00:00:00
4:00 a.m. in the morning outside our front gate with loud speakers and drums yelling abuse at me and my children.
00:00:07
>> There is very limited information about you online >> by design. >> Why did you agree to do the podcast
00:00:11
today? >> They've never met me. They've never seen me and they start to have opinions about
00:00:15
things. >> Why do you think the public don't sort of connect with him?
00:00:17
>> I have never met anybody that has met Christopher and hasn't been able to
00:00:21
recognize that he is actually genuinely authentic. What you're led to believe is
00:00:26
not the truth. >> It must just be infuriating for you at times. has been a bit lonely.
00:00:30
>> There can be weeks at a time that maybe Christopher and I don't have good
00:00:33
meaningful contact and after all of this is over. It's him and me. >> You're both married, right?
00:00:37
>> We've been together since we were 15. And I just know that I'm the love of his
00:00:41
life and he's a love of mine. >> Amanda Luxen, welcome to my podcast. >> Dominic Harvey, thank you for having me.
00:00:49
>> Full names. >> I know. I love that. And I'm not your mother telling you off either. So,
00:00:53
>> she's No, you're not my my mother. You're probably um just old enough to be
00:00:57
my older sister. >> Possibly, but I think we're in the same Yeah. generation.
00:01:02
>> Same decade. Now, I've I've done so much re there is very limited information
00:01:06
about you online. Um by design. >> By design. Yes. >> But one thing um that's quite common
00:01:12
about you that I've read is that you you describe yourself as an introvert and
00:01:15
your husband Christopher Luxen, the extrovert in the relationship. >> Absolutely.
00:01:19
>> But we've been yelling for like 20 minutes prior to just beginning this
00:01:22
podcast now. Um I would I would not put you as an extra um an introvert at all. >> Yeah. And that's a a common uh comment.
00:01:30
I'm a gregarious um introvert. And you know, having worked with MyersBriggs a
00:01:35
lot, introversion is often misunderstood. Introversion is really about where do you get your energies
00:01:40
from? Where do you re-energize yourself? And so say Christopher and I are out for
00:01:44
an evening for example, and I've spent my whole time, you know, doing my non-preferred self, which is, you know,
00:01:50
putting out a lot of energy externally. Um, I'll come home and I'm exhausted.
00:01:55
Like I'll fall asleep in the car and it's like he comes home as an extrovert
00:01:59
who loves that and he'll be like buzzing. He'll need to have some television to calm down or you know call
00:02:05
someone on the telephone. So um it's really that and it's actually about your
00:02:09
thinking process. So you know introverts they'll think think and then they'll
00:02:13
talk and then they'll think. Extroverts think as they're talking. They'll talk
00:02:17
talk and then they'll stop and think. So it's more about thinking processes
00:02:20
rather than what we typically think extroversion and introversion is. But yeah, I need my me time
00:02:26
>> cuz having met you both now, I I think you're both have a chat. >> You both got but you sort of saying that
00:02:33
you you're you've got a limited social battery and it sort of drains >> and his sort of recharges as he
00:02:40
>> That's a really good way of doing it. I mean I have an extended battery now.
00:02:44
I've actually put two batteries together because I've had to um but certainly if
00:02:49
I look back say as a younger person in my teenage years um you know those were more difficult situations for me but
00:02:56
I've had to learn a lot of engagement is actually skill-based as well. Um and I
00:03:02
do tend to find I can spend an evening and um if I just ask questions then um people are really happy to you know
00:03:09
answer questions and that keeps conversation going and produces interesting things and yeah so I don't
00:03:15
really have to talk about myself which is great. Yeah. >> Yeah. Well given um that you're sort of
00:03:20
the the lady behind the man in this in this situation or at this chapter of your life and um you have been
00:03:25
relatively quiet by design. Why why did you agree to do the podcast today? Oh, um Christopher had done a podcast with
00:03:32
you recently um and really enjoyed the podcast. Um and so he said, "Look, um it
00:03:39
was a good podcast." And sometimes, um people actually hearing from me and and
00:03:44
what I've got to say, um just distills or dispels some of the things that people start to build up in their mind.
00:03:52
Um they've never met me, they've never seen me, and they start to have opinions
00:03:56
about things. And um so sometimes just a really nice chat like this, they get to
00:04:00
know me as a person, get to know a little bit about my history and who I am. Um and start to understand that
00:04:07
maybe what they uh have been led to believe may not be the truth. And if that's it and and I have lots of things
00:04:14
to say. I'm quite opinionated. >> Well, this is going to be good. >> It is. It is. It's funny. I try I try
00:04:21
not to do it. But God, we're all guilty of it, aren't we? Of like seeing people
00:04:24
and making judgments about people we don't even know. Yeah, >> but it is nice to show another side to a
00:04:29
person. So, who is Amanda Luxon? >> Yeah, who am I? Um, yeah, I'm I'm
00:04:35
obviously a mother of two. Um, my career has been round education. I started as in teaching and then um start up my own
00:04:43
consultancy firm. Uh, I would work with uh organizations that needed say some work in communication or some of those
00:04:51
HR subjects. Um, I've worked a lot with MyersBriggs Type Indicator. I've
00:04:56
actually trained and taught in quite a few of the personality profiles, but MyersBriggs is the one I love the most
00:05:03
cuz I think it really is goes across work and home. Um, is very easy to understand and has lots of applications
00:05:11
for people. So, in the courses that I'll run, people will start the day thinking,
00:05:16
I just can't be bothered with this. And if they can leave excited about something that they can change um or
00:05:22
understand more about their partner or work, then that's that's a win for me.
00:05:27
>> So, what is MyersBriggs and why is it important? >> Oh, yeah. So, it's just a it's a it's a
00:05:33
I'll call it a personality uh profiler. It's probably one of the oldest ones
00:05:37
that are is around. Um and it's really a tool, you know, you go through and you
00:05:43
answer a series of questions. The most important thing is that you then work with an instructor afterwards to help
00:05:49
you decode that. You can do those things online and you get a we blurb and you read through it and it's like yeah, you
00:05:56
don't really understand what it's help what information it's giving you and how
00:06:00
it's going to help you. So, and really it just helps you understand, you know,
00:06:05
um why does my husband get into the car and just drive without actually knowing where he's going, you know, or something
00:06:12
like that? Or why does my um why does my partner um leave everything to the last
00:06:18
minute? Or why are they really good at starting projects but not finishing projects? And so sometimes I find that
00:06:24
if we've got a framework or an education around it, it kind of breaks down a lot
00:06:29
of um angst, a lot of conflict um because you sit there and you go, "Oh yeah, babe, I know what you're doing and
00:06:38
here's a map so that when we get halfway to where we're going and you don't know
00:06:40
where to go next, we'll have it." So it's just a lovely way of enhancing um
00:06:46
communication uh and relationships. And the other big thing I think that's important is say I've got a message I
00:06:53
want you to receive. Um, and I'm sitting here and I want to get you to understand
00:06:58
what I want you to understand. If I give it to you in the way that is meaningful
00:07:03
to me and I understand, then it might not be the way that you receive it. You might not get or understand what I'm
00:07:11
trying to say to you. But if I can go, oh, you know, he's much more interested
00:07:15
in feelings than um you know, processes or things like that. So with my children, if um William is a um was a
00:07:24
big feeler, Olivia, more on the thinking um continuum. And so if William was, you
00:07:30
know, if I didn't like something, William would go, I'd say, William, that
00:07:34
makes me incredibly sad that you did blah blah blah. his little face would go if id said um William I don't think that
00:07:42
that you know is the right moral thing for you to do it would he would have looked at me but it wouldn't have sunk
00:07:49
in in the same way and and the reverse for Olivia if I say you know I need to say to her look on principle this is not
00:07:55
the best way to do that and she gets it so it's tiny little things like that
00:08:00
that you can implement >> on an everyday basis that goes I want to enhance my communication and my
00:08:06
understanding of you and by understanding you from your point of view. Um, it helps. Yeah. So, I love it.
00:08:11
I love it as a tool. Yeah. And you can use it in lots of different environments.
00:08:16
>> Well, it seems to have served you well from from what I know about you. You've
00:08:19
you've your kids still talk to you on a regular bas. My daughter very regularly
00:08:26
>> and I think that's that's really special when your kids get to an age where they
00:08:30
can make their own decisions and they can choose to be with you or not be with you.
00:08:33
>> Wear the matching jammies on Christmas or not. And they still >> Oh my gosh. Yes. And Olivia and I still
00:08:37
watch every Christmas Harry Potter from 1 to 8. And um and every night we do Wordle and Connections together even
00:08:44
though she's a long way away. So, but isn't that what we isn't that what we
00:08:48
want? Don't we want to get to that stage where we've put the work in and we've
00:08:53
empowered and encouraged and educated our kids that, you know, you get to the stage where you have this lovely
00:08:59
friendship. And I can remember being walking um in Melbourne with Olivia and I I just turned to her and I said, "This
00:09:05
is such a special time for me because I don't need to mother you anymore. Um I
00:09:11
can advise when you need advice like at 2:00 a.m. in the morning when the shower
00:09:15
faucet is spewing water and you don't know what to do." >> That's an actual thing that's happened.
00:09:20
>> That is a thing that's happened. Go find the mains. They're at the front of the
00:09:24
house. The what? Um but and also I don't have to help you mother your own children yet. And so
00:09:31
there's this really beautiful friendship. So she is the one that I can ring and go, "Oh, I had such a bad day."
00:09:38
And she'll go, "Oh, babe, I'm so sorry. Tell me about it." You know, and that's
00:09:43
just really lovely. And you know, William will he'll come down. The other day I might have done something silly
00:09:49
and managed to let a microwave drop from a very high um altitude onto the floor where it became a
00:09:56
trillion pieces. >> How high did it Did it fall off the fridge? No. >> Um yes, the top of the fridge. Yeah.
00:10:02
>> How were you cleaning around it or? >> Well, no. It was actually in storage and
00:10:05
I just happened to put something on top of the microwave that was on top of the fridge and the garage door came up and
00:10:11
took the whole thing off. So, it was just one of those moments that I perhaps wasn't thinking clearly when I did that.
00:10:17
Um, but so he comes and he goes, "I know that that's going to be, you know,
00:10:22
that's going to stress mom." So, he comes and he goes, "I've got it, Mom."
00:10:26
And so, the next minute he's out there helping me pull up the hundreds and thousands of pieces of glass and and and
00:10:32
solving that problem for me. So, that that's what we want. We want our kids to
00:10:36
to get to that stage. And and by the way, um they still want to come on holiday. And I think it's because we do
00:10:43
call holidays so and might pay for a little bit as they go. I'm sure there's
00:10:48
a few families that are going through that. >> That's the thing where you got to throw
00:10:51
in um like carrots or incentives for the maybe paying for the partners as well if
00:10:56
these partners. >> That's it. That's it. They want to come and they want to bring their friends
00:10:59
too. So that's all good. So I love that. Yeah. >> So how's life been for you the last
00:11:03
couple of years since Christopher got the job of prime? Are you are you an empty neester now? Has it been Has it
00:11:08
been a lonely I guess is what I'm asking. Oh, look, I think it's interesting. I'm not an empty neester
00:11:12
because William is still um with us. However, the decision has been made that um he will be um finding uh it's it's
00:11:20
time. Um again, being the introvert, actually, I don't mind time to myself. That's that's fine. So, I don't have a
00:11:28
big problem with um doing that. William is around, which is really nice. Um, and
00:11:33
yeah, when there's big periods of time, um, there can be weeks at a time that
00:11:38
maybe Christopher and I don't have good meaningful contact. And it's not that
00:11:42
I'm lonely. It's just that you want to have that contact. Um, but his schedule
00:11:47
is really up and down. He can be um, you know, one week he can be away three or four days, one week he can be away too.
00:11:53
So, and and I've got a lot going on in my own life. So, um, he's not the only
00:11:57
thing in my life. And I I suppose you just accept it's um it's a limited time,
00:12:02
however many many years or terms it may be. Um it does have an expiry date on it.
00:12:07
>> It absolutely does. And that's a really important point um Don because when we
00:12:11
went into this there were a whole lot of things that we said this is a season >> and in this season there's going to be a
00:12:19
whole lot of unexpected things and there's going to be a whole lot of things that maybe would happen that
00:12:24
might not happen in another season. um and that that is all okay. So I'm on the
00:12:31
phone the other night and it's 7 and he was due home at like you know4 to 8 or
00:12:36
something in from Wellington and so you know I've done the good thing the fish
00:12:40
pie is sitting there I'm very proud of the fish pie I know he likes fish pie
00:12:43
he's had a hard hard week and I said oh how far away are you and there was sort
00:12:48
of silence on the end of the phone and he goes um I'm still in Wellington and it's like
00:12:55
oh okay so I've got a choice don't I can sit there and go Okay, that's not okay.
00:13:00
Nobody told me. You're not being home tonight. Blah blah blah blah. Or you just go that that has no reward, that
00:13:06
kind of behavior. So you just sit there and you go, okay, the fish pile will be ready tomorrow night.
00:13:12
>> And so that's you have to enter into this phase with a huge amount of grace,
00:13:17
which is um things are going to happen and things are going to be done. Um and there are points that I draw the line. I
00:13:24
draw the line at this is a big house. This is the kitchen. you do not need to take that very important call with a
00:13:32
very important person sitting on my couch. So, would you mind removing yourself to your very nice study and
00:13:39
continuing it there? And of course, he hasn't even realized because he's
00:13:42
sitting there. The phone call comes. So, you know, you then say, "I'm sorry, move
00:13:45
yourself through." Um, but um yeah, no, generally you just remain very flexible
00:13:50
because you have very little control of things that happen to you. So the only thing you can really control is your
00:14:00
sort of inner sphere and your inner circle and you you keep control of that and just understand that there's a lot
00:14:05
of things that will happen that >> um and you just don't engage with that.
00:14:09
Yeah. >> Has it been a big adjustment for you? He's done some big jobs before this,
00:14:13
right? Uni Lever New Zealand they're big jobs that require big hours and stuff
00:14:18
but I suppose nothing like this. >> Yeah. So um yes definitely you know up
00:14:24
at 5 to bed at 12 is a little more extensive and I think the constant um there is no restbite with regards to
00:14:34
prime ministerial duties because he's on the whole time um and then when he's not
00:14:39
he's kind of coming up with big ideas for me to go and implement somewhere so
00:14:43
because his mind is continually moving and solving problems. Um so there's that
00:14:48
aspect of it. Um I think we've we've had a lot of change in our life and um so
00:14:55
we're not new to change and I think what you do is you approach everything with
00:15:00
um what is it that is going to be good and we can get out of this and there's
00:15:04
always bad things to everything but you go would we have changed the situation? No. So let's embrace it. So, um, yeah,
00:15:13
there's lots of things that keep coming at us and there's a number of things
00:15:17
that are definitely downsides and upsides, but it's the journey and we made the decision together to do this.
00:15:25
And at the core of that was the the mission to really give back and and serve because he gave up quite a good
00:15:34
and lucrative career overseas. And um so we we had choices as to what we could have done.
00:15:41
>> Uh and it was our choice um that we wanted New Zealand to be a children's
00:15:46
home and that he could yeah give back and use his really unique set of very accomplished skills to actually give
00:15:54
back cuz there's not a lot of people that actually want to leave what they're
00:15:57
doing to come and work in government. Why would you why would you I know I know um I know you guys are really good
00:16:03
friends with um John and Brona Key and I've had John on the podcast and >> I forget what the amount was but he was
00:16:09
telling me how much um Meil Lynch >> tried to offer him to stay and rather
00:16:13
than come back here and have a crack at politics and I said to him WHY WOULD YOU
00:16:16
NOT DO IT? >> IT was like 6 million a year or something crazy like that. >> Yeah.
00:16:21
>> People that do this job do it because they they they love New Zealand and they
00:16:24
want the best for New Zealand. >> Yeah. If you have if you are not a career politician and you haven't lived
00:16:28
and worked in and and just come up through the Wellington um you know politician sort of um
00:16:34
>> elevator >> elevator and you haven't really lived or worked outside of that. If you've come
00:16:39
in from overseas, then um it has to be a choice. And it's interesting, lots of
00:16:44
people say, "Oh, um that would be good. I'd like to do that." But when it
00:16:48
actually comes down to the crunch, um you know, it's there are very few people
00:16:54
that want to do it, but also very few people that can that can do it. Um everybody thinks they can be a leader,
00:17:00
but um leadership is is actually a very difficult thing and requires quite a lot
00:17:04
of skills and things like that. So yeah, so he has always I mean New Zealand is our passion. Um we love New Zealand. We
00:17:12
think New Zealand is amazing and he really is um an incredible gem to for what he can bring to the table and has
00:17:23
been incredibly successful in other um other lives before this. So um yeah, it's it's good. At the time we're
00:17:31
recording this, it's um March 2026 and there's been a couple of polls that have
00:17:34
come out this month which have been um really unfavorable. >> Yeah. >> I I've met Christopher a couple of
00:17:40
times. I've had him on the podcast and anyone that meets him will think he's
00:17:44
will think he's a nice guy. He's he's a lovely man. Why do you think why do you
00:17:48
think the public don't sort of connect with him or see that from what we see on
00:17:51
the TV? Well, I could give you a really glib answer to that or I could give you a real answer.
00:17:58
And and it's a really interesting um question, Dom, and in fact, one of the things that amazes me is that um the
00:18:06
most common comment I would get from people and I spend a lot of time out in the community with people and most New
00:18:14
Zealanders wouldn't know the role that I actually play, but I spend a lot of time
00:18:18
engaging particularly in overseas and and as much as I can here and and I love doing that. Um, but people will say to
00:18:26
me, "Oh my gosh, um, I listened to, you know, Christopher speak last week or I
00:18:31
was introduced to him and and they'll go, I'm blown away." And they'll go,
00:18:36
"Why didn't I know this?" >> Um, and this is this is this is not a
00:18:42
political response. This is a a very deep personal response because it affects the person that I love the most
00:18:48
in all the world. you know, I we've been together, known each other sort of since
00:18:52
we were 15, and I know this man through and through. And I think that one of the
00:18:57
biggest problems we've got in New Zealand is that we're a small country.
00:19:01
So, if you think about how do New Zealanders actually get their information, there's relatively, if you
00:19:06
stay away from the the Looney Tunes and the con, you know, conspiracy, um there's a relatively few amounts of
00:19:15
mechanisms for disseminating information out. And so, you know, if you go to the
00:19:20
US, you go, "Okay, um, if I'm a Democrat, then, um, I'm going to sit and
00:19:26
watch CNN and they will reinforce all of my values and thoughts, um, and I can go
00:19:32
away feeling good if, you know, if you go to Fox, then they'll tell you that
00:19:38
um, the current president has won the war, even if he hasn't." >> It's an echo chamber thing that we hear
00:19:44
about. >> It is. It is. and but you know that you know that that's their alliances and
00:19:48
they make it very clear but we have a much smaller system of disseminating that information and I actually feel as
00:19:56
though New Zealanders are somewhat given a disservice because there's the information that comes up is
00:20:04
quite a selective piece of information and so and it's chosen by people and we
00:20:10
believe that what's been given to us is the full story. M >> um we believe that it's the correct
00:20:17
story and we believe it's factual and it doesn't have a um you know a an agenda
00:20:24
or a bias by anybody. Um, but I can sometimes go, "Oh, were they at the same
00:20:30
thing I was at?" Because in fact, this was a really great event or a really
00:20:35
great occasion, but what's reported is this tiny little, you know, petty sort
00:20:40
of thing on the side. And New Zealanders miss out. And I don't think that they
00:20:46
are afforded the respect or the ability to be given all the information um to make their own decisions.
00:20:54
They may still decide not to or to like um Christopher, but they're only given a
00:21:00
piece of the story. It's a carefully crafted image that is presented because
00:21:07
um all the amazing things that are happening and all the good things that are happening are not actually um
00:21:13
report. That message doesn't get through. And that's why when you meet him, you go, "Wow, this guy's funny.
00:21:19
He's intelligent. He is very knowledgeable, very personable, and you're kind of shocked because what
00:21:25
you're led to believe is not the truth. And I think we don't have any recourse
00:21:30
on that. There's no way of us coming back and saying, "Hold on, that article
00:21:34
was total baloney." Um, and you purposely set that up. We we can't do that cuz it's distracting and we want to
00:21:42
continue to focus, well, not we, they want to continue to focus on the important things. So I think that's
00:21:47
probably the biggest problem because I have never met anybody that has met Christopher and hasn't been able to
00:21:54
recognize that he is actually genuinely um authentic integral and super bright and he's really here to do the job not
00:22:08
for himself. It's he's one of the few politicians that it's not about him.
00:22:13
It's about really giving back and doing for New Zealand. And so I think that's
00:22:17
you know the original question was why don't they know and I think it's because
00:22:21
and as a society we no longer really have the ability to be critical thinkers. We information is given into
00:22:27
us and we just accept what is given to us as the you know as the thing. So yeah.
00:22:33
>> Yeah. I saw um I I've got a quote written down here somewhere from um you
00:22:36
on Petra's Gray Areas podcast which I I loved. >> That was a fun podcast.
00:22:41
>> Yeah. We seem to have lost the ability to hold different opinions and still be
00:22:44
friends. >> Yeah. Yeah, I I firmly believe that and I think it's the biggest crime of you
00:22:50
know where we live at the moment and you can see internationally it's getting
00:22:53
worse and worse and worse like when we lived in the states it was the politics were much more central and as the years
00:22:59
went by you could just see them being pulled apart but so if you I guess if you took a cross-section of every
00:23:05
community and said to people what is it that you want out of life um what would they say we want health we want
00:23:12
happiness and most importantly we want really um strong and bonding relationships um with friends and
00:23:20
family. Everybody wants exactly the same thing and there are um there's different
00:23:26
ways of getting there um often. So for example, if you look at the way um you know some policies are set down or
00:23:35
whatever, the intent is still to get to a place. You may disagree with how they get there, but probably if you look at
00:23:41
it, the end result will be the same thing. And so as soon as something gets politicized, like there's some things
00:23:48
that should not be politicized. You know, climate change shouldn't be politicized. Everybody should be working
00:23:53
together. Fashion, art, music, they shouldn't be politicized cuz everybody should be able to enjoy and have access
00:23:59
to them. So if you took everything away and you got everybody into a room that could actually talk, yes, there's
00:24:07
nuances, but if the goal is the same, I reckon we're actually closer. the once it's politicized, it tends to
00:24:16
put in big divisions because you have very loud voices that say they're speaking for everybody but might be
00:24:24
speaking >> or they might be on the extremes whereas on the continuum there's people all the
00:24:30
way along that continuum that may agree to a point but also agree the other side. So I think
00:24:36
>> and I think it's a shame because it prevents meaningful conversation. Um,
00:24:40
and um, if we could actually just sit down and have um, you know, um, yeah, put people in a room and take all the
00:24:48
yanks and things out, I think you'd find there is more similarity than difference. Yeah.
00:24:53
>> Yeah. There's a Michelle Obama quote that I mention a lot on the podcast.
00:24:56
It's most people most people are hard to dislike up close, >> don't you think? Yeah.
00:25:00
>> 100%. >> So th those polls the other week, how like how's that at home? What's going on
00:25:04
behind the scenes? Like there was there was um just rumors swirling online about
00:25:09
you know Christopher losing his job and being overtaken by Mark Mitchell. There were stories on Reddit about a snap
00:25:14
election and stuff. Does does he does he wear that on his sleeve or does he come
00:25:18
home with a mask on and sort of not talk shop with you? >> Well actually you've just reinforced my
00:25:22
entire previous conversation around dissemination of invasion. So who puts that information out there and who
00:25:28
listens and reads it because most of it's troll. Um and um but people get all
00:25:33
head up about it. Look, um, >> but it was still like I'm think I'm
00:25:37
probably projecting here, but if I was in his shoes, it would get it would get under my skin.
00:25:40
>> Well, I think it's really I think it's really it's hard when you know that
00:25:45
actually it's quite the information that goes around it is unjust when in fact
00:25:50
you are doing all of these things that are not being represented. So, there's
00:25:53
that aspect to it. And yes, of course, anybody would get affected by it, but um he you've got to sort of, you know, in
00:26:02
the polls I kind of think this is me, not anybody else. I kind of think look, they could have worded a particular
00:26:07
question in a way that, you know, do you want the red pajamas or the slightly red
00:26:11
pajamas? And it's like there's no blue pajamas in there or what actually, you
00:26:17
know, whatever. And it's like that skew. So, you don't quite know what the nature
00:26:21
of it. and they kind of say, um, but I know there's whole communities that aren't being tapped that are very, very
00:26:28
positive towards Christopher and they're not going to be represented in it, but
00:26:31
he and I are very aligned with each other. Um, and he doesn't hide anything from me. There's things I don't need to
00:26:38
know. But, um, I understand him the best in the world. I know him the best in the
00:26:43
world. And after all of this is over, it's him and me. And so he can, you know, he can share with me and be very
00:26:50
frank and um clear with me and say things that he couldn't necessarily say or express elsewhere. So we're the safe
00:26:58
home haven at night um at home and um and that's he comes home and he's in a
00:27:04
safe place and so that's the important thing. So, so I think you've got to just
00:27:08
sort of go it is what it is, but actually um the only poll that really matters is the one on on on the day and
00:27:15
you've got to just keep rising above that. But it's hard when you're
00:27:19
achieving a lot, working so hard and you know um >> the information is not getting out there
00:27:26
as to what's really going on. So, it would absolutely reflect, you know, that
00:27:30
sort of thing. Also, also your your perspective, you know, this the guy you love, the guy that you you've been
00:27:35
married to for 32 years. Um, I mean, he's big enough to look after himself, but um, it must just be infuriating for
00:27:40
you at times. >> Yeah. And I'm very disciplined. Um, and I have to be very disciplined. Um, you
00:27:47
said you couldn't find anything out about me purposely. I have no social media. Um, the only time you'll probably
00:27:54
ever see me is maybe if I pop up on Christopher's social media. um has nothing to do with the fact that I'm not
00:28:00
that great on tech. It's I'm saying it's because I'm choosing not to have social
00:28:04
media. >> Have you ever had it or did you did you shut everything down? >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I never had it. Um and
00:28:10
it was quite good cuz it was just coming in when the kids were sort of getting there and we sort of said to them, "Oh,
00:28:16
you know, the security team at New Zealand have said you're not allowed to post and you're not allowed to." It was
00:28:20
brilliant. It was absolutely brilliant. So neither we never had social media problems with our um kids. Um and so I'm
00:28:28
very grateful and thankful for that. So and I'm very disciplined in that I do
00:28:33
not read any comments that come up anywhere because for a start most of the comments are illinformed. Um, and I
00:28:42
actually kind of think if you can sit behind a keyboard and make such awful comments about someone that you've never
00:28:50
known, you don't really understand the issue um that actually you possibly lead
00:28:56
a little bit of a sad life. Do you know what I mean? And actually I feel sorry that you can't get your self worth from
00:29:03
somewhere else other than being egregiously horrible to other people who are out there working really hard for
00:29:12
your benefit. So that's the frustrating thing. So I read very little I don't I
00:29:18
read very little media um because I would tend to look at it at night and then if there's something that comes up
00:29:25
that is horrendously unjust I then lie awake all night. So >> I mean everyone says don't read the
00:29:34
comments but god it does take a huge amount of self-disipline. I never read the comments. And so if you get a sort
00:29:39
of a news article that comes out and you go, that is just a lie. That is so not okay. And you are getting away with
00:29:47
putting fabrications in there. And so that's what would get me going all night
00:29:51
going >> if I meet you, you know. So yeah. >> Um you being a private person, how did
00:29:57
you find uh like election night in particular? This is the photo that sort of went viral. It's a screen cap of um
00:30:05
uh you and William taking some house pizza and some savories out to the to the media outside.
00:30:10
>> Yeah. >> And um the whole conversation became about your arms. >> Yes. Well, the funny thing about that is
00:30:15
I had no idea because of course I don't have social media. So I had no idea this
00:30:20
is kind of imploded around me until about nearly a week later when someone said um oh have you seen this? And I'm
00:30:27
going no. And I really I find it quite hysterical cuz I've had a very good relationship with my arms for about
00:30:33
50some years. They they've worked very well for me and you know um and have never been given attention before. So um
00:30:41
yeah, so I'm sure they feel very good about themselves, but um it it doesn't
00:30:46
um an effect I should have. It was only that I was you know had something really
00:30:49
heavy I was carrying. >> Yeah, you're getting a flex on. I've had um I've had Dame Lisa Carrington on the
00:30:54
podcast and we talked we talked about um body image and she she feels very self I
00:30:59
mean hers hers are like next level >> amazing they need to be but she said she
00:31:04
feels um you very conscious you when she goes to the Hellbergs and wears like a sleeveless dress
00:31:09
>> or when people comment about it um yeah >> she looks so beautiful
00:31:14
>> she's stunning yeah I take a bit of a different track which is that um that
00:31:19
anything I do has got nothing to do with visual effect of it. Everything I do for
00:31:24
myself is um to remain healthy um and fit. Fitness is important to me because I want to be able to do all the things
00:31:33
that I love doing um in the world. And if I'm fit, then I get to do all of those things. I get to keep up. Um and
00:31:41
that's really the impetus for me. And also, you know, as you start to understand as we get older, the the
00:31:48
changes particularly for women and the risks, the huge risks for women, you know, postmenopause and, you know, the
00:31:55
the drop in um body and bone mass and all the other things that come along with it. Um, and I do look at my
00:32:02
parents' generation that never had the advantage of all the information and things that we've got now. And I see,
00:32:09
you know, often you'll have broken bones and you'll have all these things and
00:32:13
they just don't have the fundamental structure or fitness because they've
00:32:18
never built it up um to support a body in their 80s and 90s to continue to do the things that they want. So, I still
00:32:26
want to be out, you know, doing all of those things and and not, you know, huffing and puffing and climbing a hill
00:32:32
and things like that and just more preventative, making sure what are the things I can do now just to ensure and
00:32:38
it's not an aging thing for me and it's not a look thing for me. It's actually a
00:32:44
being able to do what I want to do. Um, and that's kind of what drives most of
00:32:48
what I do. It's got nothing to do with the other. >> I'm I'm in the same era. There's a book
00:32:53
I read called Outlift by a guy called Dr. Peter Aier and it's basically about
00:32:56
reverse engineering aging. So it's like okay in your mid70s if you want to travel Europe by rail, you're going to
00:33:01
need to be able to lift a 15 to 20 kilo suitcase in the overhead. That's it.
00:33:04
>> So you need to be doing the things now in order to But I I heard something from
00:33:08
you. I think this was on Paula Bennett's podcast and >> I don't know. I'm skeptical about this.
00:33:12
Are you? >> I think you may have been lying. I mean like you you said you only like do
00:33:16
you've got a workout routine you do um that's like 10 minutes 10 minutes each
00:33:20
time and you do that twice a week. You got to be doing >> for weights. >> Yeah.
00:33:24
>> Oh, yeah. No, I don't do >> 10 minutes twice a week. >> Like um last year I did decide um that I
00:33:30
probably needed to do um I I do do a little bit of tennis as well and what I'm seeing is a lot of at this age you
00:33:37
start getting a lot of injury. So everything I do is to prevent injury because if there's injury I can't do
00:33:42
what I want to do. So, >> it takes so long to recover as well. >> Oh my gosh. As you get older, like if I
00:33:47
feel a twinge now, it's like stop, stop, go see, you know, >> sometimes you wake up. What happened?
00:33:53
What happened to my neck in the night? >> Okay, so I've got a result. But I I did
00:33:58
come across compression boots. Have you like the the Normatch and the body compression boots? They're these massive
00:34:05
things and you you put them on and they blow up. >> Oh, yeah. Like a like sleeping sleeping
00:34:09
bags for your individual legs. >> Yeah. And then they they have a cycle and they blow up and blow down. They
00:34:15
have changed my life. Um because you do tend to wake up at my age and you've you
00:34:20
know done a 10k run and done whatever else and you go I'm feeling a bit tight
00:34:24
and things the these things are like magic. So um so you sort of hunt out things that will help recovery. Recovery
00:34:32
is harder at our age and then as you say injury is really hard. So, um yeah, so that sort of um the routine is really to
00:34:41
go, yep, I need to strengthen that to make sure that that's working. So, it's
00:34:47
just sort of looking at the time, what am I doing and what do I need to have strengthen to support the other muscles
00:34:51
and things to make sure I'm doing it. So, no, I I don't spend a lot of time
00:34:55
weightlifting, but when I lift, I lift to failure. >> Um so, that's the key thing. You can sit
00:35:01
there and pump iron as much as you want all day, but actually five minutes lifting so that you can't lift anymore.
00:35:06
Um, except for you then spend two or three days not being able to walk. Are they dos that delayed onset muscle?
00:35:13
It's a great feeling. >> You know, there's been a couple of times where I've tried to get down the stairs
00:35:18
and Chris is going, "Are you all right?" And I'm going, "Yes, yes, yes, yes. It's
00:35:21
just the quads are killing me." And it's like two or three days. So, it's kind of
00:35:24
a balance, isn't it? It's like still want to be able to move, but yeah. >> And you mostly run. you run 12ks most
00:35:30
mornings. >> Um yeah. Yeah. So I would do so it's a little bit of a mixture. Um probably I
00:35:37
would say in the last 2 3 years I've probably bought that back to 10ks a day.
00:35:42
And that's mainly because as you get older you want to change that combination of what you do a little bit
00:35:47
more. Um and also I've sort of segmented a few other things which has been really
00:35:52
fun. Um but um yeah I didn't get to run last week. We're in Tonga Samoa. So I
00:35:58
have had that and it can be very restrictive. I think when we were in Korea last year um so I did go running
00:36:04
in Korea which was great. Malaysia was too hot but Korea was a little bit um yeah so that was a little bit
00:36:10
interesting cuz um Donald Trump was also there at the same time. So I worked out
00:36:15
in the end I actually had five people running with me and so in front of me I and they were um elite um elite trained
00:36:23
soldiers. So I'm sitting going, he goes, "Oh, what's your pace, ma'am?" And I go,
00:36:28
"Oh, um, five and a half minute case." And he's going, "Okay." So he sets his
00:36:34
clock. Halfway round I'm going, "Oh, could we just take a photograph, please?"
00:36:41
Anyway, so I've got one guy in front and I didn't realize, but I had two guys
00:36:44
behind me. Um, and then I had a car coming with me as well. So, um I might have taken it slightly um slightly
00:36:52
softer, but then of course I couldn't step down, could I? I couldn't say, can
00:36:56
we make that can we make that a 6 minute 545 for a bit? >> 5:45. It's like there was a bit of pride
00:37:03
in there. It's like, no, I I could manage it. >> Yeah. Cuz running for me is such an
00:37:07
individual thing. Like I go out there, some people prefer to do it in in like a group, but I prefer to do it on my own
00:37:12
and clear, you know, clear my thoughts. >> Yeah. Well, again, as an introvert, it's
00:37:16
been my way over the years of going, well, at least that's my time. Um, and I
00:37:21
can get out there and do a whole lot of processing. Um, and um, yeah, so that's
00:37:26
I do enjoy that uh, part of it and I enjoy the rhythm of movement, so that works for me. Um, and um, yeah, I don't
00:37:34
enjoy the cold so much, but you know, that's never it's never perfect, but I
00:37:38
don't I don't run with other people. Um, I don't do I have done marathons, but I
00:37:43
don't do I have no need to do that. That's not what drives me. It's just a
00:37:46
very personal thing. Yeah. >> How many have you done? I I read somewhere online that you've done the
00:37:50
Chicago Marathon. I I was looking for the result online, but I couldn't couldn't even find that anywhere.
00:37:54
>> No. No. No. Very few. I think um having done the Chicago Marathon um and I
00:38:01
decided um that possibly that was an activity I never needed to do again and that it was very overrated. um and
00:38:10
um that in fact I couldn't walk for several days after that. So um and having small children at the time. So um
00:38:17
that's not something that drives me and I don't really need to put myself
00:38:20
through that level of pain. Um I know for some people it works, but um yeah, it it I yeah running with crowds it's
00:38:29
you know takes the enjoyment away. So yeah, I don't do it for other people. I
00:38:32
just do it for me. So yeah, >> I I I get messages all the time from people asking about marathons and I say,
00:38:37
"Look, if if it's a bucket list thing and you're going to be one and done, do
00:38:39
one of the majors like like do do a Chicago or a London or a New York or a Boston."
00:38:44
>> Yeah. Yeah. The problem with the the New York is that you've got to run um sorry
00:38:48
the Boston got to run the others under about 4 420 for a woman and it's like,
00:38:54
"Oh yeah, >> Boston qualifier." >> Yeah. I can do that over a half
00:38:58
marathon, but get me to a marathon. I think I'd be diminishing returns on that. So, yeah. So, that's that. Yeah.
00:39:04
>> Do you do you enjoy these um these trips like the trip to the Pacific Islands
00:39:08
last week? >> Um yeah. What's interesting is that what people don't see is that um
00:39:13
Christopher's got a very strong program and then I will intersect with him at
00:39:17
various points. But um >> at dinners or functions or >> Yeah. or you know particular events but
00:39:23
on the side of that I have my own program which is probably can put me really well into my happy place. So my
00:39:30
happy place is really, you know, sitting cross, well, actually not cross-legged,
00:39:34
demurly, throwing my legs to the side because I can't sit cross-legged and then get up and walk now, but sitting,
00:39:41
you know, sitting on the ground and just spending time in particular women and children's organizations cuz they're my
00:39:47
passion. um and sitting with all these mostly very underprivileged and very disadvantaged um organizations that are
00:39:58
working really hard to support and strengthen women's roles and educate women and things like that. So, they're
00:40:04
the things I love about these um jobs and often I've been into communities that often things that New Zealand
00:40:11
financially support and they've never seen a New Zealander before and it's the
00:40:16
greatest joy to actually go in and hear what they're doing and and support them
00:40:20
and encourage them and I've done a lot of work with um in the anti- um anti-ex
00:40:25
trafficking um space. Olivia and I um did that for many years and a lot of that work was going into very obsolete
00:40:33
tiny little communities that you know they live off a dollar a day if they're
00:40:38
lucky that they scavenge for and you know it's it's quite um appealing to
00:40:44
sell your daughter or whatever. And so working with organizations that are supporting them and educating them and
00:40:50
micro financing and and and that's just it's just to be with people and and make
00:40:55
those connections meaningful connections. So when I get to do that on the trips um what people don't
00:41:00
understand is these trips yes there's trade etc. But actually >> the international relationships that are
00:41:08
built are so important for New Zealand. We are an isolated country um and we can't exist on our own and um and when I
00:41:18
spend time and build relationships with spouses, spouses go home and talk um and
00:41:25
um so that's a really intrical role and it's it's a hard role. It's very uh it
00:41:30
takes a lot of energy. It takes a lot of focus um and can be very rewarding, but
00:41:36
it is hard and um particularly when you're sitting in 35°ree heat with 90° humidity and it's dripping down your
00:41:44
legs and you just have to sit for you know 2 hours. So, you know, so, so I do enjoy that aspect of it when I get
00:41:51
opportunities to to build meaningful relationships and there's always a lot of cultural barriers in there as well,
00:41:58
often interpreters as well. But when you do, it's it's a real um you know, when I
00:42:03
was in Korea, um just about every outlet, you know, there was me and the first lady and and you could see that
00:42:10
relationship developing. So, it was it was lovely. Yeah. So, they're the they're the good parts.
00:42:14
Who who are the spouses that you've really jelled with? You know, people that you think, okay, after politics, I
00:42:19
could still, you know, be be friends on a social level with this person. >> Yeah, it is actually really difficult
00:42:24
because remember that they're all centralized either in their communities or around Wellington
00:42:29
>> and so we only really get to meet um on the odd occasions when there's the whole
00:42:36
caucuses together and and the partners have come for a retreat or something like that or a meeting or an annual
00:42:42
general meeting. So there's not a lot of opportunity for us to uh interface. And
00:42:46
I live in Oakland. I don't I only go to Wellington um to either do um spousal um
00:42:53
functions with overseas or go to events or things like that. So I mean Christopher is never there. So there's
00:42:59
no point in me being down there when I've got my whole community and life up
00:43:02
here. >> So there's a couple of spouses that maybe are more Oakland based that I've
00:43:07
been able to spend a little bit more time with. Um we had the the real pleasure of going to um Sarah and Mark
00:43:14
Mitchell's wedding on Friday. Um and and that was really fun. Um yeah, so so
00:43:19
they're harder relationships to build whereas he's down there with all the
00:43:23
MPs. Um and yeah, so that that's what it is. Yeah. And often actually with some
00:43:28
of those things, the other spouses will be able to meet, but I might need to be doing something else as well. So I might
00:43:33
not get that opportunity. So yeah. >> Oh, here's a question. You might want to
00:43:36
pass on this one. >> I might. I'll tell you >> who who who travels better. Is it the
00:43:41
wife of the prime minister on the New Zeal on the um the Royal New Zealand Air Force plane or is it the wife of the
00:43:47
COVID in New Zealand? I know New Zealand business class lifelines are somewhat wanting that quite often
00:44:04
they don't get off the ground. Um, and we only take and they can only get as
00:44:09
far as Papa New Guinea and have to be refueled. And you're sitting there and
00:44:12
you're going, "Where's that drip coming from?" You realize that you're being
00:44:15
dripped on from the condensation. But um, there is the ability to um, lie flat to not actually flat, but lie back two
00:44:23
of the beds. And there's a little curtain that you pull around. So So you pop in there on your seat and you pull
00:44:29
the curtain around and that's fine. And I'm lying there trying to go to sleep. I
00:44:32
think we've got six hours or something. And the next minute I get a whack on my
00:44:37
feet and I'm going, "What on earth has happened?" And the person in front of me
00:44:42
have reclined their seat and their head has come through the curtain and is on my feet and all of a sudden they are
00:44:51
literally sleeping in the curtain with us. So um yeah, so maybe the lie flatbed is probably a slightly better way to go,
00:45:00
but actually um the community the fact that there's such a lot of time wasted
00:45:06
in us taking the commercial flights whereas um when we've got a whole delegation with us and media and
00:45:12
everything um we can get to Fenua and get out and um but there's only certain
00:45:18
places we can take it anything further than I think Singapore would always go on the other. So, it is a little it's
00:45:23
it's funny, but you've got to laugh at those things. It's like, you know, we go
00:45:27
into the toilet to get changed. It's like totally boxes. You get bangs and crashes and it's like you emerge, you
00:45:34
know, out of your jammies into, you know, your sweatpants into something. Yeah. >> Oh, that's such a great answer. Jeez,
00:45:41
you're an easy chat. We've been going 50 minutes and we've just sort of been
00:45:44
riffing. Really? >> Oh my gosh. 50 minutes. We have, too. I've got so much more to say,
00:45:48
>> Don. Oh, don't worry. We're just GETTING STARTED. YEAH. HOW LONG HAVE your listeners got?
00:45:55
>> So, okay. Well, let's let's >> peace. Yeah. >> Early early years. So, Amanda Bradley.
00:46:00
Uh, what did she want to do? Or >> Amanda Ray? It was actually Ray. Bradley. Who's that?
00:46:06
>> Oh, that was maybe maybe AI did me dirty. >> Yeah. AI did dirty. Amanda Ray. Yeah.
00:46:11
Yeah. Hence, I'm now Luxom, which is much better to write than Ray. >> Who? Yeah. Who Who was she? What were
00:46:17
her dreams, goals, aspirations? >> Yeah. So, I was really lucky. Um I a lot
00:46:22
of my childhood was based around dance. My mother Yeah. You're quite good, right? Yeah. No, it's terrible. I think
00:46:28
at the long run I've got slightly problematic feet where my second toe is way way way bigger than my first toe,
00:46:34
which when you put it into a pair of point shoes, never works. I think when someone says to you, "You've got such
00:46:40
lovely dance quality." That's like, yeah, technically maybe you're not that great.
00:46:48
But I did No, I did dance. um till very you know all my way through my teens. Um
00:46:53
my mother had always wanted to dance as a child. She came they came from relatively um lut soio economic
00:47:01
background and would have loved to have danced. So I think there was a little bit of um you know living through me and
00:47:07
that was we were only allowed as children one activity and so I um did dance and my mother sewed my point shoes
00:47:14
and sewed all my costumes and so um and it was lovely. It gave me a lot of discipline and I really really did um
00:47:21
like it fundamentally I didn't have the body biomechanics or um the body to have
00:47:29
um gone on and done it professionally. Had I I think I may have um I did have several friends um go on and
00:47:36
professionally dance. Um and we had a really really good school. I did dance for the Southern Ballet Theater as a
00:47:42
junior there and just loved it. It was it was amazing part of my childhood. So yeah, but I did have a quite an insular
00:47:49
childhood I think. Yeah. >> So you lived upstate your parents ran like a cut price store or four square or
00:47:54
something? >> No. Well, look, it was really that it's the days before the big c you know many
00:47:59
people wouldn't know that there were for many years we never had a countdown. I
00:48:03
can remember when the first countdown came to um Christ Church and in fact my father worked out it was coming and
00:48:09
actually ended up deciding to leave sell that current store. But >> so they had like a mini mart or
00:48:15
something. >> Yeah. But in those days it wasn't the mini mart you see because in those days
00:48:19
there wasn't a big you would go to the butcher or you'd go to whatever. So you
00:48:24
know the first store we had we had the petrol pumps we had the deli. We had someone on deli. So they would cut the
00:48:29
meat and her finger off but that was another story. Um and um and so we had everything and we would go and deliver
00:48:36
in the little yellow Morris Miner with the boat up into the Kashmir Hills um all of the groceries and that was your
00:48:43
local store. So for many many years we were your local. It wasn't a a m it was
00:48:49
your supermarket. Um and it was only the point at which the first countdown came
00:48:53
to Christ Church that dad could see that it was going to change. And so he decided to um that that was a good time
00:48:59
to leave because that's when it would have become the corner store. But up until that point he he had everything um
00:49:06
yeah vegetables, fruit, all fresh and beautiful and quite big stores. >> Um
00:49:11
>> wow it's amazing. So entirely independently owned >> entirely. So mom and I'm I'm really
00:49:17
proud of my parents actually. Um they they did an amazing job for us and they both came you know neither had a
00:49:24
tertiary education. They both came from you know quite hard backgrounds and um dad was very good business person. Um
00:49:31
and so they bought their first store which sat on the corner of um Hel Junction Road and yes we lived above it
00:49:39
and we had Johnny the lamb in the backyard and um you know it was it was a lovely life but they worked 24/7. We had
00:49:47
one afternoon off a week and they worked the rest of the time and you know I can
00:49:52
remember being up. Mom would dad ran the store, mom looked after us but she also
00:49:55
supported dad and did quite a bit of the work as well. So they worked as a team.
00:49:59
um and they would be up all hours of the night. But that was fundamentally the transition for our family that that
00:50:05
investment of time and energy then gave them um the money that they needed. He was very successful to then buy a
00:50:12
slightly bigger store um and then a bigger store again. Um so that's that's
00:50:16
really where they um sort of pulled us up which is amazing and you know I went to public school and but I had a lovely
00:50:24
life. I my parents have a lovely relationship and being a the middle child, I never felt like a middle child.
00:50:31
Um I always felt really, you know, um an intricral part. So yeah. So yeah, but I
00:50:37
I think not a big risk-taking life. Um mom and dad bought a caravan um at one stage. Um but dad didn't like towing the
00:50:47
caravan. So, uh, from Christ Church, we would go and our Christmases would be at
00:50:52
Spencer Park or and then it would go out to Wood End. And so, we're talking, you
00:50:57
know, sort of, you know, here to Helensville, you know, or something like that. >> 20K, 30K.
00:51:02
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, that was kind of our Yeah. our growing up.
00:51:06
So, yeah. >> Did you ever rebel or anything? What's the most trouble you got in?
00:51:11
>> Um, the most trouble I got in um was very traumatic for me. And um it took a
00:51:19
year of sleepless nights till my mother worked out I was eight. And um I was annoyed that um my teacher had taken
00:51:29
another class out for PE which he never did with us. And we had to sit and sing which I hate. I'm really bad at singing.
00:51:37
And so I sat at the back and I was grumbling and someone told on me grumbling. Um and I got hauled into the
00:51:44
principal's office. Can you believe it? like a little, you know, 8-year-old girl
00:51:49
that's never done anything wrong. And I got sat at the front door of the office
00:51:55
by this horrible principal who had told me my name was in a book. I was a bad girl and it was in a book. Anyway, a
00:52:03
year later, I finally told my mother and she went down said to the principal, "What's going?" He said, "I didn't put
00:52:08
it in a book. I JUST LIED." IT'S LIKE THIS traumatized child who has fundamentally never put a foot out of
00:52:17
place and you know to be going to the principal's office and yeah anyway >> did you why didn't you tell your mom you
00:52:23
just sat on that for a year was it like shame yeah like you know I felt so much shame because you know I it wasn't even
00:52:33
a big thing it was just a silly grumble with a friend and it was made into something that it wasn't and that was
00:52:39
the life You know, that's what school was like in those days. But there you are. There's my traumatized childhood.
00:52:44
>> What were the what were the big family like rules or values or like was there a
00:52:47
motto? In my family, it was always treat others the way you want to be treated. >> No, we didn't. We we actually as our
00:52:53
family, we do have that, but in my family, it wasn't. I think um it was just I had my parents are really good
00:53:01
people and they did that. They looked after other people. Um my grandmother, you know, spent most of her life looking
00:53:08
after other people as well. So I think we just grew up with that and that was really um yeah, it was just a really
00:53:16
good simple middle class upbringing with really good people around me um and you
00:53:23
know taught me good lessons. So yeah. H >> how are they coping with everything now?
00:53:27
Like you you being in the public eye um Chris Christopher who they've known since he was 15.
00:53:32
>> Yeah. No, my mom and dad have joined the super blue. So, >> um >> were they were they were they always um
00:53:41
sort of national voters? >> Yes. Yes. My my father was um I won't tell you which prime minister he was
00:53:47
very fond of. Um and um so always never really political but always had an opinion on politics as he did about
00:53:56
rugby and wrestling um as he would talk to the um television um on those things as every armchair person does. So yeah,
00:54:04
so they it wasn't as if they had never had any interest at all. They did follow. So um but I think it's you know
00:54:10
they're retired and it actually is something that they get to sort of engage in which maybe they might not
00:54:16
have otherwise. So, um but yeah. Yeah. So, and >> was religion much of a role in your
00:54:24
upbringing? >> Um um no, we didn't attend church as a family other than mom was on the roster
00:54:32
at the um at the local Methodist church. So, you know, we would do Christmases and things like that. So, um it was
00:54:40
never a big part of intuitively what the family was, but it was acknowledged if you know what I mean. Um, and then I
00:54:47
just I just decided in my teens that I wanted to just have a little bit of further exploration of it and got
00:54:55
involved with a um I was dancing in the morning so I had to go to an evening service and there was a Baptist church
00:55:00
down the road so I sort of got started going there um and always sitting in the back because I can't hold a tune. So
00:55:09
that was a little bit embarrassing. Um and that got me into a youth group which gave me a really nice uh community. So a
00:55:15
lot of my teenage years was spent between dancing and the church community and yeah so that that's really where
00:55:22
that was introduced. Um >> I suppose I suppose I suppose your parents were so too busy too busy to go
00:55:28
to church every Sunday running running their business and their family. >> Yeah. Well mom's um parents were
00:55:33
Salvation Army. So I think that sort of says a lot as well that has such a beautiful um service approach Salvation
00:55:39
Army and I respect them so much. So that's what she'd come up through sort
00:55:42
of thing. Yeah. So, the story goes that um you and Christopher met. You were 17,
00:55:48
he was 15. It was at a kitchen at at some at some party or Yeah, >> it was. It was It's a really funny
00:55:55
story. So, they just moved to um Christ Church back from Oakland. And so, um I think they were trying to get involved
00:56:02
in the the churching the youth group. So, they offered up their um house for a progressive dinner. Do you know what
00:56:07
that is? So, >> oh yeah, where you go from someone does the entre, someone does the mains.
00:56:12
>> And attached to that was a car rally. So, you get in a car with four people
00:56:15
and you've got some instructions and you drive around the city and you know your
00:56:20
number six on the left is what color letter box, that sort of thing. And so, the final stop was at their house. Um,
00:56:26
and embarrassingly, um, um, it was a bride wedding, bridesmaid's theme, and I only had
00:56:36
access to one bridesmaid's dress, and it was seriously the most hideous dress I
00:56:41
think I had ever seen in my entire life. So, I turn up in this apricot fluffy thing that was nothing to do with me.
00:56:49
Anyway, we happened to end up in the kitchen together and um and we sort of had a bit of a conversation and then um
00:56:57
yeah, a wee while later I was sitting with my girlfriend in one of the pews. It must have been like a Saturday
00:57:02
afternoon where we were just down there having fun or something for an activity and Chris was sitting over right over
00:57:07
the far side with his friend and I looked over and I said to Nikki, "Oh, look who's over there."
00:57:15
And anyway, I don't know what gave me the courage because that's not really I
00:57:20
didn't have big courage in those days. I was, you know, quite shy. Um, we got up
00:57:25
and we went over and we sat next to them. She on David's side and me on Christopher's side and we just struck up
00:57:31
this really lovely conversation and and we just kept intersecting at a few um activities and then um I made him go to
00:57:40
aerobics with me cuz I was an aerobics instructor at that stage. Um, so he came down in his, you know, footy shorts and
00:57:47
with his lack of hamstring flexibility, which is profound. And he's very sporty, Christopher. Like,
00:57:56
he can pick up any ball or any bat and be really amazing at any sport. That's
00:58:02
why I have to work so hard on my tennis now so that when he's finished, I can be
00:58:06
better than him. >> It'll probably only take him a few months and he'll be better than me.
00:58:11
Yeah. >> Yeah. So we sort of did a few fun things like that. Um and then I actually um
00:58:17
took him as my date to a 21st and Yeah. And that's where it sort of started.
00:58:22
>> Yes. It was like four years after meeting that you started dating. >> Yeah.
00:58:26
>> Did Did you Did were you crushing on him or was he crushing on you? >> It was one of those it was one of those
00:58:32
lovely things where we just bought built this beautiful friendship and No, we're
00:58:37
just friends. Seriously, we're just friends. But you it was just this lovely
00:58:42
build that um he he was just such a fabulous guy and like nobody touched him anywhere close to him. He was so
00:58:50
thoughtful and interesting and he had goals and he was really smart and um there was just nobody else like him. So
00:59:00
that just you know how those things go that you you're just friends but actually it was building. So yeah, it
00:59:06
was quite lovely. Yeah, when I look back, it was a really healthy and good way to start to get to know each other
00:59:11
before you had to, you know, jump into a relationship. So, it was nice. Yeah. >> Yeah. Four years of knowing each other
00:59:17
before before dating is a massive foundation. But, um, some people call that like getting out of the friend
00:59:22
zone, which is can be quite hard after that many that many years. >> That wasn't hard.
00:59:26
>> No. >> So, you you made the leap by asking him to the to the dance or something.
00:59:31
>> Yeah. It was actually I needed a partner to go to a 21st. That was actually on
00:59:36
the night of my 21st, but I'd had mine a month earlier um for a reason. So um
00:59:42
yeah, so he came with me and it was like, yeah, this is this is Yeah, it was a really boring 21st.
00:59:50
>> We might have exited stage, left earlier. Yeah. >> Were you were you a drinker then? You're
00:59:54
both non drinkers now? >> Never. Never. >> What's your reason? Christopher said on
00:59:57
the podcast he he chose not to because his granddad was um an alcoholic and he saw him in a twisted state a couple of
01:00:04
times and he just decided early on it wasn't for him. >> Yeah. Yeah. Interesting question and
01:00:08
totally different from Christopher which was because I was dancing so much. Um I
01:00:14
was never really involved in a lot of sort of um situations where teens were drinking. So it wasn't something that I
01:00:21
really got used to. Then a lot of our activities were sort of friends and so we'd sit around with coffee and just
01:00:27
chat on Friday and Saturday night. So it wasn't something that was necessarily
01:00:32
part of my social scene in the beginning and then with then Christopher didn't
01:00:37
drink either and so um I never really developed the taste for it. Um but the real reason is I don't actually like the
01:00:46
lack of control it gives me. I I fundamentally give me a quarter of a glass of wine and I'll be dancing on the
01:00:55
table. So, it's it's a bit of a risk I think to give me any kind of alcohol. It
01:01:00
goes through my system very quick. There was one f I I have drunk on one occasion
01:01:05
and I was trying to be a really big girl. Christopher and I were on our first vacation away with his parents and
01:01:11
there'd been a little winery over that had just so we thought we'd be really
01:01:14
big people and go over and have dinner and um and they had wine tasting. I'm
01:01:18
thinking, "Oh, why not?" I mean, it tasted like petrol to me and I never
01:01:21
drunk after it. But anyway, I literally had I would say a tasting glass, not a big one. I would say I had half a glass
01:01:28
of that and um Christopher was seen walking me up and down the road before he could take me in. And then he puts me
01:01:35
in a table in the corner and I'm just I can remember it really clearly. I can
01:01:39
remember sitting there just wanting to break down laughing the whole time over nothing. So, I think at that point I
01:01:45
realized I possibly didn't hold my alcohol well. Um, it didn't taste tasted
01:01:50
like petrol anyway. Um, I didn't have, you know, a good control with it, so it
01:01:56
never appealed to me. So, that's really it. >> Yeah. Oh, that's cool.
01:01:59
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I've got no idea what it was like for a um you know for a young girl in
01:02:02
Christ Church at that time. But I I talked about this with Christopher on the podcast like to be um like a guy in
01:02:08
in New Zealand in the the ' 80s or the '90s and the decision not to drink. It
01:02:11
takes a lot of strength of character cuz the peer pressure back then was immense.
01:02:14
>> Yeah. And possibly even more for a guy even than a girl. But actually I don't
01:02:19
think that pressure has really changed terribly much. Um and I think cuz you know my kids went through that stage and
01:02:26
and we said to them, you get to choose. I don't believe in um in um in a environment where you demand of children
01:02:35
or you um you tell I would rather educate children, empower them and then negotiate with them. And so I basically
01:02:44
said you get the choice to drink um firstly not until you're 18 cuz the law says no and if you want to travel
01:02:50
overseas you don't want anything you know to do anything. So that was out, but once that it's up to you, but here's
01:02:56
the research from Stanford University about what alcohol does to your brain. Um, but you get the choice. Um, and so
01:03:03
neither of the kids drunk, you know, through that time. So, and that was she really stood out, but it really comes
01:03:10
back to what is your own self feel and is that self determined by what other people think of you or is it determined
01:03:19
what you believe about yourself? And so Olivia was in a great state because everybody would bring her non-alcoholic
01:03:26
drinks, she would drive the car, she'd hold their head. So they loved her. Um,
01:03:31
and for me it was the same. It was like I don't actually I don't bow to that
01:03:35
pressure, which actually is probably good because that same feeling is implemented now when things are thrown
01:03:41
at me. It's like, well, hold on. That's your circus, your monkey, and you're not
01:03:46
within my sphere of influence. So I'm not going to ask advice from you. So, I'm not going to take your criticism.
01:03:51
So, I know within myself who I am. I know my strengths and my weaknesses. Um, and I've got a very close group of
01:03:59
people around me that I respect and love me and will, you know, speak to me what
01:04:03
I need to hear. So, um, it's all about self-concept, I think, with kids that,
01:04:09
um, if they feel good about themselves, then they don't necessarily need to do
01:04:13
things for other people. Um, and I think that's one of the things I'm really
01:04:16
grateful for is both our kids kind of knew who they were. Um, and never really needed to be influenced by pressure
01:04:25
terribly much. Yeah. >> Yeah. It seems like you you guys did a good um job of um parenting. Like there
01:04:30
was a there was a couple of things I read which I really liked. One was um like discouraging them from social media
01:04:34
and saying you should pick 10 people. >> Yeah. It was really good. >> 10 people as your circle of friends and
01:04:39
uh that that gives you like a a range of opinions of people that will have your best interest at heart. And another
01:04:44
thing I really like >> and we wrote them on a card and put them in their bags as well. Yeah. So they
01:04:47
>> So who were they like like mom, dad, dad, nana, you know, those kind of
01:04:51
things. And a few very close friends that we know really love our kids. We've
01:04:55
got a beautiful group of friends that we sort of, you know, I've got daughters to
01:04:59
another mother and um and those women have just got our kids best interests at heart. Um so they'd be on the list and
01:05:06
things like that. Yeah. So >> I like that one. And there was another one. Whenever you had people over for
01:05:10
dinner, uh the kids had to sit at the table and and ask them three questions. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's really good. Yeah. It's
01:05:15
like um but they're all little things, but um >> it's it's only little, but it takes an
01:05:20
effort to have these things and stick with them. >> And it is and you actually have to start
01:05:23
these things earlier because, you know, we were talking before, what do we want from our kids? We want them to be um we
01:05:29
basically want them to get to a stage where you can trust that they can go out into the world and make really good
01:05:36
decisions. um they might not always be the exact decision you might make, but they're good decisions based on critical
01:05:46
thinking and good facts and and what they know. So that's what you want to get to, but that doesn't happen
01:05:52
overnight at a click of fingers. So you need to start early and you need to educate your kids right from little is
01:06:00
why do you not take somebody else's toy you know instead of just saying dictatorally don't take their toy you're
01:06:07
naughty and stick them in a corner none of you know that kind of stuff doesn't
01:06:10
work and you see it with teenagers they want to have a sense of ownership and control over what they do in their life
01:06:18
and so you can give that to them as a little one you say do you want the red pajamas or the blue pajamas darling you
01:06:22
will wear pajamas But you can choose, you know, and Yeah. Yeah. You don't know
01:06:27
I'm giving you a false choice, but you get to choose and you're empowered and
01:06:31
you you you take that on as as a process. So, and that just changes a little bit. And it's the same with the,
01:06:38
you know, the drinking later on. You get to choose and I trust you till I don't
01:06:43
trust you. Um, so you keep my trust. So, you sort of educate around the issues. You empower them to make the decisions
01:06:51
and then you negotiate. So, if they're drinking, you go, "That's great. You can
01:06:54
drink. Um, I think that you should only have two drinks tonight. I want six."
01:06:59
Yeah. Okay. Okay. You can have three and that's it. And if you stick to that,
01:07:03
then I continue to trust you. But you're empowered to make that decision and you
01:07:07
control that. And they will do. You know, nine times out, they don't want to
01:07:12
disappoint you, but they want to have some control and freedom. So, I think it's a really powerful process. And then
01:07:18
the other really important thing is that they're going to muck up. you know,
01:07:21
they're going to >> that's a human experience. >> Oh, yeah. Look, you learn from that. And
01:07:25
I'd always say to the kids, particularly with schooling things, if the consequences for your behavior outweigh
01:07:32
the activity, um, I will step in, okay? And I will do it or I will step in when you ask. So, I would encourage them to
01:07:41
fight their own battles up front. But when it got to the point that there was an you know unequal power balance
01:07:47
between something that was going on and um she is no longer able to fight for herself because there's an imbalance
01:07:56
then I will come in but but um she she will ask and I will step in when she asks me to. So you give them the lead
01:08:03
and then when they need it. But the other important thing is that when they do muck up then actually how do you
01:08:09
respond to that? Because you the most important thing is you maintain relationship and you don't alienate. And
01:08:15
when kids muck up they're in this horrible stage of feeling bad and and not knowing what to do and they've
01:08:23
disappointed or they've shame whatever it is. And a really good friend said the
01:08:27
best thing to me. She said, "Whenever something happens, the most important
01:08:32
thing is what you say to them the minute that you first see them." >> So, do they a friend had a daughter that
01:08:42
she had to go and retrieve from the hospital? And so, the choice there was, do I go in
01:08:47
and go, you idiot, I trusted you, blah blah blah blah blah, and alienate her from that relationship? Or do you go in
01:08:54
and say, "Oh, I am so thankful. You are okay. I love you. Let me help you. Let's
01:09:02
go home." Now, later on, you can have the conversation. But in those moments, what comes out of
01:09:09
your mouth is the message they will remember. And is that a message of you're going to muck up, but I love and
01:09:15
support you anyway? I might not have agreed, but in this moment, I am your safe space. I am your champion. I am
01:09:22
here for you and that maintains the relationship and then they will come back to you. But if you alienate them,
01:09:29
make them feel bad, it it's just the attack. So that's personally how I've
01:09:34
managed that as we've gone through which is I'll stand and be the person that you
01:09:38
can't be in the times that you need me to and when things go wrong I'll be
01:09:43
there to support you and then we'll work it out later. Yeah. So >> like your mom going into the school
01:09:48
after she found the headmaster wrote your name in the book. >> Dead right. You are dead right.
01:09:52
>> Exactly the same. I mean what you were saying is great but it takes a lot of
01:09:55
self-control I think as a parent to to think okay this is this is my urge is to say this
01:10:01
>> um versus okay what should I say right now that is not what is on the top of my
01:10:06
tongue. >> So that comes with the premise that you think parenting is easy.
01:10:10
>> That's the first mistake you make. And I think the most one of the things I've
01:10:15
really enjoyed about parenting in some respect and hated in others is that if you're prepared, you can learn such a
01:10:22
lot about your own self. So if you want to go in and you know dress down a child
01:10:26
who's in has made a big mistake and is in a really bad state, what are you doing that for actually? Are you doing
01:10:33
it out of your own anger and frustration and annoyance or is that coming um from
01:10:39
a place of of love which generally is more the the latter? And so if something's happening for your children,
01:10:45
you can go that child is naughty or that child is this or that child is that or you could peel it back and not blame
01:10:52
yourself but go okay what is happening for that child that is causing a behavior because children don't
01:10:59
naturally want to behave badly. they don't want to disappoint. There'll be a
01:11:03
reason why they are acting out or something's happening. And so I think I've learned a huge about about myself
01:11:11
and actually changed quite a lot about myself. Um the the the label maker is Christopher and my best friend. Um and
01:11:19
so so when you look at that, you know, as a couple you can be that way, but with children who will step over washing
01:11:28
to go to their bedroom and say, "I didn't see it. or you know their floor is you know um
01:11:36
the wardrobe then you again you can approach that two ways and say um you know I'm going to impose my value and
01:11:44
whatever on that or I can help you learn how to you know manage yourself or whatever but I think as a person now
01:11:51
compared to before I had children um I'm I'm more um relaxed and accepting of the different
01:12:01
ways things can be done. Um, and um, I think that's been one thing personally
01:12:07
I've learned. So, parenting is two things. It's about parenting your children, but it's also this beautiful
01:12:12
self-discovery if you want to. A lot of people don't want to, and that's hard.
01:12:17
That's that's hard work. So, yeah. So, it's often just taking that moment and
01:12:21
thinking this is naturally what I would like to do. Um, what would be the best thing in this situation? Now, I'd like
01:12:28
to preface that I have made a number of very bad parenting mistakes in my life, which I think my children might remind
01:12:36
me about, but these are just the beautiful things that you learn um as you do. You make your own mistakes and
01:12:41
then you go, "Oh, I wish I'd had someone to tell me that or I wish I'd had
01:12:44
someone to give me that advice." Um and living overseas, we didn't have a big
01:12:48
community around us when our children were little. So, it was Christopher and I as the, you know, we were it we didn't
01:12:54
have that community. So um coming back to New Zealand we did which was lovely but in those early years. Yeah.
01:13:00
>> How's the last couple of years been for them? >> For the kids.
01:13:03
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How how have they come to the the adjustment? >> Yeah. Yeah. Another really good question
01:13:07
and I think the really important thing to mention here is that I said to Christopher that he was I made the stand
01:13:15
that he was not allowed to go into politics until Olivia had left school. >> So um
01:13:20
>> what why what did you base that on? Was that on seeing Obama's kids or John Ke?
01:13:24
I just think that um you think of the amount of scrutiny that we can come come under and children um are not immune to
01:13:33
that. So it's like um in New Zealand we like to pull people down unfortunately.
01:13:38
So you know when someone's doing well we like to sort of attack it rather than
01:13:42
build it up. So, but um yeah, it's just that whole concept of once they became
01:13:49
adults um they then were in a position to make a decision for themselves rather than us putting that decision onto them
01:13:58
whether or not how much they wanted to um enter into that. Now, it is difficult for them when things are said in the
01:14:06
media about their father who they know it's untrue. Um but um that's also a
01:14:14
good lesson for them to learn and we've tried to teach them about that circle of
01:14:18
influence type thing. So they're they're pretty good with that. Um and so at
01:14:22
least we allowed them to be in a position to choose. So if they decide to come and stand up at the opening of the
01:14:30
campaign or whatever, that is their choice. We don't make them do that. If they do a an article in the paper, um
01:14:37
they choose to come in or out. Um, it's been really lovely. I've hated it on one
01:14:42
sense cuz I'm very close with Olivia, but her being in Melbourne has been quite nice for her in that she's really
01:14:49
been out of that sphere and has just been able to really develop as a, you know, those early 20s are just such
01:14:56
important, you know, foundational time for learning who you are and how to turn the mains off. Um and um you know so
01:15:03
she's had that um opportunity over there and so she can choose to come back into
01:15:08
it and she's got a beautiful group of friends and a lovely job. So so that's
01:15:12
really good. So >> well that three-hour flight just gives you a bit of breathing space, doesn't
01:15:15
it? >> Yeah. Yeah. No, it does. Um and so so we were very conscious about making sure
01:15:20
we've protected them as much as we can, but also they're really proud of their
01:15:23
father. like um they don't publicly talk about it, but actually, you know, they
01:15:31
find out what dad's doing through the social media and so they love him and they know he's doing what he wants to do
01:15:36
and and they're proud of their father who's, you know, done an amazing thing.
01:15:40
So there's only 42 people that have done that job before Christopher. So yeah, so
01:15:44
I think there's a nice mixture there. >> That was a nice little diversion. Um
01:15:50
yeah, thanks for sharing that. These these are nice little insights. Um, okay. So, who said I love you first?
01:15:57
>> Oh, look, I think it was together. >> Someone Someone's always got to be the I
01:16:03
know it's a long time ago. Someone's got to be the courageous one. >> I don't I actually don't know. I
01:16:08
actually cannot tell you that. Um, yeah. I don't know. Did you ask him? I don't
01:16:14
know. I'm going to ask him tonight. No, I can't remember. Sorry. Sorry. >> What about the proposal? How did that
01:16:18
happen? >> Oh, that was quite lovely. Um Christopher was actually working in
01:16:21
Wellington cuz he had started with Uni Lever so he was being he was on the global management program so he was sort
01:16:27
of shifting around. Um so he came um it was Easter actually and he had come down
01:16:33
um and he took me to Tiffany's which was a little bit of a flash. Yeah. It was a
01:16:38
bit posh in those days and um >> it's posh now. >> Yeah it's posh. Yeah. No different
01:16:43
Tiffany's. Not that Tiffany's. Sorry. >> Sorry. What are you talking about? Yeah,
01:16:48
I was a restaurant on >> No, no, no. Um, so no, it was a restaurant in Christ Church on the Avon.
01:16:56
So, and so he um Yeah. So, he got down on one knee and asked me. So, that was really lovely. Yeah.
01:17:01
>> Did you have an inkling it was coming? >> I only did. I did because um he was away
01:17:09
and it was just a sort of Yeah, we had to be we're we're relatively planned
01:17:13
people. We're quite conscious about all the decisions that we make. So we had
01:17:18
had a discussion about it. So yeah. >> Yeah. He he told me something in the
01:17:23
podcast that you guys do and he said, "Oh, people will probably find this a
01:17:26
bit weird." And and it it it definitely is a little bit weird, I think, in the
01:17:29
respect. >> Okay. Weird is a very negative word. Um yeah, it is original. Could we call it
01:17:33
original? Now, the thing he was talking about was um and I don't know if you
01:17:36
still do this now, but he said you you'd um ship the kids off to their grandparents um over summer break, New
01:17:42
Year's, and you two would spend a couple of days in a hotel and you just like
01:17:46
write out plans, you know, goals goals for the year personally, as a couple, and as a family. And he said, "Oh, it's
01:17:51
probably a bit weird." And it is a little bit weird, but it's it's it's
01:17:54
only weird because I think most people would like the idea of it and would do it, go into the year with a with a head
01:17:59
full of steam, and then it would sort of peter off or fizzle out. You guys still
01:18:04
do this? True. And I can literally remember sitting in the car while we were dating and you know Christ Church
01:18:12
and the car steaming up because we were inside it and drawing on the window um various plans and ideas and goals. Um
01:18:20
and so I guess it's something that um we've always tried to be very um considered about what we do and we've
01:18:29
made some really big changes in our life. Um and those changes have required a lot of um emotional sort of thought
01:18:38
and uh fact hunting and things like that. Um and even now today when we have a we have to make a decision on
01:18:45
something, we will talk about it. We'll move away. We'll come back to it cuz
01:18:49
it's amazing how things change as you think about it. But everything we have
01:18:54
done and decided it has been joint. Christopher going into politics was a joint decision. he would never do
01:18:59
anything unless I agreed and I would never do anything unless um he agreed. So we really do live together with a
01:19:05
very common um set of values and goals. So it is very helpful to start at the beginning of the year and go what is it
01:19:13
that we want to achieve throughout this year because otherwise you could easily lose a year and get to the end and go
01:19:21
wow we didn't actually we weren't really thoughtful about what we might have
01:19:24
wanted to achieve in that year and the different phases and stages of your life are really different. So, when we were
01:19:30
younger, it might have been um you know, maybe some travel or how we'd like the
01:19:35
kids to develop or those kind of things. You know, now it's very different kind
01:19:39
of goals that we would set. Um yeah, so it changes, but it's just a nice way to
01:19:44
start and check in and make sure you're on the same page, and that your train
01:19:47
tracks aren't going that way, your train tracks are going this way. Um yeah, it's
01:19:51
important. M >> have you had to put any of your dreams on hold in order to to help him pursue
01:19:58
his dreams and his big jobs? >> Um I don't think I think one of the things that I love most about
01:20:05
Christopher and really really appreciate is right from when we first met he was very very um
01:20:15
strong on me um developing and doing those things that I wanted to do. and he would do
01:20:23
everything he could to help facilitate me do that along the way. And so we have I made a choice um when the children
01:20:31
were young that we were traveling a lot. So I decided the best thing for the family was that I would concentrate on
01:20:37
family and I did nonprofit consulting and the odd consulting job but I really wanted to do that. That's not for
01:20:44
everyone but it worked for us and our lifestyle. So often our dreams um are kind of quite linked because we've got
01:20:51
that same common thing. And even with the politics, it's not so much a dream
01:20:55
of mine, but the mission is really that you want to use we've taught our children. You've got all these skills
01:21:03
and abilities and they are they mean nothing unless you can use those to actually better the lives of others that
01:21:11
haven't had your advantages. And so we've tried to really live that out. And
01:21:14
so him leaving corporate life and coming into this um is just a little bit of a an example of how um that happened. So
01:21:22
our dreams are kind of quite aligned. My dream at the moment is like to you know
01:21:28
play the Australian Open. But I I don't think that's going to happen. I think
01:21:31
that should be fast. >> Unless they have you have you looked at looked into pickle ball?
01:21:36
>> Oh my gosh. I'm I Okay. So So until Christmas it was like pickle ball is not
01:21:42
real tennis. It's like, you know, tennis is tennis and pickle ball is not real.
01:21:47
Anyway, at Christmas time, what I did was a friend said, "I've got a pickle
01:21:51
ball, you know, net." And I thought, "Oh, that would be really fun." So, we
01:21:55
had just enough highly compromised space in our in Wiki. It was on a sort of a a
01:22:02
slight rhombus sort of look to it. I managed to map out a pickle ball court and I had the, you know, the pickle ball
01:22:10
net and I thought it would be quite a nice thing for us to do together. Um, you know, I wasn't convinced about
01:22:15
pickle. We had so much fun and both my kids learned tennis, but you know, I haven't played for a while, so I thought
01:22:22
they wouldn't be that. They were both fantastic and we just we had so much fun. So, I will be the first to put my
01:22:30
hand up and say I was wrong about pickle ball. I love pickle ball. Um and I Yeah.
01:22:36
So, um Yeah. No, I love pickle ball. >> It's um It's a bit slower and a bit
01:22:40
easier than tennis, isn't it? >> Oh, it's not. No, I tell you that you
01:22:45
can absolutely whack that ball like nothing cuz there's no bounce in it. So,
01:22:50
it's like a plastic thing and you can take every ounce of frustration out on
01:22:54
that. And as long as you got enough spin on it, I mean, you can you can give that
01:22:59
the ball. I think that's what I liked most about it. >> Jess, I can tell you've got this this
01:23:03
real like almost mean competitive streak. >> Oh, please. Oh, please, Tom. >> Oh, please. I came on as a friend.
01:23:13
>> No, you But you you don't want to be beaten. You don't want to lose. Even if
01:23:16
it was like a casual cas casual game of tennis or >> um it's competitiveness in certain
01:23:23
areas. Um and that could be one of the areas. Um, but in my defense, I mean, tennis is a competitive game, so why
01:23:32
would you play if you didn't want uh to win? And I'm competitive with a smile.
01:23:38
I'm very nice with my competitiveness, but yeah, there could be a slight competitive. I just I also think I only
01:23:45
took up um I only took it up like 10 11 years ago. And I just think is an amazing that at my age you can actually
01:23:53
take up a new sport and and you can actually get better at it and have fun with it and it's very good socially. Um
01:24:02
it's it's yeah it's just an all-encompassing yeahity. Yeah. >> Um one thing that we we haven't sort of
01:24:08
acknowledged is um I've had like a lot of reasonably highprofile like CEOs and
01:24:12
business people on the podcast and um they they all acknowledge this the sacrifice they have to make in terms of
01:24:17
like the family and the cost cuz it's only 24 hours in the day. Yeah. >> So, I think it's worth acknowledged,
01:24:33
is he is he usually aware of what's in there or is it a surprise for him? >> Yes. He goes down to David Jones with
01:24:40
his security team and buys No, no. >> Well, I think there's there's a lot of a
01:24:46
lot of people with busy jobs that would be able to relate to that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Now, what I would like to
01:24:50
say is that this is one of those unusual things. Um, I never ironed one of Christopher's shirts until he became
01:24:57
prime minister. That was just they are your shirts. You iron your shirts. So, there's a lot of things I might do now
01:25:03
that I have never done. Um, and he's very organized and very self-sufficient,
01:25:08
but he just doesn't have the time at the moment. And so if that's something that
01:25:12
I can take off him that allows him to focus and concentrate on um the really important things at the moment. He still
01:25:20
does his own stuff in Wellington, but if he is at home, I sort of manage all of that stuff here. So um yeah. So yeah.
01:25:29
>> Oh, that's cool. >> Yeah. >> Oh, good on you. I I um Yeah, I like the
01:25:34
way you like your smile when you talk about him. And you always call him Christopher A. It's never abbreviated.
01:25:38
>> Well, he's not Chris. He's Christopher. >> Yeah. >> It's so much easier just saying Chris
01:25:44
though, isn't it? >> I don't think to me he's not Chris though. Like Chris is not He is
01:25:49
Christopher to me and um I've always called him Christopher and I love that name for him and um and that was what
01:25:58
his parents named him. So I get that actually it's much easier and he's happy
01:26:02
either way. Um but I don't want to be called Mandy. >> Oh, good to know. Okay, I'll scrape that
01:26:09
off. >> Yeah, if you could take Mandy, what do you think off the bottom there?
01:26:13
>> What's What's something very normal uh like a moment that you two share that
01:26:17
people wouldn't expect? >> Um dance parties in the kitchen. Um >> actually just the two of you.
01:26:24
>> Oh, absolutely. Or actually in the bathroom in the morning. Um Christopher
01:26:28
is really um Christopher and Olivia in particular are um are very very good musicians. As you can tell, I'm a
01:26:35
Nickelback person. they don't really appreciate my taste. Um, I am trying to
01:26:40
enter into it with them, but they will share music between each other. They've
01:26:44
got this really beautiful relationship and they'll share each other music. And
01:26:47
then when Christopher is away, he will send me songs in the morning if he's not
01:26:52
there. And it will be something that's quite nice that sort of gives me a thought for the day or one that he's
01:26:56
found that might express what he thinks about me or something like that. And so,
01:27:00
um, and and he likes having music going. um I don't necessarily like it when I'm
01:27:06
doing bits and pieces, but he loves it. And so if we're if he's home, then um
01:27:10
music will go in in the morning and in most mornings there would be a sort of a we would have a bit of a dance around
01:27:16
that. So that's um yeah, we do that which is fun. Um >> that's really romantic.
01:27:21
>> Yeah, it's just really lovely. It's like music is good for your soul and it's
01:27:26
something we both like. I've come up dancing and um yeah, it's just really
01:27:30
cool. It's a nice thing to do. Yeah. I I think um there'll be a lot of people
01:27:36
listening to this that are in relationships in their 50s that probably hear this and feel a little bit bummed
01:27:40
out by their own by their own that aren't in the same sort of space. >> And I don't mean that I don't mean to do
01:27:46
that to people and I understand how that might make people >> No, it's it's more about them and what's
01:27:52
going on than you and what's going on. That's that's uh that's really sweet
01:27:55
though. >> Yeah. I mean, I think we've worked and you know, relationships are not easy
01:28:01
either and they require a huge amount of um give and take. But I think the key thing and I'll often say to young
01:28:08
couples that are getting married, you you know um marriage and love is is a choice and you both have to choose to be
01:28:16
in that and to love each other and um if one chooses it doesn't matter how much
01:28:21
the other is in it's never going to work. And so I think one of the things that I love and appreciate about
01:28:28
Christopher the most is that literally the last thing he'll say to me before he
01:28:32
goes to sleep at night when he's at home um is or if we're on the phone is he
01:28:37
he'll say I love you and and he doesn't need to keep telling me he loves me but
01:28:41
it's just acknowledging that and then you know in the morning it will be the
01:28:47
same sort of thing and it's just really nice to to have that and you know each
01:28:51
morning you things are going to happen the day and you goodness knows what, but you choose to put the other person I
01:28:58
always maintain and it sounds a bit weird but I maintain if I put and look after if I put Christopher's needs up
01:29:07
front and he puts my needs up front per se if kind of if you know what I mean and we're both looking out for each
01:29:13
other then we're both looked after and I think there is a huge gift in giving in
01:29:21
a relationship other than taking And a huge um part of a relationship is giving of
01:29:27
yourself and and for another person. And and you know as a I guess I'm a giftgiver, but if you talk to people
01:29:35
where do they get great joy? Do they get more joy giving something or or getting
01:29:39
something back? Um and often they'll say it's you know giving something. So I
01:29:44
think that's a a lovely thing about the relationship which is you're always
01:29:48
looking out to what can I do to help them or make their life better or how can I help you do so what can I help
01:29:55
what can I do to help you help yourself to help other people sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah.
01:30:00
>> But no marriage gets to 32 years without at least some scarring on the back. What
01:30:05
um big any standout arguments? Any big arguments? What's he must do things that
01:30:10
does does it piss you off how much Pepsi Max he drinks? Absolutely. Because you know, aspartame is 10 times more um
01:30:17
sweet than he doesn't seem to respond to my um education part of that. Drink it,
01:30:23
but drink it straight away. Do not sip it. Um um Oh, I think it's I think it's
01:30:28
funny. Look, I think on the big major issues, we don't argue. Um because we've
01:30:34
learned to sit down and really work the issues through and and we respect each other on that. I mean, I think that the
01:30:41
biggest bug bear at the moment, other than him taking the call in the kitchen, is that um, you know, his brain is going
01:30:48
the whole time. And so, one way that I think he can slightly wind down before he goes to bed is he gets onto the phone
01:30:54
and he starts looking at reals and funny reels and whatever else. And and and that's great. And so I'm on the other
01:31:00
side of the bed going um trying to read the news without reading the news cuz I don't want to read anything that's bad
01:31:06
before bed, but I need to catch up and I need to do that. And and he thinks in his own delightful way that he needs to
01:31:13
keep sharing with me all of the funny things that he sees. Um and I don't actually need to join into
01:31:22
that experience all the time with him, but he wants to share his joy with me. like you can keep that joy to yourself,
01:31:29
babe. And he keeps asking me if I want to buy, you know, an old Austin 1300. And it's like, I didn't like my Austin
01:31:36
1300. The first one. >> Yeah. Yeah. Like, no. He's got a Riley Elf, you see. And it's like, which was
01:31:42
his first. It's like I hated my Austin 1300. I do not want another one. And I
01:31:46
do not need a Riley bike. So, yeah. So, >> does does he have a genre of memes that
01:31:52
he shares? Is it generally? >> No. No. No. It's more um um it depends what he's on. Sometimes it will be um
01:32:00
home improvements. Oh, look at this. Look at these automatic curtains. And so I'll get these things sent to me at
01:32:07
random times. You know, this is the best thing on Amazon this year and it's an
01:32:10
organizational thing or you know there's a fabulous um you know reel of this
01:32:16
father and his son at the moment and this boy's like two and he's the most
01:32:19
phenomenal baseball player and it's the father teaching him. I mean it's
01:32:23
amazing. It's totally amazing. He'll be in the leagues. But this little boy
01:32:27
doing all these amazing things which he thinks is fabulous and it's good the
01:32:30
first time but not the 20th time. >> Oh, that's so funny. That's like my
01:32:34
girlfriend. Uh after this podcast, I'll turn my phone back on and in my inbox
01:32:38
there'll be like five different things and some of them I'll start watching.
01:32:40
They're really long. >> Yeah, it's like Yeah, I I don't have social media for a reason, honey.
01:32:46
>> Yeah, sometimes I'll just love heart them and not even watch them. >> You get caught out. Did you see that?
01:32:53
>> Which one was that, babe? I'll just go back and have another look. Yeah.
01:32:56
>> Behind closed doors, what do you think has been his hardest moment as prime
01:32:59
minister so far? >> Um I just Yeah, look, I don't know. I think that's really one for him um to answer.
01:33:09
I think just the frustration around that I have shared around >> um people aren't getting the full story.
01:33:16
Um, and I think it's it's it's hard because you know what you're doing and
01:33:21
you know your competency and you know your values and you know why you're there and and and people are making
01:33:27
those decisions for you. So I think that's the hardest thing. Yeah. >> Yeah. Just completely um misrepresented.
01:33:32
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> It's got to be the hard thing. I I wonder if it's even harder for say his
01:33:36
parents than what it is for you. Like >> I just think about how how defensive my
01:33:39
mom is of me. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and I think that's interesting because I think there are
01:33:44
certainly times that I think um that it is really hard for a mom to watch again your own son um whom you know to not be
01:33:53
what's being represented um and you've done you've spent your life you know
01:33:59
with this person and and um and so that must be very hard for her and I know it is at times um but she's very good as
01:34:06
well. She's very centered um and so she has ways of managing that. Yeah. >> What about you? What what's been your
01:34:12
hardest day as wife of the current prime minister? >> Oh, I don't know about that. I think
01:34:21
wife is the prime minister. I think possibly when it comes back to a justice thing. I think the biggest thing for me
01:34:30
is when there's blatant in injustice would be the hardest thing for me. So, and there's, you know, various moments
01:34:37
of that, not one particular one, I think. >> Yeah. something we we talked about
01:34:41
earlier. I had that quote from um you on Petra's gray areas podcast and you have
01:34:46
mentioned um the term critical thinking a couple of times like how can we change
01:34:51
that? >> Yeah, >> how can we go back to >> I think that's really interesting. I
01:34:55
think it needs to start right back with our children. Um we are not teaching our
01:35:00
children how to be critical thinkers. I mean anywhere through our education system. We're not encouraging people to
01:35:06
go what is the source of the information. And I think that's the key thing. So we're getting online, someone
01:35:12
saying something about something. You can go anywhere and find somebody to reinforce your values. Probably two or
01:35:17
three people, but we're not taking it the next step which says you need to make an informed decision for yourself
01:35:24
and you need to understand the issues. So a lot of people that you'll hear out
01:35:28
and about with very loud voices, they may not even actually understand the issues particularly well. And a lot of
01:35:34
the issues are very complicated issues. They're not a simple this or this. And
01:35:40
um and so we just need to encourage people to say what you see online because it's said it's not necessarily
01:35:48
true. You may agree with that comment, but please make an informed decision about your agreement. So go back, look
01:35:57
at what was their source, fact check, you know, but that's just not the era we're in. But I think it's actually
01:36:03
quite detrimental. So, I would love to be able to see that critical thinking and encouraging our children when
01:36:10
they're viewing stuff online because it's taking off. We can't control what
01:36:15
is going to happen in the future online. Um, we make policies for things now. In
01:36:20
a year, they'll be outdated, but we're not changing the policy for 10 years. So
01:36:25
what we need to do is we need to teach our children the skills to manage the everchanging landscape
01:36:32
that they're going to be diving into and we don't even know what that landscape
01:36:36
is. I mean would we have thought x number of months ago that we would have the war that we've got going on now. Um
01:36:43
so we just it's very unpredictable what's going to happen in the future but
01:36:48
if we and it's a little bit like the social media for our young kids and things like that. We need to equip them
01:36:54
with the skills that they have um tools to be able to um deal with the stuff that is going to come their way. We
01:37:03
can't control that stuff. So why don't we upskill our kids? Um we upskill them
01:37:08
on resilience um around what they see on social media. We upskill them on understanding
01:37:16
why people would do things and how would they respond if they see something online that
01:37:22
um they're concerned about what do they do with that you know it will either get
01:37:28
absorbed or have they got mechanisms to go and talk to someone have they got some you know so a lot of things like
01:37:34
that and I'd love to be able to see us really building all of those skills in
01:37:39
our kids they don't need to know they do need to know but you A lot of the computational stuff is
01:37:46
being done by computers, but the critical thinking um is never going to be taken over by AI. So, you
01:37:55
know, we can see where AI is going, but actually if you just um >> depending on what question you put into
01:38:01
AI depends on your answer because it's only sourcing the information. So, you've got to be able to sift through
01:38:07
that and go, it doesn't feel right based on the skills that I've got. So that's
01:38:12
the critical thinking I'd love to see. >> Have Have you always been big into this
01:38:16
or is this something that's just sort of um you've been awakened to through this
01:38:19
whole political journey over the last 5, seven years, however long it's been?
01:38:23
>> No. No. Well, I've come from an education background. So I was a teacher
01:38:26
and then through. So I personally believe that education is the key to choice and freedom. So
01:38:34
education is so important. And if there's one thing we can do for our children that will give them choice
01:38:40
later on in life is to make sure that they are getting an education that will um stand them well in all circumstances
01:38:48
no matter what they are. Now that could be an education a school education but it's also an education around that wider
01:38:57
understanding and we have to equip our children. So I've seen where children
01:39:02
haven't been equipped and the horrendous you know that happens because of that
01:39:08
and the very sad things that will happen because of that and I've also observed
01:39:12
children that have been able to have you know um have those skills um presented to them and how that is quite
01:39:20
life-changing. So no this is >> it's not something new. >> No no it's it just changes its form
01:39:27
doesn't it? But again, what I was saying is we don't know what's ahead, but the
01:39:31
skills are the same. Um, self-esteem, critical thinking, um, negotiation, all those little skills, they're what will
01:39:40
carry us through and they're enduring the the topic will change, but that will
01:39:44
stay the same. Yeah. >> Th this whole experience um, you know, being um, the the wife of the prime
01:39:51
minister and before that the wife of the leader of the opposition, what's what
01:39:55
has it taught you about yourself, if anything? There's a huge number of really amazing people um out there. We
01:40:02
have got people in New Zealand doing the most incredible things that we don't
01:40:06
really hear about. The doctor who discovered the laser to remove the the strawberry um
01:40:14
>> birthark. Um there's a guy in some shed who produced a chip that is in every
01:40:21
single computer throughout the world. Um there is a family, the Robinsons, who you know gave $20 million to Predator
01:40:30
Free, but we don't we don't know about all of those things. So, I think the
01:40:34
beauty for me is having the privilege to be able to meet so many amazing people um and in both jobs actually and and
01:40:43
just be able to sit and and hear their stories and the journeys that they've
01:40:48
been on and the learnings they've had and um people just give a lot and they
01:40:54
go through a lot and learn a lot and um just their experiences give them this beautiful richness and um and I just I
01:41:02
think being able to learn from other people and their experiences and um is just you know it's a real privilege. So
01:41:10
I think that I have just met some really amazing people which is what I've loved.
01:41:14
Yeah. >> Oh yeah that's definitely one thing I've got from you doing this. Oh thank you.
01:41:18
Uh, one thing I've got from doing this this podcast like you realize there's so
01:41:22
many Kiwis out there doing like just incredible stuff like whether it's gosh
01:41:25
to Rod Drury who found Zero which is like an international company or Peter Be with Rocket Lab or the
01:41:31
>> mobile you know there's a guy that has developed a system to troll the seas and
01:41:36
pick up um all the tiny little micro particles and he just brings in and they all did this from a meaning and purpose.
01:41:45
they wanted to do something and achieve something. And there's just lots of ingenuity in New Zealand. I mean, you
01:41:51
know, I I just even look at some of the designers I've been in and their desire
01:41:56
to help keep cultivating um you know, young people coming through and yeah, you know, the Dingle Foundation and you
01:42:03
go, "Wow, what a amazing change you've made to young people's lives." And New
01:42:08
Zealand's a amazing place and incredible people and yeah. >> Well, once this chapter is done,
01:42:14
whenever that may be, where do where do you think you'll be based? Do you have
01:42:17
where's your favorite place to live in the world outside in New Zealand? >> Yeah, interesting question. Um, and
01:42:22
we've lived in a few places and really to me the place is second to actually um
01:42:30
I I I' say I'd sleep in a tent. Now, whether I would sleep in a tent, I' I'd
01:42:34
kind of like a toilet in the tent. Um but um but I have slept in some very extreme places. Um um but really to be
01:42:44
honest and I don't want to be glib but I would live anywhere with Christopher. I
01:42:48
mean as long as we're together and um ideally I'd like to live you know closer
01:42:53
to Olivia but at the moment that's not going to happen. Um and so I think every
01:43:00
country that we've been to and live at has advantages and different advantages.
01:43:05
So, I think you just choose and um yeah, we'd like to spend a little bit more
01:43:11
time not working um after this considering how much time I' I'd like to make sure that Christopher promised me 6
01:43:17
months nearly a year after he left New Zealand. Um and I got three weeks. So, so after this we need to just go away
01:43:26
whenever we finish and we just need to concentrate on um some other things and then we'll deal with that afterwards.
01:43:32
But um yeah, we haven't we've sort of talked about it, but we haven't really
01:43:37
this is so all-encompassing that there's not really much of a thought of afterwards at this stage. Yeah.
01:43:42
>> Well, say good luck with getting six months out of him. Like he's he's a very
01:43:45
energetic guy. He's not sitting still for more than >> No, no, no. He can't still for So, what
01:43:50
happens is we'll we'll get away and it will be like, "Oh, oh, the phone's not
01:43:54
ringing." I mean, this really happens. And then it will be like, "Oh, do you
01:43:59
think we should um knock that wall out? Do you think we should just change that?
01:44:05
He's the big picture thinker in the family. I'm the doer." Do you think, and
01:44:09
it's like before we go away, I go, if you mention any big picture thinking for
01:44:14
the next three days, okay, you can get on the next boat and go home. So, so you can see his mind moving. So, I give him,
01:44:22
you know, a couple of weeks and then um >> on to the next. >> Yeah. No, I think there's lots of things
01:44:28
he'd love to do. He loves ancestry. He loves, you know, he really wants to spend some time just really sort of
01:44:34
getting fit again and a few things like that. So, there's lots of things he'd
01:44:38
like to do and this is an extreme the most extreme job. I don't think people
01:44:43
realize quite how extreme it is and I didn't realize how extreme it is in the
01:44:49
demand. So someone who was prepared for it didn't really realize it. So and that
01:44:54
does, you know, take its toll. You sort of see Obama when he went in, he had, you know, brown hair and he came out
01:45:00
with, you know, >> came out looking like Morgan Freeman. >> He did. >> It ages everyone.
01:45:06
>> Yeah. But then you then you see people on the other side of it and they sort of
01:45:09
re reverse age as well. Like they as soon as people get out of that job, it looks like a weight off their shoulders.
01:45:15
>> Well, it it just get it opens up. You know it's a little bit like things have
01:45:20
been so extreme that the reverse of that it doesn't take much to have a you know
01:45:25
a different but it is very difficult in the life within parliament and and politics that you don't get access. He
01:45:35
is on the move the whole time and he wants to be out in the community. He's not interested in staying in Wellington
01:45:42
and staying at his office. So he will be out meeting people and doing things as much as he can interfacing. But the
01:45:48
consequence of that is that he he is booked from 6:00 in the morning till 10:00 at night and you go where is lunch
01:45:55
in there and there isn't. And then you're on the road so there's no place
01:45:59
to get the lunch and I'm not always with him. If I'm with him I make sure um my
01:46:04
eye my teacher's eye. >> You don't want a a Hipkin situation where he's on sausage rolls all day.
01:46:09
>> No. No. No. >> All right. Are you super strict? Okay. What? >> Well, no, it's not it's not that. It's
01:46:15
just that if you if you don't if you know if you don't put some rules down,
01:46:21
then there's just not the alternatives. Do you know what I mean? And so the natural thing is you go for the quick
01:46:27
the quick energy boost or what you can get on the go, which is never the best thing. So, um there are things that are
01:46:36
good for you, Dom, as you know, and things that are not good for you. So, yeah. So,
01:46:41
>> what what um when you're not around, uh what sneaky treats treats is he having?
01:46:47
>> I've got no idea cuz I'm not around. Occasionally, occasionally I get a call.
01:46:53
Someone's dobbed him in. Um but he does. >> A bunning sausage. He must love a
01:46:57
bunning. Everyone loves a bunning sausage. >> Bunning sausage. Um he does have a
01:47:01
tendency though like um I'll go, "Oh, what happened um to that packet of
01:47:08
blah?" and he'll go, "Oh, I I just had two." And I'll go,
01:47:15
"Pardon, because here's the packet." No, I only had two. And I think he
01:47:20
fundamentally believes he's only had two, but he's just been absorbed in
01:47:25
something else and might have had a few more than two. So, um, yeah. So, um, we try our best, but circumstances
01:47:32
overcome. And when you are so tired and you can't get access to things, it is
01:47:37
really hard. is is definitely a thing that most politicians would say is one of the challenging things.
01:47:42
>> Yeah, of course you you make the poor choices when um he's a brisk walker
01:47:46
though. E I think he's the fastest walking politician I've ever seen. You
01:47:49
see him going through an airport or going anywhere, he he's got quite the cadence.
01:47:53
>> Well, you know, it's you you've got purpose. You got to get from A to B.
01:47:58
>> But help you if you've got high heels. By the way, >> if you if you guys are walking, say
01:48:03
you've got a a quiet Sunday and you're walking to a cafe, does he walk at that
01:48:06
pace or is it a slower walk? >> Um uh if we're walking to a cafe, well,
01:48:11
if we're walking to a cafe, I want him to walk faster because we're walking for
01:48:15
a purpose. Um but through the airports, like we have a whole contingent with him. So, it's like you try to be direct.
01:48:22
Um, when we're walking on the beach, I'll tell him to put a hat on and look
01:48:26
down because if he looks up, then he makes contact with people and he wants to talk to them. And it's like, you're
01:48:31
not talking to people. But, but it's such and such or they're very interesting and he he wants to engage.
01:48:37
Um, so I have to be quite strict and say, look down, don't look, don't look.
01:48:41
And it's like, and people want, you know, we're walking through airports and
01:48:44
people want to shake his hand. He's good. He gives a lot of time and and enjoys it. Um, I'm a little bit more
01:48:50
let's just get there cuz my feet are killing me. Yeah. Well, it's such an
01:48:53
important part of that job. Like someone someone someone meets you, you make a good impression and they'll they'll
01:48:58
potentially give you their vote. >> Yeah. And actually, it's not even that.
01:49:01
It's just a way of overcoming what we've talked about. And in fact, when you do
01:49:05
meet him, you go, "Oh, you're not what I think." Um, but there are millions of
01:49:10
people in New Zealand and he can't meet every single person. He meets a lot of
01:49:15
people and it's very exhausting and he gets out and meets as many as he can and
01:49:19
he will talk and spend time with as many people as he can. It's it's really one
01:49:24
of his great skills and gifts. He's a very people orientated person. Um and he
01:49:29
does it so well and he what he remembers. It's like >> wow. >> Yeah. I I he continues to amaze me with
01:49:36
what he can do and what he can achieve. So um but um yeah. So, >> we we sort of touched upon earlier the
01:49:42
um yeah, keyboard cowards. Um and there's always a very very big difference about the things people will
01:49:48
do on a keyboard rather than what they'll do in in in real life or face to face. What what what are the most
01:49:55
negative encounters you guys ever experienced in public? >> Someone yelling out from a car? No, the
01:50:00
probably the most negative thing for me is um 4:00 a.m. in the morning outside our front gate um with loud speakers um
01:50:10
and drums um yelling abuse at me and my children um because they're protesting
01:50:16
something. So, we had a lot of issues with that and and that's just we've got
01:50:20
children that live around us and and that's just not okay that people think that they can there's ways and forums of
01:50:27
protesting and I really really support protest. Um but coming into someone's
01:50:32
community and being very abusive um there's nothing to be gained from that. So, that that's probably, you know, the
01:50:40
worst thing. Um, I I'm good at blocking it out and um I don't hear what they
01:50:45
say, but it's it's just wrong on all levels. You know, protest in the right
01:50:50
places at the right time. >> It's like Winston Peters having a a brick thrown through his window.
01:50:54
>> Yeah. Well, it's the same kind of thing. They would throw a brick if they could
01:50:57
get it over the gate, I think. Um, but you know, they just do really random things. You wouldn't you wouldn't
01:51:03
believe the random things. Yeah. >> Yeah. For you, look, what does a good life look like to you right now? Is this
01:51:08
it? Oh, look, we chose to come into this and um at the moment this is where we believe is the right place. Um
01:51:18
Christopher can do a lot of good. You know, things were bad and he's really making a difference. And um and um so
01:51:26
that's what we've chosen to do. So my father gave me two pieces of really good
01:51:30
advice in life. One was don't borrow any money other than for a mortgage. Thank
01:51:34
you, Dad. Um, but the other thing which I often go back to is he goes, "Don't
01:51:40
don't look back on a decision." And it's actually a very simple piece, but it's
01:51:44
really good. Make your decision at the time and then step in and and don't keep
01:51:48
looking back. Was it the right decision? Was it not? So, at the moment, for this
01:51:52
time, and we can continue to evaluate that decision because it we get the choice. We get the choice to stay, we
01:51:59
get the choice to go, you know, whatever it is. So at the moment, this is where we want to be. Um and um yeah, the good
01:52:07
life is trying to really um keep going with that mission and and just keeping um keeping us um really healthy and um
01:52:17
and together and cuz there's a lot of other stuff that can be interfer. Yeah.
01:52:22
>> Yeah. 100%. Any any um All Blacks I've had on the podcast all say the same
01:52:26
thing. Their big goal is to make the All Black and All Blacks. And when they do that, the next goal is to become a great
01:52:31
All Black. Yeah. >> So, if we um transfer that like yourself and Christopher's goal was to become
01:52:37
prime minister. You've done that. Um what does it look like to be a great prime minister?
01:52:42
>> Um I think that he is a great prime minister. So, I think that's a misnomer
01:52:46
because if you um and you know, I could be personally biased. I mean, I'm not
01:52:51
sure why, just putting it out there, and you may disagree with me, but I've been
01:52:56
on the sidelines observing where we've come from and what we've done. Um, and
01:53:01
again, people have different ideas about how you achieve it. But um, I mean, he took a party that was very dysfunctional
01:53:09
and within um, a matter of months turned that party into a very, very um, good party. when he took over as um as uh
01:53:19
leader of the opposition, they gave him a 5% chance um of winning the election, 5% and he still took the job on knowing
01:53:28
that if he didn't win then that would be he would have to leave politics. So that
01:53:32
was a big huge risk because it was a really weird time. So um I actually think he is a really I think he's one of
01:53:39
the best prime ministers that we've had because he the international relationships that he is building we
01:53:46
don't get to see it in New Zealand but you know he is he is on talking to world
01:53:51
leaders making those connections building those trade agree so he's doing all of those things and he has got
01:53:58
things turned over I mean he is it needed to have a big turnover from where we were and very few people can do that
01:54:07
and it's one of the good things he does and so he has done that turnaround on
01:54:12
many fronts and there's a lot involved in that and he's very good and very
01:54:16
clever and he is a very good leader and that's an unusual thing he empowers people he he's an amazing problem solver
01:54:24
so there's lots of things that aren't obvious in the beginning but um I I
01:54:29
think he is a a great prime minister as it is yeah >> you both married, right? Eh. Yeah. I
01:54:37
like >> I'm lucky. I think I'm the luckiest girl alive because Yeah, he's um Yeah, he's
01:54:44
he's pretty amazing. And I feel that my life has been so enriched >> with him as my my best friend. Um and
01:54:54
the things that I have done, partly because of what he's done, but but what he's encouraged me to do. Um, I I I can
01:55:04
do be everything except for in the Australian Open. >> No, there's a few things I can't do. I'd
01:55:13
like to think I could do them, but um >> Well, that's inspirational. I I I could
01:55:18
be imagining it, but it looked like your eyes were getting glassy then. >> Please, please don't. There are no tears
01:55:22
in my eyes. >> I am not welling up thinking about that. Please. >> Actually, just a little bit.
01:55:28
>> That's really sweet. Yeah. Well, you know, it's a big it's a big part of your
01:55:33
life and he's a very important person to me. So, yeah. Yeah. And I do genuinely
01:55:38
feel just very lucky that he is such a big part of my life and >> he's helped me produce two really,
01:55:44
really, really amazing kids that I just love being with. And yeah, he's that
01:55:49
that's him and us together. So, I I feel lucky not everybody has it. So, yeah.
01:55:52
Yeah. >> Well, I think this conversation's been really revealing. It's been like a
01:55:56
really interesting >> I hope not too revealing. Will I get will I get some comments? I'm not
01:56:01
worried now. I'm going to have to listen to the transcript. Did I give you too
01:56:03
much information? >> Well, no. I think it's I think it's good. Like people will make their own
01:56:07
mind up and there's some people whose mind you're just never going to change.
01:56:11
Actually, those people probably won't even listen to it. But >> no, and that's your prerogative, isn't
01:56:15
it? That your prerogative is to have your choice over something. Um I'm always really The last thing I'll say is
01:56:22
it is always really important to me that you never attack an individual and particularly in politics. It is
01:56:27
essential. Anybody in public um service deserves respect no matter who they are or where they're from. Um you have every
01:56:36
right to say I disagree with the process or I disagree with the result. But you should never ever uh personally attack
01:56:45
and you will never ever ever hear me or Christopher actually vilify or attack an
01:56:51
individual person no matter who they are. you know, deal to their record, but everybody deserves to be treated well
01:56:58
and treated with respect and a lot of sacrifice for these jobs. People don't
01:57:02
realize um and it's not everybody's cup of tea, but you know, people deserve
01:57:08
respect for that. >> Yeah, it's a brutal game politics. Um I can tell how just how proud you are of
01:57:13
um Olivia and William and Christopher. Are you proud of yourself? >> Oh, interesting question. Um um I think
01:57:21
pride's an interesting word cuz it kind of is a good word, but it's a slightly
01:57:26
sort of has a slight egotistical word. I think um I think the biggest thing that
01:57:32
I'm proud about myself or not really proud about myself but is is meaningful
01:57:38
to me is when I'm able to have an opportunity to actually build really strong and meaningful relationships with
01:57:47
people and then if that means that I can add value to their life in any way um or
01:57:53
I can share their life I think they are the moments that probably um I enjoy and
01:57:59
want to be able to do the most. So, um I I don't think in this job there's time
01:58:04
for pride anyway. So, >> a lot of New Zealanders, especially I think of our age, find it difficult to
01:58:10
answer that. >> Yeah. >> It just feels I don't know, vain or inward or something.
01:58:13
>> No, but do you know what I mean? There's moments that you enjoy and can relate
01:58:18
to, gosh, I've been in and I've done that and that's great, but it's like
01:58:22
Yeah. I don't think pride is something that we necessarily focus on so much.
01:58:25
Yeah. Oh, it says on the screen, no more questions, please. >> Oh, no more questions. I did say it
01:58:31
said, "Your time's nearly up. Stop talking, Amanda." But, um, you know,
01:58:34
there's >> Was there when you came in today, was there anything that you hoped we'd talk
01:58:38
about that we haven't got to or? >> No, I had I had no expectations. And and
01:58:43
you know, you just said it's just just a chat. And so, um, you know, it's lovely
01:58:48
because I am not a political figure. I will never enter into that space. Um and so I will never respond to any of that
01:58:56
but it's really lovely to be able to have a conversation about um things that
01:59:01
elevated things as well because there is some lovely conceptual things that you know if you talk about you know like you
01:59:07
know how do we build resilience in our kids or things like that and those conversations are really good
01:59:12
conversations to have and everybody can bring something to the table and so you know I have a little bit to bring but
01:59:19
lots of other people do as well so yeah but Um, yeah. So, it's been fun. Yeah.
01:59:24
>> Amanda Luxen, thank you so much for coming on my podcast. It has been fun.
01:59:27
>> You're welcome. Thank you. It's been It's been really fun. Thanks, Dom.