00:00:00
[Music]
00:00:27
Simon Bridges welcome why is so good to
00:00:30
be with you I feel like um I feel very
00:00:32
privileged I just can you like I listen
00:00:35
to the Martin henerson one you did a
00:00:37
little while ago and um you just started
00:00:40
by gushing about him and how handsome he
00:00:42
was and how there'd never been a bad
00:00:44
photo so if you could just say a few of
00:00:45
those things about me as well I'd love
00:00:47
that I cannot
00:00:49
lie
00:00:51
you no no no but I am a fan of yours
00:00:54
like I I I met you for the first time um
00:00:57
I think this is when you were leader of
00:00:58
the national party and um it was just
00:01:00
happened to be in the bathroom at spark
00:01:02
Arena the night of the music um a mutual
00:01:04
friend of ours Morgan introduced us and
00:01:06
um I thought he's he's a really nice guy
00:01:09
Simon Bridges thank you um and it
00:01:11
reminded me of a quote from Michelle
00:01:13
Obama I'm probably going to [Â __Â ] this
00:01:14
one up um but she said something like um
00:01:17
people are always harder to dislike up
00:01:19
close yes you dislike me you dislike me
00:01:23
from it no no no I think that's right
00:01:25
and and that's certainly true politician
00:01:27
I mean we just talking about it off here
00:01:28
you know it's quite polarized ing right
00:01:30
you you because you have to put your
00:01:32
view out there and you know in any given
00:01:35
day if your view is X there'll be 50%
00:01:38
who have a view of why right so so
00:01:40
that's always going to be um challenging
00:01:43
I think I remember those the VA Awards
00:01:45
is that what they called or
00:01:47
whatever VM I remember being with those
00:01:50
they take particular courage because any
00:01:52
kind of entertainment event if you're a
00:01:54
center right politician you know like
00:01:57
73% of them freaking hate you right and
00:02:00
they going to come up to you and have
00:02:02
you on and you know about your policy on
00:02:04
this or that it's it's amazing how
00:02:06
political kind of yeah the creative
00:02:09
sectors are so um I I went in with
00:02:11
trepidation and my my St proof this yes
00:02:15
and my fears were um were not misplaced
00:02:17
you get you know there's some who are
00:02:19
like you who actually very friendly and
00:02:21
take you as you are and there's some who
00:02:23
just want to hate
00:02:25
you that's not that's no lie I remember
00:02:28
it well you're a brave man going to that
00:02:30
hey um first of all how are you you've
00:02:32
recently had a scooter accident oh well
00:02:34
that has been um that hasn't been ideal
00:02:37
so I'll show you I mean obviously the
00:02:39
there's a big scar there on my left um
00:02:41
wrist and yeah it was um it wasn't ideal
00:02:47
basically what happened this was a
00:02:49
daytime accident so you no alcohol
00:02:50
involved or anything no which is a
00:02:52
scarless accusation that many people
00:02:54
have level leveled as if they know me or
00:02:56
something no I was actually it was very
00:02:59
Earnest I was going between meetings and
00:03:00
in my defense you know like I'm
00:03:03
47 so you know re to be middle-aged kind
00:03:05
of a guy but there's only three raised
00:03:07
ways to get around our city in Oakland
00:03:09
you walk and then you got hot and sweaty
00:03:11
and you're late you Uber um or you
00:03:14
scooter right so I I was scootering
00:03:16
between meetings my cardinal sin was I
00:03:21
um it was it was kyber pass Simon Street
00:03:25
I had a bunch of papers in one hand so I
00:03:27
was kind of trying to Freestyle with one
00:03:29
with one one hand and the other with the
00:03:32
papers and then I hit this dip which to
00:03:34
be fair I've gone back and looked at it
00:03:35
wasn't much of a dip and I flew man but
00:03:38
God I feel um I feel really lucky like I
00:03:43
I excuse me I F this this rest right
00:03:46
like it was it was a jigsa puzzle by the
00:03:48
end and the the surgeon and someone were
00:03:50
pretty impressed by what I've done but
00:03:52
actually I hit my face if you can see on
00:03:53
its uh the side that that dark patch
00:03:56
there is you know but I I feel deep
00:03:59
fortunate that I didn't um get any form
00:04:02
of brain um injury I was probably a bit
00:04:04
concussed but um you know I can I still
00:04:08
know I'm in a room with you and your
00:04:10
name's Dom and you know but truthfully
00:04:13
like a lot of people having scooter
00:04:16
accidents and the surgeon was saying a
00:04:18
lot of what I had but a lot of head
00:04:20
stuff as well so like I kind of I don't
00:04:22
want to say I feel like it happened for
00:04:24
a reason but it it did literally and
00:04:27
metaphorically shake me up and make me
00:04:29
think oh I I'm glad I'm alive I'm not
00:04:33
that I wasn't not glad but I'm glad I've
00:04:35
got kids I'm glad I had a wife who still
00:04:37
talks to me you know and some of these
00:04:40
things you know I'm I'm fundamentally
00:04:43
healthy you know I have some money in my
00:04:46
pocket so I feel like yeah I don't want
00:04:48
to be too but I feel like it's sort of
00:04:49
happened for a reason and it's been it's
00:04:53
been really good for me but my my wrist
00:04:55
is still poked so every morning and
00:04:57
evening I do these kind of uncomfortable
00:04:59
exercises rehab yeah and did you um cuz
00:05:02
you did an Instagram post from um
00:05:04
hospital and you you mentioned the um
00:05:07
the the family or the couple that um
00:05:09
came to your Aid did you ever track them
00:05:11
down no I mean they were lovely and I
00:05:12
was like um cuz cuz when I hit the
00:05:14
concrete I had a little sleep right and
00:05:17
then I sort of woke up you just out cold
00:05:19
like whether it was out cold or I was
00:05:22
just like but I knew I couldn't get up
00:05:24
and then I just sort of my eyes shut and
00:05:26
I kind of and then when I sort of came
00:05:27
to I mean I don't think I was out long
00:05:30
um this wonderful Pacifica family I mean
00:05:34
I think Samoan family were there and
00:05:36
they were helping me they called the
00:05:38
ambulance which never came by the way
00:05:39
but anyway um so at the end I had to
00:05:42
ring my wife and I was like you're going
00:05:43
to be really angry with me you know have
00:05:44
me telling me not to go on these
00:05:46
scooters um but I was I was poach right
00:05:49
like I I um and then I sort of I I
00:05:51
wandered into the kind of the business
00:05:54
building near us and I got blood all
00:05:57
over there probably for what I lied down
00:05:59
and I just couldn't get back but they
00:06:00
waited with me I mean they're amazing
00:06:02
just like um Angels or something right
00:06:05
just here to help me I don't know what I
00:06:06
would have done without them but I I
00:06:09
tried to get at the time in my half kind
00:06:11
of delirious St I was trying to get
00:06:12
their phone number but they weren't
00:06:13
having a bar of it they kind of but they
00:06:15
stayed for the you know it was probably
00:06:16
half an hour and that the older man was
00:06:19
um old man his wife and his daughter and
00:06:21
the old man was sort of had his arm
00:06:22
around me and you know it makes me S
00:06:25
emotional I hav thought about it
00:06:26
actually much you know just how kind
00:06:28
they were you know I suppose the
00:06:29
question
00:06:30
would we be that kind I like to think I
00:06:32
would but um I'd probably be sitting
00:06:34
there you know it's been 15 minutes I've
00:06:35
got to go to a meeting you know um
00:06:38
truthfully like I hate to say that but
00:06:39
you know I feel like but they just had
00:06:41
all the time in the world for it and um
00:06:44
in the end my wife came she was
00:06:46
angry and apoplectic and she did take me
00:06:49
to the A&E at um at the city hospital so
00:06:53
yeah they were they were Absolute Angels
00:06:55
yeah that is fantastic hey that is cool
00:06:57
cuz I I yeah I I was about to say I
00:07:00
think most people would do exactly the
00:07:01
same thing if you saw someone in but the
00:07:03
reality is it's like yeah you'd be
00:07:05
looking at your watch I would do it like
00:07:07
you know I in my defense having said
00:07:09
that I recall when we went for walk
00:07:11
around not too far from actually with
00:07:12
the scooter accident happened the domain
00:07:14
uh one day and a guy had Elder elderly
00:07:18
Indian man had sipped on the
00:07:20
cobblestones or something and um kind of
00:07:22
his face quite badly right and he was
00:07:24
asking us where the hospital was right
00:07:26
and we thought ah bug of this we've got
00:07:28
to take him right so we got him in the
00:07:30
car and um and and took him and took him
00:07:33
into the A&E and so on and and looked
00:07:35
after him and and you know I so so
00:07:39
actually I know and the I've passed the
00:07:41
tested level right when it's when it's
00:07:44
happened um and you know in a busy will
00:07:47
we I think we got to make sure we do
00:07:49
pass that little life test yeah yeah
00:07:52
100% well I'm glad you're okay are you
00:07:54
scooter shy now were you go on scooters
00:07:56
I know you I read an article a couple of
00:07:58
years ago when you first
00:08:01
oh no I was spending I was spending a
00:08:03
lot of money a week on these scooters
00:08:05
right you think I'm joking like a
00:08:06
shitload of money um but like well
00:08:09
because cuz like my office is up one end
00:08:12
of Simon street I'm I'm constantly
00:08:13
having to be down to commercial Bay to
00:08:15
meet with corporates and all these sort
00:08:16
of things and um it's like how do you
00:08:18
get down there it's whatever it is 20
00:08:20
minutes walk it's like 6 minutes um
00:08:23
scooter so I was using them a lot um the
00:08:27
honest truth is yesterday which I
00:08:29
haven't before but I was just my wrist
00:08:30
is starting to get a bit bit I've got a
00:08:32
bit of flexibility yesterday I walked
00:08:34
past a beam cuz it was a beam sorry beam
00:08:37
um not your fault my fault it was the it
00:08:39
was the middle-aged theid on it not not
00:08:41
the scooter but I saw her and I thought
00:08:43
[Â __Â ] I'd be a lot quicker if I just got
00:08:45
on this right now and then I saw an
00:08:47
image of my wife and I was like no I'm
00:08:49
not getting I promised her I won't do it
00:08:52
again right more scared of nly than the
00:08:54
scir oh I actually think that's true and
00:08:56
the other thing is like you know and I'm
00:08:57
not I'm ashamed to say this and I didn't
00:08:59
say like the mainstream media were after
00:09:01
me and at the time and I wouldn't do
00:09:03
interviews CU I know I'd get pillared
00:09:04
for this and rightly so but like I
00:09:06
wasn't wearing a helmet and I'm not
00:09:07
going to wear a helmet cuz you know
00:09:10
you're all right with your short trim
00:09:12
but you know I've got lengthy here at
00:09:14
the moment I don't want to um I don't
00:09:16
want to get helmet here so so look on
00:09:19
the basis of that I'm not going back on
00:09:22
one yeah oh fair enough what by the way
00:09:24
what is since you bought it up what is
00:09:26
happening with you here what is is this
00:09:27
like a mid Cris no cuz I've about seven
00:09:30
of those right so that's it's it's just
00:09:32
messing with people right I just love
00:09:34
the fact that it's basically a form of
00:09:36
trolling I think it actually is because
00:09:38
I basically uh you know so my you know I
00:09:41
got some responsible jobs in my life and
00:09:43
I love the fact that you know I I um you
00:09:47
know tonight I've got the AGM of the
00:09:49
ockland business chamber right I love
00:09:51
the fact that like 47% that's a
00:09:54
statistical true fact by the way 47% of
00:09:57
those people as will be like what is he
00:09:59
doing with us here right you know I love
00:10:02
that I like I love that like half like
00:10:04
let him be free to have us here you know
00:10:07
and and then there's this other half of
00:10:08
like and and maybe it's a maybe it's a
00:10:10
throwback from politics where you needed
00:10:12
people talking about you I I I kind of
00:10:15
like that in my own like not out there
00:10:17
in the real world but in my own little
00:10:19
circles it definitely creates a
00:10:21
controversy and I like that it's a
00:10:24
talking point as well it's a talking I
00:10:25
am getting a hicc out at the end of this
00:10:27
month by the way it's just that um you
00:10:29
you know where it cost a living crisis I
00:10:31
go I go to an expensive hairdresser you
00:10:33
don't want to do it too often yeah but
00:10:35
the money you're saving on scooters at
00:10:36
the moment though corre um hey
00:10:38
congratulations by the way you've at the
00:10:39
time we're recording this you've just
00:10:40
got a new job chairperson of the NZ K
00:10:45
yes um have you started this job or well
00:10:48
funny you should say I mean all these
00:10:51
people out there think this is some sort
00:10:53
of fancy cure it's it's it's real hard
00:10:55
work right so much of the weekend was
00:10:58
taken up with going through the the
00:11:00
papers for our first board meeting and
00:11:03
um you know so it's I don't know that I
00:11:05
would say it's going to be like
00:11:06
massively enjoyable but it is an amazing
00:11:09
challenge you know this is a this is an
00:11:11
outfit that that I was going to say
00:11:13
spends but a better word is invests like
00:11:16
several billion bucks for you and me
00:11:18
every year um controls State Highway
00:11:22
Network it has a big influence on what
00:11:24
local government does around the local
00:11:26
roads and the potholes that we've been
00:11:27
hearing about and all that stuff so you
00:11:30
know that I'm a sucker for punishment I
00:11:32
like to be busy and have something
00:11:34
that's significant and so this is this
00:11:37
is you know one big thing like that
00:11:39
where you know hopefully and this I know
00:11:42
this gets a bit Grand and probably makes
00:11:44
me sound like a wanker but you know
00:11:46
hopefully we we we you know I'll look
00:11:48
back on that and be able to say yeah you
00:11:52
know we over that three six year period
00:11:55
whatever it is um you know we we did
00:11:57
some amazing things you know we got on
00:11:59
with some infrastructure that meant that
00:12:01
you know people could get around Dom
00:12:03
could you know get to his you know mat's
00:12:06
Place quicker and safer and all of those
00:12:08
things so yeah I'm very early but I'm I
00:12:12
I'm you want to make a difference I'm
00:12:13
looking I want to make a difference as
00:12:14
cheesy as that sounds and that's always
00:12:16
been there and that's that's something
00:12:18
that that makes me you know drives me
00:12:21
I'm not someone who and I fear and I I I
00:12:24
admire people who can I I don't switch
00:12:26
off easy I I I you know I need
00:12:29
going on um otherwise I'd probably have
00:12:32
to think about life and family I'm
00:12:35
joking you know so I like to keep my
00:12:37
busy my brain distracted and um and this
00:12:40
is one heck of a distraction yeah I you
00:12:44
you say you're kidding but I feel like
00:12:45
that was um you reflected cuz I did
00:12:47
breakfast radio for like 30 years and it
00:12:49
was a very very busy job um and I I feel
00:12:52
like on reflection I keept myself as
00:12:54
busy as possible so I didn't have to
00:12:56
face my own demons in a way yeah I think
00:12:58
that I think that's just me no I think
00:13:00
that's I do I do try I think hopefully
00:13:04
all of that is true like if we're being
00:13:06
really honest about I think uh I think
00:13:09
hopefully though like I do try so you
00:13:11
know we're recording this reasonbly
00:13:13
early in the morning you know I've
00:13:14
already up been up for a few hours and
00:13:16
and I I do try to I'm a morning guy I do
00:13:20
I do try to have a bit of a period of
00:13:22
you know whether some people would call
00:13:23
it meditation some people call it prayer
00:13:25
some people call what but I TR try and
00:13:27
have a period at the start of a day day
00:13:29
hopefully my children haven't woken up
00:13:32
um and you know where I can um be still
00:13:35
and and maybe think and not not Grand
00:13:38
thoughts but just you know maybe be
00:13:39
grateful about what's um so hopefully
00:13:42
I'm getting better at that with my long
00:13:44
shaggy hair that's polarizing and my
00:13:46
broken wrist in like 15 places and so on
00:13:49
yeah the next step is going to be like
00:13:51
beads like beads I would like a dud this
00:13:54
been I would except you'd have something
00:13:57
more to just completely take the but
00:13:59
maybe I need them to cover that risk but
00:14:01
but I totally would like I don't know we
00:14:04
just my kids and I just been watching
00:14:05
like um he's another polarizing figure
00:14:07
in Britain like but Jeremy Clarkson you
00:14:09
know the car dude and his you know after
00:14:11
Top Gear he's got whatever his one is
00:14:13
called and oh clar's F it's great oh
00:14:15
claron Farm is amazing but he's got like
00:14:17
19 man beads going on it's like it's and
00:14:20
I kind of works for an older guy so you
00:14:24
know if you see me rocking the beads
00:14:25
once in a while yeah hey um let's just
00:14:27
go back to that morning morning routine
00:14:29
so yeah we are recording this at 8:00
00:14:30
a.m. on a Tuesday morning and I I I
00:14:32
fully respect that I know you're a busy
00:14:33
guy so it's early for me but um I I love
00:14:36
that but I wanted to ask you yeah more
00:14:38
about your morning routine so do you you
00:14:41
are you a cold shower guy or anything I
00:14:44
I I would be but I'm probably not um I'm
00:14:47
I'm probably not I was going to say
00:14:48
manly but that's old fashion manly
00:14:50
enough for that um I like the idea of
00:14:52
those ice buckets like if I had ice
00:14:55
baths I should say like I feel like cuz
00:14:57
I get a bit of the Restless Leg in the
00:14:58
night you know and so I'm taking the
00:15:00
magnesium pills for that I feel like
00:15:02
that should be a Mike hosking ad do 800
00:15:06
magnesia But but so but but I um you
00:15:11
know I don't I don't if it was off here
00:15:13
or on here but we know we were talking
00:15:14
maybe off here about psychologist I've
00:15:16
never been to psychologist and you know
00:15:18
kudos to those who do and you know get
00:15:20
help from but but I have a little bit
00:15:23
over my I suppose life probably more
00:15:25
more funly enough post parliament I
00:15:27
needed it in Parliament but most
00:15:29
parament head you know the odd business
00:15:30
coach all kind of people and and a great
00:15:33
one that you know I've done a bit with
00:15:35
you know she talks about how we kind of
00:15:38
really only have two or three intense
00:15:41
hours of power right a day we think
00:15:43
we're amazing for like 12 hours and we
00:15:46
can do all of these things and so you
00:15:48
don't and um and and for me I try and
00:15:52
have that in the morning you know so
00:15:53
hopefully that's not just doing what I
00:15:55
do for the rest of the day which is
00:15:57
replying to 109 email mes or you know
00:16:00
it's it's something that's focused and
00:16:03
um and and sort of and maybe you know
00:16:08
this word means different maybe a bit
00:16:09
spiritual you know so so there's that
00:16:11
you know getting up sometimes it's I I
00:16:13
want I don't want to sound like a hero
00:16:15
like I I need my sleep and I think most
00:16:17
people do but but I don't go to bed too
00:16:19
late it might be five someday sometimes
00:16:21
if I've got a lot on might be earlier
00:16:23
sometimes spit later you know can be six
00:16:25
um get up um I've got a comfy little
00:16:28
kind of uh to call it a library would be
00:16:32
you know way too Grand but like little
00:16:34
book area with a nice comfy chair that's
00:16:37
got all these felic fruit on it um that
00:16:39
Natalie must have bought somewhere in a
00:16:41
market or something and uh and and I'll
00:16:43
sit in that I might read a bit um you
00:16:47
know might think a bit I'll have a
00:16:49
coffee um and then you know
00:16:51
eventually one of the kids will wake up
00:16:54
early and put on a television annoy me
00:16:56
um or an iPad or something and then and
00:16:59
there more of them and then they'll
00:17:00
little turn up but so that's nothing too
00:17:02
exciting but I think I think and I think
00:17:04
routines are good aren't they like um oh
00:17:06
the best yeah I think abely I and maybe
00:17:08
for men even more than women but maybe
00:17:11
all of us I think routines are and and I
00:17:13
think while I'm on a role you know we
00:17:15
live in a world where everyone's about
00:17:17
multitasking I just think one simple
00:17:20
thing you know like reading a uh you
00:17:22
know a poem from somewhere or you know a
00:17:25
book you're reading about something
00:17:26
that's got no instrumental value to you
00:17:29
that's really good for your
00:17:30
soul I love that you are religious a so
00:17:34
it's you're PR you're practicing of
00:17:36
gratitude or whatever is is it sort of
00:17:38
like a religious thing or I think so I
00:17:40
mean I think you know um religion's got
00:17:43
a dirty sort of name these days I think
00:17:45
we live in such a material world
00:17:47
physical world right um and and I think
00:17:51
in New Zealand that's but you know for
00:17:53
me look I am a practicing Christian you
00:17:55
know I'm I'm Church attendance isn't
00:17:57
amazing at the moment and but it doesn't
00:18:00
matter for me I mean it's it's uh you
00:18:03
know my father was a clergyman and so
00:18:06
you know I think it's always sort of
00:18:08
there right um and you know I know
00:18:10
people some have had bad experiences
00:18:11
that and and for some people it's you
00:18:13
know it's something entirely different
00:18:14
and I get that but I think what you in
00:18:17
politics and actually my business life
00:18:18
now what you learn is um we kiwis yeah
00:18:22
we are particularly SE secular lot but
00:18:24
you know we've got a lot of people
00:18:26
whether it's from India or China or
00:18:28
other parts of Asia
00:18:29
they come in with a lot of spiritualism
00:18:31
and I think I think we miss a bit of
00:18:33
that in our society and and and like
00:18:35
even this conversation right I'm
00:18:37
conscious there'll be people listening
00:18:39
right now [Â __Â ] that turn the the thing
00:18:41
off right cuz cuz cuz even the word
00:18:43
they're not sort of into but I think I
00:18:45
think that's a I think that's a poor
00:18:48
sort of sign actually Society I think
00:18:51
for some people I say it might just be
00:18:53
maybe you don't want the connotations
00:18:55
maybe it's meditation maybe it's you
00:18:57
know your yoga or whatever but I do
00:18:59
think those things where it's you know
00:19:01
gratitude a sense of some purpose higher
00:19:04
than yourself more than just yourself um
00:19:08
I I think that is important but I just
00:19:10
can I just put a disclaimer on this cuz
00:19:12
man some people are saying there this
00:19:14
guy does he think he's you know M mandhi
00:19:17
or something I am not right like I get
00:19:20
[Â __Â ] wrong every single day in the most
00:19:23
catastrophic ways right um so I just
00:19:26
want to put that disclaimer on things oh
00:19:28
no but we we all do that's part of The
00:19:30
Human Experience isn't it [Â __Â ] up
00:19:32
time and time again totally yeah totally
00:19:35
um let's talk about the is so so what I
00:19:37
know about you is you were um head boy
00:19:39
at school yes um you you played the
00:19:41
drums you're a drummer yes um what about
00:19:43
earlier than that any any sort of
00:19:45
cultural links you you are the um the
00:19:47
first moldi leader of a main political
00:19:49
party but I feel like you were sort of
00:19:51
disattached from totally from your your
00:19:53
moldi culture oh you know I think you
00:19:55
know way you were raised I think my
00:19:56
story is a very common one right at some
00:19:59
we all think we're special but you know
00:20:01
Mari dad you know white blonde mom off a
00:20:05
dairy farm uh father's family you know
00:20:08
pretty dysfunctional mom's much more
00:20:10
sort of you know functional um you know
00:20:14
and and on the the ma side of things you
00:20:16
know grew up in West ockland look we my
00:20:20
father he grew up in Hamilton his mother
00:20:22
you know was straight off of M but you
00:20:25
know he learned very you know clearly in
00:20:29
fact from his mother you know you don't
00:20:31
want anything to do with this mie stuff
00:20:33
you're never going to get anywhere with
00:20:35
that you know don't even you want to try
00:20:37
it in any way you can be a white malie
00:20:40
you know if I could put it that way I
00:20:41
mean I'm just you know I'm not saying
00:20:43
this right or probably wrong but how it
00:20:45
was right so we grew up with no sense of
00:20:48
it like I and and I think something
00:20:50
that's quite fascinating for me
00:20:52
today is um I've come to terms with all
00:20:56
that I think I have a much greater sense
00:20:58
my [Â __Â ] Papa and some of these things
00:21:00
but don't get me wrong you know tomorrow
00:21:02
I'll have to do a Mii [Â __Â ] toe um you
00:21:05
know walking into nzta look that will be
00:21:07
somewhat uncomfortable for me right
00:21:08
because I don't speak to Roo and you
00:21:10
know it's not a natural position for me
00:21:13
but I think I think something I've come
00:21:15
to term with but as leader of the
00:21:16
national party I had to come to terms
00:21:18
with is I'd always fundamentally just
00:21:20
sort I'm a um I'm a white guy right you
00:21:23
know I'm a white guy um you know this is
00:21:27
you know
00:21:28
guys over there that's they good guys
00:21:30
you know my class you know um but that's
00:21:33
not me but I had come to terms with the
00:21:35
fact that in truth a lot of people my
00:21:39
skin is is not light um uh you know this
00:21:44
you know a bunch of things about me a
00:21:45
lot of people perceive me as Mai right
00:21:48
and so you know I am a mai um or I think
00:21:51
we started will Jackson would say you're
00:21:53
you're a crap Mary exactly you're what
00:21:56
is a plastic TIY m m which you know
00:21:59
so it's it's um it's taken me a long
00:22:02
time to and it was really only as leader
00:22:03
of the national party that that there
00:22:05
was that Spotlight like everyone's on
00:22:07
you're right cuz you're the alternative
00:22:09
prime minister and it's and and just a
00:22:13
variety of used right to marry not mry
00:22:16
enough yeah I think I think I seen some
00:22:18
some racism in truth I think New
00:22:20
Zealand's um from all sides right it's a
00:22:24
very it's a very it's still this is
00:22:26
still a we like to think we're all great
00:22:28
but still a vexed thing in New Zealand I
00:22:30
think yeah there's there's a lot of
00:22:31
judgment and I'm guessing um I don't
00:22:33
know I'm probably projecting here but
00:22:35
did it come with some sort of like guilt
00:22:36
and shame like it was this is just the
00:22:38
way you were raised but it's like you
00:22:40
feel like you should know more even
00:22:42
though not your experience that you know
00:22:44
and you've got the situation where as I
00:22:46
say you know a lot lot of indeed you in
00:22:48
the me you know it's like H kind of
00:22:50
almost like um too marry and then on the
00:22:54
other side of you know as say you're on
00:22:55
a mud ey and you do a bit of that and
00:22:57
it's not your comfortable space because
00:23:00
you've never been bought up with it and
00:23:02
you know as you say it's that sort of
00:23:04
plastic malie or you you're your hes
00:23:06
you're not good at that you know but
00:23:08
it's just like kind of and in the end
00:23:11
you know [Â __Â ] a papa is [Â __Â ] a papa it's
00:23:13
there it's not to many a poo it's it's
00:23:16
quite but and the other thing that's
00:23:17
complicated we're all at a level Mong RS
00:23:20
I mean Willie Jackson as I am right you
00:23:22
know I mean there's you look at my
00:23:24
father is mai Jewish um um you know a
00:23:28
bit of I don't know what it is some form
00:23:30
of um British um my we do know cuz he
00:23:34
done this they did the spit test and it
00:23:36
went off to Ireland it comes quite
00:23:37
amazing what as you sort of see oh yeah
00:23:39
ancestry.com yeah it's quite amazing
00:23:41
we've all got a bit of Viking in us
00:23:42
correct and then Mama's got a bit of
00:23:44
Viking but fundamentally a bog standard
00:23:46
sort of um three veg uh um English you
00:23:51
know so it's kind of that's New Zealand
00:23:54
isn't it I think so yeah yeah what are
00:23:57
you well like yeah like I did the
00:24:00
ancestry thing I can't remember there's
00:24:02
a bit of Irish in there a bit of like 5%
00:24:04
Viking we're all muts I could see you
00:24:07
like in Vikings like or something or
00:24:10
running it no no because you're trimming
00:24:11
muscular I could see you with your shirt
00:24:13
off and some ancient tattoos and some
00:24:16
some ax or something and they'd be
00:24:18
saying
00:24:19
helmets attack speaking of that I'll
00:24:22
throw that back on you because um some
00:24:25
somewhere somehow there is actually
00:24:26
footage of you like running around
00:24:28
shirtless like a viking you were on
00:24:31
umena or young H like cuz basically how
00:24:35
did how did you end up there was the um
00:24:36
the uh I just needed the money Ryan
00:24:38
goling Show uh well no cuz what happened
00:24:41
was CU B before Ryan I was um cuz you
00:24:44
know I'm I'm sadly a bit old but um I
00:24:48
you grew up West Oakland they were doing
00:24:50
it it was back in the Heyday of yeah um
00:24:52
Hercules the young Hercules was it and
00:24:54
Xena Warrior Princess and they were
00:24:56
filming those out deep West Kum wherever
00:24:58
it was and I lived out there I needed
00:25:01
money right I mean it it's just like we
00:25:04
didn't we never had any money right I
00:25:06
just think my kids need to like learn a
00:25:08
bit of this you know and get the
00:25:10
experience of it so I I freaking needed
00:25:12
money and I was working then these were
00:25:14
in the terrible Old National Day party
00:25:16
days of you know interest on student
00:25:19
loans no allowance CU my father in like
00:25:22
46 Grand not 45 Grand and so you know I
00:25:26
was I was working bars Food Town anyone
00:25:29
who's old enough will remember Food Town
00:25:31
which is now whatever it is um and and
00:25:34
then and then I got myself on some list
00:25:36
as an extra and what would basically
00:25:38
happen is you'd Rock and it was you know
00:25:40
it was maybe it's where the early
00:25:41
morning it was like 4:00 a.m. or
00:25:43
something you you had to get yourself
00:25:45
out to Rose Bank Road West ockland
00:25:47
they'd put you on a van and there'd be a
00:25:49
bunch of young punks and I always got
00:25:51
casters cuz I've got great crossover
00:25:53
appeal of course you know I've got Cliff
00:25:54
Curtis I was always cast as like an
00:25:56
Asian Warrior or a you know a Polynesian
00:26:00
you know um background scene or
00:26:02
something and back in those days me
00:26:05
wrong it's never been amazing but I I
00:26:07
could at some level take off my shirt
00:26:09
you know we wouldn't be trying that
00:26:10
these days so you I remember running
00:26:12
through the field with bombs going off
00:26:14
and horses I I can't remember if that
00:26:17
was I think that was Zena um and then
00:26:19
and then the other one I remember was
00:26:21
her young Hercules we uh uh we were
00:26:25
doing sort of Staff fighting and like a
00:26:27
colise or something around the main
00:26:30
characters who were doing whatever they
00:26:32
were doing Kevin Zabo Kevin Zabo oh yeah
00:26:35
yeah yeah he was Hercules I feel like I
00:26:37
might be making up for Kevin Zabo but
00:26:39
but but there were dudes but but it was
00:26:41
that it was that sort of error um and
00:26:44
did I do any others I might have done a
00:26:47
little bit more but and they paid well
00:26:49
and the other thing I love was they have
00:26:51
a big freaking table with food and oh
00:26:53
the catering track Perk coffee and stuff
00:26:55
which I don't think back in sort of 1997
00:26:57
we'd ever seen before in West Oakland
00:26:59
was
00:27:00
amazing yeah and so have you have have
00:27:03
your parents or have you got it on a a
00:27:05
VHS or any no I think junos have tried
00:27:08
to find it so for all you know this
00:27:10
could be complete lies um but it is true
00:27:14
I mean it's not a it's not a good enough
00:27:15
story for me to make it up right you
00:27:17
know it's not like me sort of dating El
00:27:20
mcferson or something back in 96 or
00:27:22
something so no it is true but I I don't
00:27:25
know that there is well there will be
00:27:28
footage by definition but you'd have to
00:27:30
watch like a thousand series of Zena um
00:27:33
to find a frame in the background
00:27:35
correct which is still playing in
00:27:36
Germany I think on I think there's a
00:27:38
Zena Channel or something and then so
00:27:41
why why law school what What attracted
00:27:42
you to law uh honest answer so I had an
00:27:46
older brother who was a lawyer Timothy
00:27:49
and uh you know and he'd sort of and and
00:27:52
he'd done well cuz he got into Russ
00:27:54
McVey
00:27:55
which uh you know was the the big firm
00:27:58
at that time and my father was you know
00:28:01
deeply conflicted guy he he wasn't sure
00:28:04
whether he was about gold or money and
00:28:07
he was really into the idea of us being
00:28:09
successful I think cuz he came from
00:28:10
nothing and he was sitting there as a
00:28:12
poor clergyman earning about $9 a year
00:28:15
you know with six kids and and so he was
00:28:19
very ambitious for us he sought my older
00:28:21
brother Timothy doing well in law he had
00:28:23
a fancy job and I think by that stage he
00:28:26
was in the ukuk at a big firm and so he
00:28:29
just really wanted me to be a lawyer and
00:28:30
he fundamentally pressured SL bullied me
00:28:32
into doing law I'm glad I did I think if
00:28:35
I hadn't I would have um I definely
00:28:37
would have gone to University I mean he
00:28:39
pretty academic uh and I would have I
00:28:41
would have done politics I did do a b
00:28:43
Politics as well as my law degrees but I
00:28:45
would have I I probably would have kept
00:28:47
going and done a PhD in Marxism or
00:28:49
something and be a leftwing sort of
00:28:51
lectur at at Ackland University or aut
00:28:54
or something these days right so the law
00:28:56
was good cuz it's a it's a real vocation
00:28:59
I was good at it you know I got B at
00:29:01
time and um uh so I'm GL so I'm actually
00:29:05
glad my dad bullied me in quotes into
00:29:08
into law and it did suit my disposition
00:29:11
right I at school I was a nerd who was
00:29:13
into debating and you know argument and
00:29:16
and and I was always into politics you
00:29:19
know which was not a family thing that
00:29:20
was just a weird Simon ISM that was that
00:29:23
was sort of there you know um and and so
00:29:25
law suited that in a way and no really I
00:29:28
enjoyed you I was practiced for eight
00:29:30
years seven eight years I really enjoyed
00:29:31
that yeah it was yeah very Su so you
00:29:34
went to the UK to do some exra study is
00:29:36
that is that where you met Natalie I met
00:29:37
Natalie and you know I always tell the
00:29:39
stories it's a bit sort of hecky but
00:29:41
it's you know it's a it's a goody you
00:29:43
know we were she was young you know a
00:29:45
pomy girl actually Welsh polish but in
00:29:48
in from the Midlands and she was there
00:29:50
at our College you know these things are
00:29:51
like in Harry Potter star colleges you
00:29:53
know and they they they they've got the
00:29:55
big quad in the middle and and there was
00:29:57
a there was a cubby whole sort of city
00:29:58
areas and and we walked in and we kind
00:30:00
of brushed past each other and it was
00:30:02
all very kind of and we were in the same
00:30:04
we were in the middle common room which
00:30:06
is like we we if you're doing a masters
00:30:08
right we both she was doing a master in
00:30:10
English literature and I was doing a
00:30:11
masters in in in law and um you know
00:30:14
true story she sort of said you know we
00:30:17
then went out for Singapore noodles or
00:30:18
something a week or two after that but
00:30:20
she then said so she went home and rang
00:30:21
her mom and said you know you won't
00:30:23
believe it I've met the man in My Dreams
00:30:25
by the way I was thinner and younger
00:30:26
back then okay she said he's this really
00:30:29
handsome Japanese guy so did did you
00:30:32
feel the same way like was it an
00:30:33
instance of Attraction yeah I think it
00:30:35
was because I think um and the other
00:30:37
thing was in our middle common room like
00:30:39
they were quite boozy you you sort of
00:30:41
like Friday nights mean people it's it's
00:30:43
a caricature up you literally get
00:30:45
dressed up in um I think they call it a
00:30:48
sub fusk but you know it's it's a tux
00:30:50
right you have to wear a tux to these
00:30:51
things and it's really subsidized by the
00:30:54
college you slept down like5 and it's
00:30:56
kind of all you can eat and drink all
00:30:58
night right and its courses and you're
00:31:00
finishing with FL fruit platters and
00:31:02
sherries and it's outstanding right and
00:31:04
by the end you you're trolleyed and you
00:31:06
wake up on Saturday morning hang over um
00:31:08
and you're at long tables and all this
00:31:09
so so we're there at this group and she
00:31:11
and I were the only if you want to put
00:31:13
it this way kind of English is a first
00:31:15
language kind of anglos right or sort of
00:31:17
sort of you know because everyone else
00:31:19
was from Italy and Greece and Brazil and
00:31:23
you know Russia and it was a real United
00:31:25
na so so I think we were kind of forced
00:31:27
get either cuz we were the only two like
00:31:30
like I can remember one of the Greek
00:31:31
guys you know great guy like he's
00:31:33
probably a high court judge or something
00:31:35
in Greece right now doing incredibly
00:31:37
like he's a genius very Urbane and
00:31:41
sophisticated but you know after a few
00:31:43
drinks I I remember once I made a joke
00:31:45
about his mother right like I don't know
00:31:47
his mother right it was just a joke and
00:31:49
like everything changed right and I
00:31:50
thought uh oh I'm about to die here like
00:31:53
in all the all the kind of people from
00:31:55
that culture you know where is n and I
00:31:58
were the only ones who are not from that
00:31:59
kind of kind of world so we so we were
00:32:01
kind of yeah forced together peace and a
00:32:03
pie we started going out and yeah I knew
00:32:06
with I mean it's chy it sounds I knew
00:32:08
within like a fortnite we were we were
00:32:11
going to be together I just felt like
00:32:12
that was the thing but it was pressured
00:32:14
because I had a year of this master's
00:32:16
degree and then I was coming back to UK
00:32:19
uh New Zealand I should say because I
00:32:21
was bonded to my Law Firm they'd given
00:32:22
me a shitload of money to um to help
00:32:25
with this incredibly expensive um
00:32:28
year out in UK on a high pound at that
00:32:31
um point in time so I had to go back so
00:32:34
I was kind of like well you know you're
00:32:37
either coming with me love or you're not
00:32:39
but we got to make a decision really
00:32:41
soon because if you're not you know I
00:32:43
you know there's no point wasting
00:32:44
another nine months on this so I was
00:32:46
pretty hardcore and um but so we got
00:32:49
serious very quickly yeah is the out of
00:32:52
necessity yeah I don't know I suppose
00:32:54
and uh and then she was back at Mount
00:32:56
mongui where I was a young criminal
00:32:58
lawyer um and uh you know it was um were
00:33:04
they were good years yes yes so you um
00:33:07
you were a crown prosecutor in toong for
00:33:09
a while were you um were you ever a
00:33:11
defense lawyer uh I did a couple of
00:33:14
Defense cases a young commercial lawyer
00:33:16
in ockland you know we effectively Rich
00:33:18
Daddy had a son in trouble I mean I
00:33:21
don't know what the freak I was doing
00:33:22
back then that was before I'd been a
00:33:23
prosecut but I can remember one guy had
00:33:25
done like a 160 K up par rise young punk
00:33:29
whose dad was really wealthy I did the
00:33:31
what they call a plan mitigation for him
00:33:32
at the sentencing I remember s of
00:33:34
mumbling something about him being a
00:33:35
good kid from a good family won't do it
00:33:37
again I think he got a massive fine or
00:33:38
something I can remember out EBA you
00:33:41
know excess breath alcohol so I think I
00:33:43
did a couple of things of Defense but
00:33:46
fundamentally all my law career um was
00:33:50
Crown prosecution work so that's the you
00:33:53
know the police do the more the less
00:33:55
serious stuff and the crown prosecutors
00:33:57
come
00:33:58
um for anything that's that can go to
00:34:01
jury trial so I was a jury trial lawyer
00:34:03
effectively for like 6 and a half seven
00:34:06
years and I work really hard but was
00:34:08
very satisfying um very satisfying work
00:34:12
you know serious stuff the real you know
00:34:14
rape murder um serious fraud a lot of
00:34:17
drugs not me personally this trials you
00:34:20
understand um yeah um yeah did you end
00:34:24
up with any sort of like PTSD or
00:34:26
anything you must see some things like
00:34:28
I'm thinking of um you know the the
00:34:31
photo photograph evidence books that
00:34:33
you're privy to and the judge the jury
00:34:36
like I can remember I mean I won't
00:34:37
describe them because it's it's it's but
00:34:38
but I can remember some really heinous
00:34:40
stuff and I think you know I feel bad
00:34:41
now looking B I probably would have
00:34:42
handed it more but but it's a really
00:34:44
young guy and probably not allowed to do
00:34:46
this but I would show them to Natalie
00:34:47
been practice my my openings and
00:34:49
closings and cross examinations on her
00:34:51
right it you know a theme of the theme
00:34:53
of the podcast at 4:00 a.m. or something
00:34:55
before I did it at sort of 10:00 a.m.
00:34:57
that day and um like in a funny sort of
00:35:01
way more Trauma from law than politics
00:35:05
you know as much as politics has got its
00:35:08
um and don't wrong there's a bit of
00:35:10
Trauma from politics too but like I
00:35:12
think what happened at the end of that
00:35:14
CU I was a young guy the end of my legal
00:35:16
career I remember when I got out because
00:35:18
I'd become the candidate for tongo and I
00:35:20
was going to try and go to Parliament
00:35:22
and take that leap of faith really like
00:35:25
was a weight off my shoulders right
00:35:27
right because I was doing jury trials I
00:35:30
was like a Workhorse for this Law Firm I
00:35:32
was in I was doing every I was every day
00:35:34
I was in a jury trial right and the next
00:35:36
one sat the next down I'd be preparing
00:35:38
all night and and but I wanted that cuz
00:35:40
I wanted to get the experience right and
00:35:42
um you know many many jwy trials um what
00:35:46
happens is you become very
00:35:48
cynical very dark if you're not careful
00:35:52
and you start thinking everyone's a
00:35:53
freaking criminal so you go to the
00:35:55
supermarket and you see some guy picking
00:35:57
up some some big bottles of water or
00:35:59
something like oh he's about to do a big
00:36:01
cook of methamphetamine you know that's
00:36:04
that's or you know or you see some you
00:36:06
become very um you see the worst in
00:36:09
people you absolutely see the worst in
00:36:10
people cuz I I became um my specialty if
00:36:15
you like my last sort of say three or
00:36:18
four years were were and and and again I
00:36:21
you know treat sensitively I know for
00:36:23
some people it's even talking about it
00:36:25
at General levels disturbing see sure
00:36:27
cases right and you know there's big
00:36:31
problems in society and and uh and just
00:36:34
saying seeing those things around young
00:36:36
people and so
00:36:37
on you have to cope in some way and I
00:36:40
was probably a bit young and a bit kind
00:36:42
and I was ambitious and I wanted to and
00:36:45
but it I didn't realize at the time it
00:36:48
was affecting me but when I stopped and
00:36:50
the weight came off my shoulders I
00:36:51
realized how much actually I was in a
00:36:53
not I want to say a dark place that's
00:36:55
too dramatic but but it it would
00:36:56
definitely I was more cynical dark and
00:37:00
and I start everyone I met was like i'
00:37:03
be looking at you saying oh yeah that
00:37:05
guy he's you know that's that's what you
00:37:07
become if you're not careful and and how
00:37:10
do you do a job like that not take your
00:37:11
work home like say say you're dealing
00:37:13
with someone and uh they they get found
00:37:15
not guilty and you know they're guilty
00:37:18
yeah um then how do you like how do you
00:37:20
deal with the um complain well I didn't
00:37:22
you know I I did take it home I think
00:37:24
that was that was a problem and uh you
00:37:27
know and that that's always been you
00:37:29
know an issue for me I probably wear
00:37:31
these things too passionately and and on
00:37:33
my sleeve so you know that was a real um
00:37:37
and and and what it meant as well in in
00:37:39
in in the criminal law if you're a
00:37:40
prosecutor it's different if you defense
00:37:42
you ever an obligation to try and get
00:37:44
your guy or girl off um and and you know
00:37:47
Force the crown to really prove it
00:37:49
properly but if you're a crown
00:37:51
prosecutor you're meant to be what they
00:37:52
call a minister of justice and quite
00:37:55
dispassionate you know you're not be
00:37:56
meant to be overly zealous and trying to
00:37:58
get the prosecution you know it's the
00:38:00
old thing you know it's better to have
00:38:01
sort of um um 10 guilty men go free than
00:38:04
one innocent convicted was there was
00:38:06
like a a quote from the um the famous
00:38:08
Greek king yeah that's right and so so
00:38:11
so that's the that's the thinking so but
00:38:12
I would go pretty hard right I got
00:38:14
myself in trouble um a time or two in
00:38:17
the court of appeal right for being
00:38:18
overly zealous for pushing too hard um
00:38:22
but you know that was my way you know I
00:38:25
I I and I and I probably did if I'm Fair
00:38:27
did St thing oh they're all guilty you
00:38:29
know which is a bit of a trick right
00:38:31
then they're not all um I think what's
00:38:33
true in our system is they tend to all
00:38:35
be factually guilty of something if you
00:38:38
know what I mean like but but but but
00:38:42
actually the Crown's obligation is to
00:38:43
prove that charge on that day in
00:38:46
relation to that person and just cuz
00:38:48
someone's a bad guy doesn't mean they um
00:38:51
they have committed that crime Beyond
00:38:53
Reasonable Doubt so yeah it is um look I
00:38:57
think now I'm finally in a place where
00:38:59
I'm I still like to be busy but I you
00:39:02
know I'm finally a place where I'm not
00:39:04
working weekends I'm enjoying it as a
00:39:06
generalization I did this last weekend
00:39:08
because i' I've got my first board
00:39:09
meeting this week but but as a
00:39:11
generalization got smelling the flowers
00:39:14
much more balanced now that wouldn't be
00:39:15
balanced I think in probably a normal
00:39:17
per person's world but in my world it's
00:39:19
more balanced that it's been in a very
00:39:21
long time so did you always have those
00:39:23
um political aspirations was that always
00:39:25
was that always a plan for a young Simon
00:39:26
were you're like I'm going to do law for
00:39:27
a few years then uh yeah it was I think
00:39:30
it was I mean you know weirdo as that
00:39:32
makes me I think well I sort of explain
00:39:34
some people look some people are deeply
00:39:36
you know you take it um not that I'm
00:39:38
remotely comparing myself to say but you
00:39:40
know you take a Peter Burling he's into
00:39:42
yings you know you you you what have got
00:39:44
behind the mic and went people have the
00:39:46
different I I was attracted I was a
00:39:49
reader you know I mean I had you know
00:39:52
brothers who were more sporty than me I
00:39:54
you know preps into other things but but
00:39:56
I'm quite young um actually my auntie
00:39:59
who lived in America she she had a
00:40:01
bought us a kids series of books on US
00:40:03
presidents I mean it it was slightly
00:40:05
better than it sounds and they and I
00:40:08
would and I would read those and I don't
00:40:09
know it's just like a spark there right
00:40:11
I was like this is this is this is about
00:40:13
the world and what makes it Go Round And
00:40:16
I could see that politics really
00:40:17
mattered so I was a real Anor I got into
00:40:20
it very young as I say very very um
00:40:24
young I joined the National party there
00:40:25
was no history of that in my my um my
00:40:29
family I tell the story like I don't
00:40:31
even know if it's true anymore but I've
00:40:33
told it so many times it kind of must be
00:40:35
that it was Food Town actually chat to
00:40:37
North I saw these guys putting up a sign
00:40:39
I think for the 92 93 is it 93 election
00:40:41
um or pre sort of stuff there I saw them
00:40:44
doing that and i' and I'd been thinking
00:40:46
about thought yeah I want to be part of
00:40:47
the national party right um and so I
00:40:50
sort of went up to them and then suck of
00:40:51
a punish by end up delivering all of the
00:40:53
the guys leaflets probably for the next
00:40:56
you were young like
00:40:58
16 you know and uh um and so no I did
00:41:03
get into it but I think it was that
00:41:05
debating it was that ideas the same
00:41:08
things I liked about law um you know
00:41:11
Prosecuting a case if you like and um uh
00:41:15
so yeah it's it's and I got no regrets
00:41:19
you know it's a brutal life and I I
00:41:21
would not remotely lightly go back to it
00:41:23
but but what politics always is is very
00:41:26
interesting you know there's never a
00:41:28
dull moment and I do what I do miss
00:41:30
today is I do miss there's a lot I love
00:41:32
about not being in it um but but but but
00:41:35
the adrenaline is addict the rush of it
00:41:37
the rush I mean if you are always you
00:41:40
know if I was there in government right
00:41:42
now you you're always in demand you know
00:41:45
and that becomes very addictive your
00:41:47
phone is always going whereas now I
00:41:49
might have one text message waiting if
00:41:52
that you know I know if I was still a
00:41:55
senior politician I'd have like 200 you
00:41:58
know they are just always and that's
00:42:00
becomes that's that's that's every bit
00:42:02
not that I've ever taken methamphetamine
00:42:04
but that's every bit like a like an
00:42:05
illicit drug I I imagine you know yeah
00:42:09
is that what someone like Winston Peters
00:42:11
who's old now but he's still still vital
00:42:13
and still vibrant still doing it um do
00:42:15
you think that's that he's just had like
00:42:17
a lifetime of this High cortisol level
00:42:19
this sort of rush of being important or
00:42:22
being busy or being there's something in
00:42:23
that and and I wouldn't dismiss that I'm
00:42:25
not so I don't kind of make wouldn't
00:42:27
make that entirely negative right you
00:42:29
know like because it is about A Life
00:42:30
That's but but and I think a guy like
00:42:32
him you know
00:42:35
um I I think what's also true is for all
00:42:39
the stories about Winston we won't get
00:42:40
into them because I'll get myself in
00:42:42
trouble politicize this but but but I
00:42:45
think for all the what is also true is
00:42:47
this is a guy who I think has a very
00:42:49
good diet um you know does he yeah
00:42:51
actually um Andes he Lover he still
00:42:54
smokes the cies doesn't he um no comment
00:42:56
um but but but but you know but look
00:42:59
look you know the fish and the salads
00:43:01
and so on so I think you know I wouldn't
00:43:04
overplay it um uh you know in comparison
00:43:09
what what let me just I'm trying to be
00:43:10
diplomatic here but let me say this if
00:43:12
we look at the US presidential race
00:43:14
where you got a couple of older
00:43:17
gentlemen one of whom you know the
00:43:19
stories are has got as you know um
00:43:22
accurity issues I'm pointing in my head
00:43:24
oh Biden B yeah Winston's not actually
00:43:26
in there that category you know this is
00:43:28
a guy who's still very much um with it
00:43:31
and and at the you know near the top of
00:43:33
his game yeah well um there's a comedian
00:43:36
I really like and he made a joke about
00:43:38
Biden he said Biden could be the first
00:43:39
president we have that could be
00:43:40
assassinated by a punch to the
00:43:42
[Laughter]
00:43:44
gut but they're about the same age right
00:43:47
Biden and Trump they age and Trump seems
00:43:49
so much more vibrant and so much more
00:43:53
lively correct I mean you've got to hand
00:43:55
it whatever you think about Trump I
00:43:56
don't know be people have a lot of
00:43:57
thoughts about him and you know on a bad
00:43:59
day scares me too um you know and his
00:44:03
positions on sort of Russia and and some
00:44:05
of these things but um you're right I
00:44:08
think he's 78 I mean good grief he's
00:44:12
he's actually for guy who supposedly
00:44:14
eats a lot of McDonald's and and
00:44:16
Coca-Cola but I don't think drinks um
00:44:19
maybe he does I don't know um you know
00:44:21
he's pretty vibrant you're right the way
00:44:23
he gets up and gives those speeches and
00:44:25
you know um and he must looks like a I
00:44:27
would be fascinated to me cuz he looks
00:44:29
like a big guy a giant yeah yeah um okay
00:44:33
so you get so you get into politics um
00:44:35
you you get into the national party and
00:44:37
then uh there's this weekly TV interview
00:44:40
thing with you and just you're like you
00:44:41
called the Young Guns or whatever so
00:44:43
you're just um you're young attractive
00:44:47
um just sort of I suppose bringing a bit
00:44:49
of vibrancy into a a fairly D sort of
00:44:51
environment um yeah what are your
00:44:53
Recollections of that time oh definitely
00:44:55
I I had two lucky breaks um if you want
00:44:58
I mean you make your own lucky level and
00:45:00
you know but but a couple of things that
00:45:02
went very well for me early on in my
00:45:04
career um the first was beating Winston
00:45:07
actually even just talked about him in
00:45:08
Tonga and that was you know that was a
00:45:11
time of that was a phase thing he he was
00:45:13
caught up in a bunch of issues and I was
00:45:15
able to just as a young guy Glide past
00:45:17
and Tong was ready for change but we
00:45:19
were in a good campaign and you know one
00:45:21
one one well that that was great because
00:45:23
there was huge Spotlight on that
00:45:25
campaign and that election uh on the
00:45:27
television and so on and then the other
00:45:29
one was getting Young Guns I think John
00:45:31
ke put me forward for that and and
00:45:34
remember you know it's so different than
00:45:35
today and not to be entirely mean about
00:45:37
our TV we were talking about it off here
00:45:39
you know we as we talk about this you
00:45:42
know um uh news hubs about to be gone
00:45:45
tvnz's got its very real issues um this
00:45:49
was still the Heyday just it was Paul
00:45:51
Henry you know at its absolute height
00:45:55
everyone
00:45:57
like everyone watched this show right it
00:45:59
was unbelievable you know like it it's
00:46:01
like now if you were on say tvnz
00:46:03
breakfast you know a lot of people
00:46:05
wouldn't even necessarily kind of know
00:46:07
or so fragmented but but everyone was
00:46:10
watching this thing and so the had yeah
00:46:12
I think you're right um de I say you
00:46:14
know can people can make their judg who
00:46:16
was more attractive but probably not me
00:46:17
but but you know you had me and jinda
00:46:19
and um every week and we and we took it
00:46:22
seriously man like we would she would
00:46:24
Sledge me before we went on a you know
00:46:26
and
00:46:27
we got we got on very well right we had
00:46:29
a lot of fun and and and and Paul Henry
00:46:32
B the breast out of us you know he's a
00:46:34
very clever um you know fun interview
00:46:38
Who Loved politics he himself was a
00:46:40
National Party candidate um you know
00:46:43
back in the the The Ether so it was
00:46:46
Heyday stuff it really made me and and
00:46:48
it got me good like it's you know it's
00:46:50
the old th000 hours or whatever I mean
00:46:52
some people say you're never good mate
00:46:54
but like everywhere
00:46:57
Prime Time difficult topics had to be on
00:47:00
brief I knew if I got a word or two
00:47:02
wrong John K ring me and tell me off you
00:47:05
know not a you said did that but you
00:47:07
know what I mean like it it was it was
00:47:09
we were conveying the and I wasn't there
00:47:11
for myself you know I was obviously
00:47:12
trying to build my own brand but but I
00:47:14
was also there for the national party
00:47:16
which was in government to kind of make
00:47:19
sure we were we were dominating the
00:47:21
labor party and we were putting forward
00:47:22
the the the best positions for us in us
00:47:25
so it was that was like big thing but it
00:47:28
but because it went well if it gone
00:47:29
badly it would have been differently but
00:47:31
because it went well um you know I I was
00:47:34
very fortunate like I I I became a
00:47:36
minister quickly I then became a cabinet
00:47:39
minister and you know me wrong I work my
00:47:41
ring off but
00:47:43
um you know I I I scaled to the top uh
00:47:48
or close to the top you know by the end
00:47:51
of that time in government I think it
00:47:52
was number four or five in government so
00:47:54
you know that was a um and and I
00:47:56
remember when I when I was going to go
00:47:58
in I thought [Â __Â ] if I if I just become
00:48:00
a sleep committee chair which is lower
00:48:02
down the scale you know that would be
00:48:03
that' be pretty cool you know me of
00:48:05
parliament s in the end I did much
00:48:07
better than that so you didn't have like
00:48:09
I I of imagine you being like a head boy
00:48:11
at school having aspirations to one day
00:48:13
being prime minister um look look I
00:48:15
think you get that after a time right
00:48:18
but I think um you know I suppose I'm a
00:48:20
funny mix aren't we all you know of of
00:48:22
of confident and not confident you know
00:48:25
and I think that's a have moments yeah
00:48:28
some of thaty thing as well you know
00:48:30
it's you know bit bashful or you know
00:48:33
careful you're supposed to be humble
00:48:35
aren't you yeah I know that wouldn't be
00:48:37
a lot of people's perception of me
00:48:38
necessarily but you know so you so you
00:48:40
but but no I feel very
00:48:43
um grateful at the career trajectory in
00:48:46
those those early years lucky breaks
00:48:49
some hard work as well and um you know
00:48:51
it went very it went very well yeah
00:48:54
that's interesting um um interesting
00:48:57
little insight before that line about
00:48:59
John Key had watch you on TV and then
00:49:01
call you up or whatever because he's a
00:49:03
very very successful leader and and you
00:49:05
were you were part of his cabinet at a
00:49:08
um you a phenomenal time this party in
00:49:10
particular um but yeah did he te your
00:49:13
new one from time to time or not not not
00:49:16
often but but I think I think the thing
00:49:18
with John is he didn't need to you knew
00:49:19
if he was not oh yeah totally you know
00:49:23
look this a guy who's you know Trader
00:49:26
very successful guy hugely likable guy
00:49:29
I've haven't seen a lot of him lately
00:49:30
but actually I saw him last week and you
00:49:32
know you just can't help half an hour
00:49:34
with John you just love the guy right
00:49:36
whatever you thought five minutes before
00:49:38
you s of um he's a very personable
00:49:41
people person he is what what you what
00:49:44
you see but you knew when he wasn't
00:49:45
happy that didn't happen often but I can
00:49:47
remember one or two
00:49:49
times um you know where perhaps I'd got
00:49:52
something not quite right um and uh and
00:49:56
you
00:49:58
knew was it um you knew because in the
00:50:01
eyes I think it was in the eyes so he
00:50:03
didn't it's it's not what he said but
00:50:05
what he didn't say yeah I think it's in
00:50:06
the eyes and just the tone you know cuz
00:50:10
that wasn't normal EAS Oz happy go-lucky
00:50:12
John right of course he was much more
00:50:14
than that I'm I don't say that
00:50:15
dismissively but but but he gave that
00:50:18
demeanor so when that wasn't the
00:50:20
demeanor you knew so yeah you knew you
00:50:22
[Â __Â ] up correct there was even um so
00:50:26
so you when you were doing this young
00:50:27
gun stuff so you you were Merit to
00:50:28
Nataly um I think this J was probably
00:50:30
single at the time this is pre clar but
00:50:32
there's even rumors that you guys um
00:50:34
yeah I supposed this is your onscreen
00:50:35
chemistry but there were rumors that you
00:50:37
guys were each other Paul Henry would
00:50:39
sort of spoke that you know say oh the
00:50:41
chemistry is electric and all these
00:50:42
things you
00:50:44
know but we look we got on very well
00:50:47
there's a lot I like about jender you
00:50:48
know obviously U I disagree with a lot
00:50:52
that she would believe and and and you
00:50:55
know um some of the way she handled you
00:50:58
know the the the the the last three or
00:51:00
four years of her her prime prime
00:51:02
ministership um but you know as a person
00:51:06
um like your I admire the way she
00:51:09
um uh you know actually carried things
00:51:13
very lightly in a way I probably didn't
00:51:16
or don't you know I you know if I've got
00:51:19
an issue I'll stress about it and work
00:51:21
too hard on thing about I think she she
00:51:23
um she you know came with things at face
00:51:26
value quite lightly and and so in some
00:51:29
regards while you know people have and
00:51:31
you know I think in my view rightly so
00:51:32
will point to some weaknesses in her
00:51:34
leadership star some big strengths and
00:51:36
you we got them very well we didn't have
00:51:38
a laugh and and you know we were kind of
00:51:40
this sort of in quote celebrity couple
00:51:42
at the time will bit you know not in any
00:51:44
not in any real sense I
00:51:46
stress yeah that's did you ever sort of
00:51:49
um I mean it was a crazy turn of events
00:51:52
that saw her uh quickly rise and then
00:51:54
become Prime Minister and a very
00:51:55
successful prime minister for a time at
00:51:57
that did you ever foresee that I must
00:51:59
admit others did uh I didn't maybe it's
00:52:03
the old familiarity breeds not contempt
00:52:05
but a kind of a complacency and I and I
00:52:08
felt she was too um what I've just said
00:52:11
relaxed if you like um uh you know for
00:52:17
that kind of grinding Prime ministerial
00:52:19
role that you've seen from from a Helen
00:52:21
Clark or a John keyword it's it's every
00:52:23
aspect of your life because in what
00:52:25
level it has to be um so she was she she
00:52:28
was a very different style of politician
00:52:32
and and prime minister I I I think and
00:52:34
and of course you know um what first
00:52:37
ever I think you know young mom as as
00:52:39
prime minister which is a is a
00:52:41
remarkable um a remarkable thing yeah um
00:52:46
do you want to talk about I've got a
00:52:47
list here of some of the some of the L
00:52:50
like greater and greater shits um so
00:52:55
there were there was some I was just
00:52:57
Googling you the other day doing some
00:52:58
research and um I mean how many items
00:53:00
are there there must be like 10 trillion
00:53:02
items there's there's there's a lot so
00:53:03
there's um some secret tapes where
00:53:05
there's a lady called Morin pure and you
00:53:07
were caught on tape calling her [Â __Â ]
00:53:09
useless yes um I I don't know the
00:53:11
backstory about that but I I mainly want
00:53:12
to know like what happens afterwards
00:53:14
like first of all it's a it's a secret
00:53:15
tape so that's the ship ship play ship
00:53:18
form um when that comes out like do you
00:53:21
have to phone morine and groble
00:53:23
something like that I mean I think um
00:53:25
you know there so many many things I
00:53:28
think it's awful like we we've all at
00:53:31
one level you can say you know well
00:53:32
we've all said ridiculous things but
00:53:35
we're not all getting secretly taped
00:53:36
right that's explaining way I think
00:53:38
what's true though was you know all of
00:53:40
that said You know here was me on a
00:53:43
colleague um saying things I shouldn't
00:53:47
have and I deeply regret that um I I
00:53:50
think you know if you take that period
00:53:51
you know what was amazing to me and I'm
00:53:53
I'm going to be a bit self- serving here
00:53:54
but hey you know it's my version of
00:53:55
History so I'm going
00:53:58
um
00:54:00
we I would probably that's like one of
00:54:04
the very exceptional ones that I do
00:54:06
regret
00:54:07
fundamentally in what was a top curvy
00:54:11
very controversial time when the
00:54:12
national party was eating itself and
00:54:15
going through deep upheaval I don't look
00:54:18
back with really much regret at all I
00:54:20
feel like at the time with the facts I
00:54:22
had I acted with integrity and well and
00:54:25
not everyone seen that from the outside
00:54:27
cuz it looks like a but but I I believe
00:54:30
I exhibited um I'm going to say this was
00:54:32
not modest in New Zealand terms but if I
00:54:34
was an American I'd say it Donald Trump
00:54:36
would suly I I I believe I exhibited
00:54:38
great leadership through that period
00:54:40
right and I kept the and actually we
00:54:42
kept momentum and I kept the National
00:54:44
Party in the mid-40s through that period
00:54:46
which you know is is a is a remarkable
00:54:48
feed and that was I say I it was team
00:54:50
but you know we had policy momentum we
00:54:52
were doing a lot of work behind the
00:54:53
scenes that that at a level set up what
00:54:55
what has you know a government a
00:54:57
government now with with policy and work
00:55:00
so you know I'm philosophical I kind of
00:55:04
say you know I think it was you know and
00:55:06
he's not a politician you'd hear quoted
00:55:07
very often but I think it was Richard ni
00:55:08
Nixon at his impeachment or when he had
00:55:11
resigned from being president after
00:55:12
world but you know you kind of don't
00:55:15
know the um highs if you haven't had the
00:55:18
lows you know if you haven't had the
00:55:20
valleys the highs aren't as high so I
00:55:22
don't look back with regrets I I kind of
00:55:25
embrace all of what happened it was a
00:55:28
roller coaster um and and I don't think
00:55:32
you know if I think about my conduct be
00:55:34
one thing if I thought you know you you
00:55:35
got a bunch of things wrong but I think
00:55:36
if people now look back a bit more sort
00:55:39
of soberly objectively you know we I say
00:55:43
we the likes of myself and Paula Bennett
00:55:45
and my leadership team I think we
00:55:46
handled things well fundamentally what's
00:55:49
remarkable and the media was after me
00:55:51
every single day for about 2 years as I
00:55:54
held on as long as I did actually and
00:55:57
really it was in the end Co that that
00:55:59
that that sort of got me not the not the
00:56:02
not the 15 scandals with the well the SC
00:56:06
the scandals are all fairly minor on the
00:56:07
big scheme of things aren't they
00:56:10
um so um Winston Peters you had an
00:56:12
interesting relationship with him
00:56:13
there's there's some clips online that I
00:56:14
found where um like he he he mocks you
00:56:18
for your your kiwi ex totally um and how
00:56:20
you say China he's like I don't know I
00:56:22
don't I don't know where this place CH
00:56:24
is um which like Schoo yard bullying
00:56:27
really isn't it yeah I mean I
00:56:29
think uh you know is that water for duck
00:56:32
speec too is that embarrassing at the
00:56:34
time are you humiliated look look when I
00:56:36
reflect on it's a bit like at the time
00:56:37
not it's not embarrassing but I think
00:56:39
you know think B think look I I did
00:56:40
think the the overall it wasn't so much
00:56:43
Winston actually um but but you know
00:56:46
some of the media aspect on that I think
00:56:48
was um was a bit classist and possibly
00:56:52
racist I'm to say that you know I do
00:56:55
think they would have treated others
00:56:56
differently um and and you know the
00:57:00
media is a pack right and they go
00:57:01
through phases and you know if they're
00:57:04
not you know the labor party will have a
00:57:06
bit of this going on the green party
00:57:07
right now where where the media's
00:57:10
recalibrating they've got a new
00:57:11
government they'll be pretty hard on
00:57:12
them right and that was the phase they
00:57:14
were in a national so that's sort of
00:57:16
sort of that so you know I'd be lying
00:57:19
I've said those don't things don't
00:57:20
affect you in the end they do and they
00:57:22
were hard days hard to get up right but
00:57:25
you know did and we kept um we we kept
00:57:29
moving but oh look now I'm philosophical
00:57:33
but yeah at the time some some of the
00:57:35
stuff was hard yeah like there was a
00:57:37
slushy thing as well like we um so I
00:57:40
think the the labor party under
00:57:43
justun uh was it Kelvin Davis the
00:57:45
corrections Minister he bought um like
00:57:47
100 Slushy machines for prison guards to
00:57:50
have in the office and for some reason
00:57:52
like um yeah you you saying it was a
00:57:55
waste of taxpayers it became like a big
00:57:57
meme thing yeah it did is it because of
00:57:59
the way you say SL the I suppose the
00:58:01
lesson there is there's a difference
00:58:03
between what works in Parliament and
00:58:04
what works in social media right
00:58:07
Parliament has lost a lot of its Verve
00:58:09
right it used to be a rough tough
00:58:11
rambunctious place and I like that um
00:58:13
but it's not well suited for the clip
00:58:16
things up you know where things can be
00:58:17
taken out of out of context what had
00:58:19
happened there was we we had the
00:58:21
government on the ropes actually and uh
00:58:24
and I did a 5 minute spe speech you get
00:58:26
sort of time limits and and then I moved
00:58:29
to get another 5 minutes I got another 5
00:58:31
minutes which was unexpected and you
00:58:33
know I'm I'm yelling slushies now In the
00:58:36
Heat of the Moment in that Parliament it
00:58:39
worked right but when you replay it as a
00:58:42
meme like a million times to young punks
00:58:47
who were 17 who've got no freaking idea
00:58:50
what Parliament is let alone in the
00:58:51
house it doesn't work right um but you
00:58:55
know
00:58:56
[Â __Â ] happens yeah I don't know why it
00:58:59
was so funny but it just was um and what
00:59:02
about to Todd Muller so he he was the
00:59:04
lead of that um it's very Game of
00:59:06
Thrones isn't it Parliament it's um it's
00:59:08
not it wasn't that period I think you
00:59:10
know what what what in government it can
00:59:12
be quite like a military you know you're
00:59:13
marching forward the key sort of English
00:59:15
government you know it's all everyone
00:59:18
knows their place you don't you know
00:59:20
it's very hierarchical what happens
00:59:22
though after like that N9 years of that
00:59:24
is there's like a pressure valve that
00:59:26
needs to be L off and the craziness
00:59:28
comes right and as you say Game of
00:59:30
Thrones I mean it was Game of Thrones
00:59:33
without the killing I'm not aware of any
00:59:34
killing right um so you know it just was
00:59:38
right and uh so again I'm not judgmental
00:59:42
you know we got to a point as I say I'm
00:59:44
surprised in a way I didn't get done
00:59:47
earlier but Co came I knew at that point
00:59:51
I was in a I was in a pickle right I
00:59:54
could either speak out about Co and kind
00:59:56
of go nuts on it and some of the issues
00:59:59
there that wasn't going to go so well or
01:00:01
I could be quiet but if you go quiet you
01:00:04
lose momentum and you go down in the
01:00:05
polls anyway I knew there was a number
01:00:07
in the polls if I went under it um in
01:00:10
terms of my party support they were
01:00:12
going to move right these guys were on
01:00:14
on routine you know for for for years
01:00:17
looking for any reason because you know
01:00:19
parliament's a place full of ambitious
01:00:21
play people and rightly so that that
01:00:24
time came um you know I wasn't going to
01:00:27
go down without a fight we put it to
01:00:29
vote you know the rumor has it who knows
01:00:31
I lost by one vote um and uh you know
01:00:36
that was that maybe who knows maybe in a
01:00:38
life sense it was all doing me a favor
01:00:42
you know cuz cuz cuz life's pretty good
01:00:44
now yeah everything happens for a reason
01:00:45
but um yeah I can't imagine that time
01:00:47
would have been very nice so yeah you
01:00:49
were replaced by Todd Malo he made a
01:00:51
very very good opening speech I thought
01:00:53
seemed very Prime ministerial and then
01:00:54
how many days later how many days did he
01:00:57
last H it's a 50 something yeah because
01:01:00
because it's tough right it's all that
01:01:02
stuff and that's why I say you know um
01:01:04
pat on the back to me you know I was
01:01:06
going through there for years right at
01:01:09
that perod very very hard and you say
01:01:10
it's tough look at it was but the
01:01:12
tougher bits when you're in it actually
01:01:15
it's a bit like that when I told you I
01:01:17
got out of criminal law going to
01:01:18
politics that moment when you're no
01:01:20
longer leader of a party that's got a
01:01:23
lot of division at that time and issues
01:01:26
the way comes off your back in life is
01:01:28
good like I as long as internally within
01:01:30
yourself you're not sitting there
01:01:32
thinking I've done these things wrong
01:01:34
and I I genuinely you know maybe it's
01:01:36
what I just have to tell myself but I
01:01:37
think personally genuin I didn't you
01:01:40
know I don't sit there with a lot of
01:01:42
regret that I got things wrong as I've
01:01:43
already said so actually the the you
01:01:46
know it was a hard day I had to go and
01:01:47
give a kind of a eat Humble Pie speech
01:01:50
and you know and the irony of these
01:01:52
things is as the media always do because
01:01:54
they're out to get you every once
01:01:56
they've got you they're your friend
01:01:58
again right and they're like if only he
01:02:00
had given that speech when he was leader
01:02:01
it's like well I did but you guys never
01:02:03
covered it you know that's the way it
01:02:05
goes they're like a pack of vultures
01:02:07
they they yeah they scavengers that want
01:02:09
blood but the next day life is good
01:02:12
right and um and you know uh you know
01:02:16
felt felt very very felt very very good
01:02:19
I a plea would be to you know those out
01:02:21
there who actually don't follow the
01:02:22
stuff that closely because I think those
01:02:23
who do have a bit more of an
01:02:25
understanding you know don't go up to
01:02:27
David Seymour or Winston Peters or
01:02:29
Nicola Willis or Chris epkins or you
01:02:31
know James Shaw Mar Davidson and you
01:02:34
know swear at them and tell them what
01:02:36
[Â __Â ] they are look that's you don't
01:02:39
really know they're all there trying to
01:02:41
do their thing and and you'll have a
01:02:44
snippet of something and so those ones
01:02:46
would get me you know you sit down on a
01:02:48
plane and some guys in your face abusing
01:02:51
you for an hour you know it's like oh
01:02:53
totally you know and and it's just kind
01:02:56
like so you know for all of the people
01:02:58
think you know oh that politicians a hot
01:03:01
or that you know being a good politician
01:03:03
at a senior level requires a lot of
01:03:06
self-control that's that's quite Aston
01:03:08
that's astonishing to me um people are
01:03:10
always nice in person like there that
01:03:12
phrase keyboard Warriors but there there
01:03:15
does seem to be a thing with politicians
01:03:16
where it's like it's fear game that's
01:03:19
right it shouldn't be but hey look all
01:03:22
of the
01:03:23
sounds it was a great ride yeah and
01:03:26
there's a lot of privilege that comes
01:03:27
being in politics and you know you get
01:03:29
to meet amazing people do some really
01:03:31
interesting things so yeah well what
01:03:33
about Christopher lexon you worked with
01:03:35
him for a while yeah um what what did
01:03:37
you what did you make of him I is you a
01:03:39
very personable good guy and um you know
01:03:43
he he um I think I think what's going to
01:03:46
happen with this government it's you
01:03:47
know be a bit careful because now I'm a
01:03:49
a a public servant at a level in the C
01:03:52
chair role and I you know and I think
01:03:54
the code means I I have to sound like I
01:03:57
could work comfortably with either part
01:03:59
of the parliament and all of that um and
01:04:01
that's all True by the way you know I of
01:04:03
a regard for for Chris Hipkins um and
01:04:06
and some of his colleagues but you know
01:04:08
I think he's good guy Chris luxon I
01:04:10
think he's doing a good job and I think
01:04:12
um you know it's a new government it's
01:04:15
going to pick up momentum I think that's
01:04:17
inevitably what happens with governments
01:04:19
happen with the adun government you know
01:04:21
the key government um the Clark
01:04:23
government will happen with this one too
01:04:25
and what about um so the um the the gay
01:04:28
marriage vote you you voted against that
01:04:30
yeah you look was was that like um
01:04:33
because of your religious beliefs or you
01:04:35
look back now and think actually I'd
01:04:37
vote differently now or I would vote
01:04:38
differently now because so you get hung
01:04:40
up on these ridiculous things that you
01:04:42
know don't matter and well they do
01:04:44
matter but you know your kind of
01:04:47
technical
01:04:48
arguments about them don't matter so you
01:04:52
know I'm clear I would change that now I
01:04:56
mean I think in the end it it it wasn't
01:05:01
you know out of some sort of you know
01:05:02
somewhat cast bigotry or silly business
01:05:05
like that you know I had my technical
01:05:07
reasons why I thought um you know I I
01:05:11
thought we were in a better place at
01:05:12
that time not to not not to support that
01:05:17
law but you know in the end I was wrong
01:05:19
I was missing a big picture it was all
01:05:21
trees without the forest you know and uh
01:05:26
um and that is sort of that yeah is is
01:05:29
that um is it quite liberating for you
01:05:31
to admit that or is it hard does it feel
01:05:33
like getting some humble pile it doesn't
01:05:36
feel like humble pile I think I think
01:05:37
the issue with these you know um
01:05:41
social issues like that is they become
01:05:45
very
01:05:47
binary right you know um well we voted
01:05:50
that way must be a
01:05:51
homophobe um and and and you know and
01:05:55
and and and and have a position on the
01:05:57
LGBT um uh Community you know so so this
01:06:01
is the I I think that and and people
01:06:04
then you know they they they typ cast
01:06:06
you right well this guy's just a
01:06:08
religious nut who has that view I don't
01:06:10
think that's fear um in in my case maybe
01:06:13
in some people's case you know as I say
01:06:15
there was some Nuance technical uh
01:06:17
reasons but you know I missed the wood
01:06:19
for the trees and um and I regret that
01:06:22
well I feel like luxon had the same sort
01:06:23
of thing like people were like he's a
01:06:24
fundamentalist Christian he's going to
01:06:25
ban abortion it was like um almost
01:06:28
scaremongering and fear tactics in a way
01:06:32
so yeah what was the what was the um Co
01:06:34
stuff so this is when uh you you were
01:06:37
still leader of the National Party you
01:06:39
got death threats at the time yeah
01:06:41
definitely I mean I can remember um I
01:06:43
can remember what did you say do
01:06:44
notified those look in the end if you go
01:06:47
back and look at the various sort of
01:06:50
statements they were by today's standard
01:06:52
very moderate right you know I wasn't
01:06:54
running the crazy conspiracy theories um
01:06:56
I wasn't you know we were making again
01:06:59
quite technical arguments around you
01:07:02
know fact I pushed for the lockdown it
01:07:04
wouldn't have happened as fast it did if
01:07:06
I hadn't pushed Jinder ardun and her
01:07:09
government into it both privately and
01:07:10
publicly right but then there was a
01:07:13
point where the the social costs and the
01:07:15
overall costs of the thing were worse
01:07:18
than the was trying right and I was
01:07:20
making that case but but I think what I
01:07:22
learned then is you can be right too
01:07:24
early the crowd isn't caught up with you
01:07:27
right and and
01:07:29
um and and actually you know if you look
01:07:31
at Chris Hipkins right now he's getting
01:07:32
some Flack you know that he should be
01:07:34
saying and jumping around more actually
01:07:35
in those early days of opposition I
01:07:37
don't think that's fair at all right you
01:07:39
better to sit there and let the
01:07:41
government play its role sort of
01:07:44
technically speaking let them do that
01:07:45
and but I that wasn't my style I was out
01:07:48
there I was pushing for it and yeah
01:07:49
death they're scary they're really the
01:07:51
thing about these things it's not so
01:07:52
much me and how it affects me it's how
01:07:55
fix your family right and and admittedly
01:07:57
what happened then is we you know our
01:08:00
house at the time in Tonga um
01:08:02
parliamentary service um end up fitting
01:08:04
it with more Panic alarms and you've had
01:08:06
hot dinners and fences and da D and you
01:08:09
know my father-in-law who was with us
01:08:11
for Lockdown from the UK cuz he got
01:08:13
trapped here um you know every s he'd go
01:08:16
to turn on the lights down and where he
01:08:18
was sort of living in a kind of a granny
01:08:19
flat top here and press the Panic alarm
01:08:21
and they'd be police there in 3 minutes
01:08:23
and was good to know they came i' never
01:08:26
seen guys scale a wall so fast right but
01:08:29
but it was scary and I do think um you
01:08:32
know I I think little bit of a tendency
01:08:34
new people say you know it's the center
01:08:36
left politicians who have all this hard
01:08:38
stuff happening actually no I think it
01:08:40
happens across the Spectrum and you know
01:08:43
I'm sure that the Chris Lux and the
01:08:45
David Seymour and so on are uh are
01:08:48
living with these things even though
01:08:49
they don't talk about them um uh much if
01:08:53
at all how so how we kids at the time
01:08:56
they bit oh young right so they've just
01:08:58
they're 12 10 six now so we're talking
01:09:00
you know sort of I don't know 9 8 six
01:09:04
three sort of things okay so how do how
01:09:06
do you explain that to them we' be
01:09:07
pretty sheltered um but but what is true
01:09:10
and I don't not so talking about my
01:09:12
children per se but I think what is also
01:09:14
true and see who was I talking to
01:09:16
someone in public life you know wasn't a
01:09:18
politician Sports actually very
01:09:20
significant I won't say who Sports uh
01:09:23
star and you know
01:09:25
again what would affect me was not what
01:09:28
happened to me I could take the abuse I
01:09:30
got crocodile skin in the end and the
01:09:32
issue becomes you end up being too
01:09:34
unsensitive right to what people are
01:09:36
saying which sometimes is valid
01:09:37
criticism but it's how to fix your
01:09:39
family kids go to school they get
01:09:42
bullying at school right you know it
01:09:44
only takes two in a class and they're
01:09:46
having you on because your dad is blah
01:09:48
or your m is you know D and um that's
01:09:51
the stuff that really you know affects
01:09:54
affects you um how your kids are when
01:09:57
they're too young to I understand they
01:09:58
haven't done anything uh wrong but but I
01:10:01
think that happens across various forms
01:10:03
of public life yeah but it shouldn't and
01:10:06
you um what you were saying before that
01:10:07
about you having like a crocodile skin
01:10:09
you shouldn't have to no you know what I
01:10:11
mean it doesn't it doesn't make it right
01:10:13
we should be condoning that at all no
01:10:15
It's Tricky one isn't it it's um I
01:10:17
always think yeah you're it's very you
01:10:19
got to be careful to when someone's
01:10:22
abusing the crap out of you you know
01:10:24
there'll be something at it where they
01:10:25
they've got a point potentially right um
01:10:29
and and you just you want to you know
01:10:30
you want to want to want to want to if
01:10:32
there is a Val point you want to sort of
01:10:34
hear that yeah um so when you're a
01:10:36
leader of the opposition and you're
01:10:37
doing tough interviews like say um like
01:10:40
Mike hosing on ZB or John Campbell had
01:10:42
Campbell live at the time Jack tame
01:10:45
perhaps on Q&A or Sunday whatever it is
01:10:48
um do you do you get nervous before them
01:10:51
how much prep's involved do you sit down
01:10:53
afterwards and have like a post analys
01:10:55
or debrief with your team I think as a
01:10:57
cabinet minister and the opposition
01:10:58
leader I I certainly overprepared um you
01:11:02
know I to me would been unforgivable to
01:11:04
go into that and not technically have an
01:11:07
answer around something and be accurate
01:11:09
about it and and I think you look back
01:11:11
on my record and say actually that guy
01:11:12
was strong on that he never got his
01:11:14
facts wrong he always constructed the
01:11:17
argument right um once I lost the
01:11:20
leadership though it was a bit more of a
01:11:22
whatever kind of a phase of life in fact
01:11:25
the interviews flow better when you're
01:11:26
like that right it's you know you're a
01:11:28
bit less prepared you're kind of more
01:11:30
laser fear kind of who cares sort of
01:11:32
thing and and actually what you find is
01:11:34
these things aren't necessarily as
01:11:36
probing as you um and and your demeanor
01:11:38
matters as much or more as kind of
01:11:40
having all the all the the the the facts
01:11:43
right so I think by the end I went into
01:11:45
these things pretty easy oy they're very
01:11:48
different styles you know your jack tame
01:11:50
one is whatever it was 10 minutes if
01:11:52
it's going badly for you 15 minutes um
01:11:55
you know they keep it going um you know
01:11:58
my look look at a level very cynically
01:12:01
speaking as a politician I would look at
01:12:02
those things say look actually the vast
01:12:05
preponderance of kiwis ain't watching
01:12:07
this on a Sunday morning so actually
01:12:09
it's all just about style demeanor if
01:12:11
they want to keep chipping in and
01:12:12
interrupting you and you know with their
01:12:15
questions and trying to cross-examine
01:12:16
you like their per Mason let them let
01:12:19
them finish their thing don't talk over
01:12:21
them let them say whatever they want and
01:12:23
then get back to what you want to say
01:12:24
right so it's you end up the the the
01:12:26
Mike hosking one's more like an orgasm
01:12:28
right it's like over before you began
01:12:30
right I don't know about you but you
01:12:32
know it's like it's like it's like 2
01:12:34
minutes right and it's it's kind of so
01:12:36
that is that is a very intense
01:12:38
commercial radio so I don't know I was
01:12:41
particularly good at that but you got to
01:12:43
know what you're going to say before
01:12:44
you're on like if you got three points
01:12:46
you want to get out cuz he might go
01:12:48
anywhere obviously you know you get a
01:12:50
briefing though like you get a brief of
01:12:52
the theme of the chat or not really I
01:12:54
mean look at a level it'll be like oh
01:12:56
we're on to talk about crime or you're
01:12:58
on to talk about you know Oakland City
01:13:00
issues you're on to talk about um you
01:13:02
know the text Cuts you're promising but
01:13:04
but look of course anything can go and
01:13:05
of course the reason they get you on may
01:13:08
also be something else that you don't
01:13:09
want to talk about in addition to that
01:13:11
thing like you know um you know a
01:13:13
personal issue you've got or whatever
01:13:15
and then um you know and then there's
01:13:17
everything else in between you know your
01:13:19
more soft TV ones where it's like being
01:13:22
more by a by cuddly teddy or whatever
01:13:24
and a pack of labradors yeah yeah you
01:13:26
know so so they're all a bit they're all
01:13:28
a bit um different but I think my
01:13:31
general advice to APS today to be sort
01:13:34
of go with good demeanor you know you
01:13:36
know your facts but actually it's it's
01:13:38
more how you appear that people are
01:13:40
smelling aren't they you know it's kind
01:13:42
of that test what's it like with the
01:13:44
sound off um are you s this SM if Jack
01:13:47
wants to talk over you hey Hakuna Matata
01:13:50
my friend is all good yeah well it's
01:13:52
it's interesting that CU I've had um uh
01:13:55
Ashley Bloomfield on the podcast yes and
01:13:56
he talked about the hosking thing and on
01:13:58
hosking mornings he said him and his
01:13:59
coms team would be up at like 3:00 a.m.
01:14:02
prepping for it like had be [Â __Â ]
01:14:04
himself and wake up in a sweat those
01:14:05
mornings before the alarm went I imagine
01:14:07
and then um and the lead up to the last
01:14:09
election Winston Peters did a train rck
01:14:11
of an interview with Jack T and uh there
01:14:13
were opinion pieces afterwards saying oh
01:14:15
Winston Peter's not fit for Parliament
01:14:17
because this and you you're right no
01:14:19
one's watching no one no one really
01:14:21
cares or people that do watch and then
01:14:22
they make up their of course there's
01:14:23
different purposes you know from Winston
01:14:25
Peter's perspective having an in quotes
01:14:27
train wreck uh interview might might be
01:14:29
a wonderful thing right because there's
01:14:31
a segment of uh New Zealand who um you
01:14:35
know quite likes that actually so it's
01:14:38
all where it's a bit different if you're
01:14:40
you're a leader of a one of the two
01:14:41
bigger parties where you know you're
01:14:43
seeking to be I think you Ed the word
01:14:45
before you know more States manly uh
01:14:47
around or womanly around those things
01:14:49
did you did did you sort of like Winston
01:14:51
Peters you like sparring with him ah
01:14:52
totally look I mean he's he is a great
01:14:55
New Zealand character um you know who's
01:14:59
done a um you know who's who's who's
01:15:03
who's done so much um you know I think
01:15:07
um I I see to him relatively recently
01:15:09
something like you know someone needs to
01:15:10
write a book about you
01:15:12
Winston I said but you you might need to
01:15:14
be gone so that there's no defamation
01:15:16
laws involved and uh and and uh and he
01:15:20
said something like you know I've been
01:15:22
too busy living life not writing life
01:15:25
um but you know I think um whatever your
01:15:29
view about Winston Peters he has been a
01:15:31
big singular figure around New Zealand
01:15:34
Poli now for for for a very long time
01:15:37
and and I think right now you know he he
01:15:40
brings
01:15:41
um some welcome significant experience
01:15:45
experience into the government um you
01:15:47
know everyone will have their view but
01:15:49
um that's sort of mine yeah I I I agree
01:15:53
like you see uh your footage of him with
01:15:55
mold dun in the 70s like he's he's been
01:15:57
he's like the Forest Gump of New Zealand
01:15:59
politics he's everywhere through every
01:16:01
set of government over the last 50 odd
01:16:03
years he's been there it's it's been a
01:16:05
remarkable career and um yeah it's going
01:16:08
to be a huge loss when he eventually
01:16:09
there will have to be a big Winston book
01:16:11
sometime you know like you know New
01:16:14
Zealand politics um and um yeah it look
01:16:18
as I say they'll have to make sure
01:16:19
they've got a good defamation lawyer but
01:16:22
he'll wait till he dies it's the only
01:16:23
safe time to do it there was another
01:16:25
clip I found on YouTube of um you
01:16:27
getting kicked out of parliament by
01:16:28
Trevor Mel who's the speaker of the
01:16:30
house is is that a big is that a moment
01:16:33
of Shame is it like is it like an O
01:16:34
black getting a red card I think it's a
01:16:36
moment of Pride um by the end you know
01:16:38
it's it's a you know I think I think it
01:16:40
depends who you are right there's
01:16:42
there's some there'll be some cats in
01:16:43
that Parliament like oh no I've been
01:16:45
kicked out of parliament my mother saw
01:16:47
this what am I going to do you know and
01:16:49
and but but but but you know I I I think
01:16:51
with my courtroom background you know
01:16:54
and and a bit of a dose of cynicism it's
01:16:56
like there is fundament I mean there is
01:16:58
if you really push the luck you end up
01:17:00
getting fined right you don't really
01:17:01
want that because they can end up sort
01:17:04
of take docking your pay every week for
01:17:07
the rest of your parliamentary term
01:17:09
right and Natalie wouldn't be real happy
01:17:10
with that right you don't want to make
01:17:11
sure so so there are if you really go
01:17:14
for the doctor there's but you know
01:17:17
there are can be some quite extreme um
01:17:20
results but that hasn't happened in a
01:17:21
long time I think Nick Smith nearly got
01:17:23
it happenening to him but that hasn't so
01:17:25
by the end of parliament right and some
01:17:27
people will be appalled by this but you
01:17:29
know it is what it is by the end of
01:17:31
parliament when I was no longer lead of
01:17:32
the opposition actually you know I I I I
01:17:35
knew I was going because I you know I'd
01:17:37
done my my Dash and I think i' you know
01:17:39
been Finance spokes person
01:17:41
in with Trevor you know I just had a
01:17:46
rule um I'm going to get kicked out once
01:17:48
a week and and I you know it was this
01:17:51
was not difficult I would just I'd just
01:17:53
start taking points of order they'd have
01:17:56
no point to them you know really um I'd
01:17:59
give them the borax and you know you
01:18:01
knew by about the third time you're
01:18:03
doing that he was going to be like out
01:18:05
and and that was cool cuz then I could
01:18:06
go back to my office and watch Netflix
01:18:08
or whatever it was I wanted to do did
01:18:11
you um once you left Parliament did it
01:18:13
feel um I don't know how how did it feel
01:18:16
did it feel like there was a big hole in
01:18:18
your life I reckon what makes a massive
01:18:20
difference is how you go I.E are you
01:18:23
going cuz you've decided
01:18:25
or you're going because you lost and you
01:18:28
you weren't reelected right so I think
01:18:30
that psychologically makes a mess of you
01:18:31
know I got a bunch of Pals who who you
01:18:34
know they they failed to win their seat
01:18:36
or whatever and they're not back in and
01:18:38
that that sort of in quotes haunts them
01:18:41
right they always want to get back you
01:18:43
know they want to get back because
01:18:44
they've got unfinished
01:18:46
business now look at a level I could
01:18:48
always say I've got a bit of Unfinished
01:18:50
Business you know it would have been
01:18:52
privilege to being New Zealand prime
01:18:53
minister and some of these but but I'd
01:18:55
been there I'd I'd seen it all been
01:18:58
pretty high up um I'd done my time and I
01:19:03
decided to go and so I think
01:19:04
psychologically knowing you're going on
01:19:06
your
01:19:07
terms um makes a big difference I think
01:19:10
what's also true is knowing that you
01:19:11
know I had some opportunities right if I
01:19:13
was sitting here right now and you know
01:19:16
um it didn't G too well for me on the
01:19:18
outside and I didn't have some
01:19:19
meaningful work to do that that that
01:19:21
that could be a real show look I I know
01:19:24
I it was it was liberating it was
01:19:27
exciting you know as soon as I got out
01:19:29
you know we were we were offshore for a
01:19:31
little while on a kind of a Holland had
01:19:33
been able to have for for quite a long
01:19:35
time um I knew I had a job to go to um
01:19:39
so
01:19:40
so you know I didn't have that but I I
01:19:43
can see how people
01:19:45
do yeah what are the um perks of being a
01:19:48
minister that you miss is there anything
01:19:50
there's only one thing right and and and
01:19:53
look that it's amazing they're not doing
01:19:54
it anymore no there's two things I'll
01:19:56
give you two um number one is the crown
01:19:59
car right and by the way you know yeah
01:20:02
and but and and they're using them less
01:20:03
and less and it's remarkable to me but
01:20:05
but I tell you what if you're a senior
01:20:06
Minister you work fraking hard and you
01:20:11
are always tired and you may well have
01:20:14
been at a function where you know you're
01:20:15
not getting drunk don't get me wrong but
01:20:17
you know it's a you'll have had a couple
01:20:19
of glasses of wine or something you
01:20:21
should not be driving I mean I I would
01:20:23
have been a danger
01:20:25
to other Road users where I driving
01:20:28
those situations and being in that Crown
01:20:30
cast say if you're the minister of
01:20:31
Transport or something you're out in the
01:20:33
regions checking out what's going on
01:20:35
meeting with MS and so on you know that
01:20:38
that is an office you know that is
01:20:40
you're in the back there and you know I
01:20:42
I was pretty staunched right I some of
01:20:44
them would be chatting to the driver and
01:20:46
you know listening to um know one of
01:20:47
your many radio shows or something you
01:20:50
know um I I was always working right I
01:20:53
always had 10 phone calls to make I had
01:20:55
papers to read I was a conscientious guy
01:20:57
so I I I think that that Crown car thing
01:21:01
was like a privilege but it was an
01:21:03
essential right and I'm telling you now
01:21:05
if I ever someone ever if I ever won the
01:21:07
Power Ball and get 45 million I'm going
01:21:09
to get a driver again right cuz I think
01:21:11
that's amazing and then secondly the
01:21:14
other one that you don't get in
01:21:15
opposition you get this you know little
01:21:17
room in Parliament and the Parliament
01:21:18
rooms are nice because they got the wood
01:21:20
paneling and so on but but what you get
01:21:22
when you're back in the Beehive is you
01:21:24
do get your own dunan shower right every
01:21:27
Minister gets a dunan shower and that's
01:21:29
quite a you sort of want that right
01:21:31
you're there long hours you know I don't
01:21:33
I don't want to be using the communal
01:21:35
kind of ablutions and uh so there'd be
01:21:37
two for you oh that's good what what
01:21:40
perks do you get for life is there
01:21:41
anything anymore do you get do you get
01:21:42
domestic flights no is that no no
01:21:44
there's none of that there was I mean
01:21:46
you go back to the the 80s and '90s it
01:21:48
was unbelievable I mean I think there
01:21:50
you know you still have the the last of
01:21:52
a breed who who who you know if they
01:21:54
travel internationally they only pay 10%
01:21:57
of the fear you know um um you know but
01:22:01
but but I assure you in my case there is
01:22:03
zero um left um you know as I sit here
01:22:07
youday two today two two about two years
01:22:10
on from leaving Parliament there is no
01:22:13
remaining I think the only thing I could
01:22:15
think of is if I went to Parliament I
01:22:16
haven't um I don't think I literally
01:22:19
have since I've been out um I could go
01:22:22
and sit in the parliament on the side
01:22:25
they actually in the the house as they
01:22:27
call it I think that's about the only
01:22:29
remaining thing I'd I'd sort of have
01:22:31
left as a kind of a a special treatment
01:22:34
yeah but there's there's no Financial
01:22:36
thing all of that the last of it died
01:22:39
out with key actually where he um and
01:22:42
and I suppose the government I was part
01:22:43
of got rid of it yeah and from a um a
01:22:46
personal like mental perspective how how
01:22:48
have you been it seems like um it seems
01:22:50
like you're you're fa robust cuz I'm
01:22:52
thinking of like like Todd Todd Muller
01:22:54
well publicized mental health issues um
01:22:56
G is Gan at the moment um I mean that
01:22:59
shoplifting that's got to be connected
01:23:01
to mental health in some way cuz it just
01:23:02
makes no sense um what about you fairly
01:23:05
robust yes I think I am a reasonbly
01:23:08
stoic kind of you know I think something
01:23:09
about the upbringing big family kind of
01:23:12
you know you get up every day it doesn't
01:23:14
really matter what's going on you do the
01:23:16
job I think whether I am anymore I think
01:23:18
I've got a bit sort of um fat and middle
01:23:21
class but you know I mean I used to PR
01:23:23
myself I live on a can of baked beans a
01:23:26
day you know I I you know when I went
01:23:28
through University had no money you I
01:23:31
wor a lot of jobs and sleep much you
01:23:33
know but then I still managed to do well
01:23:34
at University right so so I do I suppose
01:23:37
you're right I I have a perception of
01:23:38
myself as a tough robust guy who just
01:23:41
gets on and does the business and
01:23:42
doesn't worry too much about the
01:23:43
emotions and all that sort of stuff um I
01:23:46
think though that the slightly more
01:23:48
interesting answer is hey you know I can
01:23:51
remember on those plane trips you know
01:23:53
you just everything had gone wrong all
01:23:55
week you know you knew that half your
01:23:57
colleagues were trying to do you and you
01:24:00
know you hadn't handled X Y and Z every
01:24:02
well and you know you might be sitting
01:24:04
there um just quietly by S pretend
01:24:06
you're sleeping but wanting to cry you
01:24:08
know and um so I I think anyone in some
01:24:13
of the circumstances I found myself and
01:24:15
would be in the same sort of situation I
01:24:17
don't think um but or or or or Worse
01:24:20
frankly but um so I don't want to
01:24:22
pretend it was perfect and and I don't
01:24:24
want to pretend my response to some of
01:24:26
the stuff over the years has been
01:24:28
perfect but I think I do feel you know
01:24:30
again this the word we've use it but I
01:24:32
do feel grateful that um that I've never
01:24:37
you know there's been periods of
01:24:38
depression probably you know due to the
01:24:41
circumstance but I've never had major
01:24:44
mental health problems which we know you
01:24:46
know so many today um do and and and you
01:24:50
know it's so good that we talk about
01:24:53
that stuff more than than we we used to
01:24:55
are you quite good at talking about it
01:24:57
like uh with with with Natalie like do
01:24:59
you would you get home on a Friday
01:25:01
afternoon and she's like how's your week
01:25:02
and you're like uh don't ask I was never
01:25:04
good at it never I was terrible you know
01:25:07
I'm like you yeah I think so and I think
01:25:09
you other thing is you know hey because
01:25:11
I've got an introvert part of me that's
01:25:13
that's quite big right so and you're out
01:25:15
there as a politician you've just talked
01:25:17
to like a thousand people all freaking
01:25:20
week and you're just home be and Tong or
01:25:22
you know um on on Friday afternoon and
01:25:25
you just want to you don't want to say
01:25:27
another word right and you know you've
01:25:29
got someone who wants something from you
01:25:31
and it's just like how was it good you
01:25:33
know any issues no um pass me that
01:25:36
bottle you know um and so but but I tell
01:25:40
you what I've learned more recently and
01:25:41
and this is just something you know and
01:25:43
this doesn't come natural to me but I
01:25:45
think I've got a bit better I think
01:25:46
Natalie would I've got bit bit better
01:25:48
and I've just got this thing so we will
01:25:50
have uh you know come home from a from
01:25:53
from work on Wednesday nights you know
01:25:56
maybe we manag to somehow miraculously
01:25:58
get rid of the kids upstairs at some
01:25:59
point in time cup of tea I'll make sure
01:26:03
on that and this is nothing much right
01:26:04
but I'll make sure in that cup of tea
01:26:06
actually we're having a really good
01:26:07
meaningful conversation where I'm fully
01:26:10
present fully engaging she is we're both
01:26:13
you know asking and answering you know
01:26:16
questions in a in a in a in a full
01:26:18
genuine way and look most people say oh
01:26:21
you whack job is that all you can manage
01:26:23
but that's progress for me oh well cuz
01:26:26
I'm a man you know men are a certain way
01:26:28
and you and I are a similar age and it's
01:26:30
just not the New Zealand we were raised
01:26:31
in um and it's funny because like
01:26:34
vulnerability is a massive word now and
01:26:36
we're understanding that um the more you
01:26:38
can open up and talk about these things
01:26:40
um the better off you are from mental
01:26:41
perspective but like from a
01:26:43
parliamentary perspective it's
01:26:44
definitely not there yet like if if
01:26:46
you're just do and you you show a motion
01:26:48
at the mosque that's fine if you're John
01:26:50
Key show emotion at Pik River mine
01:26:52
that's fine but if if if if you stand up
01:26:54
there and say hey I'm not doing very
01:26:55
well like a lot of people have been mean
01:26:56
to me online I've had some death threats
01:26:58
and you get emotional um reflecting on
01:27:00
your own stuff that's going on people
01:27:01
are going to be like this guy's not fit
01:27:03
this that's right I and I think it just
01:27:06
there's a kiwi aspect to it all which
01:27:08
you know I'm not even necessarily saying
01:27:09
as entirely wrong but it's like oh
01:27:11
that's all a bit indulgent you know
01:27:13
they're all about themselves they're
01:27:14
talking about themselves and as a
01:27:16
politician you know call me old school
01:27:18
but it's kind of like you're there for
01:27:20
the people you're there for others you
01:27:21
know you're not there to be talking
01:27:22
about your own stuff right
01:27:24
you know um and and so so there is all
01:27:28
of that with with that isn't it um and
01:27:32
uh you know like I say heck of a job I'm
01:27:35
I'm glad to be out where I'm living a
01:27:37
much more um in quotes normal life you
01:27:42
know I if I um you know it's amazing how
01:27:46
quickly people don't abuse you on the
01:27:47
street anymore they know you're out you
01:27:50
know um uh you can go back to a level of
01:27:53
anonymous
01:27:54
anonimity you know the word I mean um
01:27:57
that and turn that
01:27:59
into
01:28:01
slushies slush an un but I should have
01:28:04
given you a slushy today you so should
01:28:06
have no it's not a stitch up here um
01:28:09
what about um crying do you are you much
01:28:11
for Cryer when when did you last cry I
01:28:12
think I do cry um more than people
01:28:14
because cuz in a way you're like I'm all
01:28:16
over the show here in this podcast and
01:28:17
you'll say what you just said you
01:28:18
weren't like in a
01:28:21
way you know maybe we all are in a way
01:28:24
I'm deeply emotional things can make me
01:28:26
quite I tell you what made me really
01:28:27
emotional recently and may me again s of
01:28:30
says what a whack job he's crying about
01:28:32
something external that he and a guy
01:28:34
doesn't even know but I'll tell you what
01:28:35
made me cry recently like really
01:28:37
recently as we recall this is Alex nalni
01:28:41
you know the opposition guy in Russia
01:28:45
and just you know cuz I sort of sit
01:28:46
there and think you know you're
01:28:47
opposition it was had it hard moments
01:28:50
and you know and you you felt on some
01:28:52
days that everyone hated you and you
01:28:54
know and that was just on your side and
01:28:56
you know all of that you sit there and
01:28:58
think about this guy and I suppose it
01:28:59
goes back to my childhood and I say that
01:29:01
reading I did and you know the politics
01:29:03
should be Noble and you know it matters
01:29:06
and so on there's a guy you know who
01:29:08
kind of like um a bit like you know if
01:29:12
you're religious Jesus in a way knew he
01:29:14
was going to die for what he was doing
01:29:16
right I mean this is not a smart game
01:29:18
plan he had taking on Putin every day
01:29:21
and out mocking the guy you know and
01:29:23
going at him sticking up for ordinary
01:29:25
Russian s he ended up and I can remember
01:29:27
thinking about it before he was he died
01:29:29
tragically you know but you know you
01:29:30
know the poisoning and then he ended up
01:29:32
in like the worst Eastern block prison
01:29:35
up in the back of where you know the the
01:29:37
treat you know the treatment would have
01:29:38
been ping and the guy was exactly the
01:29:40
same age as me 47 and you
01:29:44
know if you kind of put it at its he
01:29:47
died for his country I remember the
01:29:49
morning that happened I woke up and saw
01:29:51
look I don't know why it just triggered
01:29:53
something me and I cried a month or two
01:29:56
ago and uh so yeah I mean I think I'm
01:29:59
capable of you know a good movie will
01:30:01
make me cry still um uh you know um
01:30:06
maybe something around my kids you know
01:30:07
if it's not quite right or I feel like
01:30:09
you know it's so so I probably I think a
01:30:13
lot of go I probably do have a closet
01:30:15
cry at some level every week or to but
01:30:18
it's I I um I do love that I've had a
01:30:21
couple of our peers on the the podcast
01:30:23
Adam perori for New Zealand C and
01:30:25
Matthew Ridge and um yeah Reggie said he
01:30:28
cries all the time now like he'll be
01:30:29
driving in his car on his own just
01:30:31
reflecting on some things that he's like
01:30:33
happy about but I can see he is a you
01:30:35
know and and and like I see this me in a
01:30:37
different way he's even more so with
01:30:39
that sort of what is he a minion a
01:30:41
minion kind of disposition probably
01:30:43
right that sort of but but but he's you
01:30:45
know you can see that he is a passionate
01:30:46
emotional guy right I probably do a good
01:30:49
job of hiding that and becoming more
01:30:52
stoical I think law and politics kind of
01:30:54
teaches you that rational side of the
01:30:56
brain s but I think I think we've all
01:30:58
got a bit of that and I and I and I
01:30:59
definitely have and it comes out a bit
01:31:01
and probably now I'm more free and easy
01:31:03
it comes out more than it than it used
01:31:04
to yeah you got any
01:31:09
regrets I don't want to create I don't
01:31:11
want to create a headline here but but
01:31:13
you know we've talked about you know one
01:31:15
or two of them my political career where
01:31:17
you I've said the wrong thing and I
01:31:18
think um but
01:31:21
fundamentally um I always think it's a
01:31:23
bit chea people say I don't do regrets
01:31:25
but I kind of don't I I I do think
01:31:29
basically I got things right the right
01:31:32
times and the big stuff I think I've
01:31:34
learned over time you know I could be a
01:31:36
bit clinical you know I'm kind of like
01:31:38
well I'm I've got the outcomes right I'm
01:31:39
trying to do the right thing here for
01:31:40
New Zealand You Know da da um I think
01:31:44
I've learned more good leaders um I
01:31:46
still consider myself at a level of
01:31:48
leader you know on that front line but
01:31:50
you know good leaders do have an empathy
01:31:52
and an understanding of the people they
01:31:54
do have good EQ you know they do have
01:31:55
emotion and and and you probably I could
01:31:57
have brought a bit more of that to Bear
01:32:00
you know um I talked about the
01:32:01
interviews that's just an example of
01:32:03
this you I got every answer right but
01:32:06
maybe there was a need for a bit more
01:32:07
Humanity maybe that's true on the gay
01:32:09
marriage one you know for example some
01:32:11
of these things so we're all learning
01:32:13
aren't we and uh and hopefully like I
01:32:15
don't know if I'm getting better because
01:32:17
I probably am I'm probably picking up a
01:32:18
bunch of new bad habits but you know
01:32:20
we're all learning and changing if
01:32:22
you're the same guy you would were 20
01:32:24
years ago well you're [Â __Â ] with you know
01:32:26
actually we got to keep moving with and
01:32:29
evolving and and learning things and
01:32:31
being surprised by things um yeah yeah
01:32:34
it's funny at that isn't it we you you
01:32:36
have old friends and um you know they
01:32:39
may want to go out drinking you don't
01:32:40
want to go and they like you've changed
01:32:41
and it's like well yeah you haven't you
01:32:43
haven't changed who's the winner here
01:32:46
and um second second half of your life
01:32:48
what's that going to look like um I I
01:32:50
just wanted to be interesting
01:32:51
stimulating and I suppose the politician
01:32:53
in me there's still a bit of that I I do
01:32:56
you know I think people say what are
01:32:58
what are you you know why what is this
01:33:00
about are you about is it you like the
01:33:02
fame or do you is it you know you were
01:33:05
um Power hungry or it's got to be a bit
01:33:07
of ego doesn't it there's a bit of and
01:33:09
there's always every politician but I
01:33:11
think I think what I what I do want is
01:33:14
is is some significance by which I mean
01:33:16
you know I sense
01:33:17
that I am doing something that matters
01:33:20
for more than myself and will leave some
01:33:23
form of Legacy you know and and and and
01:33:26
you know um so so I think you know
01:33:30
interest um you know loved ones family
01:33:34
all of those things but but but I think
01:33:36
you know I still I still want want to to
01:33:39
you know I love New Zealand I still I
01:33:41
still do want to to to be significant in
01:33:44
this country and be contributing right
01:33:45
not in politics anymore but but but
01:33:48
another Fields whether that's business
01:33:49
or you know or or you know through this
01:33:52
nzta role so yeah I'm looking forward to
01:33:55
it you know all the super well not
01:33:57
superficial but all the good stuff you
01:33:58
and I both want you know I got to look
01:34:00
after my health so I get to 100 I'd like
01:34:03
to make a 100 some people want to um uh
01:34:05
I want to travel there's thousand places
01:34:08
I want to go um with my family and show
01:34:11
show my kids these amazing places so I
01:34:14
look I I uh the wrist was a wake up call
01:34:18
but I'm looking forward to the next 47
01:34:20
years how good and you're looking very
01:34:22
relaxed life is great is great hey
01:34:25
thanks so much for your time today I'm
01:34:27
so pleased we connected and made this
01:34:28
happen and um yeah anyone that's still
01:34:30
listening now 1 hour 34 into it I hope
01:34:33
they've um that you you are what they
01:34:35
thought you were or they've got like a
01:34:37
different perception of you for the
01:34:38
better hey well thank you having me D
01:34:39
look the checks in the mail because this
01:34:41
counseling session has been outstanding
01:34:45
it's been a hugely positive beneficial
01:34:47
therapeutic experience me but I serious
01:34:49
so thank you for what you're doing it's
01:34:51
it's a great podcast and you know I know
01:34:53
a people get a lot of lot of meaning
01:34:55
from it I appreciate that Simon Bridges
01:34:57
thank you cheers
01:34:59
[Music]
