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hi there and welcome to this episode of
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Runners only with dom Harvey coming up
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Zoe McBride yeah I talked to them a
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little bit but then it was also hard so
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I was like I knew that they were so
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excited for me to go to the Olympics and
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I knew how much like I knew how proud of
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me they would be and so I found it hard
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to talk to family because I was like I
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don't want to disappoint them this is an
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unreal story this morning I can't thank
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Zoe enough for sharing it with me Zoe
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McBride was a three-time world champion
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for rowing but that success came at a
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huge personal toll physically first in
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the form of an obsession with her weight
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then mentally and it all came to a hit
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in April last year when Zoe and her
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rowing partner Jackie Kettle were
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gearing up for the Tokyo Olympic games
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where a medal was almost a certainty
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they never made it to the Olympics
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though because after endless months of
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wrestling with demons Zoe made the call
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to put her physical and mental health
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first a move that crushed not only her
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own Olympic dream but Jackie's as well
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this is the incredible story of Zoe
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McBride the rower who could have had a
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gold medal but decided to put her mental
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health first let's go
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fast paced slow and steady anyway you
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coming up just wanna connect for
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everyone who loves running this is
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[Music]
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[Music]
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Runners only with dom Harvey and Zoe
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McBride hello Hi how are you you're good
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good you ready to place a run in there
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um get in there what do you mean getting
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there I I enjoy running I actually love
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running I've always loved it um post
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rolling has definitely been my time to
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get running back in my life it's been a
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little bit up and down
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I guess post Rowan and posts I guess the
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health kind of things my body went
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through I can't handle a huge load just
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with my bones and things right it's kind
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of like building that up but running is
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what gives me a lot of enjoyment and
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satisfaction so we get in there
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physically mentally or both mentally
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yeah and physically to be honest like I
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I think from coming from being an
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athlete like I love pushing my body and
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I guess running is one of those things
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where it's it's just you and your body
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you just need a pair of shoes and you
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can run anywhere and that's what I
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always found after regattas and
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competitions like if I was
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cross-training running is easy to do
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everywhere then pretty much every sport
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is easy to do compared to Rowan
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is not a sport that you can just yeah
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jump on when you're on holiday
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um with these well
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um thanks so much for joining me on on
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the podcast how do you know what are you
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now how old are you I'm 27 September
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27th you were the world champion by the
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age of 20. you won three World titles
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um when did you start rowing I started
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rolling year nine so I was about 13 yeah
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when I took it up first year of high
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school right why
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yeah I grew up like I did I did so many
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sports and definitely the Olympics was
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probably the first 2008 Olympics I
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remember seeing Ryan on the TV I
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remember the ever sundials race and then
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also my hair Drysdale where he raced the
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bronze when he was like severely sick
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but the main thing I remember that was
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just how did Rowan work like I could see
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them like coming going up and down the
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boat with these oars and things and just
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I guess figuring out how it worked what
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do you mean what do you mean how it
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worked I honestly like was I don't know
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what used how they were like on how they
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were going backwards and fours like I
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didn't know if they were sliding on
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their bums like I didn't know that they
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had seats in the boat it was just like
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it kind of fascinated me I think a lot
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of sports were looked quite simple I'd
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played them and Rowan was just yeah I'd
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never really been exposed to it
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um how does it work are you sliding on
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your bum no not in conventional rain
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there's some rowing that you do I think
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Surf Boat Ryan yeah put your budgies
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we're on it's like there's two slides
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and then you're on a seat with wheels on
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it so you're basically rolling up and
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down the slide on the seat
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um yeah with your feet strapped in to
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hold you in place how hard is it like to
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balance that boat is it surprisingly
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difficult yeah it is my first year I
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could not stay in a boat the club prize
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giving that yeah I won the best swimmer
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of the club because I fell out so many
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times
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um yeah I wasn't I wasn't a natural
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rower I guess I think that's probably
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what made me stick at it though because
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I wanted to be good at it and not being
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good at it not being good at it was
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um more annoying to me so you start when
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you're 13 when did you realize that you
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had sort of some potential or something
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um
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pretty early on we like we were really
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involved in the school racing and twice
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we're being so close we're headed down
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to every river ghetto we could
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um and
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we managed to find a double that clicked
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really well like there was only two of
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us at our school but we managed to make
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a combination that started to go fast in
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our first year we won
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um we got a third in the under 15 double
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at Nationals which was pretty cool the
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school Nationals and then I moved into
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the single the following year and it
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just seemed to move and I seemed to be
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producing good results and I think from
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there
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I just yeah I just kind of keep going
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and the training that I was doing
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just yeah was paying off and I seem to
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be performing so you start winning so
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you get a taste of that success yeah and
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then you just want more and more is that
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sort of yeah yeah pretty much I think
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for me it was kind of saying how fast I
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could go and I was I actually never
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thought of I think yeah and races I just
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tried to push myself as hard as I could
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and I felt like I kept having more that
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I could give or each year we just
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trained a little bit harder we trained a
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little bit smarter and I would improve
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so it was
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kind of like an addiction to improving I
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guess and seeing how fast I could go so
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the double that you're talking about
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that's sort of like what um Eric Murray
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and ham responded uh
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rather than one or two or two orders
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right but yeah the double is kind of so
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confusing there's so many different
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there's so many combinations yeah but
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two Aussie it's two like smaller oars
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um
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and yeah it's I mean the peers
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definitely the what Eric Murray did
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that's definitely harder to Rye I would
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say because you've got one or each
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person and that Dynamic has to be have
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to click really well but yeah for the
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double we just jumped in together and it
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seemed to go you were doing a thing
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called lightweight is that right yeah
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and what does that mean exactly so
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lightweight rowing is to race you have
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to be a certain race weight basically
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the crew average
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um for the double it's 57 kgs and then
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the single is 59 kgs okay so there's two
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of you on the double so you're allowed
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like a combined weight of 114. so it's a
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crew average of 57 kgs right yeah so
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you know I could be
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59 kgs but my doubles partner would have
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to be 55 kgs and 59 59 was the maximum
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weight you could be as a lightweight but
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you could as long as the crew average
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was 57 you could kind of play around but
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I mean at that weight there's not a lot
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to play around with anyway they um they
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still have that at school
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no they took it out that seems it seems
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mad yeah it was wild it came in I think
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the second or third GI was rowing so we
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did race it a few times
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um but they took it out a few years ago
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because it just I mean basically
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encouraging pretty obvious yeah that
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it's encouraging like disordered
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behaviors and I remember even when I was
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at school like some girls dieting that
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were
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you know about 14 15 years old and so
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I'm really glad that they did make that
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very smart decision to take it out what
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was your your sort of natural weight at
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high school I mean yeah I would say it
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was yeah I mean it High School it was 59
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kgs they didn't push you down to the 57
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but yeah I I mean I was young I didn't
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pay much attention to my weight but yeah
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I was around that weight yeah easily so
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but so you weren't
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you didn't have like in a position with
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the scales and weighing yourself through
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High School
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oh are you still dead I like I
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definitely weighed myself like more than
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I would have if I wasn't lightweight
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Ryan because I did have to be aware of
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it but I didn't like dye it down to it I
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didn't manipulate my weight in any way
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it was kind of like jump on like sweet
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it'll be we're racing kind of thing um
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and you didn't sort of go without any
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things for your high school years in
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terms of yeah like McDonald's in the
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weekend or k-fried or
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I felt that was a serious athlete part
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of me like
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you know
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exactly I yeah I took it quite seriously
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when I was young so I would say it was
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probably more my serious attitude rather
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than the lightweight but it could have
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influenced yeah so you leave school and
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then um you're the world champion at 20.
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where was that Verizon Italy right yeah
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you've got to go to some cool
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places didn't you yeah yeah no I yeah
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looking back on it now like it's
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incredible the countries that we went to
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there's a lot of things it's pretty cool
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like it's a pretty cool way to see the
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world so we set up the world champion at
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20 was that a single thing or was that a
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double yeah okay no that was actually
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France that was that was the single so I
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did not France at least
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all the places I think okay he's so
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confused yeah so there was a couple of
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like under 20 there was under 23 year
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prior to that but yeah that was in the
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single the lightweight single so that
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was a non-olympic boat class but um yeah
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it was at the world Champs and things
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how could that feel it was pretty cool
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it was pretty surreal
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um that year I was lucky enough to do
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the under 23 double and then do the
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single as well and for me like being the
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first year of a late set was kind of and
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being in the single like I loved the
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single because I spent so much time in
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it through school
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um being a small school so it was pretty
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cool just to
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yeah have the opportunity to race and I
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remember racing against you know like
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second third fourth were in their 30s
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and so I didn't really have these huge
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expectations
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um and yeah I remember it just being a
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really cool race like I was Bloody
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nervous but um yeah to grow and travel
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for three months as well like that was
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my first proper tour it felt quite
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surreal to be in that experience like
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yeah so young
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that's amazing you say you're so nervous
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did these you have nerves like good
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nerves or bad nerves before a big event
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um you know what I mean yeah
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it was it was like a little bit too many
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nerves um like how long beforehand a
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couple of days
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like in school I used to like we used to
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be driving up and I'd almost like wish
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that the wind would come up so it'd be
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cancer Rising like I don't know I put I
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put a lot of pressure on myself when I
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was younger and I think because I was
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quite successful from being at a young
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age like it just it added that pressure
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yeah um but yeah by the time I got
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overseas it was kind of like the day of
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stress but I think like a lot of things
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once you start warming up once you get
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into your processes like getting on the
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water then the nerves would go away a
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bit more it was kind of just
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anticipating what was coming
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um why because
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um just like fear of failure or fear of
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not living up to your potential or yeah
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I I was quite driven by fear of failure
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I think I yeah like I said I put really
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high expectations on myself and then
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um I guess through World rowing like I
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there was obviously like my first
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forgetter is
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um in the elite group in the single I
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set the world record and so there was a
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lot of expectation on there wow and I
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wasn't quite at the age where I was able
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to like deal with the expectations so I
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felt the pressure from others a lot and
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then they added to my own expectation so
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yeah it was a fear of failure and then I
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guess before I was actually on the water
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like I just felt out of control because
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I didn't like once I was on the water I
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had those things like I could control my
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warm-up I could control control
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um yeah the time frame that I got on the
00:12:14
water or what I was eating and things
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like that but yeah that morning of
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you've got your
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pre-rise routine but before that it's a
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little bit yeah just hectic oh I can't
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even begin to admit I'm the same with
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them running events I'm not even a very
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good runner like I'm I'm not going to
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win any races I'm not going to send any
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world records but I'll line up for an
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event and I'll be I'll be on the Casper
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vomiting beforehand and then as soon as
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you start running and doing yeah what
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you train for it's fine so yeah I cannot
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imagine the pressure and the stress and
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the anxiety of dealing with being that
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good at that age it's good but it's a
00:12:50
lot yeah like it helps drive you I think
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like the pressure is good to a point but
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then obviously when it gets to the point
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where it debilitates you then it's yeah
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not not super helpful anymore some
00:13:00
people thrive on that stuff over yeah
00:13:02
Roth over it yeah like I did at the same
00:13:05
time I loved the pressure like and even
00:13:07
now I feel like I perform the best when
00:13:09
I am under pressure because there's no
00:13:11
time to kind of muck around or yeah so
00:13:14
you leave school and you have all the
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success and then you're in your in your
00:13:17
20s when do you start because you're
00:13:19
still doing the lightweight thing where
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you've got to be like 57 kilos yeah when
00:13:23
does your weight start becoming like an
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issue
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um
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like looking
00:13:28
back on it it's hard to
00:13:32
say
00:13:33
2017 was the year that I moved from the
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single into the double so
00:13:38
um that weight went from 59 to 57 kgs
00:13:42
which doesn't sound like a lot but at
00:13:45
that same time I was probably
00:13:47
like
00:13:48
23 ish so I feel like that was like
00:13:52
along with my body kind of changing or
00:13:55
yeah been under dieting and kind of
00:13:57
weight restriction for a while so yeah
00:13:59
2017 was when I moved into the double
00:14:02
and that year was actually okay but it
00:14:04
was the year afterwards that I started
00:14:06
to get injuries and I hadn't been
00:14:07
injured up to that point and then the
00:14:09
off Seasons I would notice my weight
00:14:11
would bounce up quite a lot more than it
00:14:14
used to and so I guess that's when yeah
00:14:16
the stress and the more focused kind of
00:14:19
intensified yeah when you say you wait
00:14:21
you write about something off season
00:14:22
um like how much like early 60s yes I
00:14:25
would I was still not aware what are you
00:14:29
now you're sitting in front of me now
00:14:30
you look very healthy I'm probably like
00:14:31
65 right yeah right that's like a good
00:14:35
natural way for you okay yeah and I mean
00:14:37
like early 60s
00:14:39
like it's not like that was still
00:14:42
probably not a super healthy weight for
00:14:43
me at the time like it still could have
00:14:44
gone higher but for me and I was so
00:14:47
hyper fixated on the weight and the like
00:14:50
the higher my weight went The more
00:14:51
stress I had because then I had to think
00:14:53
about more weight losing and kind of
00:14:55
plan more weight into it and so it was
00:14:58
very much like a control thing for me
00:14:59
and I hated that it would increase more
00:15:02
than I had allowed it to in my mind
00:15:04
which is crazy that I thought that I
00:15:07
could control what my weight was going
00:15:08
to do and what my body was wanting to do
00:15:11
um but that's yeah that's what I thought
00:15:12
so you're just obsessing about food all
00:15:14
the time
00:15:15
yeah it was Obsession obsessing about
00:15:17
photosystem about weight like obsessing
00:15:19
over the scales and like even like to
00:15:22
the point where I was I would look at my
00:15:23
calories like post roll and think if I
00:15:26
burnt enough calories
00:15:28
um
00:15:28
enough calories I'd sit in my mind that
00:15:30
was an ideal amount
00:15:32
um deciding if I'd bike to trainings or
00:15:34
not that afternoon
00:15:36
um depending on the workload yeah I got
00:15:37
it differently infiltrated like most
00:15:40
areas of my life and how often are you
00:15:42
weighing yourself like every couple of
00:15:43
days
00:15:45
um there was a point that I would weigh
00:15:46
myself like morning post row and then
00:15:50
afternoon evening as well like it got
00:15:52
there was a while that yeah it was a lot
00:15:55
and then I think probably 2018
00:15:59
I got a little bit injured so I had time
00:16:01
off the bike and was a little bit
00:16:02
heavier for a while and then I just
00:16:04
completely avoided the scales like I
00:16:05
became scared of the scales and so then
00:16:07
that was like oh because you didn't want
00:16:09
to see the number because you knew it
00:16:11
wasn't yeah like if I didn't say the
00:16:12
number then I didn't have to deal with
00:16:13
it like I kind of went from your hyper
00:16:16
fixation to almost like avoidance
00:16:18
um yeah but you're avoiding it but you
00:16:20
also I was stressing about it and I was
00:16:22
curious about what I needed to do but I
00:16:24
was avoiding that because I don't know
00:16:26
it's like anything like if oh this is
00:16:28
like I'm sorry this is such a stressful
00:16:30
story what a way to Olivia were your
00:16:32
parents worried about you yes ah yeah I
00:16:36
think the issue was like they didn't
00:16:37
actually live with me like they were
00:16:40
down they were living down in Dunedin at
00:16:42
that point and I was up in Cambridge and
00:16:44
yeah I think everyone kind of knew that
00:16:47
lightweight was a bit of a struggle but
00:16:50
yeah like it's something that I was
00:16:52
doing I was successful and it was like
00:16:53
important for me to keep rolling so I
00:16:55
didn't want people to know as well like
00:16:57
what I like how I was struggling did you
00:17:00
like have a bit of guilt and shame I
00:17:01
guess yeah yeah yeah definitely and I
00:17:04
think
00:17:05
yeah like I wasn't stoked with what was
00:17:08
happening but for me I was like this is
00:17:10
the only way I can keep going and Rowing
00:17:12
and there was kind of no other option in
00:17:14
my mind and so I just to get to the
00:17:17
Olympics and to kind of keep going I
00:17:18
just had to keep doing the same thing
00:17:20
and yeah I was worried that if someone
00:17:22
kind of I'd talk to someone about it
00:17:24
then they would stop me and then it
00:17:27
would derail everything like it was I
00:17:29
guess it's like that Obsession that I
00:17:32
don't know and I feel like a lot of
00:17:33
people
00:17:34
like ambitious athletes and things like
00:17:36
you'll do anything to get to the top and
00:17:38
to keep going and I kind of took it a
00:17:40
bit far do you know um the Flanigan
00:17:42
sisters you know two raw sisters yeah I
00:17:44
had Rose Rosa on the podcast yeah
00:17:46
there's so many parallels with your
00:17:48
story and hers yeah absolutely she was
00:17:50
on land not water but um same sort of
00:17:52
thing yeah exactly and it I think it's
00:17:54
really hard like
00:17:56
it's it's not like a definitive line
00:17:59
like I feel like with so many things
00:18:01
you'd think like if I have a problem
00:18:03
I'll know and and the more you kind of
00:18:06
keep going you keep pushing that bar
00:18:08
back a little bit and you just yeah you
00:18:10
can kind of just fool yourself a little
00:18:11
bit because it's not it's not like black
00:18:14
and white it doesn't happen tomorrow
00:18:15
it's really really slow progression yeah
00:18:18
so did what what foods did you enjoy or
00:18:21
did you if you had food that you enjoyed
00:18:23
did you just feel like riddled with
00:18:25
guilt afterwards
00:18:27
I would try like not have foods that I
00:18:31
enjoyed
00:18:33
you must realize how up that
00:18:36
sounds yeah 100 like I it was brutal it
00:18:41
wasn't
00:18:42
yeah I think I like I do I definitely
00:18:44
wasn't didn't feel like myself you know
00:18:47
but I yeah so I would try not to have
00:18:50
foods that I enjoyed that much but when
00:18:51
I would I would kind of overdo it as
00:18:53
well so then I would feel guilty yeah it
00:18:56
wasn't like a balanced lifestyle yeah
00:18:58
what what foods did you enjoy obviously
00:19:01
like chocolate pizza burgers
00:19:04
I don't know just in as far what my body
00:19:06
needed like the fatty foods actually
00:19:09
craving as well for sure um I don't know
00:19:11
lava I have definitely have a sweet
00:19:13
tooth but oh don't we also don't we all
00:19:16
so um so so your big goal was the um the
00:19:20
Tokyo Olympic Games yeah it was yeah so
00:19:21
it was a couple of years ago and you
00:19:22
were partner on the doubles with um
00:19:24
Jackie Kettle yeah well first of all
00:19:26
before anything like so you talk about
00:19:28
this lightweight thing is it not like a
00:19:30
heavier class that you could have gone
00:19:31
into yeah there is right yeah yeah
00:19:34
why couldn't you do that like I could
00:19:37
have and I mean in 2017 I at Nationals I
00:19:40
won the Prem single I won yeah I won the
00:19:43
lightweight single and the Prem single
00:19:44
so I was like absolutely competitive in
00:19:46
it and I I'm sure I could have done it I
00:19:49
did consider it a few times but I think
00:19:51
I had been on that lightweight Journey
00:19:53
so I wanted to kind of keep going and
00:19:56
I'd almost like made that Mark and I'd
00:19:58
got to the point where I got the world
00:20:00
record I'd done the under 23 thing the
00:20:02
the lightweight single and then getting
00:20:04
into the double and the Olympics would
00:20:06
kind of just like I'd have done the
00:20:08
whole lightweight yeah
00:20:09
yeah like I would have yeah I would have
00:20:12
got them all I guess
00:20:13
um like Pokemons yeah
00:20:16
yeah I think it was there and then it
00:20:19
was also like fear of like if I was
00:20:22
gonna go into the other boats yeah like
00:20:26
at that point I was like didn't have a
00:20:28
great perception of my body and
00:20:30
um I was yeah fearful of like putting on
00:20:32
weight as well it's quite silly thinking
00:20:34
about it now but um
00:20:36
yeah I think I just wanted to finish
00:20:39
yeah sure lightweight yeah okay so so
00:20:41
you and you and Jackie how does the sort
00:20:44
of um partnership form like how do you
00:20:45
team up with a partner for the doubles
00:20:47
yeah so we have trials every year
00:20:50
um and that starts with the 2K ERG test
00:20:52
and a squash court with the selectors
00:20:54
watching you behind the glass screen uh
00:20:58
a coach behind you with a spew bin and
00:21:00
then a fan in front of you it's great
00:21:02
it's a great setup well so two
00:21:05
kilometers on the um yeah how long does
00:21:09
that take
00:21:10
um my PB is 656. so that's just like
00:21:13
absolute balls to the wall for seven
00:21:15
minutes yeah the first 250 meters you're
00:21:18
like no I got this and then about 350
00:21:21
and you're like okay I'm starting to
00:21:22
hurt right
00:21:24
get used
00:21:27
um I haven't used it to be honest but
00:21:29
yeah a lot of you had nothing to throw
00:21:30
up yeah a lot of people will manage to
00:21:34
get themselves outside and then lie on
00:21:36
the grass potentially spew there for a
00:21:38
while
00:21:39
if you weren't involved in the rowing
00:21:42
program you'd think it was some weird
00:21:44
type of torture you're not painting a
00:21:47
great picture of the sport I have to say
00:21:48
okay so you have the 2K test and then
00:21:52
it's like seat racing on the water so
00:21:53
seat racing is depending on how many
00:21:56
people you've got like sometimes we had
00:21:58
a few of us sometimes that was just like
00:22:00
Jackie and I trial in in the later years
00:22:01
but basically they'll go each morning
00:22:04
they'll give you Crow combinations
00:22:07
they'll tell you who's going out in the
00:22:08
water and they'll especially in a double
00:22:10
there's might be four people racing
00:22:11
they'll have X person X person together
00:22:14
you guys will race 1500 meters and then
00:22:17
you have a bit of a break you'll swap
00:22:18
Partners kind of thing they're just
00:22:20
trying to find the fastest combination
00:22:21
yeah like the Gap that has the biggest
00:22:24
lead
00:22:25
um and yeah so Jackie and I in 2017
00:22:30
yeah got seat racing down a good 2k time
00:22:34
and yeah we were putting the double
00:22:36
selected in the double so it's like an
00:22:38
arranged arranged relationship in a way
00:22:40
personality type doesn't come into it at
00:22:43
all it's just how fast you are yeah it's
00:22:45
solely performance on the water yeah I
00:22:48
think what if you hate the person
00:22:50
you just gotta get on with it I guess
00:22:52
it's like you're working acquaintance
00:22:54
like you don't need to love them but I
00:22:56
said get on them yeah just make it work
00:22:58
a good relationship definitely helps
00:23:00
though because then you're spending a
00:23:01
lot you can't discuss the hard things as
00:23:03
well yeah without yeah and you guys got
00:23:06
on good yeah we did yeah weird Road
00:23:09
together in central RPC before
00:23:12
um like yeah the regional performance
00:23:13
center when we're a bit younger and
00:23:15
we're done under 23s together as well in
00:23:16
2015 had a bit of a break so we'd
00:23:19
already like established a yeah a
00:23:21
connection and things so I mean how was
00:23:24
um how was her relationship with um with
00:23:26
food and the weight thing is that
00:23:28
something you've discussed always
00:23:28
honestly not something that we discussed
00:23:30
for a really long time I think it was
00:23:32
yeah I don't know you just you never
00:23:35
really talked about I guess it's that
00:23:37
whole mentality of like wanting to be
00:23:39
tough and not wanting I guess it's like
00:23:41
yeah it was kind of like the mental
00:23:42
health kind of yeah not wanting to show
00:23:45
weakness and I think and your sport as
00:23:47
well you don't want to have a weakness
00:23:49
and so it was and often talked about
00:23:51
sometimes we'd yeah talk about it a
00:23:53
little bit over the years as it was
00:23:55
getting closer away in times but
00:23:57
predominantly throughout the year you
00:23:58
just kind of got on with it so it's 2017
00:24:02
and you're rowing together when when
00:24:03
does it become clear to the peer review
00:24:06
that the Olympics are the big goal and
00:24:08
that you guys were a real hope
00:24:13
trial for the double along with Julia
00:24:16
and Sophie who were selected in the
00:24:18
double
00:24:19
um and from the end of the trial we were
00:24:21
both unsuccessful like we were pretty
00:24:23
upset and we kind of knew that we both
00:24:26
wanted to go to the Olympics in Tokyo so
00:24:29
I guess from there and even be like even
00:24:31
before that you always dream of going to
00:24:33
the Olympics but yeah from being
00:24:34
selected in the double and then we went
00:24:37
over to World Cups and we started you
00:24:39
know we started performing we got silver
00:24:41
at the world Champs in 2017 so we're
00:24:44
like we're actually competitive and this
00:24:45
is like realistic for us to yeah so you
00:24:48
got there you guys weren't weren't going
00:24:50
to make up numbers were you you're like
00:24:51
you you would have been a real shot yeah
00:24:54
definitely yeah
00:24:56
that's a lot of pressure though
00:24:58
isn't it yeah it is and there's like
00:25:00
there hasn't been many lightweights in
00:25:01
the program and from like there wasn't
00:25:04
back up for us either like Julia and
00:25:06
Sophie both stopped rowing after Rio
00:25:09
um and so there was
00:25:11
yeah there wasn't the depth like there
00:25:14
had been in some other squads um or even
00:25:16
with lightweight rollers overseas so
00:25:18
that was another pressure of kind of
00:25:19
like if something goes wrong like
00:25:21
there's no one there to take your spot
00:25:23
in some ways like what to keep the boat
00:25:24
going at like the level that we'd sited
00:25:27
at so this is um the Tokyo Olympics
00:25:29
we're talking about they were supposed
00:25:30
to be in
00:25:31
2020 2020 yeah and then uh due to covert
00:25:34
postponed to 2021 yeah yeah so when
00:25:37
when's the point where you get we where
00:25:39
you start to think this this
00:25:41
sucks and I can't do this for another
00:25:42
year or two years or whatever uh yeah so
00:25:45
it wasn't until the postponement that it
00:25:47
was kind of
00:25:48
um
00:25:49
more of that thought in my mind I mean
00:25:51
end of 2019 I knew that it was going to
00:25:55
be a push to get there but like there
00:25:57
wasn't an alternative of not going
00:26:00
um and so I had I was like too late to
00:26:02
pull out at that point if the if they
00:26:03
were going to go ahead is oh like not
00:26:04
even too late but I was just like
00:26:06
there's no way that I'm not going to the
00:26:07
Olympics like I was still yeah I was I'd
00:26:10
been working for that for so long and to
00:26:12
be less than a year away yeah like even
00:26:15
before they're never considered to me
00:26:16
that I it was never an option that I
00:26:18
wouldn't go
00:26:20
um and it was kind of more like you just
00:26:21
hang in you do what you got to do and
00:26:23
then afterwards deal with whatever's
00:26:25
going on okay so so then um covert comes
00:26:28
along and it's postponed well I suppose
00:26:30
it's even up in the year at that point
00:26:31
we didn't know if it was going to be
00:26:32
postponed right yeah so they they did
00:26:35
announce like the Clover came along it
00:26:37
took a while to announce postponement it
00:26:38
wasn't too long but even that like they
00:26:42
say it was postponed a year but you're
00:26:43
like is what is the world going to be
00:26:45
like in a year like yeah actually like
00:26:47
it's actually feasible to hold the
00:26:48
Olympics hours yeah it was up in the air
00:26:51
for a really long time whether that
00:26:53
postponement date would actually go
00:26:54
ahead so all this time I'm guessing you
00:26:55
were you were wrestling in your own mind
00:26:57
like with your own demons about whether
00:26:59
you keep going if this thing that you're
00:27:02
supremely talented it yeah or whether
00:27:04
you throw it away that must have been
00:27:06
like the hardest hardest decision ever
00:27:07
yeah so it was I remember first thinking
00:27:11
like 16 more months like at that
00:27:14
point I was five months away and to be
00:27:16
like 16 17 months so this was just
00:27:19
yeah it's hard but I feel like I still
00:27:22
was not like you're not possibly not
00:27:25
gonna go like I just didn't think about
00:27:27
it it was kind of like just not weighing
00:27:28
myself I just didn't think about like
00:27:30
that much I was like just get through
00:27:32
and then yeah I got a stress fracture in
00:27:34
my famous that took me out of the ERG
00:27:37
because we weren't actually rolling in
00:27:38
the water at that time so that ended up
00:27:40
being
00:27:42
six seven months like actually out of
00:27:45
the boat because I
00:27:47
yeah it just didn't heal for a long time
00:27:49
it took a while to like get back to
00:27:51
actually being in strength so I thought
00:27:53
that was kind of what I had to deal with
00:27:55
for a while and at that time I was
00:27:56
actually trying to get healthier because
00:27:58
I was like this is an opportunity to I
00:28:00
guess like do it right yeah fix yourself
00:28:02
yeah I was like I've got an extra year
00:28:04
maybe this is my chance to like do it
00:28:06
right and kind of improve my body and
00:28:09
then race but not in yeah and on how
00:28:12
like not on the unhealthy way that I had
00:28:14
been
00:28:15
um yeah but at this point did you still
00:28:17
enjoy training or would you wake up in
00:28:19
the morning and just sort of like Dread
00:28:21
the day ahead yeah to be honest I was
00:28:23
pretty over it I think I burnt myself
00:28:25
out a lot like 2019 was a great year
00:28:29
and
00:28:31
um I think though the years of stress of
00:28:35
State World Champs had just started to
00:28:37
catch up with me and I was burnt out in
00:28:38
like 2020 to like we never fully
00:28:41
addressed within the squad either like
00:28:43
how people were feeling with the
00:28:45
postponement because
00:28:46
you know what you make plans you you
00:28:49
after that 2019 that Olympic year like
00:28:52
you know that that's going to be a tough
00:28:54
year and we had been training really
00:28:55
hard everything else had just it was
00:28:58
just put on hold for a year and yeah the
00:29:02
postponement happened and it was kind of
00:29:04
just like move the goal post business as
00:29:06
usual so I really struggled with not
00:29:08
having those open conversations that
00:29:10
like yeah this actually really sucks
00:29:12
that it's been put off a year and I
00:29:13
think that definitely contributed to
00:29:16
just I was just burnt out and just
00:29:18
trying to push through but yeah
00:29:20
obviously the extra year to post their
00:29:22
next year is a huge that's amazing it's
00:29:24
a huge thing yeah oh yeah that just
00:29:26
seems daunting who who are you living
00:29:28
with who was in your support network who
00:29:30
could you vent to yeah so I went home
00:29:32
for a while
00:29:34
um I decided to get out of Cambridge so
00:29:35
I went to see mum and dad and I just had
00:29:37
an urk in the basement to try and try
00:29:39
and
00:29:40
um yeah I talked to them a little bit
00:29:42
but then it was also hard so I was like
00:29:43
I knew that they were so excited for me
00:29:46
to go to the Olympics and I knew how
00:29:47
much like I knew how proud of me they
00:29:50
would be and so I found it hard to talk
00:29:51
to family because I was like I don't
00:29:52
want to disappoint them
00:29:54
um so I guess like talking to my
00:29:56
boyfriend and a couple of friends but I
00:29:59
also felt at that point like I was
00:30:00
really scared to let people in because
00:30:03
I think I was like as soon as I start
00:30:05
talking about it's going to be more real
00:30:07
and then I have to deal with it and so
00:30:09
it was like still that same kind of
00:30:10
thing like I was trying to push it down
00:30:12
but I was bubbling over and it was kind
00:30:14
of like starting to leak and you know
00:30:15
things were coming out but um
00:30:18
yeah so I I started to have little
00:30:20
conversations here and there just like
00:30:21
testing the waters with friends and yeah
00:30:24
with my boyfriend like talking about
00:30:25
what would happen like if I didn't go
00:30:26
because your boyfriend he's a rower as
00:30:29
well at this point yeah yeah he was Ryan
00:30:30
too was he a lightweight or no he was in
00:30:34
the men's sweep Squad so he um he was
00:30:36
eating all the chocolate he wanted yeah
00:30:38
yeah he was good he didn't he didn't
00:30:40
like blatantly do it in my face
00:30:43
it was respectful every time you hit the
00:30:46
fridge door open you're like that
00:30:47
bastard yeah but then sometimes I think
00:30:49
I would like feed him not like well not
00:30:53
like feeling but like I would buy him
00:30:54
nice things because I was like I can't
00:30:56
have it but I like I want you to have it
00:30:57
for me so I can like feel you know like
00:31:00
I feel like I'm in this experience yeah
00:31:04
what were you um what were you like as a
00:31:06
I mean I don't know if you're the right
00:31:08
person to ask he he's probably the only
00:31:10
one that can answer this but what were
00:31:11
you like as a partner at that time it
00:31:13
sounds like you would have been angry
00:31:14
the whole time yeah I well you're pain
00:31:17
in the ass to be around or were you like
00:31:18
were you just sad emotional yeah yeah
00:31:25
yeah I definitely like couldn't have a
00:31:29
laugh as easy you know like
00:31:33
uh yeah people have done well to stick
00:31:37
through me like through those phases
00:31:39
yeah you're probably not the easiest
00:31:40
person to be mates with through this
00:31:42
time
00:31:43
yeah like I yeah I don't know I think
00:31:46
with rowing though
00:31:48
like everyone was tired so it was kind
00:31:50
of acceptable to not be the most vibrant
00:31:53
person because we did train so hard we
00:31:55
trained like 24 to 30 hours a week kind
00:31:58
of thing so everyone's just destroyed
00:32:00
yeah yeah so to not have much of a
00:32:04
personality was like quite normal for a
00:32:07
lot of people so it kind of went a
00:32:09
little bit under the rug as well but if
00:32:11
you're doing that sort of training um
00:32:14
select say an average of four hours at
00:32:17
four hours a day or whatever it happens
00:32:18
to be yeah you need to fuel the machine
00:32:21
yeah you do that's what I like about
00:32:22
about running I go for a long run I can
00:32:24
eat whatever the yeah yeah yeah
00:32:26
yeah yeah unbelievable your poor body
00:32:28
yeah I don't know how like I actually
00:32:31
don't know how I did well like I ate
00:32:34
enough but I didn't
00:32:36
I ate enough to get through but it was
00:32:39
pretty minimal
00:32:40
um be great to like it's great to think
00:32:42
how fast it would have been if I had
00:32:43
actually ate him properly wow
00:32:48
so you're back home at your parents with
00:32:50
the rowing machine in the basement and
00:32:52
you sort of test the waters there about
00:32:54
about you maybe not going to the
00:32:56
Olympics and so so when you leave them
00:32:59
and go back to Cambridge where are
00:33:00
things at at that point yeah so I guess
00:33:02
by the time I was like in Cambridge a
00:33:04
few months rehab and then September 2020
00:33:07
I was like getting back in the boat
00:33:10
um at this point this is like one year
00:33:11
out from the Olympics yeah yeah so it's
00:33:14
yeah we've got we've got through kind of
00:33:17
the shitty on land training program had
00:33:21
a bit of a break
00:33:22
yeah they pushed our break back a little
00:33:24
bit and gave us like four weeks off
00:33:26
which was nice
00:33:28
um and then yes I was coming back and
00:33:30
and I was like inspired to keep going by
00:33:35
what like I it was it's just like that
00:33:38
dream of going to the Olympics like I
00:33:40
had been my drone for as long as I could
00:33:42
imagine and I couldn't imagine not
00:33:44
fulfilling that you know I suppose for
00:33:46
you like it's um I mean it's a dream in
00:33:48
itself I've had some people on the
00:33:49
podcast like um my friend Camille bus
00:33:51
come from Hamilton and for her she's
00:33:54
probably never going to win like an
00:33:55
Olympic medal yeah for her success would
00:33:58
be I suppose just going to the Olympics
00:34:00
but you you're not just going there to
00:34:03
make up numbers like you're you're a
00:34:05
real chance it you know standing on the
00:34:07
podium yeah I mean we won at World
00:34:09
Champs in 2019 so like we were going in
00:34:12
as the world champions yeah it wasn't to
00:34:14
go to the Olympics I think to go to the
00:34:16
Olympics in that place I would have been
00:34:17
disappointed like I wouldn't have
00:34:19
enjoyed my Olympic experience like that
00:34:21
was kind of the level that I was at at
00:34:22
that time yeah we were going there to
00:34:25
win
00:34:25
um that's like what we're revolved our
00:34:27
year around was winning it was there
00:34:29
wasn't another option to be on honest
00:34:31
man that must make the decision not to
00:34:33
go even harder yeah and it's it's not
00:34:35
only that it's it's yeah obviously it's
00:34:38
like that internal pressure and those
00:34:40
results and and wanting to achieve and
00:34:42
knowing that you're in a position to
00:34:43
achieve but it's like I'm with like
00:34:45
Jackie is in my doubles partner like
00:34:46
we've been through this whole journey
00:34:48
together these past few years we've rode
00:34:49
together we've like shared tears Blood
00:34:52
Sweat miles and miles and miles on the
00:34:55
water and yeah it it wasn't just about
00:34:58
me it was about her as well like and it
00:35:00
was about her dream of like winning at
00:35:02
the Olympics and
00:35:03
um oh yeah her journey we we've got to
00:35:06
get to that but I I
00:35:08
um I cannot imagine that conversation oh
00:35:11
my God how do you
00:35:14
did she have an inkling something wasn't
00:35:16
right with you or yeah she had and I
00:35:18
know my coach had like her and my coach
00:35:20
had talked about it too like I was just
00:35:24
I didn't I did everything like I I could
00:35:28
until I got to that point and I kind of
00:35:30
I didn't real yeah I refused to I left
00:35:33
it till like as long as I could once I'd
00:35:35
like exhausted all my options but yeah
00:35:38
that was a conversation that I dreaded
00:35:39
and at like the last month I guess like
00:35:42
when I was actually pretty seriously
00:35:44
trying to make the decision it was
00:35:46
yeah just so much guilt of what would
00:35:49
happen if I decided that I couldn't go
00:35:51
oh I can only imagine yeah okay so so
00:35:54
when do you so when do you make the my
00:35:57
make your own mind up there you're not
00:35:58
going to the Olympics and then how far
00:36:00
after that do you do you tell Jackie
00:36:02
yeah so we had Nationals in Feb 21 so
00:36:06
last year and like I love Nationals it
00:36:08
was so great I feel like I definitely
00:36:10
wasn't at my fittest but I knew that I
00:36:11
was like pretty close to like being
00:36:14
there so I was like I can do it I can
00:36:16
make it
00:36:18
um but then after that I guess was when
00:36:19
I had to start losing weight over that
00:36:22
summer I'd actually been or half the
00:36:24
summer anyway I'd been keto because I
00:36:26
was like
00:36:27
if I'm not
00:36:29
yeah I was like I don't want to diet
00:36:31
stupidly and so maybe like cutting out
00:36:34
carbs and kind of doing that thing will
00:36:36
help me you also need carbs to try it
00:36:40
you're doing oh my yeah
00:36:43
um and so I'd done that for a while and
00:36:45
like I felt really fat I felt really
00:36:47
strong and my body actually felt really
00:36:49
good but I just I wasn't near Raceway
00:36:51
like I was I probably had like six and a
00:36:54
half kgs to lose
00:36:55
and so I started trying to lose weight
00:36:58
after Nationals and like over that
00:37:00
summer it just wasn't really going
00:37:01
anywhere and then I guess I started like
00:37:05
dieting a little bit and that's when I
00:37:06
was like hold up like I can't do this
00:37:08
and I'd like I'd promised myself that I
00:37:10
wasn't going to do that and I just I
00:37:12
didn't want to do that again like
00:37:14
from that year when it was almost a year
00:37:16
the year that I'd been in like my lowest
00:37:18
point and I was like I don't I can't put
00:37:20
myself back into that place purposefully
00:37:22
for
00:37:23
like a game you know like it was it was
00:37:26
a it's a sport it's like
00:37:29
um not worth sacrificing my body so that
00:37:31
was you know march-ish that I made
00:37:34
I talked to my psychologists heaps and
00:37:37
then I talked to my doctor and I was
00:37:38
like just have to make the decision like
00:37:40
I'm the worst decision maker in the
00:37:41
world so it took me so long to get to it
00:37:43
but yeah after Nationals I was like
00:37:45
there's no other option and I either
00:37:47
make it now or I keep dragging it out
00:37:49
and then I'm kind of impacting other
00:37:51
people even more I suppose it would have
00:37:53
been an easier decision to make if it
00:37:55
was just you yeah
00:37:57
um is that what made it an extra hard
00:37:58
decision absolutely yeah yeah and it was
00:38:00
like it was the partnership it was
00:38:02
everything and it was like the
00:38:03
partnership that we built together and
00:38:06
um yeah so it's like it's not just
00:38:08
thinking about yourself and if it was
00:38:10
just about myself it would be easier and
00:38:12
there was like part of me that was like
00:38:13
maybe I'll just get injured and then I
00:38:15
can't go like then this is the fact that
00:38:16
the decision was in my hands was the
00:38:18
hardest book
00:38:20
um yeah but once I made the decision or
00:38:22
once I got once I kind of tipped over
00:38:24
the like the 50 50 point I was like I
00:38:27
know I've just got to have those
00:38:28
conversations it's sucky as they're
00:38:30
gonna be oh my God I'm such a gutless
00:38:32
piece of
00:38:33
um I'd ghost I Rhythm yeah
00:38:37
what happened to Zoe I don't know I
00:38:39
don't know you never know who does okay
00:38:42
so when is it like March April March
00:38:44
April yeah it was like last year and so
00:38:47
the games are in August yeah so it's
00:38:49
like four months away yeah
00:38:52
wow they're just so close okay
00:38:54
now this is getting the good but well
00:38:56
the good bit for me probably a terrible
00:38:57
for you so um yeah your partner yeah
00:39:00
Jackie yeah so how does how does this
00:39:02
happen you go around and see her at home
00:39:04
you finish training no so
00:39:07
let's continue playing on flight mode I
00:39:11
talked to my coach and he said yeah I
00:39:14
talked to my coach first and then he was
00:39:15
like our organized conversation it's
00:39:18
quite funny he's like I'll take you guys
00:39:20
the valid drawing because then we're in
00:39:21
like a neutral Place
00:39:23
No One's Gonna See us or hear us like
00:39:26
things get out of hand or we're leaving
00:39:29
separately
00:39:31
um
00:39:32
yeah so we yeah we're at the velodrome
00:39:35
and like I'm pretty sure I was crying
00:39:37
before I even went and I don't think I
00:39:38
could even like talk to any of them like
00:39:40
before while we were going and
00:39:43
um check he must have no one I yeah and
00:39:45
I think like yeah she knew that I was
00:39:47
struggling we'd talked like a little bit
00:39:48
about it but I think my yeah like my
00:39:51
coach had talked to her a little bit as
00:39:52
well and kind of been like
00:39:54
you know if this is gonna happen like
00:39:57
what you know like he kind of warmed it
00:40:00
up a little bit obviously
00:40:03
it was yeah obviously like even though
00:40:06
he'd had those conversations like I
00:40:08
don't think
00:40:10
she thought like that was what was going
00:40:12
to happen like I mean it's like anything
00:40:13
you always want to stay positive and say
00:40:15
like yes that's an option but you know
00:40:17
we can do this kind of yeah yeah you got
00:40:19
this 24 more months yeah yeah so yeah it
00:40:22
was
00:40:23
undoubtedly like the hardest
00:40:25
conversation and like up to that point I
00:40:27
hated having hard conversations
00:40:29
every
00:40:32
difficult conversation you have in life
00:40:34
is not going to be as difficult yeah
00:40:36
that sucks yeah shedding on someone
00:40:38
else's Olympic stream yeah
00:40:44
how does she take it to sheep is she
00:40:46
does she go through the stages of grief
00:40:48
like to initiated yeah angry at all or
00:40:50
yeah like yeah there was and like I I
00:40:52
didn't blame her like I I completely
00:40:54
accepted it because I was like I would
00:40:56
go through the exact same process like
00:40:57
there's a there's a whole lot of things
00:40:59
coming up here and emotions and like it
00:41:03
wasn't my place to justify them or to
00:41:05
try and make her feel better it was just
00:41:06
like to be there and talk about it and
00:41:09
respect what she needed from me
00:41:12
um
00:41:13
yeah so it was
00:41:17
yeah it was I was very emotional like
00:41:19
for everyone yeah
00:41:21
um no one likes to have those
00:41:22
conversations like I didn't like to have
00:41:25
a conversation but like we needed to be
00:41:27
we needed like the conversation like we
00:41:29
went in there were like just
00:41:30
everything's on the table you know like
00:41:32
whatever you want to talk about this is
00:41:33
where we talk about it and I think that
00:41:35
was really good for both of us because
00:41:36
you know like if she wanted to get angry
00:41:39
like or she wanted to say things like or
00:41:41
if I wanted to say things like that was
00:41:43
the place to do it so that we could kind
00:41:45
of process them those emotions was that
00:41:48
just absolutely no plan B like it isn't
00:41:52
not not someone else they could have
00:41:53
checked on the boat for four months and
00:41:54
yeah see this was this was like a bit of
00:41:57
the issue
00:41:59
um like there wasn't any lightweights
00:42:01
that had been kept around in rural New
00:42:03
Zealand or developed like there was
00:42:05
different there was lightweights around
00:42:06
but there was a Gap a huge gap between
00:42:09
like them and us like we had been the
00:42:11
only lightweights in the summer Squad
00:42:13
and the Royal New Zealand program for
00:42:14
those couple of years so they weren't
00:42:15
training the same as us or anything and
00:42:17
so
00:42:18
that was a lot of pressure on the both
00:42:19
of us like that it was us or nothing
00:42:21
kind of thing like there's no second
00:42:22
person
00:42:23
um I think yeah there was someone that
00:42:26
jumped in for like a few weeks to see if
00:42:27
they could kind of take the place but
00:42:30
they made they made the decision that
00:42:32
the boat just wasn't kind of yeah gonna
00:42:35
make it in time and
00:42:38
um that it was kind of better just to
00:42:40
leave it and then Jackie unfortunately
00:42:42
it didn't happen because of covert but
00:42:44
she was going to go and rest a single
00:42:45
and sit at the world Champs
00:42:48
um
00:42:48
that she could have her race there
00:42:51
um but yeah obviously that didn't happen
00:42:53
in the end and how's um how's the
00:42:55
relationship now she put a really nice
00:42:57
post up on Instagram at the time yeah
00:42:59
and like she she was amazing like she
00:43:01
was really supportive like
00:43:03
you go through your emotions but at the
00:43:05
end of the day and like she reiterated
00:43:07
it in that room like she was like I
00:43:09
support you no matter what and like I
00:43:10
would never want you to sacrifice
00:43:12
yourself like that and it was like
00:43:14
and that's exactly what I would have
00:43:16
been like as well like there's the grief
00:43:18
of losing her dream but you don't want
00:43:20
to put someone else's life and health on
00:43:23
the line or at risk because of your own
00:43:26
dream as well like there's there's I
00:43:28
think sometimes when you are in sport
00:43:30
like when you're young you don't realize
00:43:31
this but there's so much outside of
00:43:32
sport that's actually really important
00:43:34
as well
00:43:35
um and it's about
00:43:36
yeah realizing that sometimes that needs
00:43:38
to take priority was part of you I guess
00:43:42
scared in a way that so you start this
00:43:44
this journey when you're 13 and then
00:43:46
you're 25 and you've just been so for
00:43:49
half your life you've been this um
00:43:50
successful rower and you're about to go
00:43:51
to the Olympics was was part of you
00:43:53
afraid that like it was what defined you
00:43:56
oh absolutely yeah that was it was what
00:43:58
defined me like I hadn't Oh no in your
00:44:02
mind it was yeah in my mind yeah no no
00:44:04
yeah yeah you're right in my mind it was
00:44:06
what defined me because like you said
00:44:08
like I had been so successful early and
00:44:10
so many of those conversations and
00:44:11
Praises came from Rowan and so I
00:44:14
Associated that and when I did get
00:44:16
injured
00:44:18
um there was an injury that I had in
00:44:19
2018 and that's where I kind of started
00:44:20
to realize that I was a little bit like
00:44:24
in the danger zone of that's what Ryan
00:44:25
was what I thought to find me
00:44:28
um
00:44:29
so I think by the time it got to 2021
00:44:32
like I was more aware of and I had done
00:44:36
more to establish myself like my
00:44:38
personal identity outside of Rowan
00:44:41
um but yeah I mean especially like
00:44:44
sports when you're in like a centralized
00:44:47
program you live like you move to be in
00:44:50
that area you flat with people that row
00:44:53
most your friendships are with rollers
00:44:57
um you know every single day you're
00:44:58
around the environment like it's pretty
00:45:00
hard to separate yourself from that as
00:45:02
well so it's a pretty big adjustment
00:45:03
yeah yeah when you when you first turn
00:45:06
your back on it it must just feel
00:45:08
I don't know it's surreal yeah initially
00:45:11
it was like amazing because I had been
00:45:15
burnt up I was like a massive weight off
00:45:17
your shoulders it was a huge weight of
00:45:18
my weight off my shoulders and just like
00:45:20
a huge release of pressure and it was
00:45:23
like I could actually just do things for
00:45:25
myself and prioritize like my own needs
00:45:27
and health and things and eating all the
00:45:29
chocolate
00:45:33
oh I told people that I did that but it
00:45:36
did take me quite a while to get there
00:45:38
like there's like a lot of yeah there
00:45:40
was a lot of like fixation and focus on
00:45:43
my weight that I've really had to work
00:45:45
on like post that
00:45:47
um because that was another thing that I
00:45:48
thought that defined me was my weight
00:45:51
um and I guess that's from a lot of your
00:45:53
prayers coming from when you're 57 kgs
00:45:55
because that's when you're winning
00:45:56
things and so that was definitely a work
00:45:58
on but I mean having a boyfriend helps
00:46:01
to just eat chocolate and treats and
00:46:05
things so like yeah I feel like I slowly
00:46:08
kind of just did it through like the
00:46:09
people that I lived with yeah yeah
00:46:12
um and you mentioned before
00:46:13
um seeing a psychologist when did you
00:46:16
start seeing a psychologist I'd been
00:46:18
saying like we'd had Sports
00:46:19
psychologists in Rowan and things um so
00:46:21
I'd been seeing them like on and off
00:46:23
over the years but as a sports
00:46:25
psychologist the same as like just a
00:46:26
normal psychologist that yeah someone
00:46:28
might go there yeah I mean a lot of our
00:46:30
psychologists were clinical
00:46:31
psychologists so they were fully trained
00:46:33
and they're done on
00:46:35
yeah they're done they'd practice in
00:46:37
other areas and things before moving to
00:46:39
sport so they were available there for
00:46:42
that but I guess in 2000 and it was it
00:46:45
2020 I sought out someone else that was
00:46:48
outside the room because I was like I
00:46:49
just want to separate this from rowing
00:46:51
because everything wasn't wrong you know
00:46:53
even your appointments were at Ryan and
00:46:54
I couldn't separate those two things in
00:46:57
my mind and I was like I just need to
00:46:58
find someone that had literally knows
00:47:00
nothing about Rowan and kind of doesn't
00:47:01
care about Rome
00:47:03
um so that's what I did
00:47:05
and I was lucky that I had like support
00:47:07
from my doctor and things that were in
00:47:09
New Zealand so I had funding for that to
00:47:11
go and do that and I think that really
00:47:13
helped because it just yeah it helped me
00:47:15
he didn't know anyone that was there he
00:47:17
didn't care about Rowan and like in many
00:47:19
ways like he cared about me and I mean
00:47:21
the other psychologist there I know
00:47:23
would have been the same but for me I
00:47:24
couldn't differentiate the two areas of
00:47:27
my life yeah and is that about the time
00:47:29
you were diagnosed with depression yeah
00:47:32
about that time yeah I I was diagnosed I
00:47:35
had seen another clinical site before
00:47:37
that actually she was she was like an
00:47:39
independent one that was with high
00:47:41
performance but she left and so that was
00:47:43
when I went to seek someone else out
00:47:45
um yeah and she kind of
00:47:47
yeah diagnosed me with that and then so
00:47:51
yeah I moved to another psych after that
00:47:52
yeah okay
00:47:54
glm so the Depression was basically wow
00:47:57
it's the craziest thing so there's this
00:48:00
thing that you you're good at and you
00:48:01
did once love and now it's it's making
00:48:04
you depressed yeah I think it was just
00:48:07
just a combination of like the
00:48:09
environment the pressure that I put on
00:48:11
myself
00:48:12
obviously like yeah the dieting and the
00:48:16
distorted relationship with food and
00:48:18
everything like it was just a huge like
00:48:20
it was just too much and I just couldn't
00:48:22
deal with it in a healthy way anymore
00:48:25
um so yeah it did have a big effect on
00:48:27
me and I like it definitely made me
00:48:29
forget why I enjoyed the sport and made
00:48:32
me forget why I was doing it yeah and
00:48:35
how were the Olympics last year like
00:48:37
watching it
00:48:38
um yeah that one took me by surprise a
00:48:40
little bit like I was quite emotional
00:48:43
watching them and I was actually yeah I
00:48:45
talked about it with my psyche and he
00:48:46
was like you know like when you before I
00:48:49
even like stopped rowing and announced
00:48:51
it like I had let go of my identity of
00:48:53
being as the rower and I'd let go of
00:48:55
that kind of dream but I hadn't dealt
00:48:58
with the dream of going to the Olympics
00:48:59
so I think that's what came up for me
00:49:01
like it wasn't it wasn't like a jealousy
00:49:03
thing it wasn't like a wish I was there
00:49:05
when I was watching the doubles and
00:49:07
things that was just like yeah the
00:49:10
realization that that actually wasn't
00:49:12
going to be me because when I did stop
00:49:14
everyone was doing the same thing they
00:49:16
were training that's what we've been
00:49:17
doing for the last two years we hadn't
00:49:18
gone anywhere
00:49:20
um just trying to like Kara Perry so
00:49:21
nothing had changed in that environment
00:49:23
but being overseas and seeing it even
00:49:25
just watching the double and the
00:49:26
commentators would like mention Jackie
00:49:28
and I who had won the previous year and
00:49:30
things and it was yeah it was just
00:49:33
dealing with that and the emotions that
00:49:35
came up with
00:49:37
yeah like they're not going and
00:49:39
realizing that like
00:49:40
for real yeah what's your what's your
00:49:43
identity now you're no longer Zoe the
00:49:45
rower how would you um how would you
00:49:47
identify yourself now how do you think
00:49:49
other people would identify you
00:49:52
that's hard because I've been like
00:49:53
really careful not to put like an
00:49:55
identity on myself right
00:49:59
I feel I guess like multifaceted you
00:50:02
know like I well no one needs to yeah
00:50:04
exactly and I think
00:50:06
yeah even after sport a lot of people
00:50:09
put pressure on themselves to find the
00:50:10
next thing and achieve it the next thing
00:50:12
so that's been hard to like overcome and
00:50:14
realize that you can do something you
00:50:16
can do exercise for the enjoyment of it
00:50:17
rather than needing to be the best and
00:50:20
like in the gym and things that was hard
00:50:22
for a while to wrap my head around like
00:50:23
you just used to being like great at
00:50:25
something so well that's the thing like
00:50:28
that labeling it only comes along when
00:50:30
you're wildly successful at something
00:50:32
yeah like absolutely I had Karen Reed on
00:50:34
the podcast like he will always be care
00:50:36
and Reed the rugby player because he was
00:50:38
that good yeah Eric Murray I've had him
00:50:40
on he's not going to be known as Eric
00:50:41
the dancer is he no
00:50:43
although he did do well but yeah exactly
00:50:46
exactly and it's when it becomes like a
00:50:49
public thing as well that's when that
00:50:50
label really
00:50:53
um I guess cements itself in your own
00:50:55
brain because that's what you say oh
00:50:56
yeah
00:50:57
you know like news about yeah yeah how's
00:51:00
your how's your mental health now are
00:51:01
you good yeah it is good I think for me
00:51:03
like it really took getting out of that
00:51:05
environment and things changed a lot so
00:51:07
it was definitely like environmentally
00:51:09
based
00:51:10
um you know like there's been work to do
00:51:12
and I feel like still sometimes like
00:51:14
there's things that come up but that's
00:51:15
part of being a human as well we have
00:51:17
those Ebbs and flows of life
00:51:20
um so yeah for me it's been learning
00:51:22
what's healthy for me and what keeps me
00:51:24
on track yeah
00:51:26
um yeah to kind of deal with things when
00:51:28
they do come up yeah you're still seeing
00:51:30
a therapist every now and then every now
00:51:32
and then yeah
00:51:33
um yeah which I think is helpful to have
00:51:35
that person there to talk things through
00:51:37
like I just enjoy having that neutral
00:51:40
non-biased person
00:51:43
um yeah it's not it's nice it's wow I
00:51:46
was scared of going yeah going to
00:51:48
therapy for the first time because I was
00:51:49
like what like I I don't know why I feel
00:51:52
bummed out and I I don't I don't know
00:51:54
where to start so you're sitting in a
00:51:55
room with a stranger it's the most
00:51:56
terrifying thing and then a
00:51:58
bunch of friends of mine said to me oh
00:51:59
yeah I've been you know sometimes it
00:52:01
takes a few sessions before you realize
00:52:03
if it's the person that you collect with
00:52:04
or not and I thought oh I dreaded the
00:52:06
thought of going and seeing someone for
00:52:07
a couple of hours or whatever yeah and
00:52:08
then having to do it again and yeah have
00:52:10
that initial conversation but it was
00:52:12
fabulous yeah 100 I find that I would
00:52:14
just be able to talk about anything
00:52:15
because they didn't know me so it didn't
00:52:16
matter what I told them like they didn't
00:52:18
have any preconceived notion or anything
00:52:20
about me
00:52:22
um and it's nice like to go to therapy
00:52:24
and like you're validated for what
00:52:26
you're feeling and they're like this is
00:52:28
actually
00:52:29
you know like it's not you I think so
00:52:31
often we take things and we put them on
00:52:33
ourselves we're like it's a me problem
00:52:34
or like there's something wrong with me
00:52:36
but it's actually not it's there's so
00:52:38
many people that experience this and
00:52:39
it's a product of XYZ and things so it's
00:52:42
nice to have that yeah it just gives you
00:52:44
a different way of reframing things and
00:52:45
looking at things eh absolutely yeah and
00:52:47
you're never gonna have a therapist that
00:52:48
says come on Zoe are you being silly
00:52:49
suck it up come on exactly it's the
00:52:51
Olympics exactly yeah yeah
00:52:54
oh that's good that's good oh you seem
00:52:57
really well now you seem really happy
00:52:58
yeah I am yeah yeah I've yeah I've got
00:53:01
some new things I'm working towards and
00:53:03
I feel like I hear like what like I'm
00:53:05
studying
00:53:07
um yes I'm actually doing some
00:53:09
psychology studying now uh which is
00:53:13
challenging exciting and I guess it's
00:53:16
given me like a new kind of purpose like
00:53:18
I feel yeah like from my time as being
00:53:21
an athlete like I loved it but it was
00:53:22
also like it was about me and so now I
00:53:25
feel like what I'm doing to study is
00:53:26
like it's about what I want to do for
00:53:28
other people so that's yeah it's really
00:53:30
inspiring to me to keep going and it's
00:53:32
it's cool to be and yeah it's definitely
00:53:35
a change being in uni like properly yeah
00:53:37
yeah we're recording this in my um hotel
00:53:40
room and you came straight here from the
00:53:42
University Library where you've been all
00:53:43
day yeah yeah yeah and like the crunch
00:53:45
week at the moment so that's
00:53:48
um
00:53:49
yeah I can't wait for the uni break yeah
00:53:51
well I feel like um you know what you
00:53:54
did as an athlete it's almost like
00:53:55
transferable skills in a way and I think
00:53:57
so you've you've got a competitive
00:53:59
spirit and that drive so that whatever
00:54:00
you put your mind to you'll probably do
00:54:01
well yeah exactly and that's yeah I mean
00:54:04
you always hear people talking about
00:54:05
those transferable skills but then until
00:54:07
you actually get into situations yeah
00:54:09
like study or work and things where I'm
00:54:11
like okay like I've actually I know how
00:54:14
to work hard I know how to work Under
00:54:15
Pressure I know how to like work in the
00:54:18
team and things like that so it's
00:54:19
actually those skills are so valuable
00:54:21
and even now I feel like we are we're in
00:54:23
the stressful week but I know how like
00:54:25
it's almost like I thrive under the
00:54:27
pressure like that's what racing is and
00:54:29
things so it's kind of makes me feel
00:54:31
like better than usual yeah yeah and
00:54:34
what's your relationship with um the
00:54:35
sport of rowing like now when you think
00:54:36
about rowing like dude you still enjoy
00:54:39
like watching it do you have fun
00:54:41
memories of the sport yeah do you look
00:54:43
back and sort of Shadow no lots of fond
00:54:45
memories like lots and lots of fun
00:54:47
memories like there's the people that
00:54:49
you meet overseas there's the friends
00:54:50
that you make through the sport that's
00:54:52
how you met your boyfriend isn't it yeah
00:54:54
exactly and it's like the travel like
00:54:56
that we got to do
00:54:58
basically you know
00:55:00
um every single year for a couple of
00:55:02
months at the time of at a time
00:55:04
um not that you got to experience the
00:55:06
delicious foods overseas yeah exactly
00:55:09
I'm gonna need to like redo that one
00:55:13
so many things I missed out food wise
00:55:16
but yeah I feel like I look back at
00:55:18
right now I'm like I could do it in some
00:55:20
capacity in like a fun way yeah yeah
00:55:23
right that's cool that's healthy yeah
00:55:25
and how long you and your boyfriend been
00:55:26
together a couple of years a couple of
00:55:28
years right and he's not he's not rowing
00:55:30
anymore either no he's not but they
00:55:32
actually him and a few mates they
00:55:34
started it's called like barbarians Ryan
00:55:36
club and the idea of it was kind of
00:55:38
rollers that have represented New
00:55:40
Zealand or competited at a high level
00:55:43
um like coming back to do it socially
00:55:45
and for fun because I guess it's like we
00:55:46
said earlier like rowing is really hard
00:55:48
to do once you're not rowing properly
00:55:49
and there's not really like a social
00:55:53
there's lots of Masters roles that do it
00:55:55
but yeah they kind of establish this
00:55:57
club that trains by them like they kind
00:55:59
of train in their respective areas and
00:56:00
then they'll Target like a couple of
00:56:01
regattas whether it's Nationals and then
00:56:03
going overseas and things like for the
00:56:05
enjoyment of rowing and to race with
00:56:07
your mates and so yeah yeah hopefully we
00:56:09
can kind of get a bit more traction on
00:56:11
that in the next couple of years after
00:56:12
the delays and covert and things because
00:56:15
it's such a cool idea like to do it and
00:56:17
like it's been great for yeah like
00:56:19
people's mental health and to still be
00:56:21
like doing the sport and remembering why
00:56:23
you enjoyed it because I think rowing is
00:56:26
easy to kind of leave with negative like
00:56:28
I mean sometimes sport you can leave
00:56:30
with negative views because and there's
00:56:31
also no way to kind of find yourself
00:56:33
back to the sport until this point yeah
00:56:36
I feel like that happens a lot like um
00:56:38
have you ever read the Andre Agassi book
00:56:40
open yeah right he hates tennis yeah
00:56:43
yeah he hates everything and it's given
00:56:45
him so much but it's also taken away so
00:56:47
yeah absolutely and I think yeah for
00:56:50
like for so many people like it does
00:56:52
drain you and some people don't get
00:56:54
traded well they don't achieve the
00:56:56
things that they want to achieve so that
00:56:57
is yeah like really paints a negative
00:56:59
View and I think it's really important
00:57:01
like if you're in the position to to
00:57:03
like try and find your way back and like
00:57:05
remember why you loved it so you can
00:57:07
kind of go back if that's what you want
00:57:09
to do or yes and and what's your uh
00:57:14
what's your thoughts now on like um yeah
00:57:16
high performance Sport and stuff like
00:57:17
that like do you feel like I'm in the
00:57:19
wrong like you you did get enough
00:57:20
support and enough help or do you feel
00:57:22
like more could have been done for you
00:57:24
yeah I think it's interesting there's
00:57:26
obviously been like a a lot of invest
00:57:28
like things come out recently I think
00:57:31
that
00:57:33
there was always support there and like
00:57:37
I didn't seek it out
00:57:40
because I was a because of kind of the
00:57:43
you know like you needed to be tough
00:57:45
like there was like yeah the stigma for
00:57:47
a while and I I like I do think that's
00:57:49
changing a bit but there's definitely
00:57:51
times where like you couldn't talk about
00:57:52
that and you didn't want to come across
00:57:55
wake because you didn't know how that
00:57:57
would impact you and like your selection
00:57:59
and things like that and so there was it
00:58:02
was really hard to talk about those
00:58:03
things and so it kind of didn't motivate
00:58:07
you to seek help
00:58:08
um and I mean there was times that like
00:58:11
potentially there were red flags raised
00:58:14
with like something I said or what I was
00:58:15
doing and things weren't followed up but
00:58:17
yeah like I I also didn't seek it out
00:58:20
and so I think they're just I think like
00:58:23
communication is really important moving
00:58:25
forward so like you feel like you're in
00:58:27
the position where you can go and talk
00:58:28
without it impacting your performances
00:58:31
or like your selections and things yeah
00:58:33
yeah geez it feels like what you did was
00:58:35
very brave does it yeah you feel Brave
00:58:37
you look back on on your decision and
00:58:39
you know it was something you rested
00:58:41
with a long time long time do you feel
00:58:42
Brave yeah yeah I do I think the easiest
00:58:45
option would have been to keep going and
00:58:46
just like waited to break into something
00:58:48
yeah
00:58:49
um and so I do feel Brave and I like for
00:58:53
me I feel like it was one of the first
00:58:54
decisions that I made for myself like
00:58:56
for my priority and well-being for like
00:58:59
so long yeah like a lot of the decisions
00:59:02
I made was from like my potential
00:59:04
success or like for like to be part of
00:59:07
the program and things like that and
00:59:09
which did serve me but this one yeah was
00:59:12
like the first decision I actually made
00:59:13
without thinking about anyone else yeah
00:59:16
it was um a couple of pivotal moments
00:59:19
um last year with um with women's sport
00:59:23
and I wonder
00:59:24
um like Simone biles at the Olympics and
00:59:26
also who's the tennis player
00:59:29
yeah when when they
00:59:32
um prioritize their mental health did
00:59:33
you feel sort of validated
00:59:35
yeah I guess I I wouldn't say yeah like
00:59:39
it was great to see that
00:59:42
there was other people doing it because
00:59:44
yeah like even when I did like there
00:59:46
wasn't that much talk about like people
00:59:48
didn't you didn't see those stories and
00:59:50
so I think it was really a really really
00:59:52
cool to see that people were doing and
00:59:55
those those women that have like huge
00:59:57
profiles because it's just highlighting
01:00:01
like the importance of looking after
01:00:03
yourself and that like you can actually
01:00:05
burn out and like sport is amazing and
01:00:08
it's like an amazing opportunity but
01:00:10
you're also a human and like yeah it is
01:00:12
just Sport and like it is Sport and you
01:00:14
need to acknowledge that like you have
01:00:16
needs as well
01:00:19
um yeah because I think it's really easy
01:00:20
to get wrapped up in
01:00:22
like
01:00:24
Sport and the opportunity and how
01:00:28
athletes are just machines and things
01:00:29
like a lot of people see athletes like
01:00:31
that because they see them on the peak
01:00:33
performances the Pinnacle events and
01:00:35
then they don't see everything that goes
01:00:36
in behind it yeah and so I think it's
01:00:38
really easy for like like some Everyday
01:00:40
People to pass judgments and things on
01:00:42
that
01:00:44
um so I'm really glad and like for the
01:00:46
young girls that are pushing themselves
01:00:48
a little bit hard to see that their role
01:00:50
models are taking a step back means that
01:00:53
they might be able to do that as well or
01:00:55
have that conversation yeah what would
01:00:57
your message be to any um any um like
01:01:00
young girls or young women that listen
01:01:01
to this or the parents of um young
01:01:03
females that are like battling with
01:01:05
their weight or you know obsessing about
01:01:07
their weight for whatever reason yeah I
01:01:10
think it's like to be brave and seek out
01:01:13
you know someone to talk to because
01:01:15
often so many of these like illnesses
01:01:17
and obsessions and things like they're
01:01:19
very internalized and I guess it's
01:01:23
knowing that you're like
01:01:24
your body is so much more than who you
01:01:27
are and that
01:01:30
like you should never Define Yourself by
01:01:32
your body and that instead when you're
01:01:34
doing sport like your body is what is
01:01:35
gonna allow you to perform so you need
01:01:38
to feel your body and like to have those
01:01:40
Brave conversations like to not just
01:01:43
wait for something to go wrong because I
01:01:44
think often
01:01:46
when you're harder like when you're yeah
01:01:48
when you set high expectations and
01:01:49
things like you just you're waiting for
01:01:50
something to go wrong to speak up rather
01:01:52
than being preemptive about it yeah
01:01:55
yeah I think that's probably a good
01:01:56
place to end it what a great chat hey
01:01:59
jeez it's been a tumultuous couple of
01:02:02
years it has been yeah it has been but
01:02:04
it's the same glowing now yeah I'm you
01:02:07
seem really at peace I am I am and I
01:02:09
think like I don't regret it because I'm
01:02:13
in the position that I'm in now where I
01:02:14
want to help other people and I want to
01:02:16
like work with younger girls and things
01:02:17
like that and I would never have been in
01:02:19
this place if I hadn't gone through that
01:02:20
and part of me thinks that like it
01:02:23
wasn't my destiny to go to the Olympics
01:02:25
it was kind of like my destiny to go
01:02:27
through that in those years so that
01:02:30
I could be in the position that I am in
01:02:31
now yeah um so I don't think I can look
01:02:34
back on it and have regrets and things
01:02:37
and I wish it didn't happen absolutely
01:02:40
not Zoe McBride student
01:02:44
um girlfriend
01:02:47
are you doing an Iron Man I I think I
01:02:50
heard on the podcast you're doing an
01:02:51
Iron Man okay I'm not doing Iron Man but
01:02:53
I want to do an Iron Man I initially
01:02:55
70.3 surely well yeah I mean one day I
01:02:59
wonder for Iron Man I think when I first
01:03:01
said I was gonna do the Iron Man like I
01:03:03
just finished rowing really fit still
01:03:05
and like yeah since finishing rolling
01:03:08
and realizing that my body still needs
01:03:10
some recovery in terms of like bone
01:03:12
density and things like button Iron Man
01:03:14
is 100 on my list to take off for the
01:03:18
experience I guess
01:03:20
oh my God imagine what you can eat after
01:03:23
going out for an eight-hour training oh
01:03:25
yeah yeah or yum all the ubereats yeah
01:03:28
100 all right hey um thank you so much
01:03:30
for joining us on the podcast Runners
01:03:32
only thank you for having me it's an
01:03:34
honor yeah good luck for everything in
01:03:35
the future thank you you too
01:03:38
very much for making it all the way
01:03:39
through this episode of Runners only
01:03:41
with dom Harvey there's the reason I do
01:03:43
this message at the end and not the
01:03:45
beginning and that is because you guys
01:03:48
who make it all the way through and
01:03:50
listen to the Lillian bit are the real
01:03:52
MVPs so I have a little favor to ask you
01:03:55
no pressure to do this at all only if
01:03:56
you can be asked if you don't already
01:03:58
can you subscribe to the podcast because
01:04:02
I was reading some stats and something
01:04:03
like 70 of people just listen each week
01:04:05
but never actually subscribe to the
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and believe in what I'm doing here with
01:04:13
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01:04:19
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01:04:21
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01:04:22
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01:04:25
got no budget for anything else so yeah
01:04:27
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01:04:34
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01:04:44
that's cool as well the only thing I
01:04:45
expect from you guys ultimately is to
01:04:47
come along and listen each week take it
01:04:49
easy take care of yourself and see you
01:04:51
soon for another episode of Runners only
01:04:53
with dom Harvey
