RETURN TO CHANNEL

Search Captions & Ask AI

Trump Says U.S. Is “In Charge” of Venezuela — But What Happens Next? | Pivot

January 06, 2026 / 01:05:40

Video

00:00:00

I wonder if Donald Trump is watching

00:00:01

Heated Rivalry. Interesting.

00:00:09

Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York

00:00:11

Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast

00:00:13

Network. I'm Cara Swisser and welcome to

00:00:16

2026.

00:00:17

Scott is still away at uh undisclosed

00:00:21

location. I can't go into it, but

00:00:22

there's so much going on that I've

00:00:24

assembled a super group of smart folks

00:00:27

to help me cover it all. We've got Don

00:00:29

Lemon from the Don Lemon Show, Stephanie

00:00:32

Rule from MS Now's The 11th Hour, and

00:00:35

Brooke Hammerly, communication

00:00:36

specialist, podcaster, and culture guru

00:00:38

of Tine, the Pop Culture Monday's

00:00:40

newsletter. I want to talk about 2026

00:00:43

going forward. So, I put this team

00:00:44

together that could talk about anything.

00:00:47

Welcome everybody. We've got to dig into

00:00:49

a bunch of things and each everyone's

00:00:51

going to sort of focus on Stephanie with

00:00:53

business, Don politics, Brooke with

00:00:55

culture, but anybody could weigh in on

00:00:56

anything at all. So any thoughts would

00:00:59

be great. Um, so President Trump says

00:01:00

the US is in is quote in charge of

00:01:03

Venezuela following the capture of

00:01:05

Venezuelan President Nicholas Maduro and

00:01:07

his wife over the weekend. As we record,

00:01:09

the two are set to be arraigned in a

00:01:10

Manhattan federal court on drug

00:01:12

trafficking weapons charges. Trump is

00:01:14

also putting pressure on Venezuela's

00:01:15

acting leader, warning if she doesn't do

00:01:17

what's right, she's going to pay a very

00:01:19

big price. I don't know what that means.

00:01:20

He's not backing Venezuela's opposition

00:01:22

leader reportedly because he's annoyed

00:01:24

she won the Nobel Prize over him and

00:01:26

then didn't give it to him. Trump is now

00:01:29

threatening Colombia. Colombia saying

00:01:31

and saying Cuba looks like it's quote

00:01:34

ready to fall and talking about taking

00:01:35

Greenland again. I don't know what's in

00:01:37

his wedies. It seems to be part of his

00:01:39

Donroe doctrine as he's coined it after

00:01:42

the Monroe doctrine for those who know

00:01:43

history. Um it sounds just as idiotic as

00:01:47

it seems. Uh Don, let's start with you.

00:01:49

There's a lot to get to, but let's start

00:01:50

with the big picture. What is happening

00:01:52

over there at the White House? And what

00:01:53

do you make of all this? Obviously,

00:01:55

there's Epstein issues, uh, economy

00:01:57

issues, healthc care issues that he may

00:02:00

be trying to avoid, but thoughts?

00:02:02

>> Well, I think the obvious is that it's

00:02:04

chaos. I mean, it's chaotic for the

00:02:06

country. It's it's bad for the country.

00:02:08

Um, I think that I believe and I think

00:02:10

Cara, maybe you you have said this as

00:02:12

well and I agree with you if you did say

00:02:13

say it is that I I think that Donald

00:02:16

Trump has been surprised by how much

00:02:18

he's been able to get away with. And

00:02:20

every time he gets away with something,

00:02:22

it emboldens him to do something else.

00:02:24

Uh, to do something that's even worse. I

00:02:26

was listening to

00:02:28

um a podcast over the holidays and it

00:02:31

had quotes from Barack Obama uh in there

00:02:34

and everything he said about what was

00:02:35

going to happen in the second Donald

00:02:37

Trump administration really came true.

00:02:39

And he said, and I'm paraphrasing here,

00:02:41

he said, "We've seen this movie before

00:02:43

and we know the sequel is always worse."

00:02:45

And so the more Donald Trump gets away

00:02:48

with, if he is allowed to pardon people

00:02:49

and there's not enough uproar about it

00:02:51

and nothing happens and he's going to um

00:02:53

pick he's going to arrest people without

00:02:55

due process on the streets or detain

00:02:57

them uh even if they're American

00:02:58

citizens or he's going to invade

00:03:00

sovereign countries. Now I think

00:03:02

everyone on this panel and everyone can

00:03:04

agree that something needed to be done

00:03:05

about Maduro. He's a bad person, but

00:03:07

it's just the way that he did it. And um

00:03:11

look, how can a tyrant,

00:03:15

>> right,

00:03:16

>> arrest or detain another tyrant?

00:03:19

>> It doesn't make sense.

00:03:20

>> Rather easily, as it turns out,

00:03:21

>> rather easily. And just real quickly,

00:03:23

what he's doing though, I believe, is

00:03:24

setting a precedent because um from from

00:03:26

the from what he said is that Maduro was

00:03:29

this and that. He's a tyrant and he was

00:03:31

a criminal and he did all these things.

00:03:32

He um he tried to overturn an election

00:03:34

or he did he influenced an election,

00:03:35

which is the very same things that

00:03:37

Donald Trump tried to do. and he's also

00:03:39

a criminal. So,

00:03:40

>> which Gavin Newsome pointed out online.

00:03:42

>> So, why does Donald Trump get to get

00:03:44

away with it and Maduro doesn't? It

00:03:46

doesn't make sense.

00:03:48

>> So, make sense.

00:03:49

>> Make it make sense. Yeah. Make it make

00:03:51

sense to make US oil companies. They've

00:03:54

talked about that into Venezuela to

00:03:56

rebuild the industry and that happened

00:03:57

in I think 98. Um, as of this recording,

00:04:00

oil stocks are surging and the price of

00:04:02

oil is holding steady. Um, talk a little

00:04:04

bit about the business implications

00:04:06

because most people feel like it's about

00:04:08

oil, but I think it's about a whole lot

00:04:10

more than just that, obviously.

00:04:11

>> Well, what it's not about is drugs,

00:04:14

right? Donald Trump uh over a dozen

00:04:16

times this weekend said oil. Uh, we

00:04:20

heard Marco Rubio say this is about

00:04:22

freeing oil for the people. What people?

00:04:25

And to me, one of the biggest tells was

00:04:27

on Air Force One when Donald Trump was

00:04:29

asked, "Did you speak to American oil

00:04:32

businesses before?" And he said, "I

00:04:35

spoke to them before and I spoke to them

00:04:37

after." Okay? Congress was not notified,

00:04:42

but businesses were. That's how

00:04:44

autocracies run. That is not how a

00:04:46

democracy runs. And it's important to

00:04:48

remember that American oil companies

00:04:51

entered into risky deals to develop oil,

00:04:54

Venezuelan oil, years and years ago.

00:04:56

Those deals were cancelled by the

00:04:58

Venezuelan government.

00:05:00

>> Yes, correct. Before Maduro. What's

00:05:03

happening now? We are now making an

00:05:05

aggressive move that are going to we're

00:05:08

now going to spend an enormous amount of

00:05:10

money and human capital, sending

00:05:13

American troops down there for us for US

00:05:17

oil businesses, who by the way, it's

00:05:20

unclear if they actually asked the

00:05:22

president for this or not because yes,

00:05:24

they're all going to shuffle down there

00:05:25

and figure out how we going to make a

00:05:27

whole lot of money out of this. But

00:05:28

remember, it's not like Donald Trump

00:05:31

saying today, "We now control

00:05:33

Venezuela." They're not going to turn on

00:05:35

the spots and money is now going to pour

00:05:37

into this country. This will now cost

00:05:39

our government

00:05:41

billions of dollars, right, to to to now

00:05:44

go down there and to to secure it. And

00:05:47

now these companies are going to decide,

00:05:49

are they going to spend hundreds of

00:05:52

billions of dollars or at least a

00:05:53

hundred billion dollars in the next

00:05:55

decade because that's how long it's

00:05:56

going to take to then get this oil

00:05:59

business opportunity to come to

00:06:01

fruition. My question is who are the

00:06:03

American people? We know in the last 10

00:06:06

months all that Donald Trump has done to

00:06:09

please the tech community or all that

00:06:11

he's trying to do to please Wall Street.

00:06:12

And and I think this is a quick

00:06:14

important reminder when they say Wall

00:06:16

Street loves this. I spoke to a bank CEO

00:06:18

yesterday that said, "We were positioned

00:06:20

for this. We went long Venezuela. We

00:06:22

went long Pedesa, which is the

00:06:23

stateowned oil and gas company, a week

00:06:26

ago, and they were positioned because

00:06:28

the market's going." Investors can sell

00:06:30

everything tomorrow, right? Something

00:06:33

there's a there's a

00:06:36

a conflict. They can buy today, they can

00:06:38

sell tomorrow. They're out. What hurts

00:06:40

government and the American people? We

00:06:42

can't make giant long-term, you know, we

00:06:45

have to make giant long-term decisions

00:06:46

as a government. We don't operate like

00:06:49

day traders. And so when Wall Street

00:06:51

says this works for me today, it works

00:06:53

for them today until China tomorrow

00:06:55

says, "Oh, hold on. Are you ready for

00:06:57

what we're going to do with Taiwan?" If

00:06:59

this is Trump's strong man move, giddy

00:07:01

up. Look what we could do here. And so

00:07:03

that's where Wall Street, and I'll stop

00:07:05

talking now. That's where Wall Street is

00:07:06

sort of two minds. On one hand, they're

00:07:09

like, "Money's coming in. This is an

00:07:11

opportunity. Great, we're going to

00:07:12

unleash this. But on the other, now that

00:07:14

there's no rules in the jungle, right?

00:07:17

Now that we're in we're breaking

00:07:18

international law and and world norms,

00:07:21

what could happen around the world? And

00:07:22

that's what

00:07:23

>> the other thing is for now. For now, cuz

00:07:25

he's got a short amount of time here.

00:07:27

It's only a couple of months and then

00:07:28

they're stuck. Brooke, she was just

00:07:30

saying on social like all the things

00:07:31

that are going on, MAGA really reacted

00:07:34

in very different ways. Obviously

00:07:35

Marjorie Taylor Green was against it,

00:07:36

but a lot first. America first. But some

00:07:39

of them weren't. They were they were um

00:07:42

there was also a lot of there was a ton

00:07:44

of stuff going viral on Tik Tok such as

00:07:46

Madero's outfit. I mean let let's be

00:07:49

clear the cuz cuz the kids are driving

00:07:52

the culture the cultural conversation.

00:07:55

Maduro is now a fashion influencer. It's

00:07:58

unbelievable that picture of him on the

00:08:00

airplane in the it turns out to be a

00:08:02

Nike suit. It's a Nike tech suit and he

00:08:05

had what people were saying where it was

00:08:07

like an eye patch but it was clearly

00:08:09

goggles to cover his eyes. But there are

00:08:12

so many memes about his fashion. The

00:08:14

viral memes have gone crazy. They have

00:08:16

him as a fashion icon. I mean your

00:08:19

friend Baratundai posted a picture of

00:08:21

himself in the sweatsuit saying like I

00:08:24

already own this. It's

00:08:25

>> comeing becomes comedy. It's become kind

00:08:28

of serious and it couldn't be less

00:08:30

funny. Correct. the core of all of this,

00:08:32

right? We can't while we're criticizing

00:08:34

what the president did or the way he did

00:08:36

it, Maduro is a horrible, awful, awful

00:08:39

man, an oppressive leader. And so

00:08:42

Venezuelans and Venezuelan's Americans

00:08:44

are thrilled to see this man out of

00:08:46

power. But Cara, you're asking the most

00:08:48

important question with now what? But

00:08:49

the absurdity of him now being a fashion

00:08:51

icon is so absurd in every way.

00:08:55

>> But that shows you where our culture is

00:08:57

going. And I believe it shows you what

00:08:58

the the just the

00:09:01

>> the grossness that the MAGA folks have

00:09:03

just injected into society in the

00:09:06

culture. And it's also social media as

00:09:07

well.

00:09:08

>> It's social media. I mean I for me it's

00:09:10

not as much MAGA as it is the kids that

00:09:12

are turning you know they have they've

00:09:13

created like a DJ set with him and he's

00:09:16

now become this sort of you know Chay

00:09:19

Graa kind of person that the kids are

00:09:21

like you know he's somebody to now look

00:09:24

up to Don I think it's way more Tik Tok

00:09:27

nation than it is MAGA and this is going

00:09:30

to be so challenging for America first

00:09:32

MAGA like I'm thinking about my mother

00:09:34

Louise Rule who always argues like I'm

00:09:37

sorry Stephanie we can't thinking about

00:09:38

foreign policy. There's kids in West

00:09:40

Virginia who can't even go to a good

00:09:42

school. People who live in West Virginia

00:09:44

aren't think certainly or or around the

00:09:47

you know that original MAGA base who

00:09:50

says I'm a forgotten American

00:09:52

>> is not being remembered when it comes to

00:09:54

what we're doing.

00:09:55

>> Well, MAGA is morphing right now. Don't

00:09:56

don't forget that MAGA that Tik Tok is

00:09:59

becoming MAGA. Remember who's going to

00:10:01

take over the algorithm of Tik Tok?

00:10:03

That's going to be the Ellison. They are

00:10:05

MAGA. If you are on Tik T Yeah. Well,

00:10:07

they're going to have

00:10:07

>> well they Oracle will own 15%. Let me be

00:10:10

clear.

00:10:10

>> So, but but let me say if you are on

00:10:12

TikTok and if you if you are you've

00:10:14

noticed that your algorithm has changed

00:10:16

and if you are if there's more pro MAGA

00:10:18

stuff that gets elevated than stuff that

00:10:21

is anti-MAGA or that just tells the

00:10:23

truth about Donald Trump. So, Tik Tok I

00:10:26

believe from my experience with Tik Tok

00:10:28

that it is MAGA.

00:10:30

>> It is MAGA.

00:10:31

Last question for for for for you, Don,

00:10:34

and maybe Stephanie, you can add to it,

00:10:36

is what is um what does Congress do?

00:10:39

They come back this week, right, at some

00:10:41

point. Um what happens here? What do

00:10:43

they do? Because they've been rather

00:10:45

quiet about, you know, uh Rubio was all

00:10:48

over the all over the TV, all over the

00:10:51

place talking about, you know,

00:10:53

justifications which are different than

00:10:54

Donald Trump's just, but they were

00:10:56

talking it up, that's for sure. So, what

00:10:58

happens next? Well, I think Congress

00:11:01

will make a lot of noise and then do

00:11:02

nothing as they always do sadly. I mean,

00:11:04

they need to do more. They could start

00:11:06

some sort of procedure. They can just do

00:11:08

hearings. They can demand something. You

00:11:10

know, Chuck Schumer, you know, actually

00:11:12

said the fbomb. Well, that, you know, to

00:11:13

hear that coming out of Chuck Schumer's

00:11:15

mouth, but he should have been he should

00:11:16

have had that energy a long time ago. He

00:11:18

should have had this years ago before

00:11:21

Row was overturned. You know what I

00:11:23

mean? Before Donald Trump got elected

00:11:25

the second time, they should have had

00:11:26

the balls, as you said, to do something.

00:11:28

and they're not. So, I blame both the

00:11:30

Democrats and the Republicans. I mean,

00:11:32

obviously the Republicans are

00:11:33

>> What's next from your perspective?

00:11:35

>> I think the Republicans because if women

00:11:36

were in charge, we know how to

00:11:38

multitask, right? And when you think

00:11:40

about we know how to multitask and and

00:11:42

while Venezuela is hugely important,

00:11:44

it's going to occupy Congress. It's not

00:11:47

occupying the daily lives of the

00:11:48

American people. And the American people

00:11:50

are about to wrestle with soaring health

00:11:52

care costs, affordability problems, and

00:11:55

we've got I'm not I'm certainly not

00:11:57

going to say a labor crisis by any

00:11:59

means, but we've got a ten a tenuous

00:12:02

labor situation uh happening in this

00:12:04

country right now. So So lawmakers are

00:12:07

going to go back. They've got to deal

00:12:09

with Venezuela, the amount of effort and

00:12:11

time and money we're going to spend

00:12:12

there. And then the the issues facing

00:12:14

American people's daily lives, which are

00:12:16

the reason Donald Trump's poll numbers

00:12:18

were getting lower and lower in the

00:12:20

months leading into year's end. And step

00:12:23

finally, Brooke, what's the next viral

00:12:25

thing besides this ridiculous Maduro

00:12:27

outfit thing?

00:12:27

>> I mean, I think we're going to see more

00:12:30

of the ridiculousness. I think we're

00:12:31

going to see like the right now we're

00:12:34

seeing the fact that he's in the prison

00:12:36

that P. Diddy was in and Luigi. But then

00:12:38

here's the question, Cara. two weeks

00:12:40

from now in like truly two weeks from

00:12:43

now in Davos when every world leader and

00:12:46

business leader all gets together and

00:12:48

talks about how are we going to

00:12:49

collaborate and make the world better

00:12:51

and stronger together. What's going to

00:12:54

be the theme this year? Strong man who

00:12:56

done it. I I Yeah. Yeah. Well, what is

00:12:58

it? You're going

00:13:00

>> I am not.

00:13:00

>> I can't wait to see what Jeff Bezos

00:13:02

wears because that's what we all care

00:13:04

about with his

00:13:04

>> All right, moving on. Yeah,

00:13:06

>> I honestly think the people who attend

00:13:07

Davos are are sort of in on it, you

00:13:10

know, that they want the money. So,

00:13:11

yeah, I don't think there's going to be

00:13:12

a theme where, you know,

00:13:14

>> okay, that's a great point because but

00:13:16

but but okay, but here's the problem

00:13:18

then, Don. The idea of Davos is supposed

00:13:21

to be about thoughtful leadership. True.

00:13:24

And if where we are right now with our

00:13:26

business and political leaders is if you

00:13:28

can't beat them, join them. Let me get

00:13:30

in on the hustle. Then I guess that's my

00:13:32

question. Every year it's what is the

00:13:34

Davos man? Well, what the heck is he if

00:13:36

he's just somebody who's in on the

00:13:37

crypto hustle?

00:13:38

>> I think they're gonna sound a lot like

00:13:39

Donald Trump on Air Force One with

00:13:41

Lindsey Graham standing next to him

00:13:43

about to drop to his knees and, you

00:13:44

know, shine his shoes or whatever he's

00:13:46

going to do. They They said it out loud.

00:13:48

They said this is they said this is

00:13:50

about oil. They said Donald Trump said

00:13:52

this is about oil. And Lindsey Graham

00:13:54

said with all of the deals and all of

00:13:56

this happening, we're going to become

00:13:58

more prosperous with all of these new

00:14:00

that. So that's what it's about and

00:14:02

that's what Davos is going to be about.

00:14:03

That's it. Yeah. Is Davos relevant?

00:14:05

>> Okay. Then when are we going to talk

00:14:07

about debt and deficits? If we're going

00:14:08

to become more prosperous this way, it's

00:14:11

going to cost us an enormous amount of

00:14:13

money. So in Davos, where the biggest

00:14:16

investors and Bond daddies go, what do

00:14:18

they think about this kind of spending?

00:14:20

All right, let's go on a quick break. We

00:14:22

come back, we'll talk about what a

00:14:23

buzzy, lowbudget Canadian show means for

00:14:26

the future of entertainment. I know you

00:14:27

guys love this one. I'm back with Don

00:14:29

Lemon, Stephanie Rule, and Brook Hammer.

00:14:31

Now we're going to get into something a

00:14:32

little lighter. We have uh all the time

00:14:35

to take a lot uh we had a lot of time to

00:14:37

take in more TV shows and movies over

00:14:38

the holiday break. Um uh let's talk

00:14:41

about the breakout star of the past few

00:14:43

weeks, Heated Rivalry, which is your

00:14:44

favorite thing. Um also Tons apparently.

00:14:47

Uh Stephanie, you can weigh in too. Uh

00:14:49

explain very briefly a cultural impact

00:14:51

of the show and talk what it means from

00:14:53

a business perspective. This was a

00:14:55

lowbudget Canadian production, not

00:14:57

unlike K-pop Demon Hunter. Same thing,

00:15:00

Canadian. Stephanie said earlier what

00:15:02

was the occupying the minds of American

00:15:04

people. This is what's occupying the

00:15:06

minds of American people, which is

00:15:09

Heated Rivalry, a gay hockey drama

00:15:12

series coming out of Canada. A lot of

00:15:14

people think it's HBO because it's been

00:15:16

distributed by HBO, but it was made by

00:15:17

this country.

00:15:19

>> Yeah. In the US, it's it was made by

00:15:21

this streaming platform in Canada called

00:15:24

uh Crave. And it costs 3 to 5 million an

00:15:27

episode. Uh, compare that to Stranger

00:15:29

Things, which I think it was like 50

00:15:31

million finale episode. And what is what

00:15:35

is dominating the conversation right

00:15:37

now? It's heated rivalry in every

00:15:39

aspect. I mean, people are like, Don,

00:15:42

you've rewatched it, right? This is a

00:15:43

phenomenon. People are re-watching it.

00:15:45

People are not just watching

00:15:48

>> as the expert gay man on on the

00:15:52

But it's not just that's when you said

00:15:53

it was a gay story. It's actually a love

00:15:55

story.

00:15:56

>> It's a love story. It is a love story,

00:15:58

but people are calling it the gay hockey

00:15:59

show. But

00:16:00

>> but it is sex heavy. It is sexy.

00:16:02

>> But the most important episode of that,

00:16:04

episode five, had no sex. And what

00:16:07

you're seeing, I think it's a really

00:16:08

interesting thing. I mean, first of all,

00:16:09

do you know that according to Pornhub,

00:16:12

47%

00:16:14

of viewers of gay porn are straight

00:16:17

women.

00:16:18

>> So that's, you know, that's just the way

00:16:20

it is.

00:16:20

>> Straight women are talking about this

00:16:21

show. Straight women love this show. But

00:16:25

Brooke, let me let me let me I want to

00:16:27

challenge you on this. Is it sex heavy?

00:16:29

Or is it just people Is it just that

00:16:31

people are not used to seeing gay sex?

00:16:34

Right? Because I've seen I've seen

00:16:36

straight shows that have lots of sex,

00:16:38

more sex than this show, and no one says

00:16:40

it's sex heavy. It's just that they're

00:16:42

they're maybe not used to seeing gay men

00:16:44

being intimate on screen in that way.

00:16:46

>> I think Cara's favorite show, Hunting

00:16:48

Lives Walked, so so the these boys could

00:16:51

run. That was the that was the amused

00:16:54

bouch to this, right?

00:16:56

>> My experience in watching Hunting Wives

00:16:58

where I would leave like my family room

00:17:01

and watch it in a private area. I had

00:17:04

the same experience

00:17:06

>> because I had kids running around my

00:17:08

house. Yeah. You had mail.

00:17:10

>> I was watching the rivalry on the plane

00:17:12

last night and I was like,

00:17:14

>> "Oh my god." Okay, so wait, you know

00:17:16

what it is? Wait, you know what it is I

00:17:18

say sex heavy? Well, no. When there's

00:17:20

the presence

00:17:22

when you're aware that oral sex is

00:17:24

taking place and you have children in

00:17:27

your house like like that's sex heavy TV

00:17:30

for me that like we've established

00:17:32

regular missionary sex happens on TV and

00:17:35

both those shows feature a different

00:17:40

well talk about the two of them together

00:17:41

because you know he hunting wise is

00:17:44

coming back for a second season he

00:17:46

rivalry is

00:17:47

>> two more seasons so here's the thing I

00:17:49

think it's you have a bunch of unknowns

00:17:50

and we're also watching in particular. I

00:17:52

mean the there are three main guys which

00:17:54

are Connor Story who plays Ilia who

00:17:57

speaks if you watch Russian talk which

00:17:59

is Tik Tok with Russians. They lose

00:18:02

they're losing their minds over his

00:18:04

accent and his Russian when not just his

00:18:06

accent speaking English but his Russian.

00:18:08

This is a Texan born and raised who

00:18:10

started taking Russian lessons a week

00:18:12

before filming. It's phenomenal. You're

00:18:14

watching uh Connor's story become a star

00:18:17

and right before our eyes star is born.

00:18:19

We hope that fame doesn't corrupt him.

00:18:21

Hudson Williams who is plays uh Shane

00:18:24

Hollander is an unknown that is just

00:18:26

having an unbelievable moment. And then

00:18:28

the more the most known I loved him in

00:18:30

Shitz Creek was Francois Arnode who

00:18:33

plays Scott uh Hunter and he is the one

00:18:35

who had that pivotal pivotal episode

00:18:38

which is episode five which has zero

00:18:41

sex. So I think the they bring you in.

00:18:43

It's sexy

00:18:44

>> story. It's sexy and let let me

00:18:48

Brooke just brought up this idea of

00:18:49

unknowns and lower costs and stuff like

00:18:51

that. Talk a little bit about this from

00:18:53

a like because right now the costs of

00:18:55

Hollywood are massive and that sometimes

00:18:57

they pay off. Look, Avatar is killing it

00:18:59

at the box office, especially abroad.

00:19:02

Um, but there's a lot of these something

00:19:03

when I interviewed Ted Sarandos years

00:19:05

ago, he was like, there's no there's

00:19:07

only going to be the big ones and the

00:19:09

little ones and the middle is gone. But

00:19:12

that's why the beauty of this show

00:19:14

>> is the same stroke of beauty of

00:19:17

independent media, right? Before

00:19:19

independent media existed, when there

00:19:21

was just giant pillars, right? When

00:19:23

there was three television networks,

00:19:25

when there was three papers of note,

00:19:27

when there was three movie studios, you

00:19:29

had to work your way up and be part of

00:19:31

this giant conglomerate and marketing

00:19:33

machine. And that's the only way that

00:19:36

content could be distributed. Now, if

00:19:39

you make something magical, it can find

00:19:42

legs. It can find a home. And and that's

00:19:44

sort of the beauty of right we talk so

00:19:47

much about the the problems of social

00:19:49

media and all the you know the the bad

00:19:51

actors and so on and so forth but but

00:19:53

when you now have the system broken and

00:19:56

these unknowns can create something on a

00:19:59

small platform and then it gets

00:20:00

distributed to me like that's

00:20:02

extraordinary and that's something that

00:20:03

couldn't have happened decades ago back

00:20:06

when they were you know three studio

00:20:07

heads with their ar with their arms

00:20:09

folded running Hollywood

00:20:11

>> they were breaking what she said what

00:20:12

she said

00:20:14

what she said. Cara,

00:20:16

Cara, look, I want to say, remember when

00:20:18

we had this conversation, we talked

00:20:20

about, you know, some of the things you

00:20:21

see on independent media and independent

00:20:22

journalists and podcast. Um, you know,

00:20:25

it's it's done by a a a skeleton crew,

00:20:28

what you would call for broadcast, and

00:20:29

you walk into a big broadcast studio

00:20:31

office and you go, "What are all these

00:20:33

people doing here?"

00:20:34

>> And so, Stephanie is right. This is

00:20:36

where the media is going. There will be

00:20:38

big breakthroughs. There's going to be

00:20:39

the big guys and then I still consider

00:20:41

myself a little guy. there's going to be

00:20:43

a little guy like me. Um, but this is

00:20:46

where it's going and I think it's

00:20:48

actually fantastic because something

00:20:51

that's small can have lift as you say

00:20:54

and something that's big where it's

00:20:55

overthought like what Stephanie says

00:20:57

with these guys and people sitting

00:20:58

around going it's got to grow through

00:20:59

this or whatever that's not where we are

00:21:01

anymore. We're not there anymore. People

00:21:04

want it a little messy and authentic. I

00:21:06

think we're in a transition period and I

00:21:08

think there's space for both and I think

00:21:10

that's what's awesome about it.

00:21:11

>> What do you guys think? What I'm afraid

00:21:13

and so I'd love your thoughts is that

00:21:14

with the success and the popularity, I

00:21:16

mean it's become the cultural zeitgeist.

00:21:18

You have Steven Colbear talking about he

00:21:20

was a bossy bottom. You had Jeff Goldlum

00:21:22

asked last night on the red carpet at

00:21:24

the awards show whether or not he's want

00:21:27

>> you bring up a good point. This is going

00:21:28

to change society I believe like Will

00:21:30

and Grace did. I think

00:21:31

>> but what happens if it changes the show

00:21:33

where they're like oh now that we're so

00:21:34

popular we're gonna instead of three to

00:21:36

five million we're going to go to 20 to

00:21:38

30 million that I feel will change the

00:21:41

heartbeat of the show

00:21:42

>> got a short these all these shows now

00:21:44

have such a shorter life

00:21:46

>> if the budgets go triple right these

00:21:48

kids are now huge celebrities or

00:21:51

happened with Glee

00:21:52

>> or maybe the example that you're

00:21:53

pointing to is remember the first season

00:21:56

of nobody wants this okay nobody

00:21:59

expected it you loved every minute of

00:22:02

it. It was like what is this? It's

00:22:03

touching me. It's connecting me. And

00:22:05

then the second app which had which had

00:22:08

so much hype.

00:22:09

>> It was branding had so much branding and

00:22:12

product placement. All the people like

00:22:15

all the women like me who felt that show

00:22:17

who were connected to that show then

00:22:19

felt like you were being sold in Airbnb

00:22:22

experience. I felt it was awesome. And I

00:22:24

felt like uh I I I I felt like they had

00:22:27

this magic and it's still I'm not

00:22:29

knocking the show, but they lost their

00:22:31

magic of being this. We're just going to

00:22:33

make this that nobody wants this.

00:22:35

Literally the title, nobody wants this

00:22:37

and we're just going to make it and it

00:22:38

connected with everybody. And then when

00:22:40

season 2 came and they product placed

00:22:42

the hell out of it, there was a lot more

00:22:43

like I'm a difficulty of having you know

00:22:46

the long timelines especially with the

00:22:48

streamers like I'm thinking of Pluribus

00:22:50

another popular show.

00:22:51

>> Oh for God's sake. I listen I for a

00:22:53

mosquito just shutting

00:22:56

the show on me

00:22:58

I shall not won the what did it win the

00:23:02

awards last night

00:23:02

>> it doesn't matter like five people I

00:23:04

love the show but you cannot put it in

00:23:06

the same breath as heated rivalry I

00:23:08

shall not

00:23:10

>> but can I jump in here please not it is

00:23:13

>> can I jump in here and tell you I don't

00:23:15

think it's going to change because Jacob

00:23:17

Tyranny who you know Brooke is the he's

00:23:19

a Canadian creator of this it's adapt

00:23:21

they're They're adapting a book. They

00:23:23

have to stay somewhat true to the book.

00:23:25

A book written by a woman. And so, and

00:23:28

and I've been watching him cuz I'm

00:23:30

obsessed. My husband's like, "You're

00:23:31

obsessed with this." And so, I think

00:23:33

that Jacob Tyranny knows that it cannot

00:23:35

change. It's got to it's got to be

00:23:36

authentic and it's got to stay grounded.

00:23:39

But I here's what I just want to say

00:23:40

this one thing. You know how Will and

00:23:42

Grace changed the culture and made it

00:23:43

okay for, you know, gay people to kiss

00:23:46

uh on TV or just to have gay plot lines

00:23:48

on television. Uh, I believe that this

00:23:50

is doing the same thing to the culture

00:23:52

because as Brooke mentioned, straight

00:23:54

guys are talking about it. Hockey

00:23:56

podcast uh are are talk podcasters are

00:24:00

talking about it. People who do sports,

00:24:02

they're talking about it. Yeah. And so

00:24:04

Yeah. Empty netters podcast with a bunch

00:24:07

of white boys who are sports hockey

00:24:09

fanatics.

00:24:11

>> Last thing you would expect, they are

00:24:13

crying. They It's the biggest green flag

00:24:15

of men I've ever seen. I've never been a

00:24:17

people. Can I say one thing, Cara? Can I

00:24:19

Can I tell you a story?

00:24:20

>> Yes. Go ahead, please.

00:24:22

>> I I Okay, I'm going to tell you a story.

00:24:24

>> Going to get it in a second.

00:24:25

>> So, I don't have a sports background

00:24:26

whatsoever.

00:24:27

>> Yeah.

00:24:27

>> When I was a senior in college, I went

00:24:30

to Marty GR in New Orleans

00:24:32

>> and a boy took me to a dinner at then

00:24:35

senior in college's house, Payton

00:24:37

Manning. It was a big I at the time I

00:24:40

didn't even know who he was. He was

00:24:41

about to win the Heisman right after

00:24:42

Martyra ended. I'm sitting at a long

00:24:44

long long dinner table of all of these

00:24:47

miss football players. I know nothing

00:24:49

about Miss. I know nothing about college

00:24:50

football. But looking at a table of 45

00:24:54

boys, I say to the guy next to me, "What

00:24:57

is it like? What is the mix go with, you

00:24:59

know, like uh gay players on the team

00:25:00

and straight players on the team?"

00:25:04

Okay, this question came because I'm a

00:25:06

girl who doesn't know sports, but I know

00:25:08

math and probability and statistics

00:25:10

would tell you when dozens and dozens

00:25:13

and dozens and dozens of men are in a

00:25:15

group, there's some gay ones in there.

00:25:17

When I asked this question at this

00:25:19

dinner at Payton Manning's house in 19

00:25:21

or his parents house in 1997, my date

00:25:24

practically threw me in the bayou,

00:25:26

flipped the table out, right? For real.

00:25:29

For real. I mean, a guy hit the table

00:25:31

with both hands. What? Are you kidding

00:25:33

me? I mean, like it was I was on the

00:25:36

fast train back to Jersey and here we

00:25:38

are 30 years later and nobody's saying

00:25:42

you play hockey, you're gay. It's

00:25:44

probability and statistics. There's

00:25:46

going to be some gay guys on the team.

00:25:47

>> That's never an issue for women's

00:25:48

sports. Um, who's straight here is what

00:25:50

we say. But may I point something out,

00:25:52

Brooke? Erroneous as you think I am, who

00:25:55

among us has been invited to do a cameo

00:25:57

unheated rivalry.

00:26:00

Swiss on his camera.

00:26:01

>> No way. Cara, were you?

00:26:04

>> Yeah.

00:26:04

>> And are you doing

00:26:05

>> [ __ ]

00:26:06

>> You were a total [ __ ] I was, by

00:26:08

the way, a puck bunny when I was in high

00:26:09

school.

00:26:10

>> All the cameos, my friend.

00:26:11

>> I know. You're

00:26:12

>> What's a puck bunny?

00:26:15

>> Okay.

00:26:15

>> It's, you know, I grew

00:26:16

>> Is that like a lacrosstitute?

00:26:19

>> Is that like a groupy? Is that a

00:26:21

>> It's a groupy of hockey players. Yeah,

00:26:23

puck bunny. You were for the Rangers. I

00:26:25

grew up in Ry. That's where the Rangers

00:26:27

were. We were puck bunnies. And our

00:26:29

parents were like, "If you can get us

00:26:30

Ranger tickets, have fun."

00:26:32

>> Wow. [ __ ] you.

00:26:35

>> Brooke, can I ask you? Do you like um uh

00:26:38

Ilia and what's his name? I can never

00:26:41

remember. Which love story do you like

00:26:43

more? Do you like Ilia or do you do you

00:26:45

like Scott?

00:26:46

>> I was a Scott Hunter because that scene,

00:26:48

but I don't love Scott's boyfriend. I'm

00:26:50

just going to be honest. He's like a

00:26:51

short king. He's great, but he's not my

00:26:53

guy. But Ilia and and Shane, I'm

00:26:56

obsessed with. But Ilia, I mean I

00:26:59

Connor's story, there's this video of

00:27:01

him that he did with Interview magazine

00:27:03

where he's wearing a uh you know a

00:27:05

Gold's Gym T-shirt and he's lip syncing

00:27:07

to Madonna's Like a Prayer

00:27:09

>> and he does this all over and he Well,

00:27:12

no, that's a different one. But this is

00:27:14

one where he does this. Yeah, he's

00:27:16

Anyway, he's he's very I I can't explain

00:27:19

it, but this thing has gone so viral.

00:27:21

They're showing it in nightclubs. DJs

00:27:23

are interjecting the the video sports

00:27:27

bars. They're showing it. There there's

00:27:29

a very funny Tik Tok that's part of the

00:27:30

culture in newsletter this week that is

00:27:32

these two women that are saying like

00:27:34

dinner in a movie and their girlfriends

00:27:35

eating Chinese food out of with their

00:27:37

chopsticks on the floor watching this 30

00:27:39

secondond clip over and over again.

00:27:42

>> I wonder if tuna melts are going to make

00:27:44

a comeback because of this. Brooke,

00:27:46

>> I Okay, we're stopping now. Let me tell

00:27:48

you my favorite.

00:27:50

>> I wonder if Donald Trump is watching

00:27:51

Heated Rivalry.

00:27:52

>> You know that M I can just imagine the

00:27:55

conversation that like they Lindsey

00:27:57

Graham is watching it.

00:27:59

>> There's so many gays in MAGA and

00:28:01

Republicans. Of course they're watching

00:28:02

it.

00:28:03

>> Allegedly. All right, let's go on a

00:28:05

quick break and when we come back, I

00:28:08

want to know what you all think about

00:28:09

the biggest stories of 2026. Don,

00:28:11

Stephanie, Brooke, we're back. Moving

00:28:13

along. It's a new year. I want uh to

00:28:15

know what each of you think will be the

00:28:17

biggest stories of 2026. I want you to

00:28:18

spin it forward. Don, you'll start

00:28:21

politics or whatever. I don't whatever

00:28:23

you think, but let's politics would be

00:28:25

great, but whatever you think is the

00:28:26

biggest story going forward.

00:28:27

>> Well, I think the biggest story going

00:28:28

forward is going to be the fracturing of

00:28:30

MAGA. It's already started. The MAGA

00:28:32

media uh is starting with the Megan

00:28:34

Kelly's and the Candace Owens and the

00:28:36

Benny Johnson's world.

00:28:39

>> Yeah, they're beefing. And I think that

00:28:40

that is that is the beginning of the end

00:28:42

of MAGA. That's what I believe the

00:28:44

biggest story is going to be moving

00:28:45

forward.

00:28:46

>> Yeah. Okay. All right.

00:28:47

>> Okay. For me, you know, I'm going to

00:28:49

pick the economy because at the end of

00:28:51

the day, I think how people vote I is

00:28:54

truly rooted in their pocketbook and and

00:28:57

how they live. And what's interesting is

00:28:59

the economy is growing, but its growth

00:29:02

is fragile and it's really in the palm

00:29:04

of Trump's hands. like whether the

00:29:06

economy builds or weakens depends

00:29:09

entirely on Trump's deglobalization

00:29:13

agenda, right? Tariffs, mass

00:29:15

deportations. Um, so, so I just think

00:29:18

where we go in this K-shaped economy,

00:29:20

right, where the rich have gotten richer

00:29:22

and the poor have gotten poorer and we

00:29:24

have, and that's only getting

00:29:26

exaggerated this year. Where we're

00:29:28

headed um is is where I'm laser beam

00:29:31

focused.

00:29:31

>> Is it really growing or is it astroturf?

00:29:33

That's why cuz that K thing I'm like I

00:29:35

don't is that growth real because people

00:29:38

are a lot poorer and you need more

00:29:41

people being able to buy things than

00:29:43

fewer people being able to buy them. So

00:29:45

I don't know if that

00:29:46

>> yes but you could being it with

00:29:48

Venezuela could be there's ways to goose

00:29:51

it right to goose the economy.

00:29:53

>> The economy is certainly being gooseed.

00:29:55

We could have more federal intervention.

00:29:57

We could have more farm aid bills of the

00:29:59

like. But remember, when you're facing

00:30:02

less and less regulation in your

00:30:03

business, which is what we're facing

00:30:05

right now, you're going to see

00:30:06

businesses spend and grow. The thing

00:30:09

that's standing in the way is tariffs.

00:30:11

And Trump is fat, right fat in the

00:30:13

middle of it. But you're right. Is it

00:30:16

just astroturf? Because Cara talks about

00:30:18

this all the time. When you look under

00:30:20

the Magnificent Seven, under those big

00:30:22

giant tech companies that aren't getting

00:30:24

hurt, they're being held by AI, that

00:30:26

aren't getting hurt by mass

00:30:27

deportations. when you look under there,

00:30:29

lots of those companies are struggling

00:30:31

and if consumers um don't have the money

00:30:34

to spend or the money that they're

00:30:35

spending doesn't go so far. So that's my

00:30:38

point is it's a fragile economy and the

00:30:40

person who has his hands on the steering

00:30:42

wheel is Donald Trump and let's see what

00:30:44

he does.

00:30:45

>> So what do you what do you imagine being

00:30:46

the best case for him and the worst?

00:30:49

>> I actually think the best case for him

00:30:51

would be if the tariffs were to be ruled

00:30:54

uh illegal. That would be his most

00:30:56

graceful exit. He could say, "I wanted

00:30:59

to make America great. I wanted to bring

00:31:01

manufacturing back, but they wouldn't

00:31:03

let me." Companies would say, "Great,

00:31:05

we're not having to face these tariffs.

00:31:07

The happy days are here again." I don't

00:31:09

think that's going to happen or it's

00:31:11

going to be super messy. We'll soon find

00:31:13

out, right? Trump is the first to say

00:31:15

the market is the economy. It's not. The

00:31:18

market has done very well. It could do

00:31:20

even better. But under that, what is the

00:31:22

world going to look like with kids

00:31:23

coming out of college, can't get jobs,

00:31:25

when our health,

00:31:27

one of the things is we were looking for

00:31:29

pajamas yesterday for something? And one

00:31:32

of the things that's noticeable is

00:31:33

there's fewer items, harder to find and

00:31:36

more expensive. Even if you're, you

00:31:38

know, it was kind of not, it's

00:31:40

noticeable in every store now.

00:31:41

>> Was this online or in real life?

00:31:43

>> No, it was offline. It was offline.

00:31:44

>> But what's noticeable, Cara,

00:31:46

>> but that's how most people shop. What's

00:31:48

noticeable is the big have gotten bigger

00:31:51

and the small are getting smaller. Small

00:31:53

and mid-siz businesses could not survive

00:31:55

tariffs. If you're a giant company, you

00:31:57

could frontload your inventory. You can

00:31:59

keep cost down. If you're a small

00:32:01

business in Georgetown and you're

00:32:03

selling toys and books and pajamas, you

00:32:06

can't weather storms like this.

00:32:07

>> This was targeted.

00:32:08

>> Can I I just want to say this? I think

00:32:10

the best case scenario for him would to

00:32:11

be to completely fail with the economy

00:32:14

because Donald Trump does not like to

00:32:15

admit that he is wrong. And so if the

00:32:17

economy goes off of a cliff, that will

00:32:19

be the biggest wakeup call. It's like an

00:32:21

it's like an addict. You can't they have

00:32:23

to hit rock bottom before they make a

00:32:26

change. And I think Donald Trump the

00:32:28

economy has to hit rock bottom for

00:32:29

Donald Trump and Republicans to

00:32:31

understand that he's [ __ ] up the

00:32:32

economy.

00:32:33

>> But let me just make one final point and

00:32:35

then

00:32:36

>> we're talking about the economy for for

00:32:38

the United States of America. Donald

00:32:40

Trump is currently flanked by the most

00:32:44

powerful tech giants in the world. And

00:32:47

while we think, "Oh my gosh, look at

00:32:49

those tech guys kissing his ass. No way.

00:32:52

They have played him." A ma AI is going

00:32:54

to change every element of the way that

00:32:56

we live and we are now going into an AI

00:32:59

universe where there is absolutely no

00:33:01

regulation. The federal government is

00:33:03

even stopping state regulations. So

00:33:05

these this group of individuals, these

00:33:07

10 15 guys are becoming more powerful

00:33:10

and more successful than any people

00:33:12

we've seen in our lifetimes. And that to

00:33:15

me is the story to focus on the power

00:33:17

they have amassed. Like the whole like

00:33:19

let's eat the rich. Eat the rich is over

00:33:22

here. The mega rich that tiny sliver of

00:33:26

universe of people are so

00:33:28

extraordinarily powerful and have so

00:33:30

much control. I don't think so realize

00:33:33

richer than beyond belief.

00:33:35

>> Yes.

00:33:35

>> Correct. Correct. Absolutely. So,

00:33:37

Brooke, what do you think the biggest

00:33:38

cultural story of whatever you want?

00:33:40

>> God, there's so many. Um, but I the

00:33:43

thing that I'm thinking about as we were

00:33:45

talking about Hollywood and the business

00:33:47

of Hollywood, which is again not my

00:33:48

business, but as a voyer and as a

00:33:50

cultural sort of, you know, fan guru

00:33:53

>> guru. Uh, by the way, my newsletter

00:33:55

exists because of Stephanie and Cara,

00:33:57

because of you guys. But um I think it's

00:34:00

the marketing of these movies. For

00:34:02

example, I look at um at uh Timothy

00:34:05

Shalomé's movie Marty Supreme. This is

00:34:09

he is a very genius. It makes a lot of

00:34:12

sense why he and Kylie Jenner of the

00:34:14

Kardashian world are are paired up. They

00:34:16

have very similar mindsets of marketing,

00:34:18

how to market. This movie was marketed

00:34:20

in a way they have never seen before. If

00:34:23

you watch Tik Tok or whatnot, people a

00:34:26

lot of people were very unsure about the

00:34:28

movie. They saw it, they came out,

00:34:29

they're like, I don't know if I loved

00:34:30

it. I really don't know. But I went to

00:34:32

it. I went to it because of the

00:34:33

marketing. This was not done in a

00:34:35

traditional roll out like night the

00:34:38

night shows the late night. He did the

00:34:41

sphere. He did blimps. He got he did a

00:34:44

fashion drop and had all of these sports

00:34:46

icons wearing Marty Supreme swag. It's

00:34:49

really a whole thing. And when you're

00:34:51

seeing like, you know, there's a YouTube

00:34:53

show Allen's World, that is now I think

00:34:55

the New York Times just did a big story

00:34:56

on it. They nine like I don't know

00:34:59

billions and billions and billions of

00:35:00

views a month. And this is these are

00:35:02

shorts. This is the stuff that you know

00:35:04

the your friends Meg Whitman and what's

00:35:07

his name want to kill themselves over

00:35:08

because these shows are

00:35:09

>> Quibby

00:35:12

directionally correct.

00:35:13

>> Directionally correct. Just did have the

00:35:15

right stuff I guess. But the fact is I

00:35:18

think how like you're telling these

00:35:20

stories if whether it's big budget or

00:35:21

small budget the marketing the way

00:35:23

people are connecting to audiences they

00:35:26

are looking at this now and saying oh

00:35:27

it's not about screening

00:35:29

>> it's not doing that well for the price.

00:35:32

>> No but Cara imagine if the Leonardo

00:35:34

DiCaprio movie that came out last year

00:35:36

one battle after another this

00:35:38

extraordinary film. I'm not saying it

00:35:41

should have had the Timothy Shalamé uh

00:35:46

Kardashian their marketing plan, but had

00:35:49

they employed more creative renegade

00:35:52

marketing in a in a different way?

00:35:55

>> People now are like, "What's that Leo

00:35:57

movie? Where can I see it?" And it was

00:35:59

months ago. I think they missed th those

00:36:01

are old school and I'm not calling them

00:36:03

old but like old school Hollywood mega

00:36:06

celebrities where they probably had to

00:36:07

beg Leo to do any press at all cuz he's

00:36:11

Leo. Now you're looking back saying if

00:36:13

they would have employed some of these

00:36:15

like renegade kind of tactics, it may

00:36:17

have had a bigger impact.

00:36:18

>> Stephanie is right. You've got to have

00:36:20

uh either guerilla marketing. It's got

00:36:22

to be social media heavy. It's gota it's

00:36:25

not just you can't rely on the old

00:36:27

things of we'll put an ad here and we'll

00:36:29

do that doesn't work anymore doesn't

00:36:31

play

00:36:33

>> traditional media doesn't work in this

00:36:34

environment although sometimes it does

00:36:36

of course the Vanity Fair Susie Wilds

00:36:38

piece blew up

00:36:39

>> I'm talking about movies I'm talking

00:36:40

about getting to the guys of culture

00:36:42

>> right

00:36:43

>> listen everybody was ripping all over

00:36:44

Vanity Fair that they were like what a m

00:36:47

you know during the whole Olivia Ryan

00:36:49

thing blah blah blah we stopped talking

00:36:50

about that as soon as they nailed their

00:36:53

Susie Wild cover Those photos those

00:36:55

photos those photos were what was this

00:36:58

the

00:36:58

>> I refuse I refuse to insult those

00:37:00

photos. I take issue with everybody.

00:37:03

>> I love them.

00:37:04

>> I take huge issue with everyone going

00:37:06

after Caroline Levit and her lip

00:37:08

injections in in we can't in one hand

00:37:11

complain about decency and complain

00:37:13

about a president, you know, saying

00:37:15

things that are rude or mean and then go

00:37:17

after Caroline Levit for getting the

00:37:18

same lip injections that everybody else

00:37:20

in. I certainly don't look at it as

00:37:22

criticizing. I see it as just the genius

00:37:25

of the photographer telling a story.

00:37:27

>> No, no, no. The genius. Yes. The genius

00:37:29

of the photographer telling the story,

00:37:31

you can put in category A, but category

00:37:33

>> making fun of her. No,

00:37:34

>> making fun of what she looks like is

00:37:36

exactly what we're saying is wrong about

00:37:39

the president uh with his sophomoric

00:37:42

insults of people.

00:37:43

>> For me, it's more about them getting

00:37:44

played. They I mean if they're in the

00:37:46

White House and she's a communications

00:37:48

person, they should be smarter about

00:37:50

their communications.

00:37:50

>> As a communications person, I changed my

00:37:52

profile picture on Twitter of the

00:37:54

cesspool of what I when I use it to that

00:37:57

picture because it's like she's a

00:37:59

communications person. She should know

00:38:00

exactly what was ahead of her.

00:38:02

>> What was happening

00:38:04

going after a woman for Botox? Sister,

00:38:07

please. Who has

00:38:08

>> I think they all looked bad. I think the

00:38:09

only person who actually was on to it

00:38:11

was JD Vance. He's like, you're going to

00:38:12

make us look bad, aren't you? And I and

00:38:15

I was

00:38:15

>> well he did go to Yale University.

00:38:17

>> I know that's true. These matter of

00:38:18

fantasy, but one of the things that was

00:38:20

clear is I don't think they I think they

00:38:22

made the outside look like the inside

00:38:24

and the inside the outside look like the

00:38:25

inside. That's my feeling. It's just the

00:38:27

way they are. Um so, uh let me ask you

00:38:30

one last question. You talked about the

00:38:32

movies. What caused you to go to a movie

00:38:35

this if you did? I went to see song Blue

00:38:37

which I loved um with uh especially Kate

00:38:41

Hudson. I thought was really quite a

00:38:42

revelation. Um, in it is there. What

00:38:45

forced you into the theater? One very

00:38:47

quick answer because we got to move on

00:38:49

after that. Brooke,

00:38:50

>> I didn't go to the movies. This is the

00:38:51

first holiday season. I didn't First of

00:38:52

all, it's pouring rain in LA, but I just

00:38:54

rewatched Heated Rivalry and that Palm

00:38:57

Beach reality show that Netflix has

00:38:59

dropped, which is insane, called Members

00:39:01

Only, which is like the Mara Lago Real

00:39:04

Housewives. It is astonishingly.

00:39:06

>> Lots of lip injections. Okay. Lots of

00:39:08

lip injection. Stephanie, what about

00:39:09

you? Did you attend anything? Did

00:39:11

anything force you? did not go to the

00:39:12

movies, but I'm a bad I I I didn't go to

00:39:14

the movies even when people love going

00:39:16

to the movies. I either like to leave

00:39:18

the house dressed with high heels and

00:39:20

uncomfortable underwear or I like to

00:39:22

stay home. But like the movies to me

00:39:25

where it's like a little bit stinky in

00:39:26

there and I'm not that comfortable in

00:39:27

the chairs, that's a hard no.

00:39:29

>> Don, anything?

00:39:30

>> Same thing. I like to leave the house

00:39:31

with high heels and uncomfortable

00:39:32

underwear.

00:39:36

You know, I don't really I haven't made

00:39:38

an effort to go to the movies in years

00:39:40

because I I'm just I'm like Stephanie.

00:39:42

I'm just not that interested. Now, I go

00:39:44

to movie premieres. People invite me to

00:39:46

go to movie premieres. So, I'll go.

00:39:48

>> You know why, Don? Cuz you got to put

00:39:49

high heels and uncomfortable underwear

00:39:51

on. If you're going to leave the house,

00:39:52

you want to go out. See, this is why all

00:39:55

the noise about Netflix talking about

00:39:57

things. I think they're they're making

00:40:00

the correct argument, which is All

00:40:01

right, one more quick break. We'll be

00:40:03

back with one more question for each of

00:40:05

you. Everyone, we're back. Okay, I have

00:40:08

uh one last question for you and I I'm

00:40:10

acquiring a prediction. First up,

00:40:12

Stephanie, we talked we ended 2025 with

00:40:14

a lot of market talk about an AI bubble

00:40:17

and whether it would burst. if that's

00:40:19

what you want to talk about. What what

00:40:21

what do you what do you think your

00:40:23

prediction would be around AI?

00:40:25

>> I don't have a prediction of whether

00:40:28

it's going to burst, but all eyes are on

00:40:30

AI and certainly mine. The question is

00:40:32

like is it I is it truly the future and

00:40:35

is it going to convert every element of

00:40:37

how we're living? There are certainly

00:40:40

companies that have added AI to their

00:40:43

perspectus who are going to go bust,

00:40:46

right? Like there are elements uh of

00:40:48

the.com bust that like I remember I

00:40:51

worked in banking at the time and if

00:40:52

there was a.com next to the end of your

00:40:54

company's name, people were scrambling

00:40:57

uh uh uh to to to attend your IPO party.

00:41:00

There are companies that this isn't

00:41:02

going to work out for. However, the

00:41:04

masters of the universe in the AI space

00:41:07

and the companies that are smartly and

00:41:09

effectively uh adopting AI are going to

00:41:12

be the companies that soar into the

00:41:14

future. how that's going to transform

00:41:16

our workforce, I don't yet know. Um, so

00:41:19

I don't have a prediction of where AI is

00:41:21

going, but it's certainly our future.

00:41:22

>> Any other prediction you want to just

00:41:24

throw out there?

00:41:25

>> I would just say my prediction is while

00:41:27

people say that like the president's

00:41:28

spiraling or this and that, I don't

00:41:30

think he is. I think Donald Trump is

00:41:32

happier than ever, I think he's

00:41:33

certainly wealthier than ever. and he's

00:41:35

finally surrounded by the world's

00:41:38

richest, most powerful people who didn't

00:41:40

accept him for years and now they're

00:41:43

clinking champagne glasses and couldn't

00:41:45

be I

00:41:45

>> Melania is holding his hand again. I

00:41:47

mean, look at it.

00:41:48

>> Well, I I very much worry about the

00:41:51

future of our democracy. I worry about

00:41:52

the health of our economy. I worry about

00:41:54

the the health and safety of our country

00:41:56

and peace in the United States. That

00:41:58

particular president, while people say

00:42:00

he's a lame duck, and he is a lame duck,

00:42:02

if you think he's sad or frustrated or

00:42:04

unhappy, he's not. He was in in Trump

00:42:07

1.0 sitting in his bed in the White

00:42:09

House with his whole team saying, "No,

00:42:11

sir, you can't." Now he is surrounded by

00:42:13

yes, may I have another, and can I give

00:42:15

you an airplane and and a and some gold

00:42:18

bars? He likey. He likey. Okay, next up,

00:42:20

Don. Will the uh talk about that. Will

00:42:22

President Trump make it through the

00:42:23

year? Careful the answer. I made a

00:42:25

prediction. I'm with the Peruvian

00:42:27

shamans on this one, but um what uh what

00:42:30

uh what is your thoughts of what's

00:42:32

coming up in politics or anywhere and

00:42:33

also anything else you want to

00:42:35

>> I'm more in line with you. I'm not so

00:42:37

I'm not so sure that he's going to I'm

00:42:38

not like Stephanie. I'm not sure he's

00:42:40

he's going to make it till the end of

00:42:42

the year. Um because I think his health

00:42:45

is bad. I think they're not letting on,

00:42:46

you know, just how sick he is or or his

00:42:49

real health condition. Um and I think

00:42:52

that he is well, you think he's happy. I

00:42:55

think he's scared. I think he's afraid

00:42:56

of the Epstein files and what could

00:42:57

come. And a lot of this, including

00:42:59

Venezuela, has to do with distraction

00:43:01

from the Epstein files. And I believe

00:43:03

that's why the roll out has been so

00:43:04

chaotic because they they're trying to

00:43:06

throw people off the trail. They don't

00:43:08

want a road map. However, I do believe,

00:43:10

as I said earlier, that this is the

00:43:13

beginning of the end for the MAGA

00:43:14

movement as we know it. And I think that

00:43:16

Hakee Jeff could actually end up

00:43:18

becoming the majority leader before

00:43:20

2026. I think they're going to lose.

00:43:22

Republicans are going to lose 2026.

00:43:23

before the end of 2026.

00:43:24

>> Before the end of 2026, I think there

00:43:26

are going to be a lot of Marjorie Taylor

00:43:28

Green defectors or or enough that it

00:43:30

could change uh the balance of the

00:43:32

Congress. That's what I believe.

00:43:34

>> Balance of the Congress. Okay. Anything

00:43:35

else?

00:43:36

>> But doesn't that depend on where

00:43:37

Democrats fall?

00:43:39

>> Uh it does.

00:43:40

>> If Democrats scoop up that more center

00:43:43

space, they're there to take those

00:43:45

votes. But if they don't, then

00:43:48

>> I think if they scoop up the that center

00:43:50

space, I think that would be a mistake

00:43:52

because the movement in the party,

00:43:54

remember the people who elected Donald

00:43:55

Trump were the people who were motivated

00:43:57

to go to the polls and that were those

00:43:59

were kind of the extremes whether you

00:44:01

like that or not. I think the energy in

00:44:03

the Democratic party right now is on the

00:44:04

progressive side. It's not in the

00:44:06

center. Um the center is over for that.

00:44:09

People want

00:44:10

>> someone with balls. They want Jasmine

00:44:12

Crockett. They want AOC. And I know

00:44:14

people don't believe that, but when I'm

00:44:15

out there talking to the people, that's

00:44:17

who they want. They want Manny. They

00:44:19

love him. They love um Bernie. And I

00:44:22

don't hear

00:44:23

>> Chris Murphy has balls.

00:44:25

>> I think he does, but Chris Murphy does

00:44:27

not he does not have the riz that all of

00:44:29

those other folks have. He doesn't get

00:44:31

nearly the play. I mean I mean not I

00:44:33

don't want to be insulting. That's kind

00:44:35

of a cable news thing

00:44:36

>> for if you're out there talking to the

00:44:39

folks. They love Jasmine, AOC, Bernie,

00:44:44

and and and the like. They're not

00:44:46

talking that much about Chris Murphy.

00:44:47

They probably don't even know Chris

00:44:49

Murphy's name.

00:44:50

>> So, in that in that vein, Tim Walls is

00:44:52

abandoning his re-election campaign for

00:44:54

governor. It looks like it might be Amy

00:44:56

Clolobachar who is running and she would

00:44:58

be the first woman governor of

00:44:59

Minnesota. Um, what uh someone who is

00:45:02

very wellliked in Minnesota, by the way.

00:45:04

Um, what uh what is your prediction for

00:45:08

then a presidential candidate? What does

00:45:09

that look like?

00:45:11

>> Cuz that people will be talking after

00:45:12

November or before November before 2020.

00:45:15

>> The easy one is that it's going to be

00:45:17

Gavin Newsome. Whether he can win or

00:45:18

not, that's a whole another story. But I

00:45:20

think it's going to be Gavin Newsome. I

00:45:22

do think that um I think someone like an

00:45:25

AOC might run if she's too polarizing. I

00:45:27

don't know about that. But I think a a

00:45:30

strong ticket I believe would be um

00:45:35

Gavin and Marilyn Wes Moore

00:45:39

>> would be Wes Moore and Gavin Newsome.

00:45:40

That would be a really really strong

00:45:42

ticket.

00:45:42

>> Love him.

00:45:43

>> Yeah,

00:45:44

>> he's a handsome man.

00:45:45

>> He's a handsome man.

00:45:46

>> I just I hear everything Don is saying

00:45:48

and I think that Jasmine Crockett is

00:45:50

amazing and AOC are amazing and they're

00:45:52

exciting exciting women, but I also

00:45:54

think there are parts of this country

00:45:56

that aren't necessarily looking for

00:45:57

excitement. Look at this last election.

00:45:59

Manny had an extraordinary win in New

00:46:02

York and you saw Mikey Cheryl and

00:46:03

Abigail Spanberger win in New Jersey and

00:46:06

Virginia. And I think if you took those

00:46:09

three people and put them in I think

00:46:11

Mikey couldn't have won in New York and

00:46:12

he couldn't have won in New Jersey. So I

00:46:14

think that the key for Democrats is to

00:46:16

truly figure out for once how do you

00:46:19

become an actual big tent party? And I

00:46:22

don't know the answer.

00:46:22

>> Can I ask you a question? What does Mama

00:46:24

Rule want to do? Where is she going?

00:46:25

>> Oh, where is Mama Rule? Oh, Louise.

00:46:28

Louise, trust me, she loves.

00:46:29

>> My mom likes Marco, just so you know.

00:46:33

>> My mom certainly likes Marco Rubio.

00:46:35

She's very disappointed in what Donald

00:46:37

is doing. But Louise Rule at the end of

00:46:39

the day cares about the price of London

00:46:41

Royal. She cares about gas prices. She's

00:46:44

not focused on Maduro. And so she would

00:46:48

love, there's nothing Louise Rule would

00:46:50

love more than a George Bush Mitt Romney

00:46:52

renaissance. And sorry, Louise, that

00:46:55

Falcon Crest and Dynasty, your other

00:46:57

favorites, aren't coming back.

00:46:59

>> Stephanie, in a way though, I think

00:47:00

we're saying the same thing. I'm I don't

00:47:02

disagree with you about the big tent

00:47:04

that they have to figure that out. And

00:47:05

every candidate, Manny doesn't work in

00:47:07

Iowa. You know what I mean? It's it's

00:47:09

not going to work there. But I'm saying

00:47:10

the energy, like the loudest voices, the

00:47:12

people who are more motivated, I

00:47:14

believe, to go to the polls. But, you

00:47:16

know, look, there's a quiet there's

00:47:17

probably a quiet middle out there. Uh, I

00:47:19

don't disagree with you on that, but I

00:47:21

just think that that's, you know, that's

00:47:23

the folks that people

00:47:24

>> guess. But I'm just saying, Don, I just

00:47:26

don't know that like maybe I'm not

00:47:28

saying the country is getting sick of

00:47:30

what's like just cuz something is going

00:47:32

viral. Maybe going viral is what's

00:47:34

making us sick. And I'm not saying is

00:47:36

the answer, but I'm just saying we got

00:47:38

to find a way to be constructive.

00:47:40

>> Yeah. But I think it's constructive.

00:47:41

When I say that the the the the energy

00:47:43

is on the progressive side, the

00:47:44

progressives want universal healthcare.

00:47:46

That's not I don't believe that that's

00:47:48

conservative or liberal. I think that

00:47:49

that's a that's a right that every

00:47:51

American should have. The progressive

00:47:53

side wants a living wage for everyone.

00:47:55

And look, I'm not a Democrat or a

00:47:56

Republican. I'm an independent. But yes,

00:47:58

they do, but they they're not as

00:48:00

motivated about it. And it was an idea

00:48:02

that came from the progressive side.

00:48:04

Look at where affordability came from.

00:48:05

And now the Republicans are using

00:48:07

>> thing is the Democratic party is

00:48:08

changing. And there they're also

00:48:10

conservative versions of this in the

00:48:12

Democratic party are more Greg uh Cesar

00:48:15

um Kazar, excuse me. Um, there's all

00:48:18

kinds of people even. Um, just there's a

00:48:21

lot more congressional people. I'm going

00:48:23

to finish with Brooke. We're recording

00:48:24

the day after the Critics's Choice

00:48:25

Awards, speaking of picking and

00:48:27

choosing, which kicks off awards season.

00:48:29

Um, do they even matter, these awards,

00:48:32

ceremon do the award shows themselves

00:48:35

matter?

00:48:35

>> Yeah, I mean, there's obviously the

00:48:37

Golden Globes is coming up.

00:48:38

>> Yeah.

00:48:39

What's ahead?

00:48:40

>> I think yes and no. And very different

00:48:43

for different reasons. I mean, you just

00:48:44

had the news that the Oscars are moving

00:48:46

to YouTube in a couple years. That's a

00:48:48

big big deal.

00:48:49

>> I don't think it used to be like we all

00:48:51

would gather and watch like the Oscars.

00:48:53

We'd have an Oscar party and people

00:48:56

would do things like that. That doesn't

00:48:57

matter. I don't I think what matters is

00:49:00

the clips, right? So, we're watching

00:49:02

like like the Jeff Goldblum interview

00:49:03

yesterday about heated rivalry when he

00:49:05

was asked about the cottage has gone

00:49:07

viral. the Tik Tockers and Instagrammers

00:49:09

who are posting about uh fashion and

00:49:12

then you're hearing about movies at like

00:49:14

from the winds people care about.

00:49:15

They're like, "Oh, what is this one

00:49:16

battle after another?" So, it's not the

00:49:19

shows themselves. It's the it is the

00:49:20

viral moments. You had Timothy Shalomé

00:49:22

profess his love for Kylie. These things

00:49:24

are are which then goes into Marty

00:49:27

Supreme. So it that is the stuff that

00:49:29

that is relevant. But nobody's sitting

00:49:32

there like the majority of people aren't

00:49:33

sitting there and watching you know

00:49:34

people's speeches and all of the sort of

00:49:37

different nominees. They care about the

00:49:39

fashion. They care about the viral

00:49:40

moments and they care about those sort

00:49:41

of things that come after.

00:49:44

>> But Cara, the Olympics are in a few

00:49:46

weeks and I do think just like last

00:49:48

summer Olympics there, look at for for

00:49:51

example college football, professional

00:49:53

football, the viewership is off the

00:49:56

charts. And so I do think that there is

00:49:59

a thirst. People do want to come

00:50:01

together and watch things that are

00:50:03

joyful, that are exciting. And so while

00:50:05

they might not be sitting down and

00:50:06

saying I'm going to watch the Oscars,

00:50:08

things like the Olympics coming even

00:50:10

though Winter Olympics or live I mean we

00:50:14

we are all coming together for that.

00:50:16

It's just these awards specifically that

00:50:18

used to be these sort of like cultural

00:50:19

moments gone.

00:50:20

>> What what is your always way ahead of

00:50:22

trends? What's the trend we are not

00:50:24

paying attention to and one that should

00:50:26

be trash? I Oh, well the thing I mean I

00:50:29

I think we are starting to pay attention

00:50:30

to but this content like YouTube when

00:50:32

you're talking about billions of views a

00:50:34

month compared to like anything else and

00:50:37

what you're seeing how much money you're

00:50:38

being that is we have to see like and

00:50:40

the the the demographic for that are 7

00:50:42

to 14y old girls. It's your demon

00:50:44

hunters. It's that that is the market

00:50:47

right like forget about forget about Gen

00:50:49

Z. We're looking at alpha and whatnot.

00:50:51

So, I think that is where you're going

00:50:53

to start seeing a lot of stuff being

00:50:56

created and animation and all of that.

00:50:58

Music, music, music. And I think the

00:51:01

music aspect, whether it's live, whether

00:51:03

it's incorporated into TV shows, movies,

00:51:06

that's what we are really leaning into.

00:51:09

I I would love to put the Erica Kirk

00:51:11

memes to bed, like the Erica Kirk

00:51:13

morning tour. Like, she's still blowing

00:51:16

up. I don't want to see her anymore. I

00:51:18

don't want to

00:51:19

>> She's still blowing up.

00:51:19

>> She is still blowing up. People can't

00:51:21

get away. Hold on. He's blowing up a

00:51:24

He's blowing up a good making fun of

00:51:25

her. They're calling it the morning

00:51:27

tour. There's a whole meme going on like

00:51:28

I I mourned Subway's $5 like the loss of

00:51:33

$5 foot longer than she mourned the

00:51:36

death of her husband. And these just

00:51:37

keep going and it is in poor taste. And

00:51:40

they have remember like the guy who did

00:51:42

the um dance the Korean singer who like

00:51:44

gets shot up through the stage gangham

00:51:47

style. That's like they're they're

00:51:48

comparing her to that where she's coming

00:51:50

out on stage and then the whole story of

00:51:52

her and JD.

00:51:53

>> Don't you like it to go away?

00:51:54

>> I just But don't you think the like

00:51:56

you've got Turning Point USA raking in

00:51:59

the money and their devotees and then

00:52:01

you have people who are who are it's

00:52:03

it's a grift and then you have people

00:52:04

who are crushing her 24/7. But don't you

00:52:07

think there's an I maybe I'm naive. I

00:52:09

think there's an exhaustion of mean

00:52:12

where people are like can we move on

00:52:14

from that and just live my life forward.

00:52:16

It will go away. But it's This one has

00:52:18

had a Brooke right a longer shelf life

00:52:20

than most. Yeah. And by the way, I am so

00:52:23

I am surprised the Oscars are going to

00:52:25

YouTube. I did not know that. Do you

00:52:26

learn something new every day?

00:52:27

>> 29 29.

00:52:28

>> Oh my gosh.

00:52:30

>> Yeah. Wow.

00:52:31

>> It'll probably be better. Let me So,

00:52:33

Brooke, what is something we don't know?

00:52:34

That's the cresting.

00:52:36

>> Oh.

00:52:36

>> Slowly out in the ocean. It's a tiny

00:52:39

little ripple.

00:52:40

>> I uh I think we're going to start I

00:52:43

think heated rivalry. what we're seeing

00:52:45

is going to cause a whole new sort of um

00:52:49

moment for people to come forward and be

00:52:52

emboldened whether it's sex, whether

00:52:54

it's the things that we used to not be

00:52:56

able to talk about. You had that with

00:52:57

hunting wise you're seeing that and

00:52:59

that's coming in content that people are

00:53:01

creating.

00:53:01

>> Is there a heated ri I don't know. So

00:53:03

tell me Brooke is there a heated rivalry

00:53:06

conservative push back against it?

00:53:08

>> I I'm sure there is but I can talk I can

00:53:11

talk about that. I've seen I've seen

00:53:13

conservative um the log cabin Republican

00:53:16

type believe that it is conservative

00:53:18

coded because they are closeted. They're

00:53:21

not open about it. They are, you know,

00:53:24

they're not pushing it putting in

00:53:25

everybody's face except for that big

00:53:27

giant kiss. I I don't want to, you know,

00:53:29

ruin uh be a spoiler, but uh there the

00:53:32

conservative gays believe that it is gay

00:53:35

uh conservative coded.

00:53:36

>> There are people who believe, but I

00:53:38

don't mean conservative gays. If we're

00:53:39

talking about like the the the woke

00:53:42

pendulum swinging, right? So, if we're

00:53:44

talking about like here we were four

00:53:46

years ago and now we're you now you got

00:53:48

Andrew Tate coming over politicians

00:53:50

houses for dinner. Where does heated

00:53:52

rivalry like does that does that family

00:53:55

does that faux family values movement

00:53:57

are they mad about it?

00:53:58

>> Well, this is I don't think this is a

00:54:00

woke thing. This is a this is kind of a

00:54:02

middle This is kind of a normie kind of,

00:54:05

you know, show that has hit a that has

00:54:08

hit the zeitgeist in a way that's not

00:54:10

woke. And I do think that it's going to

00:54:11

have some penetration uh in middle

00:54:14

America like, you know, Will and Grace.

00:54:16

People may not like it initially, but

00:54:18

then it just kind of grows on you. You

00:54:20

used to,

00:54:20

>> but it is the antithesis of the Andrew

00:54:22

Tates. And that's what's so fascinating

00:54:24

to me. And there there are people that

00:54:26

are saying it's a scops whole thing that

00:54:29

was done to distract us from what's

00:54:31

going on with Trump. So there is a

00:54:33

growing group of people that believe

00:54:35

this is all a conspiracy. It's like look

00:54:37

over there. Look at gay sex over there.

00:54:40

>> But like Cara, you are you're paying

00:54:42

attention to the p like where the

00:54:43

pendulum. I think everybody I I thought

00:54:46

to me one of the great moments of 2025

00:54:48

and it paid a lot of attention was when

00:54:51

Golden performed at when the people from

00:54:53

K-pop Demon Hunters performed at Macy's

00:54:56

parade. Everybody loved it. It was run

00:54:59

by obvious I think a gay guy. You know,

00:55:01

the whole thing was very woke in a very

00:55:04

lovely way in a way that wasn't the

00:55:06

in-your-face woke. It was it's a very

00:55:09

subtle woke has learned how to how to be

00:55:12

woke now that everybody loves and I

00:55:14

think the evolution of woke it's like I

00:55:17

think heated rivals woke I think hunting

00:55:19

wives is real woke but it's a whole

00:55:21

different

00:55:22

>> but they're all MAGA in Hunting Waves

00:55:23

they're doing having lesbian but that's

00:55:27

the genius and the joke of hunting wives

00:55:29

>> that's right that's right and exactly

00:55:31

like guns MAGA lesbians it's like

00:55:34

they're [ __ ] has learned the way a

00:55:37

lot the way a lot of Cong Congress

00:55:40

people um uh Sarah McBride is a good

00:55:43

example very sly

00:55:45

lovely person she's she's you know

00:55:48

imperfect allies it's a different and so

00:55:51

Golden if you listen to that song it is

00:55:53

completely about being gay it's about

00:55:55

being like who you are but everybody

00:55:58

wants like I have the most gendercoded

00:56:03

son in Solomon he's such a dude he's

00:56:05

always showing his butt he's like I have

00:56:07

a penis, everything. He's so man.

00:56:09

>> But that doesn't mean he's toxic.

00:56:11

Correct. He's just a dude.

00:56:13

>> That's he's a dude. But I have to say I

00:56:14

said, "Do you like the Saja boys?" He

00:56:16

goes, "Oh, no. I like the girls." Like

00:56:18

there was He likes all the boys like the

00:56:21

girls. And that didn't happen with my

00:56:22

then my other sons immediately rejected

00:56:24

the girls. Now the girls are and to me

00:56:28

they are. So that when I saw people

00:56:30

respond to Golden, I was like, they have

00:56:33

no idea what they're listening to here.

00:56:35

And it's I think there's a new version

00:56:36

of woke that is going to infect the

00:56:39

whole country of

00:56:40

>> Don't you think that version has woke

00:56:42

but that's it? that version of woke,

00:56:44

those young males who who who briefly

00:56:47

got swayed into the Trump averse and

00:56:50

then said, "Hold on a second. You're

00:56:52

saying I'm not against this." They were

00:56:55

just tired, right? The profile of of my

00:56:57

oldest son is a dude. He's not a toxic

00:57:00

male, right?

00:57:01

>> And and and so when he was

00:57:03

>> when he was had his finger waved in his

00:57:05

face and yelled at, you saw those boys

00:57:07

sway. And then moments after the

00:57:09

election, they were like, "No, no, no,

00:57:11

no, no, no." And like I'm not going

00:57:13

there. So he's doing it. Exactly.

00:57:16

>> I haven't seen Hunting Wives, but I'm

00:57:19

like just in my personal life, I would

00:57:21

not be surprised to see um conservatives

00:57:24

or MAGA people doing cocaine or lesbians

00:57:28

or shooting because those are the people

00:57:30

who are doing it. In my life as a gay

00:57:33

man, my woke gay friends are the most

00:57:37

boring with kids people I know and not

00:57:40

out doing sexing and you know sexing it

00:57:43

up. But the conservatives I know, some

00:57:45

of them who are closeted, they're the

00:57:47

ones who are out partying every night,

00:57:49

who are doing the drugs, who are having

00:57:50

the case, right?

00:57:52

>> Right. And so I that would not be a

00:57:54

shock to me. So I think it's just like

00:57:56

letting people know what's

00:57:57

>> happening. Hunting wives, right? when

00:57:58

you were like, "Oh my gosh, this is a

00:58:00

full MAGA bonanza." Then the next

00:58:02

episode, you know, the ones

00:58:04

>> they have Exactly. That was Dynasty P.

00:58:07

Like, by the way, when I was a young gay

00:58:08

person in Washington DC, I would say say

00:58:11

someone rhymes with Ginsey Dam was in

00:58:13

the big gay bars. I saw that there. So I

00:58:16

just like this was this was

00:58:18

>> but I do think that the thing the trend

00:58:20

that we're seeing like you say the the

00:58:22

vans the Joe Rogan's people are

00:58:23

realizing it's not just their I don't

00:58:25

think it's because they have become

00:58:27

morally awake like Marjorie Taylor Green

00:58:29

I don't think I think they see that

00:58:30

there's more money to be made in the

00:58:32

middle there's more money to go in and

00:58:34

say actually this

00:58:36

>> leave people alone.

00:58:37

>> Yeah. Yeah.

00:58:38

>> I do think that there is a this is not

00:58:39

what I voted for aspect to it. I I

00:58:41

believe them when they say that even

00:58:42

though it is what they voted for, maybe

00:58:44

they didn't think that they would be

00:58:46

rounding people up off of the streets

00:58:47

like they can prediction. I really do

00:58:51

think my prediction and it touches this.

00:58:53

I think this year

00:58:55

>> honestly love and kindness will reign

00:58:57

supreme.

00:58:58

>> People are so exhaust and I hear you Don

00:59:01

and the hate so many people even look

00:59:05

even look right. I have every incentive

00:59:07

to not want to believe Marjorie Taylor

00:59:09

Green. And when I watch her on the View

00:59:10

just talking like a reasonable broad,

00:59:13

I'm like, God, I feel you. And I don't

00:59:15

know if I feel her beyond that episode,

00:59:17

but I do think this is the year people

00:59:19

wake up and realize, let's give one

00:59:21

another a break. Life, but your words

00:59:24

have to m your actions have to match

00:59:26

your words. So, I'll give it time. I

00:59:28

don't necessarily believe it right now.

00:59:30

>> Yeah. All right. Let me ask the final

00:59:31

question though because the story of the

00:59:32

beginning of 2025 was Elon Musk at the

00:59:35

beginning, right, of him taking up Doge

00:59:37

>> Space Karen. [ __ ] him.

00:59:38

>> Space Karen. Um, what did what does I

00:59:41

want to know because he was the story of

00:59:43

20. We've forgotten since it seems so

00:59:44

long ago, but there was a whole cycle of

00:59:46

him on top and then on bottom. Now he's

00:59:48

back with Trump. He's back with Trump.

00:59:50

>> We just had dinner. He posted a video, a

00:59:52

picture.

00:59:52

>> What is his future for? This is a tech

00:59:55

show. What is he was the most prominent

00:59:56

tech figure in 2025. what happens to him

00:59:59

in 2026. I I want first Stephanie and

01:00:02

then Don and then Brooke from a culture

01:00:04

point of view. Stephanie,

01:00:05

>> listen. Doge didn't work in every way.

01:00:08

But guess what? He is more powerful than

01:00:11

ever. How when you look at SpaceX, when

01:00:14

you look at the amount of contracts, the

01:00:16

possible IPO coming, when you look at

01:00:18

how NASA has done less and so much more

01:00:21

is being contracted to Elon Musk or what

01:00:23

Palanteer is doing. I think I'm not

01:00:25

saying Elon Musk learned his lesson, but

01:00:27

Elon Musk is in a far better position

01:00:30

personally and professionally today on

01:00:33

par to be richer than anyone could have

01:00:36

ever fathomemed without getting 247

01:00:39

public scrutiny of the grand failure

01:00:41

that was Doge, right? Like we all said,

01:00:43

like Doge is going to he he's going to

01:00:45

try to employ Doge. he will get in his

01:00:48

rocket ship and leave which essentially

01:00:50

he's done and leave wreckage behind

01:00:52

which is what happened to so many of our

01:00:54

agencies and just just within our

01:00:56

federal government. So so Elon Musk has

01:00:59

left Doge and that's failure behind and

01:01:01

he keeps on trucking. I don't even think

01:01:03

he thinks about Doge. He takes those

01:01:05

headlines and puts him in a bird cage

01:01:06

for Liner. Yeah. All right. Next. Don,

01:01:08

>> you work for him. How's that case going?

01:01:12

>> I am not talking about that for sure.

01:01:15

where

01:01:18

>> what I will say you can say a lot of

01:01:19

things about Elon Musk but I don't think

01:01:21

he's a dummy right I think he's a smart

01:01:23

man I I believe that in this whole

01:01:26

political thing that he's learned the

01:01:28

limits of his power and by learning the

01:01:31

limits of his power he's learned where

01:01:32

his power actually is and I think it's

01:01:34

being quieter behind the scenes uh

01:01:37

making better and more innovative cars

01:01:39

and if he just and rockets or whatever

01:01:41

it is and if he sticks to that he could

01:01:43

have more influence than try and running

01:01:45

some, you know, department of government

01:01:47

efficiency, which never really worked,

01:01:49

which actually did not save any money.

01:01:51

So, um,

01:01:52

>> and tarnished him badly

01:01:53

>> and and tarn and he realized that, um,

01:01:56

if you're going to be in the business

01:01:57

where you're selling a product and

01:01:59

you're and you're someone who is as

01:02:00

highprofile as him and is the face of

01:02:02

the company, uh, then you have to have a

01:02:04

good reputation. You have to do good for

01:02:06

people rather than taking jobs. You

01:02:08

can't take people's jobs and say and

01:02:10

take their money and their livelihood

01:02:11

and they have a, you know, a smaller

01:02:12

wallet and say, "Now buy my car." It

01:02:15

doesn't really work that way.

01:02:16

>> Yeah. So, he's learned his lesson.

01:02:17

Brooke, finish up.

01:02:18

>> Yeah. I think and I think Don's

01:02:19

absolutely right. Um I I don't know if

01:02:21

he's learned his lesson in the sense

01:02:23

that he wants to do good, but the

01:02:24

celebrity aspect of where he wanted he

01:02:26

had the he was hosting SNL. He was in

01:02:29

every single place. He was on television

01:02:32

as almost as much as Trump. He was

01:02:34

speaking and jumping up and down the

01:02:36

cult of celebrity. he realized is not

01:02:39

where his power is. And so he's taken a

01:02:41

giant step back from that and is much

01:02:43

more subtle and much more sort of, you

01:02:46

know, whether somebody's guiding him,

01:02:48

which it really seems it might be

01:02:50

somebody he's got somebody in his ear or

01:02:52

he just came upon that himself where the

01:02:54

destruction and maybe he's gone to rehab

01:02:56

and the ketamine use is down. I who car

01:03:00

that's the perfect segue to credit Scott

01:03:03

Galloway. Scott Galloway has been saying

01:03:05

for years and years,

01:03:07

>> he sells the stock. He stops trusting

01:03:09

the company when the CEO is on the cover

01:03:11

of Vogue. When when they're in a fashion

01:03:13

photo shoot and they're surrounded by

01:03:15

puppies, that's when you sell the stock.

01:03:17

That's when you stop believing in the

01:03:18

company. Elon Musk had his celebrity

01:03:21

phase, then his celebrity, you know,

01:03:23

political kingmaker, and now he's

01:03:25

>> whether I'm saying realize or not, he's

01:03:27

saying he and he's saying, guess what? I

01:03:29

am much better off as the Wizard of Oz.

01:03:32

And that's what he is, the man behind

01:03:33

the curtain. Yeah.

01:03:34

>> But he did expose himself. He did expose

01:03:36

himself.

01:03:36

>> He did. He did. He showed his ass. Yeah.

01:03:38

How can we miss the theme won't go away

01:03:40

to Mars. Anyway, uh thank you so much

01:03:43

all of you. Let me just read this out.

01:03:44

We want to hear from you. Send us your

01:03:45

questions about business, tech, or

01:03:47

whatever's on your mind and what you

01:03:48

think of these fine co-hosts. Go to

01:03:50

nymag.com/pivot.

01:03:52

Submit a question for the show or call

01:03:53

85551 pivot. Okay, that's the show. You

01:03:57

guys actually were fantastic and

01:03:59

fantastic together and you outclass

01:04:01

Scott Galloway I have to say for our

01:04:03

first show of the year and I truly

01:04:05

appreciate it and so does Scott from

01:04:06

what wherever he is whatever he is doing

01:04:09

again please write in what you think he

01:04:10

is doing um you're probably right in

01:04:13

2026 my my personal hope is to have a

01:04:16

shred of the confidence that Caris

01:04:18

should shred

01:04:21

>> and the cameos

01:04:22

>> I love myself

01:04:23

>> yeah heated rivalry we're all going with

01:04:25

you baby

01:04:25

>> we're going okay All right, you're all

01:04:26

coming on the set and making a nuisance

01:04:28

of yourself. Now, be sure to check out

01:04:30

the Don Lemon Show. It's amazing. He got

01:04:32

to a million YouTube uh uh subscribers

01:04:35

is amazing. The 11th hour with Stephanie

01:04:38

Rule. It is the best. It's I watch it

01:04:40

every night and I send pictures to

01:04:42

Stephanie. It's the I have to say it's

01:04:44

the best hour of cable television. I

01:04:46

learn a lot. Um and of course, Pop

01:04:48

Culture Mondays. Brooke is always way

01:04:50

ahead of the the curve on lots and lots.

01:04:52

She was always like, I wrote about that

01:04:53

months ago. Anyway, thank you for

01:04:55

listening to Pivot and be sure to like

01:04:57

and subscribe to our YouTube channel.

01:04:58

We'll be back on Friday hopefully with

01:05:01

Scott Galloway. We'll see. I will read

01:05:03

us out. Today's show was produced by

01:05:06

Larara Neon, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor

01:05:08

Griffin. Ernie Andut engineered this

01:05:10

episode. Jim Mel edited the video.

01:05:13

Nishot Kerwa is Vox Media's executive

01:05:16

producer and podcast. Make sure to

01:05:17

follow Pivot on your favorite podcast

01:05:19

platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot

01:05:21

from New York Magazine and uh Vox Media.

01:05:24

You can subscribe to the magazine at

01:05:25

nymag.com/pod.

01:05:27

We'll be back later this week for

01:05:28

another breakdown of all things uh tech

01:05:31

and business. Thanks, Cara. Thank you.

01:05:33

And it's I'm coming to the cottage.

Words per Minute Over Time