00:00:00
I wonder if Donald Trump is watching
00:00:01
Heated Rivalry. Interesting.
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Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York
00:00:11
Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast
00:00:13
Network. I'm Cara Swisser and welcome to
00:00:16
2026.
00:00:17
Scott is still away at uh undisclosed
00:00:21
location. I can't go into it, but
00:00:22
there's so much going on that I've
00:00:24
assembled a super group of smart folks
00:00:27
to help me cover it all. We've got Don
00:00:29
Lemon from the Don Lemon Show, Stephanie
00:00:32
Rule from MS Now's The 11th Hour, and
00:00:35
Brooke Hammerly, communication
00:00:36
specialist, podcaster, and culture guru
00:00:38
of Tine, the Pop Culture Monday's
00:00:40
newsletter. I want to talk about 2026
00:00:43
going forward. So, I put this team
00:00:44
together that could talk about anything.
00:00:47
Welcome everybody. We've got to dig into
00:00:49
a bunch of things and each everyone's
00:00:51
going to sort of focus on Stephanie with
00:00:53
business, Don politics, Brooke with
00:00:55
culture, but anybody could weigh in on
00:00:56
anything at all. So any thoughts would
00:00:59
be great. Um, so President Trump says
00:01:00
the US is in is quote in charge of
00:01:03
Venezuela following the capture of
00:01:05
Venezuelan President Nicholas Maduro and
00:01:07
his wife over the weekend. As we record,
00:01:09
the two are set to be arraigned in a
00:01:10
Manhattan federal court on drug
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trafficking weapons charges. Trump is
00:01:14
also putting pressure on Venezuela's
00:01:15
acting leader, warning if she doesn't do
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what's right, she's going to pay a very
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big price. I don't know what that means.
00:01:20
He's not backing Venezuela's opposition
00:01:22
leader reportedly because he's annoyed
00:01:24
she won the Nobel Prize over him and
00:01:26
then didn't give it to him. Trump is now
00:01:29
threatening Colombia. Colombia saying
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and saying Cuba looks like it's quote
00:01:34
ready to fall and talking about taking
00:01:35
Greenland again. I don't know what's in
00:01:37
his wedies. It seems to be part of his
00:01:39
Donroe doctrine as he's coined it after
00:01:42
the Monroe doctrine for those who know
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history. Um it sounds just as idiotic as
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it seems. Uh Don, let's start with you.
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There's a lot to get to, but let's start
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with the big picture. What is happening
00:01:52
over there at the White House? And what
00:01:53
do you make of all this? Obviously,
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there's Epstein issues, uh, economy
00:01:57
issues, healthc care issues that he may
00:02:00
be trying to avoid, but thoughts?
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>> Well, I think the obvious is that it's
00:02:04
chaos. I mean, it's chaotic for the
00:02:06
country. It's it's bad for the country.
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Um, I think that I believe and I think
00:02:10
Cara, maybe you you have said this as
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well and I agree with you if you did say
00:02:13
say it is that I I think that Donald
00:02:16
Trump has been surprised by how much
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he's been able to get away with. And
00:02:20
every time he gets away with something,
00:02:22
it emboldens him to do something else.
00:02:24
Uh, to do something that's even worse. I
00:02:26
was listening to
00:02:28
um a podcast over the holidays and it
00:02:31
had quotes from Barack Obama uh in there
00:02:34
and everything he said about what was
00:02:35
going to happen in the second Donald
00:02:37
Trump administration really came true.
00:02:39
And he said, and I'm paraphrasing here,
00:02:41
he said, "We've seen this movie before
00:02:43
and we know the sequel is always worse."
00:02:45
And so the more Donald Trump gets away
00:02:48
with, if he is allowed to pardon people
00:02:49
and there's not enough uproar about it
00:02:51
and nothing happens and he's going to um
00:02:53
pick he's going to arrest people without
00:02:55
due process on the streets or detain
00:02:57
them uh even if they're American
00:02:58
citizens or he's going to invade
00:03:00
sovereign countries. Now I think
00:03:02
everyone on this panel and everyone can
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agree that something needed to be done
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about Maduro. He's a bad person, but
00:03:07
it's just the way that he did it. And um
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look, how can a tyrant,
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>> right,
00:03:16
>> arrest or detain another tyrant?
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>> It doesn't make sense.
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>> Rather easily, as it turns out,
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>> rather easily. And just real quickly,
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what he's doing though, I believe, is
00:03:24
setting a precedent because um from from
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the from what he said is that Maduro was
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this and that. He's a tyrant and he was
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a criminal and he did all these things.
00:03:32
He um he tried to overturn an election
00:03:34
or he did he influenced an election,
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which is the very same things that
00:03:37
Donald Trump tried to do. and he's also
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a criminal. So,
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>> which Gavin Newsome pointed out online.
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>> So, why does Donald Trump get to get
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away with it and Maduro doesn't? It
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doesn't make sense.
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>> So, make sense.
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>> Make it make sense. Yeah. Make it make
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sense to make US oil companies. They've
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talked about that into Venezuela to
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rebuild the industry and that happened
00:03:57
in I think 98. Um, as of this recording,
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oil stocks are surging and the price of
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oil is holding steady. Um, talk a little
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bit about the business implications
00:04:06
because most people feel like it's about
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oil, but I think it's about a whole lot
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more than just that, obviously.
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>> Well, what it's not about is drugs,
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right? Donald Trump uh over a dozen
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times this weekend said oil. Uh, we
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heard Marco Rubio say this is about
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freeing oil for the people. What people?
00:04:25
And to me, one of the biggest tells was
00:04:27
on Air Force One when Donald Trump was
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asked, "Did you speak to American oil
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businesses before?" And he said, "I
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spoke to them before and I spoke to them
00:04:37
after." Okay? Congress was not notified,
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but businesses were. That's how
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autocracies run. That is not how a
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democracy runs. And it's important to
00:04:48
remember that American oil companies
00:04:51
entered into risky deals to develop oil,
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Venezuelan oil, years and years ago.
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Those deals were cancelled by the
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Venezuelan government.
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>> Yes, correct. Before Maduro. What's
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happening now? We are now making an
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aggressive move that are going to we're
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now going to spend an enormous amount of
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money and human capital, sending
00:05:13
American troops down there for us for US
00:05:17
oil businesses, who by the way, it's
00:05:20
unclear if they actually asked the
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president for this or not because yes,
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they're all going to shuffle down there
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and figure out how we going to make a
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whole lot of money out of this. But
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remember, it's not like Donald Trump
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saying today, "We now control
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Venezuela." They're not going to turn on
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the spots and money is now going to pour
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into this country. This will now cost
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our government
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billions of dollars, right, to to to now
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go down there and to to secure it. And
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now these companies are going to decide,
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are they going to spend hundreds of
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billions of dollars or at least a
00:05:53
hundred billion dollars in the next
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decade because that's how long it's
00:05:56
going to take to then get this oil
00:05:59
business opportunity to come to
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fruition. My question is who are the
00:06:03
American people? We know in the last 10
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months all that Donald Trump has done to
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please the tech community or all that
00:06:11
he's trying to do to please Wall Street.
00:06:12
And and I think this is a quick
00:06:14
important reminder when they say Wall
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Street loves this. I spoke to a bank CEO
00:06:18
yesterday that said, "We were positioned
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for this. We went long Venezuela. We
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went long Pedesa, which is the
00:06:23
stateowned oil and gas company, a week
00:06:26
ago, and they were positioned because
00:06:28
the market's going." Investors can sell
00:06:30
everything tomorrow, right? Something
00:06:33
there's a there's a
00:06:36
a conflict. They can buy today, they can
00:06:38
sell tomorrow. They're out. What hurts
00:06:40
government and the American people? We
00:06:42
can't make giant long-term, you know, we
00:06:45
have to make giant long-term decisions
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as a government. We don't operate like
00:06:49
day traders. And so when Wall Street
00:06:51
says this works for me today, it works
00:06:53
for them today until China tomorrow
00:06:55
says, "Oh, hold on. Are you ready for
00:06:57
what we're going to do with Taiwan?" If
00:06:59
this is Trump's strong man move, giddy
00:07:01
up. Look what we could do here. And so
00:07:03
that's where Wall Street, and I'll stop
00:07:05
talking now. That's where Wall Street is
00:07:06
sort of two minds. On one hand, they're
00:07:09
like, "Money's coming in. This is an
00:07:11
opportunity. Great, we're going to
00:07:12
unleash this. But on the other, now that
00:07:14
there's no rules in the jungle, right?
00:07:17
Now that we're in we're breaking
00:07:18
international law and and world norms,
00:07:21
what could happen around the world? And
00:07:22
that's what
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>> the other thing is for now. For now, cuz
00:07:25
he's got a short amount of time here.
00:07:27
It's only a couple of months and then
00:07:28
they're stuck. Brooke, she was just
00:07:30
saying on social like all the things
00:07:31
that are going on, MAGA really reacted
00:07:34
in very different ways. Obviously
00:07:35
Marjorie Taylor Green was against it,
00:07:36
but a lot first. America first. But some
00:07:39
of them weren't. They were they were um
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there was also a lot of there was a ton
00:07:44
of stuff going viral on Tik Tok such as
00:07:46
Madero's outfit. I mean let let's be
00:07:49
clear the cuz cuz the kids are driving
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the culture the cultural conversation.
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Maduro is now a fashion influencer. It's
00:07:58
unbelievable that picture of him on the
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airplane in the it turns out to be a
00:08:02
Nike suit. It's a Nike tech suit and he
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had what people were saying where it was
00:08:07
like an eye patch but it was clearly
00:08:09
goggles to cover his eyes. But there are
00:08:12
so many memes about his fashion. The
00:08:14
viral memes have gone crazy. They have
00:08:16
him as a fashion icon. I mean your
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friend Baratundai posted a picture of
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himself in the sweatsuit saying like I
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already own this. It's
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>> comeing becomes comedy. It's become kind
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of serious and it couldn't be less
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funny. Correct. the core of all of this,
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right? We can't while we're criticizing
00:08:34
what the president did or the way he did
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it, Maduro is a horrible, awful, awful
00:08:39
man, an oppressive leader. And so
00:08:42
Venezuelans and Venezuelan's Americans
00:08:44
are thrilled to see this man out of
00:08:46
power. But Cara, you're asking the most
00:08:48
important question with now what? But
00:08:49
the absurdity of him now being a fashion
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icon is so absurd in every way.
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>> But that shows you where our culture is
00:08:57
going. And I believe it shows you what
00:08:58
the the just the
00:09:01
>> the grossness that the MAGA folks have
00:09:03
just injected into society in the
00:09:06
culture. And it's also social media as
00:09:07
well.
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>> It's social media. I mean I for me it's
00:09:10
not as much MAGA as it is the kids that
00:09:12
are turning you know they have they've
00:09:13
created like a DJ set with him and he's
00:09:16
now become this sort of you know Chay
00:09:19
Graa kind of person that the kids are
00:09:21
like you know he's somebody to now look
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up to Don I think it's way more Tik Tok
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nation than it is MAGA and this is going
00:09:30
to be so challenging for America first
00:09:32
MAGA like I'm thinking about my mother
00:09:34
Louise Rule who always argues like I'm
00:09:37
sorry Stephanie we can't thinking about
00:09:38
foreign policy. There's kids in West
00:09:40
Virginia who can't even go to a good
00:09:42
school. People who live in West Virginia
00:09:44
aren't think certainly or or around the
00:09:47
you know that original MAGA base who
00:09:50
says I'm a forgotten American
00:09:52
>> is not being remembered when it comes to
00:09:54
what we're doing.
00:09:55
>> Well, MAGA is morphing right now. Don't
00:09:56
don't forget that MAGA that Tik Tok is
00:09:59
becoming MAGA. Remember who's going to
00:10:01
take over the algorithm of Tik Tok?
00:10:03
That's going to be the Ellison. They are
00:10:05
MAGA. If you are on Tik T Yeah. Well,
00:10:07
they're going to have
00:10:07
>> well they Oracle will own 15%. Let me be
00:10:10
clear.
00:10:10
>> So, but but let me say if you are on
00:10:12
TikTok and if you if you are you've
00:10:14
noticed that your algorithm has changed
00:10:16
and if you are if there's more pro MAGA
00:10:18
stuff that gets elevated than stuff that
00:10:21
is anti-MAGA or that just tells the
00:10:23
truth about Donald Trump. So, Tik Tok I
00:10:26
believe from my experience with Tik Tok
00:10:28
that it is MAGA.
00:10:30
>> It is MAGA.
00:10:31
Last question for for for for you, Don,
00:10:34
and maybe Stephanie, you can add to it,
00:10:36
is what is um what does Congress do?
00:10:39
They come back this week, right, at some
00:10:41
point. Um what happens here? What do
00:10:43
they do? Because they've been rather
00:10:45
quiet about, you know, uh Rubio was all
00:10:48
over the all over the TV, all over the
00:10:51
place talking about, you know,
00:10:53
justifications which are different than
00:10:54
Donald Trump's just, but they were
00:10:56
talking it up, that's for sure. So, what
00:10:58
happens next? Well, I think Congress
00:11:01
will make a lot of noise and then do
00:11:02
nothing as they always do sadly. I mean,
00:11:04
they need to do more. They could start
00:11:06
some sort of procedure. They can just do
00:11:08
hearings. They can demand something. You
00:11:10
know, Chuck Schumer, you know, actually
00:11:12
said the fbomb. Well, that, you know, to
00:11:13
hear that coming out of Chuck Schumer's
00:11:15
mouth, but he should have been he should
00:11:16
have had that energy a long time ago. He
00:11:18
should have had this years ago before
00:11:21
Row was overturned. You know what I
00:11:23
mean? Before Donald Trump got elected
00:11:25
the second time, they should have had
00:11:26
the balls, as you said, to do something.
00:11:28
and they're not. So, I blame both the
00:11:30
Democrats and the Republicans. I mean,
00:11:32
obviously the Republicans are
00:11:33
>> What's next from your perspective?
00:11:35
>> I think the Republicans because if women
00:11:36
were in charge, we know how to
00:11:38
multitask, right? And when you think
00:11:40
about we know how to multitask and and
00:11:42
while Venezuela is hugely important,
00:11:44
it's going to occupy Congress. It's not
00:11:47
occupying the daily lives of the
00:11:48
American people. And the American people
00:11:50
are about to wrestle with soaring health
00:11:52
care costs, affordability problems, and
00:11:55
we've got I'm not I'm certainly not
00:11:57
going to say a labor crisis by any
00:11:59
means, but we've got a ten a tenuous
00:12:02
labor situation uh happening in this
00:12:04
country right now. So So lawmakers are
00:12:07
going to go back. They've got to deal
00:12:09
with Venezuela, the amount of effort and
00:12:11
time and money we're going to spend
00:12:12
there. And then the the issues facing
00:12:14
American people's daily lives, which are
00:12:16
the reason Donald Trump's poll numbers
00:12:18
were getting lower and lower in the
00:12:20
months leading into year's end. And step
00:12:23
finally, Brooke, what's the next viral
00:12:25
thing besides this ridiculous Maduro
00:12:27
outfit thing?
00:12:27
>> I mean, I think we're going to see more
00:12:30
of the ridiculousness. I think we're
00:12:31
going to see like the right now we're
00:12:34
seeing the fact that he's in the prison
00:12:36
that P. Diddy was in and Luigi. But then
00:12:38
here's the question, Cara. two weeks
00:12:40
from now in like truly two weeks from
00:12:43
now in Davos when every world leader and
00:12:46
business leader all gets together and
00:12:48
talks about how are we going to
00:12:49
collaborate and make the world better
00:12:51
and stronger together. What's going to
00:12:54
be the theme this year? Strong man who
00:12:56
done it. I I Yeah. Yeah. Well, what is
00:12:58
it? You're going
00:13:00
>> I am not.
00:13:00
>> I can't wait to see what Jeff Bezos
00:13:02
wears because that's what we all care
00:13:04
about with his
00:13:04
>> All right, moving on. Yeah,
00:13:06
>> I honestly think the people who attend
00:13:07
Davos are are sort of in on it, you
00:13:10
know, that they want the money. So,
00:13:11
yeah, I don't think there's going to be
00:13:12
a theme where, you know,
00:13:14
>> okay, that's a great point because but
00:13:16
but but okay, but here's the problem
00:13:18
then, Don. The idea of Davos is supposed
00:13:21
to be about thoughtful leadership. True.
00:13:24
And if where we are right now with our
00:13:26
business and political leaders is if you
00:13:28
can't beat them, join them. Let me get
00:13:30
in on the hustle. Then I guess that's my
00:13:32
question. Every year it's what is the
00:13:34
Davos man? Well, what the heck is he if
00:13:36
he's just somebody who's in on the
00:13:37
crypto hustle?
00:13:38
>> I think they're gonna sound a lot like
00:13:39
Donald Trump on Air Force One with
00:13:41
Lindsey Graham standing next to him
00:13:43
about to drop to his knees and, you
00:13:44
know, shine his shoes or whatever he's
00:13:46
going to do. They They said it out loud.
00:13:48
They said this is they said this is
00:13:50
about oil. They said Donald Trump said
00:13:52
this is about oil. And Lindsey Graham
00:13:54
said with all of the deals and all of
00:13:56
this happening, we're going to become
00:13:58
more prosperous with all of these new
00:14:00
that. So that's what it's about and
00:14:02
that's what Davos is going to be about.
00:14:03
That's it. Yeah. Is Davos relevant?
00:14:05
>> Okay. Then when are we going to talk
00:14:07
about debt and deficits? If we're going
00:14:08
to become more prosperous this way, it's
00:14:11
going to cost us an enormous amount of
00:14:13
money. So in Davos, where the biggest
00:14:16
investors and Bond daddies go, what do
00:14:18
they think about this kind of spending?
00:14:20
All right, let's go on a quick break. We
00:14:22
come back, we'll talk about what a
00:14:23
buzzy, lowbudget Canadian show means for
00:14:26
the future of entertainment. I know you
00:14:27
guys love this one. I'm back with Don
00:14:29
Lemon, Stephanie Rule, and Brook Hammer.
00:14:31
Now we're going to get into something a
00:14:32
little lighter. We have uh all the time
00:14:35
to take a lot uh we had a lot of time to
00:14:37
take in more TV shows and movies over
00:14:38
the holiday break. Um uh let's talk
00:14:41
about the breakout star of the past few
00:14:43
weeks, Heated Rivalry, which is your
00:14:44
favorite thing. Um also Tons apparently.
00:14:47
Uh Stephanie, you can weigh in too. Uh
00:14:49
explain very briefly a cultural impact
00:14:51
of the show and talk what it means from
00:14:53
a business perspective. This was a
00:14:55
lowbudget Canadian production, not
00:14:57
unlike K-pop Demon Hunter. Same thing,
00:15:00
Canadian. Stephanie said earlier what
00:15:02
was the occupying the minds of American
00:15:04
people. This is what's occupying the
00:15:06
minds of American people, which is
00:15:09
Heated Rivalry, a gay hockey drama
00:15:12
series coming out of Canada. A lot of
00:15:14
people think it's HBO because it's been
00:15:16
distributed by HBO, but it was made by
00:15:17
this country.
00:15:19
>> Yeah. In the US, it's it was made by
00:15:21
this streaming platform in Canada called
00:15:24
uh Crave. And it costs 3 to 5 million an
00:15:27
episode. Uh, compare that to Stranger
00:15:29
Things, which I think it was like 50
00:15:31
million finale episode. And what is what
00:15:35
is dominating the conversation right
00:15:37
now? It's heated rivalry in every
00:15:39
aspect. I mean, people are like, Don,
00:15:42
you've rewatched it, right? This is a
00:15:43
phenomenon. People are re-watching it.
00:15:45
People are not just watching
00:15:48
>> as the expert gay man on on the
00:15:52
But it's not just that's when you said
00:15:53
it was a gay story. It's actually a love
00:15:55
story.
00:15:56
>> It's a love story. It is a love story,
00:15:58
but people are calling it the gay hockey
00:15:59
show. But
00:16:00
>> but it is sex heavy. It is sexy.
00:16:02
>> But the most important episode of that,
00:16:04
episode five, had no sex. And what
00:16:07
you're seeing, I think it's a really
00:16:08
interesting thing. I mean, first of all,
00:16:09
do you know that according to Pornhub,
00:16:12
47%
00:16:14
of viewers of gay porn are straight
00:16:17
women.
00:16:18
>> So that's, you know, that's just the way
00:16:20
it is.
00:16:20
>> Straight women are talking about this
00:16:21
show. Straight women love this show. But
00:16:25
Brooke, let me let me let me I want to
00:16:27
challenge you on this. Is it sex heavy?
00:16:29
Or is it just people Is it just that
00:16:31
people are not used to seeing gay sex?
00:16:34
Right? Because I've seen I've seen
00:16:36
straight shows that have lots of sex,
00:16:38
more sex than this show, and no one says
00:16:40
it's sex heavy. It's just that they're
00:16:42
they're maybe not used to seeing gay men
00:16:44
being intimate on screen in that way.
00:16:46
>> I think Cara's favorite show, Hunting
00:16:48
Lives Walked, so so the these boys could
00:16:51
run. That was the that was the amused
00:16:54
bouch to this, right?
00:16:56
>> My experience in watching Hunting Wives
00:16:58
where I would leave like my family room
00:17:01
and watch it in a private area. I had
00:17:04
the same experience
00:17:06
>> because I had kids running around my
00:17:08
house. Yeah. You had mail.
00:17:10
>> I was watching the rivalry on the plane
00:17:12
last night and I was like,
00:17:14
>> "Oh my god." Okay, so wait, you know
00:17:16
what it is? Wait, you know what it is I
00:17:18
say sex heavy? Well, no. When there's
00:17:20
the presence
00:17:22
when you're aware that oral sex is
00:17:24
taking place and you have children in
00:17:27
your house like like that's sex heavy TV
00:17:30
for me that like we've established
00:17:32
regular missionary sex happens on TV and
00:17:35
both those shows feature a different
00:17:40
well talk about the two of them together
00:17:41
because you know he hunting wise is
00:17:44
coming back for a second season he
00:17:46
rivalry is
00:17:47
>> two more seasons so here's the thing I
00:17:49
think it's you have a bunch of unknowns
00:17:50
and we're also watching in particular. I
00:17:52
mean the there are three main guys which
00:17:54
are Connor Story who plays Ilia who
00:17:57
speaks if you watch Russian talk which
00:17:59
is Tik Tok with Russians. They lose
00:18:02
they're losing their minds over his
00:18:04
accent and his Russian when not just his
00:18:06
accent speaking English but his Russian.
00:18:08
This is a Texan born and raised who
00:18:10
started taking Russian lessons a week
00:18:12
before filming. It's phenomenal. You're
00:18:14
watching uh Connor's story become a star
00:18:17
and right before our eyes star is born.
00:18:19
We hope that fame doesn't corrupt him.
00:18:21
Hudson Williams who is plays uh Shane
00:18:24
Hollander is an unknown that is just
00:18:26
having an unbelievable moment. And then
00:18:28
the more the most known I loved him in
00:18:30
Shitz Creek was Francois Arnode who
00:18:33
plays Scott uh Hunter and he is the one
00:18:35
who had that pivotal pivotal episode
00:18:38
which is episode five which has zero
00:18:41
sex. So I think the they bring you in.
00:18:43
It's sexy
00:18:44
>> story. It's sexy and let let me
00:18:48
Brooke just brought up this idea of
00:18:49
unknowns and lower costs and stuff like
00:18:51
that. Talk a little bit about this from
00:18:53
a like because right now the costs of
00:18:55
Hollywood are massive and that sometimes
00:18:57
they pay off. Look, Avatar is killing it
00:18:59
at the box office, especially abroad.
00:19:02
Um, but there's a lot of these something
00:19:03
when I interviewed Ted Sarandos years
00:19:05
ago, he was like, there's no there's
00:19:07
only going to be the big ones and the
00:19:09
little ones and the middle is gone. But
00:19:12
that's why the beauty of this show
00:19:14
>> is the same stroke of beauty of
00:19:17
independent media, right? Before
00:19:19
independent media existed, when there
00:19:21
was just giant pillars, right? When
00:19:23
there was three television networks,
00:19:25
when there was three papers of note,
00:19:27
when there was three movie studios, you
00:19:29
had to work your way up and be part of
00:19:31
this giant conglomerate and marketing
00:19:33
machine. And that's the only way that
00:19:36
content could be distributed. Now, if
00:19:39
you make something magical, it can find
00:19:42
legs. It can find a home. And and that's
00:19:44
sort of the beauty of right we talk so
00:19:47
much about the the problems of social
00:19:49
media and all the you know the the bad
00:19:51
actors and so on and so forth but but
00:19:53
when you now have the system broken and
00:19:56
these unknowns can create something on a
00:19:59
small platform and then it gets
00:20:00
distributed to me like that's
00:20:02
extraordinary and that's something that
00:20:03
couldn't have happened decades ago back
00:20:06
when they were you know three studio
00:20:07
heads with their ar with their arms
00:20:09
folded running Hollywood
00:20:11
>> they were breaking what she said what
00:20:12
she said
00:20:14
what she said. Cara,
00:20:16
Cara, look, I want to say, remember when
00:20:18
we had this conversation, we talked
00:20:20
about, you know, some of the things you
00:20:21
see on independent media and independent
00:20:22
journalists and podcast. Um, you know,
00:20:25
it's it's done by a a a skeleton crew,
00:20:28
what you would call for broadcast, and
00:20:29
you walk into a big broadcast studio
00:20:31
office and you go, "What are all these
00:20:33
people doing here?"
00:20:34
>> And so, Stephanie is right. This is
00:20:36
where the media is going. There will be
00:20:38
big breakthroughs. There's going to be
00:20:39
the big guys and then I still consider
00:20:41
myself a little guy. there's going to be
00:20:43
a little guy like me. Um, but this is
00:20:46
where it's going and I think it's
00:20:48
actually fantastic because something
00:20:51
that's small can have lift as you say
00:20:54
and something that's big where it's
00:20:55
overthought like what Stephanie says
00:20:57
with these guys and people sitting
00:20:58
around going it's got to grow through
00:20:59
this or whatever that's not where we are
00:21:01
anymore. We're not there anymore. People
00:21:04
want it a little messy and authentic. I
00:21:06
think we're in a transition period and I
00:21:08
think there's space for both and I think
00:21:10
that's what's awesome about it.
00:21:11
>> What do you guys think? What I'm afraid
00:21:13
and so I'd love your thoughts is that
00:21:14
with the success and the popularity, I
00:21:16
mean it's become the cultural zeitgeist.
00:21:18
You have Steven Colbear talking about he
00:21:20
was a bossy bottom. You had Jeff Goldlum
00:21:22
asked last night on the red carpet at
00:21:24
the awards show whether or not he's want
00:21:27
>> you bring up a good point. This is going
00:21:28
to change society I believe like Will
00:21:30
and Grace did. I think
00:21:31
>> but what happens if it changes the show
00:21:33
where they're like oh now that we're so
00:21:34
popular we're gonna instead of three to
00:21:36
five million we're going to go to 20 to
00:21:38
30 million that I feel will change the
00:21:41
heartbeat of the show
00:21:42
>> got a short these all these shows now
00:21:44
have such a shorter life
00:21:46
>> if the budgets go triple right these
00:21:48
kids are now huge celebrities or
00:21:51
happened with Glee
00:21:52
>> or maybe the example that you're
00:21:53
pointing to is remember the first season
00:21:56
of nobody wants this okay nobody
00:21:59
expected it you loved every minute of
00:22:02
it. It was like what is this? It's
00:22:03
touching me. It's connecting me. And
00:22:05
then the second app which had which had
00:22:08
so much hype.
00:22:09
>> It was branding had so much branding and
00:22:12
product placement. All the people like
00:22:15
all the women like me who felt that show
00:22:17
who were connected to that show then
00:22:19
felt like you were being sold in Airbnb
00:22:22
experience. I felt it was awesome. And I
00:22:24
felt like uh I I I I felt like they had
00:22:27
this magic and it's still I'm not
00:22:29
knocking the show, but they lost their
00:22:31
magic of being this. We're just going to
00:22:33
make this that nobody wants this.
00:22:35
Literally the title, nobody wants this
00:22:37
and we're just going to make it and it
00:22:38
connected with everybody. And then when
00:22:40
season 2 came and they product placed
00:22:42
the hell out of it, there was a lot more
00:22:43
like I'm a difficulty of having you know
00:22:46
the long timelines especially with the
00:22:48
streamers like I'm thinking of Pluribus
00:22:50
another popular show.
00:22:51
>> Oh for God's sake. I listen I for a
00:22:53
mosquito just shutting
00:22:56
the show on me
00:22:58
I shall not won the what did it win the
00:23:02
awards last night
00:23:02
>> it doesn't matter like five people I
00:23:04
love the show but you cannot put it in
00:23:06
the same breath as heated rivalry I
00:23:08
shall not
00:23:10
>> but can I jump in here please not it is
00:23:13
>> can I jump in here and tell you I don't
00:23:15
think it's going to change because Jacob
00:23:17
Tyranny who you know Brooke is the he's
00:23:19
a Canadian creator of this it's adapt
00:23:21
they're They're adapting a book. They
00:23:23
have to stay somewhat true to the book.
00:23:25
A book written by a woman. And so, and
00:23:28
and I've been watching him cuz I'm
00:23:30
obsessed. My husband's like, "You're
00:23:31
obsessed with this." And so, I think
00:23:33
that Jacob Tyranny knows that it cannot
00:23:35
change. It's got to it's got to be
00:23:36
authentic and it's got to stay grounded.
00:23:39
But I here's what I just want to say
00:23:40
this one thing. You know how Will and
00:23:42
Grace changed the culture and made it
00:23:43
okay for, you know, gay people to kiss
00:23:46
uh on TV or just to have gay plot lines
00:23:48
on television. Uh, I believe that this
00:23:50
is doing the same thing to the culture
00:23:52
because as Brooke mentioned, straight
00:23:54
guys are talking about it. Hockey
00:23:56
podcast uh are are talk podcasters are
00:24:00
talking about it. People who do sports,
00:24:02
they're talking about it. Yeah. And so
00:24:04
Yeah. Empty netters podcast with a bunch
00:24:07
of white boys who are sports hockey
00:24:09
fanatics.
00:24:11
>> Last thing you would expect, they are
00:24:13
crying. They It's the biggest green flag
00:24:15
of men I've ever seen. I've never been a
00:24:17
people. Can I say one thing, Cara? Can I
00:24:19
Can I tell you a story?
00:24:20
>> Yes. Go ahead, please.
00:24:22
>> I I Okay, I'm going to tell you a story.
00:24:24
>> Going to get it in a second.
00:24:25
>> So, I don't have a sports background
00:24:26
whatsoever.
00:24:27
>> Yeah.
00:24:27
>> When I was a senior in college, I went
00:24:30
to Marty GR in New Orleans
00:24:32
>> and a boy took me to a dinner at then
00:24:35
senior in college's house, Payton
00:24:37
Manning. It was a big I at the time I
00:24:40
didn't even know who he was. He was
00:24:41
about to win the Heisman right after
00:24:42
Martyra ended. I'm sitting at a long
00:24:44
long long dinner table of all of these
00:24:47
miss football players. I know nothing
00:24:49
about Miss. I know nothing about college
00:24:50
football. But looking at a table of 45
00:24:54
boys, I say to the guy next to me, "What
00:24:57
is it like? What is the mix go with, you
00:24:59
know, like uh gay players on the team
00:25:00
and straight players on the team?"
00:25:04
Okay, this question came because I'm a
00:25:06
girl who doesn't know sports, but I know
00:25:08
math and probability and statistics
00:25:10
would tell you when dozens and dozens
00:25:13
and dozens and dozens of men are in a
00:25:15
group, there's some gay ones in there.
00:25:17
When I asked this question at this
00:25:19
dinner at Payton Manning's house in 19
00:25:21
or his parents house in 1997, my date
00:25:24
practically threw me in the bayou,
00:25:26
flipped the table out, right? For real.
00:25:29
For real. I mean, a guy hit the table
00:25:31
with both hands. What? Are you kidding
00:25:33
me? I mean, like it was I was on the
00:25:36
fast train back to Jersey and here we
00:25:38
are 30 years later and nobody's saying
00:25:42
you play hockey, you're gay. It's
00:25:44
probability and statistics. There's
00:25:46
going to be some gay guys on the team.
00:25:47
>> That's never an issue for women's
00:25:48
sports. Um, who's straight here is what
00:25:50
we say. But may I point something out,
00:25:52
Brooke? Erroneous as you think I am, who
00:25:55
among us has been invited to do a cameo
00:25:57
unheated rivalry.
00:26:00
Swiss on his camera.
00:26:01
>> No way. Cara, were you?
00:26:04
>> Yeah.
00:26:04
>> And are you doing
00:26:05
>> [ __ ]
00:26:06
>> You were a total [ __ ] I was, by
00:26:08
the way, a puck bunny when I was in high
00:26:09
school.
00:26:10
>> All the cameos, my friend.
00:26:11
>> I know. You're
00:26:12
>> What's a puck bunny?
00:26:15
>> Okay.
00:26:15
>> It's, you know, I grew
00:26:16
>> Is that like a lacrosstitute?
00:26:19
>> Is that like a groupy? Is that a
00:26:21
>> It's a groupy of hockey players. Yeah,
00:26:23
puck bunny. You were for the Rangers. I
00:26:25
grew up in Ry. That's where the Rangers
00:26:27
were. We were puck bunnies. And our
00:26:29
parents were like, "If you can get us
00:26:30
Ranger tickets, have fun."
00:26:32
>> Wow. [ __ ] you.
00:26:35
>> Brooke, can I ask you? Do you like um uh
00:26:38
Ilia and what's his name? I can never
00:26:41
remember. Which love story do you like
00:26:43
more? Do you like Ilia or do you do you
00:26:45
like Scott?
00:26:46
>> I was a Scott Hunter because that scene,
00:26:48
but I don't love Scott's boyfriend. I'm
00:26:50
just going to be honest. He's like a
00:26:51
short king. He's great, but he's not my
00:26:53
guy. But Ilia and and Shane, I'm
00:26:56
obsessed with. But Ilia, I mean I
00:26:59
Connor's story, there's this video of
00:27:01
him that he did with Interview magazine
00:27:03
where he's wearing a uh you know a
00:27:05
Gold's Gym T-shirt and he's lip syncing
00:27:07
to Madonna's Like a Prayer
00:27:09
>> and he does this all over and he Well,
00:27:12
no, that's a different one. But this is
00:27:14
one where he does this. Yeah, he's
00:27:16
Anyway, he's he's very I I can't explain
00:27:19
it, but this thing has gone so viral.
00:27:21
They're showing it in nightclubs. DJs
00:27:23
are interjecting the the video sports
00:27:27
bars. They're showing it. There there's
00:27:29
a very funny Tik Tok that's part of the
00:27:30
culture in newsletter this week that is
00:27:32
these two women that are saying like
00:27:34
dinner in a movie and their girlfriends
00:27:35
eating Chinese food out of with their
00:27:37
chopsticks on the floor watching this 30
00:27:39
secondond clip over and over again.
00:27:42
>> I wonder if tuna melts are going to make
00:27:44
a comeback because of this. Brooke,
00:27:46
>> I Okay, we're stopping now. Let me tell
00:27:48
you my favorite.
00:27:50
>> I wonder if Donald Trump is watching
00:27:51
Heated Rivalry.
00:27:52
>> You know that M I can just imagine the
00:27:55
conversation that like they Lindsey
00:27:57
Graham is watching it.
00:27:59
>> There's so many gays in MAGA and
00:28:01
Republicans. Of course they're watching
00:28:02
it.
00:28:03
>> Allegedly. All right, let's go on a
00:28:05
quick break and when we come back, I
00:28:08
want to know what you all think about
00:28:09
the biggest stories of 2026. Don,
00:28:11
Stephanie, Brooke, we're back. Moving
00:28:13
along. It's a new year. I want uh to
00:28:15
know what each of you think will be the
00:28:17
biggest stories of 2026. I want you to
00:28:18
spin it forward. Don, you'll start
00:28:21
politics or whatever. I don't whatever
00:28:23
you think, but let's politics would be
00:28:25
great, but whatever you think is the
00:28:26
biggest story going forward.
00:28:27
>> Well, I think the biggest story going
00:28:28
forward is going to be the fracturing of
00:28:30
MAGA. It's already started. The MAGA
00:28:32
media uh is starting with the Megan
00:28:34
Kelly's and the Candace Owens and the
00:28:36
Benny Johnson's world.
00:28:39
>> Yeah, they're beefing. And I think that
00:28:40
that is that is the beginning of the end
00:28:42
of MAGA. That's what I believe the
00:28:44
biggest story is going to be moving
00:28:45
forward.
00:28:46
>> Yeah. Okay. All right.
00:28:47
>> Okay. For me, you know, I'm going to
00:28:49
pick the economy because at the end of
00:28:51
the day, I think how people vote I is
00:28:54
truly rooted in their pocketbook and and
00:28:57
how they live. And what's interesting is
00:28:59
the economy is growing, but its growth
00:29:02
is fragile and it's really in the palm
00:29:04
of Trump's hands. like whether the
00:29:06
economy builds or weakens depends
00:29:09
entirely on Trump's deglobalization
00:29:13
agenda, right? Tariffs, mass
00:29:15
deportations. Um, so, so I just think
00:29:18
where we go in this K-shaped economy,
00:29:20
right, where the rich have gotten richer
00:29:22
and the poor have gotten poorer and we
00:29:24
have, and that's only getting
00:29:26
exaggerated this year. Where we're
00:29:28
headed um is is where I'm laser beam
00:29:31
focused.
00:29:31
>> Is it really growing or is it astroturf?
00:29:33
That's why cuz that K thing I'm like I
00:29:35
don't is that growth real because people
00:29:38
are a lot poorer and you need more
00:29:41
people being able to buy things than
00:29:43
fewer people being able to buy them. So
00:29:45
I don't know if that
00:29:46
>> yes but you could being it with
00:29:48
Venezuela could be there's ways to goose
00:29:51
it right to goose the economy.
00:29:53
>> The economy is certainly being gooseed.
00:29:55
We could have more federal intervention.
00:29:57
We could have more farm aid bills of the
00:29:59
like. But remember, when you're facing
00:30:02
less and less regulation in your
00:30:03
business, which is what we're facing
00:30:05
right now, you're going to see
00:30:06
businesses spend and grow. The thing
00:30:09
that's standing in the way is tariffs.
00:30:11
And Trump is fat, right fat in the
00:30:13
middle of it. But you're right. Is it
00:30:16
just astroturf? Because Cara talks about
00:30:18
this all the time. When you look under
00:30:20
the Magnificent Seven, under those big
00:30:22
giant tech companies that aren't getting
00:30:24
hurt, they're being held by AI, that
00:30:26
aren't getting hurt by mass
00:30:27
deportations. when you look under there,
00:30:29
lots of those companies are struggling
00:30:31
and if consumers um don't have the money
00:30:34
to spend or the money that they're
00:30:35
spending doesn't go so far. So that's my
00:30:38
point is it's a fragile economy and the
00:30:40
person who has his hands on the steering
00:30:42
wheel is Donald Trump and let's see what
00:30:44
he does.
00:30:45
>> So what do you what do you imagine being
00:30:46
the best case for him and the worst?
00:30:49
>> I actually think the best case for him
00:30:51
would be if the tariffs were to be ruled
00:30:54
uh illegal. That would be his most
00:30:56
graceful exit. He could say, "I wanted
00:30:59
to make America great. I wanted to bring
00:31:01
manufacturing back, but they wouldn't
00:31:03
let me." Companies would say, "Great,
00:31:05
we're not having to face these tariffs.
00:31:07
The happy days are here again." I don't
00:31:09
think that's going to happen or it's
00:31:11
going to be super messy. We'll soon find
00:31:13
out, right? Trump is the first to say
00:31:15
the market is the economy. It's not. The
00:31:18
market has done very well. It could do
00:31:20
even better. But under that, what is the
00:31:22
world going to look like with kids
00:31:23
coming out of college, can't get jobs,
00:31:25
when our health,
00:31:27
one of the things is we were looking for
00:31:29
pajamas yesterday for something? And one
00:31:32
of the things that's noticeable is
00:31:33
there's fewer items, harder to find and
00:31:36
more expensive. Even if you're, you
00:31:38
know, it was kind of not, it's
00:31:40
noticeable in every store now.
00:31:41
>> Was this online or in real life?
00:31:43
>> No, it was offline. It was offline.
00:31:44
>> But what's noticeable, Cara,
00:31:46
>> but that's how most people shop. What's
00:31:48
noticeable is the big have gotten bigger
00:31:51
and the small are getting smaller. Small
00:31:53
and mid-siz businesses could not survive
00:31:55
tariffs. If you're a giant company, you
00:31:57
could frontload your inventory. You can
00:31:59
keep cost down. If you're a small
00:32:01
business in Georgetown and you're
00:32:03
selling toys and books and pajamas, you
00:32:06
can't weather storms like this.
00:32:07
>> This was targeted.
00:32:08
>> Can I I just want to say this? I think
00:32:10
the best case scenario for him would to
00:32:11
be to completely fail with the economy
00:32:14
because Donald Trump does not like to
00:32:15
admit that he is wrong. And so if the
00:32:17
economy goes off of a cliff, that will
00:32:19
be the biggest wakeup call. It's like an
00:32:21
it's like an addict. You can't they have
00:32:23
to hit rock bottom before they make a
00:32:26
change. And I think Donald Trump the
00:32:28
economy has to hit rock bottom for
00:32:29
Donald Trump and Republicans to
00:32:31
understand that he's [ __ ] up the
00:32:32
economy.
00:32:33
>> But let me just make one final point and
00:32:35
then
00:32:36
>> we're talking about the economy for for
00:32:38
the United States of America. Donald
00:32:40
Trump is currently flanked by the most
00:32:44
powerful tech giants in the world. And
00:32:47
while we think, "Oh my gosh, look at
00:32:49
those tech guys kissing his ass. No way.
00:32:52
They have played him." A ma AI is going
00:32:54
to change every element of the way that
00:32:56
we live and we are now going into an AI
00:32:59
universe where there is absolutely no
00:33:01
regulation. The federal government is
00:33:03
even stopping state regulations. So
00:33:05
these this group of individuals, these
00:33:07
10 15 guys are becoming more powerful
00:33:10
and more successful than any people
00:33:12
we've seen in our lifetimes. And that to
00:33:15
me is the story to focus on the power
00:33:17
they have amassed. Like the whole like
00:33:19
let's eat the rich. Eat the rich is over
00:33:22
here. The mega rich that tiny sliver of
00:33:26
universe of people are so
00:33:28
extraordinarily powerful and have so
00:33:30
much control. I don't think so realize
00:33:33
richer than beyond belief.
00:33:35
>> Yes.
00:33:35
>> Correct. Correct. Absolutely. So,
00:33:37
Brooke, what do you think the biggest
00:33:38
cultural story of whatever you want?
00:33:40
>> God, there's so many. Um, but I the
00:33:43
thing that I'm thinking about as we were
00:33:45
talking about Hollywood and the business
00:33:47
of Hollywood, which is again not my
00:33:48
business, but as a voyer and as a
00:33:50
cultural sort of, you know, fan guru
00:33:53
>> guru. Uh, by the way, my newsletter
00:33:55
exists because of Stephanie and Cara,
00:33:57
because of you guys. But um I think it's
00:34:00
the marketing of these movies. For
00:34:02
example, I look at um at uh Timothy
00:34:05
Shalomé's movie Marty Supreme. This is
00:34:09
he is a very genius. It makes a lot of
00:34:12
sense why he and Kylie Jenner of the
00:34:14
Kardashian world are are paired up. They
00:34:16
have very similar mindsets of marketing,
00:34:18
how to market. This movie was marketed
00:34:20
in a way they have never seen before. If
00:34:23
you watch Tik Tok or whatnot, people a
00:34:26
lot of people were very unsure about the
00:34:28
movie. They saw it, they came out,
00:34:29
they're like, I don't know if I loved
00:34:30
it. I really don't know. But I went to
00:34:32
it. I went to it because of the
00:34:33
marketing. This was not done in a
00:34:35
traditional roll out like night the
00:34:38
night shows the late night. He did the
00:34:41
sphere. He did blimps. He got he did a
00:34:44
fashion drop and had all of these sports
00:34:46
icons wearing Marty Supreme swag. It's
00:34:49
really a whole thing. And when you're
00:34:51
seeing like, you know, there's a YouTube
00:34:53
show Allen's World, that is now I think
00:34:55
the New York Times just did a big story
00:34:56
on it. They nine like I don't know
00:34:59
billions and billions and billions of
00:35:00
views a month. And this is these are
00:35:02
shorts. This is the stuff that you know
00:35:04
the your friends Meg Whitman and what's
00:35:07
his name want to kill themselves over
00:35:08
because these shows are
00:35:09
>> Quibby
00:35:12
directionally correct.
00:35:13
>> Directionally correct. Just did have the
00:35:15
right stuff I guess. But the fact is I
00:35:18
think how like you're telling these
00:35:20
stories if whether it's big budget or
00:35:21
small budget the marketing the way
00:35:23
people are connecting to audiences they
00:35:26
are looking at this now and saying oh
00:35:27
it's not about screening
00:35:29
>> it's not doing that well for the price.
00:35:32
>> No but Cara imagine if the Leonardo
00:35:34
DiCaprio movie that came out last year
00:35:36
one battle after another this
00:35:38
extraordinary film. I'm not saying it
00:35:41
should have had the Timothy Shalamé uh
00:35:46
Kardashian their marketing plan, but had
00:35:49
they employed more creative renegade
00:35:52
marketing in a in a different way?
00:35:55
>> People now are like, "What's that Leo
00:35:57
movie? Where can I see it?" And it was
00:35:59
months ago. I think they missed th those
00:36:01
are old school and I'm not calling them
00:36:03
old but like old school Hollywood mega
00:36:06
celebrities where they probably had to
00:36:07
beg Leo to do any press at all cuz he's
00:36:11
Leo. Now you're looking back saying if
00:36:13
they would have employed some of these
00:36:15
like renegade kind of tactics, it may
00:36:17
have had a bigger impact.
00:36:18
>> Stephanie is right. You've got to have
00:36:20
uh either guerilla marketing. It's got
00:36:22
to be social media heavy. It's gota it's
00:36:25
not just you can't rely on the old
00:36:27
things of we'll put an ad here and we'll
00:36:29
do that doesn't work anymore doesn't
00:36:31
play
00:36:33
>> traditional media doesn't work in this
00:36:34
environment although sometimes it does
00:36:36
of course the Vanity Fair Susie Wilds
00:36:38
piece blew up
00:36:39
>> I'm talking about movies I'm talking
00:36:40
about getting to the guys of culture
00:36:42
>> right
00:36:43
>> listen everybody was ripping all over
00:36:44
Vanity Fair that they were like what a m
00:36:47
you know during the whole Olivia Ryan
00:36:49
thing blah blah blah we stopped talking
00:36:50
about that as soon as they nailed their
00:36:53
Susie Wild cover Those photos those
00:36:55
photos those photos were what was this
00:36:58
the
00:36:58
>> I refuse I refuse to insult those
00:37:00
photos. I take issue with everybody.
00:37:03
>> I love them.
00:37:04
>> I take huge issue with everyone going
00:37:06
after Caroline Levit and her lip
00:37:08
injections in in we can't in one hand
00:37:11
complain about decency and complain
00:37:13
about a president, you know, saying
00:37:15
things that are rude or mean and then go
00:37:17
after Caroline Levit for getting the
00:37:18
same lip injections that everybody else
00:37:20
in. I certainly don't look at it as
00:37:22
criticizing. I see it as just the genius
00:37:25
of the photographer telling a story.
00:37:27
>> No, no, no. The genius. Yes. The genius
00:37:29
of the photographer telling the story,
00:37:31
you can put in category A, but category
00:37:33
>> making fun of her. No,
00:37:34
>> making fun of what she looks like is
00:37:36
exactly what we're saying is wrong about
00:37:39
the president uh with his sophomoric
00:37:42
insults of people.
00:37:43
>> For me, it's more about them getting
00:37:44
played. They I mean if they're in the
00:37:46
White House and she's a communications
00:37:48
person, they should be smarter about
00:37:50
their communications.
00:37:50
>> As a communications person, I changed my
00:37:52
profile picture on Twitter of the
00:37:54
cesspool of what I when I use it to that
00:37:57
picture because it's like she's a
00:37:59
communications person. She should know
00:38:00
exactly what was ahead of her.
00:38:02
>> What was happening
00:38:04
going after a woman for Botox? Sister,
00:38:07
please. Who has
00:38:08
>> I think they all looked bad. I think the
00:38:09
only person who actually was on to it
00:38:11
was JD Vance. He's like, you're going to
00:38:12
make us look bad, aren't you? And I and
00:38:15
I was
00:38:15
>> well he did go to Yale University.
00:38:17
>> I know that's true. These matter of
00:38:18
fantasy, but one of the things that was
00:38:20
clear is I don't think they I think they
00:38:22
made the outside look like the inside
00:38:24
and the inside the outside look like the
00:38:25
inside. That's my feeling. It's just the
00:38:27
way they are. Um so, uh let me ask you
00:38:30
one last question. You talked about the
00:38:32
movies. What caused you to go to a movie
00:38:35
this if you did? I went to see song Blue
00:38:37
which I loved um with uh especially Kate
00:38:41
Hudson. I thought was really quite a
00:38:42
revelation. Um, in it is there. What
00:38:45
forced you into the theater? One very
00:38:47
quick answer because we got to move on
00:38:49
after that. Brooke,
00:38:50
>> I didn't go to the movies. This is the
00:38:51
first holiday season. I didn't First of
00:38:52
all, it's pouring rain in LA, but I just
00:38:54
rewatched Heated Rivalry and that Palm
00:38:57
Beach reality show that Netflix has
00:38:59
dropped, which is insane, called Members
00:39:01
Only, which is like the Mara Lago Real
00:39:04
Housewives. It is astonishingly.
00:39:06
>> Lots of lip injections. Okay. Lots of
00:39:08
lip injection. Stephanie, what about
00:39:09
you? Did you attend anything? Did
00:39:11
anything force you? did not go to the
00:39:12
movies, but I'm a bad I I I didn't go to
00:39:14
the movies even when people love going
00:39:16
to the movies. I either like to leave
00:39:18
the house dressed with high heels and
00:39:20
uncomfortable underwear or I like to
00:39:22
stay home. But like the movies to me
00:39:25
where it's like a little bit stinky in
00:39:26
there and I'm not that comfortable in
00:39:27
the chairs, that's a hard no.
00:39:29
>> Don, anything?
00:39:30
>> Same thing. I like to leave the house
00:39:31
with high heels and uncomfortable
00:39:32
underwear.
00:39:36
You know, I don't really I haven't made
00:39:38
an effort to go to the movies in years
00:39:40
because I I'm just I'm like Stephanie.
00:39:42
I'm just not that interested. Now, I go
00:39:44
to movie premieres. People invite me to
00:39:46
go to movie premieres. So, I'll go.
00:39:48
>> You know why, Don? Cuz you got to put
00:39:49
high heels and uncomfortable underwear
00:39:51
on. If you're going to leave the house,
00:39:52
you want to go out. See, this is why all
00:39:55
the noise about Netflix talking about
00:39:57
things. I think they're they're making
00:40:00
the correct argument, which is All
00:40:01
right, one more quick break. We'll be
00:40:03
back with one more question for each of
00:40:05
you. Everyone, we're back. Okay, I have
00:40:08
uh one last question for you and I I'm
00:40:10
acquiring a prediction. First up,
00:40:12
Stephanie, we talked we ended 2025 with
00:40:14
a lot of market talk about an AI bubble
00:40:17
and whether it would burst. if that's
00:40:19
what you want to talk about. What what
00:40:21
what do you what do you think your
00:40:23
prediction would be around AI?
00:40:25
>> I don't have a prediction of whether
00:40:28
it's going to burst, but all eyes are on
00:40:30
AI and certainly mine. The question is
00:40:32
like is it I is it truly the future and
00:40:35
is it going to convert every element of
00:40:37
how we're living? There are certainly
00:40:40
companies that have added AI to their
00:40:43
perspectus who are going to go bust,
00:40:46
right? Like there are elements uh of
00:40:48
the.com bust that like I remember I
00:40:51
worked in banking at the time and if
00:40:52
there was a.com next to the end of your
00:40:54
company's name, people were scrambling
00:40:57
uh uh uh to to to attend your IPO party.
00:41:00
There are companies that this isn't
00:41:02
going to work out for. However, the
00:41:04
masters of the universe in the AI space
00:41:07
and the companies that are smartly and
00:41:09
effectively uh adopting AI are going to
00:41:12
be the companies that soar into the
00:41:14
future. how that's going to transform
00:41:16
our workforce, I don't yet know. Um, so
00:41:19
I don't have a prediction of where AI is
00:41:21
going, but it's certainly our future.
00:41:22
>> Any other prediction you want to just
00:41:24
throw out there?
00:41:25
>> I would just say my prediction is while
00:41:27
people say that like the president's
00:41:28
spiraling or this and that, I don't
00:41:30
think he is. I think Donald Trump is
00:41:32
happier than ever, I think he's
00:41:33
certainly wealthier than ever. and he's
00:41:35
finally surrounded by the world's
00:41:38
richest, most powerful people who didn't
00:41:40
accept him for years and now they're
00:41:43
clinking champagne glasses and couldn't
00:41:45
be I
00:41:45
>> Melania is holding his hand again. I
00:41:47
mean, look at it.
00:41:48
>> Well, I I very much worry about the
00:41:51
future of our democracy. I worry about
00:41:52
the health of our economy. I worry about
00:41:54
the the health and safety of our country
00:41:56
and peace in the United States. That
00:41:58
particular president, while people say
00:42:00
he's a lame duck, and he is a lame duck,
00:42:02
if you think he's sad or frustrated or
00:42:04
unhappy, he's not. He was in in Trump
00:42:07
1.0 sitting in his bed in the White
00:42:09
House with his whole team saying, "No,
00:42:11
sir, you can't." Now he is surrounded by
00:42:13
yes, may I have another, and can I give
00:42:15
you an airplane and and a and some gold
00:42:18
bars? He likey. He likey. Okay, next up,
00:42:20
Don. Will the uh talk about that. Will
00:42:22
President Trump make it through the
00:42:23
year? Careful the answer. I made a
00:42:25
prediction. I'm with the Peruvian
00:42:27
shamans on this one, but um what uh what
00:42:30
uh what is your thoughts of what's
00:42:32
coming up in politics or anywhere and
00:42:33
also anything else you want to
00:42:35
>> I'm more in line with you. I'm not so
00:42:37
I'm not so sure that he's going to I'm
00:42:38
not like Stephanie. I'm not sure he's
00:42:40
he's going to make it till the end of
00:42:42
the year. Um because I think his health
00:42:45
is bad. I think they're not letting on,
00:42:46
you know, just how sick he is or or his
00:42:49
real health condition. Um and I think
00:42:52
that he is well, you think he's happy. I
00:42:55
think he's scared. I think he's afraid
00:42:56
of the Epstein files and what could
00:42:57
come. And a lot of this, including
00:42:59
Venezuela, has to do with distraction
00:43:01
from the Epstein files. And I believe
00:43:03
that's why the roll out has been so
00:43:04
chaotic because they they're trying to
00:43:06
throw people off the trail. They don't
00:43:08
want a road map. However, I do believe,
00:43:10
as I said earlier, that this is the
00:43:13
beginning of the end for the MAGA
00:43:14
movement as we know it. And I think that
00:43:16
Hakee Jeff could actually end up
00:43:18
becoming the majority leader before
00:43:20
2026. I think they're going to lose.
00:43:22
Republicans are going to lose 2026.
00:43:23
before the end of 2026.
00:43:24
>> Before the end of 2026, I think there
00:43:26
are going to be a lot of Marjorie Taylor
00:43:28
Green defectors or or enough that it
00:43:30
could change uh the balance of the
00:43:32
Congress. That's what I believe.
00:43:34
>> Balance of the Congress. Okay. Anything
00:43:35
else?
00:43:36
>> But doesn't that depend on where
00:43:37
Democrats fall?
00:43:39
>> Uh it does.
00:43:40
>> If Democrats scoop up that more center
00:43:43
space, they're there to take those
00:43:45
votes. But if they don't, then
00:43:48
>> I think if they scoop up the that center
00:43:50
space, I think that would be a mistake
00:43:52
because the movement in the party,
00:43:54
remember the people who elected Donald
00:43:55
Trump were the people who were motivated
00:43:57
to go to the polls and that were those
00:43:59
were kind of the extremes whether you
00:44:01
like that or not. I think the energy in
00:44:03
the Democratic party right now is on the
00:44:04
progressive side. It's not in the
00:44:06
center. Um the center is over for that.
00:44:09
People want
00:44:10
>> someone with balls. They want Jasmine
00:44:12
Crockett. They want AOC. And I know
00:44:14
people don't believe that, but when I'm
00:44:15
out there talking to the people, that's
00:44:17
who they want. They want Manny. They
00:44:19
love him. They love um Bernie. And I
00:44:22
don't hear
00:44:23
>> Chris Murphy has balls.
00:44:25
>> I think he does, but Chris Murphy does
00:44:27
not he does not have the riz that all of
00:44:29
those other folks have. He doesn't get
00:44:31
nearly the play. I mean I mean not I
00:44:33
don't want to be insulting. That's kind
00:44:35
of a cable news thing
00:44:36
>> for if you're out there talking to the
00:44:39
folks. They love Jasmine, AOC, Bernie,
00:44:44
and and and the like. They're not
00:44:46
talking that much about Chris Murphy.
00:44:47
They probably don't even know Chris
00:44:49
Murphy's name.
00:44:50
>> So, in that in that vein, Tim Walls is
00:44:52
abandoning his re-election campaign for
00:44:54
governor. It looks like it might be Amy
00:44:56
Clolobachar who is running and she would
00:44:58
be the first woman governor of
00:44:59
Minnesota. Um, what uh someone who is
00:45:02
very wellliked in Minnesota, by the way.
00:45:04
Um, what uh what is your prediction for
00:45:08
then a presidential candidate? What does
00:45:09
that look like?
00:45:11
>> Cuz that people will be talking after
00:45:12
November or before November before 2020.
00:45:15
>> The easy one is that it's going to be
00:45:17
Gavin Newsome. Whether he can win or
00:45:18
not, that's a whole another story. But I
00:45:20
think it's going to be Gavin Newsome. I
00:45:22
do think that um I think someone like an
00:45:25
AOC might run if she's too polarizing. I
00:45:27
don't know about that. But I think a a
00:45:30
strong ticket I believe would be um
00:45:35
Gavin and Marilyn Wes Moore
00:45:39
>> would be Wes Moore and Gavin Newsome.
00:45:40
That would be a really really strong
00:45:42
ticket.
00:45:42
>> Love him.
00:45:43
>> Yeah,
00:45:44
>> he's a handsome man.
00:45:45
>> He's a handsome man.
00:45:46
>> I just I hear everything Don is saying
00:45:48
and I think that Jasmine Crockett is
00:45:50
amazing and AOC are amazing and they're
00:45:52
exciting exciting women, but I also
00:45:54
think there are parts of this country
00:45:56
that aren't necessarily looking for
00:45:57
excitement. Look at this last election.
00:45:59
Manny had an extraordinary win in New
00:46:02
York and you saw Mikey Cheryl and
00:46:03
Abigail Spanberger win in New Jersey and
00:46:06
Virginia. And I think if you took those
00:46:09
three people and put them in I think
00:46:11
Mikey couldn't have won in New York and
00:46:12
he couldn't have won in New Jersey. So I
00:46:14
think that the key for Democrats is to
00:46:16
truly figure out for once how do you
00:46:19
become an actual big tent party? And I
00:46:22
don't know the answer.
00:46:22
>> Can I ask you a question? What does Mama
00:46:24
Rule want to do? Where is she going?
00:46:25
>> Oh, where is Mama Rule? Oh, Louise.
00:46:28
Louise, trust me, she loves.
00:46:29
>> My mom likes Marco, just so you know.
00:46:33
>> My mom certainly likes Marco Rubio.
00:46:35
She's very disappointed in what Donald
00:46:37
is doing. But Louise Rule at the end of
00:46:39
the day cares about the price of London
00:46:41
Royal. She cares about gas prices. She's
00:46:44
not focused on Maduro. And so she would
00:46:48
love, there's nothing Louise Rule would
00:46:50
love more than a George Bush Mitt Romney
00:46:52
renaissance. And sorry, Louise, that
00:46:55
Falcon Crest and Dynasty, your other
00:46:57
favorites, aren't coming back.
00:46:59
>> Stephanie, in a way though, I think
00:47:00
we're saying the same thing. I'm I don't
00:47:02
disagree with you about the big tent
00:47:04
that they have to figure that out. And
00:47:05
every candidate, Manny doesn't work in
00:47:07
Iowa. You know what I mean? It's it's
00:47:09
not going to work there. But I'm saying
00:47:10
the energy, like the loudest voices, the
00:47:12
people who are more motivated, I
00:47:14
believe, to go to the polls. But, you
00:47:16
know, look, there's a quiet there's
00:47:17
probably a quiet middle out there. Uh, I
00:47:19
don't disagree with you on that, but I
00:47:21
just think that that's, you know, that's
00:47:23
the folks that people
00:47:24
>> guess. But I'm just saying, Don, I just
00:47:26
don't know that like maybe I'm not
00:47:28
saying the country is getting sick of
00:47:30
what's like just cuz something is going
00:47:32
viral. Maybe going viral is what's
00:47:34
making us sick. And I'm not saying is
00:47:36
the answer, but I'm just saying we got
00:47:38
to find a way to be constructive.
00:47:40
>> Yeah. But I think it's constructive.
00:47:41
When I say that the the the the energy
00:47:43
is on the progressive side, the
00:47:44
progressives want universal healthcare.
00:47:46
That's not I don't believe that that's
00:47:48
conservative or liberal. I think that
00:47:49
that's a that's a right that every
00:47:51
American should have. The progressive
00:47:53
side wants a living wage for everyone.
00:47:55
And look, I'm not a Democrat or a
00:47:56
Republican. I'm an independent. But yes,
00:47:58
they do, but they they're not as
00:48:00
motivated about it. And it was an idea
00:48:02
that came from the progressive side.
00:48:04
Look at where affordability came from.
00:48:05
And now the Republicans are using
00:48:07
>> thing is the Democratic party is
00:48:08
changing. And there they're also
00:48:10
conservative versions of this in the
00:48:12
Democratic party are more Greg uh Cesar
00:48:15
um Kazar, excuse me. Um, there's all
00:48:18
kinds of people even. Um, just there's a
00:48:21
lot more congressional people. I'm going
00:48:23
to finish with Brooke. We're recording
00:48:24
the day after the Critics's Choice
00:48:25
Awards, speaking of picking and
00:48:27
choosing, which kicks off awards season.
00:48:29
Um, do they even matter, these awards,
00:48:32
ceremon do the award shows themselves
00:48:35
matter?
00:48:35
>> Yeah, I mean, there's obviously the
00:48:37
Golden Globes is coming up.
00:48:38
>> Yeah.
00:48:39
What's ahead?
00:48:40
>> I think yes and no. And very different
00:48:43
for different reasons. I mean, you just
00:48:44
had the news that the Oscars are moving
00:48:46
to YouTube in a couple years. That's a
00:48:48
big big deal.
00:48:49
>> I don't think it used to be like we all
00:48:51
would gather and watch like the Oscars.
00:48:53
We'd have an Oscar party and people
00:48:56
would do things like that. That doesn't
00:48:57
matter. I don't I think what matters is
00:49:00
the clips, right? So, we're watching
00:49:02
like like the Jeff Goldblum interview
00:49:03
yesterday about heated rivalry when he
00:49:05
was asked about the cottage has gone
00:49:07
viral. the Tik Tockers and Instagrammers
00:49:09
who are posting about uh fashion and
00:49:12
then you're hearing about movies at like
00:49:14
from the winds people care about.
00:49:15
They're like, "Oh, what is this one
00:49:16
battle after another?" So, it's not the
00:49:19
shows themselves. It's the it is the
00:49:20
viral moments. You had Timothy Shalomé
00:49:22
profess his love for Kylie. These things
00:49:24
are are which then goes into Marty
00:49:27
Supreme. So it that is the stuff that
00:49:29
that is relevant. But nobody's sitting
00:49:32
there like the majority of people aren't
00:49:33
sitting there and watching you know
00:49:34
people's speeches and all of the sort of
00:49:37
different nominees. They care about the
00:49:39
fashion. They care about the viral
00:49:40
moments and they care about those sort
00:49:41
of things that come after.
00:49:44
>> But Cara, the Olympics are in a few
00:49:46
weeks and I do think just like last
00:49:48
summer Olympics there, look at for for
00:49:51
example college football, professional
00:49:53
football, the viewership is off the
00:49:56
charts. And so I do think that there is
00:49:59
a thirst. People do want to come
00:50:01
together and watch things that are
00:50:03
joyful, that are exciting. And so while
00:50:05
they might not be sitting down and
00:50:06
saying I'm going to watch the Oscars,
00:50:08
things like the Olympics coming even
00:50:10
though Winter Olympics or live I mean we
00:50:14
we are all coming together for that.
00:50:16
It's just these awards specifically that
00:50:18
used to be these sort of like cultural
00:50:19
moments gone.
00:50:20
>> What what is your always way ahead of
00:50:22
trends? What's the trend we are not
00:50:24
paying attention to and one that should
00:50:26
be trash? I Oh, well the thing I mean I
00:50:29
I think we are starting to pay attention
00:50:30
to but this content like YouTube when
00:50:32
you're talking about billions of views a
00:50:34
month compared to like anything else and
00:50:37
what you're seeing how much money you're
00:50:38
being that is we have to see like and
00:50:40
the the the demographic for that are 7
00:50:42
to 14y old girls. It's your demon
00:50:44
hunters. It's that that is the market
00:50:47
right like forget about forget about Gen
00:50:49
Z. We're looking at alpha and whatnot.
00:50:51
So, I think that is where you're going
00:50:53
to start seeing a lot of stuff being
00:50:56
created and animation and all of that.
00:50:58
Music, music, music. And I think the
00:51:01
music aspect, whether it's live, whether
00:51:03
it's incorporated into TV shows, movies,
00:51:06
that's what we are really leaning into.
00:51:09
I I would love to put the Erica Kirk
00:51:11
memes to bed, like the Erica Kirk
00:51:13
morning tour. Like, she's still blowing
00:51:16
up. I don't want to see her anymore. I
00:51:18
don't want to
00:51:19
>> She's still blowing up.
00:51:19
>> She is still blowing up. People can't
00:51:21
get away. Hold on. He's blowing up a
00:51:24
He's blowing up a good making fun of
00:51:25
her. They're calling it the morning
00:51:27
tour. There's a whole meme going on like
00:51:28
I I mourned Subway's $5 like the loss of
00:51:33
$5 foot longer than she mourned the
00:51:36
death of her husband. And these just
00:51:37
keep going and it is in poor taste. And
00:51:40
they have remember like the guy who did
00:51:42
the um dance the Korean singer who like
00:51:44
gets shot up through the stage gangham
00:51:47
style. That's like they're they're
00:51:48
comparing her to that where she's coming
00:51:50
out on stage and then the whole story of
00:51:52
her and JD.
00:51:53
>> Don't you like it to go away?
00:51:54
>> I just But don't you think the like
00:51:56
you've got Turning Point USA raking in
00:51:59
the money and their devotees and then
00:52:01
you have people who are who are it's
00:52:03
it's a grift and then you have people
00:52:04
who are crushing her 24/7. But don't you
00:52:07
think there's an I maybe I'm naive. I
00:52:09
think there's an exhaustion of mean
00:52:12
where people are like can we move on
00:52:14
from that and just live my life forward.
00:52:16
It will go away. But it's This one has
00:52:18
had a Brooke right a longer shelf life
00:52:20
than most. Yeah. And by the way, I am so
00:52:23
I am surprised the Oscars are going to
00:52:25
YouTube. I did not know that. Do you
00:52:26
learn something new every day?
00:52:27
>> 29 29.
00:52:28
>> Oh my gosh.
00:52:30
>> Yeah. Wow.
00:52:31
>> It'll probably be better. Let me So,
00:52:33
Brooke, what is something we don't know?
00:52:34
That's the cresting.
00:52:36
>> Oh.
00:52:36
>> Slowly out in the ocean. It's a tiny
00:52:39
little ripple.
00:52:40
>> I uh I think we're going to start I
00:52:43
think heated rivalry. what we're seeing
00:52:45
is going to cause a whole new sort of um
00:52:49
moment for people to come forward and be
00:52:52
emboldened whether it's sex, whether
00:52:54
it's the things that we used to not be
00:52:56
able to talk about. You had that with
00:52:57
hunting wise you're seeing that and
00:52:59
that's coming in content that people are
00:53:01
creating.
00:53:01
>> Is there a heated ri I don't know. So
00:53:03
tell me Brooke is there a heated rivalry
00:53:06
conservative push back against it?
00:53:08
>> I I'm sure there is but I can talk I can
00:53:11
talk about that. I've seen I've seen
00:53:13
conservative um the log cabin Republican
00:53:16
type believe that it is conservative
00:53:18
coded because they are closeted. They're
00:53:21
not open about it. They are, you know,
00:53:24
they're not pushing it putting in
00:53:25
everybody's face except for that big
00:53:27
giant kiss. I I don't want to, you know,
00:53:29
ruin uh be a spoiler, but uh there the
00:53:32
conservative gays believe that it is gay
00:53:35
uh conservative coded.
00:53:36
>> There are people who believe, but I
00:53:38
don't mean conservative gays. If we're
00:53:39
talking about like the the the woke
00:53:42
pendulum swinging, right? So, if we're
00:53:44
talking about like here we were four
00:53:46
years ago and now we're you now you got
00:53:48
Andrew Tate coming over politicians
00:53:50
houses for dinner. Where does heated
00:53:52
rivalry like does that does that family
00:53:55
does that faux family values movement
00:53:57
are they mad about it?
00:53:58
>> Well, this is I don't think this is a
00:54:00
woke thing. This is a this is kind of a
00:54:02
middle This is kind of a normie kind of,
00:54:05
you know, show that has hit a that has
00:54:08
hit the zeitgeist in a way that's not
00:54:10
woke. And I do think that it's going to
00:54:11
have some penetration uh in middle
00:54:14
America like, you know, Will and Grace.
00:54:16
People may not like it initially, but
00:54:18
then it just kind of grows on you. You
00:54:20
used to,
00:54:20
>> but it is the antithesis of the Andrew
00:54:22
Tates. And that's what's so fascinating
00:54:24
to me. And there there are people that
00:54:26
are saying it's a scops whole thing that
00:54:29
was done to distract us from what's
00:54:31
going on with Trump. So there is a
00:54:33
growing group of people that believe
00:54:35
this is all a conspiracy. It's like look
00:54:37
over there. Look at gay sex over there.
00:54:40
>> But like Cara, you are you're paying
00:54:42
attention to the p like where the
00:54:43
pendulum. I think everybody I I thought
00:54:46
to me one of the great moments of 2025
00:54:48
and it paid a lot of attention was when
00:54:51
Golden performed at when the people from
00:54:53
K-pop Demon Hunters performed at Macy's
00:54:56
parade. Everybody loved it. It was run
00:54:59
by obvious I think a gay guy. You know,
00:55:01
the whole thing was very woke in a very
00:55:04
lovely way in a way that wasn't the
00:55:06
in-your-face woke. It was it's a very
00:55:09
subtle woke has learned how to how to be
00:55:12
woke now that everybody loves and I
00:55:14
think the evolution of woke it's like I
00:55:17
think heated rivals woke I think hunting
00:55:19
wives is real woke but it's a whole
00:55:21
different
00:55:22
>> but they're all MAGA in Hunting Waves
00:55:23
they're doing having lesbian but that's
00:55:27
the genius and the joke of hunting wives
00:55:29
>> that's right that's right and exactly
00:55:31
like guns MAGA lesbians it's like
00:55:34
they're [ __ ] has learned the way a
00:55:37
lot the way a lot of Cong Congress
00:55:40
people um uh Sarah McBride is a good
00:55:43
example very sly
00:55:45
lovely person she's she's you know
00:55:48
imperfect allies it's a different and so
00:55:51
Golden if you listen to that song it is
00:55:53
completely about being gay it's about
00:55:55
being like who you are but everybody
00:55:58
wants like I have the most gendercoded
00:56:03
son in Solomon he's such a dude he's
00:56:05
always showing his butt he's like I have
00:56:07
a penis, everything. He's so man.
00:56:09
>> But that doesn't mean he's toxic.
00:56:11
Correct. He's just a dude.
00:56:13
>> That's he's a dude. But I have to say I
00:56:14
said, "Do you like the Saja boys?" He
00:56:16
goes, "Oh, no. I like the girls." Like
00:56:18
there was He likes all the boys like the
00:56:21
girls. And that didn't happen with my
00:56:22
then my other sons immediately rejected
00:56:24
the girls. Now the girls are and to me
00:56:28
they are. So that when I saw people
00:56:30
respond to Golden, I was like, they have
00:56:33
no idea what they're listening to here.
00:56:35
And it's I think there's a new version
00:56:36
of woke that is going to infect the
00:56:39
whole country of
00:56:40
>> Don't you think that version has woke
00:56:42
but that's it? that version of woke,
00:56:44
those young males who who who briefly
00:56:47
got swayed into the Trump averse and
00:56:50
then said, "Hold on a second. You're
00:56:52
saying I'm not against this." They were
00:56:55
just tired, right? The profile of of my
00:56:57
oldest son is a dude. He's not a toxic
00:57:00
male, right?
00:57:01
>> And and and so when he was
00:57:03
>> when he was had his finger waved in his
00:57:05
face and yelled at, you saw those boys
00:57:07
sway. And then moments after the
00:57:09
election, they were like, "No, no, no,
00:57:11
no, no, no." And like I'm not going
00:57:13
there. So he's doing it. Exactly.
00:57:16
>> I haven't seen Hunting Wives, but I'm
00:57:19
like just in my personal life, I would
00:57:21
not be surprised to see um conservatives
00:57:24
or MAGA people doing cocaine or lesbians
00:57:28
or shooting because those are the people
00:57:30
who are doing it. In my life as a gay
00:57:33
man, my woke gay friends are the most
00:57:37
boring with kids people I know and not
00:57:40
out doing sexing and you know sexing it
00:57:43
up. But the conservatives I know, some
00:57:45
of them who are closeted, they're the
00:57:47
ones who are out partying every night,
00:57:49
who are doing the drugs, who are having
00:57:50
the case, right?
00:57:52
>> Right. And so I that would not be a
00:57:54
shock to me. So I think it's just like
00:57:56
letting people know what's
00:57:57
>> happening. Hunting wives, right? when
00:57:58
you were like, "Oh my gosh, this is a
00:58:00
full MAGA bonanza." Then the next
00:58:02
episode, you know, the ones
00:58:04
>> they have Exactly. That was Dynasty P.
00:58:07
Like, by the way, when I was a young gay
00:58:08
person in Washington DC, I would say say
00:58:11
someone rhymes with Ginsey Dam was in
00:58:13
the big gay bars. I saw that there. So I
00:58:16
just like this was this was
00:58:18
>> but I do think that the thing the trend
00:58:20
that we're seeing like you say the the
00:58:22
vans the Joe Rogan's people are
00:58:23
realizing it's not just their I don't
00:58:25
think it's because they have become
00:58:27
morally awake like Marjorie Taylor Green
00:58:29
I don't think I think they see that
00:58:30
there's more money to be made in the
00:58:32
middle there's more money to go in and
00:58:34
say actually this
00:58:36
>> leave people alone.
00:58:37
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:58:38
>> I do think that there is a this is not
00:58:39
what I voted for aspect to it. I I
00:58:41
believe them when they say that even
00:58:42
though it is what they voted for, maybe
00:58:44
they didn't think that they would be
00:58:46
rounding people up off of the streets
00:58:47
like they can prediction. I really do
00:58:51
think my prediction and it touches this.
00:58:53
I think this year
00:58:55
>> honestly love and kindness will reign
00:58:57
supreme.
00:58:58
>> People are so exhaust and I hear you Don
00:59:01
and the hate so many people even look
00:59:05
even look right. I have every incentive
00:59:07
to not want to believe Marjorie Taylor
00:59:09
Green. And when I watch her on the View
00:59:10
just talking like a reasonable broad,
00:59:13
I'm like, God, I feel you. And I don't
00:59:15
know if I feel her beyond that episode,
00:59:17
but I do think this is the year people
00:59:19
wake up and realize, let's give one
00:59:21
another a break. Life, but your words
00:59:24
have to m your actions have to match
00:59:26
your words. So, I'll give it time. I
00:59:28
don't necessarily believe it right now.
00:59:30
>> Yeah. All right. Let me ask the final
00:59:31
question though because the story of the
00:59:32
beginning of 2025 was Elon Musk at the
00:59:35
beginning, right, of him taking up Doge
00:59:37
>> Space Karen. [ __ ] him.
00:59:38
>> Space Karen. Um, what did what does I
00:59:41
want to know because he was the story of
00:59:43
20. We've forgotten since it seems so
00:59:44
long ago, but there was a whole cycle of
00:59:46
him on top and then on bottom. Now he's
00:59:48
back with Trump. He's back with Trump.
00:59:50
>> We just had dinner. He posted a video, a
00:59:52
picture.
00:59:52
>> What is his future for? This is a tech
00:59:55
show. What is he was the most prominent
00:59:56
tech figure in 2025. what happens to him
00:59:59
in 2026. I I want first Stephanie and
01:00:02
then Don and then Brooke from a culture
01:00:04
point of view. Stephanie,
01:00:05
>> listen. Doge didn't work in every way.
01:00:08
But guess what? He is more powerful than
01:00:11
ever. How when you look at SpaceX, when
01:00:14
you look at the amount of contracts, the
01:00:16
possible IPO coming, when you look at
01:00:18
how NASA has done less and so much more
01:00:21
is being contracted to Elon Musk or what
01:00:23
Palanteer is doing. I think I'm not
01:00:25
saying Elon Musk learned his lesson, but
01:00:27
Elon Musk is in a far better position
01:00:30
personally and professionally today on
01:00:33
par to be richer than anyone could have
01:00:36
ever fathomemed without getting 247
01:00:39
public scrutiny of the grand failure
01:00:41
that was Doge, right? Like we all said,
01:00:43
like Doge is going to he he's going to
01:00:45
try to employ Doge. he will get in his
01:00:48
rocket ship and leave which essentially
01:00:50
he's done and leave wreckage behind
01:00:52
which is what happened to so many of our
01:00:54
agencies and just just within our
01:00:56
federal government. So so Elon Musk has
01:00:59
left Doge and that's failure behind and
01:01:01
he keeps on trucking. I don't even think
01:01:03
he thinks about Doge. He takes those
01:01:05
headlines and puts him in a bird cage
01:01:06
for Liner. Yeah. All right. Next. Don,
01:01:08
>> you work for him. How's that case going?
01:01:12
>> I am not talking about that for sure.
01:01:15
where
01:01:18
>> what I will say you can say a lot of
01:01:19
things about Elon Musk but I don't think
01:01:21
he's a dummy right I think he's a smart
01:01:23
man I I believe that in this whole
01:01:26
political thing that he's learned the
01:01:28
limits of his power and by learning the
01:01:31
limits of his power he's learned where
01:01:32
his power actually is and I think it's
01:01:34
being quieter behind the scenes uh
01:01:37
making better and more innovative cars
01:01:39
and if he just and rockets or whatever
01:01:41
it is and if he sticks to that he could
01:01:43
have more influence than try and running
01:01:45
some, you know, department of government
01:01:47
efficiency, which never really worked,
01:01:49
which actually did not save any money.
01:01:51
So, um,
01:01:52
>> and tarnished him badly
01:01:53
>> and and tarn and he realized that, um,
01:01:56
if you're going to be in the business
01:01:57
where you're selling a product and
01:01:59
you're and you're someone who is as
01:02:00
highprofile as him and is the face of
01:02:02
the company, uh, then you have to have a
01:02:04
good reputation. You have to do good for
01:02:06
people rather than taking jobs. You
01:02:08
can't take people's jobs and say and
01:02:10
take their money and their livelihood
01:02:11
and they have a, you know, a smaller
01:02:12
wallet and say, "Now buy my car." It
01:02:15
doesn't really work that way.
01:02:16
>> Yeah. So, he's learned his lesson.
01:02:17
Brooke, finish up.
01:02:18
>> Yeah. I think and I think Don's
01:02:19
absolutely right. Um I I don't know if
01:02:21
he's learned his lesson in the sense
01:02:23
that he wants to do good, but the
01:02:24
celebrity aspect of where he wanted he
01:02:26
had the he was hosting SNL. He was in
01:02:29
every single place. He was on television
01:02:32
as almost as much as Trump. He was
01:02:34
speaking and jumping up and down the
01:02:36
cult of celebrity. he realized is not
01:02:39
where his power is. And so he's taken a
01:02:41
giant step back from that and is much
01:02:43
more subtle and much more sort of, you
01:02:46
know, whether somebody's guiding him,
01:02:48
which it really seems it might be
01:02:50
somebody he's got somebody in his ear or
01:02:52
he just came upon that himself where the
01:02:54
destruction and maybe he's gone to rehab
01:02:56
and the ketamine use is down. I who car
01:03:00
that's the perfect segue to credit Scott
01:03:03
Galloway. Scott Galloway has been saying
01:03:05
for years and years,
01:03:07
>> he sells the stock. He stops trusting
01:03:09
the company when the CEO is on the cover
01:03:11
of Vogue. When when they're in a fashion
01:03:13
photo shoot and they're surrounded by
01:03:15
puppies, that's when you sell the stock.
01:03:17
That's when you stop believing in the
01:03:18
company. Elon Musk had his celebrity
01:03:21
phase, then his celebrity, you know,
01:03:23
political kingmaker, and now he's
01:03:25
>> whether I'm saying realize or not, he's
01:03:27
saying he and he's saying, guess what? I
01:03:29
am much better off as the Wizard of Oz.
01:03:32
And that's what he is, the man behind
01:03:33
the curtain. Yeah.
01:03:34
>> But he did expose himself. He did expose
01:03:36
himself.
01:03:36
>> He did. He did. He showed his ass. Yeah.
01:03:38
How can we miss the theme won't go away
01:03:40
to Mars. Anyway, uh thank you so much
01:03:43
all of you. Let me just read this out.
01:03:44
We want to hear from you. Send us your
01:03:45
questions about business, tech, or
01:03:47
whatever's on your mind and what you
01:03:48
think of these fine co-hosts. Go to
01:03:50
nymag.com/pivot.
01:03:52
Submit a question for the show or call
01:03:53
85551 pivot. Okay, that's the show. You
01:03:57
guys actually were fantastic and
01:03:59
fantastic together and you outclass
01:04:01
Scott Galloway I have to say for our
01:04:03
first show of the year and I truly
01:04:05
appreciate it and so does Scott from
01:04:06
what wherever he is whatever he is doing
01:04:09
again please write in what you think he
01:04:10
is doing um you're probably right in
01:04:13
2026 my my personal hope is to have a
01:04:16
shred of the confidence that Caris
01:04:18
should shred
01:04:21
>> and the cameos
01:04:22
>> I love myself
01:04:23
>> yeah heated rivalry we're all going with
01:04:25
you baby
01:04:25
>> we're going okay All right, you're all
01:04:26
coming on the set and making a nuisance
01:04:28
of yourself. Now, be sure to check out
01:04:30
the Don Lemon Show. It's amazing. He got
01:04:32
to a million YouTube uh uh subscribers
01:04:35
is amazing. The 11th hour with Stephanie
01:04:38
Rule. It is the best. It's I watch it
01:04:40
every night and I send pictures to
01:04:42
Stephanie. It's the I have to say it's
01:04:44
the best hour of cable television. I
01:04:46
learn a lot. Um and of course, Pop
01:04:48
Culture Mondays. Brooke is always way
01:04:50
ahead of the the curve on lots and lots.
01:04:52
She was always like, I wrote about that
01:04:53
months ago. Anyway, thank you for
01:04:55
listening to Pivot and be sure to like
01:04:57
and subscribe to our YouTube channel.
01:04:58
We'll be back on Friday hopefully with
01:05:01
Scott Galloway. We'll see. I will read
01:05:03
us out. Today's show was produced by
01:05:06
Larara Neon, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor
01:05:08
Griffin. Ernie Andut engineered this
01:05:10
episode. Jim Mel edited the video.
01:05:13
Nishot Kerwa is Vox Media's executive
01:05:16
producer and podcast. Make sure to
01:05:17
follow Pivot on your favorite podcast
01:05:19
platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot
01:05:21
from New York Magazine and uh Vox Media.
01:05:24
You can subscribe to the magazine at
01:05:25
nymag.com/pod.
01:05:27
We'll be back later this week for
01:05:28
another breakdown of all things uh tech
01:05:31
and business. Thanks, Cara. Thank you.
01:05:33
And it's I'm coming to the cottage.
