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welcome to the best interest podcast
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where we believe Benjamin Franklin's
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advice that an investment in knowledge
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pays the best interest both in finances
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and in your life every episode teaches
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you personal finance and investing in
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simple terms now here's your host Jesse
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Kramer hello everybody and welcome to
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episode 61 of the best interest podcast
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my name is Jesse Kramer cool episode for
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you today the featured guests is a man
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named Jordan grummet otherwise known as
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doc G he's a personal finance podcaster
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mainly that's how a lot of people know
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him through his awesome podcast earn and
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invest he's also a doctor he's a hospice
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doctor and we'll get into exactly what
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that means being a hospice doctor but
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long story short Jordan has a really
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interesting set of experiences and he's
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got interesting viewpoints when it comes
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to life and death and then you add in
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his personal finance expertise and he's
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got some really cool thoughts when it
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comes to life death and money living a
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fulfilled life planning for the end and
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how money should act as a tool to get
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you where you want to go in
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between and before we really get into
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Jordan and Jordan's interview today I
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want to talk about something that I
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wrote a couple summers ago I wrote it
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June of 2021 which interestingly for me
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at least was before my career transition
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it was certainly something I was
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thinking about actively but I hadn't yet
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switched careers and I wrote this
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article in June of 2021 we will throw a
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link into the show notes and the article
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is called this is where life happens
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you're going about your life maintaining
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the status quo you're in what I call the
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pit of ignorance now don't worry we'll
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Define what that means but then one day
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when you're down in the pit of ignorance
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you learn about something called the big
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idea and the big idea it blows your mind
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you feel like the world is your oyster
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you're filled with this motivation and
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it makes you want to achieve a new goal
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and in that moment of excitement you're
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at the peak of Enlightenment but
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unfortunately you're only there
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momentarily because you then realize
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that the goal is harder than you thought
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it's going to take a lot of time to get
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there there's no substitute for that
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time and the hard work that is entailed
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to get you to your goal and so a long
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period of relative monotony ensues you
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have to slog through what I call the
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valley of drudgery and it is a long slog
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days months and years can go by and
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eventually you do start making progress
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and the excitement returns to you you
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start slowly ascending the slopes of
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soon as I call them and the closer you
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get to the goal the more excited you get
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and eventually yes you hit your goal you
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have mounted goal Summit now I encourage
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you guys to look at this article because
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in my nerdy Excel engineer way I I
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plotted this landscape out using
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Microsoft Excel using a spreadsheet
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using a graph from a spreadsheet and you
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can kind of see what I mean how your
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excitement varies over time when you
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think of some really cool goal and then
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eventually reach that goal you do get
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this short burst of excitement early on
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but then any goal worth pursuing takes a
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long time takes a lot of hard work and
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there often isn't that much excitement
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during that stretch of time until
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eventually you kind of get closer to the
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goal and a lot of your excitement
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returns to you now most people have
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lived this experience at some point in
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their life but the question that I ask
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myself and I think the question that you
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should ask yourself is how do we avoid
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that long slow boring Valley of drudgery
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as I call it how do we avoid that that
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long period of monotonous day after day
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doing the same thing how do we fill that
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time period with some sort of Joy now I
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think that little landscape it applies
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to many goals that the big idea the big
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exciting idea that you have it could be
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anything it might be a new weight loss
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plan you know Fitness losing weight
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that's exciting but the execution as we
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all probably know can be painful there's
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a long slog through that Valley of
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drudgery one pound at a time before the
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results really start getting exciting
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for you another example entrepreneur
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they get big ideas for new businesses
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but then actual entrepreneurship
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involves years of grinding away little
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wins along the way they certainly help
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but it takes a lot of time and effort to
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reach the eventual entrepreneurship goal
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and there's a lot of failure just
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outright failure along the way too and
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yes this plot certainly applies this
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idea applies to personal finance to
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retirement planning to saving money the
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fire Community Financial Independence
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and retiring early that is a perfect
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example they should know all about this
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landscape learning about fire the idea
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that you might be able to retire at age
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40 or 45 or 50 it's a really cool
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mindblowing idea that excites you when
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you learn about it and for a few weeks
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maybe even a few months it might consume
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you and you start thinking about all the
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ways that you can reach fire sooner it's
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really cool but that excitement wears
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off after a few months and what remains
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in absence of that excitement is a
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simple truth it's hard to rush fire you
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can only save so much money and you you
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can't really choose how the investment
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markets will make your money grow it's
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going to take years and years and years
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before you reach your fire goal the
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important details and the important
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knowledge you can learn all of that in a
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few weeks and then maybe it takes
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another week for you to create your
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master plan and and you're really there
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at the peak of Enlightenment early on
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but then it might take 15 years of
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repetitive plotting to execute that plan
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it really is a valley of
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drudgery so maybe by now you've caught
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my drift peaks of Enlightenment are
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short-lived goal Summits at the end
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they're rewarding but fleeting and
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instead most of life is spent down in
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the valley of drudgery that right there
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that is where life
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happens and we might think that's kind
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of depressing our life happens down at
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the bottom of the valley of drudgery but
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I think we need to wait we shouldn't cry
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a river just yet because I have good
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news or at least good news that's helped
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me in my life because we each have a
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choice the drudgery can be boring if we
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allow it to be we can get stuck in the
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dolrs there or to continue our watery
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puns we can flood the valley of drudgery
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with the Simple Pleasures of life and
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set sail we can take our life's boat
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across on a higher plane the daily
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mundaneness it fades Into Obscurity it
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disappears and a sea of Simple Pleasures
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keeps life fun and and fresh now full
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disclosure flooding your Valley it it
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certainly can be a struggle I wish
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personally that I was this ever-flowing
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Fountain of of flowers and butterflies
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and happiness we actually talked about
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this recently on episode 59 of the
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podcast about the power of positivity
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but but also the limits of positivity
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and the fact that we can't all be
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positive people all the time that's just
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not realistic it's also probably not
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even healthy we all have bad days I
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certainly suffer days of sluggish
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boredom but most of the time I'm able to
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make drudgery fun as oxymoronic as that
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sounds you know everyone I know has to
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Traverse this landscape in some way
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shape or form you probably do too and
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that means that dayto day that tedium is
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either going to grind you down or you're
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going to have to find a way to let it
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fill your sales you know to quote Andy
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duin from the Sha Shank Redemption
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I guess it comes down to a simple Choice
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really you're busy
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living get busy
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die one of the earliest posts I wrote
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here on the best interest features my
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really good friend Tyler soash such a
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good friend in fact that Tyler was the
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efficient in my wedding last September
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Tyler hiked 7,000 mi in 13 months Once
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Upon a Time he covered the Pacific Crest
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Trail that goes from Canada down to
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Mexico then he did T aroa that's the
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north the South Continental Trail across
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New Zealand and then he flew back to
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Atlanta and did the Appalachian Trail
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from Georgia to Maine he did that all in
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13 months again 7,000 miles now I'm sure
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that planning the trip was super
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exciting for Tyler I mean who doesn't
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like planning a big trip he I'm sure was
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flying high on the peak of Enlightenment
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and we know that finishing a good hike
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you know that the final steps along that
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long Trail the the last few steps up to
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the summit of a mountain that's really
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exhilarating it's such a good feeling
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it's truly summiting your goal but then
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I think about the other 7,000 miles did
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Tyler spend most of that 7,000 miles
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deep down in the the depressing Valley
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of drudgery no way there's no way he was
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floating on a sea of Simple Pleasures he
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was exploring new worlds and sleeping
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under the stars and yes he was eating
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bowls of oatmeal to fend off hiker
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hunger meeting new friends along the way
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and and so-called Trail angels that
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Journey the journey itself the 7,000
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miles that's where life happens and if
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each step is a chore you're probably
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never going to make it the final mile is
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really nice but that's just this
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fleeting book end to what otherwise was
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a long challenging Journey back in that
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article I wrote I said summoning Mount
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Kaden at Trail's End will feel great for
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about an hour hour but the glory will
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wear off you'll be left with either the
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memories of wildf flower prairies and
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wild horses or with the regret of Sword
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legs and grimy
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discomfort so back to today do you want
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to get rich do you want to retire early
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maybe you just want to get out of debt
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that's awesome you should get after
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those goals take them one step at a time
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and make sure you enjoy the sites along
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the way now it's funny again I have to
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go back to episode 59 of the podcast cuz
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I'm about to talk about 5 a.m. Jo I've
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learned a ton from 5 a.m. Joel who was
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on episode 59 and then we also spoke
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Once Upon a Time on episode 7 of the
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best interest podcast if you don't know
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him Joel's an Aussie he's living in Los
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Angeles he he's run his own personal
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blogs in the past and now he he does a
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lot of writing for the very well done
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how to money newsletter and the how to
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money podcast and I bring up Joel here
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because of his boundless optimism Joel
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for many many years sent an email to his
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readers every single day at 5:00 a.m. it
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was short and sweet it usually only took
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30 seconds to read and each day he had
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some sort of inspiring message or just a
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little drop from Joel's personal sea of
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Simple Pleasures a story about Cooper
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his dog a picture of a Blooming Garden
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some quick anecdote just about bringing
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some simple joy into the world and the
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best part at least I found was that his
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emails filled my C as well and at at
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zero cost to Joel optimism is freely
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shared and a rising tide raises All
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Ships Joel was clearly enjoying his
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journey high above the valley of
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drudgery he shared that with us and he
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helped us all out as well you know Joel
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it turns out is a everyday normal Joe
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personal finance Superstar with savings
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somewhere between you know Barista fire
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and actual early retirement but he
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barely ever mentions that he's too busy
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surfing he's too busy walking Cooper
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it's the Simple Pleasures in life and I
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know I've been bleeding dry these water
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references maybe I'm just thirsty but
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here's one more and this one comes from
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one of my favorite speeches that you've
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heard before here on the best interest
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podcast David Foster Wallace's this is
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water he says there are these two fish
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swimming along and they happen to meet
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an older fish swimming the other way who
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nods at them and says morning boys how's
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the water and the two young fish they
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swim on for a bit and then eventually
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one of them looks over at the other and
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goes what the hell is water the message
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from the speech is exactly what we're
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discussing today it's all too easy to
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swim through life while forgetting that
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we're surrounded by life itself this is
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life the journey itself is everything in
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his speech David Foster Wallace
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explained to the graduating seniors at
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Kenyan college that life will eventually
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drag them down into the valley of
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drudgery unless they realized they had a
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choice that choice is how to think how
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to view the world how to see their their
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fellow men and women will they see The
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Simple Pleasures hiding in plain sight
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our quote unquote default setting as
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Wallace says is to view ourselves as the
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protagonist of the world think about it
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there is no experience you have had that
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you were not at the absolute center of
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the world as you experience it is there
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in front of you or behind you to the
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left or right of you on your TV or your
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monitor and so on but the world doesn't
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have happen to us we're not the main
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characters in some TV show even though
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it's hard to fight that feeling it
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happens with us it happens around us
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we're each just a minor character in
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someone else's play so try as you might
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you should turn off that default setting
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and tune into the simple experiences
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occurring around you you might be upset
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at me mounted here high on my seahorse
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so I'm going to steal another one of
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David Foster Wallace's lines right here
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again please don't think I'm giving you
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moral advice or that I'm saying you're
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supposed to think this way or that
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anyone expects you to just automatically
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do it because it's hard it takes will
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and effort and if you were like me some
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days you won't be able to do it or you
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just flat out won't want to sees rise
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sees fall and the Sea of Simple
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Pleasures is no different I've had
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plenty of bad days especially at the
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time when I was writing this over the
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last year of covid covid was really hard
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on a lot of people including me but when
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my cup runs dry I've found reprieve in
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the simple things the end of the journey
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will eventually come I'm working hard to
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Summit my goals but if I don't quite
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make it work I'll be okay why because
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this is water this is where life happens
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and life itself is our
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buoy now speaking of finding purpose in
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life one of my favorite things about Dr
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Jordan grummet is his three words saying
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purpose identity and connections it's a
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quick easy way to remember that which is
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important life or at least that which we
00:15:00
should try to prioritize in life and we
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do dive into that in this conversation
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that you're about to hear but first a
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little bit about Dr Jordan grummet or
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doc G he's a medical doctor who loves
00:15:11
his family loves side hustles
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contemplating retiring early and the
00:15:15
philosophy of financial Independence he
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hosts the popular earn and invest
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podcast which has won a plutus award as
00:15:22
the best in-class podcast that's kind of
00:15:24
like the Oscars for personal finance
00:15:26
content I'm pretty honored that the best
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interest the blog my writing was
00:15:30
nominated for a plutus award on the
00:15:32
writing side last year and back to
00:15:35
Jordan ulyses press recently published a
00:15:38
book that Jordan wrote called taking
00:15:40
stock a hospice doctor's advice on
00:15:42
financial Independence Building Wealth
00:15:43
and living a regret-free life a book
00:15:46
that incorporates doc G's experience as
00:15:48
a hospice doctor working with dying
00:15:50
patients and his expertise in personal
00:15:53
finance doc she shares a unique and
00:15:55
Powerful perspective on personal finance
00:15:58
and investment
00:15:59
and how you should think about it in
00:16:00
your
00:16:03
[Music]
00:16:11
life all right Jordan doc G thanks for
00:16:14
being here I I'd love to start the
00:16:16
conversation with the end of your book's
00:16:20
subtitle living a regret-free
00:16:22
life what exactly does that mean to you
00:16:26
it's a great question and and part of
00:16:28
the reason is it's going to mean
00:16:30
something different to everybody but
00:16:33
what I found both in my financial career
00:16:35
and as a hospice doctor is that when
00:16:37
people get to the end of life it's
00:16:39
incredibly clarifying and they look back
00:16:42
at their life and they say well what did
00:16:43
I do what didn't I do what are some of
00:16:45
those things I didn't accomplish or what
00:16:47
dreams didn't I live up to and so living
00:16:50
a regret free life is actually trying to
00:16:52
address those things before you get
00:16:54
terminally ill start thinking about them
00:16:56
today as opposed to putting them off to
00:16:58
some other time which may or may not
00:17:01
come we don't know how many days we have
00:17:03
left on this Earth hopefully we have
00:17:05
many many but you could be like my
00:17:07
father who died suddenly when he was 40
00:17:09
and so the idea is to start thinking
00:17:11
about what are those things that are
00:17:12
deeply important to you now and maybe
00:17:15
pursuing them sooner than later that's
00:17:17
interesting that that okay the idea of
00:17:20
how many days do I have left something I
00:17:21
was thinking about over the last couple
00:17:23
days Jordan preparing for this
00:17:25
conversation one of my struggles that
00:17:28
you made me realize as I listen to some
00:17:29
of your other podcasts I struggle with
00:17:32
what I call zero days or or maybe near
00:17:34
zero days in short some days I feel
00:17:38
inspired and motivated and efficient and
00:17:40
I just I squeeze the marrow out of life
00:17:43
but then once in a while and it might
00:17:44
even be like once a month usually on a
00:17:46
weekend I'll have some sort of slow Lazy
00:17:49
Day that just feels like a complete
00:17:50
waste and I bet a hospice patient
00:17:54
someone that you might be seeing on a
00:17:56
regular basis would see me living that
00:17:58
day and they'd grab me and shake me for
00:18:01
the opportunity that I'm wasting and so
00:18:03
I'm just curious from your experience as
00:18:05
a hospice doctor do you have any advice
00:18:08
or lessons when it comes to seizing this
00:18:11
this one and only life we have I think
00:18:14
sometimes we get too CAU up on the
00:18:16
should ofes like I should have spent
00:18:18
that day doing something I think when it
00:18:21
comes down to it when I talk to these
00:18:22
dying patients it's not that they did or
00:18:25
didn't do on what day it was more these
00:18:27
large swaths of things that they didn't
00:18:30
do it's actually my same problem with
00:18:32
bucketless items people are like boy I
00:18:35
really dream of going to Australia and
00:18:37
living in Melbourne for for a week and
00:18:40
and that sounds great it's like a bucket
00:18:42
list item those aren't those things that
00:18:44
people regret like not taking the time
00:18:45
to do that one thing or that one trip
00:18:47
it's more these big swats of I wish I
00:18:49
spent more of my time traveling or
00:18:51
seeing the world or doing these things
00:18:53
that felt very purposeful and the truth
00:18:56
of the matter is part of our purpose is
00:18:57
rest too so I don't think you're missing
00:19:00
out because of one day or even one week
00:19:02
now if you spend years and years putting
00:19:05
things off and doing nothing then it's a
00:19:07
problem but we're really talking
00:19:10
about these larger ideas these larger
00:19:14
activities it's not what we do today or
00:19:16
tomorrow but it's what really fills our
00:19:18
time over long periods that I think is
00:19:21
more important so then what are some
00:19:25
thoughts or
00:19:26
exercises that you found successful that
00:19:29
you might recommend someone who is
00:19:31
younger and healthier some exercise that
00:19:33
they start doing right now to identify
00:19:36
those big large swats in life that are
00:19:40
going to bring them long-term Joy
00:19:41
prevent some sort of regret on their
00:19:43
deathbed are there any tactics you
00:19:45
recommend so what we're really talking
00:19:47
about is is finding a sense of purpose
00:19:49
and identity and that is a long-term
00:19:52
thing right you don't just say tomorrow
00:19:53
I have the day off I'm going to figure
00:19:55
out who I am and what I want in life but
00:19:57
there are most most definitely some
00:19:59
techniques that can be used I talk about
00:20:01
this in my book taking stock one of them
00:20:03
is the Life review so we do a Life
00:20:04
review with dying patients and what that
00:20:06
is is a structured series of questions
00:20:08
in which people can look back at their
00:20:10
life and digest it right what was
00:20:12
important to me what wasn't important to
00:20:13
me who are the important people what
00:20:15
were my greatest moments what were my
00:20:17
worst moments what did I accomplish what
00:20:19
do I wish I had accomplished so doing a
00:20:21
Life review is actually a fantastic way
00:20:23
for a young person to start thinking
00:20:25
about what is purposeful for them to day
00:20:29
there are all sorts of Life reviews you
00:20:30
can find them if you go searching online
00:20:33
the one sentencer that I say people can
00:20:35
always start with is if I found out I
00:20:37
was going to die in the next few months
00:20:39
what would I really regret never having
00:20:41
the energy courage or time to do and so
00:20:44
really meditating on that I think is a
00:20:47
very very good start there are a bunch
00:20:49
of different other techniques everything
00:20:51
from starting to look back at your
00:20:52
childhood right often we have these huge
00:20:55
dreams in childhood and we eventually
00:21:00
start ignoring them as Society tells us
00:21:02
what we're supposed to do who we're
00:21:04
supposed to be and specifically what we
00:21:05
can't do like that's not something
00:21:07
grown-ups do how many kids hear that
00:21:09
right and so they let go of these
00:21:11
childhood dreams so some of it is
00:21:13
actually going back to your childhood
00:21:14
and say well what lit me up what were my
00:21:16
happiest moments I love to ask people
00:21:18
when was the last time you woke up in
00:21:19
the middle of the night excited by an
00:21:20
idea and you couldn't go back to sleep
00:21:22
what happens for most people when that
00:21:24
occurs usually they wake up the next day
00:21:26
they're groggy they're tired have work
00:21:28
they have the kids they have everything
00:21:30
on their schedule and they forget about
00:21:32
it and they move on and that thing that
00:21:34
had them so enthralled in the middle of
00:21:35
the night is gone my goal is to get
00:21:38
people to start thinking about these
00:21:40
things again and I've even evolved as
00:21:42
I've been talking about these things
00:21:43
even after I wrote the book you start
00:21:45
realizing that purpose isn't something
00:21:47
you per se find it's something you
00:21:49
create so what you're really looking for
00:21:51
what are these threads of things that
00:21:53
seem important to me and then how can I
00:21:54
start creating a life or a sense of
00:21:57
purpose around them
00:21:58
if none of that works there's the Old
00:22:00
Spaghetti method which is you take the
00:22:02
spaghetti through it against the wall
00:22:03
and see what sticks which means you put
00:22:05
yourself up for all sorts of new
00:22:07
activities experiences that you've never
00:22:09
done before and see what gratifies you
00:22:13
so let's dive into that I've heard a few
00:22:15
times now Jordan you have some wonderful
00:22:18
I call them three-word phrases one of
00:22:21
yours is purpose identity and
00:22:23
connections another one that you just
00:22:24
mentioned was energy courage and time so
00:22:27
let's dive into really quickly to
00:22:28
purpose identity and connections I think
00:22:30
if I slow down and think about them one
00:22:32
not one by one I know exactly what
00:22:34
you're talking about but right there you
00:22:36
you just mentioned purpose and you
00:22:38
mentioned I think slowing down to really
00:22:40
try to identify your specific purpose
00:22:43
over the long run and you even started
00:22:44
to to say that recently or maybe over
00:22:46
the past few years you've done a better
00:22:48
job with that maybe do you mind sharing
00:22:50
your story of kind of honing in further
00:22:53
and further on your purpose and then if
00:22:55
we have time we can expand to Identity
00:22:57
and connections from there there yeah
00:22:58
and and I like to start the conversation
00:23:00
by saying that purpose doesn't have to
00:23:01
be a big thing it can be a small thing
00:23:03
and your purpose can change from time to
00:23:04
time and you can have many purposes so
00:23:06
when I was little seven years old my
00:23:08
father died and he was a doctor and I
00:23:10
decided that cosmically I could make the
00:23:12
world right by becoming a doctor like
00:23:14
him it could somehow make up for the
00:23:15
fact that he died way too young and it
00:23:16
made no sense and so for a very
00:23:19
beginning of my life becoming a doctor
00:23:21
was very purposeful for me and it
00:23:23
actually filled me up it brought me lots
00:23:25
of Joy it pushed me to study really hard
00:23:27
and really for the first 20 30 years of
00:23:29
life that was my singular purpose
00:23:32
because it was my purpose it became also
00:23:34
my identity the sense of who are you
00:23:36
well I'm the guy who's going to become a
00:23:37
doctor and eventually I was the guy who
00:23:39
did become a doctor as time went on
00:23:42
though and I started practicing medicine
00:23:44
I realized that that purpose wasn't
00:23:46
serving me I was getting burned out I
00:23:48
wasn't enjoying it as much as I wanted
00:23:51
to and I started realizing that the
00:23:53
sense of purpose and identity wasn't
00:23:54
fitting because I wasn't really
00:23:56
identifying as a doctor like I would
00:23:58
feel uncomfortable in the hospital
00:24:01
cafeteria hanging out with the other
00:24:02
doctors when I went to parties I
00:24:04
wouldn't want to tell other people what
00:24:05
I did for a living it was only later on
00:24:08
that I realized that that outward shell
00:24:10
of a purpose and an identity that I had
00:24:12
around me didn't fit how I felt
00:24:15
internally internally I was a lot more
00:24:17
creative and I was a lot more interested
00:24:19
in communication I loved writing I loved
00:24:22
public speaking all these things that I
00:24:23
never gave myself permission to do
00:24:25
because I somehow told myself that isn't
00:24:27
something you do for a living so I had
00:24:30
been writing on the side i' had been
00:24:31
writing a medical blog for years and I
00:24:33
would do it during like weekends and
00:24:35
nights and lunch hours I mean I was so
00:24:37
busy with my life that I often didn't
00:24:39
edit it so I would get all these
00:24:40
comments about how bad my grammar was
00:24:43
but the point was it was so important to
00:24:45
me to fit that in but I never thought
00:24:47
maybe that those things identify me are
00:24:50
more purposeful for me than being a
00:24:52
doctor only when I realized the Boon of
00:24:55
financial Independence and that I had
00:24:56
enough money to do whatever I wanted did
00:24:58
I give myself permission to put that
00:25:00
identity of being a doctor down because
00:25:02
it wasn't serving me and start thinking
00:25:05
well if I'm going to start identifying
00:25:07
myself different a big part of that is
00:25:09
what is purposeful to me and I had to
00:25:11
really look at myself and I started
00:25:13
going back to Childhood and these things
00:25:16
that I was doing that I was squirreling
00:25:17
into these little moments I'd been
00:25:19
writing poetry since I was in high
00:25:20
school or middle school I had been
00:25:23
spending my time writing a medical blog
00:25:26
whenever I could fit in the little bit
00:25:28
of extra time these were the things that
00:25:30
were speaking to me and so I started
00:25:32
exploring those and actually found what
00:25:35
I would call a much more durable sense
00:25:36
of purpose in creating these
00:25:40
conversations delving deeply into why we
00:25:42
do what we do forming a podcast writing
00:25:46
a Blog doing a bunch of public speaking
00:25:47
eventually writing taking stock that was
00:25:50
a purpose that fit me better and because
00:25:52
it fit me better it felt better and I
00:25:56
often talk about purpose ident identity
00:25:57
and connections but they're really very
00:26:00
connected right because we end up
00:26:03
identifying who we are based on what is
00:26:05
important to us what our sense of
00:26:07
purpose is and purpose and identity
00:26:09
eventually if you find what fits you
00:26:11
leads to connections so I had talked
00:26:14
about this fact that I didn't feel
00:26:15
comfortable around other doctors I
00:26:17
hadn't really built a community or built
00:26:19
some of those deeper connections but
00:26:21
when I discovered that what I really
00:26:22
wanted to be was a communicator and I
00:26:24
loved podcasting and blogging and
00:26:26
writing I found myself going to
00:26:28
conferences and meeting other people who
00:26:30
felt that same sense of purpose and
00:26:32
identity and I automatically connected
00:26:34
with them I mean in a way that I had
00:26:36
never connected with doctors I had spent
00:26:38
a decade or two around doctors and and
00:26:40
had almost no doctor friends I went to
00:26:42
some of these Financial conferences met
00:26:44
other bloggers and podcasters and I have
00:26:47
more deep friendships and connections
00:26:49
over the last few years than I've ever
00:26:51
had in my life that's amazing and I can
00:26:54
relate to some extent Jordan now I think
00:26:57
many listeners probably know this you
00:26:59
you might not know this I spent six
00:27:01
years of my late teens early 20s
00:27:03
preparing to be an engineer then spent
00:27:06
seven years the first seven years of my
00:27:07
career focused on engineering but then
00:27:11
in my brain I always had a love for
00:27:12
Education my parents are both teachers I
00:27:15
spent a lot of time in college being a a
00:27:17
teaching assistant teaching some courses
00:27:19
also had this passion for personal
00:27:21
finance and investing and so I pivoted a
00:27:24
year and a half ago I pivoted well
00:27:26
really four and a half years ago is when
00:27:27
I started this blog started the podcast
00:27:29
like you I just love communicating I
00:27:31
really love educating and then a year
00:27:34
and a half ago professionally I pivoted
00:27:36
so now I'm working at a fiduciary you
00:27:38
know wealth management firm helping
00:27:41
clients educating clients on how better
00:27:44
to invest how to do their long-term
00:27:46
Financial plans and I feel much more
00:27:48
fulfilled I feel like my my daily
00:27:51
purpose is much more aligned with
00:27:53
something deep inside that that I've
00:27:54
been seeking out so can totally relate
00:27:57
to how good that feels and you know
00:28:00
let's add in another layer to this you
00:28:02
and I like talking about money but
00:28:04
notice how money didn't really income
00:28:05
into this conversation maybe you could
00:28:06
have made a lot more as an
00:28:08
engineer but you're finding yourself
00:28:10
more fulfilled and what I learned in
00:28:12
medicine is even though I could make a
00:28:13
lot of money doing it I was less
00:28:15
fulfilled and that led to burnout and
00:28:18
burnout actually led to a very short
00:28:20
career when I listen to stories like
00:28:22
yours you realize that you may get to
00:28:25
that Financial place you want to get a
00:28:27
touch slower M but your career
00:28:30
trajectory will be much longer because
00:28:31
you're actually finding a sense of
00:28:32
purpose and identity now in the work
00:28:34
you're doing and you're creating a life
00:28:36
for yourself you don't want to escape
00:28:38
from so this idea of I I have to retire
00:28:40
really quick so I can live the life I
00:28:42
want to live that disappears and you're
00:28:44
like wait I'm living the life I want to
00:28:46
live regardless if I'm retired or not
00:28:48
but in the meantime you can build this
00:28:50
beautiful Financial framework around
00:28:52
that to support freedom and retirement
00:28:54
and all those things when you're ready
00:28:56
for them and I think that's the ultimate
00:28:59
goal I completely agree with you Jordan
00:29:02
the way that I got involved in the whole
00:29:04
personal finance investing fire movement
00:29:07
part of it had to do with I'm working as
00:29:09
an engineer not really loving my dayto
00:29:11
day I want to look for a different way
00:29:13
to do things fire financial Independence
00:29:16
retiring early was one of those paths
00:29:18
that clicked with me it made sense to my
00:29:20
mathematical mind I'm going for it it
00:29:23
didn't necessarily make me any happier
00:29:25
to see my fire day get closer and closer
00:29:28
nothing like that and eventually I
00:29:30
realized I just don't enjoy my
00:29:33
day-to-day work it's not that I really
00:29:35
want to retire I just want to do
00:29:37
something else other than sit in a cube
00:29:39
and working as an engineer I haven't
00:29:42
really thought about fire over the past
00:29:44
year Financial Independence I still
00:29:46
think will happen I still have good
00:29:48
personal finance habits that will bring
00:29:50
fi into my life sooner than maybe the
00:29:53
average person the re portion not really
00:29:56
thinking about it at all and I think
00:29:58
that's again going back to you know
00:30:01
purpose and identity I think that's a
00:30:03
really big reason why our money is
00:30:06
supposed to support the life we want to
00:30:08
live what we're starting to realize now
00:30:10
is that the life we want to live can
00:30:13
support our financial needs so it can go
00:30:15
the other way around and I think those
00:30:18
of us who started in that really
00:30:20
traditional fire
00:30:22
movement didn't see that we just saw
00:30:25
work really hard make as much money as
00:30:27
you can and buy your freedom I don't
00:30:30
think we realized a lot of us that we
00:30:32
could actually start creating our
00:30:35
freedom and our purpose
00:30:37
now and have our money serve us on that
00:30:40
pathway as opposed to waiting until we
00:30:42
got to some net worth number and I think
00:30:44
it's fine if you want to do things that
00:30:46
way but all of us know someone who hit
00:30:49
the retirement date and a week later got
00:30:52
diagnosed with a cancer or something
00:30:53
else you just don't know how long you
00:30:55
have I think it's sad had this idea of
00:30:58
if you keep on putting off happiness or
00:31:00
keep on putting off the things that are
00:31:02
purposeful for you at some point you may
00:31:05
miss the boat and that's in fact what we
00:31:07
often talk to hospice patients dying
00:31:10
patients about and my goal is to keep us
00:31:12
all from getting to that right that's
00:31:14
what we really mean by no regrets is
00:31:15
living the life you want to live today
00:31:18
so that whenever death comes you can
00:31:20
feel like you did those important things
00:31:23
I had a former cooworker of mine Jordan
00:31:25
who was one of if not the most respected
00:31:27
engineers in our facility of you know
00:31:30
three or 400 Engineers this guy you know
00:31:32
top 1% 30-year career scientist
00:31:36
extremely smart very kind individual
00:31:39
retired a little bit early I think he
00:31:41
retired around 55 or
00:31:43
57 and within six months of retiring
00:31:46
after a hike had a catastrophic heart
00:31:49
attack and died you know died before he
00:31:51
hit the ground that kind of thing and it
00:31:54
really just brought into Focus that
00:31:57
tomorrow isn't promised and I I do think
00:31:59
he got a lot of joy out of his work but
00:32:02
still the fact that retirement was
00:32:05
probably a goal of his and he reached
00:32:07
that goal and six months later it was
00:32:09
done was a really impactful moment for
00:32:12
me yeah I I have a funny not funny but I
00:32:16
have actually the best role model for
00:32:17
this my father who died at 40 yeah he
00:32:20
loved his job he loved photography he
00:32:23
loved
00:32:24
travel that guy pursued his pth passions
00:32:27
all the way up to the moment he died in
00:32:29
fact when he got done with his
00:32:30
Fellowship he got offered a very
00:32:32
prestigious high-paying job he was a
00:32:34
cancer doctor oncologist in a private
00:32:36
practice and he turned it down to work
00:32:38
at the Veterans Affairs Hospital
00:32:40
connected to the university which paid
00:32:43
almost
00:32:44
half but he had a lot more time to
00:32:46
himself he got to teach other students
00:32:48
and residents it was his dream job and
00:32:51
he gave up the money to do that looking
00:32:54
back knowing that he died at 40 he lived
00:32:56
his life to the fullest he enjoyed every
00:32:59
moment he felt purpose in his activities
00:33:02
and as I got older and realized that I
00:33:04
was not nearly as passionate about being
00:33:05
a doctor as he was it really kind of
00:33:08
clicked that maybe I should be spending
00:33:11
my time doing some other
00:33:13
things this is a a personal and
00:33:15
unplanned question Jordan and and if you
00:33:18
don't want to answer it or or by all
00:33:20
means we can edit it out I'm just
00:33:21
curious are you are you older now than
00:33:24
your your father was when he passed I
00:33:26
assume you are yeah so I turned 52 days
00:33:29
ago and my father died when he was 40
00:33:31
well happy recent birthday to you I'm
00:33:34
just curious I mean either around the
00:33:36
time you were approaching your father's
00:33:39
age when he passed or when you passed
00:33:41
that date or that birthday or now that
00:33:43
you're older than he was did that have
00:33:46
some sort of concentrated effect on
00:33:50
these topics that we're talking about
00:33:51
today and your mentality towards them
00:33:55
interestingly enough it didn't and the
00:33:57
reason why is I've spent a lot of time
00:34:00
thinking about my own mortality one of
00:34:02
the stories I tell about my father is he
00:34:04
actually had a premonition he was going
00:34:05
to die early and he told my mom this
00:34:07
when he got married to he said you know
00:34:08
what I'm going to die young it just is
00:34:10
what it is I think it's part of the
00:34:11
reason that he actually lived life to
00:34:14
its fullest while it was happening
00:34:15
because I think he kind of knew that he
00:34:17
didn't have a long trajectory I felt
00:34:19
exactly the opposite I always thought
00:34:22
that I was going to live a longer life
00:34:25
and so I believe it or not wasn't is
00:34:27
worried about grinding it out young in
00:34:28
age cuz I figured I had a pretty long
00:34:31
trajectory so I looked at things a
00:34:33
little different so yes it's strange
00:34:37
knowing my internal feelings and saying
00:34:39
I'm 50 years old my dad died at 40
00:34:41
because I only have the picture of him
00:34:43
of a seven-year-old like my picture of
00:34:45
my father is this person who is much
00:34:47
older than me and they were very adult
00:34:49
and I was very little and so as a
00:34:51
50-year-old now to look back and come to
00:34:53
terms with the fact that I'm older than
00:34:56
he was and I've accomplished some of the
00:34:58
things he did and and so that that's
00:35:00
what's kind of the disconnect for me but
00:35:03
I kind of lived with a much different
00:35:05
feeling about mortality and so it didn't
00:35:08
affect me I think as profoundly as it
00:35:09
might have affected someone else got it
00:35:11
that that makes sense that makes sense I
00:35:13
want to Pivot back a little bit to some
00:35:15
of your experiences as a hospice doctor
00:35:18
and now my my kind of segue into this
00:35:20
question so at work for me or through my
00:35:23
blog or through the podcast even at like
00:35:25
you know the family Barbecue the friends
00:35:27
barbecues now people know kind of what I
00:35:29
do where my passions are I hear people
00:35:32
talking or people come up to me and say
00:35:33
things like I want to earn $200,000
00:35:37
that's my goal or I want to retire with
00:35:39
$3 million that's my goal you know money
00:35:42
is the goal they're measuring in terms
00:35:44
of dollars but I'm curious could you
00:35:46
share some of your experiences as a
00:35:48
hospice doctor and and maybe first just
00:35:51
in 20 seconds explain what a hospice
00:35:53
doctor does in case some of our
00:35:54
listeners aren't aren't familiar but
00:35:56
then how many many of your patients
00:35:57
share their Joy or regret of life in
00:36:01
terms of dollars by hitting monetary
00:36:04
goals right so hospice doctor is a
00:36:06
doctor who takes care of patients in the
00:36:08
last six months of their life the care
00:36:10
is not oriented to cure or fixing the
00:36:13
problem it's really oriented to making
00:36:16
people comfortable and helping them
00:36:17
prepare for this idea that they're dying
00:36:20
and so I deal with a lot of people at
00:36:23
the end of life and almost no one says I
00:36:26
wish I had hit a higher net worth almost
00:36:29
no one says I wish I worked more nights
00:36:30
and weekends when people do talk about
00:36:34
money it's usually a regret that they
00:36:37
didn't have enough just to cover some of
00:36:38
the basic things they needed or a wish
00:36:42
that they could have left more to their
00:36:44
children which is more about I wish I
00:36:45
could leave more of a legacy to my
00:36:47
children and not necessarily about money
00:36:49
itself and so usually money is not
00:36:53
something people specifically talk about
00:36:55
and if you think about it it makes sense
00:36:58
you know I've said in my book and I've
00:37:00
written about this extensively on my
00:37:01
blog you know money is really a mirage
00:37:04
we give it all sorts of characteristics
00:37:06
as if it's this big important thing and
00:37:10
that thing unto itself has meaning or
00:37:12
value but we all really kind of know
00:37:14
money is a construct it's something that
00:37:17
helps us do other things and it's those
00:37:19
other things which are important not the
00:37:21
money itself money is a tool and people
00:37:24
forget it's just one of many tools it's
00:37:26
it's a very effective tool if you have
00:37:28
lots of money it can provide space and
00:37:31
time for you to explore those other
00:37:34
things that are purposeful to you but
00:37:36
it's just one of many tools and so it's
00:37:38
really hard for a person at their
00:37:41
deathbed to look at money and that be
00:37:43
the regret because money signifies other
00:37:46
things and so the real question is what
00:37:49
does money signify in your life and how
00:37:51
can we start working to those towards
00:37:53
those other things whether you have the
00:37:55
money today or not because again A lot
00:37:57
of times we have other tools at our
00:37:59
disposal that can help us get there you
00:38:02
might not have had enough money to fire
00:38:04
the day that you realized that you'd
00:38:05
rather be doing what you're doing today
00:38:07
as opposed to being an engineer but you
00:38:09
had your knowledge your skills your
00:38:11
knowhow and your passion and those were
00:38:12
some other tools that you could use to
00:38:15
start living a more purposeful life that
00:38:18
day as opposed to waiting till you had
00:38:20
enough money to bail you out to do it
00:38:22
and so people make the mistake they
00:38:24
think oh boy we need lots of money and
00:38:26
money is going to solve all our problems
00:38:29
it solves some problems but not all and
00:38:31
a lot of people find themselves quite
00:38:33
depressed and disconcerted when they
00:38:35
actually get to their goal Financial
00:38:36
number and realize that all their life
00:38:38
problems still exist they just don't
00:38:41
have any financial problems anymore but
00:38:42
they still maybe don't know who they are
00:38:44
or what's important to them or they're
00:38:46
still chasing after this concept of
00:38:47
happiness and they haven't quite figured
00:38:49
out what that is yeah you're you're
00:38:51
exactly right I think the day I decided
00:38:53
to switch jobs and then the day I
00:38:55
eventually did switch jobs my financial
00:38:58
metrics took a hit my salary decreased
00:39:02
my eventual you know retire early date
00:39:05
if I wanted to do that got pushed out to
00:39:06
the Future just across the board the
00:39:08
financial numbers took a hit but from a
00:39:12
life enjoyment point of view or just
00:39:14
from a efficacy of my time point of view
00:39:17
what used to be this 9h hour block a day
00:39:19
of essentially negative space time that
00:39:22
I either felt was completely committed
00:39:24
to my corporate employer time that I
00:39:26
didn't feel like I owned time that I
00:39:28
really didn't enjoy got replaced with
00:39:31
you know maybe 10 hours a day at the new
00:39:33
job but where I'm enjoying what I'm
00:39:35
doing I'm getting to have conversations
00:39:37
like this one and many other
00:39:39
conversations with people that are
00:39:41
really helping them in their life and
00:39:43
therefore giving me meaning in in my
00:39:45
life more meaning so finances took a hit
00:39:49
you know you could objectively say
00:39:50
negative yet somehow overall a huge
00:39:54
positive impact on my life and that's
00:39:56
because I I need to measure change in
00:39:58
something other than just the financial
00:40:00
aspect and this is a perfect example of
00:40:03
how I think we should be thinking about
00:40:04
money so what you did is you Ed the art
00:40:07
of subtraction you took what you loathe
00:40:08
in your life and you subtracted it out
00:40:10
but then you Ed the art of addition
00:40:12
which is then taking things that were
00:40:14
joyful and purposeful and started adding
00:40:16
them into that open space that was now
00:40:20
available what was the role of money
00:40:22
well money is a tool so if you were
00:40:24
moderately successful as an engineer and
00:40:25
you had enough money to take that
00:40:27
Financial hit it definitely allowed you
00:40:30
to move to that next step but the money
00:40:33
itself didn't solve any real problems it
00:40:35
just gave you a touch of margin so that
00:40:37
you could subtract out what was bad and
00:40:39
add in what was good but you needed a
00:40:41
lot more than money you needed other
00:40:43
tools you needed something you were
00:40:44
passionate about you might have needed
00:40:46
some connections in the community to get
00:40:47
a new job or just to learn how to do the
00:40:50
things you now wanted to do you might
00:40:52
have needed energy right and passion and
00:40:55
all these other types of tools that you
00:40:57
had at your disposal money was just one
00:40:59
of them but the money really again
00:41:01
wasn't the important thing and this is
00:41:03
the mistake we make when we think that
00:41:05
net worth is what our true goal is money
00:41:08
was a tool along the way living the life
00:41:10
full of
00:41:11
purpose that's the real
00:41:14
goal totally agree and and the
00:41:16
connections part we haven't really
00:41:17
touched on the connections too much yet
00:41:20
that was a really big part of my
00:41:21
transition and it was something I think
00:41:23
I undervalued as an engineer but now I
00:41:26
see more and more every day the value of
00:41:28
connections and that can be family and
00:41:30
friendly connections on the personal
00:41:32
side it could be you know more of like a
00:41:35
business connection and or or you know
00:41:36
I'm thinking of what you and I are doing
00:41:38
here Jordan right podcasting blogging
00:41:40
the people that we've met here in this
00:41:41
personal finance content community and
00:41:44
the amazing opportunities that have come
00:41:46
out of those connections it is something
00:41:48
that depending on who I'm talking to
00:41:51
when someone's kind of explaining some
00:41:52
of their struggles in life that's now
00:41:54
one of the things that I spend a lot of
00:41:55
time think about is is this person
00:41:58
struggling at all on the connections
00:42:00
side so do you have any thoughts advice
00:42:03
regrets of the dying that you can share
00:42:05
with us when it comes to Connections in
00:42:07
life let me State something that I've
00:42:10
probably never stated in this way before
00:42:13
but nonetheless is exceedingly true
00:42:15
connections is the most part of this
00:42:17
journey and it's all the so the one you
00:42:19
should spend almost no time thinking
00:42:21
about and this is why purpose and
00:42:25
identity if you pursue them
00:42:28
avidly and find what is your purpose and
00:42:32
get in touch with your own identity the
00:42:34
connections will naturally flow without
00:42:37
you thinking much about them the goal of
00:42:40
all of this is not purpose the goal of
00:42:42
all of this is not identity the goal of
00:42:44
all this is community and connections I
00:42:46
actually believe that that's what makes
00:42:47
us feel good in life and probably leads
00:42:50
to our greatest Legacy after we're gone
00:42:52
or the people we've touched who continue
00:42:56
that's how we live on after we die
00:42:58
that's our True
00:43:00
Legacy but I think you should spend not
00:43:03
a moment worrying about that I think if
00:43:04
you develop your sense of purpose and
00:43:06
identity the connections naturally will
00:43:08
follow they certainly did with me when I
00:43:10
started being a person more in touch
00:43:13
with my own sense of identity and
00:43:15
started doing things that I was
00:43:16
purposeful about I couldn't help but
00:43:18
forming a community when I started
00:43:20
podcasting I had all these people on my
00:43:22
podcast and they became my friends and
00:43:26
they also helped and pushed me and said
00:43:28
one of my friends who I had on the
00:43:29
podcast a few times said hey you really
00:43:32
need to write a book and that was
00:43:33
actually a big portion of purpose for me
00:43:35
but I was afraid to do it before I had
00:43:37
all these worries about failing and I
00:43:40
had no idea how to really get it done
00:43:42
and how to get it professionally
00:43:43
published but because I had built a
00:43:45
community this Community member not only
00:43:48
gave me the courage to do something I
00:43:49
really wanted to do but then also had
00:43:51
the KN how because he had published a
00:43:53
book
00:43:54
before and so it's cyclical it all
00:43:56
Builds on itself so if you work on
00:43:58
purpose and identity the rest I truly
00:44:00
believe will take care of itself that's
00:44:02
the Nugget of gold that that not not
00:44:05
that the rest of this conversation
00:44:06
hasn't been
00:44:07
terrific really no it really has been
00:44:09
it's been an awesome conversation but
00:44:11
that's something that I I don't think
00:44:13
I've ever really thought about that or
00:44:15
heard it put in that way Jordan phrased
00:44:17
in that way but I can see it making
00:44:20
sense like pursue your unique identity
00:44:24
find your unique identity pursue your
00:44:27
specific passions and you'll find the
00:44:30
right Community to fall into or a
00:44:32
community will form around you or you'll
00:44:34
meet new people who have those same
00:44:35
passions and purpose as you do and and
00:44:38
that will end up being your community
00:44:40
essentially you don't have to try for it
00:44:42
is what you're saying it'll it's a
00:44:44
function it naturally flows from
00:44:46
pursuing your purpose and identity I
00:44:48
love it and it will lead and this is the
00:44:52
other part of it it will lead to a
00:44:54
greater Legacy and so let me tell
00:44:56
another story I've been telling a lot
00:44:58
lately about when I was in elementary
00:45:01
and middle school I was a pretty dorky
00:45:04
kid I didn't have a lot of friends I
00:45:06
didn't feel like I got along I always
00:45:07
felt different my dad had died all these
00:45:09
things I had a learning disability when
00:45:10
I was little I didn't feel like I fit in
00:45:12
at all but I loved baseball and I loved
00:45:16
collecting baseball
00:45:18
cards down the street from me about a
00:45:20
mile right by my middle school was an
00:45:22
antique stealer and that antique stealer
00:45:27
one day bought a bunch of antiques and
00:45:29
one of the things that was part of this
00:45:31
a lot of antiques was a bunch of
00:45:32
baseball cards he knew nothing about
00:45:34
baseball cards he was selling off the
00:45:36
Antiques in his store a snarky high
00:45:38
school kid came in and said hey how much
00:45:40
you want for those baseball cards he was
00:45:41
like 10 bucks guy said sure 10 bucks
00:45:44
gave him 10 bucks spread the cards out
00:45:46
on the counter and said this one this
00:45:48
one and this one are worth $100 total
00:45:51
and the rest of them are worth about
00:45:52
another 50 this antique stealer wasn't
00:45:55
pissed off off he was actually
00:45:57
enthralled he started buying and selling
00:45:59
baseball cards he loved it it actually
00:46:01
made his time in the antique store much
00:46:03
more enjoyable he had been finishing off
00:46:05
furniture stuff he liked but the
00:46:07
Antiques really spoke to him he was
00:46:09
living a life of purpose he actually
00:46:11
started making more money but the reason
00:46:15
why I'm bringing this up is this guy was
00:46:16
living his purpose he had figured out
00:46:18
his identity he knew what he liked but
00:46:20
he also created a space where the dorky
00:46:22
kids could come kids who didn't have
00:46:24
Community kids who needed mentorship and
00:46:28
people like me would show up and he
00:46:30
became kind of our Mentor we would open
00:46:32
up packs of baseball cards I spent
00:46:34
countless afternoons in that
00:46:37
store looking back that was the
00:46:39
beginning of building confidence that
00:46:41
was the beginning of where I learned how
00:46:43
to
00:46:44
socialize this guy had a profound impact
00:46:47
on me and I don't think he was meaning
00:46:49
to do that I think he was enthralled
00:46:51
just as much as we were in the baseball
00:46:53
cards he had started Living a life of
00:46:56
purpose he got in touch with his
00:46:58
identity but by doing that he changed a
00:47:02
generation of young kids who lived in
00:47:04
the area he actually got testicular
00:47:06
cancer and the store had to close and I
00:47:09
assume it was you know spread and who
00:47:12
knows I don't know if he lived or died I
00:47:13
hav't I I don't know but let's say God
00:47:15
forbid that he had become one of like
00:47:17
one of my hospice patients yeah after he
00:47:20
was long gone there was this generation
00:47:23
of kids who felt more confident
00:47:26
who had learned how to socialize who had
00:47:28
the positive effects of a mentor and
00:47:31
they probably eventually became
00:47:32
professionals and had kids and maybe
00:47:34
they introduced baseball cards to their
00:47:36
kids and so if we think about
00:47:39
Legacy purpose and identity lead to
00:47:41
Connections in community connections and
00:47:43
Community lead to changing the people
00:47:45
around you and those changes last long
00:47:49
after you're gone maybe for Generations
00:47:52
as generations and generations of
00:47:54
fathers and mother mothers teach their
00:47:56
kids about baseball cards and that
00:47:58
creates Community for them and changes
00:48:00
the world and so ultimately I think this
00:48:03
is how we create our biggest Legacy and
00:48:06
it has nothing and I'll say it one more
00:48:08
time it has nothing to do with
00:48:11
money a rising tide lifts All Ships I
00:48:14
mean that gentleman was a rising tide in
00:48:16
in your life Jordan and and and the the
00:48:18
community of you know young men around
00:48:20
you and you're acting as a rising tide
00:48:23
in many ways for for your listeners for
00:48:25
your readers
00:48:26
so interesting actually now with this
00:48:29
antique store owner his community was
00:48:32
very much iners and known to him and and
00:48:35
known to you it was right there in front
00:48:37
of you it was tangible your community
00:48:39
and maybe to some extent my community I
00:48:42
don't know all my readers and listeners
00:48:44
and it's very interesting that
00:48:46
especially you I think with the earn and
00:48:47
invest podcast with your book taking
00:48:49
stock you're likely having an impact in
00:48:52
some ways that you're not even fully
00:48:54
aware of it on a a day-to-day
00:48:57
basis it's funny the difference between
00:49:00
local and Global impact my theory is
00:49:03
actually if you have local impact it
00:49:05
eventually spreads so you're talking
00:49:06
about a rising wave I love the the ocean
00:49:10
metaphor but for me it's more like a
00:49:12
pebble dropped in the middle of the
00:49:13
ocean creates a displacement a ripple
00:49:16
that can carry on for huge distances and
00:49:19
so that's how I think about how we
00:49:20
impact people locally now in the world
00:49:23
we live in today that's much more
00:49:25
virtual we have the internet I can make
00:49:27
a podcast in my home isolated with just
00:49:30
talking to a few people but that can go
00:49:31
out to thousands and thousands more I
00:49:34
think we can have that same ripple
00:49:37
effect that we used to only think Could
00:49:38
Happen locally but now it has a little
00:49:41
bit more of a global impact but I don't
00:49:43
think the theory is any different yes I
00:49:47
locally create Community with people I
00:49:49
know for instance when I was collecting
00:49:51
baseball cards as a podcaster I create
00:49:54
communities of other
00:49:56
podcasters and people I have on my show
00:49:58
and people I meet through it but you're
00:50:00
also correct in the sense that there is
00:50:02
a more hidden or invisible Community to
00:50:04
me of people listening and feeling a
00:50:06
part of the podcast that I don't
00:50:08
necessarily interact with every day but
00:50:11
I don't know if that necessarily lessens
00:50:12
the impact I think if I didn't have any
00:50:15
local community if I didn't interact
00:50:18
with people and meet through people
00:50:19
through the podcast and go to
00:50:21
conferences and get to be in the same
00:50:22
room with them something would be
00:50:24
definitely less
00:50:25
but that doesn't take away from the
00:50:27
impact of those hidden communities that
00:50:29
we're forming that maybe we're not as
00:50:31
aware of I think as a content creator
00:50:33
we're in a different bucket in a sense
00:50:35
than lots of people because most people
00:50:37
aren't content creators so they do all
00:50:39
these things but usually they're impact
00:50:41
as much more local I think those of us
00:50:44
who create content sometimes have a
00:50:47
little bit farther of a reach but I
00:50:48
don't think it changes anything per se
00:50:50
no I I don't think so either I agree
00:50:52
with you and if anything I think it's an
00:50:54
important thing for you and I to remind
00:50:56
ourselves that there probably are a lot
00:50:58
of relatively silent but still impacted
00:51:02
listeners and readers out there who
00:51:04
maybe we only hear from them maybe we
00:51:06
only hear from one in 100 or one in 10
00:51:08
or one in 50 but then there's another 49
00:51:11
in 50 that are getting a great impact
00:51:14
and we're helping them out in some
00:51:15
little or big way we might not never
00:51:17
know and and that's interesting in its
00:51:19
own way yeah what I always tell people
00:51:21
is like when you try to sell something
00:51:23
on your podcast or you offer course or
00:51:25
you offer something even if you have a
00:51:27
pretty engaged audience you suspect that
00:51:31
3 to 5% of people might actually take
00:51:34
action and do something about it right
00:51:36
so if you're getting an email here or
00:51:39
there imagine that you could multiply
00:51:41
that by 20 is the true impact right so
00:51:44
every time I get an email and someone
00:51:45
says hey your book really spoke to me or
00:51:47
I love this episode you just did I kind
00:51:49
of in my mind multiply that by 20
00:51:51
because a very small number of people
00:51:53
and this is this is Insider talk for
00:51:55
Content creators as opposed to everyone
00:51:57
else but a very small percentage of
00:51:59
people
00:52:01
actually take action based on what you
00:52:04
say and let you know about it maybe they
00:52:06
take action based on what you say but
00:52:07
very few people will actually go and
00:52:08
write you an email so if you an avid
00:52:10
listener of a content creator or reader
00:52:13
of a content creator this is the message
00:52:15
to you your messages back to us mean
00:52:18
something and it's nice to hear that
00:52:21
kind of we're not just sending this
00:52:23
stuff out in The Ether because sometimes
00:52:24
it feels like it exactly right this is
00:52:27
this is our plea for you guys to send
00:52:29
Jordan a message send me a message let
00:52:31
us know that you just heard us speaking
00:52:33
and we would greatly appreciate it well
00:52:36
Jordan I mean terrific conversation I've
00:52:38
enjoyed it I know our listeners will
00:52:40
enjoy it I've mentioned a couple times
00:52:42
your podcast and your book and I want to
00:52:44
make sure that listeners know where they
00:52:45
can listen and where they can check that
00:52:47
out so where where can people find you
00:52:50
so the easiest way to find me is to go
00:52:52
to Jordan grommet.com that's J R
00:52:56
dgme.com the reason why is you can find
00:53:00
links to everywhere I create content
00:53:02
there so number one the book taking
00:53:04
stock a hospice doctor's advice on
00:53:06
financial Independence Building Wealth
00:53:08
and living a regret-free life the links
00:53:10
are there to Amazon or wherever you want
00:53:12
to buy it there's also links to my
00:53:14
medical blog called in my humble opinion
00:53:16
which I wrote from about 2004 to
00:53:19
2018 my financial blog diversify dcom
00:53:22
and the earn and invest podcast I spend
00:53:24
most of my time on earn and invest and
00:53:26
so you can find that all at Jordan
00:53:28
grommet.com
00:53:29
excellent all those links will be in the
00:53:31
show notes everybody Jordan grummet dog
00:53:34
thank you for coming on the best
00:53:35
interest podcast thank you for having me
00:53:38
I appreciate
00:53:39
[Music]
00:53:41
it thanks for tuning in to this episode
00:53:43
of the best interest podcast if you have
00:53:46
a question for Jesse to answer on a
00:53:47
future episode send him an email at
00:53:50
Jesse bestin interest. blog again that's
00:53:53
Jesse best interest. blog did you enjoy
00:53:57
the show subscribe rate and review the
00:53:59
podcast wherever you listen this helps
00:54:02
others find the show and invest in
00:54:04
knowledge themselves and we really
00:54:06
appreciate it we'll catch you on the
00:54:07
next episode of the best interest
00:54:10
[Music]
00:54:12
podcast the best interest podcast is a
00:54:15
personal podcast met for education and
00:54:17
entertainment it should not be taken as
00:54:19
Financial advice and is not prescriptive
00:54:22
of your financial
00:54:24
situation