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welcome to the best interest podcast
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where we believe Benjamin Franklin's
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advice that an investment in knowledge
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pays the best interest both in finances
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and in your life every episode teaches
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you personal finance and investing in
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simple terms now here's your host Jesse
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Kramer hello everybody and welcome to
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episode 71 of the best interest podcast
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my name is Jesse Kramer later in today's
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episode I'm going to be welcome Diana
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miam onto the podcast Diana is the
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founder of a really cool conference for
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people who are financially independent
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or seeking Financial Independence the
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conference is called economy but we'll
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talk to Diana and get into those details
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later first as always I want to do a
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little bit of a cool intro this week's
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intro is about Robert kosaki otherwise
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known as Rich Dad Poor Dad I want to
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share some thoughts on him but first we
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have to do our review of the week this
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week's review comes from kley I think
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I'm saying that right KU _ CLE kley says
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what a gem Jesse has a great approach to
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investing that he shares throughout his
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podcast his calm and measured approach
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encourages basic investing fundamentals
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that can be easy to lose in this
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fast-paced world he does a nice job
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pulling in data and examples without
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getting overly technical this is a
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podcast that the new investor can easily
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pick up and yet experienced DIY
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investors can still learn from and find
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Value in keep up with the great work
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Jesse well kley thank you for those kind
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words if you're listening to this kley
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drop me an email Jessie best bestin
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interest. blog and we'll get you hooked
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up with some cool bestest gear all right
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now Robert Kaki was in the news again
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this week and as usual the reason why is
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because he is predicting Doom and Gloom
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for the economy for the US that's one of
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his favorite things to do and one thing
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if anything that I want to share with
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you guys today is that that's Robert
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kiyosaki's calling card or at least it
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has been for the you know 25 or so years
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since he published what is a famous and
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highly regarded book called Rich Dad
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Poor Dad we're not going to talk too
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much about Rich Dad Poor Dad here today
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you can go out and read it if you want
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it does share some solid financial and
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investing principles one of the main
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ones being that you want to own incom
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producing assets stocks are an example
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of incom producing assets that s bonds I
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know kosaki and many of his followers
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really like real estate real estate is
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an incom producing asset all well and
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good and when you own incom producing
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assets which are generating income as
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the name implies you can then use that
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income to buy more of those assets hence
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compounding growth what every investor
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wants that's the gist of Rich dead poor
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dead I just saved you 4 hours you don't
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have to read it yourself if you don't
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want to unfortunately since kosaki
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published that that book his tone I'm
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not sure if it's changed I mean he might
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have always been a bit of a Salesman and
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a bit of a fear mongerer but he really
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has taken the fear-mongering to extremes
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first I want to read you guys from an
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article I wrote in July of 2022 which
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was what 16 months ago 17 months ago at
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which time kosaki was once again crying
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wolf and the title of this article is
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blo hards broken clocks and confirmation
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bias and I want to start out by
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apologizing to anybody out there named
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sky or maybe wolf or maybe you changed
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your name to dandelion or something like
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that if you took that spiritual route
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because I do in this article like I call
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out people named Sky that's a bit unfair
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of me to do but the reason why I want to
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apologize to some of those more
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spiritual folks is that I start by
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saying that astrology is a pseudo
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science and it's a pseudo science that
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prays upon the all to human
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irrationality of confirmation bias now
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we're going to break down exactly what I
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mean by that so so either astrology is a
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pseudo science a fake science or your
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life is subject to the positions of
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nearby moons slightly more distant
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planets and stars that are light years
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away doesn't quite seem plausible to me
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so like I said I apologize to you guys
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if you believe in astrology I just think
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it's really dumb and I think you're
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falling for something pretty fake if you
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do believe in astrology in fact you
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might be falling for confirmation bias
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confirmation bias occurs when people
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search for interpret favor or recall
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information in a way that confirms or
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supports your prior experience now let's
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talk about an example why am I bringing
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up astrology and confirmation bias back
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toback here's the example this is an
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actual horoscope from July 27th 2022 the
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day I wrote this article my horoscope
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I'm an Aries it said you'll have an
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opportunity to speak from the heart
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without feeling overly vulnerable today
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dear Aries as communicative Mercury
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shares a sweet connection with the
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healing asteroid Chiron meanwhile the
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moon continues its journey through
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cancer bringing a compassionate and
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sensitive energy your way use the
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momentum of this Cosmic climate to
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nurture your dearest friendships but
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don't hold back if you need to voice
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dissatisfaction in your relationships as
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long as you do so from a calm and
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diplomatic place the moon moves into Leo
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just as the witching hour near bringing
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out your inner creativity over the next
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two days okay I've got so many questions
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well first off uh I I can speak from the
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heart according to my horoscope being
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compassionate and sensitive I can
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nurture my friendships but I can also
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voice dissatisfaction as long as I am
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calm and diplomatic also I I've got 48
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Hours of creativity and then after those
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48 hours I don't know I'm not really
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sure I'm a little bit worried about what
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happens when the moon moves into Leo and
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the witching hour ends I mean what
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happens after the witching hour ends
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also I I find it interesting how a lot
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of this was predicated on the fact that
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Mercury the planet which is
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communicative I'm not sure how planets
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can be good at communication but that
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mercury is sharing a sweet connection
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with Chiron which is an asteroid and and
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not only any asteroid it's a healing
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asteroid so thankfully that to my
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compassion and sensitive energy and
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diplomatic calm and inner creativity
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only for 48 hours though okay you guys
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get what I'm going at my horoscope
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basically reads today you're a human
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being that's what it said this is just
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one Aries horoscope from that particular
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day and then according to many of the
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other Aries horoscopes out there today
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could also bring me frustration
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confusion Joy a slight head cold hunger
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laughter and just about every other
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human emotion now are they all true is
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every horoscope true for all Aries of
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course it's not but some people believe
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in horoscopes because they interpret
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that information in a way that confirms
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or supports their prior experience about
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who they are that is textbook
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confirmation bias we see little hints
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inside the horoscopes that do actually
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remind us of ourselves and then we want
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to believe that it's true and some part
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of our slightly reptilian very primate
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monkey brains says oh it must be true
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then but it's not that's confirmation
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bias horoscopes are written so generally
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that any person could reasonably twist
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the words to fit their own life and
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sometimes the confirmation will be so
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strong that even the most rational
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reader will think man is this really a
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coincidence I mean this horoscope sounds
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just like me but it is a coincidence it
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always has been and always will be a
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coincidence horoscope sces are just like
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blind squirrels finding a nut or broken
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clocks that are right two times a day so
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friend of the blog Craig he sent me an
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article back in July of 2022 and the
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headline of this article was Major crash
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to come Robert kosaki warns that a key
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economic signal is flashing bright red
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here are the three assets he likes for
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shock safety and then the article uh
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came with the following commentary from
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Craig who credit to Craig here Craig
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said
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I just want to go through and capture
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all the people calling for
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everything to implode and hold on to it
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looking back in 5 years Craig's got a
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great point blowhards and
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artists like Robert kosaki they so fear
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for a living and I know some of you
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might be saying well Robert kisaki he
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sold millions of copies of Rich Dad Poor
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Dad I get it he wrote one book it sold
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millions of copies and he's been a con
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artist ever since now if you guys spend
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any time in the kind of financial media
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space
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you might have seen this graphical
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representation before of kiyosaki's
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awful takes and I'm going to find a way
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to share this in the show notes so look
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for a link that says kiyosaki's awful
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takes and it will bring you to this plot
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and now what the plot shows for those of
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you who aren't going to be able to see
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it it shows the S&P 500 from 2009 until
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about 2022 and the S&P 500 as you might
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know pretty much goes up and to the
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right and then at eight different times
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over that 10y year 12E span it shows a
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tweet or a quote or a headline from
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Robert kosaki including 2011 the crash
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is not over he was referring to the
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great financial crisis it was over 2015
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crash coming in 2016 I've been calling
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it since
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2002 what he was calling a crash 14
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years in advance he was also wrong for
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what it's worth 2017 real estate crash
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is coming still waiting for that one
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Robert 2018 biggest crash is coming well
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that one didn't come 2020 the everything
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crash is coming everything everything
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this was after covid on the way to the
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recovery the everything crash is coming
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in 2021 the stock market crash is coming
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well maybe that time he was actually
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right because if you sold stocks in
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October of 2021 like Robert said you'd
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probably be in a pretty happy place at
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some point during 2022 especially in
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July of 2022 when I wrote this article
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if you sold before the 2022 crash you'd
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probably be happy with yourself but then
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you have to remind yourself if you sold
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your stocks in 2011 and 2015 and 2017
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and 2018 and 2020 just like Robert
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kosaki said you'd actually be pretty
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pissed right now this man is a blowhard
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he doesn't deserve credit for being
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right in late 2021 he doesn't deserve
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credit for being right once a decade
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he's a rich wolf his a fans are poor
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sheep he uses doomsday predictions to
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instill fear and then he sells SE fear
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sell to those who are fearful and then
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profit kosaki is a pessimistic horoscope
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writer today will be a rainstorm and you
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left your umbrella at home and when a
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storm actually does rain on your parade
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it'll feel like kosaki was on to
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something like he was right but we too
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quickly forget that we've had a sunny
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dry summer
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despite kosaki calling for rain every
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single day he's a blind squirrel he's a
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broken clock he's a blowhard a
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artist he's a mad profet Craig the
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reader who who sent in the cool
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infographic that inspired today's
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article and podcast Craig was right our
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only option is to preserve his bad calls
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as evidence we need to remind the
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financial astrologers and ourselves just
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how wrong they've been in the past these
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astrologers they are the boys who cried
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wolf and we're correct to not believe
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them even when they happen to get it
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right once in a while they foed that
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fate upon themselves it's either that or
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the moons of Uranus are entering the
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house of Sauron in which case we're all
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screwed or at least that's what sky told
00:12:14
me here's a quick ad and then we'll get
00:12:17
back to the show every week I send a
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quick free email to thousands of readers
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that shares three Simple Things One my
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new articles and podcasts two the best
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financial content of the week from all
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over the Internet and three a financial
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chart that explains some important
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Concept in the news that week it's a
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great primer to boost your financial
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knowhow ah but Jesse I don't want
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another email well this might not be for
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you but I do hear you which is why I
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make it very short sweet and full of
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only the essentials while 18% of people
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who sign up eventually unsubscribe and
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133% of people who are signed up haven't
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opened it in the past 3 months a
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whopping 66% of subscribers read my
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email at least once a month they're
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enjoying it and maybe you will too you
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can subscribe for free on the homepage
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at bestter interest. blog again that's a
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free no strings attached subscription at
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bestin interest.
00:13:14
blog and now I feel a little bit bad
00:13:16
because today's guest Diana Miriam is
00:13:19
awesome and I didn't necessarily want to
00:13:21
introduce this awesome guest Diana by
00:13:24
first talking about Robert kosaki that
00:13:25
wasn't my intention at all there is no
00:13:28
causal connection between the two they
00:13:30
are very much independent people and I
00:13:32
want you guys to know that it's just
00:13:33
that kosaki made headlines for himself
00:13:36
again these past couple weeks it's been
00:13:38
the Talk of the Town so to speak and I
00:13:39
just wanted to throw my two cents in
00:13:41
there and remind you all that I think
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I'm a pretty nice guy I think I'm a
00:13:45
pretty rational guy and for that reason
00:13:48
what Robert kosaki does grinds my gears
00:13:50
he's not helping people he's harming
00:13:52
people but someone who is helping people
00:13:54
is Diana Miriam and I want to talk about
00:13:57
Diana now Diana is the founder of the
00:13:59
economy conference she's also the chief
00:14:02
Economist of the conference economy is
00:14:05
the only large scale event organized
00:14:08
specifically for the financial
00:14:10
Independence retire early movement Diana
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has been featured on Business Insider
00:14:14
Market Watch Good Day Columbus CNBC
00:14:18
wlwt5 TV as well as many famous podcasts
00:14:22
including choose fi Bigger Pockets money
00:14:25
and stacking Benjamins so without
00:14:27
further Ado let's welcome Diana Miriam
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onto the best interest
00:14:32
[Music]
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podcast all right Diana thanks for being
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here on the best interest podcast I
00:14:45
thought we could start this conversation
00:14:47
on the Camino de Santiago or maybe if it
00:14:50
makes more sense we can go back a few
00:14:52
months or a few years before the Camino
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de Santiago but why exactly am I asking
00:14:57
you about this ostens Poss Spanish term
00:15:01
what exactly is the commo de Santiago
00:15:03
and how did you end up there yeah so
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it's a good question because it's very
00:15:07
relevant to my financial journey and
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finding the fire movement and kind of
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cleaning up my finances but the Camino
00:15:14
is a 500 Mile Trek across Northern Spain
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historically it's a Catholic pilgrimage
00:15:20
people actually did this in the olden
00:15:22
days for like pentant these days it's
00:15:24
kind of more a Life Adventure I guess
00:15:27
you can you can say it's people do it
00:15:29
for a lot of different reasons and I was
00:15:31
introduced by an aunt of mine who did it
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when she was in her 40s and in my young
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20s she had just kind of like mentioned
00:15:41
it it was the first time I ever heard
00:15:42
about it and she said maybe this is
00:15:44
something you would like to do this is
00:15:45
something I did it was kind of in the
00:15:47
back of my mind and then a couple years
00:15:49
later she mentioned that my uncle wanted
00:15:52
to do it for his 70th birthday and in my
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mind it's like wait my 70-year-old uncle
00:15:59
is going to walk 500 miles across the
00:16:01
country like that's insane how is he
00:16:04
going to do that I felt compelled to
00:16:06
like let me just go and support him like
00:16:08
that was my initial motivation and it
00:16:10
seemed like something that would be
00:16:12
happening like way in the future right
00:16:14
so it's just kind of again put a pin in
00:16:16
that you know that's going to be like
00:16:18
way down the line I don't know how I'm
00:16:19
going to make that work but it just
00:16:20
seems like something on your bucket list
00:16:22
right like maybe one day I'll do this
00:16:23
thing you know I'm approaching my later
00:16:25
20s I think I'm around 27 28 and I'm
00:16:29
talking to my aunt I'm like what was
00:16:30
that thing that you guys were going to
00:16:32
do the Camino and she goes oh yeah we
00:16:35
were going to do that for you know his
00:16:36
70th birthday and she starts like doing
00:16:38
some quick math and she goes oh that's
00:16:40
going to be in
00:16:41
2017 he's turning 70 and I realize I'm
00:16:44
turning I was turning 30 that same year
00:16:47
and so then I was like oh this is like
00:16:49
two three years away like I gotta get
00:16:52
Ser if I'm actually going to do this I
00:16:53
got to figure this out so I started
00:16:54
reading a ton about it you know there's
00:16:56
some documentaries and movies and stuff
00:16:58
about it so started doing a lot of
00:16:59
research and realizing that if I'm
00:17:02
actually going to do this I need to be
00:17:05
financially prepared for it because at
00:17:07
that time I was focused on my corporate
00:17:08
career I was in debt but I didn't even
00:17:11
know how much debt I was in I was just
00:17:12
like paying on credit cards you know in
00:17:14
student loans and not really paying
00:17:15
attention and so knowing that I didn't
00:17:19
think it was going to be possible to
00:17:21
take time that much time off of work
00:17:23
because I wanted to take like two months
00:17:24
off I figured I'd have to quit my job
00:17:27
and so if I'm going to quit my job like
00:17:29
I need to save some money and I need to
00:17:30
figure out my finances and that just
00:17:32
opened a whole can of worms did you end
00:17:34
up quitting the job I mean that because
00:17:36
that's a huge change to make that's a
00:17:38
huge decision to make yeah so I ended up
00:17:41
not having to quit my job I actually
00:17:44
asked for a sabatical I asked for an
00:17:46
unpaid TW Monon sabatical okay and at
00:17:50
the time I was in a sales role I had
00:17:52
like the best numbers of my career I
00:17:55
like ended the fiscal year with like
00:17:56
some really good numbers and I had been
00:17:59
on this upward trajectory of just doing
00:18:01
better and better every year so and at
00:18:03
the time I had worked for the company
00:18:04
for about five years so it wasn't like I
00:18:06
was in my first year and making this big
00:18:09
ask like I'd been with the company for a
00:18:10
while I was very valuable to them I knew
00:18:12
I had a point of Leverage and they had
00:18:14
been giving me pretty substantial raises
00:18:16
every year so what I said is instead of
00:18:18
another raise I want to have this
00:18:21
opportunity to take this sabatical and
00:18:24
so it ended up working out very nicely
00:18:26
that's awesome so then you're turning 30
00:18:30
and you go to Spain you fly into Spain
00:18:33
and I mean how how was the hike itself I
00:18:35
know it's not necessarily a financial
00:18:36
topic but maybe we actually can dive
00:18:38
into the financial planning that went
00:18:40
into the hike but 500 Miles sensibly
00:18:43
that's something that takes what a few
00:18:45
months yeah so it took me 38 days which
00:18:48
is if in comparison to like how fast
00:18:51
other people do this track 30 days is
00:18:54
kind of an average so I was a little bit
00:18:56
slow and that's cuz I got a little sick
00:18:57
towards the end and so I you know you
00:18:59
walk between 10 and 20 mil a day towards
00:19:03
the end I was really kind of on the
00:19:04
lower side of that and yeah it was an
00:19:07
incredible Adventure I mean it's
00:19:09
something that a lot of people do at
00:19:12
more of a traditional retirement age you
00:19:14
know I met a lot of people in their 60s
00:19:16
in their 70s in their 80s and I will say
00:19:20
that you know these remarkable people
00:19:21
that I met you know that were doing this
00:19:24
really hard thing you know they really
00:19:26
showed me that age is just a number and
00:19:28
I felt really grateful that I was doing
00:19:31
it at such a young age but like the
00:19:34
examples that I've had in my life of
00:19:35
people in their 70s and 80s were not
00:19:38
these like physically active people
00:19:40
doing this like incredible you know Trek
00:19:43
across a country and so I found that
00:19:46
very inspiring to really want to take
00:19:49
care of myself into age well I also feel
00:19:52
like it was my first time in my life
00:19:55
that I actually could put work down in a
00:19:57
really meaningful way because before
00:20:00
that you know I'd have I'd have like
00:20:02
three weeks of vacation per year two to
00:20:05
three weeks you know for most of my
00:20:08
career and I would never take my
00:20:11
vacation I it would kind of like at the
00:20:13
end of the year when everybody was
00:20:15
taking off for like the holidays I would
00:20:17
you know have like two weeks during that
00:20:19
time anytime I would take a vacation I
00:20:22
would always be working on vacation I
00:20:23
could never fully disconnect it felt
00:20:26
like vacation was just per
00:20:28
procastination it didn't feel like a
00:20:30
time to recharge I couldn't fully enjoy
00:20:32
it cuz I was just just a little too
00:20:34
hyper fixated on my career and work and
00:20:38
so with the Camino I had to really
00:20:41
prepare for it like I had asked probably
00:20:44
six months in advance and so I had six
00:20:47
months to like wrap up projects prepare
00:20:50
my clients prepare my team who were
00:20:52
taking over for things and it wasn't
00:20:54
even that I worked for 10 months that
00:20:57
year I P pushed 12 months of work into
00:21:00
10 months you know and that was actually
00:21:03
one of my highest performing years the
00:21:05
year that I took two months off you know
00:21:07
I felt like I need I had something to
00:21:09
prove that like this could be beneficial
00:21:11
for everyone involved but I will say
00:21:13
that like when I went over there I
00:21:15
didn't have my work phone I didn't have
00:21:16
access to my email it was an unpaid
00:21:19
leave so it was very much like I am
00:21:22
inaccessible like you cannot contact me
00:21:24
at all I thought it was going to be
00:21:26
really hard for me to disconnect it that
00:21:29
was actually very easy lot easier than I
00:21:32
thought it was going to be because I had
00:21:34
this other huge challenge in front of me
00:21:37
to focus on retirement is super
00:21:40
impactful and and what you just pointed
00:21:42
out Diana is that it can be impactful
00:21:44
even though for you at the time it was
00:21:45
just a what 38 day sabatical that act of
00:21:49
disconnecting from work or disconnecting
00:21:51
yourself from that identity of being the
00:21:53
worker of being the person who is
00:21:55
dependent on who's important who's
00:21:57
leading the sales team in numbers for
00:22:00
some people it's very easy or it ends up
00:22:02
being extremely beneficial for them to
00:22:04
break away from that identity in an
00:22:06
earlier episode of the of the best
00:22:08
interest podcast we had on Fritz Gilbert
00:22:10
of the retirement
00:22:11
Manifesto he often talks about how for
00:22:14
some people it's actually pretty hard
00:22:16
and there's a stat that he uses which is
00:22:18
28% of retirees end up facing some sort
00:22:21
of depression during retirement and one
00:22:23
of the biggest reasons why is at times
00:22:26
you know well at my job for the last 35
00:22:29
years 40 years I knew what I was going
00:22:31
to get up and do every morning I knew
00:22:33
that I was going to get Social
00:22:35
stimulation from friends and colleagues
00:22:37
I was dependent on I had a role and
00:22:40
recently at a different conference than
00:22:42
the one where we met at a conference
00:22:44
that I was at in Philadelphia I took a a
00:22:46
class on Grief and actually there is a
00:22:49
form of grieving that some people feel
00:22:50
when they are split from a previous role
00:22:53
or responsibility that they had
00:22:55
especially one that's that's lasted for
00:22:57
decades and decades now I'm going down a
00:22:59
bit of a rabbit hole there maybe we can
00:23:00
come back to some of those topics well
00:23:02
and I just to kind of comment on that I
00:23:05
think that that is a very relevant point
00:23:07
and I think that's a very real reality
00:23:09
for people who retire at any age I think
00:23:12
what allowed me to guard against that is
00:23:16
that I had a purpose like I had a very
00:23:19
specific thing that I was focused on
00:23:22
doing which was this walking 10 to 20
00:23:25
miles a day you know and it's and what I
00:23:27
I think is beneficial about it is it
00:23:30
really simplifies life you have to spend
00:23:32
a lot of time to set yourself up you
00:23:36
know administratively to you know have
00:23:38
all of your stuff on autopay and have
00:23:41
you know have all of your things taken
00:23:42
care of so that you can literally only
00:23:45
focus on like getting up in the morning
00:23:47
eating something walking finding a place
00:23:49
to sleep taking a shower washing your
00:23:51
clothes eating again going to bed and
00:23:53
then rinse and repeat the next day it's
00:23:55
a very like simple routine
00:23:58
but it creates a lot of space to do some
00:24:01
deep thinking about life that you know
00:24:03
when we are caught up in the hustle and
00:24:05
bustle of every day we may not
00:24:07
necessarily have that time and space but
00:24:10
I also think there's enough structure
00:24:12
there where maybe you don't have that
00:24:14
sense of loss or feeling lost because
00:24:17
you don't have a purpose I had a purpose
00:24:20
my purpose was to get up and walk every
00:24:21
day but I even see that now in being
00:24:24
like in the fire movement and seeing and
00:24:26
being in contact with so many people who
00:24:28
retire early and there is there can be a
00:24:32
sense of feeling a loss of of structure
00:24:35
that makes you feel a little bit more
00:24:36
secure when there's this expansiveness
00:24:39
of time I think a lot of us have this
00:24:41
illusion that we're going to be a lot
00:24:42
more self-motivated than we actually
00:24:44
know how to be because most of our Lives
00:24:47
we've had some kind of external
00:24:51
structure imposed on us you know whether
00:24:53
it's School whether it's work there's
00:24:55
something external that dick dictates
00:24:58
how we use our time and so when you get
00:25:01
kind of the keys to the castle and you
00:25:03
are fully in charge of that that you're
00:25:05
going to be able to fill that time and
00:25:07
there's so many things that you want to
00:25:09
do but I think it can be very
00:25:11
disorienting the expansiveness of it can
00:25:14
be really disorienting the expansiveness
00:25:17
and this isn't through lived experience
00:25:19
but mainly through hearing and reading
00:25:20
other people's experiences it's
00:25:22
expansive not only on a in a single day
00:25:25
where maybe you used to have three or
00:25:26
four hours of free time and now you have
00:25:29
14 or 16 hours of free time but you're
00:25:31
now doing that every single day and it's
00:25:34
it's easy for me to say yeah if you give
00:25:35
me three hours of free time I'm I'm
00:25:37
gonna go workout I'll walk the dog I'll
00:25:39
write a blog post and and next thing I
00:25:41
know my three hours of free time are are
00:25:42
filled up but now I have that much time
00:25:45
times five every single day it almost
00:25:48
makes you feel guilty or I feel a little
00:25:50
bit guilty thinking like well boy isn't
00:25:52
that the dream like of course I could
00:25:53
fill up that time with different stuff
00:25:55
but everything I read says once you're
00:25:57
in it
00:25:58
unless you really have dedicated time to
00:26:00
retire to something to have that vision
00:26:03
in mind of how you're going to spend
00:26:05
that time it can creep up on you that
00:26:07
you're maybe a little bit bored or a
00:26:09
little bit lost or you are in this giant
00:26:12
expanse and and you can't quite feel the
00:26:13
walls around you of structure and that's
00:26:15
a little off-putting it makes you feel
00:26:18
uncomfortable 100% And I think that the
00:26:22
reason why some of that is so
00:26:23
disorienting is because we have this
00:26:26
expectation that like retirement is the
00:26:28
dream that like to not work is somehow
00:26:33
the goal I think in my experience I
00:26:37
don't think that not working is the goal
00:26:39
of reaching Financial Independence I
00:26:41
think it's having full aomy over your
00:26:44
work and maybe working less and having
00:26:47
it be a little bit more self-directed
00:26:49
but I do think that being productive
00:26:53
being useful having purpose is a really
00:26:56
big part of wellbeing being and so it's
00:26:59
funny because I I see you know we're
00:27:01
both in all of the different personal
00:27:03
finance groups and forums and you know
00:27:06
we see these questions come up all the
00:27:08
time of people obsessing over their fire
00:27:10
number and how am I going to reach this
00:27:12
goal and I wonder sometimes yes like the
00:27:16
financials are obviously important we
00:27:18
want to do good financial planning we
00:27:20
want to calculate what we need to
00:27:22
calculate but at a certain point I
00:27:24
almost feel like we need to be asking
00:27:27
bigger questions not like how do I
00:27:29
reduce my expenses increase my income
00:27:32
invest the difference what is my f
00:27:34
number how am I you know are my
00:27:36
assumptions sound for these different
00:27:39
financial planning models and all of
00:27:40
that kind of stuff like that's all great
00:27:43
but I think the bigger question is what
00:27:45
do you want to do with your time who do
00:27:47
you want to spend it with and what do
00:27:48
you want to create and a lot of us think
00:27:51
like oh I'll answer those after I reach
00:27:54
my financial goals right right but I
00:27:57
just sometimes I wonder in the fire
00:27:59
movement if we're focused on the wrong
00:28:01
things because what I see and you know I
00:28:04
do these local meetups in Cincinnati
00:28:06
where we do case studies and people put
00:28:08
together their financials their income
00:28:10
their expenses their Investments you
00:28:13
know their kind of plan to reach fi and
00:28:17
we all look up at the screen of these
00:28:19
people's numbers and most of them are
00:28:21
like millionaires like they're doing
00:28:23
really really really well and all
00:28:25
they're asking is like they look up at
00:28:27
their numbers and all they feel is
00:28:29
fear and you know what I've gotten out
00:28:33
of these case studies is I think we're
00:28:36
asking our money to do a lot more
00:28:38
emotional heavy lifting than it's
00:28:40
capable of doing and we want it to like
00:28:43
answer questions that it can't answer
00:28:45
right like money is just a resource it
00:28:48
is just a tool it is up for it's up to
00:28:50
us to choose how we're going to use the
00:28:52
tool and I just see so many of us like
00:28:56
myself included thinking that like
00:28:58
reaching this magic number is going to
00:29:01
answer more questions than it actually
00:29:02
does how do we better answer some of
00:29:05
those questions then Dan I mean is it
00:29:07
going to therapy is it talking to our
00:29:10
partners more about our dreams is it
00:29:12
simply you know spending some time
00:29:14
inside our own heads and really asking
00:29:16
ourselves what we want out of life
00:29:18
because I I agree with you money and the
00:29:20
numbers themselves are a tool it can be
00:29:23
a terrific tool it can be a tool that
00:29:24
buys us a lot of freedom and flexibility
00:29:26
in life but whoever the philosopher is
00:29:29
who said you know money's a great tool
00:29:30
but a terrible master and some of those
00:29:33
stories that I read on say Reddit some
00:29:35
subreddit about financial Independence
00:29:37
and you read someone's story about they
00:29:39
were tracking their fi number from the
00:29:41
time they were 25 and and now they're 33
00:29:44
and they finally reached fire and
00:29:45
they've been retired for a year and
00:29:47
they're lost and they hate it and and
00:29:50
you kind of look at the details and you
00:29:51
realize wow for the last seven or eight
00:29:53
years money might have been a bit more
00:29:55
of a master than a tool and when they
00:29:57
saw their number going up and they
00:29:59
reached they saw fi closer and closer in
00:30:01
the windshield and they were almost
00:30:02
there really like money was this master
00:30:05
that was saying like you're doing it
00:30:06
you're doing it you're getting close
00:30:08
which made them feel good but once they
00:30:10
got to the goal and now money's no
00:30:12
longer really important because they're
00:30:14
there and they have to figure out what
00:30:16
to do next in life they have no idea
00:30:18
they're lost they have no road map
00:30:20
what's some of the work that we can do
00:30:21
earlier to make sure that we don't have
00:30:24
that unfortunate circumstance befall us
00:30:26
right I think we need to place less
00:30:30
value on hitting our F number I think we
00:30:32
need to live in a way that makes the F
00:30:35
number kind of irrelevant because like
00:30:39
what I see again in these case studies
00:30:42
is people will say when I reach my fine
00:30:44
number I'm going to make this change
00:30:47
whatever change it is and I guess what I
00:30:50
would encourage people to think about is
00:30:52
why can't you make that change now most
00:30:55
of us that are on this path already
00:30:57
already have the financial resources to
00:30:59
either work less to take on a different
00:31:03
job pursue a hobby that we think we're
00:31:05
going to be better suited to pursue once
00:31:08
we reach our five number like I think
00:31:10
the key is to not wait and to also
00:31:13
recognize like what we think we want we
00:31:16
could be wrong about it why not
00:31:18
experiment with those assumptions that
00:31:21
we have about how we want to use our
00:31:22
time now so that it's not so
00:31:24
disorienting if we're wrong about it
00:31:26
later so I'll give you an example when I
00:31:28
was Walking the Camino I spent a lot of
00:31:31
time by myself just kind of walking
00:31:33
along and I would sing a lot and I found
00:31:36
this like release in singing and so I
00:31:39
really thought what I wanted to do when
00:31:41
I got back is like I want to sing I want
00:31:43
to pursue this this is an interest that
00:31:45
like is kind of reignited for me and I I
00:31:47
had sung when I was like younger like in
00:31:49
high school and that kind of thing but I
00:31:51
just kind of lost touch with it but even
00:31:53
when I was a kid like I always imagined
00:31:54
myself like on a stage somewhere like
00:31:56
singing with with a band you know it was
00:31:58
just like something that I always
00:32:00
imagined that I could do one day and so
00:32:03
when I got back from the Camino I'm like
00:32:04
I want to pursue this thing and it just
00:32:07
so happened that down the street from my
00:32:09
house a school of rock opened up which
00:32:11
is like a franchise for kids but they
00:32:13
have an adult program and so I joined
00:32:16
and for four months I like had to sing
00:32:19
every day I had a voice coach I had band
00:32:22
practice once a week and it ended with
00:32:25
we had a performance in front of like a
00:32:26
hundred people where I sang seven songs
00:32:29
and I worked really really hard at this
00:32:32
and when it was all over like my
00:32:34
bandmates were all just like basking in
00:32:36
the glory of a great performance and
00:32:37
they're all like I can't wait to do this
00:32:39
again and all I felt was relief that it
00:32:41
was over that's not to say that I failed
00:32:44
at this thing I think I validated that
00:32:47
there was something of interest to me in
00:32:50
performance but maybe that just wasn't
00:32:52
the right outlet for it right and I was
00:32:54
able to answer this question in my mind
00:32:57
of like one day I'll do that or maybe
00:33:00
that could have been a path for me I did
00:33:02
it and I feel like I gave it my best
00:33:04
shot and I'm really glad that I did it
00:33:06
but it's something that I can put away
00:33:07
now it's not something that like I'm
00:33:09
going to be on my deathbed thinking I
00:33:11
could have been a singer right like I
00:33:13
went down that path I scratched that
00:33:15
itch I got the information that I needed
00:33:17
from it I feel like we need more of that
00:33:20
like to test those assumptions on what
00:33:22
we think we're going to be enjoying with
00:33:26
all this time that we have in retirement
00:33:28
and maybe it's like a phase like we
00:33:30
enjoy something for a little bit and
00:33:31
then we need to reinvent and try
00:33:33
something else but I think the key is to
00:33:35
not wait and that's why I've become a
00:33:38
lot more interested in this concept of
00:33:40
like slowy and coasty because it really
00:33:44
focuses on the journey to get to your F
00:33:48
number is equally as important as
00:33:52
reaching it and what's what you're going
00:33:53
to do after it and I think there are a
00:33:55
lot of like thought
00:33:57
exercises there are a few like really
00:34:00
great creators like the fioneers for
00:34:02
example I feel like they put out really
00:34:03
good content about slowy and Coast VI
00:34:06
for me it has helped me realize that
00:34:08
I've already reached some key financial
00:34:11
Milestones to give myself permission to
00:34:13
do things differently and that reaching
00:34:16
that F number is not the only Milestone
00:34:19
that where you can make a big change
00:34:22
here's a quick ad and then we'll get
00:34:24
back to the show one of the more common
00:34:26
questions I hear is Jesse what do you
00:34:28
like and use books blogs podcasts even
00:34:31
Banks and brokerage firms what are your
00:34:34
recommendations so to answer that
00:34:36
question I put together a web page you
00:34:38
can check it out at bestin interest.
00:34:41
blogrecommended
00:34:46
to check out how I'm improving my
00:34:49
financial life and so for listeners who
00:34:52
are unaware and and I I'm going to do my
00:34:54
best to provide a little definition but
00:34:56
Dian I I'm really looking on you to to
00:34:57
fill in some of the gaps I'm picturing
00:34:59
like a color by numbers if you will and
00:35:02
and I've only got like three colored
00:35:04
pencils in my brain so you've got the
00:35:06
rest of the Crayola box you're gonna
00:35:07
have to help out I mean traditional fire
00:35:10
the way it was introduced by you know Mr
00:35:11
Money Mustache and those kind of folks
00:35:13
was you're saving like 50 or 60 or 70%
00:35:16
of your income you're retiring at 28 or
00:35:19
32 or 36 years old and it's very much of
00:35:23
living this Spartan lifestyle not only
00:35:25
during the saving portion but often
00:35:27
times into retirement because you're
00:35:29
living on a very low percentage of your
00:35:32
of your income and so you're making
00:35:34
sacrifices along the way but the nice
00:35:36
part is when you reach fi at such a
00:35:38
young age you've got all this free time
00:35:40
to do whatever you want with whereas
00:35:43
slofi and coastfi and I'm not sure I
00:35:45
know the difference between the two but
00:35:47
all they do is they say maybe you
00:35:49
continue to work a little bit after your
00:35:52
initial retirement and and you maybe you
00:35:54
have some side income or maybe you're
00:35:56
just not quite saving as much you're
00:35:57
saving more than maybe the typical
00:35:59
American does and that's great so maybe
00:36:01
you're going to retire at 50 or 45
00:36:04
instead of 35 or 30 but what other
00:36:06
details am I missing about slow and
00:36:08
Coast five so I think in general like
00:36:12
the idea of fire I think of it as like a
00:36:15
spectrum of all these different flavors
00:36:17
of fi and like ways that people look
00:36:20
about it look at it and approach it so
00:36:22
like traditional fire the way that you
00:36:24
described it you're saving as much as
00:36:27
you possibly can for some people that
00:36:29
looks like 50 to 70% of their income or
00:36:31
80% whatever it is right you're you're
00:36:34
saving as much as you can to reach your
00:36:37
F number 25 times your annual expenses
00:36:40
as fast as possible that's kind of like
00:36:43
where I started out right same and so
00:36:46
yes that's kind of like one lens to look
00:36:49
at it with I think slowy is kind of
00:36:53
recognizing again that speed isn't the
00:36:56
determining factor of you're doing this
00:36:58
right and I think it also recognizes
00:37:01
that you know your life is not happening
00:37:04
after you reach your F number it's
00:37:06
happening now so how do you prioritize
00:37:08
the journey as much as the destination
00:37:10
so it's looking at it through that lens
00:37:13
and also recognizing like it's not just
00:37:16
save as much as you can possibly save
00:37:18
and live this Spartan lifestyle but how
00:37:21
do you balance spending money now so
00:37:24
that you can enjoy your life now while
00:37:25
also saving for the future right like
00:37:27
it's not an either or question it's how
00:37:30
do I do both and like what is that
00:37:32
optimal level of spending I just think
00:37:35
in general the way I think of slofi is
00:37:38
it's getting rid of the Race part of it
00:37:40
it's getting rid of the like Need for
00:37:42
Speed because you're creating a life now
00:37:46
that you don't need to retire from so
00:37:48
and then the way that I separate out
00:37:50
coasty from that is I think it's very
00:37:53
complimentary to slowfi but with coasty
00:37:56
it's a really clear Milestone just like
00:37:59
when you say you're debt-free that's a
00:38:01
milestone when you've saved your
00:38:03
emergency fund that's a milestone when
00:38:05
you have your Fu money or peace out
00:38:07
money for the polite Among Us like
00:38:09
that's a milestone you've reached like a
00:38:11
certain level of saving and investing
00:38:14
coasty is when you have enough in your
00:38:18
Investment Portfolio that it will grow
00:38:20
to what you need through the power of
00:38:23
compound interest for what you need for
00:38:25
traditional retirement age
00:38:27
if you don't even contribute One More
00:38:28
Dollar I think of it as like
00:38:30
frontloading your retirement savings and
00:38:33
letting compound interest do the rest of
00:38:35
the work and so that's like a clear
00:38:37
Milestone there are calculators online
00:38:39
that you can plug in your numbers and it
00:38:41
will tell you what is your Coast F
00:38:43
number where it's almost like you can
00:38:45
give yourself permission to take your
00:38:47
foot off the gas me shifting from this
00:38:50
more like traditional fire to this like
00:38:52
coastfi slowy lens what it's allowed me
00:38:56
to do is make big changes so I thought I
00:38:58
was going to work until 40 at like a
00:39:01
traditional corporate career and I ended
00:39:03
up retiring from my corporate career at
00:39:05
33 once I reached Coast VI status and so
00:39:09
now I am able to just meet my expenses
00:39:13
which are very low because not because
00:39:16
I'm depriving myself but just because
00:39:17
that's the nature of like my you know I
00:39:20
bought a house well below my means I'm
00:39:22
not very materialistic if it feels like
00:39:24
deprivation I would argue that you're
00:39:26
doing it wrong but I very much enjoy a
00:39:29
more like minimalist lifestyle it's easy
00:39:32
for me to meet my expenses with just
00:39:34
four hours of work a week which I do
00:39:37
through podcasting and so that's like my
00:39:39
only real source of income but then I
00:39:41
also have another business called the
00:39:42
economy conference which isn't a source
00:39:45
of income for me I think of it more of
00:39:47
like a passion business or a passion
00:39:50
project hobby business if you will but
00:39:53
it gives me something to do right it
00:39:55
gives me purpose it gives me you know it
00:39:57
gives me a reason to get on podcast and
00:39:59
talk about this stuff I think the
00:40:01
benefit to me in changing that lens of
00:40:05
how I look at fire and how I relate to
00:40:07
it it just removes the urgency to
00:40:10
continue saving and pursuing my f number
00:40:14
it's really changed the way that I
00:40:16
relate to my money in general I've kind
00:40:18
of relaxed on the tracking I've relaxed
00:40:21
on the like being hyperfocused on the
00:40:23
numbers because the reality is money
00:40:27
creates options and allows you to do
00:40:29
things and make changes what would I
00:40:31
change in my life tomorrow if I had $10
00:40:35
million I can't think of anything that I
00:40:38
would change and so that to me is is
00:40:41
like okay I've reached a a level where
00:40:44
it's all of this is almost irrelevant
00:40:47
that to me is the difference I want to
00:40:49
come back to the podcast and economy a
00:40:52
little more because I mentioned them to
00:40:53
the audience in the introduction but I I
00:40:55
want to explore more details and and
00:40:57
learn from myself and shine a spotlight
00:40:58
on the cool stuff you're doing Diana but
00:41:00
before we get there something you
00:41:02
mentioned you use the word deprivation
00:41:04
and we talked about that as when I was
00:41:07
introduced to the fire movement and I
00:41:08
think the way a lot of mainstream
00:41:11
Americans who maybe aren't paying
00:41:14
attention to the personal finance base
00:41:15
the way you and I are the way that they
00:41:17
see fire is through some of the articles
00:41:20
that they might see on CNBC or or some
00:41:23
sort of mainstream media source and that
00:41:26
story of deprivation sometimes it's
00:41:29
front and center if it's not front and
00:41:31
center it's often somewhere lurking
00:41:32
beneath the surface in inside the story
00:41:35
where they'll share details about and
00:41:37
you know Mr Johnson who retired at 32
00:41:39
eats rice and beans every day for dinner
00:41:42
and the average person out there is like
00:41:43
I certainly don't want to do that but is
00:41:45
that the only way that I'm allowed to
00:41:46
retire early and and there almost is
00:41:49
this I was trying to think of a good
00:41:50
analogy as you were speaking but there's
00:41:53
almost this like depravity competition
00:41:56
in the fire space of who can make
00:41:59
themselves suffer more in order to reach
00:42:02
retirement earlier now granted some
00:42:04
people out there say listen I like rice
00:42:06
and beans I'm not a big food person so
00:42:09
for me it's not depravity is that the
00:42:11
right word depravity I'm not holding
00:42:13
anything back for myself just by by this
00:42:16
but for a lot of people out there
00:42:17
including myself if I were to turn my
00:42:21
savings rate up another 10% I probably
00:42:25
could but I would be squeezing a lot of
00:42:28
juice out of my life that I currently
00:42:30
enjoy having in my life and that's where
00:42:32
that personal trade-off has to occur
00:42:35
where you say what's worth saving money
00:42:38
on versus what do I want to spend money
00:42:40
on now just so I can enjoy my life how
00:42:42
do I focus on the things that really
00:42:43
bring me joy today during the journey to
00:42:46
fi so that I'm enjoying today I'm
00:42:48
enjoying tomorrow and sure maybe I'll
00:42:50
retire early a little bit too sure and
00:42:53
you know it's a really personal
00:42:57
thing to decide like what is your
00:42:59
optimal level of spending again I don't
00:43:02
think it is spend the least that you
00:43:05
possibly can to survive it's spend the
00:43:08
lowest amount that allows you to not
00:43:12
feel deprived and still enjoy your life
00:43:15
like to me it's about optimization and
00:43:17
efficiency than it is about increasing
00:43:21
your savings rate as much as possible
00:43:23
and I would argue that the people that
00:43:25
are like look like they're depriving
00:43:27
themselves or making themselves
00:43:29
miserable if that's actually what
00:43:31
they're doing I would argue that they're
00:43:32
doing it wrong but the examples that we
00:43:34
see like Mr Money Mustache for example
00:43:36
you know he advocates for riding your
00:43:39
bike everywhere he really enjoys riding
00:43:42
his bike and he lives in an area where
00:43:45
it's possible for him to ride his bike
00:43:47
everywhere and when I first started he
00:43:49
makes a very compelling argument about
00:43:51
it and you know when I first started
00:43:53
reading his stuff like I was like
00:43:54
drinking the Kool-Aid I was like okay I
00:43:56
bought a bike I lived in New York City I
00:43:58
hated it I hated it you know and so it
00:44:01
was like this doesn't work for me but
00:44:04
something like eating out like I used to
00:44:06
spend a lot of money eating out and then
00:44:08
I learned how to cook and me packing my
00:44:11
lunch every day it's not a hardship and
00:44:14
the things that I'm cooking most of the
00:44:16
time it to me and not to sound like
00:44:18
arrogant but I feel like it's better
00:44:20
than what I could damn good yeah it's
00:44:22
better than what I could buy at like the
00:44:24
Corner Deli when I was work and so it
00:44:27
feels like an efficiency more than it
00:44:29
feels like a sacrifice I also think that
00:44:33
we have been conditioned since birth to
00:44:36
be consumers we have been conditioned to
00:44:39
seek out luxury and to believe that if
00:44:42
we don't have the newest iPhone we're
00:44:45
like somehow facing a hardship and I
00:44:48
think like for me I really had to kind
00:44:50
of shift my perspective around that and
00:44:53
recognize that I live in a first world
00:44:55
country I have a roof over my head I
00:44:56
have food in my fridge I have clothes on
00:44:58
my back I have running water I have a
00:45:00
comfortable bed to sleep in I am living
00:45:03
a very luxurious life in comparison to
00:45:06
like most of the people on the planet if
00:45:08
you're comparing yourself to the
00:45:11
Kardashians then yes you probably will
00:45:13
feel deprived but if you think about
00:45:15
like the World Bank reported at one
00:45:17
point that half the population is living
00:45:20
on less than $5 a day compare yourself
00:45:23
to that your lifestyle even if you are
00:45:25
eating rice and beans every day is still
00:45:27
pretty luxurious so I think it's more of
00:45:29
a perspective shift and to kind of
00:45:32
recognize where your desires are and
00:45:35
what they've been conditioned by so like
00:45:37
for example I drive like a 2010 Mazda 3
00:45:42
no one would look at my car and like be
00:45:44
like o wow but it's not that I'm making
00:45:46
a sacrifice it I I don't I could buy a
00:45:50
Tesla if I wanted to buy a Tesla I
00:45:52
actually don't want a Tesla so that's
00:45:54
the difference right it's like if you
00:45:56
shift your desires to want what you
00:45:59
already have and to like have a degree
00:46:01
of gratitude for what you already have I
00:46:03
think it curbs the desire for more I've
00:46:06
written before I I love what you said I
00:46:08
think it's a minority opinion or at
00:46:10
least it's a minority opinion that
00:46:12
people choose to vocalize of this
00:46:13
consumer society that we live within I
00:46:16
think in the fire movement everybody
00:46:17
knows it but again I think if you were
00:46:19
just to poll a 100 Americans walking on
00:46:21
the street and say you know what are
00:46:23
what are your thoughts on consumerism
00:46:24
they'd kind of look at you like what
00:46:26
what are you talking about it's
00:46:27
partially because it's the only thing
00:46:28
we've known it's that it's that story
00:46:31
about two fish swimming along in the
00:46:32
Stream and a third fish swims by them
00:46:35
and says morning boys you know how's the
00:46:37
water and then they swim along a little
00:46:39
bit further and the the two fish keep
00:46:41
going and one looks to the other one and
00:46:42
he goes what the hell is water right
00:46:44
when you're swimming in it when you're
00:46:45
swimming in consumerism sometimes it's
00:46:47
hard for you to realize that that is
00:46:49
what we're surrounded by you did make me
00:46:51
think of something there oh I know what
00:46:53
it was I was doing some Googling on the
00:46:54
side I apologize to anyone studying for
00:46:56
their sat English depravity not the same
00:47:00
as deprivation depravity is what's
00:47:02
morally corrupt or evil deprivation or
00:47:05
depriving is whether you withhold
00:47:06
something from yourself or you don't
00:47:08
have something that you need however I
00:47:09
will say that when we're talking about
00:47:11
consumerism and billionaire influencers
00:47:14
we can have both depravity and
00:47:16
deprivation in the same conversation so
00:47:18
there we go like a good podcast host I
00:47:20
found the segue there Diana I do want to
00:47:23
go back we've had an awesome
00:47:25
conversation
00:47:26
I want to hear a little bit more if you
00:47:28
can share what exactly is the economy
00:47:30
conference and then this podcast that
00:47:32
you mention on the side can you tell us
00:47:33
a little bit about that yeah so optimal
00:47:35
Finance daily I've been hosting it for
00:47:38
over three years now it's a show that's
00:47:40
been around for I want to say eight
00:47:42
years something like that so I've just
00:47:43
been the host for the last three years
00:47:45
and basically what I'm doing is I'm
00:47:46
reading you an article from a personal
00:47:48
finance blogger like you I read your
00:47:51
stuff on the show and then I offer a
00:47:53
little bit of commentary on it every
00:47:55
single day in 10 minutes or less and so
00:47:58
what I think is cool about this show is
00:48:00
that you get so many different opinions
00:48:02
about personal finance like there's a
00:48:04
lot of conflicting things even like some
00:48:07
people say you know you got to buy a
00:48:09
house and other people like don't buy a
00:48:10
house and here's why right so you kind
00:48:12
of get a lot of different opinions and
00:48:15
information about personal finance and I
00:48:18
like to say that these amazing bloggers
00:48:21
wrote These great songs and I get to
00:48:22
perform the covers you know so it's it's
00:48:25
a really narration style podcast it's
00:48:27
just me it's not like interviews or
00:48:29
anything so yeah you can subscribe to
00:48:31
that it's optimal Finance daily every
00:48:33
single day and then the economy
00:48:36
conference is really it started out with
00:48:38
me asking myself this question like what
00:48:40
would I do if I didn't have to work for
00:48:42
money and I found a big shift in my life
00:48:46
when I started to go to in-person events
00:48:48
and there's this one event in particular
00:48:51
called world domination Summit which I
00:48:53
know sounds like insane it actually does
00:48:55
doesn't exist anymore they had a is that
00:48:57
where Dr Evil got his start I know it's
00:49:00
produced by pinky in the brain and no
00:49:03
I'm kidding on that but it's Mr Money
00:49:05
Mustache actually spoke there I think in
00:49:07
2016 that's how I learned about it
00:49:09
because he blogged about it when I would
00:49:11
go to this event it's not a fire event
00:49:13
but it was all about unconventional
00:49:16
living and how do you live a remarkable
00:49:18
life in this conventional world and so
00:49:22
they would attract like thousands of
00:49:25
people starting their own business
00:49:27
creatives people just living differently
00:49:30
I found like so much energy at this
00:49:33
in-person event with you know just
00:49:36
people making me feel like my life was a
00:49:38
lot more expansive than I was feeling in
00:49:41
my my day-to-day life and I would leave
00:49:44
there just feeling like my life is so
00:49:46
full of possibility and so I really
00:49:47
wanted to create something that gave
00:49:50
people that feeling but specifically
00:49:53
about their money and so I created the
00:49:55
economy conference and what you know the
00:49:58
tagl for the event I like to say that fi
00:50:00
is better with friends I have found that
00:50:02
in my own life like there's a a huge
00:50:04
online community and I'm kind of a
00:50:06
lurker right like I'll read the stuff
00:50:08
we've mentioned like what the posts that
00:50:10
we see in the different groups and all
00:50:11
that kind of thing but I wasn't really
00:50:14
an active participant in that I don't
00:50:16
really like getting to know PE I don't
00:50:18
feel connected to people through a
00:50:19
screen right I need that face Toof face
00:50:22
interaction and I do find that the kind
00:50:24
of authentic conversations that happen
00:50:27
at events like economy don't happen
00:50:30
online because I think there's so much
00:50:32
Nuance in the way that we pursue fire
00:50:36
that it's just it's hard to capture that
00:50:38
in a post and so really what the economy
00:50:42
conference is about is community and
00:50:44
inspiration for people on the path to F
00:50:46
and I mean it's been amazing to see the
00:50:49
impact that it's having there have been
00:50:51
people who have like met their spouse at
00:50:54
economy which is like man I would want
00:50:55
to go crash your wedding like That's so
00:50:57
exciting to me to see people meet there
00:50:59
and then go travel the world together or
00:51:01
start businesses together or it's the
00:51:04
caliber of the kind of person that would
00:51:06
get on a plane and put themselves out
00:51:08
there in a room of hundreds of strangers
00:51:11
is just remarkable I like to say that
00:51:13
the people who go to economy are the
00:51:15
most creative generous most intelligent
00:51:18
people I've ever met they really are
00:51:20
yeah I think that most of us pursuing
00:51:23
fire can feel pretty isolated on this
00:51:25
path and so to meet other people doing
00:51:27
it and seeing the different ways that
00:51:29
people are pursuing fire is really
00:51:31
helpful and then we also have you know
00:51:33
mainstage speakers we have workshops we
00:51:35
have a ton of social activities so it's
00:51:37
really a long weekend it's Friday
00:51:40
through Sunday it's happening this next
00:51:42
March 15 through 17th tickets are
00:51:44
available now we're over halfway sold
00:51:46
out and it's a real party about money
00:51:49
that's awesome and it's in Cincinnati
00:51:51
correct Cincinnati and you're in
00:51:52
Cincinnati as well and so and you're
00:51:54
doing some inperson meetups just
00:51:56
throughout the year for anyone listening
00:51:57
in Greater Cincinnati right yeah and
00:52:00
those meetups I'm also encouraging if
00:52:02
you guys listen to like the choose
00:52:03
podcast which is really popular within
00:52:05
the fire movement they have all these
00:52:07
local groups like you can go on their
00:52:09
website and find a local group and go
00:52:12
and meet people in person that's kind of
00:52:14
where it starts and so yeah we do that
00:52:16
here in Cincinnati as well but economy
00:52:18
is more of a production with like
00:52:20
hundreds of people versus like a small
00:52:22
Meetup that you might do locally very
00:52:24
cool so this March everybody if you are
00:52:26
interested in learning more about the
00:52:28
financial independence movement or
00:52:30
meeting cool people already involved in
00:52:32
the movement book your flight out to
00:52:33
Cincinnati reach out to Diana get your
00:52:35
ticket to economy now we'll throw all
00:52:37
the important links in in the show notes
00:52:39
Diana but if anybody does want to learn
00:52:42
more specifically about economy maybe
00:52:44
reach out to you is there one place or
00:52:46
is there a couple places they can go to
00:52:48
to find you to connect yeah you can I
00:52:50
think the easiest way is my website you
00:52:52
can sign up for my mailing list that's
00:52:54
kind of the best way to not have to
00:52:56
fight the algorithm on social media to
00:52:58
get all the news on what's going on with
00:52:59
eony so yeah sign up for the mailing
00:53:01
list and there's a contact form right on
00:53:03
my website cool and that's economy
00:53:05
conference.com or is that a different
00:53:06
website economy conference.com and
00:53:08
economy is spelled with an me at the end
00:53:11
rather than an my fun little play on
00:53:13
words there we will make sure we get the
00:53:15
correct spelling in the show notes
00:53:16
everybody so you can check out the links
00:53:18
there di thanks so much for coming on
00:53:21
the best interest podcast well thanks so
00:53:23
much for having me thanks for tuning in
00:53:26
to this episode of the best interest
00:53:28
podcast if you have a question for Jesse
00:53:30
to answer on a future episode send him
00:53:32
an email at Jesse bestter interest. blog
00:53:36
again that's Jesse bestter interest.
00:53:39
blog did you enjoy the show subscribe
00:53:41
rate and review the podcast wherever you
00:53:44
listen this helps others find the show
00:53:46
and invest in knowledge themselves and
00:53:48
we really appreciate it we'll catch you
00:53:50
on the next episode of the best interest
00:53:54
podcast
00:53:57
the best interest podcast is a personal
00:53:59
podcast met for education and
00:54:00
entertainment it should not be taken as
00:54:03
Financial advice and is not prescriptive
00:54:05
of your financial situation
