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okay Runners only with dime Harley Runners only with dom Harvey and one of my favorite All Blacks of all time and
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definitely without a doubt my favorite mortgage broker of all time Mills miliano hello g'day thank you hey mate
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thank you so much for coming over thanks for coming on the podcast um I I need to start by preempting
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something I did um you were supposed to come on a couple of weeks ago and then there was a last minute family emergency
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um and you had to postpone somewhere in between then and now I've lost my notes
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and I only realized like about an hour ago so I'm going in nude no notes you
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thought I wasn't going to come back yeah you were like no he's just using one of
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those excuses I'll check these out there's no way he's coming back no I did
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a lot of research but I'm not sure where it's going so I've got some of it
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committed to memory but um I I'm I actually feel okay with that because I know you're a good conversationalist and
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it's great to have you here um first of all I want to say how this how this came about
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um you you were not even on my on my radar and I was driving along I think I had News Talk ZB playing and uh an ad
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came on voiced by you as a mortgage broker and I thought um Melissa be a great guest so I Googled you and there
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you were how did you get into being a mortgage broker crazy yep um I mean when I sort of initially came back from from
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finishing up playing rugby wasn't the ideal plan well it wasn't really the
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plan I wanted just to come back and um sort of phase out of the whole sort of rugby scene and quietly ago about
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owning my own business and Chiropractic and that's what I came back to stated in
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my first year at aut in 2017 um just my prereqs um but sort of fast forward to different
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things kind of happened um and I've always had an interest in um in purchasing houses I had a portfolio when
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I was playing rugby don't know how I got on there but I managed to buy my first
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house at the age of 20. um and then sort of along the way sort of built built that throughout my career and then sort
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of helped a number of my sort of peers into it um came back had did a couple of shows was
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for Sky Scotty Stevenson sort of asked me to come on and I was like nah that's
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media is not really we wanted to get to um he sort of initiated that conversation while I was still playing
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at the Chiefs and other certain there's no way I want to get into that and um
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but I did it as a sort of a favor went on for three shows for Skye um and it just never stopped so fast
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forward um you know actually was during that time um my my good mate from school Vinnie
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mcliffe is my business partner he wanted to leave the banking space so he's been
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in banking 20 odd years managed a few Banks csb benzed and he said to me look um would you be keen on
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doing it and I was like well yeah man we feel ready because obviously you have to
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take the leap and um you know we have to get cracking into it once you give once you give um your
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origination and you're obviously Beyond gardening level we did it he handed in
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his notice and they kept him off for another six weeks which was crazy um and this is where I've got to today
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and so that that ad that uh you've you heard it's been a real big part because
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it's not something that I've been really comfortable about as sort of the public
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face that's the marketing side of it you know but um and Joe who's my my wife she's been
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pushing along with Vinnie um that we've got to Branch out a bit more but um we've had so much success you know I
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suppose um yeah I'm I'm probably a little bit comfortable in terms of sort of what
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we're what we're doing and how that's come about and that's probably how I've
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ended up here mate if it wasn't for that you probably wouldn't have reached out
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it was bigger on the radar so it's a good thing well I I appreciate it because it's you're such an interesting
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guy and you know the one of um we talked just before the podcast started one of only I think nine or ten people that
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have played like 100 all black tests yeah um so it's good to get you get your
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story at the end I'm pleased that you're thriving in life yeah it's really cool
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where did where did the money smarts come from when did you get your first professional
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rugby contract like 17 18. yeah I was so I I was 18 I think I played New Zealand
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Sevens at 19. I actually played for Samoa before that and the sevens um part but I played New Zealand Sevens
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um had no idea about money um my back well I've got six brothers and one sister
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um my parents broke up at an early age um you know while I was down this I never knew anything about money we lived
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in social housing rented majority of Our Lives um once I got my first real contract I
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kind of just spent it on anything and everything you remember how much it was I can't actually remember um I think it
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was uh for sevens it was like every tournament that you went on you got like two thousand dollars
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uh and then from there on um it was a thousand dollars if you missed the tournament but my first sort
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of Academy contract was two thousand dollars so I was at school I came up from invercargill obviously and did my
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last year of school at Charleston and um the following year Auckland rugby will offered me an academy contract with two
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thousand dollars and at the same time uh South and Rugby Union offered me a ten thousand dollar contract and I thought
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man it's awesome I'm playing PC the following year I'm still at school and
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ten thousand dollars is massive it's kind of like winning the lotto and yeah
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you know but yeah in the scheme of things it wasn't wasn't that much money
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at all I mean I would have blown some of my conscious I probably would have blown
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that in two weeks you know and give them the party I suppose when you're that age
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you think all you can think is like I can get a car I can get a car or I can get whatever yep to team buy Mama house
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for ten thousand dollars I wouldn't have been about afford anything really so
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um the 18 18 19 ish I had a relatively sort of um Semi-Pro uh contract and then it's just funny looking back now because
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I feel so old because some of that stuff I can't even remember it's just how old
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are you now I'm Matt I'll be 43 next in July so I'm probably good yeah trying to
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it's always harder these days but um it's crazy looking back at how fast sort
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of things um evolved and then playing professional rugby I often just um just wonder how I ended up doing it
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because it was just kind of what do you mean oh I think when you're when you're kind
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of in it and things happen in the pressures of the world and the pressures of playing rugby
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um you don't realize how fast time flies until you get to the the end of your
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sort of the end of your career but the end of your or the life cycle here in New
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Zealand right you kind of think far out um I'm not even that old I'm you know 30
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almost 30 years old and I'm kind of like man there's still a whole life time
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ahead and that's probably when I started thinking about uh what life after I've been the big
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priority what was it a big thing for me since that priority was that I didn't
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really want to be living in the whole bubble anymore like I had enough of that I had enough of
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you know been walking down the show I was happy to be able to be anonymous yeah and just do my own thing and just
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sort of and that's probably part of the reason why I wasn't big on advertising
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and marketing because you know I felt that you know I could you know um easy just sort of do my own thing and be and
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be happy with that as long as I knew what I was kind of kind of getting up to and doing
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wow so it's a nose sort of no sort of Desire or ego to be in the public eye really no which is crazy now it
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it's a remarkable career and everyone loves you um so I mean it would you know it would
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be understandable and make sense to like cash in on that great name that you've
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built yeah I just it's not your thing was it was never it wasn't my thing I
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think I didn't know I mean we just exhausted from it being your thing for so many years I didn't really want to be
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it wasn't a thing where I thought man I still want that I still want that identity yeah having people sort of know
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who I was I've seen that guy somewhere was it a was it an ad or was it a TV show no I
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was happy with that you know rather than sort of um like you have been with with the
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rugby days where everything's about rugby and um and what you sort of what you sort of done on on the field and
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more um particular sort of off the field too so but it's just um I love it I I love
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what I'm doing now um you know I I loving the work that I do I'm loving being in um a broadcaster
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if that's what you want to want to call it um really enjoying that side of um that side of life and sort of the
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opportunities that have I suppose come from the stuff that I didn't really want
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which is um which has been fantastic yeah it's kind of cool because so you you had a definite plan of what you
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wanted to do and then this other stuff just sort of popped up and uh you you were able to Pivot which I think is
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really cool I think it's important to have a plan rather than just like you know Bob along hoping someone is going
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to come up but it's yeah it's like everything's worked out good for you
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yeah 100 I think um then often guys fall into that trip yeah you know they they I mean the only young he might
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mentioned 30 31 and before you know it you're you're out in the big world and
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it is the it is actually the big world you kind of like you know scrambling to trying to you know the last thing you
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want to be doing scrambling trying to find your feet and understand who you are and what what you want to do
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um hence the reason I knew you know it wasn't I wasn't going to be on the same
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pay picket but I'd put some aside to know that okay well here's the next four
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what the next four years may look like um but still had that sort of vulnerability to set one four years time
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that their business might not be what it is yeah um because in some ways it's I know it
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sounds weird but I still have that in me that that whole um feeling of vulnerability
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and being like man it's almost like a goal I've got to get to there got to get
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oh no we're not quite get in there it's the same thing with business not meeting
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your targets or um staff doing what we you're asking them to do or um things like so a lot of
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the rugby rugby skills that I've learned is um has been is transitioned into the
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this this real you know the real life in the real world and what that sort of looks like and it's been it's been
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amazing in fact I I I'd say I've learned a lot from rugby that people in in the
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business since probably haven't quite learned yet um which I mean I'm really grateful
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about can I just say like I'm just I'm blown away like we're 10 minutes into
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this chat like um I I always remember you through your playing career when I'd come to like
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your press conferences and things at the Heritage Hotel or you'd come and come to
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our radio show like you were you were always like articulate and well spoken but you were kind of shy yeah um now
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you're so chatty is that just through majority definitely I've made time I've matured
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so much from the guy that um was pretty reserved and just answered the you know the the questions
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sort of um I suppose cliches or cliches and you kind of think far if I had my time I'd
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love to do that all over again you know being where I am now because you often get caught in the fact that
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you are in such a bubble being you know an all black and you don't want to say
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the wrong things because it might get taken out of contents which it does but um I think
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being exposed to that now I'd be exposed to public speaking and being exposed to
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being on TV um it's definitely helped your confidence it's not um it's crazy because
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um you don't learn that stuff it's not something you can go man I'm gonna well
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you can't get a broadcast casting school but I've had to learn along the way and
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that's really built my confidence and also understanding okay well I'm I've got to be good at the
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stuff that I'm providing if that's Financial advice you know when you're
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qualified uh financial advisor you've got to be comfortable that you know and
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understand that same with Rigby but I understand what I'm doing with the team
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stuff that I'm doing I'm not going to be able to um do my part for the team or my part
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for my clients if I'm sort of not doing my homework or not doing my analysis as
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they would call it but uh it's definitely um I'm a lot more chattier than than I
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used to yeah and it's really cool yeah it's cool I like it I like it good for
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you yeah um let's go right back to the beginning so where were you born so I
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was born yeah and you moved to why the [ __ ] did you move to Southland it's
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crazy I know everyone always asks me that and like to be honest when sometimes we know I speak when I first
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came up they were like man some of them obviously I've got a lot of winter Charleston boys and a lot of Polynesians
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out there they used to think I spoke funny um it wasn't until I realized later what
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they are sort of talking to even people now saying you know I'm trying to speak
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like a European but it's absolutely the way I'm being brought up um my parents came over on a ballot uh
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when I was three years old there was only myself my two other siblings at the time
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um and obviously you've got to get sponsored and then you know work was was needed you needed um you know occupation
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mum's family were down in the cargo their own forestry freezing Works was massive obviously the
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oysters so that was where they ended we ended up and a bit of support around obviously mother's family being down
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there and yeah they never left I mean mum's mum's still down there my majority
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of my siblings love it down there we go down there all the time because um my kids are similar ages to my
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brothers kids so it's a wonderful place but it also has its challenges and that
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was part of the reason why I ended up leaving what challenges like the club are you
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doing climate wise or well yeah it was but um crossing the road because the roads are so wide aren't they we only
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just came back on the weekend um on Friday and um Raji who's works for us he's like man
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these roses are so awake you put two motorways on there yeah um but I I think I just got too big for
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my own shoes I think um you know I was obviously um you know pretty good at rugby I came
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through the grades and then when my parents split out mum was a solo mother um probably didn't get a real big handle
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on I suppose we've held you in the broker nine um and then I suppose just scared of parties and sneaking out and
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getting myself into trouble I ended up um um fighting a lot I don't know one
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because I'm not a fighter at all I'm the guy in the back that sort of waits for
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everyone else what was it was it just like um like like the the booze or was it or was it just like um like Teenage
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rage yeah I think just just your teenage stuff going out and partying first 15 parties and then ended up ending up at
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McDonald's at the end of the night and you know and then just stuff starting
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and then giving him amongst it so I got um I went to court for assault and got discharged without conviction
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um did you like when you were still at school I was still at school so I was in sixth form
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um and that was probably the big uh turning point for me because I went from there I
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was in sixth form I always remember being picked up from um an audio because I was I was actually I
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was going to court and the police turned up um at home took me in obviously after
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the weekend and my man had no idea so I still remember this day having to explain to it was kind of happening
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going to court um getting community service for it which was but it was an eye-opener I
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made I made the South and sevens the men's Squad at that time um and then basically you know
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I wouldn't say I got myself myself together I still had that sort of pardon me because I was so young and yeah you
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know getting to that age and your mother not being able to sort of really control
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the sort of teenage boys um and then it wasn't until I made I made a New Zealand New Zealand touch
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team and I came up in January uh in 1998 and um my brother had come out the year before
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to go to custom boys he really loved it um and he thought I should come up to get away from things and I decided I was
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going to oh yeah there's whale there's trouble in Auckland yeah weightless I
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know he's waiting his way bigger boys up here too mate so I wouldn't have ever
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been that confident um and and um came up the family friend that I stayed with met the Solomons
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um I plan on actually coming up in January then going back home and then pleading to my mother not to let me go
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yeah um but he said you're not going home and it was just kind of like holy [ __ ] I was
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just I probably cried in my room um every every day before school because I was just going to the school
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I didn't know about it in fact before school even started I had to finish off
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my community service hours at Council which is where I met my business partner I mean obviously just mates with uh with
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my my big brother but I was cleaning windows taking the rubbish um hope helping you know mow the first
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15 um field number one pitch but I was I was really scared I didn't know what I
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was um what I was getting my what I was getting into I'd sort of lift the Comforts of being with my mates in there
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and that's where everything else flemed into it and it's the reason why that ten
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thousand dollars at South and offered me at the end of that year was so important because I was thinking
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man I hated it up here so hated it I wanted to go home I've got ten thousand
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dollars now that I've been offered Auckland only offered me two thousand I was like man it doesn't you know it's an
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obvious choice of where to go um but again I had to have hard conversations again with my mum and also
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my brother about where I'd end up and I chose Auckland or with a push from them and um
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I never looked back it was just crazy and it's kind of been there um in my whole kind of
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um I suppose career I've always sort of fallen off the wagon a little bit or I'm
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gonna say wagon falling off the path jump myself back on falling off again head face adversity
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um been real strong about that um and then also sort of come back and just so whilst it's sort of falling into
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place there's been a lot of um hard stuff that's happening along the way which is I suppose made me who I am
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today yeah yeah you have been through some stuff um yeah I mean we can get into this later on as much or as little
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as you want to but um yes so so um so you're in Auckland you got the two thousand dollars then when
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do you like because I mean you go to school like kelston there's a there's a lot of good
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rugby players here right amen so we were you just like naturally good we bigger than most no you went bigger than most
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it wasn't big at all you know I still remember my first game and I was thinking
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some of these guys have got beards and you're thinking uh there's no what about
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me I know man I'm like far out man I how am I going to survive this I was I was
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fortunate enough I had a bit of speed so I think that really helped I was on the
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wing um so I got myself used to we had a dominant team like our team was so good
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um and then I think all but two guys from our team became professional rugby players
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um who were some of your teammates um um who else was there that would uh [ __ ] it's a stack team there's a lot of
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this yeah there was a lot man by the top of my head now um but still guys that I
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still get on to I mean they were they played professional rugby in some way um you know whether it's an NPC or
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overseas as well so um yeah we had a really talented team and I kind of just fell into that and
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just found my found my groove really made New Zealand schools um and being under 19s and 21s and sort
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of came through and those were the teams that I wasn't really making from South
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Island because I suppose I wasn't really exposed to the big boys would come up
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and would play them you were like these guys are big and that's probably half the reason why you lost yeah you
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lost before you even got on to the picture oh like the mental battle just intimidation that's it yeah man there's
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no one want to tackle these guys so um yeah that was that was the majority of the the battle really whereas things
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that now they're just they're so similar now which is helps a lot of guys yeah I
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mean when did you first make the All Blacks who was your coach back then was it um it was uh Mitch Mitchell uh John
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Mitchell in uh Robbie Dean's did you no no so even like this is everyone thinks that I didn't I played against
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him um and I'll most often get tagged on the guy that sort of took over from Kelly
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but I wasn't I man I pure luck um it was Leon McDonald really and he became injured in fact I always wondered
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I sort of slid across and need him in the head and got him concussed um and the and one of the I think it
00:20:43
might have been the final of the or one of the games during the Super 2003 Super Rugby championship and then
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obviously they tried Dougie there the first game that we lost against England and then I've got my shot in
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um I just I went I played 31 in a row 31 games in a row and it was kind of like Father this is crazy so I kind of got my
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opportunity off there but often you take the quite a bit that sort of took uh Kelly's spot when the natural Factor was
00:21:13
not me at all yeah wow so yeah so John Mitchell um so he's your first coach and
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then it was an early in your all black career I'd forgotten all about this and
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I think most people would have so we we don't even have to go there if you want
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but you got in some trouble early on like there was um you're gonna fight somewhere and then like public urination
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so this is before social media yeah I'm guessing it was like Myspace or bibo
00:21:35
yeah yeah but no sort of camera phones so how did that happen was it a big deal at the time again I'd forgotten all
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about it man it's crazy eh because again when I mentioned the fact that there's
00:21:47
been some challenges along the way but let's just you know I look back at an
00:21:50
incident in you know well you know discharged with that conviction that's still party life from invercargill where
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you sort of you know pitch in the year and had 10 or 20 bucks each and go buy and kick
00:22:02
and just get absolutely mother to store kind of in me even though I didn't have
00:22:05
10 or 20 bucks um you know I'd often just like try and scrounge off my mates yeah
00:22:10
um I'm a little bit older than you but yeah the keg party thank you your mate's
00:22:14
chipping it every Friday though I mean if you're five years maybe I think it's 100 bucks or 90 bucks or
00:22:19
something yeah get a key and you just sit there and just get absolutely trolley I mean that was that was the
00:22:25
mentality yeah it was in the garage it was and um part of that was still on me but now I've got a whole heap of money
00:22:34
Taco red one not even that man it's all free you know because you know you walk
00:22:39
in after an aftermatch it's all put on the year there's a bar that's allocated
00:22:43
you walk in the sponsors products are all there there's a bar tear Bond so yeah
00:22:49
before you know it I mean you're just you're not even spending your own money
00:22:52
but you're just getting mother too so hero here I was now coming from a Lifeline there and still a huge huge
00:22:59
part of me I was partying every weekend and when I seen about my money that was just that was going to even though
00:23:04
things were free yeah um and yeah I got back from the Commonwealth Games I was just after just
00:23:12
after my 21st birthday highly intoxicated it's now what's crazy about this storm is I was sitting in The
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Barbers and no word of a lie and my wife was in there and I was getting like haircuts with the kids and there's a guy
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listening he goes okay those guys it would have been about a couple of months ago now
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and you see every now and then like oh yes but then I know who it is and it's
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Hi and then he mentioned hey do you remember me my wife wasn't even around then I said who are you and he was like
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I'm the guy that um helped you out of the bow and you when you pissed in it and I was like mate I'm 49 20 yard years
00:23:44
ago and here's a guy here that's just like I am he's the guy that sort of
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um sort of kicked me out I I said did you piss in the bar yeah I pissed at the bar so
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but when I I looked back and I remember you know um I got a call from the manager and I
00:24:02
was like okay okay so when I was a nobody then really I was like so I was thinking okay man this there's no way
00:24:07
this is going to come out you know hopefully I would have might have dodged the bullet
00:24:12
um brought the NZ Herald and obviously it's folded in half and was looking at
00:24:15
that oh Nick he's not there going through going through it or not I was like [ __ ] I've missed it and then as
00:24:19
I've closed it and then flipped it over it's on the front page and here's my
00:24:23
face oh so you went straight to the sports page yeah I was thinking oh [ __ ] and um
00:24:28
night it was that was massive because I sort of got to the part where I'm kind of like hey
00:24:34
I'm like one I was more embarrassed in in um for my family and especially my
00:24:40
mother uh this was now going to be in months um you know she's got a massive
00:24:46
um support group down there in terms of the church and the Memphis church and all the the old and the old ladies that
00:24:53
we've been talking to her about it and so it's more kind of that I was still
00:24:56
really young I still 20 I probably um yeah they hurt really bad nothing was like thinking far out you know um just
00:25:05
the girls in shame of letting your family yeah more than anything else you know because I still wouldn't my mind I
00:25:10
saw this one is 21ish and I was like okay cool I've got a I've got to give up
00:25:14
alcohol um and actually put some uh puts put some processes and well I hate to use
00:25:20
the word process but put some things in place so that I don't get mullered yeah or don't get to that sort
00:25:27
of stage which is did you reach that decision yourself or were you sort of sit down with a leadership group no
00:25:32
there wasn't really a leadership group then as well there's sort of leaders but
00:25:36
I was still relatively pretty young and I just thought man I've I don't want to
00:25:40
do this again I was more around the driven about Notting your family down yeah yeah yeah more than anything else
00:25:45
and then um and I actually I met uh Leo Malloy maybe about it would have been about
00:25:52
similar time to win this this is crazy and he I think he actually owned the bar he said to me oh I didn't even um he
00:25:58
said that he don't you know about him many years ago and that was sort of how
00:26:02
he remembered me I was like okay so that's the last time you remember um it's yeah it's crazy and I suppose I
00:26:10
started putting things into place to goals that I really wanted to achieve from there in part that didn't involve
00:26:16
alcohol just it gave me a sense to actually um have something to to strive for and and
00:26:25
be successful on the on the field and every Hall you know I think for the very first time that was probably the very
00:26:30
first time I actually backed myself and thought man I'll make you a good player
00:26:32
because one I'm on the on the front page so I didn't think I would be and two I
00:26:38
wanted to show people that others are good yeah rugby player yeah I think like what you did beyond that I
00:26:43
mean you know come on 100 tests like you I mean yeah it's remarkable it feels
00:26:48
like you you set a plan or you set some goals and you you [ __ ] smash them mate yeah yeah I did you did you did
00:26:53
really well that was a it was a Flawless and off the field after that like a Flawless career yeah uh and as I said I
00:27:01
mean a lot was that was driven by this the things that you relate to now just having goals not getting don't go out at
00:27:08
night you know I mean the altercation when I got you know after the final and just getting you know dragged out of um
00:27:14
taxi from that and then and and then having a broken eye socket well yes what was that one that was 2020 that was 2003
00:27:22
so 2003 so after what final the like Super Rugby final and so what happened or whatever it was and um
00:27:31
I was in a box or obviously getting hit a little bit of tongue-in-cheek to some of them and
00:27:37
um one of our um teammates got kicked out so I followed him out and I sort of got
00:27:41
tongue and cheek at the same time highly intoxicated jumped in the cab and I got
00:27:45
dragged down the tig and sort of just dealt to really but it was funny because it was just well not funny but it was
00:27:51
just crazy because I've gone throughout this whole period of um goals and everything and I've got to
00:27:57
that point I'm like just pissed in the bar the year before I want to eat myself
00:28:00
make sure that I'd get off the piss and really focus on rapist that did won the
00:28:05
final the following year had been on it and the first time that I did it this way everything it wasn't even my [ __ ]
00:28:11
fault yeah um and then the next day the All Blacks team was going to be named this is why
00:28:16
it was crazy because I had such a good season and I didn't really think I was
00:28:21
going to be named and every time I get asked I know where were you where you got you know named in the in the uh and
00:28:26
the All Blacks I honestly thought that they weren't going to pick me because
00:28:29
why did you why did you think that or urinated in the bath okay because of the okay yeah get stuck into this you
00:28:38
know they all said we're we're well to be honest I was you know at home with an
00:28:41
ice pick over my broken eye socket waiting for my name so it wasn't so awesome memory it's
00:28:48
still one that that often sort of mixed emotions exactly but it was man loved the fact that Mitch and Robbie sort of
00:28:57
had faith in picking me even though you know um you know they had the understanding
00:29:01
of what obviously happened but it almost took that one moment to not even be selected as an all black and
00:29:08
I'd hate I don't know where what I mean I still reckon I'd still get back onto
00:29:13
the path and be more motivated to do anything else but I still sort of really grateful and thankful that it didn't
00:29:19
eventuate today it wouldn't be where I am obviously today I feel like it'd be
00:29:23
very different now like I feel like it's way less tolerance now I like no no sort
00:29:28
of Second Chances so um so the eye socket thing is that the Line in the Sand were you like right there it said
00:29:33
I'm not [ __ ] up again why yeah I didn't I didn't want to there's a Rugby
00:29:37
World Cup yeah I've Loved I mean it's almost like I just when I got that
00:29:41
opportunity that I mentioned before about after um they tested they get a full back I
00:29:46
was like [ __ ] I just absolutely loved it I didn't really want to you know they say in the All Blacks so
00:29:52
hard um to be um not selected to get into it then I've obviously be dropped and but I just I it
00:30:00
was everything I I ever dreamed of I never thought that that's what it felt like to constantly being picked every
00:30:07
week go out there and play and I really enjoyed my Rugby it wasn't so much okay
00:30:10
all these things that had happened you know um I don't want to go down there
00:30:14
again I just loved being an all black I absolutely love the fact and I admittedly I didn't think I'd ever would
00:30:19
be Kevin all black it's probably on the back end of that but I just thought when you man when you're a with someone
00:30:26
someone get out from south end and every other it's you just aspire to these
00:30:31
Heroes that you see on TV and you know Michael Jones of the world and it's real
00:30:34
even dirty the Ronnie Clark cell or in Auckland and you don't really get to touch them really and yeah to them play
00:30:41
with them in the in the Auckland sides and then become this all black yeah just thinking you pinch yourself because
00:30:48
you've kind of like this this wasn't supposed to happen you know it was it was literally a dream to
00:30:54
be an all black but you're in it you love it so much um I didn't I didn't want it to end yeah
00:31:00
well and you did pretty well too yeah yeah I did I didn't I did I literally did
00:31:07
hang on to right down to the very last moment which is why I ended up and down to a chiropractor and getting him to fix
00:31:14
me up yeah yeah yeah so so who was it was new did your career overlay with China
00:31:22
no I played sevens of with the big man um I played against them I still remember sort of marking them a couple
00:31:30
of times when I've played wing for Auckland and also for the blues so um I was more there
00:31:36
um you know the Reuben Thorns was the the all-black Captain um a lot of Canterbury guys were around
00:31:42
and in fact there's a lot of Canterbury in Crusader guys still right um yeah so now there's a few of us still
00:31:49
this Carlos Spencer's yeah um of the world and um obviously Dougie Hallett who I've mentioned before yeah
00:31:55
yes didn't you um were you enjoying it quite time you were sitting next time at
00:32:00
uh Jerry Collins Funeral yeah so when I played my seventh in 2000 the first sevens in in Wellington that's when I've
00:32:08
really got to meet Jonah for the first time man I was crazy because this was kind of like did he buy you a cat
00:32:13
apparently he met people and bought them cars they'd buy us a car but I often
00:32:17
told the story about because you know when you're in teachers environment you
00:32:20
can't touch any of the fatty foods and stuff I just finished the first day of
00:32:24
the tournament John was like to me and the massiel valance came in we'll go for
00:32:28
a ride go for a feed and we're like oh yeah Sweden because we're going to KFC
00:32:30
we're like oh you ain't gonna say no right and um man it hit us because we lost the
00:32:36
final the next day against um Fiji but you weren't going to say no and I I literally wouldn't put it down
00:32:42
to the fact that he took us to KFC and ate the fatty foods uh I know you're right I love KFC but who doesn't yeah
00:32:49
but um I'll put it down down to that but who would who would say nato jono and
00:32:53
he's offering to take you to take you to KFC in that big boom box of a car thing
00:32:58
that's really the world record the world record for the loudest cars such a cool
00:33:02
car man crazy crazy guy hey I'm I'm so glad that he um he he you know passed
00:33:08
away because it'd be just the ultimate podcast guest like um yeah I'm quite
00:33:13
good friends with um Kelly and uh yeah the the their careers overlapped quite a lot and
00:33:18
they'd go to a new town or then they'd go to like a trick store and they'd buy
00:33:23
like a Boombox for the bus and he was just like ridic insanely generous so yeah when he passed away and he fed up
00:33:30
that he wasn't financially um uh secure like it makes perfect sense yeah a lot of money he did um
00:33:37
yeah and sad too and I suppose being um being who he was is very very generous um down to earth sort of spoke at your
00:33:45
level even though he wasn't he was way above it in terms of the stardom and who
00:33:50
he was but um but also financially and it's often that's the sort of stuff we kind of see
00:33:57
now some of the guys particularly the Maori and Pacific island boys which I've
00:34:00
been really big on and the financial space is making them understand something I just
00:34:07
not just your money but sort of how it all works yeah why you've got a mortgage
00:34:11
in the mortgages then what it looks like what interest rates are how you get because one day it's going to finish
00:34:16
and yeah there's always the only guarantee isn't it yeah no one's going
00:34:19
to be there to tell you to actually say well this is what it is you need to refix your mortgage and and to why and
00:34:25
some guys have even ran up and said they want to go to an auction and they're
00:34:28
like well have you got a pre-approval and he's like oh what's that um so it's crazy
00:34:34
um where does your literacy come from you mentioned you bought you you were telling some of the other guys about
00:34:40
buying houses and you had a house by the time you're 20 or something yeah I just
00:34:43
I kind of just jumped in and did it and then sort of asked questions whilst I was a little bit quiet I sort of
00:34:48
understood what they kind of looked like it helps when you've got mates that are
00:34:51
in um and that sort of space to bounce you know questions off as well but once you
00:34:57
understand [Music] um what the banks are looking for and the jargon that they're talking funny that's
00:35:05
often the case they're just talking oh weeper Jag and um when you strip it back it's really
00:35:10
really simple um but sort of explaining it in a simplistic way yeah um I've had to read up a lot
00:35:17
um on sort of head but also experience experience and stuffing things up uh not quite doing your own stuff properly
00:35:25
um have been to that but also listening I think um we've got a really good team in there
00:35:31
just we just bounce sort of stuff off because often it's where you learn the
00:35:34
most from someone else's mistakes when they've worn some houses up um um you know opportunity or um saying
00:35:44
it's Unfortunately they haven't quite quite right and so it's just more around
00:35:47
that just the experience around a lot of reading what's the coolest thing you've
00:35:51
done with your money did you manage to buy your parents a house or anything or I have a really cool so yeah I was I did
00:35:58
that in 2007 188 000 it cost me yeah it was a lot of money at the time when I was thinking to myself I'd
00:36:08
already just support purchase my house um for 250 000 out Western Newland so that's it I mean that time it was
00:36:19
crazy so um it's probably the best thing I've done yeah that's really cool so it
00:36:24
was uh you bought her a house outright or did you pay off your mortgage or no I I got to a stage where I started using
00:36:31
money a bit better so using the banks money to buy other things using equity in it and going but it's a really
00:36:37
high-end thing to be able to understand because you can do it that way my often you hear my people or my brothers
00:36:42
and they say man now I did I did I hate they got paid off got to pay adult paid off as soon as I paid it off then what
00:36:48
but yeah it's good and bad debt there is yeah so you're using actually good
00:36:51
ditability to um uh to get you to another another place and in the end that the safety is
00:36:58
as long as you don't lose your job um you know that you can always sell one off to pay for another one yeah um so
00:37:04
that's kind of how I've sort of geared things up and generated sort of uh that
00:37:08
portfolio um but again it's just about learning sort of how that works and um you often get people asking about
00:37:18
equity and saying oh well I've got this much Equity this makes you agree that
00:37:21
you've got to understand how the banks use equity yeah and that's that's
00:37:24
probably the things that we like to explain I love explaining it stuff yes you can use
00:37:29
um I often use my own situation um because it I just feels I relate to it better and I I I can explain it
00:37:37
better because I've been through it so that experience is is massive and valuable yeah I love drawing on that
00:37:43
yeah you found a real passionate like I I can see your eyes light up when you talk about like the money and the
00:37:49
nuances of the finance markets so so you um did you surprise your mum with the house or was she expecting it or they
00:37:57
actually lived in Aussie so I was always something that I wanted to do um and then they moved back and so it
00:38:03
was a little bit of a surprise but always something I suppose I've spoken to her about about buying them a place
00:38:11
um which is yeah she she lived in there for years until last year and then sort of
00:38:17
moved out now my brother lives in it um but they're they you know mum's always
00:38:23
appreciative of that they probably can do their own house they've actually moved on to another house because I
00:38:27
bought it and bought that lift and then I've got my other brother reading it but
00:38:30
not good advice to have a family living in your own in your own yeah it doesn't
00:38:33
get you much healed at all yeah well I've um yeah I'm lucky enough I've
00:38:37
managed to buy my mum an apartment so she lives in uh she lives in Gray Lynn and uh
00:38:42
it's still in my name I'm guessing you're it's your mum yeah yeah yeah
00:38:45
um but I I was sort of thinking um oh it's a good retirement thing and you know mum can live rent free because it's
00:38:50
costing me a bit of money now but you know whatever but it occurred to me that we went overseas recently me and Mum and
00:38:55
so I'm 50 she's 71. she's still gonna be alive at 90. so I'm going to be like well and truly retired
00:39:04
by the time she can't accept that so I can't rely on that oh you will be by
00:39:09
that time hopefully that house market sort of just what they are crazy at the moment they've gone ballistic they might
00:39:15
have doubled by the time you're right so you might you might be okay and hopefully you won't have too much too
00:39:19
much debt you can probably live off yeah no it's all good um I can say how many World Cups did you
00:39:25
do three three were you were you on the one where we got beaten by France and the yeah what you were saying was that
00:39:31
2007 2007. yeah yeah that was awful that sucked so that was the semi quarterfinal
00:39:37
semi-final quarterfinal yeah so and they just everything everything went lucky for them yeah well I'm not lucky I just
00:39:44
we just like bounce on the balls oh man we pee so bad I've never watched that final at
00:39:49
quarterfinal I haven't got the I just haven't got it in me to watch it um it still hurts like a lot mainly
00:39:57
because you're like sorry I've still got to go home I've got to go back to New Zealand and
00:40:01
then they had the old okay well this we didn't have flights here's the first
00:40:05
group that I'll go and go please don't read my name out please don't read my
00:40:08
name out I was lucky I was on the second I was on the second list because I was going oh
00:40:12
good luck guys uh you guys gonna get hammered when you get home from the public but
00:40:16
it was a crazy time we just I mean everything I mean we've often talked about it a lot about the things that we
00:40:22
didn't quite but I think a lot of the stuff that we didn't get quite right we
00:40:25
got it right in 2011. well this is this is the thing of of discovered in life like um your failure
00:40:32
is actually not a bad not a bad thing like you learn you learn nothing from your wins but you learn everything from
00:40:37
your from your your fails 100 and my life has been like it has been like I've
00:40:42
failed so many times but I as long as you get back up let's that's been my
00:40:47
biggest driver like man you can be in it and man it's so tough a lot of the stuff
00:40:50
that you have gone through and even my wife talks about it I don't know so thick skin but you kind of get to a
00:40:58
level of Tolerance where you can you know be thick skinned about the mistakes that you've made and they're you know
00:41:02
obviously being in the public eye um it comes you know 100 times more because you're in New Zealand in a small
00:41:10
country of 5 million but everyone knows who you are and what sort of happened so
00:41:13
you have to come a bit more uh resilient in terms of those mistakes that you do make but man I'm a big believer in
00:41:19
you've got to learn from that you know I I often look at it now and see um you know especially when you're
00:41:25
playing guys that are playing now with a um I sort of um I suppose judge them on
00:41:31
can you bounce back rather than you know not being able to bounce back for something for a mistake that you might
00:41:37
have made off the field because I you know guys and people do that you're so
00:41:42
much more respect for them because it's a hard damn thing to do because it's so
00:41:45
easy to sort of curl up and say I'm not sweet um I'm a failure you're not there's
00:41:49
failure there's a real real massive in terms of the growth in yourself and your
00:41:53
personal growth and whether you can come back from those yeah I agree have you always been resilient or do you think um
00:41:58
the [ __ ] you've been through over the years has made you is that they're
00:42:02
saying what doesn't kill you makes you stronger no man it's it's crazy it
00:42:05
probably has admittedly I would have loved to have not had so many fuck-ups but um
00:42:11
it has it really has and I think if you draw back at the stuff you know my my mum's as big and I've always sort of
00:42:20
it's be my biggest driver you know when I've sort of fallen off it's like oh [ __ ]
00:42:26
um it's not so much about me as sort of how do I make it right so you know when
00:42:30
you're turning up at home and mum's suddenly a smiley face telling you how
00:42:33
much she loves you you're like you know deep down inside I know you're really
00:42:36
hurting but yeah that's been um I suppose my biggest striving to try and get back on and succeed yeah by the
00:42:43
way you you talk about fuck-ups like there's been heaps of them there hasn't
00:42:47
though like from an outsider's perspective at least it seems like it's been a I mean it's a heck of a career
00:42:53
like we all know that but it feels like the like indiscretions mistakes call them whatever you want a like a you know
00:42:58
yeah really I know when you like the um yeah the urinating a bar in the eye socket thing like at the time it
00:43:06
probably feels like it's your entire world but then you look in the rear view
00:43:09
like you know 20 years on now whatever it is but it sort of feels like nothing right yeah I made it does it's still
00:43:15
it's still a part of me that goes [ __ ] it does I mean it's always stuff that I've got
00:43:21
to get better at and it's probably the alcohol um you know it was but and a lot of my
00:43:25
stuff's always been public as well there's the and the latest one and um and Cardiff in terms of the sexual
00:43:32
assault stuff I mean it's that was again [ __ ] after midnight um yeah let's Okay since since you've
00:43:40
brought that up let's let's talk about that because um yeah I I really felt for you through
00:43:46
this this whole thing so I woke up on a Sunday morning here in New Zealand to took my phone of flight mode and the
00:43:51
first pop-up I got was like staff or NZ Herald and um Mills arrested and then there's this
00:43:55
footage on TV so you're playing a game there yep uh what club what team so I
00:44:00
was playing for uh connect in in Ireland right and we just played the card of Blues
00:44:06
um and yeah we were we're out that night yes like it's it's crazy and this is
00:44:15
um just crazy how things panned out um would have been just your normal sort of Night Out it will be you know yeah again
00:44:23
intoxicated and getting back and it was well it wasn't until about a month later
00:44:27
that I we went back to play um we went back to actually Gloucester to play them and that's when
00:44:36
I got picked up I just injured myself and I was walking off the field and I walked off
00:44:43
um after the end of the game and then these police through there and I was like oh okay sweet I thought you did you
00:44:49
like your boots on my boots I was limping off and I was just kind of like [ __ ] um
00:44:56
got off and I just thought it was a practical joke I thought like here's um these cops and I go no no you need to
00:45:03
sit down and I was like I sit down just outside change room then I like you can't even actually I couldn't even
00:45:07
actually grab anything they said you need to come with us and I was like I stole
00:45:11
thought they were bullshitting me and then it wasn't until now and they said
00:45:16
yeah we're gonna take down to the station I was like okay sweet I might just grab a jacket so I've trained our
00:45:22
baggage me and grab me a jacket I went outside and as soon as I got outside the camera was really like just waiting yeah
00:45:29
and I think when I look back in I was that was probably the most guttering part um
00:45:35
I had no idea were you angry or just sad or confused I didn't I had no idea what
00:45:40
the heck was going on I had no idea even when so we went down and they took me to
00:45:43
the police station I think later on I was really angry because one the club knew was happening
00:45:49
yeah and two so did so did the rest of the uh the broadcasting the meeting decided to no
00:45:57
and I had no idea what the heck was going on furthermore man my league was aching so bad it wasn't funny mate but I
00:46:03
I went down there process and they had to take me from Gloucester to Cardiff still had no idea I had an absolutely no
00:46:10
idea what was going on I was in the back of the petty wagon so you're running
00:46:13
through your mind what could I have done yeah what am I what's what's going on
00:46:17
they didn't really say anything um I got there this is during the 2015 Rugby World Cup I got there and Light
00:46:26
we went and started doing um the paperwork they might have mentioned it yeah I can't remember now
00:46:32
but they were really friendly talking to me about the Rugby World Cup and stuff like that and I was just in a different
00:46:37
world I just kind of like what the heck's going on they gave me this book to read about rights and stuff then they
00:46:42
put me in a cell and I was like so it would have been about in close to midnight I just come well no
00:46:50
it was at like 9 30 9 30 finished game it took me to the glass Gloucester Police Station done all the stuff there
00:46:56
put me in the Paddy working by the time I got to Carter if it was midnight put me in a
00:47:02
cell and then left me there basically left me there um h8 no they gave me let me have a
00:47:08
shower and put my Rugby gear back on left me there um and no one came until about four o'clock the next
00:47:17
afternoon the next day oh my God so I was just sitting there going I didn't know what was going on
00:47:23
um no contact with anyone else other than I don't even think maybe perhaps it made
00:47:29
me a sandwich and then I got then the lawyer someone got a hold of a lawyer for me
00:47:36
and that was it it was all like I wasn't allowed to talk about it um went back what do they tell you what
00:47:45
do they tell you you're being charged with no six years old that was it um but
00:47:48
no further details no nothing further actually I mean they you know he came in with me we went into an uh this was
00:47:54
about um three three o'clock went into one of those interviewing rooms and they asked
00:47:58
me to watch a video and I was kind of like okay I'm watching a video if I didn't see Jack Jack I
00:48:04
couldn't even tell you what I seen in the video but all it was was um uh female had sort of backed into me
00:48:12
and I turned around and just sort of gave her a push um and you could you couldn't even see
00:48:17
that side of it I mean I made out that I that I'd given a sort of a um but all you've seen was who back into
00:48:24
me there was basically all you could see and then there was cameras going up so you can see me going up the stairs
00:48:30
talking to the bouncers there's a police woman there outside which I shook hands with them um
00:48:35
and she was just there talking to the bouncers um and that was all and that was all it was
00:48:42
that they sort of had neither see like heavy samples of the um her pants had been taken away and like this is a month
00:48:48
for later you know they were arrested me out a month later so you would have thought okay we've taken them away
00:48:52
straight after the um alleged incident surely you would have something out but um and then you weren't allowed to talk
00:49:01
about it and this was the biggest um uh I suppose we had to be you know that resilient
00:49:10
thick skin because one I was going through marriage separation with the ex my son was back here she was playing
00:49:15
real um no not really amicable and stuff and so there's all that crap going on I was
00:49:22
stuck in a um stuck in a hotel trying to sort of say um well trying to explain what was kind
00:49:28
of happening but then you weren't allowed to talk about it um so then come back and go far out and
00:49:35
the problem you have you know the justice system you know right up until you know you're you actually told to go
00:49:41
back you can't it's no Santa then you go back and they try to put in the
00:49:45
Magistrate Court which is basically a court beer system where you come in you're in front of a judge that's there
00:49:50
for the day so I had to I came back to New Zealand um like we're sorry I went back to
00:49:56
Ireland and you know to wait around until the next date which was effectively after the end of the season
00:50:00
so it would have been about another four or five months after which I'd come back
00:50:03
home to New Zealand then they were still looking through stuff and then they wanted me to fly all the way back to
00:50:08
plead guilty or not guilty in this Magistrate Court which is basically people have been done for drunk driving
00:50:13
they stand in front of a judge and the judge basically says Ah you know he'll
00:50:17
slip you with a fine so they wanted me to actually plead not to plead guilty for this mess of ramifications of course
00:50:24
there is it's huge you're not just you're not just saying in the and what
00:50:27
they've got it's kind of like I don't understand why I'm actually here you
00:50:31
know so yeah also you'd never plead guilty to something that you did not do exactly no and that was that was that
00:50:38
hurt the most and there was a lot of people around at the time there where I just
00:50:43
they started scrambling to within that team environment and that because they were out with me and they didn't want to
00:50:48
get implicated yeah yeah like almost to the fact that they wrote letters based on China's supporter but all of the
00:50:55
leaders were was kind of being supportive of your own case which really pissed me off oh I can imagine um
00:51:01
imagine but yeah it's um yeah Lance Armstrong's got the saying he talks about
00:51:05
um yeah when [ __ ] hits the fan people either lean in or lean out and I talked about
00:51:11
um this with Matthew Ridge when he was on the podcast last year and he goes he goes not many people lean in
00:51:17
you'll really find out who you're who you're mating you do man you do um
00:51:21
so I ended up going back and obviously I there's no way so you they either say
00:51:28
well you just maybe that's what's going to happen or you go and you get in front
00:51:31
of a but it's going to be a long process because you're going to have to be in
00:51:35
front of the jury and it could but I knew I was innocent yeah that's the whole bloody thing there's no way you
00:51:42
know I was going to say I'm guilty for doing what for nothing and I didn't
00:51:46
actually do anything you know and then um but the biggest thing is the whole in New Zealand of looking at this yeah
00:51:59
sexual assault it's so bad it's like a they it's like you know you've you've
00:52:04
been painted now as this guy sex offender yeah and um I know there's the uh the saying in
00:52:10
legal circles you know and it's an essential proven guilty but it's not really it's nice especially here yeah
00:52:16
um you never are and that's what I suppose there's nothing in there for me even
00:52:33
though all this [ __ ] was going on in the background and assuming it um um so yeah I stuck it out I was
00:52:40
um I ended up signing for Italy I'd already signed for Italy before this all
00:52:44
happened and they were really good the Italians say they looked after me um told them what had sort of happened and
00:52:52
then they they were really good fantastic and then until that day we went into court where they basically
00:52:57
threw the charges out and it was just kind of that whole process in um what you had to go through especially
00:53:04
my son my son was only like 704 but again it's like you know I often go back in as much as I'm pissed off
00:53:11
about the whole system and what sort of they've they've got you into to the
00:53:15
things ahead to the people they're doing at the end of the day I made those choices to to put yourself in a
00:53:20
vulnerable vulnerable position like what what do you mean though what like what choices did you make oh I think just not
00:53:27
just being out yeah I think because part of me has always sort of wanted to phase
00:53:33
myself out and be sort of anonymous you almost get to a stage where you're like
00:53:38
you are you're thinking you are anonymously out there because of your mindset whereas in fact you never are
00:53:43
you absolutely never are regardless of whether you know you're um you know whether you're a
00:53:49
professional rugby player or not things you do will always will always become yeah no I mean they're saying so I've
00:53:56
almost already jumped into that mold um so when you jump into that mode you've got to have that in the back of
00:54:02
your mind that you know when you do that do do go out that you are a Target um and there's things that come in no
00:54:09
matter whether you like it or not that's just that's just the case but again it's just I I just can't
00:54:16
believe that um you go through there like I've gone through you know a lot of adversity in
00:54:24
my life a lot of stuff I was some of them bought on by myself others that should never have damn happened
00:54:31
um but you've got to be pretty thick skin but that's probably made me who I
00:54:35
am today like a little confident like you're saying what I've done but I also
00:54:40
understand too um you know I've got three boys now I understand the consequences that come
00:54:46
with with a lot of my decisions and also enjoying in terms of the uh the ripple effect on top yeah yeah absolutely and
00:54:53
the boys will never know that but the thing is fencing it's always there too yeah so
00:54:59
um you know my boys will be living in a life of internet and Googling a name and
00:55:05
things coming up and so you know we're always mindful that we've got to be
00:55:10
upfront and honest with the police um because it's just this this day and age is a lot different to when you know
00:55:18
the days that I was growing up in good old invercargill with the wide roads um so how do you how did you like
00:55:25
navigate your way through that that period like waiting for the trial where were you crying a lot were you just
00:55:30
angry um like I just can't imagine I'm trying to put myself in your shoes I can't
00:55:35
imagine how frustrating it was I didn't I didn't cry nothing to cry about I am I
00:55:41
am I am an emotional person there's nothing to cry about I was I was more determined if like this is going to be
00:55:46
all right I knew him 100 percent this was going to be okay I had a lot of support good support back home in New
00:55:54
Zealand with you know my mates down uh Chiefs manager with the old Chiefs man just sorry we're really good friends if
00:56:00
Joe was really there even though she was um I think it was good being away from New
00:56:04
Zealand I'd hate to think what my son was going through because held was he at the time
00:56:10
uh what was it 2014 so nine years ago uh so he would have been four or five or five
00:56:19
six actually yeah so like he's probably young enough to not be too impacted yeah
00:56:25
not yeah exactly but still um so I think to help being in Italian they're telling us were wonderful it's a
00:56:31
wonderful place you are basically anonymous because no one really knows rugby bit
00:56:36
um so that definitely helped but I think the frustrating part is that I knew the
00:56:41
day would come um it was just win you know when would I be able to tell my story and I haven't
00:56:47
really spoken about it I've only spoken about it once since all today I haven't really touched on what I've
00:56:53
seen in that video and some of the things that I did see that perhaps I might want to bring out one day
00:57:00
um that's that's the real Annoying part for me um that you know when you say little people
00:57:08
lean in and lean out um you know the people that link didn't lent out had reasons as to why which is
00:57:16
um it [ __ ] me off at the time but I've um you know I've got a long memory and I'm
00:57:21
always one to really forgive but you never forget though I'll never um and that's what really annoyed me at
00:57:27
the time too you know whilst all this was going on but that's part of life you know it is
00:57:33
it's part of um understanding people and sort of working your way through them being hardened
00:57:42
about it the one that's kind of and I've always had that I don't know what what
00:57:46
what it is because of perhaps it's from my upbringing and being always that little boy that used to tag along with
00:57:52
my tag along my older brother and he used to always sort of yeah sort of leave me behind and I was always
00:57:59
resilient in terms of their sort of beat me up every now and then just sort of stuff it's always been in me so yeah but
00:58:05
you don't you don't want to be um you don't want to be too hard and you don't
00:58:08
want to become cynical you don't want to become that person but yeah mate I I don't know
00:58:14
how you navigated your way through that through that period did you see a therapist I have any counseling or
00:58:19
anything no no I didn't I didn't um oh man I didn't really I just I I didn't I don't even really know if I
00:58:28
really really talked too much about it I think Joe and I were over there and just sort
00:58:32
of I navigated my way through the I think a lot of me knew what had happened a lot of me knew that
00:58:39
I was it was going to be all right even though at the time when you're sitting
00:58:42
in there you think [ __ ] I don't even know how I don't even know how something
00:58:45
anyone could think like that you know what I mean um can you because what do you say in
00:58:50
the in the CCTV thing you you pushed it what do you mean you pushed it um well she was in your personal space yeah
00:58:58
I I you literally I'm not like a shove no no no no no um but just an excuse me yeah yeah so
00:59:05
there's a there is there's a a pillar there and she's basically turning around
00:59:09
and walked into me and bunt me into another person and then I've kind of like
00:59:17
it wasn't really really a push and then she's turned around and we'll kind of
00:59:23
just see it or looks like it said things um but then I ended up getting kicked out but even the even
00:59:31
um yeah sorry we walked out even in the statements and stuff so you're trying to
00:59:37
piece all this together because you're kind of like well here's some person say
00:59:42
this and another guy saying that and we've walked out there's no complaints to a police officer who was
00:59:48
right upstairs I mean I'm not a conspiracy therapist but at the time I'm just kind of like
00:59:55
there's just nothing and even when I was looking at you can vaguely even see
01:00:00
me in the bar I when I first looked at it they only showed me it twice and I first looked at it I was kind of like I
01:00:07
don't even know what I'm looking for or where I where I'm at um and that's that was basically it
01:00:15
um I wouldn't even say it was even a push um that's the most disappointing part about
01:00:24
it was just kind of like and there's just nothing you know um but again when I look at look at it I
01:00:32
think that got themselves into that much now that it made um that it made what they had to it's
01:00:39
like you had to go through it you know there wasn't but even the month before they even
01:00:45
did all that you know you've got to be surely you've got to know that you've got to have something you know it
01:00:51
was like I mean the whole time was almost like it's funny because I look back and say when I'm in the pot when
01:00:58
I'm in the cell and I'm sitting in there for the whole time that I was in there
01:01:01
that I was almost like they try to exhaust the crap out of me to see do something
01:01:09
um which I was kind of like this is so weird but man you had I had a lot of time to think about
01:01:15
so much [ __ ] because I didn't know what was going on uh so you're trying to run
01:01:19
through everything even slightly better I didn't even know what the heck is doing there you were in the single been
01:01:24
people yelling because it's a weekend right and so they're all yelling they're
01:01:27
all intoxicated and they're like [ __ ] I'm just I'm sure it was just a bit of
01:01:31
torture that they sort of sent me yeah they gave me just to very say mate they're just going to talk to you for a
01:01:36
little bit and then by four o'clock the next in the afternoon the next day we might even try
01:01:42
and see if we can get anything out of here um yeah that must have been such a so
01:01:47
you see you go to court that must have been a nerve-wracking experience because I I you you know
01:01:52
unequivocally that um you've done nothing wrong but there must be like a little bit of you that thinks well you
01:01:57
know maybe you know stranger things have happened no it's a funny thing because
01:02:00
like there's two phases to the court stuff so you have that and we plead not
01:02:04
guilty then there's another court date yeah you come out and you're in front of
01:02:08
them so you you know going through that whole period then there's another court
01:02:12
date where you're basically saying you're not guilty again to then for them
01:02:15
to work out you know um you know how the jewelry stuff's going to work or what happens
01:02:21
so the second time we've been in there by the time we sort of got there they
01:02:24
were like now leaving's gonna be dropped and you're going to just wasted all that time so I was going
01:02:31
in there going okay here's it's not we're not doing it today it is going to be another time where
01:02:36
it's all going to happen and that's when the public will understand and know and
01:02:41
people will know that I haven't done anything you know and so because it was cut short it's probably
01:02:48
you know unexpected and they didn't tell me until we're about to sort of
01:02:51
literally go in we're like hey hey these guys want to we want to have a chat
01:02:56
um the lawyer wanted um uh they'd spoke to the way the police in it and it was basically
01:03:03
done so within the I it was literally I didn't know what to think because at the
01:03:07
time I was just kind of thinking far out um this is crazy because I'm about to go in
01:03:13
the air and all this that I've gone through has been for nothing because I wanted people to see things I wanted
01:03:18
them to see that and see exactly yeah from the rooftop not even not even even this even this this CCTV I'm like me I
01:03:25
want people to see that I want people to see um I mean understanding that you know
01:03:31
that her pants got taken away straight after to be tested fingerprints and it was kind of like it's the most stupidest
01:03:37
thing that you could ever you know think about but surely at that time when you when you're taking someone off a rugby
01:03:43
pitch driving them two or three hours buddy Cardiff chucking them in a um in a cell
01:03:50
that you're gonna it's guilty all day do you know what I mean yeah look it looks yeah the Optics
01:03:57
are bad yeah I mean it's it's not good no you think Mills must have done
01:04:01
something really really bad yeah yeah exactly and that's and that was way unfortunately it was betrayed because as
01:04:08
soon as you use the language sexual assault as like Unity rape um and they I mean at the time you
01:04:16
I mean it's still a bit of anger you think [ __ ] now why can't she be named
01:04:19
that yeah yeah at the same time you're gonna [ __ ] I mean what are the reasoning
01:04:27
stay here or whatever I mean that part of the part of me wanted that trial that happened before that reason yeah
01:04:34
to actually name the person too because I knew I knew 100 that I hadn't done anything
01:04:42
and and so I suppose the next goal was I can't wait for this to happen if it's
01:04:47
not something that you can't wait for but I always knew the day would come yeah
01:04:53
um and it came a lot earlier even though it wasn't still wages to get to earlier than what
01:04:57
I was anticipating yeah it's a lot to go through I don't say it's a lot she said I reckon
01:05:05
Life Is Life for the most part it's um pretty flat and boring and then in between there's some there's some real
01:05:10
real highs and real real lows for everyone your highs have been very very high your lows have been very low as
01:05:18
well they're crazy yeah yeah but I mean the early the ones in the early 20s they
01:05:23
were yeah that's you you know you own that you wear that that's your fault but
01:05:27
this one um yeah this is that what a what a thing to go through yeah and I think man
01:05:33
that's not something you dwell on like yeah how do you not I don't I just where
01:05:39
does that come from um I'm not a I'm not a big believer in holding on to holding on to stuff you
01:05:46
know I know you know you don't you don't I mean yeah you never forget you don't but [ __ ]
01:05:52
holding a grudge on so much [ __ ] is just it's not healthy it's not really
01:05:58
are you excited by the things ahead you know my life's I mean my life's way
01:06:02
better than what it was during that period of time I've learned a lot from that you know
01:06:08
um I've got a wonderful family just just things like that you can just you know
01:06:13
there's no use holding on to [ __ ] I mean don't you be wrong every now don't be
01:06:17
angry but um yeah just wasted energy sort of holding on yeah yeah I went 100 and how was your
01:06:25
um she was your girlfriend at the time mate how was sheets with this whole period
01:06:29
uh yeah she was good yeah um well I think so I I think she struggled the most because there is a bit in there
01:06:34
where and you can understand Lee um and it's understandable that there would
01:06:41
have been doubts in her mind about sort of what happened yeah she's got her friends
01:06:46
yeah yeah um that it was you know she's she understands I mean there's still
01:06:54
there that side of me who's bubbly and stuff and likes a bit of to layer up every now and then but Jay
01:06:59
was Joe has been awesome in um in terms of I play you know her support during that time
01:07:06
was probably a lot of that probably got me through this is very similar to my mother
01:07:11
um but yeah we I mean we hardly I haven't spoken about this um since I did an interview for one of the
01:07:20
Irish um kiwis that we did um because it's just not no it's not something you sort of dwell back on no
01:07:28
well thanks for talking about it better today um yeah I I mean I wasn't sure if you if
01:07:33
you wanted to or not and either way that's cool but there's I mean I suppose
01:07:37
because it's reasonably recent it feels like a you know if if this was the Mills
01:07:42
book it probably feels like a chapter or a couple of chapters but I'd love to
01:07:46
write down the book I I yeah I sit back and I wrote the one that I wrote too early I think I think um I'm definitely
01:07:52
a different person I've different got a different sort of um perspective of life and stuff too
01:07:58
it's funny though just how how much you change um I've had Adam priori on the
01:08:03
podcast and he's um he's 52 now and he he says he doesn't recognize the cocky
01:08:09
Brash Wicket keeper that he was in his early twenties and it's like but that
01:08:14
was his authentic self at the time but you just change and you grow and then I think if you if you get to middle age
01:08:19
and you're embarrassed about some of the stuff you've done it's probably it's
01:08:22
probably good yeah it's not a bad thing isn't it yeah well I mean the alternative's not changing at all and
01:08:27
yeah that's no good so what are the yeah okay we'll close we'll close that
01:08:32
chapter because I appreciate you being so honest honest and open about it because I can tell it's not an easy
01:08:36
thing to talk about thank you so thanks for talking about it on my podcast today
01:08:40
um you're good I'm good yeah I'm good yeah it's um it's actually quite
01:08:46
um cathartic yeah I don't say like it's kind of like because I wouldn't say I'm apprehensive about
01:08:53
bringing it up but it's also important that um it is part of my life too that you're
01:08:59
kind of like thinking far out um it's um recognizing acknowledging that how the freaking heck I went
01:09:07
through that I don't even like just you talking about it and then sort of seeing
01:09:10
it today I was like I'll let you move through that [ __ ] and um yeah and it makes things
01:09:19
way better now just sort of is a good way to celebrate sort of the success of head off the field to having gone
01:09:25
through that that nonsense how is it how has it changed you like you do you avoid
01:09:31
going out now um or I mean you shouldn't because you know you didn't do anything
01:09:35
wrong but yeah I I mean I still like going I don't go out as much as what I used to um kids sort of have um had that
01:09:43
effect on us but yeah if you're 43 and you're rolling at a spy bar at two in
01:09:48
the morning it's not it's not good the next day either so yeah best maturity isn't it
01:09:55
it's just just growing up and then understanding that you know a good time it's about planning your good times like
01:10:02
you know um and then having sort of things in place I've got a really good group of
01:10:07
friends that understand you know who I am and what I do that we're not sort of
01:10:11
going out to get muddled anymore or putting yourself in a vulnerable position where I think
01:10:18
a lot of my friends never wouldn't do that just for a sheer laughter at all it's not funny because the consequence
01:10:23
of me is way bigger yeah it is it is you're gonna mess up I mean yeah as we said you're one of like nine people that
01:10:29
have played 100 tests so yeah the Target on your back for the rest of your life is massive yeah so yes I've just got an
01:10:35
understanding of it I mean and to be honest I really I appreciate having a few at home and just um going
01:10:42
to the beach and doing the same thing even three or four years or whatever that is
01:10:47
eventually going to the state of origin which I can't wait for but um even my
01:10:51
mates talk about that hey we just got to make sure we don't get too carried away it's just we
01:10:56
would never have those conversations before yeah I mean so um it's just been mindful of you right
01:11:01
but there's never no way you'd go back to the stuff that I used to do yeah and
01:11:06
um who's your close group of mates are they any of them anyone that would know
01:11:10
now the majority of my schoolmates from Custom boys we've got a really good group
01:11:17
um all my mates here it's just funny everyone always asks you you know who's
01:11:20
your mates from the real blacks like you know you get on with the most you love them mate it was like your best mates
01:11:26
when you're there and when you leave the environment you go back to your own
01:11:29
families and friends but when you come back it's like you've never left but
01:11:32
they're not they're not your mates they're not yours yeah they're your
01:11:34
workmates yeah right and so but I've got a real man-made since you know when I came up to custom all my
01:11:42
group of friends are still still around and we have a group chat and we occasionally we sort of we should really
01:11:48
catch up more but we always say we do but we never do but we keep in contact which is fantastic yeah
01:11:54
um so how many World Cups did you win just the one just one 2011 yeah [ __ ] how good was that mate oh my God here so
01:12:01
that was the the game against France what was it eight seven in the finals yeah yeah oh crazy that was the worst
01:12:07
game to watch Ever that was just awesome I was watching this I was injured as well so I was watching him beside Dan
01:12:13
and it's got to be the most nerve-wracking moment of Our Lives even with beef
01:12:21
it's just kind of like [ __ ] this is please don't let this happen again to us
01:12:25
because that would have been our third time yeah that's right that the whole thing is
01:12:29
absurd hey so yeah um yeah Dan got injured early on Richie had a broken foot and was like barely training during
01:12:36
the week and training and like running shoes and Aaron cruden got called up and then Stephen Donald yeah and then all
01:12:43
the you know all the stuff that it happened with um Corey Jane and is he going out and
01:12:48
stuff and that I mean it needed a good ending and a good ending was that we won yeah well we
01:12:57
should not because France played way better than what we did but this stuff in 2007 was what got us
01:13:04
home and oh man we had some good couple of days of um of celebrations 2007 was that the one that we talked
01:13:11
about earlier yeah yeah 2003 we lost the semi-final to Australia 2007 we lost the
01:13:17
quarters to France and 2011 we won yeah so we talked about earlier like you learn more much more
01:13:23
from your family failures don't they yeah so that um the one in uh 2007 against France I remember you know the
01:13:30
shots of um yeah Ted Graham Henry and Richie at the press conference afterwards and Richie just looks yeah
01:13:36
like like numb he does the thing where he rubs his face and everyone thought he was sort of crying and he he wasn't but
01:13:42
he you know you could tell he was just distressed or unhappy nice that's one of
01:13:46
the days that you do want to forget about it man it's still here it says because I think because for a lot of us
01:13:54
we're at our time in our career we were going to be finishing up and then obviously if we'd won that it
01:14:00
would have been perfect we had it didn't go overseas and make some money um well
01:14:03
you know um cash United but then you're kind of getting to the age of 27 next one's like
01:14:08
31 you're like [ __ ] I don't know if I'll make it yeah that's that's definitely
01:14:12
what I fell into I was like oh far out now so it was way more satisfying to win that because of what we'd gone through
01:14:19
in 2007 more so than 2003 because it was so young we're probably a little bit
01:14:24
naive in terms of the whole world cup stuff for a lot of us it came through um from 2003 so
01:14:30
11 was fantastic man it's so cool and you've I mean you know you've you've got
01:14:35
such good life and there's um yeah you're thriving with the business and
01:14:38
there's so much to look forward to do spend much time like reflecting or looking back are you much of a
01:14:43
sentimentalist like that I am not I'm not a centimeters I am I mean even my jerseys they are keyless
01:14:50
where I live really where are they in a box in a garage downstairs and um how many of them did you give away
01:14:58
how many how many of you still [Laughter] oh my God really I only did it who priced them oh [ __ ] she went and got
01:15:15
them that he valued it um somewhere overseas but I I didn't even actually I didn't even care I was kind of like no
01:15:23
sweet as Southern but it wasn't at all like um I mean they itemize it because I
01:15:29
didn't have them there he talked to my kids and my son who they were here with
01:15:35
us you're not there can I have one of your jerseys and you're like oh [ __ ]
01:15:38
okay how am I going to keep these in if I'm going to sell them and that was the
01:15:42
only reason um so I was like you've got to buy them so I mean [ __ ] the scheme of thing
01:15:46
they said is for the boys and my Middle's somewhere my Commonwealth Games is that a gold I've got a commonwealth
01:15:52
games gold medal which is the boys and my cap that they put on every now and then
01:15:58
they're probably it's probably lost somewhere under their beds or something
01:16:01
um 100 tests for my Hundred tests I know I know it's about uh pull your head up I
01:16:08
know I've got to come on I just doesn't it's not I'm not big on there I'm going
01:16:12
to donate them to a museum or something yeah I should really I should I mean I I've given them some away since I've
01:16:18
finished speaking they've asked them for charity in there they literally are in a
01:16:22
suitcase like collecting dust because I'm I'm not a I'm not big on seller
01:16:28
Brown like this I don't even have a jersey up in my house mums which I'm
01:16:32
more embarrassed about she she puts one up at her place and I'm like man you've
01:16:36
got to get that down um it's just not so like Memories for me is more important than that like I don't
01:16:43
need a Sentimental thing to say far I'm afraid you know this is what I did but
01:16:46
my kids now it's more it's they love it you know they love it effective they
01:16:51
kind of still can't believe I was in all black um well not just normal like a like a
01:16:55
great orbler oh yeah how many how many tries did you where are you on the try list no I'm way behind so I wouldn't
01:17:02
even have a clue how many tries I sort of scored um my kids keep asking me that I should
01:17:07
really do a Google search by the way can I just say you're a hopeless is it a modesty thing or what is it like
01:17:23
where do you think this comes from my memories are up here and probably in here more than anything else like [ __ ]
01:17:30
memories you can't remember how many tries yeah yeah I think this once you've sort of done it
01:17:35
you're kind of it's it's probably more also related to when I said you know I want to I don't want
01:17:42
to become Anonymous that's probably part of it too I don't need to hold on to
01:17:45
stuff to say man that's me that's my identity because being an all black isn't like you as a
01:17:52
person and going through what you've done and what you're doing now and inspiring other people that's
01:17:58
that's more me you know I love I love helping people which is why I'm in this
01:18:03
sort of space particularly in the Maori and Pacific island space so we have a lot and then we've had massive success
01:18:09
in terms of home ownership for for Pacific Islanders which I'm really proud of
01:18:16
um I don't need even though it's probably you know getting in front of the um these
01:18:21
families have come from being an all-black I don't need to Dingle and say hey this is who I am and when all black
01:18:27
you know you need to that I don't know I just I've just never never had that
01:18:33
before my probably the the one Jersey that I probably do hold on to that I've
01:18:37
folded and lifted my wardrobe as the New Zealand schools Jersey that I actually gave away to want to the Solomons which
01:18:43
they gifted back to me on my 40th um and it's funny because I've rode on
01:18:48
the back of it the score um the massive jerseys and that's probably the only ones that I love
01:18:53
there's an under 19 ones that they gave back to and that's probably more
01:18:57
um special to me because that's where my journey started yeah um from all of that so I would say and
01:19:06
literally I mean it's not hung up or anything but it's it's folded sitting underneath my baseball caps I
01:19:12
think so um but I I mean it's yeah like part of me shakes my head in disbelief that um
01:19:18
you've got these these amazing things and you know you couldn't care less
01:19:21
about them but then um part of me I I'm I'm [ __ ] proud of you because it means um you know if you
01:19:27
weren't doing anything worthwhile with your life now it'd be very easy just to
01:19:30
like sit in the past yeah or look in the past but the fact that you're doing good
01:19:34
stuff and you're thriving in this next um phase of your of your life and like
01:19:38
people say life short but it's actually bloody long you're like another career or a couple
01:19:43
of careers ahead of you I think it's kind of cool yeah I love it I I love what I'm doing
01:19:48
I'm busy um probably too busy now I'm and it's so crazy because I'm now going to the Rugby
01:19:54
World Car the fourth one is a commentator and I never in my wildest dreams would I ever thought [ __ ] I'm
01:20:00
actually I'm actually commentating I'll commentate and actually say stuff in the
01:20:06
weekends and in shows and now I'm going to you know the Pinnacle of rugby and
01:20:12
I'm actually calling a game and to be selected to do that and be trusted to do
01:20:17
this um man it's um it's hard because I know I have to leave my family behind
01:20:25
um yeah how do you how old are your younger kids now so max is 14 uh McKenzie he's five and Marco's four
01:20:32
right so I'm not a big traveler yeah um and Scott Skye have been awesome for me
01:20:36
they've been like um in terms of even domestically so um but to have them sort of beg me to go
01:20:44
over the world cup for nine weeks I know we'll get there um it's going to be massive so I'm
01:20:50
really looking forward forward to that so I've got a really I feel I've got a
01:20:54
really good balance in life I've got a nice nice job Monday to Monday to um well it's not really a job because
01:21:00
it's your own company yes I mean I get to the Fridays and you're starting to
01:21:05
prep for the weekend and um then you go through there the hardest part is when the All Blacks don't go so
01:21:11
well because it's been a rough one yeah how do you yeah how do you how do you find that so
01:21:17
um when you were a player um if a commentator or a writer or whatever JK's say for example wrote
01:21:23
something mean about you were you did you get salty about it you no way because you know and I've always said
01:21:29
that man I'm I'm when I'm finished I'm never gonna be that old old all black
01:21:33
guy that's going to beg the guys because you know I hope I hope it comes like I know I'm
01:21:40
I'm mindful of the words you use um you got to have an opinion and I think the more that I've said in this role The
01:21:48
more I've been comfortable with having an independent because at the same time
01:21:51
you're sort of still certainly man I don't want to say that about them or I
01:21:54
don't have the right to say that um but there's ways of doing it um and being respected uh respectable
01:22:01
about it yeah and then hopefully it doesn't get taken out of context because
01:22:04
a lot of it does it makes good um clickbait it does yeah big time and unfortunately that's just the world we
01:22:10
kind of live in but I've always been um but you also you don't want to lie about
01:22:17
the way they're going either you know because as a former player so you know
01:22:21
when you're playing [ __ ] you know you think you haven't found form but you
01:22:24
believe in the fact that it's going to come so I often kind of put myself in the
01:22:28
issues in terms of what man how would I feel how would I be feeling right now and why are these challenges sort of
01:22:34
happening why isn't you know um so I I am it is I am very mindful of that but at the same time I think I've
01:22:41
gotten really comfortable um the guy's Sky have been awesome comfortable in what I what I have my
01:22:48
opinion and that I has she had one I feel like um New Zealand's a like a in general like a kind of place now like
01:22:55
you talked about being nervous about coming back from the 2007 was the World Cup yeah yeah I feel
01:23:00
like um New Zealand's a more tolerant place now the backlash like but you're
01:23:04
not going to get people spitting on you like they did it to coach John Hart back
01:23:07
in the day no but it it helps that you've won a couple of World World Cups too so once we've done it that way we
01:23:14
only won one yeah yeah but uh you know say oh well we can't win it every time
01:23:18
yeah yeah I think you know they're more receptive of that you know kiwis that's it's tough the other they've
01:23:25
always been chasing out there but we're more realistic now in terms of our know hey we can't win them all you can
01:23:32
you absolutely can't it was the day we where we did and we were very successful
01:23:36
I mean that got boring too right yeah almost would worry about I think 93 sort of one uh record so it was just crazy I
01:23:43
know and that's massive in terms of sport in general right and so um I think you know kiwi's having these
01:23:49
other things too that that are around we're so successful so many other sports
01:23:54
and um even you know even individual sports is is awesome yeah and how's your um how's your
01:24:00
relationship with the the X now is there any sort of relationship now yeah that's
01:24:04
all right it's just because you're the oldest boy together yes yeah yeah yeah
01:24:09
so you're co-parenting okay I think it's good these things take time eh oh mates
01:24:15
I don't know it's not a party like we don't talk so I think yeah for Max's sake we sort
01:24:21
of just um just gotten on with it and we've got the process sets in place it's
01:24:25
pretty good I am I am still mindful of the fact of um max is a big part of our Lives yeah
01:24:30
so we give them 50 50. um but he's becoming um their teenage boy too that I was and
01:24:38
I often put myself in the man where is he at with this and um be mindful of of my role in this even
01:24:46
though I don't get on with his mother yeah yeah but yeah yeah I'm you're both
01:24:51
respectful of each other like you know bad-mouthing each other no it's well I
01:24:55
don't I can't control it she she does but I think it took a long time I mean you talk
01:25:02
about the court process that we've just spoken about yeah it took me a long time
01:25:06
to get to where this you know mixer so perhaps part of that for me hardened me in terms of the stuff that I was going
01:25:13
through um because even that part of getting access to mix was very difficult in the justice system
01:25:22
um but yeah um oh God the messiness of being an adult hey I'll make life is tough and
01:25:30
again I I talk about experience right and so covert bought us another you really wanted business you
01:25:39
know through breakups um and when you're talking to clients about your own experiences and buying
01:25:46
back your hundred old jerseys whatever it is whatever it was they laugh right they laugh about that yeah and so you
01:25:57
that's the experience I'm talking about going through you you can't beat going
01:26:01
through the stuff up something you know I I hope awful at the time though yeah absolutely but you've you've got to use
01:26:07
that in some way and that's how I use my experiences man and there's and what's the lesson in this what does
01:26:14
that mean the the listening think about the kids yeah you know you're going to
01:26:18
get to the end result but what what does that cost you in terms of not just monetary but the
01:26:24
mental burden on urine kids I'm not there to be a psychologist but I'm there
01:26:28
to share my frustrations that I had that I probably would have done things a little
01:26:33
bit different too and sort of um be supportive around some of the things they need so admittedly you just
01:26:40
there to give them your financial advice in terms of where they can get to and what they're working to try and do
01:26:45
whether it's buy out or um you know sell everything up and then buy but I think there's also an element
01:26:52
to where you're sort of because you've gone through it yourself um that you can't appreciate some of the
01:26:59
things that you're actually talking I mean you're selling all your portfolio
01:27:02
and giving halfway and you're thinking okay you're never gonna you're never
01:27:06
gonna get back to what it is and there's no way I mean you built it all up I've started again and it's way more
01:27:13
satisfying this time because I know a lot more than what I did admittedly I wouldn't
01:27:17
have loved to give away a 2000 square meter property out in New London I could have sold to a developer for 50 100
01:27:25
million but hey what I mean what do you do you mean you can't just dwell on that
01:27:29
sort of stuff so experience is Big it's it's huge in terms of um the space that I'm in
01:27:36
um you know both on you know on the rugby pitch and also you know the financial stuff that I'm doing yeah well
01:27:42
I I can't wait to see what your next mistake is not more no no no yeah yeah mistakes as long as you learn
01:27:51
from the market I think they're fine but and and uh I say okay I kind of mean
01:27:55
that in a way like your next mistake it's not going to be something alcohol related because I feel like you've
01:27:59
you've completely learned every lesson there is to to be learned there yeah so
01:28:03
I I yeah I suppose good and bad I can't wait to see what's next in the middle
01:28:07
story yeah I mean what a life I know it has I mean ah this is probably the most I've ever reflected back on anything
01:28:15
I've done so I thank you Dom for uh inviting me in into this uh space and talk about myself because it's not
01:28:22
something I've ever done before I can tell I can tell I can tell it's um it's
01:28:28
a shame in a way because um you've got so many stories to tell and uh you know
01:28:32
if the time comes where you you change your mind and you want to be a bit more public I know there's um you know you do
01:28:37
very well on the public speaking circuit you've got a lot of lessons and a lot of
01:28:41
people can learn a lot of stuff from you yeah actually actually listens then just just
01:28:46
[ __ ] good memories too yeah and I think that's the thing like [ __ ] you just
01:28:51
if I get some of those memories because you don't go back and reflect on it man
01:28:55
there's there's so many of the really good stuff that you could just kind of
01:28:59
because you've parked that side of your life away and You're gonna laugh like
01:29:02
what is what I've done with that life you know it's all Swedish but when you
01:29:07
remember like actually yeah that's right and that's what happened that way that's
01:29:10
what's happened that's what I was like even the stuff that I've spoken to you
01:29:13
about there's so much funny [ __ ] that happened during that time that probably made things a lot easier
01:29:19
too it probably doesn't seem like it at the top yeah yeah what what are you in
01:29:22
something like that's going on I suppose it's like all consuming so yeah yeah
01:29:26
yeah but anyway um my friend daggy who's filming this he just bought in a note
01:29:30
saying um 34 tries which puts you in the top 30 in uh and World rugby oh really oh I didn't know
01:29:38
that oh mate is it World rugby or just all blacks in the world rugby should have been more greedy
01:29:48
together all right hey Millers milliona thank you so much man I've really really
01:29:53
enjoyed it it's been awesome and um thanks for being so open and so vulnerable thanks again if you don't
01:29:57
pleasure [Music]