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[Music]
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Anna Mo welcome to my podcast I love
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youve got not notes as well I've got so
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many notes okay sorry sorry sorry do you
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want to start again no that's are we
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good to go um you first of all um I I've
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done so much research about you and
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anticipation of you thanks for coming on
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you are so welcome thanks for having me
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well you you your team reached out to me
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and said would you want to enter on and
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I'm like are you are you kidding
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me I'd love to so no I won't hold it
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against them actually but from what I
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can GA this is your first ever non-
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business podcast yeah it is it is you're
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the lucky man man well I appreciate that
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so yeah so I had to sit through a whole
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lot of podcasts that you've been on
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about business deals in China and stuff
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that's way way above my pay grade oh
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well hopefully there was some little
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nugget in there that you enjoyed so why
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why why now why would you want to do
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like a an like a more a personality
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based podcast look I just think that
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your podcast is great for us D you're
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good value good fun and I think you
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bring out the best in people so why not
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well I appreciate that that that is my
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goal um I have like two main goals one
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of them is to make sure all the guests
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have a really good experience um but
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also it's got to be a good listening
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experience as well cuz otherwise yeah um
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you're in trouble aren't you you go the
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follower numbers so you still you still
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have Kanye though he'd be supporting you
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he's he is the best I'm I'm obsessed
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with him um first of all couple of uh
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couple of random ones what's your
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favorite Taylor Swift song Oh I I'm not
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much of a muso I did go to Taylor Swift
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but I'm not actually that much of a
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Museo I went there because I think it
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made my children realize and appreciate
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that they have to work hard to get to
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things like Taylor Swift so they were
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incredibly jealous that I got to go but
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that's all about setting up aspirations
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for them that was I know I know it's
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kind of mean but at the same time you've
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got to build desire in your children
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right so that they actually sit back and
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say I've got to work hard to achieve
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these things so you had um V VIP tickets
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what what does that mean where are you I
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don't even know actually I went with I
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went with my girlfriend live who is
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absolutely obsessed with Taylor um and I
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think it was it was a couple of months
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out and she was like I'd just love to go
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to Taylor swi will you come with me I
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was like Absolutely I'll be there I'll
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be there with you no problem at all and
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then she spent the next couple of weeks
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trying to get tickets couldn't get
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tickets and I was in the office one day
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and uh and I turned around to ell go oh
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I've got a couple of weekends away
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blocked out of my calendar to go over to
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O to go listen to um Taylor but
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unfortunately I don't have tickets and
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he's like oh what you want tickets and I
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was like yeah well that'd be great I
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mean live would be over the moon we got
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tickets and so he picks up the phone
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calls a bu and gets me tickets and next
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thing you know I'm on the phone to live
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and I'm like hey babe we're off we're
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going we're going to Sydney um and so so
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we went watch it was it was it was
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fantastic I mean she is an incredible
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performer um you know she's definitely
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quite productionizing her approach to
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things but that's what makes her great
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and she knows how to connect with her
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community in a way that I've never
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experienced before oh she's like a a one
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person mega church yeah it's crazy see
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you're not even a fan you did it to
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spite your kids fory no I didn't really
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but it was that was the you know the
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side message and learning off the back
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of it right is and it's it's 100% right
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I've got our eldest son is absolutely
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obsessed with football but is he just
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going to be able to get a trip to you
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know the UK to go watch Premier League
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game no he needs to work for that you've
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got to have things that you want in life
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right and if you if you don't have that
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road map of knowing they're achievable
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and attainable then it's really hard to
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know where you can get to them in future
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well by buying a team Oakland FC what
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lesson is that teaching him uh well the
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lesson there the lesson there is that
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there's opportunity in places that you
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don't necessarily see it right so that
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that for us was about figuring out how
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you can give the player Pathways that
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there aren't currently in New Zealand
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because to get out of New Zealand and be
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more Global so my my you know one of my
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big things in life is actually um
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unlocking unlocking capabilities and
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empowering people to realize that
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there's so much more than what you've
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got got within the closed Borders or
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Windows of s New Zealand um and I think
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you know we we learned that with zuru
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the sense that you can be a massive
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Global organization coming from being
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little humble kiwi kids but there's so
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many more ways that that can be adopted
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in places and and areas of your life
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that that can be adopted over and in
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sport outside of rugby um and obviously
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a few Olympic sports where we definitely
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punch above our Weighton there hasn't
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been that opportunity in basketball or
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football so it was about saying how do
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we help to unlock that potential and
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he's sit with pson already you know he's
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just been signed up by Bournemouth um
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coming straight out of Phoenix that's
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exciting those are the journeys that we
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want to we want to enable and kiwi kids
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and give them the passion right life
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should be all about following your
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passion and figuring out how we can be
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empowers of that is what ockland FC is
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about I mean it's massive Gap right I
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mean the fact that we didn't have a team
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here and we didn't have that competition
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in New Zealand you know across a and z
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there's I think it's 2.2 million
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football players across Australia and
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New Zealand um and and we've just never
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had those Pathways opened up before um
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and there was no you know apart from
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Phoenix and New Zealand there was no
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other team here how do we build a
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competition in New Zeal when we don't
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have a derby and is it just a from from
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a personal perspective is it just a fun
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thing to fun thing to have and to do um
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I don't I mean let's wait and say we've
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got team we've got a team being pulled
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together I think it's I think it's going
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to be an absolute roller coaster um
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yeah you don't necessarily buy a sports
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team to make money you've got to have
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you've got to have a bigger purpose
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behind it yeah uh so for us it's
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definitely about unlocking that I mean
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it's it's the biggest sport in the globe
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um you look at the NLS for example and
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and and uh the US and the pathway that
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they've got on and growth and potential
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and there's no reason we can't replicate
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down with the APL absolutely oh and
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another thing I saw on your Instagram
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you recently went to um I'm a big fan of
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this guy as well Steven Bartlett Diary
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of a CEO love him you you went to his
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live show you you got the photo
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afterwards what did he learn from
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you like I saw the photo I thought this
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is really odd like does does he first of
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all does he know who you are and what
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you've done like it's crazy I feel like
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that was just part of the journey but it
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was actually really he's a really lovely
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guy and he seems like a very deep and
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genuine guy um but he gave us you know 2
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hours of his time to a group of people
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that enthralled and deeply engaged and
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he's a very engaging individual and he's
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got a lot of incredible life lessons
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he's um a thorough and considered
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listener uh and he really is very deeply
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respectful of those people that come on
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to his show and I think he gets the best
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out of them as well and there's a lot to
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Aspire to and learn from him and how he
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portrays and projects and and just goes
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about his life um so we were very lucky
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to be in that audience to be able to get
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that sort of that um
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accumulated view of knowledge and
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information that he's garnered off of so
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many incredible guests that he's on had
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on his podcast so it's a great it's a
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great it's a great great podcast he it's
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fantas a great podcast it's one of my
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fav and he he um you know how he does
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like Instagram tiles with quotes on from
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time to time he had one up today uh
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success is stumbling from failure to
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failure with no loss of enthusiasm would
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you would you agree with that yes I
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would absolutely agree with that um yeah
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success is a series of just very small
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achievements um and along the along that
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Journey you are failing and rebuilding
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just constantly over and over again so
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yeah I would wholeheartedly agree with
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that yeah
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definitely yeah and and that's the
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interesting thing I suppose this is what
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everyone would want to know why would
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you go from zuro to to zil why wouldn't
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you just kick back for a bit you know um
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get on a couple of like shitty boards or
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something and you know just spend more
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time with your you know deep your deeper
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time with your kids or something why do
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something
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else I I wanted to make an impact and I
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don't think you know I don't think being
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on a board you get to truly make a
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tangible difference you know for me I
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love being in the thick of it I love
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being in the Nitty Gritty of things I
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love learning um I I and I I really
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enjoy Building Product that's what gets
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me excited that's what really gets me up
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and out of bed every day I want to be
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making something that's useful right and
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and for me
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with something like Zeal you know the
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power of five right they say if you
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impact one person that can influence
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five and that's where you get momentum
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stay to build and that's where you can
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change society and that's where you can
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change Norms um so for me it was really
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important to think about what we could
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do
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to unlock potential in others and I
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think that's really important from a New
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Zealand perspective right is is what are
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we doing to help encouraging our youth
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to contribute to do more to get head and
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to feel confident in what they're
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actually moving towards so for me Zeal
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was really about initially looking at
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how we could democratize that path to
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employment um so it started off really
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looking at what were some of those
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barriers to employability um where were
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where were individuals struggling to get
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themselves work ready and how can we
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break down some of those those barriers
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right and and when we started
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researching into that space you know
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you've got um you've got people
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struggling to get into work because they
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don't have a driver's license for
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example they don't potentially have the
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skills that they believe are necessary
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for a role one of the biggest barriers
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to becoming employable was actually
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having a CV so the first thing we
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started with in that Journey was a CV
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Builder a free CV Builder so you didn't
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have to go pay 50 bucks at a website to
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get a subpath CV um and and and building
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that and enabling people to be able to
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get career ready was really important to
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me um but then off the back of that it
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was how do we allow indiv indviduals to
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succeed and businesses to thrive and
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what is the platform that can enable
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that so that's where that's where Zeal
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kind of came from and again like I say
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it's all about for me it was about being
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able to give back so it was really
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important in my journey of zeal to be
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doing something in New Zealand with New
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Zealand talent and building something
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that had a global applicability because
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again I care deeply about uring whatever
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we do here um that we're learning how to
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how to build something for a global
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stage and have you got massive
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aspirations for it uh yes absolutely
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yeah
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absolutely see you're um you're in a
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blended uh family and we'll get into
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your relationship later if you want but
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there's five kids that you've got and my
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sister lives in point sh she says she
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sees you doing the school drop off you
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every other morning um yeah aren't like
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aren't you busy enough like aren you
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know aren't you tired why don't you just
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have a break I think it's fantastic that
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your children see hard work right I
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don't think that I don't think a working
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family is a detriment to the children at
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all in fact quite the opposite right our
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youngest is now seven so I mean we start
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the day at you know quarter past 6 by
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7:00 all kids are out the door we're hi
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Piper Family Ally myself five children
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walking our way up to the coffee shop
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for for drop off um and you know they're
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on the school bus by 20 7 um and so
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you've got the rest of the day to
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yourself like why wouldn't you get up
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and get cracking into something at that
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point in time and figure out what you
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can do that that nurtures you and it's
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that's what it comes down to right is
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life is all about finding your passion
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following your passion figuring out how
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you can give back to others and what
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you're contributing to society and then
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just getting stuck into that and moving
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towards those goals and a really
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productive fashion and for me um raising
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children is very symbotic to raising and
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starting a business you know the two
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things can go hand in hand um dealing
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with dealing with dealing with people
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managing and and you talk about it being
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a series of failures right like every
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single day you learn you fail with your
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children and you figure out how to get
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back up cuz that not going away you've
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got to find Solutions and that's the
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same thing as as running a business and
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starting up in a business and um you
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know being a mom is is is hard work it's
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stressful it never stops it's never
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ending starting a business is hard work
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hard hard work stressful never stops
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never ending and so there's a lot of
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parallels between the two but ultimately
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I think they can work really well hand
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in hand um I'm I'm a very uh active
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relaxer uh I'm not good at sitting still
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and sitting on my hands um I like to be
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I like to be contributing somehow in
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some we we've only been going for 13
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minutes I get that impression about you
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like you are have have you do you have
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ADHD or anything or have you been I
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don't think so I'm definitely not
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diagnosed it's it's controlled if I
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do yeah how old are you what's ADHD is a
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super power though I I love ADHD I think
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if you can if you can take that harness
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it and learn how to direct it in the in
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the right way it's like it's it's
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absolutely a super power cuz I I Reon I
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re I've got to undiagnosed because I'm
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just at that age where it was never
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diagnosed but it's like I'm quite happy
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being an active relaxer I feel like I
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get a lot more done not as much as you
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though how far did you run this morning
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just um 10K this morning just to clear
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my head listen to the final business
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podcast that you've been on that I quite
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10K yeah ran past um ran past your your
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your building site I could see that in
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the distance oh there you go there you
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go it's nearly a completed building site
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which is always good um do you have um
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xshot bullets all through your house oh
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yeah oh yeah oh my gosh and I this I
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hate it I mean I walked into down the
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corridor yesterday and my little
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seven-year-old pulls out a blaster and
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starts firing at me and I instantly my
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whole body just went rigid and I was
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like do not do that to me like there's
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nothing worse than seeing those things
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come flying at your head so I'm slowly
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confiscating them from the home that
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doesn't mean when other people's
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children turn up I don't deliver them
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one on a platter but it's uh yeah we
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have a lot of bullets around the house
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yeah I can imagine I can imagine I've
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I've got a photo I want to show you um
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oh no here we go no no no no I just want
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to know um yeah what comes to my mind
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when you see this this is from um your
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early years is this tooa or Cambridge oh
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I love that that's in tooa yeah so how
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old are you
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then how old do I look two yeah a couple
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of years old and you you're wearing a
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dress up from what I can GA later on you
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became like a bit of a tomboy oh I'm
00:15:01
surprised I'm wearing a dress M must
00:15:03
have this is definitely family photo
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opportunity time you know sitting on the
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trampoline in the middle of the backyard
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trying to get us four children to sit
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still was hard enough you let alone get
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me into a dress but it's it's a great
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photo though isn't it it just looks very
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very kiwi
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1980s um you're very just incredibly
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normal was that what your upbringing was
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like we were your appearance wealthy at
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all or no just hard sort of hard working
00:15:29
hard very hard um Dad was an engineer uh
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so he he was at um kley Pulp and Paper
00:15:37
Mill so that's the reason we were in uh
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TOA so you could literally see the mill
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from this backyard um but he was
00:15:44
incredibly hardworking and to give you
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an idea of that you know the very first
00:15:48
house they ever owned you know Dad
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literally built it himself by hand he
00:15:53
was the electrician he was the plumber
00:15:55
he was the builder he was everything and
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he was doing that at the same time as
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working
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probably a 50h hour week at at the paper
00:16:01
mill and Mom meanwhile was trying to
00:16:03
raise young children inside this home
00:16:05
that Dad was constructing himself um
00:16:10
everything he wanted to achieve in life
00:16:13
he was willing to learn about to deeply
00:16:16
understand and then to partake in either
00:16:18
building it himself or finding the best
00:16:20
people to do so um so he never shied
00:16:22
away from hard work he never shied away
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from learning and curiosity and growth
00:16:26
and so they were incredibly Foundation
00:16:29
elements to how we are now as as
00:16:31
individuals as well but I mean our
00:16:33
upbringing was I love this photo because
00:16:35
if I think about our upbring beer feet
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like I just you know I just remember
00:16:38
beer feet a lot of egim Mite sandwiches
00:16:41
um and Mom always gave us brown bread
00:16:43
because she thought that was going to be
00:16:44
better for us since I was the only C up
00:16:46
SC with brown bread veggie Mite
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sandwiches every day the same lunch um
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yeah just uh you know in this this
00:16:53
trampoline I learned to back flip and
00:16:55
forward flip and I mean we we had a lot
00:16:57
of fun in this backyard cops and robbers
00:17:00
um but ultimately at the end of the day
00:17:02
there was this uh allowance for
00:17:05
Independence and freedom which I think
00:17:08
was such a testament of how Mom and Dad
00:17:10
raised us they gave us enough R to hang
00:17:12
ourselves and to learn from our mistakes
00:17:14
but they also set very high standards
00:17:16
around how we behaved and how we
00:17:17
performed as people you know they deeply
00:17:19
appreciated kindness but also having
00:17:23
um very very uh strong manners and uh a
00:17:28
respect for your elders and the people
00:17:30
around you um and an acknowledgement of
00:17:32
what others were doing to help you get
00:17:34
ahead so we had yeah we had a really
00:17:37
strong set of standards in the family
00:17:39
and I think that was so so important but
00:17:41
at the same time we were we were wild
00:17:42
kids we uh we definitely scared off a
00:17:45
babysitter or t i don't just say that
00:17:48
like we were the family that you did not
00:17:50
want to babysit really like in what way
00:17:52
were you just naughty you are we just we
00:17:55
just we love to we love to challenge
00:17:57
right everything's aom competition and
00:17:59
and our family as children even to this
00:18:02
day with our children right everything's
00:18:03
a competition so I mean we used to do
00:18:05
things like you know and just such
00:18:08
childish things but the babysitter would
00:18:09
come over and would literally put like a
00:18:11
bucket of water on the top of the toilet
00:18:14
door so when the baby said open the
00:18:15
toilet door the bucket of water would
00:18:16
fall on them or we used to have
00:18:18
competions that's what we used to do
00:18:19
before we had a bunch of balloons yeah
00:18:21
exactly exactly that's where it all came
00:18:22
from um or I mean we used to have
00:18:25
competitions to see who could W the
00:18:28
babysitter was watching TV sneak down
00:18:30
into the kitchen um get a frying pan and
00:18:32
make a batch of pancakes without getting
00:18:35
busted you know so we'd literally do
00:18:37
things like that we would sneak in and
00:18:39
we get the flour the eggs the milk we'd
00:18:41
make pancakes and then we'd take them
00:18:42
out to the babysitter sh they were
00:18:43
sitting at at a watching TV you can just
00:18:46
imagine how mortified you as a
00:18:47
babysitter find out that we had an
00:18:48
electric pan in the bedroom down down
00:18:50
the corner and they hadn't been you know
00:18:51
necessarily looking after us but we were
00:18:54
well known for our Antics and it was all
00:18:56
in good spirits but we were definitely
00:18:59
spirited so you always sort of had
00:19:02
um yeah maybe I'm just drawing too much
00:19:04
of a connection here but that sort of
00:19:05
disrupt
00:19:07
attitude yeah I think again it came down
00:19:10
to the the we were allowed to be
00:19:12
creative and independent and kind of
00:19:15
pave our own path and yes there's
00:19:17
definitely parallels to that around
00:19:19
being disruptive um so so so you leave
00:19:22
school um you go to university because
00:19:25
you want to be the the only Mo to get a
00:19:27
degree yeah well interesting
00:19:29
interestingly enough I always as a child
00:19:32
wanted to be a vet and so I uh was going
00:19:35
to go to university uh to be a vet I
00:19:37
later learned that University is more
00:19:38
about having fun than it is about
00:19:39
learning but um you know that's okay
00:19:42
decided I wanted to to become a vet so
00:19:44
went down to mass University I got down
00:19:46
to Massie and in the the first term sort
00:19:49
of holidays I was working with one of
00:19:51
the local vets um and so I just sort of
00:19:53
run up the vet clinic and said hey can I
00:19:55
come and Shadow one of the vets for the
00:19:57
next couple of weeks and I shadowed uh
00:19:58
him for a couple of weeks and I remember
00:20:00
at the end of that time he turned around
00:20:02
to me he said Anna I'm not going to let
00:20:04
you become a I was like what do you mean
00:20:06
why can't I become a V and he's like I'm
00:20:08
not going to let you the person you are
00:20:11
spend the rest of your life shoving your
00:20:13
hands up
00:20:15
cows
00:20:17
beehinds because it just doesn't make
00:20:19
sense please do not why Why didn't it
00:20:22
make sense well look I just think
00:20:24
thought he prob I wasn't probably going
00:20:25
to be very good at doing that obviously
00:20:27
um he didn't quite that as my career
00:20:29
path which was actually the best advice
00:20:31
I could have possibly been given at that
00:20:32
point in time so I very quickly de
00:20:35
enrolled myself from uh from vet and
00:20:40
moved across into what seemed to be a
00:20:43
good parallel uh degree down at Massi
00:20:45
University because I was you know well
00:20:46
set up down there um and again I wanted
00:20:49
to be the only mob to actually finish
00:20:51
and get a degree uh and food Tech was a
00:20:54
really interesting degree four-year
00:20:56
degree uh really focused around sort of
00:20:58
um Supply Chain management optimization
00:21:01
as well as engineering Machinery setup
00:21:04
um um manufacturing facilities within
00:21:06
the the food and beverage space and
00:21:08
nutrition so a really interesting degree
00:21:10
uh that I actually quite enjoyed um and
00:21:13
then yes went on to to frore and oh
00:21:18
where did you live in py what area were
00:21:19
you in I was right in the thick of it
00:21:21
right in the thick of it and and you
00:21:24
know a dingy student fled I think there
00:21:26
were eight of us in there it was nice it
00:21:28
was it was it was good what the what was
00:21:30
what was the bar or bars then were you
00:21:32
were you a bar yeah I was I was I would
00:21:35
Brewers Apprentice no what was um I
00:21:37
worked at the fits oh the fits oh the
00:21:39
fits were still you there that's a
00:21:40
terrible place oh it was yeah terribly
00:21:43
good in the sense that it kept me away
00:21:45
from drinking behind the bar feeding
00:21:47
everyone else lining my pocket with a
00:21:49
bit of cash so I didn't have to get out
00:21:51
of there with a student loan um for me
00:21:53
it was always really important that I
00:21:55
didn't have to be tied from a financial
00:21:57
perspective to
00:21:59
um alone or or some sort of um external
00:22:02
Factor so you must have you must have
00:22:04
seen some things there I went there once
00:22:05
with a couple of mates who played rugby
00:22:06
for Kar and they did a thing called a
00:22:08
pelican where one of them put fingers in
00:22:10
his own throat and vanted into his
00:22:11
mate's
00:22:12
mouth and he didn't get kicked out you
00:22:15
didn't get kicked out of the probably
00:22:17
would have been celebrated okay so so
00:22:19
you work at fror and then um your your
00:22:21
two brothers uh Matt and Nick um Matt so
00:22:25
uh so I went on to so Frugal was an
00:22:27
interesting one actually they came to
00:22:28
down to University and uh down to Messi
00:22:32
and they were looking for uh interns to
00:22:35
to come into frore and into their own
00:22:37
research and development team and um
00:22:40
they put up posters around the campus
00:22:43
for a fourth year student to to come and
00:22:44
do their their internship with them I
00:22:46
was only my third year at that point in
00:22:48
time or or just partially through my
00:22:49
third year I thought this is perfect
00:22:51
I'll go and apply for this job anyway um
00:22:53
even though I was in a fourth year winon
00:22:55
Headed off with the R&D manager that
00:22:58
point in time and uh she turned around
00:23:01
and employed me um for this graduate
00:23:03
program uh and so I went I went down to
00:23:07
fror and started working there over
00:23:09
throughout the term holiday and as I
00:23:11
came close to the end of my time there
00:23:12
she handed me a full-time contract and
00:23:14
said oh we want Tolo You full time once
00:23:16
you've finished your your fourth year
00:23:18
and I turned around to her and I sort of
00:23:19
said oh I'm actually only my third year
00:23:22
and she was like excuse me that was not
00:23:25
what this was all about you're supposed
00:23:26
to be in your in your final year so we
00:23:28
could bring you on board into a graduate
00:23:31
program and um they actually ended up
00:23:33
helping sponsor my last year of my
00:23:35
degree so that I would actually lock in
00:23:37
and come back and work for them fulltime
00:23:38
once they finished so finished up uh at
00:23:41
University and at this point like Matt
00:23:44
was my old brother Matt who actually uh
00:23:46
founded zuru so he was um he's an
00:23:49
incredible engineer incredible product
00:23:51
guy um just really brilliant around the
00:23:54
the the future um and future proofing
00:23:57
your business and and building product
00:23:59
into into that space um but he he had
00:24:02
been sort of peppering me and hounding
00:24:04
me a bit earlier before I'd actually
00:24:06
finished and graduated University to
00:24:07
come over and start withou and I sort of
00:24:09
said to him oh look I've got to go to
00:24:10
frore I've got this scholarship that
00:24:13
they've given me to go on to Frugal so I
00:24:15
went there for a couple of weeks and
00:24:17
he's like come on Anna get over here you
00:24:18
got to come you got to come and join us
00:24:19
over here it's like the time is now we
00:24:21
need you we're desperate for you just
00:24:23
get on a plane to China and I turned
00:24:25
around to my boyfriend at the time and I
00:24:27
was like should we go to China he's like
00:24:29
yeah go to China sounds like a plan um
00:24:31
and so it you know I'd gone into I'd
00:24:33
gone into fral which is an incredible
00:24:35
company great business had amazing
00:24:38
mentors around me but I was probably a
00:24:40
bit of a pest right I just I would just
00:24:43
you know wander around peer over
00:24:44
everyone's shoulders get involved in
00:24:46
whatever project was going on I probably
00:24:48
wasn't adding a huge amount of value and
00:24:49
I look back on and reflect back in it
00:24:51
and I just I just probably needed a bit
00:24:53
more um and so as soon as I realized
00:24:55
that was what the corporate world looked
00:24:57
like for me I I uh literally said to
00:24:59
Matt the next time he called okay get me
00:25:01
a ticket um and so I was on a plane
00:25:04
probably 5 days later so with fre mad at
00:25:06
you so they they sponsor you last year I
00:25:09
I had such a great relationship with the
00:25:11
with the team in there I actually
00:25:12
remember sitting down in in Sandra's
00:25:14
office at that time and telling her and
00:25:16
she just looked at me and she goes you
00:25:18
would yeah you would and then just sort
00:25:21
of smiled and I was like I'm so sorry
00:25:23
and then and then the worst part as well
00:25:27
is that at that point in time
00:25:29
I was playing football and we had a we
00:25:30
had a a work football team and we were
00:25:32
supposed to be going over to um Brazil I
00:25:35
think it was to play in a tournament
00:25:37
over there with our work team and so
00:25:40
Sandra's boss Jackie who I I still now
00:25:43
work with um and and keep in touch with
00:25:46
um turned around with me she's like you
00:25:47
can't leave before the football
00:25:49
tournament you've got to come to at
00:25:50
least that I was like I think I'm just
00:25:52
going to if I do that I'm really getting
00:25:54
myself into a deep P so we're just going
00:25:56
to uh Segway at this point in time yeah
00:25:58
I jumped on plane headed over to China
00:26:01
um into into one of the most extreme
00:26:04
situations probably in my life yeah yeah
00:26:07
so so the The Story Goes that the three
00:26:10
of you Matt Nick and yourself you you
00:26:12
each had like um an inheritance of
00:26:13
10,000 bucks each from somewhere from
00:26:16
our grandma so that was from my
00:26:18
grandmother passed away so that actually
00:26:20
happened probably a couple of months
00:26:22
after I had moved over there um that she
00:26:25
passed away so when you moved so you
00:26:27
move over to China at the age of oh was
00:26:29
I 21 21 so so what what is what is zero
00:26:33
at that point oh um yeah just a very
00:26:37
small um rundown
00:26:41
manufacturing square with a a few
00:26:44
workers in it starting of you know a bit
00:26:46
of an R&D tool shop few production lines
00:26:49
um manufacturing at that point in time
00:26:52
the hot air balloon and starting to
00:26:54
starting to um a fora into what was our
00:26:58
first product that probably gave us a
00:27:00
bit of um Global reach which was a
00:27:02
product line called night Sports and
00:27:04
that was a range of light up soccer ball
00:27:06
football basketball um and fr was that
00:27:10
these no yes yeah that's them yeah so
00:27:13
how how he them oh 21 I'd say yeah JZ
00:27:16
you look so you all look so young eh no
00:27:19
this was our next Factory so I must be I
00:27:20
must be 23 or that's way way down the
00:27:22
track yes yes paint a picture of those
00:27:25
those um those it sounds pretty bleak
00:27:27
but it yeah how did it compare to we had
00:27:30
a sound lak but it was incredible
00:27:33
right I mean when I look back on what we
00:27:36
you know the environment was that we
00:27:38
lived in you wouldn't necessarily wish
00:27:41
it upon your children but at the time it
00:27:43
was exciting right like we were just
00:27:45
these young kiwi kids with big goals big
00:27:47
Ambitions big big desires um we hadn't
00:27:50
growing up in you know in a world where
00:27:54
we were entitled or we thought we
00:27:56
deserved a certain um level or quality
00:27:58
of life um and we were we were very open
00:28:02
and receptive of anyone and all you know
00:28:06
I had grown up an environment where Mom
00:28:08
and Dad had taught us to be I think just
00:28:11
good citizens and good people um so
00:28:13
moving over to China it was I mean we
00:28:16
were living in some pretty rough
00:28:19
circumstances no doubt about it yeah
00:28:21
paint a picture so you were living in an
00:28:22
office and there was like a a shower
00:28:25
above the toilet or something no oh it
00:28:27
was yeah we we're so man and I lived up
00:28:30
in China so I was in China for 16 years
00:28:33
living in China fulltime um and by that
00:28:36
I mean you know in the later years I'd
00:28:37
come home once a year for maybe a 10day
00:28:39
holiday but in those early years I
00:28:41
wouldn't have come home probably for the
00:28:42
first three years of going over there um
00:28:45
and we're living in um an an environment
00:28:49
that is um it's an hour and a half
00:28:52
outside of guano the biggest you know
00:28:54
the the biggest city next to near us was
00:28:57
was guano we were living in a small
00:28:58
place called W which had about a million
00:29:01
people by population and I can safely
00:29:05
say I would have been one of the only
00:29:06
female white faces in in huadu um so we
00:29:09
didn't have friends we did not have
00:29:11
people that you could anchor into or
00:29:13
call or use as a mentorship it was
00:29:15
literally Matt and myself my our cousin
00:29:17
Simon was over there as well um uh and
00:29:21
then just an incredible crew of and and
00:29:25
team of um Chinese and employees over
00:29:28
there who who were honestly phenomenal
00:29:30
some of our team over there are still
00:29:32
you know with suru today and running the
00:29:34
business at very high levels and Senior
00:29:37
positions in the organization but I mean
00:29:40
it's hot it's sticky it's dirty it is um
00:29:44
it is fastpaced there's language
00:29:47
barriers there's cultural nuances that
00:29:49
you can't even start to understand and
00:29:51
comprehend um there are you know there's
00:29:53
no Road Rules there's you know there's a
00:29:56
society there's a society that you just
00:29:59
um you you learn to appreciate so deeply
00:30:02
because it's it's grounded in this
00:30:05
resourcefulness and this desire to get
00:30:07
ahead that you can't even appreciate or
00:30:10
articulate unless you've lived in it and
00:30:11
been part of it um and the pace of
00:30:13
innovation and change and and speed of
00:30:16
Discovery is something that's
00:30:18
unparalleled so I mean I would say we
00:30:20
learned business the Chinese way and
00:30:21
that was the greatest asset we could
00:30:23
have ever received um so yeah I mean I
00:30:26
remember that first day uh driving from
00:30:29
the airport um to the factory where
00:30:33
where Matt at that point in time was was
00:30:34
living and Nick was living there a
00:30:36
little bit as well at that point in time
00:30:37
um but he was stting to commun a lot
00:30:39
more down to Hong Kong um Hong Kong
00:30:41
being sort of the melding pot of the toy
00:30:43
industry from a buying perspective and a
00:30:45
sales side of thing so he was really
00:30:47
anchoring that front end of the business
00:30:49
down in Hong Kong um and I remember
00:30:50
arriving at the factory and just first
00:30:54
off being an a at the at at the sort of
00:30:57
the product AC ity the get up and go the
00:30:59
buzz the the the sort of the drive of of
00:31:02
everyone there um but you know man and I
00:31:05
have bedrooms that are off the side of
00:31:08
our Center office um where we've got you
00:31:11
know 10 desks in there um our showers
00:31:14
are at one end of that um there's a
00:31:16
toilet um down the bottom of the
00:31:18
staircase which is utilized by all the
00:31:20
factory team and at the start we didn't
00:31:23
have a working shower block up near our
00:31:24
bedroom so we literally had a shower
00:31:27
over top of the toilet for the factory
00:31:29
floor and when I say I couldn't stand up
00:31:31
in this I could not stand up in it it
00:31:33
was full of mosquitoes so your shower
00:31:36
was literally 30 seconds and it's it's
00:31:38
all a gas heating system which is
00:31:40
triggering on and off you never know if
00:31:41
it's going to work um but it was
00:31:43
literally 30 second shower in and out
00:31:46
get up there you know pad up to our room
00:31:49
in a towel get changed in the bedroom
00:31:51
walk straight out into the factory floor
00:31:52
like it was it was definitely an
00:31:54
interesting an interesting time and we
00:31:56
had um a Chef there that was cooking cuz
00:31:59
she generally to cook for all of your
00:32:01
your your factory team so she was
00:32:03
cooking for all the factory team and
00:32:05
ourselves um but we had a budget of
00:32:07
about 2.5 R&B per meal so's that that
00:32:12
would be like literally 40 cents oh my
00:32:15
God it's like you're in prison
00:32:17
yeah well and so I just I just have
00:32:21
these memories of and and we always
00:32:24
laugh about it m night of of the chef
00:32:26
and she'd yell out
00:32:28
which me it was lunchtime and MMA used
00:32:31
to just hear that and be like oh gosh
00:32:33
back into the and there was this one
00:32:35
dish that was because I was always very
00:32:37
jous about any of the meat I was like
00:32:38
you're not buying meat for that price
00:32:39
like what is this mystery meat I'll just
00:32:42
stay clear of of the meat but there was
00:32:44
a dish that I felt was really safe and
00:32:47
it was pumpkin cooked in oil until it
00:32:50
was literally mush with salted peanuts
00:32:53
drawn over the top so it was like oily
00:32:55
pumpkiny peanuty mesh and I that was the
00:32:58
one dish that I considered and deemed
00:33:00
very safe so I would eat that most days
00:33:02
of the week and then we would um would
00:33:05
supplement that with McDonald's um and
00:33:08
McDonald's at that time was very
00:33:09
Progressive because McDonald's did
00:33:10
delivery this was far before Uber Uber
00:33:13
Eats so um yeah M and I would treat
00:33:15
ourselves with with McDonald's as well
00:33:17
where we're living there so it was
00:33:18
interesting we didn't have we didn't
00:33:19
have transportation we didn't have a car
00:33:21
at that point time we were taking you
00:33:23
know public buses where you're standing
00:33:24
up in a public bus and you you'd commute
00:33:27
with that and into town and no ability
00:33:29
to really communicate well um and then
00:33:32
you've also got to remember that you
00:33:34
know someone like myself walking down
00:33:36
the streets stand out you stand out and
00:33:38
so everyone's touching you and feeling
00:33:40
you and stroking your hair and wanting
00:33:43
to talk to you and it's it was a really
00:33:45
different environment but it was it was
00:33:46
incredibly humbling and it was
00:33:48
incredibly defining of the people that
00:33:50
we were then and that were become now so
00:33:53
I mean I love China I love it I love the
00:33:56
people of China I love the loyalty I
00:33:58
love the hustle I love the grind I love
00:33:59
the dedication the hard work and
00:34:01
everything it gave to us was so powerful
00:34:05
yeah cuz the like the Ana that's sitting
00:34:06
in front of me today it seems very very
00:34:08
Posh it's hard to imagine you're living
00:34:10
on um your pumpkin I'm fing Posh don't
00:34:13
you worry no no no um but yeah I suppose
00:34:17
like from where you are now you can look
00:34:19
back fondly on that but at the time
00:34:21
there must been that days where you
00:34:22
thought what the are we doing do do
00:34:24
you know what though I don't think there
00:34:25
were I don't remember that I don't ever
00:34:28
remember second guessing it I don't ever
00:34:31
remember um remember thinking why on
00:34:33
Earth am I in China and why am I here
00:34:35
and I think that's a really important
00:34:37
Nuance of surviving difficult sit
00:34:40
situations or times or moments right you
00:34:42
have to look at the positive in it if
00:34:44
you don't you will not survive it and I
00:34:47
think it's really similar to to business
00:34:48
as well if you're in a tough or a
00:34:50
stressful moment within your business or
00:34:53
or life and you get too deeply
00:34:56
reminiscent about that go too deeply
00:34:58
down the the the the rabbit hole of that
00:35:02
moment then it's really hard to keep on
00:35:04
powering through and pushing through and
00:35:05
getting out of that scenario um so for
00:35:08
me living in China was just always
00:35:11
exciting and exhilarating and new and
00:35:14
and and um there was always something to
00:35:17
learn and there was someone to grow from
00:35:20
and to be and a life that you could
00:35:22
change so I mean there was some there
00:35:24
was some beautiful nuances to it right
00:35:26
like the the of Chinese weddings we got
00:35:28
to experience or or babies that were
00:35:31
born into the family like families and
00:35:33
relationships we got to understand
00:35:34
Chinese holidays we got to celebrate
00:35:36
like all of those cultural elements were
00:35:39
really really incredible and we got to
00:35:41
learn and see all of that firsthand as
00:35:44
as because we were so deeply and
00:35:47
intricately linked into the country and
00:35:49
tied to the country and I think you know
00:35:51
we went we went into that move to China
00:35:54
with an open mindset and um and return
00:35:58
for that and and a deep respect for
00:35:59
people and in return for that we got to
00:36:01
work with some of the best and the
00:36:03
brightest and the greatest people within
00:36:05
China and and we're able to develop a
00:36:07
business that is truly phenomenal and
00:36:09
quite unparalleled in its industry and
00:36:11
on a global scale it is it's incredible
00:36:14
and it's it's not a not an industry that
00:36:15
you'd ever think there's a gap in the
00:36:17
market I mean you think of I don't know
00:36:18
Mattel or Hasbro or I don't know who
00:36:20
your competitors are and it's like there
00:36:23
was no sort of obvious Gap there and
00:36:25
these three siblings from New Zealand
00:36:26
somehow did it it's just remarkable what
00:36:30
what was yeah what was your goal in the
00:36:31
early days like was it to be one of the
00:36:33
world's biggest toy makers look I think
00:36:36
your goals don't start that big right
00:36:38
and I think too hard yeah the the goal
00:36:40
out of the gate was how do we make money
00:36:42
how do we become profitable how do we
00:36:44
eat something other than how do how do
00:36:45
we actually sell these toys and make
00:36:47
sure that they get sold off the shelf
00:36:49
right like so the first goals initially
00:36:51
are so much smaller um and then you get
00:36:54
to the point where you're like hey we've
00:36:55
actually got something that works here
00:36:57
wow we got into these accounts in this
00:36:59
country what's the next country that
00:37:00
we're going to open up and so it's all
00:37:02
about those that staged approach right
00:37:05
um yes you've got this bigger long-term
00:37:06
goal of being wildly successful in the
00:37:09
industry that you're going into but it
00:37:10
has to start smaller um and and I said
00:37:13
it the start right it's all about those
00:37:15
in in like those consistent movements
00:37:17
all in in that streamlined and common
00:37:20
direction that that leads to success and
00:37:22
and I always say it's about commitment
00:37:24
and consistency you know without
00:37:26
commitment you don't start without
00:37:27
consistency you don't conquer so how do
00:37:29
you show up every single day with that
00:37:31
consistent approach to achieving for a
00:37:33
bigger goal so yeah we got to the point
00:37:35
where it was like phenomenal how do we
00:37:37
now you know we've done this this
00:37:39
exceptional job in international how do
00:37:40
we now win in the US so once we've won
00:37:42
the US great how do we now become one of
00:37:45
the 50 biggest toy companies in the 10th
00:37:46
and then in the top five and so it just
00:37:49
it constantly evolves and then the goal
00:37:51
post just keep on sort of changing they
00:37:52
keep on changing and and I think that's
00:37:54
really important because you've got to
00:37:55
be able to you've got to be able to
00:37:57
celebrate those Milestones when you get
00:37:59
to them as well um and so if you're
00:38:01
always just reaching for that huge
00:38:03
audacious audacious one you don't really
00:38:06
have anything to celebrate along the way
00:38:07
and it's not that look I'm not a big
00:38:09
believer um in in necessarily
00:38:12
celebrating your wins to the N degree um
00:38:15
I think that you should um talk about
00:38:17
good news once enjoy it move on um but
00:38:21
when things are going bad or poorly you
00:38:23
should talk about it all the time and
00:38:24
figure out how you're going to change it
00:38:26
um so yeah it's it's look business is
00:38:29
interesting right because you ultimately
00:38:32
have to be spending your time in the
00:38:33
places you you least want to a lot in in
00:38:36
a lot of cases because that's where the
00:38:37
hard work needs to be done and that's
00:38:39
where you've got to make change happen
00:38:40
so um when you're a founder or a
00:38:42
business owner you've got to be
00:38:44
constantly evolving and figuring out
00:38:46
what where you add support and where you
00:38:48
help and where you uh accelerate to
00:38:50
enable you to keep on growing and keep
00:38:52
moving forward but yeah it's all about
00:38:54
momentum and once you get it you've just
00:38:55
got to maintain it hold on to it and
00:38:57
keep trying to supercharge it absolutely
00:38:59
there's so many good takeaways in
00:39:00
this I've got another photo for you is
00:39:02
this was this another photo was this the
00:39:04
game was was this the Tipping Point for
00:39:08
Z ah that was one Tipping Point I think
00:39:10
there's lots of tipping points um Robo
00:39:14
Fish your is that my job think they
00:39:17
still sell them never like 12 bucks at
00:39:19
farmers and oh yeah wet cools and like
00:39:21
how many of them would you would you
00:39:22
guys have sold and now and when we first
00:39:24
launched this we sold 30 million in the
00:39:26
first I think it was 18 months 30
00:39:28
million this was a great story actually
00:39:31
um Chinese inventor sha
00:39:33
pinglu um and he worked for a competitor
00:39:37
company called IFI um and at IFI he had
00:39:41
actually taken them the concept of this
00:39:43
Robo Fish um and presented it to them as
00:39:46
something he thought should be added to
00:39:47
to the range and the owner at that point
00:39:49
in time of IFI said no wasn't something
00:39:52
he wanted wasn't going to go down that
00:39:54
path um and we happened to be privy um
00:39:58
to seeing it in action and it's a
00:40:00
phenomenal bit of engineering right
00:40:02
you've got this tiny little fish that's
00:40:04
you know 4 cm long it's got full
00:40:08
Electronics inside of it so that it
00:40:10
moves and it swims like a real fish it's
00:40:11
weighted so that it can dive and doesn't
00:40:14
get stuck at the surface of the water it
00:40:15
has to dive down 5 meters across every
00:40:18
three Dives and it's it's very highly
00:40:19
intricate um and how it works it's got
00:40:21
carbon activated sensors so there as
00:40:23
soon as it touches water it bursts into
00:40:25
life um it's a phenomenal Masterpiece of
00:40:28
engineering you seem so proud like so
00:40:30
you're talking about one of your kids
00:40:32
yeah pH are good it just you know it
00:40:35
helps me visualize um you know just it
00:40:38
it really was a phenomenal piece of
00:40:40
engineering and and likewise the
00:40:42
manufacturing of it that came thereafter
00:40:45
which um was equally is is phenomenal um
00:40:48
but
00:40:48
shaing he yeah he took the he took the
00:40:51
idea to his current his current boss who
00:40:53
said that he didn't he didn't want to uh
00:40:55
go ahead with it so sheling had him
00:40:56
signed off on a bit of a document that
00:40:58
said that he had the rights to be able
00:41:00
to go and license it elsewhere he came
00:41:03
to us we picked up the license we took
00:41:05
it to Market and then IFI sued us for
00:41:07
stealing their IP um we ended up at that
00:41:10
point in time we were quite young and
00:41:11
naive and to be honest a little bit
00:41:13
scared um we sort of had this big player
00:41:15
in the industry that was coming at us
00:41:17
for um stealing intellectual property
00:41:19
from his organization we were 100% in
00:41:22
the right shaing had left the
00:41:24
organization he' got a signed documents
00:41:26
saying that he had the ability to take
00:41:28
the product elsewhere he had IP um he
00:41:31
was in a really good head space and in a
00:41:34
good position on it but we were quite
00:41:35
nervous so we ended up settling with IFI
00:41:38
in that situation um if I had my time
00:41:41
again I would not have settled with them
00:41:42
I would have absolutely taken it the
00:41:44
whole way like for how much I can't even
00:41:46
remember how much we settled for to tell
00:41:48
tell you the honest truth we like
00:41:49
millions or something oh no no no no not
00:41:51
at all no no like literally not a lot at
00:41:53
all um but what we did do is we shared
00:41:56
the distribution of the of the IP um so
00:42:00
uh yeah this was a phenomenal product um
00:42:02
we launched it it was a massive Tipping
00:42:04
Point for us as an organization we yeah
00:42:07
like I said we sold about 30 million of
00:42:08
them in the first 18 months um it took
00:42:11
us Global it really built credibility um
00:42:14
it taught us how to scale um it
00:42:16
definitely helped open doors from a
00:42:18
distribution perspective not only with
00:42:20
retailers but also um with countries as
00:42:23
well so it was it was a f it was a
00:42:26
phenomenal product
00:42:27
yeah yeah you seem so proud when you you
00:42:30
talk about it so passionately it's nice
00:42:31
to remin isn't it you know you kind of
00:42:34
you show me a photo and it takes me back
00:42:36
yeah because I get the feeling you're um
00:42:38
such a Forward Thinking person you don't
00:42:39
spend a lot of time stearing in the the
00:42:41
rear view I don't at all so all of these
00:42:42
photos I've really enjoyed this journey
00:42:44
you taken me on because I never I never
00:42:46
reminisce and then um it's a bunch of
00:42:48
balloons came after that um yeah I mean
00:42:51
there's some this I just you made me
00:42:53
think as well about this when we had the
00:42:54
factory went bankrupt on us with this
00:42:56
product as well right when we had
00:42:59
hundreds of thousands of pieces to ship
00:43:01
to Walmart and Target and we had this
00:43:04
was a factory was a French Run facility
00:43:07
and it went bankrupt um and we had to
00:43:11
literally reset up a new facility in the
00:43:14
course of a couple of weeks turn around
00:43:16
all of our production get the the entire
00:43:19
um manufacturing lines set up all the
00:43:22
quality testing all of the Machinery um
00:43:25
and have our product shipped out to to
00:43:27
to Walmart and Target in a very very um
00:43:30
small amount of time and and to your
00:43:31
point around it being a Tipping Point at
00:43:33
that point we had to succeed you know
00:43:36
our credibility was on the line because
00:43:38
this was our big break into some of the
00:43:39
biggest retailers globally so um that
00:43:42
was that was definitely a stressful time
00:43:44
uh but off the back of that we learned a
00:43:46
lot around the capabilities and the
00:43:49
adaptability that that there was in
00:43:52
China to be able to make change happen
00:43:53
fast and and for us to be able to drive
00:43:55
it as well I mean this is where us being
00:43:59
in China having our teams located there
00:44:01
and being so close to the manufacturing
00:44:04
and the supply chain was absolutely um a
00:44:07
huge asset to to zeru and our ongoing
00:44:10
success so sorry then you were talking
00:44:12
about bunch of a bunch of balloons yeah
00:44:13
so so something which didn't even occur
00:44:15
to me um so that was invented by some
00:44:18
some guy called Josh Malone an american
00:44:20
guy and then um so is this how it works
00:44:23
someone has an idea they pitch it to you
00:44:25
and then you either buy the idea or you
00:44:27
you don't buy the ideas yeah a lot of
00:44:28
the time it just it depends really on on
00:44:30
the product so um Rober fish was an
00:44:33
inventor item a bunch of balloons was
00:44:35
something like an OT no no inventor was
00:44:38
involved in that that was us in or
00:44:40
something like a rainbow corns again
00:44:41
that was one that we've developed in end
00:44:43
as well or a mini brand so it really
00:44:45
just depends on on the product but
00:44:47
absolutely when you see something great
00:44:50
um and you know that you can add value
00:44:52
for the inventor it's a very symbolic
00:44:55
relationship so so this guy Malone what
00:44:58
would he make out of that oh I don't
00:45:00
even know the numbers off the top of my
00:45:02
head but very wealthy man um I mean he
00:45:04
does he does well out of it and so he
00:45:06
should and he's been an incredible
00:45:07
partner in that Journey um I mean we
00:45:09
went through a lot with bunch of
00:45:11
balloons uh that was that was one of
00:45:14
these products where you know as soon as
00:45:16
we licensed it we knew that there was
00:45:19
going to be a flurry of activity around
00:45:21
figuring out how to knock that off and
00:45:24
how to take it to Market faster and or
00:45:26
cheaper than what we were able like
00:45:28
copycats yeah absolutely so many so many
00:45:30
copycats so for us it was really about
00:45:33
figuring out how we could beat the
00:45:34
copycats um at their own game and again
00:45:36
being in China enabled that in us but
00:45:38
also um I talked to Matt earlier on this
00:45:40
engineering capabilities for him he
00:45:43
assembled a team to really automate and
00:45:45
set up a fully automated facility there
00:45:47
for us to be able to manufacture a bunch
00:45:49
of balloons at scale um and that ability
00:45:51
to do it for the cheapest price possible
00:45:54
out of China enabled us to be able to
00:45:56
protect the IP behind that brand but we
00:45:58
went on to win you know a $45 million
00:46:00
lawsuit um with that product and that
00:46:03
was four years four years that I spent
00:46:06
defending um the IP behind a bunch of
00:46:08
balloons with Josh Malone he was
00:46:09
incredible in that Journey as well um
00:46:11
but again if he'd been taking that
00:46:13
product to Market himself he would have
00:46:15
never been able to defend the IP um the
00:46:17
company that he' just be steamrolled
00:46:19
right he'd be absolutely steamrolled and
00:46:21
and the company that uh ultimately were
00:46:23
the the biggest culprits and in knocking
00:46:26
off a bunch of owns a company called T
00:46:27
Brands they actually started as SE on TV
00:46:30
so as SE on
00:46:32
TV the the late night ads are they have
00:46:35
an whole aisle in Target and Walmart
00:46:37
they owned those aisles so what they
00:46:40
have that others don't is an instant
00:46:43
distribution point and multiple points
00:46:45
at retail and some of the biggest
00:46:46
footprint retailers in the globe um so
00:46:49
what teley brands is able to do is
00:46:50
they're able to take great ideas they
00:46:53
quickly turn them around in China
00:46:55
without really a care on the quality
00:46:57
side of things because they're all about
00:46:59
getting volume um and then they place
00:47:01
them on the shelves at a Walmart on
00:47:02
Target and then they slowly
00:47:04
incrementally if a product sales well
00:47:06
work on the quality work on the price
00:47:07
point so they came at Bunch balloons in
00:47:10
exactly that same manner um they didn't
00:47:12
care about quality control or ensuring
00:47:14
that the product was of good value they
00:47:16
threw up you know hundreds of thousands
00:47:18
of units into Target and Walmart stores
00:47:21
and then they tried to steamroll us with
00:47:23
the fact that they had the the retail
00:47:25
placement who knew the twig was so so
00:47:27
dirty in that the toy game is Dirt like
00:47:30
it's very very dirty but then is that
00:47:31
kind of what you guys is X shot kind of
00:47:34
like that to Nerf uh it is and it isn't
00:47:37
because there's no IP there's no inven
00:47:39
features about that right kids have been
00:47:40
picking up sticks as if they are
00:47:41
blasters since you know hundreds of
00:47:44
years ago so it's very different in the
00:47:46
sense that there's no intellectual
00:47:47
property so that's the diff that's the
00:47:49
delineator something like Bunch balloon
00:47:51
is wholly inventive and you know the IP
00:47:53
has stood up um that that like I alluded
00:47:56
to before that that went through three
00:47:58
separate litigations where T Brands
00:47:59
slightly incrementally changed the
00:48:01
product to try and get around IP we were
00:48:04
able to have our IP stand up in three
00:48:06
different litigations three courtrooms
00:48:09
over an extended period of time because
00:48:11
we have an inventive feature so that's
00:48:13
what's critical um it was it was wholly
00:48:16
distinctive wholly unique wholly
00:48:18
inventive um and we had the
00:48:19
documentation to be able to prove that
00:48:21
so that's where it's that's where it's a
00:48:22
very different scenario so T Brands the
00:48:25
number of companies have steamrolled um
00:48:27
they have had hundreds of litigations
00:48:29
and I'm talking hundreds and hundreds of
00:48:31
litigations the owner of telebrands had
00:48:34
never turned up in a courtroom and be
00:48:36
taken all the way through trial we were
00:48:38
the first people to ever take him all
00:48:40
the way through trial and I remember so
00:48:42
clearly when he came to our Hong Kong
00:48:44
office to to try and settle with me and
00:48:46
get the rights to a bunch of balloons
00:48:48
and I sat at the table and I told him
00:48:50
I'm no one certain terms were we going
00:48:51
to be licensing the product to him that
00:48:53
he was scum um and that we would not be
00:48:56
backing down and he turned around to me
00:48:58
and he said little girl this is the
00:49:00
stupidest decision you'll ever make and
00:49:02
I just looked at him and I was like
00:49:04
we'll see we'll see just put the fire in
00:49:07
my belly how old how old were you at the
00:49:09
time little girl I would have been uh 27
00:49:12
i' say something around there maybe a
00:49:16
little bit older maybe a little bit
00:49:17
older um but yeah he and and like I said
00:49:20
it was the first time i' ever been in a
00:49:22
courtroom um and I've never seen anyone
00:49:24
look more uncomfortable um and you know
00:49:28
we won we won the trial um I spent so
00:49:31
much time on that uh we won the trial we
00:49:34
he wasn't able to appeal it we run three
00:49:36
times in a row he went through every
00:49:37
means possible to try and turn over our
00:49:39
patents and IP um and then he got to the
00:49:42
point where he said to us that he wasn't
00:49:45
going to be paying the final sum um and
00:49:48
so I remember calling him up one day and
00:49:50
I said I know your wife I know your
00:49:53
children I know you I've had a private
00:49:55
investigator following you I know your
00:49:56
cash is I know where your money's
00:49:58
sitting I know where your reserves are I
00:50:00
suggest you pay us otherwise we'll be
00:50:02
opening up the can of worms and just
00:50:04
hung up the phone on him and we got paid
00:50:06
two days
00:50:07
later God it was really interesting
00:50:10
working in that sort of environment but
00:50:13
yeah he was I mean he's got a whole book
00:50:15
written about him knockoff king um
00:50:17
because that was his business model and
00:50:19
he just he just crushed and suppressed
00:50:22
and steamrolled inventors on a constant
00:50:24
incremental basis because IP is so hard
00:50:27
to to hold up that that phone call that
00:50:29
you made sounds really mean but I
00:50:31
suppose the only way to fight a bully is
00:50:33
to you have to you have to front up to
00:50:35
them don't you you have to you have to
00:50:37
and you've also got to be bold about
00:50:38
what you do and that's I mean that's a
00:50:41
big part of life right life is a series
00:50:43
of decisions you got to make the right
00:50:44
decisions at the right time and be bold
00:50:45
about what you stand for and what you're
00:50:46
trying to achieve yeah so was it around
00:50:49
around this time that you you um metet
00:50:51
your partner Blake and you had you had
00:50:53
three children oh gosh um y three
00:50:55
children with BL from Hawaiian Hawaiian
00:50:58
yeah so that's thus the reason they all
00:51:00
have Hawaiian names yeah oh do they what
00:51:03
are their names uh Kanani Miley and
00:51:07
Koo Miley Miley Hannah Montana energy oh
00:51:12
not not it's m a i l e spelling so so
00:51:16
you you you were um you were preg you
00:51:18
worked sort of all the way through right
00:51:20
oh yeah yeah absolutely I mean that was
00:51:22
that was the beauty of being able to be
00:51:25
um you know a founder of a business in
00:51:27
Your Own Boss uh and being able to have
00:51:30
children so yeah I worked all the way
00:51:32
through I think I went down to Hong Kong
00:51:35
um the day before my due date uh and you
00:51:38
know you you're not supposed to be
00:51:40
Crossing Borders until your last two
00:51:42
weeks so I had the doctor up in China
00:51:44
sign a letter that said my due date was
00:51:46
one date and the doctor down in Hong
00:51:48
Kong had a date that was wholly
00:51:49
different um so I turned up there uh a
00:51:54
day before the Hong Kong doctor's due
00:51:55
date and two days two weeks before the
00:51:57
Chinese doctors due date um to cross the
00:51:59
border at the right point in time and uh
00:52:02
I uh went down and shared an apartment
00:52:04
with Nick down there while we waited for
00:52:06
my eldest to come um but I mean I was
00:52:09
yeah like I said I was so lucky I mean I
00:52:11
had him and two days later I was back on
00:52:13
conference calls and as soon as he got
00:52:15
his passport I think it took me around
00:52:16
10 days as soon as he got his passport
00:52:17
we're back up across the border and into
00:52:19
the office so um yeah it was oh my God
00:52:22
that's amazing yeah but I just you know
00:52:25
there was nothing there was nothing that
00:52:26
was life right life was you know
00:52:29
building zuru and building it to be the
00:52:31
best it could possibly be and children
00:52:34
got to come into that environment and
00:52:36
just slot right in and fit in and and
00:52:38
become part of it so I mean Kanani
00:52:42
literally I had my desk in the open plan
00:52:45
office and at one end of it I had a
00:52:48
changing mat and next to the changing
00:52:50
mat was a crib and he came with me each
00:52:53
day and I'd had him on and and an
00:52:56
incredible routine right everything was
00:52:58
very structured a because you know
00:53:00
you've got to get sleep at night time
00:53:02
and B because I had to work during the
00:53:04
day so he was on a really structured set
00:53:06
of timing I had um an amazing Filipino
00:53:09
nanny who would come in she met me at
00:53:10
the office in the morning and she'd
00:53:12
helped you know work through the day's
00:53:13
routine um but for me it was really
00:53:16
important that he was there with me so I
00:53:17
wanted him right beside me at the desk
00:53:18
you know it was first time mom you just
00:53:20
want your baby there with you and I was
00:53:22
very privileged that I got to have that
00:53:24
right and I mean I've got photos of him
00:53:26
learning to crawl in this dirty dirty
00:53:29
Factory floor you know and that was that
00:53:32
was how his life started he literally
00:53:34
learned to crawl in the middle of a
00:53:36
factory in the middle of nowhere China
00:53:38
and then so what made you decide to tap
00:53:40
out of tap out of out of zuru oh you're
00:53:43
jumping around oh japers kid
00:53:46
z we'll get back to the kids and family
00:53:49
stuff but I feel like this will sort of
00:53:50
finish off the um the the zuro the zuro
00:53:52
story um look I one thing about my life
00:53:56
is that I I I always want to be doing
00:53:59
more and learning more and achieving
00:54:01
more and that's really important for me
00:54:03
is is that there's a lot of personal
00:54:04
growth um and so to build something like
00:54:08
we did together at zeru is is quite
00:54:10
incredible right working with your
00:54:12
brothers and and in an environment um
00:54:15
that we did and to build something so
00:54:17
phenomenal is is rare and exceptional
00:54:20
and exciting and exhilarating um but one
00:54:24
thing for me was that I also wanted to
00:54:26
do something more for myself um and so I
00:54:29
set a goal for myself when I was 35 that
00:54:31
said don't let be the greatest Mountain
00:54:33
you ever climb do something else before
00:54:34
your 40 yeah I've heard I've heard that
00:54:36
so so Zur are you having zuru is your K2
00:54:40
and zil is your
00:54:41
Everest well would there be another
00:54:44
Mountain this more Mountains you even
00:54:46
know how many mountains there's going to
00:54:47
be right like let's not cap this didn't
00:54:49
we talk about goals ever changing yeah
00:54:51
yeah yeah look it's just about it's just
00:54:53
about enjoying what you're doing in that
00:54:55
moment and getting solely fulfilled
00:54:58
through it you know and and what we've
00:55:01
done with zuru is incredible and that's
00:55:03
part of the journey that will never be
00:55:04
replaced never be replicated never be
00:55:07
seen probably for a very long time um
00:55:10
for three siblings to come out of New
00:55:11
Zealand and do something like that it's
00:55:13
unheard of it's so incredible right the
00:55:15
success is unparalleled yeah and so now
00:55:17
I get to use that as a foundation to
00:55:19
keep going and so I'm very privileged so
00:55:23
is it is it a big call to leave or the
00:55:26
your brother is okay with it like how
00:55:27
how oh we're good we're I mean how does
00:55:30
that conversation start they they fully
00:55:32
understand and accept your decision and
00:55:34
yeah they they're supportive I mean it's
00:55:36
never easy those conversations like
00:55:38
they're tough and we went through so
00:55:39
much together and we lived in the
00:55:40
trenches together but
00:55:43
ultimately those blood relationships are
00:55:45
always going to be there and we are so
00:55:47
close you know you've got to remember
00:55:49
how long we lived and spent and breathed
00:55:52
and and and and worked together you know
00:55:54
like Matt and I were so closely entwined
00:55:58
in everything that we did on a daily
00:55:59
basis for 15 years in the middle of
00:56:01
China right like you form a bond that is
00:56:03
you can't even imagine it right because
00:56:05
all we had really was each other um and
00:56:08
so there's there's a deep level of
00:56:09
respect and Trust there and we
00:56:11
wholeheartedly support each other in
00:56:13
everything that we're doing which is
00:56:14
which is really nice so I mean Nick and
00:56:17
Jamie were just over on the weekend Matt
00:56:19
I I was just talking to him and CT
00:56:20
yesterday like we're still you're always
00:56:23
going to have that really close
00:56:24
relationship and I think that's the
00:56:25
special thing about family yeah and when
00:56:27
when they talk to you now about stuff
00:56:28
that's going on at zuru like is there
00:56:31
any sort of fomo or is it just like
00:56:33
thank God I love it I just want to see
00:56:35
that business keep going from strength
00:56:36
to strength it's my baby still right and
00:56:38
you never you never have to walk away
00:56:40
from that and that's the beautiful thing
00:56:42
right like celebrate the success in
00:56:44
others celebrate the success in in
00:56:46
anything that you've been able to
00:56:47
contribute to because that's the beauty
00:56:49
in life like I just want to see that
00:56:51
business continue to grow continue to
00:56:53
prosper and and yeah and will that's the
00:56:57
great thing is because it's been built
00:56:58
on such an incredible Foundation yeah so
00:57:00
so they so they buy you out or pay you
00:57:03
out however you want to phrase that and
00:57:04
do this was a personal podcast wasn't it
00:57:06
not about business yeah oh yeah is this
00:57:08
business oh no no but I feel like this
00:57:10
is important because I I wonder how you
00:57:12
feel about um I mean there that's my
00:57:14
personal there's so much written about
00:57:16
about that I wonder if it makes you feel
00:57:17
uncomfortable or oh I just don't need to
00:57:19
discuss it yeah yeah yeah but are you
00:57:22
New Zealand's richest woman don't know I
00:57:24
don't care about that sort of stuff yeah
00:57:26
I don't like that sort of thing but what
00:57:27
what about when um when you read uh like
00:57:29
in the paper about your house and yeah
00:57:32
like helicopter pads and and things like
00:57:33
that like is is that does does that feel
00:57:35
invasive or or personal or you don't
00:57:38
mind you don't care all of that's very
00:57:39
invasive I just think that New Zealand
00:57:42
media has got a long way to go to be
00:57:45
more constructive right and I think
00:57:47
there's so much we can celebrate why not
00:57:50
enable more Empower more celebrate more
00:57:54
and engage in ways that are truly
00:57:56
pushing Society forward and I think
00:57:58
that's the great thing about um about
00:58:01
podcasts about micr credentials about
00:58:04
the the Freedom of Information that we
00:58:06
have now there's so many ways that you
00:58:08
can learn and you can be empowered um
00:58:11
sensationalization and clicks are always
00:58:14
going to be there they're always going
00:58:16
to be part of what a lot of media
00:58:18
Outlets believe is the right approach um
00:58:21
but ultimately for me I want to I would
00:58:24
love to see a world an media Outlet or
00:58:28
uh an option where we truly help the
00:58:32
nation get ahead and the only way we
00:58:35
really all get ahead in a in a in a sort
00:58:38
of in a comprehensive in a in a
00:58:40
community based Fashion Is by learning
00:58:43
to celebrate one another learning to
00:58:45
celebrate successes and starting to
00:58:48
actually think a bit more deeply around
00:58:49
how we educate how we Empower how we
00:58:52
upskill one another so that as a as a
00:58:55
nation we can keep moving ahead and you
00:58:57
know our our metrics in the oecd are
00:58:59
abysmal at the moment and there's a
00:59:00
reason for that and and if we don't all
00:59:02
come together as a nation to figure out
00:59:04
what we're doing to get ahead we're
00:59:06
going to continue to keep going
00:59:07
backwards so do I think that any of you
00:59:11
know that media side of things add value
00:59:13
adds value no do you think is an
00:59:16
opportunity to add value yes yeah do you
00:59:17
think part of it is stemmed in like tall
00:59:19
popping just there does seem to be like
00:59:21
a negativity in this country a towards
00:59:23
people that have done well for
00:59:24
themselves yeah I
00:59:26
look at the end of the day the only way
00:59:29
to change that is to change the tone of
00:59:30
voice and there's so much we have to be
00:59:33
grateful for there's so much we have
00:59:36
that can be celebrated there's so many
00:59:38
great people doing amazing things
00:59:40
entrepreneurialism will continue to
00:59:42
power up our country and move us forward
00:59:44
in education right um because that's
00:59:46
where the jobs are made um that's where
00:59:49
intellect is created that's where um
00:59:53
we're bringing uh new IP that adds value
00:59:56
from a GDP perspective like that's where
00:59:58
we continue to build an incredible
01:00:00
society and that's how we continue to
01:00:02
get ahead as a nation um that and then
01:00:05
obviously um as well making sure that
01:00:07
we're actually empowering people to come
01:00:08
through and want to take those paths is
01:00:10
really really important um and so how do
01:00:12
we change that narrative that's not my
01:00:14
job that's someone else's um do you want
01:00:16
to get into politics at some point that
01:00:18
can be something you can pick up
01:00:19
absolutely not really that's not going
01:00:21
to be one of your mountains could you
01:00:23
imagine AR you get too frustrated
01:00:26
I did yeah you'd get too frustrated at
01:00:28
the lack of I just I don't think yeah I
01:00:32
don't think I was cut from that cloth I
01:00:34
don't know yeah I yeah yeah I don't know
01:00:37
I think I think you'd be whatever you do
01:00:39
whatever you put your mind to doing um
01:00:41
you think you're going to be very good
01:00:43
at it um but I think you'd find it
01:00:45
too um we'll leave that to Chris okay
01:00:49
yeah yeah are you a Laxon fan do you not
01:00:52
talk about politics at all I don't talk
01:00:53
about politics but I I appreciate Chris
01:00:55
he's a great person he's a great man and
01:00:58
I like that he's coming in and and
01:00:59
trying to run the country as a as a
01:01:01
business and holding accountability and
01:01:03
sitting kpis and and pushing people
01:01:05
towards those so yeah it's great man hey
01:01:08
so you've you've got a wedding coming up
01:01:09
we're recording this in at the beginning
01:01:11
of July you're getting married in Fiji
01:01:13
next month yep yep yep yep yeah to um
01:01:16
Ali Williams former all black so um be
01:01:19
honest with me when you when when you
01:01:20
are you a rugby fan like were you uh not
01:01:23
overly I mean I grew up in a family with
01:01:25
three brothers yeah
01:01:27
family as well yeah I grew up in a w
01:01:28
family Three Brothers so there was a lot
01:01:30
of rby on the TV my brothers all played
01:01:33
um so you're just you you're you're part
01:01:35
of it but no I've never I've never grown
01:01:38
up specifically as a rby fan so but you
01:01:40
were were so you went like an Aly
01:01:42
Williams fan like oh my God had no idea
01:01:45
who he was when I first met him what he
01:01:47
stands out like but you've got to
01:01:49
remember I hadn't lived in New Zealand
01:01:50
oh yeah to New Zealand I I didn't open
01:01:53
the heral to save myself right like we
01:01:55
were complet completely removed from
01:01:56
anything that was happening in New
01:01:58
Zealand and I was barely ever coming
01:01:59
back here so what I even watched an All
01:02:02
Black's game in my time over there
01:02:03
probably every now and then but it was
01:02:05
over a pint of beer at a at a pub and
01:02:08
enjoying a burger rather than some
01:02:09
pumpkin mashed so it was yeah it was
01:02:12
definitely it was definitely I I had no
01:02:15
idea who was when I first met him um and
01:02:18
yeah so so that was where where where
01:02:20
did you meet uh we met in barley at a
01:02:22
friends a mutual Friend's Wedding oh
01:02:25
amazing yeah
01:02:27
first first impression um first
01:02:28
impression he threw me in a
01:02:31
pool go it did not go down that way do
01:02:35
you think you're a Robo Fish needless to
01:02:37
say yeah I swam like one too I just yeah
01:02:40
burst to life when I hit the water um
01:02:43
yeah so needless to say I wasn't a huge
01:02:45
Ellie fan when I first met him um but
01:02:48
yeah and then he he sort of had this
01:02:50
look of shock of like what have I just
01:02:51
done then he tried to redeem himself and
01:02:53
I you know again I grew up with three
01:02:55
brothers so I was Prett and I lived in
01:02:57
China for 15 years so I was was quite
01:03:00
durable and then um yeah how have you
01:03:03
found the blending family thing so he's
01:03:05
got you you've got three kids from
01:03:07
previous marriage he's got two kids from
01:03:09
previous marriage that's a lot that's a
01:03:10
lot to it's amazing yeah um we both
01:03:14
deeply love children uh he is a
01:03:17
phenomenal father um he's a great friend
01:03:19
he's a great father he's an incredible
01:03:21
partner um someone who is truly so
01:03:24
supportive of whatever I do and whatever
01:03:27
the children do um he has entirely
01:03:30
embraced my three as his own you know
01:03:33
and he and he always says he's so lucky
01:03:35
to have got boys um and likewise his
01:03:37
daughters are Fury angels to to my
01:03:40
daughter and just the relationships that
01:03:42
the children have been able to build has
01:03:43
been really special um you know we have
01:03:47
obviously we've been building um uh home
01:03:50
at the moment on our place in westm and
01:03:52
whilst we've been building that we've
01:03:54
been living with the of us and and two
01:03:57
dogs who are the equivalent size to
01:03:59
small adults uh in a three-bedroom home
01:04:02
so it's been tightnit really close
01:04:05
quarters incredibly loud environment um
01:04:09
but that has been the making of our
01:04:10
family it has been the most bonding time
01:04:13
imaginable you know you couldn't whisper
01:04:14
in the house without someone hearing you
01:04:16
so so all of the children have had to
01:04:18
learn to be very accepting very patient
01:04:20
very willing to understand one another
01:04:21
because they've been living in such
01:04:22
Close Quarters and that's that's that's
01:04:25
it's been incredible you know Kanani our
01:04:28
eldest he's you know teaching the rest
01:04:31
of them you know dedication and
01:04:33
commitment to a cause and he's so driven
01:04:35
to what he does you know Jessica the
01:04:37
next one down I said before she's been
01:04:39
literally the fairy Angel to to Miley
01:04:42
who's a little bit more conservative
01:04:43
more reserved and so she's getting
01:04:45
bought out of her shell in the most
01:04:46
beautiful way the youngest two I thick
01:04:49
is thieves you know they've been
01:04:51
together since literally they were one
01:04:53
or just just shy have even one they've
01:04:55
been together and so they don't know
01:04:57
anything different and you know there is
01:04:59
no commentary around step brother and
01:05:01
sister they are siblings they are
01:05:02
brothers and sisters Ellie is Dad I'm
01:05:05
mom Mamay it doesn't M yeah it's so it's
01:05:09
so close like the family is there's not
01:05:12
really a divide and it is beautiful and
01:05:14
we are very very lucky and they all add
01:05:16
so much to each other and those those
01:05:18
those shared learnings and lessons are
01:05:20
really quite special that that they're
01:05:22
able to grow yeah you must be mely proud
01:05:24
of that because if there's no divide I
01:05:25
mean yeah that's uh that comes down a
01:05:27
lot to you and Ali I think and yeah I
01:05:29
think it's you know we don't have any
01:05:31
different rules across the kids you know
01:05:33
and there's there's this really strong
01:05:35
principles base that we're both aligned
01:05:37
on as well you know I think we grew up
01:05:39
in similar environments with parents
01:05:41
that um that had really high standards
01:05:44
were really strict and cared deeply
01:05:46
about um you know intrinsic human values
01:05:49
and so one of the the most special
01:05:52
things about our our relationship is not
01:05:54
only that we've both performed at is
01:05:56
such a high level we know what it takes
01:05:58
to work at that level so we both Empower
01:06:00
each other to do so um but we've got a
01:06:02
shared aligned Vision on how we want to
01:06:04
raise the children um and that makes a
01:06:07
difference it makes it really symbolic
01:06:09
it's an easy relationship um we both
01:06:12
fully align on how we want to parent the
01:06:15
standards we want to set the creativity
01:06:17
we want them to be nurtured into um the
01:06:20
desire to to to make them children that
01:06:23
appreciate what they've got and want to
01:06:25
work hard for a a future for themselves
01:06:28
and a path or vocation that they choose
01:06:31
rather than something that has been
01:06:32
dictated to them so we're all about
01:06:34
freedom and Independence and and
01:06:36
ensuring that they don't just get given
01:06:39
anything right they' got to work for it
01:06:41
yeah but how how do you how do you do
01:06:42
that how do you avoid spoiling them I
01:06:44
think it's really it's it's hard but
01:06:46
it's so simple you know it's hard you
01:06:49
don't want you don't want um a temped on
01:06:51
your I like this is a far smaller
01:06:53
example but I'm thinking um you a few
01:06:55
years ago JJ and I we with there was a
01:06:57
family adoption and we took our nephew
01:06:59
to LA and we were flying business class
01:07:01
so I was like we'll get him business
01:07:02
class as well and you yeah it's kind of
01:07:05
that's a very small level but it's like
01:07:07
you're trying to give them lessons along
01:07:08
the way we're like now these seats are
01:07:11
very expensive but if you work hard and
01:07:12
you try your best you can have seats
01:07:14
like this when you're older and it's
01:07:16
it's really hard but you don't want to
01:07:17
put yourself in economy class with the
01:07:19
kids do you no but I put them in economy
01:07:21
oh do you yeah 100% why wouldn't you
01:07:24
damn it I should have done that but
01:07:26
honestly we do 100% we do because
01:07:28
they're old enough now to be accountable
01:07:30
and responsible and S an economy and
01:07:32
they need to know that that's not
01:07:34
something you just get div you don't
01:07:36
walk onto a plane and naturally turn
01:07:38
left that's not where it starts I did
01:07:40
not do that until I was well into my 30s
01:07:43
and even then I cringed it every single
01:07:45
time I I did that out of the gate right
01:07:47
it was that was hard and that took a lot
01:07:50
of hard work to get there and so it
01:07:52
you're right it is so so difficult and
01:07:55
we spend a lot of time talking about
01:07:57
that and it's it's the small things it's
01:07:59
the little elements it's being
01:08:00
consistent about how we do them it's
01:08:02
making sure that they have to work for
01:08:04
everything that they get you know I um
01:08:07
remember having a conversation um when
01:08:10
Koo decided he wanted to play tennis and
01:08:13
um I was I'm not just giving you a
01:08:15
tennis racket and he's like but I need a
01:08:16
tennis Rec I was like you can go to
01:08:18
school when you have tennis at lunchtime
01:08:19
I'm sure the teachers will have a racket
01:08:21
that you're able to use and so he was
01:08:23
just borrowing a racket and then one of
01:08:24
the other parents were like you know
01:08:26
this poor Kitt he's got to ask for a
01:08:28
racket every time and gave him a racket
01:08:29
and I was Furious about it because I was
01:08:31
of the opinion you know that doesn't
01:08:33
just happen when he's decided that he's
01:08:35
really committed to the sport and he
01:08:37
really loves the sport he can work for
01:08:39
five weekends in a row around the home
01:08:41
to make some money to be able to buy his
01:08:42
own tennis racket right because you've
01:08:44
got to you've got to build that desire
01:08:46
and that will in children um and if you
01:08:49
don't if you don't have a will and a
01:08:52
desire how will you ever be Innovative
01:08:53
how will you ever be creative how will
01:08:55
you ever overcome barriers down the
01:08:57
track like you've got to have adversity
01:08:59
in your life and so there's so many
01:09:01
things that are completely frictionless
01:09:03
around the environment that we live in
01:09:06
and and how we're raising our children
01:09:07
so many things so how do we build that
01:09:09
friction how do we build that adversity
01:09:12
how do we ensure that the children don't
01:09:14
just get given it and so that's the
01:09:17
fundamental principle from your
01:09:18
perspective that's actually the hard
01:09:20
path to take cuz you you and I I'm
01:09:23
guessing um our upbringing will probably
01:09:25
really similar and I'd ask for things
01:09:26
and my parents would just say we can't
01:09:28
afford it ab and that was the end of the
01:09:29
story but your kids would like Mom's
01:09:32
lying yeah ex well exactly so we we I
01:09:35
can't ever use that line I just have to
01:09:37
I have to I have to say to them can you
01:09:40
afford it or why do you deserve it and
01:09:42
or make me a case study for it so it's
01:09:45
they must think you're the meanest
01:09:46
person in the world
01:09:48
sometimes I mean this is this is a
01:09:51
terrible parenting moment but kind of a
01:09:52
funny one at the same time and this was
01:09:54
just last week um but I mean this just
01:09:56
sort of tells you a little bit about our
01:09:58
environment so the obviously the long
01:10:00
weekend the girls so the girls school
01:10:04
they have this habit of putting a parent
01:10:06
teacher day before a long weekend so the
01:10:09
girls got the Thursday off and the
01:10:11
Friday off and the Saturday Sunday right
01:10:13
so they had a four-day weekend rather
01:10:14
than three-day weekend now the boys
01:10:16
school never has PE parent teach parent
01:10:18
uh sorry teacher only days they have
01:10:22
longer school hours they really you know
01:10:24
are expected prob to to have quite a
01:10:27
high standard around how they show up
01:10:28
and how they um they turn up they have
01:10:30
more you know Chapel days on the weekend
01:10:32
etc etc so the kids were feeling the
01:10:34
boys were feeling really put out by the
01:10:36
fact that the girls again got Thursday
01:10:38
out so I got home on Thursday night and
01:10:41
Poo's got this you know a bound a
01:10:45
ringbound like a speech set of notes and
01:10:48
he says can I talk to you Mom Dad I want
01:10:50
to talk to you I've got something to
01:10:51
discuss he's seven takes us up to the
01:10:53
bedroom he's sitting on the bed he like
01:10:55
is going to be fun and he goes through
01:10:57
the five reasons why he shouldn't have
01:10:59
to go to school the next day when the
01:11:00
girls had to go didn't have to go to
01:11:02
school so I mean it was great it was
01:11:04
funny things like you know I'll get to
01:11:05
spend more time with you in the morning
01:11:07
you get to sleep in going to take us to
01:11:09
the school bus which was a wi um he said
01:11:11
it make us bacon and eggs for breakfast
01:11:12
another one um the next one was you know
01:11:15
he was the only kid all week that had
01:11:16
homework every single night and he got
01:11:18
it done he hadn't complained which he it
01:11:19
was actually true as well which is quite
01:11:21
impressive for him um I can't remember
01:11:23
what the other reasons were anyway there
01:11:24
were five reasons for five reasons so
01:11:26
all the kids Ellie and I sitting on the
01:11:27
floor as he's giving us his reasons and
01:11:30
then we got to the end of it and I was
01:11:31
like I don't even want I don't always
01:11:32
want to be the good guy you know deep
01:11:34
down I just wanted to give it to my baby
01:11:36
boy you know but I turned around I like
01:11:38
I I can't make this decision you know
01:11:40
from my perspective I I say no but you
01:11:43
know how this family needs to work is
01:11:45
that we need to have a voting system so
01:11:47
um ultimately you kids are one vote the
01:11:50
five of you are one vote and our family
01:11:52
Allie's one vote and I'm one vote my
01:11:54
vote is no the kids vot is obviously yes
01:11:56
so ell this is on you so it turns to him
01:11:59
you know cuz I didn't want to have to I
01:12:00
just don't want to always have to give
01:12:02
them stuff right so it turns to allly
01:12:04
and he's like you know what the case
01:12:05
study was fantastic but there's there's
01:12:08
got to be some ground rules here so what
01:12:10
chores you going to do around the house
01:12:11
tomorrow I I want breakfast but also I
01:12:13
want you to bring me in lunch so the
01:12:15
kids then had to you know agree to bring
01:12:17
us in lunch walk the dogs um and come
01:12:20
and work in the office for the afternoon
01:12:22
actually that that was just going to be
01:12:23
a shambles right like you can't get
01:12:24
anything done when you got five kids
01:12:26
running around the office playing
01:12:27
foosball and whatever so that was that
01:12:30
was the negotiation at this point and
01:12:31
then he's like and I want 700 press UPS
01:12:34
in the next half hour so then the kids
01:12:37
proceeded to between them 700 press ups
01:12:40
between them in a circle on the floor
01:12:44
and it started off with them doing 10
01:12:45
each and then it got slower and slower
01:12:47
and then the little ones were doing
01:12:48
rounds of 20 while the big ones were
01:12:50
still like stumbling through five it was
01:12:53
actually quite impressive to watch but
01:12:54
they got this 700 press ups done they
01:12:56
made us bacon eggs they turned up with
01:12:57
their lunch at the office they walked
01:12:59
the dogs they had a day off
01:13:02
school don't know what the excuse was to
01:13:04
school about why the boys weren't there
01:13:06
but you know it's yeah I don't know how
01:13:08
that segue into that but that's a great
01:13:10
that's a great story it was you know
01:13:12
that's how that's how it's How
01:13:14
environment that's their household that
01:13:15
they're getting raised in and it's you
01:13:16
know you don't just get a simple oh can
01:13:18
I have the D school tomorrow cuz the
01:13:20
girls have got it off you know like sure
01:13:23
that's an optionality but where's the
01:13:25
why behind it all what is the sacrifice
01:13:27
you've got to make for us to actually
01:13:29
want to go down that path and enable
01:13:31
that for you yeah so that's awesome do
01:13:33
you do you have a crash I do yeah 100%
01:13:37
yeah I'm crash when when's this what
01:13:38
does a and what does a crash look like
01:13:39
for you a crash looks like an entire day
01:13:41
or two in bed where I'm just absolutely
01:13:45
tanked bottomed out um it's probably my
01:13:49
worst habit is the fact that I go to a
01:13:51
crash yeah I'm not I'm not good at
01:13:53
managing that so is it is it Ellie good
01:13:56
at sort of um you hand breaking you or
01:13:57
pulling the rins in or how do you
01:13:59
balance each other out hand
01:14:01
bre no that's the impression I get
01:14:04
but so's he between the two of us I mean
01:14:07
it's it's hard to put a handbreak on him
01:14:09
and me so we just we're just on that
01:14:11
what what would he say your best and
01:14:13
worst traits are you reckon oh I don't
01:14:15
know maybe you can find a friend and ask
01:14:17
him what about him what would you say
01:14:18
his best in
01:14:19
where um oh his his absolute best trait
01:14:24
is his positivity and his desire to just
01:14:29
make things happen around him like he
01:14:31
shows up 110% all the time his worst
01:14:35
trait is that he gets out of bed with
01:14:37
that attitude in the morning and he
01:14:38
wakes up with such high
01:14:41
energy when I'm a really slow morning
01:14:44
person are you I find that difficult to
01:14:46
believe oh I I'm I'm a I'm a late
01:14:48
nighter yeah y I love it I can I'll stay
01:14:50
up and I'll work until 1 or two o'clock
01:14:52
in the morning you know you know I
01:14:54
started I had this weekend it was so
01:14:57
lovely we just fully relaxed and I
01:14:59
picked up a book on Saturday morning and
01:15:01
I finished it on Saturday night so I
01:15:03
mean I finished on Sunday night at 1:00
01:15:05
a.m. last night and I was still quite
01:15:06
happy just getting through that book
01:15:08
right like that's where that's my happy
01:15:09
plac is getting right late into the
01:15:11
night so morning are a struggle so if
01:15:14
you if you guys are watching like a TV
01:15:15
show or a movie which I'm guessing you
01:15:16
don't do all that often are you are you
01:15:18
good at like just doing that one thing
01:15:20
at a time or are you constantly on a
01:15:21
device or doing a second thing at the
01:15:24
same time
01:15:25
yeah I'm definitely a center for that
01:15:28
but hey look so so's the so's the Next
01:15:30
Generation right yeah yeah yeah I mean I
01:15:33
can you know you can you see children on
01:15:35
like three different devices at one time
01:15:37
and I mean it's yeah it's quite scary
01:15:40
and so are all the kids going over to
01:15:42
the wedding are they all going to be
01:15:43
there yeah of course they're excited
01:15:46
it's so fun that you can have them as
01:15:47
part of it it's actually really special
01:15:50
it's actually really really special and
01:15:52
just being able to have them you know a
01:15:55
give the blessing for it but be be able
01:15:57
to be part of those memories is it's
01:15:59
really it's really beautiful that's cool
01:16:03
is um who's going is Dan or Richie going
01:16:05
or anyone you just are so nosy aren't
01:16:08
you a little bit don't
01:16:10
answer I'll wait until it's a new idea
01:16:13
or oh gosh let's hope not no yeah yeah
01:16:16
are you con concerned about that that
01:16:17
aspect of it keeping it quiet or
01:16:19
anything or I don't your around you've
01:16:21
got to control what you can control and
01:16:24
the media is not something that I can
01:16:25
necessarily control so yeah yeah and and
01:16:30
does does that mind you tips and trips
01:16:32
for me what no I've been ter terrible as
01:16:34
well you just can't get too wound up
01:16:35
about it i' I've been trying to tell my
01:16:37
my partner that cuz it's um yeah she
01:16:40
she's she's sort of been experienced it
01:16:42
for the first time just sort of recently
01:16:44
and it's it's tough and I tell her oh
01:16:46
just don't read the comments and stuff
01:16:47
but if you're not used to that it's um
01:16:49
easier said than done isn't it yeah I
01:16:51
think it's always easier said than done
01:16:52
and you think about how hard it is for
01:16:54
us now
01:16:55
you know and how difficult is as adults
01:16:57
to be able to cope and deal with that
01:16:59
it's no wonder that children are having
01:17:01
so many challenges with their digital
01:17:02
connectivity of the world that we live
01:17:04
in as well isn't it but yeah I mean my
01:17:07
theory is just don't read it yeah
01:17:08
because you yeah you you told me when we
01:17:10
sat down I came up with a couple of fun
01:17:12
facts like like about your pet sheep and
01:17:14
stuff and you're like how did you know
01:17:15
that I said WR it about you I still
01:17:17
don't understand how you know that you
01:17:18
you don't read um you you you try to
01:17:20
avoid reading anything about yourself
01:17:22
yeah just it's not healthy or I just or
01:17:25
pisses you off I just I don't see any
01:17:27
need you know I I just again it's sort
01:17:29
of looking retrospectively I just I
01:17:32
don't spend any time in that space I
01:17:34
really don't I'm always moving forward
01:17:36
and looking forward and it's just how
01:17:38
I'm programmed it's how I'm built but I
01:17:40
also think that's one of the best
01:17:42
attributes I have is the fact that I
01:17:44
don't get way laid in the past um and
01:17:47
being able to single-mindedly just be
01:17:49
forward focused is is really fantastic
01:17:52
so um I just yeah I don't have a des
01:17:54
desire to read about myself I don't
01:17:57
really like engaging in that space I
01:18:00
don't think I'm anything special I don't
01:18:01
think I'm anything different and so that
01:18:03
for me means that I find all of that
01:18:05
quite
01:18:07
uncomfortable yeah but but you are you
01:18:09
are you are different and special by the
01:18:11
fact of like what you've achieved in
01:18:12
business and you're still very young
01:18:14
like you've done some incredible things
01:18:16
hey yeah and you should spend time to
01:18:19
pause and reflect on on just the
01:18:20
Brilliance of what you and your your
01:18:22
brothers have done cuz it's it's
01:18:24
something special if nothing else it's
01:18:25
been an incredible journey M and an
01:18:28
incredible set of learnings and lessons
01:18:30
and I'm just I'm so grateful that now I
01:18:33
get to keep on imparting those on other
01:18:35
people and if you want to use like a
01:18:36
rugby analogy like you you're still in
01:18:38
the first half oh yeah just getting
01:18:41
started the second half is still to come
01:18:43
yeah that's exciting thing isn't it so
01:18:45
much more ahead any more any more kits
01:18:47
for you guys or are you absolutely done
01:18:49
with what you've got if you asked Ellie
01:18:51
that he would say absolutely he would
01:18:54
love more
01:18:56
shop is shut at this end of the deal AR
01:18:58
will adopt I definitely think we'll
01:19:00
adopt it's uh really yeah I just you
01:19:03
know there's a lot of kids in need so
01:19:05
how do we help again some some other
01:19:09
kids what what sort of vehicle are you
01:19:10
guys rolling around in there what that's
01:19:12
a really good question because we
01:19:14
legitimately have a van we have a 12
01:19:17
seater and it is a 12 seater you have
01:19:20
some friends and you have no idea how
01:19:22
often the 12 seater is full like most
01:19:25
all weekend we drive the 12 seater um so
01:19:27
it's got the dogs it's got the kids it's
01:19:29
got Ali and I it's got the neighbors
01:19:30
it's got the kids friends we've got
01:19:31
friends we've got friends again there's
01:19:33
at least 10 kids rolling out of it On
01:19:34
Any Given Saturday it's we like that
01:19:37
vehicle it's probably our choice of our
01:19:40
choice mode of transportation oh my God
01:19:43
that's a lot it's brilliant is it's like
01:19:44
it's like a team you guys are running
01:19:46
should we pick you up what are you up to
01:19:47
this weekend or just swing on by jumping
01:19:50
it's got flashing lights sound system I
01:19:52
mean it's sounds chaotic sounds CH I
01:19:55
think I'll pass on this should I throw
01:19:56
the Lambs in there as well or should
01:19:58
leave them at home where where are the
01:20:00
Lambs the Lambs have gone back to the
01:20:02
farm right right yeah yeah we just have
01:20:03
them for that you know again a lesson
01:20:05
and life and accountability and raising
01:20:08
animals is a great way to learn to show
01:20:10
up and on time and be there and be
01:20:12
present and have someone else reliant on
01:20:13
you so so many lessons are they um I
01:20:15
grew up in I grew up as a as a country
01:20:18
kid right so I always got to raise lambs
01:20:21
have my egg day experience so in some
01:20:23
ways I'm just figuring out I can impart
01:20:26
that on on the CES and we had we had a
01:20:27
pet duckling as well that was that was
01:20:29
the most recent pet so he's been let
01:20:31
free in Western Springs as as part of
01:20:34
the lesson with the Lambs to teach the
01:20:35
kids how to cope with um your death and
01:20:37
disappointment no the L the Lambs have
01:20:41
gone back to the
01:20:43
farm and then
01:20:45
what no they get fashioned up and I do
01:20:48
not know what happens
01:20:50
thereafter all I know is that they are
01:20:52
very joile they're very happy Lambs yeah
01:20:54
that's great hey um it's been really
01:20:56
enjoyable sitting down with actually our
01:20:58
first ever land that that we did get
01:21:00
he's still alive he's now on a farm and
01:21:02
W hickey getting very well looked after
01:21:04
and the kids even visit him still to
01:21:06
this day so there has been no lesson on
01:21:09
the on the circle of life as of yet yeah
01:21:11
because um one of my best mates Andy he
01:21:14
his um his dad still calls him Percy as
01:21:16
a as a family nickname and it turns out
01:21:18
um when Andy was real little um he had a
01:21:21
pet sheep called Percy and then um was a
01:21:23
family Stitch that everyone knew about a
01:21:25
Pat from Andy but one day they were
01:21:26
eating lamb and it was like then the
01:21:28
whole family started laughing and Andy
01:21:30
was like six at the time and he was
01:21:32
eating
01:21:34
piy Nick and I in the 80s Nick Nick and
01:21:37
I when we were kids our pet Lambs were
01:21:39
called chips and chops and uh Nick
01:21:42
definitely went through that same
01:21:43
Journey um to the point where he stopped
01:21:45
eating lamb all together he was just not
01:21:46
having a bar of it once he he learned
01:21:48
about the circle of life thanks to Elder
01:21:49
Brothers right yeah it's always the
01:21:51
Elder ones that have got the personal
01:21:52
joke on you it's character building yeah
01:21:55
how's this been for you today has this
01:21:56
been okay yeah it's been fun I mean I'm
01:21:59
a little bit disappointed that Kanye
01:22:01
chose the couch rather than my LP I
01:22:03
thought that I might have broken down
01:22:05
the barriers to his acceptance but not
01:22:07
quite Kanye how old is he he's like 10
01:22:11
he's a low energy now we just need a
01:22:12
camera swing around to the pooch don't
01:22:14
we yeah it's um it's as soon as I it's
01:22:16
the first dog I've ever had I've never
01:22:18
never sort of been into dogs oh I love
01:22:20
dogs um and as soon as I got them I
01:22:21
started Googling straight away that
01:22:23
breed and how long they live for cuz I
01:22:24
just knew I was going to be devastated
01:22:26
when that time comes um yeah I'm going
01:22:28
to be I'm going to be a mess for weeks
01:22:30
yeah that's such a part of the family
01:22:32
aren't they a mess a part of the family
01:22:34
something very special about that though
01:22:36
so so you got the wedding coming up then
01:22:38
um
01:22:39
honeymoon uh we'll tap it onto the back
01:22:41
right yeah it'll just all get looped and
01:22:43
no time no time to go somewhere else
01:22:44
yeah do you guys have like opas or
01:22:46
Nannies who uh we've got the most like
01:22:49
I've just got some incredible woman
01:22:51
around me um from Britney who's my EA to
01:22:55
to you know our Nanny that helps out
01:22:57
with the kids we're very very fortunate
01:22:59
having people that just it takes a it
01:23:02
takes a village to raise a family right
01:23:04
it does and I remember so deeply how
01:23:06
closely tied we were to our neighbors
01:23:08
when we were all growing up and how
01:23:09
everyone just pulled together and
01:23:11
allowed for that support and yeah we've
01:23:13
got the most incredible people around us
01:23:15
that just take the hard route rather
01:23:18
than the easy route when it comes to
01:23:20
raising the kids the hard route being
01:23:22
actually following a set of family
01:23:24
values that are really important to
01:23:25
reflect onto the children when it's not
01:23:27
always easy right so it's you know
01:23:29
helping the kids cook dinner once a week
01:23:31
or actually them doing the dishes rather
01:23:33
than doing them for them which is always
01:23:34
far more messy with more broken plates
01:23:36
and and more water on the floor than it
01:23:38
is if you did it yourself but it's it's
01:23:40
those moments in time that are really
01:23:42
important or you pack your own bag and
01:23:44
when you forgotten your lunch box we're
01:23:46
not showing up with it you know it's
01:23:48
it's those hard it's the hard moments
01:23:49
that you have to live by but when you
01:23:52
find the right people that are that are
01:23:53
happy to support you on that Journey it
01:23:55
goes a really long way I think I love
01:23:56
that there so many lessons and what
01:23:58
about um what are you going to do with
01:23:59
your name your name I feel like it's so
01:24:02
nosy is that nosy it's it's so it's so
01:24:05
good I mean this is this is what you get
01:24:06
to do isn't it you have to wa and see I
01:24:10
okay you know CU I feel like your name's
01:24:12
your name is s of a brand in a way and
01:24:14
and yeah so that'll be interesting I
01:24:16
kept it first time round so what am I
01:24:18
going to do Second Time Around yeah yeah
01:24:21
how do you um yeah
01:24:25
youve been I've been married before as
01:24:26
well I'm kind of gunshot to do it again
01:24:28
but yeah I said that as well but when
01:24:31
it's easy and it's right yeah it's easy
01:24:33
and it's right and I think for us and
01:24:35
the family it's really important to
01:24:36
solidify that family unit um the kids
01:24:40
want it the kids desperately want it and
01:24:42
that's such a neat part of our journey
01:24:44
in the sense that they're actually
01:24:46
helping to push that forward yeah I yeah
01:24:48
I always said the same thing as I've
01:24:49
done it once I don't need to do it again
01:24:52
but I think when you find the right
01:24:53
person it just it's easy the decision
01:24:55
makes
01:24:56
itself he is the right person eh I can
01:24:58
see it in your eyes yeah he's he's he's
01:25:01
amazing he's such a he's such a good man
01:25:03
yeah oh that's cool we had some Runnings
01:25:05
when I was when I was on the radio I
01:25:07
yeah so we he he broke I can imagine you
01:25:10
doing that he broke his he broke his jaw
01:25:13
once there was a jaw breaking thing and
01:25:15
then um we got our producer to do like a
01:25:16
character so we see we had an interview
01:25:18
are you are you about to tell me that
01:25:19
you attacked him when he had his jaw his
01:25:22
jaw screwed shut this doesn't just
01:25:24
reflects quite badly on your dog no I
01:25:26
forget what happened exactly but I think
01:25:27
we saw in the media thing and he was
01:25:28
like oh you guys took the puss out of me
01:25:30
blah BL but I um I've always um admired
01:25:32
him like he he he had that sort of
01:25:34
character that most rugby players don't
01:25:36
have yeah he's got a big personality I
01:25:38
think he was s of misunderstood by a lot
01:25:40
of lot of the media ah but then he's
01:25:42
very well understood by all of his
01:25:44
friends and family so again doesn't
01:25:46
matter what the media says and how they
01:25:48
want to portray any scenario is really
01:25:52
it comes down to whether you want to
01:25:53
read it or not and and just being as
01:25:55
long as you know who you are and having
01:25:57
conviction in yourself you know that's
01:25:59
how you've got a power through any of
01:26:01
that side of things the media is always
01:26:03
going to sensationalize whatever they
01:26:04
can AR they absolutely take people how
01:26:06
you find them yeah rather than just
01:26:08
believe what you read y yeah yep and and
01:26:10
show up to be accepting of people and
01:26:12
want to learn about them Anna Mo thank
01:26:14
you so much for your time today you're
01:26:16
so welcome thanks for thanks for having
01:26:18
me yeah bloody great how's it been not
01:26:20
tooo not too P this is you've done a lot
01:26:21
of business podcasts this is your first
01:26:23
sort of
01:26:24
podcast about you as an overall person
01:26:27
yeah it was fun yeah it was fun you know
01:26:31
we down through a few different few
01:26:33
different Alleyways um you tried to dig
01:26:35
some personal nitty bitty bits out of me
01:26:38
but I feel like I got got to off a
01:26:40
couple of times couple of times I felt
01:26:41
like I was the airen on TV guy in the
01:26:44
courtroom I wouldn't want to I wouldn't
01:26:46
want to with you do we get to spin
01:26:47
it around now and I get to interview you
01:26:49
absolutely not get your own podcast yeah
01:26:52
no maybe next time if you can into your
01:26:54
incredibly hectic I'll find time you
01:26:56
just let me know Anna Mo thank you so
01:26:58
much thank you
01:27:04
[Music]
