00:00:06
Jake Robertson, welcome to my podcast.
00:00:09
>> Pleasure to be here finally,
00:00:10
>> mate. This is the first time we've met
00:00:12
uh in person. I feel like I know you,
00:00:13
though.
00:00:14
>> Yeah, likewise, man. Um, I've been
00:00:16
listening to you on the radio since I
00:00:18
was a young kid and um, you know, we've
00:00:21
had a couple of chats over the years and
00:00:24
yeah, I me I don't know why I messaged
00:00:26
you sometimes when I was down after some
00:00:29
pretty big um, pretty big news that you
00:00:32
know you you kind of covered on your
00:00:34
podcast. So, yeah, it's awesome to
00:00:37
finally be on myself. M
00:00:39
>> yeah the big news you're talking about
00:00:40
that was um your twin brother Zayn um
00:00:43
and his doping ban in 2023
00:00:47
I I had him on the podcast I think it
00:00:49
was um like an international exclusive
00:00:51
at the time so it got picked up by media
00:00:52
all over the world and it was um it was
00:00:54
a heartbreaking heartbreaking chat like
00:00:57
it was it was a conversation with a man
00:00:59
who was clearly at the lowest point of
00:01:02
his life the lowest point you know
00:01:04
someone can possibly be and it was um
00:01:06
it's a rough podcast even to listen to
00:01:08
now. But yeah, how was that for you at
00:01:11
the time being the twin brother?
00:01:13
>> Well, yeah, it's um it was a pretty big
00:01:15
deal. I mean, everything and the way he
00:01:17
went about it. Um I mean, yeah. So, it's
00:01:20
good we get this out of the way cuz I am
00:01:23
Jake Robertson and it's good that people
00:01:25
understand that I'm not my brother. I
00:01:28
don't live with my brother and um you
00:01:31
know, I have my wife and my son and we
00:01:33
have our family. Um, but yeah, I mean I
00:01:37
had personally no idea that that was
00:01:40
going to or that was coming until about
00:01:44
10 days maybe before the news and um
00:01:47
Zayn had been told that he was going to
00:01:50
have, you know, a week's notice before
00:01:52
they announced the news and he'll tell
00:01:54
me when they're going to announce the
00:01:56
news, but that never came and it was a
00:01:59
surprise to all of us when it got
00:02:00
dropped.
00:02:02
He um yeah, he he told me the day before
00:02:07
I was flying out to go and race the
00:02:10
Lisbon half marathon and I was like
00:02:13
I was freaking out, you know. I was
00:02:15
like, "Oh, shit." Because I've been a
00:02:17
twin my whole life. I understood
00:02:19
anything that one of us would do, we
00:02:22
always get, you know, we always get the
00:02:24
blame almost. And I was like, you know,
00:02:26
we this is our life story. We've been on
00:02:29
so many documentaries. people going to
00:02:31
be saying, "Oh, of course he's on it,
00:02:32
too."
00:02:35
>> And you know, it's uh you know, to be
00:02:39
honest, it was
00:02:42
Yeah, it's it's bunch of [ __ ] Like
00:02:44
there's
00:02:44
>> no you're not you're not the same
00:02:46
person. But yeah, I can't imagine how it
00:02:47
was for you at the time because um
00:02:50
obviously like you you're angry because
00:02:52
there's that guilt by association thing
00:02:54
which is completely unfair. Um, but also
00:02:56
it's your [ __ ] twin brother and he's
00:02:58
he's on my podcast talking about wanting
00:02:59
to shoot himself in the head.
00:03:01
>> Yeah. So, you know, going past the the
00:03:04
the automatic shock of it, I was um you
00:03:08
know, I'd seen I'd seen his character
00:03:10
change and he was, you know, partying a
00:03:12
lot and I was wondering why. And he
00:03:14
said, you know, I'm focusing on my
00:03:16
studies now. And um, you know, a lot of
00:03:20
things that I' I'd already seen. I was
00:03:22
wondering why is this happening? And um
00:03:24
you know when he told me I was shocked
00:03:28
and then when the news dropped
00:03:32
you know uh this is a story that you
00:03:34
know people may say they understand but
00:03:38
you know it's completely unfair. Um, so
00:03:40
I' I'd been offered a huge, you know,
00:03:43
puma contract
00:03:45
and I was pushing my agent for those 10
00:03:48
days because I knew what was about to
00:03:49
transpire was going to affect me. And I
00:03:52
was I was, you know, running really well
00:03:54
again. And I'd been offered a Puma
00:03:56
contract and was only ready to sign. And
00:03:59
I was, you know, kind of went inside and
00:04:01
celebrating with my wife. And um the
00:04:04
next morning
00:04:06
at like 2:00 a.m. in the morning, I'm
00:04:08
getting like uh messages saying the news
00:04:12
has dropped and I'm going online and
00:04:15
seeing, oh [ __ ] it's actually happening
00:04:19
late. But I was supposed to be told from
00:04:21
Zayn that it was going to be announced
00:04:24
>> and it didn't it didn't um get
00:04:27
announced. And you know, the next day
00:04:29
I'm getting a call from my agent and
00:04:32
he's telling me Pummer have retracted
00:04:34
their offer. And this was a 4-year deal.
00:04:37
Enough money for me and my family to be
00:04:40
comfortable. And uh
00:04:45
then
00:04:48
I knew your podcast would do this.
00:04:52
>> We made a joke before we started about
00:04:53
the box of tissues being here. I wasn't
00:04:55
thinking it was going to be you guys do
00:04:57
everything fast, don't you? You run
00:04:59
fast, you break down.
00:05:00
>> Oh man, that that one still just gets
00:05:03
me, you know.
00:05:04
>> How um since the the the Puma deal's
00:05:07
been and gone, like can you give an idea
00:05:09
of figures or is that inappropriate?
00:05:11
>> Um it's I say it's a lot of money in
00:05:15
Kenya
00:05:16
>> and I would even be able to, you know,
00:05:18
we would be even able to survive here in
00:05:20
New Zealand off it. It was a good a good
00:05:23
deal. But um due to like disclosure and
00:05:27
um I can't give that one away. Um
00:05:30
>> because it's a it's a rough sport to
00:05:31
make a good living in a like distance
00:05:33
running. It just it just is. There's not
00:05:35
the um there's not the sort of
00:05:36
endorsement opportunities that other
00:05:38
sports necessarily have.
00:05:41
>> Yeah. So you have to be a top tier like
00:05:44
you have to be performing and
00:05:45
>> you have to do it over a you know a
00:05:47
series of races. you can't just
00:05:50
>> do it one off and expect, you know.
00:05:54
>> Um, so yeah, I mean, I'm still answering
00:05:56
your question cuz there's so much to
00:05:58
talk about, but um, you know, that that
00:06:01
transpiring that that happening to me.
00:06:06
um you know on the phone I I was
00:06:09
breaking down with my agent and um
00:06:12
you know I had to go inside and uh I
00:06:15
know I flipped a switch and my son was
00:06:17
dancing when I went inside so I started
00:06:19
dancing with him and I I was in my own
00:06:22
head I was I was I was like broken but
00:06:25
uh I had to be like Superman you know
00:06:28
>> for my son he was dancing around the
00:06:30
living room he doesn't care like he
00:06:32
doesn't know what's going on so
00:06:34
>> um his perspective E
00:06:36
>> and my, you know, my wife knew there was
00:06:38
something wrong. She could just tell by
00:06:40
looking at me and everything, you know,
00:06:42
that was going on that day. She knew.
00:06:45
But, um,
00:06:48
you know, then, you know, of course, I'm
00:06:51
also thinking about my brother and um,
00:06:54
family's family, man. Um, as much as
00:06:57
this was hitting me and I'm feeling bad
00:07:00
about myself, I was like, you know, I'm
00:07:02
not going to speak to Zayn about me and
00:07:05
my worries, what this is doing to me
00:07:08
right now cuz he he knows.
00:07:11
And um you know my my you know instant
00:07:14
reaction for him was to just try and
00:07:16
comfort him, get him through this
00:07:17
because I've seen Kenyan athletes try
00:07:20
and commit suicide after such news hit
00:07:22
them
00:07:24
>> and it's it's not uncommon. It's like
00:07:26
you know we put in so much this is our
00:07:30
life like we put in so much to this to
00:07:33
make it to that level and then you get
00:07:35
told your life has changed forever. M
00:07:39
>> so you know I um I tried to be there for
00:07:43
him um as much as I could. I said, "Come
00:07:46
around, man." You know, "Come around to
00:07:47
our house if you ever need. Don't
00:07:49
hesitate."
00:07:51
And um you know, then he got on your
00:07:53
podcast and um that, you know, was a day
00:07:56
where
00:07:58
I was uh on the phone to him earlier and
00:08:01
um I was trying to just stop him doing
00:08:04
anything, you know, in the in the
00:08:06
moment.
00:08:08
>> And yeah, I mean um family's family,
00:08:11
man. Um, I I got to read a few messages
00:08:14
that were coming at the time from even
00:08:16
New Zealand athletes.
00:08:19
Uh, and I I was like, come on, you know,
00:08:22
this is it's not the time for this.
00:08:23
>> A pylon. Yeah.
00:08:25
>> Like someone like we knew growing up. It
00:08:28
was, you know, our age group running
00:08:31
around the same time. Um, she messaged
00:08:34
them. Um, and it was, you know, kind of
00:08:40
um, bringing me into this, saying, you
00:08:42
know, you guys, and not not you, Zayn,
00:08:44
but the message said, you guys have won
00:08:48
some seriously big races and made a name
00:08:51
for yourself. And I said, now like
00:08:54
they're bringing me into this. I
00:08:57
>> So, you know, it it constantly affected
00:09:00
me and I my main concern was my
00:09:02
brother's life. So,
00:09:05
What what's your relationship like now?
00:09:07
Like has it had um like a long-term
00:09:10
impact on it?
00:09:12
>> Um that in particular, uh I I guess so,
00:09:17
but not
00:09:19
>> not really. It's just we're in different
00:09:21
stages, different places in our lives.
00:09:24
You know, I'm a family man. I'm kind of
00:09:26
the quiet guy. My brother's very
00:09:28
outgoing and um a lot of people would
00:09:31
get on with him. He's a fun guy. knows
00:09:33
how to mix, you know, drinks. He's, you
00:09:35
know, that guy part life of the party.
00:09:38
Um,
00:09:40
you know, I'm I'm kind of Yeah. indoors
00:09:43
with my family.
00:09:45
>> Yeah. You're quite quite sort of um shy
00:09:47
and reserved. Eh, so why why did you
00:09:49
want to do a podcast today?
00:09:51
Well, uh, you know, get my side of the
00:09:54
story out on a lot of things, speak
00:09:55
about life, where I'm at now, future,
00:09:58
you know, I'm I'm trying to move on from
00:10:01
this. And you know, as much as this has
00:10:04
kind of affected me, um I'd like to
00:10:07
speak about future and I'm I'm finally
00:10:09
in a more positive place where I feel
00:10:11
like,
00:10:13
you know, I um have a few things going
00:10:15
for me and uh yeah, I I want to speak
00:10:20
about this before, you know, before
00:10:22
these things transpire and I I become
00:10:24
who I'm going to be again. Yeah.
00:10:26
>> Brilliant. you do you think your best
00:10:28
runs are are ahead of you or behind you
00:10:30
as we sit here today?
00:10:32
>> You know, I I flipped a switch a few
00:10:34
weeks ago because I actually have um a
00:10:38
pending police uh academy application in
00:10:42
I signed up to join the New Zealand
00:10:44
Police Force.
00:10:46
Um and I'm I'm you know, I was thinking
00:10:49
postc career running uh what would I
00:10:51
like to do? Where would I feel like I
00:10:53
can make a difference and work that I'm
00:10:55
interested in? I don't ever see myself
00:10:57
working just a job that I'm, you know,
00:11:00
not passionate about. So,
00:11:02
I um signed up for the police force and
00:11:05
I I heard that, you know, these
00:11:07
applications can take a year or two
00:11:09
even. So, I signed up. But, yeah, quite
00:11:13
recently, you know, been missing my
00:11:15
family. They're back in Kenya. They had
00:11:16
to leave. Um,
00:11:19
and I'm going back regardless because of
00:11:22
my family. So, I I flipped the switch
00:11:24
and um I got a call from my agent. He's
00:11:27
talking about races again and saying,
00:11:29
you know, when are you going to be ready
00:11:30
after,
00:11:32
you know, after your treatment here? And
00:11:35
um I uh I said, you know what, I can be
00:11:39
ready in September.
00:11:41
>> I'm that guy, you know, I flip a switch
00:11:43
and
00:11:44
I get ready real fast. just discipline,
00:11:48
focus, and uh the training, everything
00:11:50
that happens, I can get fit really
00:11:53
quick. So,
00:11:55
>> there's so much to unpack in that one
00:11:57
answer there. Um first, first of all, um
00:11:59
so New Zealand police on hold for now,
00:12:01
but maybe one day.
00:12:02
>> Yep.
00:12:03
>> You'd be a good football soldier,
00:12:04
wouldn't you?
00:12:05
>> Maybe one day. Um yeah, I'm actually
00:12:07
hoping that, you know, um more people
00:12:11
will hear that I'm looking for work, you
00:12:13
know, sport organization in New Zealand.
00:12:16
um you know it's I I am a runner but I
00:12:21
understand sport so I can work in many
00:12:24
lines of different sport um to be useful
00:12:26
to this country but it doesn't really
00:12:28
seem like a lot of
00:12:30
>> um federations or that are hiring
00:12:33
exathletes
00:12:34
um without degrees and that but um you
00:12:37
know maybe in America maybe in you know
00:12:40
if an opportunity pops up maybe I'll end
00:12:42
up over somewhere else. Oh, something
00:12:44
will I'm sure you've got so much wisdom
00:12:46
to share. And um another thing in that
00:12:48
previous answer you me mentioned being
00:12:50
back in New Zealand from your your home
00:12:51
in Kenya for treatment.
00:12:53
>> Yeah. So I knew that would come up. Um
00:12:57
got to give a shout out to South City
00:12:59
Health in Hamilton because that their
00:13:01
treatment um you know it's it's helped
00:13:04
me and uh you know it was a pretty big
00:13:07
scare. I mean anything to do with cancer
00:13:10
is um it's a shock. you know
00:13:13
>> what have you. So you you're living with
00:13:14
cancer at the moment?
00:13:16
>> No, cuz uh it all got removed. Um
00:13:18
>> what was it? What sort?
00:13:20
>> So yeah, I'm I'm no doctor, man. I I
00:13:24
kind of tried to block my ears to um you
00:13:27
know, melanoma or the other ones um the
00:13:30
the skin cancer treatments um and all
00:13:32
that, but
00:13:35
uh they did make me very aware of what
00:13:37
it was at the time. And um yeah, the
00:13:40
small operation uh became uh infected
00:13:43
and you know not not to my own doing but
00:13:47
you know this happens and I had to
00:13:50
postpone my trip three times. My family
00:13:52
had to go back on the 20th of April and
00:13:56
yeah, I was left here to deal with, you
00:13:59
know, uh, rec the recovery process,
00:14:03
which yeah, I mean, everybody's like,
00:14:05
okay, it's, you know, it's on your
00:14:07
shoulder, but you can't even walk
00:14:09
normally. You can't swing your arm. And
00:14:12
um, yeah, it was about 10 stitches.
00:14:15
>> Yeah. Not not too bad, but
00:14:18
>> you are you Yeah. So, the prognosis is
00:14:20
good.
00:14:20
>> Yeah. So they they got everything. Um
00:14:24
and yeah, it's just about the recovering
00:14:26
cuz you know the infection and stitches
00:14:29
ripped and tore a big hole, opened the
00:14:31
com completely open the wound again and
00:14:35
>> Yeah.
00:14:38
>> You right.
00:14:39
>> Yeah.
00:14:39
>> There's a lot to unpack today. I I I
00:14:42
promise we there's there's so much fun
00:14:44
stuff to your story which we'll um we'll
00:14:45
get to. It's not all doom and gloom,
00:14:47
right?
00:14:47
>> Yeah. So I'm not I'm no longer shaking,
00:14:48
man. I'm I'm good for it. Yeah. Oh, no.
00:14:51
Cuz the um Yeah. Your wife, by the way,
00:14:52
you've mentioned her a couple of times,
00:14:53
Maggie. One of the world's best runners,
00:14:55
right?
00:14:56
>> Phenomenal. Phenomenal athlete.
00:14:58
>> Proudly. Proudly. Now, like
00:15:00
>> like a 218 marathon runner.
00:15:02
>> So, yeah. I'm I'm her husband. Um you
00:15:04
know, how we got together and all. It's
00:15:07
a long story, but you know, training,
00:15:10
put it short, training with her brothers
00:15:12
before she ever came from high school
00:15:14
and met her through running. And um
00:15:17
yeah, I saw she was driven and focused
00:15:19
like me and we just clicked. You know,
00:15:21
she actually told me she was not going
00:15:23
to give me her number, wanted nothing to
00:15:25
do with me when I asked for it first
00:15:27
time.
00:15:28
>> Why?
00:15:29
>> Uh she was so driven and focused and she
00:15:31
just believed, you know,
00:15:33
uh having a boyfriend is like a dream
00:15:35
killer and um I believe the same, you
00:15:38
know, but I saw how she was. I've been
00:15:41
watching for some time. So I kind of
00:15:44
like got shut down and um you know to
00:15:47
get shut down like that in Kenya usually
00:15:51
um usually that's like okay now you get
00:15:53
sour you don't communicate anymore but
00:15:56
no that wasn't me I was like okay I
00:15:58
understand you we're cool went about my
00:16:02
business kept training you know with
00:16:03
them and um saying good morning you know
00:16:06
morning training and eventually she's
00:16:09
like the sky is different you
00:16:12
And uh I said, "Seem you." It was like a
00:16:14
month or two later. I was like, "Seems
00:16:16
uh you're not going to give me your
00:16:19
number. Uh I'll give you mine. Balls in
00:16:23
your court." Like, you know, and um I
00:16:26
think it was like a week later she
00:16:28
called. We just had it off from there.
00:16:31
It was 2011. May May 2011.
00:16:34
>> And when when did you propose? You
00:16:36
proposed um like straight after
00:16:37
finishing a half marathon, eh?
00:16:39
>> Yeah. So, yeah. clip the clips online.
00:16:42
It's amazing. So, you you finished
00:16:43
second to Sir Mo Farah.
00:16:45
>> Yeah, second to Sir Mo Farah. Um, you
00:16:48
know, champion athlete, man.
00:16:49
>> No, one of the best there's ever been,
00:16:51
>> you know, multiple Olympic champion. I
00:16:53
mean, uh, second to him. I I'm not going
00:16:56
to, you know, be upset about it, you
00:17:00
know. Um it was shame in that it was a
00:17:02
great race for me and
00:17:03
>> you know I I took him I took him to the
00:17:06
last you know couple hundred meters in
00:17:08
that race and
00:17:10
>> yeah I mean it it was a great
00:17:12
performance for me.
00:17:13
>> So his winning time was and yours was
00:17:17
>> um I'm pretty sure I ran 607
00:17:22
or 602 maybe or something something like
00:17:25
this.
00:17:26
I I bring that up because I feel like a
00:17:27
lot of people listening to this or
00:17:28
watching this um will be familiar with
00:17:30
the half marathon. They might know
00:17:32
someone that's run one. They probably
00:17:34
know that, you know, most people they
00:17:35
hope to break two hours for a half
00:17:37
marathon and you're like right on 1
00:17:39
hour. Like it's and you've broken an
00:17:40
hour before in the half marathon.
00:17:42
>> Yeah. So that that race actually went
00:17:44
out pretty slow and I know my slowest
00:17:46
half marathon is 60 12 seconds. So
00:17:49
>> uh it could have been that one.
00:17:51
>> We just closed the last 10k. Well, I
00:17:53
pushed in front trying to drop him.
00:17:56
Yeah. So, you know, my it was actually
00:17:58
the first time I traveled to uh a race
00:18:02
with my wife. My brother was always the
00:18:05
lucky one. He was traveling to so many
00:18:07
races with her and you know, finally I
00:18:09
got to travel to a race with her and she
00:18:11
just was in my head in the last couple
00:18:13
cases when it was getting tough and I
00:18:15
was like, you know what?
00:18:17
I don't know how she's finished up there
00:18:19
because they set the woman off early,
00:18:20
you know, and it's like when I I find
00:18:24
her um at the finish, I'll today's the
00:18:27
day I'm going to propose. And um I had
00:18:31
no idea how big it was. I just knew it
00:18:33
was like kind of a special time for us
00:18:35
being at the same race together. And I
00:18:38
asked the, you know, the elite
00:18:40
organizator uh the organization to go
00:18:42
find her. They pulled her up. She was
00:18:44
fourth in the women's race and I was
00:18:45
second. and they were like, "Oh, this is
00:18:48
a big deal."
00:18:50
I started to shake thinking, "Oh, this
00:18:52
is kind of a big deal." And um I was
00:18:55
pretty positive of uh her saying yes.
00:18:58
You know, so that wasn't the deal. She
00:19:00
just um was so nervous when she came
00:19:03
out. She had no idea what was happening.
00:19:04
She thought I might be
00:19:07
um getting taken away with an ambulance
00:19:09
or something.
00:19:11
And yeah, she's actually pulling away
00:19:13
when I'm holding her hand. She's leaning
00:19:15
back. She was so nervous and uh yeah, it
00:19:18
was just it was a great that's great
00:19:20
memory, man.
00:19:21
>> It's so special, eh? And the yeah, the
00:19:23
video footage is online. You can see Sir
00:19:25
Mo Farah there like loitering in the
00:19:27
background. It's really cool. Um
00:19:30
>> my brother was there too, man. He was um
00:19:33
he was fourth in the men's race and he
00:19:34
was hanging out. My agent was there and
00:19:37
>> I told them to come across cuz it was a
00:19:39
special moment for us. So
00:19:42
>> yeah, that's cool. And you're you've
00:19:44
you're you've still got the record for
00:19:46
New Zealand's fastest ever marathon.
00:19:49
>> No. So that's uh that's one I'm after,
00:19:52
man. My my brother's time is I think
00:19:55
it's 7 seconds quicker than mine.
00:19:58
>> How do I have I got my information
00:19:59
wrong? I've got um 2018 New Zealand's
00:20:01
fastest ever marathon in 20826.
00:20:04
>> No. So that's my best uh marathon 20826.
00:20:08
My brother's run 20819.
00:20:10
>> Oh. So, so you broke Rod Dixon's
00:20:13
long-standing record by 33 seconds. Then
00:20:14
your brother broke your record.
00:20:16
>> What an [ __ ]
00:20:18
>> Who's is is he who's better? Who's the
00:20:20
better runner, would you say? Yourself
00:20:22
or your brother?
00:20:23
>> Oh, man. That's such a controversial
00:20:25
question now, but you know, I'm I'm
00:20:27
going to go say me. um the amount of
00:20:29
results I've had uh top positions and
00:20:32
races um consistent times you know and
00:20:37
um you know maybe the better range was
00:20:40
always Zayn cuz he had 1500 and one mile
00:20:42
on his side you know he'd run some
00:20:44
pretty quick times there um up to
00:20:46
marathon but for me from you know 5,000
00:20:51
m 10,000 half in marathon um
00:20:54
>> I'd say I've been more consistent
00:20:59
You guys are the fastest twins in the
00:21:01
world, eh? Fastest twins that there's
00:21:02
ever been.
00:21:04
>> Uh, I think so.
00:21:05
>> Yeah,
00:21:05
>> we we actually share the we have um a
00:21:09
joint area record for the 10k road race
00:21:12
>> which is 2728. He ran his um in Berlin
00:21:16
10k. I think it was in 20
00:21:20
I think it was 2015
00:21:23
and I ran mine in New Orleans in 2018.
00:21:26
Mhm.
00:21:27
>> Same second, years apart, different
00:21:30
conditions. I mean, it's it's pretty
00:21:32
crazy. We ran the same exact second. Um,
00:21:36
>> so yeah, I'm I'm actually planning my
00:21:38
assault on the 10K, half and marathon
00:21:42
records
00:21:43
>> right now.
00:21:45
>> Yeah. I I mean obviously through um some
00:21:47
poor decision making which we've already
00:21:48
discussed he's sort of like spoiled his
00:21:51
your legacy or reputation a bit but you
00:21:52
look back on what you both achieved um
00:21:55
as family members as brothers as twins.
00:21:57
You proud of it?
00:21:59
>> Yeah, I'm I mean I'm proud of what I I
00:22:02
do as well, you know. Um,
00:22:04
>> yeah,
00:22:05
>> my brother's, you know, back when he was
00:22:07
racing and he'd go to a race, um, you
00:22:11
know, I I get more nervous when people I
00:22:13
know or really care about go to race.
00:22:16
Um, cuz I'm I'm in control of what I do.
00:22:19
But when it's my wife or my brother
00:22:21
back, you know, when he was racing was
00:22:23
um, I'd get nervous and just say,
00:22:25
"Please get a decent result, at least
00:22:28
just a decent result." And he performed
00:22:30
highly, I'd be, you know, stoked. M
00:22:33
>> really stoked for him and um I know what
00:22:36
that does. I know for his life and
00:22:38
everything at the time and you know big
00:22:41
results change lives.
00:22:43
>> Yeah.
00:22:48
>> Why don't we go right back to the
00:22:49
beginning and then we'll like um like
00:22:51
track the story. Um yeah, we've covered
00:22:53
a lot already, but um yeah, I'm keen to
00:22:55
explore the early years in Hamilton and
00:22:57
then the um the decision for you and
00:22:59
your brother to move to Kenya at 17. 17.
00:23:02
and how how your parents allowed that
00:23:03
and how that all came about. But yeah,
00:23:05
early years in Hamilton, what are your
00:23:07
earliest sort of memories?
00:23:10
>> Well, um you know, growing up, I always
00:23:13
had Zayn there and we were, you know, we
00:23:16
were going to Hamilton West
00:23:19
kindergarten. My mother would sometimes
00:23:21
work there.
00:23:23
um great childhood memories of just
00:23:25
playing and um it was always sport
00:23:27
backyard coming home from school always
00:23:29
cricket football or something you know
00:23:32
always sport ride the bike it was never
00:23:35
just sit down for too long and um you
00:23:38
know I think us both being there pushed
00:23:41
one another more and um yeah we just
00:23:44
came up in sport and yeah school school
00:23:48
wasn't for me um I think bullying had a
00:23:51
lot to do with why I started to dislike
00:23:53
school more and more. Um, bullying from
00:23:56
students. Um, also teachers, you know,
00:24:00
>> really.
00:24:01
>> Yeah. I mean, teachers have their
00:24:03
favorites, but you know, it's
00:24:07
it's difficult to say, but you when you
00:24:10
feel like a teacher holds a grudge
00:24:13
against you for no particular reason or
00:24:15
they see you as a bad kid, but you're
00:24:17
trying your your best. Um
00:24:21
yeah, it's just difficult and um it's
00:24:23
not like I'd ever push back, but when
00:24:26
you know when you have that image around
00:24:28
you, it's it's hard to break it, I
00:24:31
guess.
00:24:32
>> Yeah.
00:24:33
>> Is is it painful to reflect on some of
00:24:35
the stuff?
00:24:37
>> Does it used to be a lot more, but I've
00:24:39
been through so much in the last years?
00:24:41
I uh
00:24:43
Yeah, I've kind of left that one behind.
00:24:46
I don't feel about it anymore. I've I
00:24:49
feel like I've broken a lot of um bad
00:24:54
feelings about that through success.
00:24:57
>> You know, I would um right into high
00:25:00
school, you know, I had um high school
00:25:02
teachers calling me anorexic
00:25:05
and I, you know, I was running like
00:25:07
probably 100 mile weeks. I was eating so
00:25:10
much. My mother was saying, "You boys
00:25:13
are making us like you boys are making
00:25:15
this family broke
00:25:17
>> with the grocery bill."
00:25:18
>> They called my mother. They called my
00:25:20
athletic coach, my first athletic coach,
00:25:22
and said, "These guys have to be
00:25:24
anorexic." What
00:25:27
what our physique was shaping to the
00:25:29
sport.
00:25:30
>> Any sport has like, you know, a physique
00:25:34
that will suit to the towards the sport.
00:25:36
We're running so many miles that our
00:25:38
physiques were starting to shape towards
00:25:40
the the sport of distance running
00:25:42
>> and to get such, you know, feedback from
00:25:45
our coach. I got a call from your
00:25:47
teacher saying, "You guys are anorexic."
00:25:49
What?
00:25:51
>> I was eating like a teenage boy plus
00:25:54
some.
00:25:55
>> Were your parents together or had had
00:25:57
they broken up?
00:25:58
>> No. So, my parents divorced when I was I
00:26:00
think 11 12. Yeah.
00:26:02
>> Yeah. What sort of impact did that have
00:26:04
on you?
00:26:06
Um,
00:26:08
I I don't know. I was I was I was weird
00:26:12
man by the stage. Like I I heard a lot
00:26:15
of fights. Like most nights I'd go to
00:26:16
sleep hearing fights. So, you know,
00:26:20
screaming every night. Um, it's not it's
00:26:23
not an ideal
00:26:24
>> um
00:26:25
>> environment
00:26:25
>> environment for like a kid to grow up
00:26:27
in. Um,
00:26:29
I feel like I don't I just I went numb
00:26:32
or something cuz I never showed that it
00:26:36
affected me. I was just kind of ready
00:26:37
for it.
00:26:39
>> But yeah, probably had some role into
00:26:42
why I was able to
00:26:44
handle a lot of um emotions the way I
00:26:47
did and handle feelings the way I did.
00:26:50
>> I could shut things out
00:26:53
maybe a lot longer than normal people
00:26:54
would.
00:26:56
>> Yeah. Some people aren't well suited as
00:26:58
as a couple, but they're good as
00:27:00
individuals.
00:27:01
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, uh I understand
00:27:05
it now that I'm a grownup, you know, and
00:27:07
um it was better for both of them and
00:27:10
you know, it's sad at the time, but uh
00:27:13
>> yeah, some for some people maybe it is
00:27:16
better
00:27:17
>> for for everybody. Well,
00:27:18
>> that must have been a rough time for
00:27:19
your mom then, like raising raising two
00:27:21
twin boys. Did was she the like the sort
00:27:23
of the primary caregiver? So yeah, we
00:27:26
were we were more at our mother's house,
00:27:29
but we would go to our father's house
00:27:31
during uh some weekdays and every
00:27:34
alternate weekend. Um so we did spent
00:27:37
like joint care and
00:27:39
>> time at both parents house and that was
00:27:41
kind of cool at first and you know
00:27:43
anytime we felt like okay had enough
00:27:46
here we'd move to the other place.
00:27:48
Sometimes we'd have a fight and like,
00:27:49
you know what, I'm going to the other
00:27:50
place.
00:27:52
And I mean, yeah, that's that's kind of
00:27:55
it. But I'm not going to get into those.
00:27:58
>> Yeah. No, that's good. Why running? Why
00:28:01
did you and your brother gravitate
00:28:02
towards running?
00:28:03
>> So, yeah. Here's the interesting thing.
00:28:05
Like, running saved my life, man. I was
00:28:09
I I was like, you know, bullied at
00:28:12
school, like I said, and um I was I was
00:28:17
so talented, man. It it's I was so
00:28:20
talented as a kid. Like me and my
00:28:22
brother, we were both talented and in
00:28:26
back into primary school, we would win
00:28:27
every race like first to second by a
00:28:30
long way. It would become into schools,
00:28:33
you know, going into Wetto district
00:28:35
still first and second by a long way
00:28:39
right up until high school and you know
00:28:42
first and second and you know going
00:28:44
right through districts to then it would
00:28:47
become North Island Championships and by
00:28:50
this stage in high school people started
00:28:51
to train. I had no idea what run like
00:28:55
training was. I was a skateboarder in my
00:28:58
mind at the time. I was going to the X
00:29:00
Games. Like that was my idea. Like
00:29:03
>> the next Tony Hawk.
00:29:04
>> Yeah. Like well street skater, but uh
00:29:07
you know I was that guy. And um yeah, I
00:29:10
had no idea what training was. My
00:29:12
brother actually joined an athletic
00:29:13
club, but he was just racing. He had no
00:29:16
idea what training was. And yeah, I I
00:29:20
went to North Islands and it was a
00:29:22
pretty rough time for me and I just felt
00:29:24
like I was a misfit and um you know, I
00:29:27
was a quiet kid. I was starting to
00:29:30
become more and more selfisolated and uh
00:29:35
you know I I I had one thing. I had
00:29:37
drive. And I got my ass kicked at North
00:29:40
Islands
00:29:42
and I ran a stupid race. I was running
00:29:44
in socks cuz I'd got blisters from
00:29:47
Yetos. So, I decided I was going to wear
00:29:50
socks. I didn't have spikes or running
00:29:52
shoes like to race with, you know? So, I
00:29:55
just wore socks instead.
00:29:57
>> Why didn't you just go barefoot?
00:29:58
>> Oh, was those blisters, man. I had those
00:30:00
blisters still. So,
00:30:03
you know, and uh for one reason or
00:30:05
another, I got my ass kicked. And you
00:30:08
know that that feeling that feeling at
00:30:12
that time I was like you know what I
00:30:15
hate this feeling.
00:30:17
I'm going to be something.
00:30:18
>> Mhm.
00:30:19
>> And it was I believe it was 2004 and it
00:30:22
was around the time of the Olympics and
00:30:24
I I started watching track and field and
00:30:26
uh I watched you know the distance races
00:30:28
and I was like inspired a little bit you
00:30:32
know
00:30:33
>> but I was inspired by what I wanted to
00:30:35
do and
00:30:37
I had no idea of training. I just
00:30:38
started going out for a run as hard as I
00:30:40
could for as long as I could every day.
00:30:43
I came out, you know, a month or two
00:30:46
later into cross country season
00:30:49
and um I was unbeatable.
00:30:52
>> That's when uh a club coach tried to
00:30:57
recruit me and um yeah, he took us in
00:31:00
and uh started showing us how to train
00:31:02
and uh
00:31:04
you know, I went to a my first club
00:31:08
championship and I got a bronze medal in
00:31:10
an age group that had, you know, a
00:31:12
couple years on me. So, I was competing
00:31:14
against older kids, but I got a bronze
00:31:16
medal in a my first national
00:31:18
championships.
00:31:21
>> So, you got a taste for it.
00:31:23
>> So, yeah, that was a taste. I was like,
00:31:24
well, next year I'm going to win the
00:31:26
gold. And you know I was never stopping
00:31:29
like from there
00:31:31
you know I I had no idea of world youth
00:31:33
championships and all these things to
00:31:35
come but as soon as my coach saw that I
00:31:38
was able to compete at that level
00:31:40
>> he started mentioning these things to me
00:31:42
and I said I'm going
00:31:44
next year I was selected for the world
00:31:46
youth championship one year of training
00:31:49
and I was making national squads
00:31:51
>> and you know this is this is happening
00:31:53
as a kid so talent was obviously there
00:31:56
and Um that was 2005.
00:31:59
>> Your talent's only going to get you so
00:32:00
far though. You got to do the work which
00:32:02
you guys have most definitely done.
00:32:04
>> Yeah. So drive, passion, whatever you
00:32:07
know want to call it. Um you got to have
00:32:11
a work ethic.
00:32:13
>> You can't buckle when things get hard.
00:32:15
And um
00:32:18
you know it's 2006 I went to the world
00:32:20
junior cross country and this was this
00:32:23
was the changing point for me cuz I came
00:32:25
up with this crazy idea you're talking
00:32:27
about you know I wanted to go to the
00:32:30
world cross the following year which was
00:32:32
in Kenya and I came up with this idea
00:32:34
that you know I'd met some of the
00:32:36
Kenyans and they were like you know come
00:32:37
come across for training before the
00:32:39
championship.
00:32:41
So, I I said, "You know what? I'm going
00:32:43
to
00:32:44
I was 16 at the time and uh I went
00:32:48
straight back home and uh you know,
00:32:51
started speaking to my parents about it.
00:32:53
They're like, uh, you know, it's an
00:32:54
idea, but
00:32:56
>> it'll fade. It'll fade." You know,
00:32:59
>> and my brother was like, you know, he's
00:33:01
not on ship yet, but you know, he never
00:33:04
imagined he'd be going to the World
00:33:05
Cross or something, so he thought it was
00:33:07
just for that. But no, I had bigger
00:33:10
ideas.
00:33:12
>> Yeah, because the um the the place that
00:33:14
you moved to in Kenya, uh Eton, is that
00:33:17
how you say it?
00:33:18
>> Yeah. EAN spelled it T E N. It's like
00:33:21
considered the home of distance running.
00:33:23
Um they do camps there now where you
00:33:26
know, Europeans from all over the world
00:33:27
go there and they train for a couple of
00:33:29
weeks. But um you guys were groundbreers
00:33:31
like no no no white dudes were going
00:33:33
there at the time, right?
00:33:35
>> Yeah. So I mean the E10 always had those
00:33:38
um I think it was just a few years
00:33:40
before we went there they they had those
00:33:42
you know four fivestar hotels like a
00:33:45
couple of them
00:33:46
>> but still nobody had recognized this
00:33:48
place for what it was. Um yeah very few
00:33:53
very few foreign athletes went through.
00:33:55
M
00:33:57
so when you tell your your parents um
00:33:59
your mom and your dad that you want to
00:34:01
move to Kenya at the age of 17 um yeah
00:34:05
what what do they say?
00:34:06
>> Well I didn't tell them that cuz you
00:34:08
know that then it would have been a
00:34:10
definite no
00:34:11
>> right.
00:34:12
>> Yeah. So
00:34:12
>> I thought I thought maybe they were like
00:34:14
reluctant at first and then they just
00:34:15
sort of soft into the idea or they got
00:34:17
sick you you wore them down or
00:34:20
>> Yeah. So even athletics New Zealand have
00:34:22
l life life advisers and uh they were
00:34:24
going against the idea and saying no do
00:34:27
not let them go early you know Africa is
00:34:29
a dangerous place everybody has this
00:34:32
idea that you know it's it's a place of
00:34:35
crime and you know I don't know if
00:34:37
racism comes into it but this this idea
00:34:42
needs to like stop. E10 is like the
00:34:45
probably one of the safest towns I've
00:34:46
ever been in. You know, 70% of the town
00:34:50
is runners,
00:34:52
>> all trying to be a professional.
00:34:55
>> You know, some of them maybe just trying
00:34:56
to avoid farm work, but you know, it's
00:34:59
it's runners with the same idea. There's
00:35:01
not much crime in E10.
00:35:03
>> Hamilton's more dangerous.
00:35:06
Um,
00:35:07
so, you know, it's um how I came about
00:35:10
like I was going to the World Cross and
00:35:14
I'd been selected for the New Zealand
00:35:15
team. So, I was going to go anyway. It
00:35:19
was just whether or not my parents would
00:35:21
let me go sooner.
00:35:23
And they knew if they said no, I was
00:35:26
going to go and find my own money and do
00:35:28
it without them. And that was not going
00:35:31
to be in a way that I'd communicate well
00:35:34
with them afterwards. They just knew I
00:35:37
was doing it. M
00:35:39
>> so um you know with their with their
00:35:43
blessings like you know I went
00:35:46
and they they they gave me one
00:35:47
condition. They pretty much forced my
00:35:49
brother on me and uh you know he was
00:35:52
selected at the time to go to the
00:35:54
Oceanana track and field champs and he
00:35:57
had to choose between coming with me or
00:36:00
going there to compete for himself. He
00:36:02
wasn't with the World Cross team, but he
00:36:05
uh he chose I'm going to go and away we
00:36:09
went.
00:36:11
>> So So you go there. How much money do
00:36:12
you have?
00:36:14
>> Um
00:36:15
>> what's your plan? What's your plan when
00:36:16
you get there?
00:36:18
>> So yeah, the here's the part of the
00:36:20
story that most people don't know is
00:36:22
that we had a friend, Brooke Bellichu,
00:36:25
which is a New Zealand citizen,
00:36:27
Ethiopian originally descent. um he'd
00:36:30
gone back to visit his father in
00:36:32
Ethiopia. So we were going to Ethiopia
00:36:35
first and this was in I think late late
00:36:39
October
00:36:41
um 2006
00:36:45
and we stayed with him right up until
00:36:48
New Year in Ethiopia.
00:36:51
So we had like a pretty good safety net
00:36:53
to begin with. He showed us the ropes
00:36:55
around in Ethiopia. you know it's a big
00:36:57
city in Addis Sababa but um yeah time he
00:37:02
was he was leaving and we were leaving
00:37:04
to Kenya he came back here and we hopped
00:37:07
across the border on a flight
00:37:10
and um yeah 1st of January at about
00:37:14
midnight 2007 we touched down in Kenya
00:37:18
my brother was actually like hey bro
00:37:20
what do we do as we're landing I was
00:37:23
like you know what we don't have phone
00:37:25
numbers we I don't have anything. I know
00:37:27
the place that these guys train. I know
00:37:29
the name of it. That's all. So, let's go
00:37:31
get the bus,
00:37:33
head out into the night,
00:37:36
and go find these guys tomorrow.
00:37:39
Um, worst case scenario, you know, we'll
00:37:41
find a hotel for the night. So, we got
00:37:45
Yeah. out of the airport onto a bus,
00:37:48
pitch black. If anyone knows like
00:37:51
anything about Africa, but the the dark
00:37:54
and night is dark. At that time, there's
00:37:57
no street lights. Kenya is a different
00:37:59
place. So developed now, but back then
00:38:03
potholes all the way all the way to
00:38:06
Elder. Some, but so bad you'd hit the
00:38:08
roof with your head, you know, on this
00:38:11
uh bus. We traveled to Elderets. You
00:38:13
know, 6 hours later, we're arriving
00:38:16
early hours of the morning.
00:38:18
Um you know we stopped we got off found
00:38:21
a hotel for like a couple hours sleep
00:38:23
that got up
00:38:26
went to you know asked for directions to
00:38:28
a stage which uh is a public transport
00:38:31
and um went out to the area to find
00:38:34
these athletes I knew
00:38:37
>> that was you know
00:38:38
>> so you didn't have like a contact number
00:38:40
or
00:38:40
>> no no
00:38:41
>> and I suppose this was sort of pre pre
00:38:44
email as we know it like you didn't have
00:38:46
any electronic devices or phones I I had
00:38:49
you know we had cell phone stay in touch
00:38:51
with the parents and all that. um had
00:38:55
enough cash, had a you know, credit card
00:38:59
um for you know, emergencies and all
00:39:01
that. But yeah, I mean it it was pretty
00:39:04
scary at the time because, you know, my
00:39:06
brother was also leaning on me to make
00:39:08
decisions and
00:39:10
I just, you know, I was in luck cuz the
00:39:14
first runner we stopped on the side of
00:39:16
the road, we're like, "Hey man, uh do
00:39:18
you know Benjamin Limo? Do you know?"
00:39:20
He's like, "That's my uncle." Ah,
00:39:23
>> let me take you guys to him. So, he he
00:39:26
took us down the road to this camp in
00:39:28
the middle of the countryside
00:39:31
and they just finished their their tea
00:39:33
in the morning like, "Oh, we're about to
00:39:35
go out for some intervals um on the
00:39:38
hill. You want to join us? We're dressed
00:39:41
in running here." Like, yeah, sure.
00:39:45
Straight into training. Yeah, let's do
00:39:48
it.
00:39:48
>> And what's um Yeah. describe to someone
00:39:51
that's never been like um how difficult
00:39:53
the altitude is.
00:39:56
>> Well, um you know
00:39:59
it's it's pretty tough to say, but you
00:40:01
feel it so much on hills and that's
00:40:03
that's never going to change. Like
00:40:05
you'll feel it walking up hills.
00:40:08
>> It's crazy. You just you find yourself
00:40:10
panting. If you want to have a
00:40:12
conversation with somebody, you're going
00:40:14
to find yourself struggling to speak
00:40:16
while you walk up hills. um while you
00:40:20
adjust, you know, a fitter you get there
00:40:23
um sure, but the hills never change, you
00:40:25
you feel it like you can't breathe the
00:40:27
same. I
00:40:28
>> mean, we were young at the time and um
00:40:31
it's one of the encouraging things for
00:40:33
us the whole time. We knew we were young
00:40:35
and we were going to take this uh
00:40:37
environment and develop, you know,
00:40:40
bigger lungs and uh you know, get a
00:40:42
better cardio system to handle the
00:40:45
sport.
00:40:48
It's amazing that that age 17. Was it
00:40:50
young 17 or late 17? Like were you
00:40:52
closer to 18?
00:40:54
>> Uh yeah. So we
00:40:57
I believe we turned 17 in Ethiopia.
00:41:00
>> Wow.
00:41:01
>> And in November. Um
00:41:04
>> that's
00:41:06
I I think you'll get to How old's your
00:41:07
son now?
00:41:09
>> My son's three. He's turning four in
00:41:10
July.
00:41:11
>> I reckon he'll get to the point where
00:41:12
he's like 16, 17. And at that point,
00:41:15
you'll be like, "What the [ __ ] was I
00:41:16
thinking?" Like, it's crazy what you
00:41:18
guys did.
00:41:19
>> Uh,
00:41:20
>> you just had this vision, eh, this this
00:41:21
burning desire.
00:41:23
>> Yeah. I mean,
00:41:25
I I believe we said it we've said it on
00:41:28
a few documentaries that we were both
00:41:30
involved in, but coming back here or
00:41:34
bailing on the idea that we had to
00:41:37
become successful before, you know, um,
00:41:41
coming back was, you know, that was
00:41:42
failing. M
00:41:44
>> and coming back here was worse to us
00:41:47
than dying at the time because of how
00:41:50
bad a feeling we had back here with all
00:41:54
the bullying and everything and um
00:41:56
people telling us you can't do it
00:41:59
and you know some it's you know it's
00:42:02
cliche everybody says it you can't do
00:42:05
something and you hear all these
00:42:06
athletes talk about how um people have
00:42:09
always pushed that idea that at some
00:42:12
point in their careers you can't do
00:42:13
something and that motivates them. Well,
00:42:15
it does.
00:42:17
>> You know, it definitely does.
00:42:20
>> Yeah.
00:42:22
>> Yeah. Use your haters as motivators as
00:42:24
the saying goes.
00:42:25
>> Yeah. I mean, and uh you know, it comes
00:42:27
to a point where you don't actually care
00:42:29
>> what you know they say to you anymore,
00:42:31
but it's still it's like thank you. You
00:42:34
don't believe I can do that?
00:42:37
>> Yeah. Use it.
00:42:38
>> Do you still I mean you you've done so
00:42:39
much. Do you still feel like you got
00:42:40
something to prove or not really?
00:42:43
Uh well now it's more about me achieving
00:42:47
what I want to achieve before you know I
00:42:49
end my career. I believe I still have
00:42:52
you know as many years as I want to
00:42:54
have. I mean look at Elliot. He's he's a
00:42:58
lot older than me and he's still going.
00:43:00
>> Elliot Kipogi. Yeah. Do you um
00:43:02
>> Yeah. Do you know him?
00:43:04
>> Oh yeah. We
00:43:06
>> Oh my god.
00:43:07
>> We good. We good mates.
00:43:08
>> Really? Yeah. Yeah. So when you actually
00:43:10
his name came to by the way he's my
00:43:12
favorite athlete of all time. If he ever
00:43:14
gets um done for doping or anything I'll
00:43:15
be devastated.
00:43:17
>> Oh he he he won't man. That guy's Yeah.
00:43:20
>> But when you talked before about being a
00:43:21
young boy in the Hamilton watching the
00:43:22
2004 Olympics was was he on the track
00:43:24
then was did he win the the five or
00:43:26
10,000 meters?
00:43:27
>> So he he was in the in the 2004 Olympics
00:43:30
in Athens and um he was third. He had
00:43:32
won the world championship the year
00:43:34
before. So, he was a big threat, but
00:43:37
yeah, he got um bumped back to third in
00:43:39
the 5,000 there in Athens. And um I
00:43:42
actually met him my first day in Kenya.
00:43:44
I'd never met him before, but because
00:43:47
the the camp that I first went to was uh
00:43:51
full, they sent me down the road to
00:43:53
another one. This had Elliot in and he
00:43:57
was one of the first guys to welcome us
00:43:58
and say, "Come in and um you know, let
00:44:01
me make a phone call to the coach, see
00:44:03
if the camp is full.
00:44:05
And um
00:44:07
>> Coach Patrick Sang.
00:44:08
>> Yep. Coach Patrick Sang who said send
00:44:12
them to Elderette back to where we you
00:44:14
know stored our bags in the hotel. Come
00:44:17
meet um come meet me in Elderat. So yeah
00:44:20
met Patrick Sang day two the next day as
00:44:23
well. But yeah still had no place to
00:44:26
stay. So I spent the first few nights in
00:44:28
that hotel
00:44:30
pretty comfortable to be honest.
00:44:33
>> Yeah. Everyone thinks Kenya's, you know,
00:44:35
got nowhere to stay, man. It's got
00:44:36
hotels. Like, come on.
00:44:39
>> I mean, surely not as nice as like the
00:44:40
Novatel Tyanui.
00:44:42
>> Oh, you know, like if you know the
00:44:44
Hilton or these type of places that I
00:44:47
mean, they have hotels of of that
00:44:49
standard.
00:44:50
>> Yeah.
00:44:51
>> So, sorry. I just can't get over um the
00:44:53
fact that you're bros with Elliot
00:44:55
Kimchigi. This is insane. What? Yeah.
00:44:59
What's he like? So uh
00:45:02
>> because the the Elliot Kipoki that that
00:45:04
I know is um just quiet and humble. Um
00:45:08
you know he talks about the power of
00:45:10
discipline and talks about you know
00:45:12
impossible is nothing and all that sort
00:45:14
of stuff but you like do you joke with
00:45:16
him?
00:45:17
>> Yeah you clam around a bit. Yeah, you
00:45:19
can definitely um during workouts and
00:45:22
stuff u when I was training with them
00:45:24
definitely would have a laugh and uh you
00:45:27
know um he he's really uplifting,
00:45:31
encouraging and you know all the media
00:45:33
and all the interviews that he's forced
00:45:35
to give these days and um you know I say
00:45:38
forced but you know he out of his own
00:45:41
you know generosity he he he goes for it
00:45:43
and um you know they ask him to preach
00:45:46
about all this type of stuff over and
00:45:48
over again. But he's genuinely that dude
00:45:50
like
00:45:51
>> he he wants to inspire everybody in the
00:45:55
world to be running um to be as healthy
00:45:57
as possible.
00:45:59
>> Um but inspire people for to be the best
00:46:02
they can be in any area of life. M
00:46:05
>> and uh yeah he inspired me like the best
00:46:08
story I have with Iliad
00:46:11
uh for this is you know I keep telling
00:46:14
um kids whenever I meet them because
00:46:16
they want to know about Iliad too but
00:46:19
you know this was in 200 um 2010 when I
00:46:23
made a major breakthrough. I was
00:46:25
training with him full-time all track
00:46:28
sessions um under Patrick Sang and you
00:46:31
know I I was starting to come up but we
00:46:34
were doing a session a workout of uh 15
00:46:36
by 400
00:46:38
and you know I was I was struggling but
00:46:42
I I was finally holding with with these
00:46:45
guys and Elliot you know we did a set of
00:46:48
eight set of five and set of two
00:46:52
and I held all the way through the set
00:46:54
eight, set of five, and then, you know,
00:46:57
we have a longer recovery before the set
00:46:59
of two. And now it's it's showtime. Like
00:47:03
the set of two is flying, flying fast.
00:47:07
And Elliot said, "Jake, you're leading
00:47:10
this one." And I was like, "Hey man, I
00:47:13
don't know if I can cope. Like, I don't
00:47:15
want to mess up your guy's workout." And
00:47:17
he's like, "Don't worry. I've seen you.
00:47:20
You You can do it." He's like, he's
00:47:23
like, "Don't worry about that, Jake. You
00:47:24
you can do this. Like, you you got it."
00:47:27
I was like, "Hey, man." And he's like,
00:47:29
"No, no, there's no more time to think.
00:47:31
You're in front. You're doing it." And
00:47:33
he really was like, "You you got this."
00:47:35
And he's like, "I'll follow you. You'll
00:47:38
be right." And um, you know, I was
00:47:40
hauling ass going through 200
00:47:43
and I'm like, "Oh my god, I'm doing
00:47:45
this. I'm on it." And then I'm entering
00:47:49
the home straight, 100 meters to go, and
00:47:53
two of these other guys in the group
00:47:55
start sprinting past me. And I'm like
00:47:57
thinking, "Oh man, I'm I'm off I'm off
00:47:59
the pace. I'm not going to hit." And I'm
00:48:02
waiting for them all to pass me. But I'm
00:48:04
like trying my best. And uh I crossed
00:48:06
the line, I hit the 55 seconds,
00:48:10
>> which you know, maybe people should go
00:48:12
out and try and hit 55 seconds at the
00:48:14
track to know how hard it is,
00:48:16
>> yet alone it being number 14 of a
00:48:18
workout.
00:48:19
>> Yeah. And at altitude.
00:48:20
>> And at altitude. Um
00:48:22
>> I can say I've done a lot of running.
00:48:24
I've even written a book about running.
00:48:25
I've never broken 60 seconds for a 400
00:48:28
meter.
00:48:28
>> Yeah. So, you know, um, at the end of
00:48:32
this, it was only those two guys that
00:48:34
had passed me. And I looked around, I
00:48:37
was like,
00:48:39
Elliot, hey, hey, man. Um, he's like,
00:48:42
good job. I was like, hey, hey, why
00:48:44
didn't you pass me, man? He's like, you
00:48:46
you did the requirement. You hit the
00:48:48
pace.
00:48:50
And I was like, but these other guys,
00:48:51
he's like, don't worry about those other
00:48:53
guys, man. You you did the pace. you you
00:48:56
did the what we were required to do and
00:48:58
that's training. You did a great job.
00:49:01
And man, I was like so pumped up after
00:49:04
it. I was like, man, I'm gonna have a
00:49:06
great season. I can do this. Like number
00:49:08
15, I I blew up pretty bad. I I didn't I
00:49:12
wasn't able to maintain the pace on
00:49:14
number 15, but um
00:49:17
>> yeah, full of full of encouragement. And
00:49:20
it's it's that story that I take away
00:49:22
and I'm like, that's Elliot
00:49:23
>> to the bone, you know? cuz any um anyone
00:49:27
that's not really into running that's
00:49:29
listening to this or watching this may
00:49:30
not may not be familiar with who he is,
00:49:31
but he's he's sort of he's the goat,
00:49:33
right? Like he's the greatest that's
00:49:34
ever done the marathon.
00:49:35
>> Yeah. Yeah. And he he doesn't hold the
00:49:37
current world record, but the multiple
00:49:39
times he's broken his own marathon
00:49:41
record and you know from right up from
00:49:44
5,000 10,000 the amount of influence
00:49:47
he's had and um production he's had
00:49:50
inside and outside of running,
00:49:53
>> you know, um he's changed so many lives.
00:49:56
He's um you know, given people jobs.
00:49:58
He's he's he's that guy, man. He's um
00:50:02
you know he he's a superstar and yeah I
00:50:06
don't think anybody outside inside the
00:50:09
running world doesn't
00:50:10
>> respect what he's done for the sport.
00:50:14
>> Um I'm so excited. I'm I'm going to take
00:50:16
him on later this year at the Sydney
00:50:17
Marathon.
00:50:18
>> Yeah, I know. I know. I know.
00:50:19
>> Bring it joy.
00:50:20
>> I know. But uh my my my thought um when
00:50:23
I heard you were going to Sydney was you
00:50:25
know what? I'm going to I'm going to
00:50:26
give him a shot when I get back to Kenya
00:50:28
and um see if at least he has time to
00:50:31
meet you. But um cuz I believe you met
00:50:34
Patrick Sang.
00:50:35
>> Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
00:50:35
>> Was it in Boston?
00:50:37
>> Yeah, it was. Yeah. Um I had a podcast
00:50:39
um with um this American author called
00:50:41
Sarah Gearart who um shadowed Coach Sang
00:50:44
around for a while and wrote a book
00:50:45
about it called We Share the Sun. It's a
00:50:46
great book.
00:50:47
>> So got to meet Patrick. Um yeah, Elliot,
00:50:51
just huge huge fan. So does he sorry I
00:50:53
know this is your podcast but just a
00:50:55
couple more on this.
00:50:56
>> So he from he still lives pretty simply
00:50:59
right? So he's got his own training camp
00:51:01
>> and he's there Monday to Friday then
00:51:02
goes home to for the weekend with his
00:51:05
family or No.
00:51:06
>> Yeah. So the training camp is um
00:51:09
actually owned by his management. So his
00:51:11
management is um you know global
00:51:13
management. It's a it's an agent who
00:51:16
runs that management and um they've
00:51:18
become so big that they have multiple
00:51:20
agents working for that company.
00:51:23
>> Um their job is you know organizing
00:51:26
these athletes uh sporting careers. So
00:51:30
they get them their races, they get them
00:51:32
their shoe contracts, you know, um they
00:51:36
organize their appearance fees, uh which
00:51:38
race is best for them to achieve, you
00:51:40
know, um you know, what number one
00:51:43
making money um and also making a
00:51:47
profile for themselves to better their
00:51:49
career as an athlete and um you know,
00:51:53
>> just become the best they can be. So
00:51:55
that that's the role of their
00:51:57
management. And in Kenya you'll find
00:51:59
managements have these training camps
00:52:01
facilities.
00:52:03
Um so Elliot stays out there with
00:52:07
only athletes of that management and
00:52:09
there you know every management is
00:52:11
close-knit. The athletes obviously train
00:52:14
together spend a lot of time together.
00:52:16
So yeah he's um you know he's the he's
00:52:20
the role model. um very disciplined
00:52:23
lifestyle out there. Very simple. Um but
00:52:27
that's the way he's always done it and
00:52:29
he's motivated to continue to do it.
00:52:32
>> Yeah, he spends time away from his
00:52:34
family and um that's that's a big
00:52:37
sacrifice for him. Um I'm sure he love
00:52:40
to spend more time with his kids, but
00:52:43
yeah, it's um it's tough for him, I'm
00:52:46
sure. But to be successful, that's the
00:52:50
way he needs to do it to be successful.
00:52:52
And um he's still doing it.
00:52:56
>> Still doing it.
00:52:58
>> Discipline, you know.
00:52:58
>> Yeah. And that's um that's one of his
00:53:00
slogans like there's freedom and
00:53:01
discipline.
00:53:03
>> That's the slogan. But I I was in um I
00:53:05
was lucky enough to be in Boston for the
00:53:06
marathon in 2023 where where he in
00:53:09
commas um choked and I think it was
00:53:11
still a top five finish and like 207 or
00:53:14
something like that. and he uh but he
00:53:15
still even though he dropped off the
00:53:17
pace and some are blaming the shoes or
00:53:19
the weather conditions um he didn't DNF
00:53:22
like he just carried on and um gave it
00:53:23
everything he had until the finish which
00:53:25
I I thought spoke volumes about the man.
00:53:27
>> I actually find that more inspiring um
00:53:30
personally that he you know he's known
00:53:33
to win everything and everybody thought
00:53:35
he'd win and
00:53:36
>> the fact that he didn't drop out he took
00:53:38
it like a man finished like that that
00:53:43
spoke to me. I was like, "Good on you,
00:53:45
buddy." Like, I saw him how hurt he was
00:53:47
at the finish and how, you know, he
00:53:50
didn't feel good about his result and I
00:53:51
was like, "That's the athlete and you I
00:53:53
know you're going to come back."
00:53:55
>> But, um, yeah, me and Elliot, we got
00:53:58
something else pretty big in common. And
00:54:00
then um
00:54:03
yeah, I I I hate to say it, but you
00:54:06
know, the may maybe it was the downfall
00:54:09
of his um career of being uh missely
00:54:14
judged.
00:54:16
>> You know, there was a whole lot uh
00:54:18
surrounding Kelvin Kipum's death.
00:54:22
>> Oh, this is the Yeah, he died in a car
00:54:23
crash last year. He was the world record
00:54:25
holder for the marathon.
00:54:26
>> Yeah. So elaborating that for for
00:54:29
everybody listening, yeah, Kelvin Kipum
00:54:31
is the current world record holder. He
00:54:34
came pretty much from nowhere to run um
00:54:38
a few marathons getting quicker and
00:54:40
quicker until he, you know, broke the
00:54:42
world record. And
00:54:45
you know um of course being in sport
00:54:48
everybody said Elliot and um even
00:54:50
Patrick Sang have to be involved and
00:54:52
this is you know because of the way he
00:54:54
died in a car crash and bringing their
00:54:59
names into it like I mean it's crazy how
00:55:02
this sport works man sport is sport
00:55:05
still at the end of the day life and
00:55:08
what we have to go through as
00:55:09
professional athletes is crazy and
00:55:12
Elliot got accused accused of being
00:55:14
somewhat putting a hit out on Kipum and
00:55:20
I mean the amount of rumors that came
00:55:22
around and then people threatening his
00:55:25
family's lives man threatening to burn
00:55:27
down his businesses that have given so
00:55:30
many people jobs and like
00:55:33
just yeah the threat on his life he had
00:55:37
to have security follow him 24/7 and um
00:55:42
I I personally ly felt felt that because
00:55:46
it had nothing to do with him and it
00:55:49
brought him down because you know he's
00:55:50
so he was so used to being this uh you
00:55:54
know public figure inspiring the world
00:55:56
and I think what motivates him is
00:56:00
inspiring other people
00:56:01
>> and now he wasn't feeling like that same
00:56:05
guy that he was inspiring many instead
00:56:08
he's receiving hate
00:56:10
>> to a whole different degree and I
00:56:12
received like a hell of a lot of hate
00:56:15
after my brother's vi doping violation.
00:56:18
Um so I mean it just feels like it was
00:56:23
similar situations and um for me my
00:56:27
running went down as well. I felt um I I
00:56:30
became really depressed.
00:56:32
>> Well, it's an unwarranted uh
00:56:34
distraction, isn't it?
00:56:36
>> Yeah. And uh you know that's like
00:56:39
it's it's it's uncalled for and um
00:56:42
I mean, professional sport, we're always
00:56:45
going to be in the the ey line of the
00:56:47
public and you step a foot wrong or um
00:56:49
something gets accused on you. Um
00:56:52
>> yeah, it will it will play a role one
00:56:55
way or another.
00:56:56
>> Mhm.
00:56:56
>> But it will definitely affect the
00:56:59
athlete,
00:57:01
you know, negatively. M
00:57:04
knowing what you know now um yeah would
00:57:08
you go back to Kenya at the age of 17
00:57:10
with the benefit of hindsight so say so
00:57:12
say so say so say so say so say so say
00:57:12
so say so say so say so say so say so
00:57:12
say so say so say so say so say so say
00:57:12
so say so say so say you could go back
00:57:13
in time and speak to 16year-old um Jake
00:57:17
you know would you would you say don't
00:57:18
do it or would you say do it like has it
00:57:20
has it been a net positive experience
00:57:23
>> so I have this huge life story and uh
00:57:26
the amount of hardship that I've
00:57:28
actually suffered um I don't I think uh
00:57:32
you know I don't recall an athlete
00:57:34
having to deal with all that I've had to
00:57:36
deal with in my career man like I've had
00:57:38
to deal with a lot of extra [ __ ]
00:57:41
that most don't um and if I went back
00:57:46
I I I can't say I and this is me
00:57:49
speaking now because you only have
00:57:51
enough patience in one lifetime to do
00:57:53
that.
00:57:54
>> There's no way in hell I could do it
00:57:55
ever again.
00:57:57
>> There's no way I couldn't suffer that
00:57:58
much.
00:58:00
I I couldn't do it. I can't do it. Um
00:58:04
and if I had to speak to my younger
00:58:06
self, I'd say don't do it. But I'm not
00:58:09
going to have any regrets.
00:58:11
Like I I should have gone for a
00:58:13
scholarship in the States and they were
00:58:14
still calling while I was in Kenya
00:58:16
suffering, but I took the route I did
00:58:18
and um I got my wife and son to show for
00:58:21
it number one.
00:58:23
>> And I can't have regrets of that.
00:58:25
>> Like I have family, man. It's
00:58:28
>> it's everything. You know, that's life
00:58:30
and that's everything. Yeah.
00:58:31
>> But when you say you you were in in
00:58:33
Kenya suffering, like what what do you
00:58:34
mean?
00:58:36
>> Oh man. Um
00:58:38
I mean, let's say life isn't good when
00:58:40
you don't have money and you don't have
00:58:44
um you know, a society where they
00:58:48
understand you. Um you stay through
00:58:54
such a crisis like election violence.
00:58:57
You see death all around you. Um you
00:59:01
suffer medical conditions like malaria,
00:59:04
typhoid, um sicknesses, you know that
00:59:07
you um didn't go to get treatment
00:59:10
because
00:59:12
uh hospitals had abused you um and tried
00:59:15
to make money out of you. And you know,
00:59:18
I almost died. I was I was 18, 19 years
00:59:23
old. I almost died a few times just
00:59:26
lying in bed how sick I was. And um
00:59:30
yeah, we went to bed on a Friday night,
00:59:31
I think it was. And we woke up on
00:59:33
Sunday. Both of me and my brother were
00:59:35
sick at this the same time. We woke up
00:59:37
on Sunday only because one of us woke
00:59:40
up. But that's pretty scary, man. You
00:59:42
sleep for more than 24 hours. There's
00:59:44
something wrong.
00:59:46
>> Like,
00:59:48
so
00:59:50
I've heard stories about it. There was
00:59:52
some YouTube documentary I watched um
00:59:54
and you talk about um yeah the malaria
00:59:57
sleeping on concrete floors for a time
01:00:00
surviving on um just bread with jam on.
01:00:03
>> Yeah. So
01:00:04
>> like you you said before the hotels are
01:00:05
pretty good but uh I feel like you're
01:00:07
glossing over some of the um some of the
01:00:09
some of the gnarly you know crunchy
01:00:11
stuff that you guys went through.
01:00:12
>> Yeah. So once you're out of the hotel
01:00:14
and um we were in Capagat and we got
01:00:16
everything stolen from us cuz the only
01:00:19
camp that was um
01:00:22
like having space at the time was a
01:00:24
rundown camp and a lot of the athletes
01:00:28
there were just trying to avoid farm
01:00:30
work. They were still trying to make it.
01:00:32
Um,
01:00:34
and yeah, those guys stole everything
01:00:37
from us until we had one pair of shoes,
01:00:39
one, you know, our phones went, our
01:00:41
camera went.
01:00:43
We basically had nothing left. Um, and I
01:00:46
ran into someone I'd met the year before
01:00:48
in the World Cross. And he saved us. Um,
01:00:51
he told us, um, come to E10. I'm going
01:00:53
to find you a place to stay. And that
01:00:57
made us move from Cap to get to E10.
01:01:00
And you know, he's the world record
01:01:01
holder for steeplechase. And
01:01:04
>> you know, he's he's known in us a hard
01:01:07
man like um really stubborn and he
01:01:10
people say he's not a gentleman, but
01:01:12
man, what he did for us
01:01:15
and I mean he there was times that he
01:01:17
was hard on us too and um said, you
01:01:20
know, when we're speaking too much about
01:01:21
training, he said, "Oh, that's nothing.
01:01:23
You've done nothing."
01:01:26
Uh you know, just to make us wake up.
01:01:28
and um realize actually
01:01:32
we still got levels to go before we ever
01:01:35
do what he's done.
01:01:36
>> Yeah.
01:01:37
>> Um but yeah, I mean as we moved to E10,
01:01:41
he offered to buy us a mattress
01:01:45
and he bought us a mattress. He wanted
01:01:48
us to ask for two mattresses. I was
01:01:51
like, "Man, you're doing enough." Like
01:01:53
we didn't we stayed um quiet. We didn't
01:01:55
ask for anything. So we ended up
01:01:57
sleeping on the same mattress on a you
01:02:00
know concrete floor in a like what 9 by9
01:02:05
room single room concrete cell.
01:02:08
Yeah. Um has bars on the window you know
01:02:11
so it does feel like a jail cell you
01:02:14
know and um we stayed there and
01:02:17
yeah I mean all these stories are so
01:02:19
long because you know one thing moves to
01:02:22
another cuz people will be like how did
01:02:23
you survive? always it kept moving. The
01:02:26
ball kept rolling and um anytime that we
01:02:29
were at our lowest of lows, there was
01:02:31
something positive to pick us up,
01:02:34
>> you know. Um Shaheeni got injured
01:02:37
and that's when we survived on bread and
01:02:39
jam from the local shop as you know.
01:02:41
They um weren't cooking and we didn't
01:02:43
have access to their cooking room
01:02:46
anymore. And um
01:02:49
then you know St. Patrick's picked us up
01:02:52
which was under brother column had some
01:02:54
great athletes Commonwealth champion at
01:02:56
the time Austin Chigi
01:02:59
um a young David Reddisha
01:03:01
>> 800 meter world record holder you know
01:03:04
um
01:03:04
>> he was in high school at the time and
01:03:07
you know to be part of such a de they
01:03:09
pulled us to their camp and um to be
01:03:12
part of such a development de like
01:03:15
developing group was um where I learned
01:03:18
a lot also So
01:03:20
>> and you know the ball kept rolling.
01:03:24
>> Yeah. It's literally just putting one
01:03:25
foot in front of the other. Eh, just
01:03:27
keep moving.
01:03:28
>> Yeah. But I mean it's it's never easy to
01:03:30
get your ass kicked by so many athletes.
01:03:34
>> Um when you thought you were pretty
01:03:36
good, you know, coming out of New
01:03:39
Zealand and um
01:03:40
>> Yeah, it's humbling.
01:03:42
>> Yeah, it's humbling. But uh we was just
01:03:44
so driven like and had self-belief that
01:03:48
you know we're young, we're going to
01:03:50
make it.
01:03:52
And yeah, at the time we were living
01:03:53
together, but I believe it was um
01:03:58
I believe it was like 2009 that we
01:04:02
started living
01:04:04
more so apart.
01:04:06
>> Yeah. So
01:04:08
>> really are you and your brother? Yeah.
01:04:10
>> Just just sort of becoming individuals.
01:04:12
>> Yeah. So, you know, we were growing and
01:04:14
we were, you know, fighting too much.
01:04:17
Brothers fight, man.
01:04:18
>> You know,
01:04:20
>> so he he decided to go with a couple of
01:04:22
his friends and rent a place and uh I
01:04:25
stayed where I was and you know, he'd
01:04:28
come back to this place in the weekend
01:04:30
and we were training actually he was
01:04:32
more in capt again and uh I was more in
01:04:35
where we were. Um and you know I was you
01:04:41
know starting to train with GPOi at the
01:04:42
time and um at the track and yeah we
01:04:46
just it was good for us to become men
01:04:49
you know
01:04:50
>> spend time alone but uh when we really
01:04:53
fully separated like was after the World
01:04:56
Cross in Spain I think that was in 2010
01:05:05
if I'm not Oh
01:05:07
>> yeah. No, 2011 March
01:05:10
>> and uh he moved to Ethiopia,
01:05:13
completely different country. Went to
01:05:15
chase a girl.
01:05:18
To be fair, he won. He got a girlfriend
01:05:20
out of it. Um and I stayed put and he
01:05:24
did and I got with Maggie, you know.
01:05:28
Did your um did your parents have any
01:05:30
idea like how how bleak it was? like the
01:05:32
the malaria coming close to death, you
01:05:35
know, surviving on like jam sandwiches.
01:05:37
>> No, man. Cuz
01:05:38
>> did you not tell them?
01:05:39
>> We're not going to tell them. No,
01:05:41
>> because because they would have made you
01:05:43
come home or
01:05:44
>> Yeah. So,
01:05:44
>> or they would have been concerned.
01:05:46
>> Yeah. People have this idea that our our
01:05:48
parents were not good like No, they were
01:05:52
good to us. like anytime we were in
01:05:54
struggles or anytime we needed to fly to
01:05:56
Ethiopia or go across the border to
01:05:59
Uganda to renew our visa, they they
01:06:01
would support us with some cash and that
01:06:04
we would you know get it done. But uh we
01:06:07
were not going to complain to them even
01:06:09
through election violence, all the stuff
01:06:11
that we got to see or you know death
01:06:13
surrounding us. It's like we were not
01:06:16
going to tell them how it was and we
01:06:18
were never the target.
01:06:20
So that's all we told them. Hey, as bad
01:06:22
as things are, there's no power any 10.
01:06:25
You know, power went off for two weeks.
01:06:28
Couldn't charge a cell phone. So, the
01:06:29
last phone call was, hey, we're going to
01:06:31
be okay, but know that we're not going
01:06:33
to be able to charge your cell phone and
01:06:35
we're not going to be able to speak. So,
01:06:37
whatever you're seeing on the news, and
01:06:38
it was worldwide,
01:06:40
you know, as bad as it looks,
01:06:43
um, know that we're going to be okay.
01:06:45
Like the police had been taking all
01:06:49
foreigners uh the few that were there
01:06:51
like to the airports flying everybody
01:06:53
out. Me and Zane was we were sound. We
01:06:55
were just like we're not going anywhere.
01:06:58
>> Why?
01:06:59
>> We were crazy, man. We wanted to make it
01:07:02
like we we were so driven and we just
01:07:05
believed that being there we were going
01:07:07
to make it as pros. we were going to,
01:07:10
you know, do what we set out to do and
01:07:13
there was no backing down. No matter
01:07:15
what the challenge, it was we were going
01:07:17
to make it.
01:07:19
Yeah.
01:07:22
Um, you've talked about like the the
01:07:24
election violence and the violence in
01:07:26
the street and I've I've heard about a
01:07:28
thing called necklacing. What's
01:07:29
necklacing?
01:07:31
>> Oh, necklacing. Um, I actually found out
01:07:34
what that was when somebody threatened
01:07:37
to necklace my brother. Um, which is
01:07:40
apparently um putting
01:07:44
uh tires around you like rubber tires,
01:07:47
car tires, track tires, whatever, and
01:07:49
burning you alive.
01:07:52
So after my brother spoke out at the
01:07:54
2016 um Rio Olympics about how doping is
01:07:58
involved in the sport and um
01:08:02
particularly you know there was a lot
01:08:05
surrounding Kenya at the time. um some
01:08:08
Kenyan media journalists um
01:08:12
you know took to it and uh threatened to
01:08:14
necklace him said you know you should be
01:08:16
proud of Kenya because uh you've been
01:08:19
here and had success through here
01:08:22
and I knew it was not good because even
01:08:26
I felt like the IAAF
01:08:28
and
01:08:30
uh all the you know everything
01:08:32
surrounding our sport was already in
01:08:34
disarray. It was like
01:08:37
>> you are bringing more distribute to the
01:08:40
sport like it it doesn't need more
01:08:42
negativity but
01:08:44
I was like I know he's trying to do
01:08:46
something good
01:08:48
but
01:08:51
I think he was maybe pushed to like say
01:08:54
something by media and if anyone knows
01:08:57
my brother he got no filter so
01:08:59
>> he said something.
01:09:01
>> Yeah. Um that's an alarming threat
01:09:02
though. Even if it's just like an empty
01:09:05
threat like the threat of necklacing,
01:09:06
it's um it's terrifying and quite
01:09:09
concerning.
01:09:12
>> Yeah. I mean any any death threat and
01:09:14
you you're in a foreign land still with
01:09:16
you know it it is it is. So
01:09:22
>> yeah, I was I was on edge after that.
01:09:24
That's pretty much why I kind of
01:09:27
>> got off Facebook or got off um some
01:09:31
things at the time.
01:09:33
>> Yeah.
01:09:34
>> Um did your brother have a point then?
01:09:36
Like was um performance-enhancing drugs
01:09:39
rien the sport at that point? So news
01:09:42
had just been kind of broken um about
01:09:44
Kenya and being this huge having like a
01:09:50
huge doping problem and and I was I was
01:09:56
still naive to it and everybody's going
01:09:59
to be like what how you live there. I
01:10:02
had never seen or heard of anything
01:10:05
until that point of Kenya being a like
01:10:08
as bad as it was. And then I started to
01:10:10
look back in hindsight and see things
01:10:13
and and think of things stiffly. And I'm
01:10:15
I'm starting to become so negative that
01:10:18
I realized like, hey man, it doesn't
01:10:21
change anything. You're still going to
01:10:23
have to go and compete against these
01:10:24
guys. And there was so many foreign
01:10:27
athletes traveling through E10 at the
01:10:30
time, like German team, national German
01:10:32
teams, Mo,
01:10:34
>> national British teams, you know, and we
01:10:36
would all talk about it. I'd see these
01:10:38
guys, you know, I'd train with Moart.
01:10:40
I'd go and have a conversation with him
01:10:43
about and
01:10:45
and
01:10:46
yeah, I mean we we spoke so much about
01:10:49
it to the point where I was like, you
01:10:52
know what,
01:10:54
I came to this I was like, I want to be
01:10:55
proud of what I do. I'm going to
01:10:57
continue what I can do and
01:11:01
I believe I can compete with them still
01:11:06
>> and beat them.
01:11:08
And it wasn't until, you know, a few
01:11:10
years on where a professor from the UK
01:11:14
saved my career that he really made me
01:11:16
genuinely believe that because I was
01:11:18
speaking a high game, but
01:11:21
in the back of your head as an athlete,
01:11:22
it's it's tough, man. You
01:11:24
>> How did the professor do that?
01:11:27
>> I mean, uh, well, I was I was injured
01:11:30
for almost two years and everybody kept
01:11:32
treating my calf. Um,
01:11:36
this professor saved my career. He
01:11:39
scanned my back. Uh, he gave me uh my
01:11:43
first epidural into L45
01:11:46
bulge in my um spine. Um, and
01:11:51
yeah, it's instantly he gave me a prehab
01:11:54
and rehab program and he said, "You you
01:11:57
know what? You're going to have to do
01:11:58
this every day of your life to be able
01:12:01
to run or train at the level that you do
01:12:05
and compete. And even postc career,
01:12:07
you'll have to do it just to be normal.
01:12:09
>> Mhm.
01:12:10
>> And at the time it sucked and I was like
01:12:12
in disbelief, you know, but I I was
01:12:15
like, what what else am I going to do?
01:12:17
So I gave it a chance
01:12:19
>> and he also was preaching to me at the
01:12:21
time. If you do this, you're going to be
01:12:25
a part of breaking two. You're going to
01:12:28
be a part of the sub two-hour marathon
01:12:30
thing. And you know what? You're going
01:12:34
to be very successful.
01:12:37
And I was like, what? You know, had the
01:12:39
conversation about drugs with him. And
01:12:41
he's like,
01:12:43
he encouraged me that drugs only speed
01:12:46
up the process to get to your highest
01:12:49
level. Um, which to be honest, I still
01:12:53
don't believe. I still believe they make
01:12:55
you a hell of a lot better. There's some
01:12:58
freaky performances out there, but yeah,
01:13:01
I mean, he he made me believe that I can
01:13:03
compete with them.
01:13:06
And because of that self-belief and the
01:13:08
training that he had me now doing and a
01:13:10
whole it changed my perspective. I was
01:13:12
no longer just waking up in the morning
01:13:14
going for my runs out the door. I was
01:13:18
waking up doing half an hour, 45 minutes
01:13:21
of pre like pre-run routine on a foam
01:13:25
roller stretching activation for all the
01:13:28
muscles and that level of
01:13:30
professionalism went up like 10fold. uh
01:13:35
it changed me and instantaneously I had
01:13:38
results
01:13:39
and you know I hadn't made any money in
01:13:43
my career substantially to any point but
01:13:47
that year that he took over and I I made
01:13:49
the decision I'm going all in like this
01:13:52
I have to do it. I made more money in
01:13:56
the first two races
01:13:59
um under under him in my than my whole
01:14:02
career. Wow.
01:14:03
>> To that point
01:14:04
>> like um like prize money or is it
01:14:07
appearance money? Yeah. Yeah. Cuz you
01:14:09
can you explain like how how that works?
01:14:11
Like you mentioned the Puma deal earlier
01:14:13
before which fell through your fingers.
01:14:15
Um but yeah, how how does like a really
01:14:18
really good long-distance athlete make
01:14:20
money?
01:14:21
>> Well, so yeah, number one, it's if you
01:14:24
sign with a shoe company, that's like,
01:14:27
you know, that's your base salary.
01:14:28
That's like any other job in the world,
01:14:30
you know. And um obviously you sign with
01:14:34
that brand. You're not allowed to wear
01:14:35
competing companies. You wear those
01:14:38
shoes, you promote them on social media
01:14:41
and you run and you perform to the best
01:14:45
that you can with that company wearing
01:14:47
only that brand. They give you a base
01:14:50
salary. Now there may be bonuses,
01:14:53
rollovers for the years um if you
01:14:56
perform well in a race, you may get
01:14:58
added salary to the remainder years of
01:15:00
your contract. That's number one. So
01:15:03
that that's like the biggest safety net
01:15:05
for us athletes. Now number two is you
01:15:08
know the the competitions we go to
01:15:11
um many times we have to look into so
01:15:13
many factors whether it be is it just a
01:15:16
money race? Are we going there to
01:15:17
collect
01:15:19
uh a parents fee? Because people don't
01:15:22
understand this is we get our hotel and
01:15:24
transport like flights all paid. We go
01:15:27
there but as a safety net and uh respect
01:15:33
from the race to us to come and perform.
01:15:36
we get an appearance fee if we are a you
01:15:39
know a big athlete with a big profile
01:15:41
that will uh bring interest to their
01:15:44
event for people to watch.
01:15:47
>> So the bigger the name the bigger the
01:15:49
appearance fee
01:15:51
>> you know
01:15:51
>> so for example the Sydney Marathon it's
01:15:53
the this year it's the first time it's a
01:15:55
world marathon major um Elliot Kipogi is
01:15:58
going there so they might be paying him
01:16:00
like a couple hundred thousand half a
01:16:02
million.
01:16:03
>> Yep. Yep. For sure. um you know him
01:16:06
being a big name and you know the goat
01:16:08
of our sport he uh he would probably get
01:16:11
a couple hundred,000 US just to show up
01:16:15
>> uh also to these appearance fees
01:16:20
if you DNF which means you don't finish
01:16:22
um you'll get your appearance fee
01:16:24
slashed in half 50%
01:16:27
um so you only get 50% but you still get
01:16:31
something
01:16:32
>> for your time because 3 months
01:16:34
preparation ation all that training you
01:16:36
put in and you might you might reach 35k
01:16:40
and have to stop cuz you get injured
01:16:44
you're not going to be able to race
01:16:45
another marathon in a week's time
01:16:47
>> you're not going to be able to race
01:16:49
another marathon in a month's time so to
01:16:52
come away with a little bit of money
01:16:54
>> from it still is like you know the
01:16:56
safety net um so I call like the
01:17:00
appearance fees the safety net
01:17:02
>> some people may make a a decision like I
01:17:06
have had to and go to a race that was
01:17:09
not paying me any appearance fee. But we
01:17:12
believed in ourselves so hard like that
01:17:15
I would perform to make it worthwhile.
01:17:18
>> I've traveled to a race, upgraded myself
01:17:21
to business class so I'd get there, it
01:17:23
was a long travel to Houston
01:17:26
and I upgraded myself to business class
01:17:28
so I could sleep on the flight and get
01:17:30
there in, you know, 100% condition.
01:17:34
you know, um, not as jetlagged.
01:17:36
And I was looking at the prize money and
01:17:38
I was like, you know what? If I place in
01:17:41
the top three, I'll make enough money to
01:17:44
cover that bill, which my agent was
01:17:47
covering for me, and then also make some
01:17:50
money. And I won the race. And, uh, you
01:17:54
know, that was a ris that was a risk I
01:17:56
was willing to take cuz I backed myself.
01:17:58
I was in the best shape of my life.
01:18:00
Yeah.
01:18:02
But uh yeah, that's that's making money
01:18:04
and also we you know racing for prize
01:18:06
money. Some races have more than others.
01:18:10
>> So to get to that level, what's what
01:18:13
does the training look like? Like an
01:18:14
average training week when you're say
01:18:16
deep into like a marathon cycle like
01:18:19
what's what does a really big week look
01:18:20
like? So you you guys have shared a lot
01:18:22
on social media. You you don't mess
01:18:24
around when you're training, do you?
01:18:26
Like I don't see a lot of watches. Um
01:18:28
there's no not an um an air earpod in
01:18:31
sight like you're not clowning around.
01:18:34
>> No. So hard days are very hard and very
01:18:36
serious. You do get nervous the night
01:18:40
before a hard training. Most athletes
01:18:42
actually struggle to sleep. It's like
01:18:45
pre-race almost. You're getting that
01:18:47
nervousness, that tension, and it's like
01:18:51
dress rehearsal before rodeo, you know?
01:18:53
like you get a little bit of that when
01:18:55
you're going to join these big groups
01:18:57
and you have that hard workout. You know
01:19:00
what you're doing
01:19:02
>> and you know I like to manifest like
01:19:05
sometimes and I I always tell myself
01:19:08
it's go time in the morning like and get
01:19:11
some. It's time to get some. You ha you
01:19:14
have to as an athlete to do what you do
01:19:17
in training those hard days.
01:19:21
Uh,
01:19:23
funnily enough, I enjoy
01:19:26
I hate the easy days because I'm I'm
01:19:29
trying so hard to recover from those
01:19:31
hard days. It's so much pain, so much
01:19:35
like that we go through on those easy
01:19:37
days and you just still have to go out
01:19:39
there and do it. An easy day might be
01:19:42
20k
01:19:44
uh run in the morning and that's like
01:19:47
what
01:19:47
>> and what what sort of pace are we
01:19:49
talking?
01:19:50
Oh, so for me, uh, it can be anywhere
01:19:53
from a
01:19:55
a 400 average to a, you know, 418, 420
01:20:01
average.
01:20:03
Um, that's an easy day. Yeah. Rolling
01:20:06
hills, altitude, all that to the mix,
01:20:08
you know. Um, but our hard days may be
01:20:11
something like a 40k long run with a a
01:20:14
312 average.
01:20:16
>> Oh my god. So, you know, you're running
01:20:18
a marathon at uh what a a 216 kind of
01:20:24
215
01:20:26
pace at altitude,
01:20:28
you know,
01:20:29
>> at altitude and on sort of Yeah. What
01:20:31
surface are you running on? It looks
01:20:32
like sort of clay or dirt.
01:20:34
>> Yeah. So for the hard trainings, a lot
01:20:36
of the time these days, we'll go to the
01:20:37
tarmac um road cuz it used to be this
01:20:41
famous road used to be uh like a a red
01:20:44
soil dirt um but day tarmac did now. You
01:20:48
know, Kenya's
01:20:50
>> progressive.
01:20:50
>> Yeah, it's progressing. So, you know,
01:20:53
with the shoe technology,
01:20:55
um we just put in our, you know, races.
01:20:58
They save us from the impact and
01:21:00
>> yeah,
01:21:01
>> yeah, we obviously training times got
01:21:04
faster.
01:21:05
>> Incredible. What's your relationship
01:21:07
like with um like Athletics New Zealand
01:21:10
and High Performance Sport New Zealand?
01:21:12
I feel like they sort of shunned you
01:21:13
guys a bit.
01:21:15
>> Did they have you been unfairly treated
01:21:17
by them?
01:21:18
>> Rightfully so. I mean, with for my
01:21:20
brother.
01:21:21
>> Yeah,
01:21:21
>> rightfully so. I mean,
01:21:23
>> since the ban. Yeah. But for me,
01:21:25
>> I thought, by the way, I think it's
01:21:26
worth pointing out in the podcast I did
01:21:27
with him, I think he said the duty of
01:21:29
care from them had been pretty good at
01:21:30
that point.
01:21:32
>> Maybe that was in the podcast or maybe
01:21:33
it was a message to me afterwards. I
01:21:34
thought they
01:21:35
>> I don't think he complained about how
01:21:37
how they handled the fallout from his
01:21:39
doping ban.
01:21:40
>> See, there was there was somebody came
01:21:42
out to Kenya um and I do think that
01:21:46
maybe Athletics New Zealand had some
01:21:48
role to play with that. I had no idea at
01:21:50
the time, but looking back, I think
01:21:52
maybe he and he was to help with, you
01:21:54
know, his job was to help with mental
01:21:56
health, but I had no idea he was there
01:21:58
for Zayn.
01:21:59
>> Um,
01:22:02
for from my perspective, like following
01:22:06
the announcement, I have no idea if they
01:22:09
helped them or not. I think they just
01:22:10
pulled out.
01:22:12
>> I don't think they helped them post,
01:22:14
which was the worst time.
01:22:16
>> Yeah. Um I feel and I'm not shying away
01:22:19
from this. I feel abused by them because
01:22:22
they did not
01:22:24
they did not uh tell me about this. I
01:22:28
had taken a trip with my family
01:22:31
um that year. I was walking around uh
01:22:33
the headquarters um in uh Oakland with
01:22:37
my wife and son and my mother and I had
01:22:40
no idea my brother was being
01:22:41
investigated. And it is the IAAF rules
01:22:45
that they're not supposed to. But they
01:22:49
should have known this was going to
01:22:50
affect me.
01:22:52
>> And when the news did drop, they did not
01:22:54
even release a statement saying this is
01:22:57
for Zayn Robertson. Make make no
01:22:59
mistake, Jake Robertson
01:23:02
is not involved with this.
01:23:05
They knew that it was going to affect me
01:23:07
like it was me getting banned, too. But
01:23:10
they did not they did not, you know,
01:23:12
defend me at all. They could have
01:23:14
released to the media saying this has
01:23:16
nothing to do with Jake Robertson at
01:23:18
least at very least, but they didn't.
01:23:21
>> And I I feel like, you know, I feel
01:23:24
pretty bad some kind of way about them.
01:23:27
Um
01:23:28
>> they've never reached out to me ever
01:23:29
since.
01:23:31
>> Yeah. What about what about other stuff
01:23:32
before that? Like we um Olympic
01:23:35
selection and things like that.
01:23:38
um to that point. Uh they've been pretty
01:23:41
good to me.
01:23:41
>> Yeah,
01:23:42
>> there was uh you know they they've
01:23:44
always got new people coming in and out
01:23:46
of office and um the ones who were
01:23:49
involved at the time, an Australian man,
01:23:51
he was he was really good to me.
01:23:53
>> Yeah.
01:23:53
>> He um selected me for the teams because,
01:23:56
you know, I'd qualified
01:23:58
>> and they'd try and support me in ways
01:24:00
that they could being so far away.
01:24:04
Um,
01:24:06
you know, it's it's it's tough like but
01:24:10
I missed the Olympics going back right
01:24:13
to 2012 London.
01:24:15
>> Mhm.
01:24:16
>> For one reason or another. Um, Japan was
01:24:20
co I got CO so I couldn't go.
01:24:24
And that that's probably the worst one
01:24:26
for me. The others I got injured. Rio I
01:24:29
was injured.
01:24:29
>> Yeah,
01:24:30
>> that one sucked. My brother went and
01:24:32
performed pretty well.
01:24:34
Um but yeah, it's
01:24:38
selection policy and everything up to
01:24:40
that day. Um up until my brother's
01:24:42
violation, um I never had any problem
01:24:44
with them.
01:24:45
>> Yeah. So what do they base it on? So you
01:24:47
have to hit the qualifying times and
01:24:48
then that they just need to work out if
01:24:50
there's a chance that you'll perform
01:24:52
well or be competitive. How does it
01:24:54
work?
01:24:55
>> Yeah. So now it's it's it's pretty
01:24:57
ridiculous. The outright qualifying time
01:25:00
is I think it's 2 and a half minutes
01:25:03
quicker than the New Zealand record.
01:25:04
>> M
01:25:05
>> so to hit that outright is pretty crazy.
01:25:08
I still believe I can run that for the
01:25:10
marathon. 206 I think it is now. But um
01:25:15
yeah, it's it's tough. And if you're not
01:25:17
going to do it that way, then you need
01:25:18
to qualify through points. IAF is
01:25:21
basically the World Athletics Federation
01:25:24
and they're trying to make people
01:25:26
compete more frequently. It shouldn't go
01:25:29
into the marathon sport because
01:25:31
marathoning is not like sprinting or
01:25:34
that you can sprint, you know, races
01:25:36
every week or a couple of times a week.
01:25:40
You know, we only get the chance maybe
01:25:42
to do two marathons in a year.
01:25:45
And if we fail in one, which is very
01:25:49
likely, there's 42.2K
01:25:51
for something to go wrong. And it can go
01:25:54
wrong like for so many reasons. But um
01:25:58
>> yeah, to try and make us compete more
01:26:01
frequently is the wrong idea. And this
01:26:03
point system is actually a bad idea for
01:26:05
our sport, I believe.
01:26:07
>> And Athletics New Zealand, um they kind
01:26:11
of have to go with that criteria for
01:26:13
selection now. And
01:26:16
yeah, I mean, government funding wise, I
01:26:18
don't think they have things going their
01:26:20
way. So, it's not it's not all on them.
01:26:23
>> Yeah.
01:26:24
>> Yeah.
01:26:25
>> Um, yes. Be become um clear to me in
01:26:29
this conversation today just um you the
01:26:32
the impact that your brother's actions
01:26:33
have had on you. It's um Yeah, it's
01:26:36
devastating.
01:26:38
>> Yeah. Yeah. And um you know it's taken
01:26:40
me a couple years and my performance has
01:26:43
definitely dropped
01:26:45
>> due to how how emotionally and um
01:26:48
mentally
01:26:50
>> you know I suffered man like
01:26:53
>> I was I was in a really really bad state
01:26:55
and uh
01:26:58
>> you know if there was a a book or
01:27:00
something I'd probably release a couple
01:27:02
of
01:27:04
you know near near bad situations I got
01:27:07
myself into post that M
01:27:09
>> but yeah, I was uh
01:27:11
>> what do you want to elaborate,
01:27:13
>> man? You're going to take me to that
01:27:15
place again.
01:27:16
Oh man, I uh
01:27:20
Yeah, I'd ra I'd rather not.
01:27:22
>> Okay,
01:27:24
>> because people will judge me for that,
01:27:25
man. But
01:27:28
>> ah people would judge you regardless.
01:27:30
But it's um Yeah, it's No, no, no. I
01:27:33
Yeah, we don't have to go there. But I I
01:27:35
just think it's um it's it's good to
01:27:37
share because it just goes to show that
01:27:39
the the the impact that this has had on
01:27:40
you even though you know you it had
01:27:43
absolutely nothing to do with you.
01:27:45
>> I've seen that a lot on this podcast
01:27:47
like you know [ __ ] things happen to good
01:27:49
people.
01:27:53
>> Yeah. So I I I
01:27:57
do you know I have a family of my own
01:27:59
and it always came back to that. So, I'd
01:28:04
like to think of this like my son saved
01:28:06
me.
01:28:08
>> And I mean, people are going to say or
01:28:11
whatever, you know, that I shouldn't
01:28:12
have even got to that state, but I did.
01:28:15
And it's hard because, you know, I I was
01:28:19
suffering like uh a lot of things as
01:28:21
well, you know, health conditions and
01:28:23
all this. B on. But yeah, I mean,
01:28:28
feeling like you got no way forward. um
01:28:32
your wife's just come back from
01:28:33
maternity leave and um you know she's
01:28:37
she doesn't have a running contract and
01:28:39
how's your family going to survive you
01:28:41
got no contract you're not making money
01:28:43
anymore
01:28:45
so instead of counting your blessings
01:28:47
you always start to count you know as a
01:28:49
man as a father you know you're supposed
01:28:51
to provide for your family and that
01:28:53
really got to me man beyond anything
01:28:57
>> I was like stuck races wouldn't didn't
01:29:00
have me. I'd won these races in 2018.
01:29:03
Anything to do with the Boston Marathon
01:29:05
community like that they
01:29:08
uh will let you come to the like races.
01:29:12
They won't have me still.
01:29:14
Um a famous Peach Tree road race in um
01:29:18
Atlanta. They wouldn't have me year one.
01:29:22
I was getting like frustrated. My agent
01:29:25
was calling me saying, "They say your
01:29:27
name's tainted.
01:29:29
And you know, to be fair, Peach Tree had
01:29:32
me back here, too, and they said,
01:29:34
"Sorry, man.
01:29:36
At the time, it was just too hard to
01:29:38
have you, but we we really are happy to
01:29:41
have you back." And I forgive them
01:29:43
fully. They're awesome, and their race
01:29:45
is awesome. But, you know, there's a lot
01:29:47
of races that still say they can't have
01:29:50
me, and I I'm, you know, not able to go
01:29:53
to where I want to go to and compete for
01:29:56
money. So I was stuck. I couldn't
01:30:00
perform. I I was in a bad state, man. So
01:30:06
yeah, I you know,
01:30:08
>> yes, I I get that. Seems like a a
01:30:11
hopeless situation. And anyone that
01:30:13
hasn't been in that sort of state, yeah,
01:30:16
I wouldn't expect them to understand,
01:30:17
but anyone that has uh will empathize
01:30:19
with you and understand what you're what
01:30:21
you're talking about. You know, if
01:30:22
yesterday was a bad day, the day before
01:30:24
was a bad day, the day before that was a
01:30:26
bad day, sometimes you think, well,
01:30:28
tomorrow's going to be more of the same.
01:30:29
Like, tomorrow's not going to be any
01:30:31
different. And it seems like a hopeless
01:30:33
situation that you can find yourself in.
01:30:34
That's just um that's mental health, eh?
01:30:37
Yeah, it's um
01:30:39
>> yeah, I think I think all our
01:30:42
professional athletes
01:30:44
um go through some bad stages at some
01:30:46
point
01:30:47
>> and it's just you know it's not only
01:30:50
part to do with the sport but how much
01:30:52
pressure the public put on us and then
01:30:56
how much hate you can receive at points
01:30:58
like I just finished watching um you
01:31:01
know Netflix series on David Beckham.
01:31:04
Wow, man. What he had to go through.
01:31:07
Like all of England, all of the UK
01:31:10
chanting, you know, and people stringing
01:31:13
up.
01:31:13
>> Oh, burning effiges.
01:31:15
>> Like stringing up, you know, hanging
01:31:17
dolls with the Beckham jersey. Like, he
01:31:19
deserves
01:31:20
>> uh to be hung for the mistake he made in
01:31:23
the World Cup. Like, come on, man. I
01:31:26
come to say this again. Like, sports
01:31:28
sport at the end of the day.
01:31:30
>> We got families. We got kids who can
01:31:33
read media articles about us and like
01:31:38
we're supposed to be okay with that. No,
01:31:40
it's going to affect us one way or
01:31:42
another.
01:31:43
>> You know, I had this chat to your
01:31:46
brother on the when we did the podcast a
01:31:48
few years ago and it's, you know, people
01:31:51
that are getting mad at him online, it's
01:31:52
like, how does it impact their life in
01:31:54
any like way, shape or form? Like it
01:31:56
like it doesn't. It feels like you're
01:31:57
angry about something that doesn't
01:31:58
concern you at all. And I had a great
01:32:00
even greater understanding of that once
01:32:02
he explained his circumstances and his
01:32:04
reasons for, you know, making that poor
01:32:06
decision. But it's like, seriously, does
01:32:09
anyone else care that much?
01:32:11
>> Like to send hate a hateful DM to a
01:32:14
stranger? It's like, come on. So yeah, I
01:32:16
I I got to foresee all that that led to
01:32:20
his, you know, his lifestyle changing,
01:32:22
his, you know, bad partner like um I I
01:32:26
foraw all that and I man, it was it was
01:32:30
bad. like it was bad and then he had
01:32:33
some bad influences around him and um
01:32:36
yeah I never imagined it would lead to
01:32:38
where it led to
01:32:40
>> but yeah the way the way people
01:32:42
responded I know New Zealand's this
01:32:44
proud small country that you know has
01:32:48
this you know talent pool that very few
01:32:51
make it and he is one of them and
01:32:55
you know I don't know if they're
01:32:57
embarrassed or they just they they just
01:33:00
went over the top in the sense of, you
01:33:02
know, how people reacted to that, but
01:33:04
yeah, it doesn't actually affect their
01:33:06
household.
01:33:06
>> Well, you've got a guy that's thrown
01:33:08
everything he knows away, right? Like
01:33:10
moved to Well, you were there the same
01:33:12
day. You moved to Kenya when you were
01:33:13
16, 17. You had this whole career, then
01:33:16
you get a 10-year ban, which means you
01:33:18
everything you've known is over. It's
01:33:19
like that's the time where people should
01:33:21
be rallying around someone, not sending
01:33:24
them a message. Bear in mind, they don't
01:33:25
even know him, saying, "Oh, you're a
01:33:26
piece of [ __ ] You should
01:33:28
>> It's disgusting. So, you know where it
01:33:30
got it got me is the the people that
01:33:33
know us and they know him like and they
01:33:37
were messaging him during that bad time
01:33:39
negative things like pushing him off the
01:33:41
edge. I'm like what the hell is going
01:33:44
on?
01:33:46
>> It like I get it that they haven't been
01:33:49
successful like to that certain
01:33:52
top tier in the sport. They've been
01:33:54
successful, but
01:33:56
>> oh, you know, it it really blew my mind,
01:34:00
man.
01:34:01
>> Did have you had any therapy or
01:34:02
anything?
01:34:03
>> No.
01:34:04
>> No. How did How have you got through
01:34:06
this?
01:34:08
>> My son, man.
01:34:10
>> Yeah.
01:34:11
>> Just holding on to hope, eh?
01:34:13
>> Yeah. Blocking, you know, I've always
01:34:16
been, like I said, from a young age,
01:34:17
good at blocking stuff, but uh yeah, I
01:34:21
go through phases still. I uh some weeks
01:34:25
I feel like I I beat it and then other
01:34:28
weeks something hits me and it's like
01:34:32
just
01:34:34
you're you're riding waves, you know,
01:34:36
and I don't know if like I don't know if
01:34:39
I'll fully ever get over this, but I I
01:34:41
got to do the best I can right now. And
01:34:44
>> um looked forward to what I got going
01:34:47
for me. And you know, my son's always
01:34:49
going to be there. Um,
01:34:52
>> yeah. I mean,
01:34:54
>> what's the um relationship like with um
01:34:57
Zayn now? When did you How often do you
01:34:59
guys see each other?
01:35:01
Is Is everything all good?
01:35:04
>> I Yeah. So, I haven't seen him for quite
01:35:08
some time.
01:35:10
Um,
01:35:12
like I said, we're just in different
01:35:13
stages of our
01:35:15
>> This isn't a rift because of the band
01:35:17
thing, are you? You were on different
01:35:18
paths prior to that. completely nothing
01:35:20
to do with that at all. Um
01:35:23
and completely nothing to do with his
01:35:25
other court cases and all that. Um I
01:35:28
know New Zealand wrote some terrible
01:35:31
um terrible articles. In fact, one
01:35:34
that's should he should actually sue for
01:35:36
deface and you know like cuz it was
01:35:38
completely false
01:35:40
you know um what they wrote. But uh yeah
01:35:43
it has nothing to do with that. I've
01:35:45
just been through a lot for him. I had
01:35:48
to drop everything
01:35:50
um a number of times to run around, you
01:35:53
know, drop my training and just try and
01:35:54
save him. And um
01:35:58
some sometimes I think, you know, I feel
01:36:01
unappreciated for everything I've had to
01:36:05
do and you know what I've sacrificed.
01:36:07
But um generally now it's just you know
01:36:11
we're different stages and different
01:36:13
places in our lives. So it's
01:36:17
We we're okay, but we're not we're not
01:36:19
hating. We're not loving like together
01:36:22
all the time. So, it's
01:36:24
>> you're not sharing a a mattress on the
01:36:25
floor together at the moment.
01:36:27
>> Yeah, man.
01:36:28
>> So, you'll always be brothers, but yeah.
01:36:30
You can you be friends again?
01:36:32
>> Yeah. So, you know, in a way, I'm I'm
01:36:34
sick of defending him and I'm But what
01:36:36
are you supposed to do? M
01:36:39
>> like I like I said, I saw everything
01:36:41
that happened that led to his bad
01:36:44
decisions and I don't
01:36:46
>> I don't fully blame him, man.
01:36:49
>> It's like uh it was really hard.
01:36:54
>> Yeah. And I don't think you can
01:36:55
empathize or understand until you've
01:36:57
been in someone else's shoes. Eh,
01:36:59
>> yeah. And I mean I've heard I've heard
01:37:01
multiple people even you know what you
01:37:04
just quoted like Kipoki said that man
01:37:08
>> Elliot said we can't judge him because
01:37:11
we don't know what he went through.
01:37:13
>> Yeah. That's one thing I've got from
01:37:15
this podcast.
01:37:16
>> Everyone's dealing with [ __ ] and you
01:37:17
don't know what someone else is going
01:37:19
through or has been through.
01:37:20
>> Yeah.
01:37:21
>> If your career ended tomorrow um Yeah.
01:37:24
would what regrets would you have if
01:37:26
any?
01:37:29
certain maybe tactical areas where I
01:37:32
could have won races that
01:37:36
uh I should have
01:37:38
>> really do races where you didn't like
01:37:40
reach your perceived potential still and
01:37:42
keep you awake at night?
01:37:44
>> No. Um we we we have to move on from
01:37:47
those cuz there's always another race
01:37:49
coming.
01:37:50
>> But uh yeah, we we learn from them.
01:37:54
I'd probably have to say
01:37:57
not signing big contracts
01:38:01
where I could have when I when I could
01:38:04
have.
01:38:05
>> When Essex started their climb again,
01:38:07
they wanted me as their like number one
01:38:09
guy. Um, back when they were just
01:38:12
starting to invest in this new shoe
01:38:14
technology and I was afraid at the time
01:38:17
because Nike already had like amazing
01:38:20
technology. Everybody else is playing
01:38:22
catch-up.
01:38:24
And
01:38:26
yeah, I ended up not signing and
01:38:28
resigning with Nike. And
01:38:32
now seeing how hard they have gone and
01:38:34
how good their shoe technology is, I I
01:38:38
wish I'd have been more of a part of
01:38:40
that. I was secretly giving a lot of
01:38:43
information to um some some people
01:38:48
involved with giving the information to
01:38:50
ASEX. I was like, "Hey man, that shoe
01:38:53
needs more like stability in the heel
01:38:57
and you know, I'm I'm pretty good with
01:38:59
that stuff." So, I was
01:39:01
>> trying to help out level the game up,
01:39:03
you know.
01:39:04
>> But you've you've devoted your um entire
01:39:06
adult life to the sport. Have have you
01:39:08
done okay out of it? Like if it all
01:39:09
ended today, like are you like you
01:39:11
financially are you secure?
01:39:14
>> Um
01:39:15
>> you got a place in Ken?
01:39:17
>> Well, yeah. I built my house. Um, I have
01:39:20
some guest houses next door that
01:39:22
occasionally have some elite um, foreign
01:39:25
athletes come through, but um,
01:39:29
financially, no. I'd probably I'd
01:39:31
probably have to work. My wife's killing
01:39:33
it at the moment, man. So, that's how we
01:39:35
surviving at the moment. like my um
01:39:40
yeah, my wife left uh her agent and that
01:39:46
allowed me to take over her cons um like
01:39:48
her coaching again and she just you know
01:39:52
to be part of such a big group you
01:39:54
cannot individualize the training.
01:39:56
>> So as soon as I indivi individualized
01:39:59
her training you know she took off again
01:40:02
and uh has become a superstar. She PBD
01:40:05
and it's 218 marathoner, fourth in Tokyo
01:40:09
since I took over her coaching. So
01:40:12
mightily proud of that.
01:40:14
>> I bet. Jeez, that's um 28 is amazing.
01:40:17
What What is
01:40:18
>> Yeah, she's uh currently with Essex and
01:40:22
um
01:40:22
>> does she have a world ranking?
01:40:24
>> Yeah, she does. Um I think she's around
01:40:28
top top 20 still. So
01:40:31
>> amazing. Yeah,
01:40:33
>> that's incredible. How do how do you
01:40:34
define success now? And has it changed
01:40:36
over the years?
01:40:39
>> Well, like I said, I'm incredibly proud
01:40:42
of what my wife's doing and um that I,
01:40:45
you know, I I have the coaching input
01:40:48
right back, you know, to everything she
01:40:49
does in the gym and everything, the
01:40:51
small things, but at the end of the day,
01:40:53
it's up to her to take to them and
01:40:55
really discipline herself. And
01:40:58
>> I find so much joy and pride in that.
01:41:01
for myself. I I really want to get back
01:41:04
out there and do something that I'm
01:41:05
proud of
01:41:07
>> and I
01:41:08
>> like in terms of running
01:41:09
>> in terms of my own running. I believe I
01:41:12
have so much more to give.
01:41:14
>> I'm just waiting for opportunities and
01:41:17
um
01:41:18
>> yeah, I I'd like to sign a deal again
01:41:21
that would keep me going for a couple
01:41:23
years, but
01:41:25
>> you know um who knows if it will happen
01:41:27
or not. I'm not saying
01:41:30
I'll be running for 5 years more. I'm
01:41:32
not saying I won't be.
01:41:34
>> Cuz how old are you now?
01:41:35
>> I'm uh 35.
01:41:36
>> Right. Okay. So that's still fairly
01:41:38
young on the the big scheme of marathon
01:41:40
running, isn't it? How old's Kip choke
01:41:41
is?
01:41:42
>> Especially especially in the marathon
01:41:44
circuit. So
01:41:44
>> yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Your you Yeah. Your
01:41:46
good marathon years could still
01:41:47
potentially be ahead of you.
01:41:49
>> Yeah. So you know, for most sports it's
01:41:51
uh considered pretty old, but in our
01:41:53
sport it's considered young. And um
01:41:56
>> yeah, I I'd love to set the national
01:41:58
record, take that one back from my own.
01:42:01
And um you know, have something really
01:42:03
to be proud of again?
01:42:06
>> Um and if you got told tomorrow you
01:42:09
could never run again, who who would you
01:42:11
be without it?
01:42:14
>> Like how would I be?
01:42:16
>> No. Who would you be? Like if if you're
01:42:17
not Jake Robertson, the runner. So I I
01:42:20
I'll still be Jake Robertson senior,
01:42:23
father to Jake Robertson Jr.
01:42:26
>> and you know devoted husband
01:42:31
um coach to my wife
01:42:33
>> as well. Um
01:42:36
yeah, I would, you know, I would because
01:42:40
I need to be in Kenya for my family, I
01:42:43
would be there for them. And uh, you
01:42:46
know, I'd be trying to network my way
01:42:48
into finding a role when we do move,
01:42:51
which we're trying to plan a move in
01:42:53
next couple years for my son's sake,
01:42:55
back to New Zealand.
01:42:57
It's uh it's not cheap here, man.
01:43:00
>> That's for sure. So yeah, looking to
01:43:04
find a good job that can allow me to be
01:43:06
passionate and give, you know, the work
01:43:08
ethic that I have and make a difference
01:43:10
somewhere.
01:43:13
>> Yeah.
01:43:13
>> Yeah. When when your wife and son are in
01:43:15
New Zealand, how how do they find it?
01:43:16
Like in terms of people staring at them
01:43:18
or any any sort of negativity or racism
01:43:20
or anything like that or are people
01:43:22
really kind and good?
01:43:23
>> Uh my son doesn't copy any of that. Um
01:43:26
my son is full on, man. He loves it cuz
01:43:29
there was so much for him to do here
01:43:30
like catching waves at the beach. Loved
01:43:33
it, you know. Um playgrounds and my
01:43:36
mother's kindergarten in Hamilton and
01:43:38
you know kindergarten here in Kenya is
01:43:41
way different. So so much for him to do
01:43:43
here and he just yeah he had a great
01:43:45
time.
01:43:46
>> My wife, she loves New Zealand too. like
01:43:50
you know New Zealand I don't think uh
01:43:52
Kiwis like appreciate the beaches that
01:43:55
they have like we every time we come
01:43:59
we're trying to hit the summertime
01:44:01
because we want to maximize the beach
01:44:03
>> you know I was a surfer pastime so I
01:44:06
still love to surf sometimes and
01:44:09
>> but uh
01:44:11
>> yeah like New Zealand's pretty beautiful
01:44:14
>> pretty good place
01:44:15
>> I love that
01:44:16
>> lots of family and friends here too So,
01:44:18
>> yeah.
01:44:20
>> Is Is there anything you think people
01:44:21
misunderstand about you?
01:44:23
>> I kind of feel like you and your brother
01:44:24
have always sort of been I don't know.
01:44:25
You've always had this sort of thing
01:44:26
where people have sort of misunderstood
01:44:28
you.
01:44:30
>> I don't know. Is that a fair thing to
01:44:31
say?
01:44:32
>> Yeah. Well,
01:44:34
I'll speak on my behalf like
01:44:37
>> Yeah. Sorry. I I just did that thing
01:44:38
where I loved you in together.
01:44:40
>> Yeah. Like I mean
01:44:43
I I can speak for all athletes actually
01:44:46
cuz I've just watched David Beckham.
01:44:48
I've just watched Aaron Rogers.
01:44:51
>> I just watched, you know, so many
01:44:53
sporting documentaries and a lot of us
01:44:56
come from like secluding ourselves at a
01:44:59
young age, working our asses off like
01:45:03
to get to the stage where we're
01:45:05
successful in sport.
01:45:07
>> And then you know what happens post
01:45:09
that? Some are more outgoing, some are
01:45:11
still, you know, still like that
01:45:14
silence. And I mean, the more the quiet
01:45:18
the quieter you are and the more
01:45:21
misunderstood you're going to be. I I
01:45:23
had a pretty good social media at one
01:45:25
stage. And you you always got to put out
01:45:28
the positives and um you always got to
01:45:30
put out what's real and what's not.
01:45:33
I mean people think they know you off
01:45:35
your social media but generally it's
01:45:39
it's not everything
01:45:40
>> it's curated
01:45:41
>> you know it it is a
01:45:44
>> a side of
01:45:46
>> showing the glamorous life and like it's
01:45:49
go time in the morning you know
01:45:52
>> all this but they don't see how much
01:45:54
work we put in how painful it is and
01:45:59
like there's I can guarantee there's Not
01:46:02
a single professional athlete in any
01:46:04
sport in the world that hasn't cried
01:46:06
because of pain emotionally or mentally
01:46:09
in the gym just when they're doing like
01:46:12
that one extra rep and after they've you
01:46:14
know come out of that emotion that
01:46:16
they're there that they they don't stop
01:46:18
and go back to the house.
01:46:21
>> They put it they continue to put it in
01:46:23
after they've had that meltdown.
01:46:25
>> They go even harder
01:46:28
than they were going before that. like
01:46:30
there's not a single one.
01:46:32
>> Yeah.
01:46:34
>> Yeah. I don't think we can adequately um
01:46:37
like describe the the sacrifices that
01:46:39
you've made for the sport. You know, we
01:46:42
I think we painted a bit of a picture of
01:46:43
what you know, Kenya was like when you
01:46:45
moved over there at a very very young
01:46:46
age, but um yeah, the the sacrifice and
01:46:49
the work that you've put in is massive.
01:46:51
What What do you think um what would you
01:46:54
say your best and worst habits are?
01:46:58
Uh
01:47:00
my worst habit might be like also in
01:47:04
some ways my best habit.
01:47:05
>> That's often the way
01:47:07
>> I'm kind of like a yes guy. I always try
01:47:09
and please everybody and as time goes I
01:47:13
try my best to not always
01:47:17
please everybody because it means that I
01:47:19
can't keep up and I can't and I end up
01:47:22
making more mistakes. M
01:47:25
>> um so yeah, I'm I'm always there for
01:47:28
everybody trying to be and um
01:47:31
yeah,
01:47:33
>> my my best habit is just like work
01:47:35
ethic, man.
01:47:37
>> If I set my mind to something, uh I'm
01:47:40
working like
01:47:42
in every single way possible
01:47:44
>> to do the best I can.
01:47:46
>> Yeah, that's um one massive takeaway
01:47:49
I've got from um all these podcasts that
01:47:51
I've done. Like hard work is the only
01:47:52
cheat code there is. You know, natural
01:47:55
talent will get you so far, but um
01:47:57
everyone that's had any sort of success
01:47:58
in their life, it's come through hard
01:48:00
work.
01:48:01
>> Yeah, absolutely. And uh I mean the
01:48:04
athletes mind state, we're not normal
01:48:06
people, man. Like we made ourselves not
01:48:08
normal.
01:48:10
>> Like at the end of the day, it's sport
01:48:12
is sport, but it feels like life to us.
01:48:14
M
01:48:15
>> so when we fail we we walk away with
01:48:18
this feeling like we're going to die or
01:48:22
the world is over and you usually as you
01:48:26
know you become more professional um and
01:48:29
years go by that you're in the sport you
01:48:33
you recover quicker from it.
01:48:35
>> You don't have that time to be upset. So
01:48:37
you give yourself that little grief and
01:48:40
grieving time and you you bounce back
01:48:42
and you're like, I'm going to use this
01:48:43
as positive and work harder,
01:48:46
>> you know. So
01:48:48
>> yeah, you you've been really open and um
01:48:51
vulnerable here today. Are you are you
01:48:54
like this in in your private life? Like
01:48:56
are you are you good at like opening up
01:48:57
and talking to friends or family about
01:49:00
[ __ ] that's going on or do you tend to
01:49:01
sort of bottle things up?
01:49:04
>> Oh man, I I I bottle things up pretty
01:49:06
bad. pretty bad until I break and then
01:49:10
>> yeah, my wife sees a lot of it and you
01:49:12
know um
01:49:13
>> So you good at sharing stuff or she can
01:49:15
just tell that you've got the the weight
01:49:16
of the world on your shoulders?
01:49:19
>> I'm not I'm not good at sharing stuff or
01:49:22
showing really. I uh I bottle it up and
01:49:27
I like I'll be breaking in other ways.
01:49:31
So it's like even my wife can't catch
01:49:33
why I'm starting to snap. like um but
01:49:38
yeah the underlining issues and stuff it
01:49:41
always comes out eventually
01:49:44
>> and you know every time afterwards I
01:49:46
seem to keep going. I'm still here man.
01:49:50
So
01:49:50
>> well you're um yeah you're you're a Kiwi
01:49:52
male. It's one thing we're very good at
01:49:54
bottling things up, not talking about
01:49:56
things until we get on a podcast.
01:49:58
>> Yeah.
01:49:59
>> It's rough. Have you um Yeah. I know I
01:50:02
asked you before about um your
01:50:04
counseling or therapy and you haven't
01:50:05
had any but yeah what about sports even
01:50:07
a sports psychologist or anything like
01:50:08
that?
01:50:10
>> No. Um
01:50:12
>> maybe talking to someone would be a
01:50:14
>> Yeah. So Athletics New Zealand don't
01:50:16
help me. Um they haven't helped me since
01:50:20
um since Boston Marathon. Which year was
01:50:22
that that I ran Boston Marathon? I think
01:50:24
it was 2021.
01:50:28
Yeah, 2021.
01:50:30
of course because my son was born in the
01:50:32
last like month before it.
01:50:36
So yeah, I haven't had any support um
01:50:38
that would allow me access to that. I
01:50:40
reached out to them at one point saying,
01:50:42
"Hey man, I'm not doing too good. Like
01:50:45
>> Nike's dropped me. I have no money. Um
01:50:48
Athletics New Zealand is not supporting
01:50:50
me anymore like anyway." Um, but you
01:50:54
know, they didn't
01:50:57
suggest anything or uh try and help.
01:51:01
They just left me to the wind. And you
01:51:03
know, that's kind of why I have
01:51:06
maybe this feeling towards them.
01:51:08
>> You can't just leave athletes like,
01:51:12
you know, whether they see you useful or
01:51:15
not to them anymore. They just leave you
01:51:17
like that. So,
01:51:19
>> yeah. More of a duty of care.
01:51:21
>> Yeah. I mean,
01:51:23
>> even for postc career, man, like
01:51:26
>> there should be they should be trying to
01:51:28
help.
01:51:29
>> And I know they have that there, but
01:51:32
>> to help people, but uh for some of us,
01:51:35
they they just shut down
01:51:38
before our career is over. And uh yeah,
01:51:41
I don't think I don't think it's fair
01:51:45
>> for me anyway.
01:51:48
>> How how are you today? Is today a happy
01:51:50
day? Is today good? Are you Are you good
01:51:52
today?
01:51:53
>> I was excited to meet you, man.
01:51:55
>> Really? Like
01:51:56
>> Oh, likewise.
01:51:58
>> Like I Yeah, we've had chats and like I
01:52:01
said, I feel like I know you from all
01:52:03
the time we've just spent like messaging
01:52:05
each other or seeing you on the podcast,
01:52:07
listening to you on the radio.
01:52:10
>> And uh yeah, I was excited to do this. I
01:52:13
didn't know where it was going to go,
01:52:14
which direction. I knew it would drag up
01:52:16
some pretty bad
01:52:18
>> feelings I have have had. But, uh, I'm
01:52:22
pretty pretty pumped about how, you
01:52:25
know, I had the opportunity to do this
01:52:27
still.
01:52:28
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's been good. It's
01:52:29
been a really enjoyable chat. Is Is
01:52:31
there anything that we've we've
01:52:32
overlooked? Any any stone that we uh
01:52:35
haven't unturned?
01:52:38
Oh, there's probably heaps. Save it for
01:52:39
the book.
01:52:40
>> Yeah. I mean, future future more than uh
01:52:44
past, you know. Um, past always digs up
01:52:48
negativity and um,
01:52:51
>> going forward I'm I'm more positive.
01:52:54
>> Yeah. Okay. Future goals like where do
01:52:56
you see yourself at say 40 or 50?
01:52:59
>> Hopefully I'm back here with uh my wife
01:53:02
and son and you know my wife is still
01:53:06
striving sport. I probably if I haven't
01:53:10
signed a nice deal myself, then I'll
01:53:12
hopefully have a career that I'm
01:53:14
passionate about. And um yeah, for my
01:53:19
son, everyone's like, "Oh, he's going to
01:53:20
be so fast." I'm like, "Man,
01:53:23
fast can be in any sport if he wants to
01:53:25
take to sport."
01:53:28
>> Yeah.
01:53:28
>> He does have good genetics, though.
01:53:30
>> Yeah. should he decide to become a
01:53:32
runner. Not that we want to push him in
01:53:33
that direction.
01:53:34
>> You know what I keep telling people is
01:53:36
any other sport than running.
01:53:38
>> Any other sport than running because I
01:53:39
know how hard this sport is.
01:53:42
>> And the payoff isn't like other sports.
01:53:44
So, you know, if if he takes to
01:53:47
something, I'm going to do everything in
01:53:48
my power to help him succeed at what he
01:53:52
wants to do.
01:53:53
>> And it's not just sport, man. It's like
01:53:55
everything,
01:53:56
>> you know? I reckon a gentle nudge
01:53:58
towards say golf or yaching.
01:54:02
They seem quite lucrative.
01:54:03
>> Golf is a good one. Tennis is a good
01:54:05
one. Hey man, I got a long list.
01:54:07
>> Yeah, a Formula 1 perhaps.
01:54:10
>> How's it going there?
01:54:11
>> Um, okay. What three words that family
01:54:14
and friends would use to describe you?
01:54:17
>> Gee, man, you better ask them.
01:54:20
>> Oh, no. Okay. I um
01:54:21
>> people would put crazy down probably.
01:54:23
Crazy.
01:54:23
>> No. Okay. Well, let let's let's let's
01:54:25
reframe this, but it just it feels like
01:54:26
a bit of a bleak way of reframing it.
01:54:28
But I had this guy on the podcast called
01:54:29
Doo Allen who's like a multisport
01:54:30
athlete and then um won coast to coast a
01:54:33
few times and he's um been part of team
01:54:36
New Zealand that won the Americas Cup
01:54:37
and he was doing an adventure race with
01:54:38
Richie Mccor and in the middle of the
01:54:40
night Richie Mccor started playing a
01:54:42
game with his teammates and he said,
01:54:43
"Okay, I want everyone to come up with
01:54:45
three words um that you'd like family
01:54:47
and friends to use at your funeral." um
01:54:50
which seems like a bit of a bleak way of
01:54:51
framing it but um I asked this question
01:54:54
to a lot of guests because it's I
01:54:55
figured out it's actually a good way if
01:54:58
you can come up with the answer that you
01:54:59
want then you can sort of reverse
01:55:00
engineer it and start living that way so
01:55:02
that it's likely to be the words that
01:55:04
people will use when that time comes.
01:55:06
>> Yes.
01:55:07
>> So what would it be for you?
01:55:08
>> So everything comes back to
01:55:12
this is the athletes mindset. everything
01:55:14
straight away starts coming back to me
01:55:16
about you know who who or my profession
01:55:21
>> you know um rather than who I am but uh
01:55:25
yeah um I am hardworking I am loving and
01:55:29
caring you know I am I'm so many things
01:55:33
outside the sport
01:55:35
>> more than an athlete you know um
01:55:38
but yeah I'm I'm street smart I'm wise
01:55:42
like, you know, I might not be school
01:55:45
smart, but definitely I made good
01:55:47
decisions. You know,
01:55:49
>> uh I've never had the kind of money that
01:55:52
other athletes have had, but
01:55:54
>> I've invested all my money into my
01:55:57
business and stuff like my house,
01:56:00
everything. And
01:56:03
>> I could have gone on vacations and, you
01:56:06
know, had parties and all that with it.
01:56:08
So street wise or you know wise whatever
01:56:12
you want to call it.
01:56:14
>> Oh come on if if it's your funeral and
01:56:16
Maggie's there and your mum's there.
01:56:17
They're not saying street wise.
01:56:19
>> Yeah for sure.
01:56:19
>> What do they say? What is it? Sensitive
01:56:21
kind.
01:56:22
>> No he
01:56:22
>> you are sensitive. Eh
01:56:24
>> they they would be saying how I was a
01:56:26
fun dad. For sure. Um, you know, my son
01:56:30
calls me papa, but with the adventures
01:56:33
we go on, you know, I need to put myself
01:56:35
in his shoes and think, what does he
01:56:37
want to do today,
01:56:40
>> you know, and um yeah, I just I I'm a
01:56:45
loving father, man.
01:56:47
>> I'm uh I'm a good husband. I'll leave
01:56:50
that to her to say a great husband.
01:56:54
>> But uh Yeah.
01:56:56
>> Yeah. Are you proud of yourself?
01:57:00
>> Yeah. Uh I am. Um that's you know
01:57:05
it's tough to say man because uh
01:57:09
us professional athletes um our our
01:57:13
minds our mindset is always that we're
01:57:17
not perfect
01:57:18
>> and um that's what keeps us going. It
01:57:22
keeps us striving for more. And um
01:57:26
>> yeah, so at the end of the day, most of
01:57:28
us are going to say, "Yeah, I'm proud of
01:57:30
myself." But
01:57:32
>> we Yeah. We're far from perfect.
01:57:36
>> And that's what keeps us going.
01:57:37
>> Yeah. Well, nobody's perfect. Eh, I
01:57:39
suppose all we can try and do is be
01:57:41
better today than what we were
01:57:42
yesterday.
01:57:43
>> Yeah. except uh in a lot of things in
01:57:47
life, you know, it it's harder to do.
01:57:51
It's not just a one day turnaround, you
01:57:53
know.
01:57:54
>> Yeah. Some days it might be two steps
01:57:55
backwards and it's never linear these
01:57:58
things, but
01:57:59
>> long-term picture, you know.
01:58:00
>> Yeah. But if you wake up each day and
01:58:02
try and do better than the day before, I
01:58:03
think you're sort of on the right track.
01:58:05
>> Last one. What What about legacy? How
01:58:06
would you like to be remembered
01:58:08
>> in the sport and as a person?
01:58:12
>> Yeah. So someone who you know put it all
01:58:15
on the line and uh was successful
01:58:20
you know I don't have that Olympic gold
01:58:22
medal I don't have and I may never get
01:58:25
that but uh I've had success to a
01:58:27
certain degree and
01:58:30
you know I am I am having success in
01:58:32
life now with you know a great family. I
01:58:37
want to be remembered for being that guy
01:58:41
who was, you know, a teenager who didn't
01:58:43
have things going his own way.
01:58:46
And I mean, it's the same story with a
01:58:48
lot of sportsmen.
01:58:50
>> You know, they they went through
01:58:51
hardships and they came out better off
01:58:53
than they were
01:58:54
>> because they put it all on the line.
01:58:56
It's not it's not easy to get into
01:58:57
professional sport
01:58:59
>> and then to have any success at any
01:59:01
level.
01:59:03
So, I I am successful. I want to be
01:59:06
more. But um yeah, remembered.
01:59:10
I want to be remembered as a great
01:59:12
father, man. It's a big thing for me.
01:59:15
And
01:59:16
>> you know, me and me and my wife, we have
01:59:18
we have we have a great relationship.
01:59:22
>> M
01:59:22
>> Yeah. So, even post my my son going to
01:59:27
college or wherever he goes, you know,
01:59:29
me and my wife, we're going to always
01:59:33
be together. I don't see us folding like
01:59:37
um other relationships have around me in
01:59:40
my life.
01:59:41
>> So yeah,
01:59:42
>> it's nice seeing um that smile and that
01:59:45
uh twinkle in your eye when you talk
01:59:47
about your wife and your son. It's
01:59:48
really cool. I think this is a good way
01:59:49
to end it.
01:59:50
>> Yeah.
01:59:51
>> Yeah.
01:59:52
>> Yeah. No, man. My my boy, like I said,
01:59:54
he saved me so many times, man. I I
01:59:56
could never
01:59:58
I never follow through with any crazy
02:00:00
thoughts I'd had. But um
02:00:02
>> just cuz he's you know he's there.
02:00:04
>> Yeah.
02:00:05
>> I suppose to repay him all you can do is
02:00:07
you be the the best version of yourself
02:00:09
and be the best dad you can be which it
02:00:11
sounds like you're doing.
02:00:13
>> Yeah. I I try you know again we always
02:00:16
have doubts you know especially as men.
02:00:18
Um, they test your patience, you know,
02:00:22
definitely they push your buttons, but
02:00:24
yeah, it's uh we just do the best we
02:00:27
can, right? We learn, we learn as we go.
02:00:30
>> Yeah.
02:00:32
>> Well, we've been going for 2 hours and
02:00:33
27 minutes, which is um you could have
02:00:35
just about run a marathon in this time.
02:00:38
>> Yeah, I've I've actually run a few in
02:00:40
210, so yeah.
02:00:42
>> Yeah. Hey Jake Robertson, it's nice to
02:00:44
finally meet you and connect and thank
02:00:46
you so much for being on the podcast
02:00:47
today.
02:00:49
>> Pleasure. Pleasure, man. Pleasure.
