00:00:06
Jack Church, welcome to my podcast.
00:00:07
Cool. Pleasure to be here. And this is
00:00:09
your very first podcast experience.
00:00:12
Yeah. Yeah. I haven't done anything like
00:00:13
this. So, um excited. I think it was
00:00:16
your someone I I hadn't even heard of
00:00:18
you and uh someone I think it was your
00:00:20
sister-in-law messaged me on Instagram
00:00:21
saying you should get Jack on. Yeah.
00:00:23
Yeah. She did that. Threw me under the
00:00:25
bus or maybe gave me the best
00:00:26
opportunity ever. So, we'll see how it
00:00:27
goes. Well, you never know. But I feel
00:00:29
like you're a from what I've learned
00:00:30
about you um in researching for this
00:00:33
podcast, you're a you're a guy that says
00:00:34
yes more than no. Yeah, definitely. I'm
00:00:36
always keen to say yes. And that was
00:00:38
before um the time that changed my life,
00:00:41
but even afterwards, still keen to say
00:00:44
yes. Yeah. So, we're going to there's so
00:00:46
much to the Jack Church story and we're
00:00:48
going to unpack all of it. Um first of
00:00:50
all, paint a picture of Jack Church
00:00:52
before 2021. Who was that guy? Um that
00:00:56
guy was uh sporty, athletic, um pretty
00:01:00
much into health and fitness uh as a PT
00:01:03
in the Navy, so physical trainer um in
00:01:05
the Navy. And yeah, he was um just all
00:01:09
about fitness and just coaching other
00:01:11
people, getting other people to achieve
00:01:12
their goals, getting people fit um to
00:01:14
serve in the Navy and yeah, just loving
00:01:16
life really.
00:01:18
So you're you're a savage. So you you're
00:01:20
like as fit as what anyone could be,
00:01:21
like in the sort of top 2%, top 5%. I'd
00:01:24
like to think so. Um, yeah, I was pretty
00:01:26
fit. I was lucky to obviously be working
00:01:28
in a gym, so I had the opportunities to
00:01:30
keep fit, keep health, um, keep nice and
00:01:33
healthy. Yeah, I was pretty fit. So,
00:01:36
that was 2021. And then that was the um
00:01:39
that was the year that your life turned
00:01:40
upside down. So, you you're 26 years
00:01:42
old. Yeah, correct. And and what what
00:01:45
happens? What are the symptoms? Uh so
00:01:47
the first symptom that I thought that I
00:01:49
can remember was just like general
00:01:50
fatigue like um sleeping like naps
00:01:54
during the day and stuff which is not
00:01:56
really normal for me. I'd be able to
00:01:57
wake up, go to work and be fine for um
00:01:59
right through to the night time. Um so
00:02:01
that was sort of the first symptom and
00:02:04
then eventually um I just got more and
00:02:06
more fatigue. There was no pain though.
00:02:09
There was no pain. It was just fatigue
00:02:11
like just almost like um the hung over
00:02:14
feeling like feeling hung over just
00:02:15
drained sort of that was the vibe that I
00:02:17
sort of got and that was the sort of
00:02:19
first symptom that I noticed about me.
00:02:22
And no amount of blue parade was fixing
00:02:24
it. No amount of blue parade, no amount
00:02:27
of water, no amount of any tricks or
00:02:29
anything. Nothing. So So what do you
00:02:30
what do you think? Cuz you're you're
00:02:32
quite in tune with your body. Are you
00:02:33
aware that something's wrong or you you
00:02:35
think it's you're just getting older?
00:02:36
What what do you think it is? Yeah, I
00:02:38
thought um I thought I was overtraining.
00:02:40
So, I thought, okay, maybe I'm pushing
00:02:42
my body too far. Maybe I need to dial
00:02:44
back and just add some recovery in and
00:02:46
rest more and then allow my body to
00:02:48
heal. Um so, I did do that. Dropped back
00:02:50
the training. Um and nothing changed.
00:02:53
So, I was like, okay, that's that's
00:02:55
weird. Then I started to think, well,
00:02:58
what could it be? Like, and then I
00:03:00
started to have trouble breathing. So
00:03:02
that was the next symptom that sort of
00:03:03
came on like sort of shallow breaths,
00:03:05
having to try and really focus on my
00:03:07
breathing rather than just letting it
00:03:09
happen uh naturally. Um so that was
00:03:11
another symptom that sort of I guess
00:03:14
started to trigger alarms for me. Um and
00:03:18
then eventually I remember like starting
00:03:20
to walk upstairs and having to stop at
00:03:22
the top and that was like I was like,
00:03:24
"Oh, okay. Something's definitely not
00:03:26
right." Normally I could walk up a set
00:03:27
of stairs and be fine, but I couldn't
00:03:30
even get to the top without having a
00:03:31
stop sort of thing. Yeah. And and at
00:03:33
what point did you um seek some medical
00:03:36
intervention? That was about then. Um so
00:03:39
once Oh, you waited until you could
00:03:40
barely climb the stairs. Yeah. Yeah. So
00:03:42
I waited. How long what sort of time
00:03:44
span are we talking? Uh maybe um it's
00:03:46
hard to think, but I'll probably say
00:03:49
around Feb that I had early symptoms.
00:03:52
Then
00:03:53
around it would have been like April
00:03:57
that I finally went. So like two months
00:04:00
10 weeks perhaps. Yeah. Yeah. Probably.
00:04:02
Yeah. Of just Do you are you embarrassed
00:04:03
now? Like you should see Definitely.
00:04:06
When I look back on it, I'm almost like
00:04:07
why did I wait so long? But if if you if
00:04:09
you went at the earliest possible
00:04:11
convenience, would it have made any
00:04:13
difference? Um I don't know. Hard to
00:04:16
tell. hard to tell to see where at what
00:04:18
stage uh my heart was at and just where
00:04:21
it was. But yeah, I don't know. It would
00:04:23
have been interesting to see if I did go
00:04:25
to that early stage what the I guess the
00:04:28
rest of the journey would have been like
00:04:29
and how it would have paid out. Cuz us
00:04:31
men in New Zealand, we're notoriously
00:04:33
bad for this. Oh, notoriously bad. And
00:04:35
I'm example number one. Um yeah, so
00:04:39
that's definitely been a learning curve.
00:04:41
Yeah. If you're a PT and it gets to the
00:04:43
point after a couple of months where
00:04:45
you're you're napping through the day
00:04:46
and you're struggling to walk upstairs,
00:04:48
bro, there's some alarms going. So, and
00:04:51
um Okay. So, you you you eventually uh
00:04:54
get medical intervention and then um how
00:04:55
long is it before they they figure out
00:04:57
what's wrong with you? Uh so, I go to
00:05:00
the doctors. We um I came with the
00:05:03
symptoms of struggling to breathe. So,
00:05:05
they initially thought it might be my
00:05:06
lungs.
00:05:07
Um, so they gave me an inhaler um, just
00:05:11
to see if they could help open my
00:05:13
airways um, and come back in a week and
00:05:15
see if nothing's changed. And nothing
00:05:17
did change. Um, so then I went back, we
00:05:22
got another X-ray and that's when they
00:05:24
found out that's when they seen like the
00:05:25
size of my heart was pretty much
00:05:28
normally obviously the size of your
00:05:29
fist, but it was about this big. So it
00:05:31
was coming across my sternum and that's
00:05:33
when they sent me to Northshore Hospital
00:05:35
and that was
00:05:37
um 24th I think of May or 20 Yeah, 24th
00:05:42
of May. Yeah, I think I got admitted
00:05:44
into Northshore Hospital. What was that
00:05:46
like? Was that scary? Uh confusing.
00:05:49
Confusing. I'd say confusing. Yeah, not
00:05:51
scary.
00:05:52
Um once I seen the X-rays like, "Hey,
00:05:55
just pop in to the Northshore Hospital.
00:05:57
um they'll be able to do some more check
00:05:59
some more diagnosis and then we'll be
00:06:00
able to figure out what the plan is from
00:06:02
here. So I just bought an overnight bag
00:06:04
sort of thing thinking we'll just see
00:06:06
what's going on really. So I didn't
00:06:07
really have any fear or anything just
00:06:10
confusion. Okay, maybe we'll find out
00:06:12
the cause now. Um and yeah, so they they
00:06:16
do they do some tests and things and
00:06:17
then when do they figure out what's
00:06:18
wrong? Yeah, so they ran some tests. Um,
00:06:21
I remember being asleep in the
00:06:24
Northshore Hospital. Um, and my flatmate
00:06:26
was there and she could see like my
00:06:29
chest, my heart beating in my chest and
00:06:31
I was I think my heart rate was 120
00:06:32
beats per minute and I was asleep. Yeah.
00:06:34
What would your resting heart rate
00:06:36
normally be? Uh, 42, right? Wow. Yeah.
00:06:38
So, it was nearly triple. Um,
00:06:41
so we were talking just before I did
00:06:43
this um um mountain run over the
00:06:45
weekend, the Kepler challenge and uh I
00:06:47
think at one point on the uphill I was
00:06:48
looking at my watch and it was like 120
00:06:50
beats a minute. Yeah. Yeah. So you're
00:06:52
going uphill while I was just sleeping.
00:06:54
So it's crazy what the what the body can
00:06:56
do.
00:06:57
Um but yeah, so once that happened, run
00:07:01
through some tests and then they said,
00:07:02
"Hey, this is a bit bigger than what we
00:07:04
can chew. We're going to send you to
00:07:06
Oakland Hospital." And that was on the
00:07:08
26th. Yeah. 26th of May. So they 2 days
00:07:12
later I was off to Oakland. And I think
00:07:14
that's when I sort of knew, okay, like
00:07:17
if Northshore can't deal with it and I'm
00:07:18
going to Oakland, this is going to be I
00:07:21
don't know bigger than what I thought,
00:07:24
but I still was confused of what was
00:07:26
going on. I didn't really have an actual
00:07:27
diagnosis then. So it was all just more
00:07:30
tests and more X-rays and all that sort
00:07:32
of stuff. How long did it take to to
00:07:33
figure out what the problem was?
00:07:35
Um around about a month. Um so you're in
00:07:38
hospital the whole time? Yeah. Yeah.
00:07:41
Yeah. So I was in hospital in a ward
00:07:43
with old dudes. Yeah. Yeah. I was
00:07:46
looking around going think I'm
00:07:48
definitely the youngest by far here. Um
00:07:51
we sort of felt out of place. I don't
00:07:53
know if I'm meant to be in here. But um
00:07:56
but yeah that was about a yeah I'd say a
00:07:58
month of just test like inotropes doing
00:08:01
this medication all these sort of x-rays
00:08:04
IVs going up testing the heart
00:08:06
everything and it was about yeah
00:08:10
June end of June where they made the de
00:08:14
um they came in and said yeah I think
00:08:16
you're going to need a transplant and I
00:08:18
was like oh okay
00:08:21
um I think the first feeling that I had
00:08:24
was
00:08:25
relief. Um just cuz finally found the
00:08:30
issue or like the problem and that there
00:08:32
is a solution to the problem. So that
00:08:34
was my first feeling of more relief than
00:08:36
anything.
00:08:37
What did you what what did you know
00:08:39
about um like organ transplantation and
00:08:42
in particular heart donation at that
00:08:43
point? I'm guessing [ __ ] all. Yeah,
00:08:45
absolutely nothing. Um it's just not
00:08:47
something you hear about. I think think
00:08:48
the year you got it done there were 14
00:08:50
transplants heart transplants in New
00:08:52
Zealand. It's like that rare. Yeah.
00:08:54
Yeah. It's crazy. Um Um So when you get
00:08:57
get told that is the like is the room
00:08:58
spinning? Like what do you um No. No.
00:09:02
Yeah. Like when I get told I think Yeah.
00:09:05
It's a small relief. Like I was like
00:09:06
finally cuz obviously I've been in
00:09:08
hospital for a month and previous to all
00:09:11
of this I'd been active. So I'm going
00:09:13
stir crazy in there not being able to do
00:09:15
anything, not be able to be myself and
00:09:17
not be able to get outside. Um, so when
00:09:19
they finally found the problem, I was
00:09:22
like, "Okay, there's going to be a
00:09:23
solution here and then I can get back on
00:09:25
the road." So that's instantly where my
00:09:27
mind went was straight to the solution.
00:09:29
All right, now we can start. It felt
00:09:30
like we could move forward now. Whereas
00:09:32
in that whole month during hospital,
00:09:34
it's just going like this. Like every
00:09:37
night I was just like, what what's
00:09:38
tomorrow going to look like? Jeez,
00:09:39
you've got such a good mindset, eh?
00:09:41
Where does this come from? You just you
00:09:43
just wired this way. Is this how you
00:09:45
were raised? Just learned. I think I
00:09:48
think I just grew up around a good
00:09:50
environment um around good people. It's
00:09:54
hard to pinpoint where it came from. Um
00:09:57
I don't know if the military had
00:09:59
something to do with it as well. Just
00:10:00
always trying to find the solution
00:10:03
rather than dwell on a problem like cuz
00:10:05
obviously that in a military sort of
00:10:07
sense you you're looking at trouble
00:10:09
straight away. So you always got to be
00:10:11
looking for a solution. I think that
00:10:13
sort of just those skills sort of just
00:10:14
transferred across into this sort of
00:10:16
situation um and the skills that I
00:10:19
didn't know I had um until I got put
00:10:21
into that situation.
00:10:23
What what's the what's the solution if
00:10:24
you sink an $80 million boat in some try
00:10:27
and find another one.
00:10:30
Get on trade me marketplace. see what's
00:10:32
going
00:10:34
um okay so you get told you need a heart
00:10:36
transplant then um do do you start just
00:10:39
googling furiously yourself or or do
00:10:42
they do they do they give you like a
00:10:44
bunch of scenarios like do they tell you
00:10:45
what the success failure rate is and
00:10:47
yeah so theos the nurses and doctors are
00:10:49
really good um laid everything out um
00:10:52
previously you know I've always learned
00:10:54
about never Google what your symptoms
00:10:56
are cuz it's always cancer yeah it's
00:10:58
always kids always just death straight
00:11:00
away so I'm just like okay we'll just
00:11:01
stay off Google. Um, that'll be the best
00:11:03
thing. Um, but yeah, I think the nurses
00:11:07
pretty much laid everything out. Um, in
00:11:10
my head when I got told transplant, I
00:11:12
was like, well, I'm not the first. So,
00:11:14
and it's like, what was it? 2021 then.
00:11:17
Surely we've got a good system in place
00:11:19
where the success rate should be high.
00:11:21
Obviously, there's risk with any
00:11:22
surgery, no matter how big or how small.
00:11:25
Um, so I just tried to dwell on that
00:11:27
positive side like, well, I'm not the
00:11:29
first, like, and I won't be the last. I
00:11:31
had faith in the doctors and trust that
00:11:34
we'll be back out on the road. And for
00:11:35
some reason, I just knew it wasn't my
00:11:37
time to it's not my time. By the way, I
00:11:39
really love that um that that saying you
00:11:41
just used like dwell on the positive.
00:11:43
Like I've never heard that saying
00:11:44
before, but it's such a good way of
00:11:45
framing things. Yeah. You dwelling
00:11:48
generally is only associated with um
00:11:49
like negative outcomes, isn't it? Yeah.
00:11:51
Yeah. Most people Yeah. do associate
00:11:53
that with negative 100%. Okay. And then
00:11:55
Okay. So, you're you're good with it. Um
00:11:58
then you tell your parents. Have you got
00:12:00
a part you got a partner? Uh no, don't
00:12:02
have a partner. But um but you've got
00:12:03
Yeah. You got like parents or siblings
00:12:05
or people that love you? What what's
00:12:06
their reaction like when you tell them?
00:12:08
Yeah, theirs was
00:12:09
um Yeah, I guess probably worse than
00:12:12
mine. Yeah. Is that was that when it
00:12:13
sort of crystallizes it for you just
00:12:14
what a big deal this is? Yeah. Yeah, I
00:12:16
think so. Um I remember sending a
00:12:19
message to my flatmate saying, "Hey, I
00:12:21
got to just check into hospital, check
00:12:23
my heart." and sent that to mom and dad
00:12:25
as well. And yeah, instantly they
00:12:27
obviously pressed the panic button.
00:12:29
Um but yeah, that's when yeah, they cuz
00:12:33
parents live down in Nelson, so they
00:12:35
were coming up. But yeah, that I think
00:12:37
they were more worried than I was um to
00:12:41
be I guess that's pretty fair. But yeah,
00:12:43
I was too busy trying to get back on the
00:12:48
road to worry about anything else. So
00:12:51
yeah. So, what are some of the bullet
00:12:52
points they give you? Like the the
00:12:54
chance of um success, how long the heart
00:12:56
lasts, uh what the outcomes are
00:12:58
afterwards, what you can and can't do.
00:13:00
Yeah, I can't remember the actual
00:13:01
percentage of success. Um but they did
00:13:05
say on average a heart last 16 years and
00:13:07
that's give and take like it's a
00:13:09
ballpark figure. Obviously, there's so
00:13:11
many factors involved whether how you
00:13:13
treat it with your what you like with
00:13:14
your medications, what your lifestyle is
00:13:16
like. So, there's obviously so uh so
00:13:18
much variance to that sort of ballpark
00:13:20
figure. I've met people that have got 25
00:13:22
years and are still ticking away. So,
00:13:24
it's quite cool to meet those people and
00:13:26
realize that 16 years. When I heard 16
00:13:28
years, I was like, "That's not long.
00:13:30
That seems quite quick." Um, and then
00:13:32
I'll be back under again. But yeah, when
00:13:35
I met people at 25, I was like, "Okay,
00:13:36
we'll be able to keep going with this
00:13:38
sticker. My lifestyle is pretty I'd like
00:13:41
to say it's pretty good in order to
00:13:44
stretch that ballpark figure out." M and
00:13:46
in terms of um like rigorous exercise
00:13:48
and things afterwards, do they encourage
00:13:50
you to be active or are you discouraged
00:13:52
from pushing it? Yeah. So I was one of
00:13:54
the first to undergo the study in
00:13:56
hospital um from the physios where they
00:14:00
just um introduce moving as soon as
00:14:03
possible after transplant. So in when I
00:14:06
was in the ICU bed like I had to get
00:14:09
minutes I think I t out 45 minutes a day
00:14:12
but that could be anything from
00:14:13
squeezing a ball and I'd start the clock
00:14:15
moving my feet pressing against the bed
00:14:18
any movement and then trying to get I
00:14:20
guess movement as soon as possible and
00:14:23
see if that um the outcome of that
00:14:25
better rather than letting the body just
00:14:27
sit and rest. M um so that from there
00:14:30
again was another mental like win for me
00:14:33
cuz being an active person and they're
00:14:35
like I need you to hit 45 minutes a day.
00:14:37
So that was my focus every day in ICU. I
00:14:39
got to get my 45 minutes. And because it
00:14:41
wasn't lifting a barbell or running up a
00:14:44
hill, it was just could be squeezing a
00:14:45
ball. So I say definitely achievable. Um
00:14:48
and obviously I had all the time in the
00:14:49
world at that point. I was just sitting
00:14:51
in bed doing nothing. Um just yarning
00:14:53
with old mates. Yeah, exactly. Um so I
00:14:56
was like surely I can achieve 45
00:14:57
minutes. And then
00:15:00
eventually, yeah, when I was healed, the
00:15:03
heart rate needed to stay down. I
00:15:05
couldn't go straight back. My history of
00:15:07
training is CrossFit. So, I couldn't go
00:15:09
straight back to CrossFit cuz it was too
00:15:10
intense. So, I just had to monitor, I
00:15:12
guess, my symptoms and just gradually
00:15:15
build that fitness back up and be
00:15:17
patient, which is not my forte at all.
00:15:20
Oh, we've only been going about 15
00:15:22
minutes, but um yeah, you're painting a
00:15:23
very clear picture of just what an
00:15:25
impatient fell you are. Um, okay. So,
00:15:28
you're just backing up a little bit. So,
00:15:30
um, September 2021, that's when you went
00:15:32
on a wait list for a heart transplant.
00:15:34
And what do they what do they tell you
00:15:36
at that point? It's not a case of having
00:15:37
like a store room or a freezer with with
00:15:40
a bunch of hearts and they just grab
00:15:41
one, right? Yeah. Yeah. Correct. So, um,
00:15:44
what they tell you is,
00:15:45
uh, we're going to put you on the active
00:15:48
waiting list and that just means your
00:15:50
body's good to go and then you got to
00:15:51
wait for a heart and that could be 1
00:15:54
hour to 2 years. You don't know, right?
00:15:57
Um the bad part about this is that you
00:15:59
have to wait for someone else's
00:16:00
misfortune for your fortune. Um so that
00:16:03
was the hard pill to swallow. Um in
00:16:05
terms of compatibility, what is it? Is
00:16:08
it the same blood type? Is that Yeah. So
00:16:09
same blood type, uh same size or like
00:16:12
relatively the size. So if you got like
00:16:14
a 120 kg male, big ticker, you can't
00:16:17
really put that into a 60 kg male cuz it
00:16:19
just won't physically fit. Um so they
00:16:22
got to base on that and gender doesn't
00:16:24
actually matter. Um, which I found quite
00:16:26
surprising. So, you could get a woman's
00:16:28
heart and a woman could get a male's
00:16:29
heart. Um, imagine that if you suddenly
00:16:31
became all emotional and be like, "Why
00:16:33
am I crying at romcoms?" Yeah, exactly.
00:16:36
Well, I didn't think Wicked the Musical
00:16:37
would be so sad. Yeah. So, personally um
00:16:39
I was not keen for a woman's heart.
00:16:41
Nothing against women, but um I was
00:16:44
like, "Yeah, I was like, that's
00:16:45
interesting. Found that quite
00:16:46
interesting." But yeah, that's
00:16:47
fascinating. So, so age doesn't matter.
00:16:49
So, they're not looking for someone
00:16:51
they're looking for a young heart for
00:16:52
you. Ideally, ideally age has a little
00:16:55
factor, but at the end of the day, like
00:16:57
if the shoe fits, the shoe fits no
00:16:58
matter what the age was. Yeah. So, how
00:17:01
long was it
00:17:02
before um after being told that you know
00:17:06
heart Oh, by the way, what would have
00:17:07
happened if you know the alternative?
00:17:09
Say say it's a heart transplant or was
00:17:12
there medication they could have put you
00:17:13
on or anything they could have done with
00:17:15
with your original heart? Uh so that's
00:17:17
what they tried to do. So they tried to
00:17:19
do the uh medication, they tried to do
00:17:21
theotropes, tried to bring it back down
00:17:23
to a normal size, like cuz it was so
00:17:25
big, it was working overtime. They tried
00:17:27
to bring that that heart um back down to
00:17:29
a normal size, slow the heart rate down,
00:17:31
but just nothing was working. Um and a
00:17:34
heart ejection fracture normally is 60%,
00:17:37
so you get pretty much pump around 60%.
00:17:40
Mine was down to 5%. Um so it was pretty
00:17:43
much knocking on the door really. So
00:17:45
they had to bridge the gap to
00:17:47
transplant. So they put me on this thing
00:17:49
called a BVAD. So it's another open
00:17:51
heart surgery. Um BVAD VAD stands for
00:17:54
ventricular assistance device. So it's
00:17:56
just a pump in the left ventricle and in
00:17:58
the right ventricle and that now pumps
00:18:00
my heart for me. So I had these two sort
00:18:03
of cords coming out my stomach, these
00:18:05
bags, these like manbag sort of things,
00:18:07
batteries, and they were pumping my
00:18:08
heart in order to bridge that gap to
00:18:11
transplant cuz they don't know if I
00:18:13
would have made it. So if they just left
00:18:14
me there, it's like a ticking time bomb
00:18:16
really. Um so they put these in and then
00:18:18
the VADS you can say on the VADS system
00:18:21
for pretty much life really. Um so it's
00:18:23
just a I know America do put uh patients
00:18:27
on for life whereas New Zealand we use
00:18:28
it as a bridge to transplant so it's not
00:18:31
a forever thing. So how long were you
00:18:33
were you going around carrying? Yeah. So
00:18:35
that was uh July July the 11th or 16th I
00:18:40
think it was that I had that surgery.
00:18:44
Um and then October 4th was when I had
00:18:47
the transplant. So yeah, a couple
00:18:50
months. But those So you're at home or
00:18:52
you Yeah. Yeah. So this was during that
00:18:54
big lockdown in Oakuckland. Um so if
00:18:57
there was ever a time to do it, it was
00:18:58
that time because the rest of the world
00:19:00
was still as well. So um I didn't
00:19:02
actually have too much to do. Yeah. To
00:19:04
do and neither did anyone else out there
00:19:06
in the world. That sounds really
00:19:08
inconvenient. Doesn't sound like a
00:19:09
long-term solution carrying around.
00:19:11
Yeah. They were pricks of a thing. Um,
00:19:14
but they made me feel better than what I
00:19:17
did not having them. Um, so I was
00:19:19
thankful for that. But yeah, they were
00:19:20
very annoying. Like a shower, just to
00:19:22
have a shower, transfer them into like a
00:19:24
wet bag sort of thing. Like a dry bag,
00:19:26
sorry. Like put patches on it so it
00:19:28
wouldn't the cords wouldn't get wet. The
00:19:30
whole shower would take about just an
00:19:32
hour just to get everything sorted. So I
00:19:34
had to sleep with them, plug them in at
00:19:36
night. So like almost like hook myself
00:19:39
up to the power, the main power. So, I'd
00:19:41
be sleeping on my back with the bags
00:19:43
right there. Um, so yeah, that all that
00:19:45
sort of stuff was it was good cuz it
00:19:48
made me feel a lot better, but it was a
00:19:50
pain in the ass in the in as well. How
00:19:54
did how did you stay positive? Did you
00:19:55
stay positive? Cuz you you're not sure
00:19:57
how long you're not sure if this is
00:19:59
going to be your new normal or how long
00:20:00
this is going to be. Yeah, exactly. Um,
00:20:02
did you did you get down in the dumps?
00:20:04
Yeah, definitely. Definitely. In that
00:20:06
stage, that was probably my biggest down
00:20:07
in the dump stage with these bags. They
00:20:09
were just I was trying to stay positive
00:20:12
that it made me feel good, but they were
00:20:14
just honestly like so annoying. Um was
00:20:17
hard to eat, shower, everything that I'd
00:20:19
normally do was just um a pain in the
00:20:22
ass really. Um so yeah, I that would
00:20:24
probably be my darkest time. Um and
00:20:27
definitely went deep deep into that dark
00:20:30
time too cuz as soon as it pretty much
00:20:33
unhook the power like that's it your
00:20:34
heart will pretty much stop. M so there
00:20:38
was times where I was like not ready to
00:20:41
pull the cord but had the thoughts of
00:20:43
just pulling the cord and then I just
00:20:45
had to yeah pull myself out of that sort
00:20:48
of mindset and realize that it isn't
00:20:50
forever like this is just a bridge like
00:20:52
it's only a bridge like you would get
00:20:53
past this and that's pretty much where I
00:20:55
had to keep looking once I dived into
00:20:57
those dig dark spots I was like we've
00:20:59
got to look have to look forward thanks
00:21:01
for sharing that did you are you good at
00:21:03
talking to people about this stuff or
00:21:05
you just sort of work it out in your
00:21:07
Yeah. Um, definitely a classic male. Um,
00:21:11
work it out on my own. Um, never really
00:21:13
told people that I went to those sort of
00:21:16
spots. I mean, some people still don't
00:21:18
know now. Um, hi guys. Welcome to the
00:21:21
podcast. Now they do. Yeah. Jack's sorry
00:21:24
in future he'll talk to you about these
00:21:25
things. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I think
00:21:27
my old man was the first one to ask me
00:21:29
actually. He asked a hard question. and
00:21:31
he's like, "Hey, did um this is going to
00:21:33
be a tough question to ask, but did you
00:21:35
have like suicidal thoughts during your
00:21:38
journey?" And it caught me off guard um
00:21:41
as Miles, we don't really talk about
00:21:42
that or ask those questions. Um but I
00:21:45
was quite proud of my old man for
00:21:46
actually hitting me up and asking that
00:21:49
question. Um and I was relieved to get
00:21:50
it off my chest to say, "Yeah, I did."
00:21:52
Um I definitely had those thoughts. Um
00:21:54
but it was only for a very short amount
00:21:56
of time and then I just had to push
00:21:58
through it. But yeah, he's proud of him
00:22:01
for asking.
00:22:03
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It probably took a lot
00:22:05
of courage for him to ask, but but you,
00:22:07
you know, I'm proud of you for telling
00:22:08
him as well, cuz you could have easily
00:22:09
just been like, "Yeah, no, sweet." Yeah.
00:22:11
Yeah. Which is what pretty much I still
00:22:14
do now. Really? Yeah. I I saw a
00:22:18
therapist a while ago and she um she she
00:22:20
asked me at the time like she said uh
00:22:22
you know, have you ever had you know,
00:22:23
suicidal thoughts? And I I felt really
00:22:25
embarrassed about saying, but I'm like,
00:22:27
yeah, yeah, from time to time. and she
00:22:29
made me feel good. She just
00:22:38
sug her her fourth floor office at the
00:22:40
time. And she's like, "I mean, you know,
00:22:41
you or I could just go out there and
00:22:42
jump off the balcony now and it'd be
00:22:44
over and done within 5 seconds." So, it
00:22:46
made me feel it was actually like a
00:22:47
relief off my shoulders cuz I thought,
00:22:48
"Oh, having these thoughts in itself is
00:22:51
not abnormal." Yeah. Um, it's just, I
00:22:53
suppose, a worrying thing if you get
00:22:54
further down and you start to like
00:22:56
implement a plan. Yeah. Yeah. So I
00:22:58
didn't try to shrug off the thought. I
00:23:00
was sort of acknowledged that I was like
00:23:02
okay we have gone into this dark spot
00:23:05
but yeah let's try and not go further.
00:23:08
Let's just look forward now. It's
00:23:10
unnerving though like when you're a
00:23:11
positive and um optimistic guy like you
00:23:13
and suddenly you find yourself you know
00:23:16
thinking negatively. Yeah it was quite
00:23:18
triggering. Yeah it was a shock um
00:23:20
during that time in the hospital because
00:23:23
I was always so positive at the start. I
00:23:25
thought I won't get to that point cuz
00:23:27
like there was all these counselors and
00:23:28
stuff that the nurses offered me support
00:23:31
like cuz you know of the traumatic
00:23:33
situation I guess but for me I was like
00:23:35
I won't get there I won't get there and
00:23:36
for me to get there it was quite a like
00:23:38
shock and a realization that okay we did
00:23:41
arrive here but in hindsight you can see
00:23:43
it makes perfect sense though right cuz
00:23:45
fitness is such a big cornerstone of
00:23:47
your life it's actually like part of who
00:23:49
you are as a person and suddenly that's
00:23:50
stripped away. Yeah. And it as you say
00:23:53
it was suddenly like if you look at it
00:23:55
in January I was swinging a barbell
00:23:58
around running around and then in sort
00:24:00
of fe March born May I'm in the
00:24:02
hospital. So yeah it was suddenly just
00:24:05
gone. Yeah. And just not knowing not
00:24:08
knowing when the end was in sight just
00:24:09
due to the nature of um heart
00:24:11
transplants. So and that takes us to um
00:24:14
Sunday have I got the date right? Sunday
00:24:16
October 10. October 4th. Sunday October
00:24:19
4. Uh 2021 5:00 a.m. you get a phone
00:24:22
call. Yeah. Why is your phone not in
00:24:24
flight mode or sleep mode? That was the
00:24:26
only time that I wasn't. Um yeah, I'm
00:24:29
notorious for um having my phone in
00:24:32
flight mode. Um just so I don't get
00:24:35
disturbed. But this time when I was
00:24:37
waiting for the heart on the list, I was
00:24:39
like, I'm going to have to sleep with my
00:24:40
phone on loud. Everything good to go. Um
00:24:43
cuz the surgeon tells you like when when
00:24:45
we're ready to go, we're ready to go.
00:24:46
Yeah, pretty much. Um, obviously the
00:24:48
benefit I lived in Devport at the time,
00:24:51
so I was only just over the bridge
00:24:52
towards hospital.
00:24:55
Um, and it was quite funny like my
00:24:58
flatmate just started dating this guy.
00:25:01
Um, and the one night she's like, "Can I
00:25:04
go stay at um his house?" I was like,
00:25:07
"Yeah, I'll be fine. Honestly, go stay.
00:25:09
You've already done heaps for me. Go
00:25:11
have a night um with him." And then the
00:25:14
one time that happens, I get the phone
00:25:15
call in the morning and she's got her
00:25:19
phone on airplane mode, so I'm trying to
00:25:20
ring her in the morning. Hey, can you
00:25:22
drive me to hospital? The the tickets
00:25:24
arrive, you know, like um and then could
00:25:27
you not just get an Uber? Well, I could
00:25:29
have, but me being me, her truck was
00:25:31
right there, so I just jumped in the
00:25:33
truck and just drove over. I was like,
00:25:35
"Wow, I got to get there." Yeah. It
00:25:37
serves It serves her right when she ends
00:25:38
up with a Wilson's parking bill of $800.
00:25:40
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So, I was like,
00:25:42
"Ah, well, we just jumped in the truck."
00:25:44
Um, were you were you advised like not
00:25:46
to drive at that point? Definitely.
00:25:48
Yeah, definitely not not allowed to
00:25:49
drive with the bags. Um, it didn't help
00:25:51
that her trucks are manual, too. So, I'm
00:25:53
trying to like push this thing with a
00:25:54
weak chest at the moment.
00:25:56
Um, but yeah, the feeling of that phone
00:25:59
call was quite I
00:26:02
guess excitement really, like nerves,
00:26:05
excitement, like fear. It all sort of
00:26:08
just cycled. And then one of the initial
00:26:10
things like I was g like was grief
00:26:12
because someone's just passed away
00:26:14
obviously in order for me to have this.
00:26:16
Yeah. What do you what what do you know?
00:26:18
We'll get to um we'll get to um the um
00:26:22
the donor's story later on. But yet what
00:26:24
what are you told about the heart and
00:26:27
and the heart's origin? Nothing.
00:26:29
Nothing. Yeah. So you pretty much get
00:26:31
told like it's a um I pretty all I got
00:26:34
told was it was a young male similar age
00:26:37
and that was it. Um it is for security
00:26:39
reasons um and medical and confidence
00:26:43
sort of stuff but yeah that's all that I
00:26:45
got told. Yeah I was going to ask you
00:26:48
about that like um there's a thing
00:26:49
called survivors guilt. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah
00:26:52
definitely.
00:26:54
Um and that guilt pretty much
00:26:57
transferred into motivation really. I
00:27:00
was like okay like I've just been given
00:27:03
the gift of a lifetime. Pretty much the
00:27:05
gift of life really.
00:27:07
um how can I sort of honor that and
00:27:11
instead of having that guilt survivor's
00:27:13
guilt and using that okay what's next
00:27:16
how do we achieve stuff that will keep
00:27:19
this person living just as much as me
00:27:21
living pretty much [ __ ] you got a good
00:27:22
mindset e when was this the sort of
00:27:24
realization was this in recovery in
00:27:26
recovery okay yeah definitely okay so so
00:27:30
so you get you drive the truck there so
00:27:33
so it's all um a real whirlwind what's
00:27:35
the time are you at hospital like 7 7
00:27:38
a.m. 6:00 a.m. Yeah. So, I got the Yeah,
00:27:40
it was about 6:00 a.m. Um, they don't
00:27:43
[ __ ] around, eh? No, they don't. They
00:27:45
don't. You're just straight in there. Is
00:27:47
it Is it the earlier you can get there,
00:27:48
the fresher the heart is and the better
00:27:50
it is or Yeah. It's all quality. Um, and
00:27:52
they always say potential. So, when they
00:27:54
phoned up, they said, "I think we've got
00:27:56
a potential heart." And the reason why
00:27:57
they say that is cuz you can get right
00:27:58
up to the table ready to go. Surgeon has
00:28:02
a look at you, has a look at the heart.
00:28:04
No, not happy. and boom, you're back
00:28:06
home and you're waiting again. Um, I
00:28:08
know three people that I met during this
00:28:11
whole journey, they got two missed calls
00:28:14
or like two calls that they and on the
00:28:17
third go they were had their transplant.
00:28:19
Um, well, I was just lucky to get the
00:28:22
first one.
00:28:23
Yeah, it was all quite a fast turnaround
00:28:25
for you, eh? Yeah, definitely. So, once
00:28:28
I had that surgery, I had to go to
00:28:30
physio to get fit enough to go again
00:28:33
under the knife. um cuz I couldn't just
00:28:35
go from one surgery to the other.
00:28:37
Probably wouldn't have handled it. So I
00:28:39
had the first surgery, went to physio
00:28:42
and then the cardiologist me up say,
00:28:45
"Hey, we're putting you back on the
00:28:47
active list. We think your body will be
00:28:48
able to handle it." And then I think
00:28:51
yeah 10 days 11 days later that's when I
00:28:54
got the phone call. So I was only on the
00:28:55
list for 11 days. Yeah. I mean this is
00:28:57
probably a little bit a little bit sort
00:28:58
of woo woo but I wonder if like your
00:28:59
positive thinking um had any sort of
00:29:01
impact on the positive outcomes. You
00:29:03
know what I mean? A lot there's a lot
00:29:05
obviously a lot of a lot of luck or you
00:29:07
know bad luck as as it may be involved
00:29:09
but um you know the way it happens so
00:29:11
quickly and so successfully for you I
00:29:12
wonder if yeah part of that reflects on
00:29:15
your energy and what you're putting out.
00:29:17
Yeah, I'd like to think so. Um but yeah.
00:29:21
So um yeah. So what are your last
00:29:23
thoughts before going under for surgery?
00:29:26
Yeah, that whole thing's a blur. Like I
00:29:28
remember going to I remember arriving to
00:29:30
hospital um and then one thing I
00:29:33
remember cuz I was cracking up is that
00:29:35
you have to they have to strip all your
00:29:36
body hair. So I've got my flat mate
00:29:39
eventually arrived to hospital um
00:29:41
shaving my arm nurse shaving I'm shaving
00:29:44
this leg shaving that leg. So I was
00:29:45
shaving my chair. It was like what the
00:29:46
heck? So I remember just sitting there
00:29:48
like this um just cracking up. Um but
00:29:51
your genitals and everything. Yeah.
00:29:52
everything everything's got to go. And I
00:29:54
was just like, which is quite invasive,
00:29:56
but um some people pay good money for
00:29:57
that. Yeah, exactly. Well, if that's
00:29:59
your last thought, it's not a bad way to
00:30:01
go. Yeah. And then after that, I just
00:30:03
remember sort of getting like um taken
00:30:07
to the surgery room. I remember looking
00:30:08
at it the table. Oh, like there were
00:30:10
everything and
00:30:12
I that blank really. It's just gone
00:30:15
blank after that. So, I don't know.
00:30:17
Yeah. what my thoughts were. And it's a
00:30:19
massive operation, like um 11 hours. How
00:30:23
many how many staff in the room? Oh, I
00:30:25
don't know, like a dozen or something.
00:30:26
At least a dozen. I remember when I
00:30:28
walked in, I I counted about 10. And
00:30:31
there was still more to come in. Cuz
00:30:32
they were like, "Oh, we're just waiting
00:30:33
on a few more people." I was looking
00:30:35
around. I was like, "A few more?" Like,
00:30:37
"You've got half the bloody hospital in
00:30:39
here now to me." But okay. But yeah. So,
00:30:42
but yeah. 11 hours just like Yeah. Were
00:30:45
you do you remember? Were you nervous or
00:30:47
you just like game on? No, it's like
00:30:49
game on. I just tried to think of that
00:30:51
output. I was like cuz at this time for
00:30:54
me it was long. Um when I look at the
00:30:56
timeline it's not but I was like we're
00:30:58
finally one going to get rid of these
00:31:00
bags. Like I was stoked. I was like
00:31:02
these bags going right off pretty much.
00:31:04
I was like they're going to go. So I was
00:31:07
stoked about that. And then I knew the
00:31:10
future after this was just going to go
00:31:13
up. So, was there was there was there
00:31:16
like a like a chance like a like a
00:31:18
chance that you could have died on the
00:31:19
operating 100%. Um, I don't know if
00:31:21
there is a percentage on it. Um, there's
00:31:23
obviously heaps of factors. Not all
00:31:25
surgeries take 11 hours too. Um, they
00:31:27
had troubles getting the the motors and
00:31:31
stuff out um of my heart, like getting
00:31:33
the old heart out with all the cords and
00:31:35
stuff that it had in it. Um, I know they
00:31:38
clipped my lungs on the way out, so they
00:31:40
had to repair that as well on that time.
00:31:43
So yeah, a lot of factors happened.
00:31:45
What's the What's Have you got a big
00:31:46
scar or is it like Yeah, straight down
00:31:48
the middle. Really? Can you show us?
00:31:49
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So starts up here
00:31:52
and just go straight down. Oh, bro. And
00:31:55
then all these two like scars are just
00:31:57
from drains and everything. But yeah,
00:31:59
straight down the middle. Jeez. So
00:32:01
they've got the Yeah, they've got the
00:32:03
rib cage right open, eh? Yeah. So, um,
00:32:05
funnily enough, I wanted to see how they
00:32:07
did it. So, yeah. Did someone have a
00:32:10
GoPro? Yeah. I want I asked to record it
00:32:13
actually and they said, "Oh, no. It's
00:32:14
too like it's too long. It'll just chew
00:32:16
up your phone." And I was, "Oh, okay."
00:32:18
But I really wanted to see how they cut
00:32:20
you open. So, in ICU once I was a little
00:32:23
bit better, I asked a nurse to show me.
00:32:25
And she's like, "Sure." And I was like,
00:32:26
"Yeah, I want to see it." So, she showed
00:32:28
me a video on YouTube of just them
00:32:30
cutting the skin. Then they use a bone
00:32:32
saw, cut the bone, and then they use
00:32:35
like this vice thing and they just boom,
00:32:38
crack you open. And I'm just sitting
00:32:40
there watching. Wow. That's what
00:32:42
happened. I said, "That's why I'm in so
00:32:44
much pain." Yeah. And And so after the
00:32:46
surgery, um you you you're in a coma for
00:32:50
like 5 days. Yeah. Correct. What do you
00:32:52
remember from that time? Anything at
00:32:53
all? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Um no
00:32:56
no trippy dreams or any No, not no
00:32:59
thoughts at all. Just like dead
00:33:00
basically. Yeah, pretty much. like um
00:33:02
yeah, one of the guys that was just
00:33:05
after me, he was 24 hours um out of
00:33:09
there after surgery and I asleep for
00:33:12
like 5 days or just knocked out and just
00:33:14
had no clue what was going on around me.
00:33:18
Yeah, I've got I've got a photo. Is Is
00:33:19
that Yeah. Is that that time? Yeah, that
00:33:22
is that time. So you you've got no rec
00:33:25
Did you know that photo was being taken
00:33:26
or No, no, nothing. Um that must have
00:33:30
been um So who was there? your parents
00:33:31
there or Yeah. Yeah. parents are there.
00:33:33
They'd come and
00:33:35
um like every day check on me and just
00:33:39
see. It's quite cool. There's a they
00:33:41
give you like a log almost like a
00:33:43
journal and the nurses fill it out. So
00:33:45
they'll be like day one I looked after
00:33:48
you from this period. This is what was
00:33:50
happening. This is what we did. And then
00:33:52
they documented the whole thing. Um
00:33:55
which is quite cool to look back on cuz
00:33:57
obviously I'm asleep during this time so
00:33:59
I have no idea. and they're putting
00:34:00
their notes in. Um but yeah, 5 days I
00:34:04
was like that's a long time. I can't
00:34:05
imagine how stressful that was for your
00:34:07
parents. Yeah. Yeah. Unreal. Um I don't
00:34:09
have kids um at the moment, but I could
00:34:13
just imagine that would be intense for
00:34:16
them during that, especially being out
00:34:17
for so long and just having to put
00:34:19
pretty much all your faith in the
00:34:21
doctors to s let them do their job
00:34:24
and let the body do what it does. So
00:34:26
it's like an an induced coma. So they
00:34:28
just they're keeping you deliberately
00:34:30
drugged just to just to wait to see if
00:34:32
the heart settles or Yeah. So I think
00:34:34
there were some complications and they
00:34:35
weren't ready to pull me out yet. Um
00:34:38
unsure what those were, what the
00:34:40
complications were um or why, but yeah,
00:34:44
they were just waiting for their time to
00:34:46
wake me up pretty
00:34:48
much. God, your parents must have spent
00:34:50
a fortune at muffin break. Yeah. Yeah,
00:34:53
exactly. Through the roof. Wow. And then
00:34:57
um unbelievable. And so 5 days after a
00:35:00
coma. Any recollections of that time? Uh
00:35:04
no. The sort of I sort of when I first
00:35:07
sort of woke up, there's patches that I
00:35:11
remember of waking up and seeing like
00:35:13
this nurse look after me and like seeing
00:35:16
the room and the room's like warping too
00:35:19
cuz obviously drugged up or whatever.
00:35:22
Yeah. Everything. Um, so I remember that
00:35:24
like the roof moving and all this sort
00:35:26
of stuff. Like I remember random people
00:35:29
coming in to obviously maybe check on
00:35:32
their um person that they were seeing. I
00:35:35
remember that coming through. I don't
00:35:36
really remember the room shape or
00:35:38
anything. Just remember sort of seeing
00:35:39
over there someone's gone to see their
00:35:41
mate. I just remember yeah like some
00:35:44
machines. I don't even know if they were
00:35:46
actually there if I was hallucinating
00:35:47
them or not but I was like this is
00:35:49
crazy. Then I in and out of that sort of
00:35:51
a space, boom, drift back off and then
00:35:54
wake up and then just hear noises. I
00:35:56
remember like noises. I remember hearing
00:35:58
stuff and it's just mainly like mainly
00:36:00
machines beeps and noises and yeah, it
00:36:03
was it was weird. It was weird. When did
00:36:06
you start to come out of that haze?
00:36:11
Um yeah, probably when did I come out of
00:36:14
that? Once they took the breathing tube
00:36:18
out. Um, that's when I remember being
00:36:21
more coherent. I remember that thing was
00:36:23
giving me ball legs. That was I was It
00:36:26
was pissing me right off. That thing
00:36:28
just shoved down my throat like Is that
00:36:31
one of the ventilator things? Yeah.
00:36:32
Yeah. It's like this big breathing tube.
00:36:35
Um, and they pulled it out too early and
00:36:38
then my lung collapsed. So then I
00:36:41
remember being on a sleep mask. I
00:36:44
remember like like fully trying to
00:36:46
breathe. Like it was just weird. Like I
00:36:47
remember like kicking my whole body just
00:36:49
to try and get a breath in and then
00:36:51
breathing out. Um I know that was a
00:36:53
scary time for mom. I remember mom
00:36:55
watching cuz obviously I'm trying to I'm
00:36:57
struggling to breathe here. This big
00:36:59
mass is pumping oxygen in and they had
00:37:01
to put me back under and put the
00:37:03
breathing tube back in. And at that
00:37:05
point I was not keen. I remember looking
00:37:06
at the doctor, no just not a chance
00:37:09
you're putting that thing back down my
00:37:10
throat. And he's like look we have to.
00:37:13
And I was like, I was not keen at all.
00:37:18
But yeah, that went back down and then
00:37:21
then the second time it came back up,
00:37:23
then I was good to go. But yeah, that I
00:37:25
remember that that thing causing me
00:37:27
pain.
00:37:29
Yeah. And and what about the rec
00:37:30
recovery? Long and slow. Yeah. How long
00:37:33
were you in hospital for? Um so I had
00:37:37
the surgery October 4th.
00:37:41
I then went to like the rehab spot in
00:37:44
Hearty Towers um which is just in Green
00:37:47
Lane. It's like a transitions period. So
00:37:49
all transplants go there once they come
00:37:52
out of hospital to then transition back
00:37:54
into life. Um so you start cooking,
00:37:56
start cleaning, see what your body's
00:37:57
like. You're right by the nurses. So if
00:37:59
anything does happen, you're straight
00:38:00
back there. So I was there
00:38:03
for four weeks. I think I was in
00:38:05
hospital after surgery for three. They
00:38:09
had a week in ICU, a week in the next
00:38:13
ward, and then a week in the transition
00:38:15
ward sort of thing, and then back to
00:38:16
Hearty Towers. I remember three weeks,
00:38:19
and I remember that recovery, like
00:38:21
taking my first steps or getting sit up
00:38:23
for the first time, sit up out of the
00:38:25
bed, and all I they told me to do was
00:38:27
move my feet like this. And I remember
00:38:29
just I've never had to think about
00:38:31
moving my feet. I was like, "Okay, left,
00:38:34
right, left, right." And just trying to
00:38:36
do that. And that was crazy. And then
00:38:38
when they sat me up and we got up out of
00:38:41
bed and went for my like pretty much my
00:38:43
first walk. I remember that. And I
00:38:46
remember like normally you just walk
00:38:47
like that. My legs were coming in like
00:38:49
this. So I was just like I was like what
00:38:52
the heck is going on here? And like in
00:38:54
my mind I'm like walk like this and then
00:38:56
the legs are just no just coming across
00:38:58
and I just no muscle really. Everything
00:39:01
was just gone. So I just had no
00:39:04
strength. was leaning on this thing
00:39:05
trying to like shuffle my feet trying to
00:39:08
tell my like feet walk like this. But
00:39:11
yeah, that was that was definitely weird
00:39:14
just from being inactive for so long.
00:39:16
Yeah. Yeah. So I went into hospital 86
00:39:18
kgs and then after surgery I was
00:39:23
64. So that's 22 kg. I've never been a
00:39:26
big dude too overweight. So it was just
00:39:28
manial muscle mass and just bodies just
00:39:32
gone. Just had nothing. and and your
00:39:34
mental health around that time. Yeah,
00:39:36
obviously like like you you know you're
00:39:38
weak and it's frustrating and it's hard
00:39:40
but but you do have a new heart so
00:39:42
things are looking good. Yeah, things
00:39:43
are looking good. Um when I did that
00:39:46
first walk I was like hallelujah like we
00:39:49
can walk again. We're up and that I
00:39:52
remember that after that first walk
00:39:54
that's when things sort of really
00:39:56
started to take off in recovery. I think
00:39:57
the body just started to move again.
00:39:59
muscles were starting to be active and
00:40:01
then from there it just kept going and
00:40:03
was more walks, more walks. I was just
00:40:05
demanding the nurses to take me on a
00:40:07
walk like I was a dog almost like take
00:40:09
me on a walk, let's go cuz I you had to
00:40:12
like plug in and all these machines and
00:40:14
everything before you could go. You
00:40:15
couldn't just get up and go. Um but I
00:40:17
just knew if I keep moving like the
00:40:19
body's just going to naturally start to
00:40:21
kick into gear and start to heal. Yeah,
00:40:23
I saw a photo of you online. There's and
00:40:25
you you've got like a like a a stroller
00:40:27
thing and there's a lot of
00:40:28
paraphernalia. There's a there's a lot
00:40:29
going on with it. So, the logistics of
00:40:32
um moving in those early days was quite
00:40:33
intense. Yeah. Yeah. And there's about
00:40:35
three nurses that would have to come
00:40:37
with me. One would have to watch the
00:40:38
monitor, watch my heart rate, other one
00:40:39
would have to watch the oxygen and all
00:40:41
this stuff. Um make sure all my cords
00:40:44
are still stay attached to me.
00:40:45
Everything was crazy when I look back on
00:40:47
it just to think like just going for a
00:40:49
walk, you're pretty much taking like a
00:40:51
whole factory with you almost. It's
00:40:53
crazy. And then when when are you
00:40:55
allowed to go home?
00:40:57
Um, pretty much once I guess I don't
00:41:01
know what the the criteria was for me to
00:41:04
get into the next wards, but it was just
00:41:06
pretty much strength and get better. It
00:41:08
was all around your strength and fitness
00:41:10
about can you actually do all the stuff
00:41:14
that you need to do at home or forward
00:41:16
cuz if they release you early then
00:41:18
you're just going to come straight back
00:41:19
if they don't know that you're
00:41:20
physically fit and able to do
00:41:22
everything. So I think that's what that
00:41:24
transition period's all about. Can you
00:41:25
make your bed? Can you cook? Can you
00:41:28
shower yourself? Can you do all those
00:41:31
once? And then the physio is going to
00:41:33
physio every day with them. Starting
00:41:35
with like just the air squat. I remember
00:41:36
having 1 kg dumbbells and just couldn't
00:41:39
push them up. And before that, before
00:41:42
that time, I remember looking at 1 kg
00:41:44
dumbbells in the gym going, "What's the
00:41:45
point of having these?" Like, "Why do we
00:41:46
have these here? They're just bloody
00:41:48
baby weights." And then 8 months later,
00:41:50
I'm sitting there like this trying to
00:41:52
push them. I remember looking back on it
00:41:54
going, "Ah, that's why we have them."
00:41:56
Yeah. Yeah. Shout out to all the other
00:41:58
people like myself who uh do their curls
00:42:00
with 1 kilo dumbbells. No shame. Any
00:42:03
movement is better than no movement.
00:42:04
Yeah. Actual actual. Wow. Wow. That's
00:42:07
amazing.
00:42:09
Yeah. Yeah. I remember reading the um
00:42:11
Yeah. Lance Armstrong, the cyclist.
00:42:13
Yeah. Yeah. I remember reading his
00:42:14
books. He had testicular cancer and was
00:42:16
given like a 2% chance of survival. And
00:42:17
then um uh in in his book he talks about
00:42:20
like his first bike ride being back on
00:42:22
recovery and he was going up a slight
00:42:23
incline and he was off the saddle
00:42:25
pedaling hard then some old lady like
00:42:27
went steaming past him on her bike. I
00:42:30
guess it's the same sort of thing. E
00:42:31
like it's just almost like control out
00:42:33
out delete. You're back to back to
00:42:34
ground zero. Yeah. Yeah. And um I've
00:42:36
heard it heaps in the fitness industry
00:42:38
like oh I've had a week off. I got to
00:42:40
start at square one. And like in my head
00:42:43
I'm like yeah you have no idea what
00:42:45
square one is.
00:42:46
You've been there. Yeah. Had to go legit
00:42:48
to square one, learning how to walk, how
00:42:51
to lift the weight, how to do a air
00:42:53
squat, could barely squat, all this sort
00:42:55
of stuff. So, it was proper Yeah. square
00:42:57
one for myself. Um and and did it feel
00:43:02
this is probably a weird question, but
00:43:04
like having another person's heart in
00:43:06
your chest, did it feel any different?
00:43:07
Yeah. I've been asked that um a bit
00:43:10
around some people, the nurses are
00:43:12
telling me some people like adopt habits
00:43:14
from that person. Hey. Yeah, spooky sort
00:43:16
of stuff. Um, and they said the patients
00:43:19
don't realize it. It's their friend
00:43:21
group that realizes it. Um, and they
00:43:22
start to go, "Oh, like he or she didn't
00:43:25
wasn't doing that before."
00:43:27
Um, I haven't had anything like that
00:43:29
personally. Um, I don't actually notice
00:43:32
really the feeling of someone else's
00:43:35
heart cuz they take all the nerves
00:43:38
around so you don't actually feel it
00:43:40
anyway cuz you can't reattach nerves.
00:43:42
So, all the nerves are gone anyway. Um,
00:43:45
so when you have like when you go for a
00:43:46
workout or a run or whatever and you can
00:43:48
feel your heart beating, I can't
00:43:50
actually feel that um because all the
00:43:51
nerves are gone. So I just know the
00:43:53
symptoms are more just like out of
00:43:55
breath sort of stuff. But yeah, I
00:43:56
haven't really felt that mentally. I
00:43:59
know that there's someone physically
00:44:01
like there's nothing in that sort of
00:44:03
realm that's happened. And what are the
00:44:05
chances of rejection? Is that something
00:44:07
that
00:44:08
they if you know if you make it through
00:44:10
the danger period like the first 30
00:44:11
days, 50 days or whatever then? Yeah.
00:44:13
Two years. Two years. First two years.
00:44:15
Um is you're out of the Yeah. Yes. I'm
00:44:18
out of that danger um
00:44:20
zone through that period. Um I did have
00:44:23
some rejection. Um they call it like a
00:44:26
1R, 2R, 3R. Um 1R is like you'll
00:44:29
definitely know about it. 2 R, 3 R.
00:44:32
Three R is real mild rejection. 2 R sort
00:44:34
of medium. I had a couple three Rs and
00:44:38
two yeah two Rs as well. Still didn't
00:44:41
know the symptoms. Didn't feel anything.
00:44:42
It was just when I was going for my
00:44:43
regular testing they were picking it up
00:44:45
with reg regular biopsies. Um and now
00:44:48
because of that I'm still on this drug
00:44:50
called prednazone. Normally you'll phase
00:44:53
off it but I'm still on it just because
00:44:54
of the early stages of rejection that I
00:44:56
had.
00:44:57
Um but again it I didn't feel any
00:45:01
rejection or whatever. was just the what
00:45:03
they were picking up in the tissue
00:45:05
samples when they were taking them.
00:45:06
Yeah. What sort of pills are you on? And
00:45:08
are you on them for life? Yeah, I'm on
00:45:09
the pills for life. So, I've got
00:45:11
tacimus, microfenolate, prednazone,
00:45:14
aspirin,
00:45:15
uh what else is there?
00:45:17
Privastatin pretty much mainly
00:45:19
rejection, anti-rejection,
00:45:21
um bit of blood pressure and antibiotic
00:45:24
pretty much is pretty much what it all
00:45:27
the big cocktail is. So, how many a day?
00:45:30
Um, so there's about 5 in the morning, 3
00:45:33
at night. Oh, okay. Oh, that's not as as
00:45:36
bad as what I thought. I imagine it was
00:45:38
like a massive massive It was when I
00:45:40
first came out of hospital. So, I was on
00:45:42
about 16 in the morning, about 8 at
00:45:45
night. And I remember I remember my
00:45:48
mates jokingly saying, "We're going to
00:45:49
buy you one of those like old man Monday
00:45:51
to Sunday." Sunday, Monday,
00:45:53
Tuesday special. So, I actually had one,
00:45:56
but I had too many drugs to put in them.
00:45:58
They didn't even fit. So, so far I can't
00:46:00
even use this. Yeah. Oh god, that's
00:46:03
funny. Um, and you must have bounced
00:46:05
back pretty quickly because um yeah,
00:46:07
this is this is um where the where the
00:46:10
the story sort of pivots and
00:46:13
um well like a a it's a beautiful way
00:46:16
but it's a heartbreaking way as well. So
00:46:18
7 months after your heart transplant,
00:46:19
you're doing a half marathon. Yeah.
00:46:22
Yeah. Like did the um did you have to
00:46:24
get clearance from cardiologists and
00:46:26
things like that? Um I think I I should
00:46:28
have but I didn't. Um cuz would they
00:46:32
because you you know on the one hand you
00:46:34
think um you know working the heart and
00:46:36
using it is is a good thing to do but on
00:46:38
the other hand I suppose yeah there
00:46:39
there becomes a point where it's
00:46:40
diminishing returns in terms of
00:46:42
strenuous exercise. Yeah I think so you
00:46:44
went rogue. Yeah a little bit. Um I had
00:46:47
a tendency to do that with my doctors
00:46:49
around health and fitness. Um there's no
00:46:52
way if if you [ __ ] this up there's no
00:46:53
way they're giving you another Yeah.
00:46:55
Exactly.
00:46:56
Um, so I was just like I couldn't go
00:46:59
back to CrossFit. They said it's too
00:47:00
intense. Heart rate's going to shoot up.
00:47:02
Um, so I was like, "What else is out
00:47:05
there? Like there's got to be something
00:47:06
out there." One of my mates is from
00:47:07
Hawks Bay. So he thought up the idea and
00:47:11
he's like, "Do you want to have a
00:47:12
crack?" And I was like, like it's pretty
00:47:15
early, right? But during the sort of
00:47:18
small little training that I did, it was
00:47:21
all just about moving as slow and the
00:47:23
heart rate not really climbing at all.
00:47:26
Um, so I knew during my pre-runs I never
00:47:30
really crept up to a high heart rate. So
00:47:32
I was like, "Okay, this will be fine."
00:47:34
In my uneducated view, I was like, "I'll
00:47:36
be fine." Like just to keep it nice and
00:47:39
steady and just slow. The goal was never
00:47:41
to PB obviously and just sprint away.
00:47:45
Low and slow, just get it done. Yeah,
00:47:46
just get it done. If I needed to walk,
00:47:48
I'll walk. It was just about finishing
00:47:50
really. Um and the boys that we went
00:47:52
down with, they had their own um goals
00:47:54
that they did um and achieved. So yeah,
00:47:57
we all crushed it that day in our own
00:47:58
way. Um yeah, I remember I think my pace
00:48:01
was like eight average 8 minute Ks. So I
00:48:05
was real slow. Um and it's funny you
00:48:07
brought up that um Armstrong because I
00:48:09
remember running and I remember this old
00:48:12
man walking past me and I was like,
00:48:15
"You're kidding." And I was like, I'm
00:48:18
slowly running and he's just power
00:48:20
walking right past me. This is about the
00:48:22
16k mark and I was like, "Wow, this is a
00:48:26
bit of humble pie." But still, yeah, you
00:48:27
must have been immensely proud though
00:48:28
just getting it done. Yeah. Yeah. I was
00:48:30
stoked. I didn't honest. I was never
00:48:32
really a strong runner before this. Um,
00:48:34
so I was that was the longest I've ever
00:48:36
run. And to do it 7 months after
00:48:38
transplant, I was Yeah. I was like,
00:48:41
"Okay, it was like a we're back sort of
00:48:44
moment." I was like, "Okay, yeah, we're
00:48:46
good to go now. We're back. What can we
00:48:48
achieve next?" And then I felt Yeah. I
00:48:51
felt me at that point. I was I'm good.
00:48:54
That it's an alarmingly quick
00:48:55
turnaround, eh? Yeah. From a heart
00:48:57
transplant to doing taking part in a
00:48:58
half marathon 7 months later. It's
00:49:00
crazy. Yeah. Yeah. I look back on it now
00:49:02
going, "What the heck?" Well, I pump the
00:49:05
brakes, mate. Slow down. Yeah. And I did
00:49:08
tell my cardiologist and they were like,
00:49:10
"Okay, dial back." And I was like, "Oh,
00:49:12
yep." Yeah. But the um you know the the
00:49:15
amazing um serendipitous thing about
00:49:17
this is um Yes. So you end up getting
00:49:20
some media coverage about doing the half
00:49:21
marathon. Yeah. So stuff wrote a piece
00:49:24
or Yeah. Yeah. So I remember um when I
00:49:26
was filling in the application form to
00:49:28
do it um or registrating um I was like I
00:49:32
better put it down like better put down
00:49:33
that I've had a transplant in case
00:49:35
something happens then the team are
00:49:37
aware of it. So I put it down in the
00:49:40
form under the medical conditions and
00:49:42
then that's when um the who are they the
00:49:47
owners that run the Hawks Bay reached
00:49:49
out wanting to do an article and then
00:49:51
New Zealand Herald also reached out
00:49:53
wanting to do an article and at that
00:49:55
time it was I think it was stuff I've
00:49:57
never really sort of told my story never
00:49:59
really thought much of it just thought
00:50:01
like I'm on this journey I want to get
00:50:03
better I want to run um and achieve this
00:50:05
goal and that was sort of the start
00:50:07
where I was like okay Let's do it. Like
00:50:09
why not? Um why not get it out there?
00:50:12
How are you were you nervous about that?
00:50:13
Yeah, I was a little bit and I didn't
00:50:15
know because it was sort of the first
00:50:16
time I've told like all my mates the
00:50:18
story and stuff but you know that's just
00:50:20
easy just sitting in a lounge. Um and
00:50:23
then telling the media I was like okay
00:50:25
is this going to be something that they
00:50:27
want to know or like how was it? And it
00:50:29
was just yeah it was different but it
00:50:30
was good to get off my chest sort of
00:50:32
tell more people. Um, the more I told
00:50:35
it, the more I was, I guess, more proud
00:50:36
of what I've done. Um, and not
00:50:40
being too shy about being proud. Like, I
00:50:43
suppose we're always sort of underelling
00:50:45
ourselves. And then the more I told that
00:50:47
story, I was like, you know, I'm pretty
00:50:49
stoked that I could do that, but I was
00:50:50
chuffed. Yeah. Yeah. You should be proud
00:50:53
of it. It It is a male thing. Is is it
00:50:56
also like a like a multiculture thing
00:50:57
that you're not allowed to
00:50:59
like be like braggy or Yeah, I'd say
00:51:02
yeah, I would say like you're not
00:51:04
allowed to, but yeah, definitely like
00:51:05
we're just so Yeah. quiet and just not
00:51:10
braggy. I've got some um Pacifica mates
00:51:12
and they're always like, "Humble
00:51:13
yourself. Humble yourself." Yeah. But
00:51:16
some sometimes you got to celebrate
00:51:17
these these successes like this is a
00:51:19
massive win. Yeah, it was a massive win
00:51:21
and I was stoked. Um but yeah, it was
00:51:25
good to get it off my chest and just
00:51:26
celebrate it and actually yeah, realize
00:51:28
that the body can achieve that. Yeah.
00:51:30
And had you not um been open to doing
00:51:33
this media, chances are you would have
00:51:35
never come across um Nikki and Spencer.
00:51:39
Yeah, correct. Josh's parents. So So um
00:51:42
yeah, Josh Josh Heath. Actually, I've
00:51:44
got a photo of Josh here. What can you
00:51:46
Yeah. What can you tell us about Josh? A
00:51:49
man a man you never met. Young man you
00:51:50
never met. Yeah. young man that I uh
00:51:52
never met. Um I when I met um his mom
00:51:57
and dad that they told me that he was
00:51:59
starting to get into his health and
00:52:01
fitness and get into the gym and wanted
00:52:02
to be bigger and his um mom and dad sort
00:52:05
of joked, well now he is a little bit
00:52:07
bigger cuz I was a little bit bigger
00:52:09
than Josh at the time. So you can't come
00:52:10
down. You're still lifting 1k dumbbells.
00:52:12
Yeah, I know. He sort of lowkey got his
00:52:15
wish of getting bigger um in a weird
00:52:17
funny way.
00:52:19
Um but yeah um it's quite like that
00:52:23
moment that she reached out was all
00:52:25
because of that that herald that
00:52:28
article. Um the parents were just
00:52:30
reading it the dad read it um just read
00:52:33
right through it and then I think the
00:52:34
mom read it and sort of was like hang on
00:52:38
cuz they got told sort of similar what I
00:52:39
got told a young man similar of age Josh
00:52:42
was donated to and that's all they had
00:52:44
to go off. Um, and then they read the
00:52:46
article about the half marathon, seen
00:52:48
the date. Josh passed away October 3rd.
00:52:51
I got the transplant on October 4th.
00:52:53
Young male, similar age. Um, so she
00:52:56
tracked me down on Facebook and then
00:52:59
sent me a message. Um, she said she
00:53:02
wrote it multiple times, hands are
00:53:04
shaking um, while she was writing it.
00:53:08
And then, yeah, sent it to me. This is
00:53:09
about 3 3ish p.m. I think. I remember
00:53:12
being at work just sitting there, get
00:53:14
this message request, boom, open it um
00:53:18
from Nikki pretty much saying the first
00:53:20
line from, "Hey, look, I don't know how
00:53:22
to say this, but I think you've got my
00:53:24
son's heart." And then just boom, like
00:53:26
the emotion that I had just sitting
00:53:28
there, I was like, "Whoa, crazy." Um
00:53:31
Yeah. How how do how do you react to
00:53:33
that? Yeah, it took me a while.
00:53:36
Um, I was stoked though that she did
00:53:39
reach out cuz this whole
00:53:41
time I've always wanted to thank like
00:53:44
obviously this family and like what I
00:53:46
went through was tough but in my eyes
00:53:49
what they've gone through and still
00:53:50
going through is way more tough than a
00:53:53
transplant. like to lose a son of only
00:53:56
19 years old like that is pain that will
00:53:59
be hard to heal from whereas the
00:54:02
transplant pain and all that pain that I
00:54:03
went from like I'm I guess healed and
00:54:07
like good to go. Um so yeah I was stoked
00:54:10
that I could finally that she did reach
00:54:12
out and that I could connect with that
00:54:14
family. Um, and it was just extra
00:54:16
motivation
00:54:17
to, I guess, appreciate the gift that
00:54:20
I've got and do everything for Josh and
00:54:23
learn about him, about what he liked in
00:54:25
his life and what he was doing. He
00:54:27
seemed like he had a good bunch of mates
00:54:30
um and everything. Yeah. Yeah. From from
00:54:33
what you've learned about him in
00:54:34
retrospect, like Yeah. Who was Josh? Uh,
00:54:36
who's Josh Heath? Yeah. He was a young
00:54:38
fellow in in Roa. Um, was into his
00:54:41
gyming. Um, was apprentice for his old
00:54:43
man. Um, so we just started his
00:54:45
apprentichip. Um, it's funny is his mom
00:54:47
asked me if I like drinking long whites
00:54:49
cuz that's what Josh um was into down
00:54:53
the young. What are the chances? Yeah,
00:54:56
long whites and I do like a long white
00:54:58
actually.
00:54:59
So Josh Josh um
00:55:02
did you like long whites beforehand or
00:55:04
Yeah, I did actually though. So it sort
00:55:05
of wasn't just him but um that would be
00:55:08
weird. Suddenly you became like a Yeah,
00:55:09
exactly. It could have been one of those
00:55:11
moments.
00:55:12
Um, but yeah, and that's yeah, it's
00:55:15
pretty much what I learned about Josh.
00:55:17
Cool. Like seemed like he had a good
00:55:19
life. Um, so he was a shame that I got
00:55:22
taken away from him so young. Um, I
00:55:25
guess that was a moment like unreal
00:55:28
family, like cool ass family. Um, so
00:55:30
yeah, just honestly just extra
00:55:32
motivation just to keep going. Yeah,
00:55:34
from from what I can gather, he was a
00:55:36
passenger in a car with a mate who was
00:55:37
um had been uh drinking and smoking some
00:55:40
weed and um yeah, it was a a car
00:55:43
accident and they um discussed earlier
00:55:46
about him being like a donor on his
00:55:47
driver's license. Yeah. Um but even even
00:55:50
if you tick the donor box um if you're
00:55:53
on life support, you the family can
00:55:54
override it at the last minute. Yeah.
00:55:56
Correct. So New
00:55:58
Zealand um still even if we do take it
00:56:01
again as you said the family can just go
00:56:03
nah um and that still happens in New
00:56:05
Zealand. I don't think all countries are
00:56:07
the same but yeah and like the list I
00:56:10
remember the mom telling me the list
00:56:11
that they give you is
00:56:14
like surprising of how much you can
00:56:16
actually donate from your body. Like
00:56:19
there was stuff like eyes and everything
00:56:21
and like Nikki like you can't take my
00:56:23
son's eyes like you ain't taking my
00:56:25
boy's eyes. Um, but yeah, you can have
00:56:28
this, this, and this, and this, which
00:56:30
is, I guess, a huge decision at that
00:56:32
time. Yeah, 100%. I couldn't Yeah. think
00:56:35
about what you'd go through during that
00:56:38
time of grief and then being told like,
00:56:40
hey, can this happen and what where your
00:56:43
mindset would be like, okay, if I give
00:56:45
this potential other people will be
00:56:47
saved and like having that, I guess,
00:56:49
yeah, that that mindset be able to save
00:56:52
others.
00:56:55
Yeah. Um, do you know much about his
00:56:58
other organs and where they ended up?
00:57:00
Um, I know his lungs went to this um, he
00:57:06
was in his I think he was in his mid30s,
00:57:09
late 30s. Um, cuz he was at the hospital
00:57:12
when I was there. Um, so we both went
00:57:15
through our surgeries at similar times
00:57:17
obviously for obvious reasons. Um and
00:57:19
then I remember the part of the liver I
00:57:21
think went to a young
00:57:24
um young young like newborn sort of in
00:57:28
Melbourne I think.
00:57:30
Um and yeah that's and I've met Troy um
00:57:34
who had the lungs. He unfortunately
00:57:36
passed
00:57:37
away about a year and a half ago and
00:57:40
that was his third lung transplant. um
00:57:42
he had I think it's just fibrosis or
00:57:45
whatever it was. But yeah, that's pretty
00:57:47
much what I know that he he still
00:57:49
managed to save his life for a little
00:57:51
bit and making a living and yeah,
00:57:53
obviously to donate to a young um baby
00:57:56
in Melbourne where that's just going to
00:57:58
And then me as well. Yeah. So, yeah,
00:58:01
probably save some lives. Yeah. What
00:58:03
about when you first met Nikki and
00:58:04
Spencer? Cuz you've caught up with um
00:58:06
Yeah. Josh's parents again. You've
00:58:07
caught up with them a couple of times,
00:58:08
right? Yeah. Yeah. Correct. How was
00:58:10
that? Like the first time you did you
00:58:11
drive to their house? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:58:13
So, I drove to Yeah, I was I was
00:58:16
nervous. Um they I knew they'd be
00:58:18
nervous, too. Um it's a big deal for
00:58:20
everyone involved. It's I mean, it's
00:58:22
it's wonderful, but it's also, you know,
00:58:24
fairly shitty circumstances. Yeah,
00:58:26
exactly. Um and I think both of us, we
00:58:29
didn't really know what to do like cuz
00:58:32
there's no there's no agenda, right? So
00:58:34
like it was sort of just going down
00:58:36
there and meeting um had a nice little
00:58:39
lunch um with them and I sort of just
00:58:42
tried
00:58:43
to I guess tell them about myself sort
00:58:46
of try and lead the conversation a
00:58:48
little bit but yeah we were both sort of
00:58:50
like what do we do? Um yeah it was quite
00:58:54
I guess not eerie but yeah emotion was
00:58:57
through the roof.
00:58:58
Um, for me, I was stoked when I remember
00:59:01
driving back just like rap that I've met
00:59:04
them. Um, a bit of closure. I hope it
00:59:07
was a bit of closure for them and myself
00:59:09
just Okay. And just pretty much got a
00:59:12
new family now as well. Um, but yeah,
00:59:14
they were that was a cool moment. Yeah,
00:59:17
it was good. I was glad I went down
00:59:18
there. That's cool. And then, um, you
00:59:21
took part in the Invictus Games. So, um,
00:59:23
for anyone that's not familiar with the
00:59:24
Invictus Games, who's allowed to compete
00:59:26
in them? Yeah. So, the Invictus game is
00:59:28
for past or present serving u military
00:59:31
members that have um had an injury um or
00:59:34
illness happen to them during serving.
00:59:36
Um and then they get a chance to compete
00:59:39
in these games that uh Prince Harry or
00:59:42
Duke Harry I think he is now um that
00:59:45
started up. So that's been going for 10
00:59:49
years now. Um and it's every two years
00:59:52
they compete. Um so yeah, militaries
00:59:55
from all over the world go over there
00:59:58
and compete in these sort of I guess
01:00:00
Olympic sort of style of events. Um
01:00:03
yeah, and the the illnesses and injuries
01:00:06
over there as like everything and
01:00:09
anything pretty much. Some crazy stories
01:00:11
that I ran into over there, but unreal
01:00:13
opportunity when it came up I was
01:00:16
definitely keen for. Yeah, there were um
01:00:18
yeah, 20 Kiwi athletes um that that took
01:00:21
part. Um yeah. Any sort of standout
01:00:23
stories or anything anything that
01:00:25
inspired you? Yeah, there was this um
01:00:28
other Kiwi athlete that was um in the
01:00:32
SAS during his serving. Um and he's so
01:00:36
casual and he just told me his story.
01:00:38
He's like, "Yeah, just got shot a couple
01:00:40
times, rolled down the hill, jumped in
01:00:43
my truck and then drove back to camp."
01:00:45
And I was like, "Wait, what?" Like you
01:00:49
you what? And he said, "Yeah, I was just
01:00:51
on a mission. Got shot well down the
01:00:53
hill. Smoke my whole spine. My whole
01:00:55
body's just pretty much full of metal
01:00:57
now." And yeah, I drove back. I was like
01:01:00
crazy. Like, and for someone like that
01:01:02
that's been through that and is still
01:01:05
out here trying to, I guess, better
01:01:07
himself and partake and still be active,
01:01:11
those are sort of the stories that sort
01:01:12
of stood out for me.
01:01:14
um was these people had these major sort
01:01:17
of uh I guess life-changing events and
01:01:20
still trying to be better. Like those
01:01:22
are the people that I want to surround
01:01:23
myself with. Just people trying to push
01:01:25
the limits whether you've got an abled
01:01:27
body or a not abled body either way as
01:01:29
long as you're still pushing your body's
01:01:31
limits and still using your body for
01:01:33
what it can be and it's happy days.
01:01:35
Yeah. Yeah. There's that saying um which
01:01:37
everyone knows like comparison is the
01:01:39
theft of joy. you actually if you
01:01:41
compare down um you don't have to look
01:01:43
far to see someone that's uh you know a
01:01:45
lot tougher than what you do. Right.
01:01:47
Yeah. Exactly. Um and he was telling me
01:01:50
that like what I've been through is
01:01:52
worse than him and I'm telling no you
01:01:54
win. You
01:01:55
win. They're built differently. They
01:01:58
just another day at the office for them.
01:02:00
Um do did you meet Prince Harry? Was he
01:02:02
there? Yeah, I did. Um that was quite
01:02:05
funny.
01:02:06
Um, one of the our New Zealand media
01:02:10
lady came up and was like, "Um, I need
01:02:13
you to do something." And I was like,
01:02:14
"Okay, what's that?" Cuz you're going to
01:02:17
go meet the the prince. I was like,
01:02:20
"Crazy." Okay. Um, so it was a part like
01:02:23
he was just going around the stadium and
01:02:26
I had to sit there pretending I was
01:02:27
drawing on something and then he'd stop
01:02:29
me and we'd have a quick yarn. Um, and
01:02:31
that was quite cool. I think the thing I
01:02:34
liked about him was when I was talking
01:02:36
to him, I could just tell he was
01:02:38
actively listening instead of just
01:02:39
listening because of the cameras were
01:02:41
all there. Like he actively wanted to
01:02:43
know about Josh and about my sort of
01:02:46
story. It was real quick. Um but yeah, I
01:02:50
think it was genuine what I got. The
01:02:51
feeling that I got from there was just
01:02:54
all eyes and just zoned in on my story.
01:02:57
So that was quite cool to meet him and
01:02:58
realize that he actually is just human
01:03:01
like the rest of us. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We
01:03:03
all are. Everyone shits. Yeah. Yeah.
01:03:06
Exactly. And you you ran um with a
01:03:09
t-shirt with um a picture of Josh on the
01:03:12
front. Yeah. Yeah. Where did the idea
01:03:14
come to do that? Uh so that came from
01:03:16
the Hawksway half marathon. Um one of my
01:03:18
mates is in the graphic design sort of
01:03:21
business.
01:03:23
Um, so I was like I wanted to uh yeah
01:03:27
run with a shirt with Josh on it, carry
01:03:30
him through the 21ks. So therefore he
01:03:32
ran it, I ran it. Um, his family ran it.
01:03:35
Um, and that's where this t-shirt came
01:03:37
from. And then from there it was
01:03:40
designed for me to just keep any sort of
01:03:42
achievement that I did would always be
01:03:43
with that t-shirt. Um, so I wanted to
01:03:45
take him overseas as well.
01:03:48
That's so cool. That um Yeah. Yeah.
01:03:51
Yeah, I can't like for Nikki and
01:03:53
Spencer, like Josh's parents, like I
01:03:55
can't imagine what that means to them,
01:03:57
you know? Yeah, I was I was quite did
01:03:59
off a few more t-shirt to take down to
01:04:01
them as well, so they could have some.
01:04:04
Um, but yeah, that was a cool moment
01:04:06
running with him. Yeah. Oh, that's
01:04:09
neat. What would you What would you like
01:04:11
people to know about organ donation? I
01:04:13
feel like it's something we we just
01:04:14
don't even know about, eh? It's not even
01:04:15
talked about. Yeah, I guess it's not
01:04:17
talked about. Um and especially in our
01:04:20
mai culture that we're bought up with
01:04:23
what you are given with you give back to
01:04:26
papuoki. Um, so you give back to the
01:04:28
earth and I guess during that time like
01:04:32
a lot of staunch sort of tell moldy
01:04:34
people that are in my life changed their
01:04:36
license to donate cuz they realize that
01:04:40
yeah they acknowledge that sort of side
01:04:42
but then the acknowledgement of like
01:04:45
like new sort of principles and like
01:04:48
that what the bodies can like what can
01:04:50
happen if you donate. We we didn't know
01:04:53
that way back in the day. And then now
01:04:56
like you can save so many lives and how
01:04:58
changing it is. So I guess I guess yeah
01:05:01
sort of think positive like in my eyes
01:05:03
like you don't need it anymore. Like
01:05:06
someone else will use it hopefully to
01:05:08
the best of their abilities to treasure
01:05:10
that gift. Um so yeah, I'd always
01:05:12
encourage people to be donors but
01:05:14
encourage is probably all I can do and
01:05:16
then if they want to make that decision,
01:05:17
they make that decision. M um were there
01:05:20
any like like um Faro or elders in
01:05:23
particular I guess that were like
01:05:24
against it thought you shouldn't be
01:05:25
getting the transplant or um no I was
01:05:28
quite lucky in that that I never got
01:05:29
into that um this uh yeah it could go
01:05:33
there I could see it going that way. Um
01:05:35
I was just lucky that I didn't didn't
01:05:38
have to have those conversations or go
01:05:39
down that way. Yeah. And what's your um
01:05:42
tattoo journey? Did you have these
01:05:43
before or have they come? Uh, so
01:05:45
everything before except for this one on
01:05:48
my um hand. Um, and the idea behind this
01:05:52
one, why I wanted it to sort of start
01:05:55
there is that I feel like I just got
01:05:57
like pushed over. Um, and then landed on
01:06:01
my hands and then ever since there it
01:06:04
sort of just absorbed new life and we've
01:06:07
coming back. We can just get back up.
01:06:09
Um, and that's sort of the story that we
01:06:11
told through that time awful piece done
01:06:13
by Yeah. my ink out. Um, Papakuro, he
01:06:15
was real good with that. And are you
01:06:17
done or is the story? Yeah. So, the
01:06:19
story will continue. So, that's pretty
01:06:21
much like the diagn uh diagnosis sort of
01:06:24
piece. Um, then we're going to do like a
01:06:26
small symbol here to acknowledge the
01:06:29
transplant and then the recovery piece
01:06:32
will go down this arm. Um, and that's
01:06:35
pretty much how the story will get told.
01:06:37
Even though you're not meant to get
01:06:38
tattoos post transplant, but you're not.
01:06:41
Oh my god. You're not supposed to run a
01:06:43
half marathon 7 months afterwards. So,
01:06:44
you might as well just continue breaking
01:06:46
rules. Yeah. So, I slightly bend the
01:06:48
rules when I can. Why? Why are you not
01:06:49
supposed to get in? Uh, it's all about
01:06:52
um
01:06:54
uh like infection and stuff because
01:06:55
you're on
01:06:56
imunosuppressants, the chances of
01:06:58
infection are a lot of higher. So, for
01:07:01
any reason if this goes bad, then your
01:07:04
body might not be able to process it as
01:07:06
efficiently as um your body would. So
01:07:09
they just give you their caution, but I
01:07:11
let my tattooist know about it. So
01:07:13
everything was cleaned and everything.
01:07:15
So yeah, in my eyes it was fine. But
01:07:18
yeah, there's still a chance. Oh, that's
01:07:21
awesome. What are some of the most
01:07:22
valuable uh life lessons you've learned
01:07:24
through this experience?
01:07:26
Um yeah, I'd say pretty much one of them
01:07:30
was just to say yes to everything. And
01:07:33
like the it's cliche, but yeah, life's
01:07:36
just too short. I realized that
01:07:38
firsthand, like I've thrown away that um
01:07:40
sentence before the heart, like life's
01:07:42
too short, might as well have a crack.
01:07:43
But now I understand that life is too
01:07:46
short and you like you should take
01:07:48
opportunities that pop up.
01:07:50
Um and that's pretty much what I've been
01:07:53
doing. That's pretty much the main
01:07:54
lesson. And then we were just having a
01:07:57
conversation the other day actually, one
01:07:58
of my mates around getting checked. Like
01:08:01
males don't get checked for anything. We
01:08:04
just crack on with life and just wait. I
01:08:06
mean, I was sick for ages and I still
01:08:08
wouldn't go and get checked. Um, so I
01:08:11
think that's another message that I sort
01:08:13
of want to try and get out there. It
01:08:14
doesn't matter if you're fit and
01:08:16
healthy. Just get checked like for
01:08:18
anything. Just you never know. Yeah,
01:08:21
those probably my the two sort of
01:08:22
lessons. That's a good one. Yeah, early
01:08:25
detection can just save you a world of
01:08:27
Oh, it's crazy. A world of pain, a world
01:08:30
of headaches, world of heart heartbreak.
01:08:32
Like it's just Yeah. Get regular
01:08:34
checkups. Just do it. get everything
01:08:36
tested. Yeah. Um Yeah. You're not being
01:08:39
you're not being a you know, you're
01:08:40
actually just being an idiot. You're not
01:08:42
being a hero by by not getting it done.
01:08:44
Yeah. We're too stubborn. Yeah. Um if
01:08:46
you could go back and give advice to
01:08:48
yourself before the transplant, what
01:08:49
would you say? What would I say?
01:08:52
[Music]
01:08:54
Um before the transplant. So, you
01:08:57
meaning like one I've already been
01:09:00
diagnosed and I've been told that I'm
01:09:03
going to get a transplant or I don't
01:09:05
know, man. It's your question. Interpret
01:09:07
it any way you want. I suppose if it was
01:09:09
really early on, you could be like, go
01:09:10
to the go to the [ __ ] doctor. It's
01:09:12
not normal that you can't walk up the
01:09:13
stairs. That would definitely be like my
01:09:16
advice. Like, you're not bulletproof.
01:09:18
Um, realize that.
01:09:20
Um, and then I guess my second advice
01:09:24
was probably just let people help you.
01:09:27
I'm a shocker for I still am now
01:09:30
actually. Um, of not letting people help
01:09:33
me. Like I'm trying to do everything on
01:09:34
my own. Um, and that was a little bit of
01:09:37
a wakeup call realizing that you do need
01:09:40
help. Like I've always been stubborn
01:09:42
enough to say, "No, no, I'll get I'll
01:09:43
get it done. I'll get it done." And then
01:09:45
I couldn't even go to the toilet by
01:09:47
myself. Like I couldn't do that. So I
01:09:48
was like, "Okay, just let people help."
01:09:51
Um, if they want to help, they will. If
01:09:53
they don't, they won't they won't offer
01:09:55
it. So that's another mind sort of thing
01:09:57
that I'd probably give myself advice is
01:10:00
just let people help. And how are you
01:10:01
now with um like tough conversations and
01:10:04
vulnerability like if you need help, are
01:10:05
you okay to ask for it or still? No.
01:10:07
Still work to do there. Still work to
01:10:09
do. Definitely still work to do. Uh but
01:10:11
I think I'm just aware of it. Like I'm
01:10:13
actually aware of it now that I am that
01:10:16
stubborn. Um I know it racks up my
01:10:19
flatmate a lot.
01:10:20
Um but yeah, it's definitely more aware
01:10:23
of it and I know it's a work on and I'll
01:10:25
get better at. What's has um this
01:10:27
experience taught you about resilience
01:10:29
and gratitude? Uh resilience. I think
01:10:32
what it's taught to me being in the
01:10:34
military like we get taught about
01:10:37
resilience and going through tough
01:10:38
times. Um, and knowing that the body and
01:10:41
the mind can do so much and then going
01:10:43
through this pretty much living it
01:10:46
realizing like if you're pretty much if
01:10:49
your mental resilience is poor like
01:10:52
you're going to go down like it's easy
01:10:55
just to sit there and as I say think
01:10:57
negatively but if we dwell on the
01:10:58
positive and have that mental resilience
01:11:01
your journey is actually a lot better. I
01:11:02
look back on my journey and I'm like my
01:11:04
journey wasn't actually that bad when
01:11:07
for a traumatic experience and that was
01:11:09
pretty much because of the mental
01:11:10
resilience to want to go want to get
01:11:12
better get back on that road. So it's
01:11:14
only going to benefit yourself. Um it's
01:11:16
easier to say than do
01:11:19
but yeah it's a challenge, right? Yeah.
01:11:22
How how do you stay um positive and
01:11:24
motivated on tough days? Uh for me it's
01:11:28
that I'm alive pretty much. I think back
01:11:30
to when like if I snooze my alarm for
01:11:33
training or whatever, I think like I
01:11:35
sometimes kick myself and I realize,
01:11:37
hang on, like you were begging to
01:11:40
train like a few years ago. Like you
01:11:42
were begging to be able to walk like and
01:11:45
now you can walk and you can go to the
01:11:48
gym. Go like get up and go. Um this is a
01:11:53
time in your life where you are able to
01:11:54
train. So get up and do it because three
01:11:57
years ago I couldn't and I was begging
01:11:59
to train. So I guess that's sort of the
01:12:02
moments that I think about that just
01:12:04
gives me extra motivation to get up and
01:12:06
go go do it. Yeah. And I suppose you you
01:12:08
only need to think about like this young
01:12:10
kid here who would give anything for the
01:12:13
opportunity to Yeah. Exactly. Go for one
01:12:16
more run or one more session. Yeah.
01:12:17
Yeah. Exactly. And I do catch myself
01:12:20
being lazy every now and then. Um that's
01:12:22
sort of the human side coming out of me
01:12:24
and then I dig myself out of that and be
01:12:26
like get up go like this man as you say
01:12:30
can't so we better go and do it and um
01:12:34
what's next for you like in the next two
01:12:36
years 5 years 10 years what goals or
01:12:38
dreams are you pursuing now? Yeah. So,
01:12:41
um once we just finished the
01:12:45
Queenstown Marathon a couple a few weeks
01:12:47
ago, um that was another goal. Once we
01:12:50
finished that half, the boys were keen
01:12:52
to tick off the full um and that was an
01:12:54
experience in itself and we talked with
01:12:56
that group um during this full that we
01:13:00
need to do this every year um and
01:13:03
celebrate that we can. It took for me to
01:13:05
have a heart transplant to get the
01:13:07
brothers together to be able to push the
01:13:08
body. Um, and now we do it every year.
01:13:11
Um, so we're looking at stuff next year.
01:13:14
We're looking at maybe doing a triathlon
01:13:16
like a group either Iron Moldi or Iron
01:13:17
Man. Um, and we're looking at you got to
01:13:20
train for everything and on the day pull
01:13:22
out your ED swim. Oh, the discipline.
01:13:25
Yeah, the discipline. Oh, wow. So, we
01:13:27
might um Oh, like a lucky dip draw. Like
01:13:29
a lucky dip. So, we'll all turn up and
01:13:31
you pull do a team one or something. You
01:13:33
pull out and then way we go just to sort
01:13:37
of keep things interesting. Um but yeah,
01:13:40
definitely that's probably the next one.
01:13:42
Um something like that. Um I probably
01:13:46
like the marathon broke me like that one
01:13:48
was tough. Um how long did it take you?
01:13:51
5 hours and 40 minutes. So I was there
01:13:53
slogging away, walking, running,
01:13:55
hobbling. Um so that was another
01:13:58
probably mental resilience piece. I
01:14:00
realized I was in a dark place,
01:14:02
different dark place, but yeah, hurt
01:14:04
locker place. And that um had to rely on
01:14:07
Josh a lot to get me through that one
01:14:08
actually. Um so yeah, I sort of want to
01:14:12
continue to push that body and do stuff
01:14:14
like that that brings me back to that
01:14:16
space and keep pushing forward. Well,
01:14:19
you're inspirational, mate. It's been
01:14:21
really cool sitting down with you today.
01:14:22
Yeah, it's been cool just to tell the
01:14:24
story, I guess. Yeah, it's a lot to
01:14:25
reflect on. Yeah, it is. I get I get the
01:14:28
feeling you're such a um such a growth
01:14:30
mindset person that you you know you you
01:14:32
don't spend a lot of time sitting and
01:14:34
reflecting. You just constantly looking
01:14:36
for what's next. Yeah, correct. Um that
01:14:39
has been good about this podcast is just
01:14:41
having that time to sit and I guess you
01:14:44
see you reflect reflect back on those
01:14:47
like some of the questions you asked me
01:14:49
like um and taking me back like actually
01:14:51
having to think about those feelings
01:14:54
which was quite cool. I don't, as you
01:14:56
say, I don't do that often and I should.
01:14:59
Well, it's cool. Yeah, you're I mean,
01:15:00
you're an impressive young New Zealander
01:15:02
and um I'm glad the outcome for you has
01:15:04
been been positive and I can't wait to
01:15:05
see what you do next. Um it seems like
01:15:07
one of the big work on is um you got a
01:15:09
great group of mates. I mean, you do
01:15:11
some cool [ __ ] Just need to work on
01:15:12
that conversation piece a little bit.
01:15:14
Yeah, 100%. Definitely, mate. It's so
01:15:16
hard though. As long as you're aware of
01:15:17
it, though, and it's a work in progress.
01:15:19
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Onwards and upwards.
01:15:22
Hey, um and upwards. Yeah. This has been
01:15:24
amazing, mate. Jack Church,
01:15:26
inspirational New Zealander. Thanks so
01:15:27
much, mate, for coming on the podcast.
01:15:28
Thank you very much for having me. It's
01:15:30
been awesome. Loved it.