00:00:06
Michael Aring, welcome to my podcast.
00:00:08
>> Good day, mate. Good to be here. I've
00:00:09
been uh I've been checking you out and
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uh yeah, a lot of fun. You have a lot of
00:00:13
fun here, don't you? So, it's uh good to
00:00:15
be here.
00:00:15
>> Thanks. Good to have you here. Yeah. Um
00:00:16
a friend of yours has messaged me
00:00:17
saying, "Oh, you should get Mike Aring
00:00:19
on the podcast." And um I I I messaged
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Why did you want to do a podcast? I uh
00:00:24
to be honest with you, Dom, I mean I um
00:00:27
as you know u you know from from
00:00:29
speaking to you before we came on air I
00:00:30
um I've I've had a bit of bad health
00:00:32
over the last 10 years and um and I've
00:00:34
had a bit of bad press as well which
00:00:36
we'll probably touch on and and it and
00:00:38
it and it knocked me for six at the time
00:00:40
you know and it was really harsh. It
00:00:42
destroyed business that I had. I work
00:00:43
with special needs kids. Uh and so the
00:00:46
bad reference I got, you know, from from
00:00:49
the media basically uh killed my
00:00:51
business and and it really put me in a
00:00:53
bad light. And um I've sort of taken
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quite a few years now just to just to
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basically get back to being okay with
00:01:02
being me,
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>> you know what I mean? And u and so um
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Tracy said to me, "Look, Dom does these
00:01:09
wonderful podcasts. Have a look." So I
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had a look. I I watched the full uh
00:01:13
Christian Cullen one. What a legend.
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What a legend. And I've seen him at a
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few engagements before in the past. He's
00:01:18
a nice guy to chat to and uh and I
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thought, yeah, I'm probably at the stage
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now where I'm a bit more confident and
00:01:23
I'm happy again with life and uh
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>> and get in there, you know, be a bit of
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fun. We'll have a I'm sure we've got a
00:01:29
lot of good things to talk about.
00:01:30
>> Absolutely. So, who is Michaeling? Is he
00:01:33
like a lar, a bad boy, a con man, an
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alcoholic? I used to be
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I think been described as a likable
00:01:43
rogue. I think that would be a nice way
00:01:45
to describe me. I um I was just a guy
00:01:47
who came from nothing in Wellington. You
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know, I came from a a you know, a broken
00:01:51
family. We had I was the youngest of
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four kids and dad left when I was 10 and
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my mom battled. You know, mom's a nurse
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and um you know, my my outlet I never
00:01:59
got in trouble with police or anything
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like that when I was a kid and my outlet
00:02:03
was sport. I was uh I was, you know,
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probably bit better than average at
00:02:07
sport and I I took on every sport that I
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was able to and uh I lived in a little
00:02:12
street in Nio in Wellington and it was
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just ideal for for for a breeding ground
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for sports people because me and my
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mates just used to play cricket or
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soccer and rugby and uh go home, stay
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home, hide and seek every day. And uh
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and and another good thing that I when I
00:02:30
look back now and uh I used to live
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about 5 km from school which meant
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walking there and back each day
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>> barefoot in the snow
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>> mate. Hated it. Hated it you know. But
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looking back now that gave me a good
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basis for a uh you know for my fitness
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level
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>> and it also gave me a determination. you
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know, you finish a long day at school
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and you're just looking at the top of
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the hill cuz it's way up a hill where we
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lived.
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>> You think, I don't want to walk up
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there, but you do it and you just do the
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hard yards. And it sort of gave me a
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good a uh a good a good starting point
00:03:03
for my uh my sporting career, I suppose.
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>> Yeah, there's there's so much to unpack.
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I I wasn't aware of like when when we
00:03:12
organized this podcast, I wasn't aware
00:03:13
of the backstory. I just knew Michael
00:03:15
Arting, you know, the White Fern, the
00:03:17
goalie, um who had a career that was
00:03:19
briefer than what I should have been.
00:03:20
Definitely.
00:03:21
>> Um, and then you do some research. Do do
00:03:23
you do you just attract chaos?
00:03:25
>> I seem to. I I think you touch wood. I I
00:03:29
won't be getting much more for the for
00:03:31
the near future, but I uh I um
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I I think with being a sports person,
00:03:38
you you have a lot of free time and
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quite often
00:03:44
you associate yourself with other people
00:03:46
have free time and they're quite often
00:03:48
not the most desirable people that you
00:03:50
want to be with. And I and I made poor
00:03:52
choices in the past, I must admit. And
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um
00:03:56
you know it all comes back to haunt you
00:03:58
at a later stage in life. I think uh
00:04:00
I've never gone out of my way to be to
00:04:02
be upsetting or upset people and uh
00:04:05
>> but uh you know when you're in the
00:04:07
public eye with this you know with sport
00:04:09
um you can attract that you know you
00:04:12
attract people's attention and um and as
00:04:13
I said I got tred with a bad brush and
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got some poor press but um
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>> you know all my mates and and people
00:04:20
that know me and guys and girls would be
00:04:22
phoning me up saying I got a call from a
00:04:24
reporter you know lovely complimentary
00:04:26
and then after three or four minutes
00:04:28
they started They're trying to get dirt
00:04:29
on you and this is a repetitive thing
00:04:31
that's happened, you know, and it's
00:04:32
like, God, I just want to run away and
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hide. But I mean, it's
00:04:36
>> it's life, mate. You know, it's people
00:04:38
trying to get a story and that.
00:04:39
>> Well, yeah, we'll get into some of that.
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We'll get into some of the good stuff
00:04:42
first, though.
00:04:43
>> Um, yeah. It's like I was saying to you
00:04:45
before, these podcasts, I feel like it's
00:04:46
like the greatest the greatest hits and
00:04:48
the greatest shits of someone's life.
00:04:49
Like the good and the good and the bad.
00:04:51
Um, cuz I think we're all flawed human
00:04:53
beings in a way, aren't we? Everyone's
00:04:55
got some [ __ ] Um, but yeah. Yeah.
00:04:58
What's it like? like sitting in front of
00:04:59
me now as a a man in his 50s to be like
00:05:02
the the villain in so many other
00:05:04
people's stories.
00:05:06
You know what I mean?
00:05:08
>> 100%. I think um I I I don't need to um
00:05:13
you know there's there's there's been a
00:05:15
few people that have actually um had an
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agenda out for me, you know, and and uh
00:05:19
over the years and
00:05:21
>> and ex partners or whatever. I'm not I'm
00:05:23
not going to get and point the finger
00:05:24
and name names or anything like there's
00:05:25
no point, you know, it's in the past.
00:05:27
But uh but yeah, I I didn't do myself
00:05:29
any favors at times storm, so I left
00:05:32
myself up there for really cool and uh
00:05:34
and I got it.
00:05:36
>> Yeah. Yeah. There's a quote from you
00:05:38
that I read in an article. Um I believe
00:05:40
what goes around comes around. If you're
00:05:41
a good person, things will happen for
00:05:43
you. Are are you a good person?
00:05:44
>> Yeah, I think so. I u you know, I'm on a
00:05:47
sickness benefit now because of my
00:05:48
health. Um I had a heart attack just
00:05:51
over 18 months ago and actually died and
00:05:54
was dead physically
00:05:57
dead for 29 minutes.
00:05:59
>> Uh I was with a client and I actually
00:06:01
had brought us lunch. We at his house uh
00:06:03
one of my special needs boys and uh I
00:06:06
collapsed and woke up u well the
00:06:08
paramedics came. They came like 25
00:06:10
minutes later revived me took me to
00:06:12
hospital. Uh, I flatlined four times
00:06:16
when I was in hospital and I woke up 5
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weeks later. I I was in a coma for
00:06:20
nearly 5 weeks. Had to learn how to walk
00:06:23
and and and uh, you know, use cutlery
00:06:27
again and all of this stuff. And um, in
00:06:30
a way,
00:06:33
as I said, you know, you've just drawn
00:06:36
attention to, I believe in karma, what
00:06:38
goes wrong comes wrong. I um I've I've
00:06:41
gone through some tough times in life,
00:06:43
you know, and it sort of grounded me at
00:06:45
times. I also broke my neck in a car
00:06:47
crash and got told I'd never walk again.
00:06:50
This was when I was playing over in
00:06:51
South Africa.
00:06:52
>> Um you know, and at the moment I'm just
00:06:55
just Yeah, just finally sort of slowed
00:06:58
down a bit, I think.
00:07:00
>> Age. Yeah. No one no one defeats time,
00:07:02
right?
00:07:03
>> No. No.
00:07:04
>> I'll tell you what, there's there's a
00:07:05
lot to unpack. Uh yeah, the the Yeah.
00:07:08
the car crash in South Africa, the heart
00:07:10
attack, um the bad press, and we we'll
00:07:13
get through everything, but
00:07:14
>> I thought we'll start with um start with
00:07:16
the um how you got a name for yourself.
00:07:18
So, uh you're a footballer, you're a
00:07:20
goalkeeper.
00:07:21
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:07:22
>> Explain that role.
00:07:24
>> Okay. Um being a goalkeeper in New
00:07:26
Zealand is is is quite a uh unenviable
00:07:30
position to be in because
00:07:31
>> worst position in that team. I don't
00:07:33
know why anyone no one no one no one
00:07:35
gets into playing football with the
00:07:36
dream of being a goalie, right? No, you
00:07:38
want to score goals, mate. But I was
00:07:39
just I couldn't put the ball in the net,
00:07:41
so I tried to keep it out of it, you
00:07:42
know. But I I uh played a lot of
00:07:44
cricket, volleyball, uh and I was always
00:07:47
good in the slips, you know, with my and
00:07:48
I did wicket keeping and opened the bat
00:07:50
at Wangatai College and Ian Smith, you
00:07:53
know, the cricket legend,
00:07:54
>> he was a Rangai boy, Bruce Sega, another
00:07:57
boy, Winton Refer, Shane Rafer. Uh a lot
00:08:00
of good uh sports people went to that
00:08:03
school and uh and I've kept in touch
00:08:04
with a lot of these people as well, you
00:08:06
And um I went in goal basically because
00:08:08
I didn't want to run around like the
00:08:10
outfield players have to do. And so uh
00:08:12
maybe trainings would be a bit easier
00:08:14
for me. But but I actually found that
00:08:15
goalkeepers train harder than anyone
00:08:17
else. You know, you do do a lot of
00:08:18
plyometrics, a lot of power work and u
00:08:21
and and it can be a thankless task as
00:08:24
well. You know, you can go for 89
00:08:26
minutes and have nothing to do and then
00:08:28
you're called to do something. If you
00:08:29
don't do it well, u you know, people are
00:08:32
putting pointing the finger at you, you
00:08:33
know. So it's uh but I like that. I like
00:08:35
that.
00:08:36
>> Yeah. I can't imagine the weight of
00:08:37
responsibility like Yeah. How how does
00:08:39
it feel when your team loses because
00:08:40
you've let a goal in? Obviously, it's
00:08:42
the team sports and the teams sort of
00:08:43
rally around and they don't hold you
00:08:45
accountable or responsible, but do you
00:08:47
hold yourself accountable and
00:08:48
responsible when that happens?
00:08:49
>> I think it's a mental approach you take
00:08:51
into a game where you you understand
00:08:53
that that's just part and parcel for it.
00:08:55
Um, you will make mistakes. Everyone
00:08:57
makes mistakes. I was I was quite
00:08:59
fortunate. I uh it's quite funny. Yeah,
00:09:03
I I I when I came when I came back to
00:09:05
New Zealand, played for the Kings, it
00:09:06
was and they were the first New Zealand
00:09:07
professional football team and playing
00:09:09
in the Australian league and uh and I
00:09:11
played in the first game and um but I
00:09:14
remember you know a few games into the
00:09:15
season. Uh we had another goalkeeper
00:09:18
there who thought he was it, you know,
00:09:19
and I was the, you know, the number one
00:09:21
for the Kiwis as well and and this guy
00:09:24
was talking it up and I won't name
00:09:25
names, but I mean he was giving it
00:09:27
large, you know, and saying that he
00:09:28
should be given a chance and I pulled my
00:09:31
calf muscle uh warming up before we
00:09:33
played Sydney Olympic at Ericson Stadium
00:09:35
one night and it was an awful night. It
00:09:37
was rainy and it was wet and windy and
00:09:40
so I couldn't play and and this guy
00:09:42
played and it was the worst conditions
00:09:43
to make your debut and he and let
00:09:45
through three and we lost 3-2 in the
00:09:47
last kick of the game and and that was
00:09:48
one of those like getting back to you
00:09:50
know bad situations. So it sort of put
00:09:52
him on the back of back burner and as
00:09:55
soon as I was ready to go back in the
00:09:56
game the coach brought me in but uh I
00:09:58
think uh
00:09:59
>> yeah goalkeeping is a confidence thing.
00:10:01
you know, if you go in there with
00:10:02
confidence and uh do your job, you you
00:10:05
generally do okay, mate.
00:10:07
>> So, was it like a red red hot burning
00:10:09
desire to play for the all whites or
00:10:10
were you just like a natural talent and
00:10:12
it just sort of fell into place or
00:10:13
>> I I never thought that I don't know
00:10:16
whether Do you remember the shoot
00:10:17
magazines, the football magazines or
00:10:19
football monthly? Well, these were
00:10:21
English uh monthly magazines for the
00:10:24
football. They used to come out and
00:10:26
they'd get to New Zealand through the
00:10:27
through the uh you know through the ship
00:10:30
post about six months later and we used
00:10:31
to collect them as kids and in the
00:10:33
middle they used to have this you know
00:10:34
the center was a uh was a team a team
00:10:37
lineup each well a team photo each week
00:10:39
and I was a big Man United supporter so
00:10:41
uh you know I hope there's not too many
00:10:43
people who hate Man United out there but
00:10:44
there seems to be at the moment. Um but
00:10:46
I um I just started playing in the
00:10:50
street. I never thought I'd ever achieve
00:10:52
anything other than having fun with my
00:10:55
mates. It was a way to, you know, just
00:10:58
to uh to learn how to learn how to live
00:11:01
with other people. M um and um I never
00:11:05
had visions of grand jur playing at any
00:11:08
high level, you know, and uh I remember
00:11:10
when I was playing in the Wellington Rep
00:11:12
and about the under nines, under tens,
00:11:15
Dom, and
00:11:16
>> we went and played a game at the basin
00:11:18
reserve and a young Winton roofer was
00:11:20
playing for Murma in the National League
00:11:22
and he was probably only 18 years old
00:11:24
and it was before he hit the limelight
00:11:26
with the all whites of 82 and that and
00:11:28
and I looked at this guy and he was
00:11:29
amazing. And I looked at the
00:11:30
goalkeepers. Wayne Nichols was a
00:11:32
goalkeeper there. Miramar legend and and
00:11:34
also a softball legend. Played softball
00:11:36
for New Zealand. He took me under under
00:11:38
his wing. He coached our first 11 team
00:11:40
at Rangai College. Got me involved and
00:11:42
then he got me along to uh to Morama
00:11:45
trainings on a Tuesday and a Thursday
00:11:47
afternoon or evening and I just I just
00:11:49
developed a love for it. I also had
00:11:52
nothing else in my life mate to be
00:11:53
honest with you. I didn't have uh money.
00:11:56
I didn't have wealth. We didn't have a a
00:11:59
lot going on at home. So, uh it was
00:12:01
something to keep me fit, keep me
00:12:03
active, and uh a socializing aspect as
00:12:05
well. Later in life, obviously too much
00:12:07
of the socializing aspect possibly, but
00:12:10
uh but it was just a really nice way to,
00:12:12
you know, get to meet people and then
00:12:14
later on see the world. So, yeah.
00:12:15
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Seeing the
00:12:17
world. Um by the way, you mentioned
00:12:19
Wellington there. You you um were
00:12:21
inducted into the Wellington Hall of
00:12:23
Fame, uh Football Hall of Fame 2017.
00:12:25
>> Yeah.
00:12:26
That's pretty cool.
00:12:27
>> Amazing. I mean, I um yeah, I'm just
00:12:30
very flattered. I um
00:12:32
>> I I was very And I'd love to just draw
00:12:35
reference to the family, the Chot, the
00:12:37
David, Mark, Matthew, and uh Peter Chot.
00:12:42
They were still at the Miramar Rangers
00:12:45
Club and that's my Wellington club. And
00:12:47
um it's the only time I played for
00:12:48
Wellington or would have um and their
00:12:51
mom and dad, Judy and Ian, used to run
00:12:53
the club basically. they were on the
00:12:55
committee and Jude used to look after
00:12:56
the four boys and I asked Jude to come
00:12:59
with me to the induction of Wellington
00:13:01
Hall of uh you know football hall of
00:13:03
fame but she was she wasn't able to you
00:13:05
know because of her health but uh that
00:13:08
was probably one of my most um proudest
00:13:10
moments
00:13:11
>> cuz I had people friends and you know
00:13:13
the football fraternity were there and
00:13:16
uh and it was sort of a celebration of
00:13:18
what I'd achieved and I'm I'm flattered
00:13:22
to be in that you know to be in that
00:13:23
with the likes of the Winon Roofers and
00:13:26
Grant Turners. Vaughn Coven and I used
00:13:29
to knock around as as teenagers, mate.
00:13:31
And uh
00:13:32
>> he he he he ended up I think before
00:13:35
Shane Smeltz broke his record. He was
00:13:37
the highest goal scorer for the whites
00:13:39
for a number of years and and we were
00:13:41
just two bloss bucks each in our pocket
00:13:44
on a Thursday night and go down to arena
00:13:46
with Ray John's and get on it and uh
00:13:49
>> and and and play football on the
00:13:51
weekend. That was our life. We just
00:13:53
loved it. That's we we lived like we
00:13:55
were professional footballers. Uh I
00:13:57
wouldn't say in the way we acted all the
00:13:59
time but but football was our everything
00:14:02
and uh and you sort of need that um you
00:14:06
need that focus a lot of people and I
00:14:08
remember talking to Declan Edge who is a
00:14:10
very good ex New Zealand all whites
00:14:12
coach uh sorry player and national
00:14:14
league coach and he's coaching overseas
00:14:16
now and he said to me um you know did do
00:14:19
you ever have a backup did you have a
00:14:21
backup plan if the football didn't go
00:14:23
well and I said no I never did. And he
00:14:26
goes, "Well, no footballer does, mate."
00:14:28
You know, it's everything or nothing,
00:14:30
isn't it? You know,
00:14:31
>> uh cuz if you do have a backup plan sort
00:14:33
of thing, well, you've got to you've got
00:14:34
to get out and uh claws, you know, and
00:14:38
uh and footballers are so
00:14:41
>> Oh, you've got to be competitive because
00:14:42
it's a small market
00:14:44
>> and and and if you look at the players
00:14:46
in, you know, who are playing at the top
00:14:47
leagues in the world, they're getting
00:14:49
paid quite handsomely,
00:14:51
>> but they've uh they've earned it, you
00:14:53
know, they've worked hard for it, you
00:14:54
know.
00:14:55
>> Yeah. Did you did you earn all right?
00:14:57
>> I made good money when I was when I was
00:15:00
in South Africa. I I played a season in
00:15:03
Australia before went over to South
00:15:04
Africa and what had happened Ian
00:15:06
Marshall, rest in peace, he he was ex
00:15:08
New Zealand coach uh with your whites,
00:15:10
he uh he had received a call from a
00:15:13
state club in Melbourne and they'd been
00:15:15
looking for a goalkeeper and I was in
00:15:17
New Zealand under 23 goalkeeper. I think
00:15:19
I was 21 or 20 at the time and he said,
00:15:21
"Would you like to go away to Melbourne
00:15:23
and play for his team called Sunshine
00:15:24
George Cross?" Maltes, absolute nutters.
00:15:28
They used to fire flares across the
00:15:29
pitch. I used to love it. I was in my
00:15:31
element, you know, but they were
00:15:32
absolutely crazy. And and the and the
00:15:35
club, they would have two or three
00:15:37
thousand to a game and the supporters
00:15:40
would be fanatical. It was like, you
00:15:42
know, this is in Melbourne. It's like we
00:15:43
used to call it [ __ ] Ball over there. So
00:15:45
all the ethnic communities, the Greeks,
00:15:46
the Italians, Yuguslavas, Croatians,
00:15:49
they all had their club and it was a
00:15:52
whole identity with the community as
00:15:54
well. And people would donate money to
00:15:56
the club and they'd spend their weekends
00:15:58
there. And I got involved with, you
00:16:00
know, this the Sunshine George cross
00:16:02
team, which that's Maltise. And and I
00:16:05
lived there with an old guy in his house
00:16:06
and, you know, did the six weeks. We got
00:16:08
into the playoffs, end up losing the
00:16:10
semi-final, but I was in love with
00:16:12
Australian football cuz it was a step up
00:16:13
from New Zealand stuff, you know, and uh
00:16:16
and then I went and played um I signed
00:16:18
for for Melbourne or Melbourne Victory
00:16:20
as they're called now, but they were
00:16:22
called South Melbourne, the Greeks. and
00:16:23
I couldn't get a game because I had a
00:16:25
Greek goalkeeper in goal and his father
00:16:26
was one of the sponsors and uh well
00:16:29
that's my excuse anyway but uh but I u
00:16:32
he got he actually got sent off in a
00:16:34
game and u so I had three games to sort
00:16:36
of prove myself and we won all three I
00:16:38
concealed one goal but as soon as the
00:16:40
guy was over a suspension I got dropped
00:16:42
again so at the end of that season uh
00:16:45
they wanted me to come back and sign for
00:16:47
another year and they owed me quite a
00:16:49
bit of money about $40,000
00:16:52
>> um and I said, um, I'm not going to sign
00:16:56
for you unless you pay me my money.
00:16:58
That's owed to me, you know. And, um,
00:17:00
and I shouldn't probably say this, but,
00:17:03
uh, a lot of these clubs have one books
00:17:05
for the for the accountants and another
00:17:08
books which they keep sort of, you know,
00:17:11
>> oh, like a salary cap thing. Okay.
00:17:13
>> So, there's I think that's quite common
00:17:15
in the in the NRL as well.
00:17:16
>> M, it used to be huge.
00:17:17
>> Maybe not so much anymore.
00:17:18
>> No, no, not anymore. But don back in
00:17:20
those days it was there were a lot of
00:17:22
backhanders and people getting you know
00:17:24
we have a have a sponsor that's a car or
00:17:26
something you get a free car that's and
00:17:29
everything's got to be extremely down
00:17:30
the line now but uh but I uh yeah so I
00:17:34
end up you know going I I'd finished a
00:17:36
season they owed me money they weren't
00:17:37
going to pay it to me unless I signed
00:17:38
another contract. So, I went and
00:17:40
visited. I flew over to South Africa. I
00:17:42
I had $800, I think, and and uh to my
00:17:46
name and had a couple of bags of clothes
00:17:48
and I took my football gear and I went
00:17:49
over to visit my father who lives in
00:17:51
Durban. He's a Kiwi, but he lives over
00:17:53
in South Africa and uh flew over there
00:17:55
and u trained for his unit. He's a
00:17:57
professor in civil engineering and
00:17:59
university of Natal. So, uh lived with
00:18:02
my dad and in Durban was wonderful. I
00:18:04
love South Africa and trained with the
00:18:07
uh university team. They have a team in
00:18:08
the second division over there. Um, and
00:18:11
after two days, I got a call from a club
00:18:14
called Ptoria City that's actually uh
00:18:18
owned by Emnet Super Sport. Uh, so big
00:18:21
sponsor. It's a new new club. Excuse me.
00:18:24
And they uh wanted to sign me. So I
00:18:27
thought, well,
00:18:29
you have to sort out this. I'm still on
00:18:30
the books at this club in Melbourne in
00:18:32
Australia. So I had an agent called
00:18:35
Peter Alfahaida. uh German guy and uh he
00:18:39
jumped on a plane with about $170,000
00:18:43
cash on him and he went and paid a uh a
00:18:47
transfer fee to me for me in Melbourne,
00:18:50
got my clearance and then I ended up
00:18:52
spending about nine years in South
00:18:54
Africa
00:18:56
>> and uh
00:18:56
>> Wow. Yeah. I I didn't I didn't realize
00:18:58
your dad was in South Africa. That makes
00:19:00
makes so much more sense how you ended
00:19:01
up over there now. Yeah. What about um
00:19:04
culture shocks or standout memories from
00:19:06
playing in EA?
00:19:07
>> I loved it. I live in South Africa. I um
00:19:09
>> I've never been there. Everyone goes on
00:19:11
about how dangerous it is and how you're
00:19:12
likely to get carjacked at an
00:19:14
intersection.
00:19:15
>> No. No. That's [ __ ] mate. I mean,
00:19:17
it's
00:19:17
>> like any place you can find trouble if
00:19:18
you want.
00:19:19
>> Find it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I mean I I
00:19:21
often used to go out and uh when I went
00:19:23
out with people from the club would you
00:19:25
know go out with dignitaries from the
00:19:26
club and they'd be packing heat you know
00:19:28
carrying guns with them and we'd go to
00:19:31
nightclubs and you you'd walk into the
00:19:33
nightclub and on the left hand side of
00:19:34
the door there's a lovely lady in a
00:19:36
kiosk and u takes your jackets and and
00:19:40
ask you to come into the weapon room if
00:19:41
you've got a gun and hand in your gun
00:19:44
>> like a cloak room. Yeah, it's exactly
00:19:46
what it is. But it was a big walk-in
00:19:47
safe. And I used to go to these places
00:19:49
and I had a lot of mates who, you know,
00:19:50
own clubs and that and rang managed
00:19:52
clubs. And I used to go on and uh go
00:19:55
into the game into the gun rooms or the
00:19:58
safes and I was a m you'd see sorn off
00:20:01
shotguns and machetes and little hand
00:20:05
pistols. And I'm thinking, mate, it's
00:20:07
like it's something from a 1930s old
00:20:09
Capone movie or something. But that's
00:20:11
how people lived in South Africa. Well,
00:20:14
well, that that sounds pretty unsafe to
00:20:16
me.
00:20:16
>> Yeah. No, it is. It is. But I mean, it's
00:20:20
um you know, you sort of get accustomed
00:20:23
to it, you know, you get you get used to
00:20:25
I mean,
00:20:26
>> you know, you all your windows have
00:20:28
burglar bars on them and there's razor
00:20:30
wire around your property, you know,
00:20:31
boundaries and that and u most people
00:20:33
have a couple of big dogs. We My dad had
00:20:36
these three beautiful tanned Great Danes
00:20:38
and they were huge. And remember one
00:20:40
night I went to the local bar and walked
00:20:42
home and it was you know after midnight
00:20:44
so dad had locked the gates and
00:20:46
everything and I couldn't get through
00:20:47
the gate. I was legless. So, I I fell
00:20:50
asleep on the driveway and uh and uh in
00:20:54
the morning I woke up at 6:30 in the
00:20:56
morning and all these people walking,
00:20:58
you know, past the, you know, the house,
00:20:59
the driveway to to work and I had three
00:21:02
great Danes that had jumped the fence
00:21:05
and were lying sleeping with their heads
00:21:06
on my chest and over my waist sort of
00:21:09
thing looking after me and I felt felt
00:21:12
like great.
00:21:14
>> But, uh yeah, probably a bit of a loose
00:21:15
unit there, mate. So, doing things I
00:21:17
probably shouldn't have been doing.
00:21:18
Yeah.
00:21:18
>> So yeah, it was um 1995 in South Africa
00:21:21
where you broke your neck in a car
00:21:22
crash. Yeah. Yeah. What was the story
00:21:23
with that? What happened there?
00:21:24
>> I um on a Thursday night we uh we'd had
00:21:27
training that morning and um we had a
00:21:29
big game against Kaiser Chiefs. You
00:21:31
know, Kaiser Chiefs and Orlando Pirates
00:21:32
are the are the biggest supported clubs
00:21:34
in Africa or in South Africa.
00:21:36
>> And uh so we were playing Chiefs, big
00:21:38
game live on TV uh on the on the
00:21:41
Saturday, Thursday night uh Saturday,
00:21:44
Sunday. We were playing Thursday night.
00:21:46
Uh I was invited to a uh back in those
00:21:49
days, Don, because of my lifestyle, the
00:21:53
free time I had was often spent in bars
00:21:56
drinking beer,
00:21:58
>> uh because that's what I enjoyed doing
00:21:59
at the time. And and you know, and and
00:22:01
and it was fun. So, a met of mine, Jose
00:22:05
Olivera, Portuguese lad. He ran a
00:22:09
cantina fiesta, which is a Mexican
00:22:11
Portuguese type themed restaurant bar.
00:22:14
And um on the Thursday night, he's he's
00:22:17
funny. I was actually best man at his
00:22:18
wedding. He and Zola um his his his
00:22:22
fiance at the time. Uh I was they
00:22:25
invited me to the wedding as best man.
00:22:26
But um we uh on the Thursday night I got
00:22:30
a call at about HA state and they said
00:22:32
look you know you've got to come down
00:22:33
cuz they were moving to Durban from
00:22:35
Ptoria to Durban and they said you've
00:22:37
got to come down have a couple of drinks
00:22:38
and I said mate I've got a huge game
00:22:39
this weekend I can't it's two days out
00:22:41
and they said okay no worries and then
00:22:44
15 minutes later there's a knock on my
00:22:45
door and there's four of my mates from
00:22:47
the bar and uh basically kidnapped me
00:22:50
and took me back there got on the on the
00:22:53
drink you know and and and and I'm an
00:22:55
alcoholic so It's uh pretty easy for me
00:22:58
to, you know, to for them to twist my
00:22:59
arm. So, I was always a all or nothing
00:23:02
sort of thing. I could I could go
00:23:04
without alcohol, which I, you know, I
00:23:05
haven't had a drink for just on a year
00:23:07
now. I don't drink. Um, and you know,
00:23:09
but today I don't drink. Tomorrow I hope
00:23:12
not to as well, but it's about, you
00:23:13
know, it's just on a year now that I
00:23:15
haven't had a drink. Um, but I uh got
00:23:17
down there with the guys, got on it. And
00:23:20
then uh decided because you do stupid
00:23:23
things when you're having a few that
00:23:24
we'd go to uh uh Sun City which was you
00:23:29
know an hour drive away. So well you
00:23:32
wouldn't know that but yeah it's an hour
00:23:33
drive away. So we got in the car to
00:23:35
drive to Sun City. I was a passenger in
00:23:37
a car in the car. Um woke up the next
00:23:40
day in hospital and we we had missed a
00:23:43
turn off to a petrol station and rolled
00:23:45
the car apparently five times down a
00:23:48
bank. woke up in sort of like of a
00:23:50
swamp. Um, luckily uh I I'd cracked my
00:23:54
skull. I had 47 stitches in my head. Uh,
00:23:57
but if I hadn't have cracked my skull
00:23:59
that the swelling on my brain, uh, would
00:24:01
have made me brain dead, uh, because of
00:24:04
the, you know, because of the swelling.
00:24:05
But because I cracked my skull, it was
00:24:07
able to, you know, to push it out out
00:24:09
and swell without sort of long-term
00:24:11
injuries. Um, they took some bone out of
00:24:14
my hip, put it on my neck. I broke my
00:24:16
neck put I had a fusion of the fifth and
00:24:18
sixth vertebrae. Uh lost 80% of the
00:24:21
hearing in my left ear.
00:24:23
Uh and just yeah just my father when he
00:24:27
came up from Durban to you know see me
00:24:29
in hospital he couldn't he couldn't
00:24:31
recognize me. Um so I uh I did it
00:24:35
properly mate. Yeah. And uh I got told
00:24:37
I'd never walk again but I ended up
00:24:40
walking about I think it was 12 weeks
00:24:43
later. determined,
00:24:45
>> bit of a determined guy at times, mate,
00:24:47
and uh and driven. And I just decided,
00:24:50
you know, I wasn't happy with my life
00:24:51
anyway. Um although I was getting paid
00:24:54
good money to play a professional game,
00:24:56
which I love doing, I wasn't happy
00:24:57
because I just wasn't happy, you know,
00:24:59
and and I was doing things like drinking
00:25:01
excessively and that um womanizing, you
00:25:05
know, I wasn't in a relationship. I was
00:25:06
never really in a good relationship
00:25:07
because I was just a dick looking after
00:25:09
himself. But I uh
00:25:13
how can I put it? I uh I actually
00:25:15
thought at the time that was probably
00:25:17
the best thing that could have happened
00:25:18
to me because it sort of made me sort of
00:25:20
slow down and you know look at where I'm
00:25:22
at. And um
00:25:24
>> and I I I kept a diary I after after
00:25:29
this after I started walking again and I
00:25:32
had nothing. And I ended up sleeping on
00:25:35
a mate's couch and u he is a mate of
00:25:38
mine who who uh I met you know he had
00:25:41
never known me as a footballer but uh we
00:25:44
used to talk about football. He's a man
00:25:45
United supporter. We used to have hours
00:25:47
of conversation about the game and and I
00:25:49
used to tell him that when I used to
00:25:50
play this and that and he thought I was
00:25:51
full of [ __ ] you know and anyway we
00:25:54
decided to get fit and uh we got fit
00:25:56
together. Uh I lived in a house with I
00:25:59
moved into a house with uh he or him and
00:26:02
his and his wife. His wife's from
00:26:04
Swaziland Togo a black lady and she's
00:26:07
just beautiful beautiful and Nuku that
00:26:11
was her sister and they had a she Nuku
00:26:14
had a child 5-year-old boy called
00:26:16
Wandeli little black dude and uh used to
00:26:19
take him to school in the mornings and
00:26:21
you know pick him up from school
00:26:22
afterwards and uh and and I became part
00:26:26
of their family and Kevin and I got fit
00:26:28
and I used to get him you know getting
00:26:30
him into the gym and do running. he was
00:26:31
a big boy and um we decided to start
00:26:35
kicking a soccer ball. So we'd go into
00:26:37
the park and we'd, you know, if you got
00:26:38
a soccer ball in South Africa, you've
00:26:40
always got to have a game because
00:26:41
everyone wants to play, you know, and
00:26:42
>> so I ended up having to kick around and
00:26:44
got super fit and I thought, wow, I'm
00:26:47
not doing anything with my life, but
00:26:48
I've got a plate in my neck with four
00:26:50
screws.
00:26:51
>> Is any chance of me playing any sort of
00:26:53
football at any level? And I went back
00:26:55
to see my neurosurgeon, an African lady
00:26:58
in Ptoria, and she said, "Look, I'm I'm
00:27:00
shocked with how fit you are." I was
00:27:02
super fit. I had a body fat percentage
00:27:04
of 4% and I was really cut and just as
00:27:07
the fittest I'd ever been in my life and
00:27:09
so I started training again and um and I
00:27:12
went back to my old club Super Sport
00:27:13
United and I said can I train with you
00:27:15
guys and the coach there said yeah look
00:27:17
we've got the national goalkeeper for
00:27:19
South Africa we've got one of the under
00:27:21
23 first oh sorry we've got the under23
00:27:23
goalkeeper South Africa and we've got a
00:27:25
couple of other guys on our books one
00:27:27
Perry Suckling who used to play for
00:27:29
Crystal Palace in England who's sort of
00:27:30
a player coach so we've got our quote of
00:27:32
goalkeepers, but you're more than
00:27:33
welcome to come along, Michael, and and
00:27:35
spend some time with the boys and be
00:27:37
good to see you and and and and get what
00:27:39
you can out of it. So, so I went and
00:27:41
trained with Super Sport and it's funny,
00:27:43
Tom, how things have a way of working
00:27:44
themselves out, you know, and like we
00:27:46
talked earlier about the karma, you
00:27:47
know, what goes around comes around and
00:27:50
so I trained with these guys for about
00:27:51
four weeks. I was killing it. I was on I
00:27:53
was the fittest in the club and and
00:27:55
that's from with the outfield play as
00:27:58
well. I could run all day. Um anyway,
00:28:01
they played a game one night and I
00:28:03
watched it on a Wednesday night. The
00:28:04
goalkeeper got sent off, the guy that
00:28:06
came on got injured. So, so the next
00:28:09
week they had a young guy in goal. Um
00:28:14
and on the Thursday,
00:28:16
uh so they basically only had one
00:28:18
goalkeeper and and and and on the
00:28:20
Thursday he got injured. So they said,
00:28:22
"Well, look, we'll give the Kiwi a go."
00:28:24
So they they signed me up um on a week-
00:28:27
toeek contract. So basically as soon as
00:28:29
the goalkeepers are back they're going
00:28:31
to give me the flick you know. So so I
00:28:33
knew that and I said to myself and you
00:28:35
know the people I living with my you
00:28:36
know my family they used to come and
00:28:37
watch me and sit in the players lounge
00:28:40
you know it's Nuku Togo and Kevin and
00:28:42
Weli and uh and I said to them guys I
00:28:46
get a thousand bucks a week if I play
00:28:48
and then we get bonuses for winning.
00:28:51
If I don't do well they've got an excuse
00:28:54
to to get rid of me. So I've got to play
00:28:56
like a king. So I've got I played 17
00:28:59
games for them and uh and got nine man
00:29:02
in the matches. Uh so I played the best
00:29:04
football I've ever played. Ken Dougal,
00:29:06
who was the New Zealand coach at the
00:29:07
time, he flew over to see me and it was
00:29:10
you how it all works out and and he and
00:29:12
he pulled me into the uh Confederation's
00:29:14
Cup squad in in 1999.
00:29:17
Uh took me away to Mexico. So Support
00:29:20
ended up signing me in a long-term Oh,
00:29:22
no, no, no, no, no. I went overseas with
00:29:24
the New Zealand AllWH whites to Mexico
00:29:25
and starred for the AllWhites. Played as
00:29:27
the number one goalkeeper playing
00:29:29
against Brazil and stuff and and I
00:29:31
remember in the change room remember
00:29:32
before the Brazil game we're underneath
00:29:34
the ground and you could hear this whoa
00:29:38
and it was uh
00:29:40
it was the Germany USA game. It was Al
00:29:43
Cuden Razer. You know I'm thinking
00:29:45
Germany USA this is huge. And and we're
00:29:47
coming out to play against Brazil and we
00:29:49
have our team talking. Ken Dougdell sort
00:29:51
of said, you know, would anyone like to
00:29:52
say anything? And Michael, obviously
00:29:54
what you've been through with breaking
00:29:56
your neck and you know, and you know,
00:29:58
how how are your how are you how's your
00:30:00
head? Uh because you know that there's
00:30:02
like 70 80,000 people out there. You're
00:30:05
going to be busy, mate. We're playing
00:30:06
the best team in the world. We're ranked
00:30:08
101st of their first. So, how do you
00:30:11
feel? I said, are you guys [ __ ]
00:30:13
serious? Sorry about the language.
00:30:15
>> No, it's all right. It's podcast. I
00:30:16
said, uh, I said, uh, six months ago, I
00:30:19
caught a soccer ball for the first time
00:30:21
in two years after being told I'd never
00:30:23
walk, never play football again. And now
00:30:26
I'm about to line up with the national
00:30:28
anthem of New Zealand with my mates and
00:30:31
I'm about to play against Ronaldinho and
00:30:33
the Brazilian national team in Mexico in
00:30:35
front of 70,000 people. Just if we score
00:30:38
a goal, we'll win.
00:30:39
>> Yeah.
00:30:40
>> I said, cuz they're not going to score.
00:30:41
You know, they ended up beating us 2-0,
00:30:43
but it was it was no discredit. It's not
00:30:46
a bad group. It's
00:30:46
>> not disgraceful, is it?
00:30:47
>> No, it isn't. It isn't. And
00:30:48
>> was that was that your first time for
00:30:49
the AllHites?
00:30:50
>> No. No. I'd played for the AllHites
00:30:51
earlier. Uh but I'd never played at the
00:30:53
level that I was playing now because I'd
00:30:55
never had it taken away from me and
00:30:58
>> you know, you know, you know what I
00:30:59
mean? When you've got something and you
00:31:00
lose,
00:31:00
>> I think it's lost forever.
00:31:02
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I I did that. Did played
00:31:04
well there. And then uh at the end of
00:31:06
the tournament, I came back to New
00:31:07
Zealand. you know, spent some time with
00:31:09
family and friends and my mom down in
00:31:11
and and in in she's in Grey Town now,
00:31:14
but she was in uh in Why Can I So, she
00:31:16
was pretty happy with me at the time.
00:31:17
I've been doing some good for change, so
00:31:19
which was nice. And uh and then do you
00:31:22
know, have you heard of a guy called
00:31:23
Bruce Groar?
00:31:24
>> No.
00:31:25
>> Well, he used to be the Liverpool
00:31:26
goalkeeper in the 80s when Liverpool
00:31:28
were the best. They were the best. They
00:31:30
were like the Manchester United of the
00:31:31
of the ' 90s. and he played for
00:31:33
Liverpool when they won European Cups
00:31:35
and he played for Zimbabwe and and uh he
00:31:38
was a goalkeeper and he he uh was
00:31:39
coaching in South Africa and he phoned
00:31:43
me up and asked me if I'd like to go
00:31:44
back to South Africa and play. So and he
00:31:47
had just taken over the position at my
00:31:48
old club. So, uh, after being sort of
00:31:52
mucked around with them a bit, cuz when
00:31:54
I broke my neck, I was meant to get paid
00:31:57
5 million US or 5 million Kiwi dollars
00:32:01
as my insurance payout, but there was
00:32:03
some discrepancy and it wasn't the
00:32:05
injury wasn't done on the field. So,
00:32:07
they didn't pay it out. So, I was left
00:32:10
with nothing and the club sort of
00:32:12
stitched me up. So, when they asked to
00:32:15
sign me again, you know, I I said,
00:32:18
"Look, yeah, okay, I'll do that." But uh
00:32:20
I made them you my agent made them pay
00:32:22
me you know quite handsomely.
00:32:25
>> Um I played played for Super Sport
00:32:27
United and won the uh
00:32:30
won the goalkeeper of the year in the in
00:32:32
the league and uh won the FA Cup or the
00:32:35
the Bob Super Bowl against Kaiser Cheese
00:32:37
in front of 100,000 people and got man
00:32:39
of the match in that and uh and just
00:32:42
things just started flying for me. you
00:32:43
know, I was just really uh appreciative
00:32:46
of being able to have another go at life
00:32:47
and uh and and play football.
00:32:50
>> Yeah. Um Yeah. At your pick, how good do
00:32:54
you think you could have been if
00:32:55
everything had gone right? Like you
00:32:57
mentioned before, man, you like could
00:32:59
could you have could you have like been
00:33:01
earning huge money in the UK if you
00:33:03
>> Yeah. I do I'm probably uh and thinking
00:33:07
back now if I you know the old scenario
00:33:09
if you if you knew then what you know
00:33:11
now, you know, where would you be? Yeah,
00:33:14
I uh I I was fortunate to when I went to
00:33:18
South Africa to train with a guy called
00:33:19
Gary Bailey who who works for Super
00:33:21
Sport. He owns he runs and owns a uh a
00:33:25
football show. He covers all the English
00:33:27
footballs. He's like huge over there and
00:33:29
and he used to play for Manchester
00:33:30
United who's a goalkeeper there. And
00:33:32
>> funny how he was my hero when I was a
00:33:35
kid growing up, you know. And and then
00:33:36
Bruce Grubel, the Liverpool keeper, was
00:33:38
another one of my heroes and he he
00:33:40
signed me. you know, these guys were the
00:33:43
best in the world playing my position.
00:33:46
And um and they told me, you know, you
00:33:49
should have been playing in the Premier
00:33:51
League. You know, I'm just making that
00:33:53
up. They I I never had a mentor. I never
00:33:56
had anyone to a father figure in my life
00:33:59
to to guide me. And I suppose that's why
00:34:01
I went off the rails so many times and
00:34:05
because I never had someone pulling me
00:34:06
in. I never had the accountability. I
00:34:08
never had any sort of u
00:34:11
uh just that guidance that grounding
00:34:15
>> and I think if I had have had that I
00:34:18
would have definitely achieved a lot
00:34:20
more because at the end of the day I was
00:34:22
I was watching these guys on TV remember
00:34:24
buying the shooting football monthly
00:34:26
magazines and you know swapping
00:34:28
magazines centerfolds you know football
00:34:30
team strip you know photos with my mates
00:34:34
that was it for me I didn't think it got
00:34:36
any better than that you know but when
00:34:38
when I went overseas and played against,
00:34:40
you know, the best players in the world,
00:34:43
I actually realized, you know,
00:34:46
it's not much difference if you if you
00:34:48
rate yourself and you put yourself out
00:34:50
there, you know, and we come from a
00:34:52
little place in the South Pacific, but
00:34:54
>> you know, we sort of
00:34:57
we we sort of box above our weight,
00:34:59
don't we, at times, Kiwis? And when I
00:35:01
got that opportunity, when I finished
00:35:03
playing football, when I when I got
00:35:05
older and cuz when I was younger,
00:35:08
playing the game was never really my
00:35:10
highlight. It was more training because
00:35:12
being a goalkeeper, you go on the field
00:35:14
and if you make a mistake, you you're in
00:35:16
the [ __ ] So, I used to really look
00:35:18
forward to the final whistle being blown
00:35:20
and hopefully I've done well, which, you
00:35:22
know, generally I would u but um it can
00:35:25
be quite daunting as well, you know,
00:35:27
being in that position. And it's sort of
00:35:29
a a fear of failure, I suppose. Um I
00:35:32
used to think that if I don't do well,
00:35:34
I've got nothing else. You know, that's
00:35:36
my life. So that fear of failure sort of
00:35:39
pushed me to achieve, you know, that
00:35:42
makes sense.
00:35:43
>> Oh, it makes a lot of sense. I've had
00:35:44
Sir John Kman on the podcast and he he
00:35:46
said the same thing. It's probably
00:35:47
related to maybe it's related to your
00:35:49
mental health. Like he he talked about a
00:35:50
game he had in the 80s where he played
00:35:52
out of his skin and afterwards he's
00:35:54
like, "Well, I'm going to be dr dropped
00:35:55
tomorrow." Like he he just couldn't see
00:35:57
it. And it was constant fear. And I
00:35:59
suppose it is like in that high
00:36:00
performance circle, it's it is like
00:36:01
that. E it's like you're only as good as
00:36:03
your last game.
00:36:04
>> Yep. 100%.
00:36:05
>> So your last game for the AllHites, so
00:36:07
that was uh what 2002
00:36:09
>> 2003
00:36:10
went to Confederation Cup in um in uh in
00:36:14
France. And
00:36:17
I never played in the in the buildup,
00:36:20
you know, the qualifiers for Mexico
00:36:22
Confederations Cup. uh cuz I'd you know
00:36:25
been I'd broken my neck and I wasn't
00:36:26
playing but then I got pulled in when
00:36:28
Ken came to South African and watched me
00:36:30
play a few games and and that was great.
00:36:32
>> Uh I'd been dropped from the 2003
00:36:37
uh Confederations Cup games because and
00:36:39
I didn't play in the in the qualifiers
00:36:41
which we hosted in New Zealand. We had a
00:36:43
sort of round robin type thing and we
00:36:46
played Australia and beaten them 1 nil.
00:36:47
Ryan Nelson scored uh in the final to go
00:36:50
to Confederation Cup 2003. I never
00:36:52
played in the qualifiers because of
00:36:55
disciplinary reasons and we'll get into
00:36:56
that but uh
00:36:58
>> but I uh but I went to the tournament.
00:37:01
Uh so what was the question again?
00:37:03
>> Oh yeah. So just the um yeah the end of
00:37:06
your allights career.
00:37:07
>> Yeah. So we went to the Confederation
00:37:09
Cup. Uh first game was against Japan. We
00:37:12
lost 3-0 and they just destroyed us. The
00:37:14
Japanese were great.
00:37:15
>> Uh second game was against Colombia and
00:37:17
I got man of the match in that game.
00:37:18
They had a great game. Probably my best
00:37:20
game we ever played for New Zealand.
00:37:21
although we did lose 3-1. Uh but I it
00:37:24
was wonderful and I uh was on fire and
00:37:27
um and then our last game was against
00:37:29
France and
00:37:31
playing France at the park to France in
00:37:34
Paris in front of a full house. They're
00:37:37
ranked number one in the world and
00:37:38
they've got players like Terry Henri,
00:37:41
you know,
00:37:42
>> just different class, you know. I
00:37:44
remember when Ken Ken Dale said to the
00:37:47
boys before the you know the before the
00:37:49
we went out onto the park he said guys
00:37:51
you know having our team talk in the
00:37:53
change room and he said arts you know
00:37:55
anything you want to add and I said guys
00:37:58
you know they're the best team in the
00:38:00
world who cares we'll go out there and
00:38:01
give them Kiwi you know Kia car be
00:38:04
strong and giving it all this stuff when
00:38:06
we got into the tunnel dom and we're
00:38:08
lining up to go out onto the pitch you
00:38:10
know because the kiwi boys are quite big
00:38:12
the French were huge huge. They were all
00:38:14
these
00:38:16
just these they were built like brick
00:38:18
[ __ ] houses, you know? They were
00:38:20
massive. I thought, give them a bit of
00:38:21
kiwi, they'll beat the [ __ ] out of us.
00:38:23
We had a fight with these boys. And when
00:38:25
we played against them, it we lost
00:38:28
5-nil. We were losing 3-0 after 19. They
00:38:30
scored a couple of goals in injury time.
00:38:32
So, it's a bit unfair the final result
00:38:34
or the score, but but they could have
00:38:37
turned it on at any time they wanted to.
00:38:39
you know, Terry Henri,
00:38:42
he and Ronaldo, sorry, Ronaldinho are
00:38:44
the two best players that I've played
00:38:46
against. And
00:38:47
>> I've never seen someone with that pace.
00:38:49
He was just amazing. And
00:38:52
you know after the game I swapped shirts
00:38:54
with the goalkeeper and we chatted and
00:38:56
you know we're in the and I actually got
00:38:58
drug tested and so I had to go and sit
00:39:00
in this drug room with you know people
00:39:02
watching me from FIFA and he one of the
00:39:04
male Sistra who Sra who was the
00:39:07
Manchester United left back and he
00:39:09
played left back for France and was
00:39:11
sitting down talking he's telling me
00:39:12
about David Beck and we'd been going
00:39:14
through all this [ __ ] with Alex Ferguson
00:39:17
the manager of Man at the time with and
00:39:19
this hair dryer a situation where
00:39:21
Ferguson had kicked a hair dry and it
00:39:22
hit Beckham in the head and he cut his
00:39:24
head and Beckham ended up leaving and
00:39:26
went I think he went to Madrid. We were
00:39:28
in Madrid then. But but he was telling
00:39:30
me all these stories about it and I'm
00:39:32
thinking
00:39:34
mate and I looked at his shin pads and
00:39:36
he had his shin pads and it had his his
00:39:38
photo on them and then his signature on
00:39:40
his shin pads and I had these little
00:39:41
lotto thing. Your lotto is my sponsor
00:39:43
and I'm thinking
00:39:44
>> like you buy a rebels.
00:39:45
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. But I'm I'm
00:39:47
sitting there thinking
00:39:50
the gap is so wide, but it's actually so
00:39:53
small as well, you know, and I think uh
00:39:57
you know,
00:39:59
you know, if if I had the opportunity to
00:40:01
do it all again, I would have done it a
00:40:02
lot differently, Dom, and
00:40:04
>> and uh but but in saying that, I'm I'm
00:40:07
extremely grateful for what I did
00:40:08
achieve.
00:40:10
>> So, it seems seems like you're on fire
00:40:11
at this point. So, you're playing some
00:40:12
of the best uh the best football of your
00:40:14
career. Um, you said what happened with
00:40:16
the all whites?
00:40:17
>> Well, we just all offfield stuff.
00:40:20
>> No, no, no, nothing at all. It was at at
00:40:22
the end of the tournament. We had a guy
00:40:23
called Paul Smallley who was a director
00:40:24
of coaching, the English lad, and u and
00:40:27
I mate, I had no time for him at all. I
00:40:29
thought he was a dick and and he just
00:40:31
had no personality, you know, and and at
00:40:34
the end of the tournament um I think
00:40:36
about like seven or eight of us got sent
00:40:39
u we we we had a meeting at the end of
00:40:42
the tournament uh the day after we
00:40:44
played France and we had a couple of
00:40:45
days in Paris um and our uh CEO from New
00:40:50
Zealand football, Bill McGowan, who's
00:40:52
unfortunately passed away a few years
00:40:53
back,
00:40:54
>> he uh he came and spoke to us about the
00:40:56
uh the prize money for, you for
00:40:58
achieving uh for getting into the
00:41:01
tournament
00:41:02
>> and we got something like a million
00:41:03
dollars US and half the half of it was
00:41:05
going to the players and half of it goes
00:41:07
to the you know the football association
00:41:09
and he and he they still hadn't
00:41:11
organized how it was going to be divvied
00:41:13
up on you know whether it was all the
00:41:16
guys that played in the qualifying
00:41:17
tournament or the guys that played in
00:41:19
the actual tournament itself and I
00:41:21
didn't play in the qualifiers as I
00:41:22
mentioned earlier but I played all the
00:41:24
games at the tournament and and there
00:41:26
was just all this it you basically stood
00:41:30
a chance to make either 5,000 is the
00:41:32
lowest run of the mill sort of run of
00:41:34
the ladder or at the top of the ladder
00:41:37
you'd make 45,000
00:41:39
>> you know and and it came to me I I I was
00:41:41
at the bottom because I didn't play in
00:41:43
the in the qualifiers
00:41:45
um but Bill asked me you know in in
00:41:48
front of all the boys you know uh what
00:41:50
do you what do you think arts and I said
00:41:52
and I stood up and I said guys
00:41:55
six months ago I caught a soccer ball
00:41:57
for the first time in two years after
00:41:59
being told I'd never walk again, never
00:42:01
play football again, and I've just
00:42:03
played against the best teams in the
00:42:05
world. $45,000
00:42:08
is going to be gone in a year's time if
00:42:10
I get given that today. But the memories
00:42:13
that I'll take away with me for playing
00:42:14
on this world stage will be forever
00:42:17
embedded in my mind. Uh I don't care
00:42:21
what I get to play football. I never
00:42:22
played for the money. uh and uh you know
00:42:26
and that was you know that was it for me
00:42:28
you know it was just
00:42:30
>> such an amazing opportunity and and and
00:42:33
I grasp it.
00:42:34
>> Oh I thought there was there was a thing
00:42:35
like um
00:42:36
>> oh no sorry getting back to that
00:42:38
tournament. Yeah so we we organized that
00:42:40
so basically that was all good and so it
00:42:41
was sorted out in the end. We got a
00:42:43
little bit and divvied up and then we
00:42:45
got we got back to New Zealand and then
00:42:47
Paul Smallley had sent these letters out
00:42:49
to the to eight of the senior players,
00:42:51
myself included, saying uh uh sent these
00:42:54
emails saying uh like to thank you for
00:42:56
your uh contribution to New Zealand
00:42:59
football. Um you will never be uh
00:43:03
basically words were you'll never be
00:43:05
selected again because you've done your
00:43:07
your tenure. um and we'd like you to
00:43:11
keep this to yourself and not, you know,
00:43:12
talk to the press about it or anything
00:43:14
like that. And I was going, are you
00:43:16
[ __ ] serious, man? It's like, you've
00:43:18
just kicked us out of the whites after
00:43:21
giving you good guys like Chris Jackson
00:43:22
who had played 80 times when New Zealand
00:43:24
got the letter and saying that they no
00:43:26
longer required and um and that was how
00:43:30
we were treated, which was pretty pretty
00:43:32
sad. But I think back in those days we
00:43:35
uh you know we were still an amateur
00:43:38
country you know trying to you know sort
00:43:40
of run it as professionals and we were
00:43:43
struggling.
00:43:43
>> Yeah.
00:43:44
>> But uh but yeah so there was no scale
00:43:46
duggery going on or anything like that
00:43:47
>> cuz there was um I thought June 30th
00:43:50
2002 you went drinking then the you had
00:43:52
your whites contract torn up the next
00:43:53
day or something. No
00:43:55
>> no no.
00:43:56
>> I thought I read something online about
00:43:57
that. No, no. I got I got kicked out of
00:43:59
the all whites were in training camp up
00:44:01
in Oakuckland. Uh we just been to China
00:44:03
for for a trip build up before the
00:44:06
Confederation's Cup qualifiers. Uh and
00:44:09
the night before the game, sorry, we we
00:44:11
we played down Firmland in in in
00:44:13
Wellington as part of our at the West
00:44:15
and as part of our buildup, we uh we
00:44:18
played them down there on a Wednesday
00:44:19
night, I think. And I'd come back from
00:44:21
South Africa. I was all ready to go. Uh
00:44:24
after the game, I I'd had a good No, no,
00:44:26
sorry. It was the night before the game.
00:44:28
I went to see my physio and I said to
00:44:31
him, um once again, I won't know names,
00:44:33
but I said, "Look, I'm really excited.
00:44:36
We're playing in Wellington tomorrow. Uh
00:44:38
and remember, Domin, I'm an alcoholic.
00:44:41
I'm an alcoholic." And then and and I I
00:44:43
said to him, "Look, have you got
00:44:45
anything that can help me sleep? I'm so,
00:44:47
you know, sort of hyped up about playing
00:44:49
in front of my own my home town and my
00:44:52
friends and family that are going to be
00:44:53
there tomorrow. Haven't played in New
00:44:54
Zealand for 5 years. So, he pulled out a
00:44:57
bottle of Conniac
00:44:59
and I ended up drinking the whole bottle
00:45:00
of Conniac and then we uh got onto a
00:45:04
bottle of whiskey and I and we drunk 3/4
00:45:07
or 2/3 of that. Uh and then uh woke up
00:45:11
the next morning in my bed and still
00:45:14
still drunk.
00:45:16
>> Mhm. We had went down had breakfast uh
00:45:19
flew down to Wellington played a game
00:45:20
man that night I was playing the game
00:45:25
and it and it's that fear of failure
00:45:28
again comes in I'm thinking what have I
00:45:30
done and what have I how I've come back
00:45:32
to New Zealand and here I am drunk
00:45:36
playing for New Zealand you know you
00:45:38
know my mates and my family's here and
00:45:40
that and thinking what sane person would
00:45:44
do that obviously I wasn't sane I I have
00:45:46
mental issues with my drinking and I was
00:45:49
an alcoholic. I didn't I didn't I didn't
00:45:51
think I was at the time because I used
00:45:52
to be a binger.
00:45:54
>> I didn't drink every day of the week. I
00:45:55
could have beer in the fridge and not
00:45:56
touch it and but then when I started I
00:45:58
didn't stop and um anyway so two days
00:46:02
later um got caught into hang just just
00:46:06
before we go. So were you um were you
00:46:08
still drunk playing? Were you hung over?
00:46:10
>> I was drunk. I was still drunk when I
00:46:11
played. Man, I can't imagine the um I
00:46:13
think most people listening to this or
00:46:15
watching this would have had that
00:46:15
moment, you know, anxiety.
00:46:18
>> Um and just the the guilt and shame that
00:46:21
washes over you. You So you're playing
00:46:23
playing for the all whites.
00:46:25
>> Standing there thinking, "What the [ __ ]
00:46:26
am I doing? I'm a [ __ ] loser."
00:46:28
>> Yeah. Biggest loser in the world.
00:46:29
Biggest loser in the world. Who would
00:46:31
[ __ ] up this opportunity? You know, me.
00:46:33
>> U we've got to go back to the Melbourne
00:46:36
game when I later on.
00:46:38
>> The Melbourne marijuana. We'll get get
00:46:40
to that story.
00:46:41
>> Melbourne Melbourne marijuana. Is that
00:46:43
the name of a team over there?
00:46:44
>> No, no, no. That's that's a that's
00:46:46
another topic that I really want to
00:46:48
touch on with us. It's it's quite funny.
00:46:49
You like it. But um yeah, I mean I just
00:46:52
I just got slaughtered, you know, but I
00:46:54
used to I used to do it often, Dom, you
00:46:56
know, I used to and and
00:46:59
now being sober, you know, and thinking
00:47:02
how lovely life is and not having the
00:47:04
[ __ ] you know, not waking up and
00:47:06
wondering who have I phoned, who have I
00:47:08
text, what have I done to embarrass
00:47:10
myself, you know, and you know, not
00:47:12
having that over my head at the moment
00:47:14
or, you know, touch what it never
00:47:16
happens again is wonderful, you know,
00:47:18
cuz you're living in fear like that. But
00:47:20
um
00:47:21
>> I I I I can see I can see parallels like
00:47:24
um I I can I can easily not drink. Um
00:47:28
but once I start I have I have trouble
00:47:30
stopping.
00:47:30
>> Yep. Yeah. I don't stop. I I would drink
00:47:33
u you know I'd go on binges for 5 days.
00:47:37
>> You know in South Africa when I wasn't
00:47:39
when the season had finished I'd go
00:47:41
>> I'd go missing for five days.
00:47:43
>> Yeah.
00:47:45
>> Um
00:47:46
yeah I think that's probably relatable
00:47:47
for a lot of people. A lot of people
00:47:49
better relate to that.
00:47:50
>> Yeah. So, um yeah, the June 30th, 2002
00:47:52
thing with the the Cognac and the uh the
00:47:55
whiskey. Then there was an Herald
00:47:57
article in 2007 um where you say it's
00:48:00
been 4 years, 7 months, and 18 days
00:48:03
since I last had a drink.
00:48:04
>> Longest I went without drinking. My uh
00:48:06
>> mate, that's a long stint. Why? Yeah.
00:48:07
When did you start again? You were doing
00:48:09
so well.
00:48:10
>> I was doing great. My life was
00:48:12
fantastic. I was playing good football.
00:48:13
I was playing for the Kings at the time.
00:48:14
And and then I met a lady uh who I ended
00:48:18
up end up I've only been married once
00:48:20
and we have a beautiful child which is
00:48:22
you know what we got out of it. I have a
00:48:24
15-year-old daughter now 15y old
00:48:25
daughter who uh currently not talking to
00:48:27
dad because she thinks uh her life is
00:48:30
just too busy. So I think that's I've
00:48:32
been told that's just a 15year-old's
00:48:34
mentality isn't it? You know but uh but
00:48:37
she'll come back when she's certainly
00:48:38
but uh but she's my best mate. Uh but I
00:48:41
um you know I met a lady and uh and we
00:48:45
fell in love and we used to have she's
00:48:47
Scottish and the Scots like a drink or
00:48:49
two and her family's a lot of her family
00:48:52
out here New Zealand living here as well
00:48:54
and and we ended up buying a property
00:48:57
together. We end up getting married in
00:48:58
Royal Tonga. Uh but her family and and
00:49:03
and she used to say, "God, it' be good
00:49:06
if you could just drink because you have
00:49:07
so much fun anyway. You know, you're the
00:49:09
life of the party." And I say, "Well, I
00:49:11
don't need to drink then, do I?" And she
00:49:12
goes, "Yeah, but it would be so much
00:49:14
nicer if we could have a drink." And so
00:49:16
then we said, "Okay, let's just have two
00:49:18
drinks then." And like, mate, it's like,
00:49:22
you know, I'll have the two drinks, but
00:49:25
I'm just wanting to sneak in or have
00:49:27
another one, you know, and uh and it's
00:49:28
it's e it's all or nothing if you're,
00:49:31
you know, if you're a drinking
00:49:32
alcoholic. And um and so having a couple
00:49:35
uh you know that was just basically
00:49:38
opening the uh boom docks again and
00:49:40
knowing that it's going to lead to worse
00:49:42
things and and it did and it you know in
00:49:45
the end cost me my marriage and and uh
00:49:48
yeah cost me my my
00:49:52
I don't know sobriety and uh and my
00:49:54
sanity I suppose to a certain extent
00:49:56
because you know what do you do what do
00:49:59
you do these things if they're you know
00:50:01
the results so negative in your life and
00:50:02
you just keep doing it.
00:50:05
>> Oh man, how many how many other breaks
00:50:07
have there been between then and now?
00:50:08
Like 2007 and
00:50:10
>> Well, now I've just done it just about a
00:50:12
year. Uh I uh I've never done hard
00:50:15
drugs, smoked a pot, you know, as I
00:50:17
think quite a few Kiwis have, you know,
00:50:19
but uh
00:50:21
>> I've I've never done hard drugs or
00:50:23
anything like that. Uh
00:50:25
I have to inject myself cuz I'm a
00:50:27
diabetic, but I don't know how people
00:50:29
can inject drugs into their Oh, it's
00:50:32
just scary. I've had a couple of times
00:50:34
where I've probably been about uh you
00:50:36
know, I've gone for months without
00:50:37
drinking, but this is, you know, finally
00:50:40
I'm at the stage now I realize after all
00:50:42
the health issues I've had with my heart
00:50:44
and having a heart cardiac arrest and u
00:50:47
you know and I want to I've put on all
00:50:49
this weight uh but I'm walking every day
00:50:52
and I'm sort of I've turned the corner
00:50:54
now where I feel like I can get very
00:50:57
healthy again and I'm working towards
00:50:59
that. But I'm doing that, you know, over
00:51:02
a long period of time rather than doing
00:51:04
it all today.
00:51:05
>> Yeah.
00:51:05
>> So, uh yeah, just just just moving
00:51:08
forward, I suppose. And uh and and
00:51:10
staying off the alcohol for me is is the
00:51:13
biggest
00:51:15
uh positive in my life these days. It's
00:51:18
bigger than anything.
00:51:20
>> What? I don't think there's too many
00:51:21
people in the history of the universe
00:51:23
that have um quit alcohol and said their
00:51:24
life got worse.
00:51:25
>> No. Exactly.
00:51:26
>> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Oh, I mean,
00:51:28
hindsight, we've talked about hindsight,
00:51:29
and it's it's a bit of a pointless game.
00:51:31
But [ __ ] you think about how different
00:51:33
your life would be now if you if you
00:51:34
didn't start drinking again after after
00:51:36
quitting in 2002.
00:51:37
>> Yeah.
00:51:38
>> You know,
00:51:38
>> I mean, look at I look at some of the
00:51:40
players, you know, the goalkeepers that
00:51:42
I've trained with, especially in
00:51:43
Australia. I trained with Mark
00:51:44
Schwarzer, who ended up playing in
00:51:46
England for years, who played at
00:51:47
Middlesbrough, and Mark Bosnich, who
00:51:49
played at Manchester United,
00:51:51
>> and Steve Maton, who played at West Ham.
00:51:53
And these guys that I used to train
00:51:54
with, I used to think I was as good as
00:51:56
them, you know, without being too cocky.
00:51:58
You've got to be confident, obviously,
00:51:59
if you want to achieve.
00:52:00
>> Uh but um yeah, it it it
00:52:06
I used to get lifts to training when I
00:52:08
was in Melbourne. Uh I used to get
00:52:11
picked up by a guy called who's a year
00:52:13
younger than me, a guy called Kevin
00:52:14
Musket. Now Kevin's now coaching in
00:52:17
Saudi Arabia I think or or Japan or
00:52:20
something but he played for Australia
00:52:22
played for Milwall played for a few
00:52:25
clubs in in England was renowned as a
00:52:28
super hard man. He was he was dirty and
00:52:30
and uh but he played at the South M uh
00:52:33
sorry at first of all at Sunshine George
00:52:36
Cross and Maltes club that I went over
00:52:38
there to first play with then we went to
00:52:40
South Melbourne together. Um, I look at
00:52:42
what he's done and I could have followed
00:52:45
the, you know, very easily, I think.
00:52:47
>> Uh, but as I said, I didn't have that
00:52:49
that that direction or that
00:52:51
>> that north star or that role I
00:52:54
>> Yeah. Does it make you feel sad?
00:52:58
Well, not really because I I look at
00:53:00
what I did achieve
00:53:02
>> and for a guy that grew up in Nio, a
00:53:05
broken home with nothing,
00:53:07
>> all my mates used to have bikes and all
00:53:09
that and soccer balls and I didn't have
00:53:11
any of it, you know. I I had no none of
00:53:13
these toys and these toys that they had
00:53:16
and I was always sort of hanging around
00:53:18
with them and u you know, so everything
00:53:21
I got was like secondhand or anything
00:53:23
like that. So to achieve what I achieved
00:53:26
I think was pretty special. Anyway,
00:53:29
>> well what was the um going back to the
00:53:31
story before? What's the Melbourne
00:53:32
marijuana story?
00:53:33
>> Marijuana in Melbourne. Mate, I've got
00:53:34
to I've got to tell you this one. I I
00:53:36
went to Melbourne as I said to play for
00:53:38
this uh Sunshine George Cross and season
00:53:41
had finished and I and I go to Melbourne
00:53:43
um South Melbourne and they're a Greek
00:53:46
club. Okay. basically Greek uh ethnic
00:53:49
community supports them. And so I um I
00:53:53
end up going there and and you allowed
00:53:56
three people over the age of 20 to play
00:53:59
in the under 20s, which is like the
00:54:01
reserve team league. So I was playing
00:54:03
predominantly for the reserves
00:54:06
>> and um excuse me, I'll just have some of
00:54:08
that.
00:54:08
>> Yeah, for sure.
00:54:11
>> How you doing? You coping all right? You
00:54:12
doing all right?
00:54:13
>> Yeah. Are we going well? I'm loving it.
00:54:15
M really it's really I'm really enjoying
00:54:17
sharing with you. So thank you.
00:54:19
>> Is it um Yeah. Is it uncomfortable
00:54:21
talking about this stuff or is it okay?
00:54:23
>> I'm an open book and uh
00:54:25
>> I'm happy to share. I'm happy to share.
00:54:27
I think if it can and possibly help
00:54:29
people as well.
00:54:30
>> Yeah, for sure.
00:54:30
>> It's it's helping me.
00:54:31
>> Yeah.
00:54:32
>> Cuz it's pointing my it's pointing my
00:54:34
thing across which I couldn't speak
00:54:36
about before about that stuff
00:54:38
>> because it was just [ __ ] But
00:54:40
>> Well, addiction is a complicated thing,
00:54:42
right?
00:54:42
>> Yeah.
00:54:43
>> It's niggly. Yeah.
00:54:44
>> Can you back to the Melbourne?
00:54:45
>> Yeah. Yes, please.
00:54:46
>> So, so we uh we we uh it was cup final
00:54:50
week and the seniors, you know, the
00:54:53
first team, they had qualified for the
00:54:55
final. They were playing Melbourne
00:54:56
night. So, it was two Melbourne clubs
00:54:58
playing in the final um at Concord Oval
00:55:01
in Melbourne. And there the curtain
00:55:04
raiser was the under 20 national final.
00:55:08
And lo and behold, my under 20 Melbourne
00:55:13
team had qualified for that. I was a
00:55:15
captain actually. And uh and obviously I
00:55:18
was 21. I was the oldest guy there
00:55:19
because I was, you know, whatever.
00:55:21
Anyway, so we were meant to be playing
00:55:24
the Sydney Sydney Olympic, which is
00:55:27
another Greek club, uh on the Sunday.
00:55:31
We uh we trained on the Thursday night
00:55:34
and then afterwards I went to see uh a
00:55:38
mate of mine, a Dutch guy who uh he
00:55:42
lived with a a girlfriend or mate um in
00:55:45
Melbourne in the city center sort of
00:55:47
thing and they had this beautiful house
00:55:48
surrounded by these huge walls and just
00:55:50
all this beautiful um um you know plant
00:55:54
life and that and it was amazing set up
00:55:56
there and he had these two big he goes
00:55:59
you know I've been to the house a few
00:56:00
times times and I knew her. I didn't
00:56:02
really know him but I got to know him
00:56:04
and we became friends. His name was Hans
00:56:06
and he goes, "Hands?" And he goes,
00:56:07
"Michael, I want to show you my friend."
00:56:09
So he took me out into his backyard and
00:56:11
we walked around and saw this big
00:56:13
compost heap and compost bin and saw
00:56:16
these beautiful huge marijuana plants
00:56:19
and they were both about 10 11t tall.
00:56:22
They were huge. And he goes, "I've got a
00:56:25
present for you." and he actually took
00:56:26
me back inside and he gave me this big
00:56:28
it was like a you know like a size of a
00:56:31
pillowcase full with pot and uh and I
00:56:34
wasn't a a pot smoker or anything those
00:56:38
days I had a dabble every now and again
00:56:40
anyway so I said oh okay and he goes
00:56:43
well let's have some this this is a
00:56:45
Thursday night mind you meant to be
00:56:47
going home getting ready for this big
00:56:49
game on the Sunday the addiction side of
00:56:51
me comes in again kicks off again so I
00:56:54
woke up um you know thinking it was
00:56:57
Friday morning. It was Sunday morning.
00:57:00
>> Oh,
00:57:01
>> we had been on it from Thursday night
00:57:05
and we'd gone through Friday. The only
00:57:09
time we left the house was to go to get
00:57:10
some takeaways and munchies. Saturday I
00:57:13
thought, well, we'll have a couple and
00:57:15
then I better get home in the afternoon.
00:57:17
Obviously, that went out the door.
00:57:19
Sunday morning, I wake up at 10:00 in
00:57:21
the morning. I've got to be at the
00:57:23
stadium at 12:00.
00:57:26
Two hours later, 30,000 people are going
00:57:28
to be at this game, you know, and we're
00:57:30
playing the Colonel Razer for the big
00:57:31
game, but still a cup final for the
00:57:33
under 20. So, so I drove home, got my
00:57:36
suit, and put my suit on and drove back
00:57:39
into town. Um, I didn't have a cell
00:57:43
phone back in those days. That was still
00:57:44
back in the old days when the walls were
00:57:46
the phone was stuck to the wall at home,
00:57:47
you And u so I I drive to the stadium uh
00:57:51
and I'm getting there. It's about 12.
00:57:53
It's it's 5 12 or something. I meant to
00:57:57
be there at 12:00. And uh I think our
00:57:59
kickoff was like 1 and then the big game
00:58:02
was at 3 or something. Anyway, so I
00:58:04
arrive there and when I get there I can
00:58:07
sort of hear this roar and stuff and uh
00:58:10
I'm walking through the to the back of
00:58:12
the stand sort of thing and there's all
00:58:14
the dignity there. you bought your car
00:58:15
and you got to have your, you know, your
00:58:17
your press pass and all that stuff. And
00:58:19
I'm thinking, what's going on? Our game
00:58:21
was brought forward an hour and a half.
00:58:24
So, we cooked off at 11:30. So, they've
00:58:27
been trying to get in touch with me for
00:58:28
days saying, you know, and so I get in
00:58:30
there, I'm stoned out of my nut, mate.
00:58:35
I'm walking in there and I've got shades
00:58:37
on. It's hot. It's like 35° in Melbourne
00:58:40
and sweating like a bloody banjo. And
00:58:43
I'm walking in there going, "No, what
00:58:44
have I done? I've done it again, you
00:58:46
[ __ ] idiot." You know, walk in there
00:58:49
and all the Greeks go, "Michael,
00:58:50
Michael, get in the change room." I go
00:58:51
to the change room. Uh, whatever on a
00:58:54
jack or whatever, the kit man gets me my
00:58:56
kid. And so I go to put my kid on. I
00:58:58
think, "No, I can't even stand up." And
00:59:00
so I strip off, jump in the shower, ice
00:59:03
cold for 2 minutes, and then Jake comes
00:59:05
into the shower and he goes, "Michael,
00:59:07
you've got to come on. We need you. We
00:59:09
need you. You're the leader. You're the
00:59:10
captain for the boys." And uh so I get
00:59:13
my kid on. I go out there and it's like
00:59:15
they've played 40 minutes, you know, and
00:59:17
and it's nil nil and they sub me on with
00:59:22
Dom with 5 minutes to go to halftime and
00:59:24
I'm going, "Oh no, why don't we just
00:59:25
wait till the halftime? We're doing
00:59:26
well. We don't want to, you know." So
00:59:28
they sub me on. I go on, I can't even
00:59:31
stand up properly, mate. Um, I I I came
00:59:34
up for two one-on- ones, you know, like
00:59:36
one-on-one with his striker. And one he
00:59:39
smashed and hit me in the face and gone
00:59:41
up. The other one he smashed, hit me in
00:59:42
the knee. They look like great saves,
00:59:44
mate. I'm just trying to stand up, you
00:59:46
know, and and I don't go for any
00:59:48
crosses. When we get a couple of goal
00:59:50
kicks, I get the defender to take the
00:59:51
goal kicks. I'm an embarrassment. We
00:59:54
come off at Halime. We scored before
00:59:56
Halime, so it's like, yeah. So, we go
00:59:59
into the change room at Halime. I'm
01:00:01
straight into the shower again to have a
01:00:03
cold shower and Jack comes in. He goes,
01:00:05
"Mike, are you okay?" You know, the
01:00:06
coach wants to talk and go back out
01:00:08
there. I still can't see, mate. I've got
01:00:11
I'm honestly seeing double. And I'm
01:00:12
thinking,
01:00:14
>> well, that's probably what smoking pot
01:00:16
for three, four days non-stop goes, you
01:00:18
know, does to you. And um in the end, we
01:00:21
won 1 nil and and I ended up having
01:00:24
quite a good game. I can't remember any
01:00:26
of it, you know. And
01:00:27
>> is it online? Like, have you seen it on
01:00:29
YouTube or anything?
01:00:30
But uh but but you know afterwards we
01:00:33
got the cup and all that stuff and and
01:00:35
that was just one of the
01:00:38
one of the lucky sort of instances where
01:00:42
I got away with being an absolute dick,
01:00:45
you know.
01:00:45
>> So you you you tell these stories and
01:00:47
you you tell them and they and they're
01:00:49
very funny stories only only they're not
01:00:52
funny like it's it's your life and you
01:00:54
you have this incredible talent and
01:00:55
you're just sort of capitulating. Yeah,
01:00:58
>> it's [ __ ] sad in a way. It's tragic.
01:01:01
>> Well, very sad because you you're waking
01:01:03
up and
01:01:05
one of the worst Well, there's a lot of
01:01:07
negatives, but one of the worst things
01:01:09
is you, you know, because I because I
01:01:12
didn't have any sort of guidance and and
01:01:14
help and I needed it. Uh, but I never I
01:01:18
never found it. I never I never went out
01:01:20
to find it either. I never never really
01:01:22
looked for it, but I needed that help.
01:01:24
Um,
01:01:26
I just used to think, God, I've done it
01:01:28
again. You know,
01:01:29
>> you know what? I used to often, and I've
01:01:32
said this a million times to people,
01:01:34
what sane person does what I've done?
01:01:36
You know,
01:01:37
>> it's the definition. I think it was
01:01:38
Einstein said the definition of madness
01:01:40
is doing the same thing over and over
01:01:42
and expecting a different result.
01:01:43
>> But what um yeah, was there a rock
01:01:46
bottom moment?
01:01:48
>> I think um I've had a couple. But when I
01:01:51
broke my neck in the car crash, I'd
01:01:53
never walk again. That that was one.
01:01:56
>> Um, but and earlier that night when I,
01:01:59
you know, we went down to the, you know,
01:02:01
to the my mate's restaurant that he was
01:02:03
leaving the next day, Jose, and the guy
01:02:05
that I was best man at him and his
01:02:06
elders's wedding.
01:02:08
>> U, when I went down there, I had a few
01:02:10
drinks and then I said, I've got to go
01:02:11
home. And I actually had driven down
01:02:13
there and I remember now. And I drove
01:02:15
home. I drove into a a wall at my flat
01:02:21
when I got back. So the writing was
01:02:24
always already on the wall and then they
01:02:26
then I went upstairs and they phoned me
01:02:27
to say come back down to the pub and I
01:02:28
said no. And then they came and got me
01:02:30
and then I went out you know to to Sun
01:02:32
City. It's like what are you do you just
01:02:36
>> there was when you when you turn that
01:02:38
switch it's just there's just no coming
01:02:40
back. and uh should have died many
01:02:44
times, Dom and uh you know I I think uh
01:02:48
you know I'm not I'm not a religious man
01:02:49
as such but I do believe in a higher
01:02:51
power
01:02:52
>> and uh you know I I believe that I've u
01:02:56
>> you know I've been put on this earth to
01:02:58
do a lot of good for other things. I
01:03:00
mean I work with special needs kids
01:03:02
which which is my calling.
01:03:03
>> I love it. I love uh you know being a
01:03:06
big brother type thing. I work with, you
01:03:07
know, male special needs uh individuals
01:03:11
and uh you know, the joy I get out of
01:03:14
giving back to those people is is cool
01:03:16
and you become part of the family as
01:03:18
well.
01:03:19
>> So, I like doing that. I used to go into
01:03:21
a lot of schools and do reading and
01:03:23
>> I've got a lot of photos I could show at
01:03:25
some stage, but I used to put on
01:03:27
Facebook. I used to uh dress up as a
01:03:29
superhero like if I'm Batman. I've got
01:03:32
these unbelievable uniforms, Batman or
01:03:34
Darth Vader or uh uh you know Spider-Man
01:03:39
uniforms, you know, and you and and I
01:03:41
used to go to school and do reading
01:03:43
>> for for for the youth and that sort of
01:03:45
stuff. And I get a kick out of doing
01:03:48
that, you know, because it gives me
01:03:50
feeling that I'm doing something for
01:03:51
someone else. So, you know, like getting
01:03:54
back to what goes wrong comes around.
01:03:55
And I sort of think if you do a lot of
01:03:56
good things in your life, you know,
01:03:58
maybe maybe good things will happen to
01:04:00
you sort of thing, you know.
01:04:01
>> Yeah.
01:04:03
>> What about with the um with the alcohol?
01:04:05
Like how did how did you give up in the
01:04:07
times that you've given up? Especially
01:04:08
that time in the early 2000s where you
01:04:10
were sober for like four years or
01:04:12
however long it was.
01:04:13
>> Did you did you do AA or did you try
01:04:15
therapy?
01:04:15
>> I did AA few times. Um, and uh,
01:04:20
>> is it not your thing or
01:04:22
>> No, no, I had nothing against IA at all.
01:04:25
I thought it was wonderful. It's, you
01:04:26
know, it's to help people and I used to
01:04:29
enjoy going and sharing and a lot of
01:04:31
people, although it's Alcoholics
01:04:32
Anonymous, a lot of people there would
01:04:34
know who I was, you know. Um, but I, um,
01:04:39
what am I thinking now? I'm just
01:04:41
thinking I uh I've been pretty resilient
01:04:47
I suppose over the years and and
01:04:50
everything I've achieved honestly I've
01:04:52
never been given a handout. So
01:04:54
everything I've achieved I've achieved.
01:04:57
>> And this is just another thing where you
01:05:00
know if I want to do well in life it's
01:05:02
you know I'm I've got no money now but I
01:05:05
don't have any debt but I uh
01:05:09
I'm I'm happy being by myself now.
01:05:13
>> Uh I don't think I'm uh uh in a position
01:05:16
where I can value a relationship
01:05:19
properly because I've got to value
01:05:20
myself better. And uh
01:05:24
yeah, and that's that's pretty much it,
01:05:26
I suppose.
01:05:27
>> Well, um yeah. Did did you ever ask for
01:05:32
help or did you just sort of deal with
01:05:33
this?
01:05:33
>> I went to AA and sort of and did that
01:05:36
and you meant to do your 12 steps, but
01:05:38
Dom, honestly, I just thought, mate, if
01:05:41
you don't want to get in [ __ ] don't
01:05:42
drink.
01:05:43
>> So, I just don't drink.
01:05:45
>> Yeah. But yeah, addiction's hard though,
01:05:46
eh? Because it's more layered and more
01:05:48
complex than that. Like it'd be easy for
01:05:49
people that know you like
01:05:50
>> No, no, I disagree.
01:05:52
>> Do you?
01:05:52
>> Yeah, I disagree. I think um
01:05:56
you don't want to smoke cigarettes and
01:05:58
and and and have the appetite, just
01:06:00
don't smoke, you know. You got to, you
01:06:02
know, I I've I've got to be driven to
01:06:05
have achieved what I've achieved, you
01:06:07
know, and although I might have missed
01:06:09
out in certain areas of my life, maybe
01:06:11
with with the guidance and the probably
01:06:13
I'm not mate, I'm not this sharpest taxi
01:06:16
in the rank sort of thing, you know, the
01:06:17
brightest taxi, whatever, but sharpest
01:06:19
tool in the shed, whatever. But I uh
01:06:22
I've always been quite driven, as I
01:06:23
said, the you know, the fear of failure
01:06:25
and having nothing else to have in your
01:06:27
life. So, you've got to achieve
01:06:28
otherwise you're stuffed. And uh and
01:06:31
that's the same with the alcohol I
01:06:32
suppose you know it's like it's all or
01:06:34
nothing.
01:06:35
>> I uh I don't like
01:06:38
what it's done what I've done to family
01:06:40
members as far as embarrassed.
01:06:43
>> I uh
01:06:43
>> have you in what way?
01:06:45
>> I'll tell you an example. When I was in
01:06:46
South Africa my father was married to a
01:06:49
lady beautiful lady called Alice Indian
01:06:50
lady and lovely lovely and and when I
01:06:54
used to go and stay with him there was
01:06:55
just so much love there. and and we went
01:06:58
went down for Christmas one year and uh
01:07:01
my father didn't know I was a drinker
01:07:03
but I went to a Christmas in in Durban
01:07:05
in Chhatzwood and it was uh with uh my
01:07:08
father's wife's his third wife I think
01:07:11
he uh Ellis's family in Chatzsworth the
01:07:14
Indians and uh beautiful people and the
01:07:18
they prepare the food and they eat it
01:07:20
with their hands and it's just
01:07:21
traditional English dishes and uh Indian
01:07:24
dishes and uh and I want I stayed with
01:07:26
him and uh on Christmas day I went into
01:07:30
the kitchen to get a lemonade and the
01:07:32
maid was in there, one of the maids, and
01:07:34
she was doing the dishes and I said to
01:07:35
her, "Cynthia, you can't do them. You
01:07:38
know, you're meant to be there out
01:07:39
having fun, you know, don't do the
01:07:41
dishes. This is Christmas Day. this is
01:07:42
your day to enjoy, be part of the
01:07:44
family, you know, and uh and I saw a
01:07:47
bottle of straw rum, so I thought I'd
01:07:50
have a little, you know, with have a
01:07:53
straw rum and um
01:07:55
and do the dishes. Uh Dom, I woke up the
01:07:59
next day and I was at my agent's house
01:08:02
>> who lives in Durban. And what I had
01:08:04
done, I drunk the whole bottle of straw
01:08:06
rum and then I'd gone out and I'd abused
01:08:09
the whole Christmas day party and I was
01:08:13
oblivious to it. And
01:08:15
>> but I told them they're all racist and
01:08:16
they shouldn't be putting a maiden to do
01:08:19
the dishes on Christmas day when it's
01:08:21
her day and I'll do it and you can all
01:08:23
get stuffed. And anyway, she uh Alice
01:08:27
had sclerodma which is a skin
01:08:30
pigmentations of the skin change color
01:08:32
and skin goes quite hard and you sort of
01:08:34
go into remission after a couple of
01:08:35
years. So she was getting diialysis and
01:08:37
having blood transfusions and all that
01:08:39
stuff. I because of what I did on that
01:08:42
day and was basically told to get off.
01:08:45
They called my agent. and he came and
01:08:46
picked me up, woke up on his couch the
01:08:49
next day and he and his wife and kids
01:08:51
and they said, "Oh god, you've [ __ ] up
01:08:53
again." And I said, "Oh my god." You
01:08:55
know, not what cuz I never I never
01:08:57
wanted to upset people. It's the worst
01:08:59
thing when I did. I've done it again.
01:09:01
And you know, it's like, "Oh my god,
01:09:03
what have I done? I I'm the most fearful
01:09:05
person in the world that I've upset you.
01:09:07
I hate to upset people and I've done it
01:09:10
again." And um
01:09:13
what happened with Ellis is you know she
01:09:14
she was not well and it's meant to go
01:09:17
into remission and then she gets better.
01:09:19
I had a break from them. They had a
01:09:21
break from me. Um you know and and like
01:09:24
4 months later
01:09:27
I get a phone call from my father to say
01:09:28
that Alice had passed away and I never
01:09:32
got to apologize to her. you know, it
01:09:35
broke my heart and uh and I said, "Okay,
01:09:37
Dad. Well, I'll I'll come down for the
01:09:39
for the funeral." And he goes, "No,
01:09:40
you're not welcome." So, I' I'd done so
01:09:43
much damage to that family that I was no
01:09:45
longer
01:09:46
>> part of it. And uh you know, this is
01:09:48
another thing. And and I've done that,
01:09:51
you know, Dom, I've I've done that so
01:09:54
many times, you know, and uh not
01:09:57
drinking now. I haven't upset one person
01:10:01
in the year that I have that I haven't
01:10:03
been drinking now.
01:10:04
>> I haven't upset one person to any, you
01:10:07
know, to to
01:10:09
like I'd done in the past, you know.
01:10:12
>> Yeah.
01:10:12
>> So, it's why I don't drink.
01:10:14
>> Yeah. Yeah. I was going to ask what sort
01:10:15
of um what sort of a drunk you were,
01:10:17
like were you a happy drunk or you life
01:10:19
at the party? But I I feel like that
01:10:21
answer there sort of answers the
01:10:23
question in a way.
01:10:24
>> I sort of go with whatever's going, you
01:10:25
know? I mean, I can be the happiest,
01:10:27
loving, most beautiful person in the
01:10:29
world
01:10:30
>> and then I can be the biggest pratt
01:10:33
ever.
01:10:33
>> For for someone that's listening to this
01:10:35
or watching this that might be battling
01:10:37
addiction silently, what would your
01:10:39
advice be?
01:10:40
>> Seek help.
01:10:41
>> Seek I go for walks with a with a
01:10:44
gentleman that's um I live in West
01:10:46
Oakland now and I go for walks every two
01:10:49
or three days. Walk and talk I call it
01:10:51
>> with a mate of mine. He's from the Cook
01:10:52
Islands and he uh I just met him. I
01:10:55
actually go to the cemetery in West
01:10:56
Oakland and I and I go and have picnics
01:10:59
there by myself. It's a nice place to go
01:11:00
and be at be at ease by yourself and and
01:11:04
and a place where you can uh
01:11:07
>> just just chill out, you know. And I met
01:11:10
this guy. He was walking his his baby in
01:11:12
the pram and and he said that he's an ex
01:11:14
pee head, you know, and u
01:11:16
>> so we've created a relationship. He he
01:11:18
has a partner. She doesn't he doesn't
01:11:20
live with her because they were both
01:11:21
addicts. So, they've got a break, but
01:11:23
they've got a little 13-month old baby.
01:11:25
And uh you know, and part of me
01:11:29
being good for myself and part of my
01:11:31
treatment is um is sharing with other
01:11:33
people as well.
01:11:34
>> So, if I can help other people, that
01:11:36
that that that's for me the best
01:11:38
medicine.
01:11:39
>> Yeah. What what was the catalyst um for
01:11:41
giving up this last time a year ago? Uh
01:11:45
I have a 15year-old daughter 14 at the
01:11:48
time that I uh that I want to see grow
01:11:51
old. I want to share with her, share the
01:11:54
love that she shares with me because she
01:11:56
is um the most amazing thing in the
01:11:59
world, you know, and u but also
01:12:04
uh just sick of just sick of all this
01:12:09
[ __ ] you know? I mean, it's there's
01:12:11
nothing worse. Every every day that I
01:12:13
drunk, every day I would wake up the
01:12:16
next morning cuz I used to black out
01:12:18
every time I drunk, you know. Obviously,
01:12:20
it took years to get to that stage, but
01:12:23
you know, I would drink I'd be looking
01:12:24
for that nice little
01:12:27
feeling, you know, that you get when
01:12:28
you've had a couple. But
01:12:30
>> there's that window e
01:12:32
maybe an hour and 90 minutes.
01:12:33
>> Yeah, that's the one, mate. And then
01:12:34
you're [ __ ] So, I was always looking
01:12:37
for that and then I'd just overboard and
01:12:39
then I'd wake up the next morning. And
01:12:40
the thing is I would wake up
01:12:44
thinking, what have I done? You know,
01:12:47
who have I pissed off today? Who have I
01:12:50
who have I called, you know, who have I
01:12:54
been
01:12:55
disgusting to, you know, who have I
01:12:57
tried it on with, you know, and uh you
01:13:01
know, who who have I abused, you know,
01:13:03
not so much. No, no. Yeah. Yeah. Abuse
01:13:05
is in there. All the bad things. And I'm
01:13:07
just being I've never been dishonest
01:13:09
with anyone in a podcast or a chat, Dom.
01:13:11
So,
01:13:12
>> you know, I'm so I'm happy to share this
01:13:14
with you. I uh I I don't want to be like
01:13:18
that, you know, and and no one likes to
01:13:19
no one wants to be like that. No,
01:13:21
>> you know, but but unfortunately that's
01:13:23
what that's what part of the uh return
01:13:26
is if you're going to go and be a dick
01:13:27
and you can't handle your drink. M
01:13:30
>> yeah it's it's rough though because it's
01:13:31
you do burn a lot of bridges I think
01:13:33
when you when you've got an addiction
01:13:34
and uh
01:13:36
>> um you know people should lean into you
01:13:39
but I suppose it becomes a point where
01:13:40
it's like no I've put my ore in that
01:13:43
water too many times my hands are washed
01:13:46
but if if you treat addiction like an
01:13:47
illness like cancer you wouldn't say
01:13:49
that to a person with cancer like nah
01:13:50
he's still got his cancer I've driven
01:13:52
him to hospital too many times I'm done
01:13:55
but I I understand it's way more nuanced
01:13:57
and complicated than that because um you
01:14:00
know you think that the the person with
01:14:01
the addiction issue should just be able
01:14:03
to stop and should just be able to act
01:14:04
like a normal decent human being. It's
01:14:07
tough though.
01:14:08
>> So this last time there was no there was
01:14:09
no particular moment. You just woke up
01:14:11
one day and was like no. Well, I I um
01:14:14
It's funny you say that because I uh
01:14:19
was smart enough
01:14:21
uh to realize that
01:14:24
>> I've been in that position that you're
01:14:26
just saying was there a moment
01:14:28
>> another rock bottom.
01:14:29
>> Yeah. I've been in that moment so many
01:14:31
times
01:14:32
>> that
01:14:33
>> I don't want to be in that position
01:14:34
again.
01:14:35
>> So I don't want to go to that moment. So
01:14:37
if I don't drink, that moment's not
01:14:40
going to come up again. if you don't
01:14:42
know what I mean, you know, and so so
01:14:44
that's I suppose it's growing up, isn't
01:14:46
it, mate?
01:14:47
>> Yeah.
01:14:47
>> You know,
01:14:48
>> but uh
01:14:49
>> it's a scary place to be, you know. It
01:14:51
really is.
01:14:52
>> What sobriety or
01:14:53
>> No, no. Being being drunk, you know, and
01:14:56
not knowing what what you've done. Um, I
01:14:59
I I've sort of because I've had that
01:15:02
poor press and that and I I got a I got
01:15:05
a good wake up that uh it doesn't matter
01:15:08
if you do a hundred nice things, you
01:15:10
know, if you do one bad thing, people
01:15:12
are going to draw reference to that more
01:15:13
than the other other stuff. Uh,
01:15:16
>> but that poor press, we'll get to that.
01:15:18
That's on the next card.
01:15:19
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, just
01:15:20
>> the controversy card. No,
01:15:22
>> that's cool. So, so just
01:15:26
>> I've cut out I I always used to think um
01:15:30
because of my shortfallings, you know,
01:15:33
uh I've got to help other people, you
01:15:35
know, sort of helps me. It's my medicine
01:15:37
is by helping other people that helps
01:15:39
me. But
01:15:42
that's actually quite a defeist sort of
01:15:44
attitude because if you're always trying
01:15:46
to put out fires and that sort of stuff,
01:15:49
you're not really grasping what you're
01:15:51
here for. And that's to
01:15:53
>> you know you know what I mean? It's like
01:15:55
>> yeah just to go along with that. So
01:15:59
>> I don't know where I'm going with that
01:16:00
but
01:16:00
>> have you have you have you ever seen a
01:16:02
therapist or you done any therapy? Like
01:16:04
there's got to be a reason that we that
01:16:05
you were attracted to drinking in the
01:16:07
way that you were like like trying to
01:16:08
like run away from something or trying
01:16:11
to escape from the reality of your life.
01:16:12
I don't know.
01:16:14
>> I think uh yeah definitely get away from
01:16:16
[ __ ] you know. Um it it it gives you
01:16:19
that sort of that heightened, you know,
01:16:22
that buzz. Uh quite often sports people
01:16:26
get a buzz out of playing sport. Uh and
01:16:29
they do everything 100 miles an hour,
01:16:30
whether it's drinking, partying, or or
01:16:32
playing sport
01:16:33
>> and it's just it's a flow on from that,
01:16:35
you know.
01:16:37
>> Yeah.
01:16:39
>> Well, I hope you never drink again.
01:16:41
>> Yeah. No, I'm a
01:16:42
>> But I I understand it's more complicated
01:16:44
than that and you might slip up and
01:16:46
>> that's fine, too.
01:16:49
>> Yeah. I don't I don't
01:16:51
I don't
01:16:53
I don't want to have a drink again.
01:16:56
>> Um
01:16:57
I uh you know, I value my life. I I I uh
01:17:02
I I gave up on life, Tom, a few years
01:17:04
ago and and thought I've had bad press.
01:17:07
I've had [ __ ] My health's been crap. Uh
01:17:11
my life is you know I didn't achieve
01:17:13
what I could have achieved. I've got no
01:17:15
money now. I'm broke. I you know what
01:17:19
I'm alive.
01:17:20
>> A mate of mine as I said when I came
01:17:22
here today mate of mine committed
01:17:24
suicide yesterday. You know and uh he's
01:17:27
never going to be able to to do what he
01:17:30
would if he was still alive now. You
01:17:32
know I've I've had so many friends that
01:17:35
I've known through football and and
01:17:36
through life that are no longer here for
01:17:39
whatever reasons. Um, you know, we I've
01:17:41
had friends who have died of AIDS in
01:17:43
Africa and I've had friends that have
01:17:45
been killed in car crashes, friends that
01:17:47
have had heart attacks and uh and
01:17:51
friends that have taken their own life.
01:17:52
A lot of sportsmen I know probably about
01:17:55
probably about seven or eight mates of
01:17:57
mine that have taken their own life
01:17:59
because they don't have the financial
01:18:01
backup and wealth and limelight that
01:18:04
they once had anymore and they can't
01:18:06
deal with that, you know. And uh I uh
01:18:11
you know so I've seen all that stuff and
01:18:14
and all I can say to you know from where
01:18:16
I'm sitting is you never get the
01:18:19
opportunity again if you take your life.
01:18:22
>> You know that's your last act.
01:18:23
>> Yeah. I mean I I should have died in a
01:18:25
car crash when I broke my neck. You know
01:18:27
I uh I'm lucky to be alive. I had a
01:18:30
heart attack and I was dead and then I
01:18:32
flatlined four times when I was in a
01:18:34
coma. You know I should I shouldn't be
01:18:36
here. So, you know, come on. You know,
01:18:39
look at yourself and think
01:18:40
>> maybe you should try a little bit harder
01:18:42
and be a bit more focused with,
01:18:44
>> you know, not trying to end your life.
01:18:47
>> [ __ ] You You must have been like a just
01:18:50
a phenomenal player. I'm just thinking
01:18:51
of like, so people that are selecting
01:18:53
you for a team, they're like, "Oh, yeah,
01:18:55
we've got Michaeling, but this is the
01:18:57
baggage he comes with." And they were
01:18:58
still giving you these opportunities
01:19:00
regardless. Like, you must have been
01:19:01
phenomenal. It's funny you say that
01:19:03
because uh I I never knew how good I
01:19:05
was, you know, and and I think I was
01:19:08
without being a dick, I think I was a
01:19:10
lot better than what I ever thought I
01:19:12
was.
01:19:13
>> I've played the game and you know, you
01:19:15
know, you show this confidence cuz
01:19:17
that's what you need to as a goalkeeper.
01:19:18
You need to portray a confident,
01:19:20
outgoing cockiness. Yeah, of course you
01:19:22
do.
01:19:23
>> Uh but um I never, you know, as I said,
01:19:26
I was always scared, you know. I was
01:19:27
always scared. And uh
01:19:30
it's it's it's it it's it's interesting
01:19:34
because yeah, I just
01:19:36
I don't
01:19:38
so many things could have been
01:19:40
different, you know, but uh but they're
01:19:43
not.
01:19:43
>> That's that's the way it goes.
01:19:45
>> Yeah. Yeah. It is what it is. E past is
01:19:48
the past.
01:19:49
>> Yeah. I heard in another podcast um
01:19:51
Jimmy Car, the comedian of all people
01:19:53
saying, um yeah, depression is
01:19:55
fantastic, isn't he?
01:19:56
>> He's he's marvelous. This is a serious
01:19:58
moment from him. He said um depression
01:20:00
is and it's it's very simplified but he
01:20:03
said depression is thinking about what's
01:20:04
already happened. Anxiety is worrying
01:20:06
about what's going to happen. Um so you
01:20:09
just have to like live in the present as
01:20:10
much as you can.
01:20:12
>> Um right
01:20:15
some some of the other controversies and
01:20:16
you've talked about this the bad pre bad
01:20:18
bad press as you've called it. So, in
01:20:20
2018, um, there was a TV and Zed news
01:20:22
report where six women said you obtained
01:20:26
more than $150,000 from them. Um, six is
01:20:30
a lot of women.
01:20:32
>> Yeah. I uh and and this is 100% honest,
01:20:36
mate. I um I was uh going through a lot
01:20:40
of poor health. Uh and I used to go on
01:20:45
dating sites
01:20:46
>> like Tinder Bumble.
01:20:48
>> Tinder and Bumble. Yeah. And uh I went
01:20:51
out with uh women um and I'd pay or they
01:20:56
would pay, whatever, and then I'd say,
01:20:57
"Well, I haven't I actually can't afford
01:20:59
to, but they would pay." And um and then
01:21:04
my wife and you know, went through [ __ ]
01:21:06
with me and and and I don't want to slag
01:21:08
off my ex-wife because, you know, I have
01:21:09
a beautiful child with her and that, but
01:21:12
she sort of instigated this, you know,
01:21:15
thing for a number of reasons. she
01:21:17
wanted to get back at me about and and
01:21:19
then I don't need to get into that. But
01:21:21
to cut a long story short,
01:21:24
a reporter rang up me, you know, and
01:21:28
started saying this and this and this.
01:21:29
You've gone out with these women. You've
01:21:31
taken money from them and and I said,
01:21:33
"No, I haven't. You know, I haven't at
01:21:35
all. I've uh had people who have paid
01:21:37
for me at times, and if I have money,
01:21:40
I'll pay. I'm I'm the first person to
01:21:42
put my hand in my pocket, and if I go
01:21:44
out with a group of people, I used to do
01:21:45
it all the time. I've got nothing to
01:21:46
show for it now because I used to spend
01:21:48
my money on all my mates, my guys and
01:21:50
girlfriends and that and uh and all that
01:21:52
stuff. But then it's interesting when
01:21:55
someone um
01:21:57
basically what it was is they went out
01:22:00
to get dirt on me and and as I said
01:22:04
before, Dom, I think I had I had mates
01:22:06
phone me up saying, "I've had a reporter
01:22:07
phone me up trying to get information
01:22:09
about you. Have you have you done
01:22:11
anything?" and and my ex-wife said it
01:22:13
was uh money that we lost on a house
01:22:16
because we she put money into buying a
01:22:19
house for us. I didn't have any money to
01:22:21
put down as a deposit. So, when we sold
01:22:23
the house, we ended up losing a h 100red
01:22:25
grand. Uh we bought in Teino. Do you
01:22:28
know where that is?
01:22:29
>> Takino? No. Where is that?
01:22:30
>> It's the middle of nowhere, mate. So, we
01:22:32
bought a house in the Ward in W Pukar
01:22:36
out that way, central Hawks Bay. Didn't
01:22:39
work out. But we ended up losing, you
01:22:40
know,und whatever grand.
01:22:42
>> So I have nothing to show for this money
01:22:45
that apparently of but that's you know
01:22:48
it's
01:22:48
>> it's it's not going to be a story unless
01:22:50
that something's
01:22:51
>> Yeah.
01:22:52
>> And and like and my lawyer said we could
01:22:54
we could do these people for defamation.
01:22:56
If I was such a bad people say you
01:22:58
should be locked up. If I'd been such a
01:23:01
bad person and done such awful things
01:23:04
then surely they would have held me
01:23:06
accountable and I would have had to pay
01:23:07
for it. But there was no story other
01:23:10
than this. And then when they rang me up
01:23:13
to fact fact check stuff and I said,
01:23:16
"What do you just do whatever you want
01:23:18
to do? Why? Whatever you want to write
01:23:20
for because you're going to do it
01:23:21
anyway."
01:23:22
>> You know, people that know me and, you
01:23:24
know, and care for me and love me, they
01:23:25
know what I'm like anyway. And uh
01:23:28
>> you know, a as I get older, like um the
01:23:31
older I get, the realize the less I
01:23:32
know. And I understand that things are
01:23:34
never black and white. Like there's
01:23:35
always this gray area. But um when
01:23:38
there's six women coming at you, that's
01:23:40
that's a big number.
01:23:41
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it was basically
01:23:43
just um there was one lady when I when I
01:23:46
started working for Idea Services, which
01:23:49
works with uh special needs kids. Um I
01:23:52
was seeing down a masters and and she
01:23:54
lent me 500 bucks, you know, to to to to
01:23:58
just, you know, buy food. And when I was
01:24:00
in my moved into the flat, I gave it to
01:24:02
her when I got my first pay. M
01:24:04
>> but she was one of the people that you
01:24:06
know said that I owed her money and and
01:24:08
it felt for me or to a lot of my friends
01:24:11
I haven't seen these these stories by
01:24:13
the way I never looked at them and and
01:24:15
my mom and that you know it it it
01:24:17
damaged relationships with family and
01:24:19
friends and brought shame on our family
01:24:22
you know and people were really
01:24:23
disappointed my grandmother was old
01:24:25
school you know and and it and it and it
01:24:28
was and and it nearly killed me um but I
01:24:31
um
01:24:33
I
01:24:34
I feel like I was hung out to dry and
01:24:36
just 90% of everything was just
01:24:40
[ __ ]
01:24:41
>> Uh but
01:24:43
whatever I wanted to come back with was
01:24:46
not going to get me any joy anyway. So I
01:24:49
just accepted. But like I said, six
01:24:51
women. I went out I went out with more
01:24:52
than six women, mate. But uh one was my
01:24:55
wife, one was this lady. and and they
01:24:57
were just I I honestly didn't feel as if
01:25:01
I ripped off anyone to be honest.
01:25:04
>> What do you think it is? Why did they
01:25:05
all have an act to grind then? Were you
01:25:07
drinking at the time and it was just
01:25:08
like messy relationships or
01:25:10
>> pretty much?
01:25:11
>> Yeah. Yeah. You know, sort of
01:25:15
being a womanizer, I suppose, when
01:25:17
you're you're going out with someone
01:25:19
having and having fun and realizing
01:25:21
that's actually not what you want. uh
01:25:23
and that person sort of oh well you know
01:25:26
I put a lot of into this and you haven't
01:25:28
returned the favor sort of thing as far
01:25:30
as uh you don't want me and uh
01:25:33
>> you know so I'll have a crack at you and
01:25:35
get back at you in some some form or
01:25:37
other you know
01:25:39
>> so so but that figure that they took
01:25:40
about 150,000 so say
01:25:42
>> blown away
01:25:43
>> absolutely blown I've never had any
01:25:46
>> so no loans or anything so is it like
01:25:48
you maybe you were living with them and
01:25:49
you weren't paying rent or something so
01:25:51
they work out a a Oh, no. I wasn't
01:25:53
living with any of these women. I had
01:25:55
>> one lady that was in there um lady that
01:25:59
I lived with in in uh Levin. I I paid
01:26:03
for her to live with me and and her
01:26:05
daughter also. And I paid for a trip one
01:26:07
one year. We went away with friends and
01:26:09
I paid for her and her daughter to to go
01:26:11
to Bali. He went to Bali for 3 weeks and
01:26:14
uh at the end of our relationship when
01:26:17
we split up um she reckoned that she had
01:26:20
a had a bill for $4,000 on a on a credit
01:26:24
card and she wanted me to pay for it.
01:26:26
>> And I said to her, "Wait a minute, what
01:26:28
about all the money I've spent?" So it's
01:26:30
like, you know,
01:26:34
>> yeah, I just think anyone that's
01:26:35
listening to this will will think you
01:26:37
must have to be the unluckiest [ __ ]
01:26:38
alive then if if none if if none of this
01:26:41
is true and you got these
01:26:42
>> Well, no. Well, it's,
01:26:45
>> don't get me wrong, it's not like they
01:26:47
haven't spent money on me, but I've done
01:26:48
the same thing.
01:26:50
>> I'm just not asking for a return for it.
01:26:52
It's like, Dom, I'll go out with you
01:26:53
tonight, mate. We'll go and we'll get on
01:26:55
the turfs and I'll I'll shout you
01:26:56
tonight. You can shout me next time. M
01:26:58
>> you know it's like I got I I really feel
01:27:01
as if I got a uh you know a bad hand
01:27:04
dealt to me and uh and but that sells
01:27:08
stories and you know I was speaking to
01:27:10
Dennis Katanos you know there
01:27:13
guy a good friend of mine who you know
01:27:15
who's a commentator on Sky and etc etc
01:27:18
and he said to me he saw that
01:27:20
documentary or that that article about
01:27:22
me and it was awful. He said it was,
01:27:23
"Oh, I felt so sorry for you." But he
01:27:26
said, "Uh,
01:27:28
I I've I've uh seen where reporters have
01:27:33
interviewed someone and then their
01:27:35
interview and the questions they asked
01:27:37
have been totally changed round to to
01:27:39
make out that your ex whatever, you
01:27:43
know, and and I and I just felt like I
01:27:46
uh I didn't get a fair sort of crack of
01:27:48
the whip sort of thing." I think that's
01:27:50
um yeah part of the reason for the
01:27:52
international rise of like podcasting in
01:27:54
recent years just because um the
01:27:55
mainstream media they have their sort of
01:27:57
agenda or their narrative and that's
01:27:59
what they want to follow.
01:28:00
>> Yeah.
01:28:00
>> So they might um ask you for your side
01:28:02
of the story but they've already got the
01:28:04
story
01:28:04
>> Yeah.
01:28:05
>> sort of narrated or the angle they want
01:28:07
to go with.
01:28:07
>> Yeah. 100%. And that's that's I mean but
01:28:10
I've seen it in sport all my life where
01:28:13
I've you know I've seen reports on games
01:28:15
that I've been at and watched
01:28:17
>> and the reporters done a report on the
01:28:19
game and I'm thinking what game were you
01:28:21
at you know so
01:28:24
>> so there was another story in 2018 same
01:28:26
year um about your relationship with an
01:28:28
85year-old livein woman.
01:28:30
>> Oh my gosh that's
01:28:32
love it to bits u a lady called Patty
01:28:35
and
01:28:35
>> so how old were you at the time? So
01:28:38
2018, so seven years ago. So you're 48.
01:28:41
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:28:41
>> 48. So she's 85. Yeah. Yeah.
01:28:43
>> Yeah. Patty um lives in Levin. Her her
01:28:47
husband had passed away. Um so I I was
01:28:50
selling real estate in living at the
01:28:52
time. So she used to get my I used to
01:28:54
have these two special needs, a couple
01:28:56
that used to each month my uh my zone
01:29:00
they would go and you know I do a
01:29:02
newsletter. It was pretty I used to put
01:29:05
a menu and have a interview someone you
01:29:08
know in the local community and you know
01:29:10
I used to love it you know but I was
01:29:11
probably ridiculously poor at doing it
01:29:13
but I used to have a thousand flyers
01:29:16
each month that would be handed out by
01:29:18
these friends um um each month and and
01:29:23
and I hund sorry a thousand households
01:29:26
and basically selling me as a real
01:29:29
estate agent and uh and having a bit of
01:29:31
a newsletter to go with it just to give
01:29:33
something to read. And um and this lady
01:29:35
called Patty phoned me up and said,
01:29:37
"Michael, my husband's passed away. Uh
01:29:40
you know, would you like to come and
01:29:41
chat to me about my house, what I should
01:29:42
do with it?" Patty was 35 years older
01:29:45
than me.
01:29:46
And from the first day I met her, fell
01:29:49
in love with her as as like a mother
01:29:52
type figure. And and she sort of, you
01:29:54
know, used to tell me about her
01:29:56
ex-husband used to be a boxer. English
01:29:58
guy came after these two little dogs.
01:30:00
And I used to I ended up telling her to
01:30:03
keep her house. She's got a beautiful
01:30:05
home. It's lovely here. Don't don't sell
01:30:07
it. Just, you know, just you know,
01:30:09
you're here. You've been here for the
01:30:10
last 50 years. You know, stick it. But
01:30:12
we became great mates. So when I left
01:30:15
Levven, even when I was in Levven, I
01:30:16
used to go and eat with her, she'd come
01:30:18
around to my flat. I'd go around and see
01:30:20
her. Um that person who did this this
01:30:24
interview or this story
01:30:27
tried to imply that uh that I uh
01:30:34
she tried to imply that I was having a
01:30:35
physical relationship with Patty. And I
01:30:38
said to her, she's like my mom, you
01:30:40
know, that's that's sick, you know. And
01:30:42
uh oh, it's just just ridiculous [ __ ]
01:30:46
you know.
01:30:47
>> Patty, when I was really unwell, Patty
01:30:50
helped me financially. She gave me
01:30:52
$8,000 in total.
01:30:54
>> Uh and that was to to say, I just want
01:30:56
to help you. And uh I never gave it back
01:30:58
to her.
01:30:59
>> We were best mates. I used to go and
01:31:01
stay with her at Christmas and New
01:31:02
Year's and and she would come and stay
01:31:04
at my place. Uh, and we were just like
01:31:07
a, you know, like a son and mom type
01:31:09
thing, you know, and that and that was
01:31:11
it. Uh, but her family
01:31:17
cut cut me off because they didn't like
01:31:21
that we'd become so close and Patty was
01:31:23
always on about me and that sort of
01:31:24
stuff. And they that was that that was
01:31:27
basically that they they approached
01:31:29
after seeing the article the first
01:31:31
article
01:31:32
>> they approached a reporter and said oh
01:31:34
he's taken money from this old lady part
01:31:36
of our family.
01:31:37
>> Yeah. In the article um it said um uh
01:31:40
records showed she transferred nearly
01:31:42
$20,000 to uting over the last couple of
01:31:44
years.
01:31:44
>> Yeah. It was nowhere near that. Yeah.
01:31:46
But uh but she she she helped me and uh
01:31:49
and if it wasn't for her, Dom, I'd be on
01:31:51
the street, you know.
01:31:53
>> I wasn't I was I was selling real
01:31:55
estate. You don't get paid if you don't
01:31:56
sell. And
01:31:57
>> I spent about in the space of two years
01:32:01
I I had like over 20 stays in hospital
01:32:04
with my heart issues and that. So Patty
01:32:07
was my lifesaver.
01:32:09
>> She was cool. We And I've got no bones
01:32:10
about telling people that.
01:32:12
>> Yeah. Is she Is she still alive now or
01:32:13
she passed away? She's down in she's in
01:32:15
a home now. She's she's got dementia or
01:32:18
dementia coming on. Um so they put her
01:32:20
in a home and the family have basically
01:32:25
said I can't have anything to do with
01:32:27
her. She phoned me for months. She used
01:32:30
to and I used to always love chatting to
01:32:32
her and that but then I said to her I
01:32:33
can't we can't
01:32:35
>> just not
01:32:37
you know like I said before I've cut out
01:32:38
a lot of people in my life uh because of
01:32:41
the you know the [ __ ] that came with it
01:32:43
you know I I love Patty to bits I love I
01:32:46
still love her to bits uh but uh but
01:32:50
yeah that's
01:32:51
>> Do you regret taking even if she was she
01:32:54
was offering it or almost forcing it do
01:32:55
you regret taking the money from her?
01:32:57
>> I do. Yeah, definitely now because but
01:32:59
at the time I I I
01:33:02
>> I had nothing. She wanted me to live
01:33:03
with her as well like she's going just
01:33:05
you can move into my flat or into one of
01:33:06
the rooms and I said I don't want to do
01:33:08
that but uh
01:33:09
>> but we had a relation she was my best
01:33:11
mate. She was actually my best mate for
01:33:13
years and
01:33:14
>> and it and it it broke my heart to have
01:33:17
to you know sort of close a door on our
01:33:19
relationship because we were
01:33:21
>> we were best friends. We used to play
01:33:23
back gaming together and go for walks
01:33:24
and
01:33:25
>> walk the dogs and
01:33:26
>> Yeah. I suppose um like for me sitting
01:33:29
here and I suppose anyone watching this
01:33:30
or listening to this will feel the same
01:33:32
way. My mom's in her 70s. She's she's
01:33:34
still sharp as attack, but if she formed
01:33:37
a relationship with a with a young dude,
01:33:40
>> I' i'd want to keep a close eye on it
01:33:42
and but I think I'd be okay with it cuz
01:33:43
I know my mom can make her own
01:33:45
decisions. But as soon as like financial
01:33:47
transactions were taking place, that's
01:33:48
when I'd be like, "Okay, something's not
01:33:50
quite right here." Do you know what I
01:33:52
mean?
01:33:52
>> Yeah. No, I I totally understand where
01:33:53
you're coming from. Um and and and just
01:33:55
to just answer like I just did.
01:33:57
>> Yeah.
01:33:57
>> Patty helped me out financially.
01:33:59
>> She was able to help me out and she
01:34:00
wanted to and and I didn't I didn't say
01:34:03
oh yeah give me money or anything like
01:34:04
that.
01:34:06
>> But when I was in a hospital and she
01:34:07
came to see me and she said look you
01:34:08
know how you going to pay you when I
01:34:10
said I don't know that. She goes let me
01:34:11
help you.
01:34:12
>> And she was in a position where she
01:34:14
could help me. I couldn't help myself.
01:34:16
>> And and she was my mate.
01:34:19
>> I would have done the same. I've helped
01:34:21
so many people in the past. I'm not
01:34:22
going to ask for anything back in
01:34:24
return, but but I'm being honest with
01:34:26
you. She uh
01:34:28
>> I love Patty to bits. You know, we had a
01:34:30
relationship that was like a a you know,
01:34:33
mother son
01:34:34
>> and uh and and she helped me when I was
01:34:38
going through tough times and
01:34:40
>> and if I and if she hadn't have helped
01:34:42
me, then I ended up would have been on
01:34:46
the street, you know. So, I'm very
01:34:48
fortunate to have had that the love and
01:34:51
support from her.
01:34:52
>> But, uh I hated the way other people try
01:34:56
to know sort of uh they were reporter
01:34:59
that did the article tried to uh to make
01:35:02
it a you know a lot
01:35:05
sort of negative I suppose. Yeah.
01:35:09
>> I'm not sure the right words but uh
01:35:11
>> but there was just a lot of love there
01:35:13
you know. So, I I miss Patty today to be
01:35:17
fair.
01:35:18
>> So, you're 55 now. Yeah. Um the rest of
01:35:21
your life, how do you how do you hope
01:35:23
that's going to look or how do you think
01:35:24
that's going to look?
01:35:25
>> I think um I uh the visions of grandeur
01:35:29
that I once had are probably behind me
01:35:31
now. But I uh
01:35:34
I just happy to be alive, you know, as I
01:35:37
said. Lucky to be alive.
01:35:38
>> Yeah. Very lucky. and and as I said
01:35:40
before,
01:35:42
the experiences and the people that I've
01:35:44
that I've met and had, you know, in my
01:35:47
sport and just getting around the world
01:35:48
and that, you know, let lets me tell a
01:35:52
story like I've spoken to you about
01:35:54
today. And uh
01:35:56
>> so I'm extremely lucky. Um
01:35:59
if I die tomorrow, you know, touch what
01:36:01
I won't, but uh
01:36:03
>> I'd be very thankful for the life I've
01:36:05
had.
01:36:05
>> Yeah. I um I still keep in touch with
01:36:10
mates that I grew up with at Noyo and
01:36:12
you know when I was a
01:36:13
>> 5-year-old kid and that I'm still match
01:36:16
with the you know the guys I grew up
01:36:17
with in school and that and they were
01:36:19
still in Wellington and you know and
01:36:22
it's amazing because you know they've
01:36:23
got the families and the picket fence
01:36:24
and that sort of stuff and I sort of
01:36:27
envy them for having that cuz I never
01:36:29
had that you know it's what you don't
01:36:31
have you always wanted and but I uh
01:36:34
I'm just quite content now. Even though
01:36:37
I haven't got the wealth or the, you
01:36:40
know, and I've had some poor press and
01:36:42
I've had a lot of [ __ ] I've also had a
01:36:45
wonderful life as well.
01:36:47
>> And I just think it's been appreciative
01:36:49
of, you know, of what what I have
01:36:51
achieved.
01:36:52
>> Um, I love people more than anything
01:36:55
else, Dom. And
01:36:56
>> yeah,
01:36:57
>> you know, I still keep in touch with,
01:36:59
you know, my Facebook. I've got, you
01:37:00
know, nearly 5,000 friends and or
01:37:03
acquaintances, but, you know, I'm still
01:37:05
mates with people I played football with
01:37:07
in Africa and,
01:37:08
>> you know, and I know that I want to get
01:37:10
get over there in the next couple years
01:37:11
when my health is better, visit my
01:37:13
father and and visit friends that are
01:37:16
that I've got relationships with that
01:37:20
started working together and they will
01:37:23
last a lifetime now. So, pretty lucky,
01:37:26
you know, and it's pretty cool.
01:37:28
>> Yeah. and your mental health these days.
01:37:29
How's that?
01:37:31
>> Yeah. No, good. Good. I um I I I've
01:37:35
never been diagnosed officially, but I
01:37:37
think I do have AD ADHD. A lot of people
01:37:39
have mentioned that. I
01:37:43
I um
01:37:45
how can I as far as relationships go? Um
01:37:49
I think I'm better just being by myself
01:37:51
now. You know, I've sort of
01:37:53
>> you you there's um you often need to
01:37:55
work on yourself before you're ready to
01:37:56
let someone else in.
01:37:58
Maybe there's work that you've been like
01:37:59
neglecting for years that and now's the
01:38:02
time to do that.
01:38:02
>> Well, I think a lot of that's got to do
01:38:04
with u people with that that have
01:38:07
issues.
01:38:09
>> They look at uh and you find this a lot
01:38:11
in rehab. You'll find a lot of people in
01:38:13
Alcoholics Anonymous or or NA Narcotics
01:38:16
Anonymous. they'll side with other uh uh
01:38:22
addicts, you know, and um it's probably
01:38:24
the last thing that they say you should
01:38:26
do because, you know, two people who
01:38:28
both have a have a have a problem
01:38:31
shouldn't be working together to sort of
01:38:33
to to sort it out.
01:38:35
>> I um but often they do. I uh you know
01:38:39
what getting back to what I was saying
01:38:41
before about what I've achieved and you
01:38:42
know and and sport and that in life
01:38:47
it's really you know providing obviously
01:38:49
Patty helped me financially for a time
01:38:51
so I value that but um
01:38:55
most of the stuff I've done in my life
01:38:57
it's it's all been on my own back
01:38:59
>> you know and that's that's generally
01:39:00
what we're going to
01:39:02
>> you know we'll get out what we put in
01:39:03
anyway in general but uh
01:39:06
>> yeah I just
01:39:08
just just happy to be me, you know, just
01:39:11
just I don't know what tomorrow brings,
01:39:13
but
01:39:14
>> I rather than thinking about tomorrow or
01:39:17
yesterday,
01:39:19
>> I'm quite happy in the now. Just
01:39:20
thinking about today, what's good for me
01:39:22
today like you know this morning I woke
01:39:24
up woke up and I was a bit didn't have a
01:39:26
great sleep because of my friend passing
01:39:27
you know committing suicide and
01:39:30
>> but I was really excited about coming
01:39:32
and speaking to you.
01:39:34
>> Were you Yeah. Were you nervous or just
01:39:35
excited? I'm not nervous at all, mate.
01:39:37
And uh I tell you, you like I said going
01:39:39
back to that Brazil game, you know,
01:39:41
before the Brazil game and coach goes,
01:39:43
"Do you want to say anything?" And I
01:39:45
remember in the toilets and Chris
01:39:46
Zorich, our captain was I think he was
01:39:49
throwing up in the toilet next to me. I
01:39:51
couldn't see him with cubicles and I
01:39:53
said to him, "Who's that?" He goes,
01:39:54
"Zoro." He goes, "Arts." I go, "What
01:39:56
man?" He goes, "You're going to have to
01:39:58
be bloody fantastic today, mate." And I
01:40:00
said, "Mate, I just played football for
01:40:03
the first time in two years the other
01:40:05
day." You know, how lucky am I to be
01:40:08
here, you know? It's like, go and enjoy
01:40:10
yourself, you know? You know, that sort
01:40:12
of things.
01:40:12
>> Yeah. So, I had um you know, Sir Steve
01:40:15
Hansen, the old black coach.
01:40:16
>> Yeah. Lovely guy.
01:40:17
>> I had him on the podcast recently and
01:40:18
he's got a he's got a theory and um the
01:40:20
more I think about it, I think it's true
01:40:21
that a person's um greatest strength is
01:40:24
also their greatest weakness.
01:40:26
>> Um yeah. What do you think yours would
01:40:28
be?
01:40:30
What? Greatest strength or greatest
01:40:31
weakness?
01:40:32
>> Well, he he reckons they often the same
01:40:34
thing.
01:40:35
>> Uh actually, yeah, you Yeah, I've never
01:40:39
thought of this, but uh I think my
01:40:41
greatest strength is my uh my people
01:40:43
skills.
01:40:44
>> I u I love to help people. Uh and that
01:40:47
and you know, we do these things, you
01:40:49
know, people say you help people for
01:40:51
you, not for the you're not getting
01:40:53
anything out of it. I get a reward out
01:40:55
of it by helping people. It's my
01:40:57
medicine. And uh that's probably my uh
01:40:59
biggest
01:41:01
uh positive.
01:41:03
>> But like you just said, that can work as
01:41:06
a negative because when people when you
01:41:08
when you when you give a little bit,
01:41:10
>> they can take advantage of you.
01:41:11
>> Exactly. And when you are and when
01:41:14
you're not continuing to uh they might
01:41:16
be upset with you for that, you know, if
01:41:19
that makes sense.
01:41:20
>> Yeah. No, it does make sense. What Well,
01:41:21
what would you have said? What would you
01:41:22
have said your biggest weakness or your
01:41:23
biggest flaw is or your worst habit?
01:41:25
Well, I think my my my biggest weakness
01:41:27
is probably uh
01:41:30
is giving too much of myself and and I
01:41:34
do get upset when people don't I mean
01:41:37
I'm the sort of guy that uh if he says
01:41:39
he's going to phone you, he'll phone
01:41:40
you.
01:41:41
>> I like to be on the phone talking to
01:41:42
mates and giving someone a call and
01:41:44
saying, "How's your day going?" and
01:41:45
checking up on people.
01:41:47
>> Uh so, so I like that. Um, I don't like
01:41:51
it when people sort of take and don't
01:41:52
give back,
01:41:53
>> you know, and and I always and I
01:41:56
actually get I probably get a bit
01:41:58
despondent when they do that.
01:41:59
>> I uh
01:42:01
>> Yeah, that that that's probably where
01:42:03
I'm at with that, I suppose. If that
01:42:05
makes sense.
01:42:05
>> Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I'm
01:42:06
probably much the same. Like I think my
01:42:08
uh greatest strength, if it's also my
01:42:10
greatest weakness, would be being a
01:42:12
people pleaser.
01:42:12
>> Yeah. You know, it's a really good
01:42:14
thing, but then it's like Yeah. You can
01:42:17
get taken advantage of. Well, Dom, the
01:42:20
one thing, yeah, you can because
01:42:23
>> it didn't matter, like I said before,
01:42:24
about the doing the the 100 nice things
01:42:26
and one negative thing. People are going
01:42:29
to harp on about the negative, you know,
01:42:31
and unfortunately that's that's life. I
01:42:33
mean, I spoke to um what's the cricket's
01:42:36
name? Jesse Ryder a few years ago and I
01:42:39
said to him, "Jesse, you're a few years
01:42:40
younger than me, but your career sort of
01:42:43
sort of emulates mine to a certain
01:42:45
degree because Jesse, after having a
01:42:48
chat with him and, you know, learning a
01:42:49
bit about him, he's just a good guy.
01:42:51
like to get on the piss and play a bit
01:42:53
of cricket, you know, but uh
01:42:55
expectations of him were so much
01:42:59
different because of his ability as a
01:43:00
cricketer and that was too much for him
01:43:02
to sort of take on and and and and to
01:43:04
live up to and he just didn't want to.
01:43:07
>> You know, not everyone wants to go and
01:43:08
be a role model. You know, I was someone
01:43:11
who
01:43:12
>> wanted to be seen to be doing the right
01:43:13
thing and do the right thing to everyone
01:43:16
or for everyone. Uh
01:43:19
but I didn't always achieve that. I
01:43:21
know. Yeah. Do you um do you still have
01:43:24
whatifs about your football career or
01:43:26
not? Really?
01:43:26
>> Yeah. Yeah. Big time. Big time. I uh and
01:43:29
that's basically, you know,
01:43:32
I used to think that we were from a
01:43:35
different world. You know, we're from
01:43:37
New Zealand, which is a, you know,
01:43:39
little speck in the South Pacific. Uh,
01:43:43
and there's no way that
01:43:46
I'll ever have the opportunity to
01:43:47
achieve what those guys are achieving,
01:43:49
you know, just, you know, never never.
01:43:52
>> But, um,
01:43:53
>> you just don't allow yourself to dream
01:43:54
that way.
01:43:55
>> Yeah. I can't play professional
01:43:57
football. I'm never going to play for
01:43:59
New Zealand. That sort of stuff. But,
01:44:00
you know, things are achievable. But,
01:44:02
but you need if you've got no one
01:44:04
telling you that, like my, it's funny. I
01:44:07
was talking to my mate Jeff Martin. He
01:44:09
and he's in Wellington and he's got a
01:44:10
family and lives in about a stone throw
01:44:13
from where we grew up. So he's never
01:44:15
really moved up. He's got the wife and
01:44:16
he's an accountant. And I said to him
01:44:18
once said, "Mate, this is probably, you
01:44:20
know, in the last couple years." I said,
01:44:22
"Did without sounding like a dick, but
01:44:25
did you guys think I was going to be any
01:44:27
good?" And he goes, "All of us, our
01:44:30
mates, it's like you were the freak, you
01:44:33
know? We all knew you were great." And I
01:44:35
said, "Wouldn't you [ __ ] tell me? Oh,
01:44:38
you wouldn't have listened at that age
01:44:39
anyway, would you?
01:44:40
>> I don't know. But not maybe, maybe maybe
01:44:43
not. But no one ever told me that
01:44:46
>> you you could be really good.
01:44:47
>> Do you think it was like easy come easy
01:44:49
go with talent?
01:44:51
>> Uh
01:44:53
people ask me that, you know, it's like
01:44:55
and you know, you having a talent, you
01:44:57
you can't be a great player without
01:44:59
talent.
01:45:00
>> Doesn't matter how hard you work. If you
01:45:01
don't have the have the talent, you're
01:45:03
not going to do it. You know, you've got
01:45:04
to have the you know, the other stuff
01:45:06
that goes with it. hand eye
01:45:07
coordination. Yeah. Natural
01:45:09
coordination, all that stuff.
01:45:11
>> Yeah. So, so you need that. So,
01:45:14
>> that's only going to get you so far
01:45:15
though, right?
01:45:16
>> Yeah. Exactly. I mean, I also,
01:45:19
you know, as much as I say I was a bit
01:45:20
of a slacker and I used to get on the
01:45:21
piss and that sort of stuff, mate. I
01:45:23
trained harder than anyone, you know. I
01:45:25
I trained really hard and uh you know be
01:45:29
doing you know thousand situps at a
01:45:31
training session that sort of stuff and
01:45:32
busting my guts and doing running doing
01:45:35
doggy sprints and that sort of stuff and
01:45:37
doing extra stuff and plyometrics and
01:45:40
that sort of stuff. So although I think
01:45:42
I probably underachieved, I still worked
01:45:46
bloody hard. You know, you have to to to
01:45:48
get to that level I got to.
01:45:50
>> Um but uh but as I said in the you a few
01:45:54
times now, my biggest uh
01:45:58
disappointment is that I u and and and I
01:46:02
believe that everything happens for a
01:46:03
reason, you know. So this is how it was
01:46:05
meant to go. So all the good and the bad
01:46:07
that I've been through, that's how I was
01:46:09
meant to go anyway. You can change those
01:46:12
things by acting in certain ways, but
01:46:15
generally your life will be planned out.
01:46:17
You know, the doors will open in certain
01:46:19
ways for you. But I uh but I Oh, what am
01:46:23
I saying? I just
01:46:28
I don't know. Just if I'd had someone
01:46:31
supporting me, I think I would have been
01:46:33
a lot different. And I and I've seen a
01:46:36
lot of people in sport and and life that
01:46:39
have achieved
01:46:41
um I had a mate of mine who who used to
01:46:43
play for Wellington cricket and I
01:46:46
thought he was a pretty average
01:46:47
sportsman but he was the captain of our
01:46:49
cricket first 11 at school and he was
01:46:51
the captain of the rep team soccer and
01:46:53
his dad was a big gun you know in
01:46:55
business and so he got all these sort of
01:46:58
uh backhanders I suppose to help him get
01:47:01
uh uh to a certain level but That's as
01:47:04
far as he could go because he didn't
01:47:06
have the rest, you know. I was lucky
01:47:08
that I had that little bit of icing on
01:47:10
top.
01:47:11
>> Uh
01:47:12
>> that X factor.
01:47:13
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah.
01:47:16
>> What about regrets?
01:47:17
>> U
01:47:21
Yeah. Just
01:47:24
a lot of things I I don't so much have
01:47:26
regrets as far as um
01:47:30
I can't change what's what's happened,
01:47:33
you know. I don't if I could I would
01:47:35
have. Yeah. I would have done a lot of
01:47:36
things different.
01:47:37
>> I would have made a lot of choices uh
01:47:39
different choices and u but uh but but I
01:47:43
don't regret what I've done because it's
01:47:45
given me the uh well that it's given me
01:47:49
the opportunity to sit down with you
01:47:51
today because of the choices I've made.
01:47:54
>> When was the last time you cried?
01:47:56
>> Uh I cried this morning actually.
01:47:58
>> Oh about you mate.
01:48:00
>> Yeah.
01:48:00
>> Yeah. Yeah. Oh, mate. I'm a shocker when
01:48:02
it when it comes to movies. Um,
01:48:05
>> I'll cry. I'll cry. If I don't fall
01:48:07
asleep, I'll cry normally.
01:48:09
>> I norally one or the other.
01:48:10
>> I normally Yeah, cuz working with
01:48:12
special needs kids. I often go to the
01:48:14
movies with them and uh we're normally
01:48:16
watching something which are,
01:48:17
>> you know, PG5 sort of thing, you know,
01:48:19
and uh and uh
01:48:20
>> some of those Pixar movies are very
01:48:22
emotional.
01:48:23
>> Yeah.
01:48:24
>> Like the the the old man and the boy in
01:48:26
the house with the balloons and up.
01:48:27
>> Oh, yeah. I know.
01:48:28
>> That gets me going every time.
01:48:30
But I but I um
01:48:33
>> m I'm a big softy, you know. you know,
01:48:35
my my uh the worst the worst thing about
01:48:39
that stuff, you know, with the the bad
01:48:41
press and and this is something that I
01:48:43
really want to let let you know about is
01:48:46
I've got big shoulders and as much as it
01:48:48
hurt me uh and and and it did really
01:48:51
scar me emotionally,
01:48:54
>> uh just the thought of what it did to my
01:48:57
my family and that that for me is
01:48:59
crushing. M
01:49:00
>> my grandmother's my grandmother was
01:49:03
married a couple of times and she put
01:49:04
two husbands, you know, in the ground
01:49:06
and and she was old school. I went to
01:49:08
visit her one day and she's like 80
01:49:10
years old and I've gone down to Christ
01:49:12
Church to visit her in the winter and uh
01:49:15
she's out the back her, you know, her
01:49:17
husband's in the side in front of the
01:49:18
fire and she's out the back chopping
01:49:21
wood.
01:49:22
>> She's 80 years old, you know, she's
01:49:24
amazing.
01:49:25
>> That's goals. That's what you want to
01:49:27
be. But she uh but I but I uh I let her
01:49:32
down,
01:49:33
>> you know, and uh
01:49:35
that that for me is a heartbreaker as
01:49:37
well.
01:49:38
>> How how close are you? If you had to put
01:49:40
a number on it, like between 1 and 10 or
01:49:42
one and 100 or whatever, how close are
01:49:44
you to being the best version of
01:49:45
yourself, you know, mental mentally,
01:49:47
spiritually, physically?
01:49:49
>> Um I think um in certain areas I'm I'm
01:49:53
I'm I'm doing very well. Uh, one of
01:49:57
those has just been uh my uh my
01:50:01
grounding now. I'm a lot more grounded.
01:50:04
I uh It's funny when you've got lots of
01:50:06
money and you've got all these things
01:50:07
and all these doors that can open and
01:50:09
all these people wanting a bit of you
01:50:10
and the phone never stops, you think
01:50:12
you, you know, you know, unbeatable. And
01:50:16
but when I get to where I am now after
01:50:19
being through all this [ __ ] I realize
01:50:21
that uh you know that the the the best
01:50:25
version of me is just a watered down uh
01:50:29
humble
01:50:30
uh I can still tell the stories on that
01:50:32
and think gosh, you know, I'm lucky to
01:50:34
be here. But but I uh my biggest joy is
01:50:40
is watching my daughter. You know, she's
01:50:43
my uh she's just the most amazing thing
01:50:45
I've ever imagined having in my life.
01:50:48
>> Yeah.
01:50:48
>> And uh you know, I coach kids still out
01:50:52
at West Oakland and and that's a huge
01:50:54
buzz for me,
01:50:55
>> but just being you know, just
01:50:59
just not having the highs and lows now
01:51:01
is probably the best thing for me now.
01:51:03
So, in a way,
01:51:04
>> keeping keeping things at a smooth five
01:51:06
out of 10.
01:51:06
>> Yeah. Not having the dramas is huge for
01:51:08
me now. And
01:51:10
>> and uh
01:51:11
>> you know, I've I've I've I've been
01:51:15
everything I've done has been uh and
01:51:18
everything that's happened to me has
01:51:19
been my doing. So, don't get me wrong,
01:51:23
all the good things that came my way
01:51:25
have been my doing, but all the bad
01:51:26
things have been my my doing as well.
01:51:29
>> Uh to a lesser extent. Uh I feel that uh
01:51:35
you know I could have done a lot of
01:51:36
things a lot differently
01:51:38
>> but that's life. So now just uh and as
01:51:42
far as like where am I at now with you
01:51:44
know with with how much of me is is a
01:51:46
positive. I uh going for walks with my
01:51:51
addict friend is a positive.
01:51:54
Coming home at night and having a quiet
01:51:56
night. You know I I go to bed early now
01:51:57
because I just normally get on my phone
01:51:59
and watch a bit of YouTube. play some
01:52:00
marjon on loan and and just and just
01:52:04
have a really really easy going
01:52:06
distance, you know. Yeah. I don't go
01:52:08
out. I don't go out at all.
01:52:10
>> Well, it seems like in the in in a past
01:52:12
life you were attracted to the chaos and
01:52:14
it it didn't serve you well.
01:52:16
>> Well, I think it's I think what it was,
01:52:18
Dom, is um more than anything was this
01:52:21
loneliness. You know, I think
01:52:23
>> you know, when you're lonely and you're
01:52:24
playing sport and you've got lots of
01:52:26
money and uh you know, the people that
01:52:28
you know, the hangers on and that sort
01:52:30
of stuff aren't probably good for you.
01:52:32
You know, it's funny guy. I uh I'm still
01:52:35
mates with a girlfriend that I had in
01:52:37
South Africa. We used to go to church
01:52:38
together on a Sunday to one of these big
01:52:40
happy clappy churches. We used to have
01:52:42
these flags and I can't even remember
01:52:44
what denomination it was. But we used to
01:52:45
go and and pray and and jump around and
01:52:49
I only went because I met her, you know,
01:52:51
it was beautiful and I thought, well,
01:52:53
play my cards right and keep going to
01:52:54
church. I might get a date and we ended
01:52:56
up going out for a while and then I left
01:52:58
South Africa and didn't go back. But she
01:53:01
contacted me years later probably about
01:53:04
10 years ago and we're still good mates,
01:53:06
you know. So, as I said before about,
01:53:09
you know, people and relationships, I've
01:53:11
been pretty lucky with with what the
01:53:13
sports given me.
01:53:15
>> Yeah.
01:53:16
>> Are you someone you'd want to go and
01:53:17
have a coffee with?
01:53:19
>> Uh,
01:53:21
let me put that. Are you Are you proud
01:53:22
of yourself?
01:53:24
>> Yeah, I am. Yeah.
01:53:26
>> Although I've been through [ __ ] Um, and
01:53:29
I've it nearly killed me. I nearly felt
01:53:32
I should take my own life. Then I
01:53:34
thought, well, if I take my own life,
01:53:36
who's missing out on me?
01:53:39
>> And first and foremost is my daughter.
01:53:41
Uh my family. Um
01:53:45
I've had [ __ ] in my life. So all I can
01:53:49
do is is today try to be cool guy and
01:53:53
try to be a nice guy and supportive and
01:53:55
loving and uh and then do the same
01:53:57
tomorrow. And if I can eliminate the
01:54:00
things that hinder that that opportunity
01:54:04
like the drinking and that
01:54:06
>> then I'm doing okay, you know. I think
01:54:08
now a thing a big thing for me is not
01:54:11
expecting too much, you know. And uh
01:54:14
>> and the little things in in life are are
01:54:17
worth a lot.
01:54:20
>> Well, thanks for the chat today. Um it's
01:54:22
been almost two hours. Um people can
01:54:25
listen to this or watch this and they'll
01:54:26
make their own mind up about you. Um,
01:54:28
but I find if you have a conversation
01:54:30
with that sort of length of time with
01:54:31
someone, like it's it's hard to hide the
01:54:33
real person.
01:54:35
>> Yeah.
01:54:36
>> Yeah. I hope it's been okay. I mean, I
01:54:38
think Yeah, I've been I've been I've
01:54:40
really enjoyed it today. Thank you.
01:54:41
>> Yeah, it's been great. I hope it's been
01:54:44
Yeah, I'm sure some of the stuff hasn't
01:54:45
been nice to reflect on, but um
01:54:47
hopefully some of it has been awesome as
01:54:49
well.
01:54:49
>> Yeah. Well, well, people, a couple of
01:54:51
friends, uh, said to me, look, you know,
01:54:54
make sure you have a chat with Dom and
01:54:56
say, you don't want to talk about this,
01:54:57
you don't want to talk about that, cuz
01:54:58
that's in the past. You don't want to
01:54:59
bring it up. And I said, but that's he
01:55:01
wants to talk about my life, so that's
01:55:02
part of my life. So,
01:55:04
>> you know, I can't be, you know, all
01:55:06
flowers and lovely perfume and all that
01:55:09
sort of stuff. It's,
01:55:10
>> oh, that's not life. That's not life.
01:55:11
>> No.
01:55:12
>> Um, yeah. And I think, um,
01:55:14
>> yeah, people appreciate that. People
01:55:16
appreciate that vulnerability and that
01:55:17
honesty.
01:55:18
>> Thank you. Um, yeah. So, thanks for
01:55:20
being here today.
01:55:21
>> Good, man.
01:55:21
>> And, um, yeah, good luck with the
01:55:23
sobriety.
01:55:24
>> Yeah. Yeah.
01:55:24
>> Day by day, mate. Day by day.
01:55:26
>> Good on you, mate.
01:55:27
>> Yeah.
01:55:27
>> Appreciate it.
01:55:27
>> Cheers, Mike.
01:55:28
>> Good, man. Thanks.
