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sir Brian Williams welcome to my podcast
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thank you Dom pleasure to be here you um
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whenever I call you sir Brian you
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usually correct me well exactly it's BG
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or Brian mate forget the sir part yeah
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um yes I I uh messaged you about a week
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ago to ask you to come on the podcast
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and then um I found a copy of your book
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from 1981 at a secondhand Bookshop and I
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sent you a picture it saying um I'm
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going to read your book and do some
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research and you um you sent me a reply
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saying um oh a fair bits happened since
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that that was written which is like 43
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years ago or something yeah well exactly
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um that that book was written in 1981
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and and um you know I've had a pretty
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extensive um both coaching and and
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administrative uh career uh since that
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that book was written so there's quite a
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few chapters uh
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Unwritten yeah so that book just really
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covers the um basically the 1970s and
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your your playing career as as an all
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black um it's quite funny though the uh
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the very last words the last paragraph
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in that book um when was the last time
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you you picked it up for a flick thr by
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the way can you remember what the last
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words are or how the book something like
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I climb to the top of the tree and um
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and I'm happy to climb down or something
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words to that effect I think I've got
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them here uh while while in the All
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Blacks my contribution to the pon Rugby
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Club diminished ponsonby is where I
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started out and ponsonby is where I'll
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be the rest of my Sporting Life
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philosophically speaking I've come home
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yeah okay yeah yeah so that was 1981 and
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um sure enough like you're here today
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with a pby rugby shirt on you're still
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on the the the committee the board still
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on the committee and uh we just had our
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AGM um last Monday night actually and uh
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so I was I was down there and had a had
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a bit to say so yeah still still doing
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my bit for ponies but um you know it's
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it's been a family uh club for me my
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brothers uh played for pby we were able
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to play together um for the prems and uh
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our two sons Gavin and Paul uh have
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played for Pon my nephew Brett uh and
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and now we've got a number of our
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grandchildren playing for the ponies as
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well so it really is a family club and
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and uh I I I just love it
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you do he it's such a big part of your
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life and to think that you you know you
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said that in 1981 and it's um it's it's
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dead dead right it's 100% accurate well
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it it it's my wife says I I say to her
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you know I tell people it's it's my home
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away from home and she says no it's your
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home and you come to my place for visits
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she says so to some degree that that's
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reasonably accurate that's cool I've got
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some other um little um bits and pieces
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that I found in the final chapter of of
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that book um I doubt that over the past
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decade one day has passed without
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reference to rugby or the fact that I
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was an all black how often does it
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happen now well it still happens pretty
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frequently to be honest and um you know
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rugby is so all-encompassing in in in
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the New Zealand psyche you go to the
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supermarket and someone will recognize
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you you go anywhere and someone will
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make reference to it um so you know it's
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nature of the Beast once you've been in
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all black people
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remember yeah and you were a big deal I
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I didn't really so I was born in 1973 so
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I I um I just know you as um as um Bei
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the nice man that lived down the road
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from me um so I'd go for a run down the
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the end of my street into the park and
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you'd usually be out there bloody I
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don't know chopping down flax bushes or
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watching some kids rugby in the park or
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playing with your grandkids um and I
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didn't I I I I feel kind of ignorant I
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didn't realize just what a big deal you
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were well don't get too carried away
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mate no no no you were though you were
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like you you were like the man like the
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you know you came on the scene from what
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I can gather in 1970 and um were like
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the you know the the biggest thing in
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New Zealand at the time well I um yeah
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it was an really interesting uh time
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obviously i' i' dreamed of being an all
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black um although initially I I started
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in rugby league I I grew up uh idolizing
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some of the Kiwi players of of the
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1950s um playing for the pon rugby
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league club and then um that team um uh
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disbanded for various reasons people
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moved out of the area uh so my two
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brothers CES and Ken were both playing
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for pby rugby and they they talked me
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into going uh to join the pby Rugby Club
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and of course um apart from one year uh
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when I went back to the league I've
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played rugby for the rest of my life
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yeah it's been such a big part of your
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life hey been been a huge part of my
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life and um you know I'm I'm eternally
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grateful for it because it's uh given me
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so many wonderful experiences you know
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people I've met um uh places I've been
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um so many highlights some low lights
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you know you have your setbacks along
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the way and that that's all part of uh
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of of life's journey m like what what
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Springs to mind oh injuries um lack of
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form uh not being selected th those are
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some of the setbacks that that can occur
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I've had a number of uh um you know big
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injuries I had a dislocated hip in a
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test match against France in 1977 and
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subsequently I've had three hip
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replacement operations and uh so that
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that was perhaps the worst injury uh but
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there's been broken bones and
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concussions and bruises and um yeah so
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lots of injuries also but as mentioned
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so so many
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highlights yeah um there's so much I
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want to get to like you talk about the
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injuries you actually were playing in
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the same game as um the the famous one
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where Colin Mees broke his arm and
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carried on playing so we'll get to that
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it's like a part of New Zealand Rugby
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sort of folklore um but there's another
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bit in your book um again written in
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1981 I find myself wondering now what
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challenges and goals lie ahead geez you
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had no trouble finding plenty of things
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to do did you no I I I didn't really I I
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um you know I had my challenges uh when
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I was playing I I um I I ended up at law
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school after leaving Mount Alber grammar
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school and um um and that that presented
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a big challenge because um you know I
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had no background whatsoever
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in the law none of my family members had
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had been involved in in the law and um
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so it took me a while uh to come to
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terms with with learning and um you know
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just technique exam technique at at
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University you haven't got teach
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teachers sort of uh on on your case all
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the time you've you've got to learn how
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to Mana manage your time self discipline
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self-discipline and um you know I was
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trying to trying to play rugby at the
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the top level but I still had to try and
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fit in fit in my studies as well so that
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that was quite a challenge yeah actually
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um yeah I think this was in your book or
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maybe it's just something I read online
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but um it may be true it may not um but
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apparently you told your your girlfriend
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at the time who's now your wife um that
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your three goals in order were um make
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the All Blacks become a lawyer and then
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a husband yeah well as mentioned she's
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never forgiven me for for putting it in
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that order
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but uh I've got to say um we celebrated
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our our 51st wedding anniversary just
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earlier this week so it's it's been a
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that's been a huge highlight in my life
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oh surely she forgives you now you hope
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so well she spent at least 51 years with
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me let's put it that way yeah that's um
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you must be immensely proud of that yeah
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it's it's perhaps my biggest highlight
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do I yep um you know the Rugby's been
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great I I always wanted to be an or but
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um you know your relationship and and
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your children your grandchildren uh it's
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it's every day and um you know if you
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don't get that part of it right then you
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know sometimes things don't don't quite
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work out how how um how have you done it
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is is there any sort of like um secret
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to the success of longevity in a
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marriage or oh I think she deserves a a
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lot of credit I I spent a fair amount of
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time away particularly early you know
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both playing and coaching wise I I
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remember um when I retired from playing
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and I I came home and I was pretty
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emotional about it and I said to her oh
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dear I've I've I've retired and and
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you're going to see a lot more of me and
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well within about two or three weeks I
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was coaching the pon Prem with Morris
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tra and and we went on to the Oakland
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team and then I got involved with the
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Manu sore and International Rugby and
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then the the hurricanes with gr muray my
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mate Goss uh so there was a lot of lot
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of time away from home as well so she
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she's been Longs suffering and and my
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greatest
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mate oh that's wonderful oh that's a
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yeah calling someone your greatest mate
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I think that's awesome what was the um
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yeah I mean you mentioned just in like
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the conversation you had with her in
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rugby finished um that she was going to
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see a lot more of you what was that um
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transition like back then because I know
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a lot of players in this professional
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era sort of struggle with that but back
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then you had jobs and stuff anyway a
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well we did and and I um i' I'd done
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that law degree and uh dur during my all
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black career I was having to sit exams
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while we were on tour uh when we went to
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the UK in 7273 I I set four exams um in
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the first month of that 4 and a half
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month tour so I I knew if I knuckled
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down you know for that first first month
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I I could still get my teeth into the
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the tour for the for the next three and
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a half months and I I managed to pass
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those exams but I I suspect it was With
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a Little Help from uh from from my uh
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Dean and and the teachers the tutors
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back
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home but U be that as a May and and you
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know I had some some good friends who
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who were taking notes for me and um and
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and I I managed managed to pass my exam
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so uh
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yeah that was certainly a big challenge
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at the time I I just noticed you you um
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picked up on something you said there
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four and a half month tour like now um
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at the time we're recording this the ORS
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have just recently had the 2024 end of
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year tour and everyone talks about how
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long the tour is and how by the time
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they got to the final game against Italy
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they're all fatigued geez you must think
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they're
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soft four and a half months it's crazy
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the point was that we were playing two
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games a week and and um having to pack
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up and travel twice a week as well so it
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was it was constant constantly on on the
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go and um and we only had 30 players two
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two teams of 15 so if you if you got
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injures injuries um players had to back
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up they'd either be playing or they'd be
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on the bench midweek and I remember
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Billy Bush at one stage on one of our
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tours play play was involved in eight
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games in a row we we was either playing
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or or on the bench and and um never
00:12:02
getting a break you know front row
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forward so so that was the nature of the
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Beast um that long tour we we only had
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one coach one manager uh we had a
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baggage man no doctor no
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physiotherapist uh as you can imagine
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logistically it was it was very
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difficult and and um but the players all
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had to mck in you know if you didn't
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have those guys um then then you the
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players had to do it and um you know
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with our one coach in in
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7273 Bob Duff who was an all black lock
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forward before his coaching career and U
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we had a whole lot of young backs Grant
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baddy Bruce Robertson Joe carum myself
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an Hurst and and a number of others um
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he'd just say you backs go over there
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and do some moves and then we'll see you
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later and we were we were 20 2 one years
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old you know and coaching ourselves you
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know so it was uh pretty pretty
00:13:05
challenging but you were you were
00:13:06
wellfed because obviously the team
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nutritionalist and chefs had you on a a
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good a good diet uh what nutritionalist
00:13:15
what
00:13:17
chefs yeah wow I I can't wait to um sink
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our teeth into the the touring side of
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things because it's just a different
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world isn't it um but let's go all the
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way back to the beginning so you're born
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in um October 1950 y and in in ponson b
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um where you now the area you live in
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now is sort of on the fringes of ponon
00:13:34
be it's called West Meir yeah um but
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more or less Pon what what what are your
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very earliest
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memories um my my parents uh you know
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they came uh to to New Zealand uh during
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their teenage years and and dad was sent
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up here to enlist in the um the war
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effort for the second world war and um
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mom's uh situation her dad and
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fortunately was um badly injured in a
00:14:01
hurricane in raratonga where they were
00:14:04
living and where my mom was born and um
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so they ended up coming uh to New
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Zealand um on an assisted passage uh
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Granddad used to work for the New
00:14:15
Zealand government up in raratonga um
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and and of course Mom and Dad met uh
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early um they managed to buy a house
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with a state advances loan back in those
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days in ponsonby right in the heart of
00:14:32
ponsonby O'Neal street ponsonby and um
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so that that's where we were bought up
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in the early days um went to Richmond
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Road uh School primary school and um
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then eventually um my brothers and I
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went off to mount Alber grammar school
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were you were you a good
00:14:50
kid I think I was a good kid I um you
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know when when you get involved in in
00:14:55
sports uh particularly um uh uh that
00:14:59
that's going to keep you occupied for a
00:15:01
fair amount of the time uh my mom played
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piano so we'd often have um uh you know
00:15:07
sing alongs around the the piano and and
00:15:11
um so there was always um you know lots
00:15:14
of music lots of sport um a fair
00:15:18
emphasis on on Academia you know wanting
00:15:20
wanting to do really well at school so I
00:15:23
I was a good kid I think and um you know
00:15:26
I ended up becoming uh a prefect and and
00:15:30
head prefect and that sort of thing um
00:15:33
and then much the same uh when I went
00:15:35
went off to secondary school yeah what
00:15:38
was the most trouble you got in can you
00:15:40
remember um even even good kids have bad
00:15:43
days no you know back in the days of
00:15:46
capital punishment um you know Mom
00:15:49
particularly she she had a a suo one of
00:15:52
those uh Island brooms and and if you
00:15:55
got those around your legs you you knew
00:15:56
all about it or or she had a little
00:15:59
wooden brush you know so um you know if
00:16:04
you uh weren't toing the line you you
00:16:06
sure uh felt it so you learn pretty
00:16:09
quickly well you learn you learn pretty
00:16:11
quick yeah and was it a bilingual
00:16:13
household no it wasn't unfortunately and
00:16:16
and that's one of my great regrets that
00:16:19
um Dad was brought up in sore so he
00:16:22
spoke sore and and and mom was um
00:16:24
brought up in raratonga and she spoke
00:16:27
raratonga so they they couldn't actually
00:16:30
um speak each other's lingo and of
00:16:33
course you come to New Zealand and um
00:16:37
being a Pacific Islander in New Zealand
00:16:39
back in those days uh wasn't um very
00:16:43
fashionable at all you know you were you
00:16:45
were workers and and and troublemakers
00:16:49
really and and um so so being Pacifica
00:16:53
uh you know so you weren't encouraged to
00:16:56
to show your culture to to speak to
00:16:58
language um but fortunately all all that
00:17:02
has has changed now but back then it was
00:17:04
pretty difficult yeah so you just try
00:17:06
and blend in as best you can blend in
00:17:08
and and become um you know
00:17:10
Europeans yeah it's funny so um I had
00:17:13
Kevin Mamu on the the podcast a few
00:17:15
weeks ago and um he said one of his
00:17:17
biggest regrets in life is not knowing
00:17:18
the language because he was he was same
00:17:20
sort of thing his parents um came to New
00:17:22
Zealand moved to TOA um and he just
00:17:24
never had the opportunity to learn it
00:17:26
and um he I got the sense me feels like
00:17:29
it's some sort of deep sort of Shame and
00:17:31
regret about not knowing the language
00:17:33
yeah yeah um well that's interesting
00:17:35
because I I pretty much feel feel the
00:17:38
same way and um one of my only sister
00:17:42
Lorraine has ended up um going up and
00:17:45
living in sore she'd been up there for
00:17:46
the last 40 43 years something like that
00:17:50
uh but she doesn't speak the S language
00:17:52
either because we never learned it uh as
00:17:55
kids yeah you never had the chance and
00:17:57
what was possibly like back then P Pon
00:18:00
now it's a very very well-to-do suburb
00:18:03
most houses have a plunge pool out the
00:18:05
back now well initially um it it was a
00:18:08
European uh neighborhood um and then we
00:18:12
had that um you know big migration of P
00:18:15
Pacifica people um after after the
00:18:19
second world war and um yeah late 50s
00:18:22
early 60s ponon be became a a Pacifica
00:18:27
um um part of Oakland and um you you go
00:18:32
up to Pon road back in those days and it
00:18:34
was pretty much spot the
00:18:36
parangi yeah it was and and now of
00:18:39
course it's it's quite quite the
00:18:40
opposite um you know in the probably the
00:18:43
80s I suppose um you know all the
00:18:46
developers started to come into um uh
00:18:50
Pon and and develop the houses refurbish
00:18:53
them and and then Pon Road became the um
00:18:57
restaurant and Cafe capital of of
00:19:00
Oakland and um so it changed again so
00:19:04
I've seen some real transition over uh
00:19:07
pby and you know people used to say well
00:19:11
you know we're moving to Northshore
00:19:13
we're moving oh I said I'm staying I'm
00:19:15
staying in pby this is my
00:19:17
home oh you've got a fabulous spot too
00:19:20
overlooking Cox's Bay beautiful
00:19:22
beautiful spot and it and it is your
00:19:24
home yeah you born and bred there um
00:19:26
you're part of the fabric with the
00:19:27
ponies Club yeah why would you move
00:19:29
anywhere else well exactly Cox's Bay
00:19:32
wasn't so much where I was born um
00:19:35
O'Neal street Pony you know was
00:19:39
was where we were brought up and and um
00:19:43
yeah I still take my grand grandchildren
00:19:45
down there from time to time and just
00:19:47
show them the old house and I suppose
00:19:50
you were you were um busy being um this
00:19:52
this famous flashy or black at the time
00:19:54
but do you have any Recollections of the
00:19:56
Dawn raids yeah I do um yeah it was a a
00:20:00
shameful period of of uh of of New
00:20:04
Zealand history really and and um as as
00:20:08
mentioned before you know being uh
00:20:10
Pacifica in New Zealand uh during those
00:20:13
times what wasn't very fashionable at
00:20:16
all you you were frowned upon and uh um
00:20:20
yeah so uh to to see that unfold uh was
00:20:24
very sad and unpalatable I must say you
00:20:29
being being um like a well a well-known
00:20:31
um New Zealander at the time like were
00:20:33
you able to to like voice your disgust
00:20:36
about it or anything or well I did I
00:20:39
guess uh to to my circle of people I I I
00:20:43
was still in the OR blacks and
00:20:46
relatively young or black I guess at
00:20:48
that stage so um I I hadn't become uh
00:20:52
you know very vocal about things like
00:20:55
that um and and I probably should have I
00:20:59
should have done said more from what I
00:21:02
can gather about you you you were quite
00:21:03
shy at the time as well well I I was shy
00:21:06
uh initially and and um I Won't Say I'm
00:21:09
shy now
00:21:11
and well sometimes it takes a while to
00:21:13
grow into the person you well it does
00:21:15
and and you know you um that all black
00:21:18
career uh gave me uh confidence and and
00:21:22
you know particularly in in public
00:21:24
speaking I I remember um you know the
00:21:27
first time I had to get up and and make
00:21:29
a speech and I I I was a blithering
00:21:32
idiot you know and and and sweating and
00:21:35
and um you know couldn't put two
00:21:38
sentences together and and um but but
00:21:41
you learn you learn how to do things
00:21:43
like that and you gain confidence and
00:21:45
then you realize that people are
00:21:47
actually listening to what you've got to
00:21:49
say and and you can use that platform um
00:21:53
you know politically or or otherwise
00:21:56
yeah what are your memories of making
00:21:58
the for the very first time how how was
00:22:00
it done back then was it was it a radio
00:22:02
announcement did you get a phone call no
00:22:04
no it was um a series of of all black
00:22:07
trials and in beginning of 1970 um we
00:22:11
had a a number of preseason games um
00:22:15
before the uh tour and um I I was asked
00:22:20
to play for various teams my my um all
00:22:23
black um Club mate um Malcolm dick who
00:22:28
who'd been in the old blacks for a
00:22:29
number of years he he um managed to get
00:22:32
me invited to play in different games
00:22:36
you you know he told them there's this
00:22:37
young kid who looks as if he might be
00:22:39
okay and um so so those games sort of
00:22:44
became pseudo trials and and then we had
00:22:48
a an all black trial uh in um paliston
00:22:51
north um and then the final trial at
00:22:56
Athletic Park in in Wellington in 96
00:22:59
and after the game um I didn't score a
00:23:03
try in either of those uh trials but I I
00:23:06
played pretty good and um you you go
00:23:09
into under the um grandstand at Athletic
00:23:13
Park it used to be a big sort of
00:23:15
concrete uh jungle it was awful it was
00:23:18
awful it was cold and
00:23:21
miserable and um you all congregate
00:23:24
there and and the uh the chairman or the
00:23:27
president gets up and and uh here is the
00:23:30
all black team to to South Africa
00:23:34
1970 you and of course my name was uh
00:23:37
alphabetically right down the
00:23:40
bottom so it might have taken a while to
00:23:43
come out but eventually I was named were
00:23:45
you expecting to be named no I I wasn't
00:23:48
I I knew I'd um made a bit of an
00:23:50
impression but um you know i' I'd um I
00:23:55
was hoping to be named I I played all
00:23:57
right in the trial and
00:23:59
um but um I'd had my hand stood on
00:24:04
during the final trial and of course
00:24:07
when my name was read out everyone came
00:24:09
and started shaking that hand and know I
00:24:11
was I thought gez I hope I haven't
00:24:13
broken it fortunately I hadn't broken it
00:24:16
but uh yeah the handshakes and of course
00:24:19
you know the the New Zealand men's
00:24:22
handshake sometimes they they grip It
00:24:24
Like a Rock oh my God yeah imagine Colin
00:24:27
me
00:24:29
when it's already sore um how many how
00:24:31
many Pacifica or were there before you
00:24:34
well there had been a few um but very
00:24:37
few um the Solomon Brothers back in the
00:24:41
1930s Frank and Dave who both were Pon
00:24:45
players by the way and um Walter batty
00:24:48
he was a a tongen back in the
00:24:50
1930s um Arthur Jennings uh he was in
00:24:54
the 67 or blacks a Fijian um
00:24:58
extract and um and then I think George
00:25:02
scut might have been just before me so
00:25:04
there were very very few you know over
00:25:08
um many decades so so you know to
00:25:12
finally be named and particularly uh in
00:25:15
the team to go to South Africa was was
00:25:17
sort of History
00:25:18
making yeah I I had no idea about this
00:25:21
until I um yeah flick through your book
00:25:23
but um yeah this is disgraceful you you
00:25:25
were granted um what was it called like
00:25:28
on honorary white status honorary white
00:25:32
status huh what what's that yeah how did
00:25:35
that make you feel at the time wow I
00:25:39
thought
00:25:40
you why why I know what I am you could
00:25:44
you're just trying to um justify uh your
00:25:47
abhorrent um political system of apti
00:25:50
but that's what you want to call me go
00:25:53
ahead I'm I'm an all black and I'm I'm
00:25:56
samon and I'm going to uh doing my best
00:25:59
yeah being the only some on the the old
00:26:02
black team like you didn't feel any
00:26:04
different in a you you just felt like
00:26:06
one of the one of the guys oh well initi
00:26:08
yeah I'm still 19 years old Dom and um
00:26:12
you know playing alongside guys who are
00:26:14
absolutely idolized for for you know the
00:26:17
previous decade so so you know really
00:26:21
worried about that whether whether I'd
00:26:23
measure up or not and and then of course
00:26:26
going to a part South Africa
00:26:29
um just wondering how how you're going
00:26:31
to be treated so when when the plane
00:26:33
touched down in Joe BG I've told a story
00:26:35
many times I I actually had a panic
00:26:37
attack and I I I didn't want to get off
00:26:40
the plane and and I virtually had to be
00:26:42
coaxed off off the plane by uh by my
00:26:45
teammates uh and
00:26:48
and you know took one step after the
00:26:50
other and before I knew it um you know
00:26:53
out on the field scoring a try and I was
00:26:56
an nor
00:26:58
what did that panic attack look
00:27:00
like
00:27:02
ah extreme uh fear um
00:27:07
sweating um just absolutely tense uh
00:27:13
awful I feel like when you talk about it
00:27:15
you almost um go back there being that
00:27:17
19y old kid absolutely yeah yeah yeah
00:27:21
yeah something I didn't think about
00:27:22
before like when I asked you if you if
00:27:23
you felt like a like a minority or an
00:27:25
outsider on the team yeah I can't
00:27:26
imagine the Imposter syndr you know
00:27:29
being a 19-year old kid and you're
00:27:30
playing with um you these these men that
00:27:32
you grew up like watching on TV or
00:27:34
listening to on the radio or whatever it
00:27:35
happened to be well as mentioned I I was
00:27:37
very shy at that stage and and um just
00:27:41
just being in the company of of Colin Ms
00:27:43
and Brian La hor and and so many of the
00:27:45
other all black Legends was was daunting
00:27:49
uh for me and and you know unable to
00:27:53
string two sentences together so I
00:27:57
remember rooming with Chris LW uh
00:27:59
several times on that tour
00:28:01
and the the conversation was very very
00:28:05
limited you between us because I was so
00:28:09
quiet and and uh yeah so oh that's
00:28:14
adorable can you remember your first
00:28:15
meeting with um like laor and mes well I
00:28:19
I I didn't know how to address either of
00:28:21
them I knew BJ um that that was his
00:28:25
nickname and and U Pine tree or Mr mes
00:28:29
or Sir Colin or Mr tree Mr tree yeah so
00:28:35
yeah it was pretty pretty uh difficult
00:28:39
and did you work out at the time like I
00:28:40
know um you know JY JY gym workouts
00:28:43
weren't really necessarily or weight
00:28:44
training wasn't really a thing back then
00:28:46
but your legs were huge yeah well I I um
00:28:49
when I was at mags manab gramar um the
00:28:52
coach Eugene cheran uh he was a real um
00:28:58
supporter and adherent of of um weight
00:29:00
training as as a um as as a Training
00:29:04
Method and um so we had a weightlifting
00:29:07
room at Mount Albert grar and I I was
00:29:09
down there frequently um I I got
00:29:13
reasonably reasonably strong um and and
00:29:17
um yeah yeah your legs were your legs
00:29:20
were massive they're like tree trunks
00:29:22
well yeah my legs I guess that that
00:29:25
that's a Pacifica Island
00:29:28
thing you know um heavily muscled and
00:29:32
and generally you know fast twitched
00:29:34
fiber and um so so that lzy came
00:29:39
naturally um but yeah I ended up with
00:29:42
with these big thighs yeah they came in
00:29:44
handy too um can you remember what it
00:29:47
was like putting the old black Jersey on
00:29:49
for the first time what was the what was
00:29:50
the process were you presented it by
00:29:52
like the team manager or the coach like
00:29:54
they are now or yeah yeah we were um
00:29:58
presented it in that manner and um and
00:30:01
and oh it was just awesome I I remember
00:30:04
going back to the room and um just being
00:30:08
absolutely all struck and and before I
00:30:11
knew it I was I was out on the field and
00:30:14
I've got to say I was really
00:30:16
fortunate it was uh not not a very
00:30:20
difficult team we were playing but the
00:30:22
first time I got the ball I had a a
00:30:23
clear run of about maybe 25 30 m to to
00:30:27
score try and uh you I could run I I
00:30:30
knew I was quick so I I ran as fast as I
00:30:34
could and put the ball down and um and
00:30:36
then later in the game I I scored a
00:30:39
second try so off you off the field you
00:30:42
go and um they're patting you on the
00:30:44
back and saying you're one of us now
00:30:45
mate good boy you're an all black oh
00:30:48
thank heavens you know yeah I'm accepted
00:30:52
been long now um yeah that was a yeah
00:30:55
the your memories of the game like what
00:30:57
was the crowd like was it a massive
00:30:58
Crowd Oh it's I I don't even remember
00:31:02
too much about the crowd it was only it
00:31:04
was called the Paul Roose 15 at a place
00:31:07
called Bethlehem of all places and and
00:31:10
um uh relatively small crowd but but the
00:31:14
ground seemed to be full um yeah so so
00:31:18
uh that that's certainly what I remember
00:31:21
and and the crowd was um you were quite
00:31:23
well received by the crowd like there
00:31:24
was no there's no booing or anything
00:31:26
because of your skin color no no um but
00:31:30
with apartheid what what tended to
00:31:32
happen was that the the black and
00:31:33
colored people had to sit at the end
00:31:35
ends of the ground um and and of course
00:31:38
the the whites were were in the grand
00:31:40
stands and whatever so that that was a
00:31:43
bit difficult to take
00:31:45
um but of course when you scored a try
00:31:49
it was right in front of um your fans
00:31:52
you know the the colored and and black
00:31:54
community of South Africa so um was
00:31:58
interesting yeah it's um it's amazing so
00:32:01
it's it's only really recent history but
00:32:03
it's yeah shocking to think that this
00:32:05
was going on yeah it is shocking and um
00:32:09
you know to see um what happened in
00:32:12
South Africa you know Nelson Mandela was
00:32:15
was still on Robin Island in prison uh
00:32:18
during those tours you know 1970 and
00:32:20
1976 so to see what happened we we had
00:32:24
that awful 1981 tour here in New Zealand
00:32:29
and um I think uh that made people
00:32:32
really sit up and take notice about uh
00:32:35
you know kiwis weren't going to tolerate
00:32:37
it anymore and um and then of course
00:32:41
Mandela was was um released from prison
00:32:45
and and ended up becoming the the
00:32:47
president as as we all know oh one of
00:32:49
one of the icons um one of the world
00:32:51
icons of the last 100 years absolutely
00:32:53
so yeah so so in in in 1970 when when
00:32:56
you're 19 and you go over there as an
00:32:58
all black are you even aware of who
00:32:59
Nelson Mandela is I I like to think I I
00:33:03
you know I I was a law student and I was
00:33:06
hopefully starting to become more
00:33:08
worldly about um more knowledgeable
00:33:11
about um things but um we we'd heard
00:33:15
about um you know 1960 and the shville
00:33:20
um Massacre and um 1970 there there was
00:33:24
trouble before our tour um
00:33:28
so I like to think I I you know knew
00:33:32
knew a
00:33:33
bit and so 1981 that's the year your
00:33:36
your book came out um that's also yeah
00:33:38
the year of the um the spring B Tour to
00:33:40
New Zealand that you're talking about I
00:33:42
I was um like seven eight years old at
00:33:45
the time so I've got very limited
00:33:46
memories of it but um yeah what what are
00:33:48
what are your Recollections of it that
00:33:50
period of time well that that obviously
00:33:52
divided um kiwis uh awfully really and
00:33:57
and even even amongst families you know
00:33:59
some people were for it some were
00:34:02
against it some people felt that um um
00:34:06
you
00:34:07
know politics shouldn't be bought into
00:34:10
sport um but I I think from my
00:34:14
perspective it became very clear that
00:34:17
that um that uh simple simple uh
00:34:22
explanation was wasn't going to wash
00:34:24
that that um and I think we all realize
00:34:27
that um you know life uh is is politics
00:34:31
it's sport it's everything and and
00:34:33
you've got to you've got to you know
00:34:35
take it all into
00:34:36
account hey thanks for sharing those
00:34:38
insights so um a um yeah paint a picture
00:34:42
of what an old blacks tour looked like
00:34:44
in the 1970s so you play the game then
00:34:46
then then what do you do um you out on
00:34:49
the beers yeah pretty
00:34:52
much uh back back in those days um you
00:34:56
know you you more this had to make your
00:34:58
own fun after a game you'd have a beer
00:35:01
and and um jump on the bus go back to
00:35:04
the hotel and and get into the team room
00:35:08
and and um i' i' I used to take my
00:35:12
guitar on on tour and and uh we'd have a
00:35:15
sing song and and uh
00:35:19
probably few more beers and then go go
00:35:21
for dinner um but back back in those
00:35:25
days you know going to nightclubs and
00:35:27
what ever uh wasn't wasn't really um the
00:35:30
done thing so much I often used to just
00:35:33
settle back into the team room and uh
00:35:36
and and get the guitar out and we' we'd
00:35:38
sing our way into the evening and and um
00:35:42
have a few more beers and and what are
00:35:44
you eating like the day of a the day of
00:35:45
a game what are you like is it steak and
00:35:47
EES for breakfast or well
00:35:50
yes it was it it it seemed to be a
00:35:53
staple that that you had a steak uh
00:35:56
frequently um too late you know maybe 2
00:36:01
and a half hours before before the game
00:36:04
and you you'd burp your way through the
00:36:06
first
00:36:07
half and then the energy would would
00:36:09
kick in in the second half you know and
00:36:12
did you get paid like per DMS or
00:36:14
anything like like a day you get paid a
00:36:16
couple of like dollars a day well we did
00:36:19
yeah it might have been I I think in in
00:36:22
South Africa 1970 it was around 50 a day
00:36:25
so we'd line up at the end of the
00:36:28
uh the week and um and you'd have to
00:36:30
sign for 10 R50 which was worth about
00:36:34
you know four or five dollars new New
00:36:37
Zealand and you know I mean it didn't
00:36:40
buy much so yes so everyone had jobs
00:36:43
back in New Zealand
00:36:45
so you had to take like months and
00:36:47
months off work at a time
00:36:49
yeah what used to happen in the in the
00:36:52
so-called amateur era was that the clubs
00:36:55
would would rally round and and um they
00:36:59
do some fundraising for you and then
00:37:01
they present you with this this gift um
00:37:05
take away to but for those who who were
00:37:08
living uh for working and and uh farming
00:37:12
and that sort of thing I mean you you
00:37:13
had to uh keep the home fires burning
00:37:16
and frequently um the wives and families
00:37:20
had to um cover for you um you had no
00:37:26
income coming in other than your 10 R50
00:37:29
a week which wasn't going to go very far
00:37:31
so um you know I mean that that's what
00:37:36
ultimately um turned the game towards
00:37:39
professionalism the fact that um there
00:37:41
were too many people having to make um
00:37:43
two bigger sacrifices while the rugby
00:37:46
Unions would would generally um reap all
00:37:50
the rewards and and uh and the players
00:37:52
Next To None and how did you communicate
00:37:56
like back home with your wife and family
00:37:57
at that time is you writing letters or
00:37:59
is it the occasional phone call writing
00:38:01
letters yeah phone calls were real
00:38:03
expensive right they were real expensive
00:38:04
initially and and um yes so were so so
00:38:09
largely writing letters and postcards
00:38:12
wow has you did your wife keeping in
00:38:13
them yeah we we've still got some some
00:38:16
of the letters unreal yeah yeah yeah I
00:38:19
I've tended to be a bit of a hoarder of
00:38:22
of uh you know those sorts of things and
00:38:25
memorabilia and and photos and and
00:38:29
scrapbooks and you name it oh that's so
00:38:32
cool what have you what have you got
00:38:33
what have you got in your what are your
00:38:35
favorite bits of memorabilia you got
00:38:36
your first all black all black Jersey uh
00:38:39
yep yep got that um oh as as mentioned I
00:38:43
I we we swap swap jerseys after games
00:38:46
with with your opponents I've got a a
00:38:48
bit of a collection at home and and um
00:38:51
I've donated a lot of jerseys to the
00:38:53
ponsonby club I've I've donated uh
00:38:56
jerseys and and and Blazers and what
00:38:58
have you to various other organizations
00:39:01
and um yeah so so um what I've always
00:39:06
believed is it's it's pointless keeping
00:39:08
them in a draw somewhere you know
00:39:11
just give them to people or or let them
00:39:14
display them and and um let people enjoy
00:39:17
them yeah now let's talk about some um
00:39:19
some of your teammates and um in
00:39:21
particular some incidents as well so
00:39:23
Colin Ms you were you were in that game
00:39:25
where this is in like New Zealand be
00:39:27
folklore he broke his arm and kept on
00:39:29
playing yeah is that right have I got
00:39:31
the story right yep yep yep yes you have
00:39:35
what what happened what's oh well
00:39:36
someone obviously um he feels he he was
00:39:40
targeted they they got him down the
00:39:42
bottom of a rock and and stood on his
00:39:45
arm and um broke it and and uh of course
00:39:49
he he's a very tough man was a very
00:39:51
tough man and uh refused to leave the
00:39:54
field and and and then of course
00:39:59
um during the rest of the tour he came
00:40:01
had to come back way too early to start
00:40:03
playing again and and he did so with the
00:40:06
help of a uh some sort of arm arm guard
00:40:10
and
00:40:11
um yeah but uh he he was I've got to say
00:40:15
he was playing absolutely magnificent
00:40:17
rugby uh when when that happened and I I
00:40:20
still believe to this day if he'd have
00:40:22
stayed fit uh we' have we' have won the
00:40:25
series yeah and um oh Keith Murdoch he
00:40:28
was a teammate and and a friend of yours
00:40:30
were you were you on the tour where he
00:40:33
got sent home yes I was yeah what was
00:40:35
the story with that for anyone that
00:40:36
doesn't remember myself
00:40:38
included well we we just had a a great
00:40:41
victory over Wales at at Carter Farms
00:40:44
Park and um um L late in the evening
00:40:48
there hadd been a lot of um ill will I
00:40:51
suppose expressed during the evening uh
00:40:54
the fact that um you know we we' beaten
00:40:57
Wales and and that Wales team was was
00:41:01
the uh the bulk of the the team that had
00:41:04
beat New Zealand in
00:41:06
1971 for the Lions and they they
00:41:10
believed they were going to do it again
00:41:13
they they very nearly did I think the
00:41:14
school was 1916 but um we came through
00:41:18
and one so there was lots of um anti
00:41:21
feeling during the evening um Keith uh
00:41:25
later in the evening went went to the
00:41:27
kitchen looking for some food before he
00:41:30
went to bed and uh he was um confronted
00:41:33
by a security guard and they ended up
00:41:36
having a bit of a tet and then uh
00:41:40
um Keith decided that uh it needed to go
00:41:46
further so he he B he bopped apparently
00:41:49
bopped the uh security guard and of
00:41:52
course uh as a result of that he ended
00:41:55
up getting sent home but um
00:41:57
the next day um things had supposedly um
00:42:02
been resolved and settled and and um
00:42:07
Keith was staying on on the tour and
00:42:09
then uh when we went to go to training
00:42:11
on the Monday morning um Ernie Todd who
00:42:15
was a manager jumped on the bus and
00:42:17
announced to us all that Keith was going
00:42:19
home and
00:42:20
um uh all the boys jumped out of the bus
00:42:24
again and you know but pretty much by
00:42:26
then
00:42:27
um the the die was
00:42:30
cast and and he didn't come back to New
00:42:32
Zealand he he he he stopped off uh in
00:42:37
Australia somewhere up in Darwin I think
00:42:39
he might have got off the plane and uh
00:42:42
and and then made his life uh out in the
00:42:45
Outbacks of Australia yeah sort of spent
00:42:47
the rest of his life in hiding did you
00:42:49
did you keep in touch or did you ever
00:42:50
speak to him again or no I didn't no um
00:42:52
it's a very sad story eh well it is yeah
00:42:55
um but
00:42:57
um having said that he he was always the
00:43:01
type of guy who liked um going off by
00:43:05
himself fishing or hunting or that sort
00:43:08
of thing and and doing his own thing um
00:43:12
so you know uh he might have ended up
00:43:15
doing that back in New Zealand or but
00:43:18
that that that was generally his his
00:43:20
lifestyle oh I like being a loner yeah
00:43:22
but pretty much yeah so he he was going
00:43:25
to be S was he yeah I suppose this is
00:43:27
just speculating but do you think he was
00:43:29
scared of like coming home and facing
00:43:30
the media or the music or I don't know I
00:43:33
I don't know what would have been in his
00:43:35
is mine but um quite possibly he didn't
00:43:39
want to come home and have to face that
00:43:42
yeah it's crazy to think like CU this is
00:43:44
pre- interet pre-social Media so it
00:43:46
would have been just a few photographers
00:43:48
with flash bulbs at the airport
00:43:49
potentially yeah that's right yeah very
00:43:51
sad oh um I don't even know if you in
00:43:54
this game or not but um so Andy Hayden
00:43:57
um I I uh wrote on my Instagram that you
00:44:00
were coming in here today for a podcast
00:44:02
and um a good friend of mine Laura who's
00:44:03
andri daughter Laura well um she she
00:44:06
said to say hi she said you were best
00:44:07
man at at the wedding um you were Andy
00:44:10
and Trisha's first flat mate one of
00:44:12
their flatmates um and you did a eulogy
00:44:15
um were you were you in the game where
00:44:17
he did the line out dive yeah yeah
00:44:20
what's what are your Recollections of
00:44:22
that well my Recollections of it was
00:44:24
that uh I didn't even see it and and I
00:44:28
was on the left wing which was the side
00:44:31
where the line out took place and um I
00:44:35
remember um when when the game was over
00:44:39
um got back into the changing room and
00:44:42
and someone said did you see that and I
00:44:45
said did I see what I just see Andy jump
00:44:49
out of the line out no no what happened
00:44:53
I I hadn't even I had had no inkling
00:44:56
about what what had happened and uh and
00:45:00
then of course all hell broke loose
00:45:03
thereafter you could get away with stuff
00:45:05
back then you can't get away with
00:45:07
anything now no no no yeah oh that's
00:45:10
funny he's a good man eh yeah well and
00:45:13
Trisha were great great mates that we we
00:45:15
lived together for four years back in
00:45:17
the day and lesie and I bought a house
00:45:20
um over in um westm um Oban road back in
00:45:24
the day and um Andy and Trish were were
00:45:27
our flat mates and um then we bought a
00:45:30
place um down down where we are now by
00:45:32
Cox Bay and Andy in game and live with
00:45:35
us for a uh oh maybe a couple of years
00:45:39
before they went off to France yeah so
00:45:41
you you retired at
00:45:42
28 was that was that old to retire back
00:45:45
then or was that standard or was it
00:45:47
young uh was your career cut short I'd
00:45:51
had that hip dislocation in um 1977
00:45:55
which was a year before and um
00:45:57
it had become pretty apparent that my
00:45:59
place in the OR blacks was was under
00:46:02
under severe strain and and threat and
00:46:06
um so so I uh I pretty pretty much
00:46:10
decided that that was the end of my all
00:46:12
black career i' had over 100 games for
00:46:14
the All Blacks at that stage and um with
00:46:17
with the dislocation my speed had gone
00:46:20
and you know wasn't very Elusive and um
00:46:23
so I I I knew time was up on the or
00:46:26
black career but I I still played Club
00:46:28
rugby and I still played for Oakland for
00:46:31
for a number of Seasons after
00:46:33
that it it was a hell of a career um you
00:46:36
just going through that book like um
00:46:39
yeah you were a big deal like you you
00:46:40
were called later on like the Jon alomo
00:46:42
of the 70s like um you were like proper
00:46:45
famous like for a time in the era like
00:46:47
the most famous guy in New Zealand
00:46:48
pretty much oh I don't know about that
00:46:50
but I I I certainly um you know Les and
00:46:54
I couldn't go out anywhere without
00:46:57
people coming up and and um you know
00:46:59
wanting autographs or selfies yeah well
00:47:03
not so much selfies and those days no no
00:47:05
selfies but um I'd I'd frequently um end
00:47:09
up somewhere and and someone um would
00:47:12
bow me up in a corner somewhere and
00:47:14
lesie would be over the other side of
00:47:16
the room and she'd be looking at me and
00:47:17
I'd be looking back at her and and um I
00:47:21
I was too polite actually D to to say to
00:47:24
people listen mate that's my girlfriend
00:47:27
over there I've got to go or that's my
00:47:28
wife over there I've I've got to go um I
00:47:31
was too polite and um yeah so it it uh
00:47:36
it it it was a real um um yeah yeah it's
00:47:42
the sort of I suppose the downside of
00:47:43
Fame in a
00:47:45
way or or is it just being do you think
00:47:47
at the time for you it was being a
00:47:48
people pleaser and well was being a
00:47:51
people pleaser but I I you wasn't um
00:47:54
famous like Yono but um
00:47:58
yeah pretty people you know wanted
00:48:00
wanted to come and say hello and and
00:48:03
have a photo and um sign autographs and
00:48:06
all that sort of stuff you what's what
00:48:08
what's it like when you go so you go
00:48:09
from um just being a regular at a school
00:48:11
kid making the O at 19 blowing up being
00:48:14
a big star and then it sort of um yeah
00:48:16
pet us off um was that transition like
00:48:20
hard or was it quite enjoyable um well I
00:48:24
I like to think I I always uh kept my
00:48:27
equilibrium my balance um and and just
00:48:31
realizing that um you know Fame is
00:48:34
fleeting and um you know some people
00:48:37
will love you some won't some will hate
00:48:39
you and um yeah so I've always been
00:48:42
pretty philosophical really about life
00:48:45
and I'm a liberan so you know balance is
00:48:49
is a key key word my my existence are
00:48:52
you a horoscope guy
00:48:55
oh didn't pick you to be a star sign guy
00:48:58
no I I read my horoscope from time to
00:49:01
time do you oh that's awesome what was
00:49:04
it today
00:49:07
oh I did read it did you actually yeah
00:49:11
oh that's C up so you so you finished
00:49:13
playing rugby and then um yeah we sort
00:49:16
of alluded before to the you the
00:49:18
pressure of like guys finishing rugby
00:49:19
now and just the the whole it lives in
00:49:21
their life but um I suppose in a sense
00:49:23
for you back then it was kind of a
00:49:24
relief it's like right now I can sort of
00:49:26
knuckle down and focus on my my law
00:49:27
career what sort of law were you doing
00:49:30
oh I did mainly conveyancing you know
00:49:32
buying and selling of houses and small
00:49:35
businesses um Estates when people pass
00:49:38
on and um um yeah pretty much um the
00:49:44
standard Fair of of a lawyer who doesn't
00:49:47
go to court oh and you did you run a
00:49:50
motel for a while as well no we did we
00:49:51
ran a a motel um uh not very
00:49:55
successfully happened to coincide with
00:49:58
the share market crash of 1987 yeah so
00:50:03
um that that that uh provided a few uh
00:50:07
life's lessons shall I say yeah no one
00:50:10
no one gets through life without going
00:50:12
through some sort of um adversity a no
00:50:14
they don't and and I've got to say that
00:50:17
um while it was tough going through it
00:50:19
at the time um I look back now and say
00:50:21
well yeah I'm I'm probably pleased that
00:50:24
I I had to go through that because you
00:50:27
realize um you know life life isn't all
00:50:31
Wine and Roses oh what happened did you
00:50:34
lose your dough oh we lost we lost a
00:50:36
fair amount of dough um but fortunately
00:50:39
we we escaped uh by the skin of our
00:50:42
teeth and um we're able to to carry on
00:50:46
and and um you know build up again and
00:50:49
you ended up um the president of the New
00:50:51
Zealand Rugby Union in 2011 what what
00:50:54
did that job entail what did that mean
00:50:56
uh president's ly a figurehead uh role
00:50:59
um that sounds like my sort a
00:51:02
job so so generally the one who will
00:51:05
will shake the hands and present the cup
00:51:07
and and give the give the nice speeches
00:51:11
and and um welcome welcome people so so
00:51:14
that that that was nice yeah enjoy that
00:51:17
must have been a good that was a hell of
00:51:18
a tournament that must have been a great
00:51:19
time yeah it was and and um you know you
00:51:23
you do two years as vice president and
00:51:26
and two years as president so I I sat
00:51:28
around the board table for four years um
00:51:31
had a pretty interesting uh time you
00:51:33
know 2009 to 2012 why was that an
00:51:37
interesting time oh just just well the
00:51:39
World Cup being in in New Zealand and um
00:51:43
co coinciding uh with with you know an
00:51:46
up up turn and in all black fortunes
00:51:49
really yeah CU after 2007 Les and I um
00:51:55
we led a black supporters party in 2007
00:51:59
so we were at at um Cardiff the day the
00:52:02
French beat us in 2007 so that was a
00:52:05
very um dim sad
00:52:09
day yeah can you remember um yeah as a
00:52:13
proud ex or black like what what you
00:52:15
thought at that time like did you think
00:52:17
CU back then we had a sort of a history
00:52:19
of um like sacking a coach a coach had
00:52:21
one shot at a World Cup yeah and and
00:52:23
Graham Henry sort of bucked that Trend
00:52:25
at 20 7 can you remember how you thought
00:52:28
do did you think get get rid of him he's
00:52:29
had his shot or were you sort of like oh
00:52:31
give him another turn it was amazing
00:52:33
what happened well well it was and and
00:52:35
he he would acknowledge that himself um
00:52:39
and and you know uh that was at the time
00:52:43
when players were taken out of um Super
00:52:46
Rugby uh to to have rest periods and
00:52:50
what have you and I don't think
00:52:52
ultimately um that that suited the team
00:52:56
or the place so probably paid the price
00:52:59
for that um but as as you say um in
00:53:03
their wisdom new rugby decided that um
00:53:06
Ted would stay on and um you know he he
00:53:10
repaid that faith in in
00:53:13
2011 that that was a hell of a
00:53:15
tournament hey what was it like being
00:53:17
president because you must have like you
00:53:19
know the news that we were getting in
00:53:21
the media you must have been getting
00:53:22
that beforehand so you knew that Rich's
00:53:23
foot was was busted um you knew that Dan
00:53:26
was no good you would have known all the
00:53:29
all the behind the scenes stuff it was a
00:53:31
crazy time well it was and and um you
00:53:34
know old
00:53:37
Beaver White baiting and and down on the
00:53:39
W River and and you know being asked to
00:53:43
come come up to training and bring bring
00:53:45
the white bait and and maybe be playing
00:53:47
in the F the World Cup final you know I
00:53:50
mean that's folklore it's beautiful
00:53:53
stuff and to see it play out like that
00:53:55
was was great great great to be part of
00:53:57
it but um that that night at Eden Park
00:54:01
you know when everyone was quiet and and
00:54:04
no one could speak and um Billy bont's
00:54:08
wife Hillary um was sitting beside
00:54:10
Leslie my my wife and and she why is
00:54:14
everyone gone quiet she
00:54:16
said Le he said oh they're nervous
00:54:19
they're very we're all very
00:54:22
nervous oh it was an awful game I
00:54:24
managed to buy um like because you had
00:54:26
to go on a ballot to get the tickets and
00:54:28
they were very hard to get I managed to
00:54:30
get ticket some tickets that came on
00:54:31
sale in the last week they were really
00:54:32
expensive too like 750 bucks each worst
00:54:35
investment of my life I mean it was a
00:54:36
great game but it was awful it was an
00:54:38
awful game to watch right well it was of
00:54:41
the seat stuff yeah the All Blacks
00:54:43
didn't play their best rugby they'
00:54:45
played their best rugby probably in the
00:54:47
semi-final yeah against Australia and
00:54:50
and um and um yeah so so it was touch
00:54:55
and go and um you know just a sheer
00:54:57
relief when that final whistle went so
00:55:00
good and in 2018 you were made a sir um
00:55:05
yeah yeah what was that like oh that
00:55:07
that that was um nice obviously um very
00:55:12
humbled by it I I uh I remember getting
00:55:16
the letter and and
00:55:19
and pushing it over to Li I said have a
00:55:21
look at that and and she had a look and
00:55:24
and then I said I can't accept it I
00:55:27
don't deserve
00:55:29
that and um so we we put the letter away
00:55:32
for a couple of weeks and um and then
00:55:36
you know you're thinking about it and
00:55:39
and then you you come to the conclusion
00:55:41
well it's actually not only about you
00:55:44
it's about uh the people who have helped
00:55:46
you there and um So eventually had to
00:55:51
rethink and um then you think well
00:55:55
you're going to disappoint a lot of
00:55:56
people if you don't accept it so um
00:56:00
wrote back and and uh yeah so and then I
00:56:04
accepted it were you really not going to
00:56:06
accept it yeah initially why oh I didn't
00:56:08
feel I i' I'd earned
00:56:11
it and I'll tell you what can I just say
00:56:13
you're a terrible sir as well whenever
00:56:14
anyone calls you sir Brian you correct
00:56:16
them just call me BG call me BG don't
00:56:19
you well that's that's that's who I am
00:56:23
what is it is that just like um a humble
00:56:25
humble some on thing oh it possibly is
00:56:29
um no but I I've
00:56:32
never tried to put myself on a pedestal
00:56:35
at all ever I I guess I don't
00:56:38
particularly like people who
00:56:41
do no that's fine but but you should
00:56:43
still um like own it like and embrace it
00:56:46
if someone calls you s oh yeah well well
00:56:48
they're are you know formal functions
00:56:50
where where it's appropriate and I'm I'm
00:56:53
happy enough in that setting but um just
00:56:56
everyday life you know if you're at the
00:56:58
supermarket and someone comes up S Brian
00:57:02
that's mate I'm B just now what can I do
00:57:05
for
00:57:06
you actually um I had I had another sir
00:57:09
um on the podcast a couple of weeks
00:57:11
earlier um sir Peter Beck who set
00:57:14
company called Rocket L and he's exactly
00:57:16
the same he's like Dom just call me Pete
00:57:17
call me Pete yet on the other hand
00:57:19
there's um yeah another Peter on the
00:57:22
podcast sir Peter leech oh yes um he he
00:57:24
insists that you call him sir Peter
00:57:27
oh he's a great mate of mine too yeah um
00:57:30
IO who who went to the ceremony your
00:57:32
wife yeah my wife um my my brothers um
00:57:36
one of my sons I think was still
00:57:38
overseas playing rugby in France and and
00:57:41
um um my sister uh yeah so CL close
00:57:46
family it's pretty cool oh it was it was
00:57:50
um yeah and and um Dan Dan paty uh was
00:57:55
the um person who who kned me so we
00:57:58
we've got a special sort of bond in in
00:58:01
that regard yeah oh yeah you're you're
00:58:03
in an out of government house all the
00:58:04
time yeah you and I were both um I think
00:58:06
this is where we first sort of um got to
00:58:08
know each other we were both um
00:58:09
ambassadors for the World Masters games
00:58:11
and they were in New Zealand yes so
00:58:13
that's the um the one and only function
00:58:15
I've been to government house for but
00:58:16
yeah you're a regular visitor there it's
00:58:18
like it's like your third home away from
00:58:20
home well I've I've been there once or
00:58:22
twice let's put it let's put it that way
00:58:24
um yeah 2018 you're big year for you so
00:58:26
you made us sir um you also get inducted
00:58:28
into the world rugby Hall of Fame yeah
00:58:32
that's cool well that was again you know
00:58:36
very nice occasion and um you invited to
00:58:38
go across to to England to to receive it
00:58:43
um John eels was the um chair of the
00:58:46
selection uh committee and um there I
00:58:49
said Anna Richards was on the selection
00:58:52
committee so every time I see Anna I I
00:58:56
give her a hug and and say thank you
00:59:00
dear but but yeah ni nice uh Accolade
00:59:05
nice tribute to to have um you know
00:59:08
after what such an enjoyable rugby
00:59:11
career yeah and March oh actually March
00:59:14
this year earlier this year inducted
00:59:15
into the Pacifica Hall of Fame yeah yeah
00:59:19
on once again um you
00:59:22
know just I I don't do
00:59:27
these things for for awards You Do It
00:59:30
For the Love of it and um but but always
00:59:33
nice to to be uh honored and and
00:59:36
recognized who else is in the Pacifica
00:59:39
rugby hall of fame um we had a couple of
00:59:42
um
00:59:44
um uh what do you call it um guys who
00:59:48
who've passed on Peter FATZ and and um
00:59:51
and Jonah Jonah lomu no need to say his
00:59:55
last name yeah we know George Smith the
00:59:58
Australian and and um uh F far
01:00:05
FAS um and
01:00:08
um one or two others yeah yeah I found
01:00:11
this great photo online you that's um
01:00:13
yeah you and the big man Jonah where
01:00:15
where where was that at um I couldn't
01:00:18
tell you precisely where but
01:00:21
uh
01:00:23
no no couldn't tell you um yeah did you
01:00:27
have much to do with Jonah yeah well I I
01:00:29
coasted them for a couple of years at
01:00:31
the Hurricanes I went down and Coast
01:00:33
with um R muray go gos as we know and um
01:00:37
so had a couple of years coaching um
01:00:41
Jonah we had a backline to die for um
01:00:44
Christian Cullen Jonah tner um some Al
01:00:50
arir um Jason o' helerin um yeah the the
01:00:56
names go on David hell David hallwell um
01:01:00
Jason spice um yeah so so but
01:01:05
uh it must have been my coaching that we
01:01:08
finished about eth or nth both both
01:01:10
years I was there so I I had to call it
01:01:14
to a Hal oh I don't think yeah I don't
01:01:16
know what it was I was um you so I'm
01:01:19
from um palis North so when Super Rugby
01:01:21
started um I was living in paly at the
01:01:23
time so I'm A hurricane's tragic from
01:01:25
way back and I don't know what it is
01:01:27
about them they always underperformed
01:01:29
day but they were always the most
01:01:30
exciting team yeah it's um I don't know
01:01:34
what it is either you know Wellington
01:01:36
for example
01:01:38
um they used to win the the MPC once
01:01:42
every I think they won it in 2000 they
01:01:46
might have won it in
01:01:48
1984 um every 15 or 16 years they seem
01:01:52
to Spring to life and win it again and
01:01:55
then
01:01:56
I don't know I I've I've always found uh
01:01:59
there I say it Wellington players um
01:02:02
enjoy the game and I I think they enjoy
01:02:06
uh the post game probably better than
01:02:08
than most as well if you know what I
01:02:10
mean I don't say it
01:02:12
lightly um and and I think It ultimately
01:02:16
cost them yeah um how do you see rugby
01:02:19
evolving in suar in the Pacific Islands
01:02:21
and what more can be done to support its
01:02:23
growth well
01:02:26
as you've seen in recent years we we've
01:02:28
set up Moana uh paf as as a rugby
01:02:33
franchise and Super Rugby and um that's
01:02:36
a sort of thing uh that was required
01:02:39
back in 1995 as far as I'm concern and
01:02:42
um you know I've I've been a a major
01:02:46
critic I suppose of world rugby from 95
01:02:50
when they left the whole of the Pacific
01:02:52
Islands out of out of Super Rugby and um
01:02:57
you know back in those days Fiji made
01:03:01
the quarterfinals of the World Cup in
01:03:02
1987 here in New Zealand and um our Manu
01:03:07
sore team I was part of the coaching uh
01:03:09
group we we made the quarterfinals in in
01:03:13
91 and 95 and almost made them again in
01:03:17
99 so so when um rugby went professional
01:03:22
in 1995 to be told that um you you you
01:03:25
ranked in the top seven or eight teams
01:03:27
in the world that you're not part of the
01:03:30
mainstream of of professional rugby was
01:03:32
absolutely ging and and upsetting and um
01:03:37
I I felt totally grieved and and so so
01:03:39
many others did so then took from 95 to
01:03:45
2022 uh before we we managed to get a
01:03:48
team into Super Rugby and that that team
01:03:52
obviously is um meant to feed uh
01:03:55
particularly the national teams of of
01:03:57
Tonga and sore and and obviously the
01:04:00
draw feed feed the Fijian national team
01:04:04
and and that ultimately uh will lead to
01:04:07
to uh better outcomes for for those
01:04:10
national teams yeah how did you feel
01:04:13
when you heard Ari savier was going to
01:04:15
Mona Pacifica well that that that was uh
01:04:19
great and great Testament to you know
01:04:22
Michael Jones so Michael and I and
01:04:25
others um we've had a great uh Team of
01:04:28
uh people working behind the scenes now
01:04:30
for a number of years uh to to get this
01:04:34
thing off the ground and we faced I dare
01:04:37
I say it we faced lots of obstacles from
01:04:39
um New Zealand Rugby and and some of the
01:04:42
franchises thinking that uh um you know
01:04:45
we were going to be an impediment uh to
01:04:48
to them um but fortunately uh We've now
01:04:52
Illustrated that that you know we can uh
01:04:55
stand on our own own feet and um with
01:04:58
with support from World rugby and and
01:05:01
with the government support and uh what
01:05:04
have you um you know we we're reasonably
01:05:06
financially stable now geez I like how
01:05:09
you um use your voice now um yeah like
01:05:13
the the shy 19yearold
01:05:15
guy this guy this guy here with the
01:05:18
thick black hair like what would what
01:05:20
would he make of the the old BL sitting
01:05:21
in front of me now geez he'd be proud
01:05:24
wouldn't he well
01:05:26
when I when I uh I I I give a speech I I
01:05:30
say um I've got two philosophies on on
01:05:33
public speaking um firstly uh one was uh
01:05:39
if if you're um uh talking while you uh
01:05:44
no what is it if
01:05:46
if my philosophy is uh if you're
01:05:51
eating uh and
01:05:54
drinking um
01:05:57
um you're talking too
01:06:01
much no I forgot I forgotten my
01:06:05
philosophy and and the other was uh be
01:06:09
sincere uh be brief be
01:06:13
seated I like that yeah that's a good
01:06:15
one um what about outside of rugby what
01:06:18
are your passions these
01:06:20
days you're still like um as as anyone
01:06:23
would gather from this chat that doesn't
01:06:24
know the um Subban story like um you
01:06:27
know you're deeply deeply deeply
01:06:29
entrenched in rugby um yeah what what
01:06:32
brings you to outside of that oh I've
01:06:34
I've always enjoyed golf over the years
01:06:37
um any good no no my my limbs uh my
01:06:41
limbs don't really allow me much uh
01:06:44
golfing time now but I I take part in
01:06:47
Social bowls uh we we have a a rugby
01:06:51
bows um Tournament down in Mount mongui
01:06:55
every February so um we're planning to
01:06:58
head down there again um or late late
01:07:01
January actually this year um to to play
01:07:04
that and um but La larly family things
01:07:07
um you know with 15 grandchildren we
01:07:10
we're busy and and constantly you know
01:07:14
following the the kids to see what
01:07:16
they're doing picking them up and uh
01:07:18
babysitting and and um really enjoying
01:07:22
all that and and um you know with the
01:07:25
barbarians uh Club um lots of uh
01:07:29
activities go on there and you know in
01:07:32
support of rugby um I ran a rugby
01:07:36
Academy at Mount Alber grar uh for for
01:07:38
many years so um mag mags are still
01:07:41
uppermost in in my thoughts we've just
01:07:44
had uh three of our grandchildren go
01:07:47
through Max um so that that's special um
01:07:52
but other than that I I just enjoy um C
01:07:55
ing up with all mates and and uh family
01:07:58
and yeah yeah brilliant um what are some
01:08:02
of the biggest changes um good and bad
01:08:04
that you've seen in New Zealand over
01:08:05
your
01:08:06
life
01:08:08
um like well well particularly I guess
01:08:12
as it relates to U Pacifica people um as
01:08:16
I mentioned used to be um totally
01:08:20
unfashionable to be an Islander in in
01:08:23
this country and Dawn raids and um you
01:08:26
know laborers and um uh the The View
01:08:31
that um you know troublemakers get drunk
01:08:34
and fight and all the rest of it what
01:08:37
what we're now seeing of course is in
01:08:39
every uh sphere of life um sporting um
01:08:44
uh the arts and culture um politics
01:08:48
local body uh politics uh rugby coaching
01:08:53
administration of rugby um pacif is
01:08:57
really well represented now in all those
01:09:00
areas so um that that gives me a great
01:09:03
great deal of pleasure really yeah yeah
01:09:07
we've come a long way yeah yeah um what
01:09:10
would you say the most important lessons
01:09:11
you've learned over your 74
01:09:13
years um oh the importance of
01:09:17
relationships I think building good
01:09:20
relationships uh with people and and and
01:09:23
um just treating people
01:09:25
how you would want to be treated
01:09:27
yourself and and being being respectful
01:09:32
um I I en enjoy um having fun uh I I
01:09:39
enjoy singing and and playing the guitar
01:09:42
and um all all those sorts of things I
01:09:46
love music U music music's been a huge
01:09:49
tonic uh there I said in in my life and
01:09:52
um whenever you're feeling a bit trouble
01:09:55
you know you just uh turn on the music
01:09:59
and it relaxes you and makes you feel
01:10:02
good yeah but but the relationships and
01:10:04
and you know I mentioned before my my
01:10:07
wife and family Paramount in that what's
01:10:11
what are you into Elvis Englebert yeah
01:10:14
well two of the absolute Legends and I
01:10:18
could pick it straight away Elvis and
01:10:21
Englebert well Elvis and Englebert and
01:10:23
Tom Jones and and the Beatles and and uh
01:10:26
I love The Beetles yeah Neil Diamond you
01:10:29
know all all that 60s and70s abber and
01:10:33
you name it but back in the day you know
01:10:35
talking about these we we would' start
01:10:39
uh uh with the alphabet
01:10:43
um yes what what song begins with an A
01:10:46
and then you play a song b and someone
01:10:49
would come up with a and we go right
01:10:51
through the alphabet and then you know
01:10:53
you might have started at 8 8:00 p.m.
01:10:55
and it's only 1 1:00 a.m. okay let's
01:10:58
start
01:10:59
again but did you did you ever admit to
01:11:02
Colin Ms that you were a fan of
01:11:05
ever oh he he probably heard
01:11:08
that I bet listened to it out on the
01:11:10
farm him and stand yeah probably
01:11:12
probably um if you could go back in time
01:11:14
and give advice to your younger self
01:11:15
what would it what would it be from the
01:11:17
perspective of a 74 year old man
01:11:21
um i' I'd largely do things pretty much
01:11:24
as as I've done them um it's going all
01:11:27
right yeah yeah I'm I'm um pretty pretty
01:11:31
proud about the way I've Liv my life
01:11:33
really and and at this stage of life you
01:11:37
you can well you you're forced to look
01:11:39
back because there's not too much to go
01:11:42
if if you know what I mean um in terms
01:11:44
of time do you think about that do you
01:11:46
oh well there I said this this week I've
01:11:49
lost two of two of my mates and um you
01:11:53
know and and when that happens it just
01:11:55
brings it so so close to home um yeah so
01:11:59
that's that that's always sad and um you
01:12:02
know looking back at some of the names
01:12:04
you mentioned and Andy Hayden great
01:12:06
great mate now departed and um well even
01:12:10
Jonah Sid gang Jonah um you you name it
01:12:15
um so many John mlin is is one of my old
01:12:19
black teammates just passed away the
01:12:21
other day and uh you know sincere
01:12:23
condolences to Linda and and the
01:12:27
family yeah sorry to hear that well geez
01:12:29
I'm 51 now and it's at the point where
01:12:31
I'm getting invited to more funerals
01:12:32
than like
01:12:33
21st yeah well it happens doesn't it
01:12:36
yeah it does happen yeah so yeah yeah
01:12:39
does does it just of crystallize just
01:12:40
how you know how limited time
01:12:43
is well time goes by so quick and and I
01:12:47
I guess if there is a a message uh to to
01:12:50
make the most of every day and and um I
01:12:53
I've always been a bit a goal Setter you
01:12:56
know try and set set goals even you know
01:12:59
many little goals like um uh cutting the
01:13:02
heads or or whatever at home and and
01:13:05
weeding that part of the Garden or
01:13:08
whatever just do it and and get it done
01:13:11
and then uh sit back and look at it and
01:13:15
enjoy you're always in the garden I
01:13:17
always see you out there well I love
01:13:19
getting out in the yard and just you
01:13:22
know fing away yeah what about um
01:13:25
biggest adversity uh or adversities
01:13:28
professional and personal that you've
01:13:30
gone through um well at that period when
01:13:32
we owned the motel was was pretty pretty
01:13:35
taxing but um no no just uh I've been
01:13:40
pretty fortunate really so far about
01:13:42
health issues I I did have a a health
01:13:45
issue you know about six months ago and
01:13:49
um and and perhaps a message to to men
01:13:52
related to my prostate and um and uh
01:13:57
just urging men to to go and get their
01:14:00
blood tests regularly and and check
01:14:03
their PSA levels because uh sometimes
01:14:06
they can get away on you yeah yes so you
01:14:10
mentioned this to me just before we came
01:14:11
into the room here so I don't know if
01:14:12
you want to elaborate on it or not but
01:14:14
yeah you had your prostate removed yeah
01:14:16
yeah I did are you good at getting like
01:14:17
regular health checks and updates I am
01:14:19
actually yeah I've I've um you know how
01:14:23
some men can be a bit sto about those
01:14:26
sort of your generation was the worst
01:14:28
yeah well I've I've never been like that
01:14:30
I've always and and to be fair I I um I
01:14:35
one of my doctors was was Dr Lloyd Drake
01:14:38
um dur during my playing career and um
01:14:42
you know he he was a great um supporter
01:14:45
of of mine and and made sure uh that
01:14:49
that um you know I was well well looked
01:14:51
after and all all those things were
01:14:54
checked
01:14:55
so you yeah so you caught it there was a
01:14:57
problem with the prostate but you caught
01:14:58
it early yeah yeah early detection is K
01:15:01
well early detection um it it had some
01:15:04
cancer in it and and dare I say it and
01:15:07
um um yeah the surgeon is is uh he's
01:15:12
he's confident that that um it's been
01:15:15
caught early enough but who knows I mean
01:15:19
Dom um it's it's a lottery uh really I I
01:15:24
think and and I was just talking um my
01:15:26
mate Brad Johnson um texted me just
01:15:30
yesterday about um John mclin's passing
01:15:35
um it's a lottery as I say to him might
01:15:39
if your numbers up your numbers up and
01:15:40
that that's essentially it um so you
01:15:44
have to be philosophical about it and I
01:15:45
am well I mean no one gets that alive do
01:15:48
they no one gets out of life no yeah oh
01:15:50
you mentioned um texting before yeah
01:15:52
you're very active on your phone like I
01:15:53
just I it this up through through text
01:15:57
how do you cope with technology and
01:15:58
everything have you found it hard to
01:15:59
keep up with everything or you do okay
01:16:01
or you rely on the grand kidss I I do
01:16:04
okay and and I I like to try things but
01:16:07
you have to rely on my my kids and my my
01:16:09
grandkids to some degree uh but but I
01:16:12
enjoy you know I'm I'm on Facebook uh
01:16:15
pretty regularly and and um Instagram
01:16:18
and um all all the other um apps that
01:16:22
that uh allow people to communicate okay
01:16:25
yeah but it must be so hard to keep up
01:16:26
though because it's just been so much so
01:16:28
much change that you've seen over your
01:16:30
lifetime especially I guess in the last
01:16:31
like 20 years or so yeah lot lot lots of
01:16:34
change and particularly in the
01:16:36
technological um space uh you know back
01:16:40
in the day um you know we used to get
01:16:42
our our um we we uh use a Dictaphone
01:16:48
machine and and um and then you you'd
01:16:50
give the tape uh to to your your
01:16:53
secretary and then she'd type it out and
01:16:55
if there was a mistake and and
01:16:57
particularly being in the law you know
01:16:59
if if you if you got a letter um the
01:17:02
process was you read it and and then um
01:17:07
uh dictate a a reply and then send it to
01:17:11
the secretary and and back it it come
01:17:13
and you'd have a look at it and if there
01:17:14
was a mistake you send it back and so so
01:17:17
the whole process of dealing with one
01:17:19
letter was about you know three days
01:17:21
then it had to go go through the the
01:17:23
mail
01:17:25
so back then you you had time to think
01:17:27
but nowadays everything is so
01:17:29
instantaneous uh that that you know life
01:17:34
is a thousand miles an hour yeah and
01:17:36
people expect to reply straight away
01:17:39
yeah they do they do yeah um what are
01:17:41
you most grateful for at this stage of
01:17:43
your life oh I I think I've made it
01:17:46
pretty clear that um very grateful for
01:17:48
for my wife for my family um and and and
01:17:53
for rugby I mean Rugby's given me so so
01:17:56
much um um all these wonderful
01:18:00
experiences great great friends and and
01:18:03
um uh places uh visited um experiences
01:18:08
that other people you know going going
01:18:10
to Buckingham Palace and um me meeting
01:18:13
the queen and and um you know uh open
01:18:17
heart surgery um in South Africa with um
01:18:21
Marius Barnard who was a brother of
01:18:23
Christian Barnard
01:18:25
um the the heart transplant um man and
01:18:30
um things like that you know sitting
01:18:33
sitting up on on the bench uh with a
01:18:36
judge in in a partite South Africa and
01:18:39
and uh you know here here's a guy with
01:18:42
with supposedly colored skin um sitting
01:18:46
on on the bench with the judge and and
01:18:49
the judge asking the council to address
01:18:52
the court pleas in in English so so Mr
01:18:55
Williams can
01:18:56
understand he was addressing the court
01:18:59
in in Africans so so that poor fellow I
01:19:02
don't
01:19:03
know whether he won his case or not yeah
01:19:06
well I yeah I forgot about the visit to
01:19:08
Buckingham Palace what was what was the
01:19:10
um what was your experience with the
01:19:11
queen oh just just very polite and and
01:19:15
Charming um just just to be able to meet
01:19:18
her and and Prince Phillip and uh
01:19:21
princess an and um yeah no very very
01:19:25
special and and humbling really you
01:19:28
realize that and and you know
01:19:32
particularly I think back to um going to
01:19:36
the movies on a Saturday afternoon when
01:19:38
I was you know between 5 and 10 years
01:19:41
old and and everyone back in those days
01:19:45
had to stand up for the playing of of
01:19:47
the national anthem which was God Save
01:19:49
Our Queen um that that's the way it was
01:19:52
in the movies and and and um so so you
01:19:57
know Queen Elizabeth II has been such a
01:20:00
huge uh part of my life and and just
01:20:03
absolutely uh adored um what what she
01:20:07
was able to achieve in in her uh long
01:20:09
long Reign yeah there's Traditions like
01:20:12
that that you you forget about I didn't
01:20:14
know about the standing up for the
01:20:15
national anthem at the movie theater but
01:20:16
I yeah I suppose also like travel to
01:20:19
these tours like did you have to dress
01:20:20
up in suits for the plane ride and
01:20:22
things um I remember an aviation where
01:20:25
people used to dress up and go on planes
01:20:27
yeah I I think we did to be honest no
01:20:29
t-shirts and jeans no but but um you
01:20:32
could get on on on the plane and and you
01:20:35
know change but then you had to hang
01:20:38
your hang your number ones up but you
01:20:40
had to have your number ones available
01:20:42
for when you arrived at the your
01:20:44
destination so um yeah all those uh th
01:20:49
those habits and functions us used to
01:20:52
take place if you could relive any one
01:20:55
day of your life over again what would
01:20:56
it
01:20:58
be um you got to say your wedding day
01:21:00
you're going to get in so much trouble
01:21:01
if you don't say your wedding day well I
01:21:04
I I loved my wedding day and and as I I
01:21:08
say I love my wife and and um we we
01:21:12
still get on great but
01:21:14
um if I could relive something
01:21:19
um there's not too many things really I
01:21:22
I I'm I'm pretty satisfied with um you
01:21:26
know how my life has gone so far and i'
01:21:29
I've said to my wife you know often that
01:21:32
if it ended
01:21:34
tomorrow it'll be great or not not not
01:21:39
no I don't want wish it to happen no I
01:21:41
don't want it to happen tomorrow but but
01:21:42
if it did then I'd settle for that yeah
01:21:46
yeah God it sad it has to end though at
01:21:48
some point yeah it is sad um but by the
01:21:52
same token um as you ate
01:21:55
uh you you do start to get tired and and
01:21:58
um you know I've got arthritis right
01:22:01
through my my body and um so every day
01:22:06
you you feel it and and so so there'll
01:22:09
come a point in time where I I can't um
01:22:12
get around and and
01:22:15
um so so you know as as uh we get older
01:22:21
we we hear about some of our our friends
01:22:23
and and uh colleagues who've been struck
01:22:26
down with things and and and their lives
01:22:30
have have just changed forever dementia
01:22:33
hits and um or or you know can't can't
01:22:37
move anymore can't can't drive anymore
01:22:41
and um you know people uh their whole
01:22:44
lives are just turned upside down so so
01:22:48
for the moment I I'm not in that
01:22:50
category so I'm I'm eternally grateful
01:22:52
for that oh you're you're in great nck
01:22:54
you drove drove in here today sharp as a
01:22:57
tech um your memor is great yeah well
01:23:01
well my my long-term memor is great I I
01:23:04
I've probably forgotten what I had for
01:23:05
lunch oh no no I haven't no remember
01:23:09
what I had for lunch I'm the same like
01:23:11
there's um yeah there's really important
01:23:13
things that I I forget day to day yet I
01:23:16
can remember the number I had like
01:23:17
growing up when I was a kid yeah yeah
01:23:19
it's crazy um how do you view your
01:23:22
legacy and um you know what do you
01:23:24
people will remember about you
01:23:27
um I think the thing uh that that I'd
01:23:31
like people to remember is loyalty um
01:23:34
loyalty um uh to to my uh wife and
01:23:38
family loyalty uh to my schools uh
01:23:41
loyalty obviously to my Rugby Club
01:23:44
ponsonby um loyalty to um um Oakland and
01:23:50
and or loyalty to Manu sore um
01:23:56
just someone uh who who people can count
01:23:59
on really that's what I'd like to be
01:24:01
remembered
01:24:02
for I don't think that's going to be an
01:24:05
issue um that that's the guy I know it's
01:24:07
quite funny so the you know the um that
01:24:09
eight years in the old blacks that sort
01:24:11
of like I suppose defined your life in a
01:24:12
way but then like I'm old as [ __ ] I'm 51
01:24:15
years old and I don't even remember you
01:24:17
as an all black but um I just yeah I
01:24:20
know you as this kind loyal man that's
01:24:22
um that's lived this life of service
01:24:25
well thanks for saying that um you
01:24:29
service I guess is a um a quality or or
01:24:33
trait of of pacif people um so so yeah I
01:24:40
I I've always uh felt the need to to you
01:24:45
know serve really serve the school serve
01:24:48
the family serve uh the club um yeah I
01:24:54
would think so much for coming on the
01:24:55
podcast
01:24:56
today yeah I really appreciate it no
01:24:58
it's it's been a pleasure and when when
01:25:01
I get the opportunity uh to to reminisce
01:25:04
and and reflect on on things I I always
01:25:08
uh I enjoy it and and you know you you
01:25:11
send sent me out of here with a big buzz
01:25:14
oh amazing oh likewise may I call you
01:25:16
sir Brian oh you can call me sir Brian
01:25:19
call me call me what you like do sir
01:25:22
Brian Williams BG
01:25:25
um thank you for being my mate and
01:25:26
thanks for coming on the podcast
01:25:28
actually um do you want to sing us out
01:25:30
on the podcast
01:25:32
oh what you love me tnder what do you
01:25:35
what do you got Please Release Me um
01:25:38
please release me let me go yeah I
01:25:40
should have got you to bring your guitar
01:25:42
yeah yeah uh or tin
01:25:46
guitars what you want what you want oh
01:25:49
he's doing requests Dancing Queen oh I
01:25:51
don't know that one
01:25:54
um something by the king maybe the king
01:25:59
oh us won't you let me be Ling teddy
01:26:04
bear put a chain around my neck lead me
01:26:08
anywhere or won't you let me be or won't
01:26:10
you let me be your teddy
01:26:14
bear well I don't want to be a tiger
01:26:18
tigers play too rough I don't want to be
01:26:21
a lion lions the kind you love
01:26:26
know won't you let me
01:26:29
be your teddy
01:26:33
bear put a chain around my neck and Lead
01:26:37
me anywhere oh let you be oh let him be
01:26:41
your teddy bear oh let him be your teddy
01:26:48
bear I want you to be my dirty
01:26:52
bear my God
01:26:55
I'm going to I'm going to remember this
01:26:56
moment forever that was awesome that's a
01:26:59
smooth voice oh well it's had lots of
01:27:02
practice let me tell you it's had lots
01:27:05
of practice oh that voice isn't going
01:27:07
anywhere you still got it thanks mate J
