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Michael Aring, welcome to my podcast. >> Good day, mate. Good to be here. I've
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been uh I've been checking you out and uh yeah, a lot of fun. You have a lot of
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fun here, don't you? So, it's uh good to be here. >> Thanks. Good to have you here. Yeah. Um
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a friend of yours has messaged me saying, "Oh, you should get Mike Aring on the podcast." And um I I I messaged
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Why did you want to do a podcast? I uh to be honest with you, Dom, I mean I um as you know u you know from from
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speaking to you before we came on air I um I've I've had a bit of bad health
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over the last 10 years and um and I've had a bit of bad press as well which we'll probably touch on and and it and
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it and it knocked me for six at the time you know and it was really harsh. It destroyed business that I had. I work
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with special needs kids. Uh and so the bad reference I got, you know, from from the media basically uh killed my
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business and and it really put me in a bad light. And um I've sort of taken quite a few years now just to just to
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basically get back to being okay with being me, >> you know what I mean? And u and so um
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Tracy said to me, "Look, Dom does these wonderful podcasts. Have a look." So I
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had a look. I I watched the full uh Christian Cullen one. What a legend. What a legend. And I've seen him at a
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few engagements before in the past. He's a nice guy to chat to and uh and I thought, yeah, I'm probably at the stage
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now where I'm a bit more confident and I'm happy again with life and uh >> and get in there, you know, be a bit of
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fun. We'll have a I'm sure we've got a lot of good things to talk about.
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>> Absolutely. So, who is Michaeling? Is he like a lar, a bad boy, a con man, an
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alcoholic? I used to be I think been described as a likable rogue. I think that would be a nice way
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to describe me. I um I was just a guy who came from nothing in Wellington. You know, I came from a a you know, a broken
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family. We had I was the youngest of four kids and dad left when I was 10 and my mom battled. You know, mom's a nurse
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and um you know, my my outlet I never got in trouble with police or anything like that when I was a kid and my outlet
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was sport. I was uh I was, you know, probably bit better than average at sport and I I took on every sport that I
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was able to and uh I lived in a little street in Nio in Wellington and it was just ideal for for for a breeding ground
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for sports people because me and my mates just used to play cricket or soccer and rugby and uh go home, stay
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home, hide and seek every day. And uh and and another good thing that I when I look back now and uh I used to live
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about 5 km from school which meant walking there and back each day >> barefoot in the snow
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>> mate. Hated it. Hated it you know. But looking back now that gave me a good
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basis for a uh you know for my fitness level >> and it also gave me a determination. you
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know, you finish a long day at school and you're just looking at the top of the hill cuz it's way up a hill where we
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lived. >> You think, I don't want to walk up there, but you do it and you just do the
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hard yards. And it sort of gave me a good a uh a good a good starting point for my uh my sporting career, I suppose.
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>> Yeah, there's there's so much to unpack. I I wasn't aware of like when when we
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organized this podcast, I wasn't aware of the backstory. I just knew Michael
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Arting, you know, the White Fern, the goalie, um who had a career that was briefer than what I should have been.
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Definitely. >> Um, and then you do some research. Do do you do you just attract chaos?
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>> I seem to. I I think you touch wood. I I won't be getting much more for the for
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the near future, but I uh I um I I think with being a sports person, you you have a lot of free time and
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quite often you associate yourself with other people have free time and they're quite often
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not the most desirable people that you want to be with. And I and I made poor choices in the past, I must admit. And
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um you know it all comes back to haunt you at a later stage in life. I think uh I've never gone out of my way to be to
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be upsetting or upset people and uh >> but uh you know when you're in the
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public eye with this you know with sport um you can attract that you know you attract people's attention and um and as
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I said I got tred with a bad brush and got some poor press but um >> you know all my mates and and people
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that know me and guys and girls would be phoning me up saying I got a call from a
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reporter you know lovely complimentary and then after three or four minutes they started They're trying to get dirt
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on you and this is a repetitive thing that's happened, you know, and it's
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like, God, I just want to run away and hide. But I mean, it's >> it's life, mate. You know, it's people
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trying to get a story and that. >> Well, yeah, we'll get into some of that.
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We'll get into some of the good stuff first, though. >> Um, yeah. It's like I was saying to you
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before, these podcasts, I feel like it's like the greatest the greatest hits and
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the greatest shits of someone's life. Like the good and the good and the bad.
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Um, cuz I think we're all flawed human beings in a way, aren't we? Everyone's
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got some [ __ ] Um, but yeah. Yeah. What's it like? like sitting in front of
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me now as a a man in his 50s to be like the the villain in so many other people's stories.
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You know what I mean? >> 100%. I think um I I I don't need to um you know there's there's there's been a
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few people that have actually um had an agenda out for me, you know, and and uh over the years and
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>> and ex partners or whatever. I'm not I'm not going to get and point the finger
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and name names or anything like there's no point, you know, it's in the past.
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But uh but yeah, I I didn't do myself any favors at times storm, so I left myself up there for really cool and uh
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and I got it. >> Yeah. Yeah. There's a quote from you that I read in an article. Um I believe
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what goes around comes around. If you're a good person, things will happen for
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you. Are are you a good person? >> Yeah, I think so. I u you know, I'm on a
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sickness benefit now because of my health. Um I had a heart attack just over 18 months ago and actually died and
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was dead physically dead for 29 minutes. >> Uh I was with a client and I actually
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had brought us lunch. We at his house uh one of my special needs boys and uh I collapsed and woke up u well the
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paramedics came. They came like 25 minutes later revived me took me to hospital. Uh, I flatlined four times
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when I was in hospital and I woke up 5 weeks later. I I was in a coma for nearly 5 weeks. Had to learn how to walk
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and and and uh, you know, use cutlery again and all of this stuff. And um, in a way,
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as I said, you know, you've just drawn attention to, I believe in karma, what
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goes wrong comes wrong. I um I've I've gone through some tough times in life,
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you know, and it sort of grounded me at times. I also broke my neck in a car crash and got told I'd never walk again.
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This was when I was playing over in South Africa. >> Um you know, and at the moment I'm just
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just Yeah, just finally sort of slowed down a bit, I think. >> Age. Yeah. No one no one defeats time,
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right? >> No. No. >> I'll tell you what, there's there's a
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lot to unpack. Uh yeah, the the Yeah. the car crash in South Africa, the heart attack, um the bad press, and we we'll
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get through everything, but >> I thought we'll start with um start with
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the um how you got a name for yourself. So, uh you're a footballer, you're a
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goalkeeper. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Explain that role. >> Okay. Um being a goalkeeper in New
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Zealand is is is quite a uh unenviable position to be in because >> worst position in that team. I don't
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know why anyone no one no one no one gets into playing football with the dream of being a goalie, right? No, you
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want to score goals, mate. But I was just I couldn't put the ball in the net,
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so I tried to keep it out of it, you know. But I I uh played a lot of cricket, volleyball, uh and I was always
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good in the slips, you know, with my and I did wicket keeping and opened the bat
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at Wangatai College and Ian Smith, you know, the cricket legend, >> he was a Rangai boy, Bruce Sega, another
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boy, Winton Refer, Shane Rafer. Uh a lot of good uh sports people went to that school and uh and I've kept in touch
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with a lot of these people as well, you And um I went in goal basically because I didn't want to run around like the
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outfield players have to do. And so uh maybe trainings would be a bit easier for me. But but I actually found that
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goalkeepers train harder than anyone else. You know, you do do a lot of plyometrics, a lot of power work and u
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and and it can be a thankless task as well. You know, you can go for 89 minutes and have nothing to do and then
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you're called to do something. If you don't do it well, u you know, people are
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putting pointing the finger at you, you know. So it's uh but I like that. I like
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that. >> Yeah. I can't imagine the weight of responsibility like Yeah. How how does
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it feel when your team loses because you've let a goal in? Obviously, it's
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the team sports and the teams sort of rally around and they don't hold you accountable or responsible, but do you
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hold yourself accountable and responsible when that happens? >> I think it's a mental approach you take
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into a game where you you understand that that's just part and parcel for it.
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Um, you will make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. I was I was quite fortunate. I uh it's quite funny. Yeah,
00:09:03
I I I when I came when I came back to New Zealand, played for the Kings, it was and they were the first New Zealand
00:09:07
professional football team and playing in the Australian league and uh and I played in the first game and um but I
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remember you know a few games into the season. Uh we had another goalkeeper there who thought he was it, you know,
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and I was the, you know, the number one for the Kiwis as well and and this guy was talking it up and I won't name
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names, but I mean he was giving it large, you know, and saying that he should be given a chance and I pulled my
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calf muscle uh warming up before we played Sydney Olympic at Ericson Stadium one night and it was an awful night. It
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was rainy and it was wet and windy and so I couldn't play and and this guy played and it was the worst conditions
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to make your debut and he and let through three and we lost 3-2 in the last kick of the game and and that was
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one of those like getting back to you know bad situations. So it sort of put him on the back of back burner and as
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soon as I was ready to go back in the game the coach brought me in but uh I think uh
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>> yeah goalkeeping is a confidence thing. you know, if you go in there with
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confidence and uh do your job, you you generally do okay, mate. >> So, was it like a red red hot burning
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desire to play for the all whites or were you just like a natural talent and it just sort of fell into place or
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>> I I never thought that I don't know whether Do you remember the shoot
00:10:17
magazines, the football magazines or football monthly? Well, these were English uh monthly magazines for the
00:10:24
football. They used to come out and they'd get to New Zealand through the through the uh you know through the ship
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post about six months later and we used to collect them as kids and in the middle they used to have this you know
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the center was a uh was a team a team lineup each well a team photo each week and I was a big Man United supporter so
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uh you know I hope there's not too many people who hate Man United out there but
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there seems to be at the moment. Um but I um I just started playing in the street. I never thought I'd ever achieve
00:10:52
anything other than having fun with my mates. It was a way to, you know, just to uh to learn how to learn how to live
00:11:01
with other people. M um and um I never had visions of grand jur playing at any high level, you know, and uh I remember
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when I was playing in the Wellington Rep and about the under nines, under tens, Dom, and
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>> we went and played a game at the basin reserve and a young Winton roofer was
00:11:20
playing for Murma in the National League and he was probably only 18 years old and it was before he hit the limelight
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with the all whites of 82 and that and and I looked at this guy and he was amazing. And I looked at the
00:11:30
goalkeepers. Wayne Nichols was a goalkeeper there. Miramar legend and and also a softball legend. Played softball
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for New Zealand. He took me under under his wing. He coached our first 11 team at Rangai College. Got me involved and
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then he got me along to uh to Morama trainings on a Tuesday and a Thursday afternoon or evening and I just I just
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developed a love for it. I also had nothing else in my life mate to be honest with you. I didn't have uh money.
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I didn't have wealth. We didn't have a a lot going on at home. So, uh it was
00:12:01
something to keep me fit, keep me active, and uh a socializing aspect as well. Later in life, obviously too much
00:12:07
of the socializing aspect possibly, but uh but it was just a really nice way to,
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you know, get to meet people and then later on see the world. So, yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Seeing the
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world. Um by the way, you mentioned Wellington there. You you um were inducted into the Wellington Hall of
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Fame, uh Football Hall of Fame 2017. >> Yeah. That's pretty cool. >> Amazing. I mean, I um yeah, I'm just
00:12:30
very flattered. I um >> I I was very And I'd love to just draw reference to the family, the Chot, the
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David, Mark, Matthew, and uh Peter Chot. They were still at the Miramar Rangers Club and that's my Wellington club. And
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um it's the only time I played for Wellington or would have um and their mom and dad, Judy and Ian, used to run
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the club basically. they were on the committee and Jude used to look after the four boys and I asked Jude to come
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with me to the induction of Wellington Hall of uh you know football hall of fame but she was she wasn't able to you
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know because of her health but uh that was probably one of my most um proudest moments
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>> cuz I had people friends and you know the football fraternity were there and
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uh and it was sort of a celebration of what I'd achieved and I'm I'm flattered
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to be in that you know to be in that with the likes of the Winon Roofers and Grant Turners. Vaughn Coven and I used
00:13:29
to knock around as as teenagers, mate. And uh >> he he he he ended up I think before
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Shane Smeltz broke his record. He was the highest goal scorer for the whites for a number of years and and we were
00:13:41
just two bloss bucks each in our pocket on a Thursday night and go down to arena
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with Ray John's and get on it and uh >> and and and play football on the
00:13:51
weekend. That was our life. We just loved it. That's we we lived like we were professional footballers. Uh I
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wouldn't say in the way we acted all the time but but football was our everything
00:14:02
and uh and you sort of need that um you need that focus a lot of people and I remember talking to Declan Edge who is a
00:14:10
very good ex New Zealand all whites coach uh sorry player and national league coach and he's coaching overseas
00:14:16
now and he said to me um you know did do you ever have a backup did you have a backup plan if the football didn't go
00:14:23
well and I said no I never did. And he goes, "Well, no footballer does, mate."
00:14:28
You know, it's everything or nothing, isn't it? You know, >> uh cuz if you do have a backup plan sort
00:14:33
of thing, well, you've got to you've got to get out and uh claws, you know, and
00:14:38
uh and footballers are so >> Oh, you've got to be competitive because it's a small market
00:14:44
>> and and and if you look at the players in, you know, who are playing at the top
00:14:47
leagues in the world, they're getting paid quite handsomely, >> but they've uh they've earned it, you
00:14:53
know, they've worked hard for it, you know. >> Yeah. Did you did you earn all right?
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>> I made good money when I was when I was in South Africa. I I played a season in
00:15:03
Australia before went over to South Africa and what had happened Ian Marshall, rest in peace, he he was ex
00:15:08
New Zealand coach uh with your whites, he uh he had received a call from a state club in Melbourne and they'd been
00:15:15
looking for a goalkeeper and I was in New Zealand under 23 goalkeeper. I think I was 21 or 20 at the time and he said,
00:15:21
"Would you like to go away to Melbourne and play for his team called Sunshine
00:15:24
George Cross?" Maltes, absolute nutters. They used to fire flares across the
00:15:29
pitch. I used to love it. I was in my element, you know, but they were absolutely crazy. And and the and the
00:15:35
club, they would have two or three thousand to a game and the supporters would be fanatical. It was like, you
00:15:42
know, this is in Melbourne. It's like we used to call it [ __ ] Ball over there. So
00:15:45
all the ethnic communities, the Greeks, the Italians, Yuguslavas, Croatians, they all had their club and it was a
00:15:52
whole identity with the community as well. And people would donate money to the club and they'd spend their weekends
00:15:58
there. And I got involved with, you know, this the Sunshine George cross team, which that's Maltise. And and I
00:16:05
lived there with an old guy in his house and, you know, did the six weeks. We got
00:16:08
into the playoffs, end up losing the semi-final, but I was in love with Australian football cuz it was a step up
00:16:13
from New Zealand stuff, you know, and uh and then I went and played um I signed for for Melbourne or Melbourne Victory
00:16:20
as they're called now, but they were called South Melbourne, the Greeks. and
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I couldn't get a game because I had a Greek goalkeeper in goal and his father
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was one of the sponsors and uh well that's my excuse anyway but uh but I u he got he actually got sent off in a
00:16:34
game and u so I had three games to sort of prove myself and we won all three I concealed one goal but as soon as the
00:16:40
guy was over a suspension I got dropped again so at the end of that season uh they wanted me to come back and sign for
00:16:47
another year and they owed me quite a bit of money about $40,000 >> um and I said, um, I'm not going to sign
00:16:56
for you unless you pay me my money. That's owed to me, you know. And, um, and I shouldn't probably say this, but,
00:17:03
uh, a lot of these clubs have one books for the for the accountants and another books which they keep sort of, you know,
00:17:11
>> oh, like a salary cap thing. Okay. >> So, there's I think that's quite common
00:17:15
in the in the NRL as well. >> M, it used to be huge. >> Maybe not so much anymore.
00:17:18
>> No, no, not anymore. But don back in those days it was there were a lot of
00:17:22
backhanders and people getting you know we have a have a sponsor that's a car or
00:17:26
something you get a free car that's and everything's got to be extremely down
00:17:30
the line now but uh but I uh yeah so I end up you know going I I'd finished a
00:17:36
season they owed me money they weren't going to pay it to me unless I signed
00:17:38
another contract. So, I went and visited. I flew over to South Africa. I I had $800, I think, and and uh to my
00:17:46
name and had a couple of bags of clothes and I took my football gear and I went over to visit my father who lives in
00:17:51
Durban. He's a Kiwi, but he lives over in South Africa and uh flew over there
00:17:55
and u trained for his unit. He's a professor in civil engineering and university of Natal. So, uh lived with
00:18:02
my dad and in Durban was wonderful. I love South Africa and trained with the uh university team. They have a team in
00:18:08
the second division over there. Um, and after two days, I got a call from a club
00:18:14
called Ptoria City that's actually uh owned by Emnet Super Sport. Uh, so big
00:18:21
sponsor. It's a new new club. Excuse me. And they uh wanted to sign me. So I
00:18:27
thought, well, you have to sort out this. I'm still on the books at this club in Melbourne in
00:18:32
Australia. So I had an agent called Peter Alfahaida. uh German guy and uh he jumped on a plane with about $170,000
00:18:43
cash on him and he went and paid a uh a transfer fee to me for me in Melbourne, got my clearance and then I ended up
00:18:52
spending about nine years in South Africa >> and uh >> Wow. Yeah. I I didn't I didn't realize
00:18:58
your dad was in South Africa. That makes makes so much more sense how you ended up over there now. Yeah. What about um
00:19:04
culture shocks or standout memories from playing in EA? >> I loved it. I live in South Africa. I um
00:19:09
>> I've never been there. Everyone goes on about how dangerous it is and how you're
00:19:12
likely to get carjacked at an intersection. >> No. No. That's [ __ ] mate. I mean,
00:19:17
it's >> like any place you can find trouble if you want. >> Find it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I mean I I
00:19:21
often used to go out and uh when I went out with people from the club would you know go out with dignitaries from the
00:19:26
club and they'd be packing heat you know carrying guns with them and we'd go to
00:19:31
nightclubs and you you'd walk into the nightclub and on the left hand side of
00:19:34
the door there's a lovely lady in a kiosk and u takes your jackets and and ask you to come into the weapon room if
00:19:41
you've got a gun and hand in your gun >> like a cloak room. Yeah, it's exactly
00:19:46
what it is. But it was a big walk-in safe. And I used to go to these places and I had a lot of mates who, you know,
00:19:50
own clubs and that and rang managed clubs. And I used to go on and uh go into the game into the gun rooms or the
00:19:58
safes and I was a m you'd see sorn off shotguns and machetes and little hand
00:20:05
pistols. And I'm thinking, mate, it's like it's something from a 1930s old
00:20:09
Capone movie or something. But that's how people lived in South Africa. Well,
00:20:14
well, that that sounds pretty unsafe to me. >> Yeah. No, it is. It is. But I mean, it's
00:20:20
um you know, you sort of get accustomed to it, you know, you get you get used to
00:20:25
I mean, >> you know, you all your windows have burglar bars on them and there's razor
00:20:30
wire around your property, you know, boundaries and that and u most people have a couple of big dogs. We My dad had
00:20:36
these three beautiful tanned Great Danes and they were huge. And remember one night I went to the local bar and walked
00:20:42
home and it was you know after midnight so dad had locked the gates and everything and I couldn't get through
00:20:47
the gate. I was legless. So, I I fell asleep on the driveway and uh and uh in the morning I woke up at 6:30 in the
00:20:56
morning and all these people walking, you know, past the, you know, the house, the driveway to to work and I had three
00:21:02
great Danes that had jumped the fence and were lying sleeping with their heads on my chest and over my waist sort of
00:21:09
thing looking after me and I felt felt like great. >> But, uh yeah, probably a bit of a loose
00:21:15
unit there, mate. So, doing things I probably shouldn't have been doing. Yeah.
00:21:18
>> So yeah, it was um 1995 in South Africa where you broke your neck in a car
00:21:22
crash. Yeah. Yeah. What was the story with that? What happened there? >> I um on a Thursday night we uh we'd had
00:21:27
training that morning and um we had a big game against Kaiser Chiefs. You know, Kaiser Chiefs and Orlando Pirates
00:21:32
are the are the biggest supported clubs in Africa or in South Africa. >> And uh so we were playing Chiefs, big
00:21:38
game live on TV uh on the on the Saturday, Thursday night uh Saturday, Sunday. We were playing Thursday night.
00:21:46
Uh I was invited to a uh back in those days, Don, because of my lifestyle, the free time I had was often spent in bars
00:21:56
drinking beer, >> uh because that's what I enjoyed doing at the time. And and you know, and and
00:22:01
and it was fun. So, a met of mine, Jose Olivera, Portuguese lad. He ran a cantina fiesta, which is a Mexican
00:22:11
Portuguese type themed restaurant bar. And um on the Thursday night, he's he's
00:22:17
funny. I was actually best man at his wedding. He and Zola um his his his fiance at the time. Uh I was they
00:22:25
invited me to the wedding as best man. But um we uh on the Thursday night I got a call at about HA state and they said
00:22:32
look you know you've got to come down cuz they were moving to Durban from Ptoria to Durban and they said you've
00:22:37
got to come down have a couple of drinks and I said mate I've got a huge game
00:22:39
this weekend I can't it's two days out and they said okay no worries and then
00:22:44
15 minutes later there's a knock on my door and there's four of my mates from
00:22:47
the bar and uh basically kidnapped me and took me back there got on the on the drink you know and and and and I'm an
00:22:55
alcoholic so It's uh pretty easy for me to, you know, to for them to twist my
00:22:59
arm. So, I was always a all or nothing sort of thing. I could I could go without alcohol, which I, you know, I
00:23:05
haven't had a drink for just on a year now. I don't drink. Um, and you know,
00:23:09
but today I don't drink. Tomorrow I hope not to as well, but it's about, you
00:23:13
know, it's just on a year now that I haven't had a drink. Um, but I uh got
00:23:17
down there with the guys, got on it. And then uh decided because you do stupid things when you're having a few that
00:23:24
we'd go to uh uh Sun City which was you know an hour drive away. So well you
00:23:32
wouldn't know that but yeah it's an hour drive away. So we got in the car to
00:23:35
drive to Sun City. I was a passenger in a car in the car. Um woke up the next day in hospital and we we had missed a
00:23:43
turn off to a petrol station and rolled the car apparently five times down a bank. woke up in sort of like of a
00:23:50
swamp. Um, luckily uh I I'd cracked my skull. I had 47 stitches in my head. Uh,
00:23:57
but if I hadn't have cracked my skull that the swelling on my brain, uh, would
00:24:01
have made me brain dead, uh, because of the, you know, because of the swelling. But because I cracked my skull, it was
00:24:07
able to, you know, to push it out out and swell without sort of long-term injuries. Um, they took some bone out of
00:24:14
my hip, put it on my neck. I broke my neck put I had a fusion of the fifth and sixth vertebrae. Uh lost 80% of the
00:24:21
hearing in my left ear. Uh and just yeah just my father when he came up from Durban to you know see me
00:24:29
in hospital he couldn't he couldn't recognize me. Um so I uh I did it properly mate. Yeah. And uh I got told
00:24:37
I'd never walk again but I ended up walking about I think it was 12 weeks later. determined,
00:24:45
>> bit of a determined guy at times, mate, and uh and driven. And I just decided,
00:24:50
you know, I wasn't happy with my life anyway. Um although I was getting paid
00:24:54
good money to play a professional game, which I love doing, I wasn't happy because I just wasn't happy, you know,
00:24:59
and and I was doing things like drinking excessively and that um womanizing, you
00:25:05
know, I wasn't in a relationship. I was never really in a good relationship because I was just a dick looking after
00:25:09
himself. But I uh how can I put it? I uh I actually thought at the time that was probably
00:25:17
the best thing that could have happened to me because it sort of made me sort of
00:25:20
slow down and you know look at where I'm at. And um >> and I I I kept a diary I after after
00:25:29
this after I started walking again and I had nothing. And I ended up sleeping on
00:25:35
a mate's couch and u he is a mate of mine who who uh I met you know he had never known me as a footballer but uh we
00:25:44
used to talk about football. He's a man United supporter. We used to have hours
00:25:47
of conversation about the game and and I used to tell him that when I used to play this and that and he thought I was
00:25:51
full of [ __ ] you know and anyway we decided to get fit and uh we got fit together. Uh I lived in a house with I
00:25:59
moved into a house with uh he or him and his and his wife. His wife's from Swaziland Togo a black lady and she's
00:26:07
just beautiful beautiful and Nuku that was her sister and they had a she Nuku had a child 5-year-old boy called
00:26:16
Wandeli little black dude and uh used to take him to school in the mornings and you know pick him up from school
00:26:22
afterwards and uh and and I became part of their family and Kevin and I got fit and I used to get him you know getting
00:26:30
him into the gym and do running. he was a big boy and um we decided to start kicking a soccer ball. So we'd go into
00:26:37
the park and we'd, you know, if you got a soccer ball in South Africa, you've
00:26:40
always got to have a game because everyone wants to play, you know, and >> so I ended up having to kick around and
00:26:44
got super fit and I thought, wow, I'm not doing anything with my life, but I've got a plate in my neck with four
00:26:50
screws. >> Is any chance of me playing any sort of football at any level? And I went back
00:26:55
to see my neurosurgeon, an African lady in Ptoria, and she said, "Look, I'm I'm
00:27:00
shocked with how fit you are." I was super fit. I had a body fat percentage
00:27:04
of 4% and I was really cut and just as the fittest I'd ever been in my life and
00:27:09
so I started training again and um and I went back to my old club Super Sport United and I said can I train with you
00:27:15
guys and the coach there said yeah look we've got the national goalkeeper for
00:27:19
South Africa we've got one of the under 23 first oh sorry we've got the under23
00:27:23
goalkeeper South Africa and we've got a couple of other guys on our books one
00:27:27
Perry Suckling who used to play for Crystal Palace in England who's sort of a player coach so we've got our quote of
00:27:32
goalkeepers, but you're more than welcome to come along, Michael, and and spend some time with the boys and be
00:27:37
good to see you and and and and get what you can out of it. So, so I went and trained with Super Sport and it's funny,
00:27:43
Tom, how things have a way of working themselves out, you know, and like we talked earlier about the karma, you
00:27:47
know, what goes around comes around and so I trained with these guys for about four weeks. I was killing it. I was on I
00:27:53
was the fittest in the club and and that's from with the outfield play as well. I could run all day. Um anyway,
00:28:01
they played a game one night and I watched it on a Wednesday night. The goalkeeper got sent off, the guy that
00:28:06
came on got injured. So, so the next week they had a young guy in goal. Um and on the Thursday,
00:28:16
uh so they basically only had one goalkeeper and and and and on the Thursday he got injured. So they said,
00:28:22
"Well, look, we'll give the Kiwi a go." So they they signed me up um on a week-
00:28:27
toeek contract. So basically as soon as the goalkeepers are back they're going
00:28:31
to give me the flick you know. So so I knew that and I said to myself and you know the people I living with my you
00:28:36
know my family they used to come and watch me and sit in the players lounge you know it's Nuku Togo and Kevin and
00:28:42
Weli and uh and I said to them guys I get a thousand bucks a week if I play and then we get bonuses for winning.
00:28:51
If I don't do well they've got an excuse to to get rid of me. So I've got to play
00:28:56
like a king. So I've got I played 17 games for them and uh and got nine man in the matches. Uh so I played the best
00:29:04
football I've ever played. Ken Dougal, who was the New Zealand coach at the time, he flew over to see me and it was
00:29:10
you how it all works out and and he and he pulled me into the uh Confederation's
00:29:14
Cup squad in in 1999. Uh took me away to Mexico. So Support ended up signing me in a long-term Oh,
00:29:22
no, no, no, no, no. I went overseas with the New Zealand AllWH whites to Mexico and starred for the AllWhites. Played as
00:29:27
the number one goalkeeper playing against Brazil and stuff and and I remember in the change room remember
00:29:32
before the Brazil game we're underneath the ground and you could hear this whoa
00:29:38
and it was uh it was the Germany USA game. It was Al Cuden Razer. You know I'm thinking
00:29:45
Germany USA this is huge. And and we're coming out to play against Brazil and we
00:29:49
have our team talking. Ken Dougdell sort of said, you know, would anyone like to
00:29:52
say anything? And Michael, obviously what you've been through with breaking your neck and you know, and you know,
00:29:58
how how are your how are you how's your head? Uh because you know that there's
00:30:02
like 70 80,000 people out there. You're going to be busy, mate. We're playing
00:30:06
the best team in the world. We're ranked 101st of their first. So, how do you
00:30:11
feel? I said, are you guys [ __ ] serious? Sorry about the language. >> No, it's all right. It's podcast. I
00:30:16
said, uh, I said, uh, six months ago, I caught a soccer ball for the first time in two years after being told I'd never
00:30:23
walk, never play football again. And now I'm about to line up with the national
00:30:28
anthem of New Zealand with my mates and I'm about to play against Ronaldinho and
00:30:33
the Brazilian national team in Mexico in front of 70,000 people. Just if we score
00:30:38
a goal, we'll win. >> Yeah. >> I said, cuz they're not going to score.
00:30:41
You know, they ended up beating us 2-0, but it was it was no discredit. It's not
00:30:46
a bad group. It's >> not disgraceful, is it? >> No, it isn't. It isn't. And
00:30:48
>> was that was that your first time for the AllHites? >> No. No. I'd played for the AllHites
00:30:51
earlier. Uh but I'd never played at the level that I was playing now because I'd
00:30:55
never had it taken away from me and >> you know, you know, you know what I
00:30:59
mean? When you've got something and you lose, >> I think it's lost forever.
00:31:02
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I I did that. Did played well there. And then uh at the end of
00:31:06
the tournament, I came back to New Zealand. you know, spent some time with family and friends and my mom down in
00:31:11
and and in in she's in Grey Town now, but she was in uh in Why Can I So, she
00:31:16
was pretty happy with me at the time. I've been doing some good for change, so
00:31:19
which was nice. And uh and then do you know, have you heard of a guy called Bruce Groar?
00:31:24
>> No. >> Well, he used to be the Liverpool goalkeeper in the 80s when Liverpool
00:31:28
were the best. They were the best. They were like the Manchester United of the of the ' 90s. and he played for
00:31:33
Liverpool when they won European Cups and he played for Zimbabwe and and uh he was a goalkeeper and he he uh was
00:31:39
coaching in South Africa and he phoned me up and asked me if I'd like to go back to South Africa and play. So and he
00:31:47
had just taken over the position at my old club. So, uh, after being sort of mucked around with them a bit, cuz when
00:31:54
I broke my neck, I was meant to get paid 5 million US or 5 million Kiwi dollars as my insurance payout, but there was
00:32:03
some discrepancy and it wasn't the injury wasn't done on the field. So, they didn't pay it out. So, I was left
00:32:10
with nothing and the club sort of stitched me up. So, when they asked to sign me again, you know, I I said,
00:32:18
"Look, yeah, okay, I'll do that." But uh I made them you my agent made them pay
00:32:22
me you know quite handsomely. >> Um I played played for Super Sport United and won the uh
00:32:30
won the goalkeeper of the year in the in the league and uh won the FA Cup or the
00:32:35
the Bob Super Bowl against Kaiser Cheese in front of 100,000 people and got man of the match in that and uh and just
00:32:42
things just started flying for me. you know, I was just really uh appreciative of being able to have another go at life
00:32:47
and uh and and play football. >> Yeah. Um Yeah. At your pick, how good do you think you could have been if
00:32:55
everything had gone right? Like you mentioned before, man, you like could could you have could you have like been
00:33:01
earning huge money in the UK if you >> Yeah. I do I'm probably uh and thinking
00:33:07
back now if I you know the old scenario if you if you knew then what you know now, you know, where would you be? Yeah,
00:33:14
I uh I I was fortunate to when I went to South Africa to train with a guy called
00:33:19
Gary Bailey who who works for Super Sport. He owns he runs and owns a uh a football show. He covers all the English
00:33:27
footballs. He's like huge over there and and he used to play for Manchester United who's a goalkeeper there. And
00:33:32
>> funny how he was my hero when I was a kid growing up, you know. And and then
00:33:36
Bruce Grubel, the Liverpool keeper, was another one of my heroes and he he signed me. you know, these guys were the
00:33:43
best in the world playing my position. And um and they told me, you know, you should have been playing in the Premier
00:33:51
League. You know, I'm just making that up. They I I never had a mentor. I never
00:33:56
had anyone to a father figure in my life to to guide me. And I suppose that's why
00:34:01
I went off the rails so many times and because I never had someone pulling me in. I never had the accountability. I
00:34:08
never had any sort of u uh just that guidance that grounding >> and I think if I had have had that I
00:34:18
would have definitely achieved a lot more because at the end of the day I was I was watching these guys on TV remember
00:34:24
buying the shooting football monthly magazines and you know swapping magazines centerfolds you know football
00:34:30
team strip you know photos with my mates that was it for me I didn't think it got
00:34:36
any better than that you know but when when I went overseas and played against, you know, the best players in the world,
00:34:43
I actually realized, you know, it's not much difference if you if you rate yourself and you put yourself out
00:34:50
there, you know, and we come from a little place in the South Pacific, but >> you know, we sort of
00:34:57
we we sort of box above our weight, don't we, at times, Kiwis? And when I got that opportunity, when I finished
00:35:03
playing football, when I when I got older and cuz when I was younger, playing the game was never really my
00:35:10
highlight. It was more training because being a goalkeeper, you go on the field and if you make a mistake, you you're in
00:35:16
the [ __ ] So, I used to really look forward to the final whistle being blown and hopefully I've done well, which, you
00:35:22
know, generally I would u but um it can be quite daunting as well, you know, being in that position. And it's sort of
00:35:29
a a fear of failure, I suppose. Um I used to think that if I don't do well, I've got nothing else. You know, that's
00:35:36
my life. So that fear of failure sort of pushed me to achieve, you know, that makes sense.
00:35:43
>> Oh, it makes a lot of sense. I've had Sir John Kman on the podcast and he he
00:35:46
said the same thing. It's probably related to maybe it's related to your
00:35:49
mental health. Like he he talked about a game he had in the 80s where he played out of his skin and afterwards he's
00:35:54
like, "Well, I'm going to be dr dropped tomorrow." Like he he just couldn't see
00:35:57
it. And it was constant fear. And I suppose it is like in that high performance circle, it's it is like
00:36:01
that. E it's like you're only as good as your last game. >> Yep. 100%.
00:36:05
>> So your last game for the AllHites, so that was uh what 2002 >> 2003
00:36:10
went to Confederation Cup in um in uh in France. And I never played in the in the buildup,
00:36:20
you know, the qualifiers for Mexico Confederations Cup. uh cuz I'd you know been I'd broken my neck and I wasn't
00:36:26
playing but then I got pulled in when Ken came to South African and watched me play a few games and and that was great.
00:36:32
>> Uh I'd been dropped from the 2003 uh Confederations Cup games because and
00:36:39
I didn't play in the in the qualifiers which we hosted in New Zealand. We had a
00:36:43
sort of round robin type thing and we played Australia and beaten them 1 nil. Ryan Nelson scored uh in the final to go
00:36:50
to Confederation Cup 2003. I never played in the qualifiers because of disciplinary reasons and we'll get into
00:36:56
that but uh >> but I uh but I went to the tournament. Uh so what was the question again?
00:37:03
>> Oh yeah. So just the um yeah the end of your allights career. >> Yeah. So we went to the Confederation
00:37:09
Cup. Uh first game was against Japan. We lost 3-0 and they just destroyed us. The
00:37:14
Japanese were great. >> Uh second game was against Colombia and I got man of the match in that game.
00:37:18
They had a great game. Probably my best game we ever played for New Zealand. although we did lose 3-1. Uh but I it
00:37:24
was wonderful and I uh was on fire and um and then our last game was against France and
00:37:31
playing France at the park to France in Paris in front of a full house. They're
00:37:37
ranked number one in the world and they've got players like Terry Henri, you know,
00:37:42
>> just different class, you know. I remember when Ken Ken Dale said to the
00:37:47
boys before the you know the before the we went out onto the park he said guys you know having our team talk in the
00:37:53
change room and he said arts you know anything you want to add and I said guys you know they're the best team in the
00:38:00
world who cares we'll go out there and give them Kiwi you know Kia car be strong and giving it all this stuff when
00:38:06
we got into the tunnel dom and we're lining up to go out onto the pitch you know because the kiwi boys are quite big
00:38:12
the French were huge huge. They were all these just these they were built like brick
00:38:18
[ __ ] houses, you know? They were massive. I thought, give them a bit of kiwi, they'll beat the [ __ ] out of us.
00:38:23
We had a fight with these boys. And when we played against them, it we lost 5-nil. We were losing 3-0 after 19. They
00:38:30
scored a couple of goals in injury time. So, it's a bit unfair the final result
00:38:34
or the score, but but they could have turned it on at any time they wanted to. you know, Terry Henri,
00:38:42
he and Ronaldo, sorry, Ronaldinho are the two best players that I've played against. And
00:38:47
>> I've never seen someone with that pace. He was just amazing. And you know after the game I swapped shirts
00:38:54
with the goalkeeper and we chatted and you know we're in the and I actually got
00:38:58
drug tested and so I had to go and sit in this drug room with you know people watching me from FIFA and he one of the
00:39:04
male Sistra who Sra who was the Manchester United left back and he played left back for France and was
00:39:11
sitting down talking he's telling me about David Beck and we'd been going
00:39:14
through all this [ __ ] with Alex Ferguson the manager of Man at the time with and
00:39:19
this hair dryer a situation where Ferguson had kicked a hair dry and it hit Beckham in the head and he cut his
00:39:24
head and Beckham ended up leaving and went I think he went to Madrid. We were in Madrid then. But but he was telling
00:39:30
me all these stories about it and I'm thinking mate and I looked at his shin pads and
00:39:36
he had his shin pads and it had his his photo on them and then his signature on his shin pads and I had these little
00:39:41
lotto thing. Your lotto is my sponsor and I'm thinking >> like you buy a rebels.
00:39:45
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. But I'm I'm sitting there thinking the gap is so wide, but it's actually so
00:39:53
small as well, you know, and I think uh you know, you know, if if I had the opportunity to
00:40:01
do it all again, I would have done it a lot differently, Dom, and >> and uh but but in saying that, I'm I'm
00:40:07
extremely grateful for what I did achieve. >> So, it seems seems like you're on fire
00:40:11
at this point. So, you're playing some of the best uh the best football of your
00:40:14
career. Um, you said what happened with the all whites? >> Well, we just all offfield stuff.
00:40:20
>> No, no, no, nothing at all. It was at at the end of the tournament. We had a guy
00:40:23
called Paul Smallley who was a director of coaching, the English lad, and u and I mate, I had no time for him at all. I
00:40:29
thought he was a dick and and he just had no personality, you know, and and at the end of the tournament um I think
00:40:36
about like seven or eight of us got sent u we we we had a meeting at the end of the tournament uh the day after we
00:40:44
played France and we had a couple of days in Paris um and our uh CEO from New Zealand football, Bill McGowan, who's
00:40:52
unfortunately passed away a few years back, >> he uh he came and spoke to us about the
00:40:56
uh the prize money for, you for achieving uh for getting into the tournament >> and we got something like a million
00:41:03
dollars US and half the half of it was going to the players and half of it goes to the you know the football association
00:41:09
and he and he they still hadn't organized how it was going to be divvied up on you know whether it was all the
00:41:16
guys that played in the qualifying tournament or the guys that played in the actual tournament itself and I
00:41:21
didn't play in the qualifiers as I mentioned earlier but I played all the games at the tournament and and there
00:41:26
was just all this it you basically stood a chance to make either 5,000 is the lowest run of the mill sort of run of
00:41:34
the ladder or at the top of the ladder you'd make 45,000 >> you know and and it came to me I I I was
00:41:41
at the bottom because I didn't play in the in the qualifiers um but Bill asked me you know in in
00:41:48
front of all the boys you know uh what do you what do you think arts and I said and I stood up and I said guys
00:41:55
six months ago I caught a soccer ball for the first time in two years after being told I'd never walk again, never
00:42:01
play football again, and I've just played against the best teams in the world. $45,000
00:42:08
is going to be gone in a year's time if I get given that today. But the memories
00:42:13
that I'll take away with me for playing on this world stage will be forever embedded in my mind. Uh I don't care
00:42:21
what I get to play football. I never played for the money. uh and uh you know and that was you know that was it for me
00:42:28
you know it was just >> such an amazing opportunity and and and I grasp it.
00:42:34
>> Oh I thought there was there was a thing like um >> oh no sorry getting back to that
00:42:38
tournament. Yeah so we we organized that so basically that was all good and so it
00:42:41
was sorted out in the end. We got a little bit and divvied up and then we got we got back to New Zealand and then
00:42:47
Paul Smallley had sent these letters out to the to eight of the senior players, myself included, saying uh uh sent these
00:42:54
emails saying uh like to thank you for your uh contribution to New Zealand football. Um you will never be uh
00:43:03
basically words were you'll never be selected again because you've done your
00:43:07
your tenure. um and we'd like you to keep this to yourself and not, you know,
00:43:12
talk to the press about it or anything like that. And I was going, are you [ __ ] serious, man? It's like, you've
00:43:18
just kicked us out of the whites after giving you good guys like Chris Jackson who had played 80 times when New Zealand
00:43:24
got the letter and saying that they no longer required and um and that was how we were treated, which was pretty pretty
00:43:32
sad. But I think back in those days we uh you know we were still an amateur country you know trying to you know sort
00:43:40
of run it as professionals and we were struggling. >> Yeah. >> But uh but yeah so there was no scale
00:43:46
duggery going on or anything like that >> cuz there was um I thought June 30th
00:43:50
2002 you went drinking then the you had your whites contract torn up the next day or something. No
00:43:55
>> no no. >> I thought I read something online about that. No, no. I got I got kicked out of
00:43:59
the all whites were in training camp up in Oakuckland. Uh we just been to China for for a trip build up before the
00:44:06
Confederation's Cup qualifiers. Uh and the night before the game, sorry, we we
00:44:11
we played down Firmland in in in Wellington as part of our at the West and as part of our buildup, we uh we
00:44:18
played them down there on a Wednesday night, I think. And I'd come back from
00:44:21
South Africa. I was all ready to go. Uh after the game, I I'd had a good No, no,
00:44:26
sorry. It was the night before the game. I went to see my physio and I said to him, um once again, I won't know names,
00:44:33
but I said, "Look, I'm really excited. We're playing in Wellington tomorrow. Uh
00:44:38
and remember, Domin, I'm an alcoholic. I'm an alcoholic." And then and and I I
00:44:43
said to him, "Look, have you got anything that can help me sleep? I'm so,
00:44:47
you know, sort of hyped up about playing in front of my own my home town and my friends and family that are going to be
00:44:53
there tomorrow. Haven't played in New Zealand for 5 years. So, he pulled out a
00:44:57
bottle of Conniac and I ended up drinking the whole bottle of Conniac and then we uh got onto a
00:45:04
bottle of whiskey and I and we drunk 3/4 or 2/3 of that. Uh and then uh woke up the next morning in my bed and still
00:45:14
still drunk. >> Mhm. We had went down had breakfast uh flew down to Wellington played a game
00:45:20
man that night I was playing the game and it and it's that fear of failure again comes in I'm thinking what have I
00:45:30
done and what have I how I've come back to New Zealand and here I am drunk playing for New Zealand you know you
00:45:38
know my mates and my family's here and that and thinking what sane person would
00:45:44
do that obviously I wasn't sane I I have mental issues with my drinking and I was
00:45:49
an alcoholic. I didn't I didn't I didn't think I was at the time because I used
00:45:52
to be a binger. >> I didn't drink every day of the week. I could have beer in the fridge and not
00:45:56
touch it and but then when I started I didn't stop and um anyway so two days
00:46:02
later um got caught into hang just just before we go. So were you um were you still drunk playing? Were you hung over?
00:46:10
>> I was drunk. I was still drunk when I played. Man, I can't imagine the um I
00:46:13
think most people listening to this or watching this would have had that moment, you know, anxiety.
00:46:18
>> Um and just the the guilt and shame that washes over you. You So you're playing
00:46:23
playing for the all whites. >> Standing there thinking, "What the [ __ ]
00:46:26
am I doing? I'm a [ __ ] loser." >> Yeah. Biggest loser in the world.
00:46:29
Biggest loser in the world. Who would [ __ ] up this opportunity? You know, me. >> U we've got to go back to the Melbourne
00:46:36
game when I later on. >> The Melbourne marijuana. We'll get get to that story.
00:46:41
>> Melbourne Melbourne marijuana. Is that the name of a team over there? >> No, no, no. That's that's a that's
00:46:46
another topic that I really want to touch on with us. It's it's quite funny.
00:46:49
You like it. But um yeah, I mean I just I just got slaughtered, you know, but I used to I used to do it often, Dom, you
00:46:56
know, I used to and and now being sober, you know, and thinking how lovely life is and not having the
00:47:04
[ __ ] you know, not waking up and wondering who have I phoned, who have I text, what have I done to embarrass
00:47:10
myself, you know, and you know, not having that over my head at the moment or, you know, touch what it never
00:47:16
happens again is wonderful, you know, cuz you're living in fear like that. But
00:47:20
um >> I I I I can see I can see parallels like um I I can I can easily not drink. Um
00:47:28
but once I start I have I have trouble stopping. >> Yep. Yeah. I don't stop. I I would drink
00:47:33
u you know I'd go on binges for 5 days. >> You know in South Africa when I wasn't
00:47:39
when the season had finished I'd go >> I'd go missing for five days.
00:47:43
>> Yeah. >> Um yeah I think that's probably relatable for a lot of people. A lot of people
00:47:49
better relate to that. >> Yeah. So, um yeah, the June 30th, 2002 thing with the the Cognac and the uh the
00:47:55
whiskey. Then there was an Herald article in 2007 um where you say it's been 4 years, 7 months, and 18 days
00:48:03
since I last had a drink. >> Longest I went without drinking. My uh >> mate, that's a long stint. Why? Yeah.
00:48:07
When did you start again? You were doing so well. >> I was doing great. My life was
00:48:12
fantastic. I was playing good football. I was playing for the Kings at the time.
00:48:14
And and then I met a lady uh who I ended up end up I've only been married once
00:48:20
and we have a beautiful child which is you know what we got out of it. I have a 15-year-old daughter now 15y old
00:48:25
daughter who uh currently not talking to dad because she thinks uh her life is just too busy. So I think that's I've
00:48:32
been told that's just a 15year-old's mentality isn't it? You know but uh but
00:48:37
she'll come back when she's certainly but uh but she's my best mate. Uh but I
00:48:41
um you know I met a lady and uh and we fell in love and we used to have she's
00:48:47
Scottish and the Scots like a drink or two and her family's a lot of her family
00:48:52
out here New Zealand living here as well and and we ended up buying a property together. We end up getting married in
00:48:58
Royal Tonga. Uh but her family and and and she used to say, "God, it' be good
00:49:06
if you could just drink because you have so much fun anyway. You know, you're the
00:49:09
life of the party." And I say, "Well, I don't need to drink then, do I?" And she
00:49:12
goes, "Yeah, but it would be so much nicer if we could have a drink." And so
00:49:16
then we said, "Okay, let's just have two drinks then." And like, mate, it's like,
00:49:22
you know, I'll have the two drinks, but I'm just wanting to sneak in or have
00:49:27
another one, you know, and uh and it's it's e it's all or nothing if you're,
00:49:31
you know, if you're a drinking alcoholic. And um and so having a couple uh you know that was just basically
00:49:38
opening the uh boom docks again and knowing that it's going to lead to worse
00:49:42
things and and it did and it you know in the end cost me my marriage and and uh yeah cost me my my
00:49:52
I don't know sobriety and uh and my sanity I suppose to a certain extent because you know what do you do what do
00:49:59
you do these things if they're you know the results so negative in your life and
00:50:02
you just keep doing it. >> Oh man, how many how many other breaks have there been between then and now?
00:50:08
Like 2007 and >> Well, now I've just done it just about a year. Uh I uh I've never done hard
00:50:15
drugs, smoked a pot, you know, as I think quite a few Kiwis have, you know, but uh
00:50:21
>> I've I've never done hard drugs or anything like that. Uh I have to inject myself cuz I'm a
00:50:27
diabetic, but I don't know how people can inject drugs into their Oh, it's
00:50:32
just scary. I've had a couple of times where I've probably been about uh you
00:50:36
know, I've gone for months without drinking, but this is, you know, finally I'm at the stage now I realize after all
00:50:42
the health issues I've had with my heart and having a heart cardiac arrest and u
00:50:47
you know and I want to I've put on all this weight uh but I'm walking every day
00:50:52
and I'm sort of I've turned the corner now where I feel like I can get very
00:50:57
healthy again and I'm working towards that. But I'm doing that, you know, over
00:51:02
a long period of time rather than doing it all today. >> Yeah. >> So, uh yeah, just just just moving
00:51:08
forward, I suppose. And uh and and staying off the alcohol for me is is the biggest
00:51:15
uh positive in my life these days. It's bigger than anything. >> What? I don't think there's too many
00:51:21
people in the history of the universe that have um quit alcohol and said their life got worse.
00:51:25
>> No. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Oh, I mean, hindsight, we've talked about hindsight,
00:51:29
and it's it's a bit of a pointless game. But [ __ ] you think about how different
00:51:33
your life would be now if you if you didn't start drinking again after after
00:51:36
quitting in 2002. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> I mean, look at I look at some of the
00:51:40
players, you know, the goalkeepers that I've trained with, especially in Australia. I trained with Mark
00:51:44
Schwarzer, who ended up playing in England for years, who played at Middlesbrough, and Mark Bosnich, who
00:51:49
played at Manchester United, >> and Steve Maton, who played at West Ham. And these guys that I used to train
00:51:54
with, I used to think I was as good as them, you know, without being too cocky. You've got to be confident, obviously,
00:51:59
if you want to achieve. >> Uh but um yeah, it it it I used to get lifts to training when I
00:52:08
was in Melbourne. Uh I used to get picked up by a guy called who's a year younger than me, a guy called Kevin
00:52:14
Musket. Now Kevin's now coaching in Saudi Arabia I think or or Japan or something but he played for Australia
00:52:22
played for Milwall played for a few clubs in in England was renowned as a super hard man. He was he was dirty and
00:52:30
and uh but he played at the South M uh sorry at first of all at Sunshine George Cross and Maltes club that I went over
00:52:38
there to first play with then we went to South Melbourne together. Um, I look at
00:52:42
what he's done and I could have followed the, you know, very easily, I think.
00:52:47
>> Uh, but as I said, I didn't have that that that direction or that >> that north star or that role I
00:52:54
>> Yeah. Does it make you feel sad? Well, not really because I I look at what I did achieve
00:53:02
>> and for a guy that grew up in Nio, a broken home with nothing, >> all my mates used to have bikes and all
00:53:09
that and soccer balls and I didn't have any of it, you know. I I had no none of
00:53:13
these toys and these toys that they had and I was always sort of hanging around with them and u you know, so everything
00:53:21
I got was like secondhand or anything like that. So to achieve what I achieved I think was pretty special. Anyway,
00:53:29
>> well what was the um going back to the story before? What's the Melbourne
00:53:32
marijuana story? >> Marijuana in Melbourne. Mate, I've got to I've got to tell you this one. I I
00:53:36
went to Melbourne as I said to play for this uh Sunshine George Cross and season
00:53:41
had finished and I and I go to Melbourne um South Melbourne and they're a Greek
00:53:46
club. Okay. basically Greek uh ethnic community supports them. And so I um I end up going there and and you allowed
00:53:56
three people over the age of 20 to play in the under 20s, which is like the reserve team league. So I was playing
00:54:03
predominantly for the reserves >> and um excuse me, I'll just have some of
00:54:08
that. >> Yeah, for sure. >> How you doing? You coping all right? You
00:54:12
doing all right? >> Yeah. Are we going well? I'm loving it. M really it's really I'm really enjoying
00:54:17
sharing with you. So thank you. >> Is it um Yeah. Is it uncomfortable talking about this stuff or is it okay?
00:54:23
>> I'm an open book and uh >> I'm happy to share. I'm happy to share.
00:54:27
I think if it can and possibly help people as well. >> Yeah, for sure. >> It's it's helping me.
00:54:31
>> Yeah. >> Cuz it's pointing my it's pointing my thing across which I couldn't speak
00:54:36
about before about that stuff >> because it was just [ __ ] But >> Well, addiction is a complicated thing,
00:54:42
right? >> Yeah. >> It's niggly. Yeah. >> Can you back to the Melbourne?
00:54:45
>> Yeah. Yes, please. >> So, so we uh we we uh it was cup final week and the seniors, you know, the
00:54:53
first team, they had qualified for the final. They were playing Melbourne night. So, it was two Melbourne clubs
00:54:58
playing in the final um at Concord Oval in Melbourne. And there the curtain raiser was the under 20 national final.
00:55:08
And lo and behold, my under 20 Melbourne team had qualified for that. I was a captain actually. And uh and obviously I
00:55:18
was 21. I was the oldest guy there because I was, you know, whatever. Anyway, so we were meant to be playing
00:55:24
the Sydney Sydney Olympic, which is another Greek club, uh on the Sunday. We uh we trained on the Thursday night
00:55:34
and then afterwards I went to see uh a mate of mine, a Dutch guy who uh he lived with a a girlfriend or mate um in
00:55:45
Melbourne in the city center sort of thing and they had this beautiful house surrounded by these huge walls and just
00:55:50
all this beautiful um um you know plant life and that and it was amazing set up there and he had these two big he goes
00:55:59
you know I've been to the house a few times times and I knew her. I didn't
00:56:02
really know him but I got to know him and we became friends. His name was Hans and he goes, "Hands?" And he goes,
00:56:07
"Michael, I want to show you my friend." So he took me out into his backyard and
00:56:11
we walked around and saw this big compost heap and compost bin and saw these beautiful huge marijuana plants
00:56:19
and they were both about 10 11t tall. They were huge. And he goes, "I've got a
00:56:25
present for you." and he actually took me back inside and he gave me this big
00:56:28
it was like a you know like a size of a pillowcase full with pot and uh and I wasn't a a pot smoker or anything those
00:56:38
days I had a dabble every now and again anyway so I said oh okay and he goes well let's have some this this is a
00:56:45
Thursday night mind you meant to be going home getting ready for this big game on the Sunday the addiction side of
00:56:51
me comes in again kicks off again so I woke up um you know thinking it was Friday morning. It was Sunday morning.
00:57:00
>> Oh, >> we had been on it from Thursday night and we'd gone through Friday. The only
00:57:09
time we left the house was to go to get some takeaways and munchies. Saturday I thought, well, we'll have a couple and
00:57:15
then I better get home in the afternoon. Obviously, that went out the door. Sunday morning, I wake up at 10:00 in
00:57:21
the morning. I've got to be at the stadium at 12:00. Two hours later, 30,000 people are going
00:57:28
to be at this game, you know, and we're playing the Colonel Razer for the big
00:57:31
game, but still a cup final for the under 20. So, so I drove home, got my suit, and put my suit on and drove back
00:57:39
into town. Um, I didn't have a cell phone back in those days. That was still
00:57:44
back in the old days when the walls were the phone was stuck to the wall at home,
00:57:47
you And u so I I drive to the stadium uh and I'm getting there. It's about 12.
00:57:53
It's it's 5 12 or something. I meant to be there at 12:00. And uh I think our
00:57:59
kickoff was like 1 and then the big game was at 3 or something. Anyway, so I arrive there and when I get there I can
00:58:07
sort of hear this roar and stuff and uh I'm walking through the to the back of
00:58:12
the stand sort of thing and there's all the dignity there. you bought your car
00:58:15
and you got to have your, you know, your your press pass and all that stuff. And
00:58:19
I'm thinking, what's going on? Our game was brought forward an hour and a half.
00:58:24
So, we cooked off at 11:30. So, they've been trying to get in touch with me for
00:58:28
days saying, you know, and so I get in there, I'm stoned out of my nut, mate.
00:58:35
I'm walking in there and I've got shades on. It's hot. It's like 35° in Melbourne
00:58:40
and sweating like a bloody banjo. And I'm walking in there going, "No, what
00:58:44
have I done? I've done it again, you [ __ ] idiot." You know, walk in there
00:58:49
and all the Greeks go, "Michael, Michael, get in the change room." I go
00:58:51
to the change room. Uh, whatever on a jack or whatever, the kit man gets me my kid. And so I go to put my kid on. I
00:58:58
think, "No, I can't even stand up." And so I strip off, jump in the shower, ice
00:59:03
cold for 2 minutes, and then Jake comes into the shower and he goes, "Michael,
00:59:07
you've got to come on. We need you. We need you. You're the leader. You're the
00:59:10
captain for the boys." And uh so I get my kid on. I go out there and it's like
00:59:15
they've played 40 minutes, you know, and and it's nil nil and they sub me on with
00:59:22
Dom with 5 minutes to go to halftime and I'm going, "Oh no, why don't we just
00:59:25
wait till the halftime? We're doing well. We don't want to, you know." So
00:59:28
they sub me on. I go on, I can't even stand up properly, mate. Um, I I I came
00:59:34
up for two one-on- ones, you know, like one-on-one with his striker. And one he smashed and hit me in the face and gone
00:59:41
up. The other one he smashed, hit me in the knee. They look like great saves, mate. I'm just trying to stand up, you
00:59:46
know, and and I don't go for any crosses. When we get a couple of goal kicks, I get the defender to take the
00:59:51
goal kicks. I'm an embarrassment. We come off at Halime. We scored before Halime, so it's like, yeah. So, we go
00:59:59
into the change room at Halime. I'm straight into the shower again to have a
01:00:03
cold shower and Jack comes in. He goes, "Mike, are you okay?" You know, the
01:00:06
coach wants to talk and go back out there. I still can't see, mate. I've got
01:00:11
I'm honestly seeing double. And I'm thinking, >> well, that's probably what smoking pot
01:00:16
for three, four days non-stop goes, you know, does to you. And um in the end, we
01:00:21
won 1 nil and and I ended up having quite a good game. I can't remember any of it, you know. And
01:00:27
>> is it online? Like, have you seen it on YouTube or anything? But uh but but you know afterwards we
01:00:33
got the cup and all that stuff and and that was just one of the one of the lucky sort of instances where
01:00:42
I got away with being an absolute dick, you know. >> So you you you tell these stories and
01:00:47
you you tell them and they and they're very funny stories only only they're not
01:00:52
funny like it's it's your life and you you have this incredible talent and
01:00:55
you're just sort of capitulating. Yeah, >> it's [ __ ] sad in a way. It's tragic.
01:01:01
>> Well, very sad because you you're waking up and one of the worst Well, there's a lot of
01:01:07
negatives, but one of the worst things is you, you know, because I because I didn't have any sort of guidance and and
01:01:14
help and I needed it. Uh, but I never I never found it. I never I never went out
01:01:20
to find it either. I never never really looked for it, but I needed that help. Um,
01:01:26
I just used to think, God, I've done it again. You know, >> you know what? I used to often, and I've
01:01:32
said this a million times to people, what sane person does what I've done? You know,
01:01:37
>> it's the definition. I think it was Einstein said the definition of madness
01:01:40
is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. >> But what um yeah, was there a rock
01:01:46
bottom moment? >> I think um I've had a couple. But when I broke my neck in the car crash, I'd
01:01:53
never walk again. That that was one. >> Um, but and earlier that night when I,
01:01:59
you know, we went down to the, you know, to the my mate's restaurant that he was
01:02:03
leaving the next day, Jose, and the guy that I was best man at him and his elders's wedding.
01:02:08
>> U, when I went down there, I had a few drinks and then I said, I've got to go
01:02:11
home. And I actually had driven down there and I remember now. And I drove home. I drove into a a wall at my flat
01:02:21
when I got back. So the writing was always already on the wall and then they then I went upstairs and they phoned me
01:02:27
to say come back down to the pub and I said no. And then they came and got me and then I went out you know to to Sun
01:02:32
City. It's like what are you do you just >> there was when you when you turn that
01:02:38
switch it's just there's just no coming back. and uh should have died many
01:02:44
times, Dom and uh you know I I think uh you know I'm not I'm not a religious man
01:02:49
as such but I do believe in a higher power >> and uh you know I I believe that I've u
01:02:56
>> you know I've been put on this earth to do a lot of good for other things. I
01:03:00
mean I work with special needs kids which which is my calling. >> I love it. I love uh you know being a
01:03:06
big brother type thing. I work with, you know, male special needs uh individuals
01:03:11
and uh you know, the joy I get out of giving back to those people is is cool and you become part of the family as
01:03:18
well. >> So, I like doing that. I used to go into a lot of schools and do reading and
01:03:23
>> I've got a lot of photos I could show at some stage, but I used to put on
01:03:27
Facebook. I used to uh dress up as a superhero like if I'm Batman. I've got
01:03:32
these unbelievable uniforms, Batman or Darth Vader or uh uh you know Spider-Man uniforms, you know, and you and and I
01:03:41
used to go to school and do reading >> for for for the youth and that sort of
01:03:45
stuff. And I get a kick out of doing that, you know, because it gives me feeling that I'm doing something for
01:03:51
someone else. So, you know, like getting back to what goes wrong comes around. And I sort of think if you do a lot of
01:03:56
good things in your life, you know, maybe maybe good things will happen to you sort of thing, you know.
01:04:01
>> Yeah. >> What about with the um with the alcohol? Like how did how did you give up in the
01:04:07
times that you've given up? Especially that time in the early 2000s where you
01:04:10
were sober for like four years or however long it was. >> Did you did you do AA or did you try
01:04:15
therapy? >> I did AA few times. Um, and uh, >> is it not your thing or
01:04:22
>> No, no, I had nothing against IA at all. I thought it was wonderful. It's, you
01:04:26
know, it's to help people and I used to enjoy going and sharing and a lot of
01:04:31
people, although it's Alcoholics Anonymous, a lot of people there would know who I was, you know. Um, but I, um,
01:04:39
what am I thinking now? I'm just thinking I uh I've been pretty resilient
01:04:47
I suppose over the years and and everything I've achieved honestly I've never been given a handout. So
01:04:54
everything I've achieved I've achieved. >> And this is just another thing where you
01:05:00
know if I want to do well in life it's you know I'm I've got no money now but I
01:05:05
don't have any debt but I uh I'm I'm happy being by myself now. >> Uh I don't think I'm uh uh in a position
01:05:16
where I can value a relationship properly because I've got to value myself better. And uh
01:05:24
yeah, and that's that's pretty much it, I suppose. >> Well, um yeah. Did did you ever ask for
01:05:32
help or did you just sort of deal with this? >> I went to AA and sort of and did that
01:05:36
and you meant to do your 12 steps, but Dom, honestly, I just thought, mate, if you don't want to get in [ __ ] don't
01:05:42
drink. >> So, I just don't drink. >> Yeah. But yeah, addiction's hard though,
01:05:46
eh? Because it's more layered and more complex than that. Like it'd be easy for
01:05:49
people that know you like >> No, no, I disagree. >> Do you? >> Yeah, I disagree. I think um
01:05:56
you don't want to smoke cigarettes and and and and have the appetite, just don't smoke, you know. You got to, you
01:06:02
know, I I've I've got to be driven to have achieved what I've achieved, you
01:06:07
know, and although I might have missed out in certain areas of my life, maybe with with the guidance and the probably
01:06:13
I'm not mate, I'm not this sharpest taxi in the rank sort of thing, you know, the
01:06:17
brightest taxi, whatever, but sharpest tool in the shed, whatever. But I uh I've always been quite driven, as I
01:06:23
said, the you know, the fear of failure and having nothing else to have in your life. So, you've got to achieve
01:06:28
otherwise you're stuffed. And uh and that's the same with the alcohol I suppose you know it's like it's all or
01:06:34
nothing. >> I uh I don't like what it's done what I've done to family
01:06:40
members as far as embarrassed. >> I uh >> have you in what way? >> I'll tell you an example. When I was in
01:06:46
South Africa my father was married to a lady beautiful lady called Alice Indian lady and lovely lovely and and when I
01:06:54
used to go and stay with him there was just so much love there. and and we went went down for Christmas one year and uh
01:07:01
my father didn't know I was a drinker but I went to a Christmas in in Durban
01:07:05
in Chhatzwood and it was uh with uh my father's wife's his third wife I think
01:07:11
he uh Ellis's family in Chatzsworth the Indians and uh beautiful people and the
01:07:18
they prepare the food and they eat it with their hands and it's just traditional English dishes and uh Indian
01:07:24
dishes and uh and I want I stayed with him and uh on Christmas day I went into the kitchen to get a lemonade and the
01:07:32
maid was in there, one of the maids, and she was doing the dishes and I said to her, "Cynthia, you can't do them. You
01:07:38
know, you're meant to be there out having fun, you know, don't do the dishes. This is Christmas Day. this is
01:07:42
your day to enjoy, be part of the family, you know, and uh and I saw a bottle of straw rum, so I thought I'd
01:07:50
have a little, you know, with have a straw rum and um and do the dishes. Uh Dom, I woke up the
01:07:59
next day and I was at my agent's house >> who lives in Durban. And what I had
01:08:04
done, I drunk the whole bottle of straw rum and then I'd gone out and I'd abused
01:08:09
the whole Christmas day party and I was oblivious to it. And >> but I told them they're all racist and
01:08:16
they shouldn't be putting a maiden to do the dishes on Christmas day when it's
01:08:21
her day and I'll do it and you can all get stuffed. And anyway, she uh Alice
01:08:27
had sclerodma which is a skin pigmentations of the skin change color and skin goes quite hard and you sort of
01:08:34
go into remission after a couple of years. So she was getting diialysis and having blood transfusions and all that
01:08:39
stuff. I because of what I did on that day and was basically told to get off. They called my agent. and he came and
01:08:46
picked me up, woke up on his couch the next day and he and his wife and kids and they said, "Oh god, you've [ __ ] up
01:08:53
again." And I said, "Oh my god." You know, not what cuz I never I never
01:08:57
wanted to upset people. It's the worst thing when I did. I've done it again.
01:09:01
And you know, it's like, "Oh my god, what have I done? I I'm the most fearful
01:09:05
person in the world that I've upset you. I hate to upset people and I've done it
01:09:10
again." And um what happened with Ellis is you know she she was not well and it's meant to go
01:09:17
into remission and then she gets better. I had a break from them. They had a break from me. Um you know and and like
01:09:24
4 months later I get a phone call from my father to say that Alice had passed away and I never
01:09:32
got to apologize to her. you know, it broke my heart and uh and I said, "Okay,
01:09:37
Dad. Well, I'll I'll come down for the for the funeral." And he goes, "No,
01:09:40
you're not welcome." So, I' I'd done so much damage to that family that I was no
01:09:45
longer >> part of it. And uh you know, this is another thing. And and I've done that,
01:09:51
you know, Dom, I've I've done that so many times, you know, and uh not drinking now. I haven't upset one person
01:10:01
in the year that I have that I haven't been drinking now. >> I haven't upset one person to any, you
01:10:07
know, to to like I'd done in the past, you know. >> Yeah. >> So, it's why I don't drink.
01:10:14
>> Yeah. Yeah. I was going to ask what sort of um what sort of a drunk you were,
01:10:17
like were you a happy drunk or you life at the party? But I I feel like that answer there sort of answers the
01:10:23
question in a way. >> I sort of go with whatever's going, you know? I mean, I can be the happiest,
01:10:27
loving, most beautiful person in the world >> and then I can be the biggest pratt
01:10:33
ever. >> For for someone that's listening to this or watching this that might be battling
01:10:37
addiction silently, what would your advice be? >> Seek help. >> Seek I go for walks with a with a
01:10:44
gentleman that's um I live in West Oakland now and I go for walks every two or three days. Walk and talk I call it
01:10:51
>> with a mate of mine. He's from the Cook Islands and he uh I just met him. I
01:10:55
actually go to the cemetery in West Oakland and I and I go and have picnics there by myself. It's a nice place to go
01:11:00
and be at be at ease by yourself and and and a place where you can uh >> just just chill out, you know. And I met
01:11:10
this guy. He was walking his his baby in the pram and and he said that he's an ex
01:11:14
pee head, you know, and u >> so we've created a relationship. He he has a partner. She doesn't he doesn't
01:11:20
live with her because they were both addicts. So, they've got a break, but they've got a little 13-month old baby.
01:11:25
And uh you know, and part of me being good for myself and part of my treatment is um is sharing with other
01:11:33
people as well. >> So, if I can help other people, that that that that's for me the best
01:11:38
medicine. >> Yeah. What what was the catalyst um for giving up this last time a year ago? Uh
01:11:45
I have a 15year-old daughter 14 at the time that I uh that I want to see grow old. I want to share with her, share the
01:11:54
love that she shares with me because she is um the most amazing thing in the world, you know, and u but also
01:12:04
uh just sick of just sick of all this [ __ ] you know? I mean, it's there's
01:12:11
nothing worse. Every every day that I drunk, every day I would wake up the next morning cuz I used to black out
01:12:18
every time I drunk, you know. Obviously, it took years to get to that stage, but
01:12:23
you know, I would drink I'd be looking for that nice little feeling, you know, that you get when
01:12:28
you've had a couple. But >> there's that window e maybe an hour and 90 minutes.
01:12:33
>> Yeah, that's the one, mate. And then you're [ __ ] So, I was always looking
01:12:37
for that and then I'd just overboard and then I'd wake up the next morning. And
01:12:40
the thing is I would wake up thinking, what have I done? You know, who have I pissed off today? Who have I
01:12:50
who have I called, you know, who have I been disgusting to, you know, who have I
01:12:57
tried it on with, you know, and uh you know, who who have I abused, you know, not so much. No, no. Yeah. Yeah. Abuse
01:13:05
is in there. All the bad things. And I'm just being I've never been dishonest
01:13:09
with anyone in a podcast or a chat, Dom. So, >> you know, I'm so I'm happy to share this
01:13:14
with you. I uh I I don't want to be like that, you know, and and no one likes to
01:13:19
no one wants to be like that. No, >> you know, but but unfortunately that's
01:13:23
what that's what part of the uh return is if you're going to go and be a dick
01:13:27
and you can't handle your drink. M >> yeah it's it's rough though because it's
01:13:31
you do burn a lot of bridges I think when you when you've got an addiction and uh
01:13:36
>> um you know people should lean into you but I suppose it becomes a point where
01:13:40
it's like no I've put my ore in that water too many times my hands are washed
01:13:46
but if if you treat addiction like an illness like cancer you wouldn't say that to a person with cancer like nah
01:13:50
he's still got his cancer I've driven him to hospital too many times I'm done
01:13:55
but I I understand it's way more nuanced and complicated than that because um you
01:14:00
know you think that the the person with the addiction issue should just be able to stop and should just be able to act
01:14:04
like a normal decent human being. It's tough though. >> So this last time there was no there was
01:14:09
no particular moment. You just woke up one day and was like no. Well, I I um It's funny you say that because I uh
01:14:19
was smart enough uh to realize that >> I've been in that position that you're
01:14:26
just saying was there a moment >> another rock bottom. >> Yeah. I've been in that moment so many
01:14:31
times >> that >> I don't want to be in that position again. >> So I don't want to go to that moment. So
01:14:37
if I don't drink, that moment's not going to come up again. if you don't
01:14:42
know what I mean, you know, and so so that's I suppose it's growing up, isn't
01:14:46
it, mate? >> Yeah. >> You know, >> but uh >> it's a scary place to be, you know. It
01:14:51
really is. >> What sobriety or >> No, no. Being being drunk, you know, and
01:14:56
not knowing what what you've done. Um, I I I've sort of because I've had that
01:15:02
poor press and that and I I got a I got a good wake up that uh it doesn't matter
01:15:08
if you do a hundred nice things, you know, if you do one bad thing, people are going to draw reference to that more
01:15:13
than the other other stuff. Uh, >> but that poor press, we'll get to that.
01:15:18
That's on the next card. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, just >> the controversy card. No,
01:15:22
>> that's cool. So, so just >> I've cut out I I always used to think um
01:15:30
because of my shortfallings, you know, uh I've got to help other people, you
01:15:35
know, sort of helps me. It's my medicine is by helping other people that helps
01:15:39
me. But that's actually quite a defeist sort of attitude because if you're always trying
01:15:46
to put out fires and that sort of stuff, you're not really grasping what you're
01:15:51
here for. And that's to >> you know you know what I mean? It's like
01:15:55
>> yeah just to go along with that. So >> I don't know where I'm going with that
01:16:00
but >> have you have you have you ever seen a therapist or you done any therapy? Like
01:16:04
there's got to be a reason that we that you were attracted to drinking in the
01:16:07
way that you were like like trying to like run away from something or trying to escape from the reality of your life.
01:16:12
I don't know. >> I think uh yeah definitely get away from [ __ ] you know. Um it it it gives you
01:16:19
that sort of that heightened, you know, that buzz. Uh quite often sports people get a buzz out of playing sport. Uh and
01:16:29
they do everything 100 miles an hour, whether it's drinking, partying, or or
01:16:32
playing sport >> and it's just it's a flow on from that, you know.
01:16:37
>> Yeah. >> Well, I hope you never drink again. >> Yeah. No, I'm a
01:16:42
>> But I I understand it's more complicated than that and you might slip up and
01:16:46
>> that's fine, too. >> Yeah. I don't I don't I don't
01:16:53
I don't want to have a drink again. >> Um I uh you know, I value my life. I I I uh
01:17:02
I I gave up on life, Tom, a few years ago and and thought I've had bad press.
01:17:07
I've had [ __ ] My health's been crap. Uh my life is you know I didn't achieve
01:17:13
what I could have achieved. I've got no money now. I'm broke. I you know what
01:17:19
I'm alive. >> A mate of mine as I said when I came here today mate of mine committed
01:17:24
suicide yesterday. You know and uh he's never going to be able to to do what he
01:17:30
would if he was still alive now. You know I've I've had so many friends that
01:17:35
I've known through football and and through life that are no longer here for
01:17:39
whatever reasons. Um, you know, we I've had friends who have died of AIDS in
01:17:43
Africa and I've had friends that have been killed in car crashes, friends that
01:17:47
have had heart attacks and uh and friends that have taken their own life. A lot of sportsmen I know probably about
01:17:55
probably about seven or eight mates of mine that have taken their own life because they don't have the financial
01:18:01
backup and wealth and limelight that they once had anymore and they can't deal with that, you know. And uh I uh
01:18:11
you know so I've seen all that stuff and and all I can say to you know from where
01:18:16
I'm sitting is you never get the opportunity again if you take your life. >> You know that's your last act.
01:18:23
>> Yeah. I mean I I should have died in a car crash when I broke my neck. You know
01:18:27
I uh I'm lucky to be alive. I had a heart attack and I was dead and then I flatlined four times when I was in a
01:18:34
coma. You know I should I shouldn't be here. So, you know, come on. You know,
01:18:39
look at yourself and think >> maybe you should try a little bit harder and be a bit more focused with,
01:18:44
>> you know, not trying to end your life. >> [ __ ] You You must have been like a just
01:18:50
a phenomenal player. I'm just thinking of like, so people that are selecting
01:18:53
you for a team, they're like, "Oh, yeah, we've got Michaeling, but this is the
01:18:57
baggage he comes with." And they were still giving you these opportunities regardless. Like, you must have been
01:19:01
phenomenal. It's funny you say that because uh I I never knew how good I was, you know, and and I think I was
01:19:08
without being a dick, I think I was a lot better than what I ever thought I was.
01:19:13
>> I've played the game and you know, you know, you show this confidence cuz
01:19:17
that's what you need to as a goalkeeper. You need to portray a confident, outgoing cockiness. Yeah, of course you
01:19:22
do. >> Uh but um I never, you know, as I said, I was always scared, you know. I was
01:19:27
always scared. And uh it's it's it's it it's it's interesting
01:19:34
because yeah, I just I don't so many things could have been different, you know, but uh but they're
01:19:43
not. >> That's that's the way it goes. >> Yeah. Yeah. It is what it is. E past is
01:19:48
the past. >> Yeah. I heard in another podcast um Jimmy Car, the comedian of all people
01:19:53
saying, um yeah, depression is fantastic, isn't he? >> He's he's marvelous. This is a serious
01:19:58
moment from him. He said um depression is and it's it's very simplified but he
01:20:03
said depression is thinking about what's already happened. Anxiety is worrying
01:20:06
about what's going to happen. Um so you just have to like live in the present as
01:20:10
much as you can. >> Um right some some of the other controversies and you've talked about this the bad pre bad
01:20:18
bad press as you've called it. So, in 2018, um, there was a TV and Zed news report where six women said you obtained
01:20:26
more than $150,000 from them. Um, six is a lot of women. >> Yeah. I uh and and this is 100% honest,
01:20:36
mate. I um I was uh going through a lot of poor health. Uh and I used to go on dating sites
01:20:46
>> like Tinder Bumble. >> Tinder and Bumble. Yeah. And uh I went out with uh women um and I'd pay or they
01:20:56
would pay, whatever, and then I'd say, "Well, I haven't I actually can't afford
01:20:59
to, but they would pay." And um and then my wife and you know, went through [ __ ]
01:21:06
with me and and and I don't want to slag off my ex-wife because, you know, I have
01:21:09
a beautiful child with her and that, but she sort of instigated this, you know, thing for a number of reasons. she
01:21:17
wanted to get back at me about and and then I don't need to get into that. But
01:21:21
to cut a long story short, a reporter rang up me, you know, and started saying this and this and this.
01:21:29
You've gone out with these women. You've taken money from them and and I said,
01:21:33
"No, I haven't. You know, I haven't at all. I've uh had people who have paid
01:21:37
for me at times, and if I have money, I'll pay. I'm I'm the first person to
01:21:42
put my hand in my pocket, and if I go out with a group of people, I used to do it all the time. I've got nothing to
01:21:46
show for it now because I used to spend my money on all my mates, my guys and girlfriends and that and uh and all that
01:21:52
stuff. But then it's interesting when someone um basically what it was is they went out
01:22:00
to get dirt on me and and as I said before, Dom, I think I had I had mates phone me up saying, "I've had a reporter
01:22:07
phone me up trying to get information about you. Have you have you done anything?" and and my ex-wife said it
01:22:13
was uh money that we lost on a house because we she put money into buying a house for us. I didn't have any money to
01:22:21
put down as a deposit. So, when we sold the house, we ended up losing a h 100red
01:22:25
grand. Uh we bought in Teino. Do you know where that is? >> Takino? No. Where is that?
01:22:30
>> It's the middle of nowhere, mate. So, we bought a house in the Ward in W Pukar
01:22:36
out that way, central Hawks Bay. Didn't work out. But we ended up losing, you
01:22:40
know,und whatever grand. >> So I have nothing to show for this money that apparently of but that's you know
01:22:48
it's >> it's it's not going to be a story unless that something's
01:22:51
>> Yeah. >> And and like and my lawyer said we could we could do these people for defamation.
01:22:56
If I was such a bad people say you should be locked up. If I'd been such a bad person and done such awful things
01:23:04
then surely they would have held me accountable and I would have had to pay for it. But there was no story other
01:23:10
than this. And then when they rang me up to fact fact check stuff and I said, "What do you just do whatever you want
01:23:18
to do? Why? Whatever you want to write for because you're going to do it anyway."
01:23:22
>> You know, people that know me and, you know, and care for me and love me, they
01:23:25
know what I'm like anyway. And uh >> you know, a as I get older, like um the
01:23:31
older I get, the realize the less I know. And I understand that things are never black and white. Like there's
01:23:35
always this gray area. But um when there's six women coming at you, that's
01:23:40
that's a big number. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it was basically just um there was one lady when I when I
01:23:46
started working for Idea Services, which works with uh special needs kids. Um I was seeing down a masters and and she
01:23:54
lent me 500 bucks, you know, to to to to just, you know, buy food. And when I was
01:24:00
in my moved into the flat, I gave it to her when I got my first pay. M >> but she was one of the people that you
01:24:06
know said that I owed her money and and it felt for me or to a lot of my friends
01:24:11
I haven't seen these these stories by the way I never looked at them and and
01:24:15
my mom and that you know it it it damaged relationships with family and friends and brought shame on our family
01:24:22
you know and people were really disappointed my grandmother was old school you know and and it and it and it
01:24:28
was and and it nearly killed me um but I um I I feel like I was hung out to dry and
01:24:36
just 90% of everything was just [ __ ] >> Uh but whatever I wanted to come back with was
01:24:46
not going to get me any joy anyway. So I just accepted. But like I said, six women. I went out I went out with more
01:24:52
than six women, mate. But uh one was my wife, one was this lady. and and they were just I I honestly didn't feel as if
01:25:01
I ripped off anyone to be honest. >> What do you think it is? Why did they
01:25:05
all have an act to grind then? Were you drinking at the time and it was just like messy relationships or
01:25:10
>> pretty much? >> Yeah. Yeah. You know, sort of being a womanizer, I suppose, when
01:25:17
you're you're going out with someone having and having fun and realizing
01:25:21
that's actually not what you want. uh and that person sort of oh well you know
01:25:26
I put a lot of into this and you haven't returned the favor sort of thing as far
01:25:30
as uh you don't want me and uh >> you know so I'll have a crack at you and
01:25:35
get back at you in some some form or other you know >> so so but that figure that they took
01:25:40
about 150,000 so say >> blown away >> absolutely blown I've never had any
01:25:46
>> so no loans or anything so is it like you maybe you were living with them and
01:25:49
you weren't paying rent or something so they work out a a Oh, no. I wasn't
01:25:53
living with any of these women. I had >> one lady that was in there um lady that
01:25:59
I lived with in in uh Levin. I I paid for her to live with me and and her daughter also. And I paid for a trip one
01:26:07
one year. We went away with friends and I paid for her and her daughter to to go
01:26:11
to Bali. He went to Bali for 3 weeks and uh at the end of our relationship when we split up um she reckoned that she had
01:26:20
a had a bill for $4,000 on a on a credit card and she wanted me to pay for it. >> And I said to her, "Wait a minute, what
01:26:28
about all the money I've spent?" So it's like, you know, >> yeah, I just think anyone that's
01:26:35
listening to this will will think you must have to be the unluckiest [ __ ] alive then if if none if if none of this
01:26:41
is true and you got these >> Well, no. Well, it's, >> don't get me wrong, it's not like they
01:26:47
haven't spent money on me, but I've done the same thing. >> I'm just not asking for a return for it.
01:26:52
It's like, Dom, I'll go out with you tonight, mate. We'll go and we'll get on
01:26:55
the turfs and I'll I'll shout you tonight. You can shout me next time. M
01:26:58
>> you know it's like I got I I really feel as if I got a uh you know a bad hand
01:27:04
dealt to me and uh and but that sells stories and you know I was speaking to Dennis Katanos you know there
01:27:13
guy a good friend of mine who you know who's a commentator on Sky and etc etc
01:27:18
and he said to me he saw that documentary or that that article about me and it was awful. He said it was,
01:27:23
"Oh, I felt so sorry for you." But he said, "Uh, I I've I've uh seen where reporters have
01:27:33
interviewed someone and then their interview and the questions they asked have been totally changed round to to
01:27:39
make out that your ex whatever, you know, and and I and I just felt like I uh I didn't get a fair sort of crack of
01:27:48
the whip sort of thing." I think that's um yeah part of the reason for the
01:27:52
international rise of like podcasting in recent years just because um the mainstream media they have their sort of
01:27:57
agenda or their narrative and that's what they want to follow. >> Yeah.
01:28:00
>> So they might um ask you for your side of the story but they've already got the
01:28:04
story >> Yeah. >> sort of narrated or the angle they want to go with.
01:28:07
>> Yeah. 100%. And that's that's I mean but I've seen it in sport all my life where
01:28:13
I've you know I've seen reports on games that I've been at and watched
01:28:17
>> and the reporters done a report on the game and I'm thinking what game were you
01:28:21
at you know so >> so there was another story in 2018 same year um about your relationship with an
01:28:28
85year-old livein woman. >> Oh my gosh that's love it to bits u a lady called Patty
01:28:35
and >> so how old were you at the time? So 2018, so seven years ago. So you're 48.
01:28:41
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> 48. So she's 85. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Patty um lives in Levin. Her her
01:28:47
husband had passed away. Um so I I was selling real estate in living at the time. So she used to get my I used to
01:28:54
have these two special needs, a couple that used to each month my uh my zone they would go and you know I do a
01:29:02
newsletter. It was pretty I used to put a menu and have a interview someone you know in the local community and you know
01:29:10
I used to love it you know but I was probably ridiculously poor at doing it but I used to have a thousand flyers
01:29:16
each month that would be handed out by these friends um um each month and and and I hund sorry a thousand households
01:29:26
and basically selling me as a real estate agent and uh and having a bit of a newsletter to go with it just to give
01:29:33
something to read. And um and this lady called Patty phoned me up and said, "Michael, my husband's passed away. Uh
01:29:40
you know, would you like to come and chat to me about my house, what I should do with it?" Patty was 35 years older
01:29:45
than me. And from the first day I met her, fell in love with her as as like a mother
01:29:52
type figure. And and she sort of, you know, used to tell me about her ex-husband used to be a boxer. English
01:29:58
guy came after these two little dogs. And I used to I ended up telling her to keep her house. She's got a beautiful
01:30:05
home. It's lovely here. Don't don't sell it. Just, you know, just you know,
01:30:09
you're here. You've been here for the last 50 years. You know, stick it. But
01:30:12
we became great mates. So when I left Levven, even when I was in Levven, I used to go and eat with her, she'd come
01:30:18
around to my flat. I'd go around and see her. Um that person who did this this
01:30:24
interview or this story tried to imply that uh that I uh she tried to imply that I was having a
01:30:35
physical relationship with Patty. And I said to her, she's like my mom, you know, that's that's sick, you know. And
01:30:42
uh oh, it's just just ridiculous [ __ ] you know. >> Patty, when I was really unwell, Patty
01:30:50
helped me financially. She gave me $8,000 in total. >> Uh and that was to to say, I just want
01:30:56
to help you. And uh I never gave it back to her. >> We were best mates. I used to go and
01:31:01
stay with her at Christmas and New Year's and and she would come and stay at my place. Uh, and we were just like
01:31:07
a, you know, like a son and mom type thing, you know, and that and that was it. Uh, but her family
01:31:17
cut cut me off because they didn't like that we'd become so close and Patty was
01:31:23
always on about me and that sort of stuff. And they that was that that was basically that they they approached
01:31:29
after seeing the article the first article >> they approached a reporter and said oh
01:31:34
he's taken money from this old lady part of our family. >> Yeah. In the article um it said um uh
01:31:40
records showed she transferred nearly $20,000 to uting over the last couple of years.
01:31:44
>> Yeah. It was nowhere near that. Yeah. But uh but she she she helped me and uh
01:31:49
and if it wasn't for her, Dom, I'd be on the street, you know. >> I wasn't I was I was selling real
01:31:55
estate. You don't get paid if you don't sell. And >> I spent about in the space of two years
01:32:01
I I had like over 20 stays in hospital with my heart issues and that. So Patty was my lifesaver.
01:32:09
>> She was cool. We And I've got no bones about telling people that. >> Yeah. Is she Is she still alive now or
01:32:13
she passed away? She's down in she's in a home now. She's she's got dementia or
01:32:18
dementia coming on. Um so they put her in a home and the family have basically said I can't have anything to do with
01:32:27
her. She phoned me for months. She used to and I used to always love chatting to
01:32:32
her and that but then I said to her I can't we can't >> just not you know like I said before I've cut out
01:32:38
a lot of people in my life uh because of the you know the [ __ ] that came with it
01:32:43
you know I I love Patty to bits I love I still love her to bits uh but uh but yeah that's
01:32:51
>> Do you regret taking even if she was she was offering it or almost forcing it do
01:32:55
you regret taking the money from her? >> I do. Yeah, definitely now because but
01:32:59
at the time I I I >> I had nothing. She wanted me to live with her as well like she's going just
01:33:05
you can move into my flat or into one of the rooms and I said I don't want to do
01:33:08
that but uh >> but we had a relation she was my best mate. She was actually my best mate for
01:33:13
years and >> and it and it it broke my heart to have to you know sort of close a door on our
01:33:19
relationship because we were >> we were best friends. We used to play back gaming together and go for walks
01:33:24
and >> walk the dogs and >> Yeah. I suppose um like for me sitting here and I suppose anyone watching this
01:33:30
or listening to this will feel the same way. My mom's in her 70s. She's she's
01:33:34
still sharp as attack, but if she formed a relationship with a with a young dude,
01:33:40
>> I' i'd want to keep a close eye on it and but I think I'd be okay with it cuz
01:33:43
I know my mom can make her own decisions. But as soon as like financial transactions were taking place, that's
01:33:48
when I'd be like, "Okay, something's not quite right here." Do you know what I
01:33:52
mean? >> Yeah. No, I I totally understand where you're coming from. Um and and and just
01:33:55
to just answer like I just did. >> Yeah. >> Patty helped me out financially.
01:33:59
>> She was able to help me out and she wanted to and and I didn't I didn't say
01:34:03
oh yeah give me money or anything like that. >> But when I was in a hospital and she
01:34:07
came to see me and she said look you know how you going to pay you when I said I don't know that. She goes let me
01:34:11
help you. >> And she was in a position where she could help me. I couldn't help myself.
01:34:16
>> And and she was my mate. >> I would have done the same. I've helped
01:34:21
so many people in the past. I'm not going to ask for anything back in return, but but I'm being honest with
01:34:26
you. She uh >> I love Patty to bits. You know, we had a relationship that was like a a you know,
01:34:33
mother son >> and uh and and she helped me when I was going through tough times and
01:34:40
>> and if I and if she hadn't have helped me, then I ended up would have been on
01:34:46
the street, you know. So, I'm very fortunate to have had that the love and support from her.
01:34:52
>> But, uh I hated the way other people try to know sort of uh they were reporter
01:34:59
that did the article tried to uh to make it a you know a lot sort of negative I suppose. Yeah.
01:35:09
>> I'm not sure the right words but uh >> but there was just a lot of love there
01:35:13
you know. So, I I miss Patty today to be fair. >> So, you're 55 now. Yeah. Um the rest of
01:35:21
your life, how do you how do you hope that's going to look or how do you think
01:35:24
that's going to look? >> I think um I uh the visions of grandeur that I once had are probably behind me
01:35:31
now. But I uh I just happy to be alive, you know, as I said. Lucky to be alive. >> Yeah. Very lucky. and and as I said
01:35:40
before, the experiences and the people that I've that I've met and had, you know, in my
01:35:47
sport and just getting around the world and that, you know, let lets me tell a story like I've spoken to you about
01:35:54
today. And uh >> so I'm extremely lucky. Um if I die tomorrow, you know, touch what
01:36:01
I won't, but uh >> I'd be very thankful for the life I've had.
01:36:05
>> Yeah. I um I still keep in touch with mates that I grew up with at Noyo and
01:36:12
you know when I was a >> 5-year-old kid and that I'm still match with the you know the guys I grew up
01:36:17
with in school and that and they were still in Wellington and you know and it's amazing because you know they've
01:36:23
got the families and the picket fence and that sort of stuff and I sort of envy them for having that cuz I never
01:36:29
had that you know it's what you don't have you always wanted and but I uh
01:36:34
I'm just quite content now. Even though I haven't got the wealth or the, you
01:36:40
know, and I've had some poor press and I've had a lot of [ __ ] I've also had a
01:36:45
wonderful life as well. >> And I just think it's been appreciative of, you know, of what what I have
01:36:51
achieved. >> Um, I love people more than anything else, Dom. And >> yeah,
01:36:57
>> you know, I still keep in touch with, you know, my Facebook. I've got, you
01:37:00
know, nearly 5,000 friends and or acquaintances, but, you know, I'm still mates with people I played football with
01:37:07
in Africa and, >> you know, and I know that I want to get get over there in the next couple years
01:37:11
when my health is better, visit my father and and visit friends that are that I've got relationships with that
01:37:20
started working together and they will last a lifetime now. So, pretty lucky, you know, and it's pretty cool.
01:37:28
>> Yeah. and your mental health these days. How's that? >> Yeah. No, good. Good. I um I I I've
01:37:35
never been diagnosed officially, but I think I do have AD ADHD. A lot of people have mentioned that. I
01:37:43
I um how can I as far as relationships go? Um I think I'm better just being by myself
01:37:51
now. You know, I've sort of >> you you there's um you often need to
01:37:55
work on yourself before you're ready to let someone else in. Maybe there's work that you've been like
01:37:59
neglecting for years that and now's the time to do that. >> Well, I think a lot of that's got to do
01:38:04
with u people with that that have issues. >> They look at uh and you find this a lot
01:38:11
in rehab. You'll find a lot of people in Alcoholics Anonymous or or NA Narcotics
01:38:16
Anonymous. they'll side with other uh uh addicts, you know, and um it's probably
01:38:24
the last thing that they say you should do because, you know, two people who both have a have a have a problem
01:38:31
shouldn't be working together to sort of to to sort it out. >> I um but often they do. I uh you know
01:38:39
what getting back to what I was saying before about what I've achieved and you
01:38:42
know and and sport and that in life it's really you know providing obviously
01:38:49
Patty helped me financially for a time so I value that but um most of the stuff I've done in my life
01:38:57
it's it's all been on my own back >> you know and that's that's generally
01:39:00
what we're going to >> you know we'll get out what we put in anyway in general but uh
01:39:06
>> yeah I just just just happy to be me, you know, just just I don't know what tomorrow brings,
01:39:13
but >> I rather than thinking about tomorrow or yesterday, >> I'm quite happy in the now. Just
01:39:20
thinking about today, what's good for me today like you know this morning I woke
01:39:24
up woke up and I was a bit didn't have a great sleep because of my friend passing
01:39:27
you know committing suicide and >> but I was really excited about coming and speaking to you.
01:39:34
>> Were you Yeah. Were you nervous or just excited? I'm not nervous at all, mate.
01:39:37
And uh I tell you, you like I said going back to that Brazil game, you know, before the Brazil game and coach goes,
01:39:43
"Do you want to say anything?" And I remember in the toilets and Chris
01:39:46
Zorich, our captain was I think he was throwing up in the toilet next to me. I couldn't see him with cubicles and I
01:39:53
said to him, "Who's that?" He goes, "Zoro." He goes, "Arts." I go, "What
01:39:56
man?" He goes, "You're going to have to be bloody fantastic today, mate." And I
01:40:00
said, "Mate, I just played football for the first time in two years the other
01:40:05
day." You know, how lucky am I to be here, you know? It's like, go and enjoy
01:40:10
yourself, you know? You know, that sort of things. >> Yeah. So, I had um you know, Sir Steve
01:40:15
Hansen, the old black coach. >> Yeah. Lovely guy. >> I had him on the podcast recently and
01:40:18
he's got a he's got a theory and um the more I think about it, I think it's true
01:40:21
that a person's um greatest strength is also their greatest weakness. >> Um yeah. What do you think yours would
01:40:28
be? What? Greatest strength or greatest weakness? >> Well, he he reckons they often the same
01:40:34
thing. >> Uh actually, yeah, you Yeah, I've never thought of this, but uh I think my
01:40:41
greatest strength is my uh my people skills. >> I u I love to help people. Uh and that
01:40:47
and you know, we do these things, you know, people say you help people for you, not for the you're not getting
01:40:53
anything out of it. I get a reward out of it by helping people. It's my medicine. And uh that's probably my uh
01:40:59
biggest uh positive. >> But like you just said, that can work as a negative because when people when you
01:41:08
when you when you give a little bit, >> they can take advantage of you. >> Exactly. And when you are and when
01:41:14
you're not continuing to uh they might be upset with you for that, you know, if
01:41:19
that makes sense. >> Yeah. No, it does make sense. What Well, what would you have said? What would you
01:41:22
have said your biggest weakness or your biggest flaw is or your worst habit? Well, I think my my my biggest weakness
01:41:27
is probably uh is giving too much of myself and and I do get upset when people don't I mean
01:41:37
I'm the sort of guy that uh if he says he's going to phone you, he'll phone
01:41:40
you. >> I like to be on the phone talking to mates and giving someone a call and
01:41:44
saying, "How's your day going?" and checking up on people. >> Uh so, so I like that. Um, I don't like
01:41:51
it when people sort of take and don't give back, >> you know, and and I always and I
01:41:56
actually get I probably get a bit despondent when they do that. >> I uh >> Yeah, that that that's probably where
01:42:03
I'm at with that, I suppose. If that makes sense. >> Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I'm
01:42:06
probably much the same. Like I think my uh greatest strength, if it's also my
01:42:10
greatest weakness, would be being a people pleaser. >> Yeah. You know, it's a really good
01:42:14
thing, but then it's like Yeah. You can get taken advantage of. Well, Dom, the
01:42:20
one thing, yeah, you can because >> it didn't matter, like I said before,
01:42:24
about the doing the the 100 nice things and one negative thing. People are going
01:42:29
to harp on about the negative, you know, and unfortunately that's that's life. I
01:42:33
mean, I spoke to um what's the cricket's name? Jesse Ryder a few years ago and I
01:42:39
said to him, "Jesse, you're a few years younger than me, but your career sort of
01:42:43
sort of emulates mine to a certain degree because Jesse, after having a chat with him and, you know, learning a
01:42:49
bit about him, he's just a good guy. like to get on the piss and play a bit of cricket, you know, but uh
01:42:55
expectations of him were so much different because of his ability as a cricketer and that was too much for him
01:43:02
to sort of take on and and and and to live up to and he just didn't want to.
01:43:07
>> You know, not everyone wants to go and be a role model. You know, I was someone
01:43:11
who >> wanted to be seen to be doing the right thing and do the right thing to everyone
01:43:16
or for everyone. Uh but I didn't always achieve that. I know. Yeah. Do you um do you still have
01:43:24
whatifs about your football career or not? Really? >> Yeah. Yeah. Big time. Big time. I uh and
01:43:29
that's basically, you know, I used to think that we were from a different world. You know, we're from
01:43:37
New Zealand, which is a, you know, little speck in the South Pacific. Uh, and there's no way that
01:43:46
I'll ever have the opportunity to achieve what those guys are achieving, you know, just, you know, never never.
01:43:52
>> But, um, >> you just don't allow yourself to dream that way. >> Yeah. I can't play professional
01:43:57
football. I'm never going to play for New Zealand. That sort of stuff. But, you know, things are achievable. But,
01:44:02
but you need if you've got no one telling you that, like my, it's funny. I
01:44:07
was talking to my mate Jeff Martin. He and he's in Wellington and he's got a
01:44:10
family and lives in about a stone throw from where we grew up. So he's never
01:44:15
really moved up. He's got the wife and he's an accountant. And I said to him
01:44:18
once said, "Mate, this is probably, you know, in the last couple years." I said,
01:44:22
"Did without sounding like a dick, but did you guys think I was going to be any
01:44:27
good?" And he goes, "All of us, our mates, it's like you were the freak, you
01:44:33
know? We all knew you were great." And I said, "Wouldn't you [ __ ] tell me? Oh,
01:44:38
you wouldn't have listened at that age anyway, would you? >> I don't know. But not maybe, maybe maybe
01:44:43
not. But no one ever told me that >> you you could be really good. >> Do you think it was like easy come easy
01:44:49
go with talent? >> Uh people ask me that, you know, it's like and you know, you having a talent, you
01:44:57
you can't be a great player without talent. >> Doesn't matter how hard you work. If you
01:45:01
don't have the have the talent, you're not going to do it. You know, you've got
01:45:04
to have the you know, the other stuff that goes with it. hand eye coordination. Yeah. Natural
01:45:09
coordination, all that stuff. >> Yeah. So, so you need that. So, >> that's only going to get you so far
01:45:15
though, right? >> Yeah. Exactly. I mean, I also, you know, as much as I say I was a bit
01:45:20
of a slacker and I used to get on the piss and that sort of stuff, mate. I trained harder than anyone, you know. I
01:45:25
I trained really hard and uh you know be doing you know thousand situps at a training session that sort of stuff and
01:45:32
busting my guts and doing running doing doggy sprints and that sort of stuff and
01:45:37
doing extra stuff and plyometrics and that sort of stuff. So although I think I probably underachieved, I still worked
01:45:46
bloody hard. You know, you have to to to get to that level I got to. >> Um but uh but as I said in the you a few
01:45:54
times now, my biggest uh disappointment is that I u and and and I believe that everything happens for a
01:46:03
reason, you know. So this is how it was meant to go. So all the good and the bad
01:46:07
that I've been through, that's how I was meant to go anyway. You can change those
01:46:12
things by acting in certain ways, but generally your life will be planned out. You know, the doors will open in certain
01:46:19
ways for you. But I uh but I Oh, what am I saying? I just I don't know. Just if I'd had someone
01:46:31
supporting me, I think I would have been a lot different. And I and I've seen a
01:46:36
lot of people in sport and and life that have achieved um I had a mate of mine who who used to
01:46:43
play for Wellington cricket and I thought he was a pretty average sportsman but he was the captain of our
01:46:49
cricket first 11 at school and he was the captain of the rep team soccer and his dad was a big gun you know in
01:46:55
business and so he got all these sort of uh backhanders I suppose to help him get
01:47:01
uh uh to a certain level but That's as far as he could go because he didn't
01:47:06
have the rest, you know. I was lucky that I had that little bit of icing on top.
01:47:11
>> Uh >> that X factor. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. >> What about regrets?
01:47:17
>> U Yeah. Just a lot of things I I don't so much have regrets as far as um
01:47:30
I can't change what's what's happened, you know. I don't if I could I would
01:47:35
have. Yeah. I would have done a lot of things different. >> I would have made a lot of choices uh
01:47:39
different choices and u but uh but but I don't regret what I've done because it's
01:47:45
given me the uh well that it's given me the opportunity to sit down with you
01:47:51
today because of the choices I've made. >> When was the last time you cried?
01:47:56
>> Uh I cried this morning actually. >> Oh about you mate. >> Yeah.
01:48:00
>> Yeah. Yeah. Oh, mate. I'm a shocker when it when it comes to movies. Um,
01:48:05
>> I'll cry. I'll cry. If I don't fall asleep, I'll cry normally.
01:48:09
>> I norally one or the other. >> I normally Yeah, cuz working with special needs kids. I often go to the
01:48:14
movies with them and uh we're normally watching something which are, >> you know, PG5 sort of thing, you know,
01:48:19
and uh and uh >> some of those Pixar movies are very emotional. >> Yeah.
01:48:24
>> Like the the the old man and the boy in the house with the balloons and up.
01:48:27
>> Oh, yeah. I know. >> That gets me going every time. But I but I um
01:48:33
>> m I'm a big softy, you know. you know, my my uh the worst the worst thing about
01:48:39
that stuff, you know, with the the bad press and and this is something that I really want to let let you know about is
01:48:46
I've got big shoulders and as much as it hurt me uh and and and it did really
01:48:51
scar me emotionally, >> uh just the thought of what it did to my my family and that that for me is
01:48:59
crushing. M >> my grandmother's my grandmother was married a couple of times and she put
01:49:04
two husbands, you know, in the ground and and she was old school. I went to visit her one day and she's like 80
01:49:10
years old and I've gone down to Christ Church to visit her in the winter and uh
01:49:15
she's out the back her, you know, her husband's in the side in front of the
01:49:18
fire and she's out the back chopping wood. >> She's 80 years old, you know, she's
01:49:24
amazing. >> That's goals. That's what you want to be. But she uh but I but I uh I let her
01:49:32
down, >> you know, and uh that that for me is a heartbreaker as well. >> How how close are you? If you had to put
01:49:40
a number on it, like between 1 and 10 or one and 100 or whatever, how close are you to being the best version of
01:49:45
yourself, you know, mental mentally, spiritually, physically? >> Um I think um in certain areas I'm I'm
01:49:53
I'm I'm doing very well. Uh, one of those has just been uh my uh my grounding now. I'm a lot more grounded.
01:50:04
I uh It's funny when you've got lots of money and you've got all these things
01:50:07
and all these doors that can open and all these people wanting a bit of you and the phone never stops, you think
01:50:12
you, you know, you know, unbeatable. And but when I get to where I am now after being through all this [ __ ] I realize
01:50:21
that uh you know that the the the best version of me is just a watered down uh humble
01:50:30
uh I can still tell the stories on that and think gosh, you know, I'm lucky to
01:50:34
be here. But but I uh my biggest joy is is watching my daughter. You know, she's
01:50:43
my uh she's just the most amazing thing I've ever imagined having in my life.
01:50:48
>> Yeah. >> And uh you know, I coach kids still out at West Oakland and and that's a huge
01:50:54
buzz for me, >> but just being you know, just just not having the highs and lows now
01:51:01
is probably the best thing for me now. So, in a way, >> keeping keeping things at a smooth five
01:51:06
out of 10. >> Yeah. Not having the dramas is huge for me now. And >> and uh
01:51:11
>> you know, I've I've I've I've been everything I've done has been uh and
01:51:18
everything that's happened to me has been my doing. So, don't get me wrong,
01:51:23
all the good things that came my way have been my doing, but all the bad things have been my my doing as well.
01:51:29
>> Uh to a lesser extent. Uh I feel that uh you know I could have done a lot of
01:51:36
things a lot differently >> but that's life. So now just uh and as far as like where am I at now with you
01:51:44
know with with how much of me is is a positive. I uh going for walks with my addict friend is a positive.
01:51:54
Coming home at night and having a quiet night. You know I I go to bed early now because I just normally get on my phone
01:51:59
and watch a bit of YouTube. play some marjon on loan and and just and just have a really really easy going
01:52:06
distance, you know. Yeah. I don't go out. I don't go out at all. >> Well, it seems like in the in in a past
01:52:12
life you were attracted to the chaos and it it didn't serve you well. >> Well, I think it's I think what it was,
01:52:18
Dom, is um more than anything was this loneliness. You know, I think >> you know, when you're lonely and you're
01:52:24
playing sport and you've got lots of money and uh you know, the people that you know, the hangers on and that sort
01:52:30
of stuff aren't probably good for you. You know, it's funny guy. I uh I'm still
01:52:35
mates with a girlfriend that I had in South Africa. We used to go to church together on a Sunday to one of these big
01:52:40
happy clappy churches. We used to have these flags and I can't even remember
01:52:44
what denomination it was. But we used to go and and pray and and jump around and
01:52:49
I only went because I met her, you know, it was beautiful and I thought, well, play my cards right and keep going to
01:52:54
church. I might get a date and we ended up going out for a while and then I left
01:52:58
South Africa and didn't go back. But she contacted me years later probably about
01:53:04
10 years ago and we're still good mates, you know. So, as I said before about,
01:53:09
you know, people and relationships, I've been pretty lucky with with what the
01:53:13
sports given me. >> Yeah. >> Are you someone you'd want to go and
01:53:17
have a coffee with? >> Uh, let me put that. Are you Are you proud of yourself?
01:53:24
>> Yeah, I am. Yeah. >> Although I've been through [ __ ] Um, and
01:53:29
I've it nearly killed me. I nearly felt I should take my own life. Then I thought, well, if I take my own life,
01:53:36
who's missing out on me? >> And first and foremost is my daughter. Uh my family. Um
01:53:45
I've had [ __ ] in my life. So all I can do is is today try to be cool guy and
01:53:53
try to be a nice guy and supportive and loving and uh and then do the same tomorrow. And if I can eliminate the
01:54:00
things that hinder that that opportunity like the drinking and that >> then I'm doing okay, you know. I think
01:54:08
now a thing a big thing for me is not expecting too much, you know. And uh >> and the little things in in life are are
01:54:17
worth a lot. >> Well, thanks for the chat today. Um it's been almost two hours. Um people can
01:54:25
listen to this or watch this and they'll make their own mind up about you. Um,
01:54:28
but I find if you have a conversation with that sort of length of time with someone, like it's it's hard to hide the
01:54:33
real person. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I hope it's been okay. I mean, I think Yeah, I've been I've been I've
01:54:40
really enjoyed it today. Thank you. >> Yeah, it's been great. I hope it's been
01:54:44
Yeah, I'm sure some of the stuff hasn't been nice to reflect on, but um hopefully some of it has been awesome as
01:54:49
well. >> Yeah. Well, well, people, a couple of friends, uh, said to me, look, you know,
01:54:54
make sure you have a chat with Dom and say, you don't want to talk about this,
01:54:57
you don't want to talk about that, cuz that's in the past. You don't want to
01:54:59
bring it up. And I said, but that's he wants to talk about my life, so that's
01:55:02
part of my life. So, >> you know, I can't be, you know, all flowers and lovely perfume and all that
01:55:09
sort of stuff. It's, >> oh, that's not life. That's not life. >> No.
01:55:12
>> Um, yeah. And I think, um, >> yeah, people appreciate that. People
01:55:16
appreciate that vulnerability and that honesty. >> Thank you. Um, yeah. So, thanks for
01:55:20
being here today. >> Good, man. >> And, um, yeah, good luck with the
01:55:23
sobriety. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Day by day, mate. Day by day. >> Good on you, mate.
01:55:27
>> Yeah. >> Appreciate it. >> Cheers, Mike. >> Good, man. Thanks.