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[Music]
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everybody's got a price hey everybody
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Jesse here from the best interest if
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you're a regular podcast listener here
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this one's going to be a little
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different every Sunday night a group of
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seven of us Financial educators are
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hopping onto Twitter spaces which is a
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new feature on Twitter that allows audio
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chat rooms each week we're going to be
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tackling a different topic drawing on
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our various experiences and knowledge
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sets we're calling this show up and to
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the right the direction of growth be it
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personal or financial we're recording
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these sessions and I'll be posting them
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here on the best interest podcast feed
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thanks all for listening we had a really
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fun chat with some really good knowledge
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and I hope you come check us out next
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Sunday night on Twitter and as always an
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investment in knowledge pays the best
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interest
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so hello everybody and welcome to up and
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to the right a weekly Twitter spaces
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where we discuss investing personal
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finance and really any idea that helps
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us better understand the world of money
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today we are going to be talking about
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Bitcoin but before we go into that let's
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take a few seconds to introduce our
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speakers and we'll start with a couple
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of main speakers today so let's go with
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Andy why don't you introduce yourself
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Andy hello everybody my name is Andy um
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I talk about investing money in crypto
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and making money online here on Twitter
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and on my YouTube
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channel thanks Andy Dave why don't you
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say hello hi uh my name is David uh
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other one knows my handle here is
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uncommon yield uh and I try to bring a
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different perspective to money trying to
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look at different ways that um you can
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leverage your money ways that uh you can
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maybe take some some asymmetric risk too
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so uh if you want to just find somebody
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that's going to tell you just invest in
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index funds and don't worry about
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anything else and pay down your debt I'm
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not your guy but if you want to look at
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things maybe a little bit differently um
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why don't you you know follow me follow
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actually follow all the guys here um and
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um yeah maybe we'll learn something
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together excellent thank you Dave and
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now I'm just going to go in order across
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the screen we got Roger why don't you
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say
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hello hi everybody I'm Roger um my
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handle here is at upshot wealth um a
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little about me I basically at age of 35
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build a million dollar net worth uh all
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working a 9et to-5 so it's possible and
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uh my focus on Twitter is really showing
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people like how they can build their net
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worth and like how to maximize things
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like 401k if you have access to them and
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just talking money
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strategies perfect thank you Roger uh
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Adam how you doing Adam I'm doing well
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so yep I'm Adam here H basically I
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started doing Twitter documenting our
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debt Journey paid off a little over 30
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or a little over 31 Grand and now just
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kind of showing on Twitter some of our
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financial moves and um some things to
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maximize your
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money excellent thank you Adam Brandon
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how you doing man hey I'm doing great um
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so yeah my name is Brandon I write a
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blog called rinky do fin
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I'm all about um you know Building
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Wealth in a simple way so if you do want
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somebody to tell you to just buy index
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funds I'm the guy um that's that's my
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stick I'm all about Building Wealth
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simply excellent thank you Brandon and
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last we're gonna pass it over to Shadow
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hey guys at Shadow Rin on Twitter uh the
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guy in a group that believes in buying
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real assets not fake ones uh such as is
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real estate uh developed a portfolio of
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over 1.2 million in The Last 5 Years and
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about 22 units so real estates uh my
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space thank you
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Shadow uh my name is Jesse at best
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interest JC I run the best interest
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which is a Blog a podcast and a
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newsletter for financial advisers who
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want to save time and get a hold of
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their clients speaking of real assets I
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am fully invested in beanie
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babies but today we're not talking about
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Beanie Babies we are talking about
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Bitcoin and uh we're going to talk pros
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and cons of Bitcoin you're going to hear
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some bull arguments you're going to hear
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some bare questions and hear the Bulls
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defend themselves and I think we are
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going to start tonight with Andy giving
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us some overview of his views on bitcoin
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why he got involved with it where he
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sees it going in the future and really
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just you know as from an expert's point
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of view the the whole Bitcoin protocol
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argument so Andy without any further Ado
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do you want to take the
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mic would be happy to and I love this uh
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early shade being thrown out thank you
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for that love it sign me up uh so I'll
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give you a quick uh like high level
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overview of Bitcoin I'll touch on just a
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couple of quick points uh that I think
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are significant um and then see wherever
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else I end up I'll try to keep it short
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and concise and then we can kind of roll
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into the rest of this so for those who
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are in the dark what is back what is
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bitcoin um Bitcoin is a decentralized
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digital currency it is the biggest one
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by uh market cap and network uh the
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network size and all that good stuff it
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was launched in January of 2009 by a
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person or a group of people um that are
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unknown uh under the pseudonym uh
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Satoshi
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Nakamoto uh it um unlike fiat currency
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um Bitcoin is created it's uh
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distributed it's traded it's stored um
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on a decentralized ledger system um
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which we call a
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blockchain um a blockchain is basically
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the way I like to think about it is when
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you have your money in a bank account at
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Chase Bank or Wells Fargo or take your
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pick
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um you put money in that account you
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have an account number and they have
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basically a spreadsheet and they have
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your name and next to it they have how
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much you have uh in your account when
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you take money out they change that they
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are the central Authority on telling you
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how much money you have in your account
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uh they hold the keys to that well
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Bitcoin in much the same way there is a
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spreadsheet a ledger and it is a public
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one and so you have your account you
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have your Bitcoin address that has your
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Bitcoin on it and the world knows how
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much you have um and more so the World
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At Large who are on the network um are
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the ones who maintain that so when you
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send Bitcoin to somebody else or receive
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it uh that transaction is broadcast
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across the entire network across the
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globe and if all the people on the
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network all the miners the nodes the
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people using it um recognize that as a
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legitimate transaction then they record
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that for all the world to see on the
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public Ledger that you have either more
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or less Bitcoin than when you started
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and that is one of the beauties of of
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Bitcoin um it is completely
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decentralized and I believe largely uh
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uncontrollable um another beautiful
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feature of Bitcoin uh built into the
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code is that it is a zero terminal
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velocity inflation rate currency meaning
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the US government prints money they make
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new money uh every year they decide on
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how much that's going to be you know
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there seems to be no Rhyme or reason to
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how that works sometimes uh and Bitcoin
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is not like that at all Bitcoin is uh uh
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programmatic money it's a programmatic
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currency meaning it has uh zero terminal
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velocity on that inflation rate it is
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known um the inflation rate for the next
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100 years is mapped out with mathematics
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and the code um and it is defined by the
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uh the network at large protecting that
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uh by mathematical uh equations uh so it
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is very easy to predict how much going
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to be and all that good stuff and so on
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that note uh there are currently about
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uh 18 a little over 18 million Bitcoin
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in circulation with a maximum capacity
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on the entire uh network of 21 million
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Bitcoin to ever exist um and I think
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that these numbers are some of the most
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significant because um when you have a
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finite uh asset like this uh there is
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and there if there is demand for it well
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then there's only so much to go around
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for example there are currently uh 46
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something million 46 million
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millionaires in the world and there will
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only ever be 21 million
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Bitcoin um there is if you take all the
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people on the globe and you take the
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amount of Bitcoin that there will ever
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be and you spread it out across uh the
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globe there can only uh everyone can uh
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1% of all the world's population can
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only own like 0.21 Bitcoin or something
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like that uh it's a crazy small amount
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of currency uh of asset for how many
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people there are on the planet which is
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one of the biggest reasons why I'm so
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bullish on it um but also because it
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solves so many problems with our current
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uh currencies current savings vehicles
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um it's uh in my opinion very reliable
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has a massive amount of network effect
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behind it has an incredible amount um
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maybe even arguably the most amount of
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computational uh Power on the Planet
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behind it um and uh that all that rolled
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into the momentum that it's been gaining
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this during this bull cycle with uh uh
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institutional interest uh retail
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interest um coverage uh across the uh
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the Spectrum uh I think there is a lot
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of massive massive upside with very
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minimal uh downside uh to it which is
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why I tell everybody that if you are
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serious about investing you're serious
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about growing your money and you do not
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have a little bit even 1% exposure to
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bitcoin you are crazy so there you go
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that is the uh basic overview I'm sure I
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missed a lot of stuff but that is uh
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what I'll cover for the
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opening thank you Andy sorry I struggle
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over here I'm still on a iPhone that's
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like 10 years old so sometimes I can't
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turn my microphone back on thank you for
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that overview though Andy that very
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comprehensive uh to the people in the
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crowd if you have questions throughout
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feel free to DM me bestore JC and we are
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going to hear some questions from our
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panel some bearish questions directed
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towards Andy but I think before we get
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to those I did want to hand the
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microphone over to uncommon yield Dave I
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mean do you have anything Dave that you
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want to add because I know you're you're
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fairly bullish on bitcoin do you want to
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add anything to to Andy's argument
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Andy's uh statements no I mean I think
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Andy really gave a a really
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comprehensive uh overview that was
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really well said just to just to dive a
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little bit more into though um where
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Bitcoin is going and who's buying
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Bitcoin right now I mean we even see a
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really old
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conservative insurance companies Mass
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Mutual they they bought a hundred
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million doll worth of bitcoin back in
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the fall you know that and now for them
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that's probably less than 1% of their
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portfolio but I think you need to ask
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yourself if Mass Mutual who's a really
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conservative insurance company if they
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are dipping their tone to
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bitcoin why you know like why why why
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would a company like that do that when
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60% of their portfolios in bonds and
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other super safe Investments like what's
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the what's the reason for it and I I
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think it's because of what Andy said
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there is a limited Supply and those that
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hold some Bitcoin it it might be a
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really big deal
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um so that would be the one thing I
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would thanks Dave yeah that that that
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does make sense that does make sense and
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uh before I I don't want to give away my
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two cents too quickly but Brandon I
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think I'm gonna hand the mic over to you
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because I know you had some questions
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for these guys some bearish questions do
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you want to ask away yeah so my first
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thought would be you
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know I think so when when I to to give
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some background I was really really
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bullish on bitcoin you know four years
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ago I was investing heavily in it and
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what sort of change my mind was that I
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reached a place where I was like well
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let's think about this as a currency
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number one deflationary currencies are
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not
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necessarily the best thing because if if
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everybody thinks that what they have is
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going to be worth more tomorrow why are
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they going to
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spend that asset you know why are they
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going to buy things and and buying
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things is what really drives the economy
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right like you know people buying cars
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people buying goods and services so a
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deflationary asset I don't think I think
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that aspect of it you know from the from
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the standpoint of Bitcoin being a
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replacement for currency I think that's
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a bit overrated and people kind of see
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that and you know immediately assume
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it's a good thing I think there are
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issues with that now I know people
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conversely will say okay well Bitcoin is
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actually
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a store of value it's a replacement for
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gold and there just seems to be a
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disconnect as to what exactly people are
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expecting you know is it going to
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replace the US dollar or is it digital
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gold because I don't I don't think it's
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a viable replacement for the US dollar
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at
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all any thoughts there from the Bulls
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yeah so I can touch on a little bit of
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that um so the I mean there's there's a
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couple of of thoughts and U kind of
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beliefs behind where Bitcoin is going
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and I think uh it is not a um a kind of
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singular Viewpoint um so Bitcoin at its
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core the base layer of Bitcoin I think
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there is a lot to be set and a lot of
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argument there that can go into about
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how that um can definitely be a a
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digital gold a gold replacement it
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basically in my opinion uh solves all
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the problems of gold uh improves upon
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them uh with the one with the one
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downside of it's not shiny and you can't
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use it um in electronics but everything
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else I think it uh Far and Away exceeds
00:15:07
where gold fails uh but then on top of
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that uh what is currently still I mean
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this is all very early in development
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the big scheme of things I mean that the
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internet uh was you know in invented and
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first uh started in the in the 70s or
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late 60s um and you know we're just now
00:15:24
where we are with it so a 12-year-old
00:15:26
currency where Bitcoin currently is
00:15:28
still very early
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um but even earlier than Bitcoin um in
00:15:31
development is uh layer two technologies
00:15:35
like lightning for example which that
00:15:37
would be more so an appropriate layer an
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approp appropriate technology stack for
00:15:42
um day-to-day currency um for use in
00:15:45
that uh so I think there's different
00:15:47
different use cases for Bitcoin um and a
00:15:49
lot of this uh comes down to it needs uh
00:15:52
to get even more momentum to grow in
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size uh nobody is going to want to spend
00:15:56
their Bitcoin on coffee when um you know
00:15:59
it's 30,000 one day and it's uh 60 the
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next and it's 40 uh the week after that
00:16:05
uh but at some point uh through these
00:16:07
Cycles there is going to be in my
00:16:09
opinion there's going to be stability um
00:16:11
is going to reach some kind of um
00:16:14
critical mass it's going to reach some
00:16:17
level of mass adoption um my view it's
00:16:19
probably be going to become the um uh
00:16:23
the premier if if not one of the Premier
00:16:25
uh World Reserve currencies um and uh
00:16:29
and then on top of that there's going to
00:16:30
be all these layers where people don't
00:16:31
even know that they're necessarily using
00:16:34
uh Bitcoin for uh the transactions you
00:16:37
know uh it's just going to be the back
00:16:38
end of all that good stuff um and so you
00:16:40
know at that point spending it it'll be
00:16:43
just like spending just about anything
00:16:44
else um and a lot of it will be
00:16:46
invisible um but yeah so anyway that's a
00:16:50
lot a lot of thoughts I'll maybe David
00:16:51
has a few few as well yeah I think the
00:16:54
one point you brand you brought up at
00:16:55
being a deflationary currency and that's
00:16:57
not a good thing well I mean I think we
00:16:59
have to go back in history when we
00:17:00
didn't have fiat currency and what did
00:17:03
that look like did people not lend or
00:17:04
borrow then you know I think so this is
00:17:07
where like my my Austrian view of
00:17:10
Economics comes out when you have really
00:17:11
cheap money what happens is people take
00:17:14
really outsid risks when people take
00:17:16
really outsid risks you get stuff like
00:17:18
the 2008 financial crisis right
00:17:22
so when you have a currency that is hard
00:17:25
money that you can't inflate you can't
00:17:27
dis print more when you lend you lend in
00:17:30
a way that makes sense and where you
00:17:32
don't take outside risk as a creditor so
00:17:36
that would be my response I mean I we
00:17:38
had people that lent money and did all
00:17:41
kinds of you know normal Financial
00:17:43
transactions in the economy before that
00:17:46
I Fiat money can definitely supercharge
00:17:49
an economy but it can also supercharge
00:17:51
it to the downside too so I think that
00:17:53
would be my my comment
00:17:56
is I I I don't think that necessarily
00:17:58
makes it economically
00:18:01
unviable I follow I follow what you're
00:18:03
saying and a couple points that Andy
00:18:06
touched on I do want to come back to
00:18:07
them the two points are mass adoption
00:18:11
and then also the possibility in the
00:18:14
future of having a system in place where
00:18:16
people are unaware that they're spending
00:18:19
Bitcoin because some sort of interface
00:18:22
that they're using in front of them
00:18:24
basically puts Bitcoin in the background
00:18:26
and I I kind of relate that to the
00:18:27
current cred crit card system so I want
00:18:29
to come back to those two ideas but we
00:18:32
did have I believe a request for the
00:18:34
microphone come in from bunk Freeman so
00:18:38
I think Roger's gonna hand the mic to
00:18:39
Bunk Freeman bunk just so you know we're
00:18:42
quick to cut people off if they go down
00:18:44
rabbit holes so feel free to ask your
00:18:46
question and other folks feel free to
00:18:48
request the mic feel free to DM
00:18:50
questions if you have them bunk I think
00:18:52
you're going to be set up with the mic
00:18:53
here in a couple
00:18:57
seconds I don't know if he left actually
00:19:01
he might have just left right
00:19:03
before well you know what I think he
00:19:05
lives up to his name that is a bunch of
00:19:07
bunk that's that's
00:19:10
fair um well let me ask you one question
00:19:14
Andy because you you did bring up the
00:19:16
idea of man wait wait he's Jesse before
00:19:18
we go he's back and he's uh he's got
00:19:20
speaker privileges
00:19:22
oh Mike sorry about that guys jumped
00:19:26
out um yeah Brandon um wanted to respond
00:19:31
to um your comment about um deflationary
00:19:35
currency um I
00:19:37
think uncommon yield hit on it well um
00:19:41
but at the end of the day fiat currency
00:19:43
is a relatively new phenomenon this is
00:19:45
something that didn't go into full
00:19:46
effect since
00:19:48
1971 uh and if we look back through
00:19:50
history if we look at the gold standard
00:19:52
the Bell aox so to speak from 1871 to
00:19:55
1913 that was a most deflationary
00:19:58
environment ever and more zero to one
00:20:01
Creations happen during that time than
00:20:02
any other and the reason and you got to
00:20:04
ask yourself why that is the why that is
00:20:07
is because people have a lower time
00:20:08
preference it's not a growth at all cost
00:20:11
system and people are able to actually
00:20:13
create and to
00:20:15
innovate um under a deflationary mindset
00:20:18
under a deflationary environment we we
00:20:21
will be in a world
00:20:23
where you're not on the hamster
00:20:25
wheel where you're not bound to the 9et
00:20:29
to-5 where humans can actually Tinker um
00:20:33
and if you look back in the history of
00:20:34
the world the greatest art the greatest
00:20:36
inventions the greatest music they all
00:20:39
came in a deflationary environment and
00:20:41
the why for that is because people had a
00:20:43
low time Preference they didn't have to
00:20:45
worry about their money devaluing and I
00:20:48
think that's something that needs to be
00:20:49
taken into account um and we also got to
00:20:51
remember kingian economics is new this
00:20:54
started
00:20:55
literally 1971
00:20:58
and we're on a path right now we're
00:21:01
we're seeing Global it could be Global
00:21:03
disaster so just my two cents hey hey
00:21:07
bunk real quick question you mentioned
00:21:08
something in there you said a zero to
00:21:10
one growth something what was that you
00:21:13
mentioned so Peter theel often talks
00:21:16
about zero to one and one to many gotcha
00:21:19
okay okay the zero to one invention is
00:21:21
the thing that occurs that spawns the
00:21:24
one to many zero to one is exponentially
00:21:27
hard
00:21:29
harder than one to many and if you look
00:21:32
back for instance the period of 1871 to
00:21:34
1913 there were more zero to one
00:21:36
inventions than at any time in history
00:21:39
and that was during the deflationary
00:21:41
period excellent thank you Mike and so
00:21:44
that's Peter teal founder of PayPal
00:21:46
along with Elon Musk writer of the book
00:21:48
zero to one if you want to read more
00:21:51
about Peter teal
00:21:53
right thank you for that Mike appreciate
00:21:56
that uh appreciate that Insight that was
00:21:59
very wise very
00:22:00
wise um any anybody any of our speakers
00:22:03
have any any thoughts back at Mike
00:22:05
before we go on to another
00:22:08
question sure I'll put in my two cents I
00:22:11
thinking about Bitcoin as a currency I
00:22:13
guess my biggest issue with Bitcoin is
00:22:15
not saying that I don't believe in it I
00:22:17
have some belief that it could be the
00:22:19
future I think my difficulty and kind of
00:22:22
goes with kind of what Brandon's
00:22:24
thinking with regards to currency I
00:22:25
think for right now I think the
00:22:27
difficulty of even seeing
00:22:28
as a currency is it's volatility it's so
00:22:32
volatile and when you look at currency
00:22:34
in general I mean going from one day to
00:22:38
the next and something's dropped your
00:22:40
currency is going down 10% is at least
00:22:43
not something we would expect for
00:22:44
example from let's say the dollar right
00:22:47
um so I I think that's the difficulty I
00:22:49
have with regards to looking at it as a
00:22:51
currency today as a store of value kind
00:22:53
of makes more sense because you're kind
00:22:55
of hoping that it does go up in the
00:22:57
future but we're also you know in in uh
00:23:01
I think like Andy says we are in an
00:23:03
early you know bitcoin's in its very
00:23:05
early stages even today so where that
00:23:07
goes in the future is you know time will
00:23:09
tell but those are kind of my two cents
00:23:11
on
00:23:13
it yeah and uh the whole price
00:23:16
volatility thing I know that that that
00:23:18
is a stumbling block for a lot of people
00:23:20
but I honestly believe um I think
00:23:23
volatility is good at this stage I think
00:23:24
you need volatility for Price Discovery
00:23:27
I think there is a whole lot of price
00:23:29
Discovery still to happen with Bitcoin
00:23:31
uh I think uh that if there is any
00:23:33
long-term conviction that you have about
00:23:35
it um then uh that is something that's
00:23:37
just going to have to be written out um
00:23:40
until uh it figures out uh where uh it
00:23:43
it exists in the marketplace which I
00:23:45
think is many many times more um market
00:23:48
cap than it currently uh covers and so
00:23:51
gu that comes down to the part where and
00:23:54
which you you know Roger you've already
00:23:55
you've already said that you know you do
00:23:56
you are a bit of a believer enough that
00:23:58
you aren't unexposed to it but uh it's
00:24:01
just uh being exposed to that volatility
00:24:03
now um you have all that upside or it
00:24:06
can be you know you can wait until a lot
00:24:08
of that has subsided till things
00:24:10
stabilized till it has um reached those
00:24:12
kind of um areas that it needs to reach
00:24:15
uh to to achieve that uh but then
00:24:17
there's limited upside there um and
00:24:18
that's when I do believe that once we
00:24:20
get through those periods that's when it
00:24:21
becomes more of a store of value whereas
00:24:24
I don't currently believe it's there yet
00:24:26
I believe it's going to be a future one
00:24:27
but is not currently one Beyond being a
00:24:30
great investment
00:24:33
vehicle that's a good answer that's a
00:24:35
good answer go ahead go ahead Brandon
00:24:37
yeah one question to sort of build on
00:24:39
what on the direction we're going um so
00:24:42
for disclosure my if I had to sum up my
00:24:44
view I would say that in terms of
00:24:47
cryptocurrencies as a whole were were
00:24:49
similar to know the internet in the 90s
00:24:53
where there are a ton of companies and
00:24:55
some will be huge in 20 years
00:24:58
and some you won't even remember so my
00:25:00
question and I'd be interested to hear
00:25:02
what the Bulls have to say is you know
00:25:04
why Bitcoin um because I I am more
00:25:09
bullish on other cryptocurrencies like
00:25:12
ethereum but I'm not completely sure why
00:25:16
Bitcoin has to be you know the big
00:25:21
one I mean uh my my answer to this is
00:25:24
always uh number one network effect uh
00:25:27
no other currency has the network effect
00:25:29
and momentum that Bitcoin does uh and
00:25:32
then if I couple that with the um
00:25:35
reality that it was in my opinion very
00:25:38
fairly launched um which is a next to
00:25:40
Impossible thing to do now that the kind
00:25:42
of U the genie is out of the bottle uh
00:25:45
more or less uh a lot of people talk
00:25:47
about you know in the 90s or you know
00:25:49
late 2000 in the 2000s and stuff thing
00:25:51
you know companies like AOL these were
00:25:53
big shining stars coming out of the dot
00:25:56
and internet um uh initial age right and
00:26:00
they've lost all their luster since then
00:26:02
but I think this uh the the argument of
00:26:04
relating this to sum of that period is
00:26:07
it's inaccurate because these are all
00:26:09
companies started by people um a lot of
00:26:12
time publicly traded um and this is not
00:26:15
an analog for Bitcoin at all Bitcoin was
00:26:17
an anonymously uh created um no one
00:26:20
knows who started it it was launched
00:26:22
into the world in the most fair fair way
00:26:24
possible um at the time and it has since
00:26:27
had organ IC uh growth adoption and
00:26:30
development um since then and based on
00:26:32
all those factors that's why I believe
00:26:34
it's going to win out I think it has the
00:26:35
the greatest Head Start I think it has
00:26:37
some of the greatest technology um and I
00:26:39
think any shortcomings that can be
00:26:41
solved by other currencies uh can also
00:26:44
be solved uh with with Bitcoin in um
00:26:47
interesting uh ways without being overly
00:26:49
complicated uh without being um uh
00:26:53
muddled down by uh people who are known
00:26:55
and able to control it
00:26:59
just to to piggy continue to pigy back
00:27:01
up what Andy said I you know it's so big
00:27:04
I mean it's just so much bigger than
00:27:06
everything else in the space I mean
00:27:07
Bitcoin dominance is if usually it's
00:27:10
over 50% I think it's a little bit under
00:27:12
that right now you know somebody correct
00:27:15
me if I'm wrong but it it's so much
00:27:17
bigger than the entire crypto space in
00:27:20
general um you see companies publicly
00:27:23
traded companies and like other
00:27:25
companies like I mentioned Mass Mutual
00:27:26
like put it on their balance sheet
00:27:28
actually invest in it I like I'm really
00:27:30
bullish on ethereum too but I don't
00:27:33
think we're going to see any companies
00:27:35
put ethereum on their balance sheet
00:27:37
anytime soon just because there's not
00:27:39
that guarantee of limited Supply you
00:27:42
know I think EIP 1559 I know somebody
00:27:45
Stephen would probably bring that up I
00:27:47
know he's listening um where that could
00:27:49
be a big deflationary impact on etherum
00:27:51
but you know the ethereum foundation has
00:27:53
said like in the past that they're going
00:27:55
to do whatever they need to do to secure
00:27:56
the network and if that means inflating
00:27:57
it they're going to inflate it so and
00:28:01
two there's no there's no since there's
00:28:02
no Central group I mean who Who Who Are
00:28:05
You Gonna Who you gonna go extort for
00:28:08
Bitcoin you know there's nobody right
00:28:11
it's the whole network you can go extort
00:28:14
the ethereum network you can go extort
00:28:16
the chain link Foundation you know there
00:28:18
are places you can go for other
00:28:20
cryptocurrencies that's not the fact
00:28:21
here it's really it's it's actually is
00:28:24
decentralized it is a decentralized
00:28:26
finance compared a lot of the other
00:28:28
things that are out there so I that's
00:28:30
where I think that's that's the main
00:28:32
difference for me from an investment
00:28:36
thesis and to jump on that uh with one
00:28:38
more thought um the you know talking
00:28:40
about you know next next competitors
00:28:43
well obviously you know ethereum is uh
00:28:46
next on that list when you go to you
00:28:47
know coin market cap or something like
00:28:49
that it's it's the next biggest um but
00:28:52
the fundamentals are completely
00:28:53
different uh you know uhit uh Bitcoin
00:28:56
has a set uh cap of 21 million ethereum
00:28:59
has no cap it's unlimited um and you
00:29:03
know there there are dynamics in in that
00:29:05
with it uh changing currently uh moving
00:29:07
to you know proof of stake whenever that
00:29:10
finally happens U But ultimately uh just
00:29:13
the core level with many of these uh the
00:29:16
uh the fundamentals the the basics of
00:29:18
the uh that are engineered into it are
00:29:21
fundamentally different um and I believe
00:29:23
that Bitcoin has some of the strongest
00:29:25
uh fundamentals amongst all the other
00:29:27
reasons I mentioned uh for um becoming
00:29:30
th those things in the future like a
00:29:32
world Reserve currency for
00:29:35
example I follow you guys I do follow
00:29:37
you guys I have a I have a bare question
00:29:39
in a little bit um but we do have some
00:29:41
good questions from the crowd Financial
00:29:44
Freedom page I've got your question up
00:29:46
on Deck but before we get to that I
00:29:48
think we wanted to hand the microphone
00:29:50
over to Stephen uh at my wealth money
00:29:53
who not only asked us a bunch of
00:29:55
questions uh in text beforehand and but
00:29:58
Stephen when we give you the microphone
00:30:00
here feel free to verbalize how you
00:30:02
doing Stephen let let us know what are
00:30:03
your questions
00:30:06
man hey guys how you doing can you hear
00:30:09
me hey yeah yep we can we can awesome
00:30:12
feel like I'm saying hi to you guys for
00:30:13
the first time but I've
00:30:15
been uh tweeting and conversing with you
00:30:17
guys so much over the last couple of
00:30:18
weeks and stuff has been great so and
00:30:20
just really appreciate the channel you
00:30:22
guys got going here and uh wish you all
00:30:25
the best of luck with it and I hope it
00:30:26
grows and loads um so
00:30:30
just I think my first question I have is
00:30:33
uh is for Andy there uh just your your
00:30:37
take on the next five years where you
00:30:39
see it
00:30:40
going um I'm not looking for a for a
00:30:43
price prediction it's
00:30:46
it's I would kind of almost think like a
00:30:48
Fool's game trying to predict where this
00:30:49
thing's going to go in five years but
00:30:51
just kind of a a bull case for you where
00:30:53
you think it could go in the next five
00:30:55
years and then also on top of that
00:30:58
what those biggest risks would be uh
00:31:02
that could happen um and would any of
00:31:06
those make you want to uh stump your
00:31:09
Holdings that you
00:31:13
have Hey Stephen good to finally uh chat
00:31:16
with you uh so um predictions I mean I
00:31:21
think we I I I I tweeted today uh
00:31:24
talking about this cycle I don't think
00:31:25
this cycle is over um I think this cycle
00:31:28
this bull cycle still has some time to
00:31:29
play out um I think uh honestly what
00:31:33
we're going to see over the next five to
00:31:34
10 years is uh just more and more of
00:31:37
what we have already seen um and what
00:31:39
we've seen a lot of this year which is
00:31:41
the uh institutional adoption I think
00:31:44
there's going to I think especially um
00:31:47
and I know you asked a question about
00:31:48
him I think what Michael sailor did with
00:31:51
his company micro strategy I think
00:31:53
that's another one of those kind of
00:31:55
watershed moments uh with uh with
00:31:58
Bitcoin I think that is we're going to
00:32:00
see more and more uh companies uh
00:32:03
institutions um funds where it becomes
00:32:07
uh crazy to not have it on the balance
00:32:09
sheet in some uh in some regard I
00:32:11
personally think he's I know you asked
00:32:13
about him I I personally think that
00:32:14
Michael sailor is uh is a bit of a
00:32:17
genius in that he you know was able to
00:32:21
kind of see what he saw and make the bet
00:32:22
he did um I also think it's incredibly
00:32:24
unique the situation he is in where he
00:32:26
uh has so much control over his company
00:32:28
is able to do such a big bet I mean
00:32:31
honestly I was surprised to see
00:32:32
something like that so early um but I
00:32:34
think that that's see a lot more of that
00:32:37
and that's going to spiral into price
00:32:38
action and all kinds of interesting
00:32:40
developments with it um as far as as far
00:32:43
as price goes uh um I think it is crazy
00:32:46
as well to make any big price
00:32:47
predictions but I think the cycle if we
00:32:49
uh it would be insane to me if we didn't
00:32:52
see the six figure Mark uh finally
00:32:54
happen and as far as risks go um I think
00:32:57
one of the biggest risks right now uh
00:32:59
with um uh affecting price and things
00:33:02
like that and and general uh adoption
00:33:04
and general uh sentiment about Bitcoin
00:33:07
is uh all the ESG uh stuff I mean uh and
00:33:11
I don't think I don't think a lot of
00:33:12
it's founded um the energy usage uh how
00:33:15
its um effects on the environment things
00:33:17
like that I think a lot of it is
00:33:18
unfounded um but uh I think that the
00:33:22
perception of that of the general public
00:33:24
and big figures like Elon Musk who I
00:33:27
personally believe aren't necessarily
00:33:28
trying to you know do harm to bitcoin by
00:33:31
saying the things that they say online
00:33:33
but are just kind of publicly learning
00:33:35
as they go it's all this is all new to a
00:33:37
lot of people um and even if these
00:33:38
people are super smart they're still
00:33:40
figuring things out kind of in real time
00:33:42
like the rest of us um so I think that
00:33:45
uh perspective of uh you know it's bad
00:33:47
for the environment these things having
00:33:49
adoption based on that um which I
00:33:51
believe again a lot of is unfounded I
00:33:53
can go into more detail about that but
00:33:55
uh that is definitely you know the new
00:33:57
Cycles love that stuff it's it's an easy
00:33:58
way to keep U price down and keep people
00:34:01
scared about it or thinking about it or
00:34:02
thinking it's a bad thing uh when all
00:34:04
the upside and all the benefits to
00:34:06
society and the world um not just
00:34:08
financially but just for well-being uh
00:34:11
are are kind of monumental um so any
00:34:14
that's a few thoughts if David has
00:34:16
any I would say my my biggest concern is
00:34:18
just regulatory risk um so you saw what
00:34:21
happened in China um if anybody's not
00:34:23
aware you know they they they they put a
00:34:26
pretty heav Crackdown on the the miners
00:34:28
in China the Bitcoin Miners and um they
00:34:31
took a lot of them out so you know if
00:34:33
the United States is the biggest Bitcoin
00:34:34
Market uh in the world if the United
00:34:37
States government for for whatever
00:34:39
reason decided to make Bitcoin illegal
00:34:42
uh we would see uh major um a major
00:34:45
downturn in the price I mean I'm I'm
00:34:46
fairly confident you know what what I
00:34:48
continue to hold till then you that that
00:34:50
would be a really difficult question you
00:34:51
know I from a legal standpoint would I
00:34:54
want to do something
00:34:55
legal my my preference would be no so um
00:35:00
so I don't know but I think regulatory
00:35:01
risk is is um extremely high I think
00:35:04
it's uh becomes less and less as more
00:35:07
people and government and or and more
00:35:09
organizations put on the balance sheet
00:35:11
and it becomes more part of the economy
00:35:13
um but we're a little bit at a at a
00:35:15
Tipping Point where I think if a
00:35:17
government wanted to take a hard run it
00:35:18
really um trying to to to put the hammer
00:35:22
down on it they they
00:35:25
could one thing I was going to add is
00:35:27
that like not even about making it
00:35:29
illegal but like for example I could
00:35:31
totally see them for example like taxing
00:35:33
the hell out of it right in order to
00:35:36
almost discourage it more than make it
00:35:39
illegal is kind of what I could see
00:35:41
happen yeah as far as yeah I think I
00:35:44
think there there's a lot of Merit to
00:35:46
what David said I think that that there
00:35:48
are some risks with the uh regulatory
00:35:51
stuff um I personally don't believe that
00:35:54
the US would do that I think that um
00:35:57
that would be pretty dramatic and pretty
00:35:59
crazy um but even if they did yeah I
00:36:01
agree it would be it would be bad in the
00:36:03
short term uh for Bitcoin um I don't I I
00:36:07
kind of believe like the internet that
00:36:10
Bitcoin is inevitable so I don't believe
00:36:13
longterm it will um stop this thing from
00:36:16
happening you can't you know slow the
00:36:18
train down but I don't think you can
00:36:19
stop it um but yeah no denying that if
00:36:22
that were to happen there would be uh
00:36:24
that would be pretty ugly for a little
00:36:26
while I think another risk worth
00:36:29
mentioning it's it's maybe not a risk in
00:36:31
the same sense as some of these other
00:36:33
factors but another risk worth
00:36:35
mentioning as far as mass adoption would
00:36:37
be the security risk as far as you know
00:36:40
people's individual Holdings it's very
00:36:42
easy to you know send Bitcoin to the
00:36:46
wrong address or to you know if you're
00:36:48
not Savvy give up your private keys and
00:36:51
I think that's a risk that will hold a
00:36:54
lot of people back from adopting it you
00:36:57
know at least in its current form where
00:36:59
you know you you you're so very aware
00:37:01
that you're using Bitcoin eventually
00:37:03
when when that's not the case um
00:37:05
obviously this won't be as big of an
00:37:07
issue but I think right now a major
00:37:10
issue is still that you know it's very
00:37:12
it it's finicky in a way that Fiat money
00:37:19
isn't one thing that Andy just mentioned
00:37:23
was kind of thinking about the long term
00:37:25
looking out projecting to the long term
00:37:27
and we did have a written question come
00:37:29
in from uh Financial Freedom page who
00:37:33
asked are you guys invested into Bitcoin
00:37:36
and are you holding for the long term
00:37:39
I've been thinking about getting into it
00:37:40
and I'm curious all of your guys
00:37:42
thoughts thanks in advance so real quick
00:37:46
I I can say that I'm invested about 1%
00:37:48
of my total portfolio into the Osprey
00:37:52
Bitcoin fund or Osprey Bitcoin trust
00:37:55
which I can buy buy it's a mutual fund
00:37:57
that I can buy through Fidelity and they
00:37:59
hold nothing but Bitcoin so that's my
00:38:02
personal exposure but let's go around
00:38:04
the room um Adam do you do you own any
00:38:07
Bitcoin yeah I hold a small amount it's
00:38:09
probably about two% of my portfolio
00:38:12
right now but uh I just been kind of
00:38:14
consistently buying little
00:38:16
chunks gotcha okay okay Shadow how about
00:38:21
you uh I own $20 worth of bitcoin yeah
00:38:26
got are you holding it for the long term
00:38:28
or is it a short-term bet it is going to
00:38:31
the moon tomorrow my friends okay okay
00:38:34
we we'll come back to you Shadow no I I
00:38:36
literally got it for a a joke with
00:38:38
buddies I have no belief in it and you
00:38:40
guys know my my thoughts on it and we
00:38:42
can discuss that later but yeah uh just
00:38:44
is joke we'll come back around the horn
00:38:46
to you Shadow I know you have a question
00:38:48
pent up for us um Brandon do you have
00:38:50
any Bitcoin no I'm slowly working to 1%
00:38:54
um of ethereum but I don't hold any
00:38:56
Bitcoin right now gotcha okay
00:39:00
Roger yeah I got about um close to 1%
00:39:05
it's it's been pretty volatile right so
00:39:06
kind of depending on what day you catch
00:39:08
me I'll have 1% of it yeah say I know
00:39:13
what you're saying same here and then
00:39:14
Dave and Andy I mean I know you guys
00:39:16
probably have a little more than us if
00:39:18
you don't mind sharing I mean how much
00:39:20
Bitcoin do you guys
00:39:22
have uh it's a oh I'll just say my co my
00:39:25
total crypto because I have exposure to
00:39:27
stuff too it's about probably about 15%
00:39:29
of my portfolio Okay okay
00:39:32
Andy uh and I'll be the crazy guy here
00:39:35
I'll be that guy uh 35ish percent of uh
00:39:40
our net worth is uh crypto with 80% of
00:39:44
that being uh Bitcoin and if you uh hop
00:39:47
on Twitter and read some of my threads
00:39:50
and stuff you'll see that uh our net
00:39:52
worth is roughly 1.2 million so you can
00:39:55
do the math figure out out how much I
00:39:57
have yep yep I mean I will say this Andy
00:40:01
a wise person once told me if you have
00:40:04
the conviction and you have the belief
00:40:05
behind it it's not so much crazy anymore
00:40:09
because if if things hit the fan you're
00:40:11
still going to have your belief in it
00:40:13
and having talked to you extensively on
00:40:15
this topic and and heard your thoughts
00:40:17
and I understand exactly where you're
00:40:20
coming from I don't find it crazy
00:40:22
because I know if if something hit the
00:40:25
fan with the market like it kind of did
00:40:26
in the last few weeks you're still in it
00:40:28
for the long haul and I think that's
00:40:30
really important for people listening in
00:40:32
to understand is how Andy has done
00:40:35
enough research to really believe and
00:40:37
have strong conviction for the long run
00:40:40
and these price drops from 60k to 30k
00:40:43
aren't really pushing him off his
00:40:46
predetermined path over the next few
00:40:48
decades is that fair to say Andy yeah
00:40:51
and I'll say uh two additional thoughts
00:40:53
on that one I don't think I'm crazy I'm
00:40:55
very comfortable with my allocation uh
00:40:58
but I'm I'm fine with being labeled that
00:41:00
by a lot of people um and two and I know
00:41:04
that uh and I know that David would also
00:41:07
probably agree with me on this uh yeah
00:41:09
going from 60 our our top of 64 five or
00:41:13
whatever it was and going down to you
00:41:14
know just under 30 recently it honestly
00:41:18
I just just does not phase me um and I
00:41:21
think if if you uh if your stomach is
00:41:24
churning when these these moves happen
00:41:27
because they are dramatic uh then I
00:41:29
always tell people that either you're
00:41:31
Overexposed and maybe you should
00:41:32
reassess how much you have uh into it um
00:41:35
or you just don't really understand what
00:41:37
you bought you bought something because
00:41:38
everybody else was buying it and so you
00:41:40
really need to just learn more about it
00:41:42
uh and understand what you own and why
00:41:45
and why you would want to own it and
00:41:46
then the third thing is you probably
00:41:48
need more time in the market um I've
00:41:49
been I've had significant Bitcoin um
00:41:54
exposure for the past four years um and
00:41:57
uh in that time I've watched uh It Go
00:42:00
from $20,000 to um to the mid 3000 range
00:42:04
up to 65,000 uh recently um and so it's
00:42:08
kind of all par for the course at this
00:42:09
point uh but yeah that's just uh that's
00:42:11
just kind of how it
00:42:13
goes yeah really well said Andy really
00:42:16
well said uh a quick follow-up question
00:42:18
before we get to Shadow the follow-up
00:42:19
question was what was the ticker for the
00:42:22
fund that I was using so it's the Osprey
00:42:24
Bitcoin Trust it's
00:42:27
obtc Oscar Bravo Tango Charlie and that
00:42:31
and that's through Fidelity I'm not sure
00:42:33
if it's offered on other platforms but
00:42:35
it's through Fidelity um but Shadow why
00:42:37
don't you ask a couple of your questions
00:42:39
that you had pent up for us yeah so I
00:42:41
had a question slide in my DM and I was
00:42:43
unable to answer it myself so I'm going
00:42:45
to pass it to you Pros uh someone
00:42:47
mentioned that they remember um I think
00:42:50
it was it Ross ol's uh Silk Road that a
00:42:54
lot of times Bitcoin was mentioned there
00:42:56
so is there an an anonymous Factor
00:42:58
associated with Bitcoin purchases or
00:43:03
not so everything um so it's it's pseudo
00:43:08
Anonymous uh you unless you disclose
00:43:11
what your Bitcoin account is your
00:43:14
account your um your Bitcoin address um
00:43:17
no one knows which one is associated
00:43:19
with you or which one you own however
00:43:21
all the Bitcoin movement on the network
00:43:23
is completely public so if you uh
00:43:26
decided you were going to get yourself
00:43:28
some illicit
00:43:29
materials uh and you sent C you know
00:43:32
couple hundred bucks or a thousand bucks
00:43:34
or something uh over the network to pay
00:43:36
for that um it is completely um visible
00:43:39
to everybody watching the network to see
00:43:40
that thousand move now again they don't
00:43:42
know who's sending it or where like that
00:43:45
uh but the way there's lots of um kind
00:43:48
of chain analysis companies out there
00:43:50
and they watch patterns and what people
00:43:52
say publicly and what is disclosed in uh
00:43:54
the accounts they have and things like
00:43:55
that and with enough sleuthing you can
00:43:58
figure out um who owns what addresses
00:44:01
and who H you know where the Bitcoin
00:44:03
that they have is and things like that
00:44:06
also worth mentioning um I remember
00:44:09
several years ago you could buy
00:44:12
Bitcoin semi anonymously like fairly
00:44:15
anonymously but there are a lot of know
00:44:17
your customer um procedures in place now
00:44:20
so whenever you convert your dollars to
00:44:23
crypto they probably will be a trace and
00:44:27
from there you know if you were ever
00:44:29
subpoena or something or if the exchange
00:44:31
was ever subpoena or something like that
00:44:33
it wouldn't be difficult to figure out
00:44:35
from a legal
00:44:37
standpoint um you know who owned which
00:44:41
addresses I think the bad guys are
00:44:43
always going to be able to figure out
00:44:45
you know uh ways around stuff that there
00:44:47
is ways you can really protect yourself
00:44:50
and get around stuff um it's possible
00:44:53
out there but I mean let let's be
00:44:55
frankly honest I mean I think a lot of
00:44:57
the the fud that you'll hear out there
00:44:59
is people buy use Bitcoin to buy a
00:45:01
listed stuff and they know about s Silk
00:45:03
Road and all that kind of stuff and Andy
00:45:04
laid out this pseudo Anonymous um you
00:45:08
know you know case really well like what
00:45:11
that is but lots of money gets dirty
00:45:15
money gets funneled through the
00:45:16
traditional Financial system all the
00:45:18
time that's like
00:45:19
99% of all the bad money so I mean I
00:45:23
think it's just I mean does it happen on
00:45:25
bitcoin absolutely but you know Banks
00:45:28
big Banks get popped all the time for
00:45:30
doing bad stuff and it's probably the
00:45:32
bank that you use is probably gotten
00:45:34
popped for doing it too so it just I I I
00:45:38
just think that's I think that's where
00:45:39
that kind of question ends up going like
00:45:41
logically and I get it but I it's just
00:45:45
really a a poor realization of the whole
00:45:47
financial picture and what's going on so
00:45:49
Andy if you were buying a powdery
00:45:51
substance would you use cash or
00:45:54
Bitcoin uh depends on where I sourced
00:45:57
either the cash or the
00:46:00
Bitcoin to what Brandon said by the way
00:46:03
there are still places where you can buy
00:46:06
Bitcoin um privately um but they are not
00:46:10
userfriendly um and they are not and you
00:46:13
do pay fairly exorbitant fees and and um
00:46:17
you definitely pay above market rate to
00:46:19
enjoy that privacy and also there are
00:46:22
ways to privately send and receive
00:46:25
Bitcoin um and that's a whole another
00:46:27
deep dig into thing in something called
00:46:29
coin join um but there are ways to
00:46:32
totally be off the grid with Bitcoin um
00:46:35
but that all takes a lot more work and
00:46:37
that is definitely not becoming the
00:46:40
mainstream yeah sha Shadow real quick I
00:46:43
mean I buy powdery stuff every week uh
00:46:47
at the grocery store using a credit card
00:46:50
that's just me personally but I know you
00:46:53
know I don't know if that helps your
00:46:55
question or not
00:46:56
yeah I was wanting to bake so powder
00:46:58
sugar was was definitely on the list I
00:46:59
appreciate that I don't know if they
00:47:01
have credit cards down there but that's
00:47:02
what I use it's just me um Adam I know
00:47:06
Adam had a question pent up for us I
00:47:07
want to pass the mic over to Adam and
00:47:09
then I think Aman I know we've got you
00:47:12
we see a question coming in from you and
00:47:13
Stephen we see one from you as well so
00:47:16
Adam first and we'll go from
00:47:18
there so my question for Andy and Dave
00:47:21
would be where do you guys kind of see
00:47:22
like companies accepting Bitcoin is it
00:47:25
going to be something that kind of just
00:47:26
gradually grows or um something that
00:47:29
kind of is like we see a period where
00:47:31
there's kind of an overnight shift type
00:47:32
thing I know Tesla was taking it for a
00:47:35
little bit I believe they aren't anymore
00:47:37
but my curiosity is just the currency
00:47:39
usage like somebody using that grocery
00:47:42
store something along those
00:47:45
lines so I I think we are still really
00:47:47
early with the currency uh aspect of it
00:47:51
um I think that's going to we're we
00:47:53
still need a lot more um uh kind of
00:47:55
price Discovery and um more adoption
00:47:59
with companies institutions and stuff
00:48:00
like that before we get really into that
00:48:02
but I again I think that's going to be
00:48:06
um the uh the technology they're built
00:48:08
on top of uh Bitcoin um like the
00:48:11
lightning Network and right now there's
00:48:12
some amazing companies like um like
00:48:14
strike is a great company if you want to
00:48:15
look into that's a payments company and
00:48:18
they're building um uh you know personto
00:48:22
person uh payment uh Network on top of
00:48:25
Bitcoin using lightning Network and it's
00:48:28
instantaneous uh it's um the the model
00:48:30
they're doing I believe is completely
00:48:32
fee-free um and it's it's pretty amazing
00:48:35
and I think that when what we're going
00:48:37
to see is I don't think it's going to be
00:48:38
overnight I think it's be gradual but
00:48:39
once we see that kind of uh terminal uh
00:48:42
velocity critical mass kind of moment
00:48:45
pushing uh Bitcoin over the top and then
00:48:47
little by little companies will start
00:48:49
start U adopting it uh accepting it as
00:48:53
pay uh with payments it's going to be
00:48:55
through through Technologies like that
00:48:56
where there's going to be some app or
00:48:58
some uh slick interface uh and uh
00:49:01
Bitcoin is going to be the back end but
00:49:02
you're largely unaware that you're using
00:49:05
it to transact um uh to uh to do that
00:49:09
kind of person to person or company to
00:49:11
company or P or purchase um uh product
00:49:14
um
00:49:17
transaction yeah I think it's I think
00:49:19
we're still ways away you know um and I
00:49:21
think right now I mean there it'll be
00:49:23
really interesting to see what happens
00:49:24
with the elav you know they just they
00:49:26
just made a legal tender down there you
00:49:29
know so what will that adoption look
00:49:30
like down there the the the government
00:49:32
seems to be pretty um pretty bent on uh
00:49:36
really trying to make it happen so
00:49:37
that's really interesting there's like a
00:49:39
um so but I think right now too like
00:49:42
every time so let's say you bought
00:49:44
Bitcoin you know and you're early like
00:49:46
like Andy or some of the other people
00:49:47
that were listening you got you bought
00:49:48
it around 3,000 well it's 30,000 now if
00:49:51
you spend that money you're going to
00:49:53
have a taxable event at that point you
00:49:55
know so are are you going to want to
00:49:57
incur that you know or are you going to
00:49:58
use the money that you have in your
00:50:00
account so I think to Andy's point so
00:50:02
this is like a really stable thing it
00:50:05
doesn't really make sense and it's just
00:50:07
unless laws continue to change it's it
00:50:10
could be just expensive way to
00:50:11
transactions from a tax standpoint
00:50:14
too so are you guys saying that you're
00:50:16
going to see this end up uh 20 years
00:50:18
from now just swiping like a credit card
00:50:20
at the local grocery and walking
00:50:23
out 100%
00:50:28
I've got a question about that Andy I do
00:50:30
I really do I hope we have time for it
00:50:32
but I do want to have our listeners have
00:50:34
some questions first the first one is a
00:50:36
question in passing and it made me laugh
00:50:38
out loud so this is from Clint this is
00:50:41
uh at Clint Robert M who asked why do
00:50:44
only three of us in the chat have laser
00:50:46
eyes so Finance 99 I see you Clint and
00:50:49
then a hipster Finance you guys have
00:50:50
laser eyes the question is Andy and
00:50:52
uncommon yield where are your laser eyes
00:50:55
right now
00:50:58
now laser eyes
00:51:01
represent I I think I think Andy's are
00:51:03
covered up by his cool shades so yeah
00:51:05
they're back there you just can't see
00:51:07
that's fair that's fair that's a great
00:51:09
question um Roger did we want to try to
00:51:12
pass the microphone over to Aman for his
00:51:15
question yeah let's do it and Aman I'm
00:51:17
sorry is if it's pronounced differently
00:51:19
Aman please please correct
00:51:24
me
00:51:25
hey guys uh my name is Aman Singh and I
00:51:29
have a channel called crush the wealth
00:51:31
Gap I wanted to um ask a question and
00:51:34
and this is kind of how I'm thinking
00:51:35
about U uh technology and kind of
00:51:39
Bitcoin and the overall trend um and so
00:51:43
I kind not dive so much into like the
00:51:47
details of things and sure I kind of shy
00:51:50
away from tiny small detail like daily
00:51:54
minute by minute those kind of things
00:51:55
things I'm assuming to 5 year 10 year 20
00:51:58
year 30 year time frames so as a macro
00:52:02
Trend technology is a huge Trend that we
00:52:05
our species entirely would be moving in
00:52:08
the this Century in technology like we
00:52:11
will have better technology 50 years
00:52:14
right all of us would say that like
00:52:15
anybody not saying that would probably
00:52:16
be a doomsday person think have some
00:52:19
kind of nuclear war and then we'll go
00:52:20
back to Sticks and Stones so there's
00:52:22
ways ofing certain civilizations by the
00:52:25
amount of energy they're able to use
00:52:27
right so there's a type civilization
00:52:29
that can use planetary energy to do
00:52:31
whatever it needs to do I believe
00:52:33
internet is one of those Technologies is
00:52:36
using energy from the world to provide
00:52:40
all services all over the world internet
00:52:44
native currency called Bitcoin has
00:52:47
emerged with 1% or less ownership in the
00:52:50
world right so when I thought this a
00:52:54
little bit and I realized and I was a I
00:52:57
thought Bitcoin was a joke from
00:53:00
2014 and um when I when I kind of
00:53:03
thought about this and I kind of said
00:53:05
okay well is this something that's gonna
00:53:08
be here to for term right um and
00:53:13
the yeah go ahead no no I mean I follow
00:53:17
what you're saying and it is you're
00:53:18
making good points I'm just what what
00:53:21
what's your question for
00:53:23
us oh well my question is other the
00:53:27
people's think of Bitcoin in the where
00:53:30
it's something that is to be looked at
00:53:32
as a well it's gone up you know 50 you
00:53:36
know th% the last 10 years or whatnot or
00:53:40
is it that or are are you guys thinking
00:53:41
about it that in th those terms that
00:53:43
these this thing is going up and you
00:53:44
should P of it and maybe speculate in it
00:53:47
or do you see it as a macro Trend like
00:53:50
as if you're owning a piece of the
00:53:53
internet back in 1990s because that's
00:53:55
how I see
00:53:57
it that that is a great question that is
00:53:59
a great question so you see it as owning
00:54:01
a piece of the future essentially owning
00:54:03
a piece of a big macro Trend a shift in
00:54:06
society Andy how do you see it it's like
00:54:09
buying Manhattan real estate in the
00:54:14
1800s exactly it's even bigger than that
00:54:18
apparently yeah I mean per I'm not I'm
00:54:22
not personally that optimistic like I
00:54:23
own 1% of my portfolio is in Bitcoin I'm
00:54:27
not necessarily that optimistic about it
00:54:30
as you guys are but I do see it as
00:54:33
owning um I'm trying to think of a good
00:54:35
analogy here but it's like owning owning
00:54:38
a rubber Factory before cars where it's
00:54:41
like okay it's gonna be important I'm
00:54:44
I'm not sure it's it's uh stitched into
00:54:48
the fabric of the future in the way that
00:54:51
maybe you know maybe Aman Amon and Andy
00:54:54
think but but it's possible it is
00:54:57
possible so I mean I do I do enjoy
00:54:59
hearing your guys enthusiasm for it and
00:55:01
it certainly has rubbed off on me what
00:55:03
do some of other speakers think about
00:55:05
owning Bitcoin right now so I used to
00:55:08
have um I like the vast majority of my
00:55:12
portfolio used to be in Bitcoin when I
00:55:14
was like 20 um and I found that it was
00:55:17
really fun to have a piece of this thing
00:55:19
because there's a huge culture around it
00:55:22
um you know I think there's something to
00:55:25
be said and I understand the desire to
00:55:27
you know be part of it whether or not
00:55:31
you really think it's going to be huge
00:55:34
in 20 years I think there's something to
00:55:36
be said because I do think blockchain
00:55:38
technology will be huge and so there is
00:55:41
something to be said for having a piece
00:55:43
of that now and in its current iteration
00:55:46
I think just from an an enjoyment
00:55:51
standpoint and I want to jump on that
00:55:54
too I think um I I hear a lot of people
00:55:58
who will say basically what Brandon just
00:56:00
said which is you know a big on
00:56:03
blockchain technology um less so on
00:56:06
bitcoin and I think blockchain is
00:56:09
amazing technology um but I think it's
00:56:11
probably incredibly overhyped um and
00:56:15
doesn't have nearly the use case that
00:56:17
everyone thinks it does I think most of
00:56:19
the use cases for many of the utility
00:56:21
tokens and other crypto currencies out
00:56:23
there uh would be better utilized not on
00:56:26
a decentralized uh Ledger but on a
00:56:29
centralized well-built uh database um I
00:56:33
think that that aspect of it is wholly
00:56:36
overrated um but I think Bitcoin as a
00:56:39
currency it is a perfect use of that
00:56:42
technology and given uh its current
00:56:44
status I think that it will be one of
00:56:46
the defining uses of that of that
00:56:48
technology um and Jesse you need more
00:56:51
than a 1% U
00:56:53
allocation so guys I'd love to jump in
00:56:56
here so as somebody who is completely
00:56:59
bearish on the topic I own over a
00:57:02
million dollar in real estate we all
00:57:04
know this 22 doors I own something I can
00:57:07
touch and if we're using Bitcoin as a
00:57:10
currency I don't see there being an
00:57:13
argument to where you can compare them
00:57:15
equally but if we're talking about
00:57:17
holding them in a portfolio like an
00:57:19
investment or an asset then you should
00:57:23
be able to compare them so how can you
00:57:26
sell to Me Andy or anyone else that
00:57:29
owning an
00:57:30
imaginary asset is as important or more
00:57:34
important than owning real estate which
00:57:37
is also a finite asset so I'll briefly
00:57:41
jump over to the the B side and say like
00:57:45
well then you could make the same
00:57:46
argument for stocks right like and I
00:57:47
know people who make that argument they
00:57:49
don't want to own stocks because they'd
00:57:50
rather own real estate that they can
00:57:52
touch but stock is owning a part of an
00:57:57
actual company so it's still a real
00:58:00
asset there in the grand scheme of
00:58:02
things Fair Point
00:58:04
yeah yeah but it's it's it's an
00:58:07
imaginary piece of of a real thing and
00:58:10
the real thing itself is a bunch of
00:58:12
people making up ideas and selling it to
00:58:15
the world so it's just as made up really
00:58:17
it's just got people behind it directly
00:58:19
uh working on it where you can see their
00:58:21
faces and stuff whereas Bitcoin has
00:58:22
people working on it too you just don't
00:58:23
know who all of them are uh but as far
00:58:26
as the whole imaginary thing whatever I
00:58:28
mean it's like it's like a website you
00:58:30
know it's out there you can't touch it
00:58:32
but we see where the internet has gone
00:58:34
uh the world's going digital um we live
00:58:36
in an internet in an international and
00:58:38
internet Society now so that's only
00:58:41
going to be exacerbated going forward um
00:58:44
and also when it comes to like the
00:58:46
argument of uh having some exposure to
00:58:48
it uh I like to think about it like this
00:58:51
if you took 1% of your net worth or even
00:58:54
half of %c but I mean what you know 1%
00:58:56
let's just use that um and bought some
00:58:58
Bitcoin what's your downside you you it
00:59:01
goes to zero and some hypothetical
00:59:03
situation and you're uh lose 1% of your
00:59:06
net worth to that I mean that can happen
00:59:07
with Market fluctuations on anything you
00:59:09
own but the upside is so immense I mean
00:59:12
we're talking about if this thing eats
00:59:13
uh the market caps of things like gold
00:59:15
well then one Bitcoin is worth $500,000
00:59:18
per coin the upside is immense and it's
00:59:20
it's so unbelievable um the the upside
00:59:23
that I just can't or having uh some
00:59:26
exposure to it and I think anybody who
00:59:28
is a reasonable investor wants to grow
00:59:30
their money that upside to downside um
00:59:32
equation in your head has got to be uh
00:59:35
very hard to ignore so if I'm hearing
00:59:38
you you're saying it as an asset you
00:59:41
would still recommend it no matter what
00:59:43
just as a coin flip in a small amount of
00:59:45
your overall portfolio is that
00:59:48
correct oh definitely I mean I can make
00:59:50
Arguments for everything beyond that but
00:59:51
yeah just at its at at its core sure
00:59:54
definitely
00:59:55
appreciate it yeah real quick everybody
00:59:59
I mean for people listening in I think
01:00:01
we can't thank you enough for joining us
01:00:03
for this hour and because we still have
01:00:05
a few questions in the queue and this
01:00:07
conversation has been so Lively we're
01:00:09
gonna stick around for a few more
01:00:10
minutes because we're all enjoying it I
01:00:12
hope you're enjoying it too if you are
01:00:14
enjoying it please feel please give us a
01:00:16
follow you know especially you know Andy
01:00:18
and and Dave for leading this
01:00:20
conversation but as wise and Andy as
01:00:22
Dave are about Bitcoin the other folks
01:00:24
here who have been been speaking today
01:00:26
have their own sets of knowledge that
01:00:28
can improve and have improved my life
01:00:30
and I think can improve your lives too
01:00:33
um so thank you for sticking around
01:00:34
we're g to be here for a few more
01:00:36
minutes Clint I just saw your DM come in
01:00:38
Clint to be honest with you you're like
01:00:40
fourth or fifth in line I'm not sure
01:00:41
we're going to get to you so I might
01:00:43
suggest feel free to reach out to Shadow
01:00:45
directly I think Shadow Clint had some
01:00:47
ideas for you um Nyan Nan I think we're
01:00:51
going to give you the microphone next
01:00:52
but before we do we had a question
01:00:55
that's been waiting in DMS for a while
01:00:57
and that question is how can we use
01:01:00
Bitcoin as a medium of exchange if
01:01:02
governments especially big governments
01:01:05
are not yet accepting it so even if a
01:01:07
poor country a poorer country like say
01:01:10
El Salvador starts accepting it will it
01:01:13
really have a big effect until the
01:01:15
bigger countries give Bitcoin the green
01:01:18
light any thoughts on that macro
01:01:21
question Dave or
01:01:23
Andy
01:01:28
uh sorry mine cut out for a split second
01:01:30
can you repeat the second or I didn't
01:01:32
hear the second half of that I'm sorry
01:01:34
so the question in short is Will Bitcoin
01:01:38
have a longterm store long-term value
01:01:42
until big countries start to adopt it
01:01:45
really I think what it means is until
01:01:46
they accept it as a way of paying
01:01:50
taxes will it have more upside until
01:01:53
then no will it have a future until then
01:01:57
you know can we can we depend on a can a
01:01:59
poor country adopt
01:02:01
Bitcoin or does it have to wait until
01:02:04
really a bigger country does until the
01:02:06
world economy does from a from a bigger
01:02:08
country I mean I think we're seeing that
01:02:10
play out in real time right now I think
01:02:12
that that I think that this small
01:02:14
country adoption is uh part of that kind
01:02:17
of uh momentum shift uh when someone
01:02:20
like when some place like El Salvador
01:02:22
says hey this is actually a
01:02:24
uh this is a currency uh this um we are
01:02:28
we are recognizing it as such well then
01:02:30
a bunch of other countries don't have to
01:02:31
decide how they're going to interpret
01:02:33
that um and then yeah I me I think real
01:02:35
momentum will come when some large comp
01:02:37
uh countries uh decide to give it that
01:02:40
same uh credibility um but uh no I think
01:02:44
it's inevitable either
01:02:47
way okay thanks Andy thanks Andy I
01:02:50
followed that um Roger do we want to
01:02:52
hand the microphone over to n I
01:02:55
apologize if I'm mispronouncing that
01:02:56
name
01:02:57
Nan but yep I just did yep
01:03:06
perfect hey guys can you hear me yes so
01:03:11
yeah so I'm a big believer in crypto uh
01:03:14
in general and uh I'm an investor in
01:03:17
Bitcoin and etherium so my question is
01:03:20
very straightforward I just want to know
01:03:22
how Andy are uh The Uncommon yield uh
01:03:26
you guys decide if you have let's say 10
01:03:30
20 $30,000 lying around on your checking
01:03:32
account and you want to put it on
01:03:35
bitcoin how do you decide uh like what
01:03:38
price is good for
01:03:43
buying by the dip yeah no I just dollar
01:03:46
cost average you know I I've been I've
01:03:48
been um I mean that's you can there's a
01:03:51
lot of really cool calculators out there
01:03:53
if you have a big chunk of money out
01:03:55
there it's really the the the market is
01:03:58
so volatile if you followed it for any
01:04:00
period of time the price swings are
01:04:02
massive um just dollar cost average I
01:04:06
mean that that that's the best buying
01:04:07
strategy for really any accumulating any
01:04:09
asset you that you want to buy so don't
01:04:12
buy the top don't try to buy the top or
01:04:14
sell the top don't try to buy the bottom
01:04:15
you know just just just get in a
01:04:17
littleit over time got it hey nian hey
01:04:21
good to hear from you my friend uh so uh
01:04:25
yeah uh and actually Jesse on his Blog
01:04:27
has a great blog post on um Bitcoin
01:04:31
buying um and based on that I would say
01:04:35
two things one uh just what David said
01:04:37
uh dollar cost averaging that's what I
01:04:39
do um and two if you just have a big
01:04:42
chunk of money uh there's two ways to
01:04:44
handle it one just go ahead and buy and
01:04:46
just get in the market as soon as
01:04:47
possible and just wait it out long term
01:04:50
uh that's going to be a positive over
01:04:51
the Long Haul uh or two if that gives
01:04:55
you any worry well then just resort to
01:04:58
answer number one which is dollar cost
01:04:59
average and just sit that to the account
01:05:02
span that out over the period of time
01:05:04
which it'll last and then just
01:05:05
automatically buy based on that that
01:05:08
makes sense thanks a lot
01:05:10
guys yeah thank you for the question I
01:05:12
actually I just tweeted at you the
01:05:14
article that Andy was speaking about so
01:05:17
give it a read and and let me know if
01:05:18
you have any questions on that in short
01:05:21
dollar cost averaging over the history
01:05:23
of bitco coin has proven to be a better
01:05:26
strategy than waiting for dips because
01:05:29
essentially Bitcoin has been running
01:05:31
away from us and sometimes you'll be
01:05:32
waiting for a dip and the dip never
01:05:34
really comes or it comes too late and
01:05:36
you would have been better off buying
01:05:37
the entire time um Roger I think you had
01:05:41
mentioned Roger we have a question
01:05:43
another question from Stephen is that
01:05:44
right that's
01:05:53
correct
01:05:58
hey
01:05:59
um quick question for uh David and
01:06:03
uncommon yield um so I got this uh email
01:06:08
from uh one of the exchanges uh and they
01:06:11
said hey they a reputable one um deposit
01:06:16
your uh Bitcoin in here and we'll give
01:06:18
you 7% yield over uh 90 days and I know
01:06:23
uh you're into this um The Lending and
01:06:26
the yield with crypto whether it's
01:06:29
ethereum or Bitcoin or uh and such so
01:06:32
I'm just I'm curious to Inner workings
01:06:34
of how they can uh pay me back at 7%
01:06:37
annual on bitcoin given deflationary
01:06:41
currency and such a high yield when
01:06:44
interest rates are so low right now so
01:06:46
I'm just curious just is somebody paying
01:06:49
them a higher percentage in
01:06:53
Bitcoin yeah no that's that's a great
01:06:55
aay that
01:06:57
money yeah that's a great question
01:06:59
Stephen so this is essentially what
01:07:01
they're doing is uh you look at fully
01:07:03
paid Securities lending that's
01:07:05
essentially what they're doing except
01:07:08
that's what exchanges do um in the stock
01:07:11
market so that's why so many exchanges
01:07:13
can offer free um you know free free
01:07:18
trades is they do fully paid security
01:07:20
lending on the back end you never see it
01:07:22
they lend out your your stock all the
01:07:24
time make money off of it and uh you
01:07:27
never see a penny so if that's the case
01:07:29
I would encourage you to find an
01:07:30
exchange that um or a brokerage house
01:07:34
even for stocks that that offer you that
01:07:36
that opportunity to let you participate
01:07:38
in that yield but there they're doing
01:07:40
the same thing so companies like blockfi
01:07:43
or Celsius
01:07:45
or um nexo lend the Voyager there's
01:07:49
there's a bunch of them um what what
01:07:51
they do is they Bitcoin is a really
01:07:54
thinly traded um asset so this is going
01:07:58
to get kind of technical so if you you
01:07:59
all aren't fing I apologize this is
01:08:01
going to be kind of like the quick and
01:08:02
dirty since we're close on time but this
01:08:05
the float is really small so that's like
01:08:06
the amount of um Bitcoin that's getting
01:08:10
traded on these exchanges so if you're
01:08:11
an exchange if you're coinbase or
01:08:14
binance or whatever you need enough
01:08:17
liquidity in those markets for folks to
01:08:20
be able to buy and sell if they you
01:08:21
don't have enough liquidity for folks to
01:08:23
be able to buy and sell on your exchange
01:08:25
you're not going to be able to make
01:08:27
money one and then two they're going to
01:08:29
get shut down like there's like the
01:08:31
infamous like coinbase outages that
01:08:32
happen whenever bitcoin's like really
01:08:34
running or really crashing and it
01:08:36
magically just shuts down right so these
01:08:39
exchanges pay an exorbitantly high fee
01:08:43
to uh plac places like block F like
01:08:46
genesis capital is another really big
01:08:47
one to um to to be able to float enough
01:08:52
Bitcoin to have liquidity in their
01:08:53
exchanges if if you look at any of the
01:08:55
D5 protocols that are out there too uh
01:08:58
the yields are super high I mean there's
01:09:00
like 20% 80% 100% in some of these
01:09:03
liquidity pools and look I be very
01:09:05
careful they're super risky but the
01:09:08
reason why they're so high is because
01:09:10
there's such a great demand for
01:09:12
liquidity in that market so one of the
01:09:16
things that we that we're seeing
01:09:17
happening in the these lending markets
01:09:21
as block flight has had their rates come
01:09:22
out and they lowered and that's because
01:09:23
because one there's more and more people
01:09:25
wanting to lend their Bitcoin there's
01:09:27
more competition coming out um to lend
01:09:31
Bitcoin to these big entities and then
01:09:34
three like the price is going down so
01:09:36
people wanting to to borrow the volumes
01:09:38
a lot less so there's less demand so
01:09:40
that's kind of the quick and dirty
01:09:42
answer but if you um search for fully
01:09:44
paid Securities lending you can get a
01:09:46
pretty good feel for what exactly like
01:09:48
is happening from a mechanic
01:09:52
standpoint
01:09:55
yeah awesome yeah you you kind of read
01:09:58
the the worry or concern there right
01:10:00
where it's like it's really high yield
01:10:03
and almost makes it kind of sound like a
01:10:05
scam sort of thing and um I mean so far
01:10:09
so good you know everyone's tweeting and
01:10:13
talking about uh the different high
01:10:15
yields on
01:10:16
usct etc etc we don't you know you know
01:10:20
what I'm talking about so I'm just you
01:10:22
know somebody has to pay the bill I'm
01:10:23
just concerned just counterparty risk on
01:10:26
that and just somebody's like oh I I
01:10:29
can't make the
01:10:30
payment you know not enough got mind or
01:10:33
whatever I can't I can't pay that and
01:10:35
then just contagion hits and the whole
01:10:37
thing starts to escalate in Domino and
01:10:40
um that sort of thing and then so yeah
01:10:43
yeah I I'll try to post a few um
01:10:46
podcasts after this they kind of go
01:10:48
through some of at least the the
01:10:50
business model for blockfi like I I've
01:10:51
used them a lot in the past and I dove
01:10:54
down pretty deep so um it it'll help
01:10:57
make a little bit more sense um I
01:11:00
definitely understand how the people can
01:11:02
be reticent you know and and say the
01:11:05
yields that that are so high but they do
01:11:07
make sense when you kind of start to
01:11:09
understand the market you understand how
01:11:10
thinly traded it is and you kind of pair
01:11:13
that with like fully paid Securities
01:11:15
lending that is like a normal Market
01:11:17
making activity that happens all the
01:11:19
time in the stock
01:11:21
market David would you say that the
01:11:25
those services that the yield that they
01:11:27
pay is an uncommon yield it is 100% an
01:11:31
uncommon Y and
01:11:33
Andy Andy we're gonna kick you off get
01:11:36
out get out Andy I accept
01:11:39
this um Dave I'd certainly be interested
01:11:43
in hearing you talk about the business
01:11:44
model of blockfi because there a great
01:11:46
question Stephen I've had the same
01:11:48
questions almost like where are these
01:11:50
yields coming from exactly and and when
01:11:54
when I don't have the answer because I I
01:11:56
don't have a good answer and I haven't
01:11:57
committed the time to finding the answer
01:11:59
part of my brain says boy it sure sounds
01:12:02
like a pyramid scheme so I would love to
01:12:05
hear I would love to hear your thoughts
01:12:07
and and on explaining why it's not that
01:12:09
um I would certainly benefit from that
01:12:11
yeah I mean maybe we cue that up for a
01:12:14
podcast in the future and you asking
01:12:15
pepper me with questions and figure out
01:12:17
where what I don't know I think that'd
01:12:18
be fun very cool very cool I mean let
01:12:22
let me let me put this flag in the
01:12:24
ground like I still have a few questions
01:12:26
lined up but it's going to take us till
01:12:28
like 11:30 my time to get there so I
01:12:31
almost feel like we should save them for
01:12:33
another round but I want to go around
01:12:34
the room I mean any questions right now
01:12:36
while we're still going from from
01:12:38
anybody else on the on the speaker
01:12:46
microphone he if if if I could I want to
01:12:49
know Andy do you think your experience
01:12:52
with uh with pirate you know what I'm
01:12:54
talking about the crash in the crypto
01:12:56
winter do you think there's a
01:12:58
possibility of that happening
01:13:01
again uh so two things there you said
01:13:05
you talk you were asking about uh pirate
01:13:07
again and you're asking um no more just
01:13:11
like well I find your story with pirates
01:13:14
very uh unique inspiring and really Keen
01:13:18
business sense on that I know it's a
01:13:19
separate topic maybe for a different
01:13:21
session and stuff but I think there's a
01:13:22
lot of princip and a lot to learn with
01:13:24
what you did there with that but just I
01:13:27
guess just do you see I know you
01:13:29
mentioned earlier bull run we're not out
01:13:31
of this but do you see any kind of sharp
01:13:33
downturn in the medium term in order to
01:13:36
get there eventually uh so in the near
01:13:39
term no I think we still I I think we're
01:13:42
gonna have have a few more Corrections
01:13:44
certainly uh but no nothing like what we
01:13:47
uh we I don't think we're quite ready to
01:13:49
go into another bare Market but I do
01:13:51
believe absolutely yes we're gonna have
01:13:52
another
01:13:53
uh down Market I I don't know if it's
01:13:55
going to play out like the last one did
01:13:57
or not um but I I'm convinced we will
01:13:59
see that again it seems uh crypto seems
01:14:02
to just love the cycle and hasn't given
01:14:03
it up yet at least uh at this at this
01:14:06
stage of the game um and based on the
01:14:09
the last one I think that um if and when
01:14:12
that happens again there's going to be
01:14:13
tons of wonderful opportunity if you are
01:14:17
uh if you have conviction if you're able
01:14:19
to if you have if you have any money
01:14:20
left over uh if you're able to um you
01:14:24
know pick up some stuff at an extreme
01:14:26
discount and uh and wait out for the you
01:14:30
know several years you have to wait
01:14:31
until the next uh bull cycle after that
01:14:34
um and the thing that uh Stephen is
01:14:36
asking me about specifically is I did a
01:14:37
thread on a uh an altcoin called pirate
01:14:41
chain and essentially during the last
01:14:44
crypto um bare Market the crypto winter
01:14:48
uh it's one of the many plays that I
01:14:49
made where I spent very minimal dollars
01:14:52
buying a m
01:14:54
a an Asic Miner a mining rig uh to mine
01:14:58
it because I saw potential in it and I
01:15:00
so basically I invested a little bit of
01:15:01
money in this machine I invested money
01:15:03
every month for a uh few years in
01:15:06
electricity and I mined a big stack and
01:15:08
I spent maybe $1,200 on that investment
01:15:12
and at pirate Chain's Peak that
01:15:13
investment was worth like1 150 to
01:15:17
$185,000 I exited some of that position
01:15:20
and held some of it um but that is one
01:15:23
of many decisions I made over the during
01:15:25
the last bare Market with mining
01:15:28
investing in coins I saw potential in
01:15:31
all with the end goal end result of just
01:15:33
uh increasing my uh my Bitcoin
01:15:38
stack that's really cool Andy I think
01:15:41
you're one of the few people who I know
01:15:43
personally who runs a mining rig I think
01:15:46
it's really cool to hear about that
01:15:48
because it really is almost like kind of
01:15:50
like printing your own money at least in
01:15:52
my head that's how I think of of it yes
01:15:54
I have a miniaturized Federal Reserve in
01:15:57
my house it's
01:15:59
wonderful decentralized reserve and one
01:16:02
thing one little thing I wanted to add
01:16:04
to Stephen's question I'm not sure if it
01:16:05
a 100 per answers it but I think it
01:16:07
comes close I own a lot of stocks and I
01:16:10
know in the back of my mind I am very
01:16:13
well prepared for the fact that stocks
01:16:16
could drop 30 or 40 or 50% in the near
01:16:19
term it could happen we saw them drop 35
01:16:23
% last year you know and I wasn't too
01:16:26
bothered by it I knew it might happen
01:16:28
and when it happened I wasn't too
01:16:29
bothered by it with Bitcoin that
01:16:31
percentage might be 50 or 60 or 70% and
01:16:35
I think if someone has done their
01:16:37
research and feels confident in the long
01:16:39
run like the way Andy does and like the
01:16:41
way Dave does and to be honest with you
01:16:43
like the way I do with my 1% I'm not too
01:16:46
bothered by the fact that it might drop
01:16:47
50% in a short time span because I'm
01:16:50
holding for the long term now I don't
01:16:53
have the confidence to hold quite as big
01:16:55
a percentage of my portfolio as Dave or
01:16:57
Andy but that mindset in the back of my
01:16:59
mind about how much it could drop if
01:17:01
things went poorly does help me maintain
01:17:04
my faith for the long term similarly to
01:17:07
the way it does for stocks just my two
01:17:16
cents yeah I think that's a really good
01:17:18
point you uh you brought that up earlier
01:17:19
too just the the conviction and you know
01:17:21
Shadow rents has that with his rental
01:17:23
properties he's not going to deviate
01:17:25
you're not going to shake him off that
01:17:27
just like um Andy with
01:17:30
Bitcoin um and I I think that's that's a
01:17:33
really important lesson I think for for
01:17:35
all of us right just to have that asset
01:17:37
have that
01:17:38
conviction uh for a particular asset and
01:17:40
see it through and I think uh you'll
01:17:42
come out a winner at the
01:17:43
end right right I think that's the whole
01:17:46
that's the whole point around portfolio
01:17:47
management and why for many people it
01:17:50
makes sense to have a diverse portfolio
01:17:52
because you say if if a certain asset is
01:17:54
so risky that its potential downside is
01:17:57
going to turn me off well that means you
01:17:59
should have a smaller allocation of that
01:18:01
asset you know if if Bitcoin turns you
01:18:04
off with its downside you should have a
01:18:05
smaller allocation if if government
01:18:08
bonds make you feel really good because
01:18:10
you know there's very little downside
01:18:12
maybe you have a larger allocation than
01:18:13
most I know Dave is probably cringing
01:18:15
but at the end of the day it's personal
01:18:18
it's it's a risk allocation mindset and
01:18:21
everyone's going to be a little
01:18:22
different and I commend Andy and Dave
01:18:25
for understanding the math and
01:18:27
understanding the way it could drop the
01:18:29
volatility and that drives them to say
01:18:31
I'm accepting the risks and in the long
01:18:33
run it it should pay off I I really hope
01:18:37
it does pay off for
01:18:39
them um with that I'm gonna go around
01:18:44
the room one more time for any final
01:18:45
thoughts any final thoughts from our
01:18:47
speaker so so Shadow how you doing man
01:18:51
I'm good feel I learned a lot I
01:18:52
appreciate uh Andy and and Rogers and
01:18:54
all you guys time for uh enlightening me
01:18:57
on the subject I'm still think uh still
01:19:00
thinking that I'm not touching it you
01:19:01
guys are crazy that I own properties
01:19:04
that I can touch and hold and and burn
01:19:06
down if I want and stuff I own's real
01:19:08
and you guys are crazy but I appreciate
01:19:09
you all's
01:19:12
views Roger how about
01:19:14
you this has been great I mean it's I've
01:19:17
learned a lot from you guys as well um
01:19:19
for me I'm kind of
01:19:21
um it's the volatility is big for me
01:19:24
that I think that's why I hold smaller
01:19:25
positions of it I I believe that there
01:19:27
is a future and I think there's you have
01:19:30
to be kind of open-minded and that's why
01:19:32
I do have a 1% allocation on it and
01:19:35
maybe that'll grow in the future but for
01:19:36
right now that's pretty much what I'm
01:19:37
comfortable with just based on the
01:19:40
volatil the volatility that it
01:19:43
has yep makes sense Adam what are your
01:19:46
thoughts I was just gonna kind of piggy
01:19:49
what Andy said it's you know I'm not a
01:19:51
huge uh Bitcoin guy but I obviously like
01:19:54
I still have a little bit of it but I
01:19:56
just think the risk to reward is kind of
01:19:58
one of those things that you hold that
01:20:00
one or two% allocation of it and you
01:20:02
know play the long-term game and
01:20:05
hopefully ends out hopefully ends out on
01:20:07
the wrong side right
01:20:08
side right right Brandon are you uh
01:20:12
sticking the course with ethereum for
01:20:14
now yeah and I'm also disappointed
01:20:16
nobody told me to have fun staying poor
01:20:18
during this entire conversation but uh
01:20:21
no it was a good it was a good convers
01:20:23
um I like that we were able to discuss
01:20:25
both sides without anybody you know
01:20:28
going to nuts um I think everybody made
01:20:31
very solid points so I really enjoyed it
01:20:34
we're still gonna be live for a couple
01:20:36
minutes so Never Say Never that's true
01:20:40
Dave Dave why don't you go next uh you
01:20:42
can have fun staying poor Brandon I's go
01:20:44
ahead and rip that Band-Aid off right
01:20:46
now but uh no I think um you know I
01:20:50
would just take some time if you're
01:20:51
interested in Bitcoin you you know read
01:20:53
the Bitcoin white paper it's it's really
01:20:55
not that long um you know engage with
01:20:57
people on Twitter I you to to Brandon's
01:21:00
point the Bitcoin Community can be
01:21:02
really brutal uh and not fun uh there's
01:21:05
a lot of people that are and they
01:21:07
they've built up a lot of calluses I
01:21:09
think over the years with people
01:21:10
attacking it and they just go ballistic
01:21:12
When anybody has a question even if it's
01:21:14
a valid one um so you know just find the
01:21:17
folks that want to talk about it you
01:21:18
know like like Andy and I talk about it
01:21:20
we're not mean about it um you know find
01:21:23
the folks that you know are interested
01:21:25
want to teach it want to learn and aren
01:21:27
aren't mean about it and you know just
01:21:28
do a little bit of your own
01:21:30
research thanks Dave I want to uh just
01:21:34
give a big thanks to some faces in the
01:21:36
crowd who I see who are are familiar and
01:21:38
even more faces in the crowd who I see
01:21:40
who I don't know yet thank you guys for
01:21:42
calling in and listening to this for the
01:21:44
past hour it means a ton to us but I
01:21:47
want to give the last word to to Andy
01:21:50
Andy why don't you sign us off
01:21:53
yeah thank you for everybody who has
01:21:54
listened in who stuck around if you've
01:21:56
submitted questions or participated uh
01:21:59
really I really appreciate it we all
01:22:01
really appreciate it uh this is a ton of
01:22:03
fun to talk about this stuff it's
01:22:05
obviously something uh some of us are
01:22:07
very passionate about so it's always
01:22:08
exciting to chat with um everyone uh I
01:22:11
will end with uh with this I think if
01:22:14
there's anything in here that pequ your
01:22:15
C curiosity if um if if this got you if
01:22:20
got if this got the mind kind of running
01:22:23
a little bit and thinking about Bitcoin
01:22:25
and maybe you don't have an allocation
01:22:26
or maybe you have a very tiny one and
01:22:28
you thinking about this whole maybe I
01:22:30
should allocate a small percentage um uh
01:22:33
of my portfolio I just encourage you
01:22:35
just there's so many resources out there
01:22:37
so many great podcasts books um Etc I'm
01:22:39
sure many of us are happy to chat with
01:22:41
you too um reach out and do the research
01:22:44
for yourself see if there's any personal
01:22:46
conviction there that you find for
01:22:48
yourself um and then uh and then i'
01:22:50
encourage you to to give it a shot um I
01:22:52
think I think what a lot of people are
01:22:53
going to find is if they give 1%
01:22:55
allocation um in their portfolio to
01:22:57
something like Bitcoin with such a
01:23:00
symmetric um potential upside that uh in
01:23:03
the upcoming years they're going to see
01:23:05
that 1% um of their portfolio so far
01:23:07
outperform the rest that they're going
01:23:10
to wonder why uh they shouldn't have
01:23:12
more of an allocation 5% 10% or whatever
01:23:15
um I think the potential there is
01:23:17
incredible um and I'm excited to be a
01:23:19
part of the the ride the journey and the
01:23:21
community and uh excited to uh chat with
01:23:24
everybody here so thanks for taking the
01:23:25
uh the time to do
01:23:27
so excellent thank you Andy thank you
01:23:31
all all right everybody I think that's
01:23:33
it have a great
01:23:35
night see you fellas cheers guys thank
01:23:38
you thank you every see you have a great
01:23:40
night
01:23:41
[Laughter]
01:23:43
[Music]
01:23:46
[Laughter]
01:23:49
[Music]
01:23:51
guys
01:23:54
some might cost a
01:23:58
little some might cost a
01:24:03
lot but I'm the Million dooll
01:24:08
Man and you will be
01:24:11
[Laughter]
01:24:21
B
01:24:51
h