00:00:00
hey Dom here and thank you so much for
00:00:02
checking out this podcast with Tony
00:00:03
Johnson Sky Sports commentator and one
00:00:06
of New Zealand's greatest sports
00:00:07
broadcasters of all time just before we
00:00:09
get into it I just want to let you know
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00:00:52
Johnson on the domy podcast
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Tony Johnson welcome to my podcast
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cheers Dom great to be here but man
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you're um it feels like I know you like
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just seeing the the the that mug on TV
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over the last um 30 odd years yeah you
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don't see so much of it these days since
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the you know the gray here and the
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wrinkles kicked in but yeah I suppose
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the the voice is still there uh and I
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suppose doing what I do that there is a
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bit of a familiarity about it but you
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know I hope I'm still the same like I
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was you know when I I started all those
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years ago well you well when um doing
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like doing some research for this um
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first of all congratulations just
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recently become an old age pensioner oh
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yeah got the gold card yeah like two
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weeks ago H that's right yeah um so I'll
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go over to the supermarkets Tuesday I'll
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get my 5% off um yeah
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look it's crept up on me will you start
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getting a pinion now right like a few
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hundred bucks a week or well I'll start
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getting back all that some of that tax
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I've paid over the years but and I'll
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put it to good use it'll it'll be part
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of the retirement plan yeah well no I I
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I bring that up because um I was alarmed
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when I found out I I don't know if it's
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the if it's the The Cheeky teeth or The
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dimple um but you do have this like
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boyish charm and look to you which has
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never never sort of
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disappeared uh yeah I suppose that's a
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bit of a a family trait I think my uh my
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dad's older brother was a real hard case
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see my dad um was born in havlock where
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I was in the south island and he he and
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his brother's dad was probably the quiet
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one of the family but his older Uncle he
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was the one with the twinkle in his eye
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and apparently there's one in each
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generation and I might be it you got you
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got the twinkle Jane um also yeah
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another thing which I thought was
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commendable is um just the it's a fairly
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Cutthroat industry you're in and the
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longevity that you've exper you know
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you're still going
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strong yeah haven't Ted you out yeah
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well I suppose I'm sure there's some
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people that wish they had but no um I
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found a niche I suppose you know because
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my background was in
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radio and I always loved being in radio
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in fact I never had any great desire to
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go into television uh I worked um you
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know small radio stations around the
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country I worked in dened and at a time
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it was a great place to live because the
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music scene was buzzing down there the
00:03:24
sports scene was really good um and then
00:03:27
I I spent some time in London I had 4
00:03:29
years working in radio uh in a radio job
00:03:32
in London mainly as a foreign
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correspondent covering sport all around
00:03:36
all around Europe and I always thought
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you know I'd be quite happy to stay
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because I never really wanted the
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Limelight that comes with being in
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television I'd seen a couple of guys
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that I'd known in radio had gone to
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television and overnight had just become
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egomaniacs now this is quite a long time
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ago I hastened to add and I thought
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that's that's not really what I want to
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do I didn't like the fact that you'd be
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um your face would become known to the
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public I'm never all that comfortable
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with that and and so I probably would
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have stayed in radio but then when TV
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came along I just found it just a bit
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too compelling so I got got into TV well
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I 30 years ago when I first started I
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think I was doing a question of sport
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and I've kind of evolved into this this
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Niche job where um I think what I do
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there's still very very much a place for
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people who are season
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experienced and have learned you know
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the nuances of the job the techniques of
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the job which can take a long time for
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you to to develop those um so look I'm
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really lucky um and I'm hoping to keep
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it going for a few years yet oh good oh
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good for you no it's it's bloody great
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it's remarkable and um yeah uh we'll
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unpack the entire career stuff including
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the radio but yeah I TV news presented
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for a time in the
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yeah yeah that was TV3 yeah and I'd been
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working part time cuz in those days I
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was doing sports news for Paul homes on
00:05:08
News Talk ZB which was you know never a
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dull moment working with I still think
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the greatest broadcaster we've ever had
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in this country and then the offer
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opportunity came to do a little bit of
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part-time work they offered me an
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audition at tvnz and I said oh do I
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really want to do this and so I went
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along with this attitude where I'm not
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going to
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get all uptight about it because if I
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don't get this job they were just
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looking for some new presenters a bit of
00:05:35
new Talent as they say and so I bowled
00:05:38
in there and they got me to read the
00:05:39
auto queue and you know I've been
00:05:41
reading sports news on the radio for
00:05:42
years and that was wasn't too hard and
00:05:44
they got me an interview Paul McDonald
00:05:45
the great um kayak at canist and I I
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already interviewed him about 50 times
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so that was easy so I was really relaxed
00:05:52
and then I got to call back the next
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week and it was uh from John mccre who
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was the head of sort of programming at
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TVN Z and he said look um Julie that's
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Julie Christie she she'd love to give
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you the job but she wants people are
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going to crawl over broken glass to be
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in television and I'm going well I'm
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sorry I'm not really that guy I said if
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you if you if you give me the the job
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I'll do it to the best of my ability but
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I'm I'm not into stabbing people in the
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back and I'm not into keep people
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kissing buttons and and crawling over
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broken glass um but they gave me the job
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anyway it was a question of sport it was
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a mixed success what was that there was
00:06:27
a game show right yeah yeah yeah was it
00:06:30
was that sort of like um what what can
00:06:32
you remind me what it was was it like a
00:06:33
panel show well yeah it's like they've
00:06:35
got a game of two halves which they've
00:06:36
just um reconstituted on Sky which is
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was great to see Lura doing that but it
00:06:41
was based on the old BBC program and so
00:06:44
I was the guy with the Blazer on asking
00:06:45
the questions and we had Smithy and Jane
00:06:49
Kylie as the team captains and you'd
00:06:51
asked them all these questions and it
00:06:53
was a God I thought it would be a nice
00:06:55
comfortable way to start in TV but it
00:06:57
was an absolute baptism of fire because
00:07:00
first of all I had no idea about TV
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production there's all these people
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running around these cameras and these
00:07:07
scripts I couldn't understand what they
00:07:09
what they meant and you know directors
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and producers talking to you and your
00:07:13
and your um you know earpiece and
00:07:16
whatever you and the first night we were
00:07:18
there things went wrong and I realized
00:07:20
too how competitive Sports people are
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you know one of them uh she was a
00:07:25
champion New Zealand sportswoman accused
00:07:27
me of asking the other team's questions
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faster so that they could get more in in
00:07:31
the time and and and I'm think wow what
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is this and I walked out at the end of
00:07:36
it and I I had a m over from Australia
00:07:39
and I got home and I said to him if
00:07:41
that's television they can stick it
00:07:43
because it was a horrible experience but
00:07:45
they ironed all those things out I
00:07:47
learned my first valuable lesson that
00:07:48
the most important person in any
00:07:51
television gig is the production manager
00:07:54
if you got a good production manager
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pulling everything together around
00:07:57
behind the scenes then it's okay and
00:07:58
they made some changes and I did that
00:08:00
and then after that that's when I had
00:08:01
the opportunity to go to TV3 because
00:08:04
Eric Young was leaving to go to
00:08:06
Australia and I I took over that role
00:08:08
and I did that for four
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years and um yes so all the career stuff
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you've done just about every sort of um
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aspect of media imaginable but am I
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right in saying that this is your very
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first long form podcast
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yeah yeah I I couldn't find anything
00:08:24
about you online just yeah okay so I've
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done a few um rugby related ones as a
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sort of a guest yeah when you're talking
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about other people and analyzing games
00:08:34
but yeah I mean I I listen to them and I
00:08:36
and I watch them and during co uh we did
00:08:40
a I thought it was a great thing at Sky
00:08:42
because we had no live sport we started
00:08:46
getting into these they call them they
00:08:48
they called it a pod I'm not sure
00:08:49
whether it was really a podcast but you
00:08:51
could pick anyone that you wanted to and
00:08:54
do an interview with them and I loved it
00:08:57
because I've always been frustrated by
00:08:59
the fact that You' do an interview with
00:09:00
someone and they'd use 15 or 20 seconds
00:09:02
of it or you know chop it up and put a
00:09:05
couple of bits of it into a news story
00:09:06
on TV and so I'm sitting down with Susan
00:09:09
Devo who's an old mate of mine we you
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know go way back her and her husband
00:09:12
John have known them for years and we
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just sat down and chewed the fat and she
00:09:16
talked about all sorts of great things
00:09:19
and I did one with John Wright who was
00:09:20
you know one of my favorite cricketers
00:09:22
and and I did another one with HH Bond
00:09:26
Nick Evans over and I love doing those
00:09:29
but I yeah I'm not sort of quite sure
00:09:31
how it works I'm how do you get your own
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podcast um so yeah but but it's it's
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very nice of you to ask me to be on
00:09:39
yours D I've seen them and and enjoyed
00:09:41
them oh thanks TJ so this is the first
00:09:44
time that that you've been the guest
00:09:46
yeah wow it's an honor yeah I've been a
00:09:48
like I've been part of a like a three or
00:09:51
four-way panel on a couple of rugby ones
00:09:54
but not to talk about well not just
00:09:56
talking about yourself rather than like
00:09:58
analyzing
00:10:00
what the are doing wrong under
00:10:02
Raz yeah oh by the way yeah what is what
00:10:06
what is The Spill the tea about the Leon
00:10:08
McDonald thing that happened um my
00:10:11
understanding was that I think um there
00:10:13
might have been just a it was about who
00:10:17
filled what role to to me I felt at the
00:10:21
time that you know they're taking a risk
00:10:22
there's a lot of voices here and who was
00:10:25
where in the pecking order and maybe
00:10:27
what he thought he was going to be doing
00:10:30
he wasn't quite doing someone else was
00:10:33
the good thing was that it it came out
00:10:35
pretty quickly I I'm was sort of kind of
00:10:37
surprised when you the more you hear
00:10:39
about it that it even happened in the
00:10:41
first place because I think um you know
00:10:44
he'd been assistant to Razer at the
00:10:47
Crusaders and then after a year had um
00:10:49
gone back to blenham saying he wanted to
00:10:52
spend more time with his family then
00:10:53
came to Orland to do the Blues so maybe
00:10:56
uh there was a a bit of a risk in the
00:10:59
first place what it has done it's
00:11:00
reduced the number of
00:11:02
voices uh and it's just going to be
00:11:04
interesting to see how it evolves over
00:11:06
the I think the next few months uh it's
00:11:08
going to be really tough I think we've
00:11:11
seen enough to think that you know if we
00:11:15
can rebuild our depth we're still going
00:11:17
to be a force in the game a lot of
00:11:19
people are saying New Zealand Rugby the
00:11:20
aura is gone and that you know on the
00:11:22
slide I don't I don't see it that way I
00:11:24
think we still produce lots of great
00:11:25
talent we've just got to be really
00:11:27
careful about keeping in the country and
00:11:30
and how we develop it and and we've got
00:11:32
the right people calling the
00:11:34
shots and yeah what about Razer what
00:11:38
what what do we know about him all all
00:11:39
we've seen the last six years when he's
00:11:41
um been the the head of the Crusaders
00:11:42
which is like a dynasty it's a
00:11:44
phenomenal record he seems like this
00:11:46
chill Surfer guy U maybe out on a a
00:11:49
skateboard from time to time um I I
00:11:52
suppose you know you don't get in that
00:11:54
position um unless you've got the
00:11:56
ability to make some hard decisions when
00:11:58
required yeah I mean he he was part of a
00:12:00
great machine and that's the thing about
00:12:03
the Crusaders is that they've always had
00:12:05
this amazing environment in which they
00:12:08
had success but they also had this
00:12:10
environment in which young people could
00:12:12
Excel and they looked after them every
00:12:15
aspect of them and that includes what
00:12:18
they do off the field as well and I can
00:12:20
remember you know Steve Hansen telling
00:12:22
me about a a guide that they had down
00:12:24
there and I won't I won't say who but
00:12:26
he'd come down and and uh they were
00:12:29
finding out that he'd go to training and
00:12:30
then he'd go to mackers and he'd lie on
00:12:31
the couch all afternoon and then he'd go
00:12:33
to mackers again and then he'd go to
00:12:34
training the next morning and and Steve
00:12:36
Hansen said to him he gave him a diary
00:12:38
and said look you uh find something um
00:12:41
meaningful to do with your time or I'll
00:12:42
find it for you and that's the sort of
00:12:44
thing you know that they were all about
00:12:46
and so there was always this great setup
00:12:49
there and he came into it and you know
00:12:51
the the players liked he had good buying
00:12:53
from everyone but he also had great
00:12:55
players there and when you've got guys
00:12:57
like you know Sam lock um Richie moong
00:13:01
um Barrett you know guys like that
00:13:04
you've got a lot of leadership in the
00:13:05
team um it and and I suppose it's you
00:13:09
know no real International experience
00:13:13
but a bit of magic there that people saw
00:13:16
and so you know it's a it's a learning
00:13:19
experience for him as much as everyone
00:13:20
else but it's still really early days
00:13:24
and and I think we're comparing
00:13:25
ourselves at the moment the spring box
00:13:26
are probably the strongest in my opinion
00:13:29
and I've been following this game for a
00:13:30
long time I don't think the spring box
00:13:32
have ever been as strong as they are now
00:13:35
in terms of the depth of their strength
00:13:37
they've got great players in their front
00:13:39
line but they've also got a a really big
00:13:42
number of of terrific players and the
00:13:46
fact that we lose two test to them in
00:13:48
South Africa for what six and four
00:13:50
points or whatever it was and probably
00:13:52
should have one both of them says you
00:13:56
know we're not that far off
00:13:59
we're there or
00:14:00
thereabouts sh you love talking about
00:14:03
the stuff don't you well do you do you
00:14:05
um sometimes is it annoying leaving the
00:14:07
house like do you just get uh people
00:14:09
coming up to you that want to talk about
00:14:10
rugby well yeah I remember one night
00:14:13
it's going back a few years ago now but
00:14:15
my wife had been working for some people
00:14:17
who were in the wine making business and
00:14:19
we had them round for a barbecue and I
00:14:22
also invited my great mate wi gray who
00:14:24
was for years the um rugby writer at the
00:14:26
hers happens to be my daughter's
00:14:28
Godfather and this guy he was coming
00:14:31
around he was a wine maker and I could
00:14:33
tell straight off that he really wanted
00:14:35
to talk about rugby but wi and I were
00:14:37
like a couple of Velociraptors we were
00:14:39
just bombarding him with questions about
00:14:41
how do you make wine what's the
00:14:42
difference between this what's the
00:14:43
difference it does happen I I think
00:14:46
sometimes you feel like you go somewhere
00:14:49
and people think that's all you you've
00:14:51
got to talk about people want to talk
00:14:53
about it and if people want to talk
00:14:55
about it great but I'll happily talk
00:14:57
about other things as well but yeah you
00:14:59
get it you can see it at the gym people
00:15:00
come up and how we going to go on
00:15:02
Saturday and stuff that's fine that that
00:15:04
that that's part of it you know that's
00:15:05
just part of the deal you you're not
00:15:07
much of a drinker it would be it would
00:15:08
be a nightmare though going to a bar or
00:15:10
something wouldn't it people have got
00:15:11
like half a skin full or more yeah look
00:15:13
I I these days I'm I'm not um when I was
00:15:17
young I was terrific at it um and you
00:15:20
know used to go um out afterwards but
00:15:24
yeah people people can get a bit niggly
00:15:27
and that sort of just add alcohol M and
00:15:29
you know what happens um and I think as
00:15:33
the years have gone on I mean I'm lucky
00:15:34
where I live we've got a great Tavern
00:15:36
locally and I go down there and I know
00:15:37
people there and it's just it's it's not
00:15:39
like that at all but my days are going
00:15:41
to heaving bars of long gone B and I you
00:15:45
know they were fun while they lasted but
00:15:47
I don't I don't miss it now and you know
00:15:49
I find myself you know talking to people
00:15:51
and and you know it's just about the
00:15:53
environment in which you're talking to
00:15:55
them and that as I say I'm quite happy
00:15:57
if he want to talk about it happy to to
00:16:00
do so cuz that's you know they love to
00:16:01
do it it proves that people are still
00:16:03
interested yeah sh there's a there's a
00:16:05
lot to there's a lot to get through but
00:16:06
we'll go right back to the beginning so
00:16:07
you're from um you're from pikon yeah
00:16:09
pikon in the 1950s or 60s I was born in
00:16:13
1959 59 yeah in havlock yeah yeah yeah
00:16:17
which is even smaller that's halfway
00:16:19
between Pon and and Nelson and I when
00:16:23
when I came out my dad always said to me
00:16:25
I had to get rushed off to hospital in
00:16:26
blenham because something had gone wrong
00:16:28
and and apparently dad said you opened
00:16:30
your mouth too soon and you've never
00:16:32
shut it since and that that was a bit of
00:16:34
a you know i' swallowed something or
00:16:36
what so but yeah my my dad's family um
00:16:40
they ran the mail boats out of havlock
00:16:42
they took all the the mail and groceries
00:16:44
and passengers and freight and stuff
00:16:46
like that out to all the farms and the
00:16:47
sounds mom was a teacher uh and then we
00:16:50
moved to Pik and dad became the ranger
00:16:53
in the the maritime Park when they set
00:16:54
it up there and so my early life was on
00:16:58
boats
00:16:59
you know dad always had a boat for his
00:17:01
work never owned one um but and it was
00:17:05
an absolutely fantastic place to grow up
00:17:08
but I also grew up in a great Community
00:17:10
um and I've got mates who when my dad
00:17:13
passed away a couple of years ago I
00:17:14
stood up to speak and as you know the
00:17:16
day we all dread when you but I looked
00:17:19
up and I saw in the room I just saw all
00:17:22
these people that I'd been at school
00:17:23
with that have been my friends for over
00:17:25
50 years and I feel very blessed to
00:17:27
growing up at that time in that in that
00:17:30
part of the country it's a really
00:17:32
special place the mbor sounds and when I
00:17:35
used to come back say from
00:17:37
England um i' i' I'd fly into Oakland
00:17:40
I'd fly down to Wellington but I'd
00:17:42
always take the ferry back to pikon
00:17:45
because I always felt when you go
00:17:46
through the entrance to Tory Channel it
00:17:47
was like going through the front gate I
00:17:49
wouldn't do it now because you probably
00:17:50
end up on the Rock somewhere floating up
00:17:53
the coast but yeah oh than God that's a
00:17:55
hell of a trip isn't it yeah like
00:17:57
whenever I get to Orland I see other
00:17:59
people with connecting flights to one of
00:18:00
the regions I'm like oh you poor bastard
00:18:02
3our inter Islander right just sit
00:18:05
outside in the sun breathing it in you
00:18:08
can't beat it yeah oh yeah you mentioned
00:18:10
you lost your dead earlier and we were
00:18:12
talking um just in the kitchen before we
00:18:13
came into the podcast room you you've
00:18:14
just recently seen your mom who's 89 um
00:18:17
I think that's that's good going a if
00:18:19
you can be at retirement age yourself
00:18:21
and you've still you're still got a
00:18:23
appearent going yeah Dad um passed away
00:18:25
from Bale cancer and unfortunately just
00:18:28
get onto it early enough and typical New
00:18:31
Zealand male you know suffer and silence
00:18:34
which is something you know we could
00:18:35
probably talk about a little bit later
00:18:36
on when we get onto the subject of you
00:18:38
know what I've had in the last few years
00:18:40
but um you know he wanted to make it to
00:18:43
90 I'm sure um there Fair bit of
00:18:46
longevity in the in the family um his
00:18:48
his his grandfather was actually an
00:18:50
American uh who'd come to New Zealand he
00:18:52
lived to a very old age and and that but
00:18:55
Mom's there and but again um cuz Mom was
00:18:58
a teacher she taught at the the local
00:19:00
Catholic school first in pikon when we
00:19:02
moved there and then she taught at waaa
00:19:04
Bay and it it just it's wonderful how
00:19:10
people who she used to teach you know
00:19:13
well they're all there you know she's
00:19:15
they'll take her to through to blenham
00:19:18
if she needs to go through or someone
00:19:19
will come in mower Lawns or help her in
00:19:21
the garden and that and you know I
00:19:24
wouldn't have grown up anywhere else and
00:19:26
and there are constant reminders of you
00:19:29
know just how how good that time was
00:19:31
with the way people have looked after my
00:19:33
mom and you know she's still you know
00:19:36
she was big on Sport and she still
00:19:38
watches everything she watches the netol
00:19:41
and she watches the rugby she can't
00:19:43
sometimes battles away around all the
00:19:45
different channels and the the planner
00:19:46
and all that sort of thing but you know
00:19:48
what time does the netb deer start it's
00:19:50
not in the it's not in the tv guid g on
00:19:52
yeah you know that sort of thing but no
00:19:54
no she's she's fantastic um and and like
00:19:58
a lot of women of her age very
00:19:59
resilient that you deal with this
00:20:02
terrible
00:20:03
loss but you find way you you you keep
00:20:07
going yeah what other option do you have
00:20:10
yeah yeah well exactly yeah so yes so
00:20:13
you're growing up in in um havlock yeah
00:20:16
um and then by all accounts you're
00:20:17
pretty good at sport you really love
00:20:19
your rugby yeah um I I did all right um
00:20:22
the the sport that I probably was um
00:20:26
best at was
00:20:27
cricket and
00:20:29
you know I played at school and then I
00:20:31
played I when I was still at school I
00:20:33
started played Premier grade Cricket um
00:20:36
with some pretty hard case guys you know
00:20:39
guys who worked in on the railways or
00:20:41
worked on the the docks or whatever and
00:20:43
picked in and and so they played the
00:20:45
game hard but they gave me a chance and
00:20:48
I I I cherish those I just just used to
00:20:51
love the Saturday afternoons going to BL
00:20:53
played rugby all the way through school
00:20:55
um I went I was talking about it with my
00:20:59
mates at the weekend cuz I caught up
00:21:01
with a couple of them so we went to fij
00:21:03
our first 15 in
00:21:06
1975 back in those days the thing was um
00:21:11
dutyfree shopping in Fiji you could buy
00:21:13
a watch a lot cheaper than you could in
00:21:14
New Zealand or a ghetto blaster sort of
00:21:16
thing and me and my mates we bought
00:21:17
these early model ghetto blasters and
00:21:20
then we had nothing left to spend on our
00:21:22
food and so we used to you know you get
00:21:25
in with your roomies cuz they're too
00:21:26
expensive to eat in the hotel we stayed
00:21:28
in so someone to buy a loaf of bread
00:21:29
someone to buy tenis sardines and I was
00:21:31
rooming with our captain he comes back
00:21:33
from the shop in Singa near singer
00:21:35
Paradise Point Place Called got a
00:21:37
chicken and going wellow that's you know
00:21:39
what are you going to do with that cuz
00:21:40
it's dead it's got no feathers on it but
00:21:42
it hasn't been
00:21:43
cooked and so how you going to cook that
00:21:45
he goes well we're going to have it for
00:21:46
dinner he goes well we got no stove
00:21:47
there's no oven there so he stuffed it
00:21:50
in the electric
00:21:52
jug and boiled it for a couple of hours
00:21:55
and and I remember when I told my mom we
00:21:57
got home she just had had kittens and
00:21:59
then she thought well it's very
00:22:00
resourceful of you but I'd hate to be
00:22:02
the next person to have a cup of tea out
00:22:04
that you imagine the first cup of tea
00:22:06
after J yeah yeah um so what happened
00:22:10
when you're 19 so you're out running one
00:22:12
day oh yeah yeah so um i' started having
00:22:16
a bit of problem and I realized now that
00:22:19
I probably had a bit of a stress
00:22:20
fracture in my back but i' I'd always
00:22:23
loved running and I'd you know I'd done
00:22:26
rugby and I'd done cricket and Rowing
00:22:27
and whatever you and then I played a
00:22:30
game of Prem reserves and I went out for
00:22:31
a run and just everything sort of just
00:22:33
felt like something wasn't working right
00:22:36
and um I walked
00:22:39
home
00:22:41
and I got transferred away after that
00:22:44
and so I didn't play rugby again after
00:22:47
that and then I started developing
00:22:50
issues with the strength in my leg and
00:22:52
next thing I'm in denen and my boss is
00:22:54
going you need you you're starting to
00:22:57
develop a a limp and you you need to get
00:22:59
that checked out and next thing I'm in
00:23:01
hospital and they thought I had a very
00:23:04
nasty disease of the nervous system and
00:23:07
um that was
00:23:09
frightening uh yeah I was only 19 20
00:23:11
years of of age by the time that that
00:23:13
happened and there' had been a slow
00:23:14
process and so you know I'm still here
00:23:17
if I if ID had what they thought I had I
00:23:19
would have died you know within a few
00:23:21
years um so I always felt like I dodged
00:23:23
a bullet at that early age it was it was
00:23:26
scary
00:23:29
um but it made me think you know you you
00:23:34
only got one shot at this and I vowed
00:23:37
that if I came through it that I would
00:23:39
try and make the most of every day and
00:23:40
that I would travel the world and have
00:23:42
great experiences and you know um it was
00:23:46
you know and
00:23:48
and it doesn't get any less I mean
00:23:50
obviously when I was confronted with
00:23:51
cancer a few years ago um it doesn't get
00:23:54
any less worrying but at least I sort of
00:23:57
had some idea about what what it was
00:23:59
like to be confronted with it yeah yeah
00:24:01
cuz I noticed this is the first time
00:24:03
we've meted and I've read online that
00:24:04
you had this thing when you 19 and you
00:24:06
walk with a limp um it I I was surprised
00:24:09
at the limp oh yeah
00:24:11
yeah healthwise you're fine but this is
00:24:14
just like a hangover from this thing in
00:24:15
the it's I guess it's slowly gotten
00:24:18
worse over the years and because you
00:24:20
don't if you don't use your muscles
00:24:22
properly then it um then it compounds
00:24:25
itself and I mean what it's made me it's
00:24:27
made me into a a bit of a campaigner
00:24:30
because you know at the time at this
00:24:34
time you know everyone's talking about
00:24:35
why we haven't got crowds at you know
00:24:38
watching the rugby and the cricket or
00:24:40
whatever mainly part of the reason that
00:24:42
it's just too easy to watch it at home
00:24:43
on the TV but we don't really provide
00:24:47
great facilities for sports fans in this
00:24:49
country we've fallen way behind a lot of
00:24:51
the other developed countries around the
00:24:53
world in terms of spectator comfort and
00:24:55
in particular access and when they put
00:24:58
in you know a new stand say at Eden Park
00:25:01
they put in the new northand no
00:25:02
handrails so anyone who's got a an
00:25:05
accessit ability problem has difficulty
00:25:08
with a flight of stairs they're not
00:25:09
going to go because they're not going to
00:25:10
be able to make it up to the you know to
00:25:12
their seat and so it's made me a bit of
00:25:15
a you know campaigner on on in that
00:25:18
regard you know we've gotten better but
00:25:20
we could still do it a hell of a lot
00:25:21
better and it did you know again that's
00:25:24
why I'm actually a bit of a I like the
00:25:26
idea of a new stadium in or
00:25:28
but if you're going to do it do it
00:25:30
properly yeah it's got to be on the
00:25:32
waterfront hey well I think I think it'
00:25:34
be great you know look I've got it's
00:25:37
awkward because I've been fortunate
00:25:38
enough to be at Eden Park on some of the
00:25:40
great days you know and and I was there
00:25:43
when you know the calling it on radio
00:25:46
when orland's great ramfield Shield um
00:25:48
era came to an end um you know I did the
00:25:50
World Cup semi-final there in 2011 and I
00:25:52
was there for the for the final and I've
00:25:55
seen so New Zealand winning cricket
00:25:57
matches there and I something about it
00:25:59
it's magical and I love it but is it
00:26:01
really what we you know it's it's in a
00:26:04
um residential area it's hard to get in
00:26:06
out there's so many conditions about its
00:26:09
use that you know maybe it would be
00:26:12
really good for the city good for the to
00:26:15
to do something bold and new with a roof
00:26:18
a retractable roof so that no one got
00:26:20
wet easy to get to you know right in the
00:26:24
The Heart of the City and and hopefully
00:26:26
just help to to make the heart of
00:26:29
Oakland great again make make Oakland
00:26:31
great again that's let's get some red
00:26:34
hat let's make a red cap
00:26:36
yeah God you go to Eden Park and it's as
00:26:39
soon as the the game whatever you're
00:26:41
watching finishes there's like security
00:26:43
guards with red badge jackets AR trying
00:26:45
to ush you out of there it's like
00:26:46
there's a fire drill or something yeah
00:26:48
and I got a bit of a problem with that
00:26:49
Dom and of course back in the day the
00:26:52
Radio Days in particular that's when I
00:26:54
started working with John Drake and and
00:26:58
you know we' we'd finish up the game and
00:27:00
he'd go R come on Tonto he always us to
00:27:03
call me Tonto and we'd go out to the car
00:27:05
park and there'd be a boot party
00:27:06
somewhere and you'd go there and you you
00:27:08
know you'd have a few it was really
00:27:09
social really convivial but then over
00:27:12
the years the you know the residents
00:27:15
started resisting this more and more
00:27:17
took a lot of the the fun out of it you
00:27:20
had to clear out um and I always it
00:27:23
always sort of irks me that people who
00:27:26
choose to buy a house near the biggest
00:27:29
sports
00:27:30
arena in New Zealand should somehow
00:27:33
automatically have the right to dictate
00:27:35
the terms of its use I that doesn't I
00:27:37
can't figure that out oh you're 100%
00:27:39
right it's like anyone that but that
00:27:41
buys a house next to Western Springs
00:27:43
then [ __ ] about the speedway
00:27:44
Speedway's been there since like 1950
00:27:46
tell me about I used to cover it when I
00:27:48
first came here to ockland and I was
00:27:51
working at what was then
00:27:53
1zb and that was one of my jobs I used
00:27:55
to go out to the speedway and they had
00:27:57
50,000 people there it was
00:27:59
amazing watching you know sleepy trip
00:28:02
and um Ted Tracy and and Barry
00:28:05
Butterworth and those guys it was an
00:28:07
awesome Scene It was one of the best
00:28:09
wasn't a secret but it was like a lot of
00:28:11
people just didn't realize how big that
00:28:13
was but yeah that same thing same thing
00:28:15
happened there um and you know it and
00:28:20
you know at the weekend down in Blam at
00:28:22
lands down Park which is my old stamping
00:28:24
ground played a lot of games there seen
00:28:25
a lot of games there and there wasn't a
00:28:28
traffic cone in sight the 12 and under
00:28:31
got in for free they all ran out onto
00:28:34
the field at the end of the game some of
00:28:36
the security guys were going hang on a
00:28:37
moment the what the hell so the kids
00:28:39
were out there you know sort of patting
00:28:41
their favorite player on the back
00:28:43
getting an
00:28:44
autograph um and then you come out
00:28:46
there's people parked up on the grass
00:28:48
verges and what have you no one's Towing
00:28:50
them away it was it was sort of a
00:28:53
welcoming bit of a throwback really but
00:28:55
it was just and I say not not a traffic
00:28:58
cone in sight
00:28:59
whereas when North Harbor decided to
00:29:02
take the battle of the bridge against
00:29:04
Orland last year to Ona great idea
00:29:07
probably save a bit of money not having
00:29:09
it at a big Stadium the traffic plan
00:29:11
that they had to adhere to meant that
00:29:13
any money that they bought in from the
00:29:15
gate went on that it was
00:29:17
ridiculous oh it is it's Madness um oh
00:29:21
so yeah we got onto this little tangent
00:29:23
by you initially talking about uh your
00:29:27
yeah your limp accessibility um yeah so
00:29:30
when when that happened you had to sort
00:29:31
of like give up playing sport um no not
00:29:34
not straight away I I you know rugby was
00:29:38
going to be difficult because it was
00:29:40
just I found it hard to run any the
00:29:43
distances that I needed to to get fit
00:29:44
but no I kept playing I kept playing
00:29:47
Cricket uh even when I was you know in
00:29:50
my mid 20s down in Den Eden uh I still
00:29:53
played bit of uh you know Cricket at the
00:29:55
week when sport allowed it um I played
00:29:57
golf for a long long time I I went
00:29:59
swimming and that gradually as the years
00:30:01
have gone by you know I've had to sort
00:30:02
of give them up one by one but it's just
00:30:04
been part of my journey really I don't I
00:30:05
don't have any there's no point in being
00:30:08
better and twisted about it um but I
00:30:10
still go to the gym and I sit on the
00:30:12
bike for an hour and I you know I like
00:30:13
going for you know going for walks and
00:30:15
stuff so you know it's just it's just
00:30:17
part of who I am just adapt and live
00:30:20
with it yeah exactly and you do you
00:30:21
evolve you know yeah by the way I've
00:30:24
noticed you've um I think it's twice so
00:30:26
far in the last um half an you've
00:30:28
mentioned the ren Philly Shield I've
00:30:29
heard that you've got I don't know some
00:30:32
might say it's awesome I think it's a
00:30:33
Philly lame paty track you you can name
00:30:35
the mber from 1973 yeah yeah Kenya oh
00:30:39
that was just a a bit of a joke that
00:30:41
started out you want me too okay
00:30:43
Thompson Ford Davey marel hodgers Godard
00:30:45
ma southernland DWI Neil Cox
00:30:48
southernland Huntley Forest Joseph yeah
00:30:50
easy that's 51 years ago yeah I know but
00:30:52
it was you're right it just became a
00:30:54
thing and Paul Holmes challenged me to
00:30:56
do it once on the race radio and I did
00:30:59
and then hawksby challenged me John
00:31:01
hawksby um who you know is another guy I
00:31:03
was so privileged to work with that guy
00:31:06
most
00:31:07
professional you know TV3 was always a
00:31:09
struggle every single day there would be
00:31:12
two or three of you trying to Cobble
00:31:14
together the sports news and state
00:31:15
television to have 11 or 12 or whatever
00:31:18
you know you'd you no matter how hard it
00:31:20
been you'd walk into that studio with
00:31:22
John hawksby and you'd feel bulletproof
00:31:24
but he did he challenged me on
00:31:27
television one night to do it and it
00:31:29
yeah easy but um I'm glad I can still do
00:31:32
it it proves there something still
00:31:34
working yeah the memory is great it's
00:31:36
outstanding well yeah it's a bit like
00:31:39
remembering the shoe size really yeah
00:31:42
are you um are you kind of like me and
00:31:44
they like I can remember the the
00:31:45
telephone the landline number we had
00:31:47
growing up but I can't remember God I
00:31:50
can't I can't remember really important
00:31:52
things from the last couple car keys
00:31:55
yeah oh that's a joke in our house like
00:31:57
I can't find my wallet my wife just
00:31:59
rolls her eyes and go here we go again
00:32:01
yeah no I think that's just something as
00:32:03
you get older yeah but
00:32:06
um yeah I mean the memories I have of
00:32:10
growing up you know they're such good
00:32:11
ones you want to you want to keep them
00:32:13
yeah for sure for sure yeah I forgot you
00:32:15
worked with Haws be I think there like
00:32:17
um funnily enough they've all got H
00:32:19
names uh like probably the four biggest
00:32:21
new broadcasters ever right homes HBY
00:32:24
hosang and Henry I'd say yeah yeah um
00:32:27
maybe had a dupy alen in there as well
00:32:30
she's not bad either yeah I mean there'
00:32:32
been there've been others as well I
00:32:34
Sharon Crosby you know was bit of a a
00:32:36
Pioneer but um yeah and and they're all
00:32:40
I've only worked a little bit with Mike
00:32:43
hosking um but certainly homes and
00:32:46
hawksby and Paul you know working on his
00:32:49
breakfast show I mean I hate I mean you
00:32:51
know what this is like mate when the
00:32:53
alarm what time did your alarm go off
00:32:54
4:00 although in the last um the last 5
00:32:57
years it was getting like 5 minutes
00:32:59
later every year yeah yeah i i s have
00:33:01
got it down to like you 5 to five in the
00:33:03
last year yeah awful hours yeah and I
00:33:07
was of the opinion especially working
00:33:08
both ends of the day that it was only
00:33:11
going to be a certain amount of time
00:33:13
that I would allow myself to do that
00:33:15
because I I think it it wears you out
00:33:18
and so but I would get up at um I think
00:33:20
the alarm would go off at just before
00:33:22
5:00 and I'd be in there but once you
00:33:25
got in there it was exhilarating I Paul
00:33:28
you know we went he had obviously some
00:33:31
ups and downs and you kind of lived
00:33:34
every minute of it with them but he is
00:33:36
the most brilliant broadcas I've ever
00:33:38
worked with because he's so
00:33:40
quick but also Paul had empathy mhm he
00:33:43
would talk with people he didn't lecture
00:33:46
them he could solve problems but he was
00:33:49
also really really funny and some of
00:33:52
those things he used to do this thing
00:33:54
called world city it was outrageous what
00:33:56
he wouldd get away with and he did up
00:33:58
until the kofan thing and that was one
00:34:00
of those days you're thinking well
00:34:01
what's going on here um but uh yeah it
00:34:05
was great we used to have this thing at
00:34:08
620 and it started off I was supposed to
00:34:11
be introducing a sports item and he
00:34:13
didn't like that very much CU it was
00:34:15
often a pre-recorded thing or something
00:34:17
so let's just talk about Sport and it
00:34:20
evolved to the point where some mornings
00:34:21
we' talk about anything but Sport and it
00:34:23
was quite often it was quite irreverent
00:34:26
sometimes it was quite funny and and it
00:34:29
you know I was hearing that people were
00:34:32
it was a it became a listening point
00:34:33
with people that people would you know
00:34:36
make a point of listening to it before
00:34:37
they got out of bed in the morning and
00:34:39
and that that was that was a lot of fun
00:34:42
um but in in the end um I met my wife
00:34:47
Sarah in uh
00:34:51
2001 and I I'll admit that by the end of
00:34:53
a week of earlies I could get a bit
00:34:55
grumpy and I thought I just found this
00:34:58
woman that I really really wanted to
00:35:00
spend the rest of my life with and I
00:35:02
thought um I don't want her knowing you
00:35:05
know Friday after a week of early's Tony
00:35:07
and so I I I I gave it away after that
00:35:10
and just concentrated on the sky job
00:35:12
yeah I found that as well F Friday
00:35:14
afternoons I was no good to anybody I
00:35:15
was like a zombie and you
00:35:17
know I think the worst thing about it
00:35:20
too was that you'd think oh Saturday i'
00:35:21
got to sleep in but you'd what you'd be
00:35:23
awake at 7:00 or half 6 in the morning
00:35:26
because you've slept for an hour a half
00:35:28
more than you normally do you know I
00:35:30
yeah I I don't think the human body
00:35:32
really is built to be woken up by alarm
00:35:34
clocks yeah at that that hour of the
00:35:36
morning well that's what um that is one
00:35:38
thing that I have mad respect with Mike
00:35:40
hosking for like his dedication to the
00:35:42
craft yeah um I don't know what time is
00:35:45
out of bed maybe 2:00 and you know it'd
00:35:48
be very easy to get to the point where
00:35:49
you're no longer driven by the money um
00:35:51
that you're interest in the job wains
00:35:52
but his professionalism is second to
00:35:54
none yeah I'm sure the money's good um
00:35:56
it certainly was you know with Paul and
00:35:58
those guys but I I don't begrudge them
00:36:00
that they they deserve it but no you
00:36:02
you've got to be special and I think you
00:36:04
have to you have to manage your time you
00:36:06
have to make sure you have some turnoff
00:36:08
time but what the thing that used to get
00:36:09
me about Paul and I haven't worked with
00:36:12
Mike in in that sort I've done stuff on
00:36:14
his show I used to um do stuff on his
00:36:17
show but Paul would come in and he would
00:36:21
just sit down at his terminal and just
00:36:24
just crank out this these little
00:36:26
monologues that he would do
00:36:28
um and this world city as I say that was
00:36:31
that was my favorite B and I just
00:36:33
thought how do you do this but you're
00:36:34
dealing with a brilliant mind yeah so
00:36:37
this was 90 92 that you started at zba
00:36:40
as sports editor I my right no no well
00:36:42
hang on what so I was in dun Eden uh
00:36:46
early 80s and then I went off did a big
00:36:49
OE came back um I couldn't get a job
00:36:52
back in sports worked up in fer a for a
00:36:53
summer that was brilliant working on a
00:36:55
little radio station in the Bay of
00:36:56
islands mate that was uh was that a KC
00:36:58
or uh no what no kwc started while I was
00:37:01
there now it was called Bay radio and
00:37:03
the funny our trainee announcer was a
00:37:06
19-year-old by the name of Neil wer and
00:37:08
so he and I worked on this radio station
00:37:11
up in the Bay of islands and then I I
00:37:12
came back to Oakland um and yeah uh and
00:37:16
then I went off and worked in London
00:37:18
which was a you know I I was getting a
00:37:21
little bit frustrated that doors weren't
00:37:24
opening I wanted to be more of a
00:37:25
commentator and the commentary jobs were
00:37:27
all kind of taken up and uh and so I
00:37:30
thought someone had the idea of setting
00:37:32
up in London and Radio New Zealand as it
00:37:35
was at the time said you know you do it
00:37:37
we'll pay you they um and and so my my
00:37:40
girlfriend at the time and I we went off
00:37:42
over there she found work and radio and
00:37:44
I I had four years over there and I did
00:37:46
some amazing experience you know
00:37:48
covering sport in places like Poland and
00:37:51
Bulgaria going to the world canoeing
00:37:53
Champs or the all whites I went to
00:37:56
Israel and they did a game there which
00:37:58
was just one of the most amazing
00:38:00
experiences I've ever had and four years
00:38:03
of that and I knew that it wasn't going
00:38:05
to last because Radio New Zealand was
00:38:07
overspending and I was probably one of
00:38:09
the reasons why so I came back after
00:38:11
that that's when I came back to to News
00:38:12
Talk ZB so
00:38:14
so um 1zb was like a music station yeah
00:38:18
um then they pivoted became a talk
00:38:20
station which is what what it is today
00:38:21
yeah that happened in the ' 80s yeah so
00:38:24
and home homes got to number one within
00:38:27
a within a couple of years I think they
00:38:28
went sort of worst to first so you went
00:38:30
there just as things had got good no i'
00:38:33
i' no i' I'd been there I'd come down
00:38:35
here in in ' 85 and MB Smith was still
00:38:38
doing the breakfast show with his usual
00:38:40
mix a bit of everything but that and
00:38:43
that's what I loved about there was such
00:38:44
a turbulent time in radio and being a a
00:38:47
radio nut it was fascinating haki was
00:38:49
getting really big um Blacky yeah and
00:38:53
then of course you had the FM thing came
00:38:55
in and and staler and and Kennedy top
00:38:58
marks on 89 toks yeah and and they they
00:39:00
just tipped the whole thing on its head
00:39:03
so um yeah and and so zby made the mve
00:39:07
left because he wasn't happy with the
00:39:09
music that he was having to play I think
00:39:10
that was a big part of it and so he went
00:39:12
off to to
00:39:13
radioi and they decided they took the
00:39:16
plunge and they went to this news talk
00:39:18
ZB format and people hated
00:39:21
it homes came just charging into the
00:39:25
place like a a a tornado
00:39:28
um but it just for a long time it didn't
00:39:29
work he couldn't get a um a producer
00:39:32
that they they could get on the same it
00:39:34
wasn't until Phil Armstrong came along
00:39:35
that after about six producers they they
00:39:38
found the right mix but people the whole
00:39:41
idea of not all talk no music after it's
00:39:46
a bit like say people have been eating
00:39:49
wheat picks for 25 years and suddenly
00:39:51
being told no no you have to eat Birch
00:39:53
am musley but I don't like Birch and
00:39:55
musley well that's what you would you
00:39:57
know it was such a change in in you know
00:40:01
people's lives what they and so they all
00:40:03
deserved and we got down to seven I
00:40:05
think it was
00:40:06
Blackie they printed these t-shirts that
00:40:09
said seven ZB because it had always been
00:40:12
one ZB cuz that's where we went to in
00:40:14
the
00:40:16
ratings and and you know the the natives
00:40:20
got restless you know we we didn't like
00:40:23
being part of a a radio station that was
00:40:25
getting its butt kicked no of course but
00:40:28
you know Brent Haron to his credit he
00:40:31
was the manager at the time he had a
00:40:33
vision and he had to put up with a lot
00:40:36
because you know in those days people
00:40:39
were able to express themselves in the
00:40:41
workplace probably a lot
00:40:42
more uh clearly and and yeah there's no
00:40:47
no people in culture Department back
00:40:49
there yeah yeah and and he wore quite a
00:40:51
lot but you know they stuck to their
00:40:53
guns and in the end obviously it it
00:40:56
became
00:40:58
the the biggest thing I suppose the most
00:41:00
powerful entity that we've ever had um
00:41:03
in in commercial radio in New Zealand
00:41:05
and so you look back and you think well
00:41:07
it was amazing to be part of it but did
00:41:09
I buy into
00:41:10
it always thought Paul was amazing but
00:41:14
the idea I'll have to admit there were
00:41:16
times I doubted that they' done the
00:41:17
right
00:41:18
thing what was he like to work with you
00:41:20
must did you have some um outstanding
00:41:22
arguments he was an interesting bunch of
00:41:24
guys yeah um I the thing love love about
00:41:28
homes is um love to drink love to smoke
00:41:32
um seem to I work out playh hard I
00:41:35
suppose that's the well yeah but when
00:41:37
when I first met him uh and first
00:41:39
started working with him yes to the dues
00:41:43
um and he could you know he'd find a way
00:41:46
to get out and have one while the ads
00:41:48
were on or whatever but no the drink he
00:41:50
he he he'd been off the drink for a long
00:41:53
time and I think we all admired that
00:41:56
about him
00:41:57
um because not easy particularly the
00:42:00
stress that he was under cuz he was
00:42:02
basically wearing the whole thing he was
00:42:05
this guy that had turned everyone's
00:42:07
favorite radio station into something
00:42:09
else and so he he copped a lot um and he
00:42:14
managed to yeah it wasn't until there
00:42:16
was a change in his personal
00:42:17
circumstances I think that that yeah he
00:42:20
he started to to drink again which was
00:42:22
it was a challenging time but you know I
00:42:25
will consider it one of probably I I've
00:42:28
worked with some great broadcasters and
00:42:30
Pete Montgomery is still one of my he's
00:42:32
one of my closest friends and he's been
00:42:33
a mentor and Bill Francis who was my
00:42:35
boss and I've worked with in niso you
00:42:37
know great broadcasters like that but
00:42:40
you know Paul Holmes absolutely the most
00:42:43
outstanding broadcaster I've ever worked
00:42:46
with and I just an absolute privilege to
00:42:48
have been part of it for the time that I
00:42:50
was before I realized I thought you know
00:42:54
I can't be doing this anymore this
00:42:55
getting up at 5:00 in the morning
00:42:57
did did he ever did you ever get one of
00:42:59
his trademark telling offs oh yeah for
00:43:01
sure yeah in fact look I I I'll be up
00:43:03
front with you Dom I he he got he was in
00:43:06
a ratty mood one day and I fired
00:43:08
something back at him and he said
00:43:09
something and I walked out and I thought
00:43:10
I'll bugger this and I went home and I
00:43:12
said to Barry Holland who was kind of in
00:43:14
charge of the the section that I was
00:43:15
working for and then another great
00:43:16
broadcast I said mate I'm going home
00:43:18
I'll be back probably on Friday and this
00:43:20
was Wednesday and I went home and I just
00:43:22
had a bit of a think about it for a
00:43:23
couple of days and then I thought you
00:43:26
know come on grow up it yeah he he it it
00:43:30
that was at a time where where I think
00:43:32
there was a lot of uphe going on in his
00:43:34
life and sometimes you you you probably
00:43:36
bore the brunt of it um but you know you
00:43:39
get you'd get back and he'd sort of come
00:43:40
over and were we all right yeah you were
00:43:43
all right Paul and you just get on with
00:43:46
it yeah and and you look back now um I
00:43:49
don't know if this is the upheaval
00:43:50
you're talking about but uh you know he
00:43:51
was having an extramarital affair and it
00:43:53
became like the biggest story there were
00:43:55
like Paparazzi camp trees outside house
00:43:59
yeah you you look back I mean it was
00:44:00
quarter of a century ago but you know
00:44:03
like who gives a [ __ ] about what's
00:44:04
happening in his private life well they
00:44:06
did then because because he was so big
00:44:09
and it was and of course anymore having
00:44:11
come from she had a public profile
00:44:13
herself and everyone thought it was you
00:44:16
know it was a lovely marriage and and
00:44:18
what have you and so it was a shock
00:44:19
right right throughout the industry um
00:44:21
when that happened but yeah um it was it
00:44:26
made it challenging for everyone and
00:44:28
look you know I got to say when he when
00:44:30
he wrote his
00:44:31
book he acknowledged the fact that
00:44:34
people he didn't necessarily mentioned
00:44:35
all the the names but he just
00:44:38
acknowledged his workmates who had sort
00:44:41
of kind of been there with him
00:44:44
throughout this this turbulent period
00:44:47
and um you know I was able to even after
00:44:51
I left they they had a slot for me on
00:44:52
Monday mornings
00:44:54
and you know I remained you you on good
00:44:57
terms with him right till the end and it
00:45:00
was you know it was very sad when he
00:45:02
went um but boy what a yeah it was a
00:45:04
journey what a life what a life and and
00:45:06
and the fact that you did that um high
00:45:08
high pressure high stress high octane
00:45:10
breakfast show for so many years as well
00:45:11
as the 7 p.m. yeah evening show um are
00:45:14
you kidding me like it's yeah it's
00:45:17
insane well I was living in London when
00:45:18
that started and I can remember I used
00:45:20
to do a spot for him sometimes during
00:45:22
the week if some you know if was at
00:45:23
Wimbledon he used to love coming to
00:45:25
Wimbledon talking about that or if some
00:45:28
my girlfriend at the time Leanne she was
00:45:30
a a journalist and she did stuff for him
00:45:32
but if she couldn't I'd I'd fill in and
00:45:34
do it and I remember talking to him just
00:45:37
after the Dennis Connor thing he goes
00:45:39
yes got myself into a bit of trouble
00:45:41
here my boy yeah you know and and you
00:45:44
know because obviously that had blown up
00:45:46
but boy that was just his that was just
00:45:48
signaling his arrival yeah I mean yeah
00:45:51
you look back and it's it's iconic but
00:45:52
um I'm sure it wasn't pleasant being
00:45:54
Paul Holmes at the time with the
00:45:55
backlash but they do you yeah do you
00:45:58
think from your perspective as a
00:45:59
broadcaster that was kind of strategic
00:46:01
yeah absolutely oh totally totally I
00:46:03
think the whole thing was um you know
00:46:05
let's make a splash let's needle them
00:46:07
let's see if we can get them to blow up
00:46:09
cuz I you know I'll tell you a little
00:46:11
story again I'm going off on a tangent
00:46:13
here but 1995 the America's Cup and I
00:46:16
was at TV3 tvnz are all over the whole
00:46:19
thing and I get sent over to San Diego
00:46:22
to do the
00:46:24
last uh day of the America's Cup and
00:46:27
we're going to do the sports news from
00:46:28
over there and part of the you know deal
00:46:31
is we got to try and get an interview
00:46:33
with Dennis Connor and tvnz put the
00:46:36
shutters up because we weren't ACC
00:46:38
credited they wouldn't let us into the
00:46:39
press conference we'd got to you know we
00:46:41
managed to get Peter Blake and and
00:46:43
Russell Coots and what have you and we'd
00:46:45
done a few interviews with someone from
00:46:46
Murphy Brown and whatever it's had a
00:46:48
nice little package we needed to get
00:46:49
Dennis Connor and they said no you can't
00:46:51
go into the press conference um cuz tvnz
00:46:54
wouldn't let us in there so I had to
00:46:56
wait out the back door
00:46:57
door and um with a TV Camera sorry TV
00:47:02
crew I be pardon and hopefully they told
00:47:05
us Connor someone said Connor will go
00:47:06
out the back door and you'll get a
00:47:09
chance to grab him there and sure enough
00:47:11
he stood up at the press conference he
00:47:12
said all these lovely things about Team
00:47:14
New Zealand and everyone thought oh he's
00:47:15
a nice guy after all then he comes out
00:47:18
the back door and he just busts through
00:47:20
this door and I said I said oh excuse me
00:47:22
Dennis and he gave me a couple of
00:47:24
minutes which is all I need did for this
00:47:28
this bulletin turned around to walk off
00:47:30
and walked straight into a cameraman
00:47:31
from AP television who got right in his
00:47:34
face and so Dennis grabs the camera and
00:47:37
these two had history apparently starts
00:47:39
a wrestling match with this guy and
00:47:41
we're filming it all for our news so by
00:47:44
being not allowed into the press
00:47:45
conference we got this amazing footage
00:47:47
of Dennis Connor having a fight with a
00:47:49
cameraman it was
00:47:51
gold wow that is exceptional is it on
00:47:54
YouTube somewhere but well I don't know
00:47:55
whether it is but the thing is um and
00:47:58
and that was the whole thing about um
00:48:01
working at TV3 you know TV and Z owned
00:48:04
everything in those days they owned the
00:48:05
cricket they owned the rugby we weren't
00:48:07
allowed into this we weren't allowed
00:48:08
into that so you had and and Mark
00:48:10
Jennings who was the boss there and and
00:48:12
guys like Mike brocky they were
00:48:14
incredible those guys they'd be there at
00:48:15
8:00 in the morning till 8:00 at night
00:48:17
and you always tried and Tony cyprian
00:48:20
who was my boss in sports you always had
00:48:22
to to to work outside the box to to get
00:48:26
the angle to get the and and you often
00:48:28
came up with a better story as a
00:48:31
consequence sorry Dom I've taken that
00:48:32
whole thing off no no no no no no I I
00:48:35
love this I don't know about the
00:48:36
audience but I I love it I'm from a
00:48:38
private radio background in paliston
00:48:40
north and yeah like that won't mean much
00:48:42
to a lot of people but there was like
00:48:43
private radio or public radio private
00:48:45
radio you had to have like a roll your
00:48:47
sleeves up almost Street Fighter
00:48:49
mentality in a way yeah and and everyone
00:48:51
to the m d everyone knew oh there was
00:48:54
yeah there was a definite um it was a
00:48:57
bit of a superiority complex that went
00:48:59
on and it and it was it was the sort of
00:49:01
the rebellious guys and you know you
00:49:03
think mentioned Blacky or um um Barry
00:49:06
jenin I suppose but but again you know
00:49:09
staler and and um Ken Kennedy God yeah
00:49:13
they yeah but they were they were they
00:49:15
were yeah yeah so this was this
00:49:16
breakfast show on 89 FM called the top
00:49:19
marks um and they got to number one like
00:49:22
in a very very short period of time by
00:49:24
doing some amazingly Innovative stuff
00:49:26
but then capitulated like within a year
00:49:27
oh yeah but we all knew that it would um
00:49:30
you know we we were having bets we
00:49:31
thought 6 months because you had two
00:49:34
guys I mean that you know stal was a
00:49:36
very clever guy um and um Kennedy you
00:49:40
know you know quite been around quite a
00:49:42
while and together it was it was a
00:49:44
volatile combustible mix but for a while
00:49:47
it was brilliant and as a and they were
00:49:49
so um they just got in the face of all
00:49:52
the other radio stations with Mickey
00:49:54
taking and um sabotaging um people's
00:49:57
outside broadcasts and things like that
00:49:59
they stopped at absolutely nothing and
00:50:01
we all knew that it would blow up in the
00:50:03
end but it was yeah but it blew up so
00:50:07
quickly though like but they were on
00:50:09
crazy money at the time hundreds of
00:50:11
thousands of dollars and this is in like
00:50:12
the late ' 80s yeah yeah I I believe
00:50:14
there was a copious amounts of cocaine
00:50:16
involved as well but this might just be
00:50:17
a rumor there I I've heard those rumors
00:50:20
too but who knows yeah who knows um yeah
00:50:24
the former boss Ross Goodwin he he was
00:50:26
uh a consultant of mine when I was in
00:50:28
radio in pal North and I used to love
00:50:30
picking his brains with these old War
00:50:32
Stories stuff what about hawks yes so so
00:50:35
you he was the news anchor on 3 and you
00:50:37
were the sports guy Were You There When
00:50:39
that whole thing blew up and yeah it was
00:50:41
and I tried so hard to persuade him not
00:50:43
to
00:50:45
go remind us what happened there okay
00:50:48
so I think you know the format of TV3 I
00:50:52
thought our news was good and we just
00:50:54
used to be so frustrating that I think
00:50:56
and it was probably the 55 plus
00:50:58
demographics their TV sets were just
00:51:01
welded to TV 1 and we had the younger
00:51:04
market and I think we always felt that
00:51:08
if we just keep working away that those
00:51:10
younger people as they get older they'll
00:51:11
they'll stay with TV3 and the audience
00:51:13
will grow but they just decided they
00:51:15
wanted to to um try and take take a
00:51:18
chunk out of tvnz's dominance and so
00:51:21
they decided to do a dual presentation
00:51:24
because that's what tvnz were doing and
00:51:25
John didn't want that at all they got
00:51:28
Carol hfield came over from uh
00:51:32
tvnz I'm not even sure how much she
00:51:34
really wanted to do it but they just
00:51:36
made her this great offer and you tell
00:51:39
straight away that oh this you know this
00:51:41
didn't look good got an you know I don't
00:51:43
even think he was in on it John he
00:51:45
resisted it and then in the end you know
00:51:47
this is a guy who used to he was the
00:51:50
life and soul of the place uh he was the
00:51:53
big fish in a small pond he loved that
00:51:55
but but we we loved him and and he was
00:51:59
great to me I had a massive relationship
00:52:02
breakup which really affected me and no
00:52:04
one was was more uh IID say shoulder to
00:52:08
cry but every now he'd sort of say come
00:52:09
out we'll go out for dinner and have a
00:52:11
chat sort of thing he was just such a
00:52:12
great guy but you you realize that there
00:52:16
was an ego there too and suddenly
00:52:18
instead of walking around the office
00:52:20
bellowing Bob Dylan songs he's on I
00:52:22
didn't even know he had a mobile phone
00:52:24
suddenly he's on the mobile phone to the
00:52:26
lawyer and and you know in the end um he
00:52:30
he just he walked and then of course he
00:52:33
ended up at tvnz and that did not go
00:52:35
down well and it was bit of a sad end to
00:52:38
what was you know a great career um but
00:52:41
I I'll just be always be grateful again
00:52:43
for the fact that I was able to work
00:52:45
with them because as I say it was never
00:52:47
easy putting the sports news together
00:52:49
with the limited resources that we had
00:52:51
at
00:52:52
TV3 um but you walked in there with
00:52:54
hawksby and and it was just such a great
00:52:56
buzz in that studio it was it was really
00:52:59
fantastic yeah oh thanks for those kind
00:53:01
words um yeah I know um Duncan listens
00:53:04
to the podcast from time to time as does
00:53:06
Kate yeah um they message me so um I'm
00:53:09
sure they'll be they'll be stoked to
00:53:11
hear that well yeah yeah and and um I
00:53:14
I've sort of been in fact when Sarah and
00:53:17
I got married
00:53:20
um he said had always said to me if if
00:53:24
if it happens cuz i' had one sort of
00:53:27
shortlived and very unsuccessful attempt
00:53:30
at it but he said if if when you get
00:53:31
yourself back on your feet and you'll
00:53:32
find the right
00:53:34
person give me a ring cuz he was a mar
00:53:36
marriage celebrant and so he was the
00:53:39
marriage celebrant when we got married
00:53:41
oh how good yeah yeah that was that was
00:53:42
so cool so so was it at um oh so you
00:53:45
left TV3 went to TV1 is that is that
00:53:47
where there was like some public outcry
00:53:50
in backlash a $6 million redundancy yeah
00:53:52
yeah and um Neil Roberts I think had
00:53:56
offered off him I think it was Neil
00:53:57
Roberts had offered him they offered him
00:53:59
a huge amount of money to go there
00:54:02
and the staff didn't take too kindly to
00:54:05
it people in The Newsroom didn't take
00:54:07
too kindly to it because it meant
00:54:08
Richard long was pushed aside and they
00:54:11
went back to that combination of um John
00:54:14
and Judy Bailey that had been I think
00:54:15
they'd done a a regional show together
00:54:18
and I look I don't really know very much
00:54:19
about what went on there Dawn but I all
00:54:21
I know is that it wasn't happy at time
00:54:25
and I could see by the con's face as he
00:54:27
was reading it that this is not the same
00:54:29
guy um and you know eventually of course
00:54:32
he went out to W hickey Island and I was
00:54:35
you know whenever I see him I was say
00:54:36
how about you write a column about a
00:54:37
wine that people can actually afford but
00:54:40
you know he found that's a happy place
00:54:41
for me you know with his wine and what
00:54:43
have you yeah he's fantastic broadcast
00:54:46
to yeah just brilliant one of the best
00:54:50
wow [ __ ] you've been around all of it
00:54:51
haven't you yeah yeah we haven't even
00:54:53
got to the rugby stuff yet we will we
00:54:55
will get to the rugby stuff but um
00:54:57
yeah maybe maybe we spend a bit of time
00:54:59
now just poking around on the cancer
00:55:01
stuff yeah sure yeah yeah is it it's
00:55:03
five years now is it okay to talk about
00:55:05
this yeah it is um it's important to
00:55:07
talk about I it is and it's I guess one
00:55:10
of the reasons why you know I'm an
00:55:12
ambassador for the prostate cancer found
00:55:14
Foundation um part of me wanted to say
00:55:16
look just keep it to yourself but then I
00:55:19
thought you know if you can perhaps get
00:55:22
the message out there and helps one
00:55:24
person you you know so what happened
00:55:26
with was in 19 sorry
00:55:30
2019 yeah 2019 I was diagnosed I'd had a
00:55:34
red flag the year before I always used
00:55:37
to get a a blood test every year my GP
00:55:39
had sort of said you know once I got to
00:55:40
50 you need to get a blood test every
00:55:42
year and amongst the things you know
00:55:44
they look for your cholesterol your
00:55:45
blood count your liver function there's
00:55:47
a thing called
00:55:48
PSA and that's related to the prostate
00:55:52
if it starts to go up uh it could be an
00:55:56
infection it could be inflammation but
00:55:58
it's also good an early indicator of
00:55:59
prostate cancer so I got a bit of a red
00:56:02
flag in 2018 they did an MRI looked okay
00:56:05
they said we'll have another look at it
00:56:07
in a few months time they did went up
00:56:09
again that's when they did the biopsy
00:56:11
and that's when I got hit with the news
00:56:12
that I had prostate cancer um and I I
00:56:17
had surgery on April the 2nd 2019 and
00:56:22
it's come out five and a half years ago
00:56:24
so how how do you get the news okay
00:56:27
so um I went to a urologist Michael
00:56:32
Macky who is quite well known it's it's
00:56:35
amazing when you get diagnosed with
00:56:37
prostate cancer even if I was keeping it
00:56:39
fairly quiet you find out the number of
00:56:41
people that you know that have had of
00:56:43
course Paul had it Leon Smith had had it
00:56:46
Andrew Dickens um had had it um in fact
00:56:50
it's his brother that got me onto the
00:56:52
the foundation so many people um and and
00:56:56
yeah it's it's it's was a shock for sure
00:57:00
I was at lunch with a mate Blair lasson
00:57:04
former North Harbor all black he a good
00:57:07
mate and I was already reeling from one
00:57:09
shock because lamby had offered to pay
00:57:10
for
00:57:11
lunch and then the phone goes while he's
00:57:14
off getting a coffees or something and
00:57:16
and Michael and he said all we we've got
00:57:19
the results back from your biopsy we've
00:57:21
we've we've found some some cancer there
00:57:24
and I don't you know it's a blur the
00:57:26
rest of us hard to remember the
00:57:28
conversation but he did make it quite
00:57:29
clear that this was not something that
00:57:32
that they could sit back and keep an eye
00:57:34
on which is sometimes the case with
00:57:36
prostate cancer nor was it something
00:57:38
that they would deal with through
00:57:40
radiation that this had to come out and
00:57:42
it as well they did because by the time
00:57:45
they'd got it out you had I had to wait
00:57:46
six weeks because for the things to
00:57:50
settle down after the biopsy by the time
00:57:52
they got it out it was starting to get
00:57:53
pretty gnarly and he said look if we'd
00:57:54
left this thing under detected for
00:57:56
another year it would have been a
00:57:58
completely different story and so I I I
00:58:01
said well I feel lucky and he said well
00:58:02
you make your own luck and and that's
00:58:05
the message there
00:58:07
really the Insidious thing about
00:58:10
prostate cancer is that while it is one
00:58:12
of the more treatable forms of
00:58:15
cancer if you get it early um it's also
00:58:19
one that's a silent thing and and often
00:58:22
if you wait until symptoms start to
00:58:25
present
00:58:26
say as having to get up five or six
00:58:28
times at night to go to the L or unable
00:58:31
to pass you know to to have a p
00:58:34
something like that or the case of made
00:58:36
bit of back pain or whatever if it gets
00:58:38
to that point then often it's just a
00:58:41
sign that it it's you know it's really
00:58:44
starting to get invasive and and so this
00:58:49
is this is the message um that I got it
00:58:52
because I had a an annual blood test and
00:58:56
I was able to get on to it smartly and
00:59:00
look you know five and a half years down
00:59:02
the track everything's pointing in the
00:59:04
right direction I I I wouldn't tempt
00:59:06
fate I wouldn't put the you know the old
00:59:08
curse of the commentator I wouldn't say
00:59:10
I'm I'm over
00:59:12
completely yeah you know I wouldn't
00:59:15
necessarily put it that way but thanks
00:59:18
to that early intervention uh here I am
00:59:21
but yeah it was it was a boy it was a it
00:59:23
was a difficult time in my life Dom yeah
00:59:25
man I can't imagine so so you get off
00:59:27
the phone do you tell do you tell BL
00:59:29
yeah yeah he comes back and he goes
00:59:31
you're all right mate I said yeah oh no
00:59:33
not really he said I've got I've got
00:59:35
prostate
00:59:37
cancer and he course you know mate you
00:59:39
want me to drive you home now I'm all
00:59:40
right and I get home and and it's it's
00:59:43
funny it it took a while for it really
00:59:45
to to to sink in I had to wait as I say
00:59:48
I had to wait six weeks and I spent that
00:59:51
six weeks so we were going to go friends
00:59:53
of ours were having a a significant
00:59:55
birthday
00:59:56
and we had been saving for two years to
00:59:58
go and meet up with them in France
01:00:01
somewhere and um it was you know we had
01:00:06
two years to plan this thing and so I'd
01:00:08
been putting down deposits on hotels and
01:00:11
the the Harry Potter thing in London and
01:00:14
the sinee chapel and whatever you you're
01:00:16
a huge Harry Potter fan aren't you I I'd
01:00:19
spent the well not me my daughter yeah I
01:00:21
was more Lord of the Rings but so I had
01:00:24
to spend the next 6 months
01:00:27
going around getting back um all these
01:00:30
deposits which fortunately nearly
01:00:31
everyone did with the exception of our
01:00:33
national airline who would only give me
01:00:35
back half of it and there'd been a [ __ ]
01:00:38
up over the insurance or something so I
01:00:39
took a bit of a hit there and then
01:00:42
building up to having surgery um you
01:00:46
know was a pretty dark time because you
01:00:48
know you wake up in the middle of the
01:00:49
night and you start thinking I was more
01:00:51
worried I honestly was more worried
01:00:53
about how it was going to impact on my
01:00:55
family I couldn't bear the thought of my
01:00:57
daughter growing up without a dad you
01:00:58
know that sort of thing you know yeah
01:01:00
yeah cuz you you're a dad of one y um
01:01:03
and you I I suppose you'd call you your
01:01:05
an older father yeah definitely so so
01:01:08
your daughter so you were say 60 at the
01:01:11
time she was 12 yeah it took me um you
01:01:14
know I didn't meet Sarah until what what
01:01:17
was I I was in my 40s and you know
01:01:21
because I sort of was off the idea of
01:01:24
marriage a bit
01:01:26
once SP yeah but once I met her you know
01:01:31
and and so you know we had Lily and it
01:01:35
turned out that
01:01:38
um you know we had Lily and and and that
01:01:41
was it for us um but you know what it
01:01:43
it's been fatherhood's been the best
01:01:46
thing that's ever happened to me mate I
01:01:47
promise you I can't you know you feel so
01:01:51
fulfilled and um it made my life you
01:01:55
know more than any experience that I've
01:01:56
ever had you know the Olympics or World
01:02:00
Cups or anything like that um so but but
01:02:04
and also I think sometimes as an older
01:02:07
father the advantages is that you've
01:02:08
made all the mistakes that's possible to
01:02:10
make in life I know there's always more
01:02:13
but yeah you get all the main ones out
01:02:15
of the way you learn a lot and more
01:02:17
comfortable in your own skin yeah and
01:02:19
and
01:02:20
um so it's you know we have we have a
01:02:23
great Rel family Dynamic going on and
01:02:26
I'm to say it's another thing I'm really
01:02:27
grateful for well you you mentioned
01:02:29
earlier like losing your own Dad
01:02:31
recently so yeah you lost him as a as a
01:02:34
grown ass man in your 60s like I can't
01:02:36
imagine like you know the thought of
01:02:37
potentially losing your dad when you're
01:02:39
12 yeah yeah and but and it and it
01:02:41
happens um and you know it was tough for
01:02:45
me cuz my dad had you know I had such
01:02:48
great admiration for him the guy who who
01:02:51
was a very honest sort of a person very
01:02:53
mild sort of a guy I I mean there was
01:02:56
volatility in the family and I think I
01:02:57
probably inherited some of that but not
01:02:59
from my dad um and you know a
01:03:02
non-drinker uh and a guy who' had to
01:03:05
work had never had the opportunity to
01:03:07
play sport um because he was had to work
01:03:10
from a young age yeah um and and I miss
01:03:14
him you know every day and so yeah I it
01:03:16
it would be awful but so so again this
01:03:19
is why it's just important to get that
01:03:21
that that message out there um say
01:03:23
getting back to the prostate cancer
01:03:25
thing affects one in eight men in New
01:03:28
Zealand and that's a lot it's the most
01:03:30
common form of of cancer amongst men and
01:03:33
and it does take the life of of a lot of
01:03:35
men in New Zealand every year but early
01:03:39
detection gives you a really good chance
01:03:42
of of getting on top of it um and and
01:03:46
the best way to do it because because
01:03:48
you know New Zealand men are like you
01:03:50
hear guys saying I haven't been to the
01:03:52
doctor for 10 years like a badge of
01:03:54
honor like a badge of honor yeah
01:03:56
uh it's not smart and and so I think
01:04:00
they don't want to go because they're
01:04:02
scared of what they might find out but I
01:04:03
take it from
01:04:05
me it's a lot scarier when you find out
01:04:07
there is something wrong with you and
01:04:09
and if you can avoid that give yourself
01:04:11
the piece of mind that's what we're
01:04:12
trying to encourage people to do yeah
01:04:14
it's a simple thing you don't the
01:04:16
oldfashioned way I think used to put a
01:04:17
lot of guys off oh the finger with up
01:04:20
The
01:04:21
Bu that just doesn't happen yeah they
01:04:23
they can do a blood test now or they can
01:04:25
do the the the digit test but the even
01:04:27
the digit test like first of like it's
01:04:30
it's embarrassing for you as a patient
01:04:31
it's embarrassing for the doctor no one
01:04:33
yeah but it's in and out it's not very I
01:04:36
suppose if if the doctor that's part of
01:04:38
his job but you know and and if Pete
01:04:40
montgom of course Pete had prostate
01:04:42
cancer as well oh right and and he wrote
01:04:46
about it in his book and because Pete
01:04:48
came up with this novel approach to and
01:04:50
that was to pretend that he didn't have
01:04:52
it and he he took him a while before
01:04:54
they they tracked him down and got him
01:04:55
in there to have the have the but he you
01:04:57
know Pete's done great but as he said
01:04:59
you know with the digit you don't know
01:05:02
what's going on on the dark side of the
01:05:03
moon it's only it only covers half it so
01:05:06
yeah that's probably a bit more detail
01:05:07
than people want but what I'm saying is
01:05:10
is that you know men who are you know a
01:05:13
little bit
01:05:14
um uncomfortable with that idea well it
01:05:17
doesn't you don't have to do that you
01:05:19
just as I say go and get a blood and and
01:05:21
and it could you know cholesterol and
01:05:24
all those other things it's
01:05:26
you take your car in for a warrant of
01:05:28
Fitness every year what's wrong with
01:05:30
taking your own body in you know just
01:05:31
take yourself in go to the doctor get
01:05:34
your blood pressure checked and get a
01:05:36
blood test and that and and when you
01:05:38
know you come out of it and you think
01:05:39
well that's great that's me for another
01:05:40
year yeah was since I turned 50 last
01:05:43
year and I I made a a pack to myself
01:05:45
which I've stuck to again it's only been
01:05:46
two birthdays um but every year on the
01:05:49
week of my birthday I'll go to the
01:05:50
doctor and get a full medical and the um
01:05:52
the uh the feeling you have when it
01:05:54
comes back as everything's yeah it's um
01:05:56
it's liberating well I cuz I had years
01:05:59
of that and I never even gave them a
01:06:01
second thought and so when you get that
01:06:03
phone call to say uh there's something
01:06:05
up you think oh God and then I still
01:06:08
have to go I have to have a blood test I
01:06:09
have one every um every 3 months just to
01:06:13
make sure that everything's still going
01:06:14
right and I still go through
01:06:16
uh 24 hours of some anxiety
01:06:20
catastrophizing well yeah there's an
01:06:23
interesting thing that um because Wayne
01:06:25
Smith had it around the same time as me
01:06:27
as well and and you know Smithy and I go
01:06:30
way back when I was work I worked for a
01:06:32
few months and toodo as a Cadet and they
01:06:34
sent me down to cover a rugby match um
01:06:36
and that was the first time I'd ever
01:06:37
covered a rugby match that's when I
01:06:39
first realized this is what I want to do
01:06:41
Smith he was playing in that game he was
01:06:42
a 19-year-old from B he was a year older
01:06:44
than me and he went through the same
01:06:46
thing and one of the things he said was
01:06:48
you know he'd got some advice from his
01:06:50
um doctor and said when you you know
01:06:53
don't think ahead think think back
01:06:56
reflect on all the the the the good
01:06:59
things positive things rather than
01:07:01
worrying about what's what what what
01:07:03
lies ahead it was a really good bit of
01:07:05
advice I like that yeah yeah that's
01:07:08
really cool okay so um so that day you
01:07:11
find does does the urologist on the
01:07:12
phone does he does he say we've got it
01:07:15
early everything should be okay or does
01:07:17
he um well they they've got to be
01:07:19
careful um about obviously what they but
01:07:23
his view was look this is we really we
01:07:26
have got this early um your my PSA level
01:07:30
wasn't High it had just risen you know
01:07:33
from not being very much like that um so
01:07:38
there was always going to be a question
01:07:40
you know
01:07:41
of some of it sort of leaking out and
01:07:44
and and what have you and and that but
01:07:47
right from the the the surgery went well
01:07:50
and he said no unexpected surprises and
01:07:53
then when you know hystology came back
01:07:55
and they looked at it and he said you
01:07:58
know we're lucky because or not so lucky
01:08:02
he said if if you know it's good that we
01:08:04
got it this early because it was just
01:08:06
starting to erupt and then when the
01:08:10
blood test came back and you know that
01:08:12
was that was all good news so they have
01:08:15
to be careful but the message they kept
01:08:17
giving me all the way through cuz they
01:08:19
could tell how anxious I was was look
01:08:21
we're ahead of the game here you know
01:08:24
you you you you're dealing with this
01:08:25
you've got this very early and and just
01:08:29
say can't stress that enough that's
01:08:31
that's the you know that's that's the
01:08:33
the message well thanks for sharing it's
01:08:35
really really important stuff so yeah so
01:08:37
you you go home you tell Sarah in in
01:08:39
person or do you yeah yeah yeah and and
01:08:42
how's that wasn't easy but you know
01:08:46
she's a a very practical sort and it's
01:08:49
like she doesn't believe in worrying
01:08:50
about things that haven't happened yet
01:08:52
it's great advice easier said than done
01:08:54
though way it is
01:08:56
especially when it's someone else about
01:08:57
yourself yeah I mean it was difficult
01:09:00
surely it was hard for her it was hard
01:09:03
you know telling my daughter that you
01:09:05
know I'm afraid the the Trip's off um
01:09:08
yeah how how do you how do you do that
01:09:09
do you your wife sit down I just said to
01:09:11
he said look you know um
01:09:14
dad's got to have to have an operation
01:09:16
if I don't have this operation I could
01:09:18
get really sick um and you know cuz she
01:09:20
was still quite young at the time and I
01:09:23
and unfortunately it just means we're
01:09:25
going I better go on this trip and she
01:09:26
said oh okay and I could obviously she'd
01:09:28
be disappointed but that that kind of
01:09:31
helped she she took it on her stride
01:09:33
pretty well and how' you hold it
01:09:35
together when you're having that
01:09:36
conversation uh yeah it wasn't wasn't
01:09:39
easy is it like a case of like just
01:09:41
trying to to put on a good show yeah
01:09:43
absolutely you got to be strong cuz
01:09:45
otherwise if they see you're upset with
01:09:47
them that's up that's probably more
01:09:48
upsetting than the actual news so yeah
01:09:51
yeah and I had my uh you certainly have
01:09:54
your your your your difficult times
01:09:58
um and again I just came back to that
01:10:01
thing that I had earlier on that if I
01:10:03
get through this you know I'm going to
01:10:06
make sure I make the most of every day
01:10:08
so even if you're having a bad day it's
01:10:09
still a good day like the old saying any
01:10:12
day above ground yeah yeah yeah so and
01:10:15
you know work were good um I didn't tell
01:10:18
too many people didn't tell too many
01:10:21
people at all and then I decided after
01:10:23
I'd got to the three-year mark
01:10:25
and I thought look enough um things are
01:10:28
going pretty well and so I was due to do
01:10:30
a BL low cup test in Melbourne and I
01:10:34
spoke to one of the guys at work he's a
01:10:36
Content producer guy called Mark Maliki
01:10:38
Williams he's brilliant and told him
01:10:41
about it and he said yeah let's do
01:10:42
something so I was in Melbourne and he
01:10:45
came and he'd come around home and we
01:10:48
we' recorded this piece and talked a
01:10:49
little bit about my career and what have
01:10:51
you but he um we talked about the the
01:10:55
the the cancer thing and again very much
01:10:57
with a view to getting the message out
01:10:59
there and I'm sitting there in Melbourne
01:11:01
suddenly the phone starts buzzing and
01:11:03
I'm getting messages from all over the
01:11:05
place and one of the nicest ones I got
01:11:07
one was from sumo of Scotty Stevenson
01:11:10
who' not long gone to tvnz and he's got
01:11:12
it up on his you know social media
01:11:14
profile and stuff and people like that
01:11:16
going well didn't know um but thanks for
01:11:19
doing it and stuff like that and um why
01:11:23
why why did you not tell many people
01:11:25
strategic decision because people don't
01:11:27
like talking about cancer and when you
01:11:29
say you've got it they you sometimes you
01:11:31
see people almost
01:11:33
blanching and I just thought I just
01:11:35
wanted to deal with it amongst in my own
01:11:39
um group you know my own close group a
01:11:42
couple of close friends um family and
01:11:46
particularly my my wife and daughter um
01:11:50
and it didn't sort of say too much about
01:11:52
it then when I you know people started
01:11:54
ring because I had to take a few weeks
01:11:55
off afterwards and people ringing up
01:11:57
saying are you okay mate and you know
01:11:59
gradually sort of got it out there but
01:12:02
that was just my way of dealing with it
01:12:03
I I felt that was best for me I wasn't
01:12:06
going to write a daily blog about it
01:12:08
some people do when they're dealing with
01:12:09
these sorts of things and if that helps
01:12:11
them great or they go on their Facebook
01:12:13
page and I know one guy you know
01:12:15
reviewing all the Alton John albums you
01:12:17
know doing this while he's going through
01:12:18
chemotherapy and um but that wasn't my
01:12:21
way of dealing with it but I thought if
01:12:24
i' be if I'm fortunate enough to get
01:12:25
through this then I probably owe it to
01:12:27
my you know
01:12:29
fellow man it's because this is a man's
01:12:33
disease um to to to do something that in
01:12:36
the hope that you know if you can just
01:12:38
help one person get an early detection
01:12:40
to beat it then then that you've done it
01:12:43
yeah also you're your peers and i' I'd
01:12:45
um I'm I'm 51 but i' I'd consider myself
01:12:48
in that group um we are notoriously bad
01:12:51
at this stuff aren't we yeah we're
01:12:52
terrible terrible history terrible I
01:12:54
think we get I think we are getting
01:12:55
better I don't for sure and and we're
01:12:57
getting better at talking about things
01:12:59
yeah and you know people like John
01:13:01
Kerwin for example with um me mental
01:13:03
health issues I mean I I know um someone
01:13:07
who's you know quite close to me that
01:13:10
I've known all my life had real problems
01:13:13
and people like JK can Empower people
01:13:15
like that and realize that actually you
01:13:18
know mental health issues affect a lot
01:13:19
of people and so the more open that we
01:13:21
can be about it the better it's going to
01:13:24
be m um but you know I I I don't mind
01:13:28
admitting it I I was one of those people
01:13:30
who always used to sort of shy away from
01:13:31
it and it wasn't was just because it's
01:13:33
your generation yeah yeah yeah how's
01:13:36
yeah how's your mental health been um
01:13:38
good yeah I I um I've had a few you know
01:13:42
times in my life where things you know
01:13:44
get on get you down a little bit and I
01:13:46
had uh I had a terrible uh influenza
01:13:50
when Lily was just a baby and I it
01:13:53
wouldn't leave me alone for months a bit
01:13:56
like a long Co thing and I experienced
01:13:59
it sort of quite a bad depression then
01:14:02
uh to the point where I I just felt like
01:14:03
I couldn't work for a while but just
01:14:05
something I've managed to you know work
01:14:07
my way through you know I've had the odd
01:14:10
bout of that um only I would say four or
01:14:14
five times in my life but you learn to
01:14:16
recognize the symptoms or or the early
01:14:19
warning signs and even uh earlier on
01:14:22
this year I had a weekend off and I just
01:14:24
took myself off down to friends have got
01:14:26
a batch down at y Beach and I just went
01:14:28
down there and you know spent a few days
01:14:29
there reading the book and going for
01:14:31
walks and stuff and and that was quite a
01:14:34
good thing to do um you know mental
01:14:37
health it's a big deal you know we we
01:14:39
live in stressful times there are all
01:14:41
sorts of different things that
01:14:42
contribute to it the economics work all
01:14:45
of those things and and it it is helpful
01:14:48
to talk about it but in my case it's
01:14:50
just a case of you you you recognize
01:14:53
when things are starting to get to you a
01:14:55
bit and you you you take a step back or
01:14:58
you you know it helps you kind of cut
01:15:01
things off at the past I I you know feel
01:15:04
for people who deal with it on a more
01:15:06
regular basis uh it it must be horrible
01:15:09
because um you know it's it's it's not
01:15:12
it's not nice yeah like just life
01:15:14
without without Joy really isn't it you
01:15:17
have that chemical imbalance and I think
01:15:19
one of the first sports people who
01:15:21
talked about it was Richard Hadley CU
01:15:24
yeah when he did the double he did the
01:15:27
um I can't was it 100 wickets and a
01:15:29
th000 runs in a season county cricket he
01:15:32
he stressed himself out so much um going
01:15:36
for that that it really had a massive
01:15:37
effect on his mental health and he was
01:15:40
quite open about it which was Brave
01:15:42
because that was at a time where people
01:15:44
didn't want to know about you know
01:15:46
people's struggles mental health
01:15:48
struggles they you know the the the
01:15:50
message that you used to get was oh come
01:15:52
on harden up have a conr it was it was
01:15:57
the messaging at the time well oh thanks
01:15:59
for giving um Headley the flowers I had
01:16:00
no idea about that yeah yeah yeah I've
01:16:03
had um um you know sir JK on the podcast
01:16:06
before and it's um like it's I talk
01:16:09
about Mental Health on this podcast a
01:16:11
lot and it's um it's only because of
01:16:13
people like John Kerwin and I suppose
01:16:14
more recently Mike King that were're
01:16:16
able to have those conversations but I
01:16:18
cannot imagine how terrifying it was for
01:16:19
John kwin to um you first do that ad
01:16:22
campaign and go public about it well and
01:16:24
you think about the environment that he
01:16:26
was in because the All Blacks was still
01:16:29
you know it was a very old-fashioned
01:16:30
sort of ethos and you know I could it
01:16:35
would have been very difficult for him
01:16:36
just to even talk about it and I know
01:16:38
you know a couple of his teammates did
01:16:40
tell him to to harden up um so I'm glad
01:16:43
that we've we've we've moved on from
01:16:46
that um we've come yeah we've come a
01:16:47
long way are you are you have you always
01:16:50
been good at having like open and
01:16:52
vulnerable conversations with your
01:16:53
friends or is it something you've
01:16:55
consciously sort of worked on or you
01:16:57
still know there's more work needed
01:16:59
there for you no i' I'm lucky and it
01:17:04
it's again it sort of relates to my work
01:17:06
a bit and I mentioned a couple of names
01:17:08
before Pete and and and Bill Francis in
01:17:10
particular um but there are there are
01:17:13
one or two others as well and whether
01:17:15
it's work or whether it's personal stuff
01:17:19
you know for example you know feedback
01:17:21
in terms of how things are going at work
01:17:23
with my commentaries and stuff like that
01:17:25
because everyone's got an opinion and
01:17:27
some of them are not very pleasant um
01:17:30
some of them are really nice uh and I I
01:17:33
decided and and Razer actually Robins
01:17:37
Robertson came up with this at a a a
01:17:39
briefing that I went to once and he said
01:17:41
choose who you listen to and I thought
01:17:44
that's a fantastic piece of advice for
01:17:46
you know for someone in in my industry
01:17:48
and you know a lot of other Industries
01:17:50
as well where you've got people who you
01:17:53
know put so much weight on what you're
01:17:56
dealing with you know whether it's the
01:17:57
rugby or whether it's the broadcast or
01:17:59
whatever and and so a lot of people have
01:18:01
got an opinion people get very angry
01:18:03
about the outcome of sports and they
01:18:05
want to lash out they lash out at the
01:18:07
Players or they lash out at the referee
01:18:09
and sometimes they lash out at the
01:18:10
commentator and so you know Razer always
01:18:14
had that that Mantra you know choose who
01:18:16
you listen to and I'm lucky that I've
01:18:18
got couple of people who are really
01:18:22
supportive of me and that if I think
01:18:24
I've done something something wrong I
01:18:25
can talk to them about it uh and also
01:18:28
I've got a mate one of our um camera
01:18:30
operators Andy um we meet up every week
01:18:33
and we we go through all that stuff as
01:18:35
well he's a really good sounding board
01:18:36
as well so the value of of of talking
01:18:40
about it yeah AB absolutely even at my
01:18:43
age
01:18:44
now um to to rationalize things not
01:18:48
build cuz I I think this was an issue
01:18:51
with my father's generation you you kept
01:18:54
it all inside yeah it was like a BGE of
01:18:56
Honor well yeah like stoicism but it
01:19:00
would it would build up and I think I I
01:19:02
have no doubt that doing
01:19:04
that can over an extended period of time
01:19:07
can have a
01:19:08
detrimental impact not only just on your
01:19:10
mental health but your physical health
01:19:12
as well so that you know they say
01:19:14
problem a is a problem problem Shar is a
01:19:17
problem hared something to that yeah and
01:19:21
I think we we know we know that now
01:19:23
we're as I'm in the past like you
01:19:25
vulnerability was maybe seen as some
01:19:27
sort of like um a [ __ ] in your arm you
01:19:29
know like a weakness we know now there's
01:19:31
strength and vulnerability yeah
01:19:33
absolutely but it is even knowing that
01:19:35
information if if that's not the way
01:19:36
you've been raised it's hard to suddenly
01:19:38
go okay I'm going to and look it's hard
01:19:41
and you know I I feel sorry for you know
01:19:44
some sports people um and there
01:19:46
certainly people in the in the industry
01:19:49
that I'm in um anyone who's a public
01:19:52
figure really because
01:19:55
social media I don't really do it you
01:19:58
know I had a Facebook page for a while
01:20:00
and then I got sick of people telling me
01:20:02
who to vote for and so I I kind of Jack
01:20:05
that as well but I I tend to stay away
01:20:08
from it because it's like it's put it
01:20:10
this way people who come up to me you
01:20:13
know come up in the street or on the gym
01:20:15
or wherever they're all nice almost all
01:20:19
are nice you know and whereas people on
01:20:23
social media they hide behind a uh you
01:20:27
know a false name or a fake profile or
01:20:30
something like that and they say the
01:20:31
most terrible things I had I had to um I
01:20:35
talked to a a one of our guys who's one
01:20:38
of New Zealand's most loved Sports
01:20:40
people and he'd been working with us for
01:20:42
a while and it wasn't so much a social
01:20:44
media thing it was a thing that a guy
01:20:46
had written about in the Dominion Post
01:20:49
and he had a real go at the sky not so
01:20:52
much the sky commentators although he
01:20:54
was you know free with his opinions
01:20:56
there too but the the ex all blacks and
01:20:58
the job that they were doing and this he
01:21:01
said to me he said oh I'm going to Chuck
01:21:02
it in I don't need this and I'm going
01:21:04
mate look it's don't let a guy like that
01:21:08
um you know impact on your career or
01:21:11
don't let him determine your future he
01:21:14
said no it's not me he said it's my kids
01:21:17
they're old enough to read it and I I I
01:21:20
do wish sometimes that people would
01:21:22
think I you know have a got me
01:21:25
okay have a go I don't care but you know
01:21:30
no just don't don't don't have a go
01:21:32
anyway but I I'd hate to be say for
01:21:35
example the daughter of an all black
01:21:37
coach or something like that he coping
01:21:39
it in social media or son and you You'
01:21:42
read people saying that sort of stuff
01:21:43
about your father you know do people
01:21:45
think about that before they they fly
01:21:47
off the handle and and and go on social
01:21:50
media bagging people I mean when it
01:21:53
started I thought media was great I
01:21:55
thought Twitter you know when you get
01:21:57
guys NBA
01:21:58
players tweeting from the locker room
01:22:01
before a big playoff game it cuts out
01:22:04
the middleman in the media yeah all the
01:22:06
those sort of control freaks that run
01:22:08
the media side of things and you know
01:22:11
teach all those cliches to say I thought
01:22:13
it was great and and it helped me G Dan
01:22:16
Carter used it really well you know to
01:22:18
connect and thank his fans you know
01:22:20
really say how much he appreciated their
01:22:22
support but it just seems to me to have
01:22:25
been taken over a lot in recent Times by
01:22:30
there's a lot of nastiness out there and
01:22:31
it's just I it's just something you know
01:22:35
if someone must ever go at me on social
01:22:37
media go ahead because because I'm not
01:22:39
going to see
01:22:40
it well I mean Rugby's Rugby's our
01:22:43
national game um and you're right at the
01:22:46
thick of it you'd be mad to be on social
01:22:47
media like it make your toes curl yeah
01:22:50
why would you subject yourself to that
01:22:52
yeah well I don't yeah
01:22:55
um you know you mentioned before how
01:22:56
yeah people are nice in person um so I
01:22:59
um sir Ashley Bloomfield on the podcast
01:23:01
theair that you're in now and no no
01:23:03
doubt you've seen some horrible things
01:23:05
written about him online um he said the
01:23:07
worst that he had is someone coming up
01:23:09
to him once saying oh you're Dr
01:23:10
Bloomfield a you and he was like yeah
01:23:11
and and the P said well I hope you have
01:23:13
a horrible day and then walked away and
01:23:15
I I laughed at the cuteness of it in a
01:23:18
way because it's you fairly innocuous
01:23:20
but um yeah people are just like Savage
01:23:24
online like they would say things that
01:23:26
they would never dream of saying to a
01:23:27
person's face yeah yeah and look it's
01:23:30
been part of what you know in my job as
01:23:34
a commentator because people make
01:23:36
mistakes we all make mistakes and this
01:23:38
is something I think Brendan Tela said
01:23:39
to me you know early on when I went to
01:23:42
television I was a bit afraid of it
01:23:44
really um and it was a bit of a leap
01:23:47
going into you know into TV and into TV
01:23:50
Rugby Commentary but he said look it's
01:23:52
live sport you're going to make a
01:23:53
mistake every every now and then you
01:23:55
just got to move on you got to learn
01:23:56
from it whatever you but we all we all
01:23:59
make mistakes for sure um but we don't
01:24:03
do it you know deliberately um and
01:24:08
yeah I
01:24:10
just it's just something I don't you
01:24:12
know that social media thing I leave it
01:24:15
out well you're um you're a
01:24:16
perfectionist and you've been very good
01:24:17
at your job um you know you don't have
01:24:19
the longevity in the career that you've
01:24:21
had you know without being that way um
01:24:24
what's your in a voice like so say say
01:24:26
you call a test match um Never Satisfied
01:24:30
really yeah never so you you you go back
01:24:32
to the the hotel and you're you're in
01:24:34
the Uber you're ruminating on things one
01:24:37
thing that I said you know that I could
01:24:38
have said better oh God or whatever and
01:24:41
hawksby used to give me such a hard time
01:24:43
you know because I'd be on the doing the
01:24:44
sports news on TV3 and and if I made one
01:24:48
little slip of the tongue you know he in
01:24:51
the end he got sick of it he said for
01:24:53
God's sake stop beating yourself up it's
01:24:56
getting boring you know and you know in
01:24:59
a joking you
01:25:00
know constructive yeah of way just had a
01:25:04
healthier perspective on things like
01:25:05
it's only the [ __ ] use yeah yeah but
01:25:07
you know oh yeah but you know I think
01:25:10
the thing is from my own point of view
01:25:13
um that you have license to to make when
01:25:16
you've been around for a while I guess
01:25:18
there's a bit of License to make a
01:25:20
comment about
01:25:21
something I would never say anything
01:25:24
about a player that I wouldn't say to
01:25:26
their face and I always think you know
01:25:30
my sort of Mantra is you may say
01:25:34
something critical about the action but
01:25:38
don't say something critical about the
01:25:40
person if you if you get what I mean
01:25:42
there's a distinction there so you know
01:25:44
that wasn't the right thing to do or
01:25:46
he'll regret that or something like that
01:25:48
he just you know um because you know
01:25:52
they're all out there trying their their
01:25:53
best as well and but people might think
01:25:55
that's soft and I know some people think
01:25:57
we should be bagging them you know why
01:26:00
aren't you getting stuck into them and
01:26:01
all that you you get that that message
01:26:03
fil filters through but I feel like
01:26:05
that's old school I feel like that's
01:26:07
like from the late '90s the muray DEA
01:26:09
time you know where there was almost
01:26:11
almost this like nastiness with sport
01:26:13
yeah and the post analysis I don't know
01:26:16
yeah and that's what because for years I
01:26:19
did a program called reunion which used
01:26:21
to be on Tuesday nights and
01:26:24
you know it was a pretty successful
01:26:26
program we talked a lot about you know
01:26:28
the the big the things that had fled up
01:26:29
at the weekend but the great thing was
01:26:31
was that it gave you a day or two to
01:26:35
step back from the white hot emotion
01:26:37
that often follows an all black test De
01:26:40
attack the coach yeah and and try and
01:26:42
try and rationalize things a bit and you
01:26:46
know and I think this is one of the
01:26:47
things about Twitter and that is that
01:26:50
people or or some of the message boards
01:26:52
or whatever people
01:26:54
do it when they're angry you can tell I
01:26:57
can tell you know when someone and I
01:26:59
could you know think of writers around
01:27:01
the world I know one in South Africa one
01:27:02
in Ireland I can tell they've written a
01:27:05
column and they're angry and I think
01:27:08
just take six deep breaths calm down
01:27:11
because you you know you've got the time
01:27:13
to do that the trouble with with
01:27:15
television is that you say something
01:27:16
that's that's it it's there you've said
01:27:18
it it's there forever and I've I've
01:27:20
learned probably the hard way about that
01:27:22
because you know I've certainly had
01:27:24
times over the years where I get to the
01:27:26
end of a game think why did you say that
01:27:29
yeah any any standout regrets or you
01:27:31
don't want to not not really not not not
01:27:34
above all I know there was a a game in
01:27:36
Australia one time where we
01:27:38
were uh given a bit of license because
01:27:42
it was a New Zealand only coverage of a
01:27:45
um Super Rugby semifinal and it was it
01:27:49
was over it's over 20 years ago and they
01:27:52
said you know someone sort of suggested
01:27:54
I could be as biased as I like but I
01:27:56
realized then that you you can't because
01:27:59
there's always someone from the other
01:28:01
side listening you know that was a yeah
01:28:05
I learned that from my mistake that time
01:28:08
I I regretted that I got to the end of
01:28:10
it and I thought you idiot you know well
01:28:13
oh you've got a good heart hey you're
01:28:15
you're a good person you must have
01:28:16
worked with people that um have have
01:28:18
taken a different approach and maybe you
01:28:20
know um given you a piece of their mind
01:28:23
to players on the commentary how how
01:28:25
does that feel for you when you're
01:28:26
sitting there yeah no I think most of
01:28:29
them you know having been players
01:28:31
themselves they don't do that um because
01:28:34
they know what it's like to actually be
01:28:35
there and they understand that um oh
01:28:39
look there's there's no doubt that every
01:28:40
now and then players will take exception
01:28:42
to something that someone said but you
01:28:45
know that's as I say if you got to just
01:28:47
be a to front up to that and and uh you
01:28:51
know got to own it have have you been um
01:28:55
yeah confronted by a player no I've had
01:28:57
a couple of coaches ring me and a couple
01:28:58
of referees ring me the referees
01:29:01
generally will be pretty good they'll
01:29:03
say look I just want to explain why I
01:29:05
made that decision um and the the thing
01:29:09
about the refs too is that we we've had
01:29:10
a lot more dialogue with them it used to
01:29:12
be you know You' be up there and you'd
01:29:15
be criticizing this and that or the
01:29:18
comments people would be or whatever um
01:29:20
and then once we start a dialogue with
01:29:22
them I think it's been been icial for
01:29:24
both sides because they've become so
01:29:26
much more aware of the need to explain
01:29:28
their decisions in the moment and
01:29:31
because of the fact that they're miked
01:29:33
up will give them that space to let them
01:29:34
explain their decision I think that's
01:29:36
that's been a a healthy thing uh I think
01:29:39
more back in my radio days you know and
01:29:42
I I was probably a bit more outlandish
01:29:44
in radio um because you could get away
01:29:47
with it a bit and I you know
01:29:48
occasionally had the odd coach ring up
01:29:50
and had a couple of Fairly T
01:29:52
conversations but
01:29:54
no I I think who what coaches oh no this
01:29:57
is going way back I can't even um I
01:29:59
think it was one of the Chiefs coaches
01:30:01
in the very early days but look you know
01:30:03
the thing is um as you get older more
01:30:08
experienced in the job I think you learn
01:30:10
you know you have to be
01:30:11
fair
01:30:13
um and you know try really hard to be
01:30:17
even about it measured yeah and just and
01:30:21
to me I you know I do like to accentuate
01:30:24
the
01:30:25
positives I'd rather do that well look
01:30:29
it's sport isn't it yeah what about um
01:30:31
like bloopers brain farts accidental swe
01:30:35
words um I can't I I I I was trying to
01:30:39
think about it um yesterday when I
01:30:40
started doing some prep for this and I
01:30:42
can't remember anything that stands out
01:30:43
but I'm sure probably did a couple on
01:30:45
radio I remember when Clint Brown was
01:30:47
doing a breakfast show one time and he
01:30:48
rang me up for my birthday but there'd
01:30:50
been a bit of a stash at Indoor Cricket
01:30:52
the night before I didn't realize I was
01:30:54
on here and I might have dropped
01:30:56
something in there into the conversation
01:30:58
just adjective that I wouldn't normally
01:31:00
use but um I sometimes you have a little
01:31:03
slip of the tongue and I remember one on
01:31:05
radio one morning um and it was the
01:31:08
World Cup was on and Argentina were
01:31:12
playing and Diego Maradona who was
01:31:14
coming towards the end of his career but
01:31:16
he scored this spectacular goal and I
01:31:19
went on in my line was well Diego
01:31:21
maradon has just proved he still got
01:31:23
what it takes
01:31:25
um with a stunning goal in the match
01:31:27
against so and so maradon crapped one in
01:31:30
from the edge of the Box instead of
01:31:32
cracked one in from the edge of the box
01:31:35
and I got a phone call straight away
01:31:36
from a a guy done a b r Phil horn a
01:31:39
former New Zealand C cricketer and he
01:31:40
said he just about drove off the new
01:31:41
market Viaduct when he heard it and and
01:31:44
of course you realize what you said and
01:31:46
I think I started giggling or whatever
01:31:48
yeah oh look you know there've been a
01:31:51
few of them so there's nothing that
01:31:52
brings to mind that you said on uh a TV
01:31:55
commentary that's gone viral on Tik Tok
01:31:57
or anything like that I suppose that's
01:31:59
what you don't want to happen probably
01:32:00
too many to out um has there been um oh
01:32:04
yeah how much pre do you put into it
01:32:05
lots yeah what's so so we're recording
01:32:08
this on a um Tuesday afternoon you're
01:32:10
off to um Australia this weekend for the
01:32:12
L cup so when do you when do you start
01:32:14
prepping for that game what what's
01:32:16
involved yeah I
01:32:19
probably even in the beginning of the
01:32:21
week you start thinking about possible
01:32:23
themes for the test match you you can't
01:32:27
script A Commentary but what you can be
01:32:30
is is is well prepared as possible so
01:32:33
you start thinking about okay what's the
01:32:35
story here what's the story about this
01:32:37
now in this case obviously it's the All
01:32:39
Blacks bouncing back from a couple of
01:32:42
test losses against the
01:32:44
springbox um about trying to solve out
01:32:47
you know who's best in what position the
01:32:49
evolution of the team under a new coach
01:32:51
what they're learning so there's that
01:32:53
but also the Australians you know
01:32:55
they're at a Lowe at the moment and so
01:32:57
you start you know and I'll start sort
01:32:59
of thinking about what what the themes
01:33:00
might be and then the the teams will
01:33:03
come out and and I'll I'll I actually
01:33:07
write the teams out um because to me
01:33:09
that's part of the process of committing
01:33:12
uh who's who to to your memory because I
01:33:14
used to when I was studying for a
01:33:15
geography exam at school or English you
01:33:18
know I used to write out my notes and
01:33:19
that was how I remember I still do I
01:33:21
write the teams out I I I with got
01:33:24
access to some really good
01:33:26
stats um if they're appropriate I'll use
01:33:29
them I don't use a lot of stats um but
01:33:32
if there's a good one in there so you
01:33:33
have them ready to go and if I might
01:33:36
drop a name in here and in terms of
01:33:39
preparation no one prepared more
01:33:42
fastidiously for a rugby test match or
01:33:45
big rugby game than Bill McLaren the
01:33:47
legendary Bill McLaren and I was lucky
01:33:49
enough to work with him two or three
01:33:51
times including at the Hong Kong s in
01:33:54
1995 and this was my first big TV
01:33:57
commentary gig and he showed me all his
01:33:59
notes and he's got copious player notes
01:34:03
he said but if I use more than half of
01:34:05
them I've overdone
01:34:06
it and the other the other thing about
01:34:10
Bill McLaren was that the night before
01:34:13
the the the seven started it's about
01:34:15
halfast 8 and myself from the TV3 guys
01:34:17
we're going out for a dinner and a
01:34:19
couple of Quiet Ones bill's coming in
01:34:22
he's been out for dinner with his wife
01:34:24
he's coming in to go to bed as I'm going
01:34:26
out and he looks at me and I think oh my
01:34:28
Lord and he goes and he and I won't I
01:34:31
won't do the X right he said no shil
01:34:34
Shing for you tonight lad you've got a
01:34:36
big day tomorrow and I right okay I just
01:34:40
about turned around and went back in at
01:34:42
that we're going to get room service
01:34:44
yeah yeah because because he was a a
01:34:47
fastidious um preparer um researcher and
01:34:51
he did all his own research but as I say
01:34:54
as he always said it's there if the
01:34:57
moment is right and because people can
01:34:59
always tell when you're trying to force
01:35:02
crowbar something in Crow exactly
01:35:04
crowbar a story Into the commentary
01:35:06
you've got to wait for the moment it
01:35:08
might not come until the 65th minute um
01:35:11
so you know I'd like
01:35:12
to I think if you if you prepare well it
01:35:16
helps to get you into the right mindset
01:35:19
um so that you're not scratching your
01:35:21
head during the game thinking oh gosh if
01:35:23
it you know he must be getting near a
01:35:24
record or something like that um yeah so
01:35:28
I I'll spend obviously I'll have a a a
01:35:32
flight to make over there but I'll put
01:35:35
in a good three days Mah before I get to
01:35:40
the the point of doing the commentary
01:35:42
well and it shows do you get
01:35:44
nervous oh there's always a little
01:35:45
flutter yeah is there still yeah that's
01:35:48
good isn't it someone said to me once
01:35:50
that the day that little flut is not
01:35:52
there probably the day that you should
01:35:54
give it away see the thing is Dom I I
01:35:57
honest this is a it's a privilege to do
01:35:58
this job
01:36:01
and I just know it's a job that a lot of
01:36:03
people would love to be able to have a
01:36:05
cracker I get to the the thrill of being
01:36:08
there live sport which nothing like it
01:36:10
and the thrill of being part of a live
01:36:12
broadcast and it's probably 50/50 for me
01:36:14
because the broadcasting side of it you
01:36:16
know I really I really love it's it's
01:36:18
exhilarating but it's a it's an honor to
01:36:20
be able to do it and so you've always
01:36:21
got to give it your best shot
01:36:25
and I do still feel a little bit nervous
01:36:29
you know before a test match and I just
01:36:32
like it when I can go into the box you
01:36:34
know you do your rehearsals and I can
01:36:35
just sit there with going over my notes
01:36:37
and that you tend to sort of calm down a
01:36:39
bit there
01:36:41
um well much like the the the the
01:36:43
players and a like it's a high
01:36:44
performance job like you can only have
01:36:46
like a few Shockers before you know um
01:36:50
selection
01:36:51
questions no but a few in a row before
01:36:54
you know selection questions will be
01:36:55
asked yeah I mean you know as I say that
01:36:58
the day that you don't get that little
01:37:00
flutter you know it it's probably the
01:37:03
day you need to start thinking about
01:37:05
calling it quits and I I
01:37:08
do think I I I put perhaps not quite the
01:37:13
three-day thing but you it doesn't
01:37:15
matter whether it's a a game for even
01:37:17
from the Heartland or uh sevens or
01:37:20
whatever you you still put the
01:37:22
preparation in because for those people
01:37:25
playing or the people watching it's
01:37:27
still it's a really important thing and
01:37:29
you've got to uh respect that and I just
01:37:34
always love it for example you know a
01:37:36
player makes his debut and they're
01:37:38
really good at it Sky they're really
01:37:39
awake to it the you know directors the
01:37:41
camera operators and that that someone
01:37:44
comes on the field just to be on the
01:37:46
field playing for you know manowa 2 or
01:37:49
Oto or whatever for the first time
01:37:52
that's a big moment in that person 's
01:37:54
life and so you acknowledge that you
01:37:56
know and you what school they went to or
01:37:58
what club they come out of cuz you know
01:38:00
you love it they love it with the clubs
01:38:02
When you mention them um know something
01:38:04
about them so you're not just saying oh
01:38:07
it's the new it's the replacement
01:38:08
forward so and so you know they've all
01:38:11
got a story yeah in the age we're living
01:38:13
in now I suppose those little sound
01:38:14
bites have never been more important
01:38:15
because you can repurpose them for
01:38:17
Instagram Clips or Tik Tok what's that
01:38:21
other one there's another one called
01:38:22
huddle or something there's one I that
01:38:24
they I can't remember what it's called
01:38:26
and that sounds like a post analysis
01:38:28
show that you're on isn't it there's one
01:38:30
of them I maybe I've got that wrong I
01:38:32
know there's one where you even the kids
01:38:34
at you know at school who might be
01:38:36
trying to get themselves a a scholarship
01:38:39
somewhere or whatever or you know
01:38:40
whether it's basketball or they just
01:38:42
clip together their like a CV like a
01:38:45
video CV yeah and what about in terms of
01:38:47
um like ex players you've worked with
01:38:49
who's like who who's who's been the best
01:38:51
it's quite funny cuz in in radio like um
01:38:53
yeah similar part to you ex I'm from
01:38:55
music radio background yeah but radio
01:38:57
people are radio people and then I've
01:38:59
I've had the privilege of working with a
01:39:00
number of sports people like Jenny
01:39:01
moffen Mar beam Jeff Wilson um and white
01:39:06
Angy Copo and they they tend to just
01:39:07
have a different sort of mindset like
01:39:09
they get in there they want to figure
01:39:10
out how things are done and how they can
01:39:12
do it to the best of their it's like a a
01:39:14
different sort of competitive mentality
01:39:17
yeah um and I've worked with a real
01:39:20
range of them and they're all different
01:39:23
I mean I I worked in radio I worked with
01:39:27
buck and and and buck was great and like
01:39:30
me he's a a Prostate Cancer Foundation
01:39:32
Ambassador and then I worked with John
01:39:35
Drake and the thing about Drake was that
01:39:37
I'd met him once before with Rocky
01:39:39
Patterson I used to work with in the
01:39:40
radio and we were walking down Queen
01:39:43
Street um to get something for lunch and
01:39:45
here's John Drake and I didn't think
01:39:47
Drake was particularly interested in who
01:39:50
whoever I was you know I was radio days
01:39:53
so I found out a few years later that he
01:39:55
wanted to uh have a crack at Radio
01:39:57
commentary I thought God that was a bit
01:39:59
of a surprise and while we became best
01:40:01
mates very very quickly and I always
01:40:03
loved working with drakey um he he had
01:40:08
he had an amazing turn of phrase but he
01:40:11
was so much fun after the games you know
01:40:14
and
01:40:16
uh you know he go down to Christ Church
01:40:18
and he was identified down there as a
01:40:20
Blok could score to try when ockland
01:40:23
took the Shield off them and so he get a
01:40:25
few snils his way and he used to love
01:40:27
winding the can tabs up um so you know
01:40:31
he he was Murray obviously worked a lot
01:40:33
with Murray miad um and and you know to
01:40:37
this day now the guys we we I work with
01:40:39
now they're all they're all good they're
01:40:40
you know and especially the ones who
01:40:42
come on
01:40:44
board who want to learn about not just
01:40:48
um their role but they want to learn
01:40:51
about the industry and and and the and
01:40:53
the technical side of things and you
01:40:56
know we've got a couple guys like that
01:40:57
now James Parsons who's coming recently
01:41:00
and his attitude towards the job's
01:41:01
absolutely fantastic you know um they
01:41:04
don't don't want to just sit there and
01:41:05
give out their opinions they want to
01:41:07
become good
01:41:08
broadcasters you know they're all good
01:41:10
and and I was trying you know if I can
01:41:12
give them a bit of advice along the way
01:41:13
or a young commentator that I I'll do
01:41:16
that because that's what people did to
01:41:17
me when I was at that stage why why does
01:41:19
why does Maria get such a hard
01:41:21
time well
01:41:24
he's he's brilliant isn't he he
01:41:26
fantastic he's one of the best in the
01:41:28
world um I think some people still see
01:41:30
him as that guy that used to play
01:41:32
halfback for Canterbury yeah the guy
01:41:35
that k k out of a jersey well yeah
01:41:37
whatever I think there's a bit of that
01:41:39
and look I I think and it's the same
01:41:41
with with players now there are certain
01:41:43
players in the All Blacks no matter how
01:41:46
well they play I think some people make
01:41:48
up their mind before the game's even
01:41:50
played that they're going to have a
01:41:51
crack at them they're going to have a go
01:41:52
at them so you know um it's probably the
01:41:56
same with with with commentators as well
01:41:58
but no I I think Mar's fantastic um and
01:42:03
you know I I I love working with them
01:42:06
yeah you came in here for a podcast I
01:42:07
haven't released it yet but yeah we end
01:42:09
up sitting here for the best part of
01:42:10
three hours he was so generous with his
01:42:12
time and such a such a great story tell
01:42:14
it is yeah because you know before rugby
01:42:17
went professional he was working on the
01:42:19
chain at the matota freezing works and
01:42:22
you know look at what he's done with his
01:42:24
life he's lived around the world he's
01:42:26
got a fantastic
01:42:28
family um and you know he's made a real
01:42:32
name for himself after his career doing
01:42:36
you know and he's very good at it and
01:42:38
you know he's a guy who's still you know
01:42:41
trying to you know improve himself and
01:42:43
that so you know I mean there there are
01:42:45
lots of stories like that but yeah I've
01:42:46
got a got a great regard for him so um
01:42:50
if the All Blacks lose but you totally
01:42:52
nail your job like you know you give
01:42:54
yourself a 10 out of 10 are you do you
01:42:56
go home happy or neutral or sad well I'm
01:42:59
never going to give myself a 10 out of
01:43:01
10 um should I said right you're that
01:43:03
hard on yourself oh yeah you always find
01:43:05
something
01:43:06
to probably that's disappointing I I can
01:43:08
see a lot of like a lot of a lot of
01:43:10
myself in you but I'd like to think like
01:43:11
another 14 years by the time I'm the
01:43:13
same age as you I would have like
01:43:14
chilled out a little bit oh yeah I
01:43:16
suppose yeah I suppose you get to the
01:43:18
end of it and you think yeah it's not
01:43:20
the end of the world you know um but if
01:43:24
the All Blacks lose look it's not the
01:43:26
end of the world and again I think as
01:43:29
you get older and you deal with some of
01:43:31
life's sort of challenges and ups and
01:43:33
downs you you know you probably get
01:43:36
better at reminding yourself that it is
01:43:38
Sport it is a game I'm not going to say
01:43:42
just it's not not I'm not going to say
01:43:45
it's just sport it's just a again cuz to
01:43:47
a lot of people it is important and it's
01:43:50
a fantastic source of entertainment it
01:43:52
GES people are focus and you know you
01:43:54
look at the you know the football clubs
01:43:57
in the UK the the the support that they
01:44:00
get from the community Often by you know
01:44:02
Working Class People you know following
01:44:04
their football club it it is more it's
01:44:07
really important to to them but I think
01:44:11
it is Sport and it's it's not life or
01:44:16
death uh and it's not lifethreatening
01:44:20
and you know just try and enjoy it
01:44:23
did did um your prostate cancer
01:44:26
diagnosis you know help you you know
01:44:29
reach that sort of uh well it with or is
01:44:31
it just age you prioritize what's
01:44:34
important in your life for sure and the
01:44:36
outcome of a sporting contest I mean
01:44:39
look if if the All Blacks play in one of
01:44:41
the you know I've seen them you know
01:44:43
sometimes the greatest test match one of
01:44:45
the greatest test matches they'll ever
01:44:47
play and they lose by one point and it's
01:44:49
been a fantastic game what's more
01:44:51
important to me it's the fact that
01:44:53
there's been a fantastic test match and
01:44:55
I've been to so many of them where
01:44:56
they've won by one point and our
01:44:58
opposition you know like I remember one
01:45:01
you were in South Africa and we all went
01:45:02
round to Matthew Pius the South African
01:45:04
commentator in Cape Town he's a good
01:45:06
friend of mine went round to his place
01:45:08
and I'm sure he would have been
01:45:09
disappointed at the outcome but the
01:45:11
theme of the night was wow what a great
01:45:12
game let's you know enjoy it for for
01:45:15
what it was and I think we we do lose
01:45:17
sight of that a bit and I think it's a
01:45:19
problem right through sport a bit and I
01:45:21
you know obviously my daughter being
01:45:23
active in
01:45:24
sport you know I've seen it although
01:45:27
it's been pretty good um in in the
01:45:30
sports that she's played but I I see it
01:45:32
you know that some of the Rugby teams my
01:45:34
mates boys play for coaches it's all
01:45:37
about
01:45:38
winning and yeah winning is important
01:45:41
but is it more important than a kid
01:45:45
enjoying himself to the point that
01:45:47
they'll come back and play next
01:45:49
year is it more important than a kid who
01:45:53
didn't enjoy it and decides to go and
01:45:54
play another sport because you know I've
01:45:57
been involved managing a few teams of
01:45:59
net ball and even coached a bit and and
01:46:02
and cricket and that and and to me a
01:46:05
successful
01:46:06
year is just as much about every single
01:46:10
player on that team wanting to come back
01:46:12
and play next season because at at 9 or
01:46:15
10 or
01:46:17
12 you know it's it's about their
01:46:19
well-being it's about them being active
01:46:21
it's about the social side of it being
01:46:24
part of a group a a team learning how to
01:46:26
develop those and improve themselves as
01:46:29
players you know to me at the Young ages
01:46:33
that that's far more important than the
01:46:34
result and people say oh we're getting
01:46:36
soft because you know winning isn't
01:46:38
everything well I'm sorry we we might be
01:46:42
getting soft
01:46:44
but you know if kids are leaving sport
01:46:47
because the coach yells at them when
01:46:49
they lose or goes crook at them um
01:46:53
then that's really bad you know because
01:46:57
what are kids if the kids aren't playing
01:46:59
sport what are they going to be doing so
01:47:01
I think particularly the young that's
01:47:03
the one thing I and I get I get annoyed
01:47:05
when I go to watch games you know I've
01:47:07
been to you know see kids playing and
01:47:10
you know I know at the netball in the
01:47:12
end they just said parents aren't
01:47:13
allowed to say every anything or if you
01:47:17
do say it has to be positive and if it's
01:47:20
not positive they'll come down on you
01:47:21
like a ton of bricks
01:47:23
and it's a shame that we have to
01:47:24
legislate for that but if if if if if
01:47:27
people can't be you know can't be
01:47:30
trusted trusted yeah
01:47:32
exactly it's about you know and one of
01:47:35
the things I always say um I used to
01:47:37
have this little not a code of conduct
01:47:39
but a little message I used to send out
01:47:41
to parents and part of it was stuff I
01:47:43
nicked from a column that Peter
01:47:44
Fitzsimons had written in the Sydney
01:47:46
Morning Herald one of the most important
01:47:48
things is when
01:47:49
you're um at your kids sports game learn
01:47:54
the names of the other kids in the team
01:47:56
so that you can encourage
01:47:58
them don't just shout out to your own
01:48:01
kid because you know they'll they'll
01:48:04
just turn off to it in the
01:48:06
end support or praise from another
01:48:09
parent seems to resonate more with kids
01:48:12
so do that you know um and and just you
01:48:15
know try and remember to keep keep the
01:48:17
messaging positive encourage kids
01:48:20
because as I say the most important
01:48:23
thing is that we we stop this drop off
01:48:26
that we get all the time and I've seen
01:48:28
it at school where the the the school
01:48:30
that my daughter goes to the number of
01:48:32
netball teams that they get get at
01:48:34
certain age groups they drop off every
01:48:36
year as kids lose interest in the sport
01:48:39
and that's not a good thing sh if you're
01:48:41
if you're a parent that's on the
01:48:42
sideline and you're seeing the Red Mist
01:48:44
that's embarrassing right yeah and I
01:48:46
mean it even gets to the point where you
01:48:48
know you hear of things getting a bit
01:48:50
physical but you know a friend of mine
01:48:53
is boys in a first 15 and one of the
01:48:57
fathers just only ever yielded out stuff
01:48:59
at his own kid in the end someone
01:49:01
actually told him one of the other his
01:49:02
mates said mate will you just give it a
01:49:04
rest you know there's 14 other people on
01:49:06
us yeah yeah TJ this has been bloody
01:49:09
great there's um mate there's so many so
01:49:11
many notes to we haven't talked about
01:49:13
the three Olympic Games the three
01:49:15
Commonwealth Games the four wimon oh um
01:49:18
uh they might have to wait for another
01:49:19
time yeah um oh one question about the
01:49:23
um the Olympics how like how do you how
01:49:25
do you commentate sports that you that
01:49:26
you don't really know anything about
01:49:27
like say POV or equestrian I did those
01:49:30
yeah they asked me to go in and um do
01:49:33
those because the some of the
01:49:35
preliminary competitions they come
01:49:37
without uh host broadcast to
01:49:39
commentary and so you just try and learn
01:49:43
as much as you can about the format and
01:49:47
just little things you know that you
01:49:48
might you know about the athletes or
01:49:50
something like that um but I did
01:49:52
equestrian at the London Olympics and I
01:49:55
loved that um I'd done a bit of it while
01:49:58
I was in the UK and God they were a
01:50:01
great set to be around that was back in
01:50:03
the Heyday of Mike Mark Todd and bl Tate
01:50:06
Charisma yeah well it was more it was
01:50:09
just a bit after Charisma but um blly
01:50:13
had a horse called Messiah they won the
01:50:15
two goals at the world Champs in
01:50:17
stockhome and I was there and I still
01:50:18
think that is probably one of the most
01:50:20
perfectly executed sporting campaigns
01:50:22
that I've ever seen and then they go to
01:50:24
the Olympics and everything went wrong
01:50:26
that's the sort of sport that that is
01:50:28
but I did yeah did I put up my hand to
01:50:29
do the equ at London um loves the
01:50:32
challenge but I don't ever profess to to
01:50:35
talk about the technical side of things
01:50:37
but if you can tell um a little story
01:50:41
about you know one of the riders or the
01:50:44
horse or whatever like that you know it
01:50:46
was it was a challenge it was a lot of
01:50:48
fun for sure yeah so I speaking of um
01:50:51
Mark Todd I read that there are three
01:50:54
standout career interviews for you we
01:50:55
can probably end on this um John Walker
01:50:57
at the 1990 Commonwealth Games uh Mark
01:51:00
TI after his horse died and the old
01:51:03
blacks after the 2007 World Cup loss
01:51:05
yeah those were three for all the wrong
01:51:07
reasons yeah yeah why so John Walker
01:51:09
first of all at the so he fell in the
01:51:11
final of the 1500 meters so this must
01:51:15
have been the tail end of his career it
01:51:16
was right at the end and he kept himself
01:51:19
going and he'd worked really hard um
01:51:22
this was a smart and the backstory is
01:51:25
that by that stage i' I'd come back from
01:51:27
England to work on that and I'd got to
01:51:29
know Susan and John you know Susan devoy
01:51:31
John Oakley your husband pretty well and
01:51:33
we'd been out at dinner one night and
01:51:35
Susan said to me why is it you you
01:51:37
always ask people how they feel at the
01:51:39
end of a game don't it's a stupid
01:51:41
question don't know how do you think I
01:51:42
feel I've just lost or something like
01:51:44
that so I had it in my head and that
01:51:47
that I wouldn't ask ever ask that
01:51:49
question so what happened is I i' done
01:51:51
an interview with John after I think the
01:51:53
um the Heats or the semi-final or
01:51:55
something goes out and early in the
01:51:58
final there's this gawky Australian guy
01:52:00
called Pat scl and he's all arms and
01:52:02
legs and there was a tangle and next
01:52:03
thing John Walker our you know our
01:52:06
greatest middle distance Runner of the
01:52:08
of the generation is down on the track
01:52:11
um guy I idolized as a teenager and it
01:52:15
was almost as if time stopped as he sort
01:52:18
of got himself slowly back to his feet
01:52:20
in the pack he chased after the pack and
01:52:22
you know he he ended up finishing I I
01:52:25
can't remember where he got but he was
01:52:26
back in the in the pack out of the
01:52:28
medals and I you know we just thinking
01:52:30
oh God this is this is awful and then
01:52:32
suddenly I look up and I'm standing down
01:52:34
there in the mix Zone which was my job
01:52:35
John McBeth and Dick qu were upstairs
01:52:37
doing the commentary I'm in the
01:52:38
interview Zone and John Walker is coming
01:52:41
straight at me he sees me there with the
01:52:44
microphone never mind the TV people that
01:52:47
you know he's come straight to me cuz he
01:52:48
remembered talking to me the day before
01:52:50
and he's got steam coming out of his
01:52:52
ears
01:52:53
and I'm just thinking don't ask him how
01:52:54
he feels don't ask him how he feels cuz
01:52:57
that's what Susan said you know and I
01:52:59
get up there and I start burbling away
01:53:02
and and I it came out I said and I said
01:53:05
how how do you how are you feeling right
01:53:07
now and he said well how would you feel
01:53:09
if you fell over in front of 366,000
01:53:11
people and off he went he said I've
01:53:14
trained harder for this than I've ever
01:53:15
trained before you know scam he decked
01:53:18
more Runners than everyone and he just
01:53:20
absolutely vented this interview and I
01:53:25
got back to work and people say oh great
01:53:27
interview with Walker and the first
01:53:28
person he said I said I'll piss off you
01:53:30
know me thinking they were being smart
01:53:33
um then the boss said great interview
01:53:34
with Walker and I said well you do it
01:53:36
next time thinking again and he said no
01:53:39
that's what people wanted to know how he
01:53:42
felt so it's actually not a bad question
01:53:44
it's just you've got different ways of
01:53:47
asking it but that's all people would
01:53:48
want to know in that in that
01:53:49
circumstance so that was that um Mark
01:53:53
yeah that was at badminton and his horse
01:53:55
died and it was all it was a horse that
01:53:59
uh called face the
01:54:01
music would have won the Olympic gold
01:54:04
medal no doubt about I think but it
01:54:06
slipped and had to be put down and I
01:54:09
didn't want to go and talk to him but
01:54:11
someone said ol marks one of the media
01:54:12
people at badmington and I was an event
01:54:15
I used to love going to every year the
01:54:18
Bonton horse trials until that moment
01:54:21
and I thought oh God I I suppose I I'm
01:54:24
here if he's willing to talk I better go
01:54:27
and talk to him and that that was
01:54:30
awful but you know that was just part of
01:54:33
the you know one of those jobs that you
01:54:34
had to do what awful just cuz you're
01:54:36
dealing with someone in the thick of
01:54:37
their gr because yeah absolutely because
01:54:40
they build such a a relationship with
01:54:43
those horses they have to and and you
01:54:46
know people can say what they like about
01:54:48
uh equestrian Sports and racing you know
01:54:50
Mark Todd just the greatest all around
01:54:53
horseman in the world's ever known and
01:54:55
and cared deeply you know no one ever
01:54:58
accused him of brutality or anything to
01:55:01
to his horses um and so that was hard
01:55:04
and and you feel like a bit of a [ __ ]
01:55:06
really you you kind of invading
01:55:09
someone's grief in this moment but you
01:55:12
know it was just one of those things
01:55:14
where I felt that the job demanded that
01:55:16
I that i' do it and then after the 2007
01:55:20
World Cup oh God you was why is that
01:55:22
such so we um throughout your entire
01:55:25
career we hadn't we won an ' 87 yeah
01:55:28
which I'm guessing was the early stage
01:55:29
of your career but we we hadn't won
01:55:30
since then why was that one um a stand
01:55:32
out loss yeah know I the again the
01:55:36
backstory and I'm sorry if I'm waffling
01:55:39
but I the morning of that test match I'm
01:55:41
in
01:55:42
Cardiff um we didn't have the rights for
01:55:46
that sky but I was over there covering
01:55:48
um all the you know the the news side of
01:55:51
it and putting stuff into our programs
01:55:52
back here and Hamish France who was the
01:55:55
producer that I was working with
01:55:58
Saturday morning C was awful you know
01:56:00
cuz at the town just at Friday night
01:56:02
just Place goes mad and there were rugby
01:56:05
fans around and all the mess from the
01:56:08
Friday night and stuff in the streets
01:56:10
and I and it was all a bit too much and
01:56:12
I said to Moshi Kon let's go for a drive
01:56:14
so he jumped in the car and we drove up
01:56:16
the Ronda Valley one of the famous Welsh
01:56:18
valleys and we ended up in a little town
01:56:21
called AB
01:56:23
and if anyone watched the crown they
01:56:25
would have seen the episode where um the
01:56:27
big slag Heap from a coal mine had
01:56:30
collapsed and come down the hill and
01:56:32
buried a village and and buried the the
01:56:35
local school and I don't know how but we
01:56:37
just ended up in this place and we went
01:56:40
we were walking through the the shrine
01:56:42
of remembrance you know you think about
01:56:43
a whole scool of these precious young
01:56:45
lives that had been lost and I think
01:56:47
it's the saddest place in the world we
01:56:49
just happen to be and I said to Moshi I
01:56:51
said you know what mate the All Blacks
01:56:53
lose tonight people will use words like
01:56:55
tragedy and disaster and nothing of the
01:56:57
sort not compared to this and sure
01:57:01
enough you know they lost and it wasn't
01:57:04
so much the fact that they lost I just
01:57:08
thought here we go again we're going to
01:57:10
go through the whole thing that happened
01:57:12
in 2003 in 1999 all the recriminations
01:57:15
the public going ballistic and John Hart
01:57:18
having his horse spat on and you know
01:57:21
people going mad on talk back radio and
01:57:24
decks you know I got to say a lot of
01:57:26
regard for decks but he did a bit of an
01:57:28
about turn on Henry he was pretty hard
01:57:30
on them and that and I just knew that
01:57:32
all of that um was going to happen and I
01:57:36
think that's you know I sort of thought
01:57:38
oh jeez going to have to deal with all
01:57:39
that again so with that in mind had to
01:57:41
go out to the team Hotel because we
01:57:43
didn't have accreditation we weren't
01:57:45
allowed to interview them at the ground
01:57:46
and so you go out and the you go out to
01:57:48
the team hotel and they're coming in and
01:57:50
you know I remember they were just
01:57:53
coming in and dribs and drabs the
01:57:54
players and a lot of them were in tears
01:57:57
that tears a disappointment but a lot of
01:58:00
them were genuinely already worried
01:58:03
about what the reception was going to be
01:58:05
like when they came back to New Zealand
01:58:07
and I just remember thinking God that
01:58:09
that's an awful thing to to contemplate
01:58:11
yeah it's disgraceful well and that's
01:58:14
just the way you know it was and and um
01:58:18
I remember I I interviewed Richie
01:58:22
mcco who who was very brave and T was
01:58:27
broken and he was trying to put on a
01:58:29
brave face but oh my God and I remember
01:58:31
walking outside and I was just about to
01:58:35
go to the car and I saw a figure walking
01:58:36
around it was Byron kellerer and he's
01:58:37
just in tears and I know allly Williams
01:58:40
had walked in and and he was in tears
01:58:42
and I just I thought this this is this
01:58:45
is you know really felt for them so that
01:58:47
was and and so it was great that 2011
01:58:50
watching the final you think oh my God
01:58:51
it's going to happen again Ted Ted was
01:58:53
thinking exactly the same thing you're
01:58:55
right cuz we did that docu we did that
01:58:57
documentary program The Way of the
01:58:58
nation that's where he came out with
01:59:00
that line oh God we're going to go
01:59:01
through this again are we what's it
01:59:02
going to be like this time you know and
01:59:05
he said how hard it had been on his
01:59:07
mother trying to knowing all the abuse
01:59:10
that he was coping so thank goodness we
01:59:12
got through that and then in 2015 of
01:59:14
course we won it best team we've ever
01:59:16
had so we won those two got the monkey
01:59:20
completely off our back and and I think
01:59:22
we've kind of grown up now now we sort
01:59:24
of understand you can't win them all um
01:59:27
yeah yeah yeah on a reflection that 2007
01:59:30
was good in a way like we we kept the
01:59:32
coach we kept the captain it wasn't a
01:59:34
case of throwing up the baby with the
01:59:35
bath water sort of like signal a
01:59:37
maturing of our nation in a way yeah and
01:59:40
it it was tough um because you know the
01:59:44
popular opinion was very much we had
01:59:46
that sack the coach
01:59:48
mentality but they're the three greatest
01:59:50
coaches and probably You' you Fred Allen
01:59:53
would be in there as well he was from a
01:59:55
different era different methods of
01:59:57
coaching and he was very much from the
01:59:58
old rock them up sort of thing but of
02:00:01
the modern era um the best three
02:00:05
coaches you know that we have had
02:00:08
probably three of the greatest coaches
02:00:10
ever and we had them all and and to to
02:00:13
get rid of them I mean let's remember
02:00:15
that in 2003 England won the World Cup
02:00:18
with the same coach that had been
02:00:20
knocked out of the quarterfinal MH in uh
02:00:24
1999 Clive Woodward
02:00:26
mhm um and so yeah it's just as well um
02:00:31
that that that happened and and the rest
02:00:33
as they say is history and I I was so
02:00:36
pleased um you know for for for all
02:00:39
three of them but in particular for Ted
02:00:41
because I had quite a long sort of
02:00:44
relationship with them you know you know
02:00:47
probably but towards the end or after he
02:00:49
finished Beyond just coach comment type
02:00:52
thing and I I was glad that he was able
02:00:56
to find that that pece at the end of it
02:00:58
all you him on the podcast a couple of
02:01:00
months ago and he um he gets quite
02:01:03
emotional talking about the impact they
02:01:04
had on rayn you know he said she didn't
02:01:06
ask for this you know she just married
02:01:08
me and she didn't marry the job and he
02:01:10
goes realistically like if we lost that
02:01:12
final we would have had to leave the
02:01:13
country and we love New Zealand that's
02:01:15
what he yeah that was then he was
02:01:17
thinking about that at the time so we
02:01:19
did this documentary we called it the
02:01:20
weight of the nation because that that's
02:01:22
really what it was and of all the things
02:01:24
that I've done being involved with in
02:01:26
Sky that's the thing I'm the most proud
02:01:29
of because it showcased the work of so
02:01:31
many really gifted people in our our
02:01:35
team you know the the camera work the
02:01:37
sound work U the people who shot the
02:01:39
interviews I did all the interviews for
02:01:41
it um but they were beautifully shot um
02:01:44
you know just the lighting and
02:01:46
everything the editing the sound all of
02:01:49
those things all came together and I
02:01:50
just you know and it was basically them
02:01:52
telling the story and the interview with
02:01:56
Ted we went out to his place and I knew
02:02:00
that it was going to take a while to get
02:02:02
through this and we went right back and
02:02:04
my boss was there Kevin and he couple of
02:02:06
times he said don't forget to ask him
02:02:08
this I'm going don't worry we'll get
02:02:10
there because he started off he was in a
02:02:12
bit of a playful mood and he wanted to
02:02:14
get in plugs for his book and I just had
02:02:15
to say t this isn't about plugging your
02:02:17
book um you'll get you'll get plenty of
02:02:20
plugs we did it on re whatever but so
02:02:23
anyway and it built the interview you
02:02:27
know the discussion built and he you
02:02:28
know he gone back to what it was like in
02:02:30
the dressing room in Cardiff and the
02:02:32
players with their heads facing the
02:02:35
inside of their cubicles because they
02:02:37
just couldn't bear to look into the
02:02:39
group um and you know the Flack that
02:02:42
went on afterwards and so you you go
02:02:46
through everything that had happened in
02:02:47
the intervening years and suddenly in
02:02:49
the last 10 minutes of the World Cup
02:02:52
final and I I I honestly I start to get
02:02:55
a bit emotional about it myself Tom
02:02:57
because you felt like you were back in
02:02:59
the moment and the room had just gone
02:03:02
like the feeling in the room is you know
02:03:04
cuz he he starts talking about this and
02:03:07
you know we're going to go through this
02:03:08
again are we what's it going to be like
02:03:10
this time you know what's it going to be
02:03:12
like for rayn cuz boy she had to put up
02:03:14
with a lot and and that and then talking
02:03:17
about what happened at the end and
02:03:20
that's when he mentioned the fact he
02:03:23
this peace came over me and then he
02:03:26
mentioned seeing rayan's face
02:03:29
and he
02:03:31
cracked and you know the old tear stuck
02:03:35
and I look around and the producers got
02:03:38
tears and the makeup artists got tears
02:03:40
and rayin and te yeah it was it was it
02:03:42
was an incredible moment um that and I I
02:03:47
that interview I I rate that as one of
02:03:49
the most meaning memorable things that
02:03:52
I've ever done and I'm just so pleased
02:03:54
that we were able to it was a story with
02:03:56
a happy ending yeah well I think you've
02:03:59
got this um this this this you know very
02:04:01
dry Grizzly Old Coach and just speaking
02:04:05
so lovingly like about his wife it's
02:04:08
beautiful and the impact it's had on her
02:04:10
part of it with Ted was always a little
02:04:12
bit of a a a facade and Smithy said
02:04:16
about him too he's a bit like a a Kuma
02:04:18
he's a bit sort of wrinkly on the
02:04:20
outside and that soft and sweet in in
02:04:23
the middle and that was him you know he
02:04:25
was a he was a school teacher yeah it
02:04:27
shows yeah um but you know they loved
02:04:31
him and none of the players wanted to
02:04:34
get shot of him even the guys that had
02:04:36
played with Robbie at the
02:04:37
Crusaders they they they wanted Ted back
02:04:41
and the thing is we had leaders on that
02:04:42
team you know the likes of Richie mccor
02:04:45
and Co who would make that well known to
02:04:48
the people making the decision and and
02:04:50
in the end much as I
02:04:52
Robbie you know we're about the same age
02:04:54
Robbie and I um and I had always had a
02:04:56
good relationship with him but that was
02:04:59
the right they made a really good
02:05:01
decision they don't always get it right
02:05:02
but boy they got that one right well
02:05:04
hindsight would suggest they did yeah
02:05:06
yeah hey TJ this has been amazing thank
02:05:08
you so much for being so generous with
02:05:10
your time and your stories well look
02:05:12
thanks very much as I say you know for
02:05:14
the opportunity to get the message out
02:05:16
about the you know the the prostate
02:05:18
cancer and that but it's been yeah it's
02:05:19
been lovely talking to you mate yeah
02:05:21
yeah has has it been reflecting on um
02:05:24
some of these memories of um an epic
02:05:26
career well you know as I you know as
02:05:28
you kindly mentioned Gold Card age and
02:05:31
so I I know that I'm not going to be in
02:05:33
this job forever I hopefully got a
02:05:36
another you know few years in me um
02:05:38
there's a couple of things I'd still
02:05:39
like to do um which is oh I don't know I
02:05:43
just I'm there's a World Cup in
02:05:45
Australia
02:05:46
maybe that um there's the new um you
02:05:51
know know um this is new rugby
02:05:53
Championship that they they're working
02:05:54
on there's a few things uh I I wouldn't
02:05:57
I wouldn't say there's a definite
02:05:59
objective there but
02:06:01
um got to the point now where you know
02:06:05
it's it is nice to reflect because you
02:06:08
do spend so much of your time in this
02:06:10
job looking to you know it's all always
02:06:13
about the next one yeah trying to get it
02:06:16
right the next time you know hopefully
02:06:18
it's a good game the next time and and
02:06:20
perhaps it's something that don't do
02:06:23
enough to sit back and think it's fun to
02:06:25
talk about it yeah do you count your
02:06:27
tests do you know how many tests you I
02:06:29
got no idea I know NBO does and that's
02:06:32
that's you know that's something he you
02:06:34
know he I I don't know I never thought
02:06:36
I'd end up doing that many um I suppose
02:06:38
I've probably done a 100 or so I
02:06:40
wouldn't know I'll give the man a cap
02:06:43
yeah I don't know but but um you know it
02:06:45
just it just sort of
02:06:47
never occurred to me that much um I just
02:06:52
you know just I just love what I'm doing
02:06:54
and I I've always sort of thought you
02:06:55
know it's all about the the next one
02:06:57
yeah well you and it's you very good at
02:06:59
it and New Zealand's very lucky to have
02:07:01
you so thank you for everything you've
02:07:02
done well look I you know the last thing
02:07:05
I would say is that I'm you know I've
02:07:08
said how fortunate I am we have a legacy
02:07:10
in this country and obviously Grant this
02:07:11
but who I've worked with for years world
02:07:14
class absolutely fantastic you know
02:07:17
Keith Quinn but but you know people like
02:07:20
um you I mentioned um Pete Mont gomy and
02:07:22
we've got some really great you know
02:07:24
younger ones coming along you know Ricky
02:07:25
is smashing the glass ceiling when it
02:07:28
comes to you know commentator as a as a
02:07:30
as a a woman as a commentator I you know
02:07:34
I'm I'm just fortunate and I feel
02:07:36
honored to be part of just that line of
02:07:40
you know that that story really wouldn't
02:07:42
expect any other ending from you
02:07:44
deflecting the praise to others classic
02:07:47
DJ hey thanks mate you're a great New
02:07:49
Zealander and it's been I can't believe
02:07:51
we haven't met it's awesome to meet you
02:07:52
yeah you too
