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[Music] Kiwis love a thirst. Like Finn, we're making [Music] [Applause] [Music]
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waves. Generate switch online [Music] today. Honey smiler. Honey Bill Williams, welcome to my podcast. A
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thanks so much for having me, Dom. Can't wait to get into it. This this is um a
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podcast first. Um in over 200 episodes, you're the first person that's come
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straight from the dentist. I know. I I feel like it's wearing off. So, if I'm sluring a bit, it's not cuz
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I've been on the juice. Although, um yeah, I've done so much research on you.
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It wouldn't be um out of character for you to be pissed before midday. There's a I'm so excited about this chat
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because I I feel like I know so much about you and um I've got so many uh cards here with notes on because there's
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things that I know I can ask you that are going to give us good answers like the time you had two bottles of port
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before midday or the time you stole your dad's tractor to do a booze run. Oh yeah. Um
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but then there's there's things that I don't know about you that I want to I'm
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curious to ask. But um yeah, it's just so amazing to have you here today. No, I
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really appreciate it. Okay. And and on the on the two bottles of port. So that was two bottles before lunch.
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Considering I started at 11:00, I think I finished those by 12 and then I think I polished off another three after that.
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So that's quite a bit of a record. Oh my god. Five bottles in a day. You had a
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very good reason though. This is when you you just found out you missed out on going to the Rio Olympics. Yep. Yep. So
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I took the took the phone call and Yeah. I just saw it's funny. I saw red. I
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don't even drink port. I don't know why that was my choice of uh poison that
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day, but it was maybe I was seeing red. I was going through so many emotions of not being selective for something that
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you tried so hard to to make. Um and with good reason, you know, now I suppose in hindsight when I look back
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like fair enough, you know, I I wasn't I wasn't 100% was carrying injury and I
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wasn't up to it, you know. Um, but yeah, five five reds a port will help you deal
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with that real quick because in the book you didn't talk about the three bottles
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after lunch. Thanks for that exclusive. So, um, who is Honey Hood Mey Smiler? Well, I've got
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some of your sporting achievements here. Um, you won the Rugby World Cup 7s in 2013. uh one of our first professional
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women's rugby players, two World Sevens series titles, once won 44 consecutive
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matches with the Black Fern sevens, New Zealand women's rugby league player of
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the year three times, four rugby league world cups, winning twice, um NRL Ilawar
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Dragons in 2018, signed for the Warriors, but never played 2019. Captain of the Kiwi Ferns when they won the
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World uh the the Nines World Cup in 2019. I mean, it's it's embarrassing the
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list. Like I could go on and on and on, but for for you uh what would your top five sporting achievements be you
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reckon? Oo, cuz there's not one thing I noticed um and and I I wonder if this
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pisses you off like there's not a huge amount of highlights of you online and I
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suppose that's just indicative of where women's sports was throughout most of
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your career. Yeah, absolutely. So if you think like you know um I think it's well
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documented like 18 years in black jersey, right? Well, I'd say 16, well, maybe not 16, maybe 15 of those. A big
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chunk where women's sport wasn't televised, barely any media coverage. Uh, you know, a lot of that was during
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my unprofessional era, right? So, we were paying to play in the back jersey. We were fundraising. I was selling hies.
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I was doing all of that kind of stuff to be able to uh go represent my country um
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in in all those different World Cups. So I mean I did you know have a big chunk of career where you know being part of
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that first lot to be a contracted rugby player. Um and that was awesome but yeah
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when you look back in in terms of my highlight whereas I always tell people oh they're in black and white as in a
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newspaper article there are no sort of video footage of a lot of those highlights. Um which is why I don't know
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when they put stuff on telly it's all the same old it's the same old highlight
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on repeat kind of thing. They just do different angles. Yeah. And you even make a joke about this in some of your
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public speaking engagements, but it's um it's actually no joke. Like who would
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your male um equal be throughout the sort of time that you were playing in either league or rugby? Oh yeah, I
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suppose I have to drop Sunny Bull's name real early anyway. And that because
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obviously um you know he he was you know flourishing in his career alongside and
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it was just weird how our careers were crossing over. you know, he was initial playing league. I was initial playing
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league. I went over to Sevens. He jumped on Sevens and All Blacks and and all of
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that kind of stuff. So, you know, we're crossing over, but yeah, but every like
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Cineville Williams is a is a household name. Everyone everyone knows him. Um Oh, yeah. He's he's a a boxer as well.
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And you're a boxer. If there's time, we'll get into that, but I feel like
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there's so much more of the Honey story to get into. Um but you are undefeated.
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Yeah. One hit wonder. One minute wonder. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So, um Yeah. So for
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you, sorry to put you on the spot, but your top five moments of this epically long career, what would it be? Yeah, I'd
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have to go with all my debuts for every single black jersey. Um, Hong Kong being
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one of those, and that was the Mai uh the Mai Woman Sevens team, my first debut over there. That was just unreal.
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Uh, we played our final in the in the packed Hong Kong stadium on a Friday night. Um, and being able to represent
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my culture first and foremost. So that was kind of my first experience um in a black jersey was for the Martis. Um and
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then obviously my Kiwi Fun's debuts right up there at the top of that. Um had a horror of a of a um first I
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suppose interaction when the ball uh got kicked off to me. But uh I think for me
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it was a realization of doing the anthem and doing the haka for the first ever time in that black jersey that I chased
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for so long. Uh yeah those those definitely top two. The third one which I always talk about that stands out to
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me was that 2013 World Cup where we lost uh first time losing the World Cup in the Kiwi Ferns and yeah that's just one
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of those ones that never never I I can never lose that memory you know because it was just it was a rough time. It was
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a rough time we lost. We should have won. We were the better team but we didn't. Um and then just yeah that that
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sevens that sevens world cup over in Russia of all places playing rugby in Russia in a world cup is super random
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but super cool to go out and win that world cup with with our seven sisters and then jump on the plane and shoot
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straight over to the league. So I Yeah, we can get into that in more detail later. This is a crazy story. So
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you played for two separate New Zealand teams and two separate codes in the space of a week. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and
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we're lucky to make both cuz there was an issue with the the flights, airports
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and flights and trying to cross Russia on my own. Yeah. Crazy. Um, what's one thing about you that
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people would be surprised to know? Oo, I've got a list of five here that I can I can I give I'll give you a few and
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you this will give you time to think. Um, you're you're um you're uh not a
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night owl. You're in bed by 8:30 most nights. 100%. Have you always been like
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a nanner? Yeah, I have been. I honestly have been. I don't know. I just I we
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wear myself out too quickly and like the moment I winter um I'm a 7:30 in bed
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because I hate the cold and um I just need to get in my bed. It's my happy place. Um but I'm not a good sleeper.
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So, I can get to sleep fine and I can do a decent night's sleep, but as soon as
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like there's one little bird that chs in the morning, I'm up. You know, I'm a I'm
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a morning person, so I can't stay asleep for long. But um yeah, that's probably
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just I don't know. It's always been in me. You're you're living life like a
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senior citizen. Well, you Relle, your wife, is she is she a night owl or is she We're the
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opposites. Yeah, she's a night owl and will love to sleep in. And she always
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pre-warns me like the daylight savings has just gone, right? She's like, "Just
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remember there's extra hours sleep. So just cuz you're going to wake up, don't
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wake me up. I'm going to take advantage." I was like, "Yeah, okay."
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Right. Sort of thing. Yeah. She hates it. She hates it. I'm an early riser. Um, another thing about you that most
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people probably won't know, you you once had a job making airline food. Yeah,
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like plane food. Yeah, that was super cool. Um, was it stacking trays? I used to make it of a little competition in my
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head how fast I could do a whole flight. So sometimes, you know, I'll do like a
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thousand thousand flight and just be stacking trays and I' I'd time myself
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and put the little the little cups and the you know the cutlery and all of that and then you got the your little bowl of
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salad and you shoved it in there and sent it off the hot pack and they chuck the hot pack on and then off the flight
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went. So, I I enjoyed that. It was It was a challenging time, but it definitely made me want to go back to
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school. Right. Yeah. This was um and we'll get into this shortly. This was in
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your your badgirl era when you shipped over to Australia. Um another fun fact that people might not know about you.
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Your your specialty dance move is the running man. Is that you used to bust out at Blue Light Discos? Yeah, I I was
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so good at it. And I used to like always be in the final two and then you'd see
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like the judges who were like my cousins. They were like, "Change, like do something. Do another move." I was
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like, "I don't have another move." Like that's it. I used to watch House Party
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and try and do that like little kick trick thing with my brother where you lift your leg up and jump over it. I was
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pretty good at that one, but no, I could never do it now. And your dog understands today Maldi. Yes. Yeah. Both
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my dogs now got another little pup on the way. So um we specifically got um both our pups and sort of made a really
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I suppose early decision that we would only um coded to them in Tel Mari to help us you know learn our own language
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and stuff and it's really cool because if I'm saying it wrong they don't creek
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me and they're really good. Yeah. Um and actually the day the doggy day that they
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go to said actually they're really good with um with learning multiple languages
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because uh you know they had to learn his name. his name is Donga and um they they when I go pick him up they're like
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ranga I was like his name is Donga like this and so they were like really cool with like you know trying to help me to
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teach him to do Mari. Yeah. What what have I overlooked? What is there that people may not know about honey? I was
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born with a club foot and technically um that was deemed a disability when I was
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um I was deemed a handicap baby apparently um because I had a club foot and it was severely it was severely um
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club and so they broke broke my ankle and straightened it with a with a uh cast and I wore cast for like the first
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eight weeks of my life. Um but I it never affected me for the rest of my life. My brother also so it's actually
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heritage in our family. My brother's also born with a club foot and um he also got the cast on the break but it
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didn't quite straighten him fully so he still sort of has a bit of a club foot
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and both of our sons were born with club feet as well. So yeah, super random. Wow. If you're born with a club foot
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does is it like different levels of severity? Yeah. Well, see I know they don't break ankles now. So like
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apparently they just broke our ankles back in the day and just chucked on a cast and straightened it up. They don't
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do that now. Like I know with my nephew, um they they they did cast them, but they have these like new little shoes
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now where they just wind and slowly turn your feet in cuz your bones are so soft
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as a baby. Um but yeah, it's super weird. So you had your ankle broken as a like a brand new but Damn, that is
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traumatic. That was your first first serious injury basically. Yeah, exactly. But I I didn't even discover that until
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I was like, you know, well into my teens and I found the little cast. Like it was
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just sitting in the back of this cabinet at home and I was like, "What is this?"
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And it was literally that little. It was just this little cast that had like, you
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know, been cut off my foot and my mom's like, "Oh, you had a club foot." You
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your parents never told you? No, I just No, they had the souvenir. They had the memorabilia in the back of some drawer
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somewhere. Yeah. Well, I I suppose there's probably no need to bring it up if it's not impacting your day-to-day
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life. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, they just I don't know, just decided never to
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mention it. It's a bit like my uh name. They never really mentioned that. I was
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under he What's your out of all the things I've got, I didn't write this
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down as a note because I thought, you know, we've got limited time and there's
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so much to talk about with you. This is one of the probably one of the least interesting things about your entire
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story. Not to say it's not interesting, but your real name is is Anita. Yeah.
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So, Aneta uh Honey Hide is my legal name, but I grew up as Honey Hunter at school my whole life. And it wasn't
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until I went to s my license that I discovered. Um I knew my first name was Anita and that I went by my middle name,
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Honey. Um but I never knew that I was under Hedime, which is my mom's surname.
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And um yeah, I know I went through school as Hunter. So yeah, all got How when you found out, was it like a
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bombshell sort of thing or just like a No, it was it was just more annoying cuz I was just trying to get my license and
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then my dad was like, you know, they we had to drive, we lived in Patard, you had to drive all the way to Todd
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Courthouse to change it. It was going to cost 150 bucks and we were just like, we
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have that money. So dad was just like, don't worry about it. Just go to heed
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me. So that's kind of how it all panned out. So let's um talk about those early
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years. So potato born and raised potato known for probably pump water now. Yes. Which I see you've got
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hometown represent. Um and the big corrugated iron sheep. Oh yeah that's you know.
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Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Um yeah. What were those early years like? Oh they were cool. E like when I look back now I
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think you you take a lot for granted and like I mean I only live an hour away. I
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live in Hamilton and that's city enough for me. But I I just loved my upbringing. I think now I say that as an
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adult. I think I couldn't wait to get out of as a kid, you know, you just kind
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of always you you yearned for the big lights in the city and and all of that kind of hype, but actually it wasn't I
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got booted to Australia for being naughty that I was like, "Oh, this is too big for me. This is too much. It's
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too fast. I needed to go home, you know." And then I suppose throughout my playing career, having traveled the
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world, loved it. Absolutely. you know, but always have been a homebody, I think, and always wanted to go home. So,
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when I reflect back on my childhood, I love it. I love the fact that I got to play in the street, you know, play on
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the road my whole childhood until the street lights come on. We knew that was the time you had to get home, you know,
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and that was that was the rules. And you played with anyone. You rocked up to anybody's house for a feed. And it's
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just those real tight-knit communities, right, that you just everybody was your family, your friend, and you just felt
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safe. It was a really tough safe upbringing. Um I suppose in a sense, you know, living in those small towns. Yeah.
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You're you're probably how old are you now? What are you? 40 plus. 40 plus. I'm
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not 45. I'm 50. Yeah. So I'm 52. I'm thinking you're probably close to being
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one of the last generations to grow up without the internet. Yeah. Well, I we had the dialup, you know, so we we had
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the little you plug it into the phone port thing and it made that sort of noise and then you connected. Um, so
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yeah, I was and I used to um burn CDs. That was kind of my thing. Like I loved music growing up and so my dad and them,
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you know, had rows of CDs. So then I was the one that burnt off all the CDs for them and made all these mix CDs. I love
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that sort of stuff. But I I had um trays and trays of tape decks as well. So yeah. Oh, old school cassette tapes. I
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love them. Damn. Oh yeah. Um the mix CDs. Yeah. Didn't some some girl steal steal your mix CDs and you broke into
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it, smashed a car window and Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was very protective
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of my music. Don't touch my CDs. I spent a lot of time on the computer illegally
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burning those off. So, um yeah. Why why why were you so angry? I was pretty angry. I don't know. You you talk about
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your upbringing a bit in the the in the book. Um, but the picture that you've
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just painted, it sounds kind of idyllic in a way and kind of cool, but from reading the book, it sounds like um, and
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correct me if I've got this wrong, but it sounds like Monday to Thursday, awesome household, fairly standard, and
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then Friday to Sunday, mom, dad drinking. Um, and it was kind of chaotic. Yeah, it was. It was to be
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honest. There was a lot of domestic violence. And I think that's possibly, you know, it's it's a little bit I
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suppose monkey see, monkey do. And that's where I suppose the anger developed, you know, quite deep-seated
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inside me from a young age. and seeing that seeing the domestic violence, you know, getting we got beat a lot, you
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know, and it was kind of normal back then. I mean, I don't condone it, but, you know, we it was normal for us like
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we got strapped or we got um the wooden spoon often. I mean, me and my cousins, we laugh about it now, but it was just,
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you know, really normal. Um and then, yeah, and and alcohol was huge in our house and and huge in our community. So
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my parents, they drunk heavily in the weekends and then, you know, the fighting and and arguing and all of that
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would come home, you know, would come home to whoever was babysitting us or whether we were there or not. Um and it
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was rough, you know. So for me, I was the eldest of my brothers and that and um you know, we sort of just always in
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that heightened state where we were like, "Oh man, what's going to kick off
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tonight?" you know, so there was that fear that we grew up with and um you know, it was normal, I suppose, for us
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to wake up in a house that had been smashed up, our TV had been broken again and you know, it was just so much going
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on in the middle of the night and we often got picked up. So often whether it would be myself or my younger brother
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would run out and just call the cops up and be like, "Come and get us, you know,
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they're fighting again." And then they just kind of got used to kind of
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dropping us off either back at our grandparents or um wherever else we kind of our aunties and uncles or you know
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just for a bit of saving time and then kind of Sunday morning everyone sober up and we're back home again. Yes. So so
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Monday to Thursday it was always it was always good and fairly peaceful. Yeah. Like my my parents they work really hard
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you know they both work full-time jobs. We kind of you know we only lived around
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this the corner from school. We got ourselves off to school um on our own. my brother and I and um yeah, it was it
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was it was fairly normal upbringing. Um but yeah, it was just it was just those moments and and they were happy
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drinkers, you know, and so it's kind of what we knew and saw. So, it's funny how
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you you think you think they would have got their [ __ ] together cuz it sounds like they um they they quite successful.
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Like your dad has his own business, you end up having like a beach house somewhere as well. So, Monday to
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Thursday, they were kicking ass. You'd think at some point they'd go, "The
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alcohol is not serving us well." Yeah. And I think, you know, when I think back
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then it was kind of normal, like you know, my mom never hid the fact that she drunk right throughout her pregnancies
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with us and that was kind of normal and she used to joke and say we were born in
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a pool of alcohol kind of thing and we just crack up thinking that was funny. Um yeah, but yeah, I mean they
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definitely got their [ __ ] together. They were young parents too, you know, and um
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I think mom was 23 when she had me and um you know, then my brother and my other brother straight not long after.
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Um yeah, I think once we sort of hit those teenage years, um you know, they sort of, you know, things kind of uh
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settled a lot at home and I suppose, you know, there was a lot of growth and a lot of learning done by us as as a whole
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family unit, you know, but there was definitely some ugly times that were that were rough to deal with. Sounds
00:19:03
like your your dad's like a completely your mom unfortunately is not here anymore. Um and we'll get into that, but
00:19:08
it sounds like your dad's like a completely different person now. With with that in mind, um yeah, how how is
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he about the book? Yeah, he was good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like we had not necessarily embarrassed, but you know,
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there was a lot of honest conversations that dad and I had and um and it actually probably took the book for us
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to actually have those discussions. Um when when we were going through the draft page uh pages and that I sent him,
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you know, a couple of those pretty pretty tough chapters and that and um you know, we met up and had, you know, a
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pretty big conversation and and a few tears and we'd never discussed it. So it
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was like it took for the book for us to actually have those conversations and I only tell my my truth and how I remember
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it but actually hearing uh dad's point of view actually gave me a different take on it. So there was lots of things
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I actually decided actually you know I'm going to I'm going to take that out of
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the book because I think how I interpreted it as as a young kid wasn't necessarily um how maybe things panned
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out from hearing my dad's version. But yeah, back then we just you know and we
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were probably that family. We didn't talk about our feelings. you know, we were just kind of that just shut up and
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do what you're told kind of thing. So, yeah. Yeah. It Yeah. It just wasn't um
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wasn't done at the time. Like I had a very normal middle class pucky upbringing, but there's still there's
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still parallels like the heavy drinking in the weekends, spanking. Feels like I was getting smacked all the
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time's belt. And I'd always say, "This is going to hurt me more than what it's
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going to hurt you." And it's like, "No, no, it isn't. It's hurting me a lot."
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Yeah. It's pretty sore. Yeah. Um, yeah. You you said there were there were tears when you ran through the the book
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with your dad. Like tears from you and him or just you or Yeah, I think from both of us, you know. Had you seen him
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cry before? I had and probably um actually only just when my mom got sick actually. Oh, and and I suppose as a
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younger younger I'd seen him, you know, a little bit upset. But yeah, that was
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that was a real um a real healing process, I think, going through the book and and having those conversations with
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my dad were really cool and and my brother as well because I I initially sent the chapter to my brother and said,
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"Hey, look, have a read of this. Like, is this how you remember it?" Cuz it was
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really interesting, right? Because as I was having these conversations with Suzanne, they were bringing up stuff
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that I'd never spoken about for years. And so the first draft was harsh. It was
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harsh. like I didn't realize how angry I was about all of that stuff. So when I
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had to read it physically on paper like whoa like this is this is actually hurting me which is why initially I sent
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to my brother and then to my dad cuz it's like look the intention of the book
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is not to hurt anybody. It's to tell my truth but you know this is coming across
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pretty harsh. Um, and so we did we pul we pulled some stuff back um out of respect for for my family but also for
00:21:53
myself cuz I thought actually I probably needed to go through that for it to actually be said out loud and to read it
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on paper but it it helped heal in a way. Yeah, you're you're a better child than
00:22:03
me. I I put um I put a book out called Childhood of an Idiot which is just like some just some stories and reflections
00:22:09
about my childhood. Um and I didn't I didn't let anyone read it. I didn't you
00:22:13
know I just wrote it and got it out there. And dad called me goes, "Oh, it's
00:22:15
a great book, but it's um I saw it in Paper Plus in the biography section,"
00:22:18
and he goes, "I put it over in fiction." [Music] Okay. That's a nice way of putting it. It's a
00:22:28
fabulous work of fiction, son. Um and the it seems like the big incident, like the pivotal moment in your family, the
00:22:35
turning point was um when you were 16 and you had this fight with your dad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was that was a
00:22:41
huge point, you know, and um and you know, dad went away and did a little bit of time um after that incident and you
00:22:48
know, that was that was hard for us, you know, after that. I I pretty much sort of I wouldn't say I permanently moved
00:22:53
out, but you know, I was I was in and out of my grandparents house quite a bit anyway, but yeah, that kind of
00:22:57
solidified me, you know, kind of moving on and and that really sent me on another pathway. That's when I really
00:23:03
dug in dug my heels in and just started rebelling big time. Um, I turned to alcohol. I turned to drugs. I turned to
00:23:10
anything, you know, just to kind of numb that because I was hurting, you know, like I I loved my family. They were my
00:23:16
absolute rock. And it was really funny. I used to get real pissed off, right? Cuz people would go, "Oh, you're just
00:23:21
like your dad." You know, and I'd be like, "Fuck, no, I'm not." Sort of
00:23:24
thing. But then I'd, you know, reflect and look at myself like, "Yeah, you are,
00:23:28
man." Like, "You're so angry." And I just didn't know how to cope with that
00:23:32
and deal with it. So, um, alcohol, you know, it was again just another case of, oh well, Falco was going to help. And I
00:23:39
was going out and I was I was hitting people. I was looking for fights. I wanted to be this uh this big- time
00:23:46
macho. I wanted to prove I I wanted to prove that I was strong, that I was better than that, and I wasn't going to
00:23:52
um get beat, you know? Yeah. you when you reflect on that 16-year-old version of yourself now like
00:24:00
I know like is is it with compassion or sadness or like she couldn't it was unprocessed emotions e yeah I I think I
00:24:07
look on it with a bit of shame with with yeah with some shame um shame but understanding you know like I sometimes
00:24:15
I go home and I just kind of have to hold my breath when I um see people you know that maybe I've done done wrong by
00:24:22
or you know um and I just kind of think Oh, far out. Like, I hope that you know that they've they've got some
00:24:29
forgiveness in their heart for what I did back years. And most people are like, "N, you know, it's so good to see
00:24:34
you." Like, they've forgotten it. Whereas I still kind of have held on to
00:24:37
it like, "Oh man, I remember." And that's where the shame comes up for me.
00:24:42
Um, so I remember the first time like not long after I um had made the Blackburns and the Potato Rugby Club
00:24:49
asked me to come back and be the guest speaker for their prize giving and I was like, "Oh man, I don't know about that."
00:24:54
that like you know I've done some bad [ __ ] and I hadn't been home for a little
00:24:57
while and I was like and so I said yes cuz it's like you know they're they're
00:25:02
good people and and so how I started my speech was by apologizing I was just like you know what before I start saying
00:25:10
anything about my rugby career and what I've done I mean you guys have all followed my career you know I started
00:25:14
here I just want to apologize I want to apologize to everybody in this room that
00:25:18
I've done wrong by you know and that's whether I'd robbed them whether I'd
00:25:22
pinch their car or you know gone to a party and I don't know kick something over at the house or whatever I'd done
00:25:27
cuz you know I was I was just so loose back then and I was rebelling and I just had this huge chip on my shoulder and I
00:25:35
just didn't care. I was just lacking a whole lot of respect for my hometown and
00:25:40
I just thought um you know that I kind of I didn't give a [ __ ] Yeah. I was I
00:25:48
was that kind of teenager. I just my ego was so big and I just thought I was bulletproof and I owed nothing to the
00:25:55
anybody. So yeah, that was a big apology and and it was received really well. I mean, they laughed about it and I was
00:26:01
just like, "Okay, okay, cool." Then why why why was your ego so big? Um, you know what? I think I was just
00:26:10
struggling a little bit with um with everything with with life and what I was doing with my life. Um, and trying to
00:26:16
figure that out. like man, you know, when you hit puberty and you're trying to figure out where you're going in life
00:26:21
and you know I my happy place was always on the footy field, but I knew that well
00:26:26
I thought at the time that was never going to be a career for me and so I just was lost and I knew I always wanted
00:26:34
um to be something great. I just didn't know how to get there because there was
00:26:37
never a pathway for me that I knew of. Um and so it made me angry made me angry at the world. Um yeah. So you um Yeah.
00:26:47
You describe yourself not just as the school bully, but the town bully. Yeah. The town bully. Yeah. Um so you got
00:26:53
suspended from school twice. Uh and how many times did you end up in court? Uh twice. Yeah. Twice. So was one of them
00:27:01
before you got shipped to Australia and one of them afterwards? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I had like a uh what is
00:27:06
it? One of those um like when you you drink on the street. I had one of those first. Oh,
00:27:13
like like breaching an alcohol ban. Yeah. Yeah. And so I had to go into court for that and then that just kind
00:27:18
of like a slip on the wrist. See you later. But then I mean the big one was you know obviously going in there for
00:27:23
for assaulting another female who was 5 years my senior. Um and I assaulted her really badly. Um you know to be to be
00:27:31
honest that night's a blank to me. I don't really remember it. Um back then
00:27:35
we didn't have videos so people didn't video stuff. We didn't have the phones.
00:27:39
Um but you know the injuries that I inflicted on on that lady was um were quite significant um and enough for for
00:27:46
me to be charged and um yeah to have to go to court for it and it was just yeah that that was me hitting rock bottom
00:27:52
when I knew you know I think I remember waking up the next day and not recalling
00:27:56
anything but I just had blood everywhere all over me and it wasn't mine like cuz
00:28:01
I looked at myself and I was like well I'm good you know sort of thing and I
00:28:06
was like oh my gosh you know and then you know my My mates told me what had what had gone on and and I was just
00:28:12
like, "Oh." And in all honesty, I was like, "Oh, mean." You know, like, "Man,
00:28:18
I gave her a good hiding kind of thing." And then the seriousness of it started
00:28:21
to sink in and I thought, "Oh, man. I'm going to be in [ __ ] for this." So, yeah,
00:28:26
it was kind of crap. Yeah. So, you had to What? You get Did you get diversion and you had to pay you pay for her
00:28:33
dental work? Yeah, I got diversion. So um you know effectively you know I kind of got off um fairly lightly I'd say and
00:28:42
yeah had to play some dental work for her and um do what what do they call it like family group conference and
00:28:47
apologize um you know and her and her and her mom came in um and my mom you know came along with me where to
00:28:55
apologize and things like that. Um, yeah, I sort of haven't really, um, I suppose I'm not sure where that where
00:29:02
that lady is now or or what. I've never sort of been in contact again. Um, I mean, you could have easily kept
00:29:12
on going on on that path thinking thinking, you know, you're you're I don't know, the man or whatever, you
00:29:18
know, and everyone everyone's intimidated by you, but instead like, um, you went like a full 180, right? I
00:29:23
did. I did. Was that the moment? Yeah, that was the moment for me. And obviously it wasn't long after that that
00:29:28
I got shipped off uh went to I know I'd already been shipped off to Aussie. I'd
00:29:33
come back um and then realized like that was it, you know, like I I'd gone to I'd
00:29:38
already been shipped off to Aussie cuz I was already going down a bad track. Um my first night back, you know, that
00:29:43
incident had happened and I knew I was like way off track then. And um I think the most the the worst part was is that
00:29:52
I you know really really like disappointed my grandparents, my parents and that and they were just like oh you
00:29:58
know we're done with you and um I think when you get a sense of you know you're
00:30:01
losing your family your absolute backbone. Yeah. That kind of was like I I can't do this anymore. You know and I
00:30:07
and I was yeah you like I said I was embarrassed and I just you know when people kind of like are ignoring you and
00:30:13
you know it and I I got that sense. It was like it didn't matter where I go,
00:30:17
people knew like and I just could feel those you know that the cold shoulder that I was getting from people who I
00:30:23
thought um you know were like my mates and stuff and and you know they were like they that had enough people had had
00:30:30
enough of that that version of me. So yeah. Yeah. You talk about that in the book. It got to the point where people
00:30:34
are like um you know we're having a party but don't invite Honey because
00:30:38
she's going to stir [ __ ] Yeah. Yeah. She's going to wreck my house. She's
00:30:40
going to she's going to beat somebody up and all of that kind of stuff. So yeah.
00:30:45
But I mean it would have been easy for you just to like double down and go further into that sort of direction that
00:30:50
you're heading in. Like the the hard thing to do is actually do what what you
00:30:54
did. Like you ended up becoming head girl at your school. How did you honestly seriously like how how does the
00:31:01
girl that get suspended twice end up becoming head girl? What the actual crazy e Yeah. Um well so obviously when
00:31:08
I came back from from Australia I asked my MI teacher look could I come? They were going on a kapaka trip. I really
00:31:13
wanted I had massive FOMO. I really wanted to go on it. asked my, you know, I asked my teachers, could I come back
00:31:18
to school? I'd do second year, seventh. And they were like hesitant, you know,
00:31:22
like come on, honey. Like, you've put us through enough [ __ ] for the last four
00:31:25
years. We thought we we got rid of you. But they let me back, you know. I was like, and I I just remember this one
00:31:31
teacher. I remember like it was only like the second day I was back and you know I was never an academic and so I
00:31:36
was I was kind of just doing subjects to get me by and that and I remember one teacher um I think it was like the
00:31:42
social services uh social studies teach or something like that and he was just like man like don't come back here and
00:31:48
like you know you've asked to come back so make the most of it. I was like yeah
00:31:52
I am. He's like, "No, but really really honey, like you've got so much
00:31:55
potential. Like genuinely make a good effort." And I was like, "I am, you
00:32:00
know." And I felt like when I said that out loud, I was like, "Right, I'm I'm
00:32:04
going to prove that to you." Like I was always one to like wanting to try and
00:32:07
prove myself. I said if I said I was going to do something, I was always in. Like I was never a half pie person. So I
00:32:13
think once I made that, I suppose mental mental shift and decided like this is this is what I want to do now. like I've
00:32:20
got a point to prove and I just I just went full circle kind of thing. Um and yeah, I just I it it helped that I got
00:32:28
picked up obviously with the sevens. I'd had a good year with my league that
00:32:32
year. I got picked I was my first it was the first time I got picked in the mai league tournament and so I had things to
00:32:37
to work towards kind of thing. I knew that I like computers and I'd started like sort of dabbling in that. Um, and I
00:32:45
just had a bit more of a pathway and I was a lot more settled then. I'd matured
00:32:48
a lot from, you know, getting shipped over to Aussie and getting stuck in this, you know, this catering job where
00:32:53
I'm stacking trays. I was just like, is this my life? This is not what I want.
00:32:57
Was throughout these these uh teenage years, was sport always a backdrop? Big time. Yeah. Were you just Were you
00:33:03
naturally good or did you have to work hard? I think I was naturally good. Yeah. I knew I was naturally good. Um,
00:33:09
and so I I knew that from a really young age, you know. I knew as a 10-year-old that I could, you know, keep up with the
00:33:16
boys, if not do better. You know, I knew I was I was standing out in those boys teams because I've played with the boys
00:33:21
for like 14 years and till I was sort of 14, 15. So, I I knew um but I also knew
00:33:28
uh I suppose my weaknesses like I I don't I I mean I trained I went to all trainings and stuff, but I wouldn't say
00:33:35
I dug deep in terms of like that that real um I suppose those effort plays and things like that. That wasn't me. I was
00:33:42
I was your fancy guy out on the wing waiting for that wonder ball and I'm just going to go run in all these tries,
00:33:48
you know, I was I was kind of that player. Um and but you know, tell me to go on the work and go in the middle of
00:33:53
the field and do some work. I'm like, it's not not really my strength. Yeah.
00:34:00
Yeah. And your um Yeah. Your fend as well. Your Yeah. Your fend the amount of footage I've said of your fend. It's
00:34:06
like I would I wouldn't want that hand on my neck. It's intimidating. Was that
00:34:11
you was being good at contact sport, was that a helpful sort of outlet for any aggression you had? Yeah, it was. You
00:34:17
know, like I kind of, you know, when I talk about I suppose, you know, my fighting years and my bullying years and
00:34:22
things like that and then I look at my fe cuz I was throwing throwing a few punches around here and there. Um, and I
00:34:30
just, you know, I kind of got to, I mean, I was fairly, I suppose, you know, tall, kind of skinnish, you know,
00:34:38
growing up. But I think when I kind of hit like my teenage years, then I kind of I got bigger, you know, and I just
00:34:44
sort of fooled out. And people say, "Oh, you're a swimmer." I was like, "Well,
00:34:46
no, but actually I can swim." Um and and I just used that strength, you know, I
00:34:52
kind of got quite big and I was, you know, probably a bit stronger than um the other girls and stuff. So I just use
00:34:59
that to my advantage. I knew how to I knew how to use my strengths on the field and those what I focused on. Yeah.
00:35:05
Can you remember the very first time you got to represent the country? Yeah, I can. Yeah. What sport was that for? That
00:35:11
was for rugby league. Yeah, that was for rugby league. So how old? Uh 22. was 22
00:35:18
when I first put on the Kiwi F shoes. Yes. Okay. Oh, I thought it was younger for some reason. Your your career was so
00:35:24
long, eh? Yeah. So, it was Well, I was 18 when I first got selected for New Zealand Maldis and then I think 19 and
00:35:30
20 I was playing New Zealand Miy 7s, you know, cuz those were kind of the only pathways back then. Um, and sort of I
00:35:36
mean, Black Ferns were around. Um, but again, still amateur and then I wasn't
00:35:41
aware of kind of the Kiwi Ferns cuz I sort of, you know, just didn't know about them. you know, they were they
00:35:46
were there or thereabouts, but you didn't sort of read about them or were aware of them. Yeah. Did did you have
00:35:51
any like female sporting role models? I did, but you know, they were they were local women back home who I'd sort of
00:35:58
grown up and who had they taken me under my under their wing and you know helped
00:36:01
me along and they were playing uh you know there's they were playing mis and
00:36:06
things like that with me. So I kind of gone under there but I never saw any fe for female role models on TV you know.
00:36:12
Yeah. I suppose it would just be like what you see at the Olympics or the comm games. It was it was those kind of
00:36:16
Beatress Farina was kind of I think if I recall Beatress Farina was the first female athlete I saw on TV ever. I was
00:36:23
like oh shocking really. Yeah, it was crazy, you know, and so that's kind of,
00:36:28
you know, who my my role models were all males, you know, and that's I think why
00:36:33
I grew up so frustrated because, you know, I always knew that I'm going to I
00:36:37
loved I loved sport. Um, but I knew there was always going to be like this handbreak because, you know, I only ever
00:36:45
saw male male role models. So, I was pissed off. I was pissed off. I was a girl.
00:36:50
So, um, yeah, paint a picture of like women's sport at that time. Like, is were you being paid at all? No, no, no.
00:36:57
We weren't being paid. We were fundraising. We were, um, you know, we we'd go to teams and we'd get like, oh,
00:37:05
I was just constantly running around with these big ass jerseys and, you know, you you just they were always told
00:37:11
you bring your own bring your own shorts cuz they never had shorts for the woman.
00:37:15
Um, and all of that kind of stuff. But I didn't care, you know, cuz we didn't
00:37:19
know. I didn't know any better, you know. It was like we were just grateful to be there and just just wanted to
00:37:23
play. So I didn't give a crap that my jersey was two times too big or hadn't
00:37:27
been washed from the men's have played it on a Saturday and we're playing it on
00:37:30
a Sunday and no one had washed it. It was like, "Oh, gross. That's terrible."
00:37:34
It's like, "Ah, stop it. Let's just go play anyway." Your um now commentator
00:37:38
buddy, Kendra Coxy, I've had her on the podcast and yeah, she talked about that
00:37:42
like having hand-me-down hand-me-down jerseys for the men's. Yeah, it was just
00:37:45
normal. So, but this is this is recent. Yeah. On the like in the big scheme of things, eh, like this is this isn't
00:37:52
Yeah. We're not talking 50 years ago or anything. This is like recent. Yeah.
00:37:55
Exactly. Seems crazy. Yeah. But So, did you have like perdms or anything? Like when you went away on trips, did you get
00:38:01
like a No, no, none of that. I mean, that was, you know, I I think, you know, we didn't I I was probably in my third,
00:38:07
very early 30s before we started kind of getting any kind of like player payments
00:38:11
and whether it was like an overnight or day allowance or, you know, that kind of
00:38:16
stuff. We'd get like $10 for lunch allowance or something like that and $20 for dinner. Um, yeah. So, it was like,
00:38:23
well, that that's going to buy me a pie and a Coke and dinner's going to be
00:38:26
Mackers, you know. But, but they were they were flying your business class to all the tournaments. No way.
00:38:32
I wish. Once once we got B business class and that was on the way home from Dubai because we won the tournament.
00:38:38
That was me. We're in the bar. Wow. We lit that up. Were you I mean yeah women's sports come come
00:38:44
such a long way in like the past like 20 years or so. But were you like were you
00:38:47
guys were you and your teammates like pissed off at the time like seeing the men and how they were treated in
00:38:51
comparison? Yeah. Not yes I suppose yes and no. um like we didn't we yeah again
00:39:00
I just feel like we were just grateful for whatever we got you know we were all about like let's just we we did whatever
00:39:07
we had to do to be able to play you know it took we did whatever it took to get out on that field and we sort of didn't
00:39:12
really I I know me personally I don't really bother to get tied up with the um
00:39:17
worrying about what we didn't have cuz I was just like I'm here you know I didn't
00:39:20
care to play um and I'm going to make that happen and it and it didn't sort of
00:39:25
phase me I think there were times though where like you know we might travel with
00:39:30
the men's team and you know they're all going the front of the plane and we're
00:39:32
way down the back or um we're in camp together and you know we're on bunk beds
00:39:37
and they're in you know the novatel or something like that you know so there
00:39:41
was those kind of moments where just like this is crap but again you just I always just I was always focused on the
00:39:47
goal and that was just to play. I was happy to play. Yeah. M we just before the podcast started we um talked about
00:39:54
uh briefly about an an old mate of yoursy Baker who you used to play with who um I've had on the podcast um and
00:40:01
she talked about some of the trouble she got on on tour. What was the Did you ever get in trouble on tour? What was
00:40:06
the this was in your good girl era by the time you were playing for the Kiwis. But is there anything there you prepared
00:40:12
to share? Yeah, I was probably I was probably like the first one to do the old um I learned this this saying really
00:40:18
quickly. what happens on tour stays on tour. And so I was always the first one to double check that that you know that
00:40:24
those rules applied before we like got on our planes to come home cuz it's like
00:40:27
yeah no I mean I I played a big chunk of my career where you know we played and we we were out the next day you know it
00:40:34
wasn't about recovery recovery was coming home kind of thing. So there was a big chunk of our career where we were,
00:40:40
you know, doing the bus trips and, you know, stopping at the alcohol store and pulling up on the side of the road to
00:40:45
take a pee at the back of the bus, you know, and that's that's what I loved
00:40:48
about it, you know, that's kind of what drew me in. It was those kind of vibes.
00:40:52
And then kind of when we turned professional, you know, that kind of all went out the window. So pros and cons,
00:40:57
e, with professionalism. Yeah. Um yeah, I suppose that it's a double-edged sword e because um you know
00:41:03
with without having the cameras or the public visibility um you don't have all
00:41:07
these all this amazing footage of your achievements, but then the stuff that you you know you wouldn't want people to
00:41:13
see that's not there either. Yeah. I I tell you what, I love going back like
00:41:16
through my old photo albums cuz I always used to have those like little um you know those little portable camera
00:41:21
thingies and I go back through all my albums. I've got some great photos of us
00:41:25
like in Hong Kong and Rome and all over the world. Um, but I only have the photos to prove it, you know, and I'm
00:41:32
just like, man, those those were the days. Like, we just had so much fun and it was just, you know, just when I think
00:41:39
about it, I just think, well, those are where I had my best days. And I feel like it wasn't
00:41:44
um, we were serious, you know, we played so well. We we definitely we did the job. We were there to do the job and we
00:41:50
were on field. We were professional as can be, but the moment that was done, we were like, man, we were there to have
00:41:55
fun and enjoy ourselves. And that was, you know, that's what drove us to be there. So, well, and and so you should
00:42:01
cuz it was kind of a hobby really, wasn't it? Like we were paying. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. It was like a Yeah. It's
00:42:06
like a like a budget sort of holiday in a way because all this is done in the backdrop of like full-time work. Like
00:42:11
you, Meanwhile, you're you know, you're working with um you know, uh youth
00:42:15
justice um and you're working with um kids with disabilities. Yeah. Exactly.
00:42:20
So, you know, a lot of what we we went out and did we were paying for ourselves, right? or we were we had
00:42:26
fundraised and and whatever. So, you know, if we were going to go over there, we were going to make sure that we got
00:42:30
the job done first and foremost and we're going to enjoy ourselves because we all had day jobs to come back to. The
00:42:34
moment we landed back in New Zealand, we knew we're straight back to our families, straight back to being mom,
00:42:39
straight back to going to work full-time. Um cuz that was just how it was. you was it was that stressful like
00:42:45
dealing with employee employers and having to get time off work and just juggling the expectations of you know
00:42:51
keeping your household running and I I think the hard part was that we never really knew what we had coming up you
00:42:57
know like now nowadays you know the athletes say you know they get the full year plan like okay we've got these
00:43:01
tournaments coming up kind of thing and so you could plan ahead where is weird you know maybe find out a two months out
00:43:08
okay hey look we're going to go to this and then you know you didn't get
00:43:11
selected till you know very last minute kind of thing. So, it was just about, you know, trying to give your employee
00:43:17
the heads up. I mean, I worked for Timong for years and um they were great, especially early in my career. They, you
00:43:23
know, really um they sponsored me and they were like, "Yeah, whatever." You
00:43:26
know, they were just wrapped to see me representing uh our country. So, I was I was pretty lucky. The Winger and, you
00:43:33
know, a few of those jobs that I had back then, they all supported me big time. So, that was cool. You know, it
00:43:37
was really important. Yeah. Did you have a a pregame routine for you? How many different sports did you represent? New
00:43:44
Zealand in three. So sevens uh well sevens rugby and rugby league and rugby sevens. Um nines was that national and
00:43:53
nines. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So four different sports. Yeah. Uh I don't know. I I was I was a little bit um I think in
00:44:00
my earlier days I just kind of went with the flow. I was I didn't really um overthink things, you know. I was I I
00:44:09
think I just naturally was a a fairly relaxed person and nerves were always good for me. You know, I never really
00:44:14
got myself in a twist over that cuz I thought nerves for me was excitement and I knew how to utilize that and and cope
00:44:20
really well. Um but music was always a big thing for me. Music was a, you know, big thing for me as a kid and I always
00:44:26
had a set playlist. So when I'm on a bus and we're heading to a stadium or
00:44:30
whatever, I had a set playlist and was my game day playlist and I knew and as we'd get closer I had like you know the
00:44:36
one song and that was um all I do is win. Yeah. I always make sure that that was the last song that I listened to
00:44:42
before we arrived to a stadium. So I'd always map you know like I'm sitting in
00:44:45
the bus. I'd map I'd like to sit at the front of the bus as well so I could see
00:44:49
where we're going and then I'd say okay look I'm four minutes out from we're
00:44:52
four minutes out from the stadium. Boom. And that would be odd. That was always my last song that I wanted to hear in my
00:44:58
ear on the bus as we got there. Who's that? Is that Tain? Uh, no, not T. When
00:45:03
DJ Oh, DJ Khaled. K. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. And they stay there. I love that. Just it just pump it just
00:45:11
pumped me. I mean, I was there, you know. I I never took the field not to win. So, and I I didn't I I don't know.
00:45:17
I didn't shy away from that, you know. I was I was all about winning. So Oh,
00:45:21
that's so cool. What else on the playlist? just sort of like a hip-hop. Oh, old school. Old school. Yeah. Like I
00:45:27
love Temptations. I love Whitney Houston. I love Nolan Sisters. Like real old school. R&B. Old school. Jackson 5.
00:45:36
Um Yeah. All of that mostly. Yeah. Oh, that's rap. I like rap too. Bit of two.
00:45:42
Where where did the love of old school come from? Is that what your parents listen to around the house or? Yeah. I
00:45:47
mean I think Yeah. My parents, my dad was right into music and, you know, Smoky Robinson, all of that kind of
00:45:54
stuff. Robert Gray, so I I still listen to it now. I don't really get into kind
00:45:58
of new music. I mean, I do, but yeah, you'll always catch me playing all the
00:46:03
old school and I and I'll go deep to the 70s. I love um yeah, just all that old
00:46:08
school kind of dance stuff. I I used to really like the um movies like the dance
00:46:12
movies and all of that. So yeah, I love some of that stuff like Glattus Night in
00:46:17
the Pips, Midnight Train to Georgia. One of my favorite songs of all time. 100%.
00:46:22
Who's the funniest teammate you've ever had in all the sports? There's probably two that stand out to
00:46:28
me. Uh Monkey, who's my tour fetica, she played Kiwi friends for us for a long
00:46:34
time. sour girl. She just she just walked in a room and you know the just the what one the volume went up so you
00:46:42
hear you you'd hear her before you see her and she just was this happy buzz person. You just kind of she just you
00:46:48
wanted to be around her. Um but she was really easy to like egg on and and do dumb [ __ ] and so you just kind of like
00:46:55
took the piss and and she was just funny. She's just like she could be a comed a standout comedian for sure. And
00:47:01
the other one was Victoria Zeritzky Nafatali. Um and she was our first five for the Black Burns for quite a few
00:47:06
years and and again very similar um personalities but they just they just were just larger than life. They just
00:47:13
constantly positive just bought this massive aura about them and I love that and they were so confident they spoke
00:47:18
their mind and I just that about and they just you know you're sitting in a team meeting and it's serious and you
00:47:24
get in the growling for whatever and you you're thinking [ __ ] and they you you
00:47:28
just could guarantee they would say the [ __ ] that everybody's thinking but won't
00:47:31
say it. They just blurt it out and it's just like a [ __ ] here they go kind of
00:47:35
thing and I I love that. It's like they they kind of Yeah, I I love their personalities. Um Yeah. Do you miss
00:47:43
that? You retired like 5 years ago. I do. I big time miss the team environments, right? So like you know
00:47:48
and it's all of that kind of stuff like playing pranks like Renee Wickcliffe.
00:47:52
Woodman Wickliffe. She was like the big prankster in our team. Always kind of pulling pranks on people and just just
00:47:58
those connections like when you're on when you're in camp. um you know and
00:48:02
you've got that downtime and you're just hanging out in each other's rooms and
00:48:04
it's just that camaraderie that that you miss and so you kind of and I and I love
00:48:09
seeing it in teams you know and they talk about culture within teams and it's
00:48:12
so like that's probably the biggest thing that I miss like not being in a in
00:48:17
team environments and so you kind of chase that you know in life after sport you chase that whether it's in your day
00:48:23
job or you know now I'm you know I chase that with my sky crew when we're
00:48:26
commentating you know like you I walk into makeup yesterday doing the warriors And I see Laura, I'm like, "Hey, my
00:48:32
teammate." You know, and you're always looking for that whatever work environment. I'm at school at the
00:48:36
moment. I'm studying and I'm like, "Hi, my class friends." You know, like
00:48:39
they're they're my new team. And so, you're looking for that constantly, you
00:48:43
know? So, I love that about um teams. That's probably the the biggest thing that I loved. Now, who are the um the
00:48:50
best and worst people to share a room with? Cuz when you were captain, you got your own room, but a lot of your career
00:48:57
in these different sports was not as captain. Oh, best and worst. Best was probably
00:49:03
Celica Winiata shorty cuz she just slept all the time. Super tidy. I'm I'm a bit
00:49:08
of a tidy freak too. So love that about her. Um and she was just always sleeping. So sometimes I got a bit bored
00:49:14
though cuz I like I want to talk, you know? She just like she just slept all the time. I was like I just could I
00:49:21
don't know how she did it. Um the worst and she's going to hate me for saying
00:49:24
this but is Stacy Walker. So when Stace first come on the um seven scene, you know, it was kind of like that big
00:49:31
sister little sister vibe and we got room together in a couple of tournaments and I was just like she was just like
00:49:36
messy and she was the opposite of Shorty. She's just bubbly and like jumping on
00:49:42
beds and just like this little kid on the heat. I was just like would you just settle down like shut the hell up and
00:49:48
she's you know night hours she'd be up and I'll be like get the hell to sleep
00:49:52
kind of thing. I was she quite a bit younger than you or Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, she makes and she makes sure
00:49:57
everyone knows that she's way younger than me and she's like she's like Yeah.
00:50:01
She's just out the gate. So, um, so the Moscow story, let's talk about that. So,
00:50:07
so you're in Moscow for the Rugby Sevens and then over to Leeds to play the Rugby
00:50:13
League World Cup and this so you played like two two different codes, two different sports for New Zealand in the
00:50:18
same week. Yeah. Surely this has never been done before by anyone? No, not that I know of. Um and and what had happened
00:50:27
was I was able to negotiate with New Zealand Rugby because their event was first. If it was the other way around, I
00:50:34
would have got a flat out no, you know, sort of thing. And so I was I was stoked
00:50:37
about that. So the moment, you know, I knew that that Sevens World Cup was done, they were happy to release me to
00:50:42
go and do this League World Cup and I was the captain. Um but there was just this massive stuff up. So New Zealand
00:50:48
Rugby League had booked my flights at the wrong airport and um you know I had to travel across Russia like 3 four
00:50:55
hours across Russia to get to this other airport on my own and you know my manager at the time was not for the
00:51:01
Sevens cuz I went to the airport with the Sevens girls. We had won the World Cup the next day everyone was flying
00:51:06
out. They're going back to New Zealand. I was going over to Leeds and um yeah I
00:51:10
was on I was at the wrong airport. Um and it was like it just honestly I don't know what came
00:51:19
over me but there was no way I was going back to New Zealand. There was no way I
00:51:23
was going to miss this World Cup because I had that responsibility. I' I'd been
00:51:26
selected as a captain and I was going there, you know, I'd committed to it and
00:51:30
so there was no one no nothing that was going to stop me from getting there. Um,
00:51:35
and so yeah, I just grabbed my bags and took off and just started making my way on my own carrying two big bags across
00:51:42
the country to figure it out. And I had to like do a couple of trains and a tram
00:51:47
and an underground and you know, no one spoke English and it was just it was unreal. When I look back now, I'd never
00:51:53
do that. But I just I don't know what came over me. I mean, I bled my eyes out
00:51:57
for half the trip. Um, but I still it wasn't it still wasn't enough to turn me
00:52:02
around to go back to the airport and be like, "Okay, I'll just go to New
00:52:04
Zealand." Um, and then maybe fly back, but no, I was So, how old were you at
00:52:08
the time? [Music] 2013, I don't know. 12 years. I would have been in my 30s. Oh, yeah. Okay.
00:52:15
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. It's a remarkable achievement. Hey, really? Do you look back and think, how
00:52:23
did I do that? Not just not just the navigating your way around Moscow, but like just you playing two different
00:52:28
sports in two different countries in the same week. It's incredible. Well, I
00:52:33
think I always remember that year like I remember that year in February and I knew that they were going to clash and I
00:52:39
was just waiting to find out what months were on each. So, I'd made a decision
00:52:43
early in that year. I was doing both and I was going to figure out a way on how to do both. So to be able to actually I
00:52:49
don't really think I took the time to reflect on it um for for quite some time
00:52:53
afterwards because I'd made the decision early. I knew that's what I was going to
00:52:57
do and I didn't think it was hard. I just I just thought no I love I love both these sports. I love both these
00:53:03
teams and this is what I want to do. And I didn't think it was like a big mountain to climb. I just I had set my
00:53:09
mind to it. So I knew that's what I was going to do. Um I think what really put
00:53:14
a downer on it though was was we lost. We lost that World Cup like obviously we won the sevens and I was you know you
00:53:20
know totally stoked and then to go over and I just thought you know losing that World Cup just put a hold down on
00:53:27
everything like everything was about losing you know and I I hated it. I hated that year after that. When did you
00:53:33
lose? We lost the League World Cup uh the final to Australia. Um and no shame in losing in a final is there? Yeah but
00:53:41
it was the first time it was the first time uh that we had lost the World Cup. We had won three before that and and I
00:53:47
was a captain and I and I talk about it, you know, pretty regularly, but the first question I got asked the the
00:53:53
moment that final whistle blew and I knew we'd lost from the reporter from the um from the reporter was, "How does
00:54:00
it feel to be the first captain of new the Kiwi Ferns to lose the World Cup?"
00:54:05
You know, and I was like, and that just stuck with me. It's like the one question that stuck with me that whole
00:54:10
World Cup. So, I traveled home like just miserable. I went home the very next day. A lot of the girls, you know,
00:54:15
stayed on, but I never got over that loss. When you reflect on that question being
00:54:22
asked and in particular being framed that way, does does that [ __ ] you off? Yeah. Big time. It's really It's It's
00:54:27
savage. Yeah, it's savage. It's Who was it? What country were they from? Was it
00:54:31
Australia? It was over in England. Who knows? Yeah. It wasn't a Kiwi. No. Lacks all empathy. Just I know.
00:54:39
Crazy. Well, you know, puts me on high alert to make sure never to ask a question like that in the role that I'm
00:54:44
doing now. That's for sure. Well, I think with the empathy of being a former
00:54:48
player yourself, you just you just wouldn't, you know. Yeah, for sure. Um, I'm Buckingham Palace. You got to go to
00:54:53
Buckingham Palace. What What happened with you and Prince Harry? Did you Did you kiss him on the nose? I almost I
00:54:59
almost kissed him on the nose, right? So, they brief you before he comes and they briefed us. So I went over as a a
00:55:04
rugby league World Cup ambassador for New Zealand and um they had a representative from each country and and
00:55:11
we had this certain attire that we had to wear and so you go into Buckingham Palace, you got to put all your phones
00:55:17
away and then um they brief you and they what they did is they they said, "Oh,
00:55:21
Harry's going to come through the store and there's going to be, you know, four
00:55:24
pods and and I was in the first pod and I was the first person in the first pod." And I mean things were um that was
00:55:32
when Harry had just him and they had just announced that you know he was going to step out of the Royal Family
00:55:37
duties and all of that. So media was like packed over there and um and he was the ambassador for the Rugby League
00:55:45
World Cup. We're doing the draw. So anyway, he comes walking in this big amazing room in the Buckingham Palace
00:55:51
and walks up to me and they told us specifically we'll we'll guide him. We'll tell him your name and your
00:55:57
country, shake hands, and he'll go to the next person. So, you know, we're
00:56:01
kind of like, okay, that's what we prepped for. So, they say to him, "This
00:56:05
is Honey, and she's from New Zealand." And he goes, "Oh, cod." And he goes to
00:56:09
put his hand out. So, I was like, "Okay, here's the shake." And then he goes to
00:56:11
lean in and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, they didn't, you know, I thought like
00:56:15
kissing's off thing." So, I was like, so I stick my lips out and then he kind of
00:56:20
tilted his head a bit and I was like, "What's he doing? What's he doing? He's
00:56:23
hunging me." say, "Oh, honestly, the moldy instincts kicked in the very last
00:56:29
minute and I was like, "Do not kiss his nice honey." And he gave me a hungie. I
00:56:33
was like, "Wow, that was so cool." And everyone else in my pool was like, "What
00:56:36
was that?" Like kind of thing. I was like, "Oh, that's how we greet each
00:56:39
other in our culture by pressing noses." They're like, "Oh, wow." And yeah, so I
00:56:45
was just like, "Oh, that would have been the worst." And it was all caught on
00:56:48
camera. So I was like, "I'm so glad that I did not kiss his nose." Oh my god. So,
00:56:52
is there footage of that on on YouTube somewhere? So, someone caught sort of the footage, but yeah, you can kind of
00:56:59
see me sort of starting to pucker and then I did catch it cuz who who were you there
00:57:05
with? What what I just went over as as the representative for New Zealand Rugby League um as ambassador. Yeah. So, on my
00:57:11
own again. Yeah. And apart from that, the whole experience of going to Buckingham Palace. Unreal. Yeah. I was
00:57:18
there with Connie Harel and oh he was he was so funny. I mean yeah it was it was
00:57:24
good. There was there was um it's just unreal being in a place like that. I was
00:57:29
just you're pretty blown away. Very felt very special. Most Kiwis that have been
00:57:33
to London have probably like gone to Buckingham Palace and you know there's the roundabout and the gates and you
00:57:38
have your photo taken but not many of us get on the other side of the gates. Yeah
00:57:41
absolutely. feel like I'd played in the London Sebs, you know, a few years earlier that and obviously we'd all go
00:57:46
there and stand outside the gates and take our photos. I' I'd been there a few
00:57:50
times before as a as a um as a tourist, but yeah, to actually go in the gates and and go inside, that was cool. Yeah,
00:57:58
man. I've got so much um to ask you about your sporting career, but we're on
00:58:02
on a limited um time schedule this morning, so I might have to just fast track some of this, but um so we've
00:58:07
talked about some of the highlights. Biggest um adversities or or negatives with 2016 that would be would
00:58:15
that be top of the list? Not making the Rio Olympics. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, that that was rough as well. Um not
00:58:22
making that. Um yeah, it was it was that you know we were part of that first group that that
00:58:29
go for gold and so it was sort of you know a big four-year journey and we'd been through some [ __ ] in that team like
00:58:35
you know the the it was really it was it was a hard time but but the best kind of
00:58:42
thing you know sometimes you go through those things and when you look back on it now I was like man that never put the
00:58:47
athletes through what some of the stuff that we went through but because we were
00:58:50
new you know we didn't have a blueprint to what we were doing so a lot of stuff.
00:58:54
Obviously, we were trying we're sort of mimicking the men's the all black sevens
00:58:57
and that was during hard times in terms of training. Yeah, the training and the camps and and things like that. So, we
00:59:04
were mimicking a lot of what Titch was already doing with the boys. Um and and that was hard um physically, you know,
00:59:10
that we had the Wu camp where they made us dig holes in the ground like graves and sleep in them overnight and the
00:59:17
freezing freezing cold. Um there was just all these like horrific things they had us doing to try and make us mentally
00:59:22
strong and physically strong and all of those kind of things. And um we were all
00:59:26
learning on the go. So um we'd have these honey badges sessions out on the you know the hottest part of the day on
00:59:32
the mount um on the mount beach. We were just get we're just getting grilled into
00:59:36
the ground out on the sand doing fitness you know and our feet are all blistered
00:59:40
and burnt from the sand being so hot and they were like stay out there. Stay out
00:59:44
there. Your feet are getting burnt. We don't care kind of thing. And it was just what we went through sort of thing.
00:59:49
But you know in hindsight I'd take them back those days any day. Would you love
00:59:54
it? Yeah. I I think you know they they definitely matured you and you can see how much growth that I had during those
01:00:00
times of sevens. I'm super grateful for. So So how how big was the squad and I
01:00:05
think they we contracted 22 and and they took away 12. Um yeah. Oh. So so 10 people got the phone call saying sorry.
01:00:14
Yeah. Yeah. There was a chunk chunk of us. So there was a couple of injuries and that and then a fair chunk um yeah
01:00:20
that that got us very similar phone calls and it's heartbreaking. It is. It is. And uh and it wasn't my first
01:00:28
experience with non- selection. You know we had the uh the 15's World Cup not
01:00:33
long after that. I'd been to the 2014 one and then didn't get selected for the
01:00:36
2017 one again. I another injury that kept me out and yeah, you just kind of end up you know dealing dealing with
01:00:44
those. I think when it came to my retirement though is I didn't want to get another one of those phone calls,
01:00:50
you know, so I wanted to make sure that I called time on myself, you know, cuz I
01:00:53
I you know, I I think what annoys me the most was that a lot of my professional career, you know, I'm 33 plus, you know,
01:01:02
I played till I was 39, you know, so and I had multiple demons in my head saying,
01:01:08
"Stop playing, honey. Stop playing. Stop playing." But I, you know, I feel like I
01:01:12
was peing at 33, 34, 35, but definitely felt the decline in those last few years. And then once sort of co hit, I
01:01:20
just knew that that was one extra rugby league that was just a year too far away
01:01:24
from me. So I knew I was done. Yeah. I want to talk about that in just a second because it's like you you announced your
01:01:29
retirement like a couple of days before your last game. Yeah. Um but yeah, first
01:01:33
of all, so the the Rio stuff. So, did did you consider going over and watching the team or was that just going to be
01:01:40
too hard or I I did consider because my dad was my dad had booked flights and had this whole package. So, he was
01:01:47
coming over to support and all of that and then when I didn't make the team, he
01:01:50
was like, "Do you want to take the trip, you know, like you can go over and and
01:01:54
I'll swap the names over and stuff like that." So, I considered it, but yeah, it
01:01:57
was it was a bit of a rough time for me. I think traveling on my own. I'd never
01:02:00
I'd never traveled on my own. So, I was pretty nervous about doing that and I I
01:02:06
wasn't in a place where I could go wholeheartedly to support my team. I needed that time to sort of deal with
01:02:11
what I was going through. Um so, I chose not to go and my my dad got a small refund, but not really um on on his
01:02:18
package. Um but I I think by the time the girls uh started playing in that Olympics because you know they went over
01:02:23
quite early a month early and um you know by then I'd sort of um one I'd
01:02:29
gotten the call from the Blackburns 15's coach to come and join that team. So you
01:02:32
know I sort of had something else to look forward to but also I I suppose I dealt with it. So by the time they
01:02:37
started playing the Olympics I knew wholeheartedly I could I could uh cheer and support my sisters that were out
01:02:42
there. Yeah. Yeah. It must have been unimaginably hard though like the FOMO factor. Oh, big time. You know, like I I
01:02:49
I'll be honest after I took that phone call, I didn't want to talk to anybody,
01:02:52
you know, for two weeks. And and especially not the girls that were selected, you know, because to me, I was
01:02:56
like, well, that's that's my spot, you know, and they were my they were my good
01:03:00
friends. And as as happy as I was for them, I was pissed. I was pissed I wasn't there sort of thing. So, I knew I
01:03:06
needed to take myself away from that to, you know, be in a be in a better place where I could wholeheartedly support
01:03:11
them. Yeah. When And what happened at Rio? They won silver. They won silver. Were you secretly happy? I wasn't to be
01:03:18
honest. I was broken, you know, like when they had those the footage of them just sitting on that field and, you
01:03:25
know, tears and all. Oh, I those tears were so deep-seated in me. And that's
01:03:31
when I knew whole wholeheartedly I was broken for them. I was just like, that's
01:03:35
not fair. You know, they Yeah, that that was rough. You've come a long way because that's um that speaks of how
01:03:42
little ego you had, I think. Yeah. I I I knew that I had a lot of um you know I I' I'd had so much growth through that
01:03:49
throughout that time you know and I I was you know one of the mature leaders and I think you know I'd started to just
01:03:56
you know I I'd started just to do a lot of inner work I think which I'd blocked
01:04:01
out for a long time. Um but yeah, just that that understanding of myself and and I started to do a lot of work with
01:04:06
David Galbra and DG. Yeah, DG. He was our he's our team um team uh mental skills uh doc and he was he was great.
01:04:15
So he had helped me through a lot of that pro you know as we were working towards the Olympics. So I sort of I I
01:04:21
reached into a lot of that work that I did with him um to kind of get me through some of those those uh rough
01:04:27
times. Did did you get anything from him that you can still like implement in day-to-day life now? Uh yeah,
01:04:33
definitely. So like we he always gave me this like little uh model if you like or
01:04:39
scenario was all about jumping off a cliff cuz I think I always held myself back, you know, through fear of failure.
01:04:45
That was always my biggest thing. Fear of failure, you know. I never wanted to be a failure and I was so competitive. I
01:04:50
wanted to win everything. I was the worst sore loser. Um but sometimes that fear of losing would would hold me back.
01:04:58
So he we had this thing around jumping off the cliff and he was like look you've got to decide like once you cross
01:05:03
that white line and once you know you're getting into your red zone whereas you
01:05:08
know whether it's say I'm just absolutely at my breaking point of exhaustion or whatever that's the moment
01:05:13
that I've got to jump off the cliff. I've got to be all in. I've got to throw
01:05:16
that last pass. I've got to make that last last bit of effort that 1% left in
01:05:21
me to make that last tack or whatever that, you know, whatever that was at that moment. He just helped me to
01:05:27
recognize those moments that I was going through in my head so that I wouldn't
01:05:31
feed the other, I suppose, demons in my head that were saying just quit honey, just just stop, you know, sort of thing.
01:05:37
Cuz there I had a lot of that sort of thing. Once I was able to um I suppose implement that as a player on the field,
01:05:44
I was all in. I was all in. I also learned I suppose how to transfer that into everyday life in in terms of that
01:05:50
jumping off the cliff and not fearing failure and and it took me um it would just take me back to going through the
01:05:59
same processes you know when I'm under pressure. I mean, I get it now like as a
01:06:02
commentator for work, you know, I still get the sweats. I still get nervous and that and I'm like, right, just, you
01:06:07
know, and there's something might be happening on screen and I'm like, should
01:06:10
I say it? Should I say it? Just do it, honey. Jump off the cliff. Say it. If that's what you think, if that's your
01:06:15
opinion, it's what you're being paid for. Tell the people, tell the people at
01:06:18
home, this is how you're breaking down a game or whatever it might be, you know?
01:06:21
And it's even things as a mom, you know, when like my boys are pushing me or my
01:06:25
son's like really pushing me, I'm like, oh my god, like, you know, kind of
01:06:29
thing. And it's it's again it's that you know just jumping off a cliff. So I've I
01:06:33
think I'll carry that with me for the rest of my life and it's being able to
01:06:36
just push past push past those um the the voices in your head that kind of want to pull you back a bit or or hold
01:06:44
you down or you know make those decisions of [ __ ] it and you know. Yeah. I love that. Thanks for sharing. Yeah.
01:06:52
So, so your retirement um so you just decided one day that was that you were done cuz I feel like um and you sort of
01:06:59
alluded to this before there's two ways you go. Either you make the the decision
01:07:02
for yourself like a Richie Mccor or the decision gets made for you and you get unceremoniously dumped but you yeah you
01:07:09
you sort of decided the week off. The week of yeah I did decide the week off. So I I went into the camp feeling really
01:07:15
good and that and um you know and we'd come through co so we'd been hanging out
01:07:20
to play and we got the test match against Sam Eden Park uh not Eden Park Mount Smart there and I went into camp
01:07:26
feeling good and you know I was excited we had nine debutons you know I was part
01:07:30
of the leadership group and I knew all of this um and as that week kind of panned out you know I was I was carrying
01:07:37
a couple of injuries but I was I was okay but I there was just little things that were happening throughout that week
01:07:42
and it was like little things like you know we had all these new debutons coming these 18 19 year olds Caitlyn
01:07:46
Baha Kulo and and the like they were all coming in right and um you know they just had this energy about them and you
01:07:53
know and I and I didn't feel like I had that same energy I was like I'm kind of
01:07:58
bit tired here and and I was just starting to slow down a bit and then I remember during training just feeling
01:08:05
like I couldn't quite hit the you know hit some of the milestones or things like that that I was used to hitting and
01:08:12
I couldn't quite make the pass or I wasn't seeing the pictures that I generally see under pressure. And so
01:08:18
just little things were happening throughout that week and and I made a phone call home to my wife and I was
01:08:23
like, "Hi, you know, it's it's cool." She's like, "How's camp?" And I'm like,
01:08:25
"Oh, it's good." She's like, "Oh, you don't sound so, you know, hyped." And I
01:08:30
was like, "Yeah, I don't know. I just it's something about it. I just I feel
01:08:34
like I it's I'm, you know, coming to coming to the end kind of thing." And
01:08:40
I decided I I had a big conversation with my wife on the phone and then I sort of thought, okay, look, I think I'm
01:08:48
done, you know, kind of thing. And then I sent a text to my family and once I sent that text, then I knew, okay, now
01:08:55
you got to follow through cuz you've said this, you've got to follow through.
01:08:58
So first I spoke to the coach Ricky Henry at the time and I said to him, look, we've got jersey presentation
01:09:03
tonight and I want to let you know this is going to be my last. just, you know, I said, but I don't want to tell anyone.
01:09:09
I says, I don't want anyone to know cuz this is a big moment for these debutons.
01:09:13
I remember my debut. Um, and it's got to be it's got to be be about these young
01:09:17
players. And so, he agreed. He agreed not to tell anyone. I says, "We'll wait
01:09:21
till after the game and we'll let people know kind of thing." And I'm really glad
01:09:25
that it happened. There was also a moment during that game where I knew I was like, "Yeah, you're totally done."
01:09:32
cuz I could feel myself just mentally like I knew when I crossed that white line every moment I was out playing in a
01:09:37
black jersey I was all in and I could just almost feel myself out there floating like floating like oh this is
01:09:44
nice you know kind of thing. I didn't have that fire burning like right I'm in
01:09:48
there. I'm in there. I'm in there. I'm competing. I'm competing. I just was
01:09:50
like I'm just going to kick back a little bit. So I knew I knew I was done. But it must have been a strange feeling
01:09:56
for you like having this big secret but knowing that every time you do think it's the last every time you walk
01:10:00
through the tunnel, every time you're in a team huddle or every if if there's a
01:10:04
hacker or an anthem or whatever, just knowing it's the it's you know it's the
01:10:08
last but no one else does. Yeah, that was so and and I kept those m obviously the all those moments to myself. So
01:10:14
yeah, that ride in on the the van ride in, we were on, you know, minivans and coming out and Simon Manoring was part
01:10:20
of our coaching crew and he was driving. I was sitting in the front and I just remember thinking it's my last ride into
01:10:24
the stadium team van, you know. So I was going through all of those um emotions and that and it was my last game prep,
01:10:32
my last game meal, all of those kind of things kind of things. So that was I I really enjoyed that. I and I I think I
01:10:38
really took the time to be consciously aware what was going on. Um, and at the time it was a 25 year Kiwi Ferns
01:10:44
celebration. So they had um all the p past uh Kiwi Ferns make a tunnel as we ran out and I thought this is definitely
01:10:53
this is special you know cuz I'd played with a lot a big chunk of those women
01:10:57
that had really paved the way. So I just thought oh man I've I've picked the best
01:11:01
moment cuz I wasn't aware that that was going to happen either and they didn't
01:11:04
know I was retiring. Um so that was so cool. Yeah I was I was so wrapped that I chose that moment. And then what was it
01:11:11
like after? Was it like a morg afterwards? Like did you really bring the party down with the news? Yeah.
01:11:16
Well, so um so then they literally announced it the moment like the final whistle went and I got interviewed
01:11:23
straight away. My family cuz I told my family they did a hucker in the stadium. That was awesome. And my team was
01:11:29
wondering what the hell was going on cuz the players still didn't know. And so we
01:11:33
went into the change rooms afterwards and the CEO had come in, Greg Greg Peters at the time and he's like, "Oh, I
01:11:39
just want to acknowledge honey for, you know, announcing her retirement." The
01:11:43
players were like, "You know what?" And then it was like a morg. It was like
01:11:46
tears and I was like, and they got up and did a huck and I was like, "Don't do
01:11:49
that cuz I don't want to cry." And it was, you know, it was huge. And then I
01:11:53
feel like that was that moment that sunk in for me like, "Oh crap, this is actually really happening." But I didn't
01:11:59
have any regrets. It was just like, "Oh, far out." Yeah. So it was cool. Yeah.
01:12:04
You mentioned your wife and the role she had in these discussions. Had your mom passed by by this stage? Yeah, she had.
01:12:12
Yeah. And I think a chunk of, you know, a chunk of me had, you know, kind of I think after her passing and that whole
01:12:19
journey and not being able to play for the Warriors, you know, so I I feel like, you know, things were slipping
01:12:23
from me and and that fire, you know, I always talked about the fire in my belly. I felt like it was just slowly
01:12:28
dimming and that was a significant part of it, too. Yeah. Um, cancer uh impacts so many New Zealanders. I think the
01:12:34
stats are like one in three New Zealanders are impacted by cancer. But [ __ ] you've had it rough, haven't you?
01:12:39
Yeah, sure have. Yeah. So, your wife Relle, she's um she was diagnosed in December 2020. Yeah. 3 years ago. Yeah.
01:12:46
Yeah. With and and the prognosis was not not good. She was given she was actually
01:12:51
given six months in that. So, she was diagnosed with quite a rare cancer colangio carcinoma which is cancer of
01:12:57
the bile duct. Um and she had significant metastases, you know, throughout uh throughout her. So she was
01:13:04
given six months without treatment and 12 months with treatment. And we're now
01:13:08
coming up three years and she's still uh you know, chugging along pretty well at
01:13:12
the moment. Um but still obviously a stage 4 uh patient and um on palative chemotherapy. So, uh, yeah, we just
01:13:22
continue to, that's probably been our biggest, uh, challenge the last three years and and dealing with that and the
01:13:28
roller coaster and up and downs that come with, you know, stage 4, uh, cancer diagnosis. What What does it look like
01:13:35
from a day-to-day perspective living with stage four cancer? Yeah. Um, at the moment, it's uh, we we're in our scan
01:13:43
anxiety phase. So that means uh she's got a scan tomorrow uh PET scan cuz she's hasn't um she's actually been off
01:13:50
treatment for four or five months now which we we chase um something called a stable. Stable is the best we know that
01:13:58
we're going to get with her. And so we got stable at the beginning of this year
01:14:01
and we were really really stoked with that. Um and yeah, she's recently just
01:14:06
had some routine bloods which have shown her tumor markers have shot up and I think this uh time round it's highly
01:14:13
likely she'll return uh back onto pallet of chemo again very soon. Um and this
01:14:18
will now be the fifth I think full cycle and a cycle kind of means uh once a week
01:14:26
um going in for six hours of infusions of chemotherapy. Um, and we're probably
01:14:32
looking at a bit in the next 6 months of her being back on treatment again. So, it's it's rough. Um, and it gets harder,
01:14:40
I think, each round, uh, for her. And, um, you know, from a from a physical, emotional, mentally as well. But, um,
01:14:48
yeah, this this time round is is a I think, you know, we we're prepared for it because we've been here four times
01:14:55
before. Um, but it doesn't make it any easier. How do you stay so strong? uh uh you know I have to you know I have
01:15:04
to be the stronger one into us because I'm like well physically this is happening to her so I've got to be the
01:15:10
one to stay mentally and emotionally strong um and and focused on the end goal and that's just to you know survive
01:15:17
and keep surviving and keep fighting um you know like we we didn't have um a good obviously a
01:15:25
good uh long journey when it was my mom's uh cancer diagnosis In fact, we got nine weeks from day of diagnosis
01:15:33
through to when she passed. And so that always played in the back of my mind that we were going to make sure that we
01:15:38
put up a really good fight this time around. Um, it was only a year later, I suppose, when Rafelle got diagnosed. So,
01:15:44
um, yeah, I took it upon myself to learn anything and everything that I could about this cancer, all cancers,
01:15:51
everything. And I, you know, I'm a real advocate for it because I just I hate
01:15:57
it. If there's one thing I hate in the world, I hate cancer. Um it's affected
01:16:00
too many people in my life and um yeah, I just I'll do anything and everything
01:16:05
to keep my my wife around for as long as possible. Yeah. Actually, there's um a
01:16:10
bit in the book. This is um this this broke my broke my [ __ ] heart, actually. So, page
01:16:17
195. You think you love someone as much as as it's humanly possible. But as I
01:16:22
watch my wife go through this, I keep falling in love with her deeper and stronger. I'm amazed by her fight, her
01:16:28
resilience, her humor. In the toughest times, she keeps me strong and I keep her strong. Then there are days uh where
01:16:35
we lean on each other. As we celebrate each milestone, I still can't shake one
01:16:40
dread. Not waking waking up next to her is my biggest fear. Yep. Yeah. I think it's a fear that kind of, you
01:16:52
know, you live with and um that I wake up with every day, you know, and I'm lucky enough that I do wake up every day
01:16:59
uh next to her and looking and think there's another day, here's another day.
01:17:02
And that's kind of where I allow only allow my mind to think we get another day, we get another day. Um and it's
01:17:08
really rough waking up on the days where she's where she's crook or when we're
01:17:12
back in the hospital again and something else has gone wrong. Um and we've had
01:17:16
plenty of those moments. Um, but it just makes me so much more grateful for the good mornings that we get to wake up.
01:17:22
Um, and and she's she's going to have a good day. I mean, she's gone back home
01:17:26
today to set up a Easter egg hunt for our granddaughter. So, you know, it's it's all of those like little small ones
01:17:31
that we choose to focus on because, you know, I know that, you know, the the stats um they don't speak, you know,
01:17:39
very well. And when when you know, they tell you don't Google it from get. So,
01:17:44
they say, "Right, you got stage four cancer. It's rare. Don't Google it. What
01:17:48
do you do? You walk straight out of the room. You Google it. And um the first thing that came up for us for stage four
01:17:53
colangia carinoma is 5% of people make it past five years. We're coming up three. And I remember very early on we
01:18:00
made the decision she's going to be part of that 5% that makes 5 years and we're
01:18:04
coming up three years and so we're like we're good, you know, we're getting
01:18:07
there. We're we're we're over halfway. And we celebrate every single milestone
01:18:11
that we we're able to achieve. So yeah. Do you um because in your book you talk
01:18:17
about not wanting to cry in front of your mom and in her brief battle with cancer. Do you do you allow yourself to
01:18:23
cry in front of Relle? Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Now like I just you can't hold it back
01:18:28
because we've we've been through such a a [ __ ] journey with this you know and
01:18:34
you know even just as raw as you know this morning she gets the phone call when we're sitting in the hotel lobby to
01:18:40
say look your PET scans tomorrow and we know we know what comes. It's because
01:18:44
we've been through it. So, you know, just hearing that, oh, okay, it's a
01:18:47
reality of we know we've got bad bloods. We know now it's a PET scan. We know
01:18:50
we're back in the oncologist end of this week or or early next week and we know
01:18:55
what's to come sort of thing. And straight away as soon as she said, "Oh,
01:18:58
yeah, this is Relle. Oh, yeah. I'll come for the scan." You know, and straight
01:19:01
away your eyes just swinging strong for each other, too, but allowing us to grieve those moments
01:19:12
because you have to grieve it. You start grieving from the moment you hear the cancer diagnosis without a doubt, you
01:19:18
know, but you don't stay there. That's my thing is you can't stay there because
01:19:21
if you stay there, then you lose hope. And we've hope is the only thing that's
01:19:25
got us to the three years, you know, and hope will get us past the five years and
01:19:30
and beyond. You know, we we always make um you know, we always every year or actually every mater we we set our goals
01:19:38
and we always say, "Okay, what's our 20 year goal? it, you know, and we don't
01:19:41
just say it just to say it. We say it because that's what we believe, you know, but we are very realistic in the
01:19:47
fact that, you know, we've always had this 5-year goal from day of diagnosis.
01:19:52
Why Why was it important for you not to cry in front of your mom when she was unwell? I don't know. No, I think it
01:19:58
would have broken her heart to see you upset or Yeah, because my mom was um so strong in herself and I think for when
01:20:07
it when it came to mom, I um I took on the the nursing role kind of thing and I was so focused on that
01:20:17
that I I I think deep down I believed she was going to get better and I hadn't
01:20:25
um accepted the fact that she wasn't going to get better right right to the days you know where she's like l like
01:20:30
pretty much in her last days of life in a coma I still had that small amount of hope that she would come back to us um
01:20:38
and so I didn't allow myself to cry because that would be me accepting the fact that she was was going to die and I
01:20:47
didn't allow that I didn't allow that till almost the night before my mom
01:20:51
passed away when I finally said in my mom's ear as she lay you know in a in a
01:20:56
coma date. You can go now, Mom. And those are probably the hardest words. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, but uh
01:21:09
can you um Yeah, she she must have been so proud of you because um uh yeah, you you you were just you were there for
01:21:16
her. Like you really you really stepped up, right? Um I've se seen clips online
01:21:20
of you training at the hospital like running up and down the stairs and just sleeping on the floor there. like you
01:21:25
you really you really fronted up in a big way and um she must have been so proud. Can you can you remember your
01:21:31
your last conversation with her when she was lucid? Yeah, that is probably what disappoints me the most is cuz like when
01:21:38
you're caring for someone that's so sick and you're entrusted with giving the
01:21:42
medication, right? So, I'm I'm giving her all of her, you know, all her medication, the morphine, the pain
01:21:48
medication, the anti-anxiety medication, pretty much the medication that's keeping her at peace, but also a lot of
01:21:55
it was, you know, allowing her to rest so that her body could go through the dying process. Um, and I and I didn't
01:22:02
understand that at the time. And I had massive cira fatigue, you know, and I was tired and I was getting frustrated
01:22:10
with mom cuz she was so act she was um so much out of character, you know. She was getting frustrated. She was worn
01:22:17
down. She was tired. She was in pain and she was suffering, you know, and I didn't want to think that she was
01:22:22
suffering cuz I'm like, well, I'm your nurse. I'm not a nurse, but you know, I
01:22:27
am here to help you. Um I don't think what I registered was actually what I was there to do was to help her to die.
01:22:35
I still had held on to the hope that um I was going to make her better. Um and so it was actually I think you go
01:22:43
through a whole lot of spiritual distress and that's where that's where I
01:22:46
was at and that's where mom was at. And so my last conversation with mom was mom
01:22:50
was really pissed off with me because she was she wanted to go and I didn't want her to go. Um, and I was frustrated
01:22:58
with her. You know, we were we weren't sleeping. You know, she was having really rough nights and things like
01:23:03
that. And we were all at the family homestead. There was, you know, 34 30 of us all all sort of there for mom during
01:23:11
those last days of life. And um, it was actually my papa that said to me, you have to let her go. You know, she's
01:23:19
hanging. She's holding on because you won't let her go. And so that's when I
01:23:24
had to say those words was me actually cuz I'd say, "Oh, I've let her go." You
01:23:28
know, I know I know what's happening. I But I hadn't actually said those words
01:23:32
out loud because I think deep down I hadn't I knew I hadn't convinced myself
01:23:37
that I was actually letting her go. So yeah, it's um it's a it's an unreal
01:23:43
journey, you know, when you get to care for someone in their last days of life. I think it was a huge privilege, you
01:23:48
know, and I don't regret a moment of those days that um you know that I got um for mom. I think it's it's one of the
01:23:55
things that I'm most proud of how I cared for mom. Yeah. Yeah. You should be
01:23:59
and I'm sure she was as well cuz you really stood up. Eh yeah. Um even even like another little thing like bringing
01:24:06
your wedding to Relle Ford so you guys could get married in the chapel at Wat Hospital just so your mom could be
01:24:11
present cuz you weren't sure. Um you when do you miss her most? Um I think I miss her most
01:24:20
uh obviously on her anniversary. Um I miss her most when we go back to family things. So mom's mom's one of 11
01:24:27
siblings and I miss her most when I'm around my family because um up until a
01:24:34
few months ago she was the only sibling that had passed. Um her brother not long
01:24:38
passed another brother not long passed a few months ago. But I think when I go around her sisters because they're so
01:24:44
much like her and they remind me so much of mom. Um and then it's also those
01:24:49
moments where um people look back at me and they go I thought you were your mother just then. And I'm like oh. And
01:24:55
I've I've that really warms my heart to to for people to think, oh either I look
01:25:00
like my mom or I sound like my mom. I'm like oh cool. You know like I don't
01:25:04
think as a kid I ever aspired to be like my mom. But now when I hear people cuz mom had such a beautiful heart and she
01:25:11
was so caring. I love it when people say that. Um but yeah, definitely when I'm
01:25:15
around family, I I miss mom the most. And when I see, you know, our kids, our my
01:25:22
grandkids and you know, my ne nephews and nieces, they don't get to experience. Mom's just great great
01:25:28
grandmother. I mean, had her faults as a mom, but the best grandmother ever. So,
01:25:32
yeah, I I miss her the most times. that um the 16-year-old town bully like [ __ ]
01:25:39
she would have been so proud of the woman the woman that you've grown up to be like what the hell like you've really
01:25:45
you've really come good yeah for sure um you know are you proud of yourself I am
01:25:52
yeah I am I know you know I I know I'm a good person deep down and you know I
01:25:57
think it took a while to dig through all the bad [ __ ] um to get to where I am today but I know like I've got a good
01:26:03
heart and I see so much of my mom and my dad reflected in in how I've been and I
01:26:08
give so much credit back to my family, you know, like they've always been my
01:26:12
absolute foundation and everything. I'm so grateful that I had great grandparents um you know on both sides.
01:26:19
Um I've only got one one nan left. She's 95 and she's still chugging along and
01:26:24
she tells me my longevity is due to her and you know she's she's proofs in the
01:26:27
pudding. which is 9 to5 and you know still going good and um yeah I just I credit everything back to my family and
01:26:35
my upbringing cuz although it had its rough parts you know there was still those real um deep set I think um you
01:26:43
know things that come through um as part of our family traits and that's in and
01:26:49
around humility. I mean, my mother, my grandmother was actually Jehovah Witness and and um you know that we kind of grew
01:26:55
up with that religion. Um didn't necessarily follow it, but in the in the times that I lived with my grandparents,
01:27:02
I had to go to church, you know, it was part of it. And I think that gave me some grounding, too. Um but my parents
01:27:07
were very hardworking. My parents were very hardworking. They were very humble. Um and so I just I'm grateful that those
01:27:14
traits come through. Yeah. Yeah. I think you have to show some grace. like they did the best they could with the
01:27:20
resources they had at this at the time. My god. Um, we've got there's another
01:27:25
studio booking, so we're going to have to get out of here soon. We haven't
01:27:28
talked about the New Zealand Order of Merit. We haven't talked about your boxing. Um, we haven't talked about God,
01:27:35
the commentary stuff at all. Yeah. Um, [ __ ] there's so much um so many strands
01:27:41
to your story, right? Yeah. I I always um I I always reflect my life as a bit of a roller coaster, you know, like I've
01:27:49
had tons of bad [ __ ] you know, happen, but I've also had so much cool stuff as
01:27:53
well. And I I always think um my life just there's always something different
01:27:59
around the corner. And I'm glad like especially, you know, I feel like, you know, as I've finished up playing as an
01:28:06
athlete that I've taken opportunities, you know, like I had no vision whatsoever that I was going to be
01:28:11
working for Sky Sport and doing this commentary and the broadcasting side of things and then, you know, the
01:28:17
opportunity um presented itself and I think, you know, the 20-year-old honey would have been no straight away. But,
01:28:24
you know, I think the 30-year-old honey is like give it a crack. Just give it a crack. And that's kind of how what I've
01:28:29
lived by is like just give it a crack, see where it takes you. And so I just try to live my life like that now.
01:28:34
That's a funny story all on its own. Turning up to the sky boardroom and your
01:28:38
hoodie and track and being handed an envelope and Exactly. Oh yeah. The the trolling has the trolling sort of died
01:28:45
down like you talk about this in in the book and there's um there's a couple of
01:28:49
messages that you bring up including token brown face, token female. They've
01:28:53
ticked three boxes. the brown face box, the girl box, and the rainbow box. Shot sky. And that's really offensive and
01:29:00
aggressive stuff, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. It took a little while for me to um to
01:29:06
uh I suppose learn to cope with that kind of stuff. And and that's what happens, right? You put yourself out
01:29:11
there and um and you got to expect that people are going to have their opinions.
01:29:16
That's what I'm paid to do is give my opinion and so people are going to have
01:29:19
their opinions. And it was vice versa with the book. you know, is obviously putting myself out there again. Um, and
01:29:26
you know, and you're going to get uh feedback and you got to just be open to
01:29:29
it. But I think what I've learned now is just to take on, you know, what's
01:29:34
actually useful for me, you know, and sometimes I read those comments and I thought, far out, you know, that is that
01:29:39
is actually true, you know, like I got to lift my game. I got to stop repeating myself or I've got to stop bandwagoning
01:29:44
or I've got to stop saying absolutely a million times in in one take kind of
01:29:48
thing, you know, all of those kind of things. So I I I know that I take, you know, um
01:29:55
constructive criticism really well because I want to always be better. So, but you know, the [ __ ] where you're just
01:30:00
getting pumped for, you know, whatever. I'm just like I' I've leared to just be
01:30:05
like, "Oh, I can't do anything with that. I can't change the way I look. If
01:30:08
you don't like my top that I'm wearing or you don't like how my hair's done or
01:30:12
whatever, I can't change that." Yeah, exactly. Pretty much my words, not
01:30:16
yours. Um and last one, where do you goals for the future? like where do you see yourself at 50? Well, I'm I'm
01:30:22
studying this year. So, I'm doing the full-time uh a full immersion tel mi at
01:30:28
Wakato University. So, I just got through my first term. when I'm on school holidays and and I it it already
01:30:35
feels like, you know, I've done my first term and it already feels like um it's
01:30:40
just changing my whole perspective on the world, you know, having really diving deep into my uh mi tonga into um
01:30:49
just having um just being real vulnerable to uh learning relearning my language, you know, and um and putting
01:30:58
myself out there. Um, and I'm excited for it and I I haven't thought too far
01:31:04
past that because it's been something that I've been wanting to do for, you
01:31:08
know, two, three years now. And this is what I've solely committed to for this
01:31:11
year. It's my number one priority is to um is to start my learning journey, you
01:31:16
know, and um and see where it takes me from there. How good. So you and your dogs can have full conversations. Yeah,
01:31:22
for sure. Um and hopefully many many many many more um happy years with Relle. Oh, 100%. Yeah, honey smiler.
01:31:31
This has been awesome. We're gonna have to do a part two some other time. Yeah,
01:31:34
for sure, Dom. Um, this has been really, really good. How's it been for you? Oh,
01:31:38
I love it. Lovely. Yeah, really enjoyed it. You know, it's so cool to sit and
01:31:42
chat with you. Um, such a fan of the conversation that that you've had with so many and I was just I felt really
01:31:49
privileged to be able to come here today. Yeah. Do you enjoy reflecting? Yeah, I do. Yeah. It makes me um think,
01:31:54
"Oh, yeah. This is what you've done some shit." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You have.
01:31:58
You really have. Hey, this has been amazing. Thank you so much. Cheers. Thanks.