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[Music]
00:01:15
tool welcome to the best interest
00:01:18
podcast hosted by Jesse Kramer where we
00:01:20
discuss today's best ideas in personal
00:01:22
finance and investing the best interest
00:01:25
is a personal podcast meant for
00:01:27
entertainment purposes only it should
00:01:29
not be taken as Financial advice and is
00:01:31
not prescriptive of your financial
00:01:33
situation here's your host Jesse
00:01:37
Kramer hey guys welcome to episode 26 of
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the best interest podcast I am Jesse
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Kramer my guest today he's an absolute
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Allstar of a guy we had a terrific
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conversation about his struggle with
00:01:50
debt falling into debt but then
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ultimately conquering debt it was really
00:01:55
a brass tax personal finance
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conversation with some lessons about
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getting into financial trouble but then
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even more lessons about how to drag
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yourself back out I hope you guys enjoy
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but real quick before I introduce Our
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Guest could you please pause the show
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and then in your podcast app give a
00:02:13
rating and review to the best interest
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podcast why because the best interest
00:02:18
it's a growing small business and I want
00:02:20
to keep making this content for people
00:02:22
just like you a rating and a review it
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lets all those fancy algorithms know
00:02:27
that you care about this podcast C and I
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know I'm asking for your time I'm asking
00:02:33
for your effort and I know that you
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don't owe me anything so I really
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appreciate those of you who decide to
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sacrifice that time and effort to leave
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that rating and review thank you guys so
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with that let's go meet our
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[Music]
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guest my guest today has a wonderful
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story about the struggle but the
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ultimate conquering of death
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yes debt that pesky quicksand that has
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kept so many of us from optimizing our
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own finances and by telling his story
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honestly the UPS the Downs the successes
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and failures he's now helping other
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people overcome their debt so I'm very
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excited today to introduce Adam sha to
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the best interest podcast hey Adam how
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are you doing I'm doing well Jesse how
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about yourself doing great doing great
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we had uh thunderstorms rolling through
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here tonight in Rochester but
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everything's calm now if you do hear a
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deep Rumble though they might be they
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might be coming
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back um I was thinking Adam let's not
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bury the lead too much let's talk
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through your debt story and I was
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thinking maybe we could split it up into
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two halves you know one half going down
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into the valley of debt and then the
00:03:47
second half of digging yourself out of
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debt so first you want to kind of walk
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us through the the bad side if you will
00:03:54
of your debt story yeah so I mean it
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basically all started um I I mean back
00:04:00
when I was 18 getting ready for college
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you know I started taking out uh student
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loans to cover the cost of tuition and
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luckily it wasn't using it to fund like
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living expenses like I've heard you know
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some other stories going down that road
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but to start at 18 taking loans out and
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you know I had a a pretty I'd say a
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basic idea I knew what it was you know I
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knew I was going to have to pay it back
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but I didn't really fully understand you
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know what that was going to take to pay
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it back so 18 to 20 you know creu
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student loans as each semester went on
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uh there was a Wells Fargo on campus
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where one of the nice Bankers there
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encouraged me to open up a credit card y
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because it would be good yeah it' be
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great for my credit he said so I said
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hey that sounds good um opened up a
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credit card and then shortly after that
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bought uh Music Festival tickets didn't
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go on the music music festival sold my
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tickets and then did not use the
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proceeds to pay off the balance and
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that's how I kind of say that the you
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know quote unquote bad debt had started
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started at that point and so it's uh
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it's funny to talk about now it wasn't
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as funny in the mo at the time but I
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basically carried a balance on that
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credit card for years before I ever paid
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it off and I I don't even want to look
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back to see how much interest the
00:05:13
younger Adam was paying but I'm sure it
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was uh not pretty and then just as kind
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of the years went on you know I got
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another credit card I think it was a
00:05:21
travel credit card um pretty sure it's
00:05:23
American Airlines ended up racking that
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thing up pretty high uh use one of my
00:05:30
stupid moves transferred the debt over
00:05:32
to a personal loan and then continued to
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use the credit card and I you know I'm
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at I'm blame I'm to blame for that but
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the structure in place is I had a budget
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I'd fill it out each month but I would
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never follow it so my spending was super
00:05:46
you know unpredictable you know I'd see
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something for a couple hundred bucks I'd
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buy it wouldn't think anything of it and
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yeah then basically I was probably 25
00:05:56
you know out of college working working
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a full-time job and just wasn't really
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paying much attention to what I was
00:06:02
carrying around and by that point it had
00:06:04
you know I had a car a car loan I had
00:06:07
all sort you know still had the credit
00:06:08
cards the student loans was kind of
00:06:09
making the minimum payments and was just
00:06:11
kind of plugging along with you know at
00:06:14
that point it probably was a little
00:06:16
around mid-30s upper 30s thousand doll
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in debt and I just thought it was normal
00:06:21
I thought everybody had it you know I
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knew I should have probably paid out the
00:06:24
credit card but because everybody else
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wasn't I thought it was all right and
00:06:27
that's kind of how it all slowly
00:06:29
progress from student loans to credit
00:06:30
cards to personal loans to an auto loan
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and it all just kind of slowly
00:06:34
accumulates if you're not paying
00:06:35
attention which I wasn't it's the
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proverbial slippery
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slope you touched on the Wells Fargo on
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campus I had a Chase on campus at the
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University of Rochester it's very
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interesting Looking Back Now that there
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was a bank right there that was
00:06:53
absolutely marketing credit cards to 18y
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olds I don't know what to think about it
00:07:00
to be honest with you Adam I'm curious
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what you think about it considering you
00:07:03
signed up for one on the one hand it
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feels I don't want to say predatory
00:07:08
because adults make their own decisions
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but it feels a little curious that
00:07:11
there's this corporate entity on an
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educational campus looking to make a
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profit essentially off of the student
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body do you have any thoughts on that or
00:07:22
what do you think about it now looking
00:07:23
back on on that situation well I mean if
00:07:26
I was to think back when I was 18 or
00:07:28
when I was cruising around campus I
00:07:30
thought it was super convenient at the
00:07:31
time I used Wells Fargo so they had
00:07:34
University of Nevada Reno they were
00:07:35
really good with having a lot of
00:07:36
amenities and ATMs all sorts of stuff on
00:07:39
campus so basically if you living on
00:07:41
campus or nearby you could more or less
00:07:43
get anything you needed on campus um but
00:07:46
just in terms of having the branch I'll
00:07:49
I'll do the same as you I'll do the
00:07:50
boring Mo I'll stay away from the
00:07:52
predatory so I'll I'll follow you in
00:07:54
that suit but I do think that I mean
00:07:58
it's hard to deny that their financial
00:08:00
incentive to stay on campus and
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basically you know Market to students
00:08:05
who are kind of walking around hey you
00:08:06
have student loans you're low on cash
00:08:07
you're probably working 20 hours a week
00:08:09
you don't have a whole lot you know come
00:08:11
in here check it out we'll see if we can
00:08:12
help you out you're going to build
00:08:13
credit along the way and those things
00:08:15
and I know it wasn't just myself I had a
00:08:16
couple buddies that also went in there
00:08:17
too and you know they started you out
00:08:19
with I think it was a $800 limit I'm
00:08:22
pretty sure what it was something small
00:08:23
but you know just kind of like you
00:08:25
talked about with the slippery slope
00:08:27
it's just um you know you start with 8
00:08:29
$100 they slowly start bumping it up you
00:08:31
don't pay the balance and then it just
00:08:33
uh slowly grows and grows but I mean in
00:08:36
one hand it was convenient having them
00:08:37
on campus but just on the other hand it
00:08:39
was you know I can't tell Well's far
00:08:42
about how to run their business or tell
00:08:43
them not to be you know marketing credit
00:08:45
cards to college students um but it was
00:08:48
it was an interesting little situation
00:08:50
with having them especially and they
00:08:52
were they were parked conveniently by
00:08:54
the uh our Student Center so basically
00:08:57
all the food and you you know the what
00:09:00
do you put it or what do you call it the
00:09:02
the store where they sold all the you
00:09:04
know the campus gear and everything like
00:09:05
that gotcha yeah yeah just like the the
00:09:07
book the bookstore with all the with all
00:09:09
the bookstore clothing and stuff in it
00:09:11
yeah all the places where you'd either
00:09:13
be walking through and or spending money
00:09:16
exactly so it's definitely the building
00:09:17
that gets arguably the most foot traffic
00:09:19
on campus so also a smart smart tactic
00:09:23
on their part yeah yeah smart tactic and
00:09:26
and it is the kind of thing of let them
00:09:28
run their own business and if there are
00:09:29
any 18-year-olds out there listening be
00:09:32
very aware of why that bank is there on
00:09:35
campus and in in your case Adam why it's
00:09:37
located where it's at it is to provide
00:09:40
you a service but that service
00:09:41
absolutely can come at a cost if you're
00:09:43
not paying down that bill every month I
00:09:46
wanted to ask though Adam walk us
00:09:48
through this you said you transferred
00:09:50
your credit card debt to a personal loan
00:09:52
is that right what are the logistics of
00:09:54
that so basically I had a American
00:09:58
Airlines credit card because around that
00:10:00
time I was doing a little bit more
00:10:01
traveling I had started seeing my now
00:10:04
wife she lives in Brazil so I had made a
00:10:06
couple trips down there and I thought
00:10:07
it'd be wise to get a travel card to get
00:10:09
some points and whatnot but basically in
00:10:11
essence of what I did was I had I think
00:10:13
it was around six grand in credit card
00:10:15
debt and I went to lent I looked at a
00:10:19
couple online you know personal loan
00:10:22
places um I know Marcus I think from
00:10:24
Golden Sachs golden Sachs has one and
00:10:26
then the one I ended up going with was
00:10:28
Lending club and basically all I did was
00:10:31
um kind of applied for a loan they gave
00:10:34
me or not applied for a loan I applied
00:10:37
for like a balance transfer I guess is
00:10:38
the way to put it they basically said
00:10:40
yeah we'll take that debt on WE we'll
00:10:43
give you I believe the interest rate was
00:10:45
around 8% something like that so much
00:10:47
better than the 20 plus that I was
00:10:49
paying on the credit card but and then
00:10:50
at that point they did some sort of
00:10:52
transfer and then the credit card deck
00:10:54
got wiped down to zero and then at that
00:10:56
point it had transferred completely to
00:10:57
the personal loan and then I had a
00:10:59
monthly payment that I had to make to
00:11:00
them gotcha okay and then at this point
00:11:03
do you still do you still have credit
00:11:05
cards or at one point did you close
00:11:06
credit cards and reopen them or how does
00:11:09
that work so at this point it's kind of
00:11:11
hard to keep track of all the moves I
00:11:12
had done um but basically at that point
00:11:16
I believe I still had the uh the Wells
00:11:18
Fargo still had some balance on it I I
00:11:20
still have never closed that one just
00:11:22
because it's got the longest uh the
00:11:24
length of History so I'm keeping that
00:11:26
one for the for the credit report um but
00:11:29
I had it at sometimes I had moved money
00:11:31
I think there was an American Express
00:11:32
Bal free balance transfer one that I had
00:11:34
moved it over there so I had at that
00:11:37
point I I you know I had a handful
00:11:38
probably like three credit cards that I
00:11:40
was kind of working
00:11:42
with gotcha okay um yeah it's a great
00:11:46
lesson credit card balances there so
00:11:50
credit cards in general I should say are
00:11:51
such a useful tool they're so portable
00:11:55
accepted everywhere you can spend money
00:11:57
without carrying the cash on on you but
00:12:00
this story is evidence of some of the
00:12:02
some of the downside of credit cards I
00:12:04
compare them to a a sharp kitchen knife
00:12:07
right it can allow you to cook up this
00:12:08
gourmet meal but if you're not careful
00:12:11
and you're not Vigilant you are going to
00:12:13
slice your own finger
00:12:15
off and and it happens before you know
00:12:17
it too it's kind of one of those things
00:12:18
that you know especially with just the
00:12:20
way it's set up in the system you know
00:12:22
payment comes at the end of the month or
00:12:23
whatever their statement date is and
00:12:25
you're kind of swiping swiping swiping
00:12:27
especially if you don't have a budget
00:12:28
you're not really paying attention then
00:12:29
when that bill comes at the end of the
00:12:30
month and your you know the amount of
00:12:32
cash you have in the bank or wherever
00:12:34
it's sting isn't what the bill is then
00:12:37
it get then obviously the problem
00:12:38
started right and let's talk about that
00:12:40
for a second You' mentioned in your
00:12:43
initial story how you you had a budget
00:12:46
but you didn't really follow it and I
00:12:48
think I can relate to that in my early
00:12:51
days but tell us a little bit about what
00:12:53
what exactly does that mean what what
00:12:54
were the actions that you went through
00:12:56
so I had um I think it was an Excel file
00:13:00
and yeah each month I would fill out
00:13:02
what I thought my expenses were going to
00:13:03
be now I was grossly underestimating
00:13:06
what my expenses were going to be um and
00:13:09
so I basically filled it out but what I
00:13:11
didn't do was I never followed up on it
00:13:13
or anything so if a transaction happened
00:13:16
you know whatever it may have been maybe
00:13:18
I was paying my car loan or maybe I was
00:13:20
buying groceries or whatever it may have
00:13:21
been I was never really tracking what it
00:13:23
was and so I think I was getting kind of
00:13:25
that good feeling each month where I was
00:13:28
like oh I'm creting a budget and then
00:13:30
but then I would get the sick feeling at
00:13:32
the end of the month where I was like
00:13:33
okay I didn't follow this thing at all
00:13:34
and everything's a and everything's a
00:13:35
mess and so that's kind of that's more
00:13:38
or less what happened and it it went on
00:13:40
for a long time before I really sat down
00:13:43
and got it figured out yeah it's one of
00:13:45
the downsides about digital budgeting
00:13:48
especially that's exactly what I did
00:13:50
Adam for a couple years when I started
00:13:52
my budgeting habits I would budget at
00:13:55
the beginning of the month and You'
00:13:57
mention the the word that I see most
00:13:59
often in the personal finance space is
00:14:00
tracking tracking is the activity that
00:14:02
you do after the month is over or as the
00:14:05
month is going on to look backwards in
00:14:07
time and say what have I actually spent
00:14:10
and I was great at budgeting ahead of
00:14:12
time but because the it was uh it was
00:14:14
digital and not like an envelope system
00:14:16
with real cash I was allowed to
00:14:18
overspend my budget however I wanted to
00:14:21
and that was biting me for for months
00:14:23
and months and months until one day I
00:14:25
finally decided to budget the real way
00:14:27
which was tracking afterwards and and
00:14:29
really making sure that I wasn't
00:14:30
overspending that that budget yeah and I
00:14:33
think and the other part too just to
00:14:35
touch on that I think it's really easy
00:14:37
to kind of go down that slippery slope
00:14:39
when it's just you when it you know if
00:14:41
you're single or maybe you don't have a
00:14:43
support system or any accountability
00:14:45
part it's really easy because um you can
00:14:47
pretty much rationalize or Justify any
00:14:50
decision you make financially to
00:14:51
yourself because you're only
00:14:53
rationalizing it to yourself um what I
00:14:56
found now being married um is that I
00:14:58
can't easily do that I have to
00:15:01
rationalize or discuss these financial
00:15:03
decisions with another person in a
00:15:05
different set of mind so I think that's
00:15:07
one of the things I'll talk about on
00:15:08
Twitter you know from time to time is
00:15:10
that you know if you're struggling with
00:15:11
the budget it's to find some sort of
00:15:14
accountability partner or somebody that
00:15:15
can help you through it because it's
00:15:17
it's like you said it's easy to just
00:15:19
kind of set it and then not really
00:15:21
follow along just because you're the one
00:15:23
that's setting the budget and you're the
00:15:24
one that's making all the
00:15:26
decisions let's start talking about
00:15:28
let's start talking about the climb out
00:15:30
of debt because I know having talked to
00:15:32
you before Offline that your wife she
00:15:36
wasn't your wife then but played an
00:15:37
instrumental role in you ending up
00:15:40
getting out of debt so talk us through
00:15:42
that story yeah so what it happened was
00:15:45
we um she was applying for grad schools
00:15:49
in the United States I somewhat
00:15:51
selfishly I was living in Nevada since
00:15:53
2012 at that point it was 2019 then and
00:15:56
we were kind of she was looking at
00:15:58
schools where to go to and I basically
00:16:00
gave her a list of states that I would
00:16:02
move to I said because I understood
00:16:05
Nevada is a little bit expensive for
00:16:06
international students and I kind of
00:16:07
said here's where I'll go here's where I
00:16:09
won't go and Florida was on the all goto
00:16:12
list and so we ended up she got into
00:16:14
University South Florida we moved to
00:16:16
Tampa you know got an apartment all that
00:16:18
good stuff and we were just kind of
00:16:21
humming along you know buying stuff for
00:16:23
the apartment and I had no you know I
00:16:25
was fully aware of you know what I was
00:16:27
carrying credit card debt the personal
00:16:29
loan at that time but we weren't quite
00:16:32
at that stage yet in the relationship
00:16:34
where I was W ready to kind of open
00:16:36
everything up and be like this is what I
00:16:38
have um and so basically what had
00:16:41
happened we kind of got to a point we
00:16:42
were trying to figure out how to pay for
00:16:44
her fall tuition and it was I think it
00:16:47
was like eight grand or something like
00:16:49
that it it wasn't crazy money but it was
00:16:52
enough money that I knew was going to be
00:16:54
a little bit of a struggle to get um and
00:16:57
so basically at that point I you know I
00:16:59
was kind of looking for some lender
00:17:01
places and figuring out how I was gonna
00:17:03
how we were going to pay for that and uh
00:17:06
just so everybody's aware it's I
00:17:09
basically we were kind of doing a
00:17:10
payment plan system like I W because our
00:17:13
parents are from Brazil it was just they
00:17:14
couldn't get a loan in the United States
00:17:16
to pay for it and the conversion rates
00:17:17
are crazy so I was basically going to
00:17:19
pay for it and they were going to
00:17:20
reimburse what the what the rates were
00:17:22
but because of what my credit was and
00:17:25
just kind of how much debt I was
00:17:26
carrying I couldn't get an loan for that
00:17:28
amount
00:17:29
so then at that point and that just as a
00:17:32
person that was pretty demoralizing and
00:17:34
I kind of I felt really poorly about
00:17:36
myself just because you know I felt that
00:17:39
I was supposed to be the provider in
00:17:40
that regard and I couldn't um meet
00:17:43
fulfill my
00:17:44
obligations so once that was kind of
00:17:45
going on I kind of let her know what
00:17:47
what was happening and then we just sat
00:17:49
down and I said hey here's everything
00:17:51
and I showed her all the credit cards
00:17:53
what you know what I owed I showed her
00:17:54
my student loans showed her the personal
00:17:56
loan and one thing I was you know I
00:17:59
always applaud her for it is it's it
00:18:01
would have been incredibly easy for her
00:18:03
to just go into attack mode or you know
00:18:06
call me stupid or an idiot or whatever
00:18:08
which arguably I was like I'm not going
00:18:10
to deny that but what she basically did
00:18:12
in just her personality she goes all
00:18:14
right and she opened up she opened up I
00:18:16
think it was my laptop opened up a
00:18:17
Google doc thing and just started
00:18:19
writing a budget and just was like what
00:18:20
do you have to pay each month what's
00:18:22
your money and we started and our first
00:18:24
budget was literally just a Google sheet
00:18:26
that just had one uh one column set
00:18:28
income one column that set expenses and
00:18:30
we just started writing everything down
00:18:31
and from that point it just we became a
00:18:34
team financially weren't we weren't
00:18:36
married yet we didn't combine our
00:18:37
finances but she became at that point my
00:18:40
financial accountability partner just
00:18:42
for um trying to you know get out of the
00:18:45
mess we were having and because she knew
00:18:47
too it's like at that point we had
00:18:48
talked about marriage we we were pretty
00:18:50
sure that that's the route we were going
00:18:51
to go and you know I think she knew as
00:18:55
well that she wanted to get this cleaned
00:18:57
up too which ju which is right like I I
00:19:00
don't falter for that at all but so she
00:19:02
was just a a huge part and kind of like
00:19:05
you know once you get once you kind of
00:19:06
hit that quote unquote rock bottom and
00:19:08
you realize that something has to change
00:19:10
that's pretty much what it
00:19:12
was pick your pick your book on habits
00:19:16
pick your psychological study a lot of
00:19:18
them will talk about accountability
00:19:19
partners and how important it is to be
00:19:22
able to look someone else in the eye and
00:19:24
say yes I am on track or yes I am
00:19:26
improving and and make me hold myself
00:19:30
accountable and and I will hold myself
00:19:32
accountable to you so it's great that
00:19:33
you guys were able to find success with
00:19:36
that one thing you touched on Adam that
00:19:39
reminded me of something we talked about
00:19:41
on Sunday night is this idea of you know
00:19:45
when you needed to have the credit to
00:19:47
help her it wasn't there Y and it came
00:19:50
up in our car talk on Sunday night when
00:19:52
we were talking about car loans and how
00:19:54
a credit score can affect the interest
00:19:56
rate that you will have to pay on your
00:19:58
car car loan you don't know in life when
00:20:01
you'll need credit or you don't know in
00:20:03
life when your credit score will matter
00:20:06
and that's one of these reasons you know
00:20:07
that that lack of understanding of when
00:20:09
the unknown is coming is a great reason
00:20:12
to have your finances in
00:20:14
order yeah and I mean that's one thing
00:20:17
so you know back when I we were kind of
00:20:20
starting the debt-free process I was you
00:20:23
know I was big into Dave Ramsey I I love
00:20:25
that I listen to the podcast a lot I was
00:20:27
all about it and that's kind of one of
00:20:29
the one of the areas where I Veer off of
00:20:31
what he teaches or I just don't really
00:20:34
necessarily agree with because he you
00:20:35
know he teaches to cut up all credit
00:20:37
cards close all your account lines and
00:20:39
basically if your credit score dies off
00:20:41
you can go to zero and if you're going
00:20:42
to buy a house just do manual
00:20:44
underwriting but um just from watching
00:20:47
other YouTube videos of people who you
00:20:49
know have followed his advice from what
00:20:52
I've seen a couple videos where people
00:20:53
are just like that is the one thing I
00:20:55
wish I wouldn't have done is kind of
00:20:58
gone the I'm going to avoid credit at
00:21:00
all cost because there are scenarios
00:21:01
like that where you you never know when
00:21:04
you need it right I didn't realize
00:21:06
that's part of Dave Ramsey's advice it
00:21:08
makes sense now that you mention it I've
00:21:10
always heard the cut up your credit
00:21:12
cards and don't go into debt I have
00:21:14
always heard that but I never thought it
00:21:15
through and realized that one of the
00:21:17
ramifications of that is that your
00:21:19
credit score essentially disappears on
00:21:21
you yeah he he uh I don't it's I don't
00:21:24
think he has that like specifically
00:21:26
written out on any of his baby steps but
00:21:27
he aled about a lot in the podcast where
00:21:29
you know people would call in with that
00:21:31
fear you know it's I'm going to close on
00:21:32
my lines and I have no credit and then
00:21:34
he would kind of you know respond well I
00:21:36
don't have a credit score and
00:21:37
everything's fine and you you could just
00:21:39
do manual underwriting if you want a
00:21:41
house and from what I've heard manual
00:21:43
underwriting is just an absolute
00:21:45
headache way more information and stuff
00:21:47
you have to give to the banks to get it
00:21:48
done but yeah he um he talked about it
00:21:51
quite frequently in the podcast when I
00:21:52
was listening interesting now I just did
00:21:54
a quick Google Adam it says here that
00:21:56
Dam uh Dave Ramsey net worth is
00:21:58
approximately $200 million o so he might
00:22:02
be able to get away with not having a
00:22:04
credit card or a credit score unless
00:22:07
he's planning on you know buying the New
00:22:08
York Yankees or something like that I
00:22:10
think he fails to make that comparison
00:22:12
oh you don't have a 200 million net
00:22:13
worth all right yeah uh so you sat down
00:22:17
with your wife and in your wife's
00:22:18
Infinite Wisdom she said let's set out a
00:22:21
budget let's put a plan together from
00:22:24
that plan moving forward what did that
00:22:27
the next few months or the next few
00:22:29
years look like until you got to where
00:22:31
you are now well so then basically what
00:22:34
we did was um once we started budgeting
00:22:37
we basically did the snowball method we
00:22:39
you know picked something that had the
00:22:40
highest balance but technically did a
00:22:44
little out of order there was a a couple
00:22:46
student loans that had low interest that
00:22:47
were high balance and we kind of pushed
00:22:49
those to the side so we did we we
00:22:52
finished the credit cards we finished
00:22:54
the personal loans and we're were making
00:22:55
minimum payments on everything and then
00:22:58
obviously um by the time about February
00:23:01
rolled around I think we had pretty much
00:23:03
all the credit cards and personal loan
00:23:04
cleared and then it was basically just
00:23:06
student loans at that point and then in
00:23:08
March obviously when the world halted
00:23:10
and the federal government paused
00:23:12
student loans we you know we kind of
00:23:15
made that decision where you know this
00:23:17
this also gets debated on Twitter quite
00:23:19
a bit where it's you know do you invest
00:23:21
invest the money it's low interest
00:23:23
interest debt or do you pay it off and
00:23:25
in our mindset was kind of you know we
00:23:28
know in the future that we're going to
00:23:29
be bringing in um a healthy amount of
00:23:31
income regardless of how that is and so
00:23:34
for our perspective it was a lot more
00:23:36
psychological it was just we want to
00:23:38
close this door of debt of this personal
00:23:40
debt and get it over with and so as the
00:23:42
months rolled on obviously Florida was
00:23:44
in lockdown just like everybody else was
00:23:46
so it kind of helped uh it helped with
00:23:48
the budget a little bit we couldn't go
00:23:49
out and spend at restaurants or couldn't
00:23:51
go do activities really so that really
00:23:53
decreased that amount of money and just
00:23:54
everything we could we just kept piling
00:23:56
on and piling on um onto the student
00:23:59
loans and ended up uh I don't know how
00:24:02
in depth uh you want me to go with this
00:24:04
but then in August basically long story
00:24:08
short what had happened was USF went
00:24:10
full remote the campus our least our
00:24:13
yeah and our lease was ending and so we
00:24:15
kind of made the decision okay are we
00:24:16
going to stay in Florida where you're
00:24:18
just taking remote classes you know we
00:24:20
had friends out there but we didn't have
00:24:21
a ton of friend and a lot of connections
00:24:24
and basically what we end up deciding
00:24:26
was we're going to move back to Nevada
00:24:28
you're going to take all your classes
00:24:29
online um and we're just going to move
00:24:32
in with my parents we're not going to
00:24:33
you know have any real living expenses I
00:24:35
guess is the way to put it and yeah and
00:24:38
then basically move back in August
00:24:40
making payments slowly chunking we had
00:24:43
the we have our wedding coming up in
00:24:44
November so some payments started
00:24:46
showing up for that and basically what
00:24:48
we just did like kind of like how Dave
00:24:50
says I'm not I'm not marketing or
00:24:52
affiliating for Dave no worries but
00:24:55
basically what we did was we just kind
00:24:56
of paused our payments on the loans um
00:24:58
kept cash flowing in the wedding
00:25:00
expenses until those were taken care of
00:25:02
and then in March I believe March 15th
00:25:05
somewhere around then yeah we made our
00:25:07
made our final payment so it took about
00:25:09
took us about 15 months to get it all
00:25:11
done cool so it's 15 months and it was
00:25:14
sorry it was 34k 30 somewhere in that
00:25:17
range that yeah it was it was just under
00:25:19
32 just under 32k well congratulations
00:25:23
apprciate that that's awesome uh and I
00:25:26
think it's such a wise choice and not
00:25:28
necessarily an easy choice to look at
00:25:30
one another and say you know do we want
00:25:33
to move back do we want to move across
00:25:35
the country a that's a tough choice to
00:25:36
make do we want to move away from where
00:25:39
your wife's classes are where her
00:25:41
professors are that's a tough choice to
00:25:43
make do we want to move back in with
00:25:44
with my parents to save more money to
00:25:46
pay off this debt all tough choices but
00:25:49
I give you guys kudos for for making
00:25:51
those
00:25:51
decisions one thing Adam I wanted to
00:25:53
turn back and talk about you brought up
00:25:55
the infamous invest versus Pay down debt
00:25:59
debate where right the logic is you can
00:26:02
invest money and turn uh earn earn
00:26:06
Returns on that money at say like eight%
00:26:08
per year in the stock market or you can
00:26:10
pay down your debt which might only have
00:26:12
an interest rate of what what was your
00:26:14
interest rate roughly speaking so they
00:26:16
varied it was between three and I think
00:26:18
the highest one was around six so the
00:26:22
three to six range gotcha so so on a
00:26:25
mathematical point of view like a pure
00:26:27
if you were a spreadsheet and not a
00:26:28
human being the answer would be to
00:26:31
invest your money because you're getting
00:26:32
the higher rate of return but can you
00:26:35
walk us through even if it's just in 30
00:26:37
seconds can you walk us through your and
00:26:39
your wife's mindset in terms of you know
00:26:41
the choice to pay down the debt rather
00:26:43
than pursue the larger gains from
00:26:46
Investments yeah so I mean like my wife
00:26:48
and I were both ambitious people and the
00:26:50
way we saw the debt was more or less a
00:26:53
roadblock for some things it was going
00:26:54
to eat at our monthly you know monthly
00:26:57
cash we're going to have these payments
00:26:59
going on um so for us kind of like what
00:27:01
I mentioned is we really just wanted to
00:27:04
get that chapter done with and as we
00:27:06
were you know started and we're going
00:27:08
full on and just throwing money at it it
00:27:10
just to us it didn't really I guess in
00:27:13
our minds make sense to kind of stop
00:27:15
what we were doing to invest the money
00:27:17
we just really wanted the debt gone and
00:27:20
to play The Devil's Advocate for the
00:27:22
against the investing is we had really
00:27:26
no idea nobody does what the market is
00:27:28
going to do at that time and so you know
00:27:31
if it was a fiveyear six-year window
00:27:34
where we were going to be you know we
00:27:35
had A1 $200,000 in debt it may have
00:27:37
changed our mindset a little bit but we
00:27:39
knew it was going to be less than a year
00:27:41
and so there is a slim chance I mean
00:27:43
looking back obviously that would not
00:27:44
have happened but there's a slim chance
00:27:45
that we would have been investing this
00:27:46
money by the time we got to where we
00:27:48
were ready to make you know the final
00:27:50
payment or something nearby that the
00:27:51
money could have been less um there was
00:27:54
always that possibility and so I just
00:27:55
think with a short amount of time time
00:27:57
we had it just we were just like all
00:27:59
right let's just get it over with and
00:28:00
then we'll focus on investing and saving
00:28:02
once this is
00:28:03
done there's a huge psychological
00:28:06
component to what you said and I wrote
00:28:08
down this quote Adam you said you wanted
00:28:10
to get the chapter done with and that
00:28:13
has such a big effect for so many of us
00:28:15
we want to put a stamp on something and
00:28:17
say that is done and now I'm ready to
00:28:19
move on to the next thing whereas
00:28:22
carrying that debt for a longer period
00:28:24
of time because on the side you want to
00:28:26
be investing your money
00:28:28
maybe it would have worked out better
00:28:29
for you mathematically but holding kind
00:28:31
of it's like juggling all those balls in
00:28:33
the air keeping all those plates
00:28:34
spinning to use a couple different
00:28:36
metaphors that's mental work that a lot
00:28:38
of us don't want to necessarily have to
00:28:40
do closing the chapter reduces that
00:28:43
mental work and makes us feel better
00:28:45
about our
00:28:46
decisions yeah and it's the other key to
00:28:49
that is it it would require a lot of
00:28:51
discipline to be continuingly
00:28:54
continuously investing as you're paying
00:28:56
it off because now you have that cash
00:28:58
and if you're not Auto putting it to
00:29:00
your Investments or whatever it's easy
00:29:01
to just start spending that and then
00:29:02
you're basically you're in the same
00:29:04
situation where you're making minimum
00:29:05
payments and you know then that money is
00:29:07
just kind of slipping through your
00:29:09
through your grasps right not saying
00:29:10
that not saying that'd be the case for
00:29:11
everybody but that is a possibility that
00:29:13
could happen yeah requires discipline
00:29:15
totally requires discipline let's
00:29:18
transition Adam and talk through I mean
00:29:20
you already have talked through some
00:29:21
some very actionable steps that people
00:29:23
can take but when it comes to the basics
00:29:26
of money whether it's budgeting uh
00:29:28
spending saving investing I'm curious do
00:29:31
you use any specific tools now do you
00:29:34
have any specific habits any any major
00:29:36
lessons learned that you're still
00:29:38
carrying forward with your with your
00:29:40
personal finances today yeah so I mean
00:29:42
like with the budgets the one thing I'll
00:29:44
preach to the end is that like the
00:29:46
sustainability aspect of it is so
00:29:48
crucial because you can you I mean you
00:29:51
can budget and restrict yourself to
00:29:53
death but if you're not going to be able
00:29:54
to sustain it for the long term then I'd
00:29:56
argue it's not really worth it because
00:29:58
you're going to do it for a little bit
00:29:59
you're going to get frustrated you're
00:30:00
going to quit and I try and harp on that
00:30:04
you know budgets are only as restricting
00:30:06
or restrictive as you allow them to be I
00:30:08
mean you can you're in control you or
00:30:10
your wife or whoever you're with you
00:30:11
guys are in control and now don't go
00:30:13
crazy and you know not invest anything
00:30:15
and never save anything and just spend
00:30:16
it all but really to you you know it's
00:30:20
it's it's in your your power to make
00:30:22
these decisions and I guess when it
00:30:24
comes to that you know there's obviously
00:30:26
your normal expenses you know you have
00:30:29
your rent your mortgage maybe your food
00:30:31
and some of those things but it's always
00:30:33
important too to make sure there's at
00:30:34
least a little bit of room for fun you
00:30:36
know quote unquote fun money or you know
00:30:38
whatever your guilty pleasure or
00:30:40
whatever it may be you know Netflix
00:30:42
Spotify maybe like going and get ice
00:30:44
cream on Fridays something like that
00:30:46
keeping those in there and then the I
00:30:49
guess the lesson I would put in it is
00:30:52
that what I've learned is it doesn't
00:30:54
really need to be anything complex like
00:30:56
your budget budg can be super simple and
00:30:58
I think that sometimes people will get
00:31:01
caught up thinking that your budget
00:31:02
needs to have all these charts that are
00:31:03
tracking everything and you know your
00:31:05
cash flow and yeah those are good things
00:31:07
to have but they're not essential
00:31:09
basically like you're like like how our
00:31:12
budget is it's still largely is the same
00:31:14
it's you really only need an income and
00:31:15
an expense column and then that's that's
00:31:19
that's where I go with
00:31:21
budgets room for fun is huge one of the
00:31:24
biggest myths I think that I hear from
00:31:26
people people on the outside looking in
00:31:29
is a your budget seems very
00:31:33
restrictive uh it seems like a habit
00:31:35
that I would never want to keep up with
00:31:36
in the first place and then it seems
00:31:39
like you don't do anything fun right
00:31:41
you're pinching pennies and and that's
00:31:44
just simply not the case at least for my
00:31:46
budget and it sounds like for your
00:31:47
budget too I have lots of fun on my
00:31:49
budget the point is I plan for it ahead
00:31:52
of time I set aside money for that fund
00:31:55
I don't just spend on a whim on fun and
00:31:58
then after the fact I look back and I do
00:32:00
the tracking exercise that we talked
00:32:02
about before and I say how much did I
00:32:04
actually spend and do I need to move
00:32:06
money around to make everything
00:32:07
reconcile after the fact that's all
00:32:10
still have tons of fun it's not
00:32:11
restrictive it's just that I I track it
00:32:14
yeah yeah exactly and that's one of the
00:32:16
things that you'll hear about on Twitter
00:32:17
just specifically talking about one line
00:32:19
item budget is the start is the coffee
00:32:21
thing buying Starbucks my wife she loves
00:32:24
Starbucks she gets a strawberry o
00:32:26
Refresher
00:32:27
I very frequently that's but that's one
00:32:30
of those things it's like we've agreed
00:32:31
on it she gets it it's guilt-free
00:32:33
spending you know I'm never going to
00:32:34
harp on her for spending it and so it's
00:32:35
just little items like that that you
00:32:37
know instead of feeling guilty or over
00:32:39
spending you you plan for it and you
00:32:41
roll with it yeah it's too bad that
00:32:44
Susie Orman and then I think his name is
00:32:46
David Bach they both wrote books where
00:32:49
latte was in the title and and you know
00:32:52
both those books sold hundreds of
00:32:54
thousands of copies because they're both
00:32:55
famous Financial writers
00:32:57
and now it's just like the most popular
00:32:59
myth in personal finance that lattes and
00:33:01
avocado toast are preventing people like
00:33:04
you and me Adam from ever retiring yeah
00:33:07
it's an old tired old tired myth you
00:33:10
mentioned one thing Adam there I thought
00:33:11
it was great it reminded me of a Tim
00:33:14
Ferris podcast I once listened to that
00:33:16
then inspired me to go around and turn
00:33:18
around and write a blog post the most
00:33:21
important aspect of a habit is your
00:33:24
ability to adhere to that habit you
00:33:27
called it sustainability the the ability
00:33:29
to sustain that habit and Tim Ferris
00:33:31
said you know is it any good to start
00:33:34
running five miles a day if three days
00:33:37
in you realize your shins are killing
00:33:39
you and you don't run anymore or would
00:33:41
you just be better off saying I'm gonna
00:33:42
run two miles a day and make that my
00:33:45
habit and actually do it the two mile
00:33:48
habit is better similar with budgets
00:33:50
like you just said the simple budget if
00:33:53
that's the one that you can stick to is
00:33:54
infinitely better than a complex budget
00:33:57
that you're just going to
00:33:58
quit
00:34:01
agreed Adam how are you working with
00:34:03
others you have all this knowledge and
00:34:04
you have all this really good experience
00:34:06
you have a great story that people are
00:34:08
following so how are you working with
00:34:10
others or putting together some sort of
00:34:12
project or program in the future I'm
00:34:14
just curious what what you have planned
00:34:17
Yeah so basically right now the large
00:34:19
amount of my time when it comes to
00:34:21
helping other people it's spent on
00:34:22
Twitter um I have started working
00:34:25
through emails basically have been
00:34:27
slowly kind of building email list I was
00:34:29
sending out a Weekly Newsletter but um
00:34:32
kind of some other priorities showed up
00:34:33
and that's kind of taken a little bit of
00:34:34
the back seat but I'm trying to get that
00:34:36
reamped I recently started it this might
00:34:40
sound a little funny but I started a
00:34:42
Facebook group where it's basically a
00:34:44
personal finance group and I've been
00:34:46
trying to kind of get people into there
00:34:48
so at that point you know with Twitter
00:34:51
you're sending a tweet out people are
00:34:52
replying and you're kind of replying to
00:34:54
every response but the point of the
00:34:56
group was that you could kind of build a
00:35:00
community and then it wouldn't
00:35:02
necessarily require you to be there all
00:35:05
the time answering all the questions or
00:35:06
whatnot you could have a lot of the
00:35:08
other community members answering
00:35:10
questions or you know asking questions
00:35:12
whatever whatever they needed so doing
00:35:14
that and then I'll tease a little bit I
00:35:17
am working on another project I'm not
00:35:19
going to give away too much too many
00:35:21
details but probably in the next two
00:35:25
months that's probably what it's going
00:35:27
to be around two months it'll be I'll
00:35:29
start uh hyping it up a little more as
00:35:31
we get closer but just stay tuned for
00:35:34
that I will that sounds exciting you got
00:35:36
me uh you've got me enticed I'll stay
00:35:39
tuned the Facebook group that's a great
00:35:42
point I made a Facebook group I have a
00:35:45
Facebook page I should say for the best
00:35:49
interest I find it I think it's too
00:35:51
narrow in focus and so people look at it
00:35:54
and they're like I don't really want to
00:35:55
follow this guy's business
00:35:57
but I think if I had opened it up and
00:35:59
I'm I'm interested in your Facebook
00:36:00
group because it sounds like you have
00:36:01
opened it up just to a personal finance
00:36:05
discussion group and I think is that
00:36:07
that's the kind of thing that sounds
00:36:08
like to me it could build momentum and
00:36:10
could end up really helping people so
00:36:12
I'm interested I I'll look into that
00:36:13
Adam I I'll join your group I I
00:36:15
appreciate that okay Adam so this is the
00:36:18
this is the one the one question we got
00:36:19
from Twitter it's when are we all
00:36:22
meeting up in Vegas again from Stephen
00:36:24
wealthy that is a good question
00:36:27
that is a good question I uh I would
00:36:30
prefer we wait a couple months before it
00:36:32
cools for it to cool down it was it was
00:36:35
blistering when we were down there last
00:36:37
weekend Kelly my girlfriend is there
00:36:40
right now as we are speaking and I think
00:36:43
it's been 110 plus each of the days
00:36:46
she's been there which here on the East
00:36:49
Coast we always say about the West Coast
00:36:50
like oh but it's a dry heat in the
00:36:52
desert it's kind of this you know in in
00:36:54
quotes with a smile on her face I don't
00:36:56
care if it's dry heat 110 sounds pretty
00:36:58
hot to me yeah it's uh it's it does the
00:37:02
dryness helps but it's still uh when
00:37:05
when it's you know nighttime 10 o'clock
00:37:07
at night it's still 105 plus it's it's
00:37:10
intense that's
00:37:11
crazy so someday I'd love to go to Vegas
00:37:14
I've never been
00:37:16
there next question though what's the
00:37:19
last material object or personal luxury
00:37:21
that you spent $100 or more
00:37:24
on so that's a good question I had to
00:37:27
got to think about that one I would
00:37:29
guess it's going to or what it was was a
00:37:32
travel golf bag when I went down to
00:37:35
Scottdale in
00:37:36
June that was I'm not a huge I do like
00:37:40
the little five5 $10 purchases it's not
00:37:42
as common I'll get over the $100 Mark so
00:37:45
yeah travel golf bag gotcha are you a a
00:37:48
big golfer do you golf a lot I don't
00:37:50
golf as much as I would like to but um
00:37:53
you know if I keep it under a 100 I'm
00:37:55
pretty pleased nice nice that's better
00:37:57
than
00:37:58
me what's a good habit that you're
00:38:01
trying to form or a bad habit that you
00:38:03
are trying to break so I just recently
00:38:06
started trying to run before work each
00:38:09
morning so I've changed my alarm clock
00:38:11
to wake me up about uh about 30 minutes
00:38:14
earlier so I can run about a mile or a
00:38:16
mile and a half uh haven't been as
00:38:18
successful as I would like to be but
00:38:20
I'll just keep at it and I'll hopefully
00:38:22
the snoozes will get less and less uh
00:38:25
The Habit I'm trying to break would
00:38:27
probably be on the flip side of going to
00:38:29
bed
00:38:30
earlier um I like to be in bed you know
00:38:33
the 9:45 10 range like under the sheets
00:38:36
ready to go uh but just with work and
00:38:39
how life's been especially with my
00:38:40
wife's work she works a lot uh we've
00:38:42
been getting closer to the 11 o'clock
00:38:45
range so definitely trying to make that
00:38:46
a little
00:38:47
earlier sleep is huge I'm one of those
00:38:51
people that I cannot operate if I don't
00:38:54
have good
00:38:55
sleep and uh and I'm not always good at
00:38:58
going to bed on time or falling asleep
00:39:00
quickly so I'm right there with you
00:39:01
that's such an important habit and the
00:39:03
more I listen to experts talk and the
00:39:05
more kind of podcasts I listen to where
00:39:07
they bring on Sleep Experts it sounds
00:39:09
like the science is really starting to
00:39:11
build up to say like your sleep is one
00:39:13
of the most important things that you
00:39:14
can focus on oh yeah you need need to
00:39:17
recharge it's incredibly important yeah
00:39:20
and you know not a scientist here I'm
00:39:22
just a guy I'm just a guy with a podcast
00:39:24
that talks about money but someone who
00:39:26
listens to experts talk I believe that
00:39:29
is what they're saying uh what's your
00:39:31
favorite Financial tool Adam or or app
00:39:34
or service that you use and why so I
00:39:38
would probably have to say mint um the
00:39:41
reason why I like mint is just because
00:39:42
it tracks everything in one place and
00:39:45
you know whether it be my Vanguard
00:39:47
account or coinbase I know there's
00:39:49
really high fees there but coin I still
00:39:51
have coinbase and you know you have the
00:39:53
two- Factor authentication it just kind
00:39:55
of it's a little bit of a
00:39:57
not annoying but it's just a little bit
00:39:58
of a hassle logging into each thing so I
00:40:00
just really like mint because
00:40:01
everything's in one central location so
00:40:03
as soon as I sign in it's got all my
00:40:05
accounts there for me excellent and
00:40:07
mint's still free right it was free when
00:40:09
I was using it is it still free still
00:40:11
free
00:40:13
awesome and last question Adam if you
00:40:16
had a billboard and you could share any
00:40:18
message with the world what would you
00:40:20
put on that
00:40:23
billboard I would say that it's Never
00:40:26
Too
00:40:27
Late partly because that can apply to so
00:40:30
many different things so whether that be
00:40:33
finances you know your health a
00:40:35
relationship you're trying to mend
00:40:37
whatever it may be just because that can
00:40:39
be so open-ended it could anybody
00:40:41
reading it it could apply to something
00:40:43
in their
00:40:44
lives I love that
00:40:46
one I really do so Adam if anybody wants
00:40:49
to get a hold of you or wants to follow
00:40:51
along on your projects or they want to
00:40:53
learn about what's coming in two months
00:40:55
that we're all excited for how can they
00:40:57
reach you how can they follow you well
00:40:59
so you can find me on Twitter that's
00:41:01
where I'm the most active my handle is
00:41:03
Adam sha last name's sh o u p and then
00:41:08
on there if you really want to get
00:41:09
connected which I'd appreciate on my
00:41:11
location there is a link you can click
00:41:15
and basically provide your email and
00:41:17
I'll give you a free budget basically
00:41:19
I've got a you know a bone structure of
00:41:22
a template that basically just requires
00:41:24
your inputs you can do on your own and
00:41:26
then if you want to join the Facebook
00:41:28
group the name is called personal
00:41:30
finance Community hyphen debt and
00:41:35
investing excellent and I'll I'll make
00:41:37
sure to throw those links into the show
00:41:39
notes that was fantastic Adam thank you
00:41:42
so much for coming on to the best
00:41:43
interest podcast with us thanks for
00:41:45
having me
00:41:51
Jesse another huge shout out to Adam
00:41:53
thank you Adam for coming on to the best
00:41:55
interest podcast for this episode I have
00:41:58
included all of Adam's links in the show
00:42:00
notes so make sure to go give him a
00:42:02
follow check out that Facebook page Adam
00:42:05
is a great person to to know to bounce
00:42:08
ideas off of he's a great guy if you
00:42:10
want to reach out to me my email is
00:42:12
Jesse best bestin interest. blog on
00:42:15
social media the easiest place to find
00:42:17
me is on Twitter where my username is
00:42:20
bestore JC I also have a small but
00:42:23
growing Instagram account where my
00:42:25
account is theore bestore interest and
00:42:29
if you find this valuable and you want
00:42:31
to give back I have three easy options
00:42:33
for you to do so all free for you you
00:42:36
can subscribe to the podcast or you can
00:42:39
leave a rating or a review of the
00:42:41
podcast uh for example Ashman Scoops
00:42:44
wrote in and said Jesse is an incredibly
00:42:47
sharp guy the content he creates for his
00:42:49
best interest podcast and blog is very
00:42:52
informative and insightful he's got
00:42:54
stuff for everyone from the amateur
00:42:56
investor to the seasoned Financial
00:42:58
expert highly recommended thank you
00:43:01
Ashman Scoops I think you are an
00:43:03
incredibly sharp Guai thank you for
00:43:05
those kind words we can continue to
00:43:08
invest in one another because as Ben
00:43:09
Franklin said an investment in knowledge
00:43:11
pays the best interest sharing with
00:43:13
others is investing in their knowledge
00:43:16
so thank you all for listening to
00:43:18
episode 26 of the best interest
00:43:25
podcast
00:43:33
one thing Adam that you touched on as
00:43:35
well is the classic invest versus paid
00:43:39
debt debate yeah I'm gonna pause here I
00:43:43
don't know if you could hear the fire
00:43:44
engines in the background there's a a
00:43:46
fire truck I'm just gonna give it like
00:43:47
10 seconds to yeah no worries pass and
00:43:50
then I'll just I'll I'll do another
00:43:51
intro to the invest versus pay debt can
00:43:53
you're Dave fuming already
00:43:58
dude I gotta believe in his heart of
00:44:00
hearts that Dave is like yes I believe
00:44:04
my numbers and I know the numbers make
00:44:06
sense but whatever you got to do to help
00:44:08
yourself sleep at night is right and
00:44:10
it's just like his his his Twitter
00:44:11
Persona is like but the numbers yeah
00:44:14
yeah I give I give him credit he does
00:44:16
not back down yeah no he
00:44:19
doesn't
