00:00:00
hello and thank you for watching my
00:00:01
podcast this episode is sponsored by
00:00:04
beter beter is New Zealand's newest
00:00:07
sports Bing app that is made for kiwis
00:00:09
my favorite feature of the app is a
00:00:11
thing called bet social that lets you
00:00:12
chat with your mates and pull your money
00:00:14
together in a pot so you can bet as a
00:00:15
group it's perfect if you're like me and
00:00:18
you don't really know what you're going
00:00:19
to bet on but your friends have got a
00:00:21
better idea beer is giving you up to $50
00:00:25
in bonus cash if you sign up today with
00:00:26
their deposit match offer teas and C
00:00:29
Supply download the app and bet it out
00:00:32
r18 bet responsibly okay Justin Marshall
00:00:36
on the domh
00:00:43
podcast Justin Marshall welcome to my
00:00:45
podcast thanks Dom uh for having me I've
00:00:48
heard great things and it's very nice to
00:00:50
be invited to to come on and have a a
00:00:52
chat with you and I've even been given a
00:00:54
cold beer so you've got me super chilled
00:00:56
and relaxed and I'm looking forward to
00:00:58
um a bit of ban well yeah we were
00:01:00
texting backwards and forwards I said
00:01:02
what what do you want to drink you want
00:01:03
some beer or coffee whatever you said oh
00:01:05
it's Friday afternoon let's go for some
00:01:06
beers then I um I got a I uh messaged um
00:01:11
Cali just to see if he had any stories
00:01:12
to bring up with you and then suddenly I
00:01:14
thought maybe the beers are a bad idea
00:01:16
he said um what can I tell you about
00:01:17
Justin loves
00:01:19
touring he did Tun Up Late for his New
00:01:21
Zealand Golf Open tea time once John
00:01:24
Hart not happy we didn't get invited
00:01:26
back from hary I'm sure if that's the
00:01:28
reason or we got on the piss too much
00:01:29
that's not my fault though that is
00:01:32
correct but uh I don't think that had
00:01:34
any influence on Kelly not getting
00:01:36
invited back um well that's good he he
00:01:39
actually was very reserved because
00:01:41
usually he'll take the puss out of me
00:01:43
for the fact that he always beats me at
00:01:45
golf and so he should for a guy that
00:01:47
plays four times a week um my God he
00:01:50
loves it doesn't he he does so yeah no
00:01:52
there's no reason why he wouldn't um do
00:01:54
well out of getting a sort of part-timer
00:01:56
like me and ambushing me every time um
00:01:59
the thing I found interesting about that
00:02:00
text is
00:02:01
um um so you put a book out about 20
00:02:04
years ago I had to look around some
00:02:06
secondhand book shops this week to try
00:02:07
and find it and I couldn't but um the
00:02:09
reviews I read about it um apparently
00:02:11
you go to town on on John Hart in it
00:02:14
yeah look I was honest about um the way
00:02:17
that I felt uh things transpired
00:02:19
particular particularly in 1999 uh and
00:02:22
we we had a couple of Runnings Hardy and
00:02:24
I and we still have since the golf the
00:02:27
golf is a classic example you know and
00:02:30
um you know that that's just I I think
00:02:32
the the nature of the beast when you're
00:02:35
when you're in a all black side and
00:02:37
you're one of the in the leadership
00:02:38
group and you know you feel strongly uh
00:02:41
and have a strong opinion you know you
00:02:43
should be able to give that opinion um
00:02:46
so yeah look I I quite openly um felt
00:02:49
that the decision to drop me in 99 was a
00:02:51
really bizarre one uh you know like at
00:02:54
the end of the day since he had been all
00:02:56
black coach he had picked me for every
00:02:57
single test match bar injury all the way
00:02:59
through through um his Co his his
00:03:01
coaching regime and the one time he
00:03:04
decides to bench me is a semi-final of
00:03:06
the Rugby World Cup and I kind of just
00:03:09
pleaded my case with them I said I don't
00:03:10
think you're making the right decision
00:03:11
and I'm not being selfish in this but I
00:03:14
know that I can deliver what you need me
00:03:16
to deliver and you need to trust me
00:03:17
because I've been with you for four
00:03:19
years and we've been through some
00:03:21
adversity and we've won some test
00:03:23
matches that we shouldn't have won and
00:03:24
I've been part of that and this is no
00:03:26
different and I feel that if you are
00:03:29
getting something out of Barron ker
00:03:30
that's um you know something that the
00:03:33
team can benefit from then bring them on
00:03:34
early you know bring them on earlier
00:03:36
than the last 20 minutes so yeah all
00:03:38
those sorts of things came into into the
00:03:40
equation and uh obviously I had that big
00:03:42
balls up do you remember that down in um
00:03:45
denen oh I I did not remember that but
00:03:48
it's um in my notes where you had to you
00:03:49
had to go on the home show and make a
00:03:51
public apology yes I did I so you you
00:03:54
were sent off and you were caught on
00:03:55
Mike saying this is [ __ ] [ __ ] is
00:03:59
what I said right really loudly like
00:04:01
that and uh the the the the microphone
00:04:04
was right
00:04:05
there um but but I was fuming because
00:04:07
I'd been I'd been hit hard but I was
00:04:10
okay and and I remember the physio
00:04:12
coming on and saying um we feel you're
00:04:14
not right and I said I'm I'm right don't
00:04:16
wor this is this is before um the hiia
00:04:19
thing yes yeah yeah but they thought you
00:04:21
were concussed or they yeah they thought
00:04:23
that I was carrying a bit of concussion
00:04:25
yeah and um and that equally um that I
00:04:28
had a limp because I'd been like I said
00:04:30
I've been hit pretty hard but I said I'm
00:04:32
fine I've worked my way through it I'm
00:04:34
good to go don't worry I've got this and
00:04:36
um the phys came back on and said no I
00:04:37
think he's going to bring me off I said
00:04:39
don't bring me off do not bring me off I
00:04:42
said I've got control of this and and
00:04:45
you know let's talk about it later on in
00:04:48
the Test match whatever but right now no
00:04:50
I'm I'm in this test match and I'm here
00:04:52
to win and they bought me off yeah and I
00:04:55
didn't want to didn't want to go and I
00:04:56
was like a a kid that had had their
00:04:58
Lolly stolen um my my lip went down my
00:05:01
head went down my shaking my head I
00:05:04
don't know how many like shakes of my
00:05:06
head I did maybe 50 of them as I was
00:05:08
making my way off I glared up at John
00:05:11
Harton stand gave him a big steer uh and
00:05:14
then foolishly you know and then I said
00:05:17
what I said uh which the whole country
00:05:19
hood and and then this I really regret
00:05:23
and then I walked up the tunnel and and
00:05:25
out of the game whereas I should have
00:05:27
gone to the the bench and with the rest
00:05:30
of the reserves but I was just obviously
00:05:33
by what I said which got me in the in
00:05:35
trouble yeah how did it end up that you
00:05:37
had to go on a like a 700 p.m. current
00:05:39
affairs show and this is when TV was was
00:05:42
was big like if you ended up on the home
00:05:43
show You' done something pretty [ __ ]
00:05:46
bad yes how like how did it end up
00:05:48
coming to that it seems outrageous under
00:05:49
today's lens it does but obviously it
00:05:52
was um because it
00:05:54
was prime time you know we are we are
00:05:57
the All Blacks there's millions of um
00:06:00
people tuning in and equally lots of
00:06:02
kids that are hearing that type of
00:06:04
language it was just the pr machine
00:06:07
which you know wants to make sure that
00:06:08
the All Blacks um you know look
00:06:10
respectful look clean and uh and and
00:06:13
don't take the game Into The Gutter and
00:06:14
obviously that type of language when
00:06:17
it's heard across the country um they
00:06:21
felt that I needed to kind of make it
00:06:24
better basically I couldn't believe it
00:06:26
when they rang me though they were like
00:06:28
um we we we've looked at this and we um
00:06:31
Paul Holmes has said that he will quite
00:06:34
happily have you on the
00:06:35
show uh and you need to go on and
00:06:38
apologize I was just like oh for [ __ ]
00:06:40
sake really um but I I had to do it you
00:06:43
know um so yeah look and I'll tell you
00:06:47
in that changing room afterwards not
00:06:49
many people will know this but um John
00:06:53
Hart came in and I remember sitting in
00:06:55
my seat and GE he he tore shreds off me
00:06:59
m
00:07:01
disrespect a decision that I make and
00:07:04
like that ever again um you've
00:07:07
embarrassed yourself you've embarrassed
00:07:09
the team and this was front of the whole
00:07:10
team I looked around the changing room
00:07:11
everyone's heads were down and it was
00:07:13
really like one of those real awkward
00:07:16
situations humiliating yeah yeah very
00:07:18
humiliating um but obviously I deserved
00:07:21
it because it wasn't it wasn't part of
00:07:24
what the the culture we had and it
00:07:26
wasn't part of I I guess the team
00:07:29
environment to be an individual like
00:07:32
that um and I needed to learn that and I
00:07:34
needed to I had to go through that quite
00:07:36
a bit and grow up and and and and
00:07:38
recognize that but I I felt that that
00:07:41
wasn't the time and place I felt that he
00:07:44
needed to probably pull me aside and he
00:07:46
can shout and scream as much as he wants
00:07:48
when we're one-on-one um but doing it in
00:07:51
front of the whole team he he was
00:07:52
sending a message for sure yeah that's
00:07:54
humiliating though right yeah a little
00:07:56
bit Yeah D little bit but I learned but
00:07:59
I did learn you know like um I still
00:08:02
didn't enjoy getting substituted any
00:08:03
time I got sub from that dismatch
00:08:05
onwards but I refrained from swearing
00:08:07
about it and um I I did not ever go back
00:08:10
up the tunnel um apart from obviously
00:08:14
many people have seen this clip when I
00:08:16
basically sent myself off cuz uh I was
00:08:19
playing for the Crusaders against the
00:08:21
brumbies and um anyway the story is we
00:08:25
we were looking to score with a rolling
00:08:27
moall and um you know we were pressing
00:08:30
pressing the moall was moving forward
00:08:32
and the referee at the time Andre Watson
00:08:34
was um saying scrummy scrummy release it
00:08:37
release it 5 seconds and I was going
00:08:39
Andre it's still moving forward it's
00:08:40
still moving forward and he's going no
00:08:42
Lisa I said it's still moving forward
00:08:43
and then he blew his whistle and um said
00:08:46
turnover you didn't release the ball and
00:08:49
so again I um let out some pretty fullon
00:08:53
language towards him um
00:08:56
and basically I'm seeing a pattern here
00:08:58
I know I know and um just gave him a
00:09:00
real spray real spray and I said yeah
00:09:03
you know that's just just we were still
00:09:05
moving forward you've cost us the game
00:09:08
with this decision you've made and there
00:09:10
was a bit of swearing in amongst it too
00:09:12
and um he he so he he stepped away and
00:09:18
um he said come here like that and as I
00:09:21
was walking towards him I saw him going
00:09:23
towards his pocket and so I thought he's
00:09:25
putting me in the bin he's sending me
00:09:27
off so I just looked at him and I went
00:09:29
off [ __ ] like that and said don't worry
00:09:31
about it I've had enough anyway and just
00:09:33
started walking off so I'm walking my
00:09:36
way towards the
00:09:37
tunnel and uh I I've made about 10 15
00:09:41
paces and then I hear um George grean go
00:09:44
marshy Mary where you going mate cuz he
00:09:46
was the opposition half back and then I
00:09:48
heard Todd black at Mary come back come
00:09:52
back mate so I sort of you see me turn
00:09:55
and I look and I go back and basically I
00:09:58
won I called his blood
00:10:00
he just told me that um you know told me
00:10:02
off can't speak to me like that blah
00:10:04
blah blah but I stayed on the field so
00:10:06
it's like a game of poker it was it was
00:10:09
so yeah those are the two two instances
00:10:11
where I probably um have
00:10:14
let the the occasion and the
00:10:17
significance of of both of those were
00:10:20
were completely different one's in the
00:10:21
all black test match other one were're
00:10:22
trying to win a game for the Crusaders
00:10:24
against very good brumus team I've let
00:10:26
that uh control my emotions and and I've
00:10:29
gone into the red big time so yeah yeah
00:10:33
is it um in but have you mellowed with
00:10:36
age yeah I have yeah yeah I I've
00:10:40
certainly again you learn from those
00:10:43
mistakes uh and and when they're very
00:10:45
public you know everybody makes their
00:10:48
stuff UPS during life and and and and
00:10:51
it's regular but you don't have to deal
00:10:53
with it publicly when you have to deal
00:10:54
with it P publicly and it affects
00:10:57
others um you know then I'm talking
00:11:00
family you know like then that has an
00:11:02
effect on everyone you know Mom and Dad
00:11:04
wife kids all of that they wear it um
00:11:08
and then that that you know that Snap-on
00:11:10
effect is them suffering as well I I
00:11:13
don't know where this quote came from
00:11:14
but I I saw a quote from um your your
00:11:16
wife Nicole um Justin is an exclamation
00:11:19
mark not a comma which is a great line
00:11:22
bang yeah isn't it I wonder where she
00:11:24
found that very clever actually it is
00:11:27
it's a genius I wish I could claim it
00:11:28
but I can't it's a genius were you like
00:11:31
in reflection were you
00:11:33
um I there's there's a reality show
00:11:36
called below deck and I had this one of
00:11:37
the Stars show on the podcast called
00:11:38
Asia Scott and she's been accused online
00:11:40
of being um uh of a thing called toxic
00:11:43
positivity and I I wonder with you like
00:11:45
were you toxically competitive is that
00:11:49
is that a thing that's a good way to
00:11:50
phrase it or was it was it was it more
00:11:52
just like a temper or an anger thing no
00:11:54
it was it was just over overco
00:11:56
competitive you know I I didn't want to
00:11:58
not be out there I didn't not I I didn't
00:12:01
want to have a situation where I can't
00:12:04
control and and that was hard for me to
00:12:07
to get my head around you know I started
00:12:09
in the day of am amateur rugby so like
00:12:13
you literally didn't get taken off the
00:12:15
field unless your leg or arm or shoulder
00:12:17
or whatever was hanging off substitutes
00:12:20
were made for people that were injured
00:12:22
even had like testicles hanging out
00:12:24
exactly exactly and still didn't go off
00:12:28
so um I'm more of a crybaby Dawn than
00:12:30
that I would have been off the field but
00:12:33
they were there to replace injured
00:12:35
players they were not impact players you
00:12:36
know that go on and are strategically
00:12:39
put into the game like they are now so I
00:12:42
growing up with that it was really hard
00:12:44
for me to be playing well you know
00:12:47
particularly when you're playing well
00:12:48
and you're in the top of your game to
00:12:51
then be taken off because a lot of rugby
00:12:54
and sport in general gets decided in
00:12:56
those micro minutes you know that's
00:12:58
that's where you know a lot a lot of the
00:13:01
the the pressure and the the ability to
00:13:04
to thrive and to to prosper when the
00:13:06
game is on the line and experience comes
00:13:09
into it that that's where a lot of big
00:13:11
games are won and then you know for it
00:13:13
to for you to be taken out of the the
00:13:15
mix and you know that you can help the
00:13:18
situation was really hard for me to
00:13:20
process um but yeah and that was just my
00:13:23
competitiveness of wanting wanting to be
00:13:25
able to do it myself because I knew I
00:13:28
could and then when they when they when
00:13:30
they take it off me they're taking away
00:13:32
my mojo and I'm just like you know it's
00:13:35
not
00:13:35
fair I can do this you know um so yeah
00:13:39
it's more my my competitiveness look I'm
00:13:42
I'm not saying that I didn't um you know
00:13:44
get angry at times and I did and I got
00:13:46
into my fair share of fights as a
00:13:48
youngster um which again I had to learn
00:13:51
from and and it was it was good there
00:13:53
were good life lessons in there um and
00:13:56
and equally um was involved in the old
00:13:58
punch up on the rugby too in fact I've
00:14:00
got one of these um you did find the
00:14:02
book oh know this is Richie's book oh is
00:14:05
it but there's
00:14:06
uh there you yeah jeez jeez yeah you're
00:14:11
punching above your weight there yeah I
00:14:13
know I am punching above my weight but
00:14:15
obviously I always do it when I got
00:14:16
support you can see I've got more I've
00:14:19
got two other players around me and he's
00:14:21
got no one and I'm like yeah well you
00:14:23
want to pick on me now mate eh um but
00:14:25
yeah no look Carlos and I had like Ali
00:14:29
every now and then he would rub me the
00:14:30
wrong way but Carlos and I you know
00:14:32
Crusaders Blues we had some ding-dongs
00:14:34
too if you could drag up you know a
00:14:38
couple of handfuls of photos of him and
00:14:39
I at each other's throat um but but the
00:14:42
weird thing is then mate um we're
00:14:45
rooming together so we're at each other
00:14:48
for for crusaders blues and then they
00:14:51
always kind of room you in your sort of
00:14:53
zones so 9 and 10 get gets roomed got
00:14:56
roomed together a lot and I remember
00:14:58
having this this real set to with Carlos
00:15:01
when we when we were playing and it was
00:15:02
at Eden Park and um I got asked by
00:15:06
Robbie Deans to to pick on him
00:15:08
defensively cuz he he was really good at
00:15:11
going across the back of the rock really
00:15:12
deep anyway won't get too technical but
00:15:15
he said when he does that I want you
00:15:16
following him and Ming him and every
00:15:17
time he does if he picks out one of our
00:15:20
forwards and puts some footwork or
00:15:22
whatever in it in them and makes a line
00:15:24
break you clean them up and this
00:15:25
happened in the game I cleaned them up a
00:15:27
couple of times and um and I said to him
00:15:29
uh I'll be here all day callus I said
00:15:32
you your footwork might work on them but
00:15:34
it won't on me and I said you'll get
00:15:35
tackled and we'll probably turn you over
00:15:38
uh I said all that all that fancy sidest
00:15:40
stepping and all that and um just won't
00:15:42
come to anything cuz I'm just going to
00:15:43
cut you down he said at least I got a
00:15:44
sidestep
00:15:45
mushy I was like oh [ __ ] okay right um
00:15:49
so we we have this full- on Battle and
00:15:51
it rages and rages and then the next
00:15:53
thing I'm doing is walking into a hotel
00:15:54
in
00:15:55
Wellington um and Carlos spencec is my
00:15:58
roomate
00:15:59
and he's I'm like where is he and he's
00:16:01
he's he's actually in the
00:16:02
[Laughter]
00:16:04
bath well how to how to meet a man in a
00:16:07
more vulnerable position I know I know
00:16:09
well you know he's obviously he was Mr
00:16:10
toffee pot wasn't he so he's dered
00:16:13
himself probably
00:16:15
sprinkled sprinkled some roses around
00:16:18
scented bit bit like your scented candle
00:16:19
here scented candles going and I'm
00:16:21
thinking yeah my roommate's having a
00:16:24
bath and um soak soaking himself is is
00:16:27
is that awkward um or is it straight
00:16:30
away is it like it's a different team
00:16:32
what goes on the field yeah it is and
00:16:34
everybody um have their indiv individual
00:16:37
idiosyncrasies don't they so that's fine
00:16:39
you let people be who they are and like
00:16:41
Carlos to be fair um is an awesome
00:16:44
athlete man and uh he he he looks after
00:16:47
he looked after himself like he was very
00:16:49
body not when I say body conscious I
00:16:51
don't mean as in you know vain he was
00:16:54
very much this is my this is my tool you
00:16:57
know so he's always very good in the gym
00:17:00
um always looked after himself nutrition
00:17:02
wise like I'd get up and I'd have um
00:17:04
some
00:17:05
toast and um maybe a cup of coffee
00:17:09
whatever you know he he was full on with
00:17:11
his shakes and protein and all that
00:17:13
creatine whatever it might be I I was
00:17:15
old school I didn't get into that but
00:17:18
yeah you just allow people to be what
00:17:19
they are but um now in terms of any of
00:17:21
that other stuff like if if I was to
00:17:23
have walked in and I it's not a problem
00:17:24
Dom because people out there don't know
00:17:27
changing rooms in rugby they're just
00:17:29
full of nakedness I mean so the weirdest
00:17:32
one is Twickenham that is bizarre
00:17:35
because they've got at the twickum
00:17:37
changing rooms it's the only changing
00:17:38
room in the world where they have
00:17:41
baths so after the game car would have
00:17:43
been in his exactly Carlos commanded the
00:17:47
area but you go in there and you you
00:17:49
know just have a quick shower and then
00:17:50
there's like they the when the game's
00:17:52
been played the um your baggage man or
00:17:55
whatever will go fill all the the bars
00:17:58
up so you got nice hot bars and there's
00:17:59
about six of them and um you're sort of
00:18:01
sitting in this big area underneath the
00:18:04
stands at Twickenham in your changing
00:18:05
room having a bath and so a bath but not
00:18:08
like a cold plunge like a bath no no no
00:18:09
no a bath bath yeah yeah so that's so
00:18:12
English yeah I know so it's quite weird
00:18:14
though because like to be fair you know
00:18:17
you most people have b a bath and
00:18:19
privacy don't they yeah it's a it's a
00:18:22
very yeah it's a very vulnerable thing
00:18:24
it is yeah but all of a sudden you're
00:18:25
kind of sitting next to you
00:18:27
know teammates and there's six of you
00:18:30
there and you're all having turn having
00:18:31
a turn to have a hot bath usually
00:18:33
sucking on a beer as well but yeah it's
00:18:36
very it's it's perceived to be normal
00:18:39
but when you think about it it doesn't
00:18:40
sound normal does it imagine walking
00:18:42
into that as a as a civilian who just
00:18:44
goes look at these BLS what are you
00:18:46
doing um and is is everyone naked or are
00:18:48
there some undy people no there's not
00:18:50
there's really undy people yeah no it's
00:18:52
um it's nakedness but hey if you're in
00:18:56
the bath you're in the bath you're
00:18:58
you're not in the Po and your Speedos I
00:19:00
can't believe this we've gone um 20
00:19:02
minutes and you you've shared some um
00:19:04
like really like embarrassing parts of
00:19:06
your past without uh me even having to
00:19:09
butter you up for the information um I
00:19:11
didn't even get get to do like a good
00:19:12
intro for you like um it was an
00:19:15
incredible [ __ ] career right and I
00:19:18
think one like okay so over 100 games
00:19:20
for the Crusaders five titles um second
00:19:23
induct D into the Crusaders Hall of Fame
00:19:25
who was number
00:19:26
one uh to Black to Black um 81 test uh
00:19:30
four is captain Oh but you you lost the
00:19:32
captain after you had an argument with a
00:19:34
re oh [ __ ] I did to how did you know
00:19:37
that I met online people were going to
00:19:39
listen to this and they go [ __ ] did this
00:19:41
guy actually learn or not he's saying he
00:19:43
learned but continually we're hearing uh
00:19:47
eras uh of him getting in trouble with
00:19:50
referees or coaches or whatever where he
00:19:53
was perceivably um learning but didn't
00:19:55
yeah this was 25 years ago though it's
00:19:57
you know thanks mate half a life ago um
00:20:01
well I didn't lose the captaincy because
00:20:03
of that to be fair to stick up for
00:20:05
myself I I um I was a caretaker Captain
00:20:08
for sha Fitzpatrick um he was on the
00:20:11
tour but he just couldn't he just could
00:20:13
not get on the field as much as he tried
00:20:15
poor odd Fitzy his knee was absolutely
00:20:17
rooted so um and and it ended his career
00:20:20
he didn't play after that um but I I I
00:20:23
got the opportunity to Captain and there
00:20:25
were very there were very much more
00:20:27
senior players in that side um that
00:20:29
could have captained the team at that
00:20:31
stage but um this was a sort of a look
00:20:33
towards the future to see what type of
00:20:35
Captain I would be and obviously we
00:20:36
found out but but I didn't lose a test
00:20:38
match um and and and um you know we we
00:20:42
we were successful against Wales
00:20:44
Island um and uh we played England twice
00:20:48
in in that um particular four November
00:20:52
test matches one at Old Trafford and the
00:20:54
second one yeah it um it tooken them
00:20:57
yeah it was was it was a tough we we we
00:20:59
played [ __ ] to be fair and the fact that
00:21:02
after 80 minutes in that test match we
00:21:03
got this is 1997 if people don't
00:21:05
remember that we got away with a draw is
00:21:08
a miracle in itself England were a b
00:21:10
side on the day but this is what good
00:21:13
all black teams or good sporting teams
00:21:15
can do do you still think about these
00:21:17
things now yeah yeah I do yeah so so so
00:21:20
the we're recording this um I'm not sure
00:21:23
when the podcast is going to come out
00:21:24
but we're recording this in between the
00:21:25
two all black test versus Argentina so
00:21:28
they've lost one who knows what's going
00:21:29
to happen tomorrow night so the guys
00:21:31
that were playing last weekend they'll
00:21:32
they'll still be thinking about this 20
00:21:34
years from now potentially yes they will
00:21:35
be yeah and and you think about th that
00:21:38
those off days and those performances
00:21:41
that you're not uh you're not
00:21:43
comfortable as as as a team and equally
00:21:45
as
00:21:46
individuals that are damaging to our
00:21:48
history and and that was damaging last
00:21:51
weekend and and and to be fair you know
00:21:54
I I wasn't entirely comfortable with the
00:21:56
messaging I I didn't like the mess last
00:21:59
week from a lot of what the some of the
00:22:00
senior players were saying which was
00:22:03
things along the lines of oh well that's
00:22:04
a good thing about rugby we get to play
00:22:06
next weekend and put things right I'm
00:22:08
like no you don't you you've already
00:22:12
you've already damaged our history
00:22:14
forever you cannot change that by going
00:22:16
out and win winning by 50 points next
00:22:17
week that's not relevant Argentina has
00:22:21
have done something that only two teams
00:22:23
before them have ever done historically
00:22:25
against the All Blacks in all of our
00:22:26
history they've beaten us and not only
00:22:29
that they've beaten us at home you can't
00:22:32
you can't go out next week and say oh
00:22:34
everything's okay now it's impossible so
00:22:37
yeah I feel that that's that that to me
00:22:39
was um a bit worrying that that was
00:22:41
messaging like the messaging I would
00:22:43
have wanted to hear was about the hurt
00:22:46
and the disappointment and the fact that
00:22:48
you can't change this result and um you
00:22:51
know you still got to keep your head up
00:22:52
but I would have liked to have not heard
00:22:54
the these will'll put it right next week
00:22:56
because you can't and uh yeah they they
00:22:59
they will remember that that you can't
00:23:00
you can't that that never leaves you
00:23:02
like I lost two Rugby World Cup
00:23:04
semi-finals and uh I'm reminded of it
00:23:07
quite
00:23:08
frequently I can't get it back oh lots
00:23:12
of me of the lots of guys I've played
00:23:14
against no the public are pretty good
00:23:16
the public are actually pretty good and
00:23:18
um yeah but in general you know like
00:23:20
that that's that's two massive
00:23:22
opportunities um in my life that I can't
00:23:25
can't get back and and again that you
00:23:27
know when I go on podcasts with well
00:23:30
podcasts or TV shows or do interviews
00:23:34
with other players do corporate work and
00:23:35
we're on the stage a lot of the guys
00:23:37
that I played against through that
00:23:39
decade get introduced as World Cup
00:23:40
winners but I don't and then they take
00:23:43
the piss out of me for losing two
00:23:44
semi-finals so yeah those players will
00:23:47
remember that and um you know I remember
00:23:50
that that test match you alluded to very
00:23:51
well and uh yeah I did I got marched 30
00:23:55
m by the referee but it's weird because
00:23:58
what people see they can't hear so what
00:24:01
they it looks like I'm doing is arguing
00:24:03
with the Riff you know because he's made
00:24:06
a couple of shitty decisions against us
00:24:08
which he had done Jim Fleming it was and
00:24:11
um my Ford pack are getting annoyed and
00:24:14
they they've come to me as Captain and
00:24:16
said I tell you what they he is not
00:24:17
refereeing that breakdown fairly if he
00:24:20
doesn't start to referee it in the way
00:24:22
that he should and stop them from being
00:24:23
illegal and slowing our ball down then
00:24:26
we'll do that uh we'll do that en
00:24:28
forcing ourselves and it'll get messy so
00:24:31
I just went and told him that I said
00:24:33
mate you need to look at that breakdown
00:24:35
better my forward pack is not happy and
00:24:37
if you don't start doing your job
00:24:38
properly then they're going to take this
00:24:41
into their own hands and then it's going
00:24:43
to really disintegrate bang pinged me 10
00:24:46
m and I said M I'm the captain coming to
00:24:49
you telling you what we are seeing as a
00:24:52
team and getting frustrated by bang
00:24:54
another 10
00:24:56
m at that point I said i' actually said
00:24:59
to him for [ __ ] sake what are you
00:25:01
doing this for this is supposed to be
00:25:03
communication that a captain can have
00:25:05
with a referee yeah boom so yeah 30 I
00:25:08
think it was 30 met that he marched me
00:25:10
so but yeah then tame Randall came he
00:25:12
was injured at the time and he came back
00:25:14
into rugby um the next year and took
00:25:17
over the captaincy but Dom if you if I'm
00:25:20
being honest um I I don't I I didn't
00:25:24
feel I was a bad Captain um I felt that
00:25:27
I had a good understanding of the the
00:25:28
game and game plan game management um
00:25:30
probably wasn't that great with dealing
00:25:33
with referees cuz I could see things
00:25:34
happening in front of me as a nine that
00:25:35
frustrated me but I don't think it was
00:25:38
it was meant for me to be to be a
00:25:40
captain particularly of the All Blacks
00:25:42
the pressure that that that entails the
00:25:46
the freedom that it takes away from you
00:25:48
I think I'm I was a better player been
00:25:50
able to express my competitiveness on
00:25:51
the field and not have to deal with
00:25:54
those peripheral things cuz you can
00:25:55
still control a game as a nine game
00:25:58
manage it because that's your role
00:26:00
without actually having the captain C's
00:26:02
arm band so the good thing that I can
00:26:04
say is that I proudly kept kept in my
00:26:07
country and I was incredibly proud and
00:26:09
it was a huge honor and I feel I didn't
00:26:12
let again anyone down we didn't lose a
00:26:14
test match yeah um Drew one one3 came
00:26:18
out of it unscathed it's a it's a
00:26:21
massive on it um yeah we'll get back
00:26:23
into that um we launched stranded some
00:26:26
stranded some gold here
00:26:29
right let's go all the way back there
00:26:30
the the early years cuz there's um
00:26:32
there's a quote by Aristotle that says
00:26:33
give me a boy until he's seven and I
00:26:34
will show you the man so first first few
00:26:38
years of your life what were they like
00:26:39
so you're from Gore I'm from I'm from
00:26:42
matara but um yeah if people are looking
00:26:45
on the map and can't find Mata because
00:26:47
it's written really small and it's a
00:26:48
very small town then basically say the
00:26:50
gore area um but yeah no I I grew up
00:26:54
there grew up there and um and and went
00:26:57
to school there uh and that's where I
00:26:59
did all of my schooling uh right through
00:27:01
until when I left when I was um
00:27:04
16 but I wasn't enjoying school so I
00:27:07
bailed out and went went straight into
00:27:09
work but yeah those I guess like any kid
00:27:13
growing up around that time and you'll
00:27:14
be similar um you know there there was a
00:27:17
completely different life style in front
00:27:19
of you wasn't there which was not
00:27:21
revolving around any form of technology
00:27:24
I think the first time I ever saw
00:27:25
technology was one of those um Nintendo
00:27:28
things that you plugged into TV that you
00:27:29
could play tennis with with the
00:27:31
bar oh yeah one of the really early
00:27:34
gaming consoles yeah and then I think
00:27:36
Pac-Man came out I was like man this how
00:27:38
good Pacman bloody hell this is
00:27:41
awesome um so yeah that so you had to
00:27:44
make your own fun and entertainment but
00:27:46
uh you know I kind of was always
00:27:48
involved in rugby but I was only
00:27:50
involved with it because my mates were
00:27:52
and I I enjoyed playing it um and and in
00:27:54
general I was I was pretty good at
00:27:56
school um
00:27:58
very famous for uh being the fastest at
00:28:02
Intermediate School at the six times
00:28:05
table really had to get up on stage and
00:28:08
do the the six times table do it want me
00:28:10
do it for you no not really okay 12 63's
00:28:14
80 6 4 24 65 3 6 6 36 67 42 68 48 69 54
00:28:18
16 60 it's like the worst
00:28:22
part cuz it doesn't mean you're good at
00:28:24
maths it just means you've you memorized
00:28:26
the the Cadence of I have yeah memorized
00:28:29
it it was a proud moment for me like
00:28:31
striding up there with my shirt out and
00:28:33
my tire around my head no no no um onto
00:28:36
the stage and uh Justin Marshall's going
00:28:38
to do the six times table very quickly
00:28:39
everybody a little round of applause hey
00:28:42
Justin want turn the seven times table
00:28:43
no no no I'm a SE specialist hey we
00:28:46
don't we don't go above sex you know so
00:28:48
okay so you're you're a good kid um good
00:28:51
good at rugby but not not like a
00:28:53
freakish Talent not like okay and you
00:28:55
were um you were like a delinquent or
00:28:58
that come later that came a little bit
00:28:59
later I think probably um around the
00:29:03
time I got to high school I started to
00:29:05
recognize very quickly that it's this is
00:29:08
a weird situation that that I was
00:29:11
because I was when I say I wasn't
00:29:14
amazing at rugby I was good at rugby so
00:29:17
I was always playing in teams above my
00:29:20
age um and so because of that I was
00:29:24
socializing with older kids so they were
00:29:27
too
00:29:28
sometimes 3 years older than me um at
00:29:30
school so they they were obviously um
00:29:34
evolving from sort of you know teenagers
00:29:37
into kind of men to a degree and and you
00:29:41
know rather than drinking a soda
00:29:42
drinking a beer and stuff so I was kind
00:29:45
of walking in their footsteps because I
00:29:47
was playing in those Rugby teams and I
00:29:49
didn't play for the school which keeps
00:29:51
you in in your in your Zone in your lane
00:29:54
I stayed and played for the club that's
00:29:56
why you'll never find any Me featuring
00:29:59
in any secondary schools rugby I never
00:30:00
played I stayed and played for the club
00:30:02
and we played against the school um so
00:30:06
yeah look uh we um look famously and I
00:30:10
know and I know this sounds bad but like
00:30:12
everybody has stories where you go oh
00:30:14
well that obviously just was the way it
00:30:16
transpired on the day and is what it is
00:30:18
um and and you know you you you again
00:30:21
you you think about it and you think
00:30:22
well how bad does this sound but
00:30:24
actually it happened and I'm never been
00:30:25
one that holds back from saying yeah we
00:30:28
did that um and that happened and and
00:30:31
life goes on and there was no harm done
00:30:33
but yeah we I remember we we one game we
00:30:36
were driving to tanel from the tower
00:30:37
which is about a 2 2 and a half hour
00:30:40
drive um and we had a bus and we had a
00:30:42
keg to drink after the game for the bus
00:30:45
trp back but then somebody thought it
00:30:47
was a good idea to open The Keg on the
00:30:48
way up to the
00:30:50
game
00:30:52
so so obviously I know I know I know so
00:30:56
yeah obviously you know you have
00:30:57
situations like that and um you know you
00:31:01
kind
00:31:02
of regrettably obviously the game ended
00:31:04
in a fight and got C off but um I think
00:31:08
you know that that was that was where um
00:31:11
my balance was off I was I was starting
00:31:14
to get noticed and so we're talking now
00:31:16
you're just out of intermediate leading
00:31:17
into high school so everything else
00:31:19
leading up to them was pretty normal um
00:31:22
where my balance was off between you
00:31:24
know putting the right amount of time
00:31:26
and focus into my sport
00:31:28
uh cuz I was still playing Cricket at
00:31:29
the time too which I really enjoyed um
00:31:31
but it was equally I was playing I was
00:31:33
only 16 17 playing with you know 28 29
00:31:36
30 year olds uh so you know you were
00:31:39
always you know going going and
00:31:40
socializing with them too so it kind of
00:31:43
was where I was a little bit distracted
00:31:46
by the sociability rather than staying
00:31:49
focused with the the F the first thing I
00:31:51
should have been thinking about which
00:31:52
was was playing the sport you know yeah
00:31:56
um and and you can once you once you get
00:31:58
into that sort of situation and again
00:32:00
you know there's not a lot to do you'll
00:32:02
know this mate you're from palon North
00:32:03
that's genuinely genuinely one of the
00:32:06
Bogan towns of oh okay on that's
00:32:09
hurtful that's that's the the home of
00:32:11
your wife as well so I won't have you
00:32:13
disrespecting pal well she doesn't
00:32:15
really offer too much rebuttal I do say
00:32:17
it's a bit of a a Bogan Town um you know
00:32:21
we we all had our all had our old datson
00:32:24
and you know hqs and all that around but
00:32:29
again like mate there's no there was no
00:32:31
movie theaters or bowling alleys or you
00:32:33
know any any of that sort of thing in
00:32:35
the general area where I was like you
00:32:36
had to go to the Big Smoke in Bago if
00:32:38
you wanted to do that so you made your
00:32:41
own sort of entertainment you know but I
00:32:43
supp there's only so much um I mean you
00:32:46
look back now and the trouble you got
00:32:47
into it's kind of cute really on the big
00:32:50
scheme of things you're not Ram rating
00:32:52
and no geez no no no no nothing what
00:32:54
place so you got in trouble one um one
00:32:56
Christmas holidays for buying buing
00:32:58
booze with your mate's ID yes I did yeah
00:33:01
I did vau Murphy did
00:33:04
you does he still wheel out the yarn
00:33:06
does he love it yeah yeah he does yeah
00:33:08
no that was that was bad though because
00:33:10
I 10 dozen beers I was yeah and I was
00:33:12
the youngest and they said the the other
00:33:14
guys who were illegal to go get the beer
00:33:17
thought that they needed to see whether
00:33:18
or not I could step up so they said take
00:33:20
Vaughn's fake ID and go get us so
00:33:23
everyone gave me their money CU it was
00:33:25
Christmas holiday period um and we were
00:33:28
staying at the camping ground in
00:33:29
Queenstown go go get get us our supply
00:33:31
of beers you know and so I I went in and
00:33:35
then I came out with the guy accepted my
00:33:37
fake ID and I came out and standing
00:33:39
right in front of me was a police
00:33:40
officer and he said to me uh that's
00:33:43
quite a lot of beer for you I said oh
00:33:44
it's not for me it's from my mates as
00:33:47
well he said right he said um are you
00:33:50
legally um old enough to buy that beer I
00:33:53
said yeah he said let me see your ID
00:33:54
please so I gave it to him and he said
00:33:57
right Mr
00:33:57
[Music]
00:33:58
Murphy so what's your birthday and I
00:34:01
said the I think I said the the the 11th
00:34:04
of the 11th of the 10th um 58 or
00:34:08
whatever I said actually the 10th or the
00:34:10
11th he said oh you don't know your
00:34:11
birth dat now do
00:34:13
you which one is it Mr Murphy and I went
00:34:17
oh uh he said this is not your ID is it
00:34:21
he said I'll give you one opportunity he
00:34:23
said where this could either have you
00:34:26
down at the police station or us solving
00:34:28
this problem now so I said yeah okay
00:34:31
it's not mine um so he confiscated the
00:34:33
beer and um I think I got a warning uh
00:34:37
but yeah the worst thing was having to
00:34:39
go back to the car we're all and they
00:34:43
were like uh where is the bear and I was
00:34:45
like well if we want to get it it's down
00:34:47
at the local police station F I'm sure
00:34:49
you're pretty Keen not to go get it from
00:34:51
there so yeah that was that was
00:34:53
obviously a bit disappointing but no in
00:34:55
general um was that like the West
00:34:57
trouble you got them pretty much yeah no
00:34:59
I got into trouble uh for throwing
00:35:01
acorns at um cars when they were driving
00:35:03
past and the police St police police
00:35:05
came and got us for that um I thought
00:35:07
that was you know pretty minor to be you
00:35:11
know be involved with the police for
00:35:14
throwing acorns at C Small Town Police
00:35:16
there's not there's nothing else for
00:35:18
them to do um but no the the the the big
00:35:22
um which is well documented which I talk
00:35:24
very openly about is is when I got into
00:35:27
got into to um it wasn't even a fight
00:35:30
into uh and a issue at a pub and and
00:35:34
Gore and it was a it was a life-changing
00:35:37
experience for me that was um it was a
00:35:39
bad assault on my behalf and um you know
00:35:43
the victim at the time hadn't done
00:35:45
anything wrong um it was just me uh
00:35:48
overindulging and um thought that he had
00:35:50
said something to me which he hadn't and
00:35:53
um yeah I assaulted him and uh the
00:35:56
police got involved involved and um it
00:36:00
was a bad because it was a bad assault
00:36:02
um you know they were talking jail time
00:36:05
and they were going after me very hard
00:36:06
the
00:36:07
police uh very scary time very very
00:36:11
quickly um a massive reality check of
00:36:15
things are spiraling out of control here
00:36:17
uh and you're not only jeopardizing what
00:36:19
you're probably doing in rugby which was
00:36:21
that was the that it was part of the
00:36:23
other thing I again I was getting
00:36:26
frustrated because i' actually made a
00:36:28
decision to move out of the area to go
00:36:30
try and play a better style of rugby
00:36:34
which was down in Southland play for a
00:36:36
bigger Club um and a lot of people
00:36:39
didn't like didn't like that I got I
00:36:42
used to cop quite a bit of you know
00:36:44
criticism and you know small town toy
00:36:47
thing thinking you're better than what
00:36:48
you are that's right yeah and you know
00:36:50
why don't you stay and play around here
00:36:51
you know blah blah blah you know um so
00:36:54
you know that that that frustration I
00:36:56
think just um um on this particular
00:36:59
evening and there was a few things said
00:37:00
because there was another Rugby Club
00:37:01
that were in town um or in the same Pub
00:37:04
and there was a few things said but it
00:37:06
had nothing to do with this with with
00:37:07
the victim at all not completely not his
00:37:10
fault um and and then it just something
00:37:13
happened and something inside me just
00:37:14
you know so that that that was hard mate
00:37:19
I was in a bad place for that um like I
00:37:22
said the police were really after me big
00:37:24
time um and uh you know that a lot of
00:37:27
the I was getting we were getting phone
00:37:28
calls at home um from Friends of the guy
00:37:32
and and people saying that they were
00:37:34
going to get me and all that sort of
00:37:35
stuff had the police after me half the
00:37:37
town after me um but but I always feel
00:37:42
that it was really pivotal moment in my
00:37:45
life to recognize that that I had lost
00:37:50
control and that I was very close to if
00:37:54
I got through this I was very close to
00:37:57
losing everything I'd worked so hard for
00:37:59
so that that that was that was probably
00:38:02
the Catalyst for me getting to where I
00:38:04
am today how how old were you then uh 18
00:38:09
18 wow so four years later you're in the
00:38:11
old blacks yeah yeah yeah what how was
00:38:14
that time for your your parents like
00:38:15
were they were they were they mad or
00:38:17
disappointed they were disappointed and
00:38:19
mad initially um and you know what have
00:38:21
you done um and then obviously they were
00:38:22
dealing this is old there's no cell
00:38:24
phones mate so it was a home phone that
00:38:26
was ringing you know
00:38:27
old school BL hell no caller idea yeah
00:38:31
yeah uh no that's it so yeah but then
00:38:33
they fair play they um they were
00:38:37
incredibly supportive you know I think
00:38:38
they saw that I recognized I'd done
00:38:41
something really bad and really wrong um
00:38:43
by my reaction and the way that I was
00:38:45
Within Myself and I think you know
00:38:48
because I was getting it from everywhere
00:38:51
um like I said from from all angles I
00:38:54
needed I needed that support um and they
00:38:56
were very supportive of me you know even
00:38:58
though they knew that what I'd done was
00:39:00
wrong which was good because it helped
00:39:02
me get through it yeah yeah it's
00:39:04
probably like um almost like a Scared
00:39:06
Straight sort of situation it's probably
00:39:08
what what you needed at the time you
00:39:09
needed a you know what it is yeah but I
00:39:11
just wish that that never happened you
00:39:13
know like I I regret it to this day um I
00:39:15
have the the most amount of Sympathy for
00:39:18
the person that I did it to and the way
00:39:20
that he handled
00:39:22
himself um after it and the way that uh
00:39:26
he um approached it um was you know
00:39:32
incredibly commendable you know like I
00:39:35
don't think I would have been able to to
00:39:37
to to do that and to move on like he did
00:39:39
and um yeah I do um a a great amount of
00:39:43
gratitude because he he probably helped
00:39:45
me get to get to this point as well by
00:39:48
being the person that he
00:39:50
was you know one thing one thing I think
00:39:53
that's um that really cool about about
00:39:55
you so far is um like just how willing
00:39:58
you like part of the human experience is
00:40:00
is [ __ ] up yeah it and no one wants
00:40:03
to own that stuff because it's it's
00:40:05
unpleasant yeah um but you've
00:40:07
surrendered the stuff yeah yeah and and
00:40:10
I think that's important though
00:40:12
because I think you're right everybody
00:40:14
does [ __ ] up at some stage and and you
00:40:17
do have you do you know you either wake
00:40:20
up in the morning or you you you you sit
00:40:23
sit down and actually think about what
00:40:24
you've just done and how it's happened
00:40:28
and you're instantly filled with regret
00:40:30
and worry and fear and and and all of
00:40:32
that um or equally you're seeing this
00:40:35
pathway and you're finding you're trying
00:40:37
to find a way out of it and you can't
00:40:38
see the way out and it's incredible if
00:40:41
you actually look how much support there
00:40:43
is out there and I think probably giving
00:40:45
giving the messaging which I'm quite
00:40:48
open in
00:40:49
doing uh hopefully if there are others
00:40:52
in a similar situation or are in that
00:40:54
situation now and hear me speak about it
00:40:57
and how it changed me that it can change
00:40:59
them I think that's important you know
00:41:01
that you that people you can be in a
00:41:04
hole but you actually can get out of
00:41:05
that hole with the right with the right
00:41:07
people around you with the right support
00:41:09
and equally with your own determination
00:41:11
you know and and and realizing that you
00:41:14
you can be a better person yeah is it's
00:41:17
key I think yeah but at that point rugby
00:41:20
wasn't like a um like a pathway out of
00:41:23
out of um the Deep South for you it was
00:41:25
still amateur that so you were working
00:41:26
at freezing work yeah I was working the
00:41:28
freezing work what were you doing there
00:41:30
uh I started on uh on the Broom um which
00:41:33
is just sweeping up all the the crap
00:41:35
that falls off all the carcasses um the
00:41:37
smell must have been awful oh yeah get
00:41:39
used to it like anything but yeah
00:41:40
initially it is it's bit of a bit of a
00:41:42
realization that um you know when you go
00:41:45
along that that that it isn't a smell
00:41:47
that you want to um have dealt with
00:41:49
regularly before um and then I moved on
00:41:51
to the gut trays so basically that's
00:41:54
where the animal comes along and you're
00:41:55
standing along there's about a a
00:41:57
revolving
00:41:59
um sort of uh bench full of trays
00:42:03
aluminium trays and the the guys they
00:42:06
they they they gut the animal and then
00:42:08
all that gets put on the tray and you're
00:42:10
separating the kidneys and the heart and
00:42:12
then teses and all that and putting them
00:42:14
into different different areas and and
00:42:16
then I actually ended up um getting onto
00:42:19
the knife and um went through all most
00:42:21
of most of the uh chain of all the
00:42:25
butchering butchering requirements of of
00:42:27
an animal right from down the slaughter
00:42:29
board right through down to the boning
00:42:31
room when you're when they yeah so it
00:42:33
was it's quite cool um one my one of my
00:42:37
lines that I used to say when that when
00:42:39
I was young and um you know young and
00:42:41
enthusiastic and and you're out and
00:42:43
about was um you're in and you're in a
00:42:46
bar you know everyone's got a line
00:42:48
haven't haven't they I talking to to a
00:42:50
girl they would say oh what do you do
00:42:53
and I said I'm a professional boner
00:42:59
when we leave here you want to come to
00:43:00
the boning
00:43:02
room but yeah no so um again it was uh
00:43:07
it was good because it was um you know
00:43:11
when I when I first made the All Blacks
00:43:14
and I know I'm jumping forward with with
00:43:15
your notes but I think everything's
00:43:17
messaging is when I first made the All
00:43:20
Blacks uh we I went on the first ever
00:43:23
paid trip uh tour the game hadn't turned
00:43:25
Pro but at the end of 95 the All Blacks
00:43:28
decide the All Blacks could sense the
00:43:31
game turning professional and so we got
00:43:34
paid to go on that tour um which was in
00:43:37
1995 to France um and Italy and every
00:43:40
every person got paid by the by the new
00:43:42
AR Union to go on that trip so up until
00:43:45
then the game was amateur you weren't
00:43:46
making money out of un I'd already been
00:43:47
an all black um at that stage but we
00:43:50
were earning money off tickets and we
00:43:52
got per DMS per day that's that's all we
00:43:55
got so now we're all so we get a lump
00:43:57
sum of money now to go back and jump
00:44:00
back which is why I'm telling this story
00:44:02
is I know we got I remember we got paid
00:44:04
$30,000 to go on that trip um and we're
00:44:07
away for seven weeks I think it was CU
00:44:10
we played midweek games as well and I
00:44:12
remember getting that money into my bank
00:44:14
account
00:44:15
$330,000 and it made me instantly think
00:44:18
about how much work standing on concrete
00:44:23
blood guts and sweat that I used to have
00:44:25
to do at the freezing work big long days
00:44:28
and I never earned that much money in a
00:44:30
calendar year let alone be given it in
00:44:33
one lump sum you know and and for me
00:44:36
that that was very much appreciative of
00:44:39
what I was been given because I know
00:44:41
what it's like to work for that or try
00:44:43
and work towards even earning that and I
00:44:45
hadn't been able to do that in my entire
00:44:47
life and all of a sudden I got it in one
00:44:50
big lump some for going perceivably
00:44:53
going to work or just playing rugby for
00:44:56
6 weeks but took me back to the freezing
00:44:58
works because I knew what the value gr
00:45:00
yeah and I knew what the grind was like
00:45:01
to have to earn that money so again that
00:45:04
was good for me so I never spent any of
00:45:05
that the only thing I bought at the time
00:45:07
with that money because I'd always
00:45:09
wanted one was a five burner gas
00:45:14
barbecue I was thinking um I thought you
00:45:17
get B like a
00:45:19
sabar h Prelude or something I only
00:45:21
heard if people remember way back then
00:45:23
the barbecues and you probably remember
00:45:25
that they when they first come out the
00:45:26
gas ones or just a little round disc
00:45:28
with with a little small gas bottle
00:45:30
underneath them yeah yeah yeah um and
00:45:32
and I I had one of those but uh whenever
00:45:35
I would go and cook my barbecue say I
00:45:37
was with my dad who had actually gone up
00:45:38
a level to the next barbecue which was
00:45:40
the three burners or two burners or
00:45:42
whatever instead of just the little
00:45:44
round aluminium one is I I got got
00:45:47
became known as The Onion cooker so on
00:45:50
my little barbecue I was only allowed to
00:45:51
cook onions you run out was doing the
00:45:54
steak and the and the Sausages or
00:45:56
whatever so when I got that money I was
00:45:58
like right I'm getting rid of the onion
00:45:59
cooker and I'm stepping it up to a five
00:46:01
burner but I I didn't spend any of the
00:46:03
rest of it cuz I knew I knew what it
00:46:06
takes to to have to earn that money
00:46:08
where where did that financial literacy
00:46:09
come
00:46:10
from cuz others went so lucky like you
00:46:13
I've heard so many stories from others
00:46:15
about Jonah like just being generous to
00:46:17
a fault and yeah buying cars for younger
00:46:20
players and yeah stopping on the bus in
00:46:22
a town and going to electric and buying
00:46:25
ghetto blaster oh my God mate when we in
00:46:28
palon North we those camps that I was
00:46:31
telling you that we used to have there
00:46:33
um at The Institute I remember Jonah
00:46:36
coming cuz he had obviously driven from
00:46:37
Wellington so we're assembling for the
00:46:39
All Blacks and I was already there and I
00:46:41
came out of my room and I was like the
00:46:44
hell is that and then I could and I was
00:46:47
like so I stopped walking and Stood
00:46:49
Still and then I could hear it and I was
00:46:52
going like what the hell is that and
00:46:55
then I could see what out in the
00:46:57
distance you know still a kilometer at
00:46:59
least away Jonah's car and it was tinted
00:47:03
down to the max pimped up but he had his
00:47:06
whole back seat was two huge big
00:47:08
speakers he had them customly put in
00:47:10
there and they were they were basically
00:47:12
just big super woofers or whatever and
00:47:14
yeah you could hear him coming from a
00:47:16
million miles away that's already he had
00:47:18
the world record for the loudest car or
00:47:20
yeah generous to h j actually yeah when
00:47:23
I I eventually didn't Splash out and
00:47:25
bought a boat one year because Jonah was
00:47:27
sponsored by Fusion that a speaker
00:47:30
company and they were also a marine
00:47:32
brand and um he he just sent me down he
00:47:35
said oh you got a boat oh I'll get you
00:47:36
some f Fusion gear and it just turned up
00:47:39
you know I didn't ask for it didn't ask
00:47:41
for it for free didn't he just sent it
00:47:43
cuz we'd been chatting about it he said
00:47:45
oh they do Marine stuff and boom it just
00:47:47
turned up you know so yeah very generous
00:47:49
um where did uh that come from Dom I'm
00:47:51
not sure I I think I was like any kid
00:47:55
when I when you were growing up at that
00:47:56
time to a degree a lot of my mates as
00:47:58
well where I got bloody [ __ ] scared of
00:48:00
going to the ATM not knowing if there's
00:48:03
going to be any money on my card you
00:48:05
know putting putting fuel in the car was
00:48:07
always was always stressful um you know
00:48:11
like it it was money wasn't easy to come
00:48:14
by it you know you you worked hard and
00:48:16
you earned money but then you had other
00:48:17
overheads that you had to you know my my
00:48:19
dad taught me you know Roy early he he
00:48:23
charged I remember him charging me bored
00:48:24
and I was like what he said no now
00:48:27
you're working you'll pay Bor if you're
00:48:28
staying here it'll cost you a shitload
00:48:29
more than a flat I was like I don't
00:48:32
think it will goes your mom still makes
00:48:34
your bed washes your clothes we provide
00:48:36
the food and you're earning so you pay
00:48:39
board it really that was a really good
00:48:41
lesson for me because you know when I
00:48:43
did look at and hear from my mates who
00:48:44
were out of their living with their mom
00:48:46
and dad cuz let's you know like I said I
00:48:48
was 16 17 so still wasn't really away
00:48:51
from the home so it wasn't that weird
00:48:52
living with my mom and dad when I wasn't
00:48:54
23 or 24 no offense to anybody out there
00:48:57
please if
00:48:59
they Place imagine calling yourself a
00:49:02
professional boner then got to be quiet
00:49:04
cuz M and dad in the exactly exactly I
00:49:06
know had yeah did have its setbacks
00:49:09
didn't it but um yeah so I I I kind of
00:49:12
feel that uh it just gave me a real Edge
00:49:17
in knowing that when that um money did
00:49:20
come in I appreciated what it was like
00:49:23
to not have it uh so yeah I didn't
00:49:26
really go out and and spend it um
00:49:29
ridiculous ridiculously
00:49:31
because uh yeah you never know when that
00:49:34
flow is going to stop as well that's
00:49:36
that's the one thing you know like
00:49:38
that's smart though isn't it yeah smart
00:49:40
for young fellow because it' be very
00:49:41
easy to you know blow go yeah I was um
00:49:45
in palmon hanging out with um Christian
00:49:47
a bit at that time so he was in the same
00:49:49
set of position he was quite smart with
00:49:51
his money as well I think he got it from
00:49:52
his M and his M and his dad he's always
00:49:54
been very good at that and I think a lot
00:49:56
of the the the guys that came
00:49:58
through kind of amateur and he was right
00:50:01
on the cusp of that into
00:50:03
professionalism um we didn't know at
00:50:07
that stage where the game was going to
00:50:09
go there was this
00:50:11
real a cloudy kind of future for the
00:50:15
game like we were just dipping our toe
00:50:17
into professionalism so you never really
00:50:19
knew where it was ever going to end up
00:50:23
and whether or not it was going to be
00:50:24
sustainable so you know the money that
00:50:26
you were earning like in 3 years time of
00:50:28
frug went you know what it's not worked
00:50:30
you know that if you hadn't saved that
00:50:32
then you had nothing and yet you'd lost
00:50:34
three years of your working life so you
00:50:36
had to around that time just work
00:50:39
within the the the um the requirements
00:50:42
of the time which was which was
00:50:44
basically your contract and that's a
00:50:46
hard thing like
00:50:47
I for the all of my life since I left
00:50:51
the freezing
00:50:52
Works um and I'm 15 now um
00:50:57
oh 51 two weeks ago oh thanks are you
00:51:00
are you embarrassed about saying your
00:51:01
age why are you yeah I feel that um I'm
00:51:05
over the hump now wasn't too bad when I
00:51:07
was in the 40s 50 I had a a big booze up
00:51:10
and kind of thought okay all right you
00:51:12
know um that's 50 now and it's done but
00:51:14
51 is like you're on that other side of
00:51:18
100 aren't you you're on the downward
00:51:19
slide so second half I don't feel that
00:51:22
though you know and so I'm reluctant to
00:51:24
say that on that age I don't know why
00:51:26
but
00:51:27
um yeah so that that that's you know
00:51:29
that's that's something that I kind of
00:51:32
um have had to deal with in the last
00:51:34
couple of weeks but I'm okay um where
00:51:36
was I going with what was I talking
00:51:37
about before um lost my train of thought
00:51:40
I don't know we were talking about the
00:51:41
money side of things but um oh no no no
00:51:43
so yeah sorry I know what it was um is
00:51:47
being being 51 but since I left the
00:51:49
freezing works I have dealt my entire
00:51:52
life living by terminal contracts
00:51:57
so that's hard yeah yeah yeah so I when
00:52:01
I retired from rugby I retired at
00:52:03
36 um I I got my first contract at 19
00:52:07
with rugby then retired at 36 and then I
00:52:10
went straight into working for Sky TV on
00:52:12
a contract and none of those have been
00:52:15
any longer than 4 years and some of them
00:52:18
like now is a terminal um next year uh
00:52:22
so you're always living by this
00:52:24
uncertainty you know you're not actually
00:52:27
employed you you're at you're at the the
00:52:30
Peril of your contract it's a hard way
00:52:32
to live you're literally only as good as
00:52:34
your last game or last yeah yeah so yeah
00:52:38
I've lived my entire life by contracts
00:52:40
and and some of them when I was getting
00:52:42
in my late 30s with rugby were one year
00:52:45
two years um and then equally you know
00:52:48
in TV like I said none of them been
00:52:49
longer than four so you kind of like
00:52:51
don't know what the future holds beyond
00:52:53
that little period of your life yeah you
00:52:56
renew and then you that's but but but
00:52:59
you're always aware of it so I think
00:53:01
that kind of makes you a bit guarded
00:53:03
around
00:53:05
being yeah yeah exactly overly expansive
00:53:08
and um you're spending there's always
00:53:10
half code of fullback on yeah yeah there
00:53:12
is yes there is absolutely oh he's the
00:53:15
boner exactly he's back look out um so
00:53:20
um yeah recall the the news when you
00:53:23
first made the old blacks so you're 22
00:53:24
years old are you in the a Super Rugby
00:53:27
thing at that time was this pre okay so
00:53:29
you're playing Super Rugby H do you do
00:53:32
you get a f no no sorry no Super Rugby
00:53:34
was the next year okay so 9 I was
00:53:36
playing Canterbury rugby okay and we had
00:53:38
the ramly shield that year 995 yeah yeah
00:53:41
who's in the team who are some of the
00:53:42
players on the team that year Todd black
00:53:45
yeah Todd blackader um Andrew Mertens we
00:53:48
had the the four M Marshall mton mayor
00:53:51
Hoffler and Matson T Matson um darl
00:53:55
Gibson was in that team
00:53:57
um we said Paul aballe on the wing um
00:54:01
that year we had Mike Brewer Richard low
00:54:04
um you know Tod blackhead you mentioned
00:54:07
some great players that that deserve
00:54:09
more accolades like Angus Gardner um uh
00:54:12
so yeah we we had we had a very good
00:54:14
side Matt ston Mark Hammet um so yeah um
00:54:18
I think probably
00:54:21
995 uh we were very lucky because we had
00:54:24
the Renfield shield with Lancaster Park
00:54:26
me and for the I think five Shield games
00:54:28
that we had that year we didn't have a
00:54:31
crowd less than 30,000 people place
00:54:34
unreal [ __ ] rocking like absolutely
00:54:37
pumping you know and the whole ground
00:54:39
was packed because there was no
00:54:41
professional rug there's no super R
00:54:43
there's nothing so we were running out
00:54:45
to these huge crowds and we had the
00:54:47
raner shield which was the biggest
00:54:49
trophy in the game and we had some big
00:54:51
defenses that year as well you know and
00:54:53
the last one was ockland so it was a
00:54:55
cool year but the reason I mentioned it
00:54:57
was because it's big
00:54:59
profile so I've always said a lot of and
00:55:04
and and I'm not trying to be the humble
00:55:05
guy by saying this and make people go oh
00:55:07
you know it's so nice um I know you've
00:55:11
already painted a picture yeah I
00:55:13
certainly have um was was I say that I
00:55:17
was lucky because of the the way that
00:55:19
things kind of fell in place for me yes
00:55:21
I still had to make things happen but
00:55:24
going you know play I played in a very
00:55:26
good under 19 team a very good um New
00:55:28
Zealand under 21 team then when I went
00:55:30
to canb I I fell into a team that was um
00:55:34
full of really good players but equally
00:55:35
had the r for his shield and then I was
00:55:37
playing alongside Andrew mton you know
00:55:39
so all of that that that is really high
00:55:42
profile and and so you know if you can
00:55:44
play well um you're playing well on a
00:55:47
really functionable team and and a team
00:55:49
that's getting maximum um profile TV
00:55:53
exposure everything exactly so I was
00:55:56
just very lucky that that those sides
00:55:58
and when I went into that all black side
00:55:59
um in
00:56:01
'95 uh again it was an incredible side
00:56:04
you know like and we went on to to do
00:56:07
great things in '96 and 97 I think we
00:56:09
only lost one test match in in those two
00:56:11
years so yeah it was it was unexpected
00:56:15
given all that that I've told you I
00:56:16
wasn't expecting to be named I I felt
00:56:18
that I'd played well again I'd been in a
00:56:22
good side but when they were talking
00:56:23
about all black announcement I I had
00:56:26
considered myself um to be part of that
00:56:31
the only thing that's weird about that
00:56:33
year is a 95 was the 95 R World Cup um
00:56:37
which obviously the
00:56:40
famous poisoning incident and then the
00:56:43
Joel strany drop goal everyone thinks
00:56:46
that I was Part of That World Cup team
00:56:47
but I wasn't you only lost two not three
00:56:50
yes exactly not three far
00:56:52
out stop picking on me no and um so I I
00:56:56
I I came in postor cup uh and an Strawn
00:57:02
and Graham bash two of the halfbacks
00:57:04
that were at that World Cup went to
00:57:06
Japan so there was vacancy so again
00:57:09
lucky you know that those two decided to
00:57:11
go and and play their rugby in Japan and
00:57:14
so they they needed they I think the
00:57:16
only other one that had been involved
00:57:18
with the All Blacks around those around
00:57:20
that time um was Stu Foster so they took
00:57:24
me Stu Foster and Junior tonu
00:57:26
on that and John Preston as a kind of
00:57:28
hybrid you know because JP could play
00:57:30
Anywhere um so I think again I I even
00:57:35
though I those two guys had left I
00:57:37
wasn't expecting to be named I I if it
00:57:40
was if I was looking at me I would have
00:57:43
thought there's really good potential
00:57:45
there I had played really well I will
00:57:47
say that I had played very well um and
00:57:49
that and that team and in that side and
00:57:51
in those games apart from the Oakland
00:57:52
game um where I learn learned you know
00:57:55
learned a bit about myself in that game
00:57:57
we lost the ranfield shield
00:57:59
comprehensively on that day um and and
00:58:02
as a player I got rattled in that game
00:58:04
but you know that aside I'd played well
00:58:07
but I felt that I was probably just
00:58:08
needed another year if I was looking at
00:58:11
me yeah why why did you get rattled in
00:58:12
that game cuz zinny and Fitzy picked on
00:58:16
me they picked on me
00:58:19
mat cuz obviously what I'd come out of
00:58:23
nowhere yeah yeah now this is the this
00:58:25
is the this is where um I I had I you
00:58:31
know people Sledge yeah and sledging is
00:58:34
an art form and the and the most famous
00:58:35
for it in the world obviously the Aussie
00:58:37
cricketers aren't they I I'd say the
00:58:40
best rugby line ever would go to your
00:58:41
mate George George GRE four more years
00:58:43
was that that was no that was K yes it
00:58:46
was yeah best ever hurtful but also
00:58:49
factually correct yes it is Big Time um
00:58:52
I said how that what so Z Zen and FY
00:58:54
were picking so they were our heaps yeah
00:58:56
so I i' come across seding in my time
00:58:59
and I wasn't um adverse to doing it
00:59:01
myself as well but I hadn't come up
00:59:03
against a couple of professional
00:59:05
sledgers like Zin and Fitzy and uh yeah
00:59:08
they they literally because again I'd
00:59:10
come out of nowhere and it was my first
00:59:12
breakout season they they just I think
00:59:15
they knew that you know being the link
00:59:19
um that if they could rattle me um it it
00:59:22
would affect our cohesion you know when
00:59:26
when the N when your Nine's head is
00:59:28
frying it has an effect on the team
00:59:30
Dynamic and yeah they basically they
00:59:34
were just calling me um a little school
00:59:36
boy
00:59:37
oh when you go in at half timee um
00:59:41
little baby um change your nappy you
00:59:43
know like put a new set of nappes on um
00:59:46
you've obviously like you've obviously
00:59:48
like [ __ ] these ones three time in
00:59:52
this and uh they said oh you're so out
00:59:55
of your depth why why don't you just go
00:59:56
back and you know and play Club rugby
00:59:59
and um yeah just they just did a number
01:00:03
on me to be fair and uh I remember it
01:00:06
very vividly taking my focus away from
01:00:09
what was in front of me to what they
01:00:10
were saying so worked it worked no it
01:00:13
worked I didn't have a terrible game but
01:00:15
I didn't get anywhere near the level
01:00:17
that I'd been playing to before and uh I
01:00:20
I do I do always look back on that game
01:00:23
and think um you know function if I had
01:00:26
not been rattled we might have not
01:00:29
necessarily got a better result but we
01:00:30
might have been in the game more because
01:00:32
we were comprehensively outplayed that
01:00:34
day can't believe you still um even
01:00:38
consider these things now yeah it pisses
01:00:40
me off like I'm like it annoys me that I
01:00:45
I I did fall into the the Trap they set
01:00:48
for me and I and I went into it with
01:00:49
open arms and and you know like I would
01:00:52
have loved for us to have still had that
01:00:55
R Shield at the end of 1995 yeah but I I
01:00:57
could understand if if that was the if
01:00:59
that was the line and the sand of the
01:01:00
Justin Marshall story but you you you
01:01:02
had a fantastic rugby career you've got
01:01:04
a uh a fantastic media career now this
01:01:08
is just like a I don't know like an
01:01:10
80-minute game way back in the 95 just
01:01:13
one sentence in a whole book of the
01:01:14
Justin Marshal story but I can tell it
01:01:16
deletes you up now yeah it does and I
01:01:18
can tell you I can tell I could I I
01:01:20
could Regal many of these instances and
01:01:25
um situations and games where like so I
01:01:29
was one of those guys that didn't I
01:01:31
didn't need to analyze my game like we
01:01:34
we got when when the game turned Pro we
01:01:36
we got the computer ST in front of us
01:01:38
and it was like sit down and let's look
01:01:40
at the performance look at your own
01:01:42
indivis they were all clipped down and
01:01:43
all that sort of caring and I could
01:01:44
literally say the coach I don't need to
01:01:46
I can tell you in the 13th minute when I
01:01:48
went went to the right I shouldn't have
01:01:50
gone that we it was better option to go
01:01:52
to the left um you know equally that
01:01:55
pass and the you you know 58th minute um
01:01:58
it was high and it cost
01:01:59
us I could remember the game and recall
01:02:04
the game like that no no problem I
01:02:06
didn't need and I I I actually said to a
01:02:09
couple of my coaches and they they never
01:02:11
believe me because they thought that I
01:02:12
was just trying to avoid it which I
01:02:14
wasn't I said I don't want to um put a
01:02:18
video clip Up or you to put a video clip
01:02:22
Up in front of me that gives me an
01:02:24
excuse because that's what time can do
01:02:27
because reality and time that you see on
01:02:30
a TV screen is not what you have when
01:02:33
you're making that reaction on the Rugby
01:02:35
field and you could see on a video clip
01:02:38
to give people an example if I'm
01:02:40
defending and there's two guys coming at
01:02:43
me and you can see that there's a little
01:02:45
bit of hes there's a little bit of
01:02:47
hesitation and then I fall off the
01:02:49
tackle but what they can do is then say
01:02:52
but you weren't um it wasn't your man
01:02:53
you weren't in the right position and I
01:02:55
can say it [ __ ] was my man and I just
01:02:58
was slightly off and that was my tackle
01:03:01
but the imagery that you see will show
01:03:03
different it's like no it's like but I
01:03:05
know in my mind that that was my tackle
01:03:09
and I always felt that that gave an
01:03:11
excuse
01:03:12
for uh for you to say you know not my
01:03:15
fault but I always knew when it was my
01:03:18
fault when I'd done wrong when I had
01:03:20
taken the wrong wrong option and all I
01:03:22
Would S say to myself after the games is
01:03:25
I wouldn't watch I've never watched any
01:03:26
of my games never my mom and dad
01:03:30
recorded every single one I've got
01:03:32
VHS can you I don't know if you're ever
01:03:35
play that yeah they should get those
01:03:37
converted before they before they become
01:03:39
obsolete I think you can do that onto
01:03:42
DVD or yeah even like a USB now yeah
01:03:45
yeah um wow I never because I I I can I
01:03:49
can recall them and
01:03:50
and um I never needed needed any
01:03:54
reinforcement I never needed to know
01:03:56
what happened in the game because I was
01:03:57
in the game I played it so but there
01:04:00
have you watched YouTube highlights like
01:04:01
I I watched like a 20 minute Justin
01:04:04
Marshall highlights package on YouTube
01:04:06
the other day it's [ __ ] amazing like
01:04:08
there's you passing the ball to Joon or
01:04:09
him running through a few people then
01:04:10
passing it back to you there's some you
01:04:13
know there's some great moments there
01:04:15
yeah you can't even watch the good no I
01:04:17
don't I don't I'm not one that's I don't
01:04:20
really look at any of that stuff no
01:04:22
which is which is unusual I guess
01:04:24
because it's always nice nice to see
01:04:26
what you've done and what you've
01:04:27
achieved in the game and and big moments
01:04:30
and special moments but again I can
01:04:32
remember them anyway uh you know like
01:04:35
the game in 2000 which they called the
01:04:36
game of the century you know like and I
01:04:39
scored a try in that game I've seen what
01:04:41
was that game that was against Australia
01:04:43
in 2000 yeah where we we won in the last
01:04:45
minute Jonah scored a try it was 4341 I
01:04:48
think it was I think we went we went out
01:04:50
210
01:04:51
after um I don't know like 11 minutes or
01:04:54
something and then they came back and
01:04:56
then it was ding dong it was amazing
01:04:57
game of rugby um but I've I've seen the
01:05:01
imagery of me scoring the try um that I
01:05:04
scored in that game and that but I've
01:05:06
never watched that test match um in its
01:05:08
entirety um but I I could tell you
01:05:11
exactly what happened in it you know so
01:05:13
yeah it's quite quite um quite now that
01:05:16
I think about it unusual that I I
01:05:18
haven't looked to to have a look at any
01:05:20
of that stuff but I just haven't yeah
01:05:22
and what were the um I'm just trying to
01:05:25
think of you because you're in the
01:05:26
fortunate position of having been in all
01:05:27
black in this time and also um like
01:05:30
being a pundit now and probably having
01:05:32
your ear fairly close to the ground with
01:05:34
the ORS um what are the what are the big
01:05:36
differences between then and now like
01:05:38
I'm thinking um like during the World
01:05:40
Cup last year there was that incident
01:05:41
with Mark tier like going out one night
01:05:43
no one even knows what nothing's ever
01:05:45
come out about it um but he got stood
01:05:47
down for a game yeah um yeah what yeah
01:05:50
it seems like there hard and fast rules
01:05:52
now about all black expectations you
01:05:54
guys must have got up to some hinks back
01:05:56
in the day well yeah exactly and and
01:05:57
that's that's the the evolution of of
01:06:00
basically technology and social media I
01:06:03
Feel Again the word lucky is going to
01:06:06
come out but I feel very lucky to have
01:06:07
played through the period that I did
01:06:09
because that accessibility wasn't there
01:06:12
you know so you could go out and have a
01:06:14
couple of bears on a on a Wednesday
01:06:16
night and nobody's taking your
01:06:18
photograph not unless they've got one of
01:06:19
those um like a proper camera and who
01:06:22
goes out on the booze with one of those
01:06:23
you know exactly apart from the pap
01:06:26
like I'm going to go out for a few beds
01:06:27
with mates I'm going to take this big
01:06:28
[ __ ] off camera with me
01:06:31
and so it doesn't happen so like we we
01:06:34
were able to just be a lot
01:06:36
more uh like less scrutinized you know
01:06:40
we had freedom I'm sure we're recognized
01:06:43
in the bars and all that but no one was
01:06:44
taking photos of it so I feel very very
01:06:48
um very I don't know what's the word I'm
01:06:51
looking for but not not fortunate for us
01:06:54
fortunate but for the current player I
01:06:56
feel um I just kind of feel a little not
01:07:00
sorry for them but know what it must be
01:07:03
like for them that they can't really uh
01:07:07
switch off from you know being in in the
01:07:12
in under scrutiny and in the public
01:07:14
profile um so why would you even go out
01:07:16
in public now like you know have some
01:07:19
have some drinks back at the hotel with
01:07:20
your team or whatever but why even go
01:07:22
out yeah why roll the dice because
01:07:24
someone's going to spot you and and and
01:07:26
you know like what I am saying is
01:07:29
necessarily probably a couple instances
01:07:31
I'm talking about we we probably weren't
01:07:33
encouraged by management to be out but
01:07:35
we were out but no one can find out yeah
01:07:38
do you know what I mean so yeah what's
01:07:40
what's some of the stuff you yeah it's
01:07:41
like their word against this is someone
01:07:44
yeah but this yeah very rare what um is
01:07:47
there anything you did did back then
01:07:48
that you'd get canceled for now if
01:07:49
you're a
01:07:50
player um no not not not anything um
01:07:56
bad in terms of doing anything that uh I
01:07:59
guess would harm the team yeah for sure
01:08:02
I wasn't involved in any incidents like
01:08:04
that which was which was quite good but
01:08:05
obviously I'd learned from um getting it
01:08:08
wrong in my youth
01:08:10
so uh I I had actually evolved at that
01:08:14
stage but um no it was just more you
01:08:17
know like the boy the boys are out if
01:08:19
you're if you're what they call in the
01:08:21
dirty dirties which is when you don't
01:08:23
get um changed
01:08:26
uh for a game because the the the
01:08:28
substitutes do but you don't so you're
01:08:29
kind of just on the tour anyway it was
01:08:31
kind of tradition to go out on a Friday
01:08:33
night but trying to stay under the radar
01:08:35
of the management and not get caught
01:08:37
coming back into the hotel which
01:08:39
obviously tip the consci and say you
01:08:41
never saw me mate coming back but yeah I
01:08:44
think no that that was there was nothing
01:08:47
really that bad it was just that you
01:08:49
just didn't have to be accountable for
01:08:52
um everywhere that you were because
01:08:54
people couldn't find you you know in
01:08:56
terms of the them seeing you
01:08:59
photographing you whatever and then it
01:09:01
gets put out there you know oh look at
01:09:04
these guys are out they're not focused
01:09:05
which is not exactly the case you're
01:09:07
actually just human you just want to
01:09:08
relax and chill and enjoy each other's
01:09:11
company but if you ask me Evolution
01:09:13
um I think everything's just much much
01:09:17
more detailed now hell of a lot more
01:09:20
details uh I remember going to all black
01:09:23
training run and I hadn't been for a
01:09:24
while um when Steve Hansen had control
01:09:28
and I got to go for the whole day they
01:09:29
they they allowed me in so I went into
01:09:31
the team meetings and that and I
01:09:32
couldn't believe the amount of detail
01:09:34
that they were going into just in their
01:09:36
pre-training pre-training meetings
01:09:39
players standing out the imagery that
01:09:41
they had and all that and then I went
01:09:42
along to the actual training run and
01:09:44
they were doing this block play where
01:09:46
they were um you know they had two
01:09:48
transition Runners out the back and
01:09:49
someone coming on a short ball and a tip
01:09:52
past option anyway they were they were
01:09:53
they were doing it repeatedly as a team
01:09:55
they keep getting it wrong and there's a
01:09:57
lot of ball goes down and there's a lot
01:09:58
of go chatting and then they go again
01:10:01
they do it again I was just watching it
01:10:02
all unfold and then all of a sudden
01:10:04
there was just a big blast of the
01:10:06
whistle it's like everyone stopped and
01:10:09
these two very um golf carts come come
01:10:12
out onto the field with big TV screens
01:10:15
on them you know and uh all of a sudden
01:10:18
they're all huddled around this and
01:10:20
they're literally watching what had just
01:10:22
someone had been filming their training
01:10:24
and watching them do these block plays
01:10:26
and now they were looking at this te
01:10:28
they're standing in their boots in the
01:10:29
middle of the field looking at this
01:10:30
thing and I was just like oh my God
01:10:33
you're
01:10:34
like well we sometimes you know we we we
01:10:37
had um when we're first on a tour you
01:10:39
gone out and just had a couple of beers
01:10:41
at night every now and then you'd be
01:10:42
hung over at training there's no way you
01:10:45
could be hung over at training nowadays
01:10:47
like there's cameras there's cameras
01:10:49
everywhere there's heart rate monitors
01:10:51
you know there's there's GPS's that are
01:10:53
tracking you and if you button off they
01:10:56
know you you're not you're not can't get
01:10:58
away with you can't get away with
01:11:00
[ __ ] so yeah I don't I don't envy that
01:11:03
yeah cuz at the end of the day Dom
01:11:06
right it it's it's a it's an awesome
01:11:09
game and you you got to love playing the
01:11:12
game yeah um and and I just feel that um
01:11:15
you know sometimes that that Love of the
01:11:18
Game and that that desire just to want
01:11:20
to go out and play isn't is been clouded
01:11:24
with information overload M you know
01:11:27
like it's not that technical a game when
01:11:30
you're in the or black environment now
01:11:31
like you talked before about being for
01:11:33
the training day thing are you um are
01:11:35
you given the sort of respect and Mana
01:11:37
that you deserve or you sort of seen as
01:11:39
a bit of a traitor no no they're very
01:11:41
good yeah yeah no very good and uh any
01:11:44
environment that you go into now uh that
01:11:46
they're very very much it's not respect
01:11:50
it's just they know you're part of the
01:11:52
club and that and that I I really
01:11:54
cherish you know the fact that um it's
01:11:57
very difficult to be in the role that
01:11:59
I'm in uh and I'm not the only one doing
01:12:01
it because it's done across the globe
01:12:03
yeah well you imagine like you were when
01:12:05
you were a player if you heard some
01:12:06
commentator had said something about you
01:12:09
you would have been you would have had
01:12:10
the Red Mist oh I did and it did happen
01:12:13
to me um you know and there's a few of
01:12:15
them that were were not yeah exactly
01:12:18
weren't kind
01:12:19
but uh I I think you know ultimately
01:12:22
it's not personal I think the thing that
01:12:26
annoyed me when I was a player was if if
01:12:29
somebody just came out and criticized me
01:12:31
which is fine and they're a former all
01:12:33
black but that criticism wasn't then
01:12:36
supported with um a reason why as long
01:12:40
as as long as that was part of the
01:12:42
component I was fine yeah but when they
01:12:44
just said no needs to be dropped um
01:12:47
definitely uh need to play such and such
01:12:49
he's um not playing well um but if they
01:12:52
had said you know um defensively has has
01:12:55
been a little slow and covering across
01:12:58
and you know um delivery from line out
01:13:01
is not quite good or half it looks just
01:13:04
a half whatever it might be as long as
01:13:06
it's supported with valid information
01:13:09
and and and the critique is then kind of
01:13:12
like right well these are the reasons
01:13:13
why I am saying I think you should be
01:13:15
replaced then I can handle that and
01:13:18
that's what I try to do like I try
01:13:20
to now if if I am having to make those
01:13:24
comments that I I will say for example
01:13:27
I've been talk I've been this week I've
01:13:28
been talking about this Damen McKenzie
01:13:30
bow and
01:13:31
Barrett uh situation and and I feel that
01:13:35
bow and Barrett as he said we're leading
01:13:37
into the second test against Argentina
01:13:39
um after losing the first and I've said
01:13:41
that I feel that that Scott Robertson
01:13:44
should select bow and bear out of 10
01:13:46
he's been World Player of the Year in
01:13:47
that Jersey and he knows how to play
01:13:49
that position and he's a different type
01:13:51
of player than McKenzie he's not as
01:13:53
lateral he's more direct
01:13:55
and I think it'll help the way that
01:13:58
we're trying to evolve our game plan and
01:14:00
will help our shape but what I have said
01:14:03
is but that's not saying Damen
01:14:05
McKenzie's playing poorly it's just that
01:14:08
things are just a little off a little
01:14:10
just a little clunky at the moment so
01:14:13
why not see whether or not we can change
01:14:16
that picture for what the opposition
01:14:18
defense is seeing by changing the
01:14:20
personnel and and you can bring Daman
01:14:22
McKenzie Off the Bench you know similar
01:14:24
to what B and Barrett had done in the
01:14:26
English series before he earned his spot
01:14:28
as a starting player at fullback so you
01:14:30
know but but that's not of I've
01:14:33
reinforced that with information why but
01:14:35
equally I have said but that doesn't
01:14:38
necessarily say that Damen McKenzie is
01:14:40
playing poorly because he's not but just
01:14:42
things are not quite right and in sync
01:14:44
at the moment so I feel the change
01:14:46
wouldn't be harmful to us and why not
01:14:48
find out now you know why wait you know
01:14:52
you haven't given him a chance in the 10
01:14:53
Jersey since he came back to New Zealand
01:14:56
put him in the 10 Jersey and see how he
01:14:57
goes and I said the same about will
01:14:59
Jordan it's his best position en Foster
01:15:03
persisted and played him at Wing uh
01:15:05
Scott Robertson bought him on on the
01:15:07
wing at the weekend and I'm just like if
01:15:08
you want to change the way that we're
01:15:10
attacking and make Argentina worried put
01:15:13
will Jordan at filbeck where he's at his
01:15:15
most dangerous why not but why not do
01:15:19
something that they haven't seen before
01:15:21
and that is him and a black Jersey at
01:15:23
forette because we've got this IDE that
01:15:25
we want to play him on the wing so I've
01:15:26
been very open in that and that's not
01:15:28
saying C ree is playing [ __ ] or Mark
01:15:30
tiia is it's just that we need to offer
01:15:32
something different so I feel that if
01:15:35
that was done for me when I was playing
01:15:37
then I I I would accept that because
01:15:39
it's just somebody offering their own
01:15:41
personal opinion on what they're saying
01:15:44
yeah [ __ ] you love talking about rugby a
01:15:46
you why why do it for a job how how are
01:15:50
you going for doesn't mean that I know
01:15:51
what I'm talking about no no no no who
01:15:52
does how are you going for time are you
01:15:54
right yeah yeah I'm fine man that's ex I
01:15:57
gram Henry here a couple of weeks ago we
01:15:58
got to now twin and he looked at us
01:15:59
watch he was like [ __ ] there's somewhere
01:16:00
I need to be okay so we wed it up gra
01:16:03
another hinin and we yeah yeah yeah good
01:16:05
mate good
01:16:08
um yeah [ __ ] this is a great why never
01:16:11
coaching why you never get into coaching
01:16:12
you seem you seem very like analytical
01:16:14
about your own game when you're playing
01:16:15
and now you're very analytical about
01:16:17
other people's game yeah did you ever
01:16:18
look at coaching CL H manate your dog's
01:16:20
got his tongue out he looks like he
01:16:22
wants a sip he's thinking it's Friday
01:16:24
it's put any chance um yeah yes yes uh
01:16:28
coaching interests me uh and and
01:16:31
particularly when I see things um I see
01:16:35
them and I think I feel that I could
01:16:38
improve what's happening out there and I
01:16:40
have ideas in my mind particularly
01:16:42
around attack uh and to a degree defense
01:16:46
um where I feel that that I could maybe
01:16:50
give ideas and uh Innovation into the
01:16:54
game um because I've got a lot of them
01:16:55
floating around in my head just hasn't
01:16:58
passed out that way for me
01:17:01
um I've finished in '96 and um at that
01:17:05
stage Nicole and I were like we want to
01:17:06
get our family back to New Zealand um so
01:17:10
that's when I retired and came back and
01:17:11
started working for Sky simply because
01:17:14
they offered me a contract there's a
01:17:16
contract chat again um but that that was
01:17:18
security to get back to New Zealand
01:17:21
because otherwise all I've known has
01:17:23
being a player so that that was kind of
01:17:25
like right well that will get us back to
01:17:26
New Zealand get get our family back to
01:17:28
New Zealand and now we we'll see how
01:17:31
that that that um goes for us having not
01:17:34
been in New Zealand for six years you
01:17:35
know you know how it went we came back
01:17:38
we arrived to Christ Church three yeah
01:17:42
was two months later I think we arrived
01:17:44
back in just around August Late July and
01:17:48
that first one hit in September and then
01:17:50
the second one in February so that that
01:17:52
wasn't expected but um that was that was
01:17:57
the ability ability for me
01:17:59
to uh to make that transformation from
01:18:02
player into something outside of being a
01:18:06
player and for whatever reason that's
01:18:09
what I slipped into and and and haven't
01:18:11
had the opportunity to do um any
01:18:15
coaching since um and whether that's
01:18:19
that period's passed me by or not I
01:18:21
don't know like I see a lot of it now
01:18:22
and I I I see myself been able to do
01:18:25
exactly what I told you which is go
01:18:27
along and put the boots on and grab grab
01:18:29
the players and the key ones that I'm
01:18:30
thinking about in terms of how I could
01:18:33
um change the shape of phase play how a
01:18:35
couple of little um movements could
01:18:38
completely change what the defense is
01:18:39
saying blah blah blah blah but I I
01:18:42
wouldn't be doing that on a TV screen or
01:18:44
a or or trying to come up with graphics
01:18:47
and arrows and all that sort of stuff um
01:18:49
even though I do a lot of analysis for
01:18:50
Sky I really enjoy doing that because
01:18:52
that's probably that coaching
01:18:55
component of me yeah and brain coming
01:18:57
out but um no it's just it's just never
01:19:00
happened
01:19:01
and uh I do like the idea of it um but
01:19:05
at this stage it's it's never it's never
01:19:07
come across my bow um and I've been
01:19:10
quite happy I really enjoy working for
01:19:12
sky like I enjoy what I do you're still
01:19:15
basically feeling like you're nearly an
01:19:18
all black cuz you're going along calling
01:19:19
you all black test matches you got
01:19:20
millions of people all care no
01:19:22
responsibility exactly yeah exactly just
01:19:24
don't have to go through the the the uh
01:19:27
the the the bumps and bruises anymore
01:19:29
but um I still feel that it gives me
01:19:31
great amount of satisfaction and it's a
01:19:33
very cool job to have you know so I
01:19:35
think the the coaching thing hasn't
01:19:38
probably gone any further simply because
01:19:40
I love what I do now yeah yeah yeah [ __ ]
01:19:44
we haven't even gone to the commentary
01:19:45
side of things yet but that's um yeah
01:19:48
you you've done remarkably well at that
01:19:50
and you a handful of of very few people
01:19:52
that have done both like being a
01:19:53
successful all black and transition to a
01:19:55
media career and the the thing is I
01:19:58
think with rugby it's um by the time you
01:19:59
make the All Blacks you've been playing
01:20:00
rugby for 15 years 16 years whatever it
01:20:03
is um commentary you just start it's
01:20:06
like here's a microphone here's the
01:20:08
headphones where you go mate that's
01:20:10
exactly what it was like and it's um
01:20:12
yeah so we'll get to that soon cuz I'm
01:20:14
I'm sure that was [ __ ] brutal yeah in
01:20:16
the first couple of Seasons but first of
01:20:17
all um yeah you're you're in a strange
01:20:19
position whereas like you you played
01:20:21
under five all black coaches yeah I did
01:20:24
so
01:20:25
msart
01:20:27
Mitchell yeah Smith Smith and Henry and
01:20:30
Henry yeah rate them um first to
01:20:34
wor yeah well obviously the the the fact
01:20:38
that I've already said that I was very
01:20:40
open about the relationship that I had
01:20:42
with John Hart um he was still a very
01:20:45
good coach and he believed in me and um
01:20:48
like I said he pretty much had me as a
01:20:51
starting nine through that period and we
01:20:53
had a very good side and what he what he
01:20:55
actually did do um for the all black
01:20:58
team in the time that he had it was was
01:21:01
fantastic you know then comparable in
01:21:03
199 um six you know going to South
01:21:05
Africa and winning a test series here
01:21:07
the first time in all black history was
01:21:09
something no other coach had ever done
01:21:11
before uh that 96 97 team was amazing
01:21:14
and then we had 98 where we lost every
01:21:16
goddamn test match U because we had the
01:21:19
majority of those players from 96 97
01:21:21
retire cuz they were on their last legs
01:21:24
you know so we had a new team in '98 and
01:21:27
as hard as we tried we just couldn't win
01:21:28
a test so that that was a real awful
01:21:31
year for all black rugby and that again
01:21:33
doesn't resonate with me well as you can
01:21:35
imagine given what I've I've said to you
01:21:37
so uh and then then 99 obviously with
01:21:40
with the Fallout um for the semi-final
01:21:42
but um so like all of them offered
01:21:46
something different and got got
01:21:50
um I I guess rugby out of me you know
01:21:52
and good rugby you know and and uh it's
01:21:56
really hard to sort of sort of put a
01:21:58
finger on who who probably helped me the
01:21:59
most but because all of them had little
01:22:01
moments where they they actually made me
01:22:04
a better player and and I think that's
01:22:07
all that's all what that's all a coach
01:22:09
is trying to do create an environment
01:22:10
for you to be the best player you can
01:22:14
and I think they all achiev that there's
01:22:16
no doubt about that actually yeah there
01:22:17
was PL unfair question say right them
01:22:19
where's where's where's the it's a good
01:22:21
it's a valid question and and but they
01:22:23
all got different areas where they were
01:22:25
strong on that you know probably know
01:22:28
when when Graham Henry got me um I think
01:22:32
that he he didn't see a great amount of
01:22:33
future in me so he's certainly not on my
01:22:36
list of being the best that's for sure
01:22:39
uh because he he um I think he he didn't
01:22:44
see longterm in me he saw experience and
01:22:48
what i' done for the ORS but for him I I
01:22:52
think if he either was old enough to
01:22:55
admit it that I was a short-term option
01:22:59
um in in his coaching time with the All
01:23:02
Blacks uh so yeah then it just leaves
01:23:04
obviously um you know the John
01:23:06
Mitchell's Robbie Deans um Wayne Smith
01:23:09
um you know they all again all got a lot
01:23:12
of goodness out of me Mains selected you
01:23:14
for the first time so supp there's a and
01:23:16
Lor was tough man but he was a tough
01:23:18
coach but he believed in me as well yeah
01:23:20
and what what about um John Mitchell
01:23:22
weird dude Mitch No Mitch I um he
01:23:25
misunderstood by the public then yeah I
01:23:27
think so yeah uh it's interesting
01:23:30
because um you know we we we had a Mitch
01:23:34
is super competitive as well that's
01:23:36
probably the thing about him that people
01:23:37
don't recognize he was a hell of a good
01:23:38
rugby player uh and and he he was just
01:23:41
competitive you know but he was he was
01:23:44
raw he was an old school coach you know
01:23:46
so he needed good he needed good um
01:23:48
other foils around them as a coach and
01:23:51
and I thought Robbie was a good one look
01:23:53
at the end of the day they lost one test
01:23:56
match you know the I don't think we we
01:23:59
might have drawn one or we may have lost
01:24:01
one other with the two year in the two
01:24:02
years we had them but their record is
01:24:04
very good mitches and um and Robbies but
01:24:08
obviously we had this whole thing with
01:24:09
cly um we MIT dropped them controversial
01:24:14
most controversial thing Since U Buck
01:24:16
shord yeah exactly so that was huge and
01:24:18
so it didn't sit very you know didn't
01:24:21
sit very well with the country you know
01:24:23
that Christian Ken was dropped by John
01:24:25
Mitchell well I I heard um James
01:24:27
Marshall's wed podcast a couple of weeks
01:24:29
ago with um Mitchell's son on there darl
01:24:32
MIT the cricketer and he said he was a
01:24:34
massive C fan at the time and he goes I
01:24:36
didn't speak to Dad for a couple of
01:24:39
weeks yeah I think he wasn't probably
01:24:41
alone thinking that and some wouldn't
01:24:42
have spoken to him for for a lot longer
01:24:44
after that but no I I I think again
01:24:47
Mitch Mitch knew um what what made me
01:24:50
tick and and and he knew because he was
01:24:53
old school he knew he could get that out
01:24:54
of me like we nearly had a fight at
01:24:56
training one of the first training runs
01:24:58
we had him and I um cuz we were playing
01:25:01
like um what do you call it like it's
01:25:03
kind of like a transition type hybrid
01:25:06
game of touch um and and literally Mitch
01:25:10
was he he was playing CU you know he
01:25:13
wasn't long out of the game and he was
01:25:14
only in his early 40s whatever he was
01:25:16
and um he was like literally every time
01:25:18
he um take a hit up he you know someone
01:25:21
would sort of two-handed touch him and
01:25:23
it was quite you know
01:25:24
and he he would go like 5 met past where
01:25:27
he got touched like taking the piss you
01:25:29
know it's like
01:25:30
mate so um he did it and then he did it
01:25:34
on me and I said to him mate next time I
01:25:37
said make sure you play it on the mark
01:25:39
you know like you're getting touched way
01:25:41
back there and you're charging through
01:25:43
like you can't do that he goes do
01:25:45
something about it to stop me I said
01:25:49
what he said yeah do something about it
01:25:51
to stop me I thought [ __ ] you so the
01:25:54
next time he he came up he he didn't see
01:25:56
me coming I came from his Blind Side and
01:25:58
I just shoulder ched him my God oh my
01:26:01
God and cuz I had again I was like I had
01:26:04
the red Miss and then I thought to
01:26:05
myself [ __ ] I've just shoulder charged
01:26:08
my new all black coat what am I doing
01:26:11
what am I thinking like do I actually
01:26:13
even want to play for this team he's
01:26:14
even going to slip he loved it mate yeah
01:26:17
he loved it you can't of picked himself
01:26:19
up and went good good good like that and
01:26:21
then off he went I was just like well go
01:26:24
and what are your um you what are your
01:26:27
Recollections of the um the Wayne Smith
01:26:29
era CU I was I was thinking about I
01:26:31
forgot all about this the other day but
01:26:32
Wayne Smith you know the professor um
01:26:35
for what he's done on women's rugby the
01:26:36
last few years like he's considered one
01:26:38
of the smartest rugby brains ever um so
01:26:41
he lost lost a game lost a couple of
01:26:42
games and then questioned whether he was
01:26:45
the right person what happened there I
01:26:47
can't can't remember the full story he
01:26:49
just he sort of showed showed doubt
01:26:51
which in hindsight was probably the
01:26:52
courageous thing to do absolutely it was
01:26:55
kind of back fired yeah it's kind of a
01:26:56
bit what I was alluding to before you
01:26:58
know like he's incredibly good thinker
01:27:01
of the game and very Innovative not only
01:27:04
in attack and defense and you know we we
01:27:07
used to nickname him techno actually MZ
01:27:09
and I uh you know just cuz he he loved
01:27:12
he loved the technology and been able to
01:27:14
bring out you know like well not cuz he
01:27:16
was dance party he was always no he
01:27:18
wasn't not definitely not no the other
01:27:20
nickname we had from him was Mahoney um
01:27:23
you remember police Academy oh yeah yeah
01:27:25
the guy Mahoney with kind of curly hair
01:27:27
yeah thought he looked a little bite
01:27:29
like him anyway nothing to do with the
01:27:30
blue oyster in that movie um by the way
01:27:34
um yeah Police Academy referen say
01:27:35
you're showing your age yeah you are I
01:27:37
know [ __ ] yeah sorry about that um but
01:27:40
he he just if you the thing that the
01:27:43
thing with Smithy is though he's just
01:27:45
such a great mind of the game that to a
01:27:47
degree sometimes he just couldn't switch
01:27:48
that mind off and like you knew that if
01:27:51
you bumped into him in the corridor of
01:27:53
the hotel or the in the Foy or whatever
01:27:55
that if he kind of had been looking at
01:27:58
something when you're in your relaxation
01:28:00
time he would still grab you and say
01:28:01
heyy I've just been I've just seen this
01:28:02
you know what they're doing on scrum
01:28:04
defense you know you need to think about
01:28:06
this blah blah blah you know so he was
01:28:08
his mind was always was always going but
01:28:11
he just he loves the game and and he he
01:28:14
loves thinking about the game and and
01:28:16
again how how
01:28:19
to defeat the opposition how to break
01:28:21
them down how how to frustrate them how
01:28:23
to then be Innovative and show them
01:28:26
something they haven't seen from us
01:28:27
before all of that is part of his
01:28:28
mindset you know that's his
01:28:30
creativity um but that's what he wants
01:28:32
to do he doesn't want to have to explain
01:28:34
that to the public and to the media you
01:28:37
know like that that to him was time
01:28:40
consuming and I think that's just what
01:28:42
what really got to him in the finish
01:28:44
that he couldn't stand up there and tell
01:28:46
the public exactly you know how we're
01:28:48
going to fix this because that's beyond
01:28:50
them and the media uh he had to sit
01:28:53
there in front of up and listen to the
01:28:55
[ __ ] you know why did why did the
01:28:56
test match go transpire into this bad 20
01:28:58
minutes and why did we do this and blah
01:29:00
blah blah and he just didn't like
01:29:02
explaining it in that way he just it
01:29:04
just was for him it it was wasting his
01:29:07
time of what he's good at and he just
01:29:09
said you know I just don't like doing
01:29:11
this you I don't like having to get up
01:29:13
and explain the situation explain my
01:29:16
selections or whatever I just want to
01:29:18
make this team a better team that's my
01:29:20
job and and I want us to win and win
01:29:22
everything but I don't wanted to have to
01:29:24
get up and talk about that and justify
01:29:26
it all the time and and that that that
01:29:29
pressure for him was making him not the
01:29:32
person that he can be and he just said
01:29:34
you know what I I can see past that I
01:29:37
don't want to do this and it takes balls
01:29:39
to do that you know I think so and if
01:29:41
you look back with the you the passage
01:29:43
of time I think he was probably quite
01:29:44
unfairly treated you know yeah he was
01:29:47
people didn't accept that that that's
01:29:50
your they basically said that's your
01:29:51
responsibility that's your job that's
01:29:53
why you're the coach
01:29:54
by him showing some sort of
01:29:55
vulnerability like that it's like no
01:29:57
he's too weak not right for the job and
01:29:59
again this is this whole thing you know
01:30:00
you can do that as Crusaders coach
01:30:03
because there's a few people that are
01:30:04
absolutely live and breathe the
01:30:07
Crusaders and and they they won't accept
01:30:09
it um and and they want you explaining
01:30:12
but the rest of the country don't give a
01:30:13
[ __ ] you know the people in the
01:30:15
franchise do but when you're all black
01:30:17
coachs the whole country wants to know
01:30:19
and the whole country cares and the
01:30:21
whole country want to hear from you
01:30:23
there's a massive difference but there's
01:30:24
no escape from it whereas you know when
01:30:27
he's coaching the Crusaders we could
01:30:28
just get on with it and if we dropped
01:30:29
the game it was easy to get up and you
01:30:32
know few few of the media would care and
01:30:33
some wouldn't and some some some would
01:30:35
take satisfaction in it CU because the
01:30:37
Crusaders are successful but it's a
01:30:39
different scale which is what Scott
01:30:41
Robertson's going through now you know
01:30:43
like he
01:30:44
is he he he's hardly lost any games of
01:30:47
rugby in his coaching career you're
01:30:49
right what was it six six titles in a
01:30:52
seven titles um and he was equally
01:30:54
successful with Canterbury before he got
01:30:56
the Crusaders so he hasn't really had to
01:30:59
um fathom explaining losing very often
01:31:04
but when he did and I remember seeing
01:31:06
him after it was two years ago not last
01:31:09
year and he's a good M of mine and and I
01:31:11
I said to him champ you're all right and
01:31:13
he's like nah nah not happy not happy
01:31:15
angry but and they'd lost to the
01:31:17
Highlanders a game they shouldn't have
01:31:18
lost um the Highlanders weren't as good
01:31:20
a team but just had one of those days
01:31:21
out the Crusaders were slightly off it
01:31:23
was a tight game and the Highlanders
01:31:24
pipped them and he was super pissed off
01:31:26
and down you know about it and and angry
01:31:29
you know like this is you know we
01:31:31
shouldn't shouldn't be droing this game
01:31:32
and blah blah blah blah and um and that
01:31:35
that was a rare loss for him but again
01:31:38
he he very easily you can move on from
01:31:40
that because you're just having to deal
01:31:43
with that with within that little sort
01:31:45
of small circle of the franchise and the
01:31:49
players whereas last week you could see
01:31:52
the effect it had on having to explain a
01:31:55
loss to the
01:31:56
country and and and and and and it's
01:31:59
just different and and and it's not just
01:32:02
a few media people from Christ Church
01:32:04
it's the entire media of of all of New
01:32:07
Zealand with their microphones in his
01:32:09
face having to explain why the All
01:32:12
Blacks have been defeated for the first
01:32:14
um for the for the third time in their
01:32:17
history against Argentina and you have
01:32:18
been the coach you know it's a
01:32:21
completely different kid of fish and I
01:32:23
think that's what they struggled with as
01:32:24
well yeah you are good friends um so you
01:32:27
and Razer you played together and um on
01:32:30
your Instagram like you were in NSA for
01:32:33
a surfing trip with him for New Years
01:32:34
few years ago what would what what would
01:32:37
the past week have looked like do you
01:32:38
think for the old blacks like when you
01:32:40
were in the All Blacks if you guys lost
01:32:42
a game that you should have won you guys
01:32:43
were sort of punished the next week
01:32:44
right you were thrashed we were yeah y y
01:32:48
test test match training that's what it
01:32:49
was called um where the hit Shields came
01:32:52
out and uh the blood was spilled because
01:32:55
there had been a decent um review uh and
01:32:59
you know a lot of harsh words spoken and
01:33:01
and boom you know like into training run
01:33:04
pissed off players players playing for
01:33:07
their positions because you know a loss
01:33:09
always raises questions about selection
01:33:11
and yeah it's it's always a a real bite
01:33:15
um in in the week because of having to
01:33:19
you know front up after losing which
01:33:21
which is rare um so there was always
01:33:24
that uh feeling um what they are going
01:33:26
through this week I would would suggest
01:33:28
is is pretty similar yeah I don't feel
01:33:31
that ever gets out of your system that
01:33:33
you know all blacks don't take losing
01:33:35
well at all and particularly in their
01:33:37
own country and uh in circumstances that
01:33:41
are very rare in our history which this
01:33:42
is uh it has an extra Edge to it um so
01:33:47
yeah I'd imagine intensity physicality
01:33:49
at training run and um and again some
01:33:51
pretty pissed off players m uh and I
01:33:55
don't think razor shies away from um
01:33:59
accountability and and also you know not
01:34:03
not getting things right you know and he
01:34:05
he would I think fingered quite a few of
01:34:09
uh the the individuals and some of the
01:34:11
combinations in the team for for
01:34:13
dropping the ball and and being part of
01:34:15
the reason why we lost it's that's his
01:34:18
that's his way that's he's got he got to
01:34:21
be veryy tough to to to try and fight
01:34:25
your way through these
01:34:28
situations [ __ ] [ __ ] there so much to
01:34:31
poke around with um your playing career
01:34:33
but I we're moving on to the commentary
01:34:34
stuff it's been an hour 35 you're on
01:34:36
track to be the longest podcast so far
01:34:38
it's a tie with mat Watson and Dion NES
01:34:41
oh okay right well by the way Dion NES
01:34:44
he there's parallels with you and him
01:34:46
like he said sometimes in the show even
01:34:48
today like you know he'll get angry
01:34:50
about things that happened back in his
01:34:51
playing day yeah right yeah no he's he's
01:34:53
a good boy NY I know him quite well um
01:34:56
you know we we we do and did mingle
01:34:58
quite a lot with the cricket boys uh in
01:35:01
in our time um you know everybody kind
01:35:03
of if you like Cricket you pretty much
01:35:05
like rugby if you like rugby you like
01:35:06
cricket and equally both of us like golf
01:35:08
as well so in general a lot of common
01:35:11
ground there is a lot of common ground
01:35:12
in there and um and and those guys are
01:35:15
always really super friendly and uh you
01:35:18
know they're always really interested in
01:35:19
what you're doing and we're interested
01:35:21
in what they're doing so yeah I can
01:35:22
imagine that you know know that we were
01:35:24
coming on this podcast to talk about my
01:35:26
favorite subject which is obviously
01:35:28
myself oh so obviously
01:35:31
need halfway how's the
01:35:35
batteries you go on all
01:35:38
night um all right then a couple more
01:35:40
rugby ones then you see you're in the
01:35:42
fortunate position um you're very early
01:35:45
in your old black career like Colin
01:35:46
Maids was still the manager yes so you
01:35:49
know pine tree Ms I do I know pine tree
01:35:51
me one one of the one of the greatest um
01:35:53
definitely one of the most legendary All
01:35:55
Blacks of what do you do you have much
01:35:56
to do with them what are you yeah I did
01:35:58
and um I think probably significantly
01:36:01
him being our all black manager at the
01:36:03
time in 995 was really healthy for me uh
01:36:06
I didn't drink on that tour
01:36:09
um uh just just simply because I was I
01:36:13
was trying to kind of
01:36:15
find again my my identity my pathway and
01:36:18
I was trying not to bloody stuff it up
01:36:21
to be honest you know so having pin Tre
01:36:24
there and being part of um the the
01:36:26
management group was really important I
01:36:29
think for me because he was just this uh
01:36:33
iconic legend of of all black rugby and
01:36:36
all of a sudden he was walking in our
01:36:38
footsteps with us and he was part of
01:36:40
what we were doing and I it really that
01:36:43
that really resonated with me you I was
01:36:45
just like [ __ ] it's pine tree how cool
01:36:48
you please talk to me um so it was
01:36:52
really good but the the best thing for
01:36:54
me was him giving me giving me my first
01:36:56
all black Jersey cuz I got named again
01:36:58
out of nowhere for my first test we'd
01:37:00
lost the first one in
01:37:02
Mar uh quite comprehensively and we we
01:37:05
we hadn't played well and he gave the
01:37:08
team a real dressing down on on the um
01:37:11
the Monday before our training run and
01:37:12
that was a test match Monday I can tell
01:37:14
you that much uh and he he didn't hold
01:37:17
back um he he hit individuals he hit the
01:37:20
team so you weren't in the firing line
01:37:22
cuzz you hadn't done yeah yeah I wasn't
01:37:24
in the test team or in the in the
01:37:25
reserves I was just been in the midweek
01:37:26
team [ __ ] what does a Colin Maids
01:37:28
dressing down look like it looks uh it's
01:37:32
it's not
01:37:33
shouting it's it's a a sternness with a
01:37:37
frown um and not a whole lot of words
01:37:40
but the words that are coming out of his
01:37:42
mouth all have meaning so he's not
01:37:44
wasting them yeah um but but quite
01:37:47
brutally honest and uh no one escaped it
01:37:51
even Lori got it and when he when he
01:37:53
when he gave Lori um a go for as well I
01:37:56
was like holy [ __ ] only pin Tre could do
01:37:58
that uh so yeah he it was it was like
01:38:02
it's very real to be fair um and and
01:38:05
then yeah I got named to play and like I
01:38:08
was like oh my God you know sheez it was
01:38:10
Lor's last test match as all black coach
01:38:13
we lost in Mar here they pluck me out of
01:38:16
nowhere to start this test match but the
01:38:18
big like I said the reassuring um
01:38:21
element of having pine tree around
01:38:24
he knew what he was doing you know like
01:38:28
it really isn't an all black manager
01:38:30
place to speak about performance all
01:38:33
black manager is there as a manager you
01:38:35
know organizing the bus making sure that
01:38:38
the you know the catering's done and
01:38:40
everybody gets to places on time they
01:38:42
don't address ever the the performance
01:38:45
of the team but he could so and he did
01:38:50
and um that that that for me I think
01:38:53
really ground ground the platform for
01:38:56
the week of there was going to be a
01:38:59
massive um response after what he said
01:39:03
and and there was um but him him handing
01:39:06
me my first all black Jersey is
01:39:07
something that I'll never forget you
01:39:08
know and and he he he what he said to me
01:39:12
was was so what the old black Jersey is
01:39:15
about you know and to be presented the
01:39:19
Jersey by him I couldn't have asked for
01:39:22
it to be any more of an occasion than
01:39:25
than that one that unfolded in front of
01:39:27
my very eyes you know for for him to be
01:39:29
standing there and he is a big man with
01:39:31
his massive big hands and his big frown
01:39:34
and his big
01:39:36
eyebrows like like a brain he doesn't
01:39:39
waste his words and he and he called me
01:39:41
boy and he said boy I'll give you this
01:39:43
all black Jersey today um he said you
01:39:46
might only wear it today uh you might
01:39:49
wear it for many more test matches but
01:39:51
it's not yours
01:39:53
it's just yours to wear today and maybe
01:39:55
in the future and you are simply a
01:39:58
caretaker of this jersey and my
01:40:00
challenge to you is when you give it
01:40:02
back you give it back in the same place
01:40:04
that I'm giving you today or a better
01:40:06
place and if you've done your job if
01:40:08
you've done if you do that you've done
01:40:10
your job that's all he said to me you
01:40:12
know that that that was basically my
01:40:15
responsibility put it on it's not mine
01:40:17
like there's great All Blacks that have
01:40:20
worn that Jersey before me I straight
01:40:22
away thought of s going
01:40:24
um when when he said that you know I
01:40:25
thought to myself said go said going is
01:40:28
worn this jersey and and and that's
01:40:31
weird isn't it that I didn't think gr
01:40:32
bash who had woron it just before me um
01:40:34
or David Kirk who had won the World Cup
01:40:36
in it first person that's um went into
01:40:39
my mind with Sid going I thought this is
01:40:41
the same Jersey that super Sid going
01:40:43
were how did you even know who he was my
01:40:46
dad got named after him when he was
01:40:49
playing rugby yeah so they they used to
01:40:51
call my dad Sydney as a as and Sydney
01:40:53
going um he played halfback as well um
01:40:57
my dad probably would have been very
01:40:59
close to being a you know he was
01:41:02
certainly a South and rugby player but
01:41:04
he could have gone a lot further um but
01:41:06
but I came along so um he stopped
01:41:10
playing rugby but uh but they but he
01:41:13
played a very similar way to sidg uh and
01:41:15
then obviously uh you know Sid going you
01:41:19
see the imagery of the type of player he
01:41:22
was I kind of I kind of didn't I didn't
01:41:25
mold myself on playing like him but I I
01:41:27
did I was a similar style of player to
01:41:29
him so yeah uh for for that to be my all
01:41:34
black presentation for my first all
01:41:36
black Jersey um I was yeah very very
01:41:40
proud that it was Colin Ms the great
01:41:41
Colin Mees that gave it to me and his
01:41:43
messaging was so um sincere you know
01:41:46
like he was right it was just mine to
01:41:50
wear um and If today was going to be
01:41:53
that only day you know and you give it
01:41:56
on to someone else you give it on in in
01:41:58
a better or same place and and you know
01:42:00
obviously we won that test match
01:42:02
comfortably so if that was my one all
01:42:05
black day uh performance and that's all
01:42:07
I did in the Jersey Then I then I'd
01:42:09
completed the task that he had set me
01:42:11
but then you get the thirst of wanting
01:42:13
more once you run out there and being a
01:42:15
part of it but um I think my winning
01:42:18
percentage of my 81 tests is it's either
01:42:21
83 or 85%
01:42:23
um so uh over over 10 years so not not
01:42:28
bad it's good yeah same as Graham Henry
01:42:29
as coach oh there you go 85% over 103 T
01:42:32
yeah so I'm thinking okay I think uh I
01:42:35
gave it back in a in a better place done
01:42:37
the Jersey proud [ __ ] that's cool what
01:42:40
did you um swap many what have you done
01:42:42
with your jerseys you you you you kept
01:42:44
all of them did you swap some you got
01:42:45
them all SW yeah I did swap um I heard I
01:42:48
heard Richie mcco is a real tight ass
01:42:49
with swapping swapping Jersey yeah I've
01:42:51
heard that as well played how many years
01:42:54
do the All Blacks I played two years or
01:42:56
three years with Rich As in all black uh
01:42:59
and yeah I didn't see him swapping
01:43:01
jerseys very often I it only swapped if
01:43:03
he thought the opponent had um deserved
01:43:05
the
01:43:06
right I don't know I don't want to talk
01:43:08
at a term about the uh the great Richie
01:43:10
MC but de did you what what are they
01:43:13
cataloged at home have you got them
01:43:15
hanging up yes I I kept the significant
01:43:16
ones you know like um obviously test
01:43:19
debut 50th test you know 96 the
01:43:22
uncomparable one ones um British Lions
01:43:24
you know all all of those ones that even
01:43:27
the World Cup ones you know like all all
01:43:30
of the ones like in 2003 you know that
01:43:32
was after 99 losing another semi-final
01:43:37
was massively disappointing for me um
01:43:40
but I had I had attitude that year like
01:43:44
I was wanting to not have what happened
01:43:47
to me in '99 being dropped in the
01:43:48
semi-final you know um and I wanted it
01:43:51
to be a successful campaign I was driven
01:43:53
I was um I think skin folds were
01:43:56
something like 7% like I was fit I'd
01:44:00
never been in better shape um and I had
01:44:02
a really people won't remember this
01:44:03
because all they remember is what
01:44:04
happened which is us getting beaten by
01:44:06
Australia and knocked out of the
01:44:07
tournament but I actually got named in
01:44:09
the tournament team as the as as as the
01:44:12
best halfback in in the 2003 Rugby World
01:44:15
Cup so um you know I was really proud of
01:44:18
what I achieved in that in that um in
01:44:20
that tournament and you know even though
01:44:22
it's final loss I still keep that Jersey
01:44:24
cuz I remember what I did in it that
01:44:26
year even though it's got a little Tang
01:44:28
of disappointment about it but yeah no
01:44:30
I've got all the significant ones and
01:44:32
I've got you know I've got George gan's
01:44:34
jerseys I've I've got um Rob H's Jersey
01:44:37
I've got us FAS his jersey which um
01:44:41
which means a lot to me you know to have
01:44:44
have his jersey after what he went
01:44:45
through with mod nuran and um you know
01:44:48
George dran and I went out to South
01:44:49
Africa when y asked us to go over
01:44:53
um and he was wheelchair bound at that
01:44:56
stage and actually he couldn't speak he
01:44:58
was uh using a voice activation thing um
01:45:02
and to see the great the great yand
01:45:05
vasin humbled by um that disease but the
01:45:09
way that he approached it was incredible
01:45:10
but for the three of us nines to get
01:45:12
together you know um and and
01:45:15
share uh a bit of time together um was
01:45:19
was amazing I'll never never forget that
01:45:21
and uh you know like again um just a sad
01:45:25
sad sad story in in rugby that he's not
01:45:28
with us anymore but you know the games
01:45:31
and the challenges I had against him uh
01:45:33
you know so yeah I've got quite a few of
01:45:35
them I'm probably yeah gave away and
01:45:38
swapped a lot of my jerseys uh with with
01:45:41
my opposition because that's what the
01:45:43
game's about you know I don't want to
01:45:44
have 81 all black jerseys yeah what for
01:45:48
yeah exactly what are we going to do
01:45:49
with them so make one big one I don't
01:45:51
know you're super quill or something
01:45:55
yeah um you can see this from your
01:45:56
Instagram like it seems like you have
01:45:58
quite a good relationship with a lot of
01:45:59
the a lot of your um contemporaries you
01:46:01
know you catch up at different like H
01:46:03
activations or assah events or whatever
01:46:06
it happens to be but is is there anyone
01:46:08
that you're um I mean Time Heals most
01:46:10
wounds but is there anyone that you're
01:46:11
like just indifferent to now like you're
01:46:14
like nah I would if I saw you in the
01:46:15
same function I wouldn't even cross the
01:46:17
room to speak to you yeah that's a good
01:46:19
question I've never really been asked
01:46:20
that um to be to be honest like I I had
01:46:22
had some ding-dongs with quite a few
01:46:25
players that I never thought that I'd
01:46:26
spend any time with you know Lawrence
01:46:28
delelio Springs to mine and Martin
01:46:30
Johnson um English guys yeah yeah funny
01:46:33
enough but um and Justin Harrison uh him
01:46:37
and I had a real set to uh but all of
01:46:40
those George Smith does everyone know
01:46:43
the George Smith story oh he hurt your
01:46:46
ribs yeah when was that was one of the
01:46:48
world 2003 right yeah yeah he he he um
01:46:52
late tackled me and cracked one of my
01:46:54
ribs which took me out of the game I
01:46:56
couldn't come back on after half time uh
01:46:59
and man I had a grudge against him [ __ ]
01:47:02
honestly because it was late you know
01:47:04
yeah so he I got taken out of the Rugby
01:47:06
World Cup with a cracked rib he got
01:47:09
penalized that was all that happened to
01:47:11
him and I was just like this is not fair
01:47:13
you know he's literally hit me late when
01:47:15
my um my arm was up I've been exposed
01:47:17
and he's cracked one of my ribs and now
01:47:21
my tournament is over and he just gets
01:47:23
penal a penalty against him God I was
01:47:25
filthy about it like it took me a long
01:47:28
time to get over there and then all of a
01:47:29
sudden we're in Hong Kong and we're in
01:47:30
the same team over
01:47:33
the and uh and he said and he first
01:47:37
thing he said to me is come up and he
01:47:38
goes Mar have you got over that tackle
01:47:39
yet I was
01:47:41
like I said mate if I'm perfectly honest
01:47:45
no he goes oh yes it was a little late
01:47:48
wasn't I was like yeah but he goes oh
01:47:50
well anyway we're going to have a good
01:47:51
week AR me I was like yeah and then you
01:47:52
know it just clears the air it does and
01:47:55
and it's been the same with like I
01:47:56
played with Florence delelio and Martin
01:47:58
Johnson and and barbarians or and World
01:48:01
15 games and all that and just real all
01:48:04
rugby players are the same they they
01:48:06
deep down what you see on the field is
01:48:09
not necessarily what you'd see off the
01:48:10
field you know they they they all have a
01:48:13
competitiveness or a manner about them
01:48:14
on the field but off the field we're all
01:48:17
very similar and uh it's just about
01:48:20
working that out and and making the
01:48:22
effort you know once you do that no I
01:48:24
can't say there's anybody like obviously
01:48:27
everyone knows about Byron and byon ker
01:48:30
and I's rival rivalry that we had um and
01:48:35
oh yeah so you were the you you were the
01:48:37
you were the guy and he was like the guy
01:48:38
behind the guy he was the guy telling me
01:48:41
regular and telling the media that he's
01:48:43
going to get my jersey so that that
01:48:45
wasn't something that um basically said
01:48:49
to me you and my teammate I'm happy to
01:48:53
to teach you and to for us to work
01:48:55
together because you're openly saying
01:48:58
you want my jersey I feel like that was
01:49:00
the environment at the time right kind
01:49:01
of I get it it was less supportive and
01:49:03
inessive than what it is yeah of course
01:49:05
he wanted it but did you guys hate each
01:49:07
other at the time yeah sh yeah yeah oh
01:49:09
yeah and when we played each other but
01:49:11
but I so he was chiefs no Highlanders he
01:49:14
was Chiefs and Highlanders yeah and you
01:49:16
were yeah okay yeah uh and there's one s
01:49:20
I'll tell you this one thing and I I'll
01:49:21
admit this now so you're the first to
01:49:23
ever get this on on um on the record uh
01:49:27
there was a game um and I remember Steve
01:49:30
Walsh was the referee Highlanders game
01:49:32
down at um
01:49:34
carrisbrook and he was being niggly
01:49:36
annoying um andan he was playing quite
01:49:37
well at the time as well but uh it was a
01:49:39
real ding-dong Crusaders Highlanders and
01:49:41
uh there was an instance where he ended
01:49:44
up on the ground and uh I I was I was
01:49:46
still on my feet and he'd gone to the
01:49:48
ground and someone had flung him into
01:49:49
the ground and I was kind of standing in
01:49:51
the standing in the vicinity and I could
01:49:53
see the an opportunity to present
01:49:55
itself and I just didn't even think
01:49:58
twice about it so he was if you can
01:50:00
imagine he was on the ground and his um
01:50:01
his hand was like that on the ground and
01:50:04
I just I made it cuz you can see the
01:50:06
video footage of it cuz it went to the
01:50:08
judicial but I made it look like I
01:50:10
didn't intend to do it but
01:50:12
100% am admitting now after three hkin
01:50:16
um that I went you know what I can't
01:50:19
pass this up so I just kind of pivoted
01:50:21
around and when I stepped I stepped like
01:50:24
that on the front of my toes but then I
01:50:26
went Bo like that with the back of my
01:50:28
heel and I got the perfect spot which is
01:50:30
in the webbing
01:50:32
o oh my God and it just split split his
01:50:36
webbing right through there between the
01:50:37
the thumb and the finger and obviously
01:50:41
carried on like a por Chop on the
01:50:43
ground and I just pretended that I'd you
01:50:46
know
01:50:46
clumsily like stepped on him but I 100%
01:50:50
did that with intent and and yeah it
01:50:53
ended up at the J judicial because he
01:50:55
accused me of standing on his hand blah
01:50:57
blah blah and I was like what no it did
01:50:58
not that was an accident
01:51:01
but there you go adiss of guilt so yeah
01:51:05
we we didn't when you see if you see us
01:51:07
interact um when he came on um
01:51:11
substituting me uh which he did for 90%
01:51:14
of his of his time um we weren still
01:51:17
getting into cheap shots yeah we weren't
01:51:19
doing the big hug yeah yeah and then hey
01:51:22
mate you know if we actually touched
01:51:24
hands that was a miracle um but then I
01:51:27
saw him so this is going back to what
01:51:29
you asking me before and I hadn't seen
01:51:30
him for quite a while and he'd come back
01:51:32
from France and he was with his daughter
01:51:34
in Wellington after test match down
01:51:35
there and um fair play he came up to me
01:51:39
and uh I said hey mate how's it going oh
01:51:41
you back blah BL blah and he's like yeah
01:51:42
good and we we we chatted and then I
01:51:44
grabbed beer and we had a couple beers
01:51:46
and so yeah it's it's funny isn't it
01:51:49
like oh the just part of it's the aging
01:51:52
process say you realize you think what
01:51:54
is it all about it doesn't fcking matter
01:51:56
yeah exactly did you say has your
01:51:59
hand hopefully he's not the most popular
01:52:02
podcast in New Zealand he's probably
01:52:03
going to hear that so um unfortunately
01:52:06
that was uh that was something that I've
01:52:08
now admitted that he probably will hear
01:52:09
about yeah well he's um I mean he's he's
01:52:12
had he's got his own [ __ ] going on it
01:52:14
seems like he's dealing with some um
01:52:15
demons at the moment he is yeah yeah um
01:52:19
all right let's [ __ ] mate the rugby
01:52:20
Yarns are great hey by the way um um
01:52:22
you're on another podcast now called The
01:52:24
Good The Bad and The rugby with um my
01:52:26
mate Andy row and Jeremy Paul yeah yeah
01:52:29
it's a great podcast by the way yarn's
01:52:31
like this every single week yeah it is
01:52:33
yeah no it's really it's really good I I
01:52:35
actually it's a spin-off of the good the
01:52:36
bad the rugby the UK and I went on their
01:52:39
show a couple of times I really enjoyed
01:52:41
it orbe it couple of times theyve
01:52:43
ambushed me because um I've gone on and
01:52:46
in France last year had I'd had a night
01:52:49
out and I kind of turned up a little bit
01:52:51
Dusty and we're on this Rooftop in
01:52:54
France and uh it's like Mar can you come
01:52:57
go the bed yeah yeah you come all so
01:52:59
anyway and um I go on and tins is like
01:53:02
well mate fan your beer I was like M
01:53:04
it's 10:30 and he's like yeah you look a
01:53:06
little Dusty though so obviously uh two
01:53:10
two bears later two points later I'm
01:53:12
kind of like yeah spinning off in all
01:53:14
directions but no you say you say by the
01:53:18
way I'll just pause you there you say
01:53:19
tins this this is Mike Tindle M tnd
01:53:21
who's the husband of um Zara Phillips
01:53:24
yeah one of the The Queen's
01:53:25
granddaughter yes yeah yeah yeah no um
01:53:28
he's a great man T mark Tindle and and
01:53:31
Zara equally she's she's incredible she
01:53:33
loves a rugby and obviously been very
01:53:35
successful equestrian that but you you
01:53:38
you kind of see the Royals don't you um
01:53:40
from the exterior and you see them
01:53:43
operating and then I see tins and Zara
01:53:46
at the um at the royal wedding or
01:53:49
whatever the Queen's funeral and all
01:53:50
that and it's very you know you know
01:53:52
what it's it's all about proper proper
01:53:54
and everything else and then literally
01:53:57
you can be in a bar with them in France
01:54:00
or in Japan or wherever it might be or
01:54:02
in England um we even I know tins that
01:54:06
well even they hire a place out in Wan
01:54:08
and go for a few beers with them in
01:54:10
their place in Monica and they they're
01:54:12
just
01:54:13
normal Zara is like she's so normal
01:54:15
she's just like a she's like a Blok um
01:54:19
girl you know she'll be
01:54:22
and whatever if there's a drinking game
01:54:24
going you know um she she's just real
01:54:26
great company they both are so yeah very
01:54:29
easy to go on the show with them but um
01:54:32
it's nice for us to have an opportunity
01:54:33
to do a spin-off um of what they are
01:54:35
doing and like you say it's
01:54:37
just rugby Yarns previewing reviewing
01:54:40
the game getting guests on and just just
01:54:42
having a general CH chat so yeah good to
01:54:44
bad the rugby Australia New Zealand
01:54:46
version and um I'm actually really
01:54:47
enjoying it Tom to be honest you're
01:54:49
doing a great job so um your my M Andy
01:54:51
he's like the Guru of podcast well no
01:54:54
he's well that's what he calls himself
01:54:55
he does call himself that um but I was
01:54:57
down catching up with him last week and
01:54:59
uh there was like a barage of voice
01:55:01
notes you're a voice memo guy yeah like
01:55:04
three minute long voice memos and um I I
01:55:07
was impressed and he's suitably
01:55:08
impressed with um like the work and the
01:55:10
dedication that you're putting putting
01:55:11
into it and it um made me realize just
01:55:14
why your broadcasting career has been
01:55:17
successful cuz the same sort of I don't
01:55:19
know if intelligence is the word but the
01:55:21
same sort of eff or intelligence you put
01:55:23
towards your rugby career you've done
01:55:25
this to this new thing and it seems like
01:55:26
whatever you do this is just the effort
01:55:28
you put into it yeah I do yeah I quite a
01:55:30
I'm a bit of a perfectionist um often
01:55:34
when I get asked to go do speaking
01:55:36
engagements and I just I you know I do
01:55:39
them regularly you the corporate ones
01:55:40
and
01:55:41
and um you're asked to do whatever style
01:55:45
so you can either do a story which is
01:55:46
just Yarns and a bit of a funny
01:55:49
antidotes whatever it might be or
01:55:51
motivational
01:55:53
uh and if I'm talking motivational and I
01:55:56
and I often get asked about this you
01:55:58
know um about the
01:56:01
alls I feel they say what what makes
01:56:04
what what made and does make the All
01:56:06
Blacks so good and and I said that um
01:56:10
it's because as all blacks you're never
01:56:12
you're never ever satisfied you're
01:56:14
actually seeking the perfect game like I
01:56:18
reckon there's
01:56:19
been probably three or four four games
01:56:23
that I can remember where we were in
01:56:25
that 90% you know the one you remember
01:56:28
the One at Wellington the last one of
01:56:29
the last ones at Athletic Park against
01:56:31
Australia and it was a miserable old day
01:56:33
in the mud um crap and [ __ ] and um you
01:56:37
know we just hardly put a foot wrong
01:56:38
that day I think we beat them by 46 to
01:56:41
something or rather six and that's when
01:56:43
Australia was good yeah they were yeah
01:56:45
we just demolished them and there wasn't
01:56:47
much that went wrong in that game in
01:56:49
difficult conditions and some others
01:56:51
that you know that data there but I
01:56:54
think you'll never get you'll never get
01:56:56
Perfection there'll always be something
01:56:58
there'll always be even if you got to 99
01:57:00
there'll be that 1% that'll just
01:57:02
wouldn't have been quite right and I
01:57:05
think that's kind of what I'm like with
01:57:07
my approach to when I take on projects
01:57:09
or take on anything in life like I'm
01:57:12
trying to trying to do it as perfect as
01:57:15
I can and and deliver that perfect
01:57:17
performance or product or whatever it
01:57:19
might be um and I want everything to
01:57:23
be uh enjoyable for people you know it's
01:57:26
kind of part of my my motivation because
01:57:29
it's good to to have that lack of
01:57:33
complacency cuz complacency is a killer
01:57:35
man yeah it's a it's a good it's a good
01:57:37
way to be I suppose it's like having a
01:57:38
growth mindset like you want to keep
01:57:40
looking forward rather than like
01:57:41
dwelling on the past but also an
01:57:42
exhausting way to live your life oh it
01:57:44
is it is it's never easy no it's not no
01:57:47
but I think it's good because you it's
01:57:49
all performance isn't it you just want
01:57:50
to keep like you you see to me like
01:57:52
you've been doing this for how many
01:57:53
years now oh the podcast like 2 and a
01:57:55
half years yeah and you said the I said
01:57:57
to you m it's going really well really
01:57:59
successful you know you must be really
01:58:00
happy happy and you said yeah it kind of
01:58:03
started off you know a little slow or
01:58:05
whatever but then once I sort of got my
01:58:06
groove and now you're sort of right at
01:58:08
the top you know but so you're obviously
01:58:10
without knowing it you're doing the same
01:58:12
thing yeah I guess so yeah because you
01:58:14
probably would have listened to the
01:58:15
first View and gone yeah okay yeah not
01:58:17
bad but um and then you and then you
01:58:20
then you kind of know the level that
01:58:22
that you sit at and you don't want to
01:58:23
drop that performance level yeah oh you
01:58:26
want every every podcast to be the best
01:58:28
one you've ever done exactly yeah yeah
01:58:30
sh um we'll get into the commentary
01:58:32
stuff should we have a quick Priss break
01:58:33
do you need
01:58:34
a so one of break this seal so one of my
01:58:38
strengths yeah so uh is uh so all blacks
01:58:42
here um we still do and did have not as
01:58:45
frequently now I believe with this
01:58:46
current player is have you have court
01:58:48
sessions and if people have heard about
01:58:50
the myth of Court sessions they are very
01:58:52
real you know like it's one opportunity
01:58:54
where the team you do the game you're in
01:58:56
the changing room have a bit with the
01:58:58
opposition maybe go to an after matx
01:58:59
function whatever you get back to the
01:59:00
hotel right everybody be down in the
01:59:02
team room in 20 minutes you know so
01:59:05
everybody goes up puts their bags away
01:59:06
comes down and you get in a big circle
01:59:08
in a in a big room box of beers and you
01:59:12
just have time together you know and you
01:59:14
drink beers and you tell some Yarns and
01:59:16
someone's had done something pretty
01:59:18
crappy during the week or whatever and
01:59:20
it's just a real opportunity for for you
01:59:22
to as a team just to debrief but equally
01:59:25
just to have have that space together
01:59:28
without anybody else involved and have a
01:59:30
laugh and have a good time at the
01:59:32
expense of each other as well um but the
01:59:35
one thing is being able to have a good
01:59:37
bladder because you're only allowed to
01:59:39
go for a piss when the the judges allow
01:59:42
you to go right so I was a judge so I
01:59:45
haven't allowed you to go yet hang on
01:59:48
hang on no no no I'm joking but um once
01:59:50
you break the seal it's a but so that
01:59:52
and that yeah that's so what I yeah what
01:59:54
I um was able to learn very quickly is
01:59:58
is make sure that you um don't have to
02:00:01
get be put in that situation where you
02:00:04
cannot um control the ability to go to
02:00:07
the toilet and all of a sudden you're
02:00:08
going without being given permission
02:00:10
because if you do that when you come
02:00:12
back you're most likely facing something
02:00:14
like a a full Pint to skull or something
02:00:16
like that of punishment so consequen
02:00:19
don't worry you can go to the toilet I
02:00:20
won't punish you for uh
02:00:22
for your indiscretion of going early
02:00:24
thank you this is so much fun by the way
02:00:26
I um had Paul Henry around here about a
02:00:28
month ago we had some wine Eric Murray
02:00:30
one of the early podcasts he tuned up
02:00:32
with the six-pack nice um but you and me
02:00:34
I reckon we're going to polish off this
02:00:35
St tonight be right back yeah cool right
02:00:39
all right so the commentary stuff um so
02:00:42
you have this um illustrious all black
02:00:44
career where sometimes you get slated by
02:00:46
the media but you know you're there for
02:00:48
81 test so you've done a [ __ ] good
02:00:49
job then suddenly um you thrown this
02:00:52
media career I suppose because of your
02:00:55
like rugby knowledge and what you've
02:00:56
done with the old black Jersey but you
02:00:58
don't know [ __ ] all about media like you
02:01:00
know a lot about rugby um so how was
02:01:04
that that how did that criticism care um
02:01:07
compare to like the criticism of being
02:01:09
you know like an all black on the on a
02:01:11
losing side um I think probably the good
02:01:15
thing for me this is good and bad the
02:01:17
good thing for me was um I started to do
02:01:20
some TV work when I was playing
02:01:22
overseas so because Super Rugby is being
02:01:25
shown over there they kind of like to
02:01:27
get players that have played Super Rugby
02:01:29
on their panels so I started do some
02:01:32
panel work coming in 8:00 in the morning
02:01:35
in London the gamees being showed and
02:01:37
did that I I didn't really do any
02:01:39
commentary so what sky had seen had
02:01:42
obviously been seeing me on TV in panels
02:01:45
the majority of the TV work that I was
02:01:47
doing um so I think that's kind of where
02:01:51
they were gravitating with me but
02:01:53
equally they probably had heard me do a
02:01:54
couple commentaries so that's fine so I
02:01:57
arrived back in New Zealand and um yeah
02:02:00
that they have got me sort of set more
02:02:03
um on the commentary side of it uh
02:02:05
because they they obviously needed
02:02:07
somebody to fill that space so I start I
02:02:10
do start doing that but the thing with
02:02:13
my commentary is what I did get to
02:02:16
experience by living in the UK and
02:02:18
seeing the All Blacks and New Zealand
02:02:21
from
02:02:22
a far and a different
02:02:24
perspective is I saw what the rest of
02:02:27
the world sees because we can be very
02:02:30
insul about AR and all of a sudden I
02:02:33
saw uh Richie mcco over over the ball
02:02:38
jackling the ball clearly off his feet
02:02:41
and it's a penalty all day long and our
02:02:44
commentators just pretending that
02:02:47
they've never seen it and it's never
02:02:49
happened um you know and no one seen it
02:02:52
it's like he he if he does anything
02:02:54
wrong it doesn't exist if any you know
02:02:57
the there's a forward pass and it's like
02:02:59
that's a for pass and we we we won't we
02:03:03
won't obviously be able to um have the
02:03:06
the courage to to be I guess critical
02:03:09
because we feel there'll be Fallout um
02:03:12
so yet I've got the whole Pub or the
02:03:14
whole room or whatever of English Welsh
02:03:18
French whatever it might be I played in
02:03:19
all those countries going it's a knock
02:03:21
on I've just knocked the ball on um and
02:03:24
and so I got to kind of understand that
02:03:27
you've actually just got to um say what
02:03:31
everyone's seeing and not pretend that
02:03:33
something didn't happen and then that
02:03:35
was my mindset when I came back to New
02:03:37
Zealand that I I would be super
02:03:39
objective I would call it as I see it
02:03:42
but equally as what was unfolding in
02:03:44
front of me and and the All Blacks can
02:03:46
be human you can actually criticize them
02:03:49
because they actually have had a [ __ ]
02:03:51
kick exit it's like that's just not good
02:03:54
enough you know but a lot of people
02:03:57
don't like that because they feel that
02:03:59
you you're all black bashing it's not
02:04:01
that it's it's like I want the All
02:04:03
Blacks to win every test match I want
02:04:05
the Crusaders to win every game I want
02:04:07
newal and rugby to be the best rugby in
02:04:09
the world but when you're doing
02:04:12
television there is so much more going
02:04:14
on than just what's happening in New
02:04:15
Zealand and I feel that you can't you
02:04:19
can't deceive people by trying to
02:04:21
pretend that something that's um
02:04:23
happening in front of them is actually
02:04:24
not happening it's impossible to do that
02:04:27
yeah so I so that's the way I like to
02:04:29
approach it I also like to try and
02:04:31
educate if I can and I know that I get
02:04:34
lot lots of comments of people going you
02:04:35
know that's just the basics of the game
02:04:38
why are you talking just shut up and
02:04:40
stop talking but I do know that there is
02:04:43
some people tuning in for the first time
02:04:44
or whatever who don't understand so you
02:04:47
are actually trying to help them and and
02:04:49
and help them learn and learn about the
02:04:51
game
02:04:52
but yet the the store that turns in for
02:04:55
every Super game and every all black
02:04:56
test match it just goes I already know
02:04:58
that so there's kind of a you're never
02:05:01
going to a win situation yeah did you
02:05:03
get like guidance from anyone or sort of
02:05:05
coaching or critiquing no got thrown
02:05:07
straight into it pretty much like you
02:05:08
said there's the microphone this is when
02:05:11
you're live on a this is how you talk
02:05:13
down to the people downstairs in the
02:05:15
truck if you want to um ask something or
02:05:17
whatever um and always treat your mic as
02:05:20
life cuz what what you were saying makes
02:05:22
perfect sense like we've just had the
02:05:23
Olympics on TV and it's like if I'm
02:05:25
watching synchronized springboard diving
02:05:28
I don't know anything that's going on so
02:05:29
I want it dumbed down to me to the
02:05:31
lowest absolutely lowest level possible
02:05:33
and I'm the same with rugby as well to a
02:05:35
degree like I don't know what's [ __ ]
02:05:36
going on yeah yeah and I think what
02:05:38
we're trying to do
02:05:39
is trying I'm just trying to have
02:05:42
balance um but yeah you you never like a
02:05:46
player all I've done is just know that
02:05:48
I'm not going to always be everyone's
02:05:51
favorite but the criticism the criticism
02:05:53
early on like did it stink like there
02:05:55
was a Facebook group you remember when
02:05:57
Facebook groups were Facebook grp
02:05:58
there's one get Jus martial of skysport
02:06:00
commentary um I mean it's only 7.7 th000
02:06:04
followers so it's not massive but still
02:06:07
yeah that's it's enough of people um you
02:06:12
know feeling that they actually want to
02:06:13
go a step further than just offering
02:06:16
criticism to starting a Facebook page
02:06:18
but no I I I don't feel that that that
02:06:21
that's um sort of noise I don't listen
02:06:24
to and there's no point in doing that to
02:06:26
yourself you know like that's that's not
02:06:28
going to it's not going to help you and
02:06:30
and and it's not going to change me
02:06:33
where does that strength of character
02:06:34
come from to ignore that noise same as
02:06:36
when I was a player mhm like I would
02:06:38
literally go into a
02:06:40
supermarket uh you know or because it
02:06:44
doesn't always have to be a pub and
02:06:46
someone could stand right in front of me
02:06:47
and tell me that they didn't feel that I
02:06:49
was right for the job and I shouldn't
02:06:51
starting for the All Blacks or the
02:06:53
Crusaders or whatever it might be and
02:06:55
and I just say look you know I just need
02:06:57
to let you know and it's like well
02:06:59
thanks very much for that you go have a
02:07:00
good rest of your day you know that
02:07:02
that's just that comes that comes with
02:07:04
the job and um it shouldn't though it it
02:07:07
shouldn't but I guess they're if they're
02:07:08
saying it on their couch they when they
02:07:11
see you they feel that they should be
02:07:12
able to say it to your face um you don't
02:07:15
necessarily um have to deal with that
02:07:18
during your normal everyday just trying
02:07:21
to get away from the game but you can't
02:07:23
ever do that when you're at all black
02:07:24
and the profile that all blacks have so
02:07:27
I think all of that noise that um does
02:07:30
surround those situations including what
02:07:33
you said about cometry it doesn't um
02:07:37
waste it does it doesn't consume my
02:07:39
energy in time I don't all I try to do
02:07:42
is exactly what I try to do as a rugby
02:07:43
player I go out and deliver a really
02:07:46
good um seeking Perfection performance
02:07:50
in cometry or on the panel or whatever
02:07:52
I'm doing and and hope that um you know
02:07:55
I'm calling the game for the excitement
02:07:58
level that it's at or um what's going
02:08:00
wrong with it or whatever it might be
02:08:02
and and and people regardless of that
02:08:04
type of performance some of them you'll
02:08:06
never sway they just don't like you and
02:08:08
I think that's life like say for example
02:08:11
if I said to you okay we've got we've
02:08:13
got a um we've got a final of uh the
02:08:18
Grand Slam Tennis coming up we've got
02:08:20
federo versus Nadal
02:08:22
know you'll like one or the other for
02:08:25
whatever reason you know out of Interest
02:08:27
Who is it is it on clay or
02:08:31
grass it's it's on uh it's on yeah
02:08:34
actually it doesn't [ __ ] matter
02:08:35
nadell have you seen this biceps yeah
02:08:38
yeah true he's so handsome yeah yeah but
02:08:41
but people will people will have their
02:08:44
favorites regardless it's just it's just
02:08:46
natural human nature human nature and
02:08:49
and you you never you could deliver the
02:08:51
performance of your life but that person
02:08:53
you'll never convince that you're the
02:08:55
right person for them for them you know
02:08:59
yeah how
02:09:00
um yeah I I used to work in music don't
02:09:03
worry the dog's just trying to dig a
02:09:04
hole on the sofa he never gets it um no
02:09:08
he weren't I worked in a music radio
02:09:09
station for years and we had like a a
02:09:11
sports station in the building and I I
02:09:13
saw some like your many like exports
02:09:15
people come through and um like names
02:09:18
that spring to mine Monty beam Jeff
02:09:20
Wilson your old mate and um Jenny moffen
02:09:22
and one thing they they all sort of had
02:09:24
I noticed is this um like Drive uh for
02:09:27
like self- betterment self-improvement
02:09:29
and just to like accelerate the process
02:09:30
and learn the media game as quickly as
02:09:32
possible um I feel like it was probably
02:09:35
the same for you like did you you just
02:09:37
sort of soaked everything up and yeah I
02:09:40
think so I I think probably I'm a little
02:09:42
bit more of a um a feel person though
02:09:46
like like I I just if I enjoy what I'm
02:09:49
doing then I want to improve and that'll
02:09:52
just come naturally I probably I'm not a
02:09:55
researcher you know I won't go look at
02:09:58
other commentators or panelists and try
02:10:00
to maybe replicate them or try to take
02:10:03
away certain elements of what they're
02:10:06
doing and and add it to my repertoire um
02:10:10
equally like I'm you I don't like
02:10:13
rehearsals but we do we have to do them
02:10:15
with TV but you rehearse a game yeah
02:10:19
well um you know you do you have to
02:10:21
rehearse the opening right rehearse you
02:10:23
know the the you know the the sequence
02:10:26
of the ha how everyone's timing goes so
02:10:28
that you're not talking over each other
02:10:30
and then you kind of rehearse your way
02:10:32
through what we're going to put together
02:10:34
in a pre and a postgame show and all
02:10:36
that sort of thing so that you know it's
02:10:37
all fluid when when the time comes but I
02:10:41
don't like rehearsals because I don't
02:10:44
like premeditating myself I would rather
02:10:47
when the we're say we're commenting on
02:10:49
some sort of footage or the present to
02:10:51
ask me a question that what comes out of
02:10:53
my mouth is exactly what I'm thinking
02:10:55
not what I've thought about an hour and
02:10:56
a half ago in rehearsal and so I don't
02:10:59
tend to really offer much comment when
02:11:02
it comes to rehearsal and it might look
02:11:04
like I'm not interested but what I'm
02:11:05
going to do is not over think and and
02:11:08
try and um come up with an
02:11:11
answer uh given that the question could
02:11:14
change and the and the context of the
02:11:15
question could change as well CU then
02:11:16
you set yourself up to look a bit stupid
02:11:18
so I I'm more of a field person that no
02:11:21
I I probably I would say I'm not that
02:11:24
methodical that I'm more spontaneous um
02:11:28
and and I think that's what the game is
02:11:30
like if you tried to prepare yourself
02:11:33
for what's going to unfold in 80 minutes
02:11:35
then you're setting yourself up for
02:11:37
disaster because anything can happen
02:11:39
like no one expected Argentina to win
02:11:41
last weekend but it happened yeah but it
02:11:43
didn't change the way that I saw the
02:11:45
game and commented on the game like you
02:11:47
just called it for what it was you know
02:11:48
and and I think that that's kind of key
02:11:51
that you're kind of living the Moment
02:11:53
Like The Spectator is at the ground or
02:11:55
the person that's sitting on the couch
02:11:56
at home is like what they're thinking
02:11:59
like is is the now rather than than
02:12:02
rehearsed and it it feels I mean you've
02:12:04
been doing it such a long time now like
02:12:05
your commentary career has been longer
02:12:07
than your all black career now right not
02:12:09
quite but not quite it's yeah I've been
02:12:12
with Sky for 13 years now yeah I
02:12:14
actually had longevity with I was 17
02:12:16
years as a pro right so um I did pretty
02:12:19
well to hang in there for that long 36
02:12:22
me when I was 3 when 35
02:12:25
36 like the trainers were looking at me
02:12:28
and they were going well we're wasting
02:12:29
[ __ ] time here putting him in the gym
02:12:31
so I ended up playing bedminton
02:12:34
while the other guys are lifting these
02:12:36
mess of weights and all that there's a
02:12:38
little bed courtt and I funny enough I
02:12:40
played with Glen Jackson cuz we're at
02:12:41
Saron and him and I go play bedminton
02:12:43
cuz like mate I've been in the gym for
02:12:45
15 years before that there was no um
02:12:50
gains that I was going to get and to be
02:12:52
fair you start to Creek and hurt a
02:12:54
little bit and your bones are a bit so
02:12:56
going in there and trying to bench press
02:12:58
140 kgs and you're not going to get any
02:13:01
um massive increase from where you've
02:13:03
been so was actually quite clever you
02:13:05
know it's like well let's just keep
02:13:06
their mind fresh uh so yeah so well when
02:13:09
I was watching the bedington at the
02:13:10
Olympics I was actually you
02:13:12
know I know all about this game um what
02:13:15
about um some of the some of the things
02:13:18
you've said did you or did you tradem
02:13:19
mark like bumper
02:13:21
bu and yes boy and me my yes I did yeah
02:13:24
I um I only trademarked them because not
02:13:27
because of commentary or anything
02:13:29
worrying about anybody else using them
02:13:32
um I was going through a stage where I
02:13:33
thought I'd quite like to do some some
02:13:35
uh make a beer and a few beers and that
02:13:39
maybe that that um using those types of
02:13:42
phrases power phrases might might be
02:13:44
part of the brand work so I just did
02:13:47
that for that very reason it wasn't for
02:13:48
anything else to do with media or tele
02:13:51
or or any other part of life so yeah um
02:13:54
yeah well bom is not a word for a start
02:13:56
off yeah so are these just things you
02:13:59
were they premeditated or things you
02:14:01
just just came out of my mouth I used
02:14:03
when I was watching Club rugby back in
02:14:05
matara back in the day um you know I was
02:14:07
playing as a kid and then watching the
02:14:09
main game of the senior team playing and
02:14:12
um there whole group of us kids used to
02:14:13
sit in the Hedge and watch it uh when
02:14:16
someone got smashed we used to go oh
02:14:17
boom far like that but it's not actually
02:14:20
it's not a it's not in the dictionary um
02:14:22
so it just came out of my mouth when I
02:14:25
was commentating you know and um yeah it
02:14:27
kind of
02:14:29
sounds I don't know I think it kind of
02:14:31
sounds what's like impactful doesn't it
02:14:33
it's like a you know rather than pow do
02:14:37
you know what I mean cuz pal sound
02:14:39
sounds a bit weird to me what about Mi
02:14:41
oh my that's a that was a balls
02:14:44
up no no it was M it was a balls up so
02:14:48
basically what happened was and and this
02:14:51
this is like people thinking oh you know
02:14:53
you've you've done this thing but so
02:14:56
there was an awesome um period of play
02:14:58
and I remember it was at eeden Park and
02:15:01
I I went to say because I I didn't know
02:15:04
can you say oh my God like you know
02:15:08
because you know there's certain things
02:15:11
that can get criticism for words or
02:15:13
whatever that you use and I don't know
02:15:14
if if I was going to upset you know or
02:15:17
Blasphemous or whatever you know so I
02:15:19
went to say oh my God but then I my mind
02:15:23
went don't say that word because I don't
02:15:26
know if it's correct or not or if people
02:15:28
can say that even though we say it in
02:15:29
everyday life is it allowed to kind of
02:15:31
you know I don't know what I was
02:15:32
thinking but so I went oh me oh my I've
02:15:37
enjoyed
02:15:38
that but it was It was supposed to come
02:15:41
out but my but my brain brain went don't
02:15:45
say God yeah and so I went my
02:15:49
Mo wow I've enjoyed that you know oh so
02:15:52
did you only say it once I only said it
02:15:54
once oh yeah so many I put said on
02:15:56
Instagram you're coming so many people s
02:15:58
to ask him I thought it was like a a
02:15:59
catchphrase that you say often I've said
02:16:02
it a couple of times um since but that's
02:16:05
been very rare but that was just as a a
02:16:08
kind of when something really
02:16:09
spectacular I've kind of said Oh Me Oh
02:16:12
My I've enjoyed that and then there's
02:16:13
kind of the yes boy part of it but yeah
02:16:16
no that was VE very much a a kind of
02:16:21
jumbled word explosion of crap to be
02:16:24
honest and yes boy I understand like I
02:16:27
can see if you're playing golf with
02:16:28
mates and they have a good t- shot
02:16:30
you'll say yes boy I understand that um
02:16:32
oh what at the um Rugby World Cup last
02:16:34
year when it was this was quite highly
02:16:36
publicized you weren't selected what
02:16:38
yeah did that did that [ __ ] you off did
02:16:40
it sting oh it will always sting because
02:16:43
people having listened to this podcast
02:16:45
um will kind of hear the competitive
02:16:48
nature of me and and the and the
02:16:50
perfectionist
02:16:51
and and obviously the ultimate in rugby
02:16:53
is to go to a Rugby World Cup uh and and
02:16:55
Sky actually hadn't had the rights to a
02:16:57
Rugby World Cup um since
02:17:01
2015 so you know last year in France was
02:17:04
the first time that we we'd got those
02:17:06
rights back um so to to not be chosen to
02:17:09
go was yeah it's stun you know I I
02:17:11
wanted to go and I I felt that you know
02:17:14
the the is always um magic moments and
02:17:19
huge opportunities in the game and this
02:17:21
is one of them a Rugby World Cup um but
02:17:25
that that just didn't eventuate and and
02:17:26
Sky Had A team that they wanted to send
02:17:28
so uh yeah look I was definitely
02:17:31
disappointed about it um but you know
02:17:33
still still contracted so it it wasn't
02:17:36
the end of the world it was just um a
02:17:39
bit of a blow not to be able to go
02:17:41
because you know you want want to be
02:17:43
part of the biggest thing in the game
02:17:45
yeah do do do you get told why like if
02:17:46
you're an all black and you miss out on
02:17:47
selection you'd like to think the coach
02:17:49
would say this is what you need to work
02:17:50
on is it the same thing with commentary
02:17:52
um yeah pretty much yeah y obviously
02:17:55
when you're sending a broadcast team
02:17:56
you've got to think about the entirety
02:17:59
and and we had eight weeks I think it
02:18:01
was over there as as as sky as a
02:18:04
broadcaster to produce content and it's
02:18:07
not just about what we're doing on game
02:18:09
day you know we got to send back all
02:18:11
various um pieces
02:18:15
for shows you know Crowd Goes Wild um
02:18:18
social media pieces the breakdown show
02:18:21
was being hosted by over there so just
02:18:23
in the blend and the mix of it what sky
02:18:25
wanted to send was the team that they
02:18:27
sent and and they said you know it's
02:18:29
it's hard on you because you're not
02:18:31
doing anything wrong but this is the the
02:18:33
the team and the dynamic that we want to
02:18:35
send because that way we can cover all
02:18:37
of those aspects of our broadcast which
02:18:40
is just not one thing so yeah that that
02:18:43
was basically what was said and and um
02:18:45
you know it's like anything it's like a
02:18:47
coach coming to you and saying you know
02:18:49
you're not part of team this weekend or
02:18:51
you're going to be on the reserves you
02:18:54
just go okay well um I need to be told
02:18:57
Now by you why and how can I get better
02:19:01
and how can I improve so yeah that's
02:19:05
that's the way that I approached it um
02:19:07
and you know I still knew I was with Sky
02:19:09
um through until the end of 25 so uh I
02:19:13
was very fortunate that a broadcast
02:19:15
partner in superp sport um who work with
02:19:18
us very closely um s saw that I wasn't
02:19:21
going but that I could I could add to
02:19:23
their Dynamic of the team they were
02:19:24
sending so being not part of the sky
02:19:29
dynamic they found a space for me and
02:19:32
ironically George grian as well to be
02:19:33
part of their team so I didn't end up
02:19:36
going like obviously I wanted to be
02:19:37
there with sky but I wasn't but I ended
02:19:39
up going anyway and being part of a
02:19:41
really good um broadcast setup and with
02:19:44
guys that I knew and um and I loved it I
02:19:46
had a really awesome time over there
02:19:48
yeah yeah you said you seem quite a good
02:19:51
attitude with things like that like you
02:19:52
you know you take these setbacks on the
02:19:54
churn go away look your wounds or
02:19:56
whatever and then I do Don um like I'm
02:19:58
not you know not saying that I uh it
02:20:01
didn't you know have an effect on me
02:20:04
yeah you know it always hurts when
02:20:07
you're not um feel feels like you're
02:20:09
rejected yeah when you're not part of
02:20:10
the team that that that that stings and
02:20:13
it takes a bit of time to process and
02:20:16
digest and and and you know you just got
02:20:19
to recognize that you actually like like
02:20:21
a rugby team you are part of a team and
02:20:24
just because you're not part of this
02:20:25
particular situation doesn't mean you're
02:20:27
alienated from the team and that you're
02:20:29
not important to the team it just is a
02:20:32
decision that's being made for that
02:20:34
particular point in time and you've got
02:20:36
just got to process that you know again
02:20:39
probably me like I said earlier on
02:20:41
learning learning about my
02:20:43
competitiveness learning about you know
02:20:45
being being rejected or
02:20:47
substituted um kind of helped but but
02:20:51
the initial you know period was was was
02:20:54
was hard was tough and then you know you
02:20:57
just got to try and then um you keep
02:20:59
your head up and move on and look it all
02:21:01
turned out brilliantly for me anyway so
02:21:04
you know one minute you're thinking oh
02:21:06
my God this is did I just say oh my God
02:21:09
one
02:21:10
minute boy what
02:21:16
Bo one minute you're thinking life is is
02:21:19
um is is real [ __ ] and then you get and
02:21:21
then you find a pathway and and life
02:21:24
goes on yeah and was brilliant how's
02:21:27
how's you like how's your mental health
02:21:29
been over the years one you and I are
02:21:31
exactly the same age I'm like six months
02:21:32
older than you one thing I know is that
02:21:34
no one gets to like 50 without without
02:21:36
being kicked on the Dick a couple of
02:21:37
times
02:21:38
meally true yeah no mine's good mine's
02:21:42
good um I think you probably you build
02:21:45
up
02:21:47
uh a great deal of I guess um ability to
02:21:51
make sure that you you don't let the the
02:21:55
little things bother you you know like I
02:21:57
think
02:21:58
probably real Catalyst for me was 1999
02:22:02
after being dropped for that Rugby World
02:22:03
Cup uh and the criticism that I was
02:22:07
getting from the media and the country I
02:22:09
think that kind of pressured John Hart
02:22:11
into a decision that he he felt that he
02:22:14
needed to make without actually just
02:22:15
using his real good coaching brain and
02:22:18
going I'm not going to listen to All
02:22:20
That noise and he did um but at the end
02:22:24
of 99 with the criticism The Fallout
02:22:27
after the World Cup the loss and
02:22:28
everything I was in a bad place and that
02:22:31
that didn't stop leading into the the
02:22:33
the next year and I just I remember um
02:22:37
having the weight of the world on my
02:22:38
shoulders and I was listening to
02:22:40
everything reading the papers listening
02:22:42
to all the the the criticism and the
02:22:45
comments about you know my time is done
02:22:47
and all that sort of carry on and Wayne
02:22:50
Smith all people recognized it and he
02:22:53
could see that I was you know walking
02:22:55
heavy you know I was uh I I was I was
02:22:58
absorbing everything and he could see it
02:23:00
in me and in my mannerisms and the way
02:23:02
that I was uh behaving and um he came
02:23:06
and said to me mate you're right and I
02:23:08
was like yeah he said no are you really
02:23:12
all right and I was like hey all this
02:23:15
you know all of this um Spotlight on me
02:23:18
and all this chat about whether I'm good
02:23:21
enough and whether my time's done and
02:23:23
people criticizing my past and past and
02:23:27
you know my whether I was ever going to
02:23:29
be an all black again and all I said he
02:23:31
goes why are you listening to it and I
02:23:33
said I can't help it mate it's
02:23:34
everywhere like everywhere I go you know
02:23:37
yeah that was a different era like 25
02:23:39
years ago I know and I was like far out
02:23:41
man I can't get away from it he said
02:23:42
yeah but why are you absorbing it all
02:23:44
and I said well because it's in my face
02:23:46
and he said yeah but you don't need to
02:23:50
um
02:23:51
you don't need to take it all in he said
02:23:53
you need to learn and this is the key
02:23:55
thing he said you need to learn to be a
02:23:57
a filter he said so put put it all in
02:23:59
the filter and then he said filter the
02:24:01
good stuff that you feel is valid and
02:24:04
they come it's coming from the right
02:24:05
people and it's the right information
02:24:08
and use it and he said the other stuff
02:24:11
just put it in the [ __ ] tray out that
02:24:12
filter and just forget about it he said
02:24:15
because it's not going to do you any
02:24:16
good if you absorb everything you're
02:24:18
going to be a complete mess which you
02:24:20
look like you are now and all of a
02:24:22
sudden I just put down quite a few of
02:24:25
the poison pin you know just put aside a
02:24:29
lot of the things that I was looking at
02:24:31
and listening to um because I couldn't
02:24:33
help myself I was driving on the car and
02:24:35
radio sport was on and I'm like [ __ ] I
02:24:37
wonder if they're talking about me I
02:24:38
wonder if they're talking about
02:24:40
me so anyway I turned the radio on I'm
02:24:42
sure enough they were and then then then
02:24:44
you you know yeah it poisons you it does
02:24:47
clouds your judgment so I I eventually
02:24:50
just stop doing all that and all of a
02:24:51
sudden if you're not hearing it it's not
02:24:54
existent in your system it's not there
02:24:57
so you know and and as long as you got
02:24:59
good people around you they won't tell
02:25:00
you that they'd just been listening to
02:25:02
the the radio station or just read the
02:25:04
newspaper saying that you're [ __ ] they
02:25:06
won't they won't bother with that
02:25:08
they'll just you know talk about other
02:25:11
stuff so I think probably that's where I
02:25:13
I I built U my backbone you know back in
02:25:16
99 where I learned you know for all all
02:25:19
of that uh that's coming at you if you
02:25:22
actually filter it in the right way
02:25:25
you'll still be able to stay really
02:25:26
positive yeah what about um the Christ
02:25:28
Church earthquakes what impact did that
02:25:30
have on you and your family you you guys
02:25:32
you guys you love Christ Church but you
02:25:33
left and moved to Queenston yeah we did
02:25:35
we we pretty much they was the Catalyst
02:25:38
yeah it was yeah yeah and it wasn't
02:25:40
running and hiding um our children
02:25:43
weren't coping how how old were your
02:25:45
kids at the time eight six and four yeah
02:25:48
yeah my partner she was living Queen um
02:25:51
Christ Church at the time she like she's
02:25:53
still deeply impacted by it yeah yeah
02:25:55
yeah uh yeah had had a huge effect on
02:25:57
the family um and in particular when you
02:26:01
see your kids frightened you know and
02:26:04
you can't protect them that that that
02:26:06
really has a has a um effect on the way
02:26:10
that you feel that you are parenting
02:26:14
and the it was the aftershocks that
02:26:16
really you know like every time there's
02:26:18
an Aftershock the look of fear and
02:26:20
confusion on their faces cuz they got
02:26:22
stuck at school like uh Luchia my my
02:26:26
daughter who was four Nicole had here
02:26:29
when it hit but they kind of got thrown
02:26:31
in the car across the road and they were
02:26:33
lucky cuz we were on a hill in
02:26:36
Su um and literally just picked the car
02:26:38
up and threw it across so she had
02:26:40
already got her from school from
02:26:43
kindergarten but the other two boys got
02:26:44
stuck at Su school and obviously there
02:26:47
was there was deaths from rockfall and
02:26:49
that around and and but we couldn't get
02:26:51
to them and so they were obviously on
02:26:54
their own you know um so yeah very hard
02:26:59
for them because they didn't have the
02:27:01
appearance to kind of get to them real
02:27:02
quick and funny enough um they were
02:27:07
looked after by Jane Robinson who's
02:27:10
Scott Robinson's wife amazing yeah so
02:27:14
because we're all Suna people and she
02:27:16
was able to get there cuz she was on the
02:27:17
flat yeah living in the flat but we're
02:27:19
living on the Hills
02:27:20
but no it was a very very um significant
02:27:25
time in terms of looking at them and
02:27:27
just knowing that they weren't right and
02:27:29
that that mentally you talk about that
02:27:31
mental side of it um they weren't
02:27:33
handling it and we had the ability to
02:27:36
move but simply because we just got back
02:27:38
from the UK so we were only renting a
02:27:40
house so we had nothing holding us to
02:27:42
Christ Church um and we didn't leave out
02:27:44
of not wanting to support and be part of
02:27:46
what choss church was going through but
02:27:49
first you have to look into inside your
02:27:50
own front door and inside our front door
02:27:53
I saw three kids
02:27:55
completely um broken by what have
02:27:58
happened to them and they weren't
02:27:59
handling it and the more aftershocks
02:28:00
that happen the worse they were getting
02:28:02
cuz they were just rumbles and it's that
02:28:05
uncontrollable you know you can't
02:28:06
control that so yeah we we opted to uh
02:28:09
to leave and haven't haven't looked back
02:28:11
he had been in
02:28:12
Queenstown uh since then so that was um
02:28:16
completely different to where I thought
02:28:17
I would be when I moved back from the UK
02:28:19
yeah yeah um what about your best and
02:28:21
worst qualities what do you think your
02:28:23
best and worst qualities
02:28:24
are or let's rephrase that say um your
02:28:28
wife Nicole how long you guys been
02:28:31
together since um golly you're you're
02:28:35
going to ask me about how long would be
02:28:36
married aren't you no I'm not going to
02:28:39
wouldn't throw you a throw you a
02:28:40
hospital past like that so but it's a as
02:28:43
it's successful relationship you've been
02:28:45
together over 20 years right yeah yeah
02:28:46
we have absolutely it's amazing and by
02:28:49
by the way
02:28:50
yeah we used we used to kick around in
02:28:52
py like I I work through the plaza in
02:28:54
palas North one day she was working in a
02:28:55
shop called a spre and she's the most
02:28:58
this isn't an insult by the way this is
02:28:59
serious she's the most beautiful girl
02:29:01
I've ever seen in paliston North oh wow
02:29:03
awesome oh I'm going to relay that yeah
02:29:06
I obviously thought the same thing
02:29:07
didn't I so uh but that wasn't from
02:29:08
palon North that was from CH but but you
02:29:11
what would she say your best and worst
02:29:14
qualities um yes I think probably um
02:29:20
best and worst qualities are probably
02:29:21
similar to be perfectly honest like I I
02:29:24
enjoy as much as anybody a a good
02:29:27
socializing um situation like we're
02:29:29
having now uh and and a few beers but
02:29:32
probably um when you think about uh
02:29:36
responsibility and and that you know
02:29:39
sometimes I I get the sort of I don't
02:29:42
know the the better side of having a
02:29:45
good time um Let it go too far you know
02:29:47
you kind of like probably should just
02:29:50
recognize that there's um you know
02:29:53
there's a there's kids sport on or doing
02:29:55
whatever um but no I think when I when I
02:29:59
think about me as a people person it's
02:30:01
kind of then balances out that way as
02:30:04
well uh that that I enjoy being around
02:30:07
people and functioning around people as
02:30:08
well so and then a lot of my life is is
02:30:11
revolving around um dealing with
02:30:13
complete strangers which is a weird uh
02:30:17
situation to be in because you you're
02:30:20
literally having conversations with
02:30:21
people and um commanding their time and
02:30:25
they're commanding your time and you
02:30:27
don't know them so you're like small
02:30:30
talking big time yeah that that to me is
02:30:33
um that to me is kind
02:30:36
of a funny Dynamic of what I do uh and
02:30:40
and a lot of that is is some of the
02:30:41
corporate stuff but equally people you
02:30:43
see at grounds and all that sort of
02:30:45
carry on and they stop you and they want
02:30:46
to chat and ask you questions and and
02:30:48
that sort of thing so I think in terms
02:30:50
of one of my best qualities it's my
02:30:52
patience and everything that I've told
02:30:54
you defies that answer because it
02:30:57
doesn't sound like I'm
02:30:58
a it doesn't sound like I'm a patient
02:31:01
person yeah yeah uh but but I am um
02:31:04
because you know you've got to be um
02:31:09
have the ability to it's that it's that
02:31:12
um it's that 101 rule isn't it which I
02:31:15
learned quite quite quite quickly which
02:31:17
is you know you can you can have a
02:31:20
conversation with someone um and and
02:31:22
that can be good and the person will go
02:31:24
away and they'll tell one person that
02:31:25
you know um Justin was a really nice guy
02:31:30
and he took the time and you know we
02:31:32
grabbed a photo
02:31:33
Etc um you have a conversation with
02:31:37
someone and you say you know what you've
02:31:38
actually taken up enough of my time and
02:31:40
you've actually been quite rude so uh if
02:31:43
you don't mind I don't want to talk to
02:31:44
you anymore and they'll go tell 10
02:31:45
people and that's the of lay of the land
02:31:49
isn't it you can't can't win so you've
02:31:50
got to be got to have the ability to be
02:31:52
incredibly patient to allow people to
02:31:55
have their time but that's impacting on
02:31:58
your time you know it's like okay you've
02:32:01
now had 20 minutes of telling me why you
02:32:04
know you're not good at your job and why
02:32:07
you know this is going wrong and that's
02:32:08
going wrong but I'm thinking but I've
02:32:10
also got three people here that I've
02:32:12
been socializing with that you've taken
02:32:14
up their time and my time with them but
02:32:16
the minute you tell them to piss off um
02:32:20
you're the villain yeah the the
02:32:22
threshold for that sort of thing if
02:32:23
you're if you want know it's quite high
02:32:25
like even even if you have a photo with
02:32:27
someone and then just see them on their
02:32:28
weather they can be like oh he wasn't
02:32:30
particularly friendly no no but you're
02:32:32
actually you're not you're not part of
02:32:34
their evening yeah but they make you
02:32:36
part and then yeah so I think probably
02:32:39
patience for me is is is one of my
02:32:41
better qualities and then and then
02:32:43
equally as you've heard um my probably
02:32:46
my competitiveness gets the better of me
02:32:48
more than you think you know yeah still
02:32:50
still I can tell yeah it does it's a
02:32:52
blessing and occurs it is and you know
02:32:55
competitiveness can can spiral and uh I
02:32:58
think probably the more that gets out of
02:33:00
my system now the better you
02:33:03
know I don't know I think if you've
02:33:05
still got that at our age like 51 it's
02:33:07
not it's you know it might um sort of
02:33:10
dim a little bit but it's always going
02:33:11
to be there yeah it is but it also it
02:33:14
can lead you into a rabbit hole you know
02:33:16
and uh and you can sometimes you know
02:33:19
speak out of turn or whatever just
02:33:21
simply because competitiveness sometimes
02:33:23
can be frustration can you know so it's
02:33:26
like um but yeah patience and
02:33:29
competitiveness so patience good quality
02:33:33
competitiveness it's been great but it
02:33:35
can be a negative yeah yeah um what
02:33:37
about Legacy how would you like to be
02:33:40
remembered um there somebody that uh
02:33:44
basically was very grateful with what I
02:33:47
was able to achieve um
02:33:50
and feeling like what what I did in life
02:33:55
um was what the game gave me you know I
02:33:58
think it's very clear to me that what
02:34:01
happened to me in my in my youth in the
02:34:04
pathway that I was going down and then
02:34:07
that then that big Catalyst uh situation
02:34:10
the assault that we we spoke about and
02:34:12
then rugby grabbed a hold of me with me
02:34:15
having impact on that as well knowing
02:34:17
that that's where I need to escape
02:34:19
escape and and that I know that I can do
02:34:22
something with
02:34:24
rugby change my life um and and the
02:34:28
Legacy in that is is people seeing that
02:34:32
and knowing that they can do the same
02:34:34
thing that you might be down a pathway
02:34:37
or in a situation that is not where you
02:34:40
want to be but there are always lots of
02:34:43
good stories out there of people that
02:34:45
have been there that have been able to
02:34:47
turn it around yeah um and I feel that
02:34:51
if that's a message that' be a message
02:34:52
I'd like to give a lot of people you
02:34:54
know that we all feel like we're
02:34:57
sometimes trapped but you're only as
02:34:59
trapped as you want to be if you haven't
02:35:01
got the right mindset and um good people
02:35:03
around you so yeah I've always been very
02:35:06
thankful and and grateful for what I got
02:35:08
out of the out of the jersey and out of
02:35:09
the game like at the end of the day mate
02:35:11
I look back and I was the first
02:35:13
professional not myself personally the
02:35:16
people that I was with first W yeah the
02:35:18
first wave of professionals and I back
02:35:20
at my teammates in ' 995 9
02:35:24
'95 uh and and before that and none of
02:35:27
them got to live uh a livelihood by
02:35:30
playing the game you know like like pine
02:35:33
tree was telling me stories when I was
02:35:35
away on the tour with him in ' 95 um
02:35:39
he's like yeah they used to go to get to
02:35:42
the UK that took them I don't know like
02:35:45
12 weeks or something like that like on
02:35:47
a boat on a boat yeah
02:35:50
wow and he said they got a daily
02:35:51
allowance of I don't know maybe it was
02:35:53
something like three Shillings and he
02:35:55
said three Shillings or whatever it was
02:35:57
he said so he said there was a phone and
02:35:59
he said there always used to be a phone
02:36:01
um queue to ring back and he would need
02:36:04
to ring back cuz he would need to ring
02:36:06
back to the farm to make sure
02:36:07
everything's functioning on the farm
02:36:09
back in um te te yeah uh to ver his wife
02:36:14
and um verer and um he he said that he
02:36:18
would be standing in the queue but the
02:36:20
queue was taking forever and he did know
02:36:23
that obviously with with that money that
02:36:25
he could also go buy a couple of points
02:36:27
so he's sitting there jingling these
02:36:28
things thinking this
02:36:30
C and he said he must admit every now
02:36:32
and then he just decided you know what
02:36:33
I'll make the phone call tomorrow and
02:36:35
off'd go to the bar and spend his money
02:36:36
in the bar on the boat um but I think
02:36:40
you know the the again I talked to you
02:36:41
about timing and luck you know like when
02:36:44
I look back at what a lot of those All
02:36:46
Blacks rugby players in general had to
02:36:48
do before us and didn't get paid to do
02:36:50
it um that you know they they sacrificed
02:36:53
everything for for the Jersey yeah you
02:36:55
know and uh lot many of them costing
02:36:58
them their livelihoods to be away for 3
02:37:00
months from New Zealand when they're on
02:37:02
a UK Tour on boats and stuff you know
02:37:05
like man so yeah I think um you know
02:37:09
Legacy is is all about making sure that
02:37:13
you you
02:37:15
recognize history in the past that
02:37:17
you've that you've yes you added to it
02:37:20
but equally you hope that you teach
02:37:22
people that go forward that you know
02:37:25
behaving with respect to what's been
02:37:27
before us as the way to make sure you
02:37:29
look after that
02:37:31
Jersey yeah I reckon that's probably a
02:37:34
good place to end it mainly because I
02:37:35
need a piss again yeah do you not far
02:37:38
off what are we four deep mate this this
02:37:41
has been um incredible longest podcast
02:37:43
ever we haven't even like bought up
02:37:45
Andrew Mertens either the whole Mertens
02:37:47
Marshal oh yeah time hey um thanks for
02:37:51
being so generous with your time he
02:37:53
that's been that's been that's been
02:37:55
really great it's been really cool no
02:37:56
thank you very much for for having me
02:37:58
I've really enjoyed coming on it's nice
02:38:00
just to um just spin stories and not
02:38:04
have um the worry about where they they
02:38:09
gravitate to is it it's like we actually
02:38:12
could be sitting in a bar somewhere and
02:38:14
just shooting the [ __ ] you know and
02:38:16
talking about um you know the way things
02:38:18
have kind of
02:38:20
evolved for both of us in our 51 years
02:38:23
um and you 51 years and 6 months that's
02:38:26
good it's good I I um I like where I'm
02:38:29
made in life I I sort of think it's like
02:38:30
um yeah we're into the second half of of
02:38:33
The Game of Life yeah um but there's
02:38:35
still a lot of game left to play yeah
02:38:36
there is um yeah right now we're taking
02:38:38
you off putting Byron on no [ __ ] don't
02:38:41
do that don't do that no no no so um if
02:38:43
you do that you won't be allowed to go
02:38:44
for a piss there was the um the all
02:38:46
black career which is amazing the the
02:38:48
media side of things which is going
02:38:49
great for you as well um yeah I'm
02:38:52
excited to see what's next maybe it'll
02:38:53
be a continuation of the media maybe
02:38:54
there'll be a like a third chapter yeah
02:38:57
this is right yeah and you just don't
02:38:58
know do you it's an interesting Dynamic
02:39:00
of moving from like I said uh contract
02:39:03
to contract you know um and really
02:39:05
enjoying what we're doing with this
02:39:07
podcast and uh you know that's that's a
02:39:09
that's a pivot which is quite cool yep
02:39:12
Lincoln bio Lincoln bi
02:39:14
exactly and then equally the you know
02:39:16
who knows you know like like I said I've
02:39:19
I don't know if fully out of my system
02:39:21
coaching is is um is completely gone but
02:39:24
yeah well on that so um yeah Graham
02:39:26
Henry when he won the World Cup in 2011
02:39:28
what was he like 71
02:39:30
85 he's like Biden he wasn't young was
02:39:33
he he yeah hey Justin Marsh it's been an
02:39:36
absolute pleasure mate thank you so much
02:39:38
for your time thank you so much for
02:39:39
having me mate I really appreciate it
02:39:40
it's been good fun
