00:00:00
Oh, good. You're here. Come on. This is the center of performance. Whenever there's a top performance in New
00:00:06
Zealand, it all comes from here. That's Lisa Carrington. She's been doing that
00:00:10
for days. That's the boys who got the hole in one in to Hey Finn, how's the performance going?
00:00:18
>> Top tier. >> Nice. This is our generate room. In here, you'll find our top performers
00:00:22
helping Kiwis maximize their Kiwi Saver investments. Get in here, Finn. Maximize. Generate. putting performance
00:00:29
first. >> Mark Rocket, welcome to my podcast. >> Great to be here, Dom.
00:00:39
>> So, your wife and kids, what's what's their surname on like on the passports
00:00:42
and birth certificates? >> Yeah, I've got a couple of little Rockets and
00:00:48
uh and my wife is just going through the process of changing changing her name at
00:00:51
the moment. So, >> Right. Yeah. >> What What was the reaction like at the
00:00:54
time? Did people think you were odd? >> Yeah. Well, I guess you know going back
00:00:58
to those days, the internet days, uh, you know, I started in the internet industry in 1994 and then started
00:01:04
playing around with SEO, search engine optimization 97, started up a company in 1998, actually a couple of companies and
00:01:11
just got into the whole kind of online marketing kind of thing and uh, yeah, realized, you know, words are just uh,
00:01:18
so compelling, so provocative and uh, yeah, just sort of started out as a crazy idea think, you know, what if I
00:01:25
changed my name to Mark Rocket? in what that would end up being and what what what that would affect in my life and it
00:01:32
just was one of those ideas that I couldn't let go and I decided just to jump in and do it.
00:01:37
>> Were you the subject of sort of any ridicule or anything at the time or
00:01:42
>> uh well probably but >> don't have a pretty much. >> What about your family? Like your
00:01:48
parents? >> Yeah. Um it was sort of a delicate thing. I didn't really tell them
00:01:51
straight out for a little while. Now, then the reason you chose rocket is >> Yeah. I mean, ever since I've been a
00:01:59
young kid, I've been fascinated by space technology, advanced aviation or just
00:02:03
general aviation. Uh, and yeah, it's just it's been a theme of my life. You
00:02:09
know, I never quite made it to university, but I've been an avid student of science fiction uh and a lot
00:02:15
of that kind of aviation technology. Uh, and yeah, I I I think it it's just one
00:02:21
of those areas that really compels me, gets gets me excited, and has sort of manifested it its way into all sorts of
00:02:27
things. >> Well, it's um an absolute honor to have you on the podcast. It's great to
00:02:31
finally connect with you. We've been going backwards and forwards for um months now in an attempt to make this
00:02:36
happen because um yeah, from what I know about you, you're an intriguing guy. So,
00:02:39
it's wonderful to have you here today. >> Great to be here, Tom. And um since we
00:02:44
started having the conversations going backwards and forwards, you have become the first New Zealander into space.
00:02:50
>> Yeah. Back May 31st in the US and in Texas uh I signed up uh and got a flight
00:02:55
with Blue Origin on a New Shepard suborbital flight and that was just phenomenal. You know, it really exceeded
00:03:01
all of my expectations. I knew it was going to be awesome, but it was just so much more. Uh only a 10-minute short
00:03:07
flight, but wow, it was just the most epic, intense 10 minutes of my life. >> So, um, Blue Origin, that's the, um, the
00:03:14
Jeff Bezos one, >> correct? >> Yeah. And so, originally, Yeah. So, you
00:03:19
changed your name to Mark Rocket. And then this is a goal you had, um, around about that time to go into space.
00:03:24
>> Yeah. Well, I Yeah. Yeah, I I guess if we go back a little bit, you know, as
00:03:28
part of my journey, I've I've really had a process of of self-improvement where I
00:03:34
really wanted to keep, you know, finding ways of incrementally improving myself.
00:03:39
And uh I did a course in 2000, the entrepreneurs success program. And it was it was great. It was a multi-year
00:03:45
kind kind of course. It was a great group of other entrepreneurs and we'd get together every few months and uh
00:03:50
there was a sort of program and there was a sort of social aspect of it. And yeah, one of those sessions in 2000 uh
00:03:57
was kind of an exercise where you're on on your deathbed and you kind of visualize, you know, what you wanted to
00:04:02
have achieved in your life. And sort of going through that sort of process, I realized, you know, I really wanted to
00:04:07
go to space. You know, that was something I really wanted to tick off uh the the the checklist. And so yeah, I
00:04:14
actually signed up initially uh around 2006 with Virgin Galactic and that was an awesome process and got a whole lot
00:04:23
of really great experiences out of that. Um but yeah, in the end I ended up going
00:04:27
with up with Blue Origin. >> I I know there's a lot of there's NDAs
00:04:32
involved and there's um you know commercially sensitive information, but um you when you sign up for the like the
00:04:38
Virgin one, what's the what's the deposit? Is that huge? >> Uh yeah. Okay. Well, back then it was
00:04:44
200,000 US. >> Oh my god. >> You can't you can't say how much. That
00:04:51
was the deposit. So, is it like a mill? >> No, no, no. That that was the full
00:04:54
amount. >> Oh, that was the whole amount. >> You basically pay the full amount.
00:04:57
>> Okay. >> Uh >> so, and and then you end up on selling that. That one didn't go ahead. The
00:05:01
Virgin one. >> Yeah, I cashed that one went in. Um yeah, they did it. They started a few
00:05:06
commercial flights and uh yeah then they're now redeveloping the the spacecraft and I am on the list. I think
00:05:12
I got to seat number 37 38 but I think it's going to be a year or two before
00:05:16
they get the the the next iteration of their spacecraft. I wish them all the best. You know amazing company and some
00:05:23
of those experiences that I was part of with that Virgin Galactic Founders Group
00:05:28
were uh incredible and really inspired me to get involved with the aerospace industry here in New Zealand.
00:05:35
Did you did you have much to do with um Sir Richard Branson? >> Yeah, I met him a number of times. Uh
00:05:40
and you spent a week on his island, Necar Island, the British Virgin Islands. Uh that was that was pretty
00:05:45
cool getting to see how how he lives. Uh and yeah, I think he visited Christ Church and uh in Oakuckland, you know,
00:05:53
caught up a few times around the place at various events. Uh yeah, he he's he
00:05:57
was a a phenomenal entrepreneur and still is, but I think co probably knocked him a little bit. I think he
00:06:03
said publicly he had like an investment portfolio from hell for co you know with
00:06:07
all the tourism operations right uh but yeah I'm I'm not quite sure what the
00:06:12
latest day of play is but uh yeah he's a resilient guy and uh just has uh made a
00:06:18
marvelous contribution to to being such iconic entrepreneur. >> What about Jeff Bezos? So you end up
00:06:24
going up in Blue Origin which is um the Bezos um spacecraft. Do you meet him have much to do?
00:06:28
>> No, I haven't met Jeff yet. Hopefully one day. Yeah, he he's obviously doing
00:06:33
some great stuff and you know what is is happening there there with Blue Origin.
00:06:36
I think he puts about $2 billion a year or so into that Blue Origin project and that that's just kind of the um uh the
00:06:44
kind of poker money that might be normal for for some of us. But uh yeah, basically he he's made such a a great
00:06:51
contribution there uh to to the aerospace industry. Blue Origin are just really starting to build that flywheel
00:06:57
momentum >> and you know what they've achieved with Blue Origin New Shepard.
00:07:02
>> I think it's just the beginning. You know, they're going to the New Glenn,
00:07:05
which is an orbital project and then Blue Moon uh lunar project and and other cool projects. So, I think we're going
00:07:11
to be hearing a lot more uh uh from Blue Origin. >> Yeah. Yes. So, so legally you've been to
00:07:18
space, but it was an 11 minute flight. Does does it feel like it's it's scratched the itch? Uh yeah, I'd really
00:07:24
like to to go again. Uh >> really, you're not a one and done. >> Or would you want to go further or
00:07:31
longer or >> Yeah, I mean orbital would would be great, but uh yeah, they're pretty
00:07:35
pricey, but um >> uh yeah, certainly, you know, that suborbital flight was just just so
00:07:41
phenomenal. Uh and yeah, I I think about it every day. Yeah, your um your former business
00:07:50
partner um and mate um Sir Peter Beck from Rocket Lab um and we'll get into your involvement with Rocket Lab later
00:07:55
on, but um yeah, I've had him on the podcast. You're you're the complete
00:07:58
opposite of each other, right? Like he's he's obsessed with rockets, but has no
00:08:01
desire to go into space, doesn't want to go anywhere near it, knows the risk
00:08:04
involved, doesn't want to leave Earth. But you you on the other hand, it's like
00:08:08
you you really want to be there. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think a couple of
00:08:11
days before I went on the flight, Peter sent me an email and said, you know, you're in in the right hands there with
00:08:16
the Blue Origin team. So, um yeah, uh yeah, I I think he's definitely got a different life philosophy to me. And uh
00:08:24
to be honest, I'm not I'm surprised more New Zealanders haven't wanted to get
00:08:26
involved uh with with these sort of space flights yet. And you know, sure, the ticket price is a little bit high,
00:08:33
but uh yeah, I think there's going to be >> thousands of of Kiwis that do go up into
00:08:38
space in the next decade. So the the Blue Origin one. So yeah, it's over a million, less than a million.
00:08:44
>> Yeah, I signed it in day for that. >> You just can't say can't Wow. But it was
00:08:49
whatever you paid, it's you consider it good value for money. >> Amazing.
00:08:54
>> Was that the same one that um um Oprah Winfreyy's friend Gail and Katy Perry
00:08:59
and those guys did? >> Yeah. I was on the flight after them. >> Oh, really?
00:09:03
>> Yeah. >> Was it the same day or No, >> no, no, no. It was about So you about
00:09:06
about a month later? >> Yeah. So talk talk us through it. So what sort of training is involved for
00:09:11
this? >> Yeah. So you you arrived there in uh sort of West Texas. Uh it's kind of like
00:09:18
you know the cars movie like Radiator Springs, you know, it kind of looks just like that. It's just a crazy uh
00:09:24
environment. Uh yeah. So you arrive there, meet meet your other crew uh and yeah, you stay in airirstream kind of
00:09:31
trailers in this sort of desert place and yeah, they've got a really great facility. Then yeah, the first day of
00:09:37
training, you go you go along uh to to the the spaceport and there's a special
00:09:41
training facility building where you kind of learn about how to get in and out of the capsule and you know what to
00:09:48
do when you're in the capsule and sort of going through the whole whole process, making sure you feel
00:09:53
comfortable with uh what's happening on on the flight day. Uh the second day is
00:09:58
more about off nominal situations where if something goes wrong, you got to put on uh a breathing mask and um yeah, how
00:10:06
to get out quickly, that kind of thing. Um I was seat six, so I was the first one on and the last one off, so it kind
00:10:12
of meant um I'd be pushing people out out the door to get out there. >> Were you scared? Uh well, I mean on the
00:10:22
actual flight day, uh yeah, I mean the it started off as a kind of a a pretty smooth elevator ride. Uh pretty cool,
00:10:30
but then it just get gets faster and faster, you know, to the point where we're doing 3,400 km per hour. And at
00:10:37
that point, you know, the adrenaline is really uh really kicking in. Uh and then
00:10:42
there's a really swift transition when the you get stage separation where the
00:10:47
booster drops off the capsule and uh yeah, essentially you uh move into a zero gravity environment really quickly
00:10:55
within a few seconds. So sort of that transition from that full-on adrenaline when you're on the edge of your seat
00:11:01
going, "Oh my god, what am I doing here?" to basically experiencing zero
00:11:04
gravity uh and looking at the magnificent views out the window. So yeah, there was certainly a few moments
00:11:10
of uh what the heck uh but you know then then you move into that kind of situation.
00:11:16
>> So there's you and five other people. >> Yes. >> Yeah. And um yeah. How is it spacious?
00:11:21
Is it like the size of this room or >> Yeah. Yeah. Rough roughly sort of sort
00:11:25
of similar. Um >> so when it's zero gravity, you're not like just you like limbs everywhere
00:11:29
bumping. >> Yeah. I mean, it's uh the thing about the Blue Origin uh capsule was, you know, that they've
00:11:37
made it with huge windows and and trying to make it as spacious as possible. Um in the middle there is a big sort of
00:11:43
round circle just like you have here with your table bit but bit smaller and that's where basically you've got a
00:11:47
rocket uh motor sitting there. So if something happens with the booster, the that rocket motor can take you off the
00:11:53
booster. Um so yeah, so that sort of takes up a bit of the cabin, but you've
00:11:58
got huge huge windows and there's a bit of move room to move around. >> So, six people on board and and you guys
00:12:05
are all early adopters, so I'm guessing these are like hardcore sort of space
00:12:09
fans or people that really wanted this opportunity. Um, yeah. What did you know about the uh about your what are they
00:12:15
called? Like your your crew? What did you know about your crew or your teammates? What are they what are they
00:12:19
called? >> Fellow passengers. >> Yeah, crew is as good as any. And yeah,
00:12:24
we we met a few times before, got to know each other a little bit. Uh, and yeah, there's a range of people. There
00:12:30
was a, you know, one guy had been to every country in the world and, uh, he wanted to kind of tick off going to
00:12:36
space as well. Uh, yeah, there was a a teacher from Puerto Rico. Um, yeah, a Canadian guy, an internet guy. Um, yeah,
00:12:46
just just just a range of people that obviously had a absolute fascination for for space like me.
00:12:51
>> A teacher from Puerto Rico. New Zealand teachers listening to this are going to
00:12:55
be like, I need to like get a job teaching in Puerto Rico. >> Well, well, she actually she actually
00:12:59
got a sponsorship from a pharmaceutical company. So, uh, yeah, she she really did well there.
00:13:06
>> What about your family? Were they nervous? >> Yeah, my wife was there. Um, yeah,
00:13:10
there's a few photos of her looking quite nervous. >> She She didn't try and talk you out of
00:13:15
it. >> No. >> No. She just knew it's something that you had to do.
00:13:19
>> Yeah. you. What about the risk? Like what if something went drastically wrong? I
00:13:25
know. I mean, I know it's going in an opposite direction, but I'm thinking
00:13:27
about that Titanic sub from a couple couple years ago. Like, what if what if what if the unthinkable happened?
00:13:33
>> Yeah. Well, I think you've got to look at what you really want to do. I mean,
00:13:36
for me, I wouldn't be that interested going to the bottom of the ocean in a composite material sub. And, you know, I
00:13:42
do know a little bit about composites and uh that's not something I would ever
00:13:45
entertain. Um, yeah, I think like anything, you've got to weigh up weigh up the risks and uh, yeah, I mean, you
00:13:52
do you can go on a camping holiday to across the North Island and, you know, you have a bad day. It's um, you know,
00:13:59
life is is full of risk. You got to choose the risk that you're happy to take. And, you know, conversely, you
00:14:06
know, if you do die, you know, for me, what a better what's a better way to die
00:14:10
than to blow up in a rocket. >> It's like they you read it all the time.
00:14:14
Hey, how he died doing what he loved. Exactly. >> Um, so going at 3,400 km an hour, what's
00:14:20
what's that like? >> Uh, yeah. I mean, it it was intense. Yeah. I mean,
00:14:25
>> scary. >> Yeah, scary. Yeah. >> Were you prepared for that?
00:14:29
>> Well, yeah, I knew we were going to go pretty fast. Um, but yeah, that the
00:14:32
sensation of it and you can sort of feel the rocket adjusting and, you know, basically it's an autonomous system, a
00:14:37
robotic system. So, you know, you're really hoping that the the robot's having a good day. Uh, so, uh, yeah, it
00:14:45
it kind of, you know, it it just just put me out out of my comfort zone a little bit. Uh, but not to the point
00:14:51
that I wouldn't do it again, but it it just, you know, made me kind of feel alive.
00:14:55
>> And was it was it a moving experience? Like, did did were you emotional out
00:14:59
there? Did you cry? I mean, I'm just thinking not just of the the the the flight itself, which is relatively
00:15:03
short, but just the quarter of a century of buildup to get to that moment. >> Yeah. Well, not not so much about that.
00:15:08
But I mean it did did feel like a a personal achievement. Something I I you know felt you know really really
00:15:14
pleased. But I guess the main emotional element really was seeing the earth from
00:15:19
space and seeing space and you know you see a photo of of space you see the blackness of space but to actually be
00:15:27
outside the earth's atmosphere and to see the the context. I don't know about
00:15:31
you, Dom, but you know, maybe you sit back sit back looking up at the stars and you think about what it is to to
00:15:36
travel through the solar system or through the galaxy. But, you know, in the in the solar system, uh here we are,
00:15:42
I think it's 150 million kilometers. The earth is away from from the sun. Uh you
00:15:47
know, the the sun has got 99.86 of the mass of of the solar system. It's obviously a huge bit of mass, big blob
00:15:55
of mass in the middle of our solar system. and you know it basically pulls all the planets around it and and just
00:16:00
to you know it's kind of a crazy concept when you when you think about it. U but
00:16:04
to actually see the earth and the sun and space this this vast ocean of blackness of space it kind of really you
00:16:13
really see the sort of context of this this fragile planet. Uh, and yeah, just, you know, that that blackness was kind
00:16:21
of like a little bit overwhelming. And, you know, there's some of the other passengers that that felt that as as
00:16:26
well. And you know, we're only up in um in that environment for a few minutes,
00:16:31
but you see other astronauts that come back uh after spending weeks or months uh orbiting the Earth and that they have
00:16:39
something called the overview effect where they they really do start thinking a lot more about that sort of stark
00:16:45
fragility of the Earth. >> If it um was an option in your lifetime, would you want to travel to another
00:16:52
planet? >> Yeah. Well, there's probably not that many to choose from that are are going
00:16:58
to be that comfortable anytime soon. Uh like yeah, Mars could could be kind of interesting, but you know, even going
00:17:05
and living in the Antarctic, I've I've had friends that go down there and uh do
00:17:09
the summer trips and actually got a friend there at the moment doing the winter trip. Uh that's that's pretty
00:17:13
fullon where, you know, Mars is going to be 10x harder than that. Uh it's going
00:17:18
to be pretty cold. It's not, you know, it's got to be a pretty severe environment. I think I'd miss my running
00:17:24
and my tennis too much, Dom. Uh, and it's, you know, it's nine nine months or
00:17:28
whatever to get there. >> Uh, nine months to get back, it's uh kind of a major major thing. When I was
00:17:34
younger, I think I' I would have been all in. Uh, but but where I am now, probably uh not so much.
00:17:40
>> You and I, you mentioned the running. You and I, we're both in our 50s. We're
00:17:43
both dealing with um issues in our left knees at the moment, I believe. Um like training in zero gravity it's good for
00:17:48
the joints >> I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So um the so the 11minute flight um so
00:17:55
at the peak how how high how far away from earth are you? >> 105 km >> right. [ __ ] That's a long way up isn't
00:18:01
it? And it took you how long to get there? Just a few minutes. >> Yeah. So what can you see?
00:18:08
>> Yeah. Well essentially you know you're above the clouds above the weather. You
00:18:13
can see that blackness of space, the the Earth about a thousand kilometers to the
00:18:17
horizon. Uh and yeah, you there's the sun radiating out there. And uh yeah, I
00:18:24
mean it's it's it's just it's hard to describe. It's it's kind of like a
00:18:28
sensory overload type situation, you know, going through that rocket powered flight. you know, you got the the stage
00:18:35
separated, the engine shut off, the stage separation, and then, you know, you're very quickly into that zero
00:18:40
gravity environment, you know, doing flips and uh moving around. Had a placard with New Zealand on it and doing
00:18:46
a few things like that. Uh and then basically you got to get ready for the descent and that's pretty full on as
00:18:53
well. You actually go 3,700 km an hour going on the way down. Uh, and yeah, basically you just wait that the
00:19:00
friction uh from the atmosphere as it gets thicker just needs to kind of slow slow you down from 3,700.
00:19:06
Uh, and it it slowed the capsule down to about 600 km/ hour and then you're kind
00:19:11
of waiting for the the little drug shoot to deploy and then the main shoot to deploy and then then you have that that
00:19:17
landing. So yeah, all in all there there's there's a heck of a lot going on
00:19:22
in that 10 minutes. >> What's the landing like? Is it quite a heavy thud?
00:19:26
>> No, it's uh it's not too bad. I mean, they they actually have some sort of
00:19:28
retro thrust thrusters at the bottom. Uh so there's a big cloud of dust that that
00:19:32
comes up, but it actually softens that landing pretty nicely. >> I've seen um you photos and some video
00:19:40
online of you um like entering and exiting the capsule. Did Did you feel like a hero?
00:19:46
>> Um >> you know what I mean? >> Well, the it's the way the US do things
00:19:50
is quite different to the way we we Kiwis do things here. So, you know, during the the few days before we had
00:19:55
like a a fashion photographer following us around and uh yeah, I mean I think obviously a lot of the staff were that
00:20:03
they were quite happy to see customers use using the thing that they built. So, they cheer you on and you've obviously
00:20:08
got the family people there cheering you on. So, yeah, I mean you kind of feel like you're the center of attention
00:20:14
there for a little while. Um, but uh, yeah, I mean, America kind of does it to that that hype, to that kind of next
00:20:21
level that that we we don't really do here in New Zealand. So, it it was kind
00:20:24
of kind of interesting. >> So, you um, you you're now so you're the
00:20:28
only New Zealander that's been into space. So, you you can confirm now that the Earth is flat.
00:20:34
>> Yeah. Very flat. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. How much of the curvature of the
00:20:38
Earth can you see when you're up that high? >> Yeah. It's about a thousand kilometers
00:20:41
to the horizon. So, you can just just sort of see that that that faint Wow. >> But there could have been a giant
00:20:47
tortoise sticking out the end. I don't know. I might have seen something holding it all up.
00:20:51
>> Um, yeah. What advice would you give to a young Kiwi who has like a massive
00:20:55
massive dream that potentially, you know, seems laughable that people laugh at? >> Yeah.
00:21:01
>> I feel like that's what you've done you've done here. Like this is this has
00:21:03
been like half your life that you've had this dream and it would have been almost
00:21:07
um unimaginable when you had the dream and and it has come true for you. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean for my journal
00:21:13
journey I came from, you know, pretty pretty humble beginnings and uh yeah, there's there's a lot of things that I
00:21:19
had to kind of overcome, you know, keep improving myself and getting to the point uh where I developed the skills
00:21:26
that I needed to do what I needed to do and I think, you know, just really committing to that incremental
00:21:30
improvement has been a key thing for me. But, you know, al also balance, you know, making sure you have balance in
00:21:37
your life. For me, that that's really important. you know, you see people uh
00:21:41
like Elon Musk going full charge uh in in a business area or political area, whatever it is that they're doing. Uh
00:21:49
you know, for me, I I think, you know, you've really got to have that balance
00:21:51
where you got to look at your health, you got to look at your relationships and your your business and and you know,
00:21:57
to me that makes a lot more sense, you know, living a fulfilled balanced life. So, that's something to looked at. But
00:22:04
yeah, I mean as as far as uh you know, young kids, you know, I I do hope that a lot of young Kiwis start thinking more
00:22:12
about the aerospace industry. You know, that's certainly something that that is
00:22:16
quite exciting for New Zealand's future. You know, Rocket Lab has has really led
00:22:21
led the charge. But there's a whole bunch of aerospace companies doing fantastic things in New Zealand. You
00:22:25
know, down here, we're a great place to be a test bed for all these new advanced
00:22:29
aviation and space technologies. we've sort of got this creative way of getting
00:22:34
things done pretty pretty cost- effectively down here. So, I'm hoping that we're going to be attracting a
00:22:39
whole lot of international projects and start more national projects uh to get people involved in the aerospace
00:22:45
industry. So, yeah, I know there's there's a lot of kids that love science
00:22:49
fiction and you know that could be let's say that's 10 20% of kids you know
00:22:54
hopefully a lot of those will those kids will have an aerospace industry that they can work in in the future. But
00:23:01
yeah, as far as just anyone wanting to chase their dreams, you know, you know, sometimes it it can be hard. Um, but I
00:23:06
think if if you really want to do it, just progressively work towards it and, you know, look at what skills you need
00:23:13
to do, uh, what places you need to put yourself in to to create that opportunity.
00:23:18
>> Yeah. I feel like you're a guy that thought impossibly big and you've done
00:23:22
it. >> Yeah. I'd say conversely, I think a lot of people don't think big enough.
00:23:27
>> Yeah. Yeah, >> a lot of people put sort of false restrictions on them themselves and
00:23:31
maybe I'm just stupid enough to think >> but beyond the realms of what what I
00:23:36
mean the reality is you know you look at rocket lab you know what happened there
00:23:39
shouldn't actually be technically possible if you look at the 10 other space veing nations around the world all
00:23:46
of those other countries had massive expenditure into building missiles or boarding rockets developing a space
00:23:53
program you know New Zealand when we started commercial operations of rocket lab in 2007 seven there was no
00:24:00
government expenditure into into those areas. >> Uh so so really you know what Peter Beck
00:24:04
and and the team have done there you know has been uh a bit of an outlier compared to to the rest of the world
00:24:11
>> but it just goes to show you know if you really drive towards it and you know you
00:24:16
got to have a few things line up in your favor as well >> but you know it is possible.
00:24:22
>> Yes. Um just picking up on something you said before which I find quite
00:24:25
inspiring. You talked about the balance in all aspects of your life, you know. Um yeah, sort of dividing your time and
00:24:30
making sure everything's good, your health's good, you know, your family's
00:24:32
good. Yeah. >> Um when I had your old business partner, Sir Peter Beck, on the the podcast, he
00:24:36
he had a quote that stuck with me. It was something like um nothing nothing great or nothing grand has ever achieved
00:24:41
on a 9 to5 timetable just sort of like reflecting on like the you work and the hours he's had to put in. How how can
00:24:47
you do how can you do it your way and have it all? Yeah, I think different people have different modes. You know,
00:24:53
what works for him, what works for Elon is probably not in the realms of what works for everyone. Uh I think you can
00:25:00
have tremendous success in different ways. Uh and I think a lot of people they want to kind of template what they
00:25:06
see working, but if you do template off someone that is a completely different personality type, emotional type, or
00:25:14
whatever to you, uh then you're never going to be able to to do that. Uh yeah,
00:25:19
for for me I've I've found I've been able to achieve my goals in a different
00:25:23
way and I think you know having that balance and I I think it's kind of like
00:25:26
running a marathon you know if you actually want to do a short B I mean when I was in the internet days I would
00:25:31
be working until 10:00 at night midnight 2 a.m. you know that startup mentality I
00:25:38
had that when so you know when I was in my sort of 30s you know I was doing a lot of that but I realized it just
00:25:43
wasn't sustainable >> and you know you're kind of running a marathon you're not running a sprint
00:25:49
>> uh so you I if you look at a lot of those successful entrepreneurs a lot of
00:25:53
them do have health issues or maybe you know they don't have their relationships
00:25:59
and with their family or whatever in as good a shape um so yeah I think it's a
00:26:04
matter of trying to find what works for you >> uh and sort of trying to take that
00:26:09
approach. But yeah, you you do need to put a lot of effort into into starting up a business. There's no two ways about
00:26:16
it. But, you know, maybe a lot of that stuff is dead wood. You know, what is it that you really need to do and trying to
00:26:21
prioritize the key things that are going to move your business or organization forward, I think is a lot more effective
00:26:26
than just putting in stupid hours. >> Yeah. Well, that's interesting. That's an
00:26:31
interesting takeaway. Um yeah, political um persuasions aside, I've had um the
00:26:35
Prime Minister Chris Lux on the podcast and he he I think the term he used is ruthless time management.
00:26:40
>> So whatever he's doing, he's um he's he's all in at that time. Um but it
00:26:44
doesn't mean he's a workaholic and he's working 20 hours a day or anything crazy
00:26:47
like that. Um if he's Yeah. at the movies with his wife Amanda, his phone's
00:26:51
off and he's fully engaged in that. >> Yeah. >> Um it feels like that's sort of in a in
00:26:55
a in a less clinical way what you're saying. >> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I think that that's
00:27:00
a that's a great appro approach. You know, try and be present in whatever you're doing. You know, you do have to
00:27:04
kind of wear different hats and just be conscious about what hat you're wearing
00:27:07
at the time. And >> yeah, I think that ruthless time management approach is is a good one.
00:27:12
You know, we a lot of the times we do stuff that we uh don't need to do uh or
00:27:18
shouldn't do, like maybe doing podcasts and stuff like that. >> Yeah, this is a not a good ROI.
00:27:25
Um yeah, you talk about the different hats you're wearing. Um, and just a thought that came to mind. So, did you
00:27:30
you wore a space suit in the in the >> uh in the trip to space with Blue Origin? It
00:27:36
>> was more like a space trackuit. >> Okay. Do you get to keep it? Where is
00:27:38
it? >> Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, but it's back at home. Yeah.
00:27:41
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What are you doing with it? You going to you're going to frame it or
00:27:45
>> uh No, it's just just sitting there in the wardrobe. >> Yeah.
00:27:49
>> I feel I mean it's only it's only an item of clothing, but it's um to me it
00:27:52
signifies something bigger than that. like it's a, you know, like a 25 year goal or dream that came to fruition. Um,
00:27:59
so there's something quite profound about that item of clothing. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, there's things that
00:28:04
I got to take up uh on on the flight. Uh, so yeah, I mean, I got I got my watch here that I wore a space, so
00:28:10
that's kind of with me all the time, which sort of helps helps remind me, connect me. Uh, so I think yeah, there's
00:28:16
different things. I took my wedding ring and my my my wife's wedding ring up
00:28:20
there. So that sort of connects us. So I think yeah, you just sort of choose what
00:28:23
what means something to you. >> Oh, that's cool. Hey, so let's go back
00:28:26
to the early years. What are your earliest memories? >> Yeah. Well, I was I was born in 1970. Uh
00:28:32
yeah, 30 31st December, just like Richard McCo, but he's he's 10 years younger than me. Uh
00:28:38
>> played a few more test matches than you, too. But has he been to space?
00:28:42
Uh and uh yeah, I mean growing up in Christ Church in the 70s, you know, it was uh yeah, interesting times. And you
00:28:52
know, in the 80s in Christ Church was was a little bit dingy down there. You know, it's got a whole whole different
00:28:56
vibe down there now. Uh but yeah, great going to high school. Uh I was sort of a
00:29:02
middling kind of student. Didn't didn't really achieve the potential that I had.
00:29:06
It took took me took me a while to kind of learn really what I what I wanted to to do in life. what I wanted to do with
00:29:12
my life. Uh so yeah, I sort of focused on traveling the world and seeing a bit of the world and and uh you know went
00:29:19
over to Europe and wi with my guitar and did a bit of busking and worked in some
00:29:23
pubs and and that kind of stuff. And yeah, when I ended up coming back to to Christ Church, uh I I ended up getting a
00:29:30
job in 1994 and at one of the first internet companies. So that was really my my first big big break. And you know,
00:29:36
you sometimes you reflect back at some of the breaks that you get in life and you you probably had the same thing,
00:29:41
Dom, where you kind of look back and you just think, if I hadn't have had that
00:29:44
meeting or hadn't have gone to that place on that day, then everything would
00:29:48
have been different. And you know, sometimes you just sort of look at those three or four things that have made such
00:29:54
a massive difference to your life. >> So you you were more creative than sort
00:29:58
of nerdy. >> You mentioned the the musician aspect. like were you like were you were you
00:30:04
good at maths or were you sort of like computer minded? >> Uh I did did do a bit of basic computing
00:30:10
kind of course there. I kind of like game gaming was was pretty cool. Um but yeah, I wasn't really gifted at at
00:30:16
maths. Uh yeah, I was probably a little bit more uh early on the on the creative
00:30:21
side. >> So then the internet comes along. So yeah, I'm just trying to think you and I
00:30:25
are about the same age. So, um, yeah, I mean, the internet made no no sense to me, but you you acronyms like,
00:30:33
um, SEO, like search engine optimization, which is relatively common now, like this is something you were
00:30:39
using like in the 90s. >> Yeah. I mean, >> this is pre Google, by the way.
00:30:44
>> Yeah. I mean, the internet industry was a whole different animal compared to
00:30:48
what it is now. And it was really run by a lot of university types that were there. And it was very much a kind of
00:30:56
open-source approach and they were fighting really to try and maintain that and kind of keep the corporate
00:31:03
commercial world out. And obviously they kind of lost that fight. Darth Vader and
00:31:08
the Death Star came in and took over. But uh yeah, it was it was a whole different vibe. You know, it was a lot
00:31:14
of really smart people giving giving time away to create useful tools uh to to share with the world.
00:31:21
>> You mentioned um Darth Vader and the Death Star just then. Were you a Star
00:31:24
Wars kid growing up? >> Yeah, I mean my Yeah, I definitely I'm a Star Wars generation kid and yeah, like
00:31:31
that Star Trek, but really my number one favorite film was Alien. You know, the gritty realism of that film, Truckers in
00:31:38
Space, you know, it just seemed a whole lot more real and uh yeah, tangible. So,
00:31:43
yeah, I thought that that was certainly one of my my early favorite films. >> Was it movies where the curiosity began?
00:31:50
>> Uh, more science fiction books. Okay. Yeah, read read a lot of sci-fi. >> Um, so yeah, I I think that really sets
00:31:57
you up for creativity, innovation, uh, and critical thinking. It kind expands, you know, your world quite a
00:32:07
lot. >> So, um, before the internet, what did you want to do? Did you have aspirations
00:32:12
to be a musician? >> Yeah. Yeah. I I thought it'd be it would be kind of cool to to to be a musician,
00:32:18
but yeah, I just didn't quite have that natural talent. Uh so, but yeah, certainly got a lot out of it. Enjoyed
00:32:26
it. Uh and you know, just having that kind of creative outlet, I think, is is really important when when you're a
00:32:32
young young person. >> Do you still play? >> Um on and off. I mean, not as much as I
00:32:37
used to. >> Yeah. >> What did what did you do? Were you covers or originals?
00:32:42
>> Yeah, a bit of both. Yeah. I one of my tickbox things was I actually went into
00:32:46
recording studio with some session musicians and and uh did did some uh um of my originals and yeah really really
00:32:53
happy with those and they're in my personal library and enjoy playing them from time to time.
00:32:57
>> No no no desire to share them on >> No, not really. >> Who who's who's allowed to listen to
00:33:03
them? >> Uh yeah, my wife and sometimes my friends come around to parties and I
00:33:07
might put it on. They go, "Is that you?" Yeah. So yeah, that's quite cool.
00:33:10
>> But what sort of genre? Uh, you know, kind of that kind of rock kind sort of
00:33:16
sci-fi rock maybe. >> Awesome. >> Yeah. >> Um, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, the internet
00:33:22
comes along. Um, you co-ounded two internet companies in 1998. >> Yeah. What were they?
00:33:29
>> Yeah. So, Avatar, Avatar Web Promotions, as it was called back then. Uh, Avatar
00:33:36
was a basically a web promotions company. Yeah. And really the focus was search engine optimization and basically
00:33:44
getting traffic to people's websites. You know back back then it was pretty early days. You know when I started in
00:33:48
that sort of area 97 uh at that stage most people were just used they were just thinking about getting a a domain
00:33:55
name and thinking about putting up a basic web page. Uh but what I kind of realized it's that that's just the
00:34:02
start. What you actually need to do is get your target market to your web page and that's really where you start
00:34:07
getting the phone ringing and getting your emails. Uh so yeah, Avatar and then obviously you had the Avatar movies that
00:34:13
came out uh subsequently. So we got a lot of extra side traffic from that. Uh uh but yeah, New Zealand tourism online
00:34:21
was another uh company I set up with with two other people and um yeah, that was sort of pretty pretty hardgoing
00:34:29
early on and we ended up building that to being a very successful tourism directory in New Zealand. We won five
00:34:37
New Zealand tourism awards. were in the fast 50 moving companies three years in a row. And then we got a magic call from
00:34:43
a fellow at uh Telecom Yellow Pages and he and he said, "Well, we want to buy
00:34:48
your business." And uh that put a bit of gas in my tank and from there moved into
00:34:53
the space arena. >> Yeah. So that was that was 2006 that you sold it. So you started New Zealand
00:34:58
tourism online in 98. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And then eight years later sold it
00:35:03
to Telecom Yellow Pages. Um can you disclose how much or no? 9 million. >> Right. So you get how many how many in
00:35:11
the business? >> Uh there were two two of us. Two mainly two of us at that stage. Yeah.
00:35:17
>> Yeah. Right. So you get four and a half million >> something like that.
00:35:24
>> So how how old are you at the time? What are you like? Um 30 30ish. >> Uh yeah. Well I I guess if we we we do
00:35:31
the math about uh Yeah. 35. That's awesome. >> Yeah. I mean, that was, you know, one of
00:35:39
those lucky breaks where we just appeared on the radar at the right time. You know, Yellow Pages was being sold by
00:35:45
Telecom. They were looking to buy a few properties to kind of add a bit of X factor into the Yellow Pages brand and
00:35:52
uh yeah, we were we were just on the radar at the right time. >> You say it's a lucky break, but um you
00:35:58
also said like a few sentences ago um like just how hard you guys worked over over many years to build this thing up.
00:36:04
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's it's interesting, you know, you really do the do the tough yard sometimes. I remember
00:36:10
there was one month where we were >> realizing we we weren't making money. We
00:36:14
were going backwards. We had a $30,000 tax debt to the Ird. Uh we're in the negative. And we thought, okay, let's
00:36:22
just give this another month and just just just see if we can turn it around. And yeah, we we hired a new person,
00:36:29
managed to to uh get get uh things going and from there uh everything changed. And and you know, I think a lot a lot of
00:36:38
it is about the timing >> and you know, if you just get get the right timing on your business, your
00:36:45
product, uh then everything can change. You know, you can miss it by just a few weeks.
00:36:51
>> Was that life changing? >> Uh yeah, I think so. Yeah. I mean, you
00:36:55
know, I'd sort of gradually, you know, had success with my businesses, but yeah, I mean,
00:37:02
that that was definitely a point where I had more money in the bank than I than I
00:37:05
ever had before. >> And what do you do immediately? You you do you buy anything cool?
00:37:11
>> Well, I bought I bought a ticket to space with Virgin Galactic. So, yeah, I
00:37:15
remembered what I wrote down uh five years before and thought, okay, I got to do that. And, you know, gave gave some
00:37:21
money to Greenpeace and a few bits and pieces and Awesome. Yeah. >> And why do you keep going at that point
00:37:27
and do something else? I'm just interested to get into your mindset. Um because it seems like serial
00:37:31
entrepreneurs have a different mindset to you know a lot of other people. >> A lot of other people probably just like
00:37:35
I suppose buy a house, put some money in the bank or invest it and you know put their feet up.
00:37:41
>> Yeah. Yeah. I think there there's a lot of mental I mean certainly I had a few
00:37:44
holidays and sort of took a bit of time to reflect but what I realized is most people uh they get bored you know if
00:37:53
there's stuff that you want to achieve in life and you want to keep pushing it
00:37:57
then yeah you you got to find you know what what really gives you that drive you know look for that fire in your
00:38:02
belly and uh yeah I sto still had some of that left and wanted to contribute in various areas. M
00:38:10
>> Yeah. You need a reason. This is something I'm discovering as I get older
00:38:13
and older. You need a reason to get out of bed in the morning. Eh, you do need a
00:38:15
purpose. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. F you know. Yeah. You got to find
00:38:20
what it is. And you know, sometimes uh you might not have that kind of drive. You know, uh after Rocket Lab 2011, I I
00:38:28
took a bit of time out for for my family had young kids. I really just wanted to
00:38:32
focus on u being being with them with our younger and and taking it a bit easier. Uh, and yeah, I sort of had a
00:38:40
few years here where I was thinking, okay, what is my next thing? Do I do I just want to uh get the batch in the
00:38:45
boat and take it easy and I I I seriously thought about that, but then I thought, no, I I you there's other stuff
00:38:50
that that I want want to do and if you can really identify what it is and you know, sometimes it can take years of of
00:38:57
mulling it over, contemplating, but before you find it. And yeah, what I actually I was actually thinking about
00:39:04
getting into virtual reality and I went to the uh Silicon Valley virtual reality
00:39:09
conference uh in um up near San Francisco and uh yeah, I thought that could be something I got into, but yeah,
00:39:16
didn't didn't quite gel. Uh and a year later, I decided I really wanted to get
00:39:20
back into the aerospace industry. Mhm. >> Yes. I think for a lot of people the
00:39:25
fantasy would be like to build a business up, sell it, um, and then go to go to Dinerell or Honolulu and sit on a
00:39:33
hammock drinking cocktails for the rest of your life. But the reality is six weeks of that and you'd probably be
00:39:37
depressed. >> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think Yeah. book in a six week holiday and then come
00:39:41
back and get on with it. >> Yeah. I'd imagine you on a holiday that's that's probably your um thinking
00:39:47
time where your brain's woring over coming up with new ideas of what you're
00:39:50
going to do next. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think you know flying in planes uh when you're actually
00:39:54
above the world and uh yeah it can and you're away from the computer and can
00:40:00
can you know just just being able to exit from your normal life in some way I think is is a really powerful thing.
00:40:06
>> Uh and certainly yeah if I am lying around um by the pool or whatever I'm
00:40:12
often thinking about all sorts of other crazy stuff and it can can incubate a whole lot of ideas and think oh I really
00:40:17
want to do that. M. >> So what year did you change your name again to Rocket?
00:40:22
>> 2000. >> 2000. Okay. So that was six years before the before selling out to um Telecom
00:40:27
Yellow Pages. And then um there's an interesting So yeah, how did you become
00:40:32
sort of media famous? I remember do you doing some interviews and bits and pieces?
00:40:36
>> Yeah. I don't think I famous. I mean, I think I've done I've done a a few little
00:40:40
media things, but >> was it was it just like a media curiosity thing after you changed your
00:40:44
name to Rocket or >> No, it was around uh Virgin Galactic. >> Okay. >> Uh so yeah, essentially when I got the
00:40:51
ticket, signed up with them, I realized that a lot of other people internationally were getting quite a bit
00:40:55
bit of media. Uh, so yeah, I decided just to organize things and I just did a a media release um so that I could
00:41:04
control a little bit the timing >> and uh yeah, but I think I sort of got on the radar a little bit there.
00:41:10
>> Is is that where um the worlds of um yourself and Peter Beck collided? He
00:41:15
heard you on a radio. He he told me on um on our podcast that he heard you do a thing on the radio.
00:41:20
>> Uh yeah, and he reached out to you. He got a hold of you somehow. >> Exactly. Yeah. I think he'd sort of
00:41:24
tried a whole lot of potential investors and he thought, "Hey, the space guy
00:41:28
might be into what I'm into and uh yeah, so he he gave me a call and um yeah, so that worked out pretty
00:41:35
well." And I think at the time I'd just come back from the International Space
00:41:38
Development Conference and I saw Elon Musk speaking and met Buzz Uldren and uh it was it was so inspiring and I thought
00:41:47
you know all the actions happening in the top half of the planet you know maybe the southern hemisphere could get
00:41:51
involved with this emerging new space industry as well >> and I I think I mentioned that on the
00:41:56
radio saying I'd really like to see a space industry emerge in New Zealand and
00:42:01
um yeah next minute u Peter Peter gave me a Cool. So, how does how does that phone call go?
00:42:09
>> Yeah, I mean, I actually had a few phone calls from a few different people that
00:42:12
were at various stages. Uh, and yeah, I just asked him to to send through his his his plan and, you know, I realized
00:42:21
he had something interesting going on and we met and I could just see he was a really driven driven fellow and knew
00:42:28
what he was talking about. Did did a bit of research and thought, okay, let's
00:42:33
let's give it a go. Oh, so other people reaching out as well, like wanting money
00:42:36
for whatever venture they were doing. Was it all space themed or just people wanting money to?
00:42:41
>> Yeah, sort of space themed. >> Okay. >> So, what was Rocket Lab then? Rocket Lab
00:42:45
is now like a I got I don't know 1015 billion dollar company, but what was it
00:42:48
then? >> Yeah, I mean we we started off as a as a pretty basic uh company, low low
00:42:55
valuation. Uh but you know, the reality is nothing had been achieved at that point. uh and you know we had a a
00:43:01
PowerPoint presentation uh a rough plan and you know that plan completely changed obviously as as we got into it.
00:43:08
Uh but you know sometimes you just got to believe that you know your business partner and you can work well together
00:43:14
and you can you can make it happen. >> Why did you guys work so well? >> Yeah. Well, I think
00:43:20
>> just different skill sets. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think obviously technically uh he's he's a magician, you
00:43:25
know, he just make make it happen. uh and you know I'd had some success with
00:43:30
the instant industry and sort of brought that initial sort of governance and marketing aspect along uh on those those
00:43:37
early years and you know what what's really amazing about Peter is he just levels up you know he he's had a
00:43:42
phenomenal personal growth and you know it's just amazing to see how well he's
00:43:47
doing and how far he's come. >> So you bought half of Rocket Lab. >> Yep.
00:43:53
>> Um so this was in 2007. >> Yep. Can you remember how much? >> Uh, roughly.
00:44:00
>> What was it like? 200. >> Uh, a bit more. >> 250. >> Well, a bit more.
00:44:05
>> Oh, 300. >> 300,000. >> Something like that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, which is is crazy
00:44:12
now with the benefit of hindsight to see see what that company has grown into, right? It's massive.
00:44:17
>> Um, yeah. And your co-director. So, what do you like I mean on the big scheme of things,
00:44:24
that's not a lot of money. So, what do you do with that? like how do how do you
00:44:26
use 300,000 or whatever the money is to you know build a rocket like where does it go?
00:44:33
>> Yeah. Well, I think with high risk ventures like that it's it's good to
00:44:36
have a specific target in mind and essentially what we were doing with that money is to try and get a rocket to
00:44:42
space and uh you know we we believed we could give it a go and uh in the end we needed a bit more money than that. So I
00:44:49
put some more money in. Um but I could see that we were making good technical progress.
00:44:54
>> Uh and yeah, we we did the the first space launch around November 2009. So in
00:45:00
a few years, uh Peter and the team did a great job getting things ready. A whole
00:45:04
new rocket motor, hybrid fuel, uh new new airframe. Uh so yeah, it was sometimes you you know you put you put a
00:45:14
little bit of money in to to aim for a specific goal and and then from there obviously you can work at it if if the
00:45:21
company's got legs >> at the time. Did you have people in your ear like accountants, you know, business
00:45:27
mentors or anything saying, "Mark, what the [ __ ] are you doing?" >> Yeah. Yeah. You know, you you definitely
00:45:32
get a bit of that. Um, >> I mean, it's easy to look back in hindsight and go that was a smart move
00:45:37
and and um it was a very good decision, but at the time I'd imagine that was um
00:45:41
people a lot of people would have thought you were bonkers. >> Yeah, probably.
00:45:47
>> Well, I think a lot of it comes down to the the gut feel that you have and if
00:45:51
you know you you sort of tick the boxes that you need to tick for due diligence >> and you just want to give it a go. M
00:45:58
well and okay in 2007 what was it that you saw in Peter Beck and Rocket Lab that others didn't?
00:46:04
>> Yeah. Well, he had a pretty good career at IRL industrial research uh and you
00:46:09
know the references of people that he worked with uh were pretty pretty compelling and and I think also just
00:46:17
someone that spends their whole life in their shed building rockets and playing around with motors. I mean obviously
00:46:23
they're really into it, right? Uh so yeah, he wasn't just someone that had
00:46:28
gone to university and done the kind of minimum engineering course and then said, "Hey, I've got this idea." He he'
00:46:33
lived and breathed it and you know that passion you can pick that up in people and uh yeah lucky enough we ended up
00:46:40
working together. >> He's he's an absolute gem of a New Zealander. He told me some stories on
00:46:44
the podcast like when he I think he was working at Fischer and Pel at the time and spending all his spare time
00:46:49
>> just making stuff at home and um some his workmates from Fisher and Per would
00:46:53
drop meals around to him because they they were worried that he just wasn't eating.
00:46:56
>> So he just had this one track mind >> um just building stuff and would forget
00:47:00
to eat. >> Yeah. You I think you know passion goes a long way if someone is is really into
00:47:04
it and really driven about it and you see that for winning companies, winning teams, you know, you you've got to have
00:47:10
that drive and and rale. Yeah, I've got a quote from him from our podcast. Um, if it wasn't for Mark, none
00:47:18
of this would have happened because he was the first person to put some money in, and all credit to Mark. Ultimately,
00:47:24
I bought Mark back out and that was critical because you can't turn up to Silicon Valley with half a company with
00:47:29
half your company sold. >> Yeah. Um, you guys still close now? >> Close-ish. Well, we we keep in touch
00:47:36
from time to time, but you know, he's in his world now, and I'm pretty busy with
00:47:40
my company, Kia Aerospace, these days, so I think we're both pretty busy doing
00:47:44
our own thing. >> Yeah, but there was no no bad blood or anything there. >> No, no, I think, you know, uh I'm just
00:47:52
so impressed with uh how he's taken the company on and and upwards. And I'm I'm
00:47:58
pleased to be a shareholder still to this day. And uh yeah, the company valuation's looking pretty good. It is.
00:48:04
Yeah. So, you sold So, you had half the company, you sold in 2011. Did you did you want to sell? What was the decision
00:48:11
process in that? >> Yeah, we sort of won a contract that I didn't really it didn't really fire up
00:48:17
with me. Uh, and again, you know, I wanted to step out and spend some time with with my family. So, it was a good
00:48:22
time for to exit. >> Um, but then things got shuffled around a few years later and I got given shares
00:48:28
in the new Rocket Lab USA company and um had had them ever since. So yeah, pretty
00:48:33
pretty pleased the way it's all worked out. >> Yeah, those those I mean your your
00:48:37
shareholding is probably significantly larger than mine, but um yeah, it's gone
00:48:41
up like 500% or something in the past year. It's just been crazy. You you probably don't update your shares
00:48:46
account as often as what I do to see what the price is doing. >> Uh no, not really.
00:48:52
>> But do do like do you know what your holdings is in the company? Is it like
00:48:54
1% 2%. Uh, I don't know if I want want to go there, but I'm I'm pretty pretty
00:49:00
happy with the way things have worked out. You know, I looked after Peter. Peter looked after me and uh
00:49:05
>> life goes on. >> Um, yeah, he he he's got a Delorean. Um >> Oh, cool.
00:49:13
>> You know, like he's a big fan of Back to the Future. So, he's got a Delorean. Uh,
00:49:17
it's got a cassette deck in with the, you know, the Back to the Future soundtrack.
00:49:21
>> That's cool. That's cool. >> Yeah. Apart from the uh the Blue Origin
00:49:24
Flight, have you bought anything cool like that? >> Uh I got a Gretch guitar. Uh which
00:49:30
>> what's that? >> Uh it's kind of like a rockabilly guitar, you know, like stray cats, you
00:49:34
know. Um so yeah, that that was a real dream when I was uh younger. And uh >> yeah, just a few bits and pieces. I've
00:49:42
got a Tesla, which I think is cool. I mean, obviously Elon's a little bit controversial these days, but uh yeah, I
00:49:48
think Tesla's done done a pretty great job. And you know, SpaceX, SpaceX have
00:49:52
have done some pretty great things for the aerospace industry. >> Um, but uh, yeah,
00:50:00
>> you're quite you're quite a simple guy, eh? Quite a just quite a quite Yeah.
00:50:03
quite a basic humble guy. >> Yeah. Well, you know, I don't know. Maybe
00:50:10
[Music] >> that's that's what a humble guy would say. So, tell us about Kia Aerospace. So,
00:50:16
this was founded in 2018. Why do why do you keep you you keep doing new ventures
00:50:21
and you you don't you don't really need to eh >> is it just what we were talking about
00:50:25
before? >> Yeah, >> just that purpose. >> Yeah, I just I really wanted to I guess
00:50:30
it goes back down to mission wasn't quite fulfilled when we started Rocket Lab because initially we were going to
00:50:36
set up down in Christ Church >> and uh I I really think the South Island is a great place to do a lot of this
00:50:42
aerospace development. Uh so that didn't quite happen. So there was kind of an
00:50:46
itch there that I thought, oh, I'd really like to get something more happening down in the South Island. So I
00:50:51
started to hang out at the University of Canterbury. Uh made some made some uh new connections there. Uh and yeah,
00:50:58
ultimately our CTO Dr. Dr. Philip Sultrop was just finishing up his his PhD and we were sort of chucking around
00:51:05
different ideas. Initially thinking about maybe payloads for rockets but uh stumbled across this idea for key
00:51:14
aerospace which essentially is a solar powered aircraft that flies in the stratosphere and can fly for weeks or
00:51:22
months continuously. And I just fell in love with that concept. You know, an aircraft that can fly for months
00:51:27
continuously using solar power. the power of the sun. I just thought that was such a cool uh such a cool project
00:51:34
to get to part of. And you know the reason you fly above the stratosphere or in the stratosphere above above the
00:51:40
weather above the other air traffic is you know basically you can just keep keep flying there uh above the clouds
00:51:47
where you don't have any of those kind of issues at low altitude. So yeah, really opens up a whole bunch of new
00:51:54
applications around remote sensing, earth observation for environmental monitoring, humanitarian disaster
00:52:01
response through to maritime domain awareness. You know, there's a whole lot
00:52:05
of different applications that this kind of loitering capability >> uh can can be used for.
00:52:11
>> You you I'm going to ask a lot of dumb questions here from myself and maybe
00:52:14
some people that are listening. So the um these these key aircraft like what sort of sites are they? Uh what sort of
00:52:21
what sort of height are they hovering around? >> Yeah, so we built two K Atmos Mark1
00:52:25
aircraft so far. Uh we did our first Stratospheric flight in February this year and that got up to 56,000 ft. So
00:52:34
yeah, that was a real milestone. And then this summer we're aiming to do a few more stratospheric flights over
00:52:39
60,000 ft. So if you were flying to the US, uh you're probably flying say 38,000
00:52:44
40,000 ft. So, so yeah, we're we're another kind of third or so above above
00:52:49
the jet streams. >> How how big are they? >> About 12 and a half meter wingspan.
00:52:54
>> Okay, that's huge. >> And so, yeah, we're we're just moving
00:52:57
into phase two where we've started designing the MK2 aircraft and that'll
00:53:01
be about a 30 meter wingspan aircraft. And yeah, the MK1 is a dawn to dusk type scenario just to enable us to get up to
00:53:09
the stratosphere. The MK2 will enable us to stay up there for weeks or or months
00:53:14
continuously. So that's going to be, you know, a major achievement if we can get
00:53:18
that done. >> What sort of weight can they can they carry? >> Yeah, the the whole thing with this is
00:53:24
it's about minimizing the mass, minimizing the weight and and minimizing the the energy consumption. So yeah, the
00:53:31
Mark 1, it's under 40 kgs. Even though it's 12 and a half meter wingspan, which
00:53:35
is a pretty pretty big aircraft wingspan, >> uh it it weighs under 40 kgs. So, it's
00:53:41
using composite materials and you know, everything's kind of optimized to to
00:53:46
make it as light as possible. The MK2 aircraft which will have and most of that weight is actually the batteries.
00:53:51
Uh so the MK 2 aircraft will be be about 150 200 kgs and and 30 meter wingspan. So yeah, m a much much uh larger
00:54:01
wingspan, but uh yeah, still we just we just really got to keep it as light as possible. And then you know the power
00:54:08
requirements, you know, with the Mark 1, we we got to the stratosphere on the power of a haird dryer.
00:54:12
>> So yeah, and again it needs to be really efficient, really optimized. >> And do they move around up there
00:54:18
>> or they sort of stationary? >> Yeah, so essentially just just flies
00:54:22
would sort of circle like a normal aircraft. But you know, one of the key things with it is we want to pick
00:54:27
weather days which are really calm. And you know, as you sort of go up, there's
00:54:32
different um elements in the atmosphere, different conditions. Uh and so, you know, might be pretty calm at sea level,
00:54:39
but as you go up to the jet streams, it could be 200 km an hour and it looks like it's blue skies and clear, nothing
00:54:45
going on, but you you you get get a bit of a stratification of of what's going
00:54:49
on with with the weather layers. So, there there could be a bunch of different weather layers that you need
00:54:53
to need to punch through. Uh, and you know, these aircraft are are light. They're they're not like a Spitfire
00:54:59
designed for uh aerero aeronautic or aerodynamic kind of behaviors. Uh, so yeah, you just you just need to try and
00:55:08
pick a good weather day to go up. >> I find that so inspiring. Um, I I love
00:55:14
that about this podcast, like getting to speak to New Zealanders like you who are
00:55:18
um just out there out there getting it and doing really cool stuff, getting really cool stuff done. So, does someone
00:55:25
come to you with this idea of K Kia Aerospace and say, you know, Mark, um, you've got the money, I've got this
00:55:30
idea, let's go into business together, or do you have the idea? How does this
00:55:34
how's this sort of born? >> Yeah, I I think you've got to look at what's worked with you before. You know,
00:55:40
for me, I I was sort of filtering different ideas about, you know, what what I could do. And,
00:55:46
>> you know, the litmus test for me is I've got to have a fire in my belly about
00:55:50
really wanting to do it. you know, the reality is you're going to put a lot of
00:55:52
time into that project. So, you want to do something that you're absolutely in
00:55:56
love with. Uh so, yeah, I kind of set up the conditions where I was sort of open
00:56:01
to uh looking for projects that fired up my imagination and uh yeah, and you know, there's a bit of a process. It
00:56:10
took me years as I said to kind of finally land on on this ne next iteration of what I'm doing. Oh yeah,
00:56:17
one thing I read online is um uh to do with K aerospace. Was you looking for investors? And I wanted to um ask about
00:56:24
this from like a I suppose like a perspective of curiosity. Um if you've got the money yourself, why like why
00:56:31
wouldn't you just put your own money in rather than try and get money from other
00:56:33
people? >> Yeah. So yeah, for the MK1 program, I mean I' I'd funded things in the kind of
00:56:39
um early round, the founders round um but we really wanted to bring in some international partners that would open
00:56:46
up doors internationally. Uh so yeah, for for the funding work on the MK1, we we talked to let's say about 100
00:56:55
different potential investors. Uh we had a had a few people lined up that were interested to to invest, but we ended up
00:57:01
just going with one investor based in Austria. He's he's a multi-billionaire
00:57:05
and he comes from a plant and manufacturing background there. So when we move into our manufacturing phase, he
00:57:10
he'll bring in and add a lot of value to that. And now we're about to to do a
00:57:16
funding round for the MK2 to fund the the the larger version. And again, we're
00:57:19
looking for strategic partners because the hopefully the last funding round will be will be the next one, the series
00:57:25
A. And that that next one will basically be building a hundred plus of those aircraft. and uh you know that's going
00:57:32
to take a few bucks to kind of set up the facility for that. But yeah, right now we're on the MK 2 funding round and
00:57:37
you know looking for strategic partners to to help us get get through to the series A.
00:57:42
>> Are there lessons that you've learned from um previous startup phases like
00:57:46
with Rocket Lab and you with the internet stuff that you've taken into this venture or are they all just
00:57:51
completely different? >> Yeah, sure. I mean, you you you just sort of accumulate uh a vast amount of
00:57:56
experience over the years if you're around long enough and and uh yeah, you learn what not to do. Uh you know,
00:58:02
obviously you learn a lot from your mistakes, but hopefully you don't make too many big mistakes. Uh and also you
00:58:07
learn, you know, from what what you did, right? And I think, you know, obviously
00:58:11
you got to be aware that you you can sort of come from the sort of lens of your experience, but you've got to be
00:58:18
open to new ideas and new ways of doing things as well. So, it's it's about kind
00:58:21
of walking that that tight rope of doing what you think is going to work and what
00:58:26
has worked in your experience, but at the same time taking into account th those those new ideas that that need to
00:58:32
come in as well. >> When there's a bad day at the office now, do you get stressed or have you
00:58:37
just been through like everything imaginable in business and you've got the wisdom and the experience to know
00:58:42
that nothing's that drastic? >> Yeah. Well, again, that's where the
00:58:45
balance comes in. you know, you have a bad day where you go for a run or go to the gym or uh go to a movie uh or with
00:58:52
your with your partner or whatever. So, uh yeah, I think having that balance really uh plays a lot uh of advantages
00:58:59
for you. So, >> but yeah, sometimes you're going to have great days and some days you're going to
00:59:04
have some challenges. Um but you just got to keep putting it into into context. >> Does everything you touch turn to gold?
00:59:12
Uh well, I wouldn't say that, but uh >> it's it it seems like that like I mean
00:59:17
it must speak volumes about the way that you work. Like you you commit to something and then you just figure out a
00:59:22
solution or >> there's been a lot of success. >> Well, I think my secret is just stamina,
00:59:28
you know, I just keep on going and uh yeah, and you do have to be aware of when when you do need to pull out. You
00:59:35
know, sometimes people go too far. Um, but yeah, I think, you know, as Richard and Branson has said, you know, you got
00:59:41
to protect your downside. So, you got to think, okay, this is the goal I'm going
00:59:44
for. I'm putting that money aside to do it. And, you know, if if you get past
00:59:49
that red line, you know, don't don't go any deeper than that. >> So, you just got to work out, you know,
00:59:53
where your comfort level is on on the energy you're putting in, on the money
00:59:56
that you're putting in, and uh and and go from there. >> But, yeah, I I think incrementally you
01:00:03
can achieve so much. And I think if you know if you can just improve things by 1% each week, you know, that just makes
01:00:11
such a a difference over a year, over two years, over five years. >> Yeah. Where does that come from? That um
01:00:19
that insatiable appetite for personal growth. >> Yeah. Maybe I didn't feel good enough
01:00:24
when I was a young kid. You know, I think every everyone has stuff that they they kind of work through and um but
01:00:30
yeah, again, you know, science fiction has that sort of creativity. Uh it kind of opens different doors that that you
01:00:39
wouldn't normally think about. >> Uh yeah, I think we all all have our
01:00:43
kind of baggage of, you know, growing up and and the things that that we have. So, yeah, I think if you can try to
01:00:49
channel that into some sort of positive creative way. >> Uh so, yeah. I'm feeling pretty pretty
01:00:55
good where I am now and I feel like I have made a huge huge improvement, a huge step up and just trying to live the
01:01:02
best life that that you can leave, you know, be the best version of you that that you can be.
01:01:09
>> Was there anything in your um in your early years to suggest that you'd have
01:01:12
the entrepreneurial gene? >> Did your parents just have normal jobs or were they was they did they own
01:01:19
businesses or >> Yeah. Um, my dad was a a welder >> and my mother was a stay at home mom and
01:01:26
uh yeah, pretty pretty uh average kind of Kiwi background. And I started working at a a vegetable market garden
01:01:35
uh company when I was uh yeah about yeah 12 13. And that sort of taught me the value of hard work. And we had a pretty
01:01:42
tough boss and he taught me some pretty important lessons there. And uh yeah it was again that was that was a great
01:01:49
opportunity for me to to learn a lot. Drove tractors and >> did lots of cool stuff there.
01:01:54
>> Uh but you know learned the value of hard work as well. you you and all your your your
01:02:00
classmates, your entire school role at primary school, intermediate or secondary school, like in a lineup, no
01:02:05
one would have picked you to be the guy, right? The the guy that went to space, the the guy that set up this
01:02:09
multi-million dollar internet company, the guy that co-founded Rocket Lab, like you've done some impressive stuff. There
01:02:16
was there was nothing um to suggest that you'd be that guy. >> Yeah, I guess I'm probably like the
01:02:21
Forest Gump of the aerospace industry in New Zealand. I just sort of turned up in
01:02:25
the right places. >> Oh, no. You're being very humble. You've mentioned running a couple of times.
01:02:29
Yeah. What role does running play in your life? >> Yeah, I I find that just gives me an
01:02:35
amazing outlet where I can kind of meditate and you get you get into that rhythm. I mean, you've obviously got got
01:02:41
that sensation as well where you you just feel like you're cruising along and
01:02:46
uh sometimes you feel like you're flying and it's just effortless, you know, when
01:02:49
you can build up to that marathon fitness uh when everything's just so easy. I mean obviously there are other
01:02:55
times when it's brutal and you know every step is is quite painful. Um but there's also a lot of
01:03:03
those KS where you know if you're in that rhythm it it all feels so effortless and so I guess I'm I'm always
01:03:09
sort of chasing after that feeling you know you know being being marathon fit. I mean I know a lot of people do ultras
01:03:15
you know head off to them people that do ultramarathons. I mean that that's not
01:03:19
my thing. I'm quite happy uh to to have the the marathon as my kind of apex goal
01:03:25
each year. Um but yeah, there's just something about it I just love. >> And I've been really getting into
01:03:32
strength training and and gym work uh lately and I think you know that's that's a lot of fun as well and I think
01:03:38
it actually helps a lot in the running. I don't know if you do a lot of gym work
01:03:40
but um there's a few years I sort of went off the boil on that and now I've
01:03:44
come back on to it has has helped me a lot. >> Oh Mark, I'm exactly the same. during
01:03:48
the during the pandemic when the gym was shut, I realized, well, actually, this is perfect because I don't like doing
01:03:54
the strength and conditioning and I like running so I can keep running and drop the stuff I don't like. And then um
01:03:58
that's when my knee issue started. >> Yeah. >> Um yeah, the strength and conditioning
01:04:02
training it gives you your stability around the joints and the tendons and muscles um to keep you running.
01:04:08
>> Um >> yeah, you're so right. Some sometimes, you know, to use an analogy that you'd
01:04:13
understand, sometimes when you're running, it feels like you're in a rocket. Then other times it just feels
01:04:17
like you you're trying to run in a space suit. I guess >> that's right.
01:04:21
>> It's hard. Do you There's There's a term nowadays called raw dogging, which
01:04:25
basically means doing it without music or without headphones. Do you do you listen to anything when you run or do
01:04:30
you just are you in your own thoughts? >> I listen to your podcast, Dom. >> Do you?
01:04:33
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I love podcasts, ebooks. Uh I I love sort of history books and uh
01:04:39
biographies, autobiographies, adventure kind of things like that. >> Uh so yeah, and you know, a bit bit of
01:04:46
music at the end to kind of get get you going a little bit at the end to help help you get over the finish line.
01:04:50
Actually, I was doing the Oakland marathon here once and there was a there's a real brutal moment. We'd sort
01:04:54
of gone over the bridge and we got to the very end and then we were just heading back and I think it's around the
01:04:59
30k mark, I think. Is it round about there? And um this guy had been running next to me uh for for about 5 10ks. He
01:05:06
was just sort of running behind me. And uh he was about in his 20s and I think you know I must have been in my my 40s.
01:05:13
And he kind of said uh you know how's it going? I said I'm pretty good. And I
01:05:17
said how many marathons you done? And he said none. I've never run more than 10k.
01:05:22
And he just sort of took off at the 30k mark and kept on going. I don't know if
01:05:26
if he was playing mind games on me, but uh that was like, "Oh my god, I'm
01:05:30
hurting so bad here." And uh yeah, here's this guy just just just took off.
01:05:35
>> Yeah. Well, there's a there's a saying in marathon running that like it doesn't
01:05:37
start until the 30k mark. >> Exactly. >> And you look around and even people that
01:05:41
are looking good at that point, you know that everyone's in their own sort of
01:05:43
hurt, even people that don't show it. How many Yeah. How many How many full marathons have you done?
01:05:48
>> Not sure, but yeah, I've done >> Oh, like heaps. >> Well, Oakland, Wellington, Deneden,
01:05:53
Queenstown, a few Christ Churches. Um, yeah. So, yeah, not not quite sure how many, but probably less than 10.
01:06:01
>> Awesome. Um, what's the biggest adversity you've gone through? >> We'll end with some deep ones.
01:06:12
>> Okay. I'm just like getting to the age of 50's um privilege that you know, you
01:06:18
you I'm sure you've got some friends that have dropped off along the way and
01:06:21
I know I have as well. So, one thing I've realized is that you don't uh get
01:06:25
to the privilege of being in your 50s without going through some sort of adversity.
01:06:30
>> Yeah. I mean, I think you there's times where I probably put a bit too much
01:06:33
effort into my business and not enough onto the personal relationships and, you know, not not having the patience uh
01:06:40
that I needed in those personal relationships. And I I think that sort of taugh taught me a lot. Um so, yeah, I
01:06:47
don't know. I I guess I try and focus on the positives because if you just keep
01:06:50
thinking about all the stuff that has gone wrong, it kind of leaves you in a kind of negative headsp space. So I
01:06:57
think it's healthier for me to just try and focus on where I'm going, how to
01:07:02
keep improving uh and and focus on those positives. But yeah, there have been times when maybe I've sort of gotten
01:07:07
into a bit of a loop about some of those frustrations or things that I perceived
01:07:11
haven't actually gone well. But then 5 10 years later, you look back at it and
01:07:15
go actually that really helped you do XY Z. >> So yeah, I've kind of learned to try not
01:07:23
to focus on on the negatives too much. Try and learn from them. Uh but not not to dwell on them.
01:07:28
>> Yeah. I love that. That's really good advice. Are you Are you on your first
01:07:31
marriage? >> Yes. >> Yeah. Okay. So it's not like Yeah. It's
01:07:35
not like Yeah. It's not like you've got a a trail of failed marriages behind you
01:07:39
or anything like that. It's it's it's hard because there is Yeah. There's 24
01:07:43
hours in the day regardless of who you are and it's like where you choose to
01:07:46
spend that time and it is hard if you're trying to build something I guess to you
01:07:50
keep all those plates spinning at once. >> Exactly. >> What would you say your best and worst
01:07:55
habits are? >> Ah best habits. Um, yeah. Well, I think I just I just have a kind of weekly
01:08:02
ritual which works pretty well for me. I I spent quite a bit of time trying to get it working, you know, from, you
01:08:09
know, getting up in the morning to the end of the day just making sure I squeeze all the different things in
01:08:14
there that I need to. Um, yeah, worst habit. I mean, probably I mean, it can be tricky sometimes. there are so many
01:08:23
kind of temptations and and you want to uh go and have a bit of a party night or
01:08:28
whatever. Uh and you know I I think trying to stick to the ritual which you know is going to be healthier for you
01:08:35
long term. >> Uh but it's easy when you've got a networking kind of event and people say
01:08:41
oh come out for a drink and uh yeah in the past I probably would have said yes too many times. Uh these days I've I've
01:08:49
done pretty well suppressing a lot of that. Um but uh yeah, then again, you know, you go out have have some of those
01:08:56
big nights and you know, you get great experiences and and make really great connections.
01:09:01
>> Uh so it's it's kind of a a tricky one, but um >> yeah. >> What's your relationship like with
01:09:07
alcohol? You much of a drinker? >> Well, I'll try and limit it to a couple
01:09:12
of glasses a night on a Tuesday and a and a Friday. >> Um but yeah, >> they are very random nights of the week.
01:09:20
Why do Why Tuesday and most people sort of go your week nights and then weekend Tuesday and Friday. What is that
01:09:27
deliberate? So you got a separation between them for >> Yeah. Just sort of breaks things up and
01:09:30
you I find you know particularly when you're in that sort of marathon zone it
01:09:35
really interrupts your training then the next days. Um and again if I don't designate a day then it can easily slip
01:09:42
over and it's like you're doing Wednesday and Thursday and um yeah I just find Friday end of the week is
01:09:48
pretty good. uh and sort of Tuesday tend to, you know, just have a bit of a watch
01:09:53
a series on Netflix or whatever it is >> and it's it can be just quite a relaxing
01:09:58
way to start the week as well. >> Yeah. Oh, I like that. Thanks for sharing. Yeah. As I've got um as I've
01:10:04
got older, it's there's things I want to do and alcohol just Yeah. It's it's hard
01:10:08
it's hard to continue my drinking habit and get the things done that I want to
01:10:12
get done. So, alcohol has had to take a spot on the back burner a little bit for
01:10:16
me. >> Yeah. Well, yeah. I think ideally I sort of stick to the Tuesday and Friday. I
01:10:20
mean sometimes it it sloshes over to other days, but you know that's that's
01:10:25
kind of my ideal week. And if you kind of go into the week knowing that's what
01:10:29
your goal is. If you don't have a goal uh in those areas which which can start
01:10:34
flowing over into other areas then yeah if you don't have that goal then some
01:10:38
sometimes you know you're doing more than what you want to do. >> Is there a what if that keeps you up at
01:10:44
night? >> No. No, >> no. I sleep pretty well. >> Yeah. Um, is there a mistake you wish
01:10:51
you could go back and correct? >> Uh, I mean, yeah, I think there's there's a a dozen things, you know, I
01:10:57
look back on that I' I'd uh I'd want to second guess, but it's kind of whatever
01:11:04
those decisions were, whatever happened kind of led you to where you are now. >> So, I think it's uh it's kind of hard.
01:11:11
It's it's like that sort of th those uh time uh timeline kind of movies where
01:11:18
you go back and if you do alter something then it can have profound consequences.
01:11:23
>> So yeah, >> I know what you Yeah. Butterfly Effect is one of those movies and Sliding
01:11:26
Doors. Yeah, >> it's another one. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Everything sort of unravels or
01:11:30
unfolds in life the way it's supposed to. E sort of happens for a reason even
01:11:34
though it doesn't always seem like that at the time. >> Yeah. So yeah, I'm I'm, you know,
01:11:38
touchwood. things are going pretty well where they're at and you know, you just
01:11:42
got to take each day as it comes because you know, anything can happen tomorrow.
01:11:46
>> Uh so you just got to put your best foot forward and try and deal with it as as
01:11:49
best you can and you know, whoever you are on that day, whatever skills, habits you you developed, um you just got to
01:11:56
hope uh you make the right decision. >> What are you most afraid of? Uh yeah, again I don't really think
01:12:04
about that too much, but I mean obviously you know there's things I'm concerned about like you know climate
01:12:09
change and the world political uh real there's a lot of stuff going on which is
01:12:14
like I feel so sorry for my kids you know you know what are we leaving them you know uh so yeah I I think as a
01:12:23
society here in New Zealand there's a lot more that we can do you know as a citizen of the world there's a lot more
01:12:27
that we can do and you know that's one of the reasons with key airspace where
01:12:31
we're focused on providing solutions. They're going to help humanity with
01:12:36
environmental monitoring, disaster response. You know, that that really motivates me. But at the same time,
01:12:42
>> you know, we are sort of moving into an age where the the power dynamic has come
01:12:47
into play a lot more with country interactions and I think that's going to keep increasing uh the way that that
01:12:54
we're seeing things pan out. So yeah, hopefully uh the you know these countries, these
01:13:03
leaders can get together and and and stop the direction that it's going in. >> Um but if not, yeah, I think we're going
01:13:10
to be in for a bumpy decade ahead of us. >> It's an interesting time, isn't it?
01:13:17
>> It is. [Music] >> Um what are your future goals? >> Yeah. Well, at a key aerospace, you
01:13:26
know, the the goal there is to build a fleet of these aircraft and and have these aircraft flying all around the
01:13:33
Pacific, all around the world. I think that'll be just a super cool concept and
01:13:38
to have that based in New Zealand and Australia. Uh so you know as as a company I think that's got some really
01:13:45
exciting potential and you know I'm just going to really enjoy the journey of being part of that
01:13:52
>> and yeah I mean but beyond beyond that you know do do a few more few more trips
01:13:57
and see see a bit of the world and >> trips as to other countries or to galaxies or
01:14:03
>> Yeah. Well you got you yeah it's like you're not you're not one and done e
01:14:08
like you you you desperately want to get back up there. I can tell >> it's got this look in your eye.
01:14:13
>> Yeah. I mean, I'd love to get to orbit one day, but you know, that's that's a
01:14:16
long shot and uh yeah, we'll see. We'll see what happens. But yeah, I've got a
01:14:20
few few little things that are on the back burner and I'll just sort of try and line things up and we'll see what
01:14:26
happens. >> Well, there's still plenty of time. As long as you're fit and healthy, eh,
01:14:31
plenty of time. >> Yeah. You know, I think, you know, that that's one thing I'm really surprised
01:14:36
about. A lot of people in their 50s, Dom, you probably see a lot of your friends and and they've kind of
01:14:41
>> uh yeah, they're they're in that kind of party mode. Uh and you know, that's
01:14:46
great, but yeah, you've really got to look after your health and you know, like we didn't want to go to the gym,
01:14:52
but we realized, hey, it is it's it's better outcomes if we do. >> Uh and you know, eat trying to eat
01:14:57
right. >> Uh you know, you get you you do get a lot of these sort of temptations in in
01:15:01
modern society where it's probably pulling you in the wrong direction. M. >> So, I think yeah, really really just
01:15:07
trying to to have a a healthy vehicle >> to take you around is is pretty important.
01:15:12
>> Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I I got friends that are similar to age to us and they're
01:15:16
sort of like um like tapering off, like winding down. >> Yeah. >> And I'm thinking it's like a sports
01:15:21
game. I'm just in the second half, baby. I'm just getting started. There's still
01:15:25
[ __ ] to be done. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And there's a whole lot of really cool
01:15:28
technology that's been develop developed as well, you know. Uh, you know, I remember when I uh went to a optometrist
01:15:35
when I was a kid and I think I must have been about 10 years old or something like that and the doctor she was I she I
01:15:42
don't know if she approached it the right way but she basically said look Mark you're going to be wearing glasses
01:15:46
for the rest of your life and I I don't know why I cried and uh I thought man
01:15:50
that sucks and you know it really affected me but then you know uh five years ago I got laser eye surgery and
01:15:56
now I've got fantastic vision >> uh and I just think we are lucky that we
01:16:01
live in this age of technology where there's all this really cool stuff that's coming down the pipe
01:16:06
>> and the next 10 20 years, you know, stuff that used to be an issue, you
01:16:10
know, there are going to be solutions there. >> Well, you can even see in the health
01:16:14
sector like um outcomes with cancer diagnosis, you know, it's no longer the the death sentence it was potentially
01:16:20
when we were younger, you know, now the outcomes are often quite good for people.
01:16:24
>> Exactly. >> Yeah. Oh, one thing we didn't talk about is um you're president as well of
01:16:28
Aerospace New Zealand. What what does that role mean? >> Yeah. Well, 2018 was also the time that
01:16:33
we started Key Aerospace, but uh also I started uh working with a group of people in Canterbury about developing uh
01:16:43
an aerospace industry body and that kind of developed into a national aerospace uh body which is focused on advanced
01:16:51
aviation and space. So essentially we all kind of work together you know helping to support each other uh helping
01:16:58
to you know talk to the government with one voice saying hey this is this is what we need as a as an aerospace
01:17:03
ecosystem and uh yeah we have a regular meetups so I've got one in Oakland tonight uh and
01:17:09
also we've got our aerospace summit coming up on October 7th and October 8th
01:17:14
in Christ Church and so yeah essentially we get most of the aerospace participants in New Zealand together
01:17:21
connecting with each We've got delegations coming from numerous countries around the world. Uh
01:17:26
we've got government agencies, academics. So we basically get everyone together exchanging ideas, talking about
01:17:33
new projects, helping to create new projects. >> Uh so yeah, it's just a it's a really
01:17:38
exciting industry. We've got some really cool speakers. Got someone coming from
01:17:42
Blue Origin uh talk talking about what they're doing, what their plans are, and
01:17:46
a whole lot of other super cool companies. And I think it really inspires people in the industry to see
01:17:52
what what's possible and helps them kind of go up to the next level as well.
01:17:57
>> What's it like being in in that room or that environment? And um just knowing in
01:18:00
the back of your mind that you're the only person that's been to space. >> Uh well, I think there are actually
01:18:06
astronauts that have been there and so that wouldn't that wouldn't necessarily
01:18:10
be be the case, but I mean I kind of like to think that actually I know that a lot of these people will be going to
01:18:15
space in the next 10 years. You know, that that's what really excites me. I think uh more people need to kind of see
01:18:22
uh the the context of you know where the world is in the solar system and I think
01:18:27
that'll help humanity move in the right direction. >> Yeah. I love something you you said
01:18:31
earlier in the podcast where you you talked about people not thinking big enough.
01:18:35
>> Yeah. I really love that. That's going to stick with me. >> Yeah.
01:18:39
>> Um what are three words that your family and friends would use to describe you?
01:18:42
>> Oh Jesus. I don't know. >> You're hating this. Yeah. Yeah. Um, can I text you back on
01:18:51
that one? >> Yeah. No. No. I Okay. Or three words that you that you'd like people to use
01:18:56
to describe you like like you're obviously like driven and super focused. Um,
01:19:03
yeah. Like just from sitting with you for the last hour, 20 minutes, I could probably come up with some, but you
01:19:07
could probably come up with some better ones, I reckon. >> Yeah. Well, it depends on the context.
01:19:10
You know, I when I play tennis, I have good days and bad days. And sometimes I get a bit grumpy at myself for not not
01:19:17
getting my shots. Uh, and yeah, I mean, I know there's different everyone wears
01:19:23
different hats, so I don't know. It probably depends on on what what friends
01:19:27
uh you're talking to. >> Yeah. Are you proud of yourself? >> Yeah, I I am. I'm proud to, you know,
01:19:33
where where I've got to and there's a lot more that I I want to achieve as
01:19:36
well. But yeah, again, I come from pretty pretty humble beginnings and uh there was all sorts of other scenarios.
01:19:43
Actually, my probably my first kind of runin with the uh with the aviation industry uh was when I uh had a had a
01:19:53
night out with my friend and uh basically I think we we were just seen the Karate Kid movie or something and I
01:19:58
ended up doing a spin kick and broke a big window at Continental Airlines. And so this big glass window broke and I
01:20:08
remember seeing the Continental Airlines plane, you know, like got the model airplane there and the and it broke and
01:20:13
I thought, "Oh man." And so we ran away uh but ended up people saw us running
01:20:17
away and we're on the last bus home back out to the beach where I was living and
01:20:22
the cops came on the bus uh took me off the bus and uh spent the the night in the cells there and uh yeah that that
01:20:31
was kind of a real a real turning point for me where I realized I could have gone into a whole different direction in
01:20:37
my life if I had to keep you know doing that stu stupid stuff that I was doing. And again that sort of sliding doors
01:20:43
type scenario, you know, you have choices every day and you can either, you know, continue down that road and,
01:20:49
you know, I was there with my hands behind the bars when I was about, I don't know, 16, 17 or whatever and
01:20:56
thinking, [ __ ] this is this this could be me and this this is not fun. Uh, so yeah, sometimes you get those sort of
01:21:03
wakeup calls uh which just just really push you in the right direction. 16, 17. That feels a bit old to be doing
01:21:10
Ralph Machio karate kicks on the Who picked you up? Did you have to call your parents to
01:21:17
>> Yeah. And I think they were out at a at a party that night and so they didn't
01:21:21
think I the cops didn't think I gave them the right number. And uh yeah, the
01:21:24
next morning when they came in, uh yeah, it was bit awkward. >> Yeah. Were you in big trouble or was it
01:21:30
one of those situations where you're at that age where they're like, "Mark,
01:21:33
we're not mad, we're just disappointed." Uh yeah, I mean that yeah, I think they
01:21:37
they handled it pretty well in the end. Um but uh yeah, no, it really sort of scared me straight.
01:21:46
>> One one night in jail will do that. Yeah, >> I reckon 10 minutes incarceration would
01:21:50
would be enough for me to be scared straight. Oh, what what a story to end with. Thanks for sharing that. That was
01:21:55
great. >> Hey, um this has been really enjoyable today. Um yeah, you've been on my radar
01:22:00
for a long time and I'm pleased we finally finally connected. I I get the sense you're not a man that's um overly
01:22:07
comfortable like talking about yourself and your various achievements. So, I appreciate you being here today.
01:22:12
>> Yeah. Well, thanks thanks for asking me and u yeah I think you know one of the
01:22:16
key reasons is I I really want to share with people that we've got this amazing
01:22:20
aerospace industry that's emerging in New Zealand and I I really hope New Zealand gets behind it and supports the
01:22:26
great work that that we can be doing. And uh yeah, I mean you look back all all of our forefathers have come from a
01:22:34
long way away to to be here in New Zealand. And I think it's in our DNA to kind of explore and I think a lot of
01:22:40
Kiwis a lot of Kiwis are going to be exploring the solar system. So I think the next hundred years are going to be
01:22:47
pretty exciting. >> Mark Rocket, thank you for coming on my podcast. >> Thank you.