the
00:42:02
different nuances of rugby which is game
00:42:07
plans technical tactical these things
00:42:10
you can't do when you're not playing
00:42:12
rugby so yeah it was a disappointing
00:42:15
moment for us cuz we know we'd let
00:42:16
ourselves down but then when you have to
00:42:18
come back home to 3 million people and
00:42:22
say yeah what was a week early two weeks
00:42:24
early what was that homecoming like you
00:42:26
avoid going to the dairy by
00:42:28
milk well I think going this is yeah
00:42:31
this is probably one of those moments
00:42:33
where you're just like man is going to
00:42:36
the airport going onto your flight and
00:42:39
there's like kiwi coming past you going
00:42:42
where the hell are you guys going you
00:42:43
know they're coming over to watch semis
00:42:45
and finals so oh yeah yeah that's that's
00:42:48
a hard moment but I feel like you've um
00:42:51
you know you've got quite a good um
00:42:53
perspective on things like you know
00:42:55
you've got your you've got your
00:42:56
cornerstones of your life like your
00:42:57
family is important your religion is
00:42:58
important so I feel like you're I don't
00:43:00
know what I'm basing this on um but I
00:43:02
feel like you're able to sort of see
00:43:04
rugby for what it is it's just a game
00:43:06
it's not a matter of life and death
00:43:07
would that be faar or did it feel at the
00:43:09
time like it is a matter matter of life
00:43:11
and death yeah in the moment yeah I
00:43:14
think when you're going through certain
00:43:15
parts of your career you think it's the
00:43:17
be or and Endor I do remember sitting at
00:43:20
um Sunday lunch and this is something we
00:43:22
always do you know the whole family or
00:43:24
our siblings and grandchildren and
00:43:26
parents will be there but I remember
00:43:28
saying to dead you know just ask how my
00:43:30
week was and my head was down didn't
00:43:32
play
00:43:34
well game didn't turn out we got thumped
00:43:36
on the weekend and I ask you know how
00:43:38
was your day and he goes yeah no normal
00:43:40
week up at 4:00 getting ready for work
00:43:42
you know and just yeah just all da like
00:43:46
yeah stop stop being a [ __ ] and for
00:43:49
me to stop being a [ __ ] and actually
00:43:50
pull your head in say yeah perspective
00:43:53
he perspective um I you got a you got a
00:43:58
gift he for your under test like your
00:44:00
teammates chipped in and they got you
00:44:01
like a customade uh ring looks like
00:44:03
something the Mad Butcher would wear yes
00:44:06
um where where's that I notic you're not
00:44:08
wearing it is is it just too is it too
00:44:10
showy for you to wear I think it's it's
00:44:13
really cool actually um and I actually
00:44:16
haven't had the chance to wear it out
00:44:18
but this is this was my teammates really
00:44:20
thinking of me because they knew I Lov
00:44:21
the NFL and um when you w an NFL like a
00:44:26
Super Bowl Super Bowl think get Super
00:44:27
Bowl ring so as flashy as it looks it's
00:44:31
got some really nice pieces around it
00:44:32
it's got a cross on it it's got um old
00:44:34
black number it's got my kids um
00:44:36
initials on it it's quite flashy looking
00:44:39
but um they put a lot of time to put
00:44:40
some really cool meaning into it um yeah
00:44:45
just a bit flash to walk around with
00:44:49
3D yeah do um yeah do you have much in
00:44:52
the way memorabilia like you've got
00:44:54
World Cup medals obviously two two gold
00:44:57
World Cup medals um where are they like
00:44:59
do you have like a cabinet are they on
00:45:01
display or anything or they in a drawer
00:45:04
this is the funny thing D because you
00:45:05
know um things rust you know they lose
00:45:09
their shine and that it's the memories
00:45:11
that really stay with you I've got a lot
00:45:12
of memorabilia but the wife has kicked
00:45:15
it out of the house you know it's like
00:45:16
this doesn't look good you know all your
00:45:18
jerseys don't look good in the house so
00:45:20
it's in the garage it's in the in boxes
00:45:23
boxes but um yeah I think that's the mem
00:45:27
mories you carry with them M um yeah
00:45:30
they they are objects and you know
00:45:32
obviously they always used for cool
00:45:34
things like fundraisers and that but for
00:45:36
me um yeah it's all the memories that I
00:45:38
take away from them oh yeah St the yeah
00:45:41
that's yeah that is true the me memories
00:45:43
are yeah I sold a house recently that it
00:45:45
was a house that I lived in for 20 years
00:45:46
and I went through a lot there like um
00:45:48
and I was quite quite emotional um when
00:45:50
it came to selling it but then I you
00:45:52
know reminded myself that you know the
00:45:53
memories actually stay with you they're
00:45:55
not actually part of part of the house
00:45:57
just a property yes um yeah how many of
00:45:59
your jerseys have you got left I feel
00:46:00
like people would ask you for a jersey
00:46:02
for a charity auction and you just give
00:46:03
it up there's a lot of jues in
00:46:06
132 that's a lot of options uh no I've
00:46:10
got a I've got I've still got a few at
00:46:11
home actually and um I got a lot of jues
00:46:14
from opponents have played against so um
00:46:18
you know it's it's just cool bringing
00:46:19
them out every now and then having a
00:46:20
look and um but yeah I it's a privilege
00:46:24
to be able to share them with people
00:46:26
which is is you know fundraisers or
00:46:30
trying to do some stuff in our community
00:46:32
so yeah is is there is there like one
00:46:34
particular one that you'd never part
00:46:36
with like for your first test or your
00:46:38
100th or a World Cup final um I still
00:46:41
got my H 100th and been lucky enough to
00:46:43
share that with you know um give that to
00:46:45
family so
00:46:48
actually yeah I I don't have any Jersy
00:46:51
in specific because yeah I always think
00:46:54
there was there was the people that
00:46:55
helped give me the
00:46:58
thank you oh my God you are the nicest
00:47:02
gu ever you know what I mean though like
00:47:05
I think most people they see an end
00:47:07
product and think that's just that's it
00:47:09
is what it is but um you know when we
00:47:11
talk about perspective and who helps
00:47:13
helps get you there man my um my Village
00:47:17
or My Tribe or my I say island is huge
00:47:21
family and friends so um and that's the
00:47:24
way I felt throughout my whole life and
00:47:27
just the the support I've been lucky
00:47:29
enough to have behind me yeah we we roll
00:47:32
deep yeah are you yeah you quite
00:47:35
connected to your some own roots and
00:47:36
culture I am yeah yeah and
00:47:40
um actually awesome you bring that up D
00:47:43
is probably one of the
00:47:44
things if I'm being totally vulnerable
00:47:47
with everyone is uh one of the things I
00:47:50
know really L myself down on is not
00:47:53
being able to speak my language speak
00:47:55
some full someon fluent
00:47:58
and um yeah it's something I wish I had
00:48:01
done earlier and I can blame you know
00:48:03
growing up in toor it wasn't many people
00:48:05
to talk to um but it's something when I
00:48:09
when as I go through life I'm still open
00:48:11
to learning um but I'm GED I didn't
00:48:14
learn my
00:48:15
language and beginning of the year I had
00:48:18
the chance to take the um member the the
00:48:22
the of the speaker for um the parliament
00:48:26
of s take him through all black
00:48:28
experience just him and his team awesome
00:48:32
it it was totally awesome but I couldn't
00:48:34
sleep that night because I was thinking
00:48:35
to myself how am I going to um how do I
00:48:38
greet properly
00:48:41
respectfully and do this properly so
00:48:44
even when I was driving all the way in I
00:48:45
was just like man I'm I feel like I'm
00:48:47
letting down my family you know cuz as I
00:48:50
walk in there you carry your family name
00:48:52
as well so I just and it wasn't until I
00:48:56
get to like Spaghetti Junction no almost
00:48:58
there I was just like well you're just
00:49:00
going to have to accept me for who I am
00:49:02
I'm a proud someon I'm GED I can't speak
00:49:06
someon fluently um but I'm proud of my
00:49:10
roots so yeah that's that's I walked and
00:49:13
I had an awesome time yeah they were
00:49:15
they were amazing so oh you can't beat
00:49:17
yourself up too much about that I was
00:49:19
though I was yeah
00:49:21
sweating couldn't
00:49:24
sleep oh there was um uh um something
00:49:27
that I I didn't know existed but I uh I
00:49:30
saw an interview with Richard Kaho and
00:49:31
he talked about something called a
00:49:32
little black book and you presented him
00:49:34
a little a little black book yes what's
00:49:36
what's the little black book I've never
00:49:38
ever heard about this before in terms of
00:49:39
the um like the old black Legacy um I'd
00:49:43
say you know just broadly it's probably
00:49:45
like a manual but uh just with a bit
00:49:48
more purpose and meaning behind it you
00:49:49
know it's uh I think it just gives the
00:49:52
opportunity for players to know what's
00:49:55
come before them what what it means to
00:49:58
be playing for the
00:50:00
O and then there's you I suppose there's
00:50:02
a bid in there as well what what are you
00:50:05
going to how you going to add to this
00:50:06
Legacy as well so it's quite special
00:50:09
when you know there's some things that
00:50:10
um they should
00:50:13
stay unspoken about because it's just
00:50:17
the special things that everything gets
00:50:19
shared these days but it's probably one
00:50:21
thing that a an all black has that's
00:50:23
just just for them so is that why I've
00:50:26
never heard about it
00:50:27
you never hear anyone sort of speak
00:50:28
about it but but it's s like um so
00:50:29
there's some text in there and then is
00:50:31
it like a journal and you write yep
00:50:33
there's a there's definitely parts to
00:50:34
with the journal at the back but it just
00:50:37
shows where where we've come from where
00:50:40
we are today where we going or what were
00:50:42
you leaving this
00:50:44
jersey jeez you must have gone through a
00:50:46
few of them 133 test you need to add
00:50:50
some more pages and or something yeah
00:50:52
and you know um a lot of it's up here
00:50:55
but there special moments you know when
00:50:57
I'm our Journal heaps so like got heaps
00:51:00
of like journals at home or sketchbooks
00:51:02
as well that's another passion on mine
00:51:05
but just when you go over things that
00:51:07
you've been able to write down it's
00:51:09
always awesome when you go back and oh
00:51:11
this is where I was at this time in my
00:51:12
life this is where my thoughts were yeah
00:51:15
they're pretty pretty cool to go over
00:51:17
those sort of things you know yeah I
00:51:18
heard that about you with um journaling
00:51:20
like you've been doing this since you
00:51:22
were like a kid since what age um when
00:51:25
did you start journaling
00:51:27
I I suppose it's not journaling when
00:51:29
you're young but you know taught to I
00:51:31
was been part of rugby for a long time
00:51:33
so writing out your goals mhm how you
00:51:35
going to do them how long is it going to
00:51:37
take I think these things are really
00:51:39
important cuz um thoughts come and go
00:51:42
once it's on paper it's with you you can
00:51:44
put it up you can share it you can
00:51:47
you've got a reference point so always
00:51:50
in I always encourage people to do that
00:51:52
yeah cuz once you know people say no
00:51:54
it's all up here comes goes yeah so you
00:51:59
you do you like Journal Daily Now not
00:52:01
daily but there just moments where I
00:52:03
just you know thinking about things
00:52:05
things that inspire me um things that I
00:52:08
know I want to keep this cuz it's a gym
00:52:11
um oh yeah just if I'm trying to find
00:52:14
that inspiration in my life sometimes
00:52:15
it's nice to write it down where do want
00:52:17
where do I want to go who do I want to
00:52:20
be how do I do it yeah and and you
00:52:22
mentioned um the drawing as well like
00:52:24
yeah your art is really good you I me
00:52:26
mentioned before like you you were
00:52:28
training to be a sign writer um you've
00:52:30
Illustrated Kids books and stuff and
00:52:33
um uh yeah drawing is it something you
00:52:35
find quite quite cathartic it's
00:52:36
something you did to like cam the nerves
00:52:38
when you on tour and stuff yes well do
00:52:41
and my family you other sports person or
00:52:43
your um artistic sports or or Arts um
00:52:48
and I think I sort of fell into both a
00:52:50
little bit so I love that doesn't mean
00:52:52
I'm good at it oh I just you're being
00:52:55
you're being very
00:52:57
it's good work but um yeah in my family
00:53:00
I just I can see those two threads
00:53:01
really
00:53:02
clear there's a we got a huge artistic
00:53:06
Musical part to our family but also the
00:53:09
love for sport and community in there so
00:53:12
yeah that's that's been a big part of
00:53:14
who I am yeah are you quite musical as
00:53:17
well I saw some I've got one some old
00:53:19
black book and there's a photo of you in
00:53:21
the back seat with um Richie mcco and a
00:53:24
couple of others it looks like you're
00:53:25
holding a guitar yeah I um I wish I was
00:53:28
better but I did learn to play the
00:53:30
guitar on tour n Tata was my music
00:53:33
teacher and you know cuz front row is
00:53:36
always most of the time they uh are
00:53:37
rooming together and he was awesome just
00:53:40
like you know people that um can listen
00:53:43
to a song and just learn to play it that
00:53:45
was him unreal unreal so yeah if I
00:53:48
wanted to play a
00:53:50
song play it to him you pick up all the
00:53:52
chords okay this is it and so yeah was
00:53:57
probably one of the cool Parts it's also
00:53:59
I think about rugby as well it's music
00:54:01
it's a big part of before and after
00:54:03
rugby you know when you're preparing for
00:54:06
rugby it's that part that gets you in
00:54:07
the right mindset but then after it's
00:54:09
that part where you're Bor so you can
00:54:12
imagine what a um playlist looks like
00:54:14
for all black group cuz City
00:54:17
Slickers
00:54:19
Farmers there's everything in between as
00:54:21
well so yeah yeah what what were you
00:54:25
what are you into what was your like
00:54:26
sort of hype music what sort of genre oh
00:54:28
I was I was definitely you know getting
00:54:31
ready for games was hip-hop and then as
00:54:33
I got older it turned into
00:54:37
R&B turning up you know I felt myself
00:54:40
being over overhyped going into games
00:54:44
which I think served me well as a
00:54:45
youngster but then as I got older it's
00:54:47
just like I just need to be a lot more
00:54:49
clearer and I just need to be more level
00:54:51
going into games so my music mowed out
00:54:54
heaps as I got older
00:54:57
yeah you're your very first all black
00:54:58
game so um yeah what's that experience
00:55:02
like like are you are you nervous is it
00:55:04
is it just excitement um and if you are
00:55:07
nervous are you nervous about um being
00:55:09
hurt are you just nervous about not
00:55:10
playing to your potential and not
00:55:11
getting another chance like you what's
00:55:13
that experience like I I'd imagine God
00:55:16
I'm just trying to place myself in that
00:55:17
position I think I'd feel sick sick with
00:55:20
worry sick with the
00:55:22
street it was a good training week we
00:55:25
prepared really well and I'd been away
00:55:26
on tour for three games England first
00:55:29
France but I never got on and then I
00:55:31
started against Wales and if you've ever
00:55:34
been to cff um and seen I don't know if
00:55:38
it's called Millennium Stadium anymore
00:55:39
but that Stadium holds 880,000
00:55:42
people it feels like they sit on top of
00:55:44
you so as you're coming down the tunnel
00:55:47
um a little bit different to some of our
00:55:49
venues at quite long they just they go
00:55:52
straight up so everyone's looking over
00:55:55
they're on top of the ground so it's a
00:55:58
huge moment walking out uh with an all
00:56:01
black Jersey and I I totally understand
00:56:03
when people say you feel like you've got
00:56:06
armor on you've got bulletproof vest on
00:56:09
because as
00:56:10
a if I'm lucky to say 5'10 I felt like I
00:56:13
was 6'3 when I was walking out just that
00:56:16
Pride that you have on your chest the
00:56:18
opportunity you have going through
00:56:21
um The Anthem and then doing the hucker
00:56:25
it's just it's all the things that
00:56:26
you've seen in life everything that I
00:56:28
wanted to be able to achieve and do and
00:56:31
then whistle goes and you're straight
00:56:33
into it and then you don't really think
00:56:34
about these moments you're just doing
00:56:36
you're just in the in rugby doing rugby
00:56:40
if that makes sense so the leadup is
00:56:42
it's quite emotional once you're in
00:56:44
rugby you're just doing what you do what
00:56:46
you love to do just muscle memory muscle
00:56:48
memory but just at a at a much more
00:56:52
intense level i' imagine do you do you
00:56:54
feel the the the the you the the level
00:56:56
of intensity rise immediately cuz I
00:56:59
suppose before then the biggest level
00:57:00
you would have played at would be like
00:57:01
Super Rugby that's it and you know I
00:57:04
looked across I was playing against a um
00:57:07
a Wy old vet Robin McBride he he looks
00:57:11
like a Wy vet and um when he when I
00:57:13
played against him he was that person he
00:57:15
was that all right this is this is your
00:57:17
introduction to um internal big boys to
00:57:20
the big boys so um yeah privilege to
00:57:23
play against them and um but but he set
00:57:26
the standard it was was Bloody high so
00:57:29
yep and and if if you make um like a a
00:57:33
bad mistake on the field if you do
00:57:34
something that I suppose what Springs to
00:57:38
mind is Steven Donald and that were you
00:57:39
there when he played that game and then
00:57:41
he became like public and be number one
00:57:42
for a while and was it a game in like
00:57:44
Japan or somewhere and lost to Australia
00:57:47
and I think it was in Hong Kong right
00:57:48
Hong Kong yeah yeah and he someone put a
00:57:51
bullet on his L box after he got back um
00:57:53
so that's an extreme example but say say
00:57:56
say you're playing and you have have not
00:57:57
a great game what do do you get what
00:58:00
happens after that like do you do you
00:58:01
get a dressing down from the coaches or
00:58:03
anyone or you you everyone leaves you
00:58:06
alone because they know that you haven't
00:58:07
met your own personal expectations or is
00:58:10
the main fear about what people are
00:58:11
going to say online or in the media what
00:58:13
happens well D I can say I pretty much
00:58:15
seen it all you know cuz I started back
00:58:17
in 2000 or 2002 as an all all the way
00:58:20
through to 2015 so the approach approach
00:58:24
there's a lot of different approaches
00:58:25
than there
00:58:27
probably the one I think for me as a
00:58:29
player probably the one that hurts the
00:58:31
most is when
00:58:32
um they don't talk
00:58:35
to you know like cuz you know usually
00:58:38
when someone gives you a spray spray and
00:58:41
then everything's good again yeah
00:58:43
ripping the Band-Aid off yeah and if
00:58:45
it's prais then you know you feel good
00:58:47
but when they let's just say a coach
00:58:50
walks past you doesn't say
00:58:52
anything that's just like that's like
00:58:54
when you like your when your your dad
00:58:57
says I'm disappointed that's worse than
00:58:59
getting a hiding
00:59:00
right it's like so yeah oh I think I've
00:59:04
Seen It All To be honest so it just
00:59:07
varies from coach to coach it varies
00:59:10
well most definitely everyone's got a
00:59:11
different approach to things and that
00:59:14
works you know I can understand being in
00:59:16
a team some for some people different
00:59:18
approaches work you know it's not one
00:59:21
siiz fo
00:59:23
all okay let's um yeah can we just talk
00:59:26
talk about some of the some of the I
00:59:27
suppose like negative stuff or stuff
00:59:30
that happened but by the way like not
00:59:32
that you ever really did anything wrong
00:59:34
I think a lot of these you were just the
00:59:35
victim in these things so there was um a
00:59:37
guy from the lions that was sent home
00:59:38
after biting your finger yes yeah yeah
00:59:42
did that what was that like having your
00:59:43
finger bitten he was saying that you you
00:59:45
hooked your finger in his mouth or
00:59:47
something so but he got sent home in in
00:59:49
disgrace um was it is it a painful
00:59:51
injury or are you a tough bugger no just
00:59:54
in the moment actually
00:59:56
and
00:59:58
um it's the first time we're playing
01:00:00
against the Lions as well so there's
01:00:01
like a lot of emotion flying and you
01:00:04
know being a part of those series
01:00:07
because they don't come around very
01:00:09
often so if you're a part of it it's
01:00:11
quite a special time and I know we might
01:00:14
view it as negative but it's it's just
01:00:16
how things pan out similar to Brian aiso
01:00:20
which was in the first test match
01:00:22
and accidentally gets tip tackled lands
01:00:25
on a should and then can't play the rest
01:00:26
of the of the the series T roomer in
01:00:30
yourself yeah yeah yeah you're
01:00:32
completely accidental but yeah nasty
01:00:34
yeah things just happen like that um
01:00:37
There's No Malice or meaning in behind
01:00:39
it it just things just happen so and the
01:00:42
same thing with biting of the finger
01:00:44
just things just
01:00:46
happen no nothing personal all that but
01:00:49
but it happened
01:00:50
so that's a that's a weird one though as
01:00:53
far as injuries go like being bitten on
01:00:54
the finger did you did you need any
01:00:56
treatment or anything or you just play
01:00:57
on or no it was just just uh B Max but
01:01:01
nothing no finger dangling you know any
01:01:05
other weird injuries um that you like
01:01:08
the Frenchman on for a while like for
01:01:10
grabbing testicles and things yeah I
01:01:13
think it's probably one of the things I
01:01:15
remember for my first um tour was seeing
01:01:18
Jonah running down the side line and um
01:01:21
one of the lucies was trying to tackle
01:01:23
him but he was only Hanging On By
01:01:26
the balls the balls
01:01:29
so I think I've seen the picture
01:01:31
somewhere just
01:01:36
like jeez you hope it was like the the
01:01:39
you the the deck rather than the balls
01:01:41
Technic that's painful um okay what
01:01:44
about um there was a clip I saw online I
01:01:46
think it was on YouTube of you being um
01:01:48
looks like it was in South Africa and um
01:01:49
someone hits you on the head with a
01:01:50
water bottle so you're on the field and
01:01:53
I thought it was a kid initially but it
01:01:54
looks like an old guy
01:01:56
some yeah what what happened there um it
01:01:59
was weird it was weird I think we had
01:02:01
just scored in the corner it was the end
01:02:03
of the game we were getting we played in
01:02:05
boria it's tough place to play like
01:02:07
attitude's hard enough but um the their
01:02:09
supporters are really passionate up
01:02:11
there as well
01:02:12
so I think we we lost to the Bulls but
01:02:16
we scored a try at the end and uh as I
01:02:18
was walking back with um Renee Ranger I
01:02:21
think scored the try in the corner feel
01:02:24
like a bang in the back of the head
01:02:27
looked back and someone thrown a water
01:02:29
bottle at me and was I didn't realize at
01:02:31
the moment cuz you know when you get
01:02:32
that Red Mist you don't really see much
01:02:35
but I did see a guy doing that and as I
01:02:38
got closer was an old
01:02:40
man yeah cuz you it's funny he cuz you
01:02:43
say the red Miss but um and you look
01:02:45
really fired up and um indignant which
01:02:48
you know it's totally fair enough but
01:02:50
how' you how' you reacted badly I mean
01:02:53
[ __ ] would have been terrible right yeah
01:02:55
well how do like how how do you stand in
01:02:57
control like you know you you're you're
01:03:00
the imposing guy on the field and you
01:03:01
know you as I said at the start you're a
01:03:03
Savage on the field but then for
01:03:05
something like that you have to switch
01:03:06
it off immediately yeah but you can't
01:03:08
cross that line that's a I think just as
01:03:10
I got closer I just real realized how
01:03:12
old he
01:03:13
was but but then you know it doesn't
01:03:16
matter
01:03:18
of put the side put aside the age you're
01:03:21
still accountable for what you do right
01:03:23
yeah so I was just hearing these
01:03:25
different voices on my head do something
01:03:27
don't do it he's too old
01:03:30
so one hand was like yeah do something
01:03:33
other hand was like no no no but um yeah
01:03:37
it's funny how all these things happen I
01:03:38
suppose when you I suppose when you play
01:03:40
a lot of games there's lot of these
01:03:42
experiences yeah oh there was the other
01:03:45
one who who was the Australian guy that
01:03:47
punched you on the face oh my good mate
01:03:49
Brendon Cannon yeah like like punch you
01:03:51
like right in the face you yeah what was
01:03:54
what was the story with that what
01:03:55
happened in the lead up to that how did
01:03:57
that happen it was a terrible day
01:03:59
terrible weather for a test match in
01:04:02
Wellington and um I just think it was
01:04:06
probably of the days where it was a lot
01:04:08
closer between us and Australia so the
01:04:10
tension's probably a little bit higher
01:04:12
but also um yeah must have been a bit of
01:04:16
banter going throughout the week so
01:04:18
everything's just a little bit more
01:04:19
tense and um he sees me at a on the side
01:04:24
of the rck he's got a a hand on me I
01:04:27
flick his hand off flicks it back and
01:04:30
then going to you know I just thought it
01:04:31
was it was we in the in that era where
01:04:34
you don't throw punches and he just
01:04:36
cracked me right in the middle of the
01:04:38
I've still got the Mark here actually to
01:04:40
to show it but he cracks me in the
01:04:41
middle of the head and I'm just I stand
01:04:43
there going people ask why didn't you
01:04:45
fall down I was cuz I was in shock I was
01:04:47
like I can't believe you punched me so
01:04:51
we stand in ex exchange for a few we get
01:04:53
we both get sent off at the same time
01:04:57
and the Bloody bugger when we we have to
01:04:59
get stitched up both of us when we're in
01:05:01
the same room and we just got one of
01:05:02
those like dividers between us goes hey
01:05:05
K how's the
01:05:07
family I was trying to find like a table
01:05:09
to throw over
01:05:12
the and funny enough we're still good
01:05:14
mates he he messaged me yesterday we
01:05:16
we're catching up down at the uh all
01:05:18
black wab game down at Wellington so
01:05:21
this is the beauty of rugby where you
01:05:23
know you things happen on the field off
01:05:26
the
01:05:28
field that's amazing yeah in that moment
01:05:32
how did you not um like why didn't you
01:05:34
retaliate I feel the the instinctual
01:05:36
thing to do would be to throw a punch
01:05:37
back oh yeah I did throw a couple back
01:05:40
oh did you I did but yeah that and like
01:05:44
you said it's probably Instinct you
01:05:46
don't sort of think about what if will I
01:05:49
get sent off it's that instinctual part
01:05:52
of playing rugby or playing contact
01:05:54
sport
01:05:56
um but yeah that's probably one of the
01:05:59
moments where we both could have handled
01:06:00
ourselves better especially H he started
01:06:04
it um yeah the odris thing that you
01:06:07
mentioned before like um I mean you yeah
01:06:09
as we've established you're like you're
01:06:11
one of the nicest guys imaginable and um
01:06:14
you've got an impeccable record but
01:06:15
something like that where where your
01:06:17
conduct uh gets called into questions
01:06:19
was was that one of the like hardest
01:06:20
chapters of your career yeah I think so
01:06:23
this is just um probably an action that
01:06:27
like we said rugby happens like this um
01:06:30
you
01:06:31
get ridiculed or that becomes people see
01:06:35
you as that you're that type of person
01:06:38
and um you know as a as a sports person
01:06:41
you can't take on too much of what
01:06:42
people think it starts to get dangerous
01:06:44
when you're talking about performing on
01:06:46
the field and what you're thinking about
01:06:47
and stuff but yeah it's going to Ireland
01:06:50
and getting a few side looks and uh
01:06:55
getting a few nice words um it's not
01:06:59
nice but um just got to deal with it so
01:07:01
yeah you're um all good with o Driscoll
01:07:04
have you seen him in the in the years
01:07:05
past I was at one of the one of the um
01:07:10
Hong Kong sevens that I went to when I
01:07:11
finished playing um went there and I was
01:07:13
just part of my uh my role when I was a
01:07:16
New Zealand Rugby Ambassador I was over
01:07:19
there doing some work for them and um
01:07:21
staying at the hotel go down for
01:07:22
breakfast and um looking there's no
01:07:24
spare seats left and the only I see him
01:07:28
sitting at the breakfast seeing at
01:07:30
breakfast and he's like do you want to
01:07:32
come and sit with me so yeah water under
01:07:34
the bridge like I said Rugby's rugby
01:07:37
there's things that happen on the field
01:07:38
and we had a good chat never talked
01:07:40
about what happened on the
01:07:42
field um but it was those are those
01:07:45
moments you're like oh good to have
01:07:47
these they sort of just put a into a
01:07:49
story you know yeah I like that and um
01:07:53
yeah Richie mccor and yourself you um
01:07:55
yeah he started like a year your your
01:07:56
career is like um basically ran parallel
01:07:59
didn't they so he he started like a year
01:08:01
before you but you both um ended at the
01:08:03
exact same time after the uh 2015 Rugby
01:08:05
World Cup and I've heard stories about
01:08:07
him um like getting back onto the P bus
01:08:10
after the game on the way back to the
01:08:11
hotel with his cat still on because he
01:08:13
knew that when he took it off it was
01:08:14
going to be the last time he took it off
01:08:16
um what about yeah what was that like
01:08:18
for you was that sort of um like a
01:08:20
special occasion a special week
01:08:22
obviously you know you won the World Cup
01:08:24
um but yeah must must be a weird week
01:08:27
after after you've been in that Jersey
01:08:28
for 132 times like um you spend the week
01:08:31
thinking oh this is the last time I'm
01:08:32
going to be presented this jersey um
01:08:34
this is the last time I'm going to you
01:08:37
know put the boots on yeah it must be a
01:08:39
surreal
01:08:41
week yes and no M you know
01:08:44
because we know from experiences that
01:08:47
we've seen and things that have been
01:08:49
shared with you is that if you if you
01:08:51
allow your mind to drift there um it's
01:08:54
quite dangerous
01:08:56
for what that means how you perform for
01:08:57
the team especially in big games like
01:08:59
this and so I can tell you from my point
01:09:02
of view I'm not too sure for Richie
01:09:03
can't speak for Richie but that week is
01:09:06
spent making sure it looks no different
01:09:08
to any other week you don't let your
01:09:10
mind DFT you kind of 4 to you're doing
01:09:12
your team a disservice when you're when
01:09:15
you're thinking about you as an
01:09:16
individual this is my last game is never
01:09:19
me so um doing your part for the team
01:09:22
making sure that that I'm prepared me me
01:09:25
I have to treat treat this like a how I
01:09:28
prepare for a test match which is doing
01:09:30
making sure I'm prepared when I go on I
01:09:32
can do my rooll really well time for
01:09:35
reflection that comes after we finish
01:09:37
the game yeah after we lucky enough to
01:09:38
take the cup home yeah there's time to
01:09:40
be to do that with family and friends
01:09:43
and talk about man this rad was awesome
01:09:45
we achieved this we did this we took our
01:09:48
family away and did these things but you
01:09:51
don't let it affect especially when
01:09:54
you're preparing for such a big MCH
01:09:56
it's just your mind's got to be in that
01:09:58
moment preparing
01:10:01
well yeah you guys seem to have a really
01:10:03
good relationship I was flicking through
01:10:05
his book yesterday and he he um right
01:10:08
the way through the book he only ever
01:10:09
refers to as
01:10:11
kevie which is really nice what did you
01:10:14
have a nickname for him skip skip skip
01:10:18
right that's very respectful oh yeah and
01:10:19
even even today when we still see him
01:10:21
still skip M and I think I think I think
01:10:25
that's what made him such a great
01:10:27
Captain one of the best is um just the
01:10:30
respect that he had from everyone and
01:10:33
that usually comes from the way someone
01:10:35
carries himself definitely when
01:10:38
things when there's parts to the to a
01:10:41
week where things need to be said do
01:10:43
need to say much but he'll show us every
01:10:45
time D I can tell you in our last year
01:10:48
of being all
01:10:49
blacks actually all the way through and
01:10:52
up until the last our last week of
01:10:54
training last training week he's always
01:10:56
the first one on the field you can
01:10:58
imagine what his body's been through how
01:11:00
many times he's trained what he's taken
01:11:03
his body through but he was out before
01:11:05
everyone else and his warm up Dom he'd
01:11:08
be doing like hundreds we would all be
01:11:11
like you
01:11:12
know he'd be out there running hundreds
01:11:15
like he was um running a Bronco so so he
01:11:18
always that part of it is where he he
01:11:20
really got his respect from everyone
01:11:22
just Led Led really well yeah amazing oh
01:11:27
that kind words yeah who who are you who
01:11:29
are you still like um I think maybe this
01:11:32
was in Richie's movie or Dan's movie but
01:11:34
um was one of their movies Dan was
01:11:36
talking about how he the only
01:11:39
conversations he ever had with Richie
01:11:41
were about
01:11:42
rugby um yeah were you were you the same
01:11:45
was he just like just when he's in that
01:11:47
environment is he just focused on Rugby
01:11:49
and nothing else he he a pretty focused
01:11:52
man that's why he was so successful yeah
01:11:54
right um
01:11:56
but no I
01:11:57
mean I think we I think we can build
01:12:00
some really good trust we build Next
01:12:02
Level teams is sometimes you just need
01:12:05
to go a little bit deeper
01:12:08
and doesn't mean you go too deep where
01:12:10
you can't get yourself out but you just
01:12:11
got to have conversations that mean a
01:12:12
little bit more than the game because
01:12:16
that's where you get to understand
01:12:17
people better that's where you have
01:12:19
better connection so I just think those
01:12:21
parts are really important just going a
01:12:23
little bit deeper what what are things
01:12:25
that are important to
01:12:26
you um yeah and so yeah we would have
01:12:30
those conversations outside rugby which
01:12:32
I think were really cool M and um
01:12:34
although we we had different backgrounds
01:12:36
we still still the same things meant a
01:12:38
lot to us our parents our
01:12:40
family why are we doing this what do we
01:12:43
want to leave behind so yeah yeah who
01:12:45
who was the insat that were you sort of
01:12:47
the in inator of those chats cuz I fully
01:12:48
agree with what you're saying it's it's
01:12:50
called um there's a name for it it's
01:12:51
called like a vulnerability exchange yes
01:12:54
um but someone someone in any friend
01:12:56
group has to be um the instigator the
01:12:58
person that takes the brave step and has
01:13:00
the vulnerable conversation first I feel
01:13:02
like that would be you in most
01:13:04
situations yeah I agree because I I know
01:13:06
the value of it yeah so yeah and it just
01:13:10
sometimes when you don't know people
01:13:11
well you just need something that that
01:13:13
you can be on the same line or same page
01:13:16
with so I'll definitely spend the time
01:13:18
to to go a little bit deeper just so so
01:13:22
there's a better connection there yeah
01:13:24
brilliant what what do you miss and
01:13:26
don't you miss about
01:13:28
it I sort of do miss the
01:13:31
contact oh really the physicality
01:13:34
physicality do you I don't miss the saus
01:13:35
the next
01:13:36
day but you must have been you must have
01:13:40
been in pain the next day like were
01:13:42
you're hbling around for a couple of
01:13:44
days after each game it's just you know
01:13:46
you know if you haven't done the the
01:13:47
recovery right you just it's just your
01:13:50
offset the rest of the week you know cuz
01:13:52
you're trying to get yourself ready to
01:13:53
go again and if if you haven't done that
01:13:56
well you you always end up starting the
01:13:58
week it starts later in the week you
01:14:01
know so you know as you as you get on
01:14:04
and you start knowing your body better
01:14:05
you spend a lot more time making sure
01:14:07
that it's ready to go each week but I I
01:14:11
don't know it's that why I say probably
01:14:13
why I say the contact is because that's
01:14:14
what makes contact sport rugby league
01:14:17
those really important because there's a
01:14:19
certain level of trust that you have
01:14:20
with your
01:14:22
teammates if I'm in a scrum I got two
01:14:25
props next to me and evil one Assets in
01:14:27
that scrum we're pretty much looking
01:14:28
after each other at the same time cuz if
01:14:30
someone doesn't do their
01:14:32
job that can be quite fatal so um that's
01:14:36
why that's probably the parts that I
01:14:38
think that quite that build great teams
01:14:41
and what I miss is
01:14:43
that being tight with a team going to
01:14:46
the doing whatever we needed to do to
01:14:48
make sure the team did well you know and
01:14:51
a lot of that is contact yeah a lot of
01:14:54
it for you was cont
01:14:55
yeah um you may miss at your opponents
01:14:57
sure as hell don't I um were you um were
01:15:01
you quite a social do you drink or no a
01:15:04
little bit yeah I'm not a not a massive
01:15:06
not a massive drinker but um yeah I
01:15:08
didn't I didn't drink at all when I
01:15:10
first started um when I first started my
01:15:13
career then I met my wife she's a Wine
01:15:16
Drinker Stillers and I just learned you
01:15:20
know because i' always seen one side of
01:15:21
things drinking people going off their
01:15:24
face
01:15:26
sort of looking at a different lens and
01:15:27
then I sort of realized um with my wife
01:15:30
was just you can have social drink and
01:15:33
enjoy each other's company without
01:15:35
having to go go too far go too far
01:15:37
there's definitely nights for that
01:15:39
definitely have nights for that but um
01:15:41
yeah I just I always had this perception
01:15:43
that's what it looked like is she I'm a
01:15:45
one drink to is she red or
01:15:47
white she's red right yeah oh same here
01:15:51
y oh my God it's great with food isn't
01:15:53
it so God food gr
01:15:57
companies let's talk about your wife so
01:15:59
um Ty yes yeah yeah yeah so um yeah how
01:16:03
long you guys been married like 25 years
01:16:05
uh 20 23 years 23 years yes yeah what's
01:16:10
what's what's the key to success um just
01:16:13
do as you're
01:16:15
told I think there's different there's
01:16:18
different seasons different seasons to
01:16:20
um marriage and um definitely takes a
01:16:23
lot of
01:16:25
um giving
01:16:27
and sharing and there's a lot to it D to
01:16:31
be honest um but I think that part where
01:16:35
we just we learn to adapt to each other
01:16:37
because as you get older things
01:16:39
change um but you know being able to
01:16:41
keep these connections and keep the love
01:16:44
and romance alive I think it's really
01:16:47
important hard to talk about on camera
01:16:49
but you know these when those parts when
01:16:52
you understand your partner really well
01:16:54
when you understand what makes him tick
01:16:56
then you've got to make sure you put
01:16:58
that into life as well yeah because
01:17:01
we're the we're the same but different
01:17:02
if that Mak sense some things we quite
01:17:05
similar on but then there's uh other
01:17:07
things we we see differently which is
01:17:11
great it's healthy it's healthy um yeah
01:17:15
so I think that give and takes really
01:17:17
important how you can do that and then
01:17:19
also having good mentors around you
01:17:21
seeing it been done really well my
01:17:23
parents all of that my my in-laws are
01:17:26
like that we've got friends and family
01:17:28
that are like that as well
01:17:30
so that also helps on the journey as
01:17:34
well yeah she she would have seen like
01:17:36
every s of K me ALU imaginable yeah like
01:17:40
um are you able to raise your voice like
01:17:42
do you do you ever have an argument I do
01:17:46
I I do do that and um apologies H I'm
01:17:49
sorry when I do
01:17:50
that um and you're right they see the
01:17:54
they see the the sides of us but they
01:17:55
also see when we're at our worst as well
01:17:58
and um to say that she's still here with
01:18:00
me speaks volumes absolutely but you're
01:18:04
a you're you're such a romantic aren't
01:18:06
you if you follow you on Instagram
01:18:07
you're always you're always um you
01:18:09
upping her and giving her shoutouts and
01:18:11
stuff and writing beautiful captions oh
01:18:12
she's
01:18:13
amazing I uh I've
01:18:16
caught I I don't know how to say this
01:18:18
you know if you're fishing you caught a
01:18:20
whale but I've caught the best in the
01:18:22
you don't say you caught a whale I
01:18:23
haven't caught a whale but I've caught
01:18:24
the the big fish I caught the big fish
01:18:26
yeah even that sounds offensive sorry
01:18:28
yeah I've caught the best caught the be
01:18:32
um so you guys met um I saw a photo of
01:18:35
you early in your relationship you look
01:18:36
quite small like yeah you bulked out a
01:18:39
lot later in your career so you're quite
01:18:40
young you're like
01:18:41
19 um and you're playing NPC for ockland
01:18:44
and you're down in denen and you meet
01:18:46
her at a bar yep and it's like love at
01:18:49
first sight over a crowded room or
01:18:51
pretty much just like how it happens in
01:18:53
a movie actually
01:18:55
and um she was probably one of the
01:18:57
things I remember she was wearing like a
01:18:58
leather jacket with a dragon on the
01:19:01
back and it was it was it was the last
01:19:04
it was uh the last Cy right yeah oh
01:19:07
sorry yeah and it was the last call
01:19:09
last so um yeah it's yeah definitely one
01:19:13
of those moments where just you know
01:19:16
it's a long time ago but it's Vivid it's
01:19:18
really clear and it almost looks like a
01:19:21
movie scene you know yeah and is is it
01:19:23
true that it's the same bar that that
01:19:25
where her parents met it
01:19:27
is very cool that we met at the same bar
01:19:30
that her parents met
01:19:31
at it's crazy it's crazy and she she
01:19:34
didn't she wasn't Star Strike or
01:19:36
anything she had no idea who you were
01:19:37
apparently she didn't watch rugby yeah
01:19:40
she she didn't come to a game her sister
01:19:41
did came to the game Oakland
01:19:43
oara and um but yeah she she wasn't a s
01:19:48
didn't follow rugby
01:19:50
so so must have done pretty well and
01:19:52
then how long how long were you um doing
01:19:55
the long distance thing for we did it
01:19:56
for a couple of years uh maybe for about
01:19:59
a year and a half and then yep she had
01:20:02
been having a making a few trips up
01:20:04
actually actually D this is a good story
01:20:07
actually so our met in 99 and uh at the
01:20:11
end of 99 I had a good NPC season so I
01:20:14
was sent away for the Legends um New
01:20:16
Zealand Legends and some of the guys in
01:20:18
that team were um backups for the Rugby
01:20:21
World Cup over in England and France
01:20:25
um but as I was going over in that team
01:20:28
I was the only that was the only one
01:20:29
that was um a nonprofessional everyone
01:20:31
else was semi was professional playing
01:20:33
Super Rugby so I spent quite a bit of
01:20:36
money bringing her up to
01:20:39
Oakland and um for that time for us to
01:20:42
spend together and when it was time to
01:20:44
go away on that trip I
01:20:47
um it wasn't a paid trip so we had a
01:20:51
flights in that accommodation pay for um
01:20:53
but there was you to sort of pretty much
01:20:55
take care of yourself over there and
01:20:57
we're driving to Sky City this is where
01:21:00
the team's meeting before we go and
01:21:02
there goes how much are you how much are
01:21:04
you taking over son and I just said uh
01:21:06
taking over
01:21:07
$500 for a couple of weeks New Zealand
01:21:10
to go to UK go stay in England and he
01:21:13
was he was so fired up he was like what
01:21:16
have you done with your money and I
01:21:18
couldn't say Obviously you I've been
01:21:19
flying tie up yeah um but he was so
01:21:23
Furious and I could see that I can see
01:21:25
that now as a day too it's
01:21:28
like and um
01:21:31
actually you can imagine what that would
01:21:33
have been
01:21:34
like so he was blowing me up but then I
01:21:38
got I I did get a call from him just
01:21:40
before I left and he just said you know
01:21:41
son have a safe trip we'll see you when
01:21:43
you get back but over there this and
01:21:46
this is why I always believe in looking
01:21:48
after our young place while I was over
01:21:50
there we're watching the All Blacks lose
01:21:53
to France we were watching at a
01:21:55
and I you obviously that I didn't want
01:21:57
to be in that be there for too long so I
01:21:59
caught a taxi home and that was most of
01:22:01
the money I took took over for the taxi
01:22:04
when I was looking at the um the taxi
01:22:06
CHP going up and I was
01:22:08
like so most of the actually most of
01:22:11
that trip I was on um Skin and Bones to
01:22:13
be honest and I you know you don't reach
01:22:15
out to someone and say oh can I have you
01:22:17
got a yeah can I borrow handy yeah so
01:22:21
yeah most of that that trip I was uh
01:22:23
having the
01:22:25
coffee and biscuits that they have in
01:22:27
the
01:22:28
room actually actually cuz you know
01:22:30
sometimes I go oh you guys go out and
01:22:31
find your own lunch or go and find your
01:22:33
own dinner and I was like H you just to
01:22:36
embarrassed or uh oh yeah I wasn't going
01:22:38
to ask
01:22:39
anyone both and I that's not me too you
01:22:42
know usually I try and figure it out
01:22:44
myself and um so every time we have new
01:22:48
players and a team and we're away on
01:22:50
tour I always make sure let's go out to
01:22:53
lunch I'm taking
01:22:55
which is a good team b anyway yeah
01:22:58
um but you just never know especially
01:23:01
for a young person that's coming to a
01:23:02
[Music]
01:23:04
team that um that story U seems very
01:23:07
believable cuz I heard another story
01:23:08
about you so this is early in the
01:23:09
relationship um with your wife so you
01:23:12
you'd send her from Oakland to denan
01:23:14
like a single rose every week is that
01:23:17
true or can I just ask where you got the
01:23:19
source from I can never reveal my SCE no
01:23:24
I think read online somewhere did maybe
01:23:25
it was a woman's weekly story or a
01:23:27
woman's day story quite possibly you
01:23:28
seen her a rose every week and then um
01:23:31
you were that at that time you were
01:23:33
um uh I think you were living you're
01:23:35
living in South maybe you're working in
01:23:38
pepo or somewhere and you have to like
01:23:41
walk the nine the8 or nine kilometers to
01:23:43
work um because you had no money to pay
01:23:45
for you taxes or petrol or anything
01:23:47
because you spent all your money on
01:23:47
roses and uh I used to have a 10p speed
01:23:50
you know those bikes that used to have
01:23:52
tread like that and always always always
01:23:55
flat tire spend most of my time walking
01:23:57
the bike home but um you know it's I
01:24:01
probably when I look back at it now
01:24:02
those are the Investments I've invested
01:24:05
in into our relationship and um yeah
01:24:09
that's true that's so romantic oh thank
01:24:12
you yeah it's probably what we should be
01:24:14
doing right yeah and I probably need to
01:24:16
do more of it now when I think about it
01:24:18
now D actually as life's gotten on
01:24:21
thanks for reminding me it's probably
01:24:23
something I need to do more of now yeah
01:24:25
no worries um man this is a great chat
01:24:27
you're such a good dude um one thing uh
01:24:31
I've realized I'm 51 now you're what 45
01:24:34
yes yeah no one gets to the privilege of
01:24:37
making it to our age in life um without
01:24:39
going through some you know some sort of
01:24:40
tough times or adversity yes so um
01:24:43
what's it been for you what's some of
01:24:44
the what's some of the biggest
01:24:45
challenges you've gone
01:24:46
through um I think I mentioned a couple
01:24:49
in there uh you know which is just
01:24:51
around having to provide for family
01:24:56
um and you know possibly some of the
01:24:59
career career stuff is tough when you
01:25:01
think about it but then everything in
01:25:03
perspective um sometimes not as big as
01:25:07
what you think
01:25:08
he yeah at at the time it seems at the
01:25:10
time it seems big you look back and you
01:25:12
look back and go man why did I let that
01:25:14
Hound me um suppose especially um in a a
01:25:18
job like if you if you're lucky enough
01:25:19
to make the or and you're playing for
01:25:21
the country and you know there's so much
01:25:23
of a public buying so it must just at
01:25:25
times must feel like the whole world's
01:25:27
against you yeah I
01:25:31
think
01:25:33
probably probably and it's it's not just
01:25:36
like one event it's just that constant
01:25:38
am I doing enough so am I doing enough
01:25:42
to make sure my family all right I'm I'm
01:25:45
okay I love and know I was talking to a
01:25:48
good friend this morning just around you
01:25:50
know we love doing things for other
01:25:51
people and brothers big on making making
01:25:54
sure um you got to do some selfcare so
01:25:57
maybe it's maybe it's not the one event
01:26:00
but it's the constantly asking myself am
01:26:02
I doing enough am I doing enough as
01:26:04
hubby am I doing enough as Dad am I
01:26:07
doing enough for
01:26:10
others I'm constantly asking that so
01:26:12
there's this I don't know if it's
01:26:14
comparison but I'm always am I doing
01:26:16
enough asking the question yeah are you
01:26:19
good are you good at like prioritizing
01:26:20
yourself sometimes as
01:26:22
well I would say yes but I think other
01:26:24
people might say
01:26:26
no um but but but it makes me feel good
01:26:29
yeah yeah it makes me feel good FS my
01:26:31
cup when I see someone walking away
01:26:34
happy um some people say to me you know
01:26:36
do you ever get sick of taking photos or
01:26:39
signing something for
01:26:41
someone if you know the joy that people
01:26:43
get when they walk away man I would
01:26:46
never get tired of that it should never
01:26:47
make
01:26:48
you pissed off or angry when someone
01:26:51
comes and asks us for a photo that's a
01:26:54
privilege right it's a privilege isn't
01:26:55
it you must get it a bit too right in
01:26:58
all honesty similar amount to you kie no
01:27:01
no and know it is it's it's humbling
01:27:03
like if someone comes up to me when I'm
01:27:04
in a coffee store and says they they
01:27:06
like the podcast or they comment on bit
01:27:07
different things it's um it's an
01:27:08
absolute honor I am I'm completely
01:27:11
humbled by it yeah it's cool I see i'
01:27:14
see it the same way too yeah Dom so it's
01:27:16
it's a privilege that we have right
01:27:18
absolutely does what about your mental
01:27:19
health has your mental health been good
01:27:21
over the
01:27:23
years uh um I'm still here and I
01:27:28
think I've had challenging moments and
01:27:31
uh if there was one thing I love to
01:27:34
share is just being able to have you
01:27:35
know we talked about what does your
01:27:37
support look like family's been huge on
01:27:39
that I think you know if all of us that
01:27:43
have gone through Co have gone through
01:27:44
things looked at things differently when
01:27:46
you've had time to spend more time by
01:27:48
yourself often start thinking a lot more
01:27:51
than you should or have to so so I just
01:27:55
think I've been lucky enough to have
01:27:56
great people whether that be my direct
01:27:59
family or you know or even just you know
01:28:01
having a brother that I can just talk to
01:28:04
about anything I just I know now how
01:28:07
important that is having someone that
01:28:08
you can have
01:28:10
that have those conversations with you
01:28:12
know have you always been good with that
01:28:14
with the the vulnerable conversations
01:28:15
the tough conversations I don't think so
01:28:19
um but but I know how necessary it is so
01:28:24
um it's funny you'll encourage it of
01:28:27
other people but won't do it yourself
01:28:29
you know yeah if that makes sense you
01:28:31
know it's right but it's hard it's
01:28:33
really hard that's it it's difficult
01:28:35
especially like you said when people see
01:28:37
you a certain way yeah um and I'm not
01:28:39
saying I'm perfect but you know if
01:28:42
people say you're a good person you do
01:28:43
all these good things doesn't mean
01:28:45
perfect still so many things in life to
01:28:48
work on so I'm not that I have bad days
01:28:54
and it might not be bad to you but when
01:28:55
you when I look at it myself I'm just
01:28:56
like oh a bad day on the K mearm is
01:29:00
perfection for most other people but
01:29:02
that's what I mean you know like we will
01:29:04
look at it through different lenses but
01:29:06
for me might be might feel like the
01:29:08
world's falling down you know yeah just
01:29:11
cuz you haven't met your own personal
01:29:12
standards yeah um and what's your inner
01:29:15
voice like are you are you mostly quite
01:29:17
kind to yourself um are you quite hard
01:29:19
on
01:29:21
yourself I think I've learned to be kind
01:29:23
of myself M cuz I know that's
01:29:27
um that's what allows me to be that's
01:29:30
what allows me to be who I am if that
01:29:32
makes sense if I want to project that
01:29:35
then I've got to know how to do that for
01:29:37
myself yeah yeah cuz it seems like you
01:29:39
got very you've got very high
01:29:40
expectations for yourself you yeah
01:29:43
really like just and impossibly high
01:29:46
standards which is a which is a a good
01:29:48
thing but as long as you um yeah as as
01:29:51
long as you're in a voice is good I know
01:29:53
like I'm I'm think of some like high
01:29:55
performance I've had on the the podcast
01:29:56
including like d m Lisa Carrington Mee K
01:29:59
the cricker and Michaela blide um and
01:30:02
they all struggle with it like you know
01:30:04
the way they speak to themselves
01:30:05
internally yes yeah yeah I think there
01:30:07
some days like at the moment you know
01:30:09
how I was just saying like I'm on this
01:30:12
med I'm on medication at the moment I
01:30:13
can't train the way I I like to I look
01:30:16
at myself in the mirror and go that's
01:30:17
not the person I want to be and like you
01:30:19
might look at me and go no you look fine
01:30:21
you just look the same
01:30:24
in my head I'm just like man I feel I
01:30:27
don't feel the
01:30:28
way it's not making me feel the way I
01:30:30
want to feel you know so we still have
01:30:33
these conversations in in the head um
01:30:36
but yeah K's going to be okay we'll just
01:30:39
slowly build this we can slowly start
01:30:42
doing some things to make sure it
01:30:43
happens so yeah well thanks for sharing
01:30:45
that thank you um what about Legacy how
01:30:48
would you like how like how how would
01:30:49
you like people to remember
01:30:52
you uh
01:30:54
um someone who
01:30:57
was
01:30:58
thoughtful um
01:31:01
genuine
01:31:04
generous um I think those probably some
01:31:08
of the words are just they just came
01:31:09
straight to
01:31:11
mine um kind everyone says kind
01:31:15
yep and I you know I spoke with someone
01:31:18
yesterday they said you know some people
01:31:20
hate Co
01:31:22
people who well
01:31:24
does doesn't bother me you know like you
01:31:26
do you I'll do me
01:31:28
yeah K this has been great thank you so
01:31:32
much I appreciate thank you like I said
01:31:34
before thank you for your time thank you
01:31:35
for the opportunity it's awesome no man
01:31:38
it's been an honor to sit with you and
01:31:40
um I everyone I reached out to you to um
01:31:43
that you know through your playing
01:31:44
career that had words to say about you
01:31:47
um I can't do anything except Echo what
01:31:49
they all said like you are just one of a
01:31:51
kind um yeah just being around you you
01:31:54
you want to be more like K Mamu which I
01:31:57
think that's a really cool thing I think
01:31:59
you're a pretty um pretty awesome person
01:32:01
as well
01:32:04
d k me L thanks so much thank you