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Welcome to the Dom Harvey podcast
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sponsored by Generate. Great
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conversations with fascinating [music]
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people. On this episode, I talk to Miles
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Harurl, the CEO of Fonta, New Zealand's
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largest company. This [music] is his
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first ever podcast. Are you Are you a a
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bougie guy? Are you Lewis Road? Are you
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more primo?
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>> Uh I' I've got to go primo. Of course.
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What do you What do you expect?
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>> In this conversation, Miles opens up
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like never before. He shares his
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remarkable journey from a messy
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childhood in Christ Church with donated
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clothes and government benefits through
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to not only getting one of the most
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important jobs in New Zealand, but
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having a huge impact in the role.
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>> Oh god, you're here. Come on. This is
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the center of performance. Whenever
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there's a top performance in New
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Zealand, it all comes from here. That's
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Lisa Carrington. She's been doing that
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for days. That's the boys who got the
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Holland one in Topore.
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He did it again. Hey Finn, how's the
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performance going?
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>> Top tier.
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>> Nice. This is our generate room. In
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here, you'll find our top performers
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helping Kiwis [music] maximize their
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Kiwi Saver investments. Get in here,
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Finn.
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>> Maximize. Generate.
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>> Putting performance first.
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>> My Harl, CEO of Fonta. Welcome to my
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podcast.
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>> Thanks for having me, Dom.
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>> Mate, this is great. I've done a lot of
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research. Um, this is your your first
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podcast.
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>> Yeah, I I I think at length podcast.
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I've done a few conversations that have
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ended up on a podcast of sorts, but
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yeah, first one of length. So yeah,
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looking forward to it.
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>> Yeah, the only other things I found on
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the podcast apps that you've done are um
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>> the country with Jamie Mai and um some
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chats with um the Hosk Mike Hosking.
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>> How are what's that like? A morning
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where you wake up and you know you've
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got a husking interview and it's not
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something particularly pleasant.
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>> Yeah. Um [laughter] well well he's he's
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got a reputation of course that precedes
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him. So and and you know generally the
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night before that you're going on early
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early in the morning. So you get your
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head in the right space. But the end of
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the day, whether it's good good or bad
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news, you got to lean into it. So, no, I
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just just run with it, you know.
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>> Uh, cheers.
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>> Yeah. Cheers. Cheers to that. Hey, great
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prop, too, by the way. Nice.
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>> Do you ever drink milk? How how often do
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you
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>> um a glass of milk? I'll be honest and
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say not that often uh these days. Uh
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maybe a flavored milk. Um but not not
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milk like that, but certainly uh in a
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coffee and cereal, but but not not sort
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of milk like that.
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>> Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking when I poured
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these earlier, like I haven't I haven't
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probably done this since uh primary
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school age.
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>> I know. Well, of course we had milk in
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schools uh until quite recently. Um and
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so I used to go and do a few of those
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from from time to time, one or two a
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year. And so that would be an
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opportunity to sort of taste the milk
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with the kids at the time, but no, not
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now very often.
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>> And flavored milk. Are you are you a a
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bougie guy? Are you Lewis Road? Are you
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more primo?
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>> Uh I've got to go primo, of of
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[laughter] course. What do you What do
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you expect? But um uh you know I'm just
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just a standard banana milk if if if it
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comes up that way. But no nothing too
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serious.
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>> Oh, so am I. There you go.
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>> Banana milk. Yeah. Banana milk
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controversial for a lot of people. It
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>> it is. Maybe it's a generational thing
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though. Probably it's an age thing for
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you and I maybe we're in the same the
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same demographic I suspect. So yeah,
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that's where it comes from.
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>> Yeah. I'm two years older
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[clears throat] than you, which makes me
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feel very adequate adequate. I'm
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thinking what have I Yeah. You've been
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the CEO of the world's biggest dairy
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exporter for the last seven years. What
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have I done with my life? just been
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clowning around.
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>> Maybe I can ask you some questions. I'll
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see.
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>> Hey, no, it's wonderful to have you
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here. Um,
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>> God, I should probably wait to get into
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this until we've um built a bit of
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rapport and trust, but I want to get
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into this straight away. Um, one of the
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viral moments of 2025. Um there there
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was a clip on on one news you walking
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from parliament I don't know where maybe
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to a cafe or back to your hotel and uh
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the political reporter um Mikey Sherman
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she's sort of chasing you down the
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street fair ghost style asking you know
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asking you if you're rip robbing New
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Zealanders over the price of butter. Um
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yeah [clears throat] how do you feel
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about that? That was um were you fuming
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when you got to your destination?
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>> Um it was a little bit uncomfortable I
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guess. I wouldn't I wouldn't say fuming.
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um disappointed more than anything that
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she knew I had a meeting with the the
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finance minister that afternoon. Uh I
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had a whole series of other meetings
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that morning, but I I had um Nicola I
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think at around 5:00 that that
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afternoon. Willis
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>> Nicola Willis rather clearly I had some
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information that I needed to share. But
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but at the same time the finance
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minister had invited me down to talk
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about the price of butter is what was
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the topic of the day. Uh, I wanted to
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have that conversation and be respectful
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because she asked for the meeting and
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not uh tell tell the public ahead of
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time. And so I uh I gave her my word
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that I would I would come out and talk
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um talk to the New Zealand public, you
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know, at the earliest convenience and I
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came out the following week very very
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quickly after that. Um but yes, I'm
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probably disappointed that that that was
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the approach she took. Um uh actually
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gave me a lot of support in our farmer
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base. you know, a lot of emails and
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texts from farmers um that evening
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saying this is disgraceful and this is
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what New Zealand media's come to and
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whatever. But at the end of the day,
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that's that's the job that I've got and
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I just sort of run with them. But yeah,
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as I say, disappointed more than
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anything. I
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>> I thought you handled yourself um pretty
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well. But did you do that thing that we
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we all do in awkward interactions where
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you're I don't know, you're in the
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shower late that night or you know,
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you're lying in bed and you think of
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different comebacks you could have had.
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>> Um yeah, there was a few, but actually
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some of the comebacks I wanted to play
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at the time I'm glad I didn't.
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[laughter] It's probably the easiest to
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think's not good.
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>> No, it wouldn't have been great and I
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suspect there'll be there'll be a meme
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even today if I had have played at some
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of those. So, I know, you know, it's
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trying to trying to,
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>> you know, keep a straight face and it
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was it's a hot topic. I I get that and
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um but at the same time, you know, as I
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say, I've got there's process that I
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needed to run by here and I felt like I
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did the right thing. But yeah, not not
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easy to to deal with that sort of thing.
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And and those meetings like that when
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you call to parliament for a meeting
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with um the prime minister or Nicola
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Willis or whoever it happens to be, what
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are they like? Are they
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>> are they are they are they tense
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meetings or is it is it you know
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crispies and cups of tea?
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>> No, I wouldn't say that. But but they're
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not you're not called or you're not
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summoned to to to parliament. It doesn't
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sort of work work like that.
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>> Uh but it's you know on your next visit
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down here wouldn't mind having you brief
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me on the status of the situation. So it
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sort of runs in that in that in that
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vein. But but you know there's often a
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number of officials in the room at the
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time on on on her side that have
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obviously got the details and the facts
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and and asking you getting her to ask
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the right questions. So it's quite a
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formal process. Um but I don't get um
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you know again it comes with the
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territory. It's just just part of the
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job and and you know she'll be put on
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the on the spot to to have a question
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asked of her and she needs the
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information and so I know it's my job to
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provide that.
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>> You've been in the role for a long time
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now. Do you you still get anxious with
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those meetings or
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>> um uh anxious probably not the word
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probably just um you anything's
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everything's on the table and so you
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know again I was I was there with the
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with the butter conversation in mind but
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you know we're governed by legislation
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so at any given time that could be a
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conversation around the deer industry
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restructuring act with the deer that
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that could be a topic of conversation
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you know every bill that goes through
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the house probably has a fonta impact
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somewhere
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>> whether that be, you know, even this
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this latest sort of round of educational
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changes, you know, of course they're
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going to be employees of ours at some
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point. So that we have an impact on that
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whether it be energy, uh,
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infrastructure, roing, all these all
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these sort of bill changes that may come
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through have an impact or or or could
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have an impact on Fonta. So I guess it's
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being not nervous but being prepared
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because at any point in time a
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politician or the prime minister or
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whoever it may be could ask you a
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question and you need to be on your toes
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for it. M
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>> yeah it's a big job with great power
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comes great responsibility. Isn't that
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the saying? Um I I mentioned on my
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Instagram that you're coming in and I
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outsourced a couple of questions. So
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we'll fire into these and then we'll um
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get into the Miles Hor story.
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>> Do you get the names and the the
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addresses the people ask?
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>> Not not the addresses. I I'm not reading
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all of them. I've selected a few. We
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don't need to have any questions about
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the rivers in New Zealand.
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>> Um Tiffany Court says not a question
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just the best CEO Fonta has had in my
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opinion. believes in the farmer
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supplier. What I don't even know what
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that last phrase means.
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>> Uh yeah, well, thanks Tiffany. Um look,
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I
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what's probably misunderstood most in in
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uh in urban New Zealand, if I can put it
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that way, without sort of labeling too
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many people here is that they don't
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understand we're a cooperative. And so,
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you know, Fonta is in the headlines
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often about all sorts of things. And
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we're a big organization and we
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contribute a heck of a lot to the New
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Zealand economy. All those things go
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without saying and we are we are a big
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company but we're we're owned by 8 and a
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half thousand farming families and so
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that's sort of lost a little bit. We're
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not a corporate where we're we're just a
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collection of of farming families all
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relatively big in their own right. If
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you think about uh you know a farm in
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the Wata that's got you know six or 700
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cows. Uh he he and she or he or she have
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have got the land that goes with it.
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They've got some shares in the
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cooperative. So, you know, they might
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have six or seven million dollars
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invested in their own business in its
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own right or maybe more in some cases.
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And of course, we're just a collection
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of all those eight and a half thousand
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for them to take their product, a
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perishable product to the world. And of
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course, it comes out of a car at at at,
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you know, 5 in the morning and it needs
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to be done something with very quickly
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before it goes off.
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>> Um, to for each of those 8 and a half
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thousand farmers to do that themselves,
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you just couldn't do it. And so the the
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role of a cooperative is to do that at
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scale for them. And that's the bit
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that's lost a little bit. And so the
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question or the comment that was made
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there is that he understands the the
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farmers. I understand the role we play
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in New Zealand, but also really
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understand the role that that I play and
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the cooperative plays for our farmers
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because, you know, we, you know, without
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us, you know, that five, six, seven
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million, call it whatever you like. That
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money that investment disappears over
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overnight if we don't do the right thing
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for it. It's not about the business that
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we have here in Oakland and the offices
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around the world. um it's about the
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making sure that we can we can have
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longevity for their businesses and so
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that when she makes that comment I it's
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around understanding where they come
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from. So that that's lost a little bit I
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think um when when people talk of Fonta
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this big corporate uh we're not a
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corporate we're a cooperative and it's a
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unique uh uh uh structure ownership
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structure and it and it uh and it works
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certainly in agricultural products and
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certainly for products that that that
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are perishable and if you don't do
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something about it uh goes off it works
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for us.
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>> Is that nice feedback to get is that
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common or uncommon? Um
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>> is it sort of 50/50 the
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>> uh yeah gee it depends. um depends so
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that the
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>> on what circle you're in or
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>> oh what what circle but but also the the
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the time of the day and so only this
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morning I've I've been on mainstream
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media to to increase or uh decrease our
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milk price or update farmers that were
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decreasing the milk price for the year
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ahead. Uh there's a lot of milk in the
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international market and so we've had to
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reduce our forecast and [snorts] so
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there'll be some emails sort of
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obviously firing in right now saying why
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is this this is not good enough and you
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need to be better on your at your game
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whatever. Um but you do get those that
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uh such as that that say um say we're
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doing a pretty good job and and it's and
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it's nice to hear cuz um you know there
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are time where there were very few of
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those quite frankly
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>> and and you know the cooperative lost
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its way um you know a decade or so ago
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and so hopefully we're turning the thing
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around and you know it's nice to get the
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credit.
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>> You get paid very well but you you take
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a lot of flogging so I
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>> Yeah. Yeah.
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>> Yeah. No no no question. And I'm not I'm
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the first to acknowledge that that I get
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I get paid paid very well. Uh but yeah,
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you're in the spotlight. You're in the
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crosshairs when when things go bad and
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and rightly so. Um the sort of the buck
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stops with me. So So I I accept that. Um
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but it's uh
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>> yeah, it comes with the territory, I
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guess. Yeah.
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>> Someone else on Instagram wanted to know
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what does the future of dairy look like
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for young farmers?
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>> Uh very positive. Um uh very positive.
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And I and I say that in the context of,
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[sighs]
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you know, maybe maybe a bit of
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description of sort of where we are as
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an organization and what we're doing. We
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made some quite big strategic decisions
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recently around our consumer businesses.
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Maybe I'll I'll cover off, but we're in
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a situation where over the medium to
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long term, there's always ups and downs
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at any given point in time, but over the
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medium to long term, you've got a
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growing middle class that are consuming
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more dairy. Full full stop. and and the
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the the you know statistically when you
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sort of move from that um you know below
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the sort of subsistence line you know
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below the sort of you know $5 a day
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income type type scenario in parts of
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Africa or maybe parts of Asia when you
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sort of move from there into what you'd
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call a middle class sort of income in
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those categories you you are looking for
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protein in your diet that's sort of how
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generally how it's worked for for for
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decades and so you're still seeing more
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and more people move into that middle
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class through parts of Southeast Asia,
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uh, in parts of China and in parts of
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Africa. So, you've got a a growing
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middle class that are wanting protein in
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their diets where maybe historically
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they haven't had access to to that from
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a financial perspective. And you're at a
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time a point in time uh, which is sort
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of the first time in the last maybe 50
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or 60 years where milk growth is not
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happening on at scale. So historically
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you saw uh large tracks of land all over
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the world converted to dairy because it
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was the right thing to do economically.
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Uh and so you had a demand pull on one
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side of this the growing middle class
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and you had access to um land and
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ultimately capital you know capital was
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relatively cheap and you had a
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rules-based uh trading system globally
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and so all those things gave a nice sort
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of um opportunity to to grow the
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industry. So you're seeing the demand
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continue. The same conversations that
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happened in this country around that
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happen globally. And when I say
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globally, I'm talking sort of the uh the
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northern hemisphere, Europe and North
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America to a lesser extent. Uh not so
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much in sort of the growing sort of
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Africas and these sort of things yet. Um
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and so you're not seeing the the the
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freedom to expand that maybe maybe you
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did maybe a decade or or 20 or 30 years
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ago. And so to answer the question, the
00:14:06
future for for young farmers is you've
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got a growing demand and a relatively
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constrained supply.
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You know, my economics 101 would suggest
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that you maybe you're going to see some
00:14:17
price increases over that long term. And
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you've seen that play a little bit in
00:14:19
the last couple of years. So those sort
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of things give I think um uh a strong
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future from an economic perspective. Um
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we know what to do now from an
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environmental perspective. Again, you
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could argue 20 years ago and there was a
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lot of conversions that went on in a New
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Zealand context that if you had a time
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again, you might do things slightly
00:14:37
differently. So, I guess a new
00:14:40
generation of of farmers coming through
00:14:42
are very attuned to to what that means
00:14:43
from a consumer perspective and licensed
00:14:45
to operate. So, all of those things I
00:14:47
think line ourselves up in in a good
00:14:49
position long term.
00:14:50
>> Someone wanted to know what are the most
00:14:52
important qualities of a successful
00:14:53
leader?
00:14:56
>> Uh the I don't Yeah. what I mean the
00:14:58
list is is pretty long I guess but I
00:15:00
think I know it starts with just
00:15:03
listening
00:15:04
>> understanding you know um and and
00:15:08
leaders comes in all all all shapes and
00:15:10
sizes and whatever but if you you know
00:15:11
an organization like ours which is which
00:15:13
is vast in its size and scale you know
00:15:16
you you can't do everything yourself
00:15:18
clearly and so having having a team of
00:15:21
people uh around you that that you can
00:15:23
trust and rely on um uh making sure that
00:15:27
um they've obviously got the skills to
00:15:29
do to do their job but but giving them
00:15:31
the freedom to operate but at the same
00:15:32
time um making sure there are boundaries
00:15:35
and guard rails that are aligned to sort
00:15:36
of the long term. So I think that's an
00:15:38
important part. We we talk we talk also
00:15:41
quite a bit around sort of our
00:15:43
leadership team um in in the cooperative
00:15:46
and trying to develop that next sort of
00:15:48
generation of leader to come through.
00:15:49
And there obviously things you've you've
00:15:51
you've you've obviously got to have done
00:15:52
the job and you've obviously got to have
00:15:54
the skills and you've got to have some
00:15:55
maybe some some leadership qualities but
00:15:58
there's also a piece in there around
00:16:00
um
00:16:02
there are just some things where a bit
00:16:04
of intuition comes in which maybe comes
00:16:05
from a bit of experience. You've you've
00:16:07
been there before. you've got sort of
00:16:08
few few ruck marks on the back of of
00:16:11
where things didn't go so well. Um so
00:16:14
you know some of those things are
00:16:15
important. It's hard to write that down
00:16:16
>> but but you're sort of um you know when
00:16:19
you know if I can say it in that context
00:16:21
>> and and you know the company intimately
00:16:23
you've been in the current role CEO for
00:16:25
seven years but um you've been there
00:16:26
half your life.
00:16:27
>> Yeah. 25 years.
00:16:28
>> I have just gone sixth of November um
00:16:31
2000. Um yes I have. I I I remember it
00:16:36
vividly in in Wellington. Started in
00:16:39
Wellington and and um and I've done a
00:16:41
range of jobs. So, lots of time in the
00:16:43
Middle East. Um spent some time in
00:16:45
Europe, spent some time in in in North
00:16:47
America and and um and and now in
00:16:49
Oakuckland. So, yeah. No, it's it's been
00:16:51
been varied.
00:16:52
>> Yeah, I'm I'm excited to um get into all
00:16:54
that. So, yeah, 1974 in Christ Church.
00:16:57
That's where you were born.
00:16:58
>> And you you're uh from what I can
00:17:00
gather, your dad worked in a bank,
00:17:02
worked in the same bank his entire
00:17:03
working career. He did indeed. Yeah.
00:17:05
>> And I wonder if that's um like your
00:17:06
longevity at the one company if if if
00:17:09
like your father's
00:17:11
>> um staying at the bank his entire career
00:17:13
played a role in that. Was this a bit
00:17:15
psychological?
00:17:16
>> Well, it's no it's it's not. But it's a
00:17:20
really interesting uh question because
00:17:21
you know I didn't grow up with my
00:17:22
father. Uh we didn't we didn't spend a
00:17:24
lot of time uh together and I I see him
00:17:26
from time to time but we didn't grow up
00:17:27
together. And while I knew he worked in
00:17:29
the bank, his his his whole career. He
00:17:31
had he had a number of roles um
00:17:32
throughout the country. So maybe it had
00:17:34
a part to play, but but as I say, it's
00:17:36
not like I was coming home every night
00:17:38
talking to him around what he was doing
00:17:39
at the office today and and therefore it
00:17:41
was
00:17:42
>> I was learning from that. So yeah, I
00:17:44
don't know. Maybe there's something in
00:17:45
there. I'm not sure.
00:17:45
>> Oh, a therapist would have a field day.
00:17:47
I'm sure they [laughter] like you're
00:17:48
trying to get your dad's approval or
00:17:49
something.
00:17:50
>> I'm I'm sure it's not my job. I'm just a
00:17:52
podcast host. Um yeah, paint a picture
00:17:54
of your upbringing. Yeah. Like earliest
00:17:55
memories.
00:17:56
>> Oh, jeepers. Um, look, it was it was a
00:17:59
bit messy, if I can say that. And messy
00:18:01
in the context of if you asked me to
00:18:02
sort of tell me about your mother and
00:18:04
your father and your brothers and
00:18:05
sisters or whatever it may be. Um, we
00:18:07
we'd probably need more than a couple of
00:18:08
hours and I'd need need a very large
00:18:11
whiteboard. Sort of the core of it is is
00:18:13
a uh my mother grew up um effectively a
00:18:17
single mother for vast majority of it.
00:18:19
And my two two brothers, there were some
00:18:22
other brothers that I lived with over
00:18:23
the over the time. might still call them
00:18:24
brothers and see them uh relatively uh
00:18:27
frequently and so we'd still call each
00:18:29
other brothers but there's probably
00:18:30
there's the three boys is probably the
00:18:32
way I'd describe
00:18:34
>> um but a bit of a trooper actually my
00:18:36
mother when I think back about it I mean
00:18:38
you know didn't have much living on on
00:18:39
on government support and trying to
00:18:42
bring up three three boys. Um you look
00:18:46
back now in awe and think you know how
00:18:47
the heck did she do it? Um but but she
00:18:50
did and I never felt at any point in
00:18:52
time that I went without.
00:18:55
>> I never felt that we were poor and I
00:18:56
look back now and go hellish we were
00:18:58
very poor but I never felt like that.
00:19:00
And so you know kudos to her for um for
00:19:03
I guess putting a shield around us and
00:19:05
and and getting us to this point and you
00:19:07
know touchwood all three of us are still
00:19:10
doing okay I think. And so yeah.
00:19:12
>> Yeah. You and I are a similar age. My
00:19:14
parents were sort of on again off again.
00:19:16
They had went through some separations
00:19:17
and I remember at the time being like
00:19:18
eight or nine at Riverdale Primary
00:19:20
School in Palmer North and there was
00:19:21
only one other kid in the class that was
00:19:23
from a broke god I hate the term broken
00:19:24
home but um I mean it's quite common now
00:19:27
I think but back then it was um
00:19:30
>> yeah it was it was quite unusual.
00:19:31
>> Yeah. But but interesting I didn't see
00:19:33
it as that and you know my my parents
00:19:35
separated when when I was very young so
00:19:37
I sort of didn't we didn't get caught up
00:19:38
in the however that played out. they
00:19:40
they they're still on talking terms now,
00:19:42
so [clears throat] I don't think it was
00:19:44
nasty at any point, but
00:19:45
>> it's not like we were dragged into into
00:19:47
that. Um I remember spending times with
00:19:50
my father and um in the weekends he
00:19:52
lived in Wellington and so we we lived
00:19:54
in Wellington for a period as well and
00:19:55
so we'd I remember going to his place in
00:19:57
Miramar. I remember a couple of those
00:19:59
sort of doing the lawns at I don't know
00:20:01
how old it would have been four or
00:20:02
something. He was doing the lawns and
00:20:04
the transistor radio with Brian Waddle
00:20:06
listen to the cricket or something. I I
00:20:07
have vague recollections of of those
00:20:10
sort of things. Um but I never felt the
00:20:13
sort of broken home situation and it's
00:20:16
um
00:20:17
>> you know I look back I went to
00:20:19
>> I think I went to seven different
00:20:20
primary schools or or actually a primary
00:20:22
school seven times. There was a couple
00:20:23
of them that went to twice as we moved
00:20:25
around around. Uh but again that was
00:20:28
just I I just saw that as as normal and
00:20:30
you know things got a bit more stable
00:20:32
when I got into into secondary school
00:20:33
and stayed at the same same school for
00:20:36
uh for for the five years. But I um I uh
00:20:39
yeah as I said I don't sort of have any
00:20:40
any views of you know what was it like
00:20:42
in a broken home or anything because I I
00:20:44
didn't feel that.
00:20:46
>> What part of your mom's influence um do
00:20:48
you think show up in how you lead today?
00:20:51
>> I think resilience. Yeah.
00:20:52
>> Yeah. She's um you know when you think
00:20:55
back you know she she had a pretty tough
00:20:57
time you know through through the years
00:21:00
um [clears throat] but her resilience
00:21:01
through that I think um and even I got
00:21:03
to spend the night with her last week
00:21:04
we're down in Christ Church and I stay
00:21:06
within the night and we we had a well of
00:21:07
all time and we we just chat about old
00:21:09
times actually and talk about the
00:21:11
brothers and what we did when we were
00:21:12
younger and those sort of things. So,
00:21:14
it's quite quite funny to have reminisce
00:21:16
about about some of those things, but I
00:21:18
think that resilience
00:21:20
>> um and that uh you know, on the surface
00:21:23
nothing phases you and so how do you
00:21:24
sort of lean into you know when you got
00:21:27
some adversity in front of you, how do
00:21:28
you lean into it and and and and not
00:21:31
quite guard your people but but how do
00:21:32
you protect them from some of the stuff
00:21:34
you're having to deal with? So, maybe
00:21:36
there's a bit of that.
00:21:38
>> You must look back in awe of what what
00:21:40
she did. like it must have been
00:21:41
unimaginably hard at times and she
00:21:43
shielded you guys from a lot of that.
00:21:45
>> Yeah, very much so. Um, you know, but I,
00:21:49
you know, was there was a wider family
00:21:51
connection and I remember there was
00:21:52
always um she used to clean houses uh
00:21:56
from from time to time and so you know
00:21:58
even now I think she still talks to the
00:22:00
people that she cleaned houses for. So
00:22:02
there was always you a bag of old
00:22:04
clothes that would turn up. Again, from
00:22:06
our perspective, they were new clothes,
00:22:07
but but you know, a bag of old clothes.
00:22:09
And so, you know, there's some there was
00:22:11
some nice memories I I I had of of that
00:22:14
time. There's a couple of a couple of
00:22:16
shockers as well. I remember um you
00:22:18
know, it was a good day. You had Marmite
00:22:20
sandwiches at school and that was sort
00:22:22
of the the go-to. But I do remember
00:22:24
[clears throat] one day we had I
00:22:26
remember having chicken sandwiches and
00:22:27
it was this is unheard of. And so it was
00:22:29
fantastic until we got home and realized
00:22:31
there was the the chicken that used to
00:22:32
hang around the backyard was no longer
00:22:35
>> [laughter]
00:22:36
>> and I do together
00:22:37
>> and I and I realized that, you know,
00:22:39
geez, she's she she just she'll do what
00:22:41
she needs to do. And um so there's some
00:22:44
wonderful memories, but but I still I
00:22:46
still remember that
00:22:47
>> and uh and and we we chuckle about that
00:22:50
from time to time, mom and I now, cuz
00:22:51
it's, you know, it's like, gee, she'll
00:22:53
do whatever she need to do to keep her
00:22:55
kids, you know, healthy or whatever what
00:22:56
is required.
00:22:57
>> When was the last time you had some of
00:22:59
her bacon and egg pie? Did she cook you
00:23:00
some the other week when you were down
00:23:01
there?
00:23:02
>> She did last week. How do you know this
00:23:03
stuff? [laughter] I did a bit more
00:23:05
research. You there's um by the way I
00:23:07
can can I just say like 23 minutes in I
00:23:09
I appreciate you being so open because
00:23:10
there's um there's very limited
00:23:11
information about you online and I
00:23:13
suppose that's by design.
00:23:14
>> There's an element of that and I you
00:23:16
know um you know I'm protective of my
00:23:19
family you know my wife and and and son
00:23:22
um so yeah I do want to do want to
00:23:24
protect them. So, so you know, um, and
00:23:27
and you know, maybe I was a bit, um, a
00:23:30
bit old and missed the sort of the
00:23:32
social media sort of wave and was
00:23:35
overseas at the time and all got sort of
00:23:37
a bit much. So, there's a couple of
00:23:38
little social media things that I sort
00:23:39
of get involved in. But, but generally,
00:23:40
to your point,
00:23:42
>> um, you know, I just put my head down,
00:23:44
do what I need to do um, from a from a a
00:23:47
business perspective, but also from a
00:23:49
personal perspective, focus on my family
00:23:51
and and, you know, not not worry about
00:23:52
what's happening outside.
00:23:54
Yeah. Um, [clears throat] your your
00:23:56
reaction just before though about the
00:23:57
bacon egg pie. It's it's really cool.
00:23:59
You here you middle-aged man and you
00:24:01
know you never told the mom's bacon and
00:24:03
egg pie.
00:24:04
>> Well, when you know when I when I I
00:24:06
said, "I'm coming down. I've got a few
00:24:08
hours to spare. You know, we'll pop in
00:24:09
and say good day."
00:24:11
>> And then it transpired. I had a bit more
00:24:12
time. So, I stayed and the first thing
00:24:14
she says, "What, you know, what do you
00:24:15
want? What do you want for for your
00:24:16
dinner?" Um, so, you know, it's like
00:24:18
what's what are the good things that
00:24:20
we're going to have together? And so,
00:24:21
it's a bacon egg pie.
00:24:22
>> [sighs and gasps]
00:24:23
>> Um, but it's the same it's it's the same
00:24:25
routine in a nice way. You know, we'll
00:24:26
go down there and we sit sit and we chat
00:24:28
and she'll probably have some some game
00:24:30
show on in the background. [snorts]
00:24:31
>> The chase.
00:24:32
>> Um, the chase or something like that.
00:24:34
Um, and it's uh she she she baked a bit
00:24:37
of food and she's, you know, maybe got a
00:24:39
bottle of wine and the cheapest she can
00:24:41
find in the fridge and [snorts]
00:24:43
and we sit and have a have a natter and
00:24:45
then you generally um although not on
00:24:48
this occasion to my brothers that are
00:24:49
that may watch this, um generally you go
00:24:52
back and you you take your shoes out of
00:24:54
your bag in a couple days time and she
00:24:55
slipped $20 in there cuz you might need
00:24:57
it and it's like thanks mom. You know, I
00:25:01
I'm right. I'm right on this. But, you
00:25:03
know, she'll she'll stuff a few dollars
00:25:04
in your bag from time to time. And
00:25:06
>> I've got goosebumps.
00:25:07
>> Well, this is this it is crazy to think,
00:25:09
you know, and I think she knows what I
00:25:11
do.
00:25:12
>> But even even so, you know, there's you
00:25:15
find a bit of couple of dollars dash
00:25:16
here and there because you might just
00:25:18
need it. And so, uh, as I say, not on
00:25:20
this occasion, so my brothers aren't
00:25:21
going to give me a hard time that I'm
00:25:23
getting special treatment, but yeah.
00:25:24
>> Oh, that's wonderful. My nana before she
00:25:26
passed, she'd be the same. like I'd be
00:25:28
maybe in my 40s and on my birthday she
00:25:30
sent me a card with five bucks in.
00:25:31
>> Yeah. Amazing, isn't it?
00:25:32
>> Wonderful. It's really cool.
00:25:34
>> Um then you went to Christ Church Boys
00:25:36
High. You actually went back there a few
00:25:37
months ago and spoke [clears throat] to
00:25:39
Yeah.
00:25:39
>> What What's that like? How's that going
00:25:41
back?
00:25:42
>> Um gee, I enjoyed it. I I really did. It
00:25:44
seemed smaller. Um crazy that seemed a
00:25:47
whole lot smaller, which you know, I
00:25:49
guess it's out rolls, but um [snorts]
00:25:51
no, I enjoyed it and and I have such
00:25:54
fond memories of that score. I really do
00:25:55
for for everything that it stands for.
00:25:57
Maybe we can talk about that. But um
00:26:00
interesting. My my older brother and my
00:26:01
younger brother both went there and
00:26:03
loathed it.
00:26:04
>> Quite quite amazing. They both loathed
00:26:06
it. Both both didn't last the time and
00:26:08
ended up leaving and going into to other
00:26:09
schools in Christ Church um about my
00:26:11
fifth form or thereabouts.
00:26:13
>> But I can't speak highly enough of the
00:26:15
place and the friendships that I've I
00:26:16
developed and still have you know we
00:26:18
still sort of have have banter amongst
00:26:20
amongst our mates. and sort of go back
00:26:22
there and see um all the things I
00:26:25
enjoyed at the time and the I don't know
00:26:27
the professionalism and you know getting
00:26:29
a flick on the air if your socks were
00:26:31
down and that sort of stuff. Oh, you I
00:26:33
don't know. I quite enjoyed a bit of a
00:26:35
bit of character with a bit bit of
00:26:36
discipline goes goes a long way. And so
00:26:38
to see that
00:26:39
>> still to this day, you know, [ __ ] 30 35
00:26:42
odd years on um was pretty cool. And to
00:26:45
to to been asked to speak at an assembly
00:26:47
and and those sort of things was was was
00:26:49
quite inspiring, especially the fact
00:26:51
that uh it I I think and I had to sort
00:26:54
of just check this in my memory, but I
00:26:56
think it was the first time I'd ever
00:26:57
been on the stage in that school despite
00:26:59
spending five years there. So I never
00:27:01
got called up to get any certificates or
00:27:02
blazes or whatever it was.
00:27:03
>> So you weren't a prefect or a head boy?
00:27:06
>> No, I was just just come come as they
00:27:07
go. And so um
00:27:09
>> yeah, I stood I sat on that stage there
00:27:11
for you watching the assembly and then
00:27:13
got up and spoke and was like I don't I
00:27:15
don't think you've ever been here. And
00:27:16
uh so that was quite nice in itself. I
00:27:18
felt
00:27:18
>> Jeez, you've done good. Yeah. What from
00:27:20
the school um stuck with you? What is
00:27:22
the school motto for Christ Church Boys?
00:27:24
>> Elapido. We we seek higher things. We
00:27:26
seek higher things. Um
00:27:28
>> it's crazy how these things stick with
00:27:29
you.
00:27:29
>> Yes, it is. It is. Um I don't I I I I
00:27:32
don't know. Um you know I was never in
00:27:34
never in the top sports teams. Um you
00:27:36
know enjoyed my sport in that there
00:27:38
never in the top sports team but was in
00:27:39
in awe of those guys are in the top
00:27:41
sports team because I know you know how
00:27:43
hard it was to get in the top sports
00:27:44
team. Um you know I was never the
00:27:47
brightest kid in the class but I worked
00:27:49
relatively hard. Um I felt I worked
00:27:51
relatively hard to get to get my my pass
00:27:54
marks and the like.
00:27:55
>> [snorts]
00:27:55
>> Um, but I just think that the mates that
00:27:58
you got um, uh, relatively diverse
00:28:01
backgrounds, which I know sounds a bit
00:28:03
bit, um, ironic when you sort of talk
00:28:04
about Christ Church Boys High School,
00:28:06
you sort of got a a stereotype, but
00:28:07
actually I think about my mates. There
00:28:09
was, um, there was sort of a range of of
00:28:11
of lads in there. Um,
00:28:14
uh, none of them, in fact, of my very
00:28:16
close friends sort of lived in the area
00:28:18
of of the school were all sort of out of
00:28:20
zones in different parts. And so you by
00:28:22
default you come from not the the
00:28:24
richest part of Christ yet. So we had a
00:28:26
lot in common I think us mates but oh
00:28:29
the laughs and the you know the
00:28:30
friendships and you know and then you
00:28:32
know we we lost a friend when and when
00:28:35
he was 21 unfortunately I think that
00:28:37
sort of
00:28:37
>> if there's any chance of the friendships
00:28:39
sort of starting to fall apart at that
00:28:40
age sort of brought us back together a
00:28:42
bit I think as well. And so it's it's
00:28:43
yeah it's stuck. It's bloody good.
00:28:45
>> How did you lose your friend?
00:28:46
>> He unfortunately died in a car accident.
00:28:48
He he was a passenger in a in a work in
00:28:50
a work car that just had a unfortunate
00:28:52
accident and man it was sort of it was
00:28:54
tough.
00:28:56
>> Um yeah first experience with death is
00:28:58
always um yeah it's quite challenging if
00:29:01
someone if someone went back and um saw
00:29:04
13 14 15 year old Miles sitting in class
00:29:07
daydreaming.
00:29:08
>> Yeah.
00:29:08
>> Um and said look in a few years from now
00:29:11
you're going to be the CEO of New
00:29:12
Zealand's biggest company one of the
00:29:13
highest paid CEOs in the country. What
00:29:15
what would what would your reaction be?
00:29:16
What would the reaction of the staff at
00:29:18
the school be?
00:29:20
>> Um,
00:29:21
uh, disbelief.
00:29:22
>> Uh,
00:29:23
>> yeah, there would have, there would have
00:29:25
been a couple of people said, uh,
00:29:27
teachers would have said, "Oh, he
00:29:28
probably talked his way into it or
00:29:30
something." And I can think of a couple
00:29:31
of those people now.
00:29:33
>> Um, [snorts]
00:29:34
>> did you have the gift of the gab?
00:29:35
>> No, not not really. Not no, I wouldn't.
00:29:37
No, I wouldn't say that. But, but I I
00:29:39
don't know. I just I just enjoyed
00:29:42
talking to to people a little bit, I
00:29:43
think. And so, um, may maybe there was
00:29:46
an element of, you know, he might have
00:29:47
talked his way into it, but I I wouldn't
00:29:49
have I wouldn't have thought any of any
00:29:51
of my peers would have would have ever
00:29:53
thought this was possible. In fact,
00:29:55
>> I don't think it was until the day
00:29:57
before I got appointed that I didn't
00:29:58
think it was possible, actually. So, I
00:30:00
don't I don't know.
00:30:01
>> What What did you want to be when you
00:30:02
grew up?
00:30:04
>> Oh,
00:30:05
>> when you when you realize all black and
00:30:06
black caps off the table?
00:30:07
>> Yeah. Well, well, that was only last
00:30:09
week. [laughter]
00:30:11
No, look, um, yeah, you as a young
00:30:13
fellow, clearly you wanted to be, you
00:30:14
know, to be a small star when you when
00:30:16
you were growing up, but but you know,
00:30:17
that that disappears pretty quick.
00:30:19
>> Um, I did have aspirations of of maybe
00:30:21
being a pilot. Um, and then I enjoyed uh
00:30:25
I enjoyed my technical drawing back in
00:30:27
the day, what it was. So, I sort of had
00:30:28
ideas of maybe draftsman or something
00:30:31
and and I had a had an uncle that was in
00:30:33
that sort of game. So, maybe there's a
00:30:34
bit of that in the back of my mind. Um,
00:30:37
uh, there was an element of maybe a
00:30:39
builder. I sort of have I enjoyed that
00:30:41
being outside and that sort of thing. So
00:30:43
I I had no real I had ambition. It's an
00:30:46
important it's really an interesting
00:30:48
point. I had ambition but but not that
00:30:50
it's the job and I'm going to go how's
00:30:53
on to get it. You know it was was never
00:30:54
that. Um so yeah just again I just just
00:30:58
run with it. Serendipity see where
00:31:00
things take me and um you know it's it's
00:31:03
it's done okay. I think
00:31:05
>> it sure has. It's amazing. Even like um
00:31:07
goal setting is great, but even if you
00:31:08
don't set a goal, if you just work hard
00:31:10
and get momentum going in one direction,
00:31:12
it's amazing where you'll end up.
00:31:14
>> Yeah. And I think the opportunities that
00:31:16
come with that and and um you know, if I
00:31:19
put it in in a sort of the work context,
00:31:22
>> you know, all of those roles that I had
00:31:24
overseas um
00:31:26
none sort of did I apply for, if I can
00:31:29
put it that way, they all said, "Hey, we
00:31:30
need we need someone to fill this role.
00:31:32
the experience you've you've done in the
00:31:34
past few years puts you in a pretty good
00:31:36
position. Are you up for it? And it was
00:31:38
always a conversation back home with my
00:31:39
wife and you know we came for an
00:31:41
adventure. Yeah, let's give it a go. And
00:31:43
we got on a plane and and have a crack
00:31:44
at it. But I think if you don't put
00:31:45
yourself in a position to have that
00:31:47
opportunity and you're very narrow in
00:31:49
your mind that I'm going to have that
00:31:50
job and and and that's the role I'm
00:31:52
going to go after, you're probably going
00:31:54
to be disappointed. Uh and so I've
00:31:56
always felt that be a bit more
00:31:57
open-minded around around what the
00:31:59
opportunities could be. uh you need to
00:32:01
be prepared for disappointment um that
00:32:04
that you go down a path and realize that
00:32:06
the role you're sort of eyeing up came
00:32:08
available. So, but I think that's sort
00:32:10
of always the approach that I've had.
00:32:11
Just be open-minded, work hard and and
00:32:14
not that you wait for things to be
00:32:15
handed to you, but but hopefully if you
00:32:17
prove yourself, you'll put yourself in a
00:32:19
position to to be at least in in in
00:32:21
contention.
00:32:21
>> Yeah. So, you leave you leave Crushage
00:32:23
Boys, you start in freight before moving
00:32:25
to dairy.
00:32:26
>> Um what made you realize dairy was your
00:32:28
lane? You you've got no farm experience,
00:32:30
eh?
00:32:30
>> No, no farm experience. Um, so yes, so I
00:32:33
worked for for PNO shipping as it was
00:32:35
back in the day, which is which is sort
00:32:36
of more recently been bought out by MK
00:32:38
Mand. But um
00:32:41
um yeah, I started that and that was
00:32:43
again it was a bit of serendipity. It
00:32:44
was sort of at the back end of of of the
00:32:46
seventh form year. Um you know,
00:32:50
financially, you know, university was
00:32:52
was was the option because that's where
00:32:54
sort of most people were sort of
00:32:55
heading. Um, but financially it wasn't
00:32:58
an option. It was going to have to be a
00:32:59
lot of part-time work and doing what
00:33:01
whatever I needed to do to make that
00:33:02
happen. And that was that was certainly
00:33:04
something that I was I was prepared for.
00:33:07
Um, but but P and I used to take on
00:33:09
someone every two or three years and
00:33:11
they came to the school and uh and they
00:33:13
asked would would be someone interested
00:33:14
and maybe one of those teachers that
00:33:17
thought I wanted to uh talk too much, I
00:33:19
don't know, indicated, hey, maybe this
00:33:21
guy's up for it. So I interviewed and
00:33:23
and um and and was lucky enough actually
00:33:26
terrible story on that and this this guy
00:33:28
I'm going to make sure he watches this
00:33:29
podcast so he knows I'm talking about
00:33:31
him but um but I've al always had this
00:33:34
sort of um I've sort of questioned or
00:33:36
doubted myself a couple of times you
00:33:38
know quite often it's sort of how I roll
00:33:40
and I got offered this job and there
00:33:42
were two other guys at the school uh
00:33:44
that um that also got asked to apply for
00:33:46
it and they offered me the job and so I
00:33:49
went home thinking gee this is a big
00:33:50
change in what I'm going to be learn
00:33:52
from from when it is a few weeks time.
00:33:55
And and my mate um he said to me, "No,
00:33:58
no, no. When do they ring you?" And I
00:34:00
said, "They rang me last night and told
00:34:01
me I got the job." He said, "No, no,
00:34:02
that was me, idiot. I was I was kidding
00:34:04
you." [laughter] And I was like, "Oh,
00:34:06
you bastard." You know, and I was [ __ ]
00:34:08
maybe I didn't get the job. So, I
00:34:09
actually had to have my mother ring up
00:34:11
and make some weak excuse around, you
00:34:14
know, my son's been tied up and just
00:34:16
wants to know, you know, what is the the
00:34:18
lift access code? I don't know what she
00:34:20
asked but she made some weak excuse that
00:34:22
you know does Miles start at 9:00 or
00:34:24
9:30 whatever it was and of course oh no
00:34:26
Miles we need to see him at 8:30 or
00:34:27
whatever it was. Oh, great. Thanks. But
00:34:29
I still and he, you know, he never
00:34:31
admitted, "No, no, I just I was
00:34:32
kidding." [laughter] But um but anyway,
00:34:35
so I started in in in that role and and
00:34:37
what a great sort of grounding. I call
00:34:39
it, I don't know, managing train, call
00:34:40
it what you like. But it was just this
00:34:42
well-rounded
00:34:43
um being the dogs body in the office of
00:34:45
just learning all sorts of stuff around
00:34:47
sort of how an office operates. um not
00:34:50
not gaining a whole lot of skill but
00:34:52
just just you know from from a school
00:34:54
environment to to people walking around
00:34:56
in suits was was a different environment
00:34:57
and and a and an English company so
00:34:59
there was a bit of bit of um um
00:35:02
properness about it if that's a word
00:35:04
>> but um and so again I sort of enjoyed
00:35:06
that uh but again you know worked hard
00:35:10
got taken under under the wing of of one
00:35:12
of the sales people there and said maybe
00:35:13
you need to sort of move out of sort of
00:35:14
general management or general you know
00:35:17
um uh office work to maybe come in and
00:35:20
get into sales. And so they took me in
00:35:22
and and that's how it worked. I then got
00:35:24
uh moved to Wellington uh with PO to
00:35:27
take on the role of sort of looking
00:35:28
after what was the dairy board. And so
00:35:30
that was my introduction to the dairy
00:35:31
industry. And so uh was selling freight
00:35:34
to to the dairy board who who still are
00:35:37
the largest exporter from New Zealand.
00:35:39
And so that was it was that was the
00:35:41
biggest gig really in in PNO at the
00:35:43
time. And I was still only a young
00:35:45
fellow. And so um
00:35:46
>> you must have been like early 20s. Yeah.
00:35:48
Yeah. I guess
00:35:49
>> it's a lot of responsibility. You look
00:35:50
back now, how do you
00:35:51
>> It was a lot of responsibility. Um now,
00:35:53
of course, there was sort of two or
00:35:54
three layers above me before sort of the
00:35:56
the senior management. So, you know,
00:35:58
there was always some to come in and
00:36:00
scoop up behind the scenes. But, uh it
00:36:01
gave me a huge um opportunity to get to
00:36:04
know the deer industry. Um a great
00:36:07
opportunity to get to know the deer
00:36:08
industry actually. And so, some of the
00:36:10
people in it, some of the key players
00:36:11
right at a time when the merger was
00:36:13
being announced. So, the merger of Kiwi
00:36:15
Dairy Group and the dairy board. And so
00:36:17
[snorts] at that point in time, no one
00:36:18
was sure how the merger was going to
00:36:21
play out, whether they be the dairy
00:36:22
group would take a leadership role, Kiwi
00:36:24
would take a leadership role, the dairy
00:36:25
board. And so, uh, the task that I had,
00:36:28
although I set myself, is to get to know
00:36:30
a lot of people in that business because
00:36:31
who knows who's going to be in charge of
00:36:33
the freight decisions in a year's time.
00:36:35
And so, I spent a lot of time um,
00:36:38
talking to different people and call it
00:36:39
networking, I guess. Um and as a result
00:36:43
when when um this the shipping guy on
00:36:45
the dairy board moved on uh the the top
00:36:48
guy said you know you seem to know
00:36:49
what's going on do you want to come and
00:36:50
work for us and that was it. So
00:36:53
>> very fortunate again it was a nice sort
00:36:54
of sliding door moment where it all sort
00:36:56
of lined up for me and um sort of the
00:36:59
rest is history.
00:37:00
>> So this must have been about two the
00:37:01
year 2000.
00:37:02
>> It was 2000 2000 if got if someone said
00:37:05
you'd still be there 25 years later and
00:37:06
you'd be running the running the ship.
00:37:08
>> Would you believe that? Not not at all.
00:37:11
In saying that ve very early on uh I
00:37:14
realized that you know for me uh from
00:37:16
what is that 92 to 2000 sort of that 8y
00:37:18
year period of of very various roles in
00:37:20
PNO. Uh [clears throat] at that point um
00:37:24
there was only one thing in the world
00:37:25
and that was supply chain. It's all
00:37:26
about supply chain. It's all about
00:37:27
shipping. And of course you get into the
00:37:29
dairy industry and go Jeep is that
00:37:30
that's this tiny little division out the
00:37:32
side that's important don't get me wrong
00:37:34
but actually we're here to process this
00:37:36
white stuff into all these wonderful
00:37:38
products
00:37:39
>> and so again someone saw that I was a
00:37:41
bit a bit inquisitive said you know
00:37:44
leave the supply chain and come and work
00:37:46
in in the milk powder division and so
00:37:48
that's what I did and um had a great
00:37:50
mentor in there and and Colin Jones who
00:37:53
unfortunately passed away earlier this
00:37:54
year and so he's he was a great mentor
00:37:56
for many many years actually to to help
00:37:58
me learn the industry, learn the
00:38:00
markets, and then yeah, ultimately throw
00:38:02
me in the deep end into into into the
00:38:04
into Bahrain.
00:38:06
>> Jeez. Um he must have been so proud of
00:38:09
um you watching you go through the
00:38:11
>> l and he was he was a very a very humble
00:38:15
humble man. Had a had a mouth like a
00:38:17
sewer. Um absolutely mouth like a sewer.
00:38:20
Colin Jones and again his his wife will
00:38:22
be be proud of him because because he
00:38:24
did um but but he did and and he told me
00:38:28
um I saw a lot of him in his in his last
00:38:30
uh his last few months and uh and he
00:38:33
told me a lot he was proud of me and it
00:38:34
was it was nice to hear that and deep
00:38:36
down you always knew it when you were
00:38:37
working for him but he'd never tell you
00:38:39
that you know he'd just tell you to work
00:38:40
harder and
00:38:42
>> you know any anytime he thought you you
00:38:44
you're getting too big for your boots
00:38:45
he'd slap you down and and and pull you
00:38:47
into line but he did tell me in his last
00:38:49
sort of days he wasn't. So that was it
00:38:50
was nice to hear that.
00:38:52
>> Oh, that's wonderful.
00:38:53
>> Oh, that's really cool.
00:38:54
>> Yeah, very [sighs] nice.
00:38:55
>> So, with um the company, you
00:38:57
[clears throat] you've lived and worked
00:38:58
in Germany, USA, Middle East, Africa,
00:39:01
Russia.
00:39:02
>> Um favorite place outside of NZ to live.
00:39:05
>> Uh to live would be would be Germany
00:39:07
actually. Um I never lived in in Russia.
00:39:09
I looked after Russia for my sins for a
00:39:11
few years and we can talk about that.
00:39:13
But um no, I lived I lived in Hamburg
00:39:16
two years almost to the day, two years,
00:39:18
which is not a long stint. That was one
00:39:20
of those moments that that I referred to
00:39:22
where you can be disappointed that I was
00:39:24
given an opportunity to step up into a
00:39:26
larger a larger role in Chicago. Um only
00:39:29
for the next more senior role in Germany
00:39:31
to pop up and I would have loved that
00:39:33
role but you can't you can't sort of cry
00:39:35
over spilled milk as they say. Um but
00:39:37
but uh holistically in term when I say
00:39:40
holistic I'm talking about the job the
00:39:42
location the people in Germany were
00:39:45
wonderful uh absolutely fantastic bunch
00:39:48
of people that I worked with um and so
00:39:51
you put all that together the weather
00:39:53
believe it or not I enjoyed the four
00:39:54
seasons that that Germany throws at you
00:39:57
>> um and you know their location you know
00:39:59
an hour's flight to London and Spain or
00:40:01
whatever it might be. So all of that
00:40:03
together was for me was was was Germany.
00:40:06
Um, my wife, interestingly enough, uh,
00:40:08
would be the least of her list. Um,
00:40:11
>> and so I, you know, working for a for a
00:40:13
Kiwi company, you know, English was was
00:40:15
spoken in the office despite having vast
00:40:17
majority were German a German workers,
00:40:20
uh, where she worked for more of a
00:40:22
German office. And so she really had to
00:40:24
struggle with the language and, you
00:40:26
know, I think I learned uh, beer, pizza,
00:40:29
taxi, um,
00:40:30
>> all the important stuff. all the
00:40:32
important stuff which translate in the
00:40:33
same words by the way um where she was
00:40:36
having to you know um communicate in
00:40:39
German more so so she'd come home a bit
00:40:41
more exhausted than I would from a from
00:40:43
that perspective um but you know
00:40:46
wonderful time in Germany and and as I
00:40:48
say fond fond memories of of my time
00:40:50
there
00:40:52
>> yeah all these moves um so you've been
00:40:53
you've been married for 22 years
00:40:56
>> uh 2003 yes there you go yeah thank you
00:40:59
so she she's been on all these You're
00:41:01
welcome. I've seen you a reminder every
00:41:03
year on your
00:41:04
>> It was written under my ring, but it's
00:41:06
actually worn off after all these years.
00:41:07
I needed that to remind me. But anyway,
00:41:09
>> so some of these must be bit tough for
00:41:10
her. You're like, "Hey, guess what? You
00:41:12
know, here you are. You're this young
00:41:13
hot shot. You're rising through the
00:41:15
ranks of this company getting increased
00:41:16
responsibility
00:41:18
>> and she's got to pack up the house and,
00:41:20
you know, trudge along with you every
00:41:22
step of the way." Um, yeah, it can't
00:41:23
have been easy at times.
00:41:25
>> Homesickness and other things. the
00:41:27
homesickness maybe we'll come back to
00:41:29
because not as much as you'd probably
00:41:31
think much to her her family's disgust
00:41:33
but anyway um but no I mean huge kudos
00:41:36
for her I mean you know you say we're
00:41:39
moving in 3 months uh are we into this
00:41:42
let's go yep and you get it all set up
00:41:45
and you block out four days in the diary
00:41:47
that we're going to just we're going to
00:41:48
get the house packed and there's a
00:41:50
crisis of sorts and so we either defer
00:41:53
the pack until next week when I can make
00:41:54
it back or invariably you know, she'll
00:41:57
do it. And and that was tough, you know,
00:41:59
and so I take my hat off to her, but
00:42:01
we've always had this conversation right
00:42:03
from from the early days and she was a
00:42:05
Christ Church um Christ Church lady as
00:42:07
well. Uh so she graduated from from
00:42:10
Canterbury. Uh and so when I moved to
00:42:12
Wellington for the for the for the PNO
00:42:14
job, uh she um finished her degree
00:42:18
probably five or six months behind me
00:42:19
and we we commuted there there and back.
00:42:23
Um but there was um right right from the
00:42:25
start her and I have been sort of this
00:42:27
team where we're going to do this
00:42:28
together and at any point you want to
00:42:29
wave the the white flag that it's either
00:42:32
you're out of here or I'm out of here.
00:42:34
We're both out of here and and we've had
00:42:36
this deal
00:42:37
>> uh for a long for a long time and it's
00:42:39
and it and it stuck. And so you know we
00:42:42
sort of we we we joke not joke but we we
00:42:45
talk um you know she was earning more
00:42:47
than me in in those early days as a
00:42:49
graduate um in in Wellington. Um, and so
00:42:53
she sacrificed and she moved on to other
00:42:55
jobs, but she sacrificed a heck of a
00:42:57
lot. You know, she could have been doing
00:42:59
this job, you know, uh, quite frankly,
00:43:01
you know, so it could have easily be me
00:43:03
following her and her career and I would
00:43:04
have been happy to do that. Um, but, you
00:43:07
know, the opportunity back to that that
00:43:08
that fellow I referred to earlier, he
00:43:10
took me under his wing and said, "We
00:43:12
want you to send to this place called
00:43:13
Bahrain," which I had to struggle to
00:43:14
find on a map at the time. But it was an
00:43:17
easy conversation at home. Hey, are you
00:43:18
into this? And it was like, yeah, when
00:43:20
are we going? Let's go tomorrow. let's
00:43:22
let's pack our bags and let's have some
00:43:23
fun. And so she's always had the sort of
00:43:25
adventurous sort of u mindset. And while
00:43:28
close to her family, I wouldn't say the
00:43:29
homesick piece would come in. And so,
00:43:31
you know, we're always a flight away
00:43:33
sort of our mindset. And the parents
00:43:35
>> parents were at that point relatively
00:43:37
young. And so the risk of of of
00:43:40
losing one of our parents while away was
00:43:42
was was lower than what it is probably
00:43:44
now.
00:43:45
>> So we thought this is this is the
00:43:46
chance. And so yeah, we we we had some
00:43:49
fun along the way. Uh we both worked
00:43:51
very hard. She worked everywhere we went
00:43:52
actually uh which in in a lot of cases
00:43:54
is not easy for a spouse and certainly
00:43:56
some of those Middle Eastern countries
00:43:57
but she worked everywhere and had some
00:43:59
wonderful jobs and still have some
00:44:01
wonderful friends actually she's built
00:44:02
and met along the way from some of the
00:44:04
jobs that she had unfortunately for her
00:44:06
they were a little bit transient and so
00:44:08
uh but as she if she had waved the flag
00:44:10
at the time and said no we're going to
00:44:11
stay here and we're going to knuckle
00:44:13
down we we would have done that but
00:44:15
>> yeah because if she's if she's ever if
00:44:17
home life's ever unhappy it all goes
00:44:19
tits up right big time Yeah. Um,
00:44:22
>> Egypt, January 2011, um, when the
00:44:24
Egyptian revolution went down. Um, what
00:44:27
what was that like for you? What was
00:44:28
that like for her? What what does that
00:44:30
mean in real terms?
00:44:32
>> Look, I I don't want to sound I don't
00:44:34
want to sound flippant about it. um
00:44:36
because it it was a serious situation in
00:44:38
the in the in the Arab Spring, the the
00:44:40
spring uprising and and um the pace in
00:44:44
which Taha Square closed down uh in in
00:44:48
in Cairo, the pace of all that was was
00:44:50
quite severe and to go from we had an
00:44:53
off day. We've been traveling all week
00:44:55
uh throughout Algeria, Morocco, um
00:44:58
Tunisia if I remember correctly uh with
00:45:00
my senior management from from New
00:45:02
Zealand and we had an off day on the
00:45:04
Friday and then we're back into it on
00:45:06
the sad day and traveling around Egypt
00:45:08
and we're off down to parts of the
00:45:09
Middle East. So I I recall sort of
00:45:12
hanging out by the pool. um a couple of
00:45:15
other people went off and did some tours
00:45:16
or whatever they did and and the call
00:45:18
came from our local office to say um
00:45:20
things are going to heating up here. Um
00:45:24
and after the the morning prayers in Tah
00:45:27
Square, there's going to be sort of a
00:45:28
protest and so you might want to be off
00:45:29
the road by by 11:00. It's like, well,
00:45:31
I'm sitting by the pool. I'm not going
00:45:32
anywhere. It's 45 degrees or whatever it
00:45:35
was. I got I got a a cold drink and
00:45:37
Coca-Cola, unfortunately, in that those
00:45:39
places. But anyway, I'm not going
00:45:41
anywhere. Uh and and probably I'm I'm
00:45:44
going to make up the numbers now, but
00:45:45
between 11 and sort of 3:00, all
00:45:47
communication was gone. Uh no phones uh
00:45:51
in and out. All as you had on the TV was
00:45:53
a bit of CNN or BBC to watch to see what
00:45:55
was happening down the road, but there
00:45:56
was no communication, no landlines in
00:45:58
the hotel.
00:46:00
>> Um and word was getting out that they
00:46:01
were going to lock down the whole
00:46:02
country at 6 p.m. that night. And so it
00:46:04
sort of got a little bit uh tense uh to
00:46:07
a point. But again, I go back to the
00:46:09
point, I don't want to sound flippant.
00:46:10
when you live in the Middle East, you
00:46:12
you're sort of immune to a little bit.
00:46:14
The stuff happens, you know, and you
00:46:16
know, I was in I was in Saudi Arabia
00:46:17
when when the US embassy got bombed over
00:46:19
the back fence in the hotel. And it's
00:46:21
not very nice and in fact, it's terrible
00:46:23
and terrible for the people that are
00:46:24
involved in that. But yeah, there's an
00:46:27
element of adventure as long as you keep
00:46:28
yourself, you know, directly away from
00:46:31
it. Um but but I'll do I'll always look
00:46:34
after myself and my family and those
00:46:36
that I'm traveling with. But um
00:46:38
you know I didn't I I never I never
00:46:40
panicked. I never worried and I just
00:46:42
thought you know I'm in the airport. I'm
00:46:44
in the safest place probably. I got
00:46:46
myself to to a car airport and uh
00:46:49
whenever a flight leaves we'll be
00:46:51
>> and you know I got home on a day or two
00:46:53
later and and I walked on the door and
00:46:56
my wife was in the same boat and she was
00:46:58
I knew you'd come home. You know if it
00:47:01
goes really bad it goes really bad but
00:47:03
but you know I couldn't get in touch
00:47:04
with you. you can't why do you sleep on
00:47:05
something you can't control? There's an
00:47:07
element of that.
00:47:08
>> Um and so yes, it probably does sound a
00:47:10
bit flippant, but I but I don't mean it
00:47:11
to be, but you just you just learn to be
00:47:14
a bit more adaptable in those
00:47:16
situations.
00:47:17
>> No, it makes sense. I suppose like you
00:47:18
see the images on the news here and they
00:47:20
they they look alarming and but if you
00:47:22
if you're out of that sort of
00:47:24
>> hot spot, you're complet blissfully
00:47:26
unaware to what's going on.
00:47:27
>> Yeah. and and and you know I'm I'm sure
00:47:30
there were there were um [gasps]
00:47:33
you know tourists and and the like that
00:47:34
were sort of caught up in it but you
00:47:36
know it was it was it was an uprising
00:47:37
against sort of the regime that was
00:47:39
there and you know I wasn't the one down
00:47:40
in the in in the square waving flags and
00:47:43
and chanting against the the head of the
00:47:45
state at the time and so I felt an
00:47:47
element of of of safety from that
00:47:49
perspective. Um, but yeah, it was it was
00:47:53
interesting trying to get in on on
00:47:54
flights and there was, you know, people
00:47:56
panicking and those sort of things, but
00:47:57
yeah, just roll with it a bit.
00:48:01
>> So, you become um interim CEO, but are
00:48:04
you the longest serving Fonta CEO now or
00:48:07
are you just behind the previous?
00:48:08
>> Yeah, I don't you don't know. I don't
00:48:09
know actually. It's a it's a good
00:48:11
question. Um,
00:48:13
>> yeah,
00:48:13
>> I think the previous guy it was similar
00:48:14
length of time.
00:48:15
>> Yeah. Well, similar. Yeah. Yeah. Late
00:48:17
late to experience now. Yeah. So you you
00:48:19
become um interim CEO and from what I
00:48:22
can gather there's like a global a
00:48:24
global recruitment search.
00:48:26
>> Do you when you're interim CEO like are
00:48:28
you are you doing everything you can
00:48:30
putting your best foot forward or do you
00:48:32
do you think you're just there for a
00:48:34
>> Yeah. It's it's an interesting
00:48:36
interesting story actually in itself.
00:48:38
And so,
00:48:40
you know, I don't want to go back too
00:48:42
far into sort of some of the dark days
00:48:43
of of the co, but we sort of lost our
00:48:45
way a little bit um back in sort of 17
00:48:49
18 or thereabouts. And so, you know, uh
00:48:52
when I say lost our way, we'd made some
00:48:53
some large investments that hadn't paid
00:48:57
off ultimately. And so, our farmers were
00:49:00
were paying the price of that,
00:49:01
financially paying the price of that.
00:49:03
But it got to a point where Teao had had
00:49:06
announced his his resignation. he was he
00:49:08
was going to leave and I can't remember
00:49:09
what sort of timeline he given it but
00:49:10
call it call it six or eight months he
00:49:12
decided he was going to leave leave the
00:49:14
cooperative um and uh but sort of in
00:49:18
that intervening period you didn't sort
00:49:19
of see a lot of them he spent quite a
00:49:20
bit of time I think up in Europe and
00:49:22
spending time with his with his family
00:49:24
so at the same time as the cop was
00:49:26
starting to sort of lose its way but our
00:49:28
leader had sort of was not as visible as
00:49:30
probably what what we would have liked
00:49:33
>> uh and so I was on the leadership team
00:49:35
and we were asked at the time anyone
00:49:36
that wants to apply for the role on the
00:49:38
leadership team is is obviously able to,
00:49:40
but we're also going to undertake a
00:49:42
global search. Um, and I I decided
00:49:45
that's not for me. I I have no interest
00:49:47
at this point in time. I'm I felt like I
00:49:49
was um still a lot to do in my existing
00:49:52
role um uh in in on the leadership team,
00:49:55
but but but still a lot a lot to do. So,
00:49:58
I didn't apply for the job and I I
00:50:00
understand a couple of my my colleagues
00:50:02
uh did. Uh and then unfortunately our
00:50:04
chair at the time uh got sick uh got got
00:50:07
quite sick and and uh and passed away
00:50:09
relatively quickly uh thereafter. Um and
00:50:12
so they had this interim chair come in
00:50:14
who who I was very close to um and and
00:50:17
again another strong mentor of mine over
00:50:19
the years actually. So he was um he um
00:50:22
he stepped in and and they went off to a
00:50:25
trip to Europe, the full board. And I
00:50:27
remember taking him aside at the just
00:50:29
before they flew out and he was going to
00:50:31
lead this delegation up up to Europe. Um
00:50:34
and he also had a couple of people he
00:50:36
was final interviews for in in Europe
00:50:38
for for the CE ro. And I took him aside
00:50:40
and said, "John, look at the end of the
00:50:42
day, the this is your issue as as as the
00:50:44
board, but as an employee and someone
00:50:47
that's got great passion for this
00:50:48
cooperative after how many years I've
00:50:50
been there at that point in time, we are
00:50:52
losing our way a bit." And we've lost a
00:50:53
leader, please do not come back and tell
00:50:56
me you haven't recruited a CE. Just
00:50:58
please help us out. And and it was as a
00:51:00
as a mate, you know,
00:51:02
>> and and there was nothing in that that
00:51:04
was about come back and appoint me. As I
00:51:06
say, I hadn't applied for the job. I had
00:51:08
no interest in it. quite quite frankly.
00:51:10
Um
00:51:11
anyway, he came back and um came back a
00:51:14
week or two two later and and um and he
00:51:18
ringed me and I know he had a meeting
00:51:20
that morning with a politician who was
00:51:23
um still a politician now and is in the
00:51:25
headlines quite a bit mentioning Fonta's
00:51:27
name. I won't say his name, but he had a
00:51:30
meeting with him on something completely
00:51:31
random. Uh and I knew he had a meeting
00:51:34
and he rang me and said, "Miles, can you
00:51:36
come downstairs? I need to have a catch
00:51:37
up with you." And I thought I knew he
00:51:39
had a meeting with with this um this um
00:51:42
MP or whatever. I don't know what he was
00:51:43
probably deputy prime minister as well
00:51:45
at back at the time. But put that aside.
00:51:47
And and I thought, "Oh god, what's
00:51:49
happened here? There's going to be a
00:51:50
bomb dropped here." And he took me for a
00:51:52
walk and he said, "You might want to sit
00:51:54
down." I thought, "This is serious now."
00:51:55
And he said, "Um, we didn't we didn't
00:51:58
recruit when I was in Europe." And I
00:52:00
said, "John, [ __ ] mate. We you know,
00:52:03
two weeks or week or 10 days has passed
00:52:04
and things things are still not great.
00:52:06
we need we need some leadership here.
00:52:08
And he said, I want to give you the job.
00:52:10
And I was like, what? And it was it was
00:52:13
sort of this um
00:52:15
there'd be no indication that was where
00:52:17
his thinking was. You know, I hadn't
00:52:19
read the tea leaves or or picked up any
00:52:21
signals.
00:52:22
>> Um but it it came from this place of
00:52:26
[ __ ] we need a bit of stability. You've
00:52:28
done your 20 odd years or 18 years at
00:52:30
that point. you've got some credibility
00:52:32
amongst your peers who are also starting
00:52:35
to feel that we're losing losing their
00:52:37
way, but you you built some credibility
00:52:39
by the farmers who also feel like
00:52:40
they're losing their way, but just can
00:52:42
you step into this role for for a few
00:52:44
months? And so again, it was home to
00:52:48
[laughter] to my wife and what do you
00:52:50
think of this? And she was almost as
00:52:51
shocked as I was. Um, but there's this
00:52:54
sort of overwhelming sense of I felt
00:52:57
obligation that we' had that damn good
00:53:00
career up until that point where I'd had
00:53:04
a lot of fun. I'd done the hard yards,
00:53:06
but but I'd had a lot of fun doing what
00:53:08
I'd done around the world. And [snorts]
00:53:10
I felt this sense of obligation given
00:53:12
he'd been unsuccessful in the
00:53:14
recruitment overseas. He didn't give it
00:53:16
to to a couple of my peers. Um, and so I
00:53:19
felt, well, I almost had no choice. I
00:53:22
felt this sense of obligation. So I
00:53:23
said, "Yeah, let's give it a go." So
00:53:26
that was August. I I think it was August
00:53:28
and it was probably before Christmas.
00:53:31
I took him aside and said, "So John, um,
00:53:34
you know, am I getting a CV ready for
00:53:36
you? Do we have an interview after
00:53:38
Christmas? Do or have you found someone
00:53:40
or when's this the recruitment process?"
00:53:43
And he sort of looked at me and said,
00:53:44
"What are you asking?" And I said,
00:53:47
"Well, I just need to know when when
00:53:49
you're into this." He said, "No, no, we
00:53:51
haven't started. I have no intention of
00:53:53
starting it." So, right, [laughter]
00:53:55
right. So, that was another bit of a
00:53:56
bolt that I had. Again, I maybe I second
00:53:59
guessed myself or I doubted myself, but
00:54:01
I just hadn't I hadn't ever thought that
00:54:04
that was the long-term uh uh thinking.
00:54:06
So, again, that was another conversation
00:54:08
at home and and here we are.
00:54:11
um not as easy as the first one I I
00:54:14
might say, but um in that relatively
00:54:17
short period of time, I felt that we'd
00:54:21
started to make some progress, you know,
00:54:23
that that I don't I don't want to sound
00:54:26
sound um um sound like I'm scaring
00:54:29
scaring anyone back at the time, but but
00:54:30
we were we we were we were in rough
00:54:32
shape
00:54:33
>> as as a cooperative,
00:54:35
>> and I [snorts] wouldn't say we were sort
00:54:36
of destined for for for the for the
00:54:38
exit, but if we didn't do some things
00:54:39
differently,
00:54:40
um you know it wasn't a bright future
00:54:42
for the cult but it was the way I felt
00:54:44
and and in a relatively short period of
00:54:46
time we'd started to make some decisions
00:54:47
and we'd broken the back of some of
00:54:48
those big decisions that we needed to do
00:54:50
and I felt like we got on in the right
00:54:53
place and so uh that was that was
00:54:55
probably one of the conversations where
00:54:58
um I was asking my wife more so than
00:55:00
agreeing with her and saying hey we've
00:55:03
got some stuff here can you give me a
00:55:05
chance at it and we'll give it a go for
00:55:07
a year or two and you know it's either
00:55:10
we're either on the right path for
00:55:11
success or it's going to crash and burn,
00:55:13
excuse me, crash and burn, which will be
00:55:15
no different from where we are sort of
00:55:16
today.
00:55:18
>> And so, uh, it wasn't wasn't as easy,
00:55:20
but it was like, yep, that's what you
00:55:21
want to do. Let's let's give it a crack.
00:55:23
And so, um, and unfortunately or
00:55:25
fortunately, depending on which way you
00:55:26
look at it, you know,
00:55:28
>> we had a sort of a 2-year-old son at
00:55:31
that point. So, it was that was not
00:55:33
easy. That was probably that was
00:55:34
probably one of the bigger decisions is
00:55:35
that you know you're going to forego a
00:55:37
heck of a lot in the next one two five
00:55:40
seven years um as a result and so
00:55:43
>> that was probably the biggest decision
00:55:44
that we collectively made there.
00:55:47
>> Yes. So I recorded a podcast last
00:55:48
weekend with um Rod Drury the founder of
00:55:50
Zero and his youngest daughter was born
00:55:53
the year that he started Zero and um
00:55:56
>> he he he was reflecting on his parenting
00:55:58
and he said he said I was a good dad but
00:56:00
I was never there.
00:56:01
>> Yeah. and
00:56:02
>> you can't you can't get the time back.
00:56:04
>> What does um yeah, what does an average
00:56:05
day look like for you?
00:56:07
>> Yeah, so look, when when I'm in New
00:56:09
Zealand or more specifically when I'm in
00:56:12
Oakuckland, um you know, I really uh try
00:56:15
hard to uh to drop him at the at the bus
00:56:18
stop. Uh so that gives us, you know, 5
00:56:20
minutes in the car, so it's not long,
00:56:22
but but there's there's a few minutes in
00:56:23
the morning where we chat. Uh and I'm
00:56:26
I'm trying to be home by 6:00. And so
00:56:28
that's a decent amount of time with him
00:56:30
and not my wife as well every night. So
00:56:32
I try to do that. There's obviously a
00:56:34
bit of work at night that comes and
00:56:35
goes. Um um but unfortunately I'm not in
00:56:38
Oakuckland as much as I'd like. So um
00:56:41
when I'm there, I like I like to be
00:56:43
there, but at the same time, you know,
00:56:45
I'm I'm 50 with a with a 12y old, not 30
00:56:48
with a 12-year-old. And so, um, you
00:56:51
know, when you you get off a plane at 5
00:56:53
in the morning and he wants to kick the
00:56:55
ball around, you know, you okay,
00:56:58
[laughter]
00:56:58
>> sure, sure, let's go. Um, you don't you
00:57:01
know, you got to say yes. You got to say
00:57:03
yes, but it but it's it's it's
00:57:04
difficult, you know, and so they're the
00:57:07
things that I struggle with the most is
00:57:08
that I'd love to give more time. Um
00:57:12
um and and again and and my wife, but
00:57:15
you know, you you know, it's uh one of
00:57:16
the the trade-offs that that ultimately
00:57:18
made, but at the same time, it's it's a
00:57:20
trade-off that we've made not forever as
00:57:22
well.
00:57:23
>> Do you have like a a specific morning
00:57:25
routine? What is your morning I know you
00:57:26
like running, eh?
00:57:27
>> Yeah, I I do like running. Um
00:57:29
>> I I heard um I heard that you you run
00:57:30
and then when whenever there's a hill,
00:57:32
you um you generally like make a phone
00:57:34
call.
00:57:34
>> Yeah, there's always walk up the hill
00:57:35
and do some business.
00:57:36
>> There's there's a bit of that actually.
00:57:38
Um, look, I do like running. In fact, I
00:57:40
run I run sort of most of my life. When
00:57:42
I say run, I mean I plot. I'm I'm no I'm
00:57:44
no athlete at at all. Uh, but I enjoy
00:57:47
it. That's a way I sort of clear clear
00:57:49
my head a little bit. Um, and and it's
00:57:52
usually uh there's usually a bit of
00:57:54
music or something on. It's not very
00:57:55
often I'll I'll do I'll do too many work
00:57:57
things. That said, you when there is a
00:58:00
hill, maybe there's an excuse to make a
00:58:01
phone call. Uh, so I do I do I do enjoy
00:58:03
a bit of that. That's not normally a
00:58:05
morning thing. that's normally sort of
00:58:06
sometimes through throughout the day and
00:58:08
it's not as regular as it once once was.
00:58:10
So, I'd like to sort of get back into
00:58:11
that a little bit, come come off the
00:58:12
back of a
00:58:13
>> of a of a couple of little knee injuries
00:58:15
last year, but so sort of recovering my
00:58:16
way back from that. But, uh, so I do
00:58:18
enjoy I do enjoy that. But, my morning
00:58:20
really is is get up, as I say, spend a
00:58:23
little bit of time with with a little
00:58:24
fella. Um there's always something
00:58:26
that's popped up overnight that might
00:58:27
need a couple of minutes as I'm walking
00:58:29
down the stairs or whatever just to keep
00:58:30
an eye on things, but but generally uh
00:58:33
spend a bit of time with the family and
00:58:34
then and then straight to the office and
00:58:36
and and add it by 8:00.
00:58:38
>> Is it hard to not spoil him?
00:58:41
>> It is actually.
00:58:42
>> Yeah. Now that that is and and again
00:58:45
knowing uh my background as I say not
00:58:48
that I knew it at the time not not
00:58:51
having much um you know and it instilled
00:58:54
I think some pretty good values in me.
00:58:55
I'd like to instill that in him, but
00:58:57
she's on the sucker for that stuff. And
00:58:58
it's just, you know, there's a a new
00:59:00
little gadget or something funny that I
00:59:02
see in the airport that's, you know,
00:59:04
it's and and my wife's [snorts] terrible
00:59:06
at, you know, she she's don't do this.
00:59:08
You know, I try not to, but um, you
00:59:11
know, it's hard. You know, I, you know,
00:59:14
one one son and and um,
00:59:17
as much enjoyment for me as it is him,
00:59:18
but I know it's not great in the long
00:59:20
term, so I need to watch that. Well,
00:59:22
again, you and I are similar age, and
00:59:23
the toys that we had when we were kids
00:59:24
were pretty shitty to be fair. You see
00:59:26
some of the advancements and the toys
00:59:29
now that are controlled by your phone or
00:59:30
whatever. It's amazing. It is.
00:59:32
>> So, the child in all of us, I think
00:59:34
>> I know to get those things. Are you
00:59:36
familiar with the term imposter
00:59:37
syndrome? Was that something for you um
00:59:40
in the early days? I I know you you'd
00:59:41
cut your teeth in this company. You'd
00:59:42
been there 18 years before you got the
00:59:43
CEO job, but are you sitting there some
00:59:45
days thinking, "Oh my god, I'm going to
00:59:47
be I'm going to be found out."
00:59:50
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:59:51
Yeah, most days. [laughter]
00:59:54
No, not um
00:59:56
you know, without sounding arrogant,
00:59:58
less so now than I did.
00:59:59
>> Uh less so now than I did. And so um
01:00:03
while while I never shied away from if
01:00:06
someone asked me specifically, I I I
01:00:09
never fronted up to the fact that I
01:00:11
didn't go to university unless someone
01:00:12
asked me directly. I I just felt it was
01:00:15
how did you get that job? You didn't go
01:00:16
to university. Do you lie on your CV or
01:00:18
something? It was just something that I
01:00:19
felt, you know, you know, I felt like I
01:00:22
I didn't quite achieve what a lot of my
01:00:25
peers did. And so, how on earth did I
01:00:27
get to where I I did? As I say, that
01:00:29
sort of evolved a little bit of late.
01:00:31
And again, you know, again, I take
01:00:32
myself back to some of those those
01:00:34
managers um back when I was a sort of
01:00:36
middle manager that took me under their
01:00:37
wing and realized I didn't have that
01:00:39
realized it was a bit of an insecurity
01:00:40
that I probably had and uh and so I did
01:00:43
a lot of sort of extra mural stuff
01:00:44
through sort of, you know, Harvard and
01:00:46
and and SED and some of those things. So
01:00:48
th those things were helpful. Um but
01:00:51
that was an element I guess of of
01:00:53
imposter syndrome. But as I say, I've
01:00:54
sort of
01:00:56
>> I've got gotten through that a little
01:00:57
bit of late. [laughter]
01:00:58
>> It's funny that you should say that. I
01:00:59
had um Jason, do you know Jason Paris?
01:01:01
>> Yes, I do.
01:01:02
>> Yeah. I had him on the podcast and he
01:01:03
had the same sort of thing with his
01:01:05
relationship with being uh not having a
01:01:07
university education. Almost like a
01:01:09
sense of like a like a dirty little
01:01:10
secret or a bit of like a sense of shame
01:01:12
or something.
01:01:13
>> Well, I guess it's you know, we're of
01:01:15
that age. Um Jason's probably slightly
01:01:17
younger than me, but but but we're of
01:01:18
that age where um I think everyone in
01:01:22
the senior roles, excuse me, everyone in
01:01:23
the senior roles, you know, had degrees.
01:01:25
You know, you go back prior to that, it
01:01:26
was not, you know, you had older people
01:01:28
when I was growing up that didn't have
01:01:30
degrees. Then you came to to an era
01:01:32
where everyone of our sort of era had
01:01:34
degrees. And I think we're evolving now
01:01:35
to the other way where a degree is not
01:01:38
not not so as important as probably it
01:01:39
once was for, you know, it's more the
01:01:42
experience and the gig economy and those
01:01:43
sort of things. But I think we, you
01:01:45
know, the three of us, if we can put us
01:01:47
in that category, grew up in a stage
01:01:48
where that was mostly the the done
01:01:51
thing, I think. So, yeah, there was a
01:01:52
bit of, I wouldn't say a shame or
01:01:54
secret, but yeah, unless someone said to
01:01:56
me, what what school did you go to, you
01:01:59
know, um, you know, what what what
01:02:01
university, it was like I didn't go.
01:02:04
>> How have you changed as a leader in the
01:02:06
past seven years, do you think?
01:02:09
>> Um, you you learn to let go a bit. You
01:02:12
know, as I say, when you run an
01:02:13
organization of of our size and scale,
01:02:15
you you um you you have to be prepared
01:02:19
to understand the views of others and
01:02:21
and you know, when when there's a a
01:02:24
compelling case put forward, you know,
01:02:26
you might want to challenge and ask the
01:02:27
right questions, but you've also got to
01:02:28
trust your people who've come up and
01:02:30
done the right analysis on the way
01:02:31
through. Now, the buck stops with me, so
01:02:33
I'm not not blind to the fact that if
01:02:35
things go bad, um you know, from a
01:02:37
board's perspective or a shareholders
01:02:39
perspective, they're going to be looked
01:02:39
for me for Y. So, so I'm aware of that,
01:02:42
but you you know, relying on your people
01:02:44
more to to to do that. Um, you know, a
01:02:47
bit of bit of a cliche, I know, but but
01:02:50
the diversity of thought around
01:02:51
leadership table, it you know, that that
01:02:53
was not my mo growing up. You know, my
01:02:56
my my teams
01:02:58
my teams when I grew up were all just
01:02:59
clones of me. H hardworking um um get on
01:03:05
and and and get it done. you know, you
01:03:08
go back in history, probably blo if I
01:03:10
look at it,
01:03:12
>> um, where, you know, the more senior you
01:03:14
get, and as I say, it's a bit of a
01:03:15
cliche, but that diversity of thought
01:03:17
around a leadership table, it is so much
01:03:19
more powerful, uh, in in the long run.
01:03:22
It's harder at the time. I can I'll be
01:03:24
honest and say that's really hard
01:03:25
sometimes when you've got a whole bunch
01:03:27
of, you know, thoughts that come from a
01:03:30
different lens and trying to then say,
01:03:31
"Right, that's all great. Now, we're as
01:03:33
a leadership team, how we're going to
01:03:34
take that and move forward." uh not not
01:03:37
easy from that perspective. Um but
01:03:40
ultimately you get a better outcome. So
01:03:41
that's probably a bit that's really
01:03:43
grown in the last Yeah, I wouldn't say
01:03:44
just seven years, probably the last 10
01:03:46
10 years or so. Um
01:03:49
um your resilience despite maybe having
01:03:52
that, you know, for a long time, you
01:03:54
know, maybe that's grown as well. You
01:03:56
you um
01:03:57
>> you have to be, don't you?
01:03:58
>> Yeah, you have to be. you know, all
01:04:00
farmers have my email address and and
01:04:02
and a number of them have my have my
01:04:05
phone number and um and you know, they
01:04:09
own us, you know, so they they feel it's
01:04:11
their right and I guess it is their
01:04:13
right to to um to ask me or tell me
01:04:16
what's so
01:04:18
>> curious about the the tell you
01:04:19
component. Any stand out as um some of
01:04:22
the most savage correspondents or
01:04:24
conversations?
01:04:24
>> There is and I won't I won't name them.
01:04:26
Um but but there's there's also there's
01:04:28
an element of timing in this as well and
01:04:30
you can almost see when the the second
01:04:32
glass of whiskey might be getting poured
01:04:33
and like bing it's like right [laughter]
01:04:36
>> he's had another email after 9 years is
01:04:39
and and know knowing that and I say he
01:04:42
cuz there's a couple of people that come
01:04:42
to my mind and knowing that that he's up
01:04:45
at 4:30 to milk again it's like gee he's
01:04:47
doing it tough. Um
01:04:48
>> is there a recidivist?
01:04:50
>> Oh no there's one or two that that might
01:04:53
might have jumped out. That said,
01:04:54
they're the first also to come out with
01:04:55
a comments like you opened up with that,
01:04:57
hey, you're on the right track. So, you
01:04:59
know, the they have a crack at you when
01:05:01
it when and and ultimately when it's
01:05:03
due, but at the same time, they uh
01:05:05
they'll they'll they'll recognize that.
01:05:07
So, but but it's having the there's a
01:05:10
fine line here. I I find Dom a really
01:05:12
fine line actually of having this
01:05:15
resilience cuz I could look at that
01:05:16
email. In fact, you could see the name
01:05:18
pop up and delete it on the spot. It's
01:05:20
like why even bother? It's come in at
01:05:21
59. I know exactly what it's going to
01:05:23
say given the announcement that we came
01:05:24
out with 5 hours ago. Delete, move on.
01:05:29
But I think as soon as you do that,
01:05:31
you've lost touch. You've you've lost
01:05:34
touch with reality.
01:05:36
and and uh and again I'm not going to
01:05:38
compare
01:05:39
myself with with any others but but I've
01:05:42
seen that play out in in sort of
01:05:43
high-profile roles is that you you
01:05:45
become all all-incclusive
01:05:48
and then all of a sudden you become
01:05:52
um I know arrogant or you become the
01:05:54
boss and therefore I've got to this
01:05:55
point and therefore I'm not your view is
01:05:57
nothing to me and so uh and I always
01:06:01
catch myself saying I'm not doing that
01:06:02
and I always read it I still might
01:06:04
delete it Um, but I just want to make
01:06:07
sure am I not losing touch? If there's
01:06:10
some things that are coming through,
01:06:11
there's a theme coming through that I'm
01:06:13
not I'm not picking up either from my
01:06:15
team or myself. Um, you know, farmers
01:06:18
will tell it like it is. And so, um, I
01:06:21
find that really helpful to keep you
01:06:23
level because it be so easy to turn it
01:06:25
away and say, "Hey, I'm the boss. You've
01:06:27
appointed me in this role for a reason.
01:06:29
This is what the answer's going to be."
01:06:31
And I think as soon as I say or think
01:06:32
like that, you might as well hang up
01:06:34
your boots.
01:06:36
Yeah, it's that sense of arrogance, I
01:06:37
guess, when that when that creeps in.
01:06:39
>> But you see it. You see it though.
01:06:41
That's my point is you see it
01:06:42
>> being comfortable or cocky or
01:06:45
>> cocky. I don't I don't know what it is,
01:06:46
but you see it a lot. And I'm I'm only
01:06:49
partway through, but but the the
01:06:51
chairman's lounge book um um the Quantis
01:06:54
one is, you know, it's it's
01:06:56
>> it's quite scary when you read some of
01:06:58
the stuff and and how and again I don't
01:07:01
want to make um a judgment on on on him
01:07:04
directly, but um how he, you know,
01:07:08
seemed to evolve relatively quickly into
01:07:10
having all the answers and and being a
01:07:13
bit more of a dictator in the office.
01:07:14
Now again, it's only one views, one
01:07:15
person's view, but um you know, the day
01:07:19
that I get like that is the day that
01:07:21
that it's time to move on. And that's
01:07:23
where it comes to to my wife. She'll be
01:07:25
the first to tell me. I'm I'm sure comes
01:07:28
to my mates. Um who probably don't even
01:07:30
know what I do actually most of the
01:07:31
time. So So maybe they'll tell me, maybe
01:07:33
they won't. Um but then you then you
01:07:36
couple your close peers in your office,
01:07:37
you know, and and making sure those
01:07:39
people are there to,
01:07:42
>> you know, just pull you into line. um um
01:07:45
or or more importantly give you a slap,
01:07:47
>> you know, if you're really out of line.
01:07:48
So
01:07:48
>> Oh, that's cool. But you need to create
01:07:50
that culture where they where they know
01:07:52
they're comfortable to be brutally
01:07:53
honest with you.
01:07:54
>> Yeah.
01:07:55
>> Yeah. But but I think it comes through
01:07:57
time.
01:07:57
>> Yeah.
01:07:58
>> So, and actually it's one of the
01:08:00
questions that I get asked a lot is, you
01:08:01
know, how did you
01:08:03
>> and without sort of um talking too much
01:08:05
about the past, you know, how did you
01:08:06
change the culture and get everyone sort
01:08:08
of head in the right direction? And I
01:08:10
almost say again a little bit
01:08:11
flippantly. It was probably the easiest
01:08:12
job. And I say that because it was
01:08:15
always there. You know, we've been a
01:08:17
cooperative now for 152 years. Okay,
01:08:19
we've only been Fonta for for 25 odd.
01:08:21
But for for 150 years, we we're we're a
01:08:25
farmingbased organization who thinks
01:08:27
long, you know, long term. We think
01:08:29
think intergenerational. We think about
01:08:32
internationally about our customers and
01:08:33
our markets. We we're putting nutrition
01:08:35
in the mouths of vulnerable people. you
01:08:37
know, all those things build a culture
01:08:39
of what it's like to work in in Fonta.
01:08:41
[snorts] Um, may we may have gone a
01:08:44
little bit off pie decade or so ago for
01:08:47
me to then to be appointed in the role
01:08:49
was not hard to scratch the surface and
01:08:51
say, "Right, who's who's there?" And and
01:08:54
it was
01:08:55
this overwhelming sense of, "Hey, we've
01:08:57
got this. We we've got your back, Miles.
01:08:59
We're coming." You know, and and so I
01:09:01
say flippantly, it was easy because it
01:09:03
was always there. Now, you can't always
01:09:06
rely on that. you got to, you know, keep
01:09:07
building and, you know, things evolve
01:09:09
and those sort of things. But it's it's
01:09:11
one of the things that, uh, I, you know,
01:09:13
it's what drew me to the industry in
01:09:15
2000.
01:09:16
>> Um, and and and it's it's always been
01:09:19
there. It just maybe lost its way a
01:09:20
little bit.
01:09:21
>> Yeah. You you mentioned um the time
01:09:23
frame 150 years. Just a second ago, I've
01:09:25
got a quote from you here.
01:09:26
>> Uh, my ambition is to set Fonta up for
01:09:29
success for the next 150 years. Yeah.
01:09:31
Can you can you explain that? How does
01:09:33
that work when the world's changing so
01:09:34
fast? like 150 years ago would have been
01:09:36
what like 1875.
01:09:38
>> Yeah.
01:09:39
>> Yeah.
01:09:40
>> 150 years from now like Yeah.
01:09:41
>> Yeah. Well, it is it's a really
01:09:43
interesting question, but you know, I
01:09:45
was in Singapore last week and I went to
01:09:47
this this seminar with Bloomberg and of
01:09:50
course the the the talk of of the couple
01:09:52
of days was all around um the tar Trump
01:09:55
tariffs and Ukraine and Gazer and you
01:09:58
know all the things that are occupying
01:09:59
everyone's minds and they are they're
01:10:02
they're ugly. M
01:10:03
>> but I also think back to someone in my
01:10:06
job. Okay, we're a different
01:10:07
organization back in the day, but as a
01:10:10
dairy industry, someone led our
01:10:12
organization through World War I.
01:10:15
>> Someone led our organization through the
01:10:17
Great Depression. Someone led our
01:10:18
organization organizations through World
01:10:20
War II. So, yeah, these are big, ugly,
01:10:23
gnarly things, but we've survived you
01:10:27
arguably bigger things. don't want to
01:10:28
downplay the importance of what's going
01:10:30
on at the moment, but um and so I look
01:10:32
at that and go, you know, we just need
01:10:34
to be we need to be um nimble enough to
01:10:37
navigate our way through this stuff
01:10:39
>> because we do we need to be here in 150
01:10:41
years because it's not they're not
01:10:43
faceless shareholders that go on to
01:10:45
shies and press buy now or sell now. As
01:10:48
I say, these are families that are
01:10:51
second, third, fourth generation farms
01:10:53
that are handed down to children and
01:10:54
children and children and will have
01:10:57
their sights set on handing down to
01:10:58
their children and children and
01:10:59
children. And if there's some idiot that
01:11:02
he see that sets the wrong direction and
01:11:04
takes it off the rails and before you
01:11:06
know it, it's no longer an industry.
01:11:09
Yeah, I reckon I'd lose some sleep on
01:11:10
that. [laughter]
01:11:11
>> And so when I talk about 150 years, it's
01:11:13
it's because we're inter we've been
01:11:14
intergenerational to this point. we've
01:11:16
survived some really ugly things that
01:11:18
have gone on against us in the global
01:11:20
markets. Um, and it's our job to make
01:11:23
sure we're nimble enough to navigate
01:11:24
that whatever gets thrown at us.
01:11:27
[gasps]
01:11:28
>> Yeah, that must must be tricky though
01:11:30
cuz I've got no idea what you actually
01:11:31
do for for a job, but I'm guessing like
01:11:33
from your perspect there's there's
01:11:34
decisions you could make now that would
01:11:36
be popular and would look good for you
01:11:37
or look good on your LinkedIn page and
01:11:38
then there's um decisions that you make,
01:11:40
[clears throat]
01:11:41
>> excuse me, that aren't going to play out
01:11:42
too long after you're gone.
01:11:43
>> Yeah.
01:11:44
>> Um, yeah, that's got to be tricky. Yeah,
01:11:45
it's it's tricky, but again, you don't
01:11:47
you don't um
01:11:50
again back back to that Joe Ashton book,
01:11:52
you don't I don't think you go into it
01:11:53
on the basis of what your LinkedIn page
01:11:55
looks like or what you get paid or those
01:11:56
sort of things because if you did um
01:11:59
it's probably not the role for you.
01:12:01
There's probably jobs that give give
01:12:03
better salaries or or better cudos or
01:12:05
whatever it is if that's what you drive
01:12:06
you. Um, and so you you recognize that
01:12:10
you have to set it up for the long term
01:12:11
and and of course, you know, having a
01:12:13
governance structure, a board of
01:12:14
directors that has a vast majority of
01:12:17
farmers on there, they they they
01:12:19
absolutely think it in intergenerational
01:12:22
even if there was some rogue management
01:12:23
that decided not to. So that that that
01:12:26
that's an important element of of the
01:12:27
control that you have in play as well.
01:12:29
No, no. We you have to you have to think
01:12:31
long term, but but you know, things get
01:12:34
thrown at you that that you don't quite
01:12:35
expect, but you just, you know, making
01:12:37
sure that the the base is resilient
01:12:39
enough to manage that.
01:12:41
>> Uh, one of the big things in 2025 was um
01:12:44
the $4.2 billion deal um to sell
01:12:47
mainland and anchor. Um,
01:12:50
is is that the highest amount of money
01:12:52
you've ever talked about in one?
01:12:53
>> Yeah. No question. [laughter]
01:12:55
>> Yeah, it's eye watering, right?
01:12:57
>> It is. Well, you know that that it is,
01:13:00
but we talk of um
01:13:03
you know, we talk of 44.2 billion for
01:13:05
that part of the business, which is
01:13:06
which is important, but again,
01:13:09
you know, I oversee a collection of
01:13:11
about $60 billion of assets.
01:13:13
>> Mhm.
01:13:14
>> On farm,
01:13:15
>> you follow me? And so when we talk about
01:13:17
we're a cooperative and sorry we're
01:13:19
we're a corporate of of this size and
01:13:21
scale in reality I'm I'm I'm I'm helping
01:13:25
or supporting all these own individual
01:13:28
CEOs that run effectively $60 billion of
01:13:31
of capital. So so yes it's a hell of a
01:13:33
number. Don't get me wrong, but um the
01:13:36
the bigger number for me is is if I wake
01:13:39
up in 10 and 15 20 years time and I'm
01:13:41
I'm I'm sitting with my feet up
01:13:42
somewhere and that $60 billion is half
01:13:46
as worth half as what it is today
01:13:47
because of the decisions I made. That's
01:13:49
the thing that that that worries me more
01:13:51
u which is part of the decision why we
01:13:53
made to to to devest. I I truly believe
01:13:55
it's the right thing to do to set our
01:13:57
cooperative up for the long term.
01:14:00
>> Do do you sleep okay?
01:14:02
sometimes um generally.
01:14:05
>> Yeah. How do you like the It just seems
01:14:07
like it's um an unimaginable amount of
01:14:09
pressure and some really big decisions
01:14:11
that affect a lot of people.
01:14:12
>> Yeah. Um generally I do, but but not um
01:14:16
I wouldn't say it's universal. Um I'm
01:14:19
fortunate or unfortunate enough to spend
01:14:21
a lot of time uh international and so I
01:14:24
really take advantage of those those
01:14:26
12-hour flights and try and get get a
01:14:28
decent amount of sleep on the flights.
01:14:29
Um so yeah I mean but again it comes
01:14:32
back to that you know resilience and how
01:14:34
you sort of lean into it and it comes
01:14:36
with the territory but no I realize the
01:14:38
decisions that I make have have have
01:14:40
huge impacts not just for our own
01:14:42
shareholders our own people uh but but
01:14:44
for New Zealand as a whole and so that's
01:14:46
that's I'm acutely aware of that.
01:14:48
>> Uh you one thing I've read about you
01:14:50
your philosophy seems to revolve around
01:14:52
finding the good in people.
01:14:53
>> Yeah.
01:14:54
>> Um is that always possible?
01:14:57
Um,
01:14:58
>> what percentage of the time is it
01:14:59
possible?
01:15:01
>> Well, well, I think
01:15:03
again it sound it sound maybe sound a
01:15:05
bit bit weird, but I think there is good
01:15:07
in in everyone and and and I went um I
01:15:13
went on a on a to to a meeting or a tour
01:15:17
of of a couple of the prisons recently.
01:15:20
Um, don't ask me how I end up there, but
01:15:21
I did. I was on the right side of the
01:15:24
[laughter]
01:15:24
I was on the right side of it. But, um,
01:15:27
and just sitting there watching,
01:15:29
observing some of these people, they all
01:15:32
they all,
01:15:34
you know, they're all human beings at
01:15:36
the end of the day. And, you know, I'd
01:15:39
say a fair chunk of them have had a a
01:15:41
fairly rough upbringing to be in the
01:15:43
situation they're in now. But deep down,
01:15:45
all of them have got something in there
01:15:47
somewhere. And so when I when I I don't
01:15:50
know where you pick that up from, but I
01:15:51
do truly believe that there is good in
01:15:53
in everyone somewhere.
01:15:55
Uh it's just it's just not that obvious
01:15:58
in most cases. And when you when you
01:16:00
walk around a prison and saw some of the
01:16:02
the the sites there,
01:16:04
>> sometimes you have to look a bit harder.
01:16:06
>> But but I did I spent I spent some time
01:16:07
talking to some individuals and you
01:16:09
know,
01:16:11
how are you in here? You know, and they
01:16:12
were very open and transparent around
01:16:14
why they're in there and some of the bad
01:16:16
decisions they make. But the fact
01:16:17
they're open and having a conversation
01:16:19
now I was reminded very quickly on the
01:16:21
way out that you know you know he's a
01:16:24
manipulator. He probably just wants to
01:16:26
tell you that so you believe him or
01:16:27
whatever and that's fine. But I felt
01:16:28
there's always something in there when
01:16:30
they when they say some of those things
01:16:32
as well. So
01:16:33
>> maybe that's the optimist in me at the
01:16:34
same time. I don't know
01:16:36
>> what what were you doing in a in a
01:16:37
>> Yeah, I said I said I said not to ask
01:16:39
but um um
01:16:42
there there is there is a long bow to to
01:16:44
to a work question here. you know, we in
01:16:46
in rural New Zealand, uh we um you know,
01:16:50
we we don't always find it easy to
01:16:52
employ people. You know, it's not um you
01:16:55
know, I think about 12,000 of employees
01:16:57
of ours are in are in rural New Zealand
01:17:00
and um and it's not always always easy
01:17:02
to find people. So I thought there might
01:17:03
be an opportunity and then still
01:17:05
thinking about that whether you know
01:17:06
[snorts] some of those lower risk um
01:17:09
inmates uh that that you know they need
01:17:12
a new start in life and uh we may have
01:17:14
some sort of lower skill jobs they can
01:17:16
get themselves into and and and maybe
01:17:18
forge themselves a new pathway. So that
01:17:20
was the thinking and and is I'm still
01:17:21
openminded about that.
01:17:23
>> Well funny you should say that I had a
01:17:25
guest on the podcast earlier this year
01:17:26
called Ben Padawa. Uh I think it was a
01:17:29
finalist for one of the one of the
01:17:30
farmers of the year.
01:17:31
>> I know I know exactly. Yeah.
01:17:33
>> Terrible upbringing, manslaughter charge
01:17:35
at 17. Correct.
01:17:36
>> Um got into farming and um I for what
01:17:39
the prison is, one of the central North
01:17:40
Island ones and farming farming has
01:17:41
changed his life.
01:17:42
>> Yeah. Yeah. So so a number of farms a
01:17:45
number of prisons around the country
01:17:46
have have farms on the back and dairy
01:17:47
farms
01:17:48
>> and so that was part of it, the dairy
01:17:51
farm, but it was more more sort of, you
01:17:52
know, warehousing or or whatever it may
01:17:54
be. But yeah, no, he's he's quite
01:17:56
inspirational and and uh you know, if
01:17:59
there's if there's even one or two
01:18:01
prisoners pick up and and see what what
01:18:03
he's done with his life
01:18:04
>> uh as a result of learning something
01:18:06
new, you know, that that's a great new
01:18:07
story.
01:18:08
>> Yeah. Also inspirational was the the the
01:18:11
farmers that took him on after his um
01:18:13
incarceration cuz he had a couple of
01:18:14
missteps along the way and um there were
01:18:17
there were, you know, people involved
01:18:18
that just didn't give up on him and uh
01:18:20
>> saw in him what he was yet to see in
01:18:22
himself, which is really cool. and and
01:18:24
and that you know that takes courage on
01:18:26
on behalf of those and often there's
01:18:28
there's families involved and so you
01:18:29
know husband and wife doing the farming
01:18:31
and they got young kids and then they're
01:18:33
taking on someone that's got a
01:18:34
>> a checkered pass you know you take your
01:18:36
head off to them and and so so good on
01:18:38
them
01:18:38
>> well it's best for all of us as a
01:18:40
functioning society if these people um
01:18:42
get out and stay out
01:18:43
>> 100 100%
01:18:44
>> yeah how long do you give the job you've
01:18:45
been doing it seven years now
01:18:47
>> seven years and and it's it's a question
01:18:48
that comes up a lot and and you know I
01:18:50
say I say flippantly but again with an
01:18:53
element of um truth to it. Ask my
01:18:56
chairman or my wife. You know, as
01:18:59
[snorts] I say, I say it flippantly.
01:19:00
When when the when the chair chair or
01:19:02
the board think my time's up, uh they
01:19:04
they'll tell me. Uh and that I'm fully
01:19:07
respectful of that.
01:19:08
>> Uh and at the same time, my wife says,
01:19:10
"Right, it's time time to to re
01:19:12
reorientate yourself back towards the
01:19:13
family more." Um I I'll do that as well.
01:19:16
At this point in time, I'm still
01:19:17
enjoying it. I've got I've still got a
01:19:18
lot to offer, I think. Um [snorts]
01:19:21
and um and we've, you know, we've still
01:19:23
got a lot to do.
01:19:24
>> When it's done, what will you miss the
01:19:26
most and the least?
01:19:28
>> Uh again, uh who who knows? Because you
01:19:30
don't know what you don't know when
01:19:31
you've been doing this for so long and
01:19:33
and you you sort of run day dayto day on
01:19:36
on the same thing. Um
01:19:40
but I don't I couldn't just stop, you
01:19:42
know, if my chairman rang me on the way
01:19:44
out of here and said, you know, thanks,
01:19:46
but but you know, you might as well stay
01:19:47
home this afternoon.
01:19:49
you know, I probably I probably sleep
01:19:51
for a couple of days, but but I wouldn't
01:19:52
I wouldn't um I couldn't sit there
01:19:54
going, "What? That that was great. I'm
01:19:56
I'm relaxing now and by myself a
01:19:58
surfboard or something." I just don't
01:19:59
think it's in me. I I'd need to keep
01:20:01
myself
01:20:02
>> uh mentally uh stimulated. Um and you
01:20:06
know, I've got my son and family to keep
01:20:08
me, you know, physically stimulated, but
01:20:11
but in terms of I'd need to do
01:20:12
something. So, who knows what that looks
01:20:14
like. Um but again, I don't know what
01:20:16
you don't know. I don't know what that
01:20:17
looks like at this point in time.
01:20:18
>> It's going to be a big challenge for you
01:20:20
because you don't go from a CEO to a
01:20:22
leiser job in the organization, do you?
01:20:23
So once once once you step down from
01:20:25
this job, you're done with
01:20:26
>> this job that's been over half your life
01:20:28
now.
01:20:29
>> And whether you know it or not, it's
01:20:31
probably a huge part of your identity.
01:20:33
>> Yes. I No, I'm I'm conscious of that. Um
01:20:38
um yeah, I
01:20:41
yeah, I mean I I've more recently um
01:20:45
been appointed to the Hellberg Trust uh
01:20:47
board and so um Hellburg Foundation
01:20:50
board. So that's that's given me
01:20:52
something a bit different to think
01:20:53
about. Um won't say it's going to um you
01:20:57
know keep me up at 3:00 in the morning
01:20:58
worrying about stuff and those sort of
01:21:00
things, but but um that that'll give me
01:21:01
something else to to to put my mind
01:21:03
into.
01:21:04
>> Um yeah. and and you know, my wife sort
01:21:08
of runs most of the the the call it the
01:21:10
home office if you like. There's there's
01:21:11
a lot that goes on in our house with
01:21:13
with different things that we we've got
01:21:14
on the go. So, um I'd actually quite
01:21:17
enjoy getting, you know, supporting her
01:21:19
more. Um and getting my hands dirty a
01:21:21
bit more on some of the stuff that I
01:21:23
know just happens and the number of
01:21:25
documents she had me sign last night
01:21:27
because it's tax return and all those
01:21:29
sort of things, you know, maybe I need
01:21:30
to sort of put more effort into into
01:21:32
being a bit more involved in some of
01:21:33
that stuff. So yeah, it is it is my
01:21:35
identity. I get that. Uh but but I don't
01:21:38
think any shortage of things that'll
01:21:39
keep me occupied at that right time.
01:21:41
>> It sounds like it's a great team you got
01:21:42
going on. Yeah. Yeah. You must be I mean
01:21:45
yeah to to come from
01:21:47
>> I forget what the exact rates are but if
01:21:49
you're from um like a broken home
01:21:50
yourself like dramatically increases the
01:21:53
risk of you know your your own marriage
01:21:54
failing. And um
01:21:56
>> you to get a marriage that's over year
01:21:57
20 now I think that's exceptional.
01:21:59
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's but interesting and and
01:22:02
I said earlier that that I never felt
01:22:03
like I grew up in a broken home.
01:22:05
>> Yeah.
01:22:05
>> Um but you know my wife and I have been
01:22:08
together as you say been married for 22
01:22:09
but we've been together for a lot longer
01:22:11
than that actually. Um and and you know
01:22:14
she's got she's got a boring family.
01:22:15
She's got a mother and a father and a
01:22:17
brother and a sister and and and um and
01:22:20
and you know I sort of look at that in
01:22:22
I've always looked at that in awe.
01:22:24
>> Aspirational.
01:22:25
>> Yeah. Aspirational. But but not not not
01:22:28
in so far as disappointed from where I'd
01:22:30
come from cuz I say that didn't bother
01:22:32
me. But I've looked at that like, "Oh,
01:22:33
that's nice."
01:22:34
>> And you know, they're in their 70s and
01:22:36
they holding hands and going off for a
01:22:38
holiday together. I was like, "Oh,
01:22:39
that's pretty cool.
01:22:40
>> I'd like to do that." You know, so there
01:22:42
some things like that that I uh
01:22:44
>> that is aspirational, I guess, is your
01:22:46
point. So yeah, it's nice to have a nice
01:22:47
connection now, but also to see that
01:22:50
future is quite nice, too.
01:22:51
>> Yeah. It's like a template. If if your
01:22:53
son wrote a performance review, what
01:22:55
would be on the needs to improve list?
01:22:57
>> Oh, um,
01:22:59
well, he'd start with sport and he'd
01:23:01
have a crack at me with with, you know,
01:23:03
football or something or tennis or golf
01:23:06
golf swing or something like that.
01:23:07
>> You're going easy on him though, right?
01:23:09
>> Yeah. Um, so he so he so he'd have he'd
01:23:11
have a go at me that I need to work
01:23:13
harder on that. Um,
01:23:15
he he is starting to say more, you know,
01:23:18
like like why can't I, you know, he goes
01:23:20
to school camp tomorrow. um you know why
01:23:23
can't you come to school camp and you
01:23:25
know I did I did try this hard this year
01:23:26
very hard actually to see if if the
01:23:28
timing did work but unfortunately it
01:23:29
didn't but you know I'd love to go on a
01:23:31
couple of those things so he'd probably
01:23:32
have a have a crack at me on on some of
01:23:34
those things um as I say it's not it's
01:23:37
not a um um you I'm not trading one off
01:23:41
for the other but but um there are some
01:23:45
some benefits that come with with you
01:23:48
know the role that I have um which
01:23:51
doesn't outweigh the downside of losing
01:23:53
time with the family. I'm not trying to
01:23:55
compare those two.
01:23:56
>> Um but he hasn't he hasn't he doesn't
01:23:58
get that at all.
01:24:00
>> You know, my wife to a point gets it um
01:24:02
that we can enjoy when we do when we do
01:24:04
have family time, we do enjoy family
01:24:06
time and it's maybe it's a nice holiday
01:24:08
or some of those things and my wife
01:24:10
really gets that. He doesn't get that.
01:24:11
He doesn't get that that the you know
01:24:13
the sacrifice you make comes with a nice
01:24:15
salary and therefore we can do some nice
01:24:17
things. he sort of has taken that for
01:24:19
granted a little bit. Um, and so, you
01:24:22
know, he's only 12, so I think over time
01:24:24
that'll he'll get that.
01:24:26
>> Oh, there's always an element of the
01:24:27
grass is greener or you want what you
01:24:29
don't have. Um, h has your definition of
01:24:32
success changed over the years and if
01:24:33
so, how?
01:24:36
>> Um, yeah, it has. And so again, it's
01:24:39
probably that that cliche where um you
01:24:42
know, success for the organization and
01:24:44
and those sort of things was was the
01:24:46
ultimate goal. Um and while farmers may
01:24:50
not like to hear me say this, you know,
01:24:51
success for my family is the ultimate
01:24:53
goal. Uh which which ultimately, you
01:24:55
know, comes with health and and and
01:24:57
longevity and those sort of things. So I
01:24:59
I probably would have never thought like
01:25:00
that in the past. And maybe and not that
01:25:02
it not that I work was more important
01:25:05
than family. That's not what I'm saying.
01:25:06
And there's probably an element of uh
01:25:08
you take that piece for granted a bit
01:25:10
more and therefore I've got to get up.
01:25:12
I've got to go and work hard and we've
01:25:14
got to go and nail this objective
01:25:16
whatever I'm working on. Um and then
01:25:19
we'll come back and let's spend time
01:25:20
with the family. I think that now you
01:25:22
realize the older you get that that you
01:25:25
know those things um you know the family
01:25:28
and the whole thing come is is the most
01:25:30
important. Um, and actually when I look
01:25:32
back, you know, over my career, I think
01:25:37
that thing has probably been the number
01:25:39
one reason I've been successful
01:25:41
>> is that the stable family life and the
01:25:45
support that my wife's given me to
01:25:47
enable us to take these adventures and
01:25:50
let's go and do these things. And she's
01:25:51
been she's been up for it at the same
01:25:52
time. And so, um, it's just just
01:25:56
reorientating to make sure that I I'm
01:25:57
conscious of the fact that that's the
01:25:59
most important and the rest will follow.
01:26:02
>> I I've noticed, um, you like you're very
01:26:04
very careful about what you say because
01:26:05
you don't want your words to be to be
01:26:07
minced and I fully understand that. It's
01:26:08
such a high pressure job. Would you
01:26:10
rather um say something that's going to
01:26:12
put you on the wrong side with farmers
01:26:14
or or your wife? [laughter]
01:26:17
>> Um, yeah, that's a really good question.
01:26:19
That's a really good question.
01:26:21
>> You don't even have to answer that.
01:26:22
Don't answer it. [gasps]
01:26:23
There's no
01:26:24
>> No, no, but I'm I'm not I'm not going to
01:26:27
answer it, but but I'm but I'm thinking
01:26:29
it in the context of
01:26:31
>> I'm not I'm not scared of either. Put it
01:26:33
that way. [laughter]
01:26:35
Um
01:26:37
um but but I I'll I'll think I'll always
01:26:40
do what is what I believe is the right
01:26:42
thing for the long term. Now, if that
01:26:44
means saying things to piss off a
01:26:46
farmer, but it's the right thing for the
01:26:48
long term,
01:26:49
>> I'm I'm courageous enough to do that.
01:26:51
Um, and I'm trying to think of an
01:26:53
example where I'd piss my wife off
01:26:55
because it's the right thing to do for
01:26:56
the long term. It doesn't sort of work
01:26:57
like that. But I think you know what I'm
01:26:58
saying. I know you think you know what
01:27:00
I'm saying. There's something in there
01:27:01
that [laughter] that you know we we'll
01:27:03
lean in and have the tough conversations
01:27:04
collectively here and I as as needed.
01:27:07
>> Yeah. What's um what's a perfect day off
01:27:09
for you?
01:27:10
>> Perfect day off.
01:27:11
>> Yeah.
01:27:12
>> Uh we've we've recently managed to to
01:27:15
pick up a a place an hour or so north of
01:27:18
here. Um and and it is uh it's been been
01:27:22
wonderful actually. Um while the phone's
01:27:26
always not far away and there's always
01:27:27
something there something about just
01:27:28
being at a different location changes
01:27:31
the changes the uh the environment. So
01:27:34
um a day up at the at the beach is is is
01:27:37
really nice.
01:27:38
>> Uh we we've been getting a couple of
01:27:40
refurbishments done in the last couple
01:27:41
of months. We haven't been up there
01:27:42
recently but um this weekend first
01:27:45
weekend for a while. So uh that that is
01:27:47
that is probably the per the perfect day
01:27:49
off. Um
01:27:52
again it's
01:27:54
uh that's personally if I brought my
01:27:58
wife into it would be uh you know us
01:28:02
doing it together with maybe a nice meal
01:28:04
with some friends thrown in.
01:28:06
>> Uh I'm an introvert so I could probably
01:28:08
hold the friends for a little bit more
01:28:09
than she would. And if my son was in
01:28:11
there he'd say no that's not good
01:28:12
enough. we got to go out and really kick
01:28:14
a ball around or or hit the tennis ball
01:28:16
or go to the beach and and not just sit
01:28:17
around. So there's what what I think is
01:28:19
a perfect day versus what my wife and I
01:28:21
versus what the family is. And so
01:28:23
they're slightly different on all three
01:28:24
of them.
01:28:24
>> Yeah.
01:28:25
>> Um and so that's the compromise piece
01:28:26
that comes in.
01:28:27
>> And how do you hope your son sees you as
01:28:29
a man?
01:28:30
>> Uh I'd like to think uh caring.
01:28:34
>> Um
01:28:35
you know, you can get a bit short
01:28:37
sometimes when you you don't sleep and
01:28:39
you're jet-lagged and those sort of
01:28:40
things. Um, so I'd like to think I I'm
01:28:42
he sees me as caring despite sometimes
01:28:44
being a bit firm bit firm with him. Um,
01:28:50
>> yeah, that's probably the main the main
01:28:51
one. Yeah. Um, I think the rest sort of
01:28:55
just molds them behind it, but but yeah,
01:28:57
I think caring as well. [snorts]
01:29:00
>> Are you very emotional at all?
01:29:03
>> Not really. No.
01:29:04
>> No. Can you remember the last time you
01:29:06
cried?
01:29:07
Um, I'm just trying to remember the name
01:29:10
of the movie after a glass of wine on
01:29:11
the way back from Singapore the other
01:29:12
day. But, um, it's it's
01:29:14
>> Oh my god, I'm exactly the same. Movies
01:29:16
at altitude. E, give me anything with a
01:29:18
dog and there you go.
01:29:20
>> And yeah, a couple of penos.
01:29:22
>> Um, yeah, there there there is. And I
01:29:24
can't even remember the name of it now.
01:29:25
Halfway through the night, but uh, you
01:29:27
know that. But is that emotional? I I
01:29:29
don't know. But but there's often
01:29:30
something like that that'll uh that'll
01:29:32
that'll get me going. Um
01:29:35
but but in terms of outside of that it's
01:29:37
it's it's yeah it's rare in fact almost
01:29:40
not not at all if I can say that. Um
01:29:43
>> you know certainly certainly you know
01:29:45
get a a lump in my throat sometimes when
01:29:48
something's not quite right or whatever
01:29:49
but but no [clears throat] it's it's
01:29:51
pretty rare I think.
01:29:52
>> You can take the boy out of Christ
01:29:54
Church. Isn't [laughter] that the same?
01:29:55
Um what what are you most afraid of?
01:29:59
[snorts]
01:29:59
>> Um yeah it's it's a good question. Um
01:30:05
yeah I I don't know may maybe may may
01:30:08
maybe failure but not failure in a
01:30:11
personal sense is that you know the
01:30:13
responsibility I have uh it's not lost
01:30:16
on me at all but if that was to crash
01:30:18
and burn at some point that you know I'd
01:30:20
be afraid of that of of not not the
01:30:23
legacy that I' I wouldn't be leaving or
01:30:25
that I would leave as a result. It's
01:30:27
it's the disappointment that I've
01:30:29
created for these people that their
01:30:31
whole lives are invested in.
01:30:33
>> And and again come I come back to that
01:30:35
co-op piece for me is is is such an
01:30:38
important element is that you know if
01:30:39
you if you you
01:30:43
have some shares or whatever you're a
01:30:44
high street investor it's it's depending
01:30:47
on how much you've got you know you you
01:30:48
it's it's around the edges and if the
01:30:50
company goes up or down you just ride
01:30:52
with it and maybe over time it sort of
01:30:54
evens itself out.
01:30:56
Um, by and large a farmers are 100% of
01:31:00
their income is derived from the land,
01:31:03
the cows and the decisions that that me
01:31:06
and the team make. And that's um yeah,
01:31:09
that's a heck of a responsibility. So
01:31:11
that that's the bit that worries me that
01:31:13
that you know
01:31:16
decisions don't work out as we planned
01:31:18
and and things you know don't always do
01:31:20
that and and then how disappoint them
01:31:23
ultimately for the long term. Do you
01:31:25
have any regrets, professional or
01:31:27
personal?
01:31:29
>> Oh, lots. Lot lots of not not so much
01:31:32
not so much uh personal. Um
01:31:35
uh maybe a personal I've never been a
01:31:38
real family person. So I'd say that. So,
01:31:41
um, you know, I enjoyed spending time
01:31:43
with my mother, but, um,
01:31:46
you know, I'm not I'm not the person to
01:31:47
be sending out invites to come over on
01:31:49
Christmas Day and 30 people turning up
01:31:51
and, you know, it's just like we'll just
01:31:53
take it as it comes and, you know, if we
01:31:55
catch up, we catch up. And if you're
01:31:57
busy, I'm busy. That's fine. We'll,
01:31:58
>> you know, my number, I know your number.
01:32:00
So maybe if if you know I see see some I
01:32:04
was I was fortunate or unfortunate
01:32:06
enough depending on how you look at it
01:32:07
to to be at Jim Bulier's funeral um a
01:32:09
couple of weeks back um um mostly on the
01:32:13
back of I'm a friend of of one of his
01:32:15
sons but just to see you know the nine
01:32:17
children
01:32:19
um and and 18 grandchildren and just
01:32:22
that cohesive I was like yeah that's
01:32:24
that's pretty cool and I don't think
01:32:26
we'll ever have that
01:32:27
>> um and certainly not with one son anyway
01:32:29
but but you I will never have that. So,
01:32:30
is that a is it a regret? I wouldn't say
01:32:32
it's a regret, but it's just something I
01:32:33
look at and go, there is that's pretty
01:32:35
cool for Jim to be sitting there. I know
01:32:37
last Christmas, I'm going to guess. And
01:32:39
he would have had a house full of 40
01:32:40
people and I'm sitting there just
01:32:42
watching, observing, enjoying time with
01:32:45
each and every one of them, you know.
01:32:46
That's that that was pretty cool.
01:32:47
>> Um,
01:32:48
>> it would be nice. Even to me, I wouldn't
01:32:50
have a have a rowdy, hustling house.
01:32:52
>> Yeah. But but you got, you know, again,
01:32:54
as an introvert, you got your bedroom at
01:32:56
the end. You can close the door in if
01:32:57
you need to. Um, and from a work
01:33:00
perspective, I don't have any any any
01:33:02
regrets that that you I'm going to, you
01:33:04
know, write in my in my book. But, um,
01:33:06
but you know, every day, you know, you
01:33:08
the number of decisions you have that
01:33:10
come across your desk, no matter how big
01:33:11
or small, every day you like, should I
01:33:13
would have
01:33:14
>> if I had have taken more time or less
01:33:16
time. Normally, there's a time piece in
01:33:18
here. You either overthink it or you
01:33:19
underthink it. That's that's generally
01:33:21
how I if I go back and look at some of
01:33:23
the decisions you make and why it's not
01:33:25
as good as it could have been. It's
01:33:26
usually a time piece.
01:33:28
But most of the decisions um or or the
01:33:31
decisions where you sort of have the
01:33:33
most regret are around people actually I
01:33:35
think is that you you
01:33:37
>> you didn't move fast enough often. And
01:33:40
and that's not in a negative sense. We
01:33:41
didn't I didn't move them on. It's
01:33:42
that's not what I'm saying. It's not you
01:33:44
didn't bring them in fast enough. You
01:33:45
didn't promote them fast enough. You
01:33:46
didn't give them enough development. You
01:33:48
didn't give them enough feedback or
01:33:50
didn't make enough time for them.
01:33:52
>> Uh or yeah, you you didn't move them on
01:33:54
fast enough when things weren't working
01:33:56
quite quite so well. So a lot of the
01:33:58
decisions a lot of regrets if I think
01:34:00
back there's [snorts] a people elevant
01:34:01
to it.
01:34:03
>> And what about flaws? What are you still
01:34:05
working on as a man?
01:34:07
>> Well th those those regrets I'm I'm
01:34:10
conscious of that and and you know I've
01:34:13
got a you know very very experienced
01:34:15
leadership team but there's um but they
01:34:18
still need some support. You know
01:34:19
everyone needs everyone everyone needs
01:34:21
some support at some point. And so, um,
01:34:24
you can get too tied up being busy doing
01:34:26
your own thing without giving enough
01:34:28
time for your people. And so, I'm I'm
01:34:29
I'm trying to give a bit more to to
01:34:32
those that that need it. Um, but even
01:34:35
even those that say they don't need it,
01:34:37
but maybe giving them a bit more support
01:34:38
because even though they say they don't
01:34:40
need a need support, often just someone
01:34:42
to to to chew the ear off, you know.
01:34:46
>> This has been a fun conversation today.
01:34:48
>> Yeah. Not it's not certainly what I had
01:34:49
in my notes that I thought about last
01:34:51
night. Yeah. What do you I notic you
01:34:52
you've got like a briefing sheet there
01:34:54
like um interview notes or something.
01:34:55
What what sort of um briefing notes do
01:34:57
you get?
01:34:58
>> Um well they're usually quite
01:35:00
comprehensive and certainly you asked
01:35:01
earlier about what happens when you go
01:35:02
to Wellington um because you need to be
01:35:04
prepared for all of it and a lot of
01:35:06
those are are quite technical in in
01:35:08
nature. So that that's not the briefing
01:35:10
that they've given me here.
01:35:12
>> Uh it was more around some of the the
01:35:14
things you've done previously and maybe
01:35:16
have a listen and and which I did do. So
01:35:18
yeah. Well, from from my perspective,
01:35:20
I've I've really enjoyed it. Like
01:35:21
there's um some uh podcasts that stand
01:35:23
out like um I mentioned Rod Drury
01:35:25
recently uh from from uh a very small
01:35:28
house in Teridale in Hawks Bay, uh Sir
01:35:31
John Key from State House in in Christ
01:35:34
Church,
01:35:34
>> uh much like yourself. And I find these
01:35:36
stories most inspiring because it shows
01:35:38
um that anything's possible.
01:35:40
>> Anything's possible regardless of where
01:35:41
you start from. And that's really cool.
01:35:43
Are you proud of yourself?
01:35:45
>> Yeah, I am. But I think that's more
01:35:47
that's probably come more recently when
01:35:48
you know again what was it was it
01:35:50
Tiffany in your first thing you read um
01:35:53
you know she didn't have to say that.
01:35:55
Was it her name? I think it was
01:35:57
>> it was Yeah.
01:35:57
>> She didn't have to say that. And so when
01:36:00
you do get a few of those I think okay
01:36:01
I'm I should acknowledge I should
01:36:04
acknowledge that that maybe I've done
01:36:06
done a few things. Okay. And the numbers
01:36:07
sort of speak for themselves and um and
01:36:10
no one's throwing stuff at me down the
01:36:12
street or I'm getting the odd microphone
01:36:13
put under my nose. But but um and so so
01:36:16
there's an element of yeah maybe I am
01:36:17
maybe I'm proud but um but but at the
01:36:21
same time grounded and you know I I'll
01:36:23
go home tonight and there'll be my
01:36:25
12-year-old son who has no interest in
01:36:28
what I did today and will give me a hard
01:36:30
time because he's off to school camp
01:36:31
tomorrow and I haven't got his shoes out
01:36:33
ready or some some rubbish that it's my
01:36:35
fault for not doing and so that brings
01:36:37
it all back home. You know [laughter]
01:36:39
>> you're copying it at work, you're
01:36:40
copying it at home. It's like the the
01:36:42
car ride is the only safe space.
01:36:44
>> Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. As I talked
01:36:46
about earlier, those long flights
01:36:47
sometimes they're quite nice.
01:36:48
>> Hey, Miles Harold, this has been so
01:36:50
good, mate.
01:36:50
>> My pleasure.
01:36:51
>> Really appreciate it.
01:36:51
>> Good stuff. Thanks, Tom.
01:36:59
[music]
