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Christian Callen about [ __ ] time welcome to my podcast it's taken two years Dom but I finally here I feel um I
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I went throughout our text message exchange because you've been um since I started in the podcast you've been like
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super supportive and you'll message me from time to time about a guest that you've listened to and what you think of
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it and my response is the same every time I'll be like Oh we must get you on
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you what's what's been your standard response uh well I tell I usually listen
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to your podcast when I'm uh probably not on the gym they're a bit hard to to
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motivate and get you pumped up when you're doing weights and that but I definitely put them on when I was on the
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treadmill so you know for 40 minutes to an hour and listening to some of the people you spoken to and man interesting
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um you know some of these stories are you know inspirational and some of the cancer stories
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and you know the one I sort of got me going a bit was the one the sisted um the D when she had picked the
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date like I was going far out man how amazing and brave and just to tell that story so I just thought my story is
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like like it's I've just you know played a bit of rugby and like just wasn't that
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interesting like I'm quite boring like know yeah that's that's what you've said
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like every time you be like bro I just don't think I'll be as interesting as
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some of your other guests um which I think which made me want to get you on even more because it speaks a lot about
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you as a a person and just you know I don't know the humbleness well yeah I mean I guess I've
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uh yeah I've never really put myself out there and you know I've always said you
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know I'd walk into a you walk into a room and I you'd just go stand in the
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corner and and just be that guy just like yeah there's just nothing special about me really you played a bit of
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rugby and that was it and you know you hide away in the corner and I'm actually
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quite happy with that like just it is what it is you know I want my I've got
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my kids and my wife and and my golf clubs and I I'm happy with that this is amazing I
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um Jeff Wilson uh came up to me in the um airport lounge about a year ago and he just said hey mate I just want you to
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know I heard the interview you did with my old coach John Hart and I thought it was really good um and I was like Goldie
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do you want to do an episode and he's the same as you he was like [ __ ] no could not think of anything worse yeah
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yeah I mean it's quite hard say yeah I mean it's quite hard to talk about
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yourself right I mean it is quite hard and I'd rather not for some people no
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yeah okay yeah I'll get that I mean it's like when I did I know that you said
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that you've um you've read the book that I did well I didn't really do the book
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someone else wrote it and I when they first asked me I think it was just before I went to
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Ireland and they um and they asked me if I wanted to do a book and I said really
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like man that's like going to get him blood out of of a stone like it's going
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to be quite hard and John maton to his credit he's not with us anymore old uh
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old Johnny boy but I mean he he did a great job and obviously there's a lot of
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interviews and a lot of talking to other people and and my parents I guess to their credit since I've started playing
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man right from the Junior stuff like have kept articles and you know now how you can um you can you go to games and
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you just get your phone out now and video like the old man used to have the big the big handicap the big camera VCR
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you know and just the video game they they just kept everything from from day dot so there's a lot of information
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there that I guess stuff that I don't know and stuff that I've forgotten so um
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that was a massive help and and now they actually they do it to my kids like anything that comes out that you know
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and it's you know School awards and all those all all that sort of stuff so it's
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pretty cool but yeah I just just do not like really talking about myself or whatever reflect well reflecting yeah I
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mean just all that stuff like I'd rather just sit in the corner if someone says
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something that you did i' say yeah no okay yeah that's just so cool it's it's
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it's it's really cool and really refreshing and part of me feels bad um that I dragged you up here Kicking and
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Screaming today when I wasn't wasn't quite that severe but you know you you
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and I we've got a lot of a lot of history and um I know that you this is probably your least favorite way to
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spend a day so I do appreciate you being here and doing this yeah well I've known
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you for quite a while uh I couldn't call you B because I've known you for quite a
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while but from the Ping North day so I mean you know I guess you know what I'm
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like and um yeah I mean it's like even at my wedding when you had to help me I didn't
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even hadn't even written a um written of do you know what I mean yeah yeah written the speech before and
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you had to help me do that and it's just yeah something that uh I've never really been I've never
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really enjoyed it I never you know that's why I was actually surprised actually when I did some I work cuz I
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just that just something that was no way man I don't want to be on TV talking
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about rugby or well I just just yeah I'd rather be on the golf course but you you
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understand like you are um like an enigma like to like there's so much curiosity about you there there's so
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much love for you and what you've done um like the amount of people that would
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say you you're their favorite player I said on Instagram yesterday you're
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coming there was someone that's got a a son that they called Kalen there was
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another guy that said has has ifos password's always been 1515 because of you like um you you must feel that when
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you're when you're out and about interacting with people oh yeah I mean yeah I've always liked to keep a low
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profile but it's really nice um yeah when people come up and whether it's uh
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more the mom and dads and said that you know I've met a few cullins around the
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traps and a few Christians and uh and all that sort of stuff so that's nice that you know when you play it and
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people love watching you play and I guess it's the one thing when you run out on onto the field and
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you know with no um social media or anything back then was people would come to you directly
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and that that was always you got the good and the bad eh but that was always really nice to say oh you know you're
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the favorite player and you know used to love how you used to play and so that's
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I mean that's nice and and even today it's I mean it is nice it's nice to to
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know that um people appreciated what you did and especially nice when your kids are with you and someone comes up to you
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and goes oh remember we used to play cuz your kids kids don't believe you what do you mean this YouTube now
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well lucky there is YouTube CU I said you know I always say my kids cuz they always um especially my daughter cuz
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she's into into the rugby at the moment loves it Dylan and I think I scored a try against
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New South Wales and I dropped the ball over the line it's probably the one one
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time I ever dropped the ball over the line and she always gives me [ __ ] about it and I said well I don't you you you
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haven't played 58 TV blacks have you and should have been more damn it should
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have been more um I've been looking for seant I just need like verification on
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this so you gave me this jersey um years ago is this the jersey that you wore and
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the the gold medal match at the 1998 Comm North games in kumpa possibly has it got anything on I mean most some of
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them have them on the sleeve I don't know like the all black ones yeah they have it embroidered on the sleeve but I
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mean sevens back in 90 I think this is 998 right when we won the gold medal they don't have anything like old
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school quite I just need verification because if I'm going to sell it on Jersey
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Hunter you're going to sell it my God and know one size fits all back then but
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yeah quite possibly that's um yeah that that could be that could be it possibly
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what have you done there was a time where was your family home in Tilly Street Tilly Road til Road in and your
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dad had like a your mom and dad had like a room and with all your jerseys like from early years yeah yeah even like the
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central Vikings the whole are you um memorabilia guy have they still got all the jerseys have you got some gear what
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are you do with them uh yeah I've got well when they moved out of park got to
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the Big Smoke and pumu um yeah obviously packed up the room and like to be honest
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like a lot of the I'm not no like so you go around a house now I haven't got any
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jerseys up on the walls or anything like that um Mom Dad they've got some jerseys
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and stuff in their garage but a lot of them were just pretty much put into um boxes and and bags and put
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in the um in the attic and then we had a golf tournament a couple years ago and um raising money for um the rugby
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foundation and uh yeah I just said oh I might have a few jerseys I might have a look have a
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look around and so I got up to the attic and like AR can they been in there since
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since they moved out of par so it could have been 10 years 15 years and pulled them out and um I was like far out there
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was there was heaps of them um and then pulled some out you know there's a jersey there that you know number 11
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obviously I'd swapped with joner at some stage and and he signed it so stuff like
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that was pretty cool so you know we poked that up for auction in the in the um in the golf tournament you know got
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15K from a from a phone bidder so that sort of stuff but was was pretty cool but I'd never I'd never looked at them
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never don't sit there at night going oh man look at those look at those jerseys
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so we we actually my parents just got online and actually gave away a lot of the training jerseys and um not not the
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plane ones I I just had had to folder them up and I took the ones out that I wanted like the first test and there's a
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few special ones that whatever they might mean something later on you know the special test matches and then pretty
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much over the years they've just been they're not in the Attic now they're
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just in a Cupboard and so I said to the kids you know the other day they just go
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through them and take whatever ones they want so you know have my boy one of them
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wearing a money somi one to whatever he's wearing that round and Dylan's
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taking jerseys and they've got some up on their walls and yeah so yeah I don't
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you're just not the slightest but sentimental are you not really no not really like I've always I always thought
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like I wanted to keep my first my first ever um first ever Jersey and then it's funny you want to
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keep your last one but you never know when your last test is going to be right um so yeah I think I I definitely
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have the first one against Samar and and Nate but that that's still there and um
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I'm pretty sure I've got I'm pretty sure I've got the last one but I don't know
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it might be in the bag somewhere and then there's there's ones in between
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that um and I've got heaps of like s afcan jerseys which are cool and the Aussie ones and you know saman Fiji I've
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got heaps of the other International Teams that we um that we used to play so yeah they're just in a bag [ __ ] there's
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um there's so much to unpack and talk about here um first of all nice easy question um rugby or golf which game do
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you prefer more uh golf and like yeah I don't know I mean rugby was cool right but golf is uh well you're
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you're obsessed with golf I I love golf but the one thing with golf that I guess
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unless you're playing on a pro circuit you in a tournament like I always say
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people go do do miss rug and I go well I don't miss the Monday to Friday and the
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grind that um that goes with it but what you do Miss is just that um that buzz you get when you run out in front of a
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when there used to be full stadiums when you run out you know whether it's Athletic Park or or um Sky stadium in
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Wellington and it's just that feeling you got like or when you made a big run
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or or scored a try like you miss that you cannot get that like I've had one hole in one and playing golf but you're
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with three other mates and it's just quite it's not the same like in a hole in one and you walk up yeah
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yeah you walk up to get your ball out of the hole and you get a photo and that's
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like it and then you have to play the next hole and you get like a double bogey after hole in one type thing it
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yeah it just doesn't feel the so you can't get that that's one thing you
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can't get back and that was man I used to love that that's that was cool
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running out in front of those stadiums whether as at home probably used to love it even more when you're playing SFA
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like the where the boys have just played now two games two test matches in SFA like that's man that's the best ever
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running out in front of 50 60,000 people that that want you to lose that's that's
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a great feeling yeah it's Adrenaline Rush that um very few people will ever get to experience um yeah oh I got
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goosebumps just hearing that that's so cool you see you talk about having a great run in the crowd cheering or
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whatever but you look at old footage of you like on YouTube there's like a there's one clip that's like an hour
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long and it's highlights of you try you wouldn't know that you're having a great
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time score try no yeah yeah that is true yeah I mean we got to a point there where yeah you score try and just get up
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and run back I was never one for um for show boting well even yeah even your your book life on the run which I
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flicked through again the other day you talk about when you first joined the old
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blacks how um you know you you were a little bit iffy about Jeff Wilson because he was known for his big TR
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celebrations and you look back now he was just like fist pumping it was not a it was not a huge try celebration I
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suppose for its time it was but yeah yeah yeah yeah oh goty I did want to try high five when he deny me I seen a
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highlight down in dened I think we were playing England and he scored a try and I you see me coming behind him with the
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with the high five but he runs off so yeah I wish see you no well I wish I was quick enough I to give myself a high
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five where I see some of them do today but no yeah I've just never I guess never been like that I think there's one
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point in our career when we got a bit of a um a hurricane Captain hurricane salute going with the hurricane boys and
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that was probably as far as it got in celebration and that was pretty you know just lowy it was yeah it was you doing
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at toana or yeah and then it sort of it got into the All Blacks just with the hurricane boys and then um in the 99
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World Cup when we played France in the semi-final and then um one of the French Wingers
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obviously scored a try and they they got ahead and end up winning us but I remember beating us I remember him
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running back past us as in myself tner and he gave us that hurricane salute and I thought [ __ ] it's uh that's the last
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time we'll be doing that so like he was taking the purse like giving us that one
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and I was going oh mate you I can't I've got no comeback here but yeah so I sort
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of stopped yeah sort of stopped celebrating you just score you try don't don't be a peacock and just don't be a
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peacock just get back and and get on with it yeah um so celebrity Treasure Island that's um that's part of the
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reason that we finally got you on the podcast um the lovely Emily from tvnz publicity she sort of uh Le a and
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organized this um yeah you messaged me at the start of the Year asking about Treasure Island I was like [ __ ] yeah you
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should go on it you go on it like you know when you get to our age life's kind
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of Samy Samy it's kind of routine do you um regret going on or are you happy
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about your decision you enjoy the experience yeah yeah I did I mean I like as I you
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probably know like I'm I reasonably shy I don't like to talk a lot I don't
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really like crowds I don't really like new people um don't really like the
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bush you know like the couch and watching a bit of Netflix and just yeah sort of well what would
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you say the Comforts of home you know like it's so that this I've been asked
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before like I got asked a year before um and like the guy that text me I pretty much what within 10 seconds just no
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straight back and he laughed and he said yeah I thought you would say that and then this year just with a few things
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that have gone on with um you know in the family and my wife's brother and um
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I guess the kids at at an age and so I asked him and um yeah they were all sort of
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pushing me towards it then obviously i' I knew that you guys have been on it and
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and kby had been on it so just got hold of a few people and and just said what do you reckon and they said yeah yeah no
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it's I me go for it so yeah I wasn't I wasn't overly looking forward to it like I was really under
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appeared um how can you prepare for it though other than watching old yeah well I never I didn't really I
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watched bits and pieces of it and didn't yes I I kind of I knew but I didn't know
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but um you know I was like they send you the list there of what you can take on the island there's no like branding and
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that sort of [ __ ] and like all my clothes are like whatever it's sub to or
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branding I was like so have to go down to henin's and buy t- so so I seriously
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turned up with a suitcase full of gear and then half the [ __ ] I couldn't take and then I
00:17:01
got a army army sack and I it was half for was had no clothes had crocked jandals out on the first day the um the
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tongue on them broke so like the B JP is one of his jandals and so I was just had
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I was very underprepared for what was uh yeah what was going to happen but by the
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end of it I suppose when this comes out people might know how we all went is that I don't know well I um yeah yeah
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this is we're recording this on the 10th of September it'll probably come out in
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a couple of weeks so the show's the show will be on for a while um so I've got no
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idea and you're signing da so you can't say anything anyway but I I've said to
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people I think Christian will go will go all right because um you're very you're
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very measured and level-headed like you don't get you don't see the Red Mist but
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you don't get too down either you're easy to be around uh physically you're
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still very fit um challeng is you're smarter than what anyone would ever give
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you credit for you love a good puzzle and some some puzzles yeah some puzzles some other puzzles yeah no I mean I yeah
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I mean I was I mean he yeah requires a bit of luck though I guess a bit of luck and yeah but that's probably one thing I
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I said you before I went on like yeah I am pretty pretty calm and don't get too
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wound up and don't get too down and just stay out of trouble and you know even
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though I don't like a lot of people like I I can get on with people because we've
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sort of been in that in that environment where yeah you are you meet a lot of people and
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do you know what I mean and you just you can get on to and some people like I have kept in contact with um in AR other
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people you just you know if you if they're not you then you just but when you're in the environment you can you
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can get on to get on so I I mean I was pretty yeah and just stay out of trouble don't don't cuz what I know about all
00:18:48
these shows man you get into drama and then that's when uh the beginning of the
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end that's when it sh happens yeah um so what does life look like these days what
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what like what's average day on average week do you have a job I don't I don't
00:19:03
have a job uh yeah it's really it's really interesting know like so when I
00:19:08
retired and come I came back from Ireland and and I just said all man I just want to take a year off cuz I was
00:19:14
[ __ ] like my body was I was I was done like my body was ankle back shoulder knee just everything
00:19:23
that could possibly feel s was was s and that's yeah waking up every every day uh
00:19:30
for the last year in Island like limping to the toilet and strapping up ankles and just trying to grind through I knew
00:19:36
that it was was pretty much done so came home and just had a year off and like Through The Years though we bought a bit
00:19:43
of property and I got a um partnership and and company with a good MWI Dave monery and so we had properties
00:19:51
and then ended up buying commercial property so we sort of dabble in that and um yeah I wasn't really looking to
00:19:59
work or to to do anything I just needed a year to get my body right and then um because you were still young a like 30
00:20:06
31 uh2 I think when I finished I was like 33 had a body of probably like a 50y old um yeah then come back and then uh
00:20:15
look uh I must have had we must have had obviously practicing for kids and that and then and then they just started
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popping out well I didn't pop them out but they started coming out so we pretty
00:20:27
much teamwork yeah we and then yeah then it sort of we had four kids and and five
00:20:32
years so and then yeah I just really that was probably a big a big thing for us was
00:20:38
like they were all young and um yeah and just sort of looked after the kids and then I think Sky came along at some
00:20:45
stage and did a bit of Sky stuff and so I've done bits and pieces went through
00:20:49
did a real estate stuff and I I started off selling real estate and commercial stuff for property Brokers and now um
00:20:56
that wasn't my cup of tea but do Ambassador work work for property Brokers so yeah I'm
00:21:02
on I'm at the stage now though where yeah some weeks I get a little bit bored
00:21:08
until Friday you know when we know golf is on Friday so I am I am looking around
00:21:13
but I just don't know I just don't know what I just don't know what that
00:21:17
is um yeah and I know you know guys today when they're through their rugby careers like they they prepare you now
00:21:25
to what happens when you come out of footy and is it's it's a real thing
00:21:30
right it's um we were the we were the New Age Pro players and the first ones
00:21:35
to to come out of and I've learned a lot since man we retired so it's you so
00:21:41
you're not so you will get into the rugby stuff but your 96 was like the sort of year that rugby went
00:21:45
professional and it was sort of the year that you blew up so in terms of um the financial side of things you could not
00:21:51
could not have timed your career any better and I suppose like financial literacy is one part of that um puzzle
00:21:56
as a professional player which um a lot of your generation didn't get right but
00:22:00
you you did um but there's yeah there's other parts of that puzzle about life
00:22:05
post rugby just finding that sort of purpose yeah yeah and I mean and it's it's tough
00:22:12
because cuz at one point yours your something you're earning money and you're with the boys every day and
00:22:16
you're training and it's all really easy and then like seriously when it stops it
00:22:22
it stops like it's gone see later someone else it's like you're like an
00:22:27
old chair that they just throw out and then the next guy comes in that's pretty much how it how it was back then
00:22:34
which is that's just how it is I know things change over the over time and but we were very new to that Pro
00:22:41
rugby I mean it's you know 96 it was a it was pretty much professional but still very much the amateur amateur
00:22:49
thinking Best of Both Worlds yeah yeah so I mean I was I'd moved to palon North
00:22:54
I move moved out of home and I was up there and um was living with a a guy a family that was part of the the club and
00:23:01
then I went out flatting and I was flatting with these three chicks and like I was having corn flakes for dinner
00:23:09
and Chinese that was down the road like you know but I was a pro I was I just signed a contract I was working for the
00:23:16
man Rugby Union on 160 bucks a week and then what I think the one of the first contracts after
00:23:23
the after the 95 World Cup Russia and Jo Hobs and that were going around the country to um cuz obviously the other
00:23:30
competing um with rot Murdoch and all that were trying to start up another league so nzr we're going around signing
00:23:37
up all these young fellas so my I went from 160 a week to 160 I think it was 160 Grand a year or something like that
00:23:44
so yeah I mean my corn flakes turned into Chinese and some other stuff but yeah but we never really knew I was
00:23:51
lucky that I had my parents and a few other people that I met along the way that yeah we I lived a pretty simple
00:23:58
life I thought like you got a car from Ford so you didn't need to buy a car yeah I was
00:24:04
renting um and then I ended up buying a house in paly that yeah you you you bought a house in hu which is like the
00:24:10
um the Remy weer of pal North not bad for like a 19y old yeah yeah so I mean I don't know but I mean could I done that
00:24:16
without my parents and some other good mates along the way I don't know I don't
00:24:20
know yeah I don't know if I would have gone out and buying big big flash cars
00:24:23
or anything like that but yeah just we're on the road of day playing sevens and and 15s and so it's hard to I think
00:24:31
it was hard to spend money when you were applying yeah but you you were my recollection of that time is you were
00:24:36
never you were never flashy so you had this house in Haku um but you had from memory like a sofa big TV like very love
00:24:44
the TV it's like a 50-in TV but not like a frame one that hangs on a wall now
00:24:48
like one that was probably 500 kilos like a yeah I remember those ones and maybe a maybe a PlayStation one or crash
00:24:54
Panda Co crash Panda Co yeah yeah yeah and um in terms of yeah you were never wasteful
00:25:00
with your money as well which I'm guessing came from your upbringing or on I don't yeah I I can think of a couple
00:25:06
of stories can you well there was one time this must have been like maybe year one or year two in the a where you had
00:25:12
um your girlfriend that you met in South Africa and this is when maybe cell phones first came out I remember one
00:25:18
time like you drove from py to Wellington and you were talking on the phone to her the whole way and this is
00:25:24
when phone calls were probably like eight bucks a minute or something is that right good memory Don we can cut
00:25:30
this that out yeah well yeah I know yeah so when when people approach you now like what
00:25:36
what do they like what do they say what do they talk about do they talk about the John Mitchell thing do they talk
00:25:41
about the impact um you know your head on their life and how you you're the favorite all black of all time yeah bit
00:25:47
bit of bit of everything really I mean I'm over the John Mitchell stuff really
00:25:53
that's taken a while but I mean cut that yeah oh look I mean it was a long time
00:25:58
yeah yeah yeah but I mean people are really people are really good I mean it's um and I guess the good thing
00:26:05
about like all the Social Media stuff is that the YouTube and that parents that used to like you show their kids and
00:26:12
they go watch this guy play and then kids you get kids that and you go like man they would they wouldn't know they
00:26:18
they wouldn't know like I I don't mind people go oh you know he doesn't nice
00:26:22
what man I played 25 years ago like it doesn't actually worry me like but you
00:26:26
know they go oh we showed them the YouTube stuff so I think that's that's pretty cool so
00:26:31
most people are pretty good so you take I take time out and talk to most I talk to pretty much everyone that wants to
00:26:37
have a chat and um and be reasonably friendly it's yeah most people are good
00:26:44
you've got yeah yeah yeah does the conversation of the tone change if it's
00:26:47
evening and people are drinking yeah yeah yeah which yeah yeah which is it still it would still mostly be positive
00:26:54
I guess but people just don't know boundaries at that point yeah yeah yeah that's right you with your mates or you
00:26:59
not that I go out a lot to be honest like I'm not a big um I'm not a big uh
00:27:05
big drinker I mean yeah it's it's funny like probably like a lot of new zealanders like we I'm I'm a bit of a
00:27:14
Binger and probably everything whether that's watching Netflix shows or or having beers like I just when you when
00:27:21
you go you go and when you when I don't I don't like I like I could go months
00:27:26
and months without drinking I don't I don't necessarily like the tast I don't
00:27:29
like the taste of alcohol I only drink to sort of be sociable if your mates are having a few beers in okay I'll have
00:27:34
some but I'd rather have a a coffee or a or a Diet Coke yep don't I don't drink
00:27:40
at home um yeah but obviously you get you get a little bit braver when you drink so I can understand people coming
00:27:48
up and when you're doing something and they they come up and say stuff it's
00:27:52
like M yeah but they just don't um yeah they don't they sort of lose that um
00:27:56
ability to sense know when when they're taking up tooo much of your time yeah
00:28:00
yeah yeah like like 5 minutes is quite a good time in it like anything long than
00:28:05
that like but I've got some pretty good mates that will sort of give it the old
00:28:08
mate you've been here long enough move on yeah that's cool so let's talk about the early years so like were
00:28:15
you always good like your dad was one of your first coaches e he was a he was a hard coach uh yeah well it's just old
00:28:23
school right like um was I always good like like like people at um like primary school age intermediate age maybe the
00:28:30
early years of um high school you know were you sort of ear Mark to be like an all black uh don't think so like my
00:28:37
brother was pretty good um so he was a couple years older than me uh so yeah I guess back then
00:28:46
like yeah like I used to have to play cuz we work with like you know the car and on the S days um so I just play on
00:28:54
the older team play on my brother's team so I always got put on the front row to
00:28:57
St of trouble and he was in the backs and he was always the one scoring the tries
00:29:02
and um you know I'd run out the middle of the field and he'd you know give me
00:29:06
little little lollipops to score and um so so he was the better yeah he was a way better player like naturally
00:29:14
naturally tall tall fast you know aggressive all that sort of stuff um where I just sort of I was probably had
00:29:23
ability but followed just cuz I was I was always smaller I was always cuz I was playing two years above my grade
00:29:31
right so but you could do that back then you could tackle at 5 years old and that
00:29:34
sort of stuff you can't do that now but yeah so and then I guess over time where um I don't know what it was mate
00:29:43
to be honest like I I'd go down the park by myself with my one leather ball and
00:29:47
and kick around and and train and do that stuff where I guess Shane he wanted a career or he he was
00:29:56
doing other stuff like he but I've no doubt we had a with had a couple guys living in P my brother and another guy
00:30:03
darl Cherry who he passed away when he was 15 through um he had he had a heart attack had a few heart issues but like
00:30:11
he was a he was a really good player so we had a couple players floting around parck that um could have done some
00:30:16
pretty good things but um yeah I just I just worked really hard and then had a bit of a natural ability
00:30:23
and yeah I mean it's it's hard on talk to people that used to know me when I
00:30:28
young I just don't know yeah but it seems like um like the odds were stacked
00:30:31
against you like um your cap college is not a it's not a school with a fine rugby history or anything and you
00:30:37
wouldn't be on the right I don't know if there were even sort of like Talent
00:30:40
spotters or anything back then there probably wasn't no but there were like how did how did how did you get from
00:30:45
there to be on anyone's radar like how do you stand out on an average team yeah
00:30:49
I mean that's probably a good lesson I tell that to a lot of you know if we're
00:30:52
talking to the kids and uh these days like I always say there this there's always someone watching right so whether
00:30:58
you're winning by 100 or losing by 100 you know there could be someone standing
00:31:02
on the on the sidelines that knows somebody that knows somebody that coaches a rep team or whatever and if if
00:31:09
you're a dick or you got a really bad attitude or whatever then that will get
00:31:14
back to whoever it needs to get back to right so um yeah C College mate we're a
00:31:18
first 15 I play first 15 we're playing second 15 teams in town getting smashed
00:31:23
um and then you know you play for half an hour under 16s 18s whatever you know you get
00:31:30
beaten quite a 90% of the time and then one year for whatever reason I got picked up into New Zealand
00:31:38
schools and so you get into that team and there's some pretty good players floating around and I'd always been
00:31:45
probably one of the better players at cap and then you get into that team uh you know Peter altini George
00:31:51
George Ley there's some pretty good players floating around James Kerr all these guys have played Super Rugby and I
00:31:57
I sat on the Ben for the first year of that New Zealand secondary schools and like I was always a big fish
00:32:04
in the small pond in cap you know you're like you played all right but man yeah
00:32:08
and then when you get into the big wild world of New Zealand like I like f man look at all these players like these
00:32:12
guys are awesome uh so you i' have sort of realized quite early on so that would
00:32:16
have been I don't know 145 that like you have to I don't know you just have to
00:32:20
work really hard um you know you can all that have all that natural ability but you know there is a bit of thing in
00:32:29
there where you got to work hard and and then the next year I got in schools and
00:32:33
and played and started every game and um yeah so I guess I got into the into that
00:32:39
age grade stuff early and then got noticed but played for Haro when I was 18 the senior team and we got beaten in
00:32:47
every game we got beaten by uh Jonah Jonah's first first class game so there's TV cameras
00:32:56
there the new TV1 TV3 you know Jonah was on One Wing Joel vendere was on the other wing and we got beaten well we did
00:33:05
get 12 points but the problem was y yeah they got 108 [ __ ] so wow yeah so it was just one
00:33:13
of those uh so yeah every and then we lost every game after that but we had a amazing year even though we lost
00:33:18
everything like we played you we played counties we played transv which was man running out as an 18y old against you
00:33:27
know some of these guys that have played for SFA like like giant men yeah yeah they were big that yeah it was Unreal
00:33:32
and then you know we played Fiji not long after that so for a little second division side out of half for we' had
00:33:38
these three massive games and then went on to lose every other game and got demoted back down to third division but
00:33:43
um yeah someone must have say something and then I got someone rang me up and said do you want to come to a man or two
00:33:49
play for Kar and then yeah so I had one year half then yeah and then up there and but I think once you're in the
00:33:55
system if you keep on improving and people and the good attitude and all that sort of stuff I guess you'll keep
00:34:01
on going far and then sevens was probably the one where it kicked off from and that was out of man or two yeah
00:34:07
that's it's really good to re it's really good to hear this stuff because
00:34:09
um like the word that was sort of thrown around quite a lot when you were um playing was like the word freak people
00:34:15
would call you a freak but it's um you weren't a freak you just worked [ __ ]
00:34:18
hard yeah yeah I mean we uh I mean I I did weights you know Dad had you know weights and then I don't know how good
00:34:26
it is for you start at 12 right as a young fell but you used to go out to the garage and you train out the garage and
00:34:32
like we we were riding our bikes around pck and it was it was just that that age
00:34:37
where you and that that time where you could you know you had to be home before the lights came on the street lights
00:34:42
came on so you could go down the park and kick around and do stuff and we're
00:34:45
working on the back of a milk truck carrying big crates you know with the old you know milk bottles foils yeah
00:34:51
yeah like so we were doing that when I was 12 13 like jumping off the back of a truck with a big crate so I mean I guess
00:34:59
we were quite strong and we had other stuff like that that was fitness-wise yeah I can always remember yeah I said
00:35:07
there's no way my 12 or 13 year old will be jumping off the back of a milk truck
00:35:11
like it was just you you know safety issues you need a seat belt on the back of a truck like I was some of the stuff
00:35:17
that used to happen like I was like there's no way that stuff could happen now but yeah I mean we had a pretty good
00:35:22
pretty good upbringing and um yeah oh my what was the question off oh no no people called you a but it was actually
00:35:32
just hard work that went into it and I suppose um B of both B of both yeah yeah yeah and also just yeah on the back of
00:35:37
your house I remember there was like a big sort of like Landing or field there where you and your older brother Shane
00:35:43
used to play so getting um pounded obviously like day after day by your brother that's 2 years older than you
00:35:49
probably helped um yeah kous you up a bit yeah oh well I suppose going down the back with the older brother who's is
00:35:55
a lot bigger and playing one-on one's probably not ideal cuz there's a few
00:35:59
tears and going up complaining to Mom and but you know you just they shrug the shoulders and you just yeah pick pick
00:36:06
your lip up get the old uh the old water the old magic water on it yeah this I mean I mate you can probably tell people
00:36:14
I was probably quite soft when I was young but you know a lot of Tears playing in the with the older kids but I
00:36:21
guess it's toughen me up in some sort of way I don't know 100% character building
00:36:25
yeah so um It was 95 that you made the sevens squad for the first time eh yeah yeah and then but when was when was the
00:36:32
big year was that ' 96 96 was the next year yeah is that where you scored like
00:36:35
six tries in one game um seven seven sorry my bad yeah well that that was just I guess
00:36:43
one of those learnings for me was like 95 I went to the got picked up in the sevens with touch and I'd already been
00:36:49
to a tournament with titens and and I saw I sort of knew what he was about and the 95 men or2 play I think that's when
00:36:55
they had the Nationals at men or two which was pretty made the team but you sort of go into
00:37:00
that team and it's like far out you know like Jonah is there and Eric Rush is
00:37:03
there and dallis Seymour and like there some pretty big names and back then there was only the I think we only had
00:37:09
three tournaments you know Japan was one Fiji was one and Hong Kong was the massive
00:37:15
one that was Hong Kong was I me my parents used to always go over there and watch the Hong Kong s so I went there in
00:37:20
'95 and um Adrian kmore was the guy that was playing the position that that I was
00:37:27
playing so I played the first game um in Hong Kong scored a try and then I sat and watched the whole
00:37:35
tournament on the sideline because cashi was the number one guy there and um and joanah had his massive
00:37:42
tournament he you know player of the tournament and then I just when I got home it was like one of
00:37:47
those feelings where like you'd won a that' won a the one Hong Kong Sev you
00:37:53
get your medal or whatever you get and you know you're part of the team but I
00:37:57
just didn't really feel part of the part of it you just feel like spectator you
00:38:02
just wanted more like you know you're in the group and you're having a but you
00:38:05
haven't you only played one game and I said but there's got to be more to this
00:38:08
than that so I just I just went home to py and then I was in py by myself obviously chars with men or two and so I
00:38:16
got a trainer um a lady called Carolyn margan I don't know if you you probably
00:38:21
know from P she used to do massage and training so you I just train really hard for the next whatever it was was six
00:38:27
seven months until the next uh seven thing came up and then you need a bit of luck in rugby a so um I got I got resis
00:38:35
me fit and and then cashy got injured and then I went to Hong Kong in 96 and um play you played uh played every game
00:38:44
yeah got player of the tournament and I think 18 tries and that's just still a
00:38:48
record now which is quite cool and no one will ever beat it because of that stadium is no
00:38:53
longer that's amazing like th those games are so short how do you well was it four four I'll be honest
00:39:00
with you I always thought that cuz we was against Sri Lanka so I'm pretty sure I always tell
00:39:06
the story I'm pretty sure they're at the airport in Sri Lanka wherever that
00:39:09
airport is and there's a cricket team a rugby team I'm pretty sure they sent the
00:39:12
cricket team to Hong Kong so those little Sri Lankans that was have never played rugby before seven tries take it
00:39:19
though um and Mark Alis holds the twice scoring record in the 15s and that was against like Japan or something wasn't
00:39:25
it 135 to nil so man if you can't get seven or eight tries of that something
00:39:31
going on um and is was it that Hong Kong tournament that you got the nickname the
00:39:35
padik express or uh no I think it was through was that hurricane days like um Keith Quinn out of Wellington like yeah
00:39:46
yeah I think that's where that first came up so it's quite a tongue twisted
00:39:50
to try to say that really quickly it's lot of syllables it is Kelly stick with Kelly um better than
00:39:58
some of the nicknames that Eric Rush gave you that's true yeah yeah what um yeah ah there's one story in your book
00:40:04
that you tell about him like he's um so you you young at the time like 18 19 and
00:40:09
and and you're very painfully shy and he he introduces you at some saying um
00:40:15
saying something like um Christian doesn't need need to use condoms he just uses his
00:40:20
personality that's a good one yeah well the thing about Russia I guess when you get into a team and if people
00:40:27
start taking the piss out of you then I guess it makes you you're either go to
00:40:30
your shell or you it brings you out and I think Russia was quite good where he could take the puss out of you but you
00:40:37
know in quite a good way so yeah I mean Hong Kong was one of those things during
00:40:41
the week you got the early on in the week and then you had a lot of functions where you get up dress up in your number
00:40:45
ones you go there' be a lot of um a lot of kiwis at these functions all all suited up and and but at the end of it
00:40:52
we' have to get up the front and rush you would obviously do a little talk and
00:40:55
then introduce everybody and I don't know that that week in 90 '95 we had about three or four functions
00:41:03
and I I three or four different nicknames so he' he'd always get to me he goes oh this is Tran K he's 18 he's
00:41:10
from here he's this and that and uh you know the first one was um he called me
00:41:15
Chester and I kind of looked at him go he's never called me Chester before and
00:41:19
he goes oh cuz um at the time Chester Williams was in the um in the spring box and he he was the only black fellow in
00:41:25
the spring box at the time and I was I was pretty much the only white fell in the uh in the seven Sid so he called me
00:41:31
Chester and I was like oh m whatever and then the next the next day we're at
00:41:35
another function and he gets to man what's he going to call me now and then he goes oh oh this is Christian KH where
00:41:41
18 um we call him beer bottle cuz he's empty from the neck up like was that embarrassing at the time yeah I mean
00:41:49
what do you do like I'm just you just go for so shy back then as well yeah yeah
00:41:53
but that's that's rushy though that's um yeah I had a few through the year years
00:41:57
you know there's crowbar and the All Blacks cuz I never passed it I think that was more a Goldie
00:42:01
thing they needed a crowbar to get the ball out yeah yeah I got called MZ and that used to you know call me
00:42:10
cball what cball C Cab ball cut a ball yeah cuz when I used to run a cut be cut ball cut ball so I had I had a few but I
00:42:20
think the one that stick was just cly mate just plain and simple yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah [ __ ] they are they are
00:42:26
great Yarns um like the year at rush thing I I feel like um yeah be be a high risk to do that to someone now because
00:42:32
it could be taken the wrong way they could accuse you of bullying um there's
00:42:37
no doubt there was bullying so can we go back and do something about that yeah so
00:42:42
okay so there is there was the 96 Hong Kong sevens then I remember was that the first year of Super Rugby as well uh 96
00:42:50
yeah I remember so you played the first game I was there watching this was umland versus Men 2 at the um at the
00:42:57
sorry Oakland versus Hurricanes at the show grounds and there was the men of were two team and there was um like it
00:43:02
was I don't know there was some great players in there like you but there was
00:43:05
a lot of rag tag players right like um just some local players that have done pretty well like car Williams and Bruce
00:43:11
Hansen and there and you guys were playing Orland which was basically the All Blacks yeah I think we're um in
00:43:15
those early years especially we were a sort of a team that was sort of brought in I mean the hurricane region is
00:43:20
massive right it goes all the way up to gbon so yeah we're a sort of team that
00:43:23
was picked and pulled and from from all parts and then we we got players that couldn't make other teams bought down to
00:43:29
us so so we're a bit that of that team but yeah I still remember that running
00:43:36
out that first Super Rugby game and then you're looking across and you go you
00:43:41
know there's Craig Dal sure it's Patrick ol Brown um Robin Brooke I can't
00:43:47
remember who the other L was Michael Jones zenan Brooke a who Carlos I think stenen Ronnie Clark Jonah like it was
00:43:55
like far out man this is amazing it's um sted yeah yeah yeah and and and I always I seriously
00:44:04
always say this and my daughter showed me a picture the other day and I've said
00:44:08
this before she showed me a picture of Bowden Barrett when he first start the All Blacks with um a kid that's in the
00:44:15
hour Ruben love so Ruben was like a little 10-year-old in Bow and was starting out and then I've seen a
00:44:20
picture of Rich mcco and Dam McKenzie when he was young so I I always take that back to when I
00:44:27
Michael Jones I watched Michael Jones in 87 World Cup in New Zealand and I was like a young fell and then now I was on
00:44:36
the same park and I'm playing against like Michael Jones like I was like f man
00:44:41
how cool is this and I always remember after weed to have the after back functions and we getting our number ones
00:44:45
going and I remember Carlos coming up because he was a high from old boy and I was like bro can you take me across to
00:44:50
meet Michael Jones we couldn't get photos with them back then cuz we had the old Nokia phones and but it was just
00:44:56
just to go meet him shake his hand like man how how cool and then obviously when
00:45:01
Super Rugby fished and we gone into the All Blacks and then and then you're sitting in the same room as uh some of
00:45:07
these guys that we watched when I was like 10 years old like it's pretty cool
00:45:11
you don't yeah it's pretty pretty amazing i' that's the cool thing now I've seen obviously we
00:45:18
couldn't get photos back then but I've seen photos now that stuff that's
00:45:22
happened it's um yeah 10-year-old kid and then you get to play with a guy and
00:45:27
your hero that you used to used to watch like it's pretty amazing well and in
00:45:31
this chair that you're sitting in today I had K Mamu there like 3 4 days ago he
00:45:34
played what like 123 tests I think it was and he he told the basically the exact same story but about his first um
00:45:43
first year on the old blacks and he he Nam dropped you Jonah T like a whole bunch of guys from that era um so yeah
00:45:51
it's a cycle that's going to continue happening it's cool yeah and I guess
00:45:54
when you get in the photo you don't know what it like you don't know what it
00:45:57
means like I'm you know I might got photos with young kids and I'm sure when
00:46:02
B got the photo of R and love like he wouldn't have nine it's just another
00:46:05
photo with another kid but to that kid like that's everything like man I want
00:46:09
to be there one day that's so cool so it's um it means a lot and I think
00:46:14
today's player like like my kids are really into the rugby now it's my daughter and the boy
00:46:20
and all that sort of stuff and the one thing that the boys do today and especially with the hurricanes and I've
00:46:26
sort of been really standoffish like over the last since I've retired and cuz
00:46:30
you know we've done our time and you know I just sort of but my kids have got
00:46:35
into it so you've been invited to the Hurricanes um environment a few times into the training thing and into the
00:46:40
change rooms after the games and and they're just really accommodating now like bring bring the kids in you know
00:46:48
get them around and every boy every player will come up and Shake Your Hand the management will good to have you on
00:46:53
near col the kids get the kids kids get photos and but that's I've recking
00:46:58
that's awesome because the kids that makes them feel really good and yeah and I just we just I don't know
00:47:05
when we were coming through I enough we had that like oh but do you think they like that with everyone or is it because
00:47:10
you're you're a you're a hurricanes Legion yeah I don't know I just think
00:47:13
the the player these players and it's cuz they know like let's be honest like
00:47:19
there's a bit of a battle now with rugby and and competition and so I think it's
00:47:23
just one of those things where the better at PR they they need to be because they need those young kids
00:47:28
coming to the games they need they need fans they need people loving rugby again cuz it's in a
00:47:35
it's a bit of a it's a bit of a funny spot at the moment but yeah I mean hey
00:47:39
but for me it's um I've never I've never really missed it apart from that that
00:47:44
buzz but over that s the last last month or so with the hurricanes and and going
00:47:49
in there a few times with the kids you go like this was it's really cool like
00:47:54
it's I kind of felt like really you know really proud that you used to be part of
00:47:59
part of that group and then how they're treating the sort of old boys now coming
00:48:03
in like it's and then looking after our kids like yeah it's uh yeah it was
00:48:07
pretty cool yeah I I get the feeling from the way you're talking that the older you get the more um you appreciate
00:48:14
what what you did yeah yeah yeah I mean absolutely I mean you know that tour of 90 I always say the tour of 96 when we
00:48:20
won the first series in s Africa like man I was 20 a young fell going I was like [ __ ] this is just awesome going to
00:48:28
tour sou Africa only been there super ugly but we're going there for six weeks
00:48:32
now and playing four tests and you know we could play a test have a few beers and what whatever like it's going to be
00:48:38
cool like so and then we win the series and like everyone's like man so good
00:48:43
hasn't happened since ever and what and I was like oh yeah man it's it's I'm
00:48:48
just happy to be here yeah I was just really tired at one point I remember the tour I was just I'm just really T I was
00:48:54
just really tired um but yeah that was how I felt and I remember Fitzy saying and a few people
00:49:01
saying you know they came in off the game we won the series and Don Clark cuz he's living over at the time was there
00:49:06
and he's got a tear out his eye and a lot of players have been there before us
00:49:09
that that hadn't managed to to win and and I always say like to it means more
00:49:16
to me now than than it did back then like I just didn't you know I just didn't I don't know I thought that I
00:49:22
didn't appreciate it but I just didn't really know I just didn't know that what
00:49:26
it meant what it meant or the history or the cuz I was just young I just want to
00:49:29
just want to play rugby and you know and obviously back then not that I liked alcohol but you know you go out and have
00:49:35
a few beers afterwards and that like that was just the way it was well I even um I found this this book that I've had
00:49:41
had all these years so this was like just a photo book that was um put out at the time so that's how significant oh
00:49:46
that's that's how significant the year was the historic 1996 old black season
00:49:50
you mentioned don don Clark before so he was he was a fullback as well right yeah
00:49:54
when in the like the 1950s yeah I couldn't tell you that but yeah yeah real old school so did you yeah he's
00:50:01
like you and him are whenever a conversation comes up about the greatest fullback ever it's usually usually you
00:50:06
two that get yeah I mean you know all that talk Dom like I reckon it's really
00:50:11
you just take it for what it is right like it's really hard to compare eras and people go who's the best fullback
00:50:16
whatever whatever like I just go whatever whoever whatever you think it is that's that's cool like I won't get
00:50:21
offended because I know like Don Clark if he was in today's ERA with everything
00:50:27
they have today how good would he be if you put these guys today into Don Clark's era how good would they like you
00:50:34
can't you can't compare you can't compare from the 90s even to the to the
00:50:39
now or to the two because everything changes like the just everything everything changes like the science
00:50:44
behind training the food the recovery the don't drink alcohol after games it's
00:50:49
not good for you don't eat CN flakes at dinner yeah yeah just just everything so
00:50:53
I just go M yeah whatever man whatever you think I'm I'm not offended if you
00:50:56
think bad bloody Ben Smith or Izzy dag or whatever like that's cool that's
00:51:01
that's cool that you guys like I don't it's it's all good but that's cuz you're
00:51:04
so I mean you're so comfortable in your own skin so that's a conversation for
00:51:08
people that are on the armchairs basically isn't it yeah yeah I mean I still now I go man there's only there's
00:51:14
probably a few players that could have done like both eras like you know they could have been Farm guys working on the
00:51:19
farm Monday to Friday and then go play a test on on satday you know I think Richie mcco probably could have done
00:51:24
that do you know what I mean or you know white Lo col Ms yeah cols Kurt Patrick you know but yeah I just yeah you
00:51:34
imagine some players working on the farm all week and they going to play a test match like that just and I know things
00:51:40
are different but yeah just just off top my head like those guys I go yeah man they could have done both they could
00:51:45
have done both erors yeah um yeah so so 96 um you make the old how how so there was trial like the possibles and
00:51:54
probables yeah it's probably the last I we might have had another one the year
00:51:58
year after that but I'm yeah there weren't many yeah that was one of the
00:52:02
one last one so yeah possible was probable so so were you like a long shot uh yeah I guess so cuz that but but I
00:52:11
was it's quite cool when you get when you get put into the posses and not the
00:52:16
probables I don't know what's better being like Underdog status it's possible
00:52:19
or probables better I don't know but anyway I was in the team that was pretty
00:52:22
much the World Cup team from the year before without cuz Glenn Osborne was a fullback so he played in the World Cup
00:52:28
um yeah so I mean I mean I guess had a reasonbly good trial against um yeah against the
00:52:34
other the probables and then that was the week before the uh smon test and then yeah and then just Hardy came up to
00:52:42
me after and said oh we're going to name the ORS tomorrow and you know you're
00:52:45
you're in it uh yeah don't make sure you don't tell anyone until it comes out I said
00:52:53
sweet so I rang mom and dad and a few other people on the motel landline yeah yeah yeah but I mean I was I was really
00:53:00
lucky because you know you get put on a team that was pretty much the World Cup team the year before they possibly
00:53:06
should have won the World Cup bar Suzie and food poison and a few other things but um yeah so there was me and Scott
00:53:13
mlau that were um the two the two new guys in that team so it was pretty cool mean to you be running you know you know
00:53:21
Jonah and Jeff and Merz and you know pretty good four pack so yeah it was a pretty good first year yeah what what
00:53:28
are your Recollections of that time in that first game I've had I've had so
00:53:32
many so manys on the podcast and they talk about it and everyone's got a different experience most people are
00:53:37
like nervous or they feel like an imposter I feel like you wouldn't have um I don't know you felt you you you've
00:53:43
always sort of felt like you belong eh oh not really no no not really I mean I think it's quite intimidating going and
00:53:51
like and I know you probably talked to to like to Kev a few current players like it'd be probably easier to walk
00:53:58
into that envir even though you'd be nervous it's probably easier to walk in
00:54:01
that into that environment now than it was when we sort of came in like it was very much still um a
00:54:09
hierarchy these guys and you were and were right right at the bottom of the of the chain so it was quite intimidating
00:54:16
walk into that room the first day the first meeting and I was we were reasonably lucky because we you know we
00:54:23
had a few of the sevens boys there Jonah and Russ was there I'd feel the Wellington boys Al llama was there I
00:54:28
think bll Allen was there norie you normie hu so we had a few boys that kind of look after you but it's still M you'd
00:54:36
go to breakfast in the morning and you'd walk in and there'd be a table and it be
00:54:39
you know you know Fitzy Craig D and Jones you like I don't really want to sit over there you know [ __ ] where's
00:54:45
mying where's my Wellington guys like so it was a bit was quite intimidating so
00:54:50
like going into the food court in prison or something yeah yeah yeah yeah don't
00:54:53
be spoken until you're spoken to yeah wow it did it actually felt a bit a little bit like that so you know and
00:55:00
that just doesn't bring the best out of players right but I mean and then then
00:55:04
that week I I tweaked my calf on I think it was like on a Tuesday or Wednesday training I tweaked it so I don't know if
00:55:11
I'd be playing that week so it was a bit of a um bit of stress uh for two or three days and I
00:55:18
was just icing and Physio and um TW you know every 3 or 4 hours icing and I had a fitness test on the on the satday
00:55:27
morning down down the park went for a run with Doc mahu and the trainer and like the Cal was F was real sore so I
00:55:36
ran up and down and just did a few Sprints and it was real sore and they they just said oh how's it feeling I
00:55:40
said oh yeah it feels real good and then just went back and I thought F man this
00:55:45
is yeah I don't know don't know if it's going to get through and then iced it
00:55:48
right through the whole day because it was a night game and then yeah so I was really I was really really nervous I
00:55:54
don't know if that was because of the because it was my first test match or because like I don't know if I was 100%
00:56:00
with my calf and then or was it because of the hacker because I was never a big hacker guy I don't
00:56:08
know um so so the rugby what you know why you been selected but you're not selected for the hucker yeah yeah yeah
00:56:16
Rugby's easy but I remember just sitting in the change room for that the test and
00:56:20
just looking around a you like f Patrick and Michael just all these people you go
00:56:25
it's pretty cool and then ran out and got got through the Huer and and then bang like the calf just went away like
00:56:33
so and then got got through the game so and then yeah then the rest is history that year so yeah I was I was reasonably
00:56:40
unsure uneasy sort of two or three days before and then you start you start working your way up the not that you're
00:56:46
right there but you start working your way way up the chain where you know played the first test okay on a I'm an
00:56:52
all black now I've got the Jersey now come Come on talk to me guys yeah so how yeah how long does that take
00:57:00
cuz I'm like I'm thinking someone like say um Michael Jones or Frank buns was
00:57:05
he there at the time that's the difference though is that Michael Jones nice nicest guy in
00:57:10
the world so but the thing a lot of these Orland guys have come through the era where that was just the way it was
00:57:16
but as I said to you like Glenn Osman was still there the the North Harbor boys so bun and waler little good
00:57:22
bastards um you know Michael nicest guy in the world um are you in your book you
00:57:27
talk about Ian Jones yeah was he was he Frosty you gave him a shout out oh and Dy yeah dy I mean should I room with Dy
00:57:34
in the UK and I don't think he said boo to me I used to go in there 8:30 at night and TV would be off he'd be
00:57:40
blankets he sleeping I'd be lying going what am I going to do what am I to do I mean I had it with the I had it
00:57:47
with the sevens we went to FG and so he's back in those days you you walk into your room and there's no TV cuz
00:57:54
you're just room in two beds and I was with old Dallas seamour and then he had
00:57:58
the old Walkman with the headphones so he put that on and I'm I'm only I'm only
00:58:02
a young fell so I just looking at the roof like I think yeah I got like two or three words out in the whole week like
00:58:08
you know we're going to breakfast or we're going to training going to dinner
00:58:12
so but it was just a bit like that hey now I get on well with all these boys you just have to prove yourself it's
00:58:18
just how it was at the time now now I'm sure with guys like ad s and I'm sure
00:58:21
it's never been more inclusive than what it is there absolutely and that brings
00:58:24
out the best in players right you get a young fell coming in you want him to be himself you don't want him to hide away
00:58:29
or going to a shell you want him to be himself and yeah there is still a hierarchy right you got to there is
00:58:34
still that but it's way more open oh I can't imagine how intimidating that is oh but so the first game you
00:58:41
score three tries [ __ ] amazing and oh you get tackled hard I remember watching
00:58:45
that on TV thinking bro is not going to get up but you it's like you po just
00:58:50
bounced up again like Tyson Fury oh yeah Bang Yeah um yeah I don't know yeah just
00:58:57
one like oh those tackles M AR the big clean tackles and hits they they look sore but they're probably they don't
00:59:03
hurt as much as some some of the other ones yeah I got Cod hanged once and and Brian lar got me a quite a good one from
00:59:10
a from a box kick but that's uh yeah that's all part of it day that's uh
00:59:15
welcome to test match rugby and and after that so after that first test like in the the changing rooms does um like
00:59:22
fsy or any of those senior guys come up and say hey nice work nice week kit um not enough to prove yourself so
00:59:29
you had to get four the next week not enough to prove yourself well I do yeah I mean I do remember the after party the
00:59:34
after thing was that the senior like this is how we were Pro but still very much amateur you know the after party is
00:59:41
pretty much I think at my my girlfriend at the time not not anymore but you know
00:59:47
it's like they go you go we've got him tonight it's his first test so we'll got
00:59:51
to go and uh fill him up which is I like a court session well yeah they they send you Plaza look
00:59:58
after you go out and but that's how you know and I go man I never I never really
01:00:02
drunk much before I made the All Blacks and I in those first 10 test matches like it was some quite big nights after
01:00:07
every test match the only good thing like you're young and 20 so you could bounce back the next day but I don't
01:00:14
know what what we know now to back then you just you yeah we did all right for what we did you was like professional in
01:00:22
terms of starting to get paid for what you were doing but probably little else yeah yeah and I know I know John hard I
01:00:28
mean he was quite hard he was pretty big on trying to cuz he had come from the corporate world and um and Coach joined
01:00:37
that amateur era as well but knew now that was professional so that was that was something that took a while to to
01:00:43
wean out but that was yeah I mean still very much amateur thinking on on how things were done especially
01:00:51
after after stuff yeah which is yeah I mean how long could you last you see the boys now like like it is man it is
01:01:01
structured after games and what you eat and what you drink and your recovery like that's just smart you well I had um
01:01:10
uh Dr Nick gil on the podcast and he said he he said the big struggle now is like getting players not to
01:01:16
overtrain um because everyone takes it you know everyone just wants to like take it to that next level yeah I
01:01:22
listened to that and I bet that was that was good to listen to because it was um
01:01:26
but that's that how that's just how it's evolved right that's just that's just
01:01:31
some days we used to hate training because we go oh we had a [ __ ] game on Saturday so Monday's going to be we're
01:01:36
going to get punished and we're going to have to run and do heaps of contact and
01:01:39
if you had a good game then but but today like listening to that girl like it's everything is so you know we're got
01:01:45
an hour Training Day boys whether you played [ __ ] or played good like it this is what it is it structured so how can
01:01:51
you not enjoy that like I mean and all the everything is so specific to your individual back in AR back in our day
01:01:59
they pretty much threw a blanket over this is what we're doing for training today boys so I'm doing the
01:02:07
same as nor nor here Mark Ellen and we're going to be running a 3K run and and then you know so all the
01:02:14
psychologist guys like 30 guys in a room we're all different but we're all listen
01:02:20
to so I still remember our first psychologist came into the room and he had five guys that were like man there's
01:02:25
was awesome there'd be 10 guys over there going what's this guy talking about there' be another five guys there
01:02:31
going sleeping in the corner so every individual's uh yeah they're all different and and that's just how the
01:02:37
game is gone but your Nick was he was pretty cool he was he was good to listen to but he said he's learned I mean when
01:02:44
he was down in denan doing his [ __ ] like from then to now like that's just the
01:02:49
way the game's gone and it's ch changing all the time there there was probably
01:02:52
one thing in your favor like that that you got into the weights early so you know when when rug yeah what was
01:02:58
your everyone everyone want to ask me on Instagram what what was your best bench
01:03:02
why is that a big thing uh don't know were you real strong for size or age back then I don't know yeah I think i'
01:03:07
done about 160 when I was about 82 83 kgs but then guys uh you know you can put on probably
01:03:16
today know you could I don't know but I I I I think I mean if I was playing today you could
01:03:22
probably you could put on 6 s kg so could play at 90 kgs and then bench more cuz the training is just it's just
01:03:30
different like it's you know I follow old cam royard who's just coming back
01:03:35
from his knee injury quite a bad KNE knee injury and some of the stuff and the rehab and the stuff that he is
01:03:43
posting and what he's doing to get himself back is like it's unreal like
01:03:48
and he's he's ahead of time and he's and when I had my knee injury far out was
01:03:53
like pretty much good luck yeah didn't you have your first where you go didn't you have your first knee
01:04:00
surgery when you were like 16 yeah yeah yeah so yeah pretty much I tore a little bit of cartilage so they
01:04:07
took the whole cartilage out so yeah I've been bone on bone since yeah since
01:04:11
I was 16 so I'm it lasted quite well not that good now but yeah but I mean that
01:04:17
you just they wouldn't do that now right they you tell you they just repair it or
01:04:21
whatever whatever they do but that's just what you did back then yeah it's
01:04:26
crazy and um John Hart did you you enjoy I had him on the podcast and he it's
01:04:31
quite funny like I put a clip on Tik Tok the amount of comments say like so many
01:04:35
people are still bitter about playing us center it's like it was quarter of a
01:04:38
century ago I I I found the comments funny because I thought it's not it's
01:04:42
not something that's um ruminating on your mind every day no but other people
01:04:46
are still they they're still still dirty about it but was he he was a good coach
01:04:50
I suppose you always have a special place for the coach that selects you for the All Blacks for the first yeah I mean
01:04:54
I enjoyed yeah I enjoy Hardy I mean he was he was a good talker and uh yeah yeah I mean I mean all that Center thing
01:05:03
like I don't know I suppose it was one of those things where you know I think
01:05:08
there was me uh Jonah Goldie and tner that four players doesn't go into three positions so he
01:05:18
need to find another position and um so he flew down to Wellington uh I think it was 90 98 Maybe
01:05:27
started 99 before the World Cup and just said how' you feel about playing I said
01:05:32
oh mate I'd I was young e so I just I'd play Anywhere But I guess what you don't
01:05:37
know or realize is that Center takes it's quite a tough position and it takes
01:05:42
a bit of time to um all our great centers in all black rugby have they started off great I
01:05:49
don't know they've taken a bit of time you know the Conrad Smiths and M nonu
01:05:52
and all that sort of stuff it's taken time to to get them to to where they were uh but then in saying that was me
01:06:00
playing Center the reason why we lost the world uh the World Cup semi against France I don't know absolutely not I
01:06:06
don't know hindsight's a wonderful hindsight's great because we uh we had
01:06:10
tun on the wing and he end up moving to Midfield later on and being one of our greatest ever senders you know like it
01:06:15
was I don't know yeah it's just one of those things that I think we hit France
01:06:20
on a day for 30 minutes that I don't think any team yeah they just everything just went
01:06:26
their way it was just one of those 30 minute periods of rugby that every bounce every ball um yeah we made a few
01:06:33
mistakes but yeah it's good memories St how how often um yeah things like that how often do you think about it now
01:06:44
because I'm like I had Shane Cameron on the podcast and he he said uh for the
01:06:47
first seven years after that David tour fight not a day went by that he didn't
01:06:51
think about it Dion NES said the same thing he said now sometimes in the shower to think about things he could
01:06:56
have done differently in his career I think think about other things in the sh um like it for you is it is out of
01:07:03
your mind like a couple of weeks later or a couple of years later or uh I don't know like it's when you
01:07:11
ask me that now like that was 90 99 is a long time ago for me so that's quarter
01:07:16
of a century yeah uh reasonably I think it reasonably quick to be honest with you like I think with I mean World Cups
01:07:27
are different because uh sort of four you cycle games are easy because yeah you're losing you just got to man look
01:07:33
the good thing about rugby is you get usually get another week to try and sort something out and you're playing Another
01:07:37
Game World Cups are yeah I don't think about it the only thing I think about
01:07:43
is but I don't even it doesn't even worry me but I played in out of position I only got a chance to play One
01:07:50
World Cup like and that was it that's probably my I would love to play you know I was close close to 95 but I was
01:07:59
too young I guess or not not there yet and then 96 then 99 I went in 2003 Mitchell was there so it's kind of you
01:08:08
know possibly could have played three played one and played out of position so that's the only thing I but I don't sit
01:08:14
there and dwell and cry into my pillow at night about it like it's no you I mean like it's I know it's
01:08:20
funny no I don't is this stuff that I and rugby that I don't know don't think
01:08:27
so we that was um so 99 that was going into the the new millenniums that was a big deal so I remember this so we we uh
01:08:34
we went and spent New Years together went to some concert in napia and I don't think we talked about it once like
01:08:40
I don't think it even came up in the conversation that was the same year you
01:08:44
seemed unbothered by it by by that stage yeah well I tend to I tend to bottle things up like and
01:08:53
then what's on the outside is not necessar what yeah so I wouldn't I'm not
01:08:57
a big I wouldn't be a big talker on that sort of stuff and and talk about the the
01:09:02
worries or the the problems that that will up like a yeah would you would you talk
01:09:08
about that stuff with anyone I think think that New Year Eve like you were with Mandy at the time who's um now now
01:09:14
your wife I do remember actually this is the um probably the only time I've known
01:09:19
you that I've seen you emotional like um you did get upset that night but it was
01:09:23
because a m of viers had died in a accident a week or two prior that um nothing nothing to do with the any rugby
01:09:30
game that year yeah yeah yeah but yeah you good at like communicating stuff with Mandy or just n you just keep it
01:09:36
all to yourself uh yeah like yeah yeah I'm probably more probably more emotional now than what I
01:09:46
guess as you get older and and I guess kids and and just things happen like do you know like when we're young and like
01:09:54
that that that concert you're talking about in Hawks Bay like people never I think when we
01:10:01
get older more just people people start dying right like it's actually you know back then it was like
01:10:07
we were young and like that that stuff never happen that's quite that's quite
01:10:09
harsh but and then you go through a period where nothing but I think when we get our age
01:10:14
now like it it's far out man life is short right like it's you know we talk
01:10:19
about the sevens and in the Wellington and you know that sevens team of 96 like you know there's three guys that aren't
01:10:27
here you know there's Joe toi J vender and Jonah are not here you know Wellington NPC side that won
01:10:34
2000 uh mon um Vander murther who came over from SFA he's not here JC's not here Norman
01:10:42
H's just passed like it's like far out man life is you know it's uh yes I I always think man you got to
01:10:52
got to enjoy life and [ __ ] [ __ ] happens though like you know we lost you know there reason why
01:10:58
we went on that Treasure Island is you know we lost Mandy's brother to brain
01:11:01
Tremor and he [ __ ] barely touching 40 like that's just cruel that [ __ ] shouldn't happen like but it does and
01:11:10
it's actually it's quite it's quite sad eh like it's uh yeah so I mean you got to you got to
01:11:17
enjoy life like yeah oh yeah I got quite quite a sad the other you when someone said that
01:11:23
you 967 I sort of s back on the far out man three of those boys aren't here now
01:11:27
and they're like same age as [Music] me yeah yeah you had a lot lot to do with them like um yeah your career in
01:11:35
Jonah's like were almost like parallel weren't they like sort of starting at
01:11:39
the same time yeah yeah I mean Jonah was just uh while you talk about freaks like
01:11:43
he's probably the freak and the first I always say he was uh your first ever he was the first
01:11:51
Global Superstar of of rugby like and because he was so big and stand he stood out everywhere he went like you know
01:11:58
you'd send Jonah if there's a big crowd you send Jonah over there and then
01:12:01
everyone and you could just sneak off down the side like but he was uh yeah he was just different like he
01:12:09
was he had a massive heart like just uh looked after looked after a lot of people that did a lot of things that
01:12:16
probably people you know people didn't know and you being in Africa and he go
01:12:20
by the B loved his music and go by the big boom box and then when we left the hotel just leave it for the maids and
01:12:27
you know just little things like that and yeah he was uh yeah he was he was and I was really lucky I I thought I was
01:12:36
really lucky I got the I had the best seat in the house when Jonah played cuz I never played against him once and that
01:12:42
was enough but then he came down and played for Wellington so I got to sit him behind at fullback and watch uh yeah
01:12:49
watch we could do so yeah I was pretty lucky to to sit him behind a guy like that and he was luy too yeah like
01:12:57
surrounded by good players yeah yeah I mean he was uh I always think he he should have been born in America cuz he
01:13:03
he just had to Big NFL energy massively you know we always remember he loved his
01:13:08
cars and he' turn up to a cafe and it have a big like a matrix neon like like
01:13:14
leather coat on it you just walk in there and look at this guy you know where he turn up to train had they been
01:13:21
waiting for a convertible bloody car and he turn up and you could hear the music
01:13:24
coming down the the road and he' turn up and he the roof was off and the music
01:13:28
going and like he was just uh he was that guy but man yeah yeah did you have a room with
01:13:36
him uh no I probably did but not a lot I was more T cuz I was I I could sleep I could sleep quite a bit I was quite a
01:13:45
good sleeper so T was probably one of the biggest snorers in the team until he become Captain he got his own room but
01:13:52
yeah I'd be yeah I'd be uh yeah could pretty much go to sleep anywhere so they
01:13:57
put me with him yeah you yeah you and him were tired do you remember that new year we went to I think I went as your
01:14:03
plus one so Tanner and his wife k k yeah and you took me as your plus one so we went for a New Year's up there and for
01:14:09
some reason I don't know how this happened but uh BL chuk who's one of the
01:14:14
uh captains of Team New Zealand now we end up staying at his family house so BL was kicked out of his Blair and his
01:14:20
brother were kicked out of their room and you and I were sleeping in in their he and he went to school the next year
01:14:27
and even though I was sleeping in bl's bed um the story he tells us that at school for you know what you did over
01:14:33
the summer holidays chat he said he he lied and said you slept in his bed because but how cool is that those boys
01:14:39
how good they're going going now like that's oh so good small world so good
01:14:43
yeah but um my recollection from that time is so that they had um a massive like sort of touch rugby sort of area at
01:14:48
their house up in ker K and we're playing um like touch rugby on the lawn there and you and um but you and tana
01:14:55
were like tackling each other and you guys were going [ __ ] hard like it was crazy to watch like every time you been
01:15:03
you guys would be like rolling around the floor like just pissing yourself laughing but from standing on the
01:15:07
sideline watching it it was intimidating as heal young and dumb mate young and dumb
01:15:13
yeah yeah how funny is it when you get out of bed in the morning yeah I know yeah yeah yeah yeah so you got to um 51
01:15:20
consecutive tests uh and uh when you got to 50 you're only the 14th person to May
01:15:25
it to 50 something was a hell of a milestone um yeah that's cool like yeah given the how [ __ ] your
01:15:34
knee was when you started like the place you were coming from to make it that far
01:15:37
and the position you in was remarkable eh well yeah I guess so I mean I I guess that's one thing with with what Hardy
01:15:45
did was in that 99 World Cup I think I was a reserve for one of the games and and and he did say oh you know well um
01:15:54
you know you will you will be getting on at some stage cuz and I think he knew that consecutive record yeah so he I got
01:16:01
on against Italy I think so that wouldn't break the you know the consecutive even though I was playing at
01:16:07
Center but not better not better and after after Hardy who who oh Wayne Smith he
01:16:15
was the coach after that and and he he loved you you had a good relationship with yeah I mean Smithy was great I mean
01:16:22
he was good then and he's he's great now and I think everybody in New Zealand
01:16:25
knows how how good he was and um yeah had been through that the sort of the Crusaders in cany and was a good player
01:16:33
himself and yeah he just had a really good rapport with the players and very um very Hands-On um running around the
01:16:42
pitch and uh yeah yeah I love Smithy and yeah that time we had uh when he was coaching us and
01:16:50
then um yeah the time where we lost a couple of really you know a couple really close
01:16:59
games um when he I guess that's when he I think he questioned whether he was
01:17:04
good enough to to be in the role or not and like I think I said to you earlier like it's almost like Smithy took he
01:17:12
took the losses really hard like as probably harder than some of the players and but that's just how that's how
01:17:19
passionate and how much he loved loved the All Blacks and then obviously that's
01:17:23
what happened uh when he went back for that was at the interview uh to get get the job back in whatever year it was 203
01:17:30
I think with him and Mitchell but yeah he but yeah I mean we all know now how good he is and everybody wants him and
01:17:40
you know they call him the professor and and what he's done with the women's game
01:17:44
and uh and the men's game but yeah he was he was one of my favorite him and him and Dave renie two of my favorite
01:17:53
coaches yeah and and your dad and my dad your dad early on yeah yeah well he was dad was
01:18:00
hard he was yeah he didn't who who was harder um Chris Kellen or um Gordon titens
01:18:07
oh oh yeah well titch was yeah titch was tough yeah he was yeah he had joy in seeing people
01:18:15
break yeah but I was probably more scared of dad like yeah we stitch TCH isn't going to give you a smack with the
01:18:22
belt is he no no no I always remember cuz Dad used to work down paru and we used to after school have to catch the
01:18:28
train down to uh pmon because we used to play for paramedic Plum and we lived in
01:18:31
pck so we catch the train down and it used to work out the train would get there at 4: and whatever training
01:18:36
started at High 4 or 10 4 and we used just to stand up at the top of the hill and we could see the train coming from
01:18:42
pram and then one day I was really and we used to when we seen it we could had about a 400 meter sprint down to the
01:18:49
train station you get there train will pull up you get in and this one day we're there and the sun was kind of in
01:18:54
out eyes and and I reckon we're going is that the train we can't is that the
01:18:58
train we can't see it and then then it come through the sun we see oh man so we
01:19:03
would have been 20 M behind what we should have been and we took off and just as we got the Train the doors were
01:19:08
closing so we missed our train down the training so that's when the fear came in
01:19:13
because we knew dad was coming from parua so when we didn't so we turned up on the next train and then yeah that's
01:19:21
yes so I was probably more afraid of of that of that yeah so me and me and my I think my brother and maybe I think Daryl
01:19:29
uh we turned up late for training and yeah yeah wasn't good you knew about it
01:19:34
running punishment your dad's a hard man it's like does I've never seen him in
01:19:38
long pants so you were see him um like at a Wellington game in the middle of winter it be freezing you just have like
01:19:44
a shorts on I think they when they did a tour to Scotland when they came over one
01:19:48
of those test matches and they came into the afterm match so you needed long pants so so he wore shorts to the game
01:19:55
and then had his long pegs in his backpack to put on to go to the afterm match that's the talk that's a great oh
01:20:02
what about Frank Oliver what what was he like Frank was your Frank was just Frank
01:20:07
Frank was great he's I love Frank he was um just old school um yeah very hard on the forwards
01:20:15
but bit of a pussycat with us backs yeah I love I used to love some of his um speeches before games and yeah he used
01:20:25
uh yeah some of his talks you tried not to laugh because some of the [ __ ] he said you know like oh like what oh what
01:20:32
was one of the we're in Hawks Bay playing I can't remember we're playing
01:20:35
maybe transv or someone and he and he just in his Gruff in his voice right righto boys let's let's see if you
01:20:43
[ __ ] as your [ __ ] hairs on your balls as it just fluff and all us backs are sitting in
01:20:51
the we're sitting in the back kind of trying to giggle but no Frank was great he's uh he's awesome
01:20:58
yeah I love frank and there was a shame when we um when he passed and but that was Frank right I think he was there I
01:21:06
don't know I heard he had a few issues and he he was just working out on the
01:21:09
trees and doing to sing and you know if he had have maybe got gone and got looked up or checked up and
01:21:16
I I don't know like these yeah just old school I remember cuz I was working on local radio at the
01:21:22
time and palas norn had come in a couple of times I called him filth because that was his nickname filthy
01:21:29
FR don't call me filth don't call me filth please call me Frank yeah no he
01:21:33
was good he was good Val a lot of those lot of those old boys are like you know we've had a few of them down through our
01:21:38
golf tournaments and and and gone to different function uh you know and Kur Patrick and boys like that they're great
01:21:45
they're great to talk to and I love talking about you know some of the old days when they used to go go on tour and
01:21:51
yeah some of the stuff that they did and yeah that they good value oh thanks for
01:21:55
sharing those memories that's cool um now the the mitual stuff so so Smithy um loses the job the nju decide to
01:22:05
replace him with um Robbie Deans and John Mitchell what's your previous interactions with those
01:22:12
guys uh no not much they done maybe Robbie Deans a few times just a I think he was a mentor maybe for the
01:22:21
All Blacks at one point with the fullbacks and I had a bit of a kicking session for half an hour one day but
01:22:26
that was yeah pretty much it yeah so didn't really know what to what to expect yeah and then then so what
01:22:33
happens what's your first sort of interactions um can you oh yeah can you even remember
01:22:41
or do should we just do want to graze over this uh yeah no not really I mean I don't really so so they came in
01:22:46
20 when were they in there though that's the was it 202 or 203 I can't remember
01:22:52
about what I do remember is I knew that my time was uh on yeah it was short it was going to be
01:22:59
short if these if both of them were there like had a few meetings during the year and I I can still remember that one
01:23:07
meeting that me and my manager at the time Dave mon went in and had a chat to Mitchell I don't know why but it was I
01:23:15
don't know I don't know why we went had a meeting with him but and we walked out
01:23:18
of that meeting and I was confused and Dave was confused and yeah it was you mat talking in rles
01:23:25
and what I needed to work on and I think one of the work on that I needed was my
01:23:31
thumb grip on the ball and and at that point you'd played 50s something test you were the um You
01:23:40
Higher scoring all black ever yeah so it seems like something that your dad should have been teaching
01:23:46
you when you were playing for him at 5 to8 years old they th yeah I mean there must have been like a you and Dave you
01:23:53
must have got back in the car and then what you're like what the [ __ ] was that
01:23:56
all about yeah I would just both and I I think just stuff happened over the year
01:24:00
like I hurt my knee at like there's just little things that sort of that built up
01:24:04
and I hurt my knee uh down in Den when uh leading up to the arish test and I spoke to Doc Mayu and I was so I went
01:24:12
back went back home on about the Thursday and pretty much told just you just got AR rest in Physio and and rehab
01:24:19
and then you know get a ring from John Mitchell on the S day um and I was it was pretty much howy you
01:24:26
going yeah good how come you're not playing Club rber this week and I was like uh because my knees [ __ ] and John
01:24:32
Mitchell uh um John mahu told me not to play and then I was pretty much oh you know I'll call the shots around here and
01:24:39
and then I was like oh yeah okay sweet and then that's how pretty much how it
01:24:43
ended well good luck with the test tonight and then yeah so that sort of stuff like that was kind of happening so
01:24:50
I thought oh [ __ ] this ain't going to so you just s of get the get vibe that
01:24:54
you're in no man's land yeah yeah yeah and um look I never and then yeah whatever
01:25:02
that all black season happened and then then Wellington um NPC kicked off and then played there and played played okay
01:25:10
but I just kind of I knew the writing was on the wall if um if Mitch Mitchell and Deans were there and I just I just
01:25:16
knew there's there's no future for me in New Zealand so look I didn't want to I didn't want
01:25:23
to leave New Zealand was actually is like I wanted to you know I was on 85 games with the Hurricanes you know
01:25:29
wanted to get 100 and [ __ ] I'm bit of a home boy and didn't really like I want
01:25:35
to go overseason and play play rugby you know I wanted to finish off my stuff in
01:25:39
New Zealand but you know I was still only 27 and then as it happens you know played the played the NPC and then then
01:25:47
Chris leam had pulled out of a deal that he was in mster in Ireland and um alen geffy who was the coach for Monster was
01:25:53
in Aussie and he laan pulled out and then somehow we got hold of him and then pretty much I made
01:25:59
a decision within two weeks to to go and it was quite I don't know I was yeah it was quite S I mean I was sad
01:26:09
I was you know I didn't want to go and yeah and then yeah then me and Mandy packed up and and pretty much left and
01:26:17
the only the only cool thing about that year was not the all black stuff or what
01:26:21
had happened was that and as I I appreciate it more now probably not not then is that I got to play my last game
01:26:29
uh in New Zealand uh at Wellington in front of a pretty good crowd for the final against uh against ockland oh how
01:26:37
good uh even though we lost but yeah it was sort of one of those things where and then I got injured and then so I got
01:26:45
to come off and got a few claps and appreciated it but didn't quite you know soak it him because I was still a
01:26:53
little bit down that you know this was it um then I was going on a book tour cuz I [ __ ] did that
01:27:01
book and and then I was pretty much gone so yeah all happened really really quickly but yeah the there was just no
01:27:09
future and for me I'm mean you said there was a few cheers I'm going to have
01:27:13
to like go back and review this on YouTube afterwards but um was there a few cheers or are you playing it down I
01:27:19
feel like was it more like a standing ovation from the entire cakon Yeah well yeah I don't know few people
01:27:26
standing maybe yeah I don't know like it just was um yeah I mean I mean appreciated it
01:27:32
like it was like I I love Wellington and I I said es I mean and with the Hurricanes like when I got to my 50th
01:27:40
game and you do a little talk in front of them and I said like I even though we had lost a few games like it's I just
01:27:47
wouldn't want to be anywhere else like uh I was always going to be you know even though I'd played for mental T in
01:27:54
for I was still a Wellington hurricane that region like I was never going to go out of it and uh so I was really really
01:28:02
proud for the hurricanes and then play for Wellington and and just for the crowd I guess to appreciate and that uh
01:28:09
what you'd put in and if they enjoyed it that was great like U you know you I
01:28:14
guess I appreciated the the the claps and that when you when I came off because I think there's a couple of um
01:28:20
truths about kiwi they first of all we like we love a champion someone that's
01:28:24
really good at what they do but also um we we love rooting for um an underdog or
01:28:29
sticking up for someone where there's been a perceived you know an injustice
01:28:33
perceived or otherwise so I feel like um you must have felt this as well and you
01:28:36
must still feel it now like quarter of a cur 21 years later or whatever it is like people really feel you got done
01:28:42
dirty yeah it's funny how they're still talking about it I mean it's like bring
01:28:46
back Buck that's you know people still talking about cuz I'm I'm sort of too
01:28:49
young to remember what the bu shord thing was but I remember the meme you know bring back back and now sort of
01:28:54
like yeah people still say bring back Cali yeah yeah uh yeah it must be it's
01:28:59
humbling right it's gratifying it is it's um people care right people care
01:29:03
about our rugby in New Zealand so and then yeah the good thing about I gu not the good thing but is from all over the
01:29:11
country obviously you know you think you know you get the support from your Wellington Wellington people but you
01:29:18
know there's a few people from outside so yeah TalkBack was going off and I guess it was a good it was a good week
01:29:23
for back I guess I don't know not a great week for Mitch not a great week for Mitch but yeah I don't know it's
01:29:29
just I guess it it is what it is right and uh every coach that comes into that all all black environment um you know
01:29:36
they want to do it their way and whether that's that's the old way or the new way
01:29:41
or whatever that's it is what it is right and you I guess got to roll with it and I I seen the rting on the wall
01:29:47
and yeah so that's I mean I know people talk about it and yeah okay we're upset
01:29:54
said it at the time but man I'm I'm reasonbly over it now yeah how yeah how
01:29:59
long how long did it take like realistically oh look yeah I mean I were you bitter about it for a while or not
01:30:05
really was I bitter I don't know if I was was I bitter I don't know um I don't know I know I know okay times
01:30:16
have changed right so today you know you get a ring and have a chat and you know
01:30:20
this is the reasons why ra and you know but we got there's pretty much none of
01:30:25
that it was more read it in the paper you know you put in whatever five six years and then see
01:30:33
later um no yeah there was just nothing like it was just as I said to you you're
01:30:39
like an old chair they were just pushing you out see you later bro we'll get
01:30:42
another these new chers are coming in so I don't know back then I guess was was dealing the M back in the
01:30:54
old days in kit Patrick's Day and the boy when they got dropped I'm sure they
01:30:57
they wouldn't know cuz there's no I don't know so it's just different I know
01:31:00
to that that just wouldn't happen today like a bit more respect than you know R
01:31:05
but I don't know was all better I don't know but it was just one of year I don't
01:31:10
know I went to Ireland and uh you you're away from everything and then 2003 happened with the the World Cup and it's
01:31:18
I felt really bad for the boys I was like do I mean hindsight's kind of a kind of
01:31:26
a pointless game but do you think um cuz in that last year of Wayne Smith like you had you there was some knee [ __ ]
01:31:31
going on and you you probably weren't potentially playing at the absolute best
01:31:35
you've been playing but do you think with the the you know with the right rehab program and the right care and
01:31:39
support from Mitchell and Deans you could have been back to playing your best yeah but I think that's as I say
01:31:45
it's like you know speaking to n girl about training and Rehab like it's just
01:31:50
different like we Super Rugby season I can remember I'd play on a sad day and then try get
01:31:57
through trainings and then go for a coffee of Dave uh during the week and then I'd sit down for half an hour I'll
01:32:02
go to try get up and my knee would knee would be locked mhm and and then you know take some pills and then play s day
01:32:10
and that's how my super rugy season was and then as soon as I got into the All
01:32:14
Blacks and Doc mahu like man we might need to get you go for so go for an operation and get it sorted and then so
01:32:20
it's kind of like that like You' try hang on and hang on and hang on on to a
01:32:25
point and then you just couldn't hang on anymore and then you go get it sorted
01:32:28
where today that just wouldn't happen and then coming back from it as I said
01:32:32
to you about with cams re like some of the stuff that the in the science and the in their base in Wellington is just
01:32:39
unreal like it just yeah like it's yeah I mean if if we had looked after our
01:32:46
bodies and got the what they have today but we didn't cuz that's just what it
01:32:51
was yeahp so we can't we but we can say that I'd love to be playing today's game even though it's a
01:32:58
bit different and it's struggling with crowds and it's but just the science
01:33:03
behind the trainings and everything like that could be cool yeah but then but then we had all the crowds and all the
01:33:10
HOA and people and whatever yeah what why hasn't like in the in the 22 years
01:33:16
or whatever since you stopped why has no one been able to do what you do in terms
01:33:20
of like stepping off both feet and just that speed and running past people I don't know mate I mean just just too
01:33:29
good I don't know like I always say now like if you're a good athlete like it' be hard not to be a
01:33:36
good rugby player just because of the information that they can feed you now like it's and and then you'll get you
01:33:43
get that guy and then you'll get like a bat and Barrett who has the X Factor and
01:33:48
then feed them all the information like it's just hard not to be a good R rugby
01:33:52
player like I don't know like it's we back in our day I don't know everyone
01:33:57
you just get expect the players would stand out because all our training I don't know how good our trainings were I
01:34:03
remember the rehab I had for my knee when I come back was [ __ ] [ __ ] like yeah but then at the time it would have
01:34:10
been the state-ofthe-art it would have been the the the absolute best advice available right yeah yeah yeah yeah
01:34:15
wouldn't it like well yeah well yeah probably yeah well yeah I was playing for the with the or so yeah but yeah
01:34:22
yeah I mean comp it's now like just alarmingly primitive yeah I and you know
01:34:26
all the all the um analysis now so defenses are better players are bigger players are stronger players are you
01:34:33
know it's just yeah this things are different so yeah one last question about Mitchell by the way thanks for
01:34:42
thanks for talking about it because I know I know that you're just indifferent
01:34:45
about it now like there's no chip on your shoulder you just I can tell it's
01:34:49
just not something that you even think about um yeah I mean look I mean if I was a room and there's a bunch of people
01:34:55
there and he was there like would I go have a beer for him well I don't know
01:34:58
but I mean I wouldn't you know I'd go see some other dude over there probably
01:35:05
first but that I don't know and I don't like people but i' go meet that guy over
01:35:09
there but yeah I have been in a room I have been in a room before where over in South Africa and he was there and yeah I
01:35:17
could see the head and I could see it moving around and I just kept them moving other
01:35:21
way and then I ended up going out and get a taxi to go back to the hotel cuz I just couldn't be bothered like I was
01:35:27
like nothing yeah nothing to nothing to say what are we going to chat about small talk I'm sh at small talk yeah um
01:35:33
they also yeah I mean it's so long ago there's no sort of need to clear the air
01:35:37
really is it what's done is done um but I was listening to James Marshall's
01:35:42
whated podcast and he had Daryl Mitchell on oh yeah who's John Mitchell's son and
01:35:46
he said he was like I don't know 9 10 11 years old at the time and he said you
01:35:50
were his favorite player and he was so mad at his dad he didn't speak to him
01:35:53
for like yeah well that's cool cuz I I think I think the Hamilton test probably won my
01:35:58
last test and when MCH was coaching and then young Mitchells come into the change room afterwards so I gave so it
01:36:05
must have been home I given him my shorts and socks and then a week later I get dropped I was like so there baby
01:36:11
white speak was there for three for three months or whatever yeah oh yeah in your in your book um you you call him a
01:36:18
dick um like do do you how do you feel about that now oh well probably probably probably was back then I mean I don't
01:36:26
know I know I know mates that have um had things to do uh mital over the years just through rugby and coaching and
01:36:35
um um training stuff and that so and I mean we all live and we learn and we improve and and he's uh and by all
01:36:43
accounts he's he's changed and he's learned and he's whatever so back then I
01:36:48
did think he was a dick just but that's probably my own selfish thing because I
01:36:53
got dropped so obviously you get dropped B from a coach you're going to think
01:36:58
he's a dick yeah also I well yeah you're you're a very fair and measured measured
01:37:05
is probably a good word for you actually you're you're a very measured person so
01:37:08
I feel like if um if a Coach dropped you but um communicated um you know fairly inaccurately the reason why like I
01:37:16
thought you you know you wouldn't call you wouldn't just call anyone a dick no
01:37:19
well yeah that's right yeah yeah yeah that is correct yeah yeah I don't like
01:37:24
conflict or I don't like yeah no yeah that sort of stuff so but then hey that's just that wasn't how it was done
01:37:30
back then right that's but yeah and you talk about him changing in that time um
01:37:36
this this podcast has been amazing so far you're um yeah hard to imagine you know this Christian here
01:37:44
being the same as Christian from like when we first met 20 25 years ago whatever well I've seen interviews back
01:37:49
then Dom and I was a very very much a yes no guy well I I get the feeling like if you had a good game like that second
01:37:56
test against Scotland where you scored four drives you you're probably like more nervous about like being
01:38:00
interviewed after the game than the game itself correct oh no we have to do media get
01:38:06
some the match you're kidding me yeah somebody else oh um oh let's yeah move I
01:38:15
Ireland was isand a good time you enjoy your time over there yeah Island was really interesting so when my last game
01:38:20
in Wellington I um when I came off to that a few people clapping i' hurt my shoulder and like I couldn't lift it so
01:38:28
we thought it was just a bit of nerve stuff and it um and so phys and doctor said I know you'll come right um it
01:38:33
should be right and so I went off and did a book to her for whatever two weeks and then got on a plane flew to
01:38:38
Island and then yeah when I got there like it just didn't come right so to to credit to monster like they
01:38:47
could have said uh R rip your contract up see you later go back to New Zealand so I pretty much got there had to three
01:38:53
weeks my arm not coming right went to Physio then went to the doctor and then sent me to surgeon so I pretty much got
01:38:58
an operation and was out for six so I got there then I was out for six months with my shoulder so I was like you know
01:39:06
turning up to the trainings watching the guys my arms in a sling so it wasn't a
01:39:10
great yeah it wasn't a great start um you feel guilty like when you've been
01:39:15
paid good money and you you know well yeah yeah yeah a little bit I mean it's
01:39:19
I mean you want to go over there make a good impression and and not be injured so it I mean hey it's it's tough going
01:39:25
somewhere new anyway in in a new environment but going there and then being injured straight off the bat it's
01:39:31
like who's this guy come over from bloody New Zealand Christian Kellen he's
01:39:34
bloody injured um it's like we we wanted Christian Kell from the or but inste we
01:39:38
got Christian King from Teemu yeah pretty much yeah so I mean it was really because I guess it was the start of
01:39:46
players G especially to like the monster so we turned up there like like my Visa
01:39:51
was all sorted cuz I had to play players Visa or whatever they sort that but you
01:39:55
know my partner man him more wife it now like they had we turned up to the customs and Cork Airport and was like
01:40:02
where's your Visa like uh trying to look for the monster guys out through the
01:40:06
Customs I don't know you know so it was a bit like that so that they had sorted
01:40:10
her out so we had to get you know was it was a [ __ ] it was a mess so we had to
01:40:15
yeah say oh she's just on holiday and then got her through and then went to send something back to get a Visa so it
01:40:22
was all really really messy for that and then I was injured and so it was just the balls up for the first year pretty
01:40:28
much and then come back and after a year come back had a really good run of about
01:40:32
40 OD games and then I did my other shoulder so yeah so I mean it was and then went and then then the IR they sent
01:40:43
me to a surgeon that would operate on your granddad and so after about a month I go oh just doesn't feel right when and
01:40:51
got it scanned and as the repair had come off then I had to go over to London to get a Aussie surgeon a sports surgeon
01:40:59
proper surgeon to redo it um so yeah like it was like a six-month injury then turned into a sort of a 10 to 11 month
01:41:07
injury um yeah then come back from that and then played another handful of games
01:41:12
and then I think like I did did my ankle quite bad then come back from that then
01:41:18
tweak the Cal and so just things were just building up over time so I had about five seasons there and
01:41:23
I I had about two and a half years with her injuries like it was just yeah so yeah by the end of it I'd had I'd had
01:41:30
enough it was quite a good people great monster were great the boys were great um yeah I didn't come home the whole
01:41:38
five years I was here like it's it's a long way like it's I don't know if you
01:41:42
ever been to Ireland you probably have but it's a long way and it's a bit of a
01:41:46
ball L to get there and the only good thing over there was it was cheap to go on holidays like to Greece and to Spain
01:41:53
and and so we had a lot of yeah a lot of pretty cool holidays to those sort of places where I just wouldn't go now cuz
01:41:59
I don't I not that Keen on sitting on a on a plane for 15 20 hours to go anywhere like so we did a lot of that
01:42:07
traveling over there then yeah um oh this is pre kids as well right pre kids we did uh we adopted a um box of dog
01:42:14
over there which was um yeah was pretty cool so that's right what was his name
01:42:19
Austin Austin that's right it belonged to like a myth head next door yeah yeah
01:42:23
yeah not that we're in a bad area or anything but this guy but yeah this dog
01:42:26
used to jump boxer he was awesome used to jump over this pretty fence as tall as you and we'd walk and we'd have him
01:42:32
for two or three days and we go back knock on the Stew's door like M we got your dog oh yeah and then he would jump
01:42:36
back over our fence the next day and then we ended up going going to the police and saying oh what Eric we should
01:42:41
do and they said well as he go down to the vets SE he's thing and he wasn't so
01:42:46
we got a chipping him and and then we just kept him another dude next door to him even care but he ended up being the
01:42:52
best dog ever us a um prettyy much a first class ticket to get home yeah I remember you remember your dad saying at
01:42:58
the time like when you were um foring at all this money to get the dog home he was like [ __ ] better not get run over
01:43:03
him the first week oh oh he was choice so like it was um it was a boxer big white thing patch on his eye like it was
01:43:11
one of a kind but yeah you couldn't I couldn't leave him there so we had to
01:43:16
yeah we had to get him home and yeah he had a pretty good life when he got home and you know down the beach and yes so I
01:43:22
was pretty happy even I think he might have cost 15 grand to get home you can't put a can't put a price
01:43:28
on that though can you no no no you don't you got a few good years out of him too absolutely yeah he is great um
01:43:35
oh I've got on my notes to talk about lock lockdown games and and on Instagram
01:43:40
how good was that so you're you're not very active on social media but um yeah
01:43:43
during the co lockdown you've got um nice house with a big Plott land um these clips were going off golfing Clips
01:43:50
rugby Clips yeah well I've seen uh SE Carlos doing a few so I said oh yeah I
01:43:55
can do that so yeah we uh and plus joined that lockdown stuff he like um the weather was pretty nice and got
01:44:01
outside and yeah so set a few of them up and yeah a few basketball ones and uh rugby balls and golf ones and yeah and
01:44:10
it took some of them some of them took quite a long time to do but others like were legit like
01:44:19
took me two or three and I'd be like 20 30 m back and they' be one of two throws
01:44:23
and you get it in you that's like sometimes you go you look pretty shocked but now they're pretty fun to do and
01:44:28
then the kids are out there trying to do them and yeah that was good fun yeah still got it eh not that we W another
01:44:33
lockdown but no no no but that was good fun it looked like um yeah I thought about that when I saw you and you you
01:44:39
just at home and you've got a very nice house everything you need there and you're surrounded with your kids and
01:44:43
your wife um I feel like lockdown would have been quite enjoyable for you have if you could have access to the golf
01:44:50
course as well yeah yeah well we could have we still could have well where we are I can hit a wedge
01:44:55
probably we can hit a wedge out there so I was doing some golf uh some golf ones
01:44:59
into a bucket and uh and that sort of stuff so that was good good fun then you I don't know yeah I'm not not big on
01:45:06
social media I'm yeah more get the kids or the or the wife to post stuff but
01:45:11
yeah I don't really know how to do it you you're not even big on texting like
01:45:14
I'll I'll send you like a big message like a paragraph and you'll just reply
01:45:18
maybe straight away maybe a day maybe two days later just the shakerra Emoji sh BR is that not easy though it's easy
01:45:26
yeah yeah I like that uh what the GI I sent cuz Treasure Island started last night so MSY sent me a um oh you know
01:45:36
getting a bit nervous and I just sent him that gift with hom Simpson going back into the
01:45:41
bush no words neither sometimes yeah I'm not sometimes you talk people talk too
01:45:46
much and you don't need too many words yeah yeah it's pretty easy yeah look at
01:45:50
you experimenting with GS yeah yeah yeah took me a while to find them though um yeah what about you are you proud of
01:45:58
yourself uh well yeah I guess yeah I guess so it's um I don't know it's it's pretty cool
01:46:06
now that uh you know your kids are a bit older than they can see stuff that you you used to do and they' watch stuff on
01:46:14
YouTube [Music] and yeah so it it was part of your life that was was a lot of fun and did ride
01:46:23
and yeah I mean the one thing you're probably proud of is you know uh the All
01:46:31
Blacks have have been going since I think like 1890 or you know the early 1900s and there's not many of us I think
01:46:40
I know I don't know what the name what it is now I think I was all black number
01:46:44
nine i' just say 972 or 976 or something so and now it might be whatever but
01:46:50
there's not many of us over sh however a long it is over 100 plus odd years so I
01:46:57
think that's a pretty cool a pretty cool group to be in and I think the the cool
01:47:02
thing about the group is wherever you go if you go into a room and I'm there
01:47:08
there might be a guy from the the 1970s or 60s like you've got something in common straight away and you can
01:47:15
generally just have a chat about stuff and I think that's really that's really
01:47:20
cool like I get on quite well with some of of the the older generation which is cool it's great that's special and and
01:47:29
um yeah you did so much in in a relatively short career like oh like bod is um just nipping on your heels in the
01:47:36
um in the overall TriCore States I think he's like two behind you or something is
01:47:40
he I think so oh come on mate how many games have he had though oh yeah yeah that's true you look at his games he's
01:47:46
over 100 y yeah yeah yeah yeah so um yeah does does that um yeah do the stats or records or anything things that to
01:47:53
bother you or not really no no no I mean records are made to be broken and apart
01:47:58
from the Hong Kong one yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but yeah know that's uh I guess yeah I mean that's I guess
01:48:06
they're knocking that what not they're doing that Stadium but yeah that one
01:48:09
will stand forever but yeah I mean all black records and that like um it's when we were there that was cool
01:48:16
you you got a record you got the tri scoring record but yeah mate you know will Jordan if he sticks around in New
01:48:22
Zealand he'll break or I think that he'll break tric records in New Zealand
01:48:27
you know I said that the other day you know one thing that I about podcast and all these [ __ ] that you do with the
01:48:32
media and that is how people take little things that you say and they put it up there but they don't get the context of
01:48:37
what you've actually said that [ __ ] really pusses me off you know I was like
01:48:40
you know will Jordan will break you know Tri SC records you know and I was meeting New Zealand and someone gets it
01:48:45
up there about you know he's going to break every Tri score and there's some
01:48:48
guy in Japan that scored [ __ ] 100 or something and I'm going well I wasn't
01:48:52
talking about that guy yeah yeah yeah just but but I just think yeah I mean records are made to be broken and credit
01:48:57
to and great if people do it like that's you know I won't feel bad if I go down
01:49:03
the list like [ __ ] that's awesome to see guys yeah doing well how's it how's your
01:49:09
mental health been over the years oh pretty I mean pretty good I like so how old are you now what are you 40 48 yeah
01:49:16
cuz you don't yeah you don't get to I mean it's a privilege to be the age we
01:49:19
are like you're 48 I'm 51 you don't get to this age without going through some
01:49:23
sort of adversity eh yeah I mean I [ __ ] we all know like you know with uh marriages and wives and like there's not
01:49:31
that I've had wives but you know you have your ups and downs I'm pretty I don't know I'm pretty you're so
01:49:37
measured like pretty like that like there are very much ups and downs but and yeah like I'm sure Mandy will agree
01:49:46
with me like marriage is sometimes hard and kids are hard and things happened and
01:49:51
um yeah yeah but you sort of just find a way I'm very I think I'm very loyal
01:49:58
and uh yeah and I see the best in people and just don't yeah I know not not saying that but people can
01:50:09
just go oh man this is too hard like I'm done but I'm very much man like hang in
01:50:15
there and things will get better and yeah but mental health I don't know like
01:50:21
I've yeah yeah I don't know I mean I she's I know I know like with Mandy and some of the
01:50:28
stuff that she's been through with her family and brothers and you know that's
01:50:32
tough like I don't know if I could you know some of that stuff is hard like whether it's suicide or or brothers
01:50:39
brother ding of cancer like oh that's right she's had had both those things
01:50:43
with two brother that stuff is you know for people to get through that yeah like
01:50:49
and that was that was really hard like going up to you know and there that's
01:50:53
one of the reasons why we I did Treasure Island was for the brain brain tumor support um charity was that was one of
01:51:01
the big reasons and yeah it's hard uh yeah it's hard it was hard seeing him
01:51:07
sort of those last two or three months yeah but my mental health yeah I mean yeah I have I don't have massive Mass
01:51:16
highs or massive massive lows like I'm I was just going to say that I've never
01:51:20
seen you like if it was a 1 to 10 scale I think I've never seen you like lower
01:51:24
than a three or higher than an eight like you're just always sort of in that
01:51:28
middle band which is probably the best place to be yeah I always say my mental health days are my golf days so if it's
01:51:34
raining and it's [ __ ] weather and there's you know you wake up on a Friday
01:51:37
and there's uh and it's pissing out rain I'm like no golf today I I need my
01:51:43
golf yeah yeah what you were saying before just doubling back on um your loyalty and stuff I mean it's impossible
01:51:50
to argue with that because it's just it's facts I mean you in Pata umu which
01:51:53
is next sub over from piki so you could be close to your family presumably played your entire career and um the
01:52:00
Wellington sort of regions and um and on a like on a on a personal level um I I don't I don't want really want to
01:52:09
elaborate on this too much unless you want to but um like about uh maybe 10 12 years ago like I asked you for a favor
01:52:16
and I I thought it was going to be like a 50/50 favor at best and you um you and
01:52:21
Mandy discussed and you came back to me the next day with a a yes straight away and it was like one of the one of the
01:52:26
one of the the biggest favors I could have ever asked of somebody um and the fact that um that you know you you you
01:52:33
did it and everything that it entailed um that's something that I'll never
01:52:37
forget like that level of loyalty like I was going through a really tough um tough time at that point and uh it was
01:52:42
the most um unselfish and loyal thing and uh I I've you know just got a huge
01:52:48
Deb of gratitude so like if you ever needed anything I'd be there for you because you know yeah oh yeah it was
01:52:54
massive oh yeah I mean my um my circle of friends is pretty pretty small and you know probably like you and I we you
01:53:00
know I always say we're not like I'm not this is anything against woman but we
01:53:05
don't need to talk every day to each other sometimes you don't even need to
01:53:09
reply to my text like it could be 6 months a year or whatever or or not might even be a word of year it might be
01:53:15
a little uh whatever you call that well we live different ends of the country but it's nice I picked you up from the
01:53:19
airport today and it's been bloody great yeah so I mean I'm yeah I'm I'm very low
01:53:23
to to the to that to my group of mates um yeah and it's very very small which
01:53:29
is probably as we get as you get older you probably know like it's you can weed
01:53:33
people out that don't really add any value to your life or they just make things hard or whatever and just keep
01:53:39
the people that are in there that um that you enjoy and that you that you want in there yeah I think that's
01:53:46
probably a good place to end it is there anything that you wanted to discuss that
01:53:49
we haven't brought up I know the answer to that it's a it's a no way can you
01:53:55
believe is this your longest podcast must be a you you haven't done many how
01:53:58
long is that uh 154 so how how long do you cut that down to oh if you want anything cut out I'll cut it out but
01:54:06
otherwise it will remain as is it's an hour shorter than Justin Marshall an hour
01:54:12
shorter [ __ ] well that's a [ __ ] I'm happy with that he's fire right three
01:54:17
hours marshy all right hey Christian Ken my friend thanks for on the podcast finally yeah no was uh hour 50 so uh
01:54:29
it's what's an hour probably more than I thought mate it's all good though
01:54:32
enjoyed it how have you how's it been like you know you know the players how
01:54:36
on the the Sunday paper they'll give each player like a a rating yeah how would you rate the podcast
01:54:43
experience well you know you're you're probably one of the only podcast I do
01:54:47
listen to Dom so you're right up there player ratings seven and a half eight
01:54:52
out of 10 room for improvement shaky start yeah I did get my coffee and I it was meant to be hot but it was uh yeah
01:55:00
wasn't quite hot but that's probably where you're losing a point and a half
01:55:03
maybe small complaint yeah all right hey Kelly thanks mate appreciate it sweet is