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How Rob Mokaraka Survived ‘Suicide-by-Cop’ and Lived To Tell The Story

October 15, 202301:15:20

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Rob madaka good day mate hey brother did

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I get the pronun I get nervous you're

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good bro you're good oh good hey thank

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you so much for coming over and joining

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me on my podcast bro thanks for inviting

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me in appreciate it bro oh you've got a

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you've got a hell of a story um I

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actually don't have any questions for

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this for this podcast but I thought I

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thought we just working um I mean it's

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just such um such a unique and

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terrifying story I feel like if we just

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go in chapters I'll just follow my nose

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um I thought we we could start on the

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day which is July 2009 um then we'll go

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to the the leadup um you know growing up

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the moments that led to that moment um

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the recovery and court case and then um

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rebuilding Rob yeah and where you're at

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now yeah great four chapters okay so

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first of all can I say um July 2009 I

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was living in a suburb um not far from

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where we are now called uh West which is

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like one suburb over from point shev so

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when this came on the news it sort of

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captivated me and I'd never ever heard

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uh before that moment of the phrase

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suicide by cop had never heard it before

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yeah and that was that was you on the

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news so talk us through that day so I

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had a very public mental and spiritual

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breakdown um I'd broken up from a

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relationship it was unhealthy and um and

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I I helped destroy that even more and it

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blew up and I thought

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um I'll get i'll get even clearer I to

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get out of this crazy relationship I did

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something even more crazier and stupid

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and I went and sleep with somebody else

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to make sure it it really exploded

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self-destruct self-destruct I wanted it

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to really explode and um I called the

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police on myself I called the police on

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myself cuz I thought I was the biggest

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pile of crap in the world no one will

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ever forgive me for all the things that

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i' compiled I built a case against

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myself and all the floodgates from the

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past just burst open so it's like like

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the past present future is all

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converging all at once and you're hurt

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scared angry confused and I thought I

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don't want to be alive and I thought I

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know I've seen police shoot M on the

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news right or wrong I'm a Mali that

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should be easy and I thought I deserved

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a violent death so I called the police

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up brother called them on myself and um

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ended up being shot in the chest at

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close range by provoking the police to

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shoot me

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dead the I mean the the whole thing is

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just awful and there's so much to unpack

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here um you yeah I've heard the 111 I'm

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sorry for laugh I've heard the 111 call

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you've got you're wearing a t-shirt now

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that says shop bro for anyone that wants

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to watch your play or play documentary

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documentary yeah it's on YouTube you can

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just look up shop bro you'll find it it

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starts with the 111 call and then the

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video footage it's it's very difficult

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to watch but you hear the call you you

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call yourself and you describe yourself

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and you're wearing um like cost cume

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camouflage Gear Well I'm wearing World

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War II trousers from a theater show that

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I co-wrote and co- acted in and I'm

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wearing a Air Force Army trench coat

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which a good friend of mine gave to me

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as a present so I'm looking like

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somebody's having a massive mental

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breakdown who looks pretty crazy dressed

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in military regalia so I was pretty much

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dressing the part and freaking the

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police out yeah so so you had a knife in

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one hand and on the other hand you had

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like a ladle covered with a teil teail

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so that think that was a gun yes I had a

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yeah it was a meat cleaver and a soup

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lad wrapped in a teail and I went out

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there wanting to be just I just wanted

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it to end and I wanted this hurt to stop

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in my mind and you know the the police

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officer did say don't take another step

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and I took that step and guess what

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happens when you take that step when

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they say don't take another step so I

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got that 9 mm bullet into me ripped

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through my internal organs dropped me

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and I realized I made a terrible mistake

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yeah and you can hear that in the the in

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the the footage cuz there were camera

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cruise that made it there in time you

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you you yelling out over and over again

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I'm so sorry I'm so sorry yeah yeah and

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I've had quite a few people ask me who

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are you sorry to Rob and I had to think

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about and I was like I think I was sorry

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to the policeman I was freaking out I

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was sorry to everybody I may have heard

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in my life growing up was just all these

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sories compounded from

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childhood so so just back a little bit

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so that the police turn up then how long

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is is that whole

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interaction I don't know time time is

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just is blued right so so you hear this

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you're in the house you hear the sirens

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that you called on yourself and then you

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come out on the street so I called the

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police and I was wondering on

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myself uh and I was wondering why no one

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has come into the house in my mind

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they're going to burst and blow me away

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and that's the end of Rob yeah but no

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one was coming in the house and I was

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getting frustrated so I went outside

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onto the street

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and um yeah that's where they're outside

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cuz I did call them M and they're half

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hour away from you so you're on the

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street one's hiding behind a tree Once

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hiding behind the police car like 20 M

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15 M oh it's yeah around about 15 M and

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they're not that far away brothers and

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and so and do they do do they try and

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negotiate with you yeah yeah yeah this

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this police officer trying to reach out

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to me and ask me what my name is and

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trying to reach out but I'm in this full

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storm I call it the storm of suicide

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audiation where I was like don't try and

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reach out to me and I actually I think I

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may have said my name I did say my name

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actually and so I said my name who what

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your name I said my name and like and

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it's got my other inner voice which is

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all in shop representation and my inner

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voice going my inner critic or my inner

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tany saying why the hell did you tell

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him your name and basically I was kind

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of like I was trying to reach out

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through the through the storm myself but

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he did warn me that they said what's in

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the te Toto I said you know what's in

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the te Toto they said don't take another

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step I took that step and bang shot in

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the chest at close range um

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yeah and but it missed your vital organs

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no it cut through my organs right and it

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was stuck inside of me so they couldn't

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find it how how are you not how did you

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not die that's a great question that's

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great there must be like a purpose right

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there's got to be a absolutely and so my

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grandmother she's from the Hooka so very

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much a hooka Catholic she said you know

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gave you the Archangel Michael medal and

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um it's because of I gave you this medal

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you're alive and whatever the reasons

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are it's it's to give me a second chance

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and with that second chance I'm know go

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I'm going around austral Asia to

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communities and organizations to

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normalize this conversation using humor

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and lived experience to open up those

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very heavy crunchy doors we

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uncomfortable about addressing yeah bro

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and the the work you've done since this

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happened The Darkest Day of your life um

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it's incredible it's inspirational and

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it's phenomenal and I guess I wonder if

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that's the purpose that you survived I I

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feel it is I definitely feel it is uh I

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was at a mental health Grassroots

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conference in Hastings and I was I

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presented and one of the other

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presenters came up to me he literally

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rolled up to me in a wheelchair his name

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is Wayne Forest he's a really good man

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and he rolled up to me after listening

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to me and he said he looked up at me and

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he said you know that happened to you

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for a reason and part of that reason is

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for you to send this message out to

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people yeah and I didn't know his story

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I looked at this man in a wheelchair and

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I was thinking what happened to him and

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then I get to his hear his story about a

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rugby playing farmer who went into a

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tackle rugby tackle and never came out

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of it so everyone's got a story it's

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just I suppose the key thing I'm meeting

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from people who have gone through trauma

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is From the Ashes hope rises and it's

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creating hope in different communities

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yeah absolutely okay so so so you you so

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you get shot so you're lying on the the

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ground repeatedly shouting out I'm so

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sorry I'm so sorry um then what happens

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do you black out you pass out no I'm

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still aw cuz the bullet is searing my

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internal organs it's on fire yeah

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because I would say you're you're you're

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the only person I'll ever have the

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privilege of speaking to that's been

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shot in the chest and survive so yeah

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describe that pain uh yeah once again

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quite a few people have asked that

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question what does it feel like it's

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like having a hot iron poker in the fire

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and then someone stabs in inside of you

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and it doesn't stop burning so it's like

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sizzling your internal organs so the the

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the the suicidal storm that's going in

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my mind is now overridden by the burning

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interal organs so now I was like oh

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that's not a problem the problem's down

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here now brother and I am just like I am

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just in a whole world of pain in a

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different way and from that from the

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healing process I've met a lot of people

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and I realize meeting lots of different

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people around austral Asia is that

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people don't want to kill themselves

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they just want the hurt to stop up here

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100% absolutely and I uh yeah I'm one of

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those people who survived that and a lot

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of people don't so I'm very blessed to

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get a second chance at life so so so

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when you you're down on the road saying

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I'm so sorry over and over again searing

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pain in your chest do the cops come up

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and check check on you or do they keep

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yeah the cops come up and one officer

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compresses my w I'm in so much pain that

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bullet is like so it's like burning it's

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on I don't know what the angle of the

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bullet and it's so intensely painful and

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I remember a police officer come down

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and compress the wound he compressed the

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wound and it just eased the the burning

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for just a little bit just enough for me

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to breathe and I ended up meeting that

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policeman so that wasn't the one that

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shot you that was his no this is another

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guy yeah um there's another story to

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this so that that police officer who

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compressed my wound we invited him to

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shot bro years later cuz he contacted my

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agent just wanted to say hey look I saw

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a I saw a short interview with you and I

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just want to commend you for how far

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you've come I went oh who's this again

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well I'm the officer who compressed your

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wound and I was like wow so yeah his job

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I just a lot of people don't know this

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he told me once he watched sh BR i

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wasani m uh at the school and he came

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and watched and he watched BR and he was

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blown away just by he didn't know what

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the background story was and he said

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well I'm glad you didn't point that tto

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at me and I said why is that cuz I was

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hiding in the bushes with an assault

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rifle if you that officer missed my job

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was to finish you off so everything

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happened in the right form in the right

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way for a reason for a reason for me to

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still be alive and to meet that officer

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and give him an apology letter from me

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to the officer who pulled the trigger

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who I provoked and it's an apology

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letter handwritten with all my contact

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details cuz he said look if you really

00:10:57

want to get in contact with him give me

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give me that letter because I went

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through official channels to try and

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apologize nothing but anyway for this

00:11:05

officer this um that policeman who I

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provoked to shoot me has gotten my full

00:11:11

apology but he as far as you know then

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he hasn't sort of accepted it I don't

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know the main thing is I know he's got

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it yeah and I I I met F I've got friends

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who in the police I've got cousins and

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they said well that dude will be pretty

00:11:25

messed up and um can you can you imagine

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I'm I'm I don't want to dwell on this

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cuz I I know you feel like [ __ ] about

00:11:32

this um but yeah like can you imagine

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just the hell it would created for his

00:11:38

life had he killed you well yep and look

00:11:41

at it this way we had a

00:11:44

atani uh presentation of shopo and he

00:11:47

said everybody was doing their job on

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the day you were doing your job that

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policeman was doing his job the

00:11:52

policeman who compressed your wound he

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was doing his job so if you take the

00:11:56

emotion out everybody was doing doing

00:11:59

their job and it's a crazy job and

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um thankfully I'm alive to be a to

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apologize to that police officer and the

00:12:08

other officer who compressed my wound

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yeah yeah it's good so um so you don't

00:12:14

do you pass it at all before the

00:12:15

ambulance no I'm are you coherent the

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whole time I'm like burning I'm I'm a

00:12:20

sausage sizzor lying down on the

00:12:22

ground I'm like I'm like at my own

00:12:25

barbecue and it's an internal barbecue

00:12:28

um and [ __ ] see you remember everything

00:12:31

how did you not pass out well I was

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think I was in now just going ah I think

00:12:34

I was yelling at where's the ambulance

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and it seemed to take an eternity while

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you're sizzling on the ground um and

00:12:41

then and it finally turns up and they

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Chuck me on the gurnie they P me and

00:12:45

then I remember yelling out for to put

00:12:46

me some drugs in me but they weren't

00:12:48

sure how much they should put in or

00:12:49

anyway just it was just I was in a world

00:12:52

of chaos so I passed out in the

00:12:55

ambulance then awoke re awoke as we

00:12:57

arrived at the uh Hospital so so so at

00:12:59

that point in the in the ambulance when

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you're lying on the road you you must be

00:13:02

thinking I'm going to I'm going to die I

00:13:05

wanted to die yeah because so I'm

00:13:08

disappointed that I'm still alive yeah

00:13:10

and I'm actually yelling at the police

00:13:12

to shoot me in the head uh but it's

00:13:15

finish you off yeah finish me off

00:13:16

because the pain is so extreme that I

00:13:18

don't think I can actually the the mind

00:13:21

can't process the extremity of the

00:13:24

bullet burning my internal organs so I'm

00:13:27

actually yelling out but it's a

00:13:28

beautiful afternoon in Sunny Point of O

00:13:31

and people are looking out their Windows

00:13:33

going who is this crazy maniac the

00:13:35

police had to shoot so you know living

00:13:38

off all of that to go when I see

00:13:40

shootings now if I hear anything about

00:13:42

people jumping off I go what's the real

00:13:44

story behind the article that's that's

00:13:46

how I look at the news what's the real

00:13:48

story cuz that's just the headline yeah

00:13:52

so then you're taken to hospital what

00:13:54

does the what does the recovery look

00:13:55

like do they put you on a coma they they

00:13:56

put you on enough morphing to knock you

00:13:58

out for

00:13:59

how many days I remember no not many

00:14:01

days I remember the the I remember them

00:14:05

cutting my clothes off and putting some

00:14:09

drugs in me and that's I passed out just

00:14:12

in okay and then I woke up in the

00:14:14

hospital room and it was like big shock

00:14:19

it's like now I'm in a new world and the

00:14:20

new world is I've got my guts cut wide

00:14:22

open and it is extremely painful and the

00:14:25

first thing I think about in hospital

00:14:27

was I hope my dad doesn't know

00:14:29

so that's the first person I thought of

00:14:31

was my dad why cuz it the uh like

00:14:33

embarrassment or shame or yes absolutely

00:14:37

I've brought all this embarrassment and

00:14:39

shame all upon the family and now

00:14:41

everyone's going to know that I'm an

00:14:43

effing loser I'm an effing piece of this

00:14:45

and that and blah blah blah so which

00:14:48

sort of reinforces the story you'd been

00:14:50

telling yourself yes I'd been telling

00:14:52

myself for that for a while even though

00:14:54

I was the smiley guy making people laugh

00:14:57

making them feel good and behind closed

00:14:59

doors i' just be

00:15:02

exhausted but isn't it funny that that

00:15:04

was your first your first thought you

00:15:06

think your first thought would be oh

00:15:08

[ __ ] I failed I'm still here or oh my

00:15:11

God I survived this is amazing this is

00:15:14

my second chance but no that was not no

00:15:17

how much time had passed like between

00:15:19

being taken to hospital and you coming

00:15:21

out of sedation oh you know like a day

00:15:23

two days a day a day I think it was the

00:15:25

next day and and then then what happened

00:15:29

oh I've got police in my room now

00:15:30

watching oh like police guard yeah

00:15:32

police guard just in case I miraculously

00:15:34

get out of bed which I can't move um so

00:15:37

the police are guarding um somebody who

00:15:39

can't move um who's got his guts card

00:15:41

wide open and um I suppose they just

00:15:43

following procedure um and I'm messed up

00:15:46

and I meet Obi-Wan Kenobi AKA my new

00:15:51

lawyer and he comes from upstairs out of

00:15:53

the blue silverhead Vox and he

00:15:56

introduces himself he's a QC

00:15:59

and I thought I don't trust any lawyers

00:16:00

why would I trust the lawyers but he's

00:16:02

actually a really good man and he

00:16:05

informs me there's a whole bunch of

00:16:06

people downstairs in the hospital

00:16:08

waiting room who care about me and I

00:16:10

didn't know that cuz in my mind no one

00:16:12

cares about me in my mind I'm not worth

00:16:14

anything so you thought everyone else

00:16:17

would be better off without you ABS gone

00:16:19

absolutely and that's the usual that I

00:16:21

I'm meeting people around austral Asia

00:16:23

and I've seen interviews on on

00:16:25

documentaries about this is like people

00:16:27

feel like they're doing somebody they

00:16:29

doing people a favor yeah they think

00:16:31

they're a burden absolutely 100% And it

00:16:33

it goes back to what you were saying

00:16:34

before about no no one actually wants to

00:16:37

die they just want the hurt to stop yes

00:16:39

and they want to stop being an

00:16:41

embarrassment or a burden to others yeah

00:16:43

so what then so then what's the what's

00:16:45

the recovery like what's what's that

00:16:47

process or procedure like like weeks

00:16:49

months um so I'm seven weeks in Oran

00:16:53

hospital with my guts cut what open so

00:16:56

so the emergency sudu are had the bullet

00:16:59

was still stuck inside me so was still

00:17:00

making me sick so I was

00:17:03

just yeah spewing up green B cuz there

00:17:07

bullet is and they can't see or find the

00:17:09

bullet on CT scans or x-rays it's

00:17:12

actually hidden behind my lung but there

00:17:14

was some unrelated problem on my back

00:17:17

cuz I'm lying on my back and I had get

00:17:19

the doctor one of the prettiest doctors

00:17:21

I've ever seen it well seemed pretty

00:17:23

amazing at the time maybe it was the

00:17:24

morphing may it could have been the

00:17:26

morphing but she said hey did they find

00:17:28

that bullet and I went no and she went

00:17:30

okay so she starts digging into my back

00:17:32

they give me lots more morphine and pl

00:17:34

digging around and she pulls out some

00:17:36

rib cuz they had to crack my ribs to try

00:17:38

and find the bullet so they cut me open

00:17:40

and crack the ribs they can't find the

00:17:42

bullet it's so she digs in the back and

00:17:44

she pulls out a little piece of rib and

00:17:46

she keeps digging and um she pulls out

00:17:48

the bullet and she goes I found it and I

00:17:51

was like can have a look at it I was

00:17:52

like you little bastard but I was it's

00:17:55

only a tiny little thing yeah Glock 9 mm

00:17:57

bullet right yeah yeah it's not it's not

00:17:59

a rifle bullet yeah just a pistol bullet

00:18:03

amazing so she pull is there much of a

00:18:05

scar or is it just like a tiny little

00:18:06

well not anymore but it's the actual Sur

00:18:09

The Cutting open multiple times so I had

00:18:11

to have emergency second surgery and

00:18:13

then in that second surgery they had to

00:18:15

cuz my my bows was were cut by the

00:18:18

bullet and my spleen so they had to give

00:18:20

me uh colostomy bag so now I had I was

00:18:24

basically [ __ ] out my guts from then

00:18:26

on in for 4 months until I had a veral

00:18:28

operation so I'm in pain 7 days a week

00:18:31

24 hours and this time I can't hide cuz

00:18:34

a lot of things we can do we can

00:18:35

distract ourselves more mental ises

00:18:37

there's no hiding anymore it's quite a

00:18:40

freaky movie that everything is loud

00:18:43

bright and clear the pain the people in

00:18:45

the room me I'm present for the first

00:18:48

time fully present and it

00:18:51

sucks yeah actually yeah did it suck or

00:18:54

was it was it like I don't know like a

00:18:57

weight off your shoulders in a way cuz

00:18:58

it's like now I've finally got to face

00:19:00

the tany or whatever no no I wasn't I

00:19:02

was nowhere near there okay I was still

00:19:04

in I was still in the multiple concrete

00:19:06

barriers that that helped me hide all

00:19:09

this pain so I was just like man I'm in

00:19:11

pain I was said when this shit's going

00:19:12

to ever end so I'm still having police

00:19:15

in there my lawyer ended up having we

00:19:17

had a court case in my room uh the

00:19:20

lawyer was present um actually told the

00:19:22

police offer trying to rush the the the

00:19:25

court case without them present and then

00:19:27

we at court case to get the police out

00:19:29

of the room cuz my lawyer said I can see

00:19:31

they're not conducive to your priests

00:19:33

and healing having them in the room

00:19:34

stressing me out and so from that day on

00:19:37

I didn't have police monitoring me and I

00:19:40

was a very much more

00:19:42

peaceful well semi- peaceful healing

00:19:44

process um my just physical pain bro you

00:19:48

when you're in physical pain you're

00:19:49

burning your internal organs you're cut

00:19:51

open C multiple times it's hard to rest

00:19:54

how when when does the physical pain

00:19:55

stop you're not in any pain now no no no

00:19:59

no but it I have to so 9 weeks all up in

00:20:03

in hospitals and I have to learn how to

00:20:05

change my own wounds I have to learn how

00:20:07

to change my own [ __ ] bags my

00:20:09

colostomies so basically I'm dealing

00:20:11

with my own [ __ ] every day no [ __ ] no

00:20:14

[ __ ] real [ __ ] literally my own [ __ ] and

00:20:17

I thought this is crazy I'm having to

00:20:19

deal with this [ __ ] which is burning my

00:20:21

my guts with they had to do emergency

00:20:24

operation I've got my own wounds that I

00:20:26

have to tend to it's a nurse helped me

00:20:28

so I'm having to look at this and having

00:20:30

to deal with and trying to find out how

00:20:32

I got there m and my family I'm I'm I'm

00:20:35

recovering after I got out of family out

00:20:37

of hospital at my family's Homestead up

00:20:39

in funger day so it's freak them out

00:20:41

because they're bombarded by media as

00:20:43

well and no one's no one's trained in

00:20:45

media

00:20:46

negotiations yeah they're just trying to

00:20:49

help crazy rob their son their nephew

00:20:52

their

00:20:54

grandson

00:20:56

man all right well let's let's let's go

00:20:58

backwards and then we'll go we'll go

00:21:00

forward to the recovery and the court

00:21:01

case and stuff so

00:21:04

um you you've dealt with the call it

00:21:06

what you want the tanif the black dog

00:21:08

depression whatever you you this had

00:21:10

been like a recurring thing all the way

00:21:12

through your your adult life like I I

00:21:14

read you got um admitted to a psych ward

00:21:16

when you were like 21 22 yes absolutely

00:21:18

21 yeah yeah yeah yeah another mental

00:21:21

breakdown uh psychiatric unit King seat

00:21:24

and uh put what that like well that was

00:21:26

like a crazy one for the who's nest if

00:21:29

you've ever seen

00:21:30

that and the chief so that's right I

00:21:32

thought it was Jack Nicholson I thought

00:21:33

I was the sest person there um you're

00:21:36

going to nurse ratchet I don't belong

00:21:38

here I'm not like them well that's what

00:21:39

it felt like that's what it felt like is

00:21:41

that the right place to send um you know

00:21:43

a dude in his early 20s that's just

00:21:45

having well you look my parents signed

00:21:46

the papers and my parents were divorced

00:21:49

and they were like we don't know what to

00:21:50

do with Rob this is freaking us out yeah

00:21:53

cuz I'd actually um had an incident with

00:21:56

the police again so was that well I was

00:22:00

um I went to the farm to my dad's farm

00:22:03

when I was 21 to go and blow my head off

00:22:05

with the

00:22:06

22 so the police got involved and I had

00:22:10

to go to um [ __ ] man there was multiple

00:22:13

times multiple things yeah I read there

00:22:15

was there was one day somewhere in your

00:22:17

20s where you like three times day so I

00:22:20

tried to guess myself drown myself and

00:22:22

then the third one was to try and blow

00:22:24

my head off so there's one little angel

00:22:25

saying on my on my shoulder saying

00:22:28

what if it could be better and the other

00:22:30

one's saying you know what to do let's

00:22:33

clock out let's get out of here but then

00:22:36

so that's in your early 20s um then

00:22:39

between that and July 2009 when the the

00:22:42

police shot you so much good stuff

00:22:44

happened in your life so much good stuff

00:22:46

happed so there was 2007 you won some

00:22:48

big award for a play that you did uh

00:22:51

2009 like just before the shooting

00:22:53

you're over in London with with some

00:22:55

play like from an Outsiders perspective

00:22:57

everything everything was going good in

00:22:58

your life you were humming yeah that's

00:23:01

right you had a four-year-old daughter

00:23:02

as well at the same time yes who's now

00:23:04

19 and we'll get to that later yeah and

00:23:07

um and I say this on the outside looked

00:23:11

like I was living the dream but my whole

00:23:13

life was falling apart and all the shame

00:23:16

guilt and failure stopped me from

00:23:18

telling my friend who's just as far away

00:23:20

as you are actually I just had lunch

00:23:22

with them before I arrived so it was

00:23:25

like all the shame guilt and failure was

00:23:27

joing me to not say a word to tell to

00:23:30

say hey man I'm in deep distress I'm

00:23:32

freaking out I actually didn't know I

00:23:34

didn't have the words yeah and yeah what

00:23:36

was um what was the um I don't know if

00:23:38

you want to get into this or not but

00:23:40

what was the cause of the um shame guilt

00:23:42

and failure cuz like from from an

00:23:43

outside's perspective you you definitely

00:23:45

weren't a [ __ ] failure you were doing

00:23:47

like professionally at least you were

00:23:48

doing very well yes I was but I I

00:23:51

suppose because I had unresolved trauma

00:23:53

which I didn't know I had all what I'll

00:23:55

get into it's like so there's there's

00:23:58

there's a trail so every stuff that

00:24:01

happens to us on the surface if you're

00:24:03

brave enough you follow the rabbit

00:24:05

Warren down you'll find the core like

00:24:08

pulling on a thread of a t-shirt or

00:24:09

something yes absolutely and it's one of

00:24:11

the most scariest Journeys that people

00:24:13

don't want to go on that's why they have

00:24:14

multiple therapies or or they're just on

00:24:17

the paking drugs to help num and i' I've

00:24:19

played that game I've played that game

00:24:21

TR and drink drink my way out of the

00:24:24

hurt so unresolved trauma and part of

00:24:27

that was was

00:24:29

um uh I had when I was a young man I had

00:24:32

three abortions with two girlfriends and

00:24:35

I was just all the shame that how I was

00:24:37

too young to and they were too young and

00:24:40

the parents were no they' got a future

00:24:41

why are we going to have you've just

00:24:42

messed up these people's lives so I'm

00:24:45

holding on to those same gu but did you

00:24:47

Did you sort of like pressure them into

00:24:49

it or was it a mutual you just felt prad

00:24:51

because no I was young I was like

00:24:52

literally like 6 15 18 and then 25 why

00:24:58

did you hold Shame about that because

00:25:01

because that's a great because I've done

00:25:04

something wrong so if I sh if I use

00:25:06

these words right and I'll sh I'll steal

00:25:08

them from bernee Brown how good is bne

00:25:10

brown she's not I'm a big fan I feel

00:25:12

like she she's my auntie um but so she

00:25:15

said um guilt is I did something wrong

00:25:19

shame is I am something wrong and I felt

00:25:22

both of those things I did something

00:25:23

wrong I am something wrong and then when

00:25:25

I so I'm I'm going to move forward so as

00:25:27

moved forward doing shop bro in the

00:25:28

first year I had to go see a shrink

00:25:30

again thanks to Mike King he shouted me

00:25:32

a shrink cuz i' hadn't seen one for a

00:25:34

while and I had all the stuff started

00:25:37

come out being sexually molested and I

00:25:39

thought I was holding mes memories for

00:25:41

somebody else that's how my mind was

00:25:43

dealing with this oh you're holding like

00:25:45

a memory stick someone gave me a memory

00:25:47

stick oh these aren't my memories I must

00:25:49

be holding this for somebody else and I

00:25:51

didn't realize that those memories were

00:25:53

my memories of me that I'd suppressed so

00:25:55

I've got all the stuff suppressed

00:25:57

brother that that's and when I meet

00:25:59

people been through trauma even worse

00:26:01

way worse than I've been we

00:26:02

compartmentalize it to survive so we

00:26:05

pack it away to try and move on but you

00:26:07

don't realize throughout your life your

00:26:08

fight flight or freeze yeah and your

00:26:11

interactions you don't even know that

00:26:14

are Guided by those three

00:26:16

pillars and so you when you don't know

00:26:18

what's wrong with you you'll just keep

00:26:20

continuing this this way of Behaving and

00:26:23

when I meet other people like me male

00:26:25

and female who've been on the journey

00:26:28

uh we've got so many similar

00:26:30

traits yeah well I've been doing this

00:26:32

podcast for about a year and a half now

00:26:34

and I've interviewed maybe 70 or 80

00:26:36

people and one thing you realize is

00:26:38

everyone is carrying around a bag of

00:26:39

[ __ ] it's just how big that bag of [ __ ]

00:26:41

is i' I've actually found this quite

00:26:42

cathartic it's like the absolutely yeah

00:26:45

I totally get it I I find what I do in

00:26:47

my presentations to be quite cathartic

00:26:50

and like a physical mental spiritual

00:26:53

Outlet to help others show them like hey

00:26:56

man you're not crazy you're hurting cuz

00:26:59

I was told I was crazy and then other

00:27:01

that I was dismissed yeah who who told

00:27:03

you you were crazy people were telling

00:27:05

me crazy right and you know and think

00:27:07

about families families don't want to

00:27:09

deal with your mental illness which is

00:27:12

I'm not blaming families I'm just saying

00:27:14

they don't have the tools to deal with

00:27:15

it and our parents generation and our

00:27:17

grandparents generation this was this

00:27:20

was one of the ultimate shames to have

00:27:21

if somebody with mental having a mental

00:27:23

breakdown so all of that stuff is buried

00:27:26

and you're dismissed you're either

00:27:28

dismissed and dissolved or told to just

00:27:32

shut your mouth yeah cuz how how old are

00:27:34

you what are you now I just turned 50 50

00:27:37

so you're exactly the same age as me see

00:27:38

I've heard you do some speeches and

00:27:39

stuff and uh you've talked about how

00:27:41

it's um it's a moldy thing or a thing

00:27:43

that happens in fos but I'm exactly the

00:27:45

same age as you my family was the same

00:27:47

and I I went to old boy school and it's

00:27:49

like you'd never show the BR brown stuff

00:27:51

that you're talking about you never show

00:27:53

any sort of vulnerability You Never Cry

00:27:56

Like it was um it you know it was it was

00:27:58

a whole it was how we were raised it was

00:28:00

the waters we were swimming absolutely

00:28:01

brother ABS trying to sort of unpack all

00:28:04

that and uh absolutely and then I've got

00:28:06

a father who was in the Army so he

00:28:08

definitely father also in Vietnam War so

00:28:12

he was dealing with his own trauma he's

00:28:14

dealing with own stuff but you don't

00:28:15

know that cuz you're a kid right and um

00:28:17

you're a kid and you don't know that

00:28:19

your your mom and dad are going through

00:28:20

stuff you just and sometimes you think

00:28:22

it's your fault and what the arguments

00:28:25

are but they're dealing with real human

00:28:26

issues human issues pay the mortgage the

00:28:30

job the kids the food the schooling you

00:28:33

know all of that and you don't realize

00:28:35

that and so I've got way more more UT

00:28:38

half for my parents realizing [ __ ]

00:28:40

they're pretty young trying to work [ __ ]

00:28:41

out and Society his society's got this

00:28:45

Unwritten rule that you get to a certain

00:28:46

age you're supposed to have your [ __ ]

00:28:48

together oh mate I had Duncan Garner on

00:28:51

the podcast recently and we were

00:28:53

discussing this cuz he's the same age as

00:28:54

us it's like you know when I when I was

00:28:56

like 20 I'd see 50y olds I think that

00:28:59

that motherfucker's got it all figured

00:29:00

out and then you get there and you're

00:29:02

like oh no everyone's just figuring it

00:29:04

out as they go along yes the older I get

00:29:07

the realize the less I actually know

00:29:09

yeah and I brother you know it's like

00:29:12

releasing all of that we're holding a

00:29:13

lot of guilt and we're all these

00:29:15

expectations from people who don't give

00:29:17

a [ __ ] about us and and I I heard this

00:29:19

great thing is like the best weight you

00:29:21

can lose is the weight of other people's

00:29:23

expectations of you because that will

00:29:26

bog you down what think of you but um so

00:29:30

before 2009 there were some um how often

00:29:33

did you have like um like an episode

00:29:35

where things started swirling there must

00:29:37

have been some happy periods or calm

00:29:39

periods I mean there was amazing periods

00:29:41

like there was either way up there all

00:29:43

was way down here yeah have you been

00:29:45

diagnosed with like bipolar or anything

00:29:47

like oh my my former therapist said I

00:29:49

had bipolar traits which I thought was

00:29:50

really lovely but um if I look at but if

00:29:53

I look at Humanity man we're all bipolar

00:29:56

it's just we're all little we don't know

00:29:57

no one wants to be diagnosed with

00:29:58

anything but I don't get caught up in

00:30:00

the diagnosis anyway because you can be

00:30:02

caught up in that doctors are go out

00:30:04

you're this you're bipolar you're an

00:30:05

alcoholic I'm not saying me but you know

00:30:07

you start handing out these labels

00:30:09

people start to think that's all they

00:30:10

are you know I I just boil it down to

00:30:14

your hurt okay let's look at that what

00:30:16

do you need your

00:30:17

hurt or we get stuck in this [ __ ] uh

00:30:21

treadmill that just goes around and

00:30:23

around in circles I I just can't um

00:30:28

I don't know like this this is the first

00:30:29

time we've met today but I've been

00:30:31

following your work closely since um

00:30:33

since after the 2009 incident and you

00:30:35

you've done some great work in the

00:30:36

mental health field since then but I

00:30:40

just can't imagine that you were not a

00:30:43

great communicator you you know what I

00:30:45

mean like you were you were a playright

00:30:46

a very successful playright so you're

00:30:48

good at communicating to an audience why

00:30:51

are we not good at um speaking about

00:30:53

your own [ __ ] that's right that's why do

00:30:54

you think actors take up acting so they

00:30:57

can be someone else that's

00:30:59

right why do you think artists want to

00:31:02

why do you think artists want to be

00:31:03

doing the Arts so they can express stuff

00:31:05

that's not directly about them but it's

00:31:07

about this thing okay dumb question no

00:31:10

but no it's not a dumb question because

00:31:12

even artists sometimes forget um and uh

00:31:16

and you know I've got a lot of good

00:31:17

friends in the art still and uh I know

00:31:20

they're challenged by this because the

00:31:22

art form is also like sometimes like

00:31:24

religion it can be a barrier to your

00:31:26

real healing you can hide behind it it's

00:31:28

a great barrier to hide within uh and it

00:31:32

can save you too but it's also a

00:31:34

hindrance because you've got one thing

00:31:36

in front of you that you're constantly

00:31:38

using to keep in front of the hurt sorry

00:31:41

I'm putting this in the front of the mic

00:31:42

but yeah that's good yeah yeah um okay

00:31:46

let's go to the um recovery so you're in

00:31:48

hospital seven weeks did you say nine

00:31:50

weeks or nine weeks nine weeks did you

00:31:52

um did they have therapists that came in

00:31:54

to see you or did you have a therapist

00:31:56

on I tell you what I had the best I had

00:31:59

the uh Hospital psychiatrist and she

00:32:01

turned up this 1980 suit with these big

00:32:04

these big and was like I don't know s

00:32:07

like a this Blue Block color and she

00:32:10

came in there she came with an assistant

00:32:12

and she went High Rob I'm the hospital

00:32:14

psychiatrist I just want to sit down

00:32:15

with you and and she started to ask me

00:32:18

some questions and then she said you

00:32:19

know what's happened to you is normal

00:32:22

for somebody with depression I was like

00:32:24

depression oh that's like that John Coan

00:32:25

thing that I saw on the heads oh he was

00:32:28

riding hope into the sand um yeah all of

00:32:31

that but can I just share a little on

00:32:33

her side yeah that when she said about

00:32:34

the John Coan head when John Coan would

00:32:37

speak about his problems on the TV and

00:32:39

no one was around I'd be telling John to

00:32:41

shut up because him talking was

00:32:44

irritating my demons and so as I go

00:32:46

around australasia sometimes me talking

00:32:50

irritates other people's demons cuz they

00:32:52

don't want to hear it they've they've

00:32:54

drunk enough done enough drugs or done

00:32:56

enough whatever they have to squash it

00:32:59

down and when someone else is speaking

00:33:01

as freely as you and I are on the couch

00:33:04

over there could be somebody going what

00:33:06

those two would shut the f up because

00:33:08

man that's freaking me out and so I

00:33:10

understand that now before I used to

00:33:12

think I was I was the problem by for for

00:33:15

talking about I used to I've been made

00:33:17

to think that I was crazy cuz I was

00:33:19

speaking out aloud what I realize that

00:33:21

you're crazy if you don't address

00:33:23

this yeah John kwin um I I had a John

00:33:27

kin on the podcast last year and I I

00:33:28

gave him um flowers for what he's what

00:33:30

he's done like he he he like he he was

00:33:33

the Trailblazer in this mental like he

00:33:37

put everything on the line I remember

00:33:38

listening to TalkBack radio and when um

00:33:41

you know that that that there was one

00:33:43

TalkBack host that talked about had a

00:33:45

phrase he goes oh oh someone's got the

00:33:46

Coolin like it talked about depression

00:33:49

flippantly and uh almost made a joke

00:33:52

about John Kuan in a way John Kuan put

00:33:54

everything on the line absolutely and

00:33:56

he's a big part of the reason that Mike

00:33:58

King and you and everyone else that has

00:34:00

come since feels a little bit Freer to

00:34:02

talk about these things yeah these

00:34:04

people were Trailblazers for me%

00:34:06

especially as a male as a male I was

00:34:09

talk specifically for me as a male and

00:34:11

so you know you talk about s Sir John K

00:34:14

and Mike King Mike King helped me on my

00:34:16

journey and um did you did you know Mike

00:34:18

before 2009 was no I mean of course I

00:34:20

knew who he was but I didn't know him at

00:34:22

all so my mental breakdown I ended up on

00:34:25

the nuts club which was uh the

00:34:27

which is still going uh it's a great

00:34:29

show um talking about mental health

00:34:31

openly and I'd never met so I met Mike

00:34:34

King and and his right one of his

00:34:36

right-hand men uh Boris srov and I'd

00:34:39

never heard two males ever speak so

00:34:41

openly and vulnerably and normally about

00:34:44

mental health and it freaked me out I

00:34:46

thought this must be an alien planet

00:34:48

I've never heard men speak like this

00:34:49

before and it helped change the game for

00:34:52

me not then cuz it freaked me out but

00:34:54

much later down the track when I started

00:34:56

the shot br journey I realized where the

00:34:58

doorway was cuz two Brave males showed

00:35:01

me what it's like to talk normally about

00:35:02

your mental health yeah and I suppose um

00:35:05

in a way like the nuts club and that

00:35:07

platform that they gave you that's um

00:35:09

it's kind of like the brne brown thing

00:35:10

it's like you show vulnerability and

00:35:12

like you put your cards on the table and

00:35:14

then lets the other person know that

00:35:15

it's a safe space and they can put their

00:35:17

cards on the table too but I I heard

00:35:18

another podcast that you did and you

00:35:19

talked about how this is way before 2009

00:35:22

in the shooting incident where you got

00:35:25

hooked up with a priest or something and

00:35:26

the priest tried to like get through to

00:35:28

you by sharing some of his

00:35:31

vulnerabilities and then you responded

00:35:33

by just saying like nah I'm all good or

00:35:35

oh it wasn't a priest it wasn't a priest

00:35:36

it was um but I understand where they

00:35:38

coming from it was actually out Victoria

00:35:41

Park Market in the park mhm just next

00:35:44

door just in the park just next door so

00:35:45

somebody had seen something was wrong

00:35:47

with Rob and um and this Mary sort of

00:35:51

gentleman not sort of mildy gentleman a

00:35:53

brother sort of like an uncle someone

00:35:55

said maybe you should talked to Rob and

00:35:57

he said hey meet you up for a meet up

00:35:59

for a check oh y yeah yeah cuz we're

00:36:01

planting trees together anyway he starts

00:36:03

sharing stuff about his personal

00:36:05

upbringing and uh it was about child

00:36:08

being abused as young men and what I

00:36:11

realized what he was trying to do is

00:36:12

what I'm doing and what Mike's done and

00:36:14

what John kin has done is that he was

00:36:16

doing the re I call it the reveal to

00:36:18

heal so he's revealing some

00:36:19

vulnerability to open the door for me to

00:36:22

know that it's safe to talk about

00:36:23

something vulnerable but I was in such

00:36:26

deep Den

00:36:27

I was going what is this guy telling me

00:36:28

this crap for there's nothing wrong with

00:36:30

me there's nothing wrong with me I keep

00:36:33

repeating that and in my mind cuz that's

00:36:35

how scared I was but I thought later on

00:36:38

much later down the track after being

00:36:39

shot after recovering I what an awesome

00:36:42

man to be that brave enough be that

00:36:45

brave to come and talk to me and open up

00:36:48

just a little bit about what happened to

00:36:49

him so he could reach out to me I

00:36:51

understand it now I didn't understand it

00:36:52

then yeah God there's um there's a lot

00:36:55

of I mean there's a lot of parallels

00:36:57

with with you and me and our junor

00:36:59

thankfully thankfully for me my rock

00:37:01

bottom hasn't been as deep as what yours

00:37:02

is um but there's a lot of parallels

00:37:06

were you always a all good person yeah

00:37:08

all good oh totally bro yes well you

00:37:12

know it you know it when you know it you

00:37:14

know yeah I was totally and then I'll

00:37:16

make you feel good about you too and

00:37:19

then oh you'll leave and I'll be tired

00:37:20

like oh thank God I'll just have to put

00:37:22

on my real face now cuz I'm just tired

00:37:25

but I wasn't always constantly mask I I

00:37:27

suppose not constantly I suppose it's

00:37:29

just confusing why my thoughts are

00:37:32

swirling and what I'm going a massive

00:37:34

motional ups and downs and then you add

00:37:37

alcohol on top of that you know to try

00:37:39

and drown it and have good times I'm

00:37:41

going to have good times obviously what

00:37:43

goes up must come down oh no now I'm

00:37:45

hung over and this shit's 20 times worse

00:37:47

oh and so yeah it's a depressant it's

00:37:50

not good it's not good and know it's I

00:37:52

used to use it quite a lot yeah so um so

00:37:57

yeah the so the recovery so you're in

00:37:58

hospital for a long time then when does

00:38:01

the re the Stark reality of your

00:38:02

situation kick in like the fact that

00:38:04

you're in a a whole whole lot of [ __ ]

00:38:06

right now just when I woke up that's

00:38:09

when I woke up in the hospital room and

00:38:11

I was like oh and my body's on fire yeah

00:38:15

no no but I mean like once you get past

00:38:18

once you realize you know that's good

00:38:20

once you realize okay I'm I'm going to

00:38:21

live like I literally I dodged a bullet

00:38:24

and and then then you realize the leg

00:38:26

implications of what you've done and

00:38:28

your the consequences for your actions

00:38:30

like what are you what does your lawyer

00:38:31

tell you what are you looking at you

00:38:33

think it's going to be a two it was it

00:38:35

was jail time yeah but what those

00:38:37

charges were for for people who done if

00:38:42

has has a criminal history like probably

00:38:44

a long criminal history so it was quite

00:38:46

the charges were quite extreme so that

00:38:48

the lawyer was just giving it to me

00:38:50

pretty plain plainly he said like you've

00:38:52

got two charges which was each uh 5

00:38:55

years in jail and another two judges

00:38:57

which is 5 years in jail look what if I

00:38:59

can get it down to one year Rob and I

00:39:01

said I'll be dead meaning I'll take my

00:39:03

life I was so mentally physically

00:39:05

spiritually fragile I was ready to go um

00:39:09

I was I didn't realize also I had

00:39:11

survivor's guilt then oh why am I still

00:39:13

alive why am I when other people have

00:39:16

died why am I still alive so survivor's

00:39:18

guilt on top of all of that survivor's

00:39:20

guilt about about who about me still

00:39:22

beinging alive right why am I still

00:39:23

alive I should be dead yeah but normally

00:39:26

I don't know when I I don't know much

00:39:28

about Survivor scope but I'd think of it

00:39:29

in a like say a car crash situation if

00:39:31

there's you you and three other people

00:39:33

and the other three people die and you

00:39:35

survive but yeah what do you mean

00:39:37

survivors go with the shooting incident

00:39:39

yeah meaning I should be dead other

00:39:41

people were successful yeah and but also

00:39:44

let me just add to this like the

00:39:46

hospital room next to

00:39:48

me um this young M girl was fighting for

00:39:52

her life she had cancer she

00:39:54

died and then I'm I'm next door going

00:39:58

I'm messed up and this girl's fighting

00:40:01

for her life and then on the I said of 7

00:40:05

weeks in particular in that hospital a

00:40:08

Chinese gentleman died in that same

00:40:11

room and so I'm like going these people

00:40:14

are fighting for their lives and this

00:40:16

a-hole this a-hole over here was trying

00:40:19

to exed the planet so all of that guilt

00:40:22

on top of being alive and these two

00:40:24

souls in the room right next thought of

00:40:26

me had passed away over a period of

00:40:28

weeks in between each other did that

00:40:31

sort of

00:40:32

um I don't know sort of firm up your

00:40:34

resolve to live and get better in a way

00:40:36

no no no no I was just oh no more guilt

00:40:39

more guilt oh just Let's us wear how

00:40:42

many how many layers of guilt can I wear

00:40:45

just to emphasize how much of a piece of

00:40:47

crap I am but what was quite surreal was

00:40:50

people just giving their love to me

00:40:51

turning up friends family turning up to

00:40:54

my hospital room just going with love

00:40:56

browing me like just confused I was

00:40:58

confused I didn't I didn't believe I

00:41:01

deserved any of this and and what do you

00:41:03

like with the outpouring of love from uh

00:41:05

friends and family maybe even people you

00:41:07

haven't seen for years like do you you

00:41:09

burst into tears when you see each and

00:41:10

every one of them um sometimes I get

00:41:12

pretty emotional like I just saw two

00:41:14

close Brothers of mine uh from the film

00:41:17

world and I just had lunch with them and

00:41:19

it's just it's emotional because

00:41:21

multiple reason I'm getting emotional

00:41:22

now is that these two brothers St stood

00:41:25

by me before before during and after and

00:41:29

where some people took off some people I

00:41:32

thought we were mates I chatted to Mike

00:41:33

King about this and he yes come on

00:41:35

brother have a look back think back to

00:41:37

the time same thing happened to me bro

00:41:39

these people were my friends and they

00:41:40

took off were you are you really

00:41:42

surprised and I was still and then a

00:41:44

couple of minutes later I came down

00:41:45

actually you're right I perpetuated this

00:41:48

circle so I could get into this party

00:41:50

mode to hide I'm not saying they're bad

00:41:53

anyone's a bad person it's just that I

00:41:55

knew where to go to to if I want to

00:41:57

drown and hide there's a drowning and

00:41:58

hiding circle called a party over here

00:42:01

yeah and if you're no longer yeah yeah

00:42:03

yeah I get that anyone that's had like

00:42:04

drug or alcohol problems it's like um

00:42:06

yeah you need to get rid of those

00:42:08

friends I guess good time friends or

00:42:10

whatever yeah yeah and I didn't know

00:42:12

that you know and I but it's good in a

00:42:14

way it's like it's like a purge isn't

00:42:15

it's like shaking an apple tree and you

00:42:17

the what the apples that stay on the

00:42:19

tree they they're your life is yeah and

00:42:21

and that's who we were then you know

00:42:22

they're different now I'm different now

00:42:24

but my mates who still St stood behind

00:42:27

me from that day and I see them man I

00:42:28

get emotional I get emotional cuz I go I

00:42:32

just got to tell them that I love them

00:42:34

oh yeah I love you too bro okay

00:42:36

yeah are they b b with it now knowing

00:42:40

what you've been through are they still

00:42:41

a bit awkward about it they are but you

00:42:43

know it's like a couple of times oh yep

00:42:46

yep but um but that's still good because

00:42:50

that's just how they are that must be

00:42:52

how they are in their whole life not

00:42:53

just towards me yeah but the cool thing

00:42:55

is I am I I've got the courage to say it

00:42:58

to their face because I mean it but

00:43:00

being a being a theater guy have you

00:43:01

always been a I find people I know that

00:43:03

are in theater this is a sweeping

00:43:04

generalization that they're quite

00:43:06

they're quite Huggy touchy people have

00:43:07

you always been a Huggy a Huggy person

00:43:09

or no were you like kind of a just a hey

00:43:12

I think I'm not sure I'm I'm not really

00:43:15

sure I think with the Bros you're always

00:43:16

trying to be like the Bros so whatever

00:43:19

the Bros the Bro Cod is you just follow

00:43:21

that whatever the handshake of the week

00:43:22

is yeah one the handshake of the week is

00:43:24

it just the fist bump is it whatever

00:43:26

like the chair BR and you just follow

00:43:28

that you follow that yeah but said of

00:43:30

people are Huggy people and I've turned

00:43:32

into one of those Huggers especially I

00:43:34

want to meet genuine human beings bro I

00:43:37

think that's I yeah I think it's good

00:43:38

I've definitely become more of a Huggy

00:43:40

person as I've got older and more I

00:43:42

don't know in touch with my true

00:43:43

emotions and stuff and more able to say

00:43:45

what I'm actually thinking which I

00:43:47

think's a it's really cool I like it I

00:43:49

like the genie I'm on same you proud of

00:43:51

the person you are today I am I am and I

00:43:54

got to sometimes stop giving them a hard

00:43:55

time

00:43:56

cuz he's traveled a far a long way to

00:43:58

get here and I

00:44:00

um what I found out is I'm doing shop

00:44:03

not found out some people reflected back

00:44:04

to me it's like oh that young character

00:44:07

you play with is your younger self it's

00:44:08

like your younger self was searching for

00:44:10

your older self to save you your hurt

00:44:13

little

00:44:14

boy was trying got you through this

00:44:16

crazy Journey with the man of tools that

00:44:18

hurt little boy and a man's body head

00:44:21

and now this older Rob gets to look

00:44:23

after that younger hurt little child

00:44:25

that was stuck in

00:44:28

time

00:44:29

yeah that's a hell hell of a journey to

00:44:32

get to where you are now though not a

00:44:34

journey you'd worship on anyone no I

00:44:36

wouldn't worship on anyone and I thought

00:44:38

I hated people until I got shot and when

00:44:40

I hear people say oh that bastard needs

00:44:42

a bullet I was like well actually have

00:44:44

have a good have a good thing about that

00:44:47

you obviously you haven't had a bullet

00:44:49

in you once you feel it you'll realize

00:44:51

who you don't really hate people that

00:44:53

much well I don't anyway I'll just talk

00:44:54

about me yeah I've noticed there's been

00:44:56

a few occasions in this last what 45

00:44:58

minutes that you've um referred to

00:45:00

yourself in the the third person as Rob

00:45:02

is that um is that something is that

00:45:05

something you do intentionally like uh

00:45:07

you know yeah I suppose sometimes I do

00:45:09

cuz I'm like I know it's me but it's

00:45:12

like there's versions of me throughout

00:45:15

the timeline and there's different

00:45:17

versions of Rob of me Rob more so some

00:45:19

versions of you you feel like you're

00:45:20

talking about a different person yeah

00:45:22

that's right that's all yes yes it feels

00:45:24

like I'm that's interesting but I know

00:45:26

it's me yeah but I go oh that version Oh

00:45:29

the two the 2.1 which was really messed

00:45:32

up and then I had to get to 5 what

00:45:34

version we at now I don't know man 50

00:45:37

point I don't know how good how good

00:45:40

okay so um then uh the court case com so

00:45:43

so you're back at home you're out of

00:45:44

Hospital you're back at home so multiple

00:45:46

surgeries multiple court cases and now

00:45:49

that the body's slowly starting to heal

00:45:52

I I start seeing a therapist yeah so

00:45:54

okay so physically you're feeling good

00:45:56

good mentally you're still [ __ ] up oh

00:45:58

mentally I'm a mess and physically I'm a

00:46:00

mess yeah so both but you're alive I'm

00:46:03

alive but uh and I've got the love of my

00:46:05

family around me who are freaking out

00:46:07

cuz it's not every day your son calls

00:46:10

the police on them and in the news that

00:46:12

wanted to be dead yeah so did you have

00:46:14

like like um Pho like re rally around so

00:46:17

there was almost someone so you're

00:46:18

almost like on suicide watch I guess in

00:46:20

way or not that intense I didn't feel

00:46:23

like it was maybe they maybe they felt

00:46:24

like I've never had that

00:46:26

but the M thing is I mean I was staying

00:46:28

down the other end of the house and my

00:46:30

dad and my stepmom and that

00:46:32

was they had my own space so couldn't

00:46:35

have been too concerned I mean they were

00:46:37

concerned but you know I suppose there's

00:46:39

only so much you can do rather rather

00:46:40

than I was a mess already I was a Miss

00:46:42

already yeah and you I mean you can't

00:46:44

you can't keep someone in a padded room

00:46:46

like someone's going to do what they're

00:46:47

going to do ultimately I think and yep

00:46:50

andless should tie them

00:46:53

up so so when do the cour case so July

00:46:56

2009 was the shooting so cuz I can't

00:46:59

actually physically attend a court case

00:47:01

so we had the first court case in the in

00:47:03

my hospital room yeah uh so to clear the

00:47:05

police out of there so I can actually

00:47:07

have a healing space and then I think

00:47:10

2010 is when I am able to walk into a

00:47:14

courtroom um with my guts cut wide open

00:47:17

but just stitched up yeah so had they

00:47:20

had they given you like um a sentencing

00:47:22

indication or a sentencing range like or

00:47:24

did you still think you in jail uh that

00:47:27

that the crown versus Rob M and the

00:47:29

police they were trying to put Rob away

00:47:30

from jail but the extreme you're talking

00:47:33

about him as Rob no no no no it's just

00:47:35

an interesting observation sorry no

00:47:37

thanks for pointing that out I don't I

00:47:38

don't realize cuz I'm doing it in shop

00:47:40

bro when I'm talking about the multiple

00:47:42

versions of me so thanks for putting

00:47:44

that out brother no it's not a it's not

00:47:46

a fault or anything though it's not

00:47:47

something you should change it's just

00:47:48

interesting that the the person that's

00:47:50

sitting in front of me now almost

00:47:53

disassociates disassociates from that

00:47:55

that person then well I can see it

00:47:57

clearly what I was going through so yeah

00:48:01

he he said like we had to go through

00:48:04

multiple court

00:48:05

cases and this lawyer was very savvy so

00:48:08

we had to navigate these judges he knew

00:48:10

were and I'll say this very openly he

00:48:12

said their box tickers for the police

00:48:14

they'll just I am sweers next tick and

00:48:17

just on the conveyor belt you're on the

00:48:19

conveyor Bel to prison and especially as

00:48:21

a mildy male you're on the conveyor Bel

00:48:23

big time so I had a very savy awesome QC

00:48:28

lawyer who cared who cared about me when

00:48:30

actually this and he he knew some people

00:48:34

um up in the in the law in the legal

00:48:36

realm who actually knew me and found out

00:48:38

actually he's not a crazy psychopath

00:48:42

what I've heard is that he's actually uh

00:48:44

he's a decent human being who spun out

00:48:47

so I suppose I got I've got a lot to

00:48:49

thank him I have thanked him I send him

00:48:51

my documentary once I reconnected and I

00:48:53

think he just went oh okay well at least

00:48:55

you're not doing anything bad you're

00:48:56

using your superpowers for good and I

00:48:58

don't don't need my surfaces again oh

00:49:00

yeah mean you've got a second chance at

00:49:02

life oh I mean if you count up the other

00:49:03

attempts I don't know what what number

00:49:05

of life we're up to now but it's like

00:49:07

you're definitely not squandering it no

00:49:08

I'm not and now I get to meet you know I

00:49:10

meet people like you Don we've never met

00:49:12

so what I really cherish is many

00:49:16

like-minded Souls who are happy to talk

00:49:20

about these very crunchy things so other

00:49:22

people out there in the world who don't

00:49:23

have the words or the courage yet

00:49:26

can breathe a sigh of relief and go okay

00:49:30

maybe I can get to that stage I'm just

00:49:32

right down here at the moment struggling

00:49:34

yeah so I appreciate you brother that's

00:49:35

what I'm trying to say I I appreciate

00:49:37

you too as I was saying before from

00:49:38

doing this podcast you realize that

00:49:40

everyone's carrying a bag of [ __ ] it's

00:49:41

just how big that bagg of [ __ ] is and um

00:49:44

and I'd like to think people can go can

00:49:46

can hear your story and go okay well he

00:49:48

got through that I can get through this

00:49:52

relationship breakup job loss you know

00:49:54

this guilt that I've got for whatever it

00:49:57

happens to be absolutely and and if I

00:50:00

could just give I just try and drop real

00:50:01

simple gems for people I was like you

00:50:03

didn't choose the hurt but you can

00:50:05

choose the heal cuz we get stuck in here

00:50:08

yeah oh well that's it can't change

00:50:10

anything well I was like well you're not

00:50:11

a tree bro you can move so um I was like

00:50:14

oh I can move too I can move to help but

00:50:17

it's just trying to it's easier said

00:50:19

than done when you're when you're in

00:50:20

that fight or flight all the time and

00:50:22

you're it's like you're literally

00:50:23

walking through a storm that no one can

00:50:24

see yeah yeah yeah yeah so uh what

00:50:28

happens in court oh mult so the so the

00:50:31

lawyer is amazing lawyer is

00:50:33

amazing um what do you get like

00:50:36

Community some community service so the

00:50:38

lawyer got me out of the prison sentence

00:50:41

I mean look like it makes sense right

00:50:43

like

00:50:44

prison why would why would they send you

00:50:46

to prison well because this is another I

00:50:48

I know you like you [ __ ] up

00:50:50

monumentally but like prison's not a

00:50:52

place to S someone that's just mentally

00:50:54

mentally unwell and running in their

00:50:55

life yeah so this is how the lawyer told

00:50:58

it to me he said look Rob because you

00:51:00

were filmed on the street by the news

00:51:04

and the public saw you they they need

00:51:07

the police to and the crown to to see

00:51:10

you publicly get your ass kicked mhm so

00:51:14

he's basically said make an example of

00:51:15

yeah yeah he basically said it's a gray

00:51:17

area and I and as M up as the system is

00:51:20

I actually created that event so I can't

00:51:22

blame anybody for that event other than

00:51:25

myself

00:51:26

so I created this event which took a

00:51:27

long time for me to get my head around

00:51:29

by the way I was blaming everybody in

00:51:30

the world but me you did how long how

00:51:33

long did it take you for the um

00:51:35

acceptance or ownership couple years

00:51:37

years I'd say a couple of years right

00:51:39

who were you who were you who were you

00:51:40

pointing the finger at oh everybody it's

00:51:43

everybody's fault the police's fault

00:51:44

it's the police fault it's people who

00:51:47

the police should have had tasers

00:51:48

instead of the gun yeah and the police

00:51:50

uh or everybody in my life it was their

00:51:53

fault and I was actually had my cousin

00:51:55

and his wife who love me and they said

00:51:58

hey um you know if you didn't call the

00:52:01

police on

00:52:03

yourself and they knew I was mentally

00:52:05

fragile and I didn't like hearing that

00:52:07

bro I didn't like hearing it cuz when

00:52:10

you're hurting you need someone to blame

00:52:12

you called them on yourself so actually

00:52:16

it's you it sounds like they told you in

00:52:18

a really uh nice gentle way though like

00:52:21

not not giving you a boot up the ass

00:52:23

just bro I was like they could tell was

00:52:25

like mentally un I was unstable fragile

00:52:29

physically fragile mentally spiritually

00:52:31

all of that they saw that but I really

00:52:32

love them for that cuz I hated hearing

00:52:35

it well it's a bit of bit of pill to

00:52:37

swallow isn't it no one wants to yeah no

00:52:40

one wants to hear that so you get

00:52:42

through the court case um

00:52:45

and excuse the pun but did it feel like

00:52:47

you dodged a

00:52:48

bullet sorry no no I'll edit that out

00:52:51

that was terrible you can keep it in

00:52:53

there bro if you want uh I did feel like

00:52:55

do because I thought if they did go to

00:52:57

prison I literally was going to take my

00:52:59

own life cuz I waso I was paper thin

00:53:02

mentally fragile my whole guts were

00:53:04

still cut wide open um everything

00:53:06

mentally spiritually messed up but so I

00:53:09

did feel like I dodged a bullets um and

00:53:12

I was very grateful it's okay for you to

00:53:13

say it but I feel like I can't say it

00:53:15

it's not my joke that's right I pinched

00:53:17

it off you um shot bro and um see and us

00:53:21

normalizing the thing about to talk

00:53:23

about mental health and and mental break

00:53:25

got to put light on the humor is helping

00:53:27

to relieve the the heaviness of what

00:53:29

you're talking about so I totally get it

00:53:31

um and I was very grateful cuz oh cool I

00:53:33

don't have to take my life now where I

00:53:35

was going to do that before so was that

00:53:37

does that sort of feel like so when when

00:53:39

um the sentencing happened so you've got

00:53:41

that

00:53:42

big this this big sort of hurdle or you

00:53:45

obstacle or whatever you want to call it

00:53:46

in your life over and done with was that

00:53:48

the point where you feel like you could

00:53:50

take a deep breath and start

00:53:52

rebuilding uh yeah kind of just that

00:53:55

that was just one step out I had to

00:53:57

rebuild like I was still mentally

00:53:59

physically walking wreck and so

00:54:02

navigating all of that having to change

00:54:03

my own wounds was a good lesson of like

00:54:05

you have to deal with your own [ __ ] Rob

00:54:07

literally and you have to what's

00:54:09

involved with changing your changing

00:54:10

your dressing uh so your cluster me bag

00:54:13

okay so they so stop going to the toilet

00:54:17

through your bells and now you're out

00:54:18

your stomach and they put you lower or

00:54:21

large intestine and they poke it out and

00:54:23

so because it was emergency operation

00:54:24

it's burning your feces my feces was

00:54:28

burning the [ __ ] out of my skin so

00:54:30

basically I'm trying to clean the wound

00:54:32

and get a clean FR and you're literally

00:54:34

trying to hang have a social trying to

00:54:36

be normal human go to a supermarket or a

00:54:39

cafe with a friend and you shirt

00:54:41

yourself all have your T-shirt and I'm

00:54:43

sprinting out of that Cafe as fast as I

00:54:45

can so learning how to navigate that uh

00:54:48

it's a lot and seeping my guts are still

00:54:50

seeping out uh so I had to keep changing

00:54:54

cleaning my wounds cuz they to cut me

00:54:56

open from the belly button to lower

00:54:58

chest so I'm never getting that as well

00:55:02

as as just trying to be normal find out

00:55:04

what normal was that's right was trying

00:55:06

to what is normal is there any normal

00:55:09

yeah so there's a couple of people had

00:55:10

on the P podcast I've had this um former

00:55:12

wakeboarder called Brad Smiler who's now

00:55:14

a quadriplegic and he's got a permanent

00:55:16

colostomy bag and I had di Henwood on

00:55:19

who's had Bale cancer and he had um a

00:55:20

colostomy bag for for a while and I

00:55:24

suppose I don't I suppose in their

00:55:26

position because they didn't really

00:55:29

bring it on themsel you could have like

00:55:31

an element of self- petty did you did

00:55:32

you have sort of self Petty oh I had

00:55:34

tons of it did you I was writing about

00:55:37

I'm a writer I was writing I was trying

00:55:38

to write it all out trying to write it

00:55:40

out of me to get I don't know I was

00:55:43

because it was burning my my skin I was

00:55:46

basically writing about that and I was

00:55:48

moaning about it until I was at my

00:55:49

friend's barbecue and my my mate's dead

00:55:52

he goes oh you got one of those too and

00:55:53

he pulls the shoot up and I said said

00:55:55

how long's yours on for when you went

00:55:56

life and I just shut my mouth I stopped

00:56:00

it cuz cuz you knew yours was only

00:56:01

temporary yeah cuz mine was 4 months and

00:56:05

I thought what are you moaning about Rob

00:56:07

so you know every you know your pain

00:56:09

everyone's pain and hurt is valid is

00:56:11

just get a perspective when you meet

00:56:13

somebody who's going through something

00:56:14

even bigger for Life yeah there's there

00:56:17

there's um a saying I've seen on um

00:56:19

Instagram that comparison is the theft

00:56:20

of joy and it's true it's a good one but

00:56:22

you can always compare down and there is

00:56:24

always someone worse off than what you

00:56:26

are absolutely and but also people get

00:56:28

caught in the Pain Olympics like my pain

00:56:31

is worse than anybody's in the world and

00:56:32

no one's ever going to understand and

00:56:34

then on the podium you got the bronze

00:56:35

medalist going oh my pain is hurting me

00:56:37

every day but it's not as bad as that

00:56:39

person's cuz they're telling me but pain

00:56:41

is pain brother hurt is hurt it's just

00:56:43

getting a perspective no winner and

00:56:45

there's no winner yeah there's no winner

00:56:47

okay so um the court case is over with

00:56:49

we're rebuilding Rob when do you start

00:56:52

to come right how long is it so July

00:56:53

2009 yesterday yeah oh I'm sorry I I

00:56:57

understand you're still a work in

00:56:58

progress if you're if you're um suffer

00:57:01

from mental illness it's it's never

00:57:02

going to fully go away and it's a

00:57:03

constant work on um but when did you

00:57:05

start to feel like your your old self

00:57:07

again or your new self again well it's

00:57:09

interesting because you as you're

00:57:11

healing you have to change your ways

00:57:13

because can't physically do this can't

00:57:15

physically do that mentally it's hard

00:57:18

because your body's not working you have

00:57:20

to evolve and now as I got better

00:57:22

physically I started to go back to my

00:57:25

old dumb ways like let's have some beers

00:57:27

let's get on it and I mentally started

00:57:30

to fall down again I went what's wrong

00:57:31

I'm back I'm like I'm feeling fit again

00:57:33

what's wrong with me it's like are you

00:57:35

idiot you can't go back to the old ways

00:57:38

now in my Evolution and anyone's healing

00:57:41

Evolution you have to keep moving

00:57:44

forward if you try to go backwards

00:57:46

you're going to sink back down to where

00:57:48

you were yeah and that's that happened

00:57:49

to me a few times that's okay I mean I

00:57:52

was I was with with good people but when

00:57:54

I realiz realized that I was like oh

00:57:55

[ __ ] this is not good for my mental

00:57:57

health yeah and um what about medication

00:58:00

you on medication now no my new

00:58:02

medication is BJJ BJJ Brazilian

00:58:04

jiu-jitsu oh oh is it really I just

00:58:07

taken it up I'm like I'm pretty new but

00:58:09

I have a lot of friends who uh have done

00:58:11

this yeah a lot of people swear by it I

00:58:13

a lot of podcast absolutely and but the

00:58:15

key thing I made of Mind said say it's

00:58:18

mental and spiritual health because

00:58:20

you're physically in your body you know

00:58:21

and oh go you know you tried a couple of

00:58:23

free classes I tried a couple of free

00:58:25

classes I was hooked and now it's it's

00:58:27

one of the many tools that I have on my

00:58:29

healing tool belt yeah so it's a

00:58:31

physical

00:58:32

Outlet uh cuz you're very present cuz if

00:58:35

you're not you got somebody about to

00:58:36

choke you out are you so you're very

00:58:38

much not thinking about what's happening

00:58:40

in 10 20 minutes time or 20 minutes ago

00:58:43

you're like I'm very present um and I

00:58:46

really enjoy it and I enjoy that

00:58:48

comaraderie amongst the club and team

00:58:50

and it it's just it's just bloody good

00:58:52

for my wellbeing yeah what what else

00:58:54

have you got your talk about cuz I don't

00:58:55

think there's um when it comes to like a

00:58:57

mental health plan or resilience plan or

00:58:59

whatever you want to call it I don't

00:59:00

think there's a one siiz fits all you

00:59:02

got to you got to do the work yourself

00:59:03

and find out what's right for you but

00:59:05

what else you got do you do journaling

00:59:07

you do any ice baths or cold water

00:59:09

therapy well look I go to the ocean when

00:59:11

it's cold I go ocean when it's a hot day

00:59:13

rainy day sunny day I'll go to a river a

00:59:15

lake cold water is the best cold water

00:59:18

is good for me and uh and I I do

00:59:20

purification meaning like I go in there

00:59:22

doing cut here for myself to wash off

00:59:24

what I don't need hanging around me

00:59:26

especially after I finish shot BR

00:59:28

presentations uh midi midy Romy Rommy

00:59:30

which are mildy forms of massage which

00:59:33

are physical and spiritual or if I can't

00:59:34

find a mighty massuse I'll go to Tai cuz

00:59:37

Ty you can crunch the crap out of me um

00:59:40

and fold me upside down and I really

00:59:42

enjoy that physical like loosening up

00:59:45

the limbs and so I've got multiple and I

00:59:49

share this with everybody I've got a

00:59:51

tight three three people that I trust

00:59:53

with my life I can text or call anytime

00:59:56

night or day and I encourage other

00:59:58

people to get a tight three because it's

01:00:00

too much for one person to hold and the

01:00:02

good thing about my tight thre it's grow

01:00:04

to five people that I trust in my life

01:00:07

um is that if you're swirling that

01:00:11

person's there to help you and if you're

01:00:12

the person helping the one swirling and

01:00:14

it's too much for you you call in the

01:00:16

other people so you're you're putting a

01:00:18

circle of utle heart and hope around

01:00:20

that one person and the three of you or

01:00:23

five of you can navigate it better than

01:00:24

one so it's basically to even the load I

01:00:27

think that's a good idea as a formal

01:00:29

sort of I mean you hear about people

01:00:30

that go to Alcoholics Anonymous and they

01:00:32

have a sponsor you know someone that

01:00:33

they can call anytime day or night but

01:00:34

we don't do that for mental health do we

01:00:36

and um and but everyone says everyone

01:00:39

says like a if you're of a feeling down

01:00:41

you give me a call day or night but it's

01:00:43

feels like it's just lip service yeah

01:00:45

and that's why I've taken I took it that

01:00:48

step to go I'm going to nominate these

01:00:49

people and formalize it and formalize it

01:00:51

and you know it's okay if they go oh

01:00:53

actually it's it's a bit too much for me

01:00:54

bro go okay thanks now I know uh this

01:00:57

person over here this another person so

01:00:59

you just build and I've heard people say

01:01:01

I don't have a tight I don't have a

01:01:02

tight one in my circle and I've actually

01:01:04

said to them sounds like your circle is

01:01:06

crap um if you can't ask one person in

01:01:09

your circle to be you know a a guardian

01:01:12

a kitaki you better change a circle bro

01:01:15

cuz that means you it's not a safe place

01:01:17

to be I like that so when did the when

01:01:22

did the decision come to tour do shop

01:01:24

bro as I said at the beginning I I

01:01:26

watched this on YouTube last night and

01:01:28

anyone can watch it um it's it's a hard

01:01:31

watch and after watching it last night I

01:01:33

thought

01:01:34

a you know it must be exhausting for you

01:01:37

to even come over here today and like

01:01:38

chat about this for an hour no no no

01:01:41

this is my everyday because it's not

01:01:43

heavy for me it's not it's not heavy for

01:01:46

me it was heavy for me it's light for me

01:01:49

do I still have shed some tears about it

01:01:52

sometimes yeah but it's no way near as

01:01:54

heavy as it's ever been for me I'm at

01:01:56

probably the best shape mentally

01:01:58

physically spiritually that I've ever

01:02:00

been at but I know that I got to keep

01:02:02

working on it I can't can't just stop

01:02:04

like go on cruise mode because I'll

01:02:06

start to slip backwards I've actually

01:02:09

the thing about prevention is you've got

01:02:10

to be actually putting into action you

01:02:13

got to be actioning it's great to have

01:02:15

all these tools but if you're not

01:02:16

practicing any of these tools daily then

01:02:19

it's just great thoughts and ideas oh

01:02:21

yeah and then when when the [ __ ] hits

01:02:22

the fan and you go and grab the tool

01:02:24

youen actually used it before you're

01:02:26

like oh well I dropped it oh oh grab the

01:02:29

other one oh dropped it too oh God and

01:02:32

all of a sudden you've got had a great

01:02:34

you think you've got these great tools

01:02:36

which you've never practiced using and I

01:02:38

had to figure out that the hard way bro

01:02:39

that happened to me so many times yeah

01:02:42

yeah that's great that's a great one

01:02:43

that's a great one and then when the

01:02:44

[ __ ] the fan they'd all fall out on the

01:02:45

floor and I got I was lost again yeah

01:02:48

but that's the thing I mean the easiest

01:02:49

time to do the work is when you don't

01:02:51

need it eh but it's like I mean who does

01:02:53

that

01:02:54

you know what I mean it's like I don't

01:02:56

need it I'm all good totally until

01:02:58

you're not and that's what I I used to

01:02:59

do that all the time but now I've had to

01:03:02

use these tools and I encourage other

01:03:04

people to use whatever tools you need

01:03:05

cuz we're all same same but different

01:03:08

and you might need a little different

01:03:09

variation of this so figure out what you

01:03:12

need and when you're swirling in that

01:03:14

storm of s a suicide audiation and

01:03:17

you're brave enough to go bro I'm

01:03:18

spinning out I need help right now the

01:03:21

best advice I've ever got and it's from

01:03:22

my first cousin Clint Edmunds he said to

01:03:24

me on the phone what do you need cousin

01:03:27

cuz you could hear that I was distressed

01:03:28

and I'd never everybody have ever heard

01:03:31

anyone ask me what I need and I realized

01:03:33

why cuz I never told anybody I've been

01:03:35

suicidal so to have somebody actually

01:03:38

listen without judgment not go oh man we

01:03:40

we better medicate you or jeez we better

01:03:42

call the cops or call the ambulance it's

01:03:44

like there's no Panic the person who I

01:03:46

trust in my life number one on my daring

01:03:47

list is my cousin just asking me what I

01:03:49

need and what I really like about that

01:03:51

is it puts the ball back in that

01:03:53

person's Court to figure out what do I

01:03:55

need because no one's ever asked me do I

01:03:58

need to cry do I need to go to the gym

01:04:00

do I need to hit the punching bag go to

01:04:02

the ocean I don't know but at least now

01:04:04

someone's put it in your court to ask

01:04:07

what you need so it's actually having to

01:04:09

build the capacity getting the person to

01:04:11

build it for themselves by giving them a

01:04:13

platform to to work off and did I um did

01:04:17

I did I hear this on a podcast or did I

01:04:19

hear this somewhere um after one of your

01:04:21

shows of shop BR um you got bash someone

01:04:25

oh yes my cousin one my own yeah my own

01:04:27

cousin really my own cousin so we don't

01:04:31

have alcohol around shoper anymore okay

01:04:34

um was just the Catalyst oh yes so so

01:04:37

when we so occasionally we'd been to I'd

01:04:39

like say International theater festivals

01:04:41

you know Everyone likes to grab a wine

01:04:42

we'll grab a beer we'll grab a champagne

01:04:44

and we'll watch this thing about suicide

01:04:46

for some weird reason they want to drink

01:04:48

so we're at this Art Gallery it's an art

01:04:50

gallery in in the small community of

01:04:52

tanata and um

01:04:55

Tam it is our host he's an awesome host

01:04:57

oh cool yeah he's an awesome host I me

01:04:58

my new cousin i' never met before what I

01:05:00

didn't realize was he's had his own

01:05:03

issues and um Everybody not everybody I

01:05:06

always say

01:05:07

actually most people were drinking

01:05:09

alcohol before I was even presenting

01:05:12

getting some PR and no getting yeah

01:05:14

that's it pre drinks and and um this

01:05:18

cousin i s of listened to my instinct he

01:05:20

said yeah I'm feeling real nervous about

01:05:23

what you're about to do and I'm thinking

01:05:24

oh I because I didn't know I was like

01:05:26

we're related how cool I've got a new

01:05:28

cousin this is awesome that's what I'm

01:05:31

thinking and he I feel uncomfortable

01:05:32

about what you're doing I was like why I

01:05:34

haven't even started oh it's going to be

01:05:35

sweet is so he keeps getting on the piss

01:05:38

people are drinking and laughing he's

01:05:40

ring on the piss he in the first five

01:05:42

minutes he's just brooding he's brooding

01:05:44

he he he does he goes to the I Shar this

01:05:47

in shop bro so stuff that happens to me

01:05:49

on my life Journey gets put into side

01:05:51

shop bro that presentation oh so the

01:05:53

play just keeps getting longer and

01:05:54

longer well well I edit something but

01:05:58

the thing is it just it highlights that

01:06:02

if somebody is swirling already and they

01:06:04

got this mask on that they're this

01:06:07

person in society and you at alcohol and

01:06:10

drugs it amplifies that by a thousand so

01:06:15

what people are drinking I had a couple

01:06:16

of beers that night and I was like okay

01:06:17

I feel good I'm getting so much love

01:06:19

from the community I didn't realize that

01:06:21

cousin was still drinking and sizing me

01:06:23

up yeah he was waiting to he waiting for

01:06:25

the last person to leave to smash me

01:06:27

over I didn't realize that so what

01:06:29

happened took me by surprise and I

01:06:31

didn't take it too seriously because I

01:06:32

better talk my way we'll just get this

01:06:34

calm down but I didn't realize how drunk

01:06:36

he was and what in a he was in a fury

01:06:39

bro so Tomy it ended up saving my life

01:06:42

cuz this dude knocked me to the ground

01:06:43

he was quite a big boy and I was like oh

01:06:46

[ __ ] I'm in big trouble I Mis read this

01:06:48

whole situation with with my rose tinted

01:06:51

glasses going oh oh man he's going to oh

01:06:53

this C looking at me cuz he loves me no

01:06:55

this cousin wants to smash the [ __ ] out

01:06:57

of me cuz he's hiding from his own stuff

01:07:00

and drinking up a storm so from that t

01:07:04

saved my life very grateful very

01:07:05

grateful to him we make sure there's no

01:07:08

alcohol around shop bro because it goes

01:07:11

into those crunchy P parts that you're

01:07:13

hiding and I say this to everybody

01:07:15

alcohol and drugs amplify your internal

01:07:18

tanif or mental distress times a

01:07:20

thousand and um and at one International

01:07:24

Arts Festival I forgot to tell the

01:07:26

festival not to open the bar and they

01:07:28

add had a mini panic teack and was like

01:07:31

yeah we're in wies and I said can you

01:07:32

shut the bar why this is how we make

01:07:34

money cuz and I was oh this happened and

01:07:37

blah BL blah oh [ __ ] you didn't tell us

01:07:39

I know anyway I explain why I feeling

01:07:42

nervous about everybody drinking and

01:07:44

this lady came up to me afterwards

01:07:45

really well to do lady and she went you

01:07:47

know what Rob why are we drinking coming

01:07:50

to a suicide prevention play you made me

01:07:52

question why we're all drinking well we

01:07:55

should actually be having a cup of tea

01:07:56

or water to actually OBS process and I

01:07:59

thought at least one person got it the

01:08:01

other people like well it's sh the bar

01:08:03

for man I'm going to get on it this

01:08:05

guy's crazy this is Netflix on steroids

01:08:08

and um I totally understand it we we're

01:08:10

in a drinking culture which normalizes

01:08:12

certain things and if you don't question

01:08:13

it we'll just continue these habits I'm

01:08:16

not saying it's a bad thing but we're

01:08:18

around mental health and mental distress

01:08:20

no drinking bro yeah I I feel like there

01:08:22

is um there's like a turning of the tide

01:08:24

when it comes to alcohol like uh you

01:08:27

know I feel like if you if you go out

01:08:28

there and you say I'm not going to drink

01:08:31

you're not going to get the same sort of

01:08:32

judgment you would have got even like

01:08:33

five or 10 years ago I don't know maybe

01:08:35

I'm wrong about that no everyone's bit

01:08:36

more bit more chilled out depends what

01:08:38

circles you are suppose yeah you know

01:08:41

the more the manlier manlier ones come

01:08:43

on bro what you want a bloody lemonade

01:08:46

or something 0.0 why are you bothering

01:08:49

yeah why are you just go home um but

01:08:51

that's okay that's cool man I'm down

01:08:53

with that I laugh at that that doesn't

01:08:55

mean you know I don't take it personally

01:08:57

yeah and um when you get out of bed in

01:08:59

the morning now and you look in the

01:09:00

mirror you do you like the Rob that you

01:09:02

saying yeah I I I take my mental health

01:09:05

very daily I do like uh the T tapaa

01:09:08

which is the four walls four pillars uh

01:09:10

mental physical spiritual and family and

01:09:13

environment just the fifth one and I

01:09:15

check in on those every day inside

01:09:17

myself how am I mentally how am I

01:09:19

physically how am I spiritually how is

01:09:22

my father manying my two daughters in

01:09:24

particular and uh my partner and my

01:09:28

environment and I go cool my environment

01:09:30

is safe so I'm all about safe places

01:09:32

brother so daily I'm checking on my

01:09:34

mental health every morning yeah I wake

01:09:36

up like that okay got a sore knee okay

01:09:39

getting old BJJ you're an old man okay

01:09:41

ouch ow s back and knee okay but I'm

01:09:46

okay but how's but how's the mind I'm

01:09:47

okay with the body yeah you're welcome

01:09:49

to the 50s and but it's cool bro and

01:09:52

I've got a that's how my diagnostic my

01:09:53

daily diagnostic I forgot to um bring up

01:09:57

and ask you some questions about your

01:09:58

your daughter so she was 4 years old at

01:10:00

the time so

01:10:01

when like when did she find out about

01:10:03

things or how did she find out about

01:10:04

things well she was in the hospital

01:10:06

coming to visit me we didn't tell her

01:10:09

yeah at four I suppose she doesn't need

01:10:10

to know doesn't need to know she just

01:10:12

needs to know Dad's sick and needs love

01:10:14

and she would turn up with my ex partner

01:10:16

I'm really good friends with and um and

01:10:20

just hold my hand and walk me around the

01:10:21

ward like she was the adult and I was

01:10:23

the

01:10:24

because I had to relearn how to walk

01:10:26

again so my 19-year-old now still

01:10:31

doesn't want to see sh bro but my

01:10:32

12-year-old daughter has seen sh bro

01:10:34

about five times throughout with her mom

01:10:36

and her aunties and her cousins and and

01:10:38

her big thing for me is like Dad that's

01:10:41

not going to happen again is it and I

01:10:43

was like well actually thanks for asking

01:10:45

but no because Dad was hurt angry scared

01:10:47

confused and dad's got more tools now

01:10:50

dad knows he needs to talk about his

01:10:51

emotions so um we're allowed to talk F

01:10:54

and also I'm making sure she knows that

01:10:55

she's got promotion to talk about her

01:10:57

Emotions Don't bottle that [ __ ] up man

01:10:59

that

01:11:00

explodes yeah that's it doesn't go

01:11:02

anywhere does it it needs to be

01:11:04

addressed sooner or later and uh if you

01:11:06

address these things as they come along

01:11:07

it saves that pile of dirty laundry from

01:11:10

getting bigger and bigger absolutely why

01:11:12

why does the um so the the the she was

01:11:14

four at the time she's 19 now why does

01:11:17

she not want to say it too hard yes it

01:11:19

makes her too emotional she knows what

01:11:20

happened to Dad she knows what happened

01:11:22

to me it's just that like I don't want

01:11:24

to see it and feel it just she gets sad

01:11:26

you know it's like Dad I don't want to

01:11:27

see you looking hurt I don't want to see

01:11:28

you even though we just hang out on the

01:11:30

weekend having a great time watching

01:11:32

Netflix eating movie I mean not eating

01:11:34

movies eating popcorn and ice cream

01:11:36

still it's okay that's where she's at

01:11:38

emotionally and mentally like I don't

01:11:40

want to see Dad in that space yeah well

01:11:43

imagine like how how how different her

01:11:45

life would have been like had you been

01:11:48

successful absolutely absolutely um and

01:11:51

I and I've had a lot that's a that's a

01:11:53

lot for a kid to carry around absolutely

01:11:55

so I had a friend of mine so when I

01:11:57

survived this as I'm on the healing

01:11:59

process of hospitals I had a friend of

01:12:01

me friend of mine said female said to me

01:12:05

I'm really grateful to see you alive and

01:12:07

doing well I didn't tell you this but my

01:12:10

dad took his life and I was like what

01:12:13

I've known this lady for quite a few

01:12:15

years and I never knew that and she say

01:12:18

I'm I'm the I'm the Survivor of a of a

01:12:21

parent who took his life yeah and I was

01:12:23

like I didn't I felt instant UT half for

01:12:26

her I mean she's a good person already

01:12:28

but but that really Amplified my

01:12:31

survival yeah for my especially for both

01:12:34

daughters but for my eldest in

01:12:37

particular yeah that's really powerful

01:12:39

stuff um this is probably a great place

01:12:42

to end it but um I I know you've uh

01:12:45

given the the police officer involved um

01:12:47

a letter but you don't know what the

01:12:48

response was it's very unlikely but say

01:12:51

he was to ever view or listen to this

01:12:53

podcast what what would you what would

01:12:55

you want him to hear just what I wrote

01:12:57

in the letter I am truly sorry I created

01:13:00

that event and put you in that situation

01:13:03

I wasn't myself I was somebody who was

01:13:06

swirling in unresolved trauma spinning

01:13:08

out of control so my idol heart to you

01:13:11

and your family and I hope that you're

01:13:13

safe and healing and please um know

01:13:17

that if I could meet you with my good

01:13:20

friend Lance budet former police

01:13:22

negotiator over coffee sometime uh that

01:13:25

would be amazing Lance B actually said

01:13:27

to me Rob I'm a policeman who had a

01:13:29

mental breakdown on the police force i'

01:13:31

be i' be happy to facilitate so if that

01:13:34

person is out there just want to send my

01:13:36

utoh heart my respect and just say I'm

01:13:39

sorry I'm really truly sorry and I'm

01:13:41

using this now to help people and also

01:13:43

I'm trying to get into the police

01:13:45

because I get invited into military

01:13:47

bases by the way uh and so the police

01:13:49

have been cting me cuz I'd be able to

01:13:51

help them of how to deal with somebody

01:13:53

mental distress and help police look at

01:13:55

their own internal systems how to look

01:13:56

after themselves yeah so that's a

01:13:59

process that comes in and out of the

01:14:00

light by with occasional emails yeah and

01:14:04

I mean whether or not that um police

01:14:06

officer involved I suppose he's a victim

01:14:07

in this thing as well yes absolutely

01:14:10

whether or not he's forgiven you I

01:14:11

that's that's out of your hands but have

01:14:13

you forgiven yourself uh yes I have I

01:14:16

have now that I've unpacked where it all

01:14:18

came from I understand how that happened

01:14:22

and and I explained that in the

01:14:23

documentary and I explained this in shop

01:14:26

bro uh forums after shop bro

01:14:28

presentations it's kind of like my

01:14:30

friend said well I see what you've done

01:14:31

Rob you've synthesized she I was what

01:14:34

she you've synthesized therapy theater

01:14:38

and multiculture to create our healing

01:14:40

package I went have I okay I'm going to

01:14:42

pinch that but I want to share this a

01:14:45

lot of people helped me get here brother

01:14:48

I didn't when I didn't believe in myself

01:14:49

when I didn't think I was worthy enough

01:14:51

along this journey so I've a lot of Faro

01:14:54

and friends and new friends who've

01:14:56

helped me on this journey to be here

01:14:59

today I feel like that's a great place

01:15:01

to end it yeah keep doing your great

01:15:02

work you too brother yeah there's a

01:15:04

reason you survived and you're

01:15:05

definitely not squandering ad I

01:15:07

appreciate that thank you brother thanks

01:15:08

for this

01:15:09

[Music]

01:15:18

podcast

In this gripping episode, Rob Madaka takes listeners on a harrowing journey through his life-altering experience in July 2009, when he attempted suicide by cop. With raw honesty, he recounts the chaotic events leading up to that fateful day, detailing his mental breakdown, the police confrontation, and the aftermath of being shot. The conversation unfolds in chapters, allowing Rob to reflect on his past, the pain of his actions, and the long road to recovery.

Listeners are drawn into the emotional depths of Rob's story as he shares the complexities of mental health, the stigma surrounding it, and the importance of open conversations. His journey from despair to hope is both heart-wrenching and inspiring, showcasing the resilience of the human spirit. Rob's candidness about his struggles, including survivor's guilt and the impact on his family, resonates deeply, making this episode a powerful exploration of healing and redemption.

As he navigates the challenges of recovery, Rob emphasizes the significance of community, support, and the tools he's discovered along the way. His commitment to using humor and lived experience to address mental health issues shines through, making this episode not just a recounting of trauma, but a beacon of hope for those facing their own battles.

Badges

This episode stands out for the following:

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95
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95
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94
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Episode Highlights

The Moment of Crisis
Rob recounts the moment he provoked the police to shoot him, believing he deserved it.
“I thought I deserved a violent death.”
@ 02m 16s
October 15, 2023
A Second Chance at Life
Rob discusses how surviving the shooting has given him a purpose to help others.
“I feel it is... to normalize this conversation using humor and lived experience.”
@ 07m 07s
October 15, 2023
Facing Pain and Healing
Removing police presence allowed for a more peaceful healing process.
“I didn’t have police monitoring me and I was a very much more peaceful.”
@ 19m 37s
October 15, 2023
The Weight of Expectations
Releasing the burden of others' expectations can lead to personal freedom.
“The best weight you can lose is the weight of other people’s expectations of you.”
@ 29m 21s
October 15, 2023
The Journey of Vulnerability
Opening up about mental health can create a safe space for others.
“You show vulnerability and put your cards on the table.”
@ 35m 10s
October 15, 2023
Survivor's Guilt
Struggling with the question of why he survived when others didn't.
“Why am I still alive? I should be dead.”
@ 39m 22s
October 15, 2023
The Outpouring of Love
Friends and family showed up with love during his recovery, leaving him confused.
“I didn’t believe I deserved any of this.”
@ 40m 56s
October 15, 2023
Dodging a Bullet
Feeling grateful after avoiding a prison sentence, he reflects on his mental state.
“I literally was going to take my own life.”
@ 52m 59s
October 15, 2023
Navigating Recovery
Learning to deal with personal wounds is a crucial part of healing. "You have to deal with your own [ __ ] Rob."
“You have to deal with your own [ __ ] Rob.”
@ 54m 05s
October 15, 2023
Building a Support System
Creating a 'tight three' of trusted friends can help navigate mental health challenges. "It's too much for one person to hold."
“It's too much for one person to hold.”
@ 59m 58s
October 15, 2023
Asking for Help
Having someone ask what you need can be life-changing. "What do you need, cousin?"
“What do you need, cousin?”
@ 01h 03m 24s
October 15, 2023
Survivor's Connection
A friend shares her experience of losing her dad, amplifying the speaker's survival journey.
“I’m really grateful to see you alive and doing well”
@ 01h 12m 05s
October 15, 2023

Episode Quotes

Key Moments

Public Breakdown01:10
Second Chance06:39
Mental Health Struggles23:34
Outpouring Love40:56
Rebuilding53:52
Navigating Pain54:32
Childhood Reflection1:11:19
Survivor's Story1:12:05

Words per Minute Over Time

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October 20, 2023

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00:44

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