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kiwi's Love at
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First like Finn we're making
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waves generate switch online
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[Music]
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today niso the voice of rugby welcome to
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my podcast thank you Dom it's a real
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pleasure to be here mate mate it's been
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um it's been an enjoyable day I I picked
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you up the airport with a a homemade
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sign yeah I know that was fantastic um
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was it well yeah I was a little bit
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worried about other people at the
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airport saying who the hell was
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isbo yeah and to be fair my art skills
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so did the NB and then instead of the O
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I did what is supposed to be a rugby
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ball but it looks like some sort of
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produce yeah look I thought it was
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pretty clever and uh what's the word
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Innovative Innovative Innovative yeah
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and some hashtags down the bottom 350
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goat and voice of rug
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thought that counts yeah um so more live
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all black games than anyone else on the
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planet yeah I mean it's it's crazy to
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think about it but I guess it's a bit of
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a Triumph of Longevity if you're around
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long enough and they like you long
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enough uh eventually these things will
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come to you and the other thing too you
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got to remember that while the All
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Blacks have only played um 649 test
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matches and I've done over half of them
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you've got to remember that in the in
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the I was going to say the olden days
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but in former years they only played
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three or four a year if if at all I mean
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I don't think they played during the war
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for instance so and today they play up
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to 15 test matches a year and if you get
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to do maybe 10 or 11 of those boy
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they're going to add up in a hurry and
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you you log them in like notebooks I've
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had an A5 textbook um I usually get
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about four or five seasons in each and I
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think I've now got about seven or eight
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of these things uh um and it's really
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used as a reference I'll go back and
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look at test match that might have
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happened seven or eight years ago and
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find that the referee who's doing the
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game on Saturday at Eden Park is the
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same bloke who did the same two teams at
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Twickenham back in N or 2018 or
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something and know just silly stuff um
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but it's good for me it's good for it's
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my own little uh reference a lot of
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people might go back to the rugby
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Almanac or they may go to the Internet
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or whatever I just have my own little
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quirky thing that I do after every test
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match and you've done that from test
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number one or is really yes I have why
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did why did you think to start it at
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test number one I don't know I don't
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know that's too long ago to even
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remember I think it was just to keep
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just to keep a record and you find some
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interesting things in there you you know
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you find when the guy made his debut for
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instance which you can find elsewhere I
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suppose but I've got a a Sure Fire
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reference whether he came off the bench
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uh I always write the opposing team down
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too which is interesting if it's Italian
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or Argentinian it doesn't mean a hell of
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a lot to me even sort of 10 years ago
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but yeah it's just my own little quirky
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thing I guess they've got to end up in
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Te Papa one day don't they yeah wow yeah
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well I've actually been I've actually
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been asked to uh and I've managed to
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keep a couple of World Cup final sheets
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um because when I do a game I obviously
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write the two teams out and um and the
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the referee and then a whole lot of
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little bits underneath each player and
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um I've been asked a couple of times
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whether I've still got those sheets I've
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actually got and I don't normally keep
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them but I've got the 211 World Cup
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final and the 215 World Cup final so um
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yeah they're of some interest I guess
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well what about other memorabilia like
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have any players given you socks shorts
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jerseys no you don't have like a pool
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room at home well no I'm I'm lucky
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enough um when I did my 250th I was uh
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that's quite a good story actually
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because it was in Wellington and um on I
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think the Thursday I got a call from one
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of the producers at Sky and they said to
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me we need you down at the
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Intercontinental in Wellington because
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we need to talk to the all black Captain
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Richie mcco and I'm thinking to myself
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that's a wee bit strange normally these
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things are jacked up prior and you don't
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normally get a late call up to do an
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interview anyway I I put my Glad Rags on
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and shot down there and we're all
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sitting down ready to roll and I I said
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uh okay said to the cameraman ready to
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go and and he looked a bit hesitant next
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thing uh Richie who sitting oh AC cross
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from me produces an all black jersey
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signed by all of the All Blacks uh and
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he presented it to me and and I don't
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think the interview actually happened um
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it was just a it was just a ruse to get
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me there and it was so it was a lovely
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it was a lovely touch or what I was
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going to say and that that's now been
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framed and my 300th uh which um I think
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also was in Wellington um um I got asked
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by the All Blacks I think Steve Hansen
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was the coach at the time and he said
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we'd like to make a presentation after
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the game in the in the all black
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dressing room and it's a place I've
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never been before I had the opportunity
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in 1996 when they won a series in South
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Africa uh the media was invited into the
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dressing room and I actually declined on
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the basis that the all black dressing
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room is for all blacks and I've never
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been an all black so um when the request
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came in 28 from Steve Hansen I said to
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Justin Marshall I said mate I'm not
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going to go in there unless you come
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with me and he said sure I'll come with
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you I said well you know the lay of the
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land and you know you you've been an all
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black so that was a nice little thing
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and what I was coming around to was the
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fact that that jerseyy is also framed so
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in terms of
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memorabilia um I've got those two framed
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in on the wall at home so I'm so so
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please say that story about mcco
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presenting you at Jersey is something
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else by the way that's amazing and um I
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I yeah I heard about you um you know
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wanting to have these these boundaries
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in place and this this refusal to go
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into the dressing room CU you and I'm so
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pleased that to hear that you have been
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in there even if it was escorted by um
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the great Justin Marshall because yeah I
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wonder if you you know in years from now
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when you stop playing if you regret
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missing out on some of these moments no
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I don't think so I don't think so I mean
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I've always regarded um all blacks are
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on a bit of a pinnacle to me and uh even
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though I've dealt with so many of them
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over the years if you've earned the
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right to be an all black youve earned
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the right to be in the all black
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dressing room and I just see it's it's
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the inner sanctum it's the holy of
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holies and I don't I wouldn't feel
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comfortable in there if it was just at
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the end of 96 John Hart was good enough
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to invite everyone so all the media
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piled in there but I sort of stood on my
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stood on my dignity and said well I'm
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not going I'm not going in there I don't
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know it sounds a bit stupid I know but I
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I just didn't um but as I said I
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insisted that Justin come with me in 28
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because he was a guy he was a guy who
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belonged in there yeah God all these
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coaches over the years must be like God
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that nisb is a
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snob what what about in um like 2011 you
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know John ke was hanging out there with
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Max yeah you know come on they haven't
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played for the All Blacks either just a
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personal well I don't think we got the
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invite in 211 to be honest
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um uh so I had the invite come I I don't
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know really I mean because it was a it
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was home uh sometimes when you're away
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from home and there's not many kiwis
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around like in 96 I sure there were a
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few supporters and what have you but um
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you know it's a we different when you're
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away from home I remember back in ' 85
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in in Argentina the only time I've been
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on an all black bus uh was because sir
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Brian lore one of the great fellas of
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rugby great rugby player terrific coach
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um he said to the media look boys there
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aren't many of you and there aren't many
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of us we're a long way from home and uh
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we would like you to come on the on the
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team bus to training um where you sit
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and all the rest of it is kind of up to
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you so we accepted the invitation and I
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was quite happy to because Argentina
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back in ' 85 seemed to me like it was
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Worlds Away um and uh so that was the
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only time I've been on an all black
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bus wow good
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experience yeah nobody says much I mean
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that seems to be what all black buses
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are like I I don't know whether anyone
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had ear phones on in those days um but
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no one said much because rugby and it
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still is um was a pretty uh a pretty
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important business and you didn't talk
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small talk you know if you were going to
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training you were focused on training
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and uh and at the end of it of course um
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you're probably a bit stuffed anyway but
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I don't remember who I sat next to
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whether it was a player or whether it
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was just another member of the media or
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whatever um so yes so six years ago when
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you made it to 300 did you did you think
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you you'd still be here 6 years on so
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you were 67 when you made 300 tests now
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at 73 350 did you imagine back then
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you'd be no probably not um I mean
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they're only they're only numbers aren't
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they I guess um it takes a long time to
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do 50 test matches because as I said um
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you you probably have to go five years
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and so I'm probably thinking
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6772 probably too old by then um so
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didn't enter my thoughts to be honest
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and what about career goals from
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here um well I've got another year to go
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uh with sky and I'm looking forward to
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that and then um who knows after that I
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mean um bloke will be 74 on boxing day
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so I'm not getting any any younger and
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uh you know often these decisions that
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aren't made by you anyway they're made
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by the by the people who employ you
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quite clearly but um look if you're
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enjoying something and when you get up
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in the morning you want to do it uh and
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you're able to do it you
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know it's not a bad it's not a bad way
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to go [ __ ] I'll tell you what there'll
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be your backlash if they don't renew
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I'll be I'll be starting up a change.org
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petition well I mean you got to I mean
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it's a partnership quite clearly it's a
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partnership and if I decide at the end
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of next year that I've probably had
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enough um it's it's it's the end of
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Sky's current contract and of course now
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looking at renewing and looking at
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different competitions and all sorts of
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things so who knows it might be a nice
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sort of clean cut clean Point um but you
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know that's 12 months down the track so
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let's worry about it when we get there
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okay I want to go back and um talk about
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your career beginnings and in particular
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what the media landscape looked like in
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like the late 60s early 70s but first of
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all um well we might as well rip the
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bandaid off now um You Grant this bit
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are a recidivist when it comes to um
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being nude in hotel uh lobbies oh my God
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yes yes not once but twice but twice
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Christ Church and Sydney yes exactly and
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and I tell you what I listened once to
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Henry blofeld the great English Cricket
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commentator I heard Henry speaking about
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it happening to him and I thought no
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that cannot happen you are handling I'm
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not saying you're lying but you are
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handling the truth carelessly and um and
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I sort of took it with a grand assault
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and thought that honestly can't happen
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adding a bit of text to a story that
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damnn well can happen and uh it happened
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to me in Sydney the first time yes
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correct I was over there in my latter
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days with TV andz can't remember the
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reason why they did but they sent me to
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Sydney and Brent Todd as well and we
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were covering a Warriors game at Manley
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and we came back and and toddy said we
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better have a couple of beers there was
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a par there was a bar straight over the
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road and I actually had to get up early
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because you know the early flight out U
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from Sydney to Wellington meant you had
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to be at the airport by about 7 or
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something and I cont cont plated the
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idea of um staying up all night um but
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but I obviously abandoned that idea at
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about 3:00 in the morning and decided to
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go to my room which was 29 stories up
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and um anyway so I presumably I went to
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sleep and I woke up as one does
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sometimes needing to go to the toilet
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next thing I find myself totally nude
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standing in a corridor 29 stories up of
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the Sydney hotel but but and I was lucky
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outside the door was the Sydney Morning
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Herald for Saturday and it's a big
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Sydney Morning Herald so I gave it the
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big
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wraparound and thinking now I'm going to
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have to go down to reception and uh and
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plead my case but even better when I got
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to the lift there was a phone so rang
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reception so I got out that one scotf
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free but not so lucky in Christ Church a
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few years later when I was having a few
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beers after a game with um Mex and same
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thing happens when when I get outside
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when I'm in the corridor star naked
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there's no paper when I get to the lift
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there's no door there's no phone so I
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had to give it the old the two hands two
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very big hands very generous hands and
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and I'm standing there at reception and
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quite often it's not manned at that time
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in the morning and I'm seeing people
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walking
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past obviously looking in thinking
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what's happening here so I've had a I
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was going to say a good experience and a
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a bad experience they're probably both
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bad experiences but one was better than
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the other one was more yeah the the
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cross one the latter one when when did
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what year was that oh I'm thinking
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probably 15 years ago maybe so you you
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were proper famous at the time oh well
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yeah even more famous um those doors why
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do they shut so alarmingly quickly
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though right yes yes I know it's a
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security thing about well the thing is
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you're struck you're stuck you don't
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know who your next door neighbor is you
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can't bang on the door at 3: in the
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morning and say can you help me out here
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because you don't know who they are yeah
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oh yeah it's a shocker it's a shocker
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all right hey let's go back thanks for
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sharing those but you're not the first
00:14:07
you won't be the last um so career
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Beginnings so um yeah Summer of 69 is
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when you started them broadcasting y um
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Brian Adams got his first real six
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string you got your St in radio um what
00:14:19
are your even before that what are your
00:14:21
earliest um like memories of you know
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the radio and sports commentary growing
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up was that a time where they talked in
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like like funny like over the top almost
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um yeah yeah you know how things are
00:14:32
quite colloquial now a damn good
00:14:33
question um sports for I used to listen
00:14:36
to they used to call it Sports Roundup
00:14:39
which was on the YC Network and that was
00:14:41
a something that happened during the
00:14:43
summer where they used to go to a lot of
00:14:46
venues um they used to cover all the
00:14:48
planket shield matches if there was a
00:14:50
big tennis tournament on if the New
00:14:51
Zealand rowing Champs were on and it was
00:14:54
called Sports Roundup so as a kid
00:14:56
growing up I used to listen to this um
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and then of course it became reality as
00:15:02
I got older but um I mean radio was very
00:15:05
different in those days uh um one of my
00:15:08
heroes and he just passed away recently
00:15:10
was Lindsay yo on 2zb and bazo bamble
00:15:15
and uh and all this sort of stuff I'm
00:15:17
not sure that I was big into music
00:15:20
listening to music stations I was
00:15:22
probably more into talk you I wasn't
00:15:24
talk back in those days either was it so
00:15:26
I was pretty much listening to the
00:15:27
announcer talk but yeah we all I mean
00:15:30
we'll get to this I guess shortly but
00:15:32
we're all pretty much BBC type training
00:15:35
so when you listen back now to uh to
00:15:37
radio in the 60s or 50s and 60s
00:15:39
everyone's rolling you know um how now
00:15:42
brown car you know everyone sounding
00:15:44
like BBC announcers which I did too for
00:15:47
a couple of years um so that I mean I
00:15:49
was just I was just an aid sports fan if
00:15:52
you put any sport on on radio I'd be
00:15:54
listening to
00:15:55
it yeah so I'm guessing like you you
00:15:59
would have grown up with like rugby like
00:16:00
I've seen Clips online of um you know
00:16:02
rugby comment and there's like classical
00:16:03
music playing in the background and the
00:16:05
commentator be like oh there there's
00:16:06
Napp the brown fellow with the ball yeah
00:16:09
like that's that that would have been
00:16:11
like I suppose your experience of like
00:16:12
Rugby Commentary growing up well Wist
00:16:14
the mcarthy was in his prime when I was
00:16:16
growing up and I never really got to
00:16:19
meet meet the guy but then when he
00:16:21
retired there was another guy who was in
00:16:23
Oakland called Bob Irvine and they used
00:16:26
to go on all black tours Long all black
00:16:28
tours so if they went to um South Africa
00:16:30
they' broadcast all 30 odd games I guess
00:16:35
and my old man used to wake me up with
00:16:38
my little transistor he'd wake me up at
00:16:40
3: in the morning to listen to the test
00:16:41
matches in South Africa or listen listen
00:16:44
to the test matches from the UK um and I
00:16:47
guess that a lot of guys of my age of
00:16:50
course no TV around in those days a lot
00:16:51
of guys of my age who be doing exactly
00:16:53
the same thing being woken up by their
00:16:56
by their dads or their Ms uh and getting
00:16:58
a trans sister and and listening to the
00:17:01
rugby commentaries in the middle of the
00:17:03
night yeah what were your can you
00:17:05
remember what your dreams or aspirations
00:17:07
were when you first started in broadcast
00:17:09
media 55 years ago well you you kind of
00:17:11
foreseen that you'd still be going now
00:17:13
and no of course not no of course not
00:17:15
well I mean I was going to otago
00:17:18
University I was all when I left school
00:17:20
I wanted to be involved in sport in some
00:17:22
way and uh and What attracted me was the
00:17:26
PE uh three-year degree from otago
00:17:30
University and so I applied and I'd
00:17:33
actually been accepted to go to otago
00:17:35
university I think I actually had a
00:17:38
flight uh booked my parents obviously
00:17:41
did for me to go down there but by some
00:17:44
quer of fot we had a nextdoor neighbor
00:17:47
who was very friendly with a guy called
00:17:49
Sir Lance cross who was a powerful man
00:17:51
in New Zealand sport in those days Not
00:17:53
only was he head of the nzbc he was on
00:17:56
the ioc he was head of New Zealand
00:17:58
basketball he was just about Mr sport in
00:18:01
New Zealand anyway this neighbor of mine
00:18:03
said if you'd like to say stay in sport
00:18:06
and maybe working broadcasting in sport
00:18:09
I'll get you um a chat with um Mr Cross
00:18:13
so I had a chat with Mr Cross and Mr
00:18:15
Cross uh said yeah you sound like an
00:18:17
enthusiastic young guy I'll I'll get you
00:18:19
to talk to a the Personnel officer at
00:18:22
the nzbc so I went and had a check to Mr
00:18:25
Barnes still remember his name Mr Barnes
00:18:29
and um we had a bit of a yarn and uh 3
00:18:32
or 4 days later Mr Barnes sent me a
00:18:34
letter and said you are now um have been
00:18:37
accepted as a Cadet sports reporter at
00:18:41
the nzbc so that's out went the out went
00:18:44
the possible degree at otaga University
00:18:46
iname sports
00:18:48
broadcasting and the rest is history oh
00:18:50
before you became um like the um the the
00:18:53
voice of rugby um you you did a bunch of
00:18:56
other stuff the way including the
00:18:57
Olympics 76 and 80 Olympics yes yes uh
00:19:01
yeah 76 was um was in Montreal uh and I
00:19:04
went with a a team of guys and I spent
00:19:06
the whole just about the whole two and a
00:19:08
half weeks or two weeks or whatever it
00:19:10
was doing boxing and we only had two
00:19:12
boxes but I went to the boxing venue
00:19:14
every day and it was a golden time for
00:19:19
USA boxing they had the Spinx Brothers
00:19:21
they had uh uh sugar eight Leonard um
00:19:25
and others you know so it was a great
00:19:26
experience for me uh so into but 1980
00:19:29
was a very different situation because
00:19:32
that was the Olympic games that we
00:19:34
boycotted malun said no we're not going
00:19:37
to send an official team because he
00:19:39
sided with the I think it was the um
00:19:42
Americans over Afghanistan it was it was
00:19:44
a political isue anyway so we didn't
00:19:46
send an official team but um and I was
00:19:50
due to go with um let's say a team of
00:19:52
five or six other
00:19:54
broadcasters um but a few Renegades I
00:19:57
guess you could call them said well
00:19:59
we're not going to go as official New
00:20:00
Zealand Representatives but we are going
00:20:01
to go to the Olympic Games anyway and
00:20:04
and so we when I say we New Zealand had
00:20:07
about six other competitors there so um
00:20:11
they decided for whatever reason that I
00:20:12
was then going to be the only
00:20:14
broadcaster to be sent from New Zealand
00:20:17
so they then had to approach the Russian
00:20:20
Embassy in Wellington to see if they'
00:20:23
get me a visa to get into into Moscow
00:20:26
and they refused they said um no you
00:20:28
can't because uh New Zealand is
00:20:30
officially not going to be there so
00:20:31
therefore we're not going to Grant you a
00:20:34
Visa so Radio New Zealand said well uh
00:20:37
said to me well look what we'll do is
00:20:39
we'll send you to
00:20:40
London we're sure we'll set we'll sort
00:20:42
this out it won't be a problem
00:20:44
eventually we'll send you to London and
00:20:46
you wait there and when we get the visa
00:20:48
and everything you you just head off to
00:20:50
Moscow and I'm thinking you know and of
00:20:52
course this is when the um the Iron
00:20:54
Curtain was still up and me and Moscow
00:20:57
my own that didn't appeal much so anyway
00:20:58
off I went to London and um two or three
00:21:01
days there and they came back and they
00:21:03
said no they absolutely refused to give
00:21:05
you a Visa but we've arranged with the
00:21:07
BBC for you to cover the Olympic Games
00:21:09
from
00:21:11
London I thought um that's a great
00:21:14
result i' never been to London before
00:21:15
great City and all that and so there I
00:21:17
am and uh got great cooperation out of
00:21:19
the BBC Bush house which is the overc
00:21:22
service of the BBC um and had a great
00:21:26
time had a great time um and
00:21:29
if they wanted um their reporters to
00:21:32
interview a kiwi in in Moscow I could
00:21:35
say you couldn't have a chat to Ian
00:21:37
Ferguson the canist who was one of the
00:21:39
bles who went uh that would be nice and
00:21:41
um so they'd send it to London idd on
00:21:43
send it to New Zealand um so in the end
00:21:46
it was a great result but it was quite
00:21:48
bizarre when you think about it yeah
00:21:50
that's a really bizarre experience and
00:21:52
what was the media landscape like then
00:21:54
so 7680 is it was it just one TV channel
00:21:56
or two TV 1 TV2
00:21:59
um good question yeah I think that would
00:22:01
have been pre- TV3 eh uh yeah certainly
00:22:04
yeah um what happened I think in 75 was
00:22:07
that the governor of the day decided to
00:22:11
produce two channels and I think South
00:22:13
Pacific TV came in and so we had this
00:22:16
bizarre situation in a country of how
00:22:18
many million those days probably about
00:22:20
four where we had two two channels both
00:22:24
state-owned um campaigning against each
00:22:27
other in fact we had two different um
00:22:29
sporting organizations I wasn't really
00:22:32
involved because I was still in radio
00:22:34
but it was it was kind of a crazy in
00:22:37
those days yeah and I love um reflecting
00:22:40
on this because it just points out um
00:22:42
just just how long you've been doing
00:22:44
this and just how much change you've
00:22:45
seen in that time like it's it's it's
00:22:48
baffling really yeah it is it is um some
00:22:52
things some things don't change a great
00:22:55
deal um I mean Sky TV came along I think
00:22:59
in the
00:23:01
1990 um which meant that TV andz had an
00:23:05
absolute Monopoly on Rugby coverage so
00:23:09
much so that um I mean we expect to see
00:23:11
every game these days don't we and but
00:23:14
back in those days TV and Zed only
00:23:16
played one game in a weekend and so for
00:23:20
instance these days you've got the NPC
00:23:22
running and there's say seven or eight
00:23:24
games TV andz would only pick one game
00:23:27
and uh
00:23:29
and so when Sky came along and and won
00:23:31
the rugby rights in 1996 and probably
00:23:33
one of the reasons they got the rugby
00:23:35
Rights was they said we're going to
00:23:36
change the landscape here we're going to
00:23:38
cover every single game uh which was a
00:23:41
huge undertaking and it continues to be
00:23:43
a huge undertaking but um yeah that's
00:23:46
what happened in in the T in tvnz days
00:23:50
in my time that we covered one game yeah
00:23:53
how do you feel about the um the current
00:23:54
state of the media landscape and yeah
00:23:56
what do you what do you do you have any
00:23:57
predictions or thoughts about the future
00:24:00
um what do you reckon as the great
00:24:02
cockroach the great yeah the great
00:24:04
Survivor look I I know it's tough out
00:24:07
there and and we all know what's
00:24:09
happening in the news areas and all the
00:24:11
rest of it um and and people now have to
00:24:14
pay to watch their sport you know in the
00:24:16
old TV inz days they had a they had a
00:24:18
so-called license that some people paid
00:24:20
and some people didn't uh so you pretty
00:24:22
much W watch the for nothing um but
00:24:25
things have changed and and now of
00:24:26
course you have to subscribe and I think
00:24:29
there's probably going to be more of
00:24:30
that I'm not I'm not much and you
00:24:32
probably know more about than I do this
00:24:34
streaming business when people say you
00:24:36
can stream it I'm thinking what do I do
00:24:39
now which button do I have to push uh
00:24:41
and I have to call them you know my kids
00:24:42
or something to tell me how to do it um
00:24:45
but um look I'm always I mean there's
00:24:47
always going to have to be
00:24:50
media um and there's always going to be
00:24:52
coverage of sport it's huge um how it's
00:24:55
done is another thing um um but yeah I'm
00:25:00
I'm still I'm still feeling pretty happy
00:25:02
about it to be honest yeah a lot of
00:25:04
people become um sort of fearful of
00:25:05
change like when you've seen as much
00:25:06
changes you have does it become less
00:25:08
less fearful you just crack on with it
00:25:10
well there's always something new isn't
00:25:11
it I mean I I remember starting it I
00:25:14
this is another part of my story but I
00:25:15
remember starting at the TB and I was I
00:25:17
was Loosely called a media liaison
00:25:20
officer and I started in 1996 and and we
00:25:23
didn't have the internet and I don't
00:25:25
think we had cell phones so I had to try
00:25:28
and sell sports Bing to the New Zealand
00:25:30
media using a landline and ax I mean
00:25:34
that doesn't seem that long ago does it
00:25:36
so you can see how and who knows uh 20
00:25:40
odd years down the track or even 10
00:25:41
years down the track what sort of
00:25:43
wonderful Innovations will come and I'm
00:25:45
sure I'm sure there's going to be stuff
00:25:47
that we've never thought of yeah it's
00:25:49
funny that you you bring that up because
00:25:51
it must have been around when did Jona
00:25:52
first sto playing for the old blacks uh
00:25:54
94 I think yeah yes I've had Rick salit
00:25:57
on the the and he tells a similar story
00:25:59
that he sort of created the role for
00:26:01
himself in the old blacks of mediaa an
00:26:03
officer I remember Rick well they didn't
00:26:05
have one and he sort of created it and
00:26:07
no one really knew what it meant he
00:26:08
didn't even really know what it meant I
00:26:10
think he told a story about a fax
00:26:11
machine on a landline as well yeah yeah
00:26:14
no cell phones no I mean where would we
00:26:15
be without cell phones I mean I know
00:26:18
people overuse them but you know just
00:26:20
communication you know you suddenly want
00:26:22
have a thought you want to ring somebody
00:26:24
what are we used to
00:26:25
do know yeah actually we had this this
00:26:28
chat over lunch you and I have got one
00:26:30
thing in common um the only phone number
00:26:32
we both remember is our own yes yes and
00:26:35
I used to remember landline number I can
00:26:37
still remember my
00:26:39
landline number from when I lived at
00:26:42
home as a kid I can still remember that
00:26:44
number so can I 6 7816 yeah 861 500 um
00:26:49
completely useless now me meanwhile
00:26:51
sometimes I can't remember the alarm
00:26:52
code at home I know yeah and you're
00:26:55
right I mean it's the only cell phone
00:26:57
number right well because you don't
00:26:58
actually need as long as you don't lose
00:27:00
your phone you don't actually need to
00:27:03
because you just look up the person's
00:27:04
name and go click and they and they're
00:27:06
there so why worry about what the number
00:27:07
is absolutely you do worry about the
00:27:09
that muscle memory aspect like you're
00:27:10
just not using that brain power anymore
00:27:13
I suppose you're using it for other
00:27:14
things though um yeah like you're
00:27:16
memorizing a lot of names and yep yep
00:27:19
yep I make sure I keep my mind activated
00:27:21
I do the soku every morning in the paper
00:27:23
in fact I think it's the only reason I
00:27:24
buy the paper these days um because
00:27:27
there's nothing new in the paper don't
00:27:28
already know but um yeah I think it's
00:27:31
important to keep the old mind ticking
00:27:32
over God you and my dad yeah you both
00:27:34
love suduku puzzles um actually that's
00:27:37
how this podcast happened Dad Dad um
00:27:40
plays lawn balls with you yes he does by
00:27:42
the way does he go all right he talks
00:27:43
about game yeah no he does well I'm just
00:27:45
trying to think he's got yellow balls uh
00:27:48
and when I started and probably when he
00:27:49
started you only had black and brown
00:27:51
ballls that was it now everyone's got
00:27:53
these flash colors and I'm pretty sure
00:27:55
I'm right in saying your old man's got
00:27:56
yellow balls
00:27:58
really it's
00:28:00
controversial it's very uh yeah very
00:28:02
Progressive of the old man yeah yeah um
00:28:05
so yeah so he approached you and said oh
00:28:07
my son does a PO how did this how did
00:28:08
this come about yeah pretty much exactly
00:28:11
as you say and he's very proud of you by
00:28:13
the way um and uh he said my boy Dom is
00:28:17
um does uh does podcast and um he'd love
00:28:21
to have a chat to you sometime and I
00:28:22
said yeah tell him to give me a bell so
00:28:23
there we are we are I'm I'm just
00:28:26
impressed that he's figured out how to
00:28:27
how to listen are engaged with the
00:28:28
podcast he's you're you're I think
00:28:31
you're a couple years younger than him
00:28:32
but you're doing you're doing a lot
00:28:33
better for example dad will be like um
00:28:35
he'll message me be like oh hey um I'm
00:28:37
going to send you an article there's
00:28:38
something in the in the Dominion Post or
00:28:40
whatever the paper happens to be and
00:28:42
I'll be like Dad you could just take
00:28:43
take a photo of it with your with your
00:28:44
phone and send it through and I I can
00:28:46
have it in 30 seconds how does he go on
00:28:48
streaming oh God don't like that no no
00:28:52
clue no chance um I God there so much to
00:28:55
get through we haven't even started
00:28:56
really scratching the surface of the
00:28:57
rugby stuff yet but um you you've
00:29:00
commentated with um Richie BAU as well
00:29:02
in cricket yeah yeah um that was a real
00:29:05
thrill actually and it came about it was
00:29:07
1996 I was still in radio at the time
00:29:11
and uh the World Cup was in India and
00:29:14
Pakistan and radio said to was on radio
00:29:18
or it just started on TV pretty sure it
00:29:21
was radio um they said we want you to
00:29:24
cover the World Cup in India and
00:29:25
Pakistan so Smithy and me and Sir
00:29:28
Richard Hadley uh headed off into the
00:29:31
great unknown I mean I was never ever
00:29:34
likely doing ragby to ever go to India
00:29:37
and Pakistan so I thought this is going
00:29:38
to be fantastic and it was and um so the
00:29:41
first game we got I think it was our
00:29:43
minad or something like that and New
00:29:45
Zealand was playing
00:29:46
England and on the roster including me
00:29:50
and Smithy and Richard Hadley were
00:29:53
Richie Beno Keith stackpole Tony Greg
00:29:58
and he in Chapel so I got to meet all
00:30:00
these guys oh just staggering and I and
00:30:04
I remember having a beer the night
00:30:05
before Richie wasn't there and I I said
00:30:08
to um Ian Chapel who I'd only met two
00:30:10
minutes earlier I said um any tips about
00:30:14
working with Richie because I just held
00:30:16
him in absolute a he said I'll give you
00:30:18
a good tip he said if you're on ear with
00:30:20
Richie don't ask him any questions
00:30:23
because he won't answer them because he
00:30:26
considers if you are in the Box you
00:30:28
don't need to be asking anyone questions
00:30:30
you are there for a reason you're there
00:30:31
because you know what your subject is so
00:30:33
boy was that good advice was that good
00:30:35
advice because that might have been
00:30:37
embarrassing if I said to Richie can you
00:30:39
remember Richie back and how did you how
00:30:40
would you have you know he probably
00:30:42
would have just ignored me
00:30:43
you so it was great advice but you think
00:30:46
that's a mark of respect like picking
00:30:48
someone's brains yeah oh well I mean I
00:30:51
was I was obviously nervous I mean the
00:30:53
great Richie Beno Not only was a great
00:30:55
cricketer but a great broadcaster
00:30:58
are you familiar with the term imposter
00:31:00
syndrome
00:31:01
uh yeah yeah you feel like you don't
00:31:04
belong yeah you're like what am I do
00:31:06
again yeah I know well I mean all those
00:31:08
guys I mentioned I'm pretty sure all
00:31:09
those guys I mentioned all play chest
00:31:11
cricket and he and who was this imposter
00:31:13
you're right you're absolutely right
00:31:15
yeah yeah wow what an experience yes yes
00:31:18
it was it it really was even better we
00:31:21
beat England by so much that day um we
00:31:24
had a good team in '96 in fact I could
00:31:26
tell you a great story about that and we
00:31:28
came to the quarterfinal in Madras it
00:31:29
was called in those I think it's chenai
00:31:31
now and Smithy and I had just about done
00:31:34
our Dash we' been away for well it felt
00:31:36
like a few months but it might have only
00:31:38
been six weeks and we decided when we
00:31:40
got to chenai that we were playing
00:31:42
Australia in a quarterfinal and we had
00:31:44
no chance of beating them no chance
00:31:45
whatsoever so we took a punt we booked
00:31:49
out of our hotel and we took our suitc
00:31:52
cases to the ground because we felt that
00:31:55
U New Zealand had no chance and there
00:31:57
was a flight out of uh chenai to
00:32:00
Singapore at let's say 9:00 that night
00:32:02
and we'd be on it but we we'd only be on
00:32:05
it if we had our Gear with us um you
00:32:07
know we wouldn't had time to go back to
00:32:09
the hotel book out blah blah blah so we
00:32:11
took the punt and we took our bags to
00:32:13
the ground and you wouldn't want to know
00:32:15
New Zealand bats first and Chris Harris
00:32:17
batted out of his tree lead Jon also and
00:32:20
we scored about
00:32:21
280 which in those days was a huge one
00:32:24
day score it was a winning score nine
00:32:27
times out of 10
00:32:28
and um so at half time uh well you know
00:32:31
change of innings you had me and Smithy
00:32:33
despondent because uh because we looked
00:32:36
like we were going to be stuck in in
00:32:38
India for a bit longer and the Aussie
00:32:41
guys all desponded because they thought
00:32:42
their team was gone as well and then um
00:32:45
Mark War played one of the great Innings
00:32:48
and got Australia home and they won the
00:32:51
game and we're on a way but I remember
00:32:53
doing a a panel discussion with Mark W
00:32:55
in Sydney about three or four 4 years
00:32:58
later and just on the on the side I said
00:33:02
to him I'd never met him before but I I
00:33:04
cheekily said you don't know how good
00:33:06
that innings was you really don't he
00:33:08
said what do you mean I said and I told
00:33:10
him the story and he said I happy to
00:33:12
help
00:33:14
boys have to
00:33:16
help but also shame on you guys for
00:33:18
having such a long I know oh I know I'm
00:33:20
almost ashamed to tell the story but um
00:33:23
we'd sort of come to the end of our run
00:33:25
to be fair you know it was hot and all
00:33:27
all all the other silly excuses but
00:33:29
normally I'm very patriotic I want New
00:33:32
Zealand to win anything I watch TV if
00:33:35
we're if we're playing in a in a tly
00:33:37
Wings tournament to see that the Kiwi
00:33:39
does well you know but um th those were
00:33:42
the circumstances at the time I feel
00:33:45
like everyone um everyone feels like
00:33:47
they know they know niso
00:33:50
um but no no one really knows a lot
00:33:53
about the Grant I guess yeah would that
00:33:56
be a fair thing to say in terms of the
00:33:58
public uh yeah possibly yeah yeah always
00:34:02
ducked away from the publicity to be
00:34:04
fair you that oh I just I I mean I'm I'm
00:34:08
I'm happy to live in my own little world
00:34:11
and uh and and not caught publicity um
00:34:14
you know some people seek it I've never
00:34:17
been that sort of way um yeah I don't
00:34:19
know why that is it's just just a quirk
00:34:21
really who calls you grant uh very few
00:34:25
people these days yeah very few people
00:34:27
uh nisb actually came from my old mates
00:34:30
from primary school days and I still got
00:34:31
a few of them call me NIS um but the
00:34:34
nisb one was invented by somebody in
00:34:36
broadcasting and that's kind of stuck so
00:34:39
I probably answer to both yeah yeah what
00:34:42
are you so you were um you were boxing
00:34:43
day baby yeah um how was that growing up
00:34:46
you get short changed on the old
00:34:47
Christmas present well I always claim
00:34:49
that um whether it's true or not yeah
00:34:51
whether it's true or not I I I don't
00:34:53
really know um yeah I'm I'm a boxing day
00:34:56
baby uh um which is not a birthday you
00:34:59
can hide it's not a not like July the
00:35:03
233 or 20 you know August the 29th when
00:35:06
well no one really knows apologies to
00:35:09
those August 29th sorry about that yeah
00:35:11
yeah yeah yeah um yeah so you can't
00:35:13
really hide it yeah yeah I suppose it's
00:35:15
good because you generally got your
00:35:16
family around and bit the great the
00:35:19
great Cricket commentator Ian Galloway
00:35:21
also had um so we used to exchange War
00:35:24
stories about what it was like to be
00:35:26
born on boxing day m
00:35:29
yeah one thing that I um tend to bring
00:35:30
up and um chat about with most of my
00:35:32
guests is sort of um yeah the mental
00:35:34
health sort of aspect of um yeah The
00:35:36
Human Experience and I'm guessing you're
00:35:38
from that what year were you born 1950
00:35:41
1950 yeah you're from that generation
00:35:43
where it just it just wasn't a thing it
00:35:45
was not no even if it did it actually
00:35:47
not must have existed because it was um
00:35:48
like Winston Churchill there um came up
00:35:50
with the phrase the black dog but it was
00:35:51
just it was largely sort of ignored or
00:35:54
you were told to sort of like push on
00:35:56
with it or yeah yeah totally ignored yes
00:35:58
absolutely how's how's your mental
00:36:00
health been over the years yeah good
00:36:02
I've been lucky I guess um I've always
00:36:05
been a glass half full as a as opposed
00:36:09
to a glass half empty where does that
00:36:11
come from um probably I mean like most
00:36:14
things it comes from your parents and I
00:36:16
think that's probably their their
00:36:19
attitude in life um I mean I've Had My
00:36:22
Moments when I've when I felt grieved
00:36:25
and felt where you know that happens on
00:36:27
broadcast as you well know where you
00:36:28
think you should be doing something and
00:36:29
someone else does it um and I've I've
00:36:32
felt
00:36:33
annoyed but it's never really got me
00:36:36
down to the point where I've been at
00:36:38
desperation stage or anything so I guess
00:36:41
I've been lucky really I guess I've been
00:36:42
lucky because I I do understand it's
00:36:45
it's a major issue and that's where I
00:36:48
applaud applaud people like Mike King
00:36:50
and Sir John kerin who are great
00:36:53
Advocates um and I know them both and I
00:36:55
know them both damn well um boy that is
00:36:59
a labor of love and haven't they done a
00:37:01
great job in that space Oh no go like um
00:37:04
I mean there's a lot of um like people
00:37:05
doing great work in the mental health
00:37:06
space now but I I I can't imagine how
00:37:09
terrifying it was like for John kwin to
00:37:13
you do that first TV ad campaign or to
00:37:15
come public with it it's like the the
00:37:19
the most daunting thing ever because it
00:37:21
seems hard to Fe them now but this was a
00:37:22
time when no one was talking about this
00:37:24
stuff so you're you're he was he was it
00:37:27
was the ultimate Act of vulnerability
00:37:28
like um he risked ridicule uh
00:37:32
backlash you know it was like jumping
00:37:35
off a cliff really and hoping for the
00:37:36
best The Bravery it took Sir John cin to
00:37:38
do that well I mean he's such a
00:37:39
high-profile guy and all black in this
00:37:42
country is high-profile anyway um but to
00:37:45
have that as you say
00:37:47
vulnerability um I just deployed him and
00:37:51
he's a top class bloke I mean we do a
00:37:52
bit of work together at Sky these days
00:37:54
and uh uh he always jokes about the
00:37:57
first test that I did was the first test
00:38:00
he played in he said my God if we if
00:38:02
we'd lost he said both of us might have
00:38:04
been out of a
00:38:06
job so I've followed his career over the
00:38:08
years you know and he's he's um he's
00:38:11
given coaching ago um and I've caught up
00:38:13
with him in Japan when he was coaching
00:38:15
there and Italy when he was coaching
00:38:16
there and he was with the blues and um
00:38:20
but he just wears it on his sleeve V I
00:38:22
mean what you see is what you get
00:38:24
there's no I was going to say [ __ ]
00:38:26
but you probably can't use that would so
00:38:28
um well actually you can it's a podcast
00:38:30
but not governed by the uh BSA yeah yeah
00:38:33
so there's none of that with him yeah
00:38:35
absolutely I we' we've used the word
00:38:37
vulnerability which is kind of a buzz
00:38:38
word these days um yeah how I mean I'm
00:38:43
I'm I'm from a generation where this is
00:38:45
like new to us to have these
00:38:46
conversations with your mates you know
00:38:48
talk about the crunchy stuff in life how
00:38:50
are you have you got some mates that you
00:38:51
can talk to about stuff that's going on
00:38:53
I have yeah I have and um and you know
00:38:56
as you get older everyone has health the
00:38:57
shoes and all that sort of thing I I
00:38:59
don't tend to go too big on to it but um
00:39:03
um you know we uh We Gather well
00:39:06
nowadays We Gather once a week it's a
00:39:08
bit of a ritual on a Sunday for a couple
00:39:11
and uh all sorts of subjects come up all
00:39:13
sorts of and it's amazing the the recall
00:39:15
you've got of probably better recall of
00:39:17
what you did um 60 years ago than you
00:39:19
have what happened yesterday to be fair
00:39:21
um but yeah they they're the sort of
00:39:24
guys that you can uh you can have a y
00:39:25
with and uh um you know none of us are
00:39:28
getting any younger I guess that's the
00:39:30
that's the bottom line Yeah well yeah
00:39:33
what are the um what do you think the
00:39:34
biggest adversities you've been through
00:39:35
like no no one um reaches the privileged
00:39:38
position of being in their 70s without
00:39:40
being kicked in the ass a few times
00:39:41
right oh look yeah I mean losing losing
00:39:45
loved ones and and everybody cope has to
00:39:48
cope with it at some point yeah and um
00:39:51
there's nothing much harder than that is
00:39:53
there um in my experience anyway um and
00:39:58
I haven't been kicked in the guts too
00:40:00
often when it comes to career I've been
00:40:02
very lucky in that regard um but anyone
00:40:05
in a public position who suffers a
00:40:08
setback and you see it in the media a
00:40:10
lot these days with you know layoffs and
00:40:12
what have you it's not easy it's not
00:40:15
easy to cope when you're in the in the
00:40:17
public eye and I really feel for people
00:40:20
when it happens yeah yeah yeah I mean
00:40:24
being being made redundant in any
00:40:26
Industries it's not no I say it's hard
00:40:28
to not take it personally but I suppose
00:40:30
with that added dimension of it being
00:40:31
public um adds a bit of extra sting yeah
00:40:34
yeah so your um I mean we can talk about
00:40:38
this in as much as little uh detail as
00:40:40
what you want to but your wife Tony uh
00:40:42
passed away on December 3 2015 y the
00:40:45
mother the mother of your two kids n
00:40:47
years today Believe It or Not December 3
00:40:50
yeah yeah oh I didn't make the
00:40:51
connection yeah yeah it is yeah how's
00:40:53
how's today for you yeah know um I mean
00:40:57
time heals a lot obviously and I I still
00:41:00
think about her and uh and feel for the
00:41:02
girls and and all the rest of it but she
00:41:04
did a remarkable job quite often my
00:41:07
absence because I was we on Rugby tours
00:41:09
a lot in in bringing the girls up and if
00:41:12
anyone asks you what your single most um
00:41:15
single biggest achievement is it's not
00:41:17
350 test matches it's actually
00:41:19
successfully bringing up a couple of
00:41:21
kids and and hoping you get them through
00:41:24
those years when times are tough and
00:41:26
then they're teenagers and they know
00:41:28
everything then they're in their 20s and
00:41:30
they you know um that's that's my
00:41:32
biggest and and and and Tony was very
00:41:34
much part of that for sure yeah yeah how
00:41:37
long were you guys married 34 years um
00:41:40
and she came from a sporting family her
00:41:42
brother Peter represented New Zealand at
00:41:44
bows and uh and so she was well aware of
00:41:48
what you know sport can um you know can
00:41:52
Galvanize things but you often if you're
00:41:55
playing it or commentating on it you're
00:41:56
not there aot lot so she kind of
00:41:58
understood all that which was boy I was
00:42:00
lucky in that regard really lucky you're
00:42:02
into the longevity thing long
00:42:04
relationships long career yeah yeah yeah
00:42:07
how did how did you meet were you was
00:42:08
she a broadcaster as well or yeah she
00:42:10
was she worked in she worked in
00:42:11
Broadcasting House in Wellington I met
00:42:12
her met it that way yeah exactly yeah I
00:42:14
mean it wasn't my first marriage first
00:42:16
one didn't last too long but um oh [ __ ]
00:42:19
I didn't know that didn't you know that
00:42:20
that suppose it was pre- internet oh
00:42:23
hell yes how long was the first one oh
00:42:26
four years I I think yeah yeah yeah and
00:42:28
that didn't work out but that's uh these
00:42:30
don't happen was that was that a a big
00:42:32
thing of sort of you know shame or
00:42:34
disappointment at the time like
00:42:35
marriages breakups are no big deal now
00:42:37
yeah they're not a big deal that's right
00:42:39
exactly it was maybe a different
00:42:40
generation so yeah maybe maybe didn't
00:42:43
feel too good about it at the time it's
00:42:45
by G we're going back in but now yeah
00:42:47
but I mean you know I've been lucky um
00:42:49
you know Tony passed away what nine
00:42:51
years ago and I've been with shanan now
00:42:52
for seven um so uh you know you kind of
00:42:57
got to move on you don't the memories
00:42:59
are always going to be there but you've
00:43:01
got to move on you have to move
00:43:04
on yeah it's it's yeah yeah yeah thanks
00:43:08
for sharing that I mean it's hard like
00:43:09
knowing that you were coming in today
00:43:11
like I did some research online there's
00:43:12
um like there's there's a photo I found
00:43:14
like I found this photo online oh yeah
00:43:16
yeah yeah you and Tony and um how how
00:43:19
old do you reckon you both are then 40s
00:43:21
maybe yeah maybe yeah maybe yeah yeah
00:43:24
maybe yeah and there's just so many
00:43:25
photos photos on I suppose is the good
00:43:27
good thing about the internet it becomes
00:43:28
like a Time Capture when there photos of
00:43:30
you it seems like you're in Fiji every
00:43:31
other week oh yes cocktails that would
00:43:34
be wrong that be wrong yeah yeah yeah I
00:43:37
wish um it's not a b place to go is it
00:43:40
yeah what about sha like how did you how
00:43:42
did you meet her well I met her at the
00:43:44
TB actually and um took a punt yeah well
00:43:47
no she she was in Australia when all
00:43:49
this unfolded and um we sort of kept in
00:43:52
touch I knew it just sag ODU I mean it's
00:43:54
just one of those things that evolved
00:43:56
actually over the years and and uh uh
00:43:58
and it's great actually um I think I
00:44:01
think in your lat ear it's quite nice to
00:44:03
have someone else there um I don't know
00:44:07
how I would have got on had I just
00:44:08
decided to go go Alan go alone as they
00:44:11
say in cards um so it's nice to have
00:44:14
someone you know someone around for sure
00:44:18
yeah cu the last thing you want to be
00:44:19
lonely yeah yeah and I suppose um yeah
00:44:23
for the from the perspective of your
00:44:24
your daughters um I suppose they were
00:44:27
quite happy for you to meet someone else
00:44:28
as well obviously you know yeah it's not
00:44:30
an easy transition um and I can
00:44:32
understand it from their point of view
00:44:33
too you know because it's not their mom
00:44:36
and and can never be their M and all the
00:44:38
rest of it but no they've been fantastic
00:44:40
and as I said I really think that my
00:44:42
single grest achievement in life forget
00:44:44
about the 350 test matches and 50 OD
00:44:47
years in broadcasting is actually Su
00:44:49
successfully bringing up a couple of
00:44:50
kids or two girls actually um and and
00:44:54
you know it's never easy parenting is
00:44:56
never easy but um when it's uh when you
00:44:59
think you've done the right thing and uh
00:45:01
and you see the end product I think
00:45:04
that's very
00:45:05
satisfying yeah CU When when when their
00:45:07
mom passed um so they were they were
00:45:09
adults orbe it painfully young adults to
00:45:11
lose their mom yeah 20s yeah but they so
00:45:14
they they flow on the nest they're off
00:45:16
getting off getting on with their own
00:45:17
lives and I the last thing they want is
00:45:19
the thought of like dead being sitting a
00:45:21
home at loan miserable you know yeah we
00:45:23
have great communication I mean we we
00:45:25
talk I was going to say most days
00:45:28
certainly every two days uh we
00:45:30
communicate with each other which is
00:45:32
good some people don't you know some
00:45:34
parents don't communicate with the kids
00:45:35
a lot um we we've always had this great
00:45:39
communication they don't live in they
00:45:41
don't live in the same city as me uh but
00:45:43
that's fine um as I say without the cell
00:45:46
phone not sure where we'd be these days
00:45:49
well actually maybe not great communic
00:45:51
the studio where we're recording this is
00:45:53
my pod Lab Studio and one of your
00:45:54
daughters Works um like 100 meters up
00:45:56
the road probably like an ad up the road
00:45:58
and you had to phone to see if she was
00:46:01
at work today you could have done a bit
00:46:02
more adman and spent a couple of hours
00:46:03
with you are you just so so busy that
00:46:06
it's uh you know you fly to Oakland you
00:46:07
fly out you might catch up you might not
00:46:09
catch up S well most of my days these
00:46:11
days is T taking up playing balls I got
00:46:14
to be honest with you um which I find
00:46:16
great relaxation I tried golf I still
00:46:18
Eno enjoy golf but I was never going to
00:46:20
get any better and it started to annoy
00:46:21
me that I wasn't getting better uh
00:46:24
whereas BS um you know every out again
00:46:26
you you'll get one close to the Jack and
00:46:28
you'll think to yourself I'm not sure
00:46:30
how I did that but boy it was satisfying
00:46:32
it was really satisfying so I play a lot
00:46:34
of bows and I enjoy the camaraderie you
00:46:36
learn a lot from people you play against
00:46:38
uh sure it's tough competition you want
00:46:40
to win but um you're going to have great
00:46:42
rapport with your opponents too and I I
00:46:44
really enjoy that part of bows too yeah
00:46:46
yeah actually um I'm not sure which one
00:46:48
of your daughters it was um brook or
00:46:49
Kirsty before but you made have call to
00:46:51
one of them just to see if she was at
00:46:52
work today um I noticed at the end of
00:46:55
the conversation you you said I you two
00:46:57
or whatever um I don't know it was a
00:46:59
small thing that I overheard but speaks
00:47:01
a lot about the relationship that you've
00:47:02
got well that's right exactly I mean
00:47:03
we've always done that um and yeah I
00:47:05
mean we are pretty close there's no
00:47:07
question about
00:47:08
that um yeah and they would say oh yeah
00:47:12
I saw this Facebook post from um Kirsty
00:47:14
um I think this is talking about your
00:47:16
350th oh yes uh prayer doesn't even
00:47:19
touch the surface your hard work yet
00:47:21
humble approach to everything you do is
00:47:23
clear to everyone that knows you and
00:47:25
although you hate the attention you
00:47:26
deserve all the recognition yeah they'
00:47:29
always been good with words those those
00:47:30
girls and I can remember when they were
00:47:33
sending birthday cards or cards to me
00:47:35
when I was overseas brilliant with words
00:47:38
absolutely exceptional and it was
00:47:40
actually nice at the 350th because um
00:47:43
sha came up my partner and the girls
00:47:46
were both there it was a game uh it was
00:47:49
a game in the studio but they were all
00:47:50
there and skot did a nice little morning
00:47:52
tea and all the rest of it so it was it
00:47:54
was brilliant to have them all there and
00:47:55
Brook had a had a little speech written
00:47:57
out on the phone which she was very
00:47:58
nervous about writing reading out but
00:48:00
she she did a great job uh I think she
00:48:03
she's uh she should have been a
00:48:04
broadcast she got a v voice like mine
00:48:06
bit like a fog horn um and she' it's
00:48:09
what every lady wants to hear yeah yeah
00:48:12
I've T her before I've Ted her before
00:48:14
and um and she and she made and she said
00:48:17
some nice words so it was brilliant to
00:48:18
have them all there yeah yeah it's I've
00:48:20
found another photo as well this is just
00:48:22
you and the the two of them looks like a
00:48:24
bloody great Dynamic yeah it is yeah it
00:48:26
is absolutely very proud of them very
00:48:28
proud of them they've done well and
00:48:30
they've got good blocks around them
00:48:31
which is important
00:48:33
too have you um and you're a Granddad
00:48:36
now how many how many grand kids you
00:48:37
three yeah how um have you found you got
00:48:40
a I'm I'm probably projecting here
00:48:42
because this is my experience I in my
00:48:44
20s and 30s and maybe into my 40s I can
00:48:46
probably count the amount of times I
00:48:47
cried on maybe one hand yeah um the last
00:48:51
like five or six years I I re it's like
00:48:53
um it's a thing I'm calling manopause
00:48:55
like I I've I've got more emotional as I
00:48:58
get older I'm a shocker I'm a shocker
00:49:00
I'm I'm I'm worse um watching
00:49:03
TV um what's that what's that program
00:49:06
that David lomes does where you I'm
00:49:07
missing pieces yeah I cry I cry every
00:49:10
episode because I'm just happy for
00:49:12
people and and that's the way I express
00:49:14
myself yeah yeah I just terrible I'm
00:49:17
shocking oh it's wonderful though I
00:49:20
guess it is I guess it is yeah I mean I
00:49:22
I go to the movies I go to the movies
00:49:24
quite often sh and I go to the movies
00:49:25
quite often and um
00:49:27
and um sometimes she'll she'll look
00:49:29
across and I'm giving it the old you
00:49:33
know are you um yeah you slightly sort
00:49:36
of um like embarrassed about it because
00:49:38
you're of that age or Generation Um not
00:49:41
unless there's a major audience around
00:49:44
no I can kind of Cape I I I think I
00:49:46
pretend I'm not but I yeah I I can get
00:49:49
quite I can get quite emotional but I'm
00:49:51
like you I I think of my probably 20s
00:49:53
and 30s you count on the fingers of one
00:49:55
end um
00:49:57
as you get older you um maybe get more
00:49:59
sentimental or I'm not sure what the
00:50:01
word is yeah I think a lot of it is like
00:50:03
like almost like happiness tears or
00:50:04
gratitude tears so Wonder well if New
00:50:06
Zealand wins a gold medal at the Olympic
00:50:08
Games I'm gone I'm gone and the only and
00:50:11
the only way that I wouldn't is if I was
00:50:13
broadcasting because I can somehow and
00:50:15
I've C two World Cup finals which if
00:50:17
I've been sitting at home where we've
00:50:19
won if I'd been sitting at home I would
00:50:21
have been in tears but because you're on
00:50:22
the
00:50:23
job uh somehow I'm able to be slightly
00:50:27
more dispassionate about the whole thing
00:50:29
um which is crazy I suppose I mean you
00:50:32
don't want a blubbering fool doing the
00:50:35
commentary but um I've often felt like
00:50:37
it but but if I'm sitting at home and we
00:50:39
win a gold medal or we win something I'm
00:50:42
hopeless I'm and if if the flag goes up
00:50:44
and the national anthem comes on I'm
00:50:46
just hopeless I am hopeless so every
00:50:49
time you see daame Lisa Carrington's
00:50:50
racing you got to leave the room oh just
00:50:52
about just about yeah yeah random it's a
00:50:55
random question when you are watching
00:50:56
sport on TV at home do you do you sort
00:50:58
of find yourself like even like
00:51:00
commenting internally or are you able
00:51:03
just to watch it and switch off and
00:51:04
enjoy it as a
00:51:05
viewer yeah depends on the sport I
00:51:08
suppose um no I think I'm I'm pretty
00:51:12
good I'm pretty good I um I don't think
00:51:15
I'm trying to add
00:51:17
words sometimes you know a commentator
00:51:19
stretching for a word you you feel like
00:51:21
shouting it out for him you know but um
00:51:24
no I think I'm pretty good yeah yeah um
00:51:27
all right I thanks for sharing that
00:51:29
stuff yeah that's I know yeah partly by
00:51:32
Design I guess partly because you've
00:51:33
never been in sort of the sort of uh
00:51:35
Forum but yeah I appreciate you sharing
00:51:37
some of the personal stuff that's fine
00:51:38
yeah um all right let's go to your first
00:51:41
love bloody rugby so uh first test 1984
00:51:45
when the old blacks beat France at
00:51:47
Lancaster Park in Christ Church can you
00:51:48
remember the score no no um in fact if I
00:51:53
got my info wrong no no in fact I know
00:51:56
very little about that game and um but I
00:52:00
do remember the game after or the or the
00:52:02
games after that where we went on a tour
00:52:05
to Australia so I don't I don't remember
00:52:08
much about the specifics I guess you
00:52:10
could look it up and all the rest of it
00:52:12
but um the games I do remember are the
00:52:15
ones that followed funnily enough and so
00:52:18
it's so damn long ago now it's 40 years
00:52:20
ago it's crazy when you think back oh
00:52:22
know it's ridiculous ridiculous yeah
00:52:23
yeah this is a check we had in the the
00:52:25
car on the dve from the airport you know
00:52:26
when you look at things happening in the
00:52:28
future like you hear about a stadium
00:52:30
that's going to be built in 9 years from
00:52:31
now you think oh [ __ ] that's a lifetime
00:52:32
away you look you look back I always add
00:52:35
I always add nine to my total and think
00:52:37
I'm going to be oh my God am I going to
00:52:40
get that far you know do you cting the
00:52:42
Summers you got left oh yeah um what has
00:52:45
been your oh by the way the score in
00:52:46
that game in 1984 109 another French
00:52:49
game where we got them by one point yeah
00:52:50
and I think you know I think from memory
00:52:52
there was a lot of drop kicks by them
00:52:53
trying to win the game something like
00:52:55
that yeah um has there been a favorite
00:52:58
game to call and why there's been a few
00:53:00
yeah there's been a few I think and I've
00:53:02
been asked this question a fair bit and
00:53:04
I you know if you ask me if there were a
00:53:06
few I'd go about five but if I errow it
00:53:08
down to one I think it was the the World
00:53:10
Cup Final in 215 where we were playing
00:53:13
Australia and one thing about playing
00:53:16
Australia is you always get a good game
00:53:17
of rugby because their attitude is
00:53:19
always positive even if they had a very
00:53:21
good Australian team at the time they
00:53:23
play with intent and they play because
00:53:25
they want to score tribe
00:53:27
sometimes when you play other teams it's
00:53:29
opposite and you don't get a very good
00:53:30
game but um so the 215 World Cup final
00:53:34
Wes deserve to be there for sure we were
00:53:37
on a bit of a run we were going well and
00:53:40
all the drama surrounding that game
00:53:43
particularly us getting a yellow card
00:53:45
them coming back into the match Sunny B
00:53:47
Williams coming on at halime when they
00:53:50
substitute Conrad Smith
00:53:51
out and then the drama at the end when
00:53:54
bod scored it was um it just had
00:53:58
everything really plus it was a win of
00:54:00
course so I think I think if I had to
00:54:02
isolate one particular game uh was 215
00:54:06
World Cup final you contrast that with
00:54:08
211 which was also Monumental occasion
00:54:12
it went a very good game um and it was
00:54:14
more a sense of relief that we' actually
00:54:16
cracked it and I don't know whether we
00:54:19
were celebrating too much we were just
00:54:20
going oh my God think we' you know it's
00:54:23
t taken us since ' 87 you know and all
00:54:25
that um
00:54:26
whereas in 215 it was a real celebration
00:54:28
it was a great game of footy yeah 2011
00:54:30
was just relief total sheer relief
00:54:33
nothing actually even the just hanging
00:54:34
on for that 1.1 it was the number of
00:54:36
people I've spoken to who didn't watch
00:54:38
the last 10 minutes they went outside
00:54:40
they had a smoke they buried their head
00:54:43
in the sand just hoping that we'd hang
00:54:47
in there and and never actually whoops
00:54:50
never actually saw the last five minutes
00:54:53
they couldn't stand the tension of it
00:54:54
all yeah and um
00:54:56
yeah and in 2015 so like what are you
00:54:59
and the commentators do afterwards like
00:55:01
do you do you intersect with obviously
00:55:03
you're not going into the dressing room
00:55:04
because but you I mean it was it was a
00:55:06
very big game it was Richie's last game
00:55:07
and apparently he got on the team bus
00:55:09
with his playing kit to long because he
00:55:11
knew as soon as soon as he took the
00:55:12
Jersey off that was it that was it last
00:55:14
time did you you meet up with the team
00:55:15
at the hotel or anything or no I don't
00:55:17
think so no I mean generally that's not
00:55:20
the case the media tend to stick
00:55:22
together um maybe not so much nowadays
00:55:25
as they used to when we went on tour we
00:55:26
were all in the same Hotel sometimes the
00:55:29
All Blacks are in a different Hotel um
00:55:31
from M the All Blacks in 215 were out at
00:55:34
uh well they're a long way out of London
00:55:36
so I'm not sure what they would have
00:55:37
done but um no we I think from memory we
00:55:40
just went back and uh got changed and
00:55:42
went and had a had a beer and what have
00:55:44
you most of us had to fly out the next
00:55:45
day so you don't want to find yourself
00:55:47
as you get older you don't find yourself
00:55:49
four in the morning and thinking oh
00:55:51
what's the point in going to bed now um
00:55:53
so you don't want to get that or locking
00:55:55
yourself out of a hotel for the third
00:55:57
time yeah exactly as you get older you
00:55:59
get wiser and you learn how to um you
00:56:01
learn how to celebrate
00:56:03
um uh responsibly respons good on good
00:56:06
on you gez um we talked before you
00:56:09
mentioned um the name um Brent Todd tody
00:56:11
who you've worked with and also we
00:56:13
talked about Richie BAU um and you may
00:56:15
have even mentioned Smithy as well in
00:56:16
the cricket you've worked with Smithy
00:56:18
and rugby as well let's let's um yeah
00:56:20
let's run through some of the names of
00:56:21
some of the Legends you've worked with
00:56:22
and see what stories come to mind yeah
00:56:24
so Smithy Ian Smith yeah
00:56:26
yeah Smithy well him and I sheare a
00:56:29
secondary school in common we both went
00:56:30
to rongai college and I commentated um I
00:56:34
commentated a lot of his games in fact a
00:56:37
good story about Smithy and he and he
00:56:39
relates it as well um I lived in
00:56:42
Wellington and of course Smithy I think
00:56:44
at the time lived in nap here and he was
00:56:46
the New Zealand Wier and he was having a
00:56:48
bit of a poor Trot and there was a guy
00:56:49
who was in Wellington called Evan
00:56:51
mcweeney ir mcweeny and I might have
00:56:54
said publicly at some point maybe irin
00:56:57
mcweeney um deserves a
00:56:59
shot in the in the New Zealand team at
00:57:02
smithy's expense because you know
00:57:04
smithy's not going my ba and I remember
00:57:06
going to the Bas and reserve one day and
00:57:07
and um and I'm walking in it's an it's
00:57:11
it was about 2: in the afternoon must
00:57:12
have been a day nighter or something and
00:57:14
I got tapped on the shoulder by a lady
00:57:16
and she said my name is um I can't think
00:57:19
of a Christian name but it amounted to
00:57:21
the fact that she was smithy's Mother
00:57:22
and boy did she give it to me did she
00:57:24
give it to me and Smithy and I I've had
00:57:27
a good laugh about that in
00:57:29
the oh that's good yeah you don't mess
00:57:31
with someone's mom no no no no no oh
00:57:34
that's great um I I I I don't think I've
00:57:37
ever ever met Ian Smith but I've got
00:57:38
some friends that did a radio show with
00:57:39
them on wasn't called radio sport but it
00:57:42
was a sport station uh Dean Lan and
00:57:44
Nathan lar yes and um Smithy had work
00:57:48
usually remotely from home um and
00:57:50
sometimes they said they'll be doing
00:57:51
interviews and then they'll just hear
00:57:52
the snoring noise and it was Smithy was
00:57:55
at home and like Lazy Boy here doing the
00:57:57
show noting off to sleep classic classic
00:58:00
um what about Murray mixed you worked
00:58:02
with him for ages say oh mix what a
00:58:04
delightful BL I mean I admired mix as a
00:58:06
player um in fact I think that tour I
00:58:09
told you about in ' 84 might have been
00:58:10
mix's last tour with the all black so he
00:58:13
was a highly experienced all black and I
00:58:14
admed him because he came from the same
00:58:15
city and and he was an all black and all
00:58:17
the rest of it and then got the
00:58:19
opportunity to work with them I don't
00:58:21
think I've ever met a more passionate
00:58:23
bloke about the game of rugby he really
00:58:26
was and I often tell the story and it's
00:58:27
it's a corny old joke I know but um I
00:58:31
remember Mick saying once that he um he
00:58:34
used to dream about scrums and line outs
00:58:36
and at the time he was married to um
00:58:39
Lorraine of course who was Miss Universe
00:58:41
and I remember thinking to
00:58:43
myself if I'm married to Miss Universe
00:58:46
am I lying in bed and dreaming about L
00:58:47
outs and scrums I'm not sure I
00:58:50
am I'm not sure who I am but um no what
00:58:53
a good guy I caught up with mix just
00:58:54
recently he's in these days and um he's
00:58:58
in good shape and uh still very
00:59:00
passionate about the rugby that that is
00:59:03
that's a great o j it's a corny one when
00:59:05
your daughters hear this are they're
00:59:06
going to tell you off well they may have
00:59:08
heard it before um why was he why why
00:59:13
was he so polarizing I I'm just trying
00:59:14
to think back I suppose when he was when
00:59:16
you were working with him it was kind of
00:59:18
like pre social media as we know it now
00:59:20
but there were like lists that used to
00:59:22
go around of like gaffs that he made on
00:59:24
commentaries and yeah
00:59:26
yeah what do you think it was about him
00:59:28
you took Ma wats and all um you know he
00:59:30
wasn't a trained broadcaster so
00:59:32
sometimes the right words didn't
00:59:33
necessarily come out but the boy the
00:59:35
passion was always there um yeah some
00:59:38
people are cruel aren't they I mean I I
00:59:40
to this day think he was now standing
00:59:42
commentator and and I won't deviate on
00:59:45
that at all um and he was just so
00:59:48
passionate that sometimes maybe the
00:59:50
right word didn't come in the right
00:59:51
place and all the rest of it but uh you
00:59:53
just couldn't you just couldn't fault
00:59:55
him
00:59:56
for his love and passion of the game oh
00:59:59
that's a wonderful endorsement yeah so
01:00:01
that list you you must know the list I'm
01:00:03
talking about it was like yeah so when
01:00:05
he says things like it's all tied up at
01:00:06
1413 he he definitely said all those
01:00:08
things oh probably I I don't remember
01:00:10
that one in particular but yeah there've
01:00:12
been a few there' been there's one like
01:00:14
Andy Ellis he's a 21 year old that just
01:00:16
turned
01:00:18
22 yeah there's a list there's a list
01:00:20
goes around of it's not just mix there's
01:00:22
a whole lot of strange ones you know of
01:00:24
what people have said and you got to
01:00:26
remember what we're doing here is an ad
01:00:27
lib you don't get to practice it you
01:00:30
know once once the game starts the game
01:00:32
rugby starts it's an 80-minute ad lib
01:00:34
you can write all you like before the
01:00:36
game you know hi everyone welcome to the
01:00:37
show blah blah blah and and the team
01:00:40
sheets are all written out for you but
01:00:42
the moment the referee Blows the Whistle
01:00:44
it becomes an ad lib and sometimes the
01:00:46
right things don't come out and I'm
01:00:47
being I've been guilty of it myself
01:00:50
wrong TR scorers wrong this wrong that
01:00:52
once started a super rugby season there
01:00:54
used to be a guy uh he was a legend and
01:00:56
broadcasting called patio donnal I don't
01:00:59
know whether you remember the name but
01:01:00
anyway um it goes back a we bit um and I
01:01:04
for some reason had ptio Donald's name
01:01:06
on my brain and it was the first game of
01:01:08
Super Rugby let's say it was 2005 or
01:01:11
whatever I don't know first game of
01:01:13
Super Rugby so we want to get everything
01:01:14
right and the referee was um one of our
01:01:17
better referees over the years a guy
01:01:19
called Patti O BR and so I the moment he
01:01:22
blew the whistle I said and referee ptio
01:01:25
Donald blows the whistle and the Super
01:01:27
Rugby season and I suddenly thought oh
01:01:29
my god I've blown it in the very first
01:01:31
sentence of the
01:01:34
season first sentence of the season I've
01:01:36
got the referee wrong oh my God how do
01:01:39
you yeah how do you um yeah how how do
01:01:42
you put that behind you and move on oh
01:01:44
you just have to I've I've learned to
01:01:48
ignore it actually um because you make
01:01:51
it worse by correcting
01:01:52
yourself um not always but if if I'd
01:01:56
gone back and said oh I'm sorry uh the
01:01:58
referee is not p p I'm just making a
01:02:00
bigger issue of it highlighting it yeah
01:02:02
and and a lot of people were sitting at
01:02:03
home did he really say no probably not
01:02:06
anyway and the game carries on and
01:02:07
scrums and line outs and tries and
01:02:09
they've forgotten about it by then but
01:02:11
if I'd if I'd
01:02:13
overcorrected I would have just made
01:02:15
made a total clown on myself but I I did
01:02:18
um reasonably thorough search on you
01:02:21
like I looked on Tik Tok I looked on
01:02:23
your Google videos I looked everywhere
01:02:26
typed in all sorts of things like um
01:02:27
niso gffs niso bloopers I couldn't find
01:02:31
anything oh really yeah have you is
01:02:33
there anything that brings to mind that
01:02:34
you're prepared to you you this is
01:02:37
probably part of the reason you've been
01:02:39
there for for like for 350 T it's
01:02:42
nothing nothing ridiculous um I mean
01:02:45
we've all been in those situations um
01:02:49
but maybe because I didn't correct
01:02:51
myself maybe I've got away with
01:02:54
it I don't know it's a strategy that's I
01:02:57
mean there wouldn't be a season go by
01:02:58
that I don't do half a dozen wrong Tri
01:03:00
scores yeah and and you don't like that
01:03:03
you don't like that you like to be
01:03:04
accurate um because people are sitting
01:03:06
at home going is he watching a different
01:03:08
game to us and um look I'm sure there is
01:03:12
I'm sure there are some bloopers out
01:03:14
there but I can't off the top of my head
01:03:17
think of any and what about the um oh I
01:03:20
had your um your friend um Justin
01:03:22
Marshall we'll get to Maria in a second
01:03:24
yeah on the podcast and um he about um
01:03:26
me oh my yes boy yes and he was he was
01:03:29
about to say oh my God and then he self
01:03:31
censored because he wasn't sure if he
01:03:32
could say God and yeah yeah um so that
01:03:35
sort of became like a viral moment for
01:03:36
him well it's a trademark isn't it now
01:03:38
when you when you hear it you if anyone
01:03:40
else used it you'd say oh come on you
01:03:43
you're borrowing it off or you flogging
01:03:44
it off mashy yeah he's um that's good I
01:03:49
I really enjoy it when he well and uses
01:03:51
it sparingly when things are when things
01:03:54
um you know really come to a crescend a
01:03:56
lot of games are Philly mundane and one
01:03:58
team beats the other by lots and it
01:04:00
doesn't get too exciting so you just
01:04:02
have to treat it the way it is but when
01:04:04
you need when you need some highp stuff
01:04:07
uh which Mari can produce at times um
01:04:10
why not why not well but you could have
01:04:12
done that with um you bet you right you
01:04:14
was that in um was that in the the game
01:04:16
that's known as the game of the century
01:04:18
yeah that was the one where Jonah scored
01:04:19
yeah I don't know where that came from
01:04:21
and I've never I don't think I've ever
01:04:23
used it since I don't know why um so
01:04:26
what did you say uh Jonah's in you bet
01:04:29
you you bet you no Kenny because tan
01:04:33
rold from the ball and I said I I can't
01:04:35
remember now what the completely what
01:04:37
the circumstances were but it just came
01:04:40
it just came out of the blue I don't
01:04:41
know I think it was probably the fact
01:04:44
that Jonah was within uh within 10
01:04:47
meters of he was always going to score
01:04:50
it because there was only one at the
01:04:53
time there was only one player in World
01:04:54
rugby who was is 100% going to score it
01:04:57
I mean there was still a couple of
01:04:59
players to beat but you just knew that
01:05:01
he was going to beat them so I I must
01:05:03
have POS the question can he do it or
01:05:06
what you bet you you bet you yeah yeah
01:05:08
yeah so then you have something like
01:05:10
that which becomes um I suppose like a
01:05:12
viral moment for the time um then why
01:05:14
don't you stick with it and repeat it
01:05:16
well will Jordan you bet I know yeah no
01:05:19
I've never thought about it actually you
01:05:21
don't put too much thought into no I
01:05:23
don't in fact I learned a lesson um back
01:05:25
in
01:05:26
1996 in South Africa I thought if if we
01:05:30
create history here I need to be able to
01:05:33
um say something eloquent and and for
01:05:37
the occasion when the final whistle
01:05:39
blows and so I did I WR out you know
01:05:42
they've been trying since 1923 blah blah
01:05:46
blah and I've got my head down and mean
01:05:48
in the meantime everything's unfolding
01:05:50
on the field cuz it was dramatic there's
01:05:52
no doubt about it you remember you
01:05:54
remember the Test match where he's
01:05:55
banging a hand on the ground Marsh's
01:05:57
jumping around it was all drama we first
01:05:59
ever series but so I wrote this thing
01:06:02
down but when I listened when I got home
01:06:04
and listened to it back I thought nah
01:06:06
that sounds like a bloke who's reading
01:06:08
something I've never done it since never
01:06:10
done it since so I just try and go with
01:06:13
the moment and and and and so there's
01:06:16
nothing really memorable not like Peter
01:06:19
Montgomery's you know the America cup is
01:06:21
now New Zealand's
01:06:23
cup yeah yeah and people would tell you
01:06:26
that too but it was appropriate at the
01:06:28
time but Ying's a bit different to rugby
01:06:30
you know we were going to win the
01:06:31
America's Cup we probably won that race
01:06:33
by four or five minutes or something so
01:06:36
it's going at a much slower Pace in
01:06:38
rugby you know things are happening at
01:06:40
100 milph and you're not quite sure how
01:06:43
you're going to deliver the line at the
01:06:44
time but I mean it was totally
01:06:46
appropriate what he did and it's iconic
01:06:48
um but I in rugby I just I I listened to
01:06:52
it and I thought no I'm not going to do
01:06:53
that again yeah well you might um I
01:06:55
don't know if you're involved in this
01:06:56
game or if if not you you might know the
01:06:58
backstory but um uh Andrew Mulligan was
01:07:02
a guest on the podcast last week and he
01:07:04
told me that the KE the famous Keith
01:07:05
Quin line the oh oh oh llu he said Keith
01:07:09
dropped a bit of paper or something he
01:07:10
did he did I was I was um I wasn't
01:07:12
commentating the game but I was at the
01:07:14
game funny enough in Cape Town and um i'
01:07:18
we tvz that's right we were kind of
01:07:20
sharing things and I'd done the game the
01:07:22
previous day in Durban so I was kind of
01:07:25
a spectator and this game was in Cape
01:07:26
Town and that's right exactly he had
01:07:29
written something down and put all all
01:07:32
all legs and power and pump and pump and
01:07:35
and he had lost a bit of paper and and
01:07:37
he's graveling around trying to find it
01:07:38
as Jonah goes over about his fourth try
01:07:40
of the game and in the Finish he he
01:07:43
couldn't find it and and that's how very
01:07:45
famous very famous yeah in the end it
01:07:47
weed out for the be right it's iconic
01:07:49
yes it is yes it is yeah but I think I
01:07:51
guess it was a kind of a
01:07:54
mistake yeah blver in the best possible
01:07:56
way yeah so did you did you know Jonah
01:07:59
personally did you have did your paths
01:08:01
cross no I didn't I couldn't honestly
01:08:03
say I knew him personally I knew him to
01:08:05
interview like a lot of All Blacks um
01:08:07
you know I've interviewed most of them
01:08:09
but in terms of personally no not at all
01:08:11
no I'm just to say good day and you know
01:08:14
here you go yeah it's crazy he like I
01:08:17
mean yeah there's so much Mystique
01:08:18
surrounding him I just I basically
01:08:21
anyone that's got anything to do with
01:08:22
rugby at all in any capacity when they
01:08:24
come on the podcast I ask them if
01:08:25
they've a Jonah story just in case most
01:08:27
of them do like Josh cronfel they were
01:08:29
movie Buddies together you'll have
01:08:30
someone that bought a you know bought
01:08:32
Jonah a car when they were young or
01:08:34
Mills Mila said the day before a sevens
01:08:36
final Jonah took him to KFC and Mills
01:08:38
was a young player he said oh we
01:08:40
shouldn't go and and Jonah was like oh
01:08:41
don't worry about it I'll take care of
01:08:42
touch and then they lost the game the
01:08:44
next day there's just all these and I
01:08:47
don't know I don't know if some of the
01:08:48
stories are getting embellished with the
01:08:49
passage of time but um it just creates
01:08:52
oh he was a he was a superstar there's
01:08:54
no question about that yeah but but I I
01:08:56
couldn't honestly say that I knew him
01:08:58
other than to take it a to yeah yeah
01:08:59
yeah and what about back to back to Mary
01:09:02
Justin Marshall why um why is he the
01:09:04
most polarizing rugby pundit perhaps
01:09:07
ever it's interesting isn't it and mix
01:09:09
was the same I mean um people have got
01:09:12
their opinions and uh and there's no
01:09:14
gray area here people are either black
01:09:16
or white and mix suffered the same
01:09:19
problem and as you mentioned earlier
01:09:21
probably not so much through social
01:09:23
media because there wasn't as much but
01:09:25
cor Mari stepped in when social media I
01:09:28
don't know um and I know that when he
01:09:30
first joined us he was um you know he
01:09:32
was actually commentating guys he played
01:09:35
with and he found that very awkward I
01:09:37
mean he he's probably explained all this
01:09:39
to you himself he found that very
01:09:41
awkward and I I believe that the
01:09:44
Crusaders weren't very happy because he
01:09:45
often took the different Tac because he
01:09:48
wanted to feel as though he was uh he
01:09:50
was neutral and he didn't want to be
01:09:52
seen to be an ex Crusader in the
01:09:54
broadcast
01:09:56
and and and they felt that maybe he went
01:09:58
too far the other way um but look I I've
01:10:01
got no problem at all with Mary I once I
01:10:04
said to him when he joined us I said
01:10:05
mate you're a you're a bit of an
01:10:07
arrogant prick when you played for the
01:10:09
All Blacks and he agreed and he said did
01:10:11
you say that I said that to him yeah you
01:10:14
know and and he agreed with me he said
01:10:16
yeah and he said maybe that's what made
01:10:18
me what I was um but he's not that he's
01:10:21
not that sort of person but that was the
01:10:23
Persona that he um that he displayed um
01:10:27
he didn't talk to Sky for a we while and
01:10:30
it was after the uh and I think you and
01:10:32
I might have talked about this in the
01:10:33
car on on the way from the airport too
01:10:35
where he stood on he stood on Barron
01:10:37
Kell's hand yeah and I just happened to
01:10:40
be the commentator at the time and I
01:10:41
condemned it widly uh I said you know
01:10:44
that's just not on blah blah blah blah
01:10:46
blah and Mary obviously saw the tape and
01:10:48
thought well I'm not going to I'm not
01:10:50
going to um talk to those
01:10:52
Pricks and um and he admits it he
01:10:54
absolutely you miss it yeah yeah have
01:10:56
you ever had a runin with a player over
01:10:58
the time where you've said something and
01:10:59
then they they bail you up in a hotel
01:11:01
left hotel lobby or no no no I haven't
01:11:04
actually um because you you generally
01:11:07
just sort of seem to I mean I haven't
01:11:08
seen all 350 of you test but you seem to
01:11:10
just like call what you see and it's not
01:11:12
well that's television um people at home
01:11:15
make their own calls I mean people are
01:11:17
sitting at home they can see things
01:11:19
happening and they don't need me to have
01:11:22
an opinion on them um I differ from
01:11:24
others pap in that regard um I sort of
01:11:28
stay out of that I mean the Keller herb
01:11:31
Marshall thing um was so damn obvious
01:11:34
that it had to be mentioned it had to be
01:11:36
at least mentioned you can't ignore
01:11:38
these things but
01:11:41
um yeah look I try and stay out of that
01:11:44
sort of thing because as I say don't
01:11:46
insult the viewer by telling them things
01:11:48
they can already see and that's the
01:11:50
difference between TV and radio I often
01:11:52
say to Young aspiring TV commentators
01:11:55
we don't want a radio commentary we can
01:11:57
see it we can see it we don't need a
01:11:59
radio commentary and um hopefully they
01:12:02
listen your yeah radio comment is a very
01:12:04
different skill set it's like um theater
01:12:06
of the mine you're painting a picture
01:12:07
correct um but with the picture there
01:12:09
yeah I mean if I sit in the car if I
01:12:11
happen to be an account there's rugby
01:12:12
game on and I'm listening to it I want
01:12:14
to know I want to know um because I'm
01:12:18
I've got my as you say your mind's ey I
01:12:20
want to know which team's playing left
01:12:21
or right so I can see the field and then
01:12:24
the only two other things I need to know
01:12:25
the score on a regular basis and the
01:12:27
time gone or time to go that are the
01:12:30
only three things you can and and the
01:12:33
number of times you sit there and you've
01:12:35
just got in the car and the game's been
01:12:36
going 10 minutes what's the score please
01:12:39
give me the score you know I drives your
01:12:42
mad mad the nature of radio like people
01:12:44
running out of their cars every couple
01:12:46
minutes you need to it seems punishing
01:12:48
if you're doing it but you need to do
01:12:49
that reset every couple of minutes um
01:12:52
yeah what's your personal relationship
01:12:53
with um criticism being like over the
01:12:56
years and in particular with like social
01:12:58
media have you largely like Got Away
01:13:00
unscathed or not unscathed no there's
01:13:02
always someone out there who's prepared
01:13:04
to have a crack um I don't I mean I
01:13:06
don't reply to it if I see it I just see
01:13:08
it um no my my involvement in social
01:13:12
media is nothing on Twitter um never
01:13:16
have been I've got a what do you call
01:13:18
them a Facebook account but um I don't I
01:13:21
would have posted over over how many
01:13:23
years maybe five
01:13:26
things I normally like things wish
01:13:28
people happy birthdays uh and that's
01:13:31
pretty much it oh [ __ ] it's great for
01:13:32
birthday remind us there a what so so
01:13:35
handy there a what yeah yeah um okay 350
01:13:39
tests what changes in the game over that
01:13:41
time good and
01:13:42
bad um The Game's become more defensive
01:13:47
uh I remember when super ugy first
01:13:48
started we were getting scores like 42
01:13:50
37 and um the game has become uh it's
01:13:55
quite hard to penetrate now if a team
01:13:57
decides to be defensive then it's pretty
01:14:00
hard to uh to break them down but I'm
01:14:02
still I'm still pretty positive about
01:14:04
the game changes in the game um like
01:14:08
when I first started you were still
01:14:10
having to jump in the line outs you
01:14:12
could kick the ball out on the full
01:14:14
pretty much anywhere on the field if you
01:14:15
wanted to I mean there's been a lot of
01:14:17
tinkering um but uh it still remains to
01:14:22
me the Ultimate Team game um everybody's
01:14:24
got to be playing well you can't get
01:14:25
away with your halfback having a bad day
01:14:27
it's bit like working in TV if the
01:14:29
commentator is having an off day it
01:14:30
drags the whole broadcast down if the
01:14:33
Cameron aren't going well you know these
01:14:35
are these are Ultimate Team games um
01:14:37
there's a few things about rugby I don't
01:14:39
like I particularly don't like the
01:14:40
rolling mall I never have I just think
01:14:43
that it defies all the logic of rugby
01:14:46
like the BLS in front of the ball
01:14:48
carrier are all offside um plus you
01:14:51
can't tackle the ball carry you can't
01:14:53
get to him for a start off um so there's
01:14:55
a few things in rugby that I don't like
01:14:57
but it it's still to me is the Ultimate
01:14:59
Team game anyway and for you pregame
01:15:02
prep what does that look like for
01:15:04
example I think like say say the All
01:15:05
Blacks are playing it's a World Cup and
01:15:07
they're playing a team like um I don't
01:15:08
know like Georgia for example you with
01:15:12
you know like you look at the Georgian
01:15:13
team list and it's like I don't know I
01:15:15
get anxiety just looking at it funny as
01:15:17
should say that because before the 215
01:15:19
World Cup we were playing Georgia and I
01:15:21
knew that before I left home and I also
01:15:23
knew that down at the local bar shop in
01:15:25
K in Wellington there was a Russian lady
01:15:28
and I said to her one day I said um do
01:15:31
you mind if I give you spend 10 minutes
01:15:33
talking about um some pronunciations and
01:15:35
she she kindly agreed and she set me
01:15:39
right on all these Georgian names um you
01:15:41
just you just Cobble it together as best
01:15:43
you can really um because it has got
01:15:45
harder over the years and particularly
01:15:47
World Cups where you're not always doing
01:15:48
the All Blacks you might be doing a game
01:15:50
between Fiji and say Italy or something
01:15:52
so uh some of the names you know
01:15:55
familiar with and you just you just talk
01:15:57
to people uh I've even been known more
01:15:59
than once to ring embassies uh the
01:16:02
French Embassy and Wellington have often
01:16:03
had phone calls from me how do you
01:16:05
pronounce this and um wow because I
01:16:08
think you've you've got to get it right
01:16:11
um because you got to respect the people
01:16:13
involved you know they they they um and
01:16:16
I and I don't always get it right but I
01:16:18
Endeavor to um I think that's all anyone
01:16:20
can ask because their parents are
01:16:22
watching their family's watching and and
01:16:23
if you mispronouncing their name all the
01:16:25
time it's just I I just it's just wrong
01:16:29
you know so how how do you do that you
01:16:30
write it out phonetically yeah I do I do
01:16:32
I write it out phonetically exactly
01:16:34
exactly so when you glance down you can
01:16:36
pretty much work it out straight away if
01:16:37
you'd left it in its in its raw form
01:16:40
you'd be no better off yeah and so uh
01:16:42
yeah that's precisely what I do so so um
01:16:45
do you do like over the years has your
01:16:46
pregame prep got less and less and less
01:16:48
as you get more comfortable or nice do
01:16:50
do you have the same sort of routine or
01:16:51
structure I still do it if I can the day
01:16:55
before the game so if we tests on a
01:16:57
Saturday I do everything on the Friday
01:16:59
because the teams are announced usually
01:17:01
late Thursday or early Friday so you've
01:17:03
got plenty of time to do that so that
01:17:05
leaves Match Day free to do other things
01:17:07
and not you know concentrate too much on
01:17:10
the game I sound like a player when I'm
01:17:11
doing this but um so that's been my
01:17:14
that's been my um pattern no I I'd spend
01:17:17
probably the equal amount of time on um
01:17:20
as I did now as I did when I first
01:17:22
started wow yeah oh he still must love
01:17:26
it you have to you have to have a
01:17:27
passion for it I tell you what there are
01:17:29
games where you sometimes think what am
01:17:30
I doing here and you and you um you
01:17:33
there are some d games right and and you
01:17:35
can't there's nothing you can do about
01:17:37
it and you can't make a what's the old
01:17:39
saying a silk purse out of a s you can't
01:17:42
you can't make rolling a [ __ ] and
01:17:44
glitter uh yeah you can't make it better
01:17:46
and people at home are looking there
01:17:47
thinking this is the worst game in the
01:17:49
history of man they don't need a
01:17:50
commentator telling them it's a great
01:17:52
game and sadly and sad L there are
01:17:56
commentaries that I listen to sometimes
01:17:58
from across the te on another sport
01:18:00
whether they're telling me this is one
01:18:02
of the great games of all time and I'm
01:18:03
thinking you are watching a different
01:18:05
game than me pal you are absolutely what
01:18:07
because they try to be
01:18:09
salesman um and that's not our job uh
01:18:12
our job is to be honest and reflect
01:18:15
what's actually happening on the field
01:18:16
because the viewer is no fool if you try
01:18:19
and tell them it's a great game and it
01:18:20
ain't a great game they're going to say
01:18:22
you are drer so how many many pages of
01:18:25
notes would you go into like an all
01:18:26
black test with well I I do both teams
01:18:29
so I have two teams sitting in front of
01:18:30
me okay like that and then um quite a
01:18:34
lot of quite a lot of scripted stuff
01:18:35
pre-match obviously you want to get that
01:18:37
right you know bumbling and fumbling and
01:18:40
talking about the weather and stuff uh
01:18:42
so you need to have all that right and
01:18:45
then I have other facts you know this
01:18:47
might be the 99th test or something I
01:18:51
don't know um I just have a lot of other
01:18:53
facts and yeah it is trivia and I um I
01:18:57
once had the privilege of speaking to
01:18:58
the great Bill McLaren who is um you
01:19:00
know AG be the highest profile rugby
01:19:02
caller of all the great Scotsman and I
01:19:05
asked him how much pre-match stuff he
01:19:07
wrote down and he said a lot he said but
01:19:10
I wouldn't use I'd be lucky if I used
01:19:13
10% of it probably 5% of it he said but
01:19:16
the very fact of writing it down and
01:19:17
it's true the very fact of writing stuff
01:19:19
down you actually sits here somewhere
01:19:22
and um you can recall it pretty quickly
01:19:24
if you have to and also if the Game
01:19:25
Stops a guy breaks a league or something
01:19:27
and there's a 10-minute Break um you've
01:19:30
got a lot more information than you need
01:19:32
but it's it's kind of an insurance
01:19:34
policy I
01:19:35
guess and yeah we're on the
01:19:40
yeah oh
01:19:42
really is it back okay um thanks J how's
01:19:47
your body temperature yeah good yeah
01:19:49
grab a bit of water yeah that's a great
01:19:52
chat by the way
01:19:55
should I leave it there or not he leave
01:19:57
it there yeah yeah you can leave it
01:19:58
there yeah okay yeah so the um the 2011
01:20:02
World Cup when Steven Donald comes on on
01:20:03
that um what was do you do you
01:20:06
commentate on that or you can the
01:20:07
viewers can see it yeah well the viewers
01:20:09
can see it yeah he's he's got a jersey
01:20:11
that's way too small for him yeah yeah I
01:20:13
mean we might have made we might I was
01:20:16
working with Grant Fox at the time so
01:20:17
foxy being an ex or black might have
01:20:19
made a comment and he was plus he was a
01:20:21
first five exactly so um yeah I mean you
01:20:25
but you don't go on about it it's I
01:20:28
would have that's the difference it's
01:20:29
like a bad decision you know um if
01:20:31
referee makes a bad decision you point
01:20:34
out if it's a if it's a glaring thing
01:20:36
but you don't go on about it for the
01:20:37
next 10 minutes um because it doesn't
01:20:41
serve any purpose and it drags the
01:20:42
broadcast down um but yeah that was
01:20:45
iconic I mean that it'll always be
01:20:47
iconic yeah so memor that whole game the
01:20:49
whole actually the whole tournament you
01:20:51
know there were there were photos on
01:20:52
social media of Aaron C Aaron cruden at
01:20:55
westpack Stadium having a couple of
01:20:56
beers watching a Canadian game and then
01:20:58
the next next thing you know he's called
01:21:00
up to the team and yeah Steven Donald of
01:21:03
Dan Carter going down injured and we all
01:21:04
thought oh well that's the end of us
01:21:06
without Dan Carter we're gone but it
01:21:08
just shows the depth that we could get
01:21:10
through um you know and Steve Steven
01:21:13
Donald coming back from White pting
01:21:15
which I can which which I can relate to
01:21:17
because I do a bit of white bating yeah
01:21:20
oh that's right yeah and um izy dag and
01:21:22
Corey Jane and uh um maybe that girlfri
01:21:26
as well weren't they on the sleeping
01:21:27
pills and red bulls oh yeah yeah well me
01:21:30
how we win that tournament yeah how do
01:21:32
we win it oh Richie with a broken foot
01:21:35
yes yes exact played the whole
01:21:36
tournament with a broken foot and the
01:21:38
fact that we beat France by I don't know
01:21:40
point was it yeah in the final we did
01:21:42
but in in the um in the uh round
01:21:45
robin uh I think we put 30 or 40 on them
01:21:49
and so when we came to the final we
01:21:50
thought yeah well maybe this is going to
01:21:52
be bit easy than we thought the French
01:21:55
you never know do you yeah you mentioned
01:21:57
Grand Fox um yeah you work with grand
01:21:59
Fox quite extensively yeah yeah yeah
01:22:01
absolutely yeah what can you tell me
01:22:03
about Foxy well um foxy is a real
01:22:06
student of the game and very serious
01:22:08
about the game which is fair enough um
01:22:11
but again a delight to work with a
01:22:13
really uh and of course I commentated
01:22:15
well I've commentated most of these guys
01:22:17
I commentated a lot of the stuff that um
01:22:19
foxy was involved in and um he actually
01:22:22
came in when John Drake is great m John
01:22:24
Drake passed away and uh I remember
01:22:27
talking to Foxy and um and it wasn't my
01:22:30
job to appoint him but when he was
01:22:32
appointed I had a y with him and he and
01:22:35
uh he said you know what do you need
01:22:36
from me and all the sort of things so no
01:22:38
he was fantastic and I've been really
01:22:40
lucky with all those guys that I've that
01:22:42
I've dealt with and it's it's quite
01:22:43
funny because as players you never
01:22:46
really got to know them at all as all
01:22:48
blacks I mean I don't mix socially with
01:22:50
all blacks or haven't really over the
01:22:52
years and so guys like mix and Justin
01:22:55
Marshall and Foxy and these guys they
01:22:58
were just players who I might have
01:22:59
interviewed a few times but then you get
01:23:01
to meet them as people and um you it's
01:23:04
and it's great it's fantastic did you
01:23:06
ever meet meet Ryan as a young fell
01:23:08
through no no I didn't no I never did no
01:23:10
I never did good golfer is he what yeah
01:23:14
um go these are great stories um I've
01:23:17
got about I sit on Instagram you were
01:23:18
coming in I've got a bunch of um
01:23:19
questions from um fans by the way you
01:23:22
you knew about this you're not on
01:23:23
Instagram but one of your daughters
01:23:24
took a screen I think I don't know
01:23:26
whether I'm Instagram or not I maybe I
01:23:29
don't know what I want someone wants to
01:23:30
know I don't know if you've got an
01:23:32
answer to this off the top of your head
01:23:33
but I'm sure you've been asked it a
01:23:34
million times before uh you're Allstar
01:23:36
alltime all black
01:23:38
15 oh boy no no I've never been asked
01:23:42
that I've never been asked that but I've
01:23:44
been asked who my great greatest rugby
01:23:46
player is and um he who that be yeah
01:23:49
that's Christian Kalen and um I've
01:23:51
always been pretty adamant about that
01:23:52
and people people ask you and then they
01:23:54
disagree with you well well you asked me
01:23:57
I'm telling you that's my opinion yeah
01:23:58
yeah exactly you want my opinion um
01:24:01
because I mean I've been lucky enough
01:24:02
being around the you know Michael
01:24:03
Joneses and the Dan Carters and the uh
01:24:06
marish MCCS and you name it some of the
01:24:09
great rugby players of all time but
01:24:11
Kalen to me was just something slightly
01:24:13
different and I I know you've been lucky
01:24:15
enough to chat to him and he's very
01:24:17
modest and he was quite hard to
01:24:18
communicate with when he was an all
01:24:20
black much easier these days um but he
01:24:23
could just light came up from nothing
01:24:25
and uh if he was if he was not making a
01:24:28
break he was there supporting someone
01:24:30
who had he was just unbelievable and his
01:24:33
introduction I think he scored three or
01:24:35
four tries on debut for the All Blacks
01:24:38
um he was a generational player I
01:24:41
believe yeah actually totally I think
01:24:43
yeah I think was three three on debut
01:24:45
and four the next week or four on Debo
01:24:48
and three the next week and he tells a
01:24:50
story um the flight from wherever the
01:24:54
the where wherever the game was in game
01:24:55
one to where it was in game two he but
01:24:57
Lori Ms was on the flight I think he was
01:24:59
commentating at the time oh he might
01:25:00
have been too Christian said hey well
01:25:02
Lori M said to Christian hey well on on
01:25:04
your debut only gets harder from here
01:25:06
then the next week Christian went out
01:25:07
and did it again or scored one more oh
01:25:09
okay okay great y know yeah great um
01:25:12
someone wants to know um has your voice
01:25:15
changed over the
01:25:16
decades um well I think as I said to you
01:25:19
we're all um in my early days we're all
01:25:22
kind of mentored if you like or tuted by
01:25:26
X BBC
01:25:28
announcers and as a result if you listen
01:25:31
to some of my early commentary I think
01:25:34
you'll find that I do tend to round my
01:25:36
vows off terribly well you know um
01:25:39
whereas I've now falling back into I
01:25:41
guess a kind of a typically kiwi type
01:25:44
voice so I think from that point of view
01:25:46
maybe um but other than that I I don't
01:25:49
think so I don't know other that's
01:25:51
probably for other people to judge yeah
01:25:53
I yeah I see what you're saying so the
01:25:55
voice hasn't changed but it's just the
01:25:56
communication style like it's far more
01:25:58
sort of colloquial or conversational I
01:26:00
think so yeah I think so yes yes exactly
01:26:02
um how do you feel when you watch a
01:26:04
replay of a game you've called I very
01:26:06
rarely watched them in fact I have the
01:26:10
215 World Cup final sitting on my my sky
01:26:13
at home I don't know why it's sitting
01:26:15
there but it is I've never watched it
01:26:16
again um I guess I will one day I'm not
01:26:19
sure it's your favorite game I know I
01:26:21
know I know there something about
01:26:23
knowing what happened and um who won
01:26:27
that's not very exciting it's a bit like
01:26:28
when you record something uh in the
01:26:30
middle of the night and you get up to
01:26:32
watch it and some clown Rings you up or
01:26:34
sends you a text and you look at it and
01:26:36
and they give you the score oh yeah can
01:26:40
be bothered now for 80 minutes knowing
01:26:41
that they lost or whatever happened
01:26:44
um um I sometimes just check uh and this
01:26:49
this is very sort of In-House stuff just
01:26:52
check to see that the sound is good you
01:26:53
know they the that I can be heard or the
01:26:56
crowd noise is not too loud or but I
01:26:59
don't very often go back and watch a
01:27:01
game because I think most people have
01:27:04
like a weird relationship with their own
01:27:06
voice even I found in my radio career
01:27:09
like I hated having like you know what's
01:27:11
called a consultant session or an air
01:27:12
check session yes I just you know do I
01:27:14
really sound like that yeah is is it the
01:27:16
same for you or or do do you just I kind
01:27:18
of got used to it I guess but I I know
01:27:20
in the early days uh you know when I and
01:27:23
I've still got the tape at home I don't
01:27:24
know where I ever play it because it's a
01:27:26
real toore tape and unless You' got a
01:27:28
real toore recording I've still got the
01:27:30
recording of my first ever time on air
01:27:32
um and I if I listen to that I'd go no
01:27:36
surely not that's not me that can't be
01:27:38
me oh my God this but we need to
01:27:40
preserve that we probably need some
01:27:43
um um some like alcohol on it some
01:27:46
isopropyl alcohol or something Lu it
01:27:48
yeah I know EXA I know exactly what you
01:27:50
mean I remember going out you got to get
01:27:52
that converted to a digital file before
01:27:53
it's too late 100% I remember going out
01:27:56
once we we used to have a thing called U
01:27:58
recorder u e u u i don't know how you
01:28:02
spelled it but anyway we used to take it
01:28:04
out uh on location to interview people
01:28:06
and I remember and it was a real toore
01:28:08
thing little real couple of little reals
01:28:10
I remember going out to do an interview
01:28:11
with a with a boxer or somebody uh for a
01:28:14
program I was doing on a on a Sunday and
01:28:17
um so I got to the guy and I I looked
01:28:21
down at the recorder I only had one real
01:28:24
so there was no there was no hope but I
01:28:26
was too
01:28:27
polite guess the story of my life here I
01:28:30
was too polite to say to the black hey
01:28:31
man I'm sorry uh can you wait an hour
01:28:34
I've got to go back I did the interview
01:28:36
I pretended to do the interview and said
01:28:39
thanks for much and obviously it never
01:28:42
went
01:28:43
we ridiculous I know oh my God yeah yeah
01:28:47
oh my god um oh yeah if you did listen
01:28:51
to playbacks of yourself like do you
01:28:53
just do you just hear the
01:28:54
claws uh yeah is a self critique oh yeah
01:28:58
no you why did I say that or yeah what a
01:29:02
silly word to put in that um because I
01:29:04
said to you before it's an ad lib yeah
01:29:06
so you can't prepare yourself you have
01:29:07
to react to what's happening in front of
01:29:09
you and sometimes the right word doesn't
01:29:11
come and you substitute with something
01:29:14
uh lesser and you know in hindsight you
01:29:18
can sit there on the couch and going
01:29:20
that's the word I wanted but I didn't
01:29:21
find it at the time you know silly
01:29:24
things but I think that level of care
01:29:26
that you still have it now the in your
01:29:27
70s um is is part of the reason why
01:29:30
you've had such a long and successful
01:29:31
career on well you like to get things
01:29:32
right and of course you don't I mean
01:29:34
nobody gets things right and in 80
01:29:36
minutes Players Knock the ball on they
01:29:38
throw forward passes the referees make
01:29:40
mistakes and I can tell you no
01:29:42
commentator in the history of
01:29:44
commentating has done a broadcast
01:29:45
without making mistakes and I'm I'm
01:29:48
certainly not immune to it and and I
01:29:50
make I make plenty of them and I'm often
01:29:52
aware of them um but as I say I try and
01:29:55
disguise them sometimes
01:29:56
if if they're if they're disguisable if
01:29:59
that's a word yeah um what advice would
01:30:02
you give to aspiring commentators hoping
01:30:04
to follow in your fa
01:30:06
steps um well most aspiring commentators
01:30:10
will come from radio so I think I'd just
01:30:12
go through what I've spoken to you
01:30:14
earlier about and that's remember that
01:30:16
radio and television are too entirely
01:30:18
different things you really have to you
01:30:21
have to pay respect to the fact that
01:30:23
people at home can see the pictures what
01:30:25
you're trying to do is add to the
01:30:27
pictures for them and just interpret a
01:30:28
weebit here and there uh also be very
01:30:32
aware of your comments guys because they
01:30:35
generally BLS who have played test
01:30:37
matches I've played nil test matches
01:30:39
justtin Marshall's played 81 or 82
01:30:42
whatever it is so he's the rugby expert
01:30:45
so I'm not going to pretend to overrun
01:30:47
anything he wants to say because he's
01:30:49
there for a reason he's there because he
01:30:51
is the expert so you've got to be
01:30:53
cognizant of that fact yeah um what's
01:30:56
the funniest or most unexpected thing
01:30:58
that's happened to you while on here
01:31:01
apart from Forgetting one of the real to
01:31:02
reals when interview your boxer things
01:31:05
anything this brings to mind these are
01:31:06
just some questions from Instagram yeah
01:31:08
yeah no nothing yeah nothing
01:31:10
unbelievable I mean I've been in some
01:31:12
funny positions I mean I um I think
01:31:15
probably the worst place I was on a
01:31:16
cherry picker once in a in an OB down in
01:31:20
um T it was and I health and safety
01:31:24
wouldn't allow these days but it was a
01:31:27
stinking cold souly and the only way to
01:31:28
do the commentary was toh to be up on a
01:31:30
cherry picker and it was so cold I had
01:31:34
gloves on it was so cold that you
01:31:35
couldn't I couldn't write down the score
01:31:37
and
01:31:38
scores and I could barely talk I was
01:31:41
that cold so I mean nowadays we have
01:31:44
lovely commentary boxes and all the rest
01:31:46
of it that was just yeah but that that's
01:31:48
right yeah but that was I've been in
01:31:51
some funny positions but um yeah then
01:31:53
the other ones are a little bit hard to
01:31:55
recall do you think the role of a
01:31:57
commentator is to inform entertain or
01:32:01
both uh well I think inform firstly I
01:32:04
mean you'd like to think the game
01:32:06
entertains because that's what we're
01:32:08
there for aren't we we're there for the
01:32:09
game um so yeah I mean you can be you
01:32:13
can be entertaining up to a point
01:32:15
without being a smartass um but I I
01:32:18
think the informing is probably more
01:32:20
important yeah
01:32:22
yeah yeah
01:32:24
hey thanks for answering all these it's
01:32:25
paints like a like a very clear picture
01:32:27
about who grunt ISB is and um just how
01:32:30
how how seriously you take the job and
01:32:32
how much you respect the the position eh
01:32:34
yeah and respect the game and respect uh
01:32:36
the viewers I mean uh it's a privilege
01:32:39
to be there quite clearly there's a lot
01:32:41
of people that like to be doing what
01:32:42
you're doing and you you're commentating
01:32:44
an all black test match that's a huge
01:32:46
privilege and you should never forget
01:32:48
it just some questions to close with um
01:32:50
the that's all from Instagram by the way
01:32:52
these are these are mine um um what
01:32:54
would you say the most important lessons
01:32:55
you've learned over your 73 almost 74
01:32:58
years
01:33:00
um my dear old mom once said to me uh uh
01:33:04
just be polite to everyone
01:33:07
and I am and I and and you know quite
01:33:09
often people come up to me and and start
01:33:11
hanging the comments guys the way the
01:33:14
All Blacks are playing and I just um
01:33:16
I've learned not to argue even though I
01:33:19
may disagree I just give everyone their
01:33:22
as long as it doesn't go for
01:33:24
long I give them their their time to uh
01:33:27
to vent them and uh and generally
01:33:30
speaking we we p on reasonably friendly
01:33:33
terms does it not would put me off going
01:33:36
out I think just because you know that
01:33:38
when people have got a skin full or a
01:33:39
few be that's when they're at their
01:33:41
worst yeah and that's where I I um
01:33:43
respect so much the way and and Justin a
01:33:46
mix of the two guys that I've worked
01:33:48
with the most over the years and their
01:33:50
ability in in those situations is quite
01:33:53
stagging really because you know people
01:33:55
can be quite aggressive in their
01:33:57
opinions and what have you uh but
01:33:59
they've always managed to um disarm them
01:34:01
just by being charming and being uh and
01:34:04
listening and um you know there's just
01:34:07
no point trading blows with people uh
01:34:09
when they determined that you're not
01:34:11
going to change their mind so just end
01:34:12
up um having a discussion being rational
01:34:15
and both mix and and Justin I been so
01:34:18
good at that over the years yeah well
01:34:20
thanks for giving those guys their um
01:34:22
their yeah their flowers the s afternoon
01:34:24
as well that's really cool oh they
01:34:25
deserve it yeah absolutely yeah um
01:34:28
what's the best and worst things about
01:34:29
getting older from your
01:34:30
perspective um well you I guess you're
01:34:33
over the hump you're you're closer to
01:34:35
the end than the beginning was is that
01:34:37
the worst that's the um we were talking
01:34:40
about before how you count in the future
01:34:42
will I be here for it well I guess you
01:34:44
got to age gracefully don't you and it
01:34:46
comes to everybody but um uh I guess
01:34:49
just being around is is is a bit of a
01:34:50
plus
01:34:52
um and
01:34:54
uh yeah I just think you know respecting
01:34:57
people and you know I'm I'm I'm not um
01:34:59
you know be nice to everybody I'm not
01:35:01
quite quite along those lines but um I
01:35:05
just I just what you no one no one's
01:35:07
ever said a bad I I don't think I've
01:35:08
ever heard a bad word about I think I've
01:35:10
probably got a few enemies out there I
01:35:12
don't know I mean can you snap uh no
01:35:15
I've got a pretty I don't think many
01:35:17
people have seen me lose my temper
01:35:18
totally no no I'm pretty even tempered
01:35:21
in that regard um which I'm pleased
01:35:23
about because I've seen people snap and
01:35:25
it's not a pretty sight um yeah just
01:35:29
just happy to be around mate to be
01:35:31
honest how do you how do you stay
01:35:33
positive and motivated as you age
01:35:36
um it's a good question I mean you've
01:35:38
got to have a reason to get up every day
01:35:40
and uh you got to have a plan I
01:35:44
mean you know I don't like uh
01:35:47
particularly this time of the year when
01:35:49
the sun comes up at um 5:00 or whatever
01:35:51
um and I'm awake I i' like to get up and
01:35:54
face the day you know um and do
01:35:57
something but you got to stay active I
01:35:59
mean it's it's all very well to say that
01:36:00
but um that's why I I get the newspaper
01:36:03
do the puzzles um play a few bit of BS
01:36:07
um you know I read a lot um I've got
01:36:10
interests like uh and I heard you saying
01:36:12
you um uh was it you're the second world
01:36:17
war you like the second world war or who
01:36:19
said that someone said that to us today
01:36:20
didn't they they met on the second world
01:36:22
war um anyway I I'm I made on the
01:36:25
American Civil War of all things I've
01:36:27
got endless books on the American Civil
01:36:29
War is that right yeah I know yeah who
01:36:30
would have KN crazy stuff isn't it yeah
01:36:34
um follow American politics uh you've
01:36:37
got to have interests you know you know
01:36:39
um are you what's your what's your take
01:36:41
on the current state of American
01:36:42
politics um oh it's interesting isn't it
01:36:45
it's it's interesting you know you get
01:36:48
eight years um Trump said four and he's
01:36:50
having another four um I guess if you're
01:36:52
anti-trump I'm not answer anyone really
01:36:54
I just it's different I'm not sure I
01:36:57
want to be living in America at the
01:36:58
moment but um you know he doesn't get
01:37:01
another four year term so well he
01:37:02
wouldn't anyway because he's 80
01:37:03
something now and but um it's quite a
01:37:07
complicated system and I've tried to
01:37:08
work it out and uh you know with all the
01:37:11
Electoral colleges and the midterm
01:37:13
elections and it just fascinates me
01:37:16
really I've read a lot about past
01:37:18
American Presidents um read a lot about
01:37:20
the Civil War and Lincoln when he was
01:37:22
the president during during the Civil
01:37:24
War the Americans great presidents of
01:37:26
the blacks have been around during war
01:37:27
like FDI was around during Second World
01:37:29
War and Lincoln during the Civil War
01:37:31
they regarded as possibly the two
01:37:33
greatest presidents of all time um so
01:37:36
yeah I mean I'm just sort of interested
01:37:38
in the world as as it is really actually
01:37:41
Trump came up um when we went to lunch
01:37:43
today because you we both had
01:37:44
cheeseburgers and I had a Coke Zero you
01:37:46
had a what do you have a raspberry and
01:37:47
raspberry lemonade by the way we're not
01:37:50
this isn't a youthemism that's exactly
01:37:51
what we had a raspberry lemonade and a
01:37:53
CO zero yeah um and I made a comment
01:37:55
that our diets are very similar to
01:37:57
Trump's yeah yeah exactly well he's done
01:37:59
well isn't he he's managed to stumble by
01:38:02
I tend to I was going to say I watch my
01:38:05
diet others watch it for me sometimes um
01:38:08
that uh try and try and eat healthy does
01:38:11
your does your partner keep try to keep
01:38:12
you honest yeah and good honor too yeah
01:38:14
yeah she's trying to keep me in the
01:38:16
world um if you could go back in time
01:38:19
and give some advice to your younger
01:38:21
self say 20 or 30 year old this what
01:38:23
would it be oh look I I don't know I
01:38:25
think I've been pretty lucky really I
01:38:27
mean you know I was probably an idiot of
01:38:29
my teens um you mature as you get older
01:38:33
uh no I think because I I was fortunate
01:38:36
enough to make the right career choice I
01:38:39
think a lot of people I think don't have
01:38:41
that um luxury they maybe finish up in
01:38:45
jobs that they don't particularly want
01:38:47
to be in um so it's a real pleasure to
01:38:50
be able to do something you want to do I
01:38:52
mean I guess you found that as well over
01:38:53
the years that you know you um you see
01:38:56
people heading off to work in a gray
01:38:57
suit and you think I wonder where
01:38:59
they're going and are they going to
01:39:00
enjoy it when they get there um so I
01:39:04
think I've been very lucky very blessed
01:39:06
actually yeah you spend so much of your
01:39:08
life working out you want to find
01:39:10
something you enjoy doing I I'd urge
01:39:12
that to to anyone like if you're on a
01:39:14
job now that you hate TR try and try and
01:39:16
find something else figure out what what
01:39:18
it is that's going to bring you Joy and
01:39:19
do it because um then you won't want to
01:39:21
retire you just want to you want to be
01:39:23
like
01:39:23
yeah yeah yeah oh exactly exactly uh
01:39:27
what are you most grateful for at this
01:39:28
stage of your
01:39:30
life um I guess the opportunity really
01:39:33
the opportunities that have come uh
01:39:35
through working in the in the job that I
01:39:37
have uh and the privilege as I mentioned
01:39:40
earlier to be able to sit in the hot
01:39:42
seat for so many uh all black tests
01:39:45
because the All Blacks are the ICONic
01:39:46
brand in New Zealand you you can talk
01:39:48
about and I guess um it's the thing that
01:39:52
when you go overseas people know who the
01:39:54
All Blacks are they may not know who the
01:39:56
current prime minister is um you know in
01:39:59
fact they probably
01:40:00
don't a lot of new zealanders probably
01:40:03
don't well that's right yeah that's
01:40:04
right and and you go overseas and you
01:40:06
say all blacks and then they want you to
01:40:07
do a Harker and um it's the one thing
01:40:11
that we are best known for sure we've
01:40:13
had Siran Hillary K Everest and that was
01:40:16
fantastic and we've had other you know
01:40:19
uh Rutherford split the atom blah BL
01:40:21
blah but generally speak speaking people
01:40:24
overseas identify if you say New Zealand
01:40:26
or kiwi they're likely to say either all
01:40:29
black or
01:40:31
hacker do you have any regrets or what
01:40:33
are your
01:40:35
regrets uh no honestly no no no and I
01:40:40
don't think you can you might have a
01:40:42
regret for a moment but you can't afford
01:40:45
to dwell on them you just got to move on
01:40:47
so I'd have to say
01:40:50
no you've got a good um a good grasp on
01:40:52
things he like good attitude towards
01:40:54
life and yeah I like to think that I
01:40:56
like to think that we're only giv one
01:40:58
shot at this um so you got to make the
01:41:00
most of it um some people are given more
01:41:04
opportunity than others but I really
01:41:06
Revel in stories where people have you
01:41:10
know come from nowhere and have just had
01:41:12
a
01:41:13
determination and I guess a talent and
01:41:16
they've used it and that's what I like
01:41:19
that's what I really like yeah yeah I
01:41:21
mean it's so sad to see people you know
01:41:23
that have got a talent you often see it
01:41:25
in the sports arena people you know that
01:41:27
have got a talent and I saw it when I
01:41:28
was playing uh rugby and cricket and
01:41:31
what have you at secondary school when I
01:41:33
think back to some of the stars that I
01:41:34
played with guys who are much better
01:41:36
than me who just dropped out and could
01:41:39
have been so much better you know um
01:41:42
they lacked motivation or some other
01:41:44
circumstance might have come along but I
01:41:47
love it when I see somebody who's got a
01:41:49
talent and is prepared to use it you
01:41:51
know and uh that's that's what I like is
01:41:54
that saying a hard work beats Talent
01:41:56
when talent doesn't work hard and that's
01:41:57
so true yep I agree with that yeah what
01:42:00
about what about Legacy this Bo um well
01:42:03
I guess that's what other people other
01:42:06
people like judge your legacy don't I
01:42:08
thought you'd say that none of your
01:42:09
business well no not at all no um I
01:42:13
mean uh we're not like politicians who
01:42:16
want to build a bridge and have a named
01:42:17
after them and all that sort of nonsense
01:42:19
um I stat you outside of stadium with oh
01:42:22
my God that be the worst wouldn't it um
01:42:25
well from my point of view it would be
01:42:27
um yeah look I you kind of leave the leg
01:42:30
Legacy to somebody else I think yeah
01:42:33
okay well you probably try and bet this
01:42:34
one way as well but uh it's um it's a
01:42:36
story I sh quite a bit on the podcast so
01:42:38
I I had this guy Dogan on the podcast
01:42:40
famous coaster coaster uh just recently
01:42:42
won the America's Cup as one of the um
01:42:44
the Cy Claws and he was doing a like a
01:42:46
48 hour Adventure Race and Richie mcco
01:42:48
was one of his teammates and um DG tells
01:42:51
a story that uh over overnight during
01:42:53
one of the one of the low patches Rich
01:42:55
he played a game with all his teammates
01:42:57
where they all had to come up with um
01:42:59
three words that they like um people to
01:43:02
use to describe them at their funeral
01:43:04
three words at the funeral and um one of
01:43:07
Richie's first words was integrity and
01:43:09
DG Allon remembers thinking at the time
01:43:11
[ __ ] you know that is exactly one word
01:43:13
I'd use for the guy that he got to know
01:43:15
on that Adventure yeah what a great word
01:43:16
that is that covers that's one word that
01:43:18
covers a multitude of sins doesn't it
01:43:20
yeah um Integrity is one yeah respect
01:43:23
would be another you got to have respect
01:43:25
of everybody really um you know in
01:43:28
television if you're working and and the
01:43:29
and the crew doesn't respect you I don't
01:43:31
think you get the best results you know
01:43:33
they think he's just a [ __ ] um who's
01:43:36
hogging the Limelight um so yeah those
01:43:40
sorts of words they're nice but that's
01:43:43
as I said to you before that's for other
01:43:45
people to judge you know you know they
01:43:48
very hard to describe yourself as
01:43:49
anything you're a hard guy to podcast
01:43:52
hard guy to get my
01:43:54
um yeah but yeah what you were saying
01:43:55
about like not being a [ __ ] uh
01:43:57
another podcast guest D Henwood you know
01:43:58
the comedian yeah yeah um yeah where a
01:44:01
Chad and he he said the same thing it
01:44:02
was advice from his dad his dad was like
01:44:04
as long as you're reasonably good at
01:44:06
whatever job you're doing um if you're
01:44:08
nice to people like you will always get
01:44:10
chosen ahead of someone that's really
01:44:12
good at the job but is awful to work
01:44:14
with yeah yeah yeah yeah we don't want
01:44:17
to work work with difficult people no no
01:44:19
hey Grant but thank you so much for
01:44:21
coming on my podcast today it's been a
01:44:23
real pleasure Dom you've you've asked me
01:44:25
questions that other people haven't
01:44:26
asked me before yeah yeah and you've um
01:44:29
you've you've you've sidestep some of
01:44:31
them with the grace of Christian K and
01:44:33
96 you think i' be a
01:44:34
politician hey cheers mate love your
01:44:36
work good on you cheers thanks
