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Oh, good. You're here. Come on. This is
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the center of performance. Whenever
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there's a top performance in New
00:00:06
Zealand, it all comes from here. That's
00:00:08
Lisa Carrington. She's been doing that
00:00:10
for days. That's the boys who got the
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hole in one in to
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Finn. How's the performance going?
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>> Top tier.
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>> Nice. This is our generate room. In
00:00:21
here, you'll find our top performers
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helping Kiwis maximize their Kiwi Saver
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[music] investments. Get in here, Finn.
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>> Maximize. Generate. putting performance
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first.
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>> Emma Gilmore, welcome to my podcast.
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>> Very excited to be here.
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>> Are you nervous?
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>> Yes.
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>> Good. Good. Because this time this time
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yesterday, uh, I was a passenger in your
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rally car and I was [ __ ] myself.
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Could [laughter] you tell?
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>> Yeah, I could tell. I had never met you
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before, so I didn't know if this was
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like you normally or if it was nerves,
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but yeah, it's kind of cool to be able
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to return the favor and uh yeah, put you
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out of your comfort zone as I'm doing
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now.
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>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. It's
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really good to connect. Um for anyone
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that is not familiar with you, who is
00:01:07
Emma Gilmore?
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>> Uh I am a rally driver here in New
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Zealand. Uh I've been rallying gosh for
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over 20 odd years now. So, um, and being
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able to rally overseas and do lots of
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different things, but then I'm also a
00:01:18
business owner, own a car dealership,
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uh, Gilmore Motor Suzuki in Deneden.
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And, yeah, proud, uh, proud, uh, born
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and bred Dened.
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>> And a a badass behind the wheel, like an
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absolute savage, right? [laughter]
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I think people always get surprised
00:01:32
because I'll be chatting like we were
00:01:33
casually, you know, just in the car and
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then all of a sudden once the, you know,
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the clock starts and the and the lights
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go, it's like drop the clutch and you're
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into it and all of a sudden someone else
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is unleashed.
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>> Yeah. So, you and I yesterday yesterday
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morning we're going um backwards and
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forwards down this uh very very narrow
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like farm track forestry. I don't know
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what you'd call it. Um the there's no no
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there's not room for two cars and and
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we're like traveling at speed towards
00:01:57
like an open open gate and I'm thinking
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we're going to hit that gate. Um it's
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incredible what you do. Uh like after a
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couple of runs of just like sort of
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white knuckling watching the road, I
00:02:07
ended up sort of finding myself just
00:02:08
watching watching what you were doing.
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>> Yeah, it's um it is a real skill. Like
00:02:12
when being able to take people for a
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ride is really cool thing about our
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sport. You know, there's a lot of sports
00:02:16
that are very skillful, but you'll never
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get to see someone doing what they do,
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you know, up close and personal. So, in
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a rally car, obviously, we have normally
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have a co-driver who's the person
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calling the pace notes for the road
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ahead. So, we have that passenger seat
00:02:28
where you can take people for a ride and
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be able to experience it because when
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you watch from outside, you just think,
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"Wow, that car is going really fast
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sideways around a corner, but you don't
00:02:36
appreciate the amount of inputs that are
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happening with the throttle and the
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brake and the um hands, you know, just
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to get that car as smooth as possible."
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Yeah. Another big surprise for me was so
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we were together in the car for maybe I
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don't know five or six minutes. It was
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so hot in there.
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>> Yeah.
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>> So [laughter] hot. Was that was that
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just because I was running a hot
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temperature because I was Are you hot as
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well?
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>> Yeah, it is hot. So the cars I mean
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they're purpose built to go racing. So
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there's no um air conditioning. No uh
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you know heat protection to to um well
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there's some heat protection but you get
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a lot of heat through the transmission
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tunnel you know with the gearbox and
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everything. So they run they do run hot
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the cars. Um and then obviously wearing
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the the helmet and the fireproof
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protection um with your overalls and um
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you know underwear and stuff. So yeah,
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it gets very hot. You haven't got much
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exposed skin. So um you know for safety.
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So
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>> how how do you handle that with a longer
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like as I said we were in the car for
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like five or six minutes. How do you
00:03:28
handle that if you're in the car for
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hours?
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>> Uh just fitness is important. Yeah.
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Being fit and being able to to deal with
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that and um yeah and and I I think
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experience helps. You know, you just get
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more more comfortable. I probably wasn't
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as stressed as you were. So [laughter]
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my my my temperature wasn't as high.
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>> Do you have do you have fluids in there?
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>> Uh yeah, have a camel pack, but
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generally won't won't drink during a
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stage because you're that busy and
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intent on what's happening. But yeah,
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making sure that you rehydrate and and
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look after your performance, you know,
00:03:56
for recovery because that's the the sort
00:03:58
of um intense thing about rallying is
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that you go into a stage which can be
00:04:02
anything from um you know, 5 km long to
00:04:05
30 or 40 km long. So you might be
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driving for 5 minutes or you might be
00:04:09
driving for 20 plus minutes. And so you
00:04:11
know in that time your heart rate
00:04:13
everything gets super super high. It's
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really really intense and then bang
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you're back down into just road driving
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mode. Your car they're always legal to
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be able to driven on the road. So you
00:04:22
then just you know paying attention to
00:04:23
road rules and and driving legally
00:04:25
across the road to the next stage that
00:04:26
you get to and then bang your heart
00:04:28
rate's up again and you're performing
00:04:29
for another 5 20 minutes whatever you're
00:04:31
doing. So, it's pretty um important that
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fitness because you've got to be able to
00:04:36
get your heart rate up and then recover
00:04:37
as quick as possible to go again.
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>> Well, I've got some real um baseline
00:04:41
rallying questions here. So, it's hard
00:04:44
with a podcast like this cuz I suppose
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there's a broad audience. So, there'll
00:04:46
be like hardcore like rallying
00:04:48
motorsport Emma Gilmore fans listening
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[laughter]
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and there'll be people that know nothing
00:04:52
about the sport. So for the hardcores,
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maybe you can, you know, skip through
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the next five or 10 minutes, but for
00:04:58
everyone else to sort of like sort of,
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um, give us a base of of what it is you
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do.
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>> Sure.
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>> So, um,
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[snorts and clears throat] how how do
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you know you're good at it? But does
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everyone start does everyone start and
00:05:09
you start pretty [ __ ]
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>> That's a good question actually. I
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because it isn't something that you just
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go, "Oh, yeah, I think I can do this."
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Or I suppose it's something you think
00:05:18
you might want to have a go at. For me,
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I uh I did horse riding in my in my
00:05:22
early years and wherever we went as
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children with mom and dad, we went very
00:05:26
quickly. So, I guess I was used to speed
00:05:28
and cornering and those kind of things.
00:05:30
But
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>> why did you go quickly? They always want
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to go. [laughter]
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>> You have to ask dad.
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>> Or did dad just have a heavy foot?
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>> I think so. [laughter]
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>> Um but uh so I started out um the very
00:05:42
first motorsport event I remember
00:05:43
driving was a what they call a grass car
00:05:46
or an autocross. So, just a grass paddic
00:05:47
with cones in a road car just driving
00:05:49
around the cones. And I guess I probably
00:05:52
had a natural um uh ability to to for
00:05:56
car control and you know with the car
00:05:57
moving and knowing what to do or the
00:05:59
wheel work to to um correct it. But
00:06:01
yeah, I mean that's a huge amount of fun
00:06:02
if anyone's ever thinking about getting
00:06:04
into it or wanting to start a
00:06:05
motorsport. You don't have to have the
00:06:06
you know the full-on car to get started.
00:06:08
You can often get into motorsport at
00:06:10
grassroots level with just your road car
00:06:12
and um and enjoy it that way. What age
00:06:14
do um rally drivers peak?
00:06:17
>> Uh
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>> you've been you've been doing this a
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long time.
00:06:19
>> I have been doing a long time. Yeah. And
00:06:22
I mean look at the likes of you know
00:06:24
famous rally driver Psomeborn um you
00:06:26
know who's unfortunately no longer with
00:06:28
us but he when he passed he was you know
00:06:29
just getting into his prime and he was
00:06:31
48 when he passed. He was about to go do
00:06:33
the World Series
00:06:34
>> actually. Yeah. Peter Brock he's another
00:06:35
one died in a rally car. Um I think he
00:06:36
was 61 at the time.
00:06:37
>> Yeah. Yeah. So it's it's a sport that
00:06:39
rewards experience cuz you you do get
00:06:41
smarter. uh you know there's no shortcut
00:06:44
for experience with a lot of sports you
00:06:45
know you've just got to do the mileage
00:06:46
got to do the apprenticeship kind of
00:06:47
thing of getting that experience so
00:06:49
>> experience helps a lot um I mean a a
00:06:52
great international example is Carlos
00:06:53
saying senior um who still competes in
00:06:56
the DAR rally um you know which is a big
00:06:58
international event and he's well in his
00:06:59
60s but obviously very fit to be able
00:07:01
doing that so yeah I think as long as um
00:07:04
I I guess in terms of peak you know you
00:07:06
look at the young guys now they're the
00:07:08
ones coming through who've started at a
00:07:09
really young age and they're doing very
00:07:10
very well so Um, yeah, it's a it's a
00:07:13
trade-off, you know, young and brave,
00:07:14
but also experience counts for a lot,
00:07:16
too.
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>> Cuz when I watch like Drive, I know it's
00:07:18
a different form of motorsport, but when
00:07:20
I watch Drive to Survive, it's like
00:07:21
they're all babies. [laughter]
00:07:22
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they start so young
00:07:24
in the go-karting and everything. And
00:07:25
and and I think that's a little bit in
00:07:27
rallying as well, but rallying
00:07:29
definitely has probably a Well, I mean,
00:07:31
all motorsport you can do it at at any
00:07:33
age, you know, if you're still getting
00:07:34
your medical and getting your license,
00:07:35
it's something you can do for a long
00:07:36
time.
00:07:37
>> And um co-driver, what does a co-driver
00:07:39
do? Yeah. So, the co-driver. So, every
00:07:41
every rally car will always have two
00:07:43
people in it, the driver. And they're
00:07:44
either called the co-driver or the
00:07:46
navigator. Um, and the co-driver kind of
00:07:48
makes it sound like that they also
00:07:50
drive, but generally they they don't
00:07:51
drive. They they're always there as the
00:07:53
passenger. Um, and it's definitely not
00:07:55
just a passenger. They uh because we um
00:07:58
follow what they call a rally route. Um
00:08:00
they have a a road book that gives us
00:08:02
the directions to get from the rally
00:08:03
start out to that first stage, through
00:08:05
that stage, out to the next stage. So,
00:08:07
you're always on a rally route and and
00:08:09
you have to follow that rally route um
00:08:11
or pain of exclusion from the event kind
00:08:13
of thing. You're always on a clock, so
00:08:15
you've always got to be clocking in on a
00:08:16
certain time to make sure that when you
00:08:18
go into the stage, we all start at
00:08:20
minute intervals or two-minute
00:08:21
intervals. So, everything's very
00:08:23
regulated to work as a motorsport
00:08:25
system. You know, it's not like we go
00:08:26
out onto a racetrack and we're all
00:08:28
starting on the same, you know, start
00:08:29
line kind of thing. It's it's done with
00:08:31
with the clock and um and with these
00:08:33
road books. And so, that's what they do.
00:08:35
they are basically managing us to make
00:08:37
sure we get to the places on time on the
00:08:40
right directions you know we don't get
00:08:42
lost um and then once we get into a
00:08:43
stage they are reading my description or
00:08:46
the driver's description uh of the road
00:08:48
and how to drive it as fast as possible
00:08:50
>> what might they say
00:08:52
>> so um it's again it's what the driver
00:08:55
wants so for example I use a a a note
00:08:58
descriptive system that's 1 to eight um
00:09:01
so for me a one is like a hairpin corner
00:09:03
so if you can imagine a corner that
00:09:04
basically turns back on itself.
00:09:06
>> And for me, an eight is something that
00:09:08
is just barely turning to the left or
00:09:10
the right. So, you know, it might be uh
00:09:13
one left, 200, 7 uh right, um 300 into a
00:09:19
four left, something breaking. And so,
00:09:21
you're always I mean, that might just
00:09:22
sounds like gobbly goop, doesn't it? But
00:09:24
to me, when you're coming at speed and
00:09:26
you're wanting to know what's coming up
00:09:27
over that crest or what's coming around
00:09:29
that corner, you're just fully listening
00:09:31
to what the driver uh the co-driver is
00:09:32
telling you because this is what I've
00:09:34
already seen. This is what I've
00:09:35
described and they're delivering it in
00:09:37
perfect timing. So, I know what gear I
00:09:39
need to be in, how much brake or
00:09:41
acceleration I need to get through there
00:09:42
as fast as possible.
00:09:44
>> I I I I get um car sickness if I'm
00:09:47
reading while [laughter] a passenger in
00:09:49
a car. So, I'd be no good for that. How
00:09:51
do you How do you train for this? Like
00:09:53
I'm I'm a runner and to train for a
00:09:55
running event, you you run.
00:09:56
>> Yes.
00:09:56
>> How like how how can you train for this?
00:09:58
>> Again, it's it's one of the real
00:10:00
challenges with motorsport because every
00:10:01
time you take your car out, it's
00:10:03
expensive. You're either you know using
00:10:05
your tires and fuel and having to have a
00:10:07
secure road where you can um uh you know
00:10:10
do it safely because you can't just go
00:10:11
and do it on the on an open road. Um so
00:10:14
generally when you're learning you're
00:10:16
just it's doing lots of club events. Um
00:10:17
when I very first started, I um
00:10:20
contacted a local quarry and they'd let
00:10:21
me go in there after hours and just go
00:10:23
and play effectively because I'd never
00:10:25
really been a boy racer. You know, I'd
00:10:27
never gone out and played on gravel
00:10:28
roads. I'd never learned how to do a
00:10:30
Scandinavian flick as they call it where
00:10:32
you turn the car one direction for it to
00:10:33
then pivot to go the other direction. So
00:10:35
all those things I'd never really gone
00:10:37
and done as a kid or as a teenager. So
00:10:40
having an access to a quarry and being
00:10:42
able to play safely was was very um
00:10:44
fundamental in my learning journey.
00:10:46
>> And at at the top level, this is
00:10:48
something you hear a lot in in Formula
00:10:49
1. You hear about like it's it's more
00:10:51
the car than the driver. Um at the top
00:10:53
level of rallying, like where you're at,
00:10:55
how much of it is the the driver versus
00:10:57
the car.
00:10:57
>> Uh I mean, I sort of think of myself
00:11:00
like I'm I'm in the the top level of New
00:11:02
Zealand, but but we're very much still
00:11:05
amateur sport in New Zealand. like
00:11:06
everyone in New Zealand has still got a
00:11:08
day job. You know, there's no one that's
00:11:10
really professional except for the likes
00:11:11
of Hayden Pattern who, you know, has
00:11:13
been on the world scene and he's he's
00:11:15
all our benchmark when we race against
00:11:17
him because he's just another level
00:11:19
above of of what we drive at because of
00:11:22
his experience and his mileage and his
00:11:24
dedication and all of that kind of
00:11:25
thing. So, um I've now forgotten what
00:11:28
the original question was, what you
00:11:30
[laughter] car versus car,
00:11:31
>> car versus car, uh driver. Um
00:11:34
yeah, when when we then look at the
00:11:36
world championship where I mean the car
00:11:39
Yeah, the the cars are the cars are
00:11:41
important. Yeah, definitely. But but the
00:11:43
drivers are still I think I think in
00:11:45
rallying I think it's maybe driver has a
00:11:48
bigger impact because there's so many
00:11:50
other variables with rallying with the
00:11:51
surface, the road, the co- driver, the
00:11:54
you know all those things. But yeah, the
00:11:55
the car is important as well.
00:11:57
>> The the car we were in yesterday, what
00:11:58
would that be worth? Uh, so brand new,
00:12:00
one of those at the moment the euro is
00:12:02
really not good for us to be buying cars
00:12:04
out of Europe. Um, so if I was buying a
00:12:06
brand new equivalent car, so my car is
00:12:08
is 6 years old now. But, um, I was just
00:12:10
discussing that with Ben yesterday and
00:12:12
um, I think they're about they're about
00:12:15
350 350,000. So for the moment Yeah.
00:12:20
Yeah.
00:12:20
>> What's that like 700,000 bucks?
00:12:22
>> Yeah. At least they're crazy. Yeah.
00:12:25
>> Oh my god. I I didn't pay that for my
00:12:28
[laughter]
00:12:29
>> if you had to.
00:12:30
>> But but it's a it's an international car
00:12:32
that you It has an international market,
00:12:34
so it can go anywhere. And
00:12:37
>> um and the technology in them is
00:12:39
probably what used to be the top tier
00:12:41
world rally car, you know, 15 years ago.
00:12:43
They're just they're serious bits of
00:12:45
kit, but um yeah, crazy money. Crazy
00:12:47
[snorts] money. And if if you had to pie
00:12:49
chart it, um what percentage of what you
00:12:51
do is driving versus say fundraising,
00:12:53
keeping sponsors happy, navigating
00:12:55
politics, [laughter]
00:12:56
you know, the whole
00:12:57
>> Yeah, the whole thing.
00:12:58
>> What I saw yesterday was the fun bit.
00:13:00
But it again, it was um it was I suppose
00:13:03
you'd call it a sponsor's day. So yes,
00:13:05
you you've been out of the country. I'm
00:13:06
sure you'd rather be straight home, but
00:13:07
you got to,
00:13:08
>> you know, drive around schmucks like me
00:13:10
for a day. [laughter]
00:13:12
>> No, not at all. I mean, that's that's
00:13:13
the that is the fun bit of the sport.
00:13:15
And when you do get stuck in the uh
00:13:18
grind of the sponsorship finding and the
00:13:20
um
00:13:22
it's more the it's just hard work
00:13:25
sometimes, you know, all the logistics,
00:13:26
everything that goes into being able to
00:13:27
go and do what we did yesterday. There's
00:13:29
a lot of work behind the scenes. So to
00:13:31
finally get back in the car and do the
00:13:33
fun bit is is super cool because the
00:13:35
reality is that probably the fun bit of
00:13:37
the whole effort that goes into it is
00:13:39
probably like
00:13:40
>> 10% I'm guessing. I don't know. You
00:13:42
don't think about it because you
00:13:44
probably would go [laughter] this this
00:13:45
doesn't stack up.
00:13:46
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, do you make any
00:13:48
money as a driver or is all all the
00:13:50
sponsors just just to cover the cost
00:13:53
water?
00:13:53
>> At the moment, at the moment, I've been
00:13:55
fortunate enough in my career that at
00:13:56
different times I've been paid to drive.
00:13:58
But if if you wait it all up, the money
00:14:01
I've been paid to drive versus the
00:14:02
amount of sponsorship I've found to keep
00:14:04
to keep doing it, um yeah, it's not a
00:14:07
you don't do the sport to to uh become
00:14:09
wealthy. But uh I've been very uh very
00:14:12
lucky. I've had amazing sponsors right
00:14:13
throughout my career like Vantage
00:14:15
Windows and Doors who were there with
00:14:16
yesterday. Uh they've been with me for
00:14:18
21 years which is just unreal. So yeah,
00:14:21
super lucky.
00:14:21
>> Is that your almost your entire career?
00:14:24
>> Yeah, almost. Yeah, they came on board
00:14:25
really early.
00:14:26
>> That's such a special relationship.
00:14:28
That's like like sort of kind of like
00:14:29
Matt Watson with um ITM for his fishing
00:14:32
show. How Yeah. What's in it for them?
00:14:34
What's the return on investment for
00:14:35
them? I think I think what's been super
00:14:37
cool was um they they sponsored Pawsum
00:14:40
um when he was rallying and uh Craig
00:14:43
Vincent who's like a mentor to me and he
00:14:45
used to co-drive for Pawsome um you know
00:14:47
has a passion for the sport and he's um
00:14:49
you know runs the Vantage windows and
00:14:51
doors and and the um the other
00:14:53
companies. So having that support um you
00:14:55
know they've been amazingly loyal to me
00:14:57
because I've you know I've had the the
00:14:58
down seasons as well as the good seasons
00:15:00
and um and that's that's been great. I
00:15:03
think they've seen me as a a great
00:15:04
ambassador for the sport and um and
00:15:06
being a female has always sort of given
00:15:08
I suppose something that makes me sets
00:15:10
me apart from from other drivers.
00:15:12
>> Yeah, there's so much to crack into with
00:15:14
that. Um [laughter]
00:15:15
like I'm sure you've seen seismic change
00:15:17
in your career. Um but I'm sure there
00:15:20
were some awful conversations especially
00:15:22
early on. We'll get to that. [laughter]
00:15:24
Um yeah, thanks for all that um yeah,
00:15:26
rallying 101. It's really cool.
00:15:28
[laughter] Right, we'll go back to the
00:15:28
early years. Eh.
00:15:29
>> Okay.
00:15:30
>> Okay. Um, so family dynamics. Dad and
00:15:32
granddad both mechanics. You used to
00:15:34
help your dad build go-karts.
00:15:37
>> Oh, that's one picture. [laughter]
00:15:39
>> Is that I I can make that sound like
00:15:42
Yeah. But no, dad dad did a bit of
00:15:43
go-karting. So um but yeah, I I mean
00:15:46
early days I probably of dad with cars.
00:15:47
I mean he was always always working in
00:15:49
the garage and and building them and um
00:15:51
you know in the 80s he built a replica
00:15:54
listister Jaguar in the garage and he's
00:15:56
very very talented um u builder engineer
00:15:59
type um you know mechanic so yeah just
00:16:02
cars were always just cars were always
00:16:03
part of the picture I guess and um yeah
00:16:06
but we never were really into racing
00:16:08
because I guess dad was you know working
00:16:09
hard in business and and had young
00:16:11
family so um yeah it was very much that
00:16:14
me and my sister we got into horse
00:16:15
riding which was another expensive
00:16:17
Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Parents. Um Yeah.
00:16:20
So siblings. So another sister.
00:16:22
>> Yes. Older sister, Monica.
00:16:23
>> Right. So just two girls.
00:16:24
>> Yes.
00:16:24
>> So were you sort of like um
00:16:26
>> Yeah. Were you sort of like a daddy's
00:16:27
girl? Like you sort of gravitated
00:16:29
towards the the mechanical stuff?
00:16:33
>> Uh I don't know like I always um we're
00:16:36
really close family and I think you know
00:16:39
it was just like when you talk about
00:16:40
daddy it was never sort of a gender
00:16:42
thing I guess is a thing and that's
00:16:44
possibly in having another sister. you
00:16:46
know, it wasn't wasn't so apparent a
00:16:48
gender thing of of of being daddy's
00:16:50
girl, but you know, we always enjoyed
00:16:52
doing things as a family and, you know,
00:16:53
I enjoyed riding pillion and dad's
00:16:55
motorbike and all those kind of things.
00:16:57
So, I I enjoyed spending time um with
00:17:00
dad doing I guess what you'd class as
00:17:02
more masculine things, I guess. I don't
00:17:04
know. But, um it was never sort of I
00:17:07
guess made a thing if that makes sense.
00:17:09
>> Yeah.
00:17:10
>> And the um the the horse riding thing.
00:17:12
So, I hear you're a massive fan of Mark
00:17:13
Todd. Yes. Um, so you had like um
00:17:15
Olympic or Commonwealth aspirations.
00:17:18
>> Yeah. And and you know when people
00:17:20
always ask you who did you look up to?
00:17:21
It was definitely Mark Todd. Like I
00:17:22
remember him and Charisma winning their
00:17:24
second Olympic gold and it was just so
00:17:25
cool. And you know Pony Club Kid and you
00:17:28
know seeing what what he achieved was
00:17:29
was amazing. And um you know I think
00:17:32
horse riding is such a it's such a
00:17:34
humbling sport because it's um you know
00:17:36
horses don't care about your ego at all.
00:17:38
you know, they don't care what what
00:17:40
training you've put in or that it might
00:17:42
be your birthday and that they should
00:17:43
really perform and be nice to you. They
00:17:44
they just, you know, they they keep you
00:17:46
very level and um you know, and and I
00:17:49
was, you know, reflecting on it growing
00:17:50
up having these um you know, women in
00:17:53
front of me riding their horses and
00:17:54
stuff and they're just so gutsy. Like
00:17:56
it's such a gutsy sport and um and I
00:17:58
think it was probably, you know, those
00:17:59
kind of people growing up as a as a
00:18:01
young girl looking up to the you know,
00:18:03
the older riders and and seeing what
00:18:05
they were achieving that was really
00:18:06
inspiring for me.
00:18:08
Why did you give up on that dream?
00:18:10
>> Uh it kind of came to a head like I it
00:18:14
was what I wanted to do but then
00:18:15
probably in my gut I knew it sort of
00:18:18
came to a head this day. I had this
00:18:19
young horse and uh he I'd asked him to
00:18:22
do something and he didn't want to do it
00:18:24
and [laughter] he started rearing up and
00:18:28
um and I got off cuz I was scared and I
00:18:31
thought ah god to win this argument you
00:18:33
know I'm going to have to go and do this
00:18:34
blah blah blah you know get him tired so
00:18:37
I can I was like [sighs and gasps] I'm
00:18:39
just this I'm out I've had enough you
00:18:42
know and and it wasn't like it was just
00:18:43
one day obviously had been building I'd
00:18:46
had a friend that had a really bad um
00:18:48
life-changing injury from horse riding.
00:18:50
Had another, you know, person I knew had
00:18:52
a bad head injury from horse riding. Um,
00:18:54
a very very talented um, rider in New
00:18:57
Zealand scene. She had a a fall that had
00:19:00
left her as a as a um, you know,
00:19:02
paraplegic and you're just like, I'm not
00:19:04
getting the kick out of this for the
00:19:06
risk that I'm taking and, you know, the
00:19:08
effort that I'm putting in cuz it's such
00:19:09
a lifestyle. The horses, you know, it's
00:19:11
everything. It's every day. It's, you
00:19:13
know, it's a real commitment. And um
00:19:15
yeah, and I guess part of it was kind of
00:19:17
feeling that pressure because you've got
00:19:19
the horse trucks, the horse floats, the
00:19:21
paddics, the horses, you know, like it's
00:19:22
huge, you know, it's everything. And and
00:19:24
[snorts] so there's probably a bit of
00:19:26
you keep doing it because of the
00:19:27
pressure and the momentum you've got
00:19:29
there. But then this isn't me. I'm I'm
00:19:32
just not happy. And and I was amazing.
00:19:34
It was amazing that my parents, you
00:19:35
know, when I said to them, you know, and
00:19:36
they were like, you know, they were
00:19:38
really supportive of my decision. and um
00:19:40
you know and they just said you you'd
00:19:42
always regret injuring yourself doing
00:19:44
something that your heart's not in you
00:19:46
know that that you're not fully behind.
00:19:48
Um and yeah and it sort of was just such
00:19:50
relief when I when I made the call. You
00:19:52
know there was tears of sadness and and
00:19:55
everything you're giving up on but it
00:19:56
was also tears of relief cuz I kind of
00:19:58
was listening to to what my gut was
00:20:00
saying.
00:20:00
>> What age was that?
00:20:02
>> I think it was about 19 or 20.
00:20:04
>> Right. Oh. So you pretty much replaced
00:20:06
that immediately with um
00:20:08
>> I'd started navigating. So I'd started
00:20:10
in the co-driver's seat for my sister
00:20:13
Monica who had started rallying and also
00:20:14
my cousin Gwyn who was also rallying. So
00:20:17
the family was sort of discovering
00:20:18
rallying in the time that I was also
00:20:20
deciding about my horse riding. But that
00:20:22
it didn't influence it at all. Like I
00:20:25
was enjoying the the navigating. I
00:20:26
enjoyed being the co-driver in the in
00:20:28
the um rally car, but it wasn't why um I
00:20:31
gave up the horses. It was definitely a
00:20:33
a sole decision. And and because I then
00:20:36
had time, I like went and got into other
00:20:38
things like I did a season of rowing and
00:20:40
did um you know downhill mountain biking
00:20:42
and got into motorbikes like trail
00:20:44
riding and stuff. So because horses was
00:20:46
so all-consuming it was um I hadn't had
00:20:48
that time to try and do other sports or
00:20:50
other things.
00:20:52
>> Can you remember the the first the first
00:20:54
um time you drove, the first time you
00:20:55
raced?
00:20:56
>> Uh I do. So, I had um the opportunity to
00:21:02
uh to buy my cousin's rally car, which
00:21:05
was a Mitsubishi Evo3, which at the time
00:21:07
was a really good car cuz we were sort
00:21:08
of talking early 2000s, so it wasn't
00:21:10
such an old car then. And um the the
00:21:13
plan was I wanted to do the Tiger Rally,
00:21:16
which was a is a week-long tarmac event
00:21:18
at the end of the year. And um and I'd
00:21:20
co-driven in that rally, so I was
00:21:22
familiar with the rally. Um and I
00:21:24
thought that would be a good event to to
00:21:25
go do. And um cuz I want to go do that,
00:21:28
dad said, "Well, I think I should sit
00:21:29
with you on your first event just to
00:21:30
make sure you're going to be okay." And
00:21:32
so we headed up to the North Island to
00:21:34
do a one-day tarmac rally um in Tamanui.
00:21:38
And so we head off into this event. And
00:21:41
I was I guess I was used to the speed
00:21:43
cuz I'd been sitting beside someone, but
00:21:44
it's a little bit different when you're
00:21:46
in charge of the pedals and the steering
00:21:47
wheel. But um dad is always been very um
00:21:52
calm and encouraging and always probably
00:21:54
believed in our ability before maybe you
00:21:56
know me and my sister did you know he
00:21:57
was always he would never be a a
00:21:59
panicker or you know going watch out
00:22:01
watch out or anything like that. So he
00:22:03
was always very brave sitting there but
00:22:05
always sort of backed us and through
00:22:07
with his encouragement and just sort of
00:22:09
improving during the day, you know, we
00:22:10
ended up finishing we finished sixth
00:22:12
overall out of a 100 cars and and we won
00:22:14
our class and and I just loved it. Like
00:22:17
it wasn't I didn't do it to win, if that
00:22:19
makes sense. Like I just love the thrill
00:22:20
of having a road to yourself. There's no
00:22:22
oncoming traffic. There's no police
00:22:24
officers. It's like just drive as fast
00:22:26
as you can and um you know and the
00:22:28
feeling of a car when you're driving it
00:22:30
as fast as you can and it's moving and
00:22:32
it's dancing like it's just it reminds
00:22:34
me so much of the horse riding um you
00:22:36
know being at one with a machine or
00:22:37
being at one with a horse. It's it's a
00:22:39
really addictive feeling. It's cool.
00:22:41
>> Six out of 100's amazing.
00:22:43
>> Yeah. Well, I
00:22:45
>> that that that to me says there's um an
00:22:47
element of perhaps natural talent.
00:22:48
>> I think so. And I absolutely and and and
00:22:51
from that I had a friend who was a
00:22:54
professional co-driver and um and I just
00:22:57
casually said to him about you know the
00:22:58
result I'd got and he was like that's
00:22:59
that's really good and I'm sort of like
00:23:01
oh yeah I didn't sort of pick up on it
00:23:04
and um I then had the opportunity
00:23:07
because I was in the organizing
00:23:08
committee with our local rally the
00:23:10
targetgo rally and at these rallies
00:23:12
before the the course kind of goes fully
00:23:14
live they have what they call a course
00:23:16
car or a zero car that goes in before
00:23:18
the field. um just to make sure that you
00:23:20
know spectators know the cars are coming
00:23:21
and all that kind of stuff. So I had the
00:23:24
opportunity to be the zero car for our
00:23:26
home rally and um I asked my friend the
00:23:29
professional co-driver I said I would
00:23:31
well I asked dad I said dad would you
00:23:33
co-drive for me on the gravel and he's
00:23:34
like well I I don't know how to drive on
00:23:36
gravel so you're better off getting
00:23:38
someone to sit beside you who can teach
00:23:40
you how to drive on gravel. Um and I
00:23:42
asked a few local people and none of
00:23:44
them were that keen. They're [laughter]
00:23:45
probably quite smart. And um and I said
00:23:48
to to Glenn, I said, "Would you come
00:23:51
over and and sit with me?" And because
00:23:53
being a professional co-driver, he's sat
00:23:55
beside so many drivers and he's actually
00:23:57
seen what the good drivers are doing. So
00:23:59
it was a really smart move really like
00:24:01
it ended up I didn't appreciate it fully
00:24:03
at the time, but with hindsight, it was
00:24:04
it worked out really well. So he came
00:24:07
over, we're heading out to the first
00:24:08
stage, and I said to him, I said, "So so
00:24:10
how do I drive on gravel?" And um he
00:24:13
thought I was taking the piss. He didn't
00:24:14
realize that I'd never driven on gravel.
00:24:16
[laughter]
00:24:17
I maybe admitted that fact when I'd been
00:24:19
telling or asking him about coming over
00:24:21
and and sitting with me. So, um it was a
00:24:24
again a sort of a thrown in the deep
00:24:27
end. And um with his being able to apply
00:24:29
his you know feedback and uh you know
00:24:32
all the things he was teaching me um you
00:24:34
know over that course of that weekend we
00:24:36
you know we we weren't officially in the
00:24:38
rally but we were sitting really
00:24:39
competitive like top 10 times type
00:24:41
thing. So, I just had a natural feel for
00:24:44
it, I guess. And I think a lot of the
00:24:46
horse riding skills apply. It's that
00:24:49
whole thing of like when things are
00:24:50
turning to [ __ ] like when it's like,
00:24:52
"Oh, I break late or the line's wrong or
00:24:55
something's not good, like there's no
00:24:57
abort button, like you've still just got
00:24:59
to focus forward and and sort of go for
00:25:01
it." And I think [clears throat] that's
00:25:02
what crossed over really well from the
00:25:04
horse riding into the cars.
00:25:06
>> How many how many women were on the
00:25:08
scene at that point? It's it's still
00:25:09
still quite a male-dominated sport e but
00:25:11
I'd imagine in the early 2000s even more
00:25:13
so.
00:25:14
>> Well, we've had we've had really
00:25:15
successful um we have had successful
00:25:17
female drivers coming through and or not
00:25:19
coming through sorry like competing
00:25:21
before me. So Deborah Kibble um she's a
00:25:24
national rally champion and she became
00:25:26
the production national rally champion
00:25:28
when I was co-driving. So for me again I
00:25:31
suppose coming from horse riding gender
00:25:33
wasn't a thing in horse riding. So for
00:25:35
me it wasn't really a thing like I just
00:25:37
didn't see it as a thing when I came
00:25:38
into the motorsport either. It was more
00:25:40
it was more the the some of the men that
00:25:42
had the [laughter] the thing you know
00:25:44
about getting beaten by a girl than then
00:25:46
for me seeing any reason why I couldn't
00:25:48
do it.
00:25:49
>> Yeah.
00:25:49
>> Yeah. Any any sort of comments that
00:25:51
stuck with you from in particular those
00:25:53
early days?
00:25:54
>> Uh I'll give you an example. I put on
00:25:57
Instagram um yesterday that you're
00:25:58
coming in here and are there any
00:25:59
questions and there was someone that
00:26:00
made a a comment. It was a joke, but
00:26:03
just not a very good one. Saying, "Ask
00:26:05
her. Ask her if she um Yeah. You know,
00:26:07
if she curbs her rims more than the
00:26:09
guys," [laughter] or something like
00:26:10
that. Just a dumb comment.
00:26:12
>> Yeah. Um I feel like I feel like you had
00:26:15
that added pressure that you had to be
00:26:17
doing a better job like as in because
00:26:19
otherwise you'd be feeding the
00:26:20
stereotype of curving your wheels or not
00:26:23
be able to park or, you know, so I guess
00:26:25
you you had all this you felt more
00:26:27
pressure because you didn't want to feed
00:26:28
that stereotype of of that expectation.
00:26:31
But and I guess I'll never know what it
00:26:33
would be like to be a young man starting
00:26:35
in the sport. So I don't know what
00:26:36
pressures they feel and face, you know.
00:26:38
So it's it's it's for me um
00:26:42
I always I always saw it as a as a
00:26:45
positive advantage because I stood out
00:26:47
and it helped for media exposure for my
00:26:50
sponsors for all of those other things
00:26:51
that came with it. So I I focused on it
00:26:54
but on the positives rather than the
00:26:56
negatives.
00:26:56
>> It's a great way of looking at it.
00:26:57
>> Yeah. But it's it's like I say, I'll
00:26:59
never know what it would have been like
00:27:00
to have been had my talent and just rock
00:27:03
up and already have that kind of street
00:27:05
cred that you're okay, you know, rather
00:27:07
than feeling like you've always got to
00:27:08
prove yourself or make sure that you
00:27:10
feel like you belong. So,
00:27:12
>> yeah, it's it's an interesting one.
00:27:14
[snorts]
00:27:14
>> Um, how if if in any way has the
00:27:17
industry changed for women since you
00:27:18
first started and is there anything that
00:27:19
still needs to change?
00:27:20
>> I think like I was again reflecting on
00:27:23
this, I think
00:27:25
it was it's
00:27:27
And again, I've been lucky enough to
00:27:29
race overseas, so I see it in different
00:27:30
countries. I think in New Zealand, it's
00:27:32
it's very much um quite accepted. Like I
00:27:36
don't I don't think it's that big a deal
00:27:37
because I I and and again, I've probably
00:27:39
given this a lot of thought because I
00:27:40
get always get asked questions about it,
00:27:42
but I feel Kiwi women are really
00:27:44
capable. And I don't know if it's that
00:27:46
from the early days when the men went
00:27:49
away to war and the women were left to
00:27:50
run the farms and do all that stuff like
00:27:52
Kiwi women have always been able to, you
00:27:53
know, muck and get things done. you
00:27:55
know, we're not princesses as a general
00:27:57
rule. You know, we're all very very very
00:27:59
capable and I and I feel there's sort of
00:28:01
that level of respect from the men
00:28:03
towards our Kiwi women and that's sort
00:28:05
of what I feel. But when I've raced in
00:28:08
Europe for example definitely more um uh
00:28:12
chauvinistic I feel towards women you
00:28:14
know it it again but then I now say more
00:28:17
recently I feel it hasn't it has
00:28:19
improved a lot and I feel like now it's
00:28:22
almost not even a thing that there's a
00:28:24
woman there competing I don't know you
00:28:26
know I don't see it from the outside in
00:28:28
but I think when you see the likes of
00:28:30
what's happening uh on the global stage
00:28:32
with you know where they have these
00:28:33
women's series and um with the in the
00:28:37
Formula 1 with the women's academy. Um
00:28:39
it's
00:28:41
yeah, it's changing. It's definitely
00:28:43
changing. It's um and and
00:28:47
but yeah, like I say, I feel like it's
00:28:48
always been a a strong a strength of our
00:28:50
of our Kiwi competition. Um but probably
00:28:54
now see a lot more women in the [snorts]
00:28:56
navigators and the co-driving and the
00:28:58
organizing. There's Yeah, like I think
00:28:59
at one of their target rallies recently,
00:29:01
like they had really high percentage of
00:29:03
female competition, which was awesome to
00:29:05
see. and you've been doing it um such a
00:29:07
long time now. Do do you do you get like
00:29:10
you know female drivers coming up to you
00:29:11
in their say 20s or even 30s saying
00:29:13
you're the reason I got into the sport.
00:29:15
>> Uh I haven't not not directly nothing
00:29:18
comes to mind directly but I think the
00:29:20
really the cool thing is like well again
00:29:23
the we kids that I used to be bouncing
00:29:25
on my hip or someone would bring up in
00:29:26
the service park and now like these big
00:29:28
[laughter] kids or adults teenagers type
00:29:30
thing and just I guess inspiring people.
00:29:33
Well, I don't know if they necessarily
00:29:34
have to be getting into the sport, but
00:29:35
just that fact of giving things a go,
00:29:37
you know, not being afraid to try
00:29:39
things.
00:29:39
>> Yeah. Um, some career highlights.
00:29:43
>> Yeah. What What is it for you if you had
00:29:45
to say your top three career highlights?
00:29:47
What would they be?
00:29:48
>> Uh, it would be becoming the first uh
00:29:51
female driver for McLaren. That was
00:29:53
>> 2022.
00:29:53
>> Yeah, that was very special. Uh, winning
00:29:56
uh becoming the first woman to win a
00:29:57
round of the New Zealand Rally
00:29:58
Championship 2016. Yeah.
00:30:00
>> Yep. And
00:30:04
Third thing,
00:30:06
>> the 2015 woman in motorsport award.
00:30:09
>> Yeah, that was that was cool. I think I
00:30:10
think it would be a more general thing
00:30:12
in that the cool sports the cool other
00:30:15
motorsports I've got to go and do, you
00:30:16
know, overseas like um I finished second
00:30:18
in the Asia Pacific Series in09. That
00:30:20
was pretty cool, too. So, yeah, it was a
00:30:22
cool experience.
00:30:24
>> Yeah. So the the McLaren thing, uh,
00:30:26
first female factory driver for McLaren,
00:30:28
which is sick. I think it makes it even
00:30:31
more sort of poignant or [laughter]
00:30:32
special with the Kiwi Connection with
00:30:34
Bruce McLaren. Very cool.
00:30:35
>> Um, yeah. How did that opportunity come
00:30:37
about?
00:30:38
>> Uh,
00:30:38
>> you get an email or something, right?
00:30:40
>> Yeah. Yeah. It was very I
00:30:43
going [clears throat] to further a step
00:30:44
backwards is uh this series came on the
00:30:46
scene sort of postco I think it was
00:30:48
2021. It came out. There was this press
00:30:51
release. It was the first I'd heard of
00:30:52
it and a a friend sent it to me and he
00:30:54
says um this would be perfect for you
00:30:56
and it was a a series that was going to
00:30:58
happen and it was um going to be fully
00:31:02
electric off-road racing vehicles going
00:31:03
to parts of the planet that had never
00:31:05
seen racing before showing that racing
00:31:07
could be done in a sustainable way. Um
00:31:09
and every car would have a male and a
00:31:11
female driver. And um I thought, well,
00:31:14
that sounds very out there. like, is
00:31:16
this actually real or is it going to be
00:31:17
like a simulator race type thing cuz it
00:31:19
just seems so futuristic. Um he's like,
00:31:21
"No, no, it's actually real." So, this
00:31:24
started being talked about in it must
00:31:26
have been 2020. So, 2021 was the first
00:31:29
season that it happened. And um I like I
00:31:32
desperately wanted to be part of of the
00:31:34
championship because I was like, I
00:31:35
wanted to get a seat in one of the teams
00:31:36
so that I could do this international
00:31:38
racing. And um I basically was talking
00:31:42
to this team all the way through. You
00:31:44
know, I was waiting for the contract to
00:31:46
go to the testing to do all the the
00:31:48
signing up and everything. It all
00:31:49
sounded great, but the funding never
00:31:51
came through. And so the the entry never
00:31:54
happened. So I ended up without a seat
00:31:55
for the very first season of this
00:31:56
series, which was called Extreme E. And
00:31:59
um I was you know beyond disappointed
00:32:01
cuz I was like I so wanted to be there
00:32:03
you know and it was this opportunity for
00:32:05
women in motorsport to be on the world
00:32:07
stage cuz it's never been done before
00:32:09
where we're basically given that you
00:32:11
know equal opportunity up there because
00:32:13
I've had many overseas opportunities but
00:32:16
um quite often it's you're just the
00:32:18
token girl. They don't really need you
00:32:19
to be competitive as in this was a car
00:32:21
where you're 50/50 part of the team. You
00:32:23
needed the to be competitive for the
00:32:24
team to be successful. So really wanted
00:32:26
to be part of it. um so disappointed.
00:32:29
But then I ended up talking with a team
00:32:32
that um they needed a stand-in driver
00:32:35
for a couple of events because their
00:32:36
female first female driver had other
00:32:38
commitments with her racing. So I was
00:32:41
took the opportunity because it was a
00:32:42
way to get seen and hopefully get an
00:32:44
opportunity for another seat. Um, so
00:32:47
that was happening, but in the meantime,
00:32:50
uh, this press release came out
00:32:51
overnight saying that McLaren was going
00:32:52
to be joining the series in the
00:32:54
following year. And I was like, wow,
00:32:56
McLaren, how cool would that be? That
00:32:57
would be amazing. You know, who do I
00:32:59
need to speak to there, Zack? And I'm
00:33:01
like, man, I've got an email from Zack.
00:33:04
And I just, it was one of those early
00:33:06
morning where you flick through your
00:33:07
inbox and you're like, yeah, it's just,
00:33:09
you know, spam, whatever. And it's like,
00:33:10
>> and it was an email from him wanting to
00:33:12
speak to me. And, um, you know, it all
00:33:14
happened so fast. So you know say that
00:33:16
was the Saturday morning I was talking
00:33:17
to him that night had another interview
00:33:19
with more people on the Monday and yeah
00:33:22
contracts and all that sort of stuff
00:33:23
started happening. So it was so surreal
00:33:26
you know one minute you're watching this
00:33:28
man who's up on drive to survive you
00:33:29
know running McLaren and and I mean
00:33:31
McLaren you as a child you you know it's
00:33:34
such a it's a name you're so proud of to
00:33:36
be associated with New Zealand. um
00:33:38
you're just you know motoring royalty
00:33:40
and uh
00:33:41
>> yeah it just you could you could never I
00:33:43
could never have scripted it or dreamt
00:33:45
it or imagined it that um you know that
00:33:48
I would get to drive for them. It's just
00:33:50
you know I'm a rally driver from New
00:33:51
Zealand not not an F1 driver obviously.
00:33:55
[laughter]
00:33:55
>> It's it's why um will there ever be a
00:33:59
female F1 driver?
00:34:01
>> I hope so. I hope so.
00:34:03
>> Why has there not been until now? I
00:34:05
think
00:34:07
I think the thing that I mean I mean you
00:34:09
can see it now with Liam Lawson in in
00:34:11
the Formula 1. It is such a hard sport
00:34:15
like and everyone now has a much better
00:34:16
appreciation of when when you watch the
00:34:18
Drive to Survive series on Netflix is
00:34:21
you know it's it's not just your talent.
00:34:23
Talent's one part of it but like we were
00:34:25
discussing earlier like everyone is
00:34:27
super talented at that level. I mean
00:34:28
they're the 20 best drivers in the world
00:34:30
you could argue but you then need the
00:34:32
car and you need the money. You need the
00:34:34
backing. You need someone in your corner
00:34:35
that's, you know, helping things happen,
00:34:37
but then you also need a bit of luck,
00:34:39
you know, like it it's hard if you're
00:34:41
not running at the front of the field.
00:34:42
It's, you know, you're dealing with all
00:34:43
the back markers, you're dealing with
00:34:44
other race traffic, you know, it's it's
00:34:46
just such a tough sport. Such a tough
00:34:48
sport. And and I think, you know, I
00:34:51
think it's it's so overlooked that, you
00:34:53
know, there's there's so many talented
00:34:56
race car drivers out there that have
00:34:57
never made it to F1, you know, like so,
00:35:00
>> you know, I'd love I'd love to say that
00:35:02
if a female will get there, but, you
00:35:04
know, there's there's thousands of these
00:35:07
talented drivers out there, you know, so
00:35:09
we start with so such a smaller pool of
00:35:12
girls at the bottom, you know, there's
00:35:13
not as many girls doing it. So, it's,
00:35:15
you know, to filter to get to that top
00:35:16
top spot, you know, it it's a pretty
00:35:19
pretty tough road to get there.
00:35:21
>> Yeah.
00:35:22
>> Yeah, that's an interesting insight. Um,
00:35:24
yeah, we should be we should be so proud
00:35:25
of Liam Lawson, like the odds that he's
00:35:27
defied to get where he is.
00:35:29
>> Absolutely amazing. and just um you know
00:35:31
and just they're just they're kind of
00:35:33
treated like um Hollywood stars you know
00:35:36
the criticisms that they get you know
00:35:37
like you can see how quickly it's turned
00:35:39
on Oscar who was you know absolutely
00:35:41
dominating the start of the season and
00:35:43
now he's having a having a tough run but
00:35:46
I mean you don't lose talent you know
00:35:47
he's still a super super talented driver
00:35:49
but there's so many other things that
00:35:51
come into it
00:35:52
>> you know so back to you and the McLaren
00:35:54
thing so um so when you when you get the
00:35:57
good news like do you have to are you
00:35:58
sworn to secrecy Yeah. How for how long?
00:36:01
>> Uh it was about it's about four four or
00:36:04
five months.
00:36:04
>> Oh my god. Who who did you tell?
00:36:07
>> Uh family knew, friends knew, and I mean
00:36:11
yeah, it was um yeah, it was a hard
00:36:12
secret to sit on. [laughter]
00:36:14
>> That's such a long time to be sitting on
00:36:16
a secret. Oh my god. It was um yeah,
00:36:19
it's still it still gives me goosebumps
00:36:21
thinking about it because it was just
00:36:23
such a and it was such a thing that I
00:36:25
never saw coming this late in my career,
00:36:27
you know, like you kind of you're so
00:36:29
impatient when you start in a sport and
00:36:30
you so want to achieve and you so want
00:36:32
to get to the top and then when things
00:36:34
when you sort of have that dose of
00:36:35
reality that [ __ ] this is really hard
00:36:38
and [laughter] it's there's a lot of
00:36:39
things that go against you and you know
00:36:41
to sort of to have kept having that
00:36:43
tenacity to stick at it that um yeah to
00:36:47
then get rewarded with that kind of
00:36:48
opportunity was just amazing.
00:36:50
>> Your your staff at um Gilmore Motors for
00:36:53
months they must have been like Emma's
00:36:54
in a really really good mood and we
00:36:56
don't know why were you just like
00:36:58
grinning from ear [laughter] to ear for
00:36:59
months.
00:37:00
>> Um like they would have been in my
00:37:02
circle I think when I was when I was
00:37:03
telling them what was happening. So um
00:37:05
>> yeah but it was it was when I had then I
00:37:08
then went overseas quite early on there
00:37:10
because that was when I was getting
00:37:12
those standin drives with the other
00:37:14
team. So, um, yeah, so I was over in the
00:37:16
UK and then couldn't get home because of
00:37:18
CO and all those other things. So,
00:37:20
probably made it easier to keep the
00:37:21
secret when [laughter]
00:37:22
>> um, and, um, yeah, the Extreme A with
00:37:25
McLaren. What's it like driving an all
00:37:26
electric rally car compared to a
00:37:28
traditional one?
00:37:29
>> Uh, I got such a shock when I first
00:37:31
jumped in the car cuz how they looked on
00:37:32
TV to then driving one like the
00:37:35
initially the very first car, they kind
00:37:36
of evolved a bit. So, the first team I
00:37:39
drove with in 2021 like they're they
00:37:41
were that was an awful car to drive.
00:37:43
[laughter]
00:37:45
Yeah, big and heavy. The power was
00:37:48
amazing. Like electric is just instant,
00:37:49
you know, it's like a really fast golf
00:37:51
cart because you don't have to worry
00:37:52
about gears. So, you just, you know, put
00:37:54
to the floor and and away you go kind of
00:37:56
thing and and amazing torque. But, um
00:37:58
they're very they didn't have great
00:37:59
suspension, so they were very um bouncy
00:38:03
and the way they'd move around and the
00:38:04
steering wasn't very quick, so it was
00:38:05
really hard to catch them when they did
00:38:07
get into a slide or get into a bump type
00:38:08
thing. And then the tracks we were
00:38:10
racing on weren't proper racetracks.
00:38:11
They were like off-road tracks back
00:38:13
then. The very first one I raced at was
00:38:15
in Greenland which was an amazing
00:38:17
spectacle. We were up in um Kaggleac and
00:38:20
it was, you know, underneath the world's
00:38:21
second biggest glacia. We were racing in
00:38:23
the in the glacia bed underneath it
00:38:25
which was just unreal. But it was rough
00:38:28
and um yeah, just the cars kicking
00:38:30
around and bouncing and stuff. It was um
00:38:32
yeah, it was sort of a baptism by fire.
00:38:33
I was like, "Holy hell, this is this is
00:38:35
hard."
00:38:37
>> Got it. Yeah. Um the sport's taken you
00:38:39
to some cool places, eh? very cool
00:38:41
places. Yeah. Amazing.
00:38:43
>> Incredible. Um, what kind of support and
00:38:46
resources does a team like McLaren
00:38:47
provide that maybe you hadn't
00:38:49
experienced before? It was a real eye
00:38:51
opener just getting into a a an absolute
00:38:55
um I mean there's no bigger team really
00:38:58
you know so you're at that level and the
00:39:00
my team manager the the first season was
00:39:02
just amazing and he had um been with
00:39:04
McLaren for a long time and you know he
00:39:06
says to me he says if if you can think
00:39:07
of anything that's going to give us an
00:39:09
advantage you know anything that's going
00:39:10
to you know help us be perform better or
00:39:13
whatever just just tell us you know and
00:39:15
coming from basically racing with budget
00:39:18
restraints with, you know, all those
00:39:20
things. You know, as an amateur, it's a
00:39:22
real mindset shift to be able to think,
00:39:24
well, if I can think about it, you know,
00:39:26
these guys can make things happen. And
00:39:28
just that pursuit of excellence is is
00:39:30
very cool to be um exposed to cuz you
00:39:33
can just see how how they're um how
00:39:36
they're able to perform at that level.
00:39:37
And and it was cool also because through
00:39:39
that time when I was with them was when
00:39:41
they were having an absolutely terrible
00:39:44
time. you know, they weren't performing,
00:39:45
they weren't doing well, but
00:39:47
on at that level, you could see the
00:39:49
steps they were putting in place to get
00:39:52
things right so that they were going to
00:39:53
perform, you know, and and I think
00:39:55
that's it's really cool, you know, when
00:39:56
you apply it to business or your own
00:39:57
life is just that, you know, it's
00:40:00
sometimes you're making really tough
00:40:01
decisions that aren't popular at all,
00:40:03
you know, especially from the keyboard
00:40:04
warriors out there saying, you know,
00:40:06
what are they doing? But they had their
00:40:08
plan. They knew what they needed to do,
00:40:10
what steps they needed to put in place
00:40:11
to achieve at that top level. Oh, that's
00:40:14
inspiring. Are are you familiar with the
00:40:16
term imposter syndrome?
00:40:17
>> Yes.
00:40:18
>> Yeah. Yeah. Did you Did you Did you
00:40:19
experience that that at all? Were you
00:40:21
like, "Oh my god, what am I what am I
00:40:23
doing?" Yeah.
00:40:24
>> How do you get over that and and accept
00:40:27
that you do belong to be there and
00:40:28
that's why you are there?
00:40:29
>> It's uh the very first event I I did
00:40:32
with McLaren. Um uh had a terrible
00:40:34
experience basically. Um my teammate had
00:40:37
got the car into first place in the
00:40:38
race. He came in, handed the car over to
00:40:40
me in the switch zone. I jump in. I put
00:40:43
the car into drive and it just doesn't
00:40:45
go. And I'm like, "What? What?" And all
00:40:47
the other cars disappear in front of me.
00:40:49
And I'm then eventually we start the
00:40:51
car. We get going. I go out and you
00:40:53
know, we finished the race in last
00:40:54
place. And I'm just like I I was blaming
00:40:56
myself. I went out there. I just blamed
00:40:57
myself the whole lap. Like what did I
00:40:59
do? You know, and it wasn't anything
00:41:02
that I'd done. Like it was something
00:41:03
that was wrong with the car. But I had
00:41:04
beaten myself up that whole lap, you
00:41:06
know, just thinking, "What the hell are
00:41:08
you doing, you freaking idiot?"
00:41:10
didn't sleep at all that weekend, you
00:41:12
know, like it was just it was just all
00:41:13
the pressure. Like it was freaking you
00:41:15
know I ended up doing this amazing move
00:41:18
just I call it a fluke but anyway it was
00:41:20
amazing move that that was really cool.
00:41:22
So I sort of we redeemed ourselves we
00:41:24
ended up winning race anyway wasn't a
00:41:25
great weekend but I was like I I can't
00:41:28
cope with this pressure like this is
00:41:29
just not not not working. So um I
00:41:33
actually reached out to to Courtney
00:41:35
Duncan. I said who do you have anyone
00:41:36
cuz we're local like with with some of
00:41:38
the place. So I said, "Do you know
00:41:38
anyone sports psych that you'd recommend
00:41:40
for helping me?" And she gave me um the
00:41:43
name of someone Nat and I met with her
00:41:46
and started working with her. And so I
00:41:48
I'm suppose I when I know things aren't
00:41:51
going well, I'll try and get advice or
00:41:53
help or support to get things back on
00:41:55
track. And so um yeah, started working
00:41:57
with a sports psych and and I've worked
00:41:59
with different sports psyches over my
00:42:00
career. It wasn't a new thing to me, but
00:42:02
it was just a different stage in my
00:42:03
career where I needed a different kind
00:42:05
of help. And um and that was that was
00:42:09
really it was it was a game changer
00:42:10
because it just it just took that
00:42:12
pressure off because I was trying to
00:42:14
control things I couldn't control, you
00:42:15
know, like there's so much you can't
00:42:16
control in in sport and everything. And
00:42:18
as long as I was looking after myself
00:42:21
and um and making sure I was in the best
00:42:23
possible position to do what I could do,
00:42:25
that's that's all you can do, you know,
00:42:27
when you're out there performing.
00:42:28
>> Yeah. Well, there's that saying, control
00:42:29
the controllable. So, it's so cool to
00:42:31
hear that you um Yeah. You and Courtney
00:42:33
Duncan have got a you know, a
00:42:35
relationship. She's been on the podcast
00:42:36
as well. She's so inspiring. She's
00:42:38
awesome.
00:42:38
>> Amazing. Amazing girl.
00:42:39
>> Incredible. Did you get to um tour the
00:42:42
um McLaren's Technology Center, the the
00:42:44
HQ? Oh, what's that like? I've seen I've
00:42:46
seen like drone shots online and I've
00:42:48
seen clips on YouTube. What's it like
00:42:49
being there?
00:42:50
>> It's I mean, there were so many pinch me
00:42:52
moments. It's just surreal because it's
00:42:54
it's as cool as it appears. Whenever you
00:42:57
see the pictures of it, it's like you're
00:42:58
walking into like something from James
00:42:59
Bond or something. I don't know. It's
00:43:01
just amazing. and the fact it's such an
00:43:03
old building like it's now you know it's
00:43:05
nearly 20 years old but it still looks
00:43:08
and feels modern. It was very futuristic
00:43:10
for its time. But um
00:43:12
>> yeah, I mean it was it was an amazing
00:43:14
experience just you know being with I
00:43:16
mean every every person that's there is
00:43:19
excellent in their field you know so
00:43:20
whether you're doing dealing with the
00:43:22
the PR machine you know what they're
00:43:24
dealing with and how they're um creating
00:43:26
the content and you know all the
00:43:27
videoing the you know everything is just
00:43:29
done to the highest level. So it was it
00:43:32
was an amazing experience.
00:43:33
>> Have you got any memorabilia at home or
00:43:35
>> lots of [laughter] memorabilia? No
00:43:37
McLaren, sadly.
00:43:40
>> No. Yeah, that's what I mean. You didn't
00:43:41
Yeah. [laughter]
00:43:42
didn't steal anything from the tour.
00:43:44
>> No, I remember one of the um interviews
00:43:46
I was doing when it had just been
00:43:47
announced and um and uh you know, I was
00:43:50
traveling on the on the train back home.
00:43:52
There was no no McLaren. We were within
00:43:53
the eco-friendly uh team of the uh of
00:43:55
the McLaren lineup. [laughter]
00:43:57
>> Now, um
00:44:00
when you type your name into Google, you
00:44:02
know how Google Google completes things.
00:44:04
Um the first thing it comes up with is
00:44:05
um Emma Gilmore crash. Uh
00:44:08
>> gosh, good to know.
00:44:10
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Do you are
00:44:12
you are you okay talking about that?
00:44:14
>> Yeah, sure.
00:44:14
>> Yeah. So um this was 2023 in in Italy.
00:44:18
Um how many times
00:44:20
>> this is kind of bookending it? This is
00:44:21
kind of the end of the McLaren journey.
00:44:23
[laughter]
00:44:23
>> Is this is this why it was the end of
00:44:25
the McLaren journey?
00:44:27
>> Yeah.
00:44:27
>> Oh, really? Oh, [laughter]
00:44:29
it's um it's sickening. like you you see
00:44:32
the you you you see the crash and it's
00:44:34
it's like it's a miracle that you're
00:44:35
sitting in front of me today, but I
00:44:36
suppose that says a lot about like the
00:44:38
safety features and the technology of
00:44:40
these things, but it it's it's awful to
00:44:42
watch. Yeah, it it's a horrific it's a
00:44:44
horrific crash and uh when it happened,
00:44:47
so it was in the uh buildup to the
00:44:50
Sardinian event, the round of the
00:44:52
extreme eeries and um and it was our
00:44:55
we'd been to this venue before, so we
00:44:57
knew the track quite well, but it was
00:44:59
the very first um practice lap that
00:45:01
we're out there with and we'd made some
00:45:03
changes to the car, which
00:45:07
I guess this was the first high-speed
00:45:08
corner I'd really gone into at this
00:45:09
higher speed. So, I was doing aboutund
00:45:12
and I think it was about 120 km an hour
00:45:14
as I go into this corner and I was
00:45:17
already looking up like I was about to
00:45:18
start my next lap like I was heading up
00:45:20
the track and and then I'm aware of the
00:45:22
car and I'm like, "Oh, the rear of the
00:45:25
car was still rotating on me." And at
00:45:27
that point of the corner, it shouldn't
00:45:29
have still been rotating on me like it
00:45:30
was and and I thought I was still in
00:45:33
control when really the crash was
00:45:35
already starting. Basically the the
00:45:37
suspension had just had bottomed out as
00:45:38
it as it hit the grip level and the car
00:45:40
just started to to roll. So um I I
00:45:44
blacked out in the crash and um and when
00:45:47
I came to I didn't have much car around
00:45:50
me. All the panels and everything had
00:45:52
had flown off, flown out. It was um you
00:45:54
know I was there and I I remember seeing
00:45:57
blood on my gloves and I was like where
00:45:59
on earth has that come from? So you're
00:46:00
busy sort of touching to find out what
00:46:02
what's happened and stuff. And um I
00:46:04
could hear my engineer on the radio
00:46:05
asking if I was okay and I was like yeah
00:46:07
that was really really big. So but I
00:46:10
didn't realize how big it was until like
00:46:12
I then had you know got you know medical
00:46:15
assistance straight away and taken off
00:46:17
to hospital and spent a night in the
00:46:18
hospital and I hadn't actually seen the
00:46:20
footage until the next day and then I
00:46:22
was like yeah wow that was that was
00:46:24
freaking massive. And um you know the
00:46:26
the poor old crew like the guys that you
00:46:28
know I work with mechanics and all of
00:46:30
that like it happened right in front of
00:46:31
them kind of in front of the pit box and
00:46:33
they were you know very very scared or
00:46:35
worried you know until they saw that I
00:46:36
was okay. So yeah it was it was awful.
00:46:40
>> It's hard to know how many times the car
00:46:41
rolls like six seven maybe eight.
00:46:44
>> Yeah it's it was the violence of it and
00:46:46
and the fact the ground was so hard so
00:46:47
when it was impacting it was yeah they
00:46:49
were big big hits.
00:46:50
>> Yeah. So, from what I can gather, yes,
00:46:53
so hospitalized, concussion, whiplash,
00:46:56
sore ribs, broken cracked ribs, uh
00:46:58
overextended knee, and some facial cuts.
00:47:01
>> Yeah. Yeah. I um I I I bent the throttle
00:47:04
pedal cuz like I said, I thought I was
00:47:06
still trying to save it when really I
00:47:08
was along for the ride. But um yeah,
00:47:09
because generally you you try and power
00:47:11
out of something when you're in a in a
00:47:13
bad spot. But and and in that instant
00:47:14
when I knew it was going bad, I was I
00:47:16
was assessing my options, but I didn't
00:47:19
have any options. I was already along
00:47:20
for the ride.
00:47:22
>> What does what does a a crash like that
00:47:23
do to a driver mentally and physically?
00:47:25
>> Uh for me, I think
00:47:29
it was um it was hard for me to
00:47:34
uh I
00:47:37
I didn't do anything wrong. That was a
00:47:39
really hard thing for me to to get, you
00:47:41
know,
00:47:41
>> sort of blame yourself.
00:47:42
>> Yeah. Or or to learn from it. It's like,
00:47:44
well, okay, well, I won't do that again
00:47:46
to to stop that from happening. But I I
00:47:48
didn't do anything, you know, like
00:47:49
basically the car just fell over at
00:47:50
speed and and so it's really hard to
00:47:53
then have confidence that you can go and
00:47:54
push that car again because it's like,
00:47:56
oh, it did that to me last time. I don't
00:47:58
really want to do that again. So, um and
00:48:01
and for me because the recovery was so
00:48:04
long, like the concussion really knocked
00:48:05
me around. Um it was my second
00:48:07
concussion. I'd had a bad crash early on
00:48:09
my career as well. So,
00:48:11
>> 2007.
00:48:12
>> Yeah. So, um, it was I guess I was also
00:48:15
nervous of what my effects were going to
00:48:17
be because I knew how bad that
00:48:18
concussion had been. So, it's never good
00:48:20
having multiple concussions. And
00:48:22
thankfully, they were long time apart.
00:48:24
But, um, it was a long time out of the
00:48:27
car and it was a long time for me to
00:48:29
reflect and think, do I want to what do
00:48:31
I want to keep doing? You know, is it is
00:48:32
it a sport I want to keep doing? What,
00:48:34
you know, where do I sit with it all?
00:48:35
And I and I I didn't really know how I
00:48:38
was going to feel until I sat back in a
00:48:39
car and and and, you know, and raced. M.
00:48:44
What did that um recovery from
00:48:45
concussion look like?
00:48:47
>> Interestingly, this concussion was quite
00:48:49
different to the first concussion in
00:48:50
that um it was the fatigue. I just would
00:48:52
get so tired and um and irritable. The
00:48:56
the noise, you know, if you're in a
00:48:57
noisy environment with coffee machines
00:48:59
and people talking and chairs scraping
00:49:01
and like the I just get, you know, it
00:49:04
was just it was just so intense and so
00:49:06
hard. Have you Have you had a head
00:49:07
injury?
00:49:08
>> No. No. Thankfully, I I had um a guy on
00:49:10
the podcast recently, Steve Divine, who
00:49:12
played for Oakland and the All Blacks
00:49:13
and suffered between 30 and 40
00:49:15
concussions in his life and um
00:49:18
>> he he he gets some injection now every
00:49:20
couple of years, which sort of has
00:49:22
controlled it, but um
00:49:24
>> it sounded brutal. He after he finished
00:49:26
playing he said like four out of every
00:49:28
seven days he'd be in bed with the
00:49:29
lights off with a bucket next to the
00:49:30
bed,
00:49:31
>> like unable to It's not It's not living,
00:49:33
eh?
00:49:33
>> No, it's um it's it's it gives you a
00:49:36
real insight. like I thankfully for me
00:49:39
it kept getting better. But the the
00:49:40
difficulty with it is you don't know
00:49:42
when you're getting tired. It's not like
00:49:44
it sort of gets sore. It just that you
00:49:45
you sort of pick up on the symptoms. And
00:49:48
the the encouraging thing was I guess
00:49:50
that in the you know 15 or so years
00:49:52
between my head injuries just the
00:49:54
treatment and the knowledge around head
00:49:56
injuries now is so much better than what
00:49:57
it was you know 15 years ago. And um and
00:50:00
I think that's really I mean that's
00:50:02
great cuz you know at least people
00:50:03
>> understand that you know you don't put
00:50:05
yourself back into risky situations and
00:50:07
um you know I was able I had access to
00:50:10
um a few cool things like a a virtual
00:50:11
reality headset that was really good for
00:50:13
tracking the eye movement and you know
00:50:15
making sure all those kind of things
00:50:16
were coming back on track as well.
00:50:19
>> Um what sort of toll did it take on your
00:50:20
mental health?
00:50:22
>> Yeah, it was tough. It's tough. It's
00:50:24
it's um it is it just gets you you just
00:50:28
get questioning everything really I
00:50:30
guess um you know for me it was
00:50:35
like with the McLaren the McLaren
00:50:37
contract came to an end and it kind of
00:50:40
it was kind of a relief in some ways
00:50:42
because I didn't have to make that
00:50:44
decision because I don't think I would
00:50:45
have I think my decision would have been
00:50:47
to not go and race those cars again
00:50:48
because of the danger of them you know
00:50:51
um when I I I I've never watched the
00:50:55
incar of the footage of the crash and I
00:50:57
don't think I want to see it.
00:50:58
>> Oh, does that exist?
00:50:59
>> It does exist. Yeah. And um knowing that
00:51:03
the car didn't keep me as safe as it
00:51:04
could have and it was actually probably
00:51:05
more luck than anything that I didn't
00:51:07
get worse injuries. Um and so for me,
00:51:11
you know, I didn't I wouldn't go and
00:51:12
roll the dice again. You know, I feel I
00:51:15
was very very lucky to to walk away how
00:51:17
I did. And that's still bad enough, you
00:51:18
know, like I still shouldn't be getting
00:51:20
injured like that. So I um feel like why
00:51:24
would I roll the dice again uni? Just I
00:51:26
just wouldn't. But I didn't know how I
00:51:28
would feel when I got in a rally car if
00:51:30
I'd still feel that same way. You know,
00:51:31
it was sort of the thing that probably
00:51:34
um uh created a lot of stress for me not
00:51:37
knowing what how I was going to feel and
00:51:39
how it was going to be. [snorts]
00:51:42
[sighs]
00:51:43
>> Yeah. How um how do you rebuild that
00:51:46
confidence? Are you gunshy to begin with
00:51:48
when you get behind the wheel again? Um,
00:51:52
it's really
00:51:54
when I when I finally got back in my
00:51:55
rally car, um, it it was such a relief
00:52:00
because I felt so good to be back in it.
00:52:03
>> Like a comfort zone.
00:52:03
>> Yeah. Like as in I felt happy to be back
00:52:06
in there like as in it wasn't like I was
00:52:07
feeling stressed or worried or, you
00:52:09
know, all those kind of things which was
00:52:11
a relief cuz I didn't know what I was
00:52:13
going to, you know, if it was going to
00:52:14
be flashbacks or what it was, you know,
00:52:16
what I was going to feel. But
00:52:18
interestingly, I do think that I've
00:52:20
probably become a bit more cautious/g
00:52:22
gunshy when I'm on my mountain bike or
00:52:24
doing those other kind of things where
00:52:26
which you can also knock your head or do
00:52:27
you know the head injury type thing. I
00:52:29
feel like that's probably where I'm more
00:52:31
>> just want to look after myself because
00:52:33
you know when I was recovering and
00:52:35
talking to the specialists they said you
00:52:36
know your head's probably your archilles
00:52:39
heal now. Like you know it's probably
00:52:40
the thing that you have to be the most
00:52:42
wary of with the fact that you've had
00:52:44
two decent concussions.
00:52:45
>> Yeah. Yeah, cuz you get more prone
00:52:47
>> the more you have.
00:52:49
>> So So when you first watch the the the
00:52:50
playback of that, are you in hospital?
00:52:52
You were still in hospital when you
00:52:53
watched the the playback of the crash or
00:52:55
are you
00:52:55
>> I think I' I think I'd got back to the
00:52:56
the circuit by then. Um
00:52:59
>> Yeah. So no, I hadn't I hadn't seen the
00:53:01
crash until I
00:53:02
>> What's it I watched that for the first
00:53:04
time a couple of days ago and I didn't
00:53:05
even know you at the time and I I felt I
00:53:06
felt worried and concerned for you even
00:53:08
though I knew the outcome. What's it
00:53:10
like when you when you're watching it
00:53:11
and and you know that it's it's you in
00:53:13
the video? Like do you do you burst into
00:53:16
tears watching it?
00:53:18
>> It's a real disconnect actually. Is it?
00:53:20
>> Yeah. Because I guess I was blacked out
00:53:22
so I don't remember it. Um
00:53:26
>> uh
00:53:27
Yeah. I don't know. It's it's when when
00:53:30
I watch because there's in car footage
00:53:32
of my first concussion where you see me
00:53:34
get knocked out and then become loose
00:53:35
like I I'm you know unconscious. That
00:53:37
that probably is more affecting. So, I
00:53:39
think if that's why I sort of made a
00:53:41
conscious decision to not watch the
00:53:42
in-car footage of it, because it's
00:53:43
probably a different feeling when you
00:53:45
actually see yourself getting hurt, you
00:53:46
know, versus for me, it's just the car.
00:53:48
It doesn't Yeah. It it feels more um
00:53:51
removed. And when you crash a car like
00:53:54
that, like is is the even though it's
00:53:56
not your fault, is the team annoyed with
00:53:58
you or are you like sorry or
00:54:00
>> Well, that instance they weren't worried
00:54:02
about me because I was being um well
00:54:04
sorry as in they they definitely weren't
00:54:06
I I it creates a lot more work for the
00:54:08
team, but um never once with McLaren did
00:54:10
they ever um they're always very I mean
00:54:15
because they're wanting you to go out
00:54:16
and race and be as fast as possible. So
00:54:18
it's it's on the cards, you know.
00:54:19
>> Yeah, it's a risk, isn't it?
00:54:20
>> It's a risk. It's just part of the
00:54:21
sport. So, um
00:54:23
>> yeah. No, it never it was never a thing.
00:54:25
Um which which I guess is the is a sign
00:54:28
of a professional team. You know, they
00:54:29
they they're backing you to do the job
00:54:30
and do it properly. So,
00:54:32
>> they know that it's not you're not
00:54:33
intending to go out and crash.
00:54:35
>> Yeah. Well, I suppose as a driver, you
00:54:36
need to have confidence that you can go
00:54:38
in there and give it a 100 every single
00:54:39
time. Correct.
00:54:40
>> Without fear of worst case scenario.
00:54:42
>> So, so 2007 that was in fun. Yes. Um
00:54:46
yeah, I've got um
00:54:49
>> Yeah,
00:54:50
>> that's so you went over a bank and the I
00:54:52
believe the seat broke free in the car.
00:54:55
>> Yeah. Well, that was how I ended up
00:54:56
getting injured. Um so yeah, it was a a
00:54:59
pace note error. Um I had was
00:55:02
overconfident in where I thought the
00:55:04
line was going to be over this crest and
00:55:06
and it was just youthful h you know that
00:55:09
was early in my career really. I'd only
00:55:10
been racing probably five or so years
00:55:12
then. So an experience and um just yeah
00:55:16
just got caught out. I um and I remember
00:55:19
it. I remember coming over this crest
00:55:20
and
00:55:22
guessing we're probably about fourth
00:55:23
year. was fast section of road and I was
00:55:26
expecting to see the road you know out
00:55:28
here and as we come over the crest you
00:55:31
know the road sort of in front of me off
00:55:32
to the right and as we come over the
00:55:34
crest I'm like road is there [laughter]
00:55:36
like this isn't good this is not good
00:55:39
and because of the nature of the road it
00:55:41
was it's like up on this it's a d it is
00:55:43
a you have sections of road that are
00:55:45
more dangerous than other sections you
00:55:46
know where you can't have a moment
00:55:48
because there's just no edge to the road
00:55:49
and that's this was such an instance and
00:55:51
so the camber wasn't good. There was no
00:55:53
edge to the road and basically it was
00:55:55
just down into a gully. And and I think
00:55:57
the thing that I I still remember was
00:55:59
was just how quickly it happened. You
00:56:01
know, like up to that point I I may have
00:56:03
had moments in a rally car where you got
00:56:05
wide or you know, things got a bit
00:56:07
messy, but this it was like bang, we're
00:56:09
just in it. Like there was no time for
00:56:10
me to be scared, but no time for me to
00:56:12
be out what's about to happen. It was
00:56:14
just like [ __ ] we're in it, you know,
00:56:15
and um I just shut my eyes in that time.
00:56:17
I didn't want to see what was coming.
00:56:19
But um
00:56:20
>> So you didn't black out for that one?
00:56:21
>> Yeah, I did.
00:56:22
>> Oh, you did? Yeah. So the um the car end
00:56:25
for endended down into the skully and in
00:56:28
one of the uh first impacts the seat um
00:56:31
because the impact was so large it it
00:56:33
broken the in its seat mounts and which
00:56:36
then meant the seat moved and I smashed
00:56:38
my helmet on the roll bar the roll cage
00:56:41
safety protection of the car which is
00:56:43
beside my behind my seat and that's what
00:56:44
knocked me out and then I'm sort of just
00:56:46
loose but thankfully nothing else got
00:56:48
injured. It was just the the head
00:56:49
injury. So um that it's an upsetting
00:56:53
watch that one because Glenn who I
00:56:55
mentioned earlier he'd become my
00:56:57
partner. So we were together um for
00:56:58
quite some time and he was co-driving me
00:57:00
with me in this accident and um in the
00:57:03
incar footage you can hear the panic in
00:57:05
his voice as he's calling calling my
00:57:07
name and that that's upsetting you know
00:57:09
hearing that. So um it was um yeah it
00:57:14
was and again that was you know I I
00:57:17
tried racing again 3 weeks later and
00:57:19
that was that was a big head injury. So
00:57:21
[laughter]
00:57:21
>> why why did you why did you rush back to
00:57:23
it?
00:57:24
>> Because I was a horse rider. You get
00:57:27
back on the horse you know [laughter]
00:57:28
>> that is the saying
00:57:30
>> get back on the horse. Um and uh and it
00:57:34
was amazing. I had so much amazing local
00:57:36
support. um guy went around all the
00:57:40
local businesses in Deneden, they raised
00:57:41
like over $40,000 towards rebuilding me.
00:57:43
I needed a new car cuz the car was
00:57:45
absolutely totaled. And um so I guess it
00:57:47
was just that whole, you know, and I'd
00:57:48
had a really good result at the start,
00:57:50
the first event of that championship.
00:57:51
So, everyone was wanting to get my
00:57:52
championship back on track with me not
00:57:54
appreciating how bad my head injury was.
00:57:58
>> I felt like you were almost getting a
00:58:00
little bit emotional then just
00:58:01
reflecting on it. Yeah, it was it was um
00:58:04
I guess it's part of comp
00:58:07
compartmentalizing, isn't it? Like Yes.
00:58:09
And you don't you don't want to think
00:58:11
about the the the stress that you put
00:58:13
your parents through all the people that
00:58:15
for you, you know, like I know how upset
00:58:17
my sister gets, you know, when like I
00:58:19
got injured in in Italy and stuff, the
00:58:21
most recent one. And
00:58:23
if you start thinking about that,
00:58:25
there's probably other rabbit holes
00:58:27
you'd go down about, you know, putting
00:58:29
your putting your And that was all the
00:58:30
things that I was thinking about in that
00:58:31
time out of the sport. It's like I'm
00:58:33
putting all my family and parents
00:58:35
through all this stress as well when I
00:58:37
go out and do a risky sport. Um, so
00:58:40
yeah, all those things weigh on your
00:58:41
mind when you're deciding what you're
00:58:42
doing.
00:58:43
>> Yeah. Is it worse for them than what it
00:58:45
is for you?
00:58:47
[sighs]
00:58:48
>> I don't know. I don't know. Probably.
00:58:50
probably because for me it's my choice,
00:58:53
isn't it? As in they they you know and
00:58:55
and I guess I'm I'm so grateful for my
00:58:58
parents that they never put their fears
00:59:00
or concerns onto us, you know, so that
00:59:03
we were worried so that we felt their
00:59:05
fear or their concern if that makes
00:59:06
sense. They always gave us that kind of
00:59:08
confidence. Like I think back to when we
00:59:11
were riding our ponies around the
00:59:12
neighborhood, you know, like there was
00:59:13
no cell phones back then, you know, we'd
00:59:15
have been out all day, you know, on
00:59:16
these horses, you know, doing all sorts
00:59:18
of crazy things. And like now
00:59:21
understanding how a parent frets about
00:59:23
their children, like just thinking they
00:59:24
must have always been worried about us,
00:59:26
you know, that we're okay, that but they
00:59:28
never ever put it onto us. And I think
00:59:29
that's a really empowering thing as a
00:59:31
>> as a parent to do to their kids because
00:59:33
it kind of gives kids confidence to, you
00:59:35
know, give things a go and and and try
00:59:37
things. Have have you had a conversation
00:59:39
with your parents like about about the
00:59:40
McLaren crash or
00:59:42
>> uh they I mean obviously they were very
00:59:44
very worried um about me. Um
00:59:47
>> but again they'veve they I've always
00:59:49
been I think you know I I had a a school
00:59:52
friend pass away that same year um from
00:59:55
cancer and
00:59:57
you know [sighs]
00:59:59
I like anything anything can happen you
01:00:02
know.
01:00:03
>> Yeah. Absolutely. you know, and you can
01:00:04
get sick tomorrow, you know, and and I
01:00:06
think it's so much about um you've got
01:00:10
to live your life, you know, and
01:00:11
>> calculated risks.
01:00:12
>> It's calculated risks. Absolutely. And
01:00:14
and you know, driving on the road every
01:00:16
day, like every day I drive down the
01:00:17
road and I'm looking at that white white
01:00:19
line and I'm looking at cars coming
01:00:20
towards me and making sure someone's not
01:00:22
texting. Like it's just something like I
01:00:24
feel more fear or more vulnerability
01:00:28
driving on the on the public roads, you
01:00:30
know, 100 km an hour with, you know,
01:00:33
it's it's so much trust that we do.
01:00:35
Yeah. We do it every day and we just
01:00:36
accept it as a as a risk of living.
01:00:38
>> But, you know, it's I've I'm very very
01:00:43
good at what I do. I've done it for a
01:00:44
long time and you know, things still
01:00:47
happen. Absolutely. But if you if you're
01:00:48
doing what you love and it's and it's
01:00:50
what you still get a kick out of, then
01:00:51
yeah. It's worth it.
01:00:53
>> It's funny you say that about driving on
01:00:54
on the road. I've had a bit to do with
01:00:56
Murf this year, Greg Murphy. We helped
01:00:58
him make his podcast. Um, and he's a a
01:01:00
ferocious ambassador for road safety.
01:01:03
And I suppose because he's aware just
01:01:05
how how dangerous vehicles are.
01:01:07
>> Yeah. Is this going to be life post
01:01:09
racing for you, do you think? Like an
01:01:11
ambassador for
01:01:12
>> I absolutely I'm very passionate like
01:01:13
like Murf about um about road safety
01:01:16
because I think, you know, as as uh it's
01:01:20
sort of one of the I wouldn't say it's a
01:01:22
positive, but we've experienced a road
01:01:24
crash in a safe way relatively, you
01:01:27
know, having rolled cages and helmets
01:01:28
and all that kind of stuff. And and the
01:01:30
forces that go through you, it's like
01:01:32
you just don't even want to contemplate
01:01:34
doing that in a road car. You know, it's
01:01:35
just it's frightening to to think um
01:01:37
about it. And that, you know, if someone
01:01:39
said to me on the start line of the
01:01:40
stage, it's like, okay, you're going to
01:01:43
start the stage, but if you keep to the
01:01:44
left, um someone's going to start at the
01:01:46
other end coming towards you and they'll
01:01:47
keep to the left. You guys will be fine.
01:01:49
You'd be going, no way. you're not going
01:01:51
to do it yet. You know, we do that every
01:01:53
day, you know, just trusting who we
01:01:55
share the road with that they're awake,
01:01:56
alert,
01:01:58
>> you know, um not falling asleep or
01:02:00
texting or something. So,
01:02:01
>> yeah.
01:02:01
>> Yeah. Cuz while I was um [ __ ] scared
01:02:04
yesterday in the car with you, I also
01:02:05
felt felt very safe. Like I had a very
01:02:07
tight
01:02:08
>> um seat belt on. Um it was Yeah. A very
01:02:12
tight seat. I had a helmet on.
01:02:14
>> Um
01:02:16
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's a very different
01:02:18
feeling to being to being in a car on
01:02:20
the road. Yes. Yeah. Very, very
01:02:21
different. And and I think and you're
01:02:23
very aware of the speed we were going,
01:02:25
you know, versus in our road cars, we're
01:02:26
so removed from the speed we're
01:02:28
traveling cuz they're so comfortable now
01:02:29
and they're so quiet and we can do
01:02:31
everything, can't we? Like we can talk
01:02:33
to people or eat, drink, do everything,
01:02:35
yet you're traveling at 100 km an hour.
01:02:36
Like that's freaking fast, you know? You
01:02:38
don't want to stop in a hurry.
01:02:40
[laughter]
01:02:41
>> Yeah. No, it's terrifying out there. Um
01:02:44
Yes. So 2016, that's when you became the
01:02:46
first woman to win a round of the New
01:02:47
Zealand Rally Championships. Um, how did
01:02:50
that moment feel when you crossed the
01:02:52
line?
01:02:52
>> It was relief. My god, it was relief.
01:02:55
>> Such relief.
01:02:56
>> Why?
01:02:56
>> Because I'd wanted to win a championship
01:02:58
round for like since I'd started, you
01:03:00
know, and for me that was still a long
01:03:03
time into my career, you know, like
01:03:05
let's say I start I think it was 2002 I
01:03:06
started. So, you know, it's it's, you
01:03:09
know, 14 years to to getting a win. And,
01:03:12
you know, I'd finished runner up in the
01:03:14
New Zealand Championship for so many
01:03:15
years. And and I guess I was, you know,
01:03:17
I was mindful of
01:03:19
of being a of just wanting to take it
01:03:22
off, you know, cuz I just so wanted it.
01:03:23
Yeah. To finally have it, you know, so
01:03:25
the monkey off my back cuz, you know,
01:03:27
it's it's always talked about, you know,
01:03:28
well, she hasn't won an an event yet,
01:03:30
you know, sort of thing. So,
01:03:31
>> did it feel like you had a point to
01:03:32
prove?
01:03:33
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Because I knew I knew I
01:03:35
could do it and it just, you know, I'd
01:03:37
had a lot of mechanical issues and all
01:03:38
the other frustrations as well. And I
01:03:40
mean we did it in the car that we had
01:03:42
built which was really rewarding as well
01:03:43
but I mean it it car um you know it was
01:03:46
it it was a frustrating journey to get
01:03:49
to that point but you know I I guess I'd
01:03:51
overcome
01:03:52
>> you know breaking up with with Glenn who
01:03:54
had been a really important part of my
01:03:56
early um racing career to then you know
01:03:58
to do it on my own. Um yeah it was it
01:04:00
was a a big achievement.
01:04:03
>> Breaking up with Glenn as like a a
01:04:05
partner or as a co-driver?
01:04:06
>> Both. Oh right.
01:04:08
>> So yeah.
01:04:08
>> Yeah. is it um yeah I'm I'm more
01:04:10
interested in in that sort of dynamic or
01:04:12
that relationship like when you split
01:04:13
with a with a co like how imperative is
01:04:15
the the co-driver in that dynamic.
01:04:17
>> Yeah they're they're so important like
01:04:20
as in you wouldn't you can't drive fast
01:04:21
without a good co-driver um and you have
01:04:23
to have trust and all of those amazing
01:04:25
things. So, it's a um you know, you have
01:04:29
many co-drivers who and driver pairings
01:04:32
that they've been together forever like
01:04:33
they are like an old married couple like
01:04:35
um uh Ben and Tony who just won their
01:04:38
you know fourth New Zealand rally
01:04:39
championship like they've been their
01:04:40
whole career is together you know that
01:04:42
that's all they've ever known is each
01:04:43
other and so that trust and uh knowing
01:04:46
how each other works it just it's it's
01:04:48
it's worth so much. Um
01:04:50
>> and there's no substitute for time e and
01:04:52
building that sort of trust. Yeah. And
01:04:54
that experience. So um but for the likes
01:04:57
of myself like I've um I've had
01:04:59
different co-drivers and it depends on
01:05:02
the on the circumstances but um you know
01:05:05
generally you know like Ben who I've
01:05:07
been working with and um you know we've
01:05:09
worked off and on at different times it
01:05:10
just sort of depends when someone's
01:05:12
available and not available and that
01:05:13
kind of thing. But if you can have that
01:05:14
consistency it's definitely a big
01:05:16
advantage.
01:05:17
>> Yeah. And uh 2015 that's when you won
01:05:19
the FIA Women in Motorsport Award. What
01:05:22
does that stand for? It was a um event
01:05:24
they put on in Qatar where they
01:05:26
basically they had put on an event where
01:05:29
they picked 10 nine nine uh top female
01:05:33
drivers from around the world and nine
01:05:34
top female co-drivers from around the
01:05:36
world and we got to learn about
01:05:38
crosscountry rallying which um sounds
01:05:41
simple but actually we we turned up in
01:05:43
these sandunes and I was very naive in
01:05:46
terms of how hard it is to drive in
01:05:47
sandunes. Um but we got got to learn
01:05:50
about that and got sort of training and
01:05:52
and lessons but it was a competition and
01:05:54
at the end of that week someone got
01:05:56
selected to then go and do a rally in
01:05:57
Qatar the following year and that was
01:06:00
the I I won it at the end of the week
01:06:02
but it was kind of funny because I had
01:06:04
done the the last stage of the event and
01:06:07
you kept getting paired with a different
01:06:08
co-driver each time for each of these
01:06:10
different trials and the last girl I got
01:06:13
paired with she we kept getting lost and
01:06:15
like and like we got so lost that like
01:06:17
we were off the screen of where they
01:06:18
were tracking us kind of thing like we
01:06:19
were so so far out and you know it's 30
01:06:22
plus degrees temperature outside the car
01:06:24
you're in all the gear like we were
01:06:26
discussing earlier so it's so hot so so
01:06:28
hot
01:06:29
>> and then um so we're stuck we're lost
01:06:32
and then we get buried in like when I
01:06:34
say buried like the belly deep up sand
01:06:36
up to the gunnels of this big Nissen
01:06:38
safari you know rally vehicle and these
01:06:42
guys appear out of nowhere they help us
01:06:44
start digging this car out and you're
01:06:46
like your your race suit is wet with
01:06:48
sweat. You're rolling around in the
01:06:50
sand. So, you feel like you're like been
01:06:51
basting yourself, you know, like um to
01:06:53
go get cooked um [laughter]
01:06:55
coated, crumbed, and um and we
01:06:59
eventually get unstuck and I follow um
01:07:02
the someone came out to rescue us. I
01:07:04
follow them back out like mother duck
01:07:05
with her duckling, you know, following
01:07:06
them along and stuff. And it it was
01:07:08
really fun actually because I got to
01:07:09
follow them and got some experience of
01:07:11
driving and that. And I got back and I
01:07:12
thought, man, that was so freaking hard.
01:07:15
You know what? if I don't win this,
01:07:17
that's fine. If I never ever go do this
01:07:19
again, that's okay because it was just
01:07:20
so hard. It's been a cool experience,
01:07:22
but you know, that's okay. It was it's
01:07:24
fine. And so anyway, that night they had
01:07:26
the prize giving and I get announced as
01:07:28
winning it. I'm like, man, I'm going
01:07:30
back out into the [laughter] desert
01:07:31
again.
01:07:34
But um yeah, that was it was really it
01:07:37
was such a cool experience cuz I mean we
01:07:39
never learned to drive in sandjunes in
01:07:41
New Zealand. Like when are you going to
01:07:41
go drive a sandune? It was it was
01:07:43
unreal. So cool. But um such a different
01:07:46
you know driving skill and and challenge
01:07:48
and but the stages like you were in the
01:07:50
car for like three hours you know which
01:07:52
is freaking long time to be focusing and
01:07:54
concentrating and stuff. So very cool.
01:07:57
>> My god you've done some cool [ __ ] Eh
01:07:59
>> very cool [ __ ] Very cool [ __ ]
01:08:00
>> What what have [laughter] been the most
01:08:02
memorable like holy [ __ ] moments you
01:08:04
reckon?
01:08:04
>> Uh I got to go and do uh rally cross in
01:08:07
America in 2014.
01:08:09
>> Was that when you an X Games thing in
01:08:11
Vegas?
01:08:11
>> Yeah. Yeah. got to go to the X game but
01:08:13
got a finalist finalist semi-finalist in
01:08:15
X Games. So yeah, getting to go to the X
01:08:17
Games. That's cool. And then like the
01:08:19
rally cross itself was just insane. Like
01:08:21
as in it felt like you were doing a
01:08:23
video game like you're in the air in
01:08:25
these massive jumps and you got all
01:08:26
these rally cars around you and it was
01:08:28
just Yeah, it was it was a super cool
01:08:30
experience as well. And those things
01:08:32
serious horsepower like 600, you know,
01:08:34
horsepower. So when the you know you're
01:08:36
on the start line and um you know cuz as
01:08:38
a rally driver you're on the start line
01:08:40
on your own. You have the start line to
01:08:41
yourself. So go to rally cross and
01:08:43
you're sharing the track with all these
01:08:44
other cars and get into start line and
01:08:46
get into the um pre uh stage start kind
01:08:50
of thing and so you put the car into its
01:08:52
launch mode and so the the car just
01:08:54
comes alive and like you hear the pop
01:08:55
bang bang bang bang you know it's it's
01:08:57
very cool feeling but you can hear all
01:08:58
the other cars doing their pop bang bang
01:09:00
bang bang and it's just yeah it's it was
01:09:02
yeah cool very very cool
01:09:04
>> looking back on everything you've
01:09:05
achieved um what does success mean to
01:09:07
you now has it changed over the years
01:09:10
>> it it actually changed quite early in my
01:09:12
career um when I very first started and
01:09:15
I guess it's a a naivity thing where you
01:09:17
think your path to success is going to
01:09:20
be just this nice straight line and this
01:09:21
is where you're going this is what
01:09:22
you're going to achieve and you know
01:09:24
when I set out I wanted to get to the
01:09:26
world rally championship I wanted to you
01:09:28
know compete on the world stage and that
01:09:29
was what I wanted to do um and then you
01:09:33
start to realize that that's not always
01:09:34
the easiest thing to achieve. there's a
01:09:35
lot of things that come uh that you know
01:09:38
affect that that goal line but um and I
01:09:42
started to recognize and I was like well
01:09:44
what what is success you know am I going
01:09:46
to have achieved if I don't get to the
01:09:48
world championship you know what what
01:09:49
you know what what's success and I
01:09:53
started to see it a bit more like the
01:09:54
journey in terms of um I get to go to
01:09:57
these cool places I get to even here in
01:10:00
New Zealand when we're rallying you know
01:10:01
we're out in these beautiful parts back
01:10:03
parts of New Zealand seeing parts of the
01:10:04
country you'd never normally get to see
01:10:07
um doing a sport that I absolutely love.
01:10:09
You know, get to meet the coolest people
01:10:11
um in all these different places. And so
01:10:13
I started to see it more as just how
01:10:15
lucky I am to be doing what I'm doing.
01:10:18
And
01:10:19
>> and I think that mindset really really
01:10:21
helped when it was tough, you know, when
01:10:23
I was having all the DNFS and the cars
01:10:26
breaking down and, you know, not getting
01:10:27
the results because I wasn't focused on
01:10:30
the results. I was more focused on the
01:10:32
how lucky am I to to be doing this, you
01:10:35
know, and um and yeah, and I so I guess
01:10:39
that's that that's why I do it because I
01:10:42
I love what I do. Like I love the
01:10:44
driving the car. That's that's the the
01:10:46
thing I get the kick out of. Um but but
01:10:50
it's the Yeah, it's the people. It's the
01:10:53
journey. It's like coming in here,
01:10:54
getting to chat to you, you know, like
01:10:56
there's so many cool things I've got to
01:10:57
do simply by doing by having a passion
01:11:00
and and following that dream.
01:11:01
>> What boxes are there still to tick? Is
01:11:04
there anything?
01:11:05
>> Oh, it depends. I mean, it it will
01:11:08
always it will always great me if I
01:11:10
don't win, you know, like the New
01:11:12
Zealand Championship and, you know,
01:11:13
there's many things that, you know, I
01:11:15
would love to have done. Um,
01:11:17
but there's so many cool things that
01:11:20
I've got to have done that would never
01:11:21
have been on a checklist like the
01:11:24
McLaren thing. Yeah. [laughter]
01:11:25
You just couldn't even dream this.
01:11:27
>> You couldn't even dream it. So, I guess,
01:11:30
you know, and that's the thing about
01:11:31
life, isn't it? Like, you never know
01:11:33
what what's coming next or whatever. So
01:11:35
um yeah I no I don't think there is the
01:11:39
boxes to tick as such you know and I
01:11:41
guess as you get older maybe you're a
01:11:43
bit more
01:11:45
um you know like when early in my career
01:11:47
I thought the the Perry Daka like I'd
01:11:49
love to have done the DAR rally and now
01:11:52
you know to go and do that event a the
01:11:54
cost you know like it's just so so
01:11:56
expensive to go and do um like we're
01:11:59
talking probably half a million dollars
01:12:00
to go and do one event and that's not
01:12:03
even in a nice comfortable car this will
01:12:04
be in [laughter] a little bouncy thing
01:12:06
where you're jiggling around the desert
01:12:08
for hours on end and um you know and
01:12:11
you're because it's such a popular event
01:12:12
now you're in the dust and and I just I
01:12:16
kind of think no that's not necessarily
01:12:17
what I want to do now you know like I
01:12:19
and it part of it I find that a little
01:12:21
bit sad that I don't have the that
01:12:24
through my experience I don't have that
01:12:26
um I don't know if it's naivity or
01:12:27
whatever but I'm I'm just a bit more
01:12:29
sensible with what I want to do
01:12:30
>> the the [laughter] drive or the hunger
01:12:32
or maybe your priorities change or
01:12:34
possibly priorities.
01:12:35
>> When when will you retire? Have you have
01:12:37
you thought about that?
01:12:38
>> Oh, absolutely.
01:12:38
>> There's no reason you could you could
01:12:40
keep going as long as what you wanted,
01:12:41
right?
01:12:41
>> I think and I think that was the
01:12:43
question when I had the crash. I was
01:12:44
like, well, is this the time that you
01:12:45
retire? Because, you know, you know, and
01:12:48
and I guess there's that it's just sort
01:12:50
of that age expectation, you know. I
01:12:52
suppose people are thinking, well, why
01:12:53
why do you keep doing it, you know, and
01:12:55
and and I question it, you know, I'm
01:12:56
like, why do why what's my why, you
01:12:58
know, why why am I still doing it? Uh,
01:13:01
and I think, you know, the the last
01:13:04
year, for example, I guess the the
01:13:05
scales have swung heavily in me having
01:13:07
to focus on work rather than on my
01:13:09
racing. And, um, but when I get to go
01:13:12
and do my racing, it it's just such a
01:13:14
release for me. You know, it's still
01:13:15
what I love. You know, it's the bit that
01:13:17
makes me feel alive and and I still
01:13:19
really get a a kick out of it. So, I
01:13:21
think as long as I'm getting that kick
01:13:23
out of it and I and I enjoy it and um
01:13:26
and it's fun and I'm I'm healthy and can
01:13:28
do all it, I I think I'll just I'll keep
01:13:30
doing it. You know, I don't know what it
01:13:31
will look like. I don't know what events
01:13:33
I'll be doing, but I think as long as I
01:13:35
can do it and I'm still enjoying it and
01:13:38
then I'll keep doing it.
01:13:39
>> Yes, we we've touched upon this a couple
01:13:41
of times, but not in any sort of great
01:13:43
depth, but um bubbling along alongside
01:13:45
this incredible railing career is your
01:13:47
your business, your Suzuki dealership.
01:13:49
Um, Gilmore Motors.
01:13:51
>> Um,
01:13:52
>> so is it all the sponsors that you've
01:13:54
got on your shirt that sort of pay for
01:13:56
the rallying and then the Gilmore Motors
01:13:58
that pay for your like living expenses
01:14:00
and your your I suppose your civilian
01:14:02
life [laughter] being an adult? Yeah. Is
01:14:05
that sort of how it works? How do how do
01:14:07
you run a business and do all this other
01:14:08
stuff?
01:14:09
>> Uh, yeah. It it's been a juggle at
01:14:11
times. Uh, it's having good people,
01:14:13
really good people around me. Um, and
01:14:15
uh, you know, when I got the opportunity
01:14:18
to um, to race in America, I'd just
01:14:21
broken up with Glenn. So, we were just
01:14:23
working out how I was going to buy him
01:14:24
out of the business, buy him out of the
01:14:26
rally company, you know, by, you know,
01:14:28
doing the split and and that was
01:14:30
probably one of the toughest times where
01:14:32
I thought, man, this is just too hard. I
01:14:33
don't know if I can do this all on my
01:14:35
own. I was a lot younger then and you
01:14:37
I'd never done it all on my own, you
01:14:38
know, to be facing that. Um and you know
01:14:42
I got some really good people around me.
01:14:45
Um you know and when I say good people
01:14:47
like good people in the business so that
01:14:48
you know I I knew the business was in
01:14:50
good hands when I kept doing the eight
01:14:52
trips to America very quickly each each
01:14:55
um each time and and I've been very
01:14:57
fortunate like Suzuki is an amazing
01:14:59
company as well. So the relationship
01:15:01
with them started from rallying. Um I
01:15:04
approached them as a very young uh I was
01:15:07
in my early 20ies said do you want you
01:15:09
want to go do a rally with me kind of
01:15:10
thing and they were like um and they
01:15:12
would have never have heard of me like
01:15:13
it was really early and they were like
01:15:15
oh yeah and they they listened to my
01:15:17
proposal and thought it was a pretty
01:15:19
good one. So they they let us build a a
01:15:21
rally um Suzuki Ignis and we went away
01:15:24
and did the target rally and we had a
01:15:26
really good result and stuff and um and
01:15:28
so from that point on I had a
01:15:30
relationship with Suzuki and then we
01:15:31
ended up being able to get the Suzuki
01:15:33
franchise in Deneden and you know I I
01:15:36
look back on it and I think again I've
01:15:39
been very fortunate people have believed
01:15:40
in me you know giving a young woman an
01:15:43
opportunity to to take on a franchise
01:15:45
where didn't have any experience of
01:15:47
running a car dealership at that time
01:15:48
and um and giving me that shot. I think
01:15:50
that was that was very empowering on
01:15:52
their side, you know, and so they've
01:15:54
been a very good company to be alongside
01:15:57
um my learning journey of being a
01:15:59
business owner
01:16:00
>> and you know, I was really proud of
01:16:01
myself when I got to, you know, 3 years
01:16:03
after the split and you know, I'd
01:16:06
finished paying him out and the business
01:16:08
was all mine and stuff and yet I was
01:16:09
still doing the racing as well. So yeah,
01:16:12
it hasn't been easy. [laughter]
01:16:15
>> Yeah, it's a it's a lot, eh? Yeah,
01:16:17
>> it really is a lot. Um, yeah. Do you
01:16:20
look look back on everything you've done
01:16:21
with like a a huge amount of pride?
01:16:23
>> I do. Yeah. Yeah. I think um I think I'm
01:16:28
proud of my younger self. I'm proud of
01:16:30
the times I've stuck in there when
01:16:31
there's times where I've like not wanted
01:16:33
to, you know. I think um and and yeah, I
01:16:38
am proud. I mean, there's things I would
01:16:39
have done differently. There's things
01:16:40
that I think, you know, I could have
01:16:41
handled better and all of those, you
01:16:42
know, different scenarios, but you do
01:16:45
>> personal, professional, both.
01:16:46
>> Both. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but I guess
01:16:48
that's that's reflection, isn't it? And
01:16:50
you hope to learn from your from your
01:16:53
life as you go.
01:16:54
>> Yeah. Failure is a stepping stone to
01:16:56
success, as they say.
01:16:57
>> Yeah. Exactly. So, um, yeah, but I think
01:17:01
in in some ways the business side of it,
01:17:04
um,
01:17:06
yeah, I think I'm proud of of of that
01:17:09
and and that, um, you know, like all all
01:17:12
small business owners know, like it's
01:17:14
not easy. It's really not easy and and
01:17:16
it can be quite lonely at times when
01:17:17
you're running a business. So, um, yeah,
01:17:19
to to have been able to stick at it and
01:17:21
and to and to have a good business is is
01:17:23
Yeah, I'm proud of it.
01:17:24
>> Yeah. Um, you don't have any kids, eh?
01:17:27
>> No. No. Was it was that a that a choice
01:17:29
or you just too busy
01:17:31
>> too busy running a business and being
01:17:33
this bad?
01:17:33
>> A little bit like that. It's it's
01:17:35
something that was never really um you
01:17:39
know like when when I was a little girl
01:17:40
I was dreaming of the Olympics not of
01:17:42
you know babies and you know what I mean
01:17:44
like it was I was playing with the
01:17:45
Barbie dolls and her horse you know it
01:17:46
was like that was where [laughter]
01:17:48
it was a focus. I blame my parents
01:17:50
actually. I think back to a Christmas um
01:17:53
Christmas gift I got and it was Barbie
01:17:55
and it was Barbie 9 to5 and on one side
01:17:59
was [laughter] her flat and the other
01:18:00
side was her office and I was like gosh
01:18:02
you know and her outfit changed side to
01:18:04
side so um yeah but no I've always been
01:18:06
driven towards doing things I guess and
01:18:08
so um and I guess I never really had
01:18:11
either a partner either where it sort of
01:18:12
became a conversation and so and then
01:18:14
you get to an age where you're like oh
01:18:15
gosh I better probably decide make a
01:18:18
conscious decision if it's something I
01:18:19
want to make happen or or not, but um
01:18:22
yeah, it's just yeah,
01:18:24
>> just hasn't worked out that way.
01:18:25
>> It just hasn't worked out that way.
01:18:26
>> Do do you at this stage of life do you
01:18:28
have any regrets about that
01:18:29
[clears throat] or not particularly?
01:18:31
>> Not at the moment. No. No. No. It makes
01:18:33
me sad like that. I think um you know,
01:18:35
discussing this with a friend just
01:18:36
yesterday. You know, I think it's always
01:18:39
I I think anyone who who doesn't I'm
01:18:42
sure it's the conversation you all have
01:18:43
in your own head. You know, when am I
01:18:44
going to regret it? Am I going to regret
01:18:46
it? you know, I feel sad that I'm not
01:18:47
giving my um you know, my parents some
01:18:50
amazing grandkids, you know, those kind
01:18:52
of things, the guilt and stuff, but
01:18:54
>> I mean, it's the most amazing and I and
01:18:56
I see my friends being amazing parents,
01:18:58
you know, and I and I just think that's
01:18:59
so cool. But
01:19:01
>> it's it's a big commitment, you know,
01:19:02
and you have to be 100% into it if
01:19:04
that's what you want to do. And um for
01:19:06
me, it it definitely wasn't something I
01:19:07
wanted to do on my own. And and it was
01:19:09
never a conversation, I guess, with with
01:19:12
any partners or anything that came up.
01:19:14
And I dare say like that McLaren crash
01:19:16
that we talked about like if if you're a
01:19:18
mom that would be the end of it, right?
01:19:20
You'd be there's no way you'd you put
01:19:22
yourself.
01:19:23
>> It's a different different thing, isn't
01:19:24
it? Yeah. You've got other people
01:19:25
dependent on you.
01:19:26
>> Yeah. Um
01:19:30
what's something that people might be
01:19:31
surprised to learn about you away from
01:19:32
racing?
01:19:34
>> Uh I don't know. [clears throat]
01:19:36
Um
01:19:36
>> it's quite because there's there's a lot
01:19:38
about you online, but not not a lot
01:19:39
about um you know, Emma Gilmore. the the
01:19:43
that's not the rally driver or the
01:19:44
businesswoman.
01:19:46
>> Yeah, I like I I love my friends and
01:19:48
I've got an amazing circle of friends
01:19:49
and they they're hugely supportive and
01:19:51
stuff. So, I guess I kind of like um you
01:19:55
know, my friends are really important to
01:19:56
me and um and yeah, I I think um
01:20:04
yeah, what what would something I don't
01:20:05
know?
01:20:06
>> I don't know. I'm good at baking.
01:20:09
[laughter]
01:20:10
Hey, when do you have time to bake?
01:20:12
>> I love baking. I like art. You know,
01:20:14
there's lots of things I really enjoy
01:20:16
doing, but it's also hard when you're
01:20:17
running a business and doing all the
01:20:18
other things. It's finding the time to
01:20:20
do the the extra things, isn't it?
01:20:22
>> Yeah.
01:20:22
>> Um, was there ever a moment where you
01:20:24
thought about walking away?
01:20:25
>> Oh, yeah. [laughter]
01:20:26
>> Really? Oh, like like weekly, monthly?
01:20:29
>> No. Oh, there's probably there's
01:20:31
probably been uh a few times like that.
01:20:34
that the time when I was breaking up
01:20:36
with Glenn was probably a a real life
01:20:39
moment. It's like, can I actually do
01:20:40
this on my own? Um, and then um in 19 I
01:20:45
had two engines blow up before the very
01:20:48
first event of the season. And you know,
01:20:50
you've already sent out the press
01:20:51
releases saying, "This season's going to
01:20:53
be amazing. We're going to have a great
01:20:54
result." And then you're like, "Oh, this
01:20:57
is just terrible." you know, and then
01:21:00
had um relationship end and just I just
01:21:04
went into a really bad space and I was
01:21:06
just like, what on earth? And I I ended
01:21:08
up I had my friends say to me, I said,
01:21:10
oh, maybe maybe therapy might be a good
01:21:12
thing. I'm like, therapy, what am I
01:21:14
going to talk about? Well, feels like I
01:21:17
had a lot to talk about. [laughter]
01:21:20
>> Really? Yeah, cuz you you seem quite um
01:21:22
you built up some quite tough stuff. Was
01:21:24
that um was that a big step for you to
01:21:26
talk to a therapist? Well, I didn't
01:21:28
realize it was going to be such a big
01:21:29
step. [laughter]
01:21:31
>> You sort of go in and you start talking
01:21:33
and they rip off that layer and then you
01:21:35
find another layer to rip off and Yeah,
01:21:38
it was
01:21:38
>> like a bit of cotton in a t-shirt. E
01:21:40
just [laughter]
01:21:42
>> um it was amazing. It was amazing going
01:21:45
So, I mean, what age was I then? I was
01:21:46
39. Um [clears throat] and just all
01:21:49
those things that you've just all those,
01:21:50
you know, narratives in your head that
01:21:52
you've been playing forever, that's
01:21:53
normal. And in not till someone says to
01:21:55
you, well maybe you know and they sort
01:21:57
of just make you question things and
01:21:59
>> you know it was it was the best thing I
01:22:00
ever did. Absolutely amazing. And I I
01:22:03
can't recommend therapy enough if if
01:22:04
you're in a position to be able to you
01:22:06
know to be able to do that. It's um it's
01:22:08
just it's life-changing.
01:22:10
>> Yeah. How many sessions did you go?
01:22:11
>> A lot. [laughter]
01:22:13
>> Is it on ongoing or you just not got
01:22:16
>> um just go when you need to? The time it
01:22:18
was intense like as in and the thing
01:22:21
that it was always surprising with it
01:22:22
was that the you'd be chatting it would
01:22:24
be like and the hour would go just like
01:22:26
that and you'd be like wow where did the
01:22:27
time go and then as I start to got
01:22:29
started to get better you know and
01:22:30
things were getting stronger you know
01:22:33
the time would slow down and you know
01:22:34
you sort of run out of things to talk
01:22:35
about about you know 30 minutes in and
01:22:37
you know and then eventually I was
01:22:38
getting oh maybe we can do it every two
01:22:40
weeks or every four weeks or you know
01:22:42
and then I like I still she still
01:22:44
supports me if I have you know things
01:22:46
happen But I definitely, you know, it
01:22:48
might be once a year or once every two
01:22:50
years. It's not it's, you know, but but
01:22:52
amazing. Amazing. Just
01:22:55
>> just Yeah, cuz Yeah, you have your own
01:22:57
narrative, don't you? You don't know
01:22:58
what's normal, what's not normal until
01:23:00
you help.
01:23:01
>> A lot of them are just stories that
01:23:02
you're telling yourself as well that are
01:23:03
not based on on anything at all. Yeah. I
01:23:06
um I was I was really reluctant to go
01:23:08
cuz I was like, where do you start?
01:23:11
>> Um but then you you sit down, you
01:23:12
realize that they're the professional
01:23:13
and they sort of guide the conversation
01:23:15
and it's it's great. You get to talk
01:23:16
about yourself for an hour. Like a
01:23:18
personal trainer for for the brain.
01:23:19
>> Absolutely.
01:23:20
>> Um
01:23:21
>> Yeah.
01:23:21
>> Yeah. Have you Yeah. Where's your
01:23:24
resilience from? Are you sort of do you
01:23:25
think it's you're born with it or have
01:23:26
you built it?
01:23:29
>> Ah, good [clears throat] question. Um
01:23:33
I think I think you do build it
01:23:34
definitely. I do feel it's something
01:23:36
that um
01:23:39
uh [sighs]
01:23:40
yeah I like I think I think we're
01:23:41
probably from a family of quite tough
01:23:43
stuff where you just you just get on
01:23:44
with stuff type thing. Um
01:23:47
>> and I guess it's just that I don't know
01:23:50
I just I've always had that thing like
01:23:51
no no one's going to fix something. It's
01:23:53
me for me to fix you know like you know
01:23:54
no one's going to come and rescue me.
01:23:56
It's got to be me to just sort out
01:23:58
whatever predicament you're in. And
01:24:00
that's why I'm always um very uh I see
01:24:03
my friendships and um you know the
01:24:06
people that are in my circle is so
01:24:08
important to that support. You know like
01:24:10
when you need advice or you need help
01:24:11
that you can call on those people to to
01:24:14
um to to help you. You know, I think
01:24:16
about when I took on the dealership on
01:24:17
my own
01:24:18
>> buying out my exartner, you know, like
01:24:20
an amazing friend
01:24:22
>> with his own car dealerships and, you
01:24:23
know, and he believed in me and he would
01:24:25
give me those, you know, pick me up
01:24:27
when, you know, you're in tears
01:24:28
thinking, "What on earth am [laughter] I
01:24:29
doing? I'm so out of my depth, you
01:24:31
know." So, those people are just so
01:24:33
important um so important to to helping
01:24:36
you be strong, I guess, or help Yeah.
01:24:39
picking you up in those moments when
01:24:40
you're not strong.
01:24:41
>> Yeah.
01:24:41
>> Yeah. There is that saying people say,
01:24:43
blood, sweat, and tears, whether it's
01:24:44
business or sport. And uh I mean there's
01:24:46
been sweat definitely. There's been
01:24:48
blood [laughter] definitely. Yeah. Many
01:24:50
tears.
01:24:51
>> Yeah. Yeah.
01:24:51
>> Yeah. Absolutely. Um
01:24:53
>> yeah, tears of frustration. I think a
01:24:55
lot of the time I think you just get
01:24:58
frustrated with um
01:25:00
>> I'm thinking business. I'm thinking
01:25:02
sport. Yeah. Just I mean it's just it's
01:25:04
just hard, you know. Sometimes it's just
01:25:06
hard. And I think
01:25:07
>> you know that's that's the lovely thing
01:25:08
when you listen to I mean you're great
01:25:10
with your all the guests you interview.
01:25:11
You know it's everyone's has their own
01:25:13
story, don't they? you know,
01:25:15
>> everyone's dealing with [ __ ]
01:25:16
>> Yeah. [laughter] Everyone
01:25:17
>> even people that don't look like it.
01:25:18
>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And that's why
01:25:20
sort of you just need that sort of bit
01:25:21
of kindness or compassion to people cuz
01:25:23
everyone's dealing with it.
01:25:24
>> Yeah. And and I I love what you said
01:25:26
before about no one's no one's doing it
01:25:27
for like no one's going to do anything
01:25:29
for you. Anything that you want to
01:25:31
happen, you have to do it yourself.
01:25:32
>> Yeah.
01:25:33
>> No one's coming for you.
01:25:34
>> No.
01:25:35
>> What do you think your best and worst
01:25:36
habits are? [laughter]
01:25:38
>> Well, maybe I should be asking asking
01:25:40
some of your staff or team. Um,
01:25:44
I think my best habits is that uh I have
01:25:48
I have high standards,
01:25:49
>> but that could also be a worst habit.
01:25:50
[laughter]
01:25:51
>> It's quite funny because I had Sir Steve
01:25:52
Henson on the podcast and he he's got a
01:25:54
theory and it's something I've thought
01:25:55
about a lot since I had him on. He said
01:25:57
generally someone's best habit is also
01:25:58
their worst. The example he gave is is
01:26:00
Richie McCoy just being ruthlessly
01:26:02
competitive. It's his best habit, but
01:26:04
also his worst habit in that he was
01:26:05
trying to control the whole team and not
01:26:07
letting everyone else do their jobs.
01:26:08
>> Yeah.
01:26:09
>> Yeah.
01:26:09
>> So, you're high standards.
01:26:11
>> Yeah. But I don't think they are.
01:26:13
[laughter]
01:26:15
>> So they're probably the
01:26:16
>> W. Yeah. Yeah.
01:26:18
>> Um, what about fears? What are you most
01:26:19
afraid of? [laughter]
01:26:21
>> Um,
01:26:24
uh, gosh,
01:26:28
I think I mean, you can go with the the
01:26:30
standard ones like heights and those
01:26:31
kind of things, but um,
01:26:36
>> I don't think I have any I mean just
01:26:38
illness probably. Yeah.
01:26:40
>> Yeah. I really I really value having a
01:26:41
healthy body,
01:26:42
>> being able to do what I want to do as I
01:26:44
want to do it, you know, and I think
01:26:45
that's probably my biggest fear is that
01:26:47
being taken away from me.
01:26:48
>> Yeah.
01:26:49
>> Regrets, [sighs]
01:26:54
>> none that come to mind,
01:26:55
>> you know. That's great.
01:26:56
>> Yeah. I think like I said earlier,
01:26:59
there's always things I would have done
01:27:00
differently, you know, like you know,
01:27:02
especially especially like in business
01:27:05
or or with the sport, you know, like um
01:27:08
handling people or you know,
01:27:10
relationships and you you think back,
01:27:11
[ __ ] I could have handled that
01:27:12
differently. I could have, you know, how
01:27:14
you do things, but you try and you know,
01:27:16
you there's there's no playbook, is
01:27:18
there? You're just doing it as best you
01:27:19
can at the time.
01:27:20
>> Are are you good with um like conflict
01:27:22
and difficult situations?
01:27:24
>> I
01:27:24
>> running a running a business. Yeah. And
01:27:26
a and a team. Yeah, you need to have
01:27:27
these often, I guess.
01:27:29
>> Um, I don't like it, but I'm not scared
01:27:31
to make a tough decision. Yeah, I
01:27:33
because I'd rather make a tough decision
01:27:35
now and deal with it then I I hate
01:27:37
things playing in the background. Like,
01:27:39
I hate that
01:27:40
>> lowline level of anxiety that I need to
01:27:43
deal with that. Like, that's
01:27:44
>> it's simmering away.
01:27:45
>> Yeah, it's [laughter] away. Like, let's
01:27:46
just deal with it now.
01:27:47
>> It's not going to go away. Yeah. Um,
01:27:49
what about future goals? Where where do
01:27:51
you see what are you now? 46.
01:27:52
>> Yes.
01:27:53
>> Yeah. Where do you see yourself at 50,
01:27:55
55, 60?
01:27:57
Um, just
01:27:59
>> are you much of a planner? You
01:28:00
>> No,
01:28:01
>> no,
01:28:01
>> no. Which can probably be a frustrating
01:28:04
thing at times because I guess I like
01:28:06
the I like being able to if an
01:28:09
opportunity comes up to go, "Yeah, let's
01:28:10
go do that." You know, um, I'm starting
01:28:12
to write a book, so want to write a
01:28:14
book. I'm getting into my public
01:28:15
speaking, which I really enjoy. I think
01:28:17
the fact that I haven't got kids, I'm
01:28:20
probably mindful of wanting to have some
01:28:21
sort of legacy in terms of I want to
01:28:24
help people or inspire people or or do
01:28:26
that kind of thing, I guess. So, I guess
01:28:28
that's probably in my next 5 or 10 year
01:28:30
plan of of that. Um, and then just just
01:28:33
keep surviving in business, [laughter]
01:28:36
>> still be here.
01:28:37
>> Yeah. What's what's been the hardest the
01:28:39
was was co difficult for car dealerships
01:28:41
or
01:28:41
>> uh we actually had an amazing time after
01:28:44
co like a lot of businesses in New
01:28:45
Zealand you know with a
01:28:47
>> random like spar pool businesses.
01:28:48
>> Yeah. So no we had a really good time
01:28:51
but then
01:28:52
>> after that uh had quite a lot of uh
01:28:54
interruptions in the in the industry
01:28:56
with the clean car standards and things
01:28:58
getting interrupted. So it's been a
01:29:00
pretty tough couple of years since since
01:29:01
then. Like it's it's definitely not an
01:29:03
easy industry at the moment but again I
01:29:04
think a lot of businesses are in the
01:29:05
same same part at the moment. So yeah,
01:29:08
so it's um I I feel like things are
01:29:10
starting to to pick up. So hopefully,
01:29:12
you know, confidence keeps keeps growing
01:29:14
and
01:29:14
>> keeps getting better.
01:29:15
>> And the this book you're writing um how
01:29:18
far into it are you? How many like
01:29:19
>> starting starting
01:29:20
>> starting? [laughter]
01:29:21
But I don't want it to be I'm not it it
01:29:24
like I said, it's I want to share
01:29:25
lessons. I I I liken it to, you know, we
01:29:28
have the pace notes for our our stages
01:29:30
of what's coming up and we don't get
01:29:32
that for life. You know, we're all just
01:29:33
sort of winging it as we go. But if I
01:29:35
can share what I've learned and things
01:29:37
that might help others, then that would
01:29:38
be a cool thing to do.
01:29:40
>> Awesome. I'd buy it.
01:29:41
>> Cool.
01:29:41
>> I'd read it.
01:29:42
>> Yeah. [laughter]
01:29:43
You gonna write it yourself or like get
01:29:45
a ghost ride?
01:29:46
>> I'll do it with a ghost writer.
01:29:47
>> Yeah. Yeah.
01:29:48
>> Yeah. [snorts]
01:29:48
>> Um, what three words would family or
01:29:51
friends use to describe you? [laughter]
01:29:53
>> Uh, I asked my friends that listen to
01:29:54
your podcast. I was like, "Come on, give
01:29:56
me some help here."
01:29:57
>> Oh, [laughter] what did they say? Oh,
01:29:58
this is interesting.
01:30:00
>> Um, Lisa said that um that I'm crazy.
01:30:04
[laughter]
01:30:05
She will never ever get in a rally car
01:30:07
with me.
01:30:08
>> Who Who's Lisa?
01:30:09
>> She's uh um she was my right-hand lady
01:30:12
at work when I um first took on the
01:30:14
business back in 2014. Um and now she's
01:30:17
got a we girl, Dixie, and so she's
01:30:19
part-time with us still. So, yeah. So,
01:30:21
um but yeah, she she likes loves your
01:30:23
podcast.
01:30:24
>> Oh, fantastic. Crazy. What else? We're
01:30:26
just [laughter]
01:30:27
talking with one
01:30:28
>> determined. Yeah, determined. Um, and
01:30:32
um, they they all said really nice
01:30:34
things, but I'm not going to say them.
01:30:35
>> Yeah. [laughter] Oh, why not? Oh, you
01:30:37
you you should. It's quite funny because
01:30:39
what she said what she said I thought
01:30:40
was really nice was that even though I'm
01:30:42
juggling all of these things, I still
01:30:44
always make time for my friends and
01:30:45
that's a really important thing. So, I
01:30:47
thought that was really nice that, you
01:30:48
know, because my friends and that are
01:30:49
important to me. So, it's not it's not
01:30:51
all about business and success and
01:30:53
achieving. I still appreciate the the
01:30:56
important things, the things that
01:30:57
matter. Really?
01:30:58
>> That's cool. How did that make you feel
01:31:00
hearing hearing people's It's like
01:31:02
>> bit emotional. Yeah. Like because it's
01:31:04
it's it's nice. I mean because you kind
01:31:06
of try and lift that way but for it to
01:31:08
be recognized is is nice. Yeah.
01:31:11
>> How this has been fun.
01:31:12
>> Yeah. Thank you.
01:31:14
>> How is it for you to reflect on some of
01:31:15
the highs and lows of life? Um I think I
01:31:19
probably naturally do it a lot anyway
01:31:21
because I always try and live you know I
01:31:22
was listening um uh to someone's eulogy
01:31:26
at their funeral and um he was an
01:31:28
amazing inspiring man and um you know
01:31:31
and his thing was always about living
01:31:33
your best life and I think such powerful
01:31:35
words you know if you if you're focusing
01:31:37
on just living your best life every day
01:31:39
then you know you do end up living your
01:31:41
best life don't you?
01:31:41
>> Yeah.
01:31:42
>> Yeah.
01:31:43
>> Absolutely.
01:31:44
>> Any closing words? No, just thanks for
01:31:47
thanks. Are you coming back for another
01:31:48
ride? [laughter]
01:31:49
>> [ __ ] no.
01:31:50
>> No. One and done.
01:31:52
>> No, no, it was it was actually really
01:31:54
enjoyable. I found it super inspiring.
01:31:55
As I said before, I felt super safe in
01:31:57
the vehicle and I know I know I was in
01:31:59
experienced hands. What were you what
01:32:01
were you giving it? Say on a scale of 1
01:32:02
to 10. [laughter]
01:32:04
>> Um,
01:32:04
>> was it like a seven? Six.
01:32:06
>> Yeah, six to seven. I was sad cuz was
01:32:07
the stage you were first up, so I was
01:32:09
still learning the road. I didn't really
01:32:10
know where the road went. So, you didn't
01:32:11
want to be known that. [laughter]
01:32:14
>> Oh, wow. Oh, that was cool. Oh, well, I
01:32:16
really appreciate the opportunity and
01:32:17
I'm so pleased we connected today. It's
01:32:19
been a great podcast.
01:32:20
>> Awesome. Thank you.
01:32:20
>> Thank you, Emma Gilmore.
