00:00:00
What are what are your long-term
00:00:01
predictions for Sam Ruth?
00:00:03
>> I think he's going to go down as one of
00:00:04
New Zealand's greats. It's
00:00:06
>> it's the distance before that we were
00:00:07
talking about that New Zealand has got a
00:00:08
stacked history. So, that is a big
00:00:10
shout.
00:00:11
>> Yep. Yeah. I I really think that he's
00:00:13
got he's got the capability to
00:00:15
>> do something really special.
00:00:16
>> Like saying saying something like that
00:00:18
could be like a like a just a mountain
00:00:21
of pressure for someone. You obviously
00:00:23
know him well enough to know that he can
00:00:24
hear something like this and handle it.
00:00:26
>> Yeah, I think he can. For me, it's not
00:00:27
I'm not expecting him to do that, but I
00:00:29
just think he can do that. So, um, from
00:00:32
for me, it's not putting pressure on him
00:00:34
because, you know, he'll just he'll just
00:00:36
do as well as he can, but I just think
00:00:38
that's that's where it's going to lead.
00:00:40
>> Craig Kirkwood, welcome to my podcast.
00:00:42
>> Thank you very much for having me,
00:00:43
>> mate. It's been a couple of years in the
00:00:44
making.
00:00:44
>> I know you've been hounding me for a
00:00:46
while and I finally succumbed and agreed
00:00:48
to come up.
00:00:49
>> It took it took a Metallica concert.
00:00:51
just to the conversation. You're in
00:00:53
Oakuckland um from your home in Toadong
00:00:55
for a Metallica concert.
00:00:56
>> That's right. Yeah. Came out with my son
00:00:58
this morning. So, um good excuse to come
00:01:00
and um do this podcast with you and
00:01:02
thank you for having me and uh go to
00:01:04
Metallica, which should be awesome.
00:01:06
>> When when you when you train these days
00:01:08
just for fitness or for fun or whatever,
00:01:10
do you do you raw dog it or do you wear
00:01:12
headphones? What are you listening to?
00:01:14
>> I never wear headphones when I run. I
00:01:15
never have. Um no, I just uh raw dog it.
00:01:18
just yeah I just enjoy being out running
00:01:20
and normally I run with friends so um
00:01:22
we're just banter is flying and having
00:01:24
fun.
00:01:24
>> What what do you do these days in terms
00:01:26
of training?
00:01:27
>> Uh I'm I'm doing a stupid challenge this
00:01:29
year where I'm trying to run every day
00:01:30
of the year which so far has um been
00:01:33
successful. So I've only got another six
00:01:35
weeks to go. So um and that's really
00:01:38
just what I'm doing. Just just run
00:01:39
around every day and just enjoy it. And
00:01:42
um we'll see what happens next year.
00:01:44
>> Streaks. Streaks. Not how many a minimum
00:01:47
amount of kilometers per day?
00:01:48
>> Uh 30 minute minimum every day. So yeah,
00:01:51
it's um Oh, it has its challenges. I've
00:01:54
had a little injury here and there and
00:01:55
get sick and um lose motivation and not
00:01:58
be not interested but still get out the
00:02:00
door and get it done.
00:02:02
>> Yes. So you're like a a super coach
00:02:04
these days. Um as an athlete, you were
00:02:06
probably at your peak what like 15 years
00:02:08
ago, 12 years.
00:02:10
>> Yes. Maybe more. And you were bloody you
00:02:14
bloody bloody quick, too. Um, back in
00:02:16
the day. Uh, what sort of pace are you
00:02:17
running now for these 30-minute runs?
00:02:19
>> Um, normally around 445 per kilometer,
00:02:22
just normal kind of pace. Yeah, jog
00:02:24
around. Sometimes it's a bit slower,
00:02:25
sometimes a little bit quicker, but
00:02:27
about there.
00:02:27
>> Fantastic. Is this the first time we've
00:02:30
met? I feel like I know you, but I I
00:02:32
also think this may be the first time
00:02:34
we've met.
00:02:34
>> Yeah, I know. I think you're right. Um,
00:02:35
I don't I don't recall having met
00:02:37
before, so yeah, it's been a an honor
00:02:40
for me.
00:02:40
>> Oh, likewise. Likewise. Um, yeah. I
00:02:43
mean, you go to any sort of organized
00:02:44
running event around the country and you
00:02:46
will see like a number of CK singlets,
00:02:49
which is Craig Kirkwood, which I think
00:02:51
says a lot about you as a coach that I
00:02:53
mean, coaching people is one thing, but
00:02:54
then having people wear your merch.
00:02:56
>> Yeah.
00:02:57
>> It speaks volumes about how how much,
00:03:00
you know, esteem they hold you in. I
00:03:01
think
00:03:02
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's um it goes
00:03:03
I think it goes a little bit deeper than
00:03:05
that and that people want to pull on the
00:03:06
singlet and they want to represent
00:03:08
someone or something and um it gives
00:03:10
them a sense of unity and in a group and
00:03:12
a culture and um and they wear it with
00:03:14
pride and I think that's pretty special
00:03:16
that they do that. And another thing, I
00:03:19
don't know if you if you remember this,
00:03:20
but um I did this uh um charity
00:03:23
challenge maybe five, six years ago
00:03:25
called Five and Five where I was running
00:03:26
five marathons in 5 days to
00:03:28
>> raise money for this young girl for um
00:03:30
cancer um who was suffering from cancer.
00:03:33
And you messaged me out of the blue
00:03:35
saying, "Hey, I hear you're doing this
00:03:36
thing. If you need some help with the
00:03:37
coaching, let me know." Then I sent you
00:03:39
a reply saying, "Oh, I've got my coach
00:03:41
Ian who's helping me, but maybe I can
00:03:42
link you up with him and you guys can
00:03:43
talk together." and um you said, "Oh, I
00:03:47
I don't want to stand on anyone's toes.
00:03:48
I don't want to get involved." Which I
00:03:49
thought was a real
00:03:51
>> um yeah, first of all, it was nice of
00:03:53
you to reach out. Um but it was also
00:03:54
like a lovely response and respectful
00:03:56
response as well, I thought.
00:03:58
>> Yeah. I mean, I've always been um really
00:03:59
careful um around uh
00:04:03
athletes and their their current
00:04:05
coaching relationships and making sure
00:04:06
that um those are really solid and you
00:04:08
know, I'm not getting in between um
00:04:10
anyone and their coach. And I think in
00:04:11
that situation, I saw that you were
00:04:13
doing it and I thought that's really
00:04:14
cool initiative and um cool thing that
00:04:16
you're doing and if you didn't have any
00:04:18
help then maybe you wanted some and you
00:04:19
already had it. So, um I was happy to
00:04:22
kind of stand back and watch and and
00:04:24
yeah enjoy what you're doing.
00:04:25
>> Is that um is that a big thing in
00:04:27
coaching circles like a coaching
00:04:28
etiquette thing like you don't try and
00:04:29
like poach anyone or you don't like
00:04:32
>> It is for me. Yeah. I'm I'm always very
00:04:34
cautious um if that situation arises
00:04:37
where an athletees looking to make some
00:04:38
changes and um I always want to make
00:04:41
sure that their their uh previous
00:04:43
coaching relationship is tidied before
00:04:45
we were engaged and um start working
00:04:47
together. Yeah.
00:04:49
>> So there's there's a lot to work through
00:04:50
on this podcast today. Like I've um
00:04:52
singled out a few of the um high
00:04:54
performance athletes that you work with
00:04:55
to chat about. I mentioned on Instagram
00:04:57
that you're coming in and there was um
00:04:59
lots of lots of great questions there.
00:05:01
>> Shout out to
00:05:03
I mean, also there's the the Craig
00:05:05
Kirkwood story himself in your career.
00:05:07
Um, but I put into chat GPT um the AI
00:05:11
tool that you're coming in. Um, do you
00:05:13
want to know what Chat GPT said about
00:05:15
you?
00:05:15
>> Yeah, go ahead. That' be be amusing.
00:05:17
>> He is regarded and you can tell me if
00:05:18
this is correct or if AI is completely
00:05:20
off the mark here. He is regarded as a
00:05:22
blunt, structured, and data driven uh
00:05:25
and data driven. Obsessed with
00:05:26
consistency, one of the best in New
00:05:28
Zealand at turning good athletes into
00:05:30
exceptional athletes, and a coach who
00:05:32
genuinely gives a damn. CK isn't a
00:05:35
clipboard from the sidelines guy. He
00:05:38
trains, races, and suffers right
00:05:39
alongside his athletes.
00:05:41
>> Ah, yeah. And honored. That's what it
00:05:43
says. Yeah, sure. We'll go with that.
00:05:46
>> Do Do you still suffer alongside your
00:05:48
athletes?
00:05:48
>> Uh, I do at times. Yeah, I get out there
00:05:50
and um do some workouts with some of the
00:05:53
athletes. Not the young the young fellas
00:05:54
these days cuz they're way too quick for
00:05:56
me. But um I certainly get out there and
00:05:58
and participate. Yeah. Enjoy suffering.
00:06:01
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean some of the some
00:06:03
Yeah. I mean you're dealing with like
00:06:04
Olympic and and Commonwealth level
00:06:06
athletes, so obviously you're not doing
00:06:08
the speed work with the V board.
00:06:09
>> No, definitely not.
00:06:10
>> Yeah. Um one thing I wanted to ask you
00:06:13
about, there's not really a I don't
00:06:15
know. I was going to say there's not
00:06:16
really a direct correlation, but maybe
00:06:18
maybe there is. Um just in terms of high
00:06:20
perform performance sport coaching, one
00:06:22
of the big stories of 2025 has been um
00:06:24
Dame Nolan and the Silver Ferns and um
00:06:28
just you know she's she was stood down
00:06:29
and um apparently some athletes thought
00:06:31
she was a bit tough or something.
00:06:34
What what are your thoughts on that high
00:06:35
performance sport in particular and you
00:06:37
in terms of like how far you can push
00:06:39
athletes and what you can do with them?
00:06:41
>> Yeah, it's a really interesting
00:06:43
question. Um, I think from my point of
00:06:46
view, I'm not the kind of coach who will
00:06:49
bark or demand things of athletes. Um,
00:06:53
I'm really there to help facilitate them
00:06:56
be their best and they need to be self
00:06:58
motivated um to actually achieve that.
00:07:00
it's not my role to push them into
00:07:02
anything that they're not interested in
00:07:03
doing or um you know if I feel like I'm
00:07:07
um stepping over the line in terms of
00:07:10
what's acceptable for me then I I
00:07:12
definitely wouldn't do that but um yeah
00:07:14
so but I know there's lots of coaches
00:07:17
who are in that space and maybe a little
00:07:19
bit more old school in the way they
00:07:20
approach um their you know coach athlete
00:07:22
relationships
00:07:25
>> because I'm thinking one of the one of
00:07:26
one of the one of the fastest runners
00:07:28
you deal with is um Samuel
00:07:29
>> Tanner Mhm.
00:07:30
>> Um who who's he's a lar.
00:07:32
>> Yeah, he is.
00:07:33
>> Like do you ever have to have to blast
00:07:35
him or
00:07:36
>> No, I don't think I've ever once blasted
00:07:38
him. No. Um I I I've coached Sam since
00:07:41
he was quite well not quite young. He
00:07:42
was probably what 17 or something. So um
00:07:45
and
00:07:46
we've always had a really good
00:07:48
relationship. um pretty good mates and
00:07:52
we've had a lot of honest conversations
00:07:54
where we've talked about stuff really
00:07:57
honestly, but never from a never from a
00:08:00
point of me telling him off or him
00:08:02
feeling like he's being told off. It's
00:08:04
more just from a place of love and care
00:08:06
rather than um a place of, you know, you
00:08:08
must do this and you must do that. It's
00:08:09
not the way I operate. Yeah.
00:08:10
>> Just like brutal honesty, would you call
00:08:12
it?
00:08:12
>> Yeah. Just when sometimes you just need
00:08:14
to have those conversations and they're
00:08:15
not easy to have. um you have to be
00:08:17
tactful in the way that you bring them
00:08:19
up and um the way you start the
00:08:21
conversation, the way you hold it and
00:08:22
and the way you leave it um are really
00:08:24
important. So yeah, I I spoke to Sam
00:08:27
yesterday um um he said one of um CK's
00:08:29
strengths is the balance between tough
00:08:31
and understanding.
00:08:32
>> Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a fair fair
00:08:34
statement.
00:08:34
>> Are you um not that this is the role
00:08:37
that you signed up for, but with your
00:08:38
athletes, are you a psychologist at
00:08:40
times?
00:08:41
>> I try not to be. Um
00:08:44
yeah, I mean sometimes, you know, you
00:08:46
have to um delve into the psychology of
00:08:49
what they're doing and um the way they
00:08:51
operate um you know, in a race
00:08:53
environment and and off and off the
00:08:55
racing course. Um but yeah, I mean I'm
00:08:58
not I'm not a psychologist and I don't
00:09:00
pretend to be and so I always try and
00:09:02
stick to my lane and if they need some
00:09:04
professional support then we go looking
00:09:06
for that.
00:09:07
>> What's the hardest part about coaching
00:09:09
elite athletes that regular people would
00:09:11
never even think about? Is there
00:09:12
anything that stands out?
00:09:13
>> Uh, I think dealing um dealing with
00:09:16
federations is probably the hardest
00:09:18
part. So, I I'm a private coach and I
00:09:21
work independently. Um, but I'm also
00:09:24
coaching high performance athletes and
00:09:25
they're part of a high performance
00:09:26
structure. Um, and so dealing with that
00:09:29
structure can sometimes be a little bit
00:09:31
frustrating. Um, and has it has its
00:09:33
challenges. Yeah.
00:09:34
>> Politics.
00:09:34
>> Just politics. Yeah. And a lot of box
00:09:37
ticking. um a lot of unnecessary
00:09:39
meetings and conversations that um don't
00:09:41
really lead to much. Yeah,
00:09:44
>> this is going to be such a great
00:09:45
episode. Um first of all, I want to wind
00:09:47
the clock back and go uh um back to the
00:09:50
early years of Craig Kirkwood. So um
00:09:52
>> it's a long way back.
00:09:53
>> Timaroo.
00:09:53
>> Yeah,
00:09:54
>> Tim's heart.
00:09:55
>> Tim's heart Tim is proud.
00:09:57
>> Actually Tim,
00:09:58
>> you mentioned that before. I said I
00:10:00
don't know why, but I didn't think you'd
00:10:01
be a Metallica guy. And you're like,
00:10:02
well, I'm I'm from Timaroo. So it turns
00:10:04
out you're going to Metallica tonight
00:10:05
and then tool again in a few nights.
00:10:07
>> So what attracted you were 14 when you
00:10:10
started running?
00:10:11
>> Yeah, about 14. So must been third form
00:10:13
at school or year nine as it is now.
00:10:14
>> What attracted you to running?
00:10:16
>> Uh I think it was just that I wasn't
00:10:19
very good at um being part of a team
00:10:21
sport. Um I I I like to have
00:10:24
accountability for my own actions and um
00:10:26
being in a team environment wasn't
00:10:28
really for me and didn't really uh
00:10:29
fulfill that. So um and I was quite good
00:10:31
at running. I, you know, had some some
00:10:34
events that I did during intermediate
00:10:36
school and um, you know, did really well
00:10:38
on those and I think it just kind of fit
00:10:40
nicely with my psyche.
00:10:42
>> Naturally gifted or just a grinder?
00:10:46
>> Bit of both.
00:10:47
>> Bit of both maybe.
00:10:48
>> Yeah.
00:10:48
>> Yeah.
00:10:49
>> When did you first hear about Arthur
00:10:51
Lyd?
00:10:53
>> Maybe when I was about 13 or 14. Um, I
00:10:56
remember him coming to Timaru um to do a
00:10:59
camp. Um he was actually in Geraldine
00:11:01
just near Timu but he um he was there
00:11:04
doing a camp and we went out and um
00:11:06
joined that and it was yeah pretty
00:11:08
pretty special to be in the presence of
00:11:10
someone like Arthur. He had a um legend
00:11:12
like status um and still does um but
00:11:15
yeah it was pretty cool. Oh,
00:11:16
>> so you got to meet him?
00:11:17
>> Yeah. Yep. When I was 14, I remember him
00:11:20
putting us on the track to do some 200
00:11:22
meter strides. And his his theory at the
00:11:24
time, as I as I recall, was that um he
00:11:27
can tell if someone's going to be great
00:11:29
just by the way they move over 200
00:11:31
meters. And so he put us out on the
00:11:32
track and we all ran a 200. And I
00:11:34
remember him saying to me afterwards,
00:11:35
"Oh, I think this boy's going to go all
00:11:36
right." So, so it was like pretty pretty
00:11:38
cool to hear something like that from
00:11:40
from a coach like him. So,
00:11:41
>> you got the seal of approval from
00:11:42
Arthur.
00:11:43
>> Yeah.
00:11:44
>> Unbelievable. Yeah.
00:11:45
>> Um I I I think he's such an underrated
00:11:48
New Zealander. I reckon if you got 100
00:11:49
Kiwis in a room, maybe 10, 15, 20 might
00:11:52
know who he is.
00:11:53
>> Yeah. He was revolutionary, you know, in
00:11:55
his time, just light years ahead anyone
00:11:57
else in the world. So yeah.
00:11:59
>> Um yeah, I've got I've got so many of
00:12:02
his books or um books relating to him
00:12:04
from like Gilmore or others um in my
00:12:07
library at home. How how much of his
00:12:09
principles do you use? He was huge on
00:12:11
heavy mileage, eh? like uh hundreds of
00:12:14
KS each week.
00:12:15
>> Yeah.
00:12:15
>> How much of how much of the Lydia
00:12:16
principles do you use now?
00:12:18
>> Well, when I when I started running, I
00:12:19
didn't have a coach. So, I used his
00:12:21
books as a as a guideline. So, I just
00:12:24
opened the book and you know, there was
00:12:25
the timetables in the back and I would
00:12:26
just follow them. Um and so and as I
00:12:29
developed as an athlete and and now as a
00:12:31
coach, the I think the principle that I
00:12:33
follow the most is consistency. Um and
00:12:35
that um nothing special can be done in
00:12:39
one day, but it's just built over a long
00:12:41
period of time. um building towards an
00:12:44
an event or um over a career. So yeah, I
00:12:47
think that's probably the founding
00:12:48
principle that I follow rather than
00:12:50
anything specific.
00:12:51
>> Did did you ever have a coach or did you
00:12:52
coach yourself through your entire
00:12:53
career?
00:12:54
>> Um I had I had a coach at university um
00:12:58
I went to university in the States, had
00:12:59
a coach there um and then moved to the
00:13:02
UK after that and had a had a coach
00:13:04
there and then moved back and had had
00:13:05
one when I was home for a few years.
00:13:07
>> But you you coached yourself for a lot
00:13:08
of your sort of elite career.
00:13:10
>> Yeah. Um it was it was a strange
00:13:12
situation because I was in high school,
00:13:14
had no coach, um ran pretty well. Um
00:13:17
went to the US, ended up um at the
00:13:19
University of Oklahoma and the coaching
00:13:21
environment there wasn't um wasn't
00:13:24
spectacular. So we there was an Irish
00:13:26
guy and myself and we just trained
00:13:29
together most of the time and we made
00:13:32
lots of mistakes. We just did our own
00:13:34
thing cuz we really didn't get a lot of
00:13:35
guidance. So we we made a lot of
00:13:37
mistakes, ran way too too much, way too
00:13:40
fast. Um, but I think those are the
00:13:43
foundations for my coaching career now
00:13:45
and like I know that those things are
00:13:47
not to be done if you want to be
00:13:48
successful because that it's going to
00:13:50
bury you. So, um, so what was hurting
00:13:53
hurting me then is actually helping me
00:13:55
now.
00:13:56
>> So, you was Yeah, there's parallels
00:13:58
between your story and Lydia like he was
00:14:00
sort of a guinea pig on himself before
00:14:01
he worked with, you know, Snell and
00:14:03
those guys.
00:14:04
>> Um, so why did you settle on the
00:14:06
marathon? Were you were you not quick
00:14:08
enough over the shorter distances?
00:14:10
>> Too old and too slow.
00:14:12
>> No, I had um I'd run I've been running
00:14:15
well on the track. Um and I'd run two
00:14:18
two world cross countries in 99 and
00:14:20
2000. Um and then in in 2000 they
00:14:24
announced that the World Cross was going
00:14:26
to be in um back in um Dublin the
00:14:29
following year and it was undoubtedly
00:14:30
going to be muddy and I had no interest
00:14:32
in running in the mud. Um and and we
00:14:34
ended up being at London Marathon
00:14:36
standing on the bridge um watching a
00:14:38
friend of ours Robbie Johnson who's um
00:14:39
from Deneden and he was running the
00:14:42
marathon at the time and we were
00:14:43
standing on the Tower Bridge and the
00:14:45
league group came past and the noise was
00:14:46
incredible and then his group came past
00:14:48
and the noise was amazing and I'm like
00:14:50
this is what I'm doing next year. I
00:14:51
don't I don't want to do world cross
00:14:52
again. I want to do this. Um so that
00:14:55
kind of started my marathon career.
00:14:56
>> Can you remember your first marathon?
00:14:58
>> Yep. It was it was the next year 2001 in
00:15:01
London. Um and yeah, epic day um in the
00:15:05
in a group with a lot of the top British
00:15:07
athletes and a few other randoms and um
00:15:10
yeah, we just had a had an amazing day.
00:15:12
>> What time?
00:15:13
>> Uh 216.
00:15:15
Yeah.
00:15:16
>> And and your your personal best in your
00:15:17
marathon running career 213.
00:15:19
>> Yeah. So that so after London um I went
00:15:22
away to train and ended up running um
00:15:25
Chicago in October of the same year. So
00:15:27
and ran 213 there. Um, and to put that
00:15:30
in perspective for anyone that's
00:15:31
listening to this or watching this that
00:15:32
isn't big on running, um, just recently
00:15:34
the New York Marathon's been on and
00:15:36
Elliot Kabigi, the greatest marathon
00:15:37
runner of all time, he ran in between
00:15:39
those two times.
00:15:40
>> Yeah.
00:15:40
>> I think 214, 215 or something.
00:15:42
>> And I think
00:15:42
>> it's quick.
00:15:43
>> It is quick. Um, and I think it's I mean
00:15:47
there's a big debate around the shoes
00:15:48
and um, the shoe technology has changed
00:15:51
quite a lot since then. Um, and more so
00:15:53
in the last kind of four or five years
00:15:55
than in the 20 years prior to that. But
00:15:58
um, yeah. So, I think there'd be um a
00:16:00
big shift if I got to an opportunity to
00:16:03
run the new shoes now. So,
00:16:04
>> really, even at that level?
00:16:06
>> Yeah, I think so. I think it'd be worth
00:16:07
at least two or three minutes. Um
00:16:09
>> two or three minutes.
00:16:10
>> Yeah.
00:16:10
>> [ __ ] Cuz you could understand like um a
00:16:12
pair of like Nike Vapor Flows, which
00:16:14
feel amazing, by the way. Yeah. If
00:16:16
you're a 4-hour marathon runner, you can
00:16:17
understand like shaving 5 minutes off.
00:16:19
But yeah, at the um the pointy end like
00:16:21
where you were, I wouldn't have thought
00:16:22
they'd make that much of a difference.
00:16:23
Yeah, they make um quite a big
00:16:24
difference um not only on race day but
00:16:27
in in the training um that you can get
00:16:29
prior to the event. So do a lot of work
00:16:31
um in shoes that actually protecting you
00:16:33
rather than just getting beat up from
00:16:35
the shoes that we were wearing at the
00:16:36
time. So yeah, no definitely and on race
00:16:39
day that that onset of fatigue um just
00:16:41
happens later and later as you get into
00:16:43
the marathon. So and if you've got shoes
00:16:44
that are protecting you from that onset
00:16:46
then um yeah.
00:16:48
>> Yeah.
00:16:49
What what are your thoughts on all the
00:16:51
um the the advancements in shoes and
00:16:53
everything else? It sounds like you're
00:16:54
all for it.
00:16:55
>> That's great. It's just it's just
00:16:56
technology just moving moving on. You
00:16:58
know, our shoes were better than Peter
00:17:00
Snell had. So, you know, you can't you
00:17:02
can't um sit here and complain about
00:17:04
today's technology. Yeah.
00:17:06
>> Yeah. And didn't the guys from Nike um
00:17:08
meet with Lydia and then come up with
00:17:10
the shoes in a waffle maker?
00:17:12
>> Isn't that the legend?
00:17:13
>> Yeah. Yeah, I'm not sure exactly how it
00:17:14
how that unfolded, but yeah, it was Bill
00:17:16
Bowman who came up with the waffle
00:17:18
design for the Nike shoe. Yeah, coach at
00:17:20
University of Oregon.
00:17:21
>> Can you remember the first time you wore
00:17:22
the black singlet?
00:17:24
>> Uh, yeah, it would have been um what
00:17:28
would it have been? World Student Games
00:17:30
in 1997 um in Sicily. Yeah.
00:17:33
>> How's that?
00:17:34
>> Uh we all got sick. Um everyone everyone
00:17:38
in the village got sick. Um but it was a
00:17:40
cool experience and it was amazing to to
00:17:42
pull on the black singlet and represent
00:17:44
the country and um I think I finished
00:17:46
fifth or sixth in the 10,000 m on the
00:17:48
track. So
00:17:49
>> yeah, pretty pretty cool experience.
00:17:52
>> Um so 1999 to 2001 um you were
00:17:55
Londonbased
00:17:56
>> and working as an assistant coach for a
00:17:59
legendary coach called Tim McDonald.
00:18:01
>> Yep, that's right. Um yeah, so I kind of
00:18:03
fell into that job. I' I'd been to
00:18:05
university in the States and I was
00:18:07
getting ready to leave and I was talking
00:18:10
to my dad and um he was like, "Oh, do
00:18:12
you what are you going to do?" And I
00:18:13
said, "Oh, maybe I'll just come home and
00:18:15
he's like, "Oh, wouldn't you go to
00:18:16
Australia or to the UK and just kind of
00:18:18
travel some more?" And I was like, "Oh,
00:18:19
[ __ ] Yeah, maybe I will." So, um had a
00:18:22
friend who was living in London. So, I
00:18:23
contacted him and he's like, "Yeah, come
00:18:24
over." So, booked some tickets and then
00:18:26
went to London um trying to get a job
00:18:28
with London Marathon actually as an
00:18:30
event in event organizing. Um, and I met
00:18:33
with um a guy called Alan Story who was
00:18:35
the event director and he he kind of
00:18:37
said, "Ah, I don't have um any jobs
00:18:40
available, but my friend Kim has um this
00:18:42
athlete management company um and he's
00:18:45
looking for someone maybe I'll you know,
00:18:47
put you in contact." And so I met with
00:18:48
Kim and um spent the next maybe four
00:18:51
years working for him um just in athlete
00:18:54
management and did a lot of the donkey
00:18:56
work um with equipment and shoes and
00:18:59
driving people to the airport and and
00:19:01
you know picking people up here and
00:19:02
there and driving around and but it was
00:19:03
a cool job and um I think that was one
00:19:06
of the foundations to my coaching um is
00:19:09
that I would take all the athletes to
00:19:11
the track and they were the best African
00:19:13
athletes in the world. you know, record
00:19:15
holders, um, Olympic champions, world
00:19:17
champions, take them to the track,
00:19:19
administer the workout that Kim had set
00:19:20
for them, report back to Kim on how they
00:19:23
gone and who looked great and who was
00:19:24
struggling and all those kind of things.
00:19:26
And he would use that information to
00:19:28
enter, um, athletes into big races. And
00:19:31
so, um, just that coach's eye standing
00:19:34
on the sideline and then reporting back
00:19:36
to him and, you know, it just gives you
00:19:37
that, um, that eye for what what
00:19:40
actually looks good on the track and,
00:19:41
um, how people are moving and who's
00:19:43
going well.
00:19:44
>> Was it from that rubbing shoulders with
00:19:46
Kenyans that you ended up doing a
00:19:48
training block in Kenya?
00:19:49
>> Yeah. Yeah, it was. Yeah. So, the whole
00:19:51
time I worked there, they the Kenyan
00:19:53
guys were always trying to get me to
00:19:54
come out to Kenya and train and um, I
00:19:56
just never had the opportunity or the
00:19:58
money. I was was flat broke. Um and then
00:20:00
so I got the opportunity in 2000 to go
00:20:04
out there and um spent 8 weeks out there
00:20:08
and then went back the following year
00:20:09
and did another block. So
00:20:11
>> whereabouts eaten
00:20:12
>> um the first the first time I went I
00:20:14
stayed in a place called Nuru which is
00:20:16
halfway between um Alderette and
00:20:18
Nairobi. Um and then we had a training
00:20:21
camp in a place called Nauru which is
00:20:23
really close and that wasn't so great.
00:20:25
Didn't really enjoy it there. went up to
00:20:27
um Capagat which is on the other side of
00:20:29
the forest from Aen. Um so when I was
00:20:31
there, Aen was just a really small rural
00:20:33
town with nothing really going on.
00:20:35
Everything everyone was in Capagat on
00:20:37
the other side of the forest. Really
00:20:38
undeveloped, lots of kind of wooden
00:20:40
shacks um people living in tin huts um
00:20:42
and just fields and like just runners
00:20:45
everywhere. It was incredible um place
00:20:46
to be at the time. Um yeah, so amazing
00:20:50
experience to be there.
00:20:53
>> I think it's changed quite a lot.
00:20:55
>> Yeah. what what what you're explaining
00:20:57
sounds like quite a miserable bleak
00:20:59
existence. Did you enjoy it at the time
00:21:00
or is it like type two fun where you
00:21:02
look back on it and go
00:21:03
>> Yeah, I think it was it was definitely a
00:21:05
graft cuz the training was
00:21:06
extraordinarily hard. Um
00:21:07
>> what because of the altitude or the
00:21:09
speed?
00:21:10
>> So the the camp was at about 10,000 ft.
00:21:13
Um and then the runs were in the forest
00:21:16
and you could go right up to the
00:21:17
escarment which is like the edge of the
00:21:19
rift valley. So the rift valley is at
00:21:21
that um place is kind of shaped like a
00:21:24
um big skateboard bowl. So you know big
00:21:27
down up the other side you can stand on
00:21:28
the edge of the escarment and look
00:21:29
across and see the other side and then
00:21:31
just you know 4,000 ft below you is the
00:21:34
bottom of the valley. It's incredible.
00:21:36
And so we'd run up to there and run
00:21:38
along the top of the escarment and back
00:21:39
down to the camp. And you know those
00:21:40
were kind of three-hour runs um at
00:21:43
really high altitude and they weren't
00:21:45
slow. So, and if and if the first time I
00:21:47
went there, um I was warned, you know,
00:21:50
if you go with the group um and you
00:21:52
don't keep up, you'll get lost and no
00:21:54
one is waiting for you and no one's
00:21:55
coming back for you. So, you have to
00:21:56
either keep up or you're going to get
00:21:58
lost. And so, it was like survival of
00:21:59
the fittest basically from day one. So,
00:22:01
it was pretty brutal.
00:22:02
>> And what sort of pace are they doing?
00:22:04
>> Uh that was pre GPS, so I don't know.
00:22:06
>> Oh,
00:22:07
>> yeah. It was probably 4-minute Ks,
00:22:09
right?
00:22:09
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:10
>> Just as a standard long
00:22:12
>> Yeah.
00:22:13
>> Oh my god.
00:22:13
>> Up at altitude. At altitude. Yeah.
00:22:15
>> Yeah. What does altitude do to you?
00:22:17
>> Um with less oxygen in the air, so your
00:22:20
muscles aren't getting supplied with the
00:22:22
oxygen. So from a physiological
00:22:23
standpoint, your body is um compensating
00:22:26
by that to produce more red blood cells
00:22:29
um to be able to cope with the the the
00:22:32
lack of oxygen. So um just and really
00:22:35
fatiguing. It's hard to recover once you
00:22:37
um
00:22:38
>> go really hard and get tired.
00:22:40
>> Yeah.
00:22:41
Did you did you see any drugs or
00:22:43
anything then or was that like sort of
00:22:44
pre high performance drugs?
00:22:46
>> I think I think it was pre-drugs. I
00:22:47
never I never saw any and and I've had
00:22:50
this question a lot over the years
00:22:51
because I worked really closely with a a
00:22:53
large group of Kenyan athletes and a lot
00:22:55
of the top Americans and and British
00:22:57
runners and um I was in really close
00:23:00
contact. I was in their houses all the
00:23:01
time. I was taking them here and there.
00:23:03
Um and for the most part the Africans
00:23:05
were really primitive. I don't mean that
00:23:07
in a bad way, but primitive in a in a
00:23:09
sense that they were really innocent.
00:23:12
Um, and I think it was really pre-drugs
00:23:15
in that in that time. I think it's got
00:23:17
they got a real problem over there now.
00:23:19
And I think um, you know, something
00:23:21
really needs to be done um, with the
00:23:22
Kenyan situation. Maybe not just Kenya
00:23:25
too. Probably some other countries
00:23:26
involved there.
00:23:27
>> Yeah. H, if it ever comes out that Kip
00:23:29
Chigi is a a dirty a dirty runner, I'll
00:23:32
be devastated. He's like my Lance
00:23:34
Armstrong. You know, a lot of people
00:23:35
were wearing the yellow Livestrong bands
00:23:37
right up until the Oprah interview.
00:23:39
That's like me with Kip Chokei. Why do
00:23:40
you think it is? Is it just that the
00:23:41
stakes are so high?
00:23:43
>> I mean, for example, like your your 213
00:23:46
still stacks up as one of the great New
00:23:47
Zealand marathon running times. If
00:23:49
you're a 213 Kenyon, you're
00:23:51
>> you're a nobody.
00:23:52
>> Yeah.
00:23:53
>> You're just a a pack runner, aren't you?
00:23:54
>> Yeah. You're a nobody. You're not
00:23:56
getting you're not even getting a start
00:23:57
in a big city marathon. So, um yeah, I
00:24:00
think it's just a money thing for them.
00:24:01
It's a way for them to get out of
00:24:03
poverty and help their, you know, feed
00:24:05
their family and,
00:24:06
>> um, yeah, just make something of
00:24:08
themsel. Um, and
00:24:10
>> I think the there's some people involved
00:24:13
in the sport who are praying on that.
00:24:15
Um, and just taking advantage. Yeah.
00:24:18
>> So, was it after that that training
00:24:20
block or another one that you went to
00:24:21
the the comm games? So that was um so I
00:24:25
went to the training block um in 2002
00:24:28
right before the comm games and um yeah
00:24:30
I I was training really well
00:24:32
>> um for that and ended up getting injured
00:24:35
um on my return to London. And I was I
00:24:37
had a bit of a tight kind of back and
00:24:39
hip um went out for a run one day and I
00:24:42
was running down interestingly down
00:24:43
Priory Lane um which is going into
00:24:46
Richmond Park from the um from the north
00:24:48
side I think it is and um
00:24:51
>> a car pulled out of a driveway and I was
00:24:52
had to sidestep it to avoid being run
00:24:54
over and just didn't hit me but I just
00:24:57
tweaked my back in the process and I
00:24:59
limped home was probably a good hour
00:25:01
limping home and then yeah was never
00:25:03
right after that.
00:25:04
>> So you made it to the Commonwealth
00:25:05
Games.
00:25:06
>> Yeah. And you you had a DNF which is a
00:25:08
did not finish.
00:25:09
>> Um
00:25:10
>> yeah up until that point though what are
00:25:12
the Commonworth games like what what an
00:25:14
amazing experience kid from Timaru.
00:25:15
>> Yeah I know it was pretty incredible. Um
00:25:17
kind of a life a life dream really to
00:25:19
make a global championship like that.
00:25:20
>> Yeah. Drop some names. Who else was in
00:25:22
the New Zealand team for those games.
00:25:23
>> Um so it was Val um Val Adams's first um
00:25:27
com games team. So um yeah I remember
00:25:30
her being there for the first time.
00:25:31
Beatress Val Mina was in the team. Um I
00:25:34
think she just she won 97 I think the
00:25:38
world title but yeah she was still
00:25:39
throwing really well. Um from a marathon
00:25:41
perspective was Phil Costley was on the
00:25:43
team with me and um and Jonathan Wyatt.
00:25:47
Um and so the three of us had all run
00:25:49
really similar times um to qualify for
00:25:51
that championships and we all knew that
00:25:53
the third place medal was up for grabs.
00:25:55
Um, and there were two really good
00:25:57
African runners and we knew that they
00:25:59
would probably go first and second, but
00:26:00
the third place was really un unclear.
00:26:03
And so we were, you know, we were going
00:26:06
into the games thinking one of us here
00:26:08
has has a day, we can sneak a medal. Um,
00:26:11
and it ended up being Australian Andrew
00:26:13
Leby who got third. And so he when he
00:26:15
qualified um, he qualified in Chicago a
00:26:18
minute and a half behind me. And so, you
00:26:20
know, to not to see him win a medal and
00:26:23
I'd run faster than him and I knew I was
00:26:24
in great shape prior to the
00:26:26
championships was was pretty hard. And I
00:26:28
remember Jonathan Wyatt um coming across
00:26:31
the finish line and he was absolutely
00:26:34
wrecked. Um and I think he was in about
00:26:35
fifth or sixth place. He kind of said to
00:26:38
me, "Oh, who won?" And I told him it was
00:26:40
Andrew. And uh he just broke down in
00:26:42
tears and just devastated, you I was
00:26:43
like, it could have been his medal, you
00:26:45
know, like it was just one of those days
00:26:46
where it was just wide open and um just
00:26:48
someone just had to have their their
00:26:49
best run ever to to get a medal.
00:26:52
>> When when did you pull out?
00:26:54
>> Um I think at about 22 or 23 km. Yeah. I
00:26:57
was just in so much pain um that I just
00:27:00
couldn't run anymore. Yeah. I was still
00:27:01
in the front group, but I just I just
00:27:03
knew it wasn't going to work. So
00:27:04
>> yeah.
00:27:05
>> Yeah. How do you how do you reflect on
00:27:06
that now?
00:27:08
>> Uh I've I've long come to peace with
00:27:10
that. Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:11
>> Was it hard at the time?
00:27:12
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely, you know,
00:27:14
definitely hard.
00:27:15
>> I um yeah, I came back to New Zealand
00:27:17
and, you know, was adamant that I was
00:27:18
going to get fit in return, but never
00:27:20
did.
00:27:22
>> Yeah. So, after that, you um you you the
00:27:24
next big goal was the Beijing Olympics.
00:27:26
>> Yeah. So, yeah. So, I' I'd been running
00:27:29
pretty well. Um I'd recovered from that
00:27:31
injury. It took like 18 months in a
00:27:33
surgery um to come right and then still
00:27:36
dealing with imbalances and still pain
00:27:37
and discomfort, but um I could run. um
00:27:41
decided I'd have a crack at trying to
00:27:43
qualify for Beijing. And um yeah, and I
00:27:46
said to my brother-in-law at the time,
00:27:47
if I don't, I'll do Iron Man with you
00:27:49
the following year. So um yeah, ended up
00:27:51
doing Iron Man.
00:27:53
>> Yeah. How do you how do you deal with um
00:27:55
these sort of disappointments? I suppose
00:27:57
it's part of part of being an athlete,
00:27:59
isn't it? The highs and the lows.
00:28:00
>> It is. Yeah. And I'm pretty uh
00:28:01
philosophical like that. I don't I I
00:28:03
tendwell No, I don't dwell. I tend not I
00:28:05
I try not to let stuff get to me. um and
00:28:09
um just quite pragmatic about it and
00:28:11
it's like it wasn't meant to be and it's
00:28:13
not happening so I gave it my best shot
00:28:14
and that's all you can ask. Yeah.
00:28:16
>> Yeah. But so so the Commonwealth Games
00:28:18
you you're over there you surrounded by
00:28:19
these athletes and you had a a DNA for
00:28:22
not making it Beijing. Like how long is
00:28:23
it before you're able to park it and
00:28:25
move on?
00:28:27
>> Uh I think I drank a few beers. Um I
00:28:30
think that helped probably more than she
00:28:33
to be honest. But but is it just one day
00:28:35
of drinking beers or is it like a period
00:28:36
of 6 months where
00:28:38
>> uh no I think we the remainder of the
00:28:40
games was a bit of a bender and then um
00:28:42
yeah got it got out of there and came
00:28:44
home and um yeah mom and dad looked
00:28:46
after me and helped me kind of get right
00:28:48
and then I actually moved up to
00:28:50
Oakuckland um and yeah kind of set about
00:28:54
trying to kind of sort myself out and
00:28:56
get this injury sorted. So it didn't
00:28:58
take too long.
00:28:59
>> How can how can other people do that?
00:29:01
Like is is this just something in your
00:29:03
DNA? Like I I mean like some serious
00:29:06
disappointment for some people it can be
00:29:08
just crushing and something they never
00:29:09
recover from. But if people could be
00:29:11
more like Craig Kirkwood and just be
00:29:12
able to you know draw a line in the sand
00:29:15
maybe just lack emotion. I don't know.
00:29:16
Not sure.
00:29:18
>> But I just don't honestly don't I just
00:29:20
I'm quite pragmatic about those kind of
00:29:21
things and and same with my athletes and
00:29:23
if you know if they don't um
00:29:26
>> achieve what they want to achieve I feel
00:29:27
really sad for them. But from my point
00:29:30
of view, I I can park it because I know
00:29:33
that, you know, what they've done and
00:29:35
and how the with the things that they've
00:29:37
got to get there, um, you know, they've
00:29:39
done all the right stuff and if if it
00:29:40
doesn't happen on the day, and then it's
00:29:42
just the way it's supposed to be.
00:29:44
>> Yes. Like control the controllables, I
00:29:47
think the saying is.
00:29:48
>> Um, what are the biggest lessons you
00:29:49
learned about yourself from running
00:29:51
marathons?
00:29:53
>> Uh, I think it, um, just to be patient
00:29:56
and have a plan. Um, and if you ever go
00:30:00
to if you ever go to the front runner in
00:30:02
Christ Church, um, the store there,
00:30:04
Oscar, is put on the wall a quote that I
00:30:06
said to him one day, he rang me and
00:30:08
asked him about it for his first
00:30:09
marathon and it was he's like, "Oh, have
00:30:10
you got any advice?" And I said, "Oh,
00:30:12
the first time you want to make a move,
00:30:13
don't. The second time you want to make
00:30:15
a move, don't. The third time you won't
00:30:16
be able to." Um, and so he put that on
00:30:18
his wall. And I think that's a really
00:30:20
key thing is that just just have a plan
00:30:21
and just stick to it and make sure you
00:30:23
know what you're doing and um
00:30:25
>> and yeah be com be comfortable in that.
00:30:28
>> Actually Oscar who you're talking about
00:30:30
great runner himself um fantastic for
00:30:33
the sport. He's won the crush marathon a
00:30:34
number of times. Runs an amazing shop
00:30:36
down there. Um for the the Instagram
00:30:38
segment of this podcast he sent through
00:30:40
a question since you brought him up.
00:30:42
We'll get to it now.
00:30:42
>> Let's talk about him.
00:30:43
>> Uh question for Craig. How far away can
00:30:45
you smell an athletes [ __ ]
00:30:48
I know what he's I know he's referring
00:30:49
to because he's this u he's made the
00:30:51
brave move and had a coach switch. Um
00:30:53
and he's actually now coached by Phil
00:30:54
Costley who I went to the com games
00:30:56
with. Um and Phil has been sniffing out
00:30:59
his [ __ ] cuz Oscar's full of it. So
00:31:02
um
00:31:02
>> is he in what way?
00:31:03
>> Uh he just talks a lot. Don't you Oscar?
00:31:07
You know. Um
00:31:09
so
00:31:11
how far away? I I I think I have a
00:31:13
pretty good ability to to sniff out that
00:31:15
stuff when someone's just kind of
00:31:17
talking nonsense.
00:31:17
>> What What do you What sort of nonsense?
00:31:19
What sort of [ __ ] do you mean?
00:31:21
>> Like that they gave it everything and
00:31:22
you know they didn't or
00:31:24
>> Yeah. Or they just um they're just
00:31:26
overinflating themsel or um what they're
00:31:30
trying to achieve or what they've done
00:31:31
or just things like that. Yeah. Just you
00:31:33
can you just tell. Yeah.
00:31:35
>> Mhm. Um yes. After after the
00:31:38
disappointment of not making the the
00:31:40
Olympics, um that's when you pivot to
00:31:42
triathlon.
00:31:42
>> Yeah.
00:31:43
>> Yeah. Why? Why? Well, it's like you went
00:31:45
for marathon and looked for something
00:31:46
harder.
00:31:46
>> I know. Yeah. Self punishment.
00:31:49
I
00:31:50
>> So, you went straight for Iron Man.
00:31:52
>> Yeah, I I I did. I went straight into
00:31:54
the Iron Man. So, I I decided that I was
00:31:57
going to um do Iron Man with my
00:31:58
brother-in-law. And um the first event I
00:32:01
did was a swim here in Oakuckland. And
00:32:02
um that was my first ever nonrunn event
00:32:05
that I participated in. So, and that
00:32:07
went pretty well. Um, and I actually did
00:32:10
a half iron man in Rooua in the leadup
00:32:13
to Iron Man New Zealand. And that was my
00:32:15
first triathlon. Um, I think I finished
00:32:17
fourth uh overall and then went to Iron
00:32:20
Man New Zealand um in March of 09.
00:32:24
>> And where did you finish in that one?
00:32:25
>> 12th.
00:32:26
>> Wow.
00:32:26
>> Yeah. So, um I was racing as an age
00:32:29
grouper. Excuse me. And um finished 12th
00:32:32
overall. Yeah. So, it was
00:32:33
>> incredible. And then that that gave you
00:32:35
um qual qualification into Kona.
00:32:38
>> Yep.
00:32:39
>> Um yeah. What what's Kona like?
00:32:41
>> Hot.
00:32:41
>> Yeah.
00:32:42
>> I've been there as a visitor, not during
00:32:44
um the Iron Man season. Um but there's
00:32:46
shops there and you can you I can only
00:32:48
imagine what it's like when the um Iron
00:32:50
Man's in town.
00:32:51
>> Yeah. It's um it's manic. There's um
00:32:54
>> yeah, so now there's more. But there
00:32:56
when I went there was 2,000
00:32:58
>> triathletes who are racing and then a
00:32:59
bunch of their family and stuff in town.
00:33:01
It's quite a small little town. So, um,
00:33:03
it gets overrun and really busy and but
00:33:06
it's got a really cool vibe. Um, and
00:33:08
it's amazing place for a world
00:33:10
championship, um, of the sport. So,
00:33:12
yeah, it was it was pretty awesome to go
00:33:14
and be involved in that and I ended up
00:33:16
going three times. So, um, never I never
00:33:19
actually raced really well there. I just
00:33:20
got smashed by the heat every time.
00:33:22
>> What What was your best finish?
00:33:26
>> I don't know.
00:33:27
>> Like top 20?
00:33:28
>> No. No. Nowhere near. No. In the age
00:33:30
group. Um maybe top 60 or something like
00:33:34
that. Yeah.
00:33:34
>> Oh my god, it's that competitive.
00:33:36
>> Yeah, super competitive. Yeah.
00:33:37
>> Unreal. And what sort of times were you
00:33:38
doing? So off, so for anyone that
00:33:39
doesn't know, Iron Man, it's like a 4K
00:33:41
swim.
00:33:42
>> Y
00:33:43
180 bike and then a marathon.
00:33:44
>> Yeah. What sort of time were you doing
00:33:46
for the marathon after the other two
00:33:47
disciplines?
00:33:48
>> Um so my best time was 256 and that was
00:33:51
in my first Iron Man in Tapo, but
00:33:53
normally I was running around 305 to
00:33:55
310.
00:33:56
>> It's not bad.
00:33:57
>> It's not bad after all that. Um, if you
00:34:00
could jump back into your 20-year-old
00:34:01
body with your current coaching brain,
00:34:04
like what would you do differently?
00:34:05
>> Oh [ __ ] that's a big question. Um, I'd
00:34:09
be way more patient with myself. Yeah.
00:34:11
Um,
00:34:12
>> yeah. And I think way more structured,
00:34:15
way more uh way more disciplined in the
00:34:17
way that I approached racing and what
00:34:19
race I was going to do.
00:34:20
>> Yeah.
00:34:21
>> Yeah.
00:34:22
>> It's frustrating. There's that saying,
00:34:23
youth is wasted on the young.
00:34:25
>> I know. I know. But is this something
00:34:27
you try and drum into your athletes?
00:34:29
Like be patient.
00:34:30
>> Yeah. Well, I try and guide them the
00:34:32
best I can um with the mistakes that
00:34:35
I've made um and what I think is going
00:34:37
to be best for them in in their
00:34:38
development um which I always think is
00:34:41
key. Like
00:34:42
>> you know they might be great today but
00:34:44
you know we want them in the sport for
00:34:45
ages and want them to kind of fall in
00:34:48
love with it and be there forever.
00:34:49
>> Yeah.
00:34:50
>> Yeah.
00:34:50
>> So 2013 that's when you um became a
00:34:52
full-time coach.
00:34:53
>> Yep. after you got made redundant from a
00:34:56
a job. What were you doing? What line of
00:34:58
work were you?
00:34:58
>> I had a um a sales job um kind of golden
00:35:02
handcuffs really. I was um yeah being
00:35:04
paid okay and um I really wasn't happy
00:35:06
in the job. Um didn't didn't enjoy the
00:35:09
role. The people I was working with were
00:35:12
great but not really my people. Um and
00:35:15
yeah went through a redundancy process
00:35:18
which wasn't handled very well from
00:35:20
their perspective. So it enabled me just
00:35:22
to um have some breathing room once I
00:35:24
set up coaching and um yeah it was a bit
00:35:26
of a shock when first got made redundant
00:35:28
and then um just yeah took a little bit
00:35:31
of time and decided that I was going to
00:35:33
give coaching a decent crack and see
00:35:35
where it see where it led. So, coaching
00:35:37
at that point, was it like a like a side
00:35:38
hustle, like a
00:35:40
>> Yeah, I had maybe two or three people
00:35:42
who I I was helping quite informally and
00:35:44
then um yeah, just I don't know and I
00:35:47
really enjoyed it and I was something
00:35:49
that I felt I could be good at and I',
00:35:52
you know, given the opportunity then
00:35:53
maybe I could um give it a decent crack
00:35:55
and um yeah, all just kind of fell into
00:35:57
place and the rest is history.
00:35:59
>> It's a terrifying pivot though, isn't
00:36:01
it? going from working for working for
00:36:04
the man to like doing your own thing,
00:36:06
especially in something as niche
00:36:08
>> as coaching.
00:36:09
>> Yeah, it's um yeah, like I said, I was I
00:36:11
was I was kind of lucky in the way that
00:36:14
the redundancy unfolded and it enabled
00:36:16
me to um have some breathing room and I
00:36:19
had kind of a year to really get it set
00:36:22
up. If if everything went to plan, I'd
00:36:24
be okay. And then at that point, if it
00:36:26
wasn't working out and it wasn't
00:36:27
financially viable, then I'd have to
00:36:29
look for something else. But um yeah, it
00:36:31
all fell into place.
00:36:32
>> What your What did your wife say?
00:36:34
>> She was actually really good. She was
00:36:36
probably the level head in the
00:36:37
situation. Yeah. Just making sure that
00:36:39
I, you know, was happy with the decision
00:36:42
I was going to make and um and yeah,
00:36:45
reassuring that it would all fall into
00:36:46
place and Yeah.
00:36:47
>> Yeah. So that was 12 12 years ago. Was
00:36:50
it called CK Coaching from the
00:36:52
beginning?
00:36:52
>> Yeah, it was. Yeah.
00:36:53
>> Yeah. Yeah. I one of the guys I worked
00:36:55
with in the other company, he he he said
00:36:58
it to me one day and I never forgot it.
00:36:59
And he said, "If you're going to start a
00:37:00
business, just call it what it is
00:37:02
>> and and just be really make it really
00:37:05
clear and simple what it is." And then
00:37:07
so that was kind of the first one. And
00:37:08
then I was chucking around some names
00:37:10
for the coaching business and someone
00:37:11
said, "No, you just need to use your
00:37:13
name cuz that's people will recognize
00:37:14
that and identify with it and know what
00:37:16
it means rather than some random kind of
00:37:18
coaching name." So yeah, just stuck with
00:37:20
it.
00:37:21
>> No legal issues from Kelvin Klein. No,
00:37:24
no. It's been joked about a lot, but the
00:37:26
logo is very different. So,
00:37:27
>> and and who who like who's your who's
00:37:29
your first clients or your first
00:37:30
official
00:37:32
um customers that you're training?
00:37:33
>> Yeah. So, I just had some uh local um
00:37:36
runners who were in Taranga and um and
00:37:39
they were Yeah. I just put a post up on
00:37:41
a local group and just said, "Hey, look,
00:37:43
I'm going to start some doing some
00:37:44
coaching. If anyone wants some help,
00:37:45
then you know, let me know." And um a
00:37:48
few people contacted me and um just went
00:37:50
from there. has grew from ones and twos
00:37:51
to tens and 20s and yeah.
00:37:54
>> How many people have you got now?
00:37:55
>> About 45 I think on book on the books.
00:37:57
Yeah.
00:37:58
>> [ __ ] There's a lot more than that
00:37:59
wearing the the singlets at events.
00:38:02
>> They're everywhere.
00:38:04
>> Infiltrated.
00:38:05
>> Um
00:38:07
what's uh what's the what's the goal you
00:38:09
still have for yourself as a coach? I
00:38:11
like we're going to get into the
00:38:12
athletes that that the high performance
00:38:13
athletes that you're working with and
00:38:15
you've done so much. Um but is there one
00:38:17
thing that you're yet to achieve?
00:38:18
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, when I set out coaching,
00:38:20
um, one of my goals was to get someone
00:38:23
to the Olympics, um, from from a
00:38:26
development point of view. So, not not
00:38:27
just kind of inherit them as a really
00:38:28
good athlete and then, you know, be at
00:38:30
the Olympics, but take them from a
00:38:31
teenager to the Olympics. Um, and so
00:38:34
I've done that with both, um, Sam and
00:38:36
Hayden. Um,
00:38:39
but my next goal now is to, um, take a
00:38:42
female from that same spot to the
00:38:44
Olympics. So, um, and then hopefully win
00:38:46
a medal. That's always, um, bonus. Yeah.
00:38:49
Yeah.
00:38:51
>> And in terms of um non high performing
00:38:54
athletes, what's what's the best result
00:38:56
you've had? Like uh someone going from
00:38:57
say 4 and a half hour marathon to a
00:39:00
three or
00:39:00
>> Yeah, I've got loads of those stories
00:39:02
and and I've always said that I I enjoy
00:39:05
coaching I we'll call them the fun
00:39:07
runner. Um
00:39:08
>> weekend warriors.
00:39:08
>> Yeah, weekend warriors. Just I enjoy
00:39:10
coaching them as just as much as I do
00:39:12
someone at a high performance level. Um
00:39:15
because for me it's just helping them be
00:39:17
a better version of themselves and
00:39:18
achieving what they want to achieve
00:39:19
rather than um you know winning a medal
00:39:22
Olympics which is equally as cool but um
00:39:25
yeah it still has the same value for me
00:39:28
and and these these athletes like I'm
00:39:31
imagining um a Hayden Wild or a Sam
00:39:33
Tanner. Um I'm imagining like the the
00:39:35
the night before a final or whatever at
00:39:37
the Olympics or Commonworth games you're
00:39:38
you're texting them or you're catching
00:39:40
up with them with a little message. the
00:39:41
um the weekend warriors like do you do
00:39:43
the same the same thing?
00:39:45
>> Yeah, try tried to keep uh keep it the
00:39:46
same. Treat everyone as equals. Um uh
00:39:50
you know, everyone everyone needs the
00:39:52
same level of attention. Um and some
00:39:55
people demand a bit more, but that's all
00:39:56
right. It's just the way they are.
00:39:59
>> That's cute. E like Yeah. Imagine
00:40:01
getting a text from you. Remember,
00:40:02
you've done the work. Trust the
00:40:03
training.
00:40:04
>> Yeah.
00:40:05
>> That's cool. Yeah.
00:40:06
>> All right. Um I Yeah. So, who are you
00:40:08
working with now? Drop some names. Um,
00:40:11
>> who are your priorities? Oh,
00:40:13
>> they're all priorities. Um, the I guess
00:40:16
I don't know if we start at high
00:40:17
performance levels. Um, Sam Tanner, um,
00:40:20
who's, um, two-time Olympic 1500 meter,
00:40:23
uh, runner. um young Sam Ruth who's um
00:40:27
coming through the ranks. He's the world
00:40:29
record holder for um for his age group
00:40:33
for 1500 mile and 3,000 mters and first
00:40:36
first kid at 15 to run a sub4 in a mile
00:40:39
and um
00:40:40
>> it's incredible. Oh,
00:40:40
>> it's unbelievable. Um and then a couple
00:40:44
of young triathletes who I coach who won
00:40:46
was seventh at world junior champs this
00:40:48
year. Um and um that's Finley Oliver and
00:40:52
then Haley Cornwall who finished 11th at
00:40:55
in the females um junior champs. So
00:40:58
>> yeah, so that those probably the the
00:41:00
four the moment I can you know pick off
00:41:02
the top of my head.
00:41:03
>> Yeah. All right. Well, let's um focus on
00:41:05
Sam Tanner for a little bit.
00:41:06
>> Sure.
00:41:07
>> So I spoke to him yesterday. Um he said
00:41:10
uh he said you you're quite quite good
00:41:12
with the puns and the dad jokes.
00:41:13
>> Oh yeah. Love the dad jokes.
00:41:15
>> The reference not gave me was um rope
00:41:17
joke. Oh.
00:41:20
That's just a dumb joke that uh I I tell
00:41:23
sometimes.
00:41:24
>> What is that?
00:41:26
>> H I don't know if I want to go into
00:41:29
It's not bad. It's just lame. Um but
00:41:31
I've always joked about it in a in a in
00:41:33
a in an awkward moment. It's a a joke
00:41:36
I'll just pull out and just say when
00:41:38
things are a bit awkward, everyone will
00:41:39
drone and we'll carry on.
00:41:40
>> Oh, let's hear it. We're in too deep.
00:41:44
>> No, I don't think we need to. We'll move
00:41:46
on.
00:41:46
>> Oh my god. the intrigue there. Um,
00:41:51
something else that he he he said is um
00:41:53
you're you're a renowned tight ass.
00:41:55
>> Oh, really? Did he? That's nice of him.
00:41:58
>> And and he said you you try and throw it
00:42:00
back on him. You gaslight him into
00:42:02
thinking he's a tight ass, but you're
00:42:04
the tight ass.
00:42:04
>> No, I think it's him.
00:42:05
>> Okay. Um,
00:42:07
yeah. How do you re in someone like him?
00:42:09
Someone like he's he's so high energy.
00:42:12
Um, I suppose you could call him a lar.
00:42:15
Uh, is he always like 100% on task when
00:42:18
it comes to training?
00:42:19
>> Yeah, he is. Yeah, he's very good at
00:42:20
that. So, he's um he he goes off on some
00:42:23
tangents occasionally. Um, but that's
00:42:26
just the way Sam is. Like, he loves to
00:42:27
surf and he loves to go fishing and um
00:42:30
he goes some snowboarding in the winter,
00:42:31
but he's actually really good at making
00:42:33
sure that it's not at a time when it's
00:42:35
going to interrupt his training. Um, so
00:42:38
yeah, very dialed in. When he's
00:42:39
training, he's on. Um, when he's when
00:42:42
he's not, he's joking around.
00:42:44
>> Yeah. Who who would you say is the gold
00:42:46
star standard in all in all time for
00:42:48
1500 meter in New Zealand like John
00:42:50
Walker? Um Nick Willis, who would it be?
00:42:54
>> Yeah.
00:42:54
>> Who's the 10 out of 10? And where would
00:42:56
Sam Tanner be compared to them on a
00:42:58
>> Yeah, it's a good question. Um it's
00:43:00
that's a really hard one to gauge
00:43:01
because, you know, we've had so many
00:43:03
Olympic medalists in the 1500. Um, but I
00:43:07
still think that Nick Willis is probably
00:43:10
in his era and the things that he faced
00:43:13
in his era. He was probably our
00:43:14
greatest, I think, but probably didn't
00:43:16
achieve what he should have um because
00:43:18
other people were, you know, doing some
00:43:20
things that they shouldn't have been
00:43:21
doing in front of him. So, yeah, I still
00:43:22
I still believe he should have been
00:43:24
twotime Olympic gold medalist.
00:43:26
>> So, so if Nick Willis is the gold star
00:43:27
standard 10 out of 10, where would Sam
00:43:29
Tanner be now and where do you think he
00:43:30
can get? I think maybe on the list of
00:43:33
New Zealand kind of 1500 mileers, he may
00:43:35
be sitting at fourth or fifth. Um,
00:43:37
>> wow.
00:43:38
>> Somewhere there. Um, I think he can I
00:43:41
think he can break the New Zealand
00:43:42
record. Um,
00:43:44
>> and I and hopefully it's this season,
00:43:47
this coming season that he does it. Um,
00:43:49
and if he doesn't, then Sam Ruth is
00:43:50
going not far behind him.
00:43:52
>> Yeah.
00:43:53
>> How did you two connect?
00:43:55
>> Um,
00:43:56
yeah, interesting story. I'd been
00:43:59
following Sam um when he was at um kind
00:44:03
of year nine high school, year 10. Good
00:44:05
good little athlete. He won year nine
00:44:06
cross country. And I was like, man, that
00:44:08
kid can move. Like he runs really well.
00:44:10
He's fast. Um but he didn't do any
00:44:11
training. He just wanted to surf and um
00:44:14
played some touch rugby and just kind
00:44:15
of, you know, enjoy some balance.
00:44:17
>> Yeah. Yeah. Skateboarded and stuff. And
00:44:18
then
00:44:20
>> um he just came to me one day and he
00:44:22
just said, "Oh, you know, would you
00:44:24
coach me?" And and I said, "Yeah, I'd
00:44:25
love to." you know, super talented and I
00:44:27
can see that you've got a lot of
00:44:28
potential, so let's do it.
00:44:31
>> But do you do you say to him you got to
00:44:33
take it did you give him any rules like
00:44:34
if you if I coach you, you got to take
00:44:36
it seriously?
00:44:37
>> No. No. I wanted Sam to be Sam. So, um,
00:44:40
I wanted him to maintain that
00:44:43
that love for life that he has and and
00:44:46
to be the to be Sam who's not just Sam
00:44:50
the runner, but Sam Tanner who runs, you
00:44:52
know, and so he's got he's got a life
00:44:53
outside of running um and m maintains
00:44:55
all of that and and that that keeps him
00:44:58
happy and, you know, happy Sam is a fast
00:45:00
Sam. So, um,
00:45:02
>> yeah, it's important that he keeps that.
00:45:04
>> Yeah, I I think you can see that in his
00:45:05
results on Instagram as well. Like if he
00:45:07
has um a bad day or result that doesn't
00:45:09
go his way, he's not sort of defined by
00:45:11
it. Like he's he can seem to move on
00:45:13
quite quite easily.
00:45:14
>> Yeah, he does. Yeah.
00:45:15
>> Like he's just Sam Tanner who runs, not
00:45:16
Sam Tanner the runner.
00:45:17
>> It's still I mean I think I think it
00:45:19
still eats away at him a little bit, you
00:45:21
know, when things don't go right as it
00:45:22
would for most people. Um but yeah, he
00:45:24
is quite good at um debriefing and and
00:45:28
kind of parking it, learning from it,
00:45:30
and moving on.
00:45:31
>> How how have you helped him improve and
00:45:33
how has he helped you improve?
00:45:36
Uh, I think I've helped him bring a
00:45:40
little bit more structure and planning
00:45:41
to what he does. Um, and
00:45:46
I don't know how he's helped me.
00:45:49
>> Patience, tolerance.
00:45:52
>> He's got to be so um I I love the guy.
00:45:55
>> He's fun to be around. Like he's fun to
00:45:57
be around.
00:45:57
>> Annoying at times though or
00:45:59
>> No, cuz he's like a little kid. Yeah,
00:46:02
he's
00:46:02
>> He is actually That's a good way of
00:46:03
putting it. He's got kid energy.
00:46:05
>> Yeah, he does. Yeah. Yeah. Um
00:46:07
>> Yeah. So he's just recent him and his
00:46:09
wife have recently had um a baby son.
00:46:11
>> Yeah, that's right.
00:46:12
>> Um so in terms of coaching, what happens
00:46:15
then? Do you like give him like a blank
00:46:17
a blank schedule for a couple of weeks
00:46:19
or
00:46:19
>> Yeah. So we So we just carried on as
00:46:22
normal with the understanding from both
00:46:24
sides that it's going to be a little bit
00:46:26
messy until they find their feet and
00:46:27
there's going to be some ups and downs
00:46:28
and you know some sleepless nights that
00:46:30
are going to impact on his training. and
00:46:32
um and he's he's accepting that he needs
00:46:35
to be able to prioritize his training
00:46:38
but without sacrificing family. So um
00:46:41
yeah, it's his first child so he's you
00:46:43
know he's enjoying all the things that
00:46:45
new dads do and um and that's pretty
00:46:47
special in itself.
00:46:48
>> What What's it like going to the
00:46:49
Olympics as a coach?
00:46:52
>> Tiring actually, is it?
00:46:53
>> Yeah, it's really tiring.
00:46:57
>> Yeah. Yeah, really tiring. Yep.
00:46:59
>> Like in what way? What do you mean? Uh
00:47:01
it's just on the whole time. So um in
00:47:04
Paris um I was with triathlon first. So
00:47:07
we we had had a training camp in and
00:47:09
Pandora um and Sam and Hayden were both
00:47:12
there and we had all had a whole squad
00:47:14
um of people up in Endora training and
00:47:16
you know doing their certain roles. Um
00:47:19
we moved into Paris and I was with the
00:47:22
triathlon team and then it's the the day
00:47:25
of the men's triathlon um I switched to
00:47:29
athletics. So I that night we didn't
00:47:32
really get to celebrate hugely kind of I
00:47:34
moved from from triathon straight into
00:47:36
the village and was part of athletics
00:47:38
and so there was no there was no
00:47:39
downtime I didn't get to sit and enjoy
00:47:41
it. Um just straight into the next
00:47:43
thing. So and then it was in probably
00:47:45
another 10 days of athletics and then
00:47:47
fly home. So and by the time I get on
00:47:48
the plane I'm just exhausted. Well
00:47:50
>> at least you're allowed in the village.
00:47:52
Arthur Liard wasn't even allowed in the
00:47:53
village was he?
00:47:54
>> No he wasn't here.
00:47:55
>> How how anxious are you before these big
00:47:57
events as a coach?
00:47:59
Uh, I don't get too nervous. So, um,
00:48:02
probably the only time I I was really
00:48:04
nervous was in um in Tokyo for the
00:48:08
Olympics when Hayden's first Olympics.
00:48:10
And there were a few things that
00:48:12
happened prior that didn't set him up
00:48:13
very well for um in the days leading up.
00:48:16
So, yeah, I just sat at home by myself
00:48:18
and my wife and my brother-in-law and we
00:48:20
just watched the race together.
00:48:22
>> Now, how do you how do you talk your
00:48:24
athletes at like at Olympics or come
00:48:26
with games through a disappointing
00:48:27
result?
00:48:28
Do you need to say anything at all or?
00:48:30
>> Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah, we need to debrief
00:48:34
and and again, you need to be really
00:48:35
honest, but from a place of caring and a
00:48:38
place of love so that you're you're
00:48:40
addressing the facts. Um, but from a
00:48:42
from a place where it's actually
00:48:44
meaningful and, you know, it's not for
00:48:46
me to judge or tell anyone off. It's for
00:48:48
us to learn and grow and understand what
00:48:50
went wrong and what went right. What is
00:48:52
there one that stands out as the
00:48:53
toughest conversation you've ever had to
00:48:55
have with Samuel Tanner?
00:48:58
>> I think this year um at the World Champs
00:49:02
um was pretty tough for both of us. Like
00:49:04
it certainly didn't go as we would have
00:49:07
liked um and you know we we wanted much
00:49:10
more out of it. So that was that was
00:49:11
pretty tough.
00:49:12
>> Yeah. Yeah. We had a we had a debrief
00:49:14
and yeah that wasn't wasn't much fun.
00:49:17
But
00:49:17
>> you what does that look like? Can you
00:49:19
elaborate on that? Oh, we just sat and
00:49:21
talked about talked about the event and
00:49:23
um and how it unfolded and you know he
00:49:26
he'd made a a slight tactical mistake.
00:49:28
He'd run really well
00:49:30
>> and and then made a tactical mistake
00:49:31
with about 600 to go and just got caught
00:49:34
off guard and
00:49:36
>> and trying to understand why that
00:49:38
happened. Um and you know how we can fix
00:49:41
that for the future and what what
00:49:43
changes do we need to make.
00:49:44
>> Yeah.
00:49:46
If if he's made an error and he can
00:49:48
acknowledge it, there's not really
00:49:49
there's not much you can add really, is
00:49:50
there?
00:49:51
>> No, not really. Not not from my point of
00:49:54
view. We can understand why he made that
00:49:56
error and what what led to it and you
00:49:59
know what what things you could do
00:50:00
differently to not make it happen again.
00:50:03
>> I suppose the next big thing for Sam
00:50:05
Tanner that we're talking about is the
00:50:07
um the Glasgow Commonwealth Games next
00:50:09
year.
00:50:09
>> Yeah. And these World Indoor Champs as
00:50:11
well which is um in um March so well end
00:50:14
of February. Yeah. What's your hope as
00:50:17
coach for these two events?
00:50:18
>> Um,
00:50:20
oh, I'd love to see Sam, you know, make
00:50:24
the final of both. Um, the men's 1500 is
00:50:28
an outrageously deep event globally.
00:50:30
Like, it's and and it's got it's got
00:50:33
deeper and deeper every year. Um, the
00:50:35
the volume of guys running super fast is
00:50:38
is really high. And, you know, you can
00:50:41
only be a small percentage out and be
00:50:42
nowhere. Um, so yeah, so if he can win a
00:50:46
medal, be awesome. Make the final and
00:50:49
feature like he did in Birmingham, then
00:50:51
that would be cool.
00:50:52
>> Awesome.
00:50:53
>> Oh, watch the space.
00:50:54
>> Yeah.
00:50:55
>> Yeah.
00:50:55
>> Hopefully.
00:50:55
>> Um, now let's talk Sam Ruth.
00:50:57
>> Yeah.
00:50:58
>> Um, yeah. So, March 19th, 2025, at the
00:51:01
age of 15, he ran a 3minut 58 mile,
00:51:04
>> which is crazy. This is before you and I
00:51:06
were born, but um this was the the like
00:51:09
the threshold of, you know, human
00:51:11
performance, breaking the 4-minute mile.
00:51:13
Who was it? Roger Banister. Roger.
00:51:15
>> Oh, yeah. 59.
00:51:16
>> Oh, you're going to get me in trouble
00:51:17
here. 5 56 I think.
00:51:19
>> Yeah. Unbelievable. And now you got this
00:51:21
this um school kid.
00:51:22
>> I know.
00:51:23
>> From Bayer Plenty doing it.
00:51:24
>> It was It was unreal. Like Yeah. And in
00:51:27
the leadup, we kind of talked about it
00:51:30
and it's like, "Is it a possibility?"
00:51:33
And we were like, "Yeah, he could do But
00:51:35
it's outrageous to even think that. Um
00:51:37
and then for him to pull it off on the
00:51:39
day and you know and he had Sam Tanner
00:51:40
there helping him which was pretty
00:51:42
special and uh yeah just incredible.
00:51:45
>> Now it's worth pointing out um he's he's
00:51:47
um from good lineage.
00:51:48
>> Yes.
00:51:49
>> His parents um Ben and Jess are both
00:51:51
phenomenal runners like uh I think they
00:51:53
both won Oakland Marathon. Yeah.
00:51:55
>> They're really good athletes. So
00:51:57
>> Jess won a couple of times I think and
00:51:58
yeah Ben won a multitude of races.
00:52:00
>> So he never had an option but to be a
00:52:02
fast runner.
00:52:03
>> Exactly. Um but yeah, when did you first
00:52:05
meet him? Can you remember the age?
00:52:07
>> Oh, he would have been days old, I
00:52:10
think, when I first met Sam. Yeah. Yeah.
00:52:12
Um they just lived around the corner
00:52:13
from us at home. So,
00:52:15
>> um yeah, I met him when he was days old
00:52:17
and just followed him through his uh
00:52:18
primary school years and yeah, just
00:52:20
always he always had the
00:52:23
um pedigree to be great and never never
00:52:25
lost a race during school, you know,
00:52:27
primary school and intermediate years
00:52:28
and
00:52:29
>> yeah, and just continued. No, no doubt
00:52:32
everyone, you yourself included, made
00:52:34
the same sort of joke when he was a baby
00:52:35
before he could even walk that he was
00:52:37
going to be a good runner. Yeah.
00:52:39
>> Um there's no way of predicting that he
00:52:41
was going to be this good. Right.
00:52:42
>> No. No. I wouldn't have never predicted
00:52:44
that even um when I first started
00:52:46
coaching him, which was at the end of
00:52:48
year
00:52:48
>> his year eight. So, um I only take kind
00:52:52
of high school kids on um and for
00:52:55
coaching. I won't coach them when
00:52:56
they're younger, but at the end of year
00:52:57
eight, when they finish school, I'll let
00:52:58
them come and join the group. So, um, he
00:53:01
came along then and even at that point,
00:53:02
like you could see he was good and you
00:53:04
could see he was going to be a good
00:53:05
runner, but like to predict a year and a
00:53:07
half down the track that he was going to
00:53:08
run sub four, it was just would be it'd
00:53:10
be outrageous to suggest that. So,
00:53:13
>> um,
00:53:15
yeah. Why are you coaching him? Why Why
00:53:17
don't Why don't um his parents do it
00:53:18
themselves? Uh,
00:53:23
I don't think um I don't think Ben uh
00:53:27
would be a fantastic coach for Sam.
00:53:30
Ben's an amazing an amazing guy and a
00:53:33
great friend. Um, but he's a lunatic and
00:53:37
and he knows it. Um, so yeah, and and
00:53:40
Jess, I think um like she's got the
00:53:43
knowledge and she works as she helps me
00:53:45
out when I'm away. So when I travel, she
00:53:47
takes the group for me and works as kind
00:53:48
of an assistant kind of role which is
00:53:50
amazing and um it's fantastic but I
00:53:52
don't think she would be
00:53:55
>> keen to take on something like that.
00:53:57
>> Yeah.
00:53:58
>> Oh yeah. Alo I suppose the two separate
00:53:59
hats say parenting and coaching?
00:54:01
>> Keep them separate.
00:54:02
>> So So when when did you first see like a
00:54:05
holy [ __ ] time from him? You you talked
00:54:07
before about him you winning the cross
00:54:08
country and athletics day. Was there
00:54:10
like a park run or something when he was
00:54:12
young where you're like, "Oh my god,
00:54:13
it's a
00:54:15
>> 17minute 5k or
00:54:16
>> No, I don't think no. His parents
00:54:18
wouldn't let him do a 5k um at that age,
00:54:20
which I I endorse." Um, but he yeah, you
00:54:25
could just tell he just won every race
00:54:26
and won it by miles and was always just
00:54:29
looking really comfortable in these in
00:54:30
these events and and I think at the end
00:54:33
of year nine um at nationals and he he
00:54:35
just looked amazing at school champs and
00:54:37
it's like this kid is going to be really
00:54:39
good.
00:54:39
>> Um yeah, in a year and a half on he's
00:54:41
crushing it.
00:54:42
>> What's he like as a person? Is he like m
00:54:45
mature for his age? Just a standard sort
00:54:47
of 15 16 year old boy?
00:54:49
>> He's he's mature for his age. Um, very
00:54:52
thoughtful, nice kid, really pleasant to
00:54:55
talk to. Um, which is unusual for kids
00:54:57
of that age cuz sometimes you just get
00:54:59
grunts out of them, but he's actually
00:55:00
really thoughtful and you can have a
00:55:01
good conversation with him, which is
00:55:02
nice.
00:55:03
>> Yeah. You you mentioned before Sam
00:55:04
Tanner how he reached out to you when he
00:55:06
was ready because he's busy fishing and
00:55:09
skateboarding or whatever. I
00:55:10
>> Is that a worry that you've got this um
00:55:13
this this this kid who's a phenomenal
00:55:15
talent
00:55:15
>> and he might like burn out in his early
00:55:17
20s or at the age he should be peing,
00:55:19
he's he's Do you know what I mean?
00:55:21
>> Yeah. I mean, that's always a danger, I
00:55:22
think. Um, but doing the best I can to
00:55:26
avoid that. Um, keeping his load. Um,
00:55:29
really under control. Um, trying to make
00:55:32
sure that he's not over racing. Um, not
00:55:35
doing things that aren't, you know, him
00:55:37
for him, you know, age appropriate for
00:55:39
him is the term I'm looking for. Yeah.
00:55:41
>> Um from from a coach's perspective, um
00:55:43
being in Toadonga, having Sam Ruth and
00:55:46
Toadonga, having Sam Tanner and
00:55:48
Toadonga, two of the fastest runners in
00:55:49
New Zealand, must be a helpful dynamic
00:55:51
in that they can they can they can push
00:55:53
each other and train each other.
00:55:54
>> Um yeah. What's it like between them
00:55:58
though? Is it um
00:55:59
>> Oh, they're great mates, are they?
00:56:01
>> Yeah, they're great mates. Y So um yeah,
00:56:03
no, they're really good. And the the
00:56:05
group the group of young teenage boys um
00:56:07
that train with Sam Ruth and Sam Tenner,
00:56:10
they um they're really good, too.
00:56:12
There's some some quality runners in
00:56:14
there. Um George Wy, who's part of the
00:56:17
squad, he's run a 403 mile as
00:56:20
17year-old. So, like he's, you know,
00:56:22
without Sam Ruth, isn't it?
00:56:24
>> Without Sam Ruth being there, he'd be
00:56:25
like a phenom. Like, and so he's it's
00:56:27
just overshadowed and it's just
00:56:29
unfortunate timing for George, but like
00:56:30
he's a great athlete. He's got a
00:56:32
scholarship to the University of
00:56:33
Colorado, so he's heading over there
00:56:35
next year. Um, which I'm sure he'll push
00:56:37
on and do some great things.
00:56:38
>> For you, um, like a a running nerd and
00:56:40
now a coaching nerd, this must just be a
00:56:43
joy to watch on the side of a track.
00:56:46
>> Yeah, it's fantastic. I love it. Yep.
00:56:48
Yeah. Beats working for a living.
00:56:51
>> And Sam's locked up with a Nike deal
00:56:52
now, eh?
00:56:54
What?
00:56:54
>> Sam Tanner. Y
00:56:56
>> Sam Tanner. Yeah, Sam Ruth. Sam
00:56:59
Tanner Pummer. Um Sam Ruth in Yeah, the
00:57:03
school kid that we're talking about in
00:57:04
the sub4minute mile Nike deal. Yeah.
00:57:06
What does that look like?
00:57:07
>> Is it a long deal, a short deal, just
00:57:10
shoes?
00:57:10
>> Uh it's a it's it was an 18-month deal
00:57:13
when it was signed uh last year and so
00:57:16
it runs through to the end of um next
00:57:17
year. Oh, so signed this year. End of
00:57:19
next year. Um and and then but currently
00:57:22
it's being renegotiated by his father at
00:57:24
the moment. So um yes. So I'm not sure
00:57:26
how that'll look. It's not not really my
00:57:28
my business to know what kind of money
00:57:30
he's getting or what what's happening
00:57:32
financially him.
00:57:33
>> What are what are your long-term
00:57:34
predictions for Sam Ruth?
00:57:39
>> Um I think he's going to go down as one
00:57:41
of New Zealand's greats. Y
00:57:45
>> it's it's the distance before that we
00:57:47
were talking about that New Zealand has
00:57:48
got a stacked history. So that is a big
00:57:50
shout.
00:57:51
>> Yeah. Yeah. I I really think that he's
00:57:52
got he's got the capability to
00:57:55
>> do something really special.
00:57:57
I mean, you know him as an as an like
00:57:59
saying saying something like that could
00:58:00
be like a like a just a mountain of
00:58:04
pressure for someone. You obviously know
00:58:05
him well enough to know that he can hear
00:58:07
something like this and handle it.
00:58:08
>> Yeah, I think he can. Um
00:58:10
>> and you know, for me it's not I'm not
00:58:14
expecting him to do that, but I just
00:58:15
think he can do that. So, um from for me
00:58:18
it's not putting pressure on him because
00:58:21
>> you know, he'll just he'll just do as
00:58:22
well as he can. But I just think that's
00:58:24
that's where it's going to lead. Yeah.
00:58:26
>> Cuz at what age do runners typically
00:58:28
peak for 1500 meters? Late 20s.
00:58:30
>> Yeah. Mid mid 20s. Yeah.
00:58:32
>> Yeah. He's got like a Yeah. two to three
00:58:34
years Olympic cycles before he's even
00:58:36
peing.
00:58:37
>> I know. It's crazy, isn't it?
00:58:39
>> Terrifying. Like he's that good.
00:58:41
>> Amazing. Um
00:58:43
>> Hayden Wild.
00:58:44
>> Mhm.
00:58:45
>> Yeah. How do you feel talking about him?
00:58:47
>> Fine. Yeah.
00:58:48
>> Yeah. Absolutely fine.
00:58:49
>> Um Yeah. So you guys worked together,
00:58:52
had a wonderful working relationship. um
00:58:54
you went your separate ways at the end
00:58:55
of 2024. So he just his quote was um I
00:59:00
just want to know that I've done
00:59:01
everything in my power in my career to
00:59:03
know that I've turned every stone. So he
00:59:06
and this is quite flattering. I think he
00:59:08
replaced you for three coaches.
00:59:10
>> So he got a running coach, a swim coach,
00:59:12
and um a cycling coach.
00:59:14
>> Yeah. So we had currently worked with
00:59:16
the swim coach uh for a couple of years.
00:59:17
So he was already kind of part of the
00:59:19
team. Um uh yeah. So,
00:59:22
>> but is that is that difficult like when
00:59:26
when an athlete um
00:59:27
>> it was difficult um at the time um to
00:59:30
hear? Uh yeah. And it was more from a
00:59:34
relationship point of view than a
00:59:35
coaching point of view cuz we had when
00:59:38
he was young kind of 18 19 we'd kind of
00:59:41
take him in him in really into our house
00:59:43
and he'd lived in our place and you know
00:59:45
we'd fed him and and helped him you know
00:59:47
through a number of years. Um, and so
00:59:51
it kind of felt like he was going
00:59:54
it's I'm sure it's not what he intended,
00:59:56
but for us, for my wife and I, it was
00:59:58
like, "Oh, I don't need you anymore.
01:00:00
We're moving on."
01:00:01
>> Um, so it was quite hard from that point
01:00:03
of view just as a
01:00:05
>> Yeah. It's almost like a parent kind of,
01:00:06
you know, situation.
01:00:08
>> Yeah. Yeah.
01:00:09
>> So, when did you guys first meet? Legend
01:00:11
has it. Um,
01:00:13
he he beat you in a half marathon.
01:00:15
>> Stole my thousand bucks.
01:00:17
So, um, when was this? Like, he was a
01:00:21
teenager at the time.
01:00:22
>> Yeah, he was. Yeah, teenager. So, um,
01:00:25
>> was that the first time you met?
01:00:27
>> It was the first time. Yeah, it was the
01:00:28
first time we'd met. We'd raced um Oh, I
01:00:32
can't remember the name of the Wahhee,
01:00:33
some wahi challenge or something. We did
01:00:35
this race and he Hayden won it pretty
01:00:37
comfortably. Um, and then there was a
01:00:40
half marathon in Hawks Bay. Um, so
01:00:42
that's the first time I knew of him at
01:00:44
this multisport race.
01:00:45
>> How old was he at the time? Oh, he must
01:00:46
have been 18. Okay. 17, 18. And then
01:00:50
after that, I went to the Hawks Bay half
01:00:52
marathon. They had um some prize money
01:00:54
for first place. And I and I looked at
01:00:55
the start list and I was like, there's
01:00:56
no win in it. I should be able to steal
01:00:58
take this,000 bucks even though I wasn't
01:01:00
really at my full full powers. I was
01:01:02
like, I can still running well enough. I
01:01:04
can still get that. And I was like, oh,
01:01:06
there's that young fella Hayden on
01:01:07
there. Um but I should be able to
01:01:09
dispatch him pretty comfortably.
01:01:12
And so we started off and running pretty
01:01:14
quick and you know there's there's only
01:01:16
him and I left in the group and um I was
01:01:19
like I need to shake this guy. And so I
01:01:21
used every every move in the old man
01:01:23
book that I had and um just couldn't get
01:01:25
rid of him. Couldn't get rid of him. Um
01:01:29
he dropped me at one point. I got back
01:01:30
on and then we were going through the um
01:01:34
the vineyard at the end and there was
01:01:36
like a corner and couple of corners
01:01:38
around these around the vineyard and I
01:01:39
tripped on this tree route and stumbled
01:01:40
a little bit and he just saw that
01:01:42
opportunity and took it and went and
01:01:44
never got back on but yeah that was the
01:01:46
first time we met. Yep.
01:01:48
>> Unreal. And then so how does it go from
01:01:50
that to coaching him?
01:01:51
>> Yeah. So he um he went to
01:01:55
uh Maui to Extera and he won his second
01:01:58
um Exterior age group title was a the 16
01:02:02
to 19 age group. And when he got back,
01:02:05
he just contacted me and said, you know,
01:02:07
would you be interested in coaching me?
01:02:09
And I was like, "Yeah, that sounds like
01:02:11
a great challenge." He was kind of
01:02:13
straight pretty upfront. He said, "I
01:02:14
want to go um to the next com games um
01:02:17
and and to the Olympics." And I was
01:02:19
like, "Well, I don't know how you swim.
01:02:21
Let's let's see how you swim. Um saw him
01:02:24
swim. I was like, I don't know if you
01:02:26
can make it to the com games. It's
01:02:28
coming up pretty quick. Um so yeah, so
01:02:31
we started working together from that
01:02:32
point on. And yeah,
01:02:34
>> it was swimming his weakest discipline.
01:02:36
>> Yeah, from day one.
01:02:36
>> Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Um and you
01:02:38
you guys had a long relationship like
01:02:40
eight years, nine years.
01:02:42
>> Yeah. So that one uh Yeah, it was about
01:02:44
eight years. Yeah. Eight or nine years.
01:02:46
>> Um what were the highlights in that time
01:02:49
>> for you as a coach? Oh, it's got to be
01:02:51
winning two Olympic medals. Yeah. And
01:02:53
that one in Paris was pretty special to
01:02:55
be part of. Like that was that was an
01:02:57
attempt at taking a gold that you know
01:03:00
it got so close. Yeah.
01:03:02
>> Yes. What what happened there? I I I
01:03:05
vaguely I was watching it with my
01:03:06
girlfriend and I said, "Oh, Hayden Wild
01:03:08
is amazing. He's one to watch." And then
01:03:10
after the swim, she was like, "I thought
01:03:11
you said this guy is amazing. Like he
01:03:13
sucks." I'm like, "Be patient. Be
01:03:15
patient. You what?" So he he didn't do
01:03:17
great in the swim or he got caught up in
01:03:18
a
01:03:19
>> Yeah. So he he didn't have a great swim.
01:03:20
It was a really really tough swim in the
01:03:22
river sign. It was um the current was
01:03:25
flowing. Um it was dirty as well, but
01:03:27
the river was flowing pretty fast.
01:03:29
There's a lot of water in there and um
01:03:31
was quite a technical swim from that
01:03:32
perspective. So the good swimmers were
01:03:34
strong enough to get through that really
01:03:36
well and can could manage it. And the
01:03:38
ones who aren't such great swimmers kind
01:03:40
of um are the ones that got found out a
01:03:42
little bit. So yeah, he he didn't have a
01:03:43
great swim, but he got into a good bike
01:03:45
group. and um and then you know we we
01:03:48
had did some pre-arranged team work to
01:03:50
help him out to get back to the front.
01:03:51
So um
01:03:52
>> pre-arranged teamwork, what does that
01:03:54
mean? Uh so about 18 months before the
01:03:57
games um I'd I'd started petitioning try
01:04:00
and zed to um include in our policy that
01:04:05
we select someone to help Hayden um in
01:04:07
the event that he needs it um you know
01:04:10
to win a medal and and my basis was that
01:04:13
you know it's New Zealand winning a
01:04:14
medal and the program winning a medal
01:04:16
not just not just him personally so the
01:04:19
whole um HP department is kind of
01:04:21
reliant on funding so if we get a medal
01:04:24
then um the funding will will follow. So
01:04:28
>> um so it went through a kind of lengthy
01:04:30
process and it never really got to the
01:04:32
point where they were going to select a
01:04:35
domestique uh for him but the policy was
01:04:38
set up that it was in there but kind of
01:04:41
under lots of layers. So um it ended up
01:04:44
that Dylan McCullik who um was was
01:04:48
selected um as the other male on the
01:04:51
team or the in New Zealand team and he
01:04:54
put his hand up and said look if Hayden
01:04:55
needs some help I'm willing to do all I
01:04:57
can to um to be the man for him. So, um,
01:05:00
yeah. So, so, so his coach, John
01:05:03
Helerman's, myself and Hayden and Dylan
01:05:05
sat down in the days leading up and just
01:05:07
kind of talked about probably about 10
01:05:09
different ways that, um, they could work
01:05:11
together or Dylan could help him or
01:05:13
Hayden could help Dylan or, you know,
01:05:14
depending on what circumstances played
01:05:16
out. And so on race day, Dylan made the
01:05:19
front pack, had a great swim. Um, Hayden
01:05:21
ended up being in the second pack on the
01:05:23
bike and they weren't making any ground.
01:05:24
So we had kind of pre-arranged for him
01:05:26
to um drop back to that group and then
01:05:28
just tow um that group back to the front
01:05:31
so that he would be there ready for the
01:05:32
run. So So that's how it unfolded and um
01:05:35
yeah Dylan was the star on that day like
01:05:37
when he would never have won a medal if
01:05:39
it wasn't for Dylan. So
01:05:41
>> yeah it's very selfless
01:05:43
say Dylan was um you know got the white
01:05:45
line fever or whatever you call him was
01:05:47
like no [ __ ] you guys this is my
01:05:48
opportunity. Did he have a chance of
01:05:50
winning a medal himself or possibly not?
01:05:53
Uh, oh, look, there's always a chance. I
01:05:55
think it would have been a real outside
01:05:56
chance for him. Dylan's a lovely bloke
01:05:58
and a supremely talented athlete.
01:06:01
>> Um,
01:06:02
>> but in that environment, I think, yeah,
01:06:04
there was only Hayden was our only
01:06:06
chance of winning a medal. So, yeah.
01:06:09
>> Um,
01:06:12
yeah, that's [ __ ] That's awesome. Yeah,
01:06:15
>> the um um at the time we're recording
01:06:18
this um in November, he had an event
01:06:20
last weekend where there was a complete
01:06:23
cluster [ __ ] quite frankly a shambles.
01:06:24
Yeah.
01:06:25
>> Where was that? Um
01:06:26
>> uh Dubai.
01:06:27
>> Dubai. Yeah. So he ended up doing an
01:06:29
extra an additional lap on the bike. Uh
01:06:31
he was I think he was in the lead at the
01:06:32
time.
01:06:32
>> Yeah, he was. Yeah.
01:06:33
>> Yeah. So you you still follow him
01:06:35
closely and you watch these things?
01:06:36
>> Yeah, I watch all the events. I'm a fan
01:06:37
of the sport. though. Um, even before I
01:06:40
was coaching in triathlon, I was I'd
01:06:41
watched all the um the World Series
01:06:43
races and I'll continue to do so. I
01:06:45
enjoy, you know, I enjoy the sport and
01:06:48
watching how people um perform and yeah,
01:06:50
so I was pretty keen to see how he got
01:06:52
on.
01:06:52
>> What What's your take on on what went
01:06:54
down at that event in Dubai?
01:06:56
>> Uh, from a bike perspective, I think
01:06:59
Hayden made a mistake and went and did
01:07:02
an extra lap. I just for whatever reason
01:07:04
just miscounted, didn't listen to
01:07:05
briefing. I have no idea what went on,
01:07:07
but um yeah, so he he did an extra lap,
01:07:10
took two other guys with him. Um and
01:07:12
then on the run um I think the T100
01:07:15
officials just screwed up and sent them
01:07:17
into the finish early and made a mess of
01:07:19
it. So, but I think from an organization
01:07:21
point of view like T100 need to learn um
01:07:24
and grow from that and kind of make sure
01:07:26
that you know for for their own uh point
01:07:29
of view that they're actually putting on
01:07:30
a spectacle that people want to watch
01:07:31
and they don't turn it on and see this
01:07:33
absolute shambles of a race. It's you
01:07:35
know no one's
01:07:36
>> no one knows who w is winning and just a
01:07:39
poor spectacle. So yeah, they need to
01:07:41
make some make some quick changes. I
01:07:44
>> I think they are right. They're going to
01:07:45
have like lap counters now and
01:07:46
>> it's a no-brainer though. People have
01:07:48
been doing that for years.
01:07:49
>> Come on.
01:07:50
>> How hard is it?
01:07:51
>> Yeah. Anytime you go more than like two
01:07:53
laps on something, you need to have lap
01:07:54
counters cuz people get Yeah. people get
01:07:56
caught up in the in the racing and um
01:07:59
and if you're not helping that manage
01:08:01
that side of it, then the race is going
01:08:02
to turn into a mess.
01:08:03
>> So, do you you still text them like
01:08:05
before or after events or you sort of
01:08:08
you try and sort of step back a bit?
01:08:09
>> No, just hands off. No, I we haven't we
01:08:11
haven't really had any contact um for a
01:08:13
while, but I I did see him on the Gold
01:08:15
Coast. Oh, on the go host some Wooling
01:08:17
Gong a couple of weeks ago when I was
01:08:18
over there. So, we had a bit of a chat
01:08:19
and catch.
01:08:20
>> Is it Is it awkward now or not? Not Not
01:08:22
really.
01:08:23
>> No, a little bit awkward, I guess. Yeah,
01:08:24
but No, it's fine.
01:08:25
>> Yeah,
01:08:26
>> we're still friends. Just we just
01:08:27
haven't been in contact much. Yeah.
01:08:28
>> Um he did he did say at the time so it
01:08:31
happened just sort of before Christmas
01:08:33
2024. He said he's going to try out the
01:08:35
three coach thing for a year
01:08:36
>> and then, you know, if it doesn't work,
01:08:38
perhaps go back. Any Yeah. What's your
01:08:41
assessment of how the year's been? It's
01:08:43
almost a year.
01:08:44
>> Yeah. So when when we first had the
01:08:46
conversation, well got on a year ago
01:08:48
now. Um you know he kind of told me what
01:08:52
he was planning and um and I said to him
01:08:54
at the time look if it's if it if it
01:08:55
doesn't work out my door is still open
01:08:57
like you you know give me a call and we
01:08:59
can talk and you know
01:09:00
>> see what happens. Um
01:09:03
and yeah I don't know he's he's had a
01:09:06
good year. Um he was really unlucky with
01:09:09
the bike crash that he had in Japan. Um
01:09:12
and that's probably hindered really some
01:09:14
of his performances, especially on the
01:09:16
World Series. Um you have to be, you
01:09:18
know, swimming really well to be in
01:09:19
contention in those races. So um but I
01:09:22
don't looking from the outside, I don't
01:09:24
know that he's improved from where he
01:09:27
was as a as an athlete. I think he's
01:09:28
probably just stayed the same.
01:09:30
>> Yeah.
01:09:31
>> Yeah. You mentioned before the So he he
01:09:34
raises the conversation. Um I can I
01:09:36
can't imagine that was an easy thing for
01:09:37
him to raise with you. Yeah. Given the
01:09:39
level of um the things you've been
01:09:41
through. Yeah.
01:09:43
>> Yeah. How how do you reflect on that?
01:09:45
>> Yeah. I mean,
01:09:46
>> were you were you blindsided by it at
01:09:47
the time or
01:09:48
>> Yeah, completely blindsided. And I was
01:09:50
quite lucky that my wife was there at
01:09:51
the same time. So, um, yeah, I don't
01:09:54
know if that was by design on his part
01:09:55
or just the way it happened, but, um,
01:09:58
yeah, and as I, as I said before, you
01:10:00
know, we kind of took him in as almost
01:10:01
like parents and looked after him and,
01:10:04
um, you know, lived in our house for for
01:10:05
a long period of time and, um, yeah, so
01:10:08
she kind of felt like a mother to him as
01:10:10
well. So, yeah, it hurt and it
01:10:12
blindsided us and I'm sure it was not
01:10:14
easy for him as well.
01:10:16
>> Yeah, I mean, you Yeah, you can sort of
01:10:18
understand it from like he's just
01:10:19
ruthlessly driven. So when that that
01:10:21
explanation like he just doesn't want to
01:10:22
leave any stone unturned, I can sort of
01:10:24
understand that. But yeah, all just just
01:10:26
sucks all around. Were you were you sad
01:10:29
at the time or angry?
01:10:30
>> Uh no, never angry. Um disappointed I
01:10:33
think. Um
01:10:35
>> yeah, I athletes make change like and
01:10:39
that happens all the time. Um I think
01:10:41
mostly athletes make change when things
01:10:44
aren't going well. Um, I think when
01:10:45
you're in a position like he was, you
01:10:48
know, one of the best in the world,
01:10:50
nothing really going wrong with his
01:10:51
training or his form or his performances
01:10:54
at kind of an odd time to do it. But
01:10:57
>> everyone has their reasons.
01:10:59
>> Yeah, I understand what you're saying.
01:11:00
It's like Joseph Parker getting rid of
01:11:01
Kevin Barry and trying something else
01:11:03
when he was having some flat results.
01:11:04
But yeah, there was no sort of Yeah,
01:11:07
yeah, I can understand it. Um,
01:11:11
as an athlete, do you think he's at his
01:11:12
peak or still climbing towards it or
01:11:16
>> uh he's probably getting real close to
01:11:18
his peak? Probably probably plateaued on
01:11:21
the peak and yeah, at some point it'll
01:11:24
decline.
01:11:25
>> He's got a phenomenal. What medals has
01:11:27
he got? Just silver and bronze Olympic
01:11:29
medals. Is that
01:11:30
>> Yep. And a Commonwealth silver.
01:11:34
>> Yeah. Incredible. So he could end up
01:11:36
with the whole rainbow.
01:11:37
>> Could do. Yeah. Yeah, I think it'll be I
01:11:40
think the way that the racing that World
01:11:43
Series level Olympic distance um has
01:11:46
changed in the last 12 months, it's
01:11:48
going to make it extremely difficult for
01:11:49
him to make it back um and win a gold. I
01:11:52
think yeah, the there's been a bit of an
01:11:55
evolution um in in in the event.
01:11:58
>> Yeah. How do you mean?
01:12:00
>> Uh I think the swimmers, the really good
01:12:02
swimmers, the extremely good swimmers um
01:12:05
are taking the race to everyone else. So
01:12:08
they're not giving those guys like
01:12:09
Hayden and Alex Ye an opportunity to get
01:12:11
back into the race.
01:12:12
>> They're just um just keeping them at
01:12:15
>> arms length.
01:12:17
>> What do you think um Hayden Wild's
01:12:18
greatest strengths and weaknesses are?
01:12:22
>> Swimming. It sounds like
01:12:24
>> it's definitely not a strength. Um oh
01:12:26
look, he's an extremely um motivated
01:12:30
individual like Yeah. and determined to
01:12:34
do really well and and he's really
01:12:36
innovative. Um got lots of street
01:12:38
smarts. Um yeah, always trying new stuff
01:12:41
and um yeah,
01:12:43
>> kind of almost outthinking people. Yeah.
01:12:45
Yeah. That perspective from a street
01:12:46
street smarts point of view.
01:12:47
>> Yeah. It's interesting with what what
01:12:49
you're just saying. I had Sir Steve
01:12:51
Hansen on the podcast and he's got a
01:12:52
theory that um a person's greatest
01:12:54
strength is usually their greatest
01:12:55
weakness as well. And maybe that's the
01:12:57
same as what you're saying with Hayden.
01:12:58
like he's, you know, this is the reason
01:13:00
he replaced you for other coaches, just
01:13:02
because of, you know,
01:13:03
>> that drive he's got. Um,
01:13:06
>> and what about his future even beyond
01:13:08
triathlon? What, what do you see him
01:13:10
doing or what do you hope he does? Like
01:13:11
Iron Man, um, marathon?
01:13:13
>> Oh, I'd say I'd say he'll go to Iron Man
01:13:15
eventually at some point. Yeah, probably
01:13:16
within the next few years. I'd say he'll
01:13:18
end up there. Um, which I think he he'll
01:13:20
do extremely well. I think um he'll go
01:13:22
to Hawaii and um win the world title um
01:13:25
quite convincingly, I think. Yeah,
01:13:27
>> cuz he's a good runner, right? Like a
01:13:28
lot of people didn't know this, but he
01:13:29
had a crack at the um the the New
01:13:31
Zealand track record for 60 minutes.
01:13:32
>> That's right. Yeah. Which is going
01:13:34
>> came close.
01:13:34
>> Yeah, he came very close. And that's
01:13:36
actually going have someone else is
01:13:37
having an attempt at that tonight. So
01:13:39
>> at Mount Smart.
01:13:40
>> Oh, unreal. What is the current record?
01:13:42
How many? 20
01:13:44
>> 20 and a halfk for the hour.
01:13:47
>> Is it there for the taking?
01:13:49
>> I think so. It's It's not a super fast
01:13:52
time like and I think um again with the
01:13:55
new footwear I think um you know the
01:13:56
right runner can can get it.
01:14:00
>> Thanks for sharing that stuff.
01:14:02
Especially the stuff about Hayden. Like
01:14:04
is it Yeah. Is is it is it hard for you
01:14:06
to talk about or
01:14:07
>> No. No, it's not hard. No, I mean it's
01:14:10
not not my favorite topic in the world,
01:14:11
but um yeah, I'm happy to talk about it.
01:14:13
It's something that happened and I'm
01:14:15
proud of the the time that we spent
01:14:16
together as you know athlete and coach
01:14:18
and all the things that we kind of went
01:14:20
through and all the challenges that we
01:14:21
had and
01:14:22
>> um yeah and winning two Olympic medals
01:14:25
is you know um pretty special.
01:14:28
>> Yeah. Yeah. You reflect on that fondly.
01:14:31
>> Yeah. Absolutely.
01:14:32
>> Yeah.
01:14:33
>> Um I mean it's part of the story like
01:14:34
the the ending is not ideal but it's
01:14:36
still like you know a fantastic part of
01:14:39
the Craig Kirkwood story, right?
01:14:41
>> Hey, so I mentioned on Instagram that
01:14:42
you're coming in. Um, and there's
01:14:44
>> got some scary questions
01:14:46
to think.
01:14:46
>> No, no, no. Actually, most of them I
01:14:48
think are from what you'd call What did
01:14:50
you call them? I called them weekend
01:14:51
warriors. You called them
01:14:53
>> fun runners.
01:14:53
>> Runners. Weekend warriors.
01:14:55
>> Um, oh, here's any New Zealand athletes
01:14:58
that you think, [ __ ] I'd love to get my
01:15:00
hands on them.
01:15:04
>> Oh, nothing. No, no one pops into my
01:15:06
mind automatically.
01:15:07
>> Yeah. No,
01:15:08
>> I think almost anyone that's at that
01:15:10
level is um on your books already.
01:15:14
>> Yeah, there I mean there's lots of
01:15:15
really talented people in New Zealand
01:15:17
and and um
01:15:19
>> you know and Arthur Lyd back to him, he
01:15:21
he said there's champions in every
01:15:23
school in in every town in in New
01:15:25
Zealand and it's just having the right
01:15:26
person to foster that that talent and um
01:15:29
make them realize that they can achieve
01:15:31
what they want, you know, what they not
01:15:32
even dreaming of. So,
01:15:35
>> for the average Kiwi who hates running
01:15:37
but wants to be a runner, where's the
01:15:39
starting point?
01:15:42
>> Start slow, jog. Yeah. Jog like 1 minute
01:15:45
on, one minute off, and just kind of
01:15:46
build from there. Yeah. And just try not
01:15:49
to run too fast. Like that's what most
01:15:51
people do when they go running. They go
01:15:52
ripping out the door and 3 minutes later
01:15:55
they they're walking because they've
01:15:56
gone too fast. So,
01:15:58
>> I'm so pleased
01:15:59
>> bit too slow. Bit go a bit slower. I'm
01:16:01
so pleased you see that because I I get
01:16:02
people messaging me all the time asking
01:16:04
how to start and I I'll say go, you
01:16:06
know, walk for four minutes, run for
01:16:07
one, repeat that cycle a few times.
01:16:09
>> Absolutely. And just jog. Don't even
01:16:10
wear a watch. Just just just enjoy the
01:16:13
process of getting fit.
01:16:15
>> Yeah.
01:16:16
>> Um
01:16:19
uh what is the bare minimum someone
01:16:21
needs to do to become a marathon
01:16:22
finisher?
01:16:28
>> I'm curious to hear how you answer this.
01:16:30
Well, I think anyone can finish a
01:16:31
marathon like within reason. Like if if
01:16:33
you're remotely fit, you can finish it.
01:16:35
You may not finish it in the in the time
01:16:37
that you want to achieve. And I think
01:16:39
that's probably where the question is
01:16:40
heading. Um maybe that's the the the
01:16:43
intent. Um but I think if you're if
01:16:47
you're running consistently, you know,
01:16:49
three or four days a week, um you'll be
01:16:52
able to get through a marathon without
01:16:53
too much discomfort.
01:16:54
>> Yeah.
01:16:55
>> I when whenever people message me this,
01:16:56
I say, "Look, you can do it with minimal
01:16:59
training." like
01:17:01
>> it's going to be the ugliest and most
01:17:03
awful day of your life. You're going to
01:17:05
be in hell for hours. Do you want to be
01:17:07
in hell for hours or minutes? It's up to
01:17:09
you.
01:17:10
>> I've always said with Iron Man as well.
01:17:12
It's the same thing. You know, people
01:17:14
talk about, "I could never do an Iron
01:17:15
Man." I said, "Well, you need to go to
01:17:16
Tapo and go down to the finish line from
01:17:19
10:30 to midnight and just watch the
01:17:21
people are coming in and then tell me
01:17:22
that you're not capable of it." Like, if
01:17:24
those people are out there doing it, why
01:17:26
can't you?
01:17:27
>> Yeah. No excuse.
01:17:30
>> I love that.
01:17:30
>> Yeah.
01:17:32
>> Yeah. They're truly inspiring.
01:17:34
>> It's incredible though the length of
01:17:35
time they're out. It's amazing.
01:17:36
>> I mean, you get your your Cameron Browns
01:17:38
or your Braden Curry and it's remarkable
01:17:40
what they do. But for someone that's out
01:17:42
there for like 18 hours or whatever and
01:17:44
and also in the leadup to that, they've
01:17:46
managed to somehow um navigate their
01:17:48
family dynamics and their their 9 toive
01:17:50
job and somehow fit in enough training
01:17:53
to get it done.
01:17:53
>> Yeah. And they're not and they're not
01:17:54
the kind of people who you would call
01:17:56
athletic. just just normal everyday
01:17:58
people just out there trying to achieve
01:18:00
a life goal.
01:18:02
>> Where do most runners go wrong with
01:18:03
training? The classic makes that
01:18:04
mistakes that you see every week.
01:18:10
>> H
01:18:11
I think some people
01:18:14
it's probably a couple of things. They
01:18:15
either run they either do workouts and
01:18:17
they're running too fast um for their
01:18:20
for their abilities um and then they're
01:18:22
just cooking themselves or they're just
01:18:24
jogging around and never doing anything
01:18:26
fast. So yeah, and so finding that sweet
01:18:29
spot in the middle is probably um where
01:18:32
most people aren't getting it right.
01:18:34
>> I think I think I'm in my jogging era at
01:18:36
the moment.
01:18:37
>> One pace one pace. But it just hurts
01:18:41
when I speed work. I just don't know if
01:18:42
I've got the
01:18:43
>> Yeah, I just I just love going out and
01:18:45
jogging these days. So, yeah.
01:18:48
>> Uh, what does Craig think of the current
01:18:50
culture of flexing your training on
01:18:52
Straa?
01:18:54
>> You've mentioned Yeah. the going out
01:18:56
without a watch a couple of times in the
01:18:57
podcast today. Yeah.
01:18:58
>> Are you are you sort of
01:19:00
>> I think people get tied up in the in the
01:19:03
watch too too much. Um, and I've I've
01:19:06
had conversations with people over the
01:19:08
years where they've not wanted to just
01:19:10
jog on a run because they don't they
01:19:12
don't want on straa and when people
01:19:13
seeing how slow they're jogging. I was
01:19:15
like, who cares? Like, no one cares.
01:19:17
Just go out and and enjoy it. Yeah. And
01:19:19
if it if it means, you know, if that's
01:19:21
what people get tied up with, then don't
01:19:23
even wear a GPS watch. Um, don't use
01:19:25
Straa.
01:19:26
>> Um, like I don't care if people flex on
01:19:28
Straa. That's fine. Just do whatever.
01:19:30
And I'm happy to I'm happy to jog 530
01:19:33
per kilometer just and put it on straa
01:19:35
and if anyone's going to make a comment
01:19:36
then so be it.
01:19:38
>> But you're I think you're beyond like
01:19:40
having an ego when it I mean you know
01:19:42
you've got
01:19:43
>> nothing to prove in the running side.
01:19:45
>> No. No. Exactly. Um if you could force
01:19:48
every runner to add one weekly habit,
01:19:51
what would it be?
01:19:55
>> Oh, that's a good question. Um maybe
01:19:58
just to sleep better. Yeah, just get
01:20:00
better quality sleep. Figure out what's
01:20:03
what's causing poor sleep or disrupting
01:20:05
sleep and fix that.
01:20:08
>> That's such a good answer.
01:20:09
>> Yeah,
01:20:09
>> cuz it's so doable for everyone.
01:20:10
>> Easy. Like,
01:20:11
>> yeah.
01:20:11
>> Amount of people who put their phone
01:20:13
next to the bed and claim that they have
01:20:15
it there for their alarm is just, you
01:20:16
know, whatever. You're just scrolling.
01:20:21
>> Um,
01:20:21
>> turn it off and put it downstairs or
01:20:22
something.
01:20:23
>> What's the difference between someone
01:20:24
who runs a 4-hour marathon and someone
01:20:26
who runs say 250? Is it talent,
01:20:29
discipline, pain tolerance, something
01:20:31
else?
01:20:32
>> All of the above.
01:20:33
>> Um,
01:20:35
talent, a lot of it is talent. Um,
01:20:39
some people are just born to to move
01:20:42
better than others. Um, which I think
01:20:44
plays a large part in marathoning or in
01:20:47
running in general. Um,
01:20:50
yeah. And maybe discipline. Yeah. People
01:20:53
who just get out there and and want to
01:20:56
train harder or train more are probably
01:20:58
going to do better than those who are
01:20:59
just not really that motivated to do it.
01:21:03
>> I'm thinking about getting a coach. What
01:21:05
should I be looking for in a good coach?
01:21:08
>> Find someone that you can have a a good
01:21:11
conversation with and a good honest
01:21:13
conversation with. um
01:21:16
someone who
01:21:20
maybe will be willing to challenge your
01:21:22
thoughts as well.
01:21:23
>> Yeah. Yep.
01:21:26
>> Well, just just Google Craig Kirk Quad.
01:21:27
>> Yeah.
01:21:29
>> Um how do you keep uh young talented
01:21:31
runners in the sport when they start
01:21:32
losing confidence?
01:21:36
>> Is that is that a thing? Is that an
01:21:37
issue?
01:21:38
>> It probably is an issue. Um I don't know
01:21:40
that I've had had that experience. Um,
01:21:43
I've had some kids who I've coached who
01:21:45
have drifted into other sports. Um, but
01:21:49
not drifted out of sport completely. Um,
01:21:54
we're we're we're really lucky, maybe by
01:21:58
design, but that we've got a really good
01:22:01
squad in Tonga. So, um probably got a
01:22:03
squad of 25 kids or so and they're all
01:22:06
high school kids and they're all
01:22:08
>> they're all wanting to come and train
01:22:10
and be part of the group and um yeah and
01:22:13
so that keeps them motivated to come
01:22:16
along and be with their friends and um
01:22:18
be part of something that maybe they you
01:22:20
know wouldn't be otherwise. So that's
01:22:21
quite quite lucky from that perspective.
01:22:23
Yeah, I see that on your Instagram from
01:22:25
time to time. Um, just running along
01:22:27
with the big pack. Um, and it's quite a
01:22:29
little like community or tribe or
01:22:31
whatever you want to call it that you've
01:22:32
created. That must give you just a huge
01:22:34
sense of pride.
01:22:35
>> Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah. So, so um so
01:22:39
proud of the group and the way they um
01:22:41
conduct themselves too. They everyone's
01:22:42
friends. There's no there's no fallouts
01:22:45
or animosity or there's no big egos and
01:22:48
um and if someone does get it start
01:22:50
developing and it gets chopped down
01:22:51
pretty quick by the banter and um yeah
01:22:53
so it's good.
01:22:54
>> Did did you ever imagine in your
01:22:55
lifetime that running would be like a
01:22:57
cool sport?
01:22:58
>> No,
01:22:59
>> it's crazy. Hey, what is going on?
01:23:02
>> Running running has definitely gone
01:23:03
through a massive boom. Um yeah, which
01:23:06
is amazing. It's it's so good that
01:23:08
people are just out there and
01:23:10
>> and enjoying a you know a seemingly free
01:23:13
um sport like it's expensive with shoes
01:23:16
and um
01:23:18
>> you know entries and stuff aren't cheap
01:23:19
but um for the most part it's free. You
01:23:21
don't have to buy any really expensive
01:23:22
equipment.
01:23:23
>> Yeah, that's what I say to people. The
01:23:24
barrier to entry is very cheap. Like sho
01:23:26
shoes are actually optional.
01:23:28
>> You don't need them. You don't need a
01:23:29
watch. Um I feel like what's happen
01:23:32
Yeah. It's funny the the running sort of
01:23:34
phenomenon that we're experiencing
01:23:36
actually worldwide at the moment
01:23:37
globally. I I I feel like it's a postco
01:23:39
thing and people just want that sense of
01:23:40
connection. That's why run clubs are so
01:23:43
>> popular. Like it's it's not about
01:23:44
running on your own, it's about running
01:23:45
with other people. And
01:23:46
>> it is. Yeah. It's community and um
01:23:48
getting together and um everyone just
01:23:50
enjoying it. And I think those run clubs
01:23:52
have done a fantastic job at uniting
01:23:54
people um to do that. Yeah, it's great.
01:23:58
And I feel like when um when it's no
01:24:00
longer cool, there'll be maybe like 10%
01:24:02
20%, however many of those runners that
01:24:04
keep at it.
01:24:05
>> Um which is exciting for the future of
01:24:07
the sport.
01:24:08
>> It is. It's great.
01:24:09
>> Yeah. Um from Instagram, um does he
01:24:12
recommend any strength exercises for
01:24:14
runners to avoid injury?
01:24:20
>> I don't know. Um there's some real
01:24:22
simple things you can do in the gym. Um,
01:24:24
but you need to be able to
01:24:26
>> you need to be able to conduct the
01:24:27
movement well, which is sometimes the
01:24:29
challenge. So, just a think simple thing
01:24:31
like a squat or a lunge. Um, but you've
01:24:33
got to be able to squat well. You got to
01:24:35
be able to hinge at the hip falling.
01:24:36
>> Yeah. You can't just go and squat. You
01:24:38
might hurt yourself. So, it could be
01:24:40
worse than
01:24:41
>> um the injury. So, yeah, if you're going
01:24:43
to if you're going to go SNC, um, then
01:24:46
find someone who knows what they're
01:24:47
talking about to help you.
01:24:49
>> Yeah. SNC, strength and conditioning. Is
01:24:51
is that at the uh the top level, you
01:24:54
know, the um the Sams and the Haydens.
01:24:57
Is is that imperative?
01:24:59
>> Yeah, it is. Yeah. To ward off injuries
01:25:01
and to um and just to strengthen
01:25:04
weaknesses and um you know, Sam Tanner
01:25:06
had a an Achilles injury last year and
01:25:09
we've worked really hard uh for the last
01:25:11
18 months to um go through an SNC
01:25:15
program and just just try and fix that
01:25:17
tendon and get it back to where it was.
01:25:19
Yeah. So, it's not easy. If someone
01:25:21
listening wants to run a big PB this in
01:25:23
the next year, what's the blueprint?
01:25:27
>> Secret secret source stuff.
01:25:31
>> What's the blueprint? Uh so you need to
01:25:33
be consistent. That's that's as I said
01:25:34
earlier like that's the key. Like you
01:25:36
just doesn't happen in one one week, one
01:25:39
month. Just it's going to take a year.
01:25:41
>> Think of it as a long-term goal. And
01:25:44
>> I I've just started running and it feels
01:25:46
awful. How long How long do I need to do
01:25:48
it before it starts feeling okay and
01:25:49
then enjoyable?
01:25:52
>> You need to slow down cuz you're
01:25:53
obviously running too fast. Um I don't
01:25:56
know that sometimes like I've been
01:25:58
running for god knows how long now and
01:26:00
sometimes it sucks. Like some I went out
01:26:02
for a run this morning before I drove to
01:26:04
Oakuckland and it was pissing rain and I
01:26:06
didn't feel very good. My legs were sore
01:26:08
and I was tired and I it just wasn't a
01:26:10
very enjoyable run. And that happens
01:26:13
>> and sometimes you just got to get
01:26:14
through it, park it, move on and maybe
01:26:17
tomorrow will be great.
01:26:19
>> Yeah. Why why is that? I'm exactly the
01:26:21
same. Some days it feels like you could
01:26:23
just you're running effortlessly and you
01:26:25
could run forever. Other days I'm just
01:26:27
like plotting around and even 10ks feel
01:26:29
feels difficult. And for me it's on
01:26:31
those days where I think [ __ ] what if I
01:26:33
wake up in the morning of an event and I
01:26:34
feel like this.
01:26:34
>> Yeah, I know. It's um
01:26:36
>> shakes your confidence.
01:26:37
>> Yeah. Sometimes there's no rhyme or
01:26:39
reason. Sometimes there's, you know, you
01:26:40
had a big day the day before. Maybe you
01:26:42
didn't eat very well yesterday. Maybe
01:26:43
you slept poorly. Maybe you had a couple
01:26:45
of drinks. You know, didn't have enough
01:26:47
water. All sorts of things play into it.
01:26:50
>> Uh you no doubt you've seen every injury
01:26:52
under the sun. What are some of the most
01:26:53
preventable ones?
01:27:01
I think uh anything kind of maybe calf
01:27:06
related, calf Achilles related I think
01:27:08
is preventable with the right kind of
01:27:10
stretching and strengthening. Um
01:27:13
>> most people don't have um enough calf
01:27:17
like strength um which then causes
01:27:20
problems. Yeah.
01:27:21
>> Especially as they get older. I like to
01:27:23
call it old man calf. Well, I I get
01:27:26
around that by just not having calves at
01:27:28
all.
01:27:29
>> I've just got bone down here.
01:27:30
>> Yeah, that's one way.
01:27:32
>> Uh, what's running one one running myth
01:27:35
you hear all the time that really grinds
01:27:36
your gears?
01:27:38
>> Well, I don't know. I don't know if I
01:27:40
have. Don't know if I've heard one to be
01:27:42
honest.
01:27:43
>> I'd say um running is going to [ __ ] your
01:27:46
knees.
01:27:46
>> Oh, yeah.
01:27:47
>> People say that like it's a guarantee.
01:27:48
>> That's a good example. That's rubbish.
01:27:50
Yeah.
01:27:50
>> Yeah. Yeah. What are your thoughts on
01:27:51
that? the the correlation between
01:27:53
actually I'm sitting here at the moment
01:27:54
with a with knee issues so it's a a bad
01:27:57
example but yeah what's your take on
01:27:59
that it's not a given is it that if you
01:28:00
run a lot of KS you're going to you're
01:28:02
going to wreck your knees
01:28:03
>> no I don't think it's um I think it's
01:28:04
probably more of a genetic thing maybe a
01:28:06
form thing
01:28:07
>> um maybe you've had a muscle imbalance
01:28:09
that you just been dealing with for
01:28:10
years and you've been running a bit
01:28:12
wonky and it's caused some knee problems
01:28:14
I I don't think the running itself on
01:28:17
healthy joints that are moving well is
01:28:18
going to cause problems
01:28:19
>> yeah I'm really time poor I have maybe
01:28:22
20 or 30 minutes a day to exercise.
01:28:24
What's the smartest way to train?
01:28:27
>> Just use that 20 minutes really wisely
01:28:29
and just just get out and just just go
01:28:31
for a run for 20 minutes. Um, sometimes
01:28:33
you can run easy, sometimes you can run
01:28:35
fast.
01:28:35
>> Yeah.
01:28:35
>> Sometimes you do a bit of hard running,
01:28:37
slow running in the middle of it.
01:28:39
>> Yeah.
01:28:41
>> Thanks for answering all those
01:28:42
questions.
01:28:43
>> Yeah, it was a it was a challenge. It
01:28:44
was better than I thought. I thought
01:28:45
they're going to be terrible.
01:28:46
>> Oh, knowing some of my mates.
01:28:48
>> No, you No, you know it. You'll be at
01:28:50
Metallica tonight, YOU'LL BE LIKE, "OH,
01:28:53
>> I should have said that or I should have
01:28:54
said this."
01:28:55
>> Um, how's it been? How do you How do you
01:28:58
enjoy reflecting on your life and your
01:29:00
career?
01:29:02
>> Uh, does it sit comfortably with you or
01:29:04
not particularly?
01:29:04
>> I don't know that I reflect on it very
01:29:06
often, but I I'm really happy with where
01:29:08
I'm at. Like, I I don't think I'd ever
01:29:11
have dreamed that I would be in a
01:29:13
coaching position that I'm in and have
01:29:15
the the stable of athletes, you know,
01:29:17
that I that I have. and looking at
01:29:20
looking after the careers of you know
01:29:22
some really talented athletes and I you
01:29:24
know you just got to be happy that
01:29:26
>> they're trusting you to be part of it.
01:29:27
So no very privileged
01:29:29
>> and and what's the future for um Craig
01:29:32
Kirkwood the man and CK coaching like
01:29:34
next 5 10 years.
01:29:36
>> Uh I I can't see myself changing
01:29:39
changing full stop. Um, no,
01:29:44
I can't. Thank you.
01:29:48
I can't see myself um like changing
01:29:51
jobs. I I don't I I realized after I
01:29:55
started coaching that I I'm not the type
01:29:58
of person to be who could work for other
01:30:00
people. So, I need to just do my own
01:30:02
thing and be really happy with what I'm
01:30:04
doing and and which I am. I I absolutely
01:30:06
love um what I do dayto-day and um just
01:30:10
helping people be better versions of
01:30:11
themselves and and you know meet meet
01:30:13
their goals and um so I don't I don't
01:30:16
think I'll be changing careers anytime
01:30:17
soon. Um and no no real desire to go
01:30:23
overseas and apply my trade somewhere
01:30:24
else. Um unless someone's got a huge
01:30:26
checkbook that they want to wave at me.
01:30:28
But um
01:30:30
yeah, so and and look from a personal
01:30:34
point of view um my boys are both at uni
01:30:38
and um my wife and I are happy in
01:30:40
Taranga and I think we'll just remain
01:30:42
where we are for now and and be really
01:30:44
content with um where our life's at.
01:30:47
>> Well, you were seeing Metallica tonight
01:30:48
with your 18-year-old son. Um I think as
01:30:51
a as a man, as a dad, that's an
01:30:53
achievement that your 18-year-old son
01:30:54
still wants to go to a a rock concert
01:30:56
with you.
01:30:57
>> I know. How cool. Yeah.
01:30:58
>> No, it must be a cool dad.
01:31:00
>> Oh god.
01:31:02
>> As soon as you say I'm the cool dad, you
01:31:03
become the
01:31:04
>> Either that or he's using me for the
01:31:05
ticket. I don't know. One of the two.
01:31:07
>> Oh, do we get the rope joke or no?
01:31:09
>> Oh, no. We'll just leave that hanging, I
01:31:10
reckon. Excuse the pun.
01:31:13
>> That's not a bad one. Another one you
01:31:15
could say if someone says, um, can I
01:31:16
have the rope joke? You could say, I'm
01:31:17
I'm afraid not.
01:31:19
>> Yeah. Well, that is the end of the joke.
01:31:21
>> It's a joke Kraken.
01:31:23
>> Yeah, you can you can Google it. Have a
01:31:25
look. Oh, well, are you proud of
01:31:28
yourself?
01:31:29
>> Yeah, I am. Yeah, I'm really proud of um
01:31:32
yeah, really proud of where I'm at um in
01:31:34
my life. Very proud of what I've
01:31:36
achieved from a coaching point of view.
01:31:37
Really proud of uh my family and what
01:31:40
where they're at and how my boys are
01:31:42
doing and um yeah.
01:31:44
>> Yeah.
01:31:44
>> Yeah. Taking that leap when you when you
01:31:46
lost your job into, you know, going into
01:31:48
CK coaching like it's a big bold move.
01:31:52
>> Yeah. could have gone badly and I would
01:31:54
have been back to doing some sales role
01:31:55
that I hated um
01:31:57
>> or something else. Who knows? Yeah.
01:31:59
>> Well, Craig Kirkwood, you're a great New
01:32:01
Zealander. Thank you so much for coming
01:32:02
on the podcast.
01:32:03
>> Thank you very much for the opportunity.
01:32:04
It's awesome. Not as scary as I thought.
