00:00:00
This is kind of the definition of a
00:00:01
quagmire and that is I'm not sure at
00:00:04
this point he has any choice but to put
00:00:06
boots on the ground. I would argue at
00:00:08
this point Cara Iran is winning.
00:00:16
>> Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York
00:00:18
Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast
00:00:20
Network. I'm Carara Swisser
00:00:21
>> and I'm Scott Callaway.
00:00:23
>> Scott, I have officially left your
00:00:25
apartment in New York State.
00:00:26
>> Oh, you moved into your new place? Yes,
00:00:28
I bought a small apartment in Brooklyn
00:00:30
in
00:00:31
>> Parkrooklyn where all the kid core kids
00:00:33
are.
00:00:33
>> I have to say I enjoyed it. We went this
00:00:35
weekend went to IKEA for 17 hours which
00:00:38
was fun. Actually bought a range of
00:00:40
inexpensive furniture and it's very
00:00:43
lovely actually. We we we it's very
00:00:45
nice. I miss you but I have to move on
00:00:49
from our relation our housing
00:00:50
relationship.
00:00:51
>> So do you know how many times I've been
00:00:52
to Brooklyn in 25 years?
00:00:54
>> How many?
00:00:55
>> Twice. both times to be to go to the so
00:00:57
house there. There's no reason to ever
00:00:58
live the island unless you're going to
00:01:00
JFK or LaGuardia.
00:01:01
>> It's nice. We're very well known in Park
00:01:03
Slope. I can tell you that. I got to
00:01:04
stop.
00:01:04
>> I don't doubt it. Royalty in Brooklyn.
00:01:07
Jesus Christ. I can't even imagine.
00:01:09
>> Hi, Cara. Welcome to Brooklyn.
00:01:11
>> I know. That's exactly what happened. It
00:01:13
was two other things. Let me just say
00:01:15
two other phenomena. So, I have all
00:01:17
these books that I get for my podcast
00:01:19
and probably you do too, right? I I I
00:01:21
cannot get rid of them here. I put them
00:01:23
out on the stoop in Brooklyn. they were
00:01:24
gone. Like I have to say I get all these
00:01:27
free books and they're good books and
00:01:29
they're all interesting, but I have to I
00:01:30
like the whole culture of people walking
00:01:33
by and taking things and giving away
00:01:35
things. It's really nice. So yeah, there
00:01:37
you have it. We are now officially semi
00:01:40
not we don't live there, but it's nice
00:01:42
and anyone can stay. All you listeners
00:01:44
can stay at my Brooklyn place. No, you
00:01:46
can stay. I extend an invitation to you,
00:01:48
Scott Galloway.
00:01:50
>> Happen. Um so gonna happen because it
00:01:52
has a key of furniture. That's why
00:01:54
>> uh you went to IKEA.
00:01:55
>> Yeah, I love IKEA.
00:01:56
>> Um don't uh why why do you like IKEA?
00:02:00
>> Uh cuz it's cuz actually it's f it's
00:02:02
it's perfectly nice stuff. If you get
00:02:04
the the more the slightly more expensive
00:02:06
stuff there, it's fine. And it's it I
00:02:08
don't want I don't want to buy more. I
00:02:10
have really nice furniture in where I
00:02:12
live and I just don't need more
00:02:14
furniture.
00:02:15
>> The when I was there, the IKEA sales
00:02:17
lady wanted to have sex with me, but all
00:02:19
I wanted was a was one night stand.
00:02:22
get it.
00:02:23
>> I don't believe you have an IKEA joke at
00:02:24
the ready.
00:02:25
>> I don't think I've ever been to an IKEA.
00:02:27
It's a phenomena. It's um
00:02:29
>> I still was making a furniture all night
00:02:32
long.
00:02:33
>> I don't know. IKEA for me is is like uh
00:02:37
a porn video and that is I'll never be
00:02:39
able to do the same thing at home. It
00:02:41
just it looks different at IKEA than in
00:02:43
my own home when I try it.
00:02:45
>> Yeah. Well, I'm a lesbian so I can
00:02:46
assemble things. Well, I'm very good
00:02:48
with that.
00:02:49
>> You're
00:02:50
>> Are you building a wood canoe in your
00:02:52
living room?
00:02:52
>> I did. I have to build this bed. I gave
00:02:54
up on it.
00:02:54
>> Woodwork.
00:02:55
>> Yeah. The other thing I did, and I want
00:02:56
to recommend I went to my friend Sean
00:02:58
Hayes's show called The Unknown. And
00:03:00
it's a little bit about internet. It's a
00:03:03
little bit about It's really good. It's
00:03:05
a one-man show. Uh it's a M I think it's
00:03:07
by David Kale, I think, is the
00:03:09
playright. What a wonderful show. I have
00:03:11
to We had a really nice time on this
00:03:12
Broadway.
00:03:13
>> It's off Broadway. He started off
00:03:15
Broadway. I recommend it. The unknown.
00:03:16
My Mexican friend
00:03:18
>> builds all my IKEA furniture. I call him
00:03:20
my instruction I call him my instruction
00:03:22
Manuel.
00:03:24
>> Oh my god. Just go. Okay. All right.
00:03:28
Anyway,
00:03:29
>> at least upgrade to At least upgrade to
00:03:31
West Elm.
00:03:32
>> I have Westm stuff. I have I have uh the
00:03:35
other one.
00:03:36
>> Position the brand of West Elm. It's one
00:03:37
of my first clients.
00:03:38
>> I like Westm actually. They make I have
00:03:40
several I have some I have a West Elm
00:03:41
bed here and I love it. I have
00:03:43
>> You know what the strategy was? Well,
00:03:44
I'm patting myself in the back. I my
00:03:46
first strategy engagement.
00:03:48
>> Oh yeah.
00:03:48
>> Uh out of business school was helping
00:03:50
position the Old Navy brand.
00:03:52
>> And it was pretty easy. 80% of the gap
00:03:54
for 50% of the price. And so my big
00:03:55
insight at William Sonoma 5 years later
00:03:57
was
00:03:58
>> West Elm 80% of Pottery Barn for 50% of
00:04:02
the price.
00:04:02
>> Oh, interesting. It's nicer than Pottery
00:04:04
Barn. I think Pottery Barn sort of lost
00:04:06
the
00:04:06
>> West Elm is the fastest zero to a
00:04:08
billion dollar brands in history have
00:04:10
been that axiom. 80% of the 80% of the
00:04:13
kind of industry leader for 50% of the
00:04:15
price whether it's Southwest or Old Navy
00:04:18
or West Elm.
00:04:19
>> It's West's a little nicer. And then
00:04:20
there's the one room and board which is
00:04:22
nice. I get a lot
00:04:23
>> No, they do a great job.
00:04:23
>> They do be I get a lot of their stuff.
00:04:25
>> Not nearly as successful financially
00:04:27
though.
00:04:27
>> Yeah. And then what's the one that has
00:04:29
uh the big air couch? The big uh
00:04:32
>> Well, Restoration Hardware.
00:04:33
>> Restoration Hardware. I have a that's
00:04:35
that has that has all of my stuff in San
00:04:37
Francisco. I got Restoration. Well,
00:04:39
Gary, I I would I used to be very into
00:04:41
merchandising because I was in that
00:04:42
business. The greatest, in my opinion,
00:04:43
the greatest merchant of the last 20
00:04:44
years is is uh Gary Freriedman, the CEO
00:04:47
of Restoration Hardware.
00:04:48
>> Yeah, he had seen Cloud Couch. It's a
00:04:50
cloud couch.
00:04:51
>> Uh he and I he and I are friends. He he
00:04:53
gave me a tour of their space in um
00:04:56
>> in the meat packing district. They It
00:04:58
was really interesting in the
00:04:59
restaurant, which I think does more
00:05:00
dollars per square foot than the store
00:05:02
combined, but they don't serve alcohol
00:05:04
cuz he said he wanted a safe place for
00:05:06
women to come and just hang out. And
00:05:08
then when when people drink alcohol,
00:05:09
they get rowdy and obnoxious, which I
00:05:11
thought was interesting. They have a
00:05:12
beautiful alcohol
00:05:13
>> in Manhattan, like go to lunch there.
00:05:15
It's nice. Anyway, I have different
00:05:17
levels of furniture depending on the
00:05:18
house. San Francisco is all restoration
00:05:20
hardware. Yeah. Anyway, all right. We'll
00:05:22
move on because we got to get to the We
00:05:24
love furniture
00:05:26
day. No, no. I go I went to IKEA. I I
00:05:29
assembled furniture this weekend.
00:05:30
Anyway, before we get to the news, uh
00:05:33
this weekend around 8 million One thing
00:05:35
I didn't do, I didn't go to a No Kings
00:05:37
rally over because I was assembling a
00:05:38
key of furniture. Over 3,300 events
00:05:41
around the world. I went to the last
00:05:43
one, I think, over 200,000 people
00:05:45
attended the flagship rally in
00:05:46
Minnesota. Incredible crowds. Some signs
00:05:49
uh stand out, including you can't bomb
00:05:51
away bomb your way out of the Epstein
00:05:53
files. My country went to hell and all I
00:05:54
got was this lousy ballroom. and balls
00:05:57
for grabs with a sign that said free
00:05:58
balls for Republicans.
00:06:02
They were I love the signs. I you know
00:06:04
it was really a lot of people. Eight
00:06:05
million people. That's a lot of people.
00:06:07
>> I'm in London. Although they did have a
00:06:08
protest here which I did which I didn't
00:06:10
go to but
00:06:11
>> I don't know. I did what all lazy people
00:06:13
do to virtue signal. I reposted Yeah.
00:06:15
>> I reposted other people sacrificing.
00:06:17
>> No, it was they looked wonderful and
00:06:19
festive. I thought Bruce Spring I
00:06:20
thought they were also did the messaging
00:06:22
was excellent. I thought it was
00:06:23
affordability. It's about no kids. It
00:06:27
was everybody has all the progressives
00:06:29
have modulated in a way that I think is
00:06:31
very attractive. Very they're moving
00:06:33
into the James Terico version of
00:06:36
Democrats, right? The hey, what are we
00:06:38
going to hear to help you affordability?
00:06:40
We want a thing. And the one thing I
00:06:43
really like, there was a picture, a
00:06:44
beautiful picture of Joan Bayz and um
00:06:47
>> uh Jane Fonda that was with gray hair
00:06:50
together was gorgeous. I thought that
00:06:52
was I just thought it was visually very
00:06:54
attractive. I think there is a real
00:06:56
movement of people of all these
00:06:57
elections happening and people are so
00:07:00
sick of feeling bad and feeling like
00:07:03
everything's a grift. It just feels it
00:07:05
there was definitely a tide. I don't
00:07:08
know if these protests help, but I like
00:07:09
them. I think they're
00:07:10
>> supposedly Well, first off, it just
00:07:12
feels and I say this all the time, but
00:07:14
my buddy Dan Harris action absorbs
00:07:16
anxiety. It feels really good to do
00:07:19
things with other people. And Timothy
00:07:21
Snder says that protests start to build
00:07:23
an infrastructure for organization and
00:07:26
taking names and people get invested in
00:07:27
it. So they want to turn out again and
00:07:29
they want to register people to vote.
00:07:31
Also supposedly the supposedly there's a
00:07:34
tipping point where if you get 3 and a
00:07:35
half% of the population to demonstrate
00:07:37
that usually conotes change. So this
00:07:39
wasn't that cuz that would be I think
00:07:40
about 11 or 12 million people. Just some
00:07:42
data here. The October pro protest drew
00:07:46
roughly 7 million and uh Saturday's
00:07:49
turnout was nine million. So it's
00:07:51
building. And what's interesting or the
00:07:52
most piece of data I thought is that
00:07:54
twothirds of the RSVPs came from outside
00:07:57
major urban centers including
00:07:59
>> including conservativeleaning states
00:08:02
such as Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Utah,
00:08:04
South Dakota, Louisiana.
00:08:05
>> Yeah. Those protests that takes a thing
00:08:08
for people to do things like that there
00:08:09
like the villages. Did you see all the
00:08:11
little villages carts? Yeah. Yeah. That
00:08:13
was kind of cool.
00:08:14
>> What is traditionally very conservative
00:08:16
and also the kind of the flagship was at
00:08:18
uh Minneapolis where almost a quarter of
00:08:21
a million people turned out. Uh
00:08:23
Springsteen performed. You mentioned
00:08:25
Joan Baz and Jane Fonda, Maggie Rogers
00:08:27
and Senator.
00:08:30
>> So just some context, the Women's March
00:08:32
in January 2017,
00:08:34
previously considered the largest single
00:08:36
day protest in US history, drew an
00:08:38
estimated uh 3.3 to 56 5.6 million
00:08:41
people. So this was bigger. The BLM
00:08:44
protest in June of 2020 drew an
00:08:46
estimated 15 to 26 million people, but
00:08:48
over several weeks, but that was spread
00:08:50
across multiple days. So if the 9
00:08:53
million uh person turnout estimate hold,
00:08:56
Saturday's protest would be the largest
00:08:57
single day demonstration in American
00:08:59
history.
00:09:00
>> People are tired and they want to do
00:09:01
something. And it's not it's not
00:09:02
hopeless. I went to the women's one. I
00:09:04
actually I took my sons to that. I made
00:09:07
them wear [ __ ] hats. Well, that's the
00:09:08
way it goes. Anyway, it was we had
00:09:10
actually had a wonderful time. I like
00:09:12
doing things like that with my kids
00:09:13
because they can see things in action.
00:09:15
Okay, moving on. Uh, President Trump
00:09:17
says the US is in serious discussions
00:09:20
with the new regime in Iran, but he's
00:09:21
also threatening to completely destroy
00:09:23
key energy sites if a deal is not
00:09:24
reached. That's a nice way to negotiate.
00:09:27
This is the Pentagon preparing for what
00:09:28
could be weeks of ground operations in
00:09:30
Iran, according to the Washington Post.
00:09:32
Total number of US troops in the Middle
00:09:34
East are now 50,000 around 50,000. That
00:09:36
is insane amounts of people. roughly
00:09:38
10,000 higher than typical levels. Uh
00:09:41
the Iranian military is warning that any
00:09:43
US occupation would lead to captivity,
00:09:45
dismemberment, and disappearance. It is
00:09:47
worrisome with all those people there.
00:09:49
There's always something bad going to
00:09:50
happen. And as the war drags on, markets
00:09:52
are sliding down with NASDAQ and Dow
00:09:53
falling into correction territory last
00:09:55
week and the S&P down about 7%. Markets
00:09:58
are sort of a a trailing indicator of
00:10:00
some of this stuff, I think. But um I
00:10:02
think it it's creates a jittery feeling
00:10:04
just because of the shifting back and
00:10:05
forth. And if you noticed, a lot of
00:10:07
Trump people, especially Marco Rubio and
00:10:09
JD Vance, were not on any of the Sunday
00:10:11
shows. They're avoiding all the cabinet
00:10:13
members are avoiding the Sunday shows.
00:10:16
Um, I had a really interesting interview
00:10:19
before I went to New York with Tom
00:10:20
Tillis, which I think you should all
00:10:22
listen to. It's up today. I mean, he was
00:10:24
expressing great distaste for this whole
00:10:26
action. Um, we had a he's a obviously a
00:10:30
very conservative senator from North
00:10:31
Carolina. He's leaving Congress so he
00:10:33
feels like he can say whatever he wants,
00:10:34
which he did. Um, so what do you think's
00:10:37
happening here, Scott? I mean, the back
00:10:39
and forth and the people are sort of
00:10:42
trying to get out of the Trump blast
00:10:44
zone on this situation. I'm sorry to use
00:10:45
that metaphor, but
00:10:49
>> well, to say it's complicated is an
00:10:50
understatement, but I'm one of the
00:10:52
people that would argue that
00:10:54
>> we've been at war with Iran for the last
00:10:56
47 years. The first act of this regime
00:10:58
in 1979 was to take Americans hostage.
00:11:01
The question is, is this escalation in
00:11:03
the war? Uh, was it a smart idea? And I
00:11:07
think if it had gone 72 hours in terms
00:11:09
of getting some coordination with
00:11:11
European allies and even Gulf allies,
00:11:14
>> you could have potentially declared
00:11:15
victory and really had a win. Um, but
00:11:18
this is kind of the definition of a
00:11:20
quagmire and that is I'm not sure at
00:11:23
this point he has any choice but to put
00:11:25
boots on the ground because I and I had
00:11:27
Senator Warner on my podcast. I would
00:11:28
argue at this point, Cara, Iran is
00:11:31
winning.
00:11:32
>> Yeah, that's that the IRGC has shown
00:11:34
that they can they can push back the,
00:11:36
you know,
00:11:37
>> the great Satans of Israel and the
00:11:40
United States. And what is at the end of
00:11:44
the day, I think this is an enormous
00:11:46
failure of uh our intelligence director
00:11:49
uh Tulsi Gabbard.
00:11:50
>> Yeah.
00:11:51
>> To not contemplate or consider a
00:11:53
scenario where they cut off the straits
00:11:55
of Hormuz. She probably advised that.
00:11:58
She didn't want to go. She's the America
00:12:00
first. Greg, her ad and Vance are on the
00:12:03
maybe not so much kind of group.
00:12:05
>> Yeah, but you okay, but they they're
00:12:07
claiming now that they're going to try
00:12:08
and work with their allies who are all
00:12:10
saying [ __ ] you if you're going to be
00:12:11
this much of a prick to us. But they
00:12:14
they're doing [ __ ] in reverse order.
00:12:15
They should have secured the straits of
00:12:16
foremost before doing this. They should
00:12:19
have contemplated, well, what happens if
00:12:20
they start firing Shihad drones that
00:12:22
cost $20,000 and it cost us 2 million to
00:12:25
shoot them down? What if they start
00:12:26
firing them into Dubai? So some basic
00:12:30
scenario planning and intelligence from
00:12:32
the people char I mean
00:12:34
>> I think he got that. I think some guy
00:12:36
told him to do this like I the
00:12:38
>> there's no leadership that it doesn't
00:12:40
matter if it doesn't bubble up
00:12:41
>> which is what Tillis said. Tillis was
00:12:43
like I he always tries very hard not to
00:12:45
insult Trump himself but he's like the
00:12:47
advisers and he's particularly for
00:12:49
example went after Steven Miller on
00:12:51
immigration. He particularly goes after
00:12:54
the adviserss. He's like he's either you
00:12:56
have an adviser who's stupid and just
00:12:58
like tells them dumb things or you have
00:12:59
an adviser who knows better who says
00:13:01
nothing, right? Who doesn't who tries to
00:13:04
like assuage the president versus and he
00:13:07
goes either way his adviserss suck, you
00:13:09
know? And I think that's true, but at
00:13:12
some point it's treating Trump like a
00:13:13
toddler. Oh, we managed to keep him this
00:13:16
or that. So, it's a complicated
00:13:18
situation there is this guy wants to do
00:13:20
what he wants to do now and he has
00:13:21
advisers who are either too weak to tell
00:13:24
him the truth or tell him the truth and
00:13:26
then get fired or slapped for it kind of
00:13:29
stuff. I don't know. It's a problematic
00:13:30
sit it's not certainly not the the group
00:13:33
of rivals that Lincoln had.
00:13:35
>> Well, but a lot of people would argue on
00:13:37
the opposite side that basically
00:13:39
Secretary Rubio is a shadow president
00:13:41
making these decisions and so is his
00:13:42
son-in-law Kushner. So,
00:13:44
>> right,
00:13:44
>> you know, which is it? Is he listening
00:13:46
to people or is he not? Because it to me
00:13:50
this is just such a striking
00:13:51
intelligence failure to not do some
00:13:53
basic scenario planning around what if
00:13:56
and we are now in a position of weakness
00:13:57
where I mean the general not the
00:14:00
consensus but when I speak to people in
00:14:01
the intelligence community there's a
00:14:04
feeling okay the most obvious next step
00:14:06
here is that he feels to save face
00:14:08
because the RGC has said [ __ ] you you
00:14:10
can pretend you're talking to us we're
00:14:12
not talking back we have dispersed we
00:14:15
anti we did scenario planning we We
00:14:17
anticipated what if our leadership is
00:14:20
killed and they have dispersed military
00:14:22
and executive authority out to the
00:14:25
various regions. So they're like cut off
00:14:26
the head of the snake. That's okay. We
00:14:28
the snake's going to keep moving. So
00:14:30
there was no basic uh essential basic
00:14:33
scenario planning here. And the general
00:14:35
feeling is that he will land troops
00:14:38
potentially on Car Island and then try
00:14:40
and secure Kar and do a deal to exchange
00:14:42
Carg for opening the Straits of Hormuz.
00:14:45
>> Right. No, but that's what we had
00:14:47
before. Like one of the things that
00:14:48
>> I'm not arguing it's we're in a good
00:14:50
spot.
00:14:50
>> One of the things when I talked to
00:14:51
Tillis and when I also talked to Warner
00:14:53
is that the same thing you're talking
00:14:54
about these drones and everything else
00:14:56
like the word obliterate that he
00:14:58
obliterated it months ago the nuclear
00:15:00
facilities but now he's obliterating
00:15:02
more and you know tell us who's sort of
00:15:05
had seems to have run out of [ __ ] was
00:15:06
like yeah we obliterated again and then
00:15:08
we obliterated it like you know
00:15:10
>> you can't that's like to say you
00:15:13
obliterate. All right. So essentially
00:15:14
what you have
00:15:14
>> making fun of Trump. I believe that's
00:15:16
what was happening there.
00:15:17
>> Again the the key word in all of this
00:15:19
coming out of Ukraine and now this war
00:15:22
is asymmetry. And that is wars and
00:15:25
shaping of you know energy routes and
00:15:28
ability to solve things without when
00:15:30
diplomatic means have failed have been
00:15:32
based on very expensive platforms and
00:15:33
technology no one else had access to. It
00:15:36
has gone the entirely other way. And now
00:15:38
you can essentially build a drone for
00:15:41
$20,000 with a two-stroke engine similar
00:15:44
to what's in a motorcycle. And that's
00:15:46
like to say you're gonna obliterate it.
00:15:48
If if we all of a sudden declared war on
00:15:50
Texas and most of the Southwest
00:15:53
actually, which Iran is bigger than, and
00:15:54
said, "Okay, how do you find every
00:15:57
little factory that's pull push pulling
00:15:59
together lawnmowers?" That's what you're
00:16:01
up against. you're not going to be able
00:16:03
and then they launch 40 of these things
00:16:05
and the defense systems get confused and
00:16:07
all you need it's similar similar to the
00:16:09
Department of Homeland Security or the
00:16:11
FBI they have to stop every terrorist
00:16:15
attack right
00:16:16
>> and the notion that just one
00:16:20
>> one
00:16:21
>> one ship is set on fire or the Burj
00:16:24
Khalifa is taken down in Dubai
00:16:26
>> that's all they need and what's actually
00:16:28
stopping this and you can imagine
00:16:31
>> if you're if you're transporting tens or
00:16:34
hundreds of millions of dollars of a
00:16:35
product called oil through a dangerous
00:16:37
area, there needs to be insurance
00:16:40
against that payment against that that
00:16:44
substance arriving at its destination.
00:16:46
In other words, there's cross party
00:16:48
collateralization in insurance. And
00:16:50
right now, I would argue what's actually
00:16:52
holding up the straits of Hormos is I
00:16:53
don't believe any insurance company is
00:16:55
willing to insure these tankers right
00:16:56
now.
00:16:56
>> Yeah, I don't know what I would do if I
00:16:58
was running these companies. Anyway,
00:16:59
we'll see what happens. It's still
00:17:01
confusing and it's gone on far too long.
00:17:03
This confusing and I think that's the
00:17:04
real problem. He's really stuck in a a
00:17:06
quagmire.
00:17:07
>> A quagmire. This is the definition in a
00:17:09
corner.
00:17:10
>> If he had after 72 hours said we've
00:17:13
we've further diminished their ability
00:17:14
to fund proxies. We have substantially
00:17:16
denigrated their launch capabilities. We
00:17:19
have we have made the the the leadership
00:17:22
infrastructure much more insecure and
00:17:24
diminished it vastly. we are now going
00:17:25
to work with our Gulf allies and
00:17:28
European nations to try and maintain a
00:17:30
sense of security and keep in a box. He
00:17:32
probably could have declared at some
00:17:34
level victory.
00:17:35
>> But Scott, chaos follows this guy. The
00:17:37
chaos is his his brand right now.
00:17:39
Anyway, um
00:17:40
>> agreed.
00:17:41
>> Uh let's move on. The boys are uh really
00:17:44
back together. Speaking of which,
00:17:46
speaking of chaos, Elon Musk joined a
00:17:48
phone call with President Trump and
00:17:49
India's Prime Minister Modi about the
00:17:51
Strait of Hormuz. It's unclear whether
00:17:53
Mus spoke on the call and neither
00:17:54
government mentioned his presence in the
00:17:56
official readouts. Meanwhile, as we all
00:17:58
know, SpaceX is preparing to launch the
00:18:00
largest IPO of all time, reportedly
00:18:01
targeting a $ 1.75 trillion valuation,
00:18:04
which is kind of a lot over their
00:18:06
revenues, but okay, fine. That's a Musk
00:18:08
company. Musk reportedly wants to have
00:18:10
investors come to SpaceX's seat
00:18:11
facilities and rocket launches. He does
00:18:13
that a lot. He invites people in to show
00:18:15
off his wares of impressive wares. He
00:18:17
does He's doing that with robotics, too,
00:18:19
which are pretty cool. Um, the company
00:18:21
is also considering limiting share sales
00:18:23
by early investors, a preferential
00:18:25
treatment for investors in Musk's other
00:18:27
companies, which is why they suck up to
00:18:29
him so and reserving a large That's why
00:18:31
they buy Twitter, so they can get into
00:18:33
this. And reserving a large portion of
00:18:35
the shares for individual investors.
00:18:36
That's fine. That's great. Speaking of
00:18:39
making amends with his enemies, text
00:18:41
released as part of Musk's lawsuit
00:18:43
against OpenAI show that Zuckerberg
00:18:44
tested Musk saying, "Looks like Doge is
00:18:47
making progress. I've got our teams on
00:18:48
alert to take down contact doxing or
00:18:51
threatening the people on your team. Let
00:18:52
me know if there's anything I can do to
00:18:54
help. Oh, he does want to content
00:18:55
moderate. Musk hearted the message and
00:18:58
then asked Zucker would be open to
00:18:59
bidding on open AI with him, which the
00:19:01
two seem to have spoken about on the
00:19:03
phone. I mean, these people say one
00:19:05
thing in public and another in private,
00:19:07
but talk first about um the phone call,
00:19:09
then the IPO, and you know, Mark
00:19:11
Zuckerberg will talk to anybody if it
00:19:13
means a deal. So, that's what I think
00:19:14
about that.
00:19:16
I don't I I don't have a problem with
00:19:18
the president inviting people into a
00:19:20
call that he thinks can help achieve the
00:19:22
objectives whether it's someone who has
00:19:24
domain expertise whether Musk is the
00:19:26
right person to have on the call but I
00:19:28
think the president should bring to bear
00:19:29
any resources he thinks going to result
00:19:31
in a more productive conversation
00:19:33
and Modi is probably wants probably
00:19:37
wants uh you know Starlink or maybe Modi
00:19:40
and Musk have a pre-existing
00:19:41
relationship who knows or maybe like you
00:19:43
said he's just showing them off. The
00:19:46
staggering thing for me is I I can't
00:19:49
wait for the S1 because the target
00:19:52
valuation of 1 8 trillion. This company,
00:19:56
you know, it's projected or generated
00:19:59
roughly 15 to 16 billion and about 8
00:20:01
billion in profit in 2025.
00:20:04
That means at the IPO it's trading at
00:20:07
109 times trailing revenue.
00:20:09
>> That's a must company, right? Are you
00:20:11
going to do like you did with Weiwork?
00:20:13
I'd love to see.
00:20:13
>> Oh, but that's more than pound. Oh, no.
00:20:15
No. This is a real company. It might be
00:20:16
overvalued. Yeah.
00:20:18
>> But we work as it scaled lost more
00:20:19
money. This is a company with
00:20:21
unbelievable
00:20:23
product and moes. It's But two things
00:20:25
can be true at once. Is it an
00:20:27
unbelievable company with I think
00:20:28
probably the widest moes in the business
00:20:30
world right now? Absolutely.
00:20:32
>> For now.
00:20:33
>> For now. Um but everyone feels like a
00:20:36
distant number two. Like who's the
00:20:38
number two here?
00:20:38
>> I don't know. I think people will catch
00:20:40
up in this. I think I take a lot
00:20:42
everyone said no when it catch Tesla.
00:20:44
Everyone caught Tesla and it was a lot
00:20:45
faster than we thought. Right.
00:20:46
>> Yeah. But manufacturing manufacturing an
00:20:49
EV versus a launch capability.
00:20:52
>> I just I think
00:20:53
>> you think someone's going to catch up.
00:20:55
>> I think I think Bezos is working on it.
00:20:57
I think a lot of countries there's ones
00:20:59
happening in Europe. I think look it's
00:21:01
not going to be the only one and
00:21:02
everyone's going to be like why are we
00:21:03
you know it's sort of like the Lockheed
00:21:05
problem right? I think a lot of people
00:21:06
think it's an attractive thing. 90% of
00:21:10
launches.
00:21:11
>> I get it. They are the only remember
00:21:13
when he said it.
00:21:14
>> They are the only company in the world
00:21:15
right now that is capable of putting
00:21:17
humans into space.
00:21:18
>> Yep. Yep. And when you look at when you
00:21:20
look at space and whether it's energy or
00:21:23
connectivity or or or space military or
00:21:26
space defense, they're all for a while
00:21:28
going to have to come through SpaceX. At
00:21:31
the same time,
00:21:31
>> no question.
00:21:32
>> At the same time, is it worth
00:21:35
>> Yes.
00:21:35
>> 109 times revenue? I don't
00:21:37
>> situation. Tesla is declining
00:21:39
precipitously and yet it still trades at
00:21:42
a ridiculous.
00:21:43
>> But Musk owns roughly 42% of SpaceX. So
00:21:46
this IPO could make him the first
00:21:48
recorded trillionaire in history. And on
00:21:50
Kyi the odds that he'll become the a
00:21:52
trillionaire this year are 71%. So
00:21:55
there's almost a three in4 chance
00:21:57
according to a lot of people
00:21:59
>> that Musk is about to become the
00:22:01
trillionaire. And that is in my view
00:22:05
really uh troubling uh because I think
00:22:09
as a species we need guard rails and
00:22:13
money directly translates to power and I
00:22:16
don't think any unelected person should
00:22:17
have this much power.
00:22:18
>> Yeah, he definitely pushes himself into
00:22:21
every single aspect of our lives, you
00:22:23
know, in some way and he'll do a
00:22:25
trillion dollars. Say he takes
00:22:26
>> politically he'll be problematic. say he
00:22:29
says, "Okay, I'm I'm going to die soon
00:22:31
and I want to be worth five trillion and
00:22:34
I'm going to I want to I want to decide
00:22:36
who the next president is. I'm going to
00:22:38
take 3% of my net worth, which would be
00:22:42
$30 billion." There's there's evidence
00:22:44
that he had influence on Trump's
00:22:46
election with 250 million.
00:22:48
>> Mhm.
00:22:48
>> So with
00:22:49
>> But he didn't in Wisconsin with 25.
00:22:51
That's a lot in that state. Like I think
00:22:53
it's a mixed bag. When he shows up, it's
00:22:56
a lot of money. When he shows up, it's a
00:22:58
lot of Yeah. No, you know, I think
00:23:00
>> Citizens United and a guy being worth a
00:23:02
trillion dollars.
00:23:02
>> Agreed.
00:23:03
>> Is really scary.
00:23:04
>> It also has effects of if this guy is
00:23:07
he's like the Soros or he's the Soros of
00:23:09
the right essentially now, right on some
00:23:12
level. And I do think it has a negative
00:23:14
impact and and alerts people to this
00:23:17
situation that he I don't think money
00:23:19
buys everything. He's he's failed in a
00:23:21
number of areas like Doge. he's failed
00:23:23
and like he fails quite a bit which of
00:23:25
course is his his brand is I fail and
00:23:27
then I succeed. Um
00:23:29
>> I think in a close election which most
00:23:30
presidential elections are he could
00:23:32
absolutely swing it.
00:23:33
>> He already has he already has had more
00:23:35
impact than any individual in recent
00:23:37
history especially killing people across
00:23:39
the globe with Doge. I mean again I I
00:23:42
it'll we'll see what happens here but
00:23:44
they certainly it's going to be the
00:23:46
blockbuster IPO and it will be
00:23:48
overvalued by a lot given you know
00:23:51
they'll have a lot of the skis to cover
00:23:53
and then they'll have the money to do
00:23:54
so, right? To to sort of create that
00:23:56
moat even wider.
00:23:58
>> Incredible. It's an incredible I won't
00:23:59
even call it a product because what it
00:24:01
really is, it's global infrastructure.
00:24:03
Um they have the largest commercial
00:24:05
satellite constellation. It's no, which
00:24:07
by the way is no longer NASA, it's
00:24:08
SpaceX. And as of May 2025,
00:24:11
Starlink controlled more than 7,600
00:24:13
satellites or 2/3 of all active
00:24:15
satellites in orbit. The majority of new
00:24:18
satellites launched globally in late
00:24:20
2024 were Starlink. And SpaceX plans to
00:24:23
scale to 42,000 satellites. That's up
00:24:25
sixfold.
00:24:26
>> Yep. They control global global
00:24:28
information system.
00:24:29
>> Making Starlink the deacto broadband
00:24:31
backbone in space and projections for
00:24:33
the end of 2025. 6 million subscribers
00:24:36
and 62% of global satellite broadband
00:24:39
revenue um going to one company. And
00:24:42
most competitors can match SpaceX's
00:24:44
price, cadence, or reliability. I know
00:24:46
Facebook has tried uh Amazon has tried.
00:24:49
They're all trying. I I I always feel
00:24:51
like this is these are these high water
00:24:53
marks for these people, but that's I I
00:24:55
you know it you have to hand it to him.
00:24:57
I remember when he talked about it for
00:24:58
the first time to me um that the
00:25:01
creating this two people were talking
00:25:02
about this at the time. Him and oddly
00:25:05
enough Jerry Yang had an investment in a
00:25:07
low and it's the first time I learned of
00:25:09
it. So I got real I learn I I I got
00:25:11
caught up on the topic like what it was
00:25:14
going to do. But Jerry Yang had an
00:25:16
investment in one and it was he's the
00:25:17
first person who talked about it and
00:25:18
then Musk that same year started talking
00:25:21
about it. This was a long long long time
00:25:22
ago and it was really at the time I
00:25:25
remember thinking no one's talking like
00:25:27
this like everyone else was like doing a
00:25:29
[ __ ] dating service or some dumb
00:25:30
thing.
00:25:31
>> It comes down to some very boring
00:25:33
numbers and that is the cost to launch a
00:25:38
kilogram of material usually a satellite
00:25:40
into low earth orbit. And this is what
00:25:44
SpaceX's Falcon Heavy rocket can launch
00:25:47
into a kilogram for. They can launch a
00:25:49
kilogram into space for $1,500.
00:25:53
Uh Aron's 5G, it costs them $9,200.
00:25:58
Their Electron product cost $19,000.
00:26:01
Their launches, SpaceX's launches occur
00:26:03
every 2 to three days. No other provider
00:26:04
is within range. So they are they are 6x
00:26:09
less expensive. The Chinese certainly
00:26:11
have capabilities here. So anyway,
00:26:13
>> do they I don't know that much about
00:26:14
Chinese.
00:26:15
>> They do they and so you know one of the
00:26:17
things it'll be interesting to see what
00:26:18
happens here and what the these forces
00:26:21
are really powerful and he is very
00:26:23
powerful single person. It does put him
00:26:25
at great risk too of being a not just
00:26:28
not a physical target. That's not what
00:26:30
I'm talking about. But when something
00:26:31
like this happens there's always forces
00:26:33
against it that I think that we that
00:26:36
will start to build. He becomes and he
00:26:39
becomes soros. He becomes Soros in a
00:26:41
weird way.
00:26:42
>> But I I feel much more benign about
00:26:43
Soros. Why do you
00:26:44
>> I do too, but I'm talking about to the
00:26:46
right he or the Koch brothers like pick
00:26:48
pick whatever one who's or Henry Ford
00:26:51
back in the day. There was also a Texas
00:26:52
billionaire and I can't remember his
00:26:54
name a million years like in the 20s
00:26:56
that did stuff like that.
00:26:57
>> But there's a different like so and cork
00:26:59
the Koch brothers they were all quite
00:27:01
philanthropic.
00:27:02
>> Well not him not not Elon for sure. Musk
00:27:05
is not. And Musk is infinitely more
00:27:08
powerful and has a technology that can
00:27:10
basically decide
00:27:11
>> wars. And this is a guy who is
00:27:13
reportedly addicted to ketamine. What
00:27:14
could go wrong?
00:27:15
>> Things are wrong. Let me just tell you,
00:27:17
I'm glad.
00:27:17
>> It does feel like a bond film, but less
00:27:19
than is glad she's in Park Slope. I'll
00:27:21
be protected by the lesbian.
00:27:22
>> Oh yeah, you're safe in Brooklyn. Yeah.
00:27:24
A nuclear device gets detonated 500
00:27:26
meters above Midtown. Yeah, Brooklyn's
00:27:28
going to be fine.
00:27:29
>> No, what I mean is that like if he's
00:27:30
coming after me, he's he's not a fan of
00:27:32
Caris Swisser. Um, but maybe you should
00:27:35
make nice with them.
00:27:36
>> That's what I don't get about I talked
00:27:37
to one of these guys that is building
00:27:39
the bunker in New Zealand, a guy, you
00:27:40
know, and
00:27:41
>> and I'm like, you realize if [ __ ] gets
00:27:43
real
00:27:44
>> and you fire up the G650 and had to
00:27:48
peace out to New Zealand, you realize
00:27:49
your your pilots are going to kill you
00:27:51
and [ __ ] your wife, right?
00:27:52
>> That's correct.
00:27:53
>> And the table went quiet.
00:27:55
>> I know. I said that to one of them who
00:27:56
had a plan. I said, "What's your plan?"
00:27:58
I said, "I'm going to kill you and take
00:27:59
your motorcycle out to your
00:28:01
>> [ __ ] your wife." I was like, "Of
00:28:03
course." And then they were like, "You
00:28:04
could see them calculating, how do I
00:28:05
stop Cara from killing me?" I said, "You
00:28:06
won't see me coming."
00:28:08
>> You think if if if the [ __ ] goes to
00:28:10
where these think people think it's
00:28:12
going
00:28:12
>> Yeah.
00:28:13
>> This the people who die right away are
00:28:15
the lucky ones.
00:28:16
>> I Exactly. I sometimes think that living
00:28:18
in Washington, I feel okay about that.
00:28:20
Anyway, let's not go there. Let's not go
00:28:22
there. Congratulations, Elon Musk, on
00:28:24
your SpaceX victory.
00:28:26
>> You're still terrible person. No matter
00:28:28
how rich you get, you're completely
00:28:30
unlikable. Anyway, oh, I have to say one
00:28:32
Brooklyn thing. So, I was it was there
00:28:35
was this crazy cyber truck parked across
00:28:37
the street. I thought, "Oh, who's doing
00:28:38
this?" Right where my apartment is and
00:28:41
it was tricked out. It was all manner of
00:28:42
[ __ ] on it. I didn't know. It was some
00:28:44
sort of commercial thing. And you know,
00:28:46
there's a bunch of teen boys and they
00:28:48
weren't they were just hanging out and I
00:28:50
thought first they were like admiring it
00:28:52
and what was really funny is and they
00:28:54
weren't they weren't sort of typical
00:28:56
parks. I'm trying to like they were they
00:28:58
were sort of sitting in front of it like
00:29:00
talking about it. I'm I went over and
00:29:02
I'm like what do you think? And I wasn't
00:29:03
making an opinion. They're like what a
00:29:05
douche. And it was like they were like
00:29:08
it was interesting because I just
00:29:09
interviewed Louis Thorough uh Thoru. Uh
00:29:11
who's Justin.
00:29:12
>> Oh you you interviewed about the
00:29:13
manosphere.
00:29:14
>> Yes. Exactly.
00:29:15
>> You're beating me to my content.
00:29:16
>> I'm so sorry. I'm way ahead of you.
00:29:18
>> How was it? That's Justin's cousin.
00:29:20
>> Fantastic. I know it's Justin's cousin.
00:29:22
Um he's also a great filmmaker. Uh, I
00:29:24
got to say was really interesting is one
00:29:26
the point thing you pointed out is even
00:29:27
though a lot of these manosphere guys
00:29:28
are really popular, there's also a whole
00:29:30
group of young men who are like they
00:29:33
they mock them and enjoy being in on the
00:29:36
joke and mocking them at the same time
00:29:38
and also liking some of it but mocking
00:29:40
them. And that was going on in front of
00:29:42
the Cybertruck. They're like is such a
00:29:44
douche but like whatever. And they were
00:29:46
so cool and I was like, "Oh, I feel so
00:29:48
much better about you after talking to
00:29:50
these guys because they were so cool and
00:29:53
they also were in on the joke and I
00:29:56
don't know, I just felt better." Anyway,
00:29:57
yes, Louis. Yes, it was great. And we
00:29:58
talked of you
00:30:00
>> just so you know.
00:30:01
>> Good. I'm glad I'm supposed to have him
00:30:03
on. I wrote a my number. I wrote a
00:30:05
review of the of the show.
00:30:06
>> I loved it.
00:30:08
>> Yeah, it was really illuminating for me.
00:30:10
>> Can I tell you the one line I loved the
00:30:11
best of all? I liked his I like his
00:30:13
interview style and I was actually
00:30:14
looking at as a professional how he does
00:30:16
the interview style. I agree.
00:30:17
>> When he's work when he's HS whatever tdy
00:30:21
whatever ticky talkie whatever tick-
00:30:23
tockie um he was working out and he goes
00:30:26
is this your leg day he's British and
00:30:28
the guy goes of course it is you know
00:30:31
like like an [ __ ] and like shows off
00:30:33
his thigh which is quite a beefy thigh
00:30:36
>> and Louis Lou Louisie looks at him and
00:30:39
he goes you could work on those calves
00:30:41
and the guy just melts and I was like I
00:30:43
love you Louis thu I love him pronounced
00:30:46
it through. Unlike Justin, they
00:30:48
pronounce it differently. Um,
00:30:50
>> anyway, it he has all these lines like
00:30:52
that in there that he just eviscerates
00:30:54
these people with kindness in a way
00:30:55
that's really
00:30:56
>> Yeah, I agree.
00:30:57
>> It's a really good show. Anyway, uh
00:31:00
Elon, good luck. Anyway, uh let's go. Uh
00:31:03
Elon, you could work on your calves. Uh
00:31:05
okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break.
00:31:07
When we come back, Anthropic scores a
00:31:09
win against the Pentagon. Support for
00:31:12
this show comes from Framer. Your
00:31:13
website can set the tone for your brand
00:31:15
and it's the one touch point that every
00:31:16
single one of your customers sees on the
00:31:18
daily. So if you still struggle to make
00:31:20
small changes or simple updates, you're
00:31:22
potentially leaving opportunities on the
00:31:24
table. That's why so many companies are
00:31:26
turning to Framer, the website builder
00:31:28
that turns your from a formality into a
00:31:30
tool for growth. Framer is an
00:31:32
enterprisegrade noode website builder
00:31:34
used by teams at companies like
00:31:36
Perplexity and Miro to move faster. With
00:31:38
real-time collaboration, a robust CMS
00:31:40
with everything you need for great SEO
00:31:42
and advanced analytics that include
00:31:44
integrated AB testing, your designers
00:31:46
and marketers are empowered to build and
00:31:48
maximize your.com from day one. Changes
00:31:50
to your Framer site go live to the web
00:31:52
in seconds with one click without help
00:31:54
from engineering. So whether you want to
00:31:56
launch a new site, test a few landing
00:31:58
pages, or migrate your full.com, Framer
00:32:00
has programs for startups, scaleups, and
00:32:02
large enterprises to make going from
00:32:04
idea to live site as easy and fast as
00:32:06
possible. Learn how you can get more out
00:32:08
of your.com from a framer specialist or
00:32:11
get started building for free today at
00:32:13
framer.com/pivot
00:32:14
for 30% off a Framer Pro annual plan.
00:32:17
That's framer.com/pivot
00:32:19
for 30% off. framer.com/pivot.
00:32:23
rules and restrictions apply.
00:32:26
Scott, we're back anthropic to score a
00:32:28
win in his fight with the Trump
00:32:29
administration. Obviously, a federal
00:32:31
judge in California granted a
00:32:33
preliminary injunction temporarily
00:32:34
blocking the Pentagon's efforts to label
00:32:36
the company a supply chain rest. The
00:32:38
judge didn't mince words in her ruling,
00:32:39
saying, "This is a classic illegal first
00:32:41
amendment retaliation." Exactly. She
00:32:44
also called it a quote Orwellian notion
00:32:46
to brand an American company a potential
00:32:48
adversary for expressing disagreement.
00:32:50
The Pentagon is pushing back, expected
00:32:51
to appeal, of course, with senior
00:32:53
official Emil Michael, another Loathome
00:32:55
character, tweeting, "The ruling is a
00:32:57
disgrace." Oh, Emil, get over it. The
00:33:00
final decision in this case could still
00:33:02
be months away. There's also a second
00:33:03
lawsuit pending in DC. Anthropic won the
00:33:06
battle. You know, it's it's problematic
00:33:08
to be in this ridiculous fight. I think
00:33:10
it'll be over by midterms when they they
00:33:12
jack Hegath out of the place. But also a
00:33:15
potent and Emil too also a potential
00:33:18
factor. Anthropic is reportedly
00:33:19
considering going public as soon as
00:33:20
October. That is problematic for them.
00:33:23
Um so what do you what do you and
00:33:25
related a federal judge has put on hold
00:33:27
the $6.2 billion merger between Nextar
00:33:30
and Tegno which would create the largest
00:33:31
operator of local TV in the country 69%
00:33:34
o over the former 30ome percent amount
00:33:37
you're allowed to um bring together. The
00:33:40
judge granted a request from Direct TV
00:33:42
arguing the merger violates antitrust
00:33:44
laws. A 14-day restraining order has
00:33:46
been issued and a hearing is scheduled
00:33:47
for April 7th. Eight attorneys general
00:33:50
have filed a separate lawsuit. Um, I'm
00:33:53
going to just play this. Let's listen to
00:33:55
what our least favorite FCC chair,
00:33:57
Brenda Carr, I'm sorry, Brendan Carr,
00:33:59
uh, had to say at CPAC.
00:34:02
>> President Trump took on the fake news
00:34:03
media and President Trump is winning.
00:34:05
Look at the results so far. PBS
00:34:08
defunded. NPR defunded. Joy Reed gone
00:34:12
from MSNBC.
00:34:14
Sleepy Eye Chuck Todd gone. Jim Acasta
00:34:17
gone. John Dickerson gone. Coar is
00:34:20
leaving. CBS is under new ownership. And
00:34:23
soon enough, CNN is have new ownership
00:34:25
as well.
00:34:25
>> Boy, this guy is just just not doing his
00:34:27
job. Honestly, it's seriously he's such
00:34:29
a suckup to the Trump administration.
00:34:31
He's just explicit about it. And he's
00:34:33
also not very smart. He's a [ __ ] Um,
00:34:35
so talk about these these next star the
00:34:37
the anthropic thing. It looks like
00:34:39
everything as usual Trump does he does
00:34:41
something aggressive and stupid and
00:34:43
loses in court, but he still does
00:34:45
damage. So talk and then you can talk
00:34:48
about Brenda if you want, but that's up
00:34:50
to you.
00:34:50
>> Well, I'll go in reverse order. Brenda
00:34:52
Carr has no business in the federal
00:34:53
government. You're you're not supposed
00:34:54
to go into the government to use it as a
00:34:57
means of attacking your political
00:34:58
enemies and freedom of speech.
00:35:00
>> Yep. I mean, just the notion
00:35:03
this guy makes gals look thoughtful and
00:35:05
that is the directly calling out people
00:35:08
who don't agree with your political
00:35:09
views and then weaponizing government to
00:35:11
try and get people whose views you don't
00:35:14
agree with off the air. That's I it's
00:35:18
like it's just so blatant. It's okay.
00:35:21
So, when we get to appoint an FCC chair,
00:35:25
we're going to go after Hannity. And
00:35:27
>> I mean, is that is that where we're
00:35:29
headed? You want us to start blather on
00:35:31
this idiotic stuff. I don't care. He
00:35:33
annoys me.
00:35:33
>> No. Look, with it's just not qualified
00:35:37
to be in government. With respect to
00:35:39
anthropic, most major AI companies have
00:35:41
bent the knee to the government and
00:35:43
worked with them in any any military
00:35:46
context. I want last year, Google
00:35:47
dropped its ethical guidelines that
00:35:49
included a list of applications it would
00:35:51
not pursue, including weapons and
00:35:53
surveillance,
00:35:53
>> but it used to be able to do so without
00:35:56
a problem.
00:35:57
>> Is that right? And then they put in
00:35:58
guidelines and then they I thought they
00:36:00
were they relaxed their guidelines.
00:36:02
>> They did relax them. But I'm saying they
00:36:03
used to be able to say no and nobody had
00:36:05
a problem. They just didn't work for
00:36:07
them. That's all.
00:36:08
>> Well, that's the whole point of private
00:36:09
enterprise. You get to choose your you
00:36:10
can fire your clients. Just the way
00:36:12
consumers get to pick companies,
00:36:13
companies get to pick their consumers
00:36:15
unless it's based on sexual orientation
00:36:16
or race or what have you.
00:36:18
>> Meta changed its policy to allow US
00:36:20
government agencies and contractors to
00:36:22
access its llama models for national
00:36:24
security purposes. Open AI, which once
00:36:27
stated its goal was to benefit humanity
00:36:29
as a whole, now has multiple contracts
00:36:31
with the military and defense
00:36:33
contractors. And by the way, I don't I I
00:36:35
I don't mind when companies like
00:36:38
Palunteer say, "We're going to work with
00:36:40
the government on in the defense
00:36:41
department." I get it, but you should
00:36:44
also have the right to not to. I don't.
00:36:46
So Anthropic is really they're the only
00:36:49
major AI company that has drawn a public
00:36:51
line on autonomous weapons and mass
00:36:53
surveillance and now it's the only one
00:36:55
being punished for it
00:36:56
>> but it's also winning in court which is
00:36:57
good but it's still is it problematic
00:36:59
for the IPO from your perspective?
00:37:02
>> Well IPO the the the threat to the IPO
00:37:06
is a bunch of companies say there is
00:37:08
there all there are alternatives out
00:37:10
there. We appreciate your stand Dario
00:37:14
but for the time being we're not
00:37:16
expanding our enterprisewide
00:37:18
relationship with you because we don't
00:37:19
want to be put on a list
00:37:20
>> right
00:37:21
>> uh now having said that having said that
00:37:24
again see above what I believe is the
00:37:26
biggest commercial opportunity in
00:37:29
decades is um to say no and if you look
00:37:34
at what's happened to Anthropic they're
00:37:36
now getting 70 cents on the dollar of
00:37:38
every new AI dollar being allocated to
00:37:41
AI from the enterprise. So, it looks as
00:37:44
if their ability to say no and get a
00:37:46
court to say, "Yeah, this is [ __ ]
00:37:48
This is socialism, cronyism, whatever
00:37:50
you want to call it, it looks like it's
00:37:52
it's setting up really I think anthropic
00:37:55
right now. I've said that I think
00:37:56
anthropic at this anthropic at this
00:37:58
moment is worth more than open AI." What
00:38:02
happens is the mark that people invest
00:38:04
at is a bit elucory because if they get
00:38:06
a preferred return, meaning no matter
00:38:08
what happens, they get their money out
00:38:10
sooner or they're getting a guaranteed
00:38:12
17.5% return, which is what Sam is
00:38:15
offering to private equity firms, then
00:38:17
that $850 billion number is a bit of a
00:38:21
head fake because as long as I'm getting
00:38:22
17.5% regardless of what it goes public
00:38:25
at, but I would argue right now the an
00:38:28
the momentum around anthropic is really
00:38:32
strong and the momentum around open AI
00:38:35
is really uh is really weird.
00:38:37
>> So you think it won't affect it? What
00:38:38
about the next star thing? Speaking of
00:38:40
mor on Brendan,
00:38:42
>> well we heard I was actually really
00:38:44
moved. A lot of people pushed back on my
00:38:45
comments about how local news is a dying
00:38:47
business and a lot of people push back
00:38:49
and said
00:38:50
>> I hate to hear this. It's a it's really
00:38:52
important work. And also to be fair,
00:38:56
you know, there's a lot of local
00:38:57
corruption
00:38:59
that and the only check on it is local
00:39:01
news. You know, seven I remember seven
00:39:03
on your side.
00:39:04
>> Seven on your side.
00:39:05
>> From the hills to the seas to the San
00:39:06
Gabriel Mountains. I'm Jerry Dumpy.
00:39:08
>> Yeah.
00:39:09
>> Who by the way, Ted Baxter from Mary
00:39:10
Tyler Moore was based on supposedly
00:39:12
wasn't supposedly Jerry wasn't very
00:39:13
smart. Um but he had broad shoulders and
00:39:16
just made it all the time. I love Dorian
00:39:18
Gensler in DC when I was in college. And
00:39:20
they also had Bruce Herschensson and Jim
00:39:22
Tunny and Point Counterpoint. And that
00:39:24
27 minutes of real news was bested by
00:39:27
the 3 minutes of two people arguing like
00:39:29
crazy.
00:39:31
>> If it had been that era, you and I would
00:39:33
have been a good local news team. Like
00:39:35
>> I would have predicted hail the size of
00:39:37
of canned tomatoes. I I would have loved
00:39:39
being a weatherman. I actually took
00:39:40
meteorology my senior year when I was
00:39:43
trying to figure out what the [ __ ] to do
00:39:44
with my life my senior year in college.
00:39:47
I thought I could be a weatherman and I
00:39:49
took meteorology.
00:39:51
>> I thought I was thinking about a
00:39:54
weatherman.
00:39:54
>> I was going to go in the military and
00:39:56
you were going to be a weatherman and
00:39:57
here I am.
00:39:58
>> Perfect. Yeah. David Letterman started
00:40:00
as a weatherman. Anyways, but we got
00:40:02
push back saying how important or I got
00:40:04
pushed back saying how important local
00:40:06
news is. And so I agree they they do a
00:40:10
great job that you know God be with you.
00:40:12
Um
00:40:13
>> so next star Ta.
00:40:15
>> Okay. Sorry. A judge has temporarily
00:40:17
blocked what is it a $6 billion merger?
00:40:19
>> Yep. 6 months.
00:40:20
>> Between Nextar and Tegna, which would
00:40:22
create the largest operator and uh the
00:40:27
number from 30ome% to 69%.
00:40:30
>> Yeah. 2/3. Basically, they'll have a
00:40:31
lock on it. And a US District judge uh I
00:40:34
think it's in Sacramento granted uh
00:40:36
temporary restraining order siding with
00:40:38
Director V who argued Directory V. God,
00:40:40
they're still around. Which argued the
00:40:42
merger violates federal antitrust laws
00:40:44
and eight eight state attorney generals
00:40:47
led by California's Rob Bont filed a
00:40:49
separate lawsuit. And then no uh in the
00:40:52
ruling he noted that companies do not
00:40:55
contest the merger will increase
00:40:56
NextStar's bargaining leverage to
00:40:58
extract higher fees. And what does the
00:41:00
ruling mean? It means that Nextar and
00:41:02
Tegna can't integrate options integrate
00:41:05
operations for 14 days. A hearing is set
00:41:07
for April 7th to decide whether to issue
00:41:08
a preliminary injunction. So like you
00:41:11
said, if if the merger goes through,
00:41:12
NextStar would own roughly 260
00:41:14
television stations across the country,
00:41:16
reaching about 60% of US households. And
00:41:19
like you said before, it was about 39%.
00:41:22
And the deal does violate FCC rules
00:41:24
limiting how many stations a single
00:41:26
company can operate.
00:41:27
>> Brenda let it through, but go ahead.
00:41:30
Well, so as we as we said, look, it's
00:41:34
not a great business to be in unless
00:41:35
you're in a swing district where they
00:41:37
just basically start trying to advertise
00:41:39
like crazy. Less than half of television
00:41:40
stations report generating any profits
00:41:43
from news. And last year, about 40% of
00:41:45
surveyed local television stations
00:41:47
reported decreasing their news budget.
00:41:49
And local television has lost, get this,
00:41:51
about half of its media spending market
00:41:53
share since since 2017. The business has
00:41:57
been cut
00:41:58
>> in half in the last nine years and as of
00:42:00
June last year
00:42:01
>> local TV accounted for just 6% of total
00:42:04
media spend. Digital video digital video
00:42:06
on the other hand accounts for about
00:42:09
50%. So I look I I don't
00:42:13
I mean it we're going to I think at some
00:42:15
point we got to end up with and people
00:42:17
hate the BBC but I like a certain amount
00:42:20
of public funding.
00:42:21
>> I'm troubled right now. We should talk
00:42:22
about that but later another time. a
00:42:24
certain amount of public funding for
00:42:27
what I'll call
00:42:28
>> local
00:42:29
>> yeah local public news. I think there's
00:42:32
like what Craig Newark did I I think is
00:42:34
really important and I I don't know if
00:42:36
it's a philanthropist. I don't know if
00:42:37
it's government funding like we do at
00:42:39
the BBC here with a house tax.
00:42:41
>> I don't think anyone should own 60% of
00:42:43
any industry even
00:42:45
>> that does feel uncomfortable even I
00:42:47
don't care. They can they can eke out a
00:42:48
good little business from it and and
00:42:51
influence things in ways that just and
00:42:52
they're also they're the ones that sort
00:42:54
of sucked up to Brenda during the Kimmel
00:42:56
thing. Yeah.
00:42:57
>> Yeah. You know, I just nobody I don't
00:42:59
want a liberal running 60%. I don't want
00:43:01
anybody like I just feel like it needs
00:43:03
to be dispersed. Even if that problem is
00:43:06
like a lot of media, it's a bad business
00:43:08
if you don't have monopolies. Um and
00:43:11
then it's just an okay business. I I
00:43:13
don't know whatever it's I hope they
00:43:14
stop it, but they're not going to. But
00:43:16
nonetheless, I hope then the industry
00:43:18
dies and I hope there
00:43:19
>> I'm just wonder entrepreneurial local
00:43:22
efforts going on. And there are a lot of
00:43:24
them by the way across the country in
00:43:26
Mississippi and Baltimore. So let's just
00:43:29
have new stuff and forget these these
00:43:31
compromised
00:43:32
>> I'm shocked you didn't bring up Vox. The
00:43:34
our companies in play.
00:43:35
>> Oh yes. Oh yes. Would you like to
00:43:37
discuss that?
00:43:39
>> Uh well I I have first off let me say I
00:43:41
have absolutely no insider information
00:43:42
here. Um
00:43:43
>> and I have a lot.
00:43:44
>> You have a lot. I'm on the outside.
00:43:47
>> Supposedly Vox is in discussions with
00:43:48
Comcast who's an existing shareholder to
00:43:51
take
00:43:51
>> Versent not Comcast
00:43:52
>> I'm sorry Versant. Yeah. Which owns
00:43:55
>> like Quasant
00:43:56
>> MSNBC and CNBC to take the pods. Then
00:43:59
they would sell the digital business and
00:44:02
also sell off NY. And the way I would
00:44:04
loosely describe it is the digital stuff
00:44:07
is a shitty business getting worse.
00:44:09
Anytime you're dependent upon Amazon,
00:44:12
Meta, and Google, eventually they will
00:44:15
screw you and take all the margin. Uh
00:44:17
those are difficult businesses. The New
00:44:19
York Magazine is a trophy asset. What do
00:44:21
I mean by that? There is some crypto or
00:44:24
hedge fund douche that will pay an
00:44:26
extraordinary amount of money to own New
00:44:28
York Magazine.
00:44:29
>> There's a lot of people. It does well,
00:44:30
too. It doesn't It's not like a big
00:44:32
>> It'll trade at an irrational price.
00:44:34
>> Yeah, it will.
00:44:35
>> Football teams make no money. They got
00:44:37
sold for five, seven, and 10 billion
00:44:38
dollars because some guy wants to go
00:44:39
from being an overweight tech guy to the
00:44:42
sexiest man in Cleveland by owning the
00:44:43
Browns overnight.
00:44:44
>> Okay. Can I just say it's also a really
00:44:46
good journalistic enterprise and it does
00:44:48
okay. I'm sorry. I'm going to
00:44:49
>> Okay. It It won't go for an okay price.
00:44:51
I'm I'm saying it'll go for no It'll go
00:44:53
it'll go for an irrational price.
00:44:55
>> It's a nice property.
00:44:56
>> The new owner is not going to be into it
00:44:58
for the cash flow or for journalism. The
00:45:00
new owner is going to be someone who
00:45:02
wants to say I own NY Mag. It's like
00:45:04
going billionaires own football teams.
00:45:06
Democrats own media companies. It'll go
00:45:08
for
00:45:09
>> So Scott will be buying it soon.
00:45:10
>> It's a trophy asset.
00:45:12
>> It's a No, I'm sponsoring the Met Gala.
00:45:14
I don't know if you heard. And I'm
00:45:16
taking Emily Rodicowski. If that's what
00:45:18
it takes
00:45:20
her because you didn't introduce
00:45:21
yourself when you were in her presence.
00:45:23
>> I got is I got texted Vanessa Freeman
00:45:25
who I think is a wonderful writer that
00:45:26
covers fashion text me. He's like, "Do
00:45:28
you have any thoughts on the Met Gale
00:45:30
and Jeff Bezos?" I'm like, tech has way
00:45:32
too much money, way too little cool.
00:45:34
Fashion has way too little money, way
00:45:36
too much cool. This is an exchange of
00:45:38
value.
00:45:38
>> Yes. A good quote. Good.
00:45:40
>> This is the most expensive midlife
00:45:42
crisis in history. Wouldn't it be easier
00:45:44
for these guys just to buy a Ferrari and
00:45:45
start banging their assistance
00:45:47
>> or penis enhancement
00:45:48
>> versus sponsoring the medala? But
00:45:50
anyways,
00:45:50
>> back to New York. Yes, it will sell. We
00:45:52
know this. So,
00:45:53
>> so NY Mag will go for an irrational
00:45:55
price.
00:45:56
>> My arm
00:45:56
>> and then the trophy assets. And I'm not
00:45:59
talking my own book here because PropG
00:46:00
is independent. We just sell our ads
00:46:02
through Vox, but Pivot is co-owned by
00:46:04
Yum, Mei, and Vox.
00:46:05
>> Well, no, they don't own it. We own it
00:46:07
and they're our partner for the next
00:46:08
three years. I wish you would do that
00:46:09
correctly. People think they own it, but
00:46:11
they don't. We do.
00:46:12
>> Okay. We own We own it. Uh, and we can't
00:46:14
do anything with it for the next three
00:46:15
years. But anyways, the
00:46:16
>> That's okay.
00:46:17
>> Uh, those are the assets. podcasting at
00:46:20
Vox and I'll just talk about us uh is
00:46:24
growing, you know, 25 plus percent a
00:46:26
year, maybe 30% a year. And when they
00:46:29
and when they get scaled, they're
00:46:30
amazing businesses because quite
00:46:31
frankly, there's just not there's not a
00:46:33
lot of cost involved in these things.
00:46:36
And you're seeing and quite frankly, I
00:46:38
also think we're benefiting from Trump
00:46:40
to the extent that I think people are
00:46:41
really hungry for thoughtful,
00:46:44
I don't want to call it progressive, but
00:46:45
a thoughtful push back.
00:46:47
>> We But we also do good. You did Warner,
00:46:49
I did Tillis, we do all kinds of manner
00:46:51
of things.
00:46:52
>> Anyways, the the the crown jewel is is
00:46:55
the Vox Media podcast network. But the
00:46:57
the thing that makes the most sense
00:46:58
here, which is what Jim is doing, is
00:47:01
that when you have a conglomerate that
00:47:03
doesn't have really obvious synergies,
00:47:05
which quite frankly I would argue this
00:47:06
one doesn't. People, the market looks at
00:47:09
the shittiest asset in the portfolio,
00:47:10
which is these digital properties, and
00:47:12
it assigns that valuation to the entire
00:47:14
thing. So the disposition of assets is
00:47:16
accretive to shareholders and Jim has
00:47:19
figured that out and he's going to split
00:47:20
up the company and he's going to have a
00:47:21
very focused podcast company that tries
00:47:23
to industrialized podcasting and video I
00:47:26
would say because podcasts are video now
00:47:28
>> that's that's a great point because
00:47:29
effectively what you have is podcasts
00:47:32
are the new TV shows with a lower means
00:47:34
of cost of production but I would argue
00:47:37
if he sells he'll get an amazing assume
00:47:39
and I don't I again I see above I have
00:47:41
no insider information here he'll get an
00:47:43
amazing irrational price for New York
00:47:45
Mag. He could sell the digital stuff for
00:47:47
a dollar and just be a podcast company
00:47:49
growing 25% a year and it would be worth
00:47:52
more. So this it makes all sorts of
00:47:54
strategic sense. Comcast is probably
00:47:58
Comcast I think invested
00:48:00
>> Comcast did invest. Yes. And so did
00:48:02
>> Comcast was the initial investor.
00:48:04
>> Yes. But the investment went over to
00:48:05
Versent just so you know.
00:48:07
>> Well, okay. The Robert Robert's family
00:48:09
is ready to get some money back. They've
00:48:12
been in this thing for 10 years, 11
00:48:14
years. They've probably said, "Okay, we
00:48:16
want some money back. You need a
00:48:17
strategy here."
00:48:18
>> I think it's going to be very
00:48:19
interesting to see.
00:48:20
>> Yeah, we'll see. One of the things that
00:48:21
I think reporters have gotten wrong
00:48:22
about it, and I I'm not going to say
00:48:24
much more because I do know a lot is you
00:48:26
can't, one of them is like you can pick
00:48:28
off these podcasters what's it worth
00:48:29
because you can you actually can't once
00:48:31
you have a good and Scott and I went out
00:48:33
in the market and looked at lots of
00:48:34
people and there a lot of them were
00:48:35
great, but a lot of them don't have
00:48:38
stuff, right? And so this would be
00:48:39
attractive to people who it's really
00:48:41
hard to sell advertising well. It's
00:48:43
really hard to do distribution well.
00:48:45
It's very hard to do production well.
00:48:47
And Vox does that well. And there's a
00:48:49
couple of companies like that that do it
00:48:50
well too. There's Crooked I think does a
00:48:52
nice job. So it's valuable and it's not
00:48:55
as easy to replicate as you think. And
00:48:57
getting picked off is you sign four-year
00:48:59
deals everybody. And some of people have
00:49:01
guarantees. We don't happen to have that
00:49:03
but uh because we wanted more more
00:49:05
revenue to us. Um, but it's harder to do
00:49:08
than you think. And even if you're not
00:49:10
satisfied with the advertising sales or
00:49:13
whether you got big or not, it's there.
00:49:16
Box is one of the better ones, which is
00:49:18
why we stayed, right? And and and we
00:49:20
could certainly sell our own
00:49:22
advertising. It's just a slog and it's
00:49:24
hard. It's really hard to do it well.
00:49:26
And so it is an attractive asset and
00:49:29
there's a lot of people this could plug
00:49:30
into a lot and just use your
00:49:32
imagination. And also not just companies
00:49:35
but individuals who want platform who
00:49:37
want
00:49:37
>> CNBC needs to do something.
00:49:39
>> Exactly. That mean you know you're
00:49:42
seeing CNN trying to do podcasting with
00:49:44
Jake Tapper and Anderson.
00:49:45
>> CNBC is local news with with sleeveless
00:49:48
dresses and Andrew Ross Orin. I mean
00:49:50
plus
00:49:50
>> they're going to be your new friends.
00:49:51
>> By the way, why why does Joe Karen get
00:49:53
sleeves and none of the other people do?
00:49:55
Um anyways the
00:49:57
>> we do not want to see that. Mark
00:49:59
>> Brian Roberts and Comcast they are very
00:50:01
>> it's not Comcast. You have to say Vers.
00:50:04
No, it's not whatever. It's not the They
00:50:06
own only a certain portion of it as a
00:50:08
public company. It's similar. There's
00:50:10
others anyway. It would help Vers, which
00:50:12
also needs to be innovative. So, in that
00:50:14
regard, but there's lots of others.
00:50:16
>> MSNBC,
00:50:17
MS Now, I'm sorry, MS Now, MS Now and
00:50:21
CNBC need a growth strategy. They're
00:50:23
they are in businesses in structural
00:50:25
decline. The average age of M MS Now
00:50:28
viewer I think is 64. CNBC at 67. The
00:50:32
average age of a podcast listener is 34.
00:50:35
The average age of pivot listener is 42.
00:50:37
They need an audience that isn't is
00:50:39
going to be around for another 5 or 10
00:50:41
years that buys [ __ ] that is in the
00:50:43
midst of buying homes, having kids,
00:50:45
making investments, buying mutual funds.
00:50:47
And they're smart people. So they do I
00:50:50
mean CNBC does an amazing job. They have
00:50:52
some of the finest financial journalists
00:50:54
in the world. MS now has some of the
00:50:56
most talented people in the world. So,
00:50:58
but what they need is is they need a
00:51:00
structural growth engine. They need to
00:51:01
find platforms that are growing and are
00:51:03
attracting
00:51:04
>> audience. And they've been trying, but
00:51:06
they're they've definitely been trying
00:51:07
more than other.
00:51:07
>> You know who probably inspired this
00:51:09
whole idea?
00:51:10
>> Me. What? No.
00:51:11
>> Other than you is Nicole Wallace.
00:51:14
>> Yes. Because Nicole, who's got a very
00:51:17
popular show on MS Now, started a
00:51:19
podcast that immediately
00:51:21
>> went to the top of the I would bet
00:51:23
Nicole's podcast is probably doing seven
00:51:26
or 10 million a year in ad revenue,
00:51:27
which doesn't seem like a lot, but I bet
00:51:29
six or seven of that is go close to the
00:51:31
bottom line. So, you got to think the
00:51:34
folks at Versant, Comcast, Roberts, Joey
00:51:37
Bag of Donuts, HBO Now, whatever you
00:51:38
want to call it, it have said
00:51:40
>> they got to be looking, they've got to
00:51:41
be looking,
00:51:42
>> they need to be in this business. Look
00:51:44
at the charts. You and I are near the
00:51:45
top as in Pivot. Uh individually, both
00:51:48
of us are. All your market stuff are. Um
00:51:52
lots of lots of Vox podcasts are near
00:51:54
the top and over all the the network
00:51:56
ones. We're often we're always higher
00:51:59
than all of them. So anyway, it's
00:52:00
interesting. It's an interesting time.
00:52:01
We'll see what happens. And we're
00:52:02
nothing at all. Nothing at all might
00:52:04
happen. We'll see. Anyway, um uh it
00:52:07
makes sense to us though. Uh uh we'll go
00:52:10
on a quick break and when we come back
00:52:12
the White House launches an app.
00:52:15
>> Support for Pivot comes from Anthropic.
00:52:17
Some questions are easy, but other
00:52:18
questions are a lot more complicated
00:52:20
than a simple yes or no. And when you're
00:52:22
deep in the weeds trying to find an
00:52:23
answer to one of those problems, you
00:52:25
want a partner who works just as hard as
00:52:26
you do. And Claude from Anthropic was
00:52:29
designed to be that partner. Claude is
00:52:31
the AI for minds that don't stop at good
00:52:33
enough. It's a collaborator that
00:52:34
actually understands your entire
00:52:35
workflow and thinks with you. Whether
00:52:37
you're debugging code at midnight or
00:52:38
strategizing your next business move,
00:52:40
Cloud extends your thinking to tackle
00:52:42
the problems that matter. And with
00:52:43
Cloud, you can actually build
00:52:44
interactive tools and apps to help your
00:52:46
workflow. Just describe what you need
00:52:48
from custom calculators to data
00:52:50
visualization dashboards or even
00:52:52
prototypes. And Cloud can cover it all
00:52:54
without writing a single line of code.
00:52:56
Plus, Cloud's research capabilities go
00:52:58
deeper than basic web search. It can
00:52:59
have comprehensive, reliable analysis
00:53:01
with proper citations, turning hours of
00:53:03
research into minutes. Ready to tackle
00:53:05
bigger problems? Get started with Cloud
00:53:07
today at cloud.ai/pivot.
00:53:10
That's cloud.ai/pivot
00:53:12
and check out CloudPro, which includes
00:53:14
access to all of the features mentioned
00:53:16
in today's episode. cloud.ai/pivot.
00:53:22
Scott, we're back with more news. The
00:53:24
White House just launched an official
00:53:25
app for iPhone and Android featuring
00:53:27
press releases and affordability
00:53:28
tracker, and an ICE tip line. Of course,
00:53:31
the Trump administration says the app
00:53:32
offers a direct line to the White House,
00:53:34
letting people text the president sign
00:53:35
up for newsletters. But those features
00:53:37
just link to White House contacts forms
00:53:38
that are already there, letting the
00:53:40
administration access users personal
00:53:41
information and some additional privacy
00:53:43
concerns. People digging into the app,
00:53:45
it took 5 seconds, found that it's
00:53:47
tracking GPS location data every four
00:53:49
and a half minutes. It's a privacy
00:53:51
nightmare. Do not download it. Um, just
00:53:54
very briefly, then we'll get to Winston
00:53:56
Fails. I would rather give my ex-wife
00:53:59
access to my text message history than
00:54:02
sign up for I mean who is [ __ ] stupid
00:54:06
enough to do that?
00:54:07
>> I know it's not trustworthy. Don't sign
00:54:09
up for it.
00:54:10
>> You think?
00:54:10
>> No, but I mean I wouldn't mind that the
00:54:12
White House has an app. It's just this
00:54:14
one is a People were like, "Okay, a
00:54:17
company doing this, you'd call them
00:54:18
scummy. The government doing this to its
00:54:21
citizens." The same people that are
00:54:22
demanding voter roles
00:54:24
>> that are that are that are targeting
00:54:27
people that are hiring Palunteer to
00:54:29
surveil people and you want to sign up
00:54:31
for their app
00:54:32
>> don't and it's really sad because the
00:54:33
White House should have direct
00:54:34
communication with people but to help
00:54:36
people not to take advantage of their
00:54:38
[ __ ] information. These people like
00:54:40
literally but someone who does apps is
00:54:42
like I I would think this is scummy for
00:54:45
a scummy person, right? Not our federal
00:54:47
friaking government. Very typical of the
00:54:49
Trump administration. Do not get it. do
00:54:51
not get it. And also an ice tip line.
00:54:54
What kind of person are you that you tip
00:54:55
on people? Gh,
00:54:57
>> as my grand my grandfather was, you
00:54:58
know, a mob mob adjacent, I would say.
00:55:02
Not really in the mob. Um, but like I
00:55:05
hate a a rat. A rat a rat. Like, you
00:55:09
know, it's fine to say see something,
00:55:10
say something. You see a bag in an
00:55:12
airport, yes, report it. But reporting
00:55:14
on your fellow citizens is if they're
00:55:16
not criminals, if they're not criminals,
00:55:18
[ __ ] you for doing that. You terrible
00:55:20
people. Anyway,
00:55:21
>> yeah,
00:55:22
>> one more quick break. We'll be back for
00:55:24
wins and fails. Okay, Scott, let's hear
00:55:27
some wins and fails. I think I shall
00:55:29
start.
00:55:30
>> You go.
00:55:31
>> Um, I, you know, I really, I have to say
00:55:34
I really like Slope. I didn't think I'd
00:55:37
say that, but I do. I'm a Manhattan
00:55:38
girl, but I really enjoy uh being there
00:55:41
and uh spending time there. I like going
00:55:43
to different places and but I mostly
00:55:45
want to say the win is Scott Gallery for
00:55:46
being such a good landlord to me when I
00:55:48
was in New York.
00:55:48
>> That's nice. Thank you. He's been
00:55:50
generous and I love his apartment. It's
00:55:52
wonderful. I I love being in like a lot
00:55:54
I feel really good about cities and I
00:55:56
feel like New York feels great.
00:55:58
Washington does feel great. I'm going to
00:56:00
San Francisco soon. I just I'm very uh
00:56:03
I'm very up on cities these days and
00:56:05
like kind of the creativity that you see
00:56:07
everywhere um in in them and just kind
00:56:10
of just a I just love a melting pot of
00:56:12
people. I really do. Um so I really I
00:56:14
I'm I'm winds are cities again. melting
00:56:17
poted $3,000 a square foot.
00:56:20
>> Yeah. Who's melting?
00:56:21
>> No way. But I'm just saying I went all
00:56:23
over. I went all over the city and and
00:56:26
it just was I just love a city. I just
00:56:27
love a city.
00:56:28
>> I so could have predicted you to end up
00:56:29
in Brooklyn.
00:56:30
>> I No, I would have done
00:56:33
>> I would have done the West Village, but
00:56:35
Amanda really likes that area and she's
00:56:38
friends there. And I get it. And I get
00:56:39
it. I get it. I get it. Anyway, um
00:56:43
>> Oh god, you're going to have
00:56:43
Birkenstocks.
00:56:44
>> No, I'm not. I never wear Birkenstocks.
00:56:46
This is never happening. No, I wear
00:56:48
Vans. Let's be clear. All right. And my
00:56:50
fail is um Oh, God, there's so many. But
00:56:52
I think the worst one is
00:56:54
>> I mean, I was going between Melania
00:56:56
Trump's robot for teaching children,
00:56:58
which I'm like, worst idea ever. I'm
00:57:01
sorry. Like, I don't mind robots folding
00:57:02
laundry, and I'm sure we'll have them,
00:57:04
and I don't mind them delivering things.
00:57:06
Fine, whatever. But teaching children
00:57:09
should be done by people with help from
00:57:11
technology. That is fine. But this
00:57:13
personalized educators for American
00:57:15
children and her walking out there. I
00:57:16
couldn't tell which was the robot and
00:57:17
which was Melania, which is a typical
00:57:20
joke, but honestly, what an idiot. I
00:57:22
She's really What an amoronic thing to
00:57:25
to feature at the White House is a
00:57:27
featured stage and to stage the idea and
00:57:30
insulting teachers. I I my my kid just
00:57:33
got in, my little kid got into the same
00:57:35
public school Claire is in for next
00:57:37
year. And I went walked by the teacher
00:57:39
and I said, "Alex, I mean Saul got in um
00:57:43
to the class and she was like, "Yay,
00:57:45
go." And I just love I just I love the
00:57:47
teachers. They really are dedicated and
00:57:48
committed, the ones we have dealt with,
00:57:50
especially in public schools, but all
00:57:52
the schools that the kids have been to.
00:57:53
Um and so I just hated that that thing.
00:57:55
And the second one was Trump signing the
00:57:57
US currency. It was always been a
00:57:59
Treasury Secretary person. Just another
00:58:02
grotesque like look at me, mommy didn't
00:58:05
hug me moment. So just gross. Just just
00:58:09
like I can't wait till we get rid of all
00:58:11
this stuff off all all the gold in the
00:58:13
office which has gotten out of control
00:58:15
and the whole thing. I can't wait we
00:58:16
tear it all down. Every bit of it. So
00:58:19
including getting his signature off the
00:58:20
dollar when when he puts it on. Anyway,
00:58:22
Scott,
00:58:24
>> I like those. Uh so my win is and you
00:58:27
mentioned this. I watched Louis
00:58:28
Thorough's documentary The Manosphere
00:58:30
and I I really I it was very
00:58:32
illuminating for me. Um, and a few of
00:58:35
the takeaways,
00:58:37
uh, first off, these quoteunquote,
00:58:40
you know, icons of the manosphere, these
00:58:42
podcasters or the folks portrayed,
00:58:45
>> they're grifters and they don't even buy
00:58:48
the things that they don't even buy into
00:58:50
the ideology. There's always a crypto
00:58:52
scam or a trading platform.
00:58:55
>> Yeah.
00:58:56
>> Or or, you know, buy their course or
00:58:59
whatever it is. Um, and they themselves,
00:59:03
this is not about ideology for them.
00:59:05
This is just this is just purely a
00:59:07
grift. And
00:59:09
>> and I think a decent
00:59:10
>> they're selling ideology as a product.
00:59:12
>> Well, and they're also trying to sell
00:59:14
masculinity and what I would argue is a
00:59:16
decent proxy for or a decent query for
00:59:19
masculinity is simple and ask yourself a
00:59:21
question. Are you optimizing for
00:59:23
attention or for service? And these guys
00:59:26
are optimizing for attention. Full stop.
00:59:28
And the other takeaway is I thought that
00:59:32
uh Louie really did a good job of
00:59:34
exemplifying that
00:59:37
um strength is more about he's this
00:59:40
slight guy who's a bit awkward and he
00:59:44
owns the room when he's in it.
00:59:45
>> He does
00:59:46
>> because he's quiet. He asks hard
00:59:49
questions.
00:59:50
>> He's not mean. And the other thing, the
00:59:53
takeaway I think for younger men
00:59:55
watching that is it's okay to
00:59:57
occasionally absorb a blow. And that,
00:59:59
and I didn't learn this until I was
01:00:01
older, I thought if someone was rude to
01:00:02
me or coming off in traffic, I had to
01:00:04
restore equilibri equilibrium to the
01:00:05
universe and get back in their face. And
01:00:07
at one point in the documentary, his
01:00:10
subjects were making fun of him, mocking
01:00:11
him, and he just takes it. It's like, I
01:00:14
got a job to do. The other thing that
01:00:15
kind of rattled me was,
01:00:18
and I think this is true of the
01:00:19
manosphere, and it's a lesson for the
01:00:21
left, I don't think I think a lot of the
01:00:24
young men who are quoteunquote in the
01:00:26
manosphere or drawn to these these these
01:00:30
men or these I don't know what you would
01:00:31
call them grifters.
01:00:35
It's not that they necessarily buy into
01:00:37
this [ __ ]
01:00:39
um ideology of dominating women or I
01:00:42
mean actually some of these some of the
01:00:43
stuff it actually starts off fine. Be
01:00:45
fit, take control, be aggressive,
01:00:48
initiate your life, manifest success and
01:00:51
then it comes off the [ __ ] rails and
01:00:52
it's usually about just dominating women
01:00:54
and being a total misogynist.
01:00:56
>> But what you found, I thought what was
01:00:58
most interesting is when they
01:00:59
interviewed some of the acolytes, the
01:01:00
people who are really drawn to these
01:01:02
people.
01:01:03
>> Inspiration. It's really upsetting
01:01:06
because what these kids, what these
01:01:08
boys, and they aren't boys, what they're
01:01:09
looking for,
01:01:10
>> Yeah.
01:01:11
>> they're not, it's not that they're drawn
01:01:13
to this ideology or this political
01:01:15
viewpoint. It's not even they're drawn,
01:01:16
I I don't think, to the misogyny.
01:01:19
>> They're drawn and they're so desperate
01:01:22
for community.
01:01:23
>> They are.
01:01:23
>> They want a reason to hang out with and
01:01:26
have a common bond
01:01:28
>> among other young men.
01:01:29
>> Yeah. They want to get better. They want
01:01:31
to feel better about themselves. They
01:01:32
want to improve This is where the left
01:01:34
has failed.
01:01:35
>> Mhm. I agree.
01:01:36
>> What orthodoxy or ideology on the left
01:01:38
creates a community for young men.
01:01:41
>> Yeah. What is it?
01:01:41
>> You you said that early on when
01:01:43
commisers didn't have stuff on her thing
01:01:45
about men. I don't think they
01:01:46
>> tell young men they're the problem.
01:01:47
That's not a community to rally around.
01:01:49
>> And pointed that out. And I think I
01:01:51
think what we have to do is like feel
01:01:53
like we're in it. Like I I the questions
01:01:56
I got, you know, I have expert
01:01:57
questions. One was for the guy who did
01:01:58
adolescence, Jack. And then I had
01:02:00
Gretchen Whitmer ask a question which
01:02:02
who's been doing a lot of man boy stuff
01:02:04
in in the state because she understands
01:02:07
it and so you're right. You're 100%
01:02:10
right. Okay.
01:02:10
>> Anyways, my win I thought Louis Thorough
01:02:12
documentary the manifest I found it so
01:02:14
rattling. I thought these young men just
01:02:17
so sad. One one of the young men he was
01:02:19
talking about his brother took his own
01:02:20
life. You could tell these young men are
01:02:22
just so desperate to find community and
01:02:25
a sense of safety and and other people
01:02:27
who it's not even the ideology they're
01:02:30
bonding over. They're just bonding.
01:02:32
Anyways, uh that's my win. My fail is
01:02:35
that I can I believe that the Democrats
01:02:38
continue to show a lack of creativity
01:02:39
and leadership around a series of
01:02:41
incentives of what they are going to do
01:02:43
and spell it out very specifically what
01:02:46
they are going to do when they get
01:02:46
control of the House and potentially the
01:02:48
Senate. And it should be something along
01:02:49
the lines of the following. Everyone is
01:02:52
saying, "Oh, we can't go after these
01:02:54
individuals despite their crimes because
01:02:55
they're just going to get a pardon."
01:02:57
[ __ ]
01:02:58
If you look at the law, once once
01:03:02
Democrats control of Congress and
01:03:04
Senate, they have subpoena power. Once
01:03:06
they get subpoena power, they should go
01:03:08
after specific individuals for crimes.
01:03:10
And then they should coordinate, and
01:03:11
this is the key, with the attorney
01:03:13
generals in blue states and start going
01:03:16
after these individuals who are no
01:03:17
longer protected by federal pardons. So,
01:03:21
for example, the attorney general in
01:03:22
California might decide that if a trade
01:03:25
on crypto went through and that family
01:03:28
members of the Trump administration were
01:03:30
illegally manipulating markets or
01:03:32
engaging in any sort of insider trading
01:03:35
that California AG can coordinate with
01:03:37
Democratic representatives to bring a
01:03:39
case against them and that case is not
01:03:41
subject to the protections of a federal
01:03:43
pardon. They need to sooner rather than
01:03:45
later put these people on notice that if
01:03:48
you are murdering people uh under the
01:03:51
oposes of a secret police, if you are
01:03:53
lying under oath, if you are engaged in
01:03:55
crypto scams, if you have companies that
01:03:57
overnight get contracts from the
01:03:58
military violating the imalments clause,
01:04:01
be clear,
01:04:02
>> it's crazy. and a a a candidate for
01:04:05
president or a senator or Democratic
01:04:07
representatives should outline specific
01:04:09
cases they are going to bring against
01:04:12
specific individuals in coordination
01:04:14
with specific AGS in specific states
01:04:17
that are not protected by a presidential
01:04:20
pardon.
01:04:21
>> Yeah.
01:04:21
>> And and who's done that?
01:04:24
>> Mhm.
01:04:24
>> [ __ ] nobody.
01:04:26
>> Some of these attorney generals are
01:04:27
working at it. Scott, I think that's not
01:04:28
fair. I think they are preparing them.
01:04:30
>> We got close
01:04:31
>> Yeah.
01:04:31
>> with what was her name? Fanny Hill.
01:04:33
Fanny
01:04:34
>> in Georgia, the Fulton County.
01:04:36
>> Yep.
01:04:36
>> But unfortunately, she like Chrissy
01:04:38
Gnome was [ __ ] her number two, which
01:04:40
blew that case apart.
01:04:42
>> Yes, that did.
01:04:43
>> But there is real opportunity here.
01:04:45
>> There is. I think there's more. I'm
01:04:47
being contacted by a lot of I think
01:04:48
attorney generals are really starting to
01:04:50
coordinate quite a bit on around these
01:04:51
things. And one of the things that's
01:04:53
critical for all of you people waiting
01:04:54
for a Trump pardon. Remember, he's not
01:04:56
going to give it to you till the very
01:04:57
end because he's loyal only to himself.
01:04:59
And he's going to extract something from
01:05:00
you. And that might be too late. So
01:05:03
>> I'm saying take that off the table.
01:05:04
>> Yeah. No, I know. But I'm just saying it
01:05:06
just I think a lot of people are gonna
01:05:08
get
01:05:08
>> if the AG in Minnesota is saying you
01:05:10
committed manslaughter and you lied
01:05:12
under oath and as a result we have an
01:05:14
ICU nurse who was who is buried.
01:05:18
We can come after you. Presidential
01:05:20
pardon or not. And these are the people
01:05:22
we're coming for. And these are the
01:05:24
subpoenas we're issuing when we're in
01:05:25
control of Congress and the Senate.
01:05:26
Okay. Anyways, that's my that's my fail
01:05:28
is I think the Democrats need to start
01:05:30
punching back more creatively and more
01:05:32
aggressively.
01:05:33
>> I like it. I like it a lot. Okay, we
01:05:35
want to hear from you. Send us your
01:05:37
questions about business, tech, or
01:05:38
whatever is on your mind. Go to
01:05:39
nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for
01:05:41
the show or call 8551 pivot. Elsewhere
01:05:43
in the Karen Scott universe from the
01:05:45
latest episode of On with Cara Swisser,
01:05:47
I spoke with North Carolina Republican
01:05:49
Senator Tom Tillis. We talked about his
01:05:51
upcoming retirement and how he can more
01:05:52
freely criticize the Trump
01:05:53
administration right now. Let's listen
01:05:55
to a clip. I have expressed my concern
01:05:58
in the past. I no longer have to worry
01:06:01
about what language I use to communicate
01:06:04
it because I don't have to go through
01:06:05
the cost.
01:06:06
>> You can be clearer than some of your
01:06:08
colleagues because I have to tell you
01:06:09
when I talk to some of your colleagues
01:06:10
off the record, the Republicans, they're
01:06:12
much more critical of Trump or
01:06:13
>> of course. But look, I mean, you know
01:06:15
what all martyrs have in common? What?
01:06:17
>> They're dead. And in politics, that's
01:06:19
losing elections.
01:06:21
>> Very smart guy. Very interesting guy.
01:06:23
But some people call him too late. Tell
01:06:25
us that he's done he always thought this
01:06:27
and didn't say it. Other people think,
01:06:28
well, good for him. And he is actually
01:06:30
holding up uh the the the Fed chair
01:06:33
thing because of the [ __ ] uh thing
01:06:35
and he's holding up a lot of stuff. He
01:06:37
helped get Christy Gnome out of there.
01:06:39
So I'm you know whatever. My friend Neil
01:06:41
Brennan, he was he said something very
01:06:44
>> cogent and he said despite the
01:06:45
temptation to say you idiots, we told
01:06:47
you so or whatever,
01:06:49
>> we need to be really good at welcoming
01:06:51
anybody, right? And praising anybody.
01:06:53
>> Yeah,
01:06:54
>> I agree. I agree. I think he's been he's
01:06:56
going to be very effective through
01:06:57
January of getting stuff cuz he's he's
01:07:00
he's a very complex politician who's
01:07:02
very behind uh gay marriage and stuff
01:07:04
like it's he's a complex conservative
01:07:06
and that's what we should.
01:07:07
>> When you say behind gay marriage, you
01:07:08
mean against it? No, for he helped pass
01:07:11
it when he was in North Carolina or
01:07:12
something of protections. He's he's much
01:07:14
more um complex as a as a politician and
01:07:17
we should allow our conservative and
01:07:19
liberal politicians to be complex and
01:07:22
maybe not fully be on board with the
01:07:24
purity test on either side. Agreed.
01:07:26
>> Okay, that's the show. Thanks for
01:07:27
listening to Pivot and be sure to like
01:07:28
and subscribe to our YouTube channel.
01:07:30
We'll be back on Friday.
