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hey Runners only with dime Harley
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Runners only with dom Harvey and the
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relatively reclusive and embroidery
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g'day mate Dom how are you fantastic
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thank you so much for coming over
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um this was organized through your
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girlfriend Libby um you you're a shocker
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on social media so I'll DM you and then
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a week later you'll get back to me and
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yeah but she made this happen overnight
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yeah she did well about 10 minutes
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actually yeah phenomenal yeah you're
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under the thumb I don't spend a lot of
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time on the uh on the socials an
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infrequent visitor yeah well I
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appreciate you being here Adam Brewery
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first ever Maori to represent New
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Zealand in cricket retired with 204 test
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dismissals which I believe is still a
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New Zealand record uh no I think I think
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BJ Watling snuck past me a few years ago
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I think I'm not 100 sure I don't follow
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that stuff that closely another record
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that still stands highest one day
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international Innings without scoring a
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boundary that was 96 runs against India
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and that'll never be broken nobody could
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play that badly for that long that
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represents a lot of running which is
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good we'll get to that it's a running
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theme podcast
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um also the only test cricketer to ever
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reach the summit of Mount Everest
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yeah that might um yeah I'll be curious
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to see if any other cricketer decides
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that that's a good idea probably not so
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so what is what is your relationship
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with running we mentioned before that 96
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um in 1994 against India which was made
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up of singles and twos and maybe a three
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uh threes might have been a few but
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there's a lot of ones and twos yeah um
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yes I I love running and still do but
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I'm a bit limited these days
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um but that was always the base of my
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cardio I used to run when I was playing
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I would run uh 10ks six days a week and
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about 34 to 36 minutes I think 33 23 was
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my best
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um is that right this isn't the case
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this isn't the case anymore this isn't
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the case of the older I get the better
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jet time yeah that was it that is heaven
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yeah yeah that was flat stick
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um now I can run about uh six K's and I
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do that
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three times a week and that's probably
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about my limit my I tend to pull calf
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muscles if I do if I load it too much
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what's the difference I love it what
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sort of pace now just like four minute
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four minute case at my best four and a
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half's comfortable
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um and you've probably seen me I've got
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a little bit of a circuit past your
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place actually yeah it's a great place
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um that's incredible Pace your 50 52 now
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and can't quite shift like I used to but
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it feels like I'm still going the same
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speed you could still do a sub 25.
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possibly yeah yeah oh how good but I
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enjoy it I like it um well for the
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physical health benefits or the mental
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health benefits and also I like the way
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it feels um I walk most days so I'll do
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uh at least an hour of walking
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um and then probably 45 minutes in the
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gym and then uh if I'm if I'm triple
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crowning I call it I'll then do the 6K
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run on top which I did last night
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um and sometimes I break it and I'll
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walk in gym in the morning and then in
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the afternoon I'll go out for a run for
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you know 30 odd minutes yeah I mean
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physically you're looking and you're
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looking in Great Neck you really are
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probably in better shape now than when I
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played professional sport or close to it
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is that so yeah yeah yeah there's a
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thing like 20 years since you played
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professional as well yeah
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um well I don't have to play anymore so
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I got plenty of time to train yeah right
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and I I heard rumors about you when you
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were playing you you'd often um like
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play a game and then run home yes yeah
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yeah but not for New Zealand though this
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must have been lower levels not enough
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in New Zealand
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um back to the hotel I went for a run
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where I think it was a 1999 test match
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against the West Indies at the basement
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Reserve in Wellington and we we'd field
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it for a very long time
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um and I think there was a couple of
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hours to go it was just after tea I
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think and a beautiful day in Wellington
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and I've been Fielding for a day and a
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bit and I thought I'd just go out for I
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didn't think I'd be batting that day so
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I thought I'd just go out for a bit of a
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run just to loosen up a little bit and
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just clear my head and I went out around
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the base at Oriental Bay and I had my
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little radio on so I could listen to the
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cricket
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um and guess what happened
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I got I got sort of four or five k's
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from the Basin I think I was still my
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normal sort of 10ks and then all of a
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sudden three or four wickets fell I was
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three K's from the Basin and next in
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um oh my God you must have been shedding
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yourself did you get a taxi or I was I
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honked it back and managed to get in
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there scrambled Into The Dressing Room
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everybody was freaking out as to where I
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was obviously who was the coach then 99
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that must have been Steve Rickson right
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um did you get in trouble afterwards
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well no not really but um
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yeah but and then I was batting like 10
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minutes after I got my gear on I was
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still sweating and then somebody got out
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and I'm batting right literally 10
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minutes later
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um how was it how were you even allowed
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to leave the ground I wasn't allowed
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after that right right
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that was the end of that but it's not
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like I was going for a beer right I was
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going out for a job yeah yeah yeah well
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um oh that's incredible uh yeah I I
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found this book in my bookshelf
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yesterday I haven't seen that for a few
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years this is called
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um uh the great Little Cricket signature
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book uh I think this is like 30 years
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old this is um this is just when you
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were beginning to play for new just just
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about to overtake Ian Smith as the the
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Wicket keeper for New Zealand early 90s
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so I thought what we could do right now
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um yeah when was the last time have you
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got a copy of this at home at all no no
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I signed a lot of those back in the day
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but I wouldn't have seen a copy of that
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for 20 years when you see that photo of
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um a young Adam a young fellow yeah yeah
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then you feel at the same time same
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person I'm guessing physically you feel
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the same but uh do you know what Dom
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it's like that was like a different life
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it really was like a different life yeah
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um uh occasionally pick up my
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autobiography and sort of read a page or
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two out of that which is quite
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embarrassing
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um actually Libby my partner just
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emailed me this morning and said have
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you got a copy of this lying around
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because she's been badgering me about
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reading it for a couple of weeks and
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I've just sort of ignored it hoping that
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would go away but she bought a copy of
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it so that's embarrassing um yeah
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amazing uh but yeah it's literally like
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a different life yeah well it is I mean
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it's yeah 30 years ago 30 years ago so
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you're a young guy there at the start of
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your career so I thought what we could
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do right now I'll put the questions to
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you and we'll see what your answer is
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now in comparison to your answer 30
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years ago how does that sound you know
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so this would be fun this will be
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interesting what's your nickname AP
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oh yeah it was Maverick back then yeah
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yeah my Cricket mates and my old friend
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still call me mayor Top Gun reference or
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yeah yeah Martin Crowe gave me that um
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yeah yeah so that was that was Crowe's
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nickname but now everyone just calls me
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AP yeah what's your favorite food
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uh probably fish and steak no longer my
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girlfriend's Kate my girlfriend Kate's
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pasta salad I haven't even passed her
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for a long time are you still you're
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still friends with Kate you still know
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Kate uh haven't seen her for a few years
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but occasionally bump into her yeah
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um my favorite music is
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I listened to a lot of house music
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um
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yeah I've got various DJs who I like
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yeah right can you remember who it was
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back then for a young area it would have
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been the cars or something like that I
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would imagine yeah because Queen Brian
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Adams Cat Stevens yeah
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um my ambition in life is what's your
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impression in life now
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um
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yeah that's an interesting question I
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kind of feel like I've sort of done a
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lot of that I think um you have done a
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lot probably just to be happy
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um I have ambition for my family
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um and our kids yeah kids and um you
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know and close friends I have some
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ambition for them and I enjoy
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celebrating their success less so for me
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now
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um but I do enjoy seeing particularly
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the kids right when they're successful I
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enjoy that a lot I I know that I know
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that's a genuine answer but
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um I still reckon there's a lot for you
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to do and you'll still keep chasing
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those ridiculous goals like climbing
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Everest maybe not as Extreme as that but
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yeah I sort of um starting to get to the
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point now where I did I did Harbor uh
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thoughts of a second crack at K2
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um but I think now that's probably
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that's sort of probably been put to bed
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once and for all
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um but the risk involved or just the
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timings right you know it's a 10-week
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Expedition the risk doesn't worry me so
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much because I know to manage that
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sensibly
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but it's just a big commitment
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emotionally and physically and and sort
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of at that stage of my life where I
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can't disappear yeah for 10 weeks yeah
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um just too selfish and you're too busy
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just doesn't really work with with the
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structure of my life at the moment to be
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honest yeah so your ambition in life
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back then can you remember what it would
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have been no idea to beat Hogan's Father
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Goose that goose is that Hogan that's um
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yeah yeah did you ever beat it as Dad at
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tennis no no and that that Loops back to
00:08:53
a story in France uh where we played on
00:08:56
Craig on Clay um Goose must have been 60
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I was 19 and he ran me around and
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humiliated me and my
00:09:04
um my response to being beaten was sort
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of um yeah was not quite what it could
00:09:09
have been
00:09:10
yeah ass kicked by an elderly man yeah I
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did um
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I got a lesson um back then your other
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ambition in life was to go on tour where
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my phone bill cost less than a thousand
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dollars which I ages this somewhat I
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mean a thousand dollars back then would
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have been considerable now with like
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International roaming you can get like
00:09:28
five bucks a day in most places yeah
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um another one was to be married with
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Children and you've done that a couple
00:09:33
of times done that a few times now A few
00:09:35
a few times
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I have more there yeah you take most of
00:09:39
them off
00:09:40
um my interest include what are your
00:09:42
interest now mountain climbing obviously
00:09:43
yeah mountaineering uh I spent a lot of
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time on the businesses obviously
00:09:48
um do a lot of hiking
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um
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um what else do I do Fitness Sports uh
00:09:55
you know to try to live pretty healthily
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um so I'm quite into Health Fitness
00:10:00
Wellness all that sort of stuff um spend
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a lot of time on that yeah back then it
00:10:04
was a tennis rugby baseball touch on
00:10:06
Sunday mornings with the lads because
00:10:07
you have to run off a hangover
00:10:09
still have to do that occasionally
00:10:12
sleeping in days on the beach getting
00:10:14
crazy with Jamie Hall who's Jamie Hall
00:10:17
uh one of my old Cricket buddies from
00:10:19
from England right
00:10:20
um yeah no the good Summers they were
00:10:23
good Summers yeah is this how does this
00:10:25
feel here are your toes killing are
00:10:27
these good memories no there's good
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memories yeah good memories um the best
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piece of clothing I've ever owned is
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well I'm pretty habitual to be honest
00:10:35
um back then I'm wondering probably
00:10:37
would have been Timberland boots or
00:10:39
something like that I suspect now it's
00:10:42
um more suits and um suits and trainers
00:10:44
probably no back then it was an old blue
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jersey I pinched from Kate
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I actually remember that yeah is that
00:10:50
the one in the photo or no no no no no
00:10:52
no it was a bit older than that but I
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don't remember it
00:10:54
um I would hate to be without
00:10:56
what would it be now for Adam peroy uh
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probably kids and family and friends to
00:11:00
be honest
00:11:01
um who are pretty close group of friends
00:11:02
particularly
00:11:04
um that have built up over 30 years and
00:11:06
those guys have been with me the whole
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way
00:11:09
um and obviously family is pretty
00:11:11
important now yeah yeah I'd agree with
00:11:14
that being um almost the same same age
00:11:16
as you I think um yeah the friends and
00:11:18
the connections you have when you when
00:11:20
you hit 50 it's a reflection of the life
00:11:22
you've had up to that point yeah I think
00:11:24
so and I think um certainly in my case
00:11:26
those guys have been with me through all
00:11:28
of the good stuff and the bad and um
00:11:31
yeah I would hate to think that they
00:11:34
weren't around anymore yeah
00:11:36
um back then um I'd hate to be without
00:11:37
my Game Boy
00:11:40
Kate a sense of humor and my green jeans
00:11:43
okay Shrek along with the green jeans
00:11:46
well I remember rightly that was sort of
00:11:49
it was a colored Jean period there were
00:11:51
Red Green
00:11:53
I don't know if I was ambitious enough
00:11:54
to try white but there was all sorts of
00:11:56
colors yeah
00:11:57
um she dates that considerably there's
00:11:59
an answer here which um you you you
00:12:02
would never dream of saying now you'd be
00:12:04
canceled for this
00:12:06
um if I wasn't me I would like to be no
00:12:09
idea who would have been for Adam
00:12:11
Ferrari now though is it if you learned
00:12:13
yourself
00:12:14
yeah that's a funny question because I
00:12:16
kind of quite like being yeah that's
00:12:18
cool that's a good leave it there that's
00:12:19
a great answer yeah back then
00:12:21
um if it wasn't me I'd like to be a flow
00:12:23
on the wall and Elle macpherson's
00:12:24
bathroom
00:12:27
well it certainly dates it doesn't it
00:12:29
yeah uh the worst job I ever had was
00:12:32
what would it be now
00:12:34
uh fool what do I used to do I painted
00:12:37
fences in the seven form
00:12:38
um for a living that was pretty brutal
00:12:41
um a little bit from where from your
00:12:42
perspective now as a 52 year old man
00:12:44
worst job ever
00:12:45
um
00:12:47
yeah tough question actually
00:12:49
um
00:12:50
I kind of quite like working yeah um and
00:12:53
I think the work ethic that I was taught
00:12:54
in the cricket side particularly has
00:12:57
been a real asset you know like
00:12:59
the more so that the culture in that
00:13:01
team was the more senior you got the
00:13:03
more you sort of pitched in and helped
00:13:04
out yeah
00:13:05
um and so I learned to do all the [ __ ]
00:13:07
jobs you know at the end of you know I
00:13:09
think I'd played three 400 games by the
00:13:11
end of my career I was still picking up
00:13:12
cones at the end of practice yeah
00:13:14
um and that I think that work ethic and
00:13:16
that culture sort of stayed with me so I
00:13:18
typically you know I'd clean up the
00:13:21
dishes I'd do all that stuff right um
00:13:23
yes so yeah because I read a book um
00:13:26
recently called Legacy which is about
00:13:28
the uh the All Blacks and they they talk
00:13:30
about that in this book and what makes
00:13:32
the all black so successful and there's
00:13:33
a thing like no [ __ ] policy and
00:13:35
yeah there's even the most senior
00:13:36
players will sweep the sheds afterwards
00:13:37
so the black caps have been doing that
00:13:39
for decades decades yeah and that was
00:13:42
one of the things Steve richkin Steve
00:13:43
Rickson and John Graham introduced and
00:13:45
it really stuck with me even now in the
00:13:46
businesses I never ask anybody
00:13:49
um to do anything that I wouldn't do
00:13:50
myself because I think in terms of
00:13:52
leadership you know it's quite a good
00:13:54
way to connect with people um if they
00:13:56
see you on the tools all of a sudden
00:13:58
there's a there's a common Bond so yeah
00:14:00
I do all the [ __ ] jobs mate yeah oh
00:14:02
that's good well back then uh the worst
00:14:04
job you've had was um a hero or a paper
00:14:06
run when you were nine which you were
00:14:07
fired for for being late yeah yeah that
00:14:09
was brutal it was sort of 5 30 a.m
00:14:11
starts not great for a for 11 bucks a
00:14:14
week or whatever it was 11.40 I used to
00:14:16
get I did 108 papers
00:14:19
um your earliest memory
00:14:20
what's the earliest thing you can
00:14:22
remember now
00:14:23
um
00:14:26
I remember
00:14:27
um
00:14:28
first day of school so as a
00:14:30
five-year-old
00:14:31
um you remember that pretty vividly
00:14:34
um we were living out in pakuranga they
00:14:35
went to a primary school called
00:14:37
wakaranga and farm Cove so yeah I
00:14:38
remember getting myself to school first
00:14:40
day terrified so it's probably the
00:14:42
earliest I think it's funny it's such a
00:14:45
vivid memory yeah yeah back then you
00:14:47
said um running around Stark naked
00:14:49
covered in finger paint wearing a blue
00:14:50
cape and pretending to be Superman oh
00:14:52
yeah I was 17. just kidding I was three
00:14:55
yeah that was when we lived in Australia
00:14:58
yeah I do remember that too actually and
00:15:00
uh my most embarrassing moment was what
00:15:02
would it be oh [ __ ] there's been a few
00:15:05
um they're quite difficult to pinpoint
00:15:07
um
00:15:08
I think like with a bit of maturity you
00:15:10
look back at all sorts of different
00:15:11
occasions where you've just made a bit
00:15:13
of a tit of yourself
00:15:14
um so it's hard to pick out one but this
00:15:16
number yeah
00:15:18
um the sports stuff didn't I don't
00:15:21
really find that embarrassing I think
00:15:22
more your own sort of the way you've
00:15:24
behaved personally
00:15:26
um I find it every now and then when
00:15:28
this is pretty embarrassing yeah sorry
00:15:31
and you have a bit of a window into how
00:15:34
immature you were um at a time when you
00:15:37
thought you were quite mature that
00:15:39
although it's pretty embarrassing mate
00:15:40
well I think that's the exciting thing
00:15:42
about life though I've sort of realized
00:15:44
the older I get the less I actually know
00:15:45
about [ __ ] and the more you're learning
00:15:47
and the more you're evolving and the
00:15:48
more you're changing and I think in
00:15:49
terms of growing up you know like um you
00:15:51
know as a young man you get to sort of
00:15:53
18 or 20 and you think you're all done
00:15:54
right which is just like looking back at
00:15:57
that it's just it's ridiculous
00:15:59
um oh yeah when I was that age I I would
00:16:01
think being 50 is not worth living
00:16:03
anymore well you know I was sort of I
00:16:05
couldn't imagine myself there
00:16:07
um didn't think I was going to be
00:16:09
anything like this but I think you know
00:16:10
a little bit of and I've been
00:16:11
embarrassed humiliated all that stuff
00:16:14
and on some of the biggest stages in the
00:16:16
world right and I think that's good for
00:16:18
on terms of like cricket and growing in
00:16:20
terms of growing you up right
00:16:22
um you need all that stuff to turn into
00:16:24
a man
00:16:25
um which is not something you think
00:16:27
about when you're 18 right you just
00:16:28
think it's all going to be pretty
00:16:30
straightforward yeah it doesn't work
00:16:31
like that I I agree I I I
00:16:35
um I used to I still do but it's
00:16:37
something I try and find I used to have
00:16:38
this um terrible fear of failure to the
00:16:40
point where I wouldn't do things if
00:16:42
there's a chance of fail and I've missed
00:16:43
out on so many opportunities in life for
00:16:45
that I suppose Cricket's one of those
00:16:46
Sports where yeah you're out there and
00:16:49
the chance to be embarrassed or
00:16:50
humiliated or fail is so high well you
00:16:53
fail most days right yeah get used to it
00:16:55
yeah who you are
00:16:57
um
00:16:57
particularly with the Wicket keeping
00:16:59
with my standards were but what my
00:17:01
standard was Perfection right
00:17:03
um that was it I did it half a dozen
00:17:05
times I think and Perfection to me was
00:17:07
the perfect day which started in the
00:17:10
morning when I woke up so I would brush
00:17:12
my teeth perfectly when I got on the
00:17:14
lift I would push the button perfectly
00:17:16
how do you how do you how do you push
00:17:17
the button not perfectly straight in the
00:17:19
middle right like actually and I and I
00:17:22
was very focused on you know even when I
00:17:24
was warming up I'd make sure that I did
00:17:26
it as close to perfect as I could and
00:17:28
then for me a clean sheet as we used to
00:17:30
call it was literally to catch every
00:17:32
ball which is impossible right all
00:17:34
somebody has to do is just throw on five
00:17:35
feet over your head and you can't
00:17:37
achieve it so you need when you need
00:17:39
perfect execution and then also you need
00:17:41
luck
00:17:42
and I think I did that in four or five
00:17:45
occasions maybe over the course of my
00:17:47
career
00:17:48
um and that was always and the guys knew
00:17:50
so flim standing next first slip knew
00:17:52
Nathan new
00:17:55
um I remember one day it didn't park we
00:17:57
were four or five balls from the end of
00:17:58
the day and I was on a clean sheet which
00:18:00
was unheard of right
00:18:02
and and as as open to your own perfect
00:18:05
execution as it is to chance and then
00:18:08
one sort of rolled along the ground and
00:18:10
bounced up hit me on my shoulder and
00:18:12
popped off to Flynn and I was my heart
00:18:14
sank and um nobody knew except the guys
00:18:17
next to me and they were as heartbroken
00:18:19
as I was right they were like come on
00:18:21
man keep going keep going
00:18:22
and I think that's you know that's the
00:18:25
the quest doesn't it The elusive quest
00:18:27
for Perfection yeah you're chasing it
00:18:30
like a near impossible thing but is that
00:18:32
is that part of what made you so good I
00:18:34
think so yeah yeah
00:18:36
nothing was ever good enough right I
00:18:39
remember in my in my Cricket career
00:18:40
particularly every single day I would be
00:18:43
disappointed
00:18:45
um because the mistakes that I made I
00:18:48
knew that you know that I was that I
00:18:50
didn't that I was actually good enough
00:18:52
not to make any mistakes it's an
00:18:53
exhorting way to live your life though
00:18:55
exhausting way to spend your career
00:18:56
mentally it was just so draining right
00:18:58
so you you'd wake up in the morning of a
00:19:00
game and would you be excited or would
00:19:02
you be anxious how would you feel or
00:19:04
just super focused uh depends on the
00:19:06
state of mind if I was if I if I'd had a
00:19:08
poor day the day before all I want to do
00:19:10
is get back out on the field and erase
00:19:11
it and until I did that I was mentally
00:19:14
sort of feeling quite out of sorts and
00:19:17
typically not in a great place
00:19:19
um and that mental challenge is enormous
00:19:23
um even now I play in the black Clash
00:19:25
once a year and I'm still the same like
00:19:28
the level of anxiety while I'm
00:19:29
performing
00:19:30
um is that right exactly the same let's
00:19:32
see that's the hot spring spa thing it
00:19:34
was on um it's on January each year so
00:19:36
it's a bunch of old cricketers and uh
00:19:38
old rugby players playing each other it
00:19:40
looks like it looks like a fun thing
00:19:41
it's a great day everyone does take it
00:19:42
kind of seriously though right everyone
00:19:44
takes it very seriously
00:19:46
um and the standards certainly for me
00:19:48
exactly the same right still expect
00:19:49
Perfection well
00:19:52
yes I was going to ask you because um so
00:19:54
you're growing up you're a young fella
00:19:56
um you play softball you're quite good
00:19:57
at that yeah and then you switch to
00:19:59
switch to Cricket and you're you're a
00:20:01
[ __ ] natural you're playing for
00:20:02
Auckland at the age of 17 New Zealand at
00:20:04
the age of 19. I was going to ask how
00:20:06
much of it is natural talent because
00:20:07
obviously there's some of that there but
00:20:08
obviously you worked bloody hard as well
00:20:10
yep yeah no there was a lot of work but
00:20:12
the particularly the Wicker keeping that
00:20:14
was quite
00:20:15
I wouldn't say easy but it was net it's
00:20:18
natural okay
00:20:19
um which is why I can sort of still do
00:20:21
it much the same now
00:20:23
um for small bursts right like I I
00:20:26
probably couldn't keep Wicket in a test
00:20:28
match if I you know like keeping for two
00:20:31
days in a row yeah
00:20:33
squatting down for that long is a 52
00:20:35
year yeah
00:20:37
2020 game it looks kind of the same as
00:20:39
it always did right yeah yeah
00:20:41
um and so that's that's fun to be able
00:20:43
to do that but the physical limitations
00:20:45
are just different right yeah I couldn't
00:20:46
play for five out of seven years for
00:20:48
four weeks like the guys do
00:20:50
um but it still feels exactly the same
00:20:52
literally it's quite natural and I've
00:20:55
spent you know tens and tens of
00:20:57
thousands of hours perfecting my craft
00:21:00
basically
00:21:01
um and that miraculously that doesn't go
00:21:03
away I remember when I played in the
00:21:04
first black Clash game I literally
00:21:07
hadn't had gloves on for almost 20 years
00:21:10
like from the time I walked off the
00:21:11
field in park in 2003 or whenever I
00:21:14
retired to when I got to the game I
00:21:16
hadn't kept working in between
00:21:18
um I hadn't practiced I just put them on
00:21:20
and it was exactly the same I went well
00:21:22
that that's good just muscle memory yeah
00:21:24
yeah yeah exactly there must have been a
00:21:26
little bit of rust there in the
00:21:27
beginning not much
00:21:29
wow yeah not much
00:21:31
um
00:21:32
so and that was I think that's the
00:21:35
culmination of literally tens of
00:21:37
thousands of hours yeah of learning your
00:21:40
Craft
00:21:41
um and also it took a while to perfect
00:21:43
it right it was you know I played
00:21:46
international cricket at 19. it wasn't
00:21:48
until I was probably 28 I think that I'd
00:21:51
sort of finally perfected my craft yet I
00:21:54
thought at 19 I was pretty new
00:21:56
everything done right well it was
00:21:57
definitely good enough to go and play
00:21:59
Tess cricket and look like I belonged
00:22:01
but I was still a long way from where I
00:22:04
ended up
00:22:05
um
00:22:06
yeah so you yeah you see you you became
00:22:09
a New Zealand player at the age of 19.
00:22:11
um taking over from Ian Smith who I'm
00:22:13
guessing as a young fellow growing up
00:22:14
was all you knew in terms of the New
00:22:16
Zealand Wicket keeper because he held
00:22:17
that position for such a long time did
00:22:19
you um were you in awe of him or did you
00:22:21
have this youthful arrogance where you
00:22:23
you know he'd coached me since I was 12
00:22:25
years old right so we were mates right
00:22:27
um and he was very much sort of a mentor
00:22:31
to me and and showed me the ropes
00:22:33
promoted me
00:22:35
um answered a great relationship with
00:22:37
Smithy
00:22:38
um you know he was very very good to me
00:22:40
very very good to me yeah well that's
00:22:42
cool
00:22:43
so you know he retired in um 2002 when
00:22:46
you were 31
00:22:48
um last innings was um opening batsman
00:22:50
with Mark Richardson do you like in
00:22:52
hindsight do you regret retiring then
00:22:53
like you still had a lot to give
00:22:54
Danielle or did you feel like you've
00:22:55
done it all or why did why did you
00:22:57
retire at 31
00:22:58
I just got to that point where I played
00:23:00
for 12 years by that stage I think
00:23:03
um I'd achieved everything that I wanted
00:23:04
to
00:23:05
um and also I was very conscious the
00:23:07
fact that I wanted to move on and do
00:23:09
other things like I never thought that
00:23:10
cricket was going to be my life
00:23:12
um I thought it was always going to be a
00:23:14
really important part of my life but was
00:23:16
never going to be my life and I was just
00:23:18
at that stage where got to the point
00:23:21
where I was
00:23:22
accumulated a fair bit of baggage I
00:23:24
think and it was starting to feel quite
00:23:25
heavy what sort of baggage just being
00:23:28
around just traveling and touring for a
00:23:30
long time I'd literally done everything
00:23:32
in the game
00:23:33
um I think probably the only thing that
00:23:35
was left was to beat Australia in a test
00:23:37
match and that that ambition remains to
00:23:40
this day that never happened for me
00:23:42
um
00:23:44
and I think that's probably the only
00:23:46
thing that I didn't achieve outside of
00:23:48
you know maybe winning a World Cup or
00:23:49
something which was a bit of a stretch
00:23:52
goal back then I think we made the semis
00:23:54
pretty consistently but we probably
00:23:55
weren't quite good enough to get there
00:23:57
um
00:23:58
that was kind of the only things that
00:24:00
sort of eluded me to be honest the rest
00:24:01
of it I'd sort of done and I want to go
00:24:04
on and do different things at that stage
00:24:07
um you know having a family and having a
00:24:08
normal life was quite appealing because
00:24:10
I'd never done that yeah of course and I
00:24:12
was in that sort of no man's land where
00:24:13
I sort of like well either I get out now
00:24:15
and then you know I I'm gonna have to
00:24:18
start a career in business whatever I
00:24:20
choose to do at the bottom again I have
00:24:22
to go pick up cones again that's how it
00:24:24
works
00:24:25
uh and if I don't do it now you know by
00:24:28
the time I'm then I'm sort of stuck here
00:24:30
for another five years
00:24:32
do I really want to do that and sort of
00:24:34
limiting my options in terms of being in
00:24:35
a proper relationship and family and all
00:24:37
that stuff although it was a difficult
00:24:38
decision it took me a few years to get
00:24:40
my head around yeah it wasn't easy and I
00:24:42
I went early and I've never regretted it
00:24:45
because what was what was the money like
00:24:47
through your 20s as a cricketer was
00:24:48
there any money in the game or yeah I
00:24:50
made I was making sort of 200 to 250 I
00:24:54
think
00:24:54
um right through there which back then
00:24:57
was a lot of money 200 250k yeah right
00:25:00
okay
00:25:01
a sportsman back then yeah
00:25:04
but I spent it all um
00:25:06
it just goes I don't know where it goes
00:25:09
I had a really nice life
00:25:12
but I certainly didn't retire from
00:25:14
cricket and then I certainly wasn't
00:25:16
wealthy right yeah yeah and that was the
00:25:19
other thing I was sort of like well I
00:25:20
wouldn't mind having some money one day
00:25:21
and I'm probably not going to get there
00:25:22
doing this
00:25:24
um
00:25:25
so it was a culmination of lots of
00:25:26
different things it took me a long time
00:25:27
to get my head around it it was a
00:25:29
difficult decision but one I've never
00:25:30
regretted but you um I mean you weren't
00:25:33
an idiot though like you had a law
00:25:34
degree you you studied for a law degree
00:25:36
while you're yeah I did two degrees I
00:25:37
did finance and law so in county and
00:25:39
finance first and then I did I did my
00:25:41
law degree on the road with the cricket
00:25:42
team right
00:25:44
um so yeah so you say you you know you
00:25:45
had to start at the bottom of any career
00:25:47
pick out cones but I mean you were you
00:25:48
were well educated what you're in a good
00:25:50
position but I was right you know I went
00:25:52
to um I went to JB wear Goldman Sachs
00:25:55
here in Auckland
00:25:56
um out of cricket and started off in the
00:25:59
Private Client team
00:26:01
um working for a guy called John Cobb um
00:26:03
and I literally made coffee mate
00:26:06
um you know I would start it at the
00:26:07
bottom I managed to survive two
00:26:10
restructurings at Goldman's but I knew I
00:26:13
wasn't going to get through a third one
00:26:15
but if you're making a good coffee and
00:26:17
you're being paid so little they're
00:26:18
probably like oh we didn't hear them on
00:26:21
um there must be um that must be
00:26:23
humbling hey like coming from of us
00:26:25
being on a pedestal on you know the
00:26:28
world cricket stage and starting at the
00:26:29
bottom somewhere else at that age yeah
00:26:31
and again I thought you know that was
00:26:32
part of the ethos that was instilled Us
00:26:34
in the cricket side and it was promoted
00:26:36
strongly by John Graham particularly was
00:26:38
you know you've got a you know you might
00:26:41
be the best in the world but at midnight
00:26:43
the clock resets and you get up the next
00:26:45
day and you want to be the best in the
00:26:46
world again that's no problem you go do
00:26:48
it again yeah and you've got to do it
00:26:49
every day you know your reputation
00:26:51
counts for nothing you've got to get up
00:26:53
every day and do it again and everybody
00:26:54
everybody starts from zero every morning
00:26:56
and I think that taught us a really
00:26:59
strong work ethic and a sense of
00:27:01
humility that you know we were young
00:27:04
guys right in our 20s and we had Egos
00:27:06
and and I had plenty make no mistake
00:27:08
about that
00:27:09
um
00:27:10
my sort of I was trying to think about
00:27:12
it yesterday when I was writing these
00:27:13
questions and I suppose you were sort of
00:27:15
like the Carlos Spencer of cricket but
00:27:17
you you just had a very flattering
00:27:18
comparison
00:27:19
that you were just a precocious talent
00:27:22
and you were good looking and young and
00:27:24
you had this sort of arrogance about you
00:27:26
yeah
00:27:27
um yeah I mean I look back on it now and
00:27:29
it's it's just embarrassing right um but
00:27:32
yeah I think it is you know the wrong
00:27:34
way but you were very good uh well I Had
00:27:36
My Moments certainly
00:27:38
um but I think I look back at the way
00:27:39
that I behaved on numerous occasions
00:27:42
which was just immature right simple as
00:27:44
that um
00:27:47
uh both right but but more so off field
00:27:50
yeah
00:27:51
um on field you know the rules for the
00:27:53
rules and you know you could pretty much
00:27:54
do what you like and I I was always I
00:27:57
was aggressive on on the field and and I
00:27:59
played my part right but I think a lot
00:28:02
of this also is
00:28:03
you know particularly in that
00:28:06
environment I I had a role to play and I
00:28:08
took on this caricature which is not me
00:28:10
right uh I didn't know that at the time
00:28:12
but I was obviously very combat of
00:28:15
Highly aggressive
00:28:17
um and you know a bit of an enforcer on
00:28:20
the field and that was kind of the role
00:28:22
that I needed to play in the team
00:28:25
um and and I'm still now just starting
00:28:28
to understand some of the stuff and deal
00:28:30
with it but you know like I don't get
00:28:32
into conflict situations I don't I don't
00:28:35
have arguments with people I'm not
00:28:37
aggressive and combative I'm a terrible
00:28:39
negotiator you know I mean I don't do
00:28:41
that in our business
00:28:42
um there's plenty of guys who are good
00:28:44
at that I don't because I just give them
00:28:45
to people
00:28:46
um which is exactly the opposite to what
00:28:49
I used to be so I took on this role in
00:28:52
the team and I thought genuinely thought
00:28:53
that's who I was
00:28:54
turns out I'm nothing like that right
00:28:56
and I've learned that over the past 20
00:28:58
years if you think maybe you that that
00:29:02
is who you were at the time and you've
00:29:03
just evolved and shaped and grown as a
00:29:05
person between then absolutely yeah um
00:29:07
and I think in the same way they kind of
00:29:09
grew out of cricket would be how I sort
00:29:11
of described what my decision to retire
00:29:13
at quite a young age I literally just
00:29:15
grew out of it
00:29:16
um I think over the past 20 years I've
00:29:19
probably sort of grown out of that you
00:29:21
know sort of Highly aggressive arrogant
00:29:24
um
00:29:26
um sort of persona that I had and I
00:29:28
think a lot of it was insecurity you
00:29:30
know I didn't have I didn't have any
00:29:31
experience I had Talent ability I had a
00:29:34
really strong work ethic those were my
00:29:36
weapons
00:29:37
um but I was playing against you know
00:29:39
what I did for a living when I
00:29:41
particularly when I was batting high in
00:29:42
the order was I just played against the
00:29:44
best players in the world who were all
00:29:46
five ten years older than me had much
00:29:48
more experience and it was now they look
00:29:50
back on it I never thought about it at
00:29:52
the time it was just a mismatch you know
00:29:54
like me going up when I was batting
00:29:56
three for New Zealand I was 25.
00:29:59
um I wasn't even a specialist batsman
00:30:01
um and all I did was face you know the
00:30:04
15 best Bowlers in in history that's all
00:30:07
I did right I didn't face anybody else I
00:30:08
just face the best
00:30:10
to sort of bridge that Gap you know I
00:30:13
needed to find something and they're all
00:30:15
five years older than me right you know
00:30:17
like when I was facing Wesley macro and
00:30:19
Waco Eunice you know I was 25 they were
00:30:22
in their early 30s they were at the
00:30:23
absolute Peak I was still learning the
00:30:25
game
00:30:27
um it's just a mismatch right and so for
00:30:30
me to be able to beat them and and
00:30:31
compete against them I needed to find
00:30:33
something to bridge the gap it was
00:30:35
arrogance it was probably that you
00:30:39
probably need that to get you through
00:30:39
what else have I got yeah yeah
00:30:42
um were you a sledger yeah were you
00:30:45
you're right behind the wickets
00:30:47
and that was part of my that was part of
00:30:51
my own sort of mental discipline like I
00:30:53
I remember when when I started to lose
00:30:56
concentration I would literally just
00:30:58
pick a scrap with someone to get myself
00:31:00
focused you know I just literally walked
00:31:02
past and clocked the guy or something
00:31:03
yeah
00:31:04
um and then I used to do it deliberately
00:31:07
um and but that was part of me you know
00:31:10
being able to maintain my levels of
00:31:11
performance so was this the time before
00:31:13
there were like microphones on the
00:31:15
stumps I don't have microphones but I
00:31:16
used to I just used to put my phone yeah
00:31:20
yeah now I knew all the tricks right
00:31:22
um yeah so speaking of like facing these
00:31:24
these Bowlers there was um an incident I
00:31:26
found on YouTube uh from 2000 where
00:31:28
Brett Lee the Aussie fast bowler hit you
00:31:30
on there it was a crazy incident yeah so
00:31:32
you get hit on the helmet with like a
00:31:34
bouncer and somehow
00:31:37
undoes your chin strap and the helmet
00:31:39
falls off and hits the wickets and and
00:31:42
you and you get out so that that's done
00:31:44
has done that incident but I I just want
00:31:46
to know from someone that's never been
00:31:47
hit in the head with a cricket one of
00:31:49
the woods clusters Bowlers like what's
00:31:51
this like are you yeah you stunned at
00:31:53
that point oh yeah it's like a
00:31:54
four-story building falling down on top
00:31:55
of it
00:31:57
um yeah like yeah literally that one
00:31:58
there just literally snapped the chin
00:32:00
strap
00:32:01
um and I just remember my head just
00:32:04
vibrating right literally seeing double
00:32:07
um I think it was Mark War who you know
00:32:10
very graciously came up to right behind
00:32:12
me and told me to [ __ ] off
00:32:17
and then pointed which way the stand was
00:32:21
which was quite helpful because I had no
00:32:23
idea yeah wow
00:32:26
you see the clip and it looks like
00:32:27
you're aware of what's going on and
00:32:28
you're sort of standing on the ground
00:32:29
but will you just by willing Dazed and
00:32:31
Confused yeah yeah do they do like
00:32:33
concussion chicks or anything they
00:32:35
didn't back then but I I definitely
00:32:36
ended up with a few sort of mild
00:32:38
concussions no question about that um
00:32:40
and plenty of cuts and scars like all
00:32:42
through my eyebrows and eyes you can
00:32:43
sort of if you have a good close look
00:32:45
there's Fair bit of work up there Oh I
00:32:47
thought they were Botox scales
00:32:48
they're battle wounds um and what are
00:32:51
your um Recollections or or thoughts of
00:32:54
like New Zealand Cricket in the 90s you
00:32:56
know uh ego there was the wheat Were You
00:32:59
There When the weed incident happened I
00:33:01
was on that tour but I actually wasn't
00:33:03
um I'd I'd left uh to go to
00:33:07
do I was in Durban the rest of the team
00:33:09
was in Cape Town I had I had a week off
00:33:11
yeah
00:33:12
Dion Nash I think it was Flem nashy
00:33:16
I don't want to get anybody else trouble
00:33:17
here who wasn't involved um but bygones
00:33:20
it's such a lot of news a couple of
00:33:21
others I forget exactly who they were
00:33:23
this was such a big thing at the time it
00:33:25
was huge it was it was it was and
00:33:26
everybody just assumed I was involved
00:33:28
yeah it's going to be perorian Ken's
00:33:32
must be there I wasn't even in the city
00:33:34
right
00:33:36
so I got tagged for that one but yeah no
00:33:39
I actually to be fair if I was there I
00:33:41
probably would have been yeah yeah well
00:33:43
um there's a great podcast that a couple
00:33:45
of friends of mine do called between two
00:33:46
beers and I've had Dion Nash on and he
00:33:48
talked uh in length about that incident
00:33:50
yeah and like the the backlash and the
00:33:52
treatment for those three guys
00:33:53
afterwards it was just an alarm it like
00:33:56
served legal papers just before playing
00:33:58
a game like shortly after that back in
00:34:00
New Zealand I mean yeah it was all like
00:34:04
I don't know how they had the resilience
00:34:05
or strength to get through it it seems
00:34:07
like it was such a tough time for all
00:34:08
three of them yeah I remember a little
00:34:10
bit about it um
00:34:12
uh you just must have been relieved it
00:34:15
wasn't no it was delighted
00:34:18
thank God for that thank God I wasn't
00:34:20
there because I'm sorry you guys are
00:34:22
going through this but yeah if I had
00:34:24
been there I'm sure I would have been
00:34:25
right in the thick of it right um uh
00:34:27
because we were we were all mates right
00:34:29
like if it was one in all and and that's
00:34:31
that was the ethos of it that was the
00:34:33
culture
00:34:34
um so yeah no I'm pretty sure I think I
00:34:37
deduct a bullet that time and
00:34:40
um what are your um Reflections or
00:34:42
memories of Martin Crowe I know he was
00:34:44
like quite a good friend and mentor of
00:34:45
yours and you never got to be his dad in
00:34:47
tennis he was very very good to me like
00:34:50
um on that first tour at England in in
00:34:52
99 and 89.
00:34:55
um
00:34:56
he sort of took me under my wing like I
00:34:59
was 19 I'm very young 19. the rest of
00:35:01
the team was like a mature black caps
00:35:04
team you know they're all well into
00:35:05
their mid-30s I played my first test
00:35:07
with Sir Richard he was 40.
00:35:10
um I didn't have a lot in common with
00:35:12
those guys right
00:35:13
um and so I was sort of and I didn't
00:35:15
drink
00:35:16
um and in those days the culture was
00:35:18
very much around you know drinking so I
00:35:20
just didn't fit in
00:35:22
um and but Crowe took me under his wing
00:35:25
taught me how to play so he spent a lot
00:35:26
of time in a Nets with me at the end of
00:35:28
the game
00:35:29
um during the during the county games
00:35:31
yeah he was like a senior player and you
00:35:33
were like yeah he was the first Captain
00:35:34
I think and best player in the world
00:35:35
yeah and um why did he do that just
00:35:38
because he saw potential in there you
00:35:40
saw I think he saw a lot of himself in
00:35:42
his early experiences in me and so he
00:35:44
did whatever he could to mitigate it we
00:35:46
became very very close friends
00:35:49
um over a number of years and you know
00:35:52
we had our moments too I disagreed with
00:35:53
them on occasions and so we had a few
00:35:55
blues and you know he'd get popular and
00:35:57
talk to me for three or four months is
00:35:58
that right about what sort of things I
00:36:01
can't remember the exact details of it
00:36:02
now but it was one of those sort of Big
00:36:04
Brother little brother relationships
00:36:05
very much where you know we could have a
00:36:08
genuine disagreement about things and
00:36:09
he'd be you know severely pissed off and
00:36:11
not talk to me for a few months
00:36:13
um and I'd know I was in dog box but
00:36:15
eventually you know we'd sort of Patch
00:36:16
It Up
00:36:17
um isn't that funny the passage of time
00:36:19
isn't it funny so whatever it was it was
00:36:21
probably massive at the time but all
00:36:22
these years passed and it just seems
00:36:24
insignificant whatever it was yeah
00:36:26
absolutely but um you know I think and I
00:36:29
look back very fondly with at those
00:36:31
memories
00:36:32
um Mark great batch was another one who
00:36:35
along with Martin spent a lot of time
00:36:37
with me earlier in my career and was a
00:36:38
you know these guys are my heroes
00:36:40
watching them on TV and all of a sudden
00:36:42
I'm actually in the dress room sitting
00:36:44
right next to them and got to go play
00:36:46
with them um it was a big stretch and
00:36:48
then so to be included and made welcome
00:36:50
by those guys and to develop friendships
00:36:53
Patty and I still mates to this day we
00:36:55
play golf once or twice a year do you
00:36:57
really um I love that guys one of my
00:36:59
favorite cricketers especially when he
00:37:00
was Fielding he was just he was a big
00:37:02
guy but he was so Nimble in the field
00:37:03
wasn't he yeah and aggressive and you
00:37:05
know I just had that that epitome and I
00:37:07
wanted to be like them right I copied
00:37:09
them
00:37:10
um and so those friendships they last a
00:37:12
lifetime and they're still on foot now
00:37:14
yeah Martin Chris no longer with us can
00:37:16
you remember your last interaction with
00:37:18
them or the last time you saw him
00:37:20
um
00:37:21
yeah I can he came to my office just up
00:37:23
the road here on Freeman's Bay
00:37:25
um and I came in and he towards the end
00:37:27
he used to come in quite regularly
00:37:28
probably once every three or four months
00:37:30
and when he was when he was sick yeah
00:37:32
yeah when he was sick and he would just
00:37:34
come in and hang out with us Dion was
00:37:35
sharing the office with me at that stage
00:37:36
with his Triumph and disaster business
00:37:39
um and so we were there there are
00:37:41
occasions when I think Kenzie was in
00:37:43
there as well and Crowley would just
00:37:44
come in for a morning and hang out
00:37:46
um and I remember you know that was sort
00:37:49
of towards the end so that's probably my
00:37:51
most recent memories of them I think
00:37:53
um
00:37:54
yeah very sad that we lost them so early
00:37:56
still a sad day you know um I think I
00:37:59
was in Bali earlier this year and um it
00:38:02
was it was the anniversary of mountain
00:38:05
passing and I I messaged Patty just
00:38:07
saying you know I'm feeling a bit sad
00:38:08
that we lost our mate
00:38:10
um so the guy still felt we all still
00:38:12
feel it it was a big loss for us yeah
00:38:15
um yeah so who are you still mates with
00:38:17
Mark great [ __ ] obviously Dion Nash
00:38:19
Tulsi Patty Dion and I three close
00:38:22
um actually Dion uh Kenzie and Tomah and
00:38:25
I have a sort of a reasonably regular
00:38:28
um Zoom call
00:38:29
um that sort of hopefully fortnightly
00:38:31
but certainly once a month before us all
00:38:33
get together and then I bang into a
00:38:35
whole bunch of the other guys on
00:38:37
occasions we all end up in the celebrity
00:38:39
golf tournaments to pack Trevor Franklin
00:38:41
Paddy Scotty styrus
00:38:44
um all the golfers yeah so catch up with
00:38:47
those guys a couple of times a year
00:38:48
that's normally pretty big night
00:38:50
um and then the black Clash is great
00:38:52
opportunity for us all to get together
00:38:53
the guys around we love that right yeah
00:38:55
um that's really good fun so
00:38:57
those friendships they last a lifetime
00:38:59
right they they really do yeah and I get
00:39:01
the feeling from you you're um a
00:39:03
fiercely um loyal sort of person you
00:39:05
know the sort of person that um
00:39:07
I think I saw this on a lance arms you
00:39:09
know Lance Armstrong the cyclist uh sort
00:39:11
of documentary with him and he talked
00:39:12
about when a [ __ ] hits the fan you have
00:39:14
people that lean in and people that lean
00:39:15
out I feel like you're a sort of person
00:39:17
that leans in
00:39:18
um were you were you leaning in leaning
00:39:21
out or just like standing straight when
00:39:22
Kenzie's been going through his scandals
00:39:24
over the years oh definitely leading in
00:39:26
um
00:39:27
yes now I um
00:39:29
I mean I probably won't talk about my
00:39:31
feelings around how all that went
00:39:32
because it's a it's a really difficult
00:39:34
topic because I've got friends on both
00:39:37
sides like very close friends
00:39:40
um and yes I've got my own views on that
00:39:43
but also
00:39:45
um you know Kenzie's been very good to a
00:39:47
lot of us over the years right
00:39:49
um uh and I sort of yeah no you're right
00:39:52
Dom like I'm fiercely loyal and I think
00:39:54
just because somebody makes a mistake
00:39:56
um
00:39:57
uh you know that doesn't sort of cancel
00:40:00
everything else out that's going on
00:40:02
um and I think that that particular
00:40:04
incident was very very challenging for
00:40:06
the for the black claps for the black um
00:40:08
caps group
00:40:10
um and you know I think it's been
00:40:12
pleasing to see that a bit of time and a
00:40:14
little bit of water under the bridge has
00:40:15
softened what were some pretty intense
00:40:17
feelings yeah and pretty difficult
00:40:19
things for us all to deal with right
00:40:22
um it was not easy and you know trying
00:40:24
to sort of be supportive of everybody
00:40:26
that was involved was was not an easy
00:40:28
thing to do mate yeah
00:40:30
but I think my my feelings to
00:40:33
Christopher
00:40:35
um have always been pretty clear you
00:40:37
know we had a great ride on his
00:40:38
coattails all of us
00:40:40
um and the view was pretty good so yeah
00:40:42
yeah he was an exceptional player I just
00:40:44
knows you called him Christopher do you
00:40:46
call him Christopher no yeah I do on
00:40:48
occasions yeah yeah on occasions it
00:40:50
sounds like he's in trouble normally
00:40:54
all right let's play enough about the
00:40:56
cricket um I'm mindful of the uh the
00:40:58
time we've got here with you today and
00:40:59
there's uh it's been such a like a rich
00:41:02
tapestry of a life and there's so much
00:41:04
to get through but um like there's the
00:41:06
business stuff the personal side of
00:41:07
Edinburgh but the Everest stuff is
00:41:09
something that I'm immensely interested
00:41:10
in so on May 20 20 2011 you um made it
00:41:15
to the summit of Mount Everest and
00:41:16
actually uh I had an interview with you
00:41:18
a few days after that I think back at
00:41:20
base camp on my radio show one of the
00:41:21
worst interviews ever your voice was
00:41:23
gone
00:41:24
like you you had you had very little
00:41:26
voice left but I I appreciated the
00:41:28
opportunity to speak to you and actually
00:41:29
you're the first person and maybe the
00:41:30
only person will ever have on the
00:41:31
podcast that is Summit at Mount Everest
00:41:33
so where where did this come from so you
00:41:35
finished Cricket spend a bit of time in
00:41:37
business you know how do you get into
00:41:38
mountain climbing just a very strange
00:41:41
um turn of events uh my brother-in-law
00:41:45
um just who I hadn't seen for about
00:41:46
eight years just happened to turn out to
00:41:48
be a high altitude guide he was on his
00:41:50
way to Everest gave me a call caught up
00:41:52
with him having sort of lost touch with
00:41:53
them for quite a few years and um
00:41:56
and then when he got back from Everest I
00:41:58
think he guided um for hammocks in 2010
00:42:01
and so when Johnny
00:42:03
um Johnny Davison when he got back from
00:42:06
Everest he you know I didn't have much
00:42:08
to do that winter and he said why don't
00:42:10
you come for a climb with me so we went
00:42:12
down to Queenstown and you know had a
00:42:14
couple of nights um socializing and then
00:42:17
sort of went up into the mountains and
00:42:18
he sort of 101 me we climbing the
00:42:20
remarkables and went out to White Creek
00:42:21
and did some ice climbing and you know
00:42:23
just did the you know the base so this
00:42:25
is your first time with like crampons
00:42:27
first time out um learned how to you
00:42:30
know run a tent and do all that sort of
00:42:31
stuff in the snow and just kind of fell
00:42:33
in love it um and then he sort of said
00:42:35
why don't you climb Everest with me next
00:42:37
year and I said well I've always sort of
00:42:39
wanted to have you yeah had you in the
00:42:41
back sort of but I was scared I was
00:42:43
afraid like I remember when we were in
00:42:45
India we flew past it a couple of times
00:42:47
uh on our way to guahati and it's above
00:42:50
you when you fly past right
00:42:52
um yeah eight thousand something meters
00:42:54
so pretty spectacular and um read all
00:42:57
the books you know Into Thin Air and all
00:42:58
that sort of stuff so I was fascinated
00:43:00
by it but obviously terrified which is
00:43:02
normal
00:43:02
and then all of a sudden here was an
00:43:05
opportunity and a bit of a pathway to
00:43:06
actually do it and I was separated from
00:43:10
Sally at the time and single and sort of
00:43:13
in a bit of a no man's land and
00:43:14
emotionally and quite a good place for
00:43:15
that and so I decided I'd give it a
00:43:17
crack
00:43:18
and so I climbed sort of semi
00:43:20
professionally for about 18 months
00:43:22
learning the ropes basically went to the
00:43:24
Himalaya previously in October of 2010
00:43:28
and climbed another of the 8 000 meter
00:43:30
Peaks called manosloo and that got me
00:43:32
into the swing of the hermex program I
00:43:36
got to meet Woody who's still my
00:43:38
climbing partner to this day Russell
00:43:40
Bryce who runs hammocks and as a legend
00:43:42
an icon particularly on Everest
00:43:45
um you know he sort of Mr Everest and
00:43:47
got a got a bit of a view into the team
00:43:49
and these guys are the best in the world
00:43:51
right so and I immediately felt quite
00:43:54
comfortable in that environment a lot of
00:43:56
it was very familiar the routine of it
00:43:58
was quite somewhat of being in a cricket
00:43:59
team not scarily similar and I hadn't
00:44:03
been involved in that environment for 10
00:44:05
years at that stage like when I finished
00:44:07
playing sport I literally had nothing I
00:44:10
literally walked out of the dressing
00:44:11
room and it was like turning a light
00:44:13
switch off and I had nothing to do with
00:44:16
anybody in cricket for 10 years like
00:44:19
nothing was that necessary on your part
00:44:22
to have like sort of that sort of break
00:44:23
or that sort of break up if you like
00:44:25
yeah I'm not I'm not sure what that was
00:44:26
about but I looked back on it now and it
00:44:28
looks to me like that was a bit of a
00:44:30
trauma response
00:44:31
um
00:44:32
and I'm still sort of trying to figure
00:44:34
some of the stuff out Tom to be honest
00:44:36
because that's not normal right like
00:44:38
there's not normal behavior
00:44:40
such a big part of your life but maybe
00:44:42
you feel necessary to do that
00:44:45
if you had any therapy or anything yeah
00:44:47
oh yeah yeah and does this come up what
00:44:49
did they say about it some of the stuff
00:44:51
that we're sort of trying to figure out
00:44:52
yeah he's still in the process I'm in
00:44:54
the process so I did wait well I have
00:44:55
the once a week on a Wednesday 10 30.
00:44:58
been doing it for two years 18 months
00:45:00
seriously only started sort of when you
00:45:02
were 50-ish yeah yeah why did it take
00:45:05
you so long was it nerves was it fair no
00:45:07
I've always sort of um you know I've had
00:45:09
relationship counseling at various times
00:45:10
over the years obviously
00:45:12
um and then suddenly thought actually
00:45:14
because I always quite enjoyed it it's
00:45:15
quite good to have a professional third
00:45:17
party adjudicator
00:45:19
especially with that taking your side
00:45:21
that's right well that's I mean that's
00:45:23
good I mean I've always sort of
00:45:25
responded quite well to Authority like I
00:45:27
pushed the boundaries a little bit but
00:45:28
when when somebody in Authority tells me
00:45:30
what the rules are I quite like that
00:45:32
yeah so you know you know like I'll go
00:45:34
all the way to the line but I respect
00:45:37
so I found that sort of quite
00:45:39
comfortable
00:45:41
um and then a natural extension of it
00:45:42
was I'd go away and do some work on
00:45:44
myself because I felt like I needed to
00:45:47
um and this sort of stuff came up in
00:45:48
those sessions and it wasn't being
00:45:51
brought up by Anna who looks after me
00:45:53
but um it was stuff that I sort of
00:45:55
started to figure out about myself and
00:45:57
I'd say to listen you know when I
00:45:59
finished playing Cricket this is what
00:46:00
happened
00:46:01
um and I remember saying to one he said
00:46:04
that is not normal
00:46:05
um so yeah we're starting to get into
00:46:07
all that stuff which is great right like
00:46:10
trying to figure out you know the way
00:46:12
that you behaved as a young man like
00:46:15
what the hell was that about
00:46:16
um because it's quite different to the
00:46:17
way I behave now yeah it's fantastic it
00:46:19
just gives you a new perspective and a
00:46:20
new way of looking at things so I really
00:46:22
like it anyway back to the Everest thing
00:46:23
so you how much does it cost to climb to
00:46:26
get them with a good climbing group so
00:46:28
like big money 50 Grand no no it's about
00:46:30
I reckon it's about a hundred
00:46:32
um to go on those you know those five
00:46:34
dollars premium guided Expeditions but
00:46:37
that gives you safety so it's the best
00:46:40
weather forecasting it's the best guides
00:46:41
it's lots of Sherpas it's the best food
00:46:44
um it's really the full you know the
00:46:47
super Platinum service you can do it a
00:46:50
lot cheaper
00:46:51
um I mean if I was going back to K2 I
00:46:53
could probably do that on 40 or 50 I
00:46:55
reckon but I wouldn't be part of a
00:46:57
guided Expedition I'd take Woody
00:47:00
um and we'd just build out our own
00:47:02
infrastructure and we'd climb it without
00:47:04
a big group just the two of us would
00:47:05
still have super support and all that
00:47:07
but I think and now that I'm more
00:47:09
experienced I can do that
00:47:12
um
00:47:14
but also I've had plenty of time in
00:47:16
these mountains you know climbing on my
00:47:17
own
00:47:18
um I've had a few pretty interesting
00:47:21
experiences doing that
00:47:23
um so that's quite different yeah like
00:47:24
what what do you mean like like the
00:47:26
scary calls yeah I've almost killed
00:47:28
myself three times yeah yeah what does
00:47:31
that look like on a mountain uh on
00:47:33
Everest the first time
00:47:35
probably mansley was the first time
00:47:37
where you know we were pretty exposed at
00:47:39
8 000 meters
00:47:41
um the night before and the wind changed
00:47:43
just you know the the just bit blue yeah
00:47:47
um blew 100 miles an hour at four in the
00:47:49
morning which is pretty terrifying
00:47:51
um you know I was that stage you're told
00:47:53
to get dressed
00:47:55
um which is you know you're literally in
00:47:57
the middle of nowhere a thousand meters
00:47:59
it's pitch black right um and also like
00:48:01
why am I getting dressed now like
00:48:03
because we might be outside soon um eyes
00:48:05
and the tents just flying away yeah oh
00:48:07
my God you know get dressed okay
00:48:11
um and it's noisy right like it's like
00:48:13
being on the side of 747 you're on a
00:48:15
two-man tent which is you know sort of
00:48:17
this whole tiny little dive and suddenly
00:48:19
it's flat right like it's literally
00:48:21
hitting you in the face
00:48:22
um so you're in the middle of all that
00:48:24
trying to get dressed which is not that
00:48:25
easy to do your down suits and all the
00:48:27
rest of it
00:48:29
um so that was sort of the first a sort
00:48:31
of you know if it had blown another 20
00:48:33
30 miles an hour which I thought it was
00:48:35
going to you know you just get blown off
00:48:37
the mountain right that's the end of it
00:48:39
um the wind stopped and we summited four
00:48:42
hours later
00:48:43
um but that was the first timer I
00:48:45
suddenly went hey do you know what I
00:48:46
might be a bit buggered here and there's
00:48:48
nothing I can do about it out of your
00:48:50
depth at the time you're thinking I
00:48:53
suppose at the time you're just in the
00:48:54
moment and you're not don't think until
00:48:56
afterwards like [ __ ] that was a close
00:48:58
call yeah I mean I got maniacally calm
00:49:00
right like I just made my piece with it
00:49:02
I was like well it's not up to you
00:49:03
anymore
00:49:04
um that's part of it you think because
00:49:05
you're good under pressure as well from
00:49:06
years as well I do tend to do that right
00:49:08
it's the pressure ratchets up I I do get
00:49:11
maniacally calm I go the other way
00:49:13
um which I think was why I was always
00:49:15
pretty good Under Pressure playing
00:49:16
Cricket because that's my natural
00:49:17
instinct I generally speaking don't
00:49:20
freak out
00:49:21
um I tend to go the other way yeah
00:49:23
naturally and that's been the case with
00:49:24
the mountaineering as well
00:49:26
um Everest I got stuck in a massive
00:49:28
collapse in the ice fall
00:49:30
um which was just stupid what is it does
00:49:32
it mean you're walking along in the The
00:49:33
Ice just disappears beneath you so we
00:49:36
were trying to sneak through it was
00:49:37
after our first failed Summit attempt
00:49:39
and there were three of us Woody David
00:49:41
Tate myself four of us and Adrian
00:49:43
balance senior guide and we were trying
00:49:46
to sneak through so we could get back to
00:49:48
base camp so we can get an extra days of
00:49:49
rest because we knew the next weather
00:49:50
window was six days away and we were in
00:49:53
the ice fall in the evening at six in
00:49:55
the evening which is just stupidity
00:49:56
right like there's an amateur mistake
00:49:58
and uh the ice just collapsed and when I
00:50:02
say the ice collapsed an area literally
00:50:04
three meters behind me the size of a
00:50:07
football field just disappeared like
00:50:10
literally disappeared and the ice that
00:50:13
we were on just started moving like this
00:50:15
like it was like being in Donkey Kong oh
00:50:17
my God and so my bit went up and David
00:50:21
Tate was in front of me
00:50:23
um he went down and his bit of ice block
00:50:25
of ice there about size of this room
00:50:28
um about four meters by three meters
00:50:30
they were and they all just started
00:50:32
moving David's one split in half and he
00:50:34
fell over
00:50:35
um so I thought he's gone and all I
00:50:38
could think of was just stay on your
00:50:39
feet if you stay on your feet you're a
00:50:41
chance so I'm literally surfing this one
00:50:43
boss really laugh about it now it's like
00:50:47
holy [ __ ] and it moved probably
00:50:50
I don't know four or five meters I
00:50:52
reckon with me on it
00:50:54
um
00:50:55
and so that was and then we saw the size
00:50:57
of the collapse behind us and when I say
00:51:00
behind us like literally two meters
00:51:01
behind us just disappeared right how far
00:51:04
down did it drop oh
00:51:05
kilometer
00:51:07
yeah it just vanished right gone
00:51:09
um it took them three days to repair the
00:51:12
route after we got back put it that way
00:51:14
it was a big collapse and the noise of
00:51:16
it like you could hear it underneath it
00:51:18
was like a 747 starting up underneath
00:51:20
you I never forget the sound
00:51:23
um and we we survived we got lucky right
00:51:25
dead lucky so that yeah that wasn't um
00:51:28
there wasn't human error or an altitude
00:51:30
problem no altitude sickness or
00:51:31
stupidity
00:51:33
these guys are the best climbers in the
00:51:35
world right yeah so stupidity that you
00:51:37
could not have avoided stupidity that we
00:51:40
just shouldn't have been in the icefall
00:51:41
at six o'clock at night okay everybody
00:51:43
knows that right literally it's a it's a
00:51:45
it's a how did these guys let it happen
00:51:47
because when you get under pressure you
00:51:49
make mistakes right right yeah we were
00:51:51
trying we took a chance and with
00:51:53
hindsight it's just a stupid era but
00:51:56
that's how the best Mountaineers in the
00:51:57
world get killed right the mountain is
00:51:59
the same Mountain doesn't know you're an
00:52:00
expert and you look at you look at all
00:52:04
the best climbers
00:52:05
um they get killed by making amateur
00:52:08
mistakes
00:52:09
and it happens over and over and over
00:52:11
again all right well see at that point
00:52:15
why do you keep going why don't you
00:52:17
sudden your tent that night and go
00:52:18
actually this isn't for me is it because
00:52:20
you'd come too far
00:52:21
no I think at that stage you just
00:52:23
realize that you just made a mistake
00:52:24
right it was just a stupid mistake and
00:52:26
so part of what you do as a climber
00:52:29
um is you manage risk and that was just
00:52:31
a poor decision simple as that it
00:52:33
doesn't mean you're gonna make another
00:52:34
poor decision that's just count yourself
00:52:36
lucky that you've survived it don't
00:52:38
don't do it don't do it again don't do
00:52:39
it again right yeah so reassess your
00:52:42
risk parameters and you know just count
00:52:44
yourself lucky yeah so then the um so
00:52:46
the day you climb to the mountain you
00:52:48
you get out of bed at midnight or
00:52:50
something and you start climbing yeah
00:52:51
well no so that day actually starts at 7
00:52:54
300 meters at camp three so you're up at
00:52:57
six so there's base camp then Camp one
00:52:59
Camp two kept three camp three is
00:53:01
halfway up the lutzy face okay it's at 7
00:53:04
300
00:53:05
um what's the summit eight thousand
00:53:07
eight eight forty eight okay so I like a
00:53:09
k and a half that's a fair way to go
00:53:10
yeah it's a big day um so you get out of
00:53:12
your tent that morning you climb the
00:53:14
loads you face and then you Traverse
00:53:17
across
00:53:18
um uh and then you end up at um four
00:53:22
which is 8 000 so that takes most of the
00:53:24
day you get into Camp 4 at about
00:53:27
lunchtime rest for the afternoon and
00:53:31
then you leave the summit at midnight
00:53:32
that morning you're supposed to put your
00:53:34
oxygen on or we were supposed to put
00:53:35
oxygen on it 7 300. I I get out and I'm
00:53:40
climbing the face reasonably well but
00:53:42
I'm sort of a bit sluggish
00:53:44
um uh there's a couple of the altitude
00:53:46
or well I thought it was just altitude
00:53:48
right um there's a couple of guys who I
00:53:49
normally climb faster than we're sort of
00:53:51
going past me which I thought was a bit
00:53:53
unusual I wasn't feeling my best but
00:53:55
still felt okay hands were really cold
00:53:58
and then I get to top of the late sea
00:54:00
face at 8 000 meters and I sort of
00:54:01
thought better just check my oxygen and
00:54:04
I'd forgotten to turn it on right
00:54:08
so that's a classic example of being
00:54:10
hypoxic right like all of those signs
00:54:12
the cold hands should have been an
00:54:14
absolute giveaway the fact that I was
00:54:16
feeling a little bit sluggish and
00:54:18
particularly when other guys are
00:54:19
climbing faster than you that should
00:54:21
have said to me make check your oxygen
00:54:23
but because I was hypoxic I didn't think
00:54:25
that my brain just wasn't working right
00:54:27
so I climbed all the way to 8 000 with
00:54:29
no O's and then I went [ __ ] well that's
00:54:32
quite good because you've got heaps more
00:54:34
than the others
00:54:35
then I'm going [ __ ] if I arrive at Camp
00:54:37
4 with you know a heap of oxygen I'm
00:54:40
going to get told off
00:54:41
um so I thought right I'll just crank it
00:54:44
right up and burn it off right
00:54:47
so I did and I forget what the leader
00:54:50
Edge was but I turned it to maximum mate
00:54:53
I just turned into Superman right like I
00:54:56
was going Incredibles passing the
00:54:57
Sherpas literally like it was
00:54:59
unbelievable the difference so I got
00:55:02
into Camp four with a little more oxygen
00:55:04
than I should have but sort of managed
00:55:06
to get away with it but um the
00:55:08
difference between no-os and O's at
00:55:10
altitude like different thing right
00:55:13
completely remarkable and did you do you
00:55:15
pass is it just like an urban myth or do
00:55:17
you pass like bodies encased in ice on
00:55:19
the way oh no no that's all there that's
00:55:21
it yeah yeah that's a thing um and then
00:55:23
there's uh uh what they call Rainbow
00:55:26
Valley which is at the bottom of the I
00:55:27
think it's kangshan face which is
00:55:29
climbers have fallen down there that's
00:55:31
the the down suits so you go over
00:55:33
Rainbow Valley
00:55:35
um how many bodies are we talking uh
00:55:37
depends on the snow conditions but when
00:55:39
it's quite dry like our year was quite
00:55:41
dry not a lot of snow
00:55:43
um I think we saw three or four
00:55:45
um and also they're kind of like the
00:55:47
tracks sort of that wide right and it's
00:55:49
yeah like half a meter say about a
00:55:51
kilometer and a half straight down on
00:55:52
that side and then you know it's that
00:55:55
side's China so um
00:55:57
the the sort of the Jokers that you're
00:55:59
better off falling down the kangshong
00:56:01
face because you'll live longer
00:56:03
it's about two k's down on that side
00:56:06
I suppose you have to laugh about it
00:56:08
don't you well the mountains have pretty
00:56:10
black humor right I suppose that's
00:56:12
necessary yeah yeah it is it's sort of a
00:56:14
part of it and were you were you
00:56:16
educated on what to do if you see
00:56:17
someone on the way that's struggling and
00:56:19
yeah you're supposed to just walk past
00:56:21
them well it's kind of every man for
00:56:22
himself right um
00:56:24
it's sort of not really my ethos to be
00:56:27
honest but there's pretty limited what
00:56:29
you can do right um yeah you know it
00:56:32
really is hard getting yourself down
00:56:35
um because hypoxia at I didn't really
00:56:38
notice it until I got sort of above the
00:56:40
Hillary Step
00:56:41
um but and certainly above the South
00:56:43
Summit which is about 8 600 meters I
00:56:46
reckon and at that stage I was even with
00:56:48
oxygen I was quite out of it and you get
00:56:51
clumsy like really clumsy
00:56:53
um and normally my feet are pretty good
00:56:55
but I was suddenly pretty sloppy with my
00:56:57
footwork you know it's a thing
00:56:59
particularly right at that last little
00:57:01
bit and there's not a lot of roommate
00:57:04
but literally the tracks this wide
00:57:05
you've got you know big cornice on this
00:57:08
side and over that is China and this
00:57:10
side you know it's just the that's the
00:57:13
the I think it's the kingstrong face so
00:57:15
you get to the summit then why is it
00:57:17
just a photo and then get the [ __ ] out
00:57:18
of there no I was up there for about 20
00:57:20
minutes really doing what just hanging
00:57:22
out with and having a look
00:57:24
um and it was the weather was perfect
00:57:26
right so I was literally had my down
00:57:28
suit all unzip doesn't t-shirt 6 a.m no
00:57:31
way yeah really yeah see I sort of
00:57:33
imagined um okay so you can take your
00:57:35
gloves off and take some photos and yeah
00:57:37
it was beautiful up there right there
00:57:38
was no breath of wind
00:57:40
um you can see literally you can see the
00:57:43
curvature of the earth you can see from
00:57:45
Earth's flat mate well I can tell you
00:57:47
it's not I've seen it with my own eyes
00:57:49
yeah exactly around well it sounds like
00:57:52
you've got a good day sky is sort of
00:57:53
Bluey black because you're basically on
00:57:55
the edge of the atmosphere and where you
00:57:57
had a crack a day
00:57:58
um and then so I messed around up there
00:58:00
waited for a few of the other guys to
00:58:01
catch up took some photos
00:58:04
um and then I had this really strange
00:58:06
sensation it's probably one of the most
00:58:08
powerful physical Sensations I've ever
00:58:10
felt which is you know we need to go
00:58:12
down now
00:58:14
and it was sort of quite yeah I'll never
00:58:16
forget how that felt it was like this is
00:58:19
great we don't belong here we need to go
00:58:21
down
00:58:22
um
00:58:22
and so that yeah that was my time on the
00:58:24
summit oh that sounds incredible yeah
00:58:27
yeah it was pretty cool experience what
00:58:29
um what do you think means more like um
00:58:31
climbing Everest or some of your Cricket
00:58:33
achievements like playing in New Zealand
00:58:34
playing for New Zealand for the first
00:58:35
time when you're a teenager of things
00:58:37
right really um yeah uh the cricket
00:58:39
stuff was always something that you
00:58:41
celebrated quite outwardly whereas the
00:58:43
mountaineering is very inward
00:58:45
um but I never talk about it right ever
00:58:48
that's why to be able to talk about it
00:58:49
with you is I enjoy it but it's just not
00:58:51
something that I talk about why because
00:58:53
you're you're constantly looking forward
00:58:55
sort of guy or I don't think so I think
00:58:57
it's just uh the experience is so
00:58:59
personal and there's a lot of respect
00:59:02
involved with the mountains and with
00:59:04
your teammates
00:59:06
um you know on all of these Expeditions
00:59:08
uh some people don't come home right on
00:59:10
all of them yeah and it's a risk it's a
00:59:12
risk of everyone that goes so I think
00:59:13
you're very conscious of that and being
00:59:15
very respectful to the people that that
00:59:17
are still in the mountains
00:59:19
um and it's just it's a very inward
00:59:21
personal sort of experience grants and
00:59:24
not something that I sort of really talk
00:59:25
about not sure why it's just but I've
00:59:28
noticed over the years quite a different
00:59:29
thing right but it's something that so
00:59:31
few people do so there must be so much
00:59:32
curiosity around it I'm like I don't
00:59:34
bring it up obviously and um
00:59:36
occasionally when it comes up I'm happy
00:59:38
to talk about it but um it doesn't cut
00:59:40
honestly it doesn't come up much yeah so
00:59:42
for that 20 minutes on the summit body
00:59:44
can you remember what you were thinking
00:59:45
at the time I was buggered myself I was
00:59:49
dead tired thinking holy [ __ ] that's
00:59:51
halfway I'm gonna get down oh is that
00:59:53
right yes but is it easier going down
00:59:55
low like that well it's just as
00:59:57
technical but it's It's Tricky yeah and
01:00:00
it's really physically hard on your
01:00:02
knees and your feet
01:00:03
um
01:00:05
and also it's scary right going down is
01:00:07
quite scary
01:00:08
like tronic because you by definition
01:00:10
you're overtaking people you've got
01:00:12
people coming up so you need to be on
01:00:13
and off the ropes all the time which is
01:00:15
a bit precarious I didn't think about
01:00:17
that yeah right right yeah and some of
01:00:19
them are well everybody going the other
01:00:21
way you don't know who they are and some
01:00:23
of them are you know sort of more
01:00:25
capable than others
01:00:26
um so there's a lot of sort of there's a
01:00:29
lot of risk on the way down third party
01:00:30
risk in terms of safely navigating your
01:00:33
way down she's having you explain it
01:00:35
like that it's probably amazing the uh
01:00:36
the death rate on the mental is not
01:00:37
higher than what it is
01:00:41
there's a lot of people up there who
01:00:43
have no right to be in there on Everest
01:00:45
particularly not not so much on K2 but
01:00:46
even there there's a few that probably
01:00:48
shouldn't have been there so at what
01:00:50
point do you do you realize I think I've
01:00:52
done it and I'm going to live
01:00:54
um
01:00:55
Camp four that you were talking about or
01:00:58
yeah probably by that stage most the
01:01:00
significa yeah when you get down to Camp
01:01:02
four you're kind of you're out of the
01:01:03
Worcester but I think yeah altitude are
01:01:05
you feeling better with every step
01:01:07
um like you genuinely feel stronger as
01:01:09
you descend like that is definitely a
01:01:11
thing and then by the time you get to
01:01:13
Camp four you're sort of through the
01:01:14
worst of it and it's you've got a bit of
01:01:17
work to do still right so you're not
01:01:18
tobogganing down to base camping
01:01:21
so I think for us I mean my timings and
01:01:24
if you compare this to some of the the
01:01:26
tragic stories up there was we left the
01:01:29
Summit AT 12. we were on the Summit AT
01:01:31
6am I was in
01:01:34
Camp four by nine am back at Camp 2 by
01:01:38
lunchtime
01:01:40
wow what a day yeah
01:01:42
um and you compare this to some of the
01:01:44
stories where you've got guys who are
01:01:46
still you know haven't even reached
01:01:47
South Summit at three in the afternoon
01:01:49
right because they're in a line of line
01:01:51
of human trafficking fast enough or
01:01:53
whatever
01:01:54
um the cues the cues are in my opinion
01:01:56
very dangerous
01:01:58
um and I'm surprised that there's not
01:02:00
more issues around that yeah but we like
01:02:03
that night
01:02:04
um so we climbed off the ropes there's a
01:02:06
portion early on in the climb called the
01:02:08
triangle face just below the balcony and
01:02:11
there was a big I've got photos of the
01:02:12
the lights up there the queue so we
01:02:15
didn't we came off the ropes and free
01:02:16
climbed the triangle face and literally
01:02:19
went past everybody and then we were
01:02:20
first so we had no cues because we were
01:02:22
first but still had to navigate
01:02:24
everybody coming back down
01:02:26
um
01:02:27
but I I mean the way that I typically do
01:02:29
that is I will literally come off the
01:02:30
ropes and free climb right um is that
01:02:33
advisable one it just depends on your
01:02:35
own level of competence your own ability
01:02:37
but I for me I feel
01:02:39
uh probably I feel safer
01:02:42
um free climbing reasonably easy
01:02:44
sections of the mountain as opposed to
01:02:47
being on the ropes which slows me down
01:02:49
and then sort of introduces third party
01:02:51
risk in terms of people going the other
01:02:52
way
01:02:53
um and I but I always come from a I go
01:02:56
light and fast
01:02:57
um and try and get myself through danger
01:03:00
quickly as opposed to you know being
01:03:02
completely safe but I back my ability to
01:03:04
stay on my feet like oh I'm good on my
01:03:06
feet um yeah but that's a personal
01:03:08
decision that everybody makes yeah wow
01:03:10
what an accomplishment gee I just looked
01:03:11
at the time we've been going for an hour
01:03:12
for you um promised me an hour of your
01:03:14
time are you in a hurry uh no no that's
01:03:17
good Thomas keep going you enjoy it yeah
01:03:19
yeah I really appreciate you being here
01:03:21
because um I said to you before you came
01:03:22
in I I searched your name on um podcast
01:03:25
platforms and it's not something you do
01:03:27
a lot you're a relatively private and
01:03:29
personal Guys these days you buy these
01:03:31
days which I'm guess is by choice yeah
01:03:32
yeah so I sort of made that decision
01:03:35
um 10 15 years ago yeah
01:03:37
um why is that you just have a guts full
01:03:39
of being you were you were like um a
01:03:42
tabloid fighter you you were in the
01:03:43
woman's weekly or Woman's Day or New
01:03:45
Idea every other week yeah I just had
01:03:47
enough of being exposed to everybody and
01:03:49
everybody having an opinion
01:03:51
um and I did certainly feel the brunt of
01:03:55
the tall poppy syndrome which
01:03:58
and I've sort of started to understand
01:04:00
that a little bit more it's just a cute
01:04:02
name that we as new zealanders have
01:04:03
dreamed up so we can bully people it's
01:04:06
as simple as that and I think as
01:04:08
certainly as
01:04:09
if when it's directed towards young
01:04:11
people and typically they're Sports
01:04:12
people or high-profile entertainers or
01:04:14
whatever it's quite destructive right
01:04:17
um and I was sort of in my era you know
01:04:20
if you have a little bit of success you
01:04:22
were told to just harden up
01:04:23
um which I don't think is particularly
01:04:26
helpful for either young men or young
01:04:28
women absolutely no and you could also
01:04:29
shrug and say oh it comes with the
01:04:31
territory but that's another cop out you
01:04:33
know it's like actually no no I don't
01:04:35
agree with that right yeah you know just
01:04:36
because you're good at playing tennis or
01:04:38
you can sing well and you've had some
01:04:41
success commercially
01:04:43
um that doesn't mean that people have
01:04:45
got a right to line up and pull it out I
01:04:47
mean I just don't buy into that right
01:04:49
it's just bullying it's terrible do you
01:04:51
think it's um still as bad here in New
01:04:53
Zealand do you think it's got better or
01:04:54
is it much the same I don't know because
01:04:55
I haven't had any personal experience of
01:04:57
it because I've been invisible for 15
01:04:58
years yeah and that's not by accident I
01:05:01
just got sick and tired of just people
01:05:02
chipping me um so that's right it does
01:05:05
yeah yeah it does
01:05:07
um uh so I just made a decision I would
01:05:09
just take myself away from that and so
01:05:12
for the last
01:05:13
certainly for the last decade you know
01:05:15
if you don't actually know me you know I
01:05:18
could probably count on one hand a
01:05:19
number of people that have had 30
01:05:20
minutes with me
01:05:21
um I just don't I just don't do that
01:05:24
anymore yeah um yeah it's funny because
01:05:26
I had um Matthew Ridge on the podcast in
01:05:29
the middle of last year and when when he
01:05:31
was at the peak of his Fame he had the
01:05:33
ultimate
01:05:34
um I don't give a [ __ ] attitude and um
01:05:36
we he was sitting in the same chair as
01:05:38
well you are and we sat down and talked
01:05:39
about this and and even he admitted at
01:05:41
[ __ ] stings yeah it hurts it feels
01:05:44
like [ __ ] right now yeah yeah there's
01:05:46
Sticks and Stones saying that I was you
01:05:48
you're about the same age as me you
01:05:49
probably heard it as well my parents
01:05:50
taught me sticks and stones may break my
01:05:52
bones but names will never hurt me but
01:05:53
it's utter [ __ ] name calling does it
01:05:56
so you yeah so you um speaking of
01:05:59
Matthew Rich so so he was married to
01:06:00
Sally and then you you started seeing
01:06:03
Sally after that you got a couple of
01:06:04
couple of kids together
01:06:06
um how I remember watching the TV show
01:06:09
gamer two halves and there was your name
01:06:11
would come up from time to time was that
01:06:13
a was that a friend Rusty time
01:06:15
was Matthew and Sally like well and
01:06:17
truly over and you guys were good uh
01:06:19
they were over Matthew was pretty
01:06:21
protective of Jamie and bossy obviously
01:06:22
right um and I didn't know Matthew Until
01:06:24
I Met Sally um and then obviously I got
01:06:27
to know Matthew
01:06:28
um and uh over the years we became best
01:06:31
mates he was very much like a big
01:06:34
brother to me um like he'd give me a bit
01:06:36
of a hard time but he sort of didn't put
01:06:37
up with anybody else doing it um
01:06:43
was very very good to me also had a huge
01:06:46
amount of respect from right like when I
01:06:47
was playing sport he was the pros Pro
01:06:50
right he was the highest profile he was
01:06:53
you know world-class the best at what he
01:06:55
did
01:06:56
um you know maniacal trainer physically
01:06:59
fit you know an elite in my view yeah
01:07:01
well you you were talking about how you
01:07:02
were earning like two 200 250 a year he
01:07:04
was he said he was on like 800 I was
01:07:06
using a million bucks a year right he
01:07:08
was the first guy I knew was making a
01:07:09
million bucks a year wow
01:07:12
um so so he was in a completely
01:07:14
different level to all the rest of us um
01:07:15
there was Reggie and then there was you
01:07:18
know three or four other guys and I
01:07:19
think I was probably in that bracket in
01:07:20
terms of profile yeah
01:07:22
um but he was Far and Away Beyond
01:07:24
anybody that I saw um and deservedly so
01:07:27
right
01:07:27
um and so that was the basis of our
01:07:30
relationship
01:07:31
um
01:07:32
um and then we became great mates over
01:07:34
the years
01:07:35
um haven't seen them recently but I'm
01:07:37
looking forward to catching up with them
01:07:38
in Europe in a couple of months well is
01:07:40
that right you'd see him when you're
01:07:41
over there yeah well we've got um yeah
01:07:44
we've got the family event up in Europe
01:07:45
later on this year we will all sort of
01:07:47
be together so it'll be nice yeah I I
01:07:49
really enjoyed spending time with him he
01:07:50
seems like it's in a really good place
01:07:51
quite a Zen dude these days he's bloody
01:07:54
hard case
01:07:55
um we had so much fun together yeah um
01:07:57
yeah no we had a lot of fun together
01:07:59
yeah so yeah so you and you and Sally
01:08:01
when you were together you're on the
01:08:02
cover of like women's magazines every
01:08:04
other week I'm guessing that's because
01:08:06
um you you sold you sold magazines do
01:08:09
you yeah we did and that was Sally's
01:08:10
business right so I used to just hold up
01:08:12
one side of the photo
01:08:13
um
01:08:14
but it sort of wasn't really my thing
01:08:16
yeah and
01:08:18
yeah we did so we sold pretty good
01:08:21
um but that's that was a different time
01:08:23
you know
01:08:24
um it just was what it was uh not the
01:08:27
case anymore and I think that's probably
01:08:28
quite healthy yeah so and you so you
01:08:30
guys have got a couple of kids together
01:08:31
how old are the kids aston's uh 19
01:08:34
McLean's 16. they're doing any sport or
01:08:36
anything or Aston plays tennis McLean
01:08:38
plays hockey
01:08:40
um like I never really pushed that yeah
01:08:41
I sort of thought if they wanted to play
01:08:44
sport that's great but you know what
01:08:45
it's a pretty tough way to make a living
01:08:47
um so I've sort of left them to their
01:08:49
own devices yeah
01:08:51
and certainly they both played a little
01:08:53
bit of cricket
01:08:54
um sort of wasn't really their thing
01:08:56
which suited me because I didn't really
01:08:58
want to sit around Saturday morning
01:09:02
I didn't really want to watch cricket
01:09:04
for three hours on Sunday morning yeah
01:09:06
she's a long game 95 of it which
01:09:08
involves watching other other people's
01:09:10
kids play
01:09:14
Give Up by your standards not super
01:09:16
excited and obviously I had to coach and
01:09:19
that sort of doesn't sit that naturally
01:09:20
with me so when they decided that you
01:09:22
know to play tennis and hockey I was
01:09:23
delighted yeah so what happened with you
01:09:26
guys you want to get into it or not
01:09:27
really is it just the pressure of like
01:09:28
being such a high profile capital or
01:09:31
Sally and I yeah um just run its course
01:09:34
yeah I think it just we were together
01:09:36
eight to ten years yeah
01:09:38
um and I just think that it wasn't the
01:09:40
perfect match obviously it just sort of
01:09:41
ran its course
01:09:43
um we were pretty ambitious and we took
01:09:45
it on a lot of projects I think that
01:09:46
took its toll on the relationship
01:09:49
um the friendship was there was no issue
01:09:51
there at all and it was a very
01:09:53
constructive successful relationship
01:09:55
yeah um
01:09:58
unfortunately despite the the you know
01:10:00
we had a pretty rough period for about
01:10:01
five years after it came to an end which
01:10:03
was pretty difficult for everyone
01:10:05
um we've sort of put that back together
01:10:07
again and Sally and I have sort of
01:10:08
probably in the best place we've ever
01:10:10
been which is nice oh that's good great
01:10:11
for the kids well yeah because you guys
01:10:13
actually sell his bloody good company
01:10:14
mate is she yeah yeah you know I
01:10:16
normally go there for dinner once a week
01:10:18
and um you know we get on like a house
01:10:20
on fire
01:10:21
um it's funny how that happens with AJ
01:10:23
like when yeah because yeah you said
01:10:25
there was a tough time and yeah I
01:10:26
remember this was splashed through the
01:10:28
papers as well like some court stuff
01:10:29
that was going on when when you're in
01:10:31
the thick of that the eye of that
01:10:32
tornado you must be thinking I can never
01:10:34
sit down in the same room with this
01:10:36
person again yeah well it was like that
01:10:37
right yeah we didn't talk to each other
01:10:39
for a while and it was you know it was
01:10:41
pretty it was it was pretty sort of
01:10:43
tough times for everybody
01:10:45
um but we managed to with a bit of age
01:10:47
and a little bit of maturity we sort of
01:10:49
managed to put it all back together
01:10:49
again and it's um
01:10:52
it's yeah it's been great for the kids
01:10:53
particularly yeah you know what they
01:10:55
really like is to you know just spend a
01:10:57
bit of time with their mum and dad being
01:10:58
normal yeah yeah age wisdom the healing
01:11:01
power of time as well I think it's a
01:11:03
little bit of humility and yeah swallow
01:11:05
your pride a little bit goes a long way
01:11:06
yeah leave your ego at the doors for
01:11:08
pretty um it's a pretty good start yeah
01:11:10
so how are we married what do you mean
01:11:11
like eight years uh somewhere between
01:11:13
eight and ten years I would say that's a
01:11:15
good Innings but you're a cricketer so
01:11:16
you know that but I think for a marriage
01:11:18
it's it's like people change and evolve
01:11:21
all the time don't you so yeah well you
01:11:22
do you do yeah certainly I do yeah so
01:11:25
you've been married um twice married
01:11:27
twice
01:11:28
um the second one was um to um a girl in
01:11:32
her early 20s when you were when I was
01:11:34
40 so there's a pretty decent age Gap
01:11:36
that was fun but um yeah it sort of
01:11:39
didn't didn't last the distance although
01:11:41
Miller and I were together probably five
01:11:42
years
01:11:43
um
01:11:45
what happened there was it just the age
01:11:47
in the end oh sh yeah just the age I
01:11:49
think and um Miller had Fair bit of
01:11:51
living doing she need to get on and do
01:11:53
it which was probably quite obvious I
01:11:56
think but um I mean we had a lot of fun
01:11:58
together it was and we're still friends
01:11:59
to this day so that's nice well that
01:12:02
must the fact that you're still you
01:12:03
still remain friends with these people
01:12:04
even going back as uh to the the partner
01:12:06
Kate that we're referenced at the very
01:12:08
beginning of the podcast I I mean you
01:12:10
need to take some of the credit I think
01:12:11
for those relationships yeah I think
01:12:13
there's always that period afterwards
01:12:15
where there's sort of not a lot of
01:12:16
communication but I think you know if
01:12:18
these relationships that are meaningful
01:12:20
um it seems a bit of a waste just to let
01:12:22
them go right yes you know you have you
01:12:25
have some great times obviously you have
01:12:27
some tough stuff as well but um I think
01:12:29
as the passage of time sort of uh is
01:12:32
pretty good for that sort of stuff it's
01:12:33
been my experience save what you can
01:12:35
from the fire I guess yeah and I think
01:12:37
also certainly in my case when things
01:12:38
get difficult for me
01:12:40
um you know those people are very
01:12:42
supportive and I think that well
01:12:44
hopefully that means that at some stage
01:12:46
along the line you've done done some
01:12:47
good stuff yeah oh how cool yeah so the
01:12:50
the age difference with you and your
01:12:52
second wife Miller that's um almost
01:12:54
identical to the age Gap that I have at
01:12:56
the moment with them with my partner Ash
01:12:57
we've been seeing each other for a year
01:12:58
and it doesn't seem doesn't seem that
01:13:02
noticeable and uh you know
01:13:05
how much was age involved with your with
01:13:08
your split ultimately do you think I
01:13:10
don't think was necessarily the age I
01:13:13
always sort of said to Miller that so
01:13:15
long as one of us is acting your age
01:13:16
we're probably all right I feel like
01:13:18
that was probably mostly you
01:13:20
let me in my situation with my partner
01:13:23
Ash I feel like um she's the nanner in
01:13:25
the relationship yeah
01:13:27
um but I think it was just I think the
01:13:29
age Gap became a little bit more obvious
01:13:31
and not so much in the fact that it was
01:13:33
a mismatch but more on the fact that
01:13:34
Miller had a whole pile of stuff she
01:13:36
needed to do that I'd already done
01:13:38
um you know and so she needed to go on
01:13:40
and do that and it was as simple as that
01:13:42
yeah that must be which was a bit
01:13:43
heartbreaking but you know it wasn't
01:13:46
with hindsight not unexpected yeah and
01:13:49
she's good now she's seeing someone else
01:13:50
or scratch she lives in Brisbane I think
01:13:52
she's lived in Brisbane for five years
01:13:54
yeah she's in a relationship with some
01:13:56
pretty good guy she's happy yeah that's
01:13:58
cool and your current partner who I
01:14:01
can't think enough because she ended up
01:14:02
teeing up this interview otherwise this
01:14:03
never would have happened
01:14:05
um how long have you guys been seeing
01:14:06
each other yeah just under a year yeah
01:14:08
yeah
01:14:09
um and that was uh that was pretty
01:14:11
unexpected I'd sort of kind of given it
01:14:13
away to be honest
01:14:15
um I was looking at options in terms of
01:14:17
living overseas
01:14:18
um uh sort of got to 50 and sort of
01:14:21
thought we've sort of done this there's
01:14:22
a big wide world out there I might as
01:14:24
well go get in it and as always Don when
01:14:27
you're sort of at least looking for
01:14:28
something it had yeah
01:14:30
um so that was a very pleasant surprise
01:14:32
and we've had a great year together are
01:14:34
you one of these people that um you're
01:14:36
quite lonely on your own are you okay on
01:14:37
your own no I like being online yeah I'm
01:14:39
good yeah
01:14:40
uh I I sort of thought that that was
01:14:42
going to be it for me to be honest I I
01:14:44
look at these things sort of quite
01:14:46
logically and I sort of went with you
01:14:48
know I've had you know three sort of
01:14:50
pretty great love affairs that sounds
01:14:52
like a lot
01:14:53
um over the course of my life it isn't
01:14:54
really is it there might be another one
01:14:56
out there for me yeah but you know if
01:14:59
that's the end of it we've had a red hot
01:15:01
go right yeah you wouldn't you wouldn't
01:15:03
allow marriage again oh no definitely
01:15:05
not I love being married um yeah despite
01:15:08
the fact that to date I haven't proved
01:15:10
to be very good at it I still enjoy it
01:15:11
um I don't know so how long are they
01:15:13
like so eight years with Sally along
01:15:15
with Miller uh five years with five
01:15:16
years
01:15:18
it's hard isn't it because you get you
01:15:19
get married and it's um yeah till death
01:15:21
do us part and yeah forever and ever and
01:15:23
so anything less than that feels like a
01:15:25
fail but I I don't know I think um if
01:15:28
you can if you can give it a red hot
01:15:29
crack and end up like with salvaging
01:15:31
something from the relationship at the
01:15:32
end of it I feel like that's a success
01:15:34
in some ways yeah I think so and then
01:15:35
what there's one more in there that
01:15:36
you've missed which is which is Danny
01:15:38
who um
01:15:40
I'm separated from now A couple of years
01:15:42
ago well no silly and Sally and I went
01:15:45
married okay right so Miller and Danny
01:15:48
right who's where did Danny fit into the
01:15:49
bed show so Danny and I uh dated way
01:15:52
back right early on and then didn't see
01:15:54
each other for 18 years wife and had our
01:15:56
own lives and then sort of
01:15:58
um reconnected after I got back from K2
01:16:00
in 2017. right married for a few years
01:16:03
um and then separated
01:16:05
um
01:16:06
and so we've been separated almost two
01:16:08
years now I think
01:16:09
um well that's a shame because after
01:16:11
that sort of Gap and then reconnecting
01:16:12
you must feel like you sort of
01:16:14
star-crossed lovers or soul mates or
01:16:16
something like that that's meant to be
01:16:17
together right yeah well that was the
01:16:19
thinking but I think um with hindsight
01:16:22
you know the passage of time has not
01:16:24
always kind to these things and you know
01:16:26
we had by that stage there were multiple
01:16:28
kids involved and you know it was
01:16:29
complicated
01:16:30
uh I think I think it was more
01:16:33
complicated and more difficult than
01:16:34
either of us thought because obviously
01:16:36
you know we had known each other for a
01:16:38
long time
01:16:39
um we dated for five years I think the
01:16:41
first time
01:16:42
but it was literally a different time
01:16:44
and a different it was just the two of
01:16:46
us so everything's kind of quite easy
01:16:48
we didn't have any real life pressures
01:16:50
we didn't live together we just dated we
01:16:53
traveled a lot and we were young and
01:16:57
that was quite easy and I think you know
01:16:59
fast forward 18 years suddenly you know
01:17:02
Danny's got three kids to another
01:17:03
marriage young kids
01:17:05
all of a sudden get a whole pile of
01:17:07
complications and compromises and it was
01:17:09
just it was just I think you know we
01:17:10
both tried as hard as we could and gave
01:17:12
it our best shot but it was just you
01:17:13
know difficult yeah
01:17:16
and I think also you know that that's
01:17:18
life it is it is it's part of the rich
01:17:21
tapestry [ __ ] you've been through some
01:17:23
stuff haven't you how's your how's your
01:17:25
mental health been over the years
01:17:26
through all this stuff
01:17:27
pretty pretty good it seemed like quite
01:17:29
a resilient dude yeah I'm pretty
01:17:31
resilient but also
01:17:32
um
01:17:33
I go away and do the hard yards you know
01:17:36
so in terms of working on yourself yeah
01:17:38
yeah
01:17:40
um I try not to run away from the way
01:17:42
that I'm feeling you know I try and sit
01:17:43
sit with it as much as I can which feels
01:17:45
like [ __ ] mate you know you know you
01:17:47
come out of these relationships
01:17:49
um and it takes you six to 12 months to
01:17:52
get yourself back together again when I
01:17:54
separated from Miller I literally
01:17:55
couldn't breathe for 12 months
01:17:58
um how do you mean what do you mean I
01:18:00
had terrible anxiety right
01:18:02
um uh and like I'd literally wake up in
01:18:04
the morning gasping for breath
01:18:06
um and
01:18:08
and with Donnie when we separated I had
01:18:11
yeah terrible I get terrible anxiety
01:18:14
um which is where the exercise comes
01:18:16
from so you know there's times where I
01:18:18
actually can't sit I actually have to go
01:18:20
train yeah otherwise I just can't
01:18:22
physically can't handle it um
01:18:25
and I think that's if you'd said to me
01:18:28
when I was 25 years of age one day
01:18:30
you'll get anxiety I would have gone
01:18:32
[ __ ] off that'll never happen to me but
01:18:34
it has
01:18:36
um and I you know over the years I'm
01:18:38
learning to manage it but
01:18:40
um you know I think at times I think all
01:18:43
of our mental health is not quite what
01:18:44
it could be yeah and I'm no different
01:18:46
mate
01:18:47
um
01:18:48
and unfortunately that's just part of
01:18:49
growing up right yeah yeah
01:18:51
the older you get you realize no one's
01:18:53
no one's immune to it actually I think
01:18:55
when you get older you sort of
01:18:56
accumulate more emotional Scar Tissue
01:18:58
it's like getting dirty Gym gear and
01:19:00
putting it in the bag and checking it
01:19:01
under the car boot or whatever it's not
01:19:03
going to clean itself eventually you're
01:19:04
gonna have to well you're going to deal
01:19:05
with it right yeah yeah you know like
01:19:07
even now I get triggered things happen
01:19:09
that trigger me and um when I was
01:19:11
younger I didn't I had no experiences so
01:19:14
I was pretty bulletproof you know just
01:19:16
kind of managed to shrug my shoulders
01:19:18
and roll through everything
01:19:20
um but as life goes on and you have some
01:19:23
some experiences that are not so
01:19:24
positive
01:19:25
um you start to accumulate with a back
01:19:27
control and I think it's important to
01:19:29
deal with it just do you think part of
01:19:31
that for you comes from like the the
01:19:32
public vlogging that you've had over the
01:19:34
years
01:19:35
uh not so much lately because I've been
01:19:37
sort of pretty insulated from that for
01:19:40
10 or 15 years
01:19:42
um and you know I've got a very tight
01:19:44
group of friends so I'm not exposed to
01:19:45
it too much I'm not in the media
01:19:47
um uh and on the odd occasion that I am
01:19:49
it's never a great experience
01:19:51
um so I sort of try to minimize that as
01:19:53
much as I can
01:19:55
um so I don't feel that much anymore
01:19:57
um it's more just around dealing with my
01:20:00
own personal issues yeah um around yeah
01:20:03
you know just relationships yeah
01:20:05
predominantly so you exercise a lot you
01:20:08
like you're in physically you're in
01:20:10
incredible shape you're looking amazing
01:20:12
um so
01:20:13
I'm not hitting on you by the way yeah
01:20:16
so so you do that um you're in therapy
01:20:19
uh you got any other tricks or tips that
01:20:21
you do you do cold showers or saunas or
01:20:24
journaling or anything uh uh no I do
01:20:27
write a bit of a journal
01:20:28
um on occasions when I feel like it that
01:20:30
sort of comes and goes yep um
01:20:32
uh but typically I try to live pretty
01:20:35
well you know
01:20:36
um and that's I eat well obviously
01:20:38
exercise important for me in terms of my
01:20:40
own mental health
01:20:41
um and I socialize I spend a lot of time
01:20:43
with friends and family I enjoy that try
01:20:45
not to drink too much that's always a
01:20:48
bit of a
01:20:49
with something I'm conscious of um
01:20:51
because I don't think that's great for
01:20:52
your mental health you definitely notice
01:20:54
it don't you yeah it is a depressant
01:20:56
yeah um yeah uh so I try to I keep my
01:20:59
eye on that um but also I like to
01:21:01
socialize you know and and in New
01:21:03
Zealand you go out and you have a few
01:21:04
beers where you or you have some white
01:21:07
um so I think being able to balance
01:21:09
that's been really important and I think
01:21:10
that's probably a key word for me
01:21:12
dimer's balance trying to find that
01:21:13
balance
01:21:15
um when I was younger I was sort of you
01:21:17
know all or nothing and I think over the
01:21:20
years I've learned to moderate that and
01:21:21
I think I'm closer you know I'm 52 I'm
01:21:25
still not the finished article I've got
01:21:27
a bit of work to do but I'm certainly I
01:21:29
think closer than I've been before yeah
01:21:31
are you happy now like when you look in
01:21:33
the mirror is a 52 year old man you're
01:21:34
happy with who you see looking back at
01:21:35
you yeah yeah I am I think um
01:21:38
particularly last 12 months probably
01:21:39
been as happy as I've ever been in my
01:21:41
life
01:21:42
um and I've had times where I've looked
01:21:43
in the mirror and I really didn't like
01:21:45
the guy who was looking back at me
01:21:47
um and I can remember a couple of
01:21:48
occasions where I've sort of looked at
01:21:50
him and gone who the [ __ ] are you and
01:21:52
what have you done with my mate and
01:21:54
that's been a bit of a wake-up call
01:21:56
um I think being able to
01:21:58
you know being able to sort of turn that
01:22:01
intuition on yourself and and critically
01:22:03
examine yourself and be honest with
01:22:05
yourself is important really important
01:22:07
particularly if you want to get better
01:22:09
um and I'm you know I'm I say to my kids
01:22:12
listen I am a long way from perfect but
01:22:14
I do try you know I get up every day and
01:22:17
I try to be better
01:22:18
I think that counts for a lot yeah
01:22:20
absolutely it does I reckon you're a
01:22:23
good dad and a good person still
01:22:25
learning about the dead bit
01:22:27
I don't think anyone anyone that ever
01:22:30
since then goes yep I've cracked it
01:22:32
there's no [ __ ] because they keep
01:22:33
changing
01:22:35
we all do that I think that's the
01:22:38
exciting thing I sort of as Matthew
01:22:39
McConaughey made a speech it was like
01:22:41
for the uh Oscars or something like that
01:22:42
and he was asked who was superheroers
01:22:44
and he said it's super he was asked when
01:22:46
he was 25 and he said my superhero was
01:22:48
me and 10 years I saw that speech yeah
01:22:50
and then at 35 he was asked the same
01:22:51
thing and yeah I think that's a good way
01:22:53
of looking at it it's a great way to
01:22:54
visit yourself in 10 years and isn't it
01:22:56
exciting to think you had 52 you still
01:22:59
realize you're a work in progress and
01:23:00
you're still getting better oh
01:23:01
absolutely
01:23:02
um and I think um the benefit of age is
01:23:05
you just you know you do if you're
01:23:07
paying attention you you do pick up a
01:23:10
few tips along the way yeah life does or
01:23:12
should get easier it doesn't get it
01:23:14
doesn't get easy but it should get
01:23:15
easier and I think trying not to same
01:23:19
mistake too many times is but helpful as
01:23:21
well
01:23:22
I like that that's a good takeaway well
01:23:25
and you're you're a lot you must be a
01:23:28
lot Kinder now to others and yourself
01:23:29
than what you wear in your 20s oh
01:23:31
absolutely yeah um I talk to people you
01:23:34
know um and I'm I was very
01:23:36
self-conscious in my uh 20s particularly
01:23:38
and I'm very much less so now
01:23:41
um I think I've maintained a sense of
01:23:42
humor right the way through
01:23:45
um I definitely don't take myself too
01:23:47
seriously anymore and I used to take
01:23:48
myself very seriously and I don't really
01:23:51
do that much now and that's been a bit
01:23:53
of a relief to be honest
01:23:55
um yeah yeah life's definitely got
01:23:57
easier I think playing professional
01:23:59
sport is a really difficult thing to do
01:24:01
as a young person
01:24:02
in many many ways and I don't think it's
01:24:04
very un very well understood
01:24:07
um but it's a big task I got a lot of
01:24:09
respect for young people who take that
01:24:10
on and succeed it's it's not easy to do
01:24:12
yeah hey well look I I can't thank you
01:24:15
enough as I said before you you don't
01:24:17
you are notoriously private these days
01:24:19
you don't do a lot of these stuff and I
01:24:21
feel like you've been really unguarded
01:24:23
today and uh even like in the last 10 or
01:24:26
15 minutes showing some real
01:24:27
vulnerability and I don't know if that's
01:24:28
easy for you to do or it's getting
01:24:31
easier yeah and actually that word it's
01:24:33
interesting the vulnerability would
01:24:35
because that comes up a lot with me
01:24:38
um uh I never heard that word in my 20s
01:24:41
and 30s like nobody was talking about it
01:24:43
right and I think society's changed like
01:24:46
the word never got said it just never
01:24:48
got set
01:24:50
we're swimming in the same sort of
01:24:52
waters at that age and it's like in
01:24:54
you'd never show any sort of weakness
01:24:55
because it could be weaponized against
01:24:57
you yeah it was the last thing you did
01:24:59
yeah whereas I think Society has changed
01:25:02
now and I think you know particularly as
01:25:03
men and young men being vulnerable has
01:25:06
seen rightly as as a symbol of strength
01:25:10
not not weakness
01:25:11
um and when I was in my early 20s
01:25:13
vulnerability was weakness
01:25:15
and I think you know our culture around
01:25:17
that stuff has changed for the better
01:25:19
and you know aston's 19 and he's he's
01:25:22
sort of starting to learn about some of
01:25:24
this stuff now and I just it's a much
01:25:25
it's a much more constructive
01:25:27
environment for young people these days
01:25:29
I think which is nice to be a part of
01:25:30
absolutely when was the last time you
01:25:32
cried you cry much
01:25:34
regularly do you um yeah how good you
01:25:37
love it it's good enough I love it
01:25:43
um yeah yeah a week ago probably right
01:25:45
yeah can you read what it was about what
01:25:47
you don't want to say if you don't want
01:25:48
to say that's all right uh yeah no I can
01:25:50
remember what it's about because it was
01:25:53
um you know I was just having a bit of a
01:25:54
moment remembering one of my friends
01:25:55
yeah yeah that's normally particularly
01:25:59
when I think back on memories and people
01:26:00
that have been close to me often you
01:26:02
know that I am quite emotional and very
01:26:05
soft underneath
01:26:06
which has taken me a few years to sort
01:26:09
of start to understand but um that's who
01:26:11
I am right yeah I mean I'm much the same
01:26:13
this but there's probably a period where
01:26:15
I went for like 15 years without crying
01:26:16
at all yeah and um now yeah I've got
01:26:19
yeah I I love it I love having it I
01:26:22
think it's quite healthy yeah it is it
01:26:23
is I I can quite just like dwelling and
01:26:26
thinking about happy stuff for more than
01:26:28
a moment yeah yeah and I find it quite
01:26:30
easy and then as I said it's a regular
01:26:31
for me
01:26:33
um
01:26:33
yeah yeah no idea and I've sort of I
01:26:36
used to try and push it away but not So
01:26:38
Much Anymore yeah oh good for you oh
01:26:40
you're a kind man and um I I was
01:26:44
probably much the same with with as you
01:26:46
with my radio career like during my 20s
01:26:47
all I wanted to be was a [ __ ] Savage
01:26:49
yeah and now if some if someone says to
01:26:52
me are you you're a kind person I I take
01:26:54
that as the ultimate compliment I think
01:26:55
yeah that's a very nice compliment I
01:26:57
mean I certainly I had my walls up you
01:27:00
know that was that was a thing and
01:27:01
learning how to sort of drop those down
01:27:03
and keep them down has been good for me
01:27:05
yeah yeah I mean life's hard for
01:27:06
everyone if we can all do our bit to
01:27:07
make it a bit easier for someone else I
01:27:09
think that's a good thing absolutely
01:27:10
anyway an hour and a half of your time
01:27:12
after you promised me an hour
01:27:13
um thank you so much I hope you don't
01:27:15
regret
01:27:16
um opening up for the first time in 10
01:27:18
years enjoyed it Don it's been such a
01:27:19
pleasure thanks for having me yeah
01:27:20
thanks so much Adam you're a great New
01:27:22
Zealander thanks
01:27:23
[Music]
01:27:30
thank you
