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hello you little Legions and welcome to
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Runners only with me Dom Harvey thank
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you very much for being here I really
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appreciate it I'm so fizzed about
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today's guest he's a good friend of mine
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I'll tell you all about that in a second
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but first of all if you are a business
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and you'd like to be a sponsor of an
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episode or a few episodes or a season of
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Runners only with dom Harvey please feel
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free to flick me an email Dom Harvey NZ
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gmail.com it's a side hustle at the
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moment and a passion project but the
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ultimate dream is to um like grow this
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thing and make it really big and uh I'd
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need some support and some cash money to
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do that the goal is to grow this thing
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and make it something really special
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like a really cool community and
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eventually sort of grow it and do it a
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bit bigger get some video on board
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um some video editors and um yeah maybe
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some other people helping me out because
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I am so far out of my depth here and I'm
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doing um I'm doing whatever I can but
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I'm very well aware of my skill set and
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how limited it is I'm actually I don't
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pat myself on the back of that often but
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I'm very very impressed at some of the
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stuff I have done so far technically
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speaking because um anyone that knows me
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will tell you that's just not the way my
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brain's wired you know these people that
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are wired different ways I'm more sort
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of creatively minded a little bit
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flamboyant a little bit scatty a little
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bit all over the place so yeah if that's
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you if you're a business and you'd like
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to be involved with Runners only Dom
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Harvey let's talk it'd be great to have
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you on board right today's episode you
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are going to meet Matt Finn chances are
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you don't know the name and that's
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perfectly fine I'd urge you to listen
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though he's a great dude he's become a
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good friend of mine over the past year
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Matt Finn is a mental health Advocate uh
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he's a deep thinker and also one of the
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toughest bastards I've ever met he came
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on my radar last year when he ran 654
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kilometers pretty much continuously the
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Mike King's I am Hope Charity why the
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random number of 654 uh that's because
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that that's happening in new zealanders
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um the previous year lost their lives to
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Suicide
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um it's done a couple of other crazy
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challenges and since then all with the
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goal and the purpose of getting a
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conversation going about Mental Health
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speaking of that this podcast probably
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does need to come with a bit of a
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warning there is lots of uh discussion
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around mental health which I think is a
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fantastic thing uh there's also
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discussion about depression and even
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Suicidal Thoughts so if you find any of
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this triggering keep this number handy
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four three five seven uh that is
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Lifeline you can flick them a text four
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three five seven but I really don't want
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to shy away from these conversations
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because I think it's um yeah there's
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that saying it's not weak to speak and I
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firmly believe that and the more we can
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um you know destigmatize this and get
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the conversation going I reckon the
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better off we will all be okay thanks
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very much enjoy Matt Finn talk soon
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[Music]
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Fast Pace slow and steady anywhere you
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coming up just wanna connect for
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everyone who loves running this is
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[Music]
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Harley
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[Music]
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Runners only with dom Harvey that's me
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and my friend Matt Finn hello mad
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morning mate how you going doing very
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well doing very well thank you very much
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for joining me on my new Venture Runners
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only with dom Harvey I'm excited I'm I'm
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excited too I'm um I don't know I feel
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like I've been um
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living in a comfort zone for the last 20
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or so years
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um doing the same radio job which it
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varies from day to day but uh it is very
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much a comfort zone and now I'm doing
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this thing and I'm starting a community
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and trying to build a brand from ground
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zero and it's um it's humbling and it's
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terrifying and it's scary but that's
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everything that you're about yeah I love
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it it's the taking something on that
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you've never done before and like being
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just paying crap at something to start
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off is really cool you know and I'm I'm
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under No Illusion about that like I I
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expect with the the broadcasting
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experience I've got like
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I'm hoping to be crap but not crap crap
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yeah but um I'm definitely starting at a
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low point and hoping that it is going to
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progressively get better and I love that
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that wave of you learn so quickly early
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on like and I think that's so addictive
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is you get you start something new I
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went for a proper bike ride for the
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first time last week and got my ass
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kicked and expected to be pretty good at
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it and it just just wasn't and that's so
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humbling yeah you know sudden you come
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back again and you're you're
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significantly better than you were the
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last time and that's really cool but
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failing is um failing is a weird thing
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because failing's one of those things
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that um people are petrified of
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um but I'm I'm big about them that's
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going to be a big focus on these
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podcasts here Runners only
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um the three ifs you know failures flaws
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and [ __ ] ups because I think I think
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that's where the most growth happens
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like as long as you take a learning from
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them yeah um you get way more from when
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you're fat and I know you've had a
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couple of big ifs last year yeah and um
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but you you know the the fails that you
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had last year which we will get into the
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things that most normal people would
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never undertake in the first place yeah
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well I used to
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I used to play cricket growing up and I
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remember hearing Mark Richardson talk
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about something he would do and he would
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have three F's and it was after he did
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something wrong or played a ball wrong
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or whatever it would be [ __ ] it up fix
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it forget it and that idea of do
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something wrong that's going to happen
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and it's inevitable it's part of that
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process and then think about how you're
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going to do something differently and
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then completely forget about it just
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regard it and that's sort of what I've
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done as well as take the learnings from
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it and reflect on it but then put it in
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the back of your mind and move on yeah
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as opposed to obsessing over it and I
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feel like
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failing's really good if you're able to
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move on from it and keep building on it
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but if you start obsessing over it gets
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pretty hard yeah it is hard sometimes to
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put it behind you though and say it's in
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the past oh totally yeah I mean if you
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get that figured out then you're good to
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go yeah yeah so um you and you you came
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on my radar last year you and I met and
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we've um become become friends uh last
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year what month did you do the 654 uh
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the end of March okay now if there are
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anyone that uh that you did get quite a
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bit of press but there's probably a lot
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of people that missed it completely what
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was the 654 so there were 654 kiwis that
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lost their life to suicide last year and
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I ran 654 kilometers around Auckland
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domain all around raising awareness we
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were at fundraising it was all around
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trying to
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um encourage people to understand that
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it's a huge problem in New Zealand and
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that was the reason why I did it and I
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wanted to draw attention to the fact
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that
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that was there and I felt like the media
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probably hadn't reported on it enough
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um there was a moment on radio where I
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talked about that statistic early on
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maybe six months earlier and it got cut
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out
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really yeah do you want a name and shame
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or no no I won't do that but
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um yeah that was
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that was a big eye-opener for me right I
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wonder why they cut it out yeah I don't
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know and I never had that conversation
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but I think apart from that that's one
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moment right but I started it started to
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get me thinking more and more about
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um the fact that
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not just suicide but really tough things
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aren't reported about a lot of the time
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we we think it's too dangerous so we
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avoid it for doing different things and
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so I wanted to do something that was so
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big that we we really we really focused
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on it and reported on it yeah
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um and it was hugely outside my comfort
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zone the furthest I'd ever run was just
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over 100k so what what made you what
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gave you the um someone said misguided
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confidence that you could do this
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that's a crazy number it's being super
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naive yeah probably but you don't I mean
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yeah we'll go straight to the end of the
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story and then we'll come back like you
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did get it done yeah and you had like a
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like a camper van there and you're
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having little rests in little naps but
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it was more or less continuous yeah so
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it was 150 hours total right and I slept
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for 11 hours
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um and the idea wasn't we weren't
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worried about records or time or this it
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was about the number and getting getting
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it done and I think that kind of spoke
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to that idea of I was it doesn't matter
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how big the goal was that doesn't just
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because you the most likely scenario is
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that you don't finish it which was that
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doesn't mean you don't go after it and
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try it because if you fall short you've
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still made more progress than if you
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hadn't tried in the first place and
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anyone that hears what you're attempting
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and doubts it I mean you know who's
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who's more of a winner the person that
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attempts it or the person that says oh
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the guy that is attempting it is never
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going to do this I'm Dreaming I find it
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interesting as well because no matter
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how many doubts other people have about
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me doing something I'm still gonna have
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more of them throughout that whole
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process just that niggly voice in the
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back of your head oh it's not it's
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nowhere near in the back as well by the
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time we get it so to do 654
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um the night before
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I was having panic attacks and was up
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all night I didn't sleep at all all
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night I was bawling my eyes out in bed
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rolling around like distraught and all
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alone and very much and this is carried
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through most of the things I've done now
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is very much felt like I was on an
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island so it was I wasn't
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lonely but I was alone and it's because
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you feel like you're the only person
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doing that thing and you could be
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surrounded by people who support you and
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love you but in that moment it feels
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like no one else is in the same boat as
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you 100 I it's it's probably
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um much like a boxer going into the ring
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like they've got a lot of people in
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their corner but as soon as that Bell
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goes off everyone else is out it's just
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you and your opponent yeah and that
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Island analogy is something that I think
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about every day you know you feel like
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everyone's around on it looking at you
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yeah
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um and that's so daunting and it feels
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like there's so much pressure and I've
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just had to slowly try and learn ways to
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to figure that out and navigate that
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because I suppose ultimately it's
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pressure that you're putting on yourself
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oh 100 no one else cares yeah like the I
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think and through some of the the ups
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and downs we'll talk about it's
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um
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I'll I'll care about the physical so
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much but
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it's about the impact and oh I talk
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about the fact that it's not about the
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running yeah it's about doing like big
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things for big reasons you know and if
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you fall short of the physical goal for
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the most part you're the only one that
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really cares
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um other people aren't judging you or
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anything like that and um you actually
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sent me the quote and someone else did
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as well after
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um Baldwin Street which we'll get to oh
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yeah
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um the man in the arena and I mean I'm
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paraphrasing but the idea is that
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um the opinions that matter
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uh of the people who are fighting there
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next to you doing the same thing not the
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people who are looking from afar oh yeah
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it's a fantastic quote you've got the
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654 done um I I came down to see you I
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think more or less every day we're in a
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couple of years with you by the way for
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anyone that is not familiar with the um
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the loop of the Auckland domain uh where
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Matt ran 654 kilometers over how many
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days six six days it's a shitty little
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1.5 kilometer left it's quite a lot of
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elevation as well like it doesn't seem
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like it but it added up to almost 9 000
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meters so that's the height of Everest
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across that because you're doing so long
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it's 22 meters each lap doesn't seem
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like much but it adds up pretty quick
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especially the downhills
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um and yeah it's a one mile Loop and it
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felt awful lot longer than a water a
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little bit I actually have run there
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quite a bit so yeah why oh I don't I
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think part of it I'll bring back PTSD I
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think part of it is it's positive is
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that obviously there's there's bad
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moments but the realization that it's an
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environment which has stressed you out a
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lot but you've conquered it sure yeah in
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a way like I have that with um the track
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I train at over at Millennium is I've
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done quite a few things there which have
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gone really well training runs and
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things like that and past events and now
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I really enjoy running there because I
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can feed off of
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um during training sessions feed off of
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times where it sucked a hell of a lot
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more than it does now and you got
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through it and you can think about that
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and be in that environment and I'm quite
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a big fan of that like if you've done
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something really cool surround yourself
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with reminders of that yeah yeah I like
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that what was the toughest bit about the
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654 was it um like the the dark cold
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hours before Sunrise was at just
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particular moments towards towards the
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end of it or in the midsection what were
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the what were the real tough moments and
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um what was it that um what did you draw
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to to get you through them I think
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um
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there was heaps of physical elements
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um like I broke my feet in four places
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and different things like that
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um but the worst thing is definitely the
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sleep deprivation
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and that you people know what doing an
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all-nighter feels like but doing that
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essentially for a week
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and being physically burning 20 000
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calories a day
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um is
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different and it for the first day or
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two you get through it because you're
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hyped up and you're ready to go and
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there's people around you and you're
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having fun that third night 70 odd hours
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and I hadn't slept up up much until then
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probably two three hours
00:13:38
um of little naps in this camper van and
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that third night I was probably
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280 KN or so so not even halfway no I
00:13:49
was a lot because we negative split it
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right so that means you did the for
00:13:53
anyone that's not um huge into their
00:13:55
running that's where you do the second
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half faster yeah which is totally the
00:13:58
way to do most races but not how you do
00:14:01
ultra races but also easiest easier said
00:14:04
than done because um you're feeling so
00:14:05
good at the beginning of any run or
00:14:06
review totally um I mean I went out a
00:14:08
six minute case and felt good for the
00:14:10
first marathon we did six minute case
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um just adrenaline right yeah and you
00:14:16
can't not do it almost it feels like
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you're just being pushed forward
00:14:19
um but that third night I we were
00:14:21
struggling all through the night I did
00:14:24
18 laps in about a 12 hour period I
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think
00:14:28
and the one last lap it was one mile and
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it took me a whole hour to do just
00:14:35
moving the whole time I was stumbling
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over I had my eye shadows falling asleep
00:14:39
standing up and I had someone on each of
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my arms
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um you know for anyone for anyone
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listening that's not huge into the into
00:14:45
the running figures any one of us could
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probably walk a mile in 20 minutes
00:14:53
but I didn't stop moving either yeah
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that's important to remember I was just
00:14:57
stumbling imagine the slowest you could
00:14:58
possibly walk that
00:15:01
um and I was tripping over and um and I
00:15:05
was the scariest part is when I was a
00:15:06
kid I had nightmares about not being
00:15:09
heard I guess and I was like locked in
00:15:11
my own
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body so I was I was trying to speak and
00:15:14
no one would hear me and that
00:15:16
essentially came true in real life is I
00:15:19
was locked in my own body so I would try
00:15:21
to speak am I nothing would move my
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mouth wouldn't move
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is it like sleep paralysis it's a type
00:15:27
of paralysis your body essentially is
00:15:29
trying to shut down as much as it can
00:15:32
because it can't actually go to sleep
00:15:34
because you're still moving and you just
00:15:35
fall over so it shuts down other systems
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right and so I'm so ingrained of keeping
00:15:41
my feet moving that's fine but
00:15:42
everything else just switches off and I
00:15:45
was trying to say things and nothing
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would happen and that's so scary yeah um
00:15:49
and internally your mind is racing but
00:15:52
nothing happens no one else could tell I
00:15:54
just looked comatose it was as close to
00:15:56
people what people see in zombie movies
00:15:58
yes you could ever imagine like it's
00:16:00
that
00:16:02
um and I was just sort of making
00:16:04
grunting noises and we got around and
00:16:06
everything had been a decision to like
00:16:07
okay we'll do five minutes rest here
00:16:09
we'll do this we'll do this I it was no
00:16:11
talk I just collapsed into that camper
00:16:13
van
00:16:14
had 40. how do you yeah how do you go
00:16:16
from well maybe you're about to get into
00:16:17
this but I was going to say how do you
00:16:18
go from that to recovering back I had a
00:16:21
45 minute nap and woke up myself
00:16:24
because the sun had just come up and I
00:16:27
felt like a new person like all it was a
00:16:28
switch had flicked I felt well-rested
00:16:31
that I felt good it was like starting
00:16:32
again my body was sore but all of a
00:16:34
sudden my body had adapted and we'd
00:16:37
pushed it to a point where it was either
00:16:39
either it was gonna literally shut down
00:16:42
and die or figure it out and your body's
00:16:45
really good at figuring stuff out
00:16:46
eventually and that happened and from
00:16:50
then on although I was battered and
00:16:54
broken
00:16:54
I internally my body had figured out I
00:16:58
could eat heaps again you know all those
00:17:00
struggles that you have with fueling and
00:17:01
eating food and doing all these things
00:17:03
and hydrating and stuff just all sorted
00:17:06
themself out and from then on it felt
00:17:09
although my body was really sore it felt
00:17:11
like running downhill yeah it was and
00:17:12
that's how we negative split it so it
00:17:14
took me
00:17:15
um
00:17:17
probably a half a day less to do the
00:17:19
second half which is pretty huge it's
00:17:21
remarkable
00:17:22
um and we joke about the best way to run
00:17:25
a 300 plus K ultra marathon is to run
00:17:27
one beforehand
00:17:29
but yeah the incredible thing about you
00:17:32
though and um yeah we'll get into this
00:17:33
with the other two challenges that you
00:17:35
attempt and did not complete though is
00:17:37
your your body always gives up before
00:17:40
your mind where I think maybe not I
00:17:43
don't know plucking this figure out of
00:17:45
my ass but I'd say for 90 of the
00:17:46
population their mind will always give
00:17:48
up before the body there's some Navy
00:17:49
SEAL stat about that now when you think
00:17:51
you're done you're only at like 30 or
00:17:53
something yeah and I think it varies and
00:17:54
it's just you throw in like we can throw
00:17:56
numbers out but I think it's different
00:17:58
for everyone yeah it's it's having a
00:18:00
reason why and that um
00:18:03
and I think that it's a learned skill as
00:18:05
well it's it's resilience you know and I
00:18:07
talk about the event is actually the fun
00:18:10
bit when you're
00:18:12
28k into a 30k long run a long Tamaki
00:18:15
Drive in the middle of summer and no
00:18:17
one's watching you no one cares no one
00:18:20
on Strava cares if you've run 28k or 30k
00:18:22
you know but and it doesn't matter the
00:18:25
physical training benefits are tiny in
00:18:27
comparison but if you don't do that
00:18:30
extra 2K
00:18:31
when it comes to the event how can you
00:18:34
expect to turn along when it really
00:18:35
matters you know we I talk about the
00:18:37
idea that there's
00:18:39
um the struggle we choose prepares us
00:18:41
for the struggle we don't and you make
00:18:43
those decisions and build up that
00:18:45
resilience over time with those small
00:18:47
things that add up to when it really
00:18:49
matters and the lights are on
00:18:51
it becomes not a decision it's just you
00:18:53
keep going and throughout all of these
00:18:57
events is there's never in my mind and
00:19:00
this is this is definitely I don't try
00:19:02
this at home there's a way to go about
00:19:05
doing this with an important medical
00:19:07
team around you and things like that of
00:19:08
I'm not entertaining the possibility of
00:19:10
giving up it's that's not a factor in my
00:19:14
head we talk about um and that gets
00:19:16
delegated to someone or a team so you
00:19:19
talk about boxing and how people throw
00:19:21
in the towel the boxer doesn't give up
00:19:23
that's how we work is that
00:19:25
um it's
00:19:27
I'm gonna push myself as far and if you
00:19:30
don't entertain that possibility it
00:19:32
becomes a hell of a lot easier because
00:19:33
there's no oh I've got to do this much
00:19:36
or I could go home it's I'm here for a
00:19:38
week better get on with it you know and
00:19:41
that's the mentality we should um well I
00:19:43
should give out a disclaimer at this
00:19:44
point um I am a big advocate for how
00:19:46
running is so good for your mental and
00:19:48
your physical health
00:19:49
um what Matt's doing
00:19:51
I think there becomes a point where it's
00:19:54
diminishing returns yeah I agree and I
00:19:56
think it's not necessarily wise and
00:19:57
don't try this at home yeah and I think
00:20:00
there's
00:20:01
um I guess what I I come back to with
00:20:03
with what you've talked about as well
00:20:04
it's the reason obviously there's
00:20:05
physical and mental health benefits from
00:20:07
running
00:20:08
um on a very daily basis you know the
00:20:10
consistency and um acting as therapy
00:20:14
sometimes your subconscious goes to work
00:20:15
on things you're dealing with or
00:20:17
whatever it is and it's just the chance
00:20:18
to escape yeah but there's also this
00:20:20
this Japanese concept called musogi
00:20:24
um and it's it's actually to do with
00:20:26
like a water purification ritual in
00:20:28
ancient times but it's the idea is they
00:20:31
go on this journey and
00:20:33
um it's incredibly hard and they do it
00:20:35
once a year and it's sort of translated
00:20:37
into modern times of that idea that you
00:20:39
do some something so hard one day a year
00:20:41
that it affects the way you live your
00:20:43
life the other 364 days and that's why
00:20:46
ultra running can be so addictive right
00:20:48
that idea that you push so far beyond
00:20:51
what you thought you were capable of and
00:20:53
what you normally do that
00:20:56
it affects how you go about your other
00:20:59
life the other parts of your life and I
00:21:01
think that's really powerful and that's
00:21:03
what I come back to as these challenges
00:21:06
are so intense and so stressful and all
00:21:08
that but then they have a major effect
00:21:10
on the way I feel the rest of the year
00:21:13
yeah that's really powerful I like that
00:21:15
so much but for that one day of the year
00:21:17
where you do something super challenging
00:21:18
why don't you clean the oven
00:21:20
or a week straight
00:21:23
so should we go back to where um this
00:21:25
will start and maybe this is a chance
00:21:27
for us to compare War Stories like um
00:21:28
because I feel like this is something
00:21:30
we've sort of connected and bonded over
00:21:31
because um for me
00:21:33
um running has been not only fantastic
00:21:36
for my physical health but for my mental
00:21:37
health as well
00:21:38
um you you run for mental health but I
00:21:41
feel like I know you've had your own
00:21:43
sort of struggles but you generally do
00:21:44
it more for awareness of the entire yeah
00:21:47
for other people rather than yourself so
00:21:50
who wants to go first do you want to go
00:21:51
first where did where did where did you
00:21:53
first become aware of um your
00:21:55
potentially frail mental health so
00:21:58
we go way back
00:22:00
um I was a chubby little kid and really
00:22:02
struggled with self-confidence and um
00:22:04
had a lot of support growing up you know
00:22:07
I had sort of the perfect childhood
00:22:08
somewhat you know what everyone sees as
00:22:10
that but on the inside was being bullied
00:22:13
and really struggled
00:22:14
um and felt like I couldn't speak up out
00:22:16
of there of seeming ungrateful I guess
00:22:19
um for what I did have
00:22:21
um and then because I was at quite a low
00:22:24
point then and and was really struggling
00:22:26
as a kid I had a growth spurt and shut
00:22:29
up all of a sudden when I was 13 years
00:22:30
old or 12.
00:22:32
um and all of a sudden was sporty and
00:22:35
good at things and it was completely
00:22:37
different
00:22:38
um and that probably went to my head I
00:22:40
went completely the other way right here
00:22:41
struggling with self-confidence but then
00:22:43
as a result you act as a sponge and you
00:22:45
draw it all up to go the other way and I
00:22:47
mean when you're 13 years old you don't
00:22:50
know that you're just figuring it out
00:22:51
right or not figuring out and just
00:22:53
living life
00:22:56
um and so I started playing lots of
00:22:58
different sports and then got quite good
00:22:59
at Cricket
00:23:01
um and decided to stop playing the other
00:23:02
sports and pursue Cricket with
00:23:04
everything I had at what age like 13 14.
00:23:07
15 I think was when I specialize I got I
00:23:09
got it down to a rugby and cricket and
00:23:11
then went with with Cricket I feel like
00:23:12
that's the age you reach your Crossroads
00:23:14
where yeah you have to sort of pick one
00:23:16
yeah or I I'm a huge fan of
00:23:18
generalization over specialization up to
00:23:21
quite a late Point yeah like almost 17
00:23:23
18 like I know people who
00:23:26
um are professional athletes in an area
00:23:27
and still play a social sport yeah and
00:23:29
that's so good especially when it's an
00:23:31
individual like Runners yeah or
00:23:33
um or triathletes or whoever it is doing
00:23:36
something different is so good and
00:23:37
that's something I've tried to
00:23:38
incorporate now as well
00:23:40
um
00:23:40
and I moved to the UK at 16 to play
00:23:43
cricket professionally well
00:23:46
um in the county system
00:23:48
um very young who we like belitted out
00:23:50
yeah I was on my own um I was at College
00:23:53
which was like University structure but
00:23:55
school okay so were you in like a dorm
00:23:57
room or something yeah essentially yeah
00:24:00
um and was in with a bunch of other
00:24:01
athletes
00:24:03
um at like 16 and just complete Freedom
00:24:05
um was expected to be at college
00:24:07
quite a bit and wasn't
00:24:10
um and was just training all the time
00:24:11
and you know
00:24:13
um and I got through okay but you know I
00:24:15
was just focused on that and that was
00:24:16
the be-all and end all that was
00:24:18
everything and what happened is it
00:24:20
became so much of my identity it wasn't
00:24:22
me and I played Cricket it's I was a
00:24:25
cricketer and
00:24:27
um when things didn't start going well
00:24:29
and it's a team sports political it's
00:24:31
this and that and I was actually
00:24:33
struggling to perform a lot of the time
00:24:34
because it was a different environment
00:24:35
and I had so much potential but I felt
00:24:38
like I wasn't fulfilling that it felt
00:24:40
like I wasn't enough as a person and I
00:24:42
just it wasn't even a decision to stop
00:24:44
playing after two years it just happened
00:24:46
like there was no day where I went I'm
00:24:48
not gonna play
00:24:49
all of a sudden it was three months
00:24:51
since I'd done anything it's untrained
00:24:52
what was it did you just fall out of
00:24:54
love with Cricket or were you confused
00:24:56
because you were homesick or what no I
00:24:57
think it was um it was it was everything
00:25:00
yeah and because it was everything
00:25:03
um when something didn't go well it
00:25:05
wasn't I had a bad day at the office it
00:25:07
wasn't that it was the job the sport I
00:25:10
was playing the passion everything when
00:25:13
it didn't go well it felt like life had
00:25:15
ended that day that was it was
00:25:17
everything
00:25:18
um and so I found myself at just turned
00:25:21
18 in an apartment in London alone in
00:25:24
the middle of winter where it gets dark
00:25:26
at three o'clock oh it's Bleak and just
00:25:29
didn't have anyone didn't have like had
00:25:31
stopped playing wasn't wasn't earning
00:25:33
money was just there didn't have a
00:25:35
chance to come home didn't didn't want
00:25:37
to tell I didn't tell anyone I'd stop
00:25:39
playing Cricket like back home it was I
00:25:41
felt was that were you embarrassed yeah
00:25:43
exactly I'd gone over to do this huge
00:25:45
thing and failed
00:25:48
like had failed at what the goal was and
00:25:52
had failed because I'd given up or it
00:25:54
felt like I'd given up it didn't feel
00:25:55
like I had
00:25:58
um it wasn't an external thing it's felt
00:25:59
like I decided to and spent six months
00:26:02
there
00:26:04
just
00:26:05
not in a good place you know
00:26:07
um and it wasn't until I was still like
00:26:10
go to the gym every soften and things
00:26:11
like that because it's what I always did
00:26:13
but it wasn't I wasn't doing anything
00:26:14
yeah and
00:26:17
um was very nocturnal as well because
00:26:19
I'd try to stay connected to people in
00:26:20
New Zealand because I didn't know that
00:26:22
many people in the UK and would talk to
00:26:24
them stuff and stay up through the night
00:26:25
yeah and things and um
00:26:28
yeah it was really hard
00:26:30
um and I was going to that gym and I
00:26:32
knew the owners of the gym and it was
00:26:33
quite a small sort of Boutique gym
00:26:36
um and the guys they were really cool
00:26:38
and one of the guys one day
00:26:40
um we were talking we were sitting there
00:26:42
watching YouTube videos because it was
00:26:43
quiet and we were looking at
00:26:46
um different like physical performance
00:26:49
elements and stuff like that because I
00:26:50
was still a bit of a nerd into all that
00:26:51
and um we talked about how if it was
00:26:55
possible to run a marathon without
00:26:57
training for it and he didn't think it
00:26:58
was and I thought it was and he knew me
00:27:00
quite well from that point he knew I was
00:27:01
struggling with some stuff and
00:27:03
he went okay go do it then and I was
00:27:05
like ah not sure
00:27:08
um and he encouraged me and he knew I
00:27:11
needed something like that and the next
00:27:13
day I went and did it and bear in mind
00:27:15
there's a difference between running a
00:27:17
marathon and getting through one and
00:27:19
stumbling walking crawling
00:27:22
every every inch to get there
00:27:25
um I think it took seven hours fifty or
00:27:28
something some I don't remember it was a
00:27:30
long time and it was a long time
00:27:32
considering I felt like I should be
00:27:34
running it and stuff you know and I got
00:27:36
home that night and I remember lying in
00:27:38
bed and it was the I started just
00:27:40
smiling to myself
00:27:41
and it was the first time I'd had a
00:27:43
positive conversation with myself in
00:27:45
like a year and a half which was weird
00:27:47
and I I realized that it was like an
00:27:50
out-of-body experience and I realized
00:27:52
that it wasn't about me going and doing
00:27:54
lots of running it was about realizing
00:27:56
that I could go and do other things yeah
00:27:58
it wasn't like this was the one goal and
00:28:01
now that that was over life was over oh
00:28:03
Cricket you mean yeah yeah and it was I
00:28:05
could go and do other stuff you know it
00:28:07
wasn't it wasn't like because I'd failed
00:28:10
every I would fail at everything and I
00:28:12
that didn't click in my head until that
00:28:14
moment I still really struggled it
00:28:15
wasn't it was no way an instant fails
00:28:17
it's not you wake up the next morning
00:28:18
you're like right 10k run let's go you
00:28:20
know it was um I came back to New
00:28:22
Zealand got a very normal job and took
00:28:25
on a big challenge with um cure kids the
00:28:28
charity and um was fundraising and did I
00:28:31
had a family friend who had cystic
00:28:33
fibrosis and um did
00:28:35
550ks in five days and uh that was
00:28:39
brutal and was traveling around the
00:28:42
North Island to do it
00:28:44
um so we had I'd finish one day and bear
00:28:46
in Mind by the end of the first day my
00:28:48
knee was blowing out and the second the
00:28:51
second 50k I walked probably 45k of it
00:28:54
like it was dumb I was not in the
00:28:56
position to go and do that and so we
00:28:59
finished the second day and then not had
00:29:01
to drive from Auckland all the way down
00:29:04
to toppo and
00:29:06
like we got there at midnight and then
00:29:09
it was like right up at 6am not great
00:29:11
prep yeah no yeah from there I I managed
00:29:15
to get through it and finish it and
00:29:17
expect it to feel like a superstar
00:29:18
expected I'd done this thing that I set
00:29:21
out to do I'd achieved it woke up the
00:29:23
next morning and realized that life was
00:29:25
exactly the same yeah and that hit
00:29:27
really hard you know like what was the
00:29:28
purpose what was the point in doing that
00:29:30
yeah and then really struggled for a
00:29:31
while again you know like you've gone
00:29:33
and done this huge thing and like
00:29:34
essentially no one cares because
00:29:36
everyone's living their own life yeah
00:29:38
have you have you had um have you been
00:29:39
to therapy or you want any drugs or
00:29:41
anything no no so like I've definitely I
00:29:44
feel like I've been really lucky that
00:29:45
I've had
00:29:47
um and I'm very I'm very wary of this
00:29:49
because friends should not be your
00:29:50
therapy um
00:29:52
but I'm I've had really cool people
00:29:55
around me yeah and I think that that has
00:29:57
meant that I
00:29:59
haven't gravitated towards that
00:30:01
initially because nothing was acute as
00:30:03
well there was no there was no like big
00:30:05
moment where I had to go there it was
00:30:07
always
00:30:08
gradually yeah exactly that low level
00:30:11
just all the time and it's something I
00:30:13
actually think I need to get into more
00:30:15
this year is unpacking some of that
00:30:16
stuff because everyone's got this trauma
00:30:18
that's built up from other things it's
00:30:19
really it's one of the things I want to
00:30:21
do this year is actually go and talk to
00:30:22
someone who's a professional you know
00:30:24
and and it's not that I necessarily need
00:30:27
it right now but unpacking those things
00:30:29
sets you up to be in a better position
00:30:32
long term and just be a better person a
00:30:35
lot of the time um actually in a lot of
00:30:37
ways when when you don't feel like you
00:30:40
need it when you're not at that Rock
00:30:41
Bottom I feel like that might be the
00:30:43
right right time to go and see a
00:30:44
therapist exactly yeah you said
00:30:46
something before that sort of resonated
00:30:47
with me you said um uh when you did that
00:30:49
marathon in the UK without new training
00:30:52
it's the first time after that that you
00:30:53
um started to speak nicely to yourself
00:30:55
yeah like have a positive conversation I
00:30:57
was um at the beginning of this year
00:30:58
2022 of you know thinking about some
00:31:01
goals and New Year's resolutions call
00:31:03
them what you want and one of them was
00:31:05
um I just want to be a Kinder person I
00:31:07
want to be nice to people and then there
00:31:08
was um a situation I was out on a run
00:31:10
there was a group of people coming the
00:31:12
other way and they recognized me and
00:31:14
stopped me for a photo and then they
00:31:15
said something like um you're you're
00:31:17
exactly what we expected you to be like
00:31:19
you're you're really really nice and
00:31:21
friendly and then I walked away and it
00:31:22
got me thinking about it more and um I
00:31:25
thought I am a nice person I am a kind
00:31:27
person it's just me that I'm hot I like
00:31:29
I say things to myself the negative
00:31:32
self-talk that I would never tolerate
00:31:34
from another human being yeah well are
00:31:36
we there's that thing about um imagine
00:31:37
if we were as nice to ourselves as we
00:31:40
were to other people like like that's
00:31:41
good yeah I haven't heard that but that
00:31:43
is um and I mean the
00:31:46
that idea of um do you remember I sent
00:31:49
you a message ages ago I think I sent it
00:31:51
as a voice message and it was I I like
00:31:54
the one thing that stands out with what
00:31:55
you do as well is um you make everyone
00:31:58
feel really valued when you meet them
00:32:00
and like people at 654 when you came
00:32:02
along they said that to me about you is
00:32:04
that idea that when you meet someone you
00:32:08
introduce yourself you go out of your
00:32:09
way to ask some questions and do that
00:32:11
and like that had a bit of effect on me
00:32:13
is
00:32:15
um being really kind to other people
00:32:16
right and that that
00:32:19
it has to feed back into your own life
00:32:21
is it's really easy to go out during the
00:32:24
day and put on this even if it's genuine
00:32:26
being really nice to other people and
00:32:28
then you get home and you go into
00:32:30
yourself again and you start beating
00:32:32
yourself oh I should have done this I
00:32:33
should have done this and that in
00:32:35
acrylic right just goes off yeah yeah
00:32:37
and that's so
00:32:39
that's just normal and I think it's
00:32:41
understanding that you shouldn't beat
00:32:42
yourself up for beating yourself up yeah
00:32:45
and that can be really tough as well as
00:32:46
I shouldn't be thinking this I shouldn't
00:32:48
do that and that sort of carried me
00:32:49
through the last year I think because
00:32:51
I've the one thing I've made progress on
00:32:53
is I've stopped doing what I think I
00:32:55
should do and started doing what I
00:32:57
actually want to do deep down
00:32:59
um from routine stuff to also trying not
00:33:03
to beat yourself up for I should be in
00:33:05
this position I should do this you know
00:33:07
and that I think that really helps is
00:33:09
writing down what you actually want to
00:33:10
do yeah and what you want to feel like
00:33:13
and things like that it's really good
00:33:15
how old are you now 23. yeah so you're
00:33:17
like half my age
00:33:19
um when if I was sitting down with you
00:33:21
and we were the same age we're both 23
00:33:22
I'd have no clue what you were on about
00:33:25
because um I had absolutely no struggles
00:33:29
through my 20s even through um probably
00:33:32
to my early to mid 30s and then um what
00:33:35
is you you've probably got a better idea
00:33:36
of this than what I do because you know
00:33:37
the six six five four figure what is the
00:33:39
um what is the hot spot for suicide in
00:33:41
New Zealand I know I don't know if I
00:33:43
could answer that without curacy yeah
00:33:45
it's quite young though isn't it I know
00:33:47
that
00:33:48
New Zealand I'm not sure if it still
00:33:50
does but I know that in the past few
00:33:52
years New Zealand's had the highest
00:33:55
youth suicide rate in the developed
00:33:57
world yeah
00:33:58
which
00:34:00
is just a statistic and then you realize
00:34:02
you compare it to countries new
00:34:03
zealanders think of as really struggling
00:34:05
with things like that like the US and
00:34:08
you realize that we're worse yeah and
00:34:11
that's that's really yeah daunting
00:34:14
um and I think a lot of it is it's that
00:34:17
idea of it's that disconnection and it's
00:34:19
everyone talks about social media and
00:34:21
this and that and things like that but I
00:34:22
think it all comes back to that
00:34:23
disconnection from other people and
00:34:25
yourself and you don't like we talk
00:34:28
about that in a Critic now overactive in
00:34:30
a Critic and that that voice in your
00:34:33
head and it disconnects you from the
00:34:34
world yeah yeah
00:34:36
um one thing that's been huge for me is
00:34:39
even through through school and cricket
00:34:41
and this and that it was always about
00:34:43
time and I was always playing up sports
00:34:45
teams and things like that until a year
00:34:47
above and trying to do things quickly I
00:34:49
remember planning out a cricket career
00:34:51
of I was going to do this by this age
00:34:53
and this by this age and getting so far
00:34:54
ahead as opposed to actually just living
00:34:57
your life and there's this pressure and
00:34:59
I felt like
00:35:00
other people putting that on me for sure
00:35:03
um and as a result it feels and then you
00:35:05
start putting it on yourself and I
00:35:06
definitely still do that but um every
00:35:09
year I would be like this is going to be
00:35:11
the year that it all happens you know
00:35:12
this is going to be you it all comes
00:35:14
together and you you change the world
00:35:16
and you do all this stuff it's this
00:35:18
German word called uh torchless panic
00:35:21
and they have this great way of
00:35:22
describing huge concepts with singular
00:35:24
Words which we can't do and it
00:35:27
translates to gate shut panic and it's
00:35:30
that idea that life is passing you by
00:35:32
and doors are closing in front of you as
00:35:34
you're getting older and you should have
00:35:36
done this and you should be doing this
00:35:37
which I know I when someone told me that
00:35:39
word for the first time I was like oh my
00:35:41
God I feel that it's why I don't like
00:35:42
birthdays anymore like your birthday
00:35:44
when you get when you're a kid it's this
00:35:46
happy time and then you start to get a
00:35:48
little bit older and you're like it's
00:35:49
another year and I should have done this
00:35:51
you know a life slipping you buy exactly
00:35:54
and like that those doors are closing
00:35:56
and like I should have you you start
00:35:57
real you start comparing yourself to
00:35:59
other people's paths
00:36:01
and I think this is the first year of my
00:36:03
life where I've actually accepted that
00:36:04
actually it's all good and like you're
00:36:07
doing your own journey and I think a lot
00:36:08
of that is we're in that system of you
00:36:11
go to school and then you go to
00:36:12
university and you get a job and you do
00:36:14
this and you buy a house and you do all
00:36:16
those things and that's great if that's
00:36:18
what you want
00:36:20
but I feel like a lot of people go
00:36:21
through that that system and that that
00:36:24
pathway and they don't stop to go like
00:36:26
do I actually want this
00:36:28
um or is that what a society is telling
00:36:31
you that you should have or you need to
00:36:32
have people say about why like people
00:36:34
who have really struggled with different
00:36:35
things end up
00:36:37
doing big things and I think part of the
00:36:39
reason for that is that you're forced to
00:36:42
reassess your entire life
00:36:44
and it forces you to eventually decide
00:36:46
what you really want to do
00:36:49
um I think covert did that for a lot of
00:36:50
people yeah is that it's not an
00:36:52
individualized trauma element or it's
00:36:54
anything like that but everyone was
00:36:56
forced to go what am I doing you know
00:36:59
like everything stopped yeah and I know
00:37:01
that was like that for me and that's how
00:37:03
I got into doing like this run and this
00:37:06
chat challenge challenges and stuff
00:37:07
right is I needed to do something I was
00:37:09
like what do I actually want to do
00:37:11
you know yeah for you for me I think
00:37:14
that there was like a bunch of moments
00:37:16
so it was like um what you're yeah what
00:37:17
you're talking about where you
00:37:18
re-evaluate your life
00:37:20
um I have this uh tumor removed
00:37:22
um which left me unable to have kids and
00:37:24
then uh me and my wife at the time JJ we
00:37:26
undertook like six or seven years of um
00:37:28
IVF and fertility treatment and then we
00:37:31
couldn't have kids so then there's this
00:37:32
way that you sort of see the entire
00:37:34
second half of your life you know with
00:37:37
kids and then maybe eventually grandkids
00:37:39
um being taken away from you and uh yeah
00:37:42
there was a bunch of other things that
00:37:44
happened and then um yeah suddenly I
00:37:46
found myself sort of um late 30s early
00:37:48
40s just sort of in a mental health
00:37:50
slump
00:37:51
there were there were points where I
00:37:54
even felt um I thought maybe I should
00:37:56
take my own life and uh I don't want to
00:38:00
be flippant about it but it's like I
00:38:01
never came up with a suicide plan or
00:38:03
anything but this yeah there's times
00:38:05
where you'd look at a belt or something
00:38:06
and think oh yeah I could that could be
00:38:07
an Implement yeah and then um that
00:38:09
really scared me when I had those when I
00:38:11
those thoughts like it terrified but
00:38:13
they were just like fleeting thoughts
00:38:14
they would come and go then I had a I
00:38:16
went to see a therapist and she said in
00:38:18
a like a hash voice she said um
00:38:20
have you ever thought about suicide and
00:38:22
I said I explained to her what I just
00:38:24
explained to you about the belt and
00:38:25
stuff and she just sort of um and this
00:38:27
made me feel really good she Shrugged
00:38:28
her shoulders and she goes well it's an
00:38:29
option that's open to anyone at any time
00:38:31
yeah and uh and that that made me feel
00:38:33
really good
00:38:34
removing the taboo from it it's normal
00:38:37
to think about at some stage it's that
00:38:40
difference between understanding that
00:38:42
you were not your thoughts and
00:38:46
um I actually find that's one of the
00:38:48
reasons I like like I struggle to write
00:38:50
things down with my thoughts like
00:38:51
journaling because my brain races and I
00:38:54
can't keep up and it puts pressure on me
00:38:56
so I spam my phone or I like talking
00:38:58
even if it's voice memos but getting
00:39:00
thoughts out of your head and part of
00:39:03
what you just said is like you talk to
00:39:05
someone about it is it became when it's
00:39:08
in your head it's not a thing it's not
00:39:09
tangible it's rushing around and there's
00:39:11
different stuff and you're the only one
00:39:13
that knows about it's a secret you're
00:39:14
thinking about it
00:39:15
and then you put it out into the world
00:39:18
and doesn't even need to be for anyone
00:39:19
else but all of a sudden it's like a
00:39:20
voice memo on your phone you see the
00:39:22
little waves going up on the sound waves
00:39:23
or it's written down somewhere it's on
00:39:26
like it is something now and then you
00:39:28
can take a step back from it and I found
00:39:31
like that was that was really helpful as
00:39:33
understanding that
00:39:35
your thoughts are not your identity your
00:39:37
thoughts are not feelings they're not
00:39:40
they're not part of you they're
00:39:42
something that you
00:39:44
you you do you know and that that you
00:39:47
can separate yourself from them and that
00:39:48
was really powerful
00:39:50
terrifying thought to have though yeah
00:39:52
if we should start to realize that
00:39:54
that's an option that's open to you and
00:39:55
you even entertain it for just a sliver
00:39:57
of a second it's a like it's a it's a
00:39:59
shattering moment yeah and I think a lot
00:40:01
of it is
00:40:02
um
00:40:03
it's it's just like I I say about
00:40:07
putting it out into the world and stuff
00:40:09
and
00:40:10
um in that moment when those thoughts
00:40:12
and stuff come about is you did exactly
00:40:13
the right thing of actually talking to
00:40:15
someone about it and that's so hard when
00:40:17
you're in when you're on like the cliff
00:40:19
top you know when you're in that moment
00:40:21
but if you you realize that early on and
00:40:24
you're able to do that that's huge yeah
00:40:25
because things always do get better hey
00:40:27
you just yeah you just never want to be
00:40:29
caught at that sort of weak moment where
00:40:31
that's an option and you you take that
00:40:33
option like 654 people did last year
00:40:35
yeah the whole idea that like this too
00:40:37
shall pass right completely and it
00:40:39
always does and I think that's part of
00:40:41
why I love ultra running as well as
00:40:43
there's so many it's such a great
00:40:45
parallel for life is that there's
00:40:46
moments like I talked about that third
00:40:49
night right where it could not be worse
00:40:51
like your body is about to fall down and
00:40:54
die
00:40:55
and then all of a sudden you wake up 45
00:40:57
minutes later and things are different
00:40:58
because the sun's come up yeah something
00:41:00
really simple that happens every day you
00:41:02
know and I think that's understanding
00:41:03
that
00:41:05
um sometimes you just got to do your
00:41:06
best and that I think
00:41:09
I've also understood this year that
00:41:11
there's a difference between optimal and
00:41:13
Peak both in a sporting sense and in
00:41:15
life right is that
00:41:17
Peak is spinning four to eight years
00:41:20
training for the Olympics to Peak it for
00:41:23
10 seconds at 100 meters that's right
00:41:24
because everything has been in service
00:41:27
of getting you to your absolute best
00:41:29
that you've ever done on that moment
00:41:32
that happens once every four years not
00:41:35
every single day and optimal is being
00:41:38
able to do your best in that moment
00:41:42
considering everything else that's going
00:41:45
on in your life right and that and
00:41:47
people we we constantly compare
00:41:49
ourselves and other people to Peak and
00:41:52
the best ever not actually I didn't
00:41:56
sleep that well last night I haven't
00:41:58
eaten that well I was helping out a mate
00:42:00
move so I'm tired and this and that and
00:42:03
then I've gone for a run or gone to work
00:42:05
and stuff and I didn't do that well
00:42:06
today but you did well in comparison to
00:42:09
how you approached it you know and you
00:42:11
were optimal you know and there's days
00:42:13
where you won't you won't be optimal but
00:42:15
whatever you do is actually your best
00:42:17
because you take into account all those
00:42:20
things that have happened to you you're
00:42:22
doing your best in that moment and I
00:42:24
think that's like a big powerful thought
00:42:26
to and feeling you know to to realize
00:42:30
that you're capable of that and you
00:42:32
don't have compare yourself to that big
00:42:34
thing yeah well there is that saying
00:42:35
that comparison is the theft of Joy
00:42:37
which is really really good but also if
00:42:39
you're um if you're an over achiever
00:42:40
it's it's hard not to be hard on
00:42:43
yourself oh totally you know what I mean
00:42:44
I mean like there's moments where that's
00:42:46
really good yeah you know and I think
00:42:48
it's just that balance and that no one
00:42:50
knows the right answer I think it's
00:42:51
really comforting I find it really
00:42:53
comforting that um no one actually has
00:42:55
any clue what they're doing even that is
00:42:58
so true especially the people who seem
00:43:00
like they do and I feel like people see
00:43:03
people see the outside and they see the
00:43:05
surface and they're like oh are you
00:43:06
doing this I wish I could be like that
00:43:08
and and no one has any idea what's going
00:43:12
on I feel like covert really revealed
00:43:15
that as well is that from celebrities on
00:43:17
Instagram to the the mate you really
00:43:20
look up to to whatever no one has any
00:43:24
idea yeah and that's really comforting
00:43:27
um I think that reminds me of that idea
00:43:29
that as well of you talk about like
00:43:31
people putting like putting pressure on
00:43:34
yourself and comparing yourself to other
00:43:35
people and I I have this thing I
00:43:37
actually have it written down on a wall
00:43:39
at home and it's um
00:43:41
you don't even have to stop giving a
00:43:43
[ __ ] what other people think about you
00:43:45
you just have to stop and realize that
00:43:48
they're not thinking about you at all
00:43:49
they're thinking about themselves just
00:43:53
like you are honestly the um
00:43:55
the amount of times in my life where I I
00:43:57
would have liked to try try something
00:43:59
like I don't know like say stand-up
00:44:00
comedy for example that's something that
00:44:02
I would love to go and do that yeah but
00:44:04
I suppose because I was on the radio and
00:44:06
I had a good radio job I was worried
00:44:07
about about you know about failing and
00:44:10
the truth is no no gives a [ __ ] like
00:44:12
yeah I don't know there might be a
00:44:13
couple of people that want to see you
00:44:14
fail but for the most people most people
00:44:16
are just thinking about themselves as
00:44:17
you said I think part of that comes back
00:44:19
to
00:44:20
um the minorities always the loudest as
00:44:22
well yeah and you like the comments on
00:44:26
Facebook or whatever it is those
00:44:27
comments on Facebook are just a parallel
00:44:29
for the people that you imagined that
00:44:32
aren't really there you know they're not
00:44:33
they're not saying that to your face
00:44:34
they're not doing this and I mean I
00:44:36
haven't experienced a whole lot of that
00:44:37
but there's also there's always some
00:44:39
things and it's just about realizing
00:44:43
that um
00:44:45
do You Really Care Bar Maybe 10 to 20
00:44:49
people in your life you really care what
00:44:51
those other people think yeah which is
00:44:53
which is obviously it's not about
00:44:54
annoying people or pissing people off or
00:44:56
doing things and with complete disregard
00:44:58
for the rest of society yeah but it's
00:45:01
it doesn't matter do what you want to do
00:45:03
yeah you know absolutely like do your
00:45:06
thing and I got given some some really
00:45:09
good advice um from someone who's like a
00:45:11
close mentor and I was I was very much
00:45:13
trying to please everyone
00:45:15
and if you try to please everyone you
00:45:16
don't please anyone and it's better to
00:45:19
be polarizing obviously not in an
00:45:22
offensive way not in a way which is
00:45:24
hurting people but polarizing in a way
00:45:25
some people like you and some people
00:45:27
aren't that big of a fan yeah and that's
00:45:29
actually a good way to go about it
00:45:31
because it means you're probably doing
00:45:33
something important it means you're
00:45:34
probably doing something that connects
00:45:35
with people in a strong way yeah
00:45:37
absolutely well we've spent so much time
00:45:40
talking about your 654 talking about
00:45:42
mental health
00:45:43
um it hasn't left us much time to talk
00:45:45
about your two challenges last year
00:45:47
where you didn't succeed and I think
00:45:48
that's good yeah I think that's a good
00:45:50
thing they probably don't deserve as
00:45:51
much um as much um oxygen on this
00:45:53
podcast but but let's go there yeah so
00:45:55
the um so the 654 was in the Auckland
00:45:58
domain and what month uh the end of
00:46:00
March I think I finished the last day of
00:46:02
March and then you went to Baldwin
00:46:03
Street in Dunedin when was that yeah
00:46:04
well I planned out to do these three
00:46:06
World Records in six months you know it
00:46:08
was this big plan and I had this I very
00:46:10
much was in the position of I had
00:46:12
struggled after that mentally and was
00:46:14
like I've got top it I've got to go more
00:46:16
and do this and
00:46:18
um and just was like I'll just do you
00:46:20
feel part of that was fed from um you
00:46:22
know you had so much like public support
00:46:24
and I suppose you had people saying to
00:46:26
you immediately afterwards like oh
00:46:27
what's what are you gonna do next the
00:46:28
first question I got in an interview was
00:46:31
so what are you doing next I'm like
00:46:33
going to the hospital like what do you
00:46:35
think you're gonna be put on a dress
00:46:37
still it's
00:46:40
it's I was the first to question I the
00:46:43
most asked question I get is not how am
00:46:44
I doing how how's the body how's this
00:46:47
it's so what are you gonna do next it's
00:46:48
hard though but I suppose you become a
00:46:49
victim of your own 100 and I'm not I'm
00:46:52
not um begrudging that or anything but
00:46:54
it's understanding where people will
00:46:56
think and
00:46:57
um yeah so I planned out these three
00:46:59
things and so the first one was
00:47:01
um middle of winter in hindsight I had
00:47:04
no clue what I was doing I went down to
00:47:06
Baldwin Street Steve is Street in the
00:47:08
world yes and was going to do the world
00:47:10
record for the fastest time to ascend
00:47:12
the height of Everest which is how many
00:47:14
times happened down board one 132. oh
00:47:19
anyone that hasn't been to Dunedin it's
00:47:21
one of those streets most people walk up
00:47:22
there as a novelty take a photo oh and
00:47:24
get out like I walking walking up it
00:47:27
gets you out of breath a quarter of the
00:47:29
way up like even you know that idea of
00:47:31
when you say okay yeah it's it's it's
00:47:34
just it's 70 meters elevation
00:47:38
in 350 meters length that's crazy and
00:47:42
it's so steepened
00:47:44
um it was wet and I mean and I I don't
00:47:47
wanna I wanna preface this by saying um
00:47:49
although some of these may sound like
00:47:51
excuses I was not prepared to go and do
00:47:54
this if every condition was perfect
00:47:55
right like these things contributed to
00:47:58
why it went wrong
00:47:59
but I was not fed enough and I hadn't
00:48:01
done the prep
00:48:02
um did you think you had though no no I
00:48:05
said you knew you were okay yeah two
00:48:07
weeks beforehand I went this is not
00:48:09
working I'm I'm going through the
00:48:11
motions and I needed knew something
00:48:12
needed to change which I think someone
00:48:13
took the pressure off me understanding
00:48:16
that I knew I wasn't going into it ready
00:48:18
but you still have you have to have that
00:48:20
belief of who knows yeah I didn't feel
00:48:22
ready for the other challenges either
00:48:23
did you think you'd get through on your
00:48:24
mental toughness ah I didn't know but
00:48:27
yeah I think I'd never failed a big
00:48:29
challenge before so I was like we'll
00:48:30
figure it out that's always what happens
00:48:33
um and we started at 6am it was minus
00:48:37
two degrees
00:48:39
um it was wet and from the start I was
00:48:41
because it was weird it was Dunedin what
00:48:43
did you expect exactly
00:48:45
um I expected everything that just come
00:48:47
together and work around me and
00:48:49
um and I was going down the stairs and
00:48:52
up up and down the stairs from the start
00:48:54
because I was too wet and I was behind
00:48:55
the pace from the start and as I got off
00:48:57
the pace further because it was I didn't
00:48:59
like 11 hours it was quick
00:49:03
and then got further and further behind
00:49:06
and started my knees started to go and
00:49:08
then I cracked two ribs which was how
00:49:12
did you crack your ribs just the
00:49:13
constant impact going down really so you
00:49:16
didn't fall over on the witnesses
00:49:17
imagine what a stress fracture does but
00:49:20
very acute
00:49:22
um it was the back two ribs and so I
00:49:24
started to really struggle breathing to
00:49:26
the point where I was panic attack
00:49:27
breathing the whole time and you get up
00:49:29
to the top and then you wouldn't get
00:49:30
your breath back on the way down because
00:49:31
it would be the impact and I managed to
00:49:33
get halfway up Everest in eight hours so
00:49:37
not like crazy off the pace you know
00:49:40
like 6 16 like yeah yeah like it's
00:49:42
internet realm and you can see why I
00:49:45
thought I might be able to do it but um
00:49:47
brutal and it became a thing where I
00:49:50
just couldn't get my breath back I
00:49:51
couldn't breathe because my ribs were
00:49:52
imagine having broken ribs and sneezing
00:49:55
it was like that every single breath and
00:49:57
it was it was I was just in the bottom
00:49:59
of old run straight in a rental car
00:50:02
crying and was like with so many people
00:50:05
around me like a hundred people in a
00:50:07
crowd at the bottom of Boardman Street
00:50:08
and I'm just in the car crying like
00:50:10
physical pain mental pain both
00:50:12
everything just and that like I think
00:50:14
almost relief as well if there had been
00:50:16
such a tough time leading up to that I
00:50:17
was just like oh my God there's such
00:50:18
this emotional dump just came out and I
00:50:22
actually I asked my phone I wanted to
00:50:24
write I needed to write things that I
00:50:26
would change if I did it again and that
00:50:28
idea of what I said about [ __ ] it fix it
00:50:29
forget it I needed to write those things
00:50:31
down to fix it and then I could put it
00:50:33
aside for a while so that I could
00:50:36
like get this release almost and we went
00:50:40
back to the hotel and I ate room service
00:50:43
and sat in the hotel and did not feel
00:50:45
good and just surrounded myself with
00:50:47
some cool people after I had some time
00:50:49
alone and flew back the next day and
00:50:52
um
00:50:52
and really that was tough but I knew
00:50:55
what I wanted to change I knew what I
00:50:56
wanted to do things differently and I
00:50:59
got asked what my favorite run of last
00:51:00
year was and you'd expect me to say 654
00:51:04
or some nice trading Runner and it was
00:51:05
Baldwin really why was it that one
00:51:07
because it had the most significant
00:51:09
impact on my life and at the time it
00:51:11
sucked but it made me it learned so much
00:51:14
more from those things forced me to I
00:51:17
was in a complacent mode of trying to do
00:51:19
a cheap challenges and Tech goals off as
00:51:22
opposed to being the best version of
00:51:24
myself and that resulting in me doing
00:51:26
those things and that was the way that
00:51:28
mindset mindsets which came and I was in
00:51:32
this big training block and going well
00:51:33
and then covert hit again and I had this
00:51:37
challenge of doing
00:51:38
a marathon towing a car for this world
00:51:40
record and doing actually doing 100k
00:51:42
with it and that just went out the
00:51:45
window within two weeks of lockdown and
00:51:46
so this isn't going to happen and had to
00:51:48
Pivot and adapt again and I set my sight
00:51:51
on the last one which was to for the
00:51:54
longest single stage run ever so it was
00:51:56
and the key thing is is it's that
00:51:58
difference between waking up and running
00:52:00
a long way each day and then going to
00:52:02
bed and getting good night's sleep
00:52:03
versus hitting it all the time so I had
00:52:06
to run just over a thousand kilometers
00:52:08
in
00:52:10
um I had to do at least 100K every day
00:52:12
and I couldn't stop for more than two
00:52:14
hours at a time couldn't be stationary
00:52:16
right which was just brutal so that was
00:52:18
um that was um lockdown for December
00:52:20
last year yeah and sort of one yard
00:52:22
called away and obviously we structured
00:52:25
our mental health so it was all around
00:52:26
raising awareness and we wanted to reach
00:52:28
a million comments and but the physical
00:52:30
goal was was that and
00:52:34
um I set off pretty well you know did
00:52:36
well on the first day um did just over
00:52:38
100 had plenty of time to spare you know
00:52:40
stretched it out and everything went to
00:52:42
plan and the second day I kind of
00:52:44
struggled but we got there and timed it
00:52:46
well and the third day my knee started
00:52:48
to go and
00:52:50
um I got really behind the pace and had
00:52:54
five hours to run a marathon with 260k
00:52:58
in my legs
00:53:01
it wasn't fun and I made it with four
00:53:03
minutes to spare and I was my feet were
00:53:07
in agony as well from that the throbbing
00:53:09
and it was that was probably the hardest
00:53:11
physical thing I've ever done and I got
00:53:14
there with
00:53:15
um four minutes to spare and just
00:53:16
collapsed in the middle of uh kananga
00:53:19
Plaza and when I called her with the
00:53:21
city behind me and just there's a video
00:53:23
of me just hitting the floor and like
00:53:26
panicky crying just this emotional dump
00:53:29
right and then I had to find a way of
00:53:31
picking myself up after that and we're
00:53:33
going again within two hours and that's
00:53:35
so hard there's no big time there's no
00:53:38
let's get dinner there's no could you
00:53:40
not
00:53:42
part of me thinks after the Baldwin
00:53:44
Street thing where you were going for
00:53:45
the record you're like in Baldwin Street
00:53:48
maybe if you slowed it down you could
00:53:49
have got it done without the record
00:53:51
could you not have pivoted at this point
00:53:53
and go okay well we'll keep going but we
00:53:54
won't worry about the the world record
00:53:56
aspect I think that's that's something
00:53:58
that's really easy to do in hindsight
00:53:59
yeah I totally agree but in that moment
00:54:03
it's you've gotta you've gotta back
00:54:06
yourself you know and that this has come
00:54:08
back to what you were saying before
00:54:09
about how like Noah's not an option or
00:54:11
yeah and I think you'd never achieve the
00:54:14
actual goal if you ever entertained that
00:54:16
possibility right it becomes a point
00:54:18
where it's not a decision
00:54:20
um and so I kept going and I managed to
00:54:22
get through I managed to make the next
00:54:24
day and then because essentially there's
00:54:26
that 100K cut off right and you're
00:54:27
battling that every day which is so
00:54:29
draining which 100K if you want to go
00:54:31
and do it each day
00:54:33
for a lot of Runners especially Ultra
00:54:35
Runners is like it's huge but like it's
00:54:37
possible it's doable I mean yeah just
00:54:39
recently we've had um Emma Tim's run the
00:54:42
length of New Zealand yeah with a smash
00:54:44
the record doing 100K a day for 21 days
00:54:46
but it's not that down play it oh no
00:54:48
100K a day for anybody just for one day
00:54:50
100 phenomenal just that constant
00:54:53
hitting it and not getting that break I
00:54:55
would have killed to just go to bed for
00:54:56
eight hours like oh please
00:55:00
um and
00:55:02
um so what happened was uh that I made
00:55:05
it at 8pm and we got through that I
00:55:08
started and we got got 16kn or something
00:55:11
and
00:55:12
um I my feet were really sore like to
00:55:16
the point where they were very nerve
00:55:17
painy which happens and it comes and
00:55:19
goes and so we're like well let's risk
00:55:21
me more and elevate my legs but let's
00:55:22
sleep at the same time because
00:55:25
um because it was so bad and then we got
00:55:27
up again to do another lap and it got to
00:55:29
the stage where I physically couldn't
00:55:30
walk with someone next to me like it was
00:55:32
just such intense nerve pain
00:55:34
um and we rested me more and my body
00:55:37
started to shut down because we rested
00:55:39
me more and it's that that thing of if
00:55:41
you take too long to rest without
00:55:43
getting enough rest your body just goes
00:55:45
like plummets and that's what happens
00:55:47
and at 4am they tried to get me up
00:55:50
didn't work I basically
00:55:53
um was they got me into a chair and like
00:55:54
fed me a hash brown and stuff and I was
00:55:56
aware of everything going on around me
00:55:57
but was still basically comatosed and
00:56:00
they tried to get me up and get me like
00:56:03
moving and the team did great and
00:56:07
I started to seize in the chair so I
00:56:10
would my heart rate would go from 60 to
00:56:12
160 to 60 to 160 and my body started
00:56:16
fitting and it's that that difference of
00:56:19
we sort of tried to get me out of it and
00:56:20
stuff and it got to the stage where it
00:56:22
was like
00:56:23
no it's time like my body's saying no no
00:56:27
more it's about me giving up it's not
00:56:30
anything it's not you're not coming back
00:56:31
from this now this is gonna get worse
00:56:34
and so we made the decision to call it
00:56:38
and call it bear in mind I'm totally
00:56:40
wear everything going around me but
00:56:42
can't do anything I'm locked in my body
00:56:43
again I'm just here you know
00:56:46
um and
00:56:47
and I was in and out of Consciousness as
00:56:50
they took me to the hospital it was
00:56:52
probably a few hours later and so I had
00:56:54
a seizure
00:56:55
um very different like an epileptic
00:56:57
seizure where it's brought on by that
00:56:59
external this was brought on by extreme
00:57:01
sleep deprivation and what they said is
00:57:03
in hindsight is actually it had only
00:57:04
been seven months since I'd done six
00:57:06
days of sleep deprivation and that my
00:57:08
body had sort of remembered that
00:57:10
and instead of adapting instead of
00:57:12
adapting this time it went no right
00:57:15
whereas last time that similar feeling
00:57:17
my body flicked a switch and went came
00:57:19
right because this time it didn't do
00:57:21
that it's funny how because you think
00:57:22
it'd be the opposite and your body would
00:57:23
go okay we've been here before exactly I
00:57:26
think it's just as that they suggested
00:57:28
as to actually taking a year do that not
00:57:30
seven months okay that's a big
00:57:32
difference and your body will be able to
00:57:34
do something like that again but
00:57:35
taking the time and recovering and I
00:57:38
think in hindsight
00:57:40
I didn't know that and now I know that
00:57:42
so I can do things differently in future
00:57:44
and just learn from it
00:57:45
um but yeah I managed to get 421
00:57:48
kilometers in which
00:57:51
seemed like a failure but actually when
00:57:53
I was in the hospital I was really
00:57:55
emotional but I actually felt okay
00:57:57
because what I'd done in that training
00:57:59
block leading up to it I dropped 10
00:58:00
kilos I was as fit as I'd ever been I'd
00:58:03
done 200 plus K training weeks I'd
00:58:05
checked every box I'd done everything I
00:58:07
possibly could to prepare
00:58:10
and my body said no and that's okay
00:58:13
and that it wasn't like I had left
00:58:15
anything on the table and to come from
00:58:16
Baldwin where I felt really unprepared
00:58:18
and hadn't done the right things to that
00:58:21
um the result didn't matter to me as
00:58:23
much there was and can I just say you
00:58:25
should always feel okay about these
00:58:26
things because it's like I'm not they're
00:58:28
not simple tasks that you're undertaking
00:58:30
they are big challenges and with big
00:58:32
challenge comes um uh big big rewards
00:58:35
but also a big risk well it's like
00:58:36
imagine if I'd set out to run 400k
00:58:38
that's still amazing yeah and I would
00:58:41
have done it but I still would have had
00:58:42
what 20 odd K in the tank probably more
00:58:45
because I would have known that and
00:58:46
paced it differently and it's I would
00:58:48
much rather
00:58:50
push my body to the Limit and find out
00:58:52
where that limit is at that moment that
00:58:54
doesn't mean it's always going to be
00:58:55
there at that moment then
00:58:58
fall short and
00:59:01
um realized that I still had some in the
00:59:02
tank and that play on my mind for ages
00:59:06
and the only reason why you wouldn't do
00:59:09
that most of the time
00:59:10
is because you're worried about what
00:59:12
other people would think and that
00:59:13
failure and having said that there is
00:59:16
something to be said for the last two
00:59:18
things I've done I haven't managed to
00:59:20
tick off the physical goal I wanted to
00:59:23
and so that can be really draining and
00:59:26
so it's going and finding wins of things
00:59:29
you can actually tick off you set out
00:59:30
this exact goal and you do it and that's
00:59:33
something I've tried to surround myself
00:59:34
with more recently is still pushing
00:59:36
myself but understanding that I can do
00:59:38
this again and going and doing runs
00:59:40
where it's yeah it's a hard session or
00:59:42
whatever it is but I can do it and get
00:59:44
through it and build up those wins again
00:59:46
because it can be really draining on
00:59:48
that self-confidence you start to doubt
00:59:51
with you go the other way from that
00:59:52
complacency I did three in a row where I
00:59:54
ticked off and did everything I wanted
00:59:55
to and then I had two where I didn't do
00:59:57
that yeah and it comes in stages yeah so
01:00:01
what about
01:00:02
um 2022 here we are on the first quarter
01:00:04
of the year you you're gonna you wanna
01:00:05
do anything that's yeah you're going to
01:00:06
do anything this year yeah well I mean
01:00:08
I've I've said like I need a break and I
01:00:10
feel I definitely feel like it's helped
01:00:12
um I think
01:00:14
um oh the break's done while the break's
01:00:17
done from um me working towards rights
01:00:20
but things look different
01:00:22
um part of what I've realized and I
01:00:24
haven't talked about this yet is
01:00:26
um
01:00:27
when you do the challenges and the
01:00:30
mental health aspect and the promotion
01:00:32
of the or the raising awareness aspect
01:00:34
of mental health is is so wrapped into
01:00:36
what you do there's this huge pressure
01:00:37
and this huge weight on it and actually
01:00:40
letting myself off the hook of that is I
01:00:42
can go and do these athletic things and
01:00:44
they don't have to be completely tied up
01:00:47
in this mental health I suppose you can
01:00:49
actually be an athlete and a runner and
01:00:51
do these things and still be an advocate
01:00:53
for mental health and make change and
01:00:55
they don't have to be mashed together
01:00:56
all the time of course yeah I think I've
01:00:58
learned that but didn't realize that in
01:01:00
context and I think that's what I'm
01:01:02
going into 2022 doing is trying to
01:01:05
separate those things out so that I can
01:01:07
actually put full energy into each one
01:01:09
not both of them get half and I think
01:01:12
that's that's been big for me and that's
01:01:14
been a huge change in mindset and
01:01:16
obviously a big change to what I'm doing
01:01:18
um but and it sort of means I'm
01:01:21
uncertain about what a lot of things
01:01:23
look like
01:01:24
um but I think a lot of it is
01:01:27
um
01:01:28
you pivot and you do things differently
01:01:30
and you learn from it and I have to take
01:01:32
care of myself in order to be able to go
01:01:34
and do these things absolutely first and
01:01:36
foremost every time that's the best
01:01:37
mental health advocacy you could ever do
01:01:39
and the best raising awareness you could
01:01:40
ever do in mental health is to show an
01:01:43
example where you're actually taking
01:01:44
care of yourself rather than pushing it
01:01:47
further yeah
01:01:49
um and I mean I feel like I know you
01:01:51
reasonably well and I know that you'll
01:01:52
you these things do become addictive and
01:01:54
you'll want to do more and you want to
01:01:56
do different fun things
01:01:58
um but I also feel like you've you've
01:02:00
already done enough that you if you go
01:02:02
turn up to an event where you turn up to
01:02:03
something you are going to be Matt fan
01:02:05
mental health Advocate yeah that's how I
01:02:08
think that's a title that you've earned
01:02:09
for yourself with what you've done and
01:02:10
what you've attempted yeah and I think a
01:02:12
lot of it is it feels it feels hard at
01:02:14
times because it almost feels like
01:02:16
there's self-promotion involved and that
01:02:18
feels a bit icky to me I've never wanted
01:02:20
to be an influencer or anything like
01:02:22
that I think part of it is it gets tied
01:02:25
up in that because all I want to do is
01:02:27
create a platform where I'm able to keep
01:02:30
doing these things and keep making that
01:02:32
difference and it's not about
01:02:34
the the selfish side of it it's about
01:02:37
the wanting to
01:02:39
have a platform to be able to make a
01:02:41
difference and have that impact yeah
01:02:43
um which I've been really grateful for
01:02:45
over the past year is that has grown and
01:02:46
I've been able to
01:02:48
um
01:02:49
people have sort of let me in their
01:02:51
lives in some ways you know to talk
01:02:53
about these things and stuff like that
01:02:54
which has been huge and something I
01:02:56
definitely don't take for granted and
01:02:57
has been I sort of
01:02:59
almost feel a responsibility now not
01:03:01
necessarily to go and do all these
01:03:03
things but when you start talking about
01:03:04
these things it's um it's almost the
01:03:07
great power comes great responsibility
01:03:09
of right you you it's you
01:03:13
you have some of that platform and you
01:03:15
need to continue to use it in the right
01:03:17
way yeah yeah yeah but I'm pleased
01:03:19
you're looking after yourself first
01:03:20
because that's the most important thing
01:03:21
yeah
01:03:22
um but and saying that I do look forward
01:03:24
to seeing what's next as well because um
01:03:26
yeah I don't know where these challenges
01:03:27
stem from but um yeah I love the
01:03:29
wackiness of them oh they they brain
01:03:31
dump some brainstorms we talked about
01:03:33
how the the end of year run came from I
01:03:36
literally typed into Google how far is
01:03:39
it to the Moon
01:03:44
like that's a lifetime running goal you
01:03:46
know like I'm gonna do this yeah yeah
01:03:48
and
01:03:50
um but it's just it's
01:03:52
that's the ideology and they they come
01:03:55
from all sorts of different things
01:03:56
questions people ask you to this and
01:03:58
that and I really love that as when I
01:04:00
was a kid I I wanted to
01:04:02
before Crook and everything I thought
01:04:04
about I want to be creative and I want
01:04:05
to come up with ideas for things I've
01:04:07
thought about advertising all these
01:04:08
different things and then I switched
01:04:10
like that Elite Sport and I realized
01:04:11
that somehow those two things have sort
01:04:13
of mashed together into what I do now
01:04:14
and that it's that idea and that that
01:04:17
how can we engage people and and make a
01:04:20
difference and and be positive impact
01:04:22
but also high performance Sport and and
01:04:25
combining those two things together yeah
01:04:27
well I'll tell you what you're a great
01:04:29
New Zealander
01:04:30
um and uh you've become a good friend of
01:04:31
mine and it's been great to sit down
01:04:32
with you today I've really enjoyed our
01:04:33
chat about running and mental health and
01:04:35
everything in between it's been great
01:04:36
cheers mate I'm looking forward to um
01:04:38
continuing to listen and see what
01:04:40
happens amazing and likewise I'm looking
01:04:42
forward to seeing what you come up with
01:04:43
next if anything yeah for sure cheers
