00:00:00
Oh, good. You're here. Come on. This is
00:00:03
the center of performance. Whenever
00:00:05
there's a top performance in New
00:00:06
Zealand, it all comes from here. That's
00:00:08
Lisa Carrington. She's been doing that
00:00:10
for days. That's the boys who got the
00:00:12
hole in one in to
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Finn. How's the performance going?
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>> Top tier.
00:00:18
>> Nice. This is our generate room. In
00:00:21
here, you'll find our top performers
00:00:22
helping Kiwis maximize their Kiwi Saver
00:00:24
[music] investments. Get in here, Finn.
00:00:26
>> Maximize. Generate. putting performance
00:00:29
first.
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>> Sean Win Stanley, welcome to my podcast.
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>> Uh, yeah. Hey, thanks. Thanks for having
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me.
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>> At Standard Line, that's what I brought
00:00:43
in with me.
00:00:43
>> You're um you're nervous.
00:00:45
>> Yeah, I just Oh, as I as I was saying
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just before, I I
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I don't like attention. Um, and here I
00:00:53
am sitting on a podcast with with Dom
00:00:55
Harvey. So I I that's what makes me
00:00:57
uncomfortable. Um but hey, here I am. Um
00:01:02
and happy to have you on with you.
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[sighs and gasps]
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>> Does your story get easier to tell the
00:01:07
more you tell it?
00:01:08
>> Yeah, I think as we start talking
00:01:12
through it that telling the story
00:01:15
isn't too bad to be honest. It's just
00:01:17
the to to me it's a it's a yesterday
00:01:21
issue. It's a yesterday problem. We're
00:01:23
moving forward. Um, the way that I look
00:01:25
at it is we need to keep going forward.
00:01:27
So, this is is going back. Um, but at
00:01:30
the same time, you still got to
00:01:32
acknowledge what what what your past is
00:01:34
and and and what's actually got you to
00:01:37
where you are today, I suppose. So, the
00:01:39
story itself
00:01:41
um isn't too bad, but it's just the
00:01:43
whole stigma of that that attention
00:01:46
coming towards towards you.
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[sighs and gasps]
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>> Well, I do appreciate you being here on
00:01:50
your first ever podcast and sharing the
00:01:52
story. Do do you think there will there
00:01:53
will come a time where you draw a line
00:01:54
in the sand and you just don't talk
00:01:56
about July 2023 anymore?
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>> Yeah, I I don't know. Um
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>> or is it part of your part of your
00:02:02
fabric?
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>> Well, sitting here today, um you had
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have asked me a year ago, would you be
00:02:07
doing this is you you couldn't have paid
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me enough. You you'd never I'd never do
00:02:11
it and here I am. So, I can't say what
00:02:12
what what what tomorrow is going to
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bring. But um as I mentioned before and
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this the story and and where I've come
00:02:21
from and what's happened since um it may
00:02:24
resonate with some people may not the
00:02:26
people that it does resonate with and
00:02:28
and the feedback that I've been getting
00:02:31
um is if I can help one other person is
00:02:34
I know people say that but if it helps
00:02:36
one other person then man I'll do it as
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long as people want me to. So,
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>> yeah.
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>> You and I, we've been going backwards
00:02:42
and forwards for um a couple of months
00:02:44
now, I guess, maybe longer. And um you
00:02:46
you you did a piece, I think it was with
00:02:47
the New Zealand Herald, and and then you
00:02:49
bumped the podcast back after that
00:02:50
because you said it was like it was
00:02:52
draining or it took something out of
00:02:53
>> you. Yeah. I Yeah, it it is because you
00:02:58
do it and then you're like, "Oh, this."
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And and you get this attention. I'm
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like, "No, never again." and I sort of
00:03:04
go under my rock, you know, and uh but
00:03:06
then I come out the other end and I'm
00:03:08
like, "Oh man, some of the things that
00:03:10
I'm saying, you got to be be comfortable
00:03:12
being uncomfortable, you know, and this
00:03:14
is uncomfortable, but it's it yeah, it's
00:03:17
going to get easier, I think." And
00:03:19
>> um yeah,
00:03:21
>> well, I really appreciate you being
00:03:22
here. Um you are now like an
00:03:24
entrepreneur. You're the CEO and founder
00:03:26
of um this bad boy here, Firebird. and
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we'll get into your whole entrepreneur
00:03:31
journey um later on. It's amazing what
00:03:35
you've done, what you've created in such
00:03:36
a short period of time. Um but first of
00:03:38
all, we'll get get to the crunchy stuff.
00:03:40
Eh,
00:03:40
>> yeah, appreciate it.
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>> So um who was Shan Stanley before July
00:03:44
20, 2023 and who is he now?
00:03:48
>> Yeah. So fundamentally I'm the same
00:03:52
person. So first and foremost I'm a
00:03:53
husband and a and a father um family
00:03:57
member friend um so that hasn't changed
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um uh perhaps some some way of me the
00:04:06
way I perceive and how much I need to
00:04:08
give here and there may have moved
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around a little bit but um yeah pre that
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time um yeah a serving police officer um
00:04:18
>> you're a detective
00:04:19
>> uh yeah I was a a detective yep and then
00:04:22
I'd joined the the tactical squads um
00:04:25
prior to this uh the incident happening.
00:04:28
Um and then afterwards
00:04:30
u a little blip in the middle um and now
00:04:33
yeah as you said five bed protein coffee
00:04:35
and and recovery has been the the last
00:04:38
couple of years. So um yeah.
00:04:41
>> Are you still a member of the New
00:04:42
Zealand Police Force?
00:04:43
>> Yeah. Yeah, I am. Um
00:04:44
>> what's your status?
00:04:45
>> Uh I'm on a period of leave without pay.
00:04:47
>> Okay. Um, so probably a good point just
00:04:50
to acknowledge how um, uh, supportive
00:04:54
the New Zealand police have been. Um, I,
00:04:58
yeah, they've been fantastic and I can't
00:05:01
understate how supportive they've been
00:05:03
and appreciative I am from from them.
00:05:06
Everything they've done for me over my
00:05:09
career and and also since what's
00:05:11
happened.
00:05:12
>> What's the ultimate goal? Is it to get
00:05:14
um Firebird protein coffee up and
00:05:16
running and you go back to being, you
00:05:18
know, a serving member of the New
00:05:19
Zealand Police?
00:05:20
>> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. And well, that's
00:05:22
and I laugh. I might laugh cuz it's
00:05:25
awkward, but I just can't get get I
00:05:27
can't scratch that itch. Um there's
00:05:30
something about being a police officer.
00:05:32
um you join for a particular reason and
00:05:35
you'd think with with the success that
00:05:38
we're having with Firebird
00:05:40
um and the opportunities there um that
00:05:43
that why would you go back right but
00:05:45
there's something that you get out of
00:05:49
um [sighs] helping people I suppose um
00:05:53
that that yeah I'm I'm I'm keen to still
00:05:56
do my bit in that way and and I'm still
00:05:58
very passionate about policing and
00:06:00
police work So, um, yeah, I suppose I
00:06:05
need to figure that out properly.
00:06:08
>> Well, it's all quite recent,
00:06:10
>> like like what two and a half years.
00:06:13
>> Yeah, a couple of years ago. Um, yeah,
00:06:15
July. So,
00:06:17
>> yeah. Yeah, recent, but a lot's
00:06:18
happened, right? Um,
00:06:21
and the and the first the first 12
00:06:23
months certainly was pretty slow, I
00:06:26
suppose. And um yeah, but all I can say
00:06:30
is in a in a good space, but uh
00:06:33
throughout today I I'll be saying about
00:06:36
how [clears throat] how I've dealt with
00:06:37
it. But there has been some tricky
00:06:39
times, you know, like
00:06:40
>> when you're not eating after multiple
00:06:42
operations and you get hangry and my
00:06:45
wife will tell you I get hangry and
00:06:46
[snorts] if I ever am a bit grumpy, it
00:06:48
will either be go for a run, go to the
00:06:49
gym or have something to eat and that
00:06:51
generally sorts me out. So that was
00:06:52
something I couldn't do for 12 months. M
00:06:55
um so [snorts] although I'll sit here
00:06:58
now and say um life's all good and this
00:07:01
that and the other um there there's been
00:07:04
some tough times along the way. Um yeah
00:07:08
before um July 20th 2023 what what do
00:07:11
you think your biggest adversity was in
00:07:13
life?
00:07:15
>> Yeah. Um
00:07:20
I I don't know if there's one that
00:07:21
stands out. um
00:07:25
by adversity as such. Um
00:07:29
and I suppose it's the challenges that
00:07:31
I'd set myself along the way um
00:07:36
through [snorts]
00:07:38
um through the police. Um and when we
00:07:42
were a bit younger, we lost a um really
00:07:45
good mate of ours uh to a tragic
00:07:48
incident that happened.
00:07:51
Um
00:07:55
and that's where it all sort of started
00:07:56
to how to deal with
00:07:59
um adversity I suppose without going
00:08:02
into that too much but yeah.
00:08:06
How often do you think about that day
00:08:08
now?
00:08:09
>> July 20.
00:08:10
>> Um,
00:08:13
>> yeah, not not in depth as such, but
00:08:16
every day when I'm brushing my teeth and
00:08:18
I hit a bit of the non- teeth area or
00:08:22
there's a little bit of a flap in my gum
00:08:26
or I'm I'm trying to bite something and
00:08:28
I can't cuz I've still haven't got teeth
00:08:30
there. I suppose it will remind me in
00:08:33
some way. Um
00:08:35
yeah, you mentioned at the start it is
00:08:38
just part of what's happened now and
00:08:41
um yeah so not not not in depth but
00:08:44
there's certainly
00:08:46
>> reminders
00:08:47
>> the reminders and um I suppose
00:08:51
yeah how how lucky I I was.
00:08:54
>> Yeah. Yeah. Would you say you're lucky
00:08:56
or unlucky?
00:08:57
>> Yeah. Well,
00:08:59
another thing that I have to say and a
00:09:01
couple of the reasons why I don't like
00:09:04
telling my story in some reason is that
00:09:07
there there was two people that didn't
00:09:08
leave that building that day. There was
00:09:10
another eight people that were were
00:09:12
really really badly injured. There was
00:09:14
people that just only just
00:09:17
like nearly nearly got shot, you know.
00:09:20
So, um, my heart still goes out to those
00:09:23
that did lose their lives to them, uh,
00:09:26
their families and stuff like that, you
00:09:27
know, like I'm I'm grateful enough and
00:09:30
I'm lucky enough to be sitting here and
00:09:31
telling this story and that that's not
00:09:33
lost on me.
00:09:34
>> Um, so yeah, heart goes out to them. So,
00:09:38
to to answer your question, I feel
00:09:41
>> um I was yeah, an unlucky
00:09:44
unlucky lucky person that day. Um,
00:09:46
>> it's perspective, eh?
00:09:48
>> Yeah, absolutely. And I think so there's
00:09:50
a couple of well there's four main
00:09:52
things if if you want me to touch on it
00:09:54
now that I reflect on during uh that
00:09:56
time which has helped me get through. Um
00:09:59
first is um like mental resilience
00:10:02
through physical exercise. So that's
00:10:04
even just going for a run and pushing
00:10:07
yourself that extra 100 meters. might be
00:10:09
someone that is struggling to even walk
00:10:11
to actually go to the uh uh mailbox and
00:10:15
back. Um and and it's something hard,
00:10:18
but you you you get through it. I think
00:10:20
I put a lot down to my recovery from
00:10:23
some of the selection courses and stuff
00:10:25
I'd done in my life where I'd pushed
00:10:27
myself to the limits and I proved to
00:10:29
myself that I could get through it. So,
00:10:31
um prevention or building mental
00:10:33
resilience through physical exercise.
00:10:35
But since then,
00:10:36
>> [snorts]
00:10:36
>> um, don't dwell the what ifs. Um, what
00:10:39
if I didn't go to work that day? Uh,
00:10:41
[snorts] what if I had have been
00:10:43
standing 2 cm to the left? What if I had
00:10:45
have done this? What if
00:10:48
you can't dwell on the what ifs. And on
00:10:49
reflection of that, a lot of the times
00:10:51
you are a little bit shitty or or grumpy
00:10:54
or upset. It's sort of like, well, what
00:10:56
if I had have got that promotion? What
00:10:57
if that girl had liked me? What if I had
00:10:59
have gone that way? What you know? Um so
00:11:02
those what ifs um in the past I I think
00:11:06
if you can acknowledge them but move on
00:11:08
and don't dwell on them. Um and that's
00:11:10
something that I've had to deal with. Um
00:11:12
so don't dwell on those whatifs. Um the
00:11:16
the job be grateful for what you got,
00:11:18
right?
00:11:19
>> Um
00:11:21
I can't eat an apple. Who who cares
00:11:23
because I'm grateful that I can eat, you
00:11:25
know? Just just an example to bring it
00:11:27
back to [snorts] thing. Um, be grateful
00:11:31
for what you got, whether it's your your
00:11:33
partner, your kids, your dog, your next
00:11:35
door neighbor or whatever. Um, yeah, if
00:11:38
you're above ground, then then be
00:11:40
grateful. And the last one is um just be
00:11:44
open to talking to people.
00:11:46
I'm And it's a work on for me cuz I can
00:11:49
pretty much tuck tuck a lot under the
00:11:51
belt and carry on, you know, and it's
00:11:54
it's a work on for me. But um uh yeah, I
00:11:57
promised Nikki, my wife, um after I came
00:12:00
out of my coma that I would talk to a
00:12:03
psychologist um because many incidents
00:12:07
prior to what happened that day. You I'd
00:12:11
get a call from the welfare officer from
00:12:13
work and I'd be like, "No, I'm okay. I'm
00:12:15
going to a job. See you later." But and
00:12:17
then I got to a point where I would say
00:12:19
it's them and not answer them. Sorry to
00:12:20
them. [laughter]
00:12:22
They they're amazing and and that didn't
00:12:23
put me in goodstead at all. But oh, it's
00:12:26
[snorts] a welfare officer. I won't talk
00:12:27
to them. But if I had of um and since
00:12:30
engaging with those types of people that
00:12:33
that offer that support and
00:12:35
>> [snorts]
00:12:36
>> um man, you just feel better for it. And
00:12:39
uh gone are the days in my opinion that
00:12:40
you can just pick up a bottle or
00:12:43
[snorts] um and and drink your way
00:12:45
through it or or do some other ways.
00:12:47
Just get it out, you know,
00:12:48
>> just bottle bottle things up. Yeah. Were
00:12:50
you like were you like a vault before
00:12:52
this? Oh, pretty. [laughter] Oh, I'm a
00:12:54
vault and that vault's still sort of
00:12:56
closed quite a bit, but I open it up
00:12:58
from time to time now just so that that
00:13:00
vault doesn't blow up. But, um,
00:13:03
>> what would Nikki say about you like pre
00:13:04
pre the the shooting? Like, were you
00:13:06
were you a terrible communicator?
00:13:08
>> Oh, absolutely. We'd be we'd go out to
00:13:11
uh we'd go out to dinner or something
00:13:12
like that and I'd be having a yarn and
00:13:14
I'd say, "Oh, yeah. Yeah, last week we
00:13:16
did this and there was bullets flying
00:13:17
and this that and the other or oh we
00:13:19
went to this sudden death and this
00:13:22
person had was decapitated or something
00:13:23
like that. And she was looking across
00:13:25
the table at me going you didn't tell me
00:13:27
that. I was like, "Oh, I think it's me
00:13:30
protecting
00:13:31
uh protecting her, protecting the kids
00:13:34
that when I go out that door in the
00:13:36
morning or emergency services staff go
00:13:38
out the door that morning that um they
00:13:41
don't need to be exposed to some of the
00:13:43
things that we are and it's more out of
00:13:46
protectiveness than anything. So, um
00:13:49
yeah, I can't confess or I can't say
00:13:51
that I'm a great communicator, but
00:13:54
>> um I'm trying to be better.
00:13:55
>> You're working on it?"
00:13:56
>> Yeah. Well, we've been going for 13
00:13:57
minutes. You're doing great so far.
00:13:59
>> Yeah. Yeah. 13 minutes communication.
00:14:01
Yeah. Right. [laughter] I might close
00:14:02
that vault soon, so you better hurry up
00:14:03
for some questions you want to ask.
00:14:05
>> Okay. Right. Right. Okay. Um Yeah. July
00:14:09
20, 2023. Run us through that day. So,
00:14:12
you you wake up.
00:14:13
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, wake up like normal. I
00:14:16
was And there are certain things that I
00:14:19
I can't and won't be um
00:14:22
telling. It's still before the coroner.
00:14:25
Um, and it's still an ongoing sort of
00:14:27
investigation in that way. But I can
00:14:28
tell you from my point of view. Um, and
00:14:31
and just a good point too that um I I'll
00:14:35
I'll tell my side of the story uh what I
00:14:37
felt saw this that and the other, but
00:14:40
there's [snorts] a whole lot of other
00:14:42
great police staff, my colleagues, my
00:14:44
friends that ran into that building that
00:14:46
day, emergency services staff that
00:14:48
turned up and did a fantastic job, the
00:14:50
the doctors and everyone. So, this is
00:14:53
sort of my story, my take on it, but
00:14:55
just to acknowledge that there was heaps
00:14:57
of other legends out there that [snorts]
00:14:59
um that ran into that building to help
00:15:01
out people that day. So, um we turned up
00:15:05
at Manau just as usual. That's where we
00:15:06
were based. We had a small team. Um,
00:15:09
[snorts]
00:15:09
and I was drinking this smoothie that I
00:15:11
usually this green smoothie that I've
00:15:14
had every day pretty much that I'm in
00:15:16
the police and I was drinking that away
00:15:17
and then we hear over the radio that
00:15:18
there's um someone been shot in the CBD.
00:15:23
Um and and we sort of just started to
00:15:26
monitor it because our role in that
00:15:28
particular group at the moment at that
00:15:30
time was to respond to high-risk um
00:15:32
complex issues and and to help out with
00:15:35
some of the tactical skills, equipment
00:15:37
and and knowledge that we had um to
00:15:40
assist the front line. So we're
00:15:42
listening to this and we start sort of
00:15:43
kitting up a little bit and um and then
00:15:47
we hear that he's he's still out there
00:15:49
and he's and he's still shooting. Um, so
00:15:52
we're like this is this is us. Um, we're
00:15:55
into it. So I jump in our car and I'll
00:15:57
leave my smoothie and and the I just
00:16:00
mention that cuz they stink like
00:16:02
[snorts] protein shakers and that stink
00:16:04
and it was left in there afterwards,
00:16:05
right? Cuz I couldn't go back funny
00:16:07
enough. Um, but uh so we jump in the car
00:16:11
and we're going there from Manau and and
00:16:13
it I've described it before like in in a
00:16:16
Mario Kart, you know, we were in and out
00:16:18
and and it was it was busy traffic. It
00:16:20
was what 7:00 8:00 in the morning or
00:16:22
something [snorts] and I the boys in the
00:16:25
car just go faster [laughter] go quicker
00:16:27
quicker the drive I'm like man unless
00:16:30
you're going to fly you're not getting
00:16:31
us there quicker but we were in and out
00:16:33
of barriers we were bloody pushing
00:16:35
through everywhere and but [snorts] then
00:16:38
on a serious note we're hearing he he's
00:16:42
the offender still shooting still
00:16:44
shooting cop shot cop shot we're hearing
00:16:48
cop shot
00:16:49
>> um and we're like, "Yeah." So, we're um
00:16:52
we're putting on our hel uh our helmets
00:16:56
um making sure that we're all clear on
00:16:58
on what our aim is and and we just go
00:17:00
into um job mode, you know, like we
00:17:04
train we train a lot and and and we
00:17:07
train for these situations, you know,
00:17:09
it's never going to be uh by the book,
00:17:12
but uh we start ticking over what's our
00:17:14
aim, what do we need to do, start
00:17:16
thinking about um uh how we're going to
00:17:19
deal with this. So, we arrived at the
00:17:20
bottom of Queen Street there. I don't
00:17:23
know the state of our car, but um we
00:17:26
jumped out and and uh sort of threw a
00:17:29
helmet to the driver and it was one of
00:17:31
the boys that had a big head. Uh so, I
00:17:34
think he put it on. It was a bit loose.
00:17:36
I was like, "Just wear it, man." Um we
00:17:39
jumped to the boot of the the car. Um
00:17:42
you can sort of hear the the gunshots.
00:17:45
Um,
00:17:47
I put a a sledgehammer down the the back
00:17:50
of my um body armor. One of the boys
00:17:53
throws a a a medkit on his back
00:17:58
and then we sort of take off to to an
00:18:00
area where we think we can start getting
00:18:01
up into this building. Um,
00:18:05
and a couple of things along the way
00:18:07
that I remembered, like you could hear
00:18:09
these gunshots
00:18:11
and there was people still getting out
00:18:13
their phones and recording us. Uh, and
00:18:16
there was a Tik Tok at the time of me
00:18:18
and my colleagues and my mates sort of
00:18:21
sort of running into that building and
00:18:23
that could have been the last bloody
00:18:25
video of us alive, you know.
00:18:28
Um,
00:18:29
so we're still hearing at this point I
00:18:33
recall another cop shot whether they
00:18:36
were hit or not, but um the offender was
00:18:39
making their way up to the top of the
00:18:40
building and so we enter through the
00:18:43
bottom and get to a stairwell and we
00:18:45
start going up and
00:18:48
um I recall people just coming back the
00:18:50
other way and and victims or blood over
00:18:53
their hands or
00:18:56
white I remember a white shirt and
00:18:58
covered in blood and and and our our
00:19:01
mission is to effectively stop the stop
00:19:03
the killing at this point. So we have to
00:19:06
say to these people that are asking for
00:19:08
our help, just go that way. Go that way.
00:19:10
You know, we need to move forward to to
00:19:12
[snorts] neutralize any threat or or to
00:19:14
contain the situation, right? Um so
00:19:19
we're running up the stairs and
00:19:22
I'm seeing this and and we're going,
00:19:24
"Yeah, okay. This is You can hear
00:19:25
[clears throat] the banging still. And
00:19:28
um I remember getting halfway up and and
00:19:31
our and our ballistic glasses, they were
00:19:33
really really fogged. Um and I was like,
00:19:37
"Oh, usually in some of the training um
00:19:41
but we're better at it now. We just dump
00:19:43
the bloody glasses, you know, cuz if you
00:19:45
can't see, you can't
00:19:47
>> it's it's harder to make good
00:19:48
decisions." And so I just asked one of
00:19:50
the the the mates just to cover forward
00:19:52
and I and I wiped it off. And I I I
00:19:55
raised that point because that's
00:19:57
potentially probably what saved my eye.
00:19:59
Uh because I did take that 10 seconds to
00:20:02
to wipe it off, which I'm yeah, a lucky
00:20:06
guy again, I suppose. But then [snorts]
00:20:08
we carried on up and we got to the 20th
00:20:09
floor and as I said a lot of other
00:20:11
awesome people ran into that building
00:20:13
that day to help out and said hello to a
00:20:16
couple of the boys and and then we'd
00:20:18
sort of
00:20:20
um
00:20:22
we we'd identify where he was. So we'd
00:20:25
contained him but we hadn't isolated the
00:20:27
offender and we knew that he at this
00:20:30
point was from the building. Um, and if
00:20:33
he, my thinking was if he gets out and
00:20:34
runs through those hundreds and
00:20:36
thousands of people in the bottom of
00:20:37
Queen Street,
00:20:39
we're not going to be doing our job very
00:20:41
well if we if we, if we get it to this
00:20:43
point, right? So, um, um, me and my
00:20:46
team, we sort of we sprint run back down
00:20:49
to the 18th floor cuz the idea is just
00:20:51
sort of to my my thinking is we'll
00:20:53
contain him in this lift shaft to uh,
00:20:56
start negotiating with him, you know. Uh
00:20:58
even at that point, I'm thinking let
00:21:00
let's let's start getting some dialogue
00:21:03
and let's bloody talk him talk him out
00:21:05
here and uh that's the idea. If we can
00:21:07
cord him and contain him, then we can
00:21:09
appeal him to come out.
00:21:12
We get down there and one end of the
00:21:13
lift shaft because they're quite it's a
00:21:16
construction site. Um and uh so that the
00:21:20
doors of the um lifts aren't there.
00:21:23
There's big um bits of plywood on on top
00:21:27
of it. So, one end we needed to get up
00:21:29
and and have a look to see if we can see
00:21:31
him and and then we can start doing what
00:21:34
we we need to do. And we we crack open
00:21:37
that door and have a bit of a look up
00:21:39
and I can sort of see or hear something,
00:21:42
but not enough to sort of start talking
00:21:46
or anything like that. And so, someone
00:21:48
holds that area um of the team holds
00:21:51
that area so he doesn't come out and in
00:21:53
there. And then we go run down to the
00:21:55
other end and do the same thing. So, as
00:21:56
the doors opening, [snorts]
00:21:59
tuck into the wall, and as I'm coming
00:22:02
out to have a look, cuz I last saw him
00:22:04
or or saw movement and and heard
00:22:06
something up. [sighs]
00:22:09
So, I'm coming around and this 360 sort
00:22:11
of opening within this lift [snorts]
00:22:13
shaft. And I'm like, well, need to get
00:22:16
in there to find out if where he is. and
00:22:19
and I'm looking up and as I come around
00:22:21
the corner he's made his way um down the
00:22:25
shift lift shaft and I think like uh my
00:22:29
ground level there was a scaffold
00:22:30
perhaps a meter from my memory down um
00:22:34
and my firearms been raised um and as
00:22:38
I've started coming off that sort of
00:22:40
corner um that's where he's just shot
00:22:43
underneath my firearm taking that finger
00:22:46
and
00:22:47
getting my face And um
00:22:50
I thought [ __ ] [ __ ] [laughter] shot in
00:22:53
the face. Um and
00:22:56
>> really is that the first thing
00:22:56
[clears throat] you think?
00:22:57
>> Oh,
00:22:58
>> you just shocked.
00:22:59
Yeah, I suppose shocked and
00:23:03
it it was just like I I I recall just
00:23:07
the teeth, you know, the shattered and
00:23:10
grittiness in my mouth and and then I
00:23:13
think sort of the training still
00:23:16
[snorts]
00:23:17
comes in a little bit. Um
00:23:20
cuz then a medic uh a maid of mine sort
00:23:23
of helps me get over to a corner and
00:23:27
and and and I'm just like have I got any
00:23:30
other injuries? Have I got any other
00:23:31
injuries? They take my body armor off
00:23:33
and they do a sweep and cuz I was
00:23:36
thinking, [ __ ] if I've got one in the
00:23:37
arm or or something, we might have to
00:23:40
have a a torn or something like that. I
00:23:42
just need to get to a point that I can
00:23:44
get out of this building, right? and he
00:23:46
said, "Um, oh no, the no other obvious
00:23:50
injuries." Um, so I used some bad
00:23:52
language. I said, "Well, let's get the
00:23:54
[ __ ] out of here."
00:23:55
>> Um, got up and and and I I think I can't
00:24:00
even this. So, this is how important
00:24:03
training is and repetitiveness. And it's
00:24:05
not it's done nothing saved me on this
00:24:08
occasion, but I yell cover me because I
00:24:11
needed to move from one dangerous place
00:24:13
to another. and I needed my mates to to
00:24:16
cover me. So, yelled that. And then we
00:24:18
went to the um the stairs and and I I
00:24:23
just ran out of the ran down the stairs
00:24:25
and uh got outside and and someone said
00:24:28
to me, "Oh, do you want the helicopter
00:24:30
or the um or the ambulance?" And I just
00:24:33
said, "I don't [ __ ] care. I've just
00:24:36
been shot in the face." So, I got
00:24:38
ushered over to um the ambulance.
00:24:42
[snorts] Um, and as I came out of the
00:24:45
building, I saw uh cameras and I was
00:24:48
like, man, I cover my face. So, there
00:24:52
are a number of images of me lifting my
00:24:54
shirt up.
00:24:55
>> You've actually got a photo. Is this the
00:24:57
moment
00:24:58
>> you prepared earlier? That's exactly it.
00:24:59
So, I've sort of pulled the shirt up to
00:25:01
try and hide my face. And
00:25:02
>> why is that?
00:25:04
>> Well, cuz I saw cameras there and I was
00:25:06
like, well, one, I don't know what's
00:25:08
going on here. Um, and that gives me
00:25:10
sort of a few little goosebumps. But as
00:25:14
it turns out, the reason why I was
00:25:16
thinking it is exactly the reason why I
00:25:18
didn't want to be on camera. My my two
00:25:20
sons were sitting on the couch at home.
00:25:23
Nikki [snorts] was helping them with
00:25:24
their shoes. And on the screen is this
00:25:28
being streamed live. And um my oldest
00:25:30
boy goes, "Oh, look, Mom. There's a
00:25:32
police officer with um uh steam and
00:25:37
blood coming off him." So, she sort of
00:25:38
turns around, has a little look, and um
00:25:41
just turns it off. She saw me in my blue
00:25:43
uniform as opposed to the black uniform.
00:25:46
And I think she just disregarded that it
00:25:48
could have been me. I'm not too sure,
00:25:50
but uh that's the exact reason why I was
00:25:53
like, "What could have been?" You know,
00:25:55
that could have been the last time that
00:25:56
my son saw me
00:25:59
in in those sort of circumstances.
00:26:01
>> How old were your boys?
00:26:02
>> Uh they were eight and six
00:26:06
>> or thereabouts. It's it's crazy that
00:26:08
you're um you've been you've been shot
00:26:09
in the shot in the jaw and you were
00:26:11
still thinking about them.
00:26:13
>> Oh,
00:26:13
>> thinking about other things.
00:26:15
>> Yeah, 100%. And that's and my wife tells
00:26:20
some like about my mind what I was
00:26:22
thinking at the time. You know, she says
00:26:24
that she walked in uh and the first
00:26:27
thing I asked her was, "Did you park the
00:26:28
car?" Okay. And I'm like, "Don't
00:26:31
[laughter]
00:26:32
worry about that." And then I'm like,
00:26:33
"Well, how are the boys?" you know, um
00:26:36
and um yeah, and and although I'm not a
00:26:41
good communicator, I think it's very
00:26:43
clear to people that know me that that
00:26:45
my boys are my everything. And um it's
00:26:48
pretty easy to get up in the morning
00:26:50
when you know that you you're you need
00:26:51
to be a role model to them and and to to
00:26:54
help shape them into being good humans.
00:26:56
So, um, uh, then we jumped in the the
00:27:00
ambulance and made our way to Oakland
00:27:02
Hospital
00:27:03
and, uh, and then the decision was made
00:27:06
to put me in an induced coma where I was
00:27:09
in for three or 4 days. Um, and then
00:27:13
woke up from there, ICU. Some
00:27:15
interesting times in there.
00:27:17
>> What do you mean?
00:27:18
>> Oh, I was just Well, cuz I hadn't had
00:27:21
time to process it. So I sort of came
00:27:22
out and I I was nurse would drop a drop
00:27:27
a bottle and I I'd sort of sit up or um
00:27:32
uh the way that ICU is I hope not too
00:27:35
many people have experienced it that
00:27:37
that are listening but you're facing
00:27:39
inward uh to a to a wall and behind you
00:27:42
is a corridor so you don't actually know
00:27:44
what's going on behind you. Um, and I
00:27:47
just remember sort of being like and and
00:27:50
just being like, "Nikki, are you okay?
00:27:51
Nikki, you okay? She's just going to go
00:27:53
get a drink. Are you okay?" And I was
00:27:55
just really hyper sensitive for
00:27:57
everything and in ICU. But again, a
00:28:00
shout out to all those nurses and
00:28:04
everyone in there just fantastic. Hey,
00:28:06
fantastic. And and you you hear about it
00:28:08
all the time, but I can just double down
00:28:10
on that. the the help the people
00:28:12
[snorts] uh my surgeon since then uh
00:28:15
Jamie Olson uh we we text a bit and he
00:28:19
he's looked after me since along with
00:28:21
with other people but he's been my
00:28:22
primary career for for reconstruction
00:28:25
and this that and the other and man he's
00:28:27
done an awesome job and
00:28:29
>> but uh yeah that hyp hyper sensitivity
00:28:31
was didn't wasn't helped by they took me
00:28:34
one down one morning there was an issue
00:28:36
with my lung like inhaled some shrapnel
00:28:40
or something like that and they needed
00:28:42
to go and I don't know some big long
00:28:45
word lapis something to get it out of
00:28:47
the lung. Yeah. Yeah. [snorts] Never
00:28:49
you're a cop, not a surgery. [laughter]
00:28:50
>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. If I Yeah. If I
00:28:53
can't say it, I don't even know it. Um,
00:28:56
and and it was like 5:00 in the morning
00:28:59
and I wasn't sleeping very well in there
00:29:01
and it wasn't because of anything that
00:29:03
happened because I run quite hot and I
00:29:05
was in the thing and and it's quite warm
00:29:08
in there and I'm quite tall so the beds
00:29:10
aren't long enough and then they had to
00:29:12
had the head up because they wanted to
00:29:13
make sure that I was swallowing and
00:29:15
doing all this sort of stuff. So I kept
00:29:17
sliding off the bed so I was I was te
00:29:20
couldn't have proper sleep. [laughter]
00:29:22
Yes, I had a 4 day snooze, but and I was
00:29:25
sliding down, so I was a bit jaded and
00:29:28
um and they took me down and I'm I'm
00:29:30
lying there and and then they put me in
00:29:32
a lift and I'm like, "Oh, [ __ ] back back
00:29:34
here." you know, and then it goes ding
00:29:37
at the other end and the door opens and
00:29:40
it's a construction site at um uh the
00:29:45
Oakland Hospital and there's the sign
00:29:47
from place makers or whatever exactly
00:29:49
the same that what I saw when I ran into
00:29:52
that building and I just started
00:29:53
laughing and the audiing [laughter]
00:30:00
me into this construction site 5 days
00:30:04
after. Yeah. I was like, "Ah, if you
00:30:06
don't laugh, you cry, right?" Uh, but
00:30:08
yeah, lots of little things that I
00:30:10
reflect on and and look back on. But,
00:30:12
>> um, yeah, the par did you feel like your
00:30:14
life was in danger? The paramedics
00:30:16
thought you you may not make it, eh?
00:30:17
>> Yeah.
00:30:18
>> Did you Did you feel like your your life
00:30:20
was hanging in the balance?
00:30:21
>> Well, you just been shot in the face. I
00:30:23
thought that I might have been in a bit
00:30:24
of trouble. Um, but I I don't think I
00:30:26
let myself go to that point. Um, even
00:30:30
when I was in the coma, they had to
00:30:33
strap my arms to the bed because I I
00:30:36
kept trying to get up and keep moving.
00:30:38
So, I think from very early on that I
00:30:42
was going to do everything in my power
00:30:43
not to let this be it. Um, but certainly
00:30:47
I think
00:30:49
a paramedic or someone since who cuz my
00:30:52
wife Nikki's retraining now to to join
00:30:54
St. John, but um had said at the time
00:30:57
they thought it was a bit touch and go.
00:30:59
Um
00:31:01
>> and yeah, I think I just straight went
00:31:03
into remember how I said don't not
00:31:06
looking back. It it was straight into
00:31:07
what's next next next minute, next hour,
00:31:10
next day. And that's sort of how I'm
00:31:12
wired and um
00:31:14
>> it served you well.
00:31:15
>> Well, yeah. in this particular occasion,
00:31:16
right? Mental resilience through
00:31:18
physical exercise. I just know that hard
00:31:20
shit's going to happen and it's how you
00:31:22
respond to it and that's how Yeah.
00:31:24
Sometimes a bit easier said than done,
00:31:26
but man, you got to try.
00:31:27
>> Eh,
00:31:28
>> yeah. I I love that. There's a saying I
00:31:30
really like. Hard hard choice, easy
00:31:31
life. Easy choice, hard life.
00:31:33
>> And and it is it is. And I I just think
00:31:39
my my circumstances puts a bit of
00:31:41
context behind it and puts a bit of
00:31:43
reality and it's not just a something
00:31:45
that's flashed up on on social media.
00:31:47
It's actually this this it works.
00:31:51
>> Yeah.
00:31:51
>> If you can get it right.
00:31:53
>> Um do you remember the the first time
00:31:55
you were reunited with um Nikki or the
00:31:57
boys?
00:31:59
>> Yeah. So again, I So Nikki didn't allow
00:32:04
anyone in. Um
00:32:07
uh I that might have annoyed uh my
00:32:11
parents and stuff a bit and well it
00:32:13
didn't cuz they were fine and they
00:32:15
understand they know who I am, but I
00:32:16
don't like being seen
00:32:19
as a victim um or or really vulnerable
00:32:23
like that. And Nikki knew that and I
00:32:25
appreciate that decision that she made.
00:32:27
Um, so no one came in um for for a long
00:32:30
time, but when um when I woke up, yeah,
00:32:34
Nick was there and um
00:32:36
>> How was that?
00:32:37
>> Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I did hear
00:32:40
again not a good communicator and she's
00:32:43
probably hearing it for the first time.
00:32:45
She she she's been my rock. And there
00:32:47
was times there where
00:32:50
I was just like cuz the visitors could
00:32:51
only come in after 10:00 in the morning
00:32:54
or something like that and I'd just be
00:32:55
like counting down the counting down the
00:32:57
minutes being like when can you get in
00:32:59
here? When you can be in here even if
00:33:00
she was just sitting there and stuff
00:33:02
like that. So um
00:33:06
yeah.
00:33:07
Yeah. No, it was just another
00:33:11
reason why you get up be grateful. Mhm.
00:33:15
>> Yeah.
00:33:16
>> Um even though you don't like being seen
00:33:18
as um as a victim or like in a
00:33:20
vulnerable state, did you Yeah. Did you
00:33:22
Were your boys allowed to see you?
00:33:24
>> So I didn't want them to No, I didn't.
00:33:26
And and this this could be Yeah. quite
00:33:28
odd. So I didn't see them till I I got
00:33:31
home from hospital. Um I we dealt with
00:33:35
it in a way cuz that was my first
00:33:37
concern too around how we're going to
00:33:39
deal with this. And we've been very very
00:33:40
honest with the boys. Um
00:33:43
and uh from day one, but but again at
00:33:48
that point I I I sort of made the
00:33:52
decision with Nikki, but just wait till
00:33:55
I get home. You know, at that point
00:33:57
after I came out of the coma and they
00:34:00
started to get a bigger picture, I think
00:34:02
at that point we knew that I was going
00:34:03
to certainly pull through. I think
00:34:06
>> barring
00:34:08
unforeseen
00:34:09
um complication but um
00:34:13
yeah made that decision and and when we
00:34:15
went back when I got home that that was
00:34:18
that was something else you know like
00:34:20
when they embrace you and they don't say
00:34:23
anything and these boys don't shut up at
00:34:25
the best of times. So for them to be
00:34:26
silent and hugging me and and how
00:34:28
tightly they did and then I just looked
00:34:30
down and there's sort of tears just
00:34:33
quietly going down their face and
00:34:36
um is is just something else you know
00:34:39
and um ever since then we were like I I
00:34:44
started getting up straight away making
00:34:46
their their their lunches and trying to
00:34:49
get back to normality as quickly as I
00:34:51
could and they they were sort of feeding
00:34:53
off off us a little bit
00:34:56
that I'd wake up in the morning because
00:34:57
I couldn't talk very well and and
00:34:58
obviously at that time I was relatively
00:35:00
disfigured and it wasn't very pleasant
00:35:03
to to look at or what is pleasant to
00:35:06
look at now. I'm I'm certainly not as
00:35:08
vain as I used to be. Um and they would
00:35:12
be like in the morning like Scooter my
00:35:14
younger boy would be a dad your voice is
00:35:17
sounding a lot better. And I'm like, I
00:35:19
spoke to you 9 hours ago, but that they
00:35:21
were trying to do that positivity or
00:35:23
they'd run in from work from school and
00:35:25
go kind of go, "Oh, it looks way better
00:35:27
now, Dad." And I'm like, "Oh, thanks,
00:35:29
buddy's really." But like and and that's
00:35:33
um
00:35:34
that that's something that I think
00:35:38
I'm I'm really proud of that that we
00:35:40
could try and from a very early stage
00:35:43
and it's not always easy to do to try
00:35:46
and show that get up and go um and and
00:35:51
do what you can, you know. Um, so that's
00:35:53
yeah, I snuck out and uh cuz Nikki was
00:35:58
working at home at the time and I was I
00:35:59
was pretty d I was dribbly for ages,
00:36:01
man. [laughter] And then I was like, now
00:36:04
this is part of I need to get a haircut,
00:36:05
you know, like I need a haircut. So I
00:36:07
snuck out. I don't know if I was
00:36:08
supposed to be driving down to the
00:36:10
haircut and I [snorts] walk in and the
00:36:12
hairdressers all look at me and I'm
00:36:14
like, just give me a haircut. sitting
00:36:16
there all dribbling in the [laughter] in
00:36:18
the headresses and I was like cuz I was
00:36:21
wearing bibs you know and they put the
00:36:22
thing around here I was like I just got
00:36:24
to hold it in enough that it doesn't
00:36:25
dribble down to there. They gave me my
00:36:27
haircut and I'm sure they they left a
00:36:30
bit like they didn't go near around here
00:36:32
either and but it was just my let's look
00:36:35
sharp or look tidy and and when you can
00:36:38
it was part of that just let's start
00:36:40
getting in proper clothing like I got
00:36:41
Nikki to bring in clothing pretty early
00:36:43
on rather than the the
00:36:45
>> hospital G hospital gown. It was just
00:36:47
one of those things you know like yep
00:36:48
I'm going to have a nice clean t-shirt
00:36:50
on. Well I couldn't really get a t-shirt
00:36:52
over but like clothes on and stuff like
00:36:54
that. So yeah.
00:36:56
>> Um I mean this paints a picture of like
00:36:59
who you are and [clears throat] it's um
00:37:00
you're you're a fairly tough bastard. Do
00:37:02
you do you think um it was tougher for
00:37:04
you or for them?
00:37:07
>> Yeah, I I I always think it's tougher
00:37:09
for other people, you know, like this is
00:37:11
something that I'm in control of and and
00:37:13
I can do. So I was always very mindful
00:37:15
of that. Um
00:37:18
and we've just got to be a bit careful
00:37:20
with how the boys deal with it.
00:37:21
especially my oldest boy um with some of
00:37:25
the thing. He's a really deep thinker
00:37:27
and um they think about it more than
00:37:30
they show. like dropped them off at a
00:37:32
holiday program once and and they met up
00:37:35
with a kid that they obviously didn't
00:37:36
know from school and and they'd been
00:37:38
talking about and they obviously said,
00:37:39
"Oh, dad got shot in the face." And and
00:37:42
and the other kid challenged it like,
00:37:43
"Well, no, no one gets shot in the face
00:37:45
and lives." You know, and and then the
00:37:47
the first thing they say to me when they
00:37:50
get in the car, "Oh, Dad Bo said if you
00:37:52
get shot in the face, you don't live."
00:37:53
And I'm like, "You think I'm think I'm
00:37:55
making this [ __ ] up, mate?" [laughter]
00:37:58
Anyway, oh no, no, no, no. And then we
00:38:00
get home and um they're out on their
00:38:03
skateboard or something and then and
00:38:05
they're like, "Dad, how come nanny told
00:38:08
us it was a it was a BB gun to start off
00:38:10
with?" And it's still them just ch what
00:38:13
what is actually So [snorts] lots go on
00:38:16
in their head. So that's going to be uh
00:38:18
so to answer your question, is it
00:38:20
tougher for them than us? For me, then
00:38:23
it's just as tough. It's just as tough.
00:38:25
Um, and even a Nikki jokes about it, but
00:38:29
suppose I could use this opportunity for
00:38:31
a little bit of a an apology how when I
00:38:34
do get hangry, you know, um, during
00:38:36
those times where I'm not sleeping, not
00:38:38
eating, I'm in a bit [snorts] of pain,
00:38:39
and I guess I wasn't the happiest chap
00:38:42
to be around. So,
00:38:44
>> um, it's tough for them on a on a number
00:38:46
of levels, I think.
00:38:47
>> Yeah, I'm sure they understand. You you
00:38:49
tend to save your worst behavior for the
00:38:50
people you love the most. It's just how
00:38:52
it works.
00:38:52
>> Well, I love them then.
00:38:54
>> Yeah. No. [laughter] Um,
00:38:56
>> yeah, crack into that. Crack into that
00:38:58
Firebird.
00:38:59
>> Um, how did the how did the recovery
00:39:01
log?
00:39:03
>> Um, how many operations?
00:39:06
>> Uh, well, I think I think there's been
00:39:10
about 14 sort of procedures and Jamie
00:39:12
was saying the other day that there was
00:39:14
about six major operations. So, um, a
00:39:19
lot of it was done sort of early days,
00:39:21
uh, with the, um,
00:39:25
sort of the reconstruction and stuff
00:39:26
like that, but a lot of the sort of
00:39:28
teeth work and and the damaged,
00:39:32
um, bone underneath. We've had a couple
00:39:34
of
00:39:36
u uh, attempts at trying to remold it
00:39:40
and and um, Jamie's like, "Well, we just
00:39:43
sort of got to try this." and and it's
00:39:45
sort of new, relatively new sort of
00:39:47
playing field for them, but again, he's
00:39:49
done an amazing job and I'm forever
00:39:51
grateful. So, um yeah, I I suppose it's
00:39:55
just yeah, you're back in and
00:39:58
then you I if I see another soup in my
00:40:01
life, mate. Oh, Jesus. [laughter]
00:40:03
Cuz then you're on the soups and [ __ ]
00:40:06
Um but yeah, so it has hopefully only
00:40:09
one more to go. um
00:40:13
and and then get some teeth and
00:40:16
hopefully get that clearance um full
00:40:20
clearance to go back to my operational
00:40:22
role in the police. So um yeah.
00:40:28
>> Were there ever moments where [ __ ] you
00:40:30
just like alone in the shower or you're
00:40:32
you're out going for a walk or something
00:40:33
and you just have like a quiet cry to
00:40:35
yourself?
00:40:37
>> Yeah. I don't
00:40:40
no I don't think I don't think I have on
00:40:46
on that level and and I'm not concerned
00:40:49
about that but it is something in the
00:40:51
back of my mind of
00:40:53
at the moment how sort of steely I am
00:40:56
about it all and and and sort of how
00:40:59
steely I am to a lot of other things.
00:41:02
Um, I think I have got a lot of empathy
00:41:06
for others and stuff like that, but I've
00:41:09
got a very
00:41:11
that's life, what will be will be
00:41:13
attitude at the moment. Um,
00:41:15
so just another thing that I need to
00:41:17
deal with. So, not so much a
00:41:21
uh something like that. No.
00:41:25
>> Um, what about therapy? Did you see a
00:41:27
therapist after
00:41:28
>> Yeah, I spoke to a psychologist for for
00:41:30
a few rounds and
00:41:31
>> this the first first time this is the
00:41:33
psychologist that you were ignoring
00:41:35
earlier.
00:41:35
>> Wow. Yeah, [laughter]
00:41:38
>> it's going to come back and bite you.
00:41:39
>> Oh, 100%. I was like, "Oh my god." Um,
00:41:43
yeah. No. So, yeah, it was really good
00:41:46
just to
00:41:47
>> I don't know,
00:41:48
>> just offload.
00:41:49
>> Just offload. Absolutely. Did you find
00:41:51
it hard to go in there and talk to a
00:41:53
stranger about some
00:41:54
>> um not so much? This particular
00:41:57
psychologist had spoke to a few of my
00:42:00
colleagues um and and had it was uh is a
00:42:05
police or or
00:42:08
um works with the police um and
00:42:10
incidents like this and and others. So I
00:42:14
was sort of comfortable enough that
00:42:15
she'd sort of understood. But what I did
00:42:19
like about it was
00:42:21
she was
00:42:24
not being all airy fairy about it. Um, I
00:42:26
know you need a bit of eerie fairy, but
00:42:28
she was like, cuz I was like, stuff
00:42:30
this. I want I want back, you know, and
00:42:32
she was like that this is this is how
00:42:33
you wide, you know, and people are
00:42:36
telling you that, oh, this that and the
00:42:38
other and man, you can't go. And I'm
00:42:40
like, I remember driving to a
00:42:43
psychologist one day and I and I had my
00:42:45
work phone there and when you get a
00:42:47
pager, it goes,
00:42:49
those who know will know. And um I
00:42:52
started exhilarating and and I was like
00:42:54
starting to drive towards the squad
00:42:55
room. I was like I was like, "Holy, I'm
00:42:58
driving to my therapist after being shot
00:43:01
in the face and I'm still trying to hone
00:43:02
in to get to a bit of action, you know,
00:43:04
or [laughter] and I'm like, "Oh [ __ ] I
00:43:06
told her this." And she's like, "Oh man,
00:43:08
like it's just it's
00:43:11
it's
00:43:13
abnormally normal, you know?" And and
00:43:15
that's what I did like about that. Um, I
00:43:17
didn't like any eerie fairy stuff and
00:43:19
just acknowledged what I was saying. So,
00:43:21
it was really good.
00:43:23
>> Any sort of PTSD or anything?
00:43:26
>> Uh, I can't say at the moment. No. Um,
00:43:31
>> no. I just have to be mindful how much
00:43:33
I'm parking underneath the lid. Um,
00:43:37
but not so much. I've got a yeah, a
00:43:40
great family. my whole family, my
00:43:42
friends, uh my my work colleagues and
00:43:46
mates and and we've got a small small
00:43:49
group of like-minded individuals that
00:43:51
have been through some stuff together
00:43:53
and we occasionally go away and
00:43:56
have a couple of rums and let a bit out
00:43:58
and and that's that's I see that pretty
00:44:00
healthy as well. So
00:44:03
>> the um the gunman uh 24 year old I
00:44:06
believe he he killed two of his
00:44:07
colleagues and there were like 10
00:44:09
injured in total. Um, and then he turned
00:44:11
the gun on himself. How how do you how
00:44:14
do you feel about him? Like is is it
00:44:16
anger, indifference?
00:44:18
>> Yeah. Uh,
00:44:19
>> you hate the guy?
00:44:20
>> No. No. No. Um, and this is going to
00:44:23
sound weird to be honest. And
00:44:27
um, no, I don't. Like one one thing that
00:44:30
sort of got me a little bit was it was
00:44:32
months after cuz I didn't know who and
00:44:34
and and I'm not even going to even go go
00:44:37
there as much but when I saw his 24 I
00:44:39
was like man what a waste you know like
00:44:42
uh but and this is going to I don't know
00:44:45
how this gets taken but but I don't you
00:44:48
know like
00:44:50
um I've never been one to
00:44:53
hold that like terrible decisions
00:44:57
terrible decisions
00:44:59
to say the least. But absolutely no
00:45:02
resentment or and and
00:45:06
the the the loved ones of the people
00:45:08
that didn't make it might feel different
00:45:09
and and and and rightly so. For me, I
00:45:14
think part of moving forward is
00:45:17
um uh not holding on to that. That's
00:45:20
that's just for me. And um Nikki sort of
00:45:23
summed it up quite well and and sort of
00:45:27
um put it probably is the same way that
00:45:31
I look at it that um I don't believe he
00:45:34
was
00:45:36
shooting a father, a husband, a child,
00:45:41
a friend like Yeah. in a in a in a
00:45:45
personal way like that. And
00:45:47
>> and I suppose that's one way just to go
00:45:49
well.
00:45:51
>> Yeah, it that's what happened. And um
00:45:56
yeah. No,
00:45:59
>> [ __ ] You've got a good attitude. Um
00:46:01
Nikki must be so proud of you. Is she?
00:46:03
>> Oh, I I think so. I think so. But um
00:46:07
>> not just for what you've what you've
00:46:08
been through, but um just how you've
00:46:10
grown as a person in um in the recovery
00:46:13
since then.
00:46:15
>> Yeah. Well,
00:46:17
yeah. I I hope so. Um, at the end of the
00:46:21
day, and and I've said it, I get up in
00:46:23
the morning for Nikki and the boys. So,
00:46:25
I hope those I hope they [laughter]
00:46:29
and and and I'd do anything for them,
00:46:31
you know. Um, but still acknowledging
00:46:33
that along the way that it's been
00:46:35
challenging cuz you said at the start
00:46:37
that you you take
00:46:40
take your your grumpiness and on the
00:46:42
ones you love, right? like her. Um but
00:46:45
hopefully I still Yeah, still working on
00:46:49
on everything. But um she
00:46:52
>> Yeah, I think she's proud.
00:46:54
>> Are you proud of yourself?
00:46:56
>> Um
00:47:00
yeah. Well, I think I'll look back at it
00:47:03
and be proud on how we've how I've I've
00:47:07
handled it and and I I think and I hope
00:47:10
that's going to be seen through the way
00:47:12
that the kids grow up um and the people
00:47:15
that I sort of
00:47:18
um associate with and our community and
00:47:20
my family and stuff like that if if
00:47:23
they're proud. Um but it's just
00:47:28
yeah it's a unique circumstances and I
00:47:31
acknowledge that now um but also in the
00:47:34
same vein I acknowledge that
00:47:38
uh we all go through our [ __ ] you know
00:47:40
we all go through tough times um and
00:47:43
this is nowhere near some of the battles
00:47:46
that people have been through are going
00:47:48
through and will go through. Uh [snorts]
00:47:50
but I tell the I I tell the yarn to give
00:47:54
if I can a little bit of hope of of
00:47:57
yeah, don't look back, you'll get a
00:47:58
crook neck and and be grateful for what
00:48:00
you've got. Don't dwell the whatifs and
00:48:03
um and and a little bit of hope that
00:48:05
like
00:48:07
Firebird
00:48:09
is
00:48:10
an illustration of getting up and keep
00:48:14
moving and and and and working through a
00:48:17
little bit of adversity. So, um
00:48:21
I hope in my latter years I can look
00:48:24
back if I'm lucky enough to get there
00:48:26
and be proud of of this period of my
00:48:29
life. But it is a period of my life and
00:48:32
and and I'm excited to what could be the
00:48:35
next
00:48:36
>> thing, you know. Um
00:48:38
um I'm just grateful that I've got the
00:48:40
opportunity to give it a go.
00:48:42
>> Yeah. Well, we're almost 50 minutes in.
00:48:44
We haven't even touched upon Firebird
00:48:45
yet, so we'll we'll get to that chapter.
00:48:47
But um
00:48:48
>> yeah, just I mean just sitting in front
00:48:50
of you and and um yeah, listening to you
00:48:52
speak, I can tell you would have been a
00:48:53
a great cop.
00:48:54
>> What um what drew you to the police in
00:48:56
the first place?
00:48:57
>> Um fast cars and catching bad guys. No,
00:49:00
[laughter]
00:49:01
there's an element of that. No, I won't
00:49:02
be. But I I I I think an underlining
00:49:05
drive to to to help people. And I won't
00:49:08
go there like I'm this big special
00:49:10
person that gets up every morning to
00:49:12
help people. But at the end of the day
00:49:14
when when you do see a victim that sort
00:49:17
of, oh, thank you for your involvement
00:49:18
or you turn up to a they might not even
00:49:21
have to say it, but you turn up to an
00:49:22
incident where that's it's one of their
00:49:24
worst days of their life and you can
00:49:26
positively impact that by some of your
00:49:28
decision making, your calm head. And
00:49:29
that's what draws me back, I think, of
00:49:32
that real adrenaline of turning up to
00:49:34
chaos. Um, and and having a a calm,
00:49:39
controlled manner in the way that you
00:49:41
react to that. Um, and and and that's
00:49:45
got to be a drive, too. Like at the end
00:49:48
of it, you've helped someone out. Um, as
00:49:51
I said, they might not say that they
00:49:53
they thank you, but they've sort of got
00:49:54
a look in their eye. And um and and when
00:49:58
it comes to some of the the tough stuff
00:50:00
when you're advising family members or
00:50:03
that there's suicides or you're dealing
00:50:05
with victims of very serious harm, if
00:50:09
you how would you like your family
00:50:11
members or loved ones to be dealt with
00:50:13
by by the police, by authorities, and if
00:50:16
you can show empathy and be empathetic
00:50:19
for their situation without having been
00:50:21
in it, that's a really nice feeling,
00:50:23
too. So, um, lots of things that sort of
00:50:27
Yep. Um, bad guys, fast cars, cool
00:50:32
stuff. But, but the underlining is,
00:50:34
[clears throat] I think, truly is to to
00:50:36
try and help people.
00:50:38
>> Does that piece get easier knocking on
00:50:40
someone's door and telling someone that
00:50:42
a family member or a loved one has
00:50:44
passed away?
00:50:44
>> Yeah. Abs. Absolutely not. And then
00:50:46
there's just different times in your
00:50:47
life too. Like prek kids
00:50:50
might certainly wouldn't have been as
00:50:52
bad as if you you turn up now and you
00:50:54
you're dealing with someone that's
00:50:57
roughly your kid's age and going through
00:50:58
it. But um just yeah what the what
00:51:03
emergency services do and and this is my
00:51:06
part but that's what they have to do on
00:51:08
on the other side of it that I think
00:51:10
isn't quite understood some the time
00:51:13
without going into that part of it but
00:51:15
like there there are some stuff that the
00:51:17
police uh in particular have to do that
00:51:21
that isn't seen on the outside um that
00:51:24
that we have to deal with and work
00:51:25
through and and 99.9%
00:51:28
% of uh the time we're really doing it
00:51:32
for for for the right reasons and and
00:51:34
the good reasons. So yeah.
00:51:37
>> What was the worst day on the job before
00:51:39
July 2023?
00:51:42
>> Well, it's funny cuz sometimes the worst
00:51:44
days are the best days. Um
00:51:47
uh
00:51:48
yeah, like someone has to have a bad day
00:51:51
for you to have a good day, but
00:51:53
[laughter] um it's it's it's not the
00:51:55
case. But that there were
00:51:59
I think back and and I'm fortunate that
00:52:02
this most recent incident sort of
00:52:04
happened um
00:52:07
in my career and the time of my life as
00:52:09
it did to help me deal with it. But like
00:52:12
we we had been sort of we'd been shot at
00:52:16
multiple times prior to this incident.
00:52:18
We been in situations where pretty
00:52:21
pretty hairy situations, you know, and
00:52:22
and but I think you again build
00:52:25
resilience out of those and coming out
00:52:26
the other side. But from a from a a
00:52:29
really difficult point of view, would
00:52:31
have been about 4 years into the job. I'
00:52:32
I'd been to about five or six really bad
00:52:35
suicides in a week. And um
00:52:38
>> Wow.
00:52:38
>> I went away from there and and and and I
00:52:42
was only I be mid to late 20s at that
00:52:45
time. And um I started getting these
00:52:47
heart pulpitations and I I was I was
00:52:51
really concerned. you know, I went to
00:52:52
the doctor and they did all my sort of
00:52:55
um my vitals. They took me to to
00:52:58
Middlemore and and and over a span of
00:53:00
about a couple of weeks and did all this
00:53:02
testing. And then I got called into the
00:53:04
doctors and
00:53:05
>> [snorts]
00:53:06
>> uh he said to me, "Oh, um look, you you
00:53:10
you're physically absolutely fine.
00:53:12
You're very very healthy."
00:53:14
I was thinking, "Well, why am I getting
00:53:16
these bloody go on mate? That ain't
00:53:19
normal. Why?" And then
00:53:21
and then I drive home and and I'm going
00:53:24
down Tangi Drive and I go what's what's
00:53:27
cuz I'm I really try and be quite
00:53:29
practical like reason
00:53:31
and and and I and I I identified that
00:53:34
these heart pulpitations started
00:53:38
immediately after this really quite
00:53:40
tough week. Um and since identifying
00:53:43
that I I hadn't had one since. Um, so
00:53:47
and and and I got to say like there are
00:53:49
heart problems and you need it's not
00:53:51
just in your head but on this particular
00:53:53
occasion that was that anxiety or
00:53:56
whatever it was manifesting in a
00:53:58
physical manner. Um, and then for the
00:54:00
rest of my career I hadn't had one and
00:54:02
then I think
00:54:05
I think maybe once since this most
00:54:08
recent incident I started having them
00:54:10
again but was able to flick it back
00:54:12
over. So, um,
00:54:15
yeah, I don't know. They just sort of
00:54:16
mold you and make you who you are today.
00:54:18
But, um, yeah,
00:54:27
it's a crazy job, eh? I mean, it's a job
00:54:28
that someone has to do, but like I'm I'm
00:54:31
52. The only time I've seen a dead body
00:54:32
is my nana in an open casket. You were
00:54:34
just dealing with this on a daily.
00:54:37
>> You as in the New Zealand police.
00:54:39
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is. and and and you
00:54:42
you hear it from a number of police
00:54:45
emergency services staff. You see, you
00:54:47
have to deal with things that um
00:54:51
that a lot of the public just have no
00:54:52
idea
00:54:54
it is part of society. Um
00:54:57
like who would have thought that you had
00:54:59
to carry do you carry Vaseline around in
00:55:01
your in your day bag just in case you
00:55:03
come across a decomposing dead body, you
00:55:06
put a bit of Vaseline on your upper lip
00:55:08
so you don't have to smell it. You know,
00:55:09
like there's
00:55:10
>> Oh, Vix Vex. rubber. [laughter] Rubber.
00:55:12
>> Yeah. On the upper lip. So, you don't
00:55:14
have to smell some bad smells, but at
00:55:17
the end of the day, again, um
00:55:21
well, I won't say you're privileged and
00:55:23
in dealing with it, but someone's got to
00:55:25
do it right. Um and if you can do it to
00:55:27
the best of your ability, then [snorts]
00:55:29
um that that's going to be telling for
00:55:31
for the family and and the loved ones of
00:55:34
whatever you're dealing with. So,
00:55:35
>> did you ever consider the army or SAS or
00:55:38
anything?
00:55:39
>> No, not so much. I feel like you would
00:55:40
have been you you would have you would
00:55:42
have frothed at something like hell
00:55:43
week.
00:55:44
>> Yeah. Well, it floats my boat. I was a
00:55:46
cabinet maker before becoming before
00:55:49
joining the police and and I love that.
00:55:51
Um sort of just came to the end of
00:55:54
[snorts] where that was at that time and
00:55:56
um with with a lot of the imports our
00:55:58
our solid wood furniture um it was just
00:56:03
being less desirable because it was too
00:56:04
expensive and you can get cheaper
00:56:06
option. But I I love that too. today
00:56:07
though. Um
00:56:10
>> so so after the shooting um you're
00:56:12
recovering and then I mean why didn't
00:56:14
you just go back to cabinet making?
00:56:17
>> Um
00:56:19
oh that that that's that's passed. I've
00:56:22
got
00:56:22
>> Mhm.
00:56:22
>> Well, I could fill in my time with
00:56:24
Firebird cuz I I wanted to go back to
00:56:26
police
00:56:29
very early on and I and I sort of tried
00:56:31
to but then realized that the the
00:56:34
recovery process and everything that
00:56:36
needed to be done was going to be
00:56:37
longer.
00:56:38
>> Um but in those early days sort of
00:56:41
[snorts] yeah we were came up with fiber
00:56:43
that sort of filled that hole at that
00:56:45
time. Yeah, I suppose that's why I ask
00:56:46
about the cabinet making thing because
00:56:48
um after going through something as
00:56:49
traumatic as that, I suppose the easiest
00:56:50
thing to do would be something you
00:56:51
already know, something that you used to
00:56:53
do instead of like launching a business.
00:56:56
>> Like come on. Especially in the beverage
00:56:58
space, like it's an impossibly
00:57:00
competitive market.
00:57:01
>> Okay, so yeah, let's get on to this now.
00:57:03
So um
00:57:05
>> yeah, how does a cop who gets um shot in
00:57:07
the jaw um suddenly end up creating a
00:57:10
protein coffee brand?
00:57:11
>> Oh, isn't that the logical thing to do?
00:57:15
my go back to cabinet making.
00:57:16
>> Yeah. Yeah. No. Okay. Okay. Um, no. So,
00:57:20
so when I was recovering, so I had a
00:57:23
large hole in my face as you could
00:57:25
probably imagine. I couldn't eat like I
00:57:28
couldn't chew. I couldn't have hot
00:57:29
stuff. One, I don't know if it was the
00:57:31
thermal burns, but also like I couldn't
00:57:33
feel in there. So, I was a little bit
00:57:35
dangerous to have hot stuff cuz I
00:57:36
wouldn't be able to have any feeling.
00:57:39
And I couldn't drink large. like when I
00:57:41
was drinking I I we talked earlier about
00:57:43
having a bib cuz I did it would just end
00:57:45
up down the front of me half of it would
00:57:47
go in the rest of it was down the front
00:57:49
of me and um so I started and and I've
00:57:52
always always like coffee if I if I get
00:57:55
to 9 10:00 without a coffee I get a sort
00:57:58
of a headache or something like that. So
00:58:00
caffeine's always and coffee has always
00:58:02
been part of my lifestyle and protein
00:58:04
has too. Um and and knowing the
00:58:06
importance of protein as a macronutrient
00:58:09
or um something that we need young, old,
00:58:12
other. So I've always been I've always
00:58:15
taken supplementary uh protein. So
00:58:17
anyway, I couldn't just have coffee and
00:58:20
and I wanted to get this protein in. So
00:58:22
I started making them at home. So, in my
00:58:24
shaker, a little bit of ice, um a pod,
00:58:28
coffee, um a little bit of water, and a
00:58:30
scoop of protein. And I was living off
00:58:31
these things and went into the surgeon
00:58:35
one day and he goes, "Oh, you your your
00:58:37
recoveries are remarkable." Or something
00:58:39
along those lines. Really, really good
00:58:40
or whatever it may be. And I was sort of
00:58:42
ingested, oh, it's the protein coffees,
00:58:44
Doc. And had a bit of a laugh. Anyway, I
00:58:46
was living off these things and wanted
00:58:49
to go back to the police and it was
00:58:51
going to be longer than I wanted to
00:58:53
because I'm I'm I'm relatively impatient
00:58:55
in this sort of stuff, I must admit. But
00:58:57
[snorts]
00:58:58
so, and Nikki tells the story how I I
00:59:02
would have been
00:59:04
high on on prescription Tremodol
00:59:07
after an operation and and I sort of was
00:59:09
lying on the couch and I was I said to
00:59:11
her, I'm [snorts] I'm going to make
00:59:12
protein coffee. And she sort of I
00:59:15
remember it. She rolled her eyes.
00:59:17
She couldn't hide it. She rolled her
00:59:19
eyes and was like, "Ah, you pro, you
00:59:20
probably are."
00:59:21
>> How long after the shooting was this?
00:59:23
>> Uh, this would have only been uh 8
00:59:26
months. I think I created the business
00:59:31
in February, March 2024.
00:59:34
>> Incredible. Cuz most people would have
00:59:36
this idea. 99% of people would have the
00:59:38
idea and then just leave it at that.
00:59:40
>> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Wow.
00:59:41
>> But where do where do you begin?
00:59:43
>> Yeah. Well, and and that's just it
00:59:44
because it was beginning. I've got no
00:59:46
experience in in grocery, no experience
00:59:50
in business.
00:59:51
>> Are there any transferable skills
00:59:52
between poling and
00:59:54
>> I think so. Like communication being
00:59:56
one. I said I'm not a good at
00:59:57
communicator, but when when we're
00:59:59
talking back and forth, I think being
01:00:01
open in your communication is very very
01:00:04
important. I think those uh like some of
01:00:07
the values that we we hold in the police
01:00:10
and personal personally around um
01:00:12
honesty, integrity um
01:00:16
transfer over as well. Um
01:00:18
>> but that's probably where it stops to be
01:00:20
honest. You can communicate um well and
01:00:25
um you're always being very honest which
01:00:27
seems to resonate with people too. Um
01:00:30
but also the the ability to go into a
01:00:34
space
01:00:35
not knowing anything and taking in
01:00:38
everything that's given like and
01:00:40
sponging.
01:00:41
>> I think that resonates with people too.
01:00:43
Like you're not going in with a
01:00:44
preconceived this that or the other. You
01:00:46
go in and you [snorts] sponge it back.
01:00:48
So how did it start? It started with a
01:00:51
brand name and we went through multiple
01:00:54
and then we landed on Firebird and
01:00:56
Firebird being another name for the
01:00:58
Phoenix and rising up from the ashes and
01:01:00
it was always my intention to
01:01:03
um hide behind the bird as such. And
01:01:05
that can just be the front of my story,
01:01:07
you know, rather than having my name or
01:01:10
face attached to it, which has changed
01:01:12
dramatically. Um
01:01:14
>> here we are today.
01:01:15
>> Oh no. Oh [laughter] no, I failed. Um
01:01:18
see you. Yeah. Um and uh so created
01:01:22
that. But then there it's just
01:01:26
like like even looking at this and
01:01:28
seeing the barcode like you need to buy
01:01:31
that barcode and then you have to buy
01:01:32
the the image of the barcode and then
01:01:35
you have to have all these regulations
01:01:37
around the ingredients on there and
01:01:39
bolded allergen and and then I just
01:01:42
started talking to people about design
01:01:44
and and that's how we we've got a
01:01:46
massive protein coffee written on the
01:01:48
front with 16 grams of protein, double
01:01:49
shot of coffee and and low sugar. It's
01:01:51
all written there because [snorts]
01:01:54
that's what people need to know. It's a
01:01:56
new product. It's something completely
01:01:59
new. Um, and then we've gone in and
01:02:01
thrown in uh original or toffee flavor
01:02:04
cuz I I saw it sitting in between sort
01:02:06
of your chilled coffees and your your
01:02:08
protein drinks. Um, so instead of having
01:02:11
a latte or mocka, we've gone with
01:02:13
original cuz it's an original protein
01:02:14
coffee at the time. We were the first um
01:02:18
uh protein coffee in New Zealand and and
01:02:20
and I I don't maybe the world um and we
01:02:25
needed to spell that out. So, it's just
01:02:27
about asking questions, talking to
01:02:29
people, marketing people, and and this
01:02:31
is what we've come up with. So, um yeah,
01:02:34
really passionate about this now.
01:02:36
>> Yeah. Oh, I can tell. I can tell. Um and
01:02:38
you you you've achieved so much while
01:02:40
recovering from this um like hugely
01:02:42
traumatic um thing and in a really short
01:02:45
period of time as well.
01:02:46
>> Yeah.
01:02:46
>> How many how many staff on the Firebear
01:02:48
team now?
01:02:50
>> Uh you're looking at it really
01:02:51
>> really I say that but I've I've had a
01:02:55
huge amount of help uh along the way.
01:02:57
So, um during like um I'm I'm not
01:03:02
working at the moment apart from being
01:03:04
here cuz I'm still recovering from my
01:03:06
last operation and and then the fatigue
01:03:09
and stuff that comes from that. So, I've
01:03:11
had a huge amount of help that picking
01:03:13
up uh what needs to be done earlier in
01:03:16
this year. I had a bit of a period where
01:03:18
I could actually set up systems and
01:03:20
processes. So, our product goes from our
01:03:22
contract manufacturers to um third party
01:03:26
logistics in Oakland and Christ Church,
01:03:28
but the operations sort of the the
01:03:30
operations side of it sort of runs
01:03:32
itself and then we've got people that
01:03:34
sort of work on that and and that's been
01:03:37
key for me to be able to recover. um
01:03:41
because that's the primary job at the
01:03:45
moment is to recover and [snorts] um so
01:03:48
I've yeah been fortunate to have some
01:03:50
good people help out and some good
01:03:52
companies and yeah
01:03:54
>> starting any new business is is
01:03:55
terrifying um you're not sure if you're
01:03:58
pumping it money into something that's
01:03:59
going to work or it's not going to work
01:04:01
especially when you're on unpaid leave
01:04:02
like how much did the initial investment
01:04:04
cost you can you can you answer that or
01:04:06
what
01:04:06
>> uh it cost a little bit um
01:04:09
>> like a hundred 50.
01:04:10
>> Uh, yeah, a little bit. I'm not going to
01:04:12
disclose how much we've pumped into it,
01:04:14
but
01:04:14
>> it's a big gamble on yourself, isn't it?
01:04:16
>> Yeah, it is. But I'm going to sit here
01:04:18
today and say you only live once, right?
01:04:21
>> No regrets. Um,
01:04:23
>> and I suppose going through something
01:04:24
that you [laughter] went through really
01:04:25
sort of crystallizes that.
01:04:26
>> Yeah. And and I I think
01:04:29
um
01:04:30
Yeah. There's a cost for
01:04:35
I need to recover. This took my mind off
01:04:38
some stuff
01:04:39
>> and gave me a little bit of purpose
01:04:42
while while I was recovering as well,
01:04:45
you know, while I couldn't go back to
01:04:46
the police and [snorts] I've got a very
01:04:48
active active mind, so it can't just sit
01:04:52
dormant for too long. Um,
01:04:55
so it's it's it's done more than just be
01:04:59
the start of a business, but now we're
01:05:01
at a point in the businesses in a in a
01:05:03
really really good place that it's got
01:05:05
some great foundations. And I'm really
01:05:08
really confident and and positive around
01:05:11
what what Firebird could be. And one of
01:05:13
the other reasons making it that that it
01:05:15
provides a like a healthy alternative to
01:05:18
some of the other energy drinks and what
01:05:20
may or may not be in those um with with
01:05:23
being a coffee with with the
01:05:24
antioxidants and energy that way. So
01:05:27
[snorts] um yeah, watch this space.
01:05:31
>> But the the um the beverage space is
01:05:33
like super super crowded. You got to go
01:05:35
to Countdown Woolworths or New World and
01:05:38
uh you just look at that beverage aisle
01:05:39
and it's crazy. Like how h how have you
01:05:41
managed to get it? um stopped in so many
01:05:44
places just for a personality.
01:05:47
>> I'd like to say that but it's probably
01:05:48
not true. Um our our first breakthrough
01:05:52
and I and I can say this so it's through
01:05:54
the food [snorts] stuffs um emerge
01:05:56
competition. So we we won highly
01:05:59
recommended with that and that came with
01:06:00
some some compulsory ranging through the
01:06:03
North Island and then it's off the back
01:06:04
of that that we could sort of show some
01:06:06
rate of sale but also start that that
01:06:10
building from there. And uh we've always
01:06:13
um had a a a strategy of where we want
01:06:15
to be to in 6 12 18 months and we seem
01:06:19
to be ticking off those as as we go
01:06:21
through. But um you you're dead right.
01:06:24
The the space is incredibly competitive.
01:06:28
Um and there are great products out
01:06:31
there. There's great innovation out
01:06:32
there. um it's run by uh two or three
01:06:36
big companies that generally uh dictate
01:06:39
a few things that go on in certain
01:06:41
fridges and and they they've earned the
01:06:44
right to to do that. But um
01:06:47
what I think is cut through a little bit
01:06:50
is that it is it has got points of
01:06:54
difference, you know, like 16 g of
01:06:56
protein in 250 mil can with a double
01:06:59
shot of coffee 150 mg. But a point of
01:07:02
difference being that it's got only got
01:07:04
0.8 g of sugar in both of our flavors.
01:07:07
So, um, you don't get that.
01:07:10
>> You're a salesman, aren't you?
01:07:11
>> Yeah. I can tell you're passionate about
01:07:14
it.
01:07:14
>> Oh, well. Well, it is it's a it's a
01:07:16
healthy alternative. And I'm not saying
01:07:18
go and not have this and have this. It's
01:07:20
just providing another opportunity. But
01:07:22
the feedback that we're getting from
01:07:24
customers around there was a lovely one
01:07:27
the other day, an email around pre- a
01:07:29
lady pre-d diabetic and she was on a a
01:07:33
reader or something like that and um and
01:07:36
and alongside a healthy keto diet now
01:07:38
she she's no longer pre-diabetic but
01:07:41
part of her sort of daily thing is
01:07:43
Firebird and she said there was no
01:07:45
insulin spike off the back of drinking
01:07:47
Firebird. I'm like, man, that's bigger
01:07:50
than just a drink, you know? That's
01:07:52
awesome. And and emergency services
01:07:54
staff in the middle of the night or
01:07:56
people going, "Oh, it gets me through."
01:07:58
That's how our um our slogan or or thing
01:08:03
crush the midday slump has come about
01:08:05
from the feedback that we're getting.
01:08:07
People using it late morning, early
01:08:09
afternoon, uh without the another coffee
01:08:12
that's just going to go up and down.
01:08:13
It's got the protein attached and and
01:08:15
the sugar. um is very very low so you
01:08:19
don't get that insulin up and and that
01:08:21
spike. So um man I I look
01:08:26
beyond the product in itself and and
01:08:29
it's a really it's a really cool
01:08:31
product. It's a great product and and
01:08:32
and some of the stories and feedback is
01:08:36
yeah another reason why you can keep
01:08:38
going as well.
01:08:40
>> Can you remember the first time you saw
01:08:41
you saw a can in the wild like in the
01:08:44
>> We call it that too. Yeah. In the wild.
01:08:45
Yeah. Absolutely. And always get a real
01:08:47
real good buzz even at the gym the other
01:08:49
day. Uh I think I was on the treadmill
01:08:52
or something and and and a chap walked
01:08:54
up next to me and he had a Firebird in
01:08:57
his hand and he sort of just looked over
01:08:58
said like he had no idea who I was and
01:09:00
he was just drinking his Firebird and I
01:09:02
was like man that's it's pretty cool you
01:09:06
know.
01:09:07
>> Yeah. So it's in the wild.
01:09:09
>> Yeah. cuz one of the one of the team in
01:09:10
the office just when you came in before
01:09:11
she used to work at MOTAT and she said
01:09:13
uh it's in the vending machine there and
01:09:14
I I I don't think you were aware of it
01:09:16
but you you seem to get um real chuffed
01:09:18
about it.
01:09:19
>> Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And
01:09:21
because of how how difficult it is to
01:09:22
get out there and the fact that there is
01:09:25
so much choice out there as you've
01:09:27
already alluded to that people are
01:09:29
picking up Firebird protein coffee, you
01:09:31
know, and we've got to a point in our
01:09:33
sort of cycle that we need to um we need
01:09:37
to get it in people's mouths and tasting
01:09:39
it because it's a unique product because
01:09:41
it's in unique flavors. we're at that
01:09:43
point that people are interested, but
01:09:46
like I'll be at a a show or someone
01:09:48
Nikki will be at a show and she'll give
01:09:50
feedback that people will come up and
01:09:51
say, "Hey, I've seen this at a a
01:09:54
[snorts] New World or wherever, but they
01:09:56
haven't tried it." Because if you if you
01:09:58
spend five bucks and and you don't like
01:10:00
it, you're like, "But
01:10:02
they have have a sample and oh, this is
01:10:05
great. I'm going to buy it now." Or
01:10:06
they'll buy a fourack or whatever. So,
01:10:08
um yeah, it's just that evolving
01:10:11
growth. um which requires different
01:10:14
things at different time. Um so yeah,
01:10:17
>> have you have you been able to start
01:10:18
paying yourself yet?
01:10:20
>> Oh no,
01:10:21
>> I'm good. I'm pleased about that. This
01:10:23
um the studio we're in today, this is um
01:10:26
a company I set up called Pod Lab, and
01:10:27
it's been going a year now. We've
01:10:29
managed to grow the team, but no, I yet
01:10:31
to pay myself.
01:10:32
>> Yeah.
01:10:33
>> So I would have been pissed off if
01:10:35
>> Oh yeah, please. No, abs can barely pay
01:10:39
all the other people doing the actual
01:10:41
work. I'm just the ones that come in and
01:10:42
sit in a podcast. I won't get anything
01:10:44
for that.
01:10:45
>> What's what's the um what's the big
01:10:47
vision for it? Like where do you see it
01:10:48
in say 5 years?
01:10:51
>> Um
01:10:53
yeah,
01:10:54
broadly speaking, cuz we are
01:10:56
distributing and and into
01:11:00
uh the the the Cook Islands and Fiji. Uh
01:11:03
we're growing our distribution through
01:11:05
New Zealand, but still a lot of work to
01:11:06
to to sort of educate people about it
01:11:09
and and grow that and repay our
01:11:12
retailers that have given faith in us to
01:11:14
put us in their fridges and um and
01:11:17
shelves. Um we've sort of got a little
01:11:19
bit of product in North America um and
01:11:23
got a partnership with distributors over
01:11:25
there with some product over there. Um
01:11:28
and that seems well that is going really
01:11:30
really well. Um, and then there's
01:11:32
obviously Australia. So, um, I think the
01:11:36
the potential for this product, um, and
01:11:39
this brand is huge. Um, how it gets to
01:11:45
that status, um, is just planned six
01:11:48
months at a time. Um, and, uh, yeah,
01:11:52
it's exciting. However,
01:11:54
the brand or we get there.
01:11:57
>> Why Why do you want to go back to the
01:11:58
place? You're on to a really good thing
01:12:00
here, right? Like you look at what
01:12:01
you've achieved in a real short space of
01:12:02
time.
01:12:03
>> Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. But I
01:12:07
Yeah. And and it seems to bedazzle
01:12:09
people, you know, like but there's just
01:12:12
nothing like
01:12:14
the thrill that you get when you're in
01:12:17
that uniform and when you're doing
01:12:19
something to help people, help your
01:12:22
colleagues.
01:12:24
>> Yeah. I I just haven't got it past it
01:12:26
just yet. What what capacity I go back
01:12:28
in, I don't know. But um I just I'm I'm
01:12:32
not willing and not able just to draw
01:12:34
the line in that sand just at the
01:12:35
moment.
01:12:38
>> Fair enough.
01:12:40
>> Um yeah, you were nervous when you first
01:12:42
came in here. How's it been so far?
01:12:45
>> As I said, it's once I get going, I
01:12:48
don't mind sharing it. It's and it comes
01:12:50
back to the
01:12:51
>> once I leave here I'll feel like [ __ ]
01:12:52
too because now I've just gone and put
01:12:55
my face and told my story and whenever
01:12:58
it gets aired I I'll I'll feel [ __ ]
01:13:00
about it. I'm like oh I don't deserve to
01:13:02
be on Dom's podcast and like there's
01:13:05
some cool people out there and uh but uh
01:13:09
yeah it's all good.
01:13:11
>> I know I think you it's it's pretty
01:13:13
inspiring. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's a
01:13:15
huge loss to New Zealand police. I can
01:13:16
tell you would have been awesome at your
01:13:18
job.
01:13:18
>> Yeah. Well,
01:13:20
like everything else, I try hard.
01:13:22
Whether that transpired into
01:13:24
>> being good or not, I suppose that's up
01:13:26
to the
01:13:28
>> the my colleagues and and people that
01:13:29
I've dealt with over the years to judge.
01:13:32
>> Um, what's the big thing you've learned
01:13:34
about resilience that you wish everyone
01:13:35
knew?
01:13:38
[sighs]
01:13:39
[gasps]
01:13:39
>> Everyone could have it.
01:13:41
Um,
01:13:43
it's it's not just there for people that
01:13:45
are willing to
01:13:48
uh put [snorts] on heavy weights and run
01:13:52
around the the bushes or do what some of
01:13:55
us do. It can be for everyone. And
01:13:59
>> a lot of the times, and that's why I
01:14:01
brought that point up about building
01:14:03
mental resilience through physical
01:14:05
exercise because that is a prevention,
01:14:08
uh, rather than at the bottom of the
01:14:09
cliff when we're having to be grateful
01:14:10
or
01:14:11
>> dwelling the whatifs or having to talk
01:14:14
to people. if we if we've got a base
01:14:15
that we can build up now, whether it be
01:14:18
[ __ ] it's it's raining outside, but I'm
01:14:20
still going to go for that little run or
01:14:23
man, I don't want to have to go and have
01:14:25
that conversation with that person
01:14:27
because it's hard. Um,
01:14:30
everyone can do that regardless. And
01:14:32
it's not. Yeah. I I I use an example of
01:14:35
physical exercise because
01:14:38
it's one that you can do in a controlled
01:14:40
manner, right? Before it gets to a point
01:14:42
where you're going to have to be
01:14:44
resilient in an uncontrolled
01:14:46
environment. You can control like uh the
01:14:49
the physical exercise or exertion that
01:14:51
you're doing. And that that one relates
01:14:53
to me. But it's even um
01:14:57
having that discussion with your
01:14:59
partner, your boss, your colleague, your
01:15:01
coming and sitting and doing a podcast.
01:15:03
Um really hard at the time, but I'm
01:15:06
going to say feel bad after when I
01:15:09
leave. I'm going to also feel that [ __ ]
01:15:11
I didn't want to do that, but I did it.
01:15:13
Um and what will be will be. Um so yeah.
01:15:18
>> Yeah. Do you get like a a vulnerability
01:15:19
hangover? So you'll be driving home and
01:15:21
you'll be like, "Oh, why did I say
01:15:23
that?"
01:15:24
>> Odd regrettable episode, you reckon?
01:15:26
[laughter]
01:15:26
>> Um,
01:15:28
>> yeah. Yeah, maybe.
01:15:29
>> No, I think it's been a great episode.
01:15:31
Um, yeah. If I go on someone else's
01:15:33
podcast, I'll be driving. I'll be like,
01:15:35
"Oh, why did I say that?" [laughter]
01:15:37
>> When when people call you brave or
01:15:38
heroic, how does how does that sit with
01:15:40
you? uh not that great to be honest be
01:15:43
because of and I hope I've made it very
01:15:45
very clear that uh emergency services
01:15:48
staff my my mates my colleagues they're
01:15:51
doing this on a day-to-day basis because
01:15:52
I got whacked in the face
01:15:55
um doesn't make me any braver or heroic
01:15:58
than anyone else that ran into that
01:16:00
building that day. It doesn't make me
01:16:01
any brave or heroic that's out there
01:16:04
doing some stuff that goes unagnowledged
01:16:07
out there. So, um, uh, but what I can
01:16:12
say is how how I've bounced back from
01:16:14
it. That's something that I can control
01:16:16
and,
01:16:17
>> [snorts]
01:16:17
>> um, hopefully that can show people that,
01:16:20
um, you can bounce back from stuff as
01:16:22
well. And and and [clears throat] and
01:16:24
looking a way forward. So rather than
01:16:26
that heroic thing being just an example
01:16:29
to other people that um, good things can
01:16:32
happen out of some pretty shitty
01:16:34
situations. M has your um personal idea
01:16:37
or definition of success changed since
01:16:39
the shooting?
01:16:40
>> In what way? In and
01:16:42
>> like just in in life in general.
01:16:44
>> Yeah, absolutely. Um
01:16:48
and I still Yeah, success comes in in
01:16:51
sort of the little moments I think as
01:16:52
well. Um, another thing that I want
01:16:56
things to happen now and I want my
01:16:58
family to be set up now because you're
01:17:01
not guaranteed tomorrow. And I know
01:17:03
that's something again, you're not
01:17:04
guaranteed tomorrow. It's it's it's
01:17:06
true. You're not guaranteed tomorrow.
01:17:08
>> Uh, but I've just got to chill the hell
01:17:11
out because I want to be sorted that if
01:17:13
anything does happen tomorrow, my family
01:17:16
are sorted. So, just chill out a bit,
01:17:18
right? Um, you're all no breaks.
01:17:21
>> Oh, 100%. and and [snorts] yeah, another
01:17:24
work on another
01:17:25
>> work. I I had um Sir Steve Hansen on the
01:17:27
podcast or black coach and he he's got a
01:17:30
theory that um for most people their
01:17:32
greatest strength is also their greatest
01:17:33
weakness.
01:17:34
>> Yeah.
01:17:34
>> So maybe maybe that's what it is for
01:17:36
you.
01:17:36
>> Yeah, I 100% 100% I even lying there
01:17:39
over the weekend just chill out
01:17:41
[laughter]
01:17:42
cuz I'm not doing stuff.
01:17:44
>> Um what advice would you have for
01:17:46
someone who's going through a
01:17:47
life-changing setback themselves?
01:17:49
>> Yeah. Um, yeah, more of just the same
01:17:53
what I've said, right? Like don't dwell
01:17:55
the whatifs.
01:17:56
>> Uh, be grateful for what you got. And I
01:17:58
know that's easier said than done. You
01:18:00
know, some things terribly
01:18:04
uh sad and hard to go through and and
01:18:06
and it doesn't have to be a massive
01:18:08
thing either. It can be rolling your
01:18:10
ankles so you can't do your run when you
01:18:11
won't run the marathon. It sounds silly,
01:18:13
but then all of a sudden you're not
01:18:14
running. mental health is is not
01:18:18
deteriorating as such, but it's a bit
01:18:19
tougher, right? Because that's your
01:18:21
identity, that's your outlook. So, um
01:18:24
yeah, but but those two, they just keep
01:18:26
coming back to me and and something
01:18:28
that's really helped me. Don't dwell on
01:18:29
the waters. Be grateful for what you've
01:18:31
got and and [ __ ] just talk to people.
01:18:34
Be better than me. [snorts]
01:18:36
>> Oh, you're doing pretty well. You're
01:18:37
doing pretty well. The um you Sean from
01:18:40
three years ago, he wouldn't believe
01:18:41
this guy, would he? Oh,
01:18:42
>> no. He's No. Oh.
01:18:45
Yeah, I' I'd hate to think what Sean
01:18:47
three years ago would think about the
01:18:49
guy sitting here today.
01:18:50
>> What do you think you're a show pony?
01:18:51
>> Oh, bloody sold his soul. It's terrible.
01:18:53
[laughter]
01:18:55
>> But I was saying this morning, I've
01:18:56
crossed the line now, so I might as well
01:18:58
just dive right in. But um it's it's
01:19:01
there. It's out there and and and it it
01:19:03
is what it is.
01:19:04
>> Yeah. And and [clears throat] it can
01:19:06
help people. Uh but the overriding
01:19:11
reason why I crossed that line was
01:19:13
because of that. And and
01:19:16
>> yeah, in a little way and as I said
01:19:18
right at the start, if me telling my
01:19:20
story or talking about it helps one
01:19:22
person, then who am I not to tell it?
01:19:24
>> Um what's something positive that's come
01:19:26
out of the experience? Something that
01:19:28
you could never have imagined at the
01:19:29
time.
01:19:30
>> What firebird?
01:19:31
>> No, the um the the incident in July
01:19:33
2023. Um
01:19:38
what? Yeah. Uh
01:19:38
>> maybe more more gratitude perhaps.
01:19:42
>> Yeah, I think I I think so. As as as
01:19:45
much as I need to get around
01:19:48
making Yeah. slow down a bit to actually
01:19:51
it's you've identified another sort of
01:19:54
work on for me cuz yes, I am very very
01:19:57
grateful, but um I just need to slow
01:20:00
down sometimes and and probably reflect
01:20:02
on that a little bit more. Um,
01:20:06
I don't know. Actually, something that
01:20:08
came straight out of it was how good
01:20:14
people are, you know, and and I always
01:20:16
thought cuz you hear so much [ __ ] on the
01:20:19
news about bad people doing bad things
01:20:22
or or or not so good people making bad
01:20:24
decisions and doing bad things.
01:20:25
>> Oh, there's that saying in media, if it
01:20:27
bleeds, it leads.
01:20:28
>> Oh, well, and you can see it, right? and
01:20:29
and probably another reason why to come
01:20:31
out, but the support that I had straight
01:20:34
off the bat, like I didn't turn on my
01:20:36
phone straight away, but there was like
01:20:38
960 messages on my one phone and another
01:20:42
600 and something through other
01:20:43
different platforms on my other phone.
01:20:46
>> I I don't have that many friends.
01:20:48
Certainly not that many, but [laughter]
01:20:49
like what the support that came out of
01:20:52
it like the what the RSA sent um I won't
01:20:57
start actually listing off what what was
01:20:59
given but like people just was
01:21:03
incredible. Um
01:21:05
so something that's really been etched
01:21:08
in is how good people are. Um, and just
01:21:13
um, yeah, don't not not don't judge a
01:21:15
book by the cover, but um, there are
01:21:19
good people out there.
01:21:20
>> Yeah.
01:21:21
>> Yeah. Cuz I suppose in your line of
01:21:22
work, it would be easy to become cynical
01:21:24
cuz you are dealing with you're dealing
01:21:26
with the worst of the worst, right? On a
01:21:27
daily basis.
01:21:28
>> Absolutely. So maybe that was a reminder
01:21:30
that actually people
01:21:32
>> Yeah. Do you start to think everyone's a
01:21:33
bullshitter or everyone's
01:21:35
>> Oh, you got to you got to be one to no
01:21:37
one, right? Um, yeah. Well, I you do get
01:21:41
you do get to a point where you you sort
01:21:43
of need a little bit more um
01:21:46
clarification about a couple of things,
01:21:47
but on a whole I think yeah, but a a
01:21:51
really really good reminder that um
01:21:55
yeah, there's some really good people
01:21:57
out there and and it's not just
01:22:00
um the [ __ ]
01:22:03
>> That's great. Um how old are your sons
01:22:06
now? 10 and seven.
01:22:09
>> So, they're probably too young to watch
01:22:10
this. It's It's been a pretty
01:22:13
>> confrontational episode.
01:22:15
>> Yeah. I
01:22:17
in one way at some stage they're going
01:22:19
to want to know um what happened through
01:22:22
my through my voice and my eyes and they
01:22:25
talk about putting a bit of putting a
01:22:28
bit of cream on a story when you get a
01:22:29
bit older. And no doubt I'll start doing
01:22:31
that at some stage in my latter years.
01:22:33
But this is itch now that this is this
01:22:36
is truly what it is and where it's at
01:22:38
and and and the way that I look at it
01:22:40
and view the situation and where I am
01:22:43
now. So, uh hopefully one day they can
01:22:47
uh listen to this or watch this and uh
01:22:49
get a bit more of an understanding of
01:22:51
because they've [snorts] been through it
01:22:52
too in a in a in a different stage in
01:22:54
their life. But um yeah.
01:22:58
>> Yeah. This is a story that needs no GST
01:23:00
added to it.
01:23:01
>> Yeah. [laughter]
01:23:02
Maybe doesn't matter anywhere.
01:23:04
>> Um yeah, it'll be interesting to see
01:23:05
what impact um it it has on the boys as
01:23:07
they get older. Like I don't I don't
01:23:08
know if they've got if they cut from the
01:23:10
same cloth as you then, you know, maybe
01:23:12
it'll be water off a duck's back.
01:23:14
>> Yeah, they are diff they're both very
01:23:16
different personalities. Um one's a very
01:23:19
very deep thinker. The [snorts] the
01:23:21
other one's a very free spirit, I'll
01:23:23
say. Um both different personalities. Uh
01:23:26
both great kids. Um yeah, love them
01:23:30
bits.
01:23:31
>> All right. Well, when the time's right,
01:23:32
maybe they'll watch this on YouTube or
01:23:34
stumble across it. Um, yeah. What would
01:23:36
you like to say to them?
01:23:37
>> Uh,
01:23:39
yeah. Well,
01:23:43
no. Just ju just that I think they know,
01:23:45
but just know that I'll always love them
01:23:47
and um yeah, try and
01:23:52
um hopefully um I've been an example and
01:23:57
a good example and a good role model for
01:24:01
uh for you to grow up and thrive in in
01:24:03
life.
01:24:04
>> Yeah.
01:24:05
>> Yeah.
01:24:06
>> I think that's a great place to end it.
01:24:08
>> Cool. Shman Stanley, um, thank you for
01:24:11
all your service and congratulations on
01:24:12
all the success with Firebird.
01:24:14
>> Yeah, thank you very much. It's it's
01:24:16
regardless of what I've been saying is
01:24:18
is quite cool. [laughter]
01:24:19
>> You've hated every minute of it, but I
01:24:21
appreciate you being here today.
01:24:22
>> We'll wait another four months before I
01:24:24
do it again. [laughter]