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okay Runners only with dime Harley
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Runners only with dom Harvey and one of
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my favorite All Blacks of all time and
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definitely without a doubt my favorite
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mortgage broker of all time Mills
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miliano hello g'day thank you hey mate
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thank you so much for coming over thanks
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for coming on the podcast
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um I I need to start by preempting
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something I did um you were supposed to
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come on a couple of weeks ago and then
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there was a last minute family emergency
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um and you had to postpone somewhere in
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between then and now I've lost my notes
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and I only realized like about an hour
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ago so I'm going in nude no notes you
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thought I wasn't going to come back yeah
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you were like no he's just using one of
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those excuses I'll check these out
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there's no way he's coming back no I did
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a lot of research but I'm not sure where
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it's going so I've got some of it
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committed to memory but um I I'm I
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actually feel okay with that because I
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know you're a good conversationalist and
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it's great to have you here
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um
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first of all I want to say how this how
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this came about
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um you you were not even on my on my
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radar and I was driving along I think I
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had News Talk ZB playing and uh an ad
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came on voiced by you as a mortgage
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broker and I thought um Melissa be a
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great guest so I Googled you and there
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you were how did you get into being a
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mortgage broker crazy yep um I mean when
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I sort of initially came back from from
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finishing up playing rugby wasn't the
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ideal plan well it wasn't really the
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plan I wanted just to come back and
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um sort of phase out of the whole sort
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of rugby scene and quietly ago about
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owning my own business and Chiropractic
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and that's what I came back to stated in
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my first year at aut in 2017
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um just my prereqs
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um but sort of fast forward to different
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things kind of happened um and I've
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always had an interest in um in
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purchasing houses I had a portfolio when
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I was playing rugby don't know how I got
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on there but I managed to buy my first
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house at the age of 20. um and then sort
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of along the way sort of built built
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that throughout my career and then sort
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of helped a number of my sort of peers
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into it um
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came back had did a couple of shows was
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for Sky Scotty Stevenson sort of asked
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me to come on and I was like nah that's
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media is not really we wanted to get to
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um he sort of initiated that
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conversation while I was still playing
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at the Chiefs and other certain there's
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no way I want to get into that and um
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but I did it as a sort of a favor went
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on for three shows for Skye
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um
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and it just never stopped so fast
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forward
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um you know actually was during that
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time
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um my my good mate from school Vinnie
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mcliffe is my business partner he wanted
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to leave the banking space so he's been
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in banking 20 odd years managed a few
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Banks csb benzed and he said to me look
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um would you be keen on
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doing it and I was like well yeah man we
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feel ready because obviously you have to
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take the leap and
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um you know we have to get cracking into
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it once you give once you give um your
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origination and you're obviously Beyond
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gardening level we did it he handed in
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his notice and they kept him off for
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another six weeks which was crazy
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um and this is where I've got to today
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and so that that ad that uh you've you
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heard it's been a real big part because
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it's not something that I've been really
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comfortable about as sort of the public
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face that's the marketing side of it you
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know but
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um and Joe who's my my wife she's been
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pushing along with Vinnie um that we've
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got to Branch out a bit more but
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um we've had so much success you know I
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suppose
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um yeah I'm I'm probably a little bit
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comfortable in terms of sort of what
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we're what we're doing and how that's
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come about and that's probably how I've
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ended up here mate if it wasn't for that
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you probably wouldn't have reached out
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it was bigger on the radar so it's a
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good thing well I I appreciate it
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because it's you're such an interesting
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guy and you know the one of um we talked
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just before the podcast started one of
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only I think nine or ten people that
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have played like 100 all black tests
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yeah
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um so it's good to get you get your
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story at the end I'm pleased that you're
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thriving in life yeah it's really cool
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where did where did the money smarts
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come from
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when did you get your first professional
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rugby contract like 17 18. yeah I was so
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I I was 18 I think I played New Zealand
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Sevens at 19. I actually played for
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Samoa before that and the sevens
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um part but I played New Zealand Sevens
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um had no idea about money um my back
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well I've got six brothers and one
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sister
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um my parents broke up at an early age
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um you know while I was down this I
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never knew anything about money we lived
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in social housing rented majority of Our
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Lives
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um once I got my first real contract I
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kind of just spent it on anything and
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everything you remember how much it was
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I can't actually remember um I think it
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was uh for sevens it was like every
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tournament that you went on you got like
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two thousand dollars
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uh and then from there on
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um it was a thousand dollars if you
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missed the tournament but my first sort
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of Academy contract was two thousand
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dollars so I was at school I came up
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from invercargill obviously and did my
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last year of school at Charleston and um
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the following year Auckland rugby will
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offered me an academy contract with two
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thousand dollars and at the same time uh
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South and Rugby Union offered me a ten
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thousand dollar contract and I thought
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man it's awesome I'm playing PC the
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following year I'm still at school and
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ten thousand dollars is massive it's
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kind of like winning the lotto and yeah
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you know but yeah in the scheme of
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things it wasn't wasn't that much money
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at all I mean I would have blown some of
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my conscious I probably would have blown
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that in two weeks you know and give them
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the party I suppose when you're that age
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you think all you can think is like I
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can get a car I can get a car or I can
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get whatever yep to team buy Mama house
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for ten thousand dollars I wouldn't have
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been about afford anything really so
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um the 18 18 19 ish I had a relatively
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sort of um Semi-Pro uh contract and then
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it's just funny looking back now because
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I feel so old because some of that stuff
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I can't even remember it's just how old
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are you now I'm Matt I'll be 43 next in
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July so I'm probably good yeah trying to
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it's always harder these days but um
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it's crazy looking back at how fast sort
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of things
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um evolved and then playing professional
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rugby I often just
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um just wonder how I ended up doing it
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because it was just kind of what do you
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mean
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oh I think when you're when you're kind
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of in it and things happen in the
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pressures of the world and the pressures
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of playing rugby
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um you don't realize how fast time flies
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until you get to the the end of your
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sort of
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the end of your career but the end of
00:06:29
your or the life cycle here in New
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Zealand right you kind of think far out
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um
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I'm not even that old I'm you know 30
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almost 30 years old and I'm kind of like
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man there's still a whole life time
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ahead and that's probably when I started
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thinking about
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uh what life after I've been the big
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priority what was it a big thing for me
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since that priority was that I didn't
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really want to be living in the whole
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bubble anymore like I had enough of that
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I had enough of
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you know been walking down the show I
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was happy to be able to be anonymous
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yeah and just do my own thing and just
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sort of and that's probably part of the
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reason why I wasn't big on advertising
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and marketing because you know I felt
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that you know I could you know um easy
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just sort of do my own thing and be and
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be happy with that as long as I knew
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what I was kind of kind of getting up to
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and doing
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wow so it's a nose sort of no sort of
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Desire or ego to be in the public eye
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really no which is crazy now it
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it's a remarkable career and everyone
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loves you
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um so I mean it would you know it would
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be understandable and make sense to like
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cash in on that great name that you've
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built yeah I just it's not your thing
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was it was never it wasn't my thing I
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think I didn't know I mean we just
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exhausted from it being your thing for
00:07:42
so many years I didn't really want to be
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it wasn't a thing where I thought man I
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still want that I still want that
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identity yeah having people sort of know
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who I was
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I've seen that guy somewhere was it a
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was it an ad or was it a TV show no I
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was happy with that you know rather than
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sort of
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um like you have been with with the
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rugby days where everything's about
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rugby and um and what you sort of what
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you sort of done on on the field and
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more
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um particular sort of off the field too
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so but it's just um I love it I I love
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what I'm doing now
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um you know I I loving the work that I
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do I'm loving being in um a broadcaster
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if that's what you want to want to call
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it
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um really enjoying that side of
00:08:31
um that side of life and sort of the
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opportunities that have I suppose come
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from the stuff that I didn't really want
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which is um which has been fantastic
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yeah it's kind of cool because so you
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you had a definite plan of what you
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wanted to do and then this other stuff
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just sort of popped up and uh you you
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were able to Pivot which I think is
00:08:47
really cool I think it's important to
00:08:48
have a plan rather than just like you
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know Bob along hoping someone is going
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to come up but it's yeah it's like
00:08:53
everything's worked out good for you
00:08:54
yeah 100 I think um then often
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guys fall into that trip yeah you know
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they they I mean the only young he might
00:09:04
mentioned 30 31 and before you know it
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you're you're out in the big world and
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it is the it is actually the big world
00:09:11
you kind of like you know scrambling to
00:09:12
trying to you know the last thing you
00:09:14
want to be doing scrambling trying to
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find your feet and understand who you
00:09:17
are and what what you want to do
00:09:20
um hence the reason I knew you know it
00:09:22
wasn't I wasn't going to be on the same
00:09:23
pay picket but I'd put some aside to
00:09:27
know that okay well here's the next four
00:09:28
what the next four years may look like
00:09:30
um but still had that sort of
00:09:32
vulnerability to set one four years time
00:09:33
that their business might not be what it
00:09:36
is yeah
00:09:37
um because in some ways it's I know it
00:09:39
sounds
00:09:40
weird but I still have that in me that
00:09:43
that whole um feeling of vulnerability
00:09:46
and being like man it's almost like a
00:09:48
goal I've got to get to there got to get
00:09:49
oh no we're not quite get in there it's
00:09:51
the same thing with business not meeting
00:09:52
your targets or
00:09:54
um staff doing what we you're asking
00:09:56
them to do or um things like so a lot of
00:09:59
the rugby rugby skills that I've learned
00:10:02
is um has been is transitioned into the
00:10:05
this this real you know the real life in
00:10:07
the real world and what that sort of
00:10:08
looks like and it's been it's been
00:10:10
amazing in fact I I I'd say I've learned
00:10:13
a lot from rugby that people in in the
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business since probably haven't quite
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learned yet
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um which I mean I'm really grateful
00:10:21
about can I just say like I'm just I'm
00:10:24
blown away like we're 10 minutes into
00:10:25
this chat like um
00:10:28
I I always remember you through your
00:10:29
playing career when I'd come to like
00:10:31
your press conferences and things at the
00:10:32
Heritage Hotel or you'd come and come to
00:10:34
our radio show like you were you were
00:10:36
always like articulate and well spoken
00:10:38
but you were kind of shy yeah um now
00:10:40
you're so chatty is that just through
00:10:43
majority
00:10:44
definitely I've made time I've matured
00:10:47
so much from the guy that
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um was pretty reserved and just
00:10:52
answered the you know the the questions
00:10:54
sort of
00:10:55
um I suppose cliches or cliches and you
00:10:58
kind of think far if I had my time I'd
00:11:00
love to do that all over again you know
00:11:02
being where I am now because
00:11:04
you often get caught in the fact that
00:11:06
you are in such a bubble being you know
00:11:08
an all black and you don't want to say
00:11:10
the wrong things because it might get
00:11:11
taken out of contents which it does
00:11:13
but um I think
00:11:17
being exposed to that now I'd be exposed
00:11:19
to public speaking and being exposed to
00:11:21
being on TV
00:11:24
um it's definitely helped your
00:11:24
confidence it's not
00:11:26
um it's crazy because
00:11:28
um you don't learn that stuff it's not
00:11:30
something you can go man I'm gonna well
00:11:31
you can't get a broadcast casting school
00:11:33
but I've had to learn along the way and
00:11:35
that's really built my confidence and
00:11:37
also understanding
00:11:39
okay well I'm I've got to be good at the
00:11:42
stuff that I'm providing if that's
00:11:43
Financial advice you know when you're
00:11:45
qualified uh financial advisor you've
00:11:48
got to be comfortable that you know and
00:11:49
understand that same with Rigby but I
00:11:51
understand what I'm doing with the team
00:11:52
stuff that I'm doing I'm not going to be
00:11:54
able to
00:11:55
um do my part for the team or my part
00:11:58
for my clients if I'm sort of not doing
00:12:01
my homework or not doing my analysis as
00:12:03
they would call it but uh
00:12:05
it's definitely
00:12:07
um I'm a lot more chattier than than I
00:12:09
used to yeah and it's really cool yeah
00:12:13
it's cool I like it I like it good for
00:12:14
you yeah um let's go right back to the
00:12:16
beginning so where were you born so I
00:12:18
was born yeah and you moved to why the
00:12:21
[ __ ] did you move to Southland it's
00:12:23
crazy I know everyone always asks me
00:12:26
that and like to be honest when
00:12:28
sometimes we know I speak when I first
00:12:30
came up they were like man some of them
00:12:32
obviously I've got a lot of winter
00:12:33
Charleston boys and a lot of Polynesians
00:12:35
out there they used to think I spoke
00:12:36
funny
00:12:37
um it wasn't until I realized later what
00:12:38
they are sort of talking to even people
00:12:40
now saying you know I'm trying to speak
00:12:41
like a European but it's absolutely the
00:12:43
way I'm being brought up
00:12:45
um my parents came over on a ballot uh
00:12:47
when I was three years old there was
00:12:49
only myself my two other siblings at the
00:12:52
time
00:12:53
um and obviously you've got to get
00:12:55
sponsored and then you know work was was
00:12:57
needed you needed um you know occupation
00:13:00
mum's family were down in the cargo
00:13:01
their own forestry
00:13:03
freezing Works was massive obviously the
00:13:06
oysters so that was where they ended we
00:13:09
ended up and a bit of support around
00:13:10
obviously mother's family being down
00:13:12
there and yeah they never left I mean
00:13:16
mum's mum's still down there my majority
00:13:18
of my siblings love it down there we go
00:13:20
down there all the time because
00:13:22
um my kids are similar ages to my
00:13:24
brothers kids so it's a wonderful place
00:13:28
but it also has its challenges and that
00:13:31
was part of the reason why I ended up
00:13:32
leaving
00:13:33
what challenges like the club are you
00:13:36
doing climate wise or well yeah it was
00:13:39
but um crossing the road because the
00:13:40
roads are so wide aren't they we only
00:13:42
just came back on the weekend
00:13:44
um on Friday and
00:13:46
um Raji who's works for us he's like man
00:13:48
these roses are so awake you put two
00:13:50
motorways on there yeah
00:13:52
um but I I think I just got too big for
00:13:54
my own shoes I think
00:13:56
um
00:13:57
you know I was obviously
00:13:59
um you know pretty good at rugby I came
00:14:01
through the grades and then when my
00:14:03
parents split out mum was a solo mother
00:14:06
um probably didn't get a real big handle
00:14:08
on I suppose we've held you in the
00:14:10
broker nine
00:14:12
um and then I suppose just
00:14:15
scared of parties and sneaking out and
00:14:17
getting myself into trouble I ended up
00:14:19
um
00:14:21
um fighting a lot I don't know one
00:14:23
because I'm not a fighter at all I'm the
00:14:25
guy in the back that sort of waits for
00:14:27
everyone else what was it was it just
00:14:28
like um like like the the booze or was
00:14:31
it or was it just like um like Teenage
00:14:32
rage yeah I think just just your teenage
00:14:35
stuff going out and partying first 15
00:14:37
parties and then ended up ending up at
00:14:39
McDonald's at the end of the night and
00:14:40
you know and then just stuff starting
00:14:43
and then giving him amongst it so I got
00:14:46
um I went to court for assault and got
00:14:48
discharged without conviction
00:14:50
um did you like when you were still at
00:14:51
school I was still at school so I was in
00:14:53
sixth form
00:14:54
um
00:14:55
and that was probably the big uh turning
00:14:59
point for me because I went from there I
00:15:01
was in sixth form I always remember
00:15:02
being picked up from um
00:15:05
an audio because I was I was actually I
00:15:08
was going to court and the police turned
00:15:09
up
00:15:11
um at home took me in obviously after
00:15:14
the weekend and my man had no idea so I
00:15:17
still remember this day having to
00:15:19
explain to it was kind of happening
00:15:20
going to court
00:15:22
um getting community service for it
00:15:24
which was but it was an eye-opener I
00:15:26
made I made the South and sevens the
00:15:28
men's Squad at that time
00:15:31
um
00:15:32
and then basically you know
00:15:35
I wouldn't say I got myself myself
00:15:37
together I still had that sort of pardon
00:15:39
me because I was so young and yeah you
00:15:42
know getting to that age and your mother
00:15:43
not being able to sort of really control
00:15:45
the sort of teenage boys
00:15:48
um and then it wasn't until I made I
00:15:49
made a New Zealand New Zealand touch
00:15:50
team
00:15:51
and I came up in January uh in
00:15:55
1998 and um
00:15:58
my brother had come out the year before
00:16:00
to go to custom boys he really loved it
00:16:03
um and he thought I should come up to
00:16:05
get away from things and I decided I was
00:16:08
going to oh yeah there's whale there's
00:16:09
trouble in Auckland yeah weightless I
00:16:11
know he's waiting his way bigger boys up
00:16:13
here too mate so I wouldn't have ever
00:16:15
been that confident
00:16:17
um and and um came up the family friend
00:16:19
that I stayed with met the Solomons
00:16:22
um I plan on actually coming up in
00:16:23
January then going back home and then
00:16:24
pleading to my mother not to let me go
00:16:26
yeah
00:16:27
um but he said you're not going home and
00:16:29
it was just kind of like holy [ __ ] I was
00:16:32
just I probably cried in my room
00:16:35
um
00:16:36
every every day before school because I
00:16:38
was just going to the school
00:16:40
I didn't know about it in fact before
00:16:41
school even started I had to finish off
00:16:43
my community service hours at Council
00:16:45
which is where I met my business partner
00:16:47
I mean obviously just mates with uh with
00:16:49
my my big brother but I was cleaning
00:16:51
windows taking the rubbish
00:16:52
um hope helping you know mow the first
00:16:54
15
00:16:56
um field number one pitch but I was I
00:16:59
was really scared I didn't know what I
00:17:01
was
00:17:02
um what I was getting my what I was
00:17:03
getting into I'd sort of lift the
00:17:05
Comforts of being with my mates in there
00:17:07
and that's where everything else flemed
00:17:09
into it and it's the reason why that ten
00:17:11
thousand dollars at South and offered me
00:17:12
at the end of that year
00:17:14
was so important because I was thinking
00:17:15
man I hated it up here so hated it I
00:17:18
wanted to go home I've got ten thousand
00:17:19
dollars now that I've been offered
00:17:20
Auckland only offered me two thousand I
00:17:23
was like man it doesn't you know it's an
00:17:25
obvious choice of where to go
00:17:27
um
00:17:28
but again I had to have hard
00:17:30
conversations again with my mum and also
00:17:32
my brother about
00:17:33
where I'd end up and I chose Auckland or
00:17:36
with a push from them and um
00:17:39
I never looked back it was just crazy
00:17:41
and it's kind of been there
00:17:43
um
00:17:44
in my whole kind of
00:17:46
um I suppose career I've always sort of
00:17:49
fallen off the wagon a little bit or I'm
00:17:51
gonna say wagon falling off the path
00:17:52
jump myself back on falling off again
00:17:54
head face adversity
00:17:57
um been real strong about that
00:18:00
um and then also sort of come back and
00:18:02
just so whilst it's sort of falling into
00:18:04
place there's been a lot of
00:18:06
um hard stuff that's happening along the
00:18:08
way which is I suppose made me who I am
00:18:10
today yeah yeah you have been through
00:18:12
some stuff um yeah I mean we can get
00:18:15
into this later on as much or as little
00:18:16
as you want to but
00:18:18
um
00:18:19
yes so so um so you're in Auckland you
00:18:22
got the two thousand dollars then when
00:18:23
do you like
00:18:25
because I mean you go to school like
00:18:26
kelston there's a there's a lot of good
00:18:28
rugby players here right amen so we were
00:18:30
you just like naturally good we bigger
00:18:32
than most no you went bigger than most
00:18:33
it wasn't big at all you know I still
00:18:35
remember my first game and I was
00:18:36
thinking
00:18:37
some of these guys have got beards and
00:18:40
you're thinking uh there's no what about
00:18:42
me I know man I'm like far out man I how
00:18:46
am I going to survive this I was I was
00:18:47
fortunate enough I had a bit of speed so
00:18:49
I think that really helped I was on the
00:18:51
wing
00:18:52
um so I got myself used to we had a
00:18:54
dominant team like our team was so good
00:18:57
um and then I think all but two guys
00:18:59
from our team became professional rugby
00:19:02
players
00:19:03
um who were some of your teammates
00:19:05
um
00:19:09
um
00:19:13
who else was there that would uh
00:19:15
[ __ ] it's a stack team there's a lot of
00:19:17
this yeah there was a lot man by the top
00:19:19
of my head now um but still guys that I
00:19:21
still get on to I mean they were they
00:19:22
played professional rugby in some way
00:19:25
um you know whether it's an NPC or
00:19:27
overseas as well so
00:19:30
um yeah we had a really talented team
00:19:32
and I kind of just fell into that and
00:19:33
just found my found my groove really
00:19:35
made New Zealand schools
00:19:37
um and being under 19s and 21s and sort
00:19:40
of came through and those were the teams
00:19:41
that I wasn't really making from South
00:19:43
Island because I suppose I wasn't really
00:19:45
exposed to the big boys would come up
00:19:47
and would play them you were like
00:19:49
these guys are big and that's probably
00:19:50
half the reason why you lost yeah you
00:19:52
lost before you even got on to the
00:19:54
picture oh like the mental battle just
00:19:56
intimidation that's it yeah man there's
00:19:57
no one want to tackle these guys so
00:20:01
um yeah that was that was the majority
00:20:03
of the the battle really whereas things
00:20:05
that now they're just they're so similar
00:20:07
now which is helps a lot of guys yeah I
00:20:09
mean when did you first make the All
00:20:10
Blacks who was your coach back then was
00:20:11
it um it was uh Mitch Mitchell uh John
00:20:14
Mitchell in uh Robbie Dean's did you
00:20:19
no no so even like this is everyone
00:20:21
thinks that I didn't I played against
00:20:23
him
00:20:24
um and I'll most often get tagged on the
00:20:27
guy that sort of took over from Kelly
00:20:28
but I wasn't I man I pure luck
00:20:32
um
00:20:33
it was Leon McDonald really and he
00:20:35
became injured in fact I always wondered
00:20:37
I sort of slid across and need him in
00:20:39
the head and got him concussed
00:20:41
um and the and one of the I think it
00:20:43
might have been the final of the or one
00:20:44
of the games during the Super
00:20:46
2003 Super Rugby championship and then
00:20:51
obviously they tried Dougie there the
00:20:53
first game that we lost against England
00:20:54
and then I've got my shot in
00:20:59
um I just I went I played 31 in a row 31
00:21:02
games in a row and it was kind of like
00:21:03
Father this is crazy so I kind of got my
00:21:06
opportunity off there but often you take
00:21:07
the quite a bit that sort of took uh
00:21:10
Kelly's spot when the natural Factor was
00:21:13
not me at all yeah wow so yeah so John
00:21:17
Mitchell um so he's your first coach and
00:21:19
then it was an early in your all black
00:21:21
career I'd forgotten all about this and
00:21:23
I think most people would have so we we
00:21:24
don't even have to go there if you want
00:21:26
but you got in some trouble early on
00:21:27
like there was um you're gonna fight
00:21:29
somewhere and then like public urination
00:21:31
so this is before social media yeah I'm
00:21:33
guessing it was like Myspace or bibo
00:21:35
yeah yeah but no sort of camera phones
00:21:37
so how did that happen was it a big deal
00:21:40
at the time again I'd forgotten all
00:21:41
about it man it's crazy eh because again
00:21:45
when I mentioned the fact that there's
00:21:47
been some challenges along the way but
00:21:48
let's just you know I look back at an
00:21:50
incident in you know well you know
00:21:52
discharged with that conviction that's
00:21:54
still party life from invercargill where
00:21:57
you sort of you know pitch in the year
00:21:58
and had
00:22:00
10 or 20 bucks each and go buy and kick
00:22:02
and just get absolutely mother to store
00:22:03
kind of in me even though I didn't have
00:22:05
10 or 20 bucks
00:22:07
um you know I'd often just like try and
00:22:08
scrounge off my mates yeah
00:22:10
um I'm a little bit older than you but
00:22:12
yeah the keg party thank you your mate's
00:22:14
chipping it every Friday
00:22:15
though I mean if you're five years maybe
00:22:17
I think it's 100 bucks or 90 bucks or
00:22:19
something yeah get a key and you just
00:22:21
sit there and just get absolutely
00:22:23
trolley I mean that was that was the
00:22:25
mentality yeah it was in the garage it
00:22:27
was and um part of that was still on me
00:22:29
but now I've got a whole heap of money
00:22:34
Taco red one not even that man it's all
00:22:37
free you know because you know you walk
00:22:39
in after an aftermatch it's all put on
00:22:41
the year there's a bar that's allocated
00:22:43
you walk in the sponsors products are
00:22:45
all there there's a bar tear Bond so
00:22:47
yeah
00:22:49
before you know it I mean you're just
00:22:51
you're not even spending your own money
00:22:52
but you're just getting mother too so
00:22:54
hero here I was now coming from a
00:22:56
Lifeline there and still a huge huge
00:22:59
part of me I was partying every weekend
00:23:01
and when I seen about my money that was
00:23:02
just that was going to even though
00:23:04
things were free yeah
00:23:06
um
00:23:07
and yeah I got back from the
00:23:09
Commonwealth Games I was just after just
00:23:12
after my 21st birthday highly
00:23:15
intoxicated it's now what's crazy about
00:23:17
this storm is I was sitting in The
00:23:18
Barbers and no word of a lie and my wife
00:23:21
was in there and I was getting like
00:23:22
haircuts with the kids and there's a guy
00:23:24
listening he goes okay those guys it
00:23:26
would have been about a couple of months
00:23:27
ago now
00:23:28
and you see every now and then like oh
00:23:30
yes but then I know who it is and it's
00:23:32
Hi and then he mentioned hey do you
00:23:33
remember me my wife wasn't even around
00:23:35
then I said who are you and he was like
00:23:37
I'm the guy that um helped you out of
00:23:39
the bow and you when you pissed in it
00:23:41
and I was like mate I'm 49 20 yard years
00:23:44
ago and here's a guy here that's just
00:23:46
like I am he's the guy that sort of
00:23:49
um sort of kicked me out I I said did
00:23:52
you piss in the bar yeah I pissed at the
00:23:54
bar so
00:23:57
but when I I looked back and I remember
00:23:59
you know
00:24:00
um I got a call from the manager and I
00:24:02
was like okay okay so when I was a
00:24:03
nobody then really I was like so I was
00:24:06
thinking okay man this there's no way
00:24:07
this is going to come out you know
00:24:08
hopefully I would have might have dodged
00:24:10
the bullet
00:24:12
um brought the NZ Herald and obviously
00:24:14
it's folded in half and was looking at
00:24:15
that oh Nick he's not there going
00:24:17
through going through it or not I was
00:24:18
like [ __ ] I've missed it and then as
00:24:19
I've closed it and then flipped it over
00:24:21
it's on the front page and here's my
00:24:23
face oh so you went straight to the
00:24:24
sports page yeah I was thinking oh [ __ ]
00:24:26
and um
00:24:28
night it was
00:24:30
that was massive because I sort of got
00:24:33
to the part where I'm kind of like hey
00:24:34
I'm like one I was more embarrassed in
00:24:38
in um for my family and especially my
00:24:40
mother uh this was now going to be in
00:24:42
months um you know she's got a massive
00:24:46
um support group down there in terms of
00:24:48
the church and the Memphis church and
00:24:51
all the the old and the old ladies that
00:24:53
we've been talking to her about it and
00:24:55
so it's more kind of that I was still
00:24:56
really young I still 20 I probably
00:24:59
um
00:25:01
yeah they hurt really bad nothing was
00:25:02
like thinking far out you know um just
00:25:05
the girls in shame of letting your
00:25:06
family yeah more than anything else you
00:25:08
know because I still wouldn't my mind I
00:25:10
saw this one is 21ish and I was like
00:25:12
okay cool I've got a I've got to give up
00:25:14
alcohol
00:25:15
um and actually put some uh puts put
00:25:18
some processes and well I hate to use
00:25:20
the word process but put some things in
00:25:23
place so that I don't get
00:25:24
mullered yeah or don't get to that sort
00:25:27
of stage which is did you reach that
00:25:29
decision yourself or were you sort of
00:25:31
sit down with a leadership group no
00:25:32
there wasn't really a leadership group
00:25:33
then as well there's sort of leaders but
00:25:36
I was still relatively pretty young and
00:25:38
I just thought man I've I don't want to
00:25:40
do this again I was more around the
00:25:41
driven about Notting your family down
00:25:43
yeah yeah yeah more than anything else
00:25:45
and then
00:25:47
um and I actually I met uh Leo Malloy
00:25:50
maybe about it would have been about
00:25:52
similar time to win this this is crazy
00:25:54
and he I think he actually owned the bar
00:25:56
he said to me oh I didn't even um he
00:25:58
said that he don't you know about him
00:26:00
many years ago and that was sort of how
00:26:02
he remembered me I was like okay so
00:26:04
that's the last time you remember
00:26:07
um it's yeah it's crazy and I suppose I
00:26:10
started putting things into place to
00:26:12
goals that I really wanted to achieve
00:26:13
from there in part that didn't involve
00:26:16
alcohol just
00:26:17
it gave me a sense to actually
00:26:21
um
00:26:21
have something to to strive for and and
00:26:25
be successful on the on the field and
00:26:27
every Hall you know I think for the very
00:26:29
first time that was probably the very
00:26:30
first time I actually backed myself and
00:26:31
thought man I'll make you a good player
00:26:32
because one I'm on the on the front page
00:26:34
so I didn't think I would be and two I
00:26:38
wanted to show people that others are
00:26:39
good yeah rugby player yeah
00:26:41
I think like what you did beyond that I
00:26:43
mean you know come on 100 tests like you
00:26:45
I mean yeah it's remarkable it feels
00:26:48
like you you set a plan or you set some
00:26:50
goals and you you [ __ ] smash them
00:26:52
mate yeah yeah I did you did you did
00:26:53
really well that was a it was a Flawless
00:26:55
and off the field after that like a
00:26:58
Flawless career yeah uh and as I said I
00:27:01
mean a lot was that was driven by this
00:27:04
the things that you relate to now just
00:27:06
having goals not getting don't go out at
00:27:08
night you know I mean the altercation
00:27:09
when I got you know after the final and
00:27:12
just getting you know dragged out of um
00:27:14
taxi from that and then and and then
00:27:17
having a broken eye socket well yes what
00:27:19
was that one that was 2020 that was 2003
00:27:22
so 2003 so after what final the like
00:27:24
Super Rugby final and so what happened
00:27:29
or whatever it was and um
00:27:31
I was in a box or obviously getting hit
00:27:33
a little bit of tongue-in-cheek to some
00:27:35
of them and
00:27:37
um one of our
00:27:38
um teammates got kicked out so I
00:27:40
followed him out and I sort of got
00:27:41
tongue and cheek at the same time highly
00:27:43
intoxicated jumped in the cab and I got
00:27:45
dragged down the tig and sort of just
00:27:47
dealt to really but it was funny because
00:27:49
it was just well not funny but it was
00:27:51
just crazy because I've gone throughout
00:27:53
this whole period of
00:27:55
um goals and everything and I've got to
00:27:57
that point I'm like just pissed in the
00:27:58
bar the year before I want to eat myself
00:28:00
make sure that I'd get off the piss and
00:28:03
really focus on rapist that did won the
00:28:05
final the following year had been on it
00:28:07
and the first time that I did it this
00:28:09
way everything it wasn't even my [ __ ]
00:28:11
fault yeah
00:28:12
um and then the next day the All Blacks
00:28:14
team was going to be named this is why
00:28:16
it was crazy because I had such a good
00:28:19
season and I didn't really think I was
00:28:21
going to be named and every time I get
00:28:22
asked I know where were you where you
00:28:24
got you know named in the in the uh and
00:28:26
the All Blacks I honestly thought that
00:28:28
they weren't going to pick me because
00:28:29
why did you why did you think that
00:28:31
or urinated in the bath okay because of
00:28:35
the okay yeah get stuck into this you
00:28:38
know they all said we're we're well to
00:28:40
be honest I was you know at home with an
00:28:41
ice pick over my broken eye socket
00:28:43
waiting for my name
00:28:46
so it wasn't so awesome memory it's
00:28:48
still one that that often sort of mixed
00:28:51
emotions exactly but it was man loved
00:28:54
the fact that Mitch and Robbie sort of
00:28:57
had faith in picking me even though you
00:28:59
know
00:28:59
um you know they had the understanding
00:29:01
of what obviously happened
00:29:03
but it almost took that one moment to
00:29:06
not even be selected as an all black and
00:29:08
I'd hate I don't know where what I mean
00:29:10
I still reckon I'd still get back onto
00:29:13
the path and be more motivated to do
00:29:15
anything else but I still sort of really
00:29:17
grateful and thankful that it didn't
00:29:19
eventuate today it wouldn't be where I
00:29:21
am obviously today I feel like it'd be
00:29:23
very different now like I feel like it's
00:29:25
way less tolerance now I like no no sort
00:29:28
of Second Chances so um so the eye
00:29:30
socket thing is that the Line in the
00:29:32
Sand were you like right there it said
00:29:33
I'm not [ __ ] up again why yeah I
00:29:35
didn't I didn't want to there's a Rugby
00:29:37
World Cup yeah I've Loved I mean it's
00:29:39
almost like I just when I got that
00:29:41
opportunity that I mentioned before
00:29:42
about after
00:29:44
um they tested they get a full back I
00:29:46
was like [ __ ] I just absolutely loved it
00:29:48
I didn't really want to
00:29:50
you know they say in the All Blacks so
00:29:52
hard
00:29:53
um to be
00:29:55
um not selected to get into it then I've
00:29:57
obviously be dropped and but I just I it
00:30:00
was everything I I ever dreamed of I
00:30:03
never thought that that's what it felt
00:30:05
like to constantly being picked every
00:30:07
week go out there and play and I really
00:30:08
enjoyed my Rugby it wasn't so much okay
00:30:10
all these things that had happened you
00:30:12
know um I don't want to go down there
00:30:14
again I just loved being an all black I
00:30:16
absolutely love the fact and I
00:30:17
admittedly I didn't think I'd ever would
00:30:19
be Kevin all black it's probably on the
00:30:21
back end of that but I just thought
00:30:23
when you man when you're a with someone
00:30:26
someone get out from south end and every
00:30:28
other it's you just aspire to these
00:30:31
Heroes that you see on TV and you know
00:30:32
Michael Jones of the world and it's real
00:30:34
even dirty the Ronnie Clark cell or in
00:30:37
Auckland and you don't really get to
00:30:39
touch them really and yeah to them play
00:30:41
with them in the in the Auckland sides
00:30:44
and then become this all black yeah just
00:30:46
thinking you pinch yourself because
00:30:48
you've kind of like
00:30:49
this this wasn't supposed to happen you
00:30:52
know it was it was literally a dream to
00:30:54
be an all black but you're in it you
00:30:56
love it so much
00:30:58
um I didn't I didn't want it to end yeah
00:31:00
well and you did pretty well too yeah
00:31:02
yeah
00:31:04
I did I didn't I did I literally did
00:31:07
hang on to right down to the very last
00:31:10
moment which is why I ended up and down
00:31:12
to a chiropractor and getting him to fix
00:31:14
me up yeah yeah
00:31:16
yeah so so who was it was new did your
00:31:20
career overlay with China
00:31:22
no I played sevens of with the big man
00:31:26
um I played against them I still
00:31:28
remember sort of marking them a couple
00:31:30
of times when I've played wing for
00:31:31
Auckland and also for the blues so
00:31:34
um I was more there
00:31:36
um you know the Reuben Thorns was the
00:31:38
the all-black Captain
00:31:40
um a lot of Canterbury guys were around
00:31:42
and in fact there's a lot of Canterbury
00:31:43
in Crusader guys still right
00:31:46
um
00:31:47
yeah so now there's a few of us still
00:31:49
this Carlos Spencer's yeah
00:31:52
um of the world and um obviously Dougie
00:31:54
Hallett who I've mentioned before yeah
00:31:55
yes didn't you um were you enjoying it
00:31:58
quite time you were sitting next time at
00:32:00
uh Jerry Collins Funeral yeah so when I
00:32:03
played my seventh in 2000 the first
00:32:05
sevens in in Wellington that's when I've
00:32:08
really got to meet Jonah for the first
00:32:09
time man I was crazy because this was
00:32:11
kind of like did he buy you a cat
00:32:13
apparently he met people and bought them
00:32:14
cars they'd buy us a car but I often
00:32:17
told the story about because you know
00:32:18
when you're in teachers environment you
00:32:20
can't touch any of the fatty foods and
00:32:22
stuff I just finished the first day of
00:32:24
the tournament John was like to me and
00:32:26
the massiel valance came in we'll go for
00:32:28
a ride go for a feed and we're like oh
00:32:29
yeah Sweden because we're going to KFC
00:32:30
we're like oh you ain't gonna say no
00:32:32
right and
00:32:34
um man it hit us because we lost the
00:32:36
final the next day against
00:32:38
um Fiji but you weren't going to say no
00:32:40
and I I literally wouldn't put it down
00:32:42
to the fact that he took us to KFC and
00:32:44
ate the fatty foods uh I know you're
00:32:47
right I love KFC but who doesn't yeah
00:32:49
but um I'll put it down down to that but
00:32:51
who would who would say nato jono and
00:32:53
he's offering to take you to take you to
00:32:55
KFC in that big boom box of a car thing
00:32:58
that's really the world record the world
00:33:00
record for the loudest cars such a cool
00:33:02
car man crazy crazy guy hey I'm I'm so
00:33:06
glad that he um he he you know passed
00:33:08
away because it'd be just the ultimate
00:33:10
podcast guest like um yeah I'm quite
00:33:13
good friends with um Kelly and uh yeah
00:33:15
the the their careers overlapped quite a
00:33:18
lot and
00:33:18
they'd go to a new town or then they'd
00:33:21
go to like a trick store and they'd buy
00:33:23
like a Boombox for the bus and he was
00:33:25
just like ridic insanely generous so
00:33:28
yeah when he passed away and he fed up
00:33:30
that he wasn't financially
00:33:31
um uh secure like it makes perfect sense
00:33:34
yeah a lot of money he did um
00:33:37
yeah and sad too and I suppose being um
00:33:40
being who he was is very very generous
00:33:43
um down to earth sort of spoke at your
00:33:45
level even though he wasn't he was way
00:33:47
above it in terms of the stardom and who
00:33:50
he was but
00:33:51
um but also financially and it's often
00:33:55
that's the sort of stuff we kind of see
00:33:57
now some of the guys particularly the
00:33:59
Maori and Pacific island boys which I've
00:34:00
been really big on and the financial
00:34:02
space is making them understand
00:34:04
something I just
00:34:07
not just your money but sort of how it
00:34:09
all works yeah why you've got a mortgage
00:34:11
in the mortgages then what it looks like
00:34:12
what interest rates are how you get
00:34:14
because one day it's going to finish
00:34:16
and yeah there's always the only
00:34:18
guarantee isn't it yeah no one's going
00:34:19
to be there to tell you to actually say
00:34:21
well this is what it is you need to
00:34:23
refix your mortgage and and to why and
00:34:25
some guys have even ran up and said they
00:34:27
want to go to an auction and they're
00:34:28
like well have you got a pre-approval
00:34:30
and he's like oh what's that
00:34:32
um so it's crazy
00:34:34
um where does your literacy come from
00:34:37
you mentioned you bought you you were
00:34:39
telling some of the other guys about
00:34:40
buying houses and you had a house by the
00:34:42
time you're 20 or something yeah I just
00:34:43
I kind of just jumped in and did it and
00:34:45
then sort of asked questions whilst I
00:34:47
was a little bit quiet I sort of
00:34:48
understood what they kind of looked like
00:34:50
it helps when you've got mates that are
00:34:51
in
00:34:53
um and that sort of space to bounce you
00:34:55
know questions off as well but once you
00:34:57
understand
00:34:58
[Music]
00:34:59
um
00:35:00
what the banks are looking for and the
00:35:01
jargon that they're talking funny that's
00:35:05
often the case they're just talking oh
00:35:06
weeper Jag and
00:35:08
um when you strip it back it's really
00:35:10
really simple
00:35:11
um but sort of explaining it in a
00:35:13
simplistic way yeah
00:35:15
um I've had to read up a lot
00:35:17
um on sort of head but also experience
00:35:19
experience and stuffing things up uh not
00:35:23
quite doing your own stuff properly
00:35:25
um have been to that but also listening
00:35:27
I think
00:35:29
um we've got a really good team in there
00:35:31
just we just bounce sort of stuff off
00:35:33
because often it's where you learn the
00:35:34
most from someone else's mistakes when
00:35:36
they've worn some houses up um
00:35:40
um you know opportunity or um saying
00:35:44
it's Unfortunately they haven't quite
00:35:45
quite right and so it's just more around
00:35:47
that just the experience around a lot of
00:35:49
reading what's the coolest thing you've
00:35:51
done with your money did you manage to
00:35:53
buy your parents a house or anything or
00:35:54
I have a really cool so yeah I was I did
00:35:58
that in 2007 188 000 it cost me
00:36:04
yeah it was a lot of money at the time
00:36:07
when I was thinking to myself I'd
00:36:08
already just support purchase my house
00:36:11
um for 250 000 out Western Newland
00:36:16
so that's it I mean that time it was
00:36:19
crazy so um it's probably the best thing
00:36:21
I've done yeah that's really cool so it
00:36:24
was uh you bought her a house outright
00:36:26
or did you pay off your mortgage or no I
00:36:28
I got to a stage where I started using
00:36:31
money a bit better so using the banks
00:36:33
money to buy other things using equity
00:36:35
in it and going but it's a really
00:36:37
high-end thing to be able to understand
00:36:38
because you can do it that way my
00:36:40
often you hear my people or my brothers
00:36:42
and they say man now I did I did I hate
00:36:45
they got paid off got to pay adult paid
00:36:47
off as soon as I paid it off then what
00:36:48
but yeah it's good and bad debt there is
00:36:50
yeah so you're using actually good
00:36:51
ditability to
00:36:54
um uh to get you to another another
00:36:56
place and in the end that the safety is
00:36:58
as long as you don't lose your job
00:37:00
um you know that you can always sell one
00:37:02
off to pay for another one yeah um so
00:37:04
that's kind of how I've sort of geared
00:37:06
things up and generated sort of uh that
00:37:08
portfolio
00:37:10
um
00:37:11
but again it's just about learning sort
00:37:13
of how that works and
00:37:15
um you often get people asking about
00:37:18
equity and saying oh well I've got this
00:37:19
much Equity this makes you agree that
00:37:21
you've got to understand how the banks
00:37:22
use equity yeah and that's that's
00:37:24
probably the things that we like to
00:37:25
explain I love explaining it stuff yes
00:37:27
you can use
00:37:29
um I often use my own situation
00:37:32
um because it I just feels I relate to
00:37:35
it better and I I I can explain it
00:37:37
better because I've been through it so
00:37:39
that experience is is massive and
00:37:41
valuable yeah I love drawing on that
00:37:43
yeah you found a real passionate like I
00:37:45
I can see your eyes light up when you
00:37:48
talk about like the money and the
00:37:49
nuances of the finance markets so so you
00:37:52
um did you surprise your mum with the
00:37:54
house or was she expecting it or they
00:37:57
actually lived in Aussie so I was always
00:37:58
something that I wanted to do
00:38:00
um and then they moved back and so it
00:38:03
was a little bit of a surprise but
00:38:05
always something I suppose I've spoken
00:38:07
to her about about buying them a place
00:38:11
um
00:38:12
which is yeah she she lived in there for
00:38:14
years until last year and then sort of
00:38:17
moved out now my brother lives in it
00:38:19
um
00:38:21
but they're they you know mum's always
00:38:23
appreciative of that they probably can
00:38:25
do their own house they've actually
00:38:25
moved on to another house because I
00:38:27
bought it and bought that lift and then
00:38:28
I've got my other brother reading it but
00:38:30
not good advice to have a family living
00:38:32
in your own in your own yeah it doesn't
00:38:33
get you much healed at all yeah well
00:38:35
I've um yeah I'm lucky enough I've
00:38:37
managed to buy my mum an apartment so
00:38:39
she lives in uh she lives in Gray Lynn
00:38:40
and uh
00:38:42
it's still in my name I'm guessing
00:38:44
you're it's your mum yeah yeah yeah
00:38:45
um but I I was sort of thinking um oh
00:38:47
it's a good retirement thing and you
00:38:49
know mum can live rent free because it's
00:38:50
costing me a bit of money now but you
00:38:52
know whatever but it occurred to me that
00:38:54
we went overseas recently me and Mum and
00:38:55
so I'm 50 she's 71.
00:38:58
she's still gonna be alive at 90. so I'm
00:39:02
going to be like well and truly retired
00:39:04
by the time she can't accept that so I
00:39:07
can't rely on that oh you will be by
00:39:09
that time hopefully that house market
00:39:10
sort of just what they are crazy at the
00:39:12
moment they've gone ballistic they might
00:39:15
have doubled by the time you're right so
00:39:17
you might you might be okay and
00:39:18
hopefully you won't have too much too
00:39:19
much debt you can probably live off yeah
00:39:21
no it's all good
00:39:23
um I can say how many World Cups did you
00:39:25
do three three were you were you on the
00:39:27
one where we got beaten by France and
00:39:29
the yeah what you were saying was that
00:39:31
2007 2007. yeah yeah that was awful that
00:39:35
sucked so that was the semi quarterfinal
00:39:37
semi-final quarterfinal yeah so and they
00:39:40
just everything everything went lucky
00:39:42
for them yeah well I'm not lucky I just
00:39:44
we just like bounce on the balls oh man
00:39:46
we pee so bad
00:39:47
I've never watched that final at
00:39:49
quarterfinal I haven't got the I just
00:39:52
haven't got it in me to watch it
00:39:54
um it still hurts like a lot mainly
00:39:57
because you're like sorry I've still got
00:39:59
to go home
00:40:00
I've got to go back to New Zealand and
00:40:01
then they had the old okay well this we
00:40:03
didn't have flights here's the first
00:40:05
group that I'll go and go please don't
00:40:06
read my name out please don't read my
00:40:08
name out
00:40:09
I was lucky I was on the second I was on
00:40:11
the second list because I was going oh
00:40:12
good luck guys uh you guys gonna get
00:40:13
hammered when you get home from the
00:40:15
public but
00:40:16
it was a crazy time we just I mean
00:40:19
everything I mean we've often talked
00:40:21
about it a lot about the things that we
00:40:22
didn't quite but I think a lot of the
00:40:23
stuff that we didn't get quite right we
00:40:25
got it right in 2011.
00:40:28
well this is this is the thing of of
00:40:30
discovered in life like um your failure
00:40:32
is actually not a bad not a bad thing
00:40:33
like you learn you learn nothing from
00:40:35
your wins but you learn everything from
00:40:37
your from your your fails 100 and my
00:40:39
life has been like it has been like I've
00:40:42
failed so many times but I as long as
00:40:44
you get back up let's that's been my
00:40:47
biggest driver like man you can be in it
00:40:49
and man it's so tough a lot of the stuff
00:40:50
that you have gone through and even my
00:40:52
wife talks about it I don't know so
00:40:55
thick skin but you kind of get to a
00:40:58
level of Tolerance where you can you
00:40:59
know be thick skinned about the mistakes
00:41:01
that you've made and they're you know
00:41:02
obviously being in the public eye
00:41:05
um it comes you know 100 times more
00:41:08
because you're in New Zealand in a small
00:41:10
country of 5 million but everyone knows
00:41:11
who you are and what sort of happened so
00:41:13
you have to come a bit more uh resilient
00:41:16
in terms of those mistakes that you do
00:41:17
make but man I'm a big believer in
00:41:19
you've got to learn from that you know I
00:41:22
I often look at it now and see
00:41:24
um you know especially when you're
00:41:25
playing guys that are playing now with a
00:41:28
um I sort of um I suppose judge them on
00:41:31
can you bounce back rather than you know
00:41:33
not being able to bounce back for
00:41:35
something for a mistake that you might
00:41:37
have made off the field because I you
00:41:39
know guys and people do that you're so
00:41:42
much more respect for them because it's
00:41:43
a hard damn thing to do because it's so
00:41:45
easy to sort of curl up and say I'm not
00:41:46
sweet
00:41:47
um I'm a failure you're not there's
00:41:49
failure there's a real real massive in
00:41:51
terms of the growth in yourself and your
00:41:53
personal growth and whether you can come
00:41:54
back from those yeah I agree have you
00:41:56
always been resilient or do you think um
00:41:58
the [ __ ] you've been through over the
00:41:59
years has made you is that they're
00:42:02
saying what doesn't kill you makes you
00:42:03
stronger no man it's it's crazy it
00:42:05
probably has admittedly I would have
00:42:07
loved to have not had so many fuck-ups
00:42:09
but um
00:42:11
it has it really has and I think if you
00:42:15
draw back at the stuff you know my my
00:42:17
mum's as big and I've always sort of
00:42:20
it's
00:42:21
be my biggest driver you know when I've
00:42:24
sort of fallen off it's like oh [ __ ]
00:42:26
um it's not so much about me as sort of
00:42:28
how do I make it right so you know when
00:42:30
you're turning up at home and mum's
00:42:31
suddenly a smiley face telling you how
00:42:33
much she loves you you're like you know
00:42:35
deep down inside I know you're really
00:42:36
hurting but yeah that's been
00:42:39
um I suppose my biggest striving to try
00:42:41
and get back on and succeed yeah by the
00:42:43
way you you talk about fuck-ups like
00:42:45
there's been heaps of them there hasn't
00:42:47
though like from an outsider's
00:42:49
perspective at least it seems like it's
00:42:50
been a I mean it's a heck of a career
00:42:53
like we all know that but it feels like
00:42:54
the like indiscretions mistakes call
00:42:56
them whatever you want a like a you know
00:42:58
yeah really I know when you like the um
00:43:02
yeah the urinating a bar in the eye
00:43:04
socket thing like at the time it
00:43:06
probably feels like it's your entire
00:43:07
world but then you look in the rear view
00:43:09
like you know 20 years on now whatever
00:43:10
it is but it sort of feels like nothing
00:43:13
right yeah I made it does it's still
00:43:15
it's still a part of me that goes
00:43:17
[ __ ] it does
00:43:19
I mean it's always stuff that I've got
00:43:21
to get better at and it's probably the
00:43:23
alcohol
00:43:24
um you know it was but and a lot of my
00:43:25
stuff's always been public as well
00:43:27
there's the and the latest one and
00:43:30
um and Cardiff in terms of the sexual
00:43:32
assault stuff I mean it's that was again
00:43:35
[ __ ] after midnight
00:43:38
um yeah let's Okay since since you've
00:43:40
brought that up let's let's talk about
00:43:42
that because
00:43:43
um
00:43:43
yeah I I really felt for you through
00:43:46
this this whole thing so I woke up on a
00:43:48
Sunday morning here in New Zealand to
00:43:49
took my phone of flight mode and the
00:43:51
first pop-up I got was like staff or NZ
00:43:53
Herald and
00:43:54
um Mills arrested and then there's this
00:43:55
footage on TV so you're playing a game
00:43:57
there yep uh what club what team so I
00:44:00
was playing for uh connect in in Ireland
00:44:02
right and we just played the card of
00:44:05
Blues
00:44:06
um
00:44:08
and yeah we were we're out that night
00:44:10
yes
00:44:12
like it's it's crazy and this is
00:44:15
um just crazy how things panned out
00:44:18
um
00:44:19
would have been just your normal sort of
00:44:20
Night Out it will be you know yeah again
00:44:23
intoxicated and getting back and it was
00:44:25
well it wasn't until about a month later
00:44:27
that I we went back to play
00:44:30
um we went back to actually
00:44:33
Gloucester to play them and that's when
00:44:36
I got picked up I just injured myself
00:44:38
and I was walking off the field and
00:44:41
I walked off
00:44:43
um after the end of the game and then
00:44:44
these police through there and I was
00:44:47
like oh okay sweet I thought you did you
00:44:49
like your boots on my boots
00:44:51
I was limping off and I was just kind of
00:44:54
like [ __ ] um
00:44:56
got off and I just thought it was a
00:44:58
practical joke I thought like here's
00:45:01
um these cops and I go no no you need to
00:45:03
sit down and I was like I sit down just
00:45:04
outside change room then I like you
00:45:06
can't even actually I couldn't even
00:45:07
actually grab anything they said you
00:45:09
need to come with us and I was like I
00:45:10
stole
00:45:11
thought they were bullshitting me and
00:45:13
then it wasn't until now and they said
00:45:16
yeah we're gonna take down to the
00:45:18
station I was like okay sweet I might
00:45:20
just grab a jacket so I've trained our
00:45:22
baggage me and grab me a jacket I went
00:45:24
outside and as soon as I got outside the
00:45:26
camera was really like just waiting yeah
00:45:29
and I think when I look back in I was
00:45:31
that was probably the most guttering
00:45:33
part
00:45:34
um
00:45:35
I had no idea were you angry or just sad
00:45:37
or confused I didn't I had no idea what
00:45:40
the heck was going on I had no idea even
00:45:42
when so we went down and they took me to
00:45:43
the police station
00:45:44
I think later on I was really angry
00:45:46
because one the club knew was happening
00:45:49
yeah and two
00:45:52
so did so did the rest of the uh the
00:45:54
broadcasting the meeting decided to no
00:45:57
and I had no idea what the heck was
00:45:58
going on furthermore man my league was
00:46:01
aching so bad it wasn't funny mate but I
00:46:03
I went down there process and they had
00:46:05
to take me from Gloucester to Cardiff
00:46:08
still had no idea I had an absolutely no
00:46:10
idea what was going on I was in the back
00:46:12
of the petty wagon so you're running
00:46:13
through your mind what could I have done
00:46:14
yeah what am I what's what's going on
00:46:17
they didn't really say anything
00:46:19
um I got there this is during the 2015
00:46:22
Rugby World Cup I got there and Light
00:46:26
we went and started doing
00:46:28
um the paperwork they might have
00:46:30
mentioned it yeah I can't remember now
00:46:32
but they were really friendly talking to
00:46:34
me about the Rugby World Cup and stuff
00:46:36
like that and I was just in a different
00:46:37
world I just kind of like what the
00:46:39
heck's going on they gave me this book
00:46:40
to read about rights and stuff then they
00:46:42
put me in a cell and I was like so it
00:46:45
would have been about
00:46:46
in close to midnight I just come well no
00:46:50
it was at like 9 30 9 30 finished game
00:46:52
it took me to the glass Gloucester
00:46:54
Police Station done all the stuff there
00:46:56
put me in the Paddy working by the time
00:46:58
I got to
00:46:59
Carter if it was midnight put me in a
00:47:02
cell and then left me there
00:47:04
basically left me there
00:47:07
um h8 no they gave me let me have a
00:47:08
shower and put my Rugby gear back on
00:47:11
left me there
00:47:13
um and no one
00:47:15
came until about four o'clock the next
00:47:17
afternoon the next day oh my God so I
00:47:20
was just sitting there going I didn't
00:47:21
know what was going on
00:47:23
um
00:47:24
no contact with anyone else other than I
00:47:27
don't even think maybe perhaps it made
00:47:29
me a sandwich
00:47:30
and then I got then the lawyer someone
00:47:34
got a hold of a lawyer for me
00:47:36
and that was it it was all like I wasn't
00:47:39
allowed to talk about it
00:47:41
um went back what do they tell you what
00:47:45
do they tell you you're being charged
00:47:46
with no six years old that was it um but
00:47:48
no further details no nothing further
00:47:50
actually I mean they you know he came in
00:47:52
with me we went into an uh this was
00:47:54
about
00:47:55
um three three o'clock went into one of
00:47:57
those interviewing rooms and they asked
00:47:58
me to watch a video
00:48:00
and I was kind of like okay I'm watching
00:48:02
a video if I didn't see Jack Jack I
00:48:04
couldn't even tell you what I seen in
00:48:05
the video but all it was was
00:48:08
um uh female had sort of backed into me
00:48:12
and I turned around and just sort of
00:48:13
gave her a push
00:48:16
um and you could you couldn't even see
00:48:17
that side of it I mean I made out that I
00:48:20
that I'd given a sort of a
00:48:22
um but all you've seen was who back into
00:48:24
me there was basically all you could see
00:48:26
and then there was cameras going up so
00:48:29
you can see me going up the stairs
00:48:30
talking to the bouncers there's a police
00:48:32
woman there
00:48:33
outside which I shook hands with them um
00:48:35
and she was just there talking to the
00:48:37
bouncers
00:48:38
um
00:48:39
and that was all and that was all it was
00:48:42
that they sort of had neither see like
00:48:43
heavy samples of the um her pants had
00:48:46
been taken away and like this is a month
00:48:48
for later you know they were arrested me
00:48:50
out a month later so you would have
00:48:51
thought okay we've taken them away
00:48:52
straight after the
00:48:54
um alleged incident surely you would
00:48:56
have something out but
00:48:59
um and then you weren't allowed to talk
00:49:01
about it and this was the biggest
00:49:04
um
00:49:05
uh I suppose
00:49:08
we had to be you know that resilient
00:49:10
thick skin because one I was going
00:49:12
through marriage separation with the ex
00:49:13
my son was back here she was playing
00:49:15
real
00:49:17
um no not really amicable and stuff and
00:49:19
so there's all that crap going on I was
00:49:22
stuck in a um stuck in a hotel trying to
00:49:24
sort of say
00:49:26
um well trying to explain what was kind
00:49:28
of happening but then you weren't
00:49:29
allowed to talk about it
00:49:31
um so then come back and go far out and
00:49:35
the problem you have you know the
00:49:36
justice system you know right up until
00:49:39
you know you're you actually told to go
00:49:41
back you can't it's no Santa then you go
00:49:44
back and they try to put in the
00:49:45
Magistrate Court which is basically a
00:49:47
court beer system where you come in
00:49:49
you're in front of a judge that's there
00:49:50
for the day so I had to I came back to
00:49:53
New Zealand
00:49:55
um like we're sorry I went back to
00:49:56
Ireland and you know to wait around
00:49:57
until the next date which was
00:49:59
effectively after the end of the season
00:50:00
so it would have been about another four
00:50:01
or five months after which I'd come back
00:50:03
home to New Zealand then they were still
00:50:05
looking through stuff and then they
00:50:07
wanted me to fly all the way back to
00:50:08
plead guilty or not guilty in this
00:50:10
Magistrate Court which is basically
00:50:11
people have been done for drunk driving
00:50:13
they stand in front of a judge and the
00:50:15
judge basically says Ah you know he'll
00:50:17
slip you with a fine so they wanted me
00:50:19
to actually plead not to plead guilty
00:50:21
for this mess of ramifications of course
00:50:24
there is it's huge you're not just
00:50:25
you're not just saying in the and what
00:50:27
they've got it's kind of like I don't
00:50:29
understand why I'm actually here you
00:50:31
know so yeah also you'd never plead
00:50:34
guilty to something that you did not do
00:50:35
exactly no and that was that was that
00:50:38
hurt the most and there was a lot of
00:50:40
people around at the time there where I
00:50:42
just
00:50:43
they started scrambling to within that
00:50:45
team environment and that because they
00:50:47
were out with me and they didn't want to
00:50:48
get implicated yeah yeah like almost to
00:50:51
the fact that they wrote letters based
00:50:53
on China's supporter but all of the
00:50:55
leaders were was kind of being
00:50:57
supportive of your own case which really
00:50:58
pissed me off oh I can imagine um
00:51:01
imagine but yeah it's um yeah Lance
00:51:03
Armstrong's got the saying he talks
00:51:05
about
00:51:05
um yeah when [ __ ] hits the fan people
00:51:08
either lean in or lean out and I talked
00:51:10
about
00:51:11
um this with Matthew Ridge when he was
00:51:12
on the podcast last year and he goes he
00:51:14
goes not many people lean in
00:51:17
you'll really find out who you're who
00:51:19
you're mating you do man you do um
00:51:21
so I ended up going back and obviously I
00:51:26
there's no way so you they either say
00:51:28
well you just maybe that's what's going
00:51:29
to happen or you go and you get in front
00:51:31
of a but it's going to be a long process
00:51:34
because you're going to have to be in
00:51:35
front of the jury and it could but I
00:51:39
knew I was innocent yeah that's the
00:51:40
whole bloody thing there's no way you
00:51:42
know I was going to say I'm guilty for
00:51:44
doing what for nothing and I didn't
00:51:46
actually do anything you know and then
00:51:49
um
00:51:54
but the biggest thing is the whole in
00:51:57
New Zealand of looking at this yeah
00:51:59
sexual assault it's so bad it's like a
00:52:01
they it's like you know you've you've
00:52:04
been painted now as this guy sex
00:52:06
offender yeah and
00:52:07
um I know there's the uh the saying in
00:52:10
legal circles you know and it's an
00:52:11
essential proven guilty but it's not
00:52:12
really it's nice especially here yeah
00:52:16
um you never are and that's what I
00:52:19
suppose
00:52:31
there's nothing in there for me even
00:52:33
though all this [ __ ] was going on in the
00:52:34
background and assuming it um
00:52:38
um so yeah I stuck it out I was
00:52:40
um I ended up signing for Italy I'd
00:52:42
already signed for Italy before this all
00:52:44
happened and they were really good the
00:52:45
Italians say they looked after me
00:52:49
um
00:52:50
told them what had sort of happened and
00:52:52
then they they were really good
00:52:53
fantastic and then until that day we
00:52:55
went into court where they basically
00:52:57
threw the charges out and it was just
00:52:58
kind of that whole process in
00:53:02
um what you had to go through especially
00:53:04
my son my son was only like
00:53:06
704 but again it's like you know I often
00:53:09
go back in as much as I'm pissed off
00:53:11
about the whole system and what sort of
00:53:13
they've they've got you into to the
00:53:15
things ahead to the people they're doing
00:53:17
at the end of the day I made those
00:53:18
choices to to put yourself in a
00:53:20
vulnerable vulnerable position like what
00:53:23
what do you mean though what like what
00:53:24
choices did you make oh I think just not
00:53:27
just being out yeah I think because part
00:53:30
of me
00:53:31
has always sort of wanted to phase
00:53:33
myself out and be sort of anonymous you
00:53:36
almost get to a stage where you're like
00:53:38
you are you're thinking you are
00:53:40
anonymously out there because of your
00:53:41
mindset whereas in fact you never are
00:53:43
you absolutely never are regardless of
00:53:45
whether you know you're
00:53:48
um you know whether you're a
00:53:49
professional rugby player or not things
00:53:51
you do will always will always become
00:53:53
yeah no I mean they're saying so I've
00:53:56
almost already jumped into that mold
00:53:59
um so when you jump into that mode
00:54:00
you've got to have that in the back of
00:54:02
your mind that you know when you do that
00:54:03
do do go out that you are a Target
00:54:07
um and there's things that come in no
00:54:09
matter whether you like it or not that's
00:54:11
just that's just the case
00:54:13
but again it's just I I just can't
00:54:16
believe that um
00:54:19
you go through there like I've gone
00:54:21
through you know a lot of adversity in
00:54:24
my life a lot of stuff I was some of
00:54:26
them bought on by myself others that
00:54:29
should never have damn happened
00:54:31
um but you've got to be pretty thick
00:54:33
skin but that's probably made me who I
00:54:35
am today like a little confident like
00:54:37
you're saying what I've done but I also
00:54:40
understand too
00:54:42
um you know I've got three boys now I
00:54:45
understand the consequences that come
00:54:46
with with a lot of my decisions and also
00:54:49
enjoying in terms of the uh the ripple
00:54:51
effect on top yeah yeah absolutely and
00:54:53
the boys will never know that but the
00:54:54
thing is
00:54:56
fencing it's always there too yeah so
00:54:59
um you know my boys will be living in a
00:55:02
life of internet and Googling a name and
00:55:05
things coming up and so you know we're
00:55:08
always mindful that we've got to be
00:55:10
upfront and honest with the police
00:55:12
um because it's just this this day and
00:55:15
age is a lot different to when you know
00:55:18
the days that I was growing up in good
00:55:19
old invercargill with the wide roads
00:55:22
um so how do you how did you like
00:55:25
navigate your way through that that
00:55:26
period like waiting for the trial where
00:55:28
were you crying a lot were you just
00:55:30
angry
00:55:32
um like I just can't imagine I'm trying
00:55:34
to put myself in your shoes I can't
00:55:35
imagine how frustrating it was I didn't
00:55:37
I didn't cry nothing to cry about I am I
00:55:41
am I am an emotional person there's
00:55:42
nothing to cry about I was I was more
00:55:44
determined if like this is going to be
00:55:46
all right I knew him 100 percent
00:55:49
this
00:55:50
was going to be okay I had a lot of
00:55:53
support good support back home in New
00:55:54
Zealand with you know my mates down uh
00:55:56
Chiefs manager with the old Chiefs man
00:55:59
just sorry we're really good friends if
00:56:00
Joe was really there even though she was
00:56:02
um
00:56:03
I think it was good being away from New
00:56:04
Zealand
00:56:05
I'd hate to think what my son was going
00:56:08
through because held was he at the time
00:56:10
uh what was it 2014 so nine years ago uh
00:56:17
so he would have been four or five or
00:56:18
five
00:56:19
six actually yeah so like he's probably
00:56:23
young enough to not be too impacted yeah
00:56:25
not yeah exactly but still
00:56:28
um so I think to help being in Italian
00:56:29
they're telling us were wonderful it's a
00:56:31
wonderful place you are basically
00:56:33
anonymous because no one really knows
00:56:34
rugby bit
00:56:36
um so that definitely helped but I think
00:56:39
the frustrating part is that I knew the
00:56:41
day would come
00:56:43
um it was just win you know when would I
00:56:46
be able to tell my story and I haven't
00:56:47
really spoken about it I've only spoken
00:56:49
about it once since all today
00:56:51
I haven't really touched on what I've
00:56:53
seen in that video and some of the
00:56:55
things that I did see that perhaps I
00:56:57
might want to bring out one day
00:57:00
um that's that's the real Annoying part
00:57:04
for me
00:57:05
um
00:57:06
that you know when you say little people
00:57:08
lean in and lean out
00:57:10
um you know the people that link didn't
00:57:12
lent out had reasons as to why which is
00:57:16
um
00:57:17
it [ __ ] me off at the time but I've um
00:57:19
you know I've got a long memory and I'm
00:57:21
always one to really forgive but you
00:57:24
never forget though I'll never
00:57:26
um and that's what really annoyed me at
00:57:27
the time too you know whilst all this
00:57:29
was going on
00:57:32
but that's part of life you know it is
00:57:33
it's part of
00:57:35
um
00:57:37
understanding people and sort of working
00:57:40
your way through them being hardened
00:57:42
about it the one that's kind of and I've
00:57:44
always had that I don't know what what
00:57:46
what it is because of perhaps it's from
00:57:49
my upbringing and being always that
00:57:50
little boy that used to tag along with
00:57:52
my tag along my older brother and he
00:57:54
used to always sort of
00:57:55
yeah
00:57:56
sort of leave me behind and I was always
00:57:59
resilient in terms of their sort of beat
00:58:00
me up every now and then just sort of
00:58:02
stuff it's always been in me so yeah but
00:58:05
you don't you don't want to be um you
00:58:06
don't want to be too hard and you don't
00:58:08
want to become cynical you don't want to
00:58:10
become
00:58:10
that person but yeah mate I I don't know
00:58:14
how you navigated your way through that
00:58:16
through that period did you see a
00:58:18
therapist I have any counseling or
00:58:19
anything no no I didn't I didn't
00:58:21
um oh man I didn't really I just I
00:58:26
I didn't I don't even really know if I
00:58:28
really really talked too much about it I
00:58:29
think
00:58:30
Joe and I were over there and just sort
00:58:32
of I navigated my way through the I
00:58:34
think a lot of me knew
00:58:37
what had happened a lot of me knew that
00:58:39
I was it was going to be all right even
00:58:41
though at the time when you're sitting
00:58:42
in there you think [ __ ] I don't even
00:58:43
know how I don't even know how something
00:58:45
anyone could think like that you know
00:58:46
what I mean
00:58:48
um can you because what do you say in
00:58:50
the in the CCTV thing you you pushed it
00:58:52
what do you mean you pushed it
00:58:54
um
00:58:55
well she was in your personal space yeah
00:58:58
I I you literally I'm not like a shove
00:59:00
no no no no no
00:59:02
um but just an excuse me yeah yeah so
00:59:05
there's a there is there's a a pillar
00:59:08
there and she's basically turning around
00:59:09
and walked into me and bunt me into
00:59:11
another person and then I've kind of
00:59:14
like
00:59:17
it wasn't really really a push and then
00:59:21
she's turned around and we'll kind of
00:59:23
just see it or looks like it said things
00:59:27
um but then I ended up getting kicked
00:59:28
out but even the even
00:59:31
um
00:59:32
yeah sorry we walked out even in the
00:59:36
statements and stuff so you're trying to
00:59:37
piece all this together because you're
00:59:39
kind of like well here's some person say
00:59:42
this and another guy saying that and
00:59:43
we've walked out there's no
00:59:46
complaints to a police officer who was
00:59:48
right upstairs
00:59:50
I mean I'm not a conspiracy therapist
00:59:53
but at the time I'm just kind of like
00:59:55
there's just nothing and even when I was
00:59:57
looking at you can vaguely even see
01:00:00
me in the bar I when I first looked at
01:00:03
it they only showed me it twice and I
01:00:05
first looked at it I was kind of like I
01:00:07
don't even know what I'm looking for or
01:00:09
where I where I'm at
01:00:11
um
01:00:13
and that's that was basically it
01:00:15
um I wouldn't even say it was even a
01:00:19
push
01:00:20
um
01:00:22
that's the most disappointing part about
01:00:24
it was just kind of like
01:00:26
and there's just nothing you know
01:00:29
um
01:00:29
but again when I look at look at it I
01:00:32
think
01:00:33
that got themselves into that much now
01:00:35
that it made
01:00:37
um that it made what they had to it's
01:00:39
like you had to go through it you know
01:00:41
there wasn't but even the month
01:00:43
before they even
01:00:45
did all that you know you've got to be
01:00:47
surely you've got to know that
01:00:50
you've got to have something you know it
01:00:51
was like I mean the whole time was
01:00:53
almost like it's funny because I look
01:00:55
back and say when I'm in the pot when
01:00:58
I'm in the cell and I'm sitting in there
01:01:00
for the whole time that I was in there
01:01:01
that I was almost like they try to
01:01:04
exhaust the crap out of me to see do
01:01:07
something
01:01:09
um which I was kind of like this is so
01:01:10
weird but man you had I had a lot of
01:01:12
time to think about
01:01:15
so much [ __ ] because I didn't know what
01:01:17
was going on uh so you're trying to run
01:01:19
through everything even slightly better
01:01:21
I didn't even know what the heck is
01:01:23
doing there you were in the single been
01:01:24
people yelling because it's a weekend
01:01:25
right and so they're all yelling they're
01:01:27
all intoxicated and they're like [ __ ]
01:01:29
I'm just I'm sure it was just a bit of
01:01:31
torture that they sort of sent me yeah
01:01:33
they gave me just to very say mate
01:01:35
they're just going to talk to you for a
01:01:36
little bit and then
01:01:37
by four o'clock the next in the
01:01:40
afternoon the next day we might even try
01:01:42
and see if we can get anything out of
01:01:43
here
01:01:45
um yeah that must have been such a so
01:01:47
you see you go to court that must have
01:01:48
been a nerve-wracking experience because
01:01:50
I I you you know
01:01:52
unequivocally that um you've done
01:01:54
nothing wrong but there must be like a
01:01:56
little bit of you that thinks well you
01:01:57
know maybe you know stranger things have
01:01:59
happened no it's a funny thing because
01:02:00
like there's two phases to the court
01:02:03
stuff so you have that and we plead not
01:02:04
guilty then there's another court date
01:02:06
yeah you come out and you're in front of
01:02:08
them so you you know going through that
01:02:10
whole period then there's another court
01:02:12
date where you're basically saying
01:02:13
you're not guilty again to then for them
01:02:15
to work out you know
01:02:17
um you know how the jewelry stuff's
01:02:19
going to work or what happens
01:02:21
so the second time we've been in there
01:02:23
by the time we sort of got there they
01:02:24
were like now leaving's
01:02:26
gonna be dropped and you're going to
01:02:29
just wasted all that time so I was going
01:02:31
in there going okay here's it's not
01:02:33
we're not doing it today
01:02:34
it is going to be another time where
01:02:36
it's all going to happen and that's when
01:02:38
the public will understand and know and
01:02:41
people will know that I haven't done
01:02:43
anything you know and so
01:02:46
because it was cut short it's probably
01:02:48
you know unexpected and they didn't tell
01:02:50
me until we're about to sort of
01:02:51
literally go in we're like hey hey these
01:02:53
guys want to we want to have a chat
01:02:56
um the lawyer wanted
01:02:58
um
01:02:59
uh they'd spoke to the way the police in
01:03:01
it and it was basically
01:03:03
done so within the I it was literally I
01:03:06
didn't know what to think because at the
01:03:07
time I was just kind of thinking far out
01:03:09
um
01:03:10
this is crazy because I'm about to go in
01:03:13
the air and all this that I've gone
01:03:14
through has been for nothing because I
01:03:16
wanted people to see things I wanted
01:03:18
them to see that and see exactly yeah
01:03:20
from the rooftop not even not even even
01:03:22
this even this this CCTV I'm like me I
01:03:25
want people to see that I want people to
01:03:27
see
01:03:28
um I mean understanding that you know
01:03:31
that her pants got taken away straight
01:03:33
after to be tested fingerprints and it
01:03:35
was kind of like it's the most stupidest
01:03:37
thing that you could ever you know think
01:03:38
about but surely at that time when you
01:03:41
when you're taking someone off a rugby
01:03:43
pitch
01:03:44
driving them two or three hours buddy
01:03:47
Cardiff chucking them in a um in a cell
01:03:50
that you're gonna
01:03:53
it's guilty all day do you know what I
01:03:55
mean yeah look it looks yeah the Optics
01:03:57
are bad yeah I mean it's it's not good
01:04:00
no you think Mills must have done
01:04:01
something really really bad yeah yeah
01:04:03
exactly and that's and that was way
01:04:05
unfortunately it was betrayed because as
01:04:08
soon as you use the language sexual
01:04:10
assault as like Unity rape
01:04:13
um and they I mean at the time you
01:04:16
I mean it's still a bit of anger you
01:04:17
think [ __ ] now why can't she be named
01:04:19
that yeah yeah at the same time you're
01:04:23
gonna [ __ ] I mean what are the
01:04:25
reasoning
01:04:27
stay here or whatever I mean that part
01:04:29
of the part of me wanted that trial that
01:04:32
happened before that reason yeah
01:04:34
to actually
01:04:36
name the person too because I knew I
01:04:40
knew 100 that I hadn't done anything
01:04:42
and and so I suppose the next goal was I
01:04:45
can't wait for this to happen if it's
01:04:47
not something that you can't wait for
01:04:49
but I always knew the day would come
01:04:51
yeah
01:04:53
um and it came a lot earlier even though
01:04:54
it wasn't
01:04:55
still wages to get to earlier than what
01:04:57
I was anticipating yeah
01:05:00
it's a lot to go through
01:05:02
I don't say it's a lot she said I reckon
01:05:05
Life Is Life for the most part it's um
01:05:07
pretty flat and boring and then in
01:05:09
between there's some there's some real
01:05:10
real highs and real real lows for
01:05:12
everyone your highs have been very very
01:05:15
high your lows have been very low as
01:05:18
well
01:05:19
they're crazy yeah yeah but I mean the
01:05:21
early the ones in the early 20s they
01:05:23
were yeah that's you you know you own
01:05:26
that you wear that that's your fault but
01:05:27
this one um yeah this is that what a
01:05:30
what a thing to go through yeah and I
01:05:32
think man
01:05:33
that's not something you dwell on like
01:05:35
yeah how do you not I don't I just where
01:05:39
does that come from
01:05:40
um
01:05:42
I'm not a I'm not a big believer in
01:05:44
holding on to holding on to stuff you
01:05:46
know I know you know you don't you don't
01:05:48
I mean yeah
01:05:50
you never forget you don't but [ __ ]
01:05:52
holding a grudge on so much [ __ ] is just
01:05:55
it's not healthy it's not really
01:05:58
are you excited by the things ahead you
01:06:00
know my life's I mean my life's way
01:06:02
better than what it was during that
01:06:03
period of time I've learned a lot from
01:06:06
that you know
01:06:08
um
01:06:09
I've got a wonderful family just just
01:06:11
things like that you can just you know
01:06:13
there's no use holding on to [ __ ] I mean
01:06:15
don't you be wrong every now don't be
01:06:17
angry but
01:06:19
um
01:06:20
yeah just wasted energy sort of holding
01:06:22
on yeah yeah I went 100 and how was your
01:06:25
um she was your girlfriend at the time
01:06:26
mate how was sheets with this whole
01:06:28
period
01:06:29
uh yeah she was good yeah um well I
01:06:31
think so I I think she struggled the
01:06:33
most because there is a bit in there
01:06:34
where and you can understand Lee
01:06:38
um
01:06:39
and it's understandable that there would
01:06:41
have been doubts in her mind about sort
01:06:43
of what happened yeah she's got her
01:06:45
friends
01:06:46
yeah yeah
01:06:48
um
01:06:49
that it was you know she's
01:06:51
she understands I mean there's still
01:06:54
there that side of me who's bubbly and
01:06:55
stuff and likes a bit of
01:06:57
to layer up every now and then but Jay
01:06:59
was Joe has been awesome in um in terms
01:07:02
of I play you know her support during
01:07:05
that time
01:07:06
was probably a lot of that probably got
01:07:08
me through this is very similar to my
01:07:10
mother
01:07:11
um
01:07:12
but yeah we I mean we hardly I haven't
01:07:15
spoken about this
01:07:16
um
01:07:17
since I did an interview for one of the
01:07:20
Irish
01:07:21
um kiwis that we did
01:07:23
um
01:07:24
because it's just not no it's not
01:07:26
something you sort of dwell back on no
01:07:28
well thanks for talking about it better
01:07:30
today
01:07:31
um yeah I I mean I wasn't sure if you if
01:07:33
you wanted to or not and either way
01:07:34
that's cool but there's I mean I suppose
01:07:37
because it's reasonably recent it feels
01:07:39
like a you know if if this was the Mills
01:07:42
book it probably feels like a chapter or
01:07:44
a couple of chapters but I'd love to
01:07:46
write down the book I I yeah I sit back
01:07:48
and I wrote the one that I wrote too
01:07:49
early I think I think um I'm definitely
01:07:52
a different person I've different got a
01:07:54
different sort of
01:07:56
um perspective of life and stuff too
01:07:58
it's funny though just how how much you
01:08:00
change um I've had Adam priori on the
01:08:03
podcast and he's um he's 52 now and he
01:08:06
he says he doesn't recognize the cocky
01:08:09
Brash Wicket keeper that he was in his
01:08:12
early twenties and it's like but that
01:08:14
was his authentic self at the time but
01:08:15
you just change and you grow and then I
01:08:17
think if you if you get to middle age
01:08:19
and you're embarrassed about some of the
01:08:20
stuff you've done it's probably it's
01:08:22
probably good yeah it's not a bad thing
01:08:23
isn't it yeah well I mean the
01:08:25
alternative's not changing at all and
01:08:27
yeah that's no good so what are the yeah
01:08:30
okay we'll close we'll close that
01:08:32
chapter because I appreciate you being
01:08:34
so honest honest and open about it
01:08:35
because I can tell it's not an easy
01:08:36
thing to talk about thank you so thanks
01:08:38
for talking about it on my podcast today
01:08:40
um you're good I'm good yeah I'm good
01:08:42
yeah it's um
01:08:44
it's actually quite
01:08:46
um cathartic yeah I don't say like it's
01:08:48
kind of like
01:08:49
because
01:08:51
I wouldn't say I'm apprehensive about
01:08:53
bringing it up but it's also important
01:08:55
that
01:08:57
um it is part of my life too that you're
01:08:59
kind of like thinking far out
01:09:01
um it's um recognizing acknowledging
01:09:04
that how the freaking heck I went
01:09:07
through that I don't even like just you
01:09:09
talking about it and then sort of seeing
01:09:10
it today I was like
01:09:12
I'll let you move through that [ __ ] and
01:09:14
um yeah
01:09:16
and it makes things
01:09:19
way better now just sort of is a good
01:09:21
way to celebrate sort of the success of
01:09:23
head off the field to having gone
01:09:25
through that that nonsense how is it how
01:09:28
has it changed you like you do you avoid
01:09:31
going out now um or I mean you shouldn't
01:09:33
because you know you didn't do anything
01:09:35
wrong but yeah I I mean I still like
01:09:38
going I don't go out as much as what I
01:09:40
used to um kids sort of have um had that
01:09:43
effect on us but yeah if you're 43 and
01:09:47
you're rolling at a spy bar at two in
01:09:48
the morning
01:09:50
it's not it's not good the next day
01:09:52
either so yeah best maturity isn't it
01:09:55
it's just just growing up and then
01:09:56
understanding
01:09:57
that you know a good time
01:10:00
it's about planning your good times like
01:10:02
you know
01:10:03
um and then having sort of things in
01:10:05
place I've got a really good group of
01:10:07
friends that understand you know who I
01:10:09
am and what I do that we're not sort of
01:10:11
going out to get muddled anymore or
01:10:13
putting yourself in a vulnerable
01:10:15
position
01:10:16
where I think
01:10:18
a lot of my friends never wouldn't do
01:10:20
that just for a sheer laughter at all
01:10:22
it's not funny because the consequence
01:10:23
of me is way bigger yeah it is it is
01:10:26
you're gonna mess up I mean yeah as we
01:10:28
said you're one of like nine people that
01:10:29
have played 100 tests so yeah the Target
01:10:31
on your back for the rest of your life
01:10:33
is massive yeah so yes I've just got an
01:10:35
understanding of it I mean and to be
01:10:38
honest I really I appreciate
01:10:40
having a few at home and just um going
01:10:42
to the beach and doing the same thing
01:10:44
even
01:10:45
three or four years or whatever that is
01:10:47
eventually going to the state of origin
01:10:48
which I can't wait for but um even my
01:10:51
mates talk about that hey we just got to
01:10:53
make sure we
01:10:54
don't get too carried away it's just we
01:10:56
would never have those conversations
01:10:57
before yeah I mean so
01:11:00
um it's just been mindful of you right
01:11:01
but there's never no way you'd go back
01:11:03
to the stuff that I used to do yeah and
01:11:06
um who's your close group of mates are
01:11:08
they any of them anyone that would know
01:11:10
now the majority of my schoolmates from
01:11:13
Custom boys
01:11:14
we've got a really good group
01:11:17
um all my mates here it's just funny
01:11:19
everyone always asks you you know who's
01:11:20
your mates from the real blacks like you
01:11:22
know you get on with the most you love
01:11:24
them mate it was like your best mates
01:11:26
when you're there and when you leave the
01:11:28
environment you go back to your own
01:11:29
families and friends but when you come
01:11:30
back it's like you've never left but
01:11:32
they're not they're not your mates
01:11:33
they're not yours yeah they're your
01:11:34
workmates yeah right and so
01:11:37
but I've got a real man-made since you
01:11:39
know when I came up to custom all my
01:11:42
group of friends are still still around
01:11:43
and we have a group chat and we
01:11:45
occasionally we sort of we should really
01:11:48
catch up more but we always say we do
01:11:49
but we never do but we keep in contact
01:11:52
which is fantastic yeah
01:11:54
um so how many World Cups did you win
01:11:56
just the one just one 2011 yeah [ __ ]
01:11:58
how good was that mate oh my God here so
01:12:01
that was the the game against France
01:12:02
what was it eight seven in the finals
01:12:03
yeah yeah oh crazy that was the worst
01:12:07
game to watch Ever that was just awesome
01:12:09
I was watching this I was injured as
01:12:11
well so I was watching him beside Dan
01:12:13
and it's got to be the most
01:12:16
nerve-wracking moment of Our Lives even
01:12:18
with beef
01:12:21
it's just kind of like [ __ ] this is
01:12:23
please don't let this happen again to us
01:12:25
because
01:12:25
that would have been our third time yeah
01:12:27
that's right that the whole thing is
01:12:29
absurd hey so yeah um yeah Dan got
01:12:32
injured early on Richie had a broken
01:12:34
foot and was like barely training during
01:12:36
the week and training and like running
01:12:38
shoes and Aaron cruden got called up and
01:12:40
then Stephen Donald yeah and then all
01:12:43
the you know all the stuff that it
01:12:44
happened with
01:12:45
um Corey Jane and is he going out and
01:12:48
stuff and that I mean
01:12:53
it needed a good ending and a good
01:12:55
ending was that we won yeah well we
01:12:57
should not because France played way
01:12:59
better than what we did
01:13:00
but this stuff in 2007 was what got us
01:13:04
home and oh man we had some good couple
01:13:06
of days of um of celebrations
01:13:09
2007 was that the one that we talked
01:13:11
about earlier yeah yeah 2003 we lost the
01:13:14
semi-final to Australia 2007 we lost the
01:13:17
quarters to France and
01:13:19
2011 we won yeah so we talked about
01:13:21
earlier like you learn more much more
01:13:23
from your family failures don't they
01:13:24
yeah so that um the one in uh 2007
01:13:27
against France I remember you know the
01:13:30
shots of um yeah Ted Graham Henry and
01:13:33
Richie at the press conference
01:13:33
afterwards and Richie just looks yeah
01:13:36
like like numb he does the thing where
01:13:38
he rubs his face and everyone thought he
01:13:40
was sort of crying and he he wasn't but
01:13:42
he you know you could tell he was just
01:13:43
distressed or unhappy nice that's one of
01:13:46
the days that you do want to forget
01:13:48
about it man
01:13:50
it's still here it says
01:13:52
because I think because for a lot of us
01:13:54
we're at our time in our career we were
01:13:56
going to be finishing up
01:13:58
and then obviously if we'd won that it
01:14:00
would have been perfect we had it didn't
01:14:01
go overseas and make some money um well
01:14:03
you know
01:14:05
um cash United but then you're kind of
01:14:06
getting to the age of 27 next one's like
01:14:08
31 you're like [ __ ] I don't know if I'll
01:14:10
make it yeah that's that's definitely
01:14:12
what I fell into I was like oh far out
01:14:14
now
01:14:15
so it was way more satisfying to win
01:14:18
that because of what we'd gone through
01:14:19
in 2007 more so than 2003 because it was
01:14:22
so young we're probably a little bit
01:14:24
naive in terms of the whole world cup
01:14:25
stuff for a lot of us it came through
01:14:28
um from 2003 so
01:14:30
11 was fantastic man it's so cool and
01:14:33
you've I mean you know you've you've got
01:14:35
such good life and there's um yeah
01:14:37
you're thriving with the business and
01:14:38
there's so much to look forward to do
01:14:40
spend much time like reflecting or
01:14:41
looking back are you much of a
01:14:43
sentimentalist like that
01:14:44
I am not I'm not a centimeters I am
01:14:48
I mean even my jerseys they are keyless
01:14:50
where I live really where are they
01:14:53
in a box in a garage downstairs and
01:14:57
um how many of them did you give away
01:14:58
how many how many of you still
01:15:04
[Laughter]
01:15:10
oh my God really I only did it who
01:15:14
priced them oh [ __ ] she went and got
01:15:15
them that he valued it um somewhere
01:15:18
overseas but I I didn't even actually I
01:15:21
didn't even care I was kind of like no
01:15:23
sweet as Southern but it wasn't at all
01:15:25
like
01:15:26
um I mean they itemize it because I
01:15:29
didn't have them there he talked to my
01:15:32
kids and my son who they were here with
01:15:35
us you're not there can I have one of
01:15:37
your jerseys and you're like oh [ __ ]
01:15:38
okay how am I going to keep these in if
01:15:40
I'm going to sell them and that was the
01:15:42
only reason
01:15:43
um so I was like you've got to buy them
01:15:44
so I mean [ __ ] the scheme of thing
01:15:46
they said is for the boys and my
01:15:48
Middle's somewhere my Commonwealth Games
01:15:51
is that a gold I've got a commonwealth
01:15:52
games gold medal which is the boys and
01:15:55
my cap
01:15:56
that they put on every now and then
01:15:58
they're probably it's probably lost
01:15:59
somewhere under their beds or something
01:16:01
um 100 tests for my Hundred tests I know
01:16:05
I know it's about uh pull your head up I
01:16:08
know I've got to come on I just doesn't
01:16:10
it's not I'm not big on there I'm going
01:16:12
to donate them to a museum or something
01:16:13
yeah I should really I should I mean I
01:16:15
I've given them some away since I've
01:16:18
finished speaking they've asked them for
01:16:19
charity in there they literally are in a
01:16:22
suitcase like collecting dust because
01:16:26
I'm I'm not a I'm not big on seller
01:16:28
Brown like this I don't even have a
01:16:29
jersey up in my house mums which I'm
01:16:32
more embarrassed about she she puts one
01:16:34
up at her place and I'm like man you've
01:16:36
got to get that down
01:16:38
um it's just not so like Memories for me
01:16:41
is more important than that like I don't
01:16:43
need a Sentimental thing to say far I'm
01:16:45
afraid you know this is what I did but
01:16:46
my kids now it's more it's they love it
01:16:50
you know they love it effective they
01:16:51
kind of still can't believe I was in all
01:16:52
black
01:16:54
um well not just normal like a like a
01:16:55
great orbler oh yeah how many how many
01:16:58
tries did you where are you on the try
01:16:59
list no I'm way behind so I wouldn't
01:17:02
even have a clue how many tries I sort
01:17:03
of scored um
01:17:05
my kids keep asking me that I should
01:17:07
really do a Google search by the way can
01:17:09
I just say you're a hopeless
01:17:20
is it a modesty thing or what is it like
01:17:23
where do you think this comes from my
01:17:25
memories are up here and probably in
01:17:27
here more than anything else like [ __ ]
01:17:30
memories you can't remember how many
01:17:31
tries yeah yeah
01:17:33
I think this once you've sort of done it
01:17:35
you're kind of it's
01:17:37
it's probably more also related to when
01:17:39
I said you know I want to I don't want
01:17:42
to become Anonymous that's probably part
01:17:43
of it too I don't need to hold on to
01:17:45
stuff to say man
01:17:47
that's me that's my identity because
01:17:49
being an all black isn't like you as a
01:17:52
person and going through what you've
01:17:54
done and what you're doing now and
01:17:56
inspiring other people that's
01:17:58
that's more me you know I love I love
01:18:01
helping people which is why I'm in this
01:18:03
sort of space particularly in the Maori
01:18:05
and Pacific island space so we have a
01:18:06
lot and then we've had massive success
01:18:09
in terms of home ownership for for
01:18:13
Pacific Islanders which I'm really proud
01:18:15
of
01:18:16
um I don't need
01:18:17
even though it's probably you know
01:18:19
getting in front of the um these
01:18:21
families have come from being an
01:18:22
all-black I don't need to Dingle and say
01:18:24
hey this is who I am and when all black
01:18:27
you know you need to that I don't know I
01:18:30
just I've just never never had that
01:18:33
before my probably the the one Jersey
01:18:35
that I probably do hold on to that I've
01:18:37
folded and lifted my wardrobe as the New
01:18:40
Zealand schools Jersey that I actually
01:18:41
gave away to want to the Solomons which
01:18:43
they gifted back to me on my 40th
01:18:46
um and it's funny because I've rode on
01:18:48
the back of it the score
01:18:50
um the massive jerseys and that's
01:18:52
probably the only ones that I love
01:18:53
there's an under 19 ones that they gave
01:18:54
back to and that's probably more
01:18:57
um special to me because that's where my
01:19:00
journey started yeah
01:19:02
um from all of that so I would say and
01:19:06
literally I mean it's not hung up or
01:19:07
anything but it's it's folded
01:19:09
sitting underneath my baseball caps I
01:19:12
think so um
01:19:14
but I I mean it's yeah like part of me
01:19:16
shakes my head in disbelief that um
01:19:18
you've got these these amazing things
01:19:20
and you know you couldn't care less
01:19:21
about them but then
01:19:23
um part of me I I'm I'm [ __ ] proud of
01:19:25
you because it means um you know if you
01:19:27
weren't doing anything worthwhile with
01:19:28
your life now it'd be very easy just to
01:19:30
like sit in the past yeah or look in the
01:19:32
past but the fact that you're doing good
01:19:34
stuff and you're thriving in this next
01:19:36
um phase of your of your life and like
01:19:38
people say life short but it's actually
01:19:39
bloody long
01:19:40
you're like another career or a couple
01:19:43
of careers ahead of you I think it's
01:19:44
kind of cool yeah I love it I I love
01:19:46
what I'm doing
01:19:48
I'm busy
01:19:49
um probably too busy now I'm and it's so
01:19:52
crazy because I'm now going to the Rugby
01:19:54
World Car the fourth one is a
01:19:55
commentator and I never in my wildest
01:19:58
dreams would I ever thought [ __ ] I'm
01:20:00
actually
01:20:01
I'm actually commentating I'll
01:20:03
commentate and actually say stuff in the
01:20:06
weekends and in shows and now I'm going
01:20:09
to you know the Pinnacle of rugby and
01:20:12
I'm actually calling a game and to be
01:20:14
selected to do that and be trusted to do
01:20:17
this
01:20:18
um man it's
01:20:21
um it's hard because I know I have to
01:20:22
leave my family behind
01:20:25
um yeah how do you how old are your
01:20:26
younger kids now so max is 14 uh
01:20:29
McKenzie he's five and Marco's four
01:20:32
right so I'm not a big traveler yeah um
01:20:34
and Scott Skye have been awesome for me
01:20:36
they've been like um
01:20:38
in terms of even domestically so
01:20:42
um but to have them sort of beg me to go
01:20:44
over the world cup for nine weeks I know
01:20:47
we'll get there
01:20:49
um it's going to be massive so I'm
01:20:50
really looking forward forward to that
01:20:52
so I've got a really I feel I've got a
01:20:54
really good balance in life I've got a
01:20:55
nice nice job Monday to Monday to
01:20:59
um well it's not really a job because
01:21:00
it's your own company yes I mean I get
01:21:03
to the Fridays and you're starting to
01:21:05
prep for the weekend and
01:21:07
um then you go through there the hardest
01:21:08
part is when the All Blacks don't go so
01:21:11
well because
01:21:12
it's been a rough one yeah how do you
01:21:15
yeah how do you how do you find that so
01:21:17
um when you were a player
01:21:19
um if a commentator or a writer or
01:21:21
whatever JK's say for example wrote
01:21:23
something mean about you were you did
01:21:26
you get salty about it you no way
01:21:27
because you know and I've always said
01:21:29
that man I'm I'm when I'm finished I'm
01:21:31
never gonna be that old old all black
01:21:33
guy that's going to beg the guys because
01:21:35
you know
01:21:37
I hope I hope it comes like I know I'm
01:21:40
I'm mindful of the words you use
01:21:42
um
01:21:43
you got to have an opinion and I think
01:21:45
the more that I've said in this role The
01:21:48
more I've been comfortable with having
01:21:49
an independent because at the same time
01:21:51
you're sort of still certainly man I
01:21:52
don't want to say that about them or I
01:21:54
don't have the right to say that
01:21:56
um but there's ways of doing it
01:21:58
um and being respected uh respectable
01:22:01
about it yeah and then hopefully it
01:22:03
doesn't get taken out of context because
01:22:04
a lot of it does it makes good
01:22:06
um clickbait it does yeah big time and
01:22:09
unfortunately that's just the world we
01:22:10
kind of live in but I've always been
01:22:13
um
01:22:14
but you also you don't want to lie about
01:22:17
the way they're going either you know
01:22:18
because as a former player so you know
01:22:21
when you're playing [ __ ] you know you
01:22:22
think you haven't found form but you
01:22:24
believe in the fact that it's going to
01:22:25
come
01:22:26
so I often kind of put myself in the
01:22:28
issues in terms of what man how would I
01:22:30
feel how would I be feeling right now
01:22:32
and why are these challenges sort of
01:22:34
happening why isn't you know
01:22:36
um
01:22:37
so I I am it is I am very mindful of
01:22:40
that but at the same time I think I've
01:22:41
gotten really comfortable
01:22:43
um the guy's Sky have been awesome
01:22:45
comfortable in what I what I have my
01:22:48
opinion and that I has she had one I
01:22:51
feel like um New Zealand's a like a in
01:22:54
general like a kind of place now like
01:22:55
you talked about being nervous about
01:22:56
coming back from the
01:22:58
2007 was the World Cup yeah yeah I feel
01:23:00
like um New Zealand's a more tolerant
01:23:02
place now the backlash like but you're
01:23:04
not going to get people spitting on you
01:23:05
like they did it to coach John Hart back
01:23:07
in the day no but it it helps that
01:23:09
you've won a couple of World World Cups
01:23:11
too so once we've done it that way we
01:23:14
only won one yeah yeah but uh you know
01:23:16
say oh well we can't win it every time
01:23:18
yeah yeah I think you know they're more
01:23:19
receptive of that you know kiwis
01:23:21
that's it's tough the other they've
01:23:25
always been chasing out there but we're
01:23:26
more realistic now in terms of our
01:23:30
know hey we can't win them all you can
01:23:32
you absolutely can't it was the day we
01:23:34
where we did and we were very successful
01:23:36
I mean that got boring too right yeah
01:23:38
almost would worry about I think 93 sort
01:23:41
of one uh record so it was just crazy I
01:23:43
know and that's massive in terms of
01:23:45
sport in general right and so
01:23:48
um I think you know kiwi's having these
01:23:49
other things too that that are around
01:23:51
we're so successful so many other sports
01:23:54
and um even you know even individual
01:23:56
sports is is awesome yeah
01:23:58
and how's your um how's your
01:24:00
relationship with the the X now is there
01:24:02
any sort of relationship now yeah that's
01:24:04
all right it's just because you're the
01:24:06
oldest boy together yes yeah yeah yeah
01:24:09
so you're co-parenting okay I think it's
01:24:12
good these things take time eh oh mates
01:24:15
I don't
01:24:16
know it's not a party like we don't talk
01:24:18
so I think yeah for Max's sake we sort
01:24:21
of just um just gotten on with it and
01:24:23
we've got the process sets in place it's
01:24:25
pretty good I am I am still mindful of
01:24:26
the fact of
01:24:28
um max is a big part of our Lives yeah
01:24:30
so we give them 50 50.
01:24:33
um
01:24:34
but he's becoming
01:24:36
um their teenage boy too that I was and
01:24:38
I often put myself in the man where is
01:24:39
he at with this and
01:24:42
um
01:24:43
be mindful of of my role in this even
01:24:46
though I don't get on with his mother
01:24:48
yeah yeah but yeah yeah I'm you're both
01:24:51
respectful of each other like you know
01:24:52
bad-mouthing each other no it's well I
01:24:55
don't I can't control it she she does
01:24:57
but I think
01:25:00
it took a long time I mean you talk
01:25:02
about the court process that we've just
01:25:04
spoken about yeah it took me a long time
01:25:06
to get to where this you know mixer so
01:25:08
perhaps part of that for me hardened me
01:25:11
in terms of the stuff that I was going
01:25:13
through
01:25:14
um
01:25:15
because even that part of
01:25:17
getting access to mix was very difficult
01:25:20
in the justice system
01:25:22
um
01:25:23
but yeah
01:25:25
um oh God the messiness of being an
01:25:27
adult hey I'll make life is tough and
01:25:30
again I I talk about experience right
01:25:32
and so covert bought us
01:25:36
another you really wanted business you
01:25:39
know through breakups
01:25:41
um and when you're talking to clients
01:25:43
about your own experiences and buying
01:25:46
back your hundred old jerseys whatever
01:25:48
it is whatever it was they laugh right
01:25:51
they laugh about that yeah and so you
01:25:57
that's the experience I'm talking about
01:25:59
going through you you can't beat going
01:26:01
through the stuff up something you know
01:26:02
I I hope awful at the time though yeah
01:26:05
absolutely but you've you've got to use
01:26:07
that in some way and that's how I use my
01:26:10
experiences man and there's
01:26:11
and what's the lesson in this what does
01:26:14
that mean the the listening think about
01:26:16
the kids yeah you know you're going to
01:26:18
get to the end result
01:26:19
but what what does that cost you in
01:26:21
terms of not just monetary but the
01:26:24
mental burden on urine kids I'm not
01:26:26
there to be a psychologist but I'm there
01:26:28
to share
01:26:29
my frustrations that I had that I
01:26:32
probably would have done things a little
01:26:33
bit different too and sort of
01:26:36
um be supportive around some of the
01:26:38
things they need so admittedly you just
01:26:40
there to give them your financial
01:26:42
advice in terms of where they can get to
01:26:44
and what they're working to try and do
01:26:45
whether it's buy out or
01:26:48
um you know sell everything up and then
01:26:50
buy but I think there's also an element
01:26:52
to where you're sort of because you've
01:26:55
gone through it yourself
01:26:56
um
01:26:57
that you can't appreciate some of the
01:26:59
things that you're actually talking I
01:27:00
mean you're selling all your portfolio
01:27:02
and giving halfway and you're thinking
01:27:04
okay you're never gonna you're never
01:27:06
gonna get back to what it is and there's
01:27:08
no way I mean you built it all up
01:27:11
I've started again and it's way more
01:27:13
satisfying this time because I know a
01:27:15
lot more
01:27:16
than what I did admittedly I wouldn't
01:27:17
have loved to give away a 2000 square
01:27:19
meter property out in New London I could
01:27:22
have sold to a developer for 50 100
01:27:25
million but hey what I mean what do you
01:27:28
do you mean you can't just dwell on that
01:27:29
sort of stuff so experience is Big it's
01:27:31
it's huge in terms of
01:27:34
um the space that I'm in
01:27:36
um you know both on you know on the
01:27:38
rugby pitch and also you know the
01:27:40
financial stuff that I'm doing yeah well
01:27:42
I I can't wait to see what your next
01:27:43
mistake is
01:27:46
not more no no no
01:27:48
yeah yeah mistakes as long as you learn
01:27:51
from the market I think they're fine but
01:27:52
and and uh I say okay I kind of mean
01:27:55
that in a way like your next mistake
01:27:56
it's not going to be something alcohol
01:27:57
related because I feel like you've
01:27:59
you've completely learned every lesson
01:28:01
there is to to be learned there yeah so
01:28:03
I I yeah I suppose good and bad I can't
01:28:06
wait to see what's next in the middle
01:28:07
story yeah I mean what a life I know it
01:28:10
has I mean ah this is probably the most
01:28:12
I've ever reflected back on anything
01:28:15
I've done so I thank you Dom for uh
01:28:17
inviting me in into this uh space and
01:28:21
talk about myself because it's not
01:28:22
something I've ever done before I can
01:28:24
tell I can tell I can tell it's um it's
01:28:28
a shame in a way because um you've got
01:28:29
so many stories to tell and uh you know
01:28:32
if the time comes where you you change
01:28:34
your mind and you want to be a bit more
01:28:35
public I know there's um you know you do
01:28:37
very well on the public speaking circuit
01:28:39
you've got a lot of lessons and a lot of
01:28:41
people can learn a lot of stuff from you
01:28:42
yeah
01:28:44
actually actually listens then just just
01:28:46
[ __ ] good memories too yeah and I
01:28:49
think that's the thing like [ __ ] you
01:28:50
just
01:28:51
if I get some of those memories because
01:28:53
you don't go back and reflect on it man
01:28:55
there's there's so many of the really
01:28:58
good stuff that you could just kind of
01:28:59
because you've parked that side of your
01:29:01
life away and You're gonna laugh like
01:29:02
what is what I've done with that life
01:29:04
you know it's all Swedish but when you
01:29:07
remember like actually yeah that's right
01:29:08
and that's what happened that way that's
01:29:10
what's happened that's what I was like
01:29:11
even the stuff that I've spoken to you
01:29:13
about there's so much funny [ __ ] that
01:29:15
happened during that time
01:29:16
that probably made things a lot easier
01:29:19
too it probably doesn't seem like it at
01:29:20
the top yeah yeah what what are you in
01:29:22
something like that's going on I suppose
01:29:23
it's like all consuming so yeah yeah
01:29:26
yeah but anyway um my friend daggy who's
01:29:29
filming this he just bought in a note
01:29:30
saying um 34 tries
01:29:33
which puts you in the top 30 in uh and
01:29:36
World rugby oh really oh I didn't know
01:29:38
that oh mate is it World rugby or just
01:29:40
all blacks
01:29:43
in the world rugby
01:29:45
should have been more greedy
01:29:48
together all right hey Millers milliona
01:29:51
thank you so much man I've really really
01:29:53
enjoyed it it's been awesome and um
01:29:54
thanks for being so open and so
01:29:56
vulnerable thanks again if you don't
01:29:57
pleasure
01:29:58
[Music]
