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[Music]
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[Applause]
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[Music]
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D on N welcome to my podcast thanks
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I made it I'm so pleased this finally uh
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finally happened I think it's worth
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probably um opening with um so the
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podcast has been going about two and a
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half years now when it was um maybe a
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month old or three or four episodes in
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you reached out to me um for a chat
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about like sponsoring like real early on
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and you were the first sponsor I had on
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the podcast ever yeah well we we loved
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it like you you got you're doing some
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great stuff actually I've been doing
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some research cuz I thought oh man I
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better see what you're talking about you
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know I've got something to say um and so
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I've spent the last couple of days just
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watching the podcast and I I've loved it
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real surprise ones actually you know
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Matthew Ridge who knew you know it's
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like awesome just all those names from
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the past and people that you haven't had
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those insights so that was why we liked
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it at the start and you've continued on
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it's great no oh it's it's one of those
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um things that that I'll never forget
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you know so we had a meeting and um you
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you gave me a little bit of money and
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you said it's not a lot of money but I
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don't have a lot of marketing money but
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you know once other businesses see
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you've got a sponsor on board maybe
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it'll start a sort of tipping Tipping
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Point effect and it it kind of did in a
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way and I'll um I'll never forget that
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it's really cool thanks and I've been a
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big fan of views for um a very long time
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as you know there's even um I even
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emailed you a couple of times over the
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years trying to buy like a small share
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of your
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company I know I know we should I
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probably should have taken you up on
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that now no I I love what you do at
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[ __ ] and disaster and this is going to
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be this is going to be a great chat we
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can talk about the business stuff uh
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rewind the clock talk about the Cricut
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stuff and but basically I just want to
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know what makes you tick really um but
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let's start with um these two little
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books I found oh yeah uh put out by
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shell Cricket called the Great Little
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Cricket signature book so this is uh
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this is um back pre- social media when
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you were playing Cricket for New Zealand
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and I suppose um people wouldn't come
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and get selfies they' just get
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autographs right yeah yes very much so
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this was a profile of Dion NES so I've
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got when was the last time you saw these
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books by the way oh gosh it's been a
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while I'm pretty sure my mother bought
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one there's one somewhere floting at
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home Margo butcher put these out she did
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a it was ahead of her time really like
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this is now you know bread and butter
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for sports people they do it all the
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time on social media but yeah I guess
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you know hard copy social media so I I
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thought I'll run through some of the
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some of the questions that were put to
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you by Margot butcher in the early '90s
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and see how your answers compare now 30
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years on so
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nicknames uh nashy would be it now but
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back then it would have been Woody or
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woodshack or Dasher I suppose you why
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Woody uh Woody was um well initially
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when I went to University I was a bit of
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a cruel nickname cuz I you know I met
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this new bunch of guys and I was some of
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them were older Cricket guys who a
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couple years older at University than me
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so I was trying to fit in so I kept
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asking dumb questions so one of these
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guys Carlo daa nicknamed me Woody off
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chairs you know because I kept asking
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dumb questions and um but then over time
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the rest of the cricketers sort of like
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could I it became woodchuck because you
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know how much wood could have woodchuck
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chuck whatever and then chucker and then
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all the sort of sort of the derivatives
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um and I think they I was always
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grateful for the net that they evolved
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to a point where it moved away from
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Woody from cheers and into some sort of
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other but interestingly when I got um
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picked in the New Zealand team when I
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was still at University I was I was 20
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and um I got picked and I a whole bunch
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of people came up to me after I got
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selected for the black caps and they
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were like wow I always thought your last
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name was wood I was like I was like
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Woody you know I was like um so anyway
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so I I obviously hadn't done my job in
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telling them my proper name so if you
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catch up with any of the the old guys
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from the '90s now does anyone still call
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you Woody I if I hear Woody called out I
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know where that person's from and I I I
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know I know them well yeah um favorite
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music
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oh yeah shoot well I jazz is probably if
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I had to pick one that I had to live
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with forever I would probably go Jazz um
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where I think back then I was probably
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fully into my grunge scene um I still
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like grung and punk and alternative
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music probably um been doing a little
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Darkness sort of di Deep dive of late
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I've been watching his um podcast or or
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Channel Justin Hawkins yeah yeah and um
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I've been loving it and he's just sort
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of got this really nice demeanor but I
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went and saw them live at the power
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station and what amazing musicians they
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were and so I've sort of like been I
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don't know I could find myself enjoying
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which is I guess a little bit Glam
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glamrock meets meets um grunge but um
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yeah Jazz I guess you back then it was
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blues and rock but you you've always
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been into your music eh you you you play
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guitar um yeah yeah well Define play
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yeah badly you badly I've um always I've
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got a Gibson SG which is uh I got from
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America years ago so which always
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reminds me of when I was growing up
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there was a guy in daral where I heard
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um a gr Nial Force scoop which was the
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most expensive bat you could buy back
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then um but he didn't know how to use it
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and so I was I I met when I bring out my
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SG in front of actual musicians I always
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feel like feel like that guy and I'm
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like oh I'm always just sort of
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embarrassed that I've got it but um but
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I love it you know oh you you go right
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don't you like you've got a you got a
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fun band with um um Jeff Ross the 42
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below they still a thing the camel toes
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oh yeah in fact they're trying to get
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something going again now it's been a
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long time between drinks yeah je from 42
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below in Aquia candles craigan is one of
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the greatest New Zealand league players
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all time is it a threepiece or anyone
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else no we got another guy Nick Ross
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who's lead singer and he's no relation
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to Jeff but he um he's great front man
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and then um heus G from the Fiers has
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sort of like floats around um yeah in
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the background there and um Dave um
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Rollins from clap clap right Pops in
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every now and then and does a little
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sort of helps they they sort of help
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give us a bit of structure and support
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when we need it coaching the musical
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version of the black Clash there's a
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couple of very much so very much so yeah
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uh worst job worst job you had this was
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your answer by the way in the early '90s
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well my worst job over here was well
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would probably still be picking squash
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or working in my father's Timber Mill I
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can't it's it's a pretty fine line
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between the two what did I say then
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pumpkin picking oh yeah there you go
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squash yeah pumpkin yeah yeah right um
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best thing about being a cricketer oh
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this is going to make your toes
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curl shoot this is not a great
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answer God what did I say uh the best
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thing about being a cricketer would have
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been um the big lunches I supp like
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great lunches there you go you look you
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look back now as um as a like a retired
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former you know New Zealand cricketer
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and New Zealand cricket captain what do
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you think now on hindsight from the
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perspective of a dude in his 50s oh
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shoot yeah early 50s Tom early 50s um um
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what do I think
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now what is the best
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thing that is it's a it's almost tougher
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to answer that retrospectively um I
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think the the the um expulsion of of of
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uh B the burden of sort of expectation
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and talent I think getting a little bit
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of that monkey off your back and the
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confidence I think that you gain from
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that is probably what Cricket offered uh
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enough that's a really answers it but in
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terms of the cricket itself I mean I
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would have to say the achievement of
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within a team and and within a group and
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I I did at one point our our era really
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got it together and the work that we had
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to go into doing that and understanding
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the sacrifices and the effort made to
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get to a point where we were were sort
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of a competitive world class side um it
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took sort of probably four years of
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buildup to get to that point you know
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and that then at lasted probably 18
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months or two years before we sort of
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dropped off that form but the work and
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the team effort and the commitment as a
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group is what probably the the biggest
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takeway that is a great thoughtful
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answer I mean the easy answer would have
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just been to say like you the
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relationships or the friendships or yeah
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whatever I I appreciate that I even saw
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um Chris kin on Instagram yesterday like
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getting excited about the 25 year
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reunion of the 199 team oh good yeah oh
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so that's cats out of the bag yeah no
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well we're trying to do that down in
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Wellington um yeah I mean well that's
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probably the era of the team that for me
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and maybe Kenzie and a few other people
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that around that time that we got our we
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got our [ __ ] together you know and we
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prior to that we you know these photos
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in this era we were sort of a talented
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bunch of young Young Guns Young Guns you
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know but we had no framework no guidance
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a lot of the senior players left in 92
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after that 92 World Cup so we were sort
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of left to our own devices to a lar
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extent we only used had one coach at the
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time and sometimes they were in and out
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really quickly so there wasn't the
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support um and so we just were left um
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so that era finally got it shipped
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together in late 99 yeah so seven years
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after this and if there's one thing I
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really hate it's what what is it
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now what do I hate now uh taxes at the
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end of the financial years really yeah
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God Oakland Council Oakland transport
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yeah um yeah slow drivers um I think I
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don't know what do I really hate I I'm
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trying not to hate anything I'm trying
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to be more mow in my Approach um I I'm
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hating how uh hard it is for me to
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change my own behavior that's what I'm
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hating at the moment hm what do you want
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to
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change I would like to sort of be calmer
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and less
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vocal I see I I suppose our interactions
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have only been sort of the occasional
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meeting or the occasional thing so maybe
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I haven't been long enough time with you
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but you you seem C and mellow oh yeah I
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I put on a good I put on a good front
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but no I mean what I what I would mean I
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yeah I think I probably am experienced
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mostly it's around my my kids in the
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Sport and expectations and sort of any
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competitive environment I was such I was
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always so
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competitive a competitive environment
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that I have no control over which is
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watching my kids place for example oh
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hello oh here he is Kanye hello
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Kanye it's JJ here JJ come
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in hey how are you everyone how's it
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going are you do you want to do you want
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to do you want to say good out for a
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second hey take over oh wow tell about
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your CLA to fame have you seen anything
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Tom him
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yet hi Dion JJ he remembers me so that's
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a good
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start do you remember your first ever
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interview on the radio
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oh no to remind me remind me thought you
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always remembered your
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first well I probably do but tell me
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what did I do do I stuff it up badly no
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no it was uh way back in
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1991 maybe 92 I was in uh tanaki working
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on nfm oh no I think I do and you came
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in for an interview and you said this is
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my first time on the
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radio I think I do remember that now
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gosh that's years ago so we were been at
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Pokey Cur Park that would have been like
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um one of those Queens I think we would
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have been playing Australia that would
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oh my gosh there was a that's right
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before it all kicked off it's so funny
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that you remember what what games you
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were playing when I just don't even
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remember that I just remember who I was
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interviewing oh I remember I remember
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cuz um Alan border was playing and was
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and you poy Park is so beautiful you
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can't forget it right and um I remember
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I walked out and you know when you're
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playing in front of the absolute heroes
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of like these guys were like 35 year old
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I was like 19 or something yeah and they
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were just like my heroes and I bed so
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meekly and quietly in the end of like
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about an hour which i' done survived
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pretty well Alan bord said wellplayed
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boy or something like that and honest my
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chest and my swelled like this I walked
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off floating on air was like my God
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spoke to me that's amazing was it the
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Richard Headley days yeah he was just
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finished I think but Martin Crow was
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around and they are legends that was a
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really big time in cricket oh yeah okay
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you he doesn't even remember interview I
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do well it was really great to see you
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okay to it fine get your own podcast I
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like he was really interested talking to
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me that it's fine I'll leaving with you
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dropped Richard Hy cuz that's the only
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name you
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think obviously I don't know much about
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Cricket except you don't want to be
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hitting the googly see you guys all
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right get out
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out um yeah you would have you would
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have hated media commitments back then I
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suppose cuz you're the new guy on the
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team it's like oh getting nashed to do
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the radio oh gosh I didn't yeah it's
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like and you were just so bad at it like
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you know we were just I had no idea what
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to say I remember I do remember after in
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getting infed by Paul Holmes once and I
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was in London and it was overnight and
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we'd finished and he was in the morning
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so it must have been for his radio and
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he said like something like um uh where
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are you and we're at this Cafe on Baker
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Street called Cafe suie we're having a
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you know celebrating this game and and I
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said oh you know it's where um Sherlock
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Holmes used to hang out and there was
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this like really long pregnant pause
00:14:25
when I when he must have been thinking
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does he think she homes is
00:14:33
real oh my God that's amazing was that
00:14:35
interview because when when you played
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at Lords okay we'll get to that that's
00:14:39
going to be one of the to this day one
00:14:40
of the highlights of your life oh yeah
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for sure for sure for sure okay sh we've
00:14:45
been got qu now already I'll just
00:14:46
there's a couple of other bits in this
00:14:47
book uh best breakfast wheat bcks and
00:14:49
cold milk coated in Sugar yeah which is
00:14:52
so if you were a professional athlete
00:14:54
now and that was your answer yeah I mean
00:14:56
it'd be good for potential sanitarium
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sponsor
00:14:59
yeah yeah um best piece of clothing ever
00:15:02
owned bright yellow Daisy shirt that
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attracts insects oh yeah I did love that
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shirt yeah I was trying all my see all
00:15:09
my friends were we were all a bit fruity
00:15:11
at University right we weren't beer
00:15:13
drinkers like most of my mates were all
00:15:15
sort of I don't know bit more on the
00:15:17
Arty scene you know smoked a bit of pot
00:15:19
and and hung out in in the park you know
00:15:21
they were sort of like so I sort of
00:15:23
caught that that dress code a bit so
00:15:26
trying we're always trying on different
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shirts different sort of you know
00:15:31
strange um Jack opposition that way
00:15:33
between having those Ary sort of friends
00:15:34
and also being this like jock for lack
00:15:36
of a bit attemp yes yeah I yeah I mean I
00:15:39
I think Cricket probably lends itself to
00:15:41
it more than some sports and I don't
00:15:43
know that like in some ways it was a bit
00:15:46
of a coping strategy as well I think you
00:15:48
know a little bit of trying to make uh a
00:15:50
life outside or away from that
00:15:53
competitive environment um and you know
00:15:56
I I just found them really good guys as
00:15:58
well they you know they were into
00:16:00
interesting stuff right you know so they
00:16:01
were off on ski trips or mountain
00:16:03
climbing or you know doing going to
00:16:06
theater or doing stuff which was just
00:16:08
for my world was like wow this is crazy
00:16:11
you know and and and interesting so I I
00:16:14
found it like a nice a great outlet and
00:16:16
I still do you know like all of those
00:16:18
mates most of those mates are still my
00:16:20
best mates today you know yeah when you
00:16:23
look back on that guy um what are you
00:16:25
most proud of and least proud of
00:16:29
I I I I'm really proud of that guy like
00:16:31
that guy had come a long way you know he
00:16:32
come from dargaville and ended up at
00:16:35
University and he was on his way just
00:16:37
about breaking into the New Zealand side
00:16:38
at 20 uh life was you know I'd achieved
00:16:42
a
00:16:43
lot you know and I I didn't think of it
00:16:47
from coming from a you know a background
00:16:50
that that that was tougher to achieve
00:16:52
those things you know but you know I
00:16:54
just but um yeah I'm there's nothing I'm
00:16:58
you know obviously
00:17:00
as it turned out I wish I could go back
00:17:02
and give him some sound advice on how to
00:17:04
be a professional Sportsman how to look
00:17:06
after his body how to um you know how to
00:17:10
mentally get through it you know like um
00:17:13
not long after this I got about two
00:17:15
years after this I got a contract to go
00:17:16
and play in England for 6 months and you
00:17:19
know it that was a huge honor back there
00:17:21
there were only 17 International
00:17:22
contracts in the world so you know I was
00:17:26
it was a bit of an ego boost but also so
00:17:29
a huge honor but I had no no coping
00:17:33
strategy I had I wasn't fit enough I
00:17:34
wasn't strong enough mentally tough
00:17:36
enough you know just it was just
00:17:38
exhausting um and so it would be nice to
00:17:41
be able to go back and say Hey you make
00:17:43
you're about to get some opportunities
00:17:45
here's some bitter ways to go about
00:17:46
making these decisions but was anyone
00:17:49
physically strong enough though like I
00:17:50
like the knowledge we have now in terms
00:17:52
of strength and conditioning and rehab
00:17:53
and everything else yeah no not really
00:17:56
and the ones that we got lucky I think
00:17:58
you know um and you know I tried really
00:18:02
hard when I went over there and it was
00:18:03
just so long like we would play and if
00:18:05
you if you're in a successful team which
00:18:07
I was um you would play four day game
00:18:11
and then in the middle of the four game
00:18:12
there there'd be a one day game so that
00:18:15
meant you were playing for five days in
00:18:16
a row and then for there was always a
00:18:18
sixth day which was another one- day
00:18:20
competition and these competitions just
00:18:22
sort of begin and began excuse me ended
00:18:25
so if you're a bad team you dropped out
00:18:26
earlier and you got a bit more of a
00:18:28
break but if you keep winning like we
00:18:30
did meant you playing six days a week
00:18:32
for virtually for not for for 6 months
00:18:35
and then quite often on the seventh day
00:18:38
you drive to the next venue which would
00:18:40
be you know every second week would be
00:18:43
away so I remember one day where you
00:18:45
finished on a like a Monday or Sunday or
00:18:47
whatever it was and ended up driving to
00:18:49
Durham from from London you know it's
00:18:51
like 7 hour drive or something so it's
00:18:53
just crazy you know is that is that why
00:18:56
your back ended up [ __ ] just too much
00:18:58
yeah I think so yeah I always remember
00:19:00
um Tom moody this Australian West
00:19:03
Australian big tall guy he was the
00:19:04
Worcester Pro and I'm I played against
00:19:07
wora I did quite well against him and
00:19:09
after the game he pulled me aside and he
00:19:11
just came over and it's just me and him
00:19:13
time he goes man you got to learn how to
00:19:15
Bow within yourself you know and just
00:19:17
slow down a bit go off a short run
00:19:19
otherwise you're never going to last and
00:19:21
I was like I remember thinking is this
00:19:23
guy Aussie guy trying to stitch me up
00:19:25
here and you know have me on and I was
00:19:27
like but he's the only guy and the whole
00:19:29
time he tried to offer me some actual
00:19:31
sound advice and I just wish I had a
00:19:34
listened oh yeah yeah there's that
00:19:37
saying um that youth is wasted on
00:19:39
the it's like too much testosterone or
00:19:42
something man just yeah I did one of
00:19:45
those um uh Treasure Island shows years
00:19:47
and years ago with with doly and he he
00:19:49
was [ __ ] as well like there was some
00:19:50
nights where he couldn't even lie down
00:19:52
properly his back was that soy are you
00:19:54
okay now yeah no I'm good now I am I am
00:19:57
I've got a new hi just got a new
00:19:59
replacement so that's all good um but um
00:20:02
no back wise sweet you know I think
00:20:05
generally it's helped me keep fit
00:20:07
because you I I'm sort of conscious that
00:20:09
got to stay on top of my phys you know
00:20:11
physicality just to avoid all those
00:20:13
things cuz like doly i' had stress
00:20:16
frates either side just collapsed so
00:20:18
those things never fully heal so you
00:20:20
sort of just put up with them but you
00:20:22
sort of just become stiff and a bit you
00:20:24
know that that fuses itself over time um
00:20:27
but yeah no doly was well we played a
00:20:30
lot together doly and yeah we used to
00:20:32
share our um
00:20:34
volaran dosing was like it was a bit
00:20:37
like you know would dose up he he he
00:20:41
always had doly was a big fan of the
00:20:43
ones that you put up your bum and I was
00:20:44
like h i having to try them one and I
00:20:47
was like a doly I think I just stick to
00:20:49
the swallow I'll run the risk with the
00:20:51
stomach stomach off broo the suppository
00:20:54
gets into your blood how much quicker
00:20:56
how much time are you sa oh we hit all
00:20:58
down pet you know if you take an aspirin
00:21:00
with them it thins the blood gets
00:21:02
through faster was like yeah sweet is
00:21:04
that a true story yeah are yeah man we
00:21:07
were all sopping notes yeah yeah okay
00:21:10
let's um there's so much about the
00:21:11
cricket stuff that I want to get into
00:21:12
but I first of we'll focus on the the
00:21:14
business stuff so um so you finished
00:21:17
playing Cricket for New Zealand then
00:21:19
this I've listened to heaps of podcast
00:21:20
you've been on and the story goes um
00:21:24
you're working out at a gym or something
00:21:25
Jeff Ross who's um done very well for
00:21:28
himself with um eoa and before that 42
00:21:30
below he comes up to you and you asks
00:21:32
you what you're doing did you know him
00:21:34
did you have a relationship with him or
00:21:36
well it it it actually wasn't it wasn't
00:21:38
Jeff um it was his business partner um
00:21:40
so um so Grant Baker was sort of like
00:21:43
the
00:21:45
um um uh there was this they had this
00:21:49
great sort of Duo and Grant Baker was
00:21:51
the business head in the na um Steve
00:21:54
Sinclair was the sort of numbers guy um
00:21:57
Jeff was the um you know sort of the
00:22:00
creative so they were uh this sort of
00:22:03
magical um team so yeah so I went to a
00:22:06
uh a gym with um one of them and then
00:22:08
they just s said come on what do what
00:22:10
are you doing with yourself and um and I
00:22:12
said I actually I'm going to a bottled
00:22:14
water you know I thought do this bottled
00:22:16
water and um he goes oh we want to do a
00:22:19
bottled of water come on and and and
00:22:20
meet the teams and he said WR it bring
00:22:22
it bring in your business plan so I was
00:22:24
like oh yes sweet so went home went to
00:22:26
my went to Bernie I don't even think
00:22:27
we're married or maybe we were bit and I
00:22:29
said [ __ ] I've got a business plan was
00:22:32
was there Google then or no no no [ __ ]
00:22:34
no no this is like know yeah 2003 or
00:22:38
something yeah I don't know it was a
00:22:39
long time but um anyway it was a great
00:22:42
introduction and met them and they they
00:22:44
pushed them my business plan to one side
00:22:46
pretty much straight away you know and
00:22:48
said oh yeah okay well let's have a look
00:22:50
come and do it with us we'll build the
00:22:51
plan together shall we so that was a and
00:22:54
that was like business 101 you know it
00:22:55
was just like coming inside with these
00:22:57
hard notes some hard-nosed young sales
00:23:00
guys some really creative guys and just
00:23:03
this energy of in sort of um
00:23:06
entrepreneurial energy that was just
00:23:08
happening at the time in an exciting
00:23:10
category you know vodka was blowing up
00:23:12
around the world it was sort of you know
00:23:14
parties parties were sort of all
00:23:17
involved all the time so you felt like
00:23:19
it was like just fun um but at the same
00:23:22
time you're learning all these quite
00:23:24
good business sort of things and it was
00:23:26
all about sales like that when it's sold
00:23:28
everyone had to go about 42 below being
00:23:31
just a marketing story but internally
00:23:34
the culture was so hardcore sales right
00:23:37
every Monday morning every Monday
00:23:38
morning we'd have these meetings and it
00:23:39
was like from the person on the front
00:23:41
desk to the you know accountant if you
00:23:44
all expected to have sold something in
00:23:46
the last week you know and and so it's
00:23:48
just either to friends or family or
00:23:50
overseas and so it was a really good
00:23:54
environment to learn and cut your teeth
00:23:55
in so what was your job there were you
00:23:57
sort of in marketing no so we did did a
00:23:59
water business and20 420 and so they let
00:24:02
me I bought I paid bought in 25% and
00:24:06
they funded 75% and and we were sort of
00:24:10
a subsidiary of the 42 and we would go
00:24:12
and try and sell it into the bars the
00:24:13
idea was you know you people would drink
00:24:16
of water every town every now and then
00:24:19
between the their drinks and
00:24:21
responsibility corporate respons St to
00:24:23
come in so we there's this idea that and
00:24:25
if we could call it the 420 water is the
00:24:26
water that's in the Vodka so it's pure
00:24:28
driven snow and all that sort of stuff
00:24:30
so it was just that was the idea um and
00:24:32
it was it sort of worked quite well we
00:24:34
we're going okay um and then um it got
00:24:38
sold with it got tagged along when they
00:24:41
bikard bought the the Vodka so it was a
00:24:44
a good exit and you know after know two
00:24:47
years maybe 18 months no two no two and
00:24:50
a half years actually sorry um it was
00:24:52
like in and out you know it's like wow
00:24:54
this business Li it's easy did you do
00:24:57
quite well out of it
00:24:58
oh well I got tagged along so we were
00:25:00
all part of the 42 below shares we all
00:25:03
had to buy into the big company and then
00:25:05
I had to buy into that one and that got
00:25:07
valued um in probably a generous
00:25:10
valuation to be honest because it was
00:25:11
like let's just get this deal done you
00:25:13
know no wants to mess around so it was
00:25:15
just sort of easy you know and I didn't
00:25:16
have to actually do like I'd done all
00:25:19
the building of the business and The
00:25:20
Branding and the selling and traveling
00:25:22
around i' done and sourcing all so I'd
00:25:23
done all of the work but when it came to
00:25:26
selling it I just got tagged along so I
00:25:28
didn't have much to do on that part of
00:25:30
it yeah I feel like this is part of your
00:25:32
like I've listened to so many podcasts
00:25:34
over the last few days with you on and
00:25:35
you you do seem to downplay a lot of
00:25:37
stuff in your life is this oh yeah well
00:25:41
I yeah I don't know when when you've
00:25:43
done something well are you good at at
00:25:45
owning it and saying yeah I [ __ ] did
00:25:47
really well then or are you just a
00:25:49
deflector well I'm from darville right
00:25:51
and it's like if you T poppy thing yeah
00:25:54
I think so you just like I was conscious
00:25:57
growing up that do a sh off right and
00:26:00
you know I you you stand out when you're
00:26:02
a sh in a small town in New Zealand and
00:26:05
sometimes that's good sometimes not so
00:26:07
good you know and I I remember
00:26:10
being very much aware of when I was sort
00:26:13
of probably too late catching on that
00:26:16
I'd just push myself out into the middle
00:26:19
of the ring you know with without
00:26:21
realizing it you know what I mean and I
00:26:23
and then it's like ah SH now you know
00:26:26
I've done it again you know um and then
00:26:28
you know sometimes I'd be able to box my
00:26:31
way out of it and other times you know
00:26:33
there'd be too many people to take down
00:26:34
you know so it was like so I think
00:26:38
partly that forms it but then the other
00:26:40
part is like
00:26:42
internally I don't know there's not I I
00:26:46
think I I think I could probably do with
00:26:48
being a bit easier on myself that's part
00:26:50
of like I think what I was talking about
00:26:52
before you know trying to re shape or
00:26:55
reframe that mindset so that it's um um
00:26:59
you know less self-critical and and
00:27:02
maybe U but it's it's also hard wide to
00:27:07
some extent you know it's hard yeah you
00:27:09
and I are about the same age and um so
00:27:11
yeah being a blo hard was a thing the
00:27:13
last thing you wanted to be was a blow
00:27:15
hard which I I suppose part of being a
00:27:17
blow hard is like just talking yourself
00:27:18
up about anything yeah well I just would
00:27:22
mine was more physical I would like cuz
00:27:24
I was quite good at my sports or doing
00:27:26
anything so i' I would always just show
00:27:28
off physically and and verbally but like
00:27:31
physically mainly you know and then when
00:27:33
I when I threw you know when I jump on
00:27:36
the court bare feet and no and everyone
00:27:39
else has been practicing whatever and
00:27:40
I'd throw a three or something from on
00:27:42
the basketball court and just you know I
00:27:44
couldn't help myself but tell get bit's
00:27:46
face and tell them you know um and that
00:27:48
stuff like that you know just times 100
00:27:51
oh yeah cuz you were really good um you
00:27:53
were just a good allrounder right good
00:27:54
at Cricket obviously um but good at
00:27:56
rugby and basketball as well lot like
00:27:58
Jeff Wilson a je waser well Jeff was a
00:28:02
amazing allrounder um yeah I mean Jeff
00:28:05
was my com predator in cricket early on
00:28:08
for sure like I actually to such an
00:28:11
extent we would been going at it from an
00:28:13
age group he was the he was the number
00:28:16
one allrounder and I was like The
00:28:18
Pretender up and coming almost he's a
00:28:21
six months younger than me I think but
00:28:23
he was the one in the south is and then
00:28:26
I came late into it I grew late so sort
00:28:29
of all of a sudden I was challenging him
00:28:30
um and we just used to go head forhead
00:28:33
you know and I was like it was great but
00:28:35
you do something well and he instead of
00:28:38
him trying to put you down Jeff would
00:28:40
just come out and do it better the next
00:28:42
time you know and so then you were like
00:28:43
well I'm going to do it better and say
00:28:45
and we ended up playing together at Taro
00:28:47
and it was like that and it was such a
00:28:49
healthy competition I've never known
00:28:50
anyone any competition of after that
00:28:52
that was as healthy as that cuz he just
00:28:55
he had this inner belief that he was so
00:28:57
good when you did he'll do it better the
00:28:59
next time um and so we used to we used
00:29:01
to beat teams by us two Fielding at Mid
00:29:03
on and mid off in cricket and just being
00:29:06
we would just compete each other like
00:29:08
he'd dive for a ball and miss it by six
00:29:10
feet right and I'd be like what are you
00:29:12
doing a show off and then eventually
00:29:14
he'd do the same thing and then he'd get
00:29:16
a fingertip to it he'd jump up run after
00:29:18
it pick it up throw and run the guy out
00:29:20
and I'd be like so then I'd have to try
00:29:22
and do the same you know and so you just
00:29:24
we were just competing each other we
00:29:26
weren't even worried about the opp we
00:29:28
were playing so when he got picked for
00:29:30
the All Blacks it was just like it was
00:29:32
like a I didn't even see it coming I was
00:29:33
like oh my God this like guy's been
00:29:35
pulled out of my life who I've been
00:29:37
competing with and um and yeah obviously
00:29:40
is a great rugby player as well great
00:29:41
all black yeah it's it's mind-blowing
00:29:44
really okay Alo back to the business
00:29:46
stuff so yes so 42 below sales to bikard
00:29:50
um you still work on bikard though right
00:29:52
I and I heard a story this is where the
00:29:54
idea of um getting into skare came about
00:29:57
some dude in a new York moisturizing his
00:29:59
hands yeah well I sort of like I did I I
00:30:01
left when the guys left so we all you
00:30:03
know got got out um and then um they the
00:30:07
guys set up a thing called the bakery
00:30:09
and they invested in about five
00:30:10
businesses and I invested in one which
00:30:13
was a a a outerwear sort of a like a
00:30:16
gortex a natural gortex out ofwar using
00:30:18
Marino wall anyway the um after about a
00:30:22
year the science of it failed we
00:30:23
couldn't get enough hydrostatic head and
00:30:26
so it sort of we just
00:30:28
de we've lost lost on that one so we'll
00:30:31
do that and I got sort of they asked me
00:30:34
to come into the beer and I was like ah
00:30:35
actually I'm sick of doing alcohol so I
00:30:38
just sort of said oh no I'll step aside
00:30:40
and um at that time bardi needed a
00:30:43
marketing director so they said oh well
00:30:45
would you like to come back in and work
00:30:47
in the marketing for and and you know
00:30:49
work under bicat so I was like yeah it
00:30:51
sounds
00:30:52
interesting and so I did that for 3
00:30:55
years after after from there and um
00:30:58
probably learned more about what what
00:31:01
not to do or just like you know how
00:31:03
different corporate life is to ENT
00:31:05
entrepreneur life but I it was equally
00:31:08
it was probably ultimately a bit
00:31:09
frustrating so it's trying to make a
00:31:12
decision within a big corporate
00:31:13
structure that I found really hard you
00:31:16
know um so much red tape and you take a
00:31:19
rainbow and you know everyone would feel
00:31:22
compelled to add a new color to it or to
00:31:24
just change the colors a little bit
00:31:26
slightly and so by the time you got to
00:31:27
the end of of it you sort of had this
00:31:28
gray cloud because everyone had messed
00:31:31
with it you know and it's like trying to
00:31:33
get that idea through that is really was
00:31:35
really hard within that environment um
00:31:38
and I I but I sort of found it
00:31:40
challenging but I learned a lot um and I
00:31:43
sort of also learned the confidence to
00:31:45
realize I knew enough about business at
00:31:47
that point too you know it was almost
00:31:49
like an endorsement of what I'd learned
00:31:51
with the entrepreneurial guys because I
00:31:52
I was able to walk into meetings with
00:31:54
guys with double NBAs and hold my own
00:31:56
and you know bounce back ideas and and
00:32:00
because I worked on the street selling
00:32:02
and doing all of that I sort of knew the
00:32:04
business Inside Out whereas some of them
00:32:06
had come in at top level and didn't
00:32:08
really um they knew the theory and they
00:32:10
had jobs above me but you know having
00:32:12
that confidence of knowing what I was
00:32:14
talking about was was gold so so why
00:32:17
skare yeah such a random thing did you
00:32:21
have the idea so Random back then well
00:32:24
it was random well mainly because I was
00:32:25
trying to find something to do myself I
00:32:27
want the challenge was I was I was
00:32:30
ultimately bored that bicardi asked me
00:32:32
to move to London um and live over there
00:32:34
and at that stage we had I think one if
00:32:36
not two kids very young and I just
00:32:39
thought I'm going to be on a plane the
00:32:40
whole time away Bernie's going to be
00:32:42
stuck in London by herself with two kids
00:32:44
um you know it's not conducive I'd
00:32:46
already lived in the UK um and I just
00:32:49
thought I I'm not super inspired about
00:32:51
being in this job you know and I was
00:32:53
like if I'm going to ever leave I was
00:32:56
still in my 30s um if I'm ever going to
00:32:59
leave and have a go do my own business
00:33:00
it's now and ever so I sort of took
00:33:02
redundancy instead and left and um uh
00:33:06
when and the last the the story you were
00:33:10
referencing my last meeting was with a
00:33:12
agency was in New York and um it's about
00:33:15
probably 2009 I guess and there's this
00:33:18
the coolest guy in the room was this guy
00:33:19
with a waste coat and a sort of a um
00:33:22
sleeve ttoo you know and about halfway
00:33:24
through the meeting he pulled out a
00:33:26
woman's hand cream you know and sort of
00:33:28
like rubbed it on his hands and I was
00:33:30
like what the heck I was like and I sort
00:33:33
of just I guess just pondered on that on
00:33:35
the way home and it was like I mean I've
00:33:38
always used moisturizer cuz of cricket
00:33:40
you know we're in the sun I remember
00:33:43
find reading an article on Rod Stewart
00:33:46
and and how the secret of his Youth and
00:33:48
he said are you always wear Oil of Olay
00:33:50
you know and I was like [ __ ] my mom's
00:33:52
got some of that so I remember like
00:33:53
filing through her cabinet when I was
00:33:55
about 18 finding this pink pot of oil of
00:33:57
o and going little do you know and
00:34:00
hiding it in my Cricket coffin I nearly
00:34:02
got busted by Ken raford when I was
00:34:04
playing at at Taro he would have been I
00:34:06
thought he was this grizzly old guy
00:34:07
thinking back he must have been about 32
00:34:09
you know but like I was like I was like
00:34:11
about 19 18 and I'm I'm sitting in the
00:34:15
in carisbrook back then you used to have
00:34:17
to come under as old carisbrook and the
00:34:20
the the dressing room was up the top up
00:34:22
the stairs and at the back and and um so
00:34:25
it's quite a long walk and Ken was a 10
00:34:28
throw really bad and so he we' just
00:34:30
finished bowling he had opened the
00:34:31
beding got out cheaply and um I'm I'd
00:34:34
been in the shower so was oblivious to
00:34:36
all of this so I've got out of the
00:34:37
shower and I'm dipped my hand into this
00:34:39
pink pot of moisturizer and I'm mid
00:34:43
downstroke and um the door slams open
00:34:46
and his back goes flying across smashes
00:34:49
into the opposition opposite wall and
00:34:51
then Ken just sort of stops and he looks
00:34:53
at me as I'm like uh you know put my
00:34:55
hand on my face he goes
00:34:58
what are you freaking doing and I was
00:34:59
like he goes why you putting sunscreen
00:35:01
on this time of day and I was like never
00:35:05
never be too safe
00:35:08
again and all I going think was so far
00:35:11
outside his framework that I could be
00:35:12
putting a moisturizer on you know it's
00:35:14
hard to tag him in it was like it didn't
00:35:17
even exist to him so I was like that's
00:35:18
the only thing that saved it so I always
00:35:21
thought if I could build something that
00:35:22
was cool enough that if Ken ruford
00:35:24
caught me using it it wouldn't be the
00:35:26
end of the world cuz it was was so
00:35:28
Innovative at the but by the way that's
00:35:29
an interesting story like um we'll get
00:35:31
into more of that with the cricket stuff
00:35:33
cuz it's um interesting how different
00:35:34
people react and I feel like Behavior
00:35:36
like that probably wouldn't be
00:35:37
acceptable now um it's probably still
00:35:40
the odd one yeah but yeah but um like it
00:35:43
it doesn't seem very Innovative now
00:35:45
under the 2024 lens but you I mean
00:35:47
there's so many competitors as you'd
00:35:48
know better than anyone but back then
00:35:50
I've always been a moisturizer guy but I
00:35:51
think there was um maybe a limited
00:35:53
Clarance range or L'Oreal perhaps for me
00:35:56
but there was [ __ ] all right yeah yeah
00:35:58
and what I found actually weirdly cuz I
00:36:00
used it because it really did help in
00:36:02
cricket right you're in the Sun the
00:36:03
whole time like you so you'd come in and
00:36:05
after a full day in the Sun and you're
00:36:07
just like wanted some relief and that's
00:36:09
why I I used it and then you to get this
00:36:11
then it extended to getting the
00:36:12
sunscreen off you just used a scrub or I
00:36:15
remember there's a Blackmore scrub which
00:36:17
they don't make anymore and I remember
00:36:19
going when I finally realized it was
00:36:20
selling out I went around to about four
00:36:22
chemists and tried to buy up these
00:36:23
things oh like a facial scrub yeah and I
00:36:25
was like and cuz they didn't have it and
00:36:26
I was just like so good to clean all
00:36:28
that [ __ ] off your face and then to
00:36:30
moist but I remember like buying all the
00:36:32
expensive ones as I got as I start earn
00:36:34
money i' buy start buying expensive ones
00:36:37
or boring girlfriend's ones or stuff and
00:36:39
I just found that actually the way A guy
00:36:41
uses it I want it on and gone I wanted
00:36:43
to slap it on I want instant hydration
00:36:45
you know which oil of ol was awesome for
00:36:48
um and so I was like man that's the so I
00:36:51
sort of stuck with that and then when it
00:36:52
came to developing the product and the
00:36:54
range I was like man I've got this sort
00:36:55
of industrial knowledge
00:36:58
if I just applied it and then applied
00:37:00
The Branding and the marketing side that
00:37:02
I'd learned at 42 I thought you know if
00:37:05
I'm into it maybe there's a market there
00:37:07
that was sort of the extent I if I if I
00:37:09
did it all again I think I would
00:37:11
probably challenge myself harder around
00:37:14
you know the like the perfect I'd start
00:37:17
with the biggest possible field of of
00:37:20
who can buy this thing and then work
00:37:23
backwards from there you know and
00:37:24
because the perfect business is
00:37:26
something that you could only you can
00:37:28
make and it's one product and everyone
00:37:30
in the world needs it all the time you
00:37:32
know so if that's the if that's the
00:37:34
perfect business yeah you know sort of
00:37:36
like you want to sort of like keep as
00:37:39
much of that in in the framework as
00:37:41
possible yeah but I mean your products
00:37:43
are cool and they're very good as well
00:37:44
yeah thank you I love them I I think
00:37:46
early on I messaged you as like have you
00:37:48
considered doing an under ey serum so I
00:37:52
think I've been more forward than maybe
00:37:53
your average customer oh no we've
00:37:55
appreciated your feedback all all the
00:37:57
all the time actually so no we've got a
00:37:59
long long history of every time your you
00:38:02
would pop up on the online order where
00:38:04
people would run up do is purchased yeah
00:38:06
I I love giving it as um gifts they're
00:38:09
just great products
00:38:11
um yeah yeah it just seems like such a
00:38:14
fascinating thing to get into like you
00:38:15
wouldn't know where to where to start um
00:38:17
but you you look back now so how old's
00:38:19
the company now 13 yeah now 13th yeah
00:38:23
are you happy with the name you chose
00:38:25
you happy with everything else oh I
00:38:27
would do loads of things differ I love
00:38:30
the name um the name's personal to me
00:38:33
comes from that red Kipling po if which
00:38:35
my dad who just passed away actually um
00:38:37
he gave it to me when I was about 13 I
00:38:39
wasn't the great I was a I was a mouthy
00:38:42
Lippy shitty son for most of my teenage
00:38:45
years so and he was a stoic farmer so we
00:38:48
didn't talk a lot and um I remember him
00:38:51
coming home from Oakland just throwing
00:38:52
this plaque down on my bed one day and
00:38:54
saying rude that boy and I sort of
00:38:57
graffi all around the outside of it um
00:38:59
but I hadn't I didn't touch the poem and
00:39:01
it was such a beautiful poem with all
00:39:03
these wonderful pieces of advice you
00:39:05
know um one of which is if you can meet
00:39:07
with Triumph and disaster and treat
00:39:08
those two imposters the same um but it's
00:39:11
all these other things like you know if
00:39:12
you can walk with Kings and not lose a
00:39:14
common touch if you can you know Heap up
00:39:16
all of your winnings and risk it on one
00:39:19
coin toss and lose and never breathe the
00:39:21
word of your lost you know there just
00:39:22
these wonderful ideas as a young man I
00:39:25
got goosebumps just heing just wonderful
00:39:28
like that actually that one that putting
00:39:31
all your winnings and losing it all and
00:39:32
never breathing with still that I'm the
00:39:35
same I just get sort of like ah man
00:39:38
that's such how life is Right you've got
00:39:40
to you've got to live that way you know
00:39:41
risk and reward and humility and honor
00:39:44
all those things so um yeah so I'm sort
00:39:47
of so the name's great I also think even
00:39:50
if you don't know the poem you know the
00:39:52
idea of our lives are part Triumph and
00:39:54
disaster using skin care as part Triumph
00:39:57
and disaster so I like all of that um I
00:40:00
think I would you know probably I should
00:40:03
have moved to America if I'm really
00:40:05
honest you know like um that because
00:40:07
it's a niche um businesses that probably
00:40:11
I I think haven't done as good a job as
00:40:13
I did have already blown up and sold in
00:40:16
America in the same time frame so you
00:40:19
have to be in a big market and with
00:40:21
there breadth and size um New Zealand's
00:40:24
been great don't get me wrong but you
00:40:27
know it's ultimately 5 million people
00:40:28
you know spread across a a whole country
00:40:31
so we've had to do it the hard way by
00:40:33
traveling and doing Distributors and
00:40:34
things like that but you know I it's
00:40:37
also got to fit with your lifestyle
00:40:38
right so I wanted my kids to grow up
00:40:40
here I I love New Zealand love living
00:40:43
here and you know our our lives have
00:40:45
been great in a whole bunch of other
00:40:46
ways by staying here so you can't you
00:40:49
know I wouldn't change anything really
00:40:52
it's it's hard like 1% of um the New
00:40:54
Zealand Market versus 1% of the American
00:40:56
Market 1% of the American Market you're
00:40:59
you're hanging out with Zuckerberg and
00:41:01
um what have been the the hardest
00:41:02
challenges cuz you you've been through a
00:41:03
lot of the global financial crisis was
00:41:06
that were you just after that or just
00:41:08
after yeah so just after sort of started
00:41:10
at the end of that um the biggest
00:41:12
challenges of have always are always
00:41:14
cash flow you know like um and managing
00:41:19
that and and you know dealing with the
00:41:23
fear of running out of money and the
00:41:25
fear of spending all the you know we
00:41:27
sold our house when we started it and I
00:41:30
took a bunch of money off off out of
00:41:32
that and put it in and then you know um
00:41:35
so you know you walk around with the
00:41:37
sort of guilt of like spending not just
00:41:39
my money but my wife's money um and um
00:41:43
and you know so so there's all of those
00:41:46
things but I mean it's been you know
00:41:50
learning how to manage staff learning
00:41:52
that I've I've had so many great staff
00:41:54
all the way through but staff leave you
00:41:57
know sometimes you've got to let good
00:41:58
stuffff go too just through circumstance
00:42:00
that that's horrible um other times good
00:42:04
stuff leave and that feels like that's
00:42:06
that feeling of like you can't help but
00:42:09
feel that you a bit let down but you but
00:42:11
it's just their life that they're going
00:42:13
on with you know so then you've got to
00:42:14
sell the dream to the new person whilst
00:42:16
feeling a little bit hurt that the
00:42:17
person's left you know like a breaker
00:42:19
it's like it's like you know there's all
00:42:21
these things you got to learn how to
00:42:23
manage and I didn't have any experience
00:42:25
with any of that um so
00:42:28
um uh yeah what but this last bit with
00:42:31
the pandemic was really hard I think
00:42:33
emotionally a lot of small businesses in
00:42:35
New
00:42:36
Zealand have been emotionally rung out
00:42:39
um you know
00:42:40
you this the people own small businesses
00:42:43
by proportion of the population was a
00:42:45
really small percentage right and so no
00:42:48
one care everyone if you're a business
00:42:50
owner everyone thinks just assumes
00:42:51
you're going to be rich or you're rich
00:42:53
or whatever they don't give us stuff
00:42:54
that you what you've had to go through
00:42:56
to get there and so and that's fair
00:42:58
enough everyone's on their own Journey
00:42:59
but I think um through that period you
00:43:03
had to carry the um so the worries of
00:43:05
all of your staff you had the
00:43:07
uncertainty for all of them and
00:43:09
financial uncertainty and just just
00:43:12
their anxieties and their Partners
00:43:13
anxieties and whilst not knowing what
00:43:16
the future for your own business was so
00:43:17
there was a a big period of time through
00:43:20
there where it was like just emotionally
00:43:22
draining and I think coming out the
00:43:24
other side you know a lot of the
00:43:26
businesses that maybe are no longer or
00:43:28
small businesses have just W that was
00:43:30
probably more the emotional just you
00:43:33
know exhaustion than the financial side
00:43:36
of it in many cases so I think that that
00:43:39
was tiring getting through that and now
00:43:41
of course right now it's again really
00:43:44
tricky so just constant challenges eh
00:43:46
yeah yeah well actually um you know
00:43:48
Shane McKellan who was actually actually
00:43:50
the guy got me into 42 below and um he
00:43:53
always said um business business is just
00:43:56
prob solving problems you know and it's
00:43:58
sort of true like um it is just solving
00:44:03
the next problem and finding solution
00:44:06
and just accepting that there is just
00:44:08
constantly going to be another another
00:44:09
Boulder face and I think I think well I
00:44:11
think there a difference to sport see
00:44:13
sport you have like um there's an end to
00:44:15
it you know you get to play a game win
00:44:17
or lose and then celebrate or or you
00:44:20
know uh start again um whereas with
00:44:23
business it's like just constant there's
00:44:25
no not really any end and um I I think
00:44:28
that lowlevel constant pressure is
00:44:32
harder that for me to deal with
00:44:34
personally than Peak pressure like you
00:44:37
know I I used to relish the peak
00:44:39
pressure um not always succeed with it
00:44:42
sometimes that would you know you'd fail
00:44:44
miserably under it but I sort of enjoyed
00:44:48
that whereas the long slow sort of grind
00:44:50
pressur is I find a little bit more
00:44:52
tiring or you've got to find coping
00:44:55
strategies to to deal with did has has
00:44:57
there ever been any occasion where
00:44:58
you've thought about just closing the
00:45:00
doors or just throwing it in selling it
00:45:03
selling it to someone in the last
00:45:08
week or or over the whole time every
00:45:11
every second day no um no oh yeah look
00:45:16
yes and no I think you have bad nights
00:45:18
early
00:45:19
on early on you have lots of bad nights
00:45:22
where you can't sleep and so you um you
00:45:24
know spreadsheets become your friend
00:45:26
because
00:45:27
especially when you're burning money
00:45:29
ahead of the curve like you know it's
00:45:32
invoid it's unavoidable right you you
00:45:34
only making 50k a month and you spent
00:45:37
spending 70k a month it's like far out
00:45:40
this is how much longer can I keep doing
00:45:41
this for you know and so um the the
00:45:45
spreadsheet you wake up you know when
00:45:47
you wake up at 2: in the morning and
00:45:49
you're like oh my God what am I going to
00:45:51
do what can I tell my wife and then so I
00:45:53
used to when I had those nights I'd go
00:45:55
and I'd just open up a spr sh and I'd
00:45:57
like run all the numbers and I'd be like
00:45:59
how many shops do I have to get how many
00:46:00
units they have to sell I'd just like do
00:46:03
all the math and I'd get to the end of
00:46:04
it after an hour or so of like pointless
00:46:06
exercise and it would be like oh I've
00:46:08
only got to get 15 more accounts okay
00:46:10
I'll just go and do that but that that
00:46:13
that was sort of a coping strategy for a
00:46:15
while and then at a certain point you
00:46:17
know you you learn to deal with all of
00:46:19
that um just the E and flows the
00:46:21
business yeah yeah yeah and what about
00:46:23
the future of the company um well we
00:46:26
still it's not done yet and I guess you
00:46:28
know coming back to your point about you
00:46:29
know being before getting too self Cong
00:46:34
what's the word congratulatory
00:46:35
congratulatory yourself on the back yeah
00:46:37
before I get like that I I think like um
00:46:39
I don't feel like it will have really
00:46:42
succeeded until um you know either I can
00:46:45
either it's making so much money that I
00:46:46
can step out of it and not have to worry
00:46:49
or or it's wealth it's worthwhile for
00:46:52
someone to buy it you know and um and
00:46:55
you know those it's um you know those
00:46:57
two things are still a we way off it's
00:46:59
like um you know we've got I'm emplo I'm
00:47:02
an employee I get paid by the business
00:47:04
but it's um you know there's still a
00:47:06
growth curve needed um and you know a
00:47:09
lot of that was probably has been
00:47:11
extended out a few years due to that Co
00:47:13
so and not alone in that you know that's
00:47:16
probably three years going sideways we
00:47:18
didn't account for no knowing what you
00:47:20
know now you just was your stay in
00:47:22
marketing maybe not with bikard but no
00:47:25
no no I don't I don't I like like you
00:47:28
I'm really I am really proud of what
00:47:29
we've done and achieved and I like I've
00:47:31
just personally it's so stimulating you
00:47:33
know it's I got into it because it was
00:47:35
the only thing that scared scared me you
00:47:37
know and I'm sort of I needed that um
00:47:40
you know I needed to be playing for real
00:47:44
um and I felt like um I still am you
00:47:47
know I'm still in the game which is
00:47:49
which keeps me getting up I get up every
00:47:51
morning I love going to work um you know
00:47:53
I've I'm I'm trying to find new new ways
00:47:57
to build the business there's always new
00:47:59
things to learn um you know we would
00:48:02
have lik to have done done it quicker
00:48:04
better yes of course um but what would I
00:48:07
do after this you know you got to you
00:48:09
got to do something with your time right
00:48:11
um and so I think staying sort of
00:48:14
stimulated is is super important for me
00:48:16
and you know as long as I'm stimulated
00:48:18
I'm okay yeah I I agree like um I even
00:48:22
think like retirement is a bit of a hoax
00:48:24
in a way like you need a you need a
00:48:26
purpose e like you need a reason to get
00:48:28
out of bed in the morning oh 100% yeah
00:48:31
no I I think my father worked to as 84
00:48:34
he sold this farm at 84 and I reckon you
00:48:38
know that that was sort of The Benchmark
00:48:41
it's like I I sort of feel like you've
00:48:43
got to just keep working you got to be
00:48:44
stimulated right I think there's
00:48:46
different ways of work I think you know
00:48:48
dropping back to four days a week you
00:48:50
know doing different types of work do if
00:48:52
just grinding out the same work over
00:48:54
time maybe that's that becomes a bit
00:48:55
more tiring but
00:48:57
yeah you got to be stimulated involved
00:48:59
but I I also just like I'm you know I'm
00:49:02
enjoy my kids sport and coaching and you
00:49:05
know just getting involved in other
00:49:07
parts of the community now as well you
00:49:08
know so I think you know there I say it
00:49:11
like Community is where it's at you know
00:49:14
I think like you got to be involved eh
00:49:16
you know that the all the ills that we
00:49:18
see out there at the moment my big thing
00:49:20
is like lots of people have lots to say
00:49:23
about it but [ __ ] all people are getting
00:49:25
out and getting involved in their in
00:49:26
their Community you know yeah oh good on
00:49:28
you okay let's let's get back to the
00:49:30
early years so you're from Northland
00:49:32
daville yep and what what's s of farm
00:49:34
what sort of farm will you race on was
00:49:36
it a dairy farm no no not don't
00:49:40
thankfully was yeah I was the worst fun
00:49:42
boy either like we I I came off the farm
00:49:45
not not really being able to drive a
00:49:46
tractor hard could hardly ride a
00:49:48
motorcycle was dangerous with a gun you
00:49:51
know like I was like you know shoot I
00:49:53
got all the [ __ ] jobs I was dead would
00:49:55
like in you know had to go and round
00:49:57
sheep and we had dry stock so sheep and
00:50:00
cattle and I just just man I think back
00:50:03
now I cringe I cringe how I perform for
00:50:06
I remember driving across the farm one
00:50:08
day and sulking and dad was and you know
00:50:11
I was trying to make it and would have
00:50:13
been about 14 or 15 something maybe 16
00:50:16
just that age where you started to push
00:50:17
back and challenge authority and I just
00:50:19
said to my father one I said said you
00:50:22
just don't get it then and he and he
00:50:25
goes he looks at me and I go and I'm I'm
00:50:27
a race horse not a cdale and as soon as
00:50:30
the words came out of my
00:50:33
mouth as soon as the words came out of
00:50:35
my mouth I was just like oh I just I
00:50:37
never worked so hard as I did that day
00:50:39
you know I was like oh man I've just
00:50:41
lost a Year's Grace you know I can't it
00:50:44
was so bad what did he say like an old
00:50:45
an old um an old Grizzly F from up North
00:50:48
did he just buy his t or he didn't need
00:50:50
to say anything because it was just I
00:50:51
was so embarrassed once it came out I
00:50:53
was like oh where did it come from did
00:50:55
you see it on a movie on a TV oh I don't
00:50:57
know I was just like I just felt like he
00:50:58
was working me too hard like you know
00:51:00
like I you know all my mates would be at
00:51:02
the beach and I'd be going out you know
00:51:04
feeding out hay or doing some sort of
00:51:06
shitty fencing job and I was just like
00:51:08
oh man come
00:51:09
on so yes so you he was older are you
00:51:13
dad like he was uh yeah yeah so Dad yeah
00:51:17
40s when he had you 42 I think yeah so
00:51:21
um yeah so I'm the baby baby of six yeah
00:51:24
and um a disabled sister
00:51:27
uh yes well H so yes she was the next
00:51:30
one yeah Sharon so she she just had the
00:51:33
umbilical cord around her right and
00:51:35
because of small town hospital they they
00:51:38
didn't really if she had have been in
00:51:40
Oakland probably would have been fine
00:51:41
they would have just got on to it
00:51:42
quicker but you know you know I don't
00:51:44
know 10 seconds too long with without
00:51:46
oxygen at the birth and that that sort
00:51:48
of causes that brain damage she's I mean
00:51:51
she's um she's one wonderful um you know
00:51:55
in emotionally huge part of the family
00:51:57
but
00:51:58
um you know can't really couldn't live
00:52:01
in a flat by herself or cook a meal for
00:52:03
herself she could go and eat get herself
00:52:06
sort of organized but can't can't talk
00:52:09
so nonverbal um but you know um you know
00:52:14
but totally you know what she's on about
00:52:16
you know in terms of um if particularly
00:52:18
if it's an emotional thing um she's and
00:52:22
and I think to that end you know she's
00:52:23
sort of the almost the core of the
00:52:26
family way [ __ ] I can't imagine how
00:52:28
tough that was for you you like your
00:52:29
parents in particular I've got some
00:52:31
friends like that John PJ who are just
00:52:32
wonderful parents and um they've got a
00:52:34
son son and daughter and uh the the yeah
00:52:37
the daughter similar sort of thing at
00:52:39
Birth and um yeah they'd go out on
00:52:41
family holidays and Vonnie just couldn't
00:52:43
adjust to the time zone so she'd be up
00:52:44
at 3 in the morning stomping around and
00:52:47
then uh like later on they'd just go on
00:52:49
holidays with with sha and leave Vonny
00:52:51
behind with a caregiver and you know
00:52:53
they're just the most wonderful parents
00:52:54
and the wonderful family but I can't
00:52:55
imagine the guilt they f without even
00:52:56
doing that yeah H yeah and I Look to be
00:53:00
to be honest like I
00:53:02
remember you know i' i' when it was just
00:53:05
me and chairing at home I remember going
00:53:07
and waiting at the bus stop you know and
00:53:10
standing to one side not really
00:53:12
associating you know and I I always look
00:53:15
back and I'm like you know what can you
00:53:17
do you're young and stupid you're craw
00:53:19
kids are craw you don't even realize it
00:53:22
um what was it yeah like what was your
00:53:25
relationship like with your dad like cuz
00:53:27
it's um I mean you and I are in our
00:53:29
early 50s now so it it doesn't seem that
00:53:31
old at all but when you're young you
00:53:33
just want to I don't know I'm probably
00:53:34
projecting here but you just want to fit
00:53:36
him with every everyone else you don't
00:53:37
want to have an old dad no and dad was
00:53:39
an old dad like well actually we we
00:53:41
weirdly I think at the end they've stay
00:53:44
they stayed really young but when I was
00:53:46
when I was young they seemed really old
00:53:48
you know cuz all my mates they 30
00:53:50
year-old my dad M mine my 50s you know
00:53:53
and it was like and um so
00:53:57
yeah I mean how' I get on oh look dad
00:53:59
was great um but he was an older dad so
00:54:02
he'd been through the mill with everyone
00:54:04
you know and baby of the family yeah his
00:54:07
job's done the older kids can raise you
00:54:10
and I probably benefit both benefited
00:54:13
from that but also probably rallied
00:54:14
against it you know like I probably
00:54:16
wanted but he was always involved he
00:54:18
drove I mean man mom and dad drove me um
00:54:20
I mean mom's interesting as well like
00:54:22
Mom is was a paraplegic so um so Mom was
00:54:26
in a wheelchair from about 22 um they
00:54:29
got married when they were 20 so they
00:54:31
got married real young and um through a
00:54:34
medical misadventure um she had appendix
00:54:37
and they something went wrong and they
00:54:40
they damaged her spine in the in the
00:54:42
operation and then when the when she had
00:54:45
her my older sister the that that that
00:54:50
exacerbated it and so she sort of lost
00:54:52
the use of her legs um and so you know
00:54:55
Mom and Dad tried to had to live through
00:54:57
all of that and you know it wasn't like
00:54:59
a
00:55:00
complete it didn't happen like just like
00:55:03
that you know it happened over 10 years
00:55:04
that that she sort of lost um and people
00:55:07
tried to have operations to fix it so
00:55:10
that would have been a really trying
00:55:11
time way before I was bornn um and so I
00:55:14
sort of like always felt a little bit
00:55:16
like man these these guys have been
00:55:19
through a lot and you know they're
00:55:20
driving me all around the place and so I
00:55:24
was always sort of quite grateful but
00:55:26
yeah it always felt like the nashes were
00:55:27
turning up you know I'd turn up and dad
00:55:29
would turn up in a big Falcon and an old
00:55:32
dad with mom in a wheelchair and my
00:55:34
handicap sister and I was like and then
00:55:35
I'd be like this like running off to
00:55:37
play cricket you know so it was a you
00:55:40
get older and you have so much guilt
00:55:41
about that stuff like you look back but
00:55:43
at the time you just want to fit in and
00:55:45
be like I could I was just trying to get
00:55:46
out into the middle as quickly as I
00:55:47
could but yeah and what about the rest
00:55:49
of the family cuz one of those books
00:55:50
that I started with um there's a a
00:55:53
throwaway line on there was like you say
00:55:55
something like your greatest achievement
00:55:56
in cricket is getting your brother to
00:55:58
turn up to one of your matches yeah well
00:56:00
he wasn't much of a cricketer he was he
00:56:02
was a um yeah my brother was uh thought
00:56:05
I think he thought he was Jim Morrison
00:56:07
for for a while so he was a bit of a
00:56:09
loose rugby player up from up North you
00:56:12
know he play was very talented rugby
00:56:14
player talented artist and but ended up
00:56:16
working on the farm with Dad so I think
00:56:18
he was he had his own battles for dead I
00:56:21
think um so yeah their oldest son
00:56:23
classic oldest son expected to work on
00:56:26
the farm and you know I think he was
00:56:28
just you know trying too needed to
00:56:32
probably get away himself um but no he
00:56:35
he eventually came around to enjoying
00:56:36
cricket and watching it and you know
00:56:38
they're all really proud of me so and
00:56:40
you know I've got great relationships
00:56:43
with them all really but they all are
00:56:44
quite different you know and I think you
00:56:47
do over over the course of that that
00:56:49
nature nurture thing you know that you
00:56:51
know you do I
00:56:53
am different to them you know it's like
00:56:56
I grew up in a different era almost to
00:56:58
to them you know they were almost 60s 70
00:57:01
70s children you know you know and I
00:57:03
grew up really for at least a decade if
00:57:06
not more 15 years um different um and
00:57:10
it's just different times parents were
00:57:12
much more chilled out all the dramas of
00:57:15
you know whatever that they that kids
00:57:18
got up to back then what had run through
00:57:20
and I I was just left
00:57:22
to walk through walk through behind you
00:57:26
know that was pretty sweet um was was it
00:57:29
was it quite a strict discipline
00:57:30
household though like yeah it was Dad
00:57:33
was dad was we you know we grew up um
00:57:36
Mom and Dad were catholic so they grew
00:57:37
up in like quite a not not super
00:57:40
religious but it was always there you
00:57:42
expected to go to church on a Sunday and
00:57:44
I I rallied against that quite you know
00:57:47
I just couldn't understand why I had to
00:57:49
do that um and you know but and dad was
00:57:53
a quite a quite a stripped guy like he
00:57:57
was a boxer and um and and a hard worker
00:58:01
and
00:58:02
so you know between between all of those
00:58:05
there wasn't a lot of sort of give and
00:58:07
take you know it was like here's how
00:58:08
it's going to be and you know like like
00:58:11
it ormp it you know so um but you know
00:58:15
there was always love and care and you
00:58:17
know I never felt physically threatened
00:58:19
or you know I had a great upbringing
00:58:22
really but you know you do rally against
00:58:26
discipline I think as a young youngster
00:58:28
don't you yeah that sounds um that
00:58:31
sounds so similar to mine like religious
00:58:32
household felt like I was I look back I
00:58:34
feel like I was getting whacked with the
00:58:36
belt all the time all the time mom
00:58:38
wouldn't never do it she like you wait
00:58:40
till your father get home gets home and
00:58:43
then hours later wouldd be over the bed
00:58:45
getting the belt for something you
00:58:46
couldn't even remember what and then if
00:58:48
if we got in trouble for something and
00:58:49
Mom couldn't prove if it was real or not
00:58:51
she would just be like well God will
00:58:52
punish you God sees everything [ __ ] I
00:58:55
remember being marched up by the nuns
00:58:58
marched up in the middle of the
00:58:59
afternoon uh for something I'd done and
00:59:02
I at school and I was just like all I
00:59:04
could think of was like you guys have
00:59:06
got no idea how bad this is going to be
00:59:07
when my father gets home please don't
00:59:10
take me in there please don't take me in
00:59:12
there [ __ ] you I did that once to the
00:59:14
police me and a bunch of mates we had
00:59:16
some um little fireworks like double
00:59:18
happies or whatever we went around and
00:59:20
we like knock on someone's doorstep
00:59:22
light one and then run away and then we
00:59:23
got taken home by the police and I was
00:59:25
after leave when Matthew got dropped off
00:59:27
I was dropped off and I was like please
00:59:28
please can you just drop me off around
00:59:29
the corner like you don't understand
00:59:31
what's going to happen to me I was
00:59:33
probably 15 16 at the time I don't think
00:59:34
I got a whack that time from memory and
00:59:36
I think I think that was sort of Line in
00:59:38
the Sand like I didn't get a whack after
00:59:39
that yeah yeah there's definitely
00:59:42
stiffing points right but um so then so
00:59:45
so you um so you finished your school in
00:59:47
ockland right so you're in daville you
00:59:49
got a is it Oakland grar for your final
00:59:51
Orland grar finishing school yeah so we
00:59:53
were you just like um we were you just
00:59:55
like an out Talent so they were like we
00:59:57
need to harness this talent and get this
00:59:59
kid to the big smoke or I never felt
01:00:01
that oh well yeah I mean I was obviously
01:00:04
talented I'd made it all the way through
01:00:05
I was playing rep Cricket for Northern
01:00:07
districts and we played a tournament in
01:00:10
in counties and P um out that way and um
01:00:15
with pooi and um uh I remember my f
01:00:20
seeing my father talking to the ockland
01:00:22
coach we're playing ockland and I
01:00:23
remember thinking like Dad would never
01:00:26
speak to the coaches you know so I was
01:00:28
like what's he doing speaking to the O
01:00:30
he probably doesn't even know that's the
01:00:31
Oakland coach he's talking to you know
01:00:33
and um anyway I remember so we drove
01:00:35
topped in the car after the game was the
01:00:37
last game of the tournament we drove
01:00:38
home and about halfway home to darville
01:00:41
he goes are how would you feel about
01:00:42
going to con GMA next
01:00:44
year um and I was like yeah sounds great
01:00:49
and then the the opposition coach was
01:00:52
the grar uh cricket coach Graham Sim and
01:00:57
I don't know what sort of deal that
01:00:58
worked out but next thing I knew I was
01:01:00
found myself sort of arriving down at
01:01:02
tb's house on Mountain Road and and I
01:01:05
was enrolled at grammar and yeah then I
01:01:08
it was just like it was it was sort of
01:01:11
magic you know like I Pro I I was all
01:01:13
set to do another my final year at
01:01:14
darville um high and that would have
01:01:16
been fine you know I was playing senior
01:01:18
Club Cricket for Northland I was already
01:01:20
sort of on my way I was on the I'd been
01:01:23
Rec recognized as at that stage so I
01:01:26
probably but but where it did change was
01:01:29
like just my schooling and coming across
01:01:34
that Winners attitude that they have at
01:01:35
Oakland grammar you know like I ended up
01:01:37
playing getting in the first 15 um as a
01:01:40
squad as well you know and
01:01:43
um uh I remember walking in at the going
01:01:46
into the headmaster's office after being
01:01:48
picked in the first 15 and um he set
01:01:51
everybody down and just John Graham and
01:01:54
you know he was this man of immense
01:01:56
Manor and sort of staunch as and he just
01:01:59
goes I just want you all to understand
01:02:02
everybody who plays you this year will
01:02:04
play their best game of rugby against
01:02:06
you and he said you are the number one
01:02:10
target every if they if a team beats you
01:02:13
and they lose every other game of the
01:02:15
season they'll have had a great season
01:02:17
because they've beaten you he said so
01:02:20
zero excuses you know that's how it's
01:02:22
going to be every team is going to be a
01:02:25
tough game and it was just the first
01:02:27
time in my life that I'd heard you know
01:02:29
that Winner's perspective of like you're
01:02:32
number one you know you're are you are
01:02:34
the target um and you didn't don't get
01:02:37
that much in New Zealand you know maybe
01:02:39
if you're an all black or or only really
01:02:41
sort of at a school like Oakland grammar
01:02:43
and
01:02:44
um and for that lesson alone I think it
01:02:48
was really really really valuable you
01:02:50
know cuz it was like wow that you can be
01:02:53
out in front you can be the number one
01:02:55
target you don't you're not always
01:02:57
fighting you know as the underdog you
01:02:59
know um and so I really enjoyed that you
01:03:04
know and I actually flourished there you
01:03:06
know um it's funny cuz early on you just
01:03:09
told that story about you and Jeff
01:03:10
Wilson sort of driving each other on so
01:03:11
I'm guessing 16 17 year old Dion from
01:03:15
the country in Oakland same sort of
01:03:17
thing you're surrounded by people that
01:03:18
are pushing you did you did you um did
01:03:22
you feel like hot [ __ ] coming down or
01:03:24
did you feel like an impostor like [ __ ]
01:03:26
I don't belong here did you feel like
01:03:28
you were good enough to be here I felt
01:03:29
like I needed to prove myself fully like
01:03:31
I was really determined to prove myself
01:03:33
I didn't feel like hot [ __ ] I felt I I
01:03:36
knew a couple of guys there there was um
01:03:38
you know Blair pook who I'd played
01:03:40
against and with um Mike cig um who was
01:03:43
a very good cricketer and I played a lot
01:03:45
with um he was around um Matt horn had
01:03:48
just left so I sort of had KN known a
01:03:49
few people but um uh no I I I didn't
01:03:55
there was none of there I just went down
01:03:56
really determined I saw it for what it
01:03:58
was which was an opportunity um you know
01:04:01
and I thought I'm taking this with both
01:04:02
hands you know and I I I just had a
01:04:05
great year it was like you know I I won
01:04:08
the batting award I didn't win the
01:04:10
bowling award actually um which is you
01:04:12
know probably the one I thought I would
01:04:14
go down and win end up winning the
01:04:16
batting award and and I and and just
01:04:18
having this great year we won
01:04:20
but being in the hostel you know meeting
01:04:23
all those guys hanging out with guys who
01:04:26
were in 7A and 7B academically I wasn't
01:04:29
I was in way way down in 7f but hanging
01:04:33
out with them in the hosel and learning
01:04:35
how the hard they were studying was like
01:04:37
oh wow so this is just like training you
01:04:39
know is okay just go do the hours and
01:04:42
you know guess what you get better you
01:04:44
know um stuff like that which I just
01:04:46
hadn't been exposed to um and so I just
01:04:50
I just loved it I was like a sponge um
01:04:52
and DJ Graham was so amazing as a
01:04:57
Headmaster you know the the effect that
01:05:00
that guy had over so many boys that went
01:05:02
through those schools you know um that
01:05:04
school I should say um you know he he he
01:05:08
just he was a man of principle and and
01:05:13
simple basic rules and if you followed
01:05:15
those you okay you know and if and but
01:05:18
he he would accept your argument if it
01:05:20
was different if he didn't care about it
01:05:22
but if it were half-hearted and it was a
01:05:23
flaky argument man he got SP around so
01:05:26
quick it was it was like you know um so
01:05:30
yeah no it was it was just great and
01:05:32
what also happened is all lots of those
01:05:34
guys that I met at Grandma were going on
01:05:36
to University and and so that's what
01:05:37
sort of ultimately got me to UNI you
01:05:40
know so you went to aago did you yeah
01:05:41
what did you want to do then did you did
01:05:43
you want to be a New Zealand cricketer
01:05:45
did you have a career plan yeah I no my
01:05:47
only career plan was to make the cricket
01:05:48
team and buy enough time from my parents
01:05:50
that I could do it and wouldn't have to
01:05:52
work in the mill or the farm so it was
01:05:54
like man I'm just like
01:05:56
uni uni sign me up um so yeah I started
01:06:00
out I started out doing law cuz you know
01:06:01
that that pleased everybody uh and then
01:06:04
I failed well I passed law in my first
01:06:06
year but had had to pass much better
01:06:08
than I did um and so I ended up doing a
01:06:11
ba um in sociology and his art history
01:06:15
and all the the big names how's that
01:06:17
working out for you these days coming in
01:06:18
handy actually it was the best degree I
01:06:21
ever could have done it was um so like
01:06:23
it's a study of people right so it was
01:06:26
like uh you know it ends up being really
01:06:28
great for marketing but I I always say
01:06:31
i' I really I learned how to think at
01:06:34
University you know I'd been learning
01:06:35
how to just regurgitate things by rout
01:06:39
prior to that and um I always remember
01:06:42
in history American history this um uh I
01:06:46
was really struggling I needed to get
01:06:48
this paper to finish my La last year and
01:06:51
and the exams coming up and I've been
01:06:53
writing longer and longer essays you
01:06:54
know and I've been getting C's and C
01:06:56
minuses and I was like man this and this
01:06:59
lady Professor I can't remember her name
01:07:01
was just it felt so personal it was like
01:07:03
she's crushing me she doesn't doesn't
01:07:06
and I remember meeting a guy who's doing
01:07:07
honors and he was in my class and I was
01:07:10
like and I just said man I'm I don't
01:07:12
know what I'm doing wrong but you know
01:07:15
I'm just struggling he goes well what
01:07:17
are you struggling he goes and sort of
01:07:19
told him and he goes ah dude you just
01:07:22
have to imagine that you were there and
01:07:24
I was like what do you mean he goes just
01:07:26
put yourself there like you like you
01:07:29
know and he used the examples of the of
01:07:31
Jackson and the Indians putting them
01:07:33
Jackson put them on the reserves and you
01:07:35
know retrospectively it's this big deal
01:07:38
you know these people were put off their
01:07:39
lands on the reserves but at the time it
01:07:42
was just Jackson solving a problem and
01:07:44
going man I just don't I just want this
01:07:46
problem solved and out of my way so I
01:07:48
can get my voters to vote for me and and
01:07:51
so when you put yourself back into the
01:07:53
times and think about what he was
01:07:54
dealing with it's a Al different aspect
01:07:56
of History than what we when we look
01:07:59
back with that lens you know and so
01:08:02
thinking that taught me to think you
01:08:03
know that's interesting and um was it a
01:08:06
good time down there it was rich for
01:08:08
sports right Mark Alis was down there
01:08:10
who who who were you rubbing shoulders
01:08:11
with no yeah know well Mark and Josh
01:08:14
corfield and sort of Aaron p and and
01:08:17
John teu that was the sort of John
01:08:19
Lesley they were all the they were and
01:08:21
you know they were the Legends down
01:08:23
there cuz they were the in the vity 18
01:08:25
and a Target team um so I was I was off
01:08:28
to the side with all the cricketers um
01:08:30
but um any cricketers have not who was
01:08:33
uh uh well Jeff Wilson wasn't at Uni but
01:08:36
he was playing down there um Ken
01:08:39
Rutherford was there so we we did really
01:08:41
well we got into the finals when we we
01:08:43
had a good team Mark Richardson came
01:08:46
down towards the end um and um who else
01:08:51
yeah there's I've boun just have
01:08:53
insulted a whole bunch of people but um
01:08:55
the yeah but the um but yeah no I mean
01:08:58
but hanging out at Uni was just great
01:09:00
you know and we worked hard played hard
01:09:02
you know it was it was just fun all the
01:09:04
time there's always something on yeah
01:09:06
any um any good University stories that
01:09:08
you can share CU it was around this time
01:09:10
didn't Mar Ellis get done for like drunk
01:09:12
driving he was riding around on a
01:09:13
scooter with like a watermelon on his
01:09:15
head oh yeah there was loads of stuff
01:09:16
like that I remember uh I mean look yeah
01:09:19
most of it you can't really
01:09:21
tell if I'm honest a lot of these
01:09:23
stories don't a lot of these stories
01:09:24
don't age well yeah no that's right
01:09:26
that's I did hear a story about you on
01:09:28
another podcast um you you you were at a
01:09:31
pear jam concert you in the front row
01:09:32
Shir off um Eddie VI got a mouth full of
01:09:35
wine spat it on the crowd and you opened
01:09:38
your Gob I got a got a good Gob fill in
01:09:41
yeah I thought I'd been like blessed
01:09:43
from like you know on high so that sort
01:09:47
of paints a picture of the sort of Dion
01:09:48
Nash where we dealing within early I
01:09:51
also turned up I one I can tell is I a
01:09:54
few years l later that pill Jam were
01:09:56
back and um we play we played I think
01:10:00
either Australia or Zimbabwe in Oakland
01:10:02
and there's a pill Jam concert at Mount
01:10:04
smart and um that night and so I was
01:10:08
like um came back to my flat afterwards
01:10:11
you know we' won the game he runs on a
01:10:13
high runs cocktails and stuff and so I
01:10:16
put my my fian cow pants sort of pants
01:10:19
on that I bought in London I've got like
01:10:21
some sort of like sleeveless top
01:10:23
girlfriend's painted like my hands black
01:10:25
fingernails you know and probably you
01:10:27
know I don't know what else they had
01:10:29
on you know you know and I'm like anyway
01:10:33
we tune up and go to this concert and
01:10:35
have this great night with my mates at
01:10:37
this concert you know and I'd arrange to
01:10:39
meet the guys at um at uh guasu which is
01:10:44
on panel rise afterwards and um anyway
01:10:47
so you know about 11:30 at night 12:00
01:10:50
night we've left the console get in
01:10:52
there and all the cricket teams in that
01:10:54
gr having having their drinks and so I I
01:10:56
joined
01:10:57
them and I'm sort of out of the cabin
01:11:00
I'm walking in and this guy this older
01:11:03
gentleman jumps up from the table at the
01:11:04
front of guasu and comes down and then
01:11:06
meets me and he comes up and he sticks
01:11:08
his hand out goes Dion great game today
01:11:11
mate and I was like oh all I could see
01:11:14
is like my hand was coming out was black
01:11:15
fingernail polished as I was like I was
01:11:18
trying to put my hand on the name I was
01:11:20
like oh thanks mate like and you know
01:11:23
all the opposition team were in there
01:11:25
it's like all you know when you're all
01:11:26
of a sudden you're like oh not
01:11:28
everything translates as like it should
01:11:30
yeah cuz it's it's um yeah it's worth
01:11:32
like highlighting it's a different time
01:11:34
back then as well you guys just weren't
01:11:36
wearing nail po no no it was there it
01:11:38
wasn't wasn't done I remember yeah it
01:11:41
was quite well received at the concert
01:11:42
people were like went down okay there
01:11:44
but not so much with your sports Manel R
01:11:48
different look for different group of
01:11:49
friends so um yeah so so so you make the
01:11:52
New Zealand cricket team um you you were
01:11:55
quite inexperienced right I don't know a
01:11:57
lot about Cricket but it sounds like i'
01:11:58
play three I'd played three games yeah
01:12:00
it was ridiculous it was crazy we in
01:12:03
hindsight like having been a selector
01:12:05
yourself were you like FasTrack too
01:12:08
quickly I mean it worked out good well I
01:12:11
yes I absolutely was yeah I absolutely
01:12:13
was like and you know what what happens
01:12:16
is you what it what it did AO is fast
01:12:19
trct way too quick so I went away on
01:12:20
tour but where it really became
01:12:23
problematic was then I I had to go back
01:12:25
to domestic Cricket after that and all
01:12:29
of these hardened domestic players who
01:12:31
had been overlooked for me then just had
01:12:33
it in for me so then I just copped it
01:12:36
really bad for like probably two seasons
01:12:38
you know like you know and I was always
01:12:41
you know everyone's accusing me of you
01:12:42
know getting screwed by the captain or
01:12:44
you know like and you know blowing the
01:12:47
coach yeah it was all you know and and
01:12:49
but when you're 20 21 years of age it's
01:12:53
but you don't have the coping strategy
01:12:55
to have it when a 35y old man's just
01:12:57
abusing you for an hour and a half at a
01:12:59
time you know and it's like you just
01:13:01
don't really understand it you know and
01:13:03
you look back now it just wouldn't it
01:13:05
wouldn't be acceptable now you know but
01:13:07
like back then the Umpire did nothing
01:13:10
you just young guy just stood there in
01:13:12
the middle while you're Banning and you
01:13:14
just have a a team abusing you for two
01:13:16
hours and then you you know and you're
01:13:18
like it was just sort of like the the
01:13:21
way it was I'm not blaming anyone that
01:13:23
was the culture of the cricket scene and
01:13:25
it was sort of ugly um and you know we
01:13:29
I'm no saint I went on to do things like
01:13:31
that myself to young players later you
01:13:33
know and it's like you look back now and
01:13:35
you're like man what on Earth why didn't
01:13:38
someone step in and that that was never
01:13:40
the right way to for any of us to have
01:13:42
been behaving but it's also human nature
01:13:44
right like some young punk gets plays
01:13:46
three games and gets picked in the black
01:13:48
caps and you've played Five Seasons and
01:13:51
you've taken all these wickets and
01:13:52
you're clearly a better player like what
01:13:55
you're not going to tune up and give
01:13:56
them a easy ride are you you're going be
01:13:58
into them no but I suppose uh the way to
01:14:01
do it now would just be to let your
01:14:02
Cricket do the talking like bow you know
01:14:05
make this guy look like a fool and there
01:14:06
were some players who did that too right
01:14:08
so it wasn't everyone but um but you
01:14:11
know but quite often you you know you
01:14:13
there'd be a couple of Hit Men Who would
01:14:14
do the majority of it you know do and
01:14:18
the fact that you're bringing up now I
01:14:19
suppose this maybe answers my question
01:14:20
but it did it sort of taint your
01:14:22
experience yeah I I came back from my
01:14:24
first tour and I didn't want to play for
01:14:25
black caps ever again wow yeah and it
01:14:28
took me a year in the wilderness to sort
01:14:30
of go away and just work out and get my
01:14:33
love for the game back
01:14:35
um yeah and you know um I there's a
01:14:39
whole bunch to that I was too young I
01:14:41
was too IMM mature emotionally not up
01:14:43
for it um got it had wasn't treated that
01:14:47
well um didn't perform very well thing
01:14:50
got dropped thing got bullied thing got
01:14:53
you know so it was all of the stuff and
01:14:54
you're just like man think I might just
01:14:56
go do something else you know bully by
01:14:58
or you know just in the domestic scene
01:15:00
you just I just once you got back but
01:15:02
then all a sudden it was like I I
01:15:04
actually remember I played a game in
01:15:06
luget which they had this all whites
01:15:08
versus All Blacks which was before we
01:15:10
were the black caps we were the all and
01:15:12
they had this game in lugger and um all
01:15:14
some of the old All Blacks would play
01:15:16
the cricketers in um this game and I I
01:15:20
got taken along to it and played in it
01:15:22
and I remember afterwards um uh uh it
01:15:26
was um Robbie Deans and
01:15:29
um uh Ellen houon Robbie Deans Ellen
01:15:32
Houston and Kieran Crowley oh wow sat me
01:15:35
down in the this hotel room with a and
01:15:37
had a beer and I was just like sitting
01:15:39
with these
01:15:41
Le right and and um they said oh so
01:15:45
what's the story you've been dropped and
01:15:46
I was like yeah and you know I like oh
01:15:48
it's okay you know and they they're like
01:15:49
they like it's okay what are you talking
01:15:52
about and I was like oh you know then
01:15:54
you guys they just deserve to be there
01:15:55
you know and I was and politically
01:15:57
correct and they were like [ __ ] off mate
01:16:01
what do you what do you mean it's okay
01:16:02
don't you want to be there don't you
01:16:03
don't you think you're good enough and
01:16:05
they just drilled me for and I was like
01:16:08
I remember
01:16:09
thinking man that's how Champions think
01:16:12
you know what am I doing I'm just suling
01:16:14
being a twit um and I always remember
01:16:19
that and I sort of like you know it was
01:16:21
that difference between how great rugby
01:16:23
all blacks were thinking and in the
01:16:26
environment that was the cricket
01:16:27
environment at that time I'd been just
01:16:29
I'd just been left alone and no one had
01:16:30
got around me and said hey shake this
01:16:34
funk you know off and get back in on the
01:16:37
horse you know um but these guys did
01:16:40
they recognized it and far I so
01:16:42
appreciated it I've never I don't think
01:16:44
I've seen any of them ever since
01:16:46
actually to say thank you but um and it
01:16:49
was one of those things I from that game
01:16:51
on I just had this instant change of
01:16:54
attitude and I was like like that was
01:16:55
that was me getting back on the horse
01:16:57
straight after that game then ended up
01:16:59
making the New Zealand team again and
01:17:01
just the reset you needed eh yeah yeah
01:17:03
but it was that winnner thinking you
01:17:05
know like Robbie Deans in particular I
01:17:08
just remember him drilling me straight
01:17:10
before straight in the forehead going
01:17:12
what are you saying mate where are you
01:17:15
know I was like oh man I it was it was
01:17:19
just the fire I needed you know it was
01:17:21
perfect and in the um the New Zealand
01:17:23
team environment and those those early
01:17:25
years when you're a young player is it
01:17:27
was it quite a supportive environment or
01:17:29
was it sort of every was it quite clicky
01:17:31
clicky um I think the players would say
01:17:34
they were supportive in their own ways
01:17:36
and but they had they were the product
01:17:38
of their environment right so they were
01:17:40
only it was an individual sport Semi-Pro
01:17:44
u a couple of superstars the rest of the
01:17:46
people were teachers in the off season
01:17:49
and you know part-time trying to
01:17:51
struggle to make it you know travel the
01:17:53
world have a few beers it was sort
01:17:55
of so you know I we were the cusp of
01:17:59
that early stage of true professionalism
01:18:02
and um you know it was only towards the
01:18:04
end of my career that we were actually
01:18:05
getting paid properly and professional
01:18:07
and had the support structures starting
01:18:09
to come around so um yeah I mean look it
01:18:13
wasn't all bad they were good people all
01:18:15
the way through you know um and and but
01:18:18
people were focused on getting their own
01:18:19
job done you know that was a hard tough
01:18:22
environment you know guys like Andrew
01:18:23
Jones I remember being ad admiring how
01:18:25
he went about things but he didn't have
01:18:27
any room for me in that you know cuz it
01:18:30
was like he had to get his job done you
01:18:31
know Martin Crow the same you know like
01:18:34
um you know th those guys were Legends
01:18:38
and and amazing but they didn't have
01:18:41
time to build the culture or they didn't
01:18:43
have the enough support around to build
01:18:45
a culture that brought everyone else
01:18:47
into that or showed the pathway to that
01:18:49
um which you know that I don't put that
01:18:52
blame on them at all that's just a time
01:18:55
in place you know if they had have been
01:18:57
given the support structures the modern
01:18:58
day teams have imagine what we could
01:19:01
they could have achieved yeah would also
01:19:03
yeah you you look at the alls at the
01:19:04
same time there was a whole like back
01:19:06
row of the bus thing and you know if
01:19:08
you're a junior player the senior
01:19:09
players wouldn't even talk to you or
01:19:11
acknowledge Your Existence it's just
01:19:13
just how it was yeah m m actually made
01:19:15
the um remember that there used to be
01:19:16
those old black trials you know the
01:19:17
possibles and problems a m mine uh made
01:19:20
the possibles one year and he was like
01:19:22
opposite Fitzy Sean Fitz Patrick and he
01:19:24
saw him in the the hotel for some
01:19:26
breakfast and he went up to him and
01:19:27
introduced himself and said oh you know
01:19:29
any chance of sitting down and picking
01:19:30
your brains and F he told him to [ __ ]
01:19:33
off I feel like it's a different
01:19:35
environment now different culture and
01:19:37
and society and sport in general yeah
01:19:40
it's I mean so many things have changed
01:19:42
but yeah none of that surprises you
01:19:45
right that I can exactly imagine that
01:19:47
happening yeah um I said let's talk some
01:19:51
of the highs and some of the lows so one
01:19:52
of the highs I'm guessing 1994 and Lords
01:19:55
which is the H Cricket you become the
01:19:57
first person ever to score 50 then take
01:19:59
11 wickets in a test yeah yeah
01:20:02
um so you so you went on as a batsman so
01:20:05
you weren't particularly good at batting
01:20:06
at that level I I had been a good batter
01:20:09
through youth Cricket you you I I sort
01:20:12
of always wish I had have taken my
01:20:14
batting a bit more seriously because it
01:20:16
but in the end it's the you know the the
01:20:19
quickest and easiest route that you take
01:20:21
right and I ended up that ended up being
01:20:22
bowling but as a young player I was
01:20:24
probably is got a better as bowler but
01:20:27
over time the bowling took over um so I
01:20:30
could always bet um I wish I had have
01:20:34
given it more now because that would
01:20:35
have given me longevity and it's also
01:20:37
one of those things that I don't feel
01:20:39
like my statistics or my or really do
01:20:42
justice to how good a player I was does
01:20:44
it do does it bother you now or of
01:20:46
course does
01:20:48
it like when like sometimes in the
01:20:51
shower is it something you think about
01:20:53
or when you're driving the car just pops
01:20:55
up randomly you can't control when it
01:20:57
pops in but like no I
01:20:59
mean also like the um you know I got
01:21:03
injured a lot right so you it was just
01:21:07
the bowling side I was always playing
01:21:09
injured in the second half of my career
01:21:11
so you're always dealing with injuries
01:21:13
and recovering from injury so you even
01:21:15
the windows that you got were always
01:21:18
never quite pure you know they were
01:21:20
always there was always something
01:21:21
limiting you or holding you back or
01:21:23
whatever and so being a better and being
01:21:26
a better
01:21:27
batsman um than I than my statistics
01:21:29
showed I I I probably should have put
01:21:31
that to the Forefront and really driven
01:21:33
that side of it but again I just
01:21:35
mentally wasn't up for that challenge at
01:21:37
the time you know like you just you get
01:21:38
worn down by a bunch of things and you
01:21:40
take the easiest route I think but um
01:21:43
yeah I mean I I I I do pride myself I I
01:21:47
it's one of those things that you know
01:21:49
like everything is in its place but that
01:21:52
I went to a friends one of my best mates
01:21:54
got married in Jamaica Married An
01:21:56
American um girl and that they and we
01:21:59
went to the wedding in Jamaica and it
01:22:01
was this beautiful amazing wedding in
01:22:03
The Cliffs and off the cliffs in Jamaica
01:22:05
and um in American weddings you have the
01:22:08
the wedding before the wedding which is
01:22:10
of run through but that's when all the
01:22:12
actual speeches take place so it's sort
01:22:13
of like it's more formal than a run
01:22:15
through it's actual it's more casual
01:22:17
version of the wedding it's quite
01:22:18
interesting and then the formal wedding
01:22:20
happens the next night but at that um
01:22:23
the the the father of the groom got up
01:22:27
and introduced me to all these Americans
01:22:28
and he said um oh this is the ones he
01:22:31
was um he was one of the players of his
01:22:33
generation in cricket and I've always
01:22:36
thought because i' I'm always
01:22:37
uncomfortable with how you you always
01:22:39
you never know how to get how to where
01:22:42
you fit in the whole Echelon of of
01:22:44
cricket and everyone looks at Statistics
01:22:46
over time and I just thought that was
01:22:48
the the best way i' I've ever I'd ever
01:22:50
felt I felt comfortable with how that
01:22:52
described me you know like for that era
01:22:54
from my era I was one of the players of
01:22:56
that generation you know and it's like
01:22:58
you know along with the other guys who
01:23:00
did well in that era and I think that's
01:23:02
a really clean way of saying it and it's
01:23:05
like that's all you can be right and in
01:23:08
your in your time period are you one of
01:23:11
the best players and and and did you do
01:23:13
well you know that's sort of it you you
01:23:15
got to Captain uh for a while like in
01:23:18
the history of New Zealand Cricket how
01:23:19
many Captain have they been 20 30 I mean
01:23:22
come on yeah it was funny little thing
01:23:23
though the only teams I played against
01:23:25
as Captain I did uh I think a test mat
01:23:28
couple of what I do three three test
01:23:30
matches I think and and five1 days four1
01:23:32
days I can't remember five1 days anyway
01:23:35
but the only people I kept in were ended
01:23:37
up both do done for match
01:23:39
fixing against so was like hzi Kan and
01:23:43
and Muhammad azen but who were both
01:23:45
great players but unfortunately yeah
01:23:47
cross the line I always wonder whether
01:23:49
my results are slightly
01:23:51
tainted we never know so oh yes so 94
01:23:55
game at Lords um is your name on an
01:23:58
honors board there at all I've had Mark
01:24:00
Richardson in the podcast and his name
01:24:01
is on an honors board forgetting a
01:24:02
century there and he's never never seen
01:24:04
it but he said if he saw it in in real
01:24:06
life it'd probably you'd be quite
01:24:07
emotional about it yeah uh of yeah so
01:24:10
they've changed that actually so when we
01:24:12
they've changed the the things around so
01:24:14
when it first happened um it was on the
01:24:17
other end of the of the r was like sort
01:24:18
of quite a a cream colored board and um
01:24:22
we got into trouble because Blair po got
01:24:24
up and and scratched my name and a
01:24:27
pencil and and it was like Lord and I
01:24:30
was like oh my gosh and so that got
01:24:32
covered up as a thing that happened and
01:24:35
I um anyway so and then I went back to
01:24:38
play there for Middle sex the a year
01:24:40
later so I got a contract so I saw it
01:24:42
all the time because I'd just go and you
01:24:44
know yeah it's still there um but I went
01:24:48
back recently um 40 cuz trium disaster
01:24:52
sponsored middle sex so I went back and
01:24:54
and um we were sort of middle the middle
01:24:57
middle six guys and and they showed me
01:24:58
around and I went into the room and they
01:25:00
changed it all it's all totally
01:25:02
different and the honors Bo is down the
01:25:04
other end and so it's moved down it's
01:25:05
not a big dark mahogany one now so you
01:25:08
know even at even at the house of uh the
01:25:10
home of cricket they changed things but
01:25:12
um yeah it is emotional it's like all
01:25:14
the great events of of that have
01:25:17
happened you know and so it it means a
01:25:19
lot there's a lot of great players who
01:25:21
don't have their names up there you know
01:25:22
so it's it's a good thing to be
01:25:25
yeah oh it's incredible yeah like it's
01:25:27
it's it's there forever like it
01:25:28
establishes you as one of the greatest
01:25:30
cricketers of all time oh well I I think
01:25:33
I think see that's where I always get
01:25:34
uncomfortable right it's like I
01:25:37
did I think there's only there's only a
01:25:40
probably three players I would put into
01:25:42
that category in New Zealand history you
01:25:44
know and I you know and there's probably
01:25:46
a bunch that sit below that and who'll
01:25:48
be totally offended but you know I only
01:25:50
put probably Martin Crow Richard Headley
01:25:52
and probably Kane Williamson in that
01:25:53
issue on of that I would say great of
01:25:56
the game and the rest of us at different
01:25:59
times have done wonderful things some
01:26:01
people are pushing up closer into that
01:26:03
realm yeah but you know those are those
01:26:05
people sustained it and were the elite
01:26:08
in in the in that grouping for their
01:26:11
whole careers you know some some have
01:26:13
popped in there at different times and
01:26:15
dropped out and others have done one or
01:26:17
two decent things so but which is not to
01:26:20
diminish how I feel about my things but
01:26:22
the reality is I got you know over a
01:26:24
10-year career I played 30 tests you
01:26:26
know like it's I I I think in the same
01:26:28
period of time there's probably 100
01:26:30
tests played you know so I missed nearly
01:26:32
two-thirds of my career through injury
01:26:34
um so it's just that alone rules you out
01:26:37
of you know having the numbers you know
01:26:40
yeah although I mean yeah you're a music
01:26:43
guy so the I mean there's Beatles versus
01:26:45
the stones like um the stones have got
01:26:47
longevity The Beatles didn't have
01:26:49
longevity but well no well no you're
01:26:52
right and look in in of the day like I
01:26:54
we're all just trying to I'm just trying
01:26:55
to place it in a way that I feel
01:26:57
comfortable you know like I I know I
01:27:00
could have done more and that and but
01:27:03
then at the same time you know you come
01:27:05
back to this guy and this guy believed
01:27:07
in a whole lot of stuff that was not
01:27:10
aligned with being a professional
01:27:12
Sportsman and I'm proud of those things
01:27:14
that that he believed in as much as I as
01:27:17
the things that made him good at sport
01:27:19
so you know I carry all of that and I'm
01:27:22
proud that I stuck to those things you
01:27:24
know spoke up at times and stood out and
01:27:28
did the wrong things blatantly at times
01:27:31
you know that I'm as proud of those and
01:27:33
as much as I regret some of it I'm also
01:27:36
proud of it you know so all right well
01:27:38
let's get into that so you from 1994
01:27:41
inls to um the 1995 weed smoking
01:27:44
incident now a lot of people listening
01:27:46
to this wouldn't have even been born at
01:27:48
the time a lot of them won't remember it
01:27:50
and maybe this will this will you bring
01:27:52
back some memories but this was a big
01:27:54
[ __ ] Nationwide incident at the time
01:27:57
this is crazy yeah so where in the world
01:28:00
were you South Africa pal so and you
01:28:04
Steven Fleming Matthew Hart Matthew Hart
01:28:08
yeah you you all got done for smoking
01:28:10
smoking pot yes yeah we did Big Time
01:28:13
yeah it was crazy um a game got called
01:28:16
off early it was Christmas um so we we'
01:28:19
been we're touring in South South Africa
01:28:22
and there over Christmas so it was a
01:28:24
long time away from home um game got
01:28:26
called off because of a dangerous pitch
01:28:28
which in itself I think has only
01:28:29
happened twice in the history of the
01:28:32
game that a pitch a game's been caught
01:28:34
off because of a dangerous pitch what
01:28:35
does that mean well it means when the
01:28:37
ball was bouncing it was just hitting
01:28:39
going straight and hitting people in the
01:28:40
head or hting them in the toe it was
01:28:41
just unplayable so they called the game
01:28:43
off cuz P was going to get hurt I think
01:28:45
three people got hit in the head in the
01:28:46
first hours right so we ended up with an
01:28:49
extra day um or extra two days that we
01:28:52
didn't had accounted for so um and of
01:28:55
course we're in pal which is the wine
01:28:57
growing area party area of of South
01:29:00
Africa it's leading to Christmas
01:29:02
everyone's partying and we end up
01:29:04
getting at short notice involved in this
01:29:06
Vineyard going invited to this vineyard
01:29:08
with some of the opposition
01:29:10
players and long story short one of our
01:29:13
team and one of the opposition team
01:29:14
started talking about pot around the
01:29:16
table and there's about 11 of us all
01:29:18
around this table maybe more and
01:29:21
um I just we started saying yeah I've
01:29:24
smoked it you know I've smoked at
01:29:26
University other people said similar
01:29:29
stories and INX saying after it all sort
01:29:32
of verbally got involved in this
01:29:35
conversation then this big back pot
01:29:36
comes out on the table and it's like I
01:29:38
remember thinking ah Shivers you know
01:29:41
you know this is like been sort of now
01:29:44
now we're into this uh it was a bit and
01:29:47
I remember there when I remember
01:29:49
thinking a fim's here that'll be okay at
01:29:51
least I've got a buddy and fim you know
01:29:54
uh we he's a he was a young player um
01:29:57
and there were a few senior players
01:29:58
around and you know one guy in
01:30:01
particular been pretty vocal and and I
01:30:03
was like anyway all these they started
01:30:05
rolling with those joints and Hing them
01:30:07
around anyway came all the way around
01:30:09
had a puff and everyone else had a puff
01:30:11
and then um I remember thinking [ __ ] the
01:30:15
most vocal guy hasn't had any and I
01:30:17
remember thinking ah man that's who was
01:30:20
that a New Zealand guy yeah yeah and I
01:30:21
remember thinking oh man you don't want
01:30:23
to say who it is no no no it's not there
01:30:26
there's no point in saying any any of it
01:30:28
you know and it's like it's like but I
01:30:30
just remember thinking ah that that's
01:30:32
what I I should have I shouldn't have I
01:30:33
didn't have to I remember thinking I
01:30:35
didn't have to partake you know was it
01:30:37
an element of peer pressure or it felt a
01:30:39
little bit like that I just but not I'm
01:30:41
not blaming anybody I I was
01:30:43
fully into I did my own thing I made my
01:30:47
own decisions but I just remember
01:30:48
thinking at the time a [ __ ] that guy
01:30:50
hasn't had me and um and then then after
01:30:54
a little while I remember flim and I
01:30:56
must have got uneasy about it cuz we
01:30:58
just said oh let's let's get out of here
01:31:00
right and so but we got out of here by
01:31:03
stealing a joint so we and for later and
01:31:06
yeah and we're like so we went back and
01:31:08
so actually the and this is where I felt
01:31:10
really bad cuz you know we got we went
01:31:12
back hard the three of us had practiced
01:31:14
so hard we'd stuck together with the
01:31:16
young kids on the tour we'd been
01:31:18
actually doing really well and so we
01:31:20
went back and got hone and we like hey
01:31:21
honey you know we and so we got Hardy
01:31:25
involved and then you know that was it
01:31:28
and so then the party went on and didn't
01:31:30
think any of it next morning we all went
01:31:33
to this practice venue instead of
01:31:35
playing and it started raining so they
01:31:37
stopped the practice and they pulled us
01:31:38
all in and they said oh we're going to
01:31:41
have a meeting we're going to talk about
01:31:43
what happened yesterday and so can call
01:31:46
you in one by one so they went in his
01:31:47
room and they said oh Dion can you come
01:31:48
in so I came in and the coaches and
01:31:52
Captain and everything and I and they
01:31:54
said oh we've heard you a smoking pot
01:31:56
yesterday is this true and I was like
01:31:59
yep and then um they said ah we're you
01:32:02
know really diff really sorry to hear
01:32:04
that um you know so on on my way and um
01:32:09
so next person was walking in was flam
01:32:11
and as he walked past I said I FL this
01:32:14
what they're going to ask you and it's
01:32:16
all right I've said I've said yes I've
01:32:18
taken the ramp so just deny it you know
01:32:20
and he was like oh mate I can't do that
01:32:23
so he walked up in he said yes third
01:32:25
person was hardy hardy walked in he said
01:32:28
yes and by this stage we all got back or
01:32:31
I'd got back to the main group and told
01:32:33
them what was going on and of course
01:32:35
everyone was just like you stupid what
01:32:37
are you thinking you know you know so
01:32:40
and and then know everyone else just you
01:32:43
know just said and you know so we just
01:32:45
did they and I don't again it was a
01:32:48
terrible situation for anyone to be put
01:32:50
in right so I don't blame
01:32:52
anyone for for for for it because it
01:32:55
wasn't such it wasn't like many of them
01:32:59
probably felt they didn't weren't really
01:33:00
involved you know they probably felt
01:33:01
much like I initially did it was a bit
01:33:04
of peer pressure you had a couple of
01:33:05
Puffs on the way around was like I'm not
01:33:08
fing up for that you know um so you know
01:33:12
it was a bit of but then where it really
01:33:14
got ugly is when we flew home cuz they
01:33:16
sort of at the time they said okay we
01:33:18
know more were involved so end the story
01:33:21
and then we flew home and then at later
01:33:23
St uh New Zealand Cricket got wind of it
01:33:26
this about 6 weeks later and Alo the the
01:33:29
from a team environment they tried to
01:33:30
sort of keep a l on it yeah okay yeah
01:33:32
and then flew home and there a whole lot
01:33:35
of other politics going on in the
01:33:37
background which I won't bore people
01:33:38
yeah but we we used start done for
01:33:39
matches or did you get told off by the
01:33:41
senior leadership group or yeah we got
01:33:43
told off disappointed but but we're also
01:33:45
think but there were also people who we
01:33:47
knew that soan was like you guys are
01:33:50
idiots for owning up but yeah the
01:33:52
hypocrisy of it all so we're but you
01:33:54
know we were all sort of like in it
01:33:56
together so it was sort of was but also
01:33:58
that would feel like a good line in the
01:33:59
C not I'm not talking about it being a
01:34:01
cover up but a line in the sand like you
01:34:02
smoked a bit of pot at a [ __ ] party
01:34:05
big deal yeah yeah yeah and so we flew
01:34:07
home um and we were playing in uh uh the
01:34:11
Shell Cup Final and against I was
01:34:13
playing for Northern districts and we're
01:34:14
were playing um Wellington at the Basin
01:34:16
Reserve so this is pretty sure it the
01:34:19
Shell Cup Final and it was about to go
01:34:21
out it's about 9:30 in the morning we're
01:34:23
starting half an hour later or something
01:34:25
and the chairman of New Zealand Cricket
01:34:27
meets me in the tunnel and hands me a
01:34:29
letter and he goes you might want to get
01:34:31
a lawyer for this and I was like what
01:34:35
and he go and then Matthew Hart was in
01:34:37
the same game so he hands the same
01:34:38
letter to Hardy and we it's literally
01:34:42
I'm about to go and play pH and open
01:34:44
this letter and it's like um we've been
01:34:46
called to some court hearing that you've
01:34:50
been accused of smoking pot or tour of
01:34:52
South Africa representing New Zealand I
01:34:53
was just like all the blood drain out of
01:34:55
my body I was read sitting in the tunnel
01:34:57
just reading this thing before going out
01:34:59
into the sh up final and I was like oh
01:35:03
my God what is going on and you know you
01:35:05
my head was just spinning right I just
01:35:07
thought that's the end of my career you
01:35:10
know we played the game and I don't even
01:35:13
I can't even remember the game what
01:35:14
happened in it um but um it was remember
01:35:18
sh anyway so then we got went and got
01:35:20
lawyers had to lawyer up we all had to
01:35:22
go and meet in Oakland and and you know
01:35:24
cost thousands of dollars to go and
01:35:26
represent ourselves in the sort of
01:35:28
kangaroo court and was it out in the
01:35:29
public at this point or no no no but so
01:35:32
we sat in this meeting in this Kang
01:35:34
Court to about about midnight or even
01:35:36
later arguing our case right saying
01:35:39
because they they had a
01:35:41
judge was it like a Judicial some sort
01:35:44
of review but it was pre all of the
01:35:46
stuff there was no nothing set up so
01:35:48
they just set it up and so we had our
01:35:50
lawyers each had a lawyer each New
01:35:52
Zealand Cricket had HED museal on
01:35:54
Cricket and lawyers and there was a
01:35:56
judge adjudicating and we all had to
01:35:58
present our cases and you know in the in
01:36:01
the end they just said you're guilty we
01:36:03
know you're guilty so we're going to
01:36:04
suspend you and find you or whatever and
01:36:06
I was like so we just walked out and the
01:36:08
next day this is at midnight we walked
01:36:11
down the meeting next day it's all
01:36:12
through the papers so they must have
01:36:14
already told the papers what was
01:36:16
happening way before we left that
01:36:18
meeting and and I remember my but the
01:36:21
worst part of it all was when
01:36:24
was get having to ring my father but PRI
01:36:26
when I got that letter going home
01:36:28
afterwards and and then having to ring
01:36:31
my father from Oakland and say Dad uh
01:36:33
you know how well everything's been
01:36:35
going recently it's it's about to hit a
01:36:38
hit the skids um because of and so that
01:36:41
was one of those phone calls you don't
01:36:43
even really want to make but it like now
01:36:45
people go a smoking pop what what's a
01:36:47
big deal but literally that then we had
01:36:50
Paul homes turning up to our parents
01:36:53
houses you know like we everywhere you
01:36:58
went people were were either offering
01:37:00
your joints or or abusing you for being
01:37:03
a pothead you know or drug addict were
01:37:06
you as as and when you're fielding and
01:37:08
fans on the so so we' play the game was
01:37:12
was New Zealand Centenary so we turned
01:37:15
up to Eden Park or the team turned up to
01:37:16
Eden Park and there was just the whole
01:37:18
of Eden Park was filled with get off the
01:37:20
grass and and they used all the things
01:37:22
to make big joints and and you know it
01:37:23
was just you know people were rasar and
01:37:26
things everywhere but everywhere you
01:37:28
went out afterwards for about 2 years
01:37:30
you go to a pub and some guy would
01:37:32
always come up and go hey man you want
01:37:33
to come outside and and you're just like
01:37:37
dude are you kidding me um yeah I'm
01:37:40
guess I mean you can look back now again
01:37:43
it was almost 30 years ago so you can
01:37:44
laugh about it now but I'm guessing at
01:37:46
the time it was not funny for many many
01:37:48
years uh it wasn't funny he it was like
01:37:51
intense it was like it what it did do it
01:37:54
I think it brought Steven fim it's
01:37:56
interesting fim and I don't really have
01:37:58
much to do with each other anymore um
01:38:00
and but for a period I think it
01:38:03
galvanized a younger group that like
01:38:06
Flyn myself Chris Ken you know Nathan
01:38:09
Estel Edam pry a younger group that was
01:38:12
coming through I think felt really
01:38:15
galvanized by it and I think it was it
01:38:17
helped in a way because it was like hey
01:38:20
let's not let's be let's be honest with
01:38:23
each other going forward you know let's
01:38:25
let's sort of and let's not try let's
01:38:27
not do that again but let's like try and
01:38:29
get some get some things right yeah look
01:38:31
out for each other yeah and um and so I
01:38:33
think there was a good things came from
01:38:35
it um you know but there was also there
01:38:38
was a bit of scars there for sure you
01:38:40
know like it was just like cuz it you
01:38:43
don't you just want to be focusing on
01:38:45
that and you don't and you know you
01:38:46
don't want to even though a head smok
01:38:49
pot and even though you know you just
01:38:51
don't want to be called a po Poe head or
01:38:53
a pot smoker you know it's just you want
01:38:55
to be known for the thing that you're
01:38:56
good at you know um and so it was just
01:38:59
yeah a side so how was your um how was
01:39:02
your mental health at the time like
01:39:03
mental health wasn't even sort of a
01:39:05
thing it wasn't something we talked
01:39:07
about I watched the the Beckham
01:39:08
documentary yeah which I don't know have
01:39:10
you watched that I did yeah where
01:39:12
there's where there's people like like
01:39:14
burning and hanging effies of outside
01:39:16
bars like I'm not saying for a moment
01:39:19
ours was as intense as that but it was a
01:39:21
version of that you know like it was
01:39:23
full on we drove home my father made me
01:39:25
listen to the TalkBack radio as we drove
01:39:27
up north to go into hiding like
01:39:29
literally had to go into hiding for
01:39:31
about a week you know I just went hit
01:39:33
out on the back of the farm no ill
01:39:35
communicato and on the but my father had
01:39:38
been down at the hearing he just like
01:39:40
drove for two and a half hours all the
01:39:42
way up and he made me listen to talk
01:39:45
back radio the whole way and was sort of
01:39:47
like punishment for your exory and I'd
01:39:49
be turning it off and he'd turn it back
01:39:51
on and itd be like I was like and you
01:39:54
know you just had those the F honestly
01:39:56
You' think we killed people the way
01:39:57
people were carrying on a and of course
01:39:59
the radio hosts were like ramping it up
01:40:02
and I was just like man it felt intense
01:40:04
um but like it was just like one of
01:40:06
those things that you sort of
01:40:08
go really the one funny little story
01:40:12
that did happen is I had a middle sex
01:40:13
contract I'd already got that contract
01:40:15
but this happened in between so I I got
01:40:18
this letter with my work visa to go to
01:40:21
the to the UK to pick up my contract and
01:40:25
I was just hanging out to get to the end
01:40:26
of New Zealand summer to get out of the
01:40:28
country to go to that and they sent me a
01:40:30
work visa to so I could get into the UK
01:40:33
and on the front they rid in this thing
01:40:35
saying hey we've we've understood um
01:40:37
that this was that you got caught
01:40:39
smoking pot we of course we're
01:40:40
disappointed like New Zealand Cricket
01:40:41
but we do understand it was a oneoff
01:40:43
it's not part and so as long as it
01:40:45
doesn't happen here we're happy to have
01:40:47
you and and live up to our country cool
01:40:49
so I was like sweet so I turn up to
01:40:51
Heathrow and I walk in and the lady at
01:40:54
the counter is like um calls me up and I
01:40:57
go up and I hand over my work visa and
01:40:59
she's reading the front L and going she
01:41:03
go she pulls it off and she hands it
01:41:05
back to me she goes you might want to
01:41:07
hold on to this one and I was
01:41:10
like just I was like oh
01:41:15
[ __ ] I like yeah so she goes I hope it
01:41:18
was a good time or something as I walked
01:41:19
through and I was
01:41:21
like it's I mean
01:41:24
yeah I prol down plat too much because a
01:41:27
you wear away like representing your
01:41:29
country b um yeah pot we understand now
01:41:31
that it's not as harmful as what maybe
01:41:33
we thought it was back then but still it
01:41:35
feels like the um the lashing that you
01:41:37
guys took definitely outweighed it was
01:41:39
look yeah I mean I I I would I you know
01:41:44
I I can't I I I it was bad we we did
01:41:48
some dumb it was dumb but like you know
01:41:50
it also probably didn't deserve quite as
01:41:53
bit bigger hit as we took yeah there was
01:41:56
no social media at the time either right
01:41:58
like [ __ ] imagine that that's probably
01:42:00
good um was after your dad got the um
01:42:03
the initial like anger or whatever out
01:42:04
of his system was he um like quite sort
01:42:06
of empathetic or yeah he was they s come
01:42:09
around yeah he was good he came around
01:42:11
but you know it hung over me for it was
01:42:13
leverage you get for him for a little
01:42:15
while it wasn't short of playing the odd
01:42:17
little guilt trip on
01:42:19
me so so what you went through is
01:42:21
probably like the Australian guys with
01:42:23
the Sandpaper thing probably how they
01:42:26
feel oh yeah he only accused me of
01:42:27
letting the family down probably once
01:42:29
every month for about six months and
01:42:30
then you know went out to once every six
01:42:32
months for a couple of years you know
01:42:34
and and were you um were you seeing this
01:42:36
was pre bun say were you seeing anyone
01:42:38
at the time like did you or did you have
01:42:40
a good group of friends that you could
01:42:41
talk to about how you were feeling and
01:42:43
oh all all my mates were from University
01:42:45
so they thought they all thought it was
01:42:46
[ __ ] hilarious right because I was
01:42:48
like oh my God you know and of course I
01:42:50
outed all of them and then I always
01:42:52
remember the girl friend I had at the
01:42:54
time who she was great and um but she my
01:42:59
mother rang up to talk to her to try and
01:43:01
you know ease the get get another side
01:43:04
of the story and I always remember um
01:43:07
Shelly who was myri time saying um oh
01:43:10
look he hardly smokes any at all he's
01:43:13
probably only done it a handful of times
01:43:16
and I was like oh
01:43:20
no yeah I know you're trying to
01:43:26
like so yeah then it all kicked off
01:43:29
again was like Mom was like sh sh Shel
01:43:32
says yeah well it's just an an
01:43:35
unimaginable [ __ ] storm for anyone to go
01:43:37
through and um especially when there's
01:43:39
no sort of ending sight but has it made
01:43:41
you a stronger person built that
01:43:43
resilience do you think in a way yeah I
01:43:45
think so I think so uh I mean it's just
01:43:47
what you go through right um
01:43:50
I you know you you can't any other
01:43:53
experience it's just what it is your
01:43:56
experience and is builds your perception
01:43:58
of the world and your um Viewpoint and
01:44:01
you know mine will always have these
01:44:03
sort of things that I've that that
01:44:05
influence how I perceive things and and
01:44:08
you know I would be a liar if I said
01:44:09
they didn't have some negative impact on
01:44:11
that you know um maybe was slightly less
01:44:15
trusting after that you know s a little
01:44:17
bit sort of angry at people for for a
01:44:20
long time you know just felt quite a lot
01:44:22
of injust personal Injustice I always I
01:44:25
always had a sense of Injustice for
01:44:27
other people and I think but I always
01:44:29
felt you know like I didn't need any and
01:44:32
but I think after a while but when you
01:44:34
go through something like that it's like
01:44:36
that very intense sense of like that's
01:44:38
unfair on me you know that that and so I
01:44:40
think you go through all of those things
01:44:43
um but you just have to shake it off you
01:44:45
know and I think we all dealt with it
01:44:46
differently um uh you know but um no I
01:44:51
mean I I wouldn't
01:44:54
um I would like you can never do it but
01:44:57
part of I think when we set up helped
01:44:59
set up that Players Association was just
01:45:02
you know it was a recognition at the end
01:45:04
of my career when we were all trying to
01:45:07
work out that you need these support
01:45:09
structures around you know to prevent
01:45:10
things like that happening people need
01:45:12
mental support they need you know advice
01:45:16
they need physical support and advice
01:45:19
you know all of those things if they're
01:45:20
going to be successful on the part and
01:45:22
um you know I I would say there's still
01:45:24
some development to go there um in and
01:45:28
even today but um it's much B than it
01:45:30
was so yeah well there's no your duty of
01:45:33
care wasn't even a phrase back then was
01:45:35
it um how old are your kids now and did
01:45:38
did you did you bring this up with your
01:45:39
kids at any point or you just have they
01:45:41
read it online have they asked about it
01:45:43
there's no secrets they know at all um
01:45:45
no no they you know they I think they
01:45:48
think it's a little bit funny if I'm D
01:45:51
dad was cool once no they don't that
01:45:53
they definitely don't think that I think
01:45:55
they think it was funny stupid uh stupid
01:45:58
funny yeah I don't know definitely not
01:46:01
cool um but you know they're not but um
01:46:04
no they they're they're cool with it
01:46:06
they're like just you know just de yeah
01:46:09
they know what I'm like full stop you
01:46:11
know so they know The Good the Bad and
01:46:12
the Ugly so yeah oh that's cool well
01:46:14
let's um wrap the B the cricket stuff
01:46:16
with a couple of fun stuff I I found a
01:46:17
clip on YouTube of you um taking this
01:46:20
amazing catch catching the great Brian
01:46:22
Lara out
01:46:23
you're running backwards and you get
01:46:24
this catch um any stories about anyone
01:46:28
else any of the greats like wary yeah
01:46:31
what was your relationship like with
01:46:32
warie um I didn't have a great I didn't
01:46:35
play Australia in test match is a whole
01:46:37
bunch but I had a good relationship with
01:46:39
wary he was a just a jovial good guy you
01:46:42
know like super competitor best story I
01:46:45
can tell you about wary is I was playing
01:46:47
a game of cricket um in in Sydney under
01:46:51
lights one day in like say 96 1996
01:46:55
something like that and um uh he bowls
01:47:00
this ball called a flipper and it's like
01:47:01
this it was this mystery ball right and
01:47:03
it was big all this press and PR about
01:47:05
it right and anyway so old muggins here
01:47:09
Bing away and War comes in the bow and
01:47:11
he balls this B and I go to smack it out
01:47:13
of the park and I get clean bowled right
01:47:14
and it's like and he just like gives me
01:47:17
this big scend off and I walk off and
01:47:19
like you know there's this bit of
01:47:20
commentary of going oh what what on
01:47:22
Earth was Deon thinking you know and
01:47:24
then anyway so that's in
01:47:27
1996 2000 year 2000 maybe 2001 I'm
01:47:31
playing Australia in a test match at the
01:47:33
Brisbane and Shane War comes into bowl
01:47:36
and it's the first ball he balls comes
01:47:38
to bowl to me and he comes in you know
01:47:41
it's bright sunny day in Brisbane and he
01:47:43
gets about to bowl and he stops and he
01:47:45
leans down and he rubs his hand in the
01:47:48
dust and he looks at me and goes
01:47:50
remember Sydney nashy
01:47:53
and I was just like what I'm I'm like
01:47:56
some Joe nobody that you bowled out in
01:47:59
1996 in a one day in Sydney and you you
01:48:02
still remember it you know and he was
01:48:03
like he just making the point watch out
01:48:05
for my flipper it's coming and and I've
01:48:07
got you once ready and I was like man I
01:48:10
was it sort of actually had the opposite
01:48:12
effect it made me feel really good that
01:48:14
I even knew how I was you know it was
01:48:15
like it's great Shane one so um that's
01:48:18
neat yeah that is yeah but but that's
01:48:21
shows you the competitor he was right he
01:48:23
was into everybody he just wanted to he
01:48:24
wanted to knock you over he didn't feed
01:48:26
it anything so um but yeah I mean you
01:48:30
know I had always had great battles with
01:48:31
Ula like I got him out about six times I
01:48:34
was perori was the best keeper I would
01:48:37
only ever have Adam be my wi keeper but
01:48:39
he did drop um at a SAT and tender twice
01:48:43
so I should have had him eight times um
01:48:45
Adam denies it outright but I'm pretty
01:48:47
sure there's video evidence out there
01:48:49
that I can find if I work hard enough um
01:48:52
so but tnd do was he was the great him
01:48:55
and him and Lara were the two greats of
01:48:57
my time um and you know I I had a few
01:49:00
Runnings with Steve War and the war
01:49:02
Brothers um but I just loved playing in
01:49:05
the era you know it was just sort of one
01:49:07
of those times you had these big big
01:49:10
characters um you know Waker yunas Wy
01:49:12
mam you know kley Ambrose Ellen Donald
01:49:16
you know like there were just these
01:49:17
massive personas that you had to sort of
01:49:20
and I don't think you can quite
01:49:23
articulate what it's like to go out
01:49:25
against massive egos massive personas
01:49:28
and just to exist out in the middle
01:49:30
against those people you really have to
01:49:32
you know you have to sort of exude that
01:49:34
same sort of like um Persona you know
01:49:37
and fake it because you you know it's
01:49:38
not natural to have it but it's like
01:49:42
it's just being part of that is exciting
01:49:44
you know it was was a massive Challenge
01:49:46
and when you have those little bits of
01:49:48
success against it it's just amazing
01:49:52
yeah and I wanted to know about that
01:49:54
it's like um I mean I I suppose I speak
01:49:57
on behalf of like almost everyone that's
01:49:58
going to listen to this podcast that
01:50:00
will never achieve anything close to
01:50:02
Greatness in our life like what was it
01:50:05
like retiring at 30 is it terrifying do
01:50:07
you have like a post-career depression
01:50:09
like you go through these like extreme
01:50:11
highs that that none of us get to
01:50:13
experience and then suddenly it's like
01:50:15
your your new life is beginning yeah you
01:50:17
do you um you do it's like it it lasts
01:50:22
for for ages is way longer than it
01:50:23
should um you know like initially
01:50:25
there's a little bit of a high it's like
01:50:27
finally cuz I only retired cuz I was
01:50:29
having so many injuries and I was just
01:50:31
so tired of it you know emotionally I'd
01:50:33
drained I just the the the continual
01:50:36
getting injured and having all the media
01:50:38
say I is injured again and every family
01:50:41
member say oh why don't you just ring
01:50:43
bllr or you know why don't you just get
01:50:46
fitter everyone every friend no one
01:50:49
understands did you did you ever try
01:50:50
medicinal weed
01:50:53
no no there wasn't even a thing
01:50:56
then it was it was like yeah sorry
01:51:00
probably self-medicated a few times yeah
01:51:02
sorry breaking your flow there yeah no
01:51:04
but you know like so you get out of it
01:51:05
and you're like um uh you know you just
01:51:09
walk away and and think thank God that's
01:51:11
over but then the further you get away
01:51:13
from it the more you're like oh man I
01:51:16
didn't achieve as much as I should and
01:51:17
you have all this sort of regret and the
01:51:20
sort of a scar tissue from it you know
01:51:22
that builds up cuz it's like man I got
01:51:24
you know you feel certain times you're
01:51:26
mistreated or you know went you know
01:51:29
whatever and then that that lasts for a
01:51:32
long time and I guess why I'm so
01:51:34
grateful for having met those guys at 42
01:51:35
below and now for having my own business
01:51:37
is I just managed to stumble into
01:51:40
something where I had some another
01:51:42
creative outlet and I think C sport is
01:51:45
quite a creative Outlet you know I know
01:51:47
people don't necessarily associate jocks
01:51:49
and with with with creativity but they
01:51:51
sort of they are qu lined in a way um
01:51:54
and certainly from a passion perspective
01:51:57
you know that takes a lot of passion and
01:51:59
you deep dive into it and
01:52:01
so I think I feel really lucky to have
01:52:04
had that but man for years you know
01:52:07
because it's something you've done since
01:52:07
you're 12 it's what your whole identity
01:52:10
is wrapped around in is becoming a
01:52:11
crooker and then you do it until 30
01:52:14
that's the majority of your your adult
01:52:16
life or your entire adult life and the
01:52:18
majority of your entire life that your
01:52:21
identity has been wrapped up with
01:52:22
something so then you step out of that
01:52:24
and it's just like it's both frightening
01:52:26
and accelerating um it's like taking the
01:52:29
training wheels off and Away um you know
01:52:31
riding your bike and it's like man this
01:52:34
this is exciting but [ __ ] terrifying as
01:52:36
well yeah and how how do I work the
01:52:38
brakes um and and of course what happens
01:52:41
is every now and then you crash right
01:52:43
and when you crash you have those bad
01:52:44
times that's when you just long for oh
01:52:47
man I want the security of my identity
01:52:50
back but I think I worked out at some
01:52:52
stage in it that like I us like any
01:52:55
player that finishes I did commentary
01:52:57
for a while and even some TV work you
01:53:00
know and I just sort of felt that it was
01:53:02
really unhealthy for my psyche cuz it
01:53:04
was I felt like I was a becoming a
01:53:06
caricature of myself which was something
01:53:09
I was trying to shed shed away from you
01:53:12
know and so um I didn't want to go into
01:53:16
that I I wanted to move away from it and
01:53:18
so I sort of made this conscious
01:53:19
decision not to carry on with the the
01:53:22
the that side of it um and try to get
01:53:24
into something else and I I still think
01:53:27
that was a healthy decision even though
01:53:30
at times I you know you still sort of
01:53:32
you feel like oh maybe it be easy to go
01:53:34
back and Dabble and this sort of stuff
01:53:36
but I think certainly at that time for
01:53:39
me I needed to make that clean cut and
01:53:40
get away you know and try to carve out
01:53:43
something else do you enjoy reminising
01:53:45
from time to time like today or is it a
01:53:47
pain in the ass I enjoy it no I do I
01:53:50
enjoy tell I I I sometimes sometimes I'm
01:53:52
sick of my own voice you know like I and
01:53:55
so I I want to what I want is the next
01:53:59
adventure to be exciting and like I've
01:54:02
got this great adventure going on with
01:54:03
Bernie at the moment you know like we've
01:54:05
got this beautiful family we've been ber
01:54:09
and I have been married 20 years and it
01:54:11
doesn't even feel
01:54:12
like half quarter of that time you know
01:54:15
and I feel like um you know we're just
01:54:18
getting sort of like started in a way
01:54:21
and watching our kids grow and you know
01:54:25
trying to be a better human myself so
01:54:28
that they can so I can show them that I
01:54:31
can be evolve and change and you know as
01:54:34
as a challenge and I'm enjoying that you
01:54:37
know it's like I I'm totally committed
01:54:39
to that and [ __ ] it up often you know
01:54:43
like you know way too vocal on the
01:54:45
sideline at kids sports you know know
01:54:48
like are you actually are you not
01:54:50
conscious that people be like that's
01:54:51
[ __ ] qucious but that's it only
01:54:53
drives me on to sort of make it worse
01:54:55
you know I'm good at digging holes um so
01:54:59
but like um you know I'm quite good at
01:55:01
climbing out of them as well but um but
01:55:04
you know the the of that's that behavior
01:55:07
is like you know I my father never was
01:55:10
vocal on the sideline so you know as my
01:55:12
father's just passed away I'm like man I
01:55:15
I want to be like Dad you know I want to
01:55:17
just show that I
01:55:18
can be stoic on the sideline and and
01:55:21
enjoy
01:55:22
the wins or loses or whatever but but
01:55:25
it's hard man ockland sport kids sport
01:55:28
Inland is so competitive you know and
01:55:30
it's like it's full on um so there's all
01:55:34
of those things going on there's like
01:55:35
trying to run a business trying to make
01:55:36
sure that I put bread on the table
01:55:39
enjoying watching my Bernie's got a
01:55:41
great job and she's got her career going
01:55:43
so enjoying watching her she's a few
01:55:45
years after you know she was a sort of
01:55:48
stay-at home mom for a long time what's
01:55:49
what what is she doing she's she's um
01:55:51
she's I don't know if this is by Design
01:55:53
or but she doesn't do a lot of podcasts
01:55:55
and stuff or no she's so she's head of
01:55:58
people and marketing at um Hundai Group
01:56:01
which is um so it's a really big job
01:56:04
like great she's doing super well um and
01:56:08
loving it you know she's having her I
01:56:11
guess sort of corporate time which I I
01:56:14
had 10 years ago or whatever and um and
01:56:17
I think she's she's feeling she's
01:56:19
getting that success sense of sensation
01:56:21
of success so you know people we always
01:56:23
need little wins don't we you know to
01:56:25
keep ourselves bouncing along from lily
01:56:27
pad to Lily Pad and I feel like she's
01:56:30
having a really um good impact on the
01:56:32
people around her there and you can feel
01:56:35
it you know she's like anyone she's good
01:56:37
and bad days but that's exciting to
01:56:39
watch and and see that develop so I
01:56:41
don't know I'm just enjoying I'm trying
01:56:43
to it's I love the moment you can sit on
01:56:47
YouTube and sort of you know get all
01:56:49
this advice around how to you know live
01:56:52
Liv in the moment how to you know be
01:56:54
grateful you know be mindfulness I I
01:56:56
know it sounds cheesy and all of that
01:56:58
but I it's so wouldn't it have been
01:57:01
great to have that 25 years ago you know
01:57:03
and just you know like from what I know
01:57:06
about you you've been thee of the curve
01:57:07
though you would you were journaling
01:57:08
like at a young age like teenage years
01:57:12
yeah yeah well yeah mainly doodling
01:57:15
right initially and then and then and
01:57:18
then some pretty dodgy poetry you know I
01:57:20
remember remember had my own little Jim
01:57:22
marison pH at University where I thought
01:57:24
I was you know writing writing some
01:57:26
pretty wicked poetry anyway oh so yeah
01:57:30
so Benise for anyone that um that
01:57:32
doesn't know like Benise Minnie she was
01:57:33
that when you were in the New Zealand
01:57:34
cricket team she was like the the star
01:57:36
of the silver FS there was a McCain Z
01:57:39
that was on TV all the time where I'm
01:57:41
pretty sure it wasn't her dad but she
01:57:43
got a phone she was preparing like a TV
01:57:45
microwave dinner and the phone on The
01:57:47
Voice would be I just want to make sure
01:57:48
my girl's looking after herself
01:57:50
something like that she's a big star so
01:57:52
you guys met you ended up being at sobow
01:57:54
or something and you shouted her tequila
01:57:56
it was my birthday I'd been I'd come
01:57:58
home from India injured again so I was I
01:58:00
was my my my niece and my um my sister
01:58:05
would taken me out almost our 28th
01:58:07
birthday so I was like I was moping
01:58:09
around the house thinking a man and then
01:58:12
they said come on let's take you out so
01:58:14
I was having this big raging night with
01:58:15
my niece and my sister and I ran into a
01:58:18
friend and he owned a bar called a
01:58:20
restaurant called lemon ran into him at
01:58:23
at some bar and he goes dud come down
01:58:25
I'll shout you guys a dinner so he takes
01:58:27
us down to his
01:58:28
restaurant and I just walking and just
01:58:31
so happen the only table there is right
01:58:33
next to this group of netballers and so
01:58:36
I and they just lost the world Champs by
01:58:38
one goal against Australia and that was
01:58:39
sort of in the news and they having
01:58:41
their debrief I didn't know that but so
01:58:43
I was like oh this is awkward I'm going
01:58:45
to sit down I don't know any of them but
01:58:46
I'm going to sit down right the table
01:58:48
next to them so how do I navigate this
01:58:51
so I thought oh I'll just come by
01:58:52
rounded te killers and bring it back and
01:58:54
you know that'll break the ice they you
01:58:56
were a big star at the time though right
01:58:57
oh well I don't know well I was well
01:58:59
knowing I was in the New Zealand team
01:59:01
had been kept had been kep and so yeah
01:59:04
anyway so I brought this round Kil as I
01:59:06
took it over and Bernie always likes to
01:59:08
say she she said she thought oh that's
01:59:11
Dion Nash and then one of the other
01:59:13
girls said isn't that Dion Nash and then
01:59:15
one of the other ones said
01:59:18
who just a time stamp this pre
01:59:20
smartphone so you can't just Google and
01:59:22
go oh yeah that's oh that's cute so then
01:59:26
how did so how did you end up um yeah 20
01:59:29
years married from that well we just num
01:59:31
yeah no well no initially no I I checked
01:59:34
the number down by somehow and then um
01:59:37
you know it took a while you know there
01:59:39
was it didn't didn't all happen straight
01:59:40
away but eventually I managed to hook up
01:59:43
with a date with her when she was in
01:59:45
Oakland you know a month or two later I
01:59:47
can't remember and um I took her out for
01:59:50
a day night there's a quarry jump where
01:59:52
I was I was always into jumping off high
01:59:54
things into water so I did the polis
01:59:56
Bridge jump so I was always like right
01:59:58
let's find the next highest thing right
02:00:00
and so um there's this Quarry over in
02:00:03
tuna and lake puki and he used to be
02:00:05
able to jump I think you still probably
02:00:06
can if you but um us we used to go and
02:00:09
jump it's about I don't know eight or N9
02:00:11
M you know it's reasonable you got to
02:00:12
jump out over gors and it's a little bit
02:00:15
thrilling so anyway so I I my first date
02:00:17
I took her there and said hey let's go
02:00:19
jump into this Lake and she was like
02:00:22
okay so anyway so I got her in a bikini
02:00:25
on her first dat and got her jumping off
02:00:27
this high C I thought okay this girl's
02:00:29
all good I like her so oh that's cool
02:00:32
yeah so then um no so she she um yeah so
02:00:36
that was and then it sort of kicked off
02:00:38
from there but yeah amazing all these
02:00:41
yeah I suppose um I don't know yeah must
02:00:44
have been good meeting someone that's
02:00:46
sort of like a peer like uh that's
02:00:47
that's an equal so there's no sort of
02:00:49
power and balance like if if you're if
02:00:51
you're [ __ ] stress pregame or
02:00:53
whatever she sort of got some sort of
02:00:54
understanding of what it's like in high
02:00:56
performance sport um the highs and lows
02:00:58
of all that yeah and and she'd had her
02:01:01
own share of injuries and um she she she
02:01:04
was largely quite loved though not not
02:01:06
as quite as controversial I always felt
02:01:08
we've got this thing this um we got this
02:01:11
thing from the southern times cuz she
02:01:12
was playing for this thing at the time
02:01:13
and in Vago and it's the front page or
02:01:16
you know the flyer that they sell the
02:01:17
paper with so it goes out and it's the
02:01:19
you know it's just the headline and it
02:01:20
sits in the it's the Southland times and
02:01:23
it's like alberes is engaged and I was
02:01:26
like oh my God what we got taking on the
02:01:28
Hall of
02:01:31
Southland so yeah so um anyway so yeah
02:01:34
but that was a buzz you know they were
02:01:36
that was a cool time as well that whole
02:01:37
sting thing because Aden H was going out
02:01:40
with Jeff Wilson and um Tanya um Dalton
02:01:44
and Dwayne were down there so we all
02:01:46
these boyfriends would we were like the
02:01:48
Wags we would fly in from ockland and to
02:01:50
watch these sting games it would be like
02:01:52
sort of who's who in the crowd it was
02:01:54
quite funny that's neat and um so is she
02:01:58
taller than you yeah yes she is how how
02:02:01
was that how was that was that weird in
02:02:02
the beginning yeah for both you there
02:02:04
was definitely like a clean out of the
02:02:06
Shoe Closet that's all of those ones are
02:02:08
going AR they so um oh yeah well she's
02:02:11
she's 6'2 I'm I'm you know not quite 6'2
02:02:15
so it's it's close but no she's
02:02:17
definitely taller um and um oh yeah it
02:02:22
was you know it wasn't what I was
02:02:25
intending I'm sure it was to be the
02:02:27
short person in the relationship that's
02:02:28
for sure but yeah well I just think when
02:02:31
you meet she's such you know youve you
02:02:33
know Bernie she's just such a engaging
02:02:36
person and we just we're so compatible
02:02:39
we she just loves humans she loves
02:02:41
talking um and she brought out that in
02:02:44
me you know like I she she got me out of
02:02:46
my shell and you know and you know she
02:02:49
is she she's just a wonderful person to
02:02:52
be around and so you talk about creating
02:02:56
a positive environment around yourself
02:02:57
you know that was the the biggest tick I
02:03:00
could have made you know it was just
02:03:02
like wow this person's I just feel great
02:03:04
you know and wouldn't and like you say
02:03:07
she wouldn't she would she never D
02:03:09
dwells on things and she never dives off
02:03:11
into negativity or or or you know
02:03:14
feeling sorry for herself or anything
02:03:16
like that and so you you can't be like
02:03:18
that if you're around a person who who
02:03:20
like that you know no it's just you the
02:03:22
moment you start having any of that
02:03:24
behavior you're like oh my God I'm
02:03:26
letting this show down here you know I
02:03:28
got to get my [ __ ] together and get up
02:03:29
and play on the same terms you know so I
02:03:32
think um that's been a really positive
02:03:35
thing for me you know that's wonderful
02:03:38
and yeah so you've been together like 25
02:03:39
years now like a oh yeah late 9s 03
02:03:43
010203 so yeah so what's it 21 years
02:03:47
yeah so yeah so oh oh no sorry that's
02:03:49
marriage but yeah no yeah so
02:03:52
yeah no yeah pre the last Millennium
02:03:56
yeah have you um got I mean you don't
02:03:59
get that far in a relationship without
02:04:01
having any rough patches you have you
02:04:02
had any counseling or anything or are
02:04:04
you just naturally good at communicating
02:04:05
on your own and working through
02:04:07
obstacles when they come up ah she's
02:04:10
pretty straight man like it's like if if
02:04:13
I'm playing up or doing just you know
02:04:16
she'll just and vice versa to be honest
02:04:19
like no we we like anyone of course
02:04:22
there's you know rough patches of of
02:04:24
whatever you know but it's but no I mean
02:04:27
she's just got my back you know and I
02:04:28
think I've got his and not you know part
02:04:31
of all of the dope smoking and the you
02:04:34
know maybe the scar tissue of our
02:04:36
sporting careers um it's really
02:04:39
important to some feel like someone's
02:04:40
got you back and you're living up to
02:04:42
their expectations you know
02:04:44
and you did right you've used the scar
02:04:47
tissue thing a couple of times and I
02:04:48
think um whenever anything like this
02:04:50
happens you just you and this is quite
02:04:53
sad but your circle just gets smaller
02:04:54
and Tighter right yeah that's right yeah
02:04:57
yeah 100% And it's like and then you
02:04:59
build out a little bit I think now and
02:05:01
you know you start to build out a little
02:05:02
bit right and bring the other people
02:05:05
into it and change but um yeah no I mean
02:05:10
I we've traveled a lot I think that's a
02:05:13
cool thing to do as well we went to
02:05:14
South America when we first got together
02:05:17
for about 4 months um and we traveled
02:05:20
around went way up and into the middle
02:05:22
of the Amazon and you know people
02:05:24
couldn't even speak Spanish they were
02:05:26
speaking chiuan and you know we had all
02:05:28
these crazy experiences together which
02:05:29
was that sort of tested their metal you
02:05:32
know it was like it was like okay if we
02:05:35
got through that we can probably last at
02:05:37
least a couple of years of marriage yeah
02:05:39
yeah oh how could and how old are the
02:05:40
kids now 17 15 13 right yeah [ __ ] so you
02:05:44
guys are going to start being almost
02:05:45
like empty nests soon yeah so the oldest
02:05:48
one starting to look at universities
02:05:49
he's in his last year at school man it's
02:05:52
crazy how quick it it goes through and
02:05:54
um yeah but exciting as as well the best
02:05:58
thing we've done recently we we after Co
02:06:00
I had my 50th during Co and we' saved up
02:06:03
to have this big party and of course
02:06:05
couldn't have it so we're like well
02:06:07
let's go to Europe you know and take the
02:06:09
kids to Europe CU we had saved the saved
02:06:11
some money and so we planned this family
02:06:13
trip to Europe and wow what the the
02:06:16
perfect ages to take the family away and
02:06:19
just to have this family trip somewhere
02:06:22
when in the middle of summer in the
02:06:24
middle of Europe was that was the best
02:06:27
thing we've ever done you know it was
02:06:28
just like seeing your kids exposed to
02:06:31
other cultures and just their worlds
02:06:33
opening up you know and just somehow
02:06:35
took a lot of the pressure I think some
02:06:37
sometimes being from New Zealand there's
02:06:39
a lot of pressure in the smallness of
02:06:42
the place you know like because it feels
02:06:43
so competitive it feels like you if you
02:06:46
don't like you know whereas I think
02:06:48
seeing the world and just going man the
02:06:50
world's so bad
02:06:52
somehow I could my sense was it relieved
02:06:54
a lot of internal pressure certainly
02:06:57
from my oldest one I was just like wow
02:06:58
this is an adventure out here you know
02:07:00
there's so much to do and just seeing
02:07:03
whether it's real or not that was my
02:07:05
perception and seeing those little
02:07:07
growth things happen on your kids is
02:07:09
just enriching you know and you are you
02:07:12
proud of yourself as a
02:07:13
dead yeah of course yeah but I'm
02:07:16
also it's I Chris Ken and I we used to
02:07:20
Chris Ken and I weren't always mates you
02:07:21
know we some buttheads a lot and we came
02:07:24
up with the saying like years and years
02:07:26
ago which was and you know I think we're
02:07:30
having an argument here like you just
02:07:31
don't respect me and I said my retort to
02:07:34
Kenzie was respect is not something you
02:07:36
earn and keep it's something you keep
02:07:37
earning and it was like and he's never
02:07:40
let he's never let me forget it and I
02:07:43
and um but he loves that saying now it's
02:07:46
a great line I've never heard that it's
02:07:48
awesome yeah and he but he um you know
02:07:50
and it's it's sort of true but I didn't
02:07:53
even know what I was saying I was just
02:07:54
trying to win the argument with them I
02:07:56
think and um but uh but it's funny like
02:08:00
that that's true of being a parent you
02:08:01
know like it's like every time I do
02:08:04
something dumb or I do some silly thing
02:08:08
as a parent you know and or react badly
02:08:11
or just grumpy and angry when I should
02:08:13
have just been mow and cool um you know
02:08:16
I I have to rearn that bit I feel I have
02:08:18
to rearn that bit of respect you know
02:08:19
it's like [ __ ] I just blew it it's all
02:08:21
going so good you know because in in our
02:08:24
household growing up like in the 70s and
02:08:25
' 80s it was always um you do as I say
02:08:27
not as I do I feel like you can't get
02:08:29
away with it now you have to lead by
02:08:31
example totally totally Al so yes Kinsey
02:08:34
you guys are quite close right are you
02:08:36
quite good friends well we are I mean
02:08:38
you know but I think a lot was made cuz
02:08:41
he went through all that match fixing
02:08:42
and his problems and now he's obviously
02:08:44
got his health issues which he's doing
02:08:46
amazing to come back from um I me I I
02:08:49
love following him on Instagram has has
02:08:51
junor to teach himself to walk again
02:08:53
yeah incredible right it's the match
02:08:55
fixing stuff like whether it happened
02:08:56
whether it didn't happen it kind of puts
02:08:58
everything into perspective I think in a
02:09:00
way on the big scheme of Life yeah and I
02:09:02
think to be honest like chis Chris and I
02:09:04
by the end of our career we're good
02:09:05
mates um you know Adam was a good mate
02:09:07
we probably were you know you sort of
02:09:10
get a bit clicky in different groups and
02:09:12
we the three of us were probably good
02:09:14
mates every we had others as well that
02:09:16
as well but that was probably a bit of a
02:09:19
core I would say um and then so you know
02:09:23
you stand up for them but look I would
02:09:25
have stood up for Steven Fleming or
02:09:26
Nathan Estel or Roger TW or Jeff any of
02:09:30
those guys that we did stuff with during
02:09:31
that period they were like brothers
02:09:34
really and I still even though there's
02:09:37
through all of this sort of there has
02:09:39
been some separation but I still think
02:09:41
of all of those guys like that I have
02:09:43
ultimately all have their back and I
02:09:45
hope they would have mine um and you
02:09:48
know that's part of I hope when we get
02:09:50
together in this Union you know we can
02:09:52
sort of just be together again you know
02:09:56
um but um but yeah so but now keny's
02:10:00
Ken's doing great and you know it's it's
02:10:03
tough right like going back to leaving
02:10:05
the game is tough enough without having
02:10:07
to go through all of what he went
02:10:08
through and now having all his health
02:10:10
issues and personal issues and and stuff
02:10:13
so you know we all yeah we all need to
02:10:16
be there don't we for a m yeah 100% [ __ ]
02:10:19
this has been a hell of a cheat this
02:10:21
might um this might be the long you
02:10:23
didn't have any meetings up did you I'm
02:10:25
sorry this has been over two hours oh
02:10:26
[ __ ] sorry mate I I always remember John
02:10:29
Bridges you remember John Bridges from
02:10:31
TV3 yes yeah of course so I I went to a
02:10:34
function once and he um he uh is a
02:10:37
corporate function and he got up and he
02:10:39
spoke and he said he he was giving
02:10:40
advice to speakers and he said my the
02:10:42
first piece of advice is when someone
02:10:44
asks you to speak just say no and when
02:10:47
everyone's like what and he was like and
02:10:49
he goes whenever someone ask me to get
02:10:50
up here and speak I say no and then and
02:10:52
then it said if they come back and they
02:10:53
ask again I say still say no and then if
02:10:57
they come back a third time he said then
02:10:58
I think about what is is they want me to
02:11:00
say and if I'm really passionate and
02:11:02
I've got something to say then I might
02:11:04
say yes but I might also say no and and
02:11:07
he was basically saying like you know
02:11:09
just unless you've got something really
02:11:11
worthwhile saying just don't don't get
02:11:13
up there it's not not worth it and which
02:11:15
was a really it was a good message I got
02:11:18
it it was like yeah you got to have
02:11:19
something to say and so I I you know I I
02:11:24
do feel like I've got something to say
02:11:25
but then at the same time I'm like I'm
02:11:27
sick of the sound of my own voice so I I
02:11:29
did think as I was coming today this
02:11:31
might I might have to offer my
02:11:32
resignation to all podcasts after this
02:11:34
one this might I've reached the Pinnacle
02:11:36
I reached Mar's podcast I can now
02:11:39
officially retire yeah no more well well
02:11:42
if this is your last time on please cuz
02:11:44
it's um you do have a lot to say it's um
02:11:46
it's been a a hell of a life and I think
02:11:48
the exciting thing is there's someone
02:11:49
that's like the same age as you it's um
02:11:52
you know you get to I don't know when I
02:11:53
was in my early 20s I thought life was
02:11:55
over by the time you got to 50 yeah um
02:11:57
and then you get here and you realize oh
02:11:58
no you can still grow and still develop
02:12:00
and still change as a person and I think
02:12:01
that's that's really exciting you good
02:12:03
with aging I'm excited I'm actually
02:12:05
really excited I've got so much to
02:12:07
develop like I mean if imagine if it was
02:12:08
all done right it would be like so
02:12:10
boring um no I'm I'm sort of I'm really
02:12:13
excited I I definitely have some things
02:12:15
I need to work on and get better at and
02:12:17
I and I want to get better at you know
02:12:20
um I I did meet um I went on this course
02:12:24
once and this I was I was being
02:12:26
problematic within it this is only about
02:12:27
five or six years ago and I was
02:12:29
challenging the people presenting it you
02:12:31
know anyway and this lady comes up the
02:12:34
lady one of the presenters comes up to
02:12:35
me towards the end out a break and she
02:12:38
goes you know Dion with Mana comes great
02:12:41
responsibility and I was like
02:12:44
oh oh that was that one that one I have
02:12:48
to think about that for a minute but um
02:12:50
is that that from Transformers I don't
02:12:52
knower I don't know what it was from but
02:12:54
I was like it was like it was true it
02:12:56
was like she was basically accusing me
02:12:58
of throwing my way around without any
02:13:01
care you know and um and being SM being
02:13:05
smart enough to do it and but not allow
02:13:08
not respecting what the group needed or
02:13:10
whatever you know and I thought ah that
02:13:13
that was a good timely poking the ribs
02:13:16
you know and and so I think that's the
02:13:19
thing I'm probably trying to work on at
02:13:20
the moment is just being aware of the
02:13:23
impact that I can have good both
02:13:25
positively and and negatively and trying
02:13:28
to sort of like you know learn when
02:13:31
learn when I can need to just leave the
02:13:33
room and and go and regroup myself cuz
02:13:37
you know I'm I'm an oversharer as youve
02:13:40
probably just worked out and an over
02:13:42
talker and you know sometimes in doing
02:13:44
that you just actually needed to have
02:13:45
stopped half an hour ago probably like
02:13:47
this podcast and then um and then um
02:13:50
leave then everyone would be fine but
02:13:52
because you stay you over you over
02:13:54
analyze it you over talk it or you just
02:13:56
end up getting tired and saying the
02:13:58
wrong thing yeah well I think like from
02:14:00
my perspective I think this has been
02:14:01
great like there's nothing I'd eat it
02:14:03
out and I I appreciate you being so open
02:14:05
especially about the stuff and like the
02:14:07
'90s um yeah I heard a podcast just
02:14:10
recently that Arley Williams did with um
02:14:12
the between two beers guys oh yeah I've
02:14:14
been on their podcast I know you too and
02:14:16
he remember he got done buying some
02:14:17
cocaine and Paris Paris um and he said
02:14:20
when you you make the news people say
02:14:22
it's all it's tomorrow's fish and chip
02:14:23
rapper or whatever he goes and that's
02:14:25
true for everyone else but not the
02:14:26
person involved yes and I feel like
02:14:28
that's true for you um seems like it was
02:14:30
uh an ongoing thing for a while so I
02:14:32
appreciate you you know raking over
02:14:34
those old CTS yeah and and look I mean
02:14:37
as I say it's like everyone else that
02:14:40
everyone we touched on and that they
02:14:41
were on their own Journey you know so I
02:14:43
don't hold any of them I don't hold any
02:14:47
grudges that's one thing I genuinely
02:14:49
feel I don't have a single grud against
02:14:52
anyone I think anyone how they behaved
02:14:54
was always Justified all throughout you
02:14:56
know um so but it but it doesn't change
02:15:01
how what I went through so that you know
02:15:03
that that was a personal thing I they
02:15:05
didn't have to go that I I did so I yeah
02:15:08
I mean I don't know I I feel like uh
02:15:11
it's all it's all just part of the
02:15:13
journey right it's exciting
02:15:15
I I want to keep going on but I I
02:15:17
watched my father die just couple weeks
02:15:21
ago how old by the way
02:15:23
9094 one month short of 94 so 93 but um
02:15:27
never made it to 100 much like yourself
02:15:29
yeah that's
02:15:31
right yeah felt short um yeah should
02:15:34
have done more should have achieved more
02:15:36
um but um no but it was like one of
02:15:39
those things I I don't know you reflect
02:15:40
a lot and I don't think I've fully
02:15:43
processed it but I guess my what I would
02:15:46
say is like if you if you know have the
02:15:49
conversations you want to have with your
02:15:51
parents now because by the time you
02:15:53
realize you want to have them it's sort
02:15:55
of too late you know like a the aging
02:15:59
process does catch up with people you
02:16:01
know my father was and and what I think
02:16:04
happens is they dad was still had all
02:16:06
his faculties but you know not to the
02:16:10
point where you can have a philosophical
02:16:12
discussion and and by the time I wanted
02:16:14
or felt I could have that with with my
02:16:17
father I'd left I'd left it too long you
02:16:19
know and so I think having a better
02:16:23
relationship with your parents just does
02:16:26
can never start too soon you know and
02:16:28
demanding to have those conversations
02:16:30
soon it's hard though way because it s
02:16:32
from what from what I've learned about
02:16:33
your dad today like he was like just a
02:16:34
quite a stoic hard Northland farmer so
02:16:37
if you don't have that sort of
02:16:39
relationship not not necessarily a
02:16:41
friendship but that fatherson
02:16:42
relationship that a lot of other people
02:16:44
have it's hard to just sort of like
02:16:45
manufacture that yourself as an adult it
02:16:47
it's almost that that's it and I
02:16:49
couldn't man I couldn't manufacture and
02:16:51
in his own way it wasn't wouldn't have
02:16:53
been dad you know so he he didn't but
02:16:57
which is not to say Dad was pH
02:16:58
philosophical he had like it was just he
02:17:01
was a quiet stoic guy and he there was
02:17:05
you know there's that Unwritten thing of
02:17:07
like I don't I don't need to tell you
02:17:09
this cuz you already know it and of
02:17:11
course I did but it didn't mean I didn't
02:17:14
rally against him going [ __ ] tell me
02:17:16
it though you know but also also um yeah
02:17:21
I don't know what was said or what was
02:17:22
left unsaid but um you know he I'm sure
02:17:25
he must have been immensely proud that
02:17:27
he gave you the poem If yeah as a posted
02:17:30
to as a boy and that ended up becoming
02:17:32
the the name of your business like is
02:17:34
that something you discussed no no we
02:17:37
never did but You' You' when whenever
02:17:39
you've mentioned Triumph and disaster in
02:17:41
the root of the name of your company um
02:17:43
you've mentioned him and um I it was a
02:17:45
bege of Honor for him well like I don't
02:17:48
yeah that's what I sort of mean I think
02:17:50
it's like
02:17:52
we you know you wer a verbal family not
02:17:56
with my no not with my mother yes was
02:17:59
like but like Mom Mom was different kid
02:18:01
of fish but Dad was like the opposite
02:18:04
and it was like but I admire that in
02:18:06
them too you know like I can't that's
02:18:08
the thing I think we we get so wound up
02:18:10
in you know all these different things
02:18:13
and it's like sometimes a s you know you
02:18:16
can understand people through silence
02:18:17
right and just being with them and
02:18:19
understanding them right and it's like
02:18:21
we know more about people you know not
02:18:23
all communication is is verbal and and I
02:18:26
think that you know sometimes I I said I
02:18:29
did find sorry to carry on I'll I'll
02:18:31
shut up in a minute but no no I'm good
02:18:34
as long as you good well I did find this
02:18:36
thing I my the thing I said which I
02:18:39
really like at the moment is this um
02:18:41
intellectual honesty I said this on
02:18:42
another um podcast with the guys at
02:18:45
mandate actually who are awesome dudes
02:18:47
you should meet up with them they I've
02:18:49
been on their podcast
02:18:51
people and um anyway but like I found
02:18:54
myself talking about like intellectual
02:18:55
honesty and I was like I reog it's the
02:18:57
thing that that social media is really
02:18:59
taken away from us it's this ability to
02:19:01
make a statement and then hop out behind
02:19:03
a su so if I want to have a proper
02:19:06
conversation with you I've got to take
02:19:07
your opinion in the spirit that it's
02:19:10
given and within the context that it's
02:19:12
given and it's so easy to take out of
02:19:14
context one thing you've said inflame it
02:19:16
and twist it a little bit and Reay it
02:19:18
back to you and totally misrepresent
02:19:20
present you and what what does it
02:19:22
achieve it helps me win my point but it
02:19:25
doesn't help us win a a common goal of
02:19:28
understanding each other or or working
02:19:30
towards a solution on a topic you know
02:19:33
and I feel like that we need to fight
02:19:35
for that intellectual honesty in all of
02:19:37
our conversations that we can possibly
02:19:40
have because that's the way we're going
02:19:41
to move forward as a country as a people
02:19:44
as you know just generally but also I
02:19:48
think when you're really honest with
02:19:49
someone and you really listen it forces
02:19:51
you to listen and go and then you can
02:19:54
learn and I I think that's what I'm most
02:19:56
excited about trying to do is learn a
02:19:59
bit more like I feel like we get you
02:20:01
reach a landing and I feel like
02:20:04
sometimes you close down because I've
02:20:05
got got all this information that's got
02:20:06
me to this point I just need to
02:20:08
consolidate this now and that stops you
02:20:10
then bringing in more information
02:20:12
because you want to make the most of
02:20:14
where you're at and sometimes and I just
02:20:16
feel like I'm at the cusp of like going
02:20:17
actually you know what I actually need
02:20:19
more information and I want bring it in
02:20:21
and open up and change and evolve a bit
02:20:23
more and I'm open to that now you know
02:20:25
like the Stepping Stones all way some
02:20:27
people I think can keep it on an
02:20:29
escalator but I I tend to just have to
02:20:31
keep getting to Landings and control it
02:20:34
a bit more that's um yeah you've got a
02:20:36
growth mindset so I feel like you're
02:20:38
always going to be um trying to grow and
02:20:39
expand and get the best out of yourself
02:20:42
and I I suppose um yeah one of the great
02:20:44
lessons that maybe you got from your dad
02:20:45
is um how you parent your own kids
02:20:48
differently yeah yeah you know you learn
02:20:51
you learn stuff some stuff to do and
02:20:53
some stuff to do differently I suppose
02:20:55
that's the blessing in a way well I
02:20:56
think I also think the one thing I would
02:20:58
say kids are so smart they don't they
02:21:00
don't whatever whatever impact I think
02:21:04
what I'm having is just about it's the
02:21:07
reality of it is about 1% of that you
02:21:09
know so I'm far less important as like
02:21:11
than I've made myself out to be in like
02:21:14
they just or at least in the sense of
02:21:16
what my message is to them they just I
02:21:18
can see my oldest son looking at me and
02:21:19
going
02:21:21
you know
02:21:23
whatever and I'm not and I can sort of
02:21:25
almost see it see his mind thinking
02:21:27
going man I'm not going to be like that
02:21:30
but I'm going to you're over this side
02:21:33
um so yeah but no no but hey Willison
02:21:36
thank you for having me on here cuz I
02:21:37
I've enjoyed it I I feel like I watched
02:21:40
you I watched a bunch of them and you
02:21:42
know cuz I we watched a bunch of the
02:21:44
early ones and then you know you've been
02:21:46
so prolific that I I couldn't keep up
02:21:47
but when I thought I'd come on here
02:21:50
and I think what you're doing I was
02:21:52
really encouraged by watching it and
02:21:54
just going well you
02:21:56
are asking really smart relevant
02:21:59
questions and people are responding to
02:22:02
that and I think that's a skill right
02:22:04
and that's why you've been successful I
02:22:05
think you've like you I'm not just
02:22:07
blowing smoke it's like it feels like
02:22:10
it's a really important thing you know
02:22:12
to have conversations like this so I
02:22:14
just you know I hope you don't run out
02:22:16
of you know kiwis to do it you might
02:22:18
have to move overseas but like it's so
02:22:21
ening and I
02:22:22
watched I didn't watch them all the way
02:22:24
through but I every person I was like oh
02:22:27
man Z Gilford you know when I watched
02:22:29
that I was like wow you got Zack
02:22:31
Guilford to offer up some stuff you know
02:22:33
like I was like man this this is awesome
02:22:35
Matthew Ridge I was like he was that was
02:22:38
an awesome he got the Warriors bit wrong
02:22:40
you you I'd love you need to get him
02:22:42
back in cuz you it was two years ago and
02:22:44
it's just before all of the wi is kicked
02:22:46
off yeah yeah like we get get him back
02:22:49
in Edam peror your old mate like I
02:22:50
haven't watched it I've got to go and
02:22:52
watch some Mark Richardson I saw Mark
02:22:54
was great too yeah it's it's bloody it's
02:22:56
bloody great one thing I'm realizing is
02:22:58
that
02:22:59
everyone absolutely everyone is dealing
02:23:01
with some [ __ ] yes and everyone's going
02:23:03
through something and um I don't know
02:23:05
when you realize that it's quite it's
02:23:06
quite comforting in a way it makes makes
02:23:08
you feel less aligned with what you're
02:23:09
going through of course yeah and it's
02:23:11
just yeah yeah mate I I can't than you
02:23:14
enough for your time as you know been a
02:23:16
big fan of your work for a number of
02:23:17
years so it's finally it's good to find
02:23:19
I suppose you're one of those I've had
02:23:20
on the back bur like Dion's just around
02:23:22
the corner we'll get him on one day um
02:23:25
but you've been a great support and I'll
02:23:26
never forget that Triumph and disaster
02:23:28
was the you know the first brand to come
02:23:30
on board as a sponsor because um you
02:23:32
don't forget these little things no you
02:23:34
don't and but thanks it's been awesome
02:23:36
and I'm I'm stoked to see it all going
02:23:37
well so you know if we um I'm sure our
02:23:41
paths will cross again 100% now we near
02:23:44
doing a fragrance are you going back to
02:23:45
working on a fragrance now it's in the
02:23:47
pipeline actually so it's coming um uh
02:23:50
and that's I'm more nervous about this
02:23:53
than any of the other ones we've done
02:23:54
because it's like it's got to be right
02:23:56
you know so um you don't CU you know
02:24:01
this is what you personally wear it as
02:24:03
your signature so we've got we're
02:24:05
waiting on three more samples coming in
02:24:06
from Europe first round's done so was
02:24:09
probably a few iterations away but hope
02:24:12
hopefully we're getting pretty close
02:24:13
after this next set so awesome any um
02:24:16
any like sneak peek about what the scent
02:24:18
is or how do you describe drop when I've
02:24:21
got the next one I'll come down and you
02:24:22
can be part of the process how about
02:24:24
that you smoke some weed can you spray
02:24:26
someone
02:24:28
disguises it's a I think you can yeah
02:24:31
it's a cheap shot I'm sorry ad on N
02:24:34
thanks so much mate awesome good to see
02:24:36
you right
02:24:39
[Music]
02:24:50
oh
