00:00:00
I could kill you and no one would ever
00:00:02
find out. What have I done?
00:00:03
>> And we haven't even talked about the Ws
00:00:04
yet here yet.
00:00:04
>> I've got a McDonald's bag and I'm new.
00:00:07
>> Jason Paris, who is he? Kid from
00:00:08
Southland. I found out I had five half
00:00:10
brothers. He had six boys, three
00:00:12
different women. That's a lot to take
00:00:14
in.
00:00:14
>> He left straight away and didn't come
00:00:17
back.
00:00:17
>> You got no anger about that? He's not my
00:00:19
dad. Do you forgive him? Are you
00:00:20
familiar with imposter syndrome? I've
00:00:21
got the imposter syndrome as a dad. I'm
00:00:23
waiting for someone to tap me on the
00:00:24
shoulder and go, "How the hell did you
00:00:25
get here?"
00:00:28
in Paris. Welcome to my podcast.
00:00:30
>> Thanks very much for having me, Dom.
00:00:32
>> Hey. And um congratulations. Today, uh
00:00:34
the day that we're recording this is
00:00:35
your sixth anniversary at 1 NZ.
00:00:38
>> It is. Yeah. So, it's gone super fast.
00:00:40
Uh more gray hair. Uh a little a little
00:00:45
bit more experienced.
00:00:46
>> I feel like you you've been rocking the
00:00:48
silver fox look since your 30s, have
00:00:50
you?
00:00:51
>> Yeah, it's been it has been a while. And
00:00:53
uh the beauty of going gray early is
00:00:55
people say you haven't aged. So, uh
00:00:57
yeah. So, I've uh I've rocked the silver
00:00:59
fox look for for a while.
00:01:00
>> Oh, well, you do. I think you look um
00:01:02
and I'm not just pissing in your pocket
00:01:03
here to get on the right side of you
00:01:05
early in the podcast, but um you turned
00:01:06
50 last week. I I think you look you're
00:01:08
looking great. Maybe it's the dimples
00:01:09
that give you that
00:01:10
>> Oh, thank you.
00:01:10
>> youthful look. Is this the longest job
00:01:12
you've had in your corporate
00:01:14
>> uh career?
00:01:15
>> Uh no, the one before this it was 7
00:01:17
years, but I've been in the telco
00:01:19
industry now for kind of what that means
00:01:21
15. So,
00:01:22
>> longest industry uh I've uh I've been
00:01:25
in.
00:01:26
>> Where was the previous one? Was that
00:01:27
Spark? Yeah.
00:01:28
>> Yeah. So I took a took a job actually
00:01:30
not with Vodafone New Zealand but to
00:01:32
move across to London with my family
00:01:34
>> and then at the last minute it changed
00:01:35
and I got told I was CEO of New Zealand
00:01:37
for Vodafone way back then. And so um
00:01:40
our plans quickly reversed and uh and we
00:01:43
stayed in Aliadawa which has been you
00:01:46
know given what happened the last few
00:01:47
years and co etc was a blessing in the
00:01:50
in the scheme of things.
00:01:51
>> Yeah. So um yeah let's run through your
00:01:54
your career. Yeah. So, it's 1 NZ for the
00:01:55
last six years, Spark before that. Um,
00:01:57
let's go backwards.
00:01:59
>> Uh, so I had a brief stint at Media
00:02:01
Works in TV. Um, and then before that
00:02:04
was TVN zed. And then, uh, before that
00:02:08
was Nokia. Uh, and then before that was
00:02:11
McDonald's uh, back in New Zealand. So,
00:02:13
I had
00:02:15
just four years uh, in London uh,
00:02:17
working with Nokia. Um, and the rest of
00:02:19
those jobs were uh, were were in were in
00:02:22
New Zealand. And so mainly kind of tech
00:02:25
industry stuff is uh what I've been what
00:02:28
I've been in. Um and I'd include media
00:02:30
in that as well because when I kind of
00:02:32
came into the media industry in 2007
00:02:35
um you know technology was starting to
00:02:36
play a bigger part in uh in that
00:02:38
industry too.
00:02:39
>> Jeez, it's not a bad CV is it from for a
00:02:42
kid from Southland with um out of
00:02:43
tertiary education.
00:02:45
>> Yeah. You've done all right. I've been
00:02:46
pretty lucky and the the cool thing
00:02:48
about it is uh I have haven't had to
00:02:51
apply for too many of those those roles
00:02:54
proactively. I've been shoulder tapped
00:02:56
for whatever reason. Uh I think that's
00:02:58
one of the beauties of the New Zealand
00:02:59
marketplace is that you know it's a bit
00:03:01
of a village and so um the relationships
00:03:04
that you have often, you know, create
00:03:06
create doors. In fact, my very first job
00:03:08
um was on the way back from a rugby trip
00:03:11
to the west coast and the rugby manager
00:03:14
of the Southland team was the rugby
00:03:15
manager of Trust Bank Southland and he
00:03:17
said, "What are you thinking about
00:03:18
doing? You want to come and work for
00:03:19
me?" And so um that was my uh my pivot
00:03:24
into uh into working into working life.
00:03:26
Although I also got uh declined for
00:03:29
teachers training college just before
00:03:30
that too. So it was kind of a a forced a
00:03:32
forced move because the teaching
00:03:34
industry didn't want me way back in '92.
00:03:36
>> Jeez. what they do for some male
00:03:38
teachers now. Also, I saw the car when
00:03:40
you pulled up today in Pod Lab. Not many
00:03:41
school teachers driving cars like that.
00:03:43
>> Yeah, I'm pretty lucky. That's uh Yeah,
00:03:45
it's a it's a nice car. Saved up for two
00:03:47
or three years for that one. And um
00:03:50
yeah, it's uh kind of uh my little
00:03:52
treat.
00:03:52
>> Oh, good on you. Good on you. What would
00:03:54
you say your
00:03:54
>> It's not a Maserati or a twodoor sports
00:03:56
car, though. It's a It's a good SUV,
00:03:58
though.
00:03:59
>> It is. It's a It's a sensible car for a
00:04:01
for a man of your vintage.
00:04:02
>> Okay, that's very nice. Um what would
00:04:04
you say your top five um like career
00:04:06
greatest hits are? Like surely the the
00:04:08
transition from Vodafone to 1 and z the
00:04:09
rebrand is one of them.
00:04:11
>> Yeah. Vodafone to uh 1 Z. Um Telecom to
00:04:14
Spark. Um
00:04:16
>> Oh, you were part of that?
00:04:17
>> Yeah. Yeah. Uh
00:04:19
>> so this ain't your first radio?
00:04:20
>> No. No. Um uh coming up with and and
00:04:24
launching TVNZ on demand. Uh so that was
00:04:27
a big a big kind of industry move. I'd
00:04:28
say a pretty important asset for TV and
00:04:31
Zed. Uh back then,
00:04:33
um I didn't have anything to do with
00:04:36
this, but when we were when I was at
00:04:37
Media Works, uh the way that the team
00:04:40
handled the Christ Church Canterbury
00:04:42
earthquakes earthquakes and then the
00:04:44
Japanese tsunami afterwards, um I was
00:04:47
just delivering pizzas to the newsroom.
00:04:48
It was really Mark Jennings that was
00:04:50
leading it. But I was really proud of
00:04:51
the culture that we built uh around
00:04:53
around that time and the kind of do a
00:04:55
lot with a little uh mentality. And then
00:04:59
uh probably some of the product
00:05:01
innovation that we did at McDonald's way
00:05:03
back in the day. I remember coming up
00:05:04
with the chicken Mcheese uh when I was
00:05:06
in my uh Yes. Yes. Yes. And um uh so
00:05:11
yeah, there's a there's a there's a few
00:05:12
there's a few things from a professional
00:05:14
perspective that I'm proud of and
00:05:15
hopefully uh there's more to come.
00:05:18
>> What what about um career uh greatest
00:05:20
[ __ ]
00:05:22
>> Uh the McDonald's placemats.
00:05:23
>> Yeah. So that was a shocker uh putting
00:05:26
>> What's the story there? So, uh, the
00:05:29
advertising agency put a bunch of, um,
00:05:32
faces in front of me and pictures and we
00:05:35
were the sponsor of, um, the Small
00:05:37
Whites, uh, um, which is the New Zealand
00:05:41
football kind of, uh, campaign. And I I
00:05:45
I thought that they were all signed off
00:05:48
and uh, and they had the rights to them.
00:05:50
And of course, I chose the one with the
00:05:53
Maui Queen's grandson on it, which is
00:05:56
very bad to be eating food off anyone
00:06:00
from Maldi. 1.2 million
00:06:03
tray mat place mats went out and that
00:06:05
had to be uh had to be reprinted. So,
00:06:09
wasn't uh wasn't a stellar moment in my
00:06:12
uh in my in my career. So, I remember
00:06:14
that one. Luckily, my boss was uh pretty
00:06:16
supportive. Did you Did you have to make
00:06:17
a phone call to him to let him That must
00:06:19
have been a fun fun conversation.
00:06:21
>> 1.2 million train maps have to be have
00:06:23
to be recalled. So yeah, that wasn't a
00:06:26
that wasn't that wasn't great. Um low
00:06:28
lightss or any uh any structural change
00:06:30
when you're having hard conversations
00:06:32
about job losses. That that's the worst
00:06:34
that keeps you um keeps you up at night.
00:06:36
>> Um yeah, those would be the things that
00:06:39
that are the most kind of draining. And
00:06:41
then you have to remember that you're
00:06:43
making the decision and having the
00:06:44
conversation, but it's much worse for
00:06:46
the person that you're having the
00:06:47
conversation with, too.
00:06:48
>> Actually, I'm I'm not surprised you said
00:06:49
that cuz from um from my research and
00:06:51
from what I know about your management
00:06:52
style, um yeah, you like you're a real
00:06:55
open door kind of guy. Um so yeah,
00:06:58
something like um McDonald's place, m
00:07:00
it's it's a bit of money lost. It's a
00:07:03
stupid mistake, but um yeah, I'm not
00:07:05
surprised that you said that about the
00:07:06
people.
00:07:06
>> Yeah, it's the worst. And uh you know,
00:07:09
unfortunately with me, what you see is
00:07:11
what you get. I'm the same person at
00:07:12
home as I am at uh as I am at work. And
00:07:15
uh anything that impacts people or if I
00:07:17
feel like I've let them down in any way,
00:07:19
whether it's family or friends and at
00:07:22
work and and sometimes you get those
00:07:23
things wrong and those are the things
00:07:24
that you beat yourself up about the
00:07:26
most.
00:07:26
>> Yeah. Hey, we'll um dig deep into your
00:07:29
into your management style and your
00:07:30
theories and things. Um but first of
00:07:31
all, let's go all the way back. So um
00:07:34
Jason Paris, who is he? Kid from
00:07:35
Southland.
00:07:36
>> Yeah. proud Southlander. Uh born in
00:07:38
Invagle. Uh solo mom. She was young uh
00:07:42
16 and then uh my father uh he left
00:07:46
straight away and didn't didn't come
00:07:49
back. So I've he was never a part of my
00:07:51
life until um he actually died and we
00:07:54
went to his funeral in in uh in Christ
00:07:56
Church. Had no had no connection with
00:07:58
him. My mom's an incredible woman. Very
00:08:00
strong. Uh a really privileged to have a
00:08:02
young grandmother now. In fact, she was
00:08:04
just up in the weekend playing shooting
00:08:06
hoops with uh her grand her
00:08:08
grandchildren. So that's cool. But at
00:08:10
the time um solo mom 16 uh domestic
00:08:14
purposes benefit uh kind of life being
00:08:18
her teenage years being taken away from
00:08:20
her by having a young young child. You
00:08:21
know what a massive sacrifice.
00:08:23
>> Were you were you an only child?
00:08:25
>> Yeah. So mom uh didn't you know my
00:08:28
father left straight away. didn't come
00:08:29
back. And then for whatever reason um
00:08:32
mom didn't have a relationship that uh
00:08:36
stuck to a point where she would have
00:08:38
another uh another child. And so it
00:08:42
ended up being basically me and her and
00:08:44
then uh my grandparents. So her mom and
00:08:47
dad uh who um who kind of you know
00:08:51
brought me up. So freezing worker stock
00:08:54
uh right through my family. So my
00:08:55
grandparents freezing workers, my uncle,
00:08:58
my mom ended up after I got to the
00:09:00
school age where she could go and uh be
00:09:02
at the freezing works. In fact, she just
00:09:04
retired last year from uh from Alliance
00:09:06
Freezing Works where she was a meat
00:09:08
inspector for a number of years.
00:09:09
>> Yeah. So if you're if you've just turned
00:09:10
50, she must be 66. Yeah. What are your
00:09:14
um Yeah. What are your recollection of
00:09:15
those years? Cuz you know, you and I are
00:09:17
similar age. And um yeah, I remember
00:09:19
when my my mom and dad broke up. I was I
00:09:21
was from Palmer. Mom and dad broke up
00:09:22
when I was about 10. And um there was
00:09:24
only one other kid in my class, Craig,
00:09:26
who had like like a was from a broken
00:09:28
home. It was such a rare thing. Um yeah.
00:09:31
Was it like embarrassing? Did you did
00:09:33
you feel like you you know you didn't
00:09:35
fit in or you felt different?
00:09:37
>> No, not at all actually. Uh and
00:09:41
uh
00:09:43
I think there were a few broken homes.
00:09:45
Um or actually I noticed some kids that
00:09:47
were in homes that weren't broken that I
00:09:48
wouldn't have want to been a part of
00:09:49
either. you know, some some pretty tough
00:09:52
situations that kids find themselves in.
00:09:54
Um, well, I found themselves in back
00:09:56
then and still find themselves in today.
00:09:58
So, to be honest, although we didn't
00:10:00
have a lot, I didn't realize it at all,
00:10:02
you know. Um, we moved it moved a bit
00:10:05
again, you know, social welfare,
00:10:06
housing, all that type of type of thing.
00:10:08
But, uh, I never feel like I never
00:10:13
remember feeling that I was missing out
00:10:14
on anything. And actually also most
00:10:17
importantly that I couldn't do anything
00:10:19
that I put my mind to either. If you my
00:10:21
mom's kind of drummed into me if you
00:10:23
work hard you give it your best then you
00:10:24
can achieve achieve anything. And so
00:10:27
>> it's only kind of now uh when I have you
00:10:32
know privilege to have a nice car. They
00:10:34
didn't realize we didn't have a nice
00:10:35
car. But, um,
00:10:38
it it it, you know, food on the table,
00:10:41
bed, loving environment, uh, a mom that
00:10:45
believed and supported in me. Um, and
00:10:48
and actually I was I was lucky. I had a
00:10:50
lot of positive positive role models. My
00:10:51
grandparents, as I mentioned, my uncle,
00:10:53
but also school teachers, um, sports
00:10:55
coaches. So, it was a tough tough
00:10:58
environment in Invar and Southland, but
00:11:00
um I was surrounded by a bunch of great
00:11:03
people.
00:11:03
>> And did you have like a chip on your
00:11:05
shoulder about your dad or anything? How
00:11:07
did how did your mom sort of address
00:11:08
that?
00:11:09
>> No, not at all. Uh
00:11:12
the probably the biggest chip on my
00:11:13
shoulder was when we I had children
00:11:15
myself and uh I realized that there are
00:11:18
little moments that
00:11:20
>> you know uh and this is a kind of a
00:11:23
generalization that
00:11:24
>> maybe your dad teaches you to back a
00:11:26
back a trailer and that's not you know
00:11:28
something that you would say now
00:11:30
nowadays or put a um a hook on a on a um
00:11:33
uh on a fishing fishing line. I hadn't
00:11:35
been taught any of those traditional dad
00:11:38
uh dad things. So, I'm having to YouTube
00:11:40
them and teach and teach myself because
00:11:43
I want to pass them on to my kids, both
00:11:45
my boys and and my daughter to back a
00:11:47
trailer and to and to fish um etc. When
00:11:50
I went met my um my wife uh Ra, she
00:11:55
wondered why I hadn't um sought out to
00:12:00
reconnect with my father. Uh and I'd
00:12:03
never really contemplated it. Um, and
00:12:07
probably the reason was I didn't feel
00:12:08
like I'd missed anything. Uh and
00:12:13
so it wasn't really until um I started
00:12:16
having we had our children where I was
00:12:19
like hm maybe I did miss some miss miss
00:12:21
something but it didn't wasn't enough to
00:12:25
drive with me to reconnect then uh then
00:12:28
either uh my grandparents lived in the
00:12:31
same house for what would have been 20
00:12:35
to 25 years after I was born and so he
00:12:38
had plenty of time to And if ever was a
00:12:40
small place, even though he moved to uh
00:12:42
to Christ Church, if he wanted to find
00:12:44
me, he could have. So, probably the only
00:12:46
probably sadness is, you know, if if um
00:12:49
you're a dad with a with a kid, uh it's
00:12:52
probably when you're 17, you can make an
00:12:54
excuse that you might be a little bit
00:12:55
immature and
00:12:57
>> and not be prepared to stick around, but
00:12:59
you'd hope when you're 37 or or 47 that
00:13:02
you might have some reflection and go,
00:13:04
actually, you might want to reconnect
00:13:06
with uh with your child. Um
00:13:09
Unfortunately, he didn't he didn't want
00:13:10
to.
00:13:11
>> Yeah. You You got no anger about that?
00:13:14
>> No. Because
00:13:15
>> he's sort of indifferent to it.
00:13:16
>> Yeah. And I um he I you know, I referred
00:13:19
to him as my father. He's not my not my
00:13:21
dad. Um
00:13:22
>> your dad's a t I've got firm views on
00:13:25
this having um you been involved in a
00:13:27
family adoption and stuff. Like a dad's
00:13:28
a title that's got to be earned.
00:13:30
>> Yeah. Correct. And so that's just not
00:13:32
how um
00:13:34
>> how I how I see him. Um you know, unfort
00:13:36
unfortunately he passed away. uh mom
00:13:39
found out about it. We went to his
00:13:40
funeral to pay our respects, but also uh
00:13:43
find out about health history. Right. He
00:13:45
died uh quite young. And so we want to
00:13:47
know if there's anything that I need to
00:13:49
watch out for or our kids needed to
00:13:51
watch out for.
00:13:52
>> That was a kind of a nice moment though
00:13:53
because there um uh by all accounts, and
00:13:56
this is a whole the the story of his
00:13:58
funeral is a u a podcast in itself, but
00:14:01
I found out I had five half brothers. I
00:14:04
didn't know uh that existed. And we all
00:14:07
found out about each other at the
00:14:10
funeral. And so
00:14:12
>> young younger than you, I'm assuming.
00:14:14
>> I'm the eldest. So I went to the
00:14:15
funeral. His this funeral was opened by
00:14:19
someone who said, "I'm Robert's eldest
00:14:22
son."
00:14:23
>> And [ __ ]
00:14:25
>> But my wife did say that. She'd heard
00:14:26
about two two big bottles of spades by
00:14:28
that point. She was like, "He's not the
00:14:31
eldest son." And I'm like, "Shut up.
00:14:33
We're only here to pay our respects. We
00:14:34
don't want a KFC. Uh but over time uh
00:14:38
over that funeral um a scene was created
00:14:40
because people started to find out
00:14:43
because um my uncle so my father's
00:14:46
brother turned up and uh and he was from
00:14:49
Chicago and uh and he mentioned to
00:14:51
someone and then everyone at the funeral
00:14:53
started to find out about uh me and then
00:14:57
all of us found out about another set
00:14:59
another two boys. So there was
00:15:01
>> I like three sort of three family
00:15:03
groups. Yeah. Yeah. So he had uh six
00:15:08
boys to three different women.
00:15:11
>> So Oh my god. Oh my god. That's a That's
00:15:16
a lot to take in.
00:15:17
>> Yeah.
00:15:17
>> How many years ago was this? The
00:15:18
funeral.
00:15:18
>> Uh about what it been I'd say five five
00:15:23
years ago. Five years ago now. And um
00:15:25
it's also when I found out about my
00:15:26
connection to Nahu which I didn't know
00:15:28
existed at that time. and it set me on a
00:15:30
journey to mainly for my kids to just
00:15:33
see if the connection with that side of
00:15:36
the family was something that would be
00:15:37
meaningful um for them. So, um we've
00:15:40
just started taking some gentle baby
00:15:42
steps along along that journey. But
00:15:44
yeah, man, that was a pretty
00:15:46
mind-blowing experience where you find
00:15:48
out well each you all find out you got
00:15:50
five half brothers that you didn't know
00:15:52
exist all at the same time at a funeral.
00:15:54
So,
00:15:55
>> it's it's a lot to unpack.
00:15:56
>> It is a lot to unpack. It's a lot. Yeah,
00:15:58
you need a lot of space to to Well, and
00:16:01
have you got a relationship now with um
00:16:03
your half brothers?
00:16:04
>> Uh no, not really. No, like uh social
00:16:07
media relationship.
00:16:08
>> Mhm.
00:16:09
>> You know, so
00:16:10
uh lots of um happy birthdays,
00:16:13
congratulations, that kind of that kind
00:16:15
of stuff.
00:16:16
>> It's a lot of extra free phones to hand
00:16:17
out.
00:16:18
>> It is. And like I said to I said to Ra,
00:16:21
like I don't get to spend enough time
00:16:23
with my family and my closest mates that
00:16:25
I've,
00:16:26
>> you know, known since I was five years
00:16:28
old. Uh let alone a whole bunch of other
00:16:30
people to um build a relationship. But,
00:16:33
you know, that might change when I have
00:16:34
more time. They're really good people.
00:16:36
Uh I really enjoyed uh catching up uh
00:16:38
catching up with them
00:16:40
>> and um
00:16:42
>> yeah, and who and who knows? But uh
00:16:45
yeah, all of us I think were taken by
00:16:47
surprise and have just kind of socially
00:16:49
stayed in contact and gone, how do we
00:16:51
even deal with that?
00:16:52
>> Yeah. And and what do you know about
00:16:54
your your father? Like was was he a good
00:16:56
dad to some of the other kids?
00:16:57
>> Not really.
00:16:58
>> No. So
00:16:58
>> well that must be pleasing in a way.
00:17:00
>> Yeah. Yeah. Like I think uh I don't I
00:17:03
think he was a father not a dad again
00:17:05
like that that that point. And don't
00:17:07
want to speak too ill of the of the
00:17:09
dead. Um there was a big funeral so
00:17:11
clearly he had a lot of friends. uh and
00:17:15
uh and people who liked him. Yeah. Um he
00:17:19
was very social. Uh big drinker, big
00:17:22
smoker and uh died of lung cancer. Um
00:17:27
>> the interesting thing was people would
00:17:29
come up to were coming up to me at the
00:17:30
funeral and would say
00:17:33
uh you know, we're so sorry we didn't
00:17:34
acknowledge you. And I and I said, oh,
00:17:36
it is what it is. He would say it is
00:17:39
what it is. And then I'd say something
00:17:40
else and they'd go he would say that and
00:17:42
then they'd tell you about and I said oh
00:17:44
I'm sports mad he was sports mad you
00:17:46
know people
00:17:48
and New Zealand is a sports mad and a
00:17:51
lot of people say it is what it is but
00:17:52
people you know kind of grabbing or
00:17:54
gravitating onto things that
00:17:56
>> uh were a connection uh and also you
00:17:59
know I probably have they said I had
00:18:01
some mannerisms and some ways of talking
00:18:03
or whatever that uh that reminded um
00:18:08
them of of him. So, without a doubt,
00:18:11
like when you have a child, you are, you
00:18:14
know, 50% 50%, you shake it up into a
00:18:17
cocktail mix and that's what you get.
00:18:19
So, I'm going to I'm going to have a bit
00:18:20
of uh a bit of connection with him. But
00:18:23
don't no regrets. No, like there's no I'
00:18:26
never never been a point in my life at
00:18:28
all where I've
00:18:30
uh regretted not um not reaching out
00:18:35
earlier and uh and connecting with him.
00:18:36
M I think that speaks volumes about your
00:18:39
mom and the job she did. So you never
00:18:41
felt like there was um like a gap or a
00:18:43
hole there. And did you did you when
00:18:46
when did you have an appreciation of
00:18:47
just how how badass she was and what a
00:18:50
good job she did? She you know cuz your
00:18:51
kids are 16 now, right? Same your kids
00:18:54
are the same sort of age as what your
00:18:55
mom was when she had you. You're still a
00:18:57
kid at that age.
00:18:58
>> Yeah.
00:18:58
>> Like did you did you have an
00:18:59
appreciation growing up that about your
00:19:01
mom or when did that come?
00:19:05
Suppose when you're growing up, you
00:19:06
don't really think about it, do you?
00:19:07
>> Well, no. Also, you know, like you're a
00:19:08
teenager, you're a bit of a [ __ ] too.
00:19:09
You don't think you're thinking about
00:19:10
yourself versus, you know, think about
00:19:13
teenage years, you know. Um, luckily,
00:19:16
our kids are a little bit different and
00:19:18
um and great and great kids.
00:19:20
>> I I think it was really when we had our
00:19:23
own children and realized how difficult
00:19:27
it is to bring up uh bring up a kid that
00:19:32
I appreciate it. And then also now that
00:19:34
I'm, you know, of this of this age,
00:19:37
putting kids aside, just the
00:19:39
relationship that I've got with with mom
00:19:41
with mom now and thinking about um how
00:19:45
difficult it must have been to be in her
00:19:48
situation uh and the sacrifices that she
00:19:50
that she made. But
00:19:54
it's I it's a it was I know use that
00:19:57
word a lot. It's a privilege like I got
00:19:59
given leadership at a very early age
00:20:01
like probably 3 years old to do stuff
00:20:03
right jobs around the house or
00:20:04
responsibility and that was three four
00:20:07
five six uh a lot of change in my life
00:20:10
which means
00:20:11
>> I actually I love change I love
00:20:13
industries and jobs and life that is
00:20:16
free flowing doesn't that doesn't uh
00:20:18
doesn't stress me stress me out at all
00:20:21
um and also I have a sense of I suppose
00:20:24
of positivity that Um,
00:20:27
if you put your mind to something,
00:20:30
you've got people, even just one person
00:20:31
in your life that believes in you and
00:20:34
sees that you've got potential and tells
00:20:35
you you've got potential, the world is
00:20:37
your oyster. So, from that background,
00:20:41
um, it's given me a hugely positive view
00:20:46
on life and potential of anyone from
00:20:50
anywhere across across the country. Uh,
00:20:52
and so, you know, um, it's another gift
00:20:55
that mom's given me.
00:20:57
>> Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. And it's it's
00:21:00
awesome that she's still, um, young
00:21:01
enough that, you know, you can tell her
00:21:03
these things and she knows how
00:21:04
appreciated she is and what an awesome
00:21:06
job she did.
00:21:07
>> And she's got a toy boy and Barry who's
00:21:09
64 and, uh, Barry
00:21:11
>> and Grandad Barry's uh, he's been around
00:21:13
for 20 years, so the entire uh, entire
00:21:17
uh, childhood of our of our kids. And
00:21:18
so, he is their grandfather. Um, and
00:21:20
he's a great man. So, um, yeah, we're
00:21:22
lucky to have him in, uh, in our lives
00:21:24
as as well. And maybe if they had met
00:21:25
earlier, then there might have been
00:21:27
another another child, but they met
00:21:28
later in life. And, um, and that's
00:21:31
great. And, uh, you know, they are
00:21:32
they're partners in crime.
00:21:34
>> Yeah. Do you know um, just one more
00:21:35
question about your dad. Do you know if
00:21:36
he like follow followed your career from
00:21:38
afar or anything like that?
00:21:40
>> No, not at all. No. Uh,
00:21:42
>> see, cuz he he must have been Well, you
00:21:43
lived in the same town, e, while you
00:21:45
were growing up.
00:21:45
>> No. So, he he moved. So from what I
00:21:49
understand is uh he moved from Invagle
00:21:52
to Christ Church pretty much straight
00:21:53
away and didn't uh and didn't come back
00:21:55
and um and if he did come back to
00:21:58
Invagle to see his parents or um his
00:22:01
brothers and sisters didn't uh didn't
00:22:03
seek me out. Uh and so yeah, it was
00:22:07
never like mom
00:22:09
never ever uh described him in a
00:22:12
negative way. Like um I it was only when
00:22:15
I was much older that I started asking
00:22:17
mom a little bit about about him that
00:22:20
you know she told me a little bit about
00:22:22
about what he's like and she's kept me
00:22:24
connected with his brothers and sisters.
00:22:26
Um, so my uncles and aunties, but they
00:22:29
were more like not proper uncles and
00:22:31
aunties, but kind of um friends, older
00:22:34
friends of ms, etc. And they've told me
00:22:36
a few stories along the way as uh as
00:22:38
well. Um, I knew he was a good athlete,
00:22:40
good long-distance runner. Uh, but you
00:22:44
know, um, I'd give him a break when he
00:22:46
was 17. I wouldn't have give I don't
00:22:48
give him a break when he was, you know,
00:22:50
47.
00:22:50
>> Yeah. Yeah. Do you forgive him?
00:22:55
>> It's a good question.
00:22:57
Well, I'm not sure I've got anything to
00:22:59
forgive him for because I don't feel
00:23:00
like I've missed out on anything. Um,
00:23:08
yeah, I'd like to I'd like to think that
00:23:11
he if he had his time again would regret
00:23:15
not being a dad
00:23:17
>> to me, but
00:23:20
>> I don't know.
00:23:21
>> Yeah,
00:23:22
>> I definitely would. But it's not like um
00:23:24
Yeah, it seems sad, like a waste of a
00:23:25
life in a way because it seems like it's
00:23:27
not just a mistake he made with you.
00:23:28
It's a mistake he made repeatedly with
00:23:30
>> Yeah, I can't speak I can't speak for my
00:23:33
um half brothers. And the fact that they
00:23:35
were all
00:23:36
>> at his funeral and um uh and were there
00:23:40
and uh opened up
00:23:42
>> uh I think he it's it's clearly he
00:23:45
improved uh over over time. Uh so so
00:23:51
that's so that's great. But um yeah, he
00:23:54
just he didn't play that role in in uh
00:23:57
in in my life. So yeah, like I bottom
00:24:00
line is I do forgive him because there's
00:24:02
nothing to forgive. Um but there's some
00:24:05
regret I think there.
00:24:07
>> Yeah.
00:24:07
>> Well, thanks for sharing that. I I
00:24:08
appreciate it. Is it hard to talk about
00:24:10
now or not really?
00:24:11
>> Uh no, not really. I think you know that
00:24:14
question you just asked then, do I
00:24:15
forgive him?
00:24:16
it it kind of struck an emotional chord
00:24:19
because it made me more reflective of
00:24:23
the life I've the relationship I've got
00:24:25
with my own children and how much I
00:24:27
value value that.
00:24:29
>> So it makes me sad that
00:24:32
someone that uh
00:24:35
>> you know was my father didn't value
00:24:38
that.
00:24:38
>> That's the sad part I think. And um
00:24:43
>> but I can't change that now. So yeah,
00:24:45
move on. Yeah, cuz you're um you're
00:24:47
you're you're very very much a hands-on
00:24:50
dad. Um I I saw a LinkedIn post a couple
00:24:52
of weeks ago um about you being invited
00:24:55
to some to some Starink launch in the
00:24:56
States, but it clashes with what is it
00:24:58
like your daughter's prize giving or
00:25:00
>> It was her year six graduation.
00:25:01
>> Bro, do it do it by FaceTime. Go over to
00:25:05
the Starling thing. Like you've been a
00:25:07
really good dad. You haven't missed
00:25:08
anything important, you know? Come on.
00:25:11
>> I think go to the Starling thing. I
00:25:13
think that's uh that is one of the um
00:25:15
results of uh not having a uh a dad in
00:25:20
my life and and my wife uh has unlocked
00:25:25
this is
00:25:28
I'm chasing to be the greatest dad
00:25:31
>> and I and I and I and I I'll never think
00:25:33
it's going to be good enough, you know?
00:25:35
So, you want to do more and more and
00:25:36
more and more and more and uh and I beat
00:25:38
myself up about about stuff. I'm getting
00:25:41
better at it. Um I don't think that the
00:25:44
year six graduation versus the Starlink
00:25:46
and SpaceX launch that was a deliberate
00:25:49
decision because I was, you know, and um
00:25:52
I talked to my daughter and I said, you
00:25:55
know, how this year six graduation, you
00:25:57
know, how big a deal it is. I didn't put
00:25:59
any pressure because I'm about to not go
00:26:00
and meet Elon Musk and go and watch this
00:26:03
rocket launch. She said, "Dad, it's the
00:26:05
biggest moment of my life."
00:26:07
>> And at that point, it was done. There
00:26:09
are going to be plenty more rocket
00:26:10
launches, hopefully plenty more
00:26:12
opportunities to go to SpaceX, but I'm
00:26:14
never going to get that year six
00:26:16
graduation back.
00:26:17
>> But don't get me wrong, I don't go to
00:26:19
every single thing that she would like
00:26:21
me to go to. So, uh, she had Athletics
00:26:24
Day two weeks ago.
00:26:26
>> Uh, I couldn't get to it. I know that
00:26:28
other moms and dads uh were there. So,
00:26:31
it's not every single event that I that
00:26:33
I get to, but it's the ones that either
00:26:35
really are really important to me, uh,
00:26:38
or really important to her or the or the
00:26:40
two boys. Uh, and I'm proud to say that
00:26:43
I haven't haven't missed that moment, a
00:26:45
moment. And, um, and I'm proud that
00:26:47
actually I've worked for organizations
00:26:49
and I've been in teams that have uh,
00:26:51
supported me to make it happen. And, and
00:26:53
I would, uh, I would I would them.
00:26:56
>> Good on you. I I think that's admirable.
00:26:58
But, devil's advocate. It'd be very easy
00:27:00
for you to say, "Listen, my dad didn't
00:27:02
come to any of my things and I turned
00:27:03
out fine."
00:27:04
>> Yeah, I know. But I So, I think it's
00:27:06
actually more of a That's why I I made
00:27:08
that observation. I think it's more of
00:27:11
potentially me driving it. Like, don't
00:27:13
get me wrong,
00:27:14
>> I think when my daughter was doing her
00:27:15
dance and doing her songs and I was,
00:27:19
>> you know, I think it was lovely for her
00:27:20
to see my smiling face, but selfishly,
00:27:23
it was even more lovely for me to see
00:27:24
her smiling her smiling face. and I
00:27:26
wouldn't want to wanted would have want
00:27:27
to be anywhere else than that than that
00:27:30
that that moment.
00:27:31
>> But you're right. Um,
00:27:34
I don't necessarily think that uh going
00:27:38
to those events
00:27:40
is a requirement to demonstrate your
00:27:43
love and your commitment to your to your
00:27:45
child
00:27:46
>> because there are a whole bunch of
00:27:48
people in in New Zealand that love their
00:27:51
kids uh as much as I love mine but don't
00:27:54
have the flexibility that I' that I've
00:27:56
got to be able to make make those
00:27:58
decisions.
00:27:58
>> Yeah. and uh and their kids, as you
00:28:00
said, are going to be super fine uh
00:28:03
because of it.
00:28:05
>> Yeah. One of the advantages of getting
00:28:07
to the the age that you and I are at now
00:28:08
is you realize just um how precious time
00:28:10
is and how fast things go. So the these
00:28:13
moments are going to be gone in the
00:28:14
blink of an eye. Like your kids are
00:28:15
going to be growing up before you know
00:28:16
it, and you're going to be like, "Where
00:28:17
the [ __ ] did the time go?" So it's good
00:28:19
that you're um you can be present and be
00:28:20
in the moment and recognize that stuff
00:28:23
in real time. My boss said to me,
00:28:24
because I'm really emotional about uh
00:28:27
Sam, uh he's got another year and then
00:28:29
he goes to university or does whatever
00:28:31
he wants to do. And um I was talking to
00:28:34
my boss and said, "Man, I'm feeling
00:28:36
really emotional about him potentially
00:28:38
moving out of home." And she said,
00:28:41
"That's not the worst part because if
00:28:42
they go to university, they get a whole
00:28:44
bunch of holidays and they've got no
00:28:46
money, so they're going to come and see
00:28:47
you. When they start working, uh they've
00:28:49
got a bit of money, they get four weeks
00:28:51
off. Guess how many of those weeks they
00:28:52
want to spend with mom and dad? None.
00:28:55
Unless you pay for them. So that's was
00:28:58
even more upsetting. So I am very
00:29:00
conscious that uh you know you don't you
00:29:03
don't get those uh those moments back
00:29:05
and and um but not just with your uh
00:29:08
with your kids,
00:29:10
with uh friends, with with your partner,
00:29:13
you know, um with your mom. I remember
00:29:17
uh just last week I I I drove into the
00:29:20
driveway and I just had this big really
00:29:24
strong uh feeling of missing my
00:29:26
grandfather who I would call
00:29:28
periodically and just check in and and
00:29:30
say good day. So I all those moments are
00:29:33
kind of nice reminder that uh they're
00:29:35
important ones not to miss.
00:29:37
>> Yeah. How long has your granddad been
00:29:39
gone? Oh,
00:29:44
>> he would be 20 years now.
00:29:46
>> Amazing. Yeah.
00:29:47
>> You just had this feeling out of the out
00:29:48
of the bolt bolt out of the blue.
00:29:50
>> Yeah.
00:29:50
>> It's funny that but I think I think
00:29:51
that's the um yeah the ultimate tribute
00:29:53
to like a family member that's passed
00:29:55
that 20 years on you they still hold a
00:29:58
space in your heart. I think that's
00:29:59
really cool.
00:30:00
>> No, I think that's the right way to look
00:30:02
at it. Right.
00:30:03
if you miss them.
00:30:10
>> 100%. What about what about Ra? So your
00:30:13
wife Ra um you've been married like 20
00:30:15
years.
00:30:16
>> Yes.
00:30:16
>> What's the meat cute? So you met you met
00:30:18
in Queenstown?
00:30:19
>> Yeah. So
00:30:20
>> love at first sight.
00:30:21
>> It was for me.
00:30:22
>> I remember I remember her uh I actually
00:30:26
said this to I said, "Remember when we
00:30:27
met each other on the 27th of December
00:30:29
and we were walking down the kind of
00:30:32
court this courtyard or mall strip and
00:30:35
we our eyes locked and that connection
00:30:38
and she's like what?" She had no idea.
00:30:42
She was with a group of friends, girls.
00:30:44
I was with a group of friends, boys. And
00:30:46
um
00:30:48
uh I saw her and thought, "Oh my god."
00:30:51
And uh she didn't even notice me. And
00:30:54
then later that night, we ended up being
00:30:57
in the same uh bar and we got there
00:31:02
first. Uh there was a table not similar
00:31:04
to this. There was four of us here.
00:31:06
There was nowhere else for the girls to
00:31:07
sit. They looked everywhere to go
00:31:09
somewhere else apart from sit with us.
00:31:11
And then they came in and then we were
00:31:13
like w and um uh she was from Oakland, I
00:31:16
was from Invagle. Uh we were having
00:31:19
quite a bit of banter about the north
00:31:20
versus south. I said to her, "Uh, can I
00:31:24
get you a drink?" And she said, "Uh,
00:31:26
well, I'm from Oakuckland, so of course,
00:31:28
uh, I only drink Ballinger." And I was
00:31:31
like, "Okay, is it some RTD?" I didn't
00:31:34
know what Ballinger was. So, I went to
00:31:35
the bar, not knowing that she was
00:31:37
joking, and said, "Can I have a Spates
00:31:39
and a Ballinger? Thank you." And he
00:31:41
said, "Are you sure you want a
00:31:42
Ballinger?" And I said, "Yep." And he
00:31:45
goes, "Once I open it, I can't take it
00:31:48
back." And I thought, it must be like
00:31:50
one of those $10 RTDs. And I looked back
00:31:52
at Ra and I was like, "Yeah, she's worth
00:31:53
the 10 bucks." And he came back and I
00:31:57
remember him saying, "That's $100." And
00:32:00
I was like, "What do you mean?" He go I
00:32:03
said, "What did I just buy?" He said,
00:32:04
"You just bought the most expensive
00:32:05
bottle in the bar." I said, "I don't
00:32:08
want it. Take it back." He goes, "I've
00:32:10
opened it." So I said, "Have you got
00:32:13
anything by the glass, which is your
00:32:15
cheapest?" And so uh I got poured one
00:32:19
glass of Ballinger, one glass of the
00:32:21
cheapest bubbles, told this table what
00:32:23
had happened. We did a blind taste test
00:32:26
with Rachel and she got it wrong.
00:32:28
>> She chose the cheap one is the expensive
00:32:31
Ballinger. In her defense, she'd never
00:32:33
tasted Ballinger herself at that point
00:32:35
in her life. So she had nothing to
00:32:36
benchmark it against. But it's a joke
00:32:38
within our um Yeah. within our our
00:32:40
friends and family that uh we both got
00:32:42
kind of suck it in that suck it in that
00:32:44
night and the rest is history. Yeah. And
00:32:46
she's um she's phenomenal, right? She's
00:32:48
like a Harvard educated lawyer. Is she a
00:32:51
partner in a law firm?
00:32:52
>> Yeah. So, and an author.
00:32:53
>> I always say she should be the one doing
00:32:57
these having these conversations. She is
00:32:59
so much more impressive than I am in
00:33:02
every facet. She's not she's s She'll
00:33:05
hate me for saying this. She's slightly
00:33:07
uncoordinated, but that's her only.
00:33:09
>> Yes. Perfect in every other way. So we
00:33:12
always joked hopefully the kids get my
00:33:14
coordination and everything else uh
00:33:16
everything else about her. Um but yeah
00:33:19
she uh she's a lawyer um she was a
00:33:22
partner in at Belgali for uh I think she
00:33:25
was the youngest partner or one of the
00:33:27
youngest partners made up partner for 10
00:33:29
years
00:33:30
and uh but I always wanted to write and
00:33:34
so um with each child um when she took
00:33:38
uh don't say it's time off because it's
00:33:40
not like time off when you're maternity
00:33:42
leave but when she was wasn't working at
00:33:45
work and was working at home bringing
00:33:46
the bringing her kids up. She wrote a
00:33:49
screenplay with her sister. Um she wrote
00:33:51
a play. She wrote a ch a children's
00:33:53
book. And so she's always been quite
00:33:55
creative and uh always wanted to be a
00:33:57
writer. So when I got the job offer to
00:34:00
go to Vodafone um in London, she
00:34:03
resigned from her law firm and that was
00:34:06
going to be the time where she was going
00:34:07
to write um in Europe. And then that
00:34:09
changed, but she'd resigned from her
00:34:11
partnership. Um, and so we stayed in New
00:34:14
Zealand, but she started to started to
00:34:16
think about writing. But it was only
00:34:19
uh what it would have been kind of 18
00:34:22
months ago, two years ago now, that she
00:34:24
decided to commit to it and enrolled
00:34:26
herself at the um uh at Oakland
00:34:30
University on the M's creative writing
00:34:32
course. And uh she won the Phoenix Prize
00:34:35
um a year ago because the the new
00:34:37
Phoenix Prize winner was uh announced
00:34:39
last night. And then um her book got
00:34:43
picked up by Hashet um the global
00:34:45
publisher
00:34:46
>> and it goes on sale in April in the US,
00:34:49
the Australian and the New Zealand
00:34:51
market um next year. And also her book's
00:34:56
been picked up by Stampede as a Netflix
00:34:59
series.
00:35:00
>> So she's amazing. I know. Incredible.
00:35:02
What's um so it's a novel?
00:35:04
>> I joke that it's so she's writing about
00:35:07
all the ways that she's thought about
00:35:09
killing me.
00:35:12
>> So it's a psychological thriller.
00:35:14
>> Like a how-to guy.
00:35:15
>> It's a psychological thriller. Uh and um
00:35:19
I remember uh we're having a
00:35:21
conversation and she said to me, you
00:35:23
know, I could kill you and no one would
00:35:26
ever find out. And I was like, what?
00:35:29
What have I done? So, I've always say
00:35:30
publicly if I ever go missing or
00:35:33
something happens to me and they go,
00:35:34
"Well, that was a surprise." Look at Ra.
00:35:36
It wasn't a surprise. I've misstepped
00:35:38
too many times and uh I've been I've
00:35:40
been taken out.
00:35:41
>> Well, she won't be able to use anything
00:35:42
that's um that's in the book slash
00:35:44
Netflix series.
00:35:45
>> Exactly. So, look, I'm really I'm really
00:35:47
proud of her. I read a lot of that genre
00:35:50
and um
00:35:52
uh and I've read uh her script her her
00:35:55
book now probably 30 times and all its
00:35:57
different variations, etc. There was
00:35:59
only two days where she didn't talk to
00:36:00
me because of some of the feedback that
00:36:02
I uh I gave her. Cuz you know, you think
00:36:04
about you're pouring your heart and soul
00:36:06
out into it. And I've got a very limited
00:36:09
vocabulary. And so when I'm trying to
00:36:12
find words to describe how I can help
00:36:15
make the book better, sometimes I can be
00:36:18
a little less sophisticated than I would
00:36:19
like like to be. But um
00:36:22
>> you need GPT. Another sentence for it's
00:36:24
a bit [ __ ]
00:36:27
And so she's done a phenomenal job and
00:36:29
um the book is book is amazing and uh
00:36:32
yeah and uh and she's um it's a two-book
00:36:35
deal that she was uh signed up for. So
00:36:38
>> she's about I think 25% through um her
00:36:41
next her next book her next book now.
00:36:44
>> That's incredible. Yeah. Wow. It's
00:36:46
incredible. Yeah.
00:36:47
>> And a Yeah. And a and a a grad from
00:36:49
Harvard with a masters in law where she
00:36:51
graduated first. Her dissertation at at
00:36:54
Harvard was published in the Wall Street
00:36:55
Journal.
00:36:56
like uh you know she is she's a super
00:37:00
and an amazing mom, great friend. Like
00:37:03
I'm very privileged.
00:37:04
>> [ __ ] you're proud, aren't you?
00:37:07
>> Ah, so proud. Like seriously. And you
00:37:09
know and uh but I it's not everything
00:37:12
that she's doing and the kids are doing.
00:37:14
She's just uh an incredible human being.
00:37:16
She's just a special person
00:37:19
>> really. What makes her so?
00:37:22
>> Selfless.
00:37:24
>> Yeah. Her first thought was about
00:37:25
everyone else before herself. Not like
00:37:27
that's just, you know, dissimilar to my
00:37:28
mom actually.
00:37:30
>> Uh well, they they say you you marry
00:37:32
someone like your mother.
00:37:33
>> Yeah. Yeah. And um uh and her parents
00:37:36
are the same. Um Liz and Jock,
00:37:38
incredible people. Um you know, who were
00:37:42
amazing parents to her as well. And I
00:37:44
think that's the the values that they
00:37:45
instilled in all of um
00:37:47
>> all of the kids that they had. So uh
00:37:49
yeah,
00:37:50
>> super super impressive. and her her um
00:37:53
uh her brother's uh got a very
00:37:55
successful career in finance. Uh he's
00:37:58
got his own fund that uh he's raised
00:38:01
money for and lots of investors are
00:38:02
trusting him in. Um and then uh her
00:38:06
sister Bridget is the country manager of
00:38:08
Zero. So um very successful uh family.
00:38:11
They're all um high achievers but uh
00:38:14
fantastic people first.
00:38:16
>> Yeah. And yeah, you guys are um power
00:38:18
couple like both um both big jobs. So,
00:38:21
how do you Yeah. What's the um what's
00:38:23
the home calendar like? How have you got
00:38:25
like a whiteboard? Is it a blackboard?
00:38:26
Is it a just a like a Google calendar?
00:38:28
Like how do you how do you make things
00:38:30
work with your various commitments?
00:38:31
>> Yeah, it's pretty chaotic. I would say
00:38:33
both uh Ra and I would say that the
00:38:36
thing um that we sacrifice the most uh
00:38:40
is our own relationship even though it's
00:38:43
super strong and full of love. Uh and
00:38:47
also our uh prioritizing ourselves. So,
00:38:51
I'd definitely like to go to the gym a
00:38:53
little bit more or um you know spend
00:38:57
more me time, but um we prioritize our
00:39:01
kids um our work, our friends, our
00:39:06
family, and then we'll kind of get to us
00:39:09
and uh and ourselves when we can. And
00:39:12
often you you never get to them. I
00:39:15
>> I think that's the same for a lot of
00:39:17
people. Uh, so I'm not saying that we're
00:39:20
unusual in in any way, but it's
00:39:21
something we talk about because, you
00:39:23
know, when the kids leave home,
00:39:27
uh, we don't want to look at each other
00:39:28
and go, "Who the hell are you?"
00:39:30
>> That happens a lot.
00:39:31
>> Yeah. And so that's something you got to
00:39:33
actively work at, right? You want to
00:39:34
make sure that you continue to fall in
00:39:38
love with each other is you change
00:39:40
inevitably from when you when you first
00:39:42
when you first met.
00:39:44
>> So, um, we do. And uh and so I think
00:39:47
that it's healthy to kind of talk about
00:39:49
that and and make and make that time for
00:39:51
the relationship.
00:39:52
>> What what are your uh big arguments
00:39:54
about? Is it kid related or
00:39:57
you you she's a lawyer. You wouldn't
00:39:58
want to argue with her, right? You're
00:40:00
>> Yeah. No. No. There's
00:40:02
>> you know you're on a hiding to nothing.
00:40:03
>> Yeah. I'm just Yes. Yes, dear.
00:40:07
And uh Yeah. So like seriously, we don't
00:40:11
we don't have massive big arguments. So
00:40:13
I think probably the the the biggest
00:40:16
challenges that that we have um is how
00:40:20
do you ensure
00:40:22
um
00:40:24
it's probably more about actually the
00:40:26
the challenges of uh of kind of just
00:40:29
life and chaos and and busyness and
00:40:31
communication more than anything else. I
00:40:33
can be a bit useless and not telling her
00:40:35
what's happening when it's uh when it's
00:40:37
busy. And that's probably the biggest
00:40:38
thing.
00:40:39
>> Bro, I'm I'm exactly the same. uh you
00:40:42
know um you know when your kids in
00:40:44
particular boys get home from school and
00:40:45
it's hard to get more than a grunt or a
00:40:47
one or two word answer out of them. I'm
00:40:48
the same in relationships like if I'm
00:40:50
busy with other stuff it's the
00:40:51
communication the first thing that
00:40:52
lapses for me and I know it's a I know
00:40:54
it's a work on
00:40:55
>> it's hard though e
00:40:56
>> it is. Yeah. And also I'm sure I've told
00:40:58
her something and I and I haven't.
00:41:00
>> So that's the that's the biggest issue
00:41:02
and it was in my head. I just didn't uh
00:41:04
I just didn't say it.
00:41:06
>> You need to push harder. Gaslight her. I
00:41:08
definitely told you this. I definitely
00:41:09
told you. No, she's got a uh Yeah, she's
00:41:12
got a memory.
00:41:12
>> Yeah. Oh, that's great. So So um Yes. So
00:41:15
your son's 17 now?
00:41:16
>> Yeah. So uh Sam's 17, uh Oakland
00:41:19
grammar. Um great kid. Uh Will's 13
00:41:23
again. Fantastic kid. He's in um in
00:41:27
third form Oakland grammar. And then uh
00:41:30
our daughter in year six going into year
00:41:31
seven.
00:41:32
>> Bum bum bum. You know, so they're
00:41:34
>> they're growing up growing up fast. But
00:41:36
um yeah uh I really I'm really really
00:41:39
proud of them. Good manners, good
00:41:41
values. Uh and all we say to them is be
00:41:44
the best you can be. All I care about is
00:41:47
the effort effort mark. The outcome will
00:41:50
be what it will be and they'll find what
00:41:52
they love at some point in time. And who
00:41:54
knew what they wanted to be or very few
00:41:56
people at 17 or 13 or or 11. I just want
00:41:59
them to try lots of things and be good
00:42:01
people and open doors and have good
00:42:03
manners and
00:42:04
>> and uh and give it their best and and uh
00:42:07
and if they do that, I'm sure it'll work
00:42:08
out fine.
00:42:09
>> Yeah, that's bloody great.
00:42:10
>> Oh, well done. That's cool. You've got a
00:42:13
few more years before you're an empty
00:42:14
neester.
00:42:15
>> Yeah, we we have. Yeah.
00:42:16
>> I thought it'd be exciting having one of
00:42:18
your kids leave home, especially if
00:42:19
there's a couple of backups.
00:42:20
>> No, I'm going to be You're going to be
00:42:22
an emotional mess.
00:42:23
>> I'm going to be a mess. It will be
00:42:25
>> horrific. Really? Why? Oh, I just love
00:42:28
them so much. And I just
00:42:30
>> seriously uh I just I and I when Sam uh
00:42:35
turned 17,
00:42:38
>> uh I told him a story uh of when he was
00:42:40
born, the day he was born, I don't know,
00:42:43
but I got a cab ride back from the um
00:42:45
hospital and uh the cab driver could see
00:42:48
that I was really chuffed. And uh he
00:42:51
said, "What are you smiling about?" And
00:42:52
I said, "I've had my first son, first
00:42:54
child." And he's a boy. and he said,
00:42:55
"Oh, funnily enough, it's my son's
00:42:57
birthday this weekend and he's 21." And
00:42:59
he said, "Can I just tell you it gets
00:43:01
better and better and better?" And I
00:43:03
said to Sam, "It does." Like, I didn't
00:43:05
want you to grow up when you were three
00:43:06
and when you were seven and when you
00:43:08
were 10 and when I when you were 13. I
00:43:10
was like, "Nothing's going to be better
00:43:11
than this." But it does. And so just so
00:43:16
proud of having my relationship with him
00:43:18
and the kids. It's special.
00:43:20
>> Yeah. You haven't obviously gone through
00:43:21
the mount difficulty phase yet of the
00:43:23
there's got that's got to come.
00:43:25
>> No. Yeah. Like not at all. Like you know
00:43:27
of course they always misstep and they
00:43:29
do naughty things and they've
00:43:31
>> pushing boundaries.
00:43:32
>> Pushing boundaries or I've found them
00:43:34
they've you know snuck out the bedroom
00:43:35
window to see their friends and
00:43:37
>> vape in the school bag.
00:43:38
>> All that. None of them have vape
00:43:40
>> really. Well done.
00:43:41
>> Yeah. I used to work for Smokefree way
00:43:43
back uh when I was at when I was at
00:43:45
school kind of advocating. uh my grandma
00:43:48
um she passed away of um emphymia
00:43:51
emphyma whatever it is
00:43:53
>> and um so I've uh yeah but so uh I've
00:43:56
kind of installed that installed that
00:43:58
into them
00:43:58
>> uh their probably biggest issue is um
00:44:00
addiction to devices which
00:44:02
>> you know as being in the industry I'm in
00:44:05
um it's a it's a challenge I'm trying to
00:44:07
navigate through at home as as well as
00:44:08
for the industry. Oh, it's it it's
00:44:11
tough. Like, um I I've stopped looking
00:44:13
at my screen time, my weekly screen
00:44:15
time, because it's alarming.
00:44:16
>> It is.
00:44:17
>> And you can justify so much of it as um
00:44:18
working. Like I'm working. It's a it's a
00:44:20
work tool. But no, a lot of it is a lot
00:44:22
of it is mindless scrolling.
00:44:24
>> No. Yeah. And I find that myself, you
00:44:25
know, I I'm going, okay, I've just uh
00:44:28
you know, I just wind down and look at a
00:44:30
couple of things on Instagram and it's
00:44:32
9:45 and then all of a sudden it's
00:44:34
11:00. I just lost an hour looking at
00:44:38
funny pet videos and like what the hell
00:44:43
where did that where did that go? And
00:44:44
you can see you know hopefully my brain
00:44:46
is a bit more developed than a
00:44:48
13-year-old or a 17y old but yeah you
00:44:50
can see uh that you know
00:44:53
>> they are developed to keep you
00:44:55
>> oh they're addictive. Yeah it's
00:44:58
>> I heard a podcast that's saying it's um
00:44:59
sort of yeah the screen and the way it
00:45:01
looks and feels and sounds is based on
00:45:03
like slot machines.
00:45:04
>> Yes. Yes. Um, yeah. Yeah. But and the
00:45:06
the meta algorithms are so good. Like I
00:45:08
get to see so many videos of dogs that
00:45:10
look like mine.
00:45:12
>> An hour is nothing, mate.
00:45:14
>> I know. It It feels like it it's always
00:45:16
listening to you as well, right? Like,
00:45:17
and I just like all of a sudden, you
00:45:20
know, um uh I turned 50 and I'm getting
00:45:24
uh you know, gut health bloating
00:45:28
50-year-old ads on social media and I'm
00:45:31
like, are you trying to tell me
00:45:33
something here? you know, whatever it
00:45:35
is. So,
00:45:35
>> oh, magnesium supplements for me. Yeah.
00:45:37
Yeah. It's good though. It's helpful. It
00:45:39
is.
00:45:39
>> Um, hey, let's talk about your career,
00:45:40
the career stuff. So, um, so you left
00:45:44
school, you went to university for 3
00:45:45
months.
00:45:46
>> So,
00:45:47
>> what happened there?
00:45:48
>> So, applied for teacher training college
00:45:50
and, uh, got rejected and then, um, came
00:45:54
back from a south and rugby trip, uh,
00:45:57
and then went to, um, Trust Bank
00:46:00
Southland and but I
00:46:04
always thought that I would want to go
00:46:06
to university because I had a a view in
00:46:09
my head that um if you wanted to get a
00:46:12
big job um whatever the industry was and
00:46:15
I wasn't too sure that you needed to
00:46:17
have a a degree and so was basically
00:46:20
saving money up to uh not take up I took
00:46:24
take on too much debt when I go to go to
00:46:26
university and I my best mate is um uh
00:46:31
was actually a year younger
00:46:33
uh than me and and then my other best
00:46:35
mate was two years uh two years younger
00:46:38
than me and so we were uh thinking about
00:46:41
all going together and so uh we all
00:46:44
worked um for a period of time in in
00:46:47
Chicago before we went to kind of
00:46:48
university in the same in the same year.
00:46:51
>> Uh I was um
00:46:56
the year before I went to university I
00:46:58
took a job that was paying more than the
00:47:00
bank in radio sales. So I uh started
00:47:03
being a radio sales sales guy and um
00:47:07
then left to go to university and then
00:47:10
three months after uh I was at
00:47:12
university the radio station manager
00:47:15
turned up at my flat and said hey um
00:47:18
we've missed you uh we'll double your
00:47:21
salary and if you come back so um I
00:47:25
called I was doing a double major in
00:47:27
marketing and information science back
00:47:29
then like technology and I remember I
00:47:32
called the careers advisor um at the
00:47:34
Atago University and I said, "Hey, look,
00:47:36
I've just got this job offer, but I'm
00:47:39
really enjoying this information science
00:47:41
thing." And I remember she said to me,
00:47:43
"There's no money in tech. Take the
00:47:44
job." So, uh I took the job and uh the
00:47:48
rest is history. And that kind of that
00:47:50
that created uh I suppose my set me on
00:47:54
my career of kind of sales and
00:47:56
marketing. So people come through the
00:47:59
ranks you know in finance or operations
00:48:02
um uh my my my background is in has been
00:48:06
in sales and marketing. So I just
00:48:08
progressively moved from Invagle
00:48:11
uh to Wellington uh and then to uh
00:48:14
Oakland after I met my uh after I met Ra
00:48:18
>> and uh have been kind of a sales and
00:48:20
marketing background ever since.
00:48:21
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I suppose once you get
00:48:22
that um that opportunity and you start
00:48:24
getting a bit of career momentum like
00:48:25
the degree thing becomes less and less
00:48:27
important. But like if you look at jobs
00:48:29
now on say Casil or whatever like most
00:48:31
of them say you know the you know entry
00:48:34
level requirement is a is a degree and
00:48:36
whatever it happens to be. So how did
00:48:38
you get like the um marketing manager
00:48:40
job at McDonald's without a degree?
00:48:42
>> Uh I just applied for it.
00:48:43
>> Yeah. They didn't they didn't ask they
00:48:44
just assumed.
00:48:45
>> No. So it actually wasn't a requirement
00:48:47
to be honest and um my boss now uh well
00:48:51
my boss back then and Suckloff's another
00:48:53
good mate good mate of mine and kind of
00:48:56
uh I I my view is once you get the
00:48:59
interview once you get the foot in the
00:49:00
door
00:49:02
>> um
00:49:04
uh the qualifications don't necessarily
00:49:06
really really matter um
00:49:08
>> in my view unless you're a doctor you
00:49:10
know you got something who's a who's a
00:49:12
who's a specialist.
00:49:12
>> This guy's got a good attitude. Yeah.
00:49:14
Yeah.
00:49:14
>> You can do my brain operation,
00:49:16
>> but uh when you're coming through the
00:49:17
ranks of sales and marketing and he just
00:49:19
took a he could took a chance on me at
00:49:21
crack
00:49:21
>> and that was my kind of first big
00:49:23
marketing role was um was at McDonald's
00:49:26
up until then. um uh I was kind of a
00:49:29
sales and marketer and um and so yeah,
00:49:32
he uh he took my he took his first big
00:49:34
first big punt and then
00:49:39
it started it wasn't really McDonald's
00:49:41
role but the Nokia role, the TV and Zed
00:49:45
role, the media media works role, the
00:49:48
telecom role,
00:49:51
uh even um possibly the uh the Vodafone
00:49:56
role.
00:49:58
having a degree never came up. I think
00:50:01
people probably just assumed
00:50:04
>> or it gets to the point where you've got
00:50:05
so much experience it just doesn't
00:50:06
matter.
00:50:07
>> Doesn't matter. But the I did have a
00:50:09
chip on my shoulder about it. Uh and
00:50:12
when I was at TBNZ, my boss Rick Ellis,
00:50:16
>> I talked to him about it openly and um
00:50:20
he said, "Shit, I didn't know that you
00:50:23
didn't have a degree." And he said, "I
00:50:24
never would have thought um you know,
00:50:27
you're smart, you're articulate, you can
00:50:29
you know, you're structured in the way
00:50:31
that you think and and uh and write,
00:50:34
>> but that's was created basically on four
00:50:37
years of work experience while others
00:50:38
had four years of structured structured
00:50:40
learning." And so, as we just said
00:50:42
before, like Rachel and I are the
00:50:44
complete opposite ends of the education
00:50:46
spectrum, masters from Harvard, no
00:50:50
university degree. So, uh, TV and Zed
00:50:53
and Rick funded me to do a business
00:50:55
course at at Harvard. I think it was in
00:50:58
2008.
00:51:00
And, um, I went across there and there
00:51:03
were people from all around the world.
00:51:06
And within 24 hours, I was like, I'm as
00:51:10
good as them. Like, I can have
00:51:13
conversations about the case studies. I
00:51:15
can get the uh the concepts of the
00:51:18
models. I can uh debate uh with them. I
00:51:22
can ideate.
00:51:23
And that was a it was a really big um
00:51:27
psychological moment for me in my career
00:51:30
whether I realized
00:51:33
um that I didn't have that I wasn't
00:51:36
smart. You know, I didn't have an issue
00:51:38
with not being smart enough to
00:51:41
>> be able to um you know, be the CEO of a
00:51:44
of of an organ of an organization. And
00:51:46
so,
00:51:48
uh, it was probably an impediment or a
00:51:50
hurdle that I was putting on myself
00:51:52
versus others were putting on me at at
00:51:54
that at that point in time. And, um, it
00:51:57
never it never really never really came
00:51:58
up from that from that point because, as
00:52:00
you said, your experience, your track
00:52:02
record, New Zealand's a village. People
00:52:05
know what you're doing, good or bad,
00:52:08
every day. Um, and if your track record
00:52:10
is is good and and you're doing what you
00:52:12
said you'd do and you're showing up
00:52:14
well, then then opportunities open up
00:52:16
for you.
00:52:16
>> Yeah, 100%. Um, yeah. Do you think are
00:52:19
you familiar with imposter syndrome?
00:52:21
>> Yes.
00:52:21
>> Yeah. Do you feel like um you were sort
00:52:24
of experiencing that when you went to
00:52:25
see Rick Ellis?
00:52:26
>> Oh, absolutely.
00:52:27
>> A degree of that.
00:52:28
>> And I think it's still there's still a
00:52:30
degree of that in me now. I'm still
00:52:32
waiting for Yeah. I still seriously I I
00:52:36
would say
00:52:38
uh at least every month if not every
00:52:40
week I go, "How the hell did someone
00:52:43
like me get here?" Like, it's just
00:52:46
bizarre. I'm waiting for someone to tap
00:52:48
me on the shoulder and go, "How the hell
00:52:49
did you get here?" And I'll go, "I know.
00:52:51
I know. Yeah. Yeah. Games up. Uh
00:52:54
>> you got me.
00:52:55
>> You got me." Uh I I just genuinely
00:52:58
uh cannot believe how lucky I am that uh
00:53:04
and that's every job like you know I
00:53:05
said I giving me the crack at McDonald's
00:53:07
Mari giving me the crack at uh Trust
00:53:10
Bank Southland
00:53:12
>> um the radio station manager picking me
00:53:15
back out of uh out of university. Um
00:53:18
Rick Ellis uh just you know grabbing me
00:53:21
out of London and then sending me to
00:53:23
Harvard.
00:53:25
um Simon Mutter uh giving me the
00:53:28
opportunity to do the telecom to Spark,
00:53:30
run twothirds of their of their of their
00:53:32
business. Like it's just it's absolutely
00:53:35
incredible uh that these people have.
00:53:38
>> Yeah.
00:53:39
>> Um given me the given me the
00:53:41
opportunities that uh that they have and
00:53:44
you don't want to let them down. Uh
00:53:46
yeah. And I've you know that I think
00:53:48
I've got the imposter syndrome as a dad,
00:53:51
you know, never going to be good enough.
00:53:52
I've got the imposter syndrome is um um
00:53:55
as part of the team as well that you're
00:53:57
never going to be good enough and that
00:53:59
drives me.
00:54:01
>> I think it's quite um it shouldn't be
00:54:02
but I think it's quite brave or
00:54:03
courageous of you to to admit that
00:54:05
because um
00:54:06
>> imposter syndrome or
00:54:08
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean I feel like
00:54:10
there's a degree of um you know, you're
00:54:12
supposed to have people talk about fake
00:54:14
it till you make it. um you know um but
00:54:18
I think I think most of us I've had
00:54:19
heaps of All Blacks on the podcast and
00:54:21
they all admit the same thing like the
00:54:22
first day they turned up you know so
00:54:24
they'll have a killer super season or
00:54:25
whatever and then turn up to the all
00:54:26
black training they'll be like [ __ ] I
00:54:27
don't belong here um I think it's it's
00:54:29
really refreshing to admit that
00:54:31
>> especially six years under the desk
00:54:33
>> it's it's true you know uh and and
00:54:36
hopefully you can use it as a driver
00:54:38
>> um versus
00:54:41
uh yeah versus feeling uncertain.
00:54:45
So, uh,
00:54:47
yeah, but it's it's there. It's there
00:54:49
every day. I just I just go, "How the
00:54:51
hell did this happen?" Uh, and how do I,
00:54:55
uh, you know, work hard enough to make
00:54:57
sure that the music doesn't stop?
00:54:59
>> Is that exhausting?
00:55:01
>> Uh, yeah. Like the CEO roles are
00:55:04
actually any industry. Like it's they're
00:55:07
tiring. They're 20 24/7. and and I've
00:55:10
purposefully decided that my role as a
00:55:13
CEO is a 24/7 role because I want to be
00:55:16
as accessible to as many people as
00:55:18
possible on every social media platform,
00:55:21
too. You know, I every conversation I
00:55:24
have with anyone, I always give them out
00:55:26
my personal email address and I tell
00:55:28
them that I'm your personal account
00:55:30
manager and I'm your personal account
00:55:32
manager, too, Dom. And um uh because
00:55:36
uh I want them to know that I take the
00:55:39
role that we play in their lives really
00:55:41
really seriously. One,
00:55:42
>> two, it's the best way for me to know
00:55:44
what's happening in the business, good
00:55:45
and bad.
00:55:47
>> Um and uh and three, I think it's my
00:55:50
job. Like everyone in the organization
00:55:52
should be the the best sales and service
00:55:53
person that they that they can be. But
00:55:55
that means, you know, Friday nights,
00:55:58
Saturdays, Sundays, I'll be checking my
00:56:01
phone because if I get an email, it
00:56:03
means the shit's at the fan. A customer
00:56:05
has a massive issue in their business or
00:56:07
in their life for them at that point in
00:56:09
time and um they've tried as much as
00:56:12
they possibly can and uh and they
00:56:14
haven't got what they needed to and so I
00:56:15
I'm in a position to be able to help.
00:56:17
Yeah, you're you're very active on
00:56:18
LinkedIn and I've seen um like a couple
00:56:21
of comments where there's been you've
00:56:23
put up a post about something completely
00:56:24
unrelated and someone will write a
00:56:26
comment bitching about some data issue
00:56:28
or whatever it happens to be and then
00:56:29
you'll respond with your email address.
00:56:31
So, how does your email work? Does it
00:56:33
get directed to a PA and then they
00:56:35
>> go straightly to me?
00:56:37
>> So, I read every single apart from if
00:56:39
I'm on holiday um I'll read every single
00:56:42
email that uh that comes through. I'll
00:56:45
respond to every single email
00:56:47
personally, but then uh I have a team of
00:56:51
about four or five people that don't
00:56:52
just support me. They triage the most
00:56:55
gnarly uh issues that come through the
00:56:57
business. Uh some of which come to me
00:57:00
and then they will account manage them
00:57:01
in to make sure that they get they get
00:57:03
fixed because New Zealanders are good
00:57:05
good people. Um, and if when it gets to
00:57:08
me, we've normally, you know, pissed
00:57:10
them off to a point where it's the last
00:57:12
straw
00:57:12
>> and they're going, "You need to know
00:57:14
what's happening in your organization."
00:57:16
So, uh, I'll send, uh, three emails out
00:57:20
to our customer base a year. I have done
00:57:22
that since I started. Uh, I used to get
00:57:26
about a thousand emails back. I'd read
00:57:29
all of them um within 24 hours, respond
00:57:32
within 48 hours and then this team would
00:57:36
help fix them and um and address them.
00:57:39
That that email volume's at least halves
00:57:42
now. So um I always put my personal
00:57:44
email address at the bottom. Always say
00:57:47
if you got anything that I can help
00:57:48
with, let me know. Uh so I'll probably
00:57:51
get 500 emails. I would say half of them
00:57:53
are now compliments. they would go, "You
00:57:55
know what? You're doing a much better
00:57:57
job than you were. Well done." Uh, and
00:58:00
then the other half are, "Actually,
00:58:01
you're still doing a pretty shitty job.
00:58:02
I need you to fix need you to fix this."
00:58:05
Um, but again, you know, it's a it's a
00:58:08
it's a calculated investment because I
00:58:10
know I've talked to thousands of our
00:58:13
customers over a year. And so I know
00:58:17
pretty well what is going on in our
00:58:19
business and where we're up to scratch
00:58:21
and where and where we're not and what
00:58:23
we need to focus on and uh and do. So
00:58:26
it's a it's a it's an investment that um
00:58:29
that is a really smart one because it's
00:58:31
the only way that you know what's really
00:58:32
happening in your business is by talking
00:58:34
to as many customers as you as you can.
00:58:36
>> Yeah. And that's a very um conscious and
00:58:38
deliberate decision I guess to be a
00:58:40
visible CEO.
00:58:41
>> Yeah.
00:58:42
>> Um where did that stem from? Did you get
00:58:44
the idea from anyone else or the
00:58:45
inspiration or is this just you as a
00:58:46
person?
00:58:47
>> No, it's just me like you know just um I
00:58:49
like people get my energy from them. Uh
00:58:53
I like yeah I you know I like uh hearing
00:58:57
from our customers. It it helps us make
00:58:59
decisions, helps me drive change through
00:59:01
the organization.
00:59:03
Uh I feel like if I uh if I engage and I
00:59:08
can acknowledge and say sorry if a
00:59:11
customer and there are very few of them
00:59:13
now that's a dick. I can call them out
00:59:15
too and go you know what disagree with
00:59:17
that. I think you're being unfair when
00:59:20
you have a crack at a team member or
00:59:22
where you're criticizing us in this in
00:59:23
this way. I can only to honest I can
00:59:26
only think of a handful of times where
00:59:27
I've had to do that and stick up stick
00:59:29
up for my team. But I think um you know
00:59:32
by being visible and uh and apologizing
00:59:34
and getting some things sorted also
00:59:37
gives you permission to draw a line in
00:59:38
the sand and go well no hold a minute
00:59:41
don't agree with that don't agree with
00:59:42
your pos your posture or your position
00:59:44
or your criticism of us and and sorry
00:59:46
but uh you know we won't be moving
00:59:48
forward on that one so that's fine too.
00:59:50
Yeah. Well, a lot a lot of the time
00:59:51
people just want to be heard, don't
00:59:52
they?
00:59:53
>> They do.
00:59:54
>> Yeah.
00:59:54
>> Yeah. But um Oh, no. Good. Good for
00:59:57
doing that. Oh, there was a thing on
00:59:58
your LinkedIn a couple of weeks ago as
00:59:59
well about you um u making a very public
01:00:01
stand. Um what happened? You banned
01:00:04
banned a couple of customers from one of
01:00:05
your stores. What happened there?
01:00:06
>> Yeah. So, this has been a problem that's
01:00:08
been growing in retail for uh all
01:00:12
industries for quite some time. So, you
01:00:14
know, everyone will be famili familiar
01:00:15
with the smash and grabs at Michael Hill
01:00:18
jewelers, you know, the ram raids and
01:00:20
that kind of stuff. And
01:00:23
uh, man, that's a terrifying, horrific
01:00:27
experience.
01:00:29
And can I, as I said on LinkedIn a few a
01:00:32
few weeks ago, these are
01:00:35
grandmothers, grandfathers, uncles,
01:00:38
aunties, moms, dads, sons, daughters,
01:00:41
cousins, friends.
01:00:44
New Zealanders just like you or me
01:00:47
>> trying to do a job to help people that
01:00:49
do not need to put up with that type of
01:00:52
crap. All right. Um, now we're lucky
01:00:55
that the RAM raids that have impacted
01:00:57
our retail stores have been at night.
01:01:00
Um, people come in. What they don't know
01:01:02
is that all of our devices in a safe
01:01:04
they can't get to. And they think that
01:01:05
the devices that are in our retail
01:01:07
stores will work. They're not. They're
01:01:09
dummy devices, right? You can use them,
01:01:11
but you disconnect them. They're dummy
01:01:13
devices. You can't put a SIM card into
01:01:14
them. You can't use them. Um, so when
01:01:17
they do RAM raid, they don't there's
01:01:19
nothing of value that they they take.
01:01:21
But in this instance, um, you know,
01:01:24
society is getting more problematic.
01:01:26
We've got people coming into our retail
01:01:28
stores trying to intimidate, being
01:01:30
aggressive, swearing. Now, I know
01:01:32
they're stressed. It's tough economic
01:01:35
times. We've come through co, come
01:01:36
through a recession,
01:01:38
all that kind of stuff, but it's just
01:01:40
um, but everyone's dealing with issues
01:01:44
in their life, and you can't take it out
01:01:46
on our on our people. And so, um, this
01:01:49
was an instance where someone was
01:01:51
changing, uh, over a phone and they had
01:01:55
forgotten their Apple ID. It's not our
01:01:57
job to change over their phone for them,
01:01:59
but our our, um, uh, our salesperson was
01:02:04
doing them a favor by trying to help
01:02:06
them migrate all their photos and data,
01:02:08
but you need your Apple ID
01:02:10
>> to be able to make it happen. And they'd
01:02:11
forgotten it
01:02:13
>> and it wasn't working. And so they lost
01:02:15
it
01:02:16
>> and was punching them and beating them
01:02:18
up. And then someone else came in and
01:02:20
they took a swing at them and then they
01:02:21
were abusing people and etc. And um and
01:02:26
one of them had to go to hospital and
01:02:28
just I was just pissed off. I was like
01:02:29
this is not good enough. It's
01:02:30
unacceptable.
01:02:32
And so we've just we've kicked them off
01:02:34
the network and they'll never be allowed
01:02:36
back. And um that's a big move right
01:02:40
that we'd take in very rare instances.
01:02:43
But I'm sorry if uh if that's what
01:02:45
you're going to do, then we don't want
01:02:47
you part of our um part of the team.
01:02:50
>> So uh yeah, so they will never be a one
01:02:54
New Zealand customer uh ever ever again
01:02:57
and um they can find another telco to uh
01:02:59
to connect with.
01:03:01
>> Yeah. To me that doesn't that doesn't
01:03:02
feel like a huge move. Like that's
01:03:04
outrageous behavior. Like it's
01:03:06
incredibly poor form. Like how how
01:03:08
traumatic for the staff members
01:03:09
involved.
01:03:10
>> Oh, massively. And and actually I think
01:03:12
you know when we're supporting them and
01:03:14
I I talked to them on the day and then
01:03:16
um the week after
01:03:18
>> uh but you just don't know how you're
01:03:19
going to feel and uh and and then they
01:03:22
came back into store and of course
01:03:23
they're feeling a bit of apprehensive
01:03:24
because no one expects someone to take a
01:03:27
swing at you or try to beat the [ __ ] out
01:03:29
of you when you're trying to help them.
01:03:30
>> No.
01:03:31
>> And that happened and and uh it was un
01:03:33
like it was they didn't couldn't predict
01:03:35
it. this person was clearly like up
01:03:37
until that point was getting agitated
01:03:40
and frustrated but frustrated about the
01:03:41
device not at them and then lost it. Uh
01:03:44
and so who's next? they'll be they'll be
01:03:46
thinking so you know um it is it is rare
01:03:51
but uh yeah I just wanted to draw a line
01:03:54
on the sand and say it's unacceptable
01:03:55
and and this type of behavior increases
01:03:57
over Christmas which is why I did it I I
01:03:59
you know sent a timely reminder now
01:04:01
>> as people get stressed uh over that kind
01:04:04
of busy Christmas and New Year period
01:04:06
just remember that everyone's just
01:04:07
trying to do a job they're trying to
01:04:09
navigate through life they're trying to
01:04:10
help you and support you and they don't
01:04:12
deserve um you know you taking your
01:04:15
anger out on Yeah, good on you.
01:04:16
>> Yeah.
01:04:17
>> Um and why the rebrand? The rebrand from
01:04:20
um Vodafone to one NZ.
01:04:22
>> Yeah, a bunch of reasons. Um first one
01:04:24
is uh it's a brand that we didn't own
01:04:27
Vodafone and we were paying tens of
01:04:29
millions of dollars overseas for and
01:04:32
that money is better re being reinvested
01:04:34
back into into New Zealand. Um the
01:04:37
majority of that money is being
01:04:38
reinvested into SpaceX into our
01:04:41
partnership with them and that'll be a
01:04:42
gamecher you know um getting your uh
01:04:46
backup connectivity from space uh
01:04:48
instead of on the ground in in New
01:04:50
Zealand. So that's one uh two uh look
01:04:55
the the Vodafone brand in New Zealand
01:04:58
started off with a hiss and a roar. It
01:05:00
was the leader in mobility. And then
01:05:02
when I started six years ago, man, I
01:05:05
used to get a lot of crap at barbecues.
01:05:07
People would go, "Your service isn't
01:05:09
great. I've had a really shitty
01:05:10
experience. I couldn't recommend you."
01:05:12
And New Zealanders have got long
01:05:13
memories. And so over the next kind of
01:05:16
three or four years, so up until two
01:05:18
years ago, we'd invested so much in our
01:05:20
network and our and you know, the best
01:05:22
network in the country, our service,
01:05:25
we'd back ourselves to have the best
01:05:26
service results in the country. People
01:05:28
have long memories. Um, but I remembered
01:05:31
from the Spark Telecom to Spark change,
01:05:34
New Zealanders will give you another
01:05:35
chance, especially if you do a bit of a
01:05:38
rebrand. They'll go, oh, maybe something
01:05:40
is different there. And so the rebrand
01:05:42
was also a reconsideration moment. So
01:05:44
people to go, give us another give us
01:05:47
another try. And so, uh, we did it a
01:05:50
rebrand to have a bit of a refresh
01:05:51
there. And then the third thing is we
01:05:54
felt that in terms of a position
01:05:57
uh we felt that there was a an
01:05:59
opportunity for a New Zealand telco to
01:06:02
stand more for this country and more for
01:06:04
New Zealand than any other. So um two
01:06:08
degrees is trying to stand for price.
01:06:11
Spark I think was standing for kind of
01:06:13
partnerships like Spotify and we wanted
01:06:15
to stand for the best of New Zealand and
01:06:17
we felt that there was a kind of a brand
01:06:19
positioning. So saving money that can be
01:06:21
re reinvested, a reconsideration moment,
01:06:25
so convince people to give us a second
01:06:27
go. Um and then that and then that
01:06:29
positioning. So those were the three
01:06:31
three big reasons and thankfully uh the
01:06:35
team did a much better job of my telecom
01:06:38
to Spark uh project and and and all
01:06:41
three of them have paid off. Not that
01:06:43
the telecom to Spark one didn't.
01:06:44
>> Yeah, I was going to say that was that
01:06:45
was fine, wasn't it?
01:06:46
>> Yeah, it was good. just it takes a while
01:06:47
for these names to wash out, but
01:06:49
eventually you just forget about it.
01:06:50
>> And look, ultimately, you're right, it's
01:06:52
not the name, it's the actions.
01:06:54
>> So, as long as you don't completely
01:06:56
screw up the name choice,
01:06:58
>> it's really the actions that you take.
01:07:00
>> What other names were on the short list?
01:07:02
>> Well, my favorite uh the one that I was
01:07:05
advocating for, they did they dismissed.
01:07:07
I I really liked Spirit, but uh it got
01:07:11
dismissed because Spirit of New Zealand
01:07:13
uh the boat, you know, and a good mate
01:07:15
of mine, Bruce, runs that. And I would
01:07:17
have had a conversation and go, "Hey,
01:07:18
thought about doing a partnership with a
01:07:20
with a telco."
01:07:21
>> Um
01:07:23
yeah, and so there were five names. Um I
01:07:25
can't remember the others and uh and
01:07:28
that was the one that the team went
01:07:29
with.
01:07:29
>> And then it just it just goes,
01:07:32
>> as I said, it's really not the name.
01:07:33
It's is your network good, is your
01:07:36
service good, is your pricing good, have
01:07:38
you got good people, have you got good
01:07:40
partnerships? Uh, and if you nail those
01:07:42
things, that's more important than the
01:07:44
name.
01:07:44
>> Yeah. And and names names of um brands
01:07:46
always sound weird in the beginning. Um,
01:07:48
yeah, I remember I was at Media Works
01:07:50
when um, uh, Mark Welen, who was the
01:07:52
CEO, turned the news into Newshub. Yeah.
01:07:54
>> And everyone was like, Newshub, what it
01:07:56
looks like Pornhub, what is it? But
01:07:57
after a while, it just becomes a a
01:07:59
thing. Yeah.
01:07:59
>> You guys did, I think, a good job of
01:08:01
this. um or your team didn't and they
01:08:03
got you involved with it. Um a Tik Tok
01:08:05
uh where you're reading out messages um
01:08:07
just basically people [ __ ] you mean
01:08:09
tweets [ __ ] on the name cuz Kiwis
01:08:12
love that self-deprecating sort of
01:08:13
humor, right?
01:08:14
>> Yeah, that was an embarrassing like my
01:08:16
kids were like, "Oh my dad, you're so
01:08:18
cringe, you know." Um cuz I think uh
01:08:23
they one of them was something about 42
01:08:27
and they were like and they were pissed
01:08:29
themselves cuz I didn't realize that uh
01:08:31
420 was the name for a drug or whatever
01:08:32
it is. And so yeah, so there was lots of
01:08:35
things that not only uh were funny
01:08:38
because people were taking the piss
01:08:40
about the name, but it also funny
01:08:41
because uh it showed my naivity in a
01:08:43
whole bunch of areas.
01:08:44
>> And well, you mentioned um the um SpaceX
01:08:47
thing before. Is that that that's the
01:08:49
same as the um the Starlink thing?
01:08:50
>> Yeah. So, how did that come about?
01:08:53
>> By the way, as as a trail runner, this
01:08:54
is so exciting.
01:08:55
>> Yeah. No, it is. So, uh we've been
01:08:58
working with um with Starlink broadband
01:09:01
for quite some time. So, and it really
01:09:04
came into its own off the back of
01:09:06
Cyclone Gabriel because we could uh when
01:09:10
power was out, um when fiber was out, we
01:09:15
could deploy the Starlink broadband
01:09:19
satellite dishes. We did it for the New
01:09:21
Zealand Defense Force. We did it for the
01:09:23
airports where we could get Wi-Fi
01:09:25
connectivity connected to a generator
01:09:28
because when you lose connectivity,
01:09:31
it's your lifeline. You can't tell
01:09:33
people that you need help. You can't
01:09:34
tell people that you're safe. You can't
01:09:36
tell them where you are and you massive
01:09:40
anxiety for people that love you and
01:09:43
also the people that you love. M
01:09:45
>> and so uh I talked to the team about um
01:09:50
SpaceX's
01:09:51
Starlink to mobile service and so uh how
01:09:56
was that progressing and we'd had a
01:09:58
conversation with them but the price
01:10:00
that they'd quoted us was
01:10:04
massive way like so expensive there was
01:10:07
no way that we could afford it and so I
01:10:10
decided that I'd like to have a crack at
01:10:12
convincing them that they should give us
01:10:14
a better deal. And so we basically did a
01:10:17
pitch to them and said, "Look,
01:10:20
60 million sheep, five million people.
01:10:23
Uh it's the same population as Alabama
01:10:25
and the US. Um you know, we're a rugged
01:10:29
country of explorers. We're the perfect
01:10:31
test case for this technology. We're
01:10:34
fast adopters of technology. We've got a
01:10:38
partnership with you on Starlink
01:10:39
broadband.
01:10:41
Uh we've just had a massive cyclone uh
01:10:45
that's devastated parts of the country.
01:10:47
We had floods in our major city. This is
01:10:50
going to be a lifecher. Um 40% of um
01:10:54
Alteora doesn't have coverage. Uh we
01:10:57
love fishing.
01:10:59
You know, uh we'd love to partner with
01:11:02
you. We're really bloody easy. Um and so
01:11:06
we pitched to them and uh and they said
01:11:08
yes. And so we signed the deal. Uh and
01:11:14
it happened so quickly actually that um
01:11:17
it was only about a month before we were
01:11:20
changing from Vodafone to one. And so
01:11:24
the team decided to make it as part of
01:11:26
the kind of launch day at the at the
01:11:29
kind of last last minute. And um uh
01:11:33
yeah, we announced it at the same time
01:11:34
as a good example of the money that we
01:11:36
were saving by rebranding being invested
01:11:39
back into into New Zealand. And you
01:11:41
know, you asked me before about proud
01:11:45
moments in my career. This is probably
01:11:48
going to be
01:11:50
up there if not the number one just
01:11:53
because if we can help save one life
01:11:56
through this technology, it'll be uh
01:11:58
it'll be worth it. And um it's amazing,
01:12:02
you know, uh we're doing all the all the
01:12:04
testing now, but uh you have a a a
01:12:08
smartphone, compatible smartphone in
01:12:09
your pocket. Uh and what compatible
01:12:12
means is why we're doing all the
01:12:14
testing. Um and you're you can see the
01:12:17
sky.
01:12:19
uh then you'll be able to uh get a
01:12:23
connection with the satellite traveling
01:12:26
500 km above you in space
01:12:30
uh traveling at 27,000 km an hour in
01:12:33
sequence in a constellation with others
01:12:37
first by text um and that's when we have
01:12:40
about 300 satellites up that uh you'll
01:12:43
be able to do text service. We need over
01:12:45
a thousand before you can do voice
01:12:47
service. And then no matter where you
01:12:50
are in New Zealand, you'll have coverage
01:12:53
because of satellites in the uh in space
01:12:57
as long as you can see the see the sky
01:13:00
and you have a compatible uh smart
01:13:02
smartphone.
01:13:03
>> It's insane. It's an absolute game
01:13:04
changer, right?
01:13:05
>> Oh, no. It's it is. It's um it's going
01:13:08
to be it's going to be amazing. And so
01:13:10
we're uh we're doing all the testing at
01:13:11
the moment across uh all parts of New
01:13:13
Zealand, load testing, customer
01:13:16
experience testing, device testing,
01:13:18
location testing. So it's working uh
01:13:22
when you see the sky, it's working in
01:13:24
buildings. When you're close to windows,
01:13:26
but when it, you know, just like any um
01:13:29
any coverage that you've got uh in an
01:13:32
elevator, you don't get coverage. Uh in
01:13:34
a mine, you don't get coverage.
01:13:36
Underwater, you don't get coverage. Um
01:13:39
and we just need to see where this um
01:13:41
the satellite coverage will uh will
01:13:43
reach. So yeah, it's cool.
01:13:44
>> So while the negotiations were going on,
01:13:46
were you were you worried that
01:13:48
conversations were going on with your
01:13:49
opposition or anything like that or
01:13:51
>> Yeah, like you never know. Um and that's
01:13:54
why you have to move fast.
01:13:57
uh and I think that's one of the
01:14:00
advantages that uh we we do have um is
01:14:05
that we'll move quickly that we're easy
01:14:07
to partner with
01:14:09
um that we had you know a lot of
01:14:11
ambition in terms of what this could do
01:14:14
for the country and how we could be a
01:14:16
test case for them for the world. Um and
01:14:19
then we signed up to a period of
01:14:22
exclusivity uh with them as well to make
01:14:24
sure that um you know we could we could
01:14:27
get it for a a period of time to kind of
01:14:29
create a strategic advantage for us.
01:14:31
>> The only thing I would say is uh when
01:14:34
the voice service goes live we are going
01:14:37
to make sure that everyone can access
01:14:39
this uh the 111 service regardless of
01:14:43
which telco you're with. So although I'd
01:14:46
love personally everyone to be with one
01:14:47
New Zealand, if you are with two
01:14:49
degrees, if you are with Spark and you
01:14:52
are somewhere remote, once our um voice
01:14:55
service launches on the Starlink SpaceX
01:14:58
service, if you need emergency services,
01:15:00
you'll be able to um you'll be able to
01:15:01
get help no matter what telco you're
01:15:03
with. It's a kind of a gift gift to New
01:15:05
Zealand from a health and safety
01:15:06
perspective. I don't want anyone getting
01:15:08
in trouble just because they haven't
01:15:09
chosen the right telco provider.
01:15:11
>> Yeah, it feels like that's probably the
01:15:12
responsible thing to do, right?
01:15:13
>> Oh yeah, it is the right thing. That's
01:15:14
why I'm going to be really proud that uh
01:15:17
we're leading this and there are other
01:15:18
satellite providers. Um SpaceX and Elon
01:15:22
Musk are way ahead of probably, you
01:15:24
know, they're years ahead of um of
01:15:26
anyone else.
01:15:28
>> And um I love the fact that, you know,
01:15:30
um when we make a big move like this,
01:15:32
everyone tries to play catch-up. I think
01:15:34
uh competition is good, right?
01:15:36
>> Oh, absolutely. It's necessary.
01:15:37
Otherwise, nothing nothing gets changed.
01:15:39
Nothing gets done. Did did you have any
01:15:41
direct dealings with um Elon Musk?
01:15:44
>> I've only I've had two uh email
01:15:46
conversations with him. Um one was on
01:15:48
the with on the deal. Um uh the other
01:15:52
one was when we did our uh our launch um
01:15:56
video and uh we sent it through to them
01:15:58
for approval and he said, "I love it. Uh
01:16:01
you've just taken stock footage of a
01:16:03
Russian rocket, not a SpaceX rocket, cuz
01:16:06
you
01:16:06
>> Oh my god.
01:16:08
>> Excuse me." So, can you please change
01:16:11
that out? So, uh that was a uh that was
01:16:13
a a slight a slight miss.
01:16:16
>> Uh
01:16:18
and then the um
01:16:19
>> it's like the McDonald's place all over
01:16:21
again.
01:16:21
>> Yeah. Yeah. And then the third third
01:16:22
thing which wasn't uh was indirect is
01:16:24
when we um when we started doing our
01:16:26
testing in New Zealand, he um he
01:16:29
messaged saying cool on uh on X. So
01:16:33
yeah, but um you know uh regardless of
01:16:36
whether you agree uh with his politics
01:16:39
or his views uh on life in general, he
01:16:43
is a technology genius and um
01:16:46
>> you know uh the intent of saving
01:16:48
humanity and prolonging humanity and
01:16:52
giving as many people access to this
01:16:53
amazing technology as possible.
01:16:55
>> You know what's not to love about that?
01:16:56
>> Oh yeah. I mean yeah I know he's
01:16:58
polarizing but the guy's an absolute
01:17:00
genius. like he's he he's got goals and
01:17:02
plans to change the world. Like he's
01:17:04
already looking at life on Mars and
01:17:05
things like that. And you just think of
01:17:06
the impact that Tesla's had on the um on
01:17:08
the e- car market. If it wasn't for
01:17:09
Tesla, we we wouldn't have um Pollster
01:17:12
or BYD. No,
01:17:13
>> we probably still just have like Priuses
01:17:15
driving around,
01:17:16
>> which is why competition is good, right?
01:17:17
And um you know and and again we're I'm
01:17:20
proud we were the uh we're the second
01:17:22
tal in the world and the and the a first
01:17:24
in the southern hemisphere to partner
01:17:27
with SpaceX and Starlink from little old
01:17:29
little old New Zealand. Uh that's New
01:17:31
Zealand at its best. So I love that
01:17:33
stuff right that kind of can do attitude
01:17:36
and um New Zealanders are good people.
01:17:38
Uh we're bold, we're brave, we're
01:17:40
cheeky, we'll ask, you know, what's the
01:17:42
worst that can happen? Just get a no.
01:17:44
And more than often than not, it pays
01:17:46
off. And it did. it did in this instance
01:17:47
as well. And uh and I think you know New
01:17:50
Zealand does it best. We do deals like
01:17:52
that more and more.
01:17:53
>> Yeah, that's a bon e. It's very brash.
01:17:56
>> Yeah, but it is seriously New Zealand at
01:17:58
its best. And that's a one of the things
01:17:59
I am a little bit um you know I get on
01:18:02
my soap box about is there's and you
01:18:05
know we were talking before this is an
01:18:08
amazing country
01:18:09
>> you know and uh and it's we have to
01:18:12
remind ourselves uh of that it's to to
01:18:14
live and work in New Zealand the
01:18:16
greatest country on the planet
01:18:18
>> and it's our job to kind of keep it that
01:18:19
way but you hear this negativity from
01:18:22
some parts of the country and some
01:18:24
groups I just dismiss it you replace it
01:18:27
with positive positivity. You need more
01:18:30
positivity, more good news stories, you
01:18:32
know, more innovation, more bold moves,
01:18:34
more big plays, uh more innovation, more
01:18:38
partnerships.
01:18:39
That's that's when we've always been at
01:18:41
our best when we when we do that, right?
01:18:44
So, um we need to see more of it. And I
01:18:46
I do feel like starting to get some
01:18:49
green shoots of uh of our mojo back,
01:18:52
which will be fantastic.
01:18:53
>> Yeah. Well, there's always going to be
01:18:54
the you know, the winters of society,
01:18:56
isn't there? It's always going to that's
01:18:57
always going to be there unfortunately.
01:18:59
But um J how are you doing for time? We
01:19:01
haven't even talked about the WS yet.
01:19:02
>> Oh I know. My favorite my favorite
01:19:04
topic. And uh speaking about social
01:19:06
media Dom. Yeah that's whenever there's
01:19:09
a Warriors game. My wife now confiscates
01:19:12
my mobile phone. Uh that's also a
01:19:15
perfect example of why you shouldn't be
01:19:17
on social media after you've had a glass
01:19:18
of wine. Uh it's also a perfect example
01:19:21
of uh I am me 100% of the time, right?
01:19:25
doesn't matter. And I've got to remind
01:19:27
myself uh at times that uh at all the at
01:19:31
all times I'm Jason Paris the dad, but
01:19:34
I'm also Jason I'm Jason Paris the worry
01:19:36
supporter. I'm also Jason Paris the CEO
01:19:38
of uh of One New Zealand. So, um, and I
01:19:42
look, I'm not I'm not that guy who's the
01:19:46
screaming parent from the side of the
01:19:50
sports field or uh at a game um abusing
01:19:55
refs or players at all. Um I was just as
01:19:59
a fan I was really frustrated because I
01:20:01
I feel I feel like that um sometimes
01:20:05
uh the New Zealand teams especially the
01:20:07
Warriors Warriors in any sporting
01:20:08
competition get a um yeah don't get
01:20:11
consistency at times.
01:20:13
>> Yeah. So this was this was a tweet you
01:20:15
wrote in the 2023 season. Um what was
01:20:18
it? Yeah. Was there backlash? Do you get
01:20:19
in trouble?
01:20:20
>> No. I
01:20:20
>> I haven't had to buy a beer in New
01:20:22
Zealand since.
01:20:23
>> So that's been good. I got a lot of
01:20:24
support. like a massive amount of
01:20:26
support because you you watch it and
01:20:28
they they go to the bunker for just
01:20:29
about every single Anyway, I don't want
01:20:32
to get you riled up with it. don't no
01:20:34
but like the the end of the day um refs
01:20:37
are human and they are just trying to do
01:20:40
their best and all of us make mistakes
01:20:43
>> and so what I was asking for was
01:20:45
consistency and I think um yeah the way
01:20:48
that uh I communicated if I had my time
01:20:50
again um I'd probably say it in a
01:20:52
different in a different way
01:20:54
>> to get a different to get a better
01:20:56
outcome but um you know it it just
01:20:59
demonstrated again hopefully you know uh
01:21:01
how proud I am to be a of uh the team
01:21:04
that supports the the Warriors, the
01:21:06
>> they're a fantastic club, fantastic
01:21:08
organization. Uh I don't know if you've
01:21:09
met Cam George, but man, he's a he's
01:21:12
amazing. Andrew Webster, what a leader.
01:21:15
>> I've had him on the podcast. Amazing
01:21:16
guy.
01:21:16
>> Yeah, just a phenomenal guy, right? And
01:21:19
um again, just great values, good
01:21:22
people, great work ethic. I love what
01:21:25
the club stands for. Five teams next
01:21:27
year. Um female teams going to going to
01:21:30
be launching. Um, so feel like we're
01:21:34
building some momentum to win our first
01:21:35
ever premiership.
01:21:36
>> Yeah. And so that wait, do you get into
01:21:39
trouble with anyone? Like who who tells
01:21:40
the CEO off?
01:21:41
>> Yeah. Well, no one really, but you know,
01:21:43
the NRL were a bit pissed off saying,
01:21:46
you know, you can't you can't criticize
01:21:48
uh you can't criticize our refs. So I
01:21:50
had a conversation with them and said,
01:21:52
yeah, that wasn't the that wasn't the
01:21:53
intention behind it. Uh it was to get,
01:21:55
you know, a uh a fair uh a fair go for
01:21:59
uh the the one New Zealand one New
01:22:01
Zealand Warriors. Um so I got a um I got
01:22:04
a request from the NRL to be a Facebook
01:22:06
friend after that. So I think we've made
01:22:08
>> We're good. We're good. Um
01:22:10
>> yeah. So So Vodafone and now one have
01:22:12
been um God, you've been sponsoring the
01:22:13
Warriors for Is it the longest
01:22:15
partnership in the NRL?
01:22:16
>> It is. Yeah.
01:22:17
>> What's what's the what's the ROI for you
01:22:19
guys? It must be a huge expense.
01:22:20
>> Uh well, no actually it's um Yeah, it's
01:22:23
pretty good. It's pretty good value.
01:22:24
Like I'm I can't say the exact number
01:22:26
because they've got a lot of lot of
01:22:27
sponsorships and a lot of commercial
01:22:29
commercial partners, but look, I think
01:22:31
it's a it's a
01:22:34
it's a fair amount to pay for
01:22:38
a long-term sponsorship where you get
01:22:40
the good with the bad and increasingly
01:22:44
more of the good. So, it's
01:22:47
>> They're a heartbreaking team, aren't
01:22:48
they?
01:22:49
>> They are. But the most loyal fan base
01:22:51
>> Yeah. Um the team behind it do an
01:22:55
incredible job for the fans. You know,
01:22:58
sellout crowds.
01:23:00
Uh they take the game throughout the
01:23:02
country. Their values and ethics are
01:23:06
again New Zealand at its best. Hard
01:23:08
work, innovation, honesty, trust, you
01:23:12
know, um
01:23:14
recruiting good people first across, you
01:23:16
know, every part of the organization. So
01:23:19
yeah, and and then you have years like
01:23:22
the last couple with the up the wires
01:23:26
momentum, you know, making the finals,
01:23:28
sellout crowds, playing really well,
01:23:31
scoring spectacular tries, fantastic
01:23:33
defense, attracting, you know, huge
01:23:36
talent from Australia where we had to
01:23:38
previously pay over the odds and now we
01:23:41
pay, you know, market rates for. Um,
01:23:44
yeah, we're in a really good really good
01:23:46
shape actually. So, it's a fantastic
01:23:50
sponsorship where I'd like to think that
01:23:52
we get amazing value for money and so do
01:23:54
the Warriors because, you know, we
01:23:56
amplify their brand and use our
01:23:57
platforms to do that
01:23:59
>> do that too. So,
01:24:00
>> yeah. Whenever it comes up for renewal,
01:24:02
like you're a massive fanboy, like we've
01:24:03
established that. When whenever it comes
01:24:05
up for renewal, do you come up against
01:24:06
some resistance from people in the team
01:24:08
like, "Oh, let's go."
01:24:09
>> No, no, not at all. And I've I've said
01:24:11
to Cam if uh if I had my uh my time, I'd
01:24:13
sign sign a 100red-year contract. Uh
01:24:16
that's not my job. It's probably past my
01:24:18
past my DF past my DFA. Yeah.
01:24:21
>> But you know um like no, we always
01:24:24
compare it to other sponsorships that
01:24:26
are available in the market and uh and
01:24:28
how much you'd pay pay for them and it's
01:24:30
it's great value for money. Um and it's
01:24:33
not really a sponsorship, but it really
01:24:35
is a partnership. It's it's a friendship
01:24:38
even. you know, we've got each other's
01:24:39
back after 20 25 years. And if it's not
01:24:42
100, I hope it's another another 25. And
01:24:44
there'll be good times and bad. And I
01:24:46
think that's why the fans in New Zealand
01:24:47
respect us as well. It's why it's often
01:24:49
called the one New Zealand Warriors.
01:24:50
People
01:24:51
>> no matter, you know, who are fans or the
01:24:53
media are happy to give us the
01:24:54
attribution because because of the the
01:24:57
loyalty. And other thing I would say is
01:24:58
that the game is going from strength to
01:25:01
strength. You know, the NRL,
01:25:03
they are so innovative. the way that
01:25:05
they've sped the game up, the way they
01:25:07
packaged the game up, the way they test
01:25:09
and trial rules and and to keep the
01:25:11
game, you know, the the the ball and
01:25:13
play and play more. Other sports codes,
01:25:15
I think, have got a lot to learn from
01:25:16
them, to be honest.
01:25:17
>> Oh, even the way they handled the
01:25:19
pandemic as well. And yeah, played on.
01:25:21
It was um yeah, really innovative.
01:25:23
>> And what a sacrifice the Warriors did,
01:25:24
you know, away from their families for
01:25:26
two, three, three years. So,
01:25:29
>> yeah. And um I'm excited. I'm going to
01:25:31
Vegas. So, as you mentioned, I'm I've
01:25:33
just turned 50. There are nine boys from
01:25:37
Invocle
01:25:39
uh going to Vegas for theirif for their
01:25:42
50th birthdays.
01:25:44
>> So, Vegas, watch out.
01:25:47
>> Sounds like um yeah, the hangover all
01:25:48
over again.
01:25:49
>> Yeah, the the tigers in the room.
01:25:51
>> The benchmark is everyone who gets on
01:25:53
the plane has to get back on at home.
01:25:56
So, uh that's the benchmark. As long as
01:25:59
we get back on that plane, then I think
01:26:01
everyone will be everyone will be fine.
01:26:03
>> Yeah. Ideally with a full set of teeth
01:26:04
as well.
01:26:05
>> Yeah. No facial tattoos or
01:26:07
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, what about the
01:26:08
stadium in Christ Church? So, you guys
01:26:09
are um signed a 10 year sponsorship deal
01:26:12
with that.
01:26:13
>> Yeah. So, if we do sponsorships um we're
01:26:17
either big or nothing, right? So, we're
01:26:18
naming rights or we're nothing. We don't
01:26:20
like to Yeah. you go big or go home on
01:26:22
that stuff, which is why we're quite
01:26:24
particular about uh about where we
01:26:26
invest.
01:26:28
>> And uh
01:26:30
like the team down there um they've done
01:26:33
such an amazing such an amazing job. I
01:26:35
don't know if you've seen it, but it's
01:26:36
going up. It's on time, on budget.
01:26:39
>> The design's spectacular. Uh can the C
01:26:42
can Cantabrians love it. The South
01:26:45
Island loves it. Um, yeah, I I think
01:26:49
increasingly when uh big acts come to
01:26:52
New Zealand, they'll go to Oakland and
01:26:54
and and Christ Church. So, that's that's
01:26:56
exciting. We wanted an anchor point um
01:26:58
in the South Island to demonstrate that
01:27:01
we're just we're not an Oakland ccentric
01:27:03
brand, you know, uh we're about the
01:27:05
mainland as uh as well. And so, we're
01:27:08
putting a lot of technology into the
01:27:10
stadium to uh to help help enable it.
01:27:13
And it's going to be a fantastic
01:27:14
partnership. And of course we've got
01:27:16
partnerships with Live Nation. So we
01:27:18
bring with the biggest artists part
01:27:21
partnerships with the One New Zealand
01:27:22
Warriors as well. So hopefully with the
01:27:25
sport and with the um with the music
01:27:27
acts uh you know we'll have uh all
01:27:30
facets kind of locked up.
01:27:31
>> Yeah, you guys do a great job. I I was
01:27:33
um in Breakfast Radio when um Vodafone
01:27:36
came on board as a sponsor for the New
01:27:37
Zealand Music Awards.
01:27:38
>> Yes.
01:27:38
>> So it was sort of every year the the
01:27:39
awards were on. It was like average
01:27:41
average. Vodafone came on board. Amazing
01:27:43
amazing amazing. Then the sports should
01:27:45
end. Yeah. Back to average again.
01:27:46
>> Yeah.
01:27:47
>> So when we do it, we want to do it.
01:27:49
>> Do it. Yeah. Um, what do you want to do
01:27:51
next? Like bigger role, smaller role or
01:27:53
like
01:27:54
>> you're still like on the way up, you
01:27:56
think?
01:27:56
>> I hope so. Yeah. Um,
01:28:01
uh, it's I I just again I love New
01:28:04
Zealand, so
01:28:06
my preference is to continue to live and
01:28:09
work work here. Uh, I wouldn't want to
01:28:12
move if we had to move overseas until
01:28:15
after my daughter had finished high
01:28:16
school. So, she's 11. So, bit of a stint
01:28:20
there. Uh, I don't want to overstay my
01:28:22
welcome at 1 New Zealand either, though,
01:28:24
you know. So,
01:28:24
>> how do you know when the time's right?
01:28:26
>> Yeah. I don't know. This um it's not
01:28:29
right yet, but maybe I'll just know. So,
01:28:31
I get up every morning and I'm super
01:28:33
excited.
01:28:34
The again, it's a fast a fast changing
01:28:37
industry. uh generative and autonomous
01:28:41
AI is exploding and we're at the
01:28:44
forefront of that as well. So that I'm
01:28:46
always learning and developing. So
01:28:47
that's quite cool. I can see massive
01:28:49
opportunities for our customers and for
01:28:51
our business in that. If um if my owners
01:28:55
just said, "Hey JP,
01:28:58
uh it's just status quo. Just run the
01:29:01
business. Don't change a thing. Don't
01:29:02
touch a thing." That would definitely be
01:29:04
time to leave. I I'd get bored within
01:29:06
about 10 seconds. They're not like that
01:29:08
though. They are super ambitious and uh
01:29:10
and keen for us to accelerate. So that
01:29:12
would be one. And then I suppose if
01:29:14
another big opportunity came up to do
01:29:16
something cool that would be meaningful
01:29:18
and impactful for New Zealand. Uh then
01:29:22
I'd have a I'd have a look I'd have a
01:29:23
look at it. Definitely wouldn't be
01:29:25
politics. I get asked that.
01:29:26
>> Oh, that was going to be my next thing.
01:29:28
Was it?
01:29:28
>> Yeah. Like after I did I did wonder
01:29:30
that. I had a thought after after
01:29:31
watching like the career careers of um
01:29:34
Key and Luxon. No, no, no.
01:29:36
>> No. I always every time I see
01:29:37
>> Why would you want it? I'm pleased you
01:29:38
said that.
01:29:39
>> Every time I see a polit politician, I
01:29:42
uh thank them for their sacrifice.
01:29:44
>> It is
01:29:45
>> because man like it's not just the
01:29:48
sacrifice that you see. It's a sacrifice
01:29:50
that you don't that you don't see. you
01:29:52
know, the scrutiny that they come under
01:29:54
at a cafe or in their social lives, the
01:29:57
the time that they spend away from their
01:30:00
homes, the documentation they have to
01:30:03
read, the hours they have to uh put in,
01:30:06
the significance of the decisions that
01:30:09
they have to uh have to make. Uh I'm
01:30:12
also not sure that I'm thick skinned
01:30:14
enough to take the you know, crap the
01:30:17
cop the criticism that that they get.
01:30:20
Even if you get into government, you
01:30:21
know that 50% of the country didn't vote
01:30:22
for you. So that's quite hard, right?
01:30:25
You imagine walking not that you imagine
01:30:27
walking through and going knowing 50% in
01:30:29
this room didn't back you. You know,
01:30:31
it's a pretty it's a pretty hard thing
01:30:33
to get your to get your get your head
01:30:35
around. And then you know again also
01:30:37
family uh social media is brutal. The
01:30:41
impact on kids um yeah family all that
01:30:46
kind of stuff. It's um and then what
01:30:48
I've convinced myself is that if you are
01:30:51
in a business that can make
01:30:53
positive impact at scale, you can do
01:30:56
great things for New Zealand still even
01:30:58
if you're not necessarily in politics
01:31:00
running a running a portfolio. And so,
01:31:03
>> you know, this this deal with um SpaceX,
01:31:07
I think will do more for New Zealand's
01:31:10
telecommunications infrastructure that a
01:31:13
government policy ever could. uh and
01:31:15
we're funding it so there's no cost to
01:31:16
the taxpayer. So that's pretty amazing.
01:31:19
Um and you know hopefully what we do
01:31:22
with autonomous a um AI will be another
01:31:26
big thing that that New Zealand will
01:31:27
will benefit from. So I also probably
01:31:30
don't see you know don't see the need to
01:31:34
move into politics to make a a big
01:31:36
positive impact on on New Zealand. But
01:31:38
you know what's next? I don't know. I
01:31:41
hope it's just within my control and
01:31:43
that uh that I don't, you know, get that
01:31:46
tap on the shoulder going, "What are you
01:31:47
doing here?" And I go, "Yeah, I know."
01:31:48
And then I'm off.
01:31:49
>> The bad shoulder tap. Yeah. Yeah.
01:31:51
Exactly. Yeah. Also, yeah. Um Yeah.
01:31:53
Politics. I Yeah. I mean, with your
01:31:55
skeletons in the closet, I don't know if
01:31:56
you could if you'd be the prime
01:31:58
minister. Do you want to talk about the
01:31:59
um
01:32:00
>> Exactly.
01:32:00
>> the McDonald's incident at the Sevens.
01:32:03
>> When was this? Were you at McDonald's at
01:32:05
the time or was this post
01:32:06
>> No,
01:32:07
>> post McDonald's.
01:32:08
>> This may have been pre McDonald's. Um,
01:32:11
>> so how old were you like in your 20s,
01:32:12
30s?
01:32:13
>> Early 20s.
01:32:14
>> In your defense, those um hotel doors,
01:32:16
they do slam alarmingly quick, don't
01:32:18
they?
01:32:18
>> Yeah. So, uh, this was Wellington 7s.
01:32:23
I was we're all dressed up Mexican
01:32:25
theme. It was the day one of two days.
01:32:29
Uh, as people had drunk way too much and
01:32:32
needed something to soak it up so I
01:32:35
didn't wake up with a hangover the next
01:32:36
morning. Bought McDonald's.
01:32:39
uh for whatever reason took all my
01:32:41
clothes off in the hotel room, was were
01:32:43
eating my was eating my McDonald's nude,
01:32:46
and then was like, "Oh, I know I'm going
01:32:48
to wake up feeling really rough in the
01:32:49
morning, and I'm going to feel even
01:32:51
worse if I can smell that kind of old
01:32:53
McDonald smell. How do I get rid of
01:32:57
this?" And so I I was like in my drunken
01:33:00
state going, "I'll uh put the bag
01:33:04
outside my room." And then as I put the
01:33:08
bag outside my room, I heard a click and
01:33:11
it was like 3:00 in the morning and I
01:33:14
was like, "Oh my god, I've got a
01:33:17
McDonald's bag and I'm new." And so then
01:33:20
I was like, "There must be
01:33:23
uh some
01:33:25
like kind of uh closet with towels or
01:33:28
something in it." And so I started in my
01:33:30
drunken state trying doors, which would
01:33:33
have been other people's hotel room
01:33:35
doors. And I then was like, "Oh my god."
01:33:38
I went down the next floor thinking,
01:33:40
"Well, the, you know, the the closet
01:33:41
with the laundry might be on the next
01:33:43
floor down, trying doors on the next
01:33:44
floor down." Until I gave up and then I
01:33:47
had to go to reception with a McDonald's
01:33:50
bag in front of me. The door dings open.
01:33:54
Unfortunately, there's like 10 people in
01:33:56
reception, even at 3:00 in the morning,
01:33:58
plus reception staff. And the beauty of
01:34:01
it is the guy just looked up from
01:34:03
reception and said, "What room?"
01:34:07
>> He'd seen it before
01:34:09
>> every weekend.
01:34:10
>> He's like, "What room?" I said, "My
01:34:11
room." He grabbed and he unfortunately
01:34:13
had to come up with me cuz I had to
01:34:15
describe what was in my room to cuz I
01:34:17
didn't have ID clearly. And uh
01:34:20
describing the room and the elevator was
01:34:24
a mirrored one. So there was nohere to
01:34:28
hide my body from him. And I remember
01:34:31
the music the lift elevator was like and
01:34:34
I was just like, "Oh my god." Sobered me
01:34:37
up real sobered me up real quick. So uh
01:34:42
yeah, there there are a few stories uh
01:34:46
like that which as you've said, I'm
01:34:48
pretty glad that uh yeah, social media
01:34:51
wasn't as prevalent when I was young and
01:34:53
people hadn't haven't got any photos
01:34:54
luckily. So, um, Vegas next year. Um,
01:34:57
undies to bed each night.
01:34:58
>> Yeah. Undies to bed. And that's that's
01:35:02
my benchmark. That's my benchmark. Do
01:35:03
not get locked out of my hotel room
01:35:05
naked.
01:35:06
>> Yeah. Oh, that's great. It's a great
01:35:07
story. I I've had
01:35:09
>> unfortunately a true one.
01:35:10
>> Yeah.
01:35:10
>> Have you had a similar situation?
01:35:12
>> Similar similar thing. Yeah. Sim similar
01:35:13
thing. And yeah, undies ever since. But
01:35:15
those doors, it's like what? How did
01:35:17
they shut so quickly?
01:35:18
>> I know. Exactly. And I'll never forget
01:35:20
that sound of the click. Uh, and I'll
01:35:22
never forget. But as I said, you know
01:35:24
that what room? It's clearly something
01:35:26
that happens regularly, you know,
01:35:29
>> every damn weekend.
01:35:29
>> Every hotel room.
01:35:30
>> Every damn weekend. Um couple of finish
01:35:32
with any any regrets?
01:35:36
>> Any regrets?
01:35:41
>> Uh yeah, there's a like when I was a
01:35:44
teenager, you know, I mentioned before,
01:35:47
you know, you're too cool for school. I
01:35:49
remember um being a 16-year-old in one
01:35:52
moment being a little bit disrespectful
01:35:54
to my grandmother. It was only once, but
01:35:57
I remember her telling me off and I
01:35:59
remember like, you know, I'm now 15 and
01:36:02
it was when I was 16. So any moment like
01:36:05
that where um I felt that I was
01:36:10
disrespectful no matter what age or not
01:36:13
as caring or didn't rep represent myself
01:36:17
uh in the way that I would like to.
01:36:19
That's probably my biggest my biggest
01:36:21
regret.
01:36:22
>> It's it's all those human moments more
01:36:24
than anything else. Nothing really
01:36:25
workrelated, you know, like the jokes
01:36:27
about the um the tra the the placemat
01:36:30
reprints, all that kind of stuff, you
01:36:32
know.
01:36:33
isn't it?
01:36:34
>> But in the scheme of things, it's
01:36:35
>> it's any moment where I um I hurt I hurt
01:36:39
someone.
01:36:40
>> That's the stuff that uh I'd regret.
01:36:42
>> I reckon that says a lot about your
01:36:43
character that you know. Three and a
01:36:45
half decades later, you're still Yeah.
01:36:47
That's the first thing that comes to
01:36:48
mind.
01:36:48
>> It is. And I I remember I can remember
01:36:50
that. I can remember that feeling of
01:36:51
letting down my grandmother now.
01:36:53
>> Yeah.
01:36:54
>> Are you proud of yourself?
01:36:58
>> Yeah, I think I am. Like I I know I'm a
01:37:00
good person like Steve Hansen. Um,
01:37:03
one of my favorite quotes of his is,
01:37:05
"The mirror never lies."
01:37:07
>> And so, like, I know I'm not perfect by
01:37:11
any stretch, but I know that I try and
01:37:13
be the best that I can be, and I try not
01:37:16
to beat myself up when I let myself uh
01:37:19
let myself down. So, um, yeah, I'm
01:37:23
proud. Um the thing I'm probably most
01:37:25
proud of is my children and feel like um
01:37:28
I had a part to play in
01:37:31
uh bringing them up with with good
01:37:33
values and and being and being good good
01:37:36
kids. I'm proud of the relationships
01:37:38
that I've got. I'm proud I'm a good
01:37:39
friend. uh and you know um hopefully the
01:37:43
people that I've had the opportunity to
01:37:45
work with or be friends with or or talk
01:37:48
to um have found it a you know a
01:37:52
positive engagement and um yeah so I'm
01:37:55
proud of the I'm proud again probably
01:37:56
the proud of the human stuff as much as
01:37:58
anything.
01:37:59
>> Well Jason Paris this has been a lot of
01:38:01
fun today. It's been great. You're a
01:38:03
unique CEO and it's been um fantastic to
01:38:05
sit down with you and pick your brains.
01:38:07
>> Yeah, thank you. I uh yeah thanks for
01:38:09
having me. um really really enjoyed it
01:38:10
and as always these type of
01:38:12
conversations
01:38:13
uh you learn as much you know through
01:38:15
the conversation uh when you're talking
01:38:18
about stuff is uh as you think you're
01:38:20
trying to help others with as well. So
01:38:22
feels like a you know thank you for
01:38:24
having me on uh um every time I get a
01:38:26
kind of request from someone who I see
01:38:29
as a famous New Zealander I kind of like
01:38:31
yourself I go what me you know so um but
01:38:35
surreal bit surreal being here but uh
01:38:37
thanks for the opportunity. Yeah. Well,
01:38:39
no, it's been great. I feel feel bad now
01:38:40
for stitching you up and getting you to
01:38:41
tell the McDonald's story. It was it was
01:38:43
lowhanging fruit and I didn't need to go
01:38:45
there. No, you're a great you're a great
01:38:47
New Zealander and um yeah, thank you so
01:38:48
much for being on the podcast.
01:38:49
>> No, thanks for your time.
