00:00:06
Christian Callen about [ __ ] time
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welcome to my podcast it's taken two
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years Dom but I finally here I feel um I
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I went throughout our text message
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exchange because you've been um since I
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started in the podcast you've been like
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super supportive and you'll message me
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from time to time about a guest that
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you've listened to and what you think of
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it and my response is the same every
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time I'll be like Oh we must get you on
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you what's what's been your standard
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response uh well I tell I usually listen
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to your podcast when I'm uh probably not
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on the gym they're a bit hard to to
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motivate and get you pumped up when
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you're doing weights and that but I
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definitely put them on when I was on the
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treadmill so you know for 40 minutes to
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an hour and listening to some of the
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people you spoken to and man interesting
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um you know some of these stories are
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you know inspirational and some of the
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cancer stories
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and you know the one I sort of got me
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going a bit was the one the
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sisted um the D when she had picked the
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date like I was going far out man how
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amazing and brave and just to tell that
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story so I just thought my story is
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like like it's I've just you know played
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a bit of rugby and like just wasn't that
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interesting like I'm quite boring like
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know yeah that's that's what you've said
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like every time you be like bro I just
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don't think I'll be as interesting as
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some of your other guests um which I
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think which made me want to get you on
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even more because it speaks a lot about
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you as a a person and just you know I
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don't know the
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humbleness well yeah I mean I guess I've
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uh yeah I've never really put myself out
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there and you know I've always said you
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know I'd walk into a you walk into a
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room and I you'd just go stand in the
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corner and and just be that guy just
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like yeah there's just nothing special
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about me really you played a bit of
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rugby and that was it and you know you
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hide away in the corner and I'm actually
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quite happy with that like just it is
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what it is you know I want my I've got
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my kids and my wife and and my golf
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clubs and
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I I'm happy with that this is amazing I
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um Jeff Wilson uh came up to me in the
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um airport lounge about a year ago and
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he just said hey mate I just want you to
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know I heard the interview you did with
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my old coach John Hart and I thought it
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was really good um and I was like Goldie
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do you want to do an episode and he's
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the same as you he was like [ __ ] no
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could not think of anything worse yeah
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yeah I mean it's quite hard say yeah I
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mean it's quite hard to talk about
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yourself right I mean it is quite hard
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and I'd rather not for some people no
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yeah okay yeah I'll get that I mean it's
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like when I did I know that you said
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that you've um you've read the book that
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I did well I didn't really do the book
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someone else wrote it and I when they
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first asked me I think it was just
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before I went to
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Ireland and they um and they asked me if
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I wanted to do a book and I said really
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like man that's like going to get him
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blood out of of a stone like it's going
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to be quite hard and John maton to his
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credit he's not with us anymore old uh
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old Johnny boy but I mean he he did a
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great job and obviously there's a lot of
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interviews and a lot of talking to other
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people and and my parents I guess to
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their credit since I've started playing
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man right from the Junior stuff like
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have kept articles and you know now how
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you can um you can you go to games and
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you just get your phone out now and
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video like the old man used to have the
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big the big handicap the big camera VCR
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you know and just the video game they
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they just kept everything from from day
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dot so there's a lot of information
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there that I guess stuff that I don't
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know and stuff that I've forgotten so um
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that was a massive help and and now they
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actually they do it to my kids like
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anything that comes out that you know
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and it's you know School awards and all
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those all all that sort of stuff so it's
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pretty cool but yeah I just just do not
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like really talking about myself or
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whatever reflect well reflecting yeah I
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mean just all that stuff like I'd rather
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just sit in the corner if someone says
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something that you did i' say yeah no
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okay yeah that's just so cool it's it's
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it's it's really cool and really
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refreshing and part of me feels bad um
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that I dragged you up here Kicking and
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Screaming today when I wasn't wasn't
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quite that severe but you know you you
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and I we've got a lot of a lot of
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history and um I know that you this is
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probably your least favorite way to
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spend a day so I do appreciate you being
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here and doing this yeah well I've known
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you for quite a while uh I couldn't call
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you B because I've known you for quite a
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while but from the Ping North day so I
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mean you know I guess you know what I'm
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like and
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um yeah I mean it's like even at my
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wedding when you had to help me I didn't
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even hadn't even written a
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um written of do you know what I mean
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yeah yeah written the speech before and
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you had to help me do that and it's just
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yeah something that
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uh I've never really been I've never
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really enjoyed it I never you know
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that's why I was actually surprised
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actually when I did some I work cuz I
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just that just something that was no way
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man I don't want to be on TV talking
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about rugby or well I just just yeah I'd
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rather be on the golf course but you you
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understand like you are um like an
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enigma like to like there's so much
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curiosity about you there there's so
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much love for you and what you've done
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um like the amount of people that would
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say you you're their favorite player I
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said on Instagram yesterday you're
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coming there was someone that's got a a
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son that they called Kalen there was
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another guy that said has has ifos
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password's always been 1515 because of
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you like um you you must feel that when
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you're when you're out and about
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interacting with people oh yeah I mean
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yeah I've always liked to keep a low
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profile but it's really nice um yeah
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when people come up and whether it's uh
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more the mom and dads and said that you
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know I've met a few cullins around the
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traps and a few Christians and uh and
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all that sort of stuff so that's nice
00:05:55
that you know when you play it and
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people love watching you play and I
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guess it's the one thing
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when you run out on onto the field and
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you know with no
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um social media or anything back then
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was people would come to you directly
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and that that was always you got the
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good and the bad eh but that was always
00:06:15
really nice to say oh you know you're
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the favorite player and you know used to
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love how you used to play and so that's
00:06:19
I mean that's nice and and even today
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it's I mean it is nice it's nice to to
00:06:24
know that um people appreciated what you
00:06:27
did and especially nice when your kids
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are with you and someone comes up to you
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and goes oh remember we used to play cuz
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your kids kids don't believe
00:06:34
you what do you mean this YouTube now
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well lucky there is YouTube CU I said
00:06:38
you know I always say my kids cuz they
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always um especially my daughter cuz
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she's into into the rugby at the moment
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loves it
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Dylan and I think I scored a try against
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New South Wales and I dropped the ball
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over the line it's probably the one one
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time I ever dropped the ball over the
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line and she always gives me [ __ ] about
00:06:55
it and I said well I don't you you you
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haven't played 58 TV blacks have you
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and should have been more damn it should
00:07:03
have been more um I've been looking for
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seant I just need like verification on
00:07:08
this so you gave me this jersey um years
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ago is this the jersey that you wore and
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the the gold medal match at the 1998
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Comm North games in kumpa possibly has
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it got anything on I mean most some of
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them have them on the sleeve I don't
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know like the all black ones yeah they
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have it embroidered on the sleeve but I
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mean sevens back in 90 I think this is
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998 right when we won the gold medal
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they don't have anything like old
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school quite I just need verification
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because if I'm going to sell it on
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Jersey
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Hunter you're going to sell it my God
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and know one size fits all back then but
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yeah quite possibly that's um yeah that
00:07:48
that could be that could be it possibly
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what have you done there was a time
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where was your family home in Tilly
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Street Tilly Road til Road in and your
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dad had like a your mom and dad had like
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a room and with all your jerseys like
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from early years yeah yeah even like the
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central Vikings the whole are you um
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memorabilia guy have they still got all
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the jerseys have you got some gear what
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are you do with them uh yeah I've got
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well when they moved out of park got to
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the Big Smoke and pumu um yeah obviously
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packed up the room and like to be honest
00:08:19
like a lot of the I'm not no like so you
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go around a house now I haven't got any
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jerseys up on the walls or anything like
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that um Mom Dad they've got some jerseys
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and stuff in their garage
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but a lot of them were just pretty much
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put into um boxes and and bags and put
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in the um in the attic and then we had a
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golf tournament a couple years ago and
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um raising money for um the rugby
00:08:43
foundation
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and uh yeah I just said oh I might have
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a few jerseys I might have a look have a
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look around and so I got up to the attic
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and like AR can they been in there since
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since they moved out of par so it could
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have been 10 years 15 years and pulled
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them out and um I was like far out there
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was there was heaps of them um and then
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pulled some out you know there's a
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jersey there that you know number 11
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obviously I'd swapped with joner at some
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stage and and he signed it so stuff like
00:09:10
that was pretty cool so you know we
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poked that up for auction in the in the
00:09:13
um in the golf tournament you know got
00:09:15
15K from a from a phone bidder so that
00:09:17
sort of stuff but was was pretty cool
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but I'd never I'd never looked at them
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never don't sit there at night going oh
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man look at those look at those jerseys
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so we we actually my parents just got
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online and actually gave away a lot of
00:09:31
the training jerseys and um not not the
00:09:34
plane ones I I just had had to folder
00:09:37
them up and I took the ones out that I
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wanted like the first test and there's a
00:09:41
few special ones that whatever they
00:09:44
might mean something later on you know
00:09:45
the special test matches and then pretty
00:09:47
much over the years they've just been
00:09:49
they're not in the Attic now they're
00:09:50
just in a Cupboard and so I said to the
00:09:52
kids you know the other day they just go
00:09:54
through them and take whatever ones they
00:09:57
want so you know have my boy one of them
00:10:00
wearing a money somi one to whatever
00:10:03
he's wearing that round and Dylan's
00:10:05
taking jerseys and they've got some up
00:10:06
on their walls and yeah so yeah I don't
00:10:10
you're just not the slightest but
00:10:11
sentimental are you not really no not
00:10:13
really like I've always I always thought
00:10:15
like I wanted to keep my first my first
00:10:18
ever um first ever
00:10:20
Jersey and then it's funny you want to
00:10:22
keep your last one but you never know
00:10:23
when your last test is going to be
00:10:25
right um so yeah I think I I definitely
00:10:29
have the first one against Samar and and
00:10:32
Nate but that that's still there and um
00:10:36
I'm pretty sure I've got I'm pretty sure
00:10:38
I've got the last one but I don't know
00:10:39
it might be in the bag somewhere and
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then there's there's ones in between
00:10:42
that um and I've got heaps of like s
00:10:44
afcan jerseys which are cool and the
00:10:45
Aussie ones and you know saman Fiji I've
00:10:48
got heaps of the other International
00:10:50
Teams that we um that we used to play so
00:10:52
yeah they're just in a bag [ __ ] there's
00:10:55
um there's so much to unpack and talk
00:10:57
about here um first of all nice easy
00:11:01
question um rugby or golf which game do
00:11:03
you prefer more uh
00:11:07
golf and
00:11:09
like yeah I don't know I mean rugby was
00:11:12
cool right but golf is uh well you're
00:11:15
you're obsessed with golf I I love golf
00:11:17
but the one thing with golf that I guess
00:11:20
unless you're playing on a pro circuit
00:11:21
you in a tournament like I always say
00:11:24
people go do do miss rug and I go well I
00:11:26
don't miss the Monday to Friday and the
00:11:28
grind that um that goes with it but what
00:11:30
you do Miss is just that um that buzz
00:11:34
you get when you run out in front of a
00:11:36
when there used to be full stadiums when
00:11:38
you run out you know whether it's
00:11:40
Athletic Park or or um Sky stadium in
00:11:43
Wellington and it's just that feeling
00:11:44
you got like or when you made a big run
00:11:47
or or scored a try like you miss that
00:11:50
you cannot get that like I've had one
00:11:52
hole in one and playing golf but you're
00:11:55
with three other mates and it's just
00:11:57
quite it's not the same like
00:11:59
in a hole in one and you walk up yeah
00:12:01
yeah you walk up to get your ball out of
00:12:03
the hole and you get a photo and that's
00:12:06
like it and then you have to play the
00:12:08
next hole and you get like a double
00:12:09
bogey after hole in one type thing it
00:12:11
yeah it just doesn't feel the so you
00:12:13
can't get that that's one thing you
00:12:15
can't get back and that was man I used
00:12:17
to love that that's that was cool
00:12:19
running out in front of those stadiums
00:12:21
whether as at home probably used to love
00:12:23
it even more when you're playing SFA
00:12:24
like the where the boys have just played
00:12:26
now two games two test matches in SFA
00:12:29
like that's man that's the best ever
00:12:31
running out in front of 50 60,000 people
00:12:33
that that want you to lose that's that's
00:12:36
a great feeling yeah it's Adrenaline
00:12:39
Rush that um very few people will ever
00:12:41
get to experience um yeah oh I got
00:12:44
goosebumps just hearing that that's so
00:12:46
cool you see you talk about having a
00:12:48
great run in the crowd cheering or
00:12:49
whatever but you look at old footage of
00:12:51
you like on YouTube there's like a
00:12:53
there's one clip that's like an hour
00:12:54
long and it's highlights of you try you
00:12:56
wouldn't know that you're having a great
00:12:58
time score try no yeah yeah that is true
00:13:02
yeah I mean we got to a point there
00:13:04
where yeah you score try and just get up
00:13:05
and run back I was never one for um for
00:13:07
show boting well even yeah even your
00:13:09
your book life on the run which I
00:13:10
flicked through again the other day you
00:13:12
talk about when you first joined the old
00:13:14
blacks how um you know you you were a
00:13:16
little bit iffy about Jeff Wilson
00:13:17
because he was known for his big TR
00:13:19
celebrations and you look back now he
00:13:21
was just like fist pumping it was not a
00:13:22
it was not a huge try celebration I
00:13:24
suppose for its time it was but yeah
00:13:26
yeah yeah yeah oh goty I did want to try
00:13:28
high five when he deny me I seen a
00:13:31
highlight down in dened I think we were
00:13:32
playing England and he scored a try and
00:13:34
I you see me coming behind him with the
00:13:36
with the high five but he runs off so
00:13:39
yeah I wish see you no well I wish I was
00:13:41
quick enough I to give myself a high
00:13:43
five where I see some of them do today
00:13:44
but no yeah I've just never I guess
00:13:47
never been like that I think there's one
00:13:48
point in our career when we got a bit of
00:13:51
a um a hurricane Captain hurricane
00:13:53
salute going with the hurricane boys and
00:13:56
that was probably as far as it got in
00:13:59
celebration and that was pretty you know
00:14:01
just lowy it was yeah it was you doing
00:14:02
at toana or yeah and then it sort of it
00:14:05
got into the All Blacks just with the
00:14:07
hurricane boys and then um in the 99
00:14:10
World Cup when we played France in the
00:14:12
semi-final and
00:14:13
then um one of the French Wingers
00:14:16
obviously scored a try and they they got
00:14:18
ahead and end up winning us but I
00:14:20
remember beating us I remember him
00:14:21
running back past us as in myself tner
00:14:26
and he gave us that hurricane salute and
00:14:29
I thought [ __ ] it's uh that's the last
00:14:32
time we'll be doing that so like he was
00:14:34
taking the purse like giving us that one
00:14:36
and I was going oh mate you I can't I've
00:14:38
got no comeback here but yeah so I sort
00:14:40
of stopped yeah sort of stopped
00:14:42
celebrating you just score you try don't
00:14:44
don't be a peacock and just don't be a
00:14:47
peacock just get back and and get on
00:14:49
with it yeah um so celebrity Treasure
00:14:51
Island that's um that's part of the
00:14:54
reason that we finally got you on the
00:14:55
podcast um the lovely Emily from tvnz
00:14:57
publicity she sort of uh Le a and
00:14:59
organized this um yeah you messaged me
00:15:02
at the start of the Year asking about
00:15:04
Treasure Island I was like [ __ ] yeah you
00:15:07
should go on it you go on it like you
00:15:08
know when you get to our age life's kind
00:15:10
of Samy Samy it's kind of routine do you
00:15:13
um regret going on or are you happy
00:15:15
about your
00:15:16
decision you enjoy the experience yeah
00:15:19
yeah I did I mean I like as I you
00:15:21
probably know like I'm I reasonably shy
00:15:24
I don't like to talk a lot I don't
00:15:25
really like crowds I don't really like
00:15:27
new people
00:15:29
um don't really like the
00:15:31
bush you know like the couch and
00:15:34
watching a bit of Netflix
00:15:36
and just yeah sort of well what would
00:15:40
you say the Comforts of home you know
00:15:41
like it's so that this I've been asked
00:15:45
before like I got asked a year before um
00:15:48
and like the guy that text me I pretty
00:15:50
much what within 10 seconds just no
00:15:53
straight back and he laughed and he said
00:15:54
yeah I thought you would say that and
00:15:56
then this year just with a few things
00:15:59
that have gone on with um you know in
00:16:01
the family and my wife's brother and um
00:16:05
I guess the kids at at an age and so I
00:16:06
asked him
00:16:08
and um yeah they were all sort of
00:16:10
pushing me towards it then obviously i'
00:16:13
I knew that you guys have been on it and
00:16:15
and kby had been on it so just got hold
00:16:16
of a few people and and just said what
00:16:19
do you reckon and they said yeah yeah no
00:16:20
it's I me go for it
00:16:23
so yeah I wasn't I wasn't overly looking
00:16:26
forward to it like I was really under
00:16:29
appeared um how can you prepare for it
00:16:31
though other than watching
00:16:33
old yeah well I never I didn't really I
00:16:36
watched bits and pieces of it and didn't
00:16:39
yes I I kind of I knew but I didn't know
00:16:43
but um you know I was like they send you
00:16:46
the list there of what you can take on
00:16:47
the island there's no like branding and
00:16:49
that sort of [ __ ] and like all my
00:16:50
clothes are like whatever it's sub to or
00:16:51
branding I was like so have to go down
00:16:53
to henin's and buy t- so so I seriously
00:16:56
turned up with a suitcase full of gear
00:16:58
and then
00:16:59
half the [ __ ] I couldn't take and then I
00:17:01
got a army army sack and I it was half
00:17:04
for was had no clothes had crocked
00:17:07
jandals out on the first day the um the
00:17:10
tongue on them broke so like the B JP is
00:17:12
one of his jandals and so I was just had
00:17:15
I was very underprepared for what was uh
00:17:18
yeah what was going to happen but by the
00:17:21
end of it I suppose when this comes out
00:17:24
people might know how we all went is
00:17:26
that I don't know well I um yeah yeah
00:17:29
this is we're recording this on the 10th
00:17:31
of September it'll probably come out in
00:17:33
a couple of weeks so the show's the show
00:17:34
will be on for a while um so I've got no
00:17:36
idea and you're signing da so you can't
00:17:38
say anything anyway but I I've said to
00:17:40
people I think Christian will go will go
00:17:42
all right because um you're very you're
00:17:44
very measured and level-headed like you
00:17:46
don't get you don't see the Red Mist but
00:17:48
you don't get too down either you're
00:17:50
easy to be around uh physically you're
00:17:52
still very fit um challeng is you're
00:17:54
smarter than what anyone would ever give
00:17:56
you credit for you love a good puzzle
00:17:58
and some some puzzles yeah some puzzles
00:18:01
some other puzzles yeah no I mean I yeah
00:18:04
I mean I was I mean he yeah requires a
00:18:06
bit of luck though I guess a bit of luck
00:18:07
and yeah but that's probably one thing I
00:18:09
I said you before I went on like yeah I
00:18:11
am pretty pretty calm and don't get too
00:18:14
wound up and don't get too down and just
00:18:17
stay out of trouble and you know even
00:18:20
though I don't like a lot of people like
00:18:21
I I can get on with people because we've
00:18:24
sort of been in that in that environment
00:18:26
where yeah you are you meet a lot of
00:18:28
people and
00:18:29
do you know what I mean and you just you
00:18:30
can get on to and some people like I
00:18:33
have kept in contact with um in AR other
00:18:37
people you just you know if you if
00:18:38
they're not you then you just but when
00:18:40
you're in the environment you can you
00:18:42
can get on to get on so I I mean I was
00:18:44
pretty yeah and just stay out of trouble
00:18:47
don't don't cuz what I know about all
00:18:48
these shows man you get into drama and
00:18:51
then that's when uh the beginning of the
00:18:53
end that's when it sh happens yeah um so
00:18:56
what does life look like these days what
00:18:58
what like what's average day on average
00:18:59
week do you have a job I don't I don't
00:19:03
have a job uh yeah it's really it's
00:19:06
really interesting know like so when I
00:19:08
retired and come I came back from
00:19:11
Ireland and and I just said all man I
00:19:13
just want to take a year off cuz I was
00:19:14
[ __ ] like my body
00:19:16
was I was I was done like my body was
00:19:21
ankle back shoulder knee just everything
00:19:23
that could possibly feel s was was s and
00:19:26
that's yeah waking up every every day uh
00:19:30
for the last year in Island like limping
00:19:32
to the toilet and strapping up ankles
00:19:34
and just trying to grind through I knew
00:19:36
that it was was pretty much done so came
00:19:39
home and just had a year off and like
00:19:42
Through The Years though we bought a bit
00:19:43
of property and I got a um
00:19:46
partnership and and company with a good
00:19:48
MWI Dave monery and so we had properties
00:19:51
and then ended up buying commercial
00:19:53
property so we sort of dabble in that
00:19:55
and um yeah I wasn't really looking to
00:19:59
work or to to do anything I just needed
00:20:01
a year to get my body right and then um
00:20:05
because you were still young a like 30
00:20:06
31 uh2 I think when I finished I was
00:20:09
like 33 had a body of probably like a
00:20:11
50y
00:20:12
old um yeah then come back and then uh
00:20:15
look
00:20:18
uh I must have had we must have had
00:20:21
obviously practicing for kids and that
00:20:22
and then and then they just started
00:20:24
popping out well I didn't pop them out
00:20:25
but they started coming out so we pretty
00:20:27
much teamwork yeah we and then yeah then
00:20:30
it sort of we had four kids and and five
00:20:32
years
00:20:33
so and then yeah I just really that was
00:20:36
probably a big a big thing for us was
00:20:38
like they were all young and um yeah and
00:20:41
just sort of looked after the kids and
00:20:43
then I think Sky came along at some
00:20:45
stage and did a bit of Sky stuff and so
00:20:48
I've done bits and pieces went through
00:20:49
did a real estate stuff and I I started
00:20:51
off selling real estate and commercial
00:20:53
stuff for property Brokers and now um
00:20:56
that wasn't my cup of tea but do
00:20:58
Ambassador work work for property
00:20:59
Brokers so yeah I'm
00:21:02
on I'm at the stage now though where
00:21:05
yeah some weeks I get a little bit bored
00:21:08
until Friday you know when we know golf
00:21:10
is on Friday so I am I am looking around
00:21:13
but I just don't know I just don't know
00:21:15
what I just don't know what that
00:21:17
is um yeah and I know you know guys
00:21:21
today when they're through their rugby
00:21:22
careers like they they prepare you now
00:21:25
to what happens when you come out of
00:21:27
footy and is it's it's a real thing
00:21:30
right it's um we were the we were the
00:21:32
New Age Pro players and the first ones
00:21:35
to to come out of and I've learned a lot
00:21:38
since man we retired so it's you so
00:21:41
you're not so you will get into the
00:21:42
rugby stuff but your 96 was like the
00:21:44
sort of year that rugby went
00:21:45
professional and it was sort of the year
00:21:46
that you blew up so in terms of um the
00:21:49
financial side of things you could not
00:21:51
could not have timed your career any
00:21:52
better and I suppose like financial
00:21:54
literacy is one part of that um puzzle
00:21:56
as a professional player which um a lot
00:21:58
of your generation didn't get right but
00:22:00
you you did um but there's yeah there's
00:22:03
other parts of that puzzle about life
00:22:05
post rugby just finding that sort of
00:22:07
purpose yeah yeah and I mean and it's
00:22:10
it's tough
00:22:12
because cuz at one point yours your
00:22:14
something you're earning money and
00:22:15
you're with the boys every day and
00:22:16
you're training and it's all really easy
00:22:18
and then like seriously when it stops it
00:22:22
it stops like it's gone see later
00:22:25
someone else it's like you're like an
00:22:27
old chair that they just throw out
00:22:29
and then the next guy comes in that's
00:22:31
pretty much how it how it was back then
00:22:34
which is that's just how it is I
00:22:36
know things change over the over time
00:22:39
and but we were very new to that Pro
00:22:41
rugby I mean it's you know 96 it was a
00:22:45
it was pretty much professional but
00:22:47
still very much the amateur amateur
00:22:49
thinking Best of Both Worlds yeah yeah
00:22:51
so I mean I was I'd moved to palon North
00:22:54
I move moved out of home and I was up
00:22:55
there and um was living with a a guy a
00:22:59
family that was part of the the club and
00:23:01
then I went out flatting and I was
00:23:03
flatting with these three chicks and
00:23:05
like I was having corn flakes for dinner
00:23:09
and Chinese that was down the road like
00:23:12
you know but I was a pro I was I just
00:23:15
signed a contract I was working for the
00:23:16
man Rugby Union on 160 bucks a week and
00:23:19
then what I think the one of the first
00:23:22
contracts after
00:23:23
the after the 95 World Cup Russia and Jo
00:23:26
Hobs and that were going around the
00:23:27
country to um cuz obviously the other
00:23:30
competing um with rot Murdoch and all
00:23:34
that were trying to start up another
00:23:35
league so nzr we're going around signing
00:23:37
up all these young fellas so my I went
00:23:39
from 160 a week to 160 I think it was
00:23:42
160 Grand a year or something like that
00:23:44
so yeah I mean my corn flakes turned
00:23:46
into Chinese and some other stuff but
00:23:49
yeah but we never really knew I was
00:23:51
lucky that I had my parents and a few
00:23:52
other people that I met along the way
00:23:55
that yeah we I lived a pretty simple
00:23:58
life I thought like you got a car from
00:24:01
Ford so you didn't need to buy a car
00:24:03
yeah I was
00:24:04
renting um and then I ended up buying a
00:24:06
house in paly that yeah you you you
00:24:08
bought a house in hu which is like the
00:24:10
um the Remy weer of pal North not bad
00:24:12
for like a 19y old yeah yeah so I mean I
00:24:15
don't know but I mean could I done that
00:24:16
without my parents and some other good
00:24:18
mates along the way I don't know I don't
00:24:20
know yeah I don't know if I would have
00:24:22
gone out and buying big big flash cars
00:24:23
or anything like that but yeah just
00:24:26
we're on the road of day playing sevens
00:24:27
and and 15s and so it's hard to I think
00:24:31
it was hard to spend money when you were
00:24:33
applying yeah but you you were my
00:24:35
recollection of that time is you were
00:24:36
never you were never flashy so you had
00:24:38
this house in Haku um but you had from
00:24:39
memory like a sofa big TV like very love
00:24:44
the TV it's like a 50-in TV but not like
00:24:46
a frame one that hangs on a wall now
00:24:48
like one that was probably 500 kilos
00:24:50
like a yeah I remember those ones and
00:24:52
maybe a maybe a PlayStation one or crash
00:24:54
Panda Co crash Panda Co yeah yeah yeah
00:24:57
and um
00:24:58
in terms of yeah you were never wasteful
00:25:00
with your money as well which I'm
00:25:01
guessing came from your upbringing or on
00:25:04
I don't yeah I I can think of a couple
00:25:06
of stories can you well there was one
00:25:09
time this must have been like maybe year
00:25:10
one or year two in the a where you had
00:25:12
um your girlfriend that you met in South
00:25:13
Africa and this is when maybe cell
00:25:16
phones first came out I remember one
00:25:18
time like you drove from py to
00:25:20
Wellington and you were talking on the
00:25:22
phone to her the whole way and this is
00:25:24
when phone calls were probably like
00:25:25
eight bucks a minute or something is
00:25:27
that right good memory Don we can cut
00:25:30
this that
00:25:32
out yeah well yeah I know yeah so when
00:25:35
when people approach you now like what
00:25:36
what do they like what do they say what
00:25:38
do they talk about do they talk about
00:25:39
the John Mitchell thing do they talk
00:25:41
about the impact um you know your head
00:25:44
on their life and how you you're the
00:25:46
favorite all black of all time yeah bit
00:25:47
bit of bit of everything really I mean
00:25:50
I'm over the John Mitchell stuff really
00:25:53
that's taken a while but I mean cut that
00:25:56
yeah oh look I mean it was a long time
00:25:58
yeah yeah yeah but I mean people are
00:26:00
really people are really good I mean
00:26:01
it's um and I guess the good thing
00:26:05
about like all the Social Media stuff is
00:26:08
that the YouTube and that parents that
00:26:10
used to like you show their kids and
00:26:12
they go watch this guy play and then
00:26:13
kids you get kids that and you go like
00:26:15
man they would they wouldn't know they
00:26:18
they wouldn't know like I I don't mind
00:26:19
people go oh you know he doesn't nice
00:26:22
what man I played 25 years ago like it
00:26:24
doesn't actually worry me like but you
00:26:26
know they go oh we showed them the
00:26:27
YouTube stuff
00:26:28
so I think that's that's pretty cool so
00:26:31
most people are pretty good so you take
00:26:32
I take time out and talk to most I talk
00:26:35
to pretty much everyone that wants to
00:26:37
have a chat and um and be reasonably
00:26:40
friendly it's yeah most people are good
00:26:44
you've got yeah yeah yeah does the
00:26:46
conversation of the tone change if it's
00:26:47
evening and people are drinking yeah
00:26:49
yeah yeah which yeah yeah which is it
00:26:53
still it would still mostly be positive
00:26:54
I guess but people just don't know
00:26:56
boundaries at that point yeah yeah yeah
00:26:57
that's right you with your mates or you
00:26:59
not that I go out a lot to be honest
00:27:01
like I'm not a big um I'm not a big uh
00:27:05
big drinker I
00:27:06
mean yeah it's it's funny
00:27:10
like probably like a lot of new
00:27:11
zealanders like we I'm I'm a bit of a
00:27:14
Binger and probably everything whether
00:27:16
that's watching Netflix shows or or
00:27:18
having beers like I just when you when
00:27:21
you go you go and when you when I don't
00:27:23
I don't like I like I could go months
00:27:26
and months without drinking I don't I
00:27:28
don't necessarily like the tast I don't
00:27:29
like the taste of alcohol I only drink
00:27:31
to sort of be sociable if your mates are
00:27:32
having a few beers in okay I'll have
00:27:34
some but I'd rather have a a coffee or a
00:27:37
or a Diet Coke yep don't I don't drink
00:27:40
at home um yeah but obviously you get
00:27:44
you get a little bit braver when you
00:27:45
drink so I can understand people coming
00:27:48
up and when you're doing something and
00:27:50
they they come up and say stuff it's
00:27:52
like M yeah but they just don't um yeah
00:27:54
they don't they sort of lose that um
00:27:56
ability to sense know when when they're
00:27:59
taking up tooo much of your time yeah
00:28:00
yeah yeah like like 5 minutes is quite a
00:28:02
good time in it like anything long than
00:28:05
that like but I've got some pretty good
00:28:07
mates that will sort of give it the old
00:28:08
mate you've been here long
00:28:10
enough move on yeah that's cool so let's
00:28:13
talk about the early years so like were
00:28:15
you always good like your dad was one of
00:28:18
your first coaches e he was a he was a
00:28:20
hard coach uh yeah well it's just old
00:28:23
school right like um was I always good
00:28:26
like like like people at um like primary
00:28:28
school age intermediate age maybe the
00:28:30
early years of um high school you know
00:28:32
were you sort of ear Mark to be like an
00:28:34
all black uh don't think so like my
00:28:37
brother was pretty good um so he was a
00:28:40
couple years older than
00:28:42
me uh so yeah I guess back then
00:28:46
like yeah like I used to have to play
00:28:48
cuz we work with like you know the car
00:28:50
and on the S days um so I just play on
00:28:54
the older team play on my brother's team
00:28:56
so I always got put on the front row to
00:28:57
St of trouble and he was in the backs
00:29:00
and he was always the one scoring the
00:29:01
tries
00:29:02
and um you know I'd run out the middle
00:29:04
of the field and he'd you know give me
00:29:06
little little lollipops to score and um
00:29:09
so so he was the better yeah he was a
00:29:12
way better player like naturally
00:29:14
naturally tall tall fast you know
00:29:17
aggressive all that sort of stuff um
00:29:20
where I just sort of I was probably had
00:29:23
ability but followed just cuz I was I
00:29:26
was always smaller I was always cuz I
00:29:28
was playing two years above my grade
00:29:31
right so but you could do that back then
00:29:33
you could tackle at 5 years old and that
00:29:34
sort of stuff you can't do that now but
00:29:36
yeah so and then I guess over time
00:29:40
where um I don't know what it was mate
00:29:43
to be honest like I I'd go down the park
00:29:45
by myself with my one leather ball and
00:29:47
and kick around and and train and do
00:29:49
that stuff where I guess
00:29:52
Shane he wanted a career or he he was
00:29:56
doing other stuff like he but I've no
00:29:59
doubt we had a with had a couple guys
00:30:01
living in P my brother and another guy
00:30:03
darl Cherry who he passed away when he
00:30:06
was 15 through um he had he had a heart
00:30:08
attack had a few heart issues but like
00:30:11
he was a he was a really good player so
00:30:12
we had a couple players floting around
00:30:13
parck that um could have done some
00:30:16
pretty good things but um yeah I just I
00:30:20
just worked really hard and then had a
00:30:21
bit of a natural ability
00:30:23
and yeah I mean it's it's hard on talk
00:30:26
to people that used to know me when I
00:30:28
young I just don't know yeah but it
00:30:29
seems like um like the odds were stacked
00:30:31
against you like um your cap college is
00:30:33
not a it's not a school with a fine
00:30:35
rugby history or anything and you
00:30:37
wouldn't be on the right I don't know if
00:30:39
there were even sort of like Talent
00:30:40
spotters or anything back then there
00:30:41
probably wasn't no but there were like
00:30:44
how did how did how did you get from
00:30:45
there to be on anyone's radar like how
00:30:47
do you stand out on an average team yeah
00:30:49
I mean that's probably a good lesson I
00:30:50
tell that to a lot of you know if we're
00:30:52
talking to the kids and uh these days
00:30:55
like I always say there this there's
00:30:56
always someone watching right so whether
00:30:58
you're winning by 100 or losing by 100
00:31:00
you know there could be someone standing
00:31:02
on the on the sidelines that knows
00:31:04
somebody that knows somebody that
00:31:06
coaches a rep team or whatever and if if
00:31:09
you're a dick or you got a really bad
00:31:11
attitude or whatever then that will get
00:31:14
back to whoever it needs to get back to
00:31:16
right so um yeah C College mate we're a
00:31:18
first 15 I play first 15 we're playing
00:31:20
second 15 teams in town getting smashed
00:31:23
um and then you know you play for half
00:31:26
an hour under 16s 18s whatever you know
00:31:28
you get
00:31:30
beaten quite a 90% of the time and then
00:31:33
one year for whatever reason I got
00:31:36
picked up into New Zealand
00:31:38
schools and so you get into that team
00:31:41
and there's some pretty good players
00:31:43
floating around and I'd always been
00:31:45
probably one of the better players at
00:31:46
cap and then you get into that
00:31:48
team uh you know Peter altini George
00:31:51
George Ley there's some pretty good
00:31:52
players floating around James Kerr all
00:31:54
these guys have played Super Rugby and I
00:31:57
I sat on the Ben for the first year of
00:31:58
that New Zealand secondary
00:32:00
schools and like I was always a big fish
00:32:04
in the small pond in cap you know you're
00:32:06
like you played all right but man yeah
00:32:08
and then when you get into the big wild
00:32:09
world of New Zealand like I like f man
00:32:11
look at all these players like these
00:32:12
guys are awesome uh so you i' have sort
00:32:14
of realized quite early on so that would
00:32:16
have been I don't know 145 that like you
00:32:18
have to I don't know you just have to
00:32:20
work really hard um you know you can all
00:32:24
that have all that natural ability but
00:32:27
you know there is a bit of thing in
00:32:29
there where you got to work hard and and
00:32:31
then the next year I got in schools and
00:32:33
and played and started every game and um
00:32:37
yeah so I guess I got into the into that
00:32:39
age grade stuff early and then got
00:32:41
noticed but played for Haro when I was
00:32:44
18 the senior team and we got beaten in
00:32:47
every game we
00:32:48
got beaten by uh Jonah Jonah's first
00:32:54
first class game so there's TV cameras
00:32:56
there the new TV1 TV3 you know Jonah was
00:33:00
on One Wing Joel vendere was on the
00:33:02
other wing and we got beaten well we did
00:33:05
get 12 points but the problem was y yeah
00:33:07
they got
00:33:09
108 [ __ ] so wow yeah so it was just one
00:33:13
of those uh so yeah every and then we
00:33:15
lost every game after that but we had a
00:33:16
amazing year even though we lost
00:33:18
everything like we played you we played
00:33:20
counties we played transv which was man
00:33:23
running out as an 18y old against you
00:33:27
know some of these guys that have played
00:33:28
for SFA like like giant men yeah yeah
00:33:30
they were big that yeah it was Unreal
00:33:32
and then you know we played Fiji not
00:33:34
long after that so for a little second
00:33:36
division side out of half for we' had
00:33:38
these three massive games and then went
00:33:39
on to lose every other game and got
00:33:41
demoted back down to third division but
00:33:43
um yeah someone must have say something
00:33:45
and then I got someone rang me up and
00:33:47
said do you want to come to a man or two
00:33:49
play for Kar and then yeah so I had one
00:33:52
year half then yeah and then up there
00:33:54
and but I think once you're in the
00:33:55
system if you keep on improving and
00:33:57
people and the good attitude and all
00:33:58
that sort of stuff I guess you'll keep
00:34:01
on going far and then sevens was
00:34:02
probably the one where it kicked off
00:34:04
from and that was out of man or two yeah
00:34:07
that's it's really good to re it's
00:34:08
really good to hear this stuff because
00:34:09
um like the word that was sort of thrown
00:34:11
around quite a lot when you were um
00:34:13
playing was like the word freak people
00:34:15
would call you a freak but it's um you
00:34:17
weren't a freak you just worked [ __ ]
00:34:18
hard yeah yeah I mean we uh I mean I I
00:34:22
did weights you know Dad had you know
00:34:24
weights and then I don't know how good
00:34:26
it is for you start at 12 right as a
00:34:28
young fell but you used to go out to the
00:34:30
garage and you train out the garage and
00:34:32
like we we were riding our bikes around
00:34:34
pck and it was it was just that that age
00:34:37
where you and that that time where you
00:34:39
could you know you had to be home before
00:34:40
the lights came on the street lights
00:34:42
came on so you could go down the park
00:34:44
and kick around and do stuff and we're
00:34:45
working on the back of a milk truck
00:34:47
carrying big crates you know with the
00:34:49
old you know milk bottles foils yeah
00:34:51
yeah like so we were doing that when I
00:34:53
was 12 13 like jumping off the back of a
00:34:55
truck with a big crate so I mean I guess
00:34:59
we were quite strong and we had other
00:35:02
stuff like that that was fitness-wise
00:35:04
yeah I can always remember yeah I said
00:35:07
there's no way my 12 or 13 year old will
00:35:10
be jumping off the back of a milk truck
00:35:11
like it was just you you know safety
00:35:14
issues you need a seat belt on the back
00:35:15
of a truck like I was some of the stuff
00:35:17
that used to happen like I was like
00:35:18
there's no way that stuff could happen
00:35:20
now but yeah I mean we had a pretty good
00:35:22
pretty good upbringing and
00:35:25
um yeah oh my
00:35:28
what was the question off oh no no
00:35:30
people called you a but it was actually
00:35:32
just hard work that went into it and I
00:35:33
suppose um B of both B of both yeah yeah
00:35:35
yeah and also just yeah on the back of
00:35:37
your house I remember there was like a
00:35:39
big sort of like Landing or field there
00:35:41
where you and your older brother Shane
00:35:43
used to play so getting um pounded
00:35:45
obviously like day after day by your
00:35:47
brother that's 2 years older than you
00:35:49
probably helped um yeah kous you up a
00:35:52
bit yeah oh well I suppose going down
00:35:53
the back with the older brother who's is
00:35:55
a lot bigger and playing one-on one's
00:35:57
probably not ideal cuz there's a few
00:35:59
tears and going up complaining to Mom
00:36:02
and but you know you just they shrug the
00:36:04
shoulders and you just yeah pick pick
00:36:06
your lip up get the old uh the old water
00:36:09
the old magic water on it yeah this I
00:36:12
mean I mate you can probably tell people
00:36:14
I was probably quite soft when I was
00:36:15
young but you know a lot of Tears
00:36:18
playing in the with the older kids but I
00:36:21
guess it's toughen me up in some sort of
00:36:23
way I don't know 100% character building
00:36:25
yeah so um It was 95 that you made the
00:36:28
sevens squad for the first time eh yeah
00:36:31
yeah and then but when was when was the
00:36:32
big year was that ' 96 96 was the next
00:36:34
year yeah is that where you scored like
00:36:35
six tries in one game um seven seven
00:36:39
sorry my
00:36:40
bad yeah well that that was just I guess
00:36:43
one of those learnings for me was like
00:36:44
95 I went to the got picked up in the
00:36:47
sevens with touch and I'd already been
00:36:49
to a tournament with titens and and I
00:36:51
saw I sort of knew what he was about and
00:36:53
the 95 men or2 play I think that's when
00:36:55
they had the Nationals at men or two
00:36:57
which was pretty
00:36:58
made the team but you sort of go into
00:37:00
that team and it's like far out you know
00:37:01
like Jonah is there and Eric Rush is
00:37:03
there and dallis Seymour and like there
00:37:05
some pretty big names and back then
00:37:08
there was only the I think we only had
00:37:09
three
00:37:10
tournaments you know Japan was one Fiji
00:37:13
was one and Hong Kong was the massive
00:37:15
one that was Hong Kong was I me my
00:37:17
parents used to always go over there and
00:37:18
watch the Hong Kong s so I went there in
00:37:20
'95 and um Adrian kmore was the guy that
00:37:25
was playing the position that that I was
00:37:27
playing so I played the first
00:37:29
game um in Hong Kong scored a try and
00:37:32
then I sat and watched the whole
00:37:35
tournament on the sideline because cashi
00:37:37
was the number one guy there
00:37:39
and um and joanah had his massive
00:37:42
tournament he you know player of the
00:37:44
tournament and then I just when I got
00:37:45
home it was like one of
00:37:47
those feelings where like you'd won a
00:37:50
that' won a the one Hong Kong Sev you
00:37:53
get your medal or whatever you get and
00:37:55
you know you're part of the team but I
00:37:57
just didn't really feel part of the part
00:37:59
of it you just feel like spectator you
00:38:02
just wanted more like you know you're in
00:38:03
the group and you're having a but you
00:38:05
haven't you only played one game and I
00:38:06
said but there's got to be more to this
00:38:08
than that so I just I just went home to
00:38:10
py and then I was in py by myself
00:38:13
obviously chars with men or two and so I
00:38:16
got a trainer um a lady called Carolyn
00:38:19
margan I don't know if you you probably
00:38:21
know from P she used to do massage and
00:38:22
training so you I just train really hard
00:38:26
for the next whatever it was was six
00:38:27
seven months until the next uh seven
00:38:30
thing came up and then you need a bit of
00:38:32
luck in rugby a so um I got I got resis
00:38:35
me fit and and then cashy got injured
00:38:38
and then I went to Hong Kong in 96 and
00:38:41
um play you played uh played every game
00:38:44
yeah got player of the tournament and I
00:38:45
think 18 tries and that's just still a
00:38:48
record now which is quite cool and no
00:38:50
one will ever beat it because of that
00:38:52
stadium is no
00:38:53
longer that's amazing like th those
00:38:56
games are so short how do you
00:38:58
well was it four four I'll be honest
00:39:00
with you I always thought that cuz we
00:39:02
was against Sri
00:39:03
Lanka so I'm pretty sure I always tell
00:39:06
the story I'm pretty sure they're at the
00:39:08
airport in Sri Lanka wherever that
00:39:09
airport is and there's a cricket team a
00:39:11
rugby team I'm pretty sure they sent the
00:39:12
cricket team to Hong Kong so those
00:39:15
little Sri Lankans that was have never
00:39:17
played rugby before seven tries take it
00:39:19
though um and Mark Alis holds the twice
00:39:22
scoring record in the 15s and that was
00:39:24
against like Japan or something wasn't
00:39:25
it 135 to nil so man if you can't get
00:39:29
seven or eight tries of that something
00:39:31
going on um and is was it that Hong Kong
00:39:33
tournament that you got the nickname the
00:39:35
padik express or uh no I think it was
00:39:39
through was that hurricane days like um
00:39:42
Keith Quinn out of Wellington like yeah
00:39:46
yeah I think that's where that first
00:39:48
came up so it's quite a tongue twisted
00:39:50
to try to say that really quickly it's
00:39:51
lot of syllables it
00:39:54
is Kelly stick with Kelly um better than
00:39:58
some of the nicknames that Eric Rush
00:39:59
gave you that's true yeah yeah what um
00:40:02
yeah ah there's one story in your book
00:40:04
that you tell about him like he's um so
00:40:06
you you young at the time like 18 19 and
00:40:09
and and you're very painfully shy and he
00:40:13
he introduces you at some saying um
00:40:15
saying something like um Christian
00:40:16
doesn't need need to use condoms he just
00:40:18
uses his
00:40:20
personality that's a good one
00:40:23
yeah well the thing about Russia I guess
00:40:26
when you get into a team and if people
00:40:27
start taking the piss out of you then I
00:40:28
guess it makes you you're either go to
00:40:30
your shell or you it brings you out and
00:40:32
I think Russia was quite good where he
00:40:35
could take the puss out of you but you
00:40:37
know in quite a good way so yeah I mean
00:40:39
Hong Kong was one of those things during
00:40:41
the week you got the early on in the
00:40:42
week and then you had a lot of functions
00:40:44
where you get up dress up in your number
00:40:45
ones you go there' be a lot of um a lot
00:40:47
of kiwis at these functions all all
00:40:49
suited up and and but at the end of it
00:40:52
we' have to get up the front and rush
00:40:53
you would obviously do a little talk and
00:40:55
then introduce everybody and I don't
00:40:57
know that that week in 90
00:41:01
'95 we had about three or four functions
00:41:03
and I I three or four different
00:41:06
nicknames so he' he'd always get to me
00:41:08
he goes oh this is Tran K he's 18 he's
00:41:10
from here he's this and that and uh you
00:41:12
know the first one was um he called me
00:41:15
Chester and I kind of looked at him go
00:41:17
he's never called me Chester before and
00:41:19
he goes oh cuz um at the time Chester
00:41:21
Williams was in the um in the spring box
00:41:23
and he he was the only black fellow in
00:41:25
the spring box at the time and I was I
00:41:27
was pretty much the only white fell in
00:41:30
the uh in the seven Sid so he called me
00:41:31
Chester and I was like oh m whatever and
00:41:34
then the next the next day we're at
00:41:35
another function and he gets to man
00:41:37
what's he going to call me now and then
00:41:38
he goes oh oh this is Christian KH where
00:41:41
18 um we call him beer bottle cuz he's
00:41:44
empty from the neck up like was that
00:41:47
embarrassing at the time yeah I mean
00:41:49
what do you do like I'm just you just go
00:41:50
for so shy back then as well yeah yeah
00:41:53
but that's that's rushy though that's um
00:41:56
yeah I had a few through the year years
00:41:57
you know there's crowbar and the All
00:41:58
Blacks cuz I never passed it I think
00:42:00
that was more a Goldie
00:42:01
thing they needed a crowbar to get the
00:42:04
ball out yeah yeah I got called MZ and
00:42:07
that used to you know call me
00:42:10
cball what cball C Cab ball cut a ball
00:42:14
yeah cuz when I used to run a cut be cut
00:42:17
ball cut ball so I had I had a few but I
00:42:20
think the one that stick was just cly
00:42:21
mate just plain and simple yeah yeah
00:42:23
yeah yeah yeah [ __ ] they are they are
00:42:26
great Yarns um like the year at rush
00:42:28
thing I I feel like um yeah be be a high
00:42:31
risk to do that to someone now because
00:42:32
it could be taken the wrong way they
00:42:34
could accuse you of bullying um there's
00:42:37
no doubt there was bullying so can we go
00:42:39
back and do something about that yeah so
00:42:42
okay so there is there was the 96 Hong
00:42:44
Kong sevens then I remember was that the
00:42:46
first year of Super Rugby as well uh 96
00:42:50
yeah I remember so you played the first
00:42:51
game I was there watching this was
00:42:53
umland versus Men 2 at the um at the
00:42:57
sorry Oakland versus Hurricanes at the
00:42:58
show grounds and there was the men of
00:43:00
were two team and there was um like it
00:43:02
was I don't know there was some great
00:43:04
players in there like you but there was
00:43:05
a lot of rag tag players right like um
00:43:07
just some local players that have done
00:43:09
pretty well like car Williams and Bruce
00:43:11
Hansen and there and you guys were
00:43:12
playing Orland which was basically the
00:43:13
All Blacks yeah I think we're um in
00:43:15
those early years especially we were a
00:43:17
sort of a team that was sort of brought
00:43:18
in I mean the hurricane region is
00:43:20
massive right it goes all the way up to
00:43:21
gbon so yeah we're a sort of team that
00:43:23
was picked and pulled and from from all
00:43:26
parts and then we we got players that
00:43:28
couldn't make other teams bought down to
00:43:29
us so so we're a bit that of that team
00:43:33
but yeah I still remember that running
00:43:36
out that first Super Rugby game and then
00:43:39
you're looking across and you go you
00:43:41
know there's Craig Dal sure it's Patrick
00:43:43
ol Brown um Robin Brooke I can't
00:43:47
remember who the other L was Michael
00:43:48
Jones zenan Brooke a who Carlos I think
00:43:52
stenen Ronnie Clark Jonah like it was
00:43:55
like far out man
00:43:57
this is amazing it's um sted yeah yeah
00:44:01
yeah and and and I always I seriously
00:44:04
always say this and my daughter showed
00:44:06
me a picture the other day and I've said
00:44:08
this before she showed me a picture of
00:44:10
Bowden Barrett when he first start the
00:44:12
All Blacks with um a kid that's in the
00:44:15
hour Ruben love so Ruben was like a
00:44:17
little 10-year-old in Bow and was
00:44:18
starting out and then I've seen a
00:44:20
picture of Rich mcco and Dam McKenzie
00:44:23
when he was young so I I always take
00:44:25
that back to when I
00:44:27
Michael Jones I watched Michael Jones in
00:44:30
87 World Cup in New Zealand and I was
00:44:33
like a young fell and then now I was on
00:44:36
the same park and I'm playing against
00:44:38
like Michael Jones like I was like f man
00:44:41
how cool is this and I always remember
00:44:42
after weed to have the after back
00:44:43
functions and we getting our number ones
00:44:45
going and I remember Carlos coming up
00:44:47
because he was a high from old boy and I
00:44:49
was like bro can you take me across to
00:44:50
meet Michael Jones we couldn't get
00:44:52
photos with them back then cuz we had
00:44:54
the old Nokia phones and but it was just
00:44:56
just to go meet him shake his hand like
00:44:59
man how how cool and then obviously when
00:45:01
Super Rugby fished and we gone into the
00:45:02
All Blacks and then and then you're
00:45:05
sitting in the same room as uh some of
00:45:07
these guys that we watched when I was
00:45:09
like 10 years old like it's pretty cool
00:45:11
you don't yeah it's
00:45:14
pretty pretty amazing i' that's the cool
00:45:16
thing now I've seen obviously we
00:45:18
couldn't get photos back then but I've
00:45:20
seen photos now that stuff that's
00:45:22
happened it's um yeah 10-year-old kid
00:45:25
and then you get to play with a guy and
00:45:27
your hero that you used to used to watch
00:45:29
like it's pretty amazing well and in
00:45:31
this chair that you're sitting in today
00:45:32
I had K Mamu there like 3 4 days ago he
00:45:34
played what like 123 tests I think it
00:45:37
was and he he told the basically the
00:45:40
exact same story but about his first um
00:45:43
first year on the old blacks and he he
00:45:44
Nam dropped you Jonah T like a whole
00:45:48
bunch of guys from that era um so yeah
00:45:51
it's a cycle that's going to continue
00:45:52
happening it's cool yeah and I guess
00:45:54
when you get in the photo you don't know
00:45:55
what it like you don't know what it
00:45:57
means like I'm you know I might got
00:46:00
photos with young kids and I'm sure when
00:46:02
B got the photo of R and love like he
00:46:04
wouldn't have nine it's just another
00:46:05
photo with another kid but to that kid
00:46:07
like that's everything like man I want
00:46:09
to be there one day that's so cool so
00:46:12
it's um it means a lot and I think
00:46:14
today's player
00:46:16
like like my kids are really into the
00:46:18
rugby now it's my daughter and the boy
00:46:20
and all that sort of stuff and the one
00:46:22
thing that the boys do today and
00:46:24
especially with the hurricanes and I've
00:46:26
sort of been really standoffish like
00:46:28
over the last since I've retired and cuz
00:46:30
you know we've done our time and you
00:46:32
know I just sort of but my kids have got
00:46:35
into it so you've been invited to the
00:46:36
Hurricanes um environment a few times
00:46:38
into the training thing and into the
00:46:40
change rooms after the games and and
00:46:43
they're just really accommodating now
00:46:46
like bring bring the kids in you know
00:46:48
get them around and every boy every
00:46:50
player will come up and Shake Your Hand
00:46:51
the management will good to have you on
00:46:53
near col the kids get the kids kids get
00:46:55
photos and but that's I've recking
00:46:58
that's awesome because the kids that
00:47:00
makes them feel really good
00:47:02
and yeah and I just we just I don't know
00:47:05
when we were coming through I enough we
00:47:06
had that like oh but do you think they
00:47:08
like that with everyone or is it because
00:47:10
you're you're a you're a hurricanes
00:47:11
Legion yeah I don't know I just think
00:47:13
the the player these players and it's
00:47:16
cuz they know like let's be honest like
00:47:19
there's a bit of a battle now with rugby
00:47:20
and and competition and so I think it's
00:47:23
just one of those things where the
00:47:24
better at PR they they need to be
00:47:26
because they need those young kids
00:47:28
coming to the games they need they need
00:47:30
fans they need
00:47:32
people loving rugby again cuz it's in a
00:47:35
it's a bit of a it's a bit of a funny
00:47:37
spot at the moment but yeah I mean hey
00:47:39
but for me it's um I've never I've never
00:47:42
really missed it apart from that that
00:47:44
buzz but over that s the last last month
00:47:47
or so with the hurricanes and and going
00:47:49
in there a few times with the kids you
00:47:51
go like this was it's really cool like
00:47:54
it's I kind of felt like really you know
00:47:57
really proud that you used to be part of
00:47:59
part of that group and then how they're
00:48:01
treating the sort of old boys now coming
00:48:03
in like it's and then looking after our
00:48:05
kids like yeah it's uh yeah it was
00:48:07
pretty cool yeah I I get the feeling
00:48:09
from the way you're talking that the
00:48:11
older you get the more um you appreciate
00:48:14
what what you did yeah yeah yeah I mean
00:48:16
absolutely I mean you know that tour of
00:48:18
90 I always say the tour of 96 when we
00:48:20
won the first series in s Africa like
00:48:24
man I was 20 a young fell going I was
00:48:27
like [ __ ] this is just awesome going to
00:48:28
tour sou Africa only been there super
00:48:30
ugly but we're going there for six weeks
00:48:32
now and playing four tests and you know
00:48:34
we could play a test have a few beers
00:48:36
and what whatever like it's going to be
00:48:38
cool like so and then we win the series
00:48:41
and like everyone's like man so good
00:48:43
hasn't happened since ever and what and
00:48:45
I was like oh yeah man it's it's I'm
00:48:48
just happy to be here yeah I was just
00:48:50
really tired at one point I remember the
00:48:52
tour I was just I'm just really T I was
00:48:54
just really tired um
00:48:57
but yeah that was how I felt and I
00:48:59
remember Fitzy saying and a few people
00:49:01
saying you know they came in off the
00:49:03
game we won the series and Don Clark cuz
00:49:05
he's living over at the time was there
00:49:06
and he's got a tear out his eye and a
00:49:08
lot of players have been there before us
00:49:09
that that hadn't managed to to win and
00:49:13
and I always say like to it means more
00:49:16
to me now than than it did back then
00:49:18
like I just didn't you know I just
00:49:20
didn't I don't know I thought that I
00:49:22
didn't appreciate it but I just didn't
00:49:23
really know I just didn't know that what
00:49:26
it meant what it meant or the history or
00:49:28
the cuz I was just young I just want to
00:49:29
just want to play rugby and you know and
00:49:32
obviously back then not that I liked
00:49:34
alcohol but you know you go out and have
00:49:35
a few beers afterwards and that like
00:49:37
that was just the way it was well I even
00:49:39
um I found this this book that I've had
00:49:41
had all these years so this was like
00:49:43
just a photo book that was um put out at
00:49:44
the time so that's how significant oh
00:49:46
that's that's how significant the year
00:49:48
was the historic 1996 old black season
00:49:50
you mentioned don don Clark before so he
00:49:52
was he was a fullback as well right yeah
00:49:54
when in the like the 1950s yeah I
00:49:57
couldn't tell you that but yeah yeah
00:49:59
real old school so did you yeah he's
00:50:01
like you and him are whenever a
00:50:03
conversation comes up about the greatest
00:50:04
fullback ever it's usually usually you
00:50:06
two that get yeah I mean you know all
00:50:08
that talk Dom like I reckon it's really
00:50:11
you just take it for what it is right
00:50:12
like it's really hard to compare eras
00:50:14
and people go who's the best fullback
00:50:16
whatever whatever like I just go
00:50:18
whatever whoever whatever you think it
00:50:19
is that's that's cool like I won't get
00:50:21
offended because I know like Don Clark
00:50:24
if he was in today's ERA with everything
00:50:27
they have today how good would he be if
00:50:29
you put these guys today into Don
00:50:31
Clark's era how good would they like you
00:50:34
can't you can't compare you can't
00:50:36
compare from the 90s even to the to the
00:50:39
now or to the two because everything
00:50:40
changes like the just everything
00:50:42
everything changes like the science
00:50:44
behind training the food the recovery
00:50:46
the don't drink alcohol after games it's
00:50:49
not good for you don't eat CN flakes at
00:50:51
dinner yeah yeah just just everything so
00:50:53
I just go M yeah whatever man whatever
00:50:54
you think I'm I'm not offended if you
00:50:56
think bad bloody Ben Smith or Izzy dag
00:50:59
or whatever like that's cool that's
00:51:01
that's cool that you guys like I don't
00:51:02
it's it's all good but that's cuz you're
00:51:04
so I mean you're so comfortable in your
00:51:06
own skin so that's a conversation for
00:51:08
people that are on the armchairs
00:51:09
basically isn't it yeah yeah I mean I
00:51:12
still now I go man there's only there's
00:51:14
probably a few players that could have
00:51:15
done like both eras like you know they
00:51:18
could have been Farm guys working on the
00:51:19
farm Monday to Friday and then go play a
00:51:21
test on on satday you know I think
00:51:23
Richie mcco probably could have done
00:51:24
that do you know what I mean or you know
00:51:27
white Lo col Ms yeah cols Kurt Patrick
00:51:30
you know but yeah I just yeah you
00:51:34
imagine some players working on the farm
00:51:36
all week and they going to play a test
00:51:37
match like that just and I know things
00:51:40
are different but yeah just just off top
00:51:42
my head like those guys I go yeah man
00:51:44
they could have done both they could
00:51:45
have done both erors yeah um yeah so so
00:51:48
96 um you make the old how how so there
00:51:52
was trial like the possibles and
00:51:54
probables yeah it's probably the last I
00:51:57
we might have had another one the year
00:51:58
year after that but I'm yeah there
00:52:00
weren't many yeah that was one of the
00:52:02
one last one so yeah possible was
00:52:04
probable so so were you like a long shot
00:52:08
uh yeah I guess so cuz that but but I
00:52:11
was it's quite cool when you get when
00:52:13
you get put into the posses and not the
00:52:16
probables I don't know what's better
00:52:18
being like Underdog status it's possible
00:52:19
or probables better I don't know but
00:52:21
anyway I was in the team that was pretty
00:52:22
much the World Cup team from the year
00:52:24
before without cuz Glenn Osborne was a
00:52:25
fullback so he played in the World Cup
00:52:28
um yeah so I mean I mean I guess had a
00:52:31
reasonbly good trial against um yeah
00:52:33
against the
00:52:34
other the probables and then that was
00:52:37
the week before the uh smon test and
00:52:40
then yeah and then just Hardy came up to
00:52:42
me after and said oh we're going to name
00:52:44
the ORS tomorrow and you know you're
00:52:45
you're in
00:52:46
it uh yeah don't make sure you don't
00:52:50
tell anyone until it comes out I said
00:52:53
sweet so I rang mom and dad and a few
00:52:55
other people on the motel landline yeah
00:52:58
yeah yeah but I mean I was I was really
00:53:00
lucky because you know you get put on a
00:53:02
team that was pretty much the World Cup
00:53:04
team the year before they possibly
00:53:06
should have won the World Cup bar Suzie
00:53:09
and food poison and a few other things
00:53:11
but um yeah so there was me and Scott
00:53:13
mlau that were um the two the two new
00:53:17
guys in that team so it was pretty cool
00:53:18
mean to you be running you know you know
00:53:21
Jonah and Jeff and Merz and you know
00:53:24
pretty good four pack so yeah it was a
00:53:26
pretty good first year yeah what what
00:53:28
are your Recollections of that time in
00:53:30
that first game I've had I've had so
00:53:32
many so manys on the podcast and they
00:53:34
talk about it and everyone's got a
00:53:35
different experience most people are
00:53:37
like nervous or they feel like an
00:53:38
imposter I feel like you wouldn't have
00:53:40
um I don't know you felt you you you've
00:53:43
always sort of felt like you belong eh
00:53:44
oh not really no no not really I mean I
00:53:48
think it's quite intimidating going and
00:53:51
like and I know you probably talked to
00:53:53
to like to Kev a few current players
00:53:57
like it'd be probably easier to walk
00:53:58
into that envir even though you'd be
00:54:00
nervous it's probably easier to walk in
00:54:01
that into that environment now than it
00:54:03
was when we sort of came in like it was
00:54:06
very much still um a
00:54:09
hierarchy these guys and you were and
00:54:11
were right right at the bottom of the of
00:54:13
the chain so it was quite intimidating
00:54:16
walk into that room the first day the
00:54:18
first meeting and I was we were
00:54:21
reasonably lucky because we you know we
00:54:23
had a few of the sevens boys there Jonah
00:54:25
and Russ was there I'd feel the
00:54:26
Wellington boys Al llama was there I
00:54:28
think bll Allen was there norie you
00:54:31
normie hu so we had a few boys that kind
00:54:33
of look after you but it's still M you'd
00:54:36
go to breakfast in the morning and you'd
00:54:37
walk in and there'd be a table and it be
00:54:39
you know you know Fitzy Craig D and
00:54:41
Jones you like I don't really want to
00:54:43
sit over there you know [ __ ] where's
00:54:45
mying where's my Wellington guys like so
00:54:47
it was a bit was quite intimidating so
00:54:50
like going into the food court in prison
00:54:51
or something yeah yeah yeah yeah don't
00:54:53
be spoken until you're spoken to yeah
00:54:56
wow it did it actually felt a bit a
00:54:58
little bit like that so you know and
00:55:00
that just doesn't bring the best out of
00:55:02
players right but I mean and then then
00:55:04
that week I I tweaked my calf on I think
00:55:08
it was like on a Tuesday or Wednesday
00:55:09
training I tweaked it so I don't know if
00:55:11
I'd be playing that week so it was a bit
00:55:13
of a um bit of
00:55:15
stress uh for two or three days and I
00:55:18
was just icing and Physio and um TW you
00:55:21
know every 3 or 4 hours icing and I had
00:55:23
a fitness test on the on the satday
00:55:27
morning down down the park went for a
00:55:29
run with Doc mahu and the trainer and
00:55:33
like the Cal was F was real sore so I
00:55:36
ran up and down and just did a few
00:55:37
Sprints and it was real sore and they
00:55:39
they just said oh how's it feeling I
00:55:40
said oh yeah it feels real good and then
00:55:43
just went back and I thought F man this
00:55:45
is yeah I don't know don't know if it's
00:55:47
going to get through and then iced it
00:55:48
right through the whole day because it
00:55:49
was a night game and then yeah so I was
00:55:52
really I was really really nervous I
00:55:54
don't know if that was because of the
00:55:57
because it was my first test match or
00:55:58
because like I don't know if I was 100%
00:56:00
with my calf and then or was it because
00:56:04
of the hacker because I was never a big
00:56:06
hacker guy I don't
00:56:08
know um so so the rugby what you know
00:56:13
why you been selected but you're not
00:56:14
selected for the hucker yeah yeah yeah
00:56:16
Rugby's easy but I remember just sitting
00:56:18
in the change room for that the test and
00:56:20
just looking around a you like f Patrick
00:56:22
and Michael just all these people you go
00:56:25
it's pretty cool and then ran out and
00:56:27
got got through the Huer and and then
00:56:30
bang like the calf just went away like
00:56:33
so and then got got through the game so
00:56:35
and then yeah then the rest is history
00:56:37
that year so yeah I was I was reasonably
00:56:40
unsure uneasy sort of two or three days
00:56:42
before and then you start you start
00:56:45
working your way up the not that you're
00:56:46
right there but you start working your
00:56:47
way way up the chain where you know
00:56:50
played the first test okay on a I'm an
00:56:52
all black now I've got the
00:56:54
Jersey now come Come on talk to me guys
00:56:58
yeah so how yeah how long does that take
00:57:00
cuz I'm like I'm thinking someone like
00:57:02
say um Michael Jones or Frank buns was
00:57:05
he there at the
00:57:06
time that's the difference though is
00:57:09
that Michael Jones nice nicest guy in
00:57:10
the world so but the thing a lot of
00:57:13
these Orland guys have come through the
00:57:14
era where that was just the way it was
00:57:16
but as I said to you like Glenn Osman
00:57:18
was still there the the North Harbor
00:57:20
boys so bun and waler little good
00:57:22
bastards um you know Michael nicest guy
00:57:24
in the world um are you in your book you
00:57:27
talk about Ian Jones yeah was he was he
00:57:29
Frosty you gave him a shout out oh and
00:57:32
Dy yeah dy I mean should I room with Dy
00:57:34
in the UK and I don't think he said boo
00:57:36
to me I used to go in there 8:30 at
00:57:38
night and TV would be off he'd be
00:57:40
blankets he sleeping I'd be lying
00:57:43
going what am I going to do what am I to
00:57:45
do I mean I had it with the I had it
00:57:47
with the sevens we went to FG and so
00:57:49
he's back in those days you you walk
00:57:51
into your room and there's no TV cuz
00:57:54
you're just room in two beds and I was
00:57:56
with old Dallas seamour and then he had
00:57:58
the old Walkman with the headphones so
00:57:59
he put that on and I'm I'm only I'm only
00:58:02
a young fell so I just looking at the
00:58:03
roof like I think yeah I got like two or
00:58:07
three words out in the whole week like
00:58:08
you know we're going to breakfast or
00:58:10
we're going to training going to dinner
00:58:12
so but it was just a bit like that hey
00:58:14
now I get on well with all these boys
00:58:17
you just have to prove yourself it's
00:58:18
just how it was at the time now now I'm
00:58:19
sure with guys like ad s and I'm sure
00:58:21
it's never been more inclusive than what
00:58:23
it is there absolutely and that brings
00:58:24
out the best in players right you get a
00:58:26
young fell coming in you want him to be
00:58:27
himself you don't want him to hide away
00:58:29
or going to a shell you want him to be
00:58:31
himself and yeah there is still a
00:58:32
hierarchy right you got to there is
00:58:34
still that but it's way more
00:58:37
open oh I can't imagine how intimidating
00:58:39
that is oh but so the first game you
00:58:41
score three tries [ __ ] amazing and oh
00:58:43
you get tackled hard I remember watching
00:58:45
that on TV thinking bro is not going to
00:58:48
get up but you it's like you po just
00:58:50
bounced up again like Tyson Fury oh yeah
00:58:54
Bang Yeah um yeah I don't know yeah just
00:58:57
one like oh those tackles M AR the big
00:59:00
clean tackles and hits they they look
00:59:02
sore but they're probably they don't
00:59:03
hurt as much as some some of the other
00:59:05
ones yeah I got Cod hanged once and and
00:59:08
Brian lar got me a quite a good one from
00:59:10
a from a box kick but that's uh yeah
00:59:13
that's all part of it day that's uh
00:59:15
welcome to test match rugby and and
00:59:18
after that so after that first test like
00:59:20
in the the changing rooms does um like
00:59:22
fsy or any of those senior guys come up
00:59:24
and say hey nice work nice week
00:59:27
kit um not enough to prove yourself so
00:59:29
you had to get four the next week not
00:59:31
enough to prove yourself well I do yeah
00:59:32
I mean I do remember the after party the
00:59:34
after thing was that the senior like
00:59:36
this is how we were Pro but still very
00:59:39
much amateur you know the after party is
00:59:41
pretty much I think at my my girlfriend
00:59:44
at the time not not anymore but you know
00:59:47
it's like they go you go we've got him
00:59:49
tonight it's his first test so we'll got
00:59:51
to go and uh fill him up which is I like
00:59:55
a court session
00:59:56
well yeah they they send you Plaza look
00:59:58
after you go out and but that's how you
01:00:00
know and I go man I never I never really
01:00:02
drunk much before I made the All Blacks
01:00:04
and I in those first 10 test matches
01:00:05
like it was some quite big nights after
01:00:07
every test match the only good thing
01:00:09
like you're young and 20 so you could
01:00:10
bounce back the next day but I don't
01:00:14
know what what we know now to back then
01:00:17
you just you yeah we did all right for
01:00:20
what we did you was like professional in
01:00:22
terms of starting to get paid for what
01:00:24
you were doing but probably little else
01:00:26
yeah yeah and I know I know John hard I
01:00:28
mean he was quite hard he was pretty big
01:00:31
on trying to cuz he had come from the
01:00:33
corporate world and um and Coach joined
01:00:37
that amateur era as well but knew now
01:00:39
that was professional so that was that
01:00:41
was something that took a while to to
01:00:43
wean out but that was yeah I mean still
01:00:47
very much amateur thinking on on how
01:00:50
things were done especially
01:00:51
after after stuff yeah which is yeah I
01:00:56
mean how long could you last you see the
01:00:58
boys now like like it is man it is
01:01:01
structured after games and what you eat
01:01:03
and what you drink and your recovery
01:01:06
like that's just smart you well I had um
01:01:10
uh Dr Nick gil on the podcast and he
01:01:12
said he he said the big struggle now is
01:01:14
like getting players not to
01:01:16
overtrain um because everyone takes it
01:01:18
you know everyone just wants to like
01:01:20
take it to that next level yeah I
01:01:22
listened to that and I bet that was that
01:01:24
was good to listen to because it was um
01:01:26
but that's that how that's just how it's
01:01:29
evolved right that's just that's just
01:01:31
some days we used to hate training
01:01:32
because we go oh we had a [ __ ] game on
01:01:34
Saturday so Monday's going to be we're
01:01:36
going to get punished and we're going to
01:01:37
have to run and do heaps of contact and
01:01:39
if you had a good game then but but
01:01:41
today like listening to that girl like
01:01:43
it's everything is so you know we're got
01:01:45
an hour Training Day boys whether you
01:01:47
played [ __ ] or played good like it this
01:01:48
is what it is it structured so how can
01:01:51
you not enjoy that like I mean and all
01:01:53
the everything is so specific to your
01:01:57
individual back in AR back in our day
01:01:59
they pretty much threw a blanket
01:02:03
over this is what we're doing for
01:02:05
training today boys so I'm doing the
01:02:07
same as nor nor here Mark Ellen and
01:02:09
we're going to be running a 3K run and
01:02:12
and then you know so all the
01:02:14
psychologist guys like 30 guys in a room
01:02:17
we're all different but we're all listen
01:02:20
to so I still remember our first
01:02:22
psychologist came into the room and he
01:02:24
had five guys that were like man there's
01:02:25
was awesome there'd be 10 guys over
01:02:27
there going what's this guy talking
01:02:29
about there' be another five guys there
01:02:31
going sleeping in the corner so every
01:02:34
individual's uh yeah they're all
01:02:36
different and and that's just how the
01:02:37
game is gone but your Nick was he was
01:02:41
pretty cool he was he was good to listen
01:02:42
to but he said he's learned I mean when
01:02:44
he was down in denan doing his [ __ ] like
01:02:47
from then to now like that's just the
01:02:49
way the game's gone and it's ch changing
01:02:51
all the time there there was probably
01:02:52
one thing in your favor like that that
01:02:54
you got into the weights early so
01:02:56
you know when when rug yeah what was
01:02:58
your everyone everyone want to ask me on
01:02:59
Instagram what what was your best bench
01:03:02
why is that a big thing uh don't know
01:03:04
were you real strong for size or age
01:03:06
back then I don't know yeah I think i'
01:03:07
done about 160 when I was about 82 83
01:03:11
kgs but then guys
01:03:14
uh you know you can put on probably
01:03:16
today know you
01:03:17
could I don't know but I I I I think I
01:03:20
mean if I was playing today you could
01:03:22
probably you could put on 6 s kg so
01:03:25
could play at 90 kgs and then bench more
01:03:28
cuz the training is just it's just
01:03:30
different like it's you know I follow
01:03:34
old cam royard who's just coming back
01:03:35
from his knee injury quite a bad KNE
01:03:37
knee injury and some of the stuff and
01:03:41
the rehab and the stuff that he is
01:03:43
posting and what he's doing to get
01:03:44
himself back is like it's unreal like
01:03:48
and he's he's ahead of time and he's and
01:03:51
when I had my knee injury far out was
01:03:53
like pretty much good luck
01:03:56
yeah didn't you have your first where
01:03:58
you go didn't you have your first knee
01:04:00
surgery when you were like
01:04:01
16 yeah yeah yeah so yeah pretty much I
01:04:05
tore a little bit of cartilage so they
01:04:07
took the whole cartilage out so yeah
01:04:10
I've been bone on bone since yeah since
01:04:11
I was 16 so I'm it lasted quite well not
01:04:15
that good now but yeah but I mean that
01:04:17
you just they wouldn't do that now right
01:04:19
they you tell you they just repair it or
01:04:21
whatever whatever they do but that's
01:04:24
just what you did back then yeah it's
01:04:26
crazy and um John Hart did you you enjoy
01:04:29
I had him on the podcast and he it's
01:04:31
quite funny like I put a clip on Tik Tok
01:04:32
the amount of comments say like so many
01:04:35
people are still bitter about playing us
01:04:36
center it's like it was quarter of a
01:04:38
century ago I I I found the comments
01:04:40
funny because I thought it's not it's
01:04:42
not something that's um ruminating on
01:04:44
your mind every day no but other people
01:04:46
are still they they're still still dirty
01:04:48
about it but was he he was a good coach
01:04:50
I suppose you always have a special
01:04:51
place for the coach that selects you for
01:04:52
the All Blacks for the first yeah I mean
01:04:54
I enjoyed yeah I enjoy Hardy I mean he
01:04:56
was he was a good talker and uh yeah
01:05:00
yeah I mean I mean all that Center thing
01:05:03
like I don't know I suppose it was one
01:05:05
of those things where you know I think
01:05:08
there was
01:05:09
me uh Jonah
01:05:12
Goldie and tner that four players
01:05:16
doesn't go into three positions so he
01:05:18
need to find another position and um so
01:05:21
he flew down to
01:05:23
Wellington uh I think it was 90 98 Maybe
01:05:27
started 99 before the World Cup and just
01:05:30
said how' you feel about playing I said
01:05:32
oh mate I'd I was young e so I just I'd
01:05:35
play Anywhere But I guess what you don't
01:05:37
know or realize is that Center takes
01:05:40
it's quite a tough position and it takes
01:05:42
a bit of time to um all our great
01:05:44
centers in all black
01:05:46
rugby have they started off great I
01:05:49
don't know they've taken a bit of time
01:05:50
you know the Conrad Smiths and M nonu
01:05:52
and all that sort of stuff it's taken
01:05:53
time to to get them to to where they
01:05:56
were uh but then in saying that was me
01:06:00
playing Center the reason why we lost
01:06:02
the world uh the World Cup semi against
01:06:04
France I don't know absolutely not I
01:06:06
don't know hindsight's a wonderful
01:06:08
hindsight's great because we uh we had
01:06:10
tun on the wing and he end up moving to
01:06:12
Midfield later on and being one of our
01:06:13
greatest ever senders you know like it
01:06:15
was I don't know yeah it's just one of
01:06:17
those things that I think we hit France
01:06:20
on a day for 30 minutes that I don't
01:06:22
think any
01:06:23
team yeah they just everything just went
01:06:26
their way it was just one of those 30
01:06:28
minute periods of rugby that every
01:06:30
bounce every ball um yeah we made a few
01:06:33
mistakes but yeah it's good memories
01:06:39
St how how often um yeah things like
01:06:42
that how often do you think about it now
01:06:44
because I'm like I had Shane Cameron on
01:06:45
the podcast and he he said uh for the
01:06:47
first seven years after that David tour
01:06:49
fight not a day went by that he didn't
01:06:51
think about it Dion NES said the same
01:06:53
thing he said now sometimes in the
01:06:55
shower to think about things he could
01:06:56
have done differently in his career I
01:06:58
think think about other things in the
01:06:59
sh um like it for you is it is out of
01:07:03
your mind like a couple of weeks later
01:07:05
or a couple of years later
01:07:07
or uh I don't know like it's when you
01:07:11
ask me that now like that was 90 99 is a
01:07:14
long time ago for me so that's quarter
01:07:16
of a century yeah uh reasonably I think
01:07:20
it reasonably quick to be honest with
01:07:24
you like I think with I mean World Cups
01:07:27
are different because uh sort of four
01:07:29
you cycle games are easy because yeah
01:07:31
you're losing you just got to man look
01:07:33
the good thing about rugby is you get
01:07:34
usually get another week to try and sort
01:07:36
something out and you're playing Another
01:07:37
Game World Cups
01:07:39
are yeah I don't think about it the only
01:07:41
thing I think about
01:07:43
is but I don't even it doesn't even
01:07:45
worry me but I played in out of
01:07:47
position I only got a chance to play One
01:07:50
World Cup like and that was it that's
01:07:54
probably my I would love to play you
01:07:57
know I was close close to 95 but I was
01:07:59
too young I guess or not not there yet
01:08:02
and then 96 then 99 I went in 2003
01:08:06
Mitchell was there so it's kind of you
01:08:08
know possibly could have played three
01:08:10
played one and played out of position so
01:08:13
that's the only thing I but I don't sit
01:08:14
there and dwell and cry into my pillow
01:08:16
at night about it like it's no you I
01:08:18
mean like it's I know it's
01:08:20
funny no I don't is this stuff that I
01:08:24
and rugby that I don't know don't think
01:08:27
so we that was um so 99 that was going
01:08:30
into the the new millenniums that was a
01:08:31
big deal so I remember this so we we uh
01:08:34
we went and spent New Years together
01:08:35
went to some concert in napia and I
01:08:38
don't think we talked about it once like
01:08:40
I don't think it even came up in the
01:08:42
conversation that was the same year you
01:08:44
seemed unbothered by it by by that stage
01:08:47
yeah well I tend
01:08:49
to I tend to bottle things up like and
01:08:53
then what's on the outside is not
01:08:55
necessar what yeah so I wouldn't I'm not
01:08:57
a big I wouldn't be a big talker on that
01:08:59
sort of stuff and and talk about the the
01:09:02
worries or the the problems that that
01:09:05
will
01:09:06
up like a yeah would you would you talk
01:09:08
about that stuff with anyone I think
01:09:10
think that New Year Eve like you were
01:09:12
with Mandy at the time who's um now now
01:09:14
your wife I do remember actually this is
01:09:16
the um probably the only time I've known
01:09:19
you that I've seen you emotional like um
01:09:21
you did get upset that night but it was
01:09:23
because a m of viers had died in a
01:09:25
accident a week or two prior that um
01:09:28
nothing nothing to do with the any rugby
01:09:30
game that year yeah yeah yeah but yeah
01:09:32
you good at like communicating stuff
01:09:34
with Mandy or just n you just keep it
01:09:36
all to yourself uh yeah
01:09:39
like yeah yeah I'm probably more
01:09:43
probably more emotional now than what I
01:09:46
guess as you get older and and I guess
01:09:49
kids and and just things happen like do
01:09:52
you know like when we're young and like
01:09:54
that that that concert you're talking
01:09:56
about in Hawks
01:09:58
Bay like people never I think when we
01:10:01
get older more just people people start
01:10:03
dying right like it's
01:10:05
actually you know back then it was like
01:10:07
we were young and like that that stuff
01:10:08
never happen that's quite that's quite
01:10:09
harsh but and then you go through a
01:10:11
period where nothing but I think when we
01:10:12
get our age
01:10:14
now like it it's far out man life is
01:10:17
short right like it's you know we talk
01:10:19
about the sevens and in the Wellington
01:10:21
and you know that sevens team of 96 like
01:10:25
you know there's three guys that aren't
01:10:27
here you know there's Joe toi J
01:10:29
vender and Jonah are not here you know
01:10:32
Wellington NPC side that won
01:10:34
2000 uh
01:10:36
mon um Vander murther who came over from
01:10:39
SFA he's not here JC's not here Norman
01:10:42
H's just
01:10:44
passed like it's like far out man life
01:10:46
is you know it's
01:10:50
uh yes I I always think man you got to
01:10:52
got to enjoy life
01:10:54
and [ __ ] [ __ ] happens though like you
01:10:56
know we lost you know there reason why
01:10:58
we went on that Treasure Island is you
01:11:00
know we lost Mandy's brother to brain
01:11:01
Tremor and he [ __ ] barely touching 40
01:11:05
like that's just cruel that [ __ ]
01:11:08
shouldn't happen like but it does and
01:11:10
it's actually it's quite it's quite sad
01:11:13
eh like it's
01:11:15
uh yeah so I mean you got to you got to
01:11:17
enjoy life
01:11:19
like yeah oh yeah I got quite quite a
01:11:22
sad the other you when someone said that
01:11:23
you 967 I sort of s back on the far out
01:11:26
man three of those boys aren't here now
01:11:27
and they're like same age as
01:11:30
[Music]
01:11:31
me yeah yeah you had a lot lot to do
01:11:33
with them like um yeah your career in
01:11:35
Jonah's like were almost like parallel
01:11:37
weren't they like sort of starting at
01:11:39
the same time yeah yeah I mean Jonah was
01:11:41
just uh while you talk about freaks like
01:11:43
he's probably the freak and the first I
01:11:46
always say he was
01:11:48
uh your first ever he was the first
01:11:51
Global Superstar of of rugby like and
01:11:53
because he was so big and stand he stood
01:11:56
out everywhere he went like you know
01:11:58
you'd send Jonah if there's a big crowd
01:11:59
you send Jonah over there and then
01:12:01
everyone and you could just sneak off
01:12:03
down the side like but he was uh yeah he
01:12:07
was just different like he
01:12:09
was he had a massive heart like just uh
01:12:12
looked after looked after a lot of
01:12:14
people that did a lot of things that
01:12:16
probably people you know people didn't
01:12:18
know and you being in Africa and he go
01:12:20
by the B loved his music and go by the
01:12:22
big boom box and then when we left the
01:12:24
hotel just leave it for the maids and
01:12:27
you know just little things like that
01:12:29
and yeah he was uh yeah he was he was
01:12:35
and I was really lucky I I thought I was
01:12:36
really lucky I got the I had the best
01:12:38
seat in the house when Jonah played cuz
01:12:41
I never played against him once and that
01:12:42
was enough but then he came down and
01:12:44
played for Wellington so I got to sit
01:12:47
him behind at fullback and watch uh yeah
01:12:49
watch we could do so yeah I was pretty
01:12:51
lucky to to sit him behind a guy like
01:12:53
that and he was luy too yeah like
01:12:57
surrounded by good players yeah yeah I
01:12:59
mean he was uh I always think he he
01:13:01
should have been born in America cuz he
01:13:03
he just had to Big NFL energy massively
01:13:07
you know we always remember he loved his
01:13:08
cars and he' turn up to a cafe and it
01:13:11
have a big like a matrix neon like like
01:13:14
leather coat on it you just walk in
01:13:17
there and look at this guy you know
01:13:19
where he turn up to train had they been
01:13:21
waiting for a convertible bloody car and
01:13:23
he turn up and you could hear the music
01:13:24
coming down the the road and he' turn up
01:13:26
and he the roof was off and the music
01:13:28
going and like he was just uh he was
01:13:31
that guy but man yeah yeah did you have
01:13:34
a room with
01:13:36
him uh no I probably did but not a lot I
01:13:40
was more T cuz I was I I could sleep I
01:13:43
could sleep quite a bit I was quite a
01:13:45
good sleeper so T was probably one of
01:13:47
the biggest snorers in the team until he
01:13:50
become Captain he got his own room but
01:13:52
yeah I'd be yeah I'd be uh yeah could
01:13:55
pretty much go to sleep anywhere so they
01:13:57
put me with him yeah you yeah you and
01:13:59
him were tired do you remember that new
01:14:01
year we went to I think I went as your
01:14:03
plus one so Tanner and his wife k k yeah
01:14:06
and you took me as your plus one so we
01:14:08
went for a New Year's up there and for
01:14:09
some reason I don't know how this
01:14:11
happened but uh BL chuk who's one of the
01:14:14
uh captains of Team New Zealand now we
01:14:16
end up staying at his family house so BL
01:14:19
was kicked out of his Blair and his
01:14:20
brother were kicked out of their room
01:14:21
and you and I
01:14:23
were sleeping in in their
01:14:25
he and he went to school the next year
01:14:27
and even though I was sleeping in bl's
01:14:28
bed um the story he tells us that at
01:14:31
school for you know what you did over
01:14:33
the summer holidays chat he said he he
01:14:35
lied and said you slept in his bed
01:14:37
because but how cool is that those boys
01:14:39
how good they're going going now like
01:14:40
that's oh so good small world so good
01:14:43
yeah but um my recollection from that
01:14:44
time is so that they had um a massive
01:14:47
like sort of touch rugby sort of area at
01:14:48
their house up in ker K and we're
01:14:50
playing um like touch rugby on the lawn
01:14:52
there and you and um but you and tana
01:14:55
were like tackling each other and you
01:14:57
guys were going [ __ ] hard like it was
01:15:00
crazy to watch like every time you been
01:15:03
you guys would be like rolling around
01:15:04
the floor like just pissing yourself
01:15:05
laughing but from standing on the
01:15:07
sideline watching it it was intimidating
01:15:09
as
01:15:10
heal young and dumb mate young and dumb
01:15:13
yeah yeah how funny is it when you get
01:15:15
out of bed in the morning yeah I know
01:15:17
yeah yeah yeah yeah so you got to um 51
01:15:20
consecutive tests uh and uh when you got
01:15:23
to 50 you're only the 14th person to May
01:15:25
it to 50 something was a hell of a
01:15:27
milestone
01:15:29
um yeah that's
01:15:31
cool like yeah given the how [ __ ] your
01:15:34
knee was when you started like the place
01:15:36
you were coming from to make it that far
01:15:37
and the position you in was remarkable
01:15:39
eh well yeah I guess so I mean I I guess
01:15:42
that's one thing with with what Hardy
01:15:45
did was in that 99 World Cup I think I
01:15:48
was a reserve for one of the games and
01:15:51
and and he did say oh you know well um
01:15:54
you know you will you will be getting on
01:15:56
at some stage cuz and I think he knew
01:15:58
that consecutive record yeah so he I got
01:16:01
on against Italy I think so that
01:16:03
wouldn't break the you know the
01:16:05
consecutive even though I was playing at
01:16:07
Center
01:16:08
but not better not better and after
01:16:12
after Hardy who who oh Wayne Smith he
01:16:15
was the coach after that and and he he
01:16:17
loved you you had a good relationship
01:16:19
with yeah I mean Smithy was great I mean
01:16:22
he was good then and he's he's great now
01:16:24
and I think everybody in New Zealand
01:16:25
knows how how good he was and um yeah
01:16:29
had been through that the sort of the
01:16:30
Crusaders in cany and was a good player
01:16:33
himself and yeah he just had a really
01:16:35
good rapport with the players and very
01:16:38
um very Hands-On um running around the
01:16:42
pitch and uh yeah yeah I love Smithy and
01:16:46
yeah that time we had uh when he was
01:16:48
coaching us and
01:16:50
then um yeah the time where we lost a
01:16:55
couple of really you know a couple
01:16:57
really close
01:16:59
games um when he I guess that's when he
01:17:01
I think he questioned whether he was
01:17:04
good enough to to be in the role or not
01:17:07
and like I think I said to you earlier
01:17:09
like it's almost like Smithy took he
01:17:12
took the losses really hard like as
01:17:14
probably harder than some of the players
01:17:16
and but that's just how that's how
01:17:19
passionate and how much he loved loved
01:17:21
the All Blacks and then obviously that's
01:17:23
what happened uh when he went back for
01:17:25
that was at the interview uh to get get
01:17:28
the job back in whatever year it was 203
01:17:30
I think with him and Mitchell but yeah
01:17:35
he but yeah I mean we all know now how
01:17:38
good he is and everybody wants him and
01:17:40
you know they call him the professor and
01:17:42
and what he's done with the women's game
01:17:44
and uh and the men's game but yeah he
01:17:47
was he was one of my favorite him and
01:17:49
him and Dave renie two of my favorite
01:17:53
coaches yeah
01:17:55
and and your dad and my dad your dad
01:17:58
early on yeah yeah well he was dad was
01:18:00
hard he was yeah he didn't who who was
01:18:02
harder um Chris Kellen or um Gordon
01:18:05
titens
01:18:07
oh oh yeah well titch was yeah titch was
01:18:11
tough yeah he was yeah he had joy in
01:18:13
seeing people
01:18:15
break yeah but I was probably more
01:18:17
scared of dad like yeah we stitch TCH
01:18:20
isn't going to give you a smack with the
01:18:22
belt is he no no no I always remember
01:18:24
cuz Dad used to work down paru and we
01:18:25
used to after school have to catch the
01:18:28
train down to uh pmon because we used to
01:18:30
play for paramedic Plum and we lived in
01:18:31
pck so we catch the train down and it
01:18:33
used to work out the train would get
01:18:35
there at 4: and whatever training
01:18:36
started at High 4 or 10 4 and we used
01:18:39
just to stand up at the top of the hill
01:18:41
and we could see the train coming from
01:18:42
pram and then one day I was really and
01:18:44
we used to when we seen it we could had
01:18:47
about a 400 meter sprint down to the
01:18:49
train station you get there train will
01:18:51
pull up you get in and this one day
01:18:52
we're there and the sun was kind of in
01:18:54
out eyes and and I reckon we're going is
01:18:57
that the train we can't is that the
01:18:58
train we can't see it and then then it
01:19:00
come through the sun we see oh man so we
01:19:03
would have been 20 M behind what we
01:19:05
should have been and we took off and
01:19:07
just as we got the Train the doors were
01:19:08
closing so we missed our train down the
01:19:10
training so that's when the fear came in
01:19:13
because we knew dad was coming from
01:19:15
parua so when we didn't so we turned up
01:19:18
on the next train and then yeah that's
01:19:21
yes so I was probably more afraid of of
01:19:23
that of that yeah so me and me and my I
01:19:27
think my brother and maybe I think Daryl
01:19:29
uh we turned up late for training and
01:19:31
yeah yeah wasn't good you knew about it
01:19:34
running punishment your dad's a hard man
01:19:36
it's like does I've never seen him in
01:19:38
long pants so you were see him um like
01:19:41
at a Wellington game in the middle of
01:19:42
winter it be freezing you just have like
01:19:44
a shorts on I think they when they did a
01:19:46
tour to Scotland when they came over one
01:19:48
of those test matches and they came into
01:19:51
the afterm match so you needed long
01:19:52
pants so so he wore shorts to the game
01:19:55
and then had his long pegs in his
01:19:56
backpack to put on to go to the afterm
01:19:59
match that's the talk that's a great oh
01:20:02
what about Frank Oliver what what was he
01:20:04
like Frank was your Frank was just Frank
01:20:07
Frank was great he's I love Frank he was
01:20:09
um just old
01:20:11
school um yeah very hard on the forwards
01:20:15
but bit of a pussycat with us backs yeah
01:20:19
I love I used to love some of his um
01:20:22
speeches before games and yeah he used
01:20:25
uh yeah some of his talks you tried not
01:20:27
to laugh because some of the [ __ ] he
01:20:29
said you know like oh like what oh what
01:20:32
was one of the we're in Hawks Bay
01:20:34
playing I can't remember we're playing
01:20:35
maybe transv or someone and he and he
01:20:38
just in his Gruff in his voice right
01:20:40
righto boys let's let's see if you
01:20:43
[ __ ] as your [ __ ] hairs on your
01:20:45
balls as it just
01:20:48
fluff and all us backs are sitting in
01:20:51
the we're sitting in the back kind of
01:20:53
trying to giggle but
01:20:55
no Frank was great he's uh he's awesome
01:20:58
yeah I love frank and there was a shame
01:21:00
when we um when he passed and but that
01:21:04
was Frank right I think he was there I
01:21:06
don't know I heard he had a few issues
01:21:07
and he he was just working out on the
01:21:09
trees and doing to sing
01:21:11
and you know if he had have maybe got
01:21:14
gone and got looked up or checked up and
01:21:16
I I don't know like
01:21:18
these yeah just old school I remember
01:21:20
cuz I was working on local radio at the
01:21:22
time and palas norn had come in
01:21:25
a couple of times I called him filth
01:21:26
because that was his nickname filthy
01:21:29
FR don't call me filth don't call me
01:21:31
filth please call me Frank yeah no he
01:21:33
was good he was good Val a lot of those
01:21:35
lot of those old boys are like you know
01:21:37
we've had a few of them down through our
01:21:38
golf tournaments and and and gone to
01:21:40
different function uh you know and Kur
01:21:42
Patrick and boys like that they're great
01:21:45
they're great to talk to and I love
01:21:47
talking about you know some of the old
01:21:48
days when they used to go go on tour and
01:21:51
yeah some of the stuff that they did and
01:21:54
yeah that they good value oh thanks for
01:21:55
sharing those memories that's cool
01:21:58
um now the the mitual stuff so so Smithy
01:22:03
um loses the job the nju decide to
01:22:05
replace him with um Robbie Deans and
01:22:08
John Mitchell what's your previous
01:22:11
interactions with those
01:22:12
guys uh no not much they
01:22:16
done maybe Robbie Deans a few times just
01:22:19
a I think he was a mentor maybe for the
01:22:21
All Blacks at one point with the
01:22:23
fullbacks and I had a bit of a kicking
01:22:25
session for half an hour one day but
01:22:26
that was yeah pretty much it yeah so
01:22:29
didn't really know what to what to
01:22:31
expect yeah and then then so what
01:22:33
happens what's your first sort of
01:22:35
interactions
01:22:37
um can you oh yeah can you even remember
01:22:41
or do should we just do want to graze
01:22:42
over this uh yeah no not really I mean I
01:22:44
don't really so so they came in
01:22:46
20 when were they in there though that's
01:22:49
the was it 202 or 203 I can't remember
01:22:52
about what I do remember is I knew that
01:22:54
my time
01:22:55
was uh
01:22:57
on yeah it was short it was going to be
01:22:59
short if these if both of them were
01:23:01
there like had a few meetings during the
01:23:04
year and I I can still remember that one
01:23:07
meeting that me and my manager at the
01:23:10
time Dave mon went in and had a chat to
01:23:12
Mitchell I don't know why but it was I
01:23:15
don't know I don't know why we went had
01:23:16
a meeting with him but and we walked out
01:23:18
of that meeting and I was confused and
01:23:21
Dave was confused
01:23:22
and yeah it was you mat talking in rles
01:23:25
and what I needed to work on and I think
01:23:28
one of the work on that I needed was my
01:23:31
thumb grip on the
01:23:34
ball and and at that point you'd played
01:23:37
50s something test you were the um You
01:23:40
Higher scoring all black
01:23:42
ever yeah so it seems like something
01:23:45
that your dad should have been teaching
01:23:46
you when you were playing for him at 5
01:23:48
to8 years old they th yeah I mean there
01:23:50
must have been like a you and Dave you
01:23:53
must have got back in the car and then
01:23:54
what you're like what the [ __ ] was that
01:23:56
all about yeah I would just both and I I
01:23:58
think just stuff happened over the year
01:24:00
like I hurt my knee at like there's just
01:24:02
little things that sort of that built up
01:24:04
and I hurt my knee uh down in Den when
01:24:07
uh leading up to the arish test and I
01:24:10
spoke to Doc Mayu and I was so I went
01:24:12
back went back home on about the
01:24:14
Thursday and pretty much told just you
01:24:17
just got AR rest in Physio and and rehab
01:24:19
and then you know get a ring from John
01:24:22
Mitchell on the S day um
01:24:24
and I was it was pretty much howy you
01:24:26
going yeah good how come you're not
01:24:28
playing Club rber this week and I was
01:24:30
like uh because my knees [ __ ] and John
01:24:32
Mitchell uh um John mahu told me not to
01:24:35
play and then I was pretty much oh you
01:24:37
know I'll call the shots around here and
01:24:39
and then I was like oh yeah okay sweet
01:24:42
and then that's how pretty much how it
01:24:43
ended well good luck with the test
01:24:45
tonight and then yeah so that sort of
01:24:48
stuff like that was kind of happening so
01:24:50
I thought oh [ __ ] this ain't going to so
01:24:53
you just s of get the get vibe that
01:24:54
you're in no man's land yeah yeah yeah
01:24:57
and
01:24:58
um look I never and then yeah whatever
01:25:02
that all black season happened and then
01:25:04
then Wellington um NPC kicked off and
01:25:07
then played there and played played okay
01:25:10
but I just kind of I knew the writing
01:25:12
was on the wall if um if Mitch Mitchell
01:25:14
and Deans were there and I just I just
01:25:16
knew there's there's no future for me in
01:25:19
New Zealand
01:25:20
so look I didn't want to I didn't want
01:25:23
to leave New Zealand was actually is
01:25:26
like I wanted to you know I was on 85
01:25:28
games with the Hurricanes you know
01:25:29
wanted to get 100 and [ __ ] I'm bit of a
01:25:33
home boy and didn't really like I want
01:25:35
to go overseason and play play rugby you
01:25:38
know I wanted to finish off my stuff in
01:25:39
New Zealand but you know I was still
01:25:41
only 27 and then as it happens you know
01:25:44
played the played the NPC and then then
01:25:47
Chris leam had pulled out of a deal that
01:25:48
he was in mster in Ireland and um alen
01:25:51
geffy who was the coach for Monster was
01:25:53
in Aussie and he
01:25:54
laan pulled out and then somehow we got
01:25:57
hold of him and then pretty much I made
01:25:59
a decision within two weeks to to go and
01:26:03
it was quite I don't know I
01:26:06
was yeah it was quite S I mean I was sad
01:26:09
I was you know I didn't want to go
01:26:12
and yeah and then yeah then me and Mandy
01:26:15
packed up and and pretty much left and
01:26:17
the only the only cool thing about that
01:26:19
year was not the all black stuff or what
01:26:21
had happened was that and as I I
01:26:24
appreciate it more now probably not not
01:26:26
then is that I got to play my last game
01:26:29
uh in New Zealand uh at Wellington in
01:26:32
front of a pretty good crowd for the
01:26:34
final against uh against ockland oh how
01:26:37
good uh even though we lost but yeah it
01:26:41
was sort of one of those things where
01:26:42
and then I got injured and then so I got
01:26:45
to come off and got a few claps
01:26:48
and appreciated it but didn't quite you
01:26:51
know soak it him because I was still a
01:26:53
little bit down that
01:26:55
you know this was it um then I was going
01:26:59
on a book tour cuz I [ __ ] did that
01:27:01
book and and then I was pretty much gone
01:27:04
so yeah all happened really really
01:27:07
quickly but yeah the there was just no
01:27:09
future and for me I'm mean you said
01:27:11
there was a few cheers I'm going to have
01:27:13
to like go back and review this on
01:27:14
YouTube afterwards but um was there a
01:27:16
few cheers or are you playing it down I
01:27:19
feel like was it more like a standing
01:27:21
ovation from the entire cakon
01:27:24
Yeah well yeah I don't know few people
01:27:26
standing maybe yeah I don't know like it
01:27:28
just was
01:27:29
um yeah I mean I mean appreciated it
01:27:32
like it was like I I love Wellington and
01:27:35
I I said es I mean and with the
01:27:38
Hurricanes like when I got to my 50th
01:27:40
game and you do a little talk in front
01:27:42
of them and I said like I even though we
01:27:45
had lost a few games like it's I just
01:27:47
wouldn't want to be anywhere else like
01:27:48
uh I was always going to be you know
01:27:52
even though I'd played for mental T in
01:27:54
for I was still a Wellington hurricane
01:27:56
that region like I was never going to go
01:28:00
out of it and uh so I was really really
01:28:02
proud for the hurricanes and then play
01:28:04
for Wellington and and just for the
01:28:06
crowd I guess to appreciate and that uh
01:28:09
what you'd put in and if they enjoyed it
01:28:11
that was great like U you know you I
01:28:14
guess I appreciated the the the claps
01:28:16
and that when you when I came off
01:28:19
because I think there's a couple of um
01:28:20
truths about kiwi they first of all we
01:28:22
like we love a champion someone that's
01:28:24
really good at what they do but also um
01:28:26
we we love rooting for um an underdog or
01:28:29
sticking up for someone where there's
01:28:30
been a perceived you know an injustice
01:28:33
perceived or otherwise so I feel like um
01:28:35
you must have felt this as well and you
01:28:36
must still feel it now like quarter of a
01:28:38
cur 21 years later or whatever it is
01:28:40
like people really feel you got done
01:28:42
dirty yeah it's funny how they're still
01:28:44
talking about it I mean it's like bring
01:28:46
back Buck that's you know people still
01:28:47
talking about cuz I'm I'm sort of too
01:28:49
young to remember what the bu shord
01:28:51
thing was but I remember the meme you
01:28:52
know bring back back and now sort of
01:28:54
like yeah people still say bring back
01:28:56
Cali yeah yeah uh yeah it must be it's
01:28:59
humbling right it's gratifying it is
01:29:00
it's um people care right people care
01:29:03
about our rugby in New Zealand so and
01:29:06
then yeah the good thing about I gu not
01:29:09
the good thing but is from all over the
01:29:11
country obviously you know you think you
01:29:14
know you get the support from your
01:29:16
Wellington Wellington people but you
01:29:18
know there's a few people from outside
01:29:20
so yeah TalkBack was going off and I
01:29:22
guess it was a good it was a good week
01:29:23
for back I guess I don't know not a
01:29:26
great week for Mitch not a great week
01:29:27
for Mitch but yeah I don't know it's
01:29:29
just I guess it it is what it is right
01:29:31
and uh every coach that comes into that
01:29:33
all all black environment um you know
01:29:36
they want to do it their way and whether
01:29:39
that's that's the old way or the new way
01:29:41
or whatever that's it is what it is
01:29:43
right and you I guess got to roll with
01:29:45
it and I I seen the rting on the wall
01:29:47
and yeah so that's I mean I know people
01:29:52
talk about it and yeah okay we're upset
01:29:54
said it at the time but man I'm I'm
01:29:56
reasonbly over it now yeah how yeah how
01:29:59
long how long did it take like
01:30:01
realistically oh look yeah I mean I were
01:30:03
you bitter about it for a while or not
01:30:05
really was I bitter I don't know if I
01:30:07
was was I bitter I don't know
01:30:12
um I don't know I know I know okay times
01:30:16
have changed right so today you know you
01:30:18
get a ring and have a chat and you know
01:30:20
this is the reasons why ra and you know
01:30:23
but we got there's pretty much none of
01:30:25
that it was more read it in the paper
01:30:27
you know you put
01:30:29
in whatever five six years and then see
01:30:33
later um no yeah there was just nothing
01:30:36
like it was just as I said to you you're
01:30:39
like an old chair they were just pushing
01:30:40
you out see you later bro we'll get
01:30:42
another these new chers are coming in
01:30:46
so I don't know back then I
01:30:50
guess was was dealing the M back in the
01:30:54
old days in kit Patrick's Day and the
01:30:55
boy when they got dropped I'm sure they
01:30:57
they wouldn't know cuz there's no I
01:30:59
don't know so it's just different I know
01:31:00
to that that just wouldn't happen today
01:31:02
like a bit more respect than you know R
01:31:05
but I don't know was all better I don't
01:31:08
know but it was just one of year I don't
01:31:10
know I went to Ireland and uh you you're
01:31:13
away from everything and then 2003
01:31:16
happened with the the World Cup and it's
01:31:18
I felt really bad for the boys I was
01:31:20
like
01:31:24
do I mean hindsight's kind of a kind of
01:31:26
a pointless game but do you think um cuz
01:31:28
in that last year of Wayne Smith like
01:31:29
you had you there was some knee [ __ ]
01:31:31
going on and you you probably weren't
01:31:33
potentially playing at the absolute best
01:31:35
you've been playing but do you think
01:31:36
with the the you know with the right
01:31:37
rehab program and the right care and
01:31:39
support from Mitchell and Deans you
01:31:41
could have been back to playing your
01:31:42
best yeah but I think that's as I say
01:31:45
it's like you know speaking to n girl
01:31:48
about training and Rehab like it's just
01:31:50
different like
01:31:52
we Super Rugby season I can remember I'd
01:31:56
play on a sad day and then try get
01:31:57
through trainings and then go for a
01:31:58
coffee of Dave uh during the week and
01:32:01
then I'd sit down for half an hour I'll
01:32:02
go to try get up and my knee would knee
01:32:04
would be locked mhm and and then you
01:32:07
know take some pills and then play s day
01:32:10
and that's how my super rugy season was
01:32:13
and then as soon as I got into the All
01:32:14
Blacks and Doc mahu like man we might
01:32:17
need to get you go for so go for an
01:32:19
operation and get it sorted and then so
01:32:20
it's kind of like that like You' try
01:32:22
hang on and hang on and hang on on to a
01:32:25
point and then you just couldn't hang on
01:32:26
anymore and then you go get it sorted
01:32:28
where today that just wouldn't happen
01:32:31
and then coming back from it as I said
01:32:32
to you about with cams re like some of
01:32:34
the stuff that the in the science and
01:32:36
the in their base in Wellington is just
01:32:39
unreal like it just yeah like it's yeah
01:32:44
I mean if if we had looked after our
01:32:46
bodies and got the what they have today
01:32:50
but we didn't cuz that's just what it
01:32:51
was yeahp so we can't we
01:32:54
but we can say that I'd love to be
01:32:56
playing today's game even though it's a
01:32:58
bit different and it's struggling with
01:33:00
crowds and it's but just the science
01:33:03
behind the trainings and everything like
01:33:06
that could be cool yeah but then but
01:33:08
then we had all the crowds and all the
01:33:10
HOA and people and whatever yeah what
01:33:14
why hasn't like in the in the 22 years
01:33:16
or whatever since you stopped why has no
01:33:18
one been able to do what you do in terms
01:33:20
of like stepping off both feet and just
01:33:22
that speed and running past people I
01:33:25
don't know mate I mean just just too
01:33:29
good I don't know like I always say now
01:33:32
like if you're a good
01:33:34
athlete like it' be hard not to be a
01:33:36
good rugby player just because of the
01:33:38
information that they can feed you now
01:33:40
like it's and and then you'll get you
01:33:43
get that guy and then you'll get like a
01:33:45
bat and Barrett who has the X Factor and
01:33:48
then feed them all the information like
01:33:50
it's just hard not to be a good R rugby
01:33:52
player like I don't know like it's we
01:33:54
back in our day I don't know everyone
01:33:57
you just get expect the players would
01:33:58
stand out because all our training I
01:34:01
don't know how good our trainings were I
01:34:03
remember the rehab I had for my knee
01:34:05
when I come back was [ __ ] [ __ ] like
01:34:09
yeah but then at the time it would have
01:34:10
been the state-ofthe-art it would have
01:34:11
been the the the absolute best advice
01:34:13
available right yeah yeah yeah yeah
01:34:15
wouldn't it like well yeah well yeah
01:34:18
probably yeah well yeah I was playing
01:34:19
for the with the or so yeah but yeah
01:34:22
yeah I mean comp it's now like just
01:34:24
alarmingly primitive yeah I and you know
01:34:26
all the all the um analysis now so
01:34:28
defenses are better players are bigger
01:34:31
players are stronger players are you
01:34:33
know it's just yeah this things are
01:34:36
different so yeah one last question
01:34:40
about Mitchell by the way thanks for
01:34:42
thanks for talking about it because I
01:34:43
know I know that you're just indifferent
01:34:45
about it now like there's no chip on
01:34:47
your shoulder you just I can tell it's
01:34:49
just not something that you even think
01:34:50
about um yeah I mean look I mean if I
01:34:53
was a room and there's a bunch of people
01:34:55
there and he was there like would I go
01:34:56
have a beer for him well I don't know
01:34:58
but I mean I wouldn't you know I'd go
01:35:02
see some other dude over there probably
01:35:05
first but that I don't know and I don't
01:35:07
like people but i' go meet that guy over
01:35:09
there
01:35:10
but yeah I have been in a room I have
01:35:13
been in a room before where over in
01:35:14
South Africa and he was there and yeah I
01:35:17
could see the head and I could see it
01:35:18
moving around and I just kept them
01:35:19
moving other
01:35:21
way and then I ended up going out and
01:35:24
get a taxi to go back to the hotel cuz I
01:35:25
just couldn't be bothered like I was
01:35:27
like nothing yeah nothing to nothing to
01:35:29
say what are we going to chat about
01:35:30
small talk I'm sh at small talk yeah um
01:35:33
they also yeah I mean it's so long ago
01:35:35
there's no sort of need to clear the air
01:35:37
really is it what's done is done um but
01:35:40
I was listening to James Marshall's
01:35:42
whated podcast and he had Daryl Mitchell
01:35:44
on oh yeah who's John Mitchell's son and
01:35:46
he said he was like I don't know 9 10 11
01:35:49
years old at the time and he said you
01:35:50
were his favorite player and he was so
01:35:51
mad at his dad he didn't speak to him
01:35:53
for like
01:35:54
yeah well that's cool cuz I I think I
01:35:57
think the Hamilton test probably won my
01:35:58
last test and when MCH was coaching and
01:36:01
then young Mitchells come into the
01:36:03
change room afterwards so I gave so it
01:36:05
must have been home I given him my
01:36:06
shorts and socks and then a week later I
01:36:09
get dropped I was like so there baby
01:36:11
white speak was there for three for
01:36:13
three months or whatever yeah oh yeah in
01:36:16
your in your book um you you call him a
01:36:18
dick um like do do you how do you feel
01:36:21
about that now oh well probably probably
01:36:24
probably was back then I mean I don't
01:36:26
know I know I know mates that have um
01:36:29
had things to do uh mital over the years
01:36:32
just through rugby and coaching and
01:36:35
um um training stuff and that so and I
01:36:38
mean we all live and we learn and we
01:36:40
improve and and he's uh and by all
01:36:43
accounts he's he's changed and he's
01:36:45
learned and he's whatever so back then I
01:36:48
did think he was a dick just but that's
01:36:51
probably my own selfish thing because I
01:36:53
got dropped so obviously you get dropped
01:36:56
B from a coach you're going to think
01:36:58
he's a dick yeah also I well yeah you're
01:37:02
you're a very fair and measured measured
01:37:05
is probably a good word for you actually
01:37:06
you're you're a very measured person so
01:37:08
I feel like if um if a Coach dropped you
01:37:10
but um communicated um you know fairly
01:37:14
inaccurately the reason why like I
01:37:16
thought you you know you wouldn't call
01:37:18
you wouldn't just call anyone a dick no
01:37:19
well yeah that's right yeah yeah yeah
01:37:22
that is correct yeah yeah I don't like
01:37:24
conflict or I don't like yeah no yeah
01:37:26
that sort of stuff so but then hey
01:37:29
that's just that wasn't how it was done
01:37:30
back then right that's but yeah and you
01:37:34
talk about him changing in that time um
01:37:36
this this podcast has been amazing so
01:37:38
far you're um yeah hard to
01:37:41
imagine you know this Christian here
01:37:44
being the same as Christian from like
01:37:45
when we first met 20 25 years ago
01:37:47
whatever well I've seen interviews back
01:37:49
then Dom and I was a very very much a
01:37:51
yes no guy well I I get the feeling like
01:37:54
if you had a good game like that second
01:37:56
test against Scotland where you scored
01:37:57
four drives you you're probably like
01:37:58
more nervous about like being
01:38:00
interviewed after the game than the game
01:38:01
itself
01:38:03
correct oh no we have to do media get
01:38:06
some the match you're kidding me yeah
01:38:09
somebody else oh um oh let's yeah move I
01:38:15
Ireland was isand a good time you enjoy
01:38:16
your time over there yeah Island was
01:38:19
really interesting so when my last game
01:38:20
in Wellington I um when I came off to
01:38:23
that a few people clapping i' hurt my
01:38:26
shoulder and like I couldn't lift it so
01:38:28
we thought it was just a bit of nerve
01:38:29
stuff and it um and so phys and doctor
01:38:32
said I know you'll come right um it
01:38:33
should be right and so I went off and
01:38:34
did a book to her for whatever two weeks
01:38:36
and then got on a plane flew to
01:38:38
Island and then yeah when I got there
01:38:41
like it just didn't come right
01:38:43
so to to credit to monster like they
01:38:47
could have said uh R rip your contract
01:38:48
up see you later go back to New Zealand
01:38:51
so I pretty much got there had to three
01:38:53
weeks my arm not coming right went to
01:38:54
Physio then went to the doctor and then
01:38:56
sent me to surgeon so I pretty much got
01:38:58
an operation and was out for six so I
01:39:00
got there then I was out for six months
01:39:02
with my shoulder so I was like you know
01:39:06
turning up to the trainings watching the
01:39:08
guys my arms in a sling so it wasn't a
01:39:10
great yeah it wasn't a great start um
01:39:14
you feel guilty like when you've been
01:39:15
paid good money and you you know well
01:39:17
yeah yeah yeah a little bit I mean it's
01:39:19
I mean you want to go over there make a
01:39:20
good impression and and not be injured
01:39:23
so it I mean hey it's it's tough going
01:39:25
somewhere new anyway in in a new
01:39:28
environment but going there and then
01:39:29
being injured straight off the bat it's
01:39:31
like who's this guy come over from
01:39:33
bloody New Zealand Christian Kellen he's
01:39:34
bloody injured um it's like we we wanted
01:39:37
Christian Kell from the or but inste we
01:39:38
got Christian King from Teemu yeah
01:39:41
pretty much yeah so I mean it was really
01:39:44
because I guess it was the start of
01:39:46
players G especially to like the monster
01:39:49
so we turned up there like like my Visa
01:39:51
was all sorted cuz I had to play players
01:39:53
Visa or whatever they sort that but you
01:39:55
know my partner man him more wife it now
01:39:58
like they had we turned up to the
01:39:59
customs and Cork Airport and was like
01:40:02
where's your Visa like uh trying to look
01:40:05
for the monster guys out through the
01:40:06
Customs I don't know you know so it was
01:40:08
a bit like that so that they had sorted
01:40:10
her out so we had to get you know was it
01:40:12
was a [ __ ] it was a mess so we had to
01:40:15
yeah say oh she's just on holiday and
01:40:18
then got her through and then went to
01:40:20
send something back to get a Visa so it
01:40:22
was all really really messy for that and
01:40:25
then I was injured and so it was just
01:40:26
the balls up for the first year pretty
01:40:28
much and then come back and after a year
01:40:31
come back had a really good run of about
01:40:32
40 OD games and then I did my other
01:40:36
shoulder so yeah so I mean it was and
01:40:40
then went and then then the IR they sent
01:40:43
me to a surgeon that would operate on
01:40:45
your granddad and so after about a month
01:40:48
I go oh just doesn't feel right when and
01:40:51
got it scanned and as the repair had
01:40:52
come off then I had to go over to London
01:40:55
to get a Aussie surgeon a sports surgeon
01:40:59
proper surgeon to redo it um so yeah
01:41:03
like it was like a six-month injury then
01:41:04
turned into a sort of a 10 to 11 month
01:41:07
injury um yeah then come back from that
01:41:10
and then played another handful of games
01:41:12
and then I think like I did did my ankle
01:41:16
quite bad then come back from that then
01:41:18
tweak the Cal and so just things were
01:41:20
just building up over time so I had
01:41:22
about five seasons there and
01:41:23
I I had about two and a half years with
01:41:25
her injuries like it was just yeah so
01:41:28
yeah by the end of it I'd had I'd had
01:41:30
enough it was quite a good people great
01:41:33
monster were great the boys were great
01:41:36
um yeah I didn't come home the whole
01:41:38
five years I was here like it's it's a
01:41:40
long way like it's I don't know if you
01:41:42
ever been to Ireland you probably have
01:41:43
but it's a long way and it's a bit of a
01:41:46
ball L to get there and the only good
01:41:48
thing over there was it was cheap to go
01:41:50
on holidays like to Greece and to Spain
01:41:53
and and so we had a lot of yeah a lot of
01:41:56
pretty cool holidays to those sort of
01:41:57
places where I just wouldn't go now cuz
01:41:59
I don't I not that Keen on sitting on a
01:42:02
on a plane for 15 20 hours to go
01:42:04
anywhere like so we did a lot of that
01:42:07
traveling over there then yeah um oh
01:42:09
this is pre kids as well right pre kids
01:42:12
we did uh we adopted a um box of dog
01:42:14
over there which was um yeah was pretty
01:42:17
cool so that's right what was his name
01:42:19
Austin Austin that's right it belonged
01:42:21
to like a myth head next door yeah yeah
01:42:23
yeah not that we're in a bad area or
01:42:24
anything but this guy but yeah this dog
01:42:26
used to jump boxer he was awesome used
01:42:28
to jump over this pretty fence as tall
01:42:30
as you and we'd walk and we'd have him
01:42:32
for two or three days and we go back
01:42:33
knock on the Stew's door like M we got
01:42:35
your dog oh yeah and then he would jump
01:42:36
back over our fence the next day and
01:42:38
then we ended up going going to the
01:42:40
police and saying oh what Eric we should
01:42:41
do and they said well as he go down to
01:42:44
the vets SE he's thing and he wasn't so
01:42:46
we got a chipping him and and then we
01:42:48
just kept him another dude next door to
01:42:50
him even care but he ended up being the
01:42:52
best dog ever us a um prettyy much a
01:42:54
first class ticket to get home yeah I
01:42:56
remember you remember your dad saying at
01:42:58
the time like when you were um foring at
01:43:00
all this money to get the dog home he
01:43:01
was like [ __ ] better not get run over
01:43:03
him the first week oh oh he was choice
01:43:05
so like it was um it was a boxer big
01:43:08
white thing patch on his eye like it was
01:43:11
one of a kind but yeah you couldn't I
01:43:13
couldn't leave him there so we had to
01:43:16
yeah we had to get him home and yeah he
01:43:18
had a pretty good life when he got home
01:43:19
and you know down the beach and yes so I
01:43:22
was pretty happy even I think he might
01:43:23
have cost 15 grand to get
01:43:25
home you can't put a can't put a price
01:43:28
on that though can you no no no you
01:43:30
don't you got a few good years out of
01:43:31
him too absolutely yeah he is great um
01:43:35
oh I've got on my notes to talk about
01:43:37
lock lockdown games and and on Instagram
01:43:40
how good was that so you're you're not
01:43:42
very active on social media but um yeah
01:43:43
during the co lockdown you've got um
01:43:46
nice house with a big Plott land um
01:43:48
these clips were going off golfing Clips
01:43:50
rugby Clips yeah well I've seen uh SE
01:43:53
Carlos doing a few so I said oh yeah I
01:43:55
can do that so yeah we uh and plus
01:43:57
joined that lockdown stuff he like um
01:43:59
the weather was pretty nice and got
01:44:01
outside and yeah so set a few of them up
01:44:04
and yeah a few basketball ones and uh
01:44:07
rugby balls and golf ones and yeah and
01:44:10
it took some of
01:44:12
them some of them took quite a long time
01:44:15
to do but others like were legit like
01:44:19
took me two or three and I'd be like 20
01:44:21
30 m back and they' be one of two throws
01:44:23
and you get it in you that's like
01:44:24
sometimes you go you look pretty shocked
01:44:26
but now they're pretty fun to do and
01:44:28
then the kids are out there trying to do
01:44:30
them and yeah that was good fun yeah
01:44:32
still got it eh not that we W another
01:44:33
lockdown but no no no but that was good
01:44:36
fun it looked like um yeah I thought
01:44:38
about that when I saw you and you you
01:44:39
just at home and you've got a very nice
01:44:41
house everything you need there and
01:44:42
you're surrounded with your kids and
01:44:43
your wife um I feel like lockdown would
01:44:45
have been quite enjoyable for you have
01:44:48
if you could have access to the golf
01:44:50
course as well yeah yeah well we could
01:44:52
have we still could have
01:44:53
well where we are I can hit a wedge
01:44:55
probably we can hit a wedge out there so
01:44:57
I was doing some golf uh some golf ones
01:44:59
into a bucket and uh and that sort of
01:45:02
stuff so that was good good fun then you
01:45:04
I don't know yeah I'm not not big on
01:45:06
social media I'm yeah more get the kids
01:45:08
or the or the wife to post stuff but
01:45:11
yeah I don't really know how to do it
01:45:12
you you're not even big on texting like
01:45:14
I'll I'll send you like a big message
01:45:16
like a paragraph and you'll just reply
01:45:18
maybe straight away maybe a day maybe
01:45:20
two days later just the shakerra Emoji
01:45:23
sh BR is that not easy though it's easy
01:45:26
yeah yeah I like that uh what the GI I
01:45:30
sent cuz Treasure Island started last
01:45:32
night so MSY sent me a um oh you know
01:45:36
getting a bit nervous and I just sent
01:45:37
him that gift with hom Simpson going
01:45:39
back into the
01:45:41
bush no words neither sometimes yeah I'm
01:45:44
not sometimes you talk people talk too
01:45:46
much and you don't need too many words
01:45:48
yeah yeah it's pretty easy yeah look at
01:45:50
you experimenting with GS yeah yeah yeah
01:45:53
took me a while to find them though um
01:45:56
yeah what about you are you proud of
01:45:58
yourself uh well yeah I guess yeah I
01:46:02
guess so it's
01:46:04
um I don't know it's it's pretty cool
01:46:06
now that uh you know your kids are a bit
01:46:08
older than they can see stuff that you
01:46:11
you used to do and they' watch stuff on
01:46:14
YouTube
01:46:15
[Music]
01:46:16
and yeah so it it was part of your life
01:46:19
that was was a lot of fun and did ride
01:46:23
and yeah I mean the one thing you're
01:46:26
probably proud of is you know uh the All
01:46:31
Blacks have have been going since I
01:46:33
think like 1890 or you know the early
01:46:37
1900s and there's not many of us I think
01:46:40
I know I don't know what the name what
01:46:42
it is now I think I was all black number
01:46:44
nine i' just say 972 or 976 or something
01:46:47
so and now it might be whatever but
01:46:50
there's not many of us over sh however a
01:46:54
long it is over 100 plus odd years so I
01:46:57
think that's a pretty cool a pretty cool
01:47:00
group to be in and I think the the cool
01:47:02
thing about the group is wherever you go
01:47:05
if you go into a room and I'm there
01:47:08
there might be a guy from the the 1970s
01:47:10
or 60s like you've got something in
01:47:13
common straight away and you can
01:47:15
generally just have a chat about stuff
01:47:18
and I think that's really that's really
01:47:20
cool like I get on quite well with some
01:47:22
of
01:47:23
of the the older generation which is
01:47:26
cool it's great that's special and and
01:47:29
um yeah you did so much in in a
01:47:31
relatively short career like oh like bod
01:47:34
is um just nipping on your heels in the
01:47:36
um in the overall TriCore States I think
01:47:38
he's like two behind you or something is
01:47:40
he I think so oh come on mate how many
01:47:42
games have he had though oh yeah yeah
01:47:44
that's true you look at his games he's
01:47:46
over 100 y yeah yeah yeah yeah so um
01:47:49
yeah does does that um yeah do the stats
01:47:52
or records or anything things that to
01:47:53
bother you or not really no no no I mean
01:47:56
records are made to be broken and apart
01:47:58
from the Hong Kong one yeah
01:48:02
yeah yeah yeah yeah but yeah know that's
01:48:05
uh I guess yeah I mean that's I guess
01:48:06
they're knocking that what not they're
01:48:07
doing that Stadium but yeah that one
01:48:09
will stand forever but yeah I mean all
01:48:10
black records and that like
01:48:13
um it's when we were there that was cool
01:48:16
you you got a record you got the tri
01:48:17
scoring record but yeah mate you know
01:48:20
will Jordan if he sticks around in New
01:48:22
Zealand he'll break or I think that
01:48:24
he'll break tric records in New Zealand
01:48:27
you know I said that the other day you
01:48:29
know one thing that I about podcast and
01:48:31
all these [ __ ] that you do with the
01:48:32
media and that is how people take little
01:48:34
things that you say and they put it up
01:48:36
there but they don't get the context of
01:48:37
what you've actually said that [ __ ]
01:48:39
really pusses me off you know I was like
01:48:40
you know will Jordan will break you know
01:48:42
Tri SC records you know and I was
01:48:43
meeting New Zealand and someone gets it
01:48:45
up there about you know he's going to
01:48:47
break every Tri score and there's some
01:48:48
guy in Japan that scored [ __ ] 100 or
01:48:50
something and I'm going well I wasn't
01:48:52
talking about that guy yeah yeah yeah
01:48:53
just but but I just think yeah I mean
01:48:55
records are made to be broken and credit
01:48:57
to and great if people do it like that's
01:49:00
you know I won't feel bad if I go down
01:49:03
the list like [ __ ] that's awesome to see
01:49:06
guys yeah doing well how's it how's your
01:49:09
mental health been over the years oh
01:49:12
pretty I mean pretty good I like so how
01:49:14
old are you now what are you 40 48 yeah
01:49:16
cuz you don't yeah you don't get to I
01:49:18
mean it's a privilege to be the age we
01:49:19
are like you're 48 I'm 51 you don't get
01:49:22
to this age without going through some
01:49:23
sort of adversity eh yeah I mean I [ __ ]
01:49:26
we all know like you know with uh
01:49:29
marriages and wives and like there's not
01:49:31
that I've had wives but you know you
01:49:33
have your ups and downs I'm
01:49:35
pretty I don't know I'm pretty you're so
01:49:37
measured like pretty like that like
01:49:39
there are very much ups and downs but
01:49:43
and yeah like I'm sure Mandy will agree
01:49:46
with me like marriage is sometimes hard
01:49:47
and kids are hard and things happened
01:49:49
and
01:49:51
um yeah yeah but you sort of just find a
01:49:54
way I'm very I think I'm very loyal
01:49:58
and uh yeah and I see the best in people
01:50:04
and just don't yeah I
01:50:07
know not not saying that but people can
01:50:09
just go oh man this is too hard like I'm
01:50:11
done but I'm very much man like hang in
01:50:15
there and things will get better and
01:50:17
yeah but mental health I don't know like
01:50:21
I've yeah
01:50:23
yeah I don't know I mean I she's I know
01:50:25
I know like with Mandy and some of the
01:50:28
stuff that she's been through with her
01:50:29
family and brothers and you know that's
01:50:32
tough like I don't know if I could you
01:50:34
know some of that stuff is hard like
01:50:36
whether it's suicide or or brothers
01:50:39
brother ding of cancer like oh that's
01:50:41
right she's had had both those things
01:50:43
with two brother that stuff is you know
01:50:46
for people to get through that yeah like
01:50:49
and that was that was really hard like
01:50:51
going up to you know and there that's
01:50:53
one of the reasons why we I did Treasure
01:50:56
Island was for the brain brain tumor
01:50:58
support um charity was that was one of
01:51:01
the big reasons and yeah it's hard uh
01:51:05
yeah it's hard it was hard seeing him
01:51:07
sort of those last two or three months
01:51:10
yeah but my mental health yeah I mean
01:51:13
yeah I have I don't have massive Mass
01:51:16
highs or massive massive lows like I'm I
01:51:19
was just going to say that I've never
01:51:20
seen you like if it was a 1 to 10 scale
01:51:22
I think I've never seen you like lower
01:51:24
than a three or higher than an eight
01:51:27
like you're just always sort of in that
01:51:28
middle band which is probably the best
01:51:30
place to be yeah I always say my mental
01:51:31
health days are my golf days so if it's
01:51:34
raining and it's [ __ ] weather and
01:51:35
there's you know you wake up on a Friday
01:51:37
and there's uh and it's pissing out rain
01:51:38
I'm like no golf today I I need my
01:51:43
golf yeah yeah what you were saying
01:51:46
before just doubling back on um your
01:51:48
loyalty and stuff I mean it's impossible
01:51:50
to argue with that because it's just
01:51:51
it's facts I mean you in Pata umu which
01:51:53
is next sub over from piki so you could
01:51:56
be close to your family presumably
01:51:58
played your entire career and um the
01:52:00
Wellington sort of regions and um and on
01:52:03
a like on a on a personal level
01:52:07
um I I don't I don't want really want to
01:52:09
elaborate on this too much unless you
01:52:11
want to but um like about uh maybe 10 12
01:52:14
years ago like I asked you for a favor
01:52:16
and I I thought it was going to be like
01:52:17
a 50/50 favor at best and you um you and
01:52:21
Mandy discussed and you came back to me
01:52:22
the next day with a a yes straight away
01:52:24
and it was like one of the one of the
01:52:26
one of the the biggest favors I could
01:52:28
have ever asked of somebody um and the
01:52:30
fact that um that you know you you you
01:52:33
did it and everything that it entailed
01:52:35
um that's something that I'll never
01:52:37
forget like that level of loyalty like I
01:52:39
was going through a really tough um
01:52:40
tough time at that point and uh it was
01:52:42
the most um unselfish and loyal thing
01:52:45
and uh I I've you know just got a huge
01:52:48
Deb of gratitude so like if you ever
01:52:50
needed anything I'd be there for you
01:52:52
because you know yeah oh yeah it was
01:52:54
massive oh yeah I mean my um my circle
01:52:56
of friends is pretty pretty small and
01:52:58
you know probably like you and I we you
01:53:00
know I always say we're not like I'm not
01:53:03
this is anything against woman but we
01:53:05
don't need to talk every day to each
01:53:07
other sometimes you don't even need to
01:53:09
reply to my text like it could be 6
01:53:11
months a year or whatever or or not
01:53:14
might even be a word of year it might be
01:53:15
a little uh whatever you call that well
01:53:17
we live different ends of the country
01:53:18
but it's nice I picked you up from the
01:53:19
airport today and it's been bloody great
01:53:21
yeah so I mean I'm yeah I'm I'm very low
01:53:23
to to the to that to my group of mates
01:53:26
um yeah and it's very very small which
01:53:29
is probably as we get as you get older
01:53:30
you probably know like it's you can weed
01:53:33
people out that don't really add any
01:53:35
value to your life or they just make
01:53:37
things hard or whatever and just keep
01:53:39
the people that are in there that um
01:53:41
that you enjoy and that you that you
01:53:43
want in there yeah I think that's
01:53:46
probably a good place to end it is there
01:53:48
anything that you wanted to discuss that
01:53:49
we haven't brought up I know the answer
01:53:51
to that it's a it's a no way can you
01:53:55
believe is this your longest podcast
01:53:56
must be a you you haven't done many how
01:53:58
long is that uh 154 so how how long do
01:54:02
you cut that down to oh if you want
01:54:04
anything cut out I'll cut it out but
01:54:06
otherwise it will remain as is it's an
01:54:08
hour shorter than Justin
01:54:10
Marshall an hour
01:54:12
shorter [ __ ] well that's a [ __ ] I'm
01:54:14
happy with that he's fire right three
01:54:17
hours marshy all right hey Christian Ken
01:54:21
my friend thanks for on the podcast
01:54:24
finally yeah no was uh hour 50 so uh
01:54:29
it's what's an hour probably more than I
01:54:30
thought mate it's all good though
01:54:32
enjoyed it how have you how's it been
01:54:34
like you know you know the players how
01:54:36
on the the Sunday paper they'll give
01:54:38
each player like a a rating yeah how
01:54:41
would you rate the podcast
01:54:43
experience well you know you're you're
01:54:45
probably one of the only podcast I do
01:54:47
listen to Dom so you're right up there
01:54:50
player ratings seven and a half eight
01:54:52
out of 10 room for improvement shaky
01:54:55
start yeah I did get my coffee and I it
01:54:57
was meant to be hot but it was uh yeah
01:55:00
wasn't quite hot but that's probably
01:55:02
where you're losing a point and a half
01:55:03
maybe small complaint yeah all right hey
01:55:05
Kelly thanks mate appreciate it sweet is
