00:00:00
Oh, good. You're here. Come on. This is
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the center of performance. Whenever
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there's a top performance in New
00:00:06
Zealand, it all comes from here. That's
00:00:08
Lisa Carrington. She's been doing that
00:00:10
for days. That's the boys who got the
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hole in one in to
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Finn. How's the performance going?
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>> Top tier.
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>> Nice. This is our generate room. In
00:00:21
here, you'll find our top performers
00:00:22
helping Kiwis maximize their Kiwi Saver
00:00:24
investments. Get in here, Finn.
00:00:26
>> Maximize. Generate. Putting performance
00:00:29
first.
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>> Jamie Mil, welcome to my podcast.
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>> Oh, good morning, Dom. How are you? I'm
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doing good. Are you nervous?
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>> I'm so nervous, mate. Been to the toilet
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12 times.
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>> Why? Why are you nervous?
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>> Oh, mate. I I I am, without sounding
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like a a stalker, I am a fan, mate. I've
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I've, you know, heard you and know about
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you for many, many years coming from New
00:00:56
Zealand. So, I I'm actually very
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privileged and and honored to be able to
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come and and sit with you this morning.
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So, yeah, it makes me nervous.
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>> Well, well, likewise. It's a privilege
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and an honor to have you here. Um, would
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it be fair to describe you as like the
00:01:08
David Gogggins of New Zealand?
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>> You've come in hot. Um, I'm like his
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little Mary cousin. I think I'm like a
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much more diluted version, but thank
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you. Yeah.
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>> Okay. Well, who is Jamie Mill?
00:01:20
>> Oh, great question. Uh, oh, look, I'm
00:01:23
I'm a father of um well, blended family
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if I'm honest. We got six kids, one on
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the way. Uh so very busy. Uh business
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owner, a mental performance coach by
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trade, and a strength and conditioning
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coach. And that's um that's kind of me
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in a in a really short little nutshell.
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>> And in the answer to that question, who
00:01:41
is Jamie Mill? You didn't mention any of
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your accomplishments or anything, which
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I think is really good. It means you're
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not defined by these things. Um but the
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the CV is impressive, right?
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>> Thank you very much. these world
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records, world record attempts, and just
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some some crazy endurance runs.
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>> What world records do you currently
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hold, if any?
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>> Uh, so I've got four of them, four four
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or five. Four, sorry, five world
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records. Four of them are official and
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one is unofficial. So, four are
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recognized by um Guinness World Records
00:02:10
and one is unofficial. But there's um
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did a 100 km ultra marathon with 20
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kilos on my back in the bush. Uh that's
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that's one uh I did um uh 22,222
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double unders. That's at two skips per
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one jump. Did that in 12 hours. Uh the
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world record for the most amount of
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chest to ground push-ups in 1 hour. Uh
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which was just over a thousand. Um chest
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is still not growing. Dom, I've been
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pumping this thing since I since I was a
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kid. And it won't.
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>> No. No. Come on.
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>> Wait. So that number again what? A
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thousand thousand press ups in an hour.
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Who's about,00 in total? Yeah. So that's
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that chest all the way. I don't know if
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you've seen the the other world records
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with the push-ups and they're doing
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these little half things. They're barely
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moving. Look like they're dry humping
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the ground, but I I um Yeah. No, chest
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to chest to ground. So it's about 1100
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something like that.
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>> That's a What does that work out to be
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per minute?
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>> Oh god.
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>> Have you done the breakdown
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>> mate? I'm I'm from [ __ ] and Ro. We don't
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do numbers, bro. We don't do numbers.
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Yeah, I can't remember actually. I don't
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know. It was maybe something like 20
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something per minute.
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>> Incredible.
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>> Something like that. Yeah,
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>> it's crazy. God, you must When did you
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start to burn?
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>> Oh, actually, truth be known,
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immediately. Yeah, immediately on that
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one. It it uh everything I'd done in
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training
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>> uh didn't Yeah, it was uh it was just
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completely out of the blue. So, cramping
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and stuff like that, which had never
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actually happened generally. So, um so
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if you ask about Yeah. the burn and
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stuff like that happened pretty much
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within the first 10 minutes. So, it was
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just managing the discomfort of
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cramping, which I'm sure you're familiar
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with with your marathon running. So,
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yeah. But, and it's always weird
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cramping across the chest cuz I always
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think my heart's only a couple of
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centimeters behind my chest. Surely
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hopefully that won't ripple out to my
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heart. But, yeah. So, yeah, first 10
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minutes. Yeah.
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>> What was it? Was there another one that
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we we didn't mention? Another world
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record?
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>> Yeah, I attacked the um 24-hour strict
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pull-up world record three times. Um, so
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I never did get that one. But little
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side note, you mentioned David Gogggins.
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I bet his record, and I must admit, I
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messaged him on Instagram.
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He didn't get back to me.
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>> Did he see it?
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>> Oh, good question. I don't know. I can't
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remember. But, uh, yeah. Yeah.
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>> His inbox just must be full of uh full
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of people that have outdone him at
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something, right?
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>> 100%. Yeah. He's like the benchmark that
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everyone's chasing or Yeah, most people.
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Yeah.
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>> So, how many pull-ups did you do? 4,267
00:04:38
in 24 hours. Yeah.
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>> Wow. How many did goens do?
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>> Uh I think he was about 4,000. Yeah. Or
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or late 3,000. The the guy there was a
00:04:47
Korean soldier who broke the world
00:04:49
record just recently and he got just shy
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of about 11,000.
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>> That's insane,
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>> mate. Like insanity. And he's a rig.
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Absolute rig. Muscles on muscles.
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So, you mentioned um the Guinness World
00:05:01
Record for doing a um an ultramarathon,
00:05:03
100 km with a 20 kilo um backpack on.
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I've I've got a weight vest at home
00:05:07
that's 20 kilos. I can I can walk for
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maybe like 20 minutes in that before the
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shoulders really start to hurt.
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>> 20 kilos is a lot of weight.
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>> It's a lot. It was just shy of 22 hours,
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>> right?
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>> Um yeah, tough. And a tough
00:05:19
ultramarathon actually. It's in our in
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our hometown on the Sunshine Coast, the
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Black All 100. Uh so through the bush
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and stuff like that. So, look, it was
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Yeah, really tough.
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>> Yeah. And and that's just one of like
00:05:29
over a hundred ultras that you've done.
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And you've you've done the um you did
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the length of the North Island in like
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eight days, nine days.
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>> Yes. So I've done the North Island
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twice, South Island once. Um
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Melbourne to the Sunshine Coast. Uh
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which was that was probably the longest
00:05:45
I've ever done. That was like 2,000 ks
00:05:47
in 18 days. So two marathons a day. Same
00:05:49
sort of format as Ned Brockman. When I
00:05:51
watched his doco,
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>> we actually approached it exactly the
00:05:54
same. Uh, obviously he ran across
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Australia, but both went out with the
00:05:59
same intentions. I tried to do 120 on
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day one and realized that the juice of
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the lemon wasn't worth the squeeze. I'm
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like, buttoned it back to 100 and
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realized, oh, might be out of my depth
00:06:10
and then dropped to 80 and he did the
00:06:12
same.
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>> So, it's just that over two marathons is
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a lot.
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>> You just love exploring your limits, eh?
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Even if um if it does increase the
00:06:20
chance of failing.
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>> Yeah. Yeah. I've developed a um a unique
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relationship with with failure. I'm I
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think I'm human. I don't, you know, it
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doesn't sit easily, but I I understand
00:06:32
the the fundamentals of it. You know,
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that's where we're learning the most and
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uh gaining the most experience. And I
00:06:39
think if we're not certainly speaking
00:06:41
for myself, I've I've found in in the
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past if I'm not failing or making
00:06:45
mistakes, I'm obviously in a really
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comfortable zone and I don't want to
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stay there too long.
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>> Yeah. There's that saying that failure
00:06:50
is a stepping stone to success which is
00:06:53
true. It still [ __ ] sucks though,
00:06:54
right?
00:06:54
>> 100%. It does. I think of all the world
00:06:57
records and you know I've got percentage
00:06:59
wise statistically I'm not doing that
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great in terms of attempts and and ones
00:07:03
I actually have. So
00:07:04
>> it's funny like two two recent podcast
00:07:06
guests I've had um in both ends of the
00:07:09
spectrum. Lori Mains All Black coach
00:07:11
1995.
00:07:12
>> Um I asked him how how often he thinks
00:07:14
about the 95 Rugby World Cup which the
00:07:16
All Blacks lost in the final. and he
00:07:18
said he thinks about it most days 30
00:07:19
years on.
00:07:20
>> Wow.
00:07:20
>> And then on the other end of the
00:07:22
spectrum, I had Hish Kuran who's like
00:07:23
the the the world's best um high jumper
00:07:26
at the moment.
00:07:26
>> Um and I asked him how how often he
00:07:28
thinks about his gold medal from the
00:07:29
Paris Olympics which he's had for like
00:07:31
15 months. He's like hardly ever.
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>> Oh,
00:07:34
>> so you have these these wins and they
00:07:36
don't really they don't they don't I
00:07:38
don't know you sort of you park them and
00:07:40
move on.
00:07:40
>> Yeah. I think you said it beautifully
00:07:42
just at the start. you know, things for
00:07:44
a lot of people it doesn't define them.
00:07:46
But now when you mention those names, I
00:07:47
can see why I'm so nervous, mate. Like
00:07:50
Lori Mains was on a pedestal for me as a
00:07:52
kid. So it's like, oh my god, I'm in the
00:07:54
same room.
00:07:55
>> Well, I heard a quote from you. Uh
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you've said um you've tasted the bitter
00:07:59
flavor of failure, which is very poetic,
00:08:01
but like how do you how do you stop
00:08:02
those moments from um defining you?
00:08:05
>> Like and how do you move on from the
00:08:07
Yeah. the fails when you you know when
00:08:08
you say you're going to do something
00:08:10
like you're going for this world record
00:08:11
and then you fall short. M uh look I I
00:08:14
think that's for me it's it's been a
00:08:17
real delicate
00:08:19
um dichotomy like it's been a real
00:08:21
delicate dance like I as you said before
00:08:24
I don't enjoy it and in fact I I really
00:08:26
my internal dialogue is horrific you
00:08:29
know when when I have come up short many
00:08:31
times and I get all the
00:08:34
>> I don't know if it's imposter syndrome
00:08:36
but the the whole tall poppy thing you
00:08:38
know you know people don't care why you
00:08:40
even bother and I get all that type of
00:08:42
really horrible narrative. Um, which
00:08:44
mind likes to remind you every remember
00:08:46
that time you stuffed up like like this
00:08:48
time? Just to let you know, don't forget
00:08:49
that just how [ __ ] you were. Um, so I I
00:08:52
think I'm not, you know, I'm not
00:08:54
dissimilar than most people,
00:08:56
>> but I I do my best not to get stuck in
00:08:59
it. And I think I'm I'm infectiously
00:09:02
enthusiastic about the next mountain.
00:09:04
You know, I'm always thinking about the
00:09:06
next mountain. Even when I haven't even
00:09:08
finished climbing that one, I'm always
00:09:09
looking for something else. Um, some
00:09:13
might call that maladaptive. I I just
00:09:15
think that's just how I've been wired
00:09:16
since I was a kid.
00:09:17
>> What does maladaptive mean?
00:09:19
>> Um, I think Don't ask me to spell it,
00:09:21
bro. Jesus.
00:09:24
Mal sounds like um maladaptive like just
00:09:29
unuseful. Yeah. Um,
00:09:32
>> insidious like kind of Yeah. poisonous,
00:09:36
>> you know, like a poison on a drip type
00:09:38
thing. Slow. Um, yeah, not useful is
00:09:40
probably a probably a better way.
00:09:42
>> So, where did the um the love of
00:09:44
suffering and doing hard stuff begin?
00:09:47
>> There's got to be a why.
00:09:48
>> You've got to be a twisted individual.
00:09:49
>> I thought it was only a matter of time
00:09:51
before you come with the big ones with
00:09:52
those tissues, mate. There's some wet
00:09:54
wipes. Um,
00:09:57
uh, look, I've done a lot of I think
00:10:01
like a lot of people and and I've
00:10:02
listened to a lot of your guests on
00:10:04
here, Dom, it started really early. I
00:10:07
just didn't realize it. You know, I I
00:10:09
grew up um, in Roouura uh, out in Faka
00:10:13
or Fenton Parker
00:10:15
well below the poverty line. Um, we
00:10:18
never had a car ever. So, and and no
00:10:21
money for food. My my uh my mother left
00:10:24
when I was really really young, only a
00:10:26
few months old, which which was kind of
00:10:28
unheard of in the late 70s, early 80s. I
00:10:30
think it I think it was out there, but
00:10:31
it just wasn't that common. So, I was
00:10:33
raised just by my dad with um some
00:10:35
influence from my grandparents.
00:10:37
Um he was a diver in the Navy here in
00:10:40
Oakland, but he had a um quite a
00:10:42
horrific motorbike accident which gave
00:10:44
him some brain trauma uh paralysis. So
00:10:48
he was never the same after the
00:10:49
accident. And so inherently
00:10:53
I
00:10:55
you know with no car, no money, I the
00:10:58
only way I got around which was like a
00:11:00
lot of kids was I just had to walk. And
00:11:02
it wasn't until we were visiting home
00:11:05
about I don't know maybe 12 months ago
00:11:08
and it just just occurred to me one day
00:11:10
I thought I wonder how far my school was
00:11:12
from from home. I'd never like Google
00:11:14
Maps it or anything like that. I thought
00:11:16
hm. So we drove it. So instead of doing
00:11:18
I drove the actual route I used to walk
00:11:20
to school mate. It was exactly 10ks and
00:11:24
I'm like
00:11:24
>> so you're doing a half marathon every
00:11:26
day.
00:11:26
>> A half marathon every day to go to
00:11:28
school and like it m it didn't I didn't
00:11:30
have an umbrella. I didn't even have a
00:11:31
school jacket and some I did have shoes
00:11:34
so I never did it barefoot like some of
00:11:36
the hard ass stories you hear. So it was
00:11:38
never barefoot but um that was 20ks and
00:11:41
I thought whilst I wasn't at school for
00:11:42
very long like only a couple of years in
00:11:44
in high school that was a that was a
00:11:46
massive distance and I think that like
00:11:49
just no choice just had to adapt and
00:11:52
just had to find that resolve to just go
00:11:56
to school whether it was a bad day at
00:11:58
school a good day at school that's the
00:11:59
only way I was getting to school so I
00:12:01
think if you ask me honestly I think a
00:12:04
lot of that
00:12:06
uh yeah that was kind of the perpetual
00:12:08
start there.
00:12:10
>> Were you running or walking to school?
00:12:11
That must have If you're walking, that's
00:12:12
like an hour and a half.
00:12:14
>> Yeah. No. And it it was terrible. And
00:12:17
like still to this day, I'm like, mate,
00:12:19
I just didn't think anything of it. No
00:12:21
wonder I was like 18 kilos dripping wet.
00:12:24
Like nothing nothing to me. But yeah, it
00:12:26
was sometimes I would jog like if I was
00:12:28
late or and I think similar to your
00:12:32
story with your mom, Dom, that which I
00:12:33
read, my grandfather was like an
00:12:36
enormous fan of marathon running. So I
00:12:38
was dragged all over the North Island to
00:12:41
the different running events from
00:12:42
Huntley to Talpo to Oakland. And so that
00:12:45
I think was in my DNA. So every now and
00:12:47
then I might break my stride and have a
00:12:49
little trot. Um but yeah, generally
00:12:51
walking. Yeah.
00:12:53
>> Um yeah, you mentioned your mom before.
00:12:55
It's Yeah. Is she still Is she still
00:12:57
alive? Do you have a relationship with
00:12:58
her?
00:12:59
>> No. So, not at all. No. Um, so I don't
00:13:02
>> Did you Did you see her growing up after
00:13:04
she left or
00:13:05
>> Uh, great great question. I when I was
00:13:12
uh maybe 13 or 14, something like that.
00:13:16
I actually hitchhiked from Roouaura cuz
00:13:18
I knew she was in Christ Church. So, I
00:13:21
hitchhiked again. Now when I when I look
00:13:23
at my life now in hindsight I'm like oh
00:13:26
why are there no surprises
00:13:28
and I think like this morning I did a
00:13:30
quick 20k before I came in here to warm
00:13:32
up for the podcast. I think oh it's all
00:13:33
connecting the dots really. So I hitched
00:13:36
from Rourura to Christ Church and again
00:13:38
mate I was 13 14 and just now I think
00:13:42
about it like I all the children I've
00:13:44
got I think I would just there' just be
00:13:46
no way there'd have more chance of
00:13:47
flying in the air letting them
00:13:48
hitchhike. But but I did you know I
00:13:51
stowed away on the ferry got on a train
00:13:54
like I didn't have any money but that
00:13:56
was that was my attempt um to meet my
00:13:58
mother. It was you know that was my
00:14:01
fantasy my dream you know when I was
00:14:04
when I was finding life really difficult
00:14:05
as a kid um of which I did many times
00:14:09
like had lots of challenges like like
00:14:11
everybody that was my um yeah that was
00:14:14
like my silver lining that was the that
00:14:17
was the calm in the storm. From the day
00:14:18
I get to meet her, I thought everything
00:14:19
would be perfect.
00:14:21
>> Um, and to be to be completely
00:14:24
transparent, it was it like it was
00:14:27
disastrous.
00:14:28
I went there and introduced myself.
00:14:30
>> Um, which initially it was nice, you
00:14:32
know, the first day or something and
00:14:34
then I was told, you know, you can't
00:14:35
stay here. Like there's no room for you
00:14:37
here. Um, so within sort of 36 hours, 48
00:14:40
hours, I was and I remember making an
00:14:43
excuse like I was always had a
00:14:45
fascination with Denedan for some
00:14:47
reason. I think my grandparents and my
00:14:49
dad, they were Scottish and I knew I had
00:14:51
a Scottish heritage and I remember just
00:14:54
making jokes and excuses. Oh, it's okay.
00:14:56
I'm going to go and check out Deneden.
00:14:58
That'll be pretty cool. And like even
00:14:59
now I sit and think I was 13, 14, like
00:15:02
and just walked back out the door and
00:15:03
that was pretty much one of the last
00:15:04
times I ever saw her.
00:15:07
That's heartbreaking.
00:15:09
>> Yeah, it was a bit odd. Yeah. Yeah, it
00:15:12
was a bit odd.
00:15:12
>> Do you um I mean, yeah, you you like
00:15:15
you're such a like a happy and positive
00:15:17
guy, but is there any um like
00:15:20
abandonment issues or anything like
00:15:22
that,
00:15:22
>> mate? My my Yeah, whilst I am um uh
00:15:27
yeah, sort of uh incurably optimistic
00:15:30
most of the time. Um definitely I think
00:15:32
it it was a a huge variable played a
00:15:35
huge role in probably a lot of my
00:15:38
destructive behavior and um my and I
00:15:43
look I I've come to understand Dom
00:15:45
through the wisdom of aging that you
00:15:48
know she was if there is such a thing
00:15:50
and if I if I have wisdom if I've got a
00:15:52
little bit of it it's probably that you
00:15:54
know I think she truly was doing the
00:15:56
best she could at that time with the
00:15:58
resources she had um and the little that
00:16:02
I've I understand from different points
00:16:05
of view and stories cuz I suppose I did
00:16:07
my I had I was curious obviously up
00:16:10
until a certain point in my life and
00:16:12
yeah I think that's the best way I could
00:16:14
sum it up. she was trying to do her best
00:16:15
and I think you know I'm I'm very flawed
00:16:18
as a parent and and probably the more
00:16:20
most flawed human you've ever had in
00:16:22
your podcast you know so I give or take
00:16:25
the odd person but I I yeah I don't I
00:16:29
don't hold any respons I don't you know
00:16:31
point any fingers and I just get on with
00:16:33
it but I I look yeah in the name of
00:16:35
honesty I think it did definitely
00:16:37
contributed to some of my destructive
00:16:40
behavior when I was younger
00:16:42
>> you're very generous uh towards there.
00:16:45
>> Thanks, Dom. Yeah, that's kind of you.
00:16:47
>> Um, I'm thinking like if I was in your
00:16:50
position, I' I'd
00:16:52
demand answers,
00:16:54
>> you know, you you you've just let it go.
00:16:57
>> Yeah, I I think I I did, you know, I
00:16:59
really think I did. I did, you know,
00:17:01
fair fair bit of therapy. Spent a bit of
00:17:02
time talking to qualified, you know,
00:17:05
individuals about about the thing. Don't
00:17:07
know what that is. Uh
00:17:10
yeah, I'm not sure why necessarily I'm I
00:17:13
am wired that way. Don't I find it very
00:17:16
difficult to hold grudges. Not that you
00:17:19
were saying holding grudges or anything
00:17:21
like that. I I let things go quite
00:17:22
swiftly. I find I don't let things get
00:17:24
their barbs into me for very long. They
00:17:26
definitely do, but they they don't stay
00:17:29
there. I I move on pretty quick.
00:17:31
>> Yeah. I'm I'm wired the same way. It's
00:17:32
it's best for your own uh mental health.
00:17:34
>> I think so, mate. Yeah, I think so.
00:17:36
>> It's it's a selfish thing.
00:17:38
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think you're you're
00:17:39
absolutely right. Yeah.
00:17:41
>> What about your dad? Did he do all
00:17:42
right?
00:17:43
>> Uh I think if I could use the if I could
00:17:45
throw them in the same um wheelbarrow,
00:17:48
mate. I think a wheelbarrow is a
00:17:49
terrible term. If I could put him at the
00:17:52
same context, I again I'm a bit more
00:17:55
sympathetic with him.
00:17:57
>> Um you know, family would would like me
00:18:00
to think otherwise, but I think again,
00:18:02
mate, when you're he was an elite frog
00:18:05
man in the Navy in the 60s and 70s,
00:18:07
which
00:18:09
been very tough to go from, you know,
00:18:11
the pinnacle of the military to
00:18:14
definitely not vegetated, but just
00:18:16
really uh limited and impaired by his
00:18:18
motorcycle accident and raising a boy by
00:18:22
himself in the 70s and 80s, early ' 80s
00:18:24
in Roa would not have been easy on
00:18:26
obviously on social welfare. He never
00:18:28
worked. Actually, that's not true. He
00:18:30
did a little bit of time as a posty,
00:18:32
didn't last very long. Um, and yeah, I
00:18:35
think he I think he the same thing. He
00:18:36
did the best he could, which, you know,
00:18:38
for the both of us wasn't that great.
00:18:40
Um, so things were pretty turbulent,
00:18:43
mate. They were pretty pretty turbulent.
00:18:45
Um,
00:18:46
>> but he he became really disengaged when
00:18:49
I was about
00:18:51
11 or 12. Uh, had met a met ended up
00:18:56
becoming my stepmother. And yeah, that's
00:18:58
what got all his attention and all his
00:19:00
energy and focus. And again, I don't
00:19:02
begrudge him that. Um, prior to that, he
00:19:04
there were no women. And it was just me
00:19:06
and my dad.
00:19:07
>> Uh, everybody knew us but as a kid who
00:19:08
was getting doubled on the handlebars to
00:19:10
school on the push bike and everyone
00:19:12
else is in a car, but you know, we
00:19:14
skidded in the front door on a on a
00:19:16
dirty old mountain bike.
00:19:17
>> So, yeah.
00:19:19
>> Why Why didn't you go off the rails?
00:19:21
>> Oh, mate. I went off the the the rails
00:19:23
expentially. Did you?
00:19:25
>> I flew off the rails, mate. I can't even
00:19:27
find the rails. It was Yeah. No way.
00:19:29
>> No way.
00:19:30
>> Oh, you youth crime. Um, I developed a
00:19:36
yeah, a dangerous
00:19:39
uh and
00:19:41
um how how else would I a dangerous and
00:19:45
destructive relationship with alcohol.
00:19:48
>> It's one of these people I mean I still
00:19:50
remember to this day the first taste of
00:19:52
it and whilst it was disgusting and I
00:19:55
coughed and you know like remember those
00:19:56
little Yeah. like nip bottles or
00:19:58
whatever raided my
00:19:59
>> little miniatures.
00:20:00
>> Yeah. We raided my my mate's mom's
00:20:02
cabinet and you know everyone was like
00:20:03
oh this is disgusting and I you know I
00:20:05
was the same spitting it all over the
00:20:07
place but part of me was like is it
00:20:08
disgusting though? this is actually get
00:20:11
these warm fuzzies and and mate that was
00:20:13
really early on and so I spent a lot of
00:20:16
my life um yeah in and out of AA been
00:20:19
through the AA system four or five times
00:20:21
and uh so yeah so as much as um doing
00:20:26
better and bigger things recently in my
00:20:28
life it took a whole heap of chaos to
00:20:31
get there.
00:20:32
>> When did you what's your relationship
00:20:33
with alcohol like now?
00:20:34
>> Actually um pretty good. I was I've had
00:20:37
a number of periods of sobriety. Longest
00:20:41
was just about 4 years. Lots of
00:20:44
psychological work. Lots and lots and
00:20:46
lots and I mean like a lot of time spent
00:20:49
um trying to figure it out. And
00:20:52
>> so essentially now, oddly enough, after
00:20:54
a lot of deep psychological work, I can
00:20:56
I can have one or two at the very most
00:20:58
three. And I would do that maybe once a
00:21:00
quarter. So, but prior to that, I was
00:21:03
firmly of the belief. And in in AA, they
00:21:07
they ask you two questions, and I don't
00:21:08
know if you're familiar with the AA
00:21:10
structure. They they ask, you know, if
00:21:13
you start drinking, can you stop?
00:21:15
>> And the answer for me back then was a a
00:21:17
hell no. Like just a sniff of it and
00:21:19
it's on for young and old.
00:21:21
>> Um, and then the other question they ask
00:21:22
is, do you have a it's almost like a
00:21:24
manifestation. Do you fantasize about it
00:21:27
in the sense of if it's getting to
00:21:29
lunchtime, do you think, "Oh [ __ ] I
00:21:30
can't wait till 5:00 and, you know, have
00:21:32
a cold beer or a glass of wine or
00:21:34
something like that." And of which I
00:21:35
answered yes to that as well. Basically,
00:21:38
that's the royal flush. If you've if you
00:21:40
answer yes to one of those, then they
00:21:41
believe, you know, it's quite probable
00:21:43
that you you could, you know, have
00:21:45
alcoholism or, you know, a bad
00:21:47
relationship with alcohol. And I ticked
00:21:49
the boxes. Now I can I can confidently
00:21:51
say after all the work I've done. Um
00:21:54
yeah, it's like I've had a labbotomy.
00:21:56
It's like someone banged me on the head.
00:21:57
And
00:21:58
>> so that's actually great cuz I love a I
00:22:00
love a social drink in the right
00:22:01
environment. Um but yeah, no. Um yeah, I
00:22:05
was a pest is probably pest is a warm
00:22:09
that's that word's got warmth. I could
00:22:11
think of other ones, mate. But a pest is
00:22:13
probably a good one. Well, the the
00:22:15
things that you do and the things that
00:22:16
you've got done, you can't you can't do
00:22:18
that if you if you're going to be a a a
00:22:20
bad drinker.
00:22:22
>> No,
00:22:22
>> you just you you can't have it both
00:22:24
ways, especially when you get into your
00:22:25
40s.
00:22:26
>> Yeah, I thought I could, but yeah. No,
00:22:27
it doesn't turn out.
00:22:28
>> So, your your peers at school, what
00:22:30
would they what would they say about you
00:22:32
>> back then?
00:22:33
>> See, that's always that's always
00:22:35
fascinated me. Um, I spoke to a friend
00:22:39
once, not that long ago. IMC his wedding
00:22:42
and he he said that they all talked and
00:22:45
they believed that I'd be the first to
00:22:47
die out of all of our our group. Um just
00:22:50
reckless and um bit of a misfit. Uh and
00:22:55
so that's kind of the only insight I've
00:22:58
got into what they might say. I'd
00:22:59
actually be curious, but I'm not sure I
00:23:01
want to know the answer to be honest.
00:23:03
>> Yeah. I've I've changed so so much over
00:23:07
my lifetime and and I just I I credit
00:23:09
that to you know being they say
00:23:12
vulnerability and courage sits on the
00:23:15
same thread and I think I've been
00:23:16
vulnerable enough to be courageous
00:23:19
enough to to get help when I needed it
00:23:21
many years ago. So I think
00:23:23
>> yeah changed a lot and evolved a lot. So
00:23:25
I'd be curious to know.
00:23:26
>> Yeah. Well um so why the Navy? You you
00:23:28
joined the Navy really early, right?
00:23:30
>> 16.
00:23:30
>> 16.
00:23:31
>> Yeah. which um for someone that's
00:23:34
involved in like youth crime and um is
00:23:36
is you know off the rails. It seems like
00:23:38
a weird did you just know that you
00:23:41
needed help or you needed to to find
00:23:43
discipline and you you hope you'd find
00:23:45
it in the Navy or
00:23:46
>> I think like just a bit the same sort of
00:23:49
thread as I spoke about my mom. I felt
00:23:51
the Navy
00:23:53
was always a a possibility. I didn't
00:23:56
think, you know, I thought
00:23:59
I always felt like a the black sheep,
00:24:02
you know, I really did. I felt like
00:24:03
everybody else was normal and everyone
00:24:05
else was functioning and they had all
00:24:07
the things that a person human being
00:24:09
would need and then there was me. And so
00:24:11
I thought at a long shot, you know, I
00:24:14
might be normal like everybody else if I
00:24:16
can get into the Navy. And so that that
00:24:18
sat in the back of my mind.
00:24:21
Um, and I and I think I I just followed
00:24:23
the organic process. But I think because
00:24:26
my dad was in there and the recruiter
00:24:28
that I met and wrote a RSA, he knew my
00:24:31
dad. So as soon as he saw my last name,
00:24:33
he asked me, "Is your dad in Mil?" And I
00:24:35
said, "Yeah." And I think that held a
00:24:37
bit of weight. But it was back in a time
00:24:40
when you could get in with no school
00:24:41
school qualifications. if you just
00:24:43
wanted to go into the sort of not not
00:24:45
into um to be an ordinary rate type
00:24:48
thing instead of an officer. You didn't
00:24:50
need any school qualifications. I
00:24:51
believe it's a lot different now.
00:24:53
>> What did what did the um what did the
00:24:55
Navy teach you that life hadn't up until
00:24:57
that point?
00:24:58
>> Oh, that is a sensational question. Um,
00:25:00
the honest answer, it it gave me
00:25:04
everything that nurturing and sort of
00:25:08
the nourishment
00:25:10
>> of mom and dad you would normally get.
00:25:12
That's what I got. And I don't mean like
00:25:14
I like like a lot of us in those days in
00:25:17
the early '9s, there was a lot of
00:25:18
bullying, a big really bad bully
00:25:21
culture. So, I was, you know, I wasn't
00:25:22
special. I was I got bullied. Wasn't
00:25:25
particularly tough or big or anything
00:25:27
like that. So, um, but and when I talk
00:25:30
about nourishing and nurturing, like I'd
00:25:32
never been taught how to wash myself.
00:25:34
Like just that memory of going into the
00:25:37
shower cubicles with the instructor and
00:25:39
now I don't know if they do this
00:25:41
nowadays. He's there with a bar of soap.
00:25:43
Like literally like the ABCs of washing
00:25:45
yourself. So you only got 2 minutes on a
00:25:47
frig to get in there, get out. So we get
00:25:49
under here with the bar of soap. We get
00:25:50
the bells and whistles under the junk
00:25:52
and in the backside and then you're out
00:25:53
of there. And I was thinking, no one's
00:25:55
ever shown me how to do that. So you get
00:25:57
under there with this open and so stuff
00:25:59
like that. Like I just
00:26:01
>> That seems that seems barefoot.
00:26:02
>> I know that's like really bad. I'm like
00:26:04
there I am at 16 and what was I doing
00:26:06
before that? I'd hate to think. Um but
00:26:09
yeah, stuff like that and how to make
00:26:10
your bed and and you know standards, you
00:26:13
know, I often remember and I was really
00:26:15
fortunate the instructor I had uh guy
00:26:18
Andrew Fleck. He was great. You know, I
00:26:20
remember him saying, you know, the
00:26:21
standards that you you walk by are the
00:26:23
standards you accept. So,
00:26:24
>> you know, they got to have high
00:26:26
standards and and so just that that
00:26:27
you'd normally get from mom and dad,
00:26:29
>> well, a person could get normally from
00:26:31
mom and dad.
00:26:32
>> Did you immediately sort of thrive in
00:26:33
that environment with structure,
00:26:35
discipline, boundaries?
00:26:36
>> Oh, it was definitely good for me, but I
00:26:38
I had that that that misfit sort of
00:26:42
character like even, you know, jumping
00:26:44
over the fence at the the college over
00:26:46
there. I'm so glad I've been out for a
00:26:48
while. I could probably get away with
00:26:49
sharing the story, but like telling
00:26:50
everybody we're going to church and
00:26:52
we're over the fence at Tarmac and off
00:26:54
to the pub and getting maggodaned and
00:26:56
back over the fence and coming back from
00:26:58
seeing baby Jesus on in the in the
00:27:00
morning like twisted uh you know and I
00:27:03
was the kind of the catalyst and the the
00:27:04
the one encouraging everybody. So I was
00:27:08
running a muck but you know I was
00:27:10
disciplined for that. I I yeah god I was
00:27:13
in trouble all the time. So but it was
00:27:15
good. It it was really good. But I have
00:27:17
no regrets. I have no regrets.
00:27:19
>> What were the best and worst things
00:27:20
about the Navy?
00:27:21
>> Um
00:27:23
the best things for I think for for a
00:27:26
troubled individual like me, you know,
00:27:29
you hear about that uh what do they call
00:27:31
it like um compulsory military service.
00:27:34
Don't quote me on this, but I think some
00:27:36
of the European countries still have it.
00:27:38
Maybe like Sweden or something.
00:27:39
>> I think Singapore does.
00:27:40
>> Oh, do they? Do they? Great. Yeah. So,
00:27:42
I've heard I've heard about it and I
00:27:43
think for an individual like me, Dom, it
00:27:46
was perfect like to iron out some of the
00:27:49
chinks. Um, you know, teach some
00:27:51
standards uh probably not values but
00:27:54
standards, behaviors, you know,
00:27:55
attributes and traits of a decent human
00:27:58
being.
00:27:58
>> Um, and because of the nature of the
00:28:01
environment being a bubble, th those
00:28:04
those traits and you know, actions for
00:28:06
individuals to be decent human beings
00:28:08
that that can be nurtured in that
00:28:10
environment. So what's a good thing it
00:28:13
that like and and that's what I think
00:28:15
gave me a great structure and
00:28:18
fundamentals to to go out in life at my
00:28:21
time in the military the the stuff that
00:28:24
wasn't great or the the inverse of the
00:28:27
good stuff was like the drinking culture
00:28:30
for me at the time I loved it. I fell
00:28:32
straight into it. The power drinking
00:28:34
culture, you know, we were issued two
00:28:36
cans of beer every single day when we
00:28:38
were at sea. like everyone and if you
00:28:40
didn't want your beer, I could have your
00:28:42
beer and stash it in my locker and and
00:28:44
even a generation before me, they used
00:28:47
to issue rum on the flight deck. So at
00:28:49
2:00 every day, you go up and get your
00:28:50
issue of rum and put it in your coffee
00:28:52
cup. And so it was it was nurturing a
00:28:55
power drinking culture of which I loved.
00:28:57
So, you know, getting there's places
00:28:59
I've been overseas. I couldn't even tell
00:29:01
you what happened, where I was, and I
00:29:04
think now like, man, I've been to some
00:29:06
of these countries and I can't remember
00:29:07
anything. I literally can't. And so, um,
00:29:11
yeah, and then they wonder why a lot of
00:29:13
people that had a propensity for
00:29:15
violence or troublem um, like myself, we
00:29:19
just get ourselves in the [ __ ]
00:29:21
>> cuz we're blind drunk all the time. And,
00:29:23
um, so that but I think I think they
00:29:25
have I think they've reframed it.
00:29:26
They've reset. I think there's not much
00:29:28
tolerance for that anymore. Um, which I
00:29:30
think is a good thing.
00:29:32
>> Well, there's never been a I don't think
00:29:33
a better time to be a non-drinker. Yeah.
00:29:35
No, no, no one's No, I don't think
00:29:36
anyone's calling you a [ __ ] anymore.
00:29:38
You know, my wife calls me a [ __ ]
00:29:42
>> It's not for drinking.
00:29:43
>> So, so you you left after 7 years. So,
00:29:45
by 24, you you're done. Why Why did you
00:29:47
leave after 7 years?
00:29:48
>> Oh, your questions. Yeah. I uh
00:29:52
>> Were you made to leave?
00:29:54
>> No. Although I was on my last warning.
00:29:56
Great question. Yeah. I I was literally
00:29:58
on my last warning and they said,
00:29:59
"Anything
00:30:01
anything related to alcohol or drunken,
00:30:04
you know, scraps, you're out." And I was
00:30:06
like, "Ah, okay. This is not ideal." And
00:30:09
the irony, and this is why I asked you
00:30:10
about the police station, the police
00:30:11
station's moved. So, I actually started
00:30:14
um recruiting to go into the police. I
00:30:16
went all the way through all the way
00:30:18
through to the commissioned interview to
00:30:20
become a police officer. And I wanted to
00:30:22
become a police diver.
00:30:25
And even and I don't think I'm speaking
00:30:27
out of turn here. I'm going to get
00:30:28
anybody in trouble. Like even my exams
00:30:30
to go into the police like I felt like
00:30:32
they really wanted me. Like I I still
00:30:35
can't do mathematics and things like
00:30:37
that. And all my grades were like just
00:30:40
passed like to get in the police was
00:30:41
like 50% here 50%. I was thinking how do
00:30:43
I get 50% in a maths test? Never had 50%
00:30:46
in my life. So I felt like they really
00:30:48
wanted me in. Um but
00:30:52
through that process which was maybe
00:30:54
about 9 months and I was doing the work
00:30:56
experience over here at Oakland um CBD
00:31:00
uh I got myself into another drunken
00:31:02
brawl and like I can't fight really to
00:31:04
save myself like I I thought I could.
00:31:07
Um, I was the only one that thought I
00:31:08
could and yeah, got myself arrested and
00:31:12
uh, and I'll never forget having to go I
00:31:14
got the phone call and I was hung over
00:31:16
on a Monday morning and the police
00:31:18
recruiting in Green Lane. I get this
00:31:20
phone call and the recruiter really
00:31:22
liked me like she took me under her
00:31:24
wing, taught me how to type. Um, and I'd
00:31:27
left the Navy in a in an effort to go
00:31:29
into the police and it was looking
00:31:31
certain. Yeah. And I got this phone call
00:31:33
and they said, "Can you come into the
00:31:34
recruiting office?" And I'll never
00:31:37
forget the conversation. I walked in. I
00:31:38
had a girlfriend at the time. She waited
00:31:40
in the car and I'm like, "Oh, I don't
00:31:41
think this is going to be very good,
00:31:42
eh?" But but I meant to go to potty lure
00:31:45
in like a couple of months or whatever
00:31:46
it was to the police college. And she
00:31:48
literally looked at me and she said, "In
00:31:50
all the years of New Zealand policing, I
00:31:52
have never seen this before. Like, you
00:31:54
really are an idiot, aren't you?" That's
00:31:56
what that's what she said. And I thought
00:32:00
she just called me an idiot. And I
00:32:02
remember thinking, "Oh, you are an
00:32:04
idiot, you muppet."
00:32:06
>> And she said, "That's it. Like, you
00:32:08
can't you can't come into the police and
00:32:11
you're out drinking and punching on on
00:32:13
the weekend." I didn't get a criminal
00:32:15
charge in that particular um which is
00:32:17
probably the only benefit of that that
00:32:19
uh particular time. But yeah, I remember
00:32:21
hopping in the car and making up some
00:32:23
[ __ ] story to the girlfriend at the
00:32:25
time who wasn't, you know, long-term
00:32:26
girlfriend, but oh yeah, no, no, no,
00:32:28
everything's good. They just said, you
00:32:29
know, stay out of trouble and, you know,
00:32:31
just some [ __ ] story to save face.
00:32:34
But yeah, that was it. And then I was um
00:32:37
yeah, left left floundering.
00:32:41
>> That's the honest answer.
00:32:43
>> So yeah, so you're 24 then. I'm guessing
00:32:44
this is the beginning of um a downward
00:32:46
spiral cuz I've I've got a quote from
00:32:48
you. Um
00:32:48
>> Oh god.
00:32:50
>> Uh so this was Christmas Eve 2005. So
00:32:53
you're 26 years old. You say, "I was a
00:32:55
whopping 116 kilos, obese, deeply hung
00:32:58
over, emotionally and mentally unhappy,
00:33:01
9 months out of the Navy, disgraced,
00:33:03
depressed, and done."
00:33:04
>> Yeah.
00:33:06
Yeah.
00:33:07
>> So then what?
00:33:10
>> How do you bounce back from that?
00:33:11
>> Yeah. Interesting. Um,
00:33:15
yeah, you said it really well. That's
00:33:16
that that was Yeah, probably the darkest
00:33:19
period of my life. Um, I think a lot of
00:33:22
people would potentially be able to
00:33:25
relate.
00:33:26
>> I just felt like an absolute failure,
00:33:29
like an embarrassment. And I and I truly
00:33:32
was defined by my time in the Navy. And
00:33:35
it was always very proud. Dom like would
00:33:38
go and catch up with mates and go back
00:33:40
home. There'd be a party and people say,
00:33:42
"Oh, what do you do?" Like, "Oh, yeah.
00:33:43
I'm in the Navy. I'm just about to go
00:33:44
under the police. You know, I'm going to
00:33:45
be a police diver." And of course all
00:33:47
the girls were oh and then you know
00:33:49
everybody else it was a real
00:33:50
conversation starter and a discussion
00:33:52
point. Now I had nothing that I wasn't
00:33:55
in my mind as a young, you know, in my
00:33:58
mid20s. I was just an absolute [ __ ]
00:34:01
fight. Like there was no I just felt
00:34:04
like I was a nobody from nowhere. Like
00:34:06
there was no story. There was no, you
00:34:08
know, listen to me, look at me. And I
00:34:11
think because uh my vice being alcohol,
00:34:15
that was an easy way to anesthetize
00:34:19
myself and and uh numb things. And so I
00:34:23
did that like extraordinarily well. Did
00:34:26
a little bit of travel during that time
00:34:28
and I just yeah, you know, ate [ __ ]
00:34:30
steak and kidney pies and beers and
00:34:34
you donuts. I don't know. I just I I
00:34:36
essentially got pregnant on food and
00:34:38
beer. Like I went from 75, which
00:34:40
obviously I'm not meant to get pregnant.
00:34:42
I was like a little brown bubble. I went
00:34:44
from 75 kilos and pretty athletic. like
00:34:48
I was very fit. Um to yeah 116 kilos and
00:34:52
it was my grandfather was the the uh the
00:34:56
fork in the road. He was the one that
00:34:57
called me out on um yeah my behavior and
00:35:01
that and that was probably the the
00:35:03
biggest turning point in my life was
00:35:05
that that that moment with my
00:35:07
grandfather.
00:35:08
>> It's a huge act of love, isn't it?
00:35:11
>> It Yeah. It was dressed up as you know a
00:35:13
smacked ass. Really? Yeah. And and could
00:35:17
I just share a little bit about that?
00:35:19
Yeah.
00:35:19
>> Thank you. Thank you.
00:35:21
>> So I went I had disappeared for 9 months
00:35:23
and as you alluded to I I uh had gotten
00:35:27
swollen and so last time he'd seen me I
00:35:30
was going into the police 75 kilos
00:35:33
athletic you know I was this superstar
00:35:35
grandson that he was very proud of
00:35:38
>> and um I'd come home and I think I might
00:35:40
I get this date wrong. I don't know if
00:35:42
it was his 70th birthday or 75th. So
00:35:44
there's about 20 family members all
00:35:46
gathered and we're out on the farm in
00:35:49
Lake Oerka uh in Rooua out by the blue
00:35:52
and green lakes and we're all sitting at
00:35:54
this table and I came in and he was
00:35:57
already there and I I hadn't seen him
00:35:59
for 9 months and I remember him and he
00:36:01
was he was Scottish. Um, and I remember
00:36:05
him looking up. I'll never forget it.
00:36:08
Like his piercing eyes looking at me and
00:36:10
then he just looked back down.
00:36:13
I was like, "Oh, you know, good day."
00:36:15
type thing. And he just didn't say
00:36:18
anything. And it was that real
00:36:20
artificial conversation. And there's the
00:36:23
big white elephant in the room. Nobody
00:36:24
was saying anything. And I gave him a
00:36:26
bit of a halfass hug. And so the night
00:36:29
carried on and by this stage I'd
00:36:30
probably necked about nine steinstein
00:36:32
grenades. And I remember eating oxtail
00:36:35
stew and there's white bread rolls
00:36:37
everywhere. I'm covered in [ __ ] gravy
00:36:38
and crumbs and [ __ ] and beer. And I was
00:36:41
getting I was halfway to Twisted
00:36:44
Sweating. That was another thing I
00:36:46
remember about being really overweight.
00:36:47
Like sweat dripping down the nose into
00:36:50
my bowl of stew. Didn't matter. Added to
00:36:52
the seasoning. I'm into it. And uh and
00:36:54
like everybody was kind of quiet. No one
00:36:56
was saying anything. And I just heard in
00:36:59
this deep like Scottish accent, "You
00:37:02
look disgusting." And I was like,
00:37:07
"Oh." And I remember thinking in my
00:37:08
mind, "Wonder if he's talking to me.
00:37:12
Wonder if he's talking to me." So I, you
00:37:14
know, of course, take another mouthful.
00:37:16
Why wouldn't I? So I start eating again.
00:37:19
And then he's just like, "You don't even
00:37:22
look like my grandson.
00:37:24
You don't look anything like him. like
00:37:27
you're sweating, having your dinner,
00:37:29
you're covered in crumbs, you're
00:37:30
disgusting. Like what happened to my
00:37:32
grandson? And I just felt like, oh my
00:37:34
god, I'm going to burst into tears.
00:37:38
Another mouthful. And I thought, oh no,
00:37:40
he's definitely talking to me. And I was
00:37:42
thinking about now, I'd love the ground
00:37:45
just to just to like just to take me
00:37:47
away. Like maybe if my heart stops or if
00:37:49
I just faint or something, it'll all be
00:37:51
over. And I remember hopping up because
00:37:54
he didn't stop. He sort of kept going
00:37:56
with the same sort of narrative and
00:37:58
everyone was like my cousins were
00:38:00
starting to get upset and I thought, "Oh
00:38:02
shit." So I started clearing the plates
00:38:04
and the cups and making my way into the
00:38:06
kitchen. I remember getting into the
00:38:08
kitchen just dropping stuff on the table
00:38:11
and I just burst out in in tears. My
00:38:14
stepmom came in, got the old got the old
00:38:17
warm hand on the lower back, the old the
00:38:19
old back rub in the cuddle, and
00:38:23
she said, "Oh, no. He doesn't he doesn't
00:38:24
mean it, Jamie. He just doesn't know how
00:38:26
to, you know, communicate. He just he's
00:38:29
just, you know, he just hasn't seen you
00:38:30
and he's tired. And I couldn't and I
00:38:34
never never forget just think he meant
00:38:36
every single word. Like he meant every
00:38:38
single thing. And so I went I remember
00:38:41
going to bed that night and lying in bed
00:38:45
16
00:38:47
round fella lying in bed. And I remember
00:38:49
thinking, "Ah, that's it. That's it. I'm
00:38:53
I'm going to get up tomorrow morning.
00:38:55
I'm going to run 5ks. I'm back into it.
00:38:57
I hadn't done anything for 9 months. I
00:38:58
was like, "That's it. That's enough. I'm
00:39:00
done. I'm done." And as as sure as that
00:39:04
that memory is, I remember waking up the
00:39:07
next day so hung over. Like a possum had
00:39:09
shattered my mouth. I'm like, "Oh, that
00:39:13
just that rank hangover." I'm like,
00:39:15
"Oh." I was like, "No, go on." Put my
00:39:19
shoes on. I ran 5K. I think that took me
00:39:21
about 2 and 1 half hours, something like
00:39:23
that. I don't know. Went for a run and
00:39:25
mate, I never looked back from that day.
00:39:27
And when you when you talk about love,
00:39:30
it just took me a long time to see it.
00:39:32
But it it really was that like he meant
00:39:35
it. And I think I perhaps wouldn't have
00:39:37
listened if it was anybody else. But
00:39:39
because I loved him so much and had so
00:39:41
much respect for him and as much as it's
00:39:44
stung more than any and still to this
00:39:46
day you talk about Lori Mains I like
00:39:48
that's whilst it's a different context I
00:39:50
think about that
00:39:51
>> not every day but it wouldn't a week
00:39:53
wouldn't go by I don't think about that
00:39:55
moment.
00:39:56
>> What was the catalyst for you becoming
00:39:57
the man you are today? I think it I
00:40:00
think that was I think that really
00:40:02
really was I mean I definitely like I
00:40:04
said I'm very flawed and I make mistakes
00:40:06
and fallible and I you know continued to
00:40:09
do that but just not to the same degree
00:40:12
I think it was from that moment on
00:40:14
>> and I don't know did you ever read Tim
00:40:16
Ferrris's book the I think it was the
00:40:17
4hour work week and he talks about the
00:40:20
harjuku moment the Japanese have a term
00:40:23
the word is harajjuku and it just
00:40:25
basically means a a swift and rapid
00:40:28
change in your path. path you're going
00:40:29
basically you're going left and then
00:40:31
something happens an event or a moment
00:40:34
you completely change direction in a
00:40:37
positive and profound way and your life
00:40:39
is never the same. So that was my juku
00:40:41
moment. I like I firmly believe that.
00:40:43
>> When did your granddad pass away or is
00:40:45
he still around?
00:40:46
>> No, he did pass away um
00:40:49
maybe four years ago. Dom.
00:40:51
>> Right. Oh, so he got to see you do all
00:40:53
this cool [ __ ] He did when I ran when I
00:40:55
ran from Melbourne to the Sunshine
00:40:57
Coast. When I went around Tasmania, he'd
00:40:59
send me little videos uh courtesy of my
00:41:02
uncle. Um so yeah, he was a very proud
00:41:04
man. He got to see the the benefits of
00:41:07
his of his Yeah. sincerity and
00:41:10
authenticity as words.
00:41:11
>> Did he ever apologize for
00:41:13
>> No, definitely not, mate. Holy moly.
00:41:16
Like a spade was a spade, bro. It was
00:41:18
definitely not a shovel or a set of head
00:41:20
strimmers. Yeah.
00:41:22
>> See what he means. means what he says.
00:41:24
>> Oh, I was talking to Liz about it the
00:41:25
other day. I remember saying to him,
00:41:26
"Oh, Grenad, I want to get my ear
00:41:28
pierced." You know, back in the early
00:41:30
90s and I said like, "I'm going to get
00:41:32
one. I'm going to get my birth stone.
00:41:34
You know, the Sagittarius, it's green."
00:41:36
And he said, "Yeah, that's great. You
00:41:37
come home with that and I'll rip it out
00:41:39
of your ears." And sure as [ __ ] that's
00:41:41
exactly what he did.
00:41:42
>> Yeah.
00:41:42
>> Well, what would your So, I'm guessing
00:41:44
that was sort of like your rock bottom
00:41:45
moment, the 116 kilos. There there's
00:41:48
probably people listening to this or
00:41:49
watching this that are at their own
00:41:51
version of rock bottom right now. Like
00:41:53
what would your advice be to them?
00:41:55
>> Um
00:41:56
>> how can you how can you you how can you
00:41:58
turn it around?
00:41:58
>> Yeah.
00:41:59
>> When it might seem impossible or just
00:42:00
too difficult.
00:42:01
>> Yeah. Oh, I definitely remember it being
00:42:03
Mount Everest when I I laughed and joked
00:42:05
about that 5k. I actually think it was
00:42:07
about 2 and a half hours if I'm honest.
00:42:09
Um yeah, does look um I had like a mild
00:42:13
asthma attack. I remember that. And I
00:42:15
went to the Lakescam pharmacy and the
00:42:18
doctor said, "It's cuz you're so big,
00:42:20
buddy. That's why you can't breathe."
00:42:22
And I was like, "Oh my god." Um, so that
00:42:24
was my first experience with asthma.
00:42:26
But, um, it it does look like a
00:42:28
mountain. That did for me. Like, it
00:42:31
really did for some time.
00:42:33
>> But I'm probably a bit more pragmatic
00:42:35
and methodical now, Dom. like especially
00:42:37
with my line of work, I I like to look
00:42:40
at the underlying psychological
00:42:42
mechanisms without getting too much in
00:42:44
childhood trauma and all the the the
00:42:46
undercarriage of everything. And what I
00:42:49
mean by that is
00:42:50
>> I've come to understand that we do
00:42:53
things like that or we we continue
00:42:57
behavior if we get benefits. And it
00:43:00
sounds quite simple and and in theory it
00:43:02
is simple but that sort of introspection
00:43:05
well what are the benefits of eating
00:43:07
three pies a day drinking a dozen beers
00:43:10
you know most people that I've come
00:43:11
across in my work will tell you there's
00:43:13
no benefits
00:43:15
>> but if there was no benefits we'd stop
00:43:17
the behavior. So if we can be brave
00:43:20
enough and so to for your listeners or
00:43:23
people viewing this and I say this like
00:43:24
with so much respect and love because
00:43:27
you know I can speak from experience and
00:43:29
and education that that you know really
00:43:33
look ask yourself the question what are
00:43:35
the benefits am I getting from this and
00:43:37
to give you an example I did this with
00:43:39
alcohol if you ask me how could a how
00:43:41
could if I walked into an AA room now
00:43:43
and said uh I used to go from can't have
00:43:47
a sip
00:43:48
without ending up having a dozen beers
00:43:50
to now socially being responsible
00:43:53
enjoying alcohol no more than three
00:43:55
drinks probably on average one every 3
00:43:58
months they would tell you I'm a liar
00:44:00
like a hand on heart they would tell you
00:44:02
I'm full of [ __ ]
00:44:03
>> but I sit here today because I I listed
00:44:06
200 benefits of why I drank like 200 I
00:44:10
went for a walk in a national park yeah
00:44:13
bit of a weirdo went for a walk in a
00:44:15
national park took me four hours I
00:44:17
listed 200 benefits of alcohol. I came
00:44:19
up with such things as I can speak my
00:44:21
mind. I love music more. I feel
00:44:25
carefree. You know, there's three
00:44:27
benefits. All these little things, some
00:44:28
of them are easy to find. Some of them
00:44:30
actually really difficult. And I think
00:44:31
it's those unconscious, subconscious
00:44:34
benefits are the ones that have got the
00:44:35
hooks in us. And we keep returning and
00:44:38
looping back to behavior. Um, in my
00:44:42
world, in my line of work, it's called
00:44:43
reflective awareness. So being
00:44:45
reflective enough to find all the
00:44:48
benefits and if somebody was struggling
00:44:51
with overeating or they're addicted to
00:44:52
sugar, savory stuff, I don't know, or
00:44:54
all of the above, maybe Tim Tams, you
00:44:56
know, going to Tim Tam Island on a
00:44:58
Friday night, watching Netflix, whole
00:45:00
packet, they're getting benefits. And if
00:45:02
you can highlight the benefits, we can
00:45:04
look to other areas of our life which
00:45:06
will give us the exact same benefit to
00:45:09
the same degree. And that's what I did
00:45:12
with alcohol. I realized there are other
00:45:14
ways in my life I could get the same
00:45:16
benefits that were not related to
00:45:18
alcohol. And that's kind of like the
00:45:20
first thing I would suggest. What are
00:45:22
the benefits you're getting from these
00:45:24
behaviors in your life? Carl Jung, the
00:45:27
like a I'm sure you know Carl Yung,
00:45:29
great psychologist, psychiatrist. He has
00:45:31
a very famous saying, well, he has lots
00:45:33
of them, but one I really like. He said,
00:45:34
"Where your fear lies, so too does your
00:45:36
path." as but the thing is people get a
00:45:39
when they when they figure out what it
00:45:40
is and then we can be afraid
00:45:43
>> to step forward and and you know
00:45:45
challenge our the old paradigm our old
00:45:47
behavior.
00:45:49
>> God I went on a bit mate hopefully.
00:45:50
>> No no no that's good. I'm just um
00:45:53
>> step the um the list of 200 that's a
00:45:56
lot. It's a detailed list
00:45:58
>> mate and it's interesting it's really
00:46:00
hard like initially it was like white
00:46:02
knuckling. It's like mate this is
00:46:04
brutal. I got to about 50 and then all
00:46:06
of a sudden the floodgates open. You
00:46:08
know, you know, there's so much that we
00:46:10
know about ourselves and on the other
00:46:13
side of what we don't know is a mystery.
00:46:16
>> It's literally that. But if we uncover
00:46:17
it, it's like, oh my god, it's like the
00:46:20
unknown.
00:46:21
>> Yeah.
00:46:21
>> Yeah.
00:46:23
>> So, is this this sort of time like in
00:46:24
your late 20s that you sort of fell into
00:46:26
what you're doing now, which is like um
00:46:27
like a personal trainer for the mind and
00:46:29
body, really, isn't it?
00:46:31
>> Yeah. I went down to Canterbury
00:46:33
University and the Christ Church College
00:46:35
of Education. That was kind of the next
00:46:37
step in my my life and I started
00:46:39
studying psychology. Um that was my
00:46:42
first I didn't get a degree then. I [ __ ]
00:46:44
the bed for one of a better term. So
00:46:46
again like love the party the the uni
00:46:49
lifestyle but it was my first exposure
00:46:53
to to the mind and and the enormity of
00:46:56
the mind and all the different theories
00:46:58
and concepts and that I must admit I
00:47:01
reckon that's where the seeds were
00:47:03
planted and they took root. Um
00:47:06
thankfully they've flourished in the
00:47:07
last 10 years but and that was the that
00:47:10
was the the start of it. But I I always
00:47:13
had well not always but I had an
00:47:16
affinity to to fitness and things like
00:47:18
that. And I saw friends of mine were
00:47:20
earning money uh training people and and
00:47:23
things like that. So that that started a
00:47:26
20 year career in the in the fitness
00:47:28
industry of which it's been glorious
00:47:31
like absolutely incredible what I what
00:47:33
I've been able to do and
00:47:36
>> the impact I've been able to make with
00:47:38
other people and not dissimilar to
00:47:40
anybody else in this industry. It's it's
00:47:41
a service-based industry but I think if
00:47:43
people can do it well oh god you can
00:47:46
make such an impact bro and that impact
00:47:48
we we never get to see.
00:47:50
>> Yeah. You know, we really don't. You
00:47:52
know, you change one person's life, it
00:47:54
ripples out to their marriage, to their
00:47:56
children, to their workplace. And this
00:47:57
kind of ecological ripple effect is
00:48:00
really quite incredible. But I mean,
00:48:03
argue we never really get to see those
00:48:05
>> results. Well, yeah. I mean, it's so
00:48:06
gratifying. You're helping people be the
00:48:08
best version of themselves.
00:48:09
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:48:10
>> How much How much of what you do is
00:48:11
physical versus mental?
00:48:14
>> Now, it's probably biased towards the
00:48:16
mental stuff. like a majority of my work
00:48:18
is as a mental performance coach.
00:48:21
>> Um so it's it's probably 75 possibly 80
00:48:25
20 I reckon.
00:48:25
>> Wow.
00:48:26
>> Um but you know own a gym and and um uh
00:48:32
have a a franchise of our facility and
00:48:34
one about to open in Adelaide. So it's
00:48:36
growing
00:48:37
>> but it's a unique model and and um mean
00:48:41
years ago they used to believe you know
00:48:42
the mind and body was separate. you
00:48:44
know, you train the mind over here. You
00:48:45
go and see a psychologist or a therapist
00:48:47
and work on the bells and whistles
00:48:48
upstairs and you go over here to the gym
00:48:50
and you work on the body. But in 2025,
00:48:53
we have a greater understanding that the
00:48:55
and I mean, you know this as a as an
00:48:56
athlete in the endurance sports, it's a
00:48:58
synergy. It's a synthesis of the two. If
00:49:01
you train the mind, you're going to
00:49:03
indirectly affect the body. And if you
00:49:05
train the body, you you know, and I
00:49:07
think runners get that, you know, you
00:49:09
run, you get clarity, you get focus, you
00:49:11
get creative. Um, and it's everything
00:49:14
that's not running is the benefit of
00:49:16
running.
00:49:17
>> That's a No, that's a great
00:49:19
>> explanation. Hold on. Is that Was that
00:49:21
Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:22
>> Yeah, it does.
00:49:23
>> Yeah. Um Oh, so you you ended up going
00:49:27
back into the military. E uh you were
00:49:29
accepted for direct entry to the SAS.
00:49:32
What does that mean?
00:49:33
>> That's right. Yeah. Oh, that's so that's
00:49:35
the high one of the highlights of my
00:49:36
life, Tom. And I love talking about
00:49:38
this.
00:49:38
>> When was this in your 30s?
00:49:40
>> Yeah, I was 37.
00:49:41
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:41
>> You're an old man at this point. So
00:49:43
you've been like 20 20 something years
00:49:45
out of the Navy.
00:49:46
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:47
>> No. Well, no. 15 years. Yeah. 13 years.
00:49:50
13 years. Be close. Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:51
>> Yeah. So, what does what does that mean?
00:49:53
Direct entry to the SAS.
00:49:54
>> Well, what they did is they I don't know
00:49:55
if they do it anymore, but they created
00:49:58
a pathway that um you know, people like
00:50:01
you and I could could have a go at going
00:50:03
into the regiment. Um obviously there's
00:50:06
a lot of hoops to jump through. It's not
00:50:08
quite as simple as if you were in the
00:50:10
regular force.
00:50:11
Um but it is they created a pathway and
00:50:14
I and I a friend of mine who was a
00:50:15
fireman here in Oakuckland. He um I was
00:50:18
working with him with some um training
00:50:20
and stuff online so he could go in and I
00:50:23
remember saying to him, "Mate, what are
00:50:24
they?" cuz I always thought the SAS were
00:50:26
like they were like gods, you know, when
00:50:29
I was in the military and on deployment,
00:50:31
you'd we'd see them come on board the
00:50:33
frigot for a a shower or something like
00:50:35
that, come out of the jungle and and I
00:50:37
just watch them and got to like train
00:50:39
with them a couple of times and I'd be
00:50:41
like, "Wow." Like, "Oh, I could never do
00:50:43
that, you know, like I always wanted to,
00:50:45
but thought, oh no, that's never they'll
00:50:47
never take somebody like me." And um and
00:50:50
I'm working with my mate online and and
00:50:52
then I just thought, wow, that's so
00:50:54
random because he I used to think he's
00:50:56
not that great. Like he's a great bloke,
00:50:58
but I'm thinking, mate, you got more
00:50:59
chance of flying in the air. You're not
00:51:01
going to. And he started to go through
00:51:02
and I thought, oh [ __ ] if he could do
00:51:04
that. Like I wonder if they would. And I
00:51:05
thought, I'm quite old and I got a
00:51:07
business and I've got 742 children. Like
00:51:10
they're not going to they're not going
00:51:11
to take me on board. But one day I
00:51:13
thought I'll send an email. And you
00:51:15
know, you never know. mate, within 24
00:51:18
hours an email came back. Yeah. Like
00:51:20
come to um uh there was like a YMCA, you
00:51:24
know, we just we'll do a fitness test
00:51:25
first, sort of see where you're at
00:51:26
basically if we we'll go on from there.
00:51:29
I thought, wow, they didn't even like
00:51:31
they didn't care that I was 37 or I
00:51:33
would have been 36 then. And so I yeah,
00:51:36
flew over, did the fitness test and
00:51:37
actually did really well. I was in great
00:51:39
shape. And I remember talking to the
00:51:41
recruiter and I said, "Oh, you know, I'm
00:51:43
36. I mean, that's probably the guys are
00:51:46
probably not going to take me. And and I
00:51:48
mean, what he said next stuck with me
00:51:50
forever. He said, "Mate, people in their
00:51:52
late 30s make our best soldiers." He
00:51:55
said, "They're brilliant." He said, "No,
00:51:57
if you cut the mustard." He's like, "You
00:51:59
cut the mustard." I thought, "Oh, mate,
00:52:00
I'm here to cut mustard." So, I'm I've
00:52:03
got the pickle and the corn beef
00:52:04
sandwiches on. I'm here for the mustard.
00:52:06
So over over the next 18 months, I kept
00:52:09
flying backwards and forwards and
00:52:10
jumping through all the hoops that they
00:52:12
were throwing at me um in a in a in an
00:52:16
effort to um go into the regiment. And
00:52:19
um yeah, got exposed to that world over
00:52:21
an 18-month period. And it is it's it's
00:52:24
it's the to be very clear like I never I
00:52:26
never went into the SAS getting to the
00:52:28
point that I did with the recruiting,
00:52:31
you know, is even considered not even
00:52:33
just starting. But the fact that I I you
00:52:35
know, little old me who's a sort of in
00:52:38
my mind then a nobody from nowhere. I I
00:52:40
got a chance to spread some mustard and
00:52:42
and have a go and and I loved it and
00:52:45
they were the New Zealand Defense Force
00:52:46
were brilliant. They were really
00:52:47
supportive and um but it was at the sort
00:52:50
of one of the final interviews where I
00:52:52
realized I couldn't have the two lives
00:52:55
and I hadn't asked that quality question
00:52:57
really early on. In my mind, I thought I
00:53:01
could do 3 months or something with
00:53:03
because somebody told me you you sort of
00:53:06
work in cycles. And I thought, I could
00:53:07
do 3 months at the regiment and then
00:53:09
I'll come home and do 3 months at the
00:53:11
gym with my family. And it was just
00:53:13
like, oh, this is I've arrived. And I
00:53:16
remember just getting laughed at like,
00:53:18
no, that's not that's not how it works.
00:53:20
Like you you're you're on call or you're
00:53:22
in Oakuckland and you know, your life's
00:53:24
pretty much that's it. you're dedicated
00:53:26
to to to the job role.
00:53:29
>> So, I I made the hard decision. They
00:53:30
gave me
00:53:32
>> 24 hours to to decide if I was going to
00:53:35
continue and I decided to yeah to to
00:53:38
continue with my life on the Sunshine
00:53:39
Coast. It's a great conversation that
00:53:41
that caused that change of direction
00:53:43
though with a guy, his name's Ben Ai
00:53:46
Pen, who was a New Zealand Muay Thai
00:53:48
kickboxing coach for about 10 years. I
00:53:50
had a great conversation with him and he
00:53:52
uh encouraged me to to make the decision
00:53:55
to to go back home, go back to the
00:53:57
Sunshine Coast.
00:53:59
>> How's that training? The SAS training.
00:54:02
Do they have like a version of sort of
00:54:03
hell week?
00:54:04
>> Yeah, they they do they have a 9-day
00:54:06
selection process and that's literally
00:54:09
considered like just starting
00:54:12
>> like you're not even you don't even have
00:54:13
a foot in the door as far as I'm aware.
00:54:16
Um, and then you go on to do I think
00:54:18
it's about 18 months to 2 years after
00:54:20
that. The last time I heard I think the
00:54:22
New Zealand government, I mean, they
00:54:24
invest over a million dollars into each
00:54:25
soldier.
00:54:26
>> Wow.
00:54:26
>> So, yeah, which is and it probably be
00:54:28
more now, I'd argue, mate. So, they
00:54:31
>> it's quite indepth and their standards
00:54:32
are very high um around the the fitness
00:54:35
testing and the timings and things like
00:54:37
that. So, um yeah, like I said, as a as
00:54:41
a a mature adult, take that with a grain
00:54:44
of salt. Uh yeah, I cut the mustard for
00:54:46
the very short period that I was
00:54:47
involved with him. Yeah.
00:54:48
>> Oh, well done. Were you like the old man
00:54:50
there?
00:54:50
>> Sorry.
00:54:51
>> Surrounded by Yeah.
00:54:52
>> 100% I was. But I I tell you just like
00:54:55
one little cool thing and like for
00:54:56
people that like this is this again just
00:54:59
a remarkable experience. There was a guy
00:55:02
there, another guy who was a direct
00:55:03
entry and he was an accountant and that
00:55:06
dude looked like a charted accountant.
00:55:08
You know, no disrespect to accountants,
00:55:10
but I could see him in Lyra having an an
00:55:12
almond milk latte on a Saturday on his
00:55:14
bike. He was one of those fellas. But
00:55:16
his story stuck with me forever cuz we
00:55:18
all said like, you know how we had we
00:55:20
had commandos on there, Navy fellas,
00:55:23
army boys, and then there was him and I
00:55:25
and he oh I oh no, there was a prison
00:55:27
warden. He he [ __ ] the bed early on, but
00:55:29
there was an accountant and and me and
00:55:31
we became quite good friends. And we
00:55:33
were talking about how we came about
00:55:35
this journey and his story is just the
00:55:38
best. He said he was in a tower working
00:55:40
at I think it was ASB building. I don't
00:55:42
know if it's there anymore, but late at
00:55:43
night and he's up on the whatever the
00:55:45
20th floor and he's crunching numbers
00:55:46
and counting beans as they do.
00:55:48
>> And he says he was one of the only ones
00:55:50
in the office and the security fellow
00:55:52
was downstairs and the story was just
00:55:54
the best. And he said, "I was sitting
00:55:55
there one night and [ __ ] spreadsheets
00:55:57
and Excel and he's into it and then all
00:56:00
he hears was
00:56:03
this helicopter and he's like,
00:56:06
"Fuck is that?" So he's gone over to the
00:56:08
window and there's just all these dudes
00:56:11
decked out in black like repelling down
00:56:15
the side of a building from a helicopter
00:56:17
and he's like oh like terrorists. So
00:56:20
he's on the phone to the security fell
00:56:22
down say terrorists like or something
00:56:25
someone's attacking the building and the
00:56:26
security gu I didn't know you were here.
00:56:28
No no no no that's the New Zealand army.
00:56:30
That's the army. They're training or
00:56:32
something cuz it's like midnight or
00:56:33
something. And then he said after that
00:56:36
moment, he was like, "Whatever they're
00:56:37
doing, like I want to do that." And and
00:56:40
mate, he was incredible. He smashed us
00:56:43
on the beep test and the pack runs and
00:56:46
everything. And I just I'll never forget
00:56:47
it. Just one night work late and then
00:56:49
he's like, I just whatever they're
00:56:51
doing, I want to do that.
00:56:52
>> It looked like they went
00:56:54
>> Sorry to interrupt. JJ's going to bring
00:56:55
in the water jug.
00:56:57
>> Oh, cool.
00:56:57
>> Yeah,
00:56:59
>> these are great yarns.
00:57:01
>> Hope that's okay.
00:57:02
>> Oh, no, mate. That's awesome. Sorry to
00:57:03
interrupt.
00:57:04
>> No, you're right. We've been going
00:57:05
almost an hour.
00:57:06
>> Wow.
00:57:07
>> It's gone by so quick.
00:57:08
>> Tella, this water is the most incredible
00:57:11
water in Australia.
00:57:13
>> It's so warm in here. Do you want to put
00:57:14
the econ on a little bit?
00:57:15
>> We could do it. Yeah. How's your body
00:57:17
temp?
00:57:17
>> Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm I'm still nervous.
00:57:21
>> Oh, thank you, Jay. So nice.
00:57:24
>> Amazing.
00:57:25
>> That is going to blow cold on you. So,
00:57:28
it might get to a point where you want
00:57:29
to turn it off again. That's why leave
00:57:30
it on. But it's so hot here.
00:57:32
>> Thank you so much.
00:57:37
I hope it's okay, Dom,
00:57:38
>> mate. It's awesome. Oh, thank you. It's
00:57:40
[ __ ] great.
00:57:40
>> Excellent. So excellent.
00:57:42
>> Oh, you're very kind. Thank Thanks, JJ.
00:57:44
>> And don't worry, I'm looking after your
00:57:45
wife.
00:57:45
>> Oh, I was going to say, yeah, she she
00:57:47
calls in. Is she all right? I'm not
00:57:48
running a muck out there.
00:57:49
>> She's enjoying listening to you.
00:57:51
>> She has she learned anything new?
00:57:52
>> Yeah. Yeah, I know. Am I going to get
00:57:54
hung after this? Opening my big mouth.
00:57:56
>> Is that on?
00:57:57
>> I think so.
00:57:58
>> Oh, yeah. I can start feeling a little
00:58:01
little breeze here. Yeah.
00:58:02
>> Okay. Apologies for the interruption.
00:58:04
Sorry about that.
00:58:05
>> Oh, good.
00:58:06
>> Okay.
00:58:10
>> Yep. And we're still rolling.
00:58:11
>> Yeah, we're still rolling.
00:58:13
>> So, do do you think uh you were born
00:58:15
mentally tough or is it something that
00:58:16
you've had to work on and build?
00:58:18
>> Um, another great question, Dom. I I
00:58:21
think it's
00:58:22
I think we have some innate abilities
00:58:26
and I think whilst we we might have a
00:58:30
propensity to have some you know mental
00:58:32
toughness, some resilience, all those
00:58:34
sort of buzzwords, I think it's built I
00:58:37
think I really do mate. Like that's my
00:58:39
honest opinion. Um because I've spent
00:58:42
more time being not mentally tough, you
00:58:45
know? I would consider myself
00:58:49
uh historically like a bit weak to be
00:58:52
honest. Like I had a real sort of um a
00:58:56
bias towards quitting. Like I'd quit a
00:58:58
lot when I was younger. Um
00:59:02
yeah. Yeah. I think and I think over
00:59:04
time I've developed and forged that that
00:59:07
you know what you refer to as mental
00:59:08
toughness. So I think I think it's
00:59:10
developed and built is my is my answer.
00:59:12
That's such a good answer because it it
00:59:14
means um I mean it'd be easy to write it
00:59:16
off if if you said I was born with it,
00:59:17
you'd be like, "Okay, well, I was born
00:59:19
hard like Gogggins." Yeah. No, not not
00:59:22
at all.
00:59:22
>> No, there's, you know, we've mentioned
00:59:23
Gogins a few times, but there there are
00:59:25
a huge amount of parallels between you
00:59:27
and him, not just the um the challenges
00:59:29
and stuff, but you know, um brutal
00:59:31
upbringing,
00:59:32
>> um overweight and depressed.
00:59:35
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:59:36
>> Um and then transformed to the person he
00:59:38
is now. There's like so many parallels.
00:59:40
Yeah, I agree. And and you know,
00:59:42
similar, he was in the Navy, I was in
00:59:43
the Navy. Um, and look, I do draw a lot
00:59:46
of parallels from him. I I wasn't a big
00:59:49
fan initially, but I think that was
00:59:50
probably a little bit of tall Poppy
00:59:52
being a bit of a wanker to be honest.
00:59:54
And I think if I look now,
00:59:56
>> um, I think he really is quite quite
00:59:58
inspirational. I would argue it'd be
01:00:00
difficult to maintain, you know, is that
01:00:04
character, that persona, how he is, you
01:00:06
know, off camera and things like that.
01:00:07
It would be so hard to walk around like
01:00:09
stay hard, be hard like all the time
01:00:12
like in in the in the in the dairy down
01:00:14
at the IG at the coals get hard. It's
01:00:16
like well really I don't know I I nearly
01:00:19
raced against him in Hawaii actually. I
01:00:21
don't know if you've ever heard of the
01:00:22
Hurt 100
01:00:23
>> um gnarly trail ultramarathon and he was
01:00:26
meant to race. I was so excited like
01:00:29
nervous and you know anxious but I was
01:00:31
so excited. I thought oh man if I beat
01:00:33
him my god. Um and he was there but he
01:00:35
was injured but he came to the um the
01:00:38
race brief and stuff. I felt sorry for
01:00:40
him. He got swamped. People just and I I
01:00:44
totally get it. I stayed away and just
01:00:46
sort of watched and observed the Enigma.
01:00:49
But yeah, I was gutted. I wanted to race
01:00:51
against him.
01:00:52
>> He he he doesn't seem to have good um um
01:00:55
life balance. like he just he just seems
01:00:58
to be training all the time
01:01:00
>> and just making his life as unpleasant
01:01:02
and as uncomfortable as possible.
01:01:04
>> And it's like yeah, he seeks the
01:01:05
inconvenience, the the the discomfort,
01:01:08
you know, the adversity. But look, I I I
01:01:11
get it. Like I I I oddly understand it.
01:01:14
Like I really do. I part of me
01:01:16
sympathizes and and um and I'm very
01:01:20
compassionate, you know, to to what he's
01:01:22
doing. You know, I understood a while
01:01:24
ago that compassion means to suffer
01:01:27
together.
01:01:28
>> You know, passion is a French word.
01:01:29
Passion means to suffer. And if I am
01:01:32
compassionate
01:01:33
>> or or like if I'm passionate about
01:01:35
running, it means like I'm I love to
01:01:37
suffer when I run.
01:01:38
>> Um but if I'm compassionate, I'll I'll
01:01:41
suffer with you. So I think, you know, I
01:01:43
am compassionate to what David Gogggins
01:01:44
does and his message cuz I think
01:01:47
>> on a much grander and exaggerated scale,
01:01:50
he he impacts a lot of people in a
01:01:52
positive way. I mean, he probably got
01:01:54
equal amount of haters and stuff like
01:01:55
that, but I would say that's probably a
01:01:57
good thing.
01:01:59
>> Yeah. I I I say to people, the only way
01:02:01
you can avoid um having haters is is to
01:02:03
do nothing. Do nothing, say nothing.
01:02:06
>> That's right. Yeah. It's much harder to
01:02:08
be the the man in the arena, isn't it?
01:02:10
>> Oh, so so true. And I suppose people
01:02:13
love that critical stance or some people
01:02:15
do, you know, but essentially it's, you
01:02:17
know, I'm not religious and I'm not
01:02:19
biblical, but I I love that little
01:02:22
quote. I remember it from from school,
01:02:23
but it was like, you know, let he who
01:02:25
cast the first stone be without sin.
01:02:27
>> It's like people are judging others, but
01:02:30
I mean ultimately they're judging
01:02:31
themselves or the part of themselves
01:02:32
they dislike, but it's easy to throw
01:02:34
some [ __ ] at old mate who's in the arena
01:02:36
flogging his guts out.
01:02:38
>> Well, I'm such a wanker. Maybe.
01:02:40
>> Well, someone someone online saying,
01:02:42
"Oh, oh, yeah, Jamie's a flog. He didn't
01:02:44
break the world record for the most
01:02:45
press ups." It's like, "Well, what have
01:02:46
you done?
01:02:47
>> What have you been doing for the last 12
01:02:48
months?
01:02:49
>> Just let me know how many push-up Oh, it
01:02:51
was funny. One of my old instructors,
01:02:53
uh, he was an instructor at the Navy
01:02:54
diving school, and I remember having a
01:02:56
go at the Navy dive course the first
01:02:57
time. I couldn't even do one pull-up. I
01:03:00
had this fantasy in my mind that I just
01:03:02
rock up and do the required pull-ups,
01:03:04
which I think at that stage is maybe
01:03:05
like eight or 10 or something. I didn't
01:03:07
even do one. And I remember doing like
01:03:08
the legs going like this trying to get
01:03:10
up there. And all I got was, "Oh yeah,
01:03:12
fat boy. Don't, you know, don't dare get
01:03:14
your chin over the bar and then, you
01:03:15
know, piss off. Go back to the chef's
01:03:17
school." I was like, "Ah." And then when
01:03:18
I got the when I did 4,267,
01:03:21
cuz we're relatively good friends now, I
01:03:23
I messaged him on Facebook. I said, "Oh,
01:03:25
old fat boy doesn't do too bad
01:03:26
nowadays." E
01:03:29
old steady and the breeze couldn't get
01:03:31
any back then. But I said, "I tell you
01:03:33
what, I get a few now."
01:03:34
>> Yeah. Funny.
01:03:35
>> So what what about resilience?
01:03:37
Resilience is a big sort of buzz word
01:03:38
these days and um everyone's um aware of
01:03:41
the importance of it. Um is it something
01:03:43
that we can only learn through suffering
01:03:45
or is there some other way it can be it
01:03:46
can be built?
01:03:48
>> Yeah. Again I think I think that that
01:03:50
compound effect is really helpful with
01:03:52
this. You know I think brick by brick
01:03:54
experience by experience
01:03:57
>> uh builds without sounding too cliche a
01:03:59
bit of a wall of resilience you know or
01:04:01
an igloo if you want to build an igloo.
01:04:03
I don't know. But I think I think it is
01:04:05
block by block, you know, experience by
01:04:07
experience. Uh I can't remember her name
01:04:10
off the top of my head. Uh but she was
01:04:13
the New Zealand SAS uh psychologist.
01:04:17
>> Oh yeah, I know you mean. I did an event
01:04:19
with her in Christ Church the other
01:04:20
week.
01:04:20
>> Yeah.
01:04:21
>> She's married to Jamie Panel, former
01:04:23
guy.
01:04:23
>> That's right. That's right. I read her
01:04:25
book and um and I apologize for not
01:04:27
remembering her name. Um oh, it's on the
01:04:29
tip of my tongue. Anyway, I mean, she
01:04:30
she shares an insight about resilience
01:04:34
and, you know, I think I think there's
01:04:35
lots of different definitions, but she
01:04:37
said it's, you know, basically one's
01:04:39
ability to focus on the the main thing
01:04:43
before you get to an opportunity to
01:04:44
focus on what is considered the main
01:04:46
thing. So, if you think about marathon
01:04:48
running, if you're prepping for, you
01:04:50
know, one of these big marathon events,
01:04:52
it's focusing on the main thing, which
01:04:54
would be your your running, your, you
01:04:56
know, sleep, hydration, nutrition. and
01:04:58
that would be considered the main thing
01:05:01
before being able to focus on the main
01:05:03
thing which is the marathon.
01:05:04
>> And so I think that's quite a whilst it
01:05:06
sounds a little complex, I think it's
01:05:08
also quite a simple um definition or
01:05:12
like anything in the psychological
01:05:13
world, they're all theories, ideas, and
01:05:15
concepts. Like it's very hard to find
01:05:17
tangible definitions of things. But I I
01:05:19
I think that's essentially it. I've come
01:05:23
to understand that mental toughness,
01:05:24
which is similar to resilience, is about
01:05:27
one's ability to stay focused.
01:05:29
>> That's it. Like, it's such a simple
01:05:31
definition, but so difficult in
01:05:34
application. Like, you think in 2025,
01:05:37
everything's fighting for our attention.
01:05:40
You know, it's if it's not, you know,
01:05:41
social media and the digital platforms
01:05:44
and, you know, glorious and great and
01:05:46
powerful podcasts like this one,
01:05:48
everything's trying to grab our
01:05:49
attention. And the mentally tough ones
01:05:52
have the ability to mitigate that and
01:05:53
stay focused.
01:05:55
>> And I mean, humans can only focus for
01:05:57
about 9 seconds at the moment, you know,
01:05:59
science tells us, which is worse than a
01:06:00
goldfish. So, if you can be mentally
01:06:03
tough and resilient and stay focused,
01:06:05
you know, that's a competitive
01:06:06
advantage. That is literally a
01:06:08
competitive advantage.
01:06:10
>> I've I've heard you um and other
01:06:12
podcasts talk about um the unbreakable
01:06:14
mind.
01:06:15
>> Yeah.
01:06:15
>> Um Yeah. What daily habits, you know,
01:06:18
keep Yeah. keep that alive for you?
01:06:20
Uh, are there any non-negotiables on a
01:06:24
daily basis? I
01:06:24
>> feel like I'm getting myself in the [ __ ]
01:06:26
here with all these quotes in there. I
01:06:27
have an unbreakable mind. Meanwhile, I'm
01:06:29
I'm a mess. You're not a mess. In all
01:06:32
honesty, it's it is what you just said
01:06:35
then. I I love that, mate. I can't
01:06:37
credit this to anybody, and it's still
01:06:38
in my head. And um so I apologize if I'm
01:06:41
stealing somebody's quote uh and I'm not
01:06:43
referencing them but you know we don't
01:06:45
rise to the level of our goals. We fall
01:06:48
to the level of our daily protocols and
01:06:50
habits. So you can set any type of goal.
01:06:52
I say I'm going to have the most
01:06:54
resilient mind. I've got an indomitable
01:06:56
will. I've got a tenacious resolve. I'm
01:06:58
unbreakable. I'm you know all these
01:07:01
wonderful cliche things. But that's
01:07:04
easy. I'm going to make a million
01:07:06
dollars. Easy. you know, I'm going to
01:07:09
have a property portfolio. I'm going to
01:07:10
run a marathon. So easy. But it's the
01:07:13
daily protocols and habits that move the
01:07:16
needle from possibility to probability.
01:07:20
And so in answer to your question, it
01:07:22
really is daily practice. Like I I do
01:07:26
breath work almost every day. It' be
01:07:28
like 99% of the time. And that's kind of
01:07:31
my meditative practice. Do it for 20
01:07:33
minutes. I reflect every day. every
01:07:36
client interaction I have and even quite
01:07:38
possibly this podcast I'll reflect um I
01:07:41
think it was Socrates that said you know
01:07:43
a life not reflected on is a life not
01:07:45
worth living
01:07:46
>> and I've found great great like um
01:07:50
wisdom and power and insight and daily
01:07:52
reflection you know what went well what
01:07:54
didn't go well you know what can I do
01:07:56
better next time what what you know if
01:07:58
if I did do something good how can I do
01:08:00
that even better next time where have I
01:08:03
experienced this before um So this
01:08:06
reflection has really helped me to I
01:08:10
suppose have a mindset that's much
01:08:12
stronger than my emotions and I think
01:08:14
that's really important. I think it was
01:08:16
Tiger Woods who said emotions are really
01:08:17
great except when you play golf. It's
01:08:20
like Warren Buffett said emotions are
01:08:21
great except with money. And I'm like
01:08:23
yeah like emotions we can't run away
01:08:25
from them. We we we surge with them.
01:08:28
Like I'm a highly emotive creature.
01:08:30
[ __ ] cry if the wind changes
01:08:31
direction. But it's it's having a
01:08:34
mindset that's more dominant than the
01:08:36
emotions to keep them level to keep them
01:08:38
regulated.
01:08:39
>> Uh not to be a robot but just to have a
01:08:41
bit more governance and you know don't
01:08:43
do dumb things when we get emotion.
01:08:45
>> This reflection piece is that is that
01:08:46
written or is just something internally?
01:08:48
>> I definitely write it. If if it's if we
01:08:50
don't write it we forget it and that's
01:08:52
the best way I could explain it. So and
01:08:55
I um I do that regularly. Like it's a
01:08:58
massive part of my life without sounding
01:09:00
like a complete wanker. My wife and I
01:09:02
once a week we we we reflect on our
01:09:06
marriage and on our business and it's
01:09:08
brilliant. It's like what's working
01:09:09
well, you know, what's not working well?
01:09:12
Um what went well? What worked well? Uh
01:09:15
sorry, what didn't work well? So ask
01:09:17
about five questions and it's great cuz
01:09:19
we'll be like, you know, we're not
01:09:20
talking. We're not, you know, having
01:09:23
intimacy. We're not going out. We're
01:09:25
not, you know, we it's just all work or
01:09:27
we and then it's like, okay, so next
01:09:28
week let's do a little better. Let's
01:09:30
schedule something. It's um so yeah, it
01:09:33
it I find it really helpful.
01:09:34
>> Yeah.
01:09:35
>> And it makes sense like the the grass
01:09:36
grows where you water it.
01:09:37
>> 100% beautifully said. Yeah. And and I
01:09:40
think you're right where we where we
01:09:41
throw that attention that's what we're
01:09:42
going to experience. So
01:09:44
>> So when you're at breaking point like
01:09:46
whether it's a 20, you know, hour 20 of
01:09:49
some world record attempt or a bad day
01:09:51
in life like is there specific selft
01:09:54
talk or strategy that gets you through?
01:09:56
>> Yeah. Like gin and tonic and stuff. No,
01:09:58
no, no, no, no, no.
01:10:00
>> There's the old Jamie.
01:10:01
>> There was the old Oh my god, that was a
01:10:03
salty sea dog Jamie. No, no, he didn't
01:10:05
do that anymore. Um,
01:10:08
>> sorry dog. I went off on the wrong path.
01:10:11
>> So, what was that like?
01:10:12
>> Well, when when when you're struggling
01:10:13
whether it's like in the middle of a
01:10:15
physical challenge like a, you know,
01:10:17
pull-up world record attempt or a 100k
01:10:19
run or whether it's just like a bad day
01:10:21
in business, like is there like a
01:10:23
strategy or selft talk that gets you
01:10:25
through?
01:10:25
>> Oh, great question. I I've learned in my
01:10:28
experience um and you you probably
01:10:30
talked to this so well uh with your with
01:10:33
your um running experience and stuff Dom
01:10:35
the business but the the I think it's a
01:10:38
it's
01:10:40
it's a whole heap of everything I've
01:10:43
come to learn that it's it's like having
01:10:45
a backpack like a little bit m like
01:10:47
Dora's mate whatever that was it Diego
01:10:50
Diego
01:10:51
>> Dora the explorer
01:10:52
>> yeah like yeah like the marry version um
01:10:55
a little backpack of resources and tools
01:10:58
cuz I think things work until they
01:11:00
don't. You know, if you do I've, you
01:11:02
know, as I alluded to earlier, the
01:11:04
longest,
01:11:06
excuse me, event I ever did was 18 days
01:11:10
or basically 80ks a day for 18 days. And
01:11:15
mate, like, you know, music might work
01:11:17
for a little bit. I'd have Johnny Cash
01:11:19
cranking, bit of Neil Young, bit of Pink
01:11:22
Floyd, just loving it. And next minute
01:11:23
I'm hating it. It's like, all right,
01:11:25
I've got to find something else. Um, and
01:11:27
I get all the fluffy performance
01:11:29
psychology things and um, but I think
01:11:33
ultimately if I could narrow it down to
01:11:36
one reliable and dependable tool when
01:11:40
when like the quitting narrative starts
01:11:42
or the the stinking thinking or the
01:11:44
shitty committee or however people want
01:11:46
to the gremlins or the demons on their
01:11:48
shoulder. I think being in the moment is
01:11:51
really helpful, you know, and asking
01:11:53
ourselves, you know, be where my feet
01:11:55
are. Like where are my feet right now?
01:11:57
Like being right there. Cuz I can't be
01:11:59
in the future thinking about how [ __ ]
01:12:00
this is and I've still got 100ks to run.
01:12:03
I can't be in the past ruminate
01:12:05
ruminating about the dumb [ __ ] I did as
01:12:06
a kid and the people I've hurt or but if
01:12:09
I'm where my feet are right now, I'm
01:12:12
right here. So I'm right here and then I
01:12:14
can win each moment at a time. And
01:12:17
sometimes, you know, when it's really
01:12:20
difficult, you know, whether the kids
01:12:21
are playing up or something's critical
01:12:25
in business and a decision's got to be
01:12:27
made, you know, being right there and
01:12:29
think, I've just got to win this next
01:12:31
moment. And sometimes like with the
01:12:33
pull-ups, you know, when you're doing
01:12:34
pull-ups every minute on the minute for
01:12:37
24 hours or doing burpees every minute,
01:12:39
on the minute for 24 hours, it's I've
01:12:42
just got to win this next moment cuz
01:12:44
quitting
01:12:46
>> happens in 1 second. And I've quit so
01:12:48
many times, Dom, and and it and
01:12:50
interestingly enough, you know, science
01:12:52
shows us people and I can speak to this
01:12:56
from experience. I can quit on
01:12:57
something, five minutes later, I'm good
01:13:00
to go again. But it that happened in one
01:13:02
second. Oh, I'm done. I'm done. I'm
01:13:04
done. I'm done. I just need to lie down.
01:13:05
You know, my knees, my shoulder, my
01:13:07
[ __ ] prostate, like whatever. Like, I
01:13:09
just maybe not prostate, but um you
01:13:12
know, I'm done. And then 5 minutes
01:13:13
later, it's like ah I could go again,
01:13:17
but it's too late. You know, you've lost
01:13:18
the moment. And so sometimes being
01:13:21
really present and and saying like be
01:13:23
where my feet are right now gives me an
01:13:26
opportunity to say, I've just got to win
01:13:27
this 1 second moment. That's it. And
01:13:29
sometimes that's literally what it is
01:13:31
for an alcoholic, a drug addict. It's
01:13:33
like be be where your feet are.
01:13:36
>> You going to drink that beer or are you
01:13:38
going to, you know, we're going to just
01:13:39
quickly knock it off the shelf or tip it
01:13:41
down the the sink, you know, win win
01:13:44
that moment.
01:13:45
>> You know, re reframe it, reset it and
01:13:47
go.
01:13:48
>> Yeah,
01:13:49
>> that's such good advice.
01:13:50
>> Oh, thanks, Tom.
01:13:51
>> That's that's really
01:13:52
>> I wrote that down on my hand, mate. For
01:13:54
an occasion such as this,
01:13:55
>> how how do you um how do you feel after
01:13:57
you quit?
01:13:59
the days and weeks afterwards.
01:14:00
>> Ah, awful. Awful. Yeah. Like really
01:14:04
awful.
01:14:04
>> Like like like just shame or internal
01:14:07
anger or
01:14:09
>> Yeah. I think it's all of those things.
01:14:10
I I don't deal with it well at all. One
01:14:13
of the most difficult ones we I don't
01:14:15
know if you're familiar with the
01:14:16
CrossFit world, Dom, there's um I mean
01:14:19
there's a whole heap of sort of they
01:14:20
call them wads and workouts and things
01:14:22
like that. They have a series of
01:14:24
workouts called a hero workout and
01:14:25
they're they're historically like really
01:14:28
difficult. And there's one called Murf
01:14:30
and it's a memoriam workout to a um a
01:14:33
Navy Seal who was killed. And so the
01:14:37
workout consists of a onem run and you
01:14:39
do 100 pull-ups, 200 push-ups, 300
01:14:42
squats, and then finish with a onem run.
01:14:44
And you do that with a weighted vest
01:14:45
like what you were talking about before.
01:14:47
I think it's weighted at just shy of 10
01:14:48
kilos. So it's about 9 kilos or
01:14:50
something like that. Um, generally a
01:14:54
normal person will get that done in
01:14:56
about an hour. You know, elite
01:14:58
individuals will be anywhere from 40
01:14:59
minutes to an hour. And me and a really
01:15:02
good friend of mine did um the Murf
01:15:05
workout for 24 hours non-stop,
01:15:09
of which my friend my friend got the
01:15:12
world record. But back on the Sunshine
01:15:14
Coast, excuse me, uh I was kind of
01:15:18
identified and referred to as Yeah. like
01:15:20
the the the Kiwi version of David
01:15:22
Gogggins. And so in the media I was
01:15:25
getting this little bit of exposure.
01:15:28
Jamie's going to break the oh he's going
01:15:30
for this and he's raising money and like
01:15:31
I loved it. I was like yeah that's right
01:15:34
pop the spotlight if you don't mind and
01:15:36
just adjusting the spotlight on me and
01:15:38
my mate was really humble and he just
01:15:41
you know he just came along. We trained
01:15:43
together. Um really humble man actually
01:15:46
beautiful salt of the earth fell and um
01:15:50
about halfway through it, short of a
01:15:52
long story, I was just cramping
01:15:54
everywhere. We trained so well together.
01:15:56
We were I would argue he was fitter and
01:15:59
and more talented than me. Um and I was
01:16:02
kind of riding his coattails and I'd
01:16:04
identified I was like, man, he's doing
01:16:06
really well, this guy Russ. Um, but I
01:16:08
still well and truly thought I had it in
01:16:10
the bank. And just over about halfway, I
01:16:13
was just a cramping mess from my quads
01:16:16
to my chest and eyelashes. Like
01:16:18
everything was cramping. And and I got
01:16:20
to about 12 of these Murfs. So we done
01:16:23
12 of them and I pulled the pin and I
01:16:26
cuz I started falling behind Russ and I
01:16:28
was actually starting to hold him up and
01:16:30
he was sort of hanging back to support
01:16:33
me. Um, which was beautiful. like I was
01:16:36
just like such a great guy um to do it
01:16:39
together, you know, he was about the Wii
01:16:40
and not the me, whereas I was
01:16:42
unfortunately a bit more about the me
01:16:43
and less the Wii, which was a learning
01:16:45
for me.
01:16:46
>> And um I quit and ended up on the
01:16:49
massage table and I was all dramatic and
01:16:52
you know, and he carried on and it was
01:16:55
one of the greatest displays of
01:16:57
athleticism, Dom, I've ever seen. Like I
01:17:00
I shared with you what one Murph is and
01:17:02
he did something like 21 of them back to
01:17:06
back and the last one and it ended up
01:17:08
being like 60ks of running um you know
01:17:11
whatever a few thousand pull-ups and you
01:17:13
know thousands of push-ups, thousands of
01:17:16
squats and he looked the same on the
01:17:18
last round as he did at the first and he
01:17:23
120% deserved all the accolades. that
01:17:27
particular, you know, quitting
01:17:30
experience was horrible because I stayed
01:17:33
for the rest of the event and watched
01:17:34
him
01:17:35
>> um take the spoils and he deserved them.
01:17:38
He did so well.
01:17:39
>> What did you learn about yourself?
01:17:40
>> Well, good question. Um
01:17:44
I what did I learn?
01:17:46
I learned that those experiences were
01:17:50
such a potent learning environment
01:17:53
>> to I mean people might argue and maybe I
01:17:57
sort of spoke bad about myself just
01:17:59
then. I I I do have a great level of
01:18:02
humility but I perhaps could have had a
01:18:04
bit more um as well. And uh I I think I
01:18:09
did well to stay. Um again I I actually
01:18:12
didn't want to stay. I was like I got to
01:18:14
get out of here. And and I think it was
01:18:15
my wife that said, "You can't do that.
01:18:17
>> This is this is your punishment."
01:18:19
>> Yeah. Yeah. You will sit down and you
01:18:21
will do as you're told and you will
01:18:23
watch.
01:18:24
>> Think about what you want.
01:18:25
>> Yeah. You think about your actions,
01:18:26
young man. Yeah. You got to be careful
01:18:28
what you wish for. So um so yeah, I
01:18:30
think that was a real eye opener to to
01:18:33
really embrace those opportunities cuz
01:18:36
Yeah. I mean, if you're not if we're not
01:18:37
learning
01:18:39
>> um we're too comfortable.
01:18:41
>> Yeah.
01:18:42
>> What um what are you doing next? Oh,
01:18:44
great question.
01:18:46
>> You're you're going to think that that
01:18:48
um so you've created a rod for your own
01:18:50
back and that you've done all these
01:18:51
things. So I suppose people are always
01:18:52
asking you what's next. Yeah.
01:18:54
>> So there which creates a bit of pressure
01:18:55
for you that you you need a what's next?
01:18:58
>> Yeah, 100%. Look, I I I have this
01:19:01
delicate um dance between, you know, my
01:19:04
body failing me. I heard you talk about
01:19:07
your knees. I was thinking, "Oh god,
01:19:08
yeah, I'm singing from the same song
01:19:10
sheet." Like the the the specialist told
01:19:12
me the other day, he said, "Oh, yeah,
01:19:13
definitely a full knee reconstruction."
01:19:15
He put or she put an X-ray of an
01:19:18
80-year-old's knee and then got mine. I
01:19:20
went, "Do you see any difference?" And I
01:19:22
said, "No." I said, "Do they my knees?"
01:19:24
And he said, "No, they're not your
01:19:26
knees." He said, "That's your knee and
01:19:27
that's old mate's knee." Whoever old
01:19:29
mate is. And I was like, "Ah, that's not
01:19:31
great." So uh I run with a really bad
01:19:34
knee and um just had my first quarter
01:19:37
cortisone actually in my hip which was
01:19:39
that was character building. Um so yeah
01:19:42
I just managed the discomfort but I I
01:19:44
don't think it will stop me. It's just a
01:19:45
case of yeah just managing discomfort
01:19:47
really but running 400 km
01:19:50
in 5 days. Uh so basically two marathons
01:19:54
a day for 5 days with four friends of
01:19:56
mine
01:19:57
>> uh for a a charity back on the Sunshine
01:20:00
Coast. We run from uh Warana on the
01:20:02
Sunshine Coast to Agnes Water um in the
01:20:06
middle of summer. So that's about 5
01:20:08
weeks from today. So haven't run for a
01:20:11
couple of years. I've just sort of
01:20:12
pumped weights and eating chicken and
01:20:14
broccoli and almonds and trying to get
01:20:17
massive and strong and so yeah, running
01:20:19
around like a small block of apartments
01:20:20
is not great, mate. It's quite hard.
01:20:22
>> Yeah. What do you weigh?
01:20:23
>> Oh, I'm just shy of 90. So about 80 86,
01:20:27
I think. Yeah.
01:20:28
>> Yeah. But yeah, it's like a small block
01:20:29
of flats, mate. I don't look like a
01:20:31
runner at all. I'm an ultramarathon
01:20:33
runners. It's like Yeah, you are, aren't
01:20:34
you? What would you say your best and
01:20:36
worst habits are?
01:20:38
>> Oh, best and worst habits.
01:20:42
Um,
01:20:44
best is
01:20:49
like manners. I think I'm very polite.
01:20:53
I'm very respectful.
01:20:55
Um, you know, as my nanny used to say,
01:20:57
manners maketh the man.
01:20:58
>> Mhm.
01:20:59
>> Um, still to this day, you know, I, you
01:21:01
know, open doors for ladies. I, you
01:21:04
know, all those basic things I think a
01:21:05
lot of us were taught. So, I was
01:21:07
fortunate to get taught that really
01:21:09
early on. And manners just interactions
01:21:12
with people,
01:21:13
>> you know, whether it's at the bank or at
01:21:15
the supermarket, you know, I think goes
01:21:16
a long way. So, I think that's probably,
01:21:18
you know, and couple that with a little
01:21:20
bit of warmth. I'm generally a sort of
01:21:21
warm creature.
01:21:23
>> Uh, bad habits. I still have uh I've got
01:21:27
the the sort of the complimentary
01:21:29
opposite to that. So I you know in very
01:21:32
extreme cases I probably get a little
01:21:35
angry too swiftly and I I don't like
01:21:39
that and so I work quite hard on that.
01:21:41
I've come to understand with my studies.
01:21:43
I'm back at university as well for the
01:21:45
last few years, but studying behavioral
01:21:47
science. I understand that we've got,
01:21:49
you know, unconscious and subconscious
01:21:51
patterns of behavior and thinking. Um,
01:21:53
and they tend to rear their ugly head at
01:21:55
the worst of times. It's not when you're
01:21:57
feeling good and you've had a sleep in
01:21:58
and you've eaten well and you've
01:22:00
exercised, then you're feeling positive.
01:22:01
It's actually the the opposite of that.
01:22:03
So when we're running rough and we're
01:22:05
overwhelmed and stressed and agitated
01:22:07
and discontent, these unconscious
01:22:10
patterns will come up. And so, you know,
01:22:12
things like best way I could explain is
01:22:14
like road rage and stuff like that. Like
01:22:15
I'll wind the window down and toot the
01:22:17
horn and abuse some poor innocent person
01:22:20
for just going about their day. But
01:22:22
that's like without sounding like a
01:22:23
proper like um substandard human. That
01:22:26
is like so rare. Like once every 6
01:22:28
months, but I I don't like that. I want
01:22:31
to go through the world and just be
01:22:33
gentle and and enjoy the world.
01:22:35
>> Yeah.
01:22:35
>> Yeah. You've hit the nail on the head.
01:22:37
I'm exactly the same. Like if I if I
01:22:39
lose it at someone, it's more about me
01:22:41
than them in every single case.
01:22:43
>> 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
01:22:46
>> Yeah. No, that's Yeah, that's me in a
01:22:48
nutshell. Dom,
01:22:49
>> is there a what if that keeps you up at
01:22:50
night?
01:22:52
>> Do are are you good at parking things
01:22:54
and moving on or
01:22:55
>> mate? Are you a mind reader as well as a
01:22:58
as a magnificent man? Jesus. I literally
01:23:01
had this conversation with the wife this
01:23:03
morning in the hotel at Ridges. Ridges
01:23:05
is really nice, actually. It's a great
01:23:06
hotel, but I was like, "Oh, for the life
01:23:09
of me." Like, I I like I said, and I'll
01:23:13
be honest, I said to you, I was really
01:23:14
nervous coming in here, and I, you know,
01:23:16
I know know of you. I listened to you
01:23:19
for many years, mate, and and I've seen
01:23:21
your guests and I just, you know, I I
01:23:24
just I felt like the the like, you know,
01:23:26
it's a real honor to be here and and and
01:23:29
a privilege to to to spend time with
01:23:31
you, Dom, and have a great conversation,
01:23:33
I think. But
01:23:34
>> in my head, I'm like, I'm a nobody from
01:23:37
nowhere, you know? I still have these
01:23:39
and mate, I've had it the whole time
01:23:41
I've been in New Zealand. I haven't
01:23:43
slept well the last few nights cuz I've
01:23:46
been in my head going, you know, I am
01:23:47
really truly am nothing special. And
01:23:49
mate, bless my wife, bro. She said,
01:23:52
"Yeah, you're not anything special,
01:23:54
Jamie." That's why she actually she's
01:23:57
malt. She's a wag. She's harsh. You
01:23:59
know, the old cash the old cashard
01:24:03
cash. Yeah. In a in a in a bag of
01:24:06
lemons. No, she um she said, "You're not
01:24:09
anything special. your story isn't
01:24:11
anything special. Like people have had
01:24:13
hardships. And I thought, "Oh jeez,
01:24:15
you're harsh girl." As I was brushing my
01:24:17
teeth and then she said, "It's what
01:24:19
you're doing now that is what makes you
01:24:22
special." So, you know, and and Dom's
01:24:24
having you on the podcast because of
01:24:25
that, not because of your story or who
01:24:28
you think you are or not are
01:24:29
>> is probably the better thing. And she
01:24:31
said, "It's what you're doing with it
01:24:32
now." And people come to you be because
01:24:36
of that. And and so that was really
01:24:38
lovely cuz I've spent so many days um
01:24:42
yeah discontent about you know um this
01:24:45
morning a part of me was excited and and
01:24:48
the other part was overwhelmed.
01:24:50
>> That's some serious overthinking.
01:24:53
>> Yeah.
01:24:54
You see the smoke coming out of my ears.
01:24:56
>> Oh wow.
01:24:56
>> Yeah. Yeah. I know it's too much man but
01:24:58
yeah that's this crazy thing I call my
01:25:00
mind.
01:25:01
>> Wow. Um what are your fears? What are
01:25:04
you most afraid of?
01:25:06
Um
01:25:08
so in this department I'm doing better.
01:25:10
Uh like I'll face a lot of my fears like
01:25:14
I don't leave them for too long. I've
01:25:16
become a fan of picking the hard road.
01:25:19
Interestingly enough I used to think all
01:25:20
these endurance things were hard. You
01:25:23
know I tell people I'd like to think oh
01:25:24
yeah know bit of a hard ass. I've done
01:25:26
this. I've done that. You know let me
01:25:27
tell you about how incredible and
01:25:29
difficult these things are. But I
01:25:31
realized the irony of it is is if you
01:25:33
enjoy what you're doing, then it's not
01:25:34
really hard.
01:25:36
>> I thought, I suppose that makes sense.
01:25:38
But the hard thing, you know, is I
01:25:40
understand is, you know, difficult
01:25:42
conversations and leaving toxic
01:25:44
relationships and addressing problematic
01:25:47
relationships with alcohol and drugs and
01:25:49
things like that. I realized that's the
01:25:50
actual hard road and that's the road
01:25:52
that a lot of people avoid. And I was
01:25:55
guilty of that. Um, the SAS taught me in
01:25:59
that very short time. I fell in love
01:26:02
with their unofficial motto which is
01:26:04
always a little further and it was based
01:26:06
off a poem and just those simple words
01:26:09
always a little further and it comes
01:26:11
from a poem called the golden road to
01:26:13
Sam Rakand and uh in that poem it says
01:26:16
um we are the pilgrim's master we will
01:26:18
always go a little further you know
01:26:20
beyond that blue barred mountain full of
01:26:23
snow or that angry or shimmering or
01:26:25
glimmery sea we will always go a little
01:26:28
further and I think to yourself, you
01:26:30
know, Jamie, do you go a little further,
01:26:32
buddy, or do you just do enough? You
01:26:34
know, do you does the bar get set here
01:26:36
so you can, you know, achieve it, tick
01:26:38
and flick in a one and done, or or you
01:26:40
going to you're going to go a little
01:26:41
further? And a little further, Dom, for
01:26:44
me now at 46 has got nothing to do with
01:26:46
push-ups and running on trails, but
01:26:49
everything to do with, you know, doing
01:26:51
my best to be honest. You know, I spent
01:26:53
a lot of my life being dishonest. You
01:26:55
know, I that parallels with David
01:26:56
Gogggins. He talks about it a lot. He
01:26:58
was a [ __ ] artist, but so was I. You
01:27:00
know, that's how I survived as a kid
01:27:03
with, you know, that that's, you know,
01:27:05
stealing from shops to have something to
01:27:07
eat. Like that was dishonest and that's
01:27:09
how I spent my life. And so now the hard
01:27:12
road for me is is trying to walk that
01:27:14
path. Well, not trying. I I do walk that
01:27:17
path of integrity and honesty. And it's
01:27:20
hard.
01:27:21
>> Um, and you know, doing doing the next
01:27:25
right thing. You know, I sound like I'm
01:27:27
on my soapbox preaching, but it's not
01:27:29
always been like that. But I've
01:27:31
identified that that's something I was
01:27:33
afraid of. I was afraid of upsetting
01:27:35
somebody or so then I might lie by
01:27:37
omission or not mention something cuz I
01:27:40
don't want to upset them. And I don't
01:27:41
want somebody to not love me or like me.
01:27:43
>> I wanted to be like my granddad so
01:27:45
everyone would just love me. Like why do
01:27:47
you not love me like everybody used to
01:27:49
love my granddad? Well, I'm such a
01:27:51
lovable chap. Like why do you why do you
01:27:53
not love me? Like God almighty. been so
01:27:55
hurt when people didn't and so I was
01:27:57
very afraid of that like not being
01:27:59
liked. So I probably trended towards
01:28:01
people pleasing and a yes guy and um so
01:28:06
whilst that's probably my greatest fear
01:28:08
it's a fear that I work on
01:28:10
>> all of the time.
01:28:12
>> How do you work on that? Is it just
01:28:13
being mindful?
01:28:14
>> Being mindful um being mindful of that.
01:28:18
It's good having uh Liz my wife as a
01:28:22
like she sees the blind spots. M
01:28:25
>> and wow, man. If if I could
01:28:28
if I ever wanted to grow to be a human
01:28:30
being, a decent human being, then she's
01:28:32
my frame of reference.
01:28:34
>> And I I' I don't believe necessarily in
01:28:37
coincidences that we came together, but
01:28:40
she is that frame of reference for me.
01:28:42
Like I I tried to live to be an
01:28:45
individual like herself. And so she is a
01:28:48
daily reminder of um of that. And I'm I
01:28:51
am very fortunate to to have that.
01:28:55
Are you proud of yourself? Like when
01:28:57
when you brush your teeth and you look
01:28:58
in the mirror, you you like you like
01:29:01
>> it's a dim light.
01:29:03
Michael Boué in the background.
01:29:06
Oh yes.
01:29:07
>> No. Do you like like the fellow looking
01:29:09
back at you in the mirror?
01:29:10
>> Oh, I'm not quite there yet, Dom. I wish
01:29:13
I could give you the fairy tale answer,
01:29:14
man, but I you know, in the name of the
01:29:16
truth, I'm not there yet. Uh although
01:29:19
I'm I'm getting there. the needle's
01:29:21
moving from, you know, dissatisfied to
01:29:24
to satisfied. So, I'm probably a little
01:29:26
bit more towards satisfied.
01:29:28
>> Um, will I ever be there? Probably not.
01:29:31
>> Um,
01:29:31
>> it's a moving target, isn't it?
01:29:32
>> Oh, the bloody thing does keep moving,
01:29:34
mate. You know, Nike had it all. I don't
01:29:35
know if it's Nike or Nike, I'm not sure.
01:29:38
But, you know, that that that old
01:29:39
advertising slogan, there's no finish
01:29:41
line.
01:29:42
>> And I think, you know, how how brilliant
01:29:44
and intelligent that was, cuz that's,
01:29:46
you know, that's what I think the answer
01:29:48
is. I think there is no finish line. and
01:29:49
the body then keeps moving.
01:29:51
>> So, yeah, not yet, but getting there.
01:29:55
>> I I think that's good. Yeah. Yeah. We've
01:29:57
all got to be work work progresses,
01:29:59
don't we? The entire time. Well, your um
01:30:02
your your biological mom, like if she if
01:30:04
she saw this or stumbled across it.
01:30:07
Yeah. Like, what would you what would
01:30:09
you like her to her? Yeah. Would you
01:30:11
have a message for her?
01:30:13
>> Oh my god. Um
01:30:16
I assume she's still still alive. Yeah,
01:30:18
I think so. I to the best of my
01:30:20
knowledge, Tom. Uh to the best of my
01:30:22
knowledge,
01:30:23
>> um
01:30:24
yeah, I I I hold I hold no I definitely
01:30:30
hold no ill feeling like no ill feeling
01:30:32
at all. Like I I don't think I would
01:30:33
even be capable of it. Um
01:30:37
no, I hope I hope that she has some
01:30:39
peace, you know, and and I would let her
01:30:41
know that I love her,
01:30:42
>> you know, if she hears this that that I
01:30:44
do love her. And I and I hope
01:30:47
you know I oh jeez I could only imagine
01:30:49
like I you know I've had a challenging
01:30:52
relationship with my oldest son but I
01:30:55
mean we're we're rid as rain now. It's
01:30:57
been the old adage of the father son
01:30:59
sort of duality that we're no different.
01:31:02
But I think, you know, if I if I left
01:31:04
him, I think that would haunt me, you
01:31:06
know, and I think she's probably been
01:31:08
haunted for many years, and that
01:31:10
wouldn't be nice. And so, I hope that um
01:31:13
she's not haunted, cuz she doesn't need
01:31:15
to be, you know, I suppose, ironically,
01:31:18
if it wasn't for her, I wouldn't be
01:31:19
here. And and there wouldn't, you know,
01:31:21
and other people wouldn't have had the,
01:31:23
you know, potential benefits of
01:31:26
relationships with me, whether it was in
01:31:28
fitness or psychological services. And
01:31:31
other people wouldn't have a better life
01:31:33
if it wasn't for the fact she gave birth
01:31:35
to me in a hot pool in Roouur.
01:31:37
Apparently, really in the geothermal
01:31:40
might explain my my lovely beige skin.
01:31:42
But uh yeah, I popped out in amongst the
01:31:44
sulfur and the rocks. So, you know,
01:31:46
merry Christmas.
01:31:48
>> Um yeah, that's that's interesting. It's
01:31:50
very very big of you. Very forgiving of
01:31:52
you because it would be easy for you
01:31:53
just to feel indifference like like
01:31:55
she's dead to you.
01:31:56
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I've had Oh, don't
01:31:58
get me wrong, I've probably had periods
01:32:00
where indifference is probably a great
01:32:01
way of summarizing that, but uh yeah,
01:32:04
no, no indifference, mate. No, no, I
01:32:06
got, you know, warmth in my heart and
01:32:08
that's that's yeah, no problems.
01:32:11
>> No problems, really.
01:32:12
>> What three words would you like family
01:32:14
or friends to use to describe you? Say
01:32:17
Liz was out there with the kids.
01:32:19
>> What three words would they would you
01:32:21
like them to come up with?
01:32:24
multi-layered, multi comp multifaceted
01:32:28
complexity. No. Yeah. No, I like I I
01:32:32
don't know. I like again
01:32:34
I'm not meaning to to to fogg the the
01:32:37
SAS motto, but I like the always a
01:32:39
little further,
01:32:40
>> you know? It's I'm always looking at the
01:32:42
next mountain, you know, what's what's
01:32:44
another mountain to climb. um in in like
01:32:47
almost all areas of my life. Like it's
01:32:49
not just it's definitely not physical.
01:32:52
You know, I'm back at university as a 46
01:32:54
year old. Again, not that uncommon, but
01:32:57
I I left school at 14. Like I when you
01:33:00
think of academia, I'm 180 degrees from
01:33:03
that, but I'm you know, it's always a
01:33:04
little further for me. I
01:33:06
>> I have had my first conversation about a
01:33:08
PhD. Um, so I'm looking to do a
01:33:12
doctorate in behavioral science and
01:33:14
psychology, you know, to to put a doctor
01:33:16
before my name. I mean, I'm I'm not
01:33:18
doing it yet, so don't put the cart
01:33:19
before the horse, but um, you know, I've
01:33:22
got that vision and it's because, you
01:33:23
know, I will always go a little further
01:33:25
and I and I and I love that. And God, I
01:33:27
hope my family think that I'm like that
01:33:29
and not the multi-layered,
01:33:31
multi-acceted, complex human being. They
01:33:34
say females are complex. It's like, hold
01:33:36
my beer. Yeah, hold my beer. Is your
01:33:39
your inner voice, inner critic usually
01:33:41
pretty good?
01:33:42
>> No. Uh, no. Not great. Um, but easily
01:33:47
influenced.
01:33:49
>> Yeah. I don't I spent a lot. So, I don't
01:33:51
know. Have you come across David Neath,
01:33:53
the mental profession?
01:33:54
>> Yeah, I've had him on the had him on the
01:33:55
show.
01:33:55
>> Have you? Oh, no. Yes, you have. I
01:33:57
listen to it. God, jeez.
01:33:59
He's awesome. So, very good friend of
01:34:01
mine. He So, he mentored me for three
01:34:03
years. Um, so we've had a a a long
01:34:06
relationship, Big Dave and I actually a
01:34:09
bit too familiar if I'm honest. The last
01:34:10
time I talked to him, he rang at a
01:34:13
FaceTime at about 8:00 p.m. We were just
01:34:16
about to go to bed. Uh, FaceTime. I said
01:34:18
to Liz, "Oh, Neathy's calling. I don't
01:34:20
know what this is about. I hope
01:34:21
everything's all right." So, I put up
01:34:23
the FaceTime. There's this big soccer
01:34:26
ball head in the dark like the light
01:34:28
just on his and you know his melon like
01:34:30
it's massive. this big soccer ball and
01:34:32
he's got no clothes on. He's sitting
01:34:34
nude on a chair and he said, "How are
01:34:35
you, buddy? What's going on?" I'm like,
01:34:37
"Bro, no. No way." I didn't know whether
01:34:41
I was aroused or frightened. I was a
01:34:43
blend of the two, but um I don't know
01:34:46
where I'm going with this, but uh
01:34:48
>> that's a great story.
01:34:50
>> Yeah, you need you need to know who
01:34:51
we're talking about for this to make He
01:34:53
looks like um you know the old game,
01:34:54
Guess Who?
01:34:57
>> There's a guy with a bald head and a
01:34:59
beard. He looks like that guy. Yeah,
01:35:00
that's Nathan.
01:35:01
>> Eric, I think his name is.
01:35:02
>> Yeah. Yeah, that's right. That's right.
01:35:04
Yeah.
01:35:04
>> Oh, where where were you going with
01:35:05
that?
01:35:06
>> Oh, was it the inner voice? Oh, yeah. It
01:35:07
was the voice. Yeah.
01:35:09
>> So, obviously spending a lot of time
01:35:11
with Dave and he is Oh, like without,
01:35:13
you know, pedestalling Dave, he is, you
01:35:16
know, one of the best at what he does.
01:35:17
And so, I learned very early on, uh, cuz
01:35:20
he coached me through a lot of the world
01:35:22
record stuff. And then as I went on to,
01:35:24
um, work in the mental skills
01:35:26
department, uh, mentored me there. you
01:35:29
know, he's a big fan of reframing and
01:35:31
re-engineering thoughts and thinking to
01:35:33
serve us. And so I of course grabbed
01:35:36
that and ran with that enthusiastically.
01:35:38
So, you know, thinking and thoughts
01:35:41
either contribute to what we're doing or
01:35:42
contaminate. You know, it's going to
01:35:44
help us or it's going to hinder. It's
01:35:45
going to support or it's going to
01:35:46
sabotage. And so, quite often again, you
01:35:49
know, where are my feet? Pausing in the
01:35:51
moment and thinking, you know, is this
01:35:53
thinking actually contributing Jamie? Is
01:35:56
it the truth? And 99% of the time it
01:35:59
probably is, but a lot of the time it's
01:36:02
not, you know. And I did it, mate, just
01:36:03
before coming on to this podcast. We
01:36:05
were we were outside and um I had to
01:36:08
like reframe the way I was thinking
01:36:10
about this and think, you know, I might
01:36:11
be able to in this conversation, you
01:36:14
know, there might be another little
01:36:15
Mario boy from Rourura that's running a
01:36:17
muck and um you know, they might listen
01:36:20
and think, oh, you know, there's there's
01:36:21
opportunity and potential for for them
01:36:24
as well.
01:36:24
>> Yeah.
01:36:25
>> Yeah.
01:36:26
>> Yeah. One one big thing I got from um
01:36:28
Dave, Big Dave, is um you know, he's
01:36:31
he's like, "Look, there's there's plenty
01:36:33
of other people that are going to try
01:36:33
and tear you down. Don't join them."
01:36:35
Basically, don't talk Poppy yourself.
01:36:38
>> Oh, 100%. Look, I've I've I've leared to
01:36:40
understand, you know, this judgment and
01:36:42
stuff. And without talking about too
01:36:44
much psycho babble, there's lots of
01:36:46
different theories. There's a thing they
01:36:47
call perception is projection which
01:36:49
basically means what we're judging,
01:36:51
disliking or hating in other people is a
01:36:54
direct reflection of ourselves.
01:36:57
>> The part of us that we don't like and
01:36:59
that's why celebrities and you know
01:37:00
individuals like yourself um Dom may cop
01:37:04
a bit of flack on online platforms
01:37:06
because you're perceived as an easy
01:37:08
target. It's like, you know, popular,
01:37:10
you're in the media and the the people
01:37:13
what they dislike about themselves,
01:37:15
they're going to fire at you. But
01:37:17
ultimately to the degree of the we call
01:37:20
it like emotional veilance. So the the
01:37:23
heat, the energy, and what they're
01:37:25
saying, if it's like fullon, it is all
01:37:27
about them and nothing about you.
01:37:29
>> Yeah. Which is kind of cool to know when
01:37:31
we understand those theories, you can
01:37:33
sit back and go, "Oh, cool story, bro.
01:37:36
You obviously got a pretty [ __ ] life at
01:37:37
the moment if you're firing that stuff.
01:37:39
>> Yeah. Well, anyone that's winning at
01:37:41
life is not saying anything.
01:37:43
>> They're not they're not going online
01:37:44
like talking
01:37:46
Yeah. They're championing what you're
01:37:48
doing. You know what I mean? And and not
01:37:50
afraid to to admit. I listened to um
01:37:53
Ghilbert in Yeah. and read his book and
01:37:57
and you know, he he openly admits he's
01:38:00
part of the problem, you know, many
01:38:01
times. And then he enlisted other people
01:38:05
to to educate and and level him up. I
01:38:07
mean, one of the greatest at, you know,
01:38:09
what he does in the mental skills
01:38:11
department, 23 years with the All
01:38:12
Blacks, and he's admitting I don't know
01:38:14
everything. I'm part of the problem. You
01:38:16
know, Socrates, you know, I think he was
01:38:18
from Roaura, too, bro. Society said, you
01:38:20
know,
01:38:20
>> 100% he was.
01:38:21
>> Yeah. Yeah.
01:38:22
>> I saw him on the luge once,
01:38:24
>> ancient Greek philosopher up going up
01:38:26
the gondola for a luge. Uh, he said he
01:38:28
knew that he said, I know that I know
01:38:31
nothing. Mhm.
01:38:32
>> They got the greatest mind, one of the
01:38:34
greatest minds ever, saying, "I know
01:38:36
that I know nothing."
01:38:38
>> I think, "Oh, God, there's hope for me
01:38:39
then."
01:38:40
>> Yeah. I definitely find that like the
01:38:42
the older I get, the more that I know,
01:38:44
the the the more I realize there is to
01:38:46
know and the less I know.
01:38:48
>> I don't know. That's That's right. I
01:38:50
think there's we have context of what we
01:38:53
know. And then on the other side of that
01:38:54
is an absolute mystery.
01:38:56
>> And some people have this much context
01:38:57
and some have that, but all the other
01:38:59
stuff we don't know. And I think that's
01:39:01
exciting. Like when we start to, you
01:39:04
know, uh figure out and discover the
01:39:06
unknown, that's when magic happens. Like
01:39:08
it really does. It's really quite
01:39:10
incredible.
01:39:12
>> I reckon that's a good place to end it.
01:39:14
Oh, mate. This has been a this has been
01:39:15
a great episode. I know you were nervous
01:39:17
about it, but I I think this has been a
01:39:18
phenomenal episode. I think there's it's
01:39:20
inspiring. Um there's um some good
01:39:23
takeaways that everyone can use to make
01:39:25
their own life a little bit better.
01:39:27
>> It's cool.
01:39:27
>> Awesome. Dom, thank you very much. This
01:39:29
has been brilliant.
01:39:30
>> Jamie Mil, the David Gogins of New
01:39:32
Zealand.
01:39:33
>> Get up, David. Get up. H. Thank you very
01:39:35
much for your time, Don. It's like I'm
01:39:37
I'm truly honored, man. It's been
01:39:39
awesome.
01:39:39
>> Yeah. Hey, thank you so much. I'm
01:39:40
looking forward to following your
01:39:41
journey.
01:39:42
>> Thank you, brother. Appreciate it.
01:39:56
But
