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Oh, good. You're here. Come on. This is
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the center of performance. Whenever
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there's a top performance in New
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Zealand, it all comes from here. That's
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Lisa Carrington. She's been doing that
00:00:10
for days. That's the boys who got the
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hole in one in
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it again. Hey Finn, how's the
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performance going?
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>> Top tier.
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>> Nice. This is our generate room. In
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here, you'll find our top performers
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helping Kiwis maximize their Kiwi Saver
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[music] investments. Get in here, Finn.
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>> Maximize. Generate. putting performance
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first.
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>> Anna Streton, welcome to my podcast.
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>> Hi, Dom. Um, big big drive here, but
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great to be um here. Don't know if it's
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great to be back in Oakuckland always,
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but
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>> where did you come from?
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>> I came from Hamilton.
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>> How was the expressway this morning?
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>> It was diabolical. Um, started back at
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Drury. Um, it went down to a single
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lane, then we had the rain. Um, and then
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you just get the normal traffic and
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without the school holidays, I thought
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this would be an absolute breeze.
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>> You got a very nice car. There's no way
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you were sticking to 110 on the way up
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on the expressway.
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>> Well, you know, I thought Pilates, I'll
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finish at 7:30. I'll actually be up here
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[snorts] working, waiting for um our
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10:00 me time, but no, no, it wasn't.
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>> So, a lot of people will be familiar
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with um the name Anna S or Anna Streen,
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but um a lot of people
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>> I hope a lot of women will be. Yeah.
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>> Yeah. Well, I think um
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>> yeah, men men as well. You're just one
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of those names like Karen Walker, Triss
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Cooper, Annetton. You're in the same
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sort of um echelon. Everyone knows
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>> age demographic. Anyway, I guess
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[laughter]
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sitting squarely there at that.
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>> How old are How old are you now? 65.
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Fantastic. [ __ ] you're looking great.
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>> Thank you.
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>> Are you feeling great?
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>> Yeah, I feel great.
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>> Yeah, I guess wellness is such a huge
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priority for me. So,
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>> yeah. Where where does the where does
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the drive to strive come from? like
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still being 65, a lot of people are sort
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of um you know stepping stepping back or
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going into cruise mode at that point.
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>> Yeah. Um I guess I just love what I do.
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Um work is kind of addictive for me. Um
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I don't look at it as work and looking
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at new opportunities is just hugely
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exciting. I mean so I don't feel
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exhausted. Um just love love everything
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that kind of comes across my path. So
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happy to investigate, happy to look at
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it.
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>> Yeah. It's funny, isn't it? He when I
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was 30, I would have thought the measure
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of success would be to be retired by the
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age I am now, 52. Like retiring at 50,
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that was sort of a goal. And now I
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couldn't think of anything worse.
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>> Yeah. I think it's actually problematic
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in a lot of cases. Um and that my mom,
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who's 86, is still working for us every
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day. She does your accounts, right?
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>> Yeah, she does. And it's um I think it
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would be really difficult if I was to
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say to her, "Hey, mom. um I probably
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think it's time to kind of step back or
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cuz that whole cognitive thing um you
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know having a purpose coming somewhere
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every day and she still does a bloody
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good job so that's what's awesome as
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well but you know a huge privilege to be
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working there having her in the space um
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not only in respect of my daughter's
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there my partner's there but um now my
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young grandson is often coming in there
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as well so yeah
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>> so who is Anna Streton not the designer
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or the brand but the woman
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>> yeah I guess um those are always and
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given that I've listened to some
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podcast, I kind of know some of the
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questions that um I'm likely to get. Um
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but I I guess for me, I'm just someone
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that's incredibly passionate. Um very
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very direct. Um I extremely black and
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white. Uh is not afraid of conflict. Um
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loves to get involved in the tough
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conversations. Um I believe I'm fair, an
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excellent communicator. Uh there's lots
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of aspects to me. I mean, I'm a
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passionate photographer now. Um highly
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academic. you know, academia is one of
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my favorite spaces. I went back and um
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did my or a couple of M's degrees in my
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late 50s. Um so, I guess I'm a myriad of
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things. Um and still still learning a
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hell of a lot about myself. You know,
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the biggest um I guess one of the things
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I love to do is educate is learn stuff.
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>> From what you've said, um just applying
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that lens to say employees that you've
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had over the years, what would they say?
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Tough boss.
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>> Yeah. No, I think that at the early
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days, yeah, I think they would have said
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too tough, you know, too tough to Yeah.
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too too kind of I want it done, I want
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it done my way, and I want it done now.
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Um, I guess a lot more collaborative
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now. Um, a lot fairer, a lot more the
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communication's a lot more open. Um,
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building trusted relationships. I employ
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some incredible women. Um, and women
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that have been there for a long, long
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time. Sort of 15 years plus in retail,
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which is pretty unheard of, especially
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in retail. So, it's a very special space
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to be. But yes, no, I've evolved. I
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think the the work and we'll possibly
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talk about it. The work I do in the
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women's prisons, which I've been doing
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for the last 12 years under our RAW
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charity, has changed my leadership style
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a lot. You know, um it's made me very
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aware of just different lifestyles,
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different ways that people um
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communicate, connect, think um rather
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than expecting anyone to think like me.
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Well, already we've only been going 4
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minutes. So, the the impression I'm
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getting is um you someone if if you've
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got a staff member and they're bloody
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great um you'll be so loyal and you
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treat them like a like a god or a
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goddess. Um but you don't suffer fools.
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>> Yeah, I guess.
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>> Yeah, you're bang on. Really? Bang on. I
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struggle with um with people that are
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not there for the right reason um and
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not prepared to kind of be as passionate
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about um the company, the role they've
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chosen to do as perhaps I would have
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expect them to to be. But those that
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bring that real energy um and that
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absolute passion into the the roles that
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we have and they're they're quite
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diverse because they're across the
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social footprint as well. Um massive
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respect for Yeah. and look to empower um
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look to enrich in every which way that I
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can.
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>> Yeah, I'm excited to get into this
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because there's there's a there's a lot
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to the Anastton story and um I suppose
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lots of lessons about um leadership and
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resilience. Um I mean it's a it's a
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brutal industry you're in.
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>> Yes, it is. It's an incredibly brutal
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industry and I I mean 33 years is has
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not been easy. There's been lots of ups
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and downs. Um but and even moments where
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we said hey is it time to to shut the
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doors. Um but from you know and I've
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watched a lot of you know very good
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designers kind of hang up their boots um
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and move on for whatever reason you know
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whatever reason they're suggesting some
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because they are in struggle street
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others because they've just had enough
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you know um they're incredibly hard
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businesses to sell um especially if
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you've used your name so you pretty much
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ride it out. So wonderful space for me
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to be in with my daughter as a willing
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succession fan. [laughter]
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>> Well, that's kind of rare. That's kind
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of rare.
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>> I didn't I didn't think about the name
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thing. It wouldn't be impossible though.
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Right. Let's Alexander McQueen, for
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example, Kate Spade.
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>> Yeah, [snorts] but they are not New
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Zealand businesses. We've never seen
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I've not seen one successfully sell with
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a um that's that's running under
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someone's name that's sizable here in
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New Zealand. So, yeah. But it is it even
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more. Um,
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>> why why is it so tough?
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>> Well, it's diff. Why is it so tough to
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sell? Well, from my perspective, it's
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tough to sell because I'd have to sell
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my name. The brand is the name and I
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need my brand and I need my name. My
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name has been particularly useful in the
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corrections conversation that I've
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advanced. So, it's enabled me to
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actually advance connection um a lot
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faster than I would have because there's
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been a curiosity around what a fashion
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designer would want um in this space. So
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I've had and been able to get an
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audience, but to sell it and have
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someone else flying under the guise of
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Anna Streton would be hard, especially
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if it didn't go so well for them.
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>> Would you do you regret that now? If you
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had your time over again, would you call
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it?
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>> Absolutely. If I had it again, I'd you
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know, I'd call it whatever, but no, not
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not Anna Serena Street. No. No. [snorts]
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>> You could have gone with your initials
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like as color or something.
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>> Anything. Yeah. Anything but my name.
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But my name and that's one of the things
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where I get to mentor a lot of young
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fashion designers who not so much today.
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Um it's interesting um and that I I
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don't know how many people are actually
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considering the industry um as a sort of
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a viable choice for them anymore but um
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I used to spend a lot of time with
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younger designers that were aspiring to
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kind of set up their small fashion
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empire and that was probably one of the
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pieces of advice that I would always
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give you don't use your name.
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>> Okay, let's go all the way back to the
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beginning. So
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>> born 1960 in Wonganui.
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>> Uh 59.
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>> 59.
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>> 59. Yeah.
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>> 195. Would have been better with 60.
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Wouldn't it feel [laughter] kind of what
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what what are your earliest memories?
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Your foundational memories?
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>> Yeah. I guess um I don't remember
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anything around Fonganui. Um although I
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>> blocked it out.
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>> I don't know if [laughter]
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no cuz there was no trauma there. Um it
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was effectively more I guess it's we
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moved to Havlock North when I was five
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or 6 years of age and Havlock North
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Primary School is probably my first real
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memory. So around five um I know that
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people can go back earlier than that but
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I certainly can't um even though I pride
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myself on a strong memory but um
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certainly around five. Who
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>> where did the um where did the idea of
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fashion come from?
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>> Well that's a big question. Um I think
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for me as I traveled through I was
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always a creative so painting, art,
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drawing, sculpture and so at at high
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school I was taking school arts you know
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ueI art and then art history. So um but
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for me it was my father who felt that
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those sorts of subjects were not useful.
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I mean and they would not get me far. He
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was a lawyer. He had a double degree in
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law in accountancy and I was um after a
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bit of a stint at THC Yraki I was
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working there um as their matraee. Do
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you remember all these places or
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[laughter]
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>> you remember
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corporation? Yeah. Um after after a
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stint there I um it was back in the
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Hawks Bay um too much alcohol. We were
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probably drinking Liestrom from the cask
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then or whatever and got into a debate
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with my father who felt that I was
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wasting my life, you know, hospitality
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and kind of some of these soft choices.
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And um I guess the alcohol made me a lot
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bolder and I suggested to him really
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what what do you suggest I should do?
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you know you am I to be like you and
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with the he said I don't know he said
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but I just feel that you are better than
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what you're actually doing and I said
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you know pick a degree and I'll show you
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that I can do it um and he said well you
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should pick it because you're going to
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do it so I chose accountancy
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oh my gosh I couldn't have been further
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away from where my head was at the stuff
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that I loved the but I guess what it
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showed me it took me seven years to do
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that through the poly checks in New
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Zealand um I think I failed two papers
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along the way but I managed to pick them
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up in the second year And I for a while
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held um only because I I was doing the
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continuing education but I held a CA
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degree. Um but that has been the best
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thing that I ever did. Not only did it
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show me that I have extreme discipline
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and I do um but it also showed me that
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um I can get the left and right brain
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going. And when you do have the left and
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right brain going, business success is a
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lot easier,
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>> you know, because I've got a handle on
00:11:00
the numbers. But I'm also highly
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creative.
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>> [ __ ] It would have been so much of an
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easier career just to be an accountant,
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right? Work for someone else.
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>> No, it would have been dreadful.
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[laughter] I did that for years. I mean,
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like that.
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>> But easier in terms of so much easier
00:11:15
than being an entrepreneur and running
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your own business.
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>> No, because it's addictive. You know,
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it's an actual addiction because I don't
00:11:22
know where the ideas keep coming from.
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You know, I'll head into work and I'll
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go, "Oh my god, I've had an idea." And
00:11:27
they'll go, you know, can we listen to
00:11:28
the idea tomorrow or in the afternoon or
00:11:30
do we have to hear it now? or they I
00:11:33
guess that true entrepreneurial mindset.
00:11:35
No, I mean accountancy was a tough space
00:11:37
for me to be in. Really tough, but
00:11:39
hugely beneficial and showed me how
00:11:41
disciplined I can be to actually achieve
00:11:44
something like that that was not me. Um
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and so foreign to me. I mean all of that
00:11:49
stuff I I'd never ever been exposed to
00:11:51
it.
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>> Yeah. There there's there's one part of
00:11:53
your work history that you left out
00:11:55
there and I've got a um I've got a prop
00:11:57
here and I want
00:11:58
>> Oh, no. I want to know what what what
00:11:59
comes to mind or what memories come up
00:12:01
when you see when you see this can wies
00:12:03
fruit salad.
00:12:04
>> Oh my gosh. I mean I I don't even think
00:12:06
I talk about that. That was um that was
00:12:09
in Hastings. Um who doesn't work for
00:12:11
Waties when you live in the Hawks Bay,
00:12:13
so I I know that I was born in Fongu,
00:12:15
but I I kind of see myself as a Hawks
00:12:17
Bay girl. I see myself as coming from um
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the bay. And um yeah, I worked like so
00:12:23
many I guess of my peer group um on the
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canning lines with the I don't even know
00:12:29
where you dug that up, but anyway, I
00:12:30
worked on the canning lines um putting
00:12:32
the four cherries that go into the big
00:12:34
cans of fruit salads. So you would just
00:12:36
they only put four into those big cans
00:12:39
with [laughter] the um and we use them a
00:12:40
lot for catering um when I got into
00:12:42
other jobs and hospitality. But the
00:12:44
canned lines would often break down. So
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when they did, of course, the amusing
00:12:48
part was to take a fistful of cherries,
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go right down into the fruit salad, and
00:12:52
then drop them in and then put the four
00:12:53
on the top. So [laughter] they were, but
00:12:56
that's the childish sort of stuff that
00:12:57
we all do. But yes, I have worked for
00:12:59
Watties. Yeah. Proudly worked for
00:13:01
Waties.
00:13:02
>> Yeah. And is is so you started um your
00:13:05
you started in fashion at about 30.
00:13:08
>> Have I got that right?
00:13:09
>> Yeah. Well, I started Oh, yeah. That see
00:13:12
maths. Um started in ' 92. Um and yeah,
00:13:15
I was around 2930 cuz I had um I had Sam
00:13:19
in 88 and she was about she was about
00:13:22
three. Yeah. So
00:13:24
>> yeah. [gasps]
00:13:26
>> So how how did that sort of begin? So
00:13:28
from what I can gather you you worked
00:13:29
for Glesson's?
00:13:30
>> No. I um I did the accounting went into
00:13:34
accounting firms um and then was
00:13:36
pregnant um and sort of in 88 I was
00:13:39
pregnant and I decided that even if I
00:13:41
didn't pass my last accounting papers I
00:13:43
didn't know whether I was going to go
00:13:44
back and do them but I did fortunately
00:13:46
so I was fully qualified but um I then
00:13:50
left work the only ever the only time
00:13:51
I've not worked except that my sister
00:13:53
and I purchased a restaurant at that
00:13:55
time so I was working in the restaurant
00:13:57
as well with her so we had a restaurant
00:13:58
in Morrenville but Um it take I took the
00:14:02
8 months off from the accounting firm
00:14:03
and then I went they rang me the
00:14:06
accounting fir firm rang me after 8
00:14:07
months and said hey surely you were
00:14:08
going to get back into something or do
00:14:10
something and I said yes I am but not
00:14:11
accounting I don't like accounting like
00:14:13
I know that and they said hey um we
00:14:16
thought you might like um this job it's
00:14:18
an accounting job but it's with a
00:14:19
clothing factory in Morrenville and so I
00:14:21
went in there on an accounting capacity
00:14:24
but that evolved into their design space
00:14:26
um and that was quite a generic design
00:14:28
space we were servicing the um chain
00:14:31
stores. So we were working with
00:14:32
glassons, with easy buy with the and
00:14:34
they were hard task masters but god they
00:14:36
taught me a lot. I mean if something was
00:14:38
late or I you know it you know was
00:14:40
certainly um you know we we got it back
00:14:43
and we had to deal with it.
00:14:45
>> Yeah.
00:14:45
>> Yeah. So Tim Gon from Gleason's and uh
00:14:48
Gerald Gillespie from Easy by I'm from
00:14:51
Palmer North. So very familiar with
00:14:53
Jared and Peter. I mean you know like
00:14:54
they they were just I mean I don't they
00:14:57
weren't mentors in that space but they
00:15:00
um I was able to work with them. I was
00:15:02
able to Kmart was was one of my biggest
00:15:04
biggest um clients but um you know
00:15:07
farmers trading deca I was working
00:15:09
across all the big generic guys. was a
00:15:11
bit I guess the accounting side um had
00:15:14
taught me about the business of fashion
00:15:15
and I always went into fashion um with a
00:15:18
business perspective. I was never kind
00:15:19
of chasing the most fabulous person in
00:15:22
Oakuckland to be wearing my frocks. That
00:15:23
wasn't my goal. My goal was to actually
00:15:26
um you know make money make money. And I
00:15:29
knew that I could do that um through the
00:15:32
chain stores because the orders were
00:15:33
big. They were huge.
00:15:34
>> And what did you learn from those guys?
00:15:36
>> Everything. Yeah. Everything. You know,
00:15:38
I mean how to wheel and deal. I mean
00:15:40
Kevin Male at three beers, I mean he was
00:15:43
just another person in the rag trade
00:15:45
that was accoladated and he supported me
00:15:47
by I mean that was my first order. He
00:15:50
gave me 40 linen shirts. Um and of
00:15:53
course I was used to pricing sitting in
00:15:54
a very low framework. um and that the
00:15:57
chain stores will screw you right down
00:15:59
to get um you know the best price that
00:16:01
they can and they have price points that
00:16:02
they've got to be and in those days it
00:16:04
was all 39 or 49 that that was as high
00:16:06
as they would go on clothing but um no
00:16:09
they taught me everything they taught me
00:16:10
about how to produce on time you know
00:16:12
how to produce quality garments how to
00:16:13
do it in New Zealand I mean and they
00:16:16
believed in me I mean Kmart was paying
00:16:17
me 7 days on a 7-day turnaround and it
00:16:19
was getting that account was in at at
00:16:21
one stage I had it up to about 5 million
00:16:23
I mean it was a massive account for
00:16:27
So that was that was Anastasin or Anna.
00:16:29
>> No, that was that was just whatever
00:16:31
label I could put it under.
00:16:33
>> Yeah. Just think of a name, think of a
00:16:35
whatever and create a label.
00:16:37
>> That sounds really lucrative. Big
00:16:39
contract.
00:16:40
>> So they had it was and that had nothing
00:16:42
to do with an that was all about this is
00:16:46
how I was going to do it. You know I and
00:16:47
this is the company that I'd learned
00:16:48
from that's what they were doing. you
00:16:49
know, they were dealing with the but
00:16:51
when I left them um and effectively the
00:16:55
way that I left is it was going so well
00:16:56
they got me an assistant from Oakland
00:16:58
and she came down and she said, "Why are
00:16:59
you doing this for these people? You
00:17:01
should be doing this for yourself." And
00:17:02
I said, "Have you seen the size of what
00:17:04
these guys do?" You know, like when an
00:17:06
order is canled. What do you do with
00:17:07
5,000 garments that were destined for
00:17:09
easy buy, but they're late, you know?
00:17:11
They're sitting at the bottom of the
00:17:12
clothing feeding chain. You know, where
00:17:14
do you take those garments? And um uh
00:17:17
she said, "Look, I don't know." She
00:17:18
said, "There's a hell of a lot of people
00:17:19
that I don't place any value in doing
00:17:21
this in Oakuckland and not doing it very
00:17:23
well. You could do this. You do it
00:17:24
well." So, I left. Um I handed them my
00:17:26
notice. They told me to pack up my desk
00:17:28
that day, understandably. And she said,
00:17:30
"Actually, I'm coming with you. Have you
00:17:31
got a job?" And so, we both left and we
00:17:33
moved out onto the farm that I was
00:17:35
married to a dairy farmer. Um, and we
00:17:38
moved out onto the farm, shifted some
00:17:39
prefab buildings on, and I continued to
00:17:41
work in the same way, except the company
00:17:44
I was working for were doing denim. They
00:17:46
were very much about denim garments. So
00:17:47
they had all the Levis's contracts. They
00:17:49
were doing all the police work they were
00:17:50
doing. So I decided to just work with
00:17:52
knits like the t-shirt you've got on. So
00:17:55
um because we weren't able to fill a lot
00:17:57
of the knit orders um through this
00:17:59
company I was working for. So by going
00:18:00
to the knits felt there was a little bit
00:18:02
of integrity around that kind of shift
00:18:03
and I wasn't working in the same space
00:18:05
they were and then I just continued to
00:18:07
grow out into the woven into the fancies
00:18:09
that they weren't doing so much with.
00:18:10
>> So was that sort of the birth of Anna
00:18:12
Streton? It was the birth of the
00:18:14
clothing company. It was called Street
00:18:15
and Clothing Company. And in that first
00:18:16
year, um, I'd come off a salary of
00:18:18
44,000. I turned over a million dollars
00:18:20
and was 50% profitable. [ __ ] I didn't
00:18:23
know what to do with the bloody money. I
00:18:24
just thought, "Oh my god, I'm I'm
00:18:26
actually really good at this. [laughter]
00:18:29
>> Oh my god. Oh my god. That's a that's a
00:18:32
horrible entrepreneur story because it's
00:18:34
not a reality."
00:18:35
>> I know. But when my accountant rang and
00:18:37
she said, "Oh my god, look what you've
00:18:38
achieved." You know, I was it was an
00:18:41
Sherry from the Westpack Bank. I
00:18:42
remember her saying to me, "Anna
00:18:43
Streitton, you're nothing but a bloody
00:18:45
trader." And I said, "Yeah, I probably
00:18:47
am. I love to trade. I love a deal. I
00:18:50
love a deal." You know, I'm pretty good
00:18:52
at the markets. You know, when you go to
00:18:53
markets, you get the opportunity to
00:18:55
barter and sort of the, you know, the um
00:18:57
I've just come [clears throat] back from
00:18:58
Vietn Vietnam and Cambodia and um I I
00:19:01
noticed the nervousness around
00:19:02
bartering, but doesn't worry me. Were
00:19:04
you were you always tough or did did um
00:19:06
you working with um people with and
00:19:09
dealing with people like Tim Gon and
00:19:10
Jared Gillespie did that sort of like
00:19:12
force you
00:19:12
>> No, they were tough on me. Yeah, they
00:19:14
were tough on me. They didn't realize
00:19:15
you had to sort of match them.
00:19:16
>> Well, they just said, "If you want this
00:19:17
order, Anna, it's this price and in this
00:19:20
fabric." And so then I had to actually
00:19:21
work out how much margin I needed. And I
00:19:24
remember one of the first orders that I
00:19:26
got from Farmers Trading where she gave
00:19:28
me 20,000 shift dresses as a first order
00:19:31
and I had $4 in each shift dress, you
00:19:34
know. So, it was I was okay with small
00:19:37
margins when I was getting those huge
00:19:39
quantities because it was 80,000 bucks
00:19:41
just to deliver that order.
00:19:43
>> So, that year that you talked about
00:19:44
before, early on in the business where
00:19:46
you made like half a million,
00:19:49
>> that was the profit.
00:19:50
>> There was tax there was tax on that.
00:19:51
>> Yeah. Um, did it get better than that or
00:19:54
was that a
00:19:55
>> Um, it's pretty much set. No, it got
00:19:57
stronger. It got stronger. Yeah. You
00:19:59
know, like I just I just love business
00:20:01
and I think that whole accounting thing
00:20:02
and I owe that to my father. Um, not not
00:20:05
because he did it, but because he was um
00:20:07
I guess he was he was fine with having
00:20:09
those conversations, you know, around,
00:20:11
you know, what you're doing is is not
00:20:13
you. It's not.
00:20:15
>> And certainly had those with my children
00:20:16
and got them to actually do finance and
00:20:19
um, you know, that more accounting
00:20:21
geared knowing that they were creatives,
00:20:23
you know, ones ended up in in building
00:20:25
and Sam's also Well, Sam's in the
00:20:27
fashion company.
00:20:28
>> Yeah. Yeah. You must have thought you
00:20:29
were invincible at that point.
00:20:30
>> Well, it's hard not to, isn't it? When
00:20:33
you're doing so damn well. And it was
00:20:35
all in New Zealand, too, because there
00:20:36
was no I wasn't offshore, you know. I
00:20:38
was only working in New Zealand. Um, and
00:20:40
I was just working um with those big
00:20:43
guys. And there was a lot of them, you
00:20:44
know. Don't forget internet wasn't here,
00:20:46
you know, none. There was nothing. It
00:20:47
was just, you know, um, we were working
00:20:50
with what we had. We were It was all
00:20:51
relationship based. I remember Kmart New
00:20:53
Zealand giving um me a Christmas present
00:20:56
for being such an awesome supplier to
00:20:58
work with and they'd never done that.
00:21:00
>> When did you launch your first store?
00:21:02
>> Well, what happened is um I was driving
00:21:04
I used to drive this Mubishi L Mitubishi
00:21:07
L300 van. I came out to walk and I pick
00:21:09
up my fabrics and then I'd drive home,
00:21:11
you know, back to Morrenville. Um and I
00:21:13
do that two or three times a week. And I
00:21:15
was driving back one day and Kmart rang
00:21:17
me and they said, "Hey, have you got a
00:21:18
ch chance to pop in?" I thought, "Oh,
00:21:20
this is good. I'll go and just check the
00:21:21
orders and and I said, "Yeah, sure." So,
00:21:23
I went in and that was when they told me
00:21:26
that the business was actually changing
00:21:28
the way that they brought they were
00:21:30
heading to Australia. I was welcome to
00:21:31
deal with that, but it effectively meant
00:21:33
there would be no more New Zealand
00:21:34
business. So, I lost that account, which
00:21:36
as I said over that time had been about
00:21:38
$5 million worth of business um
00:21:40
overnight. So, I remember driving down
00:21:41
the motorway in my little van thinking,
00:21:43
"Oh my god, what happens now?" you know,
00:21:46
like you've lost your biggest account,
00:21:47
you know, um with the but I guess for me
00:21:50
that was when the pivot happened and I
00:21:52
effectively said, okay, well, I will set
00:21:54
up a label um that means that I'm only
00:21:57
um reliant on myself. You know, I don't
00:22:00
have these dependencies based around the
00:22:01
way that other people are trading.
00:22:03
[sighs and gasps]
00:22:05
And that's when an was born. But it
00:22:07
wasn't an when I first started. So the
00:22:10
[laughter]
00:22:10
well because I was traveling all the
00:22:12
time for the generic guys and
00:22:14
effectively we go to London and the UK
00:22:16
we'd pick up styling that we believed
00:22:18
was hot um and we bring it back and we
00:22:20
go this dress in this fabric this is
00:22:23
what I can do at this price and they yay
00:22:25
or nay it so while I was the next trip
00:22:28
that I did I thought I actually need to
00:22:30
think and of a label because if I'm
00:22:32
going to start to set up something for
00:22:34
myself and I found a little shoe store
00:22:36
in the states called Sam and Libby
00:22:38
I thought this will do. Um because for
00:22:40
me, don't forget I was very business,
00:22:42
you know, save the cost, get it done. Um
00:22:44
and so I took the Sam and Libby label
00:22:46
and no internet, no connection with New
00:22:48
Zealand and thought I'll just knock this
00:22:50
off and I will call my stores Sam and
00:22:52
Libby. Um Sam's my daughter and Libby
00:22:55
I'll name my [snorts] Volkswagen Libby.
00:22:57
I'll change the number plates. We had
00:22:58
the personalized plates. So if anyone
00:23:00
asked me where it came from, I'll say
00:23:01
that was the the combo [laughter]
00:23:03
pre- internet. There's no way that
00:23:04
anyone
00:23:05
>> there's no one could find it. And like
00:23:06
and so here I was setting up these Sam
00:23:08
and Libby stores because I figured that
00:23:10
once I set up one in Havlock North um I
00:23:13
could scale them pretty quickly because
00:23:15
I was used to big quantities and so I
00:23:16
thought once I had one I could just keep
00:23:18
going
00:23:18
>> duplicate it.
00:23:19
>> Yeah. But of course Sam and Libby came
00:23:21
to town. [gasps]
00:23:23
They um a we had a woman come into the
00:23:26
store and she said, "Oh, is Anna in
00:23:27
shoes?" And the manager said, "No, I
00:23:29
don't think so." And she said, "Oh, I
00:23:31
bought these shoes from the warehouse. I
00:23:33
thought she must have been doing. Of
00:23:34
course, the warehouse had dropped a
00:23:35
whole lot of Sam and Libby shoes. Um,
00:23:37
and I got a cease and desist from Sam
00:23:39
and Libby. [laughter]
00:23:42
And I thought, "Oh my gosh, I can this
00:23:44
is just expensive cuz I'm having to
00:23:46
change about four or five stores and
00:23:48
labels and um cuz I had knocked off and
00:23:51
done and taken everything that they had
00:23:54
cuz it was just easy." And that's the
00:23:55
way we did it in those days. We'd pick
00:23:57
up a label in a chain store and we go,
00:23:58
"Okay, we'll just replicate it back here
00:24:00
because no one's going to know." You
00:24:01
know, who comes to New Zealand?
00:24:03
>> It sounds It sounds like terrible under
00:24:06
today's lens. It sounds like you're a
00:24:07
thieving pirate, but back then back then
00:24:09
it was just
00:24:10
>> That's [laughter] what we we'd be
00:24:11
walking through a chainsaw and we'd see
00:24:13
a label and we go, "Oh, that's really
00:24:15
pretty." You know, and we'd just take
00:24:17
it, you know? I mean, it's just Or you'd
00:24:19
buy the garment so you had all the
00:24:20
labels, you know? It's And then you'd
00:24:22
hand that to the local label maker and
00:24:24
you say, "This is what I want to do."
00:24:25
Saved on all the graphic. It's what we
00:24:27
did. It's what we did. [laughter]
00:24:29
>> It's what I did.
00:24:30
>> Unbelievable. And I love how you're
00:24:32
you're telling the story without an
00:24:33
ounce of shame. It's just unapologetic.
00:24:35
>> It's [laughter]
00:24:36
I mean when I look back on the stupidity
00:24:39
of that, but we didn't even see it as
00:24:41
stupid. And I was pretty lucky that I
00:24:43
just got a cease and desist. It could
00:24:44
have been pretty seismic. But um yeah,
00:24:47
and I changed the stores and I thought,
00:24:49
right, I'll go to my own name because if
00:24:50
I go to my own name, I'm never going to
00:24:52
have to deal with this again. So that's
00:24:53
when Anes was born. Yeah. and we started
00:24:56
setting up the NR stores and I think at
00:24:58
um one stage we had about 42 stores so
00:25:01
we got relatively big quite quickly and
00:25:04
we didn't start changing them to Anna
00:25:06
Streton until we um fashion week came on
00:25:08
the scene and um they refused to let
00:25:11
Anna exhibit because they felt we were
00:25:13
too chain store right
00:25:14
>> yeah so I thought okay I'll just flick
00:25:16
that on its head and
00:25:17
>> Oh s like a victim of your own success
00:25:19
in a way
00:25:19
>> well no they just felt that they were
00:25:21
more designer yeah not they didn't want
00:25:23
the gene Jones of this or the Anastitans
00:25:26
or the cuz we were kind of in that
00:25:27
chains and we were we were in that we
00:25:29
were turning out generic product you
00:25:31
know like we had a linen shirt LBO what
00:25:33
was it LB75 I think we were just making
00:25:35
thousands and thousands of these shirts
00:25:37
and I knew that if I if the shirt was
00:25:39
priced at 99 bucks women would buy two
00:25:41
and so I was really um attuned to sweet
00:25:44
spots in pricing the chain stores had
00:25:46
taught me to do that they taught me if I
00:25:47
could get the price at this but of
00:25:49
course those prices were exponential
00:25:51
compared to what I was used to you know
00:25:52
if I could get a shoot out at 99 instead
00:25:54
49. Great.
00:25:57
>> So, see, would [clears throat] it be
00:25:59
fair to say like your drive was money?
00:26:01
>> I was in business. Yeah, I was in
00:26:03
business. But along the way, I was
00:26:04
building a kind of a social impact
00:26:06
footprint purely in a in a way a lot of
00:26:08
people do. I aligned with a lot of the
00:26:10
large charities that had um that, you
00:26:13
know, that were actually useful for my
00:26:15
client base or my customer base. So,
00:26:17
breast cancer, SPCA, all the big guys I
00:26:20
aligned with. So I would design
00:26:22
t-shirts, I would do fashion shows, I
00:26:24
would speak for them, I would do all
00:26:25
sorts of different things. So that was
00:26:26
kind of the contribution that I did. So
00:26:28
there was kind of it wasn't all about
00:26:29
the money, but there was certainly a
00:26:31
social impact footprint, but not as
00:26:33
substantive as it is today. Yeah.
00:26:35
>> Yeah. Ending up with Did you say 42
00:26:37
stores?
00:26:37
>> Yeah, we got 42. I know. I know. It was
00:26:40
massive. It was massive. So
00:26:42
>> when did you How many have you got now?
00:26:44
Today?
00:26:44
>> Eight.
00:26:45
>> Eight.
00:26:45
>> Eight. But 50% of our business is
00:26:47
online. Yeah. Yeah. So we've moved it to
00:26:49
>> Yeah. I mean, this is what we're talking
00:26:50
about before, like it's a notoriously
00:26:52
tough business and you've been so
00:26:54
resilient over so many years. Like, um,
00:26:55
yeah, when you when when you're at 42
00:26:57
stores, I'm supposing that's when retail
00:26:59
was sort of at its peak. Now, retail is
00:27:01
not what it used to be.
00:27:02
>> Well, I guess people were not shopping
00:27:04
online. So, effectively, you were just
00:27:06
looking for areas that kind of
00:27:07
replicated success stories for you. And
00:27:09
initially, I started in the rural areas
00:27:11
because I felt if I went in there and
00:27:13
was a really strong retailer, I'd
00:27:15
actually attract, you know, a strong
00:27:17
customer base. And it worked. So Havlock
00:27:19
North Cambridge um you I was in Okuni um
00:27:23
you know Wonganui Foganui I just went on
00:27:25
the perimeters of the cities I didn't
00:27:26
come into the cities until fashion week
00:27:29
um with the Aniston brand so I stayed
00:27:31
away from the cities because I felt the
00:27:32
rents were high it was harder to make
00:27:34
money um effectively I just had to make
00:27:36
50k out of each store so if I could make
00:27:39
50k um out of each store then I'd just
00:27:42
leave it alone you know I'd let it just
00:27:44
transact you know so it was so that had
00:27:46
to be that was kind of my bottom Fine.
00:27:48
>> Yeah. Yeah. There's so many stores and
00:27:51
such a smart strategy with the regions
00:27:53
and the provinces as well.
00:27:54
>> Yeah. Well, it it was by default because
00:27:56
I remember when I first decided to set
00:27:58
up my own stores, my dad was had a store
00:28:01
in Havlock North and RM Williams were in
00:28:03
there and they had pulled out and I
00:28:05
remember saying to my dad, you know,
00:28:06
like I'd like to take that store and he
00:28:08
goes, "Well, you know, you're going to
00:28:09
have to pay the rent." And I said,
00:28:10
"Yeah, I think I can pay the rent." And
00:28:11
he said, "Well, there won't be any, you
00:28:13
know, like I won't be discounting it or
00:28:14
I won't." I said, "I'm all good, Dad. I
00:28:16
can." He said, "Yes, well, you know, I
00:28:17
don't know how good you are at this with
00:28:19
the" And I said, "No, I'll I'll be all
00:28:20
good, Dad." You know, like with the He
00:28:21
said, "Yeah, okay. Well, you can have
00:28:22
it, but I want you to sign a lease." And
00:28:24
but I remember so much about him is that
00:28:27
as much as he favored who I was, he's
00:28:29
not here today, but um he um he was also
00:28:33
my biggest critic. Like I'd do a um I
00:28:35
don't know, I'd do a breakfast um TV or
00:28:38
whatever and um I'd get out of there and
00:28:40
I'd um I'd give dad a ring and I'd say,
00:28:42
"Oh, did you watch? Did you?" And he'd
00:28:44
say, "Yes, yes." And I'd say, "What did
00:28:45
you think?" and he'd go, "Do you think
00:28:47
you could smile more? [laughter] You you
00:28:49
know, you look you look like a grimace."
00:28:52
And of course, it was everyone else was
00:28:54
saying, "Oh, you did really well." But
00:28:55
dad would say, "You know, I just think
00:28:56
you should smile more." And he was
00:28:58
right. And so then I taught myself this
00:29:00
little trick that if you put your tongue
00:29:01
at the roof of your mouth, and you know,
00:29:02
you look like you're always smiling with
00:29:04
the, you know, just so many memories of
00:29:07
um just obscure stuff that came from his
00:29:10
ongoing positive sort of feedback that
00:29:13
was critical. you miss him?
00:29:16
>> Um, yes and no. Um, there was, you know,
00:29:20
he was he's not the best dad in the
00:29:22
world. He really wasn't. [laughter] So,
00:29:24
um, I don't know if he would have got
00:29:25
father of the year award, but there's
00:29:27
just lots of memories. Lots [snorts] of
00:29:28
memories.
00:29:29
>> You hear his messaging from his
00:29:32
messaging. Yeah. But more around the
00:29:33
criticism he had, you know, um, which,
00:29:36
you know, just Yeah. Some of the stuff.
00:29:38
Yeah.
00:29:38
>> Well, I suppose it's parents job.
00:29:40
They've got to be able to kick your ass,
00:29:41
but they've also got to be able to give
00:29:42
you praise when it's deserved as well.
00:29:44
>> Yeah. I think parenting now was
00:29:47
different to where it was my parents
00:29:49
were quite um you know, they weren't as
00:29:52
involved in my life um as I would have
00:29:54
liked them to be. But hey, it's just
00:29:56
they had different things happening in
00:29:58
their lives as well. So yeah, it is what
00:29:59
it is.
00:30:00
>> And you still got your mom in the the
00:30:01
business and the accounting side as we
00:30:02
alluded to earlier. That's awesome. I
00:30:04
know. So I I love that. I absolutely
00:30:06
love it, you know, and also I get to
00:30:08
obviously monitor her um in respect of
00:30:10
her wellness and where she's at and
00:30:12
yeah, knows well.
00:30:14
>> So, when those 42 stores, when did you
00:30:16
when did you start like shutting them
00:30:17
down?
00:30:18
>> Did did you did you stay in the retail
00:30:20
game too late and you started losing
00:30:22
money or did could you see where the
00:30:24
future was going?
00:30:25
>> Definitely. And I think before CO 19 um
00:30:28
that was really interesting cuz we had
00:30:30
been shutting them down. So effectively
00:30:32
they would naturally the lease would run
00:30:33
out or um in Aokuni the mountain blew
00:30:36
up. So you know just different things
00:30:37
would happen that or you just get to the
00:30:39
stage a manager would leave and you
00:30:41
think look this store is not even
00:30:42
viable. So it would give you the
00:30:44
opportunity to wrap it up um especially
00:30:46
where they would get close to or at the
00:30:47
end of their leases. I mean we had four
00:30:49
in Australia at one stage which was
00:30:51
probably one of my biggest fails um and
00:30:53
such a um you know poor decision from me
00:30:56
in respect of you know not checking that
00:30:59
market as to you know how receptive they
00:31:02
would be to our clothing. Um but yeah I
00:31:05
just they just slowly came to the end of
00:31:07
their leases. They weren't viable. They
00:31:09
weren't meeting that formula. Um and so
00:31:11
and also the city stores were a bit of a
00:31:13
drain um because the rents were so high,
00:31:16
you know, so it was harder. um to
00:31:18
actually make money and often they would
00:31:19
require two people so they were a lot
00:31:21
harder. Although in saying that Christ
00:31:23
Church is our um you know is our
00:31:25
flagship store and it's a supertore and
00:31:27
that it trades really really well. So
00:31:29
it's still there. Yeah. And Wellington's
00:31:31
been an amazing store still very much
00:31:33
there and in there and both of those
00:31:34
girls have been there sort of 12 15
00:31:37
years plus. So yeah.
00:31:38
>> What has been the toughest period in
00:31:40
business? I know I know co ended up
00:31:42
being um quite lucrative for you with
00:31:44
the
00:31:44
>> face and I say that with acknowledgement
00:31:46
to those people that really struggled
00:31:48
through that cuz um I have huge respect
00:31:50
for people um that had to deal with so
00:31:53
much through that time but it was
00:31:55
incredible for us. Yeah. Are we talking
00:31:56
about that now? [laughter]
00:31:59
>> Well, first of all, yeah, sorry that was
00:32:00
that was a double question. So yeah, the
00:32:02
global financial crisis, how was that
00:32:04
for you?
00:32:05
>> How ' 87?
00:32:07
>> No.
00:32:07
>> When was that?
00:32:08
>> No, when was that? That was like 20 208
00:32:10
209. I think that's when the the banks
00:32:12
had all these
00:32:13
>> Yeah. with the
00:32:13
>> the GFC.
00:32:14
>> Yeah. I think what happened is we our
00:32:17
our population aged. We we started to
00:32:19
lose relevance. You know, it was harder
00:32:21
to um there was still a kind of a
00:32:23
crossover happening between internet,
00:32:26
social media, um and there was still the
00:32:29
big marketing companies that you could
00:32:30
engage in that would put strategies
00:32:31
together at really strong prices to try
00:32:34
and make things work. Fashion Week was a
00:32:36
bit of a an interesting time for us
00:32:37
because we're always the misfit there.
00:32:39
You know, the the priests just love to
00:32:41
um you know really stir up kind of
00:32:43
negative stuff around us. Um which was
00:32:46
>> why
00:32:47
>> uh that's um they just they didn't they
00:32:51
never liked who we were which was
00:32:52
interesting. Um and they used to say
00:32:55
things like um of course Anna Streton
00:32:57
showed and her ladies from Mata Mata
00:32:59
they got that [snorts] wrong [laughter]
00:33:01
all turned up in their droves. Um, I
00:33:04
mean, we're not even from Mata Mata.
00:33:06
We're from Morrenville.
00:33:08
>> Not that there's anything [laughter]
00:33:08
wrong with MAT matter.
00:33:09
>> No, there's nothing wrong with MAT
00:33:10
matter, but it was more the fact they
00:33:12
couldn't even get that right when they
00:33:14
were criticizing. But I mean, I, you
00:33:16
know, showing at fashion week was the
00:33:18
most um, for the first three years it
00:33:20
was really tough because I went there
00:33:23
with high expectations um, wanting to
00:33:26
fit in, wanting to be like them. Um, you
00:33:28
know, wanting to and I wasn't, you know,
00:33:30
and I was never accepted. I was outside
00:33:32
of Oakland. I was too generic. I wasn't
00:33:34
fashionable enough. I I didn't fit, you
00:33:36
know. Um [snorts] and I remember um the
00:33:40
I think it was the third or the fourth
00:33:41
show that I did was when I put the BS
00:33:43
head on the catwalk. Um and the I
00:33:47
[snorts] remember driving up for fashion
00:33:48
week and my partner Tony saying to me,
00:33:51
you know, what are your expectations?
00:33:52
cuz I guess we were in a new
00:33:54
relationship and he kind of knew how
00:33:56
hard it was for me because I worked so
00:33:58
hard to put the show on and um I
00:34:01
endeavored to kind of fit and and I
00:34:03
couldn't and um and I had been um I had
00:34:08
been entering into WOW world of wearable
00:34:10
arts and I put the ball's head in there.
00:34:12
So um the the entry was called Beauty
00:34:15
and the Beast. So it was a bull's head
00:34:17
on a gorgeous dress and it had done
00:34:18
really well. It had made the finals so I
00:34:20
thought I'll give it another run. Um, so
00:34:22
I decided that I would open the fashion
00:34:24
week show that I call Feral Beauty. I
00:34:26
was really just having a lot of fun. Um,
00:34:28
because none of the garments ever made
00:34:29
our retail stores. They were far too
00:34:31
fancy for that. You know, we were much
00:34:33
more generic in the in the way that we
00:34:35
needed to sell stuff. And um, [gasps]
00:34:38
yeah. And I said, Tony said to me, he
00:34:41
said, "Hey, what what are the
00:34:42
expectations?" And I and I flippantly
00:34:44
said to him, "Well, front page of all
00:34:45
the main papers would be bloody
00:34:47
awesome." [laughter]
00:34:49
And we did it.
00:34:51
We did it with a huge heading that said,
00:34:53
"How's that for fashion?" It was just a
00:34:55
big shot of the bull's head and it was
00:34:56
on the Otago Daily Times. It was on the
00:34:58
Dom Post. It was right throughout the
00:35:00
country. Um, but still negatively, you
00:35:03
know, that I had to put a pig on the
00:35:04
catwalk and that the model was screaming
00:35:07
and crying. There was blood pouring out
00:35:08
of the pig's head and no [laughter]
00:35:11
[ __ ] bike helmet in it. and the model
00:35:14
was an actor and they actually had to
00:35:16
apply to to be on the to be on the the
00:35:19
you know to to to get the job to wear
00:35:21
the pig and um she was super excited you
00:35:24
know she asked if she could take it out
00:35:25
into the main area and sort of where no
00:35:28
it was nothing nothing that they said
00:35:30
and I guess that's where the media gets
00:35:31
such a bad name because it you know just
00:35:33
was so inaccurate
00:35:34
>> it's BS did did that did that criticism
00:35:36
hurt did it bo
00:35:37
>> it did initially initially it did you
00:35:39
know I really struggled with it I really
00:35:40
struggled with it um and it is um just
00:35:44
before that. It was just before that
00:35:46
show that I I think it was in um that
00:35:48
I'd sat on the beer rug and I had that
00:35:51
article in the um was in the Herald. I
00:35:53
think it was in Canvas. It was in the
00:35:55
sort of a Saturday morning slot and um
00:35:58
the Ferrari that um happened around that
00:36:01
was it was just insane. It was just
00:36:03
really really frightening. But um I had
00:36:05
sat on a beer rug to do an interview
00:36:06
which effectively um I had I had the
00:36:10
beer rug. was part of a um a commission
00:36:13
killed by the Canad Canadian um
00:36:15
government and going going gone. You
00:36:18
remember the the auction program that
00:36:19
they had which was a reality program.
00:36:21
Would you well they had asked me if I
00:36:23
would come I guess as a a profile phase
00:36:26
and bid on some of the auction items. So
00:36:27
I bought this beer rug cuz I thought
00:36:29
well I don't even want any of these
00:36:31
items. So I bought the spear rug. So
00:36:32
when canvas asked me to do the autocloth
00:36:35
I'll sit on the beer rug with my two
00:36:36
dogs. And of course as a the animal
00:36:39
activist you can imagine what happened.
00:36:41
Um and social media was around then. Um
00:36:43
and oh my god I was just and I was
00:36:46
living in toll street in Ponmbbe. I was
00:36:48
actually too scared to even go out for a
00:36:50
coffee. The stores were getting bombed
00:36:52
that it was it was actually really
00:36:53
frightening what happened there. Um and
00:36:55
it didn't matter how much I apologized
00:36:58
and said it was you know a stupid thing
00:37:00
to do or um they didn't let up. They
00:37:03
just didn't let up. And it was it became
00:37:04
more frightening for my children and for
00:37:06
you know um
00:37:07
>> How old were they at the time? [sighs]
00:37:10
>> They would have um was it 2008?
00:37:14
So
00:37:14
>> 17 years ago. Okay. So they're like
00:37:16
teenagers.
00:37:17
>> Yeah, they were teenagers. But yeah.
00:37:19
>> Um
00:37:20
>> 2018. Oh my god. All the years.
00:37:23
>> Was it a stupid mistake or was it
00:37:25
>> No, at the time. At the time I didn't
00:37:28
think because I was well known um I
00:37:30
guess his world was as well for the taxi
00:37:32
dermy and the you know and and I hadn't
00:37:35
>> interesting and Denise when you were
00:37:36
talking about this before their house is
00:37:37
full of like giraffes and things
00:37:39
>> you know I actually bought one off them.
00:37:40
I mean but god forbid anyone knows but
00:37:43
yeah I I know I didn't think it would be
00:37:45
a thing. You know I didn't do it to
00:37:47
provoke um but it was more the way that
00:37:50
you know the attack that happened. Um,
00:37:52
and I guess too, I'd see different
00:37:54
things going through the feed. Um, and
00:37:56
then people were setting up Facebook
00:37:57
sites going Anastreon hypocrite and you
00:37:59
know, like and they it was it was really
00:38:01
bad. And um, I remember seeing some of
00:38:04
my friends on the feed and I said, you
00:38:06
know, why wouldn't you stand up for me
00:38:08
or why wouldn't you say something or why
00:38:10
would they said, hell no, we want and
00:38:11
get attacked by those guys.
00:38:13
>> They said, what we were going through
00:38:15
was we don't want that. you know, it
00:38:17
sort of even scares off people um that
00:38:20
potentially know that. But yeah, it was
00:38:22
just an interesting time around there.
00:38:24
But the dates are probably slightly
00:38:25
skewed because but was certainly um and
00:38:27
the years go way too fast. But it was
00:38:29
certainly tied up um around a fashion
00:38:32
week cuz then I had to go to fashion
00:38:34
week and I was incredibly nervous about
00:38:36
what that would look like and fashion
00:38:37
week got very nervous too around, you
00:38:39
know, what that would look like for them
00:38:41
around just different people that were
00:38:43
being incredibly um vitriolic around the
00:38:46
whole thing.
00:38:48
>> [ __ ] When you go through some adversity
00:38:49
like that, you really find out who your
00:38:50
friends are. Oh, people that lean in or
00:38:52
lean out. And it's amazing because just
00:38:54
how few people actually lean in.
00:38:56
>> Oh, most of them didn't. Most of them.
00:38:58
They're too scared to, you know, when
00:38:59
you asked, I said, "Why wouldn't you
00:39:00
just say something?" Cuz they'd meet me
00:39:01
and they'd say, "Oh my god, that is just
00:39:03
so unfair." I said, "Why wouldn't you?"
00:39:04
And they just they wouldn't do it. You
00:39:07
know,
00:39:07
>> [ __ ] you off.
00:39:08
>> Well, at times, but I kind of understand
00:39:10
it. You know, I was I was, you know, I I
00:39:12
really empathize with Justinda. You
00:39:14
know, whether I like the politics or
00:39:16
not, it's probably not relevant. But
00:39:17
what I hated was the behavior and what
00:39:18
happened there on the social feeds. And
00:39:20
that was just it should never have
00:39:22
happened. And it's just disgusting that
00:39:24
we actually behave in that way and it's
00:39:27
abhorrent and everything about it is and
00:39:29
what she was subjected to. And when you
00:39:31
start to deep dive and listen to her
00:39:33
talk around some of the death threats
00:39:34
and some of the stuff she was sent and
00:39:37
um yeah, it's yeah, the the the keyboard
00:39:40
warrior um fraternity or family um is
00:39:45
you know is it's abhorrent some of the
00:39:48
stuff that happens there.
00:39:50
Yeah.
00:39:50
>> Is that the biggest adversity you've
00:39:52
gone through?
00:39:53
>> Uh yeah, it is. It is in respect of just
00:39:55
everyone having access, everyone having
00:39:56
an opinion, you know. Yeah. And also not
00:39:59
there's no consequent from their end,
00:40:01
you know, and without internet, people
00:40:03
would have to face you and say, "Hey,
00:40:05
I'm super uncomfortable with what you
00:40:07
did." Um and hear you out as well. But
00:40:09
of course, they they they don't have to.
00:40:12
>> Yeah. Pre-ocial media, they'd have to
00:40:14
write your letter. Uh sit on the bench
00:40:16
for a couple of days. Oh, they'd run
00:40:17
into you in in the supermarket or
00:40:19
somewhere and they'd say, you know, I
00:40:20
have a super uncomfortability. You know,
00:40:21
I support animals and you know, it was
00:40:23
even my son who said to me, you know,
00:40:24
mom, with the taxiderermy, I know that
00:40:26
you like it and you but if you continue
00:40:28
to buy it, you continue to create a
00:40:30
demand for it and you know, and that
00:40:32
makes me uncomfortable and I heard that,
00:40:34
you know, I heard that. So, but for you
00:40:36
know when I did that it wasn't it wasn't
00:40:39
such a you know I I guess the opinions
00:40:41
weren't and didn't appear to be as or
00:40:43
emotions and appear to run as high as I
00:40:45
would never have done it.
00:40:47
>> Yeah. But it was a tough time. [sighs]
00:40:49
>> Did have you ever come close to shutting
00:40:51
the doors?
00:40:53
>> Yes, we have. um precoid precoid um we
00:40:58
were there in a space where Sam and I
00:41:00
were talking about what the trajectory
00:41:01
of the company looked like and for the
00:41:03
last sort of four years I've been
00:41:04
propping it up financially each year. So
00:41:06
we've been making losses and I've been
00:41:08
propping up the cash flow and the reason
00:41:09
that I did that is the company I you
00:41:12
know I owed the company a lot. The
00:41:14
company had given me a great life and um
00:41:17
the company had opened a lot of doors
00:41:18
for me and was still opening a lot of
00:41:20
doors and I was actively involved in the
00:41:22
um work in the prisons as well. Um, and
00:41:25
I wasn't ready to give up. I just wasn't
00:41:27
ready to give up. And um, I remember Sam
00:41:29
saying, "Well, whether you give up or
00:41:31
not, um, I can't I can't prop it up like
00:41:33
you do. I don't have the finances. So,
00:41:35
we have to work out what we're going to
00:41:37
do." And CO 19 hit. Um, and we didn't
00:41:41
have to have that conversation anymore.
00:41:42
But yes, we were that we were pretty
00:41:44
much saying, um, let's look at how we
00:41:47
can reduce team, shut more stores, let's
00:41:50
get it back to maybe a smaller internet.
00:41:52
let's look at diversifying and that's
00:41:54
where we got into Olive's Kitchen, the
00:41:56
animal wellness business. It's been
00:41:57
phenomenal for us. Um so, you know, we
00:42:00
were starting to think about other
00:42:01
things that we could do together.
00:42:03
>> When you say propping it up, you talked
00:42:04
before about the um the glorious early
00:42:06
years.
00:42:07
>> Yeah. Well, that was years and years
00:42:08
ago. 33 years that we're looking at
00:42:10
here,
00:42:10
>> but I think this is the uh this is the
00:42:11
swing of an entrepreneur, especially in
00:42:14
um like a white knuckle industry like
00:42:16
fashion as well. You have these amazing
00:42:17
years, but also these horror years. Um,
00:42:19
how much were how much were you was it
00:42:21
costing you to prop it up?
00:42:22
>> Oh, I was probably putting in about 2 to
00:42:24
300 for a year. Like I was having to
00:42:26
find but you know the
00:42:28
>> expensive hobby.
00:42:28
>> Yeah. But the company had been really
00:42:30
good to me, you know. Um, and in 2005
00:42:32
I'd got into magazine um producing. I
00:42:35
had I bought two magazines um
00:42:37
>> and that was expensive too. So I was
00:42:39
kind of used to expensive hobbies and um
00:42:41
but for me it was more just a readiness
00:42:44
um around not being ready to let that
00:42:47
company go. you know, having done such a
00:42:48
massive journey with it, um, and loving
00:42:51
every bit of it, but knowing that I
00:42:52
didn't kind of have the skills or know
00:42:54
how to turn it around. You know, the
00:42:56
whole thing was aging. We were becoming
00:42:58
quite irrelevant. Our population was
00:43:00
moving through. I guess some of them
00:43:01
were dying. I mean, it was it was hard
00:43:04
to be relevant.
00:43:06
>> Yeah. You've mentioned CO 19 a couple of
00:43:08
times, but um, how did how did you get
00:43:10
into the masks? You [laughter] you made
00:43:12
a ton of money on masks, right?
00:43:13
>> Yeah. Well, it wasn't it didn't start
00:43:15
with money like we were having this
00:43:17
conversation around wo is me like it's
00:43:19
you know it's it's um you know where we
00:43:21
at with the company and Sam was making
00:43:22
it very clear that you know she couldn't
00:43:24
continue to do it or she wasn't doing
00:43:26
any of it but she couldn't carry on the
00:43:27
way I was but um and I said we don't
00:43:30
have to think about that now because we
00:43:32
were all going into lockdown with this.
00:43:33
So those were the announcements that
00:43:34
were being made and as soon as that
00:43:36
happened Maria English's um daughter um
00:43:39
got hold of me. So, she um rang me and
00:43:42
she said, "Hey, Anna, um how would you
00:43:44
feel about making 6,000 face masks for a
00:43:47
charity that I work with that works I
00:43:49
I'm sure it was with older disabled
00:43:50
people." And I said, "Hey, we'd be
00:43:52
really happy to do that." Um and that
00:43:54
we're all going into to lockdown. It'll
00:43:56
give us something to do. I've got 30
00:43:58
years of fabric or, you know, 28 years
00:44:00
of fabric or whatever it was. Um the
00:44:02
trims that you need, the elastics, it's
00:44:03
all here. I can do that for you. And,
00:44:05
you know, I can pretty much do that at
00:44:06
no cost for you. So, um, and that that
00:44:10
that day, I mean, we came back the next
00:44:12
day and we kind of got busy with all of
00:44:14
our, um, Morensville was getting very
00:44:16
heightened around the fact that we felt
00:44:18
that we didn't have to lock down and we
00:44:19
could just continue business as usual.
00:44:20
So, you can imagine what the community
00:44:22
pages were saying around, you know, in a
00:44:24
street and sort of um, just keeps going
00:44:26
with the um, and at the end of the day,
00:44:29
we actually took a photo, five of us
00:44:31
socially distanced in the car park with
00:44:33
the masks on um, that said, "Hey, keep
00:44:36
safe. we're making masks. Um, we'll see
00:44:38
you on the other side of it. And we
00:44:39
posted it, just an organic post, not
00:44:42
paid, not Oh my god, it just went off.
00:44:44
People were just scared. Um, with a And
00:44:46
I remember Sam ringing me late at night
00:44:48
and she said, "Mom, have you seen that
00:44:49
post?" She said, "People are actually
00:44:50
buying face masks cuz we as well as
00:44:53
making some for the charity. We'd put a
00:44:54
a small pack up online that you could
00:44:56
buy." And she said, "This is insane."
00:44:58
That we've just sold 50 packs of masks.
00:45:00
And and that was a lot for us cuz, you
00:45:01
know, a big day online for us would have
00:45:04
been 10 garments in the warehouse. So,
00:45:06
um, and so we all get to work the next
00:45:09
day and the police arrive at lunchtime
00:45:10
to shut us down. And they said, you
00:45:12
know, you can't. And I said, no, no,
00:45:14
we're in essential, you know, business.
00:45:15
We're making face masks. And she said,
00:45:16
well, there's actually a process you
00:45:18
need to go through to do that. But see,
00:45:20
the wonderful thing about my connections
00:45:22
is that I actually knew the CE of the co
00:45:25
ministry. He had come from the MSD
00:45:28
ministry. So, I got hold of him. I had
00:45:29
his mobile number. Um, and then he said,
00:45:31
"Yeah, fine. I can I can um okay you to
00:45:35
keep going. He said but you'll need to
00:45:36
get to the police. But I knew one of the
00:45:39
um very senior people in the police in
00:45:40
Wellington. So I got hold of her um and
00:45:43
she talked to Morrenville police
00:45:44
station. So we got going. [laughter]
00:45:47
>> Someone dobbed you in though. Did you
00:45:48
find any community dobbed us in like but
00:45:52
I got us going um without having to wait
00:45:54
for all the paperwork and and that was
00:45:56
just that relationship thing. you know,
00:45:57
you develop these relationship and the
00:45:59
company had done that for me and so I
00:46:00
was able to have those conversations,
00:46:02
get us open, get us cleared by the
00:46:04
police and we kept going. So, but it
00:46:06
just went from strength to strength and
00:46:09
um I guess we got to a stage when when
00:46:12
Oakland was put into lockdown um was it
00:46:15
the 12th 13th of August? And
00:46:16
>> oh, I can't remember the date. I've
00:46:17
blocked it out.
00:46:19
>> Was that the really long one?
00:46:20
>> Yeah, that was the long one. And
00:46:21
Justinda said that not only did you need
00:46:23
face masks, you needed two or three and
00:46:25
you actually should buy them for the
00:46:27
whole family and buy them for the kids.
00:46:28
And it just went insane. And I the next
00:46:32
morning um Sam came up to my office at
00:46:34
9:00 and she said, "Mom, we got to turn
00:46:35
the internet off." And I said, "Hun, we
00:46:38
don't turn the internet off. This is the
00:46:39
stuff you dream about, you know, like
00:46:41
breaking the internet on." Um, and she
00:46:43
said, "Mom, you're going to destroy your
00:46:45
brand for a few face masks." She said,
00:46:47
"You won't be able to deliver these."
00:46:48
And I said, "I just need a minute to
00:46:50
work out how I'm going to deliver
00:46:52
these." Um, and she said, "Mom, we got
00:46:53
to turn it off. It's insane. It's
00:46:55
insane. We will not be able to, and
00:46:56
these people need their masks." So, she
00:46:58
convinced me to turn it off for 12
00:47:00
hours, I think, before we turned it back
00:47:02
on. But by then, I'd already connected
00:47:03
with China, who we had really
00:47:05
established relationships with. Got the
00:47:07
masks moving and they were flying in.
00:47:09
So, I'd solved the problem.
00:47:11
>> Oh, destroy your brand because you
00:47:12
you're selling things that you don't
00:47:13
actually
00:47:13
>> Oh, we couldn't deliver them. We're
00:47:15
never going to be able to deliver them.
00:47:16
She said, "We're up to two weeks backlog
00:47:18
now." She said, "You know, we we're
00:47:20
selling thousands and thousands of masks
00:47:22
at the moment." Um, she said, "You know,
00:47:24
we can't do it." And she said, "You and
00:47:26
already the difficulty, you know, people
00:47:27
were really struggling with the fact
00:47:29
that we weren't delivering and we kept
00:47:30
moving the delivery time out." And she
00:47:32
said, you know, we have to make a good
00:47:33
decision here.
00:47:34
>> How much you making on each mask?
00:47:36
>> Oh, I don't know what I And we I mean,
00:47:38
that was we were doing it was in the
00:47:41
millions. Like, it was huge. Like,
00:47:43
>> how much of that is good business and
00:47:44
how much of it is good luck? Well, I I
00:47:46
think it was that was an opportunity
00:47:48
that I chose to say yes to because when
00:47:50
I said yes to the 6,000, I didn't want
00:47:52
any money for those. So, I just thought
00:47:54
that would keep us occupied. So, I think
00:47:56
it was just luck in that I didn't um I
00:47:59
didn't I didn't preempt that. I didn't
00:48:01
drive that. And that social post showed
00:48:03
me that there was a real demand and we
00:48:05
were a trusted brand, you know, and and
00:48:07
so we'd been around for a long time.
00:48:09
People knew how to access us. So, they
00:48:10
were happy to buy their masks of us. H I
00:48:13
I can see you sort of light up when you
00:48:15
talk about these things. You you you get
00:48:16
a real rush from business. Eh
00:48:18
>> yeah, I love business. I love business.
00:48:20
I mean, you know, the um I just Yeah, I
00:48:23
love the connections that comes from a I
00:48:24
love the wheeling and dealing. I just
00:48:26
love business. Yeah.
00:48:27
>> How do you hope the business looks say
00:48:29
20 years from now?
00:48:30
>> I think it'll be largely digital um with
00:48:33
a couple of uh flagship stores that will
00:48:37
look very different to what they look
00:48:39
you know as to how they look today. And
00:48:40
I think the Morrenville head office kind
00:48:43
of gives you an indication of what that
00:48:45
could potentially look like. So we have
00:48:47
a cafe, we have a front store, and then
00:48:50
an interconnecting door to the next
00:48:52
building, which effectively is a
00:48:54
gallery. And in that gallery, the
00:48:55
fashion shows are staged. There's some
00:48:57
huge um social impact photos of some of
00:49:00
the raw women that have come from my
00:49:01
photographic um masters that was
00:49:03
completed this year.
00:49:04
>> And then also there's the story the
00:49:07
brand
00:49:08
>> that sit there as well. So that time
00:49:10
frame we're talking about 20 21 years
00:49:11
from now you'll be you'll be your your
00:49:13
mom's age. [laughter]
00:49:15
You got longevity dead.
00:49:17
>> What do you mean?
00:49:18
>> Well I might be I mean like [laughter]
00:49:20
>> yeah I mean it's a privilege. Anyone
00:49:21
that gets to their their 80s it's very
00:49:23
lucky.
00:49:24
>> Pretty it's privilege enough to get to
00:49:25
65. I mean like hey there's a lot of
00:49:28
people that don't I mean so yeah.
00:49:30
>> Yeah. But you you'll still be presumably
00:49:33
involved in the business if you're
00:49:35
anything like your mom. Well, I think we
00:49:37
had a very kind of we had thoughts
00:49:38
around succession, but now we have
00:49:40
thoughts around building a legacy brand,
00:49:42
you know. So, what could that
00:49:42
potentially look like? The social impact
00:49:44
work is really important to us. Um, you
00:49:46
know, of re it's that's evolved and
00:49:49
evolved and evolved around, you know,
00:49:51
our potential to think differently
00:49:53
around how we detain women. You know,
00:49:55
what happens when a woman's detained?
00:49:57
Um, doesn't need to be all about the
00:49:59
penal kind of um gestures that and the
00:50:02
courses that are there. It needs to be
00:50:03
more than that. So, we need to build
00:50:05
opportunities that actually create
00:50:07
opportunities on the outside. But that's
00:50:08
another big um part of what you know the
00:50:10
work that we do. But yeah, and I I think
00:50:13
all of that work and plus the
00:50:14
photography. I mean, I'm doing a lot of
00:50:17
stuff there. There's just all sorts of
00:50:18
stuff that just piques my interest. So,
00:50:22
>> you you'll never be able to fully let it
00:50:24
go, eh? Like you're you're going to be
00:50:26
>> I think my daughter knows that. I think
00:50:28
she [laughter] knows that.
00:50:30
>> Yeah. I think she knows that.
00:50:32
So, she'll uh even though it's a
00:50:33
succession plan and she she might have
00:50:36
directions that she wants to take the
00:50:37
business in, you're never going to be
00:50:39
far from her ear, are you?
00:50:40
>> No. Well, [laughter] I I I hope that she
00:50:43
values that, too. I mean, because I
00:50:46
guess one of the things that I love are
00:50:47
difficult conversations, you know, even
00:50:49
driving up.
00:50:50
>> No one says that.
00:50:51
>> No, I know. But even driving up here, I
00:50:52
had to have a couple, you know. I mean,
00:50:55
oh, there were just a couple of people
00:50:56
that I felt um, you know, better not to
00:50:59
name and shame, but a couple of people
00:51:00
that potentially I felt should have um,
00:51:03
responded to my email and you know, and
00:51:05
as I said, is there a problem with
00:51:06
responding to my email, you know, like
00:51:08
so [laughter]
00:51:11
um, and I guess from my point of view
00:51:14
and and having them positively is really
00:51:16
important so that you're communicating
00:51:18
well um, and that you both know exactly
00:51:21
where you are. And so having those
00:51:23
difficult conversations I think gets
00:51:24
really good outcomes. Most people run
00:51:26
from them and they've been they've
00:51:28
empowered me. And I think if you don't
00:51:30
have those conversations can be quite
00:51:32
divisive. You know friendships divide,
00:51:34
relationships divide. Um you know
00:51:37
employee employer relationships kind of
00:51:39
sour. You know there's difficulty
00:51:40
because everybody feels that it's a bit
00:51:42
of genderized and they don't get the
00:51:43
handle on both perspectives. So for me
00:51:46
though being a bit of a master in
00:51:48
difficult conversations has has paid off
00:51:50
in spades.
00:51:52
I feel like um strong strong females are
00:51:56
you're more sort of respected and
00:51:57
appreciated now. But I you know I feel
00:51:59
like in the last century maybe not so
00:52:00
much. You must have been called all
00:52:02
sorts of names like a ball breaker.
00:52:04
[laughter]
00:52:05
You know the thing is you don't hear
00:52:06
them because people don't say
00:52:09
no tough tough females in the in the 80s
00:52:12
and 90s. Yeah. It was uh yeah it was
00:52:15
there was some quite nasty names thrown
00:52:17
around.
00:52:17
>> Yeah, there was. I, you know, I've never
00:52:19
really experienced um, you know, real
00:52:22
difficulty around men and not being
00:52:24
accepted because I never had to be
00:52:26
accepted. You know, I was just kind of
00:52:27
charting my own course and doing my own
00:52:29
thing and it was working for me. So, I
00:52:32
never really encountered that kind of
00:52:33
stereotype around those that white male
00:52:37
um that was, you know, too dominant. Um
00:52:39
and interesting because I belong to a
00:52:41
group called the global woman, not
00:52:42
global warming but global women which
00:52:44
are a group of highly capable women in
00:52:47
this country. Um and and I guess some of
00:52:49
their challenges is you know really
00:52:51
closing that gap. Um but it's not a gap
00:52:54
I've ever experienced. You know I've
00:52:55
always been able to um you know be at
00:52:58
the top of my game you know um and
00:53:00
achieve what I want to achieve. I I
00:53:02
totally believe that you know one of the
00:53:04
things I believe in the most is a no is
00:53:06
never a no. you know, it's just a maybe
00:53:08
or it's just a no waiting to be turned
00:53:09
into a yes. Yeah. It's never a no
00:53:11
forever. So, um, and failure is kind of
00:53:14
the foundation stone of my success. So,
00:53:16
when I'm, um, tripping and falling, I'm
00:53:19
actually achieving way more. So, and
00:53:20
it's interesting at the moment I'm doing
00:53:22
a small diploma at Southern Institute of
00:53:24
Technology in photography to kind of um,
00:53:26
amplify the technical skills that I
00:53:28
have. loving it, but some of my marks
00:53:31
are [ __ ] and [laughter]
00:53:33
and I kind of love that, you know,
00:53:35
because
00:53:37
they are really bad and, you know, and
00:53:40
the the tutor who's got like um because
00:53:42
SIT is free. Um they got about 60
00:53:44
students that are all online and he's,
00:53:46
you know, they're sort of monoyic
00:53:48
answers, you know, who will say, you
00:53:50
know, this you couldn't get this right
00:53:51
or you couldn't get that right. But it's
00:53:53
taught me so much, you know, and I'm
00:53:55
handing stuff on on time. I'm listening
00:53:57
to what they're saying. I'm hearing it,
00:53:59
you know, it's making me better at my
00:54:00
craft. And so, I guess that humility is
00:54:03
really important. You know, I never want
00:54:05
to be too big for my boots ever, you
00:54:07
know. I always want to have that level
00:54:09
of humility that I, you know, just can
00:54:11
accept there's a lot of things I can't
00:54:12
do and I, you know, and there's some of
00:54:14
those things I'd really like to do.
00:54:16
>> Oh. Um, one thing I forgot to mention,
00:54:18
just going back, um, in 2009 you were
00:54:21
named a member of the New Zealand Order
00:54:23
of Merit for Services to Fashion and
00:54:24
Business.
00:54:25
>> That's a long time ago. How? Yeah. Was
00:54:28
that special?
00:54:29
>> Yeah, it was. I think what was more
00:54:31
special was winning the Verve Cleico
00:54:33
business woman of the year and I think
00:54:34
that was 2008 or 2009 as well because I
00:54:37
got to um I was with um there was in a
00:54:40
very esteemed group that I was up
00:54:42
against and I I won that and I ended up
00:54:44
in Europe um and I went to um Verico's
00:54:49
um headquarters and we were hosted by
00:54:51
them in Europe um for about four or five
00:54:53
days and that was phenomenal. absolutely
00:54:56
phenomenal um in the space they hosted
00:54:58
plus we we were we met with winners from
00:55:00
right around the world from a whole lot
00:55:01
of different countries so there's a
00:55:02
busload of us and they hosted not only
00:55:04
ourselves and our partners so they flew
00:55:06
us all business um to Europe and hosted
00:55:09
so there's been some and I I met some
00:55:11
incredible people um not that I've
00:55:13
stayed in touch but I guess um that in
00:55:16
those days I would have probably had
00:55:17
imposter syndrome and like you know am I
00:55:19
good enough to be here you know these
00:55:20
people are but and there was also um I
00:55:23
made the finalist for New Zealand er of
00:55:25
the year I think 2018 and 2019. So
00:55:28
there's been you know there's been some
00:55:30
wonderful kind of um accolades from you
00:55:33
know my own country both in business and
00:55:34
both in lifestyle.
00:55:36
>> These accolades um more special given
00:55:39
the the sort of you know backlash you've
00:55:40
had or
00:55:42
>> Yeah. You know what's special? What's
00:55:43
special is the work that I do in the
00:55:45
prisons. What's special is actually
00:55:47
seeing like we've got women that have
00:55:49
brought their own businesses that we've
00:55:50
helped them. Um we've got women that are
00:55:52
about to embark on PhDs. We've got these
00:55:54
are women that have spent you know
00:55:56
considerable time inside like recidivist
00:55:58
and complex offenders and they've
00:56:00
actually reframed my whole life. They've
00:56:01
reframed what success looks like for me.
00:56:03
They've reframe what's important. No.
00:56:05
And that's what's special. Not not the
00:56:08
you know the awards are not they're nice
00:56:10
but you know um the learnings you know
00:56:12
the I love getting back into the
00:56:14
academia you know cuz I wasn't very good
00:56:15
at it. You know I don't I don't write
00:56:18
academically enough. I don't speak
00:56:19
academically enough but I had to to get
00:56:21
corrections to listen to me. I really
00:56:23
had to.
00:56:24
>> Yeah, I'm I'm probably projecting here.
00:56:26
But like if if I was in your position
00:56:29
and I had you know people in the
00:56:30
industry that frowned upon me for you
00:56:32
have being you regional or provincial
00:56:34
based or being generic or whatever and
00:56:36
then you get these accolades like the
00:56:38
Verve Cleco award or the um order of
00:56:41
merit thing. I'd be like see [ __ ] you. I
00:56:42
am good enough. [laughter]
00:56:44
>> I am. I didn't after after three years
00:56:46
like it was it was difficult you know
00:56:48
the first three years at fashion week
00:56:51
and Oakland with those fashion designers
00:56:53
that um were you know the creme de la
00:56:56
creme you know Karen Walker Kate
00:56:57
Sylvester Trillis Cooper you know Zambzi
00:57:00
that and here's Annen you know really
00:57:02
trying to fit in and I didn't and I
00:57:05
didn't and and for 3 years I tried so
00:57:07
hard I tried so hard and um the industry
00:57:10
was mean you know it was mean and um I
00:57:13
didn't I didn't fit Um, but you know, I
00:57:15
I remember one moment I was at an event
00:57:17
and Kate Sylvester's husband came up to
00:57:20
me. That's that's the only time, the
00:57:22
first time, the only time. And he he
00:57:23
said to me, "Hey, Anna." And he
00:57:24
introduced himself and I said, "Yeah,
00:57:26
hi." And he said, "Hey, um, super
00:57:29
impressed by what you're doing, you
00:57:30
know, um, it's awesome." And that was
00:57:32
all based around some of the raw work,
00:57:34
you know, and the social impact work.
00:57:35
And he said, you know, just just
00:57:37
awesome. I take my hat off to you. And I
00:57:39
thought, what a nice acknowledgement.
00:57:40
And that's the only person in the whole
00:57:42
industry that's [laughter]
00:57:44
we don't as an industry we don't even
00:57:45
connect. We don't socialize together. We
00:57:47
don't work together. We don't we don't
00:57:49
praise each other. You know, we don't we
00:57:51
just don't.
00:57:52
>> Is that a wonder if that's like a
00:57:54
scarcity mindset? Like like a fan is
00:57:57
doing well, it means I can't do well. Or
00:57:58
if you know what I mean rather than
00:58:00
being more more of a inclusive
00:58:02
collective.
00:58:03
>> I don't know. I don't know what it is.
00:58:04
So even when we're all showing at
00:58:06
fashion week and we're all down, they
00:58:07
were all together. There was different
00:58:08
events. there wasn't a connection
00:58:10
between us all, you know. Um, for about
00:58:13
three years, I actually brought um,
00:58:14
Adrien Howwood. So, I owned half his
00:58:17
company. Um, and we worked together to
00:58:19
sort of try and change the outcome for
00:58:21
him. But it was too hard. It was just
00:58:23
too hard to do that. And as I said to
00:58:24
him, I can't get you profitable, you
00:58:26
know, because the space that you work
00:58:28
in, it's just so small. It's so hard.
00:58:30
And I said, I'm going to walk away, but
00:58:31
I'm happy to hand back your company. And
00:58:34
um, I said, where are you going with it?
00:58:35
He said, well, I just love it. And and I
00:58:37
respect that. He said, "I just love, you
00:58:39
know, what I do." And he's good at what
00:58:41
he does, but it's hard to make money out
00:58:42
of him. It's hard to make money. And we
00:58:44
still have good positive contact. I was
00:58:46
talking to the the other day, but that
00:58:48
was my first foray into um kind of that
00:58:50
top end of, you know, um you know,
00:58:53
fashion and what it was. So,
00:58:55
>> well, at the beginning of this chat, I I
00:58:56
I said I thought your name was a brand
00:58:58
like in the same sort of um ecosystem as
00:59:01
uh as you Kate, Karen, and Triss. Will
00:59:04
they be bothered by that? [laughter]
00:59:05
>> No, I don't. you know, you'd have to ask
00:59:07
them. Um, but it doesn't matter anymore.
00:59:10
I think, you know, as you go through
00:59:12
this journey, you sit so much more
00:59:14
comfortably in your own skin. I'm super
00:59:15
comfortable with who I am. I'm super
00:59:18
comfortable around the stuff that drives
00:59:20
me, but more around the integrity that I
00:59:23
bring to every conversation, the truism,
00:59:25
you know, um, just how, you know, I'm
00:59:27
completely honest, you know, around
00:59:29
probably sometimes too much my own good
00:59:31
bit.
00:59:31
>> Well, that's the thing, isn't it? You've
00:59:33
you've you've got to be happy with the
00:59:34
person that you look at in the mirror.
00:59:36
>> Yeah. And I am I am, you know, and
00:59:38
that's that's a nice space to get to cuz
00:59:40
I don't know if a lot of us get there.
00:59:42
You know, there's still an
00:59:43
uncomfortability, but I don't have to be
00:59:45
them. I have to be me, you know. I have
00:59:47
to be me.
00:59:48
>> Yeah.
00:59:48
>> And fashion week's kind of long gone for
00:59:50
me. I'm not showing there now.
00:59:51
>> Yeah. You've mentioned RAW a lot.
00:59:53
Reclaim other women. And I've got a
00:59:55
whole section on that because I'm I'm
00:59:56
intrigued about this. Um, first of all,
00:59:58
we've got some Instagram questions.
00:59:59
>> Yeah. [laughter]
01:00:01
>> I see on Instagram you're coming. So, we
01:00:02
got some questions here. Okay.
01:00:03
>> Um, if Instagram existed back when you
01:00:07
started, how different would your rise
01:00:09
have been?
01:00:11
[snorts]
01:00:11
>> I don't know because Instagram Instagram
01:00:14
is not a strong platform for us, you
01:00:16
know. Um, Facebook is a lot stronger and
01:00:18
that's because our market is older. So,
01:00:20
we're working with 50 plus and she's
01:00:22
much more aligned with um with Facebook.
01:00:25
I think Instagram's much more my
01:00:26
daughter's driver around covering all
01:00:29
those platforms um and introducing the
01:00:31
brand to a diversity of age groups. So,
01:00:33
I don't know if it would have been I
01:00:34
don't know if it would have been.
01:00:36
>> If you had to launch a fashion brand
01:00:37
today with no no contacts and no money,
01:00:40
what's the first thing you'd do?
01:00:43
>> Oh, I just I I would do it online. Like
01:00:45
I have a small um I have a small sort of
01:00:48
um not for-p profofit company called
01:00:49
Fish Digital um where I help small
01:00:52
businesses actually start. um I was
01:00:54
mentoring a lot of them and just found
01:00:55
it was easier to put it into that space.
01:00:56
But um you know I would start with a um
01:01:00
you know it would be a digital platform
01:01:02
where I would just work through the
01:01:03
process around how I was going to start
01:01:05
to engage. And a lot of that I'd
01:01:06
probably do across community pages you
01:01:08
know to start to activate awareness and
01:01:10
imagery which um I guess they get a
01:01:12
little exhausted by that. Hence the one
01:01:14
post a week that everyone's allowed to
01:01:15
do [laughter] but it seems to be the
01:01:17
best way to reach a diversity of people.
01:01:19
But yeah it would be a digital footprint
01:01:20
that I would I wouldn't I wouldn't do it
01:01:22
physically. Yeah,
01:01:23
>> I would not do it physically.
01:01:24
>> How can a new New Zealand designer
01:01:26
compete with online fast fashion?
01:01:29
>> Well, I don't know. I I think that's one
01:01:31
of the hardest things to do, you know.
01:01:33
Um, as far as the um Thank you for that.
01:01:37
>> Yeah, it's it gets hot in here.
01:01:38
>> It does.
01:01:39
>> If it gets too cold with the air blowing
01:01:40
down, it's all good. Um, I think, you
01:01:44
know, I don't know. I don't know if you
01:01:45
should set out to compete. I think you
01:01:47
should set out to actually know that
01:01:48
there is a market for what you want to
01:01:50
do. um and work out where you break
01:01:51
evens and what you want to achieve from
01:01:53
that and just start to build your
01:01:55
business from that rather than saying
01:01:56
well I you know because you've got so
01:01:58
many markets now whether it be T-Mu
01:02:00
whether it be shine whether it be
01:02:01
they're massive you know and then
01:02:03
there's um and those are are working
01:02:05
across these the sort of the the
01:02:06
affordable end but then you've got all
01:02:08
the other brands that are working too so
01:02:11
um I think for the goal would be to
01:02:12
actually see that you actually I think
01:02:14
the bigger thing with people is they
01:02:15
don't actually ascertain they've got a
01:02:16
market you know you might like it and
01:02:17
your mom might like it and your best
01:02:18
friend might like your designy But, you
01:02:20
know, is there enough to build a
01:02:22
business off that?
01:02:23
>> You know, and fashion is such a crowded
01:02:25
space, but a lot of spaces are crowded.
01:02:27
You've just got to work out how you're
01:02:28
going to stand out.
01:02:31
>> I suppose you've got more of that
01:02:32
business sensibility than a lot of
01:02:33
people do. A lot of people think it's,
01:02:35
you know, the fashion and the art, but
01:02:36
you've always had that sort of business
01:02:38
um lens.
01:02:40
>> Totally. And I bring it to everything,
01:02:42
you know. um it'll be I'll be kind of
01:02:44
working on product or I'll be thinking
01:02:46
about something and the price point
01:02:48
becomes part of the design focus. So if
01:02:50
I know that I can't get that for a
01:02:52
particular price, I there are times
01:02:54
where I just look I'm not going to do
01:02:55
it. I'm not going to do it. The you know
01:02:57
I know where the sweet spot is for our
01:03:00
market around price. I know where I can
01:03:01
sell a lot versus where I'll struggle.
01:03:05
>> Well, you've had you've been doing it
01:03:06
for decades. [laughter]
01:03:08
>> Literally.
01:03:08
>> You are the you literally are the brand.
01:03:10
>> Yeah, I am the brand. And that's what's
01:03:12
kind of nice too. It's nice just having
01:03:14
a conversation with you being a person,
01:03:16
you know, not being the brand. I am a
01:03:18
person, you know. Um it's nice sometimes
01:03:20
to go into a store and just talk to
01:03:22
people, but it's kind of a little bit
01:03:24
daunting [snorts] for them, you know,
01:03:25
like um my daughter will say to me,
01:03:27
"Mom, if when you jump on the the Zooms
01:03:29
for an interview or whatever, cuz I'll
01:03:30
say to her, look, I'll help you with the
01:03:32
second interview." She said, "People
01:03:33
just freeze, you know, you just see the
01:03:36
way that people react and they don't do
01:03:38
that with me. So it actually makes it
01:03:40
but you know at the end of the day I'm a
01:03:42
person and yes yes I am the brand as
01:03:44
well.
01:03:44
>> Yeah. What's been the most humiliating
01:03:47
moment in your career that you can laugh
01:03:48
about now?
01:03:49
>> Is [laughter] there anything that
01:03:50
springs to
01:03:51
>> I think yeah I think the Sam and Libby
01:03:52
moment was probably the most humiliating
01:03:54
because when I think about how stupid
01:03:57
that is. I mean and as you say you would
01:03:59
never even consider it now. you might
01:04:02
you take an idea and you think but yeah
01:04:04
that um but I think when I look back on
01:04:06
that and yeah I just think oh my god you
01:04:09
know what were you thinking as opposed
01:04:10
to the beer rug I don't know if I could
01:04:12
have done that differently because I you
01:04:14
know I was really in the space of think
01:04:16
you know that was I I didn't think for
01:04:19
one moment that would blow up like it
01:04:20
did.
01:04:21
>> Yeah.
01:04:22
>> Yeah. It's tough that eh when you when
01:04:24
you reflect on something like that and
01:04:25
you wonder yeah you what I could have
01:04:26
done differently and all this
01:04:28
>> and that's what's important that you
01:04:30
reflect on that and make the change um
01:04:33
take the learnings but then just move
01:04:34
forward you know move forward don't
01:04:36
don't kind of hang around in it because
01:04:37
it's it doesn't serve you
01:04:40
>> sometimes easier said than done though
01:04:42
how long did it take you to get over
01:04:43
that
01:04:43
>> a lot a lot because I used to pride
01:04:45
myself I used to initially in the early
01:04:47
days I call it thinking like a man
01:04:49
>> you know like a very black men they
01:04:51
appear to be very black and white around
01:04:53
being able to disconnect from something.
01:04:54
And I think sometimes it's just called
01:04:56
avoidance. It's better not to engage
01:04:58
because it might just go away. Um but
01:05:00
for me, I used to say it's thinking like
01:05:02
a man. I kind of transgression that into
01:05:04
a very black and white thinking. But now
01:05:06
I've kind of learned a skill. So if
01:05:08
something's playing in my mind, um I'll
01:05:10
actually say, "Can you do anything about
01:05:12
this? Or would you have changed the way
01:05:13
that you would have behaved or would you
01:05:14
have done this differently?" And I
01:05:16
answer myself. And then based on that
01:05:18
answer, I go, "Right, stop. Stop." And
01:05:21
then if it comes back into my mind, I'll
01:05:23
go stop.
01:05:24
>> You need to stop now. And I can I can
01:05:27
actually move myself away from it.
01:05:29
>> How's it that discipline, you know, it's
01:05:32
>> Yeah, it's a it's a it's a learned
01:05:34
thing. Um and I suppose it gets better
01:05:36
with practice
01:05:37
>> very much. Um I did a um it was it's
01:05:40
empower therapies, but it's now called
01:05:42
the switch or but it's about how you
01:05:44
harness your mind and how you actually
01:05:46
and through that I learned how to
01:05:48
actually move on from I was asthmatic.
01:05:50
I'm not now. Um I learned how to flick a
01:05:53
switch. So I can do things like I can be
01:05:55
in a space and I'll um I might have
01:05:58
hiccups and if I stop and I go like you
01:06:01
can either choose to do these hiccups or
01:06:03
you can choose to shift them through. I
01:06:04
can actually move them. So that's how
01:06:07
powerful the mind is. I can do things
01:06:09
like that. But you have to be really
01:06:11
focused on it. You have to be in the
01:06:13
space to be able to do it. And I can do
01:06:14
it with a headache. I can say you can
01:06:16
either do this headache or you can shift
01:06:18
it. No, [laughter] no, this is fake
01:06:20
news.
01:06:21
>> No, it's not. I can shift it. I can
01:06:24
shift it. The problem that I get is
01:06:25
sometimes I just get too busy and can't
01:06:27
be bothered to actually be in the moment
01:06:29
and focusing on the headache and
01:06:31
shifting it and then I just reach for a
01:06:33
neuropen or whatever and I pop it. But
01:06:35
um I can definitely do it with asthma. I
01:06:37
can move it like real quick.
01:06:39
>> That's amazing.
01:06:40
>> Yeah. But it's just it's the power of
01:06:41
the mind. It's really strong. And that's
01:06:43
and that comes back to me thinking about
01:06:46
something that's happened that's
01:06:47
particularly traumatic or difficult.
01:06:49
You've got to be able to process it. It
01:06:50
starts to define you.
01:06:52
>> How's how's your mental health been over
01:06:54
the years?
01:06:55
>> Good. And my father was a committed
01:06:57
patient for a lot of his life. Was he?
01:06:59
>> Yeah. So severe depression.
01:07:01
>> No. Um bipolar. So he mostly high.
01:07:05
Mostly high. But um extremely
01:07:08
intelligent man. um sort of sits on the
01:07:10
cusp of um that circle where you have
01:07:12
the idiot and the genius right up the
01:07:14
top that we see. But yeah, he um so I've
01:07:17
lived in a space where I've witnessed um
01:07:20
you know there's been a huge mental
01:07:21
health journey attached to um I chose to
01:07:24
live with dad from when I was 15.
01:07:27
>> So it was a pretty lawless life,
01:07:30
>> you know.
01:07:31
>> In what way?
01:07:32
>> I was allowed to do anything I wanted to
01:07:33
do at 15,
01:07:35
>> you know. So, I kind of had this freedom
01:07:38
that was I could have gone either way
01:07:39
really. Um, that's beyond what a lot of
01:07:42
um people should have at 15.
01:07:43
>> Did Did you exploit it or were you a
01:07:45
good kid?
01:07:46
>> No, I wasn't good, but I wasn't
01:07:47
extremely bad. You know, I was, you
01:07:49
know, I was out late. I was um spent too
01:07:52
much time focusing on boys, you know,
01:07:54
all that stuff. But I've never ever um
01:07:57
you know, I've taken drugs, but I've
01:07:59
never taken meth. I know everything
01:08:00
about meth and I've been exposed,
01:08:02
[laughter]
01:08:02
but I've you know, there's there's a lot
01:08:04
of things that I've done. um a lot of
01:08:06
things that I've done but um yeah and
01:08:08
that was part of just um not having
01:08:10
really strong parental guidelines from
01:08:12
15.
01:08:13
>> Yeah. So that could have gone either way
01:08:14
for me.
01:08:15
>> Yeah. From Instagram uh what traits
01:08:18
separate a successful entrepreneur uh to
01:08:20
one that doesn't make it? [snorts]
01:08:22
>> Oh I think self-belief um an absolute
01:08:25
discipline um an ability to come up with
01:08:27
solutions um knowing that failure
01:08:29
doesn't define you. Um there's so many
01:08:31
things. Um but realistically it was
01:08:34
interesting with um u my daughter and I
01:08:36
were cuz we've started a small podcast
01:08:38
series um with the just talking about
01:08:40
sort of the more humorous and different
01:08:42
aspects of the company and she was
01:08:45
saying you know the one thing about you
01:08:46
is you're so robust when stuff happens
01:08:48
you know you keep going you know you
01:08:50
keep believing or and it just for me
01:08:52
means the idea may not be bad I've just
01:08:55
got to reframe it or I've got to rethink
01:08:57
or I've got to try it again. Um, you
01:09:00
know, and generally some ideas take a
01:09:02
bit longer to get off, but it is about
01:09:03
backing yourself. You've got to really
01:09:05
back yourself, but you've also got to
01:09:06
know when to let go when the idea is
01:09:07
dodge.
01:09:09
>> Are you good at letting go or
01:09:10
>> Yeah, I am. Because I set up a wellness
01:09:13
retreat in Tiata after several trips to
01:09:15
Gongana on the Gold Coast. um and
01:09:17
thought you and so I convinced my sister
01:09:19
to partner with me and buy a home in
01:09:22
Tiataha where we were going to kind of
01:09:24
um work with the rich and fabulous um
01:09:26
and provide the Guangana equivalent in
01:09:28
Tiara the hot springs and the mountain
01:09:30
and the
01:09:30
>> I mean god what a fail I mean it was a
01:09:33
massive fail I mean because people
01:09:34
didn't really want to come so after um
01:09:37
sort of many complimentary stays that we
01:09:39
issued we realized it was over and it
01:09:41
was easy enough to kind of just close it
01:09:43
up and walk from it it's now the home
01:09:45
that RAW owns Okay.
01:09:46
>> So, we use we utilize that home for the
01:09:49
women that exit and their first path of
01:09:51
entry is into that home.
01:09:52
>> Oh, you mentioned just before you've
01:09:54
started a podcast. I I listened to the
01:09:55
first episode as well, you and your
01:09:57
daughter. Yeah. Get a plug in for it for
01:09:59
anyone anyone that's listening to this.
01:10:01
>> Well, you inspired me to do it. I just
01:10:03
thought, you know, it'd be good to kind
01:10:04
of talk about because I get asked a lot
01:10:06
of the questions, especially around
01:10:08
business, you know, um especially around
01:10:10
creative business. And I guess the thing
01:10:12
is there's points of tension between Sam
01:10:13
and I. We were um p uh we were cut we
01:10:16
were recording yesterday and um we got
01:10:19
into a bit of a spat and I said you know
01:10:21
we just should stop we should stop and
01:10:22
work out [laughter] because this is what
01:10:25
you know this is where I believe it is
01:10:26
and this is where you believe it is so
01:10:27
let's talk about it let's talk about it
01:10:29
and start again so we managed to work
01:10:31
that out you know and just um because
01:10:33
she's kind of wanting to keep it very
01:10:34
light very buoyant very um
01:10:36
>> but for me I'm kind of um there's more
01:10:39
to that to me than just humor and silly
01:10:42
stuff
01:10:43
>> and fail else. Yeah. So there's there's
01:10:46
more messaging.
01:10:46
>> Yeah. So what's the name of the podcast?
01:10:48
>> Um it's straighten it's straight and
01:10:50
unfiltered.
01:10:51
>> Yeah.
01:10:51
>> Yeah.
01:10:52
>> Yeah. So I found that super inspiring
01:10:53
cuz here you are as as we alluded to
01:10:56
before retirement age.
01:10:57
>> Um and
01:10:59
lesson What is retirement age now? Is it
01:11:02
Yeah.
01:11:02
>> Well, my legal definition, but is it an
01:11:04
age or is it a mindset?
01:11:05
>> Mindset completely. But yeah, here you
01:11:07
are. You're still looking for new ways
01:11:09
to grow and expand the business.
01:11:11
>> Absolutely. Um definitely. um and sort
01:11:14
of um seeding and playing with new
01:11:16
business ideas as well. So there's all
01:11:18
sorts of stuff around me. I mean,
01:11:19
Olive's Kitchen was only set up 5 years
01:11:20
ago and that's had phenomenal growth and
01:11:22
that's a dog wellness business that we
01:11:24
worked on and that was just me as a
01:11:26
crazy person trying to solve a cancer
01:11:28
journey for a dog that I loved and that
01:11:30
I wasn't prepared to take them down the
01:11:32
pharmaceutical route anymore. You know,
01:11:34
I was really looking for holistic
01:11:35
outcomes. Um and I managed to kind of
01:11:38
then um accidentally a friend asked if
01:11:41
she could um have the recipe or the food
01:11:43
that I was using. I was around at her
01:11:44
place one afternoon and said, "What is
01:11:46
that bag of stuff?" And she said, "Well,
01:11:48
that's all the stuff you told me to use.
01:11:49
I just put it in a bag." And so the
01:11:51
supplement was born, you know, and that
01:11:53
supplement's just gone from strength to
01:11:55
strength. And that was just me trying to
01:11:56
solve a problem based on an innate love
01:11:58
for this dog um and just not being
01:12:01
prepared to do it um in that
01:12:02
pharmaceutical way.
01:12:03
>> Wonderful.
01:12:05
Um that probably closes the chapter on
01:12:08
um Anna Streton the fashion site and the
01:12:11
the business woman. Um now I've got a
01:12:13
section about war reclaim another woman.
01:12:15
Yeah.
01:12:15
>> Uh which is a charitable in initiative
01:12:17
supporting women out of prison for to to
01:12:20
reintegrate them into society. Um why
01:12:24
>> why um
01:12:25
>> yeah what's what's your why? Was there a
01:12:26
personal connection?
01:12:27
>> That's a great question. Um I guess no
01:12:29
there's not. Um, and I guess that sets
01:12:32
me apart because a lot of people do get
01:12:33
involved in charitable initiatives based
01:12:35
on something that's happened to them and
01:12:36
they're particularly passionate about it
01:12:37
and they want to do differently to um,
01:12:40
change the experience that they've had
01:12:41
within that sector. For me, um, I set up
01:12:44
a foundation in 2013 and that was really
01:12:47
around wanting to control my own
01:12:48
outcomes. You know, working with the big
01:12:50
guys and giving the money. Um, I had a
01:12:52
kind of a a a tricky moment where I had
01:12:55
just given quite a sizable check to one
01:12:57
of the breast cancer charities and a
01:12:59
woman approached me and said she was
01:13:00
cycling around New Zealand to raise
01:13:01
awareness for breast cancer and could I
01:13:04
give her $1,000 for to help her? And I
01:13:06
said, "I've just given this massive
01:13:07
check to to this charity. Um, you know,
01:13:10
I'll just get them to give you cuz it's
01:13:12
only $1,000 and it was and she said,
01:13:14
"Yeah, that'd be great." And I
01:13:16
approached them. I said, "Oh, no, Anna,
01:13:17
that's not what it doesn't work like
01:13:18
that. you know, you don't just get your
01:13:19
money out and you don't just and I
01:13:21
thought, well, hey, I want to control my
01:13:23
own money now. And so, it was kind of a
01:13:25
learning thing and often things happen
01:13:27
for a reason. So, I set up my
01:13:28
foundation.
01:13:29
>> Didn't know what I was going to do. Had
01:13:31
this wonderful woman arrive at a table a
01:13:33
bit like this. Um, the CEO of Wakata
01:13:36
Women's Refuge, Fakura Duho, Ronnie
01:13:38
Albert, um, who's now become one of my
01:13:40
strongest friends. And the refuge was um
01:13:44
in strife financially and she was they
01:13:46
were looking for just different ways of
01:13:48
how they could continue. Um and in those
01:13:50
days you sort of when you got into a
01:13:51
difficult spot you'd actually go to the
01:13:53
papers and say look if we don't get
01:13:55
funding we're going to close the doors
01:13:56
and this is the community that we're
01:13:58
servicing each and every day. So it's
01:13:59
not an option for us to close. So I
01:14:01
decided that I would work with them. Um
01:14:04
but more around a curiosity to actually
01:14:06
work with Mai because I was so kind of I
01:14:09
guess I use words like um uh you know I
01:14:13
was so biased around you know who Mai
01:14:16
were and just you know how they were
01:14:18
tracking in this country but had so and
01:14:20
had zero knowledge zero knowledge cuz my
01:14:22
dad was that typical white western male
01:14:26
and so I got involved with refuge not
01:14:29
only from the point of view as I still
01:14:30
chair them today so I'm the chair of the
01:14:32
governance board that I set out for
01:14:33
them. Um, we got them financially really
01:14:35
strong. We started down a whole of
01:14:37
different pathways. So, we achieved what
01:14:38
they wanted to achieve. But I also made
01:14:40
a connection to Midm. So, that was
01:14:41
through the safe houses and there was a
01:14:43
young girl in the safe house that wanted
01:14:44
a deeper connection with me. She was
01:14:46
interested in fashion and so she was
01:14:47
just kind of opportunistic. It was a
01:14:50
meeting or a coffee with her where I
01:14:52
said, "Hey," and it was such a stupid
01:14:54
thing to say. I said, "Hey, I guess your
01:14:55
life was a bit like Once Were Warriors."
01:14:57
Um, and I said, and she goes, and I go,
01:15:00
"But you know, that movie wasn't real,
01:15:01
was But you know that sort of stuff
01:15:02
doesn't happen in New Zealand. She said,
01:15:04
"Anna, if my life had been like that, it
01:15:06
would have been a good life cuz he
01:15:07
didn't hit his kids."
01:15:09
>> And I thought, "Wow." And that's where
01:15:11
RAW came from because I dropped her off
01:15:13
and I was driving back to work and I
01:15:14
just felt so raw, you know. I thought,
01:15:16
"How stupid can someone be, you know,
01:15:19
just having and that's why I love
01:15:20
listening to Matt Brown, you know, when
01:15:22
you had him on with them."
01:15:23
>> That powerful episode, that one.
01:15:25
>> Yeah, it was brilliant. It was
01:15:26
brilliant. I mean, it even had me stop
01:15:28
and not drive up the drive, you know,
01:15:30
cuz I just wanted to hear the end, you
01:15:31
know. So, I'm one of these weird people
01:15:33
that I was so engrossed in my thought. I
01:15:35
even heard you saying at the end, and if
01:15:37
you're still listening to this, you are
01:15:39
a diehard fan. And I thought I was a
01:15:40
diehard fan of that episode.
01:15:43
>> But, um, yeah. So, I I felt so raw. And
01:15:46
so, that's how Raw was born. I thought,
01:15:48
oh, I thought, how can I create
01:15:50
something that was not about giving
01:15:53
fish, it was about teaching people to
01:15:55
fish, you know? How can I teach Crystal,
01:15:57
and she doesn't mind me using her name
01:15:58
cuz we still connect today. We were
01:16:00
coffeeing on Friday together. Um,
01:16:03
[sighs]
01:16:04
how can I um teach, you know, a girl
01:16:07
like Crystal Fish? So, RAW was born. We
01:16:09
built the model. We started in the
01:16:10
refuge, you know, endeavoring to kind of
01:16:12
navigate um opportunities for women, but
01:16:14
they weren't in a space to actually look
01:16:16
at opportunities cuz they were still
01:16:18
trying to work out what the hell was
01:16:19
happening because they were in a state
01:16:20
of crisis. So that's when I transferred
01:16:22
the model to the women's prisons because
01:16:24
I realized that um women that have been
01:16:26
to prison weren't scary because I'd met
01:16:28
a lot that were using the services of
01:16:30
refuge and I also saw that as a space
01:16:32
where women were stable you know they
01:16:34
were free from the drugs free from the
01:16:36
distractions and they might be thinking
01:16:38
about making changes or doing something
01:16:41
differently or you know in those days I
01:16:43
saw myself as a bit of a savior you know
01:16:45
really which I don't today [laughter]
01:16:47
but you know I could get them all to
01:16:48
live lives like mine and that it would
01:16:50
be a you a great life for them. Now it's
01:16:52
very much collaborative. I really
01:16:54
understand the journey of trauma trauma.
01:16:56
I really understand the journey of
01:16:57
intergenerational trauma, you know, and
01:16:59
really respect um and accept that that
01:17:02
exists and um we've had over a 100 women
01:17:05
now through the raw model and I work
01:17:07
actively with around 10 women that are
01:17:10
um I guess superstars within that model.
01:17:11
They've achieved some great things. But
01:17:13
these are women that have spent upwards
01:17:14
of 10, you know, 20 years inside. So
01:17:16
they spend a long time inside but those
01:17:19
women have now a lot of them have become
01:17:20
friends you know um and I connect with
01:17:22
them on a regular basis but I support
01:17:24
them too to do all sorts of different
01:17:26
things but ROS's I guess RO's goal now
01:17:29
is to um get corrections to accept that
01:17:33
lived experience has value in the
01:17:35
prisons and if we get that accepted we
01:17:38
then start to look at um how we change
01:17:40
the content of detainment you know what
01:17:42
does it look like when a woman's
01:17:43
detained what you know there's so much
01:17:45
time when a women's um you know in
01:17:48
prison. If we were to use that time
01:17:50
differently, if we were to become the
01:17:52
largest educator of men and women um in
01:17:55
this country um what would that outcome
01:17:57
look like? Because education is the only
01:17:59
thing that will match criminal outcomes.
01:18:01
You know, it's the only thing because
01:18:03
some of those criminal outcomes are
01:18:04
seismic and I can totally understand why
01:18:06
people prefer to go back and be there as
01:18:09
opposed to the minimum wage jobs that
01:18:11
are on offer for them.
01:18:13
So, that's kind of the the nutshell of
01:18:15
RAW.
01:18:16
>> I can tell you're passionate about it. I
01:18:17
think that's that's probably the longest
01:18:18
single answer you've given to to to
01:18:21
anything. And it's um
01:18:23
>> like from a branding perspective, like
01:18:25
it it's not a particularly sexy charity,
01:18:27
is it? Like if it was going to be
01:18:28
something that's going to help the Anna
01:18:29
Streton clothing brand, you'd probably
01:18:31
go with breast cancer or something
01:18:33
something a bit like this is quite it's
01:18:36
quite um controversial, so I can tell
01:18:38
your heart's really in it. Can you
01:18:39
remember the first time you went into a
01:18:40
a prison? Yeah, I can because um I guess
01:18:44
everyone figures that it's kind of a
01:18:45
scary place. Um and it was it actually
01:18:48
reminded me being up at Dio School. Um
01:18:50
you know the this the school I was up
01:18:52
there doing some stuff up there not so
01:18:54
long ago. It's probably not so long ago.
01:18:55
It was probably 5 years ago. But um you
01:18:58
know the especially on the low side
01:19:00
where the women are just there. They're
01:19:02
out. They're connected. A lot of the
01:19:04
women know us. Um and that we've been
01:19:05
around for so long now. There's a lot of
01:19:07
hey Anna, hi. and they'll come over and
01:19:09
um yeah, it's it's an easy space to be
01:19:11
in. I've never felt uncomfortable. I've
01:19:13
never felt threatened. I've never, you
01:19:15
know, um and we're now working. There's
01:19:18
a newly opened unit at Wedia uh Nika
01:19:21
which the women that was a unit that was
01:19:23
closed but given the must blowout at
01:19:25
Oakland women's they've moved around 40
01:19:28
women down now to Wikidia and
01:19:30
corrections are talking to us now around
01:19:32
partnering in respect of actually
01:19:34
setting up that unit in a way that talks
01:19:37
to what we've been talking about you
01:19:38
know the the whole educational focus the
01:19:40
lifestyle focus how can we do it
01:19:42
differently so I guess 12 years and
01:19:44
we're now starting to advance a
01:19:46
conversation that may get a different
01:19:47
outcome. So, we're certainly getting the
01:19:49
chance to run a pilot.
01:19:50
>> The the the women that you work with, do
01:19:52
you ask them uh what they've done, what
01:19:54
they're in for, or is that a sort of
01:19:56
irrelevant?
01:19:57
>> No, it's we just know that. I mean, I
01:19:59
think, you know, it was something that
01:20:00
Matt said when you interviewed him. He
01:20:02
said, you know, and I loved it. It was
01:20:03
one of his final things and I quickly
01:20:05
wrote it down and I um utilized it. But
01:20:08
he said, you know, like if you're
01:20:09
privileged um and you don't choose to
01:20:12
use that privilege to actually benefit
01:20:14
someone that's not as privileged as you
01:20:16
that is is going through a difficult
01:20:18
time or then you're just a croc of [ __ ]
01:20:21
>> And I thought that was such a And then
01:20:22
one of the other things he said um he
01:20:25
said if you're courageous enough to
01:20:27
actually own your journey to actually
01:20:28
talk to your journey, find a safe pair
01:20:31
of hands to actually um do that with.
01:20:33
And I guess RAW is that safe pair of
01:20:36
hands. So I've always said to the women
01:20:37
because the journeys are extensive. You
01:20:39
know they'll be um a lot of our women
01:20:41
are um very senior in the criminal
01:20:44
space. So whether that's you know within
01:20:45
the meth space or um whatever that is a
01:20:48
lot of it's meth meth based crime. Um
01:20:51
>> so for them there's an uncomfortability
01:20:53
about owning it. The the you know they
01:20:55
the I guess the more um I guess the more
01:20:59
they get into our world um they don't
01:21:01
want to own that story. But I believe
01:21:03
it's actually the um it's the thing that
01:21:05
defines them. It's the thing that makes
01:21:07
them better than us um because they've
01:21:09
had to um navigate that whole journey um
01:21:12
prior to doing what they're doing today.
01:21:14
So I loved what Matt said. Um that was
01:21:16
another thing that I took as well like
01:21:18
you know own the journey, be okay about
01:21:20
owning the journey but know that you you
01:21:22
need to be safe when you own it.
01:21:24
>> They they don't want to own it because
01:21:25
of shame.
01:21:26
>> Yeah. I mean like it's it's and and
01:21:28
people not understanding people judging.
01:21:30
um there's so many barriers, you know,
01:21:32
to with they don't ever get clean slate
01:21:35
with their, you know, with the type of
01:21:37
conviction that they have. So, so many
01:21:39
barriers. So, being able to own um that
01:21:42
journey is not so easily, you know, it
01:21:44
doesn't happen easily. It really
01:21:45
doesn't.
01:21:46
>> Yeah. I feel like New Zealand's a hard
01:21:48
country to get redemption.
01:21:49
>> Yeah, very much. Um and in some cases, I
01:21:51
can understand that too, you know. So,
01:21:53
I'm not sitting here as judge and jury,
01:21:55
but I I know these women. Um I've and
01:21:59
most of these women are a result of
01:22:01
those lifestyles through birthright, you
01:22:03
know. So there but for the grace of God
01:22:04
could have been you and I born into
01:22:06
those lives. So they make those choices
01:22:08
because those choices become normalized
01:22:10
and then they become preference. So it's
01:22:12
just easier to go back into those lives
01:22:14
because the barriers are pretty much
01:22:15
insurmountable, you know, and regardless
01:22:17
of how far you come, you still housing
01:22:20
is not an option. No one's going to rent
01:22:22
to someone who spent 14 years cooking
01:22:23
meth, you know, they're just not going
01:22:25
to do that. Doesn't matter how far. So
01:22:27
it's hard and and travel, you know, a
01:22:29
lot of their families in Australia, you
01:22:30
know, it's really hard for them to
01:22:32
actually get in back into Australia or
01:22:34
get into Australia. So it's there are
01:22:36
some countries they can go to. Um
01:22:37
certainly um but you know, some of the
01:22:40
countries they want to go to cuz family
01:22:41
are there, they're they're not able to.
01:22:43
So I understand that. But regardless of
01:22:45
whether they own that journey um and you
01:22:48
think about people like Paul Woods um
01:22:50
you know because he owns his journey um
01:22:53
there until they own that journey it's
01:22:55
going to be hard because they it's
01:22:56
someone else will own it someone else
01:22:57
will come forward and say hey I heard
01:22:59
you're in prison you know um someone
01:23:01
else will and then they'll sort of be on
01:23:02
the back foot. So that's what I loved
01:23:04
about and I've had all the raw women
01:23:06
listen to that podcast.
01:23:08
>> Oh amazing.
01:23:09
>> Yeah. So I've linked it out to them. So
01:23:11
it's
01:23:11
>> awesome. Yeah it's a powerful episode
01:23:12
that one. It's um yeah, Matt's a really
01:23:14
good dude.
01:23:14
>> Yeah.
01:23:15
>> Such a good man.
01:23:16
>> Great speaker. A great speaker.
01:23:18
>> What's What's the biggest myth about
01:23:19
female prisoners that pisses you off?
01:23:21
>> Um I [clears throat] don't know. I think
01:23:23
the um I I guess rather than a myth,
01:23:27
what I struggle with is that kind of
01:23:29
that savior approach that we tend to
01:23:32
take towards it around that tokenistic.
01:23:34
Um, so many people say to me, "Oh, you
01:23:36
know, they must be so wrapped with, you
01:23:39
know, how you've had done what you've
01:23:40
done or how you've helped or how you've
01:23:42
saved them." You know, I hate that word
01:23:43
saved, you know, how you've saved them.
01:23:45
And I go, "I didn't save them. You know,
01:23:48
I chose to walk a journey alongside them
01:23:51
um until they believed in themselves."
01:23:53
So, I believed, but until they believed
01:23:54
in themselves and were able to
01:23:56
self-determine. And then I'm there when
01:23:58
things get a little tough and I help
01:24:00
that. But I think the biggest myth is
01:24:02
that there our way is the right way that
01:24:05
you know that we should all be doing the
01:24:07
kind of the western um you know approach
01:24:10
to to life that you know the crimefree
01:24:12
approach that um and there's there's
01:24:15
lots that I struggle with in the way
01:24:16
that we live.
01:24:17
>> Yeah.
01:24:18
>> Um some people say once a criminal
01:24:20
always a criminal. How how do you
01:24:22
respond to that?
01:24:23
>> It's so not true. I mean you know
01:24:25
criminality comes through poverty. It
01:24:27
comes through life circumstances. Comes
01:24:28
through birthright. It comes through
01:24:30
need, you know, not um not, you know,
01:24:33
I've never met anyone that's actually um
01:24:36
been like you or I and turned criminal
01:24:38
for the criminal for the you know, live
01:24:40
lives or assuming I don't know what your
01:24:42
life's been like, but my life and then
01:24:44
turn criminal based on the material
01:24:45
gains. I never have. You know, there's
01:24:47
circumstances that are there that are
01:24:50
normalized, um, that are
01:24:51
intergenerational, that are just a way
01:24:53
of life, you know, and I understand that
01:24:56
way of life and I really, you know, it's
01:24:58
um, and there's some really tough
01:25:00
elements about it. It's pretty it's
01:25:01
quite a courageous kind of space to
01:25:03
survive in.
01:25:05
>> Um, how with your raw hat on, how do you
01:25:08
how do you feel when you see um when you
01:25:10
see failure, you know, like a woman
01:25:12
slipping back into old patterns?
01:25:14
>> Uh, I see it all the time. Yeah.
01:25:16
>> Um [laughter] I'm working with one at
01:25:18
the moment that is she's been with us 7
01:25:20
years and she's chosen to go back. Um
01:25:24
>> and you know it was interesting talking
01:25:26
to her about what what she liked about
01:25:28
it. You know like she said it's just so
01:25:30
addictive. You know I just I love the
01:25:31
highs. I love the adrenaline rush. I
01:25:34
love you know everything about it. You
01:25:35
know and and I think for me I don't know
01:25:39
if it's heartbreaking but but I know
01:25:41
it's part of the journey. It's no
01:25:42
different to the fashion business. There
01:25:43
were highs and there were lows and the
01:25:45
learnings come from the lows and when
01:25:47
when we don't succeed with a woman we
01:25:49
know that we eventually will. So in some
01:25:51
cases we might see a woman three or four
01:25:53
times before we actually get change. And
01:25:55
I remember when we started my sister who
01:25:57
works with me said to me um she's had 25
01:26:00
years of mental health. So, we kind of
01:26:01
got the, you know, I'm the business
01:26:02
side, she's the therapeutic side. But
01:26:05
she said to me, "Hey, sis, it might take
01:26:07
a while for us to actually um create a
01:26:09
real opportunity that um they find
01:26:11
purpose in that they value." And I said,
01:26:13
"Oh, no. We'll be all good, sis. We'll
01:26:14
we'll wrap this up." And yeah,
01:26:16
[laughter]
01:26:17
but you know, she was right. She was
01:26:18
right. She was right. It It's a big
01:26:20
journey. And um as so many doors are
01:26:23
closed in our world, so many. So, after
01:26:25
a while, it gets in the [ __ ] bucket,
01:26:27
you know. They just go Yeah, it's just
01:26:29
too bloody hard, you know? I mean, I
01:26:32
guess if I suggested that you went and
01:26:34
did 6 months at the Mongol mobs
01:26:36
headquarters and just kind of, you know,
01:26:38
make yourself a bit inconspicuous and
01:26:39
kind of try and live that life. I don't
01:26:41
know if it would hold appeal for you.
01:26:44
[snorts]
01:26:46
>> Someone that's never been to prison or
01:26:48
never been in any trouble, why why
01:26:49
should they care about RAW?
01:26:51
>> Oh, in respect of of me.
01:26:53
>> Yeah.
01:26:54
>> Yeah. They shouldn't. And that's the
01:26:55
great thing about lived experience
01:26:57
because the lived experience in now
01:26:58
joining our governance board, the lived
01:27:00
experience in now working for the model,
01:27:01
the lived experience of working with us
01:27:02
in Wedia. So we acknowledge that it was
01:27:05
just a kind of a time lapse before we
01:27:07
actually put in those people that they
01:27:09
do care about that they do aspire to be.
01:27:11
And within that lived experience, we
01:27:13
need to have the whole gamut. So success
01:27:15
can just be um getting your
01:27:17
grandchildren back off the gang or
01:27:19
getting them back off a a child that's
01:27:21
potentially actually gone or is patched
01:27:23
and sort of so you take them back into
01:27:26
your care and you get custody of them.
01:27:28
Um through to um extreme academic
01:27:30
success or purchasing a business or
01:27:32
doing you know buying a home or so
01:27:34
success is really varied. So it's um
01:27:37
yeah that's very much in that space.
01:27:38
>> Is is a lot of these women quite
01:27:40
charismatic and charming?
01:27:43
I love who these women are. And you
01:27:45
know, they're really different. Really
01:27:47
different. And they they really
01:27:48
understand me now. They navigate and
01:27:50
trust me. Trust is, you know, one of the
01:27:52
other things my sister says, you know,
01:27:53
it's not fair to trust them, sis. It's
01:27:55
not fair because they can't give you the
01:27:57
trust because their life is such that
01:27:59
they will and and she's so right. It was
01:28:01
such a, you know, it always sits there
01:28:03
with me. But I feel I've got to a space
01:28:05
now where I can trust probably around
01:28:08
half a dozen of them, you know, um, in
01:28:10
the time that I've been working there. I
01:28:11
do trust them. I do trust.
01:28:13
>> What's one lesson from these women that
01:28:15
everyone that's listening or watching
01:28:16
this podcast could apply to their own
01:28:18
lives today? [snorts]
01:28:19
>> I guess for for me um the ability change
01:28:23
is hard. You know, making change at that
01:28:25
level is pretty much impossible. And I
01:28:27
look at um you know um the world when it
01:28:30
tries to diet. You know, we're all
01:28:31
pretty hopeless at that achieve much.
01:28:35
um for these women to actually travel
01:28:36
these journeys and make these changes
01:28:38
and and do them in such a genuine way um
01:28:42
I think there needs to be a a much
01:28:44
higher level of understanding not so
01:28:46
much respect but understanding of how
01:28:48
courageous those journeys are and so for
01:28:50
me really um getting our head around
01:28:53
because I think we get so charged by the
01:28:56
criminality of it you know when the
01:28:58
offenses are committed and when people
01:28:59
do things but really understanding the
01:29:01
journeys that sit behind and why people
01:29:03
do these And some of the crimes are
01:29:05
horrible. They really are. But um if you
01:29:08
start to understand um the birthight
01:29:11
that sits in behind there, you start to
01:29:13
have a very different perspective. So
01:29:14
it's that understanding um of those
01:29:17
lives that I think becomes particularly
01:29:18
important.
01:29:20
>> What would 25 30-year-old Anna think of
01:29:22
this version of Anna? I I feel like um
01:29:24
she she for all I know about you is this
01:29:26
chat we've had today, but I feel like
01:29:28
you would have been le
01:29:30
cut and dry back then.
01:29:31
>> Yeah. much more around compassionate.
01:29:34
Yeah, very much, you know, and very much
01:29:35
in my own headsp space. Um, never got
01:29:38
out of my own way. You know, it was
01:29:39
always my way or the highway. Um, you
01:29:42
know, I never really thought that other
01:29:43
people's opinions mattered. You know, I
01:29:45
was very much into my own um very much
01:29:48
about myself, you know, very
01:29:49
self-centered. Um, and if something kind
01:29:53
of difficult happened in a relationship
01:29:55
space, you know, it would usually sever
01:29:56
the relationships, you know. So, I never
01:29:57
really understood or never took the
01:29:59
time. So, yeah. and and the raw women
01:30:01
have taught me so much. They've taught
01:30:02
me how to lead well. They've taught me
01:30:04
how to lead with compassion. They've
01:30:05
taught me how to lead with
01:30:06
understanding. Um they've taught me how
01:30:08
to just stop and take some time and not
01:30:10
react. You know, I was very reactionary.
01:30:12
I don't react now. You know, I won't
01:30:14
make a decision of um any size or any
01:30:18
substance um until the next day. So, if
01:30:20
something happens and it goes down, I
01:30:21
just pause and breathe and stop um and
01:30:24
do not react to that. But a 25year-old
01:30:27
Anna is hugely reactionary right in the
01:30:29
moment. Man, the Yeah,
01:30:31
>> I feel like I'm on the same journey at
01:30:33
this stage of my life. It's like the
01:30:34
older the older the the older I get, the
01:30:36
more I know, the realize the less I
01:30:38
actually know
01:30:38
>> and the more there is to learn. Oh, it's
01:30:41
I've just come back from Cambodia and
01:30:43
Vietnam and just learning about Polepot
01:30:46
and the Camir Rouge and the you know I
01:30:49
was um sitting school C in 1975 when
01:30:51
that country was um you know in the
01:30:54
space of absolute genocide where they
01:30:56
lost 2 million people and the educated
01:30:58
classes and just you know um being made
01:31:02
aware um and just being immersed in that
01:31:05
space. I thought there's so much I don't
01:31:07
know. There's just so much I don't know
01:31:09
and really hungry to know. Yeah.
01:31:12
>> Yeah. When you look back on your life so
01:31:14
far, uh what do you think your younger
01:31:15
self would be the most surprised that
01:31:17
you've achieved? [snorts]
01:31:19
>> This the raw work, the social impact
01:31:21
work. Yeah. I don't think I was ever in
01:31:23
a space as a younger person to be
01:31:25
anything but successful in business. You
01:31:27
know, that was kind of the goal was to
01:31:28
build a successful fashion company. Um
01:31:31
you know, acquire money that enabled me
01:31:33
to to never want for anything. Um, you
01:31:36
know, I remember at one stage I was
01:31:37
driving two Mercedes cars, you know, one
01:31:39
convertible, one sort of more four-wheel
01:31:41
drive, more um, work focused car. And I
01:31:44
look back and I think, how stupid, you
01:31:46
know, I I don't even need two cars. I
01:31:48
couldn't drive two cars. I didn't need a
01:31:50
convertible. I barely drove it. Just
01:31:52
making stupid decisions that were just
01:31:54
pointless. And so, yeah, I just I the
01:31:57
the change has been so nice. It's I, you
01:32:00
know, I I can live with myself so much
01:32:02
better now. M
01:32:04
>> has your definition of success changed
01:32:06
over the years?
01:32:06
>> Oh yeah, absolutely. Um [snorts] well, I
01:32:09
think it was always financial. Success
01:32:10
was always about how much money you made
01:32:12
and and you know how how you set
01:32:14
yourself up to actually not want for
01:32:16
anything. But now it's totally in um
01:32:19
people, you know, it's in how I make
01:32:20
people feel, you know, it's in um it's
01:32:23
in the raw woman, you know, how I'm able
01:32:25
to actually navigate some of this
01:32:27
journey for them, how I'm able to
01:32:28
connect for them, how I'm able to just
01:32:30
have, you know, one of I was talking to
01:32:32
one of the it was good that I had a lot
01:32:33
of time in the trip up actually. I had a
01:32:35
lot of phone calls and one of the girls
01:32:36
that I was talking to was looking at a
01:32:38
job and she said, "What do you think?"
01:32:39
And I said, "Well, this is what I
01:32:40
think." you know, and I was able to just
01:32:43
give her some really sage advice and I
01:32:45
said, "It'd be great for you to apply
01:32:46
for this and see where the barriers are,
01:32:48
but I don't think this is a job you, you
01:32:50
know, that will really fulfill you
01:32:52
around." Um, so just being able to have
01:32:54
those conversations and those that's
01:32:56
success. That's success. Yeah,
01:32:59
>> it's easy to say when I've financially
01:33:01
set myself up in a way that you know
01:33:03
that works. Um, but yeah, it's um
01:33:07
>> Oh, that's understandable though. But
01:33:08
you want to feather your nest first and
01:33:09
then you can start looking at more
01:33:11
altruistic
01:33:11
>> and I think a lot of people do a lot of
01:33:13
people do you know you look at Steven
01:33:14
Tindle and you look at some of those
01:33:16
people that have have created hugely
01:33:19
successful businesses and you know
01:33:21
they're incredibly gen generous in the
01:33:22
philanthropic space.
01:33:24
>> Yeah. Well ludicrous wealth I think can
01:33:26
turn you into complete dick or you can
01:33:28
go the other way right.
01:33:29
>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And
01:33:31
and you know and it's I just the
01:33:33
material gains are so inconsequential to
01:33:36
me. I just I don't measure myself. I
01:33:38
don't want them. I don't want them, you
01:33:40
know. Um but I do want um you know the
01:33:43
the the raw work to really succeed. I do
01:33:46
want um I do want us to think
01:33:48
differently around what you know the
01:33:50
prison system and and interesting like
01:33:51
we've got an opportunity to speak at a
01:33:54
educative prison conference in northern
01:33:56
Macedonia in November.
01:33:58
>> So I've convinced them cuz they offered
01:33:59
me a pleinary um and that's a keynote
01:34:02
type thing. I don't even know what that
01:34:03
was until they So, there's another thing
01:34:05
I didn't know, but they um I've
01:34:07
convinced them to let me do it
01:34:08
digitally. Um I'm going to do it with
01:34:09
one of the raw women and that's hugely
01:34:11
exciting for them because I haven't been
01:34:13
able to get lived experience into the
01:34:15
conference based around travel
01:34:17
restrictions and so I think you know
01:34:20
they've accepted the digital platform
01:34:21
which is great but it'll be exciting to
01:34:23
actually globally start to talk about
01:34:25
this work with one of the lift
01:34:27
experience um you know in respect of
01:34:29
what we're trying to achieve. M
01:34:31
>> do you do you have much time off?
01:34:34
>> No. Um
01:34:34
>> do you like do you but do do you have an
01:34:38
intentional day or two per week where
01:34:39
you don't do anything or
01:34:40
>> No. What is it? I [laughter] mean I find
01:34:43
that um it's hard for me to do not do
01:34:46
anything. Do you hate holidays?
01:34:48
>> I do. I mean like I as I said I've just
01:34:51
been away but I pretty much work sort of
01:34:53
3 to four or five hours a day. Um I just
01:34:55
get up early and [snorts] work. And my
01:34:57
my husband's really good at kind of
01:34:58
knowing who I am and what that looks
01:35:00
like. But I spend the day with him and
01:35:02
then, you know, do a bit more. But the
01:35:04
Yeah, for me I I'm wired in my work and
01:35:08
and I don't see work in the sense that
01:35:09
other people see work. I I see it as my
01:35:12
passion, as my hobby, as the stuff I
01:35:14
love to do. I'm wired in. I mean,
01:35:16
>> me without something to do is is a is a
01:35:19
difficult person.
01:35:22
>> Yeah.
01:35:22
>> I was listening to a podcast last week.
01:35:23
There's this Australian guy called Peter
01:35:25
Freriedman who actually owns a company
01:35:26
called Road, which makes these these
01:35:28
microphones. Um, we've got the road
01:35:29
microphones cuz we knew they were kind
01:35:31
of cool. So,
01:35:32
>> he's he's in his um he's in his 60s now,
01:35:34
maybe even 70s and he's worth he's worth
01:35:35
billions. But in this podcast, he was
01:35:37
like, I hate holidays, hate vacations.
01:35:39
Yeah. He goes, I go home and I just do
01:35:41
more work on research and development
01:35:42
and then I go to bed and you I wake up
01:35:45
in the next morning and I start again.
01:35:46
And it's just if you're in that space,
01:35:49
like it's not I know it's not for
01:35:50
everyone. Um, but but if you're in that
01:35:52
place and it's bringing you joy, then
01:35:54
it's a good space to be playing in. I
01:35:55
think joy is a really good word, you
01:35:57
know, and as soon as it stops bringing
01:35:58
me joy, um I would certainly look to to
01:36:01
what did and I mean I've got four
01:36:02
grandchildren now and they and I'm a
01:36:04
really active um they call me Nana
01:36:07
because everyone used to call me Anna
01:36:09
because of that Hame and so when they
01:36:11
arrived I thought well you know what I'm
01:36:12
just whacking in on that and then
01:36:13
everyone can actually mispronounce the
01:36:16
name. So but they bring me a lot of joy
01:36:19
and that really proactive grandparenting
01:36:21
has been awesome and something I was not
01:36:23
good at with my own kids. you know, they
01:36:24
just slotted into my life, whereas now I
01:36:27
revolve my life around these kids, but
01:36:29
so yeah, I guess that that could be a,
01:36:31
you know, but that's pretty active. I
01:36:33
think that's harder than working. Yeah,
01:36:34
[laughter]
01:36:35
they are so full on. I mean, they go
01:36:37
from one to five and so that's, you
01:36:39
know, they're young.
01:36:40
>> As as they get older, how do you hope
01:36:42
they see you as a woman?
01:36:44
>> Um, yeah, I hope the social work, the
01:36:46
social impact work is important to them.
01:36:48
It was interesting. Someone said to me
01:36:49
the other day, will Sam and Ebid, who
01:36:51
are my children, carry on the social
01:36:53
impact work? And I said, "No, they won't
01:36:54
because they're not passionate about it.
01:36:56
You know, they're not aligned with it."
01:36:57
Um, but who will carry it on is the raw
01:37:00
woman. The raw woman will pick it up and
01:37:01
they will carry it on. And that was
01:37:02
always the intention with RAW. But, um,
01:37:05
you know, for me, I just I just it's a
01:37:07
value set I want to instill in the the
01:37:09
grandchildren. It's a value set that's
01:37:11
really important.
01:37:13
>> Um, Jess, you're tough. E, [laughter]
01:37:16
>> tough as in as in
01:37:19
>> um I I can I can I can tell. Yeah. So
01:37:21
just resilient or so resil resilient.
01:37:24
Okay. Maybe resil tough sounds like a
01:37:26
mean word. I I don't mean it in a in a
01:37:28
tough way.
01:37:29
>> Sounds like fashion week. Mean
01:37:31
>> um no like like uncompromising and um
01:37:34
just unapologetically you.
01:37:38
>> Were you born with resilience or is is
01:37:40
that just like an ax that you've
01:37:41
sharpened over the years?
01:37:42
>> No, it's it's it's I that's evolved over
01:37:44
the years is I've had to No, I wasn't
01:37:46
born with resilience. you know, I was
01:37:48
like everyone, I guess, you know,
01:37:50
difficult moments would just um knock
01:37:52
this the wind out of my sales. And once
01:37:53
again, interesting listening to Justinda
01:37:55
saying you can get 97 great comments on
01:37:56
the a social media feed and you get two
01:37:59
shitty ones, and it's the shitty ones
01:38:00
you fixate on, not not the great ones.
01:38:02
>> That's how the brain's wired.
01:38:03
>> Yeah. I mean, it [clears throat] is
01:38:04
wired like that, but you've got to be
01:38:06
able to move it from that. You've got to
01:38:07
be able to put the perspective in. But
01:38:08
no, excuse [clears throat] me. That
01:38:10
resilience is built up.
01:38:12
>> Absolutely built up. And um I've never,
01:38:15
you know, I didn't start that way. Um,
01:38:16
it's just the way I've taught myself to
01:38:18
manage the difficult stuff, you know,
01:38:20
and to to know what matters and what's
01:38:22
important versus what's not. And you've
01:38:24
just got to wade through it.
01:38:26
>> Do you have any regrets?
01:38:29
>> I don't really. I mean, as I said, even
01:38:31
the stupid moments are not really
01:38:33
regrets. They're all part of the
01:38:34
learning and the rich history of life.
01:38:37
>> Maybe calling the brand Anniston, but
01:38:39
then um [laughter]
01:38:40
it's worked out all right. But it has
01:38:42
because you know the to get an audience
01:38:43
with the CEO of corrections in our first
01:38:46
you know year or 6 months of working
01:38:48
because we couldn't activate entry into
01:38:50
the prison. Yeah. We just kept getting
01:38:51
sort of thwarted. And so I knocked on
01:38:53
the door of Ray Smith
01:38:55
>> and said hey I you know I want to and
01:38:57
you know um it was interesting that
01:38:59
first meeting where three of his
01:39:00
deputies turned up. They were women. Um
01:39:02
and their biggest dilemma was what to
01:39:04
wear that morning. Well, [ __ ] I was in
01:39:05
jeans and a puffer and um you know,
01:39:07
ready to go. But
01:39:08
>> oh, they wanted to be like
01:39:11
[laughter] designer, you know, what do
01:39:13
we wear with the Well, you know, I'm not
01:39:16
I kind of the fashion thing doesn't
01:39:18
matter as much to me. I don't have to
01:39:19
have the right shoes or the right, you
01:39:21
know, the I just it doesn't matter. It's
01:39:24
been a means to an end, but I love
01:39:26
fashion. I love what I do. I love the
01:39:28
the ladies that love the brand, you
01:39:30
know, there's no doubt about that. But
01:39:31
it it's not an obsession. It's not an
01:39:34
obsession for me. And 30% of what we do
01:39:36
now is homeware and kind of accessories
01:39:38
and bits and pieces and I'm loving that
01:39:40
as well. So yeah, that's the creative
01:39:42
thing. I love, you know, the
01:39:43
photography, the art, you know, that
01:39:45
that's the stuff that's kind of flowing
01:39:47
through my product.
01:39:48
>> Yeah, you you've put a bunch of books
01:39:49
out and they're all beautiful, really
01:39:51
attractive books.
01:39:52
>> It's um Yeah, we have. I mean, just
01:39:54
trying to capture the story. I'm writing
01:39:56
one at the moment. Um, that's the sort
01:39:57
of well not the final bit, but I
01:39:59
realized that I hadn't written since
01:40:01
2010. So, I just kind of wanted to and
01:40:03
more so because I wanted my
01:40:05
grandchildren to actually know my story
01:40:07
from me. I didn't I could just see my
01:40:09
son sitting there and saying, "Oh, yeah,
01:40:10
grandmother. She did a bit in the prison
01:40:12
and you know, she was kind of, you know,
01:40:14
she had a few shops and, you know, I
01:40:16
mean, that's who she was." And I just
01:40:17
thought it would be really nice to have
01:40:19
something that if they choose to that,
01:40:22
um, draws a line in the sand and says,
01:40:23
"This is who I am. This is how I think.
01:40:25
Um, this is the stuff I care about.
01:40:28
>> What would you say your biggest flaws
01:40:29
are?
01:40:31
>> Um,
01:40:33
I don't know. I think I think I fixate
01:40:35
too much on my weight. I still Yeah, I
01:40:38
think I still as a woman struggle. Um, I
01:40:41
still battle that. I still battle that.
01:40:43
I'd like
01:40:43
>> a body image thing.
01:40:44
>> Not a body image, but you know, I just
01:40:46
I'm always kind of wanting to be 2 or 3
01:40:48
kgs lighter. You know, that's that's a
01:40:50
kind of a fixation of mine. Um, that
01:40:52
doesn't need to be there now cuz it
01:40:53
doesn't matter. just buy the next size
01:40:55
up, you know, it just doesn't matter. Um
01:40:58
>> the I mean physical appearance is kind
01:41:01
of important for this industry, but
01:41:03
wellness is is super important. But
01:41:05
yeah, um I don't know. I think a lot of
01:41:08
the flaws I've kind of navigated it, you
01:41:10
know, um and that um I I I strongly back
01:41:14
myself, you know, I'm I know that if I
01:41:17
call it wrong, I'm really happy to
01:41:18
apologize. I have no problem. Um I was
01:41:21
talking to someone on the weekend where
01:41:22
I had openly made a mistake, you know,
01:41:24
where I listened to their perspective.
01:41:25
Um I could see that I've made them feel
01:41:27
uncomfortable and I said, "Look, I
01:41:28
really apologize for that." You know,
01:41:30
and in a lot of cases that's what people
01:41:31
need to hear, you know, they just want
01:41:32
that. Um
01:41:33
>> so yeah, I think for me,
01:41:37
yeah, I'm Yeah, I don't know. I'm I'm
01:41:40
maybe I could be less busy sometimes. I
01:41:42
could be I could actually give my
01:41:44
husband more attention. I think he kind
01:41:46
of suffers from that. No,
01:41:47
>> it's a second husband. second husband
01:41:49
about 27 years,
01:41:50
>> right?
01:41:51
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I think I'll stay there
01:41:53
for the
01:41:54
>> is a similar age.
01:41:55
>> Uh he's 62.
01:41:57
>> 62. Oh, yeah. Similar age. So, is he
01:41:59
still working? Is he
01:42:00
>> Well, he doesn't want to. He doesn't
01:42:01
want to, but he's helping. He does stuff
01:42:03
at work. He's a keen golfer. Um BMW mad,
01:42:07
car mad. Um yeah, he he Yeah, there's a
01:42:10
lot of stuff that needs to happen at
01:42:11
work, especially with the setup of the
01:42:12
gallery and the But he's a reluctant
01:42:15
participant in the work environment at
01:42:17
the moment. Yeah, I think he he you know
01:42:19
he can kind of but I'm trying to
01:42:22
[clears throat] convince him to build a
01:42:22
house as our last house instead of going
01:42:24
into kind of that residential space.
01:42:26
Build something really freaking cool,
01:42:28
you know, like with it cuz that's my
01:42:29
kind of dream. The last house I'll build
01:42:31
and it'll be I don't know if you watch
01:42:32
Phil Spencer's um New Zealand homes on
01:42:35
Sunday night.
01:42:35
>> Oh my god, I love it.
01:42:36
>> The house from Hahi
01:42:38
home in Hahi and I thought, "Oh my gosh,
01:42:41
first I'm going to find out who's got
01:42:42
that home um and see if I can have a
01:42:44
look at it." But I thought that was the
01:42:46
thing that kind of um
01:42:47
>> See, was that the one that had the wine
01:42:48
celler downstairs?
01:42:49
>> Did it? Yeah, it did. But it had that um
01:42:51
that huge deck and that fireplace that
01:42:53
dropped down. Although he went to
01:42:54
Queenstown and saw the same fireplace.
01:42:56
So might have been doing a bit of a deal
01:42:57
on.
01:42:59
But um yeah, it's to build and and I
01:43:03
think he would love to kind of just
01:43:04
project manage that. That would, you
01:43:06
know, cuz that'll take a couple of
01:43:07
years. And yeah, he is a bit of a he's
01:43:09
not he well, he doesn't need to. I'm I'm
01:43:11
the insane kind of workaholic for one of
01:43:14
a better title. But um as Annette
01:43:16
Presley said, it doesn't matter if
01:43:17
you're a workaholic as long as you love
01:43:18
what you do.
01:43:19
>> 100%. Yeah.
01:43:20
>> And future goals just more more of more
01:43:23
of the same. More of what you do.
01:43:24
>> More travel. More travel. Um more
01:43:26
intrepid travel. Um love to go to South
01:43:28
America. Um love to do more of the Asian
01:43:30
countries like doing Cambodia. I'd love
01:43:32
to actually kind of extend that um and
01:43:35
really learn um as I do that. So not I'm
01:43:37
so ve well versed in the states and
01:43:40
Europe and you know so to kind of keep
01:43:42
out of those areas and just be a bit
01:43:43
more intrepid. Probably not Russia or um
01:43:45
Israel at the moment.
01:43:46
>> Not too intrigued.
01:43:47
>> Yeah. With the um but yeah um very much
01:43:51
um really build the photography. I
01:43:54
really love that. Um that creative
01:43:56
element of that and what I'm doing there
01:43:58
and also yeah some smaller business
01:44:00
ideas. So working on one at the moment a
01:44:02
little digital one. Um but you know it's
01:44:05
still still smaller business ideas that
01:44:07
I can do without my name that are
01:44:09
salailable scalable you know um type
01:44:12
type operations
01:44:15
>> when um it's eventually your funeral. Um
01:44:18
how would you like um your
01:44:19
>> I've got that plan too. I didn't want to
01:44:21
leave that open for everyone else to
01:44:23
decide what to do. [laughter]
01:44:25
>> Is that right? Is it in the will?
01:44:27
[clears throat]
01:44:27
>> Yeah. It's totally the song they play
01:44:30
who does what? What the flowers look
01:44:32
like? I thought I do not want to leave
01:44:34
that open to to a discussion that they
01:44:36
have that Yeah.
01:44:38
>> Are you a control freak?
01:44:39
>> Not [clears throat] a control freak, but
01:44:40
I want things done my way. So, yeah, I'm
01:44:44
I'm immediate, you know. So, I was um I
01:44:46
was just kind of crafting it the other
01:44:48
day of just write being writing up the
01:44:49
memorandum because I wanted to put
01:44:51
within there some very specifics and I
01:44:52
got to the end and I thought, right, I'm
01:44:54
now I'm going to plan the funeral for
01:44:56
them.
01:44:57
>> Um you we established before the podcast
01:44:59
started that you're not um an overly
01:45:01
emotional person. Um, the last time you
01:45:03
cried was watching the movie Tina on a
01:45:05
plane. Um, but yeah, what's your funeral
01:45:07
going to look like? Is do you want
01:45:08
people to be crying? Is it um No.
01:45:11
>> No, I don't want people to be crying. I
01:45:13
want people to really see what was
01:45:14
important to me. I want people to
01:45:15
celebrate a life that I celebrate each
01:45:18
and every day. You know, I love the fact
01:45:19
that I've been able to make such a
01:45:21
strong contribution even if it all
01:45:22
stopped tomorrow. Um, even if I wipe
01:45:24
myself out going down the motorway this
01:45:26
afternoon or this, you know, at
01:45:27
lunchtime today. Um, I want people to be
01:45:30
able to celebrate in the same way that I
01:45:32
do. Um, you know, the achievements that
01:45:34
I've been able to, um, you know, get
01:45:37
past the post, um, in respect of that
01:45:39
correctional work. You know, it's been
01:45:40
really important. And the refuge work,
01:45:42
you know, I I really And and you know
01:45:44
what? I'd really love a Mai funeral.
01:45:46
>> I'd really love um, to be immersed in
01:45:49
Mai when I go.
01:45:53
>> Yeah. You've got a big ponamu.
01:45:55
>> The girls, the raw girls gave it to me.
01:45:56
Yeah. Right. they put together inside
01:45:58
and outside. Um what little money they
01:46:01
have and brought it.
01:46:03
>> [ __ ] That's special, isn't it?
01:46:05
>> This is Yes. And a lot of people comment
01:46:07
on this piece. But I I always wear it
01:46:09
when I fly. I you know I wear it um just
01:46:12
wear it in special moments.
01:46:14
>> Did you Did you cry when you were gifted
01:46:16
that? No, cuz [laughter]
01:46:18
Well, I don't know. Well, I guess it's
01:46:22
because my sister said to me,
01:46:23
>> I'm just I'm just getting emotional
01:46:25
hearing about the girls.
01:46:27
>> This is what they want to get you. Um I
01:46:30
think it might be my 60th, might have
01:46:31
been May. And she says, "Just do you
01:46:34
want to choose the design? Cuz I just
01:46:36
hate to pull this wrong." [laughter] So,
01:46:40
and so I chose the design and they, you
01:46:44
know, they brought it. Um they blessed
01:46:46
it and they gave it. Yeah. So um you
01:46:49
know my sister knows me better than
01:46:50
anyone and she just said it would be
01:46:52
good to have something you really love.
01:46:54
>> Yeah. So um yeah.
01:46:57
>> Oh that's wonderful. Oh what's the song?
01:46:59
What's the song that you got selected
01:47:00
for the funeral?
01:47:01
>> Oh um Pentanics. Hallelujah.
01:47:04
>> Oh that's designed to get people crying.
01:47:07
>> I love that song. There won't be a dry
01:47:09
eye in the house.
01:47:09
>> It's not even um a funeral song really
01:47:12
is it? It's just whenever that song
01:47:14
comes on it just
01:47:15
>> it just something about and you know
01:47:17
what's really spooky about it is it's my
01:47:19
mother's favorite song and found it out
01:47:21
the other day but she likes the original
01:47:23
singer mine's the pentanics which is
01:47:25
kind of the souped up version but um I'm
01:47:28
sure the guy that sang it came to New
01:47:30
Zealand and she was um but yeah that was
01:47:32
pretty spooky to find that she loves
01:47:34
that song.
01:47:35
>> Yeah. [gasps]
01:47:36
>> So at your funeral your your children no
01:47:39
last one on this going somewhere. Um, so
01:47:43
your your children and your
01:47:44
grandchildren, what three words would
01:47:45
you like them to use to describe you?
01:47:50
>> Ah,
01:47:53
I don't know. Are you Are you talking
01:47:54
about isolated words or group of words
01:47:56
or, you know, I' I'd like them to feel
01:48:00
um I'd like them to know that, you know,
01:48:04
how much I love them. I'd like them to
01:48:06
feel I'd like them to to know how
01:48:08
significant and how important their
01:48:11
lives were to me. You know that you know
01:48:13
how much I'd wanted to enrich. Um I'd
01:48:15
like them to just as I have even though
01:48:18
my father wasn't a great dad as I said
01:48:20
to you, but he was certainly there was
01:48:22
moments that I hang on to. I'd like them
01:48:25
my moments that they remember me by,
01:48:27
which will all be individual to to
01:48:29
actually be, you know, um, significant
01:48:32
and able them to to guide them, to be
01:48:34
able to guide them. But yeah, um,
01:48:36
>> yeah, I think for me, just someone that
01:48:39
they loved, you know, that was really
01:48:41
important to them, that really added
01:48:43
value to their lives, you know, and I
01:48:44
don't say that in a, you know, in a way
01:48:46
that's sort of self- serving. I I
01:48:48
believe that I do, you know, they're my
01:48:50
absolute focus, my two children and my
01:48:52
four grandchildren. Absolute. And then
01:48:54
the my husband will put him [laughter]
01:48:57
he kind of knows where he's
01:48:59
>> Yeah. He knows his place in the peing
01:49:00
order. He's good with that. [laughter]
01:49:02
>> Are you Are you proud of yourself?
01:49:03
>> Yes, I am. I am proud of myself. I'm
01:49:06
really proud of who I've become today.
01:49:08
And I really thank the raw women for
01:49:10
that. You know, I would not have been
01:49:11
able to do this without them. They have
01:49:13
they've taught me humility, which was
01:49:15
never part of my vocab or my languaging.
01:49:18
>> Amazing. What a journey. M
01:49:20
>> Anna Streton, thanks so much for coming
01:49:22
on the podcast.
01:49:23
>> Thank you for the opportunity. Yeah.
01:49:25
>> Yeah. Is it enjoyable reflecting on this
01:49:27
stuff?
01:49:28
>> It it is and especially with someone
01:49:30
like yourself um and that it's you have
01:49:33
so little knowledge, you know, like in
01:49:34
that you've gathered some bits and
01:49:35
pieces which is great. Um but you know
01:49:38
when I'm it's it's just nice to be able
01:49:40
to share um those moments and nice for
01:49:42
you to gear them in the way that you
01:49:44
believe is kind of important. So yeah,
01:49:46
your perspective. Well, I appreciate you
01:49:48
making the trip up and coming on the
01:49:49
podcast.
01:49:49
>> It's okay. It reminds me of why I don't
01:49:52
want to drive to [laughter] Yeah.
01:49:55
>> Well, I really appreciate it and um best
01:49:57
of luck for whatever the future holds.
01:49:59
>> Yeah. Thank you. I'm sure our paths will
01:50:00
cross again.
01:50:01
>> I hope so.
01:50:03
>> Thanks, Tom.
