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Scott Donaldson, welcome to my podcast.
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>> Thank you. Great to be here,
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>> man. It's It's great to have you here.
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Like, um, for anyone that's watching
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this, they'll they'll see you. You're
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just like an an an unassuming looking
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Kiwi dude and an Adidash shirt. And
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people that meet you in day-to-day life
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may not know this, but um, you you've
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done some crazy stuff.
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>> Yeah. Yeah. Based on on normal people's
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perspectives. Yeah. done done some out
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of the box stuff.
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>> Yeah. So, in 2018, you made history when
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you became the first person to kayak
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solo from Australia to New Zealand, uh,
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which is 2,200 km or should be.
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>> Um, took you 62 days and this was your
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third attempt at doing it.
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>> Yeah, 61 days, 10 hours, but uh,
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>> sorry for ramping up.
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Um, yeah, it's it's historical, but if
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you do know my previous history in life,
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then it's not kind of that outside the
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box. So, people say, "How long did you
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train for this for?" Well, lifetime
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really. Yeah.
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>> Yeah. Previous history, what do you
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mean? What what led you to do this?
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>> Uh, philosophically, I was a coach of
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many people for many things uh over a
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lot of years. Uh and and I coached some
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people to do outside the box stuff like
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uh double iron man. Um I coached the
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oldest woman to swim the [ __ ] straight,
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you know, things that were just outside
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the box and I wanted to just ramp it up.
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So, one night when I was pedaling with
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my flatty on um Lacroa
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and we were out there and it was dark
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and it was a good 30 knot wind and a one
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m chop and we were just having fun and
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it just occurred to me that I wanted to
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up the game and say right I know these
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principles work because we've been
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teaching them and I just wanted to say
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right how do we how do we up the game
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here and that was uh that's what jumped
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into my appeal box. Yeah.
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Some people would probably say it's like
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a death wash.
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>> Yeah. Yeah.
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>> Yeah. Have you heard that?
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>> Uh yeah, I have. I mean, given the
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history of the Tasmin, obviously um one
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paddler has has passed doing that.
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That wasn't
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it it wasn't too relative in terms of
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risk because risk is uh a long
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conversation actually. Risk is an
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opinion. Um
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Well, it is especially these days. Uh
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there there's a lot of ways to look at
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that. Uh one way to look at that will be
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if you've got the skill level to to do
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it, then it's relevant. Because if I
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jumped into a F1 car and said, "Okay,
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you know, I'm a good driver. I drive
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every day. I can do this. No way. The
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risk profile is ridiculous." I' I'd end
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up in the fence, especially if I tried
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to go fast. Um whereas, you know, Mr.
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Lawson, if he's doing it, it's just
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another day at work.
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>> Mhm.
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>> He's got the skill set for it and that's
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what he does. So, for him to go two or
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300k an hour, that's that's normal. Um,
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and it's it applies in some ways to to
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what I did. I'm happy out there. I'm
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comfortable out there. I've got the
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skill set out there and I'm making
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decisions that I'm comfortable with. the
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worst case in terms of media and how you
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look at it. Most people have absolutely
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no idea what it's like to be in the
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tasine and nor should they nor do they
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have the skill set. It's like, okay, if
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you can't swim, then don't go and get in
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the beach at Piha. Don't do it. You
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haven't got the skill set. But if
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you're, you know, if you're Danny Loa,
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go ahead.
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>> You know, you've got the skills.
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>> Yeah. But there's that saying that the
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ocean doesn't know you're an expert.
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>> Correct. Correct. And there's, you know,
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it's
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>> variables.
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>> It's an environment and it's an
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environment. You have to respect the
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ocean's rules. It's it's not uh it's not
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health and safety. It's the ocean's
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rules. And if you get them wrong, you
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get consequences.
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>> Um, and sometimes they're delivered. I
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mean, you could jump in that kayak and
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start traveling across the Tasman given
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enough food, etc., etc., and you've got
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a probably a 20% maybe a 30% chance of
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of making it.
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>> Um,
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>> that's not great odds.
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>> No, it's not. But that's that's given
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you've got no C skills and no practice,
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you've still got a chance of making it.
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You know what I mean?
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um as opposed at the other end of the
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spectrum uh I've got a lot of chance
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making it because of the decisions I
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make. So for us um Nigel Lecott who was
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my base manager we're um we're of the
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same opinion when it regarding health
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and safety. That's why we called it um
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on the first trip. Uh basically the call
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was in his his uh
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purview for for the whole trip. If he
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wanted to call it, he called it. He
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always had the last say on that. And
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that's because safety is a calculation.
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Safety's got nothing to do with how you
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feel. And a lot of people get emotional.
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Even even if you comment on
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the fact that it's it's a death wish.
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That's because there's there's that's
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probably comes from a place of emotion.
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It doesn't come from a place of
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experience. And emotions have no place
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when it comes to you know all health and
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safety is based on calculations. That's
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where it comes from. It's history. Okay,
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this has happened. This has happened.
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Then that's what we do. It's all a
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calculation.
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>> So, um, you your wife Sarah, so this
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2018 attempt where you did it and made
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history, um, at the time you're married
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and you've got your son, Zach, who's
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eight at the time?
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>> Yep.
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>> So, what does she think in terms of the
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chance of you making it? Like 90%
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chance, 95% chance?
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>> Uh, no. She's confident. and and 2018 is
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is uh a culmination of a of a long trip,
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you know. Um 2014 was the steep learning
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curve because it's never been done
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before. Um and and in retrospect, I
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think we did everything right. There was
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there was nothing I could have done
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planning wise to predict what was going
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to happen other than you know things are
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going to happen that you haven't
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predicted.
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>> That's the nature of the environment.
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>> Expect the unexpected.
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>> Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And be flexible.
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>> My god, there Yeah, there's so much to
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talk about. Um, yeah. So, so 2013, that
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was your first attempt.
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>> Uh, yeah, they say I've attempted it
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three times. Um,
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>> you seem dark about this.
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>> It's a media thing. I've attempted it
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twice.
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>> If you're training for a marathon and
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you put your shoes on, you run out the
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driveway and go, "Shit, I broke a lace."
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Go back in. Do you put that in your
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training training diary? No,
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>> exactly. So, I got out there a day and
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my satphone got wet in a bag that I
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didn't think was going to get wet. I
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bought it in order not to get wet. Um,
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and it just got wet. So, the satphone,
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which is your number one device, I did
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have backup. I had two redundancies,
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three redundancies of or one one option
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and two redundancies of everything was
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the the rule of thumb for the trip.
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>> But it was too early to to lose that
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kind of fundamental equipment. So, okay.
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Turning around, going back.
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>> Why don't you just go again the next day
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or the next week?
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>> Uh, weather.
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>> Oh, okay.
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>> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's complex,
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>> right? Okay. So, it's a real precise
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window that you're looking at.
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>> Yeah. Okay. Probably probably should
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start by explaining what the Tasman is.
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It's it's actually harder than it
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sounds. Uh way harder. Uh the Tasman is
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a pretty special piece of water. They've
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been crossing larger bodies of water for
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years, like the Atlantic, for example,
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that was pedled a long, long time ago.
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There's a reason for that. It exists
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with trade winds. So, you jump in a
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tractor, tire tube, way you go. You'll
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get there eventually. Um, the Tasman's
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not like that. It's because you've got a
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u
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you've got a
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a driving weather force across the top
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of the Tasman and across the bottom of
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the Tasman going in opposite directions
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that way. And in the Tasine, you got a
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whole lot of circles. So, you know, you
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think river, there's a whole lot of
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edies. Um, this isn't even a R river.
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It's a whole lot of eddies. The biggest,
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strongest Eddie, which can be up to six
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knots, is the East Australian current.
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You know, Nemo was actually, it was
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real. There is an East Australian
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current there, and it's quite strong,
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and it runs down the side of Aussie, but
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it's not like it's a river running down
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the side of Aussie. It's a whole lot of
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really big wagon wheels that if you
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know, if you're in six knots, you can't
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pedal to that. My speed's three roughly
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um on a daily basis. So, if I'm in a six
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knot current, I'm not I'm not I'm going
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to go three knots backwards if I'm
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pedaling into it.
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>> And then that also affects your angles,
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your vectors. Um you think, oh, okay, if
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I'm running at 90° to this current, I
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can go this speed. That's not actually
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the case. You know, you have to offset
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by 5 or 10 degrees to actually pick up
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speed. It's um that's the first thing
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you do when you're building a boat, but
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I guess we'll get back to that in a sec.
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Um, so the tasine is a bunch of circles
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which makes that body of water tricky
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which is why it hasn't been done till
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now.
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>> You know, otherwise it would
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distance-wise 2,200 that's that's not so
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much. Um, and the the Atlantic's much
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much longer, but it it's a far easier
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paddle. Even from uh this guy did um
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mainland US to Hawaii, that's a lot
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longer as well. But again, it's a it's a
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weather driven paddle. You're going to
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get there eventually.
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>> Mhm. Um, so I I would having not done
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that pedal, but I would view it as
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easier conditions wise and um and
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power-wise. So the power calculation
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when you go into the TASM, that's that's
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kind of step one. That's the tricky
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part. Uh, okay. First of all, how long
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it's going to take? Don't know. Um, and
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so how much food do I take? Don't know.
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Because how big am I going to build the
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boat? Don't know. I can build a bus, but
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a bus is not going to get into six knots
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very effectively.
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>> So, that's the first thing you got to do
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is figure out, okay, this is my vessel.
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Um, what does it do in a straight line
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into a headwind? What does it do into 10
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knots? What does it do into 20 knots?
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Okay, right, Neil, let's offset that by
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45 degrees. And you end up with a wagon
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wheel of the boat's ability. That's what
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sailors do in their calculations.
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They've got, right? How much sail area
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have I got up? How fast am I going to
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go? Etc., etc. So, you've got to do
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those same calculations. It's amazing
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how many people get into this and don't
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start there. It's like, okay, what does
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what does your boat do? Uh, I don't
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know. Um, it's it's maths. It's just And
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you've got to do it to start with. Okay,
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now I've got a basic idea of how much
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speed I've got and what conditions I can
00:11:00
combat when. Now, let's put those
00:11:02
conditions into windy.com and say,
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"Right, okay. How how can I progress
00:11:06
here?" um your weather's only going to
00:11:09
be predictable for three days guaranteed
00:11:12
and you know the forecasts go out longer
00:11:15
than that but they're really not
00:11:16
accurate. So uh you need to know what
00:11:20
you're going to come up against which is
00:11:21
a whole lot of circles. You're going to
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go backwards. It's nothing you can avoid
00:11:26
out there because you cannot predict
00:11:28
what's coming and you can't do anything
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about it. So there's sailing across the
00:11:32
tasine is different to paddling because
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it's sailing. Okay, there's a big
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weather system coming. Maybe I can
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offset that by, you know, 100 mile.
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>> You can't do that in the kayak. So
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that's the first challenge to the Tasine
00:11:44
is how big is my boat? How fast is it
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going to go? And then how much food and
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gear am I going to need to put in it? So
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what size boat do we build?
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>> Yeah. And and it's tiny. Um I've got a
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photo of it here. Um, this is the double
00:12:02
Dutch. Like it's a it's a kayak. It's
00:12:04
it's a it's a spec specially built
00:12:07
kayak, but it's just a kayak like Lisa
00:12:09
Carrington has at the Olympics.
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>> The the Yeah. Well, yeah, it's it's a
00:12:12
double kayak, but yes.
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>> Yeah. The hull is actually double kayak
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length,
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>> 6.5.
00:12:18
>> So, you can sleep in it, but it's um not
00:12:20
particularly roomy. We'll we'll get into
00:12:21
that too soon, but um Sure.
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>> Yeah. So, so, uh, 2013 was that false
00:12:26
start.
00:12:28
Like going back from that. Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:30
When, when, how long was it from first
00:12:32
having the idea of say of um, kayaking
00:12:36
from Australia to New Zealand?
00:12:37
>> Four years.
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>> Four years.
00:12:38
>> That Olympic cycle. Yeah.
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>> Right.
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>> Yeah.
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>> Four years of like like like deep
00:12:46
thought and
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>> Oh, absolutely.
00:12:48
what I've just explained was like the
00:12:50
starting point and you know we could
00:12:51
just talk about that for the next two or
00:12:53
three hours cuz there is a lot of detail
00:12:55
to be had there you know what do we
00:12:56
build the boat out of how robust does it
00:12:59
really need to be you know based on on
00:13:02
history clearly it's come apart for a
00:13:04
few people um how do I want to approach
00:13:06
this the same as this so you know go
00:13:08
talk to people who's done what talk to
00:13:10
sailors you know get as much information
00:13:12
as you can understanding that they're
00:13:14
still not doing what you're trying to
00:13:15
achieve
00:13:17
>> but No one had done this before though.
00:13:19
>> No, exactly.
00:13:20
>> So, yeah, that that would be my big
00:13:22
thing. Like, how how could you be
00:13:24
completely confident that the boat's not
00:13:25
going to you be hit by a freak wave and
00:13:27
snap in half?
00:13:28
>> Yeah. Um, yeah,
00:13:32
you you need to be you need to be. And
00:13:35
again, it's amazing how many guys don't.
00:13:36
I mean, there's a guy tried this in
00:13:39
between my attempts and he uh he built
00:13:44
his own boat
00:13:46
and uh lasted not 48 hours and he was
00:13:50
pulled out of the water and he didn't
00:13:51
know why his boat sunk.
00:13:53
>> Now, to me, that's a lack of
00:13:55
preparation. Um I could have tried to
00:13:56
build my boat in the garage as well and
00:13:58
a lot of guys do this because it's way
00:14:00
cheaper. It's vastly cheaper. Um but I
00:14:04
I'm like, "Okay, well, that's exactly
00:14:06
the consideration you need to start
00:14:08
with. I need a boat that I can rely on
00:14:11
and is safe and is not going to sink."
00:14:13
Um, so, you know, people have had that
00:14:16
idea before, you know, Titanic.
00:14:18
>> Um, so I went to, you know, who's the
00:14:22
best in the country that I can get to do
00:14:24
this or or who's who's got the skills
00:14:26
and is up there. You know, I I could
00:14:28
have put a bit of, you know, carbon or
00:14:30
or glass on over a mold and and had a
00:14:33
crack at it and I think I would have
00:14:35
done a reasonable job, but reasonable is
00:14:36
not good enough. You want the best.
00:14:38
>> So, you know, I went to Barracuda Kayaks
00:14:40
and talked to Gordon who's got a lot of
00:14:43
uh well, he built the Tasman, sorry, the
00:14:46
Atlantic boats, the rowing boats
00:14:47
initially um when they first had to do
00:14:50
those. So, he's he's clearly got the
00:14:53
skills in terms of production. Uh, and
00:14:56
he's also got a kayaking history. So,
00:14:59
it's like, okay, well, this guy's as
00:15:00
close as I can get to as good as I can
00:15:02
get. Um, so let's start there and let's
00:15:04
start working with that.
00:15:06
>> Yeah. And and you've still got the boat
00:15:07
Double Dutch. It's in your garage at
00:15:09
home.
00:15:09
>> Yeah. Yeah. Second second iteration.
00:15:11
Yes.
00:15:12
>> Still in good nick.
00:15:13
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. I' I' I'd put it through
00:15:16
a hell of a lot of testing, but I'd use
00:15:18
it again.
00:15:19
>> Um, it's it's a few years on now. Um, so
00:15:22
>> yeah. How how do you feel when you see
00:15:23
it now?
00:15:25
Uh,
00:15:25
>> is it like h happy memories or
00:15:27
>> Oh, 100%. Like there's there's not one
00:15:29
minute of this that I didn't love to
00:15:31
bits if you said here's all the money in
00:15:34
the world,
00:15:35
you know, go and do it again. Sure.
00:15:39
>> I I got to call [ __ ] happy place.
00:15:41
>> There's We're going to get into this,
00:15:43
but um there was a point in this uh
00:15:45
successful crossing where
00:15:46
>> you spent six days locked up in that
00:15:49
tiny little cabin, which is like a
00:15:50
coffin. Yep. Um maybe it's um is that
00:15:54
type three fund like you look back now
00:15:55
with the benefit of years of high sudden
00:15:57
you think oh that was actually all right
00:15:58
at the time that must have been
00:15:59
miserable.
00:16:00
>> It was only miserable because of the
00:16:02
circumstances. I I'll get to that.
00:16:04
>> Oh because you're being blown backwards.
00:16:06
>> No no no. So um that's kind of a longer
00:16:10
story. So in the first attempt
00:16:12
>> Yeah. I'm literally,
00:16:15
this is a longer story I guess, but the
00:16:18
short story is I was literally going
00:16:20
backwards in the middle of the tasine
00:16:23
and Sarah's mom was ill and had been ill
00:16:26
for a long time. Um, she was quite close
00:16:29
with the mom and um
00:16:32
I was at Lord How and I was talking to
00:16:35
her again about, you know, how is she,
00:16:37
where's she at and it wasn't looking
00:16:38
great and like we' we'd blow the budget.
00:16:41
It's just like I can't afford to fly to
00:16:42
New Zealand. I said just go, you know,
00:16:44
we'll we'll sort it out later. Um, so we
00:16:47
had that discussion and I'm like, I'll
00:16:50
I'll can this. I'll come home now. And
00:16:52
she's like, no, no, she's still she's
00:16:55
still ticking along. She's in the
00:16:57
hospital, but she's still ticking along.
00:16:59
No, you go. Um, little did I know, one
00:17:02
day later, she passed.
00:17:04
But she told me a few days after that
00:17:08
and that happened to be
00:17:10
uh I can't remember how long it was
00:17:12
going backwards. I think it was three
00:17:13
days going backwards and it just I found
00:17:16
that out and then I spent three days
00:17:18
going backwards. Now that that took some
00:17:21
yeah that took some pounding and that
00:17:23
was just because of the emotional
00:17:24
situation. I mean the backwards part you
00:17:28
expectations you know they're the mother
00:17:30
of all you know you've got to you've got
00:17:33
to be an expert at dismissing
00:17:35
expectations when you're not dictating
00:17:38
anything
00:17:39
>> you know
00:17:41
>> yeah I can't imagine the feeling of help
00:17:43
helplessness at that point
00:17:44
>> that that was fundamentally it you're
00:17:47
just completely helpless I mean that's
00:17:50
the only time I was upset and it wasn't
00:17:52
for safety reasons or I That's what I
00:17:55
signed up for. The the big stuff is fun
00:17:57
and and you know, as as you've sort of
00:18:00
suggested, I've got a bit of a history
00:18:01
in sadistic type stuff. So, you know,
00:18:04
I'm I'm type three fun all the way.
00:18:06
>> Yeah.
00:18:07
>> So, what are you feeling at that point?
00:18:08
This the feeling of helplessness. Um are
00:18:10
you feeling like guilty that you know
00:18:12
you're you're out in the middle of the
00:18:14
ocean bobbing around when you should be
00:18:15
at home with the
00:18:17
>> Well, I've I've put together a a very
00:18:19
extensive psychological toolbox for
00:18:21
this. So, that's that's what I I didn't
00:18:23
A lot of people don't understand that
00:18:25
there is effective tools for all of this
00:18:28
except when you put that kind of weight
00:18:30
on it.
00:18:31
>> Um, but I've still got to survive. So,
00:18:33
you can't you just can't lose the plot
00:18:36
out there. Soon as you lose the plot,
00:18:38
that's when your risk profile goes up.
00:18:40
So, that was one of my main directives
00:18:42
from the start. Yeah. So, I had to
00:18:44
decide where am I going to go? So,
00:18:45
Justin and James had had a pretty
00:18:47
successful trip. So I thought, okay,
00:18:49
they're the guys in terms of tracking
00:18:51
that I want to replicate. Seems like a
00:18:55
nice balance.
00:18:56
>> See, so you leave from Coffs Harour and
00:18:58
you're not sure where you're going to
00:18:59
land. Just somewhere on the uh west
00:19:02
coast.
00:19:02
>> Yeah,
00:19:02
>> like could be Raglin. Ended up being
00:19:04
Tatanaki. Y
00:19:06
>> um but yeah, anywhere in that sort of
00:19:07
vicinity.
00:19:08
>> Yeah, it's it's a bit of an ugly coast
00:19:09
to try to land on. Um, I mean, New
00:19:13
Plymouth is always the the aim, the
00:19:15
goal. It's closest and and the water
00:19:18
currents tend to take you there. So, the
00:19:19
currents by Australia really strong, you
00:19:22
know, up to six knots. Um, as you go
00:19:24
across the Tasine,
00:19:26
the wagon wheels get smaller, the
00:19:28
currents get way more fickle. So, by the
00:19:31
time you get to New Zealand, there's
00:19:32
really nothing over two knots. Still
00:19:35
significant, but way more fickle in the
00:19:38
middle. And that's why you're going to
00:19:40
go backwards because they're just not
00:19:41
predictable. There's not enough data to
00:19:42
predict.
00:19:43
>> Yeah.
00:19:44
>> What they're doing.
00:19:45
>> So, um, 2014, uh, so we'll call this
00:19:48
your first attempt cuz the one in 2013,
00:19:50
you've, um, you're catching on.
00:19:51
>> You've clarified that.
00:19:54
>> You're dirty about that. I can tell.
00:19:56
>> Well, it is like you wouldn't put that
00:19:58
out the driveway in in your training
00:20:00
diary. So,
00:20:02
>> full start. I can I can tell it pisses
00:20:03
you off and rightfully so. So, um, 2014,
00:20:06
you're almost finished. You you're how
00:20:07
close to land? Uh I don't know. 70 80.
00:20:10
>> Yeah. What what happened? That's
00:20:12
devastating.
00:20:13
>> Um Yeah. Yeah. So the the first one was
00:20:17
an adventure. The second one was a race.
00:20:19
>> Um
00:20:20
>> the first one isn't the one we're
00:20:21
talking about where you almost finished.
00:20:22
>> Yeah. Yeah. That was an adventure
00:20:24
because you don't know anything. You
00:20:25
don't know a thing. You really don't.
00:20:27
Even though you've done all your as much
00:20:29
planning as you can. So like rule of
00:20:32
thumb, three things. If I've I've got
00:20:34
three pedals, right? Um, you know,
00:20:36
you've got two contingencies on
00:20:39
everything, on your communications, on
00:20:41
your paddles, on everything. So, that
00:20:43
was
00:20:43
>> Where are the Sorry, sorry to interrupt.
00:20:45
I'm just looking at the photo. Where are
00:20:46
the uh where are the other two paddles
00:20:47
>> inside the top? They're strapped to the
00:20:50
top,
00:20:50
>> right?
00:20:51
>> There's There's pictures on the internet
00:20:52
of me inside the cabin that
00:20:55
>> that'll show you that probably.
00:20:57
>> Okay.
00:20:58
>> Um,
00:20:59
so what happened on the first ones? The
00:21:01
first one was an adventure and that was
00:21:04
if that was the first trip in that
00:21:06
photo. There was a bit of intrepidation
00:21:08
there because it's like what's going to
00:21:10
happen? All I'd done is pedal out the
00:21:11
driveway and back and that was a bit
00:21:13
stressful in that uh on the way back the
00:21:17
current's going so fast down the coast.
00:21:20
I'm trying to make it into Port McQuary
00:21:23
in the dark. never been there
00:21:26
off GPS and I know it's a reasonably
00:21:28
notorious entry to the um to the marina
00:21:33
there. So, and I've never seen and I
00:21:36
know the coastline's rocky. So when you
00:21:38
can't see anything and you're
00:21:39
approaching a a country that you haven't
00:21:42
seen and so I had to on the way back in
00:21:44
I had to paddle my ass off for I don't
00:21:46
know at least 12 hours just to stop
00:21:49
getting swept down to okay now you've
00:21:51
got to pedal to Sydney.
00:21:54
>> Um so I did that and then I came in and
00:21:57
it was an outgoing current on the on the
00:22:00
inlet. So I'm sitting there and there's
00:22:03
it's it's quite a decent uh hall through
00:22:06
there. I'm paddling into about three
00:22:09
knots and my boat only goes three knots.
00:22:11
So, I'm doing I'm It took me I think an
00:22:14
hour and a half to get 200 mters
00:22:18
to get in there and then get out of the
00:22:19
current. So, I was paddling my ass off
00:22:22
just to get it right because if you get
00:22:23
it wrong, you're in the rocks.
00:22:26
>> Your boat's getting, you know,
00:22:27
everything you put your life into is
00:22:28
getting damaged or um so that was that
00:22:31
was kind of fun. And uh so the second
00:22:34
trip
00:22:35
uh obviously I changed the dry bag that
00:22:38
that was supposed to contain the
00:22:39
satphone. So um you know I'd made a
00:22:43
couple of changes but I didn't have that
00:22:44
much experience. So but that was an
00:22:46
adventure I was really looking forward
00:22:47
to because it was exactly like no one's
00:22:50
done this.
00:22:51
>> That just excited the hell out of me
00:22:52
because I was prepared.
00:22:54
>> Uh and in retrospect I was more I was
00:22:57
actually prepared more prepared than
00:22:59
most of the guys I see doing this.
00:23:02
um you know because I did have good
00:23:04
knowledge on what my boat could do, what
00:23:06
could and you know so I I was happy to
00:23:09
go out there and and and get into those
00:23:11
conditions. Um
00:23:13
>> exciting.
00:23:14
>> But after after almost finishing and and
00:23:16
not completing it. Um yeah, how's your
00:23:19
mental health after that?
00:23:21
>> Great. It was the right call. Um you
00:23:25
know,
00:23:25
>> you were so close though.
00:23:27
>> Yeah. In a lot of ways, I I would think
00:23:30
this is from someone that's never done
00:23:31
anything like this in their life. Um
00:23:33
it'd be better to bail after 10 days,
00:23:36
you know, rather than get that far, so
00:23:38
close to the finish.
00:23:39
>> Well, yes and no. Um like I was I was
00:23:42
super stoked with the first trip
00:23:44
because, you know, these things are
00:23:45
about the journey and all that and yes,
00:23:47
they are. I mean, I want to win, but um
00:23:50
they are about the journey and
00:23:52
particularly in something like that, it
00:23:54
was all about the journey and I
00:23:55
literally got everything. So, I got off
00:23:57
the boat going, "No, I'm done." Um,
00:24:00
because I I got absolutely everything
00:24:03
from the trip except the finish. And
00:24:06
that the finish wasn't really the point
00:24:07
to be honest. Uh, I I genuinely did did
00:24:11
uh have the experience. Um, and and that
00:24:15
was again, I enjoyed every single
00:24:17
minute. I mean, that was the things that
00:24:19
went wrong. That's kind of the dealing
00:24:21
with it's the cool part, you know,
00:24:23
handling yourself under pressure and
00:24:24
just life's wonderfully simple out
00:24:26
there. You know, it's just so pure.
00:24:28
Something goes wrong, the decisions to
00:24:30
me are very straightforward and very
00:24:31
easy. Um that's that's because it's
00:24:34
experience-based. Um so what what
00:24:36
happened in the first trip?
00:24:39
It it went pretty well. Uh and then
00:24:43
uh the yeah, on the first trip it was
00:24:46
battery. So, uh, I wasn't planning to
00:24:48
call into Lord How, but it was there as
00:24:50
a redundancy. And then one of the
00:24:54
$6,000 batteries that I bought, lithium,
00:24:58
um, dropped a cell. And one of the hard
00:25:01
calculations, again, maths, is this boat
00:25:04
is not big enough to have enough solar
00:25:06
to provide you with enough power for the
00:25:08
trip. So it was always like I went to um
00:25:12
um the Brisbane University and their
00:25:15
solar car team and um you know I went
00:25:19
through all the solar options with those
00:25:21
guys and they were pretty much
00:25:22
worldleaning
00:25:24
and you're always going to have a
00:25:26
decaying um summary on your your solar.
00:25:31
So it was only going to last so long.
00:25:33
And um when I dropped a I dropped it was
00:25:37
a newish battery and it was supposed to
00:25:40
be you know the best
00:25:42
>> and dropped a cell. It's just I didn't
00:25:44
know it dropped a cell. I just knew it
00:25:46
wasn't working properly because I didn't
00:25:47
have the um
00:25:51
uh the options to figure it out. But um
00:25:53
so okay safety let's make the call.
00:25:57
Let's go into Lord How. So I went into
00:25:59
Lord How um and then got that had to get
00:26:02
another battery from Aussie. So that
00:26:04
took a few days. Um then got back on the
00:26:06
road um which delayed us a bit but it
00:26:08
also allowed me to restock the food
00:26:11
supply. So left that with uh
00:26:16
you know with a B in the bonnet and said
00:26:18
let's go. I'm I'm into this. And um yeah
00:26:21
it was really good. And then I was
00:26:23
making great progress. Yes I got slapped
00:26:25
back a bit but you have to expect that.
00:26:27
Uh, and and it was it was pretty cool
00:26:30
and all my safety options were working
00:26:32
really well, you know, eg when do you
00:26:34
get out and start paddling and when do
00:26:35
you not. Um, and then I got up one
00:26:39
morning and my rudders hanging off by
00:26:41
one pin. So there's three stainless
00:26:43
pins. The bottom pin and the top pin had
00:26:46
been ripped off. I'm like, how does that
00:26:48
happen? So they were
00:26:51
six mill six mill pins. So pretty solid.
00:26:54
But the rudder was designed to break if
00:26:58
I hit something solid. So if you go, you
00:27:00
know, everyone's like, "Oh, you'll hit a
00:27:01
container." I never s saw a floating
00:27:02
container. Then you're highly unlikely
00:27:04
to. But um if you run into something
00:27:07
solid for some reason,
00:27:09
you don't want the rudder to pull the
00:27:11
ass off your boat.
00:27:12
>> So you design it so it doesn't pull the
00:27:14
ass off your boat. So I've got these
00:27:16
three pins that are technically if you
00:27:17
hit something hard, it should break. And
00:27:20
then you replace the pins and replace it
00:27:22
with your spare rudder. and you know,
00:27:24
three spears of everything.
00:27:26
>> Um, and I got up and this it had just
00:27:28
been rotated off. So, it was it was a
00:27:32
big fish that flapped its gummies around
00:27:35
and rotated it. So, probably a shark cuz
00:27:38
they explore, but I didn't feel it,
00:27:41
which is unusual. Uh, which also means
00:27:43
it was kind of soft. So, it was it was
00:27:45
just rotated off. So, uh, I'm in
00:27:48
declining weather. So, I've got about a
00:27:50
three three and a half meter swell. Um,
00:27:53
I've got one pin flapping around like
00:27:56
this with the rudder system on it. I've
00:27:59
got to get in. I don't have a choice. I
00:28:01
have to get in. I can't wait. It's going
00:28:02
to get worse. And if that pin pulls the
00:28:05
ass out of the boat, you know, I'm
00:28:07
getting water in there. I'm not going to
00:28:09
sink completely cuz it's
00:28:10
compartmentalized. But, you know, it's
00:28:12
I'm going to sink partially. So, in I
00:28:15
got uh and this is getting quite far
00:28:19
south. So, one of my main concerns is
00:28:21
hypothermia. Um which I've had a little
00:28:24
bit of practice at dealing with. So, you
00:28:26
know, I'm straight in there. I'm like,
00:28:27
right, I need a plan on how to get. So,
00:28:29
I get in there, I do an assessment.
00:28:32
Um then I get back in the boat, start
00:28:34
thinking, what tools do I need? You
00:28:36
know, and this is all straightforward
00:28:38
when you're sitting here doing this. But
00:28:39
when you're in a 3 m swell and you're in
00:28:43
I don't know what it was probably
00:28:45
14 13 degree water uh and you're
00:28:49
carrying no body fat and you've got to
00:28:51
figure out a plan on how to fix this
00:28:54
rudder. So I've got spare pins and I get
00:28:56
around the back and the pins have
00:28:57
actually sheared off. So I can't just
00:29:01
pull it out and put a pin new pin in.
00:29:04
Uh, and then I need the tools to to get
00:29:06
the other pin out, which is bending and
00:29:09
throwing around. So, I've got to get the
00:29:10
rudder strings off first. So, I've got,
00:29:12
you know, three or four tools. So,
00:29:14
you're in a three and a half meter
00:29:15
swell. You're in the boat with some
00:29:16
tools, and then you've got to be out of
00:29:17
the boat with some tools. So, normally
00:29:19
I'm going to put a string around my
00:29:20
wrist and make sure I can't drop the
00:29:23
tools. I don't have time. I have to get
00:29:26
this bolt out before it really does some
00:29:30
damage. So, you know, um I've I've got
00:29:33
this tool and I've got a backup, but
00:29:35
it's a really primitive option. So, you
00:29:38
know, I'm out there in a three and a
00:29:40
half me swell boats going like this
00:29:42
trying to get the the um the rudder off
00:29:46
and uh succeeded. Uh and then I also,
00:29:49
you know, I've got the watch on. I'm
00:29:51
measuring exactly how long it is before
00:29:53
I'm start starting to get symptoms of
00:29:56
hypothermia. So my first trip was about
00:29:58
22 minutes in the water and I'm like,
00:30:00
"Okay, no, I can't be that long." And
00:30:02
then you you're cold, so you've got to
00:30:04
go and recover, but you've actually got
00:30:05
to get straight back in to fix the the
00:30:07
immediate problem straight away. So
00:30:10
calculate it. Probably got about 18
00:30:12
minutes. I certainly haven't got 22
00:30:14
minutes in me. So let's get back in and
00:30:16
and get that rudder off. So got that
00:30:17
rudder off and then the whole process
00:30:19
started. Right. Okay. The danger's gone.
00:30:22
Um now I've now I've got a check in the
00:30:25
back compartment. And I've got to do all
00:30:27
this before dark and then I've got to
00:30:30
radio it in and say, "Right, get the
00:30:32
experts on it and and let's let's see if
00:30:35
we can uh get some mental power on this.
00:30:38
See if we can fix it."
00:30:40
>> So the experts on um Yeah. So they can
00:30:42
talk you through it.
00:30:44
>> Yeah. What What ideas have you got for
00:30:45
the solutions for this? So I give it to
00:30:47
Nigel and then the the academic process
00:30:49
starts and I mean Nigel's about the best
00:30:54
guy that you can have on this. I mean he
00:30:57
was he he was police SARS
00:31:01
um and he's he's very military in his
00:31:04
thinking.
00:31:05
>> Um he was armed offenders uh leader in
00:31:08
in for many years. So he's he's used to
00:31:12
dealing with life and death situations
00:31:13
and I think that's important
00:31:15
>> for for that role.
00:31:16
>> Yeah. You you you talk about this stuff
00:31:18
like very um like matterofactly and
00:31:20
almost you know kind of blasze but it's
00:31:23
like um you know 22 minutes in the water
00:31:25
then you go and warm up like you there's
00:31:27
no hot shower or anything like there's
00:31:29
um and you say call in experts like no
00:31:31
one's no one's coming out in the
00:31:33
speedboat to get you. You know you were
00:31:35
so alone and isolated.
00:31:37
>> Yeah 100%. And but that's what that's
00:31:39
what you signed up for. If if you're not
00:31:41
prepared for that, then it's amazing how
00:31:43
many people do sign up for it and are
00:31:45
not prepared for that. It's it it blows
00:31:47
my mind. But
00:31:48
>> well, if you're doing it if you're doing
00:31:49
it for um the cloud of the glory, like
00:31:51
there's plenty of easier ways to do
00:31:52
that, right?
00:31:53
>> Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Absolutely.
00:31:55
>> So So after um yeah 2014 where you're
00:31:58
almost finished and you don't um Yeah.
00:32:01
What's what's the thought process or the
00:32:03
discussion that goes on before you
00:32:05
decide to do it again in 2018?
00:32:06
>> Yeah. Oh, so there's actually a lot more
00:32:08
to the rest of this story. Sorry.
00:32:09
>> Um, so I'm without a rudder. Bottom line
00:32:11
is I'm without a rudder
00:32:13
>> and there's no solution. We can't put a
00:32:15
rudder on the back. Um, because I've got
00:32:17
nowhere to anchor it to. Um, so it's
00:32:21
like got no rudder. And and so okay,
00:32:24
sleep on it. Uh, got enough food. I'm
00:32:26
healthy. I'm safe. I'm fine. Um, so you
00:32:30
know, Nigel starts exploring the options
00:32:32
of of getting a pickup. Any craft in the
00:32:34
area? you know, how long is it going to
00:32:36
take? Um,
00:32:38
and then I'm in the cabin. And in the
00:32:42
cabin is physically harder than out
00:32:44
paddling. Like, you know, first couple
00:32:47
hours is fine, but if you're in I would
00:32:49
rather be paddling for 10 hours than in
00:32:50
the cabin for 10 hours. It's not a
00:32:52
comfortable place to be. Um,
00:32:55
>> looks like a coffin.
00:32:56
>> Yeah. And every time you're in there,
00:32:59
it's generally because the weather's
00:33:00
[ __ ] Because the weather's not [ __ ]
00:33:01
you're out pedaling. So if you're in
00:33:03
there, it's like being in a washing
00:33:04
machine. So you there was a lot of
00:33:08
habits and routines that you got into.
00:33:09
It's all about the detail. So if I'm
00:33:12
lying in there and I'm lying on a you
00:33:14
know little sleep mat, foam sleep mat
00:33:17
thing and if you're in a anything really
00:33:21
in a decent chop, the boat's going like
00:33:23
this all the time. So, if you're lying
00:33:24
there for three hours and you're going
00:33:27
like that and it's sitting your elbow's
00:33:30
sitting on rubber, you're going to get
00:33:32
an abrasion there within three hours on
00:33:34
your elbow.
00:33:35
>> So, you have to readjust your position.
00:33:38
Um, so on the first trip, I had a a
00:33:40
shark skin top. Uh, I just cut the arms
00:33:43
off and I put the shark skin arms on
00:33:46
because it was too hot in the you don't
00:33:48
want to have a top on because it's
00:33:49
actually quite warm inside. Uh, and but
00:33:51
it was too hot. But I just cut them off.
00:33:53
So, I had to do that. But even if you do
00:33:55
that, you know, there's going to be
00:33:56
something in your shoulder that rubs.
00:33:58
And as soon as you get an abrasion,
00:34:00
you can't fix it because you're wet just
00:34:03
about all the time.
00:34:05
>> So, yeah, it's I didn't want to be in
00:34:07
the cabin. So, I got out of the cabin
00:34:08
for a little bit exercise cuz I needed
00:34:10
to just stretch out. And I'm like, I've
00:34:12
got no rudder. So, I started edging the
00:34:14
boat, which is where you lean your hips
00:34:16
and you put a couple of stronger paddles
00:34:18
in on this side. and I end up making
00:34:22
about
00:34:24
7 or 8K.
00:34:26
And then I went back in, slept on it
00:34:28
again cuz there's no rush. There's no
00:34:29
hurry. Everything's safe. And so we
00:34:31
were, you know, that was our protocol
00:34:33
really. We just there is no hurry. And
00:34:35
I'm healthy. I'm good. I actually just
00:34:37
made some progress. And I said to Nigel,
00:34:39
I'm I'm going to have a crack at it
00:34:40
tomorrow. And I made about 12ks the next
00:34:44
day.
00:34:45
And I said, just put a hold on that. and
00:34:49
uh let's give it a crack. So I'm
00:34:51
paddling around in Tasine with no
00:34:52
rudder, which is ridiculous.
00:34:55
And so I ended up teaching myself how to
00:34:58
pedal again, which and that's probably
00:35:00
one of the most exciting things
00:35:03
personally uh from from my point of view
00:35:06
that that I learned to do. I learned how
00:35:07
to pedal again. So I made progress more
00:35:10
and more each day. And then you know
00:35:11
when the wind's blowing from 15, it
00:35:13
hardly ever blows 15. It's usually more.
00:35:16
when it's blowing 15 knots from your
00:35:17
right, you're edging all day and really
00:35:21
leaning on one arm
00:35:23
um to just try and keep straight. And
00:35:25
then it gets to the point because as
00:35:26
soon as you've got something in that
00:35:28
quarter ahead of you, you've got nothing
00:35:31
that you can do about it. You have to be
00:35:32
on the on the anchor. So, you can't
00:35:34
really pedal on those days. So, it was
00:35:36
just an adjustment of the mass equation
00:35:37
that I had originally on your vectors.
00:35:40
And I can do this. Look, I've still got
00:35:43
food. Let's go. I'm just going to keep
00:35:44
paddling and I'll see if I can get
00:35:46
closer because I'm kind of very close in
00:35:48
the middle. And so Nigel starts working
00:35:50
on a whole lot of other contingencies.
00:35:52
And I uh just kept paddling and kept
00:35:54
paddling and then I got to the point
00:35:56
where I was one day and these are the
00:35:59
days you dream about. There's 30 knots
00:36:01
behind me on a 5 m swell. And so I'm
00:36:04
sitting there and I mean when the white
00:36:05
water comes across you put your arms up
00:36:07
to hold the paddle out of it and the
00:36:09
white water is so heavy it just presses
00:36:11
you into the kayak. And um I started
00:36:14
surfing these waves and that's that's
00:36:18
kind of fun at the best of times. Um but
00:36:20
I had no rudder and it's so really easy
00:36:23
to broach and I figured you're operating
00:36:27
off your eyes and so I had to change my
00:36:28
sensory input. So I started closing my
00:36:30
eyes a lot and just using my ears. So,
00:36:32
it's cold. So, I just put my beanie up
00:36:34
and I started feeling the wind on my
00:36:36
ears. And as soon as I felt the wind on
00:36:37
my ear, I leaned and compensated. And
00:36:41
that meant I could surf. If I waited
00:36:44
till my eyes saw what I needed to do, I
00:36:46
I'd broke. I couldn't do it. So, I ended
00:36:48
up being able to surf 5 m waves with no
00:36:51
rudder with, you know, a 400 kg boat.
00:36:54
And um I've never had so much fun in my
00:36:57
life. It was so good. And I never got it
00:36:59
wrong.
00:36:59
>> How long did that last for? How do I
00:37:02
last? What the wind?
00:37:03
>> Yeah. No, just just riding these waves
00:37:05
in the middle of the tasine.
00:37:06
>> Oh, it only lasts a day or two at the
00:37:09
most because the tailwind because of the
00:37:11
circular
00:37:12
>> you only ever like you dream for those
00:37:14
days, but honestly I felt robbed both
00:37:16
times because it would have been less
00:37:18
than way less than 10%
00:37:21
>> of the time. You know, those are the
00:37:22
ones you live for. I had one at the end
00:37:24
of the the last trip
00:37:25
>> and I made, you know, I made great
00:37:27
progress
00:37:29
really close to the mountain. That was a
00:37:31
whole lot of fun. But I had a rudder.
00:37:33
But yeah, learning a new skill in the
00:37:35
middle of the tasine, just adapting your
00:37:37
whole
00:37:39
>> way of doing things uh was was exciting.
00:37:42
That was that was really great for me.
00:37:46
>> Yeah. Uh and then so yeah, anyway, I I
00:37:49
was late because I wasn't making as much
00:37:50
progress as I should. Um so I was going
00:37:54
to run out of food. I was always going
00:37:56
to run. So Nigel ended up contacting uh
00:38:01
John Fenel
00:38:03
who's a rescue pilot of fairly
00:38:07
fairly uh well known in New Zealand and
00:38:10
they started dropping drums into Lake
00:38:12
Talpo from a great height.
00:38:15
So they figured it out and they they
00:38:17
figured out how far can we fly out and
00:38:19
so they flew out and did a food drop.
00:38:22
Um, the first food drop was as far as I
00:38:24
could fly basically. Uh, and I think
00:38:27
they dropped two barrels. The first one
00:38:29
did explode, so I lost that one, but um,
00:38:32
I was able to get it. But, you know, I'm
00:38:33
sitting there in 25 knots of wind, which
00:38:35
is not a lot for the Tasine, but I've
00:38:37
got no rudder and I've got to paddle
00:38:39
around in circles to get to this this
00:38:41
little parachute thing. Uh, and then
00:38:44
then it's like Christmas. You're getting
00:38:45
into this barrel and there's just all
00:38:47
kinds of food and it's great. And you
00:38:49
know, like there's um Nigel Nigel's,
00:38:53
this is the level of detail that we go
00:38:55
to. So Nigel realized there's going to
00:38:57
be pressure on impact. So um he buys a
00:39:01
peanut slab,
00:39:03
he pin pricks the wrapper, deflates it,
00:39:08
and then tapes it because the pressure
00:39:10
of the impact would explode the wrapper
00:39:13
and explode all the food. So he he
00:39:14
literally had done that. He he'd thought
00:39:17
about it and because of the practice he
00:39:19
he'd pin prick the wrapper, got all the
00:39:21
air out of it and then put a bit of
00:39:22
electrical tape on it.
00:39:23
>> Wow.
00:39:24
>> What he hadn't thought about was that my
00:39:25
skin was so soft that when I went to
00:39:27
peel the electrical tape, it would cut
00:39:29
me,
00:39:32
>> right?
00:39:32
>> Yeah. Like it could literally go through
00:39:34
my fingernails,
00:39:36
>> so yeah, the the level
00:39:38
>> Did you have a knife or a blade or
00:39:39
whatever? I did. I did. And I So, I had
00:39:41
to open the peanut slab, but like, you
00:39:43
know, I'm I'm starving literally and
00:39:46
these peanut slabs and stuff turn up and
00:39:48
I'm like, and I want to get into this
00:39:50
peanut slab. I don't want, you know, I
00:39:52
don't want to wait. So, then I I figured
00:39:55
out I had to get my, you know, knife out
00:39:57
and and actually open it up with a
00:39:59
knife.
00:40:00
>> So, yeah, the the level of detail on
00:40:02
skin integrity is probably the hardest
00:40:03
thing on this whole trip.
00:40:05
So yeah, I I got in there and then I got
00:40:08
to 70ks off and then I was running out
00:40:12
of power. I was running out of
00:40:14
everything and I ended up in a six-day
00:40:19
blocking storm um which the media got a
00:40:22
hold of. It was taking roofs off in
00:40:23
Oakuckland and but it was it was just
00:40:26
kind of normal to me. But I couldn't
00:40:28
make progress. So, I was just on anchor
00:40:30
for six days in a blocking storm. And
00:40:33
then it got to the point it's like, hey,
00:40:35
I can't produce any more power. Um, I'm
00:40:38
I'm getting low on food, but I probably
00:40:40
can survive another couple days, but I'm
00:40:42
getting low on power. If someone comes
00:40:44
out here, they're not going to see me.
00:40:45
I'm done. Um, and I was only 70ks off.
00:40:49
And there are there are big big craft
00:40:51
out there. Um, and if I go somewhere,
00:40:55
I'm go I can't recharge my satphone for
00:40:57
tomorrow. I can't talk to you. I'm out
00:41:00
of power. The only thing I can let you
00:41:02
know about is the E-B.
00:41:04
>> Uh which is what you pull when you're in
00:41:06
a in a panic.
00:41:08
>> So that's a calculation. No, that's too
00:41:10
far. We can do something about it. We
00:41:13
did something about it. And I never had
00:41:15
any issue with any of that decision.
00:41:16
That would to me that was just
00:41:18
straightforward. I'd do it again 100
00:41:20
times out of 100.
00:41:21
>> Like common sense.
00:41:22
>> No calculation. Safety is a calculation.
00:41:25
It's like, okay, you know, if if there's
00:41:27
a problem that you haven't foreseen,
00:41:30
like Lord How, you know, I didn't have
00:41:32
to stop at Lord How at all. I could have
00:41:34
just kept going because I can manually
00:41:36
pump water. I could have survived. Um,
00:41:39
but I, you know, I wanted to do it
00:41:41
non-stop, but that's a rule you've
00:41:43
placed on yourself. And that's something
00:41:45
I learned from Andrew. Don't place rules
00:41:46
on yourself.
00:41:47
>> Safety is calculated based on what you
00:41:49
need to do and what is available. So, at
00:41:52
the end, the risk profile went up. The
00:41:54
danger was high. I was going to run out
00:41:56
of comms, which is the biggest danger. I
00:41:59
couldn't tell them whether I'm in the
00:42:01
water or not. Um, so all I could do is
00:42:04
pull my earb. And it's like, okay, no,
00:42:06
we can do something about that. So, we
00:42:07
will.
00:42:08
>> It's a calculation. It's It's got
00:42:10
nothing to do with how you feel or where
00:42:12
you are or what you're trying to
00:42:13
achieve.
00:42:14
>> It's just a calculation.
00:42:17
>> Yeah. By the way, Lord, how that you've
00:42:19
mentioned a few times. So that's um it's
00:42:20
an island in Australia waters. I think
00:42:22
if you fly there from Sydney it's like a
00:42:23
couple of hours flight, right?
00:42:25
>> Yeah. It's um 600ks off off Port McQuary
00:42:28
>> probably. So um
00:42:31
yeah, how like how are we not how are we
00:42:33
not depressed after 2014
00:42:35
after going through all that and making
00:42:37
it so close?
00:42:38
>> I I got the journey. The journey was
00:42:40
fantastic, you know. Well, you know, if
00:42:43
you go if you go for a marathon and then
00:42:45
absolutely blow a hammy at at um 41ks,
00:42:50
>> you did all that training, you know, you
00:42:52
you got from here and you got up to
00:42:53
there. Sure, you'd probably have another
00:42:55
crack at a marathon. It's more
00:42:56
accessible.
00:42:57
>> Uh this is less accessible, but um
00:43:00
>> but you don't get the finishing medal.
00:43:02
>> No, you don't get the finishing medal,
00:43:03
but it was never about that. And there
00:43:05
was never going to be one.
00:43:06
>> It's not that kind of project, you know.
00:43:08
Um, but again, I wouldn't change that
00:43:11
safety part of the part of the journey
00:43:14
was putting together a safety protocol
00:43:16
that was effective.
00:43:18
>> Um, and it was effective and um, and you
00:43:20
know, we're both pretty proud of how we
00:43:22
operate like that. Um, and that's what
00:43:25
does make it safe. That's why Sarah has
00:43:27
confidence in what we're doing is
00:43:29
because,
00:43:30
>> you know, we treat it like a military
00:43:31
operation and that's that's the best way
00:43:34
to go about it. Um,
00:43:35
>> yes. So, so after 2014, it's another
00:43:37
four years before you have the the
00:43:39
successful attempt.
00:43:40
>> Um,
00:43:42
>> you you've explained the safety stuff
00:43:43
really well. Um, was it hard getting
00:43:46
Sarah over the line to do it again
00:43:47
though, just in terms of like the um
00:43:49
>> I don't know. You're putting your lives
00:43:50
on hold in a way, aren't you? Like
00:43:52
financially as a couple or a family, you
00:43:54
can't progress forward.
00:43:55
>> And that's that's probably the main main
00:43:57
thing. So, that's when we said because
00:43:59
we thought we'll do this. we we'll take
00:44:01
the box and then we we might it's a good
00:44:03
time to go overseas and just have a bit
00:44:05
of a you know live overseas for a bit.
00:44:07
We were thinking maybe Europe. Um
00:44:11
but then it was probably six months
00:44:13
passed and and there was like
00:44:14
financially there's no way we want to do
00:44:16
this again. This is just crazy. Um, and
00:44:20
then uh I came across a couple of people
00:44:23
who were interested in chipping in and
00:44:25
they were like, "Oh, why don't you do
00:44:27
and I'm like, actually, I really do want
00:44:29
to do it." You know, it's like playing
00:44:31
the game of golf, you know? Oh, I can do
00:44:33
it better than that. But I had all this
00:44:35
information. I had this massive body of
00:44:37
information and I'm like, I really want
00:44:40
to do it now. So, it's like doing your
00:44:41
first Iron Man. You don't know what
00:44:43
you're in for, but once you've done one,
00:44:45
it's like, oh yeah, I can do way better
00:44:46
than that. M
00:44:48
>> um you know your just your
00:44:51
um comprehension of what the capacity is
00:44:54
for you to go better and this is kind of
00:44:56
more exciting than Iron Man because the
00:44:58
amount of detail in it was was like I
00:45:00
say even the safety plan wasn't boring.
00:45:01
It was it was I think reasonably world
00:45:05
leading and exciting to do and exciting
00:45:08
to put together and get it right. And
00:45:09
I'm like, okay. So, for example, uh we
00:45:12
now don't have three P we have three
00:45:14
pins in the back of the boat, but we
00:45:15
also have three new holes drilled, you
00:45:18
know. So, if it snaps off again, you've
00:45:21
got other holes you can use. Um so, just
00:45:24
those those learnings uh I wanted to put
00:45:27
them in and uh we so we had a little bit
00:45:29
little bit of momentum. Don't get me
00:45:31
wrong, it's not like someone said, "Oh,
00:45:33
you can
00:45:33
>> it was certainly going to be a" and so
00:45:35
we thought, "Right, let's kill the
00:45:37
birds. let's go and spend our oe time in
00:45:39
Aussie which was great moved to coughs
00:45:43
um
00:45:44
not necessarily cuz we were planning to
00:45:46
start from coughs for the paddle we
00:45:48
moved to coughs because I looked at a
00:45:49
map and said right okay we love the salt
00:45:52
water because we come from Rooua which
00:45:54
is paradise but there's no salt water so
00:45:56
we've got salt water we got the waves we
00:45:58
got what we want but I need the
00:45:59
mountains as well because I want to be
00:46:01
able to ride my bike so where do the
00:46:03
mountains get close to the water coughs
00:46:05
so um you know you and go for a swim and
00:46:08
jump on your mountain bike and go
00:46:09
straight up the hills. It's like that's
00:46:10
my idea of paradise. Um so that's kind
00:46:14
of kind of why we went there and um and
00:46:18
also met some lovely people that were
00:46:20
keen and helpful and um you know made
00:46:22
some great friends. So we had a paddle
00:46:25
aside, we had an amazing time in coughs,
00:46:27
which was what we went there for.
00:46:29
>> And you know, the young fell got to
00:46:31
experience some,
00:46:32
>> you know, but a slightly different
00:46:34
culture.
00:46:35
>> Um, and but you know, in terms of the
00:46:38
boat and the the paddle, it was all it
00:46:40
was all there and and a lot handier.
00:46:43
>> Yeah.
00:46:44
>> So yeah. So when you take off in 2018
00:46:46
from Coughs, so um your wife Sarah is
00:46:48
there, your son Zach who's like eight at
00:46:50
the time.
00:46:51
>> Yep. Um
00:46:53
yeah, eight's a good age. Like um they
00:46:55
you kids can understand what's going on.
00:46:57
So how do you guys communicate it to him
00:46:59
what you're doing? Like dad's just going
00:47:01
for a paddle. He'll see you in a couple
00:47:02
of months or
00:47:03
>> Yeah. Well, he kind of grew up with that
00:47:04
because you know, dad's just going for a
00:47:06
ride. See you 5 hours later, you know.
00:47:09
Um so it wasn't really much out of uh
00:47:13
out of the realms. And
00:47:15
he's
00:47:17
I mean he's a product of the lifestyle
00:47:19
as well in that we went to coughs. So
00:47:21
I've got a I don't know three four year
00:47:23
old when we go to coughs and he's here's
00:47:27
your water safety thing. So I walk out
00:47:29
to the beach holding his hand and
00:47:32
there's a you know half meter swell
00:47:34
coming in and I let let his hand go and
00:47:36
I let him get wiped out. You're standing
00:47:38
there to pick him up when you need to
00:47:39
but you let him get hit by the wave. So
00:47:42
cuz he's going to be spending his life
00:47:43
in the wave, you know, he's got to
00:47:45
develop that respect for it. And so you
00:47:47
just let him get bold and and they've
00:47:50
got to I know I have taught his natural
00:47:52
affinity to you know be able to hold his
00:47:54
breath and he he'd learned to swim
00:47:56
through me. So, um, you know, just
00:47:59
here's the wave, belt. Boof. And, you
00:48:02
know, at at age eight, we were we were I
00:48:05
was body surfing 3 m swells with him on
00:48:08
my back, you know, and I had 100%
00:48:10
confidence he could get wiped out by a 3
00:48:12
m wave and pop up and be happy on the
00:48:15
other side. So, yeah, it was absolutely
00:48:18
nothing out of the ordinary for him, you
00:48:19
know. He's like, "Oh, it's the sea.
00:48:20
That's that's it's what we do."
00:48:23
So, he was he was um communicated the
00:48:25
message that there was absolutely no
00:48:27
doubt that dad was going to make it at
00:48:28
the other end.
00:48:30
>> Yeah, it's it's a big thing and there's
00:48:32
some risk, but you can't talk to an
00:48:33
8-year-old about risk.
00:48:34
>> You can't even talk to a 15-year-old
00:48:36
about risk. If
00:48:37
>> if you if the 2018 attempt wasn't
00:48:40
successful, would you have gone again?
00:48:42
>> Uh, highly unlikely.
00:48:44
>> Yeah, they would.
00:48:44
>> Just just financially.
00:48:46
>> Simple as that. Like, I really did enjoy
00:48:50
every minute. I enjoyed the big stuff.
00:48:52
That's what I signed up for. Um, and you
00:48:55
know, the the the polarization of of the
00:48:59
activity out there, like very few,
00:49:02
probably two nights, maybe three in both
00:49:06
trips. You couldn't tell um the water
00:49:10
from the sky. It was just that flat and
00:49:13
that, you know, there were stars
00:49:15
everywhere. And then you start paddling
00:49:17
and there's phosphoresence in the water.
00:49:19
is just stunning. And then 48 hours
00:49:22
later, you're in a 5 m swell with a
00:49:25
6-second interval that's beating the
00:49:27
absolute crap out of you. It's just it's
00:49:30
just beautifully polar.
00:49:33
>> You were talking about this um this um
00:49:34
crunchy stuff with a real sort of glint
00:49:36
in your eye, eh?
00:49:37
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
00:49:38
>> You love it. Okay. Um Yeah. So, so what
00:49:42
about the training before you get even
00:49:43
even in the water? Because you're
00:49:44
paddling for say up to 16 hours a day,
00:49:47
right?
00:49:47
>> Yep. So what does training look like
00:49:49
both physically and mentally?
00:49:52
>> Oh well that's a really good question
00:49:54
because I you know especially when it
00:49:56
comes to endurance we we quite often
00:49:58
train our psychology
00:50:00
every time you take a step running or
00:50:02
you take a take a pedal biking you are
00:50:06
training your mind it's part of the same
00:50:08
package and you should train whatever
00:50:10
you're trying to train for. So mentally
00:50:14
um there's the safety side and that's
00:50:16
academic.
00:50:17
Um but physically I've got a you know
00:50:21
I've got a background and stuff. Um
00:50:24
and it's a it's a varied background.
00:50:26
It's it's not a or some people might
00:50:29
call it an elite background, but it's
00:50:32
kind of what I've did wrong that taught
00:50:33
me more than what I did right. For
00:50:35
example, I I was busy coaching one
00:50:38
summer and I said, "Right, I'm going to
00:50:40
do coast to coast." So I did coast to
00:50:42
coast. My biggest week of training was
00:50:45
five hours.
00:50:46
>> So
00:50:48
um
00:50:49
>> that's shocking by the way. That is
00:50:51
terrible.
00:50:51
>> That is that's yeah that that is a
00:50:53
shocking. So you're going into I don't
00:50:54
know 14 hour race of 5 hour week under
00:50:57
your belt. So I was just working and and
00:50:59
I went into that and I said right I'm
00:51:01
well I had no other default setting. I'm
00:51:04
a racer. I'm just and that challenge
00:51:07
appealed to me as much as trying to
00:51:10
train properly and win the race. And so
00:51:12
I'm like, "Right, here's me. Here's my
00:51:14
body. What can I get out of my body
00:51:17
today to get 100% performance?
00:51:21
Something's going to go wrong. I'm going
00:51:23
to pull something, strain something. I'm
00:51:25
going to have to adjust. You know, I'm
00:51:27
going to have to tape my ankles because
00:51:29
they're not as trained and as strong as
00:51:31
they should be." and you know, so that's
00:51:34
just the way I I rolled and I you know,
00:51:35
I still got I don't know, top 20. So I
00:51:39
was just I was just I was just wired
00:51:42
like that. I didn't need the others to
00:51:44
make me go fast. I could have gone and
00:51:46
done it on a different day and gone just
00:51:48
as hard. That's just how I was wired.
00:51:51
And I was just as happy with doing that
00:51:53
as I was with training properly and
00:51:55
trying to go top five, you know. Um
00:51:59
and and that's what taught me a lot of
00:52:02
things, you know, how to change muscle
00:52:05
groups and and look after one muscle
00:52:07
group and then because that happens
00:52:09
every day when you're on the smash for
00:52:11
16 hours, sort of five or six days in a
00:52:13
row, something's you're all you're
00:52:15
straining things every day. And so
00:52:17
you've got to figure out what pressure
00:52:19
you can apply and what the limit is and
00:52:22
what's pain and what's injury. And
00:52:24
you've got to have a very good clear
00:52:27
understanding of what what that is.
00:52:30
>> Um yeah,
00:52:32
>> you you must have been match fit though,
00:52:33
like I um as in did you do some 16-hour
00:52:37
days or you you did some overnights on
00:52:40
the on the boat?
00:52:41
>> Yep. So with if you're trading for Iron
00:52:44
Man, your physical pattern is the
00:52:48
primary objective of your plan. So, you
00:52:50
know, I've got to get up to a certain
00:52:52
amount of hours at a certain amount of
00:52:54
intensity, and that's the primary
00:52:57
objective of your training schedule. So,
00:52:59
my primary objective was
00:53:02
it was probably third on the scale. So,
00:53:05
if I went out for a 24-hour paddle,
00:53:08
um my main objective would be, okay,
00:53:12
I've got a one one and a half meter
00:53:14
swell today. Can I get inside the cabin?
00:53:17
Can I sit on my legs and knees and heels
00:53:22
for three hours while I take the water
00:53:24
maker apart and put it back together?
00:53:26
That's more important than the 24 hours
00:53:28
of paddling. So all of my training was
00:53:32
course specific. So it's not nec Yes, I
00:53:35
paddled for 24 hours, but I spent 3
00:53:37
hours inside the cabin. That's
00:53:38
physically harder because I don't know,
00:53:40
especially at this age. Have you tried
00:53:41
to sit on your ankles lately? How long
00:53:43
have you sit on your ankles for? So, I
00:53:45
literally had to train myself to do
00:53:48
that. So, every time I'm watching TV,
00:53:50
I'm sitting on my ankles and stretching
00:53:52
them out so I can get them to the point.
00:53:54
I mean, that boat's not very wide. I
00:53:57
could literally turn around. So,
00:54:00
training is worst case. Get it wrong,
00:54:01
get it wrong, get it wrong, bust
00:54:03
everything, repair it, and go again. So,
00:54:06
training's objective was not the
00:54:08
physical 24 hours because like I say, I
00:54:10
can kind of handle that. Um, I've just
00:54:13
got to know when to back off and when
00:54:14
when not to. Uh, yes, I have to have a
00:54:17
training volume. So,
00:54:18
>> but I suppose when you when you're out
00:54:20
in the water for that long, you're going
00:54:21
to get you're going to get match fit as
00:54:22
you go.
00:54:23
>> Yeah. But most the the majority of my
00:54:25
training was in a K1 on a river dead
00:54:27
flat.
00:54:28
>> And it basically was dictated by the
00:54:30
weather. Every time it started getting
00:54:32
shitty, that's when I went out on the on
00:54:34
the sea. So, okay, you know, learning
00:54:36
how to do things like replace your water
00:54:38
maker while you're in a swell. Um, pull
00:54:41
it apart, do it. Um, you know, getting
00:54:43
in and out of the boat. So, what's what
00:54:46
how do how do we test this boat for real
00:54:48
structure? You go out in the surf. Okay,
00:54:51
it's a 3 m swell today, right? Go out in
00:54:53
the surf line where it's breaking.
00:54:55
Anchor there. Get in the boat. Then
00:54:57
figure out when it's safe to get in,
00:54:58
when it's safe to get out, and how much
00:55:00
of a pounding you can actually handle
00:55:02
doing that. So then you know exactly
00:55:04
when you should be going out of the boat
00:55:05
and when you shouldn't be. It's not go
00:55:07
out and find out when you're on the
00:55:08
Tasman. It's, you know, uh what's his
00:55:11
name? Chris the sailor, the round the
00:55:13
world sailor. Old school. Hey, I mean
00:55:16
that was his motto for Dixon.
00:55:17
>> Dixon. That's it.
00:55:18
>> Uh that was his motto. You know, go out,
00:55:20
break the boat, sail it hard, and then
00:55:23
fix it better. Go and break it again.
00:55:26
Fix it. And then you're then you're
00:55:28
ready to go. I I love that so much
00:55:30
because we you know you hear the saying
00:55:32
um failure is a stepping stone to
00:55:34
success but this is an example of that
00:55:36
in like real life terms high risk terms
00:55:39
as well.
00:55:39
>> Yeah. Exactly. And then like if you've
00:55:40
gone out there and you know exactly what
00:55:42
your threshold is for getting in and out
00:55:44
of the boat. You don't know. You don't
00:55:46
know how fast you can corner on a bike
00:55:47
until you've actually come off. then you
00:55:49
know
00:55:51
then you know what your limit is and you
00:55:53
know exactly where it is and you know
00:55:54
whether you're in within 10% of it or
00:55:57
20% of it when you're cornering. So it's
00:55:59
it's exactly like that with within the
00:56:01
boat. You've got to find ways and if
00:56:04
you've got 3 weeks of fairly flat water,
00:56:06
you can't do it.
00:56:08
>> You got to wait.
00:56:09
>> So So when you're out there on the
00:56:11
Tasine, um average 24-hour cycle, what
00:56:13
did that look like? Was there such a
00:56:15
thing as an average 24-hour cycle?
00:56:17
So, there's a whole lot of things that
00:56:19
come into a 24-hour cycle. So,
00:56:21
basically, if you can paddle, you do
00:56:22
paddle uh at least 16 hours a day. That
00:56:25
was the objective. Um, but in order to
00:56:27
do that, you've got to have a few
00:56:29
things. First one, safety. Is it safe to
00:56:32
get into the boat or out of the boat? I
00:56:33
say, okay, I've got I've got a 3 m swell
00:56:36
at
00:56:37
15 seconds, which is quite a long
00:56:40
interval. So, there's only there's a
00:56:41
little bit of white water around that's
00:56:43
increasing over the next 24 hours. I
00:56:45
know that it's specifically it's
00:56:47
increasing overnight.
00:56:50
Um,
00:56:51
so am I going to get into the boat or am
00:56:54
I going to the dangerous part I
00:56:56
identified the dangerous part which is
00:56:58
getting from the cockpit to the uh cabin
00:57:01
and vice versa because
00:57:03
>> you can't be attached.
00:57:05
>> Okay. So you're untethered for that
00:57:07
short moment.
00:57:07
>> For the short moment you're untethered.
00:57:09
So that is the least safe process of the
00:57:11
of the whole thing. So you have to get
00:57:13
that right. It's not a It's not like
00:57:16
Oops, got it wrong today.
00:57:18
>> Yeah. Yeah. But when when you get
00:57:19
fatigued, it's so easy to make mistakes.
00:57:21
E, and slip up.
00:57:22
>> And that's just it. And that's a mental
00:57:23
state of mind. I mean, you train your
00:57:25
brain to be able to do that. So, like I
00:57:27
used to run my swimmers to the top of a
00:57:29
hill, swimmers to the top of a hill, get
00:57:30
their heart rate, check it, and say,
00:57:32
"Right, oh, here's a here's an algebraic
00:57:35
equation. Who's who's going to win?" You
00:57:37
know, it's it's just something you
00:57:39
practice under pressure. It's something
00:57:40
you practice under pressure if you you
00:57:41
go in the military at the SAS end. It's
00:57:44
it's a trainable concept. Every concept
00:57:47
is trainable, especially when it's the
00:57:49
gray matter. So, you know, uh
00:57:53
uh claustrophobia. Most people jump in
00:57:56
my boat don't last a minute in there
00:57:58
just sitting there. Um
00:58:02
let alone in a washing machine. So, and
00:58:05
I got comfortable with that pretty
00:58:07
quickly. I mean, I'm not particularly
00:58:08
claustrophobic, but I wasn't also
00:58:10
particularly comfortable. So, uh, I went
00:58:13
out there and,
00:58:15
uh, two things I did. First thing I did
00:58:18
when I started sleeping, I was getting
00:58:19
used to being seasick as well. So, I
00:58:21
stuck my head up the pointy end of the
00:58:23
boat. So, you got you got the air and
00:58:25
it's also the part of the boat that
00:58:27
moves the most. So, I was just working
00:58:29
on getting used to being seasick. So,
00:58:32
uh, anchored the boat and slept slept
00:58:34
there. And then um also the
00:58:36
claustrophobia part. So I now need if my
00:58:39
head's up here. Think about that boat.
00:58:42
If my head's at the pointy end, how do I
00:58:44
turn around?
00:58:47
Boat's about this wide. So I have to get
00:58:49
flexible enough to be able to pull my
00:58:51
knees and legs up to rotate round to get
00:58:54
my head back up the other end inside the
00:58:56
boat. Uh worst case, if it's on its
00:58:59
side, it's never going to be upside down
00:59:00
because of the nature of the build. All
00:59:02
right. What's the worst case now? What
00:59:04
if the doors open? So that's what I did.
00:59:06
I I got uh my head up the pointy end. I
00:59:09
got Sarah in there and it's one of the
00:59:11
reasons what I got Sarah was to, you
00:59:13
know, make her a little more
00:59:14
comfortable. And I said, "Right, I push
00:59:16
the boat down and flood the boat while I
00:59:19
my head's up the other end and I've got
00:59:21
to get out." So, you know, worst case
00:59:24
scenario, think of it, practice it, do
00:59:27
it, and then way we go. So, I'd done all
00:59:30
of that as well.
00:59:31
That little cabin that must have stunk
00:59:34
>> apparently. So apparently I got cuz
00:59:37
that's the first thing Zach said when he
00:59:39
got I got off the boat. It was on TV.
00:59:41
You stink dad.
00:59:43
>> Um I'm like
00:59:46
>> quite acclimatized.
00:59:47
>> Um what was it what was the most
00:59:49
frightening moment in that 2018
00:59:51
crossing? What was there any like it
00:59:53
seems like you were very very matter of
00:59:55
fact and compartmentalized but
00:59:58
>> I mean again the whole process if you're
01:00:01
frightened
01:00:02
go back do some more homework you
01:00:05
haven't been there if you're frightened
01:00:06
you haven't been there you haven't done
01:00:08
your homework you haven't been in rough
01:00:09
enough conditions you know go get some
01:00:12
practice and then turn up so you're not
01:00:14
frightened so um you know u Liam Lawson
01:00:18
doesn't drive frightened there's
01:00:20
probably a period where he's going into
01:00:21
a war going, "Oh shit." But he also
01:00:23
knows he's got the safety gear around
01:00:25
him to to probably take the hit.
01:00:28
>> Um, and it's exactly the same. If you're
01:00:30
frightened, again, right from the the
01:00:33
McCauley thing, it's not how you should
01:00:36
be out there.
01:00:37
>> And if you're frightened, you're liable
01:00:38
to make a poor decision. So, I really
01:00:41
tried to make sure that didn't happen.
01:00:42
>> So, there there was nothing that
01:00:44
happened in in that 61 days.
01:00:48
Wow.
01:00:49
>> Yeah.
01:00:49
>> Wow. That is uh
01:00:50
>> well it's the same for sharks. Um you
01:00:52
know people are like oh shark shark that
01:00:55
is such a psychological
01:00:58
and normal person thing to do. What
01:01:00
what's the danger from sharks? It's
01:01:01
where they live. So um training a um
01:01:05
cookst straight swimmer. Don't like
01:01:07
sharks. Fear of sharks. Fine. All right.
01:01:09
Let's go to Kelly Tons or let's let's go
01:01:12
and get in with them. All right. then
01:01:14
let's get in the open water with them
01:01:16
and then you know find a way go find a
01:01:18
shark and you know make friends. Um
01:01:22
you know get used to being in the
01:01:24
environment. If you're not used to being
01:01:25
environment and you're going to freak
01:01:26
out then don't try and swim the cook
01:01:28
straight
01:01:29
>> you know. So it's it's all trainable
01:01:31
stuff. It's it's gray matter.
01:01:33
>> Um another guy uh managed to do it in
01:01:36
2023. Richard Barnes. Um do you know
01:01:38
him? Did he speak to you? Did he contact
01:01:40
you? What when you get a phone call like
01:01:43
that? What do you What do you say?
01:01:46
>> What do I say? Um,
01:01:49
well, I try and go through a lot of the
01:01:52
stuff we just went through. Um, you
01:01:54
know,
01:01:55
>> but there's Yeah,
01:01:59
just for example, his boat was too big
01:02:01
in that he did not have much control
01:02:05
over his vectors. His boat was just too
01:02:08
big and his power was not enough for the
01:02:11
vessel that he had. I mean, he ended up
01:02:15
several hundred ks south of New Zealand
01:02:18
about to travel past, which is how the
01:02:20
wind works down there. And he got two
01:02:24
weeks, nearly two weeks straight of a
01:02:27
suddly that blew him back to New
01:02:29
Zealand. In my books, that's incredibly
01:02:33
lucky because that weather doesn't
01:02:35
happen that often down there. And the
01:02:38
weather he got on the his crossing was
01:02:41
really quite good for the Tasman. It was
01:02:43
it was almost ideal.
01:02:45
>> Um but he wasn't able to control his
01:02:46
vectors because he had the wrong boat
01:02:48
versus the wrong power
01:02:50
>> number. But he did he did talk to me.
01:02:52
What he took on board, I'm not sure. Um
01:02:56
I actually had a hand in getting him off
01:02:58
the water in a previous trip.
01:03:02
>> Um
01:03:04
yeah, the less said about that the
01:03:06
better. Yeah. Yeah. Does it frustrate
01:03:08
you when people do it and they're not as
01:03:10
um adequately prepared as what you were?
01:03:13
>> Well, I I I don't blame them for not not
01:03:16
being prepared as as I was. And you
01:03:19
know, I try not to apply my, you know,
01:03:22
my standards to anybody else. I'm no
01:03:26
uh I'm no authority in in some sense. Um
01:03:30
but the basics, the the stuff that I can
01:03:32
explain to you that you can understand
01:03:33
straight away, that frustrates me.
01:03:36
>> Yeah. what you're saying it makes makes
01:03:37
perfect sense.
01:03:38
>> Yeah.
01:03:39
>> Makes I still wouldn't want to do it.
01:03:40
>> No. And nor should you.
01:03:42
>> But it makes a lot of sense. And there's
01:03:43
a lot of stuff that you've said that you
01:03:44
can apply to um just about anything
01:03:47
really.
01:03:47
>> Absolutely. Well, like I say, this all
01:03:49
came from my coaching people to do
01:03:50
stuff.
01:03:51
>> Yeah.
01:03:51
>> You know, so um I had swim squads for
01:03:54
for many years and and it's
01:03:57
>> there's not not a lot more honest than a
01:03:59
black line in the pool.
01:04:01
>> Yeah.
01:04:01
>> You know, and you've got you got all of
01:04:03
the same concepts. you don't have, you
01:04:05
know, you don't have the gear arguably,
01:04:07
but uh yeah, it's it's all fairly
01:04:11
manageable stuff. All the information is
01:04:13
out there. Um but you it's it's up to
01:04:16
you to organize it and prioritize it.
01:04:19
>> There was a period for you out there
01:04:20
where um the storm was so bad that you
01:04:22
were locked in that um little cabin,
01:04:24
which we've described as like a coffin
01:04:26
for six days. Um
01:04:29
>> Yeah. How was your mental health then?
01:04:33
>> Okay. Uh, not good. Good and not good.
01:04:38
Cuz you know how on the first trip
01:04:40
Sarah's mom died?
01:04:43
>> Um, Sarah wasn't that close to her dad.
01:04:45
They'd split up. But still, you know,
01:04:48
they got on a right.
01:04:49
>> And your dad's dead, right?
01:04:51
>> Yeah.
01:04:52
>> Regardless of the
01:04:53
>> Yeah.
01:04:53
>> closess.
01:04:54
>> Can you guess what happened while I was
01:04:56
going backwards in the middle of the
01:04:57
tasine?
01:05:00
>> You can.
01:05:01
>> Yeah,
01:05:02
>> you can. Yeah.
01:05:05
>> So, you've got um you got a satellite
01:05:07
phone.
01:05:08
>> Yeah.
01:05:09
>> Why Why does she Why does she tell you?
01:05:12
>> Um
01:05:12
>> did she consider not?
01:05:13
>> That's the kind of relation she did
01:05:14
consider not. And she actually didn't
01:05:16
for a while. She knows I can cope with
01:05:18
it. And she als That's the kind of
01:05:20
relationship we have. You know, I'd
01:05:21
rather she did.
01:05:22
>> I I don't want her to look after me. I
01:05:25
just want us to be open,
01:05:26
>> honest. And that's
01:05:29
>> Yeah. Not even that. Just Just keep it
01:05:31
direct. keep it simple. Um, you know,
01:05:34
let me deal with my I mean, uh, I was
01:05:37
upset about the mom cuz I knew she had
01:05:41
that kind of relationship and and I
01:05:43
wasn't there emotionally for her. Dad
01:05:45
was less of an emotional problem. But,
01:05:48
you know, just she's got to organize a
01:05:51
dad's funeral.
01:05:53
Well, I'm not there, you know. Um,
01:05:58
that's helpless.
01:05:59
>> That is utterly helpless.
01:06:01
So I,
01:06:04
you know, I'm so good at my job out
01:06:06
there. She knows that's not going to
01:06:08
make me unsafe.
01:06:10
And to be honest, that's a big call cuz,
01:06:13
you know, you, like I say, you've got to
01:06:15
be. But having said that, people have
01:06:17
survived in being emotionally unstable.
01:06:18
But
01:06:20
you're you're increasing your risk
01:06:22
factor a bit there.
01:06:25
>> Yes. So yeah. So what's going through
01:06:28
your head? Like what's your thought
01:06:29
process at that time? So you're six
01:06:30
days.
01:06:31
>> Yeah.
01:06:31
>> In this tiny tiny little cabin.
01:06:33
>> Yeah. Well,
01:06:34
>> nothing you can do. Just total help
01:06:36
helplessness.
01:06:38
>> Actually, I've had some experience here,
01:06:43
>> you know.
01:06:43
>> Yeah.
01:06:45
>> Uh oh. All right. So, that's a a hard
01:06:50
thing to take.
01:06:52
One of my logistical fauxars was down
01:06:56
the bottom of my list in terms of
01:06:58
importance was music. Because people
01:06:59
say, "What did you do?" You know, "Did
01:07:00
you listen to music?" I'm like, "I'm
01:07:02
never bored there. You're always doing
01:07:05
something. You're always making
01:07:06
calculations,
01:07:08
uh, regoing over your safety. You're
01:07:10
constantly calculating vectors in wind."
01:07:12
So, I'm never chilling. There's no point
01:07:15
where you're chilling. So, down the
01:07:17
bottom of the list is the iPod. Um,
01:07:20
chucked it in. Yeah. Oh, [ __ ] I've got
01:07:21
my B iPod. What's on there? A little bit
01:07:23
of Italian language. Okay. And um
01:07:28
and on there is uh oh god it'll come to
01:07:32
me in a minute.
01:07:34
Even essence
01:07:36
>> oh yeah emo an emo band from the early
01:07:39
2000s.
01:07:40
>> Suicidal emo band.
01:07:42
This is the only music I've and and you
01:07:47
you know I'm lying there going nah nah.
01:07:51
I'm just like
01:07:53
you know what? Why not throw another
01:07:54
challenge in? I'm gonna listen.
01:07:59
What have I got?
01:08:00
>> Just to make it more unbearable.
01:08:02
>> There was a couple of days days there
01:08:03
just on repeat eancence. I'm like,
01:08:06
"Yeah, I can go."
01:08:08
>> Yeah. Cuz you're in there day and night
01:08:10
for for six days. Um I mean the the
01:08:13
dream would be to sleep through it and
01:08:15
just wake up when the storm's finished.
01:08:16
It's not it's not a reality. But it is I
01:08:19
mean you get very good at meditating
01:08:21
>> very good because you you've got to
01:08:23
otherwise you come out of the cabin just
01:08:26
absolutely naked
01:08:28
>> just rooted you just
01:08:30
>> um it's
01:08:32
oh you know and you asked about the blue
01:08:35
plate before um
01:08:37
>> oh yeah this is uh this is before we
01:08:40
started recording but you were yeah
01:08:41
you're defecating on a blue plate
01:08:43
>> yes yeah it was just a dessert bowl just
01:08:46
a blue plastic dessert
01:08:48
a because of the size. So there's an art
01:08:51
form I'll never probably use in anywhere
01:08:53
else else in life. But uh I mean when
01:08:57
you're inside the cabin trying to do
01:08:59
that, man, that's a skill. That is a
01:09:01
really dynamic skill.
01:09:03
>> So you just have to like hoist your hips
01:09:05
>> off the mat and
01:09:07
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, in the same way you um
01:09:10
adapt to the the motion of the ocean, uh
01:09:13
you know, when you're standing, I'm not
01:09:15
obviously standing, but you get a very
01:09:17
very good feel even when you can't see
01:09:18
the waves, you can feel um what's
01:09:21
happening and what's coming and what's
01:09:23
what's going on. And so, you have to
01:09:26
>> choose the moment.
01:09:27
>> Choose the moment and be dynamic with
01:09:30
your arms and legs while you're doing
01:09:32
it. And you've got to get it right
01:09:33
because getting it wrong is not an
01:09:36
option. And and and when you're when
01:09:37
you're doing um these these bell
01:09:39
movements and you're locked in the cabin
01:09:40
for six days, are you able to get rid of
01:09:42
it or do you have to like zip lock put
01:09:44
in a Ziploc bag or something or what are
01:09:46
you doing?
01:09:47
>> No, no, you can get rid of it.
01:09:48
>> Oh yeah. Okay.
01:09:49
>> Um but you know, no toilet paper.
01:09:51
>> Yeah.
01:09:52
>> You got to rinse and rinse and and wash.
01:09:55
Um, yeah. I mean, I've got all
01:10:00
keeping things relatively antibacterial
01:10:03
is one of the biggest challenges of of
01:10:06
the whole thing. But yeah, there's
01:10:07
there's all sorts of bits and pieces,
01:10:08
but yeah, basically, uh, it's all it's
01:10:11
all free to air
01:10:13
>> and and in that tiny little cabin, um,
01:10:16
you mentioned the iPod just before. Any
01:10:17
other home comforts? Like, is there is
01:10:19
there like a like a handwritten note
01:10:20
from your son on the wall or any any
01:10:23
photos or anything?
01:10:25
Uh, no, no,
01:10:28
>> no. Um, they we had a a bit of a food
01:10:32
party where we were vacuum packing some
01:10:34
of the some of the food packages we put
01:10:36
together. So we put together basically
01:10:39
uh yeah it was it was freeze-dried fruit
01:10:42
back country and uh we I had four meals
01:10:46
a day at least four but sometimes five
01:10:48
meals a day of uh rolled oats and those
01:10:51
were
01:10:53
split into
01:10:55
protein type mixes with you know a whole
01:10:58
bunch of seeds and all sorts of
01:11:00
different types of stuff in it and then
01:11:01
carbohydrate type mixes and then um and
01:11:06
And that was also split with insure as
01:11:08
well. And so I had these bags where I
01:11:11
could just open them, pour some water
01:11:13
in, leave it for half an hour, and then
01:11:15
just spoon it out. Cuz what you don't
01:11:17
think about is there's hardly ever
01:11:19
tailwind.
01:11:20
>> If you're paddling into even 10 knots,
01:11:22
and you stop paddling for 10 strokes,
01:11:26
you're going that way. It now takes you
01:11:28
20 strokes to get back around and get
01:11:31
pointed forward again. So when you eat,
01:11:33
you can't just sit there and chow down a
01:11:35
whole pack. It's most of the time it's
01:11:37
couple of spoonfuls, keep paddling,
01:11:39
couple of spoonfuls, keep paddling.
01:11:41
Otherwise, you're going to get your
01:11:42
energy is just going to go backwards
01:11:43
because you get pointed the other way.
01:11:45
>> And to to reorientate the boat again is
01:11:47
going to be too hard. Let alone if
01:11:49
there's an offset side wind, that's even
01:11:50
harder.
01:11:52
>> My god, you really have to keep
01:11:53
grinding, eh?
01:11:54
>> Yeah.
01:11:54
>> So So what's it like after six days in
01:11:56
that in that locked in that cabin where
01:11:58
there's a storm outside to find out just
01:11:59
how far you've been pushed back?
01:12:02
>> Um, well that's the thing. First couple
01:12:03
of days you've got the GPS, got the GPS,
01:12:06
got the GPS, turn it off. Turn it off.
01:12:09
>> Just too depressing.
01:12:10
>> Yeah.
01:12:11
>> Yeah. Yeah. You can't have that negative
01:12:13
input otherwise because if you do get
01:12:15
depressed, for example, if you, you
01:12:17
know, in food, this is again brain
01:12:19
training. Um, you know, what about food?
01:12:22
What do you like? It's got nothing to do
01:12:23
with whatever you got to train your
01:12:24
brain to ignore taste and just eat when
01:12:28
you got to eat because sometimes, you
01:12:29
know, feeling seasick, you got to eat.
01:12:31
So, um, you know, adjusting how you look
01:12:35
at food is is really important
01:12:36
psychologically because if you get a
01:12:38
craving out there, that craving can
01:12:40
start overalling everything to the point
01:12:42
where you're making poor decisions. It's
01:12:44
like, oh, I've got this craving for a
01:12:45
pie. Oh, I don't want to eat my my
01:12:48
musli. You know what I mean? Uh, which
01:12:51
is just standard kids stuff dayto-day
01:12:52
means nothing. But out there it really
01:12:54
can have an accumulative effect
01:12:56
>> and and be you know reasonably
01:12:59
consequent con consequential.
01:13:01
>> So
01:13:02
>> did you how did you develop that skill
01:13:04
to like when negative thoughts thoughts
01:13:06
are creeping in to just you know block
01:13:08
them out and get back on
01:13:09
>> well a lot of that's from um coaching
01:13:13
people to do things and and my own you
01:13:15
know athletic career. I mean you've got
01:13:17
to stay positive right? any performance
01:13:19
is about um
01:13:22
you know the basic mental tools of
01:13:25
performance which is if you've got that
01:13:26
negative thought in there then that
01:13:29
actually affects your power.
01:13:31
>> Um if it's 100 meters if you're doing a
01:13:34
100 meter sprint race on the track, you
01:13:37
know, you get one thing wrong and you're
01:13:40
not going as fast as as you want to go.
01:13:42
you know, um even if it's just two steps
01:13:45
that aren't as powerful as they should
01:13:47
be, that turns out to be half second at
01:13:49
the end of the race or or splits
01:13:51
depending on who you are and how fast
01:13:52
you're going.
01:13:53
>> Um same with Iron Man. Oh, you know, oh,
01:13:56
I'm tired. As soon as you think you're
01:13:59
tired, you are.
01:14:00
>> End of story.
01:14:01
>> Uh as soon as you think you're tired,
01:14:02
you've lost. You've lost maximum
01:14:04
performance level.
01:14:05
>> You can't do it. So, as soon as that
01:14:07
thought enters your head, you're in
01:14:08
trouble. So, it's it's basic sports
01:14:10
psychology. But like I said, I wanted to
01:14:12
take it right. So there's a massive
01:14:14
toolbox on, you know, uh, everybody
01:14:16
knows what a little bit of uh,
01:14:18
meditation does for you, but like I say,
01:14:20
when you've got to do it under pressure
01:14:22
for six days
01:14:23
>> in order to survive and make sure that
01:14:25
your body's in the best condition, so
01:14:27
when you get out, you can actually
01:14:28
paddle, let alone your mind. Um, yeah,
01:14:31
you're going backwards fast. And you've
01:14:32
got to, so the one thing I learned in
01:14:35
the first trip was I'm going to go
01:14:36
backwards. I need to modify my
01:14:38
expectations.
01:14:40
I'm looking at the from all the weather
01:14:42
I've looked at the most I'm probably
01:14:44
going to go I didn't make the call but
01:14:46
I'm maybe four days backwards.
01:14:48
It's like I'm going backwards for five
01:14:50
days. You're starting to lose the plot
01:14:52
in the fifth day. It's not cuz it's any
01:14:54
difference. It's because you had
01:14:55
expectations.
01:14:56
>> You have to be able to drop those
01:14:59
expectations.
01:15:00
>> One thing to say it, another thing to be
01:15:03
able to do it.
01:15:04
>> Yeah.
01:15:04
>> So you is and so I learned that from the
01:15:07
first trip. So when I went into the the
01:15:08
long six days at the in the second trip,
01:15:11
I'm like, "No, I haven't got
01:15:12
expectations. Take two weeks. Whatever
01:15:14
you got to take, you got to take and
01:15:16
then I'll just jump back on the horse."
01:15:17
You know, it's
01:15:19
>> uh you practiced, it's experienced.
01:15:21
>> You're tough as nails, aren't you?
01:15:24
>> Um
01:15:25
>> yeah, I don't look at it as tough, but
01:15:27
yes. Yeah, I agree in that. Um, you
01:15:29
know,
01:15:30
>> because I mean the the stuff that you're
01:15:31
saying it makes perfect sense, but it is
01:15:33
um easy to say it, but it's a lot harder
01:15:35
to actually implement it in real life
01:15:37
terms.
01:15:37
>> Oh, 100%. Yeah. Yeah. There's Yeah,
01:15:40
there's I'm I'm tough at that kind of
01:15:42
thing because I've had some practice,
01:15:43
had some experience. I mean, you put me
01:15:44
in a boxing ring, I'm not so tough.
01:15:48
>> You put You put a boxer in my boat,
01:15:50
they're not so tough.
01:15:51
>> Yeah. Well, I think it was Muhammad Ali
01:15:53
that or Mike Tyson that originally said,
01:15:55
"Everyone's got a plan until they get
01:15:56
punched in the face."
01:15:57
>> Exactly.
01:15:58
>> Yeah. Um what about fun things that you
01:16:00
saw out there like um were there any
01:16:02
like just crazy wild sunrises or
01:16:04
sunsets?
01:16:05
>> Oh yeah. Well, like I said the the stars
01:16:07
before that was the stars and the um
01:16:09
fluoresence was probably the the most
01:16:13
visually striking one that's imprinted
01:16:15
in my brain. Sunsets. Yeah. Oh, you see
01:16:17
them every every morning. You're up at
01:16:19
sunset. So or before sunset. So you get
01:16:22
to see you're living outside which is
01:16:24
just another way of life which is really
01:16:28
refreshing. I mean so one of the things
01:16:30
I tried to do was deprogram. So I
01:16:32
started withdrawing from a lot of
01:16:34
conversations um and just getting used
01:16:38
to my own company a bit more and just
01:16:41
psychologically you know uh appreciating
01:16:44
food less for a few weeks. Um and and
01:16:48
and then I'm going through going in at
01:16:51
the other end for the last couple of
01:16:53
days. I'm going through reprogramming my
01:16:55
brain. I'm starting to talk to myself on
01:16:57
purpose because you know I I knew there
01:17:01
was going to be a media storm after the
01:17:03
second one and the first one for um but
01:17:05
you've got to actually reprogram your
01:17:07
brain to start talking. You I've been
01:17:09
silent for two months. It is really hard
01:17:12
to talk after you've been silent for two
01:17:14
months, especially.
01:17:16
>> Yeah, it would be. It would sound weird
01:17:18
in your own head.
01:17:19
>> Oh, 100%. So, I I literally started
01:17:21
having conversations with myself because
01:17:23
I knew I was going to have to step
01:17:25
straight off the boat and talk to media
01:17:27
in a reasonably it's all you feel like
01:17:30
doing is getting off and going, "Huh,
01:17:31
that was good." But, um, you know,
01:17:33
you've got to be reasonably descriptive
01:17:35
about it. So from an uh there was a
01:17:38
whole plan from an emotional point of
01:17:40
view. It's like okay the experience and
01:17:42
the journey that's mine. No one's really
01:17:44
going to know what this is like. Even if
01:17:45
I explain to you what a 5 m wave like
01:17:48
you are not going to get it.
01:17:49
>> No.
01:17:50
>> Um and I that's my trip but I also know
01:17:54
now this has got nationwide coverage. So
01:17:57
I kind of it's like this is your trip.
01:18:00
So this is this is for you. And so I
01:18:03
stepped out of it from that point of
01:18:05
view and that's how I could sort of do
01:18:06
all that media straight away and just
01:18:08
changed that mindset straight into it
01:18:10
because it was hours and hours of media
01:18:12
>> and I was happy to and like I say it's
01:18:14
not my natural state
01:18:16
>> but I needed to be happy to do it
01:18:18
otherwise it wasn't going to deliver a
01:18:20
good experience
01:18:21
>> and it and it was it was a fantastic
01:18:23
experience but it wasn't mine anymore so
01:18:25
I started talking kind of on automatic I
01:18:27
guess I guess you'd get
01:18:29
>> cliches or
01:18:30
>> yeah I guess you get you get into that
01:18:32
talk mode. I guess you would do it as a
01:18:34
DJ. Um, you know, where the mouth is on,
01:18:37
the brain's working at the right speed
01:18:39
and, um, it becomes all fairly natural.
01:18:41
>> Yeah. Like muscle memory in a way.
01:18:43
>> Yeah, a little bit. Yeah.
01:18:44
>> Um, yeah. Yeah. We'll get to that um
01:18:46
that um epic moment shortly where you
01:18:49
finished, but um yeah, a couple of other
01:18:50
things like ever surprised by any
01:18:53
container ships or anything? Any you see
01:18:55
anyone else out there?
01:18:56
>> No. um on the first basically
01:19:00
200ks beside land. Yeah, heaps. And then
01:19:05
maybe 150 by New Zealand a little bit.
01:19:08
But um you know it's just it's a highway
01:19:10
outside Australia. So one of the tricks
01:19:13
to paddling the Tasman is you need to
01:19:16
get your first five days rate right
01:19:18
because you're going across the East
01:19:19
Australian current. is quite a few guys
01:19:22
have tried this kind of thing and it's
01:19:24
like you have to get across the East
01:19:26
Australian current and they're like oh
01:19:27
yeah oh yeah they haven't figured out
01:19:29
this their vectors 90 degrees to the
01:19:31
current and so that the only predictable
01:19:35
weather you have is when you leave so
01:19:37
that's why you have to wait for a window
01:19:39
to get across the current to get into
01:19:42
the right wagon wheel to flick you on to
01:19:45
because that's the strongest currents
01:19:46
where you have the least say in what's
01:19:48
going on. So, you've really got to cover
01:19:50
that first couple hundredk
01:19:52
as best you can, which is why you wait
01:19:54
for the right weather window. Pretty
01:19:57
straightforward, but like I say, a lot
01:19:58
of guys just don't get that right. So,
01:20:02
yeah, you've got to you've got to stay
01:20:05
awake for a start cuz container ships,
01:20:08
they you know, you're going to come
01:20:10
second.
01:20:11
>> They're not stopping for you.
01:20:12
>> You're going to come second. You get on
01:20:13
the radio. Yeah.
01:20:15
>> Most of them pretty talkative and pretty
01:20:17
good. Um, and you put a light up and
01:20:19
they can see you and and 90 90% of them
01:20:21
are fine. Some of them, you know,
01:20:24
Russian or something, don't want to talk
01:20:25
to you, can't talk to you, and it's
01:20:27
like, so you just have to be basically
01:20:30
you got to be awake for the first couple
01:20:31
days.
01:20:32
>> Uh, which is a good way to start the
01:20:34
trip anyway. You got to get at it.
01:20:36
>> And, um, once you get further on, so
01:20:40
pods of dolphins, massive pods of
01:20:43
dolphins, do
01:20:45
>> 45 minutes. Potter dolphin spinners.
01:20:47
They're called spinner dolphins. They
01:20:48
just literally spend half their time out
01:20:50
of the water. Just
01:20:52
fantastic. I mean, I've had some
01:20:54
experiences coastally, but in the open
01:20:57
water, it's very cool cuz they're I
01:20:58
guess they're kind of bored. There's not
01:20:59
much to see, but um they come, so they
01:21:02
actually come and have a look. Um yeah,
01:21:05
just amazing
01:21:07
uh stuff like that. But once you start
01:21:09
getting out that outside that 250k zone,
01:21:12
there's there's nothing. There is
01:21:14
absolutely nothing. Um, there was a
01:21:20
there was a right in the middle there
01:21:23
was a bunch of fishing boats of Asian
01:21:26
descent. I'm not sure that they were
01:21:28
supposed to be there or not, but they
01:21:31
weren't up to good. I just figured my uh
01:21:34
my pocket knife and getaway boat wasn't
01:21:36
fast enough. But anyway,
01:21:39
>> as like drugs or something or
01:21:40
>> Oh, no. They they they were flee. They
01:21:42
were net absolutely hauling nets in
01:21:46
>> right
01:21:47
>> everywhere and they wouldn't talk to me.
01:21:49
>> So um yeah I was like you [ __ ] So
01:21:52
anyway I paddled off um
01:21:55
>> not your circus not your monkeys.
01:21:56
>> Yeah. Yeah. So yeah nothing absolutely
01:22:01
nothing in the in the middle like you
01:22:03
know there there were nights where oh
01:22:05
I'm going to sleep for four hours. I'm
01:22:07
not even going to turn my light off on.
01:22:09
Sorry.
01:22:10
>> There's just nothing out here and
01:22:12
there's nothing, you know.
01:22:13
>> I knew where the the the ship um the
01:22:18
ships would cross, but um yeah. So, and
01:22:21
when you've got a horizon, you can see
01:22:23
three or four hours ahead if anyone's
01:22:25
got a light.
01:22:27
>> Um then nothing. Then yeah, I saw
01:22:31
Russo's dolphin. I didn't I thought it
01:22:33
was a whale. thought I knew my dolphins
01:22:34
pretty well, but a Russo's dolphin's
01:22:36
like almost as big as an orca orca.
01:22:39
>> It's a massive sort of narwhal gray
01:22:41
colored. So, I saw a few of those, which
01:22:43
was a cool experience. Um, there's
01:22:46
always two birds with you. There's
01:22:47
always an albatross in a turn.
01:22:51
And, you know, albatrosses when they sit
01:22:53
there, they're big. So, they're kind of
01:22:55
cool to have around, but you don't want
01:22:56
them pecking at your [ __ ] So,
01:23:00
um, there's always, yeah, an albatross
01:23:02
or a turn. very few days without them.
01:23:04
Um, but a lot of days with absolutely
01:23:07
nothing in the middle. Um, there's when
01:23:10
the uh when the flying fish come across,
01:23:12
oh, you know, it's can't believe I
01:23:15
wasn't hit in the face. They just come
01:23:17
across, they hit your boat, they and you
01:23:20
don't uh, one of the things with skin
01:23:22
integrity is you don't want any oil. So,
01:23:25
people say, "Did did you fish?" No, I
01:23:27
didn't fish. Because you don't want the
01:23:28
oil on your hands because your hands are
01:23:29
already So if you hold the paddle too
01:23:31
tight when your hands are that wet, you
01:23:33
can rip your skin. So if you got fish
01:23:35
oil on your hands, you're going to have
01:23:36
to hold the pedal too tight. And so you
01:23:39
don't want fish oil anywhere in the boat
01:23:41
apart from the uh um bacterial side of
01:23:44
it as well.
01:23:46
>> So
01:23:46
>> what about the biggest lessons about
01:23:48
yourself?
01:23:50
>> Oh, that's a hard one now. having
01:23:52
disappeared down the business hole and
01:23:54
done nothing for uh
01:23:57
a few few years. Um I you know I slipped
01:24:01
back into all the habits. So I I think
01:24:03
that's one of the reasons I can probably
01:24:04
teach quite well is uh I' I've got the
01:24:07
front end of the spectrum and the back
01:24:08
end of the spectrum in terms of doing it
01:24:10
right and doing it wrong. Um it feels
01:24:14
like a bit of an experience that's a
01:24:17
long way away from where I am now. M
01:24:19
>> uh what did I learn about myself?
01:24:22
I really validated a lot about what I
01:24:25
was teaching people and I was really
01:24:26
happy to that with that. I kind of
01:24:28
expected that. Um
01:24:32
I learned a bit I learned that I had a
01:24:34
higher capacity than I already had and I
01:24:36
already thought my capacity for
01:24:38
punishment was pretty high. Um but my
01:24:41
best athletic performance was out there
01:24:43
ever and I've done a few things. So, you
01:24:46
know, what I thought going was going
01:24:47
hard was not.
01:24:49
>> Um, so my best athletic performance was
01:24:52
Lord How the first time I'd paddled for
01:24:54
16 hours. Didn't know Lord How even
01:24:56
Well, I knew it existed, but I didn't
01:24:59
know anything about Lord How when we
01:25:01
decided to go to it. So, was it
01:25:02
surrounded by rocks? What kind of
01:25:03
currents are there? And I'm approaching
01:25:06
it in the day to night. So, I've been
01:25:08
paddling 14 hours. So, I did uh and then
01:25:12
I got there and the wind had turned and
01:25:15
I thought, "Oh, yep. Bit of a tailwind.
01:25:18
No problem. We'll roll right in there."
01:25:20
And it ended up being like a three and a
01:25:22
half knot current. So, I had to sprint
01:25:24
for eight hours after after a 14 16 hour
01:25:28
paddle. So, I had a 26-hour day and that
01:25:31
included an 8hour sprint. And the
01:25:34
current was so much that literally if I
01:25:36
had more than one spoonful of food,
01:25:40
I went there and it took me two minutes
01:25:42
to get back to pointing front. So I I
01:25:45
literally was sprinting for eight hours.
01:25:48
Um I've never gone that hard in anything
01:25:51
in my life. And um because you because
01:25:54
if you miss the island, you miss the
01:25:57
island, you know, and I was I was kind
01:25:59
of desperate to make it
01:26:01
>> um because we needed to get that battery
01:26:03
replaced. So yeah, that was that's my
01:26:05
best ever physical performance. No
01:26:06
medal, no finish line, no time, but it's
01:26:10
by far my uh best.
01:26:12
>> Well, I mean the funny thing is even
01:26:14
when you finished in 2018, like there's
01:26:16
no participation medal or finish medal
01:26:17
anyway, is there? No.
01:26:18
>> So that um I I remember this. So yeah,
01:26:21
2018 um there was some news stories
01:26:23
coming up that you were sort of in New
01:26:25
Zealand waters. Um I think um your
01:26:28
support boat had come out to to see you.
01:26:31
So we were sort of getting updates in
01:26:32
the media um that you were approaching
01:26:34
land. So did you you knew you were safe
01:26:37
at that point? You knew you'd made it?
01:26:40
>> No.
01:26:40
>> No.
01:26:41
>> Well, based on the last trip, never say
01:26:43
>> Yeah. Never, never, another
01:26:46
psychological, you know, athletic
01:26:49
>> um primary directive, never ever drop
01:26:53
your performance until you're across the
01:26:56
finish line.
01:26:56
>> Yes, the last trip taught me that
01:26:59
>> and but so is you know how many how many
01:27:01
times has that been proven in sport.
01:27:03
>> Um it's just it's just a and
01:27:07
I didn't really drop the ball in terms
01:27:09
of expectation, but you know, that one's
01:27:11
ingrained in me from way back. No, no,
01:27:13
you don't. You don't switch off until
01:27:15
you're actually on land. Even, you know,
01:27:19
you can be hit by a a tourist boater
01:27:23
>> in the last couple of KS, you know, on a
01:27:26
jet ski.
01:27:27
>> Yeah. Yeah.
01:27:28
>> So, no, no, I definitely didn't fall
01:27:31
into that trap. I was never going to.
01:27:33
>> Yeah.
01:27:33
>> So, you mentioned before you started to
01:27:35
train yourself to talk again um for the
01:27:38
anticipation of the finish line. What
01:27:39
were you saying? Did you think of a a
01:27:41
quote like a we knocked the bastard off
01:27:43
or
01:27:44
>> No. What was your line?
01:27:45
>> No. No. I wasn't thinking about what to
01:27:47
say to the media. I was just all my
01:27:49
thought processes about people. I just
01:27:51
started expressing. It's like, you know,
01:27:53
oh, it's going to be great to see Z say
01:27:56
again. You know, we're going to go and
01:27:57
do this. Stuff that your mind does. But
01:28:00
I actually just started verbalizing it
01:28:01
because the connection between your
01:28:03
mouth and the brain had
01:28:05
>> been severed essentially.
01:28:06
>> Yeah.
01:28:06
>> So, I just talked. I didn't I I'm
01:28:09
reasonably relaxed in front of a camera.
01:28:12
I guess I got feel like I've got nothing
01:28:13
to hide and I'm also kind of direct. Um
01:28:17
and from the first experience I I was
01:28:20
kind of relaxed as well. So I'm I don't
01:28:22
kind of lack information. Maybe I lack
01:28:24
expression sometimes, but I'm not I'm
01:28:26
not uncomfortable in front of a crowd or
01:28:28
a camera. So that's kind of handy. Um,
01:28:32
but the the first one was interesting
01:28:35
because I thought there was because you
01:28:37
know the media can really get on the
01:28:38
horse regarding safety and failure and
01:28:41
you know all of that kind of thing. I
01:28:42
thought they were going to get on the
01:28:43
horse after that first one.
01:28:45
>> Um, but uh they were it was amazing. So
01:28:48
I they flew me into the hospital. I was
01:28:51
fine but um they wanted to check me out.
01:28:54
Um and so I had a shave and and the
01:28:57
media sat there quietly waiting while I
01:29:00
was you know I kept them all waiting for
01:29:03
2 hours which is absolutely rare for the
01:29:05
media
01:29:06
>> and um yeah they were really respectful.
01:29:09
They were like well done. I was
01:29:11
expecting a bit of a barrage.
01:29:13
>> Um
01:29:13
>> oh yeah they tend to look for a negative
01:29:15
angle.
01:29:15
>> They do look for a negative angle and I
01:29:17
was kind of thinking oh yeah here we go.
01:29:20
Um,
01:29:21
and so it was probably that trip that I
01:29:23
was thinking of things to say,
01:29:25
>> right?
01:29:26
>> But, uh, not not not in the second trip.
01:29:29
Um, I knew it was going to be busy. The
01:29:31
the guys had already said there's a lot
01:29:33
of people here. So,
01:29:34
>> yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've watched that
01:29:36
online the last couple of days and it's
01:29:38
amazing. So, you arrive at Tanaki late
01:29:40
at late at night. Um, there's like th
01:29:43
literally thousands of people waiting.
01:29:44
There's fireworks going off. Um it's
01:29:48
like a real it's a it's a media scrum
01:29:49
around you like there's lots of lots of
01:29:51
cameras, lots of civilians with phones.
01:29:54
Um yeah. How was that? Is that
01:29:55
overwhelming?
01:29:56
>> Well, again, I prepared for it. Um so,
01:29:59
no, it wasn't overwhelming. I mean, it
01:30:00
was just great to see the guys and uh I
01:30:04
I was stoked, you know, I was wrapped.
01:30:07
It was really good. And I kind of felt
01:30:09
guilty because what I wanted to do was
01:30:11
talk to the people, but I ended up
01:30:13
talking to the media and then I did get
01:30:16
Zach off to hospital with his asthma.
01:30:17
So, um, you know, cuz they came out
01:30:21
there. It was cold, shitty weather. And
01:30:23
they had been there because they didn't
01:30:24
know when I was arriving really. Um,
01:30:26
they'd been there ages and and it was
01:30:29
just so, you know, I I so appreciated
01:30:32
that.
01:30:33
>> Um, and you know, I wasn't sure if I
01:30:36
could walk. I I thought I could because
01:30:38
I did squats every day in the boat to
01:30:40
make sure I could walk.
01:30:42
>> How? In the cockpit.
01:30:43
>> Yeah, I'll go back to that in a sec.
01:30:45
Okay. Um, so yeah, I I I was wrapped
01:30:50
with everybody being there and they were
01:30:52
all really enthusiastic about it because
01:30:55
there is kind of something in this trip
01:30:56
and it's been a while since New
01:30:58
Zealand's had a bit of a an adventure
01:31:00
>> thing to to get their head around and it
01:31:03
was just amazing and I really wanted to
01:31:05
give back to those, you know, people
01:31:07
that had put the time in to turn up.
01:31:10
>> Um, but I was kind of rushed off to the
01:31:11
media and and did that and everyone
01:31:13
stayed out civil. A lot of people stayed
01:31:15
outside. So, but I felt like I should
01:31:17
have talked to them more than the media.
01:31:20
>> Um, but then, you know, uh, we had to
01:31:23
get Zack off cuz he ran around and got
01:31:24
asthma. So,
01:31:27
>> still have the limelight off. Yeah.
01:31:28
>> Oh, yeah. So, so the squats.
01:31:31
>> Yeah.
01:31:32
>> So, just just so your your muscles don't
01:31:34
don't um wither away too much, leaving
01:31:37
you unable to walk. physically there's a
01:31:39
there's a whole again we can talk about
01:31:41
the the physiological and physical
01:31:43
aspects of this are massive. I mean I've
01:31:45
dismissed it a little bit because I've
01:31:46
got a history in being fit
01:31:49
>> but it's not necessarily about being
01:31:51
fit. The first priority in terms of your
01:31:53
fitness is actually muscle and tendon
01:31:56
and ligament integrity because if you
01:31:58
can't paddle then you got nothing. So
01:32:00
what's the most important thing for the
01:32:02
day? Being able to keep paddling. It's
01:32:04
not how hard can I perform. Although
01:32:06
that's where I was certainly on the
01:32:08
second trip. Um, so yeah, you're you sit
01:32:13
on your ass for two weeks in a kayak,
01:32:16
you won't be able to walk. I mean, some
01:32:18
people if they literally do 48 hours of
01:32:20
paddling, can't walk. I mean, you watch
01:32:22
the coast to coast, people struggle to
01:32:24
get out of their boats and walk after
01:32:26
that.
01:32:27
>> So, yeah, a couple of weeks on your ass
01:32:29
and and you're you're dead. So, like,
01:32:32
how do we get the seat to work in an
01:32:35
effective fashion because what's one of
01:32:37
the areas you really need to look at
01:32:39
skin integrity on your ass, right? So,
01:32:42
I've got a seat that first of all
01:32:44
rotates. So, what that does is when you
01:32:47
biomechanically push through a stroke,
01:32:49
it allows your whole body to work
01:32:51
through a stroke a bit more effectively.
01:32:53
Like in the Olympics, they they they use
01:32:55
rotating seats sometimes. Uh, and then
01:32:57
when you put your paddle in, uh, and you
01:33:01
you pull it back, how much friction is
01:33:03
going to be put into your backside? Uh,
01:33:06
and when you do get an abrasion on your
01:33:08
backside, is there anything you can do
01:33:10
about it? So, you're going to get
01:33:12
abrasions. Can you paddle through them?
01:33:14
Not for two months, not really.
01:33:16
>> Um, so I've got three layers of rubber,
01:33:19
soft, harder, harder. And when it when I
01:33:23
do get an abrasion, I just scoop out a
01:33:25
little bit of where my abrasion is. And
01:33:29
then Yeah. And then then you've got
01:33:31
frictional forces. What material have
01:33:34
you got in there? And what uh pulling
01:33:38
ability does it have to pull the salt
01:33:40
away from your backside. You know, all
01:33:41
all that research into materials and
01:33:44
friction and all of that did all of
01:33:46
that, too. So,
01:33:47
>> uh really scientific in terms of that
01:33:49
side of things. maybe less exciting, but
01:33:50
I you know, it's part of the part of the
01:33:52
game for me.
01:33:54
>> Yeah. And that first um hot shower,
01:33:56
what's that like?
01:33:58
>> Interesting
01:33:59
because it was in the club rooms at the
01:34:01
surf club and um
01:34:05
there were just people, it was like an
01:34:07
open shower and there were people
01:34:08
walking around and Sarah's like, "Can I
01:34:10
see your ass?" And it was just
01:34:14
>> she's such a creep.
01:34:17
>> She wasn't the only one in there. there
01:34:18
just people around and there you're
01:34:20
still talking kind of doing interviews
01:34:22
you know not on camera but
01:34:24
>> um yeah it was a very social shower um
01:34:27
so you know in in terms of uh privacy no
01:34:31
um but you it just didn't matter you
01:34:32
know
01:34:32
>> was your was what was your body like
01:34:34
your upper body must have been um ripped
01:34:37
>> yeah incredible
01:34:38
>> I was so healthy like I got nutrition
01:34:41
nailed nutrition is a beautiful thing
01:34:43
when you get it right
01:34:45
>> um that's that's a whole another
01:34:46
discussion Um, yeah. I honestly I I
01:34:50
wanted to go and run or ride up some
01:34:52
hills because I would have done it
01:34:54
faster than I've ever done in my life
01:34:55
because of my body fat was spot on. My
01:34:57
health was spot on. My fitness I could
01:34:59
go out and pedal 16 hours hard in a row
01:35:02
days on end.
01:35:04
>> Yeah, I was I was fit. I was healthy. I
01:35:06
was really good.
01:35:08
>> And what about adjusting back to normal
01:35:10
life, like sleep and stuff like that?
01:35:12
Did it happen immediately or?
01:35:15
>> No. No, it did. I mean, it wasn't normal
01:35:19
life because of the media and the, you
01:35:21
know, that lasted for weeks, not just a
01:35:24
couple of days. So, life was very
01:35:26
different. Um,
01:35:29
yeah, polar opposite. So, you know,
01:35:31
you're getting up, having a shower,
01:35:32
making sure you look you've had a shave,
01:35:34
you know, for a start, you're lying in a
01:35:36
bed that doesn't move. Uh my adaptation
01:35:39
there was really good because a lot of
01:35:41
people get off those and they're still
01:35:42
swaying for two or three days but I it
01:35:45
was pretty good because of my training.
01:35:48
>> Um adaptation. Yeah, it was yeah it was
01:35:52
just a whirlwind I guess and and you
01:35:54
just dealt with what was in front of you
01:35:55
which was kind of but good because life
01:35:57
was so simple out there
01:35:58
>> and then you're dealing with the media
01:36:00
which is also kind of it at least gives
01:36:04
you a job.
01:36:05
>> You know what I mean? um narrows things
01:36:07
down so you don't really have a lot of
01:36:08
time to reflect.
01:36:09
>> And did did the achievement bring you
01:36:11
the kind of personal satisfaction that
01:36:13
you imagined it would?
01:36:15
>> Yeah. Second time, yes, because I knew
01:36:17
exactly what I was in for. I mean, it
01:36:19
did the first time.
01:36:20
>> It gave me all the personal satisfaction
01:36:22
except the scratch
01:36:24
to scratch the itch of winning
01:36:26
>> and and you know, that's to me that's
01:36:28
doing Yeah.
01:36:30
>> Yeah.
01:36:30
>> Yeah. That's the point. You got to got
01:36:32
to at least have a crack at winning.
01:36:33
>> Yeah. And what about um adjusting back
01:36:35
to um civilian life after being on a
01:36:38
like a crazy huge adventure like that?
01:36:41
>> Yeah, different. Very, very different. I
01:36:43
mean, it's it took a bit of adjustment
01:36:45
because things, you know, they come and
01:36:49
you react to stuff you're not in control
01:36:50
of, which is kind of a little bit like
01:36:52
life, but it's
01:36:54
>> you're not in control of anything. your
01:36:56
boss is the weather and that's that's
01:36:59
wonderfully simple
01:37:00
>> and it's it's it's not negotiable.
01:37:03
It's very simple and and uh it's it's a
01:37:07
great life. Um
01:37:10
it's it's just adjusting back to life.
01:37:12
That's I'll I'll give you an idea from a
01:37:15
physical point of view. Uh before I
01:37:17
left, I was close to needing reading
01:37:19
glasses. Um I've done pretty well to
01:37:21
stay stay away. Uh, and I kind of, you
01:37:23
know, oh yeah, I can read that.
01:37:25
>> Um, when I got over, didn't need them.
01:37:29
Just didn't need them. That adjustment
01:37:31
had been made. The eyes were just, my
01:37:33
health was just fantastic and the eyes
01:37:35
were better. Like when you paddle it,
01:37:36
you're so because your senses have been
01:37:39
>> um not assaulted by anything screenwise
01:37:43
or otherwise and general life-wise.
01:37:45
you've been out there like I'm I'm
01:37:47
smelling different types of firewood
01:37:49
burning on the mountain when I'm
01:37:51
paddling in. I'm smelling the the the
01:37:55
ashfelt that's been laid the day before
01:37:56
and I'm 10ks away. You know, just your
01:38:00
senses are so heightened and because you
01:38:02
haven't had that screen input and that
01:38:04
dulling down of things like sitting in a
01:38:07
car having to wait, you know, none of
01:38:09
that. Um, everything like that was I
01:38:13
knew it was coming, but it it just it
01:38:15
was it took a bit of adjusting.
01:38:18
>> You couldn't recognize that your own
01:38:19
cabin stunk, though.
01:38:20
>> Couldn't recognize my own cabin stunk.
01:38:22
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the boys from
01:38:27
um from customs.
01:38:30
Way to go. Way to go. See you.
01:38:32
>> We're good. You're just looking at it
01:38:34
from with binoculars from 30 m away.
01:38:36
>> Exactly.
01:38:37
>> No bananas in there. You're all right.
01:38:39
>> Yeah. Wow. What are your thoughts on
01:38:41
resilience? Are you born resilient or do
01:38:44
you build it?
01:38:45
>> Both.
01:38:46
>> Yeah, definitely both.
01:38:47
>> I mean, it's like um competitiveness,
01:38:51
you know, there's there's some people
01:38:52
that are just born
01:38:55
>> with that dog.
01:38:56
>> Um but it's also it's also trainable to
01:38:59
an extent.
01:39:01
>> So, yeah, it's it's like talent, you
01:39:03
know, there's there's talent. You can
01:39:05
train it. Definitely train talent. Um
01:39:07
but, you know, there's If you don't have
01:39:10
the innate talent,
01:39:13
you're not going to make an Olympic
01:39:14
final.
01:39:15
>> You got to have the innate talent there.
01:39:18
And that's, you know, there's different
01:39:20
ways to go about that in terms of
01:39:21
attitude and uh dog and resilience and
01:39:25
things like that.
01:39:26
>> You know, you've got you got people with
01:39:27
a lot of dog but no resilience.
01:39:30
>> That's not a good thing. That's that's
01:39:31
out of balance. Um whereas you've got
01:39:34
people with
01:39:35
>> huge resilience but not a lot of talent.
01:39:38
And those people tend to train
01:39:39
themselves more at resilience because
01:39:40
they do have to be resilient,
01:39:42
>> you know. And again, and that's that's
01:39:44
that's why I let Zach get bowled by the
01:39:46
surf.
01:39:48
>> That's that's exactly where it start,
01:39:50
you know, a get some respect, but b get
01:39:53
the resilience to to cop a mouthful of
01:39:55
water and get up and and cope with it.
01:39:57
And until you've done that, you're not
01:39:59
actually safe. Doesn't matter how good a
01:40:00
swimmer you are.
01:40:02
>> Yeah. I I think a lot of parents these
01:40:03
days, and I mean, everyone's entitled to
01:40:05
raise their kids the way they want, but
01:40:06
they want to they they have this
01:40:08
unrealistic expectation that their kids
01:40:10
should be happy all the time, and they
01:40:11
want to protect them from absolutely
01:40:12
everything.
01:40:13
>> Yum. And therefore, they're depriving
01:40:15
them the opportunity to build
01:40:16
resilience. Just a thought.
01:40:18
>> Yeah. Oh, it's the old school thing. Oh,
01:40:20
no. Don't climb that tree. It's
01:40:21
dangerous.
01:40:21
>> Yeah.
01:40:22
>> Climb a tree, fall out, and learn the
01:40:24
lesson for life.
01:40:25
>> Yeah.
01:40:26
>> Um
01:40:28
Yeah. Has life seemed boring since since
01:40:31
then or what's the biggest sort of
01:40:33
challenges or obstacles you've had
01:40:34
since?
01:40:35
>> Well, it's expectations, but the short
01:40:37
answer would be yes.
01:40:39
>> It's I mean it's
01:40:42
it's an appreciation for what I don't
01:40:44
have, which is the simplicity of life
01:40:46
out there.
01:40:47
>> And um that's yeah, I can I can go and
01:40:50
get it. I can go and jump in the boat
01:40:52
and go for a paddle for, you know, a
01:40:53
weekend, whatever. That's that's fine.
01:40:55
And I should do that more.
01:40:57
>> I really should. and and I probably
01:40:59
will. Um
01:41:03
yeah, I've just got to make sure I'm fit
01:41:04
enough not not to break myself when I do
01:41:07
it.
01:41:08
>> And when when people talk to you about
01:41:09
the journey, um what do you wish that
01:41:12
they'd ask you or you know what part of
01:41:14
the story is the part that gets most
01:41:16
often overlooked?
01:41:19
>> Uh overlooked
01:41:21
it's I kind of break it down into
01:41:23
sections, right? You've got psychology,
01:41:24
you've got technology like the, you
01:41:26
know, some people are into the the maths
01:41:28
equations of the vectors and the solar
01:41:32
and, you know, that kind of stuff.
01:41:34
You've got the health side of things,
01:41:36
skin integrity. Um, you know, bacterial
01:41:41
issues. Um, you know, what did you do
01:41:43
about antibiotics? What did you have to
01:41:46
do um medically? Like you have to be
01:41:48
able to put stitches in, all kinds of
01:41:50
stuff. U inject yourself, all of that
01:41:52
kind of stuff.
01:41:53
Um,
01:41:54
>> did you need to do that?
01:41:56
>> Um,
01:41:56
>> stitches.
01:41:57
>> I didn't need to do stitches. No,
01:41:59
>> you got it wrong if you did. But you
01:42:01
need to be able to do it.
01:42:02
>> I've actually done it previously on
01:42:04
myself. So
01:42:05
>> that's that that was not an issue. But
01:42:08
um
01:42:09
>> yeah, again, you just have to be really
01:42:11
careful. Like if you're out of getting
01:42:12
in and out of the boat, you just can't
01:42:14
scratch yourself on something.
01:42:16
>> Um yeah, so there's there's a category
01:42:20
for everyone and that's how I see it.
01:42:22
There's a there's a you know what's
01:42:24
really boring to someone which might be
01:42:25
the technology is
01:42:27
>> you know there's there's an area for
01:42:29
someone everywhere and that's like I
01:42:31
said when I came in I sort of gave the
01:42:33
trip over to the general public and it's
01:42:35
it's it's theirs now so it's whatever
01:42:38
they want to take out of it so I have no
01:42:40
expectations on what anyone wants. Um
01:42:43
the blue bowl will be one of the top
01:42:47
three questions out of any school group.
01:42:50
What though?
01:42:51
>> One of the first three questions out of
01:42:53
any school group will be the blue bowl.
01:42:56
>> That's a guarantee.
01:42:57
>> Do you do you take it as like a show and
01:42:59
tell for Oh god.
01:43:00
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's always going
01:43:03
to happen. Um and and like I say, I I
01:43:06
could try and explain to you what it
01:43:08
feels like to sit on a 5 m wave, you
01:43:10
know? Uh but you're never really going
01:43:13
to know if if you've done a few things
01:43:15
similar like sailors are really
01:43:17
interested in this uh that because of
01:43:19
the you know the sea activity but
01:43:23
they're not going to know what it's like
01:43:24
to be at sea level when
01:43:26
>> when a 3 m swell comes across and caps
01:43:29
and dumps a couple of tons of water on
01:43:31
you. you know, around the world ocean
01:43:33
races, they will get closer to knowing,
01:43:35
but even then they've got gear they can
01:43:38
adjust for the conditions. Whereas in a
01:43:41
kayak, you just here it comes,
01:43:43
>> hold on.
01:43:45
>> How I mean, we've been talking about
01:43:46
this for almost two hours now. How And
01:43:48
I'm I'm I'm guessing this is quite rare
01:43:50
for you these days. How often do you
01:43:51
even think about it or talk about it?
01:43:53
>> Um, yeah, more and more rarely in the in
01:43:56
the last few years because I've I've had
01:43:57
a focus. Um, but I've sort of got my
01:44:00
head above water now. So, I'm, you know,
01:44:03
trying to get back on the horse
01:44:04
physically a little bit and um, you
01:44:06
know, just just get healthy really.
01:44:08
>> And, uh, that gives me the that that
01:44:10
includes physically, but it that
01:44:11
includes the head space as well.
01:44:13
>> Yeah.
01:44:13
>> So, no, I' I've spent quite a few years
01:44:15
not even talking about it and thinking I
01:44:18
really need to give the boat some
01:44:20
attention and do a few things to it and
01:44:23
yeah, so we've taken the cover off. So,
01:44:25
that's a start.
01:44:26
>> Are you getting itchy feet?
01:44:29
>> Never say never. Never say that
01:44:31
>> what what you what do you want to do?
01:44:33
Blue sky thinking like what are you
01:44:35
>> Well, like I said, I' I'd go tomorrow if
01:44:37
someone came to me and said, "Here's all
01:44:39
the finance you need to do this." Um,
01:44:42
I'd go tomorrow and do the South Route
01:44:44
because I know I can. And I'm
01:44:47
comfortable in those conditions and, you
01:44:49
know, there's there's other there's
01:44:50
other bits and pieces. But on the other
01:44:52
side of the coin, I'm old,
01:44:54
>> you know, in terms of trying to bite
01:44:56
that big.
01:44:58
>> So, you're 56 now.
01:44:59
>> Yep. So you're how old when you did it?
01:45:02
>> Seven years ago. Oh yeah. 49.
01:45:04
>> Yeah. 48. Yeah.
01:45:05
>> Yeah. Even that's inspiring because a
01:45:07
lot of people depending on what what age
01:45:09
you are, a lot of people think that's
01:45:10
old to be doing.
01:45:11
>> Just to get the flexibility to operate
01:45:12
inside the boat at 48 was quite
01:45:15
>> quite an achievement in it itself in and
01:45:17
of itself. It's um you know getting
01:45:20
flexibility at 48 years old. That's
01:45:21
that's tricky. M
01:45:24
>> it's interesting to me that you'd say
01:45:25
you'd do it again in a in a heartbeat if
01:45:26
money was no option because it's like um
01:45:28
if if you're doing it again, you're
01:45:30
doing it like just for you. Like you've
01:45:31
you've got nothing to prove to anybody,
01:45:32
right?
01:45:33
>> It's my happy place. I like I I love it
01:45:36
out there. Yep. Definitely happy place.
01:45:39
Um,
01:45:41
>> did you find it weird during CO how
01:45:43
everyone was all triggered about being
01:45:44
at home and getting cabin fever and the
01:45:46
isolation and
01:45:49
>> Yeah, it's just that just shake your
01:45:51
head, nod. Yeah. Yeah. Good on you.
01:45:54
>> Okay. Future go future goals.
01:45:56
>> Future goals.
01:45:58
>> Yeah. No, none at the moment. Just just
01:46:00
get it back on the back on the horse
01:46:01
physically because I haven't felt
01:46:04
healthy.
01:46:05
um you know just just and I've started
01:46:08
that ball rolling like I had a whole lot
01:46:10
of sinus issues and stuff like that. So
01:46:13
I had the surgeon you know drill me a
01:46:15
couple of new holes a few months ago and
01:46:18
and now I'm breathing like a teenager. I
01:46:20
can go for a run and nose breathe which
01:46:22
is that's just exciting to me you know
01:46:27
it's just like oh that's exciting. So,
01:46:29
uh, yeah, just getting back on the
01:46:31
horse. Like I went for a I went for a
01:46:33
60k ride a couple of weeks ago, you
01:46:35
know, just just doing stuff like that.
01:46:38
Um, and and just being able to, you
01:46:41
know, I my young fella's 15. We're going
01:46:43
to we're going to go skiing
01:46:45
in two or three weeks. I I need to I
01:46:48
need to do some squats.
01:46:50
I'm just not going to be able to pound
01:46:52
the hill all day. I'm going to want to
01:46:53
go into the cafe. Well, I'm not going to
01:46:55
want to come in the cafe, but um
01:46:56
>> Oh, you think it's expensive to cross
01:46:58
the tasine in a kayak?
01:47:00
>> Try buying a bread roll at the cafe on
01:47:02
the mountain.
01:47:02
>> Exactly. But, you know, just just I want
01:47:05
to be able to handle that all day with a
01:47:06
young fell and and and and have fun, you
01:47:09
know.
01:47:09
>> Yeah.
01:47:10
>> Um and and say, "Right, mate, there's a
01:47:12
mountain. We need to go up it now
01:47:15
>> uh on the way down." Or, you know, just
01:47:17
just do stuff like that. Live live how
01:47:20
I've lived most of my life and and show
01:47:22
them that that's that's the way to do
01:47:23
it. If you see a mountain, go do it. But
01:47:25
don't, you know, go get the map first,
01:47:28
figure out your plan, get some
01:47:30
redundancy, then go do it. Don't just go
01:47:33
do it.
01:47:33
>> Yeah.
01:47:34
>> So, yeah.
01:47:35
>> It's really good to hear that there's um
01:47:37
stuff that you're excited by cuz Yeah.
01:47:39
Part of me wondered if you go go through
01:47:40
something like this, which you've been
01:47:41
through, which you can't it's not an
01:47:43
experience that you can really share
01:47:44
with anyone. I I wondered if there'd be
01:47:47
um it'd be hard to find that sort of
01:47:48
excitement threshold in anything in life
01:47:50
again.
01:47:52
Um, yeah. Yeah, it that's true. But, you
01:47:56
know, I could go bush for a week and and
01:47:58
get the
01:48:00
get the philosophical side again. Or I
01:48:02
could go go out on the sea. But there's
01:48:04
there's always bits and pieces, you
01:48:06
know, like running up to the top of a
01:48:08
mountain. When you've run to the top of
01:48:09
a mountain and you're standing on top,
01:48:12
that sensation is is really good. Um,
01:48:15
and that's kind of some of the sensation
01:48:17
you get out there. Yeah, it was a little
01:48:18
more, but you can find it in other ways.
01:48:20
M
01:48:20
>> yeah, for sure. Like I I'm amping to get
01:48:23
back to Europe. I want to go up those,
01:48:25
you know, I want to bike up 20ks worth
01:48:27
of mountain, you know, or or go running
01:48:29
up, you know, some some really big
01:48:31
mountains. Um but we've got them in the
01:48:33
South Island, so you know,
01:48:35
>> um you know, we're going to be doing
01:48:37
that in a few weeks.
01:48:39
>> Jeez, you you you're built different,
01:48:40
aren't you?
01:48:42
>> Yeah, I know. Is is um is Zach, your
01:48:46
son, proud of you? Does he sort of have
01:48:48
an appreciation for what you've done?
01:48:50
>> Uh, you'd have to ask him. Kind of a I
01:48:54
mean, he's he's t teenage boy,
01:48:57
>> whatever, that.
01:48:58
>> Yeah. Um, I I I think he is proud. It's
01:49:02
he's still he still hasn't read the
01:49:05
book. Um, I don't want him to read the
01:49:07
book until he feels like reading the
01:49:09
book.
01:49:09
>> Um, not that that's really going to
01:49:12
change a lot for him. Um, yeah. Yeah, he
01:49:16
certainly feels the pressure of not just
01:49:17
the pedal, but my past. So, you know, he
01:49:20
hates the fact I can get on a bike and
01:49:22
still beat him. I shouldn't I'm old. I
01:49:24
shouldn't be able to do that.
01:49:27
Um, so he's just like, "Oh, I should."
01:49:29
And he's he can swim faster than me now,
01:49:31
which is he's,
01:49:33
>> you know, is great. Those those are
01:49:35
really good milestones, you know, and um
01:49:37
>> it's great, but also a humbling day when
01:49:38
it happens.
01:49:40
>> Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I did I
01:49:43
did nothing to stop it. I didn't get
01:49:44
back in the pool for 5 minutes to try
01:49:46
and stretch it out, although I would
01:49:48
probably have if I had time.
01:49:50
>> Um, but you know, he's going great. He's
01:49:53
starting to realize himself. And it it's
01:49:56
it's kind of good that I didn't have the
01:49:57
media profile and that that possibly
01:49:59
would have more overshadowed it, but
01:50:01
he's he's his own person. He's nothing
01:50:04
like me. Um, I mean, he's got a few
01:50:06
traits and whatnot, but um, yeah,
01:50:09
hopefully there's there's not a lot of
01:50:10
pressure there. be a good good question
01:50:12
for someone else to ask him.
01:50:14
>> Yeah, I'm I'm sure he's inspired because
01:50:16
to your you know, dad's just add. But
01:50:18
but he because he knows you as just a
01:50:20
human being, it just goes to show that
01:50:22
whatever he puts his mind to regardless
01:50:24
of how huge it is, it can be done.
01:50:27
>> Yeah, I think he's he's getting there on
01:50:28
that. And because I'm trying to have him
01:50:30
live like that, it's like, okay, what do
01:50:32
you want to do, you know, academically
01:50:34
or or whatever. Um, but in terms of him
01:50:38
being inspired, I I think it's more of a
01:50:40
case of cuz when he was, you know, when
01:50:42
he was six and we had a 20 m race across
01:50:46
the beach, I only let him win on
01:50:48
occasion.
01:50:50
And he's like,
01:50:52
he's like, "Oh, no, dad can just kick my
01:50:54
ass at everything, so I'm not going to
01:50:56
bother."
01:50:57
>> Um, but he's starting, you know, he's
01:50:59
starting to give me a bump on the way
01:51:00
past now, which is really cool. So,
01:51:02
maybe that's changed a bit. I don't know
01:51:04
whether it's inspiration.
01:51:05
>> You You got to keep them humble when
01:51:06
they're young, don't you? You just
01:51:08
remind them of who who's the top dog.
01:51:09
>> Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, learning to
01:51:13
lose is better than learning to win,
01:51:14
right?
01:51:15
>> Yeah.
01:51:15
>> Um, you know, so and and actually that
01:51:19
four, five, six age is the best age, I
01:51:21
believe, to learn that,
01:51:23
>> you know, get
01:51:25
>> get your get your ass kicked a couple of
01:51:27
times in in some way or another. It's a
01:51:29
good thing because you've got to get up
01:51:32
>> and you learn that it's not a good
01:51:33
feeling and that you should do something
01:51:34
about it if you don't want to experience
01:51:36
that as much.
01:51:36
>> Yeah. Yeah.
01:51:37
>> Are you proud of yourself?
01:51:40
>> Uh,
01:51:43
yes. I mean, are there things I could
01:51:44
have done better? Absolutely. Um, not
01:51:47
just from a campaign point of view, but
01:51:50
you know, I'm like everyone else with
01:51:51
relationships and problems and stress
01:51:54
and all of that. I mean, that's that's
01:51:56
one of the things that was beautiful out
01:51:57
there. didn't stress me. Not not in the
01:51:59
least.
01:52:00
>> Uh because it's all very very
01:52:02
predictable. But you know, once you're
01:52:04
back in real life, there are other
01:52:06
>> stresses in life. So,
01:52:09
>> uh from that side of things, I've I've
01:52:10
got just as much to to work on as
01:52:12
everybody else. I'm no no better or
01:52:14
worse. Um proud of it, absolutely. Um
01:52:18
but proud of it because you think it's
01:52:22
cool? Not really. I'm I'm proud of it
01:52:24
because it I did what I I set out to to
01:52:29
do journey-wise
01:52:31
>> and um you know I it was my experience.
01:52:34
I pushed myself. I I learned things and
01:52:37
that's that was just Yeah. Yeah.
01:52:39
Absolutely.
01:52:40
>> I I I just think it's cool because um
01:52:42
like physically and mentally it's just
01:52:44
something that I couldn't fathom doing
01:52:46
you myself. It just seems crazy to me.
01:52:49
>> Yeah. Yeah. And the fact that you
01:52:51
demystified it today and you know talked
01:52:53
about it so sort of methodically um
01:52:56
about how it wasn't Yeah. I wondered if
01:52:59
it was like when you took off if it was
01:53:00
like a 50-50 chance you're going to make
01:53:02
it or not but
01:53:02
>> Yeah. No, it's I mean it's absolutely
01:53:05
empirical. Everything is empirical. The
01:53:07
way we operate, how we did things
01:53:08
empirical and to the point where you
01:53:11
know it's like a runner. You get I put
01:53:13
everybody on a spectrum. It's like being
01:53:15
a sound mixer. Um, you get a runner.
01:53:18
You've got the runner who goes for a
01:53:19
two-hour run and gets back at 155 and
01:53:22
goes, "No, I've got to go for two
01:53:23
hours." And they run around in circles
01:53:25
in front of their driveway.
01:53:27
And then you get the runner that goes
01:53:28
out without a watch and goes, "Oh,
01:53:31
couple hours will be good today. Hour
01:53:33
and a half, I'm done."
01:53:34
>> Yeah. So, everyone's on a spectrum in
01:53:36
between there. And so, I say always when
01:53:40
you when you pick a coach, if you're
01:53:41
here on the spectrum, try and pick a
01:53:43
coach that's slightly different. So, if
01:53:45
you're on the more relaxed end, you need
01:53:47
to be taught how to be more empirical,
01:53:50
uh, more scientific. If you're on the if
01:53:52
you're on the rigid end, you need to be
01:53:56
taught how to, you know,
01:53:58
>> ride the bike in a beautiful way. Um,
01:54:01
get those sensations. So, uh, that's
01:54:05
that's a balance that I had to
01:54:06
constantly remind myself to do, you
01:54:08
know, stop, smell the roses, actually
01:54:12
look again at the sunset. soak it in. Um
01:54:16
really really enjoy every single part
01:54:18
and I tried to also do that with you
01:54:20
know even the media which was not my
01:54:22
thing. So your strongest ability in life
01:54:25
is your ability to change your attitude
01:54:27
to something.
01:54:28
>> You know if if you don't like maths at
01:54:30
school you're not going to do well.
01:54:31
You're not going to do as well as your
01:54:33
capacity enables you to do. So if you
01:54:35
have the ability to change your attitude
01:54:37
to that then yeah. So, in that respect,
01:54:41
you know, I'm uh I'm I'm I've got a lot
01:54:44
of work to do as same as everybody else,
01:54:46
but
01:54:47
>> I want to
01:54:50
I I want to get back on the horse in
01:54:52
terms of those sensations.
01:54:55
>> Um but yeah, I'm I'm not perfect at it
01:54:57
either, but I definitely was out there.
01:55:00
Yeah.
01:55:01
>> Yeah. You've done it. You've done
01:55:03
something amazing. It's incredible. Hey,
01:55:05
Scott Donaldson, thank you so much for
01:55:06
coming on the podcast today. Um, I've
01:55:09
really enjoyed it. You you you hate you
01:55:11
hate media stuff. How's this been for
01:55:12
you?
01:55:13
>> Has this been okay?
01:55:14
>> Oh, refreshing. It's been a long time.
01:55:16
So, it's been, you know, it's been nice
01:55:18
and and the the no format. Like, if I
01:55:20
was sitting there listening to this, I I
01:55:23
would probably think it's quite boring.
01:55:25
I don't I don't know. I don't know how I
01:55:27
sound, but um yeah, it's it's been kind
01:55:31
of fun to just remember it a bit.
01:55:32
>> Yeah. I know. I like this about long
01:55:34
form podcast. Like, someone can listen
01:55:35
to it and if they get bored, they can
01:55:37
it's like a book. You pick it up. If if
01:55:38
you're not enjoying it, put it down. If
01:55:40
you're enjoying it, you can pause it,
01:55:42
get back to it or or read it all slash
01:55:45
listen to it in one go.
01:55:46
>> Yeah. It was like when I wrote the
01:55:47
process of writing the book, which was
01:55:49
good process, but you know, they were
01:55:51
they were like the publishers, you've
01:55:53
got to put some of your history and I'm
01:55:56
I get bored when I read someone's
01:55:57
history. I want to get to the guts of
01:55:59
it. But I had to do the history bit, you
01:56:01
know. So, yeah, it's it's good. We
01:56:03
didn't go into too much history.
01:56:05
>> Yeah. Yeah. I I tried to Yeah. You wrote
01:56:06
a book called Relentless with um an old
01:56:08
mate of mine, Steve Kgallan.
01:56:10
>> Yes.
01:56:10
>> Um I tried to track it down um but I
01:56:12
couldn't couldn't track down a copy, but
01:56:14
um
01:56:14
>> Well, I'll get you one.
01:56:15
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, your son's not going
01:56:17
to read it. Give me that.
01:56:18
>> Yeah, I will give you that copy. Yeah.
01:56:19
>> Hey, Scott, thank you so much for coming
01:56:21
on the podcast, mate.
01:56:22
>> Yeah. Great to be here. Appreciate it.