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[Music]
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James Jimmy Marshall what a l welome
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welcome to my podcast mate thanks for
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having me on it's um yeah a true honor
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to be in here like I've been following
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your journey right from when I saw that
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you had launched it and remember
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messaging you thinking or knowing how
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good you're going to go but it's been
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awesome watching your progression and
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see where we are now interviewing some
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of the excluding me but some of the
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biggest stars in New Zealand feel a
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little bit uncomfortable on here but um
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no looking forward to it oh no it's um
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it's an absolute honor to have you here
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like you you've um been super supportive
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from day one like you you've had your
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incredible what L podcast going for
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maybe two or three years before I
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launched and um yeah you very helpful I
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remember in an early episode I I I had
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one mic that wasn't working properly and
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the levels were all over the place and
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you just messaged me out of the blue and
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told me about some app I can use to fix
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that and I've um it's been like crack to
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me I've used it ever since it's um and I
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I have loved that about the um like the
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sort of podcasting Community like it's
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really supportive and inclusive yeah
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everyone sort of sees it from the
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outside side and thinks you're competing
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against each other but I don't feel like
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many people in there um feel it that way
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like so many people can listen to
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whatever podcast they want and there's
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so much um time for people to listen to
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whatever so um the more you can sort of
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help other people grow and um grow the
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whole podcast Community itself I think
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is beneficial 100% and you've um you've
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done so well with yours uh I I feel like
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there's probably a lot of people that
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know you more as um the watered
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podcaster than they do for your rugby
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career which was also amazing yeah I
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like when I go somewhere now more get
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more comments about um love your podcast
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and I would about howy did you used to
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play rugby or are you the Crusaders
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coach that's definitely favored to more
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the podcast I think people who tune into
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podcast they feel like they get that
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connection with you if they listening to
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it um consistently and um I feel like
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they have that
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um I guess chance to come and approach
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you and um share what they they think of
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your podcast or that they love your work
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and um yeah it seems like that yeah okay
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so quick quick CV for you so um Jimmy
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Marshall over 50 Super Rugby games for
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the Hurricanes uh a Super Rugby title
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with the Hurricanes um an itm cup title
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as Captain of taneki yeah and um coach
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of the tesman Marco and now assistant
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coach of the
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Crusaders yeah pretty good when like
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that yeah so um obviously had a pretty
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decent footy career in the end like from
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someone who never thought he would
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really um have a professional rugby
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career managed to um took a lot more
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goals off than I ever thought I would
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and um the transition into coaching's
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been something that um has just happened
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so so quickly Post 40 straight into
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coaching and wasn't really something I
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was looking to chase at that time but
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um opportunities have just sort of come
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to me and just sort of jumped at them
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and yeah here I am yeah there's there's
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so much to unpack with you um we we'll
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start with uh why you were here today um
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I'm lucky to have you here because um
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the Crusaders are playing the ockland
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blues tonight uh what is it Saturday the
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23rd of March um and I can't imagine how
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much how much pressure um you and the
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team are under you've had four games so
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far uh four losses so far I think it's
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the worst start to a crusader season
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since 1996 yeah my coaching career might
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be quite
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short it could be the end of it but um
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now it has been it's been a incredibly
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tough start to the season um in terms of
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pressure I haven't felt the pressure
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probably as much as external feel like I
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have um I feel like we're in a pretty
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similar spot this time last year we'd
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managed to scrape a couple of wins but
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we're also playing pretty clunky and um
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feel like a couple of games this year
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could have easily gone the other way but
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um and the beauty of this season is it's
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um the last three games at the end of
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the competition really it's a top eight
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um I expect us to be in the top eight
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and then just have to win three games
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from there and um I know a lot of people
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last year was my first season and I was
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feeling under pressure then cuz I felt
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like we weren't playing as the standard
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that we should have been but
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it's amazing how many people have
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forgotten how average we were last year
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because we got the result at the end of
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it so yeah well that's all that matters
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isn't it it's the name that's engraved
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on the trophy and that's it how you get
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it's whether you win pretty or ugly it
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doesn't [ __ ] matter yeah and I
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hopefully this season um when we get to
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the end of it people will be saying the
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same how do you um I mean this is
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probably more a question for the new
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coach who was it Rob Penning yeah yeah
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so yeah Scott Razer Robertson he has
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he's like been with the Crusaders for
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the last six or so Seasons won all of
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them and then there's a new coach Rob
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Penny um how like how do you guys block
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out the noise like when when you four
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losses down at the beginning of the
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Season there's a lot of lot of external
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noise yeah there is um I think Rob Pen's
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done a outstanding job he's um he's
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never SE flustered he's always thinking
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next job and uh he knows how close we
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are away from some results so I think
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he's handled it really well and um
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obviously obiously it was a tough tough
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um role to come into with razor success
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and um wasn't really a win scenario for
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him so I know you've been trying to get
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Razer on your podcast for
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about I've been pting him too much but
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his success was um oh you won't see that
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from a coach ever I wouldn't imagine
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it's just what they've achieved over
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that last 7e period's been pretty
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special and it was awesome to sort of
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witness it last year and see how it all
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worked so so what does today look like
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for you we're we're recording this at
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9:30 on the Saturday morning of game day
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what does game day look like game day is
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probably the most um chilled out day as
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a coach um post the game you're straight
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into reviews and previews and um it it
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gets really busy up until about game day
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and then um the morning of game you're
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basically free hence why could jump on
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this and then we'll meet up at about
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2:00 to go through a little walk through
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and then and um leave the boys to it
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until we meet for the bus so it's a
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pretty cruzy day but I'll start looking
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at um the teams next week we've just
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done a um Scout we call it of the Chiefs
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who we've got next week this morning so
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I'm start planning ahead for what's to
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come the following week wow yeah so yeah
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all your all your work's done by game
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day I suppose to say it like complete
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different to how it was as a player when
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you're probably like a bundle of nerves
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at this time on game day the last thing
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you'd be doing on the morning of game
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day player like a 90-minute [ __ ] chat on
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a podcast that is completely different
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like um definitely the nerve levels I
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don't get that same nervousness as a
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coach um playing I was I was used to get
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quite nervous especially um the morning
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of I was all right once I got to the
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stadium and sort of got around the boys
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but um the morning of I always found
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myself overthinking or um playing the
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game out of my head probably a little
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bit too much so
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it's quite quite nice having a morning
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where you can just sort of be a bit
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Freer yeah you look so relaxed um what
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what's your relationship like with the
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the players cuz you're coming from that
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that player sort of environment you know
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every single rugby player they talk
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about the um you know the camaraderie
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and just hanging out with the boys sort
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of thing do you can you sort of be
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friends with the players or do you need
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that sort of Coach player separation
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yeah that's something that I'm still
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sort of weighing up or trying to work
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out like I still feel like I can have a
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relationship ship with the players and
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if um got invited around to a barbecue
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or I'd be more than comfortable going
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around and just hanging out with some of
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the players as a mate so there's about
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five of them who are still older than me
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so I feel like I'm um still relatable to
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a lot of them and in a same situation
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with a lot some of our kids are are good
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friends so I don't feel the need to
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separate that those relationships but I
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know a lot of coaches have sort of
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recommended that to me but I guess I
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work that out if um there is any issues
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down the road and how's how is your home
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life um you see you're married you got
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how many kids got three boys at the
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moment and my wife's pregnant so oh [ __ ]
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we've got another boy on the way you're
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a how do you fit everything in like your
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your podcast is excellent and um it
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feels like you've if anything you've
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ramped I remember you and I having a
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having a chat I think at the beginning
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of last year or maybe the end of 2022
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just when you got the Crusaders job and
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you were talking about putting the water
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Leed podcast on ice or doing bi-weekly
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episodes look at here you got four going
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be a dad of four one of the biggest
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coaching jobs in the country and you're
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ramping the podcast up yeah that's
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definitely the thing that um is my
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biggest struggle at the moment is my
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time management and being able to juggle
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everything um the family life's busy um
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the wife still she's pregnant so she
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wants as much help as possible um my
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coaching is like you say is full on and
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that's always has to be my priority at
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this this time of the year and um with
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the podcast I was sort of banked a lot
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of my episodes before the season started
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so I haven't had to record podcasts
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throughout the week or do any any real
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work there just the odd um clip or
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whatever just while I'm sitting at the
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hotel usually start making some clips or
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a few things like that so um trying to
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make it as effortless as possible but
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still being able to produce the content
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from a podcast has being the being the
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the struggle and um while not
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sacrificing any of my coaching time cuz
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that has to be the priority especially
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when you're um 0 and
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four yeah is it is it good money being a
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being an assistant coach for like a a
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successful Super Rugby team it's um it's
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recently good money yeah yeah so um
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probably getting paid the same as I did
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as a player um unreal yeah so at the
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Hurricanes yeah yeah so um so so your
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wife so you've you've since you've been
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together you've moved like house 20
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times or something yeah um you've moved
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countries she must really really love
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you um um I believe um this The Story
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Goes that you moved to Nelson for the
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coaching job at the um tesman Marco and
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um and you were like that's it this is
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it yeah um yeah we're we're we're you
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know putting our Roots down and then you
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get a call from Razer yeah um do you do
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you say yes to Raza on that phone call
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or do you say I'll discuss it with my
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wife how does that conversation go yes
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so I didn't even move to Nelson for the
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coaching job I actually just moved to
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Nelson because that was home and uh we
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bought a house in Maro we loved it out
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there and I sort of because we had moved
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so many times I said to my wife that I
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wouldn't chase that coaching dream
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because generally the coaching dream is
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a lot of moving like a player so um got
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to the point where moo set up in NS and
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got an opportunity to coach with tasmin
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and I thought thought okay that that' be
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fine still in the same place we won't
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have to move but yeah 2 years later
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Razer does call and that was actually a
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lot harder than people probably or
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people assume it was a harder decision
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yeah yeah I was
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genuinely um weighing that up whether it
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was going to be a yes or no and had a
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good hard conversation with my wife that
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I wasn't going to take that unless she
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was fully into it cuz I knew how happy
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she was where she where we were in my
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poor the kids were all settled and I'm
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sort of committed to not chasing the the
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dream so I I genuinely um felt like that
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and then I guess the more people she
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talked to um the more pressure came on
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her because everyone's like you can't
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stop him from doing this or like and
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then she got to the point where um she
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was happy enough to make the move and
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the big relocation and yeah we're down
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there now and we're really enjoying
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[ __ ] that's supportive yeah that is
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super supportive oh poor thing put the
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onus on her um yeah cuz you for you it
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must have been like a like a a
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no-brainer like you you want it so bad
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yeah I knew the opportunity it was like
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for my coaching experience and the
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ability to go into the most successful
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Super Rugby franchise in history and
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Coach with some of the best coaches in
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the world I knew it was uh an incredible
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opportunity for for me to to do so I had
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that in my mind as well but I also knew
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that the commitment that I'd made and I
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know how every year the kids get older
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the moves got harder so um was aware of
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that as well so it was a real W
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of job life um career or um family and I
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think career obviously one what if if um
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if it was a hard no so you had to remain
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in Nelson would um would you been like a
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little bitter and
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resentful she always felt like I would
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have been but I don't think I would have
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been I would have just had to move on
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pretty quickly and um would have yeah
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not sure I think would have I was
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thinking of potentially going harder on
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the podcast if that was the route and um
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seeing if that could be a full-time job
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or doing probably tasmine on the side
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where I've gone the other way and gone
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the coaching fulltime and podcast on the
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side I do feel like it's of those things
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that would have been bought up every
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time there's an argument I could have
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been the all coach by now um what so
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Scott Razer Robertson what makes him so
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good so you you managed to have one
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season like observing the the master
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everyone talks about his relationship
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with the players and just how he's I
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don't know just has demeanor like what
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were the big takeaways you got from your
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year with him yeah it's definitely that
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connection piece around how we can
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connect a whole group connect with
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players individually connect um
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not only the playing 23 or um 34
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whatever is in the squad it's the board
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down to the the academy it's the whole
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um the whole room's aligned on on what
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his goal is and I thought he just did
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that really well and um yeah just
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balance he knew he knew the most
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important thing of a coaching role he
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told me that pretty early was the squad
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that he has so selection of the squad
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and um recruitment of the squad is
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massive for coach it's um no matter how
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good you are as a coach if you haven't
00:15:32
got the caliber of players it's going to
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be really tough job for you and um also
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the caliber of coaching staff um you get
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in so um I think he's done it really
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well with the All Blacks he's hired
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probably five of the best coaches I've
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worked with in my career um so I'm
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looking forward to seeing how they go
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and how that group Works yeah's he's a
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fascinating guy there definitely seems
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to be like a um
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almost like a personality shift in him
00:16:01
in the last couple of years as he sort
00:16:03
of like groomed his way to be an old
00:16:04
black coach he you know he's he he seems
00:16:06
more serious I guess in some ways um you
00:16:10
you would have seen him like with his
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with his guard down I guess you would
00:16:12
have seen him at his you know most
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relaxed um yeah what's it what what's he
00:16:16
like as a person yeah he is he is a very
00:16:18
relaxed guy he's um loves his surfing
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loves loves a good joke and a story so
00:16:25
um I think the serious side comes comes
00:16:27
when it's the media yeah yeah I suppose
00:16:30
it's out of necessity I mean there's
00:16:32
been some comments online saying like
00:16:34
because of the breakdown and he's not
00:16:35
fit to be no black coach it's just
00:16:37
absurd yeah no there's there's a lot
00:16:38
around that and I even learned that last
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year like doing a um interview early in
00:16:45
the season around um the week that was
00:16:49
coming up and I they sort of asked me
00:16:51
like just like you did before like what
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do your what does your day look like on
00:16:54
your flight we're flying to Australia to
00:16:57
play um the reds or the rebels um and I
00:17:01
just mentioned that a lot of that flight
00:17:03
I'll be looking at the Chiefs because um
00:17:05
we'll have our preview um oh so getting
00:17:08
like one game ahead of yourself and then
00:17:10
the article comes out um Crusaders focus
00:17:12
on Chiefs not not taking the red serious
00:17:16
and I was like oh geez Razer pulled me
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over at the airport and he's like have
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you have you read this I was like no
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haven't it's like read it I was like
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this isn't a good look and he's like man
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you just got to be so careful it's not a
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podcast when you're talking to the media
00:17:29
you've got to you can't give them
00:17:31
anything and that was a real lesson for
00:17:33
me and I I find it a real shame because
00:17:35
I'd love to be able to give more insight
00:17:37
into the game and um insight into how a
00:17:41
Coach Works how the players work how
00:17:42
they're feeling the real emotions of
00:17:45
coaching but you just you just can't
00:17:47
because it can just get thrown out of
00:17:49
proportion and a big headline can come
00:17:51
out which puts the team Under Pressure
00:17:52
puts the organization under pressure and
00:17:56
um yeah I just find that a real shame
00:17:58
and yeah it's massively it's massively
00:18:00
disappointing because everyone talks
00:18:01
about how how like boring the rugby
00:18:03
players are in this country and how they
00:18:05
never give anything but I suppose you
00:18:06
get burnt once and then that's it you're
00:18:07
done um and I feel like that's one
00:18:09
really good thing about your podcast
00:18:11
like it's created this um safe space
00:18:13
where you're just getting content out of
00:18:15
these players that that no no no other
00:18:18
media arm has been able to do and I I
00:18:20
feel like part of that is part of that
00:18:22
is your communication style of course
00:18:23
part of it's probably that you know they
00:18:25
can relate to you because you know
00:18:26
you're a player as well but I yeah one
00:18:29
thing I love about like I I don't know
00:18:30
[ __ ] about rugby but your your um
00:18:33
podcast it's very very accessible like a
00:18:35
very low entry point like it's not even
00:18:37
really about rugby to much of a degree
00:18:39
you know what I mean that was the whole
00:18:41
point I wanted to set it up I was quite
00:18:43
passionate about it because I was sick
00:18:44
of seeing the
00:18:46
players um the player that they
00:18:48
portrayed to the media and then I see
00:18:50
them in the changing rooms and they're
00:18:52
absolute characters or they've got great
00:18:55
stories and all this stuff I'm like man
00:18:57
no one's giving any of their personality
00:19:00
because of that reason so I sort of got
00:19:01
it but sort of wanted to create that
00:19:03
middle space where guys could share who
00:19:06
they really are without knowing that
00:19:08
they're not going to be portrayed or if
00:19:10
they say something they regret I can
00:19:12
take it out and like like you say a safe
00:19:14
space for them to be themelves share
00:19:17
their story and um yeah people can
00:19:20
actually see what they're really like
00:19:22
off the field yeah we'll get into um the
00:19:25
watered stuff and um more depth in just
00:19:27
a second but one more coaching question
00:19:28
um what are what are your goals ultimate
00:19:31
goal to be um head or black coach oh I
00:19:34
got asked just the other day I sat down
00:19:35
with uh coach coach's coach and sort of
00:19:40
asked me what my goals were and
00:19:41
something that I really struggled with I
00:19:44
I haven't really got any goals and I
00:19:45
know that's probably uh not a very good
00:19:49
way of going about it but I just feel
00:19:51
like I'm I'm happy to just be in the
00:19:54
game and just continually learn and grow
00:19:57
as a coach and I I haven't really put
00:19:59
any end points on it um I don't know if
00:20:02
I want to be a head coach I don't know
00:20:03
if I don't even really know what the
00:20:06
difference in that role is in terms of
00:20:08
the big picture stuff like at the moment
00:20:10
I'm doing my role and I I'm enjoying
00:20:12
that um I love having a lot of input on
00:20:15
the rugby and I know as you become a
00:20:17
head coach you sort of move away from
00:20:18
that and it's a bit more big picture
00:20:20
stuff so um in terms of goals I I
00:20:23
haven't really got any I'd love to be um
00:20:25
in Christ Church and with the Crusaders
00:20:27
for as long as I can especially as a
00:20:29
kids go through school and um yeah and
00:20:33
that's sort of as far as I've left it at
00:20:35
the moment I suppose it's a hard thing
00:20:37
to um have goals or plan for because
00:20:40
there's a lot of moving Parts isn't
00:20:41
there yeah you know well coaching you
00:20:43
can be gone like you've seen it in the
00:20:45
international game with um Dave reny
00:20:48
Eddie Jones you can you can be doing the
00:20:50
best job you you can and then next week
00:20:53
you're gone so um that's sort of why I'm
00:20:56
so Keen to continue my podcast in the
00:20:58
back ground so if I ever did get sacked
00:21:00
if we did go 0 and 12 or whatever and I
00:21:03
and I am gone um I've got something to
00:21:05
fall back on and I'm not having to move
00:21:07
the family to Japan or France to
00:21:11
continue the coaching career I can um if
00:21:14
the family is happy and settled in choss
00:21:16
ships then I can stay there and
00:21:18
potentially go down that that route yeah
00:21:20
yeah I love that hey so the the game
00:21:22
tonight after the game do you um do you
00:21:23
mix and mingle with the the blues
00:21:25
players you all get together and hang
00:21:27
out a bit or not really yeah will
00:21:28
usually go into their changing rooms and
00:21:30
just have a quick bear with them and
00:21:32
it's usually about 10 15 minutes have a
00:21:34
quick catch up and then on the bus back
00:21:36
to the hotel and um yeah probably have a
00:21:41
bear in the team room together some guys
00:21:43
will go out and some guys will just sit
00:21:46
there and um have a good yarn oh that's
00:21:48
cool maybe you can do me a favor and um
00:21:51
pass us um radex Nutrition Shake A
00:21:53
Bottle onto Dalton P look at that um he
00:21:56
was um he we were going backwards and
00:21:58
forwards cheers um we were going
00:22:00
backwards and forwards actually you can
00:22:02
keep that [ __ ] do Kelly do he um he was
00:22:06
supposed to come on the podcast and we
00:22:08
were going backwards and forwards and
00:22:09
then um on the the day before uh he
00:22:12
pulled out and he goes oh sorry family
00:22:14
member in hospital or something and then
00:22:15
I saw on Instagram later that day and it
00:22:16
was CR
00:22:20
day but do do you get that much with
00:22:23
your podcast like yeah I find that's the
00:22:25
hardest thing about it day like like
00:22:27
wrangling guests and you know getting
00:22:29
someone to commit I haven't been um
00:22:32
stood down for crate day that often but
00:22:35
it's a fear if he just said to me mate
00:22:37
I'm sorry I've got a bit offer I would
00:22:39
be good with that yeah but um there has
00:22:42
been the odd time where we've got
00:22:44
especially um different time zones and
00:22:46
things when I'm online and that stuff
00:22:49
around oh sorry I thought it was
00:22:51
yesterday or today and things like that
00:22:53
have happened or not pushing record was
00:22:56
quite a common mistake early on and my
00:22:58
podcasting career which was something
00:23:01
that still gives me anxiety when I can't
00:23:03
see the red light I'm not sure whether I
00:23:05
push recording I like want to get up and
00:23:07
check without losing the flow of the
00:23:08
combo so there's been a few moments like
00:23:12
that but nothing too major yeah so um
00:23:14
why did you start what L you you started
00:23:16
when you were still playing or no no so
00:23:19
I just had um correct or hip surgery
00:23:22
which I assumed was going to be career
00:23:25
ending um and you you were played with
00:23:27
um hip trouble for years eh yeah
00:23:29
basically my whole career I was that was
00:23:31
probably the thing that I struggled with
00:23:33
the most I had um hip surgery on both of
00:23:36
my hips when I was about 24 got me
00:23:39
through till I think I retired at 31 and
00:23:43
um yeah that was it was a pretty decent
00:23:46
surgery and the surgeon said it was like
00:23:48
the worst I've had seen so I knew I was
00:23:51
going to struggle to come back from that
00:23:53
so sort of um kick my butt into gear
00:23:56
around what I was going to do Post rugby
00:23:59
and throughout my career I always sort
00:24:01
of felt like coaching was going to be it
00:24:03
but then I had that discussion around I
00:24:06
didn't want to keep chasing that
00:24:07
coaching dream so um what else could I
00:24:10
fall on I wanted to start a podcast for
00:24:14
that for the reasons that I spoke about
00:24:16
before and um I also thought about like
00:24:21
working with younger players Academy so
00:24:23
I got a job at Nelson college coaching
00:24:25
the rugby class there for um a couple of
00:24:28
years which I really enjoyed as well so
00:24:30
I just sort of tried three different
00:24:32
things and um just felt like which one
00:24:35
was going to take over and coaching took
00:24:38
over the quickest so that's how it
00:24:40
basically ended there yeah but why the
00:24:43
why the podcast though why did you um
00:24:44
gravitate towards that like were you
00:24:46
were you like um in the Hurricanes
00:24:48
environment were you like a like a
00:24:49
jokester or a prankster you did the
00:24:52
other guys like tell you you should
00:24:53
start a podcast or you'd be good at it
00:24:54
or yeah I did um I used to do the info
00:24:57
committee which um
00:24:59
it is basically a way to get the young
00:25:02
guys up the front of the bus to
00:25:05
embarrass them and make them give
00:25:07
information about the city that you're
00:25:08
going to um and for some reason I'd get
00:25:12
that every team I went to but I re I
00:25:15
really didn't enjoy it so I thought
00:25:18
about how I could sort of turn it around
00:25:20
so I started just U making these little
00:25:22
voice packages through Garage Band just
00:25:25
push record and record my voice and sort
00:25:29
of um take the piss out of everyone else
00:25:31
on the bus so instead of it everyone
00:25:33
taking the piss out of me standing at
00:25:35
the front of the bus I turned it around
00:25:37
on them took my little audio piece up
00:25:40
plugged it in and then rinsed the rest
00:25:42
of the bus and part of things of that
00:25:45
was a lot of pranks which I released a
00:25:47
few of those through my podcast in the
00:25:50
the early days and um a few moments like
00:25:54
that but um a few I was really enjoying
00:25:58
s's podcast at the time I was living in
00:26:00
Japan and I was getting real into
00:26:02
podcasts um and I was enjoying his one
00:26:05
cuz I was learning stuff about players
00:26:06
that I'd played with for a long time
00:26:09
that I didn't know and I thought far out
00:26:11
that's that's quite cool getting that
00:26:12
Insight from players and and I messaged
00:26:15
him and he thought he I remember him
00:26:18
saying like he felt like I should be
00:26:20
doing the podcast more than him and I
00:26:23
knew how time constraint how much time
00:26:26
constraint he had on his um busy life
00:26:29
with the All Blacks and it was going to
00:26:30
be hard for him to continually produce
00:26:33
episodes so I thought it was a there's a
00:26:35
bit of a space there for me to jump into
00:26:38
and um gave it a crack and had a goal of
00:26:41
sort of doing seven episodes cuz I heard
00:26:44
that the average podcast doesn't last
00:26:45
seven episodes yeah it's an actual thing
00:26:47
called podcast fatigue yeah like seven
00:26:50
seems so little to have fatigue but um
00:26:54
it's a real thing you go through a lot
00:26:55
of them and there's less than seven on
00:26:57
them and you're like far out okay get to
00:26:59
seven and see how I'm going and reassess
00:27:01
and I was really enjoying it really
00:27:03
enjoying the
00:27:04
conversations um getting a lot of good
00:27:07
feedback from them which is which helps
00:27:10
um and then yeah just sort of try to
00:27:13
stay consistent with it and I think I'm
00:27:16
up to about 240 episodes now and amazing
00:27:19
still just loving it yeah no it's it's
00:27:23
incredible what you've done I I suppose
00:27:24
the podcast fatigue thing it's because
00:27:26
people start and you know you're putting
00:27:27
it's quite a bit of work for a little
00:27:29
reward and you look at the analytics and
00:27:31
the 20 people listening whatever I
00:27:33
suppose you just think what am I doing
00:27:35
with my time did you did you have quite
00:27:37
good numbers early on or was it mainly
00:27:39
just your teammates and things I had
00:27:41
nothing to compare it to I think that
00:27:43
was sort of the beauty of it like I
00:27:46
might have had maybe 200 downloads the
00:27:48
first episode and I I'm like was that
00:27:51
good or like this seems pretty good 200
00:27:53
people have listened to a hour chat but
00:27:56
then um as you go through it builds
00:27:59
pretty quick and I was pretty lucky that
00:28:01
I had access to some high-profile
00:28:04
players and um even the the Hurricanes
00:28:07
social media page used to share a lot of
00:28:09
my early episodes which gave it a pretty
00:28:12
good Kickstart initially and um I felt
00:28:15
like the growth of it was just going
00:28:17
really quickly at a early rate and um I
00:28:20
remember getting D CO's on quite early
00:28:23
and that was a big one for the podcast
00:28:25
we hadn't really spoken on a podcast
00:28:28
before or opened up about what he was
00:28:31
really like off the field and people see
00:28:33
the grub that he is on the field and the
00:28:35
gu's always fighting and starting niggle
00:28:37
but um such a good man off the field and
00:28:40
I felt like I was able to um shine a
00:28:43
light on that yeah shine a light on that
00:28:44
and he really enjoyed it and um he got
00:28:47
lots of good feedback I got good
00:28:48
feedback and the numbers were really
00:28:49
good on that one so I felt like that was
00:28:50
a bit of a kickart for me and
00:28:53
high-profile black like that um always
00:28:55
helps yeah I'm I'm intrigued by Dane KL
00:28:58
so yeah I mean you're a teammate with
00:28:59
them you played with them for you many
00:29:01
many seasons of Super Rugby I even had I
00:29:04
had been o'keef on the podcast last year
00:29:05
the r um and he loves Coy yeah he's he's
00:29:10
a riff is is he a good dude oh he is
00:29:12
he's a champion he's he's one of the
00:29:14
best um such a good man off the field
00:29:17
but like last year this was the first
00:29:20
time I was on the other side of the
00:29:21
fence coaching the Crusaders and man
00:29:25
watching him from the other side I see
00:29:27
why guys get so annoyed at him or why
00:29:29
they don't like him because you watch
00:29:30
him he's an absolute piss he Fe played
00:29:33
of him he he got a lot of our guys
00:29:35
rattled that game and they won that game
00:29:37
so I still think there's a little art in
00:29:39
there in what he does um a lot of guys
00:29:42
these days are probably too offended
00:29:44
because you mates with a lot of the guys
00:29:45
and it's a the rugby Community is quite
00:29:47
a small one but um when he's on the
00:29:50
field he doesn't care what people think
00:29:52
he's he's just out there to Wi he's such
00:29:54
a competitor
00:29:55
but and he'll be the first guy to go sh
00:29:58
shake your hand afterwards and um just
00:30:00
that was all part of the game but a
00:30:02
gamesmanship oh who's that um who's the
00:30:04
Argentinian guy oh Pablo mat so yeah
00:30:07
yeah so what's this what's the there's
00:30:09
some story there so he played with the
00:30:10
Crusaders for a bit yeah yeah and then
00:30:13
so when the All Blacks played
00:30:14
Argentina um yeah what did Coy say to
00:30:17
him um yeah he was just really into him
00:30:21
I think we' lost they lost the game
00:30:22
earlier and um yeah he wasn't too happy
00:30:26
with how that game went and he sort of
00:30:28
had a plan to go out there and get stuck
00:30:30
into him and try and get the result
00:30:32
which he did and um there after the game
00:30:34
he obviously offended Pablo um probably
00:30:39
a little bit too much and he wasn't
00:30:41
willing to accept the the apology after
00:30:44
the game so I think he gave him a little
00:30:45
push which the vi the cameras um got
00:30:49
hold of and got blown out of proportion
00:30:52
a little bit but I managed to talk to
00:30:53
Pablo after that and he was all good
00:30:55
about it and once I spoke to him so it
00:30:57
was
00:30:58
yeah so and then do you hear from Coy
00:31:00
after that nah no I didn't um thankfully
00:31:04
I'm not sure how you would have felt
00:31:06
about um so what's your preparation
00:31:09
process like I I umum I love your I love
00:31:12
your interview style like it just seems
00:31:14
um I don't I don't know like I'm I'm
00:31:16
sort of like in a in a like learning
00:31:18
period at the moment where I I can do so
00:31:19
much preparation but I feel like I need
00:31:21
to pull back and do if anything a little
00:31:23
bit less CU you want to have that sort
00:31:24
of organic conversation which I feel
00:31:26
like you've nailed right you're the
00:31:27
wizard did it um I was going to ask you
00:31:29
the same thing for me I'm just I like to
00:31:32
make a bit of a plan I I'll do a little
00:31:33
bit of research around if there any real
00:31:36
key areas that might be of interest or
00:31:39
um parts of their career that really
00:31:41
jump out might be a long-term injury or
00:31:44
um a real highlight or being dropped or
00:31:47
an incident or something that uh might
00:31:49
be a point which they really struggled
00:31:51
with or really kickstarted their career
00:31:53
but other than that I write down a bit
00:31:55
of a plan and then just try and put the
00:31:58
notes to the side and just see where it
00:32:01
ends up and more often than not it goes
00:32:04
you cover all the things that you wanted
00:32:06
to cover anyway and always try and end
00:32:09
with some questions which a lot will
00:32:11
come from the Instagram but if there's
00:32:13
key points that I've miss that I wanted
00:32:14
to um bring up in the episode I'll make
00:32:17
a question up and um try and get that in
00:32:19
there so you're at the time we were
00:32:20
recording this your most recent
00:32:21
episode's been um will Jordan who's one
00:32:23
of the one of the old black stars one of
00:32:25
the I think top Tri Store Tri score at
00:32:28
the World Cup last year one of the Best
00:32:29
Wingers in the world um do you when you
00:32:32
have like a big star like him on like a
00:32:34
a a contracted all black player like is
00:32:36
there red tape to go through like do you
00:32:37
need to get clearance from the nzu or um
00:32:40
with him there wasn't um cuz he's not in
00:32:43
all black camp at the moment I think
00:32:45
they're um more than happy for me to
00:32:47
just have the conversation um when I had
00:32:50
Sam Kane on before going into the Irish
00:32:53
series
00:32:54
then I did have to send that through to
00:32:57
the all black media manager and she had
00:32:59
to listen to it and um take out a few
00:33:02
bits which could have um caused a bit of
00:33:06
um unnecessary pressure on the group so
00:33:10
um yeah there has been moments getting
00:33:13
the big names on that I have to sort of
00:33:15
be a bit more careful with what I'm
00:33:16
saying or asking or what they're saying
00:33:18
so the edit button becomes a little bit
00:33:20
more crucial but um nine times out of 10
00:33:23
it's it's fine and we just generally Let
00:33:26
It Go yeah who what's your have you had
00:33:28
a favorite episode what would your
00:33:29
favorite episode be oh I get that
00:33:32
question asked a lot it's so hard cuz
00:33:34
everyone's so unique and everyone's got
00:33:35
such different different stories I think
00:33:38
a few that were really powerful was um
00:33:41
Michael fofa who um I played with at the
00:33:44
hurricanes and had um spinal injury
00:33:47
where he was paralyzed um that was one
00:33:50
that sort of hit me pretty hard cuz it
00:33:52
was a good mate who was such a tough
00:33:55
Warrior who playing game of rugby that
00:33:58
we all love is just one moment wasn't
00:34:00
even a freak accident or anything it was
00:34:03
just a normal collision and next minute
00:34:06
he can't um can't walk and he's got to
00:34:09
go through this whole process of coming
00:34:11
back from that and the struggles that he
00:34:13
went through and he's now walking and
00:34:15
doing really well so it was had a bit of
00:34:17
a um happy ending towards the end but
00:34:21
that was one that sort of hit me that I
00:34:22
always remember like it was awesome to
00:34:24
get him on and hear him talk about that
00:34:27
yeah you you've um yeah I I get asked
00:34:29
that question as well and I'm I don't
00:34:31
know why I even asked you because I'm
00:34:32
[ __ ] at answering I think I have thing
00:34:34
called like recency bias so it's like
00:34:38
you done whoever you've done in the past
00:34:40
stands out um who who would your dream
00:34:43
guest be oh that's hard too
00:34:47
um I don't know really um Richie would
00:34:51
you want to do Richie you i' love to get
00:34:53
Richie um he's lives in Christ Church
00:34:55
he's he's someone that everyone like man
00:34:58
the whole nation love that guy same with
00:35:00
Dan Carter like everyone loves those two
00:35:03
and they see them as the sort of
00:35:05
Pinnacle of the game so it' be cool to
00:35:07
get both of those on at some point um
00:35:09
don't know if you get much out of Richie
00:35:11
though no I'm not too sure all you sort
00:35:14
of put the mic in front of him um yeah I
00:35:17
think sometimes it's the guys who aren't
00:35:20
the big names are often the have the
00:35:22
most to share most to share like most
00:35:24
people know I know those two would
00:35:25
probably get the most downloads but um
00:35:28
in terms of the actual story like a lot
00:35:31
of people would have seen Dan Carter's
00:35:33
book or read as um I've seen his movie
00:35:36
or read his book and um there's a lot of
00:35:40
guys out there who have some incredible
00:35:42
stories who never get the opportunity to
00:35:44
share it so I think it's probably more
00:35:46
down that route than the other way so um
00:35:50
but I know that people love the big
00:35:52
names and the numbers will reflect that
00:35:54
yeah yeah it's I find that as well it's
00:35:57
kind of an ey rolling thing because some
00:35:58
of the um like hien gems I call it
00:36:01
actually the best episodes um but if
00:36:03
it's not a no one name they just don't
00:36:04
get the same numbers yeah that reminds
00:36:07
me of an interaction we had so you had
00:36:08
um who's the the uh soccer player from
00:36:11
Wellington the football oh poor I
00:36:13
thought Paul Eiffel yes you had Paul
00:36:14
Eiffel on and he he talked about his
00:36:16
gambling addiction and other other
00:36:17
demons and it was uh such a powerful
00:36:20
episode and I hadn't listened to the
00:36:22
episode but I was in Wellington at a
00:36:23
cafe and I read it in the Dominion Post
00:36:26
um so me from my commercial radio
00:36:28
background I was like [ __ ] good on James
00:36:30
this is a really good exposure for his
00:36:31
podcast I messed you like bro this is a
00:36:33
real Co and you were you were salty
00:36:35
about it yeah I was gutted and why I've
00:36:38
always found like as soon as or it was
00:36:41
more the way the story was portrayed
00:36:43
around um Paul Eiffel um risks his
00:36:47
career for gambling on himself and like
00:36:51
I
00:36:52
think what Paul did was share his story
00:36:55
he he was really vulnerable around what
00:36:58
he'd been through and he was there to
00:37:00
help others around if you're going
00:37:02
through a gambling problem ways to sort
00:37:04
of get out of it I know it's a really
00:37:06
common problem in in the game at the
00:37:08
moment but then the way it was portrayed
00:37:10
was all about him and investigation into
00:37:13
him gambling on himself and asking the
00:37:17
the a league um CEO whether they were
00:37:20
aware of him bitting on himself and it
00:37:22
just went down a the route that I I
00:37:25
didn't want to see it go and I know Paul
00:37:27
was wasn't too happy about it and I just
00:37:29
feel like every time the media get hold
00:37:31
of Articles it can blow it out um out of
00:37:34
context and um I think I said to you at
00:37:37
the time like I'd rather less downloads
00:37:39
than um exposure that is going to take
00:37:43
away from guys being themselves I want
00:37:46
guys to come on being able to share
00:37:49
without feeling like oh if I say this
00:37:52
this is probably going to be a headline
00:37:53
tomorrow so there a real Catch 22 around
00:37:56
exposure and um yeah that's great for
00:38:00
the podcast episode the numbers were
00:38:02
better but
00:38:04
um PE guess who are about to come on are
00:38:08
looking at that and thinking okay I'm
00:38:09
definitely not sharing my gambling
00:38:11
addictions or might a little yeah which
00:38:14
is the last thing I want for the podcast
00:38:16
I'd rather those 20 downloads but being
00:38:18
real authentic and open than um a
00:38:21
million downloads and everything's just
00:38:23
closed up yeah yeah when you when you
00:38:25
when I read your M I was like damn it
00:38:27
he's right he's a better person than me
00:38:30
I'm an [ __ ] not it's no wonder
00:38:33
there's so much um mistrust and
00:38:35
mainstream media these days are like
00:38:37
they're just like they snaky like that
00:38:40
they are and you see it in especially in
00:38:41
League I see at the moment like um
00:38:43
anything they can to blow out a story um
00:38:47
negative more often than not people seem
00:38:50
to click on the negative ones more than
00:38:52
the positive ones so um they're just
00:38:54
going to jump on it and I guess people
00:38:56
feed that too cuz the the ones clicking
00:38:58
on it people love a bit of Goss or a bit
00:39:00
of negative negativity especially on
00:39:02
social media so um yeah something to do
00:39:06
there yeah and what are your goals for
00:39:07
the future with the podcast yeah it's
00:39:09
just to keep trying to chip away at it
00:39:11
in the background while the coaching
00:39:13
continues and then like I said if
00:39:16
there's
00:39:17
um a point in my coaching where I've got
00:39:20
to either choose to move and Coach
00:39:23
somewhere else I'd love to just be able
00:39:24
to um have that option to stay put and
00:39:28
go fulltime like
00:39:29
yourself it's [ __ ] it's a hard grind a
00:39:32
like it's um it's like the iceberg
00:39:34
poster you know people don't see the
00:39:35
stuff that's under the water yeah
00:39:37
there's a lot but you've um you've built
00:39:38
it up to a phenomenal spot and um I know
00:39:40
recently you've been schmoozed by um
00:39:42
media work so they're doing some selling
00:39:44
and stuff for you now have you had any
00:39:46
pressure from anyone to change the name
00:39:48
no I haven't I've um it's it's been a
00:39:51
question that's coming a few times just
00:39:53
from um Instagram but um mainly around
00:39:58
when I get a woman on like do you still
00:40:00
call it what a lad or I've had three
00:40:02
female guests um I need to get more but
00:40:06
um yeah they've all been happy with it
00:40:08
being lad and it's fine what does lad
00:40:11
really mean no one really knows just
00:40:13
sort of like a good person um or yeah
00:40:17
absolutely it's the highest
00:40:19
compliment and um who who did you little
00:40:22
jingle yeah is that you singing though
00:40:24
no it's definitely not me singing I'm a
00:40:26
terrible singer um I put it out to my
00:40:29
social media cuz a few people mention
00:40:32
that you need a jingle I didn't start
00:40:33
with one and thought it could be quite
00:40:35
cool I remember hearing that water Man
00:40:38
song and yeah from V yeah salt pepper I
00:40:41
think it is and then I went
00:40:45
um I just changed the lyrics started
00:40:47
saying it to myself I like oh that could
00:40:49
be quite cool and then I just put it on
00:40:50
the um Instagram I tried a couple of
00:40:54
guys off Fiverr just to sort of come up
00:40:56
with their own one and
00:40:58
oh they were terrible um I didn't didn't
00:41:01
give those a go and then checked it on
00:41:03
Instagram and Alex Malcolm who does the
00:41:06
legend of Marty Banks page he um reached
00:41:09
out and said that he would do it and
00:41:11
Alex hmer I think does the vocals and um
00:41:15
yeah it's been a catchy little tune and
00:41:17
um SED well it's pry great um okay let's
00:41:20
um focus on your rugby plan career for a
00:41:23
bit so um so you're born in Oakland um
00:41:26
you moved to Nelson when you're eight
00:41:27
yeah so you so you consider yourself a
00:41:30
nelsonian set of thing yeah pretty much
00:41:33
um well I like remember my upbringing in
00:41:36
ockland I was only playing soccer up
00:41:38
into ockland so but had a lot of good
00:41:40
times living there I was living in mongy
00:41:42
Bridge um down there um spent a lot of
00:41:45
time in the backyard with my brother and
00:41:48
sometimes my sister and um a lot of
00:41:51
sports and um rugby and racing were big
00:41:55
parts of our upbringing and um yeah once
00:41:58
we moved down to Nelson I guess new
00:42:00
friend group gave rugby a crack but um I
00:42:03
consider Nelson home um well crush it
00:42:07
should be my home now but Nelson will
00:42:08
probably always be home for me yeah and
00:42:11
who who were your Idols growing up so
00:42:13
you're 35 now yeah 35 so who would it
00:42:16
have been like um was it like Cali and T
00:42:18
yeah Christian Ken I had a weird
00:42:19
obsession with them like it was probably
00:42:21
a little bit overboard I've got um
00:42:24
remember spending my pocket money on his
00:42:26
posters and
00:42:27
what always watches games and
00:42:30
um yeah I remember all blacks coming to
00:42:33
Nelson one time and I've got some quite
00:42:35
almost creepy photos of me just like
00:42:38
just different angles of them not me
00:42:40
even in it just like going around with
00:42:42
my camera just taking photos of him so
00:42:45
um I used to I I used to just love the
00:42:48
style that he played he was such a
00:42:50
incredible player to watch and even um
00:42:54
there's a horse called Christian Ken as
00:42:55
well which I had a real session with as
00:42:57
well he was my favorite horse so
00:42:59
remember getting up and watching him um
00:43:02
late at night sometimes to run bigger
00:43:03
Aussie races so um yeah I I just love
00:43:07
Christian Ken have you have you had him
00:43:09
on your podcast yet no I haven't he's
00:43:11
probably a he's probably a dream guest
00:43:12
for me um same here like me and him um
00:43:17
have got history like we used to kick
00:43:18
around in py quite a bit and spend New
00:43:20
Years together for a few years in a row
00:43:22
and I I've asked him to come on several
00:43:24
times and he he keeps saying I don't
00:43:26
think I've got anything interesting to
00:43:27
say which is the most cly answer ever
00:43:30
right so [ __ ] modest actually Jeff
00:43:33
Wilson's another one he he came up to me
00:43:34
and um a lounge at the airport and he
00:43:36
just said hey M I just want you to know
00:43:37
the um the the podcast you did with my
00:43:39
old coach John Hart It's [ __ ] amazing
00:43:42
and I'm like oh thanks Goldie I said do
00:43:43
you want to come on and he's like
00:43:45
absolutely
00:43:47
not you got these these guys which who
00:43:49
have just got um just this Rich tapestry
00:43:52
of her life and so many good Yarns to
00:43:53
share and they just don't think they
00:43:55
they don't think they've got anything to
00:43:56
say you're good at recruiting though
00:43:58
aren't you like you do not miss an
00:43:59
opportunity
00:44:01
to offer that don't don't
00:44:04
youle a bit hard like if I was in your
00:44:06
shows assistant coach I'd be like going
00:44:08
around the bus like yeah do you need to
00:44:11
have some sort of Separation like that
00:44:13
like how do you do the guys in the the
00:44:16
team that you work with do they come to
00:44:18
you and say oh James I'd love to do the
00:44:19
podcast or uh no they generally if I
00:44:22
know they listen to it it's probably a
00:44:24
good chance that they'll be Keener to
00:44:25
come on than if they don't yeah um for
00:44:28
me it's time like I haven't been I've
00:44:30
only been able to call one episode um
00:44:33
this whole season um in season's just
00:44:36
too hard to be able to get any episodes
00:44:38
recorded so it's all banked from
00:44:41
pre-season and we've got a by week in
00:44:43
two weeks where I'll try and get another
00:44:45
four or five in and that will hopefully
00:44:47
get me through to the end of Super Rugby
00:44:50
season and then um post Super Rugby
00:44:52
season I got a bit more time to get one
00:44:55
out a week and um get a few more of the
00:44:57
guys on did did you did you did you ask
00:44:59
Razer or would that have been
00:45:01
inappropriate um I sort of threw it out
00:45:04
there couple times but I knew that he
00:45:07
wasn't too Keen I knew his rule of only
00:45:09
doing one a year and um I knew how much
00:45:12
um grief you were giving him to get on
00:45:14
and I saw his sort of reaction so I knew
00:45:16
that I didn't want to take him down down
00:45:18
there so I sort of I've just sort of
00:45:20
left I don't really want people on who
00:45:23
don't aren't Keen to come on you know
00:45:25
like it's I'd rather someone who's Keen
00:45:27
to share and or got a story to tell and
00:45:30
um an opportunity for someone to to be
00:45:33
themselves where and once you once
00:45:35
you're forcing someone on they're like
00:45:37
oh how long's this going to be it's just
00:45:38
sort of kills the whole basle of it the
00:45:40
whole flow of it yeah yeah I agree um oh
00:45:44
God yeah you're you're such a better
00:45:46
person than me I need to I'm a [ __ ]
00:45:50
Badger David David ner on the podcast
00:45:52
last week and I went back through our
00:45:54
DMS and it was like I I I I wore the
00:45:57
down the nicest guy in New Zealand Sport
00:46:00
and I beat him um okay so uh with your
00:46:03
rugby how much of it was um hard work
00:46:05
versus natural Talent like you you only
00:46:08
played the first 15 in your last couple
00:46:09
of years of school a yeah so you weren't
00:46:11
like a naturally gifted player no I
00:46:13
wasn't like I wasn't making the rck
00:46:15
teams I um was always really small
00:46:19
skinny um
00:46:22
week um so I I knew I was pretty
00:46:26
unlikely to to have a professional rugby
00:46:28
career even though I really wanted it
00:46:31
and I would even tell people I remember
00:46:33
telling my teacher that I was going to
00:46:34
be a professional rugby player and um
00:46:37
it's quite a hard one to sort of back up
00:46:39
when you're not making the school rep
00:46:41
team or anything like she sort of rolls
00:46:43
their eyes at you and you're like oh
00:46:44
it's probably feir you know like um but
00:46:46
I sort of set a goal with in my I had
00:46:50
two years left of school it was that
00:46:52
offseason I set a goal that I was going
00:46:54
to give it a really good crack like um
00:46:57
give it everything I could to try and
00:46:58
make the first 15 and so how old are you
00:47:00
like 15 16 yeah I must have been yeah 15
00:47:04
16 and um got a gym membership for ask
00:47:08
my parents if they could instead of a
00:47:09
Christmas present and birthday present
00:47:11
my birthdays in December to get me a gym
00:47:13
membership um they did that um and just
00:47:17
cuz I knew the reason I wasn't getting
00:47:18
picked a lot of the time was cuz I
00:47:21
wasn't big enough or strong enough so I
00:47:22
knew I had to try and get bigger and
00:47:24
stronger and um I did that I went really
00:47:27
hard at the gym by myself and put a lot
00:47:30
of hours in I was always Naturally Fit
00:47:33
um I was always a good runner but the um
00:47:36
gym sers the things was something that I
00:47:38
really had to work on to you know put on
00:47:41
enough muscle to be able to uh take the
00:47:44
collisions and make the tackles or try
00:47:47
to make the tackles so um yeah and I
00:47:50
realiz that the more I was putting in
00:47:52
the quicker things started happening I
00:47:55
made the first 15 a year earlier than I
00:47:57
was expecting to and the following year
00:47:59
I was Captain and it was just like I
00:48:02
could really feel that all the work that
00:48:04
I was putting in was getting really I
00:48:06
was getting rewarded really quickly so
00:48:09
sort of caught the bug I guess and fish
00:48:12
a cycle of started to put in more and
00:48:14
more work and things started to happen
00:48:17
quicker and
00:48:18
quicker yeah you get that momentum I
00:48:20
suppose you get a taste of it and that's
00:48:21
quite intoxicating but then you you um
00:48:24
like you didn't make the um under 17
00:48:26
team the under 19 team the under 20 team
00:48:29
like why why did you keep going yeah
00:48:32
well like at the time missing out on
00:48:35
that might seem like um a bit of a
00:48:37
setback but for me I was I was so stoked
00:48:39
to be even trialing for it like I was
00:48:43
two years early I was so far off I
00:48:45
couldn't even make the Nelson rep team
00:48:46
now I'm in the frame for one of the best
00:48:49
in the country so um I know I didn't
00:48:52
make the team but that was like a
00:48:53
massive step up for me and I didn't even
00:48:56
I
00:48:57
really feel like I was good enough um at
00:48:59
that stage I remember going to the
00:49:01
trials and you've got Israel dag who was
00:49:04
already playing
00:49:05
NPC and there's me who likes battling
00:49:08
away um just coming out of Nelson
00:49:11
college which wasn't a massive rugby
00:49:13
school at the time so I definitely felt
00:49:15
like I was a little bit out of place and
00:49:18
didn't really feel ready to be um in
00:49:22
that side so I think that definitely
00:49:23
cost me in the end or held me back but
00:49:25
um the confidence that I got from being
00:49:27
around those players and knowing that I
00:49:29
wasn't too far off some of the best
00:49:31
players in the country gave me the
00:49:33
confidence that and I could um give this
00:49:36
a serious crack and that's probably
00:49:37
where I realized that um rugby was going
00:49:40
to be able to be a profession whether
00:49:42
that was having to travel the world and
00:49:44
play smaller clubs but um got on to
00:49:48
Tasman had just formed sort of two years
00:49:50
earlier and gave a pathway for local
00:49:53
kids to be able to progress through and
00:49:56
that's the wor I took did you have a
00:49:58
plan b or no um I was I was studying at
00:50:01
the time it was sort of exercise sport
00:50:03
or Sport Science and um I I just knew I
00:50:06
wanted to be involved in rugby um or in
00:50:09
sport and whether that was a trainer a
00:50:13
nutritionist or like manager or I just
00:50:15
always wanted to be involved in the game
00:50:18
I I just loved it so much and um so I
00:50:21
was sort of doing that on the side just
00:50:23
in case the rugby didn't go well that I
00:50:25
could maybe try and get my foot on the
00:50:27
door that way but thankfully it did all
00:50:30
work out
00:50:31
and were you um yeah it seems like you
00:50:34
put a lot of hard work and so there's
00:50:35
obviously like a little bit of talent
00:50:37
but it's mainly hard work um how how
00:50:40
hard did you work compared to like
00:50:41
others like you had you know I've been
00:50:44
on a bit of a a deep dive the last few
00:50:47
months with um this guy Tim Grover who's
00:50:49
um wrote a book called Relentless and
00:50:50
he's like the the personal trainer of
00:50:52
like Kobe MJ Dwayne Wade you know all
00:50:55
the best and it seems like um all those
00:50:57
guys are just super hardworking like
00:51:00
Kobe Bry will do three workouts a day
00:51:02
instead of two sort of thing were you
00:51:03
the hardest working guy I find that like
00:51:06
such a hard one to know because I don't
00:51:08
really know what other people are doing
00:51:10
but um I definitely felt like um when
00:51:13
I'd go to camps or um whenever we had to
00:51:17
do Fitness testing or strength testing
00:51:20
that um you could tell how hard I work
00:51:23
because of the the rapid growth I was
00:51:25
getting compared to some of the others
00:51:28
so um when I missed out on the New
00:51:31
Zealand 19s because my speed time wasn't
00:51:34
quite strong enough wasn't quite um oh
00:51:37
my speed time wasn't fast enough um so
00:51:40
then that whole sort of year I made sure
00:51:42
that next time I got there that my speed
00:51:45
time was quick enough and then um my
00:51:48
fitness was fine my strength was fine my
00:51:50
speed time was fine in that 20s year and
00:51:52
then it was just down to I remember Dave
00:51:54
reny saying mate you've done everything
00:51:56
you can to make this team you're just
00:51:57
you're just not good enough and that was
00:51:59
like that was what team was that was
00:52:01
that h no that was um New Zealand under
00:52:03
20 so the following year like I'd done
00:52:05
everything I I felt like I could to be
00:52:08
selected um but then I think it just
00:52:10
came down to me my mental stay around
00:52:13
not feeling like I was um I deserved to
00:52:16
be there and I didn't have a great trial
00:52:18
and and it was refreshing from Dave
00:52:20
renie to tell me that cuz I felt it as
00:52:22
well and um yeah but I I I loved how he
00:52:26
said that um I'd done everything and he
00:52:29
he really wanted to pick me for that
00:52:30
team just cuz he'd seen the work that
00:52:32
I'd put in but um yeah as a rugby player
00:52:36
I guess that's the most important thing
00:52:37
to know what what do you think that was
00:52:39
in hindsight was that um like a imposter
00:52:41
syndrome or is it a like lack of
00:52:43
confidence or self-belief what is it I
00:52:45
think it was a little bit of an imposter
00:52:47
syndrome around how have I gone from not
00:52:50
being able to make the Nelson rep teams
00:52:53
to now being in the conversation with
00:52:56
guys playing NPC I I definitely felt
00:52:58
that I didn't feel like I understood the
00:53:02
game as a first five
00:53:05
um confidently enough to be able to
00:53:08
demand these guys on the calls and
00:53:10
things like that so I definitely felt a
00:53:12
little bit out of place and it was
00:53:13
something I struggled with early in my
00:53:16
career but um I think all young teens go
00:53:18
through it like it's a big job to be
00:53:20
able to tell an all black or someone
00:53:23
what you think is the right call and um
00:53:26
your decision making in that space so
00:53:29
you see it a lot with the young guys
00:53:30
coming through around how hard that can
00:53:32
be and um can affect your game and you
00:53:35
debled with sevens for a bit he you in
00:53:38
the sevens frame with um Gordon titens
00:53:40
as coach yes I missed out on a Super
00:53:42
Rugby side so did a sevens Tournament
00:53:45
down in Queenstown back in the Glory
00:53:47
Days with um tasmin we went all right
00:53:50
and titch picked me to go to a New
00:53:52
Zealand Camp which was um yeah an
00:53:56
exciting opportunity I'd heard a lot
00:53:57
about Sir Gordon titens around some of
00:54:00
his trainings and how hard they were and
00:54:04
there's definitely no GPS um
00:54:06
restrictions back there like there are
00:54:08
these days it was it was run until you
00:54:11
collapse basically it was what's what's
00:54:13
a GPS restriction oh like um nowadays
00:54:16
everyone's got a GPS in their in their
00:54:18
shirt so if they get over a certain
00:54:20
amount of kilometers they become a
00:54:22
injury risk and they're taking out of
00:54:24
training and um right yeah you've got to
00:54:27
manage the loads pretty pretty
00:54:29
significantly but um he another
00:54:33
conversation he didn't he love making
00:54:35
people vomit yeah I would imagine so and
00:54:38
pass out and like some of the testing
00:54:41
was was brutal you'd often do a beat
00:54:43
test straight into a phosphate test and
00:54:45
then endless games of sevens with 80 60
00:54:49
40s which is run to the 80 back to 60 40
00:54:52
m and um yeah you just run and run and
00:54:55
run thank I was naturally
00:54:58
quite aerobically fit so I didn't
00:55:01
struggle too much with that side of
00:55:03
things so I probably found it not as
00:55:05
hard as a lot of guys going in there
00:55:07
especially um some of the island guys
00:55:09
who I know have been there before and
00:55:11
just wanted to walk away first test and
00:55:15
um the thing with I've always struggled
00:55:17
with the contact Fitness so like having
00:55:18
to tackle and do repeated tackles or
00:55:21
wrestle and that sort of thing so the
00:55:24
running side of things wasn't too bad
00:55:25
for me who who who was in that um seven
00:55:27
Squad with you like any any names you
00:55:29
can drop oh it was like DJ Forbes era
00:55:32
tomasi tharma young Charles peer tow was
00:55:36
um someone young Joe Weber Tim Mickelson
00:55:38
Toby Arnold a few guys who are still
00:55:41
floating around so um it was an awesome
00:55:44
group and um a really good culture I
00:55:47
only did two tournaments with them um
00:55:50
and then I took an opportunity up with
00:55:52
the Hurricanes wider Squad so decided to
00:55:55
go down there
00:55:57
path yeah do you remember your first
00:55:59
Super Rugby game um coincidentally from
00:56:01
where you are now as um assistant coach
00:56:03
of the Crusaders it was a Crusaders game
00:56:05
right it was and apparently it was on TV
00:56:06
the other night a lot of guys said that
00:56:08
they they saw it it was a throwback and
00:56:11
I was on the bench I didn't really
00:56:14
remember this one as my debut to be
00:56:15
honest so what year was this um this
00:56:18
would have been
00:56:19
14 10 years ago yeah or 13 maybe yeah I
00:56:23
think it was one of those years oh no it
00:56:26
must
00:56:26
13 um come off the bench U so who who so
00:56:31
was bod playing B was playing okay so he
00:56:34
came off and you came on uh he wouldn't
00:56:37
have come off he never came off so I was
00:56:39
on the bench but I generally come on as
00:56:41
fullback so once um once bod once I
00:56:44
realized that bod was um my competition
00:56:47
for 10 and the guy never really got
00:56:49
injured I sort of had to find another
00:56:53
pathway into the team and for me that
00:56:54
was through fullback and trying to have
00:56:57
a dual playmaker role and um yeah so
00:57:02
unless we were up by Plenty or down by
00:57:05
plenty I was never getting on for B so
00:57:08
there's a lot of games especially early
00:57:09
in my career where I I wouldn't get off
00:57:11
the bench which is always a one of those
00:57:14
feelings where you're like GED but if
00:57:17
the team's had a good win you're happy
00:57:18
for the team but it would have been nice
00:57:20
to get on and you know sort of Play Your
00:57:24
Part in the win as well sometimes you
00:57:25
can be bit awkward sitting The Sheds
00:57:27
after you've just you've prepared all
00:57:30
week for this moment and then you don't
00:57:32
actually get to play it out so yeah
00:57:34
there was um a hell of a game though way
00:57:35
do you do you remember much about it um
00:57:38
not so much but someone reminded me
00:57:40
after watching the um flashback and I
00:57:43
think it was Alti leoa
00:57:46
intercept with a few minutes to go to
00:57:48
seal the game for the Hurricanes am I
00:57:50
right yeah 2928 to the Hurricanes
00:57:53
Crusade is up by 5 with 7 minutes to go
00:57:56
um yeah incredible yeah just a
00:58:00
remarkable game yeah and like there's so
00:58:02
many games that stand out um throughout
00:58:04
my career which like look back on a man
00:58:07
that was they were special moments and I
00:58:10
think that's the beauty of the game it's
00:58:11
so unpredictable and um no matter like
00:58:15
we would have been underdogs that day
00:58:17
like um I know how fight up the
00:58:20
Hurricanes used to get to play against
00:58:22
the Crusaders and it's interesting now
00:58:24
being on the other side of the fence I
00:58:25
felt it last week I saw the p and the
00:58:28
Hurricane's had um playing us down there
00:58:30
so yeah it's interesting yeah everyone
00:58:32
despises the Crusaders and wants to beat
00:58:35
them right yeah such a massive Target so
00:58:37
so that game um your first one Dan and
00:58:41
Richie playing that would have been Dan
00:58:43
and Richie right 2013 2014 yeah it would
00:58:45
have been I think Dan was playing can't
00:58:47
remember Richie um but potentially I
00:58:49
remember playing against him a few times
00:58:52
and um yeah it's always you know seeing
00:58:55
some guys that you idolized growing up
00:58:57
across the other side of the field even
00:59:00
for me like um in my team like having
00:59:03
Conrad Smith M on all these guys who
00:59:06
like I was a massive hurricanes fan
00:59:08
growing up because of Christian Cullen
00:59:09
and I used to idolize these guys and
00:59:12
then you know few years later you're in
00:59:15
the same team with them it's a pretty
00:59:17
surreal
00:59:18
moment that is cool eh that's so cool
00:59:21
did you have I I heard a story about um
00:59:24
you and you and Richie I don't know when
00:59:26
this was um but did you do some like
00:59:29
trainings with the Crusaders there was
00:59:31
something where you you were running
00:59:32
laps and someone said to you you're not
00:59:34
allowed to pass Richie yeah yeah that's
00:59:35
right what's the what's the background
00:59:38
there yeah so I remember I don't know
00:59:40
how old I must have been young but I was
00:59:41
in the tasmin
00:59:43
academy um and was sent down for a week
00:59:47
experience with a few of the tasmin
00:59:49
academy guys to train with the Crusaders
00:59:52
were essentially just holding pads but
00:59:54
jump in the conditioning sessions and
00:59:55
the swimming sessions there was at the
00:59:58
time so I remember one of the ones was
01:00:00
just running around the laps and
01:00:02
remember K fot sort of saying oh no one
01:00:05
overtakes Richie in this drill and I was
01:00:07
in this run I was like okay so I sort of
01:00:10
just running and like I was a naturally
01:00:12
pretty good runner and I always would
01:00:14
back myself in those sort of um
01:00:17
conditioning drills or um runs and I
01:00:21
sort of felt like I I had plenty more
01:00:23
energy to give and I was just sort of
01:00:25
sitting behind rich a little bit scared
01:00:26
to overtake yeah just in case what he
01:00:30
was going to do like whether he' hunt me
01:00:31
down or um yeah and I just got to the
01:00:34
point I had one let to go and I think KH
01:00:37
was he saw that I was I was sort of
01:00:39
cruising and he said just overtake him
01:00:42
and I was like okay I will and I just
01:00:44
sort of put the foot down and just ran
01:00:46
fast and but to be fair I was like 70
01:00:49
kgs and Richie mcco would have been like
01:00:51
a good hundred and something so um yeah
01:00:55
that was that I was a moment that I
01:00:57
always remember like just how weird it
01:00:59
is that I was intimidated to over
01:01:01
overtake someone in a running did did he
01:01:04
say anything about it I I made a way
01:01:06
bigger deal out of it in my head then he
01:01:09
probably didn't give a stu oh no I'm
01:01:10
sure I had to appreciate it like he he
01:01:12
he'd want to be pushed right yeah so if
01:01:15
someone so probably not by a little
01:01:17
skull K way the point to Pro 60 kg yeah
01:01:22
um yeah so um oh when you signed for the
01:01:25
hurricane there like massive sort of
01:01:27
backlash like online and
01:01:29
stuff I read about this somewhere like
01:01:32
on social media like oh who's this guy
01:01:35
oh potentially when I came back um not
01:01:38
so much when I got there I hope because
01:01:40
I was just in the wider Squad no one
01:01:42
really knew who was on the Wiest Squad
01:01:44
um and then I had a pretty good NPC and
01:01:47
then sort of felt like I sort of
01:01:49
deserved my chance when I initially got
01:01:51
named but I did go over to London Irish
01:01:54
and then came back true Japan and bod
01:01:57
had just signed with the
01:01:59
blues um and I signed back with the
01:02:01
hurricanes and there was definitely a
01:02:02
bit of a backlash there oh cuz you cu
01:02:06
the fans maybe thought you weren't good
01:02:07
enough to be bod's replac yeah well like
01:02:09
um Bo who's going to replace bod I guess
01:02:11
what's the big question and then when
01:02:13
when I'm signed it's like oh GED like
01:02:17
that's not he's no B and Barrett so
01:02:20
there's a lot of um comments back on
01:02:22
that so I do remember that and as sort
01:02:24
of the first insight for me around the
01:02:27
social media side of things and how it
01:02:29
can affect you and um because I was
01:02:31
pretty lucky throughout my career that I
01:02:33
was never really a big name I sort of
01:02:36
always went under cover a little bit I
01:02:38
sort
01:02:39
of um the guy who
01:02:41
wouldn't get much praise so then no
01:02:44
one's going to try and knock me down
01:02:47
either cuz you know you're not put on a
01:02:49
pedestal like some players are who are
01:02:51
the ones who generally cop it a lot more
01:02:53
so I was um pretty lucky throughout my
01:02:56
career around the comments and stuff
01:02:58
that i' I'd receive but that was the
01:03:00
first time I was like oh jeez okay I'm
01:03:03
really coing here no one's really happy
01:03:05
that I'm back and um yeah not a great
01:03:08
start when you're stoked to come back to
01:03:10
the team that you you love playing for
01:03:12
and you wanted to try and help but um
01:03:14
everyone's not feeling the same how do
01:03:17
you how do you how do you cope with that
01:03:19
like you are you good at um just like
01:03:21
switching the phone off and not reading
01:03:22
these comments it's it's hard a people
01:03:24
say don't read the comments but it's
01:03:25
[ __ ] difficult I it's almost
01:03:27
impossible because you get you get
01:03:28
tagged in them you get um you know like
01:03:31
it's you have to consciously either get
01:03:35
off social media or if you see an
01:03:38
article or a post stay away from have a
01:03:41
rule around staying away from the
01:03:42
comments cuz that's where it generally
01:03:44
is it's not so much well the media might
01:03:46
have a a piece to say but it's generally
01:03:49
the ones that are in the comments which
01:03:51
get really abusive towards players and
01:03:54
as a coach I can I'm sort of flick
01:03:56
through them now and just read a few and
01:03:59
I think gez that's like so uncalled for
01:04:02
or like out of line he actually was the
01:04:05
team might have voted him as man of the
01:04:06
match how's he coping it like with such
01:04:09
abuse so um yeah it's a fascinating part
01:04:13
of the game these days is around how
01:04:15
players balance that social media and
01:04:17
how they can um CU there's obviously a
01:04:20
lot of good in it but um a lot of
01:04:22
negativity comes from it as well yeah
01:04:24
and and and that's the um thing is that
01:04:26
cuz if you take the good if you read if
01:04:28
you get high on your own Supply you got
01:04:30
to you got to take the negative as well
01:04:32
yeah someone once said that to me around
01:04:34
if you're if you're willing to read the
01:04:36
good stuff you're going to have to be
01:04:37
willing to read the bad stuff and I I
01:04:39
think it's that's so true um if you if
01:04:42
you can't handle the bad stuff stay away
01:04:45
from the good stuff as well cuz you're
01:04:47
you're going to go on an emotional
01:04:48
roller coaster and feel like um one
01:04:51
moment you're you're the best in the
01:04:52
world next minute yeah you're not worthy
01:04:54
of the Jersey so yeah um yeah try and
01:04:58
stay level and stay stay at a nice nice
01:05:02
mow level um to to stay in that right
01:05:05
sweet spot yeah so you ended up we
01:05:08
addressed this at the beginning you
01:05:09
ended up with a couple of itm cup um for
01:05:11
taneki which you were kept on in the
01:05:12
Super Rugby title um the Super Rugby
01:05:15
title with the hurricanes in 2016 then
01:05:17
then you went overseas why did you go
01:05:19
overseas so you made the finals in 2015
01:05:21
you won in 2016 it was like you know the
01:05:24
Hurricanes were almost the C cust of
01:05:27
becoming a dynasty yeah why did you
01:05:29
leave um to be honest it was cuz I
01:05:32
didn't feel like I
01:05:33
was going to keep my spot I felt like I
01:05:38
was um I'd maximized my potential a
01:05:42
little bit um whether that was um really
01:05:45
good self-awareness
01:05:47
or because I didn't back myself enough
01:05:50
I'm I'm not sure I guess people would
01:05:52
have different opinions on that but um
01:05:55
um
01:05:58
2015 there was I think there was an
01:06:01
injury which gave me an opportunity to
01:06:03
play and made the most of that I felt
01:06:06
like had a really good year that year um
01:06:09
managed to keep all blacks off out of
01:06:11
the starting lineup like our back three
01:06:13
was Julian savier Corey Jane nahi Milner
01:06:16
Scutter um Jason Woodward England player
01:06:20
and then myself and somehow I was
01:06:22
managing to start out of that group and
01:06:26
I didn't feel like that was going to
01:06:28
happen for much longer so at the start
01:06:30
of
01:06:32
2016 um our coach Clark lador was
01:06:36
heading over to who's coaching the
01:06:37
Hurricanes now actually was heading over
01:06:39
to London Irish and I mentioned that um
01:06:42
would be quite keen and he sort of teed
01:06:44
that up and we got that deal signed
01:06:46
pretty early in that season um and then
01:06:49
got through the year had a played most
01:06:52
most of the games started in the big
01:06:54
ones and um felt like I was a really big
01:06:56
part of that year and that success and
01:07:00
got to the point where um London Irish
01:07:03
got
01:07:04
relegated so I was going over to the
01:07:07
Championship Rugby now and hurricanes
01:07:10
had won the comp I was starting in the
01:07:13
final um so I tried to get out of my
01:07:16
contract um I wanted to
01:07:18
stay um the hurricane said that they
01:07:21
would match my offer over at London
01:07:23
Irish because that obviously
01:07:27
I I guess they didn't really expect me
01:07:28
to have the year or influence that I had
01:07:30
on the
01:07:31
group um and I didn't expect London
01:07:34
Irish to go down so I tried ringing the
01:07:38
London Irish CEO and telling him that
01:07:41
I'm not going to come which was a
01:07:43
conversation which I've never been so
01:07:45
nervous for like really I was sweating I
01:07:48
wasn't sure how he was going to take it
01:07:51
um yeah I tried to go down the the
01:07:54
family um I just had a young son he was
01:07:57
sort of 3 months old and just thought it
01:08:00
might have been too much to move to the
01:08:01
other side of the world even though that
01:08:04
wasn't a huge part that was sort of
01:08:06
the the way that I thought might be my
01:08:08
best chance to get out of jail get out
01:08:10
of jail um but he basically said mate
01:08:14
you're no chance I'll see you on Monday
01:08:16
and I like okay okay I'll see you Monday
01:08:19
and never spoke about the conversation
01:08:21
just left that it's at and headed over
01:08:24
there and I love my time over there like
01:08:27
um London's such a cool part of the
01:08:30
world and so busy and got to travel the
01:08:33
world and plan a different competition
01:08:35
meet so many new people and um yeah I've
01:08:38
got no regrets at the end is it good
01:08:40
money with those International contracts
01:08:41
when you play overseas for yeah it is um
01:08:44
in
01:08:45
pounds was was on
01:08:48
250,000 F like half a million New
01:08:50
Zealand yeah but once you get texted
01:08:53
it's um like your tax rate's about 50%
01:08:57
as well so you get hit pretty hard which
01:08:59
is something I didn't really realize at
01:09:01
the time when you like it sounds good
01:09:03
and I suppose you got to pay agents and
01:09:06
yeah you got all your fees and or the
01:09:07
agent fee is paid by the club but right
01:09:11
um accommodation in London is
01:09:14
unbelievable yeah just the the cost of
01:09:16
living over there I mean you can go to a
01:09:18
white cross or whatever and groceries
01:09:19
can be quite cheap um but getting a
01:09:21
coffee or breakfast or just going out
01:09:23
and doing things that cost so much money
01:09:25
up yeah um but have you been quite smart
01:09:27
with your money over the years like did
01:09:28
you finish as a player with um like a
01:09:31
you know a good sort of [ __ ] yeah I think
01:09:32
that was something like I don't know how
01:09:35
or why but I was really conscious with
01:09:38
my money like um bought my first
01:09:41
property from a wider Squad contract so
01:09:45
a wider Squad contract was about 25,000
01:09:48
a year so I lived at home for a long
01:09:50
time saved a lot of lot of my income I
01:09:53
wasn't a big spender um um hated wasting
01:09:57
money on the purse which a lot of guys
01:09:59
especially young will go and buy rounds
01:10:02
and rounds I guess um copped a bit of
01:10:05
flack for that about you know B tight G
01:10:07
pockets and all those names but in the
01:10:10
long run I've I've got no regrets about
01:10:12
how much money I um save from not buying
01:10:16
those $200 rounds every time you you're
01:10:19
going out more in multiple times so um
01:10:23
yeah I I finished my Rugby mortgage free
01:10:26
um so um three investment properties um
01:10:32
so I feel like I'm in a pretty good
01:10:34
space to um continue on but um yeah I
01:10:39
was I was really anxious about coming to
01:10:41
the end of my Rugby career because I
01:10:42
wasn't sure what I was going to do and I
01:10:45
almost had that rugby time frame as
01:10:48
that's the end of my career I want to be
01:10:50
in a situation
01:10:52
where um I can not retire but I didn't
01:10:57
want real Financial pressure coming to
01:10:59
the end of my my Rugby cuz I knew how
01:11:02
hard that transition was or is for a lot
01:11:04
of guys and as soon as Financial
01:11:06
pressure comes into that as well it's
01:11:09
just um a disaster hear how many guys um
01:11:13
relationships end um depression all
01:11:16
those all those things come in with that
01:11:20
transition and I think that financial
01:11:22
piece is such a big one cuz you're
01:11:23
coming you finish your career at
01:11:24
probably
01:11:26
the high of your financial high of your
01:11:29
um Peak financially and then all of a
01:11:31
sudden you're starting from square one
01:11:33
and if you've blown all that cash and
01:11:35
you've got nothing to fall back on um I
01:11:38
can see how people stress out cuz it's
01:11:41
it's living's expensive especially with
01:11:43
kids and um a family to provide for so
01:11:47
um yeah I'm pretty lucky with um how I
01:11:49
how I did it yeah and so that's
01:11:52
inspirational by the way and thanks for
01:11:54
being so open about about about that
01:11:55
like I I think that's really cool like
01:11:57
to to end pretty much on your own terms
01:12:00
with um you know like a [ __ ] and stuff
01:12:02
that's that's really awesome um yeah how
01:12:04
was your mental health after you
01:12:05
finished cuz I suppose you're sort of
01:12:07
almost defined by being a player in a
01:12:08
way aren't you it's a big part of your
01:12:10
identity yeah it is and I I've been
01:12:12
super lucky with um or yeah lucky might
01:12:17
be the right word or might not be but
01:12:19
how my transition worked I I like look
01:12:22
back at it I'm so grateful with how it
01:12:25
went I couldn't have planned it any
01:12:26
better really like you've got so much
01:12:28
anxiety leading up to it like what am I
01:12:31
going to do next you can't really start
01:12:33
something else until you're until you
01:12:36
have finished um and for me it
01:12:39
was one minute a player next minute I'm
01:12:43
having surgery Co hits Carlos Spencer
01:12:47
leaves the Hurricanes Jason Holland
01:12:49
asked me if I can fill in for Carlos
01:12:52
Spencer for the rest of the season so
01:12:54
this sort of 6 weeks left to go on the
01:12:58
season I've gone from player to a coach
01:13:01
essentially
01:13:02
overnight um tried to start my podcast
01:13:05
I've tried to create all these
01:13:07
identities to I guess sort of fill that
01:13:09
Gap
01:13:10
um so I'm no longer the player but I'm
01:13:14
now either the coach or the podcaster or
01:13:16
um whatever whatever that is whether
01:13:19
that's a big thing and I was never
01:13:22
really seen as a like I wouldn't go down
01:13:24
the stre and every was oh there's James
01:13:26
Marshall the rugby player no one really
01:13:28
knew who I was it was so it was never a
01:13:30
massive part of it for me the identity
01:13:32
but I guess talking to other people
01:13:35
around it it's what you call yourself I
01:13:38
guess like I'm I am a rugby player it's
01:13:41
what I do but now what am I I'm I'm a
01:13:43
coach I'm a dad I'm a I'm all these
01:13:46
things so um it's an interesting piece
01:13:49
and something that I know a lot of guys
01:13:51
struggle with I think the biggest
01:13:52
struggle for me was probably the
01:13:54
exercise piece like with the
01:13:56
hip um how to fit an exercise cuz when
01:14:00
you're a player you it's in your
01:14:03
schedule you have to exercise it's part
01:14:05
of your routine and when you're trying
01:14:07
to find a career or you're trying to
01:14:11
build something like you know the
01:14:14
building a podcast was timec consuming
01:14:15
coaching was timec
01:14:17
consuming family was timec consuming
01:14:19
exercise for me went straight to the
01:14:21
bottom and that was something and
01:14:24
something that I'm still working at the
01:14:25
moment how can I fit that piece in for
01:14:28
myself and make sure that I'm still um
01:14:31
looking after my own body and um myself
01:14:34
in that same mental space how how is
01:14:36
your body now it's getting better and
01:14:39
better with my hip uh I guess the first
01:14:41
two years um struggled to run struggled
01:14:45
to walk without a limp I'm I can sort of
01:14:48
run around now with the kids which is
01:14:50
which is nice I could go for a run if I
01:14:52
had to um I can jump into training and
01:14:55
um do a few few bits there um but it's
01:15:00
not ideal I'm always going to struggle
01:15:02
with my hip I'm going to need a hit
01:15:03
replacement at some point it's just a
01:15:06
matter of when and trying to trying to
01:15:08
hold off for that as long as possible
01:15:11
they tell you you're too young right you
01:15:12
have to wait till what you're 50 they
01:15:15
just sit as long as possible let us know
01:15:17
and when it's um fully stuffed again and
01:15:20
we'll get a new one but um yeah
01:15:23
hopefully in 10 years some pretty good
01:15:26
technology I might have some sort of
01:15:28
robot H that
01:15:31
can um what sort of impact did did that
01:15:34
have on your mental health cuz it's uh
01:15:36
you know if physically if you're not fit
01:15:38
it's hard to be mentally fit he like it
01:15:40
gets you down yeah and I guess that was
01:15:42
the piece for me like I realized that um
01:15:46
that had my physical health was
01:15:48
definitely put to the to the back and
01:15:52
like I used to always love running um
01:15:55
couldn't run for sort of two
01:15:57
years I started getting off the gym um
01:16:02
later in my career just you know sort of
01:16:05
found it quite tedious or hard work to
01:16:07
get myself up for gym sessions like I
01:16:09
used to when I was younger um and that
01:16:11
was really the only thing I could do so
01:16:12
I sort of just sort of parked it and
01:16:15
wasn't doing anything then you know find
01:16:17
yourself getting real sloppy around the
01:16:19
G and um yeah it's um
01:16:25
something I've tried to plan in this
01:16:26
year like early mornings I'll try and
01:16:28
get up and go to the gym whether that's
01:16:31
a um little bit of a strength hurt um
01:16:34
bike or run or something I'm trying to
01:16:36
do something three times a week in the
01:16:38
morning and I've learned this from met
01:16:41
Todd but once you've once you write it
01:16:43
down and what you're going to do the
01:16:45
next morning you do it if you don't
01:16:47
you're more inclined to not do it so um
01:16:51
I definitely feel that like if I've
01:16:52
written something down I'll I'll get up
01:16:54
and do it
01:16:55
that satisfaction of Crossing it off the
01:16:57
list or ticking it is is worth it well
01:16:59
if you don't write it down I'll find
01:17:01
myself just jumping straight on the
01:17:03
computer and getting into some clips and
01:17:07
um watching watching training or doing a
01:17:09
little bit more that's a good that's a
01:17:12
good tip isn't it that's a good Pro tip
01:17:13
so you write like a to-do list at night
01:17:16
time yeah do you any any other
01:17:17
journaling or anything like that are you
01:17:19
you PR gratitude or I've gone through
01:17:21
stages where I've got right into that um
01:17:24
I really found that in Co the co break
01:17:27
that got on a lot of those U mental
01:17:30
health sort of podcasts and some of
01:17:32
those the ice spaths the journaling the
01:17:35
Gratitude all that sort of stuff I feel
01:17:37
like naturally I've always been really
01:17:40
grateful um I'm not sure how or why but
01:17:44
um didn't have a huge amount growing up
01:17:46
so everything that I get I'm always
01:17:49
super grateful for and I know it's so
01:17:51
easy to take the things that you have
01:17:55
um and you use every day like your
01:17:57
fingers your being able to breathe your
01:17:59
all these things so easy to take for
01:18:02
granted CU um you don't think about them
01:18:03
until they're until they're gone but I
01:18:06
think it's a great thing to practice um
01:18:09
writing down as many I used to do it um
01:18:13
I should still do it but I don't um 10
01:18:15
things every morning that I'm grateful
01:18:17
for and that can be anything like
01:18:19
grateful to be able to listen or um
01:18:21
grateful to be able to breathe um
01:18:24
grateful for being able to have fresh
01:18:25
water all these little things that you
01:18:27
don't often think about um unless you
01:18:30
consciously make an effort to think
01:18:32
about because you know you notice it
01:18:34
when you've got a sore throat and how
01:18:36
hard it is to swallow or when your nose
01:18:37
is bed and you just want to breathe you
01:18:39
notice you notice then how important it
01:18:42
is but until you until it's taken away
01:18:44
you don't really know yeah when when
01:18:46
when you're unwell you only have one
01:18:48
word sh that's that's be well again
01:18:50
that's really good I I sort of do that
01:18:52
as well I don't write it down but I lie
01:18:54
and beard in the morning that's the
01:18:55
first thing I do like I I just lie there
01:18:56
and count my blessings and it's like you
01:18:58
can set the Gratitude bar really low
01:19:00
like having having a warm duvet on top
01:19:02
of you having a roof over your head yeah
01:19:04
the water like you said drinking water
01:19:06
out of the T yeah it's um it's a bloody
01:19:08
great way to be I feel like the
01:19:10
Gratitude just the word with its sort of
01:19:12
woo woo connotations gets a bad rep but
01:19:14
it's bloody good yeah it's powerful and
01:19:17
um I think people always see it as um
01:19:20
big picture stuff grateful for my big
01:19:23
car or whatever it is but it's it's as
01:19:25
simple as um the things that keep you
01:19:28
alive or the health often was always a
01:19:30
big one of myself and my family like
01:19:32
yeah you don't realize until you hear
01:19:35
stories of other people's kids getting
01:19:38
sick and just you know sort of hits you
01:19:40
how grateful I am that my kids are all
01:19:43
healthy and well and um something that
01:19:46
you canot take for granted cuz there's
01:19:49
no Rhyme or Reason Why kids get sick or
01:19:53
um get these illnesses that are so
01:19:55
heartbreaking but um something to always
01:19:57
be grateful for yeah absolutely um oh
01:20:01
one thing I forgot to mentioned so the
01:20:03
um the itm Cup Final so uh taneki you
01:20:07
you were the captain you won that game
01:20:09
your brother Tom was on the other team
01:20:11
yeah um how was that that was intense
01:20:15
like that's probably the most intense
01:20:17
game I think I ever played was that one
01:20:19
in terms
01:20:21
of um the atmosphere of the but also the
01:20:26
banter and um I guess probably abuse
01:20:30
from the
01:20:31
opposition cuz I played with a lot of
01:20:34
the those guys it wasn't just my brother
01:20:35
I was a proud Tes Marco man came through
01:20:38
the region that's so awkward um now a
01:20:42
few years later captaining tanaki and
01:20:45
we're going at it in the final so it was
01:20:48
one of those ones where um the intensity
01:20:52
of the game just sort of got me in in
01:20:54
the red and a lot of the guys were
01:20:57
calling me a traitor the um hammerhead
01:21:00
fans were all abusing me in the
01:21:02
crowd do do you do you does that get to
01:21:05
you or do you thrive in that um it's
01:21:08
kind of banter in a away isn't it or it
01:21:10
is it is and it was um I didn't I
01:21:13
wouldn't say I thrived in it I felt like
01:21:16
like they talk about staying in the like
01:21:18
the top of the curve I'd definitely gone
01:21:20
past it like um over arousal like I
01:21:24
thought made I looked at that game some
01:21:26
really poor decisions but like the
01:21:28
physicality like I was really up for it
01:21:30
in terms of the collisions cuz I was
01:21:32
just so angry and um fired up for the
01:21:36
game like um yeah there's some harsh
01:21:40
words said and my brother didn't speak
01:21:42
to me for a we while after that one but
01:21:44
really like what's what's a we while I
01:21:47
reckon it would have been a couple of
01:21:49
weeks oh my God what about said did your
01:21:51
parents go to the game yeah they were
01:21:53
all there who do they support
01:21:55
one each me usually no no they were
01:21:58
pretty neutral actually I remember that
01:22:00
one cuz my dad had a bet on both of us
01:22:03
to win like taranaki were paying $30 to
01:22:06
win the comp at the start of the year
01:22:08
which is well that wow rank Outsiders no
01:22:11
one gave us a chance and my dad quite
01:22:13
liked those odds and put a little bit of
01:22:16
money on them and then Tasman I think
01:22:19
had a slow start and managed to get a
01:22:21
decent return on them as well so he was
01:22:23
in a wi-1 situation but he was going to
01:22:25
win more if taranaki won so I think he
01:22:28
was financially cheering for me so what
01:22:32
did he have on the game so 100 bucks he
01:22:34
would would have got 3,000 back yeah I
01:22:36
can't remember the exact figures but it
01:22:38
would have been something around that
01:22:39
yeah unreal yeah he was stoked that's
01:22:42
awesome so um so you you and your
01:22:44
brother don't talk for a couple of weeks
01:22:45
then how do you break the ice after that
01:22:47
I honestly can't remember I
01:22:50
think such a great often times you're um
01:22:54
especially when you're in different
01:22:55
teams you don't actually you're not
01:22:57
speaking every day sometimes it is a
01:22:59
couple of weeks before you speak so
01:23:03
um yeah I I don't actually know it was
01:23:05
probably just a normal next time we were
01:23:08
together we were we're good as gold but
01:23:10
definitely felt a little bit of awkward
01:23:11
tension for a while yeah and and when
01:23:13
you reflect on your career now because I
01:23:15
suppose every um every young New
01:23:17
Zealander growing up it's the the yeah
01:23:19
your goal to make the All Blacks yeah um
01:23:21
do do you feel like you got everything
01:23:22
you could out of your career or do you
01:23:24
like there was unfinished business yeah
01:23:26
and I think that's a little bit around
01:23:28
that piece I said before around I felt
01:23:30
like I got the most out of my career
01:23:32
hence why I left um I look back on that
01:23:36
and challenge that sometimes around
01:23:38
whether that was a fair assessment um
01:23:42
whether I could have been an all black I
01:23:44
felt like I potentially could have been
01:23:47
a one to five game all black might have
01:23:50
maybe got a cap if IID continued on that
01:23:54
that pathway but I never felt like I was
01:23:56
going to be a um all black legend or a
01:23:59
long-term all black so I always felt
01:24:01
like um I was pretty limited um and I
01:24:04
was achieving probably as high as I
01:24:06
thought I would so um thought it was
01:24:09
best for me to sort of cash in while I
01:24:11
while I could
01:24:15
um rugby career you never know when it's
01:24:17
going to end and um yeah once I'd had my
01:24:21
family and wanted to sort of set set
01:24:23
ourselves up for
01:24:25
life after and moving overseas at the
01:24:27
time was definitely the right thing for
01:24:29
me yeah oh who knows maybe you'll get
01:24:31
that cap in the future as a
01:24:34
coach who knows um all right we'll go to
01:24:37
some um okay audience uh audience
01:24:40
questions um yeah I put on Instagram
01:24:43
that you're coming in first one was um
01:24:45
question for Jimmy too long to put in
01:24:46
the Box haha ask him if he remembers how
01:24:49
he got home from Crowded House Bar in
01:24:50
New Plymouth after the 2014 itm Cup
01:24:53
Final against tasma
01:24:56
I honestly cannot remember that but I I
01:24:59
remember there being a house
01:25:01
party um it was a massive
01:25:04
night um but does he does he have any
01:25:08
yeah he says the answer is me I was
01:25:10
sober driver for my mates and stumbled
01:25:12
across him and Jamie broader stumbling
01:25:14
along Devon Street PE he owes me macers
01:25:17
cuz he ate my
01:25:19
nuggets remember that at all I don't
01:25:21
remember that but very grateful for that
01:25:23
ride um and sorry about the Nuggets I
01:25:26
will repay you for those nuggets but man
01:25:30
that was that was a good night um yeah I
01:25:33
guess that that was big part of it like
01:25:34
the emotions of that whole week and that
01:25:37
game was just so much to be able to
01:25:40
celebrate after that one was pretty
01:25:42
special and wasn't just that night it
01:25:45
was a a few days after it was um really
01:25:48
good memories with that crew oh how good
01:25:51
um Miller Stewart says ask him about the
01:25:54
slap horse yarn one of the best from
01:25:56
Jimmy slap
01:25:59
horse doesn't ring any bells I'm
01:26:01
guessing that maybe there's some things
01:26:03
here that have come up on your your
01:26:04
podcast that you just don't you have you
01:26:06
got a [ __ ] memory it's like me I
01:26:09
concussions um slap horse yarn doesn't
01:26:13
ring any bells no it doesn't but I'd
01:26:14
love I'd love to be able to share it if
01:26:16
I knew it okay um biggest barrier the
01:26:19
Crusaders face with a new coach SL
01:26:21
missing senior
01:26:22
members yeah that's probably a good one
01:26:25
around um I'm not so sure if it's the
01:26:30
the new coach feel like Rob Penny's
01:26:33
coming and really seamlessly sort of
01:26:35
taking over that role of what Razer did
01:26:39
it people would look from the outside
01:26:42
and probably suggest otherwise and they
01:26:44
cop a lot of he's cooping a lot of
01:26:45
pressure at the moment for for the
01:26:47
record but I think he's doing a really
01:26:48
good
01:26:50
job other pieces around the the players
01:26:53
who have gone that's it's always going
01:26:55
to be um a big gap to fill um Richie
01:26:59
manga Sam white loock couple of the most
01:27:01
influential Super Rugby players ever
01:27:05
probably um not easy to to fill that Gap
01:27:09
um not just in terms of what they do on
01:27:11
the field but off it and the way they
01:27:13
drove standards and um adapted game
01:27:18
plans on the field you C you you can't
01:27:21
really coach that you can um do your
01:27:23
best to sort of educate some of the
01:27:25
young tens and game drivers around these
01:27:29
pictures that they're seeing but
01:27:30
sometimes it's just getting the Reps and
01:27:32
um I think that's probably been the
01:27:34
biggest challenge we've we've found so
01:27:36
far this season but um every game's a
01:27:39
learning piece for these guys so
01:27:41
hopefully by the time this is released
01:27:43
um we've got a very good win to lost rof
01:27:46
and people can um yeah I guess agree
01:27:49
with it yeah um I feel like this is a
01:27:52
statement more of a question um
01:27:54
how fat is that wallet boy sash Jimmy
01:27:57
chew is his
01:27:58
name what's that about how fat is the
01:28:01
wallet that's probably back to my um oh
01:28:03
being a tight ass tight potentially and
01:28:06
yeah um I think but by the way I think
01:28:08
being a tight US is an admirable thing
01:28:10
like um the morning after buying a round
01:28:12
of fireballs or Jager Bombs no one
01:28:14
remembers instant regret you check their
01:28:17
account um did Elliot Dixon score that
01:28:19
try now that is a common question what
01:28:23
TR is this what this was to win the
01:28:24
Super Rugby
01:28:26
2015 um Elliott Dixon scored a very
01:28:29
controversial try um which essentially
01:28:33
won them the game I don't like to watch
01:28:35
that one back cuz I missed one of those
01:28:37
tackles on him um so that one still sort
01:28:40
of haunts me a little bit but I I
01:28:43
believe he dropped it I've spoken to him
01:28:46
he's convinced he scored it but I Reon
01:28:48
he's just just loves that yarn but so
01:28:51
who did ellot he was playing for the
01:28:53
Highlanders when they won the
01:28:54
2015
01:28:56
Super huran yeah so he scored a pretty
01:28:59
good try and beat me in one of those
01:29:01
tackles um how something like that how
01:29:04
long do you beat yourself up for how
01:29:06
long does it take to get over that um oh
01:29:09
I wouldn't say it's like an everyday
01:29:10
thing but when I see it it's just more
01:29:12
of a like oh damn it that was that was
01:29:15
my moment you know but um I I can't say
01:29:18
I think about it too much more than that
01:29:21
I think you you've just got a really
01:29:23
good sort of um attitude to things eh
01:29:26
like I'm thinking other people have had
01:29:27
on the podcast like Shane Cameron he
01:29:29
said it was like seven years before um
01:29:31
he went a whole day without thinking
01:29:32
about the tour fight um Jimmy nisham um
01:29:36
one of the World Cup games that they
01:29:37
lost in a super over or whatever he said
01:29:39
he he thought about that daily for you
01:29:41
know years and still thinks about it um
01:29:43
John T good from shead I recorded a
01:29:45
podcast with him and um he made a joke
01:29:48
on stage that potentially cost them like
01:29:49
a couple of million dollars with a
01:29:51
contract and he said he said he every
01:29:54
every night for seven months had had
01:29:55
wake up at least once in the night and
01:29:57
sort of turn over it um I think the for
01:30:00
me it's around
01:30:03
um the at the end of the day it is a
01:30:06
game it's a game that's there to
01:30:09
entertain um people love watching it
01:30:11
people um enjoy it but it's it's a it's
01:30:16
really it like there's so many more
01:30:17
bigger issues in the world that um
01:30:21
people can be stressed out about than
01:30:23
the fact that I missed a
01:30:25
tackle that potentially cost us the game
01:30:28
I like you can beat yourself up about it
01:30:31
as much as you want like every time I
01:30:34
went out on the field or as a coach now
01:30:36
do everything I can to do my best or get
01:30:39
the result for my team but sometimes
01:30:42
that's not going to be good enough and
01:30:44
um I will make mistakes and it's
01:30:46
around um that's okay as long as you
01:30:49
learn from them and try not to let them
01:30:52
happen again um um that's the reality of
01:30:55
it and then if you're really
01:30:57
overthinking it just pull back and
01:30:59
realize how small you are in this big
01:31:02
world um and that the fact that 10 years
01:31:05
ago I missed a tackle nobody really
01:31:08
cares when you're looking at the whole
01:31:10
picture of the thing so um that's such a
01:31:13
good perspective yeah I think sometimes
01:31:16
pulling back can um give you perspective
01:31:18
and how small you are in this world like
01:31:20
often we think that we're probably more
01:31:22
important than we are and um it can give
01:31:25
you a bit of a reality check yeah um
01:31:27
apart from rugby what is his favorite
01:31:30
thing to do in Christ
01:31:31
chur um well with the three kids soon to
01:31:36
be four very playground heavy the
01:31:39
Margaret May Margaret m park is is a
01:31:42
good one um but there's lots of good
01:31:43
playgrounds around um often on a day off
01:31:47
I like to go out to um Tom beg's Farm
01:31:49
who's a horse trainer I'll go sitting
01:31:52
behind a couple of horses it was a
01:31:55
passion of mine growing up and um
01:31:57
something I've always sort of loved to
01:32:00
loved to do at some point potentially
01:32:02
get behind one and drive in a in a race
01:32:05
but um yeah's a few few things that keep
01:32:08
me busy but the time so I'm limited at
01:32:11
the moment um a lot of guys play golf
01:32:14
and I've just got into this might be a
01:32:15
bit weird but a bit of frisbee golf um
01:32:18
there's a little Frisbee Golf Course
01:32:20
around by my house and really enjoying
01:32:23
just going out and with the kids my
01:32:25
8-year-old's quite good as well so go
01:32:27
out and have a round of frisbee golf to
01:32:30
about 20 minutes to do the course and
01:32:33
bit more time consuming less time
01:32:35
consuming than a real game of golf I'm
01:32:37
chasing balls around left right and
01:32:39
Center so yeah if you've got three kids
01:32:40
in a fourth on the way like even nine
01:32:43
holes of actual golf is going to be a
01:32:45
big ass um what are Jimmy's thoughts on
01:32:48
flotation as a part of recovery
01:32:50
relaxation yeah I'm big big fan of that
01:32:53
so Tim bitman at o Studio that's
01:32:55
actually another uh one of my go-tos in
01:32:58
Christ Church on a day off I'll try and
01:33:00
get into there um have a float or a
01:33:03
sauna or ice bath or a yoga session or
01:33:06
something like that um I really enjoy it
01:33:09
especially when I'm when I'm feeling
01:33:10
worn down or um you know like feeling
01:33:15
like I'm starting to get quite stressed
01:33:16
about things I'll just go and have a 45
01:33:19
minute float where I can just let the
01:33:22
Mind try and go and let it go wherever
01:33:25
it wants to and just come out of there
01:33:27
feeling really refreshed often I fall
01:33:29
asleep especially at the moment with how
01:33:31
busy I am and how fatigued I am um but I
01:33:35
I really enjoy it and I found some huge
01:33:37
benefits from it yeah brilliant uh
01:33:40
favorite player you've coached and why
01:33:43
oh geez that's tough they like kids you
01:33:46
can't have a favorite I think um Ethan
01:33:49
blackhead is someone who is just the
01:33:52
ultimate man to coach I think a lot of
01:33:55
players will say the same thing he's
01:33:56
just such a champion guy he's he just
01:34:00
craves learning he does everything he
01:34:02
can to get better I'm so gutted for him
01:34:05
around his injuries at the moment but
01:34:08
hopefully we'll see him back out on the
01:34:10
field shortly and um yeah he's he's such
01:34:13
a good player and like if you could say
01:34:15
who's the perfect guy to coach or who's
01:34:18
your perfect player that you could model
01:34:20
Academy [ __ ] off it's it's probably Ethan
01:34:22
blackett yeah High praise um do you like
01:34:26
punting on the horses I used to like um
01:34:28
growing up it was a big part of my
01:34:30
upbringing really like spent a lot of
01:34:32
time at tabs my dad was a big pter a lot
01:34:37
of our holidays were at the different
01:34:40
race meetings so um you a lot of the
01:34:44
race meetings a lot of Friday nights
01:34:45
would be down at Alexandre park or with
01:34:48
my grandma and my dad and all those sort
01:34:51
of memories um as a kid and then as I
01:34:56
grew up I still sort of loved the game
01:34:58
and I I I still enjoy it but I I haven't
01:34:59
bet for sort of the last five years um
01:35:04
CU I was thinking it would go against a
01:35:05
few um gor Pockets yeah it would sort of
01:35:08
go against you'd probably hate losing
01:35:09
money I did hate losing money I guess
01:35:11
the thing for me I was I was actually I
01:35:14
know a lot of people say this but I was
01:35:15
actually quite good at it um I know a
01:35:18
lot of punters believe they are but um I
01:35:23
would get accounts shut down
01:35:26
um so bet 365 a lot of people who bet
01:35:30
would probably know that um betting
01:35:32
ageny soon as you start winning they'll
01:35:34
restrict your account so you can't bet
01:35:36
um as soon as you're losing they'll give
01:35:38
you um fre free credits to sort of
01:35:41
promote your gambling
01:35:43
so my um account got restricted pretty
01:35:47
quickly and then I started buying guys
01:35:49
accounts off them and start started
01:35:51
building syndicates and
01:35:54
built a pretty significant Syndicate at
01:35:56
the Hurricanes which had eight people
01:35:58
and so that was eight different accounts
01:36:00
for me to sort of get shut down before
01:36:03
we so we could build this Kitty and
01:36:05
build enough in the kitty that we bought
01:36:07
a
01:36:07
horse um which has gone through
01:36:11
different horses and we've still got a
01:36:12
horse together now that that Syndicate
01:36:14
but um yeah had a lot of I guess the
01:36:19
thing for me around gambling the
01:36:21
addiction piece for me was the time
01:36:23
spent on it like it was never a money
01:36:25
and like because of my GS Pockets I
01:36:27
would never have allowed it to get them
01:36:30
the loss of money but it
01:36:32
was so much time spent on it and like
01:36:35
researching researching watching um
01:36:38
everything like just it's endless you
01:36:40
can get up in the morning you can watch
01:36:42
races all the way to toight and I found
01:36:44
myself doing that quite regularly
01:36:46
especially on days off pre kids and then
01:36:50
I guess once kids came into the equation
01:36:52
that was the moment where I realized
01:36:54
that hang
01:36:55
on um I can't keep sneaking off to the
01:36:58
toilet to watch to watch race after race
01:37:01
after race you doing that well I I
01:37:03
didn't want to be watching them in front
01:37:04
of the kids and my wife was never a big
01:37:06
fan of it so um I knew that um that was
01:37:11
the point where I was like oh I've got
01:37:12
to I've got to give this up like um it's
01:37:15
just not worth it and I I loved the I
01:37:19
Lov the gambling side of I Lov the mates
01:37:21
part like especially being in a
01:37:23
syndicate the group of it like going to
01:37:25
a pub and having a b with five mates and
01:37:28
just riding home winners was something I
01:37:30
really enjoyed but once I realized that
01:37:33
[ __ ] it's taking away time from my kids
01:37:34
and my family and um I didn't want that
01:37:37
to happen I knew I had to um pull the
01:37:39
pen you seem to have quite good
01:37:41
self-discipline like and quite a good
01:37:43
self- awareness so if you're aware that
01:37:44
something's not working for you um you
01:37:46
seem to be quite good at knocking it on
01:37:47
the head yeah I guess means you don't
01:37:49
have the the addictive gene potentially
01:37:52
yeah or I I was probably addicted to it
01:37:54
for a while but I think that I'm not
01:37:56
sure how you get self-awareness but I
01:37:58
think it's such a underrated skill to be
01:38:01
able to have to be able to be aware of
01:38:02
what you're doing and what harm it's
01:38:04
doing or in rugby like what are your
01:38:07
strengths what are your weaknesses or in
01:38:08
life what are your strengths what are
01:38:09
your weaknesses and once you know that
01:38:12
you can work on your weaknesses or play
01:38:14
to your strengths but that
01:38:15
self-awareness piece is such a important
01:38:17
part I think yeah yeah and you um are
01:38:21
you proud of yourself you you you know
01:38:22
you like who who you see in the mirror
01:38:25
yeah I think so um that's probably quite
01:38:28
an awkward thing to say like it is it is
01:38:32
but it's well I look back at what I've
01:38:34
achieved and man I I think I've
01:38:36
overachieved massively and um I hear
01:38:41
people talk about me or the perception
01:38:43
that um I guess on the podcast or what
01:38:47
I've built is that I'm a a good lad or a
01:38:50
good person and I'm really proud of of
01:38:53
that side of me like um I
01:38:56
won the team Man of the Year a lot at
01:38:58
the Hurricanes because I felt like
01:39:00
people really appreciated the team man
01:39:02
that I was I put the team first I
01:39:04
wasn't ego driven or um myself driven so
01:39:09
um I'm really proud of those
01:39:11
achievements probably more so than what
01:39:13
I achieved on the field I think that
01:39:15
person that you are is so important
01:39:17
that's the one that people remember and
01:39:18
I feel like because of that I've created
01:39:21
mates and really good relationships with
01:39:23
so many people um throughout the world
01:39:26
that now with my podcast I try and get
01:39:28
them on and um share their stories as
01:39:31
well I think that's a good place to end
01:39:33
it James Marshall absolute lad mate
01:39:36
you're a lad appreciate it oh mate I
01:39:38
appreciate you being so generous with
01:39:39
your time um thanks for being engaged
01:39:41
for like an hour 42 I'm was your mind
01:39:44
wandering are you thinking about
01:39:45
tonight's game or no no I haven't mate
01:39:47
like I I love that side of podcast like
01:39:50
once you're in it you're in the
01:39:52
conversation there's no distractions
01:39:53
there's no phones you're not um you're
01:39:55
not doing anything El you're in your
01:39:57
conversation and once you finished
01:39:58
you're like well hour 40 That's I didn't
01:40:01
feel like I was talking for that long so
01:40:03
um I really enjoyed it I appreciate the
01:40:05
insights mate and um yeah best of luck
01:40:07
for the rest of the Crusader season by
01:40:09
the time uh this podcast goes out we'll
01:40:11
be deep into it um yeah hopefully you
01:40:13
turn things around appreciate it mate
01:40:15
thank you
01:40:23
oh
